Design Review Board 11-13-19

001who called the Design Review Board meeting to order this is iron November 13th meeting and Jeff you take the roll call please yeah member burns member Cooper present member Mitchell here member Kinley their member perkins here member singleton member Buckwalter yeah member guitar ski yeah and I'd like to start out by welcoming John guitar ski he's new to the design review board from the Public Arts Commission and we're glad to have each other welcome so our purpose in the design review board is to engender good design and in the community where a group of Landscape Architects architects developer a planner a general contractor who have been around town for a while and and we try to offer advice and create a dialogue with applicants as they come in we review projects that are in the

002D 1 D 2 D da zone that are not in one of the historic districts and we are an advisory committee and weekends are required to come here first when were the first stop but we do not take a vote in and we do not have jurisdiction over the project it's more a dialogue than than a dictate so seeing all of that we should approve the agenda first does anyone have any comments anything that you like to change someone like to move the bill so I second fetch F all in favor say aye thank you and approval of the minutes from September 11th 2019 they're attached in your packet anybody have any Corrections or comments someone like to move approval please Bill's on roll all Cory's going to do this Cory and bill Kenley supports

003any more discussion okay all in favor say aye I don't opposed all right thank you there's a public commentary period now and this is a little confusing this is public commentary for items that are not on our agenda the item on our agenda will we'll have a second public commentary period after the presentation was done so if anyone would like to speak to us about an items not on the agenda now's the time I'm looking in the audience okay thank you regular business okay then this is 405 South Main that this is half of the block that fronts on Main Street to the west in William to the north Packard to the south in the alley between fourth and main to the east it's it's that entire block we saw this project about a year

004ago and it's a little unusual in that it is now I have been told into the planning process and as I just said were usually earlier in the game but we've been asked to take a look at at this there there are some revisions to the design team and to the design so we are happy to do that if you folks could walk us through it but good afternoon my name is Luke Bonner with a Bonner advisory group we've been working with landmark properties for about a year now just on this project I'm going to just talk about the process that we've been through look who is with you just real quick I was gonna I'm gonna talk about the process that we've been through over the last year Josh Sachs is with Majewski architects

005and then Travis maze this is Bonner advisory group as well okay so what you have before you is is really a result of a process that has gone on over the last year that really started with coming to the design review board with a massing model more than anything else to sort of get the first impression of this the massing in the scale that we were proposing as part of this project it was actually our intent all along to come back two other times after that so we did come around probably in late spring with a lot of changes that happen from our first meeting and then now today wanted to also bring this forward for you to take a look at again as I say going through this this process over the last year

006and I would say that the process that the city has in place I think for projects like this we say our opinion has been a really good one I know that normally you know going through the development process there's a requirement called the citizen participation ordinance where you have to have one official public meeting of neighbors and residents within the affected area including the three designer be board meetings today being the third in those meetings we had about a dozen meetings actually so we never really wanted to rely just on one meeting we've had several informal meetings and then we've also had you know a couple of meetings with one-on-one with residents to talk do some very important items for them and so as the process has gone on both comments provided by the design

007review board early on by Geoff Khan and teaming planning in by residents there were about four areas that were extremely important to everybody as part of this process and josh is gonna talk about more of the technical details on that but the the Packard in main corner that Street wall there was a lot of emphasis on activating that and if you recall the very first rendering that we brought in that was pretty much a blank wall so there have been a lot of changes and rightfully so on the Packard main corner the other interest was along the Main Street Street wall making sure that there was a lot of texture and variation and activity with that third was the setback from a pedestrian safety standpoint at the corner of Wayman Main and then also heading

008east on main to make sure that that was a safe enough setback and would match the setback that would be on Main Street and then last but not least in one of the more important issues in terms of dialogue of working with the adjacent property owners themselves is what exactly happens with the alley so there are access issues that were very important to alley property owners because they're all multi tenant rental properties the parking for those properties is in the alley so we wanted to make sure we could address those issues for you know really for ever the alley has not had any eyes on it and so there's been a set of behaviors that have occurred in the alley both after-hours I'll say but also during the day with deliveries and staging of trucks

009in the alley that's preventing some good traffic flow so that was an issue that's been brought up and then also just making sure that there's good maneuverability and spacing that allows traffic coming in and out both ways to access the property of the adjacent owners but also this property as well when we had all of those discussions over the course of you know probably really about five or six months there was a pause internally with landmark and the development team to make sure that we were taking everything into count and incorporating all of those comments into this so as a result we did a pivot on the architect so we brought in Majewski associates choo choo july fish you know it's all time is bleeding together now and so cold out I'm losing my mind

