001All right, I'm going to go ahead and call this work session meeting into order for the discussion on neighborhood school zone boundary proposals. And Mr. Patrick, is there if I just give you the floor for now? >> Sure. Sure. So, what I thought we would do uh tonight is I've got Paige has pulled up the website. On the website, we have the neighborhood schools bar and she has built this website for us for our public to all information that we have in the things that we're doing. I want to make sure that the board knows of all the different things. She actually put a really good slideshow together. uh all of this stuff you have seen if you go on there but like first click on frequently asked questions. So what as we've been getting
002questions we put them on here we put them on the website site and answer them for people so that there there's a especially not every single question because these are the ones that are over and over we're getting but we also answered every email we've gotten uh and every other type of communication and tried to answer these questions. and put them up there. Uh you want to go to your public engagement slideshow. So I want to give PA a lot of props. So she put this together on the things that we've done so far and uh she's done a really good job. So, as you can tell, we've had 13 total parent sessions that were open to the public. We had 55 people attend. And we've had a survey that has been out since we
003started talking about this for several months. We've only had nine people complete the survey. So, our engagement, the numbers are not where we're at, but the people that we have talked to, we're super appreciative appreciated. Some other things that we've been able to do is I've met with superintendent advisory council three times now about neighborhood schools and had those conversations. Uh, they go out and get information. I have met with the chamber. they've sent out information. These are some of the questions and stuff or uh some of the comments I should say from parents. We've uh we've had six total sessions with staff. We had 319 of our certified staff members attend those out of about 340. We've asked every staff member to complete a survey that told us what we were trying to make
004sure when we when we get to the point where we're going to place staff that we know what they wanted. We asked them what was important to them, stay in their building, stay with their grade, stay with their subject, and we've had 164 of them. We've asked multiple times for them to complete. So, at this point, we've only got about half of our staff has actually filled the survey out, but we're trying to do do what we can here. And then we had some comments she had from uh from our staff. A lot of this stuff you guys have already heard and seen, but I want to go back I wanted Paige to to show this to you right here at the beginning that we are doing everything we can to make sure that we
005get as much feedback as we can from our community on this. So, and I will tell you that personally I have had still only had two parents with they were 100% against neighborhood schools have that I've talked to and one of the parents their kids are in high school and going to be gone in two years. they were notic anymore. And then the other one is I couldn't couldn't get many words in so I could I I couldn't really explain anything. She was telling me how much she thought how bad she thought it would be. So So I don't know. >> Is it? Yeah, probably. So, but overwhelmingly we have had super positive. Now, I don't think we got anybody that has even tried to argue that it's bad for kids in all. I think
006everybody agrees. It's really the question is where my for parents is where my where's my child going to go to school? And for teachers, it's where is their children going to have to go to school? What's the process there? and then where am I going to be placed as a teacher? And so how we go about doing those things I think is the critical crucial thing. And from this point I think we've been very uh deliberate and diligent about making sure that we've been transparent and open and um taking feedback and actually acting on the feedback like not just taking it in and say that we did. We've had some pretty good ideas. So, but to get to what we're the that brings us to where we're at. At the last board meeting, as you
007know, Zonda proposed these boundary proposals. Um, I know, um, we now had these for a few weeks from the board meeting and I think it's important tonight that you as a board individually can ask questions of things you have concerns about or questions that you don't understand or what you don't like, what you do like. Uh I will I know you know this as a work session there's no action item here so there's no vote we won't act there won't be a vote on anything it's just a conversation prepare and for us to give you the feedback uh that we've All right. So, I'll I guess I without a whole lot of talking, I'll kind of open it up, Chris, if you you guys want to ask questions you have or whatever that might be.
