001i'd like to call the city of ann arbor housing board of appeals to order please can we have a roll call um hello kristin hi glenn hi how are you good how are you doing today pretty good um my apologies long overdue i haven't attended an hba meeting since i've been here i've been quite inundated with all kinds of other things to handle and i've had my deputy handling that but i just wanted to introduce myself for a moment and go over a new standard that we're going to have to do with the open meetings so hello i'm glenn dempsey i'm the building official here in the city of ann arbor um [Music] i hope we can all meet sometime in a more formal hearing in person and um just wanted to say hi uh
002there is one other thing that i wanted to bring to the board's attention there was an open meetings uh ruling that took place and is now effective as of april 1st and when doing roll call you'll need to you can you can advise that uh present and you're remotely from whatever location um that's a new requirement uh i'm not sure why they put that in place but that'll have to take place at uh during roll call um with that deborah was there anything else that i might add to that no that was the big one so you can say i'm my name and uh or your name that you're attending remotely and it's from scion township or or actually ann arbor township or wherever you may be so um you know with that uh i
003guess i'm going to turn it back over to you kristen hopefully look forward to meeting you all down the road thank you great thanks so much glenn and thanks for that reminder deborah do you normally call the roll i can okay thank you okay we'll we'll start with yourself christian sway hilfer sure present attending remotely from pittsfield township michigan angela rasmussen present attending remotely from ann arbor michigan city of vanderbilt i guess i have to say okay lisa steller present and re um attending remotely from ann arbor michigan jerry schuttee and attending remotely from ann arbor michigan do we have tim durham means absent and for staff i have glenn dempsey here union arbor from yeah i'm in ann arbor today okay uh brandi lewis president uh remotely from adrian michigan michael redman john reiser
004president siro township staff brandon boggs president here from ann arbor michigan we do have a quorum thank you very much all right moving on item c is approval of our agenda for the board um we've received a copy of the agenda if you could let me know whether or not you would like to make any changes or approve as is i would entertain that motion [Music] make a motion to approve as is i stocked into it thanks angie all in favor do you have to do a roll call right a roll call vote on this now we could just do a voiceful a voicebook okay all right all in favor please say aye thank you agenda is approved all right moving on to public commentary any members of the public that would like to address
005the board can do so now they would have up to three minutes if you're an appellate you'll have your um chance during your appeal are there any members of the public that would like to address the board of appeals i see no one in the waiting room all right thank you we will close public commentary moving on to approval of minutes we have the housing board of appeals minutes from may 12th of 2020 it was a long time ago but they were sent out hopefully everyone reviewed them i would certainly entertain a motion to approve those minutes i moved to approve the minutes from the meeting on what would you say 2 20 may 2020 may 12 2020. thank you and i'll second those all in favor please say hi all right minutes have been
006approved moving on to unfinished business is there any unfinished business before we get to new business i'm letting it linger because sometimes it's tricky to get unmuted but i don't see anyone jumping jumping at the bit okay we will move on to new business which is um hba21001 variants for 566a kellogg ann arbor michigan 48105 um can we have the staff report please who's giving that today hi kristin i will be giving that great thank you so the applicant has applied for an appeal uh with regards to the ventilation requirements under our housing building code and one second here so they request the variance we have uh requests for ventilation requirements i will tell you that there was a in the inspection there was light and ventilation indicated however light is not does not need
007an appeal as it they can provide proper artificial lighting the ventilation requirement of four percent of the ventilation of floor area for the habitable room has not been met i will tell you that the building was built accordingly it did not meet the requirements under the code at that time which was actually ten percent requirements so somewhere in the process it missed that uh their requirement they are now appealing our four percent ventilation requirements that's under the current code uh as i might mention and i'm not sure what you're used to or what you've experienced in the past as this is my first time to the hba you have a standards for approval and they require pr um they have three op you have three options practical difficulties are unnecessary hardships or the variance does
