Ann Arbor Energy Commission Meeting 7/12/22

001commission and as chair i'm calling this meeting to order i am participating from my home in ann arbor i want to welcome everybody to the july 12 meeting of the ann arbor energy commission this virtual meeting is to affect social distancing to mitigate the spread of the covid19 virus we will conduct this meeting similar to in-person meetings we're all forgetting what that's like commissioners during roll call please indicate your current location during the meeting please remain on camera camera just as you would be visible during in-person meetings also mute your microphone when not speaking public comment will be via telephone only to speak during any of the two public comment opportunities please call one of the two following numbers eight seven seven eight five three five two four seven or eight eight eight seven eight

002eight zero zero nine nine and entering enter meeting id nine five six eight seven one eight seven eight seven six this information is also available on the published agenda in the public notices section of the city website on the broadcast of the meeting on ctn channel 16 or att channel 99 and online at www backslash watch ctn missy would you please read the land acknowledgement i acknowledge the land the city of ann arbor occupies is the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the anishinaabe and wind out peoples i further acknowledge that our city stands like almost all property in the united states on lands obtained generally in unconscionable ways from indigenous peoples the taking of this land was formalized by the treaty of detroit in 1807 knowing where we live work study and recreate does

003not change the past but a thorough understanding of the ongoing consequences of this past can empower us in our work to create a future that supports human flourishing and justice for all individuals thank you for that reminder if you would take the role call that would be great absolutely and christopher's um chair merch game was an excellent model just remember to tell me where you're calling in from so i can add that to the notes commissioner mccomber um calling in from my home in ann arbor achar murski yes calling for me ann arbor thank you vice chair cleveland garcia uh president colleen from ann arbor thank you councilmember briggs here in ann arbor house member radina here in ann arbor commissioner kerber i'm here and calling in from lakeland washington it's beautiful commissioner peck i'm

004an aunt i'm in ann arbor but i am also a fan of mount rainier yes you are i love that uh commissioner juno you're from ann arbor commissioner smith calling in from ann arbor commissioner zittleman here in ann arbor oh and then absent i have commissioner levin mccoy mckaney and conan i'm just gonna make sure no one's in the waiting room chris mccoy indicated that she is uh in washington dc and unable to join us she informed missy and me of that in advance so before we move on i'd like to recognize two [Music] commissioners first of all edie um is going to be moving to washington dc and uh i wanted to thank you for your service not only on the commission but also representing us on the environmental commission and i was wondering

005if you would share with us who you're going to be rubbing elbows with in washington dc and if we can call on you when we need your help of course um also i will be continuing in my role um with the national wildlife federation um just anticipating the general transition and opening of the capital and so forth um and my partner also got a job in dc so that's the impetus but yeah um hope to stay in touch with everyone and thank you all for all the great work congratulations and we welcome a new commissioner today um alex zillman and alex why don't you introduce yourself to us and then we can also go around very briefly in a couple of sentences and introduce ourselves to you yeah i am a recent graduate from the

006university of michigan with a major in public policy a focus in intersectional justice and i am really happy to be here and get involved in making ann arbor a more energy efficient place excellent where's your hometown oh it's bedford michigan it's like 40 minutes southeast yes yes so i'll start uh i'm an ann arbor native um attended u of m left for graduate school moved back in 2015 um after retirement and i've been involved in environmental issues in general uh since then including serving on the energy commission since 2016. larry you want to tell them bill about yourself i'll just go through as you appear on the count or on the on the screen i'm larry kerber and i am currently doing solar development primarily commercial but also residential and i'm a almost a lifetime

007resident of the state of michigan growing up just north of ann arbor and living in ann arbor for literally the last well since i went to school here in the 70s so a long time council member briggs yes i represent the fifth ward which is on the west side of ann arbor um and i've been liaison at energy commissions since um we started in 2020 and though i served previously on energy commission maybe in 2007 or something like that so a couple of stints on the commission um i work for a local non-profit environmental group called the ecology center i've been there for gosh over 20 years and i have this is the second commission i've served on i've been on the energy commission for a while now since 2003 or thereabouts um and before

008that i was on the parks commission uh for about six years um and i've been in ann arbor for over 30 years juno introduce yourself welcome alex um my name is edie and i have i'm also a resident of michigan um lifelong resident i'm from the flint area moved to ann arbor for graduate school um i've served on the commission for a year now and i work for the national wildlife federation um councilmember rodina thanks i will be very brief because i've had coffee with alex a number of times to talk about here um so i will actually just say about alex that if any of you want to talk to him in depth about issues extending well beyond energy commission he has a ton of great ideas and so i am excited for him

009to join this group great uh commissioner smith my name is tree smith i am a director with guidehouse a consulting firm and i primarily focus on utility clients uh and touch a range of topics including energy efficiency renewable energy as well as most recently my focus in the mobility or transportation electrification space um and i am also an ann arbor native up for school and came back and have been back ever since um it's a pleasure to meet you alex commissioner calvin garcia hi alex it's really nice to meet you and welcome to the commission um i am currently the vice chair of the energy commission i've been on the commission since 2017 i uh come by way of um local advocacy efforts for uh solar power curriculum in the schools uh installation of solar

010into schools way back before there's the big installations going in and also um being a business owner um in particular uh in the area of transportation so transportation uh zero zero to low emissions transportation beginning with my biodiesel days back in the early aughts and then now with uh eb electric vehicle charging systems and uh really looking at how to help folks uh who live in multi-unit dwellings you know develop solutions for their eb charging needs so it's really nice to meet you um it's i've heard a lot about you so when we were looking for um for the new candidates and um i look forward to working with you you uh commissioner overbank hi alex uh i am a climate scientist um and the dean of the school for environment sustainability at the university

011of michigan and i grew up in southeast michigan went away for a couple of decades and i'm back happily back so alex uh i will reach out to you and schedule an orientation so that you have a better sense but after tonight's meeting you will be 80 oriented um but we'll we'll give you an opportunity to to talk with us uh offline and um answer any questions you might have and um if you're perplexed about something that happens tonight you can talk to us then so again welcome from all of us so next uh on the agenda is approval of the agenda i hope everybody's had a chance to look at it um hopefully it's not a real heavy night tonight do i have a motion to approve the agenda as posted motion from commissioner

012mccumber in a second from council member rodina all in favor say aye and raise your hands i anyone opposed so it passes unanimously um next is approval of the minutes similarly can i have a motion to approve the minutes or are there any well let's take the motion first and then we'll ask if there's any changes emotion to approve the minutes in a second please so moved by commissioner mccumber and seconded by commissioner juno any recommended changes hearing none all those in favor of approving the minutes as posted please say aye and raise your hand and anyone opposed and i see everybody in the affirmative so we're all set so we are now at the point for the first public comment i will read my spiel um this is an opportunity for members of the

013community to speak for up to three minutes if you are watching on ctn please call 888-788-0099 or 877-853-5247 and enter meeting id 956-8718-7888 this information is also on the agenda in the video feed staff city staff will select callers that have raised their hand one by one using the last three digits of your phone number in order to electronically raise your hand to indicate your desire to speak please press dar9 on your phone and you will hear an automated message or announcement that the host is allowing you to speak when speaking please move to a quiet area and mute any background noise please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments caller ending in good evening this is tom stahlberg and i'm calling from 1202 traverse street in lower town in ann

014arbor uh you have an item on your agenda tonight that i would like to support and that's for regards to the robertson development uh the apartment trail in duvarn uh i know you have yet to uh discuss and debate some of the details of it and uh so i won't go into all the details but in because they might change but in general i am supportive that uh resolution a little background on me for you alex some of you know me i've been in the real estate business for 30 years i used to develop subdivisions i got out of that a long time ago i got into renovating old homes a lot of them are duplexes uh and i am intending and preliminary plans to get back into developing uh multiple units some additional duplexes

015or town homes uh or both um i cannot imagine me building something new right now that would not meet the intent of a20 that would not meet what you're looking to do with that resolution in general i'm in favor of what robertson brothers is proposing they have a mix of different housing types at that location which i think is a good thing and there's certainly no reason that mix of housing types can't be environmentally sustainable we have the technology now we have to do it i do not see how we're going to meet our 820 goals by 2030 if we keep building buildings new buildings but we have the ability to make them more sustainable and we don't do it that puts us in a big deficit for everything else that we're doing in our

016efforts i've been on the task force with landlords and tenants for our existing rental stock figuring out how we're going to make rules to force us to do better than we are right now and to meet the a20 goals and we have the ability with our certificate of compliance that us all rental houses need to enforce certain rules and to bring us up to a higher level it's a little scary for a small business like mine uh because if we don't do it we don't get our certificate of compliance and we can't rent our property out but i'm on board however scared i am about it uh because we have to do it we don't have a choice so you're we're going to get there if every single place we can we find ways to

017make things better building large subdivisions town homes homes rental properties a combination like robertson brothers we have to make build them sustainably i'm very disappointed with the state and our tc1 mass resulting because it did not do what we needed to do in terms of construction there we had more leverage we've given millions of dollars of wealth to the property owners there we could have done it in a different way that would have used their great wealth uh as a trade-off for some sustainable building built into it embedded into it we we didn't do that so let's do it this time thanks bye thank you for calling in and sharing your comments on the resolution uh caller ending in 134. uh thank you dr staltz and chair mursky ken garber 28 haverhill court um yeah

018my comment is also on the village resolution really glad to see this now some people are conflicted about placing this kind of condition on housing with 80 000 people a day commuting into ann arbor we're desperate for new homes of all types should we hold housing hostage so to speak to climate action after all housing avoids vehicle commutes and saves on gasoline which is of course a climate benefit okay a few points about this first of all it's not much more expensive if at all to go all electric last month chair mursky cited research his own in the state of pennsylvania's that there is no cost premium for highly efficient all-electric buildings this is michigan not pennsylvania so it may cost a bit more here but we're in 2022 our global carbon budget for a