008>> I'm a little curious. Has any other board members had much input from people in your zones? The reason, let me preface that with why I'm asking that. When we started this discussion, I assumed this would be a very hot topic maybe so to speak. >> Um, and it's probably been the least topic of anything that I've been involved in while I've been on the board. Um the comments that I do get I have to solicit advice or opinions on. Um I have only had one person that was semi against it. They were retired and their whole reasoning was they just didn't think our town was big enough for this. So I sent them the YouTube link for the data behind our board meeting as to why we should do this. and she called me
009back a couple days later. She said, "You know, that actually makes sense. I I withdraw what I said and I I'm I support that." And she doesn't have she has grandkids in our district. Um but I think the I'll agree with Shane that I think we've done a really good job maybe particularly Paige as well. I'll give her kudos. um of getting the information up out front, but I just am not getting a lot of feedback from my zone other than this. Yeah, this is it's like it's a no-brainer what we need to do. Maybe the logistics like Shane said of how we go, how we implement it maybe another um aspect of it, but I just haven't. So, I was just curious if you all had heard much. We had a couple and those
010were mainly just saying they were curious about what the outcome would be. I would say my two kind of takeaways from just the the small amount my observation the small amount of feedback I've gotten is is number one I think the people who are thinking about this a lot and you know coming uh voicing their opinion I think are ones who know the need for it and I think it's because good communication um by Shane and your team and then um but the other one I think is people don't know what it's going to be and so it's kind of this unknown. So, I anticipate that we'll hear way more opinions about this once it's after we've done it, like after we've settled all the boundary lines. And I think there there will be a
011lot of feedback then. Not necessarily bad, you know. I think that I'm still pretty optimistic about it. Um but um but I think we probably should be realistic that we should be prepared for that. I think it will spare you know as kids get split up from their friends as teachers are unhappy with what school they get assigned to think that's natural. >> Yeah. I think that's when it's all quiet right now two years next year. >> Next August next that's when that's when it'll start. I'm really disappointed. That's not good. You know, >> it's really good. >> So, that tells me that everybody's just kind of complacent about it and I know parents will care. It's not they don't care. I think everybody just kind of, you know, until next year. You mean my
012kids got to go here and then I think that's when >> I was looking at someone's comment that said it took an hour to pick up two kids that are right there at two schools right beside each other and I'm like that to me speaks volumes that they get it. I mean yeah it may be uncomfortable and there may be some wind, you know, some things but just to eliminate some of those things in our traffic flow is huge. >> Yeah. I think the lack of feed I'm going to disagree with you. Lack of feedback to me is a win-win. I've sat on both sides of this table long enough, not quite long enough on this side, but still um the fact that folks aren't blowing up our phones and and blowing up your your
013phones is is not a bad thing. I mean, I think you've you've gotten it out there. We've had public our meetings are live streamed. We we did that a almost a month ago. Um, and I mean your website looks amazing. That's kudos. Absolutely. So, I don't know. I don't know what else. Maybe some social push some more push. >> One thing I will tell you that we have talked about is we've talked about as a team should we have more parent meetings. And what I think we the realization that we come up have come up with is if you as a board decide all right we're going to pick a zone plan and we're going to do this and we're moving forward then in the spring we're going to we're going to have more parent
014meetings once everything's finalized so that people can come in and ask individual questions. So the one thing we've had a lot of really good feedback from on the pe on the way we did things those parent meetings they like the fact that we brought our whole team we sat down and people could sit with an individual and have a conversation versus me stand up in front of 30 people and nobody can ask the question they really want to know. Uh I mean J those of you know Jennifer Heathco she is not shy about and that's why I asked her to be on our superintendent advisory council. She'll tell you exactly what she thinks. She's professional about it but she's just going to ask the questions. She said the the part of this best pro set
015part of the process been the best for her is the night she sat down with Michelle Peyton and they just sat and talked for 45 minutes about this and all this stuff and she was able to get all out and ask and and give her concerns and and all and so it's uh I am hearing positive things but to let you know about our plan is if this moves forward we're going to do all those meetings again. So then people can come in and ask, "Well, I live at so and so and what does this mean and how do I do this and all that kind of stuff and we'll have all we'll have more specifics that we can talk to them about individually and hopefully that'll help. I mean it's just another it's not
016like well it's done. We're moving on to something else." Like this is a process we're going to have to continue to educate for a while and uh we'll have to continue to work on it and go forward with it. I think just my thoughts are and I don't want to rush this at all. I think really getting the zones settled is going to give um maybe set a good level of expectation and then and then we'll prompt some questions. Sure. And um of course I don't want to rush it and we got want to give plenty of time for people to give feedback but but I think that will I think people are just on edge for lack of a better word on what does this mean for me >> right and and so that's
017why I think it's where it's so important we almost have to I feel like for us to be able to do this the way it needs to be done in a proper manner and I think our team would agree that we have to make a decision on the 18th. If we don't make a decision on the 18th as as a board that we're either doing it or we're not doing it, >> then I don't I'm not positive we can do it in a way that it's probably can get done in the manner that we're trying to do this thing. I think it would put us a month behind and it would be playing catchup for even if in January we decide to do it, we're still a month behind and we're playing catchup. So, I
