001Good evening, everyone. I'd like to call the special meeting of the Charo Regional School District to order. Will you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Let's pause for a moment of silence, please. Thank you. So thank you for being here. It looks like Tyler is not going to be here this evening. Hi, everyone. Hello Thank you all for being here from the public looks like Tyler is not going to be here tonight And it also looks like Laura Chapman is running a few minutes late. But with that being said the meeting must go on and first item on our agenda is Discussion and
002vote for the approval to expand the relationship with Troutman Pepper Locke to include any real estate so i'm going to turn this over to the superintendent and mr zenyon and um karen grandy is here also our bond council if we need karen um miss grandy to weigh in on anything related to this topic so i'm going to turn it over to dynamic duo I sent everybody out the letter from Troutman Pepper and Locke so you understood what the the terms would be and what we're looking to do I briefly explained to the necessity for school construction subcommittee that there's only so much we're able to do without without a legal counsel so I'm gonna let mr. Zinnian sort of hop in and explain the need around this request so there um when we started looking
003for land it very quickly became apparent that Without an attorney, there are pieces of land that we will never have access to. I've made multiple calls on two properties that the district is very interested in and realized that I'm calling attorneys who are not returning calls because I am not an attorney. So, you know, and that's just a matter of... secure in the land but then once we do have a piece there's no way that myself or the school committee will be able to negotiate the closing of it without an attorney so Greg can I just interrupt for one second so just to put everything in its context this is regarding land for a site for the one new elementary school this is for the unified elementary school we're clearly looking for a piece of
004land 27 to 33 acres so um I went out and started looking to see who would be our attorney that would specialize in land deals. And Karen and John both recommended Charles Rogers. The good news is that he's already in the firm with Karen. Karen has been the bond attorney since the early 90s for Charoho. So there is a long relationship there. My knowledge. With Karen and the Charo Act, I think she knows it better than any person present in this room. And that's helpful. I will tell you that the fee is a little bit more expensive. It's definitely not the cheapest, but in the long run, it may be the cheapest. When I had a conversation with Charles around this, he made it very clear to me what he does in an hour. Most
005land attorneys will take two. So if you have someone that's billing you by the hour, it may seem like you're getting less because they're cheaper per hour. But in the long run, this is all he does. When you Google him, the I-195 land transaction will come up. Very big deal in Rhode Island. He closed all that. So we're not in a position to have someone. that can learn on the job for this. We need a piece of land and we need it soon. So I am in negotiations with a couple landowners currently and I am at a point where without an attorney, I don't know how to proceed. Ms. Grandy, did you want to say anything regarding Mr. Rogers and his expertise and have you worked with him before and maybe just give us a
006little bit of background on? him and his expertise. I call him Chip. He goes by Chip instead of Charles. He has been working in land use for probably Close to 40 years. I have been a law partner with him. He's been I joined the firm. He was already there in 2006 and I have worked with him actually a lot on the I 195 matters because it's a quasi public corporation and I do government law and he does land use and so, you know He's been part of the development of all of the parcels in 195, I-95, I have problems saying that. Also has done a lot of other land use around the state for many, many, many years. So I recommend him highly. Again, he's not the least expensive real estate attorney you're going to
007find, but this is a big project. It's an important project, and I know he can do a great job for you. So I think it's important to point out that you recommended Mr. Rogers and then John Anderson also recommended Chip Rogers. Correct. Okay. Karen, excuse me one moment. I just have a question. Sure. Yeah, go ahead. Would the fees be part of the soft cost? Yes. They're built into the bond issue, yes. Yes. Okay, thanks. Diane and Larry. So our, like John Anderson's firm does not do real estate? No. They don't do any of that? They're not. It's not their expertise, education law. Education law is their expertise, but. Land acquisition is not their expertise, no. I think if John felt comfortable doing the work or having somebody in his firm do the work, he
008would have done it. Correct. Okay. And so we haven't really looked into any other firms that would be less expensive, correct? You don't have to do an RFP for legal. That's one of the caveats in the law. Okay. Because of the expertise that comes with it, your lead can be at will. So, for example, if you hire Mr. Rogers and something happens and you don't like it, you can immediately remove. any legal counsel that you hire, but it allows you to make sure that, for example, you know, John Anderson, we called John, here's where, you know, we're getting, we have some questions. He's like, we really need to make sure you get, that you do your due diligence, get the right information. I would contact, and he said Charles Rogers. And then Greg said, I'm
009going to reach out to Karen, see who she thinks. And she said the same person in the email that John said. It was Charles Rogers. We were like, oh, that makes that easier. So two people said the same person. Okay. but in the end like that's where john you know even jackson we talked with him who was our building committee lawyer and he said while he does it it's not his level of expertise but they all can do everything it's kind of like right right here doctor but specializing it mr rogers has much more uh so because of the recommendations you didn't feel that it was necessary just to even look at any other firms right correct because a lot of districts this is where you know one most of them have their own land
010and they don't have experience Okay, okay, and I guess you know I'm reading over the the the Memorandum and I think the one concern I have within the memorandum is that you know, it does have a fixed fee it's not supposed to exceed 35,000 and then in the Ending of it the small I small print I call it if in if the if the negotiation sites are more than one or if there's special terms or ground lease, the fees would be adjusted according after consultation. I'm concerned about that. Okay, where those fees could go. We're looking at $35,000, but obviously things can change. So what happens if that occurs? What happens if that $35,000 turns into $100,000? I mean, we have to really... Well, it would come back to you. So the fees would be
011adjusted according to the consultation. So if what he's saying is if... So somebody wants to donate land has different laws and different requirements than someone who you're purchasing land from right? Right and I I understand that but it's a It's so what he's saying essentially is $35,000 for a pretty standard traditional Transaction it will be dealing up front with multiple potential sites if you get Very far down the garden path years three-quarters of the way done and then a deal falls through for some reason Yeah, that's the kind of situation where? It's unforeseeable. It could end up being more expensive. But as long as it's a fairly standard Not Strange hooky weird covenants sort of transaction. Well, that's yeah, unfortunately, you know this is rhode island right and so that's the disclosure there yeah and
012and i understand you know and like i said i just i have my concerns with the expenses that it could end up going quite a bit more than what we had anticipated and i guess the only other thing i'm concerned about is is where we stand um if the bond fails Just going to put it out there. You know, what happens? What happens to all the money we've invested into the attorney fees and everything they've done if the bond fails? It's just like your last stage one and twos. You lose that money. You lose the money. So we could be potentially losing anywhere from $35,000 to... However, more expensive it could be. You already lost about $2 million in stage one and stage two applications that nothing came to fruition. And I understand that. I
013understand that. And that's why I'm looking forward at everything. Like, I want to be able to, you know, see something, you know, and anticipate that it could cost us a lot more. So I just want to have that understanding out there. Larry? So, Larry, we've got Linda and Laura. Well, it looks like we're putting the cart before the horse here. We don't even know what the bonds go to pass We don't even know the parcels of land that you're looking at are even suitable for building How come we didn't know about this when we voted on to go with this one school I Mean, it seems like we're jumping jumping So when you voted to go to one school, I'm pretty sure you knew you needed 27 to 33 acres. Correct. I'm very sure that