019livable future is vanishing heat pumps should be standard for all new construction not really housing versus climate you can and should be both the village if it goes with gas will have a large negative impact using industry figures for michigan average household gas use with a conversion factor that takes into account upstream methane emissions these 484 homes will produce about 6 400 metric ton co2 equivalent emissions annually that will raise our city-wide residential emissions from burning gas by 3 percent just this one project at 6 400 metric tons every year for the next half century now let's consider commuter emissions avoided assume that one person a day for every one of these 484 units is currently commuting an average round-trip distance of 20 miles that's 9680 miles a day or 2.42 million miles a year

020prevented at 30 miles per gallon the village will save eighty thousand dollars excuse me 80 000 gallons of gasoline a year that prevents just over 900 metric tons co2 a year in emissions so your commuter savings are just one-seventh of the 6400 tons you emit from burning gas and furnaces not a good trade-off this project will still be a net climate disaster if we hold the line on electrification i'm confident robertson brothers will do it there is precedent in june 2020 several planning commissioners called on the valhalla glenn apartment project to go all electric and valhalla with its 450 units 454 units quickly agreed i'm pretty sure we can repeat the success next tuesday with the village the next step will be changing our codes so we don't have to fight the same battle every

021two weeks thank you i look forward to the discussion to tonight's presentations and i thank you for all your work thank you can we thank you for calling it a caller ending in 1 9 4. hello commission this is three to mitchell calling um i'll give a disclosure here that i'm a member of the environmental commission and i serve as vice chair i'm calling for myself tonight though because this is an issue that has not been addressed by the environmental commission um i want to say that i am really pleased to see the resolution that you're considering tonight it is the direction that we need to go in the future and um obviously the right period of time to do this in the sequence of events to do it along with the zoning to require

022the electric electrification um in addition to the points that have been made by the other callers another point in support of electrification rate will have its own carbon cost so we should at this point in our climate crisis not add to the carbon emissions by allowing installation of fossil fuel infrastructure that will be with us for a long time so build it right the first time set the stage with the zoning and the requirements and avoid future retrofitting to electric power and effective energy efficiency i'm really pleased that the resolution will include um recommendations that relate to standards um so that there's there's the standards for the type of heat pump i hope that there will be some addition to those of insulation so that we have our factors that are also result in less

023use of energy that's helpful to all of us as i may well know um so i hope that will make this an outstanding opportunity for our community um and for additional items that you're discussing tonight with respect to the age of zero plan i hope that will will start including measures of progress that we can all see and use as a community so that we know we're going in the right direction so we can make choices among ourselves as members of the community as businesses as as ngo groups etc that support the direction that we need to go to support our climate or our environment so that's it thanks very much good night thank you for calling in that's mr murski that's it okay great so um we're now into the uh crux of the

024agenda and the first point is uh presentation on the community climate action village i think jason welcome jason thanks for having me you did there for a minute when i went over to co-host um great to see a bunch of old friends uh nice to meet a few of you tonight um jason jason served on the energy commission as liaison a couple of years ago some of us were still on the commission so well the old timers thank you it's a yeah it's an interesting interesting place to be back to you um uh yeah so i my day job is at the huron river watershed council i served on city council for a little while um prior to that i was on the environmental commission for quite a for a number of years and when

025i was on council i served on the energy commission um so great to be great to be back and amazing to watch all of the the work that you all are doing and what you're pushing forward so thank you all for your service um i also serve as the chair of the local sierra club group um and a number of those hats overlapping i'm helping to promote the 820 millage which will be up for a vote in november so i wanted to give you some background about the the millage itself about millages in general um in case there's any confusion it's a bit wonky and then just a little bit about where we're at in the process when i was on the environmental commission and as a council member i helped to ensure that missy's

026position was created i helped to identify the funding that was the start of the office of sustainability and so there are quite a suite of interesting goals for me personally and professionally around this millage as some of you may know the funding that base level funding that's a rebate from the county will come up for renewal in a couple years and so we're looking at a potential for a loss of the base funding for the office of sustainability and we want to make sure we get ahead of that timeline as you know i don't think uh i i elected to not pull any slides together about the impending climate crisis that we are in the midst of i think we're all familiar enough with that and familiar enough with it um getting drastically worse month

027after month and so the more we can equip all of our constituents all of our friends and the uh and the city itself through the office of sustainability to fight this work is um obviously critical so i'm just going to presume that we're all in agreement about that um i wanted to start off um with a couple thoughts about um millages in general so the way that millages are created in michigan is there's a suite of laws that predicate how the millage can be written up and what can be put on the ballot it has to be short and sweet so that it's fairly legible and it can't be particularly predictive in its implementation and specifically related to this knowledge because it will be a 20-year millage we wanted when we were crafting when the

028council members were crafting um the the millage language we they wanted to make sure um that we weren't super predictive in what misty and her staff could and couldn't do with those funds say year 10 because we can only imagine that the fight that what we need to work on now and what we need to work on 10 years hence will be very different scenarios so um missy if you want to pull up my powerpoint i would appreciate that that is to say the way that the government puts millages and all politics into play is less than perfect and i'm going to come back to this point repeatedly during our conversation today i think it's very very very important for us to not let perfect be the enemy of the good in a lot of

029environmental situations and climate change work is certainly one of them um here's our website for the advocacy arm of this millage renewal obviously this is separate completely from the government it's part of the the millage campaign that's being done simply by residents and um and other folks folks that are on the team including myself from the watershed council in the sierra club mike garfield from the ecology center a couple a few other past council members a number of students from the university of michigan um and we've hired a couple consultants um to do um to do some work because it will be a long a long arduous end of the summer for us moving on missy i wanted to review what is actually going to be on the ballot um this as you read through

030it if you haven't already is again moderately specific but not nearly as specific as some might want again that's part of the the process of millage creation and so with that city council there mike and my mike garfield from the ecology center myself and a number of other people really pushed on the council members and i appreciate their responsiveness on this matter um to include as many aspects of equity inclusion and related issues for renters and other folks in our community to build in as much support for them as we possibly could which is a number of the things that i'm going to highlight in our conversation today missy if you'd move on please i'm going to show you two different um supporting documents that council passed along with this resolution to put that ballot

031language on in november and i've highlighted a number of things that i want to call out um that mo in in the in the assumption that we all know that folks that are middle class and upper class and white folks who drive their electric vehicles and can pay to put solar panels on their houses that that's amazing that we have a lot of folks in town that are like that and we have lots of people in town that we need to support that don't have the capacity to do those things folks who are in rentals are disproportionately removed from the ability to do those things or join into those initiatives not everybody has the ability to buy a fancy new car and i was really happy that the council members went the extra mile to

032try to include some of those aspects in these resolutions related to the millage and so as you might as you might and probably know um expanding composting and recycling um to multi-family units in the downtown area has been a craw in um for for folks in those areas for a really long time and the work that the osi has done to improve those things has been great but as we all know the biggest impediment to say composting by all of our residents has been that we haven't had year-round composting the lack of consistency there and the confusion that happens with inconsistent service providing is is the biggest hurdle we have for increasing composting um the second point i wanted to make under number b is um that that obviously you guys have been involved in

033the solar and geothermal conversations but more impo just as importantly that that is called out is that it's also called out for specifically lower income households this is the language that council will that council put forward with the millage that will be staff's marching orders uh if and when this millage passes can you go on to the next slide for me missy number c there again supporting energy efficiency and weatherization obviously those are things that we're all into and i assume you guys talk about at every meeting or every other meeting but with this resolution they also supported uh this specific number of 40 percent going towards lower income residents again this millage proposal that's going to be on the ballot is general but these points that they're making here in this resolution those pass

034along at the same time will be the guideposts for staff and staff's work point d is the neighborhood and community resilience centers which we've heard a lot about in the news these have obviously been located specifically at locations that have um the past ones that osi has done have been working primarily at locations that service under resourced communities and community members bike lanes crosswalk infrastructure in neighborhoods and pathways these are all things that we all use but they disproportionately benefit folks without cars and so point after a point here we have things that support our community in general but also support those who are most in need in our community and i think that's very important missy would you go on please the last couple points on this this document that council passed um the

035bulk by discount initiatives we've all seen that for solar but reducing the cost of barrier and the um the barriers to entry for programs will help get those second and third phase folks who are interested in all those initiatives to join those of us who have had the ability to get solar or geothermal in the past electric vehicle charging stations i think is the splashy thing that we see about in the news all the time and i think it goes without saying that that's going to be part of this work but the at the the component that goes to multi-residential um locations to benefit folks who don't own their own home or work live and work down and live and work downtown is very very valuable uh the last couple points there um this one's

036actually my favorite council direct staff that the the millage would be used to the fullest extent possible to advance equity um i'm going to come back to a couple other points in a moment but this all this language is future looking right this is council directing future staff and future council members that this was our intent when passing this millage and that's that's where we're going with this um there's still a lot of questions about does the office of sustainability does the staff have the capacity and the dedication to do that work and i'm going to get into that in just a moment missy would you go on to the last point the last slide thank you this um attachment was also passed with by council with the resolution to put this vote on the

037november ballot this was some rough estimates of where the office of sustainability um thought that the biggest chunks of money would be going in the first couple of years of this millage they're big round numbers and the total is very large but what i wanted to point out is these strategies more or less um line up with the things that i just brought up and the dollar amounts are not disproportionately different for the ones that create more equitable uh life in ann arbor we're not underfunding some of those components just because they're helping certain portions of the population again this is staff's direct council's direction to staff for the first few years and after that the process is going to have to be iterative missy would you go on to the last slide again um

038request before i forget about it jump onto our website at any point we have a get involved in an endorsement page i'm very happy that a number of you have already endorsed the millage thank you very much some of your names are on the website and some of them haven't gotten on there thank you to one of the folks who was on the call for um your endorsement today i appreciate that um let me see you can stop sharing the screen and i'd like to make a few more points before we move on um so there's this component of the millage that's forward-looking this is council's best direction towards where we want to spend this money this millage would be would raise obviously just shy of seven million dollars a year for 20 years that

