Ann Arbor Planning Commission 12/1/20

001e e e welcome to the Tuesday December 1st 2020 meeting of the Ann Arbor Planning Commission this meeting is being held electronically to protect public health and safety due to the covid-19 virus and to comply with orders issued by the governor the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services Andor the Washington County Health Department we intend to conduct this meeting similarly to an in-person meeting however please be patient if there are technical issues public comment will be via telephone only to speak during any of the public comment opportunities please call 877- 85352 47 or another or any of the other published numbers and enter meeting ID 2176 this information is also available on the published agenda in the public Noti section of the city website and on the broadcast of this meeting on CTN Channel

002161 AT&T channel 99 and online at a2gov.org CN where you can select the government Channel item number two is a roll call commissioner Mills here commissioner milin here commissioner Gib Randall commissioner sov here commissioner abens here commissioner hemers Schmid here commissioner dish here um we do have a quorum but I would note for the commission and petitioners that um due to uh the one absence we have to uh an affirmative recomendation on any land use petition would require unanimous support of all six Commissioners present this evening thank you very much item three is introductions are there any tonight Mr Leonard no there're not all right then we'll go to item four which is approval of the agenda can I have a motion to move the approve the agenda moved by commissioner milstein seconded by commissioner

003AB is there any discussion of the motion Mr Leonard yeah my apology because of the holiday we got the minutes uh draft minutes out to you quite late I would propose we remove the minutes from the agenda this evening so you as the Commissioners have time to review those adequately before consideration all right friendly amendments very good any other discussion of the agenda um to all those in favor of the agenda as amended please say I or raise your hand yes any opposed no one so uh that motion carries um so we'll skip over the motion uh the minutes of the previous meeting and go on to item six which is reports from City Administration City Council planning manager Planning Commission officers and committees and written Communications council member dish do you have a report

004unless Mr Leonard wants to correct me I think that I don't because Council didn't meet last night excellent ah yes because this is the first Tuesday of the month it has not yet been the first Monday exactly all right um Mr Leonard yeah um I do have uh a couple items that I want to touch on one um a little bit longer than usual um I shared with you uh earlier this after earlier this evening a draft of um a propos communication that I would uh I will be asking for the planning commission's consideration of at your following meeting on December 15th um in response to the city council direction to look at site plan review thresholds for small and modest projects and so I just wanted to um I think that most of this

005should be at this point pretty familiar but I wanted to publicly present it to you and um um so you have it have it in the hands the public has that information available as well I've also shared it with the stakeholder advisory committee as well and again all leading towards your consideration of to say your next meeting and communication of your intentions as the Planning Commission to undertake these proposed changes um that relate to the UDC particularly in the coming year um so um the the communication will include some other background that is responsive to the original direction from the city council resolution as to some of the overall volume and history of site plans over the past years here in the city um a couple of highlighted comparison communities um by no means is

006it um communication a comprehensive comparison of other ordinances but rather a couple of highlighted provisions of other um Michigan communities um where they approach things in a slightly different manner that could be considered as models and so but the meat of the the recommendations and the communication are what proposed changes to our ordinance would should be considered for small and modest site plan projects and so I just want to um um um present those um again you've seen versions of these at the working session at the orc my intention is to start finalizing the format and content of these as a communication to city council later this month um first is uh to explore the expansion of development activity that might be exempt from site plan review altogether um including specifically outdoor patios and plazas

007uh potentially evaluate a size of floor area expansion uh that could be considered without site plan review at all and evaluate the expansion of one and two family dwelling uh exemption for up to six residential dwelling units as an exemption um there are a series of amendments to our site plan review requirements that um the communication and you would be undertaking um consider the removal of Planning Commission uh approval requirement of administr currently administrative approval level changes when a P site plan is no longer on file it would eliminate that provision of the ordinance uh create a true um site plan modification or amendment process really at this stage our ordinance only allows approval of site plans that you can approve them at different levels but provide a true mechanism where of a project that

008is under construction or recently been approved has a way to make uh minor changes without a full site plan submission and re supplanting an original site plan um consider a sketch plan or other uh type of instrument that would enable smaller Pro projects to submit for review and approval without the same level of detail as larger projects and consider the creation of an expedited site plan review process akin to the building department expedited permitting process as an example what opportunities are might there be for us to identify projects appropriate for that process and then um explore Amendments of our development standards that we measure site plans against when we are considering them specifically consider a scalable approach of the Landscaping screening requirements for example apply standards to an area of disturbance rather than the whole

009site when a site is being modified incrementally and specifically consider Amendment to the conflicting land use buffer requirements to remove the requirement for like uses and then the the communication also recommends two other um recommendations for consideration that might um that might and definitely go above and beyond the original intent of the resolution one is the consideration of Planning Commission approval of all by right site plans um site plan review is an administrative function and by doing this would enable both the Planning Commission and the city council particularly to focus more on legislative and actions that um would govern future plans considered by any level of authority in the future and then um I put that the uh advisory work group was unequivocal in the impact of City infrastructure requirements on private development and how

010those policy and requirement decisions can drive a lack of affordability it can impact um design aspects and other amenities of projects such as sustainability or or frankly at times just the quality of design and materials and um at worst those requirements can uh make smaller to modest projects uh no longer viable and larger projects um difficult or challenging or sometimes not viable themselves um then the last piece of the resolution was a um how can we communicate better um there I'm interested and I think it resonated with my conversations with the Planning Commission today to seek a table format something that is a more intuitive way that describes the type of development that a property owner is considering and a clear deline a of what typee of instrument is required for that review process and

011who makes the decision on that rather than trying to navigate on numerous pages of text backwards to arrive at that similar conclusion um so um this uh like I said I've shared this full draft communication with you earlier this evening um it will be appended to this packet available to the public over the coming weeks um I certainly welcome any feedback or changes you have over that time period and again we'll be asking for um any additional modifications or edits and hopefully approval at the next Planning Commission meeting um so that just under the wire um we can communicate the status update by the end of the calendar year to the city council of your intentions to undertake um which changes in response to that resolution um and then um for the working session uh

012scheduled for next week um no specific petitions uh scheduled but I intend to um uh uh spend some time with you as the commission to um formulate how we want to conduct a webinar or other community engagement mechanism in early 2021 regarding accessory dwelling unit um ordinance revisions um at this time I am uh envisioning that we um perhaps schedule a webinar for a January February time frame working session where we would present some of the goals that originally considered in the previous accessory dwelling unit ordinances that were crafted and proferred to the city council um provides opportunity for public feedback and then um from that give you as the Planning Commission the opportunity to take whatever follow-up steps in Direction you would like to on a reconsideration of those changes that were previously proper

013so and with that I am done thank you very much and I just want to make sure that I heard this right if typically there's not Communications like the one that we have back to council and so if there are things comments that we have it's Pro and to expedite things before voting on this next in two weeks yep if there are any changes send them to you ahead of time so you can collate them and we can discuss that AB yep and we could also consider modifications at that meeting but certainly if you have anything advance in advance I can reflect that in the draft as well okay thank you very much Mr Leonard are there are there any commissioner officers or committee Liaisons that have anything to report orc met uh two days

014before Thanksgiving but it was with that stakeholder advisory committee to discuss this so very good um now we are on to I would also say that this is the section for written Communications and there were some in our packet so uh draw your attention to that and let people know who sent in comments that we did receive many um next is audience participation this is an opportunity for persons to speak for up to three minutes about an i an issue that is not listed as a public hearing on this agenda so not the 907 um and 93 to 9913 South State Street uh or South Maine sorry not State South Main Street or the Ann Arbor moving together Transportation plan um items those will separate public hearings to comment on any other matters please call

015877- 85352 47 and enter meeting ID 2176 City staff will select callers that have raised their hand you do that by pressing star n on your phone Mr Leonard will call on You by the last three digits of your telephone number um and ask you to unmute yourself you might have to press star six to do that um please when it's your turn to speak move to a quiet area and mute any television or background sounds so that we can hear you clearly and please also state your name and address for the record if there I see some callers on the line if you'd like to speak to an item that's not on this agenda again you indicate that by pressing star nine on your phone seeing no takers I will move on to item

016number eight which is public hearings for the next business meeting for the December 15 2020 meeting we will have uh several new uh public hearing items um one is the Lewis Jewelers retail Plaza site plan for city council approval and special exception use for Planning Commission approval this is for 300 South Maple a approximate 2 Acre Site Zone C3 plans include demolishing the previous restaurant building and constructing a new 24,000 foot retail building um with a special exception use request for an Associated drive through facility uh the next public hearing is 416 West hon parking lot improvements for Planning Commission approval this is a proposal to reconstruct the existing parking lot add storm drain storm water controls and Landscaping the presence of the Allen Creek drain easement on parking space count will decrease from 90

0176 to 72 spaces for new bicycle spaces are proposed on this point Acre Site Zone D2 um there will be a requested um uh variance associated with that as well to um for uh conflicts with that easement and Street trees and then the third item is St Francis of the CC 2150 freeze Avenue for Planning Commission approval this is the a proposal to construct a two-story 14,500 ft Parish addition on a 10.68 site Zone r1b um for church uses and uh the corresponding expansion of that church use requires expansion of the special exception use uh corresponding to that permit as well very good um next is item 9A which is our regular business and this is the Maine and Davis apartments which are at 907 and 9913 South Main Street this is a site plan

018for City Council approval um per our usual uh order we'll start with a petitioner presentation for up to 10 minutes and then have the staff presentation and then open up the public hearing before the Planning Commission discusses the item so looks like the development team is coming in and Mr Chang development team you can put your cameras on if you'd like and uh Chris who was uh present going to be presenting the PowerPoint on behalf of the development team you're muted yes I believe s is gonna start with the presentation then his team will continue with the remainder of the presentation okay um hold on let me give you permission to share your screen okay I was going to say you them or me satch would you like to run that yourself or would you

019like Chris to run that uh I'm happy to run it Chris if that's okay with you that's perfectly fine now Patrick are you on I'm not seeing there one of the person that we need I don't see him is it Patrick clear yes yes I think he's in The Ether he is all right uh you should be all set to share your screen uh when you get started you'll have up to 10 minutes to uh present your project okay me are you able to see the screen I'm not sure if you're seeing are you able to see the screen now can can I am I in now yeah okay sorry about that had a little technical issue no problem we still don't see your shared screen though just so you know oh you don't nope

020how do I um oh share screen I didn't press the appropriate button are you able to see it now yep you're scen yep all right go ahead okay great um thank you very much for taking the time to look at our project uh and I also want to extend my special gratitude to Chris Chang and the rest of the team uh for what has been uh I think about a year and a half maybe even two years since we've been working on this initially um the opportunity that we see um and and and the need for um trying to build this uh apartment building is really I there's been a significant growth in the number of students at the University of Michigan um you know I think so I've heard numbers something like about an

021increase in 10,000 students over the last 15 years and certainly since I've graduated which was uh in 1989 N I think the growth has been substantially more than that um I don't believe that the housing has kept up uh with the increasing uh student population so our target market and the target market and also the intent of the uh student housing facility that we're we're seeking to build is to really house students and provide we believe is a very competitive product uh for the university community uh the proposed site um is located at 907 and 913 South Main Street those are just between um Davis and ho streets and I think there's a large development going on in the near proximity of that as well um so you know the the property itself has about

022105 foot Frontage along South Main which is um you know probably one of the main arteries along with South State and so on that is for people traveling in and out of an arbor um to the best of our knowledge uh I believe the units uh or the houses and apartment buildings around this particular property are primarily rentals and I expect probably mostly uh student rentals um and that that's my understanding um um and as I noted you know I think we're trying to provide a very competitive product um and also one that is sustainable um and provides some features that I think will be enjoyable by students and if not students certainly they're parents um you know we have we're seeking to provide you know Superior fire suppression fire protection which we'll get into

023in more detail we're equipping equipping the building with solar panels um that will provide roughly uh half of the anticipated consumption of power in the building um the other thing that we're seeking to do is is to provide enhanced active open space and the way we're doing that is is through uh uh having most of the parking available in the building be under the building which I think will help um and um you know the other the other aspect of it and we work with transportation to have this is to have a circular driveway in front of the building that would be separated apart from the main entrance to the garage and what that additional circular driveway does is it provides uh e of you and encourages ride sharing or car sharing type facilities as

024well as increasing demand for deliveries right whether it's Amazon deliveries or UPS trucks or food deliveries groceries deliveries and the like you know we we spent a lot of time making sure that we would have a very easy access to that um the other thing I would just like to highlight before I turn this over to the team is you know I think as part of the development process we're agreeing to replace the water M uh along or at least between Hoover and Davis which is I think about 200 feet along the run which I believe will be a significant cost savings to the city and of course I think the completion of the development of this property will substantially increase the tax revenues for the city um the property itself will be managed professionally

025we're in dialogue with Oxford but you know I can't make that specific commitment right now but I expect that it will be Oxford though will be managing the property and you know I think they have a fairly good reputation for um maintaining the prop you know maintaining the properties in the areas in good uh good standing um the team that I'm working with uh is a season team uh rather than take the time right now to go over the specific details I'm going to just introduce this to Kevin BR Kevin Brandon who's been the main architect on the project and Patrick cley with boss engineering um they both have you know dozens of years of experience uh but with that I'm going to turn this over to Kevin thanks s um you just want to

026reiterate um sash's comment about working with staff they've been uh uh you know really good to work with it's been uh a long road here but uh you know it's uh definitely you have some good people working there in your departments um so basically um the design philosophy you know when we looked at this building I think one thing we wanted to do was uh provide a you know modern you know minimalist type project minimalist Simplicity um you know by using clean lines high quality materials you know our goal is to provide the students the renters uh uh the the occupants a space for peace and focus to uh you know concentrate their school work and their you know activities after school and you know other than that um we have uh also provided in

027the Living Spaces uh you know a lot of glass for natural light and ventilation um so hopefully and I think um Chris correct me if I'm wrong I I think the the commission has our our submittal um so they could see on sheet a400 uh some of the renderings and also you know some of the floor planes as well um yes they had links okay yes okay great um and some of the Interior features each bedroom there's 3 36 bedrooms and each bedroom has an their own connected bathroom um we've designed a living level to uh be centrally located vertically so the entries are um between two sleeping levels so there's not a um situation where there's um uh students uh going multiple stories to get to the kitchen area that's except for units three

028and six we only there're only two levels anyway um we've provided some exterior decks which I feel at uh you know the size of them we've have we have one at 330 square feet and one at approximately 567 square feet we actually that one is uh a roof a low roof that we've had we've created a roof deck I feel these spaces are great spaces for uh connectivity for the students and social interaction um in the you know for um times when they're when they're not you know um studying so it's actually great study spaces too so um as far as some of the safety Fe convenience features again s talked about fire safety we've upgraded from a residential sprinkler system to a commercial uh sprinkler system from an NFPA 13r to a uh NFPA

02913 so what this does is it not only provide life safety for the building but also building protection so um it's it's intended to put the fire out we've also worked with the fire uh Marshall and we've uh put in uh two roof uh ladders per his Direction um and all dwelling units uh enter uh in egress from directly to the exterior so um there's no internal hallways in this building um as far as the under building parking which s mentioned uh we do have majority of our spaces we have seven of the nine uh parking space of the required parking spaces under the building it's a secured parking area uh and all seven spaces will be leveled to ev1 or evi so installed spaces for the new ordinance that the city's uh uh looking

