001[Music] Global Liberty Elementary School Board governing board meeting to order. June 5th, 2025, 4:30 p.m. here at the Jerry Roie District Facility. Five board members present including board member Schmidt, board member Zimmerman, Vice President Kenyon, board member Sion, myself, Michael Todd. Next item of business will be item 1.2. Vice President Kenyon, can you please lead us in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Next item of business is 1.3 approval of special meeting agenda. Mr. President, I make a motion to approve this agenda with with um board policy Sorry, let me start over. Motion to approve this agenda consistent with board policy BED and temporarily suspend governing
002board policy with which this agenda may be inconsistent. Second. I have a motion, a second to approve the agenda. There's no discussion. We'll take a vote. Board member Schmidt. I. Board member Zimmerman. I. Vice President Kenyon. I. Board member Senion. I. I'm also I sure that passed five yes zero no. Item 2.1 consideration and or action for governing board to have discussion and possibly take action regarding the next steps to fill the interim and or permanent superintendent position. Members, as you're well aware, we have a vacancy in the superintendent role in our district. I wanted to have this meeting as soon as possible to start discussing our next steps. Um, obviously the only way we can do that is here in a board setting. So that's why we're doing it here. Um, we'll start with
003uh, first I'll ask council, do you have anything you want to say ahead of time or no? Mr. Mr. President, members of the board, um I know that this is not your first time in this situation and you know that you have options. Uh there are um various avenues for you. One is to um use an outside agency to help you find either an acting or a permanent position. Uh the other is to do it yourself. Um the uh I have had experience with a number of a outside agencies that do this either in Arizona or elsewhere. And um of course with respect to procurement if you're under $10,000 you don't need to go through the RFP process. Um the available agencies are ASBA, Arizona school administrators which seems which is doing quite a bit
004of searches and then of course uh Ray and Associates um uh which is Gary Ray or one of his his former entity his current entity there's the McFersonen entity so um you have a a lot of choices there are right now and I can speak Just from experience of our law firm, since we represent a large amount of school districts, there are there is a lot of movement going on among different school districts. Um, new new superintendents, uh, interim superintendents coming off of that assignment. Uh, so there may be an available pool. I don't know. But there you are. I guess I if I were structuring it, I'd like to I think one idea would be to talk about whether you want to go for an interim or acting at this point um and wait
005till the normal cycle which is months down the road. Okay, members, uh we'll start with Miss Schmidt. Can you give us any thoughts, input that you might have or want to share with the board? Um, excuse me. Um, just some initial thoughts. Um, I think that I would lean towards going with an acting superintendent for the time being to get us uh to a place where then we can be in the normal cycle and have the availability of anybody. Uh that would be in the normal hiring cycle instead of just having the pool of people uh that would be available right now which are you know people who are only looking for acting positions potentially just to step in or people who were not hired in the last hiring cycle which would be a concern
006of mine. Um also I know we've discussed a bit or it's been talked about interviews um and lengths of interviews and things like that. Um, I hope that we can get to a point where we can discuss how we're going to do that process when we get there. I'm just bringing it up right now. I'm not saying we should get into the nitty-gritty of that. Um, it was just something off the top of my head. Um, that's what I have for right this moment, but uh with the option to to chime back in if something else pops in my head. Thank you. Uh, board member Zimmerman. Yeah, I'm just going to speak right now to whether I think we should um go for an interimm versus a permanent. And I believe that we should hire
007an interimm for an entire year. Um with us looking for a superintendent uh or starting the process in the fall and working our way into the winter. Um, the reason that I think we should be looking for an interim for an entire year is we are in a critical position currently in this district and I don't feel that we have the option to go through an entire process right now. I think we need someone quickly um to help lead this district forward. Um, and I think it would be great to pull um, somebody that is a retired um, superintendent that has successful superintendent experience. Um, and I think somebody outside the district will provide a clean slate for staff and for parents and community and try to find a way to unite um, our community.