039gets us less than 200 million dollars the 820 plan is roughly a billion dollars so we're going to need more money we need a lot more money than we're then we're bringing in right now um missy told me in a conversation sort of recently that they're getting close to a one-on-one fundraising match like what the base funding that we bring in and the funding that they've been able to bring in in the office with grants and other partnerships and stuff and i i firmly believe that their staff will continue to escalate that number and so if we have if we're bringing if we're bringing shy of um two million dollars a year in i'm sorry 200 million um and we double that or triple that we start to get somewhere within striking distance of getting

040the the 820 plan done um so that's a lot of crystal balling right we don't know what's going to happen in the future but council has in my estimation guideposts that are reasonable allow the staff a flexibility to do things as they need to but also direct in a way that's meaningful and so the question then begs can the staff pull this off will the staff pull this off and i just want to go through a few of the accomplishment the accomplishments that osi has had because to me watching what missy and her staff have done their heart is in all of that work you know you know she is in it for climate change and energy but the equitable component is the most important is equally as important if we're not saving everybody why

041would we do the thing in the first place so um just a few wins over the last couple years just pulling out of some random report that the city creates thanks missy for making reports love it um obviously the staff has had a lot of awards they've done tons of education so much education so hundreds of community engagement outings right but they created the load of moderate income solar access program the range replacement program and if you're not familiar indoor air pollution is disproportionately harmful to people with lower income and so the range replacement program helps people with lower means more than it does others um the aging and place efficiently program pilot and then evaluation that happened over the last couple years so helping our older um citizens and residents um the bike discount

042buy program helps everybody the ten thousand trees program that's had a huge splash like initiative after initiative i love the ambassadors program not only because they let me come and talk to the cohorts but because that's redoubling the capacity of the staff by creating literal ambassadors out there in the community i already mentioned the neighborhood resilience funds hubs but it this is this is really important to me like that we are creating resiliency hubs in the places with the communities that need it the most right when my power went out and i was out of town i was able to call somebody get somebody to hook a generator up or toss an electrical cord over my over my um fence but if you don't have a place to go what what do you do when

043you don't have electricity or air conditioning and it's 100 degrees out or access to food and so helping those communities is is critical um specifically if you're not familiar north side community center bryant nh and the ann arbor senior center um what else did i want to talk about there i think i think that's enough for right now um a few early early endorsers that we had just to give you a list of folks um obviously the citizens climate library climate justice folks a number of university groups um including the environmental consulting organization and live zero waste the sierra club the ecology center national wildlife federation the united way of washington county viridian of course um in the county democratic party executive board this is a this is an issue as we all know that

044crosses all sectors and everyone should and could be on board with the success of in the need here um and so that's all that i wanted to start with and i wanted to have plenty of time for q a um if folks wanted um and if missy wanted me to cover anything else um we would love your support as individuals as representatives of the organization it's it's dicey it's inappropriate for you to be directly supportive but as individuals and residents um in whatever other portion of your your life that you you see fit um joining joining the team in whatever way that you have time or financial means would be um greatly appreciated and in uh when we have a kickoff event in a few weeks we'll ask you all to invite anybody you know

045uh to come and join us because it'll be it'll be a grand party knocking on doors or delivering literature if you haven't done it it's fun missy did i miss anything that you wanted me to cover this is your show uh yeah i'm i'm happy happy to turn it over turmeric to you and facilitate any questions or discussions uh and i actually the one thing i will say is we are standing up a website we're working on it right now from the city's perspective just so you know jason identified this too the city can only be fact-based right so i can only tell you very clearly what our budget looks like because i have a two-year budget i can tell you what the language is but everything outside of that has to go through the

046committee so uh i'm not being coy if i'm or being stern i'm just staying within boundaries here it's it's it's literally the law and so we have to be for for everybody on on on the committee you have to be really careful to differentiate your city work with your advocacy work um and the staff particularly so um i have the luxury of working for an advocacy nonprofit and so i don't have to um but you can change hats you all can change hats um and and take off your committee hat beer be a resident so thank you very much jason um tell us again or maybe share very briefly so people can write down the website where uh we can get information where we can uh enter our endorsements etc or maybe if it's very

047simple you can just read it off to us it is a2 the letter the numeral climate action and i believe we got command work so it doesn't really matter there it is it's highlighted and everything okay thanks missy great so hopefully everybody notes that down and then we'll um i i um like to ask you if i made one question first and that is um i know that um there was an faq that was developed is that on the website and is that under resources or where is that to be found um i do believe that is uh well almost all the material under the af from that original faq is on the website in some different places yep so i'm just pointing out because um in your advocacy work for this that's a really

048good place to go because it answers a lot of basic questions um about millage and spending and so on and so forth so um we already have council member briggs fighting at the bit here so i'll recognize her and then anyone else that has any questions thanks and thank you for the presentation i appreciate it and appreciate the advocacy around this um and my question is actually just um super basic it's around the language uh of the ballot proposal just um i know that sometimes this comes up um the the the sentence in there that talks about you know from the state of michigan you know this can be used by this may be collected but i'm sorry i don't have it in front of me so i'm trying to remember what it says something

049about it you know it may be collected by the dda or brownfield or uh let's see in accordance with state law portion of the village may be subject to capture by the dda or washington county brownfield redevelopment authority i know that's sort of standard language but sometimes it comes up i just wondered if you maybe could just speak to the inclusion of that language i'd forget council member adina do you remember why that's included it's something to do with the um the fact that they can pull taxes separately from the city right so they can they can pre-poll if if there's a tif in an area they can pre-pull taxes um and it's something to do with the nuance of that and i can't remember what the legal component is there i'm sorry and i

050can look that up and send it back to you if you prefer if you know where to find that information that would be great i would certainly welcome it i know it comes up sometimes and i couldn't quite remember the answer to myself so okay thanks if i may piggyback on that question that would be a great addition if it's not already there to the faq because it's bound to come up um given that it's right in the language of the uh of the ballot language so great point thank you great great great uh great input others folks i know that some of you are are going to be wild supporters of this initiative but you still might have a question here there i have a couple if you don't maybe that'll tease out some

051other comments um so i'll start with mine first of all can proceeds from the millage be used to hire staff i believe so that's also my understanding too because i think millage's fund other activities where also staff are involved too yep um so so folks know there are the city has hundreds of income streams um a suite of them are millages the millages are actually fairly simple because it's the language in the millage that is the mandatory component and so what what we see here what is on the ballot is legally binding the accompanying council council resolutions are binding to staff and they they look like really really different things other money that comes into the city like grants um cannon can't do all sorts of things also this it is our presumption that this

052money or a vast majority of this money is going to go through osi but that is a staff decision um we we can't micromanage in that way right from from the outside um but um yeah we presume that a number of these things will be uh capacity related capacity building related and that's in some of that will be internal to the organization thanks um i'll i'll continue with my questions and hope that others raise their hand um one thing uh i'd like to point out i'm having read the use resolution and um i hope my recollection is correct is that the use resolution um it outlines an approximate allocation of spending um it's not absolutely binding and it's not something that is going to hold um the city um two five years 10 years 15

053years from now because things will change and so if you get questions to that effect it's not that because the use resolution says we're going to spend one million dollars roughly of this on circular economy and zero waste that we will spend one million dollars on that in um you know year 19 of of of proceeds of the millage um correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding and interpretation yeah the use resolution so the last document that i shared that we looked at very briefly with the dollar amounts on it um and i i can um i can get missy the um it's all in legistar anyway um that's where i pulled it because it's that's the official location right that's what council passed um in that document that was passed with that

054it would be the first year of implementation um and so that's the guiding guiding those are the guideposts for the first year and there was a lot of politicking about not just like how much but like how as you bring up mr mursky how long how far into the future we wanted that to just like state how far what staff was going to be doing and and i think wisely council decided to set forward a goal for the first year i would have been happy for one or two years but like that's that's just silliness to get into that level of detail when we're talking about the international climate challenges right like who cares um i mean we need the money to go to good things that's really critical and i think we've set up

055enough backstops here that get us that um but yes that that document that was shared does have some really rough dollar amounts for those programs that i sort of talked about and i think that goes hand in hand with the explicit statement that the 820 plan is a living living plan and it doesn't make sense for us to pretend to be able to foresee technological changes uh legislative changes and things like that out many many years and so if you get questions about that um this allows the city flexibility to spend this in the wisest in a wise way and i think it's also important to recognize um for everybody's uh education you know the the the city's budget is approved every year and also there are there are levels of approval for city expenditures

056and so it's not that missy is going to be given a pot of 6.7 million dollars and she can spend it any way she wants to oops you see they're telling you to go home um so this is this is um subject to appropriate overview by city council um it's something that we as a commission will probably have input on you know in in future years and it's also obviously subject to approval by you know missy's leadership structure so i want people to realize that anybody that's listening in as well as on on the commission if you get questions about that i'm missy i just wanted to add that i think that's a really great conversation that we've worked on well i've worked on a two-year budget for the first two years where there's much

057more clarity if it passes right about what we would do and if we had started normalizing that and an example just picking the very first topic topic around circular economy is the idea of getting to multi-family compost requires sustained funding right so we've had certain years where we've had a surplus budget where we could do it once but the hope that's that's an initiative that will need sustained funding for a period of time but there will be more up front to create it and then it's it drops in what will be needed going forward so that frees up more money to do something else in the system and so we've been working internally with staff in case the knowledge were to pass that we can move very quickly in setting up those kinds of initiatives

058same with transportation we worked with them to understand their multi-year plan and which projects aren't going to make it into the budget given existing resources that we bring forward bike infrastructure more pedestrian infrastructure that the millage would unlock capital for so just wanted to share that same same with the general theory we have much greater clarity in the first few years because we know what we have and we know what we don't have in terms of resources and then it it'll be a rolling cycle right other questions i have a few other comments and questions if not so i'm going to let you continue to noodle over your questions of your own um seu and municipal utility potential uses of millage funds yep um i think we're all all in agreement that diversified electrification is

059an important goal um and the the millage is not what was intentionally kept separate from that conversation like those need to be they need to be separate conversations building one to force a hand of another or to only work if one thing happens it is not does not do climate work justice um and so i you know i have my personal preferences about the the electrification programming but like that's completely separate from this millage and this millage would support that work if by nothing else support the office of sustainability's work in that but it could go on to support whatever that initiative whatever those initiatives grow into being also and it like miss we need the money on the table so that we can do the things right if we don't have the money to

