Planning Commission 9-4-19

001the September 4th 2019 City Planning Commission meeting will begin the meeting with a roll call would hear Briggs Commissioner Mills here commissioner Mills time here give Randall here Commissioner Ackerman here commissioners over here commissioner a-bombs here sorry Commissioner hammerschmidt yeah yeah ok we have a quorum excellent thank you do we have any introductions this evening no approval agenda do have a commissioner I'll move approval move by Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner woods any discussion all those in favor please say aye aye opposed it's approved minutes of the previous meeting before is this evening we have the August 20th 2019 meeting minutes do have a commissioner who will move move out Commissioner good Randall seconded by Commissioner Mills any discussion or changes all those in favor please say aye aye opposed those are approved we move

002on to reports from city administration City Council Planning Manager Planning Commission officers and committees and written communications and petitions we'll begin with our city council representative Commissioner Ackerman Thank You mr. chair a handful of updates for you City Council met last night and get out early this morning on property specific updates the city executed its right to first refusal at the property of 1146 South maple folks will remember this as adjacent to an Avalon development that we reviewed and passed on to City Council hopefully over a year ago at this point but the city's purchase of this would allow what enable Avalon to expand the opportunity of affordable housing on those two parcels now 28:57 Packard also known as the Weber property passed at first reading and a this body also reviewed plans for an

003and a parking structure build-out that proposal was voted down at City Council that was actually there were some active and productive debate about the specifics and staffs requests it was voted down and bring something fresh just cuz it required a lot more number country on zoning related matters to amendments to the chapter 55 past that second reading first was allowing restaurant bar and food service uses in our office district the second were fixing some clerical errors in updating our UDC to reflect our former checker fifty-five updates on the treeline trail we were able to secure an easement at the kingsley condominium property which will allow for a potential stretch of the treeline trail to run through the near downtown area and additionally we are applying for a grant to the county to study the possible

004connections between 721 North Main a city-owned property and Argo pond transportation updates of relevance to this body City Council will be looking at the Lowertown mobility study which would look at the the region around the intersection of Plymouth Traver in Pontiac trail to Road reconfigurations which were proposed Road diets that would provide added amenities for cyclists and pedestrians on Traver would drive on the northeast side of town one proposal has been kind of cycling between versions and we're soliciting more input from institutional stakeholders like the Islamic Center and a couple University of Michigan facilities in the area the second on Green Road also on the northeast side of town failed at City Council and finally I will be leaving this body I was not able to secure enough votes for reappointment it's been an honor

005and a pleasure to serve with you I'm not sure exactly what the mayor's timeline is for nominating a replacement City Council representative but know this has been a distinct honor of my tenure on city council so thank you thank you um I'm sure we'll have more thoughts on that later in the meeting moving on to planning manager mr. Walski do you have any report where I do not have a report tonight okay Planning Commission officers and committees Commissioner brakes just an update that the master plan consultants that have been hit put in proposals those interviews are gonna be happening within the next couple of weeks so that process is moving forward great any other all right written communications and petitions I believe we received two letters that are in our packet so please take a

006look at that and now moving on to audience participation if there's anyone in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission in regards to an item that is not on our agenda this is your opportunity to address the Planning Commission so if you are here in regards to hideaway Lane or vacant Ilic south we'll have an opportunity for that in a little bit but is there anyone in the audience who currently wishes to address the Planning Commission regarding item that is not on our agenda this evening if so please step up to the podium seeing no one I will move on to public hearing scheduled for next business meeting which we have known we do not have any so I'm not sure what will happen at that meeting but we will most likely have

007a meeting yes we will keep you posted on the details so now moving on to regular business the first item is hideaway lane planned project site plan for City Council approval and we will begin with the petitioners presentation the petitioner will have up to ten minutes to address the Planning Commission which time we will then head over to a staff to get an staff report and then we'll open it up for public hearing before our discussion so please Thank You mr. chairman my name is Michael Powell I'm the design engineer for this particular project and my address is 4700 cornerstone Drive in White Lake and if you don't hold it against me I'm U of M grad as well so it's nice to be back in my hometown here this project unless you're much older

008than I am it's been around a long time this particular project started in 1965 in which it was part of a planned development that far back nine of the original units were constructed and still exist on the site approximately 15 years ago that was modified to a site condo status consisting of 18 single-family home sites the construction started approximately three years ago in which three of the basements were dug as part of that original approval and as you can well imagine the economy delayed it many many years during the middle 2000s this particular project as you can see before you has started out as a single-family home site and as the developer started construction on it he soon found that the construction cost and the sales prices for these homes would be much larger than

009what the area can really afford so as part of an economical efficient home sales and for for rentals he decided to approach the Planning Commission and staff to make these duplexes instead of single family home sites much more for affordable home sites in the area so part of that we've been working with staff for a couple three years now to try to get this site to accommodate duplexes versus single-family home sites so the proposal but for you right now is 417 individual buildings in the virtually the same location of the original single-family home sites and one single-family home site that's already finished on site and to change those buildings into duplexes instead of single-family home sites and as you can see it's it's virtually a single-family home look with two doors in it instead of

010one door in the front of the structure and each unit is going to have a two-car garage and enclosed two-car garage so all of the all of the individual home sites will have their automobiles inside the structures and then we'll have individual drives leading up to each of the home sites so there are two driveways leading up to each of the home sites themselves we have as I said we've worked very hard with staff and I want to personally thank and tell you that mr. Jeff Kahn and Amy are professionals in every sense of the word they they see problems with sites they let us know about them ahead of time and they work very carefully making sure that we've dotted our eyes and crossed our teas crazy that they hold us accountable to actually

011present a nice project to you planning commissioners so the request now is to allow for a little more dense development in that the number of units are changing but the number of structures are staying exactly the same there are a couple items that I'd like to let the Planning Commission know because in doing this kind of work around the state not much changes in the canoe of the neighboring community and the binding Commission's not the least of which and apologizes well and that I'm a crazy board member in White Lake Township so I I get to hear the concerns of development in my own community so traffic is a is a major issue and I have a revised traffic study and I'm not exactly sure that that the revised traffic study is before you I

012know one was submitted but as a the single-family home site with the 18 units that are proposed ended up with 215 traffic incidences or traffic I'm sorry I'm trying to get there the the actual traffic count for single-family homes when it was really a today our professional traffic engineer the difference between the traffic count in single-family home sites and multiple family units the increase only raised by 16 traffic counts of going from the single-family home site to the multiple-family the charge in Ashdod and the other traffic analysis show that that is because of the different in difference in the use of those homes you don't have a family of four five and six in the home site you don't have a number of trips back and forth to school typically they're occupied by one in

013two member families and not larger families in the multiple so a total of 16 additional trips only by changing from single family to multiple and only four additional trips during peak times morning and evening so only for additional trips so the the concern from the neighbors are somewhat Olivia alleviated because the different type of occupant that will be in the multiple family development we have sanitary sewers already extended into the site from the previous project water main has already installed in the development and the sanitary I mean the storm sewer system will be upgraded to accommodate to all the roadways as they currently are and they had to be modified meeting the fire department's requirements stormwater flows from the north side to the south side and a parallel storm sewer system picking up the storm

014water coming out of the site from the surrounding area as well as down the streets it goes into a four Bay and a detention basin and outlets in a controlled way into the creeks that follows along the westerly side of the development Jeff is there and you change the keyboard there if you hit the return up the return --all should advance return or they enter yes it's policy oh look at that hey all right so this shows the location it's along the southerly side of traver Drive this is a strictly a residential type roadway this whole area is currently zoned multiple and there's a great deal of multiple already existing in this area the picture along the the bottom portion of that screen is the it's really from the railroad tracks the outlet underneath the

015railroad tracks and the owner has stepped in and cleaned up all those gabion baskets and created a very nice and a very efficient manner to carry the water from underneath railroad tracks down to the stream or Creek to the to the west so the current proposal as I said is to change the single-family homes to a duplexes we had to lose one of the duplex units because in working with the fire department they needed to have a turnaround at the end for their fire trucks and so we've accommodated a turnaround for the fire department as well as in fighting the fires if something were to happen back there the southern half of the project will be sprinklered all the all the homes in the southern portion of the development will be sprinklers fire suppressed so

016the fire department has their hope is the fire will be out before they even arrive on site so all of that was done to accommodate the fire department's concerns we we also had an interesting chore because believe it or not and I know you didn't have any hand in this at all your ordinance have changed over the years and so to allow this site to accommodate the balance of or to the new to new ordinances we've had to accommodate it by widening the drives from the original site and so we've widened the driveways of fire hydrants we've as I said we've sprinkler the buildings we've modified how each building was going to be served with sanitary and water and so we've worked very carefully with staff to modify even the the dumpster area and reconfigured

017that and we going to rebuild those walls around that we have added bicycle racks on site most of the individual bicycle racks will be in the building in the buildings but they we have a class a bicycle rack out in front to where anybody can keep their bikes there as well so I'll be available at answer any other questions you have and just one other very quick note the your notes say that the owner has requested that it this be postponed they didn't believe that they could have anyone here to represent them so I'm here representing them and if the Planning Commission so desires and I've answered all your questions and this goes properly we would appreciate a recommendation to City Council tonight if it's your pleasure so thank you mr. chairman thank you well

018now head to mr. Cohn for a staff report thank you just a little bit of history first in the mid 60s a nine unit townhome project was constructed on the site which still exists today in 2003 another developer received approval to construct the single-family homes on the site but only one of those homes was constructed another home remains unfinished on the site and two basements were constructed without any other improvements the current development team acquired the property fairly recently and came up with this new concept of proposing duplexes where previously single-family home sites were were shown so that's a little bit of the history I also want to point out that at that time in the in the mid 2000s when the initial development team was attempting to construct the homes a number of natural

