001[snorts] All right, we're going to call this uh special meeting to order. October 29th, 2025. It is 5:30. We have four board members present. We have uh board member Schmidt, board member Zimmerman, board member Serenion, myself, Chris Kenyon, and that is 1.1. Let's go ahead and move to 1.2, which is pledge of allegiance. Um board member Schmidt, could you lead us, please? To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. That'll take us to 1.3. Approval of the special meeting agenda. I make a motion to approve the special meeting agenda form consistent with board policy 1-302 and temporarily suspend governing board policy with with this agenda may be inconsistent. >> Do I have a
002second? >> Second. >> We'll go ahead and take a vote. Board member Schmidt >> I. >> Member Zimmer >> I. >> Member Sheni >> I. >> And myself I'm also an I. Show that pass 4 Z. >> It's going to move us to item 2.1. Approval of the consent agenda. Do we have any comments? We can take a motion. I make a motion to approve the consent agenda. >> I have a second. >> Second. >> We'll go ahead and take a vote. Bar member Schmidt >> I. >> Member Zimmerman >> I. >> Member Senion >> I. >> Myself Chris Kennon. That's also an I. So that show that pass consent agenda passes 4. So that'll take us to general business. So item 3.1 discussion possible action for governing board to receive legal advice on interim
003superintendent process. Um we have Miss Susan Seagull, our legal representative here on uh on Zoom, I think. >> Yes, you do. I don't I think you do you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, I'll go ahead and turn it over to you. >> Well, good evening board members. Um, there really is a minimum amount of legal advice I can give you. I can give you some practical advice, but I will uh stick to the legal advice. Uh, it's up to you. You're the masters of the ship. You can decide to use and pardon me, I have my son's dog here and I you can you can use the um an outside firm. You can use a uh conduct an internal search. I have only had one school district that's done an internal search
004and that was a school district with a an HR director who had the time to do it who was who stop who really rocked it as an HR director. I don't know from what I know of your district that you have the bandwidth to do that right now. Plus, um, you're asking you, I mean, your your staff is stretched thin and you're asking staff to participate in a search for who could be their supervisor in the future. I really suggest that I'm not making a pitch for any search firm, but I really suggest you not do it internally. you aren't uh equipped to do that p with with respect to personnel and it can get thorny. Um for example um say you say okay we're going to have Dr. Mahorn do this search or we're
005going to have XYZ employee do this search. You know, they have to go into Google. They have to research background. They have to find out all of the good, the bad, ugly about the candidates. Uh I don't think you want to put it on any of your existing personnel. So maybe it's legal advice, maybe it's practical experience of all my years of doing this. I uh suggest you not put this additional burden on your personnel. That's my only pitch for that. Some of it may be legal, some of it may not. Do you have any questions of me? >> Does any board member have any questions for Miss Single? >> I do. Go ahead. >> Um, uh, Miss Seagull, this is, um, Miss Zimmerman, just so you know. >> Yeah, I can see you there.
006>> Oh, okay. You can see us. Um, yeah, I had several questions. Um, I, you know, one of my questions was kind of already what you addressed was having our staff essentially look for their next boss. And I felt that that would create a conflict of interest. Um, my also concern would be for the board or the board president to do it as I believe that would also be a conflict them interacting with the candidate ahead of time. Would you agree that that would also be a conflict? >> Uh, I don't think it's a conflict of interest. There's no financial involved under title 38. But I do think it's a bad idea in capital letters with an exclamation point. >> Okay, I I'll take that. Thank you. Um, >> the point is, here's the deal.
007I mean, the board president has to vote along with the rest of the board. The board president is nothing more than a board member. >> And I think it's a bad idea for the board president to make to be involved in the search because that's a predetermined outcome and I think you need to have some space between the managers of the company which is you and the company is the school district. Sorry to use corporate examples but I think it's a bad idea. >> Okay. Um so uh I you know my I guess my next question uh in your experience you know would you suggest that we pursue an interim for such a short amount of time considering the cost you know because essentially you've said you know it's probably not a good idea for
008our staff to do it. certainly not a good idea for the board to do it ourselves. You know, how do we achieve that? And then kind of as a followup, are there companies like ASBA that prevet candidates um that are already prevetted essentially that we could choose to interview because um in in December of 2017, that's what this district did. um you know they didn't do a search for an interimm they basically appointed somebody that from a list that ASBA gave them. >> All right I'll try to take both those questions in order. >> Okay. >> It's October. The season for hiring a new superintendent really becomes open in midspring. uh people know who are retiring know that they're retiring and what they're willing to do. Um I think it's a little early to jump
009into that right now. You guys have been into a lot of rough spots. It's been a tough year for the board and for the district and I I don't know from my experience this is the right time to do it. There are companies that prevet um and there are some companies nationwide that have inter uh have retired superintendent that are willing to move out to Arizona, preferably not in the summer, but are willing to move out to Arizona to um to help you out. Uh I don't know whether any of those companies have given you an any indication of success, but I think right now you've got to get stability in your district and um right now it may be too soon to be going out. I would ask Paul Ty from ASA if it's
010the right timing. I mean, there's a lot of very good retired superintendents who are willing to give you their expertise without looking forward to becoming a permanent soup. And there's others that want to become a permanent soup and want to do the others. I just that question about when the market is ripe is something for Paul Ty from ASA. >> Okay. I was just wondering if as if you knew if ASBA had ones that are prevetted since we we just paid our dues which was $10,000. So I was just >> Yeah. or to be a member. >> I don't I don't know that answer. Pardon my son's dog, but I don't know the answer for that. Um that was something that would be something to call Ellen White at ASBA and find out if they
