April 13, 2021 School Board Retreat

001Moving right along, we can now move into our retreat. So I'm turning things over to Miss Lori Cromwell. Well, good to see everybody. I'm so glad that we're all together. One thing that it's somebody asked me to do that I think would be really appropriate is that just to remind everybody why we have these retreats and what the purpose of them and the structure of them. It's typically a little more informal opportunity for the board to talk about specific initiatives or ways that we can actually work together better. Because as you know, we were all elected individually. We didn't ask for this team. We were given this team. And it really does take teamwork to make decisions. My job is to work with the board, specifically in that teamwork arena. to try and work through

002any issues or ways that we can be better. It doesn't mean because we're doing team building exercises that we are not a good group or not a good team. We can always be better. So tonight we're going to talk about three specific areas. One is the board assessment. We did one in January 2020. And then we did one in January 2021. The reason that there was really no movement or discussion between 2020 and 2021 was obviously because of COVID. So when we met in January, we reviewed and compared the results between 2020 and 2021. And we identified two areas. One is the community and communications piece, community engagement and communications. And then the second area. has to do with just our values and the way that we operate and as a team and as a

003division. So those two areas we will continue to explore. I will be sending out a request for additional indicators that we would put on our assessment for the next time that we do it. So I would like us to take just a moment and talk about that specific area of our School Board assessment as soon as I go through a little bit more about what we're going to do tonight. The second thing that we're going to do is talk a little bit about just the structure of the board. We are all nine elected every three years to these positions, and that may not be the best structure or maybe it is. And so we as a board have been having some very high level discussions about this for years. And so we want to have

004a little bit more discussion. about that as well. We're not going to go deep into that, but we do want to get some feedback. But at some point, probably in our next retreat, we may even want to consider a SWOT analysis. And a SWOT analysis is basically just trying to find out what is the strength of the structure that we have now. What are some of the weaknesses that are provided? What are some opportunities that we might have available to us if we were to change that structure? And threats, what kind of threats would happen if we were to change that structure? And then the final piece that we're going to talk about tonight is just the board superintendent communication. This is one thing that we do on a regular basis. Talk about how we

005can be better communicators with each other. Talk about certain things that. maybe impeding us from being the best team that we can. So we're going to really focus on those three areas as well. We've been getting a lot of community and public attention about not only opening our schools, but just in general how we operate. There's a lot of input that's being given to the board right now. I know you guys are inundated with... emails and people reaching out. So if we need to just decompress about what that looks like, because you're not the only school board that's feeling a lot of pressure, it's totally normal. And I think sometimes most people in the community don't really know or understand the role that you're in and the pressure that you're in. So I want to

006take some time also to be able just to talk about that and the pressures that you might have. So we'll strive to hit that 10 o'clock mark. We might go a little bit over because of the special meeting, but, you know, we'll try and stay if we can within that 10 o'clock timeframe, because I know you guys have all had a really long day. And then this comes on the end of the day. So try and put your fresh head on and your fresh eyes. And let's try and figure out just kind of how we're going to make this retreat happen for us. It's not a very structured environment. It is recorded. So we're going to have that available for anybody that wants to be able to look at it. We are a transparent group.

007We want people to know what we're doing and what we're talking about. So it's very important to this board. I know I've talked to each one of you individually, and we've discussed it many times collectively. So let's just dive right in. and talk a little bit about that assessment piece and any thoughts that you might have. I asked for some feedback. I didn't get a whole lot of feedback from you guys, but I think when last January we were meeting about that assessment, we had a lot of balls in the air, obviously. So any thoughts, comments? Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on when would you like to do that assessment again as this board? I think it might be helpful just to have a little bit of a snapshot into those two

008areas before we see the next election take place and new people perhaps in these seats. We don't know what that looks like. So it might be good for this board to talk about that timing on when would you like to do it again and see if we've actually made improvement in those two areas. Sounds good. All right. The communications piece was one. And then the second piece was the values. And, you know, just high level thoughts. I will send you out because we're not going to come to any conclusions tonight, but I'll send you those two areas if you haven't looked at it lately of those survey questions. I have a question. Did we, I don't remember setting goals for those areas. Did I, did we do that? And I think that would be desirable

009in the future. That is the, that is the whole, you know. That's where we're headed, hopefully, that we get some, you guys take a look at those assessment questions that we had before. See if there's anything missing that is going to be an indicator for us to look at for our next time that we do the assessment. But I would propose that we just focus on those two areas for now, since those are the two areas that we're really trying to hone in on and not get clouded with a lot of the other. So they're equally as important, but these two kind of rose to the top last time we talked about our priorities. Sorry about that. So yeah, those two areas. So what I'll be doing is sending out the survey questions that we

010did before and then the comparison between 20 and 21 specifically to those two areas. Dr. Hutchings did send me something. So thank you, Greg, concerning some of those indicators that you wanted to see on the next assessment. You probably forgot you even did it, but you did it way back in January. So at the next retreat, we will actually take your input. So I'm serious. I want you guys to have some input in those areas. And we will create some goals and indicators at our next retreat for that, for those two areas. Thoughts on when we want to do it, launch it again? I'm thinking at the end of the year. I don't know. The end of the school year. Because, you know, we're also going to start. getting into this 360 feedback cycle. And

011so that could be some like, even more sort of good data to compare, like, how is our, how is everybody around us feeling, right? Our staff, our families, our principals, our teachers, central office, and then compared to like, how we're seeing ourselves. So I think the end of the year would be a good time. I think that'd be good too. We're probably going to need to figure out. Yeah. We're probably going to need to figure out when we want to get, um, get the, uh, and I'll get you just a second, Remy. We probably want to figure out like when would be a good time for us to have our next retreat to set those goal areas. So I can work with Susan on that, but I think the sooner we do that, the better,

012but we'll, we'll circle back hopefully after we've had this retreat, just to see what bubbles to the prioritized areas based on our conversation tonight. But I would love to see you guys come up with some of those goal areas and those two sections, and then be able to, you know, see if you meet those indicators towards the end of the year. Remy, what are your thoughts? I agree that, you know, just. because of the time, you know, I think it's a good moment for reflection. I also just think logistically, if we're thinking about the remainder of the calendar year, that's probably our best moment, you know, because heading into fall, there's going to be all of the back to school stuff. In addition to that, members that are running for election are going to be,

013you know, involved in that as well. So I think if we're focusing on an assessment of this team. this current team, it's probably better to do it, you know, I think end of this current academic year. Any other thoughts? Okay. Yeah, I think you're right. Because I mean, if we have new people coming on, perhaps in January, you know, you guys remember those that were elected last cycle that you're like, I'm doing what exactly now? What are we trying to accomplish with this assessment? You know, that kind of thing. So now that you know what it's all about, and now that you understand exactly what the tool can be used for. we want to be able to use that, right? We want to be able to use it to the best of our ability. And

014that way we can, you know, I know that lots of times there's interest in the fall when there is that sort of transition period of focusing on transition stuff rather than, you know, current board assessment stuff. So that way we can still actually get this done, but still leave time for those kinds of moments. Right. I don't think it's going to be difficult. It's just making sure that life continues to happen and, you know, it delays us and we just need to kind of make sure that we stay focused on doing that. And I'll work with Susan, you know, to get some of that timeline, proposed timeline. Any other thoughts before we move on to the school board structure? Okay. So I want to make this really clear. Megan, sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. And I

015think Michelle's hand is up. I think you're using my hand, Michelle, because it's blending in with my wall. Sorry. Thanks. I was just going to add that I know we have a new communications director, and I don't know, like, you know, how. The board is working on community relations and communications and the communications team is too. And so, if we can, I don't know if it makes sense to meet with them and try to collectively get on the same page too about that. But I just think that, It seems like they should be a part of this conversation. And also, I would say, you know, being during the COVID time period, it's been a lot more challenging as a board member because we don't have as many opportunities to be around staff informally, like typically

016at our in-person board meetings and staff would be there. And, you know, there could just be a little bit more opportunity to get to know one another. And we really haven't had that. And we have new folks in our communications department. And I don't know if this is the right time to talk about this, but I just, you know, thinking about the last year, I mean, some of the, I feel like there's recurring themes that I have been hearing from members of the community and how we can, like, I feel like our communications have improved a lot, but sometimes, you know, it's still kind of missing the mark with folks. you know, I think part of it is maybe sometimes leading with our values more, just continuing to lead with our values and showing empathy

017for all, because this has been a really hard situation on everyone this past year. And also this idea of like, you know, just wanting to be really proactive in the things that we're doing. Those are the kind of themes that I feel like I keep, I keep hearing. And so I just thought I would mention that since we're talking about it. Yeah, I know that Greg and I have had a little bit of conversation about the communications department itself. So Greg, I don't know if you wanted to just. Yes, I'm going to bring up that, you know, I think it is going to be important for the new kind of communications team to kind of provide the board with an idea of really what some of the structure is going to look like moving forward.

