Ann Arbor Energy Commission 8-11-20

001our subcommittees i guess and i'd like to call this meeting to order and unfortunately you have to listen to me again read a protocol that relates to all of the cities right now and all of the meetings um so welcome to the august 11th electronic meeting of the energy commission this meeting is in accordance with executive orders from the governor to affect social distancing and mitigate the spread of the covid19 virus we intend to conduct this meeting similar to an in-person meeting however be patient if there are technical issues please comment our public comment will be a telephone only to speak during any of the public comment opportunities please call 1-888-788-0099 and enter the meeting id nine two four five seven nine six eight no excuse me nine eight two three nine eight two nine

002this information is also available on the agenda in the public notices section of the city website and the broadcast of this meeting on ctn channel 16 a t channel 99 and online at www.a2gov.org backslash watch ctn so thanks for bearing with me um josh could you go ahead and do the roll call yeah sure uh chair mursky here soon to be commissioner kerber here uh let's see a commissioner zacker here commissioner cleavy here commissioner levine um all right commissioner schreiberg here because her george yeah commissioner colin garcia carlene you need to unmute here commissioner hook him nope and he might be are you with us phone so i'm not sure okay i see i'm here um let's move on so uh commissioner mccoy uh commissioner let's see uh singleton yep julian we don't hear you

003yeah and it seems like you're unmuted so it might be not you're not mute anymore but we don't hear you there now we go all right uh and i think uh commissioner zucker did i already get you yep okay i think that's what's that did you get mark uh commissioner cleavy you already got me sorry the names are kind of moving around on the list so did i get everyone i got everyone yes so this is a working session so we really aren't worried about a quorum um but nevertheless um it's important that we know who's here um so what i'd like to do first is in addition to a roll call we thought we would do um a bit of an introduction to each other because we have um two new youth commissioners we

004also said because it's a working session um and we anticipate larry will be joining the commission um he's already been dominated by the mayor and he will be voted on next monday we thought we'd include him and allow him to participate so it's good to get to know each other a little bit and so carlene is going to take it from here and do something in terms of introductions [Music] alrighty then so uh john and i talked for a little bit and uh we decided to that it would be good um to do something a little bit different to start out this this month's meeting and um so we're going to do an icebreaker we i don't think we've done like a like a an icebreaker for a little while here and since we have

005new members both uh on the commission as far as and as also with the staff from the city i think it would be fun for us to um get to know each other a little bit differently and from from a fun perspective this is a very serious group here we're pretty hard-working we're really dedicated and passionate and we're absolutely determined to make a massive difference in our city and on planet earth um and sometimes it's a good idea just to smile a little bit and get to know each other so so as a commission we've undergone a number of changes in a relatively short period of time uh like i said we have new members we have new officers um we have a new meeting platform we're used to meeting in the in the council

006chambers and now we're relegated to meeting via zoom um and we also have a significant new charge which is helping the city to reach our a20 goals so for my first meeting as vice chair i offered uh to john to lead the introduction portion of our meeting tonight specifically because it is a working session and we do have a little bit of leeway in how we conduct our meeting so as an icebreaker um here's what we're going to do there are four questions each person will choose one of the questions to ask a fellow commissioner of his or her choice so you can choose um only someone who has not answered a question yet and we will each have like 16 and 90 seconds so we got to keep this short because we have a

007lot of us on here and um and we have you know a full agenda also so 60 to 90 seconds to answer the question that was asked of us and after we have answered our question then we the person who has answered the question will pick a commissioner and ask him her or her one of the four questions so uh josh would you mind putting up the um that powerpoint that has the questions yes let me uh and i'm going to demonstrate i'll start um and then and and demonstrate so the four questions are what's your favorite place your favorite place of all places that you've traveled uh question number two is what is one thing not related to your being an energy commissioner that you would like us to know about you uh then

008there is what sport would you compete in if you're in the olympics then the last question is what is your favorite time of the day and why so there's kind of a smattering some variety of options here and i'm going to start i'm going to ask i'm going to ask john um what is your favorite time of the day and why john so i just want to interrupt really quick it looks like bridget's in the participants attendees area need to let her in then maybe thanks amber good catch amber we can't let bridgette not participate on this okay are you there she should have just joined see bridget can you can you hear us she's muted and her um camera is off according to the participant list it does look like she is now a

009panelist so that's that's a good thing okay okay i'm here zoom made me reload the app and it's different than the last time i was on it on my phone sorry that's all right welcome bridget thanks remember bridget we're doing a little bit of icebreaker well we'll let you figure it out um we haven't uh really done a whole lot so carlene asked one of the questions here of me here and what's my favorite time of day um i'm generally a morning person so i like to get up in the morning it's quiet it's peaceful i generally get up in the morning and i go from my bedroom to our study and i look through email i read um the header news um and then i moved to our kitchen and have breakfast where i

010generally read the new york times and also look at other news feeds at this time of year we have a little florida room off of our kitchen so i'll often sit out there and um do those same things i'm eating breakfast and reading in the morning and that's a nice way to sort of ramp up the day for me my wife is more someone who likes to stay up late and get up late so it's something where i have time to myself and she can get an extra snooze in so morning is a nice time of day for me okay so now you get to pick a commissioner and ask them a question um i would like to ask commissioner zucker um what is one thing not related to you being an energy commissioner that

011you would like us to know about you and with that we're gonna um hopefully be able to ask you all kinds of other follow-up questions oh great um or whatever else someday yep um and just for everyone uh zocker is the last it's like soccer with a z so that's right um so one thing about me so um i guess just kind of i'm really into um kind of gardening and and organic sustainable gardening that's kind of really what kind of led me down this path of getting into more and more sustainable stuff so uh got about i don't know five different ways of composting including worms in the basement and uh some like eight foot tall tomato plants that are having a bumper crop of tomatoes this year and i also highly recommend uh

012planting clover in with your grass although the the rabbits seem to really really love it and hopefully it'll keep them away from the hostas and the other things although our dog likes to bark at them and she blew out her acl i'm seeing a rabbit last year so that's about two thousand dollars to fix um but yeah that i mean that kind of got me down the path you know native plants have a rain garden a lot of native plants and little bee houses and all that all that good stuff so um we already have something didn't talk about other than rivier yep next next meeting expect some follow-up questions all right yep your turn jay let's see here um we will go to how about one of the new commissioners julian we'll give you

013the uh olympic sports question one olympic sport it would definitely be the biathlon um because i just think that's the coolest sport in the whole olympics you have to be really talented at both um marksmanship and skiing which i think is really fun and cool and biathletes um just tend to be really cool people the ones that i've met so that's definitely what i would choose um as for the next person i have to ask a question i'm not really sure names to faces yet but looking at the participant list i would like to choose um mike um i'm not 100 sure to say your last name but the shredder and i'd like to ask um what is your favorite place of all places you've traveled right and bonus points for actually pronouncing my name

014right which most people don't schreiberg so thank you julian um favorite places that i've traveled i mean unfortunately i'm a big backpacker and i had the opportunity two years ago to go to nepal and travel to the base camp of mount annapurna so it was a two-week trek and and um that was just an extraordinary uh sort of cultural and spiritual and physical experience all all wrapped in one i did it with my uh my uncle and my um my cousin so it was also a good family family experience my uncle is my mentor who took me backpacking at a very early age and i've done a trip with him almost every year of my whole life he's like a half gem my dad his brother 15 years younger and so he's like a half

015generation ahead ahead of me um so i've done lots of traveling with him usually just to places within driving distance or you know out west but this was kind of the trip of a lifetime thing so um so thank you for asking that um let's see i guess we haven't had the question what is one thing not related to being an energy commission that you'd like us to know and uh go to who's top of my list your ember is um i guess one thing is that i like i'm a swimmer and water polo player i did both through college um and i still do both in ann arbor um in adult leagues and i also coach swimming um so it's still a very big part of my life and one of the only things

016that i do that's not related to work things um i'll do [Music] um commissioner george and i'll ask i'll do the travel one too what's your favorite place of all places that you've traveled uh cool thanks debra um so i would uh probably say the favorite place that i traveled uh was poland um i went there for a two week trip when i was in college as a really unique uh program that my college did uh where we went to uh historically jewish cemetery in brooksloth poland and we did repair work uh there uh the the jewish community there um was heavily devastated by the holocaust so the cemetery that has a lot of jewish graves from before the holocaust from the 1930s 20s and back has fallen into disrepair so it's a program that

017my college started up and it's been maintaining um and so we started there spent about a week there we spent another week [Music] what sport would you compete uh in if you're in the olympics for my question and i'm gonna ask uh noah uh let's see i'm gonna have to go with uh recently added sport uh which is something i already do which is uh triathlons um i believe they added uh the distance in the olympics now is like about a point nine mile swim 20 mile bike and uh 10k run so i i do that and uh usually shorter distances but uh i i do enjoy triathlons so if i was good enough i would do that that's who haven't we gotten to noah we look forward to cheering you on then at the

018next olympics probably not gonna happen but uh let's see uh mark i i will go with you um let's see uh what is uh your favorite place well i guess a lot of people have already done the travel one so i guess so what is your five favorite time of day and why um like john my favorite time of day is in the morning um i always appreciate the morning because it's uh the cleanest time of day uh environmentally things have been quiet in the night and so the air is the freshest and uh the sun is shining the brightest and um i'm a bird watcher among other things and so i really much appreciate morning birds and a lot so it's nice and uh i've now spent uh last seven months up here in

019harbor springs and there's a whole new cast of birds that i'm learning right up here which is kind of nice mornings up here even more special than downstate life is good that's good mark uh your turn to ask a question i don't know if everybody is i mean carlene i know hasn't been asked harley well i'll ask carlene um what would be your favorite sport in the olympics if you were in the olympics and comedian okay um you might not believe me but my favorite sport the sport that i would if i could would be the biathlon also it was so bizarre that um um that uh julian said the same thing i was like how you know what's the likelihood of that i just i both the biathlon great both sports are just incredible

020and i really like them personally and it would be if you know if i could just really get into awesome awesome condition that would be unbelievable where you have to go from super high energy and then you have to like totally calm yourself totally reduce your heart rate and hold that um and hold your piece in target troop so it's a really cool sport that's what i would do okay now i can this is for um i get to ask two questions or two people a question so how about bridgette bridgette um what's your favorite place that you've traveled your favorite place of all uh let's see i was just um i was in scotland a few years ago and uh that was absolutely beautiful um i spent a bunch of time in edinburgh which

021is an amazing city and if anybody's seen harry potter movies it looks exactly like that um that's actually the city where jk rowling wrote it as well and the highlands are beautiful there's lots of coastline castles everywhere um it was great uh so i guess i um i ask a question next yes you asked a question yeah uh let's see um i know um is it fun or fang not sure how to pronounce her name um but my question would be uh what is your favorite time of day and why hi um i think the favorite time of the day would be in the evening after dinner so i can walk my dog and the kids and my husband together in the neighborhood and it's it's a beautiful neighborhood and lots of green lands and

022trees and ponds and the animals so that's my favorite time of the day and where do you live the stone bridge community yeah where we have like golf golf club as our neighbor great um so i would like to pick like correct me if i pronounce the name wrong robert jerk a robot jerk joke am i right sorry robert robert they asked i think the people that haven't been asked are josh and larry and simi okay yeah so i would like to ask simi what's your favorite place of all places you've traveled that's the question i didn't want to get asked because it's so difficult um but i studied abroad in copenhagen denmark a couple years ago my senior year of college and i really enjoyed that so i think i will uh i'll stick

023with copenhagen josh can i ask you uh what's something not related to being on the energy commission that you'd like us to know um that's a good question um let's see i have uh i have a four-year-old who keeps me very very busy and especially now with everything going on with the quarantine uh we've had to get super creative with keeping it entertained i think at first uh you know she was drawing on the walls and and we would try to stop that but now our whole house is just like a masterpiece so we figured you know just let her do it um so it's it's been fun it's been i guess it's the other major thing in my life right now um okay and so i think i'll go ahead and ask uh larry

024what is your favorite place of all places you've traveled i was going to say yo smite national park but instead of saying yo smite i might probably opt for mount lanier i think mount rainier is one of the most incredible places it's still an active volcano it is so impressive when you're hiking it it's just absolutely awesome peaceful arlene is that everybody i think yes i think that's everyone and i this is really cool um i really enjoyed this i hope all of you did also um wait a minute chuck hasn't answered a question yet so larry you can you can you can ask chuck a question chuck um now that the crib is gone um what is your favorite place i'm not sure you can hear me can you hear me yes yes excellent

