001So we'll kick things off. Yeah, so thank you so much for attending this workshop. This workshop is a follow-up from, gosh, I can't remember when I last, it wasn't January, was it? Was it January as from our January meeting so we had a great January retreat where we discussed a variety of things the school board really showed an interest in middle school facilities as being you know, one of our higher priority needs when you looked at our Building assessments the systems and building it seemed most dated in a need of improvement relative to our other facilities And so we've been working over this last six months with Clint Selle and Bray Architects on doing essentially like a gap analysis, looking at, you know, we have that assessment of where our buildings are, and then we
002developed a program or a plan to... see kind of what an ideal middle school plan would look like and then we're comparing our existing facilities and a variety of options to that to that gap what would it take to get our programs where we want them thankful that mr. Boddick from Longfellow Ms. Schmitz from Logan middle and mr. Madsen from Logan high are here their context and understanding of their buildings and how they work may be helpful for the board you know as you get to some of those questions and miss Everson of course as well she's hiding back there but their perspective is particularly useful as we think about the needs of our programs as well as the the options that we have here so I encourage you to rely on their local subject
003matter expertise in this process as well and I'll turn it over to Clint from Bray architects to lead us through this presentation thank you very much I was told to be brief, I guess, or the indication was we were going to be brief. So we'll do our best here tonight. Again, a lot of this doesn't want to advance at all. Okay. That's good. Good start. Okay. so again we'll go through kind of an ideal scenario we'll look at a couple of options kind of as we've gone through this process and I have to look at the data on the drawings but we've talked quite a bit about high school tech ed needs for quite a while as as well so that's another thing in addition to the middle schools that we're looking at part of
004this process the unfun part of this is looking at some budget summaries so again some cost ranges of where we think things may be a number of years out and then just a general draft schedule of maybe when this could be rolled out to the community and kind of what that could start to look at All right, so as Aaron indicated, we went through a process of developing a program for each of those. So in your eight and a half by 11 packets, this is probably the back 10 or 12 or so pages for them. So for each of kind of the options of middle school, we, again, we kind of, I liken this almost to, it's not really architecture, it's more of a recipe of how to build a middle school, if you will.
005So as we look at, the Logan attendance boundary based on current enrollment numbers we were roughly estimating the need for approximately a 450 student middle school again serving six through eight I'll Rather than, again, we were very thankful to the principals and their time. We kind of went line by line through each of these programs, how many classrooms, how many special ed rooms, gyms, cafeterias. So up here, there's just kind of a brief synopsis of the ingredients, the main ingredients that go into this overall program to sort of understand what those are. So our 450 student capacity really, again, would revolve around the Logan student, boundaries. We would be roughly looking at seven classrooms per grade level. That's a mixture of again, you know, your English, social studies, math classrooms, as well as your larger
006spaces that would be required for such things as math. We also, the program tries to incorporate some of the resource and collaborative spaces that we're creating at, you know, the various schools like the new Logan and some of the areas we're attempting to create at State Road within the addition and renovation there. So again, making sure this program, while again not exciting architecture, it does reflect some of the overall educational goals that mirror space needs as well within the building. So again, we kind of go through. So again, a two-court. two-station or two-court gymnasium. In this particular case, we did not plan for an auditorium, so that would be a discussion if, as we would move forward, we would build a new auditorium in conjunction with a new middle school, or if that would be
007something at that particular time, if we looked at a new scenario, would a new auditorium maybe get added on to Logan High School instead and kind of make the two high schools a little more apples to apples in comparison to that particular. aspect of things as we look at a scenario where we do renovate the auditorium obviously would still remain at at Logan middle school and get updated So sort of cutting to brass tacks that the the size of building we believe we would need for again for that that 450 student 6 through 8th grade is roughly a hundred and fifty seven thousand square feet And if we do look at the current Logan building, we're roughly 147 so again, there is a little bit of a deficiency there of space the other thing I
008just kind of want to point out and when we get to the the concepts one of the big things challenges you have with any facility especially existing is a lot of times you're building your entire schedule based on your your availability of lunch and again I think at both current middle schools there's the challenge of having enough PE space versus lunch space so again making sure that as we start this program that that's adequate and then as you look at the the couple of the scenarios we're looking through we're definitely addressing that gym versus cafeteria need at each building and I would also offer that 147,000 square feet we have right now may not be the most efficient use of space. You know, some things are in the wrong spot or the wrong size in
009the wrong place. And so this is something to keep in mind too. You would never put band music orchestra on the second floor if you were building, you know, brand new from the start like we have at Logan Middle. I'm transitioning to Longfellow again that attendance attendance boundary is leading us to a little bit bigger building at roughly 650 student capacity which roughly translates to nine classrooms per grade level again our core classrooms of math science and social studies and English we would be looking at a little bit bigger gym in this case again if we were to to build from scratch or new, we'd likely plan for a little bit larger gym. Again, being on the south side, we would continue to utilize the central auditorium as our location, so we would not plan
010an auditorium to be part of that facility. And then again, cutting to kind of the final number there, we're at roughly 179,000 square feet for that new facility. And again, for comparison, you can see a little bit bigger deficit here between this facility and the current. Longfellow middle school plan. As we went through this process there was some consideration or an ask I think by the board again going back to January is what does a 712 configuration look like so essentially we would add seventh and eighth grade to central and add seventh and eighth grade on to Logan in each of those cases I believe the thought process and that is sixth grade likely would then get distributed to the schools kind of as enrollment may or may not be continuing to decline district-wide so