018We're planning to do something in May, late May, at one of our board meetings in May, most likely the May 20th meeting, just to provide some information in regards to the restructuring. of the communications department because we've had, as you know, a new executive director. You know, she just, Kathy just started three weeks ago or two weeks, right, a week before break. So she, even though she was hired, you know, a couple of months ago, she didn't start until a week before break. So there are some restructuring things that we're doing. at this time because we're having some of the transition. It affords us this opportunity without displacing people. And I think it will be a good opportunity for us to share with the board and the community what, you know, our outcomes that we're

019seeking from this and what will be happening with our communications team. So I think it will be timely for us to do that. Okay. Megan, did you want to say something? Or were you just trying to tell me that Michelle had her hand up? If I, yeah, yeah, no, I thought I was, but actually I think Greg just shared a good bit. So I'm good. All right. Well, so stay tuned on that. Don't let it get too far from your vision. Okay, guys, because we've been, we've been hammering this horse for a long, long time and we don't, we don't want to kill it. We don't want to kill it. So let's move into our school board structure and, you know, just talk about in generality. I want to remind everybody that the board previous

020to this team had some similar conversations. The board has been turned over the last two election cycles to have a majority new people, which is not necessarily the best continuity for a team. So. We've had some discussions years ago and created some resolution language saying that we want to explore this and what does this look like. There's a lot of hoops. I want to make it really clear that, you know, you guys hopefully know this, but we, even if we went on the fastest track possible, we're not talking about this election. We're talking about years to make this happen because so many of the pieces need to be in place. One, structurally. What are we required to do legally to make any changes if any changes are being requested? There are multiple governmental entities and

021elected bodies involved in that process. The timeline itself is pretty lengthy. And then we also have the public input, public perception, perhaps even involved in this process of making that change and giving us the thumbs up or down. all sorts of moving parts. So we don't really need to come up with a strategy necessarily. We just need to think about in terms now that you guys have been on this board, every one of you a minimum of two years plus, knowing what you went through and that now just when you're starting to really understand the job and the purpose of a school board member and how to work together to make change, we're going headed deep into an election cycle. So, I'm going to open it up to the floor for you guys to give

022thoughts. And again, this is just high level. This is not really trying to solve anything at the moment. And I know Jennifer and I talked a lot about just logistically some of the things that we do have authority over making change of and some that we don't. So, you know, if you have any questions about that, I'm sure that she can help guide that conversation as well. Lori, I'm just a little confused. Are you looking for our thoughts on pros and cons of changing the structure of changing the structure of the board? Right. Your thoughts on it, whether it be the number of board members we have on the staggered terms versus all being up for reelection at the same time, just the different ways that we have to operate. We create the team inside

023of the parameters that are set for us on the elections. So if you could wave a wand, would you leave it the same or would you make changes? And if you would make changes, why would those changes make things better for us moving forward as a governing body? I feel, I guess, since I, are we raising our hands or are we just talking? Either one. We've discussed this before. I mean, I think. I feel like staggered terms makes tremendous sense because of the fact that the turnover, you know, when you have more than half of the board changing at every election, very hard to have continuity. The size, I'm not as, I don't care as much about having a smaller board just because I think we have a large, we don't have a large city,

024but we have a variety of constituencies. And I'd like, in fact, I'd like to see more diversity on our board than we have. I think we were less likely to get, say, representatives of the Hispanic community, of the Ethiopian community. The smaller the board, the less likely we would be to get representation from these other communities, though we don't have it yet. But I think as we move along in the future, it's conceivable that we could get representatives from these various communities. Remy, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I almost feel like, I mean, I actually lowered my hand because I was like, everyone knows how I feel. You know, I really let some other people talk. Again, I do really think, you know, in this particular, the staggered election part is an interesting one because,

025as we know from the research that was done earlier, for us to do it really involves the council being, doing it as well. You know. So I do hope we can engage in a conversation with them and really with the community as well. I really think there's a lot of benefit to that, you know, again, to the staggered elections. And, you know, it's, I think some people may perceive that that's somehow like trying to preserve people or something like that, but that mathematically is not how it works. It's everyone's still, you know, except for whatever. weird moment of transition. There might have to be some kind of very one-time thing, but it's any individual's board member is up, you know, they're still up for their three-year term. I think it just allows, again, I think

026it gives the right amount of fresh new perspective. You know, but also some continuity and just recognizing that. So I really, really do hope that we can do the staggered elections. I would also say that I'm also in favor of a reduced size of the board. This is another one of these where I don't want that to imply that I haven't tremendously enjoyed. every single person that I've had an opportunity to work with. This is really thinking about longer term structure. You know, it is not uncommon for there to be times when there is there's not a contested election. Right. There literally aren't enough candidates. available, you know, so it ends up being, you know, that there's not, there doesn't end up being a competition, let us say, for the, and I think, you know,

027I think the community loses out on that if they're not getting people that are truly, you know, committed and willing to put in the time and willing to, you know, sort of, you know, go to. fight for a seat at the table, shall we say. I wouldn't want, I'm happy to consider them both separately though as well. So I'm certainly not saying that I need both for us to move it forward. So if a majority of the people are interested in one aspect, but not another, I'm perfectly happy for us to just move forward with one aspect. It's also kind of been thrown out there. I don't think officially with the group, but if we're going to discuss staggered terms and we're going to discuss the number of board members, should we also just while

028we're researching and pulling back layers for the best structure, take a look at the length of the term? So I don't know if that's throwing another wrench in there as well, but I think there are... lots and lots of variations of this. It's my understanding, and I think it would be good just to kind of make sure that we're all on the same page with this and that Jennifer, please jump in, that the number of members of the school board, the school board has the authority to decide that. But the staggered terms would have to be not only approved by city council, but they would also have to move towards staggered terms to be like us structurally. And then ultimately, it would go to the delegate assembly. to be able to make changes to our

029charter or anything that goes along with that. So I know Veronica and Jacinta, you have your hands up, but I'm going to let Jennifer jump in real fast before you guys make comments, just to make sure I'm not telling you wrong. Sure. Thank you, Lori. Hello, board. I want to make one clarification. City Council would still have to approve if the board wanted to reduce the number of members. That does still require a change to the city charter. That would also have to be approved by the General Assembly. So the board does not have the sole authority to make that change. The distinction between the number of board members the reason that that is slightly different than having the discussion about the length of the term or whether or not elections are staggered is that

030that is the one element that would not impact city council in the same way. So city council could approve the board's request to change the size of the board by requesting an amendment to the city charter to be approved by the general assembly and the city council would not have to reduce their numbers at the same time. So that's the distinction. Any change at all to the composition of the board, the length of the term, the election cycle, whether they're staggered or concurrent, those all require city council approval and general assembly approval. It's just that the size of the board does not require council to make the same change to its own body. All right. Veronica, what are your thoughts? So for me personally, I think the staggered term for me is a no-brainer in

031terms of efficiency. Efficiency and organizational development are the two themes and lens of which I come at this topic in question. So first off with the staggered terms, you know, to have a potential of an entire school board be completely brand new at any point in juncture would be... I mean, could potentially be disastrous for a school division, not just ACPS, but any division. I mean, the first year you're trying to get your feet wet and understand what's happening and what's going on and catch up to speed and drinking out of not just one, but five fire hoses at the same time. And then the second year you get your groove. And then the third, you're either. you know, like doing a campaign again or you're not or what have you know, I'm saying so

032like so I just get really concerned about, you know, we have priorities, budget goals. We have a system, a way of doing things. And so I'm just really concerned that at any point there really could be all nine elected and that that would just be a year, potentially even two years lost for a school division. We just can't afford that. So that to me is where I come from in terms of the staggered terms being a no brainer. I actually do feel passionate about nine board members being too big for jurisdiction to size. And there's a few reasons. It all comes back to, for me, again, organizational development structure and framework, as well as efficiency. So number one, if you look at the state ratios of school boards of student population versus how many members

033it takes to operate and oversee that division, we are way out of whack from a ratio perspective, meaning we have too many school board members in comparison to the number of students we have. I think we have the most off ratio of any school division across the state. So that's one thing to consider and keep in mind. I think also, you know, for a mid-sized division, we often talk that. For ACPS, when you are a mid-sized division, your leaders also have to be doers. Where when you have larger jurisdictions like Fairfax County that has 12 school board members, the chiefs and the superintendent have a lot more layers to them and a lot more people they can delegate to. So for a superintendent to be quote unquote on call to all nine members and not

034have the proper layers that like a Fairfax County or Montgomery County have to support that. need and requests and asks. Same with the chiefs, you know, they're constantly being forwarded our questions and they too don't have the layer that requires a nine member board. So that really concerns me as well that we unduly are providing stress on our leadership team, because it's just a lot of folks to respond to and have questions to. I also think it just adds to longer meetings. And I think the longer our meetings are, the more people in the community are thinking to themselves, that's not how I want to spend my Thursday night. And so it really prevents us recruiting our top talent of wanting to engage and be at the serve at the school board level, because it

035just requires a lot of time and attention because there's just a lot of people involved. I also think it. It also prevents us sometimes, not this particular board, I've actually really enjoyed working on this board, but a nine person entity can really prevent teamwork from happening. And if you talk to any one that's worked with school boards, the number one aspect of a successful board is can they come together and work as a team and have united front and focused goals and priorities. And that's really the only thing that's going to lead to the school board having success for division. When you have nine people, particularly for an elected body. and the sunshine laws and all the things that prevent us from working together as a team. We don't have a staff meeting, right? And

036we're not technically allowed to. And so as a result, having nine folks that you need to. you know, touch base with, I mean, like I personally am not in a situation where I can call nine people every month to check in and see how folks are doing. And so I just think that is unrealistic and we're set up for failure in terms of being able to be efficiently and work together as a team as it's just a bit too many. And you also have the danger of having folks again, come in with their own side pet projects and individual desires versus being forced to work together. And as a team and potentially clicks could result, which again is going to just. disable the board from getting the work done. I also think to Margaret's point,

037I actually think the biggest barrier of having diversity on a school board is actually the fact that we are an elected body versus appointed because the campaign itself is really going to prevent folks, particularly from lower income backgrounds, being able to participate either from a time perspective or just what it takes to be overseeing a campaign. It just adds another layer and element of people that again is going to prevent. some of the top talent that do work in Alexandria and have a background that we'd really want on the school board being able to participate because either a campaign frustrates them or intimidates them or it's just not something they want to participate in. And so those are some of my thoughts as terms of why I think it's definitely a worthwhile engagement and I

038think it really could really benefit and support an efficient elect body to really support the school division. So those are some of my thoughts as to why I think this is actually a critical. discussion. Thank you. All right. I'm going to go to Jennifer and then Jacinta. Oh, sorry. I just didn't lower my hand. I'll lower it. Sorry. Jacinta, what are your thoughts? Lori, I just wanted a point of clarification, please. So if we were to say, take something or recommend something to city council, as for us changing our structure, so forth and so on, they would then can either decide if they want to even look at that or, you know, how does that work? And if they do vote on it, then they would have to mirror the same thing, according to the

039city charter, correct? Correct. Okay. They would change their whole structure to be like ours if they were to agree with what we wanted. That's right. That's why it's such a lofty long-term. issue because they're going to have to do just as much analysis on their end as we do on our end to make sure that, you know, we all understand. All the good, bad, and indifferent with any changes. And, you know, we are somewhat at the mercy of the city council, even if we want to change, you know what I mean? Because it will affect them too. You know, if we weren't affected by requesting change, such as the number of people, it might be a little bit different ballgame. But with us having to mirror each other, you know, you're talking about six people