019features were removed at the site and are in the process of being replaced there were two mitigated wetlands that were constructed at that time that are not in great shape so we've asked the current developers to improve them which they've agreed to do there are two other wetlands on the site for a total of four the staff port does include a discussion tree replacement and the petitioner has agreed to provide all of the necessary replacement trees petitioners also agreed to dedicate funds for park improvements nearby and at this point because the petitioner had requested postponement staff is recommending the plan project site plan be postponed if the Planning Commission has all of its questions answered and feel that this petition could move forward to City Council then they can then the Commission can move that

020thank you at this time I'd like to open up up all the public hearing on this item if there's anybody in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission please step up to the podium state your name and address for the record you'll have up to three minutes to address the Planning Commission and I'd like to leave to read the comments of my neighbor at 2000 River Road and he says I am opposed to this project for several reasons the developers have not demonstrated themselves to be responsible nor respectful neighbors currently there is one house health constructed on the lot and to open foundations these foundations have been opened without any safety precautions such as a fence or a rail for over three years I've expressed my concern regarding the safety of these open

021foundations in our neighborhood with children and pets but have received no response the developers turned to our once beautiful backyard with trees and a picnic area into an uncontrolled that they refused to maintain when I expressed concern regarding this area specifically the amount of standing water and subsequent mosquitoes they told me I should get used to it as that is how the land will remain three our association of nine condos in one house is already experienced problems with parking increasing the total number of dwellings for 29 to 45 would put undue stress on our already stretch parking the developers have stayed they plan to echo ages to units but as the partially constructed house demonstrates only one unit within these proposed duplex developments would have access to a garage and finally an increase in that

022in the number of total dwellings would lead to traffic problems something I'm also concerned about as there is currently only one driveway from Craven Road with access to the development as stated by a member of the previous Planning Commission with these developers an increase in construction equipment poses a safety risk to the children in the neighborhood the developers stated they share this concern and would meet with parents to ensure safety such a meeting never took place and no measures to ensure the safety of the neighborhood children were taken what will be the difference this time thank you for your time consideration Zachary Hutton jur thank you thank you my name is David favor I live at 1791 hideaway Lane and uh regarding the existing structure of the personally built house it is as far as

023we can tell only framed out there's no drywall inside it's not ready to move in the windows are periodically open to the elements for weeks at a time during rain and snow and the to open foundations a couple of months ago were modified to presumably accommodate the proposed duplexes they had wall cinder block walls inserted and in the process of this the foundations and cells were damaged so we have concerns about the quality of the buildings that are going to be going in on the existing pieces thank you seems like we have a good representation from height way late I am correct Wagner at 1793 highway lane thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and I appreciate this this forum for you to listen to us man I've urge you not to approve

024the new proposal three primary reasons too specific to the site and one larger from a development perspective in Ann Arbor we've talked a little bit about traffic that is number one with 16 new dwellings on the site that will double the number of cars on that site and if we're assuming that there will be between one and two cars for each of the dwellings that 16 to 32 cars additionally they can and whereas 16 to 32 cars in Ann Arbor you know that's a drop in the bucket obviously you have many decisions on expanded development but certainly in that area where there's only one paved road out to Greater Ann Arbor we're gonna certainly see greater traffic there one of the things I was interested in seeing was the new site proposal and this goes

025to my point number two and that is green space as I expected to keep the number of dwellings and double the number of or keep the number of built buildings but double the number dwellings that dwellings happen to be bigger and certainly comparing the two before and after the dwellings are much larger and you can I think take a look you know me eyeballing it from 50 feet that looks like 30-40 percent greater square footage on the buildings and also less green space I'm guessing it looks like if you you know if you look at all the green space on that four acres I'm guessing it's about cut in half but you know you certainly can make that calculation from from the site plan and lastly I'd like to speak to this in the larger

026Ann Arbor perspective because I know you have an interest in modern in managing the new development that comes into this city and it's hard to argue with the fact that you know more more housing brings in more tax revenues brings more people in to our fair city which is wonderful but there's also a lot of hidden costs that we often don't going to consider that is in terms of increased traffic greater stress on the city infrastructure reduction in green space greater noise and light pollution and more crowding on our streets and these all contribute in a minor way to degrading the character of the city we love and this is especially true given that we're in the unique position of having a wonderful University that also was putting significant pressure on it so so I

027urge you not thank you put this here okay so I'm gonna read up my iPhone just to keep my promise efficient my name is Joseph Pratt I live part time at 1790 hideaway a plane and another part of the time at 30 9200 Vereen drive over in colonial square I want to comment on what I observe as a responsibility or irresponsibility of their developers you've heard comments about the open foundations this derelict house it's been they've been working on off and on for four years that is trashed by the weather it's good it's sometimes left open there's all kinds of people living in there and and in animals too sometimes so it's it kind of concerns me that this have kind of irresponsibility is going on and now they're proposing this development and my biggest

028question is a direct drainage ok the city spent millions of dollars developing the drainage on Leslie golf course a few years ago and it seems to me that you'd want to preserve that investment well this area that at the proposed highway lane development is going in on its soggy all the time it's good clearly good has drainage problems when we have one of these hard rainstorms the ground can be soggy for several days my question is build this thing and where's all that water going to go so you've heard about the empty foundations the derelict house this Desmond's spent millions of dollars on the watershed developing watershed for Leslie Park Golf Course why do you want to screw that up I'm concerned that this hideaway lane development is potentially alter the water dynamics of the

029area it is not fair to the taxpayers and especially those who own structures in the area that could be potentially negatively affected by the water bath house currently the water does not drain easily after a heavy rain the area is often soggy for several days with a bill that in the development I fear that there will be not will not be a good way for the water to drain the site has considerable marshland area who will be fair will get be fair to build houses on an area will cause problems the buyers of those units additionally those of us who live nearby could also encounter drainage problems that is not fair if a problem occurs and you don't know if a problem is mr. Powell is saying all yeah we better figure out but he

030told me just a few minutes ago well this is a tough area so you know I'm kind of guessing they're not sure what's going to happen so my concern is there is a problem it it's gonna be seeing like too little too late as you had coming down and gonna come in oh yeah we'll fix this gonna tweak that and I think it's just a wet area so anyway that's my statement thing thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission and regards to this petition seeing no one I will read the motion the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approved the hideaway Lane plan project site plan and development agreement commissioner and they'll move move a commissioner Mills seconded by

031Commissioner Ackerman and we are in discussion before I hand it off to somebody there so for as long as we've had the packet which was since last week there's been a staff recommendation for postponement in the developers or petitioners request for a postponement so my fear in having a deep discussion this evening is that we aren't actually getting the full public comment on this item so I'm I will of course I'll listen to what everybody has to say but I would do encourage this body to vote for a postponement so that we could gather additional feedback and I will hand it off to Commissioner Ackerman Thank You mr. chair check in on well I do appreciate I don't know if more neighbors would come I don't know if neighbors were deterred by the recommendation for

032postponement and so I also hear the benefit of postponing now and getting you know their input so I guess I'll hold off and see if that's of interest now if we are to postpone I do want to just ask one thing of the developer so so I guess I guess take a quick poll are we having a light discussion and then moving on to postponement I didn't prepare in the way that I normally would because I saw this was being postponed and this has got a lot of complexity to it so I would really like to postpone however I do think that bringing up a few items that they can then address the next time around would be great so if there's a few kind of bullet list type things that we can give to

033the developer I'm totally in favor of that but I personally don't ready to review this because I just didn't do my normal due diligence on it because I saw it was recommended to postpone let's go so commissioner Akron let's start with the list thanks mister chair with respect to the the fence thing I understand you didn't acquire the property that long ago and it sounds like there's been a sordid history of different property owners I appreciate that it's your responsibility now and so while this is before this body if you could take back to the owner to get this fenced off while this is going through process I think it would mean a lot to the neighbors and certainly a lot to City Hall so if there could be some kind of protective fencing while

034it's going through process I think that would that would be good so so at the very least some change there would be would be great immediately and then in terms of the the other items that I wanted to touch on with respect to stormwater there isn't a lot in our staff report getting some comprehensive information about what the effects of this development will be on the movement of water and what you're doing to mitigate that would be helpful information on the changes in trip generation from a traffic perspective I mentioned 16 increased trips but didn't mention the unit or during what time span of the day on parking I did hear the residents although it seems like this site is over parked with three parking spaces per unit which which is a fair amount on

035the building quality I'll probably want to look to staff on assurances that our permitting process and inspection process is going to ensure that anything built in the city of Ann Arbor is safe and secure for its residents on the size of the buildings and the changes to green space it would be great to get a comparison not just visually but in terms of dimensions of any changes to the building envelopes as well and the impacts of green space commissioner brakes that touched on most of the concerns that I had as well the only other one that I would suggest that it sounds like there is opportunity for another for a public engagement meeting it sounds like there is requests from folks in the neighborhood who are existing there to deal with what construction is gonna

036look like and meeting requests that have not necessarily been fulfilled so indeed nice to see that that is moving forward and some citizen input in a neighborhood input is happening and I wouldn't be interested to hear a little bit more on just that its structural integrity of the houses that got raised a few times could speak to how the city sort of addresses issues like that that may sort of to be oh yeah it sounds like some of those things might be hit by the time the building officials yeah if they're dangerous and falling in and that's something we need know about they'll also be inspected before the project would be allowed to go forward if it was approved in any way shape or form before anything starts construction on that foundation it will be

037inspected especially because the length of time has been in ground in the ground mr. Mill's I think when we get the staff report next time to kind of understanding a little bit more about the necessity for the plan project modification and I assume that when they're when the petitioner talked about changes that happened in zoning since then that that was what was being referred to potentially but kind of understanding a little bit better where that is and how that came to be where it is that it's closer to the it sounds like the East property line then allowed by code how that came to be I'll just assert that particularly since we're moving to duplexes now and we're you know it's the requirement is 30 and it's asking for 20 yes there is a bigger

