001should lock it when lance gets here set that on the make sure that's recorded all right it's 502 uh speech i called this meeting of the pearland independent school board of trustees to order on august 9 2022 at 5 0 2 p.m let the record show that a quorum of board members is present that the meeting has been duly called and the notice of the meeting has been posted in accordance with the texas open meetings act texas government code 551 that the record shows that trustees weimer coon carbone murphy bodkin carter and dr scheffler are present so at this time we're going to just kind of move some things around on the agenda and we're going to go to introductory remarks by Trustee Kuhn, and then we'll go into our board recognition. Perfect. Thank you.
002Thank you all for being here today, and all I want to say is wow. Wow what Pearland has... Okay, we're going to start with the pledge first. I did the same thing the first time I had to do it, too. The new people. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all honor the texas flag i pledge allegiance to texas one state under god one indivisible okay so wow wow i didn't know that was going first so um just everything going on in pearland right now is unbelievably exciting uh the energy across the city everything that i've seen from Dawson hosting an amazing scavenger hunt for their new teachers and their flight school.
003Turner Cat Camp was a huge success. Pearland seniors are out painting up the parking lot. And Pearland Fire Department actually showed up at their final day of band camp this summer. I thought that was just awesome with a really cool waterworks display. So thank you to the fire department for doing that. The other things I've seen as PTAs, the showing up across all the schools, welcoming the teachers back to school, the RISE mentorship program as, you know, at full speed, trying to recruit new people to go in and help these kids. It's just really, really inspiring to see AP exam signs are going up across town, mascot sightings, senior signs, and so much more. So I just am really proud of Pearland and everything that's going on. And can we say awesome to Pearland Little
004League for their win again today. So that's the 12U Pearland Little League All-Star team. So y'all make us so proud of y'all's dedication and sportsmanship. This school year, I want to encourage everyone to get involved in school activities. It takes a village is a true statement. And with even more community involvement and school pride, it will take us even farther than we have ever been before. Be there for your kids, encourage them in their endeavors, talk to their teachers, check in on them, listen, help where you can, attend sporting events and games and other events around our community, and have fun this year. If you have concerns about your children, talk to their teachers or administrators because we are all in this together. Lord, I pray that you watch over all of us as we
005enter into a new school year. May you bless our teachers with patience, grace, energy, and love. May you guide our students to make good decisions. focus, try their hardest, and find joy in learning each day. I pray that our students encourage each other the way that these Little League players have encouraged one another and that Pearland brings home the big win. Lord, please keep us safe each day as we commute to and from schools and activities. May parents find the time to invest back in their children. May children find the courage to ask for help whenever they need it. And may we all have patience to listen and understand one another this school year. And lastly, may we all have the courage to stand up for what we believe in. Lord, we thank you for
006your guidance, and in your name we pray. Amen. Also, just wanted to mention three save the dates for some upcoming events. The Lions Club is having their 41 gun raffle Saturday, August 27th at 6 p.m. Pearly Neighborhood Center Golf Tournament is on September 19th. And the Northern Brazoria County Education Alliance Salute to Kids, October 22nd. Thank you. Thank you. Any other updates from any other board members while we have the opportunity? All right. So at this time, next to our agenda, we'll just go ahead and move into recognition portion of the meeting. And I will ask our communications department to come up and make those recognitions. Pearland Independent School District is home to some of the most talented students in Texas. Now comes the time we recognize our staff and students for their achievements. Parents'
007photos will be available for download on the district Flickr account later this week, but if you would like, please feel free to come closer and take photos of your own student as they're being recognized. If I can have the FFA students line up for me over here, please. This past summer, Students receive the highest degree of membership the State FFA Association can award, the State Lone Star FFA degree. FFA members apply to receive the Lone Star degree only after they have received the chapter degree. Those wishing to receive their Lone Star degree must have been an active FFA member for at least two years and complete at least four semesters of agricultural science at or above the ninth grade level. Additionally, they must maintain a supervised agricultural experience. or SAE, invest significant time and money
008in their SAE, demonstrate their leadership skills, and show a commitment to the FFA through involvement at the chapter level and above. This degree of active membership is awarded at the state level during the Texas FFA Convention. Congratulations to Turner Seniors Lorelei Dodson, AJ Ref, and Haley vitals for receiving the State Lone Star FFA degree. Each year our administration selects a student as the featured artist for our district employee birthday card. The 2022-23 birthday card artist is Danielle Nguyen who designed the card last spring while attending Pearland Junior High West. Her teacher is Krista George. Can I please have Danielle join me? At this time, I'd like to recognize a community partner that has worked with Parallel ISD for the past 18 years providing backpacks and school supplies for students in need. From July through August
009donations were collected from the community in 600 backpacks and school supplies were donated to the district I am pleased tonight to recognize our longtime district supporter the Vic Coppinger family YMCA represented by Samuel Gray Pearland ISD trustee Crystal Carbone Recently earned the designation of Master Trustee upon completion of Leadership Texas Association of School Boards, TASB. Carbone joins the ranks of more than 900 school board members statewide, including Parallel ISD Master Trustee Lance Botkin and former Trustees Rebecca Decker and Virgil Gant. Here to honor Ms. Carbone and present her with a Certificate of Completion is Tony Hopkins, Director of the Texas Association of School Boards and Friendswood ISD Board of Trustees President. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. I always like having a microphone, so anywhere I go. And I will have to say, just one thing. This
010is, when they asked me to do it, it's really special. I graduated from Leadership TASB in 2014. And part of Leadership TASB is you have 36 people, roughly, in that program. But then you subdivide into groups of six. And Virgil Gant was in my group of six. And we spent a lot of time together, so it's really special to be here. For those that don't know about Leadership TASB, it's a year-long development program, kind of the premier leadership development program across the nation for school board members. You take five trips over the course of the year. It's really composed of trustees from large school districts down to little school districts. For me, it was Lass Buddy ISD with 120 kids, K through 12, all the way up to Houston ISD. And really what we're trying