040there, nine people here. both governing bodies being able to look at it from totally different perspectives of their role and determining whether or not moving forward with that kind of structural change is something that we both want. Okay, so just a question. Why are we looking at this now with the situation that they're in and we're in with the pandemic? Just a question. I just want to know. I think that it's come up from multiple board members because at some point we have to have a launch. And what's happening right now is the previous board wanted to tackle this and didn't get it done. Then we had five new people that were elected. over two years ago. So basically when that happened, the conversation really needed to start at ground zero again, because you don't

041have the experience to even have the conversation when you're newly elected. You don't understand why that conversation would happen. So about a year ago, we decided we were going to really take a look at this a little bit over a year ago. And then COVID actually took priority then. So at some point, we have to decide if it's important enough. for this board to have a launch point into that discussion. Because in January, unless all nine of you are reelected, we will have different people that will have to understand the structure and the analysis of it and what that looks like for all the reasons that we're talking about today, pros and cons. Got it. Okay. And we'll come back to you after we go talk to Chris and Cindy and Jennifer, your hands still

042up. I don't know. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, no, sorry. I did raise it one more time. I just I appreciated Jacinta's question because I realized I was not clear. And so I'm glad she asked it. I did just want to reiterate that the size of the board is the one change that would not also impact city council. It requires city council approval. But if the board was to reduce its numbers, city council does not have to reduce its numbers. That's all. All right, Chris, what are your thoughts? Sure. Yeah, I mean, I won't rehash the reasons, efficiency reasons for a smaller board in the staggered terms. To me, they kind of go hand in hand. To me, though, it's kind of. If we can't do one without the other, I don't see the point as much

043perhaps as other of my colleagues. So for me, it fundamentally kind of goes back to this legal question. And maybe I just don't understand it. Is the issue that... you know, I obviously get that council has to approve these things, but is it necessarily the case that like school board and city council have to be in the exact same election cycle? Like, is that a legal requirement or is that just a preference? Like, because my sense is that it's a preference, right? And my other point would be that if there were to be staggered terms, it would seem to me that three-year terms doesn't make a lot of sense. It would have to be like a four-year term or something like that. You'd stagger every two years or something. So I ask this because it

044just seems like the practice in Alexandria is to tether what we do to city council. But I don't know if that's technically a legal requirement or if that's just like what council says that we have to do, right? So Jennifer, do you have a sense of that distinction? Because I just want to make sure it's like really a legal rule that we cannot deviate at all. Yes, thank you for the question. It is a legal rule. You cannot deviate at all from your governing body when you are talking about the length of your term and the election cycle. The only element where you can deviate is the size of the board, and that is in the Code of Virginia. Okay, that's a state statute. Okay. That is a state statute, and I am happy to...

045I don't know if I can put in the chat when we're on a webinar, but I can certainly email the links. Okay. Heather? Thanks. So I worry that this will be a discussion. that will be very easy to continue to put on the back burner. I feel like there's always something that kind of becomes a bigger priority other than this discussion about the structure of our governance. And, you know, it's happening again. And we couldn't have predicted COVID, but it's just, it seems like it's a very big, broad, lofty goal that will be very, very difficult to tackle unless we narrow it down a bit. And I know that like Chris was saying, you know, it makes sense to kind of do both at the same time. But it seems like one of these goals

046is more likely than the other. And so I think really would be prudent is that the board kind of discusses like if size is really a factor that we seriously want to discuss. That seems to be a more, you know, likely goal that we could achieve should we decide that we want to reduce the board. But the staggered elections, I think, will just be a very, very complex. issue to tackle. And we just have way too many, you know, number one issues to tackle right now. So just kind of throwing it out there that I really do think that we need to kind of narrow down, you know, the focus of this conversation a bit. Cindy, what are your thoughts? Well, I've enjoyed listening to all my colleagues, and I think a number of people

047probably know that I'm for staggered elections. You know, we've had as many as seven in recent elections that turned over. And that just is not good for continuity, for getting things done. I think, you know, reducing the size, you know, it did used to be six. So I think that that more mirrors city council anyway. I think, you know, I've struggled with the terms because what I, again, thinking about continuity because I think a lot of people have done two terms of the people that I've known in my time being involved, which, you know, it hasn't been elected for, it started in mid nineties. And I think of it as, you know, would people be less likely to run for a second term if it was fours, because that would be eight years that you'd,

048so that's the only thing I struggle with is not quite knowing where I, where I come down on that, because I would really, so then you'd be looking at. four years versus six years of maybe keeping people. I don't know how people think about that. I think that city council has had over the years, or at least the recent years, until the last election, less turnover, which I think probably made them less. interested in having this conversation because they were less impacted by the election cycle. I think now having the second time in a row where they are going to be greatly impacted, it may be the time to engage them in that discussion. But I also really appreciate Heather's comments that, do we... do we bite off what we, what we think we can

049get accomplished more and narrow it down? And, and so I, I really think there's, there's something to that as well. So I, I think about this a lot and then I get like, my mind kind of gets tied into knots about what, how to actually get it, get it done. So those are my comments. So what are yours? Yeah, I, I, I guess, you know, one of my thoughts is, you know, what is the problem that we're trying to solve? And, you know, like, how do we know that some of these solutions aren't going to get us where we want to be? And one thing I, you know, mentioned this the last time we had this conversation, when we came on the board, Dr. Hutchings shared a book with all of us, Governing at the

050Top by Doug Eadie. And he's described as a person who runs a consulting firm that specializes in developing the capacity of school boards and superintendents to do high impact governing work. And in the book, he touches on this issue of the size. of boards. And he said that sometimes people will tout that smaller boards can be more efficient and that kind of thing. But in his experience, and he's somebody who has, again, specialized in board superintendent relationships and effective governance, he said that these minor efficiency benefits are, in his experience, outweighed by significant costs. And those are less experience on your board. less knowledge that your board members bring to the problem-solving process, less expertise, fewer perspectives when making complex decisions. It also reduces ties to the community, making public and stakeholder relations even more

051challenging, and that smaller boards are more vulnerable to being hijacked by sort of single-issue, axe-grinding, you know, contingents. And so, I mean, I just think... that that's advice that we should really heed. And I will say that when this issue came up, I know I spoke with a board member in Arlington about the size of their board. And the feedback I received was that they wish they were larger because when it comes to workload and things like trying to sign ad hoc committees to do different work, it's really challenging. And so I think that's just, again, something to really think about. I think we have ideas about what's going to be different. I'm just not sure that reducing our board is really going to achieve some of the things that folks are talking about. I

052think that, you know, we have real challenges right now. We have. to try to provide five days of in-person instruction in the fall. We have to build new schools, repair old schools. We have to implement the first ever connected high school network. You know, there's just so many things and I don't see changing the school board is going to solve any of these problems. You know, nor do I think that our community really has any interest in this issue. No one in the community has ever said to me, hey, Michelle, like you really need to make the school board smaller. What I've heard is that people want a more responsive school board. And so I think that's something we need to think about. Even looking at our own board evaluation concerns, it was around communications

053and community relations and our values. And I think if you look at the values that we've outlined in our strategic plan, that we want to be welcoming, equity focused and empowering, innovative and results driven, and that some of our goals include, you know, family and community engagement. Again, I just don't think that reducing the board is going to do that. As far as the idea of a staggered term, I think... You know, as I've reflected on this, I certainly understand the value of like the trying to keep some continuity over time. But if we have a three-year cycle, then most likely we would be looking at. Well, if we have our current size, it's going to be three people up for reelection every year. So that's a significant potential change. And then you would be

054adding the fact that you'd be having an election every year, which I think is going to be a distraction for the board. If you have a nine-member board and the term is three years, Rami, I saw Rami shaking her head. I think I just want a clarification from Jennifer on that, because I'm not sure that's it. I don't think we've completed that. We haven't we haven't made any determination about what it would look like. But all I'm saying is you're either going to have like you're going to have more frequent elections, which is which are disrupting in their own in their own way. So to me, it's just like we're pushing around our vegetables on our plate. Like I don't know that we're really making substantive change. And so if there's things we want to

055do like. make meetings more efficient, have less meetings. We can talk about that. But again, I don't think our job is to make the life of a school board member easier. It's really to also represent our community and to carry out our strategic plan. And so those are my thoughts. Veronica? Yeah, so just a few points of clarification. So if I understand correctly, it would be an election once every three years. Because what would happen is, is that every three years would be three up. So I think that's pretty similar to what we have now. So that's just a data point to provide. So it's not a matter of. more elections, it would be a matter of spacing it out and people would be signing on. I think the other thing is, so to your

056point, Michelle, I think you bring up like what I was trying to get at in terms of the student ratio, like Arlington has 26,000 students or we have 16,000. So that's what I'm saying is that I can understand why they would think five is a little too small because they have 10,000 more students than we have. And so I think it's really using the data to look at like, what is the ratio of what a school system can have? in terms of how many school board members. And I actually don't think six is that is considered a small school board. So I think we could still get to what you're talking about in terms of efficiency and having diverse thought and making sure there's not pet projects and things of that nature. I think my

057biggest concern is your point is what you asked is what are we trying to achieve here? I think we're trying to achieve like. an efficient body that really supports a school division getting to achieve its goals. And I think with a school system, 16,000, the reason nine is, I mean, we're bigger than the city council and they receive, they look over and their purview is way more than ours, which I find wild. I just can't fathom that like their budget's bigger, their number of divisions and departments they oversee is bigger. The amount of constituents that requests they get, you know what I mean? So I think to me, but the biggest concern I have is that the school division is not built. to handle this size of a school. And so we're actually hurting the

058efficiency and the goals being achieved within a division of a group this big. And so I think we can achieve more for the division by having six as Cindy suggested. And so that's some of the thoughts I wanted to have. And I think at some point, I'd be curious to hear where people stand on this issue. Cindy Spence, I'd be curious at some point during the discussion if we could get like a I don't know like a thumbs up or thumbs down or something like that to know what's the appetite for for for considering this and exploring it. Cindy Spence, So those are just a few of my thoughts. Tanya Kessler, I don't know if we'll do thumbs up or thumbs down, but what we can do is just moving forward what our next steps,