011the the thought process there was a potential that the the elementary schools could absorb those sixth graders potentially with with minimal need for additional renovations but we haven't kind of gone quite that far yet so again it was I think first and foremost to explore the viability of this option before sort of continuing to chase the viability of the sixth grade aspect of it. So again, very similar kind of overall program. Essentially, we're lopping off sixth grade. We're building a little bit, some... Generally some smaller amenities, but in the end I mean we still need roughly the same number of band rooms and choir and those types of spaces So you know that I would say the change from the six seven eight to the seventh through eight Isn't isn't really a market difference. You
012know as you kind of look at the overall person. Yes It's less it really isn't substantially less as you consider it so again. We could drop down to about 135 Again, not that the comparison is exactly applicable here because we would be building onto Logan, but again, I included kind of the number of the current facility just to, again, to show and see that we are less than what the current is. So that again that does drop that capacity down to about 300 students for the Logan boundary and about 450 for the Longfellow boundary which again would be again additions at each of the facilities So we'll look at that briefly in a little bit of what an option for that At this time we really haven't selected in terms of the new scenario of
013where these schools go We would have to kind of go through a process of developing locations for where they could go You know the Logan middle school Scenario, I suppose if we were to build new you you could I suppose build to the south of the current middle school but as we all know that's a really really tight site as as it were and it would be a pretty rough construction period for that. So I think a process would have to go through to establish where that site would be if we were to build new. For the south side facility, one of the thoughts was maybe the Spence site could be a location. Again, you could also build that Longfellow and kind of, again, do kind of a change there where you'd build a new
014and tear down the existing if that was the choice of the board. So again, evaluating exactly what those plans and goals would be for new facilities would be a discussion that we would we would go down uh as that would uh you know gain legs and traction and so forth um so so looking at the overall plans um this again would be the scenario where we add on uh to the existing building uh to To basically bring that building up to the programmatic needs that that we were identifying and identifying in that that recipe as I was describing it so Just looking at the overall site plan. We're still taking into account here the potential for a new pool So hopefully that this all works on that existing site So the thought process here in
015the upper left hand corner the the blue addition shown there would be primarily Primarily our band music and choir as well as some tech ed addition That puts band music and choir rate rate close adjacent to the auditorium and on the first floor again getting them down off of the second floor and Then the other main addition that we have is in that lower right hand corner Which is a new cafeteria that we would be introducing So flipping to kind of the overall floor plans again as described that upper left hand addition band music choir as well as i'll say kind of more of our shop tech ed type spaces the kind of red or mauve color throughout this would be what we're referring to as heavy renovations so we're changing the use or the
016function of the space expanding the space and then our our turquoise or teal color would be where we're updating the finishes so for the most part we're touching you know Really high percentage of this existing building. So the goal is when we walk away from it It's a more cohesive building throughout with you know, more similar finishes versus kind of the You know walking through, you know, you're in the 60s 70s 80s portion of the building as it currently sits A couple of just a couple of notes in that that first floor plan to the far left We are planning for some reconfiguration of the front entry. So there's a little bit more of a prominent entrance and kind of moving maybe a portion of the office out to that far west side and creating,
017again, a little bit more distinct entry for that, as well as having a provision that we can kind of create and update a little bit more of an entrance canopy element to the overall building. When we do move band and choir and music down to the lower level, we do pick up a number of classrooms on that second floor level. We did investigate some additional options to fill in what was the original gym and stage area. And, you know, one of the cost tradeoffs for that is we would have to kind of re-evaluate. That change would be such impact from a code perspective that we'd have to go through and fire sprinkle the whole building. So there's, again, some cost trade-offs that we would have to kind of explore in that regard. As we look
018at the cafeteria edition part of our goal there is that it's it's able to accommodate one grade level At a time so again, we factor in three lunch periods as well as some flexibility You know that that there would allow for some some growth as it were We talked about a little bit of some of the potential for future growth here obviously as we're building this you know what What if something changes and we need to utilize this? So, again, I think we have a couple of opportunities to explore. Number one, again, would be to infill that gym. I mean, maybe at that time when the enrollment, if the enrollment would grow. education changes, there's need for additional space, that would be a location. Another idea that we talked a little bit about would be
019to build the structure for the gymnasium such that a third floor kind of classroom suite could be created at a future time, almost similar to what we're doing at State Road right now. So possibly we could build that as a kind of white box scenario where if when the need came. Or you'd build it like we did. It was built at State Road where the structure's just sized so that a third floor could be added. Another area we could potentially explore, it's maybe a little bit more off the beaten path, would be above tech-added music. But again, generally we want those spaces to be a little bit taller in nature anyways, so that probably isn't quite conducive. But again, I think just those two areas, again, filling in the old gym space or potential added
020third floor level gets it. gives us a little bit of flexibility here any questions about Logan before moving on to Longfellow Longfellow we are potentially looking at some again some additions here again there was a gap at this facility from that program to what is needed so we are potentially looking at three additions this is Kind of describe the building a little bit of a funky situation given an angle and some of the geometries of the building So kind of some of the scenarios here are a little bit Difficult to achieve and I'll say in kind of a clean way But again, I think we're making best use of of the space we have and I think it does result in in Spaces that are kind of adequately hopefully solve kind of the challenge and
