Energy Commission Meeting 1/12/21

001e e e order it is 6:08 pm and I'd like to read an opening statement welcome to the January 12th 21 electronic meeting of the energy commission this virtual meeting is to affect social distancing and to mitigate the spread of covid-19 we intend to conduct this meeting similar to P in-person meetings Commissioners please remain on camera just as you would be visible during inperson meetings also mute your microphone when not speaking public comment will be via telephone only to speak during any of the public comment opportunities please call one of the following tollfree numbers 888 788 0099 or 5247 and enter the meeting ID 4502 that's 913 578 34502 these numbers will remain the same during the entire year for energy commission meetings this information along with the two local dial in numbers is also

002available on the published agenda in the public meeting notice section of the city website on the broadcast of this meeting on CTN Channel 16 AT&T channel 99 and online at www a2gov . a2gov.org backwat CN so um next I'd like um to move to the land acknowledgement and Missy would you please read the land acknowledgement statement thank you chair mki I acknowledge that the land the city of an arbor occupies is the ancestrial traditional and contemporary lands of the Anish shab including the Ottawa oju and B ofy and wind out peoples I further acknowledged that our city stands like almost all property in the United States on lands obtained generally in unconscionable ways from indigenous peoples The Taking of this land was formalized by the Treaty of Detroit in 1807 knowing where we live work

003study and recreate does not change the past but a thorough understanding of the ongoing consequences of this past can Empower us in our work to create a future that supports human flourishing and justice for all individuals thank you um Missy would you also lead um the roll call please uh commissioner hookham commissioner mccomber on mute but here yes uh commissioner shriber here commissioner cley here commissioner Len chair mki presid co-chair coven Garcia here council member Briggs here council member Rina here uh commissioner zoker here commissioner Hatcher present commissioner McCoy here commissioner jorg here commissioner Singleton here Great Commission Kerber I think we have a quorum yep I'm I'm here I will be here until about 7:30 I've got um another obligation thanks Larry appreciate you being able to join us for as long as you

004can um so um first of all um I'd like um everyone to take a look at the agenda and um if one of you would make a motion um to approve the agenda I would appreciate that I'm move that we approve the agenda do we have a second second do we have any discussion if not um all of those are in favor of approving the agenda please um raise your hand and if you can also indicate verbally that you approve it so approve approve approve Great Looks like we have unanimous approval um next um we have approval of the minutes um the minutes were loaded um um late this afternoon onto legistar um I don't know if everybody's had a chance to look at those um we could um either approve them now or we

005could potentially if people have not had a chance to look at them um delay that to the next meeting I don't think that would be a problem um do we have an approval to uh uh I mean a motion to approve we could then have a discussion on whether we take a final vote now after some discussion do we have a motion by anybody I have a motion from council member Briggs second from anyone second from council member Adina um has everybody had a chance to review the minutes um would people like to vote on them or would they' like to postpone that to the next meeting did people get a chance to look at them I think it was sent out also via email but it went out rather late um I think I

006have not had a chance to review them I don't know about the other Commissioners yeah I haven't seen them honest with you I I haven't either too so I don't see them on legistar yet either unless I'm not looking in the right place so I just okay I was gonna say I didn't think I saw an email with the minute but yeah I didn't get it me neither okay I I communicated with Josh this afternoon he was gonna try to get them on legi Star and I thought that he said he had but um why don't we postpone that to the next meeting I think it's a formality anyhow but at least this way we're doing it the right way so um sorry sorry to interrupt please yeah I also did I don't see an

007agenda anywhere is that sent to us or do we have to go to legistar to get that it's in legan so if you go to the City calendar and call up the energy commission meeting you'll you'll find the agenda there as well as um in the agenda are links to all of the presentations that we'll see this afternoon or this evening we also got an email from Josh with the agenda okay okay so um while you guys are checking on that if you want to I'm going to move ahead to the next point on the agenda which is public input and I have a statement to read there too this is an opportunity for persons to speak for up to three minutes if you are watching on C TN and you're not already dialed in

008please call one of the two following numbers 888 78899 or 5247 and enter the meeting ID it's the same number as before 5783 4502 this information is already also on display in the meeting agenda and the video feed C City staff will select callers that have raise their hand one by one using the last three digits of your phone number in order to electronically raise your hand indicate your to indicate your desire to speak please press star9 on your phone you will hear an automated announcement that the host is allowing you to speak when speaking please move to a quiet area and mute any television or background sound so that we may hear you and please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments Missy I think you're the one monitoring correct

009yes so far we have two folks who've called in but no one has raised their hand yet okay we'll give them 30 seconds or so chair you still have H no one has indicated why don't we move on we have a chance again later and if need be after the maybe the energy report I have since changed uh caller last digits 134 ah okay thank you okay caller 134 you are um we can hear you thank you very much Dr staltz and chair mki this is Ken Garber 28 H Hill Court uh I have for you a three-minute update on fossil fuels in new construction okay burning natural gas and buildings in 2019 generated 580,000 metric tons of CO2 equivalent greenhouse gases or 32% of the city's total emissions strategy two action one of the

010820 carbon neutrality plan includes the following assumption quote all new residential and Commercial buildings are designed and built to operate without the use of natural gas reducing the increased cost associated with retrofiting existing systems end quote this is critical because new buildings that burn fossil fuels will be pumping out greenhouse gases through the end of the century or longer it's telling that restricting natural gas for space heating is one of two elements of the a20 plan that DTE Energy objects to the other is Electric market deregulation luckily for DTE we have no way of enforcing either yet exactly one year ago before the 820 plan came out I submitted to energy commission a draft city ordinance Banning natural gas in new construction about a dozen cities around the country most recently San Francisco have passed

011such mandatory building electrification ordinances mine Incorporated what I thought were the best features of several existing laws nothing happened at a council member's request the city attorney's office issued a confidential opinion that such an ordinance would be illegal under state law I cannot see this memo but it almost certainly cites a Michigan law known as The Still d roet hail single state construction code act or PA 230 which supposedly prevents cities from passing their own building codes for new construction because the state code sets a uni uniform standard however I now know that law intimately and there's nothing in it that says that cities cannot pass stricter building codes than the state code I even contacted the Bill's author former Republican state senator Leon Still Still wrote back that his law sets a minimum standard

012only and that cities can pass stricter building codes if they see fit so the city attorney's legal opinion could be wrong and should be re-evaluated it's painful every time city council approves a new project that burns natural gas because we're locking in decades of emissions the the Planning Commission to its great credit is taking on this issue and with some thank you and with some success a large Apartment project near Pioneer High School valala Glenn switched from gas to electric when asked and the smaller near Northtown homes on North Main looks like it'll do the same two projects Veridian and County Farm Park and a mixed use project at on Packard are going all electric on their own initiative but many developers still refuse to do this um I should note that OSI I believe

013is preparing to push for state adoption of the international energy conservation codes zeroc code renewable energy appendic in the state energy code which is up for revision this year this would require new buildings to achieve Net Zero carbon emissions but I don't know what our chances are uh in summary we continue to approve new construction with fossil fuel infrastructure but the Planning Commission is fighting it out project by project and we're gearing up for a battle to change the state energy code which may or may not be SU sucessful thank you thank you Mr Garber chair bki we have no one else in the queue okay mki yes I wonder if it would be appropriate for the energy commission to or at least our councel people to ask the City attorney um for their opinion

014on this new information um and is aing of his his uh review of this law and ruling we have that at a minimum I'd like to at least look again and say nope I was right and we'll move on do we have any further thoughts from anyone um present tonight that um council member brings I would say I haven't I haven't read this so I will certainly request it and um I agree that there's um I suspect there's some staff wisdom on this as well as some legal opinions and it would be nice to have that Revisited if it needs to be or at least shared more publicly as well yeah I am U Mr chair I also support uh what commissioner C Cy said there um I think that is a great way that

015uh could be done within the current development needs of the city and really does speak uh like the caller said to the needs in the long run um you know especially with new construction like he said the buildings will be in place for decades to come and retrofitting buildings after they've already been built this is a very expensive process so as we all know so I support that wholeheartedly very good um I I just might add there's been some offline conversations on this topic and um maybe um we can take this up under um items for um future agendas um and talk about um what might be the appropriate way of handling this um in um commission meetings um do we have anyone else um John can you hear me yes sorry it's Chuck I'm

016on the phone I cannot enter the meeting for some reason again technical difficulties um on the state energy code I was an intervener the last time the current version was adopted um the contractors Association many others thought vehemently that we don't Advance the next round of the icc's latest energy code energy conservation code forward um same thing with the ashray 90.1 we we still as when aard will attest are in the Dark Ages on ashray standard so there is a need to press forward I attempted to do this by getting on the code committee um I was not appointed by the governor but um there's still Avenues and um as Mr Garvey said we we should take this up it's something I've been researching and I think there is an Avenue so let's talk about

017this and add it to an agenda this building Cod issue is critically important to 820 yeah yeah the current code is um based on ash standard 2013 and um new standard was updated in 16 and again in 19 so we're two steps behind so there's definitely a need to uh to act on this one way or the other um I think Missy that you said that was the last call correct okay very good um so we're going to proceed to the next point on the agenda which is the Energy report and then we'll go from there um after news from the energy office um in office sustainability and Innovation to any reports from Commissioners Miss yeah so a few things to highlight uh we are launching our next round of solariz events for 2021 we've

018concluded eight uh bulk buys over 850 kilowatts um of new solar have been installed in the community through that program we have our first cohort going uh in end of January and another one following shortly thereafter so if you're interested or have friends and colleagues you'd like to recruit into the program please let us know and of course with uh the stimulus package we had the extension of the ITC credits for two more years so we'll be having two more years of 26% which I think is uh really exciting for us we were um we were a little nervous about what the next year would look like if we were about to Sunset those credits so really excited to see the program continue growing um special thanks to our solarise coordinator Julie Roth for the

019hard work that she's doing um and we'll talk a little bit about some some ways we're trying to branch and grow that program uh later in the agenda also wanted to share we brought on board Sean Reynolds he's our 10,000 trees initiative coordinator um he is helping us figure out how in a20 um one of the initiatives is planning 10,000 trees over the next decade uh we brought Sean on to jump start that initiative which was not slated to really begin in Earnest until later in the process but the pandemic uh really brought this forward you can invest in trees it's good for us to be outside uh at this moment we can socially distance while doing plantings and so we jump started this initiative and Sean is going to be uh actively working he's