025um well i've been all over the world so i've been pretty lucky to be on the continents i'm gonna pick spain um it's the only place i've been to where i could see and i still have pieces in my house of a bridge that was built before christ so i had that fall in my head actually so he said that's a souvenir i can keep um all the way through i worked on their power grid and um designed and built a nuclear power plant that's in spain that's in the basque region which is put in quite an interesting ordeal over its life but the culture is great i can speak spanish it's a wonderful place to drink wine and the people are real friendly and i loved it and had i had my druthers i

026would have picked i got a job offer and i should have taken it but i didn't swim here but thanks for that question boy um i'm looking forward to further conversations with you chuck sounds really interesting all of you actually and um and so at this point i think we are we're warmed up what and ready to move on to the next item on our agenda what do you think john i think so so i thanks a lot carlene and it was fun and uh i think um we need to do something like a picnic or a potluck or uh a beer kind of thing where we can pick up on a lot of things that we know about each other and so we can relate to each other on a on a level other

027than just uh commissioners sitting behind a podium so to speak so we've got um next on the agenda's approval of agenda which is actually pretty short um we i'll just go ahead and read it so people have to refer to it we have the energy report from josh and news from the energy office and commissioners we have a first reading of the ev readiness ordinance and then we have a review of our tasks and priorities for the next 12 to 18 months and then finally items for the next agenda and then we'll adjourn for the evening so anything else to add um so can we have a motion then to approve the agenda and the second some move second second from j all in favor just the hands fine very good okay so josh uh

028energy report yeah so i'll keep this brief because i know we got a lot of stuff on the agenda um but uh two major things i guess uh two major takeaways um so i have uh passed on the greenhouse gas inventory baton to thea so she'll be doing it this year um mostly because you know with the a20 work we've been really busy doing a lot of programming side so my attention's been taken uh mostly on the programmatic portion um so that should be coming up uh as soon as she's ready and i think she actually has most of the numbers done so i think that should be coming up uh in the next month or so so i'll let everyone know either next meeting or the meeting after that when we can expect a

029an update on the greenhouse gas inventory um outside of that uh you know have the the north side project and and larry actually has been helping us somewhat with that so he might even be able to chime in and give us even more updates than i would be able to um but yeah things are things are moving forward so a lot of good stuff uh i do have a question about the north side project what are what what are the dates for installation and yeah so larry would you like to sure i think the um the permitting process has begun it's been submitted to city building department so we're waiting to get the approval before we start the project so it's been in their hands for probably about two weeks now so generally it takes

030maybe one to two weeks so we could literally start anytime it would probably be a matter of um with the work would probably be about a week and then you were basically waiting for dte to finish their part which you know depends on their schedule they have to provide permission to operate basically at the conclusion so i'm guessing if i had to be given a date would probably be the end of september and larry i can uh check in with the permitting uh within the city to see where things are at with that as well see if we can uh push that along oh no there's a few others i'll ask you about too so real real briefly larry works for homeland solar and homeland is the uh contractor that's um doing the installation that's

031why josh called on larry to give the details so and maybe larry we'll we'll have you introduce yourself in more detail um at our next formal meeting when when you're official how's that perfect good um do we have comments um questions reports from anyone else um i gave josh a copy of a presentation i gave i was asked to be part of a thing called a solar series which are solar users describing their system um sponsored by great lakes renewable energy association and the mis which there are now 11 chapters across the state so um those are posted i i just gave it to josh for for information purposes i think powerpoint's available if you want to look at it um you can get it from josh if you have any questions i'd be happy

032to answer them at some future date and mark i actually sent that out before the meeting so everyone should have an email with that presentation so all those are posted on glrea's website um or going to youtube and looking up glrea and they're all posted there and they're from all around the state and they're going to do more and larry i hope you will do your north side project on the solar story uh in the future so great stuff half of the people that are in there are homeless solar customers so it's really nice thanks it might be good to know that uh that north side project also has a battery storage component to it too so it should be nice as far as making a resilient site pretty excited about that what's the size

033of that battery um storage well how big is it gonna be um it's two batteries 10 kilowatt hours each wow so does north side actually have that much usage that little building there yeah it does it's quite significant i think it's because it's not just the building i assume it's also the whole facility uh probably a lot of lighting there's in that particular area so yep it's quite a large you'd be surprised know what actually there's probably lots of uh from the refrigeration for the food because uh they do food distribution out of that building they do okay that's cool who did the design for that carlene i did not i didn't have anything to do with this project it was uh it was mostly larry in collaboration with the city so larry gave us

034some pride they had some designs and we kind of worked with him to get it all set up but i guess another really nice feature i think we might have um done a really brief update last time but we can go into more detail if you guys are interested um there is a ground mounted portion as well as a roof mounted portion of the ground-mounted portion we were thinking would be a really good education uh juice educational piece uh for the citizens to kind of see solar upfront and personal and uh larry has actually been working on um larry and i have been working on kind of having an informations inside the actual building kind of a information section where basically there's plaques that explain each of the different components and how they work so

035we're really excited that this will be not only a resilient center with solar but that it can also be a kind of education moment for the community so i'm pretty excited about it so speaking of an education opportunity for the community is there any way that we can get an announcement a few days ahead of time for when the installation will begin so that um we can post it on next doors for folks just to come by and watch the installation go up you know it'd be really cool i know a lot of people would really like it you know like with you know with all this at home schooling stuff that's and people want to see things like happening in the outdoors and i think it would be a really great opportunity one of

036the components and larry i meant to i still have to reach out to you about this but one of the components that uh that i was just thinking about that i thought would be really cool is actually doing like a time lapse um so maybe working with ctn or something like that to be able to get footage of the whole thing so people can watch it from the communities of their own home even and really get a sense as to what the whole installation looks like so that's something larry we can you know i mean so we can talk about later right um maybe just one other thing to mention um does everybody know about the washington county uh approval of um 2030 carbon neutrality target as well i mean i think that's something that's

037really important so that means the city of ann arbor has taken that action the county has taken the action and now um of course um the university is supposed to be announcing its plans uh this fall as far as what it's going to do in terms of following up through on the president's whistles some commitment to a path to carbon neutrality so that'll be really interesting because that's obviously a huge a huge entity in terms of energy use and co2 emissions so roughly one-third of the total city of ann arbor emissions anything else from anybody just a quick question on the washington county announcement is there going to be some collaboration that we could work with them on on things with um josh i think isn't missy somehow um involved on the the and i

038think mark you you also were on the county uh um energy or whatever it's what is it called sustainability or what's the name of the committee the environmental committee environmental do you want to talk about that then real quickly um yeah that mystery's on on that and and she's they are looking for ways to do that the biggest thing they did was they approved a several million dollar led light lighting upgrade for the county um and uh those of you who know april baranak who's the energy coordinator there um hopefully the i know the commission uh we voted to have her position elevated to director of sustainability i'm not sure that's happened yet but um i hope with the adoption of this plan that will take place i know that um missy is a strong

039advocate for that idea as well as a number of others those of you who know your county commissioner sue schink or others um encouraging her to get others on that commission washington county commission to to move um would make a real difference watching what missy can do when she has the budgetary authority and and support what she can get done is fantastic and i know that april and the county could do the same thing so um it's my opinion that that that kind of collaboration of course will happen but if we want to really happen then helping april baronack get access to the tools she needs to get the job done like missy would make all the difference in the world thanks mark anyone else okay so um let's move on to the meat of

040the agenda which is really um the two points that i mentioned earlier this ed readiness ordinance and then actions um for the commission and its working groups next year um so um first let's start with the ordinance and um josh do you have that handy or want me to pull it up or perfect so uh i sent this out to everyone uh before our meeting i think it was like on friday or saturday i hope everybody's had a chance to look at it we've talked about this multiple times before regular updates in energy commission meetings and we talked about it in the last meeting and what i'd like to do is so maybe just from a process perspective start with that and that is um this is our first reading we can't actually vote on

041this tonight because it's a working session but we can introduce this and um the intent is is that we would be on record in addition to the planning commission in supporting um this type of ordinance and that would happen before it's projected that the city will take it up um and um the forecast is is that that will happen um sometime in september so we're doing this just in the nick of time and because we have a lot of other things on our plate and we'll have an opportunity to discuss this in detail when we formally address it i'd like to try to limit this section of the agenda to roughly 15 minutes um so real quickly you can see i put together a memorandum this is just sort of following a standard process that

042city council uses when they have resolutions and then on the second page or on our right is the body of the resolution and i my recommendation is that i don't bother to read through the whole thing um i guess this is being taped but um given that it is being taped anyone that reviews the tape they can read the resolution um josh um quickly is this i didn't see this posted on legistar could this still go up yes yeah we can go ahead and post it on so we can get that up on legistar not only for this meeting but then also for um the meeting the first meeting in september which will be on september um eight or our our meeting in september which will be on the eighth that would be great so

043um i don't intend to read through this um but what i'd like to do is open it up for discussion and if i could i'd like to actually call on mark um because mark um did something similar where um i sent this out and then mark responded with a proposed amendment to everyone and so i'd like to give him the floor an opportunity to read with that amen again officially we would consider this and discuss it you know formally in our meeting in september but i thought it was worthwhile that we consider mark's input and then i'd like to open it up more generally to everyone else for roughly 10 minutes or so before we move on to the next point so mark you want to take it from here thank you john um for

044those of you who've heard me say this before i apologize for saying having to say it again but i think the uh eevee readiness ordinance is a fabulous thing and i think the people that did the work should be congratulated they've done a remarkable job i have one concern i think it doesn't go far enough and i'm concerned that asking the the city commission to you know encouraging them to do something as opposed to placing something in front of them where they can act is you know is is just not an effective way to get things done if we wanted to encourage them to do an ordinance we wouldn't have gone through all this we went through all this so that we could hand them something they could act on i believe that that ev

045charging systems should be powered exclusively with renewable energy not frat gas or coal or nuclear or any other thing and leaving it the way it is now we will be charging electric vehicles with fossil fuels making this a adding to this uh i'm suggesting is that at a minimum we resolve to um encourage uh to include charging electric vehicles with renewable energy a priority under the a2 0 system it's it's a it's low-hanging fruit we can do it by buying it from dte energy we could give commercial operations that have to pay a premium to dte to get renewable energy we could they could get a break on their property taxes for doing so we could put up a solar system dedicated to this alone we could create micro zones there's so many ways that

046this could be done without being intrusive my fear is is that we will be spending taxpayer dollars to charge electric vehicles with fossil fuels and that is not what we're intending to do here so i think let's go another half an inch if you want to say encourage them then let's put it in the resolution that we include charge this uh eb readiness charging with electric with renewables make it part of the a20 work plan so that there is a way to act on it other than talk about it so that's all thank you for the opportunity you have it in front of you if not i can read it um you know okay let me read it read it to everybody um so marcus proposed and hopefully some of you have for most of

047you have read this before that we just simply add another resolved clause um so um it would then basically start here um where we see um possible thereafter with a semicolon and and and then it would re read resolved the energy commission encourages the ann arbor city council to make the powering of eb chargers covered by the ordinance with renewable energy a priority for the a2 or zero carbon neutrality plan so that's that's the proposed um i'll call it friendly amendment um questions or comments from others including commissioners on the working commission or for that matter anyone else yes i just i've got a comment um i guess overall i completely agree that that i want every everything in the in ann arbor to be powered by renewable energy including ev chargers um i don't

048know and we've kind of gone through we've got a white paper on kind of all of the difficulties of that that we could get into but um and to me it does seem a little bit potentially redundant one of the strategy number one of the 820 is to power the entire electrical grid with 100 renewable energy and the how how to dictate or manage uh which electrons go which which uh outlets whether it's a car outlet or a home outlet or or other things i think would be we'd be quite difficult which we've kind of summarized in our paper that we could go through you know if we sent that out before we could send it out again so i i don't disagree that uh that i would say i think the whole goal of

049everybody here is to get everything renewed powered by renewable energy but i i don't know that we've got a good way of managing that within our parking ordinance as it's as it's written but if um if we want to show support for powering by renewable one way or another either in here or through a20 i'm i'm kind of fine either way i guess other comments or questions directed at mark or anyone else mark i have a question for you um so you're the the intent of the resolution addition uh or amendment is not to place a mandate but simply to um basically encourage the city and city council and the office of sustainability to push the use of renewable energy as much as possible for ev charges is that right because it doesn't read as

050a mandate oh so there the ordinance as i've read it uses the use of the language of incre we encourage the use of renewable energy correct i appreciate i appreciate jay's position i think that if we're going to reach 100 it's not going to be a light switch it's going to be step by step drip by drip until we finally reach a critical point a tipping point and then we'll jump to full renewables so i would say everything you know everything that we're doing the force function should be can we do this with renewables because if we don't do that we'll we'll bypass things so let's adopt the discipline if we want to reach the a2 goals for 100 renewables then everything we touch from now on we need to make a conscious decision no