018agree with you. I think we're we're going to have to make a decision to that point. I would like to see the whole process done to the level it's been done so far. I think it's been great. Openness, the communication. So, I I I wouldn't want to rush it. Also to Eric's point, um, if we can, you know, make the decision and move forward like we've done, ready to do so. So, is there as you look through your the the zone proposals? So, there is an elementary zone proposal one and an elementary zone proposal two. Before we move into the middle school zones, I'd like I'd like to like get any feedback questions that you have on >> what's the pros and cons to each one. I mean, what do you all what does administration
019think? >> Uh I mean I have I think we all we have we've all come to the conclusion. We have a proposal that we think is best overall for the district and that's taking like not looking at it as some of us are have kids at the district and not trying to look at it from a parent point of view but trying to look at it it is what's best for the district and I personally think and I I just think the proposal one is a better proposal and I'll tell you my thought process on that is the fact that proposal 2 creates a system creates a zone where in the future that Allen zone could turn into the halves and then the other two could either have end up being because a lot of
020that property up there has got either bare or it's new development And whereas if you look at zone one, it goes all the way. It's in north, middle, and south, and it goes all the way across the district. So you're spanning the district. So you're getting a a wide cut of everything. And I just think it's actually works better for us. And then it also, as Joe brought up last night, superintendent advisory council, it'll actually work better for our busing system. So, uh, bring up the the clo close view like that. That's zone one, right? >> Okay. So, if you look and see where north side is and where southside is. So, in zone in proposal one, all that neighborhood that's right across Tulsa Street can walk to Southside. They're right there. And so and
021proposal two, Tulsa Street basically becomes the line. So if you live across the street from Southside, you're going to North Side. >> Yeah. >> And it doesn't make a lot of sense to you. And not that this is coming up soon, but the goal, the end goal is to have four elementary school districts. I think it's a lot more feasible to naturally fit four lines that are running parallel than it is you have a chunk up here and then you know how do you work the fourth one >> probably have to redraw completely go to four >> down the road >> still like you easy >> and this makes more sense to me for the walking distance in those neighborhoods around those elementary schools and then also for busing because it creates some weird areas
022to try to figure out how do we get a route and the places we need to get routes to. It's just a kind of a weird and and they'll tell you Zand will tell you said proposal one is what they recommend cuz it's but then they have to give us some more. So they have to if you're take if you add some add some land to one you got to take some away from other if you're going to change it up you know That's and all. So the overwhelming feedback that we have gotten from parents, the ones who have reached out to us, u zone one is the one or proposal one is the one that they're asking for. I'm looking at emails as well and that's what the emails that I'm reading to. My
023husband and I would like to throw our full support behind proposal one and there's a couple others I would like that zone one I I know for me the first thing that drew my attention to zone one with it being Allen is the potential to have a hundred less students over there. And I know from a city perspective, I think city comments are behind it because they feel like this is going to logistically make traffic flow better. >> So one reason and so one reason it they built the zone, they left room for growth. So Allen will be our growth. That's where most of the development is either already approved and is under construction or it's approved and just sitting waiting on the economy to do something different. And so, but our all those all
024that land that's would be in that Allen zone is where all a lot of our construction and the weird thing about it, I'll say the weird thing, it kind of fits what we do in Sylme, which is far as housing goes, there's all kinds. So you have multifamily in that zone. You're going to have duplex in that zone. You're going to have single family homes. And then you're going to have the, for the lack of a better term, those Rouse Coleman starter homes. And then you're going to have those Dr. Horton that are a little more uh little more expensive homes, bigger homes. They're all being built in that zone. So it's not when you especially with it wide like that when you don't narrow it down. So, that will be our growth school and
025where we where we feel like that we can uh as the city does continue to grow, we'll have room at Allen to uh house those until we can get some new schools built. That makes sense. I really can't find a negative proposal. If there is one, I want to know cuz like the worst thing can happen is we just rubber stamp something and and move on and then all of a sudden we do it and then we find all these problems that we didn't consider and look at and and we're going to find some I mean there will be something down the road that comes up. But I don't want it to be because we didn't have we didn't do our due diligence well on the front end. In the spirit of that, I mean,
026I and I'll preface this by saying uh I kind of came tonight really all I was I was thinking was is where the lines are drawn to me. I I really don't have dog in the fight as far as where the lines are drawn. And what I mean by that is the line is going to be drawn somewhere. It's um and we want it to be the the best, you know, plan. But um the only observation I had and I'll again this is not an argument but kind of like kind of like Zonda did for us give us an option two just for the sake of having an option two. I'll say my only takeaways were um number one the proposal to looked a little bit more balanced um that Allen that you know um
027uh excuse me Allen was a little higher north side was a little lower. Um the other part was with proposal one is that we all of I would say when I think of Sylme and this is probably just me being uh I mean Sylum is a lot bigger you know our school district is a lot bigger than um just the city but you know Southside ends up with a lot of what I would say is like Silomme and and that's really the center, a town center. Um, so I wondered if splitting that up in the proposal too would be would kind of give that city center a little bit more diversity within um those zones. Again, that is not a reason to really say that to offset some of the logistical things you've talked about
