001now call to order the 13th regular meeting of the Ann Arbor historic district Commission mr. Beeson dear Commissioner a person here mr. Fortner mr. Hall Commissioner quijano here mr. Rockland here Kershner white dude thank you Miss Thatcher I'd like to take a few minutes to outline what tonight's meeting over in welcome to the regular meeting of the Ann Arbor historic district Commission each case will be called and will first hear the staff presentation and recommendations following this the commissioners who served on the review committee will present their observations and recommendations at this point the applicant will have an opportunity to step forward and provide any comments or additional information about the application and commissioners may ask questions once the applicant has finished members of the public who wish to provide the comments on the current
002case may do so while please noting the time limit three minutes per person everyone who steps forward will need to state their name aloud for the record and sign in at the sheet located on the podium and limit their comments to the application at hand following any public comment the hearing will be closed and the Commission will deliberate the application make a motion have a discussion and then both if any members of the public would like to speak to general preservation topics and not to any specific application opportunity is provided during the public commentary following the approval of the agenda everyone who would like to address the Commission may do so and will be asked to state their name aloud for the record and sign in at the front podium thank you so much for
003coming this evening your comments are valuable to the Commission I would like now to introduce the commissioners on my far right commissioner john Beeson Commissioner white Robert myself am commissioner and a person to my left we have staff Jill Thatcher and then Commissioner Jessica quijano Commissioner Kathryn Fortner and Commissioner David Rocklin on to approval of the agenda are there any additions deletions or changes to the agenda nope hearing no objection the agenda is approved as presented moving on to audience participation do we have any members of the public who would like to come forward and speak for the record on any preservation topics on not on tonight's agenda hearing f-1 sure this is 804 South first Street it's the old West Side historic district it's a two and a half story gable front er that
004features craftsman influences like four over one single and paired windows and a full width front porch with tapered square porch posts on brick piers and a pediment inset on the shed porch roof first appears in city directories in 1923 is the home of painter Gustave H Hahn and his wife elf Frida Hans lived in the home until at least 1940 and in 2014 staff approved an application to replace a portion of the rear basement wall the rear window in this application was not affected by that work so this is on the west side of South First Street two houses south of cook Avenue the applicant is seeking HCC approval to convert to basement windows to egress windows one on the north side and one on the rear with molded fiberglass wells so looking at this
005photo one of the windows is here and I'll show you a better picture it's this one right here and the other window proposed to be made into an egress windows are on the back there's a better view of it these are from the site is it on Monday there are also more photos in the packet that the applicant provided the this is that front window the proposal is to the applicant is trying to create two new bedrooms in the basement and they both they each require their own secondary means of grass which means an egress window you can see that these are simple to pain hopper windows would looks like they have old wood storms on this is the back of the house this staining is because there was a non original aluminum awning that
006they recently took off that's why it's a discolored underneath it but this is the other back window they somebody poured a patio right up to it with just a little bit strange but it's off it's a similar it's not the exact same window because this Center mutton isn't as wide but it's a similar window proposal is to build one egress window with a well here it that both windows match the width of the existing opening and just bring them deeper that's always the preferred method so that it doesn't change the sort of symmetry that the windows have right now and you can see where it's located here on the side of the house the rear window is doesn't the well doesn't seem to be drawn in here let me see if it's on a different
007one here it's on this proposed foundation plan here's the one on the side of the house here's the one on the back of the house same thing matches the window width and it just makes it deeper you can see that there are mechanicals here there's laundry and plumbing here and they're gonna put a bathroom where that existing plumbing line is already run the reason they couldn't use this window obviously is because you you can't manage to put a bedroom across the back of the building unless you move the furnace and the water heater and things like that so that's a possible option but staff didn't really think that it was that necessary part of the reason is because there's there's some little specks in there it's your it's the standard fibreglass well that we see
008a lot of a cover is not proposed part of the reason that this is okay is because the the buildings up on a hill the house and yeah it'll still be visible but it's it's going to be less obtrusive to people walking or driving by because it's up a little bit of a hill then if you were say and eye level or looking down on it there are times when it's certainly not appropriate to put a well a window well this close to the front corner of the house I think that this is pretty unobtrusive and since they're matching the width of the existing window but certainly I'd rather have them put a couple bedrooms in the basement than try to put an addition on the back of the house say so let me get
009to the standard it's the secretary interior standards that best apply are number two that says the historic character of a property will be retained in preserved the removal of distinctive materials or alteration of feature spaces and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided number nine oops nine does not have a slide but it says that new additions exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property the new works he'll be differentiate from the old and she'll be compatible with massing size scale and architectural features to protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment and number ten says new additions and adjacent or they new construction shall be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future the essential form and integrity of the
010historic property and its environment would be unimpaired from the Secretary of interior's guidelines for windows it's recommended to design and install additional windows on rear or other non character-defining elevations if required by the new use the design should be compatible with the overall design of the building but not duplicate the fenestration pattern of the character defining elevation it's not recommended to introduce a new design that's incompatible with the historic character of the building it's also not recommended to introduce new construction that's visually incompatible or that destroys historic relationships that's more about relationships between the building and others things of nearby houses and structures and garages and fences from the Secretary's guidelines for health and safety it's not recommended to alter damage or destroy character to finding spaces features and finishes while making modifications to a
011build site to comply with safety codes so really the question at hand here is whether or not this window is a character defining feature of the house and/or if putting in a window well here would be an inappropriate modification to the house the windows that they're proposing to use our Pella clad wood casement egress windows they're 29 inches wide and 47 inch tall and fit in a 30 by 48 rough opening staff believes that the wells are appropriate if the glass is recessed to match the existing window glass and that is a condition in the suggested motion thanks Thank You mr. Deason and myself were on the review committee sure so the windows that we're looking at are in surprisingly really good shape for basement windows and it's probably because they're on this elevated plinth
012of a site otherwise they'd probably be tortured like everyone else's basement windows the storm windows are okay not too bad and the basement window in the back the storm window is not there it's missing the part coating on some of the basement walls was starting to show some of its age as is typical with a lot of these concrete foundation walls in the area but by and large you know we're trying to look around the area to see if this would affect much we're trying to look at character to find the features of the house most of the house was clad in this aluminum siding so any features that were there were kind of obscured there was any wood detail we also noticed that the soffit you could see right underneath the soffit of the