059you know, are we going to tackle it, and if so, what does that look like moving forward so Cindy what are what are your thoughts. Cindy Spence, Just some of my thoughts about about what was said that there. One, I'm not sure if the book, I can't remember, was it talking only about elected boards or appointed or appointed or, you know, other nonprofit boards that I've been on. Yes, it's really nice because you can you can fill your holes of expertise. You can look for board members who have particular things. And I can see that that makes sense. But on our elected board, we really don't have we get to get, you know, nine people who have similar backgrounds, really. So I don't know that the nine really gets you necessarily. You know, you might

060have, you know, dumb luck, but it doesn't necessarily give you the breadth that you might expect just by being nine. Also, I think communication can be more difficult when you've got nine people because you have to, you know, keep and especially when we have, you know, we're only allowed to public meetings. It just makes it difficult. to have, you know, timely and make sure everybody's got the same message when there are nine of us. Also, in terms of, it's not about, I don't think, making it easier for school board members. I think we've seen lots of comments with our recent meetings about how long they are. Well, you know, I have tried, first I tried with Rami, and then I tried with Veronica to make our... meetings, you know, shorter, partly, you know, not to

061wear staff out, to not to wear the public out, you know, that's what we're seeing in commons is that they can't stand to go. And so it sort of makes us less accessible to the public when we have long meetings. But when you really look at it, because there are nine of us, anytime there's a question, if you have nine people asking a question on any topic, you can only make it so short. You know, it's just mathematically impossible to make it that much shorter. So I think those are all things. So it's not about, although to the point of making it easier for school board members, I think if you want diversity, and I think if you want, you know, a diversity of interests and people, and, you know, you're going to look for

062diversity of time that the people have to spend doing school board work. And I think that that's making it inaccessible to a lot of people who might have very valuable viewpoints and might actually be very good at. helping us with governance, but there's no way they could commit the amount of time that is currently, you know, needed. So I think, you know, I really can tell you from the first year on the board, staff retention. I mean, it was absolutely affecting in a very concrete way, staff retention, the length of our meetings. So that's my thoughts on that. Remy, would you take your hand back down? Only because I realized that Megan hadn't spoken. So I think everyone else has. So I wanted to. Sorry, I was just listening to everybody. You know, I do

063have concerns about continuity. I think that I have seen so much turnover in the division. I think that turnover in education is a big problem because it prevents, you know, it prevents follow through. It prevents sort of the time to establish and build relationships that continue so that you can move initiatives forward. So continuity is a problem. And I think for a board, you know, I also worry about like staff who are sort of under this thing where like, well, I can have a school board that just, you know, turns over, you know, by six or seven people every three years. And then they are then restarting and recalibrating when they've just started usually. So that's a big concern for me. It's a concern, you know, I think that it's worth, I guess that the,

064the number, my number one thing at this time is that we've been talking about it, but it's like conceptual right now. And I do think, you know, I, to Michelle's point, well, we don't know. if it's going to, what will be effective and what won't be effective, but we have to create an opportunity where we do that analysis. And that's why I think, you know, even if, you know, if we did swaths of staggered number of board members and term length, that gives us sort of a lens through which to look and say, you know, this particular thing right here. would be beneficial to move forward with. I think also in any of these discussions, because they would have to be had with city council, we have to bring them something a little more concrete.

065We would have to be able to bring them something a little more concrete to show how we've thought about it. So, you know, that's, you know, my thinking around, like, you know, if this is something that, you know, people really want to pursue. you know, the next step is looking at the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, like putting those out there concretely so that we are actually looking at something that we can further discuss and something that we can then present to those who would have to be involved in the conversation. Because I think everybody has made great points. And, you know, Heather. Your point really makes, really hits home for me about why we should do a SWOT analysis, because that could help everyone say, you know what, all right, looking at this one, that's

066a heavy lift right now, but this one's worth, you know, attacking. Because at some point, I do think it has to be done. It's something that was brought up, you know, it can just keep passing from board to board if that's what we want. I don't think that's what we want, but, you know, it is about governance and, you know, it does have the potential to lead a legacy that might benefit future governing. That's all my thoughts are on it. Rami? I just want to kind of build off of a couple of the last comments. I really do think it is important for us to, you know, I think what I've heard from the discussion is a lot of people, you know, pointing out what they perceive as the advantages for both the staggered elections

067and the reduced number. But we really do, we're going to keep, you know, Oh, look, it's Rami saying process, shocker. But this is ultimately not radically different from anything else. We have a topic. If we want to pursue the topic, then we have to create the process by which we move forward. And we have to state our intent. And we have to get out of having some discussions in a retreat and saying our intent is to move forward pursuing this topic. That doesn't mean that five minutes after we utter that statement, the thing will happen. We all know that, right? There are discussion moments and there are voting moments and that kind of thing. But we have to state that we want to pursue these because that's what allows us to set up. There's no

068reason for us to schedule a city, a discussion with city council to talk about this. If we're not, if we're not willing to take a moment now to make a statement that there's a majority consensus on the board to, to, to, to move forward and pursue this. So I do think we have to find a way to do that. And, and as far as, you know, you know, joining the chorus saying, you know, I do think, you know, as Heather mentioned, you know, we. We can state our interest in both, even if process wise, we may be from a sequencing or just process thing end up focusing maybe on one aspect more than another. We are a continuing body. But I think it's really important for this form of the board, if we think it's

069worth pursuing, we need to make a clear moment now. So that the next board inherits the work in the same way that the next board inherits our 2025 strategic plan, right? Obviously, they'll put their kind of own stamp on it, but it's a continuing body and they have to inherit the work. If we don't do something now, it will not be inherited work. And we'll have the same sort of moment. This is what has kept happening is there's been this moment, every board gets this interest and then things happen, then we don't push to this next step. And so then it takes a whole nother board and then they kind of have their own epiphany moment. Man, stagger elections or thinking about the board size might really be a good idea. And we can't keep

070doing that. We need to find a way to honor the continuous body process and handing. what we think is good work off to the next board. So process Ramey is interested in thinking about the next step process for this. All right, Margaret, what are your thoughts? I think I already expressed opinions, but I just have a question. I thought we did pass, whether it was a resolution or an emotion of intent at the end of last year's school board sessions. We made a motion. We did something that said we were serious about this and we were going to be looking. Jennifer, are you there? Margaret, I'm here. Didn't we do something like that? Make a motion? I mean, Margaret, unfortunately, all we did was we pledged to do this conversation, which was to look into

071it and then like make a recommendation. Is that right? We pledged to make a pledge. And I said publicly at the time, I didn't understand why we did it. But I think it was a matter of like, we had only a very limited amount of time left. So we were basically saying to the next board, we will do this because we didn't have enough time in the last term. For some reason, I thought it was something a little more than that. Okay. It's a resolution, if I remember right, a resolution from the previous board that went to the city council to say, this is something that we are looking at. And like Veronica said, we don't have the time to completely explore it. And we are going to ask the next board coming in to

072take off where we left off. But it went to city council. Yeah. All right, Chris. Yeah, I was just going to say, you know, listening to everyone, it seems like there isn't really that compelling of a reason against at least the staggered terms. I could see arguments for and against the reduction in size, but the staggered terms, the continuity piece seems to be something that everyone is concerned about. But for me, it kind of goes back to, and Jennifer sent me the statute. after I spoke last time, you know, we really are tethered to what council does. And so it seems to me that unless we could set ourselves up to sort of make the case as to why it's silly that we have three-year terms that are all aligned, like we need to have

073more information and data about that. So for example, are we unique in the state where we have this three-year, everyone goes up at the same time thing? I'd like to see that information that kind of be able to tell council, look, this is kind of silly what we do here. I've always found it to be weird. But, you know, and I will say this too, like, you know, we're also tied to the date of the election under the statute. Council had no problem a few years ago when it served their political interests to move this election from the spring up to November. Now we all know why politically there are reasons that was done. You know, so. I'll just be very blunt about that, right? So there was a will, there was a way to

074make changes. And I do take Cindy's point about the fact that, you know. this is might be a good time to have that conversation with council, given that they are starting to see more of this turnover. So it might be worthwhile to do it. Cause I mean, that my bigger concern is the continuity, the size, like I said, I, I think smaller is probably better, but I, I could see arguments either way for that. And so I guess all that's to say to Heather's point, like I, I get your point about wanting to focus, but if I were to focus on one, I'd want to focus on the staggered terms. I just, and so first off, I definitely, I know that Jennifer, I believe that when Jennifer initially did the research, she pulled up some

075great information about how we really are. Very special in being everybody up in three years. Yes, we're very, very unique across the state. We're unique in terms of our board size. We just like being special. Also, Chris, while it was, just as a point, while it was the city that made that change to November, it's now state law. So across the state. So everybody, all the school boards now, everybody, isn't that correct, Jennifer? Can you confirm that for me? I think that just got passed this year, right? I would have to confirm that. I'm pretty sure that that was part of one of the things that happened this year. So I would just so I just wanted to point those two things out. But the the other thing that I would want to say is

076I think that the great thing about us moving forward in some kind of way, even though, you know, we understand there might be some challenges with the city council, doing it this way makes it officially a community conversation. Right. It forces, I don't mean to use the word force, but it compels the city council to have to respond to the community and give reasons why, despite all of whatever we come up with and all the analysis or something, they do not find staggered elections. They do not find continuity, you know, valuable. And that's... helpful, I think. So it's another reason why I think really moving this into a more explicit arena is beneficial. And it also gives the community an opportunity to comment, you know, and get their feedback to us, feedback to the council.