011have some people that are prevetted. Ellen is the new executive director of ASBA, but she's been with ASBA for some years. I would call her and find out. Um, you know, the superintendent market is ever evolving and there's a lot of superintendent that just decide they're going to retire, but then they find out they have a lot of time on their hands and are willing to help you out. So, I would call them, too. >> Okay. I'm just, you know, uh, concerned about the financial aspect. You know, I I would agree that we probably need to use someone that I'm not comfortable putting it on staff and I'm not comfortable the board doing it. Um, which inevitably is going to cost money, right? Um, and so, you know, that I was just trying to look
012for creative different options for the for just the small time window that we're in here. >> Mrs. Zimmerman, I would suggest that you listen to ASA. You can call AS Arizona School Boards Association, find out from them, but it might take a little bit more. You're on the right track. It might take a little bit more time than just appointing somebody overnight. >> Oh, I agree. I I don't necessarily I just want to be clear for the record that I'm not suggesting that we appoint someone overnight without us interviewing them. mean that. >> Oh, okay. Um I Yeah, I just want to be clear for the record, but just somebody that has prevetted to try to speed that process up, I guess, is what I was thinking. >> There are a few uh former superintendents
013that are out there that have filled in and they are really good. I mean, they come in and they know their expertise, but they have no desire to be permanently on any any list to become a superintendent again. >> Okay, those are all the questions I have at the moment. >> Okay, any other board members? All right, Miss Seagull, I I do have a question. So legally if the board if somebody approaches the board um we could legally vote just to hire somebody. Could we? >> Of course you can. If somebody comes out and says I'm your man or I'm your woman, uh you don't have any requirement to go through a search or anything else. >> Okay. My concern is um and I'm not saying we're going to do that, but my concern is
014our as you said, our district is in a kind of a hard spot right now where we don't have a current superintendent. We don't have a current basically CFO. We don't have, you know, a couple of these high level positions. Um, and I think that getting some of these filled sooner rather than later would help alleviate some of the stress that's going on um, right now. >> Yes. >> So, >> yes, of course, if somebody comes forward, your board can consider them. I mean, that has happened in other districts where some person who's retired or um just wants a change of venue comes forward and you can consider them. You don't have to go through a search. >> Mr. Kenyon. >> Yes. M. >> Could I ask a follow-up question? >> Yes. >> Okay. So,
015[clears throat] um, so are you saying that the board could appoint a person that approached one single board member? We don't have >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> No, I'm not. I'm sorry. I thought you were done. I think if if a single board member has somebody that's approach them, they have to bring it to the board. The board has to vet that. >> Okay. Um and so uh you know when ASA has presented previously and when we did the interim search they talked about the importance of like equal opportunity laws and making sure that you know every person that you know that it's posted. So can we hire someone without posting the position? >> Yes. if they come forward, if you if somebody out of the blue drops into Arizona and says, "I think I
016can help out Liberty Elementary." Then you can consider them. I mean, there is no requirement as long as you're not discriminating. um you know, as long as you're you're listening to everybody that but if somebody comes ac across um the board can say this person has the credentials, we're going to appoint them. >> Okay. And so when you say that we're not discriminating, how does anybody else know about the job? >> They don't. I mean, uh, if if somebody comes forward, I mean, I would prefer that you advertise the job, but if somebody comes forward and says, "I'm your person," you can consider their credentials and say that they're your person. I don't think you need to have you're mandated by law to have a search. >> Okay. Would you consider it best practice to
017do that? Yes, I would to take >> I would rather you have a best practice where you open it up to anybody and you and you hear everybody you have. >> Okay, that's what I mean is I I if somebody approached somebody I was asking if you and we just appointed them and didn't post it that you wouldn't consider that best practice, right? Yeah, I would consider No, my person is put it out and see who comes forward and best practice would be consider all persons. But, you know, we've had situations in other districts where they're without a superintendent and somebody all of a sudden comes out of the woodwork and says, "I'm willing to be your superintendent for six months to help you do that." You don't have to necessarily advertise for that. >>
018Yeah. I you I uh I hear that you say that that has occurred to me that to me that sounds concerning personally but uh that will be my that's my personal opinion and that and it obviously will be the will of the board. Yeah, but I would not look ARS15502503 says only you, pardon my dog, my son's dog, but says only you can hire employees. Only you, the board. And so whatever comes forward, you have to consider their pardon me have to consider their qualification. Yeah, I'm just trying >> come out clear without the dogs barking. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to >> Hold on. Let me close the door. Did he Did he come? >> Mr. Match, she answered your question. The point is the best practice would be to advertise and get everybody
019forward. But if somebody comes forward that just rocks you on their credentials and everything, still the board is the only one that can consider that and the board is the only one they can hire. >> Sure. So if a person were to reach out to one board member, is the expectation that that board member, you know, send that email to the board secretary for that to be disseminated? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for Miss Eagle? All right. Thank you, Miss Seagull. You're welcome to stay on if you would like. Our next uh agenda item is 3.2. This is the ASA or Arizona school administration administrator's presentation relating to the uh permanent superintendent search process. Um >> okay, I'm going to sign off right now. Is that okay? >> All right. Yes.