028uh and where growth is going, but you know, if you see zone 2, it's kind of it meets right there. Kind of the three the three corners meet right there. And what I would say is a pretty centralized part of town. And um in proposal one, it's it's a little on the north part of town. So, but that's just an observation. And I would just say that to me that doesn't mean enough to offset the other stuff you brought up. And if the consensus is um that proposal one is is the better one then um I appreciate that feedback. I' I've not had anyone Chris I want to ask anyone give you any reasons why they like proposal one the emails you got. or and you don't have to go through and read them, but
029I was just wondering if anyone like was there a theme or something why people like that one or this one's the the theme is seems to be our kids going to school together, not so split up. That doesn't necessarily reflect the proposals. No, I don't think there is, honestly. Um well again Shane I just threw that out to say what you're saying for the sake of you know conversation. >> So the re the one reason and I don't know I mean I say I don't know their reasoning where they drew those line. I I just know that what I do know is the south part of town is the part of town that has the least amount of development and it's stable as far as what it looks like it's going to be for the
030next several years because there's not a lot of property left to develop that's developable. Is that the right way to say that? because of the terrain and they were we were trying to they were I know Zonda was trying to because Southside has the biggest capacity to create a they said you have what they kept telling us is you have to have room for growth at one school so as things grow they got to have a place to go >> and that's where I think that's probably why I mean I'm guessing though but you're you I I can hear what you're saying it's a good point that the D the old school. Well, I say old school, but you know, the the original downtown main area of Solemn Springs is mostly in that, but it
031does get a little bit of all of them. and Allan is the other thing I like is when we go to build a new elementary school, we can take we build it, we take north side kids and move them in it so that we can knock north side down. That site is in the north side zone still. You're not just cuz you're changing building, but you don't have to take them out of the zone that they're in. But I mean that's just I'm just talking through my reasoning on that kind of stuff. >> I think it's a good response. I mean that's a great point. That's probably would that would probably be one of the top I'd say bus for me it's it's the bus route point. Um the how we're going to grow for
032our north side zone. That's a big one. Um, yeah. I mean, the con of the con of proposal one, I'm just struggling to find what's wrong with it. >> Yeah, that's I don't, like I said, I haven't found one and I haven't said somebody like a true con of like, okay, this is a legitimate. Now, I'm sure there's somebody out there that doesn't like where they're the fact that they wanted their kid to go to a different school, elementary school. Um, and Jennifer Heathco made a really good point last night. So, we talked I think the big thing that parents are struggling with, the theme that I hear that they struggle with is there's this age group of third through probably sixth graders who are maybe seventh too could be in that group, but mostly
033third through six. They're real concerned about not being able to go to school with their friends. They're getting split up from their friends. And Jennifer talked about last night that these are conversations that I'm having with my kids now because it's going to be a real it. These are her words, not mine. It's going to be a reality. This is going probably going to happen. And I've been encouraging all of my friends. You need to be doing the same thing because you need to be preparing your kids now and then it won't be as big a deal. And in two years from now, nobody will even know it was a deal. >> Probably a year from now, nobody will know because they'll already have new friends. >> That's what I mean, too. >> Make new
034friends. >> It'll be a good morning. >> And they're all going to be back together >> at the high school anyway. >> Yeah. My own daughter would be probably one of those examples with Jennifer's daughter. And it wouldn't matter because when they go to middle school more if the plan is, you know, my children will go to where my wife works and so it wouldn't matter if they get to stay in elementary together or not knowing where Jennifer lives, she's zoned to the same place in both maps, they're going to be split up in middle school anyway, right? So, and that's an individual parent conversation, but it'll be hard, you know, but it's right like you play sports, you have other activities that you're part of. There's, you know, >> you go to church together,
035you're doing all these just don't walk the halls with them every day. >> Well, she also said that she told her child, sometimes you don't even see so and so all day long because they don't have lunch together, they don't have recess together, they're on totally separate hallways. And so she said that's just another piece. >> She had a lot to say. Well, and here's here's just a another kind of building off of that is >> think about we're talking about dis something that's disruptive. And we're talking about a one-time disruption versus the every year two every two-year disruption that's happening on a daily basis for or not a daily but a every year basis. There is there is a lot of disruption within these kids norm normaly >> every school year 50% of the
036student body at every school transitions other than a high school they 50% of the student body transitions every year currently >> well and every year even if you stay in the same school you're essentially going to split your recess and lunch at the potential of three or you know two or three ways so there is that still loss of I was in this friend's class last year. We played together every day in recess. Now we're on different teams. We don't see each other. We may walk into the building at the same time, but other than that, it doesn't exist because the amount of students there on. >> That's a great point. >> That's a good point. That's a great point. I think for both teachers and kids, you're going to also see some perks of
037uh you're going to have three places where more leaders are built, where more people are invested in in a more uh focused way within each grade level because it's smaller. So, there's going to be groups of kids that are, you know, a bigger group of kids will rise out of being leaders of their classes. And you know, I just think that fewer kids will get lost in their class because there's just fewer people there. And teachers too, often times teachers when they're in their fourth grade group, there's going to be a hierarchy is just natural. It happens. Well, when you spread it out, people are going to rise and you're going to get better people and you're going to get people are going to grow uh because they're going to become leaders within their groups.