008I think that's really important right now. So, um I'd like the opportunity to speak more about the permanent search either later tonight or at a different time, but my recommendation would be to look for an interim um quickly. Thank you, Vice President Kenyon. Thank you, President Todd. Um thank you, Susan, for that. Um, Miss uh I at this time I think the correct thing is looking at an interim um you know with that option. I think believe only president and myself were on the board for the last um selection and we had a cool pool of candidates that we were looking for interim position and then we let the candidates know that it's an interim position but what's your thought if are are you looking for just interim or are you looking for something interim
009plus maybe permanent if it works out for you and and that that seemed to work. There were some that only wanted interim and so there's others that they wanted interim and then if it worked out for him to stay in the district. Um I think it's a little bit hard to go for somebody who's, you know, for a permanent position at this point in the cycle. them. The pool is so small and it's um I'm not going to say not the best, but it probably isn't the best right now because the best superintendent are probably already half their contracts. Um and so th those are the reasons why I would say it's probably best to look at an interim at this point. Um, and in regards to whether we do it or we self- select,
010uh, I've been through that process last time we used Rayan Associates and it wasn't a bad process, but at the at this point, I would like to know more about what the process is for us to self- select. um mainly because of budget issues, but also, you know, I I think that we could probably find some pretty good candidates ourselves. That's all I have. Thank you, board members. Uh just a couple things. Um so, if we do an interim, I guess one question I had is we got to figure out like are we doing someone mentioned for a couple months, someone mentioned for the whole year. One concern I had like just to play a devil's advocate, one thing is like if when you do an interrum, it's hard for people to buy into what
011they're trying to do for that year. So, if we're just trying to get like a band-aid holder and not somebody that's actually going to put like policy or put their their spin on how they want something to run, then I'm okay with the interr. Um, just my experience in the business world, it's and it could be you guys have done this before hiring people uh superintendent. It's it's hard for staff to do buy in when it when they know that that person's only going to be there for a little bit. So, that's the only concern I have with doing interim. I don't have an issue with doing interim either. I'm just playing devil's akin on that. And then I had some questions about the the the process like Mr. Kenya was saying like if we
012use an outside agency, so they just like give us a list of candidates that are available and then we look at like who we want to interview or they do the interview and then give us like the top so many people like how does that work? President Todd, members of the board, u Mr. Cion um there's generally what they provide is um the advertising the screening um the selection system which is sometimes you do this ordering them and you know each one you rank them but um I would if I may if I proceed Mr. I would suggest that um because you have some board members that are new to this and you want to get somebody in there, I suggest you contact um uh ASA. Paul Ty is the president of ASA, but uh
013Mark Jordan is the person who does placements and have him come out and explain to you the process. That doesn't necessarily mean you're going to hire them, but he knows what's available out there as far as uh retired uh superintendents or administrators of any sort. And uh uh others that are just pinch hitting and there's two or three of them out there um for different school districts and then they move on when you hire a permanent one. So I I think you need somebody that understands the process and this is particularly vital because you're adopting whole new set of policies and you need to have somebody that understands what policies mean and and how they're how they interface with your day-to-day operations. Um and uh maybe that's a little long-winded answer. No, but there's different
014num there's different degrees of services. I think some of the services that out ofstate companies supply for larger districts than yours um are necessary for those districts but may not be necessary for your district. Thank you members. Um I would echo what was I think summarized by fellow board members. I think an interim search at this point is the way to go. I suppose there's nothing um prohibiting an interim. Let me rephrase that. We could make it as such that the interimm is not eligible to hire to apply for a permanent position down the road or we can allow them to do that if they want. I've seen that be done both directions in other positions. Some are very specific that if you take this interimm role, you absolutely cannot apply for the permanent position.
015Others um have allowed that to happen. So that would be some discussion for the board to have. I have just done a little bit of research and certainly there's a be a considerable amount of cost with the national search groups, the the private organizations. The uh ASA is a nonprofit organization and they basically charge costs. They're well under the $10,000 threshold and I think most the other ones are well over the 10,000 threshold. I'm not sure that what we got in the last process is uh I guess the return on investment didn't come back as I originally believed it would. So I appreciate Miss Seagull's sentiments about the ASA. I think especially from an interimm role, they uh they know the landscape. If it's interm likely going to be somebody instate. Um, I think having
016an in-state candidate is pretty critical to us just especially in an interimm role where they need to be all familiar with title 15 and state laws, state politics. Um, it's a pretty large learning curve to figure out Arizona education laws if you haven't lived here for a while. Um, there's people that go on to be lawyers and spend lots of money and time in school to try to understand it. So, um I think uh I think especially for the interimm position having an in-state candidate or somebody that's well vetted um maybe by the ASA I I guess there's a possibility. What I don't want to do is get in flying people out. I think it is um important that we try to fasttrack this, but on the same token talking to staff members, they certainly
017would like to have an opportunity to meet candidates or at least final candidates and I think that is important. Um, we learned some things from our previous round at this and I think uh giving staff an opportunity, staff in the community an opportunity, whether we do that as a committee meeting or a a reception type of deal. I think we can probably tie those up a a day or two of interviews and a night or half day of committee committee meeting and and still move relatively quickly with that. So those would be my ideas for this. Uh I know that the ASA kind of does a allocart opportunity as well. So if we wanted to perhaps have all the applications sent to us and maybe we even create a an internal group or when I
