001they're Peggy Leonard Thank You Hewitt and councilmember Romilly here you have a corn all right me now we'll move on to approval of the agenda I have motion I'll second David Issa all right any discussion I just wanted to add approval of minutes underneath approval of agenda Jill all righty if we all are in favor of that small amendment all in favor aye all right sorry any opposed okay then we'll move on to approval of minutes and I have a motion to approve the minutes as presented so moved this is David thank you David do we have a second second MX cut any discussion of the minutes great all in favor of approving the minutes by all right all right any opposed great minutes are approved now is the time for public comment so Bonita
002can help me out here if there's there's no attendees list of beyond that us yeah so I guess that means there's no one here to make a public comment yep and let's see now we go on to report from the chair so I just briefly wanted to say that I hope everyone's doing really well under the sort of circumstances we are under this unprecedented time many of you like myself probably believe in the healing power of the arts and their importance of this tough time to unite folks as well as allow folks to reflect and see things in new ways I think is going to be more and more important in the coming weeks and so I hope you feel proud of the work that we're doing here and think that moving forward we'll be
003able to have an impact and do good things for our community as much needed right now that's all I had to say to you guys rock for us are in the forefront of people's minds even in these tough times because it's important Wow Thank You Alison yes so now that brings us on to new business the first item on our new business is a public art Commission donation so the our public art Commission received a $50,000 donation yay and we've put this donation this donation has gone into the Ann Arbor Area Community Foundation public art fund and we will be looking at some discussion if we're doing it here or I think it's here but we're gonna do this discussion but we're gonna talk about that fund and what it can be used for but
004just a little bit more background there were the Ann Arbor Area Community Foundation fund is an endowment that allows this body to use the interest that's earned each year to do maintenance and repair at this point each year earns about between a thousand and fifteen hundred dollars and we haven't used it in the past couple of years so there's a little bit of filled up with that money right now with this new donation it will grow twice as large each year the interest will double eventually once that starts hitting your interest so that's exciting and we're excited about that but we also wanted to formalize how that money can be used in anticipation of that and talked about the potential of changing the language of the Charter that's with the Community Foundation to broaden it
005a little bit so that it's not just maintenance repair and there's other opportunities for using that funding whether it be purchasing art or matching other public art projects that are going on in the city if we want to do some acknowledgement or marketing of our current collection so all of those things are ideas that we have are ways we could broaden that language and in order to broaden the language we'd have to agree upon some language together here that would be brought forward to City Council and then that would also be brought forward to the board at the Ann Arbor area Community Foundation and once both of those bodies approve that language then when we draw upon those funds we would have more ability to do other things so correct me if I'm wrong sis
006when we're having this discussion so at this point I just wanted to hear what folks thoughts are parent their priorities lie and how we brought in that language if there are some very specific things that they think we should make sure we incorporate in that language again the idea of broadening the language we only want to do this once and so the more broad we can be without sort of going crazy the better I think if we try to stay within the bounds of what we've sort of been asked to do by our ordinance that would be make sense to me as a guiding force for what we're asking to do our ordinance certainly asks us to do more around the public art collection than just maintain my parents so those could you know encourage
007us or be inspiration for us as we're having this discussion and if you guys just want to raise your hand like this I will call on you and you can start talking it's probably the easiest for me okay um yeah there are two to two things one is what's in there I you were mentioning that we should be able to market more raise awareness so I was thinking that we probably also want to weigh raised awareness among people who might give further donations so I don't know if there's a way to include that though the other thing is that the thing we most want to do I would think is to expand the public art in Ann Arbor and so is there that specifically relates to that I do so um when you were speaking
008about the ordinance I thought it was a good idea to go and look at it so there are a couple of things that I think dovetail really nicely with what Sophie was articulating as I look at the ordinance there are the language in here that I think might help guide us in this discussion is there's a and I'm not going to go with the subsections I'm just gonna read a couple of the sections that I think will be appropriate so we are supposed to make recommendations subject to the approval of the city administrator regarding disbursement of public art funds of this interest will be public art funds to acquire produce install maintain alter relocate or remove public art so that's actually a much broader place than some of the the discussion that we've had right
009under that this is D and then e under subsections one eight three eight we are supposed to or are allowed to raise funds above and beyond the funds for public arts that are included as part of an enhanced project interact with donors of funds or artworks on behalf of the city and foster public-private partnerships to support public art mechanisms for fundraising may include but are not limited to crowdfunding grants and gifts from corporations foundations and individuals so that speaks I think to the fundraising aspect and then the third thing that is a place where we sort of started as a jumping off point was F which is promote awareness of public art . which is a very broad category of work and actually built right into the ordinance so just off the top I would
010say that those are three areas that are well covered in the ordinance and could be included either by pulling this language you know precisely from the ordinance or modifying it based on swinging back yes thank you John I just want to clarify a small point I'm in total support of both what Alice and a Deb are suggesting but regarding the public art fun at the Community Foundation my wife and I have actually set up a fund at the Community Foundation so the way the Community Foundation works is that donors can either leave in their will which we have to create a fun the particular money part of the money that I under community foundation was created by the preceding committee the the Commission for our public places which was a committee DDA that was organized
011to raise and select art for the 4th and Washington parking structure that and I talked with with the folks that were on that committee Rader was one of them and at that time they raised the money to pay for all of that artwork plus they set aside money for the maintenance of that artwork and they use the Community Foundation to sort of set up an endowment for that particular artwork so the fund that the Community Foundation has identified was the public art fund they have a lot of funds the John and Tessa fund you know the dead Mexican fund and so if you want to give money to the Community Foundation and attach that gift to some sort of reason you know you create a fund the fund that's in the ordinance however the ordinance
012was created for the percent for art and I believe that the language in that ordinance relates to the money that was set aside and pooled from the percent for art right this is not talking about money the ordinance that we're referring to is talking about what we're tasked as a commissioned to do a charter that I'm talking about that does should stipulate only maintenance and repair that is that the Community Foundation is Tyrannis directly related to that distance I'm trying too many is that I don't I don't know whether or not the language in the ordinance when it says public art fund relates to the Community Foundation public art fund they're they're called the same thing and the did you want to interrupt me dead she was waiting till you were done oh okay so