014it was made very clear that none of that would come from the campus land. Right. And how come we didn't know about these plowshares or land you were looking at at that time? So I've repeatedly said, and I will continue to say, if you want me to negotiate land publicly, good luck. If I start talking about the current pieces of land that I'm looking at, you already have landowners that think the school system is very wealthy. Can you tell us what lands you're looking at? If I publicly tell you what lands you're looking at, we're negotiating in public. And I would tell you it would make it very difficult to share a deal. Mr. Zanian has requested, and I actually just spoke to the chair prior to this meeting, that we have an executive session
015to discuss negotiations. But to his point, you need to understand where the land is. They're not even going to accept our Stage 2 application without the land. So we can't even go forward. We don't even have a bond to go forward with if we don't have land acquisition. So it doesn't have to be finalized by the application, but we have to do reviews of land. So Mr. Zanion, once you made the vote, he's been out and about trying to find information. The concern has been we have legal, they won't speak to us because we're not attorneys. And we don't even get to see all of the land available because they don't have to post it. It doesn't have to be. It can be private. Well, you can do a Google search. No, not if it's
016private. We've learned that, too. Well, you can do a Google search, but they're not necessary. A lot of them are in ownership of corporations, and when I call, they have no interest in speaking to me. Yeah. You have to beat we have to be able to show ride that we have One at a time one at a time Gina are you finished? I just want to get because we have to be able to do this site assessment You can't complete the site assessment in stage two without the land acquisition Larry I just think we're two years ahead of our time here Linda Linda Laura and then Craig City Council Chambers and City Council Chambers and thank you chair um i guess i just want to there's two things i want to comment on mrs miss
017taft's you know uh concerns i think one is um there is a um there is a committee a subcommittee that's going to be overseeing this so i think if if it got if the if the money's got out of control or the cost got out of control it like um gina said it has to come back to us so there's some oversight there's secondly we are again karen made the point we are getting reimbursed for City Council Chambers Realtime Community Development Grant to soft costs, so there would be some money coming back I guess 65 whatever the percent is now we come back, and so I guess we. We don't need to be as concerned, I think, as maybe you are. Well, I think my concern comes from if the bond doesn't pass, how much
018are we going to be losing? I've been there, done that. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. So, Linda? That's okay. Thank you. We've been there, done that. I mean, we've lost some money, but we need to move forward. We have to move forward. We need to do what's best for our kids, and we need to build the school. Craig, Laura. Or did I say Laura, Craig? Laura and then Craig. So with regard to the, I'm losing my voice, the proposal that was sent, when he said that he has, that it's $35,000, and that's basically going to cover all the closing costs, and then there's incidentals. Does that include if you have a potential seller who has multiple plots or multiple, has his land already subdivided? Would that be based on each subdivision? Like that $35,000, you
019would have to close on each individual one, knowing that we have to purchase multiple, like so many, so much land? No, it would be one $35,000 fee for irrespective of how the land is subdivided. Okay, so even if there's like multiple owners within the same piece of land? Correct. Okay, thank you. Greg listen folks. This is this is the process we have to go through It's not gonna be given to us Yeah, we got we got up. We're gonna take a chance But the top it all off is I'm hearing from two people who didn't vote to go forward with anything and you're finding Constant negatives in an innuendo. So you know what? Please come up with something concrete legitimate And then, personally, I'll listen to it, but this is... Respectfully, I think what I
020bring to the table is legitimate. That's your opinion. I got my opinion. Exactly, and we all are entitled to it. Okay, guys, come on. See, see, chair, chair. It's as simple as this. I understand, Greg. You allowed her to respond. I didn't say anything when she was speaking, but you allowed her to respond, and then you say, come on, guys. You lost control. I did not lose control. I did not lose control, and I... take offense to that. So we have a very important decision in front of us. Are we going to bicker like fifth graders or are we going to get down to it? So if she has an opinion, if you have an opinion, if Linda has an opinion, we have to be respectful of everybody's opinion. Come on guys. And ladies and
021gentlemen, come on. I make a motion to approve. I second. Okay, so before we vote, I don't know that this was actually published on the Secretary of State's website. Angela, is that right? This document that we have in front of us? No, it doesn't have to be. Okay. So I just want to read this for the public so the public knows and that there's a record of this. So this was a memorandum sent to Mr. Zenyon from Charles Rogers, who is the attorney, the real estate attorney from... Troutman Pepperlock dated November 10th regarding Cherahoe Regional School District proposal for representation in connection with acquisition of real estate. And the memo says, the Charoho Regional School District, known as the district, is interested in acquiring a parcel of real estate as a site for a new
022regional elementary school. Troutman Pepper Lock LLP proposes to provide legal services to the district in connection with that acquisition. Those services would include negotiation, if applicable, of a term sheet. negotiation of a purchase agreement, advice with respect to title and survey matters, in parentheses, including subdivision if necessary, close parentheses, attention to closing of the acquisition, and all other related services. We would propose to provide these services as a fixed fee, not to exceed $35,000. If negotiations for multiple sites are involved, or if the seller has unusual requirements in parentheses for example a charitable contribution or a long-term ground lease close parentheses our fees would be adjusted accordingly after consultation with you and then Karen SD Grandy was cc'd on this memo so we have a motion and we have a second doesn't look like there's
023any other further discussion so all okay Laura go ahead is it the the memo that was sent to us is that an actual contract i would say we already have an engagement letter with the school district we would amend that engagement letter to include this work but um mr zenyon just asked us for a one-page proposal to present so we would we would amend our engagement letter you already retain this firm for your bond council so legally they can Rewrite that to include this correct, correct Okay, so the language in there about the it covers additional services Would that be spelled out within the more formal contract? Yeah, we would we would add that language that specific language to the amended engagement letter Okay, so that there's no surprises for what would be included in
024the 35. Nope. Okay. Thank you And before we vote, I just want to point out that I did ask the superintendent and Mr. Zenyon on Friday if we can get a proposal in writing about, you know, some sort of language. And I appreciate Mr. Rogers sending something forward so that our committee could have something to review and react to. So I think that that's the right thing to do as we are trying to all do our due diligence. Okay. So we have a motion and a second. All in favor? any who's opposed Larry any abstentions abstention yes you're abstaining mm-hmm Diane's abstaining okay all right thank you for Thank You Karen thank you very much have a good evening thank you so much okay where's my agenda okay next on the agenda discussion and vote
025to revise the superintendent's evaluation process so this was an agenda item that was put forward by a number of people and I just want to give some context around this discussion for the school committee members if that's okay and just to sort of frame this conversation. So I did write a few thoughts down and for the purposes of the public too I think we need to give a little bit of an update as to why we're at this point of the process. So before we begin discussing this important agenda item I want to provide some context to frame our conversation. During the June 17th school committee meeting Tyler Champlin requested a future agenda item relative to a more formalized review process for the superintendent on July 7th So following that meeting Tyler sent an email
026to the superintendent to Angela Brazil and myself with more specificity around this topic with suggestions Now this was from Tyler's email with suggestions to one, create a subcommittee with two members from each town to put structure around the superintendent's goals, help with setting those goals and identifying metrics to measure those goals. So this was the language that was in Tyler's email. Two, have the evaluation process involve staff feedback to be reviewed by the school committee. Three. Have the evaluation process include a community feedback component. Four, have the superintendent give an update on her goals and progress toward those goals in March. Tyler felt this update should be its own special meeting. Five, the process should include a formal written evaluation with a scoring rubric that all members of the school committee would be responsible for