020designing some different programs he'll be talking to our a20 partners about them getting some feedback uh he's talking to members of the community now and hopefully we'll have something to launch in March or April for that initiative a formal program so it's really exciting to see that when move a lot of alignment with a number of uh things we deeply care about here the EV Readiness ordinance which you guys have been so instrumental in especially uh co-chair uh covin Garcia is going for its second reading on Monday to city council um thank you everyone for the really hard work that you've put into that uh we'll talk a little bit about kind of what's next in uh the end of the session but that's really exciting in addition city council did approve some grant funding

021that we received and and um approve the allocation of some budget that we have in OSI slated for fast Chargers so we're just waiting now for the ground to thaw and we'll be installing four dcfc chargers at City Hall which is really exciting they'll be the first Chargers in the fast Chargers in the downtown Corridor and then we've been working on an assessment with DD DDA to really increase the number of level two charges throughout uh our infrastructure broadly um and we are looking at a hard pivot now to thinking about uh low income and uh how we're going to expand EV access in that market as well uh sharing um apologies if you already know this we were asked by the mcnight foundation to submit a small Grant a planning Grant in partnership with

022Community Action Network and Michigan saves to do a whole Home Health assessment Indoor Comfort assessment designed by residents of a neighborhood with residents of that neighborhood and we chose the Bryant neighborhood so we uh had a meeting with the funer we have we hear in late February whether or not we've been successful but they've encouraged us to really start putting some systems in place to do that work so the money goes directly to Residents in the neighborhood will be U hiring someone through can uh that is from the Bryant Community to help with that work and of course we're working with Michigan saves and others to design the program very exciting stuff um in addition we are looking to launch a uh sticker campaign and some sort of educational campaign around beneficial electrification and I'll

023talk about that again when we get to the kind of ideas for collaboration with OSI just tell people what where the Bryant neighborhood is I'm betting there are a lot of people that don't that aren't familiar with it you know who I would ask to tell us exactly where the Bryant neighborhood is our council member if you would be willing to give us some geographical boundaries to that council member Rina would you would you perhaps help us yeah absolutely thanks that's my neighborhood um and so yeah it is um just north of Ellsworth that that neighborhood that is uh actually outside of the uh perimeter of the the highway um off of stone school um the Brian ele Briant Elementary School and Arbor Oaks Park are here in the neighborhood and so you you'll often

024also he it called Arbor Oaks um but um yeah it is uh between I guess stone school and the Forest Hill School Opera thank you yes I'm sorry I'm looking at my notes so I did not see that please jump in and just tell me to stop any second so I'm G to wrap this up here with just a few more highle updates for you our benchmarking um in particular in the commercial space is going well the task force meets um for its kind of final final is meeting uh shortly and then we're going to public comment so we're actually putting the recommendations together we anticipate early February those recommendations will be out we're going to have some Town Halls um an opportunity to really Gather Comprehensive feedback and then we'll reconvene the task force

025to digest that feedback and craft the final recommendations and then start getting that uh benchmarking into the ordinance review process similar to what we did with the EV work we'll also our hope is that we present the commercial benchmarking at the same time we present time of marketing so they'll go as a package since both both are about disclosure and then uh the rental efficiency standards are about performance and so those will go separately to council uh landfill solar to give you an update I'm sure it's been silenced for a while we are in the second phase of the interconnection study our results are due I believe February 4th but don't quote me it might be plus or minus a few days uh so any day now we could hear results this is uh the

026much deeper Clarity in terms of cost to upgrade the system and to actually make the investment on site uh this is a really important part of understanding the viability of the project and this also intersects with the filing that we did we intervened in the voluntary green pricing program that DT has we are in settlement discussions now about that program and the landfill solar program is a part of it they wrapped it in as a customer offering and so we are certainly um discussing opportunities to perhaps um if magic happens uh to turn it into a community solar uh pilot so that's what we're negotiating for um and we'll see we'll see how that falls out but that would be a lovely victory since our legislature hasn't been able to move it forward if we

027can move it through intervention um we're we're excited about the possibility and I will say uh we see glimmers of Hope but we have a lot of work to do before we land on that and then lastly just wanted to share we are trying to work with our GIS team to do far more visualizations uh if anyone heard Council last night OSI is going to be convening an equity task force to help us really Define some key Concepts that we're working on uh make sure we have really authentic engagement and understanding of the challenges we face and some of that is certainly about we often think of it as about data how do we look at information like how do we understand these issues but the data that I would put forward is the data

028I think about it's not really uh likely to be the most important things for people's lived experience so we want to work with stakeholders to identify what we should be tracking and understanding in terms of process and output um to demonstrate really Equitable and just outcomes so I I say that uh to let you know one of the short-term things we're trying to do is a much more detailed visualization of energy poverty in our community so understanding who's paying more than 3% of their household income on energy and then who are severely energy burdened those pay more than 6% and we have National Data and we've got some granularity but we're trying to really drill down and get uh more like neighborhood by neighborhood understanding so we can be more surgical in our support and

029implementation work so those are just a few of the things going on at OSI um just wanted to give you a a spattering question go ahead Mark Miss I assume those um those uh Grant funded taxpayer EV charges will be metered and my question is the energy to power The Meters will that be um tracked and reported as simply part of uh rolled into an Arbor's overall energy use and Emissions profile or will it be broken out separately in some way and if so where and how that's a good question and let me um I would love to understand kind of what you'd like to see for the data it'll be metered so we'll be able to pull and since it's on a city facility we look account by account so it will certainly be

030wrapped into our footprint for municipal operations but we also will be able to track exact usage time of usage really much more detailed information to try to pair uh Demand with supply for sure is that what you're well now that sui has has said that um our emissions profile Now tracks um fugitive methane uh outside of of the city for the power that comes in so I'm just trying to figure out how how the emissions profile for the nonrenewable energy that will be used to power the EV Chargers how that will be reflected um if it's going to be metered it it could be uh at least we could understand you know um and and do an analysis does the EV charger offset the emissions it takes to power them sure could sure could and

031you may remember this is unfortunately was a a tragedy of the pandemic that we were working on a pilot with a company locally to put in to install two EV charger Chargers that had a solar uh awning and that had battery storage so it it was really a data project it was not an infrastructure project we were trying to understand when we what demand looks like when the sun is shining how does it pair how much are we pulling from the battery when are we pulling for the grid and that was um with the pandemic we couldn't get the materials we couldn't move unfortunately so hopefully yeah and and that's still on our radar so as soon as we get that loosened up that project will also come online which again is a data project

032which will help inform future installs so we can really understand how we put that infrastructure in place in a Smart Way outstanding thank you very much good um I have just a few comments I should have said this um right up front and um that is um OSI um Missy and Josh agreed that M Missy would now be our primary um energy commission liaison to City staff um joshh is going to continue to provide a lot of behind the scenes administrative support um so in terms of invitations meeting minutes things like that we're still going to see uh communication from Josh but Missy I think it's your intent to um whenever at least you're in town and a to attend our meetings going forward um I had a couple of other comments um I wanted

033to remind everybody that um osis issues a quarterly report um and so if there's something thing um that you think maybe was missing in uh the update um certainly refer back to that or then um you can bring it up the next meeting or via email with um either Missy or Josh I have one question about the EB Readiness ordinance I've seen um the date of the meetings um um that council is going to be taking it up is on the 19th but that would be a week from today that's Tuesday any Council meetings on the 18th correct no Monday is Martin Luther King Jr Day Ah that's why okay yeah so it it is Tuesday is it is indeed the 19th correct okay good um and then um just um two other points um

034Missy would you take a minute and just inform the commission because I think it was an important meeting um not only just today but also the series um the meeting that was held today at noon um sponsored by the 2030 district and the Wasa County um contractors Association there's a whole series of meetings that are going to be held throughout the year and Missy was a participant and presenter today I I listened in um could you just give a real brief update on that and um give people a sense of of how we're trying to make uh inroads if you will into the architectural um property owner um and contractor Community thanks John so the Wasa contractors Association the 20 an 2030 district and AIA her on Valley have co-organized a uh year series which

035is focused on implementing a20 H for their membership it's pretty phenomenal they're offering credit of course um Professional Credit for their membership it is open to everyone I've registered for many of the events too and they range from high level to really technical um and it I'll say I think we can circulate the the agendas uh out to folks today's was the introduction to a20 and starting uh to get people thinking about what it means in the commercial and property owner land landscape we've already had some followup from folks who want to dive more deeply into how they can be supporting that which is uh pretty extraordinary we we had 105 people attend that that webinar meeting today so that was well attended um just two um one other thing from my side and then

036I'll open it up to comments from other Commissioners I just wanted to point out that the a20 plan um is calls for 10,000 trees to be planted on both um city property as well as on fire proper so um right now the city has been planting trees um on city property um and the 10,000 tree initiative is is in addition to that and altogether it's 20,000 trees so it's it's um significant so I'd like to open it up to um comments from others updates and um questions commissioner George thank you Mr chairman uh mine is just very brief uh so Missy um I'm very intrigued about the the 10,000 tree initiative um and I was just wondering if uh we could have the individual you mentioned as the point person on uh maybe in March

037uh before those those programs that uh you mentioned go public uh just so that then we find out how we can plug into that um because I think that would be um something that I think really could both raise the visibility of the a20 program raise the visibility of you know the energy commission's efforts um because people love trees I love trees people planting trees is really fun and you know especially in the pandemic it's a nice socially distance activity people could really get into so um uh yeah just like uh if you could have somebody on maybe in March that would be great I'll have Sean join us and just to give a sense of timing the reason it's going to launch in March and April is that's a window when you can plant

038threes in Michigan and survive just so folks know that that's what we're shooting for and then summer is a l it's too hot and then the fall is the next really big push for planting so I don't to think we we stole something gotcha gotcha would February be better then um if it's going to launch in March then do you think to have uh Sean on I'm gonna I'll I'll talk to the the chairs and see what's possible the other thing we can offer is a special session where anyone who wants to come can come and we can post that to you well thank you um I've noted it also in my notes and items for next agenda and I'm guessing not I'm guessing I'm certain that the environmental commission would Beed in a similar