030to enact um as far as uh secured bike parking we have eight for the required one that we have and we're looking to add two to three more so we could have eight to 8 to 11 space uh bike parking racks uh in the building all the trash as well for convenience to the the uh the student renters is uh interior to the building so there's no exterior trash and um Mr Chad's management company will uh be responsible putting out the trash and also taking it in uh about one more minute okay oh well at that point I guess I'll I'll get uh you know we'll be available for questions so maybe I'll hand this over to Patrick clear uh to handle some of the site issues yeah why don't you just uh I just

031have maybe like three or four points here with time being short s if you want to skip to the existing conditions slide uh just wanted to the the green highlights are the larger walnut trees that we were trying to work around and the red are the existing parking lots for the homes that are like a hard pack gravel uh that um I just wanted to highlight and then if you skip to the landscape plan the green uh shaded area that most of that parking lot area is going to be converted into Lawn and landscape and you can still see those trees there um and then uh just briefly on the left-and side there's some red Dash lines that just wanted to highlight the the overhead and buried utility lines that preclude the street tree planting

032and then skipping to the site utility plan just has some highlights on the storm water water system it's a two-tiered system because of the slopy nature of the site where we are taking the the driveway water going into a sistern pumping that into the conventional storm water detention system that that takes in the the roof and the front yard and then have a controlled discharge to the the storm water uh storm sewer system and just the point there is that right now all the water goes from left right west to east uncontrolled primarily going to Brown Street and with this it will be much more controlled and uh much better for the surrounding properties up I think that's about what I needed to highlight so yeah we need more than 10 minutes I think thank

033you much for that what if we have questions I'm sure we'll be calling on you uh during the discussion um Mr Mr chain do you have any slides to share I don't have any slides but I'm going to touch on some items since they were cut short on time I think that might be a little helpful for background information uh this site also has a conflicting land use buffer around the perimeter so there is Landscaping uh screening from the adjacent residential this site both sites will need to be combined to meet the minimum lot size so that'll be part of uh the approval process um there is a landmark tree that is proposed to be removed which is on the western side of the site and that is to accommodate the proposed kind of a

034U-shaped Drive uh that was coordinated between solid waste the urban Forester and transportation because it just wasn't going to work to be backing out onto South Main Street uh with the traffic levels so there was a casualty of the tree there is mitigation for the tree um as far as Street trees uh we also discussed getting a landscape modification for this site because of the utilities in the street um and it just wasn't going to work to put in the street trees there it didn't qualify for a landscape modification so again as part of the approval it will need to go to the zoning board of appeals to reduce the two Street trees again it's supported by the urban Forester um due to the location of utilities and and uh sight lines um I'd also

035say that I did I think there anticipating questions about possibly the layout of the proposed uh building I did talk with the building department briefly today regarding the site layout if this was going to get carved up into possibly doubling the number of units from six to 12 it would require a firewall to be installed to separate the units so that's one aspect that it would be caught during either the building plan review or during a housing rental inspection if they had and indeed put up firewalls to meet code we would also put put stipulations on building permits uh housing uh reviews uh when they go out to to rent and we can even add items in the site development agreement that this is only a six-unit um uh uh complex and finally I also

036because we just found out we only have six members for the meeting tonight uh the petitioner if this starts to look like there might be a you know support for postponement or he's not going to get uh you know all six votes in affirmative that he would like to propose for a postponement for a later dat so I'm just disclosing that at this time and I'm here to answer any questions you may have thank you very much Mr Chang um all right this is now the public hearing for this item um this is an opportunity for persons to speak for up to three minutes about the proposed Main and Davis apartments development public comment may be made by calling 877 853 5247 and then entering meeting ID 9751 994 2176 City staff will select callers

037that have digitally raised their hand by pressing star nine you'll be called on by the last three digits of your telephone number you'll probably get an automated response that you have been unmuted you might still need to press star six to speak um please when speaking move to a quiet area and mute any television or background noise noise so that we can hear you and please do state your name and address for the record at the beginning of your comments I do see a couple callers on the line one with their hands up uh the first caller we have is a phone number ending with 864 caller with the phone number ending with 864 you have three minutes to address the Planning Commission hello hello I'm not sure if you're talking to or not my

038name is Dennis Gayla yeah go ahead you have three minutes to address the Planning Commission I didn't know if I was going to get on or not I couldn't quite figure out how to do this um I own the property directly next door on the corner of Davis and Main Street the green and yellow house I am extremely concerned about the amount of people that are going to be living in uh this building uh with a potential of probably 70 people living inside the the building and I just heard um Chris say something about it may be going to 12 units I this is the first I've heard about that um I'm concerned about parking it does not fit into the the neighborhood whatsoever um I did send an email in in response to an

039email I got from Mia and and um I um I built my house in' 04 finished in ' 04 and I built the house to fit into the neighborhood I did the very best that I could so that it would fit into the neighborhood this building that is proposed does not fit into the neighborhood at all period I'm very concerned again about the parking situation um I just heard someone say there were seven underground parking spaces but I didn't hear about the other parking spaces that are not underground um I would think that you would need to have at least one parking space um uh per bedroom that's my opinion at least that many and um again I don't think it fits in it's I think it's too m massive um and I'm not happy

040with it period um I guess that's all I have to say I I don't want to keep rambling on here but I'm not happy about it thank you um okay so do I I unmute now uh I think that you'll be muted and kind of moved out of the speaking area and just to highlight that um Mr Gayla we did rece receive your Communication in our packet there are a couple other callers online to raise your hand at Star n caller with the phone number ending with the number 750 caller with the phone number ending with 750 you can unmute yourself with star six and you have three minutes to address the Planning Commission hello this is Julie Weatherby and um I think most of you know me uh I live at 837 South Main

041so next to Denny's house um who just spoke and we also own 108 East Davis which is the house that is um this new proposed development would be in the backyard of uh of that house so that house is currently rented to a a professor and um his wife was a researcher a medical researcher and you know I think the people the people who live in Denny's house are also not uh undergraduate students so that is one thing just to be aware um if this does end up being all students there's plenty of people around who can keep an eye on them for Better or For Worse for your project um but uh I just wanted to make a couple comments and I know you got my my um email but I wanted to say

042first this developer has been very approachable and pleasant to communicate with which I appreciate it's been very quick to respond to any questions um I know that our forese zoning regulations will limit what's on this site and the way it's presented so that's um it is what it is uh we need to look at those more which you also know um so I had some concerns so the storm water and I think that's been answered as I said the developer since I sent this letter has um we've communicated and and some of these issues have been have been answered which is as much as they can um storm water has been a concern and I think they're doing what what is possible there is a shared retaining wall um the land the property be markers

043in this neighborhood are sort of uh suggestions and they don't necessarily follow what you would expect so um their retaining wall appears like it's in our yard but it is actually offset so I think at this point what we're going to do or they're going to do is um keep the retaining wall keep everything as is but it will become an issue if we need to put up a wall or something because it offsets a few feet which is an interesting interesting uh addition to the the how it's set up um sensing trees and buffers are a concern we do have a very big um we're going to looks like we're going to keep that so that's great lighting seems to be good sustainability open space parking and density it is what it is our

044forc is is that regulation the property owner is going to have to deal with the parking um there isn't more space and that's okay that it doesn't get covered with parking for me so we have some concerns but the owner has been good to work with and I just wanted to say I I don't object to this um is it what I do preferentially probably not but it is within the regulations thank you thank you caller with the phone number ending with the numbers 409 caller with the number ending 409 you have three minutes to address the Planning Commission hi Planning Commission now my name is Chris Vel the address I guess one 24 West Summit would be the best one um but I am calling in um in support of this project it's I

045actually assisted them with the assemblage of the two property so I I have kind of been observing I don't have any other Financial interests going forward with it but it's certainly something I've kept a close eye on in the two years since they have been kind of undertaking this entire ordeal but um you know it's it's it's it's a very good project it takes two properties that are are you know in kind of rough shape there's the sites themselves are in pretty rough shape and it's taking those entire sites and it is doing quite a bit of work to clean them up and just in in terms of you know drainage and and a few other things that really cleans up the entire area um you know it's the the project it will be nice

046in the future in my opinion that stretch of Main Street I think is a little bit dark at times a little bit little be nice to see see a project that's kind of bright and new there and a little bit more activity I think times it can be you know a little bit devoid of foot traffic and and a few other things I think that this will go a long way with some new LED lighting and and just just to kind of spruce things up a bit and then also um I I heard somebody mention issues in terms of parking there I you know I me I have a lot of experience we've rent quite a few properties to U ofm students there just aren't as many kids with cars nowadays as maybe there were

047you know I went to college graduated 12 years ago from but there just aren't as many kids with cars now a lot of parking spots will actually go unil so in terms of worries nowadays yeah when when something may have been an issue in the past it really isn't anymore so uh parking you know that that seems to be becoming a thing in the past especially you know with the scooters and delivery and everything else but um like I said I'm in support of this project I like it I think it's good for the area and um I the development team's great too so thank you very much thank you I think if there's anyone else on the line who would like to speak you can press star n to raise your hand I think

048at least two of the people that are there have already spoken but maybe everybody Mr Leonard [Music] um no another one but no raised hands so all right then I will close the public hearing oh there's oh we'll reopen the public hearing caller with the phone number ending with the number 663 you have three minutes to address the Planning Commission thank you um can you hear me yes we can excellent um my name is Robert dlan and I live at 837 South Main Street and uh like previous caller uh uh my wife and I own one8 E Davis which is behind uh the proposed development and I want to express um it it it's support but I don't think that anyone really likes the six-bedroom format but I think that that is what uh the

049city codes uh permit and um the two properties there are uh are are difficult um and uh so uh so I think that as much as uh I can I support this um I am uh equally uh sort of unconcerned with parking uh in the first place the neighborhood that we live in is all parked up so adding more parking just means that it would go somewhere else uh there's no more capacity so I don't know that that's actually going to change much um I would like to strenuously point out that this is not really a student neighborhood um I think that that is a a misconception it's actually relatively far from main campus and uh I think the Tradewind building and the Edinburgh building which are uh on the south and east of it

050uh are a mixture of student and Workforce housing so I I I I don't really like the idea of a purely student building um on the other hand uh I really like that they're keeping this large Landmark walnut tree um that we actually share a bit of it is a neighborhood resource it provides an enormous amount of shade It's a Wonderful tree and um it really should be uh should be treasured um I also appreciate the uh work to keep uh storm water to a minimum uh every other property on East Davis on that side of the block is downg gradient from this so managing storm water helps us all because all of our storm water kind of flows downhill and we're all struggling I think in various ways to manage it so this this

051does certainly help us uh especially as Ron clay soil so there's a uh not much that can really be done um otherwise I think it's a reasonable uh development and I hope the Planning Commission Works to make this as uh as good as it can be thank you very much bye thank you if any of the other caller on the line would like to speak on this issue um you can press star n to raise your hand everybody that's everybody they've already spoken okay great then I will close the public hearing for real this time um and read the motion uh which is the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approve the 907 and 9913 South Main Street site plan and development agreement subject to combining both Lots

052before issuance of any permits and elimination of Street trees outside the public right of way by the zoning board of appeals moved by commissioner milin seconded by commissioner sove we are in discussion anybody want to kick us off Comm commissioner dish thank you I just have a couple of questions um I I want to note first I want to express uh um gratitude for the public who've called in and and also um send us notes and I appreciate the thoughtfulness and detail of the questions that they've raised and also I appreciate the the understanding of what the zoning permits here and I appreciate that that's reflected in your comments we don't always like what it permits but it permits it so there we go we have to work with it um so I wanted to

053just verify this was a question that I had had earlier um you mentioned tonight that the solar that you're installing on the roof which by the way I think is trfic is going to offset about 50% of what the what what is actually used at the property I just wanted to verify that I heard that right because that's a pretty good number yeah I mean roughly uh we're looking at 20 to 25k uh W and based on preliminary electrical loads we're looking at a 400 amp service and that could the solar could roughly handle around 200 amps plus or minus you know so yeah we're looking um to hopefully offset half the half the load that's uh require ampage wise okay that's uh that's great um I understood that you were providing and I didn't

054hear you say this in the presentation but I might have just zoned out for a minute but I understood that you were providing um parking for two Zip Cars did I so let let me speak to that we I I'm I'm exploring that as an option so the basically the way the parking is we have seven spots under the building and then there's two spots uh immediately outside the building um my goal is is to try and have those two spots be available for car sharing Services um I haven't finalized or entered into a contract so I can't be 100% like this is a done deal but that's um you know this this goes back to addressing I think some of the comments about parking um you know I think the way people use cars

055is changing dramatically and my expectation is in the next five ten years well I'll be surprised if many of us are even driving but uh the the goal the goal is is for us to provide um car sharing services and as I mentioned earlier the the - shaped or the circular driveway in front of the building I think it'll promote the use uh for the ease of Entry exit of uh um ride sharing as opposed to car sharing okay yeah thank you um yeah I just I I I agree with you about the the use of cars is changing and it's it's an enormous expense and so people who live without cars prefer to do that and so if you are able to make a provision for car sharing I think it would um it

056would also really facilitate that you know lower impact lifestyle I I just wanted to um I just wanted to make sure that the question about the retaining wall and snow removal and stacking of snow near the retaining wall that all of that has been answered between we received a letter about that and Miss Weatherby raised that in her call I just wanted to make sure that all of that had been worked out because the the retaining wall from the picture that we got um in the communications file it it it's looking a little less like a wall and more like a pile of stones in some places and so I'm just wonder how that's going if I may I did send Miss WBY an email with responses just a quick summary of it is the

057dryway is going to be heated so our expectation is is that we wouldn't have you know massive snow piles I think we're required to show a snow a zone for where the snow would be stockpiled or whatever but our intent is to or what we have in the designs right now is is put a heated driveway uh with regards to I'm G to turn this over to Patrick but with regards to the retaining walls uh Patrick can I turn this over to you for a response and then uh sure um well I just couple of additional items the the the existing retaining walls um are not in the best of shape um the I think there we might have some additional discussions um later on there is uh on the east side of the existing

058retaining wall which is still on the project site property um as was said before the sometimes the lines are suggestions um but there is a some existing Landscaping uh vegetation things of that sort that the neighbors uh like and so um we want to try to preserve all that uh and then I guess the other comment just in terms of the uh the proximity of the wall to the rest of the construction there is about 8 to nine feet of separation from the uh edge of the parking space to the back of the wall so um there is some some area there that we could that's you know uh keeps it from getting Disturbed too much and I I just wanted to add if I may um you know I'm happy to reach out to

059miss Weatherby uh to see if she had um some thoughts or ideas on on what we could do with it I think in the grand scheme of uh you know the cost of this development I think upgrading it modifying that retaining wall isn't going to be and I'm certainly happy to uh figure out a solution that I think would be satisfactory for all I guess one other thing the um that gets back to I think the comment about preserving the walnut tree there is a the north south wall and then there's an East West Wall um the East West Wall kind of is growing or the tree is growing into the wall um and then that really needs to be preserved to kind of preserve everything else around it so that's also going to be