027completing. Tyler specified that the rubric should include not only academic progress, but also include quote soft skills. At our July 15th school committee meeting, there was a robust discussion on this topic where many members of the school committee weighed in. Laura Chapman and Tyler advocated for a subcommittee to be formed to guide us in this process. Jess Purcell advocated for a full committee to be in essence the subcommittee. So her point was the full committee should be in essence the subcommittee. Mr. That was not my point. Well, I rewatched it today. It's our regular business, not to be a subcommittee, to do our jobs. Right. Our regular jobs. So let me finish my comments and then you can weigh in because we're going to have, I'm sure, a long discussion on this. Mr. Luzon said,
028made the point that we have to, excuse me, Mr. Luzon made the point that we evaluate the superintendent all year long. Both Jess and Laura suggested an agenda item that was put on the August agenda to discuss this further If you recall this item was tabled because Laura was absent at the August school committee meeting During the July 15th meeting superintendent Picard made I'm sorry I need to I also rewatch the meeting and Tyler said I have one point point of order Can I just finish my can I finish and then you could talk as much as you want? I don't think for other people So I want to tell you how I felt about what he said. You didn't just say point of order Okay, what is your point of order probably point of
029order just continue on with one at a time, please? That's all Well, I don't know just So Jess your one is because I would like to finish I want to make a clarification about what you said because I also rewatched the meeting Tyler didn't just say Laura's not here Table it he said Laura's not here and I want to talk about I want to have more thoughts processed around this I've changed my thinking about this of course. Of course. He said that I mean I'm not gonna say word for word He one of the reasons why he tabled the discussion was because it was Laura's part of Laura's agenda item It was your agenda item and it was Laura's agenda item on the August 15th agenda. If you look at the August 15th agenda, it
030says from Jess Purcell and Laura Chapman. Right. No, I know. That's right. Yes. And that's one of the reasons why it was tabled. That's not what I was saying. You're deflecting from what I said. I'm not deflecting at all. What I said was you said that he tabled it because Laura was absent and that was it. And I explained that there was more reasoning that he said in that meeting. That was it. Okay. So if I can finish, and you could certainly correct me if you want to correct me, because that's fine. Okay, so during the July 15th meeting, Superintendent Picard made a very important point for all of us to consider. And Gina said, quote, what does success look like for the superintendent? And what does success look like for the district? Unquote. Ms.
031Picard stressed that this is not always clear from our body. Whatever we decide tonight, that must be our ultimate North Star. What does success look like for the superintendent and our district? I hope we can all agree that the end goal here is to improve and professionalize this process, make the process more inclusive, so that every school committee member takes part in providing the superintendent with feedback. That feedback should be guided by a rubric, in my opinion. This is one of the most important responsibilities of the school committee. Tonight, what I see are three options before us. Number one, deciding whether the entire school committee is part of developing this rubric to evaluate the superintendent as Jess advocated. Two, deciding whether a subcommittee will develop a rubric to evaluate the superintendent as Tyler and Laura
032advocated. Or three, keeping the status quo and keeping it like it is. But let me be clear, regardless of what we eventually decide this evening, every member of the school committee must take an active role in evaluating the superintendent moving forward. The superintendent deserves that. And I want to stress, this discussion tonight is not a job performance discussion and it's not about politics. In our July meeting, Mr. Luzon referenced that the current climate within this body is political. This is not meant to be a political discussion. It should not be a political discussion. This is about working collaboratively across the aisle to identify what does success look like for our superintendent and this district. Moreover, this discussion we are about to partake in isn't meant to be a criticism of the way the evaluation process
033unfolded earlier this year. This discussion is not meant to criticize the superintendent in any way, shape, or form. I will not allow that as the chair. Again, this discussion is to determine whether there's consensus around how to best move forward with one of our most important responsibilities, evaluating the superintendent. This isn't about Ms. Picard tonight. This is about the evaluation process and improving it. When the superintendent succeeds, the staff, students, and district succeeds. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Yes, I hope so. My fellow members, let's engage in a respectful discussion. After our discussion, we will need a motion and a vote on how to move forward. Is it going to be a full committee putting together a rubric? Is it going to be a subcommittee putting together a rubric? Or do we
034stay status quo? If the majority votes to establish a subcommittee, then I'll ask for... Well, then we'll have to put something on the next agenda to talk about who would actually serve on such a subcommittee Thank you for your attention and with that being said who would like to Start can I make a motion for the full school committee to develop a rubric for the superintendent evaluation process? I saw Karen's emotion So your motion is to for the full school committee to develop a rubric to evaluate the superintendent based on prior materials hint given to us Okay, so we have a motion and a second. So do we have discussion around that? I think it's like just said this is our job. We hire fire the superintendent. We need to evaluate her and I think
035it would be beneficial if every voice was heard on the committee not just I mean I know that we're all gonna get an opportunity to evaluate her but I think we need to have the whole committee work on the process okay Laura I think that because the it would have to regardless of whether it's a subcommittee or a full committee it would still have to go to the committee regardless of what happens and you know I'm not necessarily in favor of doing the full committee just because I think that it can put burden on other people but I do think that it's still it still allows everybody to give their own input and that should really be the primary goal. Anyone else? Jess. So I know I know you said you know explain some of
036what folks said in the meeting but I would like to reiterate what I had previously said in July. Which is that like I said, I don't I don't agree with the formation of a subcommittee or the use of a special meeting. To evaluate the superintendent is 1 of our most important duties as a public body. And I think we need to. Be able to fulfill our duties together during regular meetings that have been scheduled in advance. Um, I, like I said, in my motion, I do agree to a scoring rubric as long as the evaluations are not filled out anonymously. It does appear that this is the 1 thing that's been discussed that there could be consensus on from the, um. Board of Trustees Meeting, Ms. Picard did share some of the evaluation process framework
037documents with us that are already in use. I do think that the evaluation process has a lot of information available to us. One of the things I also heard in the meeting folks say was that there's too much information. I want to condense the information. So a rubric doesn't really solve that, but it does make each member accountable. to providing their feedback like you said i do think that members should be active um actively engaged in the process i haven't seen that from everybody i did in the examples you gave to us i'd like the illinois example because it requires evidence to support board expectations so if you're giving someone a low score on something you can provide the evidence as to why or if you're giving someone a high score on something you're providing
038the evidence as to why I disagree that the current process is not robust or sufficient on multiple occasions this committee was provided with performance based data and Measurable results that indicate strong leadership. I did provide a list of that at that July meeting. I won't go through that again I think you know regardless of whether or not this is about a person or it's not personal I think that to blame dysfunction on the process Diverts the focus on our responsibility as a body. We're all adults. We've all worked in different capacities in the professional world To say you don't have what you need to evaluate something. I don't think is necessarily the full picture If the process was actually inadequate Why did a majority of this body vote no to extend the superintendent contract if
039you felt you had enough information to vote? No on a contract extension Then you had enough information if you didn't have enough information you could have abstained from that I'm just, to me, actions speak louder than words. Your votes speak louder than what you say your intentions are, what you say you want to do. That's really where I get my input and what decides. the level of trust i have with other people you know like i i did call tyler out at that meeting it's interesting that mr champlin's not here because as you said it was his agenda item he had a list of requests um i've had conversations with him about it personally um and i think there are he did have some reasons to doing that but there also was a lot of