013roof overhang there was clad in this aluminum siding stuff as well so it was kind of dropped and we probably speculated about whether or not it exposed rafters or not stuff like that would have been some of the details but it being kind of covered up by aluminum didn't really show a lot of character to finding features that were unique to the house other than it being one of the old typical houses and it's layout no in this historic district area I don't have a whole lot more to add then miss Thatcher showed the plan where the two new rooms are going there these are really the only two places to actually put in window wells the driveway side the concrete goes right up to the foundation wall there there's one already going in the
014rear and of course the mechanical room so the one toward the front is the only other place to put it I do think it being up higher on hill you're not gonna notice it be able looking down in it believe some of the other windows there were original wood windows with the I think three four over light what the applicant please come forward provide your name for the record and please sign it my name is ellen polk Reiner do you have anything you'd like to add to the stack reporter lady in committee really nice yeah I'm her son and I'm just pulling up my notes here so thank you for your consideration we feel this project is immensely beneficial in our efforts as a city to fight affordability challenges the city continues to see a
015population increase that has not been matched with an appropriate level of housing supply the housing supply that has been implemented has been predominantly in the form of expensive high risers and is cost prohibitive for many this house will be occupied by graduate students and young professionals finishing the basement would seem to be the ideal plan that allows for the occupancy increase without compromising the integrity of the historical structure by means of in addition it would also be pretty difficult for anyone to observe the windows due to the elevation and there is a bit of a buffer there and that's pretty much all we have commissioners do you have any questions are you guys planning to keep the old windows just put them up in the attic sort of things if you take them out don't
016tell them in the dumpster maybe it's a good question it's one of these rare cases where we're just kind of like yeah you know it's still an old functional window yeah really good idea throw it up there and then someone finds it and I go look at that I've ever used my old stuff that I found in my attic it's a it's a it's an extremely good idea I think yeah okay would any Commissioners like to make a motion on this application I move that the Commission issue your certificate of appropriateness for the application at 804 South 1st Street the contributing property in the Old West Side historic district to install two new basement egress windows and wells on the following condition the glass is recessed to the depth of the existing window glass as
017condition the work is compatible an exterior design arrangement texture material and relationship to the rest of the building and the surrounding area and meets the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines especially those for windows and safety codes and the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings in particular standards 2 9 and 10 and the guidelines for windows neighborhood setting and health and safety support first of all I just for Ellen and her son are you aware what the condition is in the motion that the the plain of the glass of the new window should be in the same plane as the okay I just wanted to it's like I just wanted to make that circle back on that I believe that this meets the standards as listed to 9
018and 10 you know I'm seeing it up on this hill here and that I think that does weigh heavily since maybe the setback isn't as far as in other houses we've seen where they want to put a window well in that location so I think that helps them and I think it meets the standards yes the motion carries your application has been approved please note that you must apply for any required permits from the city before beginning any work on your project for 10 South Division Street in the East William historic district this is a two and a half story asymmetrical Colonial Revival home was built in 1897 for Verner snobol a bookkeeper at Michigan furniture company features a pediment and clipped front Gable and smaller Street facing attic gable below with a football shaped
019architectural window and corner returns and if anyone here knows the name of those windows I would love to know it there's got to be a better term than football-shaped the foundation has cut stone block and the half with inset front porch features slender tapered round columns and the south side is a pair of windows with a common arch transom and that is a quite a lovely window it doesn't show up very well here the window is beneath a small overhang with bracket trim in August the owner was granted permission by the CBA to alter a non-conforming structure by adding two attic bedrooms and the owner desires to reduce the number of units in the house from four to two with four bedrooms in the first floor unit and six bedrooms in the unit that spans
020the second and third floors and this application is to install three skylights that are 30 and a half inches by forty six and three-eighths one on each of the north and south side and west rear surfaces of the main so one of the locations is here in a head of the side cable that's the first yeah let me just show you here that's a lot easier that's left side which I would call the south side this is the north side and then there's one on the rear and I'll show you where that isn't just a sec and this is the front so two of these are pretty visible from the street because there's a lot of roof on this building and there's not much hiding it the one on the back of the house will
021be completely invisible to back here looks like a sweet little the the north roof through face is even bigger and cleaner that's just to show you what's going on the back and its relationship to the sides so I already read you standards 2 9 and 10 and the guidelines for roofs recommend identifying retaining and preserving roofs and they're functional in decorative features that are important in to finding the overall historic character of the building this includes through shape such as cupola cresting chimneys and weather vanes roofing material as well as its size color and patterning not recommend is changing the configuration of a roof by adding new features such as dormer windows spencer skylights that historic character is diminished again that's the key phrase of the evening to these skylights diminish this tower character of
022the building also recommended is designing additions to roofs such as dormers or skylights when required by the new use that they're inconspicuous from the public right-of-way and do not damage or obscure character to finding structures so the proposed windows would help fulfill code requirements for light and ventilation as well as a means of emergency egress into new attic bedrooms their operable and the frames protrude less than six inches from the surface despite the fact that they're very visible from the street staff does not believe this guys will be a distraction or diminish that start character of the building the work is highly reversible there's there really aren't many character defining features that go along with this roof there's not a cool chimney there's there's you know there's there's nothing that's really being interfere with except
023an asphalt roof I worried a little bit more about this uninterrupted roof plane because I think it will stand out a little bit more to have a window there where is it on that can you go back to the elevation so I can look in my package yeah it's showing it above that larger Center window so it's pretty much centered yeah you can check with the applicant in there um alright so staff does believe the work makes this some guidelines in Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines thank you my cellphone abuse more on the review committee start this one off this is a it's a pretty large I guess home on the site and the site is pretty visible I think on the street especially with the one lock next to it being open but