008not violate the intent of the chapter and the variance does not jeopardize public health and safety so the recommendation um is probably seen in your your notes there staff recommended that the variants now be granted as there are alternatives that if implemented would meet the requirements of the building code small ventilation to the area as i had mentioned this building was built back and was under the codes back when the boca days were involved and um it was required to be 10 percent of the area and was not built appropriately unfortunately were here at this time frame and uh that would be staff staff would not uh let's see one moment so staff would not recommend uh leaning away from this and would uh recommend denial of this as there are other options to create
009that for that four percent requirement i'm all said kristen if there's any questions on that all right thanks glenn does the board have any questions for glen our staff uh i i have a question for glenn was a calculation performed to see how close it is i think on the applicants they gave dimensions that i don't know if the city agrees with from which you could calculate the percent ventilation based on square footage but i wonder if that was done by city staff it was looked at and while the it seems like it's not that much it actually is a fair amount it wouldn't be a requirement of a whole nother window but there there you'll be a much larger window than what currently is is in place okay do you can you sit tell
010on a percentage basis so how close it is um you know what i do have the inspector in um brandon do you have any um comments on that uh i notated it as being two square feet short thank you a new uh um glad i mentioned some relatively easy fixes so ventilation i'm just curious what that would look like in that room that window looks like it kind of splits in the middle at a mansured roof so i'm not sure if you're talking like a wall ventilation that would go out into that mansard and down into the soffit or and i know it's not your job to design it but i'm just curious you know typically what would be done in a situation like that to provide some kind of powered vent so there could
011be a possibility of a couple options one would be bringing in fresh air from the outside of course location i'm not sure exactly where that could be placed appropriately but i will tell you that another option that would probably work would be a continuous working bath fan which brings in um we'll move that air around and and take care of the issue that would generally be designed by you know the mechanical um contractor would get involved with that type of uh situation and could provide the documentation okay thank you thanks jerry that was one of the questions i had as well any other questions for staff all right i think we have the appellant here and we received your appeal so do you want to give us a little bit of information about what you're
012appealing and why please introduce yourself and provide is it your address that you normally provide i think yes location okay uh i'm marnie do you mean my address of the property or the address where i currently yeah i think that could be where you're currently located and then if you want to give the address of the location of the for the appeal okay um sorry i'm a little nervous uh i'm marnie smiley i'm in chicago illinois and my property is 566 kellogg apartment a ann arbor michigan 48 105. and um i guess the reason i'm applying for a variance is you know in looking well i guess i have a few things on my mind but um you know there's 29 other renters who have the same that are in the same complex and all
013of these buildings are built exactly the same there's 64 units and there's 29 other owners that are also renting their property and no one's made any structural changes to the outside of their uh property so i did talk to my um person who works in my house as well as someone who you know would help me on the mechanical side of things so someone more than my standard person and you know putting a window in there putting a larger window just isn't going to be possible according to our bylaws of the condo association the other thing that we tossed around is a skylight which is another way i guess sometimes these things are solved also not possible so that brought me to applying for a variance which is where i'm at now um my question
014here is it's you know i'm there's two large rooms upstairs one of which you know i've always just considered them both bedrooms but i've always just lived there as a single person occasionally with a roommate um but i've never rented it out to more than two people and i'm wondering if it's just a one bedroom like that this other room is just in another room as well so i don't know i guess that's all i have to say all right thanks marty no need to be nervous that's we're just i know it's all over our screens it's a little bit different i know this probably works out even better for you chris christian this is lisa stalter can i can i say something as a real estate agent and i've sold several of those units
015back there and they are originally i believe designed as apartments and then they were converted to condominiums it seems to me like they at one time were all rentals and i'm wondering why why this applicant is having to to make a structural change like that when we know that i think if you talk to the association because i just sold one over there i think that there are 22 current rentals out of the 60 uh two units right now and nobody else is having to do that and i guess i'll bring that back to staff um and through the rental program glenn or brandon if you can address that question oh brandon i'm not sure if you you're involved in any of the other projects i you know i'm unaware of it i will tell