021need here So again, part of what we're looking at is building a new gym. So the lower right-hand blue box would be a new gymnasium addition. And then we're converting, I'll say the innermost, or I believe the more original gymnasium would then become our dedicated cafeteria. In addition to some additional classroom spaces at this facility, there was some need for additional office space. So we are accommodating some of that office space need in part of that gymnasium as well, again, in that red color. And then really looking at a pretty massive overhaul of the locker room spaces to make that, again, flow much better from gym space to cafeteria space to gym space, and also just make better use of that space as well. We're also capturing a little bit additional space for the kitchen,
022which is really tight currently. The band room moves up to the first floor as part of the next addition. That's kind of the one wedged in there I'll say. The band space so kind of in the lower middle part of it. Again that gets our band music and choir or band orchestra and choir spaces continuous and together versus right now they're pretty separate across the entire building. Again that turquoise color shows itself quite a bit throughout the entire facility. Kind of again in a lot of the spaces that haven't been recently updated so again really trying to create a good cohesive look throughout the facility so look at this there's no plan on the LMC at all is there correct yeah the LMC Joe help me out but I mean it's relatively been updated fairly
023recently so we we didn't feel the the necessary need to provide additional costs for that because it is has seen some updates fairly recently. So for a referendum like this, this is such a nitty gritty question right there, but I remember when I toured... Longfellow middle school that there was a lot of outdated furniture in the LMC and that was something that the Librarian staff kind of calm down. They said there's anything to do to help them that there with that referendum also address those kind of needs at all Or is that just something separate for there? We do have a separate line item for furniture within that and that that could be utilized anywhere within the building So I don't remember the exact number I would I guess we probably have close to $750,000
024in the budget for furniture at each of the facilities. Whether that's, again, all new classroom or so forth, that would be, we could utilize that in the library spaces. Our librarian group is going through an assessment of their furniture needs across the school district, and we're fortunate to get a large amount of common school funds that is dedicated to libraries, and it can be used for furniture in some cases. So they're working on a plan to update those things over time. But this could be an opportunity to do that cohesively at one time as well. Yeah, it's such a nitty-gritty question I kind of had there, but... I was curious if I can receive that report if possible. Once you get that done, just take a look at the library. Follow up with me around
025January. We should have something complete by then. I can wait, though. Our last addition then is the one in the upper right hand again another blue addition of primarily of classroom spaces as well as getting some some additional toilets this building has Again a kind of a funky Arrangement of toilets throughout where some of the male and female are split between different areas of the building different floor levels of the building So again adding some additional toilets is definitely a need in this building as well Our lower level, again, mostly renovation and some of the finish updates. Some of those existing classrooms have been relatively recently updated. Yes, Aaron asked if we could build in the crawl space, and I said no. So we did, you know, that was looked at, and there's just not
026the head height clearance. It wasn't built to be expanded into, unfortunately. I'm holding out hope. Just have to grow very short literally says tunnel And then our upper floor level again a lot of finish updates throughout the facility as well as again some additional expansion of classroom space on this the upper level here doesn't quite mirror the first floor so on that that far right side where it's the the red red color. That's actually the current art classrooms and there really isn't a connection through. The addition that was put that's shown here in kind of the gray, which would just be the roof section, unfortunately can't accommodate another floor level. So we're kind of doing a little bit of shuffling of spaces, creating new art spaces, and then putting classrooms back where the current art
027is so that we can get out to that new addition. Looks like one classroom and special ed and a conference room. Correct. But then again, we gained the four or so classrooms in the current art area as well. So any questions about other questions about Longfellow? Was any thought given to the interior bit there? I imagine it might be kind of prohibitive to connect up. It just with the way hallways would have to work and yeah, I mean we could we just lose kind of access to the middle of the building We certainly want to keep natural light to all of the classrooms as it were so I mean it and again I I think the theme of this building is just funky angles and spaces You know, it just isn't doesn't seem very logical
028to create You know well laid out thoughtful classroom space. Yeah, because the part of the reason I ask is because I'm curious of getting our staff's perspective on the movement through the building. And I remember being a middle schooler was different probably than being a teacher there now, being a student there now. Does the wing structure work? Does it facilitate some kind of benefit in the educational atmosphere? Or is it a pain point? John, what are your thoughts on the buildings currently structured if you'd come up and speak into the mic that'd be great John Botic at Longfellow. Yep. Yeah currently we're structured into basically three areas sixth grade seventh grade and eighth grade and we have pods Located or teams, I guess you could say small groups of kids small groups of teachers In
029our in our areas for the kids spend most of their day outside of when they go to their electives and classes You know, our school was built, I mean, with elementary kids when it was built in 1939. It's small. The hallways are small. So what we will benefit from from something along this is we'll be able to spread the kids out. Because right now, with the current setup, things get really tight in the hallways. The hallways are, you know, we're 75 kids less than Logan High School. and a lot of kids in the subway. So anything we can do to create more space on the edges, perfect. That'll be fine. I think this will be great. We have a wonderful band with a tiny band room and Chip and Kristen just do amazing things in