051we're not going to do this renew with renewables and here's why um the worst sustainability i did a study with and berget also was part of this activity looking at the cities how their capital improvements plan sustainability was part of the capital improvements plan for almost 10 years and virtually nothing got funded using the sustainability stuff under the capital improvements plan and it took a sustainability director and a new city manager and more importantly a new assistant city manager to sit down and actually put teeth behind the goal of sustainability in capital improvements this is the same thing we're asking the city and other people to spend money on electric vehicle charging it's we might as well go the next step if a commercial business literally cannot afford the extra money to go to dte

052to buy renewable energy and i certainly appreciate that because i think dte should give it to you less than fossil fuels but we'll leave that aside if they really can't afford it and this is a financial burden to a commercial business then lower their property taxes accordingly to meet our plan so i yes you i'm not i'm not asking you to change encourage you guys went through a lot of work you made the decision to encourage or not okay so i say let's encourage it make it and encourage is more than words how are we going to encourage it the office of sustainability has to include it and the 820 plan city council has to look at this and say this is we should be in this is a step forward towards this how are

053we going to do the ev charger to meet our plans now is the time to do it going back later is going to be like pulling teeth saying well gee we need to go to 100 renewables because we have you know 200 ev chargers and they're all powered with frat gas that's too late so my understanding is then that you're not asking that the language be changed to a mandate you're asking that all of us the commission the city um staff particularly osi and city council do whatever we can to move charging um through whatever means so that it is powered not well actually charging specifically but more generally everything is moved as quickly as possible to using renewable energy is that correct so far i i go so far as to say that this

054ordinance and this resolution should become part of the a20 plan and show it should show up in print every time the plan shows up in print this is a way of using energy we we've made a step forward let's make another step so what whatever it takes so what i say encourage this currency adoption i don't want them to be encouraged to think about this i want them to do something and if they turn to missy and say include this in your plan we want to know how many of you chargers are up there how many are powered by renewables how many are not what's your plan for getting off powered by renewables yeah that's what i'd like to see well actually actually it is um in the memorandum um it mentions um or where

055is it um i think it's somewhere in here um it is a part this this specific activity of having um an ev charging ordinance is um in i think strategy for here it is um um strategy two calls for ann arbor to switch all of our appliances and vehicles from gasoline this is on the left-hand side propane etc to electric and sub-action six under that strategy states electric vehicles will replace ice and that we also intend to expand the local evening charging structure infrastructure there's actually um a an action in the plan that mentions specifically the um the ordinance so it is it is officially in the plan what's not there is that they will be powered with renewable energy in accordance with whatever other part of the plants we want to get to 100

056we need to tie those two things together okay so we could reference those two things in this and then reference we want to go to 100 so the way to do this is to is to tie these things together that's what i'm suggesting so um i said 15 minutes we're at 15 minutes we'll have an opportunity to discuss all this um mark i would um encourage you to read in detail and maybe respond to the white paper that jay mentioned um there's some concerns that we have in terms of you know we're we're dick we're requiring that commercial entities put in ev charging um as capable ready and installed and the question is if they go from capable to ready or ready to installed the number of spaces increase the demand will increase um there's

057no way of knowing how they will do that so there's no ability to do enforcement um the only way that would be required is requiring separate meters the same thing would be for people if people have one meter and they put ev charging in we would effectively be mandating that they switched to um you know ev uh renewable energy for um their entire home or at least the percentage dte allows from the migraine power of different percentages if their use go were to go up or if they were to go from ev ready to be installed and and actually use the charger we wouldn't know that so there's all kinds of we we see there's a lot of issues that are fraught in terms of actually enforcement and knowing that that there's something that we're

058saying that someone must do without knowing whether actually they're doing it and whether their usage changed whether then how we would then know that and how we then enforce it so those are outlined in in in the white paper and um i would ask if um you look at that and maybe make a response to that and then i think we can have a really detailed discussion on this i think all of us on the subcommittee support the thrust of your argument the question really is how do we really do this and also does it open pandora's box and say that if the city says you must do this for ev chargers well then why can't it say that you have to do it for anything else in your home or in your business so

059let's if you can look at that that would be great and then we can have really an informed discussion um in the meeting on september 8th send me the most recent of the white paper jay it's been a while since i looked at it we can do that jay if you can't do it then josh or i can yeah we should probably send it out to the whole whole commission absolutely yep good and just one super small thing just um in clerical in in the body of the resolution it mentions strategy seven for the a20 and i'm thinking should be strategy two you're right six or whatever you're right that's in there twice yep thank you good catch okay so now we move on to the meat of the meeting and by the way what

060i think we might need to do is um at some point take a break so people can get some water stretch whatever because this may take a while but um what i thought i would do is introduce this real quickly um so i think everybody knows you know we have a climate emergency we have a climate neutrality target of 2030 um by the way um from you know the city's baseline was the year 2000 and through 2018 we have reduced our greenhouse gas emissions at one percent per year and so we we have to think about what it's going to take to go from reducing emissions one percent per year to roughly 10 times that rate or more um so it's this is a huge thing in front of us um we have a pla

061a carbon neutrality plan that's approved so and those were all done unanimously but you know this just shows that we have a huge task in front of us and i would i would propose to all of us that we need to go beyond let's say our traditional role of just doing advisory work i mean that's most of what we've done in the past and propose that we follow some good examples of where we've actually taken advisory to the limit of course we cannot dictate policy that's um you know that's the role of of counsel but the examples of the ev charging ordinance um we have a fitness ordinance that's i'm waiting right now for a similar ordinance on the commercial side but we have a home energy audit disclosure ordinance that's fully written we have

062a new lighting ordinance that will help reduce um energy um but all of those ordinances have been in process for two years and so if you think again of changing our rate of improvement if you will from one percent a year to 10 or more per year and if we do these things and they take two years um we need to really do a lot more than what we've done in the past so um what what i would ask is to think about that when we go through uh this um action plan and if josh if you can bring it up um just a few questions or a few comments that i'll have um about that can i just interject something absolutely please i think that the example of stepping beyond just the advisory stuff

063the most recent example that i know in addition to what you described is pulling off the volunteer project to get solar installed on fire station six so talk about go beyond just advise i think that we haven't gotten you know no one is telling us not to do this um and and i think we should just do it until somebody tells us we can't do it and you know the the more we can um get real solar installed real windows installed real light bulbs change real things done um the better off we're all going to be so as uh to that point really quick mark as as some of you might know um we had a solar rfp for uh a bunch you know a handful of all the buildings that we have throughout the

064city uh a lot of them the largest users and and and we went through took a little look at all the solar potential and uh you know that rfp was sitting on missy's desk for some time mostly because of the attorney's office so an inability to kind of move it forward specifically based off of i would say the unique financial structure which was being recommended and so because that has taken a while to try to get through i have i've been talking to missy specifically about trying to advance that fire station model on these sites to see if if nothing else you know picking out the ones that make most sense to have volunteers on it because i think it's just a win-win all around i mean you get community members involved who really get

065to understand see the process um brings down the cost it's it's really great so um stay tuned we'll see what uh what the ultimate verdict is but uh i think it might be a direction we're going thanks mark great great input and all those people who want to do the olympics triathlons and stuff i think you're strong enough to be able to get up on a ladder on top of the fire station and show up the next one we do so it was fun i really had fun participating yep and i'll also say um you know the first time around it was kind of fresh new i think we learned enough from that example where it's going to be a lot easier now that we have the template to kind of use that same template

066over and over again um so i'm pretty excited we have all the you know i guess a legal hurdle is one of the biggest ones uh but i think we really have something that they could work so all the safety issues as well those were those were things also that mark worked on mark was a prime mover and that he really um was someone that really pushed that and did a lot of the the groundwork um getting that uh off the ground and um leading to now we have you have all the safety equipment now so there's there is some concern i will tell you among the unions about this project and so it's something we'll have to deal with going forward but there ought to be a way to make this positive for for

067everybody involved and i will say carolina saved that project because we we didn't notice that one of the panels had slipped off its frame and was actually resting on the on the sharp corner of a brick and and uh that probably would have shut down the entire array in about a month if we it's from the wind blowing out if we hadn't picked it up so her sharp eyes picked it up and and saved the day so we more than earned our keep on on that project you know i almost forgot about that hey what's the rfp for how many buildings total well uh the number keeps changing it included originally it included uh the vast majority of of city buildings including uh housing commission buildings um so you know the original rfp as i

068had crafted it probably ranged within 20 to 23 buildings um that number continues to diminish uh in part again legal concerns as far as how it should be written and you know i don't want to get into all the details but um so that's that's where you know there has been a little bit of uh you know consideration as to other ways that we could go about doing this uh i think originally uh the total uh the total capacity came out to roughly about one megawatt maybe a little over one megawatt so it was it was quite substantial as far as uh all of the sites and and all the potential that we had on on those sites um so yeah i mean right now i think we're just trying to to rethink exactly how

069we continue to go forward and and again i mean to you know many of you on the commission uh you really didn't really appreciate everything on the fire station number six and chuck hook um for example you know mark john carlene wayne appleyard and you guys were really instrumental so i'd love to do it again keep the model going uh john um if i just would like to mention a quick point on what mark brought up uh just a second ago i'm a member of labor's local 499 and i work for our district council up in lansing and i'm also a delegate to the huron israeli area labor federation and i work at the labor federation um with the ibw and i know the ibw was very very upset um and relayed that to several

070council members including council member eden who i believe is the designated uh staff representative um so it is something that we really do need to be cognizant of moving forward um you know speaking from a union that is very much in favor of a transition to green energy as fast as possible but also very much concerned about our jobs um you know that is something that we really want to be aware of you know uh the union kind of the building trades as a whole are a bit worried because you know for instance the solar plant solar panel work would be an electrician's work and you know having volunteers out there and doing that uh kind of it cuts their wages out from underneath them which is a big concern uh for the building trades

071as a whole so i didn't want to flag that moving forward or not um i do think it is something that we can definitely work around and find a solution to but i did want to make a note on that yeah no thanks so much mr george it's something even with missy if we were going forward i think we've talked a little bit about the name for example uh you know union likes to work on the project um so it's definitely something we should talk more i'd love to to kind of figure out what would make no sense as far as that goes okay so what i'm going to do is yeah bridget i think bridgette had something that she wanted to say oh okay bridgette did you have anything you want no um nope

072okay okay good so um we're gonna dig into um the spreadsheet that you have in front of you um real quickly just especially for the new commissioners um i think it's my research i just wanted to give an overview of this and then i thought we might take a five minute break and then come back like i said bathroom break water break turn our lights on i think all of us are fading into darkness here myself included um so um just to put this into context um last year we decided we wanted to have a number of different working groups and if you look at column d you can see what those are um so in addition to the full commission um we have a working group called electro or transportation electrification um you don't

073see the whole title there housing in the built environment renewables community outreach outreach to schools and 100 clean and renewable municipal operations and um my senses is that the work that we have in front of us and is outlined in eight to zero fits still pretty well into those buckets so the proposal is that we continue to use those that working group structure um some of those groups met more regularly than others but nevertheless the structure we think still works um and we also um so shawn my predecessors chair um had this idea of using an action item tracker and this is an expanded version of that um at some point we may hide some of these columns but we thought this was a good way of keeping track of everything that potentially is on

074our palette so you can see basically all the different ideas and what the status is what members are and actually later on josh and i may switch and show the full version of it and we added a column so that we have not only commissioner members but we added a column just later today carlene and i did where we would also then name resident volunteers in a number of cases we had residents that were very very active that either potentially at one time were on the commission but aren't anymore we also have a lot of youth um in the community several of whom uh applied for youth commissioner positions but didn't get selected it would be great to engage them be a good springboard to serving on on the full commission um so in any

075case we thought this was a nice format for moving forward and um then let's see um our the proposed approach is for today and i'd like you to think about this um when you take your five-minute break is that we review this item by item and have questions and discussion you can see that's going to take a while it's 28 minutes somebody's going to be shorter than others and one of the things that is important in here is the 820 prioritization matrix where some some of these projects have been identified already by osi with a priority um ranked on a number of different criteria that that we reviewed that carlene has offered to be sort of our scribe and capture and fill in comments and questions and uh things like that that this would then

076be it's actually already posted but we'll send out the link in the energy commission shared google drive so this would be accessible to everybody and the homework that i would like us to assign and uh to assign everyone is by two weeks from now so we would still have two more weeks between then in our next meeting for people to go into the document enter their name where they're interested in serving on one of these indicating in this additional column who they think might be an additional resident volunteer uh one idea carlene had was we had these technical advisory committee members that helped with the development of the plan so it could be um people like that it could be people from um you know the university of michigan students or skyline high school where