016you that it was not built appropriately to the code at that time um while it's not there it doesn't give us allowances on you as a renter to go forward when when i'm aware of it and became became aware of it with my inspector finding this this issue there may be non-structural allowances that could be done to correct it and that's that was the mechanical continuous fan for a bathroom that brings in additional air um or you know moves air or the other thing while i understand the windows themselves are difficult and you may have an issue with your your association or management company um i think you have other options that might be available yeah and and to be honest i i would not be going back trying to enforce code on other other
017properties as you had mentioned there are several that may have the same issue 28 other properties are being rented out right that are exactly the same as my unit well i understand that unfortunately we're guided by our housing and building codes uh when we become aware of them i'm not sure what took place with regards to um these other units i just i looked up a lot and it doesn't seem like anyone else is applying for the same kind of variance so i don't know that's why i'm feeling i'm sorry it's lisa stelter again is there no fan in the bathroom currently uh i don't believe so i honestly don't remember it's been like a year or two since i've lived there a question for staff would would a fan in the bathroom be acceptable
018or would that have to be located in the bedroom no i think a a continuous operating fan in the bathroom would most likely meet those requirements you know that's something for the mechanical contractor to figure out but i believe that we've had that situation happen in past occur you know situations like this i'm sorry i don't know what a continuous operating fan is you explain that so in more of our modern homes newer homes when you go in you have a light switch and you have a switch that turns the fan on a continuous working fan would not have a switch it would just always be operating unlike an operable window that you can close and have no ventilation correct correct i have a question about that just because i also manage a property in
019there and i've managed two at a time in there that have always had the cfo so i understand the frustration because i've never been cited for that pretty sure there is a bathroom fan there i would be concerned about a neighboring unit may or may not be a rental if that fan causes any noise it's noisy situations because sometimes when you have a neighbor if that fan runs continuously that might be an issue just uh not throwing it out there to create more drama it's just that if it runs all the time it could bother a neighbor because there's usually at least one if not two adjoining units in those buildings so i i do understand again there are code requirements whether they were fully met or not when it was constructed we have um
020noise requirements or sound transmission requirements in the code hopefully those have been met if they if they weren't i'm guessing that we'd be getting complaints or calls that people can hear the people next door right do we know if any of the other units have this continuous fan going right now or have had this requirement i'm unaware of any uh not knowing okay i mean i looked i looked up as much history as i could on the other units especially the ones that i know that are rentals and i don't see any additional applications for this kind of variance so i mean i'm yeah i'm not i can't i can't know everything but from what i can tell no with the associate do we know if the association since they won't let you change the
021windows will the association allow for a continuously running fan to be installed um i i don't know they're they're fairly big sticklers on a lot of things uh yes i know i've seen several in email so i was bringing up the noise complaint yeah uh i'm not exactly sure i mean the the neighbors around me it's a my current renter is a widowed like six-year-old woman and then the person next to her my neighbor is uh probably about the same age like so i don't i don't have any other information and and i'm assuming from the floor but that was designed and intended as a bedroom from day one correct this is a two bedroom unit probably taxed that way as well correct and jerry these were apartments managed by wilson white for years okay
022so they've passed these rental inspections probably for i don't even know i think they converted to they they were allowed to be converted to condos in 2000 or 2002 when i look back at how the deed got transferred are the windows original as far as you know yeah the windows i mean as far as i know every unit is like i went to every single unit that would be equivalent to mine and they all still have the same setup and they all still like look the same as mine because i mean we can't make changes i actually called the um the folks that run the property management yesterday just to kind of hash through like what are the options and none of those are the options so thanks for that discussion i you know i
023is a as a regulatory professional in my kind of day job this is particularly tricky for me because i i really strive to see um fair and equal application of rules and you know it sounds like we have a gap in our knowledge in terms of like how many others may or may not have you know if they've been altered to have these fans or not um so that's certainly a question i think it's important to answer because i do want to see that on the other hand when we know of a problem saying nobody else has done it doesn't necessarily mean that we don't want to make corrections where we can um so i i'm i'm a bit torn on this one i have to say normally these are pretty straightforward and so i