013the preamble or the meridians that describes how this money can be used was originally created by the people that raised that money this committee for public art for art and public places and they put it in communications I believe that the reference in the ordinance to to manage the public art fund has to do with city money they're they're called the same thing but I believe they're theirs their separate monies and that's just to clarify my head and if you understand it differently that's that's that's fine maybe I misheard you can you clarify what it talks about is public art funds and not specific funds but funds for public art so the monies that would come to the city from the you know from the interest from the Community Art Foundation public art fun comes
014to the city for the purpose to be used for public art and currently for maintenance and repair and so once that money is dispersed on the request of us through City Council and with the agreement of the foundation it comes into the coffers of the city for the purpose of public art and the way that these funds are talked about in the ordinance is that it isn't a percent for art it is a funding for public art may come from private donations of cash or collateral crowdfunding a specific art projects as part of capital improvement project specifically designated as an enhanced project or other funds that City Council may appropriate so this interest is what we are looking at the other thing about the Charter is that it didn't I mean and I believe you
015know it's great to hear the history of how this got set up because when you build public art you want a way to maintain it and back in the 90s when this was set up you know the the there wasn't a lot of that for the art that was set up mine is my guess and I think you indicated that as well John I'm so what what the original purpose was maybe to have set this up for that one particular artwork but the way that the Charter currently reads it's much broader than that so so that's kind of betrayal of funds into the city that I think allows us to think about this money as public art money even did you have something yeah a couple things I've got the foundation description on my phone
016here and I wondered about a couple of things first of all have they agreed that we can draw money from this for the specified purpose is that because it talks about enables the Commission and as a reference back to the Commission I'll make sure that they accept us as a successful administrator the other thing is although the last sentence talks about maintaining and preserving public art the earlier thing that talks about why it was set up it was includes funds for security works like purchase should be allowed already with this I think that the fact that it was initially used for a purchase if indeed it was I think is frozen I believe that this particular organization put all of the money into this fund both to purchase to pay and to maintain I suspect
017sorry about that my any time my phone rings for some reason it knocks me off the internet yeah I know sorry dice oh I mean I guess at this point I mean it's good if historically that was the intent was to purchase and maintain and all that at this point the Charter the way the community foundation understands it and the way they've communicated it to us only limits the Charter to maintenance and repair and so we're looking to add a couple things at this point and if that's in line with how it was originally put together if that's excellent I think that's more more reason to do it right so this is David again me in general I would say I you know I think it would be kind of a shame to use you
018know foundation money to for general marketing and kind of annual expenses like that but I'm not adamantly opposed to it I definitely think we should so I think I think that when you and David I understand your the idea that it would be a shame to use it for something as mundane and as you know as as marketing perhaps I think one of the reasons that we thought that that should be or could be included and a much broader promote awareness is that it could it could its first of all it's in the ordinance as something we're supposed to be doing second it's often monies that we have to scramble to find within the city budget and things like for setting up an intern at the you know we have to dig it out somewhere
019out of a city out of public services fund or some other place so like the monies that were put aside for and you can speak to this Craig and Vinita the monies that were put aside for Olivia to you know set up the online archive or if wanted to run a promotional event that raised a womanís about you know the 10 year anniversary of the dry side or something like that add up as a fundraising you know event it's very difficult to find monies for that under the current circumstances and so but so it's it's a area where we're tasked with it but we aren't somehow able to fund it whereas in maintenance and repair we've actually over the years have built those into certain of the site budgets and so while something catastrophic could
020still happen and these monies would be helpful toward that or something big comes up that needs this kind of money it's not the routine place where we would end up using it does anyone else have any thoughts on specifically in German language we should be considering when we draft our proposed language again I I come down a little bit more with David I'm not opposed to it but unless I think first of all we're gonna have to go to City Council and ask their permission make a recommendation that this be done and then that then we would have to go as my understanding is to the community foundation board and make the similar recommendation for this to be done so that I'm wondering with without a specific project or a specific item to do if
021it wouldn't it be stronger if we had you know we want to do this and is not available nor will be available in the future nor should be and therefore in other words to use this money exclusively to raise donations you use this money as matching donations now the Community Foundation does that so in other words we set it up and we you know we will we will match your donation we will name some little fun for you or something like that a unique fundraising effort might be more persuasive to counsel that we want it to change this that I'm wondering if if it is broad enough to encompass just about anything that I would prefer maintenance to stay as city staff has maintained it that they have already I believes that policy that whoever
022controls the artwork is required to maintain the artwork and that if it if it's catastrophic well you know that that organization has to do it so that's you know that's my point I'm not opposed to it and I'm encouraged by the donation and this would just make it a larger donation but if we could have a specific idea or project how we want to use this as opposed to the general language I think the idea of having some general language to broaden the scope of the Howard can charter the money is the whole point we don't want to limit it to a certain project I think we could for example bring examples forth with our language that might get them excited and ideas of what we could potentially do with the money if we were
023able to do this if you think that might be more persuasive but I mean I think the whole point is that we want to go a little bit more with the language because we don't want to have to come back and do this another year from now again when we decide you know what we should have really just asked to do this with you know so I think the more general we can be without being too presumptuous the better oh and as far as the maintenance goes um we don't plan on asking to remove that from the language predominantly because those funds were put in there by donors who believe that to be what they were putting the money in there for and we don't want we want to honor those donations and what they
024put the money in there or at that time you also do not believe the community foundation would approve just eliminating that language and changing it to something else I think that would be including us ought to get it not approved Sophie yeah I agree with Allison that it's useful to keep it broad and that we should allow the public art Commission to decide what it would like most use it for and if it thinks some idea is a waste of money donation you know propose it for that so then you should trust the public art Commission to make those decisions sensibly and since the future is becoming increasingly unknowable I think the more flexible it is the better Johnna thanks very much I'm generally in support of keeping the language broad and I wonder if
025I could ask council member tom hollie just to chime in on what he thinks is best from our council perspective well I mean just sitting back listening to all sides yeah I think council what first one I hear consensus from the Commission and and then then half yeah but I think we'd like to leave that up for the Commission to decide but ultimately you know counsel you know wants to be supportive and and at the same time especially these days the funding is highly insecure and even when it is available it becomes contested so you know I would I would first want to see what the Commission what what language you landed on and then I'll give you a better answer I guess you know but I'd rather have the Commission you know hash it