020Thank you. >> You want me again? I'll be I'll be here at home. >> Okay. Thank you, Miss Eagle. >> Without the dog barking. Sorry. >> All right. Um we have I believe Dr. Nicholas Clement and um and Paul Ty with the ASA. >> Good evening. >> Not quite. >> I see a green light. There we go. >> Now it's on. >> Now we're good. Well, good evening, Mr. President, members of the board, staff, and guests. It's a pleasure to be back here again. I thought uh when I retired as a superintendent I wouldn't be at board meetings. Now I've been twice in a month. So it's great to be here and um happy to be here on behalf of ASA. As you might know, I'm I'm the executive director. I did uh bring an
021esteemed guest and uh introduce him in a minute. So last time I talked a little bit about a typical search process to try to help you with your decision- making on what direction you would go for superintendent. Um I'll give a little different slant on um some of the same information I provided before. So you know this was some of the same uh stuff that I shared with you before about what I think are best practices and what you would want to look for in a search firm. Just you know the question here at the top why ASA and you know just to know what our role is and and how we got into the search business. Our primary role is to do a lot of professional development, mentoring, support, awards, recognition, um, leadership development,
022aspiring leader programs. That's really what we do. However, a few years ago, we were asked, and I I should say also district support services, executive coaching, strategic planning. We do customized stuff. So, long story short, we were asked to help a district and another district, another district with a superintendent search. I said, 'Well, certainly we can do that, but by no means is that our primary goal or mission. Our our mission is to support and develop excellence in educational leadership. However, we have the expertise and have had very successful searches. I gave you a list of ones in one of the attachments over the last three years. But just know that we're not in it for profit. We're not like trying to make money on it. It's a service. So, we're a nonprofit 501c3 been
023around since 1971. And um you know, our our objective is to help districts so we can help kids. So, we help leaders, we'll help boards, we'll help whoever asks for help. So, I think it's important just to know why we're doing this is not that we said we're going to do searches. It was if we were asked and if we can help, we help. And so, if we can help Liberty, we're more than happy to do so. and um you know I've helped you with other things in the past and we'd be happy to to help with a permanent superintendent search process and um you know just know that I know cost M was talking about you know cost and things like that we're very mindful of that we price it at cost we don't
024you there's no markup and so that's where selfishly I could say you know I really don't want to do searches because I do a lot of work behind the scenes but it's not a revenue stream for ASA but it's a service we provide um and I should note too, we do outreach nationally and you know even in light of some of the conversation with Miss Seagal and I known her a long time highly regard her as an attorney um you know we do bring in a lot of national candidates as you've seen even with a very short posting we can get um national outreach but you know there's always uh times when that doesn't work and we really know our people in Arizona because they've been members we've grown them. We we really know them.
025And when Miss Seagal was talking about um interims, you know, we know the people she's talking about. Um you know, this is something similar I shared to you last time as well. You know, the outcome goal and when we're involved in a search, we really value, you know, a transparent process, but I have to note it's not our process. We recommend this is a a standard process, but we tailor it to what the board wants. It's your and I say you know more than just the board you represent the community a lot of the communities here and the staff it's it's for your community and so we would want it to be very transparent but also very collaborative and get stakeholders involved as as much as possible and um you know that's something we value
026and would certainly try to impress upon you throughout the process as as a goal. Um, and ultimately, you know, we want what you want, the best leader for your district, and then we also offer the support afterwards to help him or her be successful after they get the position. So, um, Dr. Clement is he's done a lot of searches and I don't want to age him, but he is a highly successful superintendent. He's a professor at Northern Arizona University and, you know, I'm proud to to work with him and and to introduce him to you this evening. So, Dr. Dr. Nick Clement will talk a little bit more about the search and um draw upon the experiences of the many searches he's done both for ASA and and previously um directly with districts and also
027with ASBA that's a partner of ours as well. So thanks Paul. Um I'm honored and humbled to be here uh members of the board community. I I grew up in a a very small town in Michigan and my goal in life was to be invited to my friend's home. Uh one both myself and my mom got a break and I got to ride a different bus and because of distance I always got to stay overnight. So to be invited to your home is a is an honor because it's your home. As Paul said, this is your search. uh we're here if we get selected to consult to recommend but it's it's your search. Um so let me do a I've done so I retired as a superintendent in Tucson at Floyd Wells at uh 11
028years ago. Uh, and uh, I wasn't ready. Well, you know, when the dog hides the leash, you you know, you've got to go out and find some other uh some other things to do. And and you know, I love my wife, but she said, "You got to find something to do because you're driving you're driving me crazy." Uh so about nine years ago uh one of the things that uh I did I started doing searches and I've done 25 give or take searches uh since then uh both for ASBA and ASA and I've done one of the largest districts uh in the state uh Tucson Unified and uh couple years ago I did one of the smallest Sentinel um Arizona. Uh every search is unique, every search is personalized to the needs of the community.