060create those initiatives is going to be a lot harder to get there another comment jason mentioned the rebate from the county public um safety um uh millage and that i believe correct me missy and jason if i'm wrong the share going to climate action up from that rebate is eight hundred thousand dollars a year and as jason indicated that's going to be going away in another what's five or six years something like only two more years it's i think it's doing 20 i think the the vote is due in 24. so i'm not sure exactly the the how funding pulls through over time is complicated missy do you know when that would actually sunset i really hoped we had four years left so i will now go check uh and to clarify it's 40 of

061the base so it was 800 000 in the first year but his taxable values go up and down okay it's always 40 yep yep yep it was 2.2 million it was 40 percent of that 800 000 but then it's taxable values go up it could yeah it goes up but i think it's important my point was um unless we have alternative source and funding sources um we're going to lose that really important funding source for climate action and that underwrites a lot of mises activities and their staff and things like that so i think um as we advocate for this hopefully that people will understand that um the last question that i have um is i guess twofold um there is a ann arbor area uh um transportation authority millage that is on the ballot

062in august that is an increase of 1.68 mills for five years it's 2.68 total but one is renewing and this is an additional bill as all of us either pay property taxes indirectly or directly then this will have an impact on what we pay either in taxes or in rent and i'm wondering um what we can do to address people's concerns that ann arbor is becoming unaffordable and that um that yeah this this is something that ann arbor needs to do um so i'll just leave it there yeah and i think for my part of that like i've seen missy's wisdom in so many things obviously um but also very much in the ata is there to do aata's work and the city is there to be a good partner to aata and because they're

063different agencies we it's their decision to put something on the ballot just like the public schools um just like wisd you know we they all have they all have jurisdiction and that's that's appropriate and that's democracy um that's our version of democracy um that said um you know like i like i noted through most of my presentation i'm really proud that staff and council pushed to have this the 820 millage have a lot of equity equity related components to it and i think that's really important and i do agree like i just got my tax bill i agree that it's it's not insignificant um and and just as importantly as how we think about services and cost as as you guys are thinking about later on in this meeting and as many of the callers

064called in diversified housing that doesn't mandate uh car trips is critical for affordability and health and and this millage sets the city up to assist on those matters um and have that have you have the the capacity to do those things and to redouble those those things anyone else have any questions seeing none jason thank you very much i'll go ahead carly i do real quick um thanks uh yeah as far as like the interface between the electrifying buses and and the um aata millage um can you speak to that a little bit to explain that i'm i'm uh i'm intentionally not involving myself in the aata millage um and it's also not an area of expertise for me so i apologize um i don't know if anybody else on the call can answer that

065the millage is not about electrifying the transit our the the millage that i'm here to talk about nothing to that okay about it it's more about um i think route extension and primarily frequency of service those are the main things frequency and then extension of service so that it covers more times and makes it more accessible to yeah is there information about emissions though as far as extension of routes um and service i mean which is really important it's i i you know it's a value for sure for sure and there's a need for it but as far as like the the corresponding um increase in in emissions i mean how is that something that the city is like advising at on or anything like that i don't think that's something the ride wants our

066advice on to be canton so at this point i would say most information is going to be on their website and on their campaign website to learn more about what that millage entails uh and apologies i only know what i know that's pretty public too so i don't i don't have any i i don't know if because remember bridge you have any details yeah i'm just gonna say i know that in the long range plan um the way that the um the ride's millage it's broken up into five-year um millage renewal requests and so it incurred in in terms of you know if the millage is is adopted by it's passed by voters if it's not focused in on electrification of buses in the next five years it does have it i think in if

067i'm remembering maybe 20 40 time frame or something like that it's it's one of the furthest out kind of components in there in their plan and i know that they're i know they're bored in the past has um has wrestled with kind of the use of i think that's probably just a separate discussion for maybe not worth going into right now but um i think that there are folks on the aata board would be happy to or in their millage group they would be happy to talk about that item one of the questions i have that relates to um this conversation here with the climate village is the um transition or the modification of roads to um make them more uh bicycle or pedestrian friendly and how that affects the drivability in the city and

068how that then that would possibly increase the user the ridership for aata and then having them you know be driving around with vehicles that are highly polluting you know like how that all balances out that's just that's that's one of the things i'm looking at from a bigger picture all i can share from the staff perspective is that we regularly communicate with our colleagues at the ride and i sit on a propulsion study to try to help them figure out how they're going to decarbonize their fleet it is separate than the millage ask that they're going for and it is outside of our purview in in the city itself but that is an area where we are not quiet about the need to decarbonize that fleet if we're going to hit our goals and have

069offered lots of support including grant fundraising you know even in my own time to help unlock resources that are available today uh to do some of that work so we we stand ready to collaborate so there are a small handful of folks on the call that are part of advocacy advocacy organizations that's not an inappropriate place for us to go with our advocacy is to the right okay yeah i think that it's a kind of a complex like interaction interplay with with you have a city you know moving in a particular direction and then you have a separate organization whose actions could possibly be you know very counterproductive to to the efforts and so i just it's for me it's important that just like we could just talk about it and make sure that folks

070are really you know keeping these things in mind as far as the complexity and you know of of the different policies that we're looking at the different you know monetary commitments that we're making and we're having an entire city commit to you know whether they vote yes or no on it if it does you know pass then then then we have these commitments that we're following through on which we want to be as as as productive as possible you know it's all about reducing the uh the emissions right like how much co2 emissions are we are re-reducing and in the meantime you know there's other actions that are being uh taken that are uh you know going in the opposite direction so carlene i think the hope is that um as ridership goes up because

071of better service then vehicle miles traveled will go down and overall emissions will go down even if there is more frequent service and things like that the hope is is that by better providing more service more people will rely um on public transport transit and they won't be in their cars and things like that so the hope is that that that um makes a positive contribution to decarbonization um i the little that i know is that the main concern with within aata and with their board is the upfront costs and i know missy also is aware of this there's some recent outreach um to the aaata about the model that has been deployed in montgomery county maryland um to essentially eliminate upfront costs and apply which could potentially be applied to ann arbor so if

072any of you aren't familiar with that you might google um ev buses montgomery county maryland and take a look at that that agreement that was reached there and some of the people behind that have requested um to be able to meet with the uh in our area of transit authority people so um i i i wouldn't say that there um the millages is at odds with um the 820 plan that's speaking for myself and i'm not an expert but that's from what i know i think there's something to be said about so the office of sustainability and in the city in general has done a reasonable job over the last few years at electrifying the fleet and as we advocate and provide resources and infrastructure for the community at large to do so also it's

073easier for folks to accept those types of changes when it's been proven um to be a workable scenario here locally with your other with your sort of like neighbor peers or whatever and so that that that pressure is not inconsequential um but it definitely is not it's not a silver bullet yeah i do understand that it it this is something that it also takes time i do get that i totally do i just wanted to bring this up as something as a consideration and uh for for us to just continue to be aware of jason thanks again for your time thanks thanks for having me or having the conversation i really appreciate it it was really really nice to see all of you and and meet a couple of you great to see you again

074jason we wish you had you had here more often thanks okay uh we are now moving on to the next point in the agenda which is consideration of a draft resolution um and it was posted to legistar late yesterday hopefully you've had a chance to look at it ties to some of the comments that we had in the public input section maybe while missy is pulling that up i want to make a few comments first of all i want to give credit where credit is due and that is to ken garber um ken uh emailed me yesterday and indicated that one of the things that he was working on was trying to get word out about this development and his concerns that it wasn't clear whether or not it was going to be designed um

075based on the aspirations let's put it that way and the goals of the a20 plan and um so i had the idea of us considering a resolution tonight and trying to pass it and passing that on to the planning commission that will be considering the development next tuesday as well as uh then advising city council and i reach out to missy and in parallel unbeknownst to me ken drafted this resolution he sent it to me i reviewed it i made one tiny little tweak um that missy also tweaked the tweak and so what you have in front of you is um this resolution and just one one minor point um the planning commission's announcement for the meeting indicates that the uh development will be 561 units um there was an m live article in february

076that indicated it was going to be 538 units and it's my understanding that the latest site plan in paperwork submitted is now 484 units and so that is why the resolutions says at least units so um council member briggs i think you have something to comment on that i do and it might be helpful to just um and i'm not sure who's doing missy i guess you've got it up on your screen can you scroll down to the resolved clauses thank you so thank you so much john for um for bringing this forward and for ken i know this is um we've been hearing about this i think you know public commenters spoke to the importance of this this is an area where it can be very frustrating to be at we we don't have

077the tools that we would like to have as a city um because of the state building code to require the things that we'd like to see in buildings and so we're um we are stuck between recognizing that we desperately need more housing in our community that having folks that are living closer you know closer to where they um they work and um is is beneficial for our carbon neutrality plans but um what we can't do unfortunately or we would have is require it and so i think the hope was that maybe we've got this tool here because we're rezoning and so maybe we can provide to that as a condition and um i just want to say unfortunately we can't so that's called conditional rezoning and conditional rezoning requires that it can happen but it

078needs to be voluntarily offered by the developer so we cannot require it as a city as a condition that um they have to do x y or z within of um of this and so particularly um of this substance so yeah i understand the desire behind this i think there's still an opportunity potentially to pass a resolution i would just suggest that um it's gonna need to say what we some it's gonna need to be watered down a little bit essentially um i would recommend um if you still want to move forward with this and you know have a voice at planning commission and council but you might say something like resolve that the ann arbor energy commission urges the planning commission and city council to encourage all buildings in the village to be constructed

079of fully electric appliances um for space and water heating and for cooking um and then pull out we can't do it as a condition of rezoning that that next um so i'm i'm going to interrupt you just yesterday yeah so i would offer that as an amendment yeah what i would i would like to do first is have a motion that we consider the resolution a second and then once we have that then we will do exactly what missy has done and jumping ahead and recognize um the the modification um or the amendment um that councilman briggs has proposed can we have a motion motion to consider this amendment and seconded by council member mccomber thank you so much moved by commissioner peck and um seconded by commissioner mccomber and um so um and then