040like insider information that seemed to go into the decision of evaluation we heard about emails that not all of us received I don't know what that means. That's like hearsay. So somebody said that. That was members of this committee that received email. I don't remember that, and I don't know what you're referring to. Guys. This is with the superintendent, the contract extension. Ms. Champlin says she received about 100 emails with negative remarks about the superintendent that I didn't receive. So I'm saying when... The evaluation having a dysfunctional evaluation process is not always the fault of the process Sometimes it's because someone's getting information from subjective sources that not all of us got so I'm just pointing out that discrepancy if you don't remember it That I miss you. Thank you said that she remembers. Thanks
041for clarifying that and I know Laura I'm sure Laura will speak for herself, but if somebody said letter if But, okay, but I want to finish now. I want to respond to what you just said. So, I mean, like the level of disrespect tonight is at another level. You're interrupting me in the same way you just didn't like me interrupting you. Are you finished, Jess? No, I'm not. Okay, then finish and then I want to respond. Sure. So like I said, some members expressly received communication from constituents with negative feedback, but myself and others did not receive that feedback. How can the evaluation process be considered fair if some members are using subjective data to make important decisions? That's why I do support the rubric, but I don't support subcommittee. I want a full committee
042working on this. And I think that we do have to make it more important to, what is it? Our constituents. They're people that voted for us that are emailing us. They're not just random people. I'm not saying they're random, but I'm saying it's subjective when only certain people get that information. And we're talking about having a- Maybe they don't trust you. Maybe they don't trust me is what Polly Hopkins said maybe I mean if they didn't email you course you're in Richmond and I got Point of order this is exactly what I said a short while ago No, you will Interrupt there's between people all the time Frank I'm doing my best They people who didn't hesitate finding fault when you were sitting out there meeting after meeting after meeting Unbelievably how inefficient first of
043all your tone is yield the light I did ask miss Hopkins what she said I am out of control right now crying She did not ask to be recognized by the chair. She spoke I did I did engage in her as well So so Polly can you refrain until Jess is finished? I appreciate it. Thank you Like I said, actions speak louder than words, and I think that we have to work on ourselves being professionals and engaging in a professional process. I'm in favor of maintaining a clear process of data analysis, but it is hard to move forward without trust and transparency, and that's one of the reasons I want the full committee to work on this together. So Laura had her hand raised. No, I can't. No? Okay. I thought you wanted to respond.
044No, I can't. Okay. Polly? No? Okay. So... did anybody else have their hand raised karen just give me one moment okay so about the emails i didn't remember what you were referencing about the emails but obviously when you just brought it to light i appreciate you you're reminding me about that but if somebody emails certain members of the committee we don't have any control over what constituents is emailing which school committee member so to say that other people had you know subjective data it was it was a constituent's opinion About a particular topic that they wanted to which is subjective but as evaluators we have to is we have to take everything into consideration What the superintendent is bringing us what the community is bringing us so basically I'm not going to discount a member
045of the community's opinion about something I I'm trying to listen to all voices so I can't you know i can't help who emails me and then who emails you i'm sure you get emails that i'm not privy to and you're a richmond representative and i'm a richmond representative i'm sure you get emails from people all the time that they're not sending me the same email so i mean i we can't police who's mailing what to individual members of the school committee i think that that's you know that's that's really really tough to you know evaluate so hold on karen's uh hand was raised first I'm not discounting, you know, conversations, not even emails. I have conversations with people that live here, parents, families, neighbors, all that stuff. That's expectedness, an expected part of your duty.
046But the evaluation process, what we're supposed to evaluate, one thing of that one area shouldn't be given excessive weight. And I felt like at that meeting, the comment made was that there was excessive weight given to that item. And so that is part of why, like I do agree, it should be a robust process. Everyone should be an active member, but I think if we're gonna evaluate quantitative data, we should do that. We should make that a priority. And as far as goals for moving the district forward, my number one goal is to get an approved capital improvement plan. It has been for years. It will continue to be that until we have an elementary school that fits the modern needs of our students today. That's what I will support the superintendent in the most
047wholeheartedly. Thank you, Karen. So I'm just referring back to, I guess, Tyler's email. So staff and community feedback is clearly evident in SurveyWorks, which is on the RIDE website. And according to the chart that Ms. Picard gave us, we get a mid-year goal progress update in February and March. As somebody who designs and utilizes rubrics, I'm not sure how to evaluate soft skills. The most important part of a rubric is actually the written feedback that's provided. When it's provided to students, I know it has to be detailed and it has to be meaningful and it has to be solid examples to work towards improvement. Thank you, Karen. Anyone else? I'd like to jump on that because I was an evaluator. I had 28 teachers that I had to evaluate on a yearly basis and we
048used a rubric and you have to, exactly what Karen said, you have to base it on concrete, actual information and data. It can't be subjective and it can't be personalized. It has to be based on what you can see, hear, feel, not even feel, I shouldn't say that, but see and hear. But yeah, I think that a rubric could be interesting. I'm just not sure with this committee whether it's going to be possible because we, I'm not sure how much, in just my own experience in sitting on this committee and not having other members give the superintendent feedback and then not. not choose to renew her contract, you have to understand, all of you, that this is not easy work if we do it right. So if we're gonna do it right, it's gonna be
049very thoughtful and a lot of work. And I'm all for that, but just. Okay, thank you, Linda. Thank you. Karen. Another important piece of this would be the calibration. Yes where we would look at evidence together and we would all score and come back together and discuss our findings to make sure that we're understanding these pieces the same so that we're evaluating the same so if a score is traditionally when you do student work if a score is Really high and the other person is really low those scores get thrown out Jess So I did already reference an email we received from the superintendent that was also posted in the meeting materials that shares some of the frameworks and documents regarding the superintendent evaluation process and other resources. The chair host superintendent evaluation framework is
050a timeline of different activities, our role, where we can focus our evaluation. But one of the items also included was Sorry, it's a chair how example chair how regional school district leadership assessment for district administrators So mr. Card, could you maybe just expand upon this? Is it in use currently has it been can you just say a little more about what this is? And if you think this is something we don't have to say that but if it's something that maybe we could Adopt to be used for your evaluation or the superintendent evaluation not just yours. So this was actually used for Barry Ritchie It was the original rubric when they first did the rubric. And then I think I mentioned earlier at a meeting that they sunsetted their rubric. Similar to what Ms. Reynolds
051said, Member Reynolds, that due to the lack of calibration or the feedback provided, they went to the full report where at the time, Donna Soskavage was taking the feedback and put it so that the committee could focus on the feedback versus the writing of the feedback. Mrs. Scavage took that over as she was there for 30 years. But we still use that evaluation for our central office. Dr. Camilla and I, we're always looking, we're actually looking right now to see, to even make some changes to make it more meaningful because it changes, the work changes. And this has been around a long time in Chattahoochee. I think it came into play maybe 2010, maybe a little before that. And then it was sunsetted around, I think, 2014, 2015. And then their direct feedback was moved.