060part of the discussion is there anything else commissioner dish I guess I forgot to say one other nice thing which was thank you for all the bike parking commissioner milstein thank you um so my question um primarily stems from parking um so I want to get a better understanding of how cars are going to move uh in and around the uh first um uh in the indoor parking and then further um a little bit about the outdoor parking um especially because it looks like some of the spots especially the spots that are on the south side of the building um appear that I'm just trying to figure out how are people going to back in and out how is there adequate space to do so because all the spots look really tight in there um

061and I'm just having a I'm having some trouble understanding how the turning radius like how that all works so can someone speak to that uh in regards to parking within the building first and then I have some additional questions regarding the spots outside can I turn this over to you or or Patrick I don't know well um I can try to answer that I guess I mean I I you know we've laid out the parking per even the interior parking uh is a is a lot in itself just inside a building so it's it's based on the the standards of the city ordinances as far as you know parking's concerned we do have uh two allocated compact spaces which uh are inside the building um they're 8 by 16 the rest of the spaces are

0629 by um 18 with a 22 foot Lane so in effect it's it's not any different than uh a parking lot outside it's just inside a building so I mean it's as tight as your normal parking space uh in in Drive aisle that you know is allowed within any commercial project to you know so so the way the spot in the South uh let's see in the southwest side of the building sort of that's nudged in the corner there it looks slightly to comp is it say compact spaces yeah the two compact but the one that's um at the very in the building on the south side of it I'm just trying to figure out like how how is that person GNA be pulling out exactly yeah so as far as so that's why we

063put the compact into that near into that area there because yes we don't have the the backup capacity turning back because it's a smaller car the other spaces we're we're at so that last 9ft space near the the water uh meter area is is tight but it works I mean it it does work it's it's within reason um so that's why we put did put the compact spaces where we put them because it is tighter so nor a normal parking spot wouldn't work in those two spots okay Mr chain do do you have any comments on that from the staff's perspective uh yeah I was just looking at the the layout just to refresh my memory it is correct you have a minimum 22t Lane which is it's meeting the the minimum Lane and you're

064allowed up to 35% small car parking so it does appear that it's tight but it also appears that it's it's meeting the minimum code um and just to kind of go back and and touch on I know parking was a concern per our ordinance you only need one and a half spaces per unit so yes there may be 36 bedrooms being proposed but only nine parking spaces are required okay um thank you Mr changen um and then my next question has to do with regards to um the two parking spots outside um so somebody pulls into them how are they getting out of those two spots can someone walk me through that I should say not how they're getting out of the spot how are they getting out of onto Main Street absolutely yeah so

065those all all residents correct me uh if I'm wrong uh uh sash but it is an overhead garage door so that the parking secured and heated um what we'll do is any any of the um the tenants will have garage door openers so if they need to they will back out of the space open the garage door and back in a bit and pull out so you know that's so that that's what it's we we'll have end up doing okay thank you that answers that question and then just a little bit more about movement um in the front of the building just so you get a better sense of the u-shaped driveway that's there um can you just so will there be parking allowed um in the u-shaped driveway purely for deliveries and yeah that

066that will be a No Parking Zone um and I think one thing I remember from when I was school the the tool truck companies in an arbor are incredibly good uh making sure that the that's enforced so that'll just be for a loading unloading Zone and there'll be science posted indicating okay and then um with regards to pulling out of that spot um heading uh southbound um just the way at least from looking at the plans here from the site plan it's going to be pretty tough to get a good visual um because the lanes are tight there on South Main um has there been has the traffic engineer uh looked at that and made sure that there's adequate um space to turn uh southbound onto Maine from that U shape Drive Patrick we had

067do you remember the page number that we did well the yeah we've we had quite extensive discussions about the uh how we could I guess mainly related to delivery Vans being kind of liviing factor and on sheets c9c which I think is the very last page in the packet shows a couple different scenarios circulation plans um about how the uh like a loading van like a federal express or Amazon would be getting in and out and presumably if they could uh navigate it that uh you know a smaller passenger car would have much less issue okay Mr changen um are was our traffic engineer involved in the review of this yeah yeah so we did have extensive reviews with the traffic engineer with the engineer uh with solid waste and with the urban Forester to

068coordinate all of the traffic movements the site visibility on site the pedestrian traffic the trash pickup so it it it took quite a few meetings as the petitioner will probably tell you of coordination to get to the point for this design with the turning radius is and for it to be approved by all four departments okay I think there's also two uh is it I think C the all the C9 sheets say that three times really fast the alternative yeah they all have to do with the vision clearance and the circulation okay yeah c9a c9b a B and C and C okay yeah they were really fun meetings we had a great time doing those so it was fun great okay um so that is my questions thank you so much for answering those um

069overall I think it's a um uh it's an attractive building you know it's um there's been some renovation of buildings and now with 618 and 615 being built there um I think this will fit in Fairly nicely into that area um so um kudos to you for doing something out of the box in that area um and thank you for not making it uh brown brick uh I appreciate that to have some variety in that Corridor um so thank you so much um for that um and I'm supportive of this development I'm not worried about parking one bit I just want to get a better understanding of how cars were going to be moving in around that site so thank you so much thank you commissioner abens hi um I just have a couple questions

070so I guess one is about this walnut tree which I'm gathering is really important for the Neighbors of the neighborhood um I just wondered um like what are the protections that get put into place to make sure that it doesn't get damaged during construction because we definitely have times when the plan is to save a beloved tree but then there's something which inevitably happens and um and then yeah and then the petitioner has to pay into the tree fund but that doesn't help the people in this on this block who love this tree so I just wanted to hear a little bit about the plans for protecting it during construction Patrick do you want to address that or I just want to say one thing I love that tree too I mean number of hours

071we spent um working around that or REM modifying our designs to to make sure that that tree would be as protected as possible was very significant it wasn't uh uh it wasn't something that just uh we were ignoring but that Patrick I think we've documented some protection measures and we're happy to do more as needed but uh I think we've documented these we I'll turn this over to Patrick for yeah we had we had uh again uh extensive staff conversations about this very issue on sheet 6 c6b there is a uh special solar compaction mitigation and treatment process um that uh and that we'll probably be elaborating on that even more but simply put there's going to be um uh a couple techniques that that are that can be successful and keep in mind it's

072there's a gravel parking lot there right now so there's the roots are are um you know have been I guess compacted um we would be removing that there would be a combination of like construction fencing to kind of keep it away from the trunk a little bit but from a realistic standpoint you're not going to be able to get to the crown and so another technique is to use um uh thick layers of bark mulch to um to minimize any further compaction that would be on there so that that Vehicles reasonably can drive over that during construction and as long as you don't leave the bark mulch on there for more than a couple months you're not suffocating the roots or doing other detrimental damage so there will be a number of uh techniques similar

073to that to um to keep it protected and then In The End by converting that to more of a Lawn and Landscape area should actually um help help it in the long run and if there was any any damage to the remov with the removal of the gravel it will help it recover that much better okay thank you um my next question is just about the the yard space in the back the the kind of open space which I think is a really great um amenity and feature of the site plan I wondered if there's any like how you imagine that space being used and also maybe if you've thought about the maintenance of that of that yard um as a kind of recreational space for 30 some odd undergraduate students and the ways it

074might get used maybe that's something that just falls under the property management agreement with Oxford but yeah I I think the maintenance of it will certainly fall under um under uh the the property management agreement um you know I think one of the things that we did is there there's two there's like a little bit of a veranda in the back and then there's a roof toop and then the open space I think all of those spaces I think are going to work well together for students to just hang out relax watch a football game and so on um so you know our intent is is to make that you know we're not you know some of the other student housing developments I think that swimming pools and all these other crazy things it's not

075going to be like that you know I think it'll be more maybe picnic tables or something that people can just gather around we haven't formalized the exact location but I really I I think the way we design the building is there's a l-shape right and what I'm imagining is is that the other square like with the retaining walls it'll create like a nice rectangular area and then if you're up on the roof space looking down I think it it'll create like a nice movement and uh um active open space in in that section so that our our plan is just to do something nice that kids can enjoy um I don't have a specific list of you know the furniture or things that we're going to put there as yet but it's really going to

076be meant to be for kids to enjoy a h you know on a nice fall day or whatever so um and then my thank you my last question is just um so I appreciate the efforts uh made in the design and in the project uh towards sustainability the solar panels the EV um charging stations and I wondered if as a project team you had talked about the possibility of um electrification where you would not bring natural gas line which is a fossil fuel to the building but actually uh have appliances in HVAC that p Electric right I I so we we we want to and we need to have uh backup power generation I think for that we're going to need to have natural gas supply um with regards to the actual gas supply into

077the units themselves I think we could probably avoid that we haven't made a final decision on whether for the cook tops would be gas or electric uh but I think we we're going to need gas for sure because of the backup power generation um the question is um and and and I'm certainly open to it if uh you know if you guys mandated that we not have gas into the kitchens I think I don't think it would be a big deal uh we could certainly do that but we are going to have natural gas into the the building but it may be primarily for uh for the backup generation generator so yeah it's def not something I'm going to man I'm going to you know mandate or authority mandated anyway but it's not something that

078going to be a deal breaker for me but just would strongly encourage you to consider I think even the I yeah go ahead oh sorry one thing and I F I've talked about this recently was is part of the Soul There's an opportunity to potentially and it would take away from the solar for the the electric uh of the building but maybe use solar to for hot water heat for heating the water so but it's a totally different system um so it's a possibility we're we're open to a lot of things and I get it um potentially not having gas in the building is great because we can you know obviously do a lot of things with that and opportunity just to have just to have gas for a generator for backup power and whether

079that's even necessary or not I mean that's something that will you know again is is st's business model for for the uh for the rental but um you know a lot of things that I'm doing I do some projects in Detroit with we're doing Workforce housing and and a lot of things that we're doing are electric you know we're trying to get away from gas um and it but it's hard too because electric it's expensive too so you know we have to look at you know the as soon as things start Chang changing where Gas and Electric are on equal bases but the only way we do it is with alternative sources so yeah we're definitely open to that and as you know the alternative sources only help if we're using the electricity made by

080those alternative sources instead of the natur EXA yeah it's the long it's being the long game there um but it's very I would say it's very important to s that we do things like that you know that are sustainable and uh renewable you know and that's going down to we're looking at doing things above and um the traditional energy code so you know ashray standards which is a code that the energy um the energy code uh within Michigan fils so we're looking to do extensive insulation um and you know things of that nature so okay thank you okay oh that's all just I don't have any those that's rest all my questions thanks so commissioner hamers Schmid I see you um I don't know if anybody else has noticed I haven't been like just checking

081my phone um Brett lost connection and so did Chris Chang and so it sounds like it might be a city thing and since some of us may have questions for them um or at the very least they take notes because to report that out when this goes on what I'm going to propose is that we take a 10 minute recess um now Brett is not returning my text which means he's probably on with it figuring out how he can get back on um uh and so let's take our water break bathroom break now and come back in 10 minutes time perfect we'll do okay okay thank you yep e e e um all right I will call us back to order commissioner hamers you had your hand up I did I feel like that was

082forever ago now and I was going to make a cute segue I was going to thank the petitioners for the very nice comments and compliments that they had about staff and then be like but where did they go but thank you guys for the nice compliments you had for staff um okay what were my questions um so I had a couple parking related one of them was triggered by something that commissioner milin said I was curious and maybe this is something that um the management company will deal with but do you have any thoughts on like how parking might be assigned and I guess I'm asking because I'm wondering what's going to happen if somebody if it's not assigned and somebody pulls into the garage and then all the spaces are taken and like how

083do they back up I I guess I was just wondering if you had thought about assigning slots yes and no I mean I think I have a big idea of how I would like to proceed but typically what happens is they get a a permit that is required and uh it's usually a little bit of a tag that you hang on the rearview mirror right uh if that permit doesn't exist they're going to get towed um I think one scenario is um one one scenario is that each unit would get one spot and then there would be one extra unit uh as I mentioned earlier the two spots outside I really want to try and partner with some that's just going to have uh car sharing um so that's kind of what I was thinking

084um um but uh it's not 100% certain yet um the one thing that I will uh I think there's going to be a little bit of a self selection in the sense that uh that they'll address the parking issues there's plenty of other units in that area that offer parking as part of the rental package uh if a student really needs parking or has a car I think they're just going to not rent in our unit and it is what it is so that's uh uh you know it's a it's it's a a competitive disadvantage for me not to have parking but I think in the long run I I really do believe what I said earlier which is I I think there's going to be five ten years down the road I I just

085don't see this need need for massive massive parking lots yeah no I mean I'm I've no problem with the amount of parking when I was a student long long time ago I had a car when I lived in a dorm and I got very creative on how I parked it so people will find a way I'm not super worried about right exactly exactly what I was more concerned about is just like the like looking at the configuration of the garage you know like if there is this say like 10 of them have cars and like they all compete to try to park in there and then it's full like no I me room to like back out and right there won't be I mean unless someone Parks illegally there there wouldn't be 10 cars there

086would be at most seven uh if someone does Park illegally uh and someone can't get out they're going to call the management company and the management companies will get it towed uh that's essentially what would happen um so I yeah I and and typically the way Oxford Works they don't assign one specific spot uh they generally issue out for example in this case seven uh parking tags uh and then they're free to park wherever they want inside so as long as only seven tags are assigned within the building there's no problem that's exactly right and if someone someone breaks those rules they're gonna get to yeah yep so the I wanted to go back to the two surface parking spaces um because commissioner M had asked about how you get out of those spaces um

087and I think the the response was you know if they're residents they'd have a garage remote and could sort of back in that way but if they're going to be car sharing Spa spaces for car sharing I think then they would be backing out all the way into Main Street does that sound right uh I mean it doesn't sound right because I I think we could still have the garage door opener in the car but it does bring up the possibility that someone Maks the garage door opener for for whatever reasons I think if you go down that road um we would probably try have to try and figure out a way to have that garage door opener somehow not be able to be taken out of the car I haven't gone down that far

088in my thinking frankly but uh um um I I think we could do I think we could provide some kind of a fixed U um the idea what I'm hoping for there's a couple of companies that I've been looking at basically it's a little bit different than car which is the zip car allows you to basically Park any car in those assigned spots right but there's new companies that are coming out that are more offering this to landlords as an amenity that they can offer to tenants right where there's two fixed car I mean there's a certain number of specific cars that are only in that parking lot right so that's a little bit different than the zip car model um and this is more go ahead oh no I was going to ask this

089only then for tenant you exactly it's only it's it's a really uh an interesting model and I'm trying to figure out who or how that can be serviced um but the idea would be there'd be two cars and there would be for exclusive use of the tenant okay well then yeah then that would make sense then to have remotes yeah that's really interesting you'll have to let us know it's a really interesting model yeah and there's some Revenue share I think that to make to to entice the the landlords the number I got from one company is about 10 or 15% of their revenues they share with the landlord not not that that that's what I'm seeking but it's that's kind of the business model that they're offering well and I think it that you

090know that kind of specific model too I would think would sort of alleviate this this concern that like you know 70 people are going to be bringing cars to this spot when you have access to you know a couple dedicated for your building cars and you know you can res serve it if you need to go to the grocery store or something like that like I think that that takes away a lot of that concern I mean you know when I had my car on campus a lot of it it was just because I needed to like make these grocery trips right we didn't have car share two decades ago right um and even that model is changing I think a lot of grocery are going to be delivering groceries as well very very true