029So, let me give you just a little bit of an overview. Um I developed this because uh it really is big kind of big picture, but it's it gives you that timeline. Um there are six phases to a search. Uh the first is the developing the profile and the timeline and we do that collaboratively with uh the board and a point person a contact person in your district. Um, and then phase two is where we post it. And we also, if the board chooses to do a community survey and also based on some of your needs, we could also do uh focus groups with your faculty, staff, community. I did that with Tucson Unified. It was very successful to gather data. You you you you've got to have input um as far as the profile
030and um what are the strengths that folks are looking for in that next leader. uh phase three also during this phase two my job as uh the facilitator is also to do my due diligence that's where I do uh I do internet searches I find if there's information that is collaborated and is important data information for the bored to know. I find that to the the best of my ability. Um, in our searches, the board, we don't do a pre-screening, but we do that due diligence and bring that information to the board so they can consider that information along with the application. So applications that meet the deadline and meet the minimum requirements set by the board, we bring those so you see them all, but you also see my due diligence because what I
031do is if I find something and it's relevant, I print it. And during the screening process, the board sees all that information. Okay. Um then in phase three, uh the board does that in executive session. And then in phase four, the candidates are interviewed by the board. So you go from an application, an applicant to a candidate. And then in phase five, the board identifies finalists. and we set all this up with with the board and the community. Um, we recommend another interview. We also recommend some type of community forum which involves questions being submitted and and I if I'm the consultant, I facilitate that. um in the board we recommend attend it but attend it as an event. So it's not a a a formal board meeting and and one of the things that
032uh I will do for you is and I'm not your legal counsel. Um but what I do do is make recommendations as far as open meeting law. I was a superintendent for nine years. Um, so, uh, and I do board training and things like that. So, my job is to help you make sure that we're following the law as far as open meeting and that sort of thing. And again, it's recommendations. Um, and I never I stay in my lane as far as not being your legal counsel. Uh and then in phase six you identify well phase five you identify a finalist if you so desire to enter into negotiations with and then we step out of the picture and you work with your legal counsel to develop the contract. Okay. Um I I developed
033this about five years ago because boards and community kind of said, "Okay, what decisions are are recommended in exec session and which decisions are in open session?" So I developed this rubric or um and basically I'm not going to go through the whole thing but this gives you the big picture as to you know when we c talk about transparent uh there are some things that you want to you want the best qualified pool. Okay. So the application process is confidential because you don't want something you don't want the possibility of the applicant's name to go out which would deter that person from applying. Okay. So that application process is confidential and if ASA u if you choose ASA to do this um we do all of that. The application is online but it goes
034to um our website and then what happens is and I can then uh start doing due diligence in real time. So as applicants apply, I can start doing my due diligence. And then when you do the when we do the screening, we bring a hard copy of that completed application to the board. In fact, we bring um if there are 10 applicants, we bring 10 times five so that you each have your packet to um to review. Um so here's an idea of what's in exact session and what is in open session. Okay. So, I'm not going to go through all of these, but um it this is a team approach. Uh and again, uh I won't if if I'm your search consultant, uh I will go through your normal protocol for communication to the
035board. Okay, let's say there's a question during the process. Um, you do uh you talk to your point person and then the point person would communicate with me. So, we we follow your normal protocols to avoid violation of open meeting law and that sort of thing. Okay. But you're uh during this process, I'm yours 247. Okay. as uh questions come in, I will get uh I will get the answer or I'll say it'll take me a couple days to get the answer or you know um that that's really important that we form that that smooth communication between the board and the search consultant. Okay, I think I went most uh here's some um here's some recommendations based on my previous experience um doing searches. Um, and it it I apologize if it sounds like we're
036being directive, but they're just they're recommendations. Um, one is once that search starts, officially starts, um, what we're recommending is that there be a moratorum on communication with the media from individual board members that I become your spokesperson for the search. Just the search not not your communications not I'm not trying to take over your communication person's position or anything but that um that keeps us all on the same page. Okay. Uh, another recommendation is that once the search starts officially that the board members not contact potential applicants. And the reason for that is you don't want someone thinking they have an edge and then you get a uh let's say a lawsuit later on that says oh this candidate I didn't get selected but that candidate um talked to a board member and in
037fact the application says specifically you are not to contact a board member. Same thing goes two ways. We're asking that you not contact potential applicants during the search process. So, um, probably way more information than you you wanted or needed, but are there any questions about my part of this presentation? >> Any questions? Yeah, board members. >> I think one question a lot of us probably actually have is when do you suggest like timeline starting? Okay, >> so um, that's a great question. And I had started searches in November uh that were successful. I have started searches in January, in February. Um, I used to think that there might be a sweet spot, but um there there is a for example uh not the sweet spot is March and April >> as in too late
038>> because folks uh superintendents have signed their contracts. um they've already made their commitments and to uh so you want to get it between now and February would be my my recommendation. >> Yeah, please. >> Are are you saying now through February as in like phase one or it needs to be posted now in between February? So um I would say um to start if you start the process it it takes uh the next if you choose ASA uh I would come to a meeting and we would have done some uh work with your your district to develop a draft of the posting. Um, so let's say that's in November and we we get the posting done in Decemberish. Uh, you want my recommendation is uh that you post for a month. that provides opportunity
039for the um applicant to get all their transcripts and and all that together um and then complete the process by end of February, beginning of March. Okay. >> Thank you, sir. So, Mr. President, members of the board, if I may also just chime in a little bit, and this is going to be odd. It's the first time I think I've ever disagreed with Susan Siguel, and I have a great deal of respect for her. I'll probably never disagree with her again, but the traditional timelines have changed a little bit. And I think I told you a little bit about this last time, just talking about um the general timelines for searches. What I'm seeing, you know, through the throughout the state is the timeline is backing up further and further. So, for example, tomorrow Puma