010but it really was I think the flexibility and capability of my a ski from experience here in town but just you know I'll say is the talent on the team to be able to take all of those things and put it into a product I think that everybody's would hopefully be very very happy with which is I I think where we are today there are a couple of residents in the audience today that have come to the majority of the meetings so they've seen this iterative iterative process along the way and today is kind of our for designing review board purposes it's sort of like our best and final you know take a look and you know kind of let us know how you think everything is gone and answer any additional questions that you

011may have and with then I want to invite Josh up so you can talk a little more technically about those changes that I refer to including materials and design and that sort of thing I all thanks for your time so I'll just start kind of from a zoning and kind of programmatic perspective the project is very similar to how was previously presented in terms of you know it's a ten story building mixed to use predominantly multifamily the first floor is active with retail on the William and the main street corner there's some residential uses I looked down Main Street about halfway down the block and then as they approached Packard we try to kind of activate that corner our lobby of leasing centers on that corner and then we amenitized along Packard streets so we

012have kind of our fitness area and spa area there as well so trying to maintain an active street front and then you know levels two through ten our multi-family the second floor we have you know exterior deck so about half way down me and you can see where the break is in the in the facade and that's kind of where our outdoor deck space is obviously from a zoning perspective we're allowed 120 feet maximum height within 150 feet of William Street and then and then the project reduces on the scale to five storeys and sixty feet maximum height from an architectural standpoint it was really you know important to kind of create you know it's a three fronted site we have three street fronts and two prominent corners so trying to create those two power

013corner elements and trying to accentuate those and kind of you know maximize our bang for the buck kind of on the corner with you know maximizing glass and kind of making our big bold moves there and then kind of just keeping true to you know masonry and the materiality that you see in the area so trying to maximize the amount of brick we have on the on the facade obviously it's a you know it's a 400 foot long street it's a Lanka sod so trying to break that up with some metal elements so on the corner you know in the corner of William and main we have a curtain wall element that's kind of surrounded by a metal panel frame and as you move down the block kind of we kind of alternated and trying

014to create some rhythm and some breakup the mass of the facade as we move down between masonry and metal panel introducing some balcony elements to kind of give it a residential character and also help you know break up that facade as well obviously maintaining the street wall the two-story street wall was important as well and kind of filled using darker materials at the base kind of helps ground the building and using lighter materials up high you know kind of help reduce the mass of the perceived heaviness of the project you know we've been working with the neighborhood groups and the colors on the facade have changed a little bit during the process and in general the neighbors appreciated kind of a lighter material palette from some of our first initial schemes they were concerned the

015buildings appear too dark and kind of gravitating more towards earth tones on the project so originally we were a lot a lot cooler palette this is a little bit of a warmer palette and maybe I'll just walk around the four sides so the other corner down a Packer we kind of carried that same corner element with a very glassy element on the corner that's at the base is the entry to our lobby ob Singh office and then as you move east down Packard that's where our fitness center is so trying to you know even though there's not a retail element kind of trying to keep that language along the base was important and trying to activate at that corner and keep it kind of lively down there along the alley we have we kind of

016have a split-level garage on the back side of the project so there's two entrances one entrance takes you down a half story and one entrance takes you up a half story as well so if you see in the plans there's on the south side you're going down to the half story down on the north side you're going up and then we have some open green space along the alley to meet our requirements we're also engaged our neighborhood group you got hooked up with some artists in the neighborhood and we're gonna try to work with them to create a art piece in that corner so we're definitely open to ideas and open to working with a neighborhood to kind of come up with solutions that work for the area this is the the facade looking down

017William looking West Thank You Josh that's helpful so remit as you work your way around the building the material palette stays pretty consistent we want well the project to be cohesive and certainly the downtown requires you know a really nice material palette and they emphasize the use of brick and high-quality materials and we want that to continue around the backside of the project as well you know along the street a lot of storefront awnings to kind of help the pedestrian experience and yeah and once again just just trying to break up the length of the facade you know certainly the element in the middle where we kind of break the the building and kind of sneak around the project helps reduce perceived mass of the project which i think is you know beneficial to the

018project as a whole and I mean really that's that's kind of the crux of the project and certainly welcome to any questions you guys have we're the entry points judge the pedestrian or the vehicle a pedestrian pedestrian so the a lot like it this one doesn't have the plans so a long name there's the entrance of the tower there's essentially two lobbies to the building so there's the primary lobbies in the corner of Packard and that's kind of where your leasing office is there's a secondary lobby two-thirds of the way up Main Street at the base of the building that's kind of more just a ingress and egress access the high-rise but it's really not than me and lobby on the building and then all the entries to the retailer scale from the street from

019I've got one other clarification cushion those those dark and shadowed areas we see adjacent to the window zone is that a different color brick or finish material or are those vertical unit vents louvers right the textured panels the kind of alternate uh-huh yeah those are alternating color brick yeah okay and we thought those elements were kind of important to give the building a little texture and movement otherwise it could have would have been so stoic and kind of plain so we think that helps accentuate the building so we have you indicated egress into the rental housing the swamp or Street and back certain people I think require is the alley to a runway I believe that alley is to a we are we came to an agreement we're providing an additional two feet of alley