011to do in that program is to challenge school board members to get different perspectives and most importantly to build a network that you can then tap on when you have issues that come up. to pick up the phone and you have a great network of resources and so that crystal is what you're part of lance knows knows well about it and you cannot underestimate i'm sure her family knows the time commitment it took over the last year especially with all the challenges that we've faced over the last couple years so thank you for your commitment to that and also thank you crystal has just now been appointed to the gulf coast area associations board of directors as well and so i just want to congratulate her on both of those accomplishments and welcome her to
012the leadership task of alumni association thank you so much and this concludes our recognition for the evening let's give our honorees another round of applause Hunter and Rhonda we still have a meeting if y'all want to stick around listen. I like your birthday card ideas. If y'all want to stick around it's fun. You're welcome. Alright. It's always my favorite part of the job is seeing the recognition of the kids. We're going to get through this and then go into the exacts. Huh? All right. Just glad you're here, Lance. All right. So let's move into the, we have one public comment speaker tonight. So let's move into that. This is the portion of the board meeting where the board receives input from patrons. Each person who wishes to address the board will have three minutes to
013speak on his or her issue. And according with new state law, the board must prioritize the comments of those patrons who are addressing specific items on tonight's agenda, such that input is received before board decisions are made tonight. Therefore, it is important that each person who signs up to speak clearly indicates the agenda item on which they are wishing to comment on. Patrons addressing items not listed on tonight will also be heard, provided that the total time allotted for public comment does not exceed 30 minutes. Because of topic posting requirements of the Open Meetings Act, the board members will not ask questions of the patron and will not answer any questions posed by the board by the patron. No action can be taken on any issue presented during this. patron comment segment of the board
014meeting. Patrons addressing the board will be notified when they are approaching the last 30 seconds, but there are a lot of time to speak. So I believe tonight we have just one speaker, which is Miss Dr. Gannon. Welcome. OK. Thank y'all. Honorable Pearland School Board Trustees and Superintendent Berger, as a recently retired pediatrician and grandparent of children in Pearland School District, I want to say thank you for all you do for the children's education of Maryland. Learning is the key for 2022 and 2023's year, as you all know. Most illnesses in children are minimal, and the most important part of schooling is to learn reading, writing, math, and to love our country. The current illnesses in our community require the same vigilance from parents, teachers, and school nurses as the last 20 years have shown
015me. Any fever over 100.5 oral or axillary or vomiting or diarrhea require children and or staff to stay home until symptoms resolve without Tylenol for 24 hours. Those parents who are concerned about COVID should follow the current guidelines of testing on day two to three of fever and keep their children home for five full days if positive. No masking nor testing should be required by the district, in my opinion. Thank you all for understanding and listening. I think just the most important thing for the resources of the district is to educate our kids. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Dr. Gant. Okay, that will conclude the public comment portion of tonight's agenda. And we will now move into the... New business, which is the consent agenda, and I will ask for a motion to approve
016the agenda items as presented, or if anyone wishes to pull an agenda item, let me know. I'd like to make a motion to approve the items as presented. Second. Sir, I'd like to pull consent agenda item five, please. Okay, Mr. Botkin, do you want to amend your motion to approve items 1 through 9 with pulling 5? Yes, I'd like to amend my motion. I'll make a motion that we approve items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 and pulling number 5 for Trustee Carbone. Second. Okay. So I have a motion to approve items one through nine with removing five for discussion and a second by Trustee Carter. So without any further discussion, I'll go ahead and call for the vote. All those in favor? Any opposed? Okay. Motion carries seven to zero. Excuse
017me. All right. Ms. Carbone, item five, revised board policy through TASB local. Yes, sir. Specifically, I'm interested in hearing feedback from the district regarding the creation of the proposed policy for library materials, which is EFB local. So just wanted to get some feedback about how we came to this place and how we're moving forward. And then some follow-up questions about we've seen a bunch of different policies come through, TEA versus TASB, and kind of want to get some feedback from administrative staff about where we're at and why we chose what we chose there. Yes, ma'am. Before Dr. Watson or Ms. Dawson come up to speak to that, in April, the governor put out a format with TEA to split EF legal. local to split instructional materials and library materials and it's now EFA and EFB
018and so when TEA put out their version we waited for TASB because we used TASB for most of our policies to about their version that is what we were proposing today to the school board in our EFA and EFB we are looking to rescind our current EF policy and split it into instructional material and library materials and what the board has before them is the TASB proposed policy for both EFB and EFB and EFB is the library materials. Thank you, sir. And I'm completely okay with the split of the instructional materials and the EFB local of library books. What I'm concerned about is that we still have at least four books that I have. content of today that are available for checkout of our libraries that I feel like do reach the penal code 4324A2,
019which is the dominant theme of explicit sexual material that I feel like is inappropriate for our students. I know there's a lot of... Public discourse on this topic right now, and I know that there's a lot of concern from some parents of our community that feel like this is a slippery slope to pooling content that's representative of various cultures and desires and students in our district and I just want to say now that that's not my intent and starting this conversation but in reading some of this material that is currently available in our libraries I can't not say anything and I can't not have a conversation about what we will do in Pearland ISD I've been watching other school boards kind of grapple with this issue and have some questions about like what are There
020are some districts that have used consent forms to make parents aware that there's adult-level material in the libraries and to give free access if that's what they so choose. There's other districts that have taken the stance of making book checkout immediately available to the parents so that when a book is checked out, parents can immediately see what that book was and be able to voice concern should they have any. So I'm looking for a middle ground here. My ultimate goal as a parent would be to remove the content altogether, but I realize that not everything in government is black and white. And so if we can find a middle ground, I'm happy to compromise on that. But there are books that I would like to see removed, and I'd like to see a policy in