040Unifi is screening their applicants. Um, Hullbrook just engaged. Uh, Cave Creek is in the process selecting their search firm. Um, somebody else Washington is engaging with a search firm. They're, you know, starting that process. So, a lot of districts right now are already starting to engage. Um, Gilbert and Chandler are both post live active postings. So what we're seeing is the process is moving back because as as Dr. Clement said, you know, that that timeline, you know, the the the primary pool is going to be earlier and people that have either committed to their boards say, "Yeah, I'll be back next year or, you know, we've negotiated a new contract that's done usually March by April, the latest." And so, you know, if you start working backwards, the more time you have, the better the
041process could be. We can change it. We can accelerate it. We can do whatever you want us to do. However, our recommendation is, you know, don't rush it. Do it well. And you can have much better stakeholder engagement if time's on your side. And the holidays get kind of in the way, too. So, you have to add when you start looking at, you know, the second half of December, kind of have to add a week in there just for process. >> Yeah. Mr. with my experience and and what I've heard and been through a couple of these processes. I think I think my my goal, no matter what we end up who who we end up going with or whatnot, is to get this posted prior to the fall break. Um my understanding is there's
042a lot of >> I hope you mean winter break. >> Winter break, excuse me. Thank you. >> That's the winter break. Um but even even prior to Thanksgiving, um you know that that's when what I've heard and what I've seen is a lot of superintendents or potential candidates are looking right starting about Thanksgiving going all the way through the holidays and then you know that's when they have time with their family. They're having these discussions of of all this stuff. It's a it's a much bigger pool than like you said if we wait. There's a number of I think you mentioned about six seven districts in our valley who are already got this process going and some of them already screening. Um so looking at that respect we're a little bit behind the ball probably
043of starting. um doesn't necessarily mean we wouldn't, you know, we're not going to try to fasttrack the end date, but getting the posting out there, letting people know that this is that Liberty is looking and and sometimes what we will do is say coming soon, so we get kind of the word out and then still have time to make sure the profile matches what you want it to look like. And that also involves some of your staff, too, providing the right information, the pictures to make it look nice. And and so, you know, they're the the profile which will be part of the application. You know that takes some time too to do to do it well. >> Also, each superintendent's contract is written differently, but um some superintendent's contracts have a certain date that
044they have to notify their district or there's um some penalties and such. So, um, that's another reason that, you know, that sweet spot is is where it's at. >> Mr. Kenyon. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Okay. Um, I had a couple questions. Um, and um, if I'm going to be honest, it's going to um, kind of fall on things that happened last time during the interim search that, you know, um, had I personally had some concerns with. So, um, would the board have full control? Cuz I I often hear that, you know, it's the board's process. We'll tailor it to whatever you want, but, um, like the board didn't have full control over the questions. We kind of submitted questions and themes and then the consultant chose the questions. So, would you allow the board
045to fully choose the questions that are asked of the candidates? So u my approach to that my process is um for the board to identify in open session uh themes. Okay. Then uh I develop some those questions based on the themes and uh the feedback from our focus groups and and such like that. Then what I do is I develop those questions and then send them to your point person to disseminate to the board and then provide edits, feedback um to me and then I consider the those edits and tweak the questions. And then on the interview day, um I recommend you start the interview um exec session a half hour before you start your interviews. And during that time then you uh get to see the edited questions and provide feedback. >> Okay. So
046the board would have and in the end the board would have full control of the questions. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um that did not occur previously. Um there was also some concern about um can uh actually let me back up. So let's talk about the the due diligence and the research um you know are you is that 100% done like given to the board no matter what you find? >> Yes. If if I get collaboration, if I find two sources, >> okay, >> if I find a source, then I want it to be um I don't want it to be false information. >> Sure. Of course. Um and then th that information good, bad or ugly, um is provided to the board prior to the screening process in exec session. >> Okay. Um do you
047conduct reference checks? >> So uh normally what I do is I do reference checks on your candidates. So um but there have been circumstances where I have done some some reference checking on validating verifying the application. >> Okay. We we also do for your finalist uh we do a thirdparty total background check where there's verification of degree there is if there's any criminal misdemeanors even pop up it it's a u what's the company universal um we do that with your your finalist >> okay do you contact their current employer. >> Yes. Uh well, the third party does. Uh I also will do reference checks for your candidates which often times is the former employer. Okay. Um the reason now in the application if they check that they um were not to contact their references or
048their former employer, we don't. But that becomes uh a bit of a red flag that you need to consider. >> Yeah. I mean I So do you provide those reference checks to the board >> or the uh candidates? Yes. >> Okay. And so you're providing them like do you have a form that you use and who you talk to and that you verified their employment that they're not on leave, paid administrative leave, things like that. Yeah, there is a part of the application that deals with the whether they're on leave or assigned to home. Have you ever um what's the language? Have you ever uh >> Yeah. Have you ever been terminated, placed on leave? Um that's a and we have a check mark that all the answers are truthful. Uh, I have had searches
049where there was fuzziness and I actually went to board minutes to determine whether that person had been put on leave or not. Um, and I provide that um at that screening. So the the idea is for you to have as much information um prior to the screening. Yeah. I guess you know my concern is that we're relying on the candidate to tell us if they're on administrative leave and if we are not verifying if they say I don't want you to contact my employer and we don't verify their employment. >> Yeah. So I provide that information to you. Um, and >> that so if you if they say you don't if they say I apologize if they say you they don't want you to contact their employer, you do not verify their employment currently. >>
050We I follow the application if they check that. Um, it's rare. Um, but I also provide the board a a spreadsheet uh prior to the screening of your minimum requirements. Um, and then if there is something that I found in my due diligence, I will indicate that on the spreadsheet and then have a file folder with a printed copy of that article. Let's say they had an article in a newspaper um that indicated something that the person had done that is relevant to the screening. um I verify it and then provide it to you because I I think what you're getting at and it's it's very true the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So during this screening in order to meet your goal you're trying to predict that leadership behavior. And it's