020with south of our ramp entry cuz I'm right now the Elliott Wave is 16 so the property owners to the east you don't have driveways but it's the paved surface that is on the east side of the alley is where all of the parking spaces are so I don't believe I don't use any driveways that actually come off the allergist be surface on the other side of the alley into to Josh's point on the south side we actually expand in the alley with another two feet so when you're coming on that south end there's an easy two way traffic opportunity and as you go north on the alley it slims down a little bit but there's still enough room for two so it is technically a two-way alley it's like two two lane or two

021so it's two way because the alley width is the alley width that's 16 feet so it's it's not going to be striped but it's definitely a two-way one way out maybe you could say that into the mic so they can hear so the alleyway itself will be resurfaced and improved and in terms of long term maintenance I think that's something that well I don't typically know how that goes with the city if there's an agreement where the developer ends up taking care of the alley because you're using it anyway he's going to snowplow it and everything else so it'll probably be part of your development agreement that comes out of the planning process so them okay other comments yeah question could you sort of go through the general changes to the site plan from the

022previous and we saw one the one I noticed for sure is that the elevation on Packard I think there had been discussion about stair stepping that facade and this is a straight facade I can't remember now what our logic was and in suggesting that are talking it through but that's one that's pretty obvious what are the others look to me like maybe the ramps are different yeah I mean unfortunately I'm not a hundred percent familiar with with a previous the middle we kind of took a fresh approach to the project certainly yes I know there was something it was more rectilinear on the corner and it was stepping we kind of felt like I don't even know if that kind of totally meant the intent of the street wall experience and we kind of feel

023like the way we kind of set it up where we're you know we have a two story experience that's parallel it's a Packard is a stronger Street well lets us orient our facade more towards more towards Packer than it did previously I know there was a lot of blank facades there previously I think programmatically I mean but the person pieces are pretty similar in their locations I think I don't believe the lobby used to be on the corner of Packard it was it was so we relocated it there to kind of you know just create more of an experience there and kind of open it up the the parking doesn't function in the same way I believe they had a full story basement previously that went underneath the full site we we found a way

024so we could just only orient that you know along the eastern portion of the site so we don't need a full basement where you don't utilizing there's like four and a half feet of great change along the property so utilizing that and not having to build out a full basement was kind of a big move for us as well I think that one of the issues was that that we talked about the last time was there's rental units right at grade and that's something of an issue in terms of Louise privacy in that can and the plans I realize are not fully developed you're suggesting that some of the retail units might be pushed back behind the side ways so there's maybe a space between I think it's just the way that the shadows are

025showing and that was that it's it's kind of a play with the materials I mean right now that the residential does but up to the street so it's like the plan it is like the plan correct yes and that's something we did discuss with the owner and they they did feel comfortable with from that perspective it you know across the street there is residential you know I believe there's townhomes across the street I know they may be elevated somewhat but as you go down man it's not it's not a retail heavy experience so they did feel comfortable with the amount of pedestrian traffic in that area putting putting residential along with streamers remember there was a lot of discussion about pick up and drop off with taxis yes so we actually did along the alley

026we kind of created these uber zones or these rideshare zone spaces and also a loading space so our goal is to keep to not have anyone drive down Main Street and park there so Amazon deliveries and ride shares can go along the alley and a lot of dedicated spaces for them it's not it's not in this presentation it's in it's on the plans it should be noted on the plans at that yeah are you talking about the compact car spaces that are indicated this is right chair to move on there's two rideshare spaces kind of closest to the fitness area so right around the corner from the lobby so just past the entry to the garage correct yes SP 0-1 chose that you know built the actual loading zone for trucks and so forth that

027just this once short stretch I could say short it's probably about 50 feet long yeah so I mean the project is permit it's fully furnished by the owner so there's not a lot of loading and unloading required from from you know tenants who occupied the building so we don't anticipate utilizing them a lot so our intent is that any UPS or FedEx trucks could park there and deliver off of that off of that space so the best that we can be gonna be a rollup they're got a lot to be a lot of people parking in that driveway and to the retail whatever the retail is if they get deliveries it has to be out that same spot oh isn't it I remember in the first meeting first presentation the owners who lived along 4th

028commented that the alley down by Bill seafood it's so busy semis back up in the alley and then people pull up into this alley and wait for that ality to clear so they sit sitting this a highway wait for people that move through the alley did north and then they move across and go into that reality and that's policing issues we talked about that quite a bit you know a lot of it is the behavioral issue of no eyes on the alley today so there is a lot of staging out there for deliveries in fact when we've done some of our walking tours of the site there have been delivery trucks right in the alley not moving so one of the benefits of the improvement of the alley overall is that as a developer owner