026out and then and then give you it take them and what I think for lack of a better answer right now so I would I would say that I think Deb and I have a good foundation to start with from what we're hearing from here and we could put some language together based off of that perhaps for approval at our next meeting does that sound like a plan to you I'm certainly but a couple of the things I would like to sort of here before we move on with this I'd like to hear just kind of the roundup of where we're we've come down it sounds like there may already be the option of purchasing art which is indeed something that is indicated in the ordinance as something we can recommend to sit to the
027City Council just raise your hand if they like certain things you're saying I'm being I'm being grad sort so I think that something that I and I have to say you know I don't find marketing and promotion all that exciting either but whereas the purchase part is really exciting but also it'll be the case that only small amounts of money will become available unless we build it up and so if we did want to do an art purchase it would be planned for you know after several years of roll over the so I think having something that allows us to purchase art would be a good thing I think that promotion of art is as I said promote awareness of public art is one of our jobs and one that we do sometimes want to
028fund and so that could be a clause as well and finally I would argue that leaving repair and maintenance as in the Charter and this I know might be an area of some discussion will actually allow I think the foundation strategically to think about broadening while allowing the monies that were there already donated to be concluded with the original purchase purpose of what those monies were donated for so I'm hearing those three things as being possibilities here are there other bits of language or fine points that need to be sort of thought about in the language moving forward doing just for the record I'm not saying that promotion of public art of educational activity is unexcited or a desire it's more of a philosophical thing that the foundation money should be spent generally our capital
029or major investments I think if we had a plan for something we could get the money but I am fine with changing the language I would assume that any actual requests for money the commission would be voting on after we spend that's another thing that we you might want to speak to Allison and I'm sorry to jump in but but how the monies get dispersed yes so um the money can be dispersed either in the spring or the fall each year um timeline wise for us probably depending on when we get this approved we'll probably be looking at a spring it's personal if we're gonna take it this time around and when we do that we have to go in asking for it for a specific purpose so we as a group would come together
030and discuss things and come up with a specific item that we wanted to spend for and we could request that from the foundation I think ideally they would love it if we said you know what every year we're gonna spend this amount on this purpose and tell them when we're gonna take it out and go forward like that it makes their life a lot easier firstly I don't see us doing that I think we're a very Dement dynamic group and we you know Evan flow and have great new ideas and every year so I see us kind of coming hopefully deciding at a certain time of year to have those discussions and come to an agreement on what we want to use the million or not use the money save it on and going to
031the Community Foundation so that's how we would move forward and so we talk to common figure out our timeline then we would add into our timeline each year a discussion of monies and how it's going to be used so we had her hand up but Deb do you want to add to that before we move to no I don't think so I think that the the idea of a regular dispersal as Alison said is interesting to the foundation I mean they even have they often do those regular dispersals my sense is that they will do a regular dispersal of an amount every year with the idea even and this we should clarify that you will be using it for the purpose that you set aside and so I'm not even certain you have to say
032oh and this year and be used for this and this and this it's that here's your two thousand dollars every year to be used for these purposes so I think a little clarification on that but the second thing is that there are also funds that say we will disperse two thirds of the interest to you and roll a third for instance back into the foundation or what we've been doing is just asking for it when we've wanted it in a certain amount so those are kind of the options for it I think Sophie you had your hand up yeah my my Kirsten unfortunately introduces a new a new area which is because because of the financial crunch right now we know that wsg gallery is closing and lots of other things will be closing and
033opening things will be hard so I'm just wondering whether our charter already would cover things like assisting galleries or creating a gallery for open to the public or whether that's just completely disconnected from what we're supposed to do because I feel like there was a time when people would say I'm going to Ann Arbor to see the gallery so now I'm thinking this like one that's kind of on the side of town and then the new one look at when one and what else is there well there's the one in City Hall which you know we're actually excited about I failed to mention which maybe it's somewhere else I was gonna mention it but there has been a small budget set aside for that to continue within the space to continue working with the Ann
034Arbor Art Center to have featured artists in chambers so I'm excited about that so there is that I think I think personally as far as public art and the city of Ann Arbor goes it would it would be a stretch to see how we could be funding private nonprofit organizations within the city not to say that someday we couldn't figure that out but as it stands right now I don't see how that falls in our ordinance it more the gallery within the space and the City Hall is more in line with what we're supposed to be doing and supporting that type of space have to do have anything to add councilmember when lollie yeah oh thanks you know just adding I'm sorry doing I didn't have a better answer for you yet but you know
035when we look at money a lot of times you always want to look at matching grants you know fliers I think it really should be something that is stressed and when you go to spend money especially unfortunately the little money that that there is they kind of have a multiplier effect and leveraged what happens I mean I just remember you know student groups coming to the Commission and samo if we just had $500 we could then get this other $500 and do a project with and so you know I really would stress the importance of that having to mention grant money for other organizations who who are looking for that I think it's that's what the city does you know and whenever we're looking at em I we just we don't spend a hundred percent
036of our own money it's always in conjunction with other funds so I think it really needs to be looked at and then you know you know having maybe a two-year budget cycle or something again to see we kind of try to look out a little further so we can plan ahead further and smooth out the highs and lows a little bit more and whether you want to look up maybe uh perhaps a fund balance in your fund so you can maybe dip below you know what you're you're needing you know dip below your your your fund balance or bigger things that happen or maybe there's you know when trains at Forrest Bennett dang you know so I haven't run down maybe it may be a good idea to include in this and you know hopefully
037so that I'll continue for many many years and you know for folks and commissions after everyone here has served their their time and so putting it in place for that ever man that in mind I think are are important we talked about budgeting and I just you know for for marketing you know I just you know just a little leery of that because I mean budgeting I mean you can go both ways I mean you can spend everything on marketing I'm sorry on marketing you can spend sky's the limit it's really I think it's important when you're doing something to communicate what you're doing I don't do enough of but I keep to me sky's the limit with a marketing budget so what are you really getting and how do you really quantify it versus
038you know some of the other types of spending that can happen so I just went to sleep I just want to leave leave you with that could could I just jump in really quick just to let everybody know we're at 7:43 so if we're going to make it through the agenda I know that Allison made some comments about bringing this back our next meeting is August the 5th but in the meantime if maybe some other groups want to get together I just don't want us to miss the other items on the agenda have any some final comments to add about this topic like we've if anything's happened something feel like he didn't get a chance to say it or whatever no feel free to reach out to myself or Deb and we'll start framing some