039update um maybe we can somehow um make that a single update I don't know that's something we can talk about um for those of you um that um might remember there is a natural features uh working group in the environmental commission um that's focused on tree and tree preservation so there's um interest certainly between both commissions um commissioner cley it's just similar question um if he's going to come in February I can ask it then but if you just give a heads up I'm interested in the question of how the process or the formula to ensure species diversification how that's being done I know you guys been mapping trees but there must be some logic to this and I'm I have a personal interest in this so just curious how how they go about doing

040that yeah I won't do Sean any Ser service in telling you about him he is a trained Forester so he's looking at certainly A diversity of species species that are able to adapt to the climate changes that are coming and the other thing you'll notice um we have a dir of fruit bearing trees in our city and so where can we leverage planting to actually be producing food and healthy nutritious food as well so um just a fun bit of trivia fruit producing trees are female trees so we have a gender problem in our trees in this so we're gonna work on addressing that great other Commissioners yes commissioner McCoy yeah I just wanted to say I'm really excited to hear about the visualization stuff for the energy P poverty in an arbor um I

041had two things one are you already connected with Dr Reams on that yeah okay figured um and then I also just wanted to say that I do GIS work so if you need additional support on that I'm happy um to help or to help teach people how to do stuff or do stuff myself thank you a 30 second comment on that there's some really interesting GI Maps related to natural features that shows um um trees um in that have been you know that are in the public right away and their size it shows Wetlands it you can do overlays of all the different photographs aerial photographs of Ann Arbor going back to 1947 up to 2018 with 2020 being planned um so if anybody is interested um shoot me an email and I can send

042you that link um any other Commissioners yes can you repeat where we can find more information about upcoming meetings with the uh 2030 District a20 Washington County Contractors Association we'll send a followup um or I can multitask and find the website I apologize as um as I was speaking I think I had different login details than the website so let me let me find it for you and I'll circulate it post meeting thank you thank you thanks for the question and thanks Missy anyone else yes commissioner Zucker just a just a quick informational thing I saw from the paper this weekend EPA released their report uh last Wednesday for fuel efficiency it actually got worse uh it was for the 2019 model year average uh fuel economy went up or I went gas mileage went

043down by 02 miles per gallon I guess got worse by 0.2 and the emissions Rose so uh just kind of stresses the need of rapidly changing to electrification and the infrastructure to to back it because we're not going to get there kind of on our current trajectory with with internal combustion Vehicles yes commissioner McCoy yeah just another General update um I know this went out over email but the president's um Commission on carbon neutrality is accepting comments on their draft recommendation on until January 22nd I believe um and yeah I just know a lot of people here probably could offer some really insightful comments and expertise um so just encouraging everyone to submit comments I know Missy and a lot of the other people on the commission and both inside the commission and outside student

044groups can put a lot of work into that so it' be great to have comment real briefly on that topic if you do a search of um Mish pccn um that'll get you directly to it and and the title page there's a link to the entire report and a link to the public portal um comment portal it's very easy to use I've submitted um com comments myself so thanks for that reminder anyone else yes commissioner line uh yeah I mean I guess maybe this is slightly old news at this point but for viewers or anyone that forgot um Congress did pass an extension of the energy tax credit for new solar construction it'll stay at 26% for the next two years so that did happen a lot of other good things in that bill too

045which um we don't need to get into but uh if you're interested definitely uh check into that so that was that was big anything else thanks for all the interesting updates um we're going to move to the next point on the agenda we got some interesting things tonight um and first of all um postponed from our last meeting um we have um Mr hookham that is going to present some slides um that we hopefully all had a chance to look at and um I look forward to um some interesting conversation on those and Chuck I would appreciate upfront you telling us how you would like us to um save um or or ask um comments do you want those during or us to make notes um are do you feel like a lot of the

046way it's structured is you're going to answer questions as you get deeper into it or do you appreciate uh comments and questions up um dur during the presentation that's a great question um I'll just say that each slide I could probably talk for 40 45 minutes to an hour on I don't think you want me to do that um there's I think 18 or 19 slides so um there's some critical information I want to bring across on each slide some of it's been talked about already but um I want to make sure that some points are raised there's going to be questions on other fronts um if anybody wants to talk about how the grid operates in detail tonight's not the time to do that I'd be happy to answer questions in detail later I've

047got some help with me Teresa is also an expert she's on our energy commission and so I think the two of us and others from DTE and others could certainly answer questions at verum at nauseum should they pop up um I think for tonight my thinking is I'll present some ideas I'll try not to get into too much um detail and I'll certainly leave some time for question and answer I could stay all night like we talked about and um as far as um next steps go I think what what I would recommend we do is kind of go to the parking lot route which is people flagging some general topics we can we can have a follow on with Q&A I can publish something in writing a lot of ways to handle it but

048I think there's a lot of people with interest in this topic that this could take a long time and it's an evening so I don't want to get into people's personal time so that's my thinking and I'll leave it to you John let's um let's um people um make notes and um keep those to the end and that way we get a sense of where we are and we have a couple of other important things on our agenda um we want to talk and finalize um and hopefully vote on a resolution related to energy principles um and we also have um some proposed um projects for the energy commission to work on and I don't want people to stay too much after 8 o'clock so let's let's let Chuck get through this and then figure

049out how we take questions or move on to other topics at the end go ahead CH so yep so maybe John to that point one more time is people remember what slide number you have a question on we'll get back to a slot maybe question and answer at the end and maybe I'll just walk through this and Hammer through some of the key points and we we'll keep moving forward so Missy if you could go to the next one please um just while we're getting there um so I think I mentioned last time I've been in this in this power business for 40 years I've been all over the country all over the world I've seen different ways of of generating and distributing I've seen different government interventions I've seen different ownership structures I've seen

050everything from CCA communities to um people um communities doing their own thing um it's been an interesting career path and I and I can share a lot with you in what works and what doesn't from a pretty unbiased perspective and I hope to do that as the commission moves forward um and in in effect I've been in all forms of energy so as we get into distribution or generation or piping or how things work in homes and and how do we be more efficient in our use of energy I think there's a lot of topics that could pop up but I want to give everybody an overview its main purpose is what is the natural gas system what is the Electric System how do they work um they're not simple they're not they're extremely complex

051people don't recognize that and I think that's part of the Dilemma we face is and it'll get into some of these slides and I think people will tell that this is infrastructure that has been built since the 1900s you don't change 120 years of construction overnight there's a press to do that there's an urgency to do that we need to be pragmatic about what works and what doesn't and I think that hopefully is one of the key themes that come out of today is how do we do that how do we move forward and and recognize that there are some impacts and how do we address them and in a way that makes sense for everybody um if you could go to the next slide let let see so this is a summary of how

052Natural Gas is is developed um natural gas is underground obviously with with oil we refine it we recover it it comes out of the ground at a couple hundred pounds of pressure um we then have to pressurize it we have to treat it we have to remove all the impurities get it in a pipeline like I said compress it distribute it and um bring it to everybody that needs to use it so basically you're going from underground um could be a mile deep where our wells are at comes above ground there's lots of opportuni for it to escape the industries have done great jobs of reducing the amount of leakage because methane obviously is a a major producer of greenhouse gas and it's distributed and it goes through a lot of cycles of change know

053that every time you turn your burner on at home there's likelihood that some of the gas came from Alberta Canada and he may think that's not not credible but it's true Great Lakes gas transmission comes from Alberto I've worked on that system before so our natural gas that's used in an arbor comes from lots of different sources there's transmission lines that go across the state through the state there's a gas pipeline system that runs through next to line five Enbridge and Mao underneath the sprits the large pressure header that comes across from Canada so the infrastructure is very um significant it's been built over time and it serves us um in a reasonably High reliable format um you don't hear Too Many people losing natural gas for long it takes a right comp Ruster station

054or something like that a fire a major issue to get interrupted often times at the wrong times but natural gas is there and and that's its infrastructure and a nutshell so how it gets to us is is important um next slide please so I mentioned in Michigan we've got our own gas pipeline um systems in the state we have gas wells in the state I just um actually been in the process of of plugging wells in our system over the last couple years and so um there is infrastructure in place we have probably less than 15% of the gas in Michigan it's consumed is produced in Michigan most of it comes from large distances away I talked a little bit about pressurization how it's pressured up um to distribute it in pipe at long distances

055efficiently and then it stepped down and pressure where it's used and it goes through a fairly large cycle there um next slide please so we have some Alternatives natural gas's primary use is in heating we use it for combustion and generating electricity it's used in Plastics manufacturing it's used in lots of different Industries as far as an arbor goes Its primary use is obviously heating space Heating in particular um it's very inexpensive obviously right now that's the main driver for why people still build it to Mr garvey's point contractors still think it's the way to go it's the cheapest thing uh energy Equity is sometimes looked at only in the lens of how much people can afford to pay for it um we can alternatively use electricity for generating heat in buildings we've talked about

056air source heat pumps at this committee before obviously Technology's now got us to a point where electric heating is is close in efficiency and can provide enough heat in your house so that you don't need natural gas to support you um and obviously takes a technology change to do that and then there's geothermal one of the big things in pccn report from U ofm is the idea of getting moving from natural gas to a different form of heating for buildings which are right now steam heated we they use natural gas to generate steam steam heats the facility changing over to a geoexchange process is pretty significant it's going to cost a lot of money to do that and that's um something that's available to all of us we can all use geothermal um but again

057you have to factor in lots of different uh conditions whether it's reasonable at your facility or not so that's the main point from this slide if you could go to the next pleas I'm going to switch hats now to electricity I think we're more focused on electricity and what's going on today this is a map of what's happening and the infrastructure that exists in Michigan so um we're all situated in DTE service territory for electricity they're the ones who distribute the electrons to us for our use in our house the generators are all over the map as far as how many different people generate obviously the city generates um the utilities generate the municipalities generate um individual homeowners like Mr cavey generates so everybody generates electricity it's dispatched into either a generation to to distribution

058form in in a small scale with Rift toop solar larger generation gets stepped up in transmission level uh wired over to Sub Station stepped down and distributed so it was primarily a left to right type Arrangement where central generation distributed to users that's changing and more Generations being added at the distribution level to the right and pipe the other way and so seeing the transition and how electrons move across the system um and so there's many different sources of generation in the state um one important fact that I think people don't know and I've had a lot of lectures lately and people still aren't understanding this um utilities when they generate electricity um sell it to myo myo is an independent system operator that that addresses mostly Midwest um um system users demands um through

