001uh hearing uh with 603 deborah when you're ready i'll let paul call the meeting order okay i call the order the regular meeting of the building board of appeals for the city of ann arbor for june 17 roll call thank you flack uh president and i'm in ann arbor thank you very much uh jeff perkins president ann arbor all darling president and i'm an ann arbor and bruce carson i think he resigned did bruce resign glenn was that house that is correct for staff we have uh glenn dempsey i'm here in mason michigan randy lewis president and in adrian michigan mike lemieux president ann arbor michigan myself deborah williams in ann arbor roll call is complete and we do have a quorum [Music] we have five uh five staff it's like five board members okay
002um next item on the agenda is the approval of the agenda do we have a motion to approve the agenda so moved second second who's the favor aye aye all right agenda is approved the next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes from the may 20th 2021 meeting those were sent out and uh an updated copy sent out this morning today neither any other comments on the minutes from the board move to approve if not give you a motion to approve the minutes removed second second who's in favor say hi minutes are approved and then public commentary general do you have any public commentary uh deborah we have no one in the waiting room for public commentary i believe these are all participants okay appeals and appeals actions and show cost hearing the
003first item on the agenda is appeal 21-1187 at 603 east liberty street and over michigan so we'll ask the applicant to uh give a brief summary of their first it would be a staff report and then the applicant will give a brief summary of what the request for appeal is and then we will have uh the board asks after questions and then make a motion um one way or the other so can we have a snap report yes um 603 east liberty came in with an application to to provide a to add to the construction that would possibly allow the property loan to have an opening which was denied uh the property line will is the intended and it's intended to move the property line to that location which they had applied for but it
004was denied as code did not allow um you've seen the the code uh the code commentary that's been provided uh when that was applied for there are other two other buildings that are coming into play with this so this uh hearing is for the openings for 603 east liberty that will go into these other two buildings while the project that was submitted was a modification to their common wall um i felt it was proper to submit all three because i think the project total project is what uh is being looked at at this time it doesn't mean that the buildings will be approved for 212 cell state or 616 what west washington it's just the means allowing them to continue on with design um as the openings are on the property lines for all three
005buildings intended in the future here in the near future um so the applicant has applied and submitted information that he feels will be better or equivalent or better than what is required i will tell you that in the three foot from the property line there is technically no openings allowed and so they have proposed that they're going to have fire doors and shutters along with a deluge system a suppression system at that uh at that at the openings that are proposed for each of those openings are on the property lines one going from six one six or i'm sorry one going from the 603 east liberty to two one two cell state the other opening going to the uh 616 uh west washington from 603 east liberty then there are two other there's another fire
006door that goes from 616 to 212. those would be the intended three three openings the fourth opening is an egress path that goes to the right that allows access into the alley which will take them to the public right way the intended idea there is that they'll get approvals from 603 east liberty or which is the michigan theater for access and no build of that location entering into the alley staff would neither support nor deny or recommend denial we will stand mute on this um so with that uh that staff report okay thank you glenn can the applicant uh with a brief summary of their requests for the uh uh variants yeah um brad moore here um it's good to see everybody again um the last time i was before you was for a similar
007condition um over on can't hear you brad for some reason everything just reset can you hear me now we can hear you now all right um brad moore here i don't know where it cut me off when i decided to reset my screen but um i was saying the last time i was before the board was for a property uh down on south university again connecting two properties um in a similar manner so we've we've used what what worked there in terms of the minds of the board members to provide adequate separation between adjacent buildings while still permitting an internal connection to inform our approach in in this situation um i've got um other team members here with me today um scott bowers and uh and laura uh edder with esg architects who are all
008part of the team working to make this uh happen um i've also submitted today and i know that deborah said she received it a letter of support from the michigan theater who is urging an approval of this requested variance the requested variance is both enhance an existing condition as well as uh create a new condition affording the michigan theater the ability to have fully modern upgraded restrooms an improvement over the situation that they have now scott has uh worked with the building department to arrive at an enhancement of the current cross property connection and i'll let scott jump in and start there and then he can um hand it off to laura to describe uh or maybe they're going to go the opposite direction i'll let them decide who wants to go first i'll let