039language about how we're gonna do this ask and we'll have that for you guys to review at the next meeting the next thing a new business is importance of art and culture for a full life I think this was something Sophie brought to the table for us to discuss today yeah I wonder if I can screen share something can I try that I can don't see what I can do oh that's just disabled I have to be allowed to do that be able to make Sophia oh ho so she can stop my video he's not the same as a screen share I don't know now screen-sharing no posters disable screen sharing okay so anyway I can't find the screen sharing it seems to be disabled right now I don't have a video so whoever is
040hosting should be able to go down to share a screen and put up the multiple attendees allowed and then you should go down to share screen and pick the screen that you want to share after that's been done so she just made you a co-host yeah does that mean ice pick on share screen huh and then it and then it'll bring up some options and pick the one that's your desktop hmm well I don't see anything that looks remotely like mine my what I have on my desktop okay that is not my desktop that's somebody else's but it seems I can't find it we're looking at a new normal lon yeah that's right you can see that yes okay so um I'll just read it through to you so it says we're currently going through
041unusual times including what's been dubbed the great pause where many of us have had an opportunity to stop and think more broadly about how we'd like the world to look when we emerge from the pandemic oops there we go when we emerge from the pandemic as well as the nationwide and even global anti-racist protests since the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis as a response to this time of openness to change this seems like a good opportunity to reach out to other art related organizations to discuss whether there new ideas things we could do join me to improve the status of artists and the arts in Southeast Michigan which would in turn positively impact public art in Ann Arbor since AIPAC has a responsibility to the public to demonstrate its commitment to the concerns of
042the public later proposed a committee to reach out as soon as possible to other organizations in the greater Detroit area and/or Southeast Michigan to see if there's any interest in convenient conference possibly virtual for the exchange of ideas along these lines and stop sharing for the minute so really it's very broad I just feel like this is a time when we shouldn't really just be bumbling along as no woman Sophie we freeze freeze let's give Sophie a second to possibly unfreeze okay Johnny looked like you wanted to jump in with something there well I didn't want to jump in I just wanted to support where Sofia's going with this I think it's a it's a brilliant idea and we as a body could provide a forum for a discussion about the arts the value of
043the arts bringing other folks together and so I think I think it's a wonderful idea and and and you know we should do it and if if you know Sophie had the idea that she wants to kind of spearhead this I would be a you know all in favor of that but you know probably because you know Alice and Deb you're you are the office there's no this group you know my only thought might be is to is to shape it into something you know a specific issue that you would like these organizations to talk about and and then you know it could start out very simple I think that just as a as a discussion and and start talking to folks to find out what issues are important and and who should be included
044in this discussion and we as a body could sponsor it completely or whatever so Sophie back on I'm just trying to keep the idea alive I love the idea Sophie and and I would support you know moving forward with it and some fashion maybe you know in the next between the next this meeting in the next you know start a work group that discusses some specifics about moving forward you know so if we brought this to my attention it seemed like a great project to fall under the special projects working group rather than adding another working group and I think that both of you are on that working group you did Sophie so Sophie John was just shouting hurrah and he was excited about this idea and sharing and he thinks it's awesome that you
045brought it former and we could work on this and then I was saying that I had when you brought the idea forward that I thought well this would be a great project for the special works committee working group and I think you guys are both on that so I knew I muted yourself like you wanted to share something I just wanted to say that and I think this would be the work of a subcommittee to decide on the topic and and the purpose so that we are working toward a goal of some sort so something to along the lines of the role of public art and social change and using the recent you know one of the things that was struck me about the the nearly two mile ents that was put up around the
046White House was that an immediate became a mural space for public art and that public expression and so thinking about the role that public art has been playing in both the current conversation national conversation as well as how we might want it to play in the immediate future toward a purchase are people looking at cataloging what has happened in their communities and then we repacking repackaging and promoting it out as a secondary art expression or a tertiary arts expression or how does it link communities together through their activism but I think we do need a purpose title statement as it relates to public art and the role that it serves or has been serving in community activism oh that's what I was gonna say 100% agree does anyone have anything else to chime in encouragement
047I I wonder if we are going to set this up as a project if we need to prove and assign it to the special projects group for instance do it we can take it on if you want but it would be nice to reflect it in the that's that the entire Commission supports this idea to be explored by the special projects and also to be brought back at some set time you know I would say some kind of planning for feasibility topic organizations that might be engaged like for instance in in town we would engage the you know universities public our Commission for instance and then was it past that and maybe bring it back for the August okay so can I have a motion to this I don't to the special projects committee or
048working group moved Thank You Jonah second John all in favor any further discussion any further discussion all in favor all right all right any opposed great thank you Thank You Sophie bring that to the table and I'm excited to see what you guys come up with I can sound a little piece of wording to Vinita if you want to have it okay thank you um for old business we have the council policy update so this is concerning the request that was put forward 150,000 years ago to the council that was to create a perhaps a policy change regarding creating a line item of 30,000 dollars that would not be used every year necessarily but but could be used things like a coupon and various things that we stipulated I believe that the wording is in
049the documents that you have for the meeting I think that the update I just wanted us to have an update of where that was and what actually happened to it and Ollie can weigh in on this but it appears that there was many things that were going on at the time that this policy would have been brought forward and I think that the upshot is that the policy was not brought forward to the full council as would have been sponsored by ollie on our behalf and I just wanted to sort of get a you know it's not that we can't put it forward in the future it's not that we might not want to rethink it but I didn't want it to leave it hanging out there as to hey whatever happened to that so
050only if you could actually add to hey whatever happened to that that would be really helpful well yeah I appreciate you bringing it forth and I'm sorry it's it's been a very choppy three or four months for many reasons and there's definitely a pin in it I'm looking at it now and I talked with our city administrator about it I know he had then had a conversation with mr. Dubey regarding some of this behave you got back with him regarding some of the projects that were going to be funded this year absolutely militants we may expand on that we will be taking this back off and discussing it but between the change in city administrators and then cope with 19 hitting there was a whole lot going on it's been a dinner rodeo for the
051city administrator he is finally starting to settle in a little bit more getting his swimming legs and we pretty much in normal daily contact with him so this will be taken up we just weren't anything was gonna be something that was going to be adopted in this year's budget we had to cut nearly 5 million dollars from this year's budget along and we're looking at a 10 million dollar shortfall next year so it was just can just wasn't gonna I was gonna fall on deaf ears if this was brought up in our budget talks this this April in May because of Kobe 19 and the budget cuts happening all over the place so you know it's it's there's a lot of good work that's been put forth and there's a need still that exists and