059generation so the utilities sell their generation to myo and then buy the generation back for serving its load or load serving entity so there's a market transition that takes place with the entity that's not a governmental regulator it's a market and then the state is on top of the actual distribution and and generation side of the equation so it's a difficult scenario with respect to how much regulation is involved in the industry it's complicated there's Market factors and I could talk about this topic for probably a couple days but we'll stay there it's very detailed very rigorous just want to let you know that this is not a simple distribution system to our homes um or businesses and next slide please this is an important slide it shows people kind of where things come from

060so U Michigan net electricity Generation by Source in 2020 so look how much is carbon based there's petroleum natural gas for coal fire so you see a substantial amount of coal fire gas fire generation in the state you see a lot of nuclear and you see some big big topics here coming down the pike because Palisades is over 800 megawatts f is over 1200 megawatt those are large nuclear sources that are going to come offline in not to distant future and then you look at the bottom with hydroelectric and non non Hydro Renewables which are wind and solar we've got to build a substantial amount of of renewable generation if we ever intend to displace nuclear and fossil field sources and that can't happen overnight it's something we have to work quickly on and I'll

061show you slide in a minute that talks to that but we've got a lot of infrastructure that exists that we have to change pathway on and it's not an overnight process um so this is purely electricity um another important fact is down to the bottom um currently the Michigan lower Peninsula consumes or has a requirement of 2500 or 25,000 megawatts of of online um reliable um generation has to exist to support a load across all of our Seasons peaking and non peaking seasons and we're Limited in how much we could actually import from other places to about 3,200 megawatts that's the um um current the capacity impr limit so if there are generation from other states that were more renewable we're currently pretty capped at how much we could actually quote unquote wire into the

062state to meet its demand next slide please this deals with electricity and and transportation um you can see that all of a sudden we've got some other fuels in there that are mostly Transportation fuels again look at the look at the magnitude of carbon based sources currently used in Michigan across all um sectors in 2018 and how much is non fossil based um we've got a tremendous amount of biomass in the state but a lot of those plants are going to retire and we've got palates infirmary retire we've got a pretty big gap now when all those retire and our carbon if we're trying to get rid of carbon a pretty substantial ho to overcome we're going to make that happen that's the main point of this slide next slide please um I don't want

063to talk too much about this one um other than we all know AC and DC um let's just skip this slide for the time being if people have questions on this we can talk later um Missy I think there might have been a slide that was skipped there um I'm sorry go forward please um no go backward one more I have a slide that's missing from this and I'll and I'll talk through it I'm not sure why it didn't pop up but um I mentioned myo myo controls the large generation that's put in place um across its service territory again think about Midwest and Michigan lower Peninsula is known as Zone 7 um it keeps track of Statistics so in like 2005 76% of our power was coal 7% gas hardly any Renewables 2020 33%

064coal um 35% gas and all of a sudden we have 12% wind and then if you look at what people are trying to build today you'll find complete switch and we talked a little bit about this transition step that has to take place all the applications to build generation in zone 7 virtually all of them are storage or wind or solar very little natural gas has been proposed to be built on a large scale that's an important transition and it needed to happen it's a it's a case of how fast can we build it and that's an important topic to keep in mind as we move forward any generation we build in this state it's got to be transmitted to the loads so like to a city or to a building or to a facility

065to a to a industry so where we build it becomes a challenge and so I can speak directly on this point because I'm involved in this daily is people do not want large scale generation buildt in the state um we get fought almost all the time on communities for wind um solar has become a little bit of a challenge as well At Large Scale um it's just going to become a challenge of how do we build Renewables in Michigan if we truly need to use the generate in the Michigan and distribute to our needs how do we do that I think one of the points that Teresa and others have raised is how critical negawatts are or energy conservation how we have to stop utilizing energy if we ever hope to meet um our needs

066with Renewables because we simply can't build enough to generate to get to this level and I'm going to illustrate that in the next few slides so here's the next slide which is important this is for Lance Board of Water and Light the city of Lancing is about the same size as as Ann Arbor um they have their own electric utility that also U produces water for the facility the key Takeaway on this slide is this is a graph of their load their electric load in the summer is the red line um Winter's is um the blue line and if you run down there you see at the bottom is by hour so Hour 1 is obviously 12: in the morning to 1:00 in the morning um so forth so in the middle part of the

067day in the summer you see the big peak if you look at December 3rd the other day in December of of last year in the wintertime curve they had about 340 megawatts of connected load that's how much power has to be generated to support their load at any one point in time during that day it's a pretty flat day of demand um there's got to be quite a bit of power online and um I'll show you in a second how they generate what they use to generate that electricity it's important to recognize that um that is important to have enough generation that's flexible to meet the load um and I'll explain that on the next slide please so I'm trying to correlate here what happened on December 3rd and I'm going to show you some

068wind we've got wind in the region um we also have solar and Lancing and what happens is you see a 12 in the morning we have a little bit of wind our wind turbine That's rated at 2 and a half megawatts makes one megawatt we didn't have that much wind it drops off um and then it rises up during the day and in that evening window we have a firm on a generation that's available from that one specific wind turbine if you look at solar you see a shape of a curve where the solar generation ramps up when the sun comes up and it ramps down when sun go sun goes down the main takeaway here is every time you see the solar drop dramatically on that curve it's not flat there's a cloud that

069goes by or a bank of clouds go by we lose generation very quickly so 10 megawatt that's generating in this case at 5 megawatts because it's winter time all of a sudden drops off in a fairly substantial pattern so if you can think about that 340 megawatts that they had on a demand basis on the previous slide going through the cycle of what happens when a cloud goes over um we've got a tremendous impact that happens when those things go go down we've got um um frequency issues voltage issues on the power lines that bring power to the user and they have to stay within a pretty tight deadband and when this type of an event happens when a cloud flies over the more you have that solar the more impact you're going to have

070on everybody's generation so for us to deliver electricity that's 99.9% reliable you've got to have other forms of generation online when these events take place and that's a critical line of thinking because you can see the wind curve looks pretty flat in reality the wind is kind of a flat curve it doesn't change as dramatically as solar does but it still doesn't necessarily meet the demand when you need it on the time basis that you're there so I just wanted to let you know that you know you see this daily winter Peak Demand by the time Peak hits in Lancing on a cold day it's late in the day we don't have any hardly any solar we fortunately had some wind the only way they could make it up was have natural gas or some

071other form of generation or else they simply aren't going to have enough power for for the user so it's an important time topic that I could speak on for a long time I'm trying to present this in a tight short fashion but know very informational and it's really difficult for us to provide that power next slide please so I'll just get into the goals and and down at the bottom here on on utilities load serving entities we're all forced to it's not forc we are it's part of our human nature as a utility to be affordable so it's important that people that pay for the service get such at an affordable price we have to provide reliability and resilience electricity as we Electrify it's going to become even more critical that it's reliable and it's

072aging right now so we have to overcome some of the Aging factors um uh it's number three on the list here as far as minimizing environmental impact it's probably top of mind more like item one now everybody's thinking as far as what's most important to us is moving away from fossil fuels but it's some that's part of the equation um we have to maintain um economic development in business we can't forget that and we have requirements due to myo and requirements to to generate and buy and sell on a daily look ahead basis so there's a lot of things that play when we talk about how is Generation moved along to the customer it's it's a difficult equation and this is done every day by every entity in Michigan that's a load serving entity is

073to how do they meet the load of their customer um looking at all these different Dynamic factors next slide please this is a little snapshot of Ann erber and how we're bounded just some infrastructure that exists I want to let everybody know that both electric and gas in information whether it's uh where things are located how big it is how old it is how how reliable is it is all what's called Ci or or confidential information critical energy an electric infrastructure information and it's not available anymore um up till 911 some of it was available now it's pretty much all off the off limits to people unless you're part of the equation of delivering so um you can get snapshots of information and I wanted to let you know that this is kind of a

074snapshot some of the takeaways on this are there are infrastructure improvements being made you can see in red some recent additions by DTE working with ITC to bring more power into the infrastructure of Van Arbor so that it's more reliable but on the green side of things is Generation so if you look at how much generation is in an arbor um if you add it up everything on the list there that's generation you're probably going to get to about three megawatts of electricity that's generated go back a few slides and we talked about demand and we're talking about during a cold day in Winter of of an arbor we're probably over 300 megawatts so right now we 3 megawatts we need 300 we're pretty far short so if we start thinking about changing gears and

075becoming our own individual entity we've got a larger load to serve than that's anywhere close to what we're able to generate today so very difficult for us to to change from what we're doing now to a different model perhaps and how we generate and deliver electricity to our our citizens just an important slide to take away also know that the infrastructure that's there or the additions and distribution have been done to enhance what's what was there our system in an aror is pretty reliable but even myself I I lose power three or four times a year it's becomes very impactful to myself as far as my business goes um it impacts every citizen in an aror so we need to keep focused on maintaining a higher degree of reliability to the extent we can on

076next slide please I'm not going to get into the details here I'll save some time for a committee meeting but um this is a nutshell of how power comes to you from substations everything's double-ended today we've gotten to the point where there's very reliable distribution um coming from utility to the consumer we're seeing in the middle consumer line more distributed energy going backwards into the system the more backwards distributed energy we see the more difficulty it is to maintain the reliability of infrastructure because of the impacts that has in voltage and frequency I'm doing it today we have our micro grid working in Jackson we were experimenting and trying to find out how far we can go with certain distributed energy um additions to the grid um it's a realtime activity going on at the

077utility level and uh we're hopeful that more distributed energy makes sense um and I can talk more about that topic and we can do a field trip at some point but uh that's all I wanted to say on that topic for tonight next slide that's a micro grid and what a micro grid looks like we've talked about that in the past so I'll just skip that for the time being um other than to say this is pretty much um what what our micro grid looks like in Jackson aside from we don't have this diesel generator gas for Generation a lot of micr grids do ours does not next slide please and just to wrap up um you know there's a lot of complication out there in Industry um there's a slide that I didn't put