024the condition of the property is as you can tell deteriorate in many ways there's a lot of the the siding is not original it's cut it's covered but I do think that the you know there are still some pretty neat historic features that are in character to finding features that are still visible especially some of the exposed rafters on the just on that little second-floor overhang be on the porch reports itself there's quite a few windows that are very unique especially the one on the side it has some leaded glass and some decorative elements to it so I think each elevation itself has some some pretty interesting character defining features I I do agree that the roof is probably the roof itself is less of a character defining feature maybe more so in its shape
025than the actual roof plane so and as Miss Thatcher stated I think the skylights themselves they'll be a little bit less they are a little bit less obtrusive as far as modifying roof structure something that can be replaced or taken out yeah so this is a pretty eclectic little house that we have here is pretty neat it's you know as an aged well but it was pretty neat that you see some of the details that I wanted to point out on the front elevation I don't know if you've got a good friend elevation photo but the some of the photos may show like the top floor the very third floor there's the window minding patterns up there is pretty unique something you don't see very much on these houses you could kind of see it
026on that front window right there where they've divided it and they don't have a middle one and they just separated it was kind of see that so with that pattern showing up so pervasively on the front elevation it's it's kind of we could see that one of the windows where the upper sashes may have been removed and replaced at some point to move to remove some of that detail but we could also see it on the south side showing up here and there so it's just more kind of neat details there's another one on the south south side I want to show another cool little detail for those that might appreciate it how do I describe this the best so right where the gable is kind of punching out you can see that it's left
027hanging right at the edge of that air right there you can see it right there you see the little eyebrow that sticks out and then it's repeated again at the front of the house just little stuff that you're like oh good so you know I think this house has full of those surprises which to me makes me think that there was a lot of craftsmanship involved in this house and underneath that siding they had really unique wood features going on especially just the time spent to put those windows and make them look different yeah so there's a lot of character to the house in terms of the roofs yeah there's really nothing that's defining the roofs and I agree with what we kind of saw there from Commissioner a person that you know their roofs
028themselves are fairly sleep morning kind of planes I guess but you know in light well we'll bring this up at after the motion but yeah that's all I said thank you mom with the epic and please come forward [Applause] good evening I'm Scott Clausen an applicant for this project I think Jill did a pretty good job with the report as usual what word we're looking to do obviously is create more natural light ventilation and also some safety aspects for the rooms that are on the third floor or in the Attic the skylight that we chose is a low profile no I think I believe it comes up less than six inches off the deck and it's also internally vented which means that it doesn't have to flip open - that doesn't need to be propped
029open there's actually a lever inside it that you pull down and it creates venting around the whole rim of the skylight so this one this skylight is not meant to be propped open so it'll always be down unless somebody's trying to get out I think that's an important feature and then the other thing is it can also be ordered in the color it's a green shingle on there now we can order it in that same color so it once more with the existing roof it it's it sounds like from the staff report did for two of the bedrooms the two of the windows we're gonna provide secondary egress for the bedrooms and then they were all going to provide light and ventilation obviously is that light and ventilation a requirement or is that just like
030it's nice to have light and ventilation well it's it's nice to have yeah I got we did we can do artificial I agree 100% I just want to know is it required or is it a nice to have and then I know that egress is required but it sounds like two of the three are required so can you tell us which of the windows are the required for egress windows and which one is now required and if there's one that's not required why explain why you want it please also the North and South were those would also act as egress windows the one in the rear is just additional light okay without floor plans it's you know these are the questions that I'm asking because there's there's no floor plan so it's you're just providing
031the information okay that's adequate that's what I wanted to know thank you you're welcome any other questions thank you you may be seated thank you moving on to the moving on the public hearing are there any members of the public who would like to speak on this agenda item no close the public hearing portion of the application what any Commissioner I'd like to make a motion on this application I move that the commission issue its a certificate of appropriateness for the application at 410 South Division Street a contributing property in the East William Street historic district to install three skylights as proposed the work is compatible an exterior design arrangement texture material and relationship to the rest of the building and the surrounding area and meets the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation and
032guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings in particularly standards to nine and ten and the guidelines for roofs windows and building site as well as the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines particularly as they pertain to windows I think between between this and a dormer is definitely better named one guys yeah flat roof not me in any way it's certainly a character finding teacher and having that the expansive flat roof so dormer would certainly break that up and it would change the character because the dormers have exists on this house are very few and far between and when they are there they're kind of cute and quirky especially I like the one on the back so I'm okay with the skylights as is especially the low profile aspect of them you know they will still have some
033shininess to them they're gonna be called out someone's gonna see them it doesn't really matter my mind about that it's really about whether it meets the guidelines and so in terms of the guidelines I think it's you know it meets the size scale in relationship it doesn't just attract much from the other massive character to finding features of a heavy I agree with what I'm hearing I think that this it will take away something from this house to see the skylights I think a lot has already been taken away from this house if someone wants to you know refurbish this house to its historic grandeur the skylights if they want to take them away can be easily taken away so that's good that meets one of the standards obviously I was happy to hear that
034the non egress window skylight was on the rear elevation if it wasn't I think that we may have a very serious discussion about what about that skylight but I think that even though there's that very adorable dormer on the rear elevation this might take away doesn't destroy that in my mind so yes yes this is 436 South 7th Street in the Old West Side historic district it's a two and a half story gable fronter that features a full width front porch with charged concrete walls and tapered square half columns wide wood lap siding with mitered corners a two-story addition was built on the south side you see it over here over here sometime after 1947 it is on the west side of South 7th Street between West Liberty and West Madison streets it's in the
035flood plain and partially in the flood way and the applicant is seeking SEC approval to shorten the height of an original window opening by raising the sill six inches that's this window here on the side and to replace our rear window and opening with a new door and opening and you know in a small deck so this window is it's obviously pretty visible from the street what they like to do is shorten at six inches to accommodate a new kitchen layout and it's uh it's an old wood double hung window it's there there is something in the staff report that that the contractor thought at first that it was or they were replacements ashes but he confirmed that they are not replacements ashes they're just old you know in old shape not neither terrible nor
036terrific and then this is just around the corner on the back same thing old sashes this is proposed to be replaced with a door leading to a very small six by four foot deck that's that's doesn't go all the way to the corner and then a couple steps would come down to spit you out at the driveway there is there's there's a back door here on the side but it's one of those you know up and down stairwell doors I would imagine off the basement steps and so this would be a little more practical to get in and out of the house to be able to use the backyard site drying for post six before foot deck and I really did measure these out to make sure that they were different but it's only six