052we'll get through this and we will take this up again and get you some discussion on council about and hopefully incorporated in the experience budget but that's where it is right now I wish had a better answer but that with the budget cuts in fact when we adopt the budget we cut one point two million dollars that night from the budget itself so could I just jump in alley really quick and we received information from a City Clerk's office that this needed to be presented to City Council by the end of December that was forwarded to the clerk's office on time and we didn't get any additional feedback so in my follow-up with the City Clerk's office I knew that the council a city council policy committee was having some trouble initially setting up meetings
053but we were asked to forward it and prompting and asking additional questions I didn't get anything back from them till just maybe a couple weeks ago so I only say that we're asked to move a project forward and were asked to submit the information it should have gone on a council either in January or February far in advance of what was happening with coalbed okay well that's good to know and I will just take that with me and and there's that's unfortunate you know obviously you know during that time there was opportunity to to do what was was asked and this Commission did their part so all I can do is just apologize for you know not being taken up on our side thank you through the budget process within public services budget we continue
054to have funding for the City Council art gallery that it's just like now you're going to test my memory but like 15,000 or 20,000 a year for that so we're going forward with that and there is a small piece also in there for quote-unquote staff time if we were to hire another intern to to carry on the project with identifying art cataloging and doing signage there is a small piece of money in there for that so we did preserve those items going forward through the budget times right um that's really great to hear it does indicate the support of the council's work as well as the support of public services continuing to work with us and we counsel council person that you are continuing to work on this request down the road yeah I mean
055it just to be honest with you it has slipped through the cracks and I wish they didn't that which had a better answer for you well one of the things that's that's I mean this is incredibly uncertain times and one of the things that is always pretty horrifying is when you look at the big number the number of having to cut one point you know five million or five million or whatever it is out of the city budget but on the flip side you know the ask is extraordinarily modest even within those constraints and so I think the the Commission just needs to continue to work well with our staff counterparts and to continue to build credibility with the community so that such a request will be met you know positively in the future I
056think going through the motions of putting this document together and figuring that out amongst ourselves I'm in working with Lee to do it and having it forward and getting it time that's all important work that we've done that we can build upon in the future it's a little discouraging that we did all this work we got it in a time and nobody put it forward where it really needed to go but I'm glad it's continuing to have life through Welli and that we can bring it back to the table and give it new life next year hopefully we can do that in the right format and timeline again next year and on the plus side no one said no so we haven't gotten to know so that's that's also a positive thing yes great um
057any final comments on that before we move on to report from staff Oh all right next we have report from Seth and that will be brief as was alluded to previously their world that in within city government has been a swirl basically dealing with crisis as minor major and otherwise so we have no real report on our projects there were some attachments to our men our agenda that led me to believe you guys are really talking about a couple projects like the Allen Creek project as well as the first in Liberty Street is that related to something else or is that those were part of our minutes from March okay okay so then so do we have any update on the Yellin Creek project I know that it got some about dog and Great Muta
058Craig Craig your muted weird I'll give you a brief update we are divorcing the third from the construction so that there isn't a conflict as the to go forward there is a spot reserved on a retaining wall for the art and dis lection and teaspoon of the art can occur separately and be placed on the wall after the heavy construction moves out okay great and then the other item that I guess I just must have missed it in the other meeting the first in Liberty Street that's a DDA project mostly streetscape type stuff we looked like benches and things is there any specific public art projects or just enhanced design of the benches and things like that I can't speak to that that was going through the DDA so I don't know exactly what they
059have conceived for it okay I'm not sure how we get our information about the DDA of projects I know that there was some money's allocated to the Arts Alliance recently for a project I did reach out to Deb - Deb Pollock who is the head of their signs to come present at this meeting do not hear back up sir she's very busy right now but I don't know I know David you were meeting with the DDA for some CIP related stuff I don't know what our channel of communication is when they have projects kicking off that have public art involved in them how we ensure that we are looped in or part of that conversation David your Munim there sorry about that the process hasn't worked very well so far the the first first Street
060streetscape was part of our one of the items that were identified in the CIP the City Council kind of approves it that they don't have any control over the EPA spending so it doesn't really matter if the cedilla approves it the DDA has been very supportive as you know on public but trying to make that connection and figuring out how we would incorporate it has been a challenge benita is somewhere in the paperwork I was looking at before the meeting had a report about some things that they hadn't set aside to do this there is I mean maybe Vanina we can Justin by Amber to come to one of our upcoming meetings and do updates as it pertains to public art related or public enhancements at our sites most definitely yeah I was just really
061interested in it and you know that their projects and things they're doing I know they are highly supportive of the public art projects and they might be the only ones doing any other than this Allen project would be bored this year so would like to stay engaged with it great alrighty so then we will move on so I don't actually see on our agenda we had talked about adding to the agenda which we could do it somewhere within these working groups that we had recently asked legal to give us a finding and whether or not commissioners and our public art commissioners could professionally be a part of calls for art within the city and then we had gotten word back that they could not and then shortly after that we lost Mary from our Commission
062who we miss dearly she was a great asset to our group and I think having artists a part of this group is very important to us and especially artists who have experienced within the public art realm and tying our hands in that way seems very limiting and definitely debilitating to our work so we just wanted to push that back into legal and see if they could relook at that and potentially give us some more feedback or if they had questions for us because you have some dialogue to potentially remedy that so that we could have commissioners like Mary people's are I will speak to that Bernie's opinion was pretty firm that a person bidding non-work or proposing work for the city cannot be in any of the chains of approval or review of that work
063it's black and white we have a conflict an ethics policy conflict that the city attorney looks at very carefully Deb um I just wanted to say that there are a couple of things that I would like a little more clarification on as firm as the city councilperson was first of all conflict of interest at least additionally in the state of Michigan has been very broadly interpreted and he evens dog gone so far as to separate spouses who shared a mutual interest from each other in terms of conflict of interest second I now don't understand why recruit --all recusal would not have been sufficient under those circumstances and allowing them to move forward with a project but not having decision-making as far as that particular project went and the third piece that I'm confused by is
064that considering that the Commission is primarily advisory and is making recommendations and can disclose conflict of interests ahead of time which is usually all that is required I don't really understand why it would have precluded her from continuing on the Commission under reasonable and disclosure there disclude disclosure circumstances so I actually believe that the city attorney while in looking out for our best interests considering the advisory position of the Commission considering the broad conflict of interest recusal process and considering that everything has to be approved by City Council anyway I am concerned that we might want to need to look at this again Daniel looks like you had through the end oh yes I agree with Deb and I can totally understand given the bylaws written as they are now can only be interpreted the