052So it's something that Dr. Camillo and I both use. Mr. Zanion's evaluation is done this way. Special ed director, assistant special ed director, IT director, Mr. O'Brien in the back, it's the district administrator. So these are the evaluations done with all the central office administrations. And then when you see the... the one, I think I may have added it later, was the administrators rubrics. The school administrators have one that's required by the state RIDE. So central office is handled by the district. And then the school administrators are done by the RIDE rubric. And that's how myself and Dr. Camilla score our building administrators. And then they, in turn, you have the educator evaluation, which is what we use for all of our teachers. Thank you. So for me, this is about professionalizing the process, as
053I said earlier. I think that a subcommittee is a better way to go, so I'm not going to support the full committee being involved in developing a rubric. We have subcommittees for lots of other things, and if we can put a smaller committee together, I think in the interest of time and efficiency. A smaller subcommittee is a better way to move forward. But everybody has to be involved in the process of evaluating the superintendent. That's the end goal. So for purposes of this discussion, I'm not going to support this motion. I'm going to be a no vote on this. And I do think that we have very talented people on this full committee that could be part of a subcommittee process, develop a rubric. where then all of us will be involved in evaluating the
054superintendent. So does anybody else want to talk on this matter before we come to a vote? So, Madam Clerk, the motion is for... Thank you. Then that's for the full committee, right? Okay. So all in favor of the full committee being a part of the developing a rubric for the evaluation process. So Linda, Jess, Karen, and Craig. Anyone opposed? Polly, myself, Laura, Larry. Okay, motion fails. Chair, can I make a motion that we create a subcommittee to evaluate the superintendent? I second that motion. Okay, so there's a motion and a second. Any discussion here when we just went through this process of discussing it so there is there anyone else in it anything else that anyone wants to say in The spirit of the full sub the full school committee participating in this process I'd
055like to hear from the people that voted no to my motion as to why they did Or to why they support a subcommittee. I think if we want everyone to participate everyone should participate Does anybody want to say anything? Reason I that is I am and then Laura the reason I I didn't approve a full committee is Because I think that having the entire full committee Decide what should be in that rubric is going to be extremely time-consuming Okay, it's going to be extremely difficult to have all 12 members Try to come in with a consistency of what should and shouldn't be on this rubric Okay Yes, the subcommittee can put it together if the full committee doesn't agree with what the subcommittee has come up with We can always make changes at that time
056Okay If there's something on that, on the subcommittee's, you know, process that the full committee doesn't agree with, changes can be made. It's not about just making all the decisions in the subcommittee and then saying, okay, this is the way it's going to go. It never happens. We don't do it that way. So we bring it to the full committee. If you don't like the way the rubric is designed, you always have the option. of making changes or requesting that something be done differently. You don't have to accept it like anything else when any subcommittee brings it to us. Okay Laura I'm sorry before you go ahead I asked college just because I was in the middle of the recording vote and I didn't actually get your entire motion can you say it again for
057me so I can read it exactly the motion that I requested I have motion for subcommittee and that's as far as I go to to create the evaluation or recreate the evaluation evaluation of the rubric Well a subcommittee to create the evaluation process which includes a rubric all of all of the things underneath We already have a process. Yeah Well, that's the motion the motion is the motion is the motion it was seconded Well, that was my understanding. I believe what I said was I made a motion to create a subcommittee to create a subcommittee for re, now I can't think of the word. Yeah. Re-evaluation. To re-evaluate or revise. I can't, now I can't remember what I said. I said it perfectly the first time. So the, so I don't know if you want
058to withdraw your motion and then withdraw your second. I will draw my motion and then redo it. How's that? Number three, I want to take agenda item number three. Nope, nope. Polly has the floor right now. Thank you for correcting. Okay. Thank you. I withdraw the second. So, yes. So, Polly, your motion is? A motion to create a subcommittee for the express purpose of the evaluation process of the superintendent wherein we may pause. For the express purpose to create. of the superintendent as it was before just reinstating it do we want wording in there for a root to create a rubric when there's already a rubric that's established we don't use it we don't have a rubric okay no right so it should include a rubric so i'm thinking i'm going to respectfully request that
059you adjust your motion to include a rubric yes and if i say it i have a yes i second the motion any other discussion on this is there yes yes i i don't think that i know we don't want to have to go through this again but i don't think we should we should talk about the rubric at this time i think the subcommittee should decide what the process is and what it's going to look like it may not it may may or may not have a rubric in it i don't know I mean, you're sort of pigeonholing the subcommittee. I agree. I think the subcommittee should decide how they're going to move forward and in what way, and then bring it to the school committee and say, hey, we're going to do it this
060way. Okay. Okay, hold on. So are you withdrawing it again, Polly? Let's go back to the original version. So in the effort to help our lovely clerk, thank you let's I'll withdraw and we'll Restate it. So it's nice and clear for the the notes and the public make a motion to create a subcommittee for the express purpose of creating uh of evaluating the superintendent how's that no it's your motion it's the process it's not to evaluate the superintendent the problem sorry for the express purpose too many people talked about yeah for the express purpose of the express purpose of the superintendent's evaluation process how's that evaluation process i think that covers make a motion broad enough okay second okay any other further discussion on this okay Did you want to you want to weigh in
061on this Laura? So no, I'm just responding because Jess and asked us we voted no to explain Why we voted no to her having a full committee and I just would really just echo what Diane said Because it has to go to the full committee anyway, so anything that's you know, that's not like that you want to have taken away and just be taken away. And then also, I think that if you just look at the email that... was sent to us that gina sent to us you know you can see that there's it's it's pretty robust as far as what is it what the whole process the evaluation process entails um there's just a lot there and i think that it could be more effective if a subcommittee is tasked with you know that
062particular um that particular job that way you're not having so many people involved and then again because it still goes to the full committee it can always be changed so that's just my point thank you laura so jess um ms tap did this Board of Trustees Meeting, Chair Kite, and Chair Dugan both said if you don't like it, you can change it. That's not true. You have to have the votes of the committee to do it. You can't just decide one person can't decide I don't like this. Take it out. It's a process. And for me, we have an educational liaison. It's our superintendent. She provides us with a framework and all of the data to evaluate it already. I'm just having a difficult time understanding what the deficit is in the process that exists
063and why we have to form a special subcommittee. to change the process as it is when some of you haven't even engaged in the process already. Or you did and then you still voted no. Or you voted no, you said you didn't have enough information, you voted no. So I have, talk about trust, I have trust issues with sending this to a subcommittee and then saying, oh, well, it's fine, you can change it if you want, because I don't know if that would be possible that I would be able to do that or have my feedback be listened to if I'm not in that meeting at the time. I mean, you could say that about any subcommittee, though. I mean, you guys have a policy subcommittee. An agenda item or a specific policy will be
064reviewed by the policy subcommittee. There are six people on the policy subcommittee. You discuss sort of how you want something to either be changed or stay the same, and then you bring it back to the full committee. And then the full committee has a discussion about it. So, I mean, you guys had a necessity for school construction subcommittee meeting today. I'm sure there were things that were discussed in that subcommittee that, you know, I'm not aware of yet because I wasn't at the meeting, but it eventually will come back to the entire full committee. So, you know, that's how I feel. It's going to come back to the full committee to weigh in, to discuss, to improve. That was the whole purpose of this agenda item. Linda did you have your hand up Linda and
065then Laura? I think there are some people who have their hands up. I'm not sure you're gonna. Oh sure. Okay. Yes. So I just want to say that I think I understand your issues with the trust and why you feel that way because it seems like it's very contentious on the committee However, I think that all committee members are there still Gina correct me if I'm wrong Committee members can still attend some committee meetings, correct? No, not if it goes over 6. Even if they don't speak? Correct. They can't attend this? No. Because what happens is the meeting, if more than 6 attend, more than a quorum in your case, that means that it should really be at a regular meeting. So once you hit number six, the individual, so if you hit seven, the