051not a perfect science, but my experience is that the more due diligence I do, the more information that the board has, the better they can make their decision on who goes on to candidacy and then who goes on to being the finalist. >> Okay. Um I also had a question about the whole board receiving information from the consultant. So um based on a FOYA that was obtained from the previous search, the consultant often only communicated with the board president and that information was not disseminated to the rest of the board. And then when I sent the consultant an email, he said he needed to send everything to the whole board, which I agree with. But my concern was is that when the president because the president would come in and say, "Oh, we have 13
052applicants or we have such and such and and the whole we had never heard anything like that." So when you say that you're going to communicate with the board, do you mean the whole board? >> So I do. >> Okay. Um but I follow your protocol. For example, if it's the admin assistant to the board that is my designated point person and however you have that chain of communication, I follow it. So what my preference is is How does the board get regular information? How do they get the agenda? How do they um and follow that protocol so that I communicate to that point person and then that point person follows your district protocol in providing it out to um and I do that for exactly the reason you just talked about um one, you
053can't violate open meeting law with your communication, >> right? >> Um, and you always have to be, you know, fair and make sure everyone's getting the same information. Uh, so that, you know, you you you all have the same power, >> right? you have your your vote and so I uh work really hard at following your district protocols. >> Okay. Um do you guys um provide um kind of any guarantees for the tenure of the superintendent like at least a year or anything in regards to that? >> I'll let Paul I guess he's gonna pass the mic on the hard question. >> [laughter] >> We have not thus far and and part of the reason is that we price it at cost. So if you go with a a national firm that's forprofit, they you
054know have a certain level of markup in the process. And so part of that is like insurance. So if they have a few that they have to redo as sort of a warranty, it's built in. So we haven't done that thus far. But you know I also and I think that's the the last slide on here too is just about you know I reminded you about this last time about you know procurement threshold and if you're getting three quotes you know you can go over 10,000 um you know we we work to really keep the cost down and you know if you wanted to if that was something that was really important to the board number one we could try to calculate what that sort of insurance would look like if you wanted to say
055well a guarantee that then we'd have to look at our cost structure a little differently. Okay. Thus far, we have not. >> Um and and that's with the 20some searches that ASA has facilitated. Um but you know, we we could consider it if that was really important to the board. And and also just because we worked with you before and I sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. you know, the the process for an interim was and is different and in particular the process that we were asked to provide last time was very accelerated like to post a position for two weeks was very accelerated and I know Miguel talked about there's sometimes where you get a candidate that and a lot of that's through word of mouth so like I know all the
056superintendents who recently retired I know the market and you know I would start making calls and say hey you know what are you and it's too hot to golf, right? That was July, right? So, but you know, we um you know, we want to make it successful for you. Whether you use us or not, you know, we're here to help. So, even if we're not facilitating the search, we're going to support you and your candidate and your finalist and and your new superintendent and and so we're not offended if you don't pick us either is what I'm saying. But just know that, you know, we have the same goal for you, which is just to get the best superintendent possible. And you know, I think we would stay under your threshold um you know, the
057the 10,000 threshold, but you know, if you're getting multiple quotes, that won't be a problem for procurement for you. Um and then another question I had is um you know on the sheet that you had about the different steps um and whether they're in executive session or u public session you know the final interviews are you have listed in executive session but um for the last two searches um those those interviews were held in the public for the finalists. So would your firm allow that to occur if the board decided they wanted to go that way? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um >> and not to you know I I take every search very personally. Um and the idea of of that >> [clears throat] >> um getting a selection that is the
058right fit and and um I do keep keep track in my own mind the 25 I've done um two did not work out to where I um my satisfaction uh there were variables that you know But um I'm over it. I'm not. Uh but it it's just I I do I take it very personally. Um and want to make sure that um actually uh this isn't my first visit to Liberty. Um about 10 years ago I did a a initiative on customer service. um did keynote and a number of other things and then some years ago I facilitated the strategic plan um so um I've had a little bit of a connection you know the district obviously has changed and such but um again I take things really personally so >> thank you >> any
059other board members has questions All right. I have just a couple myself. Some of them were already asked. Um the uh Miss Zimmerman mentioned, you know, about the pre uh reference checks and and backgrounds and things like that. speaking with other districts. I know um ASA has been the ones who have facilitated selecting, you know, finding candidates and then of course the boards are doing the selecting. But over the last couple months, it seems like there's been a number of districts here in the valley that got a candidate. They were selected. Um, and they've all told me it's per the information we got from the ASA when we sat down and went through the candidates seemed like this one was the best fit and then within two, three, four months it didn't work out. And
060I'm not picking on any person um, but this they all had this ASA in common. So I I thank you for coming and presenting. Um, but I do want to ask kind of following up with board member Zimmerman's comments, how I mean, you've already talked about kind of the the process, but how do we know that what we're going to get for the candidates when we go through their files, we're going to have a good idea of who that person is. Now, granted, our last one was very, very fast. I only had one hour to sit down with the candidates, which isn't enough enough time to get to know somebody and all that stuff. So, obviously, a permanent superintendent search would be drawn out a little bit longer, but that's just one of the things
061that I know has come up a number of times to me recently was the placement the um the candidates brought forth didn't seem to match like we said we want and you've said you want, right? we want the best fit. Um, and so what kind what what kind of guarantee I guess guarantee is not the right word, but how would you >> address that? >> So, uh, we try to build in and again uh the [clears throat] design is um subject to what the board wants. Um, for example, that uh the final interview um could be a um summary of their 90-day plan. Um what what I try to do in my recommendations is mirror uh the skill, knowledge, attitudes um that you want with this. You're doing an assessment. you're you're trying to predict
062um the success of this person and um there there is no 100% guarantee but we can increase those and probably not the right term but increase the odds by building in focus groups and um having uh the interview mirror what the actual position is looking at past success um as as a leader. U so it's it's the most one of the most important decisions you're going to make. And I take that very seriously and try to build the search process so that you can be successful and in turn it's it's all about your students because we know leadership matters. And so I I don't know if I answered your question, but um you know, one of my rules when I was superintendent is don't make stuff up. You know, no surprises. Don't make stuff up.