065way the city attorney did that one other point and I agree if the city attorney can find a way that what the result is is that we've lost a very good art commissioner she wanted to be on she wants to be a part of this kind of decision-making in process and and adding sort of her knowledge and her voice and she's been very effective in doing that we've lost that not because she doesn't want to do it and not because she wants any kind of special deal just because it would really preclude her from earning a living so I agree with Deb and I don't know how how that would work out one thing I would like to add is in the ordinance not only does it say that commissioners are precluded from bidding on
066that but it also holds them back from doing anything for one year after they resign I think that's particular odorous and and it really does punish as a personal example fievel's who was trying to earn a living and we I think should care about that and I'm wondering if that could be sort of adjusted so it's not it's not one year I mean that they you know so I add that to the list mister Hoopoe if you could possibly and Allie I don't know how you feel about about that but I don't think that would diminish the effectiveness and as Deb pointed out we are an advisory group that that particular bylaw was put in place when we were principal advisor for a multi-million dollar art program so things have changed however lawyers are lawyers
067I just I had a discuss with Mary and I told her that I would advocate on behalf of that change if it would be at all possible you know work we're punishing her for a year after she's already left so that's all like yeah I'll leave your hand oh yeah I know it's it's really troubling to see that somebody being punished for giving back to the community and you know it's it's obvious we all know Mary very well and we don't feel like this is it's not the spirit of what is being being addressed and you know just be a recusal should be you know a pretty powerful tool and you know the additional one year of prohibition after serving is just it seems to be extremely unreasonable so and I you know to be
068honest with you was my conversation with with the Commission on this I missed the last meeting and we haven't had many since Kovac so I have some work to do on this Commission obviously and this is something that I'll take up with mr. frost and push for some reform here because it's drain brain and it's it's it's creative you have your hand up I just wanted to say that I think that this isn't in the end about Mary specifically although Mary is a prime example of what we can lose by not having this this sorted out properly and so I just wanted to say that that while Mary is the example that we're using it's not about this specific commission member it's about the ownerís level of stricture on commissioners that makes to me makes
069absolutely no sense BAE on what the Commission does how it operates and actually this is this may indeed be in excess maybe an out of the city but in excess of what even the state of Michigan might require for this kind of position so I'm just I feel adamant about making sure that we are reasonable for a volunteer unpaid Advisory Commission position and how we how we treat our commissioners as it relates to their expertise their positions in the community and their possible conflicts of interest and how we might address them and I dig we lost another Commissioner maybe the same reasons I'm not sure David's then found it difficult I'm not sure exactly why but you know just I just wanted to throw that out there so yeah I agree it's not just about
070Mary but it really does exclude a lot of folks from being you know giving back we hear you're loud and clear what's what has the opinion that the attorney rendered is based on your bylaws we will gladly invite Chris for us to on your meetings talk about routes forward yeah yeah because if this is as simple as a bylaw change we'll make it yeah yeah Sophie yeah I mean it's it's not a very large large town in terms of the number of artists who are involved in in that might be public art you know most people probably might do it once in a few years if it's also someone who does have that expertise it's a shame to exclude them it's really confused about the judging thing because I thought one of the things was
071is that that Commission's didn't do any of the art project now generally at the rate before recommendations for the pieces goes forward to City Council it does come to our body to put forward to City Council in general we've out of the position that we are reviewing a process that the art was selected not the piece so even more so we're not saying that's the right piece or the wrong piece we're just saying they followed but we hit recommended as a process they put it out to public they included the public they you know they use whatever all of our things that we recommended to put that forward but I think that is the one time we do touch that process very very minor recuse from that one place right and that's what we're suggesting
072she could just recuse from that conversation and we'd be good John just everybody this is a vestige from the old Commission that was that had eight hundred thousand dollars coming into a fund that we sat on task forces and we chose it so it might not have been smart to do that but that was put in place for that particular process the percent for arc and and and they did it pulling from best practices across the country so it was smart however we are not that same commission and that we are now advisory and unintended consequences is Mary thief ills and possibly Davidson yeah I think so I think when it sounds like we'll have Chris come to one of our meetings so we can better understand the bylaws that have led him to this
073decision and how we can change those what that process will look like so we can remedy this there's noone any questions before we move on to each of our little working groups if we have a feedback yes okay so are we assuming that Mary won't be able to come back on to the Commission and does that mean there is another opening or are those two things not the case so there are two openings currently and Deb and I as our working group will report we've been working on filling those however if my understanding is we could have more than what we're filling and so that if we fill those two spots Mary wants to come back and allowed within our bylaws and the capacity that she's happy with if she could do so Greg you
074had your hand of them yeah I just wanted to emphasize that no way did the Public Art Commission say that Mary could not be on it that was her choice to resign yeah but that report we got saying you can't have this conflict of interest was pretty blunt yes yes well she couldn't be on the Commission she could be on a commission but she just couldn't bid for that project and be on the commission yeah okay so working groups looks are the first working group on our list on the agenda is business owners and developers we have no report at this time the design review board meetings were canceled okay a CIT working group nothing to report at this time Hey Communications and public outreach we have nothing to report donations and our placement we
075got a donation we already reported on that so unreasonably met but we've had Deb and I are on that group and we've talked about how we're excited about the current donation and how it may leverage the ability to do some more fundraising now that we kind of had this as an example of how folks in the community can give to the public art fund sometimes people are reluctant to give too directly to the city because they're not sure how those funds will be used but this allows them to do that and still give to public art so we're excited to sort of leverage this donation and see were able to potentially raise more funds that Leadership Forum I don't think we have I think David had a question oh sorry I was just going to
076ask relating to fund raising Craig and Vina do we have a way if we got smaller donations that weren't you know up to the level that we were putting them in the Community Foundation but is there a way to segregate those within the city so that they stay applicable to the public art Commission acted I'm pausing because this questions been asked before and I'm trying to remember the response donations to the city would generally go into the general fund and there would not be restrictions on those in the general fund but I can ask the question again and refresh my memory with the answer is to get donations then they should be willing to put together a wait for us to use them the issue is a restricted fund is a unique creature in the