037inches so it doesn't really show up and here's the back it's us it's a single full light window door there's there's door information in the packet this is actually drawn with stairs dumping you all behind the house the stairs would actually dump you off to the side toward the driveway we confirm that a site visit I don't think it really matters either way and such a small stoop I think that it's appropriate whichever way works the best and there's some rail detail it's appropriate it's just simple two by two-inch balusters yeah this is though this is the one that's that the contractor said they want to use and then there's a small kitchen plan so you can see how the kitchen would work with the sink in front of the shortened window and the new
038backdoor door information in there the windows are proposed to be used are are clad with clad windows I believe that they're clad with aluminum though I'm I don't think I put that in the staff report if the windows if that one window is to be shortened I think that that's appropriate because once the opening is shortened it loses some of its historic proportions and then why I put an all wood window in there so when I wrote the staff report I was sort of going on the basis that they were not historic sashes so that does influence things a little bit from the secretary Interior standards I read to you number two number 5 says that distinctive materials features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved and
039I've already read you'd number 9 the guidelines for windows it's not recommended to change the number location size are glazing pattern of windows through cutting new openings blocking in windows installing replacements ash which was does not fit the historic window opening also not recommended as removing or radically changing windows which are important in defining the historic character of the buildings that as a result the character is diminished from the guidelines for accessibility recommended is designing new or additional means of access that are compatible to start building in its setting I think more appropriate is this entrances and porches it's recommended to design and install additional entrances or porches when they're required for the new use in a manner that preserves the historic character of the building that is limiting such alterations to non character to
040finding elevations it's from the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines it's appropriate to install a new porch and entrance on secondary elevations does not diminish the building's architectural character and it's compatible with the building and the site so ok there's the house of you know standing good-looking house things I kind of want to point out was the window pattern so typically we might see houses that have a very rhythmic window pattern and you can see on the front it is fairly well balanced underneath the gable known on the side elevation and we've got it all over the place and it made me think about how some of these windows have probably progressed over time and some of the been added and that's where the thing and even the gable up top and even looking at
041the gable going around it doesn't seem to fit exactly so it made me think that you know I certainly adapted and changed over time with this and so that little window that they're trying to shrink up is another good example of how all these windows had different rhythms and different patterns so it's shrinking up a little bit more would not really be all that much noticeable I think it would be pretty different if we had a whole rhythm of pattern of windows that we're all pretty symmetric or what view and and we were changing just one of them a little bit it would still be kind of impactful so that's one aspect and then the porch on the back you know having it there I don't think really changes the character defining feature of the
042house in terms of the rhythm of these windows because that one down there is a little off anyway and we did look to see and we could see that it was kind of joined in at some point it is a smaller window that was there at one point we could see some of the siding that was replacing it so you could tell there was at least a window there at some point we don't know what the exact size of it but so putting in a door into that area and how it aligns would all just change the overall appearance a little bit that we could talk more in the motion but that's that's generally what we saw I agree with both miss Thatcher and commissioner Beeson um the only thing I just thought that I
043had regarding I think as commissioner of Easton stated shortening the window I don't think is really a big deal especially due to the changes in the rhythm in heights of these windows but it will be a new window so we're basically just scrapping the existing original windows that was you know it being on a side elevation it makes me pause a little bit but it is toward the rear I say it's the you know most character defining window of the house at all so I think in that sense that it's okay but just something to think about the jack is completely inconspicuous from the street view maybe you might see the stairs kind of peeking out at the end of the driveway there but I think it's it's fairly small there I noticed a neighbor
044has actually a pretty large deck what the applicant please come forward provide your name for the record and please sign it and if you have anything to add to the staff report or review committee report Tim Rayburn I'm the Builder for the project I don't you guys handled it fine good job do you have any questions for me it's clarification so the 48 inches that's referenced here that's the height of the window opening what's the sill height from the floor floor gonna be just above the new countertop so like 42 the new countertop height is 40 36 so we're gonna be just like six inches above that okay yeah we're just getting just enough to get above that countertop okay thank you what is in that dormer there that there's the louvers and is it
045access to the Attic or ever made it up there okay I think it's a bad house yeah same question now may I add with a previous application are you gonna try and keep the sashes yes yes any other questions thank you Thanks I'm the public hearing are there any members of the public who would like to speak on this agenda item say none I'll close a public hearing portion of the application what any Commission I'd like to make a motion all right I move that the Commission off the top of my head I'll just say this out loud right I move that the Commission issue a certificate of appropriateness for the application at 436 South 7th Street the contributing property in the old west side historic district to shorten the height of original window opening
046by raising the sale six inches and installing a new aluminum clad window and to replace a rear window and opening with a new door and opening and a small deck the pro pro their proposed work is compatible in exterior design or anything texture material in relationship to the rest of the building and surrounding area and meets the Secretary of Interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for reopening historic buildings in particular standards to 5:00 9:00 to 5:00 and 9:00 and guidelines for Windows accessibility entries and porches as well as the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines particularly as they pertain to residential porches support that Commissioner consume supported a second Commissioner wait Gio did you get the aluminum clad versafine yeah I'm just looking that up in the packet though it is Andersen 400 yeah it
047was aluminum clad that's a door has aluminum clad sat jams yeah hey yeah doesn't that say the Anderson that's actually in the packet that's actually a vinyl cloud when you know okay okay white plaid window with a wood interior yeah is there a discussion on the motion I always thought there was something with the vinyl clad issue is that no longer am I just dating myself on this Commission in terms of appropriate yeah appropriateness of material selection for window cladding no you mean versus aluminum yeah or versus no planning um personally I kind of prefer vinyl because sometimes you get more of a profile the aluminum often ends up just looking flat on the exterior more like a commercial window okay but I haven't done that exercise either in years to look at them both