018say internal people here within the district either parents community members cross-section of all the above teachers to identify candidates that's another option we could look at. I'm sometimes a little concerned of an outside source saying we had pick a number 10 20 30 35 in the last instance who have applied and here's your best five. I feel like maybe we want to have our own write our own destination with this a little bit different a little bit better this time. So those would be things to consider for for the board. Um, and then we can I guess ask if you have any more thoughts or questions from here. Mr. President, you may go ahead. Uh, I don't know if this can put you and Mr. Kenyon on the spot or if you have time to
019think about like when you guys went through this last time, is there anything on top of your like on top of your mind that was like shortcomings or lessons learned that we we don't want to go back down that road again that you can share with us? Well, I I think the one thing to to learn is this moves pretty quickly. Um, as superintendents become Let me start over. As educators continue to promote, there's less and less positions available for them. So, they grab their positions quickly. they've got an offer and they think they're going to like it, they jump on it because if it passes by, um, school districts are in the same, we're in no different situation than many other districts as far as needing a superintendent, needing a good one. So, when
020they find one, they're going to move fast. And because there's a limited number of those positions available, you don't want to keep waiting for the next best opportunity and then find out it never came and now you're out of the hiring season, everybody's hired and and moved. So, what I did find was this process moves pretty quick. We had uh Vice President Kenyon, I think you can help me with this, but I want to say we had three maybe four candidates within about 48 hours of our first round of interviews drop out because they took other positions. Um, some of those were pretty high on the list. In fact, if memory serves me right, our our search firm had to reshuffle the deck because they were bringing us 10 candidates and four of the 10
021jumped out because they signed contracts. It's not that they weren't interested in our district. They very much were, but they got an opportunity and they took it. Some go out of state, some stay in state, so it'll move quick. Um, what I can say is that you get a limited time because this moves so fast. You, the feeling I got from every candidate we interviewed was, offer me the job tonight or I'm going to be gone tomorrow. Um, and most of them were signed pretty quick. I mean, I've looked back and kind of watched those folks on LinkedIn, and sure enough, when we notified them, they weren't in the top three, top two, you know, that that top cut. Within a matter of a couple days, they were all announcing um positions elsewhere. So, they
022move quick. They don't they don't wait around. They're not major league baseball players looking for the best trade. They they move quickly. Um with that, it puts a little bit of pressure on us as a district because if you've got a good one, same thing. If we find a good person and we're holding out for the next best, the next best may sign somewhere else and then we're we've lost two. So it is it is a tough process. Um I think more and more people are getting out of education as a whole and and so that makes that pool tighter or less desire. Less desirable is probably not the word but but limited for sure as to what's there. a lot of people are leaving the education field as a whole and and it's a
023tough spot. I think honestly as we looked around and you start doing searches um every superintendent let's put this into perspective the the word right now is that the average superintendent lasts for 18 months. That's what the average is. um that means they're all coming with some sort of for lack of a better phrase baggage or skeleton or or whatever whatever you want to call it. There's very few who are leaving their school districts and the school district isn't sending them on their way so to speak. So very hard to find that perfect candidate right now. And I I think that will be one of the the biggest challenges for any school board as you look at candidates. Well, there there's seven out of 10 points here. Can we find an eight? Can we find
024a nine? Ultimately, we want a 10. I don't know that the 10 exists. I don't even know if an 8.5 or an eight exists right now. Um I hope it does, but it's it's very tough. And if you can find an education right now, somebody that'll that'll give you some information about anybody. So, it is a tough it is a tough process and and it's going to require the board to do some quick work, fast work. You try to get these all lined up in a row. So, you're going to give up, you know, three, four, five nights in a row to to move forward and you have to move quickly but efficiently and and accurately. And and it's it's very hard. You're making a decision for a a person who ultimately becoming a CEO
025of about a $38 million organization. Um, and your time is limited with them for many reasons. First of all, they've got other opportunities and they'll just flat tell you, "I don't have time to meet with you a third time. I'm going to sign with somebody tomorrow, so here it is." And that sounds rough, but ultimately they're they're really in the driver's seat these days with uh with the number of positions that are open. Um, and but at the same time, there's scarcity in that position. So, it's that's kind of an oxymoron, but uh um they're they're moving fast and there are districts that are still hiring for superintendents. If you do a quick search in the newspapers, you see there's several superintendents in the state who are quote unquote on the bubble. Um some of
026them were on the bubble and they worked it out and they're staying. Others are probably leaving. So, even in talking to people now, we find that the hiring season has changed a lot. There's a lot of people who are who have left a district mid year or at the end of the year and are still still looking. I think you kind of alluded to that as well. Your firm's got this is different. It used to be if you didn't hit that November time frame to start looking there was nobody available but but it is changing a little bit. Um I um first of all there are a lot. There is a number of either retired former superintendents or high administrators who pick from that uh because they're retired, they don't really need money to live
027anything. There's also some that have uh just of their choice uh decided to move on. I wouldn't assume that people out there are flaws or