066individual has to leave. Okay. Or we can't keep the meeting going. Okay. And could we, and is it possible, so if we have the subcommittee just in the effort of transparency rather than, I mean, obviously you still have minutes from the meeting, but couldn't we theoretically have it, you know, in the same way that we have a live stream for special meetings? could we possibly do the same thing for those smaller meetings if we had to so that other people could be updated if they needed we just have we always check with mr bryan that makes sure he's available i'm not saying with him specifically but i'm saying like that's who does it because nobody it's a certain setup so we don't have many people that can do other than the i.t Because I know
067at some meetings we've had people that are not part of the school that have had either taken video or whatever from the public. I can't guarantee that. But here, it's our IT staff. So typically... Because obviously if it's a public meeting we put it on it. It's through our name So I know I realize that could be anybody can take any time but if we wanted to make that standing on special meetings we do it on larger topics we did it like for the slam and me and What we do would have to update mr. O'Brien stipend I think So just kind of to my point though is that you know, I think that it That regardless there, you know, whoever's taking the minutes from the meeting that it could be very detailed and I
068don't think there's really any reason that it cannot be as transparent as you know, any committee member wanted to be. So, Diane, I know you have your hand. I have something to say. I'm sorry. I keep hearing somebody from the crowd who's talking. Yeah. Okay. I just, I'm sorry. I keep hearing comments. I'm just want to come up and speak by all means. So, Jean, I just wanted to respond to the question about if there's seven at a meeting or can't be seven. So I actually asked Ben Scungio this question today because the Necessity for School Construction Committee met today, and I asked Mr. Scungio about, because there are five on that committee right now, right? there was a necessity for school construction subcommittee maybe a month or so ago when larry was here and
069then i walked in and i said oh there's seven i i can't i can't be here so i left so i actually asked ben scungio today you know what happens in that situation if there's a subcommittee meeting and that there's seven members of the school committee and what he said to me was was if the meeting is noticed on the secretary of state's office website that there could be seven at the meeting, but those people that are not on the subcommittee cannot speak for, you know, from, can't participate in the discussion. They could listen, but they cannot participate in the discussion because that would then, you know, trigger the quorum. So that's what he said to me today. Is that not your understanding? It's not my recollection from Mr. Anderson's. It's probably something we should
070clarify because as someone who works with Mrs. Scungio in all of Providence and Mr. Anderson here, sometimes, as you all know, lawyers give different advice. Right. So I would want them both to talk first. Okay. And then provide us probably in writing what the next step is. Because I had that question too. So because I anticipated that that might be something that would come up tonight potentially. So but that, you know, that's what he told me today. All right. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, Diane, did you want to say something? Okay. So do we have members of the audience that want to come up? Go ahead. Your name and your, I know who you are and I know where you live, but yeah. So Samantha Wilcox, I live in Richmond. I'm not 100% sure what
071the makeup of this committee is going to be. It's hard for me, I think, to make a subcommittee when I don't know how many people are going to be on it, if you guys sometimes have people from different towns. But also from what I'm understanding is the subcommittee is going to develop this evaluation process and then bring it to the full committee for discussion anyway. So to me, it just doesn't seem like the subcommittee is necessary, especially if you have so many people that Want to be at the table and have the discussion I think we should be inclusive and have all those people at the discussion instead of creating barriers to keep them out I think we need to build a bigger table Quoting Jess there for something she said to me before so
072I don't understand like I do see the benefit of going into smaller groups at times and subcommittees can be useful. But if these many people are interested and want to be heard, I don't think we should be intentionally excluding them, especially because it's going to be coming before the full committee anyway. So you will eventually need to have the conversation with those people. So thank you. Thank you. Was there anyone else? Yes, sir. Your name and your town, please. Sure. Gary Stoner from Richmond. This is really painful to listen to. There's already a when a superintendent is hired There's a process in place that identifies her role her duties the thing she's supposed to accomplish There's an evaluation process that's in place And basically what I've heard tonight and in previous meetings is that based
073on one person's suggestion, that process is going to be thrown out in favor of creating a new process that includes a rubric. There's nothing magical about a rubric that says that makes perfect evaluation. But I've never heard anything about the process that's in place that says it's not reliable or it's not valid or it's not accurate. So I don't understand the purpose of creating a new process for evaluation. And if you're going to do that, how are you going to ensure that it is reliable? And how are you going to ensure that it's accurate? And how are you going to ensure that it's free of confirmatory bias? We sat here for multiple, I've been here for multiple meetings where people have failed to renew the contract of the superintendent. based on limited amounts of evidence,
074if any evidence that was public. And now you're going to engage in an evaluation and some of those same people who voted against the renewal of the contract are going to be involved in creating a new process of evaluation. So how will you, all of you, make sure that that process is free of confirmatory bias? I don't think you know how you'll do that because it's going to be really hard. But I urge you not to let that process go forward until you have a plan that answers those questions. And you may want to hire a professional evaluator if you're going to evaluate a superintendent and speak about the work that she's doing and has been doing for years and without disparaging her in the process. Thank you for those suggestions perhaps a professional evaluator
075could be considered if the subcommittee decides to potentially move forward with something like that and just to respond mr. Stoner from for me this was the obviously the first time I was involved on a school committee with this process of evaluating the superintendent which is a really big job and Just for me. I thought the process seemed rushed it was it could have been because i was new on the committee and didn't sort of understand the whole sort of scope of the process um but you know we had um we had a you know a meeting which was about an hour and a half and The superintendent gave us updates on her goals and meeting those goals. And the school committee did not have, to me, enough time to ask questions. And maybe that was
076part of sort of my naivete in running that meeting in an executive session sort of setting. But I thought that the process was ripe for improvement. just taking it to another level of sort of professionalism and input by the entire committee. And this is not a criticism of the superintendent and Jean and I have talked about this at length. So I do think that the process needs some retooling and reworking because the superintendent does deserve that and the superintendent does deserve for everybody to participate in the evaluation process. So Laura and then I'll go to Mary Yeah, just also respond to what you said I recall at the one of the means and one of the reasons I'm very supportive of doing this is because I very candidly remember this is Picard saying that she
077that the committee and the school, that they needed to be aligned. And when there's a misalignment, that it makes things difficult. So she, from my perspective, I felt like that she really wanted to understand the feedback from all of the committee members. And I think that that's important. You know, I do believe that the superintendent deserves our feedback. And if there's some members on the committee who didn't feel comfortable speaking about those things in a public setting because they did not want to disparage or they did not want to get in a situation where they felt like it was unprofessional of them to speak on certain things, I think that the superintendent still deserves that feedback. If it clearly is there's not a process in place right now from my perspective, at least, that allows
078for that open dialogue at the moment in a more formalized way. So I'll go to Mary, and then I'll go to Larry. And I'm just going to grab my coat because I'm freezing. Excuse me. I'm listening, Mary. So going back to your comments Louise I wonder if the process felt rushed this year for some people because the superintendent was working since the beginning of the school year on her goals But some people did not come on to the committee until January That's nearly half the year gone by that she's been working diligently To achieve those goals but because some people were not present to see all of that in action because of the way the elections Occur and the people come on to the school committee. That doesn't mean that she wasn't working towards and