078in the slide deck that talks about a study that just came out of MIT in Massachusetts that talks about what is is the infrastructure going to look like going forward how do we need to solve the problems we have and I talked a lot about Michigan's um system the challenges there the solution that came out of MIT was we need to build more transmission so that we can import more electricity so that we can take wind that's blowing in Iowa and bring it to the Michigan and serve our load here potentially and and come up with a better mix of how distribution Works to our customers so um wires could be a a more eloquent solution although a lot of people don't like to see them built in terms of solving this dilemma of more

079Renewables being delivered to the customer uh we won't do this poll but think about when you go through the list all the things that are out there that are in terms are of importance what is the most important to the city what's the most important to us as an energy commission um thinking about um energy and how do we avoid um continued greenhouse gas emissions and I'll just stop for that thank you commissioner hookham I'd like to open things up for comments and questions commissioner Cy on slide 11 Chuck I don't know if you can get back B where you can see it um but on that slide so I I assume the solar you're talking about there is centralized solar owned by Lancing Border Water and Light and that's what that's that's reflected um

080so my question to you is this if if that solar were decentralized solar on individual houses that were net metered some with batteries some charging their electric vehicles um and some without batteries would the problem be basically the same or would it be better so the good thing about batteries are they smooth the curve so some of those Peaks that you see coming up and down when when clouds go over can be solved through using fast acting batteries the more you aggregate rooftop solar together with and it could be centralized solar plus rooftop solar the better off you are if that power is smooth and we're not seeing these these sudden changes you can see in in scale this is a couple megawatts a minute at times which is dramatic now if you said that

081340 megawatts Mark or to be met with you got 10 10 megawatts of solar there so the question is that was not centralized it was 10 megawatts but it was decentralized would it have the same kind of negative impact given the fact that you none of this is none of this power 10 megawatts goes through a battery none of it's used on site to power um City owned City vehicles or city anything I mean plugged into the grid so it's the the impact of that um cloud is substantial and radical it's like a it's like a bomb going off in the power plant um but my sense is given you asked the question about an arbor an arbor doesn't not a municipal utility and we don't have the luxury of being able to to deal

082with this kind of a problem um so if we wanted to put in 10 megawatts or more um decentralized is our is our best option with maybe you know maybe a half a megawatt of a community solar here and there but you know we're going to do multiple smaller systems um and they'll be more resilient because we'll be using that power as I say to charge on-site Vehicles we'll probably be doing some batteries and will when the cloud goes over it isn't going to go over all over the whole one one array at a time it's going to be intermittent so it seems to me that this slide while it's it's interesting um for I thisly tell you that has a big chunk of solar n Arbor would is better off if we did decentralize

083solar it wouldn't have the same negative impact on DTE as this does on consumer energy and Lancing Bor are light is that is that correct so it's scale factor driven work it's good to have more distribution because more circuits are are less affected by change the challenge is what are the circuit loads and how is load distributed it gets a more complicated than just centrally versus decentrally located solar but I will I will say that in general if we could smooth out the gener across a series of circuits you're probably in a better State than if everything is hinged on one circuit seeing a significant uh generation Point great thank you very much I can't see anybody so just unmute and ask your question that way we can see continue to see the slides I

084I have a question and clearly Chuck the picture that you paint here is clearly Bleak we all know that this is very hard this is why we should have started 10 years ago but unfortunately we're pushing the utility to move in that direction when they're not leading in that direction the utilities are not going and being aggressive at helping solve this problem if they were I think we'd all think much better of them but that's not what's happened in fact if I if you go back in the last 10 years they pretty consistently resisted anything pushing them towards renewable energy so what's going to change number one is we have to make a choice between free market and Monopoly and we have to make a change is it going to be centralized like it is

085now or is it going to be decentralized and these are hard questions of course but they require policies and they require the utilities to actually have incentives to get to our 2030 goals not the incentives that they have now that's what I'm guessing the incentives are all wrong at the executive level and the utilties I hear you I I think that there are some policy issues that have to be addressed if we if we are going to switch in a dramatic format you're you're correct in saying we should have started 10 years ago probably we should have started 20 years ago 20 years ago we're still looking at building more Cal plants in Michigan I was looking at that myself um we didn't have this degree of concern and and the immediacy of the problem

086is part of our concern the other side of it is how this infrastructure is paid for and one could say well utility should just switch over everything in Renewables well there's some technical concerns about doing it but um it's the infrastructure that we built that's paid for over time um these Investments that are made um let's look at DT's 1.2 big U 1.2 gwatt gas plant that's a 35e investment that takes that long to pay for it so if you want stepwise change you got to do it quickly but you have to do it smartly in terms of finance and you can't simply uh take infrastructure still being paid for and say we we're going to stop paying for it somebody had to pay for that and it's rate payers and it's owners of the

087stock and it it's a it's a financial model that can't be it has to be addressed in in a couple different formats and I I think for Simplicity I'll this stop but it's not easy I I I hear exact all your arguments I think that billion dollar plus uh natural gas plant we just um got approved within the last year and a half I think a lot of people think it was unnecessary a lot of people thought if the if the Monopoly utilities had thought about this differently they could have come up with a different solution that wouldn't tie us into 35e payback for something that's going to be obsolete possibly within 5 to 10 years and it's killing our environment we can't keep making these kinds of decisions we can't and yet they do

088this is the problem they have to change their mindset so how how do you do that when you're running with a monopoly I wish I could run a monopoly where I didn't have to answer to my to anything I wish I could do that but that's not the real world we don't live in a world where everybody gets the benefit of a monopoly we need free market clearly if we're going to find a solution to this we need a free market to implement distributed Solutions I think we're going to talk about that Mr chair in a short amount of time here when we start thinking about alter atives um if if if we want to think about that from a city perspective if a if a Community Choice aggregation or municipality is of mindset to

089make a change if that is the solution to Larry's POS problem there are some challenges with that one of them's the Legacy cost that I mentioned um who's going to pay for all the infrastructure that got built um it if it's going to get knocked down because we don't want to use it anymore it's not uh it's not a zero cost so we have to think through those tough topics when we get into stepwise change I think there's policy and finance and other aspects of this question that have to be all addressed together anyone else I can see you also or just unmute your microphone um Chuck I want to make a comment on um natural gas I think it was your second slide we don't necessarily have to see see it um and I

090had some email communication with commissioner Cy on this and um Mark if I'm wrong or somebody else if I'm wrong correct me um my recollection is that the EPA has doubled and doubled again its estimate of um methane leakage the current estimate is roughly 2.3% um the range of estimates is something like one and a half of to 3.1% um you know with some certain confidence levels on that and um my recollection is that at a leakage rate of 3.2% natural gas becomes as dirty as coal so um obviously um the fact that estimates have been going up um are are not very comforting um I know that a lot of um larger gas and oil producers have done a lot but we also know that there's been a lot of deregulation in that area

091from um the Trump Administration so um leakage of natural gas and then using it for generation is is indeed a big issue I know it's um figured into um the inventory that the city does um and um there's details on that um um that's available through OSI it's also taken into consideration in the pccn um draft recommendations and in their calculations but obviously um natural gas um and leakage methane leakage is uh is certainly cap of mind for many people in looking at these decisions um including all the things um that uh Larry talked about and Larry mentioned that he had to leave um now um so that's why you saw him drop out um but I'd like to just um then open it up to anybody other have some comments or questions let me

092just say something there John yeah if I could real quick and that is if you think about methane think about what are the Bad actors here we all talk about CO2 because it is probably the most voluminous as far as greenhouse gas but if we go back 20 years again 30 years we're looking at hydrocarbons in our air conditioning units and things like that these are 22,000 times worse than CO2 and we made stepwise change it took policy and it took economics and other things to say stop using those products they're going to harm the environment yeah so we're making those changes it's and in the case of methane it's methane hydrates other things you're seeing in Siberia those are major issues that have to be stopped way more so important than CO2 perhaps Y

093and I think Larry's Larry would say no we we know what we need to do we just need to do it hell a lot faster yeah from the policy space on electrification um if you want to start to convert homes or if as we shut down natural gas storage Fields um and we would have to redo natural gas infrastructure in a certain location how is it that we can work together on policies or creation of new customer programs that could help utilities or help customers to convert their appliances to Electric appliances so that they don't convert to propane as an example that they would convert to electricity so that we can start to kind of isolate those problems to the generation sector and start to remove natural gas so there will be a series of

094um storage shutdowns if you will of different storage fields and so I think we also need to look at those incentives or helps for customers that we can partner together to take chunks of customers at a time and instead of building Gas Distribution infrastructure to them or redoing that Gas Distribution infrastructure we invest in electrification infrastructure versus that so that's kind of a policy issue or an incentive issue um that we can continue to Champion and and look at at this electrification and getting weaning ourselves off of natural gas or reusing that natural gas infrastructure for hydrogen um and so part of those stimulus packages and stimulus bills are also extending credits for Compressed Air energy storage carbon capture and sequestration so if we do have to have a gas plant for 35 years we

095should be looking at Carbon capture and sequestration and the natural geology in Michigan on how to get it out of the air or keep it from going into the air in the first place so there's other Investments that we can continue to to make it's just as we always talk about it's the speed and the myo that we talked about it's taking like two years to get a study done to get new transmission built and so we're also working to Advocate to reduce that study period to increase the time increase the pace Mark I see that you want to weigh in too here yeah I just um I gota I I'm trying to form an analogy between the total quality management movement and and what what you're describing that um for years um you know

096until we started tracking until dumming came in and we started tracking and understanding the how materials flow happen um in the manufacturing process we we weren't aware of where big pollution was happening waste was happening which in effect was pollution and by mapping that supply chain and then reorienting that supply chain um and reducing the waste and reducing the waste we reduce the pollution Etc and I think the same thing uh I'm seeing I'm seeing I just curious about what you think um that that other utilities and and gas natural gas suppliers Now using blockchain chain Technologies to track the flow of electrons from the gas well to to the point of usage and the benefit of that is the forc discipline of seeing where where leakage occurs um I think we're going to see

097from the Biden Administration the the demand that we use current Technologies space-based satellites to attract methane leakage Etc I mean this is not rocket science to do this so I you know if we stopped wasting this resource um it's not the burning it's not me burning my natural gas in my oven to is creating this problem it's the leakage this The Fugitive methane leakage which which I I believe using blockchain Technologies and other things could be solved to the benefit of every body including the utility what I don't see from a policy point of view is that the MPC is not incentivizing the utilities nor punishing the utilities for not doing this in Michigan so I'm curious one do you think that there is the possibility of major savings and pollution reduction in frat gas