048side by side okay maybe that's what it was about one time ago yeah maybe something about how it finished off or something yeah I remember okay yes so any other discussion all those in favor of motion please say yes yes yes all those opposed please say no the motion carries your application has been approved please note that you must apply for any required permits from the city before beginning work on your project this l-shaped two-story brick commercial building was built in 1918 and the first occupant was proc nose Garage the front facade was remodeled in 1975 by Eden alley with new brick shortened 2nd floor windows and an all-new first floor storefront I think that the windows on the second part actually weren't shortened I think it's just once I found an original photograph I
049think I was mistaken photo from 1973 is at the end of the report I'm sorry I don't have that in the staff report but you can see the original garage opening and despite the changes to the facade the building is a contributing to historic structure in the Main Street historic district so what you're looking at here on the front really nothing original about it at all the window openings on the second floor when they put the new brick facade on veneer on it seems to have gotten a little narrower like this and between is a little bit wider and these are a little wider so these are slightly narrower overall so originally there were four one over one windows in this space and they're proposing to put in three which I think is appropriate given
050that it's a little bit narrower than it used to be and then obviously nothing down here is original that the photo from 1975 or 1973 is is kind of telling you can see how it used to have some interesting little details even though it's a pretty modest building here's the side it's this sculpted block and that goes all the way around the side of the building one of the the work items they'd like to do is to remove this third floor which is not constructed very well from what I understand from inspectors and replace it with a smaller just a doghouse on the roof for the the stairs to exit out of with a small roof deck a couple of skylights and then a fenced-in area behind the new building to put mechanicals in there's
051there's a there's a gate here there are stairs going down this this hill slopes off very steeply it looks like a small two-story building from here but when you get around to the back it's a big building and you can see the l-shape here where it very oddly kind of juts out this part I believe is behind Hathaways hideaway which is completely surrounded on three sides by other buildings and there's just a little the top of that third floor that was added on at some point this this third floor that exists is from the period of significance you can see it on 19 are assumed to be you can see it on 1948 aerial photos but there's really nothing character-defining about it I'd never even knew it was there until I had to look really
052hard to take these pictures to see it lots of windows have been replaced I think all the windows have been replaced on the front and the back and the side this is an existing fire egress stair that was recently rebuilt in exactly the same location and the applicant is seeking approval to remove that rooftop structure and replace it with a smaller stair enclosure build up the roof 1 foot 8 inches from the existing roof plane let's let's keep going through these a minute and they'll tell you that when we get to it so here's the proposed some perspective drawings we've got we've got these windows with with operable lower small sashes and large expensive expanse of glass on the first floor and the glass goes almost all the way to the ground which is kind
053of interesting and then here you can see this smaller roof enclosure and then right up here this is really the best drawing to see it there's that the roof is built up and really need the applicant to talk about that a little more because it wasn't clear why they're building that up I'm sure it's required for some reason I just don't know what it is and it's also inset slightly from the corner and I'm not sure why that isn't it doesn't go all the way to the back of the building it stops about here but that shows up better on the elevation drawings there is at your seat a new a set of handouts we updated them and sent them to me a couple days ago so they're not in the slideshow but you should
054look at them here they do have clouds for all the changes and there were some clarifications and that the red lines are turned off which makes them a little bit easier to read so if we're looking at something specifically we should jump back to those existing South elevation this is the side facing the little houses that marched on Ashley this would be much strong kits a little bit taller but you know it's so far back on the building it's not really gonna matter a small patio fenced in a couple of skylights all of these windows are shown as double hugs and I don't know that any of them are double hugs right now so I would like confirmation of whether or not those aren't being replaced and if so with what I think it would
055be great if they were all replaced this is the proposed north section there's an existing north section in the new handouts and then we've got the West elevation on the back both the existing and the proposed show the same windows so that's why I'm a little bit confused since there were all kinds of windows on the back right now this structure on the third floor it's gonna be a little more visible from the back because it's a little bit taller but this is just a big parking lot down by Schenker's hardware it's common for several properties and you might see it from West Liberty if you look really hard you might see the one that's there today if you look really hard but I really don't think it's gonna detract from anything roof plans are
056to describe to you and some mechanical units yeah this is Hathaways hideaway right now the old second word public building there's some photos of what's up there now guardrail details and then there are some basic floor plans in the packet another part of the application is for signage this is an example of a laser-cut address sign that would go on the front at the top and this is an example of signs letters that would be pin mounted into that stepped brick on the front and I'm gonna go back up there so you can see that so you can see how though the brick steps up here this this this is a whole little bump out and actually these are this is some trim and some dentals that would be up here that the sign is
057proposed to go and then this is the macaron or what they call those the name of the building which would be replaced with that laser-cut address sign so and and the the sign on the first floor above the storefront is just there as a placeholder so that I can staff approve something that comes in at that size are smaller if this passes tonight I do think that it's appropriate and this is a big panel but it kind of looks like it's already pulling out of the building and I don't mind if it's replaced with the other side again where this is not an original storefront at all we're just trying to get a little bit closer but really we can't you can't even really simulate the original at all with what we're working with here
058so really it's it's to be compatible with other older structures in the district and and not detract from them I really don't think that any of the changes proposed will have anything but good effects on the neighbors this is a rather homely remodel to this storefront so I think that everything that's proposed is a good idea there were just a couple of questions outstanding about the work let me see if I anything in the staff findings a small improvement that I have not talked to the applicant at all about might be to use equal sized sashes on these front windows but again since this whole front facade of the building is so modern that's I don't think it's that important because it's still not gonna get much of the historic character back its most important
059that they're using the existing opening size and the storefronts pretty cool it's it's pretty simple it's aluminum it was a dark color if I remember correctly black matte finish insulated glass I really like the transparency of it and yeah I think that it's it's appropriate and and pretty low-key so really staff finds the work as conditioned what was the condition oh that the signs were mounted through mortar joints not masonry units is appropriate and meets the standards and guidelines thank you so this this is a pretty big building oh it does not look like here to be just from the initials facade of the street but it goes back pretty far on the lot the Lots pretty deep um we did we spent a lot of time in the front just kind of trying to
060look at the existing facade as Miss Thatcher indicated it's not original it was done in the 60s 70s and it actually kind of wraps the brick itself wraps around the CMU and it's kind of hard to tell from this photo but it it extends past that sculpted block a little bit and kind of hug this out so it's really just kind of tacked on so and there's an existing steel lintel now kind of demarcating that overall height of the at the transom top of the transom window there so I think as far as everything goes with this door for with what's being proposed it's pretty much fine within the proportions of scale in massing of what we don't really see in a storefront itself the as the building is pretty much sculpted block with some