038setback on the other side link there's lots of other things that can be part of a planned project that helps meet that qualification and so I think we should be considering that like knowing what is on that list my Sherwood's just just a question about the easement in the back which the rear setback rear setback is going to about the railroad track so like to see how that's going to be fenced and how you're going to keep the children and others safe if if indeed that's going to be pretty close to it folks property mr. Ackerman Thank You mr. chair I'm gonna move to postpone but also just be in compliance with our ethics rules I said it would mean a lot to City Hall in the neighbors to get fencing I can't speak for

039City Hall it would mean a lot to this planning Commissioner and member of City Council I'll move to postpone this till our next meeting do we have a second Commissioner Mills seconded any further discussion on the post moment mr. woods did you want to postpone it to a date certain you said July think we asked a lot of questions so I'm gonna leave I think it would be best to let mr. Khan oh I said the next meeting but that makes more sense oh thank you all right so date my motion if I could friendly amendment so your date uncertain okay all right further discussion on the postponement all those in favor please say aye aye opposed it is postponed Thank You commissioners very much thank you moving on to dick village south site plan

040for City Council approval and we will begin with minute presentation petitioners presentation they will have up to ten minutes to present their project we will then open it up to or them will go to a staff report followed by public hearing and then discussion okay hold on one second you told me here to escape you didn't tell anything after these are just gonna be the general plan so you're gonna have to come out scroll through I'm not sure where you want to full screen mode everyone he's a little different good evening my name is Shaun of Aaron with these properties were the developer of the village south I have Ron Hughes with us today as well it was one of the principals at Hughes properties we have Tom Dillon Beck with Hobbes and black Diane

041McIntyre with Harvin Black who are architects and Tom covert and Ted Hirsch with MCI who are our civil engineers we are proposing today a 13 story apartment complex located at the corner of East University in South University we have gone through the design review board we've implemented a lot of the changes that the design review board came back to us with primarily is it related to this corner we have also worked very diligently with all of the various departments within the city and have addressed all of their concerns I believe to the best of our ability and what they were looking for it as well and with that I'm going to hand it over to Diane the answer to do the rest of the presentation then we'll be here to answer any questions Thank You

042Shawn thank you commission members Shawn mentioned Diane McIntyre with Hobbes and black architect I wanted to walk you through an overview of the Vic Phillips South project that John mentioned we're on South University Avenue and we are between East University and Church Street taking pretty much the whole block with the exception of 16 restaurant establishment good time Charlie's which would stay at the northeast corner of the site has not included in this property we are 13 stories of primarily student housing and as you can see from the rendering primarily a brick building with metal panel accents and stone accents as well we have two levels of underground parking proposed for a total of about 71 off street spaces that would be for resident use only I'm going to see how fast this will scroll through

043it's bringing us to our lower level plans of parking and then up to the first floor where you can see a bit more of the site and how it fronts on South University Avenue at the top of the screen and then connects actually between Eastern Aversa T and Church Street at the southern portion of the site and that that alley would actually be creating a pedestrian walkway between those two streets the first floor consists mainly of retail commercial tenant spaces and then you can also see the parking ramp to the below grade parking off of East University Avenue the building consists of about 133 living units we're focused primarily on one two three and four-bedroom units for this project no five or six bedroom units are proposed at this time and we're also incorporating affordable

044housing into this development as well amenity spaces are gathered mostly on the second floor and then as you move up to the building the 13th floor getting used to this Mouse would provide amenities spaces for the residents and anima d patio as well overlooking the university of michigan diag and looking at the North facade of the building which is right on South University Avenue the main residential entrance somewhat centered on the building and distinguishing itself with the use of different materials cast stone and stone framing the residential entrance different modules of retail commercial spaces along the first floor and then the northwest corner of the building actually having a recess at the first two floors and then bringing down a structural column element at the bottom of the 12 story glass tower and looking to

045incorporate kind of a visual graphic to help define the area this case it is a V logo for a big village south and as you know Vic village North is just opened just across the street as we moved to the South elevation along the alley and then the West elevation at East University Avenue additional retail commercial spaces entrance to the parking garage and then along Church Street there's also a retail element connecting with the existing restaurant establishment which would be good time Charlie's and then the pizza house establishment trying to make a connection as well with retail and commercial establishments the section of the building shows the building height to be 150 feet total that's to the top of the mechanical equipment screen the building itself would be more around 140 141 feet again two

046levels of underground parking facilities and that brings us back to the original rendering showing the massing articulation and materials thank you thank you thank you thank you I really don't have too much to add there's not a lot of complexity to the site I can just say this was a project that's been in the works for a while discussions with planet commissioning sorry not planning commission planning staff including what the DDA as well coordinating streetscape improvements which you all know are going which have been ongoing for a year or so right now so those discussions have begun quite a while ago so those details are essentially all flushed out really the only thing else to add that's a little unique about this project it's the first project that we've seen that's been that is utilizing

047the affordable housing premium so that will be regulated in the same way as our other affordable housing programs it would it's a deed restriction for the life of the project those believe it's 14 units that would need to be affordable for the life of the project there really there are no natural features on the site I mean it's a there's one landmark tree actually which is in the right-of-way and and that will have to be removed for the project and will be replaced with there's other trees to the right of way and through tree mitigation payments so that really summarizes up and staff is recommending approval at this time thank you at this time I'd like to open up the public hearing on this item there's anybody in the audience who wishes to address the

048Planning Commission in regards this item please step up to the podium state your name and address for the record and you'll have up to three minutes to address the Planning Commission thank you my name is Ethel Potts 1939 Jackson Road and I'm remembering back to the Calthorpe report the city spent a lot of money for a major study and planning report by the firm of California in particular there we had pictures the pictures were of a street with trees and retail along and rather low buildings is it is the is this building intended to fill any particular needs of Ann Arbor of Ann Arbor people or is just the wishes of the land seller and the developers that are being considered here does it fill any of our needs the downtown d1 and d2 zoning

049plants as in the UDC the unified development code states that the land-use and standards for South you I say to them it is the official adopted downtown character arrow a character area overlay quote let me quote the overlay the character area overlay the intent and standards of this overlay district are a mix of building types and sizes retail first on the first level should continue to reflect narrow Lots with small sky scale widths and Heights any type of any taller buildings should be at the center of the block not up to the street retain a variety of old small-scale retail and residential minimize impacts are nearby residential streets this is the end of the quotes from your own city code will the Commission will the Commission discuss the overlay district in the past the Commissioner

050has not I've attended your meetings where you've done downtown buildings that have an overlay character area and nothing was ever said by commission about this is the staff report say anything about the character area overlays I don't think so well at what point are we going to deal with them there in your city code there the law the local law at the time at the time of writing and adopting the D 1 and D 2 zonings the public was assured that the character overlays would protect exist existing small-scale residential and retail buildings that was the purpose of it is to let annarbor continue to be Ann Arbor will you'd be discussing that tonight I hope so will you state your reasons for your vote and we can and will your reasons for your vote be

051in the minutes also thank you thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission regards to this item seeing no one I'll close the public hearing and I will read the motion the inner BER City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approve the Vic village South site plan and development agreement subject to combining the Lots prior to issuance of any permits moved by Commissioner so they signify Commissioner hammerschmidt we are in discussion Commissioner breaks so forgot my computer at home saying I have all my notes but I'll try to graphics memory so a few things that I remember I wanted to follow up on one could I noticed in the in the report regarding the public meeting report there were one of the questions

052was about sidewalks and the width of them are around the building and it was I I think between three and five feet for the sidewalks what's the response along the streets are dictated okay that that question was primarily how does that pedestrian pathway work if I'm coming from Eastern University over to Church Street so correct me if I'm wrong time but from East you to the middle of the building you have a five foot walk and then if you go through the portion of the building that's on the north side that's a three foot walk which most people aren't probably going to use that but but if you go to the south side of the building can you show me where you're talking about where the three-foot walk might be so this section here is

053five feet as you come across here then you have an option you can either continue to go back through this portion right here mm-hmm that portion is only three feet but then if you come back over this sidewalk the civil shows it better than this plan but there's a walk here that walk is four feet though yes four feet there so you have a very between five and three B as they walk through the mid block of the building okay okay the other ones are all dictated by city ordinance and everything that made sense we are putting backs like for like or making bigger serious concerns yes and then with regards to the bicycle parking I saw that there's four Class C which I if I'm correct I from the Google Street Map that looked

054like they were existing bike parking maybe outside on Church Street as is is that the four Class C okay okay so it does not include the parking within the right-of-way okay that parking will be replaced this is as the DD 8 okay so this is yeah we will replace like for like on the on your side so all the bike hoops everything that is currently there as part of the streetscape plans we will be responsible for putting back after after we do construction just as what we did on the north project which we're doing right now okay and I I had a call in to the DDA about this but I didn't get it I get a chance to for them to then get a chance to give me a call back I'm sure you've

055talked more extensively with them around potentially a bicycle parking I was surprised for it sounds like there's a lot of bicycle parking inside on the first floor and I'd love to hear about that in a second but given the density of this building and the population that it's surveying which a student population it seems surprising there's not actually that much bicycle parking out front where people would want to use it during the fair or weather months and I'm curious how you would anticipate we don't control obviously that that's dictated by the DDA in their street seat client so the number of bike coupes and everything that had been there were part of the approval when that went through whatever the process was with the city so that isn't anything that we we control we can