098by tightening up the you know reducing the emissions from the Wellhead to the usage um and second of all are there policy issues that this body should take that would tell the city hey let's get behind this with DTE and Consumers Energy what can we do as Ann Arbor to put the pressure on the Public Service Commission to make it in your you know your worth it to you to do this so two questions do you agree that there are technology fixes that could be applied that would solve significant part of this problem like blockchain and if yes is there something we can do to help that help you if we tell the city to do something including having Ann Arbor adopt tell DTE we don't want any gas that comes in here for any

099watt or any gas at all that doesn't have a blockchain tied to it it seems to me that even if we failed at that it would be an interesting fight I I think that what we continue to do is collaborate as an energy commission and the things that Ann Arbor has already done that Mrs talked about like intervene in cases you intervene in voluntary green pricing cases you intervene in electric rate cases and we continue to work with our Representatives um to bring policy options to the state we have we can write resolutions and we can uh for different policies I believe that we should everyone should use the technologies that are available at our disposal to measure what we can the um infrastructure investment programs that are going on to replace what utilities called

100vintage Services is a short-term effect and that helps with fugitive emissions so looking at how and where and how fast we're investing um but it does always come down to how much capital and and where do we invest the capital the way the rates are structured currently in order to keep rates affordable for everyone right Missy talked earlier about PIV into low low income areas and stuff and how do we do that um so I I think you and know Mark you and I can continue to work offline with the um other Commissioners and stuff and try to find those particular policy issues um from a natural gas perspective but you can also I mean we can use drones for forestry programs that can tell us what kind of trees are growing by the cameras

101that we use so I know that we can identify natural gas leaks and other things there's lots of different Technologies out there that we can investigate but it being 7:30 Mark let's you and I take this offline cool cool thank you and I got a lot to share on the technology front to Mark the other point you raised is on the regulation side of things in mpsc as you know personally they're pretty short staff think about what happened in the mid- Michigan Dam collapse that happened and what's happening as a result of that I mean clearly a case where there weren't enough Regulators involved in the in the equation and people looking the other away um we have we have thousands of oil and gas wells in Michigan alone how do you think those are

102going to get regulated that's not an easy solution and you add all the pipeline valves and everything else the leakage points it's not a it's not a simple problem but Technologies like GIS and and drones do exist to help so more on that later so thanks for okay um one we'll take one last question from commissioner Zucker and then we'll move on to the next topic just a quick question so we're kind of hamstrung a little bit by policies of the the myo network but within there uh of all the states in the myo Network are there certain states that we could be benchmarking as kind of the leaders of of renewable energy within this overall system that we're we're kind of stuck with I think Teresa yeah I think if you look at the

103states in myo you'll you'll find that Michigan is pretty advanced in terms of Renewables Minnesota's probably a little bit ahead in terms of certain policy changes that have happened Illinois's got some different policies but they're not necessarily all of them ISO state so there those are the more advanced States some of the other ones mostly down south are still significantly more carbon intensity in terms of their fuels yeah we Benchmark like he said to Minnesota but we also then really should need to look out and look at the coasts right because the coasts usually go faster than the Midwest and so where you guys have been looking for ordinances and lots of looks to California Massachusetts the New York rev those are other places uh Wisconsin Energy is a good one and Excel Energy is

104also a good one um within the Midwest footprint okay um with respect to everyone's time let's um go ahead and move on to the next subject um I encourage um all of you to contact commissioner hookham and commissioner Hatcher if you have specific questions and if you think um at the end of that they're of interest um for the group as a whole we can put that on the agenda of another meeting and as was mentioned um we have some things coming up um in plann for future meetings for a week and talk about that at the end of the meeting that I think will'll keep this dialogue going so um the next um is um an energy principles resolution presentation and I'm Miss see I'm going to turn things over to you for that

105sure I I didn't prepare a formal presentation although I do have slides that I'm happy to share that we shared with Council last night uh this is revisiting the conversation that we had in December around energy at that time we were just calling them energy principles but I just wanted to first and foremost say thank you thank you for the feedback you gave at the meeting thank you for the feedback that I got in emails for many of you I know I had some sidebar conversations with a number of Commissioners to really understand kind of the issues that were being raised and addressed so I just wanted to uh highlight some of the changes that were made between when you first saw the principles to where we are today um first we have uh reframed

106them so there are three core criteria and then five principles the core criteria are things that are sort of the rocks of the the work and those are additionality reducing greenhouse gas emissions and equity and Justice and then the principles um are we've added uh I'm sorry we've had uh affordability in that came from this commission as well uh so we had four and that sort of elevated and those are things that we want to maximize to the fullest extent possible but we do see scenarios where there'll be conflict with some of those principles either with themselves or possibly with the core criteria so core criteria have to be centered um and then the principles maximized to the extent possible um other things to elevate that changed is we were thinking about um the description

107of equity has evolved quite a lot we talked quite a bit as a commission around um I would this is my summarizing so forgive me if this isn't as eloquent um procedural and distributive justice I heard you talk quite a lot about and so we brought that language explicitly into the description and then there was quite a a lot of discussion and really rich discussion around um making sure people are properly compensated throughout the system for the the work that they do and we have a responsible contractor policy that Council passed and so I took a lot of your feedback and tried to align it with the way we're approaching Contracting overall so that we acknowledge we want Obviously good Fair Labor practices integrated into the work that we're doing Miss I have a quick

108question um are did you say there are now four criteria no there there um there are three criteria and five principles and five and you talked about affordability where um the I have a print out in front of me here I will share my screen because I think I have this open for just have to find the right one here cost effective I I see that cost effective okay that's what you mean not affordability yeah yep and so that wasn't in last time okay okay great thank you my screen I'll try to I just wanted to make sure that what was uh attached in legist Star isn't indeed the the most recent version okay absolutely and we did talk to city council last night in a work session um about these criteria and principles the

109discussion was really great and uh we got some clarity and I I think also some I would say broad support to to keep going like you're on you're on the right track here with these um use your expertise use the energy commission as well uh not necessarily in terms of like redo the principles but when you apply them you know working with the commission and then to evaluate options as you're bringing them forward to say here's why we're coming with let's say a virtual power reduction agreement or a virtual power storage agreement or why we're coming with h a new build in our community and a PPA program you know all of this don't worry if I just threw out acronyms that don't feel comfortable U the co-chairs and I are talking about kind of

110a series where we're going to explore these with the commission so what we heard from Council was this sort of feel this feels this feels good like you're touching on the topics we care about um do it right like they're excited to see what comes and so are we um most of our discussion actually did focus on the second principle about what is local right so uh that's an important question because in some places local can be up to 250 miles away or local can be within the county and so we really wanted to understand kind of how people conceptualize that and while it wasn't broadly consistent I would say I walked away saying Michigan like I hear Michigan I I hear that um as being important and also making sure we look in our

111own backyard too like the green belt like rooftop solar like landfill solar like making sure we check local boxes so all of that is a way I'm sorry I'm sorry to interrupt this um if there's time tonight I'll let you judge that I would be interested to pose the question that you did to have you posed the question to the commission about local and get some feedback from this group as well yeah that's great um and and I will certainly do that the only other thing I wanted to add is we were asked to do and we have been thinking about this a a way we'll evaluate you you all mentioned this too how will we evaluate these criteria uh and the answer is we have a prioritization framework most of the things in that

112prioritization framework touch on these principles um and these criteria there are a few like location that isn't in there so we'll have to add that in but we're going to stay true to the prioritization framework and do sort of a plus where we need to add specificity in so we'll be running um we're going to run a test B what once we land on what the final criteria principles are um we'll be doing a test of running two or three different energy options through and see how they score out Missy I have a question can you explain sort of the difference between criteria and principles I still don't really grasp that our criteria more sort of musts and principles our sort of wants yes where we say we're not going to do something unless they

113meet these musts um and then when we then go from there and look at various Alternatives um then we're going to evaluate those based on these principles and um essentially say okay we want to do each one of these but we realize that um some of these are potentially going to be in conflict with each other if we do something fast it may be not not quite as costeffective is that a good way of understanding these yeah that's absolutely right that's absolutely right so I would expect any for example resolution that we brought to council would explicitly call out how it aligns with the criteria and then would highlight what principles we met and why others were a challenge and not possible in this particular offering go ahead Mike I I was just gonna ask

114um you anticipate in using these as sort of scoring criteria for projects at some point or you know I'm thinking back to the original climate action plan and sort of you know took probably actually a mixture of criteria and principles and used them to score different projects in theory to look at where we were going to put um resources into are you thinking of it in that operational framework or is it is it more conceptual than that it's it's both it's an outstanding question um thank you for asking it commissioner shriberg that I see this across that Spectrum so we're you know we've been working on our energy strategy and uh candidly we have a virtual power purchase agreement as something we're thinking about and I have to write an RFP if that moves forward

115and I need to know what I'm asking our developers to think about what are the core things that we're going to expect to see that are then going to be ranked and graded in respon that's very concrete but also if this comes back it may tell me a virtual power production uh or power purchase agreement isn't the right thing it also will inform what we invest in it might be more local gener generation that we invest in so it's allowing us to make strategic decisions at a high level and then Implement those decisions with contractors because we were able to to very explicitly say when you build for us we Define local in this way we're looking for local builds I think we had a question from commissioner Cy was it too Mark uh it's

116a just sort of an observation Missy this reminds me of the good old days and we used to talk about good fast cheap pick too um because my sense is that this is going to come down to that a lot um so I would encourage you to um you know let this group help you deal with that because I think we're going to be mostly forced into the position of picking two when we start moving on this um and that we've done most of the easy stuff already this is going to get more as we move forward so uh great stuff and I love John the way you you you have positioned this because it's it's it's right you know reducing green C gas emissions start L local yes scalable well that's gonna be a

117real problem but yes stuff um you also reminded me of one other thing that I think is very important we did lead pretty heavy with new builds we changed the language in here to be explicit that this is both about efficiency and renewable energy generation and so uh we will also prioritize Energy Efficiency projects in this way so one of the things we raised last night is if we're thinking about equity and Justice maybe if we did a power Reduction Program we focus on doing work in Highland Park or Corktown first and uh when we do it local who goes first to so all of this helps inform the data we collect and how we partner and get those reductions in the system I think I saw commissioner mcoy wanted to say something yes go