077So what do you guys want to do for next steps? I've heard a bunch of different things that, you know, when do we? I'm wondering if next steps in listening would be maybe the first thing is gather or, you know, recompile or send over that data about whatever data we already have about staggered turns. And then I think, again, if we're going to, we need to be able to present something to city council that shapes our analysis of that particular thing. Because that will make it, I think, more of a compelling conversation. Right. Like not just here's city council, here's the data, but here's city council, here's the data. And these are the things that we analyze as, you know, potential gains, potential challenges, like the whole thing. So that that then, again, can shape

078the conversation more concretely. I just, my thing is like, whatever conversation gets had, I'm like, it has to be concrete. And not just like ideas. I don't know if that makes sense. Question. And that is about the districts, because the city council is in charge of drawing, I believe, the A, B, and C districts after the 2020 census. So I don't know if we have a sense of what that timeline is, but. I believe it comes out in August, the data. That said, if we went with the original intention was to have six board members, we could actually maintain the current districts and have two per district, which is what originally was the intention. So what do you guys want to do moving forward? Do you want to talk about what Megan is suggesting to

079do a SWOT analysis after we've received what was already been compiled previously when this discussion was kind of at the forefront? I guess so. Yeah. Is anybody not interested in doing that that wants to say something about that? I would rather not do it, but. Okay, well I'll work with Susan to try and get a timeframe. You know, again, not only for the first item that we talked about, but the whole restructuring of the board and doing the SWOT analysis. And, you know, just so you know, Michelle, maybe the SWOT analysis will help. I mean, it's not going to create an obligation on our part, but I think it would be an opportunity for at least to try and not have this, you know, theory type. conversation and really start to really see what it

080might look like if we were to move forward with it or not. I mean, a SWOT analysis is just that. It helps you decide once you analyze it, if it's worth moving forward with next steps or whether it's best left alone or what if there are actions needed or not. So we'll have that opportunity. All right. Final thought, Rami. I'm sorry. Just as a question for everyone, just in terms of a communication process, does You know, there is the regularly scheduled monthly subcommittee meeting between the school board and the city council. And I don't know if people have any thoughts about if it's appropriate for, you know, Chair Alderton and Vice Chair Nolan to maybe indicate to the city council that we're doing this, or do we want to finish it first and then send

081it over in a memo? I'm just trying, again, I'm just trying to think about. you know, communication moments. Cause, cause right now it's, I realize I'm saying this in a publicly broadcast meeting, but, but, but these, the retreats are definitely a different format and a different kind of setting. So I just, I'm just trying to think about if, you know, do we need a more distinct communication moment? I personally think that more communication is better and to try and help them just alleviate any anxiety or concerns that we're taking any action or a hard. a hard line in the sand on anything. This is just a pure exploration and discussion based on what both governing bodies have experienced with everybody at the re-election at the same time kind of structure. So I don't see us

082doing anything to hurt ourselves just by informing them that we're having these discussions and going to explore it further. But I'll leave that up to leadership. All right, let's move into board superintendent communication. And, you know, this is just an important opportunity for us to, in an informal way, be able to talk about how we can be better as a team. How can we communicate better with each other? Making sure that, you know, we have a lane and a role and the responsibility as a school board, lane, role, and responsibilities for superintendent. They are not meant to cross paths and mesh. They're meant to stay very defined for each group. So, you know, let's talk a little bit about what your thoughts are around that. Greg, you want to say anything? Sure, I'll start off.

083I mean, first I'll start off by saying what a meeting last week. You know, I think that at the end of the day, I can honestly say that with emotion and what our team, we really are on the same page. And I mean, I think even, you know, when I met with our team on Monday and we talked through, you know, because we were already strategizing, we just didn't have definitive dates at that time. We were already kind of prepared to pivot. We were really just trying to focus on the most recent pivot we were doing prior to spring break, which was bringing back the additional students on April 20th and the additional students on April 27th. And we were making those personal contacts with all those families based on the prioritization. matrix. But I

084did want to take some time just to give you a couple of updates from, you know, just from last Thursday. And because we did, you know, solidify some of our planning yesterday. And one thing that we know that we definitively will be able to accomplish is we'll be able to have all of our classrooms throughout the school division adjusted to the three feet by April 26. You know, there was some grumblings about it, of course, because the, you know, our custodial staff and our facility staff, they were still trying to do some of the measurements and things and they're working on how to accommodate summer and the fall. So they, we had to tell them just, just to pause just for a minute so that we can go ahead and pivot. We are going to

085bring in some additional supports to try to get it done in an expedited fashion. so that we could have it by the 26th and then April 26th. And then also we'll be able to have our planning in regards to how do we accommodate the six foot lunch? Because remember, three feet is for the classroom setting, six feet for lunch and working through how do we accommodate that during the day? So principals are working and their teams are working through finalizing. those pieces as well. Another thing that we talked about yesterday is we really want to be able, when we meet on April 22nd with the board, to provide our updates for the spring, the summer, the fall, as well as our air quality updates. We want to be able to really touch on the importance

086of us having the two cohorts and keeping that throughout the remainder of the spring. because it will afford us an opportunity to reach more students. You know, one thing that we've been talking about consistently over the past several months was the fact that we wanted to reach as many students as possible. And having those two cohorts will afford that. Another thing is that we don't want to put ourselves in a situation where some families have begin to make accommodations for these for two days and they've been able to work some things out right some families haven't but some families have we then add another one disruption because it does take time to pivot into the four days and we're already well into April now But two, it can cause some additional hardships for families now

087who might need just one day and or who might still have, for whatever reason, that need for some of the additional child care options. Another thing that, you know, pivoting to four days, it does decrease the number of students that we are able to accommodate. So, for example. and this is just a hypothetical example so um you know miss dr hart and her team and some other folks will be able to present this better uh on april 22nd but let's say i'm in a classroom we have you know a classroom that fits six kids right and we know there are six students on uh tuesday wednesday and then there are six students on thursday friday Going to three feet doesn't necessarily allow us to have 12. seats in the classroom because there are other things

088within that classroom and spaces that we have to still put into consideration. It's just not an open space in every room. So you don't automatically get to double the number of desk or students in that space. So let's say we go from six feet to three feet, and now we're able to accommodate 10 students, right? over four days we can accommodate 10 but we have 12. So we're now having to figure out what to do and that would require us moving those two kids out of that setting and putting them in one of our other locations which we have been doing to accommodate you know some of our additional students like and that's why we've been using the cafeteria space, hallways, gyms, I mean a number of different libraries to accommodate some of these additional

089spaces but it will not afford us an opportunity to bring in more kids. So we would have to keep the numbers that we currently have. And we're already about to transition 3,000 more students in, you know, over the next, that's already set. That's not something that, well, we have 3,000 spots. I can't say all 3,000 are going to come back, but we have 3,000 spots to fill over the next two weeks. And that's just going to grow as we, you know, add these additional seats from the three feet. So that was one of the reasons why. the two cohorts is where we really need to stand so we can keep more student options and bring back more of our students. So those are some of the specific things that we are working through. We are

090finalizing our playground. And, you know, you have to keep in mind, you know, the more students we bring in, it just becomes more of a challenge with the playground piece. But we're working through that and we are in the process of hiring additional classroom monitors. We're hoping that we can repurpose some of the classroom monitors as our staff who had children or childcare issues as they transition back on May 3rd. We're hoping that that will allow us to free up some of the classroom monitors that we currently have in place. And we purpose them for just different roles in the school. It might be monitoring students while they're eating or monitoring students while they're on the playground, just so we can accommodate the additional number of students who are going to be coming into the

091building. Because we are still having a challenge trying to get more classroom monitors because everybody's hiring classroom monitors right now, not just ACPS, but all of the school divisions. So, I mean, we're doing as best we can. And right now we don't have. avoid which is good we don't have any major situations right now in the current day um But we're really just trying to make and trying to prevent and alleviate additional challenges as we move forward. But we're going to work through them. And, you know, our team is resilient. They have been resilient this far. So we're just going to keep pressing forward. But I wanted to give you all that update to let you know we believe in three feet, too. And we also are going to ensure. that were able to do

092that prior to the end of this month. So that is the goal. I'm really glad that you clarified that because I did watch the video on Friday of that particular conversation. And I think that some of the media had portrayed it as differing opinions between the board and the administration. So I'm glad you clarified that because I think that's important for all of us to recognize that, you know, there was not a differing of opinion necessarily that was happening. with the three feet versus six feet. As we move into the conversation and open it up for you guys to make comments and thoughts or whatever, but I want to make sure that we don't get too far down into, this is not a work session. So we don't need to talk about ventilation, which I

093know is heavy on some of y'all's minds. We don't need to talk about, you know, playgrounds, time frame of when the kids are going to eat, if they're going to get to eat with Johnny or not. I mean, we don't need to go into that kind of discussion. It will happen. I mean, y'all are going to have to talk about these logistics as you move forward, just like every school board, but it's probably better suited in a work session. And so, you know, I want to talk more about, you know, Friday's communication, if there's anything that we need to kind of talk about as a group. or just in general, how we are interacting with us as a team and with us as with the administration. Michelle. Yeah, just a point of clarity, Dr. Hutchings,

094I know you mentioned that the ACPS Express had moved from Friday to Wednesday, and I wasn't aware that that change was happening. And I was just wondering if you could talk about if that's going to continue to happen, because I think having it after the board meetings, you know, was definitely helpful in the sense that, you know, we had usually discussed things right before they were published. But what is... Can you just talk about the plan for that moving forward? We are moving back to Friday because really Fridays work better, honestly, for the same reasons that you mentioned, because sometimes we had to make adjustments to like our messaging based on our conversation with the board or. just different things that might have transpired that we didn't expect, you know, in regards to a particular

095topic. So that gives us that flexibility. That's why sometimes you would see that we would say it's going to come on Monday instead of Friday to give us some time, sometimes due to translations and things of that nature. So we're going to go back to the Friday date. We initially went to Wednesday because, you know, our new executive director just started two weeks prior to spring break. She was working with her team. They really liked the Wednesday versus the Friday date and that type of thing. I did go along with it like, okay, I mean, she just came on board. That's fine if you want to do that. We already were doing it on Wednesday, so it wasn't anything new. But I think after, not that this situation caused all that, because really what the

096conflict was, was the miscommunication that was a part of the ACPS Express. And it was the specific statement that was in bold that stated we would be at six feet for the remainder of the year. That is really what caused the miscommunication within the community. Whereas that really wasn't the intent. We were having discussions about that prior to spring break, but that was prior to us really delving into the CDC guidance and things of that nature. So that wasn't the expectation. for the remainder of the school year. The expectation was that we were going to return after spring break still at six feet because I did not want us to make a decision about pivoting to three feet right after spring break when we were still working through, you know. taking a deep dive into