029manager of the property there's some certainty they want to deliver to residents that that alley is going to be open so there's going to be more policing as you mentioned there's ons 24-hour on-site security plus a camera system so there's eyes on the alley there will be policing of staging to make sure that that's not happening and that's gonna long-term there has to be a relationship with the city and on their behalf surrounding properties or s-tronic businesses so that they know they have to sort of change that up this isn't a staging area and then the other issue is related to the parking so adding the two ride shares allow them to add that other drop-off delivery area as well so the idea is to for the neighboring property owners take as much of the

030staging out of the alley as possible to prevent any backups or someone having to sit there are no access issues so whereas today there is anybody doing that now obviously they have residents they want to make sure they have access which is the neighboring property ownership that will come to other comments or questions well I'll fill the void I've got a list let's see so the the dark shadows that were seen adjacent to all the windows are all just a different tone of brick yeah that's great thank you and then I noticed the cornice heights in the 12 story element of the brick masses are slightly higher than the setback metal and it works really well yeah there isn't that image on that cornice line but it it didn't look like you employed the same

031same technique on William or in the recessed area that you see along main and did you consider that it it what one of our thing is that downtown is typically 22 foot wide light sometimes you get 44 and sometimes you get 66 but within each of those Lots storefronts are bouncing all around at the cornice line and and you've gone to great lengths here to divide this up into different vertical masses and what you did at that court cornice line where the 12 story illness really seems more effective than yelling you're saying these brick Matt you're saying yeah there's just a little bit of an offset see the light brick is taller dirt up in the recess darker metal but when you go over to William I don't think at least in the earlier trying

032uh so that's back so I'm a maybe I'm looking at an earlier drawing I'm not seeing this correctly did you employ that everywhere is it okay alright good good thanks and the the dark metal is set back of the brick slightly how big is that reveals at a foot or is it four inches you're saying this is my vertical element yeah it's it's more inches than I thought I would say okay yeah it is it full-size prickers it yes it is in the tower and is it being thin red here brick ten brick yeah okay just because of you know just the sheer weight and so we it's hard to return on a 90 degree corner you can do it so so that revealed between the brick and the metals isn't gonna be too pronounced

033yes more of a material image than a plain change correct I mean we do hope they get a little shadow line there between the two and you know as we've developed it will work on that detail and try to you know make it as pronounced as it can be okay we the last time it came around when we sought a year ago the main entry was right in the middle of Main Street and and we commented that that we thought the entry should be more pronounced so for just tell me if I understand this correctly everything south of the tower the entry point is down at Packard and then the tower element entry point is up towards the corner of William and main so I mean the problem is the primary experiential entry point is

034that is on the corner of Packard but from a convenience perspective from them for people living in the tower portion it'll be you know one third of the way down down Main Street is there an active lobby behind that doors and is it a feature what that corner is real important corner speaking of William and main what's happening on the corner boy that's I mean that's a retail corner okay so we'll be able to view but there's an entry point to to the tower right so the entry point to the towers if you can see man isn't this little way down there got it okay so everything everything north of theirs so they do that's all retail Chris okay thank you no what's it about I think I heard you say that's the site yeah

035they could right now to open space yeah so it actually came out of it came out of her neighborhood meeting last week oh and I know we've been in contact we sent drawings to the representative and we're kind of waiting for some feedback on what they want to propose so is it potentially just grass and it's an odd little area for just grass or what are your plans no I mean it will be landscaped it won't it won't just be gas I mean there's no you know I think until we work through with that individual and with the neighbors what what is wanted you know it's not currently designed but they intend us to be something you know substantial more than just open space yeah well it does have potential like statue with surrounded by

036shrubs or something sure sure yeah I mean I don't know if it there's actually more as you move west down Packard's toward mean there's some additional space in front of the building so I'm not sure exactly where that art is intended to be or where it's desired to be but it will be in that area and it will be the will be you know lamp additional landscaping within that area as well John thank you uh Luke and Josh and I only offer a suggestion relative to the comments on me on the artwork and it's probably bad that I start out apologizing and then offering advice but I think it's important I'm new to this project I'm new to this board I've been here seven days just senior your your work just for a few of

037those days and I'm reminded of a friend of mine who often said that good ideas our diamond doesn't go to any bar near any art school in America and you know there are a hundred good ideas that it's really timing budget team and those sorts of things so I offer these suggestions in that light I have two ideas that I would like to to suggest and it takes off of what my fellow board member mentioned regarding that that strip of land and where you are already planning to put some sort of artwork that I agree that it could be a sculpture garden so a contemplative place if there was not just artwork but some way to sort of utilize the inspiration or what yes from public art also I would like to recommend you consider