009you go first but i was going to ask deborah if it was possible for me to share my screen unfortunately it's not um because it's a city zoom account if you want to send something to me real quickly i can open it up okay great thank you i'll do that scott do you want to start while i send this it's got you there maybe his screen reset too yeah mine reset sorry um currently there's an existing opening between the uh the lobby of the michigan theater and the screening room um we've it is across property line um we're intending to build a firewall against the michigan theater but in the what was a pedestrian hallway by the screening room um a true firewall separating the two buildings a three-hour with a fire shutter on the
010screening room side and uh two 90-minute doors on the lobby side with a deluge system we feel that that is more than more than safe compared to what it is there right now it was originally approved as a pedestrian walkway the building does have a three-hour firewall between the or three-hour wall between the hallway and the screening room as it exists right now um and that was approved back in 1998 so it's been in use since then we're just enhancing it now and making it a better situation the other door we're discussing is one from the lobby to the new proposed bathrooms [Music] a similar situation we'll have a 90-minute door in the wall um to the michigan theater lobby on the other side there will be a shutter and laura can explain more what
011she's going to do on that side because that's 212 and 616 are esg's projects so the reason why we've moved these is one for to build the 616 project and to enhance the the toilet facilities that we have in the michigan theater it's either quite far away down the long hallway and we're bringing them closer to the lobby is is newly constructed bathrooms ada issues family bathroom and increasing fixture counts um it would have worked better with a drying top but that's fine it's also on page 24 in the packet for today so if you go to page 24 there's a detail on the plan um that kind of describes these different conditions so the two that scott just described as door number one and door number three um and hopefully um you'll get to
012see a screen soon scott do you have anything else or did you want me to jump in on that no you might as well jump in because uh it's difficult without the uh lines yes no problem um so i'm laura eder with esg architects and um we are the architects for the new 616 and 212 building um which 616 is on the property to the north of the michigan theater which includes the screening room and then the 212 state street is actually on the sava property so it is an additional building on that property there is a property line between the michigan theater 212 and 616. and as glenn described door number one two and three which connects between the michigan theater uh you can just go back to that plan that's fine thanks thanks
013debra i appreciate it um those those openings are across property lines as scott described opening number one is an existing opening between the michigan theater and the screening room that is currently across a property line we are proposing to add a three-hour fire shutter and a three-hour wall along the that um that northern side of the property line um with that deluge water curtain sprinkler in between the door and the fire shutter door number two which is kind of um in the top we'll call it the top left corner of the light blue shaded area that gets you into the restroom lobby area has two fire shutters the northern property on 616 would be a 90 minute rated fire shutter and that two-hour wall and then the southern one would be a three-hour fire rated
014shutter shutter in that three-hour wall and then that would also have that fire sprinkler curtain deluge system between those two doors as well and then door number three is between the restrooms and the michigan theater on the um western property lines that would have a 90-minute door in the two-hour existing michigan theater wall and then it would have a three-hour fire shutter in the 2-1-2 building with that deluge sprinkler system head in between those two that head allows us to um have kind of a redundant system in case one of the fire shutters didn't work or something happened you now have that third level of protection at that opening so we feel that that's an extra level of protection at those openings since openings are not allowed on within three feet of the property line
015so those three door openings are similar where we're trying to keep the fire rating of the wall with a door in each wall and then the southern one which is door number four is the egress for the restrooms so the restrooms in the lobby to the residential building this five-story 212 building that we have here there is no connection between the residential portion and these restrooms for the michigan theater that this first floor restaurant is solely for the michigan theater so we are not crossing back into any buildings going north or west but we are going to need to um exit the restrooms if for some reason the fire alarm was to go off while somebody was in those restrooms so we are taking that door to the south and swinging across the property line
016which that property is owned by the michigan theater and would be a no-build easement and they also have a private alley egress easement as well for their three doors that come out on the eastern facade there but we and and one of the things what i wanted to point out as well is that um these three proposed openings do not involve any of the egress paths for any of the properties so if if these doors and fire shutters were all the deploy all the other adjacent spaces have adequate egress paths that don't involve needing to go through those openings right that's correct um that's everything that i had to describe those openings and the um [Music] and the appeal that we're we're here to present today let me know if you have any questions okay