061other CMU block walking around the back of the building it's it is three stories it's pretty expansive in more punched openings that that addition on the topper that the third story piece it's actually although it's pretty big and it comes forward you don't notice it that much to be at the beginning but then you start looking you start seeing those other little features that there aren't a whole lot of other character defining features the property itself so I think a lot of what is being proposed is you know scaling back the addition and adding more would say historic historically compatible scale is I think appropriate I mean it is a solid three stories you can see in the back and then with this roof thing on top it's four stories right downtown it's kind of
062weird tucked away in there it has a terrible water mitigation going on with the whole thing can you go to the front elevation again like okay so that that brew thing was actually there already to savor up there so Jill you would thought that that was being added or something on top of it cuz I see it as drawn here and I think they're just cleaning it cuz it just will West and when he comes out you're looking too far up on that picture you're looking on top of them yeah down there yeah and this just says eight and eight was just existing roof facade to remain no parapet and paint so I think they're just what you mean that is but it's still it's like something was added across this whole roof to give
063it some slope so there's no parapet wall so you could see this like cascading gutters along the side which are all not working great so you know the building is being addressed I'm kind of a kind of aesthetic scale of some windows and and fixing the roof access but in terms of like the water treatment on actually protecting it and maintaining the formed blocks especially those when they was get water in them they starts falling like mad so to me there's not a lot of work being done to kind of address the water issues of the building but here this application is really just trying to hone in on on getting some of the basic aspects of it going you know I can make it a rentable property again maybe something ok so that's one
064part of it the brick on the outside on the front facade was definitely added there's this giant lintel steel in tool that goes across the whole front of it right at that elevation and it's it's kind of the old version of Steel lentils with no weep holes and flashing so that has some foaming science issues in my mind so I feel like if they're gonna do anything in the storefront we're gonna ask the owner when they come up about that aspect so it's kind of a neat little building that we don't really notice very much so now you will start noticing it that's good the bad patan please come forward and provide your name for the record in it Chris burgers Milford Michigan big architecture this buildings obviously like kind of little two-story but it's
065full of surprises I should yeah so the to clarify on first like since you got that facade up that that top white part it was just we're just gonna clean that up we're not planning to increase the roof height on that front and if you can go to like a little side chat the side corner we're not going to touch the roof that starts from the facade up to the current three-story building so that roof will sort of stay in the exact same we're not touching the structure right there so we'll just clean up that little area that will top area and then try to reroute the water as best we can and if you go back to the front facade we're gonna have to add new lintels to hold up that whole entire star
066front so that'll will fix all the bright via brick get the weep holes and flashing on the right right spot at that time so we'll be able to resolve some of that as far as the side and rear windows our intent is that we want to replace them all with this with the same window and so that's why we're just showing a double hung on all the sides I don't know the historic has any suggestion on what windows if we just replace them is aluminum like that or if double hung just a window would be if any difference it's cuz it's kind of like no windows is the same and we want to make them all the same one you tell us you know you propose something oh yeah well we're proposing the double hung
067so I don't know if there's any issue with that we might not purple windows up there and give it a little a little less commercial feel on both sides and then those gutters and all that we're gonna redesign that roof where the old third storey was to hold rear up the water on the other directions and then obviously the rear we kind of need the guardrails because we're going to put rooftop units up there and that'll kinda act as a screen and in the safety you're resolving safety issues so we're cleaning this thing up as best you can I mean there's even a basement below that that floor there too so let's even there's even a whole nother level down down below so it's it's a crazy little building it's the basement under the whole
068thing Chris the whole l-shape Wow yep it's got like poured concrete below that basement and then then there's that level which on the exercise is actually the biggest one for that level so it's right now it's like five storeys when we're cutting it down just cutting it down and we're only using the little roof to access all the mechanicals and the patio on the roof so that's the intent of the upper doghouse nice and questions good so right now this image shows the railing going all the way around which I keep this photo okay so that means the railing would be continuous along this image so we would we would really see that railing from here in fact that would be the biggest part that we would see in this elevation so where are the
069mechanical units actually being located on that portion there actually plan we'd like to I mean we can eliminate this one pulsar here the only reason the guards there's really two okay so if we can squeeze these up here with engineer we could possibly eliminate this whole we could actually eliminate the whole okay the whole thing it would prefer to but I'm showing it in case that's the worst case do we have three units now I think the engineers gonna have we have two we're gonna get down to two units for sure so if we can get these things located away from the edge of the roof we will we don't want it I mean we don't want to do that because this is so noticeable but we really have to do it okay and then
070the roofing material on the new roof on the new little doghouse thing is that it's it's drawn as kind of a standing see yeah we were gonna do this we're gonna do that as a standing seam and undo the rest of us Annie PD am I remembering okay those are my questions for now any other questions on the on the long facade on the side where you're gonna replace the windows what what type of windows are you proposing we had a vinyl clad it's another question alright for this jumping to the center we want to talk about the sign right now or I have a sign question will there also be for the storefront is that going to be illuminated and if so how are you providing electrical to the illumination really the question is
071is that going to be concealed or are you gonna have conduit running on the exterior the I guess the ideas we'll put a box because we all know the tenant name just yet we'll put a box right in the center behind the sign and have it just like good letters sticking up off the sign so like we could put the electrical through be dual junction box and then the sign can go over top of it okay I'm on this elevation I think we had a question when we were out there we're gonna need a mouse here Jill where it's on the first floor where it says equal equal on either side the right and far left we were contemplating their death well it's the building is like not centered yeah so that little extension is
072is there we're trying to get rying to make it centered if we can on those sides of that storefront on the front facade so would you trim down one time yeah of the storefront site inside the storefront yeah so right right here yeah we're trying column would be narrower yep we're gonna try and cut that back a little bit and we're gonna stick two columns in each side of the opening and run our beam okay inside it in the storefront Wilhite no column all right yes it's an odd geometry because the one site from the front it looks symmetrical but actually it's not symmetrical in the building because it sticks out yeah all right I know that we took that question or out there so we're just took a column on each side and one