056only control what's in the building on-site you know I can just add to that it is part I was not directly involved through the DDA but it was the source of many discussions how much bicycle parking you put in there right away you know there's trade-offs too much it gets congested so it's it is a DDA Shawn's correct it is a DDA decision but it has been thought through yeah I can't respond to all the specifics of it but yeah I guess maybe it's it's a good question more of the on street parking that probably could be removed to use provide carl's so and then there was a question I had another question around it looks like there's one one public parking space on street parking space that's being removed for this at the first

057of a seven thousand could you talk a little that looks like that's a one-time cost it is so with the DDA I think Matt it's like 75,000 or something yeah it'll be to remove that parking space and so where what that stem from was a number of these conversations like Matt had said that we had between the DDA engineering and traffic of where do you put the the the ramp into the building and it was determined between all of those our consultant as well that coming off of East you was the preferred location to have that and so as a result of that we obviously have to reduce one parking space because of you know distance that you have to have to the to this to the to the South University but also to one

058of the comments that came back from both DDA and I think engineering maybe was we are actually required on that corner there to actually bump that corner actually further out than what it currently is right now okay and I know this is not in our regulation so it's not really something that I know it came up in sort of the public questions that you received but we don't work in terms of lyft and uber we're not requiring that for large developments right now to provide that space is that correct that's correct and I think we should be putting that on to our work plan at some point we can't have developments of this type and say oh well they'll just we'll just suggest that they park over on the side we know that's not gonna

059happen I mean this is really becoming a problem in our downtown I think the challenge you have just as it is how do you do that on an urban site and that it's something that I think is a bigger overreaching than just saying to a developer it needs to be done obviously I know there have been conversations at one point in time with like the various loading zones that are both on Eastern University and Church Street of hey in the evening time we're gonna make those doober in the lift areas or we're gonna make them the Amazon area those are big obviously big questions because I can't tell you we get hundreds of packages every day right now into our building so it obviously is an issue between UPS FedEx Amazon all of these of

060how do you handle an urban area Amazon is bigger then I can you talk about how that front entrance has evolved since the design was initially proposed during our initial design review board process we had total design at the northwest corner it was recess somewhat like it show now but only at the first floor and part of the second floor and did not have anything really I think crowning it or making it stand out so for our second round of design review board we took a totally different approach and really took out any recesses at this and brought the whole building down but again I think the concern was that it did not stand out was not to have enough character and there was some concern about you know if you wanted to say you

061know meet me at the clock tower if they you know meet me at in this case the V where we're taking a recess out of both first and second floor and then bringing down a a dominant feature to help anchor this spot at that really lively active corner at one point time even the facades were a little bit different on the second floor and so we took back those comments of the one I'd like she said one of the big things was is what's the identifying feature so I can tell somebody meet me at this location and that's something what we came back with so so this is after the second sort of round of design correct yep yeah so I don't know if this is gonna evolve anymore and I know that you don't

062have to take our recommendations but this is kitty corner to the diag right one of the most iconic entrances like it one of the most iconic spots in our city I would say and when I'm looking at from that it from the initial pictures is you sort of look across and see a big column with a V on it and you know there's also that's not necessary that's not a reason we cannot approve the building I just think it's a really wasted opportunity for your building there are also some things there that you can't really see but we're doing some nice light features at the front to really liven and brighten up that area I'm sure there's some things I can't see but the things that I can see this seems this building is gonna

063be around for a long time this is the character of South you that you this is this is what people are seeing and there's some opportunity here to really I think push this a little bit further to make this something that is beautiful coming out of the diagonal coming out of the one of those beautiful spots of our town and you know I you know the the building itself is is what we're sort of used to seeing in terms of student high-rises and I think you know much of it is is is fine but I do think that that entranceway could use a little bit of emphasis to make that something that is memorable for our community and I think the challenge you have and part of the reason why you go through the design

064review board is everybody's going to have their own slight take on what does that mean because we can make another change and you may like it but you may not like it and you know that's not going far enough so that's the challenging aspect that we have at that aspect they certainly recognize that to be true but it's something that came up at both design review meetings and after the second one there was still an emphasis to push on this area and so we're the next body to see that after it and I I'm sure that if you ask each one of us there will be slightly different reactions to this however I'll be curious to hear what others say but I I do think that that is something that could use an additional emphasis

065and would be worth worth it for the community to see that could you talk a little bit about the affordable housing just this is the first time we've seen something like that come here and what we've had questions about how that what's what that looks like in terms internally managing so I can't specifically address how how that is managed how it's handled from a management standpoint so our operator who are utilizing on the north project is asset living they're the largest third-party operator of student housing multifamily in that in the US and so we've had we had actually a lot of conversations with them they're like yes we managed we we have variety of different projects at different locations that do this type of thing because it is becoming more common to incorporate affordable housing

066into developments and everything else so I don't have the specifics of how that is but our manager does have that experience of how they handle that aspect I wonder I'm sure that staff has thought about this if I remember correctly it's 80% of AMI and so considering this is a building that serves a student population and that is a population that often is under the poverty line anyway I'm curious what that looks like in terms of providing these premiums and and and how we how we consider that as a city ya know it's a good question what they when they're registered is affordable units through the county's program then the county will take they will have to take from that to fill these affordable even it's old but you're right I mean anybody can we

067can't discriminate student or non student oh who gets on that list so yes it is possible that students couldn't get on that list but I mean they'd have to be already beyond that listen I'm just gonna have like students walking in off the street saying you know okay so they're coming through the county exactly they're gonna have to be through the program it's gonna be managed in the similar way as our other affordable housing progress but yes you're correct I mean that's an issue that we may struggle with mr. woods I feel like a teeter-totter so just a few more questions about that northwest corner can you tell us what what one would see looking at it from across the street on the interior of the building I mean are you I think the Design

068Review Board said something like a maybe up a large chandelier or something like that you're thinking about public art or what what you're planning for that but so obviously we haven't fully vetted out the whole lighting scheme but we do have some lights up there in regards to that there are conversations we can have obviously with with an artist of doing something on that column as well so there's a lot of flexibility we have there I don't want to say we have all those answers just right at this moment of what exactly we're going to do there I know one of the conversations I'm kind of jumping but it ties back in is is when you look at the back area of how do you make that pedestrian friendly you know we're doing a lot

069of lighting we're going to talk with you know an artist on one of the walls of making a mural like you see in a lot of the downtown areas we actually have the building where night steak houses downtown and we did a mural there at that alleyway so there are those types of things that we will look at there and and look at that in this this area as well so what also happens here too though is the the first floor tenant here does have the youth this doesn't go all the way out all the way to the property line so it's it's further back so it creates an outdoor area for them to be able to utilize seating or people to come in and do seating as well while still walking through and being

070able to see across corner to corner there it's not like you come and there's a there's a column right there does that column have to be made out of cement it's an actual structural column so this kind of shows that we create a little bit of a railing here around this so that it still creates a pedestrian area where pedestrians can be underneath the building as well it creates an area in here the tenants can utilize to have some seating as well okay so that's that's just for the retail tenant whatever that you think that business is right there yeah come in and out of that interest yeah so do you have any sense yet as to whether or not some of the current businesses along that Street are going to be able to well

071most of the businesses that are there are have been relocated so PNC Bank which is there is actually moving across into the north collision north project or a big village north project underground printing is moving across into the big village north as well oasis piece which is or no waste this restaurant is moving actually where the old China gate restaurant used to be at so there are a lot of those that that have relocated already within the block area so it does leave a lot open there we have some we've had some interest from other businesses in the area to look at that we haven't gotten any further in there obviously yet with them but there has been some discussion with other businesses on that that area and so you own this property and then

072the one right across the street from it yeah we yep so tell yourself so has there been any discussion about some sort of a walkway between your two properties over here no that's way too costly to do trust me we thought about it but thank you mr. Gibb Randall oh sorry yeah right slide yeah so and I think part of the the character of that area is that it's kind of cheap Dajjal with whole bunch of little funky little businesses and that's part of the appeal and I think that's part of the the character overlay kind of intent with some of that and I'm just wondering how flexible these spaces could be to be able to accommodate any kind of future hole in the wall spot that that is just you know I don't know

073that retains some of that there there's always a challenge with that of how do you do that and create something that's still leasable from a space and so obviously with the other aspects that you have to put in there with the best of you'll that you go to like over ten of dspace trying to break that up still give them access to a back service corridor those are the types of challenges would be rather challenging and trying to break these into multiple little ones is how do you then service the back of house but also have the rentable square footage that's needed in order to support that I'm not saying that they can't get split but it also is market driven by who are the retail tenants that want to go in there you see

074a lot more obviously a lot of restaurants to come there come in to the downtown area they they require a little they hire larger square footage than somebody else does or you you may have a coffee shop even coffee shops that some of the coffee shops we have have sizable square footage as well so it is a challenge and the greatest challenges is how do you make the building circulation work with everything else that you have to have on the first floor so I guess I would just request some flexibility to be able to retain some of that if possible I know with some other properties that we've had I'm just thinking of the kind of Lowertown one that we did where it was a little they weren't quite sure whether it was going to

075be you know commercial or residential and they were building things to be able to build flexibility in two things and so I would just put that forth that part of the feeling of that place is that there I understand those design challenges and I understand that they that there's current code that you have to follow which is different when it was built a long time ago and but that that is part of the change I think is that feeling of that you're every 20 feet you're passing something different you know that that is not a big monolithic retail experience there that feels much more kind of sleek and standard and and maybe this is just a changing nature of how this area is going to evolve I'm kind of tickled that you still have good

076time Charlie's on the corner even though I think you guys probably hate it I like it that it's kind of tucked in there and that there's these little remnants of you know the these older buildings that are still within there the holdouts to kind of remind us of you know what the character has been for a long time so again not a lot that we can legislate at this point with that but I guess I would ask you to keep an open mind and we always do I mean if we we have we have always looked at buildings and changed things up you know even on the North project we had one tenant wanted to take all of it then no they didn't and we had a little or space and so you you try