038a rotating sculpture garden there is a lot of support for something like that meaning that the artwork in that place wouldn't just be fixed it frankly would save some money for the developer because what it does is that it leverages the demographic of Ann Arbor that every artist drools over highly educated high disposable income audience that you could attract some mid-career and senior artists not just regionally but nationally to lend a piece for that if you look at the University of Michigan's Museum of Art those large pieces there are donated by the artist so artists want their pieces shown I would encourage you to have local artists exhibit that could happen if you curated a rotating sculpture garden so I consider the artwork to mate possibly be rotating there there are a number of organizations

039here penny stamps school of art has a gallery on Liberty and I'm sure that they would be approachable to be able to curate it and the Art Center and the our lives are two organizations that would have contact with artists around and again there is considerable support on council and in the creative community because there are very few places in Ann Arbor that we can put art and wouldn't it be nice if we could rotate our in and out of those place it might be a cost savings for you to some extent you're going to have to probably pay for the curation you might be able to get penny stamps to kind of do it but I would encourage you to consider that and consider some sort of seating so that it's not just something

040that you see in a car that you walk by although a pedestrian experience is very important but to be a contemplative place so that you have grad students there to be able to set and be inspired by this art good art does that and I think it fits with what my fellow board member has said and along that line I'd like to reference the design guidelines regarding that I've been encouraged to do so so under a three open space the guideline speaks of open spaces to include public and private courtyards patios terraces alleys and gardens and they should have an urban quality and character that live on the street and enhance the pedestrian experience a three point two also talks about an urban open space and a high level of existing or potential pedestrian activity

041I think that that Packer will get a lot more activity and your situating you know one of the the main entrances there too so you're going to get a lot of that and our guidelines recommend that when you have open spaces near there you can siddur that a three-point for recommends that you consider that area the courtyard serving is a focal point the kind of discussions that we've had here suggest that and a three point six specifically mentions public art so what you're already thinking about dovetails exactly into the guidelines I'm adding just a couple of variations to it one rotate it so you get a lot of different artists in there and you could have one large piece of art or several small pieces of art but if people don't like it they can

042just wait a few months because you know you'll rotate it through the second that idea that I would like to sort of present and while I'm on this topic that why don't I go into that and that's really activating the ally space and I'd like to share some of these photos with you and if to pass along and I'll reference those sure they're there both for you and I apologize dick but staff saw these and said oh mine you know you should really it much better than my Haggard description of what could John has a whole book of ideas that you'll send you that's great public art idea book and we'll share a link with you so these are the trompe l'oeil murals and the modern sort of 3d pictures are not what your grandmother's

0433d pictures are like so I want to reference in particular I'm not good at other than drawing so this is what would what do you call this sort of piece of paper here a rendering rendering rendering view from the southeast so and I apologize for my non-technical sort of terms but you even mentioned Josh of trying to activate that particular wall these two large walls here I'm suggesting you think about a trompe l'oeil mural I have some examples where it's paint but it gives the illusion that you're pulling back the skin of the building like a curtain to expose a more classical design so it's kind of a take-off on oh this looks like a modern building to you but underneath of this modern building is this incredibly classical design it would definitely draw attention

044to it and some unique designs it could be could could take what I hear you say is needing activation and it's the reason you have the different colors there well just push it over the action and and and and really go trompe-l'oeil with it in addition the alley itself so these suggestions are saying you know you really want to signature building and I've read this in the narrative that one of them back of this building is as spectacular as the front and you can do it with trompe l'oeil murals and so all along that back parking that you create a streetscape and you know and I would encourage you to think about a historical streetscape we have some sort of representatives of the Historical Commission here tonight or this afternoon and that you could and

045there are examples if this particular image right here you see there are balconies that's all painted and you see below it looks like there's a porch and it looks like people are saying that's not that's that's all painted on there and if you could do the same with that in terms of creating a straight scape from the back of the building and I also would encourage you if you flip over these are what I call Instagram kind of features and a really big thing now that people want to take selfies so if you allow them you create something where they could put themself into sort of this mural and take a photo and put it on Instagram or Facebook or wherever and there is that Maynard and and William that on the tower Plaza that

046my wife teaches at the U and she is in the English department goes to graduation I pick her up and there are hordes during graduation week there's these butterfly wings and there are lines of people waiting to get their picture taken with these wings and their cap and down so if you could create some interesting kind of trompe l'oeil features on the back of that a streetscape historical if you can but if not just bring out some action activity and draw people there to do something sort of be inspired in the sculpture garden tease a little bit of the the modern design with a trompe l'oeil sort of curtain pulled away and a literal streetscape on that alley so again you know ideas are a dime a dozen and I come late to the game