097what the guidelines stated and all the caveats that came along with it. I just didn't feel comfortable jumping right into saying, yep, we're going to go right to three feet right afterwards. But the intent was never to remain for the entire school year. Any other thoughts on communication or last Friday's meeting, Heather? On the subject of the ACPS Express, I'm happy to hear about the revert back to Friday. I definitely think that just procedurally will work best for everybody. And one thing I know that we've done a few times before, and I would be interested in seeing it happen more, is, you know, for very kind of important topics that we know would be hot topic issues in the community. I know a few times the board was able to see like a draft that

098would go out, you know, whether it was about like. change in the feed policy or whatever. But, you know, even if you just give us a day, like I would really appreciate the opportunity to kind of just at least see what's going on in the express for just really kind of important issues before they go out to the degree that it's feasible. I know a lot of times communications moves very quickly, but just figured I'd pass that along to see if it's even possible. So really what we were using were the board meetings to help with that, because a lot of our soundbites came from what came out of the board meeting sessions, you know. So, for example, and I'm going to go back to I don't really think that it's a Wednesday, Friday issue

099from last week. The issue was the bold six feet to the end of the school year. Right. If on Wednesday, if the language was as it was intended to be, was that we're. at six feet right now, but we're looking at the specific guidelines to make our revisions moving forward, I don't think we would have had the same response with the community in regards to that. But, oh, sorry. That's my son. I don't know what's going on. But he's all right, though, I think. So, but one thing I think that is, you know, going to be important for us is as we go through our board meetings, typically what we do is we take a gauge of the comments that come after our presentations. That really helps us with our messaging from the board. So

100it's not new information to board members when it goes out. A lot of it is information that came out of our discussion. So it's not a surprise in that. And I think that that format. That we just started, because we weren't always doing it that way either. We started that, I want to say about November, maybe it might have been November when we started doing it on Fridays. And I think it worked really well. So to your point, it will help us to make sure that it isn't something different from what the board has already said. If we keep it on those Fridays. And sometimes we do have to change it to Mondays if it's a substantial number of items. Chris. Yeah, thanks. No, and thanks for all these clarifications, Dr. Hutchings. I appreciate them

101and it all makes sense to me. One suggestion I was just going to offer is for the communication team when they're... reviewing the express just to kind of be attuned to like which statements you know might be like policy type statements right that that would require board input um just so that you know there's another check in the process to say oh well this might be something where you know the board's going to see this as policy and and so you know maybe we shouldn't put this one out yet um because to your point like the wednesday or friday really doesn't matter as long as like what comes out from a policy perspective is consistent with prior board meetings. And so I think that's where my concern mainly arose is that it just felt like

102a new policy was being enacted through a communication that hadn't been discussed with the board. So I think the more that the communications staff is just sort of attuned to, you know, what is a policy communication and sort of maybe trained on that and you guys review that with them, I think that will help prevent these sort of issues in the future. I totally agree. I think one advantage that we do have is having Jennifer a part of the SLT. And, you know, and this wasn't a topic for the S because normally SLT is also on Thursday. You know, that's another reason why I should be on Friday. You know, Jennifer, she always says, hold on for a second. You know, she she chimes in and, you know, she she has the ability to catch,

103you know, to catch some things when we have those meetings prior to. And that's just another reason why Friday really does work well for us and point taken. Veronica, Chris, were you done? Yeah, that's it for now. Yep. Okay. No, great point, Chris. Yeah, no, I really appreciate the discussion. Thanks so much, Dr. Hutchings, for walking us through this. I just think it's another data point that we just want to all be very mindful to be overly transparent with the community and use school board meetings as the tool to do that. Because candidly, I wasn't aware that until right now during the statement that there was intention to go three feet. Like, I'm literally learning this right now during the retreat. And so I just think that for what it's worth, like, That would have

104been helpful to share during the meeting and kind of explain like what the blunder was with the communication and like what's the intention, what's the process that went to make that decision. So again, I just think it's another helpful data point and just a solid reminder that sometimes when you're so in it, you can forget that, you know, that not everyone's fine. I know people are paying attention. And just another side note as well as I also am getting some feedback from folks is that people are really tuning in and using the school board as a means to. find out what's happening in real time. And so we may even want to consider from an agenda setting perspective, moving the opening of schools and the updates to maybe perhaps the first of the top of

105the agenda. Because I know a lot of people are kind of wading through other agenda items. Not that they're all not fascinating, but you know, like 45 minutes of the high school specs might've been a little too much and can also add to people's tension. So just some thoughts about the agenda. And again, I just think it's just another reminder for us that. This is a frustrating time for folks. People do want to make sure kids are in school. All the data is showing that's what's best for children. And at this point, everyone's vulnerable. And so I just think the more that we can share with folks what the intentions are and to be explicit about it, all the better. So just wanted to share that. And I totally agree. Totally agree. I really do.

106I do want to say that I shared this with our team yesterday. I think it's important for, and I was telling our team, I was like, The board and I, we are on the same page, everybody. I don't want you all to fall into everything that you're reading in the news and those types of things because they knew better as well. And I wanted people to not walk away from our meeting thinking that we're not a team. One thing that I truly believe in, and I mean, we've come so far. Now, granted, I don't think we would be able to have a discussion even like this if it was two years ago. because we were having some challenges with trying, how do we work together? How do we understand people's intent and things of that

107nature? But I feel we have grown so much as a team. I feel like I've grown a lot as a superintendent from your feedback, working with Lori, you know, I've been taking all of that in. And I just want us to, you know, continue. to keep this type of team effort. And it's okay to have disagreements. And it's okay for us to talk publicly about some of our questions or misunderstandings so that people can see, one, we're human, and two, that we can work through. our challenges and our issues as professionals, you know, and keep it moving and keeping our eye on the prize because we still have a lot of work that we got to get done, right? And separate from the three feet piece, I mean, there's still a ton of things that

108we have to work through that we'll be talking about on April 22nd, you know, for summer and fall as well. I just really appreciate the fact that we do have a space where we can come together and talk through and have opportunities to provide understanding. So just thank you for that. I think that's a really good point, honestly. You know, I mean. It takes time to develop a team because it's a relationship and we don't have to agree, but everybody comes at things differently. So you need to get to know each other to know sometimes where they're coming from. Or if you don't understand where they're coming from, that you have an opportunity in a non-threatening way. to say, I don't understand where, what, where you're coming from on this, you know, I mean, I

109just can't, I can't understand it. But again, when I saw the video, I did not see the team break apart. Like some may have that don't know you guys. You know, what I saw is really, truly miscommunication. And, you know, I think it was happening so fast, perhaps with you know, ACPS Express, the Washington Post, the trying to contact board members about situations, having a board meeting that night about the community starting to email you guys and comment on the post. I think all of it was just sort of happening all at one time. So it created a lot of confusion for everything that was going on. So yeah, I think that this kind of conversation, if you see a little bit of a misstep is so critically important. Because ignoring it or not having

110an opportunity, and we all know how hard it is for school board members to, you know, be transparent and have open meetings. But if we ignore it and just move on, it starts to build up just like any relationship that you don't take care of. So, you know, I sound like a therapist. I'm not. I'm just trying to make sure that our team, you know, really does. take it, take opportunities to care for our team, because that's the only way we're going to make good changes and good decisions for our kids. And, you know, I don't have to tell you guys, but every group that I'm dealing with right now. it's just a complete new ball game and they're just trying their very best to do what we need to do to educate kids, to

111make our teachers happy and to make sure that the division moves forward. So, you know, I applaud you guys. I talked to most of you and you guys have the one thing I love about this group. is your head's in the right place. Your desires are in the right place. You all want the same thing. You want this division to be great. You want to produce a great graduate. You all have a lot of the same very parallel outcomes or desired outcomes. Now how to get there, maybe a little bit different path for each of you, but you know, it's, it's. I'm really proud of the work that you guys are doing through COVID and otherwise. So I publicly want to say that to you guys while I have you all together at one point.

112But any other thoughts that we want to talk about? I think, oh, sorry. One comment I would have on the communication front is something I feel like I've started to realize is that one thing we might want to do a better job of is communicating the things that we are doing. Um, because I, I feel like, you know, for example, the, the, the decision-making matrix, um, wasn't, and, and I don't know, maybe it was out there like school by school, but I didn't get a sense that it was something that, you know, the community even knew was a thing. Right. Um, we knew it was a thing because we were briefed on it. Um, but, you know, sometimes I almost feel like we're under, uh, underserving ourselves. in, you know, the information that we put

113out. So, you know, but I know it's a challenge too, because we're in this constant issue of like, you know, are we communicating too much? You know, is it just too much information? But I think, you know, we're just... we're going to continue to just, you know, work through, you know, what good communications looks like for us. But I did notice, you know, sometimes I've said things to people and they're like, oh, I had no idea that was even happening, you know? And they're like, that's really good. Like, I didn't know that. So, you know, maybe, and I don't know, maybe in agenda settings, sometimes we sit and say like, you know, what are some helpful nuggets that we know? internally that we think would be good to go out in communication sometimes. That was

114just my two cents. Yeah, I would imagine that if I had to guess, and I don't want to put words in Greg's mouth, but as the communications department is restructuring, I mean, I can see how you guys could play a role in just the input and the optics of what you see. because the school board is supposed to be this kind of bridge between the community and the school division in that regard. So I do think that there may be opportunities for that moving forward. I think that's a great point, Megan. I agree. I was going to say, Lori, I agree 100%. I think that when we are able to talk about our communications kind of structure, that would be a really good time for us to... ask the board, what are some, and maybe

115you all can start thinking about that so that you're not caught off guard. But then you can be providing us with some guidance or just from some experiences. Hey, this is what we've experienced because Kathy and Julie. they both are new. I mean, granted, Julie's been here since July, but she's been consumed in COVID. She still is not able to understand our community, to meet people in our community face to face. She's toured it and everything, and she's been a part of some things, but I think your insight around, you know, just some experiences we've had and where you would like to see us go could be very helpful. as we're looking, you know, for, to fill these positions as well as revising people's roles and responsibilities. All right, Ramey. Yeah, I just wanted to