021which we don't have a road that we go down where we have to have this conversation again. Yes, ma'am. For the books that are currently in our library collection, without this split, EF Local allows us to challenge either a parent or a community member or even employee any book in our collection that they feel is inappropriate. We have not had any formal challenges to this date, but I understand what you're saying is that... What I think you're saying is that you would like to see a little more of the TEA version of the policy in our proposal to the board in the TASB policy. It's kind of a medium road of both to where there is a little bit more, and I'm going to use the word teeth, you didn't say that, in being able
022to remove books, if I hear you correctly. And I guess my question, and geared towards that way, kind of saying it a little bit differently, is what were our primary concerns with the TEA stated policy? Why did we go the TASB route versus the TEA route? And trying to understand those nuances might help us to meet that middle ground where parents aren't concerned that we're going to be pulling every book from the bookshelf, but at the same time have a... clear pathway that doesn't take a year to get a book out of the libraries because one of the lines in here clearly states the book's going to stay there as long as the process is going on and so if we want a high degree of certainty that some of the sexually explicit material is
023going to be removed from our library i would rather that be done sooner rather than later and i feel like some of the tea guideline or the tea offered policy does allow us to move on that a little quicker than the stated policy by the tasby And in the TA policy or the TASB policy, we go with TASB and we feel that all the policy that we propose with TASB is what we've always done. We feel that there's considerations in the TASB policy if you look on page three where it talks about parent consideration and outlines that the ultimate determination of appropriateness remains with the student and the parent and parents may select alternative library materials for their student. We can work on if you are good with the policy or want us to bring
024back different policy for you. If we accept this policy we can work on procedures and Dr. Watson can talk about that about forms or about different processes to check out books or have them what we would call on the back shelf or parent approval before a student is able to view the book and in the case that a book is challenged while that is going on while it still may be in circulation they can prevent their student from seeing the book. I guess, am I the only one that has concerns in these areas? Does anybody else have? I have plenty of concerns. I think you and I share some of them, and I think we differ greatly on some of them as well. But I like the idea, you and I have actually talked about
025this before, about... you know, there being some sort of permission level for, that parents can fill out at the beginning of the school year, just like they do all the other forms, just like FERPA and everything else, so that you can say, my kid can have access to anything in the library. And I understand that's... There are a lot of anti-censorship people who will have a problem with that because that is still some form of censorship. But I feel like it's the best middle ground, like Crystal mentioned, to keep us from getting in these constant discussions about every book that comes into the library because the fact is there are a lot of books out there that have been in the school libraries forever. And in curriculums. I went to a Catholic school. I mean,
026there was sex in some of the books that we read in high school in literature class. I feel like some of the issues that are being brought up are very specific to certain groups, and I don't want our kids to not have the opportunity to read about themselves in the library. So I'm very passionate about kids being able to... I spent most of the summer reading most of these books that have been challenged. And there are a couple of them that have some graphic moments in them for sure. And maybe we can talk about them and maybe we can discuss them. And I like a little more detail too about who makes those judgments if there is a formal challenge. But I think that... There's a lot of pulling of a sentence or two out
027of context of the book, and you could pull that same sort of sentence or two out of a context of an older book, a book about... heterosexual couple or you know I mean because teen books have can I take a time out right there and I don't mean to interrupt because that's the last place I want to be but I want to be clear on what I've stated that it's not just about heterosexual I mean it's not just about homosexual I know but those are the only ones that people are challenging there's three of the four that I have here that are not anything about LGBT related. There's one about a grandfather raping in a very graphic context a granddaughter and that is highly inappropriate at the rate at which it talks about it in
028such detail that if you saw it visually on a screen students would not be allowed in that film without permission of their parents. Is it a graphic novel? No, it's not. It's something that you would have to visualize. I do see, I get with the drawings and stuff, but I also know that there are kids who have experienced that who might have that speak to them and help them. But secondarily, as a... school psychologist I would also offer that reading that kind of material outside of the support of a therapist could also retraumatize them and add additional burden that we wouldn't be able to catch them from because we don't know what their story is or how they got the book to begin with. Yeah, but I don't think that it would retraumatize them more
029than the initial experience no but it can definitely kids need to feel seen so um we can have this debate all day long sure we're talking actually about a process rather than specific things and that's why we landed on the TASB because it does still focus on the parent being the ultimate determination of appropriateness and they can communicate with the library and we can do processes and procedures for that and on the uh formal reconsideration committee we leaned on the expertise of our librarians They sat with Dr. Watson and C&I and created a process to review material that would include parents if necessary, teachers that reviewed the book, librarians that reviewed the work, and principals that reviewed the book. And in the reconsideration committees, those people would all be engaged in looking at the book
030based on the criteria that the librarians established for if the book meets. the needs of the students or the population. Do we have a specific committee right now for the review of these? It depends on when the book is challenged and at what levels it's challenged and who gets pulled into that. And that's outlined in the deliberation process that the librarians created. OK. Mr. Berger, I have a question. Maybe this will help the board. Does the board have the ability under these policies and procedures to remove a book? No. No, sir. Does the board have the ability under any policy, TEA or TASB, to remove a book? In the TEA proposed guidelines, there are board actions that they ultimately review every book that is purchased for library material and approve every book that is purchased.