091the way I buy groceries is much different thanks Co um so I I really appreciate the mix of decks and Lawn space in this project I think having that outdoor Space is really important so I really like that um you know I thought the the comment about this doesn't really fit into the neighborhood or and this is not really a student neighborhood soort interesting comments I think you know I've been thinking about this as as the discussion has been going on and you had mentioned something at the beginning about you know just the population of of the university is growing so much and the housing can't keep up with it and just where this location is I I mean like maybe this is not a student neighborhood now but we're pretty we're pretty close to

092South Campus like I just I no I I don't I I think it it you know not that it's going to change into an a fully student neighborhood but I see that students would be attracted to this particular area um I haven't seen I'm sorry I'm just gonna add one I haven't seen what the plans for the fingerly lumber site that the university bought which is the big six six acre parcel uh but my my expectation is the University's kind of moving I think once I don't know what all is going to go there um but my expectation is is this will feel a little bit closer to campus when that development happens as well so yeah I mean to me it already sort of feels close to campus but I think you're right if

093that comes in that would be even even more so you know and I assume it being professionally managed by a management company neighbors will be able to contact somebody if there are concerns about noise um I also really like the design um I'm not an architect but I thought it was nice I don't think it looks too out of scale for the neighborhood um so I guess my last question although most of the have been comments sorry was just you know like in doing you know have you done a market analysis and do you see that there is a market for six bedroom units because that's a lot of units right or bedrooms in a unit right um so I own a few other properties some of which are uh six-bedroom units we're able to

094and typically the way this happens is if you're uh very proactive in marketing and on schedule uh we tend to get large groups and you know they they men and they sign one lease uh if we fail that and comes April May what we end up having to do is that rent by room my goal and my preference would be to rent to a larger group um and uh you know that that's where I think Oxford comes in they do a really good job of scheduling um leasing um now my expectation especially I think some some of the things that we're putting in again you know if I think about the bedroom as a product some of the things that we're doing is is to have an attached bathroom for example uh I think those

095kinds of things really help um uh help with the marketing and I think it's a it's one of the from there's a student housing uh magazine that does these surveys that's the number one uh uh requested amenity so my my my expectation is is that you know as long as we're not pricing the rents out at a you know very high number uh we should be able to build the uh fill these fild this property at least I'm betting a lot of money on this and I'm not a big time developer I promise you no I mean like again I was in college a hundred years ago but I had like five roomates so like probably would have Lov to have a six six bathroom house right and it's it's a fun experience experience I

096think for kids too to to um be able to share and and and then you know the other things that we're doing is just to have uh at least two kind of spaces for people to hang out so you could have and and it can be a larger space when uh you know if you want to just have that flow um you know my my hope is is that you know especially when we do the backyard and the the roof space and and all of that I think there'll be some attractive features I mean they're not going to be over the top like having swimming pools and movie theaters and crazy things like that but I think there'll be attractive features people to just hang out relax have fun and hopefully study at some point

097yeah at some point well thank you it also really nice hearing the comments from the callers that you guys have been a really great team to work with so appreciate all that you've done to work with the neighbors that is it for me for now thank you commissioner s follow up on a couple things um I appreciate a lot about the black walnut and maintaining the retaining wall but it looks like there is foundation in some of the drip line so I just want to kind of ask so we can discuss it uh with the public about um the excavation around the drip line of that corner of the black wall of the walnut tree what's planned for that pck can I turn this over to you or well um I mean I guess the

098the short answer is it excavation will have to be done very carefully um uh I guess I not to be not to sound too to flip about it um but that we already you know to a a pretty great extent there's there's a lot of house foundations there's a lot of older other older foundations under the drip line in that vicinity there's the gravel parking lot um it's not like we're going to be digging into virgin virgin soil so um I think again we have to be careful about it do some of the protection items that I mentioned earlier um but there is already a lot of disturbance in that area and presumably the way the roots are are kind of uh growing away from that area right now um obviously we need to confirm

099that but I think it's a little bit less of a concern in this particular situation then it would be um again if it was just all nice pristine lawn or something like that if that helps a little bit and then I do see um go uh C6 nope there's a different one it is called out one of the plans C3 um to have on that north south retaining wall to have the retaining wall behind it so I guess I just want to confirm like is that second retaining wall happening or is it notated that it could happen relative to additional discussions with the neighbors I I think unfortunately that the the note that you see in C3 was left over from a um a previous iteration so I apologize for that it we did have

100um uh there were a couple different scenarios where we were replacing that wall the way it is now we we can keep that wall and then um as I mentioned there is um uh vegetation um on the east side of that wall that the neighbor would like to keep and so that's I believe the current plan I guess s correct me if I'm wrong but um I think the more we can keep all that intact uh um you know understanding that the walls doesn't look the best I agree but the more we can keep that whole area intact it's going to be better for the existing trees in that area okay that just helps because it sounded like it could go either way so I just wanted a clarification on what the like initial plan

101is and it sounds like you've got discussions if something yeah we we have looked at that quite a bit so and I I apologize for the errant note there okay um other questions EV parking I saw in the staff report that that's going to get Incorporated before it goes to city council um is that only for the underground spaces or the two space exteror exterior spaces as well I guess where's the plan for the EV charging Kevin you're on mute sorry about that um we will have the seven spaces under the building will be installed with level two char ERS the two outside and again I'll I'll refer to satch um we will have those you know EV ready um unless you want to do those as well so it's up to you but um

102we definitely will have the seven inside the EV you know installed okay I I I I think that's right I think our immediate goal is just to make sure that the seven are ready um with regards to the two outside one it's gonna again I keep it's gonna depend on how they get used uh whether I can really find a car sharing company that you know if they're only using the electric cars will'll certainly make that happen um but I think our intent right now is to make it Eevee ready okay just making sure that it's all set that all of them can be and that doesn't require a lot infastructure down the road for any of those spots so just sorry Lisa if I can backtrack to your we we do have we have

103an arur on even within our you know our group that we can go back to as far as that Walnut when we do do construction to make sure that every effort is you know based on their recommendations with construction because you know again construction is what it is but we will do every effort it's a it's going to be a trench footing we're going to do minimal amount of work back there uh once we get the trench footing in there there's no vehicles are going to go back there as far as for construction everything's going to be coming from off of Main so but we definitely will work with the arborist and work with them on on you know their their path of recommendations into to to to minimize any damage of that tree but

104and there are techniques yeah I guess to elaborate on that terms of you can uh trim you you can do some preemptive pruning of the of the canopy that will compensate for Selective pruning of the root Zone and you know you want to you can cut them cleanly and do other techniques so that the tree can uh you know can kind of absorb that the the main thing is is that you you you want to do that a little bit ahead of time prepare the tree prepare the site before you actually start digging so that's all going to be part of that plan okay yeah that's I I mean that's where it can be a really active site and the more strategically you work away from there um it just seems like such an important

105asset um and we've seen other properties where we can't have so much of a say in kind of reviewing some of the trees natural features too um especially going from single family to this we've got a lot more kind of control and uh stake in natural features we can have um control of um my next question is access for delivery so if we have delivery trucks at the top it seems like there's a small paved area next to the driveway but it might go from like a foot wide to three or four feet wide at the bottom where there's a door into the garage so I'm just trying to get an understanding of how delivery drivers are bringing it to the parcel locker and the mailboxes that are in the driveway and if they're walking

106down that ramp sight lines with cars coming out versus a parcel Locker you know at the front of the building or somewhere else that they're not walking in the driveway so is there a way to make we never thought about putting it up up at the top but we possibly could um but conversely I don't think anybody going up and down that ramp is going at excessive speed but um um so I you know it's it's something we could look at maybe putting it up at the top and I'm looking at the side right now um but possibly putting with the truck actually the Del Amazon or FedEx or DHL or UPS comes and delivers they can we can have we were look we were looking at doing a lux box which is a a

107brand I don't know if you're familiar with it but it's a um proprietary ma uh mail packaging system yep that tracks the packages being delivered so um and and in lie of also with having a USBS box as well for for General mail um we could do that you know again we could look at it being up there um again the students would have to go up there but um me half of the entries are off the front anyway as well so three of the four entry three of the three entries are off the front so I guess we could look into that it just seems like a risky you know you've got no load no loading right in front of the parcel lockers but because you're there it just seems so easy for the

108delivery trucks to come down that ramp park right in front of it tuck them into those parcel lockers and drive off so getting looking at connecting those two things together in the same location and you know or even just widening That Sidewalk ramp down with a curb so that they're carrying packages on a trolley like they have the width to do that if you've got room to narrow that driveway and increase That Sidewalk ramp um I think one of the those two things is really important since we know that packages are just the new thing um so yeah that was kind of a thing I'd like to see addressed uh and and Lisa commissioner dish this is kind of your role of things if you if you could kind of like flag when you see

109them move forward it's not something that I'm going to have issue with you know with this project here but if we can see those updates um before it com the city council that'd be great I'm just taking a note on that because it would just never have occurred to me to go into that level of detail so thank you yeah um I think electric appliances I just encourage that too I think it's an easy thing um and personally I think we've looked at r4c and I'm just this leave with this final comment r4c is such a unique use type with these six bedrooms and a lot of the projects that we see are very hard to convert and as we assess this use type in the six bedrooms this project is actually feasible to convert

110I know it's been raised almost as an issue to create more units but as parking is by unit instead of bedroom and so like the beds don't change like the occupancy doesn't change I think this is actually a benefit of the project that some of these units could be split into a two-bedroom and a four- bedroom instead of a full six bedroom with the multi-kit and you know how the uses and on the entry floor Etc so for me I would just advise to do the one hour fire rating between those areas so that you could separate them in the future if ordinances change and actually allow for more units because really that that new configuration with how it's set up enables even more diversity within this development you can have a six-bedroom unit for

111college students you can have a one-bedroom unit for you know an individual Workforce you can have two bedroom units for and four bedroom units for families so I actually think it's a benefit to see kind of the Ingenuity and flexibility of a development of the size being able to switch between different unit sizes um so I think this is a good case for how r4c can think forward and be an Adaptive reuse project and set of us being stuck with these weird six bedroom units after they're built so just a comment uh that that's kind of the side of preference that I'm actually on with seeing how this project moves forward and I think with the commercial uh fire suppression and things like that you really do have the projects set up to be able

112to split in the future if ordinance allows right so that's it for me thank you this isn't actually I was going to end on that comment but the the question about whether these were designed to be able to split was mine I raise that flag because to be clear if you didn't look because usually we don't get Interiors or we don't look closely at Interiors there are six units but 11 kitchens right um You guys that was super Savvy like I mean I gotta say I this design was super creative and thinking about how you can have functioning but what what are there two kitchens and units in this town like why two kitchens I I think that's a again I I I think about the bedroom as a product at least in my mind

113and and specifically I think about as a as a product uh that's being marketed to uh generally the mothers and parents of kids right and and so from my perspective I'm trying to create uh a a a product that would be very competitive and and I I I think as as as I think about what student housing is going to look like uh in the future um this is not like a single family home where everybody's going to be sharing one meal right like with one person cooking and then we sharing what's typically GNA happen is you're gonna have six kids they're all gonna want to have their own Foods there may be some Rel you know uh kosher versus non- kosher or in my case like Hindu vers you know Hindu vegetarian versus non-hindu

114uh so there's a kind of a a desire for me to offer the diversity of being able to say okay at a minimum you have two workspaces that you can cook in but the other component is just the practicality of it right is there's going to be multiple people cooking and by having like these shared kitchens uh or or two kitchens you could have like basically two people cooking simultaneously uh and then going back to the competitiveness of it you know I see a lot of people offering um uh you know two refrigerators for example in a in an apartment that has six bedrooms mine is just an extension know that idea it really is is look you don't have just two refrigerators or two sets of cabinets or what have you have two kitchens

115you can have two people cooking I I I think it this is going to be a big competitive Advantage like compared to properties like the yard or some of the other new developments that are out there uh I think people are going to like it just the same way that I felt that we're gonna have a bathroom per bedroom or the fact that a kid doesn't necessarily have to go up two flights of stairs like we have all everything the living rooms in one flight and then the bedroom on an upper or a lower flight um these are all things that I think we I feel anyways a competitive Advantage for that bedroom as a product I just think there are other things about this design which leis is all into commissioner s is very

116into adaptive reuse right right many of these units have two door front doors so the stairways are meant it it seems that half of the bedrooms are upstairs half far downstairs like I'm just saying I think it stretches go ahead okay I want I want to address that because I think uh so way if I'm pronouncing your name correctly hit well in my thinking anyway she hit exactly what I was thinking which is if the ordinance ever changes and and I will do everything I can like from a political perspective to to change it because if it changes I want to be able to separate it but if it doesn't change uh there's lots of restrictions on my ability to separate the properties right like the rental you know the inspections and uh I can't

117have multiple leases so I'm fully committed to having uh bedrooms 36 student occupancy there isn't a you know I might get a little bit higher rents if these were hypothetically separable un or separate units but I don't think it'll be from an economics perspective I don't think it it it might increase my rents by 5 10 15% some somewhere in that neighborhood I perspective you know as opposed being able to rent it as two or three or uh two units but the reality is you know I I I think I'll be able to get a fair rent um with the six bedrooms but the the big primary reason for me to design it is what mwe said if the ordinance ever changes I want to have the flexibility to to be able to split them

118and split them easily but I still I will still have an issue with say the meters and I'll still have the issue with utilities there's lots of things that you know it's not just a matter of putting like a one hour rating that that's going to create two separate units there's like lots and lots of other restrictions on my ability to do that yeah committing myself to not doing that unless something changes in the so as long as you're aware of that take it from I'm sorry go for it go ahead go ahead Sarah no goad and take it from me the designer of the building it it's going to be hard to if we wanted to turn this into 12 units it would be very difficult to do I even though we have double

119kitchens there's still a lot of factors codewise that would make that very very very hard so um take it from me so yeah well six units as long as long as you know that I mean I think I again it it caught my eye just because first of all the color coding is pretty cool on the site plans to be able to see that and when I saw with the color coding of the different units and when I saw like two kitchens within them I was like what is that and so that and then I looked closer and then I saw that this is it's super smart design I think and in terms of being able to adapt and maybe our ordinance will change and so I appreciate that just as long as you're aware

120that that is you know that that's not possible now um I'm okay with that I want to I'm bringing it to our attention because as commissioner so said and as one of the callers said this it we're you're going to see Pro commission propose business for me later to talk about r4c r2a to talk about how whether we regulate things by units or by bedrooms and so I'm just gonna sh to say this is an example of you know there's not as much of a market we just heard right for six bedroom units as there are for smaller like you know and in this situation I am not at all worried about parking but because there is a multiplier like if this becomes and our our multiplier is based on unit size or is based

121on unit not unit size whether they're building efficiency apartments or six-bedroom apartments they have to have the same amount of parking and that just doesn't make sense in this place it's not a big deal but there are other places parts of the city where that may be a big deal and is expensive it's it's especially the underground parking it's a big ticket items it's not uh it's not something that I would much rather spend my money elsewhere than on Park underground parking frame I would much rather you spend your money elsewhere and I'm glad honestly that you're not overb building the parking but now that circles back to one question that I have which thank you Commissioners this I I do let going last in this because like the idea about how are if you