017thank you is there anybody else on your team scott did you have any other comment or are you no laura did a great job okay great thank you so now open it up to members from the board to see if they have any questions for the applicant i have a couple of questions um if i understand this correctly i see door number four actually exits from the building to an exterior condition and two and three basically are interior to the structure um when i think about this i realize the ownership there's there's different ownership for the properties but i guess my question is from a uh code standpoint if these let's say this entire building was all under single ownership there were no property lines there are the means of protection that you're providing over
018and above what would be considered for normal fire separation between these spaces yes if there was no if there were no property lines there would be a one-hour occupancy separation and that would be it so i guess my question is from a practical standpoint even though there's separate ownership this is all one building why does this three foot property line rule come into play i can see where if it were door number four um which goes to the exterior where there might be some issue there but i personally don't see an issue when you're all in in effect all within the same building let me add just a nuance uh jeff i don't know that i can answer that question but i can add a little bit of nuance to the the the picture that
019may or may not help you um we have uh three uh tax parcels like tax ids you know one is the michigan theater 603 the other is the 212 south state and then the third one is the 616th east washington and even though those will be three separate tax ids both 616 and 212 212 will be a condominium form of ownership so the michigan theater will own the condo unit that represents those bathrooms that sit on two and two and they will also own the condominium unit on 616 that represents the screening room so there's a there's a subtlety there that is uh maybe it's just legalese um but the there will be property lines there because there will be separate tax id numbers but michigan theater will have ownership of the screening room and
020they will have ownership of that bathroom component of two and two so it is probably an animal that isn't completely anticipated by the code but shares aspects with both sides of the code you know the side that says well it's all under one ownership why do you need it but also it has a foot in the side of the code it says they cross property lines so um i think that we're just taking this approach out of an abundance of caution i i appreciate that and i understand it and respect it i just feel from a practical standpoint forcing uh building owners to spend this kind of money to solve a problem that wouldn't be there when it's all under one roof i think is unfortunate and i appreciate that the building owners and architects
021have come up with solutions that address an aspect of the code that i don't think the code was ever able to anticipate so i just i guess that's the clarification i needed if if if these were all under the same ownership on the same parcel of property what you're doing here would be totally unnecessary i just want that to be on the table right yeah hold that thought for the next item on the agenda after this one so i think another another another piece of this too is these are three buildings because they have different heights and area requirements so that may drive some fire separations between them too i think one's five stories i'm not sure what the 616 is that's multiple stories where michigan theater is a different construction type in much you
022know a smaller area but uh yeah so the so the first level of the 212 building is going to be type 1a it's going to be a podium style with a three hour horizontal separation at the ceiling so at level two and then the 616 building is also a type 1a building and it'll be 19 stories so type of construction unlimited area between those two is um is the same but the existing um michigan theater screening room is a type 3b so that one does have area limitations it's well under its area limitation as as it stands today and then um the michigan theater is um we'll call it from the previous code before we were in the types one through five all buildings are all buildings are fully sprinkled uh your fire shutter doors
023are gonna be all tied to the michigan theater's fire alarm system um our plan is to tie them to both so regardless of which building has a fire alarm trigger or activate we will um we will close both doors so if i'm in the bathroom and the alarm goes off and the fire shutter door shuts uh am i gonna panic because i think i can't get out um that will be egress sign but yes you will you will not be able to go back into the building you'll have to go out that exit door on the south okay so that'll shut regardless at some point of whether the theater alarm goes off or the other building's alarm goes off right yeah okay correct i'm just concerned or the thought i had was just people not
024knowing what to do once the fire the door shuts because uh and they feel they're trapped or something well one communication system that's going to be put in there that would instruct people how to get out if they're on the bathroom side when that shutter comes down or sign besides signage or um yeah there's the there's the ability to have the communication system tell you which direction to go but yes they'll they'll be the required signage as well that says not an exit above those bathroom doors and i believe the computer needs to be paging system and then the other with fire shutter doors is obviously if somebody sticks something there and the door can't shut all the way i'm making sure that there's clearance for the shutter door to shut i've always struggled with