031That's not the same question. Purchasing is different than removing. Well, that's the process what once the book and and mr. Austin can correct me once the book is in our collection It has to follow this process if the book is in our collection the board can't self select and say I don't like this book It's got to come out But the process that te a provides is that before the book even gets in our collection The board is allowed to review all the books to remove them So they're not ever placed in our collection once the book is in our collection. We have to follow a process We can't hand pick them unless of course it's deemed to be obscene according to the penal code and the board of course is each of you individually
032or a person and you can challenge individually you have the right to challenge a book on your own if you wanted to in both of the processes so maybe go glance I maybe have naive on the subject or just dumb but I understand, I guess somewhere along in the media, there's a lot of stuff of this stuff going on, challenging books. But as far as our administration on the campuses, Mr. Berger, are they seeing a, I mean, okay, let me back up. Sometimes parents, including myself, try and protect our kids for things that aren't there. Does that make sense? Are the books being checked out? Is that what you're asking? Yeah. I mean, are we making a fuss over something that? That rarely is I okay. There's a chance it might happen. I get it
033but The books that are on the challenge list that have been brought forward to us, Dr. Watson has looked with the librarians in the checkout and they are checked out minimally over the years. Five or six times in six or eight years. And also librarians are aware of the books that are in their library and if a student brings a book forward that they feel is, that may not be the right book for you, age appropriateness or content wise, and may offer a different book to them. And also, if I'm not mistaken, all of our books are in a digital catalog that are reviewable by parents outside. Yes. You know, I think I would say that... Having the board have the ability to pull a book is just a way to bypass this system. So
034I understand if we don't need that in policy, like the system, the policy and procedure has purpose. I share Crystal's concern with the idea that the material is left on the shelf during the process and wonder if there would be a way to where it's maybe available by request, like if someone specifically came in looking for it, it's still within the collection, but it could be back shelved, I think was the term that you used. But that, I didn't see that in here. The other concern I had in reading through this also was the committee that gets formed. You know, the librarian, which we have great librarians. And my wife was literally bragging on one of the librarians last night because she got to meet her for the first time. So there's the librarian and
035then at least one member of the instructional staff, so teacher of some sort. But then the rest of the committee seems to be very... Kind of just fluid it doesn't have any definition of who will be included so much as may be included and so I guess I'd want some reassurance from the district of how are those committees going to be built to make sure that parents are also represented there before you answer that I have a question in order to review a book How long does it take? The committee to review a book or how long has it taken or do you propose it's going to take? Forget this committee together to review a book When I met with the librarians, we determined a timeline. So once the librarian receives the complaint, they'll report
036it to the principal, and within 10 days, the principal will form a committee of the people that we mentioned and review the book. Within five days, the principal will respond to the parent or the complainant, whomever it is, and report the committee findings. So it should not take any more than 15 days to have an answer to parents. But then there's an appeal process as well. Correct. in the initial process if there's a higher level appeal of course it would go through the process here but i understand that process how long does it physically take i mean does everybody have to read the book i mean everybody get together and talk about it we're talking about taking out instruction time here i mean you know yes and the teacher could be someone in my office
037who did not have students directly it could be a curriculum specialist an ela curriculum specialist that could read the book But we need representation from all the levels. And of course, we need community input from it. So we'd have to have some parents. Well, that, again, coming back to the question I asked, is there's only two people listed as having to be on the committee. So what does the rest of the committee make up? Principal, librarian, teacher, or instructional specialist, a parent would be the four required ones. We prefer five people. OK, I didn't see four required. And a campus administrator. Can we have, say, some standing committee members for these reviews so that we're not just picking a parent committee member? Not we. Obviously, we're not picking anything. But we're not just picking a...
038I mean, at that point, I feel like there are a lot of people who are going to say, well, they're just going to pick the parent that's going to back up what they want to do. Yeah, but Tony, if you do that, then you're talking about taking away time from teachers and curriculum. We have to have a process. We have to have a process. Or community members. Oh, okay. We can certainly do that, but that parent would have to read any book. Sure. I think there are a lot of parents who would be willing to do that. Dr. Watson. What point does it come to a board level? through the appeal process. Once the campus makes a designation to the complainant, then it would come to the board. Which could be up to and including.