077julian is a student etc and then is there's any anybody willing to be the owner or take the lead and um that we would put that information in here and then at our next meeting we would be able to look at that and see do we have critical mass in some cases we will only have maybe one or two people or none at all and those things that we can scratch um especially you know if there's no one willing to lead it and we don't have any violent potential volunteers from the community but this way then we also see you know what we're really going to focus in on do we have enough people to to actually get the work done between members of the commission and someone willing to step as the lead as

078well as resident resident volunteers so what i would propose is that um with that in mind you think about that we opened that up for discussion about how we then structure the rest of the meeting if it's okay that we work through this list um there are questions that are noted here um some of the jobs can answer um you may have other questions but the idea here is to understand what the task descriptions are and whether or not you would be interested in working on it and whether you think we can recruit people to actually start working some of these and i think it's also important that we also think about not trying to eat the elephant meaning doing everything in the first year or two this is a 10-year plan so we don't

079have to tackle all of these in the next 12 to 18 months we should work on what are the things that we really think we can handle and go from there so um hold your comments for now if you don't mind and we'll take a break it is seven let's see what does it say by my i'm not full screen but let's see seven seven 18. so let's say 7 23 we all come back um stretched and refreshed and take a few comments before we dive into this hey john before before we break yes so my document there's a bunch of rows that where what it's what it said what it is is getting cut off yes is it possible and what i can do is i can share the the actually this is like

080a pdf of it you know josh has entered some stuff i think um where he's put his name in and what's completed and stuff like that and i'll go into the raw document and um where we can see all of the lines in the full description and all the questions etc john yeah and i had kind of a follow-up procedural question i knew a lot of these rows that you're saying with uh the completion on them i think they're hidden if if you feel comfortable with it we can since they're already completed we can focus on the stuff that hasn't been completed yet but i figured i'd just throw that out there okay so yeah go we can go ahead and show everything then okay everybody see you in five minutes john john i think

081this mike i think that's that's great approach matters i i just encourage us to really think of where it is that the energy commission can make the biggest difference maybe that's obvious but you know i i agree with uh john's analogy about we don't have to take on the whole elephant or what exactly he swallowed the whole element or what whatever it was um but so i i just want us to be really strategic and targeted because i think we can have high impact if we pick our spots wisely based on the highest impact from a from a greenhouse gas perspective but also the highest impact that we as an energy commission can actually influence so that that's i've been looking through this list with that with that lens i encourage others to do the

082same others comments i just i think it's good good plan uh you know let to just go through it today and let people go into it on their own kind of keeps people from being on the spot so just need to make sure we get get the people that that weren't uh in attendance today make sure we get that message through them as well yeah i also think it's uh it looks like a pretty good path forward um it'll allow us to kind of continue to do some more reading i know i went through and kind of picked the uh the groups that i thought i would be the most interested in and then we can go uh i i assume i just wanted to clarify i guess this is kind of a question too

083john um that once we kind of get the groups uh that we you know that for the newer commissioners to get involved in and then i see that you know each group each working group has an assigned uh project or a list of assigned projects that it would be with uh uh that working group would then choose from those assigned projects which uh items they would take on this is that uh is that correct i would say that's generally correct so without having this um hard and fast in my mind certainly and the working groups could potentially decide to do it differently by the way carlene and i discussed this in advance so i think we're generally aligned but um so there could be working groups and the working groups could meet or the working

084groups could actually decide to split up if there's again enough resources into sub-working groups and so there might be you know the housing in the built environment might say um we have enough interest and energy and resources to be able to take on three tasks all under that umbrella of the built environment working group and have three parallel groups working on things um it could also be that a working group says like mike was saying um we don't have to eat the elephant in one sitting and we're just going to work on one thing and we're going to knock that dead in nine months and then we're going to move on to the next thing that sounds great others thoughts going going gone okay so um what i'm gonna um do here is um facilitate

085this but i'm gonna really ask that other people step in and in particular lean on josh a little bit and really all the commissioners to help us understand each one of these items we really want to have a dialogue i mean if we go through 28 of these and they're 10 minutes each then we're going to be here for a marathon city council kind of meeting till 3 a.m so that's not that's not my intention um but hopefully what we can do is get through some of the main issues here um have a general understanding of them and then enable us to be able to fill this out um as we discussed over the next two weeks so the first action is something that missy suggested and that is the development of an opportunity assessment

086for uh four different categories and josh i was hoping you might be able to help us in saying um if you look at the questions is the task to create this assessments or are they going to be created by osi and maybe a consultant and we're just being asked to review it can you tell us a little bit more about this um so that people know what they're signing up and are there going to be four i assume there's going to be four different assessments because yeah so so i think the thrust of this uh of this point came from the idea that whenever we're putting out any of these programs like even for example electrification um that it's important to constantly assess the situation with homeowners with a single family with so it's it's

087kind of an overarching uh concept that you know these things are happening in dialogue so each of the subcommittees for example are going to be in dialogue with these different areas and that that you know that dialogue continue uh to get feedback to understand exactly uh what's happening what kind of again as as the prompt says what the opportunities are um to to to some of your questions though john it seems like you were thinking much more kind of of a uh you know something that's basically developed um as kind of a footprint to maybe do a carbon footprint for self-assessment um i could see i mean i don't think that there's anything that's precluding uh you know us from from doing something like that pursuing something that that people can uh you know put

088in some of their information i will say uh that we have done um quite a few uh surveys uh that get to some of these questions so you know that's that was kind of part of the a20 plan in general um surveys that went out to different people to get the sense as to what the opportunities are in these different areas so again i mean i think it was a bit broader in scope and something that should be done throughout our work but if if you guys if the commission sees this as something that they want to develop more concretely as kind of a tool i think that that could make sense as well i don't want to dominate the discussion i have a couple of questions still others questions on this so the concern

089that i have is i really don't know what i would be signing up for here um i i don't know if i'm being asked if i sign up to this am i i'm working on a tool that is then mailed to or sent to individual homeowners or individual business owners to assess um what opportunities they have to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions where they could then if they um sign up and or check a box you know five different boxes that they then could then talk to someone in concierge services or trained volunteers to help them i don't know if this is looking at surveys i i really don't know what people would be thinking when they sign up for this what's the defined task do do this with this very clear completion date and

090completion um sort of fulfillment by you know yeah by a certain date i that i don't understand i don't know what missy hasn't hey john i think you just dissected this one a little bit and we're going to be here like you said till three in the morning yeah i i'd suggest i'd suggest we just say you know this has to be better to find clearly and and take that forward we should go through the list of that mindset is it clearer is it actionable if it's not then we need to rejig it for when we do meet to assign names and do things like that good point so josh that's good osi has some homework here okay yes i'll take it back and try to see if there was anything in particular um okay

091so let's go on to the next one so um jumping down um to the second action item two since the first one's complete um you have to go up a little bit josh i can't see number two there we are um so the next one is monitoring and supporting state and federal clean energy legislation and again i think there's a number of questions that unless you can answer right now it would be the same thing that referenced where this would need to be responded to so we really know what we're signing up for so i think again i mean it's and i think john maybe some of your confusion is that these are kind of overarching themes across maybe all of the subcommittees um so uh you know we've been looking and and i think

092all the commissioners are very um familiar with this uh anytime that we have issues uh you know that we run across a lot of times it comes down to state legislation so a lot of times you know when it comes to the building code for example we can't go beyond the state building code uh when it comes to net metering the fact that net metering is uh you know we have issues with net metering um so i think that again it's it's not so much a specific action or a specific ask as it is you know looking at what we're doing throughout these different subcommittees what we're trying to accomplish uh and and really trying to work on the legislative side of it um i know fong who uh was on the line earlier i'm

093not sure she's still on um she has been uh you know kind of looking at very specifically some of that state legislation um and so i think having the commission who has all this experience and all this information um especially up at the state level policy level uh help to guide uh what how we can basically move these different things throughout these subcommittees is central for us meeting our goals so again kind of an overarching theme more than just a specific ask so this sounds like more ongoing than like you say a specific task yeah start on a particular date and on a particular date it's just going yeah and the first one is mike yep sorry god mike good morning oh i was just gonna say i think yeah this is ongoing for the

094commission but i do think once a year when the state's setting its or when the city is setting its lobbying agenda that's a good time to have it as a standing agenda item here so that there's overlap yeah yeah i think that's i don't know that there's a committee needed or anything like that it's just something that comes to the commission yeah i think that that makes a lot of sense where you know we have one time where we actually look at all this kind of in conglomeration but in the meantime it's kind of baked into what we're doing i think that yeah okay and i have a comment i think it's as part of this um down the receiving end and lansing sings how cities including ann arbor um acts in in lansing and

095you know a lot of what the cities do they work through their their normal places like the michigan municipal league um national league cities etc and and they have a lobbyist of course um but you know they're not as sharp as you know some of the concerns that say that eibc or the great lakes renewable energy association or something that comes in on a on issues that would be important um you know the argument is much sharper and the michigan municipal league for example was very pro-solar taxation so you know it sometimes uh i think the organizations that that these things flow through don't necessarily represent our interests as as we would like them to do so i would suggest as part of this that we get an audit done and let's see you know

096understand better how the city oh puts forth his legislative agenda um and who they rely on to make sure that they're relying on on you know the real players um who are in this arena down down there um and and ways we could we could leverage those things perhaps a bit different i'm going to give you one quick example the sustainability directors network is a national organization but there is no state chapter of the sustainability network sustainability directors i know of three in the state who are either on have been curtailed or uh let put on not loose or their budgets have been basically zeroed out um and i think that's a you know a not a good thing because it weakens the whole issue of sustainability in lansing a simple thing the michigan energy

097office could provide grants for sustainability directors across the state with their current budget design as far as i know no one had asked that and no one's promoting that or pushing this so you know ways that we could strengthen the some of our players and partners and stuff or maybe get some new partners as we move forward to try and move some of the legislative stuff i don't know that that um i do know that missy and i do know this individual sustainability directors have gone into lansing and testified but not not as a group and i i was surprised to learn that many of them went separate and distinct from the paid lobbyists who those cities work you know work with so um i think we could get better at this but let's start

098first with understanding exactly how the city projects its legislative agenda in lansing and who they work with and how they get this job done i'm not convinced they're they're playing with this you know the strongest hand they could be um carlene or josh if you can take notes i think carlene you said you'd take some notes um so thank you anybody else on um number two um monitoring legislation number three just real quick uh moving back to um number two so um like a sub action item then would be coming out of it is just to learn what the city's lobbying program is and their process and who we rely on for our informational resources on on what on on like the organizations that are the organizations actually representing the city's goals is that is

099that what you're saying martin i said let's let's let's from an energy point of view let's understand how the city interacts with lansing or in the federal level what what is what do they do i mean they probably if they an issue comes up they call call their lobbyists or they don't they rely on their other organizations or they don't there's some sort of methodology there that i think we need to understand better so if we're going to help them do this maybe we say this issue would be best handled by such and such organization or we think your lobbyists should be saying specifically the xyz so that we get better i mean how do we support their legislation yeah you know increase your your lobbyist budget and give more dues to michigan municipal league

100i mean it's too amorphous so i think we need to understand what the city's system is for for influencing the political process so that we can come back and be better informed so we can be more strategic in doing this because i i'm in lansing a lot and i'm with organizations that do this and there are issues that come up a lot that the city should i believe be weighing in on and they're not all right thank you that's all i have what's my favorite maybe i think commissioner eaton or council member i should say eaton has given us a little bit of insight into that when we put together um suggestions for the lobbying agenda but i think a lot more depth is probably warranted let's go on to the next point i will

101say really quick uh mark there are uh different organizations that we've relied on in the past you know a lot of times the process uh indeed deals with the mpsc so for example if there's a way during rate cases to get involved we've looked at rate cases as a possibility so i don't know if you guys are familiar with michigan maui but it's an organization southeast michigan organization that specifically gets into uh state legislation so things specifically in my my experiences with uh street lights um and and sometimes some somewhat rate case related things um but they they help us in some ways so it's not only i think the lobbyist approach even though that's a really important one and one honestly i probably have less familiarity with but there's other i guess other tools

102in the in the tool kit that we use as well but anyways okay next point um number three support the 820 summit um again i mean again if people put their name here josh people need to know what they're signing up for and from my perspective i don't know what support the summit means and you can see some questions i don't know if anybody else wants to chime in and specifically to the the community outreach working group question i think it makes a lot of sense to have it within a subcommittee um that kind of focuses on this type of thing as far as outreach goes um i can tell you even personally i'm not quite sure if you know a lot of detail has been developed as far as you know what the a20

103summit would look like going forward but i can i can ask and try to see okay so um dropping down this is a little bit confusing the way this is because we've got a mix of bold and new items in here so if we go down to line um a row i guess 11 um so um this is contributing to the design of an energy concierge service the concierge service so everybody knows is basically um a go-to position potentially populated or staffed by city people on you know actually employees of the city of ann arbor it could be under a contract it could potentially be with trained volunteers i assume and the idea is um designing this program um there is an an outline a couple of outlines for this already um and um the