080i guess i would offer as an amendment to the existing resolution um yeah this language that would essentially encourage rather than work require it i wish i would like to require it and so missy um i think the language then has to be struck as a condition of rezoning and site plan approval so in kirk exactly that has to be struck out right and i have confirmed that this is the case uh further comments on our discussion um i'm wondering should we be thinking about encouraging all future development or something along those lines or are we going to with each development do this kind of thing uh commissioner or councilmember briggs and missy weigh in on this but we we can't do that um at least that's the current interpretation because of the the building

081the state building and energy code so there was some discussion about whether or not we could do a natural gas ban as has been done in california in many municipalities and in a few other places scattered around the united states but right now the interpretation is at least by some um and ken garber feels differently and we've talked about that with missy but um there's and i don't know if that's changing or not but um the few the senses that we cannot do something that would require it at the municipal level i'm not saying require i'm just saying here we're encouraging and we should be encouraging off future development in other words if you're a developer and you're saying oh i'm going to do something in ann arbor one of the things that's on your

082radar screen from day one is let's think about all electric no fossil fuel but we could we could change the language i mean it's already in the a20 plan um that uh essentially all development needs to be all electric and not burn any gas so it's imp implicitly or you could even say explicitly there we could add that language here again and say encourage that all buildings in the village and all future developments commercial and residential be constructed with fully electric appliances is that essentially what you're recommending that would be fine yeah just a process point um i think we're talking about a second a second amendment is that right or are you saying to this amendment because i don't actually think we have a second to debate it you introduced it but oh okay

083so do you want to you want to propose some language do we have to do that for every single um amendment well we have we should vote on the amendment and make sure that the body is comfortable with discarding this and highlight and add this this is the replacement result and i will second quantum member thank you okay so let's let's vote on this amendment and then we can take up a second amendment how's that so all in favor of this amendment with the possibility of further amendments um say i and raise your hands anyone opposed unopposed um the amendment passes unanimously um so we have a second proposed amendment which is i think the wording that council exude commissioner overpeck has proposed which would expand on this and do you want to um propose

084language and then get a um and now we can ask for a second okay how about um encourage all the buildings in the village as well as all subsequent buildings and and you know new buildings in ann arbor the city of arbor so do we have a second for that uh second by commissioner smith so this is a vote then to replace um not only the first or the original resolve clause but to replace the first amendment um all those in favor of this broadcast actually actually actually i would like to discuss this for a second okay yeah sorry sorry yeah please yeah thanks so and i and i see this as an i understand the point of this of um just sort of expanding upon the language i guess i would like to this

085starts for me starts venturing into the question of do we believe that building new buildings should be built if they cannot be all electric so we know that we have a housing significant housing shortage in the city of ann arbor there's immense pressure that has huge equity issues um considerations um affordable you know affordability issues and so we've got these these these various policy goals that that council is trying to achieve right now um and they we're really hampered with the fact that our our building code does not um does not allow us to require them and so this is encouraging um the city and assistantly city council i'm wondering if energy commission means this in the is directing this towards developers or directing this towards council i mean are you are you encouraging council

086not to approve new developments that aren't electric are you encouraging development developers to to recognize this crisis that we're in and voluntarily begin doing this so i guess that's my question for the around where i'm coming from is it all right if i answer yes please yes i mean that's a good question you know i just think that uh any more fossil fuel gas that is um is going to make our a20 pretty difficult the other point is that electrification the cost of electrification keeps going down and that what we're really encouraging and we're only encouraging uh both developers and council is that we're encouraging those two bodies to install what is likely to be cheaper and therefore more affordable for those who move in but you know if we have a20 as a goal

087by 2030 we can't keep putting fossil fuel in buildings it's just it doesn't add up commissioner kerber and then commissioner juno and then commissioner and councilmember radina yes uh well you know i i fully support this i i also have this ongoing concern about the way these buildings are being designed by the architects that really when we talk about um an appliance you're talking about something has a 15-year life whereas you're talking about a roof you're talking about something that has a hundred plus years of life and the way the roofs are being designed very often totally ignores the solar resource that's available to those buildings and again i can both support this and say this is inadequate in terms of the new housing that's being built here in the city all you have to

088do i take you for a ride around the city and show you buildings that should never have been built the way they're built and it shouldn't happen not in 2020 on 2021 not in 2022 and i see this going on and on and on until we figure out how to stop it so that's more of a just a general issue that i have um and i'm open to any comments so if i can elaborate on that i think larry and i had a communication on this it's making sure that um roofs are as to the degree possible are south facing that they're not interrupted with all kinds of dormers and things like that i mean obviously there's multiple considerations but that's what he's referring to when he's talking about solar access not being designed into

089the building right larry commissioner juno yeah um i guess to council member briggs's point but also you know seeing the value and and and to ken's point um on the comment earlier about you know not wanting to do this ad hoc every time this comes up i do wonder if maybe rather than using the all subsequent buildings clause we just develop this more as a template and use it as relevant um buildings are um suggested i think to council member briggs point there may be some situations where the equity and the housing need versus the size of the building and the need for whatever else might you know i don't know so i guess i'm just offering that as um i would support this amendment but i also do see the value and just really

090think of this as more of a template and being able to use this more quickly in the future for relevant um units thanks um kind of piggybacking off of what commissioner juno just said and and relating back to something councilmember briggs said you know i i think before because this was brought to us you know kind of within the last 48 hours here um and because i am generally loathe to kind of like writing resolutions on the fly at the table i i wonder if it would be more beneficial for us to stay focused kind of on the the village right now because as council members pointed out there there are some intricacies and some challenges in this i think we all agree in principle with our need to have you know all buildings be

091electric particularly with appliances i am thinking though even of a conversation i had with with jennifer hall uh once around you know some of the the state funding isn't always available when you know you don't have gas appliances if they're cheaper with it i and i i'm trying to remember the details of that conversation that happened you know six months to a year ago um and i would because of the potential trade-off that a broader resolution proposed suggests similar to to what councilmember briggs said about you know are we suggesting that if we can't accomplish these things we should not do the housing um i think it's important for us to make sure we take a step back and consider kind of all of the different factors that might go into that particularly around you

092know affordable housing where we might have outside grants or state funding or federal funding that might be coming in and what requirements that might impose upon us that that then require us to make some decisions on trade-offs and so um so i am i guess just encouraging maybe a little bit of caution around i would be hesitant to expand this without us having kind of a broader conversation with some expertise um from different staff weighing in uh commissioner peck did you have another comment yeah i'm i'm fine with this uh you know and i think we had some comments that are coming from folks who are much more experienced than i am in the ways of city government so uh maybe what we should be thinking of as a commission is producing some kind of

093guidance that covers these important issues and trade-offs uh and i don't i it's outside my expertise to really be able to write something like that but um i do know that with every building that gets built with fossil gas line coming into it we're moving away from our a20 and we're probably also condemning the occupants to higher energy bills in the long term even though it's expedient cheaper to in some cases to go with that fossil fuel now although with the price of gas right now you gotta wonder but in any case it might be better for us as a body to just step back and do exactly as what's being suggested and not make this more general and plan on a more a general guidance suggestion that's all it is for the future yeah

094i just wanted to offer as we consider this that maybe what we the the body as a whole if it's friendly uh considers the resolution that's more time sensitive which is about this development and then we work a few folks that are interested on a more general resolution that shares the sentiment of the energy commission which i think is more than just electric although that's a part we've talked about embodied carbon we've obviously talked about renewably powered and so maybe maybe that's something we introduce a future energy commission meeting is a kind of guidance for developers and guidance for council purest energy commission stance on what we hope to see in developments council member riggs i think that makes sense though i would i'd actually say it's probably worth the time this commission to wrestle

095with this issue um even a little more deeply than that we can put we can do a lot of encouraging up on the city's website and it's not it's except for those developers um they're particularly interested in this and then they hit certain blockades within the city around what makes it challenging to do to do some of this work sometimes but um is another thing i've heard but um i think that there's a lot of misconceptions um i think resources for developers would be would be very helpful i know some of the folks that i've talked um with um i i don't know that um they have the tools that they the knowledge that they need to recognize that they could do this and and not have it make the development um significantly more expensive

096so i do think there are there's a need for resources um i know that this is something that the planning commission wrestles with and the city council wrestles with um and so i think figuring out you know even if there are small steps and changes that we can make within code if we have any leeway anywhere we should we should take advantage of that but this is this is a huge issue for the city right now and one that we we often feel really stuck on so i would like to see us do anything we can to move it forward commissioner juno yeah thank you i was really going to say something along the same lines and just hope that we might be able to dedicate some time to thinking through like carrots and sticks

097and all sorts of tools that are within our our legal um ability here to incentivize this because i think you know at the beginning of this conversation we talked about that this already is reflected in the 8-0 plan and a resolution will reaffirm that but um will that you know change what's happening in in these moments moment instances so just i think it'd be well worth our time any other commissioners so if i may i'll weigh in um i'm fine with limiting this to the first amendment um i would encourage both the energy commission and the planning commission to wrestle with this and come to a conclusion quickly i'd like to remind everyone of ken garber's comments prior to our last meeting which using rule of thumb calculations and i think they're they're generally um

098directionally good um that projects that have been approved um recently completely offset all of the solar that is going to be going on solar buildings all of the solarized projects um by a factor of two or another way of looking at that is that it will also offset roughly one third of the lance landfill solar project if it goes forward so for all of the time that we delay on this um it's um having significant negative outcomes and uh yeah outcomes to the a to zero plan um i'd also like to remind everyone of mr garber's rule of thumb calculations indicating that there's roughly a seven to one emissions um difference between some a unit being powered um and let's see using heat from natural gas for water air and cooking um compared to commuting