122have car share how are how are they going to back out into the garage if they don't have a remote like awesome discussion you guys took that care of that um um I had a similar question about the parking and the like the loop like where packages go and like are they going to use the loop and so moving that around I think is great thank you for raising all of that I would say to the neighbors there's not supposed to be parking in that Loop there's definitely not supposed to be parking over the sidewalk in the loop if you see it and before the before the um building owner does like that's something that you can call like you can report in because there's not supposed to be parking over the sidewalk in particular

123um and there's not supposed to be parking in front yards like this is that's not designed as a parking place so um that's kind of again more for Neighbors to keep that in mind um I'm curious though especially if you're thinking of that your Market is students like I again that you have plans for drop off I actually I love the loop for thinking about you know Ubers and all of that and and package delivery I think that that's fantastic um when I was a student my parents would want to come and visit me where are you going to tell them parents weekend where do their parents Park you've got 36 you say it's students 36 students where are their parents parking unfortunately the parking that we have is all we have to offer they

124cannot we we're going to regulate that that that circular driveway is going to be a nonp parking area um you know they're going to have to either Park on Davis or on Hoover or or one of the side streets that's um um that's really all that we can do I there's really not much U uh you know football football Saturdays and so on uh I could see some kids entrepreneurial kids wanting to to 15 put cars in that circular driveway but we're just not gonna let it happen and uh unfortunately that's one of the constraints of the lot and and you know the other thing about an arbor is is real EST the land values are so high that uh it's uneconomical really to to do you know if I wanted to have like two

125bedroom apartments for example it just it doesn't make any sense and I think in the long run it limits Supply um and I think it keeps rents um exceedingly High unnecessarily High relative to other college TOS right so but I think you know to answer your question we have six maybe seven we have seven spots six though we allocated I'm not quite sure what I'm going to do with that seventh spot uh and the two hopefully for car sharing uh that's all we have Mom and Dad Uber from the hotel but what I also heard and want to draw our attention to because this is something that is on our work plan is parking we're hearing a developer saying that's not like they're still able to build it so um and that parking is expensive

126parking spaces are not free they do cost something so um so that addresses that question um I I wonder I appreciate that you have more bike parking than in what than what is required because honestly for this particular area we do not have enough B bike parking required um I miss commissioner weather be's like knowledge of that area to know if eight spots is enough because I don't like I like all the time I can't really remember what the uh what Theo is there but with 36 units I'm not sure if eight spots is enough and so you might want to think about where else they will go I love that they are accessible like that they're not necessarily tucked in the back of the garage you know really hard to get to I think

127that that's F that's a really good design um otherwise you're going to have things like changeed to trees or in the middle of your you know along the edges of your Loop which you may not want so like I would plan for where people should put those more than eight the eight bikes that are Avail like spots available in your bike garage and Kevin I think you and I talked about this I we we'll take that under advisement I I I agree with you I think we should try to have more um and we can come back to you as part of the yeah I mean like I said I think we can add uh probably three to four more so we could get maybe 12 in there and we do have the area under

128the deck that we've always um the raised deck there that we could do unsecured parking uh bike parking so we can look into that too so I mean if when I drive down Main Street there are a lot of bikes that are parked by the front doors because that's convenient and so I think that the like where you have it in the garage is fantastic and if you can add more awesome because some people definitely do want it secured other people will just use the bike lock and put it the convenient place which will end up meaning it's chained very near the front door so yeah I would just so it doesn't ruin your landscaping and other plans um and the final question that I had is on solar because I think it's great that

129you have solar panels and at first I was reading the plan wrong and now I see that it's 20 kilowatts total which as a um for like a general house would have around 10 kilowatts so like the idea that it might typically when we think of 50 like when you were when you were saying that it was about 50% by amps like that's not how like usually it's kilowatt hours is what I think of because that's how you know yeah um so but yes that seems reasonable to me like attached units will take less so I I buy it although you might kind of consider what you're going to have you know what what the generation would be as you do that calculation so this is more of a a utilities like wonky question just

130because what we hear is that that's tricky so how are utilities metered in are you planning to have them metered and like who gets the those free electrons that are generated you know what I mean like are utilities included in the rent or how are you going to allocate the power from those solar panels to the six units is the question oh wow um I may have to come back to to you on this uh I haven't I I didn't I have not thought about the the allocation um or whether we would um generally speaking the utilities um are not included but I you know with with solar that might um it may be one of those things where um I'm willing to take the expense on uh at least in the you know I

131have a few other units I I've never really included I I I have to come back to you on this I think I just need to think about this you're raising questions that uh um I just don't have the immediate answers to but I back to you in an email would that be okay yeah and I would just say it how you allocate it and using it first rather than putting it directly to the grid right like we do we're in a situation of net metering so you can sell excess back to the grid if for example somebody's not charging their car right now right like those are things that or like you don't have the util the the the part of the lights for the building that you cover right that's not split you

132know that's on a the meter that you're paying but but it with that size of system like you're gonna have a lot of excess you're not going to use that much exterior lighting um you don't have interior hallways that you're lighting so it's par the parking garage and the exterior light so I don't know that you're going to use that much yourself you probably won't and so if you can use it on site first before selling it back to the system it'll actually make those solar panels more affordable right and this is why like you've got to figure out who gets it and some it's I what I've often heard and the AR the reason that I'm asking you this is that the argument sometimes against this in a bigger apartment building is like you

133like we can't add that many solar panels because how do we allocated and like anyway I mean I think it's fantastic like I want to so I want to try to learn from you is the basic just there my thought is go ahead sorry my thought is we should we have a service coming in and I think if we can tap into the service prior to the pre you know the the meter Bank that would be my thing again i' I've done solar but I've not done solar with a multipan building so it's a learning curve for me and I think my my thought would be that we would do this prior to to the meter bank so everyone can you know benefit from that okay so that's something that we work with the solder

134company we've got we've got one on board we've been talking to preliminarily so maybe that's something that we'll have to dress with them but that's a good point absolutely just again those solar panels will pay for themselves the solar panels will pay for themselves a lot faster if you can if you don't have to sell if you can use it and yeah absolutely I don't want to sell it I want to we want to use it for our project so that's a great point we want it because that's a benefit for our for the tenants for the mom and dads or to send the kids to this building because they know you know it's it's a benefit I mean this makes a strong argument for just including utilities into the rent I I I think

135as I as I hear this discussion and that may be the route we go with in in in this path that that that feels like it's probably the the easiest answer if you want to maximize or or or reduce the the the return on our investment on solar uh and also maximize our re I'm assuming that the power compan is going to pay me less than what they charge so um might yeah I think it's as I think about it a little bit more and I want to think about it further and talk to Oxford about it but it'll probably make the most sense to just provide the electricity as part of the rent another reason I'm not pushing you on this as forcefully as some others have but again if you're if you're then

136including it I know that electrifying the HVAC systems can but that is another use for that power and it's offsetting that utility so like all of these things kind of go together go hand inand together the what you were talking about in terms of additional Energy Efficiency you're you're already doing that you're you're paying The Upfront cost right like including utilities like the utilities in your building aren't going to be as expensive as they would be in another building that doesn't have that so having that all built in I don't know just something that's right I think that's right we just thought um because I think that there's an opportunity the whole process of of of understanding everything and putting it all together for sure yeah go ahe we're hoping I think we were hoping

137I we put down 20K uh 20kw right now uh but maybe there's refinement for a little bit more power generation as well uh we haven't done all the calculations so we will but that I think is going to play in this analysis as well on whether we include utilities and so on but I'm uh I'm certainly favorably disposed to including utilities I think it it'll all wash out in the end uh in terms of the rent versus uh student thing with May so um again I uh the kind of design the interior design which is not the normal thing that we look at just was one of the things that caught my attention and I think it's more again highlighting where our code is leading to some interesting yeah Oddities not I mean again you

138did what it you have six units that is what is allowed here you do not have more than 36 bedrooms that is what is allowed here um it it just highlights for me where like our code has Oddities that maybe we need to address so I will be supporting this as well does anyone else have any comments questions I think we're ready for a vote then Mr Leonard okay um commissioner Mills yes commissioner milin yes commissioner sve yes commissioner abon yes commissioner hamers Schmid yes commissioner dish yes motion carries hly very good excellent thank you so much next up city council you'll see commissioner dish again excellent look forward to it the next step will be zoning appeal right for the trees right thank you so much Chris thank you everyone we really appreciate y

139I'll get with you guys and we'll go through the next steps in the process okay excellent thank you we will sign off all right the next item is the 10A other business which is the review comment and recommendation to forward the an arbor moving together towards Vision zero city of an arbor comprehensive Transportation plan to city council for distribution and public comments so it sounds like we have Mr Cooper and Miss means to give a presentation up to 15 minutes to us Brett to fill in kind of the planning perspective and then um and then we'll have a public hearing okay I guess that's my cue to move forward yep do you have anything you need to screen share with us yeah I'm trying to get uh Stacy set up here to do that um

140Sarah you might have to do that now because you are the host and I'm now the co-host can you give H Stacy mein's co-host approval I'm gonna make you I'm gonna make you host okay um but I yeah that worked well it's amazing that not only we have to put up with a pandemic but we have to put up with technology as well yeah all right I am seeing the or I was seeing it sorry sorry I thought maybe you were seeing the wrong thing so can you guys hear me yes yes okay so you're I see the title slide I think great okay can uh I'm gonna just start off really quick uh good evening uh for those in the public my name is Eli Cooper and I'm the city's Transportation uh program manager

141and with me here this evening is uh Stacy meon from uh samam Schwarz Consulting uh she's been the project manager on our uh city transportation Plan update project I'm excited to be back in front of the Planning Commission this evening uh with this plan as we've made substantial progress uh since our working session with you uh back in mid October uh rather than uh adding to the time of the meeting at this late moment I'll just turn it over to Stacy who will walk us through the presentation and she and I will be available to answer questions uh afterwards again thank you for uh your time and consideration here this evening and now I'll turn it over to Stacy thanks Eli and thank you all for having us um as Eli mentioned we were here

142with you in October and one of the things are you guys still seeing you're seeing the Planning Commission slide now okay it says my screen sharing is paused you're not seeing that no oh there we go now we are must have hit pause by accident sorry um so one one of the things I want to go through tonight is just what has happened since that time in October and give you an overview of the document itself and then just open it up to questions so this is the slide that you saw last time I have it up here for reference and we can come back to it if we need to I wasn't planning to walk through it again but just at a very quick high level um we had these three basic phases of

143the plan we are now at the tail end of the action planning phase and uh have a a draft plan for consideration so since we last met in October we went and took the draft plan to the technical advisor committee on October 21st and then the community advisory committee that next day on the 22nd um we have had several additional one-on-one stakeholder coordination meetings particularly with u ofm and Triple A and have had some other correspondents via email with some other stakeholders we had a virtual public meeting on October 29th and and we actually went to the Transportation Commission twice since since our last meeting once on the 21st and once just more recently on the on November 18th so at each of those steps we've been refining the plan based on comments and um

144have gotten a lot of great feedback and I think it's just making it stronger so I don't have a a slide to go over every single component of the plan hopefully you have had a chance to flip through it I don't expect that you've necessarily read it word for word although if you have that's great um but it is available on the website if you have not had a chance to look at it yet and I'm just going to hit some some highlights here and just give you kind of a glimpse of what the plan is is getting the city towards um so this slide shows the table of contents we have it just an introduction a a brief overview of mobility in an arbor today and that really summarizes an earlier deliverable which was

145a full existing conditions document which is also still available on the website um the third section is about the mobility values and the goals that drove the plan and then the uh bulk of the plan is section four which are the mobility strategy section five um shows some conceptual plans of conceptual drawings of what those strategies could look like on the ground in an arbor and then that final section is about how will we make it happen so that includes cost estimates some discussion of funding and plan um development process so to start off uh we have a an overview of how the the strategies coales into projects in an arbor and so this is not really a plan of adding on you know one Capital project after another it's really a plan that takes

146uh A Safe Systems approach and and really encourages a new way of doing the same kind of work that you're already doing so it's about looking at how do we improve pedestrian uh accessibility on every project um but at the same time it is about specific projects that are that are needed to address specific safety needs so it does take a datadriven approach to identify specific areas um we we identify Target Focus corridors and focus intersections where the crash data indicates that there's a a safety issue so all told you know when we compiled all the strategies and where that is um recommending a physical capital Improvement we're displaying it here in this map as uh tier one tier 2 or tier three capital projects so this does not just include those um Corridor projects

147that we've identified it also includes bike route recommendations it includes um crosswalk recommendations sidewalk improvements or sidewalk Gap infill um and so just want to be clear that it's not just about Corridor improvements this this map is intended to show the culmination of all of the capital projects so that mobility and nror today section um you know one of the things that I think I stressed last time but I want to reiterate it tonight is that what one thing that we found is that the city of an arbor has been very proactive about making improvements and Investments and so we did see a lot of a lot of changes since the last comprehensive plan and also since um the non-motorized plan and that is really yielding some distinct results um but the city also has

148ambitious goals and so we have some more work to do the overarching goals that drove this plan are zero deaths and zero emissions and then we also drilled down into um some the values that the city of an arbor holds dear and so we took this to the public we took this to both committees and asked everybody what are the values that the the plan should take to heart and so we ended up with these five safety Mobility accessibility for all healthy people and sustainable places and Regional connectivity so you'll see these reflected in the strategies throughout the plan so we have we ended up with 22 what we call Key strategies but I think up to 77 strategies overall and each in each strategy we demonstrate how it does relate to those values and

149a lot of them Crosscut multiple values um we also demonstrate how this is a multi-disciplinary approach so while showed you a map of capital projects that is not the extent of the plan we also are talking about education strategies encouragement enforcement we're talking about how to do things more equitably and how to evaluate and and um hold the city accountable um every strategy also indicates who are the key partners and stakeholders and it's also um laid out across a a timeline of short mid or long-term strategies and those indicate when that strategy should begin and then finally we are as I already mentioned um we've built in some accountability so every strategy has some metrics Bas metrics associated with that strategy we've also Associated metrics at the value level so you the city can evalue

150As you move on along in the implementation of the plan are we achieving a more safe city are we also achieving a more accessible City a more healthy people sustainable places um and evaluate the progress that way so this is what one of those key strategies looks like there's a kind of a shorthand um a shorthand name the 13 commuter Transit and then just below that is the full name of that strategy we lay out where the city is now with respect to that strategy and then what's being proposed in the strategy description and then over here on the side the sorry excuse me at the top are the values that that strategy relates to and then with each strategy we have the timeline the lead agency as well as the stakeholders who should be

151included in achieving that strategy and the targets the metrics for each strategy and this is just a sample page from I mentioned we had 22 Key strategies that have that full treatment of this in-depth explanation but then for the full set of strategies which includes the key strategies we've laid out a full Matrix of um again showing who's leading that strategy and who are the partners what is the the value or values that it speaks to what are the disciplines that are represented for that strategy and the targets and then in that final section as I mentioned we have cost estimates and the way that we're presenting these are in two different ways you see here in the third the middle column of this Matrix a cost overview and that gives a cost either per

152item or or per intersection um so this first one for example is the strategy is to focus improvements on the key corridors and intersections where we found the most crashes and that has a range um as you might expect that's going to depending on what the issues are and what the corridor looks like that's going to have a range of anywhere from a 100,000 to over a million dollars per mile and the intersection looks like there's a little typo in this one um the intersection has a range as well but then in that final column we have proposed an estimated investment either on an annual basis or in some cases it's just a one-time investment and that's the proposed investment to get the city towards the metrics that have been laid out in the plan