077to work with how things have been flow with with who comes in and who's interested to and I guess they have a larger global question you all have done quite a few developments now in this area and what do you feel like our lessons learned for you what is different about this building what do you feel like has evolved in terms of your approach I mean the first one was way down south course that looks pretty different so yeah that's a lot different down there what do you feel like how you've evolved like as what you're learning what you are what you feel what's different about this one well so it's a part of the evolution with this one is in part of the reason why we have that you know the Vic village name

078and create like a village in that area because we do have multiple properties in that we eventually will you know redevelop with this one which you see is not you don't have five six bedrooms so it's to complement the adjacent building next door as we look at the amenity areas we're complementing the two different properties in regards to the tenants being able to utilize either side the project so if I like I have a fitness on demand on in a full type of fitness room over on North here we're using more of a CrossFit type environment it's a different type of theme we're putting more of a game room like Xbox Playstations that's the newer thing nowadays so you you evolve obviously as you see the market and obviously this is obviously a student-driven project

079obviously so those are some of the things we've seen you know we've looked at there and complementing each other with those buildings so the project's complement you look at the different materials and that is partly obviously is what's been driven by this body and by city council in regards to how do you modulate it how do you change materials and so we you know in this building you see a lot more glass on this one I think we have the same amount of brick tones like number of brick tones but different how we apply those as well you know but every sites unique it's challenge everyone's got its own unique challenges and you try to apply what you've learned and the other ones and bringing them bringing them forward and what you see the industry

080is looking at it so do you see this as I mean I guess I'm I'm thinking of what miss Potts brought up and just thinking about the character of the place and everything is the plan to just pretty much take over the entire area I mean it's like it kind of makes me I know again this is the word reviewing this but what is exactly the process of where is the overlay district how does that really play in really in terms of the review process with the staff I mean because they're they're all in there there's all the descriptions in there and you're supposed to follow them and everything but clearly it this one really is pretty different than than what's going in and so I'm just curious like what you know how does that

081get waited in all of this like you just kind of hope that that you have a couple of holdouts and that you have a few three and four-story buildings that are left in there or like what what happens really well it's curious well I mean you know we can't stop right the evolution but I mean they're they're art like you said see the character overlay this project and any future projects will fall within those character overlay guidelines but they don't necessarily it it can they regulate and if you can see in the comparison chart but there's only so many things they regulate like setbacks you know massing and I can't think of some of the other terms offhand like yeah the masking articulation the front setbacks oh the offsets it's a street walls but those

082kind of Street well so I'll push it back and things like that but they don't we don't delineate like I'm gonna say like store frontage exactly sure like like you said the previous one they're a mix of various sizes I mean some of them are barely ten feet wide it seems but the characters overlays don't really address that I mean they they they don't I mean there's there's language in there that says these are the kind of things that we want to look to help preserve and we'll use that in some of our analysis in looking at this and a design review board used some of that in pushing back from some of their initial elevations and using that so we do look at we do use it and the things where there are definitive

083numbers you know those it meets it but it's really hard and I remember the discussions very well over do we regulate building lists and things like that to keep these smaller you know things but I mean if fact is it it is true many of those now don't don't meet building codes for plaque right so you really recreate those things okay so it is a challenge but ah we can we kind of work in there and you can work with what's brought to us and try and form it in the best way we can get it to you guys eventually up even higher so I don't know if the answers your question specifically but if this you know there's nothing stopping from redeveloping right or anybody else yeah and so in other words in terms

084of that character overlay really like this whole kind of four block area or whatever it is that gets covered could truly be all all of these size buildings and that's pretty much what because so the character overlay really doesn't well it does I mean I think it does some I think it does help but it's not getting you I think what you want exactly the smaller and and I don't think it all has to stay the way that it is I'm not saying that but it does it they are variations on a theme you know the ones the the new ones that are there you know and and part of that is our code you know in terms of what we're asking for and we don't have form base button code either so that's that's

085part of what we've how we've structured our system too so I guess I'm I'm I'm I'm just putting it out there into the world for us to ponder some more commissure so they thank you maybe I'll start kind of continue that conversation then go to some other details so when looking at that character overlay district I would say in terms of small commercial when I review this we're looking at 2,500 square feet is kind of a max and 1,500 square feet is the men I think one of my my preferred favorite unit is Tennant II as it's just got the corridor between both sides like it wedges in there as its own kind of isolated piece versus B and D which looking at it there are ways to slice those up into segments and tie

086into those corridors if necessary I've seen and done it before so you can have D 1 and D 2 and B 1 and B 2 for those tenants so I feel like there is that possibility if necessary but the small-scale when working on spaces like this is almost relative like modern Building Code with accessibility and egress demands requires more square footage within uses for that and so the kind of original thousand square foot you know small hole in wall is actually not very feasible to meet all of those building requirements and so creating them actually doesn't offer the opportunity to get build-outs completed and people move in so small it's actually relative to what the building code so when we're looking at 2500 square feet it's actually relatively small ah when you're actually to put

087the bathrooms and the egress and all those things so I feel like it it's it's right at the edge of it but it's hitting kind of that scale take out about 200 square 400 square feet just four bathrooms right and so you know if you get into a kind of larger restaurant it's like four bathrooms you know really take up a lot of space kind of the other point of that overlay district that I'm looking at is the minimizing the impact on the adjacent residential streets and the density here you know what we're talking various sizes we've got our 4c South and adjacent to it and so if we can put a substantial amount of units here relieving some of that demand of units that we could see a lot more development our foreseeing the

088character of those old houses I feel like that's that's part of the protection of what can we do on this street versus having it trickle into the neighborhoods part of this overlay district is to let this district protect those nearby residential streets so I think it's weighing those pros and cons to figure out what this district can do and has to do versus the other so like I really appreciate my spots raising this and keeping an eye on this SPC projects going through with this but there are you know a variety of factors within that territory to to kind of balance them out so especially with the kind of small commercial from my expertise that's kind of how I see it Wade so I'm just gonna put that out there as my reason for supporting

089this project as it really said oh really district questions about the project there's the additional transformer area if required in the middle of that walkway yeah so it's a pretty significant like pedestrians basic it doesn't happen or even if it does happen so I'm interested since in between to more narrow pathways how that space is designed and what that experience is especially when it comes to lighting and overhangs and things so I can't give you the exact so yet we're still working fully with DTE and exactly what is required so we have an agreement with the six eleven projects to the south of us so they have their yeah transformer yard they have their transformer yard so we get a transformer in there as it stands right now we're gonna at least need two transformers

090we know oh because besides the building fire pump needs one the building needs one but we're still working with DTE and how many switch cabinets do you need how does that got a layout you know because DT has gone through and completely changed how they service high-rise buildings and this will probably be one of the first buildings that's underneath their new program of how they feed it so we don't even fully know that yet we're still trying to get all of that because you talk to one person they tell you one thing you talk to another person they tell you another thing and now we think we have everybody that's involved so once we know exactly those requirements you know most likely there will be a transformer there of some form that will be blocked

091and screened just like it is now back over there it so is this the maximum footprint we'd be looking at that's plan of the transformer yeah I think you're looking at that because based on the clearances that you have to have on all four sides in order to service it okay so we may not need the gate I don't know just because again that depends on how that gets oriented and how they can get in and everything else so there's still a lot of that that has to be flushed out a little bit with DTE okay and then I guess because it's still a large kind of pedestrian area in that middle between those two Iowa I'd be interested with or without the transformer area it's so large footprint for pedestrians to use if you

092could tell me you mentioned a little bit about lighting Oh people are mingling back there smoking dumping garbage so I'll go with how we see people currently they really don't care anyway I'm gonna be honest they'll they'll walk through anywhere they can get away through they're gonna walk so what we're gonna do our best to because this area actually so this is all I think all of that's covered it's by the parking spots it's open yeah okay okay so so obviously we're gonna look at you know lighting we'll have cameras back here as well from a security standpoint like I said ultimately once we get through all the mechanical equipment and ventilation what's where is a grill and where it's not a grill you know we'll look at adding art art back there like we've

093done at other locations as well whilst why people can walk through here this will primarily be just lighted the intent is to probably still bring them through this way to the south across this walk as well the good thing about this area here is there is not a huge amount of traffic we have four cars those are primarily meant for building management purposes so they're not coming and going on a very quick basis and then pizza house it comes in and goes underneath their building and it's only one way in so they only come in and then go down and those are periodically throughout the day I know when we do our traffic study it wasn't actually a huge amount of them coming in and going out so we can we can work along with

094there you know try and create directional ways to pet you know pathways to get through that be it on the on the walk itself and directing people or creating some Avenue so I don't want to have the full answer how that's gonna be me done because we have a lot of different ideas and we have to fully vet out every where's DTS end of the day where they at and everything else so so and then lighting is it utility lighting or is that kind of design future lighting like what's it'll be more of a design feature lighting we obviously have to look at what the photometric are and how many foot candles and everything else and have that help direct you know some of what we have along though those those pathways so I would

095say you're looking at more like a utility LED light along here just to keep it nice and bright along here yeah pilots would be my next question yes location don't just protect for vehicular within distance yeah we didn't have value through that's correct because of the distance we had to maintain with the adjacent building and for that small sidewalk yeah for the the sidewalk and then the ingress that was required for the agreement that we have also with the adjacent property on her as well so those were probably more decorative because we do have more options there along that billing to create more decorative there whereas across here when you you only have a short pathway you're just gonna want to keep something like so yeah and then bollards because I don't see anything kind