047I apologize to my fellow board members you know and to you if I've if you've already thought of this and and it doesn't work that's absolutely fine that's all I have chairman in any guesswork I'm a chef do you have anything yeah yeah all right my biggest concern is that it's almost like this presentation today to us is as though we only care about the exterior of this building I care a lot about the entire piece of architecture and we're seeing the floor plan unless I missed something in a submission it's the first time I've seen these four plans there's no site plan there's no articulation about landscaping the site or what's left of it so I'm basically just digesting this for the first time right now and I'm not sure I'm ready to make

048any comments about it yeah I am I only come in there was a fair amount of discussion last time about making sure that the view coming up the hill on Main Street and others going north on main when you come to that intersection there's something maybe I'm stretching to say exciting happening in that corner but something that makes it distinctive and that's where this Lobby is and there's nothing particularly distinctive has a little shelter or peace there but if you given any thought to making that a little bit more of a standout you have only two corners to work with and this is the one that's going to probably get more views from people coming up from the south than almost any other place in downtown Ann Arbor I'd encourage you to do something there

049yeah I mean certainly we you know attempted to make as I mentioned there's kind of like two signature corners on the project you know we attempted to kind of make that its own distinct element I think you know we could make it a little bit louder if that's kind of what you're looking for obviously there's some limitations there's height limitations and whatnot that don't allow us to maybe pop that element as high as we'd want it to be so we're kind of you know restricted there but you know certainly we were conscious of those previous comments and at least as a starting point you know orienting some of the building functions toward that towards that corner is kind of the approach that we took and I do think it opens up that corner a lot

050more than than previously in previous iteration I agree with that so I mean we're certainly open to to further explore in that corner and what we could do to make it stand out you know as a distinctive element I share what what Jeff said we haven't we saw the elevations I think was always saw before us today so we haven't had a chance to study the site plan or landscaping and so forth at the second floor level looking at the elevation and that at that corner when you get to the apartment level are those set back it looks like I can't see that in them maybe they don't even mean in pepper give me those of you who are looking at now yeah I'm looking at the same view but the the darker colored brick

051the two-story part looks like there's a balcony behind that that's at the third storey you're asking yes yeah it's set back a third story it's what it's that back five feet at the third story so that balcony all the way around there then so it's a balcony yeah it goes all the way around the building then it's not balcony but it's setback its rooftop that's something I can see that so that's a continual continuous balcony it looks at Midland I'm looking at SPO three it looks like a continuous balcony all the way around it it's not a balcony used but it is a setback so just setback but needs a setback but it's not intended for you can't step out with correct actually all of us even the corner element does the upper terrace then

052half way down Main Street become activated opening oh yes Stan I mean it's amenity deck so there's a you know a large heated hot tub or pool and a lot of there's trellis elements and fire pits and you know we do have some development on that area that's kind of happening within the past few weeks from from the landscape architects that we could provide that information as well I'm going back to that same corner is that that's set back part of the requirement the setback yeah this setback from the city has got to step it back feet so they're a two to three story screen wall with a five foot step back I think I general concern and as I'm guessing all these my general concern is I think it's really nice that you've broken

053it up quite a bit I think it's more articulated in terms of mass and those before the ends a now it's in the recess for the pool deck and things like that I think but really the society is just so flat you're gonna have thin brick and like you said inches between that and the panels the windows I get a feeling are going to be very flush and then the treatment of the windows with the shaded or the darker brick to try to expand their their appearance I I think is not gonna be terribly successful what I think the best example I've seen of that is maybe the varsity where what they did was they recessed the window at least the thickness of a brick and created a bigger recess and then put a window

054smaller window within the recess and they used a darker brick and they employed like header courses and soldier courses to kind of highlight that you know I don't see any of that the brick just goes from one color to another color and doesn't appear to occur in any line or recess I think throughout the building you know that's kind of an issue another important elevation I think is the view from the northeast across the beer Depot parking lot that's a pretty blank beside that we will end up sitting there retail doesn't turn the corner at all even the first floor our spaces that are going to be retail maybe put more ins and outs and I think the lobby area I think the lobby area where you have the standard name it shows them plan

055that that's very shallow recess or angle but it's a blank space on on Main Street with two hot metal doors in it so those some of the issues that that I'm concerned about I'd like to see some more detail on the facade and more depth wherever you can get it um how many occupants will the building house I mean there's 218 units you know many of them are multi it's correct I believe 420 bedrooms I I have to agree with Gary that it's really flat I'm the renderings were but I was hopeful when I saw the renderings that there was more depth and more reveal between these masses but you're just not gonna be able to accomplish it with thin brick and metal panels and I think the message you need to take the landmark