118ahead yeah thank you um I was wondering if you could explain the new cost effective principle a little more I guess just because when I hear cost effective I don't necessarily like assume affordability but I don't know if I'm just reading it the wrong way and so I was wondering if when you say like find solutions that are affordable as possible do you mean like for the city or for rape carers or is it assumed that what's cost effective for the city is also affordable for the rate pairs um so I was wondering if you could explain the yeah excellent excellent question um it is both to your point uh for example we'll be using these principles when we make decisions for municipal operation purchasing so in that case we'll be looking at the ROI

119um you know that's not just The Upfront cost that's also the cost to maintain that infrastructure uh the longterm uh factoring in a cost of carbon into those calculations which is something we're starting to you know try to do with the city as well um that's pretty nent candidly but we're exploring it so certainly for City operations but that's really our our kind of Ledger which is still taxpayer dollars and then also when we're thinking about Community Solutions um how are those Solutions being paid for and what's the impact that they have on people's budgets you know can we do things that are to the extent neutral um there are some solutions that will be fairly neutral there are some solutions that will have a small premium and there are some things we could do

120that are really really cool that will be quite expensive and so we just we just want to have space to really talk about that and figure out the pros and the cons um so this is just it is not the deciding factor in terms of what we recommend now it may be a deciding factor in what our elected body chooses to move forward with but it you know it's it's a reality and so we want to be able to to factor scoring in to our decision making thank you other questions or comments I'm scanning through um I have one brief one um related to um this concept of starting local and I think it also ties into equity and Justice um you can leave it there Missy um so one thing um that I'm wondering

121is um in terms of um grounded in equity and Justice if there should be any thought to being restored ative um and and not just um something where we're um sustainable and where we're doing it with equity and justice but we also look at where have people suffered historically from climate injustices and I think that as a bearing on what you do locally or not um and indeed you know some of the people that um have and will be suffering the most from climate Injustice if you will um are definitely not in an arbor um and certainly many of them are um close to locations that have been um where power has been generated or where for example there's a lot of um diesel truck traffic and things like that but some of them are

122even farther away from um from home and I'm wondering if um this idea of starting local and then um as we go out from there if that's potentially in conflict with um the idea of restorative justice which we really haven't captured yet I think that's a really good good point John um the way I would respond right now is you very eloquently framed The Three core criteria being musts and equity and Justice is a must local is I'd like to have in that Framing and so we would have to reconcile that those points yeah I guess my main point is I there was an email exchange on this topic that I had where I got some push back from some people on the environmental commission um and saying that you know potentially we may go

123go farther farther from home in order to to look at something um that is um potentially compensating for and and grounded in equity and Justice and from particularly from the um a restorative justice um perspective and I I know some people very feel very very strongly we need to be looking um within essentially eyesight if you will or you know an hour's travel of an arbor so to speak um and there's other people that say well maybe we need to be thinking um and loosening up a little bit on the local side so I I think that that tension is maybe was what um council member Briggs was talking about when she was talking about this this this issue of what what how important is local and how do we judge local and in what

124uh in what context or with what Viewpoint I don't know let we change anything but um it's just something to think about um what I'd like to do is um draw this into a point uh to a close if no one has um any additional uh really significant comments and that is we have a resolution um and um that is attached to the document and is in legistar um and what I would hope um that we can do is um I I I guess we had a first reading because we did consider this and um we I don't think the resolution has changed so what I'd like to do is put it up for a vote tonight so that we can at least as a commission draw this to a close that doesn't prevent Missy

125and Council from um listening um to what what we've discussed tonight and making some additional tweaks or um opening their ears to maybe other voices before these are finally adapted and you know none of this is actually cast in concrete for decades either so um if we could I would like to get um a motion to uh approve um or yeah the to approve the or consider I guess I should say um the resolution and after that maybe a second so I see Mark no move second second um from Robert um any discussion has everybody read the resolution so what I'd like to do then um not seeing any comment is um take a vote so um all of those in favor of approving the resolution um as it is written um please raise your

126hand and say I I I I all those opposed so I see it's I is it Julian do you oppose the U the resolution I abstained John okay you abstained John okay Julian I I I saw your hand up go late I don't know if there was a delay I approved you approved okay okay okay good so we have um one exstension and um everyone else um that's um present approved the resolution it therefore passes so thank you very much for everyone's comments on that um the next topic on the agenda is draft criteria and principles for achieving renewable energy goals and I think Missy you're going to present that as well right we just did that okay we did that together there's separate there two separate points I guess um so the next point

127then is um there are five proposals um of work that um energy commission and our commissioners can work on and were included on legistar and Missy I'm wondering if um you could bring those up um we don't have a resolution or anything but um um I think it would be great to cover these briefly um this is sort of the meet of the rest of the meeting um so I think we have a few minutes to do this um and I might just add that um you know in in the wake of some of the the meetings that we had um after meetings resumed um sort of um late summer early fall um with the action item tracker there was a lot of discussion about um what the commission could work on and there were

128some also some sideline um discussions between um carlen and me and Missy and OSI staff and um so there are some things that are still going and some of them overlap with this but these are proposals from OSI on projects um where OSI sees um an opportunity for um the commission and our commissioners and that's outlined here in terms of like number of Commissioners and stuff um that's that we'll see further down um but miss you want to take the lead on these and maybe um so maybe maybe we try to do the same thing here for um expediency sake as you go through all five people make notes um and then we come back to those and ask questions um and um hopefully get answers then and um then move on from there and

129or maybe open things up for discussion on on how we go from there um so why don't you take it away Missy great thanks thanks John uh so SEF as commissioner mki or chair mki mentioned uh stepped back and said where do we really want help how can we be super uh productive with the commission use your expertise and your time as wisely as possible and get really demonstrable progress on core areas in a20 and so we came up with five ideas of things that we are actively working on where we would love a assistance should Commissioners be interested um all of these are with other partners too but we laser focused on the ask for the commission here so if this any of these are of interest to you there will be other stakeholders

130who will join this work and I can talk about that in a separate space um if you're interested in these we can we would like you to help us you know also recruit other people into the conversation so the five ideas everything is framed the exact same way um a very quick purpose um how many commissioners that we're hoping to work with and again plus other folks what's the time frame for the commitment so is it a whole year is it a two month like this is a rapid kind of thing we need to move on um this particular one is going to take six and more months um what are the desired outcomes or outputs that we're hoping to achieve together and any other considerations to put forward so the first is the beginning

131of our beneficial electrification strategy I'm sure some of you already have thoughts on this uh you'll notice we identify range uh we're starting with range electrification I am happy to take all of your feedback on this I will say we landed on this with the Rocky Mountain Institute um based on a whole bunch of their guidance and feedback and some work we've been doing we can get wins fast this is on the market um there are things to do we also want to launch a sticker campaign uh that will go on uh water heaters and furnaces that helps get people prepared to Electrify since those are things that tend to go fast and you need to move fast so how do we get them to build a Str strategy to make those kinds of transitions

132so here we're looking for up to three Commissioners uh to join us in this campaign we've got to we've got to work through a lot of things you'll see here this is six plus months um we are going to need to do some background research we've started compiling information but what would a range replacement campaign look like how are we going to work with the box stores how are we engaging with the contractors uh who are we going to start for targeting who are we going to reach what are key messages um so you've got Behavioral Science pretty heavy in here as well as some um general research around effective uh programs the I just want to frame this here um we chose stove tops again because work with RMI and also because of the

133public health impacts of ranges um you are combusting on site and air quality is tragic in many many homes because we're not properly venting and so this is not just a greenhouse gas strategy this is also a public health and safety uh decision to move forward in this in this way so that's one the second we already have um a group that's working on this but we do want to kind of open it back up the electric vehicle strategy uh hopefully the ordinance moves but we have to not only develop and refine the full strategy we need help prioritizing the actions that are in there to help build the sequence of what comes first and how um and I think the subcommittee is already working with simy on this but we do want to open

134it up from folks and we put a hard timeline we actually want this done um as soon as we initiate it within three months so this is a little more intense of an Ask um and is a really big ask but is also a really really exciting ask because the ecosystem around Eves is is really uh charging up so that feels great uh the next one is our energy concierge this is also in a20 there has been some really great historical work in particular looking at Boulder and the program that they have but here we really really need to start making some decisions um about how this program is going to be operated um these are going to be hard decisions to really think through is this something a government should do is this something

135a nonprofit in our community should do does that nonprofit exist do we need to support standing up something else how is something like that maintained um potentially if we have a structure in place how are we feeding information in uh so there's a a lot here as well this is an important ask uh we have two Commissioners and I think I'm happy to blow that one out of the water and say we could take all of you if you wanted it this is so important um but this is so important that it's a big ask for folks and we really want this resolved um by the beginning of quarter three so we're we're basically what five months um from now so this isn't a small ask but we know this is really important for our

136a20 goals to have some infrastructure in place so we'd like to really understand uh what makes the most sense and then figure out how to operationalize that um and again we have a lot of basine uh research really good research to build on this is one that um I'm leading which I'm super stoked about uh I think we need to do an energy education uh series and this is a year-long initiative I've already reached out to the state uh to ask if they'd partner with us on on or partner with us on this the idea here is um taking up to four energy Commissioners and uh some of you as Commissioners and possibly a handful of you in your professional space uh to build a ser of uh educational curriculum from an energy 101 uh

137to I would say what Chuck was giving us was more of like a 301 um but how do we kind of build the series so people understand how our grid Works um what opportunities there are available to them it's kind of at your own pace you could go through this virtual series but I would love to work with folks to develop the curriculum uh and to actually administer it to identify our speakers to do recordings of them and it needs to work certainly in an arbor but throughout the region um and I would argue throughout the state because the system um is is relative I me there's nuance and so we can have specialized modules but this is something that if we did with the state would have to be something that was capable of