030there, but they, I know, would love something. with more space. Now, of course, the lunchroom situation, which both of us work with, you know, you know, if indeed we did go with one of these plans, we would be breaking tradition because that that 1939 gym has been a lunchroom since 1939. So but no. Spreading kids out into the wings and into the airs of the building would be amazing and would be a huge improvement to our school. Right now, you know, we've had more kids in this school. When I started in 2001, we had 735 kids. Now we have 625. But schools have changed so much. in the last 25 years. They're not just a school with a couple special education teachers and your pod teachers and a few elective teachers. Now we have many
031more elective teachers. We have more special education teachers. We have more community programs, more things that we offer the kids. Some of the items that you were talking about tonight with some of the additions maybe to the district, and right now we just don't have the space for them. Right now, we're shuffling. Right now, we're moving one thing to here, Rob and Peter to Pate Paul in every aspect. So this looks very appealing, whether we land on that down the road or not, but something like this would be very helpful and beneficial to our school. Thank you. I mean, I could, just describing real quick, work through some of those scenarios. Why we didn't show it now is, again, we were trying to maximize the number of classrooms and, again, meet that program in the
032end, and I didn't want to kind of create that link, which would have likely needed another classroom somewhere else. Let's do like a rope bridge on the second floor or something. It's middle school. They would love that. So shifting a little bit we're looking a little bit at again that what does that 7-12 mean potentially and I'll start just by with a caveat for this one of our goals was to try and keep our middle schoolers and our high schoolers separate as much as possible while using any unused space quote-unquote within our existing buildings and so we did a space analysis of our existing high schools as well to kind of determine what space they need given how we operate our schools today and so with that I'll turn it over to Clint So this
033this scenario I'd say would be the the least amount of sharing that would occur so as we looked at central and the potential that that some sharing could could be We do believe that that the central high school could absorb one of the grade levels However, as you kind of can envision kind of adding on and the intersperse and how that connects through it's it's not entirely clean so again in terms of the separation goal this We think this option does meet it the best. However, again, it is a little bit less efficient when we get to the budgets You'll see a bigger spread between the central budget and that does reflect kind of on the low end where we are sharing spaces I'll kind of try to describe kind of what that looks like
034Whereas the higher end version of that is is this plan? So again, this plan also does include what a tech ed Expansion would look like again as we're looking at this potential building build or building We definitely wanted to make sure tech ed was responded to I'm just gonna zoom out of this just so I can kind of point at things a little effectively So forgive me while I transition here a little bit. So really just that that separation here and I'll this Really this this part of the building is our is our middle school has its own tech ed area It has its own cafeteria gymnasium classrooms and again where we are abutting to the existing would be kind of through where the tech ed portion of the high school would be so this
035is our expansion for high school tech ed which again gets us out of the lower level spaces and then potentially frees up those spaces for, again, some additional improvements at the high school level. So doing this it looks like it removed the baseball field in the tennis courts Which we've heard discussions in the past about wine renovations for the tennis courts But would we be moving those two spaces elsewhere in the school district under this proposal? It would have to happen. Yeah, and I guess I also preface just because we're looking at this option doesn't always mean that maybe right we're looking at it i think it is a good option we're looking at expanding our big picture and then narrowing it down is kind of the impression i get from this Yeah, and we've
036already been thinking about baseball diamonds You know We're fortunate to have a partnership with the Shelby ball fields and are looking at improving that our baseball coaches have been wishing for a Dedicated varsity ball field for a while, you know, that's a potential opportunity 30 years, okay, so 30 years of three decades at least You know, the existing ball field here is nice, but it's not quite varsity level The partnership with the city over at Copeland Park is fine, but we can't use it regularly, and so it's a challenge. Our baseball team would love to have their own space, and the opportunity to do that at the Shelby ball fields is really optimal. It's close by. And then as far as tennis courts go, we've had partnerships with the city as well, and we'd have
037to look for another site for that potentially. As we're vacating properties like Spence, potentially there could be. an opportunity to expand the tennis courts there at Erickson Park maybe and do something you know in collaboration with the city. So the shared concept would likely entail a little bit different configuration. Our middle school would be essentially added on as this yellow box. And like I said, we would then potentially try to share some of the lowest, the first floor, lowest level classrooms. I believe we need about nine classrooms to, again, accommodate one of the grade levels. And then again, it would reduce our size of addition, and the parking would then kind of split the difference between the stadium and the building. So again, rough terms, that's kind of what that scenario would look like. But
038then in that model, you would have a lot more integration of the student bodies. Some integration, yes. I mean, again, we'd have to kind of look at how it works, but yes, it would be a little bit. You would have the people saying, I don't want my eighth grader around those nasty seniors. Yeah, there'd be stairwells and offices and cafeteria spaces there would be commingling to a far greater bathrooms in some case in some cases we'd be able to Create culture to keep kids out of areas, but it would be less of a physical Break than the other model that we have demonstrated with you Moving on to Logan again. We have a very similar situation here where we are trying to accommodate for some expansion of the high school tech ed So that's what
039we're kind of seeing here the current tech ed Draw my box on here again Our current tech ed spaces are here Those would get potentially renovated and then expand it on to and then we would likely put the middle school tech ed very close so there'd be some opportunity for share of some sharing or as it were. And then our separation here would be, again, our expansion of gym, cafeteria space, trying to locate a kitchen in such a spot that we can, again, possibly share the production side of it. There would be two separate serving areas. And then our classrooms and some of the other support spaces along the, I guess that's the eastern side of this. And that would be taking away the softball fields? Correct. Yep. Yep. And then, again, there's limited space