038I think there's positives to that. Yeah, there's a lot of benefit to having, you know, the older and younger dynamic, older class and younger%. >> There's a kind of I mean a mentoring um dynamic that can happen there. >> See how they act and >> this is how we do things. No, >> it will be controlled because you're talking maybe five classes in one grade at the max and three maybe at one school and you're not talking about how do I cuz I would think when I was at Southside, how do I take my fourth graders? How do they get into third grade and it becomes overwhelming when I'm thinking, oh, I have 14 classes that I need to make that shift with. you know, it's a little bit easier to manage that leadership growing
039um with smaller subops. I guess I really appreciate the exercise and talking about just the idea. Um, and I'm not trying to rush this, but I would like to talk a little bit more about some specifics or >> whatever. >> Um, that's what we're here for. So things like, you know, and these are um like sports, you know, how talk a little bit about has there been any I'm surprised there's not been more feedback about that. >> Well, they asked the question and we've been real open and honest. The plan is we have one sports middle school sports team we combined. Uh it's be our coaches think that's best surveying them. So, not that this is the driver, but it's definitely something I look at financially for the district. It's what's best because if you
040have to now you're talking we're going to have to go add some staff and hire some more coaches cuz we don't have a we wouldn't have enough to fill that but our coaches are not ready for that. We have some in some sports we would be fine and in some sports we're we struggle and it would be a struggle to actually field two complete teams and so to start out with we want to start with one uh athletic program. Now band on the other hand, we've had that conversation with band and they would rather split because they don't do uh don't have like a marching show. So they can teach the music for concert band >> and then merge them together for a concert all together if they want to or they can do it
041separately. But by having splitting them and going to those buildings, then they can get more they feel like they can get more accomplished because there's fewer kids when they than when they put them together cuz they already go >> to those three schools now cuz our band directors travel. They're not stationed at one school. Uh same way with choir, you know, we we've kind of looked at everything individually. What how would it what's best for these programs in these groups? And what it kind of came down to is fine arts would split and athletics would be combined. And we and they're so logistically close. We we can transport kids and it actually adds a facility to the athlete that there that we've not I mean we have been using intermediate but now we would use
042it every day like in some capacities like boys basketball might be at intermediate 8th grade practice and the and the girls would be over arena so to speak. So they feel like they have that logistically worked out and and and we don't have to buy more uniforms and we're all Panthers cuz we're all headed to the same high school and we don't have to split that stuff up. Nobody wants >> to >> turn that into a two school town where we get these rivalries going with each other. I mean I don't want that. >> Yeah, that's great. I appreciate that. >> Well, that's how we did football, right? For so long. you were at the intermediate school as a middle school and you started your practice over at, you know, the field right over there
043by Panther Arena and you bust them back over, made sure they had breakfast every day, you know, and that's just what you did. We didn't practice football at all um at that at the current intermediate. >> What is there what other details were you thinking? Um, how do we feel on our teacher dispersion and making sure that we've got I guess the right count and then the right teachers or what what's the plan for that? Are we going to do a volunteer thing? Is it going to be assigned? >> Has to be assigned. We've learned from the past. >> What we've tried to do is learn from when we opened Allen. It's a local experience that I can't find many people that think that went super well looking back on it. It was basically you
044folks that were here correct me if I'm wrong when I said what I'm about to say, but it was we hired a principal. They opened up and started interviewing and then they cherrypicked from every school to take who they wanted and then it became we're the best because we got picked and so I don't think you can do that. There's several factors we have to look at and so we we're already looking at some of that stuff with the thought that you if you guys approve it we wouldn't be behind the eightball. we'd already have a process in place looking at it, but that was that started with that survey that we sent out to teachers. We we told them we want to try to give them something they want. So tell us what's important
045to you about where you would be placed. And so we have we built this. We got a picture, their name, what they teach, we have their certifications, everything they're certified in, and then we have a spreadsheet with their preferences. And so then we're just going to try to disperse. Oh, and then we have our their performance scores. So BAM scores are something we or the state's using now. It's basically a three-year average of how their kids have done that they actually taught. And then we've looked at all of these things and we have to make sure several things. One, we have to make sure that we have we can't in every organization there are always people who are not as efficient as others in whatever the capacity. It doesn't matter the job you're talking about.