024mean it's been 20 years that it's been potential rental properties it seems like it's one of the first times it's come here no other units had to go through this um and it's just it's i've never rented it out for more than one person so i can't really tell them where to sleep i mean i personally slept in the other in the room that qualifies for the light and ventilation when i lived there um this person chose to sleep in this other room so it's never been treated like more than a one bedroom it and this other room has just been used for an office that's what i used it for that staff is it an option to just list it as a non-sleeping bedroom and approve it that way without having to um approve
025the variant i guess is the question that that may assist a little bit um i'm not sure if we've had some of those in the past similar to that request but uh you know it's it's definitely requires a certain ventilation in there and if it's not met um you know if it's not occupied uh would be a thing possibly um other options although they they you know take other consideration into place whether the room was uh had a closet added i mean there are other ways to possibly make it not that that would be a requirement but that's that's something else that might come up but um the rules it is uh whether it's with a study or a bedroom or whatever would still have the requirements for the four percent right so regardless of
026the usage it has to have the ventilation glenn do you mind if i try middle on this a little bit please so my name is john reiser hello folks i'm a relatively new city attorney and i have on one screen the munich code where it talks about uh what the standards are so under eight section 502 it does talk about minimum standards for light and ventilation and i don't know if you have that in front of you but for ventilation it says every habitable room shall have at least one window sliding glass dot dot dot the total area for ventilation shall be at least four percent of the habitable work floor area of the room served and they do talk about you being able to do mechanical ventilation in lieu of natural ventilation if approved
027by the building official as affording ventilation in accordance with the standard ventilation requirements and the mechanical code so i don't know if that's a ceiling fan or i don't know if that's a continuous fan and i would defer to glen dempsey for that but with respect to the definitional aspect you know 1 through 26 of 8 500 it does define what it is to be a under parent 14 habitable room area enclosed floor space used or intended to be used for living sleeping cooking or eating purposes including bathrooms toilet compartments laundries pantries foyers corridors closet storage spaces areas whether have you seen all this uh maybe you have this up in front of you or maybe you don't under 8500 14. it defines what it is there isn't so uh i would urge you to
028uh apply the standard or apply the definition in 14 whether you approve this or not approve this is up to you folks with the criteria you have in front of you but i wouldn't go on defining what habitable room areas are when the ordinances have done that for us right well from the applicant stamp if i were the applicant i don't know that i'd want to limit myself for what i could do in that unit from everyone else in the complex you know through some agreement here so and i do understand the frustration that presumably plans were submitted to the city this was approved you know with a higher requirement and and apparently it's been approved for years and now this applicant appears to be the first one where this has ever been questioned so
029you know would certainly understand the frustration in that case i i tried i have a question for the applicant the dimensions you gave and the windows the 19 and a quarter the 67 the 29 were those overall were those glass dimensions do you know or recall um i think they were just the glass my my my handyman gave him to me okay i can i can probably give you some more context around it here in just a second though yeah i i just did a quick calculation based on that in the square footage and came up with um ventilation of like 3.9 square feet and i you know by my meatball calculation it was like you know 77 so two square feet seems like a ways off but if it may not be if those
030are based on glass dimensions and these are based on like you know overall opening i know that he had a discussion with brandon so that they could clarify what that meant because yeah this isn't what i do every day so i don't really know maybe brandon can provide some background to it because i think they came to some kind of agreement on what it meant brandon would you like to comment on the window measurements what was what was open and uh was used um i'm trying to look up my notes i don't have everything in front of me but typically when we measure out this room we get the square footage we measure up the window and uh by the clear opening definition we break that down into square footage of what's missing we usually