104only comment um that i have here is that the prioritization um in the matrix is like very very low like like near the very bottom there are 44 actions and this is number 42 out of 44. and i really have that heart find it hard to believe that um something that is potentially advising residents and businesses and anybody on how to do something gets such a low ranking but um i don't know if you want to speak to that josh but otherwise i think it's pretty clear um i think to many of us have been on the commission what this would mean yeah just just to say i totally agree with you john i think this should be at the top of the the priority as far as it goes you know everything that i've

105experienced personally i mean we have a solarize program we're going to start with things on electrification all of that entails that we need a support network where people can turn to and i mean we've done research for example then this is something in one of the subcommittees maybe the the building and built environment that we go into more in depth but i've had phone calls for example with boulder and other areas that have concierge services so we've done some of the footwork for that um i think it's really important that that be a central piece in us going forward especially with the the community outreach side of things yeah i was going to say that i think that this one has come up before when we've been talking about things for the community outreach group

106so i know it's listed as here is the full commission but i think it could be um set for that specific group subgroup if people are interested as well so i also think this one i mean we'll talk more about it um next time but i think it fits that definition of things that the energy commission can do well i mean this is the community city interface which is kind of where we we sit but i shared john's surprise that it was that low low on the prioritization but i wouldn't let that stop us work on it yeah i agree and you know since country or services can deal with everything from um energy efficiency to um what do i do with my new ev and a bunch of other things um potentially this in

107a sense is spans the full commission and it doesn't it could be a working it could be a specific task-oriented group to ember's point but um it could draw from people that are interested in all these different areas and the design would potentially have like a tree structure that says you know if you enter at the top and what is your question and then you have different legs depending on whether it's energy efficiency or whether it's um you know a solid waste question or whether it's electrification of transportation or whatever it might be so think of it that way in designing an overall program yeah not to get into too many uh too much detail here but boulder has this really great model you know and boulder county and boulder do it differently one actually

108actually outsources it uh to a company that basically gets experts in all the different fields so they have an expert renewables they have an expert in energy efficiency and expert electrification and so that way whenever someone has a question they get unbiased uh information because a lot of times when you call up a contractor they're gonna sell you whatever they have in their lineup and a lot of times they're gonna be you know marketing that to you um so i think that kind of unbiased uh there's a lot of different models but we can get into it more you know if this goes into one of the subcommittees and i think that's really the the unbiased part is really important not that we get uh attack then later for saying well you know we sold

109a much by bigger renewable energy system that was necessary if someone had just done x then they would have saved ten thousand dollars on their solar system because they should have done um these energy efficiency things first for example okay the next point is um um line or wrote 12 provide input into the 820 youth and neighborhood ambassadors program um josh you need to comment on that um so again yeah i think community outreach i think a lot of these are going to be figuring out where they should go as far as subcommittees go but maybe josh you and carlene and i have a quick meeting afterwards and we might move some of these around so if we agree that they better fit to um community outreach then we move it from full commission to

110community outreach for example anybody have any questions um specifically related to this it means ultimately it is it's an outreach and getting people um that would be in their neighborhoods that would be sort of energy or 820 ambassadors um um you know like the kind of thing that julie um has done for solar and have that on a distributed basis both for youth as well as for neighborhood and be great to get some youth commissioners involved in this and maybe even you guys recruit other people for this any questions row 14 where josh's purser is hey john can i ask a general question um i've gotten a little confused so what is what is the ask here um because we have our sub groups um and we're supposed to figure out where each of these

111line items fits in a sub group or i know some of the things don't fit into the subgroups right now some of them are assigned to subgroups and um so what we wanted to basically get an idea of is to your question um do these belong in the full commission or do they belong in a subgroup and we've talked about that in a couple of cases and then since we have um new members and some people who haven't been involved in subgroups giving them an overview of what kind of tasks have been suggested by osi by the office of sustainability and innovation and what kinds of things can be derived from the 820 plan so that people can say yes i'm interested in doing x or getting more information on x does that make sense

112no yes no i mean that helps and i'm really sorry i'm looking at this spreadsheet and um uh so just so that i know what the object is do you want us did you say that you wanted us to sign up for things that interest us yes or what where you're willing to work work on them and then we've added a column between j and k um that then also it's at least it's on the shared drive that will just where you could say hey if i'm gonna i'm interested and i want to work on on this task that's described in column e um that i put my name in that and are you willing to be an owner or a leader of this and then also another column hey i think i know sally

113sue and sam that are not on the commission but that would be also um good people to work on this and i've talked to them and they would be willing to work on it with me okay anyone else have a different idea john i just had a quick question um in regards to like you know signing up for the different items um did you say that we would get like a google sheet so we could uh we would all have access to it uh i thought i saw that in an email but i just wanted to confirm correct uh i'd when i i just just to have in mind uh kind of when do you think that would be oh that might be a josh question so um it's already we already have a shared

114drive you may not oh given access to it yet um it's gonna it's in google right now and josh is the city's intent is that we move that over to microsoft sharepoint um just from a city transparency point of view and everything that the city does was with microsoft but for the time being we'll stay with google and we just need to make sure that all of you have access to that sheet but most most commissioners do and if you guys haven't been given access um carlino note this question and we'll make sure that we give you access to that within the next 24 hours this sheet you're talking about when you save that sheet it's what we're looking at yes yes that's the sheet i also don't think i have access to the google

115drive so we can yeah we'll send out a a blast after this just so and then if you go up a level there are a whole bunch of other documents including folders for different groups um that some of the subcommittees if we wanted to make an entry into this is that gonna be clear from josh how how to work this thing if i want to write something in here yeah there's a i think there's a way to do uh track edit um so that way you can and that way we just know who who input the information in fact if it's a google doc i think it's even clearer who contributed and how okay um we're hopefully going to move faster than this we're in row 14 now which is input into advertising the survey

116and input um josh anything there this is i guess would be an annual activity and would be potentially something um that would come either to the full commission or to a subgroup of the community outreach is that sort of correct yeah i think again the community outreach it makes sense um unless commissioners want to come to the full commission but okay questions comments what's the solar access white paper what is that share legal feedback what legal feedback does the commission have that feedback um these are things that were imported from the old action item tracker that sort of did and to be honest with you i don't know we were talking about line 16 mark is yeah i'm trying to it says i completed it but i'm trying to remember exactly what that was that

117i completed it's been a little while okay yeah it's not just me my god i think this goes back to um the group that chuck hook um worked on looking at a solar access ordinance and that was that was basically the end for legal concerns and that's why i think it's mark completed um and that's right john that's it exactly yep thank you yeah so that's what that was i mean if you want john we can also hide some of the complaints yeah we might do that yeah that way just you know it helps us go faster and that doesn't confuse people okay so we're now row 19. uh real quick john i just uh fired off an email with the link to the spreadsheet to our energy commission group okay thank you those of

118you who don't get it just let us know yeah we and yeah so let us know if you can give everyone editing privileges yup great so actually row 15 um support public engagement and outreach um josh we'll move this down to community outreach yep and this is on i guess on an unneeded basis so there's not a specific task that needs to be done starting this date and ending that date right it's just something yeah yeah so there's a there's quite a few of these that are just kind of broad yeah yeah keeping it up weaving it into the things we're doing not so much a specific ask but yeah so row 19 action number eight um i don't really know that we need anybody else working on this carlene do you want to comment

119on that rather than me once we get the dates for the uh for when the ordinance will have its first reading and then in particular the second reading but before the energy commission um we will be we as in the um transportation electrification committee or group will be reaching out to the full energy commission requesting that you share with city council your position on this and advocate for it the more the better that's that's pretty much it it should be pretty um straightforward at that point yeah and hopefully by then we will have approved the resolution that we talked about earlier in the evening which you know puts us on record as a commission um can i ask a super basic question so i just i got the link that carlene sent um did you

120say row 19 or item 19 well i'm looking on the screen and it's row 19 and item num in this case number eight action item number eight okay for some reason my rows are not matching up to yours but i'll figure it out are you seeing what josh is showing on the screen where he shared his screen well that was really hard to look at so i opened it on my computer and i'm looking at it at it on my computer but on the computer the link is off by a row but i'll figure it out okay so yeah it's it's in in the column b action item number right now we're on number eight and we'll just refer to it with those numbers going forward any other questions i think that's pretty clear number

121nine action item number nine um support development of a comprehensive ev strategy so there is a white paper um that emily drennan worked on and there are some also earlier versions that charles griffith did from the ecology center's perspective so this is definitely a comprehensive task it you know supports a whole lot of different a20 actions as you can see here in column f um so um anybody that's interested in working on this jump on board comments or questions carlene yeah just it seems like this is maybe the overarching one that all the other transportation electrification ones probably fall under good point yep so number 10 which would be to j's point a subset of number nine um the city four c's uh and you can see in column f where it is the creation

122of a bulk buy program meaning a discount program where if the city works with a couple of retailers or suppliers that if a certain number of units are sold just like the solarize program that josh talked about earlier if you get enough enough people to put solar on your roof in in your neighborhood then you get a 10 15 20 discount we would potentially do something like that with evs possibly linked to chargers possibly linked to to mark's point maybe even renewable energy if people put solar on their roof and link that all together and we get a discount and that could also be also electrification of bicycling so potentially there's already one e-bike program and that could be another and you can see um there's specific action items in the plan in column f

123um that refer to that did people have questions for us on that or do you know enough to be able to put your name in not really a question just that pointing out that that's such a high high on the prioritization matrix and again i'd say it's one that uh the energy commission is really well positioned to be helpful on so agree yeah you look at those priorities number two number 11. i mean they're really high up okay josh let's go down one public education for individuals and for large businesses um anybody want to comment on this josh or anyone else so bulk buy is one thing but another thing is how do we even just get people educated on evs for themselves for businesses and fleet conversions and this is uh something that we

124probably need to talk about between the transportation modification work and the community outreach group but this is really um the educational component um things are like range anxiety stuff like that where can you charge on a public charge or if you don't have one in your home all those kinds of educational components and i think like mike was saying earlier this is something that the energy commission is probably well positioned to to work on very much so uh the city in the past did some um some um like eevee uh publicity um ride and drive type of programs that um you know there's certain things that can be duplicated but also some new things that we can we can add into this mix as far as the kind of information and education we can um

125provide opportunities for in also including into the um the the dashboard the concierge program dashboard that could also be a way to educate and inform folks okay let's move to number 12. so we're moving into what's most likely another working group which is housing in the built environment so residences multi-family even you know office building structures etc so this is um community benchmarking and transparency work uh i'm gonna just since i have before and i'm i'm generally pretty well informed of these things i'm gonna talk and then open it up again if that's okay um i know that the 2030 district is doing a lot of work in the commercial side of this um but um there's a lot still a lot of opportunity um there and that support the 2030 district could could get

126from that we should probably put that in the comments column um and there's clearly a lot that can be done on the residential side just so people know um you know how they stack up how's their energy usage on a per square footage basis or whatever else how do they compare to everybody else any other people want to comment on that or question post questions just to say that this one in particular and i'm trying to see if there's anything about this further down but uh it really butts up against a lot of the energy disclosure work um that the housing and built environment has been working on as well um so just making sure that there's uh transparency across the community as far as where you know some of the the weaker spots are

127for energy usage you know high intense uh energy usage areas um so it it i guess it's it entails a lot more than what it leads on but and there's a there's you know in the end there's a behavioral aspect that's linked to all this so you know the hope is is that if people know how they benchmark and maybe not even know even at an aggregate level but um some some tools even allow um with you know access to smart meters and utility data and stuff or even just looking at time of use they can determine um if it's a higher air conditioning load or whatever to then get people to actually change their behaviors and act on it so it's not just providing the data it's how do you do it in a

128way that people then will act on it and then as we talked about earlier then potentially go to a concierge service and then actually get advice any thoughts any questions so the next item is 13. and um so actually i think this ordinance is basically done um in terms of residential area but missy josh as far as i know wants to launch this time of market marketing ordinance that will require a home energy audit at the time of marketing when a house is put up for sale she wants to launch that at the same time we have a similar kind of thing for multi-family and um also one for commercial so we're doing it across the board and not singling out any one segment is that correct yes yeah and we've had some uh really

129good talking about actually the 2030 district and i've actually asked jan to maybe uh join our our subcommittee our housing and built environment subcommittee because we had a really good conversation i had a really good conversation with her a couple of days ago as far as um you know what new york has been doing on the commercial sector what what really makes sense as far as going forward for energy disclosure so i think we should have some pretty good conversations along those lines as well so should we change this to not only the time of marketing ordinance but really just um energy disclosure and benchmarking together sort of combined with 12 and number 12 above should we combine those two yeah and we can john if you want offline i can go ahead and edit