025that in my previous life well and that's part of the reason we have a belt and suspenders approach in that the water curtain would activate if there actually was a fire um and and so even if there was some deployment issue with with either of the fire shutters we know we've got the ability to prevent the communication of that smoking flame is door number three between the lobby and the restroom area is that a door that's gonna hold open or is that gonna be a closer on that door what's the position of that doors in most in most cases because you have the 90 minutes or one side and the shutter on the other side right it builds that assembly my understanding is that and laura you could correct me and scott my understanding is
026they would have uh magnetic hold opens that would be also uh you know integrated with the alarm yes that's my understanding as well okay that is correct and the deluge system would be activated based on heat to trigger the sprinkler to go off yeah yes so basically if the fire alarm gets to the point where if the fire gets to a point where the sprinklers go off in any building then that daily system will also activate i think in the next appeals a similar kind of question is are the bathrooms in a different building than the then the use and how do we address that can you have bathrooms in an adjacent building plumbing cost wise i guess they're under the same ownership but they're technically different buildings and maybe that was the case even
027when it was in the screening room it is most of this is very similar to what we have right now at the michigan theater except of course we get a fully modern fully ada compliant uh bathroom facilities with more fixtures which i don't know how often you go to the michigan theater but my wife would greatly appreciate more fixtures i did the count and i see there's a lot more facilities for the women than there are for the men so my wife would agree with you as well i guess that's what happens when your architect is a woman right thank you laura so are the are the rated doors that are going into the michigan theater lobby are they are they on magnetic hold opens yes they are okay that's both sets that the pair
028doors into the screening room and the the one that goes into the bathrooms both sets okay and if the sprinkler system gets triggered in either building will that also activate the shutters coming down yes is that true for six one six so they each want to be tied to the adjacent building it won't be all three together it'll be basically to the adjacent building let's share the wall so you want you will be tied to that shutter i would think the alarm sets off the shutter not the fact that there's a fire near the shuttle the alarm would the alarm would set the activate the shutter and the fire would activate the deluge system yeah and i don't know from a practical standpoint are we not imposing well i shouldn't say we're imposing because frankly
029i'm going to go out a limb on a limb and tell you that if this proposal came back to us treating these openings as though they were all in the same building without the shutters and deluge system i would support it and glenn will probably kick me off the board for putting that out there but i just from a practical standpoint i think we're making this situation less safe if i'm in that bathroom and the door that i came through uh gets shuttered and barred and another door within 10 feet of it is shuttered and barred and i don't know that door number four is there i'm gonna feel trapped so i think if anything we've made this building less safe from a user standpoint panic is i can just see it as a real
030issue i am not opposed to what you're doing here i'm just sorry that you're having to do it one suggestion we could do is follow the new firewall rules where you can actually put one opening within two walls of a firewall so in the 2015 code um there is now the ability i think it's nfpa 221 allows you to do one door and a double firewall so what we could do is put three man doors at these locations that would close at the point of a fire alarm keep the daily system so you still have that redundant system but lose the fire shutters so that you still have that three hour rating and you still have the fire daily system but um you're no longer preventing egress from happening if somebody were to get into
031a point and if you open the door you might see a fire i guess you'd close it and run the other way um laura you said 2015 code did you mean no it's the 2015 um ibc that that allows the um nfpa 2 i think it's 221 that does the double um double firewall with a single um rated opening so you don't have to do two doors in a firewall glenn do we know if if that uh telegraphs into the 2015 nbc i don't think that exceptions in there was probably written out but uh [Music] take a look here one section are you talking about uh what section was it nfpa 221 i think she said no i don't have that accessibility without a little bit of time of getting online then yeah i mean
032we could we could say that something in a you know more recent version of the code is we could apply that as a as a you know justification that would be allowed in a more current code so that's good to know if i might add um the michigan building code may not direct you to that nfpa or the mechanical code may not direct you to the nfpa so it may direct you to the ifc which may be different that's something that wasn't looked at i don't know if you anticipate a lot of false alarms in this building too being a residential there too is that having that shutter come down with a lot of false alarms it'd be troubling i mean if it was a real event uh um but you wouldn't want anything dropping