040here, as you're quickly seeing. So we would try to expand our parking and then, you know, with kind of some playground space along that, again, towards the east side of the site. Yes. Thank you. All right. Meeting adjourned. One of the challenges of Logan High is the way that it's arranged, it's harder to share space. Like we could figure out a way at Central. There isn't really a way to share space at Logan that keeps kids separate. God's day is just ruined today. It's talk at the Vogue your podcast Probably heard that same rumor and he did ask and I had our structural engineer I'll look at it and we don't believe it's it can accommodate and I think it was a relatively small like the area He thought was it was a relatively small
041area up there as well. So This is way too specific a question for this level, but when we're sharing a kitchen space like that, would the thought be that we have separate kitchen staff? Or would it actually be a slightly expanded kitchen staff serving both elements of the school? Yes, slightly expanded. We'd be more efficient than two separate kitchens. That's where I'm getting it. Gain some efficiency there, and they would just be producing for the day. And I think middle school and high school portions are almost the same. There's some mild differences, but it would be the same general menus, slightly different portions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Logan High School, their cafeteria staff provided for the other school, or was it Logan Middle School? That was the key. The headquarters for the Logan Middles
042our production kitchen for much for like the city programs and a number of other programs There they run all summer at a high rate So that's something considered to is mind you we're just opening these up here one thing consider about our options areas Are we gonna have to shift a production cafeteria to accommodate that elsewhere in our area? Just one other kind of point on this there really wasn't a very just due to the existing layout of the building there we didn't believe there was a very good way to try to create any type of shared space without basically just carte blanche kind of opening up the entire building to be truly a 712 building so that and as we kind of went through and looked at the the number of available classrooms wasn't
043quite as available as this building as well again kind of translating the program to kind of today's educational standards and then again translating that to the building. So again, that shared scenario didn't quite work out so well on this facility, unfortunately. You can just move Logan to Central. Well, I didn't get to play with sky yet today, I mean Don't stop that the building has to go somewhere so ultimately you need space to build You're limited to where you can I mean, hopefully we have some space opening up where a few things could have been built but like i mean that that really takes a good chunk out of a lot of uh sports and and i think it's it's anything's doable right but it's it's gonna be difficult to keep them separated and that's
044the hardest thing about that seven to twelve like the old logan used to have seven to twelve right yeah you know but it was two separate buildings more or less combined but you know there there was a wall and uh the 10th, 11th, and 12th all were on one side and 7th, 8th, and 9th were on the other. And part of our challenge here too, it's hard to see the red lines dotted red lines in there but they show our property boundaries and at the top of that property we don't own much of that green space and so thinking about that for parking or for Facility additions makes it very difficult. That's technically city property when the city School district split up and we had to divide our property between the city and the school
045district you know we didn't retain some of those uh pieces uh as we would have liked um back in the day in 1980s i mean they've got they're imagining a a heavy intersection there and you know maybe a roundabout someday or something but really it's been our property that we've maintained for 100 years and well at least since the 1970s so it would be nice to continue we can't use that as a result as we're planning yeah Well, that's beautiful property out front that you can't touch. Trees keep on falling, but I mean, otherwise. Yes. We clean them up. Most districts that do this stuff, they're doing it on brand new builds. Right. They're designed, the purpose is for it. Because to me, this just seems like you're just trying to fix a problem. Yeah.
046I appreciate that we have something tangible to look at that responds to, because Jim has been asking about grade reconfiguration as a possibility for a long time. And to visualize it and ask questions about it, yeah, is helpful. It's been a conversation since 2021. And I would invite maybe Kelly to just come talk about like the. So there's the physical space constraints and some of those things. There's also the philosophical and practical concerns a principal might have, and she might be able to offer some perspective. Hi, Kelly Schmitz, Logan Middle and SOTA 2. So I'm also thinking with that brain as well because I have a school within a school. So that also goes into my thinking when we're looking at a new school or thinking about additions. John and I both have a lot
047of the same philosophy. 11, 12, 13-year-olds. have the most growth emotionally, physically, academically. All of that compared to birth to three. So like there are a bunch of hormones all together and all over the place a hundred times. So just the mix of that, a seventh grader with a high schooler. I think the high schoolers will kill the seventh graders, honestly, because they'll just be so fed up with them and their little antics and their little traits. I love them. I love all that energy, but not high school kids don't usually like that energy. And I think John and I both really tried to create a school where kids can learn, grow, and figure out what they like to do in a really safe, welcoming environment so that the kids can feel like, ooh, I
048want to try knitting club or crochet club or STEM club without having to go into the high school to do any of those clubs. So having their own space really helps them figure out who they are as humans. I believe, and I know research backs this up, that the kids that are in middle school need to be together to help them build their own identity and their self-esteem and help them be ready for high school, start thinking about that career path that they want without the intimidation of all those older kids. While you have the mic, can I ask you kind of the same question I did of John about Logan Middle, the existing structure? What's kind of, because my kids are in the theater camp up there and everything all the time. It is
049a labyrinth, right? Some of those hallways around the performing arts. So what's in the day-to-day experience during the school year, what's the pain point with the structure as it exists? We just don't have like collaborative spaces. We are a lot like John too set up in those houses. And so we have like eighth grade, seventh grade, sixth grade, very separate from me on each of the floors. Although then you go to your electives, right? After they get out of their core classes, math, science, social studies, ELA, they do run into each other, right? But there's just not a lot of collaborative space. We are very much like a junior high. So if you think of that, we're set up like, okay, there was the English department, there was the math department, there was the science.