056is they need to develop more budget to this building it needs more detail it needs more richness the building right across the street yeah it sets a good example Ashley muses is really rich in detailing it extends Main Street to the south a lot more appropriately than this is going to thing I think it's it's very flat I'm will disappointed to hear the choice of materials and it appears you took every opportunity to save money I agree with all the comments about the flatness I'm you probably were faced with a budget requirement but that doesn't change the fact that it is yeah I can't remember where it is in the guidelines when the guidelines were being developed there was some discussion about one building in particular and how flat it was that's the corner it's

057above the bw3 corner of State and and Washington that is a very very flat facade and it is it is not I'm the non architect here I'll just say it's not appealing they're probably better terms and use them it's you probably why this board exists and very small windows small windows it was it was flush with the thin brick and my recollection is that there were statements made in the in the guidelines as to having some kind of dimensional setback all the terms of Gary and Dick were using I echo that there needs to be some kind of richness here and that's I think going back to landmark with that message I think would be very important yes yeah I do but please from a circulation standpoint on the site I think you mentioned that

058the alley is two-way as it's being used but it's a 16-foot alley I don't know why the city hasn't turned that into a one-way space I don't see how one car can lay by the wall another one passes in 16 feet so I guess my concern is that from a functional standpoint it seems like that space should be used mostly as northbound access so when people are coming in to park sorry I'm not making eye contact but I'm looking at your drawing here as they're coming in to park there they're going to be coming in from Packard it's not gonna be really at least I don't think it should be encouraged that they come down the alley from William Street so I'm wondering if that whole thing should begin to be treated as though the

059alley is going to ultimately function as a one-way going north piece so the parking spaces should orient on an angle so that when people back out they're encouraged to go north instead of trying to you know do a few special case to go south when you come out of the parking structure at the northern access point that people are encouraged to turn and go up to William Street instead of trying to make it down to Packard it's the alley north of Williams one way or two right now the Rambler down is from assumes you're coming from the south that's the ramp down right yes and you will be crossing lanes if my concern that certainly would indicate that north right we're engaging we better I was more concerned with the ramp up and coming up

060and making a turn if there's two way traffic look look at the the turning radius gotta have a mighty tight turning radius get onto the into that lane well it's just coming up and making a turn you can certainly cross that but that I would think it's gonna be a challenge somehow other than that that with yes so I know there's been a lot of discussion I mean with the neighborhood about the alley he's been a big plenty of discussion and maintaining it is the for the ability for traffic to go both ways was extremely important Jeff thanks dick just a few comments one was we a staff appreciated the number of improvements that my f skis team brought to the table one was a critical issue of creating a wider sidewalk on William we

061wanted an extra eight feet they provided that that's huge to us we felt that their treatment along Packard was a big improvement being more flush utilizing land more efficiently instead of the saw cut or the stair step approached last time is sort of an afterthought last time to us we thought that the improvements along South Main Street word were great at the first floor level there used to be caves what we saw as being little caves stuck along that that section so we thought that the elevations here showed an improvement we appreciate maintaining the retail along William we liked at our feature along the William main corner and we appreciated the symmetry of the balcony treatment so we thought that in a number of ways with regard to the massing the building improved substantially we

062had a few suggestions one we were disappointed with the window sizes we recognize that there are cost implications and all and we had hoped for a larger window treatment we we didn't love the window shattering shadowing that's been being proposed but we do recognize that that it looks like an attempt to minimize the additional costs and then lastly we were staff was hoping for richer colors of the brick we think that brick color doesn't have to be that much more expensive and it could be a way to add real beauty to the to the to the building itself one staff member thought the color palette looked like Ashley Terrace some of our younger staff members thought that it sort of looked maybe more of a senior housing type of a product softer safer tones instead

063of tones that were more vivid and that's that's my summary I had a few things I forgot to view were looking at right now when you look at the tower element on the south wall is it changing materials when you get 20 feet back from brick to to a metal panel you see what I mean up at the very top you can see that gray of the tower no the one the tower up on William and main oh yeah yes it does it does change materials here you know and that's kind of the rhythm of the project how you know we kind of wrapped corners and then accentuated with material change so we don't have a you know extensive facade of just a single material all right and could you just go to the view

064that looks at the corner of Main and William yeah that one that the second story element and I know you must have struggled with this and you're trying to maintain the the two-story street wall that is in the ordinance but maybe at the corner there there could be an exception we always one of our guidelines talks about celebrating the corners and doing something different that might have been a spy since the language above that two-story element changes so dramatically and and you have a taller store from below that might be a place to do something different I don't know if you consider that or if you just felt like by ordinance you had to continue that two-story street wall all the way around the corner maybe you don't maybe there's a better solution at the

065corner yeah I mean we're definitely conscious of that while we were designing it I mean the solution was to you know even though there's a setback to kind of keep that material and kind of keep that read on the corner so even though it's a different plane it kind of reads that it's kind of coming to the ground okay other comments everybody's all set okay all right thank you very much thank there she Koenig's let's see we have communications to the design you think we do have a submit all for connect smart oh we we have a symbol for the December 11th Dr be meeting for 304 East Huron which is the only and renews buildings which includes a very modest renovation okay good any other communications okay so now it's public commentary time about