099miles reduced so it's not like we're doing any great favor there i fully understand the affordability issue i've grappled with this in work that i've done for another nonprofit and i just like to share briefly something that i mentioned before and this is something where i hope we can bring someone in quickly to hopefully shift the paradigm that if housing is done that is all electric that is built to passive house standards that means very very tight and very well insulated envelope including windows that you can do that construction at an equal cost or at least no more than a penalty of one or two percent and for that you get a quieter building a more comfortable building a building that has much lower utility costs per per person this is the experience with multiple

100multi-family dwellings in pennsylvania and massachusetts i'm more than happy to try to get someone to speak um to that and in the end we're actually um providing tenants a more affordable and better living condition than if we approve cheap housing that is still supplied with natural gas so i i really think um you're you're absolutely right um those have raised the issue we need more education on this since it's the planning commission that deals with these issues we really need to get um these alternative paradigm shifting opinions in front of the planning commission and have those be challenged back and forth um and also be considered in the context of michigan versus these other states but i'm confident that um the general sentiment that we need to move to all electric buildings that with very

101tight envelopes that are very well insulated as soon as possible and that will benefit everybody also including affordability so um commissioner overpeck oh um commissioner colin garcia thank you uh i i'm just not quite clear is it that we're not gonna proceed with with this resolution at all or we're going to have further discussion at it in a future meeting are we going to just stick with the original um like more uh just with this particular project that start that initiated the entire um discussion the resolution tonight so we have one amendment that has been approved which is the resolved clause in front of us that's a mixture of black and red and we have a second clause that we have that has been moved and seconded but not voted on and i think the

102proposal that i'm hearing that or some people are suggesting is that we limit this to um just the village and vote on that um and if people agree with that then they should vote the second amendment down and with that we would most likely come back to this topic about applying to other buildings um and um if um they still feel that the second amendment should apply or the the yeah that should apply that the resolution applied to all buildings then they should vote in favor of this second amendment as offered by commissioner peck is that everybody else's understanding yeah i understand that better that's what i thought i was hearing and uh so the first is basically to approve it with that original amendment and yes i'm good with that okay so what we're

103going to vote on now is the second amendment which is in red the first amendment having passed um and uh as i suggested if you um vote this down then the first amendment will carry over into the full resolution and if you vote it down we will come back um as we discussed and just um have this as a topic in a future meeting so all of those in favor of the second amendment that would make this apply to all buildings raise your hand and say i i see only one eye you have to look at everybody else oh um larry bridget and um sharish so three people voting in favor of this all those opposed raise your hand and say i i misty are you getting i'm gonna stop sharing if you if you

104can be so kind just make sure i get this right yep um thanks everybody hi okay can i just repeat this back chairs um those supporting are kerber mccomber and smith yes and those against uh merski colvin garcia overpack briggs radina juno and settlement did i miss anybody yes okay that's it yep okay um i think we need now to vote on the entire resolution um so the resolution can you put it back up is um as it will now appear i believe in in black font everywhere yeah which is that this would be advising city council and planning commission um to encourage the village of ann arbor um be constructed fully electric appliances and then as sort of the next resolved that specifically um this high seer rating which is um i i looked

105this up just to confirm it it's basically um this is not something that's unachievable it's it's essentially best-in-class um electric heat pumps um so that those are the two things that we would be advising planning commission and city council to take into consideration so um we've already had a motion to consider the entire resolution and a second and i'd like to now vote on the entire resolution as amendment mended all those in favor of the resolution please raise your hand and say i i all those opposed it passes unanimously thank you and uh i would only end with um maybe council member briggs that um you and i talk about how we pick up the broader issues and where we get what i would hope would be more than one opinion weighing in on this

106at the same time so that we just don't have one person telling the commission's one thing and then have people in another meeting um with an opposing a a viewpoint and that we are not able to resolve that um in one meeting with hopefully both ideally maybe both planning and energy commissions participants yeah and we can talk about it more i might recommend um it's sometimes difficult to do a joint commission meeting of both commissions but i wonder if it might be possible to get i don't know if um sarah mills is still the chair of planning commission i think she still is um you know having her she has certainly a lot of expertise in this area as well um having her come and potentially kevin mcdonald who's our land use attorney um and

107talk a little bit about what are some of our limitations what are some of the things are being discussed this group could bring forward some of the things that are being discussed in other communities and you know there may be an opportunity to say begin you know figuring out um you know do we have any tools that we can bring more tools we can bring to the table um i know that this is something that we nobody is happy about um we just find ourselves in a very challenging place and i think it also applies to you know architects and the their field in general and what are best practices in architecture and what can we learn here in ann arbor um and developers that are developing here from potentially developers in other areas and

108what are frankly also regional differences too so great you and i can talk to sarah sometime that'd be great okay this meeting is lasting longer than we had hoped that no surprise maybe um so the next point on the agenda is a discussion on osi 2023 activities and opportunities and missy do you want me to um introduce the topic okay so um this was preceded some email exchanges um with a minority non um not ever not everyone on the commission about the uh the 820 plan and some of the actions in the a20 plan as well as the climate millage and um let me say first and acknowledge as we discussed we we i think all agreed and logged the fact that the plan is a living plan that we want to adopt best practices

109elsewhere that we want to apply lessons learned that we want to as carlene put it to me the other day fail forward um and we want to adjust the plan going forward and there have been a couple of people that have approached me from outside the commission um asking why in the plan if you look at pages i think it is 10 and 11 of the plan um i could share it later but i don't know if it's necessary if you look at the mitigation costs um by action in terms of dollars per co per ton of co2 emitted there is a range roughly from under four dollars per ton up to 65 000 per ton so there is a huge range in costs of estimated cost estimated and those are granted a couple of

110years old uh estimated costs of what it would what it would cost to to be able to mitigate um co2 emissions based on the various activities and just to put that into context um and i'm sure they were calculated on different bases but some of you may be familiar with project drawdown and project drawdown lists the roughly one i think it's 100 top um climate solutions and they also make a similar calculation and um almost all of their costs are in the hundred dollar range under a thousand dollars there are one or two that are in the thousand dollar range we have multiple um actions that are in the thousand up to as i said sixty five thousand dollar range so there's a concern from that perspective um also relative to um projected cost for

111carbon capture and sequestration um which is by the way something i'll just state flatly i'm not in favor of but the s exactly we're seeing comes down but just um i mean there are there are roughly 20 or so facilities operating and the estimated cost for carbon capture and sequentiation ranges significantly depending on how it's applied but it's anywhere from estimates and the iea international energy association estimates those from anywhere roughly to 25 a ton up to i think let's see 350 dollars a ton i've seen other um the world resources institute estimates um direct air capture in the range of 250 to 500 a ton so if we we are implementing actions in ann arbor that are costing three thousand dollars a ton five thousand dollars a ton sixty five thousand dollars a ton

112the question is is that a good use of taxpayer money and secondly is it something that we should be doing early on in the plan or is that something that we should be doing later in the plan given the high cost and given the fact that technologies may be changing um and then lastly um again this is um my perspective and i want other people to weigh in that our role is to not advise staff our role is to advise council on policy um and it's my view at least and i think there's at least a couple of other commissioners that support this that the best way we can advise on policy going forward is if we have a good understanding of policy as it's being implemented now and if it's having the desired effect

113in the desired outcomes and therefore um with with that under that understanding of current policy we can make policy recommendations going forward and again in my view a good the best way of doing that is we have a plan we execute on the plan and then we check the plan versus the targets that are set in the plan and the plan defines as most of you know there are assumptions in the plan there are indicators of success in the plan and there are timelines and um for implementing those actions and then i think the other thing that we also need to be looking at which we've discussed from um comments from uh ken garber and that is what are negative let's say offsetting impacts and what do we need to do to address those and

114also to essentially what our counteractions um to those so i i have a few leading questions and then i'll open it up for discussion and also for responses from missy my first question is we recently recognized that the 2020 greenhouse gas inventory had not been posted and that was recently posted and what i'm wondering and that was an anomaly because 2020 was the first year coveted and there were huge changes in uh people's behaviors question that i have is when will the inventory be posted so we can see where we stand relative to a somewhat more normal year um and then the the question that i'd like to pose for the whole group is should we be pursuing actions with very high costs as much as 1 000 times higher than the lowest than the

115lower cost like energy efficiency energy efficiency is roughly four dollars per um ton of co2 emitted compared to other things that are in the thousands of dollars range should we be pursuing pursuing those um unless they have really significant co-benefits and if they don't have significant co-benefits then should those be pursued outside of the a20 plan and be funded outside the z to zero plan so that's my long but initial lead-in on the topic and i open it up for others to comment and for them discussion john uh you can ask missy to respond first and then we're gonna follow is that is that what we're waiting kind of pausing for or um anyone can respond or comment in any order my so so my perspective is that missy and her team have more even

116though there's not a prediction for what is going to need funding beyond year one maybe year two that there is a sense of like a rationale of why the things are being emphasized now that are more expensive than other things that co that that cost less for mtc02 that's what i'm assuming and i think it would be great to hear like if i'm not completely off on this or like what's like yeah so there you go i'd like to like missy do you have like a broader like understanding it's like the reason that we're putting so much more emphasis on these things that yes like for the circular economy it's like oh my god this is so complex but we need to like really get on this immediately right now because in you know you

117know we're projecting in seven years it's really going to start paying back and and it's it's the most complicated thing so we need to put the most resources there now versus putting our resources on energy efficiency i i don't know so yeah yeah it's a good question so in terms of let me take the first one um john you asked about the inventory we're working on 2021 we just have a few data requests that haven't come in so as soon as we have them um actually we'll bring it to the energy commission oh i'll let you know as soon as it's live because i imagine that's been a recurrence you're our kind of first unveiling of that report so that that'll come as soon as we can get the data uh in a month or

118three months or do we have any idea we've been holding on data requests the last pieces for a while now so we could i mean we could force it and come early and estimate what that data is based on historical trends or we could hold until we get it i would hope that we're getting it in the next month but i yeah i can check in with thea and see i know she gave me an update when i got back yesterday uh that she's she's almost there she's just waiting on a few last lingering pieces so in the works um carlene to your question it is all of those things so we are working on 38 of the 44 actions in a20 right and we're working on others that aren't even in a20 like the