033once a week once every every two weeks well once that shutter goes down usually it takes somebody of a little expertise like maintenance to be able to get the thing to go back up i mean if your second means regress right it was out of the same space you could see the other door like we went through the north wall there i think that would be an option people would see the accident but the fact that they would have to travel back through the restroom to get to the other doors is a you know difficulty that's my problem is um the net your natural instinct when the alarm goes off is to go back out the way you came in and um if it's during intermission and those bathrooms are full i i it scares
034me yeah it's not a clear eager path through there man it could be tight there's probably might yeah if i might add uh and i can't i don't see where i can raise my hand i'm sorry for that um keep in mind that while the instinct is noted in the code that you do travel back through the same way you came if you are unable to it should be well lit up with signage and exiting you know exiting signage to get you out and i don't think the distances are that far i'd refer that back to either scott or brad or you know whatever to to give us a dimension but i i think it should be pretty visible that there is another round out so we would have we would have exit signs over
035both of the bathroom doors the men's and women's door would have exit signs and we'd have exit signs at the south part of those rooms as well that would be illuminated um so that'd be an emergency accident people don't use those on a common basis and they get back to the lobby that way then i i don't think the i'm sorry but i don't think the exit uh was going back into the lobby that's two others if you put exercise there people might think that maybe that's another way they can get from the restroom back to the lobby and it's really an emergency exit only it sounds like you wouldn't be exiting that way maybe you could actually do that after a show you could actually that way too or you want to prevent people
036from acting that way on a normal basis it's going to be an emergency exit yeah so that that door going out to the uh to the alley would have an alarm a localized alarm on it well to jeff's point though imposing the shutters um makes you go through a much more convoluted egress path for the uh the screening room i mean that is a that that's a that corridor just winds around forever through multiple doors to get out um so i could i could easily i could also support not putting the shutters in which begs the question what would be the rating for the doors if you had just doors they'd be 90 minutes we could do 90 minute or 180 and 80 minute doors either way right now the doors that are shown are
037in 90 minute doors because they're in the existing michigan theater walls which are two-hour rated exterior wall so with all this conversation i'd like to jump in one more time here keep in mind that this is not a preference but how you feel if it's equivalent or better and that's what they're that's what they're seeking the variance on for the exception well personally i think an equivalent thing would be to provide doors that meet the uh fire code re separation requirements based on the different building types and occupant load for the spaces that that to me would be an equivalent solution to the problem deluge systems and fire shutters and all of that stuff to me is overkill and it's it's an expense on the building owner that hopefully they're never needed but uh when
038they are needed they might actually be a less safe situation so well the problem with fire doors though is that with a panic bar it's typically a one-way movement so if that door shuts because the alarm goes off you're in the bathroom you still come can't go back through that door like it was a shutter because they'd be pushing everybody the other way you don't want people running back into the fire i just want i just want to clarify something uh with laura um it's it's my understanding that there are potentially three different scenarios that would activate the shutters laura one is if we if there was a fire in the theater as i understand that would close the door to the screening room and its attendance shutter and also the door to the bathroom
039in its attendance shutter but wouldn't that wouldn't the opening between 616 and 212 remain open in that scenario since there's no fire in 616 yes so i think we're in a scenario that the only time when you would have both of those doors uh that that are doors you would have come through potentially to get to the bathroom the only time that both of those would deploy simultaneously would be if the fire was actually in the bathrooms or in the building above right it could be in the building above as well so in the apartment unit could could be that horizontal assembly a different building or is that just a separation between uses that three hour horizontal that's a building separation or is that a it's a building type construction separation um so it'll be
040a type 5a building above the type 1a building but because we're exiting through this level that it's part of the same building [Music] for fire alarm system if i heard that correctly then if the fire is in the bathroom uh and that's the only time that those uh egress points aren't going to be valid that's when the shutters drop so if i'm in the bathroom and the fire breaks out i can't get out what if what if the fire is down by door number four then what do i do well based on the occupancy you're only required one means of egress if there's less than 50 occupants and we have a total of 47 but i do i do realize your um your normal thought through a michigan theater bathroom break during a show and
041you might really have 50 people or so packed in there so you're waiting as well as people using it mm-hmm right but if a fire breaks out by door number four and that's and the shutters drop that door number four is now my only way out of the bathroom and it's the fire is there i can't go that way i'd love for this to be cut and dried for the petitioner but i'm not going to oppose what you're doing here i just don't think it is equivalent to or creates a safer condition maybe actually you could suggest maybe if laura can submit that additional information about the nfpa 221 and you can look at putting a single door that swung the right direction in back into the live like they're showing it there now the