046We can't take the top three teachers kindergarten that would teach kindergarten and put them in one school. Mhm. >> and disperse them down. We have to make sure our our staff is dispersed so that every all three elementary schools and both middle schools have the ability to have highquality teachers. Also, you got to look at are who are the leaders who can lead teacher groups. You have to look at certifications and you have to look so there's another form of designation called a master and a lead teacher that's gone into effect over the last few years. And you have to have those in each building and grade. So we have to separate and make sure we can do that. And uh at the same time make sure that we give them something they want. And
047we told them upfront you may not get your first thing. If you say I'm staying at North I want to stay at North Side. Well okay you can't stay at North Side but what's number two? I want to teach kindergarten. Okay. We're going to get you in kindergarten at Southside. And try to make that happen for them. And so obviously there will be people who will be disappointed, but I think we're really working hard to try to give them something that would make them at least one thing that they could grab on to and say, "Okay, I knew this was probably going to have to change. At least I got this." I mean, that's kind of what we're looking at. But we do have to make sure that we disperse uh our teachers equally. And
048then we've had several teachers that have requested to check change grades because they've not had that option before. >> What if you get everybody dispersed, you know, according to your surveys, etc. And then you have folks like we always do that leave in June, July after contracts are out and there's openings and maybe it's an opening that this particular teacher really wanted fifth grade in this building. Would you allow them to apply at that point to make a move? >> Well, I'm going to tell you what my recommendation unless the board tells me different. >> Okay. >> My recommendation is at least for this year and maybe for two years >> they stay >> that we stay where we are and we just go hire somebody. >> Okay. >> And I'm going to tell you
049why. Here here's the here's our thought process. If we create a team because our plan is we create these teams >> and then we start in the spring one day a month on those Wednesday meetings that we have is we let those new teams go get together. So the principles goes and gets together with their new faculty that'll be next year and start doing all this work. when we get over into June and then somebody leaves and they want to go, so we let them go. And then all of a sudden, all the work we did to make sure that we were balanced across the district could go out the window because I, let's be real, if I'm the principal, I want to hire the best teachers I can hire. And if I have somebody
050leave and the number one first grade teacher with BAM score in the district is sitting over here that says, "Hey, I'll come." You don't think they're going to grab them up in a heartbeat? They sure are. They're going to. So, what we talked about is once we get things placed, we can't let this domino effect happen where it's just, well, you come here. Well, then they get this one and they get this one and then all the works out the window and we don't know what we're going to end up with. And so, I would say this first year we would have at least the first year we're going to have to once you're assigned, that's where you're going to be. opening happens, we're going to have to uh go outside and bring somebody in,
051which is what we do anyway. >> Um >> I think the twoear >> I mean I like the two-year better, but we can re we could revisit it. So I think that's wise because really it is going to be important that we have a period of stability >> and I hate how >> I hate doing anything through a way of I just don't like using force you know I don't like that as an option but I do think there needs to I think I think you're right right to do something like that just because um well I've been in this position too where it's like something feels new and scary and, you know, not comfortable maybe at first and then you stick with it and you go, "Oh man, I'm glad I stepped it out."
052So maybe it will it will kind of cool some of that um gentleness um during that period and um really let these these teams get good cultures form. So even though I will say that it does seem harsh and probably if I was told that I'd be like, "Oh, well that I don't like that." But >> right >> but it's probably yeah from a leadership standpoint it probably is wise to do that. >> Just think we if we what I've told our team is when we're looking at this stuff we always have to look at it like we do we have over here we want to take care of our staff and we want to do things to keep them uh give them some things that they want and and make them feel wanted and
053and feel appreciated. At the end of the day, the decision needs to come down what's the best for the students. And if what's best for the students makes this a little harder on a person over here, then we support them to get through that hard part. But it's still what's best for the student. I mean, that's kind of the that's the lens we've been trying to look at things through. That makes any sense. >> Makes a lot of sense. something I thought of that you brought up that you know you got your rockstar teachers and your okay teachers and then you have struggling teachers. It's same way in any business. It doesn't matter what it is. It's just reality. But and I hadn't even thought of that about going to the to the different schools.
054You're going to have smaller groups of teachers and you're going to have the opportunity for the I don't want to call them low performing, but the struggling teachers to rise. That'll give them a you have the right leadership and and the strong teachers that should help >> should should help. >> That's what we're hoping. So it gives the opportunity for them to come up and >> and we talked a lot about we've talked a lot about it lately about the fact that >> you know in any job out there >> if you don't perform you probably don't get to keep your job very long. And so we have to without saying it like that, we have to do our part as leaders and administrators to help people improve because it's what's best for kids. And
055then if they can't improve, then we have to that's a different conversation that we don't like to go to, but it's reality. >> But it gives them a better opportunity. >> It does. And that's what that's what we've been trying to do. We've put a lot of things in place over the last 18 months or so to try to build capacity in not just our teachers but also our administrators around >> just for the sake of conversation and and I hate what you know I hate the what about what I just don't like you know let's you know let's plan for some of these you know let's have a contingency plan but um the only the only problem I would have with that is the situation where and I hope this doesn't happen and I
056don't I have no reason to think it will but one of my questions was going to be do you anticipate there's got to be I'm sure there's data for a school doing making a change like this you know of what the anticipated turnover might be you know and it's not zero because turnover every year >> well we've already been like we've already been told we have four five we already know of four or five people that are not coming back that has nothing to do with Yes. >> Okay. >> But there I mean we have a lady that's has is going to have a baby and then she's going to be a stay at home mom. We have a lady that's getting married and she's moving with her husband Ozark. We've had uh I don't