138being shared um GLA would be a phenomenal partner but we need to have not just industry not just Advocates and candidly not all white males um talking about this we need to diversify the voices we need to make sure that this is trusted um you know so people see themselves in this space and really can uh have confidence in the information that's being delivered so I'm really excited about this um and I've been through a number of really intense boot camps around energy infrastructure and I just want to bring that to the public because this landscape is complex and we're going to be doing a lot of very complicated things in it and then the uh last one is a low to moderate income solar working group so we have certainly been working with partners

139that many of you if this like triggers something in your mind um chances are we're working with partners that you're thinking about uh we've been talking about this with some stakeholders for a while how are we really growing in our area in the county and especially in the city how are we providing more and more opportunities for load of moderate income folks to access renewable energy um not just for the greenhouse gas benefits but for the monetary benefits that can also come from that technology um so we have some options we've been exploring like rental programs panel reuse because most animals the panels still have a useful life um once they're they're retired so how do we keep them uh in the system how do we do panel recycling how do we fund this um

140there's a there's a whole bunch that's here and I I'll name like Rob rapson is someone that we're thinking and working with um he's already agreed to join us in this work group so we're looking for two Commissioners who can dedicate some pretty serious time intensely actually over the next three months um because we hope to have something we can pitch in a three-month period and then the following 3 months you see 3 to six would be more around engagement uh with stakeholders so those are just five very concrete ideas of things that we're working on where we would love to have the expertise of the energy commission to help us craft these programs work through the nuance and get ready to launch something what's up there thank you very much I'd like to open

141things up for questions or comments and you're again I can't see all of you so just unmute your mic phone okay there we go thank you missy John on the EV strategy it should be EV and alternate fuel strategy because we're going to see hydrogen fuel cells popping up really quickly here that are going to be important and changing um commissioner beber I think you wanted to say something yeah I was wondering um it seems like you want to move some of these pretty quickly but what's the time frame I'm getting back to you on this and then very concrete question so did you say that this document is on legis I where I accessed it from legister I don't know why but I'm not seeing it here um if you link if okay yeah

142you don't see it as a separate document it's linked in the agenda I I had that same problem this after go to the agenda yeah and then click on the link and then you'll find the documents that we've been talking about yeah I had the same problem initially sorry about that okay I don't know Missy or Josh if he's still listening in um I think some people just go to um details and then they click and they look for all the documents and some of the documents were not available that way they were only available via Link in the in the agenda can do it both ways yeah I'll share I'll share that feedback I off at this point um in terms of time frame one we don't anticipate anyone has had a chance to

143read these we also finish them Friday afternoon so they I would say if we could maybe take two weeks we'll send a reminder out and if we could have folks kind of pick um maybe rank order their top one or two that they want to engage with um that way then we can distribute amongst folks there also is no expectation that everyone wants to be on one of these you may not have the time the interest the capacity so please don't feel obligated but we did want to put the call out so I I don't want you to be shamed into raising your hand so I I would ask for for those that are interested I'll get to you in a second um council member Briggs that you send an email to um Missy and

144Josh and copy also carlen and me that way we're all in the loop and that way someone doesn't also get missed um commissioner I mean council member Briggs yeah I was just um hoping that you might to expand a little bit on what you meant by the energy coner sort of program yeah this one is an a20 and it is a kind of One-Stop shop for residents businesses to be able um I sometimes call it the bat phone like how do you pick up the bat phone and get on the line with someone who can help you understand what opportunities are out there so your uh your home isn't comfortable right now like I'm freezing I will tell you the truth I have wool socks on I'm sitting in a blanket I have no in

145my office help me uh can I call the concierge and they'll tell me you should really think about air sailing like here's a rebate program and they'll help you kind of navigate that or if you want to go solar they can help tell you about Michigan saves and the financing so someone that can kind of bring you in and help you through the really complicated energy World um and I don't know actually John I'll kick it to you if you want to add anything because you've thought a lot about this too yeah I mean think of uh you know a hotel coners you know um you you get an energy audit done and the energy audit says you can do a whole handful of things there may be some some rough ranking um and you

146just don't know where to go I mean what what what do I do first and um who are you know who are contractors um um where those contractors certified and bu what groups um so it's someone that you can go to that doesn't necessarily have um a financial in incentive in in the answer that they give you um that's basically what we're looking at and frankly this is really important because it enables many many strategies and actions in the plan um you have to remember most of us um are lay people um when it comes to the one or the other subject related to energy I I just want to throw in one other thing um Missy talked about diversity we've got um two youth Commissioners and you know we it'd be great if you'd

147be willing to do work on some of these things um you know some several people signed up for um what we had in the action item tractor was um things related to um public engagement and education here's an opportunity so um we're not looking for a show of hands here tonight but uh keep that in mind when you look at these opportunities harleen if uh if any of us are interested in if not participating in a group because we don't have time because we have we're participating in another group will there be um access to like what's status what's going on with each particular project and um an opportunity for for those of us to just provide ideas or resources or references yeah I anticipate we'll be giving monthly updates on how this work is

148progressing and opportunities for feedback and code development and then if products come out of the group you uh forgive me I know I'm not sharing my screen but some of them have very concrete products others have more like marketing kind of materials uh really concrete products I anticipate we would bring to the commission for discussion before we went to council then to launch something new do these become subcommittees John well there there each one of these is effectively an ad hoc U working group um as Missy indicated with Commissioners and and other people from the community if you look at these topics it shouldn't be just Commissioners that are represented in in these groups so strictly speaking they're not uh as I understand it Missy um working groups of the energy commission they are more

149um ad hoc teams that are working on these topics with Commissioners um being a part of that that uh collaborative effort that sound right I I think that's right to start I think we may discover that some of them become formal committees as they they're work kind of grows and evolves um this is really a an opportunity and almost kind of a a request leveraging the expertise that you all hold as Commissioners and based on some previous conversations of how do we really leverage that expertise and the unique advantage that you have to keep building and moving the work forward so it's it's sort of tan it's related it's kind of tangential though um sorry I'm losing my words I think one one thing that thinking about the past conversation and thinking of speed this

150is one of the things that we're trying to do here is drive with speed and not have an energy commission working group that meets once a month for the next 18 months to come up with something but as Missy said in several of these cases how can we really pull together a group that's going to work intensively on this so we have an output in three months six months whatever the case may be okay so um we all have our homework look at the and send your names in if you're willing and able um if that's it then I'd like to move to committee updates and I don't know actually we're gonna have to maybe think by the way carlen um and I along with Missy and Josh um um are meeting uh about 10

151days before every meeting and working on agendas and so we will work to continue to try to uh keep the agendas focused and also string topics together that are related um this next section I think we're going to have to figure out um whether or not we go through each one of these groups because I'm not sure each one of these working groups quote unquote as such is is um functioning but we'll go through the list is there anybody from the Renewables group um that has anything to report on is that group meeting silence is golden in this case we'll move on to the next topic building in the built environment anything going on there right now community outreach Transportation electrification harleen you want to give us a brief update I think we talked about

152a lot of things but I am simply going to reiterate what Missy already included in her report at the beginning of our meeting that in the one week one week from tonight the um city council will have the opportunity to hear arguments um you know from the community in favor of um and any other arguments with regards to the electric vehicle Readiness ordinance any of you who are interested in participating in the public hearing it is open to anyone there are no restrictions on number of people who can participate you all have uh three minutes each um it's like the um the introductory uh Public public input and that we have for our meetings at the beginning at the end of our meetings and um it's this is really important there's been a lot of

153work a lot of thorough thorough work that's gone into this ordinance um it's it's uh it's something that is a really significant result that we can deliver and um I hope that all of you if you don't have the opportunity to participate live you can always send um an email to city council and they do read emails so that's my update for tonight thank you um so the last is a report from the environmental commission very briefly it was a working session um so they just reviewed um the different working groups their purposes and structures their accomplishments we' talked about 2021 goals and um we reviewed a draft of an annual report that is going to be going to City Council in the bylaws of the environmental commission there's a requirement for an annual report

154that we don't have maybe something to think about um at some point in time or whether we do that jointly for example with OSI um on the a20 plan um so that closes out all of um those reports those committee updates and I'd like to then open things up again for public input and while um everyone is um getting ready to do that that might want to I'll just read this again this is an opportunity for people to speak for up to three minutes um if you're on CTN you need to call 0099 or 877 5247 enter the meeting ID 5783 4 502 um this information is also on the agenda in the video feed um staff will select callers that have raise their hands one by one using the last three digits of your

155phone number and to raise your hand please PR star9 on your phone and you're going to hear an automated announcement um when speaking um please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments Missy do we have anybody yet not yet okay I'm just going to keep on going just to keep the evening short so if we get someone you let me know um the next point on the agenda is items for the next agenda and I'm just going to mention a couple things um that are already in the queue some from tonight and some from earlier so first of all um we've agreed that um on the agenda next meeting there's going to be a presentation from a local group um called an Arbor Public Power it's a group that is um

156advocating um that um an arbor consider municipalization a municipal utility um and they've indicated that the presentation um is going to be roughly 20 minutes but I anticipate some interesting Q&A and discussion after that um and so um I'd like to also mention we talked about the state energy code and the status on that and um the ban on natural gas maybe that's something that we can look at these are things that we'll discuss as I mentioned um when we set the agenda and then maybe an update on the 10,000 trees so I want to make sure that you realize we captured all those what did we miss what else would you like to have discussed I guess the meeting is getting longer than everybody wants to be so um what uh Missy did we

157get any phone calls now okay I would just assume that there would be an update on uh moving forward with the um the strategies the pro proposed strategies that we're looking at yes commissioner commissioner input maybe on on those five projects is that what you're talking about okay good yes and chair mki one other thing just to kind of add from the staff perspective is we uh we talked about having kind of an an ed energy educational series that we have one presentation that would go through what we're thinking about in the energy strategy so what is a virtual power purchase agreement what is municipalization what is CCA and so ex thank you missy there's um um a a contact that I have that's um very well versed um in um utilities and utility regulation

158and I'm trying to get that individual to make a presentation um we've talked about the past possibility of potentially in in this series so to speak that Missy talked about that we might get um DTE to present um so obviously there's a lot of um overlapping issues in this whole Space of um how we um procure um our energy um and so there's a possibility of a whole series um that I think uh would be helpful to educate Us in the community and Council okay are we ready for adjournment okay so um thank you very much um everyone tonight for your time and um we look forward to some great meetings uh it's now um 8:18 and uh this meeting is adjourned thanks everybody thanks