039But I thought I saw somewhere in here where that could be up to and including a year-long process. It could be. It depends on the timeline. I would hope that we wouldn't take a year to do that. So the paragraph that I'm citing, and not to skirt Crystal's concern, she started this whole thing, so we'll have to circle back to that for sure. is where it says that the principal will assign a committee. And then let me get back down to it here. The reconsideration committee shall include the librarian and at least one member of the instructional staff who has experience using the challenge material with students or is familiar with the challenge materials content. Other members of the committee may include district level staff, secondary level students, parents, other appropriate individuals. So, yeah, I
040don't see the principal listed in there. I don't see a parent listed in there. So how many people are going to be on the committee and who's going to make it up? Well, I think the policy is really broad. However, our librarians put in a process with a document to give the principals as a guiding document that we will use locally that will further define that. I also remember when you write policy, one of the reasons for writing policy is to just sort of guide the district. As the board, you guide the district or the administration in what to do. When you place in there specific people on there, let's just say I'm a female. I had a baby not too long ago. Let's say I'm the principal and I'm not here. Now it says
041the principal. What if we don't want a substitute principal to make that decision who's acting as the principal? Now your policy says it has to be. principle. So saying district level staff or district level administration gives leeway to make decisions at the moment because that could be that I'm now waiting for eight months for someone to come back or someone who's out on medical leave. I just picked on me as a female because it's an easy one, right? It's something that I was out for and if you needed me, there was nothing that could happen. So some of that policy is there. The other thing about your appeal process and how long it takes is This process, the EFB logo that's proposed is, hey, let's challenge a book. If you want to challenge a book,
042as a parent, you may not want your child to read it. You think this shouldn't be visible to any kid. And so you do the process. That's just for the first part of the process. If you want to appeal the decision, you then follow our normal process, which would be, and the reason it's three different letters there is because you can have three different types of people who are filing a complaint. And so FNG would be parent. DGBA would be employee and GK, am I right? I think it's GK. GF. GF. I forget the alphabet soup. That's your girlfriend. GK is... It's for a community member. So all of them have to follow their appeal process to file a complaint with the board. You would follow the normal appeal or the normal complaint process. So
043it shouldn't take a year because in almost every one, and they're slightly different. So some of them, the maximum is usually 15 days from the day you knew or should have known of your complaint that you filed a complaint. And then you have 10 days to hear it, 10 days to write a decision. Then you have 10 days to appeal. Then you have, and then we place it on the agenda. What it does is it gives you leeway that you don't have to put something on your agenda that very first week. So let's say this all happens in the day before the board agenda is going to be posted. You guys want to put it on, but none of you have the time to really read that book or know what's going on. You then
044can say, oh, we're going to postpone it to the next week or the next board meeting. So it gives you some leeway. That's where that year process probably comes in in order for you to understand it. um just understand you do have a a process that's there for someone to appeal and to ask for it and the informal portion of this this is more just an informal portion of it hey uh on these books were they there were they available six years ago five years ago yes they were some of them i guess i'm my wrapping my brain around Where this is coming from. It's a hot button topic right now. I mean, he booked me there five, ten, X amount of years ago. And the amount of checkouts that you're saying, Nyla, is very
045minimal. Now, there may be some new books out there. I mean, I know one or two new books that I wouldn't let my kids read at the elementary level. I mean, I know one right now, the top of my head, that should not be in our library system. And it's not, thank goodness. I mean, you know, I know there's some new books coming out, but man, golly. No, I agree. I was going to bring that up. I feel like we're looking for trouble where there is very little, but it's a hot topic issue right now. It's being spoken about everywhere. There are crazy board meetings happening everywhere. We have actual community members who are, you know. very like trying to get like this is happening in this district and it could happen here and it's
046like but it's not happening here and we're wasting time on it here so I think we're all saying the same thing I think that you know we care we want to make a difference we want to do due diligence I think that's what the they're doing here we're trying to build a process but I also think it's very difficult when Don't know what book that was in on age appropriate on that but I also on the other side of that What if a student? Read that and has a friend that went through that and I don't know how the book ends Is it more of a helpful supportive way and how we can help somebody? I don't know So again, you have to read the whole book, you know, and if it's an 18 year
047old That's an adult and I'm not saying I'm okay with it because I it sounds pretty graphic But I'm saying that the whole process looks at different viewpoints to make us caring people as well, to help kids with their safety, to understand that that's wrong. And so books encompass so many topics. It's hard to begin. But I understand, too, that you said there were no complaints. So we've, I guess. No formal complaints. No formal complaints. Okay. I think we're, and I'll speak not for Ms. Carbone, but I know this is. you know come across my desk as you would say as far as some of the things that i've seen but to both of y'all's point miss carter and miss weimer i think crystal i don't speak for her but i think where she's headed
048with this is basically i don't think anyone's disputing what would be what she mentioned specifically with the grandfather is what we consider the storyline right the grandfather you know the lgbt whatever the storyline might be but if you looked at some of the verbiage that describe the action. In any other environment, this would be considered porn. And you wouldn't let your 12-year-old daughter or son walk in and rent out a porn or a magazine. I mean, I think you used to have to be a certain age to buy that stuff. But we're saying, you know, so I think, I'm not speaking for Trustee Carbone or anyone else, but what I'm saying is, I don't think the question that comes in the hot topic is the storyline itself. I think it's the description, descriptive nature in
049which they describe the action that's happening. When you're using vulgar display of words to describe actions and things that are going on, it just, again, it goes back to age appropriateness. And I think what we want is we want to have some kind of control. If we see something... i don't think anyone in this room would disagree that if you have a young child that you things are the word age appropriate right no matter what you do in life things are age appropriate so i think where trustee carbone is and you can correct me if i'm if i'm wrong but it's what's age appropriate and how graphic is it can we review it can that be pulled what's the process and are we approving the right process as mr berger said does the process we're
