001go ahead and call this meeting to order um Angela Rasmussen here Christian schwag over here Lisa Staedtler here Robin is not here Kathleen summers Gil Nisha Turner Tolbert mark Howell here Kristin Marcum okay we do have a quorum of the board we don't have an oath yeah that is term expired so we'll deal with that part after so you just won't have voting power during this meeting okay okay thank you second okay is that better okay thank you sorry I always forget about this part so we have a motion and a second to approve the agenda all in favor aye opposed all right agenda is approved next up on the agenda is the approval of the minutes we have the HBA minutes from February 13th of 2018 which I believe was the last time we
002met I motion to approve the minutes from February 2018 all right I have a motion I second that all in favor okay minutes from February 13 2018 pass next up is the appeal action and show cause hearing we have the HPA 20 - 2 0 0 1 appeal for 2810 Elmwood Avenue could we have the staff report for that please yes we could my name is Mark Hall deputy building official representing the Housing Board of Appeals of the rental housing program good afternoon chair and board thank you for being here as just stated we are here for HB a 20 - 0 0 1 at 2810 Elmwood Avenue representing for the property owners are Jennifer bishop and Sarah Tanner a little background on the subject property house was built in the 1920s it appears to
003be original construction with one bedroom on the first floor and a finished loft space on the second floor the owner of the residence located at 20:10 Elmwood Avenue requests one variance variances second-floor loft space ceiling variance from 8 5 0 3 subsection 3 subsection B at least 50% of the required floor area every capital room with a sloping ceiling shall have a ceiling height of at least 7 feet which is 84 inches the floor area of that part of any room where the ceiling height is less than 5 feet 60 inches shall not be considered as part of the floor area and computing the total floor area of the room upon a field inspection the ceiling height was discovered to be 6 foot 7 inches section 8 5 1 5 subsection 2 of the entire
004housing cover the city of Ann Arbor housing code allows the Housing Board of Appeals to grant variances from the requirements of chapter 105 standards for approval practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship number 2 the variance does not violate the intent of this chapter and number three the variance does not jeopardize Public Health and Safety staff recommendation is that the variance should be denied okay are there any questions for staff I see that we've had the appellant in the audience too so I'd certainly want to hear from you as well before we make any further decisions but any questions for staff at this point okay hearing none could we hear from the appellant please if you'd like to I assume you do yeah hi thank you so much for coming today I'm Sarah Tanner hi [Music] and
005it before we live there it's probably one of the oldest if not the oldest homes in the neighborhood it has this original architectural that we've updated the interior but the upstairs room is the six foot seven it's always been used as a bedroom and it makes it possible if it is used as a bedroom for a couple or a small family to be able to live there it's a wonderful neighborhood with a really big yard we just love the house and we you know put a lot of money into keeping it up including we did a new roof a year ago and in 2014 we completely real both the basement and we would like to be able to offer it to a couple or a family with one child because we think it would be
006a perfect home for them it doesn't affect our rental price whether or not there's one person living there or small family living there we wouldn't charge more rent for it we just would like to have them to be able to live there just off a couple inches and it was built in the 1920s and in order to make that a couple inches higher we'd have to either raise the roof or take away ceiling that you walk into but there's barely any room off a couple inches rise and runs good everything else to code up a smoke detector that's hardwired with the house cable oh and there's plenty of natural light as well any questions for the appellant I have one and I don't know that it's pertinent to the issue did you buy the houses
007a 1-bedroom or a two-bedroom so it's is it legally listed I mean I know that that's kind of a tricky thing my pamphlet said 2-bedroom I mean what if the city say well there's I get there may be a difference between rental housing code and yeah sure an eagle property so I guess I drew Weston yeah real estate will list real estate agencies will list things as bedrooms or not when they don't actually meet the housing or the building code okay so they can really advertise it as whatever they feel like it sometimes does our city have it listed as a two-bedroom or just a one pitch um I'm not sure okay to this one other point to make is that I know that in city code that if there was to be a bedroom
008stay in a basement which we're don't have an are asking for then the requirement would be six foot eight and it's pretty close to that so I mean obviously people can live I have a question for staff why are you requesting that we deny the variance 7 inches or 7 foot is the minimum for ceiling height and this is 5 inches apart from that and so you deem that as is not appropriate for public health and safety being so low okay it does have a can lighting we saw the pictures thank you that was helpful to see and I think there's a person standing there yeah yeah have you priced out getting a like a doghouse dormer for a shed-dormer on under the second floor I'm never we just redid the roof but yeah that
009would interfere with the roof and the structure and we'd have to raise the roof or we could go straight up and raise the roof to but we're trying not to it's got nice hip roof so it matches the neighborhood sure but did you that's the matter no a question before discussion I'm this is not a historical district or is it just know I'm wondering why it's not relevant what the city has it listed as us a one-bedroom two-bedroom I think it's relevant I think we don't have that information I would request that information before we make a decision because I would like I think it's important to the conversation I think they're looking it's two bedrooms mmm it the space meets all the relevant cuz the the stairwell the grasp of a handrail the egress