050So then we're trying to make this square peg fit into the round hole, right? Like, okay, now we have seventh grade pod here, but oh, they have to go all the way over there to meet that teacher, and there's not that collaborative space in between. So that's, for us, an addition or the reconfiguration of moving the band, choir, orchestra downstairs. Oh my gosh, I just opened up a whole bunch of space for kids to work and collaborate together across. the different disciplines. So for us, it's just, it is a labyrinth. Like these little tiny hallways that you get, you're like, oh, that didn't go anywhere. Oh, we'll back up and go that way. So it is a maze that I would love to like kind of refigurate and give us more space for kids to
051work together. Thank you. Well, it's because it was a junior high school. It was. It says Logan Junior High right on the front of the building. Yep. Yep. Great. Thank you. Yep. again as mentioned with the 712 configuration the CTE at the high schools has been something again we've we've talked for quite some time with the district about what what this could potentially look like so Maybe taking a step back a little bit, our goal as we look at a potential concept for this at Central, again, was to try to minimize the impact to tennis and baseball. So, again, Joe would probably be getting baseballs off of the roof of that new addition very frequently. But, again, this is what we think we might be able to accommodate if we wanted, again, to try to
052keep baseball and tennis intact. Obviously, if there's some... Flexibility and those could move that configuration could potentially change of that addition and be a little more linear like we saw in the in the 712 concept and then again the renovation of the of the current tech ed spaces Within the existing as well, but again this this allows access to tech ed that you don't have in this building Potentially a little bit more auto program or availability to just get materials in and out of the building which is again I imagine a extreme chore given the location right now in the basement So it it does it does steal a bit of the parking which is already another pain point for centrally now what would be nice is Obviously if we had a new place for
053a new ballpark because they desperately need it here Mean you know it's just not the answer forever that's bad Copeland Park But it would be nice to have a dedicated nice ballpark for him and that could be more parking right there in that area for sure And again the test here is can we do it and you know the answer is yes But certainly there's there's probably better better answers if we have a little bit more flexibility Similarly, kind of the same goal at Logan. I would say this one works much better. We believe we can get that addition in there, expand their space, renovate their existing, and potentially keep the current softball facility in its location. Ideally, again, you talk about what's ideal. We'd probably like a little bit more space between that kind
054of apron space at the front of where TechEd would have overhead doors and stuff to go in. But again, we believe this this could could likely meet the needs and again solve that issue and have much less impact on tennis and so forth going forward and I don't know mr. Madsen if you have any thoughts about tech ed in your year that you've been able to see the things their thoughts for how to make that more welcoming or attractive it feels a bit claustrophobic right now hi everyone I'm Luke Manson principal at Logan high school I don't know if I can speak Much more say much more than you just said dr. Angle about the space I would add I know that I feel like the appetite to kind of do the 712 is kind
055of dwindling I will add just a couple things John had mentioned You know the needs have changed schools change an awful lot and I was just sitting there thinking as he said that You know we have dedicated spaces now in our building To meet the needs of our students as those needs continue to rise right we have a shrinking middle class I'm not going to get political, but we have this shrinking middle class, and we have kids coming with more and more needs. Like when I was in high school in the late 80s, early 90s, we didn't have a clothing closet. We didn't have a food pantry. We didn't have EL classrooms. We didn't have as many sped classrooms. We have all of those things, and we need those things. And so if we bring
056more bodies in, if we combine classes. something's going to give, right? We're not going to be able to meet the needs of all our students. So I just, I did want to say that. And yes, our CTE does need a facelift. It's great. We have a big footprint, which is great. I think we can, we certainly are moving in a direction in education. I was not a CTE person as a student. I was scared of those hallways. I was a Spanish teacher for 18 years and that was kind of my thing. I certainly wish I would have spent more time there in those spaces and that's the that's the Direction we're moving we in order for us to keep up. We have to upgrade those spaces We have great things better rotaring does amazing work
057and having a vision for CT in this district We just need to have an upgrade in our facilities so that we can meet the needs that our students Will see when they leave us Thanks I didn't include it, but we kind of, we did establish, again, this was quite a while ago, actually, we did establish some program goals for each of these spaces, what the tech ed should look like at each of the buildings. So, again, both scenarios, again, create apples-to-apples comparison between the two buildings. So the not so fun part of this entire exercise is to try to budget this. So again, we did try to budget this as a complete project. This includes some inflation factors. We'll get a little bit to schedule in a bit, but we are forecasting this likely won't
058happen before 2028. So we're applying five years. of construction inflation per year onto these numbers. As I mentioned, this does include some furniture within the budgets. It does include contingencies. It includes our construction costs. So the goal is that these are complete numbers for consideration. And they're kind of self-contained as well. So again, you could pick the new Logan Middle School, and it's not necessarily dependent on a number of other factors, as it were. This first page is our middle school options. Our first two up there would be what new middle schools would cost. Quite expensive. The middle scenario is what a addition renovation type scenario. So those two different options that we looked at. So again, both the additions and some of the upgrades within the existing buildings. Again in the end kind of
059lopping sixth grade off doesn't save us a lot of money and like I said and and like like we kind of talked about we're really not able to share a lot of spaces so we really are more or less almost building the equivalent of those two new middle schools as i mentioned the central scenario has a much bigger range because we we are potentially able to share but again they are they are very spendy um so then some moving on the some of the other factors again the high school cte has separate projects those budgets are not included in that 712 scenario that's just for the middle school component so we you know, in addition to that, we would have to add on these two numbers if we so chose to pursue that. And then
060some other just planning considerations. There's been, again, some thoughts of updating the stadium here, both potentially the bleachers as well as the turf. And then the auditorium at this point. Building I know Joe's had kind of a couple ideas earmarked for that for this facility here The updates to the auditorium at Logan middle school are included in that renovation addition renovation cost So we have we have money in that budget for updates of the auditorium there Just thinking through again a very rough draft schedule You know talking to administration the the thought is possibly a November 28 Capitol referendum could be something to consider That will be a presidential election. So you're going to have a very large turnout of people Larger turnout elections generally do lead to more success But I think as you
061guys have experienced with kind of the surveying process, you know doing a survey, getting good data generally is kind of the best process to follow there. The timeline then to... Go to referendum when you need to approve 70 days before so it's I usually say August 20th is usually a saw a safe date So it would be roughly August 20th. You would have to go to resolution Which gives us June to August to refine the scope based on a community survey so for a November Referendum we would survey that February to May time period Also for consideration is you do have your operational referendum falling off in 2029. So the thought process there is we might want to consider going for operational in April and then following that up with the capital then in November.