079achieving those the other comment I have is I am very concerned about this rubric that you keep bringing up because I fear that it will become very subjective and I can assure you that after 35 years of teaching, if my evaluation on a yearly basis depended on the number of negative emails my principal may have gotten from parents, I would not have made it 35 years. So I think there are two words that anybody who's going to be thinking about how to evaluate Ms. Picard, and it's something that I lived my whole career by, observable and measurable. If you can't see her doing it in action and you have no means of measuring it, then it has no business being part of her evaluation. Thank you for that feedback. Appreciate that. Larry, did you want
080to say something? Yeah. I think we need to maybe table this for the night and maybe make another special meeting to come together and see how we really want to do this. It seems like everybody's all over the place. You know, I think I think we should table this and get Tyler here in Patton and Everybody could be here to put their input into this see how it could be done. Sorry motion Thank You Larry for that feedback Okay, so we do have a motion on the table and we just sorry can I just ask miss Picard another point of clarification I think City Council Chambers, This year, when I rewatch the meetings you reiterated that your performance review was never on the agenda item, but this year it was and that's why the presentation
081you gave an executive session in March. City Council Chambers, was different than what we've received previously, it was different than the feedback loop that I had previously engaged in instead of. discussing your goals in other ways you discussed your whole five years of work here and how you had moved towards if that was more of a performance review can you explain more about why that agenda item included your performance review and wasn't just the superintendent whatever it was before i don't know the exact wording um but that was just a sticking point when i re-watched it with uh the meetings today at the time the chair requested um i got a call I think it was for both of you, John Anderson and the chair, that my job performance was being added to the agenda
082item along with the review of the evaluation of my goals, which is when I utilized the strategic planning because I thought if it was a job performance, and just to clarify, there is a difference. So the evaluation is you all approved my goals in October. based on those goals, I provide you with the updated progress, you know, to date, which I had met. That's the goal. And we do push ourselves. Sometimes that's going to be hard to do, but we push. And then when the chair added the job performance, job performance means that you're reviewing myself as an employee, no different than a teacher being called in and going to review your performance to date. So you have to give more than your goals. You have to do your entire performance. And with a few
083members being brand new, understanding five years of work was not going to be easy. So that's where we had to bring it. We did it earlier. We gave more time. I had the feedback sheets developed so that those who didn't want to speak could write it for me or meet with me individually. That was always an option because as you all know, value the feedback. But I think my perception was it got cloudy for those that were newer to the system. I know that even Mr. Champlin and I have spoken. He hasn't always been able to attend my evaluations. So I think he's been involved. I think he was involved in one, maybe two. But overall, you know, I know that the chairs asked me about the rubric. I think as long as it's reliable
084and valid, again, to Ms. Lyle's point, as someone who's had to be involved in that kind of data, just like you would want me to utilize evidence research that wasn't reliable or valid. it is no easy task to develop a rubric just like if your own children came home you would question a subjective rubric and one that um And I mentioned just to the chair, I'm not opposed to a rubric, but I do believe that regardless of the superintendent, whether it's me, whoever else it is, that they deserve to know whether it's highly effective or needs an improvement, the why behind it. So that to me, it's hard to make any improvements when no one tells you or someone doesn't specifically say, this is where I have a problem. Hearsay becomes really difficult. you know,
085not necessarily the individual who gets to say a lot, but my role here at the school committee meeting is your liaison, which means I often am the messenger from the Department of Ed or the General Assembly. Not that I want to be, but I'm delivering a message that most people don't love, especially during COVID with RIDO. Let's just say that was a whole new set of skills that you had to have. But overall, when the law changed to take some of the school committee's power away based on the trajectory of education, I think that's where some of this push and pull came in. I don't necessarily think it's just this committee. I think all committees sometimes struggle with the superintendent evaluation because when you're not living in a world where... I'm a legislated role. I
086mean, most jobs, your role isn't legislated. So mine comes directly under the law. I mean, then there's your school committee is legislated with your superintendent. In essence, I think anything that helps us move the district forward is important. And if there is something that I always think that, I mean, I could tell you what I want to improve. Like, that's the whole point of the goals. And in myself, I'm always someone who's looking to evolve and grow. I think most of us as educators go into this business because we do. But in the end, you know, the chair asked for the job performance. And I think she's even said to me that in her own, like her newness of it, maybe it wasn't, you know, the exact move that would have happened. But I think
087the timeline was short. So if the goal, you know, was to do both and a lack of, you know, how the process worked. We could have done it differently. I would have loved to be able to explain the process. I think I have never had the same school committee ever in a whole year. So I think even that, it provides some disruption. So it's a big learning curve for most. I mean, I've been on a school committee since 2008, and I don't want to be the chair because it's not an easy role to have. As I'm sure those of you that have done it know, but in the end, I think the most important thing, and I appreciate Larry's tabling, whether it's a subcommittee or the full committee, I think it's most important is really
088like what part of the process feels. Like it needs to be different and what what where are the struggles? I think that conversation probably will help all of you figure out Do you really need a complete revamp? Is it a rubric? Do we have one that people can start from? But this way I think the more that I know What feels awkward or why those of you who that haven't given me feedback haven't? I mean, that's probably the best put forward for me personally to be able to get stronger for the district. But in the end, I think the most important thing is that you all define the success. What does success look like? What are you hoping to achieve? But overall, I think it's a good conversation, but I understand that sometimes we all
089come from different sides of it. But in the end, I think you're all looking for the same goal, which is to have a thoughtful process. I think right now the concern is maybe everyone's voice not being as heard, and I can appreciate the policy subcommittee. You know, same thing. I do think that your committee has a lot of subcommittees, but this is a topic where, I mean, I'm the employee that you get to hire, so this process is probably one of the most important things other than hiring a superintendent. Thank you, Gina. All right, so we have a motion on the floor. We have a second. So all in favor of creating a subcommittee to clerk revise the superintendent process. All in favor of creating a subcommittee, please raise your hand. Okay, so there's four
090of us. All those opposed? There's four. And abstentions? Okay. So motion fails. Okay, we're moving on. discussion and vote to approve adding another member to the necessity for yes there was a third option which was status quo status quo okay does anything all right well does it i make a motion to keep status quo okay does anybody second the motion i second it do you mean to keep the current process correct status quo okay fair enough we have a motion and a second Okay, so you said hang on so I wasn't sure why you were saying because she was writing Okay, thank you. Okay. Okay. So as their discussion on this All right. So all in favor of keeping the superintendent evaluation process status quo We say as is instead of status quo status quo
091is such a negative connotation. Just reading what the chair said So that's four votes All those opposed. One, two, three, four, five. Motion fails. Okay. Well, thank you, Craig, for bringing that forward. All right. Discussion and vote to approve adding another member to the Necessity for School Construction Subcommittee. This was an agenda item brought forward by Diane Teft. So I'm going to turn this over to Diane to maybe talk to the committee about potentially your being. added as a member of the you're welcome so i attended that committee meeting subcommittee meeting today before this one and i have to say i got a lot of information out of it okay more information than i have gotten prior i have a great interest um in actually being a member of that subcommittee um I feel as
092though, you know, as you know, I voted against the one school. And I did it for multiple reasons, but one of them was I didn't have enough information. I didn't feel confident, okay? This committee, this subcommittee, makes a lot of big decisions, you know, and they bring it to us. So... I'm asking actually to be added to this subcommittee so that I may be able to better understand and figure out what exactly is going on and What I can contribute and feedback that I can give okay I'll make a motion to add Diane's happen to the subcommittee for the necessity for school construction So we have a motion and we have a second from Laura Larry you were late to the to that. Linda, did you discussion? I'd like to be on that committee too.