130some of this so i'm just putting comments that way i remember yep yep but again this is so that people can um have a sense of what they're interested in they have a rough idea of what it is and then we can use that as a springboard to actually in a smaller group start to work on these yep i think it's a great idea getting jan more involved with this activity and um should be great get on the commission yeah she would be great yeah she has been an incredible partner uh thought partner and otherwise you know we've often uh relied heavily on the 23rd district and you know i sit on the board and so it's it's been a really great relationship and i think it's a great asset for the energy commission as

131well um strengthening that that relationship and i told her as much i said you should come come to the subcommittee meetings that way we can glean from that new column that we added uh you know potential is you don't see it here but potential community volunteers we should we should recruit jan in that column absolutely to mark's point yep thanks um we can drop down now to item 14. um i don't know a whole lot about this i have a little bit that joshua and i turn it over to you to explain or anybody else who knows some more detail about number 14. yeah so uh just thinking about again green rental housing program there's been uh i guess a different different ways that this has been envisioned um one of the really interesting conversations

132that i had and this was uh actually way before since everything is either after or before the pandemic uh but i think it was sometime december of last year november december of last year uh we talked with beyond the diag and uh and we were kind of brainstorming ways that we could uh that we could go ahead and really prioritize uh you know rental units that uh that basically have energy efficiency upgrades done to them um and and how we could maybe identify that so it was in the early stages i think we were kind of thinking through everything we could do one of the recommendations that had come up or the suggestions that i brought up was putting a green leaf near homes that met a certain standard um and so that way you

133know i think as students become more uh conscientious of uh you know everything having to do with sustainability obviously uh global warming climate change i think a lot of times uh they vote with uh you know they're much more conscientious in where they live and how you know where they choose to live and so um i mean it's kind of along those lines thinking about ways uh to promote um again people going to uh to these these units that that are more energy efficient use less energy and and produce less carbon dioxide emissions so there's a community outreach element of this then too obviously there is yeah and for those that don't know some of the new people they may not know um almost 50 of the housing units in ann arbor are so it's

134huge questions for josh okay if we don't hear from you then we assume that you have at least enough enough information to uh make a judgment and if not you could certainly reach out to me joshua carlene after the meeting so number 15. so we're almost halfway through if we can keep up the pace we'll maybe be done by nine um support development of electrification energy efficiency and distributed generation pilot and i don't know exactly what this is so one of the um you know we have the the solarize program that that has gone live and one of the things that we've really been looking at is creating an electrification component of it and making sure to bundle everything together um so one of the i guess the hurdles that we face with electrification not

135only is it a greater cost up front to purchase a heat pump uh but then it's a a higher cost throughout the life of the heat pump because you're switching over from natural gas to electricity electricity is more expensive in the state unfortunately we just have very cheap natural gas which isn't always the case i mean boulder for example doesn't face the same issues because their natural gas prices aren't as low as ours so uh so one of the things that we've really been looking at is you know how can we go ahead and bundle these things together so if you're getting a a heat pump for example can you go ahead and do a solar panel along with the heat pump pair that with things like energy efficiency so where you're really getting the

136benefits and it kind of you know they play off each other you're getting the benefits of all these things working in tandem and then you know a lot of times your payback time for each of these different items goes down when you bundle them all together so that's kind of you know developing something along those lines uh we've been working internally so i've been thinking a lot about and working with michigan saves for example an electrification program uh fong who was again also on the line earlier has been working on some of the models so you know she's thinking about modeling some of these things as far as a size of homes how much electricity will they need to use what's the cost going to be and so i think that that's squarely where where

137this lies uh helping to to develop and really integrate these things into into what we're doing uh right now so if we can enter in column i um also that there's the financing element of this too because you know if you're going to be spending an outlay for all of this then um financing becomes uh a consideration for for most people and that's where michigan saves and potentially other financial institutions might come in yeah and you know one of the things i've realized is it goes all the way back to the supplier i mean it's one of those things where you have to work you know a lot of times contractors might not have access to heat pumps and as a consequence they'll suggest that people put in furnaces even if the person wants a

138heat pump so i've been in conversations with mitsubishi for example to figure out what kind of things they offer and try to see if we can integrate you know all the way through the whole supply chain uh integrate that into contractors local contractors so that way that stuff is more accessible so i really think this piece in particular there's a lot to dig into and there's a lot of pieces a lot of complexity to it but i think yeah we'll definitely um benefit a lot from from the help from the commissioners i have a question have you um looked at this issue within the context of micro zones like kind possibility of doing this within the context of a microgrid has that come up yeah and we've always i think we've always liked the idea

139of a microgrid i think we're uh where there's kind of a resilience factor to it so when we can do it uh with things like fire stations we always try to see you know existing microwaves what can we add to it i think it becomes a little bit more difficult when it comes to neighborhoods just because the whole dt question um and that's the challenge that we've often run into but um but i love the idea i mean we should definitely think more about it so if the i think mark's point is if legislation um changes state law that that to enable microgrids um then microgrids would become an aspect just like we said with financing microgrids could potentially become another element of this definitely take a project to the legislature and say make an

140exception or the public service commission give us a one-time exception to do a demonstration project you're calling this you know you you're calling it a demonstration so let's step forward i love the idea yeah let's let's do it next point um in the renewables group um i think this is really um more something that we talked about earlier um so right the proposal is in as you can see in column f that um it calls for um the city to be able to essentially bundle everybody's um aggregate um electricity demand and to put that out to bid right now this is not allowed with the monopoly that utilities have in the united states i mean this could be preempted by a municipal utility but right now that is also a huge hurdle so right now

141the intent is to look at this and this is really just support of the enabling legislation for community choice aggregation any comments or questions to this i think probably it's not an active uh topic it's just something that we would potentially pass resolutions on and then advocate for like mark was talking about earlier it is that john is uh active in lansing so because both representative robbie and senator irwin this is high on their list um glrea we have adopted this as part of our policy platform i've personally been lobbying on this and we've been we've been testifying that so in one of the two packages is that included in one of the packages that's one of the questions whether or not it's included one of the packages or not because it's not you know

142it hasn't been clearly defined but clearly the intent um you know it's it's a way around uh community soul i mean bottom line it is and so it's um there's a lot of a lot of bipartisan support for this people have gotten tired of the dte and consumers uh you know war on community solar and just and just say you know just let go of the rope let go of the rope and pick up a new rope um and community choice aggregation is the new rope so the utilities are have fallen down backwards because we let go of the community community solar thing and they're regrouping um and they're actually a little bit behind on this public service commission has had some internal meetings on this and stuff so it's moving um arlene or josh

143you can put in the comments column um um obtain the status of legislation um from um um yusuf or um um from jeff and again this one would benefit a lot if there was a sustainability group in in michigan that was you know a chapter or something where detroit and ann arbor and holland and lancy come together there's a lot of communities that want this um and uh then communities i should also add um to mark's point that uh you know when we first started uh looking into ccas there's a legislative component of it but then there's also different ways to implement ccas so we were talking to communities you know in california communities on the east coast each place has a different way that they've used ccas so even after you know and fingers

144crossed everything goes through the legislation side i think there will definitely be a role for uh developing and understanding what the program actually looks like there's so much flexibility as to what it would how it's put together yes i think there's actually a national network um for ccas that that provides um best practices lessons learned things like that that we would involve or get involved with let's go down to number 17. um i think we can do this quickly um similar to what we talked about before with evs do the same thing with on-site generation and battery storage um i think this is basically julie's program right can we put that in the comments section um is this the solarize what is it called what's the what's the program yeah zod solarize and currently um

145the way that it's structured uh julie's mostly focusing on uh solar install so she brings in a solar installer who's invited by an individual they uh invite others in the neighborhood and then they do a discount so it's usually a 10 to 15 discount depending on how many people actually sign up for solar um but i think yeah and again it's kind of building off that model with things like batteries along with energy efficiency along with electrification so it's really looking at this i think you know the way the solarize was conceived was really specific and i think that they're thinking about this in a much broader sense you know kind of packaging this as a bundle i think makes a lot of sense uh from from many different angles so so um what what's

146julie's again can i just real quick um it's roth julie roth and i actually hosted a solarize event um last month and we had like 40 people like um another person joined my my my event and so there's two of us who are co-hosting and um right now there's just a lot of interest a tremendous amount of interest that came out of it so it's really cool um so josh you're saying that basically it's it's the idea for this is just to take the solarize event and just have it be solarized plus battery plus like that like include include more items or something and and and so that would include necessarily more vendors right like a more complexity a different yeah so one of the things that we found um with the solarize program so

147yeah it's been very successful a lot of adoption solar it's really great um but i think that there's a component of it where you know residents will come up afterwards and say hey you know we've heard about electrification we want to know how do we get a heat pump how do we go ahead and get uh you know whatever as a electric stove range you know a hot water heater with a heat pump attached to it and so they want all these options and the truth of the matter is is the market especially with the heat pumps in particular just isn't there yet and this gets to that conversation of knowing which contractors should we be turning to um you know i've been talking just recently i talked to michigan saves because i have a

148contractor list so you know who could we partner with um getting in touch with mitsubishi right so i learned we contacted mitsubishi i was working through train and mitsubishi for some things on city properties so we contacted mitsubishi you know what kind of things do they offer trainings for contractors because a lot of times contractors may not have the information as to how to install them so i think getting all of that there and the focus of solarize might still be on solar but at least there are resources uh that solarize can touch on and really offer people as they go through the process so i think that's kind of the idea okay number 18 is a number legislative issue i think we can handle it the same way where we'll check for the status

149i know in particular in this case it is a part of a particular package of bills and we can add what that is um and i i think it's already included in our lobbying agenda but we can um put put an update in here for that um josh on number 19 now jumping down to that is there really anything that the renewables group can do i mean are there specific tasks from the city that can say analyze this or advocate for that related to this or is this basically a project that is between the township the city and dte where the energy commission can't do a whole lot yeah at this point um it's a lot of studies that are going on and so we're meeting with dt on a semi-regular basis i don't know

150what there would be it's mostly just uh interconnect studies things of that nature so can can people from the commission help with the studies or or do we just hide this column for right now or this role i think yeah because it's mostly being done uh myso grid studies things of that nature so i think for now um we can i can always give updates but i think for now let's hide this then so um the next item then is number 20. um so um i don't know let's see community solar well the action item in the plan 2.3 reads support community electric vehicle and solar bike buys um and um you know the bike part of it has already been talked about up in the transportation electrification so this is really focusing on the

151solar bike pi bulk buys and i don't know is this um how is this different as it's shown here in question one uh question column 1.3 is what we just talked about the solarize program how is this different than the solarize program yeah i don't really see it as different i can ask if there's any intended difference but i think it's all kind of the same as you know so maybe we just combine those also then yeah okay maybe make a note of that there we go yeah so down to 21. um this is just something i moved down um i think we headed up above supporting the summit so i don't know that we need to do anything there unless somebody has another question or comment about it 22 provide input into okay so

152this is again copied and simply moved down i just this i just did this so we talked about that and the same thing with 23. again if people have questions speak up but i think we covered it 24 we talked about also outreach to schools um so um we're at my number action item number 25. um and one question that i wanted to ask is um and carleen maybe you're best able to speak to this but others certainly chime in especially some of the school people that are you know still the youth that are either in school or fresh out of school um is is does it warrant having two different community outreach groups or does it make sense that they're combined and if there's a certain communication then there's one strategy for schools and

153the public schools and students and their parents and a slightly different strategy for outreach for the same messaging and the same topic to a different audience an older audience or a multi-family audience i'm wondering if it really makes sense that we break out schools from outreach in general i don't know how do other people feel all right i think it should be its own a standalone um i mean what we're trying to get with schools it's one is a whole different rate structure for school so it complicates things but you know there are people who are employed by the school systems who are grappling with this too right i guess my question is how what can we do to empower them or enable them or or something and and maybe it's you know better understanding

154what what it is we we would like them to do we really want solar on all the schools um through our curriculums in all the schools do we want the union to have a place in the schools to transition students through do we want special courses set up by the union to take students early on and start channeling them into these things i mean my answer to all of those is yes so um if those are the kinds of things we do if we see the schools as an important part of a20 means we're going to cut their energy load provide renewables and hopefully make them more effective as a vehicle to get the rest of society to do that too you know partner around on that as well so i think it's different from

155community groups i think they're you know that we need a good point and i would add one other thing is we passed a billion dollar bond and so the financing is there and um for all these other community outreach groups there isn't a billion dollar bond or the equivalent so that that calls for a separate strategy probably carlene or anybody else thoughts on that it's definitely a more targeted group um and the the wide variety of opportunity just within the district um and the population as far as um infrastructure um upgrades and modifications opportunity for production renewable energy combined with um education and curriculum development um it's its own project it's it's big enough i think that uh those people who really want to focus in on uh participating and you know if they get