062You're allowed to ask two questions per calendar year. So you could combine them and kind of go all in. in November, or in this particular case, you allow yourself the flexibility. You could ask in April. If it failed in April, you go back to operational again in November. And then you'd only, in odd years, there's only April referendum. So then in that particular case, either you'd ask one or two questions in April. But that's, again, sequentially some of the thought process that you'll have to kind of work through. This was exactly what I was asking for earlier, by the way, so thank you for this. This would coincide with the north side construction falling off, too, wouldn't it? Because that's going to fall on 29? That's correct. It would make the net impact of a
063capital referendum less, and so it would make it more palatable for taxpayers at that time. It wouldn't change. They wouldn't see such a big change on their tax bill. because we would be replacing the payoff of the former with be helpful to see the differential Yeah, we haven't calculated exactly what that would look like yet if this seems like something we're pursuing we'd start to like work through some of those numbers to You know and we still have to pick an option in there, too You know what's the number that we're looking for? You know and probably engage the community to make sure that we're picking the right track in some way Absolutely, yes We've questioned it. We've had others question it. And they've said it numerous times, to have this in black and white,
064well, it's pretty colored, it's not black and white, but to have this information on hand is extremely helpful to how we move forward with everything. Because it's, you know, they all need, both schools have needs, but I think it, At least to me, you know the adding the two schools together It's good to know thanks and I was actually one of them teetering And thinking, I mean, with... potentially 40 million of just the CTE renovations on top of all that too so yeah I'm looking at the the February to May for a community survey and just thinking thinking about this a little bit different than the elementary referendum because this would potentially not involve consolidation or closure of anything right so I think that four months is maybe more realistic than the the year we
065spent in you know talking to the community but Yeah, that's just that just gave me a little bit of pause and then of course the the timing of going to operational referendum in April and going straight back in November Feels really hard to me. Mm-hmm. Yeah This let's be honest. This also puts a an emphasis. It's gonna make it tougher Yeah, yeah, this just adds you know I don't know. It just adds to our plate here. And we have decisions to make. This is sort of what I was thinking about when we're talking about spending our goodwill or spending our social capital. Like, is the pool the thing? Or is this the thing? I also still want to think about... Capacity as well, right? So thinking that Longfellow now is that 625 I think you
066said right and the utilization of the building as it stands after the consolidating Lincoln Inn is still below capacity, but What we've heard from some folks is that it's tight right and like you said you're you're shuffling to make things work and To add a capacity of only 25 additional students, you know if and when Let's say gold is found in the Mississippi and the town booms for whatever reason right? You know we need flexibility in and room to grow in existing facilities to be responsive. That's not a huge cushion So yeah, but I think like mr. Madsen articulated some of the new uses that our buildings have that we did not have historically And you can you can pack kids in you know at the high schools our teachers, you know teach five of
067eight they have a you know a Duty that might involve study hall There's two or three class periods that you could have traveling teachers filling out all those classrooms But it does not lead to good things in schools when teachers don't have their own classrooms when they're traveling from classroom to classroom when kids are confused about where they're headed each day, when you don't have space for the things that make lives better, things like a food pantry, a closed closet, be great graduate specialist, a lacrosse roads program, adaptive special ed places. When you lose all of that stuff, the buildings don't serve every kid any longer. They only serve some kids. And so having a little extra space isn't a luxury. a growing need that we've seen year over year. Cultural family liaisons, there will
068probably be an office in every building. We want them to be able to be accessible with kids, to have groups, and if they're in a closet somewhere, it doesn't facilitate good development of that program. And also just educational capacity versus just literal building capacity where, again, we're stuffing as many kids as we can in the classrooms. Yes, certainly we can put a lot of kids in that building, but it's not the best use or how we want kids to learn and the environment we're looking for. Certainly again going through that benchmarking exercise of establishing what what the building should be how it should be designed for the Programmatic needs and then kind of again kind of interlaying that into the existing building. It's kind of the process We went so hopefully again we're able to
069create some of those collaborative spaces and have adequate special ed spaces and so forth You know so again that I think that's part of this process I would love the brand new options to have buildings that were designed properly for middle school use and all those collaborative spaces but at more than four times the cost of renovation that's hard to swallow and maybe our community would get behind that but For us to achieve essentially the same thing on a nice renovation where it looks cohesive it meets our needs There's a really viable option there. I think for us not a good idea to have intermingling with sixth graders and senior high schoolers and well it would be seventh graders but you know I went when I went to Logan when it first opened I went