153and so that's all the those are all the slides that I prepared I'm happy to open up to questions great thank you um Mr Leonard do we do the normal kind of order where you'll go next then we'll do the public hearing and then we get to ask questions yes please all right so um just uh I just wanted to frame this a little bit for the Planning Commission as a reminder we don't do uh Master planning work a lot so I just want to give you sort of a quick reminder or uh primer on what the process is so uh Master planning is governed by the Michigan planning enabling act which prescribes pretty detailed process by which Master plans are considered and adopted by communities um at the outset of this process actually uh

154the city notified uh a variety of adjacent communities stakeholders agencies that we intended to undertake a master planning process to update our transportation plan um Eli Stacy and a wide variety of other uh team members have been working diligently at that and put together this plan which is now entering the adoption phase of that process so this step this evening is um prescribed by that same state act and it is the planning commission's opportunity to comment review and recommend to the city council that this version of the document the plan intended to be adopted be distributed to those same groups other community members and provides a window of uh about two months of public comment um uh by anybody who wants to raise questions on the plan that plan then will come back to the

155Planning Commission where you will be the entity that makes the adoption of the final version as the master plan and then that proceeds to city council for a sort of an up or down vote and in the event that that is a downvote then uh city council might provide other directions and then that would come back to plan commission to undertake that work so that's an overview of the process um the plan itself um for those um generally just my observations on the plan is I think it's um it's a fantastic accessible document um I really appreciate that aspect of it um a couple of uh points that I just want to highlight um a lot of it is um work that the Planning Commission won't specifically be involved in with frankly a lot of

156public RightWay and infrastructure kind of work but there are a couple of components that are specific to uh Planning Commission work plan on the coming uh years um there's a lot of reference to increasing Transit and uh the type of land use patterns that support Transit and connectivity to provide some of those alternate means of transportation to particularly help Advance probably our zero emission goals um so that is going to be I think a big component of the planning commission's uh taking up this document um as a policy guide uh in its after its adoption um the second is um related to that specifically as a strategy is is the notion of 20- minute neighborhoods um how are our land use patterns providing those kind of mixes of uses and we've started to talk about

157this a little bit I think about you know to what extent we want to Foster and require mixed use buildings versus mixed use areas I think this is going to come into play as we look at Transit zoning which has already been identified on your work plan um another common element from this plan and your work plan is parking this plan is a little bit more focused in setting a goal that parking minimums should be eliminated towards the goal of reduction of BMT um and the related benefits of that so that is definitely going to be something that the Planning Commission is going to be looking at um and then finally I would just um say that my um and I've had just a very high level conversation with Eli about this I as we

158go forward with the adoption of this plan which I certainly hope that we do uh we I think we want to be very clear and deliberate about the policies that this sets forth and how we perhaps leave um some of our past Transportation Planning efforts in the past um I um as you know I am very sensitive to adding to our Canon of pilot land use policies and the like and so as we go forward I that's just something that I would like us to be um considered of and that probably actually happens in the actual resolution of adoption more so than this document itself um and then the other observation I would have is that um I think this this is an incredibly accessible document like the visuals um it's still 200 Pages um

159you know when we started our a master plan RFP our aspiration was to actually reduce the land use policies across the city to about a 100 pages so um I think that that shows that as we go forward with Master planning our works cut out for us and the way that we can get get all of the pertinent information background policies and examples in a frankly tight accessible um um short manner so that it's easily used by you for future decision-making the city council for future decision making and certainly the community members so um with that um I happy to answer any questions if you have about the process either now or um after the public he all right thank you Mr Leonard um this is now we'll open the public hearing it's an opportunity

160for persons to speak for up to three minutes about the proposed distribution of the an arbor moving together towards Vision zero city of an arbor comprehensive Transportation plan public comment may be made by calling 877 853 5247 and then entering meeting ID 975 1 1994 2176 Mr Mr Leonard will call on those who have digitally raised their hand by pressing star n um you'll hear an automated announcement when you've been allowed to speak move to a quiet area please and mute any television or background noises so that we can hear you please state your name and address for their record no call on theine yet maybe we'll just give it a few moments as there is sometimes delay great and I can see Alex again and no callers so I would say that we're a

161good and if somebody comes in while I'm reading the motion then maybe we'll reopen the public hearing on this um but which is again one of the difficulties of doing this via Zoom rather than in city council but or city Chambers but we're working on um the motion reads the an arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council authorize distribution of the an arbor moving together towards Vision zero city of an arbor comprehensive Transportation plan which is an amendment to the city master plan for review and comment to adjoining jurisdictions and stakeholders in accordance with mcl1 3801 n SE whatever that means the Michigan planning enabling act which is Public Act 33 of 2008 as amended moved by commissioner s seconded by commissioner abon any discussion of the motion commissioner s

162I'll just say thank you this is awesome and I'm very excited to see it move forward so I wish we had a full master plan tether to this too but this is a good step to start those conversations so I just really want to extend my excitement and appreciation to staff uh and the whole team for getting it this far this is great commissioner dish I'm not sure how appropriate it is to actually raise specific questions about the plan itself because we're only voting to authorize distribution which obviously I think we're going to do and I certainly think we should do so if anyone can I I would just say that it's perfectly appropriate if this is a time for review and comment um if um given that I would if if your interest is

163to start that review process nonetheless um as part of that you can raise questions or are items that you'd like to make sure get addressed um that doesn't have to be Tethered to that motion but nonetheless Eli and Stacy and I can make sure that that those comments any anything that comes out of this discussion is recorded as part of the overall comments that are reflected when it comes back to you in its final form okay so then I will say two quick things because I don't want to hold us up and this isn't the which I will preface with just how amazed I was at reading this document it reads beautifully it teaches you a lot about Road design and other things that is really important and it's exciting to look at it because

164some of this is happening in our streets already and I loved the strategy of quick build which is probably about as close as you can legally get to those like Guerilla actions where people put in a crosswalk where they think they need one so um I I just I found this very exciting but I wanted to wrate one um little question and then just I just wanted to call attention on one map to a concern that I have as a representative of Ford one so my little question is I'm surprised to learn that eight out of 10 an arbites live in 20 minute neighborhoods and it might just be because of the density that makes that figure work because I think like almost all of w one except for the slices that are downtown isn't

165a 20 minute neighborhood we are far from grocery stores um and so that just struck me as a as an odd number and it it it might just be that I'm looking at my anecdotal picture and not realizing how many people you know how much density we have in places where people really can walk to a grocery store but you know that's part of the problem with my part of town that um we really don't have an easy way of shopping um like even if I go to Cary toown that's a 50 minute walk well 40 minute walk um and most PE I I do my shopping there actually but most people don't do their grocery shopping there because they have children and they would go broke so um but I'm assuming that my sense

166of that figure I'm assuming that figure is right but can you reassure me that it really is and you didn't make it up um yeah and in part I can hopefully reassure you by saying it it surprised me too um but that that is what the data showed and I would also say that the data is you know maybe somewhat simplistic you know it doesn't factor in personal choice for for one thing um and it's it's looking at available availability of grocery stores um or retail but maybe those aren't the particular places that you need to go so it might not feel like a 20-minute neighborhood well what does it count as a grocery store I mean if we really wanted to be serious about a 20-minute neighborhood you really would have to be able

167to buy the things that you need to live not at a a gas station um you know yeah we we had a few questions about that um since the last draft and so we did include some maps breaking down um on page 114 and 115 to Brett's point this is a long document um of where the 20 where the destinations are and where the areas that can reach that type of destination in a 20 minute walk are so in the dark I'm not seeing that on 114 and 115 I can share my screen again okay you might be looking at an older I might be draft Yeah okay oh yeah sure I am I I don't have that yeah yeah so we did have as I mentioned you know a few comments or questions about

168this particular strategy so we broke down these this series of maps to demonstrate yeah and actually what I've said is true if you if you look at the part that's gray there a lot of that is for Juan so your intuition is right okay thank you those maps are helpful I will make sure that I have an updated draft because I I don't and then the other thing that I wanted to call your attention to um well oh one thing is the graphic that you have about more than onethird of all the space in downtown is allocated for cars is dramatic and beautiful um that is a very long argument summarized by one small picture and that is incredibly helpful but on page on my page 64 you have the proposed bike routes and um

169I'm going I'm I'm thumbing through my thing now I don't know if it's your page 64 anymore but uh I just want to point out to you that if you look at where you stop the purple bike route on Main Street you stop at about Summit um so there is no connection on North m to the proposed bike route along here on River Drive there's actually no way to get to that because we're separated by m114 and uh if you look so it shoots up Summit and then it goes just just north of M14 on Newport Road leaving this entire North uh a northwest corner of the city which is Ward one there um they really don't have good bike connectivity into the city moreover they have lost the Route 33 bus and so that

170that little neighborhood is what I'm going to call now a Transit desert after the idea of food desert um because they they're gon to have to drive basically um and some of them might manage to bike without bike paths but but they don't they don't have a lot of options and so um I am just raising that as a concern that we've created a little you can see it like the world ends before you before the city The Roots end before the city ends and and it is a double whammy for them given that they've lost Route 33 and I don't know if that bus route is going to come back um they currently are served by dial ride but I think if Route 33 if the elimination of Route 33 is permanent they won't

171be able to dial ride anymore because dial ride limits you to using it you have to be able to it has to be able to bring you um to close enough to uh uh an existing uh bus route and with Route 33 gone that won't be true anymore for dialar ride and they're afraid they're going to lose it so I am concerned about that corner of the city and I'm concerned about North Maine which I know might just be a separate project but I want us to all look and see about how failing to do something creative and wonderful with North Main is going to leave some big gaps in our connectivity that we're working so hard to build yeah I can speak to this area um a little bit because I think that we

172we were originally going for a all ages and abilities Network which is um still something that we're we're we're going for but we have had since also added back in proposed routes that we simply think should still be part of the bike network but maybe can't reach that level of a truly um low stress bike routes and so I think we definitely saw that area as a as a gap as well but felt that the infrastructure was not conducive to actually making it that low stress type of facility um but maybe we overlooked it when we added back in just regular proposed bike routes and that be that again let me uh jump in also for a moment and identify that from where the purple line ends uh we have a wonderful new uh element

173of infrastructure the Allen Creek uh burm tunnel and that uh the folks can uh access the border to border Trail which uh I will readily admit is not a and on North Main Street but it does parallel uh North Main Street uh to the extent that um it begins uh to show the way that that caror uh may be serve moving forward now tomorrow night the city park and Washington County Parks is having a public meeting for the Barton bandr uh tunnel project feasibility study that has been part of our non-motorized plan and planning since 2007 so from the standpoint of getting uh from The Summit North Main intersection up to euron River Drive uh although I will agree that today it is a very unsafe move that uh our investments over time and anticipated

174future investments will create a uh all ages and all users network connection using the border-to-border trail and then connecting uh under the railroad up at the North End of the carrier by the river uh so that's perhaps a little more detail than you might be able to uh see on this map uh the only other piece that I will add as to process is that MDOT is contemplating a project on North Main Street uh at this point they moved it out to their FY 2026 and there will be a robust public process to help us identify a multimodal transportation strategy for that car riter uh uh you may be aware that there's an existing city project called the North Main Vision I believe that's still resident on its own website and the intent is to

175coordinate our planning with mot and to achieve the highest level of penetration for U an active Transportation uh component along the North Main carridor so I hope that's helpful I'd be happy to speak with you uh offline um yeah we we should speak offline um there's just one thing I would add which is that yes I I know that the B2B Trail parallels North Main there um and you actually used to be able to legally Cross by crossing over the railroad tracks but now there's a big fence yeah unfortunately get up to Main Street anymore yeah unfortunately it was never legal I think it was more more permitted than uh when the state took possession of that Carrier about four or five years ago now so there was a major change in ownership and it's

176now an m. owned Railroad and it's a public agency um and one of 11 High designated high-speed Railroad carers in the entire country uh they're doing their best to protect that right of way yep no I understand that it's just that the fact that it parallels North Main Street that's fine but you can't get there so there's really you know the the only alternative the only thing that you can do um to get uh along that part of if you really want to be near here on River Drive is to ride on the sidewalk of along North Main Street so so anyway but yeah we can talk more and uh I'm happy I I'll be at that meeting tomorrow night I'm really excited that we're really talking about the bamer tunnel because that would that

177would ease this a lot we lost sah lost the chair oh there she is sorry I don't know what went then but I'm back can I make can I ask a question go for it I'm like there's nobody to call on me I don't know um I just had a question I wanted to Second the the comments about um the accessibility and the comprehensive nature and the excitement about this plan I second all of this those um I had a question more about I guess about process because this is the first time I'm doing the kind of Master Plan process as a commissioner um so if we vote to approve this or vote to recommend that this get distributed um and then there's a period for public comment and then it comes back to us

178is there a what is the means by which we know what the public comment yielded if anything like do we do we receive that public comment or do you filter it and report to us or how does that work oh you're muted muted not my best meeting um during that during that comment period we will actually be aggregating those comments and part of the report back to the Planning Commission will be what was heard over that time period um uh admittedly there might be some of those things that result in changes or adjustments to the plan and there might be other things that we will acknowledge that we receive but don't result in any adjustments to the plan but the short of it is we will we will bring all of uh those comments to

179you and summarize what we heard from what entities Partners the public and ultimately bring you a draft version that we believe is reflective of the aspects of that that we think should or shouldn't have been adjusted and at that point that will be really where you are making the determination that yes this is the final version of the document that we want to guide the land use policy and you said that timeline is about two months y so we would expect this to come back early 2021 um so uh just process-wise um this will probably appear on the city council agenda in early January um then there'll be some distribution after that so probably March I would guess is time frame okay that's all for me commissioner hamers Schmidt what is the process first stakeholder

180engagement and distribution of this well there's been a lot of stakeholder engagement through the process of developing the plan but the the uh act itself requires us to send it to adjacent jurisdictions we send it to all the public utilities we send it to the county and we send it to semog um because this is a transportation plan we to go a step further where we also send it to the Michigan Department of Transportation and the Wason County Road Commission um so so this is an opportunity for all of those stakeholders to see to see that it is also generally an open public comment period as well for any additional feedback to be provided on the plan I guess that was really when I said stakeholders I more meant like resident engagement like how you

181know I know we've had some trouble with like people even just being noticed about things like with our meetings like how are people going to know that this is available for them to comment on and I preface I mean I I'm well you know Brett like I've been doing a lot of like my own soul searching when it comes to like racial Justice and social equity and I want to make sure that like all of the voices in our community and like I acknowledge we are 70 something percent white but like we need to hear from these voices that we typically don't hear from and that might require Outreach in ways that we don't typically do it and so I was just wondering if there's any sort of plan beyond the like I don't know

182posting it on next door or like whatever the traditional things are like here it is here's a survey this is a really big important plan that impacts everyone that lives here or that wants to live here yeah and I um I think those are great questions I'll I'll start and then if Stacy and Nei want to jump in it all um and one of the aspects of of that it doesn't answer the question of who we've heard from but Equity is a big component of this Transportation plan as well and so um I personally am pretty proud to be part of a a community that is starting to reflect that in their policy documents be it Transportation or climate and you name it and so um but um apart from that this um Eli and