119sustainable energy utility right like that's not in h20 nor was telework in a20 because when we did a20 we didn't actually think we'd have high adoptions of telework but the pandemic showed that that was really possible so there's other things that are in play so the answers were we've got to kind of do it all and what we prioritize for funding and how we prioritize that funding that's more of an art than a science it's where we have interest where we've got appetite political appetite where we have staff capacity where we've got community willingness to step up like the ambassadors when they're ready to run at certain projects we leverage that to move that work stream forward as fast as we can and so it is um it's very very clear in certain areas that

120we have to be we have to be laser focused on energy we have to be laser focused on electrification but how that manifests does become more of the art in terms of uh i care a lot about heat pumps right in the transition of furnaces from heat pumps but the pandemic showed us the importance of that cooktop right from an indoor air quality perspective and so we pivoted to start working on range replacements because that was the time and that was the strategic opportunity that we had before us whereas when we created the work plan we thought we were going to focus on furnace replacements so as an example it's a it's a little bit of following where we've got momentum and opportunity and making sure we don't lose sight of where we're going though

121we have a strategy for full electrification we're just starting at a different point that i thought we would start in and that's okay because we have we have political and public support for that thoughts from others commissioner juno i think commissioner mccomber raised their hand first ah thanks um my question about the a20 plan is um how how old is it now um when was it approved two it's two years it's years old um i wonder if is there any plan for updating it because it seems as though these questions about what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we're prioritizing are going to come up on a regular basis so i'm just wondering if there's a provision for that yeah um i'll share my philosophical approach to planning which is it takes

122a lot of work to update a plan and we have to make a decision on if it's more important to have the words on the page be accurate or it's more important to have actions on the ground being implemented with limited staff capacity so we uh update it through kind of annual reports we've had council uh provide some guidance and we do have a governance structure for how we can revise the plan but overall it's held pretty strong and pretty true as a north star so that's a decision we have to make as a community um i am not going to advocate though as the director of the office to update the plan right now because we are working really hard on implementing actions so um you would be pulling capacity out we would have

123to pull capacity to do that and that's just a decision we have to make if that's the right play commissioner juno did you have something there too yes um i guess i would just i have not seen the numbers that break down the different mitigation strategies um at the cost per ton yet um i would be interested to but i i suppose we should add a few clarifications or or caveats before comparing them to some of the figures just for ccs or for other drawdown strategies um because these are of course costs being born by this city yet there may be cost benefits that are being enjoyed by residents that we're not able to necessarily um include in those figures and i think there's also um you know instances where short term higher cost strategies

124may over the long run not net out at that same price for um you know other avoided costs in the city down the road from electrification or solar installation et cetera so i guess before we um too harshly criticize any of the higher end strategies i hope we'd be able to also include those considerations around um who who's enjoying the benefits and and what are the extent of the benefits and then reflect that a little bit as well i have a point of clarification missy for my benefit maybe others as i understand it the costs estimated two years ago were cost to the city with a small c not to the city with a large c meaning the the city of ann arbor and that would be hitting the city budget but that would be

125a cost to um the the community at large is that correct okay and there's there's no no it also correct me if i'm wrong there's nothing in the plan that calculates a payback or anything like that for each individual action yeah so what we used was a social cost of carbon that we we used kind of in the investment portfolio we do have rois on some of the initiatives that are in our financial analysis tool that we did some things have roi and some things don't have rois in a more traditional sense but in the social cost department i mean all of them have a cost of action and a cost of inaction associated with that right commissioner kerber so i think this is mostly directed at missy and it's more in the form of

126a concern and maybe asking for some reassurance electrification obviously is an important strategy going going forward at the same time when you electrify something you're really taking money out of dte's pocket on the gas side and putting it into the electrical side and we all have been in meeting after meeting after meeting about how you know how how little progress dt is making and actually greening out the electrical supply so we're still talking about using fossil fuels even if we have more efficient electrical appliances if we have heat pumps and so forth for the most part people aren't using their own solar they're not using green energy and well we may have great plans for that in the short term 10 years dte is going to be continuing just to burn more fossil fuels so

127i just i'm just asking just for some clarification on how really what what is the benefit going to be for forcing this electrification at this point in time yeah it's a good it's a good question and let me take that from a different perspective which is from the economic case that what we we do a lot of analysis and modeling what we know is that you can't do strategy one or strategy two or strategy three which are three dominant energy strategies you have to do all of them right so you have to do efficiency while you're electrifying in order to to pull down the cost and you have to also install renewable energy and actually the economics that's when they start making sense when you stack those things together for an individual homeowner and so

128for us it's um while i may talk about electrification and join us at the electrification expo on friday at the farmers market from 5 to 9 pm we look forward to seeing you all there we always put the peas and carrots of energy efficiency in those conversations as we're talking about electrification because people are getting excited about electrification and we can't get people as excited about energy efficiency and so we may say that we're focusing on electrification oh but by the way we're bringing in that efficiency and we're connecting you to the solarize program and so the answer for us is the quagmire of it can't be just one we've got to figure out how to do it all and we have to continue pushing to clean our grid that's i don't think that's an

129a20 in any way shape or form that's meaningful is the amount of work we do at the public service commission right to fight for better regulations or the work that we're doing uh in lansing with our legislators and so like that's that's kind of like undertone of all of this work is changing the entire ecosystem in which we operate so that when we maybe one day i can't actually just talk about electrification because it happens to be 100 clean and renewable when you switch so i don't think i directly answered your question larry other than saying it's it i hear you that it's complicated and that is how we're approaching it is how do we come into the problem from one point but get get solutions that are much more holistic acknowledging that you as

130a consumer may be most interested in solar and that's okay i'm gonna start with solar and i'll lead you through the rest of the work that you need to do it's it's almost in my mind almost like a top view and a cost view i mean what i'm saying is that you can't necessarily save yourself prosperity what you have to do is to grow and that grow has to happen from turning fossil fuel generation into renewables i think that's the primary emphasis i understand all the strategies have to work together um i guess i would like to see more emphasis on the top-line view how to have more renewable energy as opposed to the the the peas and carrots if you will working really hard on that larry thank you i know you are absolutely

131and support you all and that yeah we can't argue with that um i just wanted to highlight though that um we want to send the right market signals and get our you know heating and cooling folks uh much more focused on electric utilities um you know and there is a hope that dte you know they're slowly changing we saw that consumers changed a lot faster you guys have all been around longer than i have and i am no fan of dte's pace here i think they're the biggest enemy of decarbonization in the state probably but the um nonetheless i think it's really important for us to be pushing for electrified homes and buildings to the extent we can and hopefully the power generation will catch up but we gotta act what we can and i

132think that's a message too anyone else i missy i'd like to offer up two and for our council liaisons i'd like to offer two two points of consideration first of all um the millage allocation has 1 million dollars going to solid waste i probably spend almost as much time on solid waste issues as i do on energy issues having served on the energy commission and being in the washington zero waste coalition and a couple of other groups so my friends there will not probably appreciate my comments but i i question whether we should be spending that much money on solid waste issues in terms of the two major issues which is year-round composting and commercial recycling um if the estimates are accurate and those estimates again need to be looked at again but before we

133actually spend a lot of money um sending trucks around to to do that versus the opportunity cost of spending the money to do something else again those two costs per ton in the plan are 65 000 per ton that's that's 10 000 times higher than many other actions and then three thousand roughly three hundred dollars a time for commercial recycling i know that ann arbor is deeply rooted in recycling and so i i know that this is going to potentially generate a lot of backslash but what i'm i i really want us to do and this is the thrust of my my my point is really have a rigorous process where we're rethinking what we're doing and we're making sure we're doing the right thing and we're making doing doing through the right things in

134the right order and i'm not sure that we shouldn't be spending for example millage funding on a lot of education around zero waste around circular economy and things like that but we maybe should be reticent about spending um a lot of money on specific kinds of actions like um increasing compost and recycling beyond where we're doing it right now because if it's not really generating a lot of savings in terms of co2 emissions the other thing that i would ask that you this is from me personally that you try to accelerate as much as possible is the benchmarking um or whatever the right ordinances are in terms of like time of market heard whatever the acronym is head have been three or four different acronyms that that ordinance as you know was an 80 ordinance

135um two and a half years ago and there may be political issues with realtors and the same thing with the green rental program with landlords um but these are really two important activities that are going to drive people to look at energy efficiency and electrification and these are really things that we really need to push people and i i know it's uncomfortable to be questioning and talking about are we doing the right thing but i really think those are two things that we really need to focus on and reevaluate going forward so i don't know the answers i'm just asking that we sharpen our pencils and we look at those issues in particular so unless has somebody else has something else to say um then we can close out the topic councilmember briggs i guess

136i would just like to affirm you know what you're saying i think it's important that we you know we are very clear about why we're doing what we're doing and and you know is it the high is it the you know and we're good about communicating it is certainly something that we hear from from residents about you know why are we focusing our energy and um and our resources on certain things and so we need to be able to explain it very well about um you know why we're pursuing certain certain things and and you know what the cost benefits are of our activities so i'm going to end with one one last comment just so people understand where i'm coming from in my my past professional life um i i was i led rigorous

137review meetings literally all day meetings where we would review every single aspect of a plan implementation plan was it delivering the right outcomes if not what can we learn from it if it was how can we apply those lessons learned to other things and i was subjected to those kinds of rigorous reviews traveling to germany and sitting in a conference room the entire day going over every single line item of our plan and whether we were executing a plan and why not and they're the the a lot of people believe that those are uncomfortable actually those kinds of reviews are absolutely in my view absolutely necessary to executing and delivering value to stakeholders whoever those may be whether it's in this case the city of ann arbor residents and property taxpayers or whether in the

138company it's you know whoever the various stakeholders are so um that's that's where that's the perspective that i come from and i realize that that's not strictly speaking um our our role but as i said in order to understand policy and make policy recommendations we have to understand how well we're doing and the best way of doing that is having a good understanding is are we executing and delivering the greenhouse gas reductions that we need to and if we're not how can we do that better so that's that's where i'm coming from so that's that's the bias that i have from 40 years of working in my profession so thanks for bearing with me so we are now on the downward slope um we have um an election so edie as i mentioned is going