077municipal government and I'm not even going to try to go into it because I don't understand at all providing the money to the Community Foundation to the art fund does ensure that that's where we'll end up in our project Oh John first I think it's really smart of what Deb and Alison have sort of done as reestablished the reissue with the Community Foundation this donation that we've received is now going to the Community Foundation it's actually earning interest so it's in endowment we are using the money off of it and so that I think it might make sense that we think about donations as outlined in the ordinance being situated at the community phone through this public art fund particular donor once go ahead Craig I know one of the the things about donating to
078the Community Foundation is there's no question about it being tax-exempt and having tax credit that's by far I believe one of the reasons that donation went to the Community Foundation because it doesn't require any acknowledgement from the city as to how it would be used and whether it would be unattached and struggling forward I'm not the accountant but it would be allowed to be a deduction on the givers taxes so we're still working through smaller donations I I will say that when you know we look at the history of that endowment there are lots of small donations that make up that entire fine so I'm putting in small donations and there is a bad idea it would be fun and exciting to have a separate place that we are following some smaller donations that we
079could use readily because as we talked about the endowment can only and hopefully Craig you can dig into that a little bit more and see if there is a way to have a designated fund within the city to do that's all right this is uh this is just an aside but years ago I wanted to make a donation to an animal shelter that was run by a municipality down river my they had taken in some cats of my cousin's after she passed and I wanted to make that donation and they indicated that they were not able to take a designated donation but what I could do is I could purchase a gift card from a place and purchase and then they could use that gift card to purchase supplies or food or something like that
080I only bring this up as a yes it is hard to do designated funds in the city and yes there may be workarounds that we could also explore and so I'm just putting that out there Craig as there may be other ways that we can accomplish this that are a more direct or reimbursable kind of piece it creative Craig alright so the next one after fundraising is the Leadership Forum we met probably just before all this went down and made a nice little list of people we are going to invite and we but we are still working towards having that group come together nominating and membership new commissioner application updates so yes we just briefly touched on this we have two openings for commissioners we have two applications that we spoke to the mayor about
081last week they will be going forward to City Council when I say it's July I want to say fourth which is absolutely wrong but like the first meeting in July they'll go forward so hopefully we will have two new commissioners joining us at our next meeting policy and the governance we haven't met I think that's just you and me Deb well it sounds like we might after we speak with the city attorney there we go a special project so I do believe you guys have an update for us we do I think everyone received the the workgroup report and it focuses on the golden paintbrush award last meeting the Commission recommended the workgroup would explore how we might be able to reinstitute that we've been meeting and this happened just before the pandemic and so
082we've been meeting online primarily and we have three documents submitted to you tonight for your approval that would move this golden paintbrush award forward as background the the golden paintbrush award was a given award given by the city organized through the art commission since 1999 you have a list of all the he was gonna say recipients I'm pretty sure all the past recipients yes the list of all the past recipients I'm sure the winners of the sticker contest in the meantime o'clock okay so I don't know can I do a screen share you are not a co-host yet but if you hold on a second be able to make you a toaster that you can do a scream chair it says your co-host John alrighty let's give it a shot here yeah are you seeing
083that great okay so this is going to be more visual than informational they have submitted the contest submissions for the designs and the people have voted and spoken those are some judges and such so here is K through six these were the finalists there and I personally felt like there should have been an honorable mention also maybe for the squirrel like that one but as we go through this is the winner for K through six there Sylvia last name being covered by this other item here so we had to board from Bach elementary and then we have our seventh through twelfth grade those are the finalists there Marcella Passos Matthew yay Lela Williams and the winner Marcella pathos very nice design there and the final citywide finalists there selena chased eric up geez Jenny Williams
084Katherine Loomis and the winner being Erica cheese and that's the citywide when are there and there's a picture of some of the lovely people that work in our City Clerk's office and remember to vote in November not only to get a sticker but also to get a sticker so there will be an announcement of this I believe also at upcoming City Council meeting as well thanks so much you know if we vote be a male can we still get a sticker oh yeah people definitely ask me that several times typically the have them at City Hall or you can just stop by a precinct and they should be there as well all right I think you get electronic sticker if you know white is fun I really like them I think the final designs are
085really great I think that was a pretty awesome contest thank you John for keeping else a part of that whole process for sure yeah I think it came out great and it's good it's the city program that's moving forward and has funding and support and everything that involves arts I was really happy to be a part of that and I salute folks in the City Clerk's office for making that happen as well and all that all the entries as well so much I think it was it was a great idea and it worked out really well even though I'm a little bit sad about the squirrel not winning that's what I think honorable mention should be definitely in there for sure do you know is this the first of many of this type of contest
086or if they're thinking about doing it again at some point I don't know anything for sure but it seems like it was successful and it went well to the point that definitely folks in the City Clerk's office would advocate for doing it again I certainly would do you know how many people voted on the works I don't have that information off the top I apologize it would be just fun to know how many people participated in the voting process and I wonder if their contact information is something that was tracked by the city these are folks who are obviously interested in art auction of art so potentially a good group of people for us to communicate with potentially generally in polls like that we don't track who is doing it unless there is a reason
087to do it for Geographic is let's say you're voting on a location on a street or something like that we didn't we pretty concerned about folks as privacy and identities except makes that yeah I think I think it's probably fair enough not to track people individually but it would be nice to know the numbers and then see if we can increase those numbers if we do it again for sure the main contact person at the City Clerk's office so I worked on with this and some other projects in the past his name is Kelly Bedi and he's been super helpful and very responsive and so I think I can get in touch with him regarding some of that data well as other folk on staff great John you're back with us I am so are
088we still talking about the golden paper brush award weed while you were gone we talked about the sticker winners I see a lesson on that so and I actually were just wrapping that conversation up I believe I can talk back to your own presentation so we are we are proposing that anybody can nominate anyone an artist can nominate themself it would be an online forum and we have given a draft form that we have also created frequently asked questions and these nominations would be collected over the course of the year and sometime in August the art commission would assemble a panel of judges nobody on the art commission would judge and that this three panel judges would review all of these and we have recondite area that they use basically creativity and craftsmanship 50% civic
089engagement 25 visibility and sustainability 25 and you can judge from the past recipients it was away at the end of promoting an elected public art events that then the recipients were recommending no more than three would be would be designated a recipient of this golden paintbrush and certificates would be dependent on the judges whether they wanted to give one to just the artist that created it another one to somebody that funded it that would totally be up to the judges and they would be presented at a council meeting sometime in the fall so that in a nutshell and Sophie and Peggy is Peggy sir not and David do you have anything to add this is David I don't have anything to add I thought you did well and I think the paperwork was fairly self-explanatory