183particularly some of the partners that he works with directly in in his and his team in the public services division um are actually uh the creators and sort of gurus of something called the city's public engagement toolkit um which actually has a lot of resources that um helps to guide us to make sure that we are reaching out to those populations and communities that maybe we don't hear from typically um so um I would um suspect that that was that had happened more successfully um on this this project because of the integration of that work into this team um that tool is available to everybody in the city but um I think um just the sheer number of projects that are being done out of Public Services on transportation and capital they are using that

184tool most often and so I guess I'll stop there Eli and Stacy if you want to speak to do you feel like we were successful in that regard or do you think that there's some more opportunity in that regard well I'm going to uh jump in and say that there's always room for improvement and that um our sensitivity to this uh particular engagement uh aspect uh was uh important from the get-go um we did uh take at least one proactive step and uh we hosted a public open house at the peace um neighborhood community Center and so um that is uh one uh specific and direct uh aspect that we've added to our uh community outreach uh beyond that uh we did go through an exercise of identifying stakeholders and then creating contact lists where

185uh it's through our Communications office that um most of the communications that we do as a city now are broadcast email or uh we do have uh through the Communications Department the ability to do uh social media blast and to the extent that uh through the development of our uh public engagement toolkit that members of a variety of neighborhoods have identified themselves um we have added those to our stakeholder list and have been receiving the mail outs um I'm really proud to say and I can't speak to the diversity of the engagement but I know that uh through the Sam Schwarz team Stacy and her colleagues had constructed several uh online uh engagement opportunities and we literally touched thousands of people that we had never uh seen before in our transportation planning uh processes so

186to the extent that um I can't give you uh the specific specific um communities that have engaged with us I can assure you that we have used uh our best ability to reach out and that there are some um I know our Communications and public engagement staff have been attending our meetings and we have um the um questionnaires for people to fill out as to identification of a variety the personality uh person personal character istics and so there is some reporting of that uh but I as I said at the onset of this response uh we really need to continue to work harder to do a better job of reaching out uh to the full array of our community I would just add we can follow up on that um with that distribution you know

187there is a a network of folks that have expressed interest in following this process that Eli and his team have we have our normal uh methods of distributions through our you know go delivery service we can do social media and the like I I would just say that oftentimes when we my experience is when we take on those broad um uh notification we get very similar patterns of response so um it's it's it can be challenging probably because the the way to do that is to do a much more targeted narrow distribution and solicitation which isn't always the best approach either because it really is intended to be a CommunityWide but um that's something that we can certainly report out about about how we made that notification aware who it was shared with and we

188can include that with the actual feedback that's received as well okay yeah I mean I think like to me and again I'm not an expert I'm learning about this too um I appreciate like that you guys are trying to do a lot more and I appreciate that you recognize that you can always do better um yeah I think like like an approach where it is still the the broad CommunityWide approach but also like if there's an opportunity for targeted like in my opinion like I think we should be trying to oversample some of the populations and I guess I'm specifically thinking like black residents that we don't necessarily hear from like if there's churches or or something that we could go out to I I just you know I I also really appreciate that Equity

189is like very strong throughout this plan but you know I think that it's important to have that perspective from like black residents and other residents of color because they just have different lived experiences than like no offense to any of us at the table here but like you know we planning Commissioners and white consultants and White City staff um so even just like having having some some different eyes on this to make sure that like this is saying the right things and like communicating what we want to do like I think we all have this intent I think it's just important to make sure that it's kind of triangulated and maybe there's a little bit of room for improvement kind of along those same lines like out of the 22 um strategies or whatever you

190called them like I noticed that engagement is number 20 and I'm not assuming that any of these are in priority order but it sent a bit of a message to me that like Community engagement which I think needs to happen in like a lot of these different strategies is like so far down that list so I don't know if that that was intentional or not but like if there's an opportunity to raise that up that might just send more of a message that like we're serious about this we're serious about doing as good of a job that we can engaging as many people as we can because like literally this plan is touching like streets everywhere in the city I don't know if if Eli you want to comment on that um but I would

191say for the engagement I mean we I saw it as being important and that's why it is one of those 22 Key strategies and so and I they they are not in order of priority um and it's just to say that that is a key strategy and it shouldn't be looked at as not something that's not important and I think it's also a matter of I think the city probably does public engagement in all of its projects um any right now you know it's not like we're saying you should do public engagement where you're not already so it's a matter of um adjusting the way that engagement is done um and so I guess that there was no specific thought into it being number 20 and not number five well maybe it can be reordered

192I mean like we we just don't know how people are going to view these people could view them as like a priority even though they're not intended to be a priority I don't know maybe I'm the only one that feels this way but if if I would just like if there is a possibility to try to move it up and make it really clear that like this is It's one of 22 whiches makes it important but it's like you know number two of 22 it's just sort of the message that it it's like the me and it's just the messaging of it I think um I would wanted to add to to what Eli was saying about engagement that the community Advisory Group that we convened was um I don't know if this is the

193right term to use but kind of a quasi public meeting every time I mean it it was open to the public did have public members attend those meetings and it was a pretty broad group as it in terms of the membership as well the core membership of that group so we did get pretty broad um representation through that in addition to the Outreach that Eli talked about I was going to ask about that advisory committee and if you had a sense of like the demographics of the people that participated or if it wasn't necessarily a set group we have the list of groups and people who were involved that we could send you okay I don't mean to I feel like I'm almost harping on this I just like I think these are conversations that

194we don't have they're not like always comfortable to have and it's just important for us to have them um I actually I had a couple like just really minor things that I noticed as I was well not really minor but like on page 56 when we talk about the sidewalks and like the funding sources I think it was written before the election and we passed that proposition so I wonder if that should be updated um similarly on page 27 there's a box about healthy streets but didn't healthy streets end and I don't know if there would be any data like from that I think it said something about like we're going to be collecting data but maybe there's actually data that could be included in that box since the program I think is like basically

195over I think the sidewalk one has already been updated and so the newest version does reflect the oh okay awesome I don't know I'm looking old version too so and with regard to the healthy streets uh there earlier this afternoon I was engaged in a conversation with uh our staff and the DDA staff there is a report a technical report being prepared for Council and that will give us the background information to uh add a little more flesh on the bones in that section right um and just one thing on like the the I liked the section about like the the mode sharing or the ride sharing like scooters and bike sharing and all of that like I'm wondering if maybe this doesn't have to be added to the plan necessarily but I'm just I

196was thinking through like there's a there was a lot of like discussion of equity in those sections and I'm wondering if we should be looking into options for people that don't have credit cards like and I don't know I think there are Bike Share systems across the country where you can there's ways to like pay cash for cards but just like sort of something to keep in mind like as we're thinking about Equity like there are people that don't have access to credit cards and credit cards are usually like what you need to like the apps or whatever like maybe there are alternatives that other cities have been doing um to allow people without credit cards to access those modes I would love to see more Bike Share in the city it's very exciting um

197and then one more thing and then I'll stop talking the name where it says like moving together towards Vision zero which is great but then when I read it says there's like these two main like critical goals the vision zero and carbon neutrality and they're presented as like equal critical goals so I'm wondering why the name just says moving together towards Vision zero and we don't have carbon neutrality if it is in fact as important as Vision zero in the name sorry well no appreciate the observation and when we began to scope out this trans a plan update the uh Vision zero safety emphasis uh was uh Paramount uh as we were moving along in our plan uh recruiting Sam Schwarz getting the committee set up getting the process started uh the city found a

198r renewed interest in adoped an a20 the whole carbon neutrality and I'm not going to Value one as higher than the other but I think the importance of co-mingling the concepts that we care about human health and safety and we care about environmental health and safety and the a20 stands on its own uh within its framework uh but in the same way that Brett's talking about uh other as aspects of the master plan uh dealing with land use the transportation is one of the important elements in the a20 so we kind of Incorporated it in order to have that crossover and correlation between Vision zero and human health and safety and the uh a20 which is about human health and safety as well but it's also more about uh community and environmental health so there's

199a crossover I hope it's not conf confusing this is the first that I'm hearing a question of why the co-branding uh but it's really um the primary emphasis uh has been the movement towards the vision zero but we clearly acknowledge respect and reflect the transportation role in achieving carbon neutrality maybe there's a way to even say that I mean maybe I'm the only person that's going to be confused by this but like I I think the title's great let me just say that I think and the only reason I feel like I'm saying like I'm saying some pretty nitpicky stuff you guys did an amazing job with this like it is like everybody else has said like it it's just so easy to read it's so well laid out it looks beautiful so it's awesome

200um maybe there's a way to like reward that like intro to sort of say exactly Eli what you just said like this plan like you know these are sort of equal things like this plan is very focused on like that Vision zero emphasis but we're folding in because we have this a20 and you said it way better than I'm saying it but just so you know people maybe nobody else would think this but I read those as like the two key things and I was like wait isn't it just called moving together towards Vision zero I don't know all right I'm gonna I'm going to stop talking good job guys well thank you for that that feedback and uh I'll get together with Stacy and her team we'll figure out if there's a way to

201uh frame it so that it it flows more smoothly together I think if we could make it longer that'd be great at least 20 longer the title too I mean title could be long try not to make the title it's a good Snappy title anybody else commissioner dish this is for like I just want to inject a tiny word of caution I totally get what I mean I appreciate everything you said commissioner hamers when the a20 plan was debated people claimed that the land use elements of that plan were a sneaky agenda to make everything about land use and so I actually think that we want to be I I appreciate the subtlety with which this plan injected some land use stuff and did it quietly because I think that that is likely to be

202controversial and I think there is broader agreement around Vision zero and people when they think about Transportation they think about Vision zero and they don't actually they don't necess not everyone wants to make the connection that we're making here and that the plan actually makes between transportation and land use and I think we want to be careful there I think I think we want to succeed with that connection and so I'm not sure that we want to flag it too much honestly because I think we're going to get from the usual suspect the kind of push back that a20 saw and if we can be sneaky it's better well I shouldn't say that this is being watched by people but um you know if we can be uh yeah let me well anyway the damage

203is done it's it's only 10 o'clock you know everyone's totally awake and watching planing commission now but you know if we just if we can just be careful about not making everything sound like like it's all about putting six story buildings in everyone's neighborhood in an arbor it will go over better and um but I do agree that it is confusing to me that we have a vision zero plan and an A2 zero plan I think we got too many zeros going somehow but I think we're stuck with it and that actually was one of the comments that I was going to make which kind of is also talking about the role of Community engagement and public engagement that commissioner hamers Schmidt was talking about I think one of the things that be controversial that

204we has been on our work list for a long time that we haven't really taken up because we knew it would be controversial is talking about parking it's no it's no secret now like you didn't you didn't Spill the Beans commissioner dish on that um we talked about it at when we talked about our work plan before that there has been robust engage M over this plan and if there can be additional robust engagement in the next you know couple of months before it is brought before us for a public hearing for adoption and that what is in this plan calls for the same thing that so many of our previous plans have called for but it's much more recent right I think that that actually right now what's drafted in there is that by

2052022 like not in 2022 by 2022 would um remove parking minimums Citywide and establish parking maximums downtown I I I don't want to sneak that in there I want to make sure that people if there are people watching us that they know that because I want to get that stuff out now so that we can actually once we adopt this plan very quickly move to implement it and so to some extent rather than having another process that comes that includes more public engagement if there is a lot of public engagement here and if we're able to do those things very close together which I appreciate Mr Leonard you you know being flexible with us in allowing our work plan to grow but I think in this way we can do more when we say we've

206just had a plan or we've just you know we've just had a robust public engagement process and so making sure to again to commissioner hamers Schmid's point that it actually is inclusive and is hearing lots of voices because it's better to hear it now than when we're trying to actually implement it in my personal opinion I don't want to sync your pro I don't want to sync your plan but I I think that there's lots in here and I think the benefit of this plan is to show how they all work together and it's thing like there there are benefits of getting people out of their cars right like not just so that somebody's car doesn't you know I mean there's just benefits in all of that so commission oh not commissioner Mr Leonard I

207just I just wan to I just want to be clear the purpose of this is to you know the the plan is developed the the goals are developed so this stage is really about um this is what we intend to adopt that's not to say that there aren't opportunities for tweaks and adjustments but um and I I don't say that because I think what I'm hearing that things are out out of Base but um the to to a large extent the community Eng Community engagement has occurred on why these are the things that are in the document why these are the 22 strategies not in order um that are most resonant with our community and reflects the values that our community told the drafters of this document these are the things by which you should

208measure what goes in the plan and what is prioritized in the plan so I just I just want to be clear that when we're talking about this period of time um it is um we will we will listen to everything of course but at this time we have heard from the community Through engagement and this this is our reflection back to them and so um so the whether whether you are concerned about that being da D it or not um that you know I I don't want to say it doesn't matter it doesn't matter because those are the values that came out of our community conversations those that's why they're here it's not you know that's that's why these are the things in that plan that we are now presenting to say this is what

209we heard um and this is what we should get to work on so I I just want to sort of set that stage it's not to say that there's uh that we can't be more successful always in engagement and during this period of time we can share the opportunity for that same wide engagement to say that's where we are and make sure that everybody's afforded that opportunity and can try and over a for be more targeted to make sure that we're providing that opportunity where we think is best from an equity perspective but I just want to set the stage that whether it whether we desire it to be out in front or not to be out in front is somewhat irrelevant now the task before you in a couple of months and and at

210this preliminary stag is yeah these the things that the community told us resonate with um us as the planning commission our other Master land use policies let's let's go so great and yeah and I wanted to like and what you talked about in terms of the engagement and bringing that forward you know kind of quantifying that having that list I think that that's going to help us be able to say like listen we got a lot of feedback or we got a lot of input in this this is not like us picking it out of thin air so I yes thank you for highlighting that um I one more thing commissioner s is that okay and then um and so the other only other thing is thank you Mr Leonard for highlighting and this is

211what I would challenge um Mr Cooper and Miss mein to think about too is what we should get rid of not just making this additive to our Tome of master plan but like what should this is it super seed is that the right word like what does this replace entirely like can we what can we pitch out um because just adding more is not helpful I think so thank you for thinking about that and when when we see this again in three months time four months time having that um so that we can do those things together and not and it doesn't get lost will be really really beneficial I think you mean what whe existing plans is it yeah yeah I think it's you know it's useful I really like that you put this

212in historical context and like all of the things that we've done but at some point there are some things like Visions have changed right like this Builds on itself and it and it highlights that we've made like that we have made tremendous strides Mr Cooper and Company have made tremendous strides in implementing those but they're you know there may be some elements that need to go and I would say too and you guys know this a little bit better maybe this Mr Leonard links to our overall Master planning some of those are maybe from past Transportation plans but some of them May within not specific Transportation plans but maybe other elements of our master plan right that are that call for for example parking minimums rather than parking maximums so commissioner so thanks I just

213want to yeah like highlight that there will I agree like we're at the point of like implementing like adopting this thing but there will be also engagement going forward because master plan is then the recommendations to become ordinances and we have to make the ordinance changes and that requires additional engagement and so I think like we're at this engagement education engagement step and the education and the Outreach to let the community know that this is an empowering document to give more people access to areas in the city is huge and like as Commissioners like we've got the city to do a lot of dis animation and their tools and social media those things but as Commissioners and having board Representatives we are all in distributed within our own communities to share this and reach out