096of blocking you know even past that transformer for I'm thinking you know electrics like motorcycles and things can actually screw all the way through that right now I mean you can get through bollards with a small scooter - yeah we and when you work with MCI and figuring out where exactly those have to go obviously because like I said once we know where DT is at what equipments back there is there are things that we have to further protect as well how do we mean attain that and how does the building flow as well because you have your trash room here mm-hm for us and it coming out 4x they're trying to have a whole lot of bolyars here is gonna be a problem just with city services and things on those lines picking up

097a thing also my next question is the railing for the patios on the third floor and the renderings they show all the way across and how I'm reading the plan is that the balconies aren't like there's roof overhang labeled and then balconies and the balcony Park patio isn't the entire length of that building facade this is the area yep so both sides that entry that those railings run the whole kind of length of that storefront on either side but when I look at the plan there's a kind of roof over level two and then some line strong and patio at level three is the roof finish differently there than the patio area so to give you an example so it on the north project so you have multiple units across the front you may have

098three across the front so they'll have an area where it's the pedestals the railings regular roof so the petals will sit up eight nine inches but then the roof is down eight nine inches and so it's regular roof so I'm just imagining like everybody lined up specifically those patios have those patios and they're not like okay I just wanted to clear if I want to look at an elevation versus plan and make sure that those are in sync I think my last one got answered which was what was the intended use in the overhang area for that retail is that that's for that retail yeah we're trying to block that on I would kind of reinforce commissioner briggs his comments about the design and that i mean we've seen it at the corner of Main

099and here on the same kind of columns and setback for an entrance and it does something I don't think it's the successful statement of a piece that's been kind of set here and so I think there's definitely I wouldn't I would request some more so I have a have a question and this is the confusing part that we have obviously you have to go through the design review process and so that process is mainly focused on the design aspects of the building and so now we come back and now there are additional design changes that are wanted I'm just trying to understand that process because you know we we we I don't think these are changes know are that we have any control over okay trying to change because I'm like do we have to

100go back to design this is a really strong suggestion yes gotcha we might talk about brown freak later but but yeah even even in terms of yeah the art in the alleys and kind of what that happens here is a statement I think moving it forward we want this to be a successful project when we talk about character overlay districts you want to so here's a question do you have suggestions because we asked the Design Review Board and they don't really give us a lot of suggestions and so that's the challenging part that we have we hear something we take that back we've applied it the best that we think it applied we come now and you're like well we think you can do more so do you have any suggestions because yeah you know

101I don't want us to go back to the drawing board and then come back and in the council see something and they're like wait a second you know so I mean it's hard to make design recommendations on the fly even if you want to email us but yeah I think there's stuff like it also feels like a couple of pieces that were you know solving the column and then plugging light in right there objects place instead of considered in context of its facade and the rest of the kind of ground floor and what it's working with so I think that that I think is what I'm more reacting to as they feel like components instead of an integrated design to the facade and draw it works as a statement and yeah and these are more

102just kind of preferences at this point but not requirements Asians to move forward but the yes so those are my main concerns at this point Thank You Commissioner Eckerman it's nice to see something move forward it's my hopes that new premium reforms will go through City Council and this may be the first and the last or the first and the penultimate to utilize this version but who knows I also see the need for increased density in the near campus area in the last 15 years the university has increased its enrollment by 10,000 and with private development and the construction of new dorms we still see a significant shortage of bedrooms just to the net increase of students which is shocking at the theory of development we've seen but that's just the nature of a growing

103university that does not quit and we need to house these students and if we don't have them near campus they're gonna they're gonna be chewing up single-family homes which as I hear from residents isn't desired either and so I think this is this is best I appreciate that it's mixed use I appreciate that their retail opportunities I will also add my comments about the corner I think this is going to be the commercial entrance to the city I think across the street you still have the historic espresso Royale that adds a little bit more character and differentiation to that corner you know other than the School of Social Work right you have like kind of a historic you have law quad you have the dorm I have a blankie on its name is that Martha

104cook and and then West Hall the the iconic old engineering building and I think West Hall does really well is it's a retro brick it also has a lot of curved archways with square windows so you have a lot of right angles here I mean it's entirely right angles and seeing something break that up might be interesting and I think it also could create a really great opportunity for that retail stall at the corner for something kind of flagship and iconic something for your commercial real estate broker to really work with and do something significant and meaningful as people experience an arbor for the first time matriculating in also say that West Hall you know has the the really red brick it has the cast stone and it also has the really aged copper and

105I think all of those probably offer some kind of context that you could could reference in your architecture something that would really try to draw those two sides of the corner together in an interesting way I'll say to you know mr. Hughes Sean you guys are the closest thing we have to local developers when it comes to head to student housing downtown and if someone's going to take a risk on architecture I think it can be you guys I'm still trying to get bill Kenley his clock so you know if I think if everyone says it's subjective and we're nervous we're gonna get a lot of right angles we're gonna get a lot of brown buildings and I think I think there's some opportunity to take small risks to do something much more interesting in

106reference to West Hall so I'll leave it there I appreciate the comments I think that helps give us a little bit more you know because again when Design Review we kind of try to ask some questions a little okay but what do you want to see and it was like well kind of okay that's the lunch air but okay Commissioner Mills I don't totally know what that comment about the clock was but honestly in my mind a clock would be better than the beat I honestly like in terms of a landmark the V is underwhelming it does nothing for me personally but I also like everything that commissioner Ackerman just said like yeah that would be awesome the other things that I have our most somewhat covered but mostly on that first floor again the

107staff report talks about two to four retail spaces I see three to five so I just want to make sure that we're understanding it is three to five okay great oh I forgot his calculator that day forgotten it off to the side that's what I kind of assumed um because you do have this experience I want you to talk to me a little bit about how often but groves are used you know it varies right now nobody's really used any of it at North I don't know if that's just because we've we've been wrapping things up and people don't want to put their bikes in there just yet you know with landmark it's hard to say because we actually sold that building two weeks after we had done we'd finish it so I'm not quite

108sure how much that bike room is actually utilized there so I can't actually say I think it's hit or miss you have you have people nowadays that use lift and now with the invent of the spin the scooters that everybody who drives on the sidewalks that you're not supposed to you see a lot of that going back and forth with where we're located at as well a lot of people are just walking to their classes because of the proximity that we do have so it is it is hard to say because you are seeing a lot of that changing more and more with the demographic of the students that are actually in nowadays so I unfortunately don't have a full answer to be able to give you how much is utilized and how much it's

109not got it I don't know if that's like if I have time sometime I'm gonna go around and figure out what those look like I I want I would appreciate it so I want it there I'm not gonna like I appreciate that you have a space I given the previous conversation I now kind of have a better sense of what's covered in the back how open it is and what's not I was really afraid that it was like very narrow I'm still a little bit nervous particularly about that five foot side about five foot wide section on the west side - you know if I'm coming in with a bike I don't know how long that stretches you know you know getting through with a bike I if it were me right like I would

110probably use the butt or the the vehicle lane that you have on the east side to get out because it's just more open Oh on the other side well then how the bike rooms are kind of split right now - you know that could get tweaked obviously as we talked with dte more - so if they're more on one side or the other that'll help I mean one of the things that just strikes me again this is not in our code anywhere but how easy it is if you park a car to get into the building to your you know apartment versus how easy it is if you park a bike to get in which is not like how many doorways do you have to go through to get to an elevator or a stairway

111a lot right and so that's not that's not facilitating that's not again this is not something that our code requires but my guess is that if they're underutilized this may be one of the reasons I think it is much more open than at least on the plan I anticipated so I'm like but I'm still like I'm worried that it's not gonna get utilized and then people are gonna say see we don't need bicycle infrastructure when in fact it's just because you know it's you have to go outside and through multiple doors and walk and so yeah I I think I could agree if this was more of a market right apartment complex in downtown but with students it's it's a tort that are totally different beast this is exactly why I think instead getting to

112the very earlier comments you're gonna have a whole bunch you you just said it yourself chain two trees on the front right and like that's not that's not we want to see it occupy coops I'd be happy yeah it means our code and I appreciate that it's there I appreciate that you're going above and beyond I wish it were better integrated that just like just like there is a direct access from that parking garage into the unit you have to go outside this way right and so I wish that that we're here but it's I think it's more of us kind of food for thought and and maybe food for the next time we have buildings coming for us but overall I think what other people said this is the right place for density this

113does take pressure off of some of the newer neighborhoods there I think that I I'm confident that the corner can be improved and that you guys have some maybe ideas now I'm happy that there are three to five retail spaces because I think the more kind of diversity that we have the better but I also appreciate somebody who designs these places route tamp tempering our expectations in that regard so thanks mr. hammerschmidt I think most of what I was gonna ask what was addressed as well except I'm gonna be a broken record about this ally I have this thing for Ali's I love them I think that they're they're public space that can be utilized if done you know in a way that like makes sense design wise I think that transformer box or transponder

114thing does kind of get in the way but I'm just trying to think of like what could be done because it's kind of weird space I can't actually visualize what the experience would be like going through this like I just worried that people will feel kind of unsafe and you know obviously like the garbage room is back there so I wish I sort of had a better picture of like what the section would look like through that alleyway but I'm just thinking of things like and like you could put in there and these just suggestions but in terms of like some sort of seating back there like primarily in this area that when it comes out of the building that's right behind the parking ramp area or this is kind of crazy but maybe even

115some sort of like water feature I mean it's it's good it's a lot of space back there and I think there's not really any other open space that this building can use so you know I like the artwork idea when you look at the South elevation it's just all walls so they just scream to me like something could be done there and then I'm just thinking of like I'm actually thinking specifically about Sally in Detroit but you know the overhead string lights can make the experience feel like something that you want to walk into I mean I think on the east side it's right across the street from Rick's maybe and some other like restaurant retail so people might actually be accessing it that way and just making it feel like this is an entrance