073in the middle the steel column and cover it with just two back and you may have noted this or mentioned this D where it's just stated here you'll build up the roof 1 foot 8 inches from the existing roof plane can you just clarify which roof plane that is oh it was my error okay I think that's what Chris was talking about what they said so not building up the roof where what what happened is like when you look at the front elevation there's a roof coming and the third floor is actually like you can't see it from the any view but it's actually sunk it's inside the underneath the roof line so we're just gonna try to match that level so it may actually not be as tall as what's shown but it may
074actually be a few inches shorter once we get the once we get the new steel and floor engineered for the new roof torn from that third from what you were saying like from if you look at the picture on the left yeah if you see the picture and left see the line towards the front yeah right before this that's like the existing roof line and where that hits the bearing is actually a little bit lower the third floors actually was lowered okay done that point so we're trying to keep that level okay so it looks like in the existing photos the gutters sort of stepped down in the back but on this they look like they're continuous is there an intent to change where once we get that little roof designed very try and keep
075the gutters and clean up the triangles route the water and a better better wait okay so right now we're trying to fix that whole side up okay so it's shown here in the end the new drawings is proposing yeah we're gonna try and get it cleaned up on the side is that and since of pitches in the middle the high point is in the middle is that means you have gutters on both sides we could we yeah we'll probably have two sides one side but the right side we gotta get the water not going on the building there's a building and actually below actually be on the right building there's actually it's only too strict for a little while there's actually a pit like from the first floor roof of the second though it's like
076a it's a kind of inter interesting intersection of buildings because this building actually does connect to the owner actually owns the whole u-shape and the building on the right is actually inside the youth it's one u-shaped parcel yes that's a union yeah he heals all u-shape and someone else owns in the middle the other side or no no I suppose so these technically you can technically cut through to that it also has that same brick and there any other questions for the applicant just one thing if the owner ever decides that he wants to open up any of those windows on the side that are infield super easy staff approval okay to see that I'm sorry if I know aluminum clad okay sorry then that would be for all replacement alright moving on the public
077hearing are there any members of the public who would like to speak on this agenda item seeing them I will not close the public here portion of the applications public hearing portion of application would any Commissioner like to make a motion on this application appropriateness for the application at 300 South Ashley Street the contributing property in the Main Street historic district to one remove the third-floor rooftop structure and replace it with a smaller stair enclosure and patio to build up the roof one foot eight inches from the existing roof plane three replace the upper windows on the front elevation with aluminum windows for replace the existing storefront with a new aluminum and glass storefront system and five installed two signs on the front elevation on the condition that the signs are mounted through the mortar
078joints not masonary units the work is conditioned is compatible and exterior design arrangement texture material and relationship to the rest of the building and the surrounding area and meets the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines for storefronts windows additions and signs and the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings in particular standards 1 2 9 and 10 and the guidelines for storefronts windows building site alterations for new use and additions support by Commissioner Fortner seconded by Commissioner wait just one correction if you'd like to make a friendly amendment we should have struck number 2 and remember the ones after it because there isn't any work proposed Walter's I mean there's but there's not building it up one-point-eight yes we put 8 inches do you want to renumber the other
079ones yeah I would just I'm proposing that you strike two and then make the other ones a two three four well I don't I don't think those things need to all be listed out because there's lots of things like the skylights aren't listed here the railings not listed here because they're shown I wish that they had been on the original application which would make it a little bit clearer but I really don't think it was that everything but feel free to if that makes you more comfortable I'm just gonna strike the numbers is there a discussion on the motion yes I'm trying to find the guideline portions of it though well the railing in the back is mine nice to clean point but I'm trying to find it in the guideline so give me a
080second if there's other stuff to talk about which I'm sure there might be I could bring up some other things like I'm good with the window replacements I think that'll certainly help to provide a really good rhythm if they all look the same they're the same material and that's where thing glad to hear that they're aluminum that way they match the storefront aluminum and I kind of characterizes all the way through its kind of office more environment the doghouse on top seems okay to kind of scale it the way it is the storefront adjustments seem all right - especially since this is not an original storefront to begin right I think that was all the major issues yeah oh the signs in the way that the signs are being located seems okay - that was
081gonna add the more to join thing you know it's like it's already in there and that seems good - so I'm gonna keep looking at this about the railing issues is there any other discussion I mean whoever the way you're gonna shrink it down as much as you can but part of that's a safety issue yeah but as it stands now if we approve this he can build it overlay across right that's raddest isn't one I may not be his plan but he can't I just would like to comment that I appreciate the effort being made to bring some order back to this elevation even though kind of been modified quite a bit over its last time you know the especially the first floor storefront area it could have been done in a different way
082and it's kind of a bringing back the order that it may have had originally not garage doors but that the center column and kind of a symmetric composition of it kind of correcting what was done yeah can you bring up the rear elevation the the the requirement for a barrier there is anything if a rooftop Ian is like within like 10 feet of a roof so we could say that a barrier would be provided only for the in ten feet of the mechanical unit I mean then we will just only make it as minimal as it needs to be the other options could be do with a glass option or it technically only has to be a safety rail which it doesn't have to have all the horizontal lines it could just be a safety
083rail so be yeah there's a simpler one any of those things would probably make it less you know yeah we could do the very minimal barrier possible so we could just make it one rail with one middle horizontal and the lines that meet OSHA yeah can you stand this photo that shows that freer so it comes down there in kind of a theme I about the character to find new features right and here we have a rear elevation with kind of a hodgepodge of what is character feature basically you know and it's like well if this railing does go up there would it really destroy the character to find new feature well and mine you know it would certainly change the size scale and relationship with how it how the building reads I mean the
084that's the part the owner looking at the owner does believe would not want to pay to do it all fuses in half - but then if we only do a little bit like 20 foot section up there's is that worse than all the way around I would say it's to me right now it's trying to find where in the guidelines it would say you know can't have this railing because it's gonna destroy the character to find it features of ability right something like that yes if there's a safety and health standpoint we need something it doesn't have to be a beautiful railing I mean it could be any anything to stop them it could be glass it could be just a couple bars because how much clearance do you need around the air handling units
085the well three feet yeah all the way around so the railing could be as close to the units as we could do that we could offset it and you try and keep it as close to the top like we see it in the draw an elevation but in the actual perspective of standing on the sidewalk and looking up the building if you're putting it three feet we're not even gonna see it I could do that we could just say it'll be only in the minimum clearances around the unit to access that's much much better yeah it's right to the building edge or right now it's drawn what it's drawn as you can as close to the units as you're allowed that would be better cuz it would definitely fade away a little bit yep and