214to other rep you know community members that might not be at the table right now that we can share and say this is what's coming are you even aware of this do you know that this is coming on board these are the ordinances that will probably be impacted and changed by this in the future we encourage you to be a like a participatory engagement in those Ord exchange discussions in the future too so I think you know there's kind of AAL pattern still moving forward so I just want to say that in terms of all of us doing our part as Commissioners to continue that conversation as this gets adopted to um so yeah I like I think it communicates really well but it's it's the dissemination that we can all do to really kind

215of help it move forward um in that regard so yeah I get I there's one other thing I don't know I I'm just really excited to kind of see it happen I'll just keep saying it but um yeah I think that's it we're gonna see ordinances change so that's the next step but as a master planning document I agree we get a lot of feedback right now master plan documents as X Y and Z until its ordinance it's got to take that next step for a lot of those projects so there there there's more work to do as well on our part so thanks for getting it this far yeah I just want to um kind of echo not only in this Transportation Planning realm is it about ordinances rules and regulations but this also

216creates a um set of expectations for future Transportation uh improvements and projects so that this is a multifaceted um type of um master plan element there are the pieces that will uh become policy rules regulations ordinances of the type but there's also uh projects and each one of those implementation activities does have as you clearly and correctly noted has its own individual uh engagement process so we'll continue um you know after the plan goes through these two rounds of you know first uh stakeholder engagement and then finally the final step towards final op option that's the beginning of the plan implementation it's not the end of planning so uh there's a lot more room uh for us to go and grow in our Outreach in our communication and in the inter relationship between the various

217elements whether it's a20 whether it's land use uh planning and and so forth so thank you for your uh insightful input and I think that you're um clear on a path to understand that this is merely a point in time it's an important point in time and I appreciate the enthusiasm and excitement about it but we've got so much more ahead of us anything else Mr Leonard I think we're ready to [Applause] vote commissioner moin yes commissioner sve yes commissioner abon yes commissioner hamers Schmid yes commissioner dish yes commissioner Mills yes on to city council thank you very much we'll see you guys in few months okay thank you I appreciate it thanks good all right item 11 public comment this is the final opportunity for persons to speak for up to three minutes about

218any item of Interest public comment may be made by calling 877 853 5247 and then entering meeting ID 9751 1994 2176 City staff will select callers that have raised their hand calling on You by the last three digits of your telephone number in order to raise your hand after dialing into the meeting please press star on your phone you'll hear an automated announcement that the host is allowing you to speak Mr Leonard will tell you that too and please state your name and address at the beginning of your comments there is the lag with TV sometimes but I don't see anyone calling in it's looking sparse I'm going to propose that we move on to commission proposed business because I do have something as I'll keep an eye out yeah I have something but does

219anyone else have anything that they want to bring up okay Mr Leonard well I just want to um maybe put a bit of a point on um the last conversation and a bit of a challenge to us as we take on the um aspects that we are going to be leading that comes out of this plan or the other um I think it's an opportunity for us to set the example that we we want for that engagement how it looks so I I would just um ask you to um be partners in that to make sure that you know that um if NE if I hope you don't need to challenge me but I hope it's to guide me and help help help us all succeed in that endeavor so um so um you know

220I think um engagement is critical and it's hard and as hard as you try you can look back on it and feel that you are still lacking something um so um so that's just to say that um I I based on our work work program I think there's a lot of support um and alignment for us to really think about that creatively um as we start taking on the aspects that we are going to be leading great there's two items that I would propose um and both of them came up tonight um the one which is regulating based on bedrooms right rather than based on units or square footage right like in in our in our our districts it doesn't you know you're limited if you want to build Studios you get six Studios if

221you want six bedrooms you get six bedrooms if you're looking to maximize you know your rents generally you're going to build the bigger things and that comes up with parking but I think that transcends parking even if we change parking it doesn't change that idea um and so I would propose not that we change our existing work plan but I would propose that we um Mr Leonard make a a comment to add to that orange table of potential future projects that that doesn't get lost because that's not on there right now or included we don't have we don't vote on these things no no so what I what I would probably do is just add it um added in there as a notation um for our use and then um it would we could either

222take action on it or it would just appear with a notation and become basically more formal the next time you would prove the work the I think that's good and if and what I would suggest is that maybe if we can put the address for this proposal to jog our memory about why this was it might make it work a little bit easier and then the other one is and I asked Mr Leonard about this before because I went back to our work plan to say what happened to r4c r2a r4c in our work plan and we did take it off it had been on there forever and we took it off and I couldn't remember why and it could have been because it was hard and it was hard because of parking and if

223we're already addressing parking then there are still some other elements of R4 C r2a r4c that are less controversial if the parking thing is no longer the issue and that is that I want to P draw your attention to the fact that the project tonight that we heard only works like one of those Pro one of those lots is non-conforming um it doesn't it's not wide enough it doesn't have enough like lot Frontage and it also doesn't have enough square footage so the only thing that they could develop there is a single unit like that's and that it's non-conforming is not a weird thing for itself there's like 80% of the of the Lots in that zoning District which is in a lot of places in the city are non-conforming so the only way they

224can build anything is to combine lots and then you get to the like multiplier threshold so like pretty much you're going to see four unit buildings at least when you're combining units you combining LS you may well see more than that so that's the thing that that won't be fixed by fixing the parking but that I think we need to address is that non-conformity because it is a multifam you uh multif family District but so many of the Lots only allow for a single family dwelling and that's problematic so I would want to add that back onto the table at least with again this note and then again sequentially I think personally taking care of the parking stuff first may make that discussion easier but it's I'm just going to tell you it's not going

225to solve the whole thing because there's you know yeah commissioner s and then commissioner dish I guess I'm just curious about that in the circular motion of like following back on the recommendation about small projects and one of the recommendations is a threshold for not site plan for maybe six units and if we look at that and we get response from City Council of yes look at that and if r4c and six units now doesn't require site planning what would that look like if it's because if it doesn't requ site planning I don't think it would help too much because even when you're not site planning you have to meet area height placement requirements so if the lot is still non-conforming and if the ordinance still says if you are less than a 8,500 foot

226lot or whatever that size is that you can only do single family um not going through the site plan isn't going to help any of that help help the lot size situation I guess that's just kind of what I'm look you know like how many levers to get to it and are there some things that are in the work plan right now that'll get us a step closer but it's not going to get us far enough I'm just trying to figure out how to use the work plan as is to start looking at it without adding another big chunk so that's all accessory I was I would just say adus is one of the places right like they're not allowed right now in those multif family dwellings that was or unit districts but they could

227be for those that only can have single family houses is that fair Mr Leonard well yes I I was I I was going to be more resistant to Y all and remind you that we've got adus that you want to tackle first we've got Transit oriented development that is due to city council by next June um we're going to be taking on site plan review requirements um um and the c1a C1 AR I think I feel like we're pretty well set on that but we still have to go through that process of course um so I just you know I I I just want to set the realist realistic expectation that um I I'm somewhere in the middle I think that there are a lot of things that would relate to those issues um at

228the same time I see that you've put a lot of things as priority first um so I I would see it personally sort of added to the work plan for now but probably not a lot of expectation that we're probably probably going to have to tackle some of these other things first and that might be okay to see what does the landscape look like for that after youve looked at adus after you looked at site plan review process maybe even started some conversations about uh residential zoning um so um perfectly great to add it on there I just want to I just want to caution you that I I think it will be challenging for me to support it um quickly and I think it'll be challenging for you as a commission to take it

229out quickly I just want to tuck in there because what um commissioner s just said raised the point it was actually about the first point which is on the do we regulate by units or by bedrooms that comes up it that's gonna that's linked to the what's the threshold for the small projects it was not that was not originally though something that resonated with the commission as something you wanted to widely apply so right something we could consider for sure I'm just thinking I'm just saying I think we put it down we it we don't put it elevate it but it may well come back that it's a hang up because a small unit six Studios is quite a different impact than six six bedrooms in terms of what's a small project for a neor

230I mean what we saw tonight was and where that you know um where that's coming from is our occupancy right we're regulating by occupancy and so I think what you're seeing there is a reflection of marketability to some extent not that I profess to know all the ins and out of that market but we maximize you can have six people in a unit in that zoning district and so to maximize the value of that it's much more valuable if every one of those six people have a bedroom and a bathroom and you know and in this case a choice of kitchens so um so I but I I would you know that has other to I'm not saying that we don't look at it but that has other um parameters then we have to look

231at how we might not be regulating occupancy by dwelling unit then anymore so it it just it might have other sort of veins in our code that we need to consider as well commissioner dish sorry I just wanted to say that you read my mind Sarah because I wanted to bring up lot size um and so the issue of r2a and I'd already talked about this with Mr Leonard who did warn me that we probably can't put it on our near-term work plan but I think it is something that we need to look at because in places where you have R2 zoning where you could do a multif family thing but you but the minimum lot your house is on a minimum lot size that won't actually let you what you're going to do because

232now the market will reward you is you're going to knock that little sucker down and you're going to build a 3,000 to 4,000 square foot single family which is really not the direction that we want to go and so this is something that we do need to move on because people are there is now because of the way prices have gone it's really a very different scene than it was 12 years ago there is incentive to redevelop these properties and so um you know adus might be part of what relieves some of this pressure hey slap an Adu on there and hey put some solar on it we might give you a tiff but uh or make it affordable we'll give you a tip for that or do both and we'll give you a gold

233watch so um but I I do think this is something that we actually need to look at and I'm just delighted that you brought it up because I was going to and took the words out of that not well then maybe it needs to move from the low low to like it's higher up if there's multiple of us it's honestly that's the thing though that has been on for the last six years like and that was that was going on well before the six years like commissioner Woods probably could have told us when it was you know when it was first brought up it's been on there forever but again it's the par a lot of it is the parking is that fair Alex do you think like and so if that is if that

234is alleviated from another action that is not specific to those districts but that is Citywide as the proposed Transportation plan calls for that changes things in my mind I see commissioner milstein and just a comment uh commissioner DH brought up a great point you know in 12 years uh look at how much things have changed with regards to lot size where knocking down um and building is you know that's something that we have to be very cognizant of because even six years ago H maybe let's just say 10 years ago we wouldn't have thought that that would ever happen and then look at it now so I think that's something that we have to be cent of I think it's you know from um I read this is now years ago when I I read

235this maybe uh when I first started on Planning Commission um the work group that was set up a citizen work group that was set up um in regards to r4c r2a they did a ton of work and I the report like they met I think for a year solid if not close to two years years and in the end they weren't able to figure out how to make it work um yeah I think they came out with a couple of proposals but it's such a huge undertaking um and I think part of the reason why it's been our work plan is because I I think this is more than just us taking it on as a Planning Commission or staff this is maybe a uh something that a consultant actually needs to take on and

236see it from different lens because it is such a huge project um I just don't know how it could be accomplished by um you know we can nibble at it here and there but I as an a Hu as an undertaking as a whole that's such a huge project do you think it makes sense to take they've always been LED together is is there logic in sort of separating r2a versus r4c I know that there might be some similar issues but I personally I think r4c is the one that needs to be dealt with the first and I think maybe that was there was some maybe they were trying to accomplish um or couldn't accomplish uh in both but I would say r4c would be the biggest one that I would go after um first

237um and then just absolutely developing ordinances on the Fly here without thinking about them fully um a lot of our a lot of our ordinance defaults to if if not some standard you can do single family right what's your initial reaction to if that was if not you can do a duplex all right two yeses four I'm not sure yeah it's after 10 so I'm new that that's yeah I was just I was just thinking like that it would be sort of nibbling around the edges of r4c basically where you could increase the potential viability and economic model force a lot of non-conforming properties at least by potentially doubling them from a single unit to two units um likewise and it'd be a relatively Quick Fix in the R2 districts that'd be a little bit

238different it probably just have the effect of eliminating minimum oide in the r two districts um that but I I appreciate what you're saying we've seen a lot more r4c stuff of course than we and I would say than even we've seen sort of r2a permits which aren't going to come to you typically commissioner milstein and then commissioner s um so I feel like you know we have r4c um which is in the middle of all these other things that we want to accomplish on our work plan I feel a lot of it goes around the r4c what what's the chances Brett that we that the city can hire a consultant to help us with this you know to hopefully tackle our forc but then also help us with some of these other things that

239we have around that just because yeah I'll probably be in a better position to respond to that in a couple months once the budget's process gets started my initial thought is based on the fact that um the master plan is did not go forward because of financial impacts to the city because of covid um you know parking revenues utility use Revenue those are still very much real factors that the city is going to be reconciling with I'm guessing on coming years I don't I'm not speaking to that because the projections I don't know those yet but in the next couple months I frankly will be getting sort of the direction of what I should be doing with my budget if that is you know um you know try to keep your um increase try to

240be flat or increase less than inflation I would say it's possible if that directive is based on other circumstances here we actually need to start looking at how we're going to cut costs I would say it's going to probably be pretty unlikely commissioner s I think the the the conversation about adus being on the work plan and then the idea of duplexing and what that means in terms of right like what isn't attached to Adu and the policy behind an Adu versus a duplex and even when we talk about Equity ownership accessibility to housing I think they're very similar actually maybe it's a working session to just even work through the nuances of what is an attached Adu a detached Adu and a default to a duplex in terms of like if we're going to

241look at that and maybe adus take a step back because we could solve density on these sites in a in a different way and I now like when you say duplex it just makes me think about adus and like the idea of r4c and r2a and what gets us more density like what's the reason behind Adu policy that we're looking at and so what what's the goal of Adu policy what's the goal of fixing r2a and r4c policy like what's the overall goal of both of those things and which which one is going to get us towards that goal faster and more successfully so when you talk about duplex I I think it's hard to kind of unpack those things on the fly but I think it's worth actually taking a look at Adu against

242the conversation we're having tonight yeah I would just as a reminder you've already proferred a recommendation to council to add adus back into the r2a district so that is an incremental step to provide that as a tool um I totally agree with what you're saying it probably make some sense and I look forward we can start that conversation actually next week about how we want to have that conversation with the community um but um I would say that the my initial thought is the nice thing about adus is it it goes it's a nice mexus of some sustainability access to Transit using in existing infrastructure smaller household sizes and affordability by the sheer restriction on on the size of the unit I don't think that that automatically translates to duplexes and R4 C's um but

243it meets some of those goals right so um but I totally agree I think it's worth the sort of lay map those out to see how um they are all in sort of the same they're in the same sphere of potential I would say all right so I'm adding them both to the work plan with sort of little italics that this has not been formally adopted yet or I might just bring it back to you and you can amend it either way and again if you can put the the address yeah I kind of feel like anything we add in should have some kind of reference because it sticks around sometimes for a long time um great anything else and I just want to go back to the question about a consultant I don't say

244that to say that we shouldn't investigate it I think it's always worthwhile I mean if if if it's deemed to be of a high value and a priority I it's worth exploring so I don't I don't say that but I'm just trying to frame sort of what I see is sort of the the easy path or the more difficult path great um I will entertain a motion to adjourn then it's not one o'clock yet mov by commissioner milin seconded by commissioner sve all in favor please say I or I raise a hand I I great that's everybody have a good night folks we are jour e