139to be and she is she told us she's going to be moving to washington dc she serves as the liaison to the environmental commission and so we want to elect a new representative to the environmental commission and i'm wondering if um anybody would like to self-nominate or whether somebody would like to nominate somebody else for that role so environmental commission just like this one meets monthly it is easy i think the fourth thursday of every month is that correct it's at seven o'clock and meetings roughly last the same duration based on at least my experience is that correct yep okay so is anyone interested in serving as liaison just to know please do not use chat i haven't opened and it should not be so we okay so carlene is just saying that she needs

140to sign off she has another commitment that she has to leave for so actually she said she had to do it at eight o'clock so she stuck with us longer than she was supposed to thanks everyone have a great night thanks carlene so i'm willing i served as liaison for three years i'm willing to do that again um there's a lot of things that are near and dear to me but i don't want to take that opportunity away from somebody else if um they are interested see it as a way if they have passion for things in the environmental commission is there anybody else that that wants to i didn't see anybody else indicate an interest so i volunteered edie have any words of wisdom or positive experiences to share that might inspire someone to

141take this on yeah i think it's a great way to learn about other aspects i mean there is a lot of overlap with energy commission most of the time we had a lot of pertinent things to report back but um i thought it was great to learn more about a lot of things also depressing things like the bloom in the city but you know good stuff too so enjoyed my time so i would encourage somebody else to step forward um if they're interested correct me if i'm wrong but basically it's dealing the commission is dealing with natural features including even things like pollinators um so natural features like wetlands trees forests um the river clean air clean water um solid waste and of course with clean going back to clean air and clean water things

142like pfas and dioxane plume and things like that so those are the main issues but of course they also have an interest in climate and energy because it has a big impact on the environment so if there's anybody that's interested in doing that please step forward so i'm willing to do it um if if others agree otherwise uh we will be unrepresented and i think that would be a pity if we're not represented and i don't know um missy who's missing and uh noah ember moksha kendall and now carlene yeah right i don't know that any of them have have expressed an interest in the past um when we've had um elections so i mean so john i'd like to nominate you thank you for being willing to volunteer yes i'm willing to volunteer if

143i hear a second second from councilmember radina all in favor say aye and raise your hands all opposed maybe i should pose no i'm fine with doing it okay so edie thanks again for uh your dual service and again good luck um so we're down to osi reports um news for commissioners and work group updates um so missy you want to stay take the lead from osi sure so i'm pretty fresh off of vacations you're going to get what's like top of mind for me uh hopefully you all saw the uh year two report that we put out and i know we talked about it at the last meeting that's kind of the easiest highlights some things just to raise uh per the previous conversation i wanted to share that we are on a working

144group to try to establish standards for scope 3 emissions accounting which are upstream emissions largely from waste which right now in a20 the the greenhouse gas calculation is what's actually emitted at site so once it goes to a landfill or is combusted and we know there are lots of emissions upstream so we have a team that's on a national working group helping set those standards because we follow very strict reporting protocols for how we capture greenhouse gas emissions so just wanted to share that i expect we'll have an update to those numbers once we have a methodology that we can all sort of agree on across the country but just just wanted to show that certainly coming in the future and then uh just some highlights as i said before friday night we have an

145electrification expo it's the very first one we've ever done we have uh over 30 different vendors that'll be there to talk about all aspects of electrification rumor has it the mayor's handing out ice cream i know that rumor is true uh we have popcorn it'll be just a kind of fun night to come out and learn about electrification and really excited to get some feedback as we continue to support this work more broadly in the community also in the renewable energy side uh we did have a significant end of fiscal year push for projects at the city itself so we have a contract with homeland uh to do installation of solar at our park sites and that includes rooftops and carports with av chargers a pretty significant push basically every park that has a facility

146a major facility not just a gazebo is getting solar and then council also approved a ppa with enerlogix to do solar at a handful of additional sites that are a little bit larger like our engineering kind of ish sites if you think about water treatment plant wastewater treatment plant uh and so combined that's over four megawatts of solar that we'll be breaking ground on uh here shortly at the city which is i'm pretty excited about it'll be about 20 more ev chargers coming into the system and we'll have our first car ports uh so really exciting stuff at least from where i see we'll be able to see it touch it feel it and then council also approved in that suite of work our next two resilience hubs so we are working right now on

147the bryant community center which is super exciting given all the work in bryant and then the senior center which actually is mostly electric anyway so we're hoping to transition that building to fully electric have our first 100 carbon neutral uh building within the city structure so we continue to ship away those kinds of things uh and as soon as we get those electric garbage trucks i'll let you know because we're gonna have uh show and tell uh when those those come out but they've been ordered they're back uh back ordered but we'll have them shortly there is i'm confident a lot more that i'm just kind of missing uh at the moment but uh rest assured work did not stop while i was away and uh we're oh we're already running so lots of good

148stuff happening excited to fill you in with a little bit more cogent of a response next month electrification expo is at the farmer's market from five to nine five to nine yeah that's right so you can get dinner it'll be ice cream from what i hear then and there's food trucks so you think you didn't fill a food truck right and get a heat pump yeah um any other updates council commissioners that's memphis i think it might be helpful to um sheriff um folks may have may have heard this but um at our last council meeting we um mentioned that moving forward a nomination for energy commission um somebody who um wouldn't be representing dte but was an employee of dte council and the mayor heard pretty strongly from the community some concerns around that

149appointment and so we have thanked that individual for um for volunteering but the mayor did withdraw kind of pull back that nomination so um the nominating committee will be be meeting again and i'm sure you'll hear more news but i definitely always encourage you your friends and colleagues to to apply unless they work for gt i i just for for those of you that may get questions on this um remember the bylaws section 5.1 and the bylaws require that anyone that has a conflict of interest that they recruit themselves from discussion and voting on an issue and so um i i think if if you talk to people and they're in their uh asking why we we and i speak for myself and um there's a group of us that that review um applicants and

150then make recommendations those go to the mayor's office and then he makes the final final nominations that go to city council um people need to realize that um any any employee and this applies in larry and you may recall that larry has some refrain from discussion and voting on some issues where we've talked about things that potentially would have an impact on homeland his employer and the same would apply to anybody else myself included or anybody else on commission that if there is a conflict of interest you need to declare that conflict or somebody else can raise it and then that person would have to refrain from discussion and from voting on the topic so that that's important that the community understands uh that we have that provision in our bylaws any other updates uh

151updates um i think carlene i don't know if she has anything to talk about with the lexication i'm not aware of anything significant i know missy i think they were working um together with former commissioner hookum on coming up with some draft framework for street side charming um is do you know anything about that you've been gone for several weeks so i don't know that you have anything to mention no i don't have much and i'm not in the details of that anymore either so i won't even attempt to do that so um with that then we move on to the last couple of points public input items for the next agenda so think about that and then we'll adjourn so um for public comment this is again an opportunity for members of the public

152to speak for up to three minutes um please call 888 788-0099 or five 877-853-522 four seven and enter meeting id nine five six eight seven one eight seven eight seven six this information is also displayed on the agenda in the video feed and missy will select callers that have raised their hands one by one using the last three digits of your phone number if you want to speak raise your hand electronically by pressing star 9 on your phone and you will hear an automatic message that the host is allowing you to speak in the order that people then raise their hands um when moving or when speaking move to us to a client area and please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments call our ending in one three four thanks

153dr stelton chair mursky ken garber again just a brief comment um thank you so much for approving the village proposal as amended thanks especially to commissioner briggs for pointing out that conditional zoning is not allowed that was my ignorance but it's still true that planning commission has discretion over rezoning petitions there's other issues with the village for example robertson brothers is proposing more than three parking spaces per dwelling unit which seems to me very over parked i'm just an interested member of the public i don't know how these things get negotiated if at all but i did watch while valhalla glenn and then lockwood senior living originally came in with gas both required rezoning and they both ultimately agreed to go electric in order to gain commission in council of approval i have to believe

154the city has certain leverage with the rezoning how does it use that leverage i have no idea how that works but i'm pretty sure the city is not helpless in a situation like the village so thank you again for weighing in on this it can only help i'll be at the planning commission public hearing next tuesday will my comments and your resolution turn out to be exercises and futility maybe i hope not we'll know pretty soon thank you all again sincerely for your great work and we thank you for your comments and for enlightening our conversations thanks ken and that's all cher merski very good okay agenda items for the next meeting suggestions potentially maybe fingers crossed uh greenhouse gas inventory uh anything else missy carlene and i meet a week in one day before

155the meeting to set the agenda and we have a couple things sort of in our pocket i'd encourage all of you to reach out to missy carlene or me if something comes up um where you'd like us to consider it um or if you have a speaker or something else and one thing that we might consider doing is taking on this issue of electric buildings and affordability and things like that and possibly getting a speaker for that at the next meeting or an upcoming meeting any other suggestions okay thank you very much everyone sorry we hope to get done by 8 o'clock but um maybe you can blame me for that so thanks very much and it is uh 8 35 the meeting i declare the meeting adjourned have a great evening and by the

156way oh one thing um i just have to share this with you dte it was on social media is buying ice cream for everybody for free at blank slate and so a group of us arranged canvassers um i was there from two to three today or two to 3 15 3 30 handing out sheets to everyone that was in line and everyone that was sitting around eating their uh their ice cream cones and telling them about the other side of what dte is doing and how they are one of the 50 dirtiest utilities how they rate a 22 out of 100 in actions to actually execute against their long-term um greenhouse gas reduction goals there there's travis has got the flyer that we handed out so um travis did you get your ice cream already

157someone else sent that to me and said there are people here telling the other side i think global warming melted at all well that that was the that was the image on there so washington dairy has solar and it's been doing a whole bunch of energy efficiency work so yeah absolutely absolutely but you might deplete dt's budget and enjoy an ice cream cone and talk to other people online and tell them about your work on the energy commission and give them another view so missy you should call your family and you should meet them there for an ice cream cone on the way home so meeting is adjourned have a great evening everybody see you friday hopefully thanks again edie you