031don't do it by percentages i know that my guy's been you know this he specializes in working with rental properties and he's been doing this for 40 plus years so um i would think that anything he put together and that brandon's worked with a number of other projects uh i do believe we ran the numbers together and we both came up to about the same thing okay i have a general question that i should probably know the answer to um i know that there's a cost for the variant um and i wonder if the continuous ceiling fan wouldn't be less expensive or will they have to pay the cost for the variant and get the continuous ceiling fan together i guess what i'm trying to figure out is what's the out-of-pocket cost for marnie and
032the situation i already had to pay 500. okay so you had to pay the 500 to be heard and then they'll be if the fan isn't it is a way to approve the variance and they'll be the cost for the fan too correct yeah okay just wanted to clarify i have a quick question for the applicant um this rental unit has been unregistered and has been posted since august of 2020. so i'm just curious on why now you are asking for a variance when it's been close to a year of not going through with any of the inspection requests i had a lot of i had quite a few things that needed to be taken care of you know we had we had a water line issue um we had to put a screen door
033in instead of the glass doors that are standard um and i had a lot going on with like covered things that just kind of took my energy away from this so this just wasn't as a big of a priority for a minute these have been difficult times for everybody but i did take care of everything else as they came through this was just the hardest thing because i had to go through this process and i wasn't exactly sure what to do this is kristen um i was just wondering if it's so there's no other when we do inspections at this because it sounds like there's 60 some odd units here and there's 20 some odd renters there's 64 and then there's um according to when i talked to the folks yesterday there's 29 ranchers sure
034so a number of those i would imagine are in the rental inspection program some of them are yes some of them all of them right we know that not everybody always is under all the regulations and those are inspected regularly but we and they all have the same size windows so i guess i'm trying to see kind of just again how things are being applied and i just want to make sure that we're being consistent in that and i know that that's a difficult question maybe to ask right now so that's something that staff need time we could certainly you know kind of postpone this conversation and decision until we can get some more information because if there's you know i wasn't able to the condo association information wasn't included so i wasn't able to
035see what some of those rules or regulations might be um because again i think if it's if it's a building code issue i would certainly urge all of the units to somehow be notified and bring things up to code wherever possible right that's that's the ideal situation um and certainly i think this this starts that conversation but i'm just trying to get a little bit more information and background as we proceed yes we can look into it further to provide documentation and maybe communications is necessary to go to the the structures there it appears that i only see four that are certified but i would think that um let's not conflate the issue of whether renters know they have to get a certificate of compliance and the inspections on a two and a half year
036basis versus whether or not this applicant before us um under 8500 you what you need to do is you know maybe ask about the practical difficulties or the undue hardship if financial or discern whether or not it violates the intent of the chapter which is spelled out in 8500 to protect the health safety general welfare to protect the housing stock from deterioration and uh low cost to the renters and the houses so you know you you've got the code uh that spells out what what criteria uh the intent of that code and then you can apply the facts as you garner them from ms smiley and her application and her photos and from brandon and from glenn and and that and then make your call and you guys are doing all that but um thanks
037for those reminders those are helpful you know it is protecting the health safety and welfare it's about protecting the housing stock from deterioration it's about uh you know providing housing stock at the lowest cost to renters and the owners um and then you know apply whatever it is for 3.97 3.87 and make your call one way or the other right is there a requirement for how far a window opens in terms of being operable so for example if this this entire window tilted out six inches from the bottom would that be considered operable and provide the full area of the window opening yeah i believe that it's we're measuring window openings so if it if it opened more than what it does that would be part of the you know that would be part of
038the equation i don't think that we can make changes to the outside of the building like that um at least according that was my understanding and talking to our um sure your association but your association you might just tell them that they've now are aware of a code compliance issue with every one of these units that they probably ought to be disclosing you know that residents ought to be disclosing when they're selling their property uh so that might be an incentive to get them to agree to being a little bit more flexible well i think it's just because it's town houses like my unit connects to the back end of another unit and then i'm on the side of another unit got it that it would because we have a shared wall like that wall