156selected to be part of the uh community um support team and um though it would be good to keep it separately okay maybe mark you and carlene um and others can go in and under the comments section and capture some of the points that we just talked about making that argument mentioned the bond mentioned some of the other things that mark talked about um i'm looking here at 2016. hey john i just wanted to add a brief note on the bond yeah i know that the uh they have not yet yet started uh bidding out the working yet for the construction uh for uh the the buildings i don't think it's gonna be for some time yet for that especially because of uh the the reopening plan has taken up so much of the school

157board's time but uh you know i don't know if we want to have some sort of and this is something that we can add in the comments um some sort of like uh you know comments uh focus thing where we have members of the energy commission speak at the ann arbor school board meeting so that we're reinforcing the importance of sustainability and making sure they're not cutting any corners to save money on uh renewable um uh where they're getting their energy from as well as the efficiency of the building so i think that might be worthwhile but um i can kind of let people know when that's uh getting close to um uh passage in that type of another thing we might do um robert is um get someone like emile lozana to make a

158presentation to the energy condition um even devote a meeting to that because it's so huge and um um you know we would have a different perspective than him presenting to the school board or presenting to parents or something you know we have a much much more uh experienced knowledge set and things like that so um i think we should challenge him to come and tell and lay out his plans and it can be faced but and maybe we do this you know once a year or something like that because it's so important yeah i mean especially in this instance i mean we have one opportunity to get this right with the schools because i mean this will be the buildings to uh the school district relies on for the next 30 or 40 years so

159i mean we got to make sure we get it right yeah and that we could we could get into this in detail and i'd be glad to help out on it but i think the schools are lacking targets and plans right now uh and so i think there's a there's a strong role for the energy commission to kind of bring that to light and help out in that situation yeah i would definitely echo that uh josh i know just from we've been as a labor federation we've been working with the schools on responsible contracting and i know they've just like in regards to like all the other kind of peripheral things you know labor issues environmental issues everything has just been pushed to the side with the reopening plan and executing that so you know

160especially you know the next several months into the next year you know that's uh that'll be a big thing for us to need to continue to keep on their agenda great points so um we already talked about the landfill solar project flying our number item 26 we already talked about the strategy number 27 um and under 28 and then we'll also just take a few minutes to open up for other ideas but on number 28 this is a new item and um in in the 820 plan under 2.1 um you know is electrification and this is just one element of it but um josh already talked about renewables and the rfp there and it seems to me one huge huge project is basically like almost everywhere else uh everything is heated water and air with

161natural gas in all of our municipal buildings and so the question is what is the strategy for electrifying hvac well the ec side is is typically electric but it's the heating part that is um um and so maybe we should all even hear that it had hot water because there obviously is hot water needs too um and so that's that's a huge project um and i don't know josh or anybody else want to comment on that okay yeah good um so just really quick uh to your point john um so if we switch number 26 from landfill solar to solar municipal buildings i think that might be really helpful especially since you know we're trying to figure that component out um i think that we could probably add something in here about energy efficiency audits

162as well i tried to get through some energy efficiency audits uh specifically that looked at uh some of our highest users so water treatment plant wastewater treatment plant had an engineering firm who's going to take a look at them um as per everything with the with the pandemic uh you know the the financing didn't work out for us where you know it came out quite expensive because it was an engineering firm and we didn't find a way to finance that so uh that's something else that i would love help with uh from the energy commission if we want to think about how best to proceed and do that i'd love some some ideas so thought partners on that side so you must need a new action item for that uh yeah okay did the city

163hire an energy manager i know they were short lists yes that's actually fong uh who is who's on the phone has mostly been towards state legislation up to this point so it's a little different than what you would traditionally by discussing the energy usage buildings yeah the the it's a little different um missy kind of wrote the description a little different than what a typical energy manager position would entail is there funds available in the office to hire an energy manager consultant who would not be an energy manager's lobbyist under the name of mg manager yeah um so so one of the things that we've uh we've looked at is um first getting an inventory so i guess to back up really quick uh one of the main issues we have here at the city

164and i've acknowledged this for a while now um there are a lot of band-aids so really old systems uh that are running on their last leg some of them shouldn't be running anymore so i'm surprised that they're still going boilers things of that nature um and so you know but we really don't have a very good inventory of them we had somewhat of an inventory on some of these things uh while the honeywell audit but that was a little bit of a mess yeah there were some issues with the numbers and the way that it all worked out um so you know my my intent was really to uh to bring out you know and i did an rfp energy efficiency rfp um to to pick a uh a new a new firm to do

165energy audits we actually uh we actually settled on someone uh they were going to do water dream plant wastewater tree and plant wheeler city hall so all of the largest users makes up i mean they were looking at mostly 50 of the city's energy usage so i was thinking biggest bang for the buck um they'd be looking at the largest users and something that honeywell never looked at so again even with the honeywell data just they mostly worked on parks things just weren't really all that uh important so um so we tried to get that through the problem is being an energy firm you know again it was on the pricier side and so trying to get that through during these times with the pandemic and cuts uh became difficult that the energy commission that

166we asked april baranak energy coordinator for the county to come to our meeting and present to us her her report on what she did in the last 10 years to you know reduce county building energy usage and what that entails and share her spreadsheet and show i think the members of the commission you know how how simple of a task this should be and how um what the bang for the buck is like it's it's stunning what she's been able to do and their buildings are just like ours their commissioners are just like ours you know their employees are just like ours they're energy they buy the same energy we do um and i think it's just the is just what you're saying the the fact that we don't have an inventory of the things

167that use energy is is stunning yeah that we're done and to your point mark it might make sense to even do it to justify what we're trying to get done because at this point you know if april can help to justify the the case for it i think that's the most uh crucial piece she could play in all this uh i mean i think that the actual process we have a pretty good sense you know doing a unified uh energy you know kind of system that looks at all the systems across the board automating a lot of it i mean april and i have talked a lot we've you know we're kind of in in conversations i think that the the blueprints there it's not very difficult i think making the case for it i

168think that's something i'd love to if she can come out and make the case for it i think that'd be wonderful i just want to remind you that um the thing that i believe the thing that pushed the solar project at fire station six over the edge was bringing the fire to the fire chief fire from the epsilon e to come make a presentation our commission that opened eyes and i think bringing the expert from out of town i.e the expert across the street to talk about you know energy management um it ain't lobbying i just want to go on record to say that it isn't going to lancing and lobbying and testifying it's finding out where the boiler is and seeing what's going on yeah it's it's pretty simple stuff and i think given

169the payback for some of these things i think it's well justified so i i would yeah welcome any help that we could get to make that point i'm sure she'd be happy to come speak okay so um this line 28 that we're talking about is also sort of combined with um 26 so it's solar on municipal buildings its energy efficiency and its electrification of heating of water and air those are you know three huge tasks um and we did have a subcommittee that met on this but it's sort of with covet and everything petered out um so there's there's certainly an opportunity here although on the other hand we have to recognize um for those of you who don't know the figure municipal greenhouse gas emissions are 1.3 of the city total so um it's

170you know you can see it a little bit in the ranks here the prioritization rank at 17 and um that 17 is um you know when we're looking at hvac um and heating that's only a part of of 17. so it's um the 2.1 is for basically everything municipal wide and not just not just the heating and eating the financial reason for doing this john has gone up dramatically given the tax load on tax revenue the economy and stuff like that if we want to maintain josh's job and the things we love and keep the momentum we need money that's true i'll be honest with you i think the the money the money is there i mean if you're able to create and i've talked to missy about this uh you know we have a

171revolving energy fund if we use it the way that we're supposed to um we can really fund a lot of the stuff we're trying to get done to another point john that you brought up as far as the the small footprint of the of the city i do see that obviously the city has a small footprint but i do think in some ways uh you know our community centers can be really great examples and this gets to the north side project uh for community members i mean when we have uh people coming to even our solarize programs if we could offer them an example of a heat pump working you know where you say go to this community center and we'll do you know i'll personally do a tour to show you how all the

172pieces work and everything i think that really helps and one of the things we found even with solar when when community members are able to see it touch it feel it get a sense for it all of a sudden it goes from something that sometimes is very overwhelming to something that seems very doable so i think that there is that leading by example um and i i really do intend to make sure that the city uh is that that example that others can that's exactly what i was follow to say is just we need to we need to lead by example or with others to follow yeah yeah we can do that ourselves too and and that's also the i think the neighborhood ambassador programs is people that are that have done this themselves are

173willing to be ambassadors for um their neighborhood or their ward or even you know city-wide potentially so we've worked through the list and it's about um 13 or so to um nine o'clock um what what questions do people have what have we missed um even if you don't bring it up now that doesn't mean that you can't create a line up here and suggest hey i think we should do x um so um for everybody's nj as i said the funding ideas uh that i've kind of mentioned in the past and reached out to misty about uh you're in your email yep yep you could add put them in here yeah zac if you want to or jay if you want to go ahead and and edit i'll just i can um it just it

174drives me nuts that we don't have african representation on this commission i know that we've had sustainability meetings i've seen african-americans at those meetings i know that missy has been in touch with them stuff we need to bring that perspective closer to us to help us understand the things we may not be seeing are like our biases and not only representation but also projects that are specifically targeted to have a a significant environmental justice aspect or element to them and i agree with mark martin some of you may have missed it at the very beginning mark brought it up before we really got the meeting going well i guess we yeah that's what the meeting was going so yeah we we do need when you need projects addressing that other people's comments questions i was

175looking for the name of it but i think on that note i was interested in learning a little bit more about the net zero energy affordable housing um priority i guess i don't know what they're called um and if that is one that could fit into any of these or be worked on or what has been done with it so there was um there's been some work i did a kind of a sketchup of a net zero home uh broadway for some of the housing commission sites um the idea being that a lot of times the housing commission pays for the uh the energy bills um and and so you know if we can go ahead and reduce those energy bills a higher upfront cost obviously to install things like solar um but with quicker

176paybacks if you're able to bundle these things like i was saying earlier with uh you know heat pumps things like that energy efficiency upgrades um we were able to get the uh the the bills quite low um and i think that's you know housing commission could actually reinvest that money into new housing commission projects and and kind of paying it forward to other places um so yeah if people are interested in in joining me on that i would love to have uh the commission expertise hey josh can you can you ask um within the city if we're allowed to have programs that are specifically targeted to um certain demographic groups whether it's by income whether it's by um race whether it's by whatever you know you talked about the revolving energy fund could you have

177a revolving fund for energy efficiency and solar and things like that that are targeted to lower income folks where we know that their utility costs are a higher percent of their disposable income it gets getting at what mark was talking about earlier and we have a specific project and we have programs and funding that targets those people who are spending you know a significant part of their disposable income on the combination of their housing plus utilities yeah and this is where i think michigan saves and married templeton has been an incredible ally um she does things like uh revolving energy funds for communities and they've been actually working with the alice group so the kind of donut hole again low-income groups um and so we've yeah we've been working very closely with uh with mary

178templeton and michigan say specifically on those issues um they have a whole bunch of funding mechanisms that they use uh to make sure that there's backstops for example if people can't pay um and there's a default they're able to fill those defaults based off of you know kind of backup funds so maybe there's a particular project under community outreach together with michigan saves to to make those better known yeah yeah and i think even developing because that's uh mary really uh you know we have a very good relationship with michigan saves and mary uh turned to us to really figure out you know they're trying to develop these these uh programs so even the the actual uh developing of the program implementation um i think that's a great a great idea okay um so you

179guys are tired of hearing me i want to hear from you um thoughts from julian noah larry um you guys have um yet to speak up do you have any particular things um that you want to say now or again phil feel like you can go in here and put your thoughts in but i want to call on you to see if there's any questions you have or thoughts everybody really i actually have one question um like when we're looking for new applicants for the commissions do we incorporate on the different like race or different demographics of those applicants because i mean like um i believe i forgot who said it but we definitely i'm very surprised we don't have any african-american um people in this commission and i think especially when we're talking about

180um even schools but we're talking about like um economics in this new program that that's very important to have the other perspective and i feel that and like what we're talking about talking about today i don't feel like there's too many um areas in which i've like experienced any things that require that other uh perspective but i feel like going on forward it'd be really important to have that of other people contributing that's a great question i can try to answer it and i'd encourage all of us to think about it so um nominations that the mayor makes for energy commission are based on applications so the process doesn't really go out um don't mean that anybody actually goes out and specifically beats the bushes and um says or the mayor for example his office