070over as a tenth grader the first year it opened but the ninth graders came with me I mean that was never happened before And there was people worried about ninth graders over there big time. So it was nice because I was never the peon over there. I can definitely see where there would be concerns having seventh and eighth and ninth. You never got duct taped to a flagpole? No, never. There's time. We'll run a fundraiser. We have a renew the block initiative with habitat for humanity clearly region eagles capes and so Keeping us on that site would be nice You just put a lot of we just have had a lot of great things happen on the outside of our school Which is brought so much so much good to the inside of the school,
071too And as a new ninja warrior course, you can come in We need a little bit better acoustics in the playground there for Confluence concerts, though. We do. We actually were talking about that at the Confluence concert there. We think we need a mural back there. That would be really good, yeah. I'm a proud owner of a brick. I am, too. Nice. Yeah, I think I mean we've talked in the past about for example the the money we've put into the Eagles Club for Polytechnic and and all of the investment that has gone into the whole block through that project and others is I mean rainwater mitigation and green space everything like really important and it's involved students at times as well, which is excellent opportunities Yeah, I would say to the Budgets here for
072the new construction don't include auditoriums But the Logan middle auditorium is where LCT holds all their rehearsals and has all their performances And it's because it's one of the few in town that's not used for other things during the day So they can leave up their sets and practice. They don't have to spend time rebuilding and repositioning their sets every day so that a band or a choir can practice there so we couldn't really we'd have to find Another space for theater in town if we didn't An important part of that recreate that Auditorium at at least 20 million dollars probably you know to add that on to the probably the high school at that point Which would make more sense, but that's another cost that's kind of not even in there to recreate what
073we have sort of two on their end. They have the La Crosse Film Academy partnership and they come and teach there and use that theater as one of our places to teach and film and do all of those things. Well, Central's having their redone this coming year, right? The seating and everything, right? And a quick plug, Friday and Saturday is Kids Annie at Loganville. It's going to be great. I heard them the last two and a half weeks. It is a hard knock life. The sun will come out tomorrow. It's going to be great. Not today. Quit looking for it today. I had a question for Joe. I don't know if this is a right question off the top of... my head or your head, but like I know that when we were thinking about
074consolidation at the elementary and we looked at all the facilities and the condition and the repairs needed and stuff like that, like there were real concerns about the constructed soundness of Spence, right? Even though it was a newer building. But Logan and Longfellow are good bones. We've got strong foundations. Good. Okay. Literally. Would those renovations include things like things that may be going or like the boiler? I know at Longfellow is potential That's in the regular plan Yeah, Logan middle gets tagged with a 1939 original construction date But that's just the gym and the auditorium on the far north side the rest of the buildings 1950s, you know so it's much newer than it is sometimes listed as It feels like 1950s, but it... Well, but the senior high was before that, right? Exactly. Yep.
075Most of it was torn down. They just added that junior high to it. Yep. I mean, so one thing on Longfellow in particular is the facade on the entryway, right? And that's one of those areas where historic preservation is going to come back up. And I just spoke about this, so I don't want to be seen as an enemy of historic preservation. To me, where that sits on the lot and how that sits on the lot makes a lot of sense to invest in that beautifully designed structure. So, yeah. It'd be nice if we could widen the hallways by about four feet and put in bathrooms that made sense and a few other things. Again I think you guys are in amazing shape here if November 28 is is kind of the goal again There's
076a lot of time here You know I sort of arbitrarily said you from now till August 27 just continuing this process me periodically with updates You could start some community engagement. I you know I think is as early as as maybe the first part of 2027 and then extend it to the to the second part as as it is does show up there September to November as a lead-in to a community survey. But again, I think we're in a really good position here and have a wonderful jump start. We have some clients just starting this process and wanting to go in April. So we'll get them there, but you guys are in really good shape. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you, Glenn. Thank you to our administrators for showing up, too. Appreciate
077it. Yes, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time. I'll golf clap. We do have a quick closed session, so anything else on this workshop before we move ahead? This one will be hopefully both. Fleeting? Is it fleeting? I was maybe not as tongue-in-cheek as I meant to be when I was saying that. I knew this would be an interesting conversation. But really good to have something tangible, again, to look at and think about. And those price tags. So from a workshop, do we need a roll call vote to go into? Okay, so we'll consider a motion to go into closed session. I can make the motion. I just make a motion to go into closed session. Yes, that's right. I'll second. We have a second from Ms. Fuchs. And a roll call vote,
078please. Mr. Alberts? Aye. Ms. Fuchs? Aye. Dr. Garcia? Aye. Ms. Cassidy? Aye. Aye. Aye. Get out.