042people could still egress that so even you don't have a shirt that closes people could still exit through that back in the lobby with a single door that was you know 180 minutes that may i mean still have the second means of egos out of that out of that space but it's not the primary way out would that be for only for that door or would you be looking at that as doors towards the screen i mean i guess you could look at it it would replied anytime they have a whatever there's a firewall or a extra wall an opening in it you could have a good look at that applying toward that if it was applicable to what we're doing here but that would give us a equivalency potentially what does not having this
043resolve today do for you as far as your critical path for construction and so forth uh i mean could you take a second look at this and bring something back to us that um i mean if you want to go ahead with this like i said i i'm not going to oppose it but i i would be certainly willing to entertain some safer alternatives jeff what i think it is is that we knew that we could put the openings whether it's this way or the the proposed alternate we could continue on moving forward while we come back with that improvement for these doors so this does so if you come back to us this that would not hold up the rest of your timeline for your project uh as long as we can keep it
044moving pretty quickly i i can't speak for terry um but i would assume that if we knew the openings are there we wouldn't uh cause a redesign for the whole structure to figure out how to make this work i don't have a problem with the location of the openings i don't know how the rest of the board feels the locations to me are fine they make sense i just don't like the treatment of of having to shutter off exit points and so forth so yeah this is terry with esg architects um would we be talking about roughly a month in in time if we came back with a better solution that's typically [Music] so i i guess jeff i'm trying to uh wrap my head around what what the thought is are you thinking we
045would are you thinking that the bba would table it today and then we would submit supplemental and information and potentially revised approach and be on the next month's agenda yeah i don't know what the i don't know what the deadlines are deborah can speak to that but i'd like to see you get rid of the shutters um well so why can't we why don't we float a motion in that regard yeah could it be approved with conditions today i can make a motion and see if it flies that's your specialty bob thank you bob so i i do have one small thing that about the bathroom egret even though the the um occupancy doesn't require the door to swing in the direction of travel but it does i just wonder whether those two other doors
046that are leading into that little vestibule could also be reconfigured so that everything flows in the same direction that would be 27 and 19. yeah again this is terry with esg i think we could easily do that bob that's a simple modification i'm paul i'm ready okay um i'm reading from the appeal granted um portion of the packet i moved that in case bba 21-003 the appeal of the building officials decision that the work to be performed at 603 east liberty was granted relief from section 705.8.1 and table 705.8 and the building board of appeal reverses the building officials decision for the reasons that the applicant is proposing an equal or better form of construction in so far as it will be using rated 180 minute fire doors in combination with a deluge system in
047lieu of the proposed fire shutters at double firewall conditions um and that those doors will be interconnected to the 616 212 and 603 fire alarm systems and that further that the doors from the restroom doors exiting into the bathroom vestibule by door number four swing in the direction of travel similar to the new or to the proposed egress door to the alleyway any comments on the motion on the board that's my only concern is where we're tying the alarms of three different buildings to the same doors um i think the architect should look at that and include that in their proposal as to if there's some reason why that doesn't make sense they can uh explain it john reiser has his hand a couple things uh was there a second and do you need to
048have that read back because that was quite a long motion uh or do you have some sense of that deborah so we know that we're talking about what we're debating i would ask a second i would ask that um bob read it back or email it to you if he's reading from something he's reading from what's in the packet okay i'm also reading from my notes right right here he supplemented it i just want to make sure you get it and they talk about it and we vote on it one way or the other so bob the way you read uh worded that is the alarm tied to the building on each side of the wall and not all three are together that's they don't need the alarm running ties to the shared wall correct
049there's more than one share i mean there are really one there's several ships using theater to two one two two or michigan theater to the six one six but they don't not not not two one two to six one six we don't tie together how about um adding that that they would be interconnected to the 616 212 and 603 fire alarm systems as deemed appropriate by the architect of record and the building official that works for me okay can you re-read the whole thing bob again please sorry sorry you gotta record it bob play it back um oh okay holmen [Applause] okay i move that in case bba 21-0 the appeal of the building officials decision that the work to be performed at 603 liberty is granted relief from section 705.8.1 and table 705.8 and