086some shiny materials yeah and since it's the three units were shown where I've actually got down the two units so we're actually you know shouldn't be able to cut it back so yeah it's it's kind of general using compatible screening around mechanical equipment but this is more for stuff on the ground such as vegetation and fencing installing new air conditioning units and Riegel is the related mechanical equipment and such a matter that historic materials and features are not damaged or obscured installing mechanical equipment and wiring and locations on the roof rear elevations or an ALICE they are not visible from a street they're all pretty general about not changing or destroying character defining features and materials yeah and that's how the health and safety one mentions things as well identifying the historic building buildings character
087finding spaces features and finishes so the code required work will not result in their damage or loss complying with health and safety codes including seismic codes and such an another character finding spaces features and finishers are preserved the minimum put at minimum the minimum to allow access to mechanical the smallest railing system can you amend emotions yes so we're adding a condition yeah after the sign yeah a motion I move that the Commission issue a certificate of appropriateness for the application at three one two South Ashley Street a contributing property in the Main Street historic district two one remove the third floor rooftop structure and replace it with a smaller stair enclosure and patio to replace the upper windows on the front elevation with aluminum windows three replace the existing storefront with a new aluminum
088and glass storefront system and four install two signs on the front elevation on the condition that the signs are mounted through the mortar joints not masonry units and that the railing required for the rooftop mechanical units will be installed as far from the roof edge as is allowed by safety code the work is conditioned as compatible in exterior design arrangement texture material and relationship to the rest of the building in a surrounding area and meets the Ann Arbor historic district design guidelines for storefronts Windows additions and signs and the Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings in particular standards one to nine and ten and the guidelines for storefronts windows building site alterations for a new use and additions support that motion has been a minute by commissioner Fortner
089and supported by commissioner wait any further discussion are we ready for all those in favor say yes yes those opposed say no the motion carries your application has been approved please note that you may you must apply for any required permits from the city before beginning work on your project on to new business the first item is a revised conflict of interest policy so we are a certified local government we are certified by the state to start Preservation Office and they require as part of their CLG standards that we use their conflict of interest policy I had this in the attorney's office read it and all he said was it says pretty much the same thing in a lot more words so it's fine so I would like you guys to approve this and then
090when we change our annual retreat when we change our bylaws and I make a motion that we approve and revise the conflict interest policy it draft by Michigan State Historic Office of preservation mr. Mason I have a question about this now that we've what is the historic preservation fund okay okay so is it specific I guess I was just curious about like what conflicts of what interests to what well they they spell it out in here though some of its they it's a little bit clunky because it feels like it's written for state employees yeah okay but this is the one that they gave us that they told us that we need to adopt so but what if one of us on the on the Commission wants to work on a project where we're trying
091to get landmark status is that that's what I was what I was like curious about like our work that we're all doing on the side I understand about conflicts of interests they come before this panel is it just referring to that or yes okay yes it seemed very broad like it's very specific to the hearings coming before us okay I understand yes yeah thanks ok next g2 annual retreat scheduling right it's the year everyone pull out your calendars let's do it the sooner the better for me as last year when the pipe season starts up I'm out ok ok we do this on a Saturday morning from about 9:00 to noon not here though he just went to bed so if you'd like we can look at this at the end of February I'm out
092that weekend okay we're never gonna buy it then we also have to look at Spring Break which is that would be the weekend of the 28th of March I can't do it Katie March 7 March 7 I could do if I bring my that's before the 7 oh yeah is that the big 10 tournament that's before it's yeah the madness has not truly begun March 7 possible we're talking about the morning a morning meeting so we're 7 March 14 arch 7 and March 14 yeah [Laughter] what you don't want to you don't want to stand around and listen to us talk about our calendars Jill what it's helpful to just throw out three or four dates and then we can all tell you where would you like it to be any city buildings or facilities
093out of the park Senior Center right away it's just this one I was thinking was this small little building it's really I'll have to find out because when Mary Hathaway was running it she didn't charge me for HDC stuff and rented of it I don't know what her son's policy is if there's a fee we probably can't because we can use a city facility for free but I can ask him yeah nextdoor it's a cool thank you I'll come up with a tentative agenda if you guys know of items that you really want to talk about let me know we've I've made a list of them throughout the year and as they come up so I'm gonna just kind of distill it down into the ones that seem like the most timely or else if
094I can't decide I'll let you vote yeah okay thank you there's one set of minutes here or January 9 [Applause] minutes reports from commissioners assignments is my name March night I know March 12 you probably didn't say Monday March 9 yeah right Monday March 9 still it dude I could do it alright if no one else is wanting to jump in anyone else nope you've done her like the last three which is okay that's - I think this I was before that with a Nana's done the last - okay um yeah Jon we're gonna take you up on that March 9th David John March 9 thank you any reapportion stuff yeah the Stephanie's is really boring whenever he questions but lots of read on not much else two things to report on I did apply
095for a new ship Oh CLG grant - OH - survey 250 properties in the Old Fourth Ward yeah because the Old Fourth Ward was surveyed in the 1980s in a very partial sort of approach where the significant really cool buildings about 125 of those were surveyed to death and the rest of them were just kind of put contributing yeah and and and things have changed and it needs to be resurvey it's too old anyway so the grant is to cover most of that but they had a little bit of Connecticut properties so the way I pitched it was well if you guys will come in and survey those that have never been done the city will resurvey the 125 more significant buildings that we already have a lot of history had so I'll let you
096know if that comes through and then the other thing is the historic preservation conference in May bobwhite expressed an interest if any of you have an interest in attending I don't think that the brochures are even out yet but it's always in May it'll be in Kalamazoo this year if you'd like to go let me know because we can see if we can send one or two or three of you I'm planning to go and Kalamazoo is cool and I has a lot of beer that's it for staff thank you thank you any concerns of commissioners question so the mural decided we approved the mural I mean you brought this up before I think it's yeah they added they they got tagged so he approved the mural over all that paint and then it happened
097again and they did paint in big letters Aventura I don't know if that ever got a sign permit or not it probably did because there was a crackdown on that at one point I don't even call it ever the HDC though yeah it's something that's weighing heavy on your conscience I look into it communication old both sides newsletters in your packet there's a good article about the Old West Side historic district in that yeah ray sheckman uh very interesting history good recommended reading Ann Arbor historic district Commission meeting you