063Be honest. And that is how I work as a search consultant. I guess the the part two and and sorry because that one was a little bit hard for you. Um not for you, that's just a hard general find the right fit is is difficult. Part of that though is the background is making sure that it's very very thorough. There's no surprises a month later after you've already hired them. And so um and in a number of these cases that's kind of what came to light. So I guess what can the ASA do to mitigate that? >> So you you just uh outlined it. It's doing as much due diligence. I if I look at my first search which was successful um versus my search my last search which was successful. I did a lot
064more due diligence on my last search and it partly is it's influenced by what's going on. Um, it's doing going into board minutes. That wasn't the I didn't do that my first search. I didn't um go, "All right, this person's applying. This person's from out of state." Um what what it and the ear I start my due diligence the minute the application I get a notice that the application has come in. Uh might be a month before it closes but I get a copy of that and I start doing my due diligence. So, um, that's one of the things that has changed in my search responsibilities is a a deeper dig, a more extensive dig um, prior to the screening. Thank you. Um, have another question for you. If we can go back on the
065slides back to the step. It's the second. Yeah, that one right there. So, phase five. I've always questioned this because it kind of puts boards in a bad spot when we say interview com uh uh interviews, community uh community forum finalists, select the finalist, enter into negotiations. I don't for the life of me know why this has been the standard that you select your finalist and then you start negotiations instead of maybe you have you whittle it down from six finalists down to two or three and then you negotiate with all three of them and you figure out who's along with the candidate which one would actually be the best in negotiations as well because once you've selected that person it's really hard to negotiate. They're like, "Yeah, you've selected me. You got" and I
066don't know who who that would go to. I I would defer that to your attorney. Um because there are both advantages and some disadvantages, but it's more of a unless Paul wants to to take it. Um I'm trying to stay in my lane. Yeah, I that's a great question and you know that is the typical protocol that legal counsel would probably advise you on. They certainly did when I've you know interacted with other attorneys. Um you know and part of you know one of I'm answering a different question in this too like talk to people like if you want to know like what assurances do you have like for example the board members three of them are still on the board of Saddle Mountain. When I left Saddle Mountain Dr. Clement facilitated the search and
067I think the board was very happy, the community was very happy with the process. I think that will help give you peace of mind. You know, is the superintendent there a good fit with the community and a good match? Well, he's still there and and doing very well by everything I've seen. There are um you know, I'm aware of one search that we facilitated where there's a problem right now. And I can't, you know, give a lot of comments on a specific situation, especially one that's still, you know, attorneys are involved, whatever is happening. Um, but there are sometimes, and this is rare, that even we discover things after the fact that we're not honest disclosures. And so, you know, that's uh something we hope to prevent. And you know the other 19 on that
068list are still in the positions and and thriving um you know to the I think directionally a little bit to the north like Aenddale Elementary District you know same thing. Talk to board members there in the community see if they thought our process last year for them was good. Saddle Mountain was four years ago. Um but Aenddale this last year I mean so really I mean it sounds like you've talked to other board members. I encourage you, you know, do so when there are out ofstate finalists. And this is really for a full search. You know, interim is a is an odd animal because every one of those is a little different. But with a full search, you know, I have a counterpart for an association in every other state. And the first thing I
069do is say, "Hey, what do you know about soand so here or she's applied to a district here in Arizona?" And so oftentimes, you know, this is true for any position. When people put references down things, they're not going to put bad references. So, you know, it's it's assumed you're going to contact them, right? But you contact other people to try to get as much intel and like, you know, Nick's practice of, you know, I heard it once, I want to hear it twice to to start to say, okay, this there's some truth to this, and that's something I want to relay to the board. And our job is to get that information, do the diligence, and share the important information with the board, the whole board, you know, and make sure that the there's
070transparency. even if that's an executive session, there's a level of transparency within the board and and you it's it's a level of transparency that we we really value. >> Yeah. I guess I guess my point with that question is um a couple of board members went to a training from the county uh a little more than a week ago and that was one of the points in there um at that training was when we get into negotiations looking for a superintendent it's it's common practice to just go with you know negotiations with that finalist but the question was and there was attorneys there was superintendents there was board members and trainers and a lot of people. The question was why why is that common practice? Because that kind of hinders the negotiating process with a
071with a district or board and the candidate. >> I thank you for bringing that question up because one of the things I wanted to say but um didn't was there are I know of many times where the first candidate who's the fi the finalist that they're going to enter negotiations with negotiations fail. they don't they something didn't go right and they didn't agree to terms and so they go to the next finalist. So there are sometimes every situation is unique. Let's say there's three finalists and the board says well we want this one but if that doesn't work we would like number two or they say you know it's either that one or we're going to reopen or do something different. But I've seen many situations and it's not publicized, but I'm aware of many
072situations where the first candidate is not the one who is hired because as you say, there are times when hm this maybe this doesn't work. Now we're really getting to know each other and so sometimes it's not a good fit. But that's that happens. We just don't really always hear about it. So I guess with if if legal was to give us the go-ahad, would the ASA facilitate that with what what I'm saying is if we have two or three finalists, we could negotiate with each one of those at the same time if legal gives us the blessing. >> As Dr. Clement said, at that point, we kind of step back. That's really with your legal counsel and the finalists, right? Um you know, we're really a third party to that. >> We're here to