116and not some like scary back of a building I think would help something Commissioner Mills was just saying made me look at the bike storage room a little bit more so you can only go in and out one way there's no entrance from the bike storage room into the building you have to go back outside am I looking at this right okay I also don't love that I kind of agree with you that why would people do that yeah please still to go back outside um and then just one other thing like when you obviously can access the building from the corridor it's like if you live there going in there that's a good benefit but these just look like no very long passageways back to a door where you can get to stairs like

117I might encourage some sort of like murals or something on those walls too or just to make it again like you're sort of walking down like this very long hallway make it in a nicer experience for people that might be accessing it from an alley that makes sense you talking to in turn your register interior I would point and show you if I could yeah the one caveat there is that these are a lot of times used by the service corridors and they will get be completely up so I put a mirror up is going in okay maybe just break pain that you do bright paper I hate I'm gonna be painted a lot I thought I mean I don't have any data to back this up but I feel like if it's a space

118that feels more like a space and less like a service corridor people might actually treat it better if it looks like something I mean I totally up to you might be worth piloting I forget what students are like I guess I think it's all I have mr. woods just a couple questions that I wondered one is well each of the bedroom units then have a window all right good and then are you doing anything green with this building have I missed it like a green roof anything no missed opportunity I guess or so so what's on the top of the roof just the mechanics and stuff yeah mechanical okay it would you know it would be nice to have something green up there thank you for the affordable housing we appreciate that but but we

119also like green things too and did you indicate that the landscaping is all going to be a part of whatever the DDA is doing in that area yeah so I forgot what all parks required but yeah primarily everything is what the DDA has requested as part of the city streetscapes or what we had to do oh sure east you in church I could just add it it's on the site plan as well as like on detailed sheets and as well as intense about them in agreement and they've worked it out with the DDA in advance to receive their about five different farmers that have talked to us yes so it's covered okay all right good okay Machinery burns and if I kindly requested to provide some explanation for the way in which we were going

120to vote so I was going to take that request seriously I think this project is a good example of one where I feel that I have to vote in favor of the petition because it meets all the requirements but I think that all of the comments are evidence that the requirements are substandard right so that a project can meet those requirements and yet I think leave so much leave us kind of wanting for so much more and maybe just to offer one more perspective on why maybe the design feels like it could be better are we talking specifically the corner I'm talking about the whole thing I guess at this point which is just to say I understand that from a development perspective there's no incentive to be to take a risk and so I

121think what we see before us is something which is kind of nice within the standards of what's known and familiar and proven to work but maybe one way that we could think about that is that you could kind of pick this building up and probably place it anywhere it wouldn't it wouldn't change very very little which is to say that there's nothing that's been particularly considered in its design that is I think caring for the character of its site and its location but I'm I'm kind of shocked so I'm what I'm new to the plan commission such a certain extent it's interesting from each observe the way in which the project can kind of meet all of its legal requirements and still have so many things that we all wish it could have that we

122can only offer merely as suggestions or or preferences but I'm surprised that the character overlay requirement for the offset above the street wall is 5 feet right so the character overlay is it's supposed to maintain this kind of two-story the kind of vibe of a two and three storey streetscape and the way it does that is by having this offset but the offset is only five feet so in effect you get a building that feels like it's 11 13 stories high not two storeys high so I don't know maybe at some point the character of relationship we visited so and then maybe just as one less thing in regards to alleys there's just if you're interested there's a project in Nashville that was completed maybe only a year ago by a small architectural practice called

123Sports the last letter is a Z I think not an S so sports of the Z but they did a that an alley kind of poly revitalization project in Nashville it's really nice that might just be worth checking out that involves just bright green seating thanks alright I have a list of questions and we'll head back to some other commissioners so affordable housing where's the affordable housing going to be located in the building but it was discussed with the county at one point that they would like that dispersed throughout the building and not just all on one floor and that the residents of the affordable housing would of course have access to the same amenities and although was it mentioned the same building entrance because I guess in some communities that is not the case

124so 14 units and has not been cameras which units yet I would encourage that they be dispersed throughout the building not just before not just one style of a unit but dispersed all throughout the building and I guess the next question is how big are those units going to be a minimum of 600 square feet maybe 625 hard to say exactly 600 square feet then in regards to so let's talk about parking so we're seeing many projects in the downtown area going to the cities and the DDA's parking structures to get additional apartments I guess this is more a question for staff then we hear the DDA the last the Ann Street parking structure saying we're out of space so how are they gonna get what he wants spaces I know that so I can

125answer the answer that question before I can better than again so so based upon north there are no parking spaces left in forest structure we're not going to be able to go and get more parking we may be able to maybe get evening passes which is one of the things we did on north but primarily we'll be using the the contribution and loo aspect of it so can you talk a little more about that what's the contribution so no I don't forget what the amount is I want to say it's like 50 something is it a purse pot it's a purse pot yeah it's a purse space I want to say it's like around 55 I think yeah somewhere in there it's a 55 contribution to the parking system I believe it's to the DDA

126and to get put into the park it's not correct it would be great to know that number not the best small effect in any way that vote there but yeah I can't remember off the top I want to say it's like 55 and I've asked you this question before and anytime anybody comes with a campus project to us I asked this question and that is the supply-demand you know I'm sure you've crunch your numbers before you've started this process but can you talk to us a little bit more about the supply and demand and what you're seeing and like what's happening in the north and what your expert or the fully leased up at north you may have one or two beds available but it's not because the people not coming in it's just because

127of we don't have any male beds left we have female beds left and so we've had quite a bit of people who actually come in this week still looking for spaces for the upcoming year so you're still seeing the demand out there obviously the as you well know location is everything thick Norfolk south I believe by far have the best locations of anywhere in downtown in regards to their backs foot all the developers say well yes but in regards to proximity of actual to campus I think those two habits so one of the reasons why we change the one two threes and fours is we see that demand still highly out there for those types of units the fives and sixes we were able to to lease we don't have any problems with those but

128you still see the high demand for one two threes and fours and so that's why these units are one two threes and fours to make those more marketable in the market what we're seeing still out there so you know as councilman Ackerman had noted as well you know the university is still adding students but they're not adding a whole lot of beds so there's still a great deal of demand that is out there I think believe still in the downtown area and then what's next for you guys since you own another block or two right now I I was worried about getting north completed and now working on south and then I'll worry about what's else out there but we are we are doing so we own the building we're trying to get restaurant and

129I used to be at so that is going through like we said moving Oasis we're doing a facade renovation to that billing it as well for the tenants that are there the next one after we get done with this would be to move to eat to the the East site which is where middle-earth used to be at what we plan to do on that we don't fully have that fully vetted out obviously because you know got to see where the markets at what what what's demand is there as well so and then so the other piece just so you know I haven't driven on South you and so long because it's been under construction since probably four years now at this point probably um can you talk a little bit about construction timeline since I

130think this is the first long time that there hasn't been construction on South you yeah so overall we're finishing right now we're just an overall where South used that so we're finishing up that north streetscape work there right now so I believe we have to be completed by the end of next week in conversations with city engineering and everything so by the end of next week we should have all that in there DDA may still have some of the work they have to do like coming in doing the plantings and things along those lines that they have to do this project we probably would be breaking ground sometime in the spring time where we would be doing more out in the street again as we would we will obviously fence at office we do demolition

131and some of the excavation and everything too and we're working through those with logistics of how do you logistically get in when you're demoing and excavating two stories down roughly oh how do you get that out of the site as well so we're still working through all those those requirements so so that's where this is looking at and I believe the completion date would be in 2022 and then in regards to design so I challenge you maybe it's not this project maybe it's next one brown brick brown I talk about this all the time the city's turning brown and it's every project that we're seeing different tones of it and South you has a lot of character that's going away you know funky character and it's becoming this block so I really challenge you and

132your architects down the road to come up with something that's unique that's maybe not all Brown I appreciate that this project has more glass and that you're introducing more glass to it but I think we need to do we need to strive to do a little butter in the city obviously nothing that we have control over but something that I you know you guys are there's close to local developers as it gets so I ask that you try that for your next project just as you know I this point it might be too late but for me you know just that corner across the street from the diag just removing that column is yeah I and I don't know if it's feasible I'm not an architect it's a structural column I I'm sure there's a

133way I'm sure but I'm not gonna architect so I can't it is what it is but that would be the only thing that I would I would add to or the thing that I would subtract in order for it to be more attractive in my opinion and with that I will head to mr. Brooks well it's not in there yet about dark skies compliant if you could make every attempt to be cognizant of light pollution and yeah we're not gonna be repeating some of the stuff on North where we have up lights and everything else so yeah we'll be looking at that and the impact of how that ordinance is flushing out and how does that imply down in these areas as well so okay and then the other thing that just got brought up

134I think I understood what you were saying but I I guess it did raise a question for me the feedback that you've gotten from the county in terms of affordable housing was yeah making sure that it was dispersed through the building and not a separate entrance I assume that that you were saying that that is what is going to happen in this building as well not that that was still up for debate correct yeah we you can't image gonna do segregated my understand I can't do segregated we wouldn't do be doing segregated anyway I wasn't sure great Commissioner Mills wondering you have noted that you'll you know be able to provide the 71 phases here underground but then they'll be this payment in lieu for the balance how do your tenants feel about that like

135are they bringing do they want to bring cars and don't have them could you share with us oh with north with north you saw I mean you saw some people that just said well I'm not gonna rent their cousin on a car you saw it some people are like I'm fine with the evening passes there are other locations within the area where they were able to find parking if they really really wanted parking but overall we haven't seen it being too much of a detriment of not having a car for every person or what not you don't typically see that anyways I know with like landmark even though we had sold that from talking with management there that we had you know we had kept in contact with even their parking structure wasn't fully you