039where the window is there's you know someone who's right there on just the other side of that wall yep but again and you know i i would struggle too in terms of determining how much of a hardship this would be you know the the ventilation option or is there an option to replace that unit with something you know maybe a tilt out where the full unit would tilt out and then give you the the area that may not be that may be a hardship in this case it may not be but i don't know that you know i sitting here today have a good feel for that one way or the other i understand ventilation is typically not difficult but if you had to ventilate through a flat roof or something like that and you
040your homeowners as our condo association had an issue with that or you had to pay you know take responsibility for the warranty on the roof versus you know venting out the side and is that feasible it you know that all kind of determines how i have one last question and it's probably a stupid question but is there any way that the ventilation could be increased through the through the furnace air intake or is that a stupid question you know i i would say that's that's could be a question uh that could be determined by a mechanical contractor on the fresh air being provided so it's air being provided or continuous fan uh were some a couple of the options yes my thought was with a continuous fan or something through the in and i and
041i'm not a builder and i don't know what i'm talking about but it seems like i've sold a lot of those units and they are not going to let you alter that building whatsoever so i think a window even suggesting any modification that isn't going to happen i don't know about a continuous fan in a in a bathroom but um i do know that i sold a unit and when we upgraded the unit to a high efficiency furnace we had to upgrade the intake outtake and it and it provided more ventilation inside this unit i'm just wondering how old is the applicant's furnace and is that something that could be considered i think additional combustion air coming in would be a good consideration yes is it possible to at least get quotes to find out
042if it's what the one if the association will even allow a continuous fan and two get a price for um miss smiley so that she can tell us if it is gonna be a hardship i mean the big thing i think right now is not necessarily the fairness of it because it's a problem but it might be a hardship if the association says no to that fan then there's a whole different aspect that we're looking at well if we would consider even combustion air for a high efficiency furnace as a possible mitigation for this it may be that the applicant already has one you know another level is is makeup air which you know i would imagine the unit probably does not have and nor does anyone have there but uh it is very conceivable
043with a modern furnace that you know it uses outside combustion air and we could consider that as a mitigation how old your furnace ms smiley do you know it's it's older she's you know i i got quotes on having everything replaced when i um had this renter come in um so they said i had another few years left on it but i got it she's she's got a little more life but not enough got it do you have any idea if it's high efficiency or not i mean it's i've owned the unit for over almost 15 years and it's older than that yeah but those have been out there for 20 25 years you would have like plastic pipe that comes out of the furnace and and uh either goes to a chimney or goes
044out the side of the the unit through these um but i'm sorry i don't i don't want to miss i don't i don't know um but i i know how expensive they are uh it's at least it was at least 10 grand which is why i said well let's try getting a little more work out of here i have a question for brandon do you have a furnace cleaning check report that would state the year and and what type of furnace it is um give me just a minute i can look into it this is kristen i'm just reviewing your application ms smiley and it looks like you indicated there were no hardships primarily because the association does not allow changes to the outside of the building so i think you were focused primarily on
045the windows at that time um and that you noted you would make changes if feasible and if the association allowed changes so i'm wondering given that you know we may have a mechanical option here if that's something that you can explore and maybe we'll come back to discuss that once you get some quotes but maybe brandon will have more information on the furnace and trying to solve this problem a different way yeah although if it's if the solve is a furnace and a whole new unit there i will be coming back with hardship was that or i i guess sell it because it's going to take me a little bit of time to to locate this you and while he's looking i'm smiling right did we determine the bathroom does or doesn't have an exhaust
046fan or don't we know for sure i'm gonna say 80 percent that it doesn't do believe that that does have a bath what's that brandon i do believe it does have a bath fan it's an interior bath fan i don't recall there being a window in the bathroom yeah that's wrong i've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of inspections since then but i do believe that it was an interior bathroom that would be that would be my guess too with an interior bathroom with no windows the two that i have managed both had bath fans in them so i would assume that that's pretty standard throughout the community thank you so i'm not able to locate those records at this time it may be it's uh probably wrapped in with the paper copies that i