050proving have enough teeth so that if we don't like the actual harshness of what's ever in there, we can do that. And so I guess I'll kick it back to Trustee Carbone and say, do you feel like the local policy doesn't go far enough and you're wanting to pull this item on the agenda to adopt the TEA? policy or do you want this back and further review for some things that you might be able to add in or not and I would go back to the question to you Mr. Berger again at any point and legally do you does the board have the ability without an appeal process to make a decision to pull a book out of the library isn't the district this is what they chose Mr. Berger to go this route and
051with the Miss Watson and all them This is the route they chose? The TASB route on that one? Yes, sir. Okay. Let me say one thing, guys. The TEA process involves you reviewing every book that we purchase. Sometimes we adopt 10,000 books or more, so you would get a list that's exhaustive. Okay, and there is no way that you're going to go through that entire list and for we buy books for four dollars and five dollars as part of a big collection of books That's how things like this kind of trickle into our system So we will buy from a publisher a huge amount of books and the librarians can't possibly read all those books So their shelf because they're recommended at as age-appropriate and some of these books that we're talking about are books
052that have one major of prizes and awards for being age appropriate for our for this age kids so they're in our libraries now i think some of them are going to rotate out as librarians weave their collections as a natural part of the process anyway and maybe like miss carter's saying we probably won't be talking about some of this in a few months however um and let me say when we're buying books If we're buying independent books, say the librarian's going to pick 20 books that she's going to buy independently. We have a review process. We have companies that review books, and they have credible sources where they review books that come from credible sources. And so those books are leveled as age appropriate. The high school books, which are what we're talking about, the
053process that the librarians have... put in place for next year is that high school reviewed for grades 9 through 12 or below use caution when reviews state explicit or mature material. So they're saying if the book comes up in a list like that, the librarian needs to use caution. Often, like the junior highs or the middle schools will get books and they'll look at them and think they're not age appropriate and they send them to the high schools. We don't want them on our campus. So at the high school level, there's so many books in collections, probably some have gotten by. I mean, they obviously have. But the librarians, I think, have vetted it very carefully. are confident that they're going to be able to weed their collections. Let me say that. So Dr. Watson,
054is there any ability for us to just, as a district, say, I'm going to sign my kid up to say they have full access or they don't have access to explicit and anything that's deemed explicit? We don't have any system in place at this time. There is not a field in Skyward the Filtrum. Is that logical? We could probably do that. I don't think there's a field in Skyward to do that automatically. We would have to write that program and pull that data. And that's something that would have to be done through technology. And it would be a huge process for us because we don't have anything in place for it. Well, yeah, and everything in the libraries would probably have to be flagged. I would think it would be like an endless amount of
055work. Because we'd have to label every book. Correct. Correct. Or you could just do it, you know, going forward, you know. That's what I would think. And that's, I think in the past there hasn't been as many. And I think the fear of people is the future. And like what is going to come, what policies are in place for if. an abundance if all 10,000 of them are awful then how are we gonna do that you know and so I think it's a perfect conversation for everybody to have and for everyone in our community to know that we all are concerned on some kind of level so I definitely appreciate the explanation and it makes a lot of sense and I know there's no perfect answer or like one size fits all for everybody and
056I think we just have to do our best to make sure that, you know, we do have, you know, I like Crystal's idea of just, you know, if there is a book that, you know, is deemed, you know, not, yeah, questionable, then, you know, parents can have this process and then have that, you know, put aside and or. Parents can call librarians and say, they can ask for a list of books that their kids check out. and they can tell the librarian. Now, the issue in the library is you guys know student age check out books and they can't see holes on kids accounts. We can't do that. And some campuses have student check out where they just scan their books and go. Is there no way to make that system viewable to the parents?
057Not that I'm aware of. There may be, and I don't know about it. It seems that Conroe ISD has figured out some kind of shareware or opportunity that parents can have immediate access to those books. I'm just trying to think of both sides of the field, right? I have a certain personal feeling about all of this and some of the texts that I've read that I would not want my girls to pick up, especially without my knowledge and being able to have conversations with them. This is real life stuff. You're going to hear about these kinds of things through all kinds of venues. And I'm not naive enough to think that they won't learn about these kinds of things on their phone. when they get them and they're not getting them until 18, but that's
058beside the point. That's the worst nightmare on the planet right there, the bus stop. I mean, we've already had some difficult conversations about topics I wasn't really prepared for, and they were in bridge program and through a church. So I'm not naive enough to know that these conversations aren't. happening but proactive parents who want to have knowledge about what's going on in their child's education should have an open-ended opportunity to learn about what their kids are checking out to have or at least be able to modify and know that this content won't be in their child's hands without their permission and so I do think that the parent is the best educator and it should be completely responsible and have a tangible part in their child's education and so I feel like that helps both
059sides those that want the content there the content can stay unless somebody objects to it but then those that want to know that their child's not being exposed to this material will have the ability to know that their child won't get it from our libraries Well, and that's a good point that what you're saying is some of the things that you're talking about is processes, that is not policy. So one of the things that I hear you saying you want, and Mr. Berger, tell me to stop if you don't want me to say it. No, I think you're going to say the same thing I was going to say. We can look at processes in order to help achieve that goal, but policy is different. We don't need to codify. our processes because then if
060as things come up or we learn it doesn't work, then we have to keep coming back every single time to work the process where the process we can continually review with the administration. But the policy says, hey, even given this process, if there's something that you just think should not be on the shelf for every kid, not just your kid, because we can have a process for your kid, but if it's for every kid. then you need to go through this big process because that's making a decision for all kids in the whole district you're not limited to just your kid and so what i'm what i'm thinking is is we can probably look at processes while considering the policy as is or whatever revisions you want but i'm just saying i think keep in