050the building board of appeals reverses the building officials decision for the reason that the applicant has proposed an equal or better form of construction in so far as it will be using rated 180 minute fire doors in combination with the deluge system in lieu of the proposed fire shutters at double firewall conditions which will be interconnected to the 616 212 and 603 fire alarm systems as deemed appropriate by the building official and architect of record further that the doors exiting into the bathroom vestibule by new door number four will swing in the direction of travel as does the new egress door to the allen second second any other further discussion next one of the big box i'm retired must be nice those in favor of the motion um as uh written or said there say
051aye aye those against [Music] we have no votes again so it's five nothing and it looks like it passes thank you paul thank you thank you thank you next item on the agenda is uh dba 2102 we've got a c minutes there's a bba 2104 appeal at 115 117 west liberty and over michigan the applicant tied in yet deborah yeah we should have everyone on they unmute themselves uh hello uh this is tresna taylor i'm from dfdg the architect of record deborah are people able to hear me yes we hear you fine thank you so first we'll have a uh staff report glenn um the arts center is uh proposing to put two openings in the walls of the adjoining properties at 115 and it is on the first and second floor they're asking for
052relief from section 705 and table 705.8 allowing the opening in the fire rated wall as i had mentioned on the first and second floor this would allow access to the different programs and functions of both buildings and provide some safety for the individuals and probably most specifically minors that may be tr transferring to and from both locations and they're proposing to have fire doors shutters and a deluge system also very similar to the last year they are proposing an equal or equal or better form of construction and that's what they're weighing in on okay thank you can the absolute bend present their appeal uh yes um so i um this is a little bit less complicated than the previous applicant um we were really proposing as glenn um summarized the two openings um i guess
053i wanted to add on the on the first floor um it is a six foot opening with a fire shutter um that fire shutter would be open during the business hours to connect the proposed exhibit gallery which is going to be on the 115 side with the um 117 side which is the current art center that would connect to the retail gallery and the classroom buildings um that fire shutter door would be closed every night so that the art center can secure the exhibit gallery because they do art classes at night in the evenings and so on on the second floor we are proposing a three hour metal swing door fire door um this door would have a closer um so its normal position would be closed um we as far as suppression goes uh
054our existing building 117 is partially suppressed um the basement and the third floor is suppressed but we have enough capacity in the system um to add additional sprinklers and so as glenn noted we will be adding the deluge system on the 117 side of each of these openings so we feel that um the combination of the three r fire doors on each of the levels plus the suppression on the 117 side um provides uh an equal um construction in terms of the fire protection the fire rating of the party wall and um i guess to some of the comments from uh that arose in the previous um previous application that that again this is a building it's it is um both buildings or both units are owned by the art center um it really it
055is a property line technically they are two different tax parcels we have a lot of similar issues with the um you know the ownership being condominiums that complicates um technically the legalese of combining the properties but um you know for the practice for the i guess what i'm saying is like practically speaking it's it's one owner um and so we are basically um you know seeing the fight at the party wall uh as a firewall and we're protecting it as you would any normal firewall thank you there's a board have any questions for the applicant just uh because you're doing the deluge on only one side of the um the wall uh is there a reason why it's only on one side uh yeah so currently the 115 side is not suppressed although um actually
056the representative from the contractor from o'neill construction who is a little bit more well-versed in the fire suppression system so if matt gudenow is able to chime in with any additional information that would be helpful but my understanding is that um it is um not suppressed on the 115 side okay is there enough water capacity or besides the line is it the issue not to suppress the 115 side for the building um i i think it i think it has to do with the size of the line um but again i would defer to matt on that one we have that currently present uh deb it looks like can you hear me okay can you hear me glenn yeah sorry about that guys all technical difficulties um yeah so that is correct we we don't
057have adequate uh water source on the 115 side to be able to add uh fire suppression on the 115 side we do have plenty of water source available on the 117 side that we could feed both sides of the opening but we assume that wouldn't be allowed to cross the uh the firewall and you know suppress two addresses with uh from one side of the building so if i could ask what triggers the um the fire shutter well actually let me ask this question first the door that's on the um upper floor is that on a on some kind of a magnetic hold open or is it just typically a self-closing fire door a second it would be a self-closing fire door there would be no hold open okay and it would be three hour