090I just want to thank you Jen oh sorry I just want to thank you John you did a great job on that we were he was working we were working on this in the midst of the coab in nineteen and he carried a lot of the weight with it so thank you thank you going forward you know I would I would like Peggy and Sophie if you're willing to kind of co-chair this subcommittee going for so your task would be to if this is approved by the art commission would be to assemble those judges by August collect all of this and we're recommending that Alison be a part of the facilitating help the judges sort of sort through it all and and come out with at least three winners so I would like to make
091a motion that the three forms the guidelines the FAQ and the submission form be adopted by the Art Commission and with a recommended date for the fall of this year so I have a question you mentioned that there would be over the course of a year people could nominate people for this correct but then you're saying a couple months from now we would be doing this election well we like I have two that I'm willing to nominate right away you know but we're the only ones who know this is even an opportunity so I really limited to whose nominating it could look kind of enter like we're just our own group nominating people and putting this forward it's not as community oriented it as I would as it seems like it could be and I
092would like to see it be human yeah I would assume that this should go to Council for their by instance that would really be counseled who would actually be giving these out at a council meeting so it's not like it's something that could start right away on our approval fair enough okay so I mean you said August so are we really talking about August 20 21 well if that's the consensus I'd like to we we have documents that could start the program Sophie and I think Peggy if you're willing to co-chair and what's the date you know we want to set we can set whatever date and and you know maybe is out really still here you know do we do we do we think that it's just too soon and too chaotic to add
093something like this for the Fall and if that's the case maybe we do it for next fall Deb has her hand up I just to sort of clarify and this is this is fantastic I mean this is exactly the kind of thing that would fall under promote awareness of public art right I mean it's exactly in our wheelhouse and because it's in our wheelhouse I do think that we have and because there was never anything I think that got rid of the golden paintbrush it just kind of you know fell into dormancy I don't think we have to ask city council anything about reinstituting the prize or awarding the prize or going through a process with the prize what we'd mostly just be asking them for is that we that they give us space in
094either their presentation or their public commentary period to present them publicly through the City Council at the time and so I mean if we're making the award I don't think we have to ask them for more than that and I'm just looking for clarification about this well I mean if you're looking at me you know I would have to ask questions but I you know loop in the mayor many because the the proclamations and runs the meetings and and I think having his input on this with would it be helpful and I can ask others but that's that's all I say I would agree with you that you don't need our permission other than if you wanted to have it placed on the agenda that's gonna be back we we don't have to do it
095in September it could be done in October November why don't we do this why don't we accept these documents and get Bonita to figure out how she can put this forum on on and all the technical and have Sophie and Peggy figure out how to move this forward and an appropriate time and report back at the August 15th which would mean we proud we won't give one out then this September but it could very well be it doesn't you know it could be December it could be in January it could be it could be you know it doesn't have to be necessarily on a particular you know and in the fall these awards are given out the historic district commission gives out awards in the fall you know I mean the council sets their hours
096and hours of having people come in and get awards so the fall is kind of an award season we might choose a different you know January you know we give give the awards and then but just to move it forward if everyone is happy with kind of the documents in the verbage that our group has recommended let's just approve these let's task a Sofia Peggy with working out the details and report back and our August 5th meeting okay so I would say John has moved is there a second David great any further discussion oh I forgot to check whether my name was spelled correctly but if my name is brought correctly then yes I think it was not actually in one place there are a couple of old typos we grill a gr il le
097T oh I'm sorry my apologies I add in the extra I I will make sure that well none of the documents includes any of our names it's the report so the documents just talk about the judging process the criteria the FAQ and the nomination to be in three different groupings and so I don't think there's a problem with your name there Sophie sorry alrighty all in favor hi any opposed great documents are approved to move forward so Peggy and Sophie you turn a torch exactly yes I'm excited to see what comes of this the final workgroup that we have on our list is the youth outreach group two guys have any report Frost today that was mostly the sticker design contest so not much else going on yet to report the next agenda is special
098presentations which I'm just getting out of zoom was a special for me without further ado I will adjourn us oh oh yes I always forget this part does anyone want to share a little piece of information or before we go I saw Ali's hand go up yeah thanks I just I just want to say you know sorry I've been a little m.i.a and it's good to see the the Commission back it's one of the more pleasurable ones to serve on and I'll be working on getting I got it to-do list here in front of me and I'll get cracking on this so make sure we come back in August we have at least my business taken care of I appreciate the work that this Commission's been doing and in light of everything and keeps coming
099back at it and Jonah appreciate you you and others who helped with the sticker design that was a great presentation and looking forward to talking about that on Monday and you know anytime that we can come to Council and offer an award or bring some good news and show what this community has done and is doing is always a welcome part of council so don't feel that you have to work around our schedule bring bring that good news and bring those awards as you see fit we can stay for a few extra minutes but the good news I appreciate you as well thanks so much thank you yes Sophie I've just been enjoying all the probably getting quite faded in the Sun from forget the official name of it so there are some really lovely
100pictures in town but also there was an interesting sculpture of shakey Jake in one of the shop windows I don't know if anybody saw about it it's really rather remarkable I don't know who did it or why or anything but it's very cool so if it were on Main Street did you know where did he see it anyone did you see it yeah that's Stefan he's a fifth Ward resident he's been doing most wire sculptures for years he actually used to have a policy of making one for my employees who were here for a year or longer and he would make them a sketch sculpture but yeah I think it's in a moveable I'm sorry peaceful Kingdom yeah yes it's been there for about a year almost I'd say it's been it for a while
101do you see things now yeah yeah I'll let the art teachers know yeah youth art month went on for three months good though the shaky Jake wire sculpture had been in the store there for years I think they just moved it after the store closed they moved it up to one of the display windows I lost my connection before you started Jonah your presentation on the stickers they were awesome they were absolutely awesome I absolutely loved it so and I had my favorite and but kudos job well done yeah that's an example of a project that came to us and they were you know had some ideas and I think that we potentially pushed them to broaden that project include ages they hadn't originally thought about so I think Jonah Peggy push that forward a
102little bit at that meeting I remember and you guys should be proud of the fact that we had an impact it was exciting I like to see the project go along and there was a one of my colleagues and our teacher from bright who was on the judging and she really enjoyed her experience so a golden paintbrush nomination right there Toby I just had an idea for future of a golden crayon for the youth section oh that's so cute I love it your co-chair so bring it make it a part of your report hmm all right well with I don't see anyone else raising their hands so thank you so much all for coming and contributing and it's so good to see all your faces please take care and see you all in August