061mind that processes and policy are two different things so speaking coming back to policy you know they still when this went out and forgive me i'm having technical issues so i don't have access to everything that i had um There were some of the lists that you referred to that we use to purchase collections. So we go to these curated lists that are by trusted experts and whatnot. I clicked on one of them, and it was most of the content I saw was, at least the recent content, was hyper-political. That doesn't mean the book list is, but the cover of their magazine is a political statement. And so I don't want to... I don't want to just abdicate our responsibility and say, well, these lists are good. We know that if it's on a list,
062then it's a good thing, right? Obviously, the librarians are our first line of defense. And so hopefully they are curating, even if they get a large collection and weeding the collection, like you said. I do think that on the policy side, I have concerns about the makeup of the committee, as I've already expressed, because the committee is defined in the policy. I would like to see the committee be defined to include a member of the community not just educators and we did say that dr scheffler maybe i didn't make that clear but we did specifically say we'd have a community member i saw it as an option i do not see it as will be included i see it may be included in in the policy i'm looking at paragraph that I read a little
063was looking at EFB page four and where it says that I mean if that's a revision that the board would like to see we can we can definitely bring that back we can revise that to where it will be shall and the detail the exact type of members we would like to see line in the big reason is because all these proceedings are clandestine the person who brings the complaint doesn't have a right to audit them And so there has to be some level of transparency to the public. And I don't think the process or the policy, forgive me, wrong word, the policy we have here ensures transparency. The other part was the, we haven't, I didn't see anything in here that discussed e-resources. And so is there a different policy there? Okay. So let
064me talk about that. First of all, our students have access to the Almond Community College Library, the Harris County Library, Brazoria County Library, and the state database, which is huge. And in those databases, if you're a diligent kid, you can find anything you want to find. And we can't control it. We can't manage it because things move in and out of those collections, and there are millions of resources. So on that part, we have no control whatsoever. That's why us as parents have to. Talk to our kids about what they're reading. Correct. Parents have to do diligence. Parents have to have conversation with kids. Parents can certainly call and see what a child is checking out. And we don't have a system at this point, Crystal. I mean, we could explore something, but I don't
065know of any options available at this moment. That's a the advice to families from me is exactly what you're saying is have the conversation with your kids have some family standards of what you'll allow in your household and what you won't review what your kids are reading and Just as someone with grown kids and very old. I found that if I talk to them about reading I don't know. It's really easy, especially with teenagers, to push them the opposite direction than you want them to go. So if you start saying, I don't want you reading this book, the first thing they're going to do is go out and read that book. And if you ask them, if you say, I want you to read this book, they don't want to read it. They don't want
066to read, period. But if I just ask them, hey, what are you reading? Half that if they don't think they're gonna get judgment for me a lot of the times they'll tell it to me and then I can say you know that sounds like a heavy topic for you and I'm concerned that that might be a little much, you know Do you mind if I read it or do you want to talk about it or? Maybe you should put it away until next year that sort of thing because Honestly, if we start trying to keep kids from reading this stuff, that's just gonna make them want to go read stuff It has happened in every community where there's been a big push for banning a whole bunch of books is the first thing they do
067is those teenagers get together and they start band book clubs and they start reading everything and passing it around to each other i would say my my fear is the younger children and just not really knowing what they're reading so yeah no i don't know that that is but these are but i think that's also a lot of the concern out there it's just like it's really kind of an unknown concern because it is such a widely known topic that i think it's just like a good discussion to kind of educate parents who do have younger kids who are growing up. I think it's, in my opinion, for the population that I am around the most, it's more a fear, you know, what is my child going to have? What are they exposed to? You
068know, is it going to change their thinking? And can I protect them from this? And so it's more of an... protecting a child's innocence, not keeping a teenager from reading a graphic novel. Unfortunately, there's always somebody ready to ruin your child's innocence. For Crystal's idea with having a permission slip or something like that, I think it is a good futuristic conversation to have because we do have kids going through school for... Forever. So, you know, something in the future. I know currently my kids take AR tests. So when they do go on and they read the book and they take the AR test, I do get an email and it does tell me what book they read. And I do, I love it because then I can go read the book and I can question
069them or I can grab it and say, hey, I saw that you missed this or that. And so I think it's a fun way to connect with younger kids and knowing what they read and what they checked out or. Honestly, my kids have lost library books and I don't even know what it is until I get the fine. So maybe just knowing like, hey, where is, you know, Pete the Cat and whatever. So I think there would be a lot of benefits in having that transparency in a futuristic goal if the technology does exist so that parents did know what minors were reading. I do not want to curtail the conversation if more needs to happen, but I may offer this suggestion that based on everything that has been talked about here, we can readjust
070the policy to include kind of what you're talking about of codifying what's on the committee to where it's a shall, like we mentioned with the Carol ISD one from the TEA, and we can bring the policy back to you. At the same time, we can research some of the processes with... our library software, the availability to track or communicate with the parents, any of the other procedures like the back shelf and what the librarians have already discussed as far as processes and bring that back to you for just the EFA, EFB and also share the processes that we've formulated in more detail based on the questions that have been asked. Yeah, I think that's helpful. I think the only thing that... the when i was thinking registering my kiddos there were certain consent forms towards
071the end that i had to sign that were typed up kind of towards the back and i can't remember for the life of me what that last one was but I know that that seems like an easy way at the beginning of every school year to insert another document for a signature at the beginning of the year and then just move on from there. But all that to say, I make a motion that we approve item five, approve, revise, or delete board policies, including TASB localized policy 119, revise TEAB local, rescind EF local, and adopt EFA local, and postpone the conversation of EFB local. until the next board meeting. Second. So just a little discussion there. For if we're coming back to revisit that so a request would be that on the if we're worried