047have i don't have those available with me here at city hall so discussion with the board you know i would propose we would delay a decision to get more information from the applicant and and you know potentially some clarification from the city so from the applicant or or from the city what what furnace type we have whether it's a high efficiency furnace and has make up air for combustion and then the applicant we could potentially ask to get you know information from a mechanical contractor on the feasibility of maybe even working with the existing exhaust fan to make that a full-time exhaust fan may have to be replaced out that would provide some equivalency in terms of you know the offset for the ventilation that's not required for the window and this would be the
048applicant's option but maybe you could have a window person look at your window and suggest if there is something that could give you the full ventilation by like tilt out even though it may not be required but they they may see it as an opportunity to sell something to the every owner out there eventually so it may be worth looking at i mean i just there's no way i'm going to be able to that's fine it's your choice but i'm just saying the the ventilation option sounds like that may not be something that's unreasonable cost wise in fact with a fan and potentially exhaust there that might be a pretty economical fix so this means that a fan runs 24 7. is that what the suggestion is i personally would not want a fan running
04924 7. and you know when i'm in my own unit so that would have to be checked with your mechanical contractor if it met the requirements but i will tell you there are all kinds of new products in in this current market that everybody thinks of a exhaust fan as being a loud thing they have very quiet exhaust fans now so that might be something that might be more reasonable for you to look into and less costly than some of these other options that you might be looking into further would a would a ceiling fan suffice like a in a a bedroom ceiling fan or would that not get any standards no i don't think it would meet the requirements i think that but their unit already has a ceiling fan as well lisa and
050then the other the last thing i'd request is that we get the actual dimensions taken by the city and the calculation just so we know how far off this is uh if marnie's fine with that i can swing by anytime uh during the work week and take another measurement and more pictures and i can look at the bathroom exhaust van just so we can get that and i can look at the furnace and answer your further questions to those yeah my current renter had some very big covet issues but i think with everyone getting vaccinated that we should be in the clear if not now then soon people in and out of the house and again this is a suggestion for the the board to consider too yeah that's not suspiciously like a motion without
051saying it jerry it is it can be emotion but yeah just speaking not quite in motion territory yet i certainly would like to see the city's suggestions explored um i'm not sure marny if you've had a chance to do that i think again you were focused more on the window and i can understand from a condo association standpoint there's a uniformity there that might be challenging um however given that the building requirement i think is 10 and we're looking for four percent that's a pretty big deviation to not even meet the four percent so i mean certainly i would strongly encourage us to bring things as close to at least the minimum four percent for rental purposes as possible and if we can do that during you know with a quieter fan um that's certainly
052one of the options available to you so um i know i'm interrupting in my apologies but under 8502 for ventilation it does say uh the total area for ventilation shall be at least four percent of the habitable floor area of the room served so our ordinance does talk about a four percent uh code selection i i've heard ten bandied about and i think the original building requirement from 1965 70 1970 and i think the building was built in 1965 if i recall correctly it's four percent though we're talking now though correct we're just talking about four percent i'm just saying that when the building was built it should have been ten percent we're way off that too but it's more of a con contextual item i just don't want to hold her to a ten
053percent if our code doesn't we are not holding her to 10 absolutely correct so if if the code is more stricter back then than it is currently we would only uh require the minimum code in today's world for a past more stricter code which is four percent not 10 percent all right jerry did you want to try that in the form of emotion sure so i would make a motion that in order to you know the board had more information in terms of looking at mitigation provided the applicant's willing we get the information on the furnace type to see if it's high efficiency to see if it uses outside combustion air i would ask the applicant to make some effort getting proposals or pricing on a potential offset by providing an exhaust you know exhaust
054air that's in the bathroom it would still be fine for that second room yes and yeah if the applicant wanted to look at you know windows and i realized the complexities there but that's that's another option or not an option right it's not really and then the last uh piece of information we i was looking for was uh just clarity on exactly how far off we were what the dimensions were you know what what percentage of actual percentage of uh the floor area we have in ventilation with the current scenario i remember it being we were at like three point seven let me see if i have that note so the room's notated as being 127 square feet so that means that it would have to have 5.08 for that room size right and i