066this project that we just reviewed so anyone who would like to speak well I want to thank my SK architect said look Bonner for having so many meetings and I think I went to all of the public meetings so I have been watching this project from the get-go it's been I don't know a year and a half or something and I've been very outspoken I usually a.m. because this is such an important corner in Ann Arbor and it's going to be there for decades and decades and decades if not more than a hundred years so I have a lot to say about this there has been an evolution in the color palette the last time I saw the renderings for this building it was like son of dark Darth Vader and I told Jon Majewski

067that I said this looks like a Darth Vader building this is an improvement but I agreed with all of you who have said that the color palette should be warmer that was my position as well I think that the warmth of that is possible with brick brings a real ambiance to the downtown that we want to encourage and we have it already in our historic buildings and in ashley muse and in the other buildings that are further down on Main Street so I'd still like to see that change I want to say that when Majewski architects did the hub on huron they used a lot of wood and it's a wonderful accent something that I find ominous and oppressive about this building is the use of black metal if they could change that to wood

068it would go a long way in improving the building another thing I don't like about metal is that it conducts temperature on the South facade of the building there along Packard I really feel sorry for those people who would have that black their balconies and windows trying to cool their apartments in the summer or keep them in the winter because it's going to absorb temperatures it it's not a good material for a big building when we're looking at sustainability and climate change and trying to make buildings more efficient in terms of heating and cooling it just isn't another thing that could really help this building a lot and this isn't under necessarily the purview of design review but it needs a green roof or solar panels or something to assist the Ann Arbor community in

069addressing climate change because we're really committed to it I really I'm glad that you mentioned Ashley news deck it's I think it's a very handsome building it's one of my favorites and in terms of course my favorites are all the 19th century buildings but it's one of my favorites in terms of 20th century 21st century buildings I agree with John that even before you mentioned the arc John I had written down in my notes and there are lots of opportunities from public art on this building there's a certain inevitable monotony that architects are committed to in designing buildings these days they beg for art which is why people become self-appointed artists and buildings with graffiti I really think it's human nature cry now for some kind of artistic expression I think that the entrance to

070the alleyway the one that's on William is going to be a prime place for graffiti unless something is done there along that alleyway I also filled that with the corner treatment all that greatness about the corners or it turns the corner that another opportunity for art that's a huge expanse of blah just blah so I get I guess that's that's about it there's one thing I I just I mentioned to Jon Majewski and that is there's another building in an hour but with the name the standard it's a restaurant and it's between em Harbor and Dexter and I question the use of the name again for this building I know lawsuits even come out that sort of thing too because of the inevitable confusion so I think the architects and developers for allowing the community

071to have so much input and I still think that this building has a way to go by the way I do like the facade on Packard much better than the zigzag that was originally there I think I think the architecture has come a long way but it still could go a long way to be much much better thank you anyone else especially concerned with the alley I'm very familiar with the life of the alley and with the beer depot and the senior housing that are at either ends there's vagrants and I understand that there's going to be increased security however it's going to be an issue there's going to be the vagrants continuing to be there people coming from the beer Depot senior housing isn't that much of an issue but it's still it there's

072a lot of traffic between there I was wondering about the trucks that go into the beer Depot realistically they do have to have a place to park they're going to they can't just be pushed out so that's going to be blocking for a period of time I think they maybe have a 20 minute period of time I'm not sure what the what the legal requirements are there but they'll be blocking that period and I don't see that there's any way that they can be out of the way UPS for the retail is going to be I had a retail space on Main Street and I know that UPS is constantly coming and going for for those spaces so where are they going to park and I was wondering about the entrance to the retail is

073there there must be doors that go into those retail spaces is that correct yes I can't see where they're where they are could you point out where the doors are to the retail space okay okay and then I'd also second the art all the art suggestions I think that would be great to bring more light and interest there I think that's it so that the alleyway is definitely I think something that really has to be thought about you can't come up to the mic if you would Kris thinks do not kid yourself you will have a big move-in and move-out period and you need to prepare for it everywhere in Ann Arbor at the end of August beginning of September streets are closed off and there will be if you have students living in in

074this building and you probably will I don't care how well furnished it is they've got a lot of stuff and they bring it with them and there is just to give you an example I share driveway without the house next door which is a rental it has three apartments and our driveway driveway this past August was filled with eight cars for the entire day with students moving all their stuff in it's a fully furnished house so they bring a lot of stuff I don't care where it is so you need to prepare for that and the planning of the program of this building you'll have a big move-in and move-out thanks any other comment okay I think we're adjourned thank you very much you