073to support you. We if you engage us, we work for you. You know, we don't work for the candidate. And you know, we don't work for the attorney, but certainly we work with these attorneys, same attorneys that you know, represent most of the districts. We work with them all the time and know them well and and certainly take direction from them, but ultimately we would work for the board. >> Thank you. And then my last question is, um, speaking about cost again, um, so I know in that last slide you have the I tried to split it up financially, right? >> That keeps us moving. the the last slide there where you talk about the $10,000. What do you anticipate this would cost us as a district to use the ASA? >> I anticipate the
074cost would be below 10,000. So, we um put in a proposal there's is that appendix C? It's the last page of the proposal >> and um the only variable is if the board said well we want extra meetings. So we kind of bundle it in a package and say this is how much it costs per meeting. If you want to do more, you know, there is a cost because it's a flow through. We, you know, we can't expect Dr. Clement to drive up from Tucson for the fun of it, even though maybe his wife, his wife would pay us. No, sorry, the dog would. But, you know, so that's the only variable. And then we um the only expenses we add beyond the base package is for travel. So obviously having Dr. climate come, there's
075a little more mileage involved. I know from personal experience, he's like, I'm not going to spend the night in a hotel. I'd rather drive home late. And so, like with with Saddle Mountain, I hope I'm not breaching any confidentiality here, but like [snorts] with Saddle Mountain, a little further, you know, if you haven't noticed, it actually is quite a ways out there. I drove it every day, but um he, you know, he wouldn't stay overnight. And so then the last piece is those background checks are like 200 bucks a piece. That's a cost we incur, so we pass it along. Now, if you had 15 candidates, you said, "We want background checks on all of them." That becomes a a big expense. That's why we price it out separately. Usually, it's done for the finalists.
076Some some boards say we only want it for the the finalist, the last one that we negotiate with, but it's there's a price to it. >> Thank you. Um, board members, do you have any other questions for ASA? >> I don't know if it's necessary for them. I wish Miss Moser was here. Maybe you guys might know the procurement thing since we used them for our last superintendent search. Is it going to become an issue since we're like it was only a couple months ago and now we're using them again for the exact same thing. So if we do go with them, we still might have to go out and get other quotes. I'm not sure. Maybe it's an email to her. >> I I think so. And you know, if I'm being honest, I
077think it's important that we do that because this board has made it clear that procurement is a is a big issue. And again, from a foyer that I received, um, you know, ASA suggested that we create a PO for $9,999. And to me that based on the conversation that's happened on this board and the the big deal that was made that that was suspicious, it feels concerning to me that that was the suggestion. I I would concur and also that um it sounds like we're we obviously as correct me if any of the board members thinks differently, but it sounds like we want to start the process soon. extend, not extend it, but really do this thoroughly. So, if we're going to do it thoroughly, I can probably see us getting close to that 10,000,
078if not surpassing that. Um, and so to be on the safe side, I would agree that we probably need to go out for an RFQ. But, um, as for >> Mr. President, if I may, yes. Just to help a little bit with the procurement, you don't need a formal RFQ unless it's over a 100,000. >> Right. Right. But you do need three. They can be oral, believe it or not. But I would just to your points, I would highly recommend that you do get some other quotes and you know because you want to have some frame of reference and that from the legal side of you know what do you need for procurement. If you have three quotes you're fine if you exceed 10,000. >> Thank you. Does anybody have any other questions? Nope. All
079right. Thank you for your presentation. >> So on this one, we do have a motion. Um it's up to the board if we want to do a motion or else if we want to wait, we can discuss as well. >> I don't know if it needs to be a motion, but but we definitely need to get a couple other people in here. I think we probably just need to do it in agenda topic requests because this is this agenda item is just essentially their presentation. >> That would be correct. And just so you guys know, um there were a number of ones that were contacted and ASA was the only one that decided to come out here in person and and meet with us. So, thank you. We appreciate that. But um All right. So,
080not hearing any motions. All right. Then we'll just go ahead and move to item 4.1. >> Um, if I if the board could get an update on how many companies have been contacted uh for this >> M Zimmerman, I apologize for one second just so I can make sure everybody knows where we're at. So, I did say 4.1, but this is the governing board comments on agendic topics or recommended agenda topic addition. So, go ahead board members. >> Okay. Um, if we could just get an update on how many companies have been contacted um and um you know if they have declined to you know participate or if we could just get an update the whole board an update on where we are. And I promise I'm going to put them in the form >>
081on the spreadsheet. All right. Any others? >> Um, can we get an organizational meeting on the calendar, please? >> Yep. If nobody >> already put in the request for that. >> Thank you. So with that, I would like to do that sooner rather than later as um as obviously we have a lot going on. Um and we our next meeting is not for another almost two weeks, a week and a half. And so depending on what transpires um with what we find out with the different you know with what Miss Zimmerman is looking for and whatever is going on in the district we might have to have a special meeting next week. So be looking for possibly looking for an email from Miss Camarada looking for times and schedules when you guys might be available.
082Um, all right. And with that, up 5.1 upcoming board meetings. We have November 10th is a meeting. It's a special board meeting, regular board meeting. Supposed to be both. November 24th, we have a meeting. December 8th, we have a meeting. Uh, the 24th is optional right now on the calendar, but more than likely, we'll end up using that. Anybody have any conflicts with these right now? All right. So, with that, we'll go ahead and adjourn the meeting as all business has been concluded. We'll show that we're >> It was taken care of. >> Show that we're adjourning this meeting at 6:54. [snorts] >> [music] [music]