181doesn't do it he's sort of depending on us to go out there encourage people to apply and then he with some input from us pick and nominate people for the commission so we actually among youth commissioners had people um with more diverse backgrounds than we had for the normal positions um but it is clearly something that um we all need to be working on is going out there and encouraging um people that look different than the rest of us um to be a part of this because they're going to bring in new perspectives and new ideas um and new approaches that we may not think about what's here in the second item i believe one is referring to uh like the youth participants and everything um i think i particularly could be beneficial in finding

182more adverts and more um effective youth participants because i'm connected to the youth community that would be outstanding and again there's i'll remind everybody you don't see it here but there is a column in the spreadsheet for resident volunteers and a good way to to get people on the hook and to get them educated about what they're doing is to work on a subcommittee and if they worked on a subcommittee they'll know about uh opportunities when openings happen on the commission though we can encourage them to apply and then they can move up from just working on a working group to actually being on the commission so i i welcome um people recruiting people that way and getting them to serve on some of these um these working groups as well as to submit applications

183i mean admittedly when you know when when we looked at um at larry um you know we had a certain pool of applications or applicants and and all we really had very very limited um number of people that had waved their hand and say hey i'm willing to serve on this commission and the more uh the bigger the pool and the more diverse it is the more likely that we're going to have a broader representation here so have at it john i have another question um i think it was robert george he's the labor federation rep on uh group um he was said that i'll hold him to it that there should be a way to work out this issue of union concern about volunteer labor and our need to use volunteer labor to get

184this done i don't know whether it fits and josh said you know he's trying to get this done too if we could formalize this under under that somehow let's convene reconvene a meeting um i know that we've had some meetings but um we haven't had meetings directly with with the labor federation um on this specific issue and and let's drive to an agreement let's get an agreement that we can hand off as a resolution to the to the city and say you should do the volunteer projects here's the agreement the draft agreement we think you should execute it and move on um robert you're you're agreeable to that um yes yes whether we stick this under with josh so we can get this done yeah i know that sounds great mark um i would i

185know the president of the local uh uh ibw uh local and he's uh he's a good guy very reasonable um and you know i i think that we could definitely do that i you know i don't know what type of structure you would like to see uh for that type of meeting um but you know i can definitely facilitate and be a part um and make sure we get this moving because obviously that's the big item and you know it's a relatively easy one uh for us to you know move on renewables so um yeah let's let's get this going it's it's been presented to me that's almost an unsurmountable barrier that can that can't be done so i'm i'm happy to hear you say this so josh where do you where do you want

186to stick this so i think yeah so i think in uh item number 26 if we change the support the landfill solar to uh just basically solar on municipal buildings okay all right yeah we can go ahead and be a sub task actually because it's not exactly element okay we i think we'd be super interested uh robert and thank you for uh for for suggesting that we would love to to work with you john are you typing in this thing can you stick yeah okay i'm you know did a task force going between the between john and mark and the labor federation and to work out agreement yeah that's that sounds great and you know josh and mark i think the biggest thing historically has been there's just been a lack of communication uh and

187when there's no communication people get the wrong impressions and they act in ways that you know uh offend and you know insult others and you know i think that was kind of the way i know councilmember eaton was right in the middle of it uh when this whole thing went down the last time so you know i think we open that dialogue i think we'll be able to find a conclusion that is happy it makes everybody at least content if not happy yes yes thank you very much so we're right at nine o'clock anybody else itching to say anything everybody else news are ready to snooze i have an unrelated question to this i was just wondering um with the um like council election you know the primary and then in the fall like how

188does that work in terms of the transition between who's on the who are the council reps on the committee like just because i haven't been on when there's been a council election before josh so and i don't know a lot of the details but i could give you some broad strokes from how i understand it um usually council members choose their commissions um so uh haner and eaton um or at least eaten at least there's gonna be some replacements um so the the new uh council members who are coming in uh will be selecting the places our bylaws have always had uh two seats so two council member seats a lot of times council members sit on a lot of different commissions um but i think yeah as the new council members come in we'll

189start uh we'll start knowing who who has uh selected us i guess as as the next uh council member representatives josh are sworn in um right after the uh the general election right in november yep yep so i mean that won't be their first priority but by january we might expect um well certainly we'll have one new um commission council member and depending on jeff's desires he may say oh well i want to switch to another one so we would expect by january to have at least one possibly two new council members on the commission was that your question number yeah yeah you're here so um let's try to wrap this up no i might oh no i did you have something yes sorry uh quick question i mean i'm interested in jay's suggestion about

190the funding um i'm just wondering where we stand with our current funding i know we had that millage and then there was this sort of agreement that we were going to use a portion of that towards energy and sustainability issues and but my understanding is that's not committed that has to come up every year and a new council could take that away any year going forward is that our understanding of how it works so um and if others know more please chime in uh from my understanding of it uh the the new council members who are coming in are pretty supportive of the things that we're trying to get done um it was much more at risk in the past um you know we had thought once the millage had been allocated to us that

191uh that that was it but there was some signs that there was going to be some challenges in the future but because of the elections it seems like that might not be uh as relevant so yeah i mean just very briefly um there um there were previous votes that said that um prior to the millage if the millage was passed this is the way the money would be spent but um with the change over in the council there were two votes to try to overturn that and you may recall that the mayor vetoed that that could happen again um but as josh mentioned it seems that with new council people like being seated it's unlikely to change it not just from the energy and greenhouse gas or climate perspective but also affordable housing and pedestrian

192and biking safety so um it's possible um but probably not probable in the next couple of years but it could change again so yeah we're getting roughly 880 000 a year from that millage rebate and just i'm sorry this is to say if there's is there a mechanism of transparency of how that money is being spent and what what the outcomes are yeah we can we can always have missy uh come and do a presentation so she's the one who who mostly does the budget allocation side of things i think it's basically just going into osi's budget isn't it i mean it's yeah and then how how how it's spent is maybe then like jeff said something we can ask missy to give us some insight into and uh ember just a preemptive question i

193think you probably uh had um so you have been renewed on the commission you and and uh bridget are all good to go okay so um we're at items for next agenda i mean we don't have public comment on here i don't know there's anybody else for actually from the public that's wanted to chime in we haven't i haven't seen any signal that i don't know josh have you seen anyone uh we did have and i'm assuming that might be wayne we did have one person who had called okay someone raised their hand yep there we go let's uh can you recognize him yes they should be able to uh so number one three four number one three four and it looks like there's sometimes a delay yeah i'm gonna ask to unmute and see

194if it hello this is ken garber i live at 28 haverhill court um yes thanks chairmerski thank you all for your hard work there's a lot on your plate um but let me just lend some urgency after a brief dip global emissions are again on the rise local emissions are way up too it's obvious to anyone that's been out biking on our roads it's scary out there once again since march when commission last met in person the city has emitted roughly 900 000 metric tons co2 equivalent greenhouse greenhouse gases that doesn't include scope 3 emissions for example the emissions cost of all the non-local food we eat and consumer goods we buy including vehicles both internal combustion and electric or the embedded emissions and the concrete and other material that's going into all the new

195construction underway my point is that our city is back to a meeting as usual and the global consequences of our failure are obvious just since may we've had a record heat wave in siberia with fires and melted permafrost in canada the country's last ice shelf collapsed and one quarter of bangladesh was inundated after a massive rainfall event causing several hundred deaths mostly children it's our local emissions as much as any causing this suffering the average american puts out 33 times more co2 than the average bengali and as inventor saul griffith points out we don't have 10 years to cut our emissions to keep global heating down to 1.5 degrees celsius the ipcc's sr18 report was not widely misreported it doesn't give us 11 years because of so-called committed emissions the emissions already built into the

196machinery that powers our world we have zero years to slash emissions two degrees celsius is probably baked in to quote griffith we need one hundred percent adoption of the correct carbon list technology and every purchasing decision starting this year that means every new car needs to be electric every heating system and hvac system needs to be heat pump driven it means every piece of generating capacity needs to be nuclear wind solar or carbon-less normal market rules can't apply commissioner cleavy made much the same point tonight just as normal market rules don't apply in our situation neither does the normal pacing of city government as commissioner mursky pointed out we need bold moves and we need them now the normal adoption curve for policy change in government doesn't get us to our a to zero target

197or to any world we would want to live in because we've avoided meaningful action for so long we must do everything more or less at once this seems hopeless because if we didn't take action when it was easy it's far less likely to act now when it's really really hard and speaking directly to new commissioners george and singleton it's my personal shame that my generation through our conscious inaction over the last 30 years is directly responsible responsible for the mess you've inherited you have every right to be angry with us please hold our feet to the fire when it comes to taking real action hey hey thank you for that thank you thank you ken and we we need ken's been really good about saying this at planning commission meetings at environmental commission meetings at

198energy commission meetings and we need to constantly remind ourselves of this and we also need to model these behaviors are well as well not just ask above everybody else so thanks i'm josh anybody else any other raised hands so just think that's it yeah two last points then before a german um we're trying to do new uh commissioner orientation and one of the things that we wanted to do i sent out an email indicating that we want to do that we have it scheduled for the 20th for julian robert and for larry and one of the things that we wanted to do is um put together a roster um and karlene put that basically together right now but we also want to put terms on there um some of this we should be able to

199just pull from the city but the last thing is and that's a request of you is that you um give a short give us a short bio and i don't necessarily expect they're going to read every single bio um you know all 15 or whatever as it might be but it's it's a nice handy thing to refer back to and it also hopefully like uh the icebreaker that we had from carlene will help us to get to know each other a little bit better and to act help us work together as a team so um a reminder to send in your bios um you can send them to me and to josh and carlene and then the last item is other than this task what would people like to see for the next meeting or

200for the next couple of meetings because sometimes it's important to plan out a meeting or two so raise your hands or just speak out if you have something that you'd like us to add to the agenda going forward and i i welcome anything from ken or anybody else too and again this this is just a standing agenda item you don't have to be limited from this so um julian or robert or anybody else if you wake up tomorrow morning and have an aha moment then you just send an email to carlene and to um josh and me and we'll we'll definitely consider it and most likely um you know i think 99 times out of 100 if not 100 times out of 100 when people suggest something we work it into the agenda anybody have

201anything for right now mark john i think that the new members could benefit from your presentation on smart goals as could we all so i would uh suggest that perhaps you you do that briefing again for all of us um and don't hesitate imposing that discipline 30 measures now that we've adopted that's a good point and missy has that built into a20 but we really need the discipline because frankly the culture um not only of this commission but of the city and all of us is um not really a strong to do that that's human exactly thanks for the reminder so i have a question this is bridget um i've lost track of when some of the working groups are meeting like um the building working group um josh what's the um what's the schedule

202for that or yeah that's a great point so i think one of the things we'll have to do is work through the excel sheet um to be able to kind of consolidate the different groups and at which point we can do a uh and i know we were supposed to do this but then the pandemic hit but we could do like a google drive and that way we can get everyone's interests so whatever groups they want to be part of and whatever subjects those groups are going to be talking about in the excel sheet i'll go ahead and put out a kind of a you know doodle poll for each of those groups so we can get a time set down so for for everybody's especially for the new people since this meeting is on

203tuesday evenings a lot of the meetings have been on tuesday evenings but that's not a requirement so if a group of people get together and especially if you're recruiting people from the community to work on a particular working group or on even a sub-working group that does not mean that you have to work meet on a tuesday so bridget's point is is a good one and you know we're flexible here uh john i was just wondering if um and i may have missed this but um kind of like um uh have we decided exactly what our next big project as a full commission is going to be i know we went over all of those items um but it didn't seem like we had like a discussion over uh which one we're going to take

204on for the next nine months like you mentioned well i would say my thought is we would discuss that in our next meeting okay now i was thinking i was thinking that would be an agenda item yes yeah absolutely so yeah your good point i should have said that so we will definitely revisit this with everybody's input and look at is there something we do as a full commission or are most of these things that are most appropriately taken up by individual groups and then followed up in on in the complete commission so we'll definitely cover that in our next meeting i have one last request and that is um it's a little bit easy um when we're on zoom to call in or to use our profile picture or whatever um but um one

205of the the requests from the clerk city clerk's office and i should have said this earlier is that we stay on camera um it's you know when we're in the in the public meeting people can see us um right now we haven't had this is a working session so we don't have a lot of public but we know that communication is also not just verbal it's also um you know people's facial expressions and things like that if we're meeting in council chambers they can see us um and how we react and everything else and so i would ask that we stay on camera and that we use our camera in future meetings that's just a reminder and unless somebody else has something else i'll wait count ten count to ten and if not then we'll

206adjourn anybody i'm a slow counter okay this energy commission meeting is adjourned it's 9 16 pay at pm thank you for your dedication but as ken pointed out um we really probably need a lot more meetings like this maybe hopefully more efficient but where we'll really have our noses to the grindstone and recognize what we need to to accomplish um because we have a huge challenge so thanks everybody have a great evening and have a good week you