116build off what both Megan and Greg just said. You know, I do think that there are so many things that the school board is not an expert in, you know, that we really, we like to, you know, receive information from the staff and then, you know, process it and react to it. But one area that we really can provide some insight is, you know, what we're hearing or seeing or how the community is reacting to things. And that is something that I really think, you know, we, I really welcome the opportunity to do that because, yeah, we, there is so much potential work that communications can do. And I want them to be able to focus on the stuff that really is going to, you know, is going to meet the needs and really celebrate

117the great stuff we do. You know, I just, I was reminded of this the other day, you know, my son actually, you know, contacted me from while he was in college and he had seen the Washington Post article about you know, the night school offerings that we're offering to, I see everyone nodding their hands. I mean, what a fantastic story about what, you know, a different way of thinking about how ACPS is confronting the pandemic. You know, these identifying, there are these kids, they're not showing up to school. Why? Let's drill down and find out. It's, oh, it's because they're having to, you know, take on more daytime work hours because, you know, members of their family are, you know, out of work because of COVID. And, you know, for us to create that, to

118be able to be, I mean, what a fantastic story. And I'm so glad, you know, people, you know, got to hear that last week along with, you know, all the other stuff. So, you know, really. We have great stories to tell. We have great stories to share with our community. Absolutely. And, you know, I've said this to you guys before, but it's human nature. You could do a hundred things really well. And one thing you get dinged from the community about, and you all focus on that one thing instead of the. 10 things that you did really, really well. So we don't always do a really good job of focusing on all of the things we're doing well. That doesn't mean you ignore when we screw up or when we make a mistake or we

119have a miscommunication, you own it. You do the very best that you can to explain it. And then you move on. I mean, that's the way it works. So, you know, I don't want us to. to lose sight of the fact that the work you're doing is significant and it's really, it's really good work. It's really good work. Cindy. Yeah, my son also sent me the article this week. So he was very proud and very happy and very impressed, you know, with what it was about. But what I really I've been thinking before, and this is Megan's speaking reminded me, you know, the positive things like I wonder if it would be good. And I apologize if it is somewhere on the website to show how many students we have returned to school, you know,

120and see it tick up. you know, as we're starting to get more and more returning, that someplace where it shows, because I think some people with all the noise who don't maybe have kids in the system, there's nobody returned, you know, like with all the complaining that's going on, they might think that no one's back in school because there's still all the open ACPS, you know, and all that stuff all over the place. So that was just a thought I had, which I meant to send as a... as an email but I hadn't so I just took this opportunity to share that thought. Is that on the website Greg or do you know? No sorry I was trying to unmute um no it's not it's not on the website as of right now. I could

121almost, that's such a like good image, Cindy. It's just like this rolling number. That's kind of. Julia mentioned it to her, but I asked her, I really asked her to have her team just watch this portion of the retreat because it is recorded. So I think this is going to be helpful for her and her team because they can hear firsthand. I think this is very valuable information. I mean, her text back to me was like, that's very helpful. You know, I was just giving her tidbits, you know, quickly. I think that, you know, this kind of two-way communication on our end, I think is going to be important for the team. And as Ramey mentioned earlier, you know, one thing that board members do have some expertise in is communicating with community stakeholders, because

122that is what you do. And I think that we need to make sure we're embracing that and getting that insight. So this is... you know, a spot on conversation. And I think, I think they're really going to embrace it. Excellent. Jacinta. Thank you for saying that Dr. Hutchins. I really don't need to say, I say it all the time that communications is our downfall. So I really look forward to the restructure and, you know, moving forward with the communications audit. Can you give me a little bit of information on where we are with that? I don't think we've received an update in a while on the audit. I think the update is scheduled for either May or June. So I don't know any specifics that I can give you right now at this moment. But

123I do know it's scheduled for May or June. We pushed it out initially. It was supposed to be in April. And we changed it because we knew we were having a change in leadership with the new executive director. So we had pushed out a little further to May or June. We put it towards the end of the year. Okay. Thank you. And Lori, I just wanted to say you are a therapist. Never ever say that you aren't never ever say that ever again. I will say that I have told people because it cracks me up because Veronica always says she's a school board whisperer. I was just going to say that. And I take that as a compliment. I do, but you know, I mean. I just, I appreciate so much what you guys do

124because I've sat in your seat, you know, and it's just really hard to explain to somebody the role of a school board member and, you know, what you're up against if you've not really done it before. It's just, you know, it's like a parent, you know, like somebody trying to tell a parent had a parent that doesn't have children. It's just, it's, it's. You can do it, but you haven't done it. So it's a little bit different of a dynamic on, you know, where you sit and just kind of what you go through. So, yeah. Well, thank you, Jacinta. That's, you're very sweet. I enjoy each one of you. And I don't think I've ever had a conversation with any of you individually that I didn't hang up the phone saying the division is very,

125very lucky to have that person on the school board. So, you know, I really, I really do believe that. All right. Who has not talked about some of the things that are going on in our discussions that would like to say something. Heather, you have anything else you want to add about just the whole communication piece? No, I'm happy to hear that, you know, there's a lot of lessons learned. We've had quite a few of them over the past couple of weeks. But I'm definitely looking forward to the conversation with the communications team, because I think the more we can make that a two-way conversation and engagement together, the better we'll be as a division. So I'm excited for that. So I've made it clear to all of you guys, you know, and I think

126that we're all on the same page on this, but, you know, it's not going to be easy to restructure a communications department. It's not. I mean, that's just, it takes work and it takes a lot of attention. And you're not going to be able to restructure and then all of a sudden you're done. It's a continual work in progress, right? But one of the things that I think would be really helpful that I've heard from all 10 of you is. actually everybody on this panel right now, is that, you know, we need to be a little bit more proactive in just politically charged conversations and how to, you know, create some of those silent steps to create, you know, awareness and communication in the community when we know there's going to be an issue that

127might be emotional or charging. And the other thing is that we've learned as school systems that, you know, We got caught. Everybody got caught with COVID. Nobody, nobody, I don't mean that literally, but everybody got caught not knowing how to handle a crisis like that. So there's a lot of crisis communication plans that are being readdressed or created along the lines of their communications department. So, you know, Greg, those may be some other ways that the board can really help give some input are just from going through just this last COVID crisis. You know, what does that look like? And did we have any lessons learned from our communications piece, not just in a snapshot, but overall? that need to be incorporated into some kind of a crisis plan or some kind of a communication

128or, you know, ways that we engage media or not or those types of things. Any thoughts on this in crisis or any kind of outreach that we need to be careful of? I mean, you guys have been. In two years, if you just look at the politically charged topics that you guys have been involved in, it's pretty significant. It's pretty significant. It's not the norm. I mean, you had more than your share of those kind of hot topics. And so. I do think that it's a really good idea to just make sure that we figure out how to make it so that it is not quite as hot. There are strategies that you can do things to not make them quite as emotionally charged in the community. All right, there was... Oh, no. Go ahead,

129Margaret or Megan. It's not Maggie, it's Megan. I think one of the things I can definitely say, you know, we had a lot going on at Thursday's meeting, but I think I have to say, like, we came together as a team through, you know, various different, you know, various big conversations back to back. Like, I just felt like, you know. we were a team, whether it was about the high school or, you know, the high school discussion, everybody started off in different places and somehow we came to a common place, you know, and it was just that, you know, respecting and listening to everybody's thoughts and using that like true deliberation to meet consensus. So I was proud of you guys. way to go. Totally agree. It was a lot of teamwork on Thursday because

130not, I don't think there was one of those conversations that was easy. I guess, I guess I need to express, I felt very sad after the meeting myself and particularly the next day when I read the newspapers and I just felt that while we were all blindsided on the one hand, I, for one, was not the least bit surprised. I wouldn't have been surprised. I knew we had not made a decision as a board to hold off, to stick with the six feet until the end of the year. However, I knew that there were a lot of teachers who were. hesitant to even move from virtual to in-school. There was a lot of questioning on our staff, still a lot of concern about safety issues, about just the work, the fact that they had put

131so much into creating a virtual system and that the assumption that it's an easy thing to just... automatically slip to the next thing. And so when the six to three feet came up, I thought to myself, you know, the expectation that a school system can just shift gears so quickly, I think is unrealistic. So I was not happy when I saw in, you know, that we hadn't, my husband read me the article, the post. And I said, that's crazy. We did not go down that. That is not our policy. I said, but on the other hand, I don't know. So when I talked to Dr. Hutchings, I frankly thought this was one of those things where you say you're sorry afterwards. But he explained to me, no, it wasn't. He really wasn't doing something. But

132I was ready to accept that just because my sense was that they really did want to study it. And obviously, we are bombarded day in and day out by folks who are very critical of. studying the issue. But to me, the bottom line is because the press so loves to pounce on, what's the word I want to say? Not negative, but attention getting languid. Okay, so they may I felt it was an embarrassment I felt the articles made it look not like we've come together at all but like that we were actually at odds, and I thought that was very unfortunate it really it troubled me I felt sad for days. On all the other issues, I did feel we came together as a board. And I also was happy with the resolution, ultimately, where

133we did all vote on this motion to move ahead so that we could reassure the public that this is where we were going. But I felt badly that the interpretation was by, through the press, that this was somehow not what Dr. Hutchings wanted. And it bothered me because I, you know, I just, that's just how I felt. I just wanted to be honest because I feel like we're all talking about coming together. And I, you know, I really like this board and I feel we do come together, but this I found very troubling. I don't, I think we have to be aware that the press loves to pick up on sensational language. I guess that's my point. And I wish we could have all kept our language, you know, a little less sensational so they

134wouldn't have had such a story. I don't think it's good for the school system or good for Dr. Hudson. That's how I feel. Ramey, did you take your hand back down, Ramey? You did? Okay. And I think it is under the bridge at this point. I really do. And I think that we're all we're moving forward for everybody. I have respect for every single one of you. And I really do value the relationship that we have separate from the board superintendent relationship. I have a relationship with each and every one of you. And it was on purpose because we we're doing some of the toughest jobs in the world right now. We really are. So if we had no. a relationship in addition to just like the board superintendent, we would fail. I really do.