058yes okay i'm just you know on your schedule it references back to a two-hour fire door okay i will double check that i think that this might have been left over from a previous version um actually it should be it should be a three hour fire door with a closer and no but no panic pardon no without a padding bar and without a panic attack yes it's not it's not an egress door um both both the buildings egressed separately without having to go through either one of these openings okay and what triggers the fire shutter that would be triggered by the fire alarm on either side of the of the door okay so and then if somebody closes that fire shutter every night they have the wherewithal to reset it every morning um so i'm
059not sure uh logistically what's involved but that door would be closed every night and opened every morning well that's a kind of big logistical question i mean it's there's somebody who you know first of all they can do that and there's nothing you know more complicated than opening you know there's a fusible link in there yeah yeah um that's your intent it seems like you don't want swinging doors or some other kind of door there you have to close them open every day because right now is to have um you know a generous opening between the gallery and the uh retail space um you know it just has a way to function and a way to um provide so that the art center staff can monitor both spaces easily during the day tres might i
060suggest uh you know like you say i assume the the overhead cloning door would uh be triggered by either the fire alarm or a fusible link i think part of the idea of closing the gate every night is a measure of security you know maybe that could be done with you know a non-rated just basic security gate that uh you know wouldn't impede the function of the fire shutter oh it could i suppose i guess in my um you know research on the fire door system i mean this door is rated to be opened up to 10 times per day um it's so it's not like a high traffic kind of door but it definitely would support being open and closed once every day so i'm i'm used to a fire door that you can
061open and shut and then it has a fusible link so if the door happens to be opened it triggers the weight and then a weight drops down and the door shuts it sounds like there's something like that where it's a usable door reasonably usable door but if it's left open and the fusible link is broken then it automatically allows the door to shut that was my understanding as well but the door is connected to the fire alarm system that that triggers that triggers it closing all right can it not be can it not be uh linked to both a fusible link and a fire alarm i actually it's not my area of expertise so um i apologize for that but um i i don't know i guess from yeah from my understanding that i think
062that those things were possible that you could have it um operate it once a day and yet in in an open position it could be triggered to be closed if it were either by a feasible link and or a fire alarm you probably could reward the motion in a way that we just said has opening protections on there and then you could determine what kind of protection you want to put on there there's a swinging door overhead door or whatever but it's just going to have a three-hour opening for you know opening protection on there let me give you some flexibility yeah i think that would be that would be very helpful is there any other part of the athlete too uh that's just the opening is that one thing we're dealing with in this
063as far as the variance this is the opening are the two levels no it was just this uh issue with openings on the property line any other questions by the board somebody come up with a motion one minute okay uh this is under appeal granted language i moved it in case bba 21-004 the appeal of the building officials decision that the work to be performed at 115 and 117 west liberty is granted relief from section 705 and table 705.8 that the building board of appeal reverses the building officials decision for the reasons that the applicant is proposing an equal or better form of construction with the following stipulations that the applicant can verify the capability of the fire shutter to operate automatically and manually without jeopardizing its functionality and that two door number 230 is
064confirmed to be a three-hour rated self-closing non-egress door your second a second is discussion on the motion um you want to have i'm raising my hand if i might okay um was there going to be a water system on one side yeah i mean that was part of their proposal is it in the stipulation it is part of their planned proposal yeah okay so it's probably good to include that in the narrative probably would be good to some one of the fire sprinkles on the on the 117 side i guess the lucious and the 117 side you so you'd want to add that as a another part of this yeah i think we would reinforce their application then just just to be uh from the amendment to include that in there okay narrative then deborah
065amending the motion to read that there will be a suppression a fire suppression deluge system at each level on the uh 117 west liberty side of the opening thank you second the amendment okay any other further discussion if not uh those in favor say aye aye anyone opposed seeing none the motion passes thank you thank you everyone next item on the agenda is scroll back up there uh deborah just as a point of order when we were unanimous it's a vote of four people not five i think paul might have said he thought it was five oh for five or so before yeah got it thank you okay thank you thank you old business from the board new business so glenn you had commented that uh we have another person resigned from the board so
066we're looking at more people to be on the board yes we have two open positions and we are looking for applicants right now any other new business seeing not anybody want to make a motion to adjourn so moved second back to the those in favor all right we are adjourned 242. thank you thank you thank you everybody have a good month have a nice fourth everybody yes thank you bye-bye you