057know there's >> retirees. So, we're going to have some turnover and we have actually been talking about how can we encourage our staff that already know they're leaving that hadn't told us to tell us early so that we can go ahead and fill those gaps where with and make sure they're right before we put the plan out to try to help with some of that. So, we've been trying to come up with ideas on how to do that. I actually asked Terry and she's work I know she's working on it but >> even a bonus deal like if you'll if you know you're leaving >> there's 50 people >> if you'll turn your resignation dated at the end of the school year in by a certain date we'll give you a bonus >> because it
058allows us to do that and but there's no way to really figure it because you don't know how many are I mean we hope it's not 50 teachers but it could be 50 years >> I don't think well yeah that was kind of where I was going and and I don't have any any number in mind but anytime you make a change you know there's going to be some percentage of of people that are going to say I just can't I can't go along with it and for whatever reason it could be something completely legitimate I don't know but um I guess I don't want to let's say that happens and let's say it's a number that we say this is you know this is not going to be great for our current team and
059I would just um for your idea of saying that we're going to bring in new people rather than let people move internally. I just would not want to put ourselves in make a commitment to ourselves that we're not going to do something rather than do you see what I'm >> I hear what I hear what you're saying. The thing that you have to remember is people that don't like this and want to go to where it's being done like we're currently doing it. They're going to have to find that the 35 other schools, not school district, but the and none of them are in what? Northwest Arkansas. They're going to have to leave this part of the state to go do that. So, I don't I think people I know not every teacher will tell
060me a sin word to me that they don't like this if they don't truly like it. But I have tried to work the back channels and I've asked the people that have been around here a while to work the back channels to like what are we up like this is a little frightening because I'm not getting push back and we're everybody's telling us that this is the right thing to do and that they understand change is coming and and so I have been on like sitting there thinking okay but all I know to do is to continue being as open and honest with people can be and keep it in the lens of kids first. >> Most of your staff has young children that have been going through these transitions every two years and they
061think they know even though it's going to be uncomfortable for them, they know it's going to be better for their own personal kids. Surely hopefully I don't know. I think they also I talked some kindergarten teachers that said, you know, it was really going to be nice to see a kid who's a fourth grader and that I had in kindergarten in my, you know, I made I felt like I made an impact in the kid and I'm like, oh, hi. And they're like, who are you? >> I I teachers are embracing that. They want to have that experience to see to see with their own eyes those kids grow, see those kids stay in their building and grow. Yeah, I like that. So to your point, Eric, and and Josh has brought this up. We
062did talk about this and I probably didn't make this clear. >> U within each building. So somebody leaves, well, you've got all these other teachers in your building. So if there's one that wants to move within your building, like I would be open to that. It's this deal of >> musical chairs >> from from I'm going to get I'm trying to get all these people are trying to get into one school and it opens all this other up and we have and it's creates a mess that way. But that gives some flexibility to the principal to be able to okay I have this third grade opening. Third grade is super important for us on the literacy side of things. Not to mention the fact in the four if it's fourth grade, you have to every
063student that is in the your bottom 25% has to be taught by somebody that's highly effective. And there's some criteria for that. So you have to make sure you have teachers there. And so that gives the principal the the ability to do that within the building and try to limit the building to building. So we talked to I remember you talked to Cindy Cington, right? So, y'all remember Sydney? So, she's the thing she did not like, she told Michelle that she didn't like about what h what goes on at Springdale is they get a team together. Something opens up and then they just allow anybody in the district to apply for that job and it's a m it's a you never build a team. It's a musical chairs. It's just constantly turn changing. That was
064her feedback when she reached out. She said it happened in two different situations and that was when they actually opened NAP. They pulled again from other schools and I don't think they gave teachers choice from when they initially opened it. But then the very they had their first year. The next year when they were openings in the school they came from they started leaving and going back. That was who they were attached to. And then she said they did they could do what they disband another elementary school. I don't remember the name of it and she said >> Lee Elementary >> Lee same thing happened and she said it was really hard to build you're building culture and she was speaking from opening a a new school which is essentially what we'll be doing too.
065You're going to start from the ground up and she said building that culture when you really want it to be a positive experience for our kids and families. She said it was really difficult because you were starting over every year for for several years. One thing I would say like at the elementary level, not that every situation is like this, but when we had a teacher coming, say there was an opening, they're applying at our school, they were applying at Allen, and they're applying at North Side, right? But their fit, where their strength is going to be may be a certain grade level, right? They may be upper elementary, they may be lower. So, if I had a teacher that was strong and I saw I maybe I had a team, I was like, "Oh,
066there's two or three that have really got it." And all a sudden, I really need some help. in another grade, I can move them if I one of the people I interviewed was a better fit and maybe wasn't open. You know, it allows for that kind of to work better versus we were always constantly calling each other and saying like, "Hey, I think this person's good, but I think they're meant for your building." >> Our principles do do that all the time. They'll they'll move a teacher between grade levels for strength and different things. >> Of course. >> Yeah. I I'm totally a believer and and understand that the only you know the only circumstance I think of is a gentry teacher has more mobility within Sylum than an Allen teacher will have. Does that