135And I just feel like the reason why I'm able to stand tall and to keep coming back and doing this is because I do have a board like each and every one of you. That makes a huge difference. I mean, we have a great staff too, don't get me wrong. And the staff is very supportive, but you all helped me do this work. I do not feel alone. And this is probably one of the loneliest jobs out there. Nobody wants to be a superintendent right now. Nobody is signed up to take my job. They don't want it, you know, because it's not at this time. One day they might, but not today, you know. And it's a pretty lonely place. But I never genuinely feel alone because I know I do have nine other people,

136really 10 because I count Lori, that I could call on when needed. and that we can talk through our challenges. So I just appreciate that. And I know we couldn't have done that two years ago. I know I didn't feel like this two years ago. And it can only get better until some of you don't come back in a year, which I'm disappointed about. But I understand everybody has to do what's right for them. But I just do know, I just want you all to genuinely know, I am very grateful. for each and every one of you. I value our relationship aside from the board superintendent relationship. Well, and I think Margaret, you know, if I had to guess that you weren't the only one who was just left there, not feeling like everybody was

137happy and, you know, and so I think that it's fair what you said and, you know. It's going to happen. Things like that are going to happen. That's why these type of retreats are so important. It's kind of odd that this retreat was scheduled to take place when it was because I think it was perfect timing because we haven't been able to meet since January and we didn't need a real heavy topic right now. We needed to have a good, great, this is hard moment. And I think that that's okay. And we don't get to do that very often together. So I think I appreciated your comments, Margaret. Well, we have a little bit of time left. I'm not going to take us to the end of nine o'clock if we are through with it.

138Susan, I did have a question, though. When I printed the agenda earlier, I don't remember hearing about it says written public comment. Was that just to be able to talk about any of the comments that the board's receiving around some of the communication piece? That is for the purpose of the public to submit. written public comments if they wish to. We did not receive any this week. Okay. So that's sort of something we're doing every meeting now, given that we're not yet meeting publicly. Okay. All right. So are they specific to the meeting itself that's coming up? Not necessarily. But if they are, and if we receive any specific to this meeting, I'll be happy to forward them to you as well, Lori. But not necessarily. Okay. All right. So any closing thoughts, guys? Yes,

139Jacinta? Yes, I was wondering, would it be possible when we have the meeting at the end of the school year to do it in person? I get more out of the retreats when they're in person. More so than I do on Zoom. I don't know if anybody else feels that way, but it's very different having it on Zoom. You know, it's just not as effective in my opinion. So I would like to put that thought out there for the end of the school year retreat. Now, I definitely, I mean, without, I think that if we're going to be opening schools and trying to get as many kids into school. we have to kind of follow that lead, that example. Now, I know that's a big blanket statement and everybody has their own comfort levels on

140that. But I think it's worthy of a discussion. I think I told a couple of you guys this, that my sister came to visit and she lives in Virginia. And she said, I love to state that. the protocol is to wear double masks and I landed in a state where nobody's wearing masks. It's a very different world and I mean I do travel not a lot but about half of our clients are meeting in person. We're still social distancing many times you know everybody's wearing masks so it's kind of on a case-by-case is what's happening right now. I'm willing to travel to come and meet with you guys. I think that we have the space in those rooms to be able to social distance. I know that I'm going to have to yield to. you

141know, those that are not comfortable or what those laws might look like, or just all of the different logistics surrounding, you know, hybrids and non-hybrids and all of the things that go along with that, that I'm not versed enough about. But I think it's definitely worthy of a conversation. Susan and I were kind of up in the air at the beginning when we first started planning this particular treat, because there was some discussion about being back in person and then that sort of went away. So I think we're getting closer to. becoming more of a real conversation instead of a wish conversation. So Heather. On a slightly related note, I guess, you know, in thinking about our earlier discussion about accessibility and, you know, the people who actually have the time and effort to do

142school board, you know, I think the timing of our meetings and, you know, I guess in the COVID period, the degree that we can make them in person, these things like really matter. You know, for me, for these in-person meetings that we're having now at five o'clock, like, I'll be honest, that's very difficult for me with my job circumstances right now. And, you know, seven o'clock was great, you know, gave me enough time to commute and everything. But I just hope like moving forward, we are cognizant of, you know, when we are having meeting times, you know, to the degree that we need to start having them on Fridays again. noon is also a difficult time. So I just want us to be conscious of that because it really does impact who is able to

143do school board moving forward. Rami? So I'll take it out even further. I think these are really good points for us to think about for now. It's been very, it's given me a lot to think about when I think about the length of our meetings, but the sheer amount of material we have to go through and the reality that, you know, While there's definitely been discussion about, I'm talking about in-person meetings now, could we start earlier? There might be reasons why we can't, you know, as Heather indicated. I'm just going to throw something out here now. In the same way, when I was still chair, we had... just barely touched on some discussions about, could we, you know, there are many points in the year and a lot at the end of the year when

144the school board recognizes different groups and entities kind of near the beginning of the meeting. And there was some beginning discussion about perhaps we could instead create a separate event for that. in a nice big space where everyone, all the family and friends of people could attend and it would really just be focused on them. Because I think we really need to think about, you know, if is the best way for us to find out, to make connections with our schools, to continue the, the, the, the, long-held process of different schools will come to each meeting and they'll do presentations or stuff like that because by the time they're all done and everyone's left and keep in mind a lot of those people it might be a burden for them to come right you know

145maybe there are kids that can't do that participation because of the the timing of stuff like that is that really the best way for school board to connect with our schools or do we need to you know find other ways that we connect with the schools. Do we need to You know, everyone has gotten so good at video presentations now and stuff like that. And, you know, what if prepare video tations that can be shared on our website, shared on the cable channel and shared with us, not necessarily within the confines of the meeting, because, you know, sometimes it's over an hour before we are in the old way that we were starting the actual process of the meeting. And that's an hour later that staff are getting home. That's an hour later for the

146people watching at home and things like that. So I'm just throwing that out there. I think it might be worth, you know, the changes that we had to make because of COVID. I think we might want to think about what might be worth maintaining, even when we're in an in-person setting. Are you still wanting to talk, Heather? Okay. Veronica, did you want to say something? Yeah, just really fast. I know I don't like to typically repeat what someone just said, but I just think it really bears repeating that Cindy brought up earlier and Ramey's bringing it up again now. We really truly have lost some significant talent of staff because the school board meetings itself were considered a drain on them. And I'm talking exceptionally talented people that it was a real loss to lose

147them. And they point blank. mentioned the school board. It's not an assumption like they shared in their resignation letter that the school board meetings was just too much of a drain on them personally and their families and that they were able to go on to other professional opportunities where evenings and late nights were not considered a part of the package and yet still could maintain their salary. So I just think we just have to be really mindful of like how late we start and how late we're keeping staff and like how are we doing to retain I mean I can't I don't understand how some of them can do it sometimes and then get back in the morning at 8 a.m. and then we expect them to put in a fresh day. And these are

148also leaders of the division who then not only are we asking them to work, but they're then leading teams and then making, you know, so the whole thing trickles down. And then you are also asking community members to, quote unquote, tune in because we want to be a transparent government. But especially most of our constituents, our parents, like I've joked before, like I feel lucky if like my kid. you know, leaves the house with two pairs of a pair of matching socks. And I feel like I've really won that day. So it's like to really ask me as a, you know, a working mom to then tune into like a night meeting for a few hours to try to siphon through what's going on. It's just, it's untenable. And then you add a 63% free

149reduced lunch rate school division and the PTSD and the stress and strain that comes from being low income. And then on top of it, one third of our parents don't even speak English as a first language. So to really engage is quite difficult. So. I just think I just want to reiterate and just thank Rami for what she said birth from a community perspective and staff and then on top of that I do think there you know like anything in life when there's a crisis like what is it necessities the mother of invention I do hope that the school division will continue and that we'll continue as a board to allow public comment to be made virtually even post COVID because another thing I just never understood is how are we asking parents to use

150their babysitting chip. And to, you know, which is really hard to get as a parent to get people to come and babysit your kids and then you paying someone on top of it an hourly rate to then fly into a school board meeting and then make a comment for three minutes and then head back out and figure out the parking and all that. So I do think we have a better shot in continuing to engage the community if we can continue with virtual public comments. So anyways, just wanted to share some thoughts and thanks, Rami, for your comments. I just want to say ditto. All right. Any closing thoughts? I want to tell you guys a funny story of a school board that I was working with the other day. And he's a new superintendent.

151So I'm just going to preface by saying that he's also a city council member. So I'm going to say that. And it's not in Virginia. And he basically said, it's a school board meeting. I will attend till 10 o'clock. If they want to go on past 10, they're more than welcome to do it. But I leave at 10. And I was like, how's that going over? And everybody was like, yeah, sure. Totally fine. I was just like, I'd never seen anything like it before in my life. First of all, most superintendents wouldn't leave their board alone at a school board meeting. So I thought that was pretty funny, but I think we're having new norms come about. Remy, to your point, you know, we're learning that we can actually be resilient, right? And we can

152still get the work done, but we're not going to ever go back to the way it was exactly. So we're going to have to figure out moving forward what some of those things that are good about virtual stuff. I mean, I know that a lot of nonprofit work that we do, we do education foundations as well. And we're seeing a greater number of attendance because they don't have to travel to go to meetings. So there's all sorts of. pros and cons, good SWOT analysis for all of that too. I wanna leave on what Lori said, but I also just wanna squeeze this a little bit. I also just think it's really helpful again with staff retention to consider virtual presentations of staff as well. Like again, like I just think there's things that we're learning

153that we can continue taking in terms of engaging community and retaining staff. I mean, if they could just go home, get on with their evening, but then... Right. Tune in for that 10, you know, oh, it's 10 o'clock. Okay. I I'm going to be there. I'd got to be there for that 15 minutes. That would be a game changer. I'm sure. Yes. Yes. Especially for retention. That's a great idea. I was so impressed with the meeting. There was what, 20 speakers? I mean, and it seemed to go pretty seamlessly. So y'all have got it down now and it seemed to go really well. Not only just staff, but people from the CDC and the health department and all sorts of other presenters. So yeah, good job on that. It was not painful to watch at

154all. All right. Thank you for coming to this event. Appreciate you guys. I got nothing to say, but good night and thank you. Thanks, everybody. Good work, guys. Thank you, Lori. Thank you, Lori. Thank you, team. Good night.