055came up just based on the applicant's dimensions and i don't know if they're correct like that that works out to about 3.9 square feet so it is under it would be about a foot under we're getting a little outside the motion we are sorry [Music] sorry we're a little rusty and out of practice it's been a year so jerry i have a motion that you're looking for four pieces of information make i just want to make sure that i'm stating this correctly getting information on the furnace type including outside combustion air pricing on an exhaust air fan information on windows and then the calculation of the percent ventilation as it currently stands can i add to that the approval from the condo association for the continuous fan because they may not allow that is that
056really a concern i mean if you leave your bathroom fan on 24 7 you know i don't know that they have the right to tell you to turn it off well that's true too but if you changed the fan is that considered and i'll turn it i mean an alteration to the building that's that yeah that may be right it wasn't not necessarily the type but if you can't if you can't adjust your windows you may not be able to do the fan without the good point of approval okay a friendly amendment to add some sort of approval or review by the condo association as it relates to the fan yeah we're just looking for what the requirements would be is that it whether that's something they would need to approve okay correct do you
057need a second or is that do am i doing that too early um i think i need a second and then we can second and then you would make an amendment to the original um yeah sorry i i do a few of these same gary vee the jerry need someone to second him and then you would have a discussion and then you would make an amendment and you would have another approval discussion and then we would okay okay we're talking here about a motion to postpone correct correct or we're motion to postpone it's been moved and seconded correct it has been moved it has not been seconded i can second at least a stilter okay motion a postpone and a second and now if there is someone who wants to make a friendly amendment to
058that motion that's accepted by the movement and the supporter then you wouldn't need to debate that if there is a friendly amendment accepted by those two parties okay so i think angie already offered a friendly amendment maybe she jumped the gun a smidge to ask whether or not the condo association would need to address any sort of fans is that something that's acceptable to your motion jerry in your second lisa it is acceptable to me yes acceptable to me all right and i think we have the motion to loose pone all of the information we're looking for with a friendly amendment it's seconded we've discussed i think i'm gonna go ahead and ask for a vote all in favor please say i i okay motion passes we are postponing based on all of that stuff
059that deborah is going to fabulously die all right what are my next steps what kind of timelines are we working with uh what if the span option is like not approved or it's like ten thousand dollars like the other thing and i i it's i'm gonna be back with you guys either way it sounds like right right so and feel free to jump in someone normally we hold these meetings monthly or we we have time on our calendar so i guess you know i would plan to meet back here next month if we can gather this information i know condo associations may or may not meet that quickly so see what we can get in the next month in terms of the furnace type you know it sounds like brandon is able to to do
060that whenever during the week get a price on the exhaust fan if you wish to move forward with the windows or not and then the calculation which sounds like could all be done during that same visit um and then depending on the pricing i guess you marnie would come forward with a plan of whether or not that's something that you're able to do or whether it would meet the hardship or one of the items for appeal practical difficulties or undue hardship or how it would not jeopardize um the intent of the housing code or public health and safety and just out of curiosity what happens to the other 29 renters for the past 20 years that haven't had to deal with this i believe these cases are held independently from any other any other people
061brought into it and that's why you're here in front of the board so there may be issues there which we're not totally sure on at this point but this is specifically in uh for your apartment i would say though if you find something that works if i might add you find something that works and you want to move forward with it um and it'll be done by a permit and we would if it worked we would approve it and the need to come back to the board wouldn't be necessary if you're able to to complete that process okay i think i think i understand that okay all right do you have any other questions um no i don't think so thank you everyone okay all right thanks everyone are there any other items before i
062entertain a motion to adjourn all right seeing none who wants to do it i motion that we adjourn the meeting thanks angie second jerry second all right all in favor aye you motion meeting adjourned thank you everyone