067make sense? So if a gentry teacher wanted to come to work at one of the schools in Sylum, it's free. Totally free. They can go to whatever school they want. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. Um, but if you're an Allen teacher, you're kind of locked down, >> right? >> So, um, again, >> it's kind of like one of those, you know, just it's a shame that it has to work that way. >> Well, and and my that's why I said I would my proposal will be for the first year. >> Yeah. >> And then we could reevaluate in year two. I don't think you could you would want to do it long term because my hope is by the end of the year one and or possibly year two the cultures are starting
068to be established and no that's not going to be something but if what I got worried about and what we talked about we get all this set we had even started school yet we we've made all these plans and then in May somebody leaves and they move and then somebody wants this and then it's this and we can't even keep up with how fast it's flying. >> 100%. >> That's where I was, that's I think where we're coming from. >> And also too, that's hard. >> All I sh was kind of >> No, I understand. Well, I hear you 100%. I want you I don't want you to set any expectations that you end up later going I wish I hadn't said this was going to be >> and and just saying like I think
069I think you need to leave uh you just need to leave it open for I think you're going to have to some of these decisions and we're talking about this we've had we wish we' had more feedback and we're wondering if there's going to be something unknown coming and maybe just for that reason I just um I go in my opinion you make these decisions as you need to and sure you can say here's what I want to do and and here's what we're going to do today but if you get 6 months in I think >> I would want you to not be um you know I don't want you to be uh throttled by making a decision going back and saying hey listen we're going to change this so just just um that's
070that's my only feedback about it Um, >> I appreciate that. I understand >> kind of keep it open or know that you have my confidence to keep it open and make those decisions as you need to. >> Thank you. Appreciate that. >> What other is there anything else you guys have on any other details behind things or do you want to look at middle school lines and talk through those? There's only one. >> There's two there. >> Once again, they're they're a little they're similar, but they're not the same. Once again, uh just like the before, I think our team recommends uh proposal one based on it's just cleaner. >> Yeah. uh it it and proposal two creates some real difficulty when it comes to uh transportation because of that that little jog that she's
071trying to get up there. So that's a fairly clean cut right there. That's just the overview. It's but it's a basically a north and south split. Uh, North Side's Elementary District would be split. So, those all those kids would not all of them would go to the same middle school. Uh, when you look at proposal two, uh, go down one more time. Do one more. Is that Yeah, there you can see that what they did was they just kind of shoved the downtown area up in proposal two and pulled that state line area down. They kind of shifted those populations right there. But that Joe and and them have and and Steve and Tan over transportation have been looking at what route possibilities would look like and that one was becoming a little difficult for
072them. >> Going back to what Shane said, if you just look at the two and there's only so many ways you can slice this, right, once you start getting into it. Um, but this does look it's a lot cleaner. has a a clear separation. If you go over to uh the second one page, you'll see too, you kind of have these these weird kind of like we saw with Southside. Uh so if you look to the west of Middle School South there, you can see where that dividing line um on the other side of Holly Street and actually just to the east of Holly Street, a little bit further north as well. um you have a situation where students would be attending a school further away than the one that's you know basically right in
073their back door. So >> I do have a question kind of prompted by this. So we're saying that the north is is really the area for the most growth potential for the future. We've given the south zone in this case about 50 more students um to somewhat offset, you know, I'm assuming that we're kind of offsetting that. What's the thoughts as far as how many like what is 5 years from now look like? >> Well, so the the the good thing about this is both of those buildings are going to lose a roughly 200 students next year than what they're currently holding. So we actually have way room for growth, like a lot of room for growth in both of those schools. So we have a lot of room for there. So that should never
074be an issue. It it will be an issue at some point, but we're not going to grow 200 stu students or actually that'd be 400 students in just those three grades in the next 20 years. Okay? >> So we've got tons of room for growth in both those buildings. I'm not going to worry 20 years out. I'm not going to worry past that. >> Good. >> Five. >> I'm not going to worry about >> That's a good plan. >> No 20 year plan. >> I'll be sitting over front. >> I'll let some other board member handle that. Right. Now, >> is there any other questions around any of this kind of things? >> I like better because of course I line straight and stuff that that freaks me out like that. Freaks me out like
075that. Yeah, >> I like the two because >> that's the one thing on the elementary proposal one that there's that one little gap comes down >> Uhhuh. >> that right there that >> Uhhuh. >> I don't guess there's any way to smooth that out on Sherry Whitlock. Well, I think they uh I think what they're looking at there, based on what Hudson said, what they're looking at there is that was a population >> group that they needed to push out of North Side or it would overpop populate North Side. >> They've been real they've been trying to keep North Side real. >> North Side is the school that's the it's the trouble. Like it's been it's the driver because it has the smallest capacity. So we we've got to make sure that we can the
076worst thing we can do is build a zone and then on the first day of school you got more kids in the zone than you have room for in the building and you're all of a sudden force transferring kids to another school when you just built the zones. Appreciate Was there any other questions, comments, conversations? I mean, I'll we'll stay we're here till y'all want us to go, but I don't I don't want to feel like you have to stay here like a regular board meeting either. >> And the plan is to have this on the 18th agenda. >> And obviously, we're not vote I wasn't going to I wouldn't ask anybody to vote on anything tonight. And so I think the big deal for me on this was just to make sure I you
077got to air your concerns and ask any questions that you weren't clear about so that when we do ask you to make a vote on what I think you had all the information you needed to make a reasonable choice and all. Well, I think it's been good for all of us to hear all this stuff because if somebody comes up to us before I was just didn't have anything that I could really say. Now I've got some ammunition and say, "Well, this, you know, this is why this, this is why that." >> So, this has been really good. Important. It's been very important. >> I am All right. I'll entertain a motion then. Motion to