093Okay. So we have a motion. I mean, if we're going to, you know, why don't we just. How many people could be on this committee? I mean, I don't get why. Okay. One at a time. Hold on. Hold on. I have the floor. Yes, you do. Why do we need to add another person to this committee? I don't understand. It's like you have to request. I guess I would like to request that. Maybe someone else would like to request that. I mean, it gets to the point where I don't understand. I don't understand why you want to be on the committee if you didn't vote for the school in the first place. Well, I didn't have enough information. I don't believe that. I feel confident about my decision, okay? So going forward, in order for
094me to make a very good and wise decision, I need to get this information firsthand. And the only way to do that, Linda, is to be actually on that committee. Okay. Craig, and then Karen. Gina. I'm with the assumption that this committee will be disbanded pretty soon. Probably by February. Until the building committee is seated, the necessity for school construction, I'm not sure what Member Tufts means by not getting the information because nothing happens in necessity for school. It's very different. Typically, for example, they asked Mario Carino to attend to get more information, but all of the information that happens at that meeting comes here. So they don't get any new information. They don't get any information prior to the school committee. If anything, typically you will get it first. This is really, this is
095made up of a requirement by the state to ensure that we can keep sort of a ball rolling. The reason why it doesn't hold much weight here is because the Charahoe Act instills a new building committee. So really in Charahoe, the necessity for school construction committee is more about an advisory to ensure we can keep. the application moving forward and why because they require it so they require one school committee member because everything has to come to you you have to make all the decisions you have to get all the information right so everybody on this committee always has the information that committee is is less about um Learning about the process and more about getting feedback to be able to advise the school committee and what they're hearing in the public So for example
096like today about the website how to get information Like more about how to continue to like sort of grow our communication and our exactly exactly so so I'm sure you feel like you're getting information. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no I do I do I do and and you know what I report I've been reporting out at every meeting Exactly exactly, but I can't see what the problem is is with me wanting to be on this committee or getting on this committee um there was you know there's been other members who have asked to be on existing committees after the committee has been established so we've set a precedence i don't see where there's an issue or there should be an issue the numbers are thank you for answering my question greg you're all set Karen, did
097you have your hand raised? I'd just like to point out that it's an open meeting, so people are always welcome. And secondly, there were three votes taken, two for minutes and one for an adjournment. So there were no motions made. It was just a discussion and a timeline and a discussion about that even members of the public, if they were here, could have spoken. Thank you. Jess and Polly. So I agree. I understand why you want to be on that subcommittee because I did in June. And my request wasn't supposed to be on the agenda. The chair decided she didn't want to put it on the agenda. So I went through grief to get on that subcommittee too. And four members of this committee voted against me being on that subcommittee. That being said, as
098I said at that time, if you want to be on it and we're not hitting a quorum, I have no problem. Even if you voted no on the school, that's okay. I welcome your opinion and your feedback, but there does seem to be a double standard that happened. Maybe it was just a changing of minds, changing of hearts based on from my request in June that was almost completely dismissed. And like I said, folks voted against, but I have no problem adding you to the subcommittee. Thank you for your feedback. Polly? I just wanted to point out that Some of these subcommittees sometimes are very hard to reach a quorum. So if we have more school committee members on them without breaching that quorum of us. It might help out with the meetings, and I
099would like everybody to reconsider how many people are on the building subcommittee as well. Maybe a couple people join there so the quorums can always be reached and our business can keep moving forward. So that's the building committee. The building committee is appointed by the town councils. You will get three members, so we can't change that. Necessity for school construction, actually only one school committee member has to be present for the quorum because you represent a group. Not a number. Like you have OMA, which is different than what the purpose of the necessity is. So as long as one member of the school committee is present, you know, we can move forward. Just like the principals. Like there's not necessarily, we look at categories. But because you're elected officials, you have a little bit of
100an extra piece. So just to respond to Jess's point about her wanting to be on the necessity for school construction subcommittee. The only reason why I objected in the first place is because we had a very long reorganization meeting in January where anyone that could have gotten on a committee could have articulated that they wanted to be on a committee. So what I anticipated is now happening. What I anticipated is if you open it up for one person, then you have to open it up for every person, and then it takes time to put this stuff on the agenda to discuss it and rediscuss it and discuss it again. and I keep getting constant feedback about agenda management. So I'm glad you got on the subcommittee. I'm sure you've been a valuable member of the
101subcommittee. And I don't have any problem with Diane wanting to be on the subcommittee. She has her reasons for wanting to be on it. Who is it for me to question why you want to be on it? Diane, if you want to be on the subcommittee to understand the process more, by all means, in my opinion, have at it. You're welcome. So we have a motion on the floor and we have a second to add Diane Taft to the necessity for school construction subcommittee. All in favor? Madam Clerk, do you have that? Okay. Anyone opposed? Linda and Craig. Any abstentions? Chair? I make a motion to adjourn. We have a second. Second. Okay. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Oh, hold on. Did you want to be on the subcommittee? No.
102Are you sure? Linda? Going once, going twice. Okay. So motion to adjourn. Sorry. That's unanimous. Thank you. Have a great night.