072about Codifying who has to be on the committee and it's someone who's extremely busy like say mr Superintendent over here adding I didn't see in there if there was or designee. There was designee. Okay, so designee and then Lastly on the e resources question since we are going to come back and revisit this if we have any kind of metrics or data that shows how often those resources are being accessed or specific resources. Because you know what happens, right? Junior high boy discovers, hey, I can see boobies on this site. And they just tell all their friends. And then if there's any kind of monitoring or metering that we can look at. I'm not aware of any for those electronic resources, particularly not the big databases, not the state and Alvin Community College. Those places,
073we don't have any access to monitoring. I would like to, because I know there's a motion in a second, but I would like to clarify with our attorney. So are we talking about... do we need to come back to adopt the policy if there's a language change that we are all accepting right now or and are we as a board saying we want to come back and talk about the process so can you clarify if we adopt it tonight with the language changes that mr. burger has presented we can do that or do we have to come back when it's written on the agenda you can you can make the motion to say that we want to adopt EB EFB I'm sorry EFB with these particular changes and we'll take them to TASB and you
074can adopt it. The concern that I have is that if you rescind EF, you can't actually just have EFA because now you don't have library materials and you still have to have something. So you'd have to leave EF as it is and then we could come back for EFA and EFB at a later time with the changes or the recommendation. Would it be easier just to do everything all at once? Well, I guess it can be two. That's what I'm saying. You either have to do E, you should either, I recommend you leave EF as is and we bring it back in the future with EFA and EFB, or you can make the changes now as Mr. Murphy is suggesting that you make the statement and you say what you want to change, the amendments
075to the policy, and you can adopt it tonight. So then I would ask. For you mr. Berger to clarify what we're bringing back to change if he's making recommended language changes language currently the the recommended language change is specifically related to the formal reconsideration committee where in the policy TASB it is Only listing shall as the librarian at least one member of the instructional staff whereas we would change it to the reconsideration committee shall include five members one district representative one campus representative two parents and a district level representative who will serve as the chair of the committee So again can we but my question again so what he's just read can we adopt that language tonight or what are we bringing it back for to do the same thing yes your motion would be
076that you recommend to okay adopt that language Update 119 the next there. I don't have the letters in front of me D. Yeah, the FB is one Yeah, then you you're gonna do EFA and you're gonna do EFB with the recommended changes and just what he stated you would state them Okay, so while we're still in discussion, I guess I would ask from the board members Is there any reason why they would need to bring this back if yes? There is. Because I want to hear what the district has planned for the safeguards for parents to be able to have more. I mean, we talked about it in the first part of this that we're going to. Where is that line item about having extreme transparency with our parents? regarding everything that happens with library
077books and I'd like more understanding of what that transparency is going to look like. Okay. So is that, but is that back to process report or is that a procedural vote? Because if we vote tonight, you can, can you come back with a report from Ms. Carbone on the process? Just to clarify. I don't think that we can come back with a process. To, um, to report. I like the way that Carol ISD and the TEA policy also has more meat behind what the penal code looks like and the exact line items explaining what penal code 4324 is so that when they pull up this policy, they don't have to go searching somewhere else for that. And on those two measures, for the first one that you mentioned, Ms. Carbone, for the transparency, that would
078not change any policy update. That language would stay there. It would be the processes that we proposed to you that would show the transparency. And then on, if you wanted to add the language, although TEA lists that it's penal code 4324, if you want to outline what she's talking about, is it specifically pulls the penal code and lists the three factors that are listed in the penal code. so instead of just saying it's the penal code it tells you exactly what the three factors are so we could add that language to it as well if you would like are you okay amending your motion then so that would ask those things yeah i would ask are you okay i'll make amend a motion to approve item five with the policy um recommendation policy change recommendations
079that we've discussed here tonight i'm not sure i'm sorry i hate to drag this out but i'm not sure i'm clear on what the carol isd penal code it's not a on the carol isd policy um if you pull the tea policy it just says avoiding inappropriate material and it has the texas penal code and then it defines what that penal code is it's basically just a restatement of the of the actual penal code okay and the one that we have just has the penal code listed we could just outright say no this is unacceptable If it falls within here, it doesn't have to be formally charged. I'll second your motion too, Crystal. Okay. Because it's the harmful material. It defines what harmful materials are. Penal code is the definition. Okay. All right. So I
080have a motion by Trustee Carbone and a second by Trustee Scheffler. Is there any further discussion before we call for the vote? Okay. Hearing no, we'll go ahead and call for the vote. All those in favor, raise your hand. Thank you. All those opposed? None opposed motion carries seven to zero and then we will come back for a process review with staff on Those processes in a later date All right Thank you. Thank you so much. So that takes care of all of our new business with consent agenda. We have reports that have been in your agenda for your reading pleasure. And this time we will convene into closed session. I think, Mr. Berger, I don't think we need staff to stay, correct? Only one. Only one. Perfect. Okay. So at this time. The Board
081of Trustees of the Independent School District will now convene into a closed meeting to discuss the following items posted on our agenda this evening. As allowed by Title V, Chapter 551 Government Code, the Superintendent will present for the Board's consideration in matters of 071, 072, 074, 076, and 082. No voting will take place during the closed meeting. Any action the Board wishes to take as a result of discussion And in closed session will take place after the board reconvenes. It is now 610 and we are convened to closed session. Thank you. That's right. Eight. All right. The board will reconvene in open session at 721. No action was taken in closed session. Mr. President, I move that we accept and approve the superintendent's recommendation for employment of personnel as presented. Second. All right. We have
082a first by Ms. Carbone and a second by Trustee Carter on personnel. Hearing any further discussion, I'll call for the vote. All those in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries, 7-0. All right, Superintendent Berger, that concludes our meeting tonight. We will adjourn at 721. It's kind of anticlimactic, huh, Dr. Gannon?