136know utilized a hundred percent with with cars with the spaces that they had down there as well I know when you look at I know it's not a student housing but when you look at the one that it's on first first and the one of the yes as a service city apartments city yeah city you know city place I think the one that's the fourth yes down there the one public underneath it that they did with the DDA and Harbor City firms so yeah yeah City club from what we heard they don't need to use all the parking spaces that they have for their residents to so you are seeing the shift obviously again with the invent of uber and lyft and downtown and everything you're seeing that should that change so we haven't really

137seen it be obviously as we're fully leased up we haven't seen it as an issue so knowing that the I guess the 41 spots that you will have to enter an agreement with the DDA for which won't be provided there right yeah no space left in the structure will be for right there you don't believe that this is hindering your ability to rent out this no place no I think that's helpful to kind of put it into context about how much parking in these you know very close to campus area now now let me say though however that is different than the parking in general for people coming and visiting in the downtown area two totally different things but from a residential standpoint we're not seen as a detriment now as somebody who has been

138on the South unit very association and serves as a president totally different viewpoint of yes there needs to be more parking within the downtown area for people to come and visit I mean I've been down here and even on the Manor Street in coming down to a concert and thankfully I have a parking space at a building that we have because the parking structure structures full so totally different two totally different issues but yes it's that factor into and all of the retail space that you're doing there like the parking effectively does that come up like some of the retail tennis yes we've been able to work with them through through options but overall it hasn't been too much of a detriment with the people that are there coming into the building that we've seen

139so far Thanks Commissioner Ackerman Thank You mr. chair mr. Kowalski's matter process if we were to I guess I we were to vote this forward tonight and but with the expectation the petitioner work with staff on some kind of streetscape elevation changes is that something that would need to come back to Planning Commission before moving the council would you recommend that they do I could because it would be highly subjective at that point for us for staff to make that determination that this meets your you know what you guys are kind of going and we've heard a bunch of different i wouldn't necessarily feel more comfortable as staff going by and we're saying well this addresses I mean I've heard your conversations here right but I think ultimately when it gets the City Council they

140could they can make changes without it coming back to this board yeah that's there's no question about that they can make some of these changes or make modifications I mean we can step obviously we'll look at him make sure it still complies us of the streets standards and all that kind of stuff but it would be kind of more of a judgment call at that point whether or not we think this addresses for its own your column leave a calm water it's gonna be really difficult Kyle show you it's not an exact so you recommend that it come back to Planning Commission I'm not saying that I'm just saying if the design is is that important then I mean you might want to have a design flushed out before it moves forward as I'm saying

141it otherwise staff sure week they can certainly make those chain we can look at that and they can determination on that but I wouldn't want to speak for the whole of the Commission yeah certain thing was this addresses your changes certainly okay well thank you for that my cold it wouldn't be required to come back here okay unless you understood so I guess I'll defer to colleagues simply because either way Oh get to see it again so it really a defer to you all on and your judgement one other comment too because they just mentioned the DRB actually a comment about having that column there too so again that's the issue that with with that being a tenant space they're worried about it a big Starbucks logo as the first thing you see when you

142come out of the diag so they wanted us to put a permanent building feature there that you would focus on rather than the tenant space that's right there was at the DRV meeting and that was a decision point back and forth about putting something there removing something open up that space that's correct sure Starbucks would pay a lot of money for that well make it a Starbucks o'clock mr. hammerschmidt one more thing something you said in the discussion about the disbursement of the Fertile Hadi housing used made me think of this soundproofing like like sound mitigation in between the units I mean I don't know if people that are on the waiting list for affordable units would opt out of can they opt out probably right like I don't know that I want to live

143in a building full of students but that just made me think like what are you what kind of things are you doing in the building in terms of like not being able to hear loud music coming from the person next door or like well that's a that that comes to somewhat of a management but obviously between units you have sound bad insulation it goes between the walls in those aspects there so so far we haven't heard any issues between you and a unit with anything but if somebody's playing loud music it becomes a management issue so if we're like we actually were talking with a tenant who was below the unit that's being considered the party unit now that we're finding and she's like yeah you know we can hear them if they drop something

144or everything and there was a little bit they were getting a little bit loud but they told management and you know management was able to take handily so you can only do so much to sound dampen it but they're still going to be noise no matter what and that becomes now to a management that if there is a noise nuisance that is handled by management and that is usually a part of the lease documents as well but you're doing everything you can do in terms of stuff right yeah we and we look at that in general just because you don't want have a noisy building I mean those are a lessons some of the lessons that we learned from when we did landmark and some of the things that we've done differently - okay I've

145lived in places where I feel like I there's like hardboard in between the walls yeah no we put sound bat specifically sound bat between the between the mice in walls and the corridor walls and everything - so great thank you mr. Branca I'm not sure I feel comfortable suggesting postponing for it to come back to us though I I think I understand that it's difficult to take this feedback around design I think you've heard it over and over again though from different bodies and so and the next body you go to is the one that seems to be have the most interest in neighborhood character in the community right now so I think it's maybe worth your time to really think about how the center faces I thought the recommendations that councilmember Ackerman gave were

146at least very much in line with things that I thought made a lot of sense and character to draw upon and things you could say that you were drawing upon so on that question and those are very helpful comments that we can take back and implement itself my feeling is that we move forward on this this evening you know these this is a out of our purview at this point so I don't see a reason to stop any further discussion are we ready for a vote all right all those in favor please say aye aye opposed it's proved thank you next item on our agenda is audience participation this is the opportunity for anybody in the audience to address the Planning Commission you'll have up to three minutes to speak on any subject you would

147like if you'd like to address the Planning Commission please step forward state your name and address for the record Oh Ethel Potts again I thought I should have said when you were dealing with the Hideaway Lane that when it had been before Commission before when it was an issue the in the past the biggest single problem was the waterway there was great difficulty keeping it under having it under control dealing with it dealing with runoff everything that would relate to an open waterway needs to be looked at again is it in better shape in worse shape what are the plans thank you thank you I'll be real brief I represent Ken Bryant who's the owner of medicine man and Arbor which is a medical marijuana provisioning Center here in Ann Arbor state license maybe somebody

148can answer this question for me after the meeting because I'm just kind of getting involved with what the local codes and things so for the S II use I'm understanding that there's gonna be 28 issued for medical marijuana provisioning centers can currently has one of those but his being he's got problems with the landlord so he's being forced to relocate and he is next in the queue but I've gone through online and found a couple of them that you know they were applied for years ago and nothing has been done on these I'm wondering at what point do some of these you know either get denied or somebody else gets a chance you know come to the table what is the process on that you know how long do they get you know as a

149state licensing issue like they're waiting for the state licenses I'm not really sure that I would agree that that would be fair I mean Ken it's got a place licensed he's ready to go feel like you know something in in terms of getting these either approved or denied you know they shouldn't be taking years is all pretty much what I'm saying so if maybe somebody can shed some clarification on that for me I would very much appreciate it thank you and I'm sure mr. Kowalski will be happy to address that shortly after the meeting is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one moving on to Commission proposed business the only thing I would just like to discuss very briefly and I don't think this is an

150art in our purview is the lyft and uber situation that we have in the city and I have now seen many cities no longer allow pickups and drop-offs on major roadways like Main streets and some very busy roads so I would ask that Commissioner Ackerman maybe take this back to Council or whoever which ever Commission is responsible for this but that might be something to think about first the University here on Main Street some of our major roads so commercial breaks yeah just add to that I thought the comment around Amazon was actually also really useful that's I I can't imagine how many Amazon deliveries they get every single day and that has got to be it's something we need to plan for downtown I couldn't see it I know but actually on their floor

151plans they have Amazon drop boxes or if you could see it on their floor plans they have large areas set aside specifically for Amazon which is something we wouldn't have thought of obviously just those fans coming up in now that there's you know independent delivery vehicles too and there's been some question anyway there's a whole lot there the second thing that I feel like we spend just a ton of time on probably unnecessarily so repetitively is bike parking in the downtown ABC and I think that if there's a way for maybe Transportation Commission to get take a look at those requirements or some sort of interface between planning and transportation to take a look and see if those sort of our requirements are in line with our needs I think we just we talked about

152it quite a bit mr. Ackerman Thank You mr. chair I wanted to give a quick plug it to make sure that the ordinance revisions committee is focusing on and maybe pushing staff a little bit around short-term rental regulation this is something that has a big impact on neighborhoods on community building and on affordability we're seeing a lot of homes being purchased up and essentially turned into hotels which really runs counter to a lot of both the best practices and the philosophies and our conversations around the supply of housing for people who live here and so it's something that's on the work plan I just wanted to give a plug for that to keep the momentum up it's a council directive so I promised a colleague I would give that plug but it's from me as

153well commissioner Ackerman is it is this your last meeting do we know for sure I don't believe so so I will actually be out of town at the next meeting for work and I'm gonna send a reminder out to the group but I also don't know the mayor's calendar for nominating and that'd be a month long process we will see you next in the week after that and a week after that all right any further commission proposed business commissioner breaks since we don't know the timeline and you said you're definitely not gonna be here in the next meeting I just wanted to thank you for your service on the Commission it has been outstanding and I feel like I have learned something from you at every single meeting and I appreciate the thoroughness that you

154come to this meeting one reporting back to us about what's happening at City Council but also really thoughtfully looking at at the projects in front of us and despite concerns of some I think you've done it in a particularly unbiased way where you've tried to be very responsive to all of the questions and make sure that they got answered in a meeting so thank you so much for all the effort that you've put in here [Laughter] it would it would be a month-long process to to get someone else seated so I trust that I'll be back for another Planning Commission meeting so you can save your your sob story ahead of ourselves carried away all right do I have a motion to adjourn move that Commissioner hammerschmidt seconded by Commissioner of survey we are adjourned

155thank you you