010windows the hardwired smoke detectors the only thing is just the ceiling height is the door well going into the property the correct height also yeah into the space yeah I guess I'm questioning what the safety issue is for not calling it or not letting the variance go through if it made us all the other discussion yeah one and I looked at the report fully and a picture is it's a nice-looking space beyond the issue of not complying with you know the full seven feet where you would come around the stairs and enter into the space you're actually sloping from five foot just six foot seven so if you're if you split that in half where you're traveling down that that you're well below six feet to get to the stairway correct so I just put
011out there for consideration you know this is not approval of the way it's being used this is approval for evermore to you know sell this as a multi occupant unit and if you're talking a family that we understand to the first-floor bedroom is occupied by one person by code yeah so you're you're potentially talking multiple people living upstairs there's an area of three foot six between the stairwell and to where the right but sloping from five foot to six foot seven right so yeah a lot of you know as someone goes down the middle you're gonna be well under six foot to navigate yourself to get to the stairs I mean it doesn't slope at the peak at six foot seven there's an area that goes straight across so you can walk next to the
012stairwell and have it fully be six foot seven okay but six foot seven is at one peak is it it's not at a peak it goes like this that's all six foot seven to there to there and then it drops back I don't know where that you're right I'm the elevation it shows but yeah it doesn't show it in conjunction with those stairwell there is is there this can't really tell them also the step that is at the top of the stairs is below the floor of the stairs by one step pipe but as soon as you come up Thanks what's the closet situation up there we have an armoire available for renters but there isn't a built-in closet no closet with a door what's the what's the code requirement for closets in a bedroom
013is there one there's nothing that's just a real-estate thing did we find out what the city says about though I think there's two bedrooms that potentially wouldn't change the code it might change the tax assessment correct yeah that's what I was wondering is if they'd been paying taxes on a house for ten years it's a two bedroom what we tell them you can't use one of the bedrooms that I know that's a different subject than the safety issue just seems like something to consider what's your thought that's important distinction right I just I don't know that it is from a code for service as far as going to you know I mean looking at your tax assessment I guess I did put to the board - it's just I think you know we're forever changing
014how this can be listed and occupied is this and we have there we've seen things where it's very close it's just close enough you know to some degree in the ceiling height of six foot seven doesn't concern you as much as that you have a sloping roof that you know slopes down to five foot and you're navigating to the only means of egress through a space that's actually you know gonna practically be much lower than six foot seven you know right I cast my mind back two years ago we used to do site visits just see what it was like there lead me home I'm just wondering if there isn't a way that like make them you know make it so that really is the entrance I think into the if we're thinking about safety
015and code and failure I think that it probably is a hazard hitting your head at the top of a staircase is not the best place to do that right or conversely you know if there was an emergency trying to leave I think that's the part that we're trying to moreso discuss yeah and that's our job right yep that's our job but it does have two huge windows on each end and it has a hardwired smoke detector that talks to the whole house so there will be of a warranty and our were over the life like we have more natural light than we need as a rental space the rise and run and the whole money into it yeah it does would you feel more comfortable with the same visit before making a decision I think
016it could go either way and I think that if we're looking at cold and safety I can't think we need to go there and look at it because the other piece of information which I mean it's a very well-done appeal yeah I appreciate all the pictures and the schematics I mean for me that was super helpful good I think it was just kind of looking at what the ceiling height is adjacent to the stairway because realize it is sloped just does kind of figure out you know again within reason where we at because we realized that it's the maximum ceiling height but we have that over such a minimal portion of the room because of the structure and age of the home realize those are things we're not gonna necessarily change and the maximum ceiling
017height is still five inches or correct yep a lot of padding really really flush where the original inspector called it six foot eight but mark call it six foot seven okay it's over very plush carpet are we done with discussion I don't I don't have anything else if you don't so I think we could wrap up discussion and maybe make a motion excuse me I'll make a motion that we make a site visit people who make the final determination all right so we have a motion to table the decision until it's late as it can be made a second discussion on that so what we've done I think in the past is we've had a subset of the board go and represent and either provide a report back or have to site visits where like
018half of the board goes but thank you for reminding us that we need to adhere to the Open Meetings Act we're a little rusty since we haven't met in two years two years which is a testament the city being able to take care of everything through their normal process and not having to go to the appeal all right so we have a motion in a second we need to vote all in favor of the motion to do a site visit aye opposed okay so we're gonna we don't want to say no yet we want to take a look we'll try to schedule that in a timely fashion because we realize you're waiting you've probably already waited for a bit to get this appeal hard sure thank you very much all right thank you all right
019old business I'm not aware of any old business other than maybe just the structure of the board and making sure that we've got seats filled I know we had some vacancies two years ago I'm not sure if we stand with that sounds like we'll be meeting at least one more time this year okay yep okay to be determined whether I'll be filling the vacancy or not okay and new business I don't have any either all right reports from staff and communications okay public commentary our Pella took on I think we okay give it a few awkward seconds but alright then I would entertain a motion to adjourn not second that all right I'll make the motion in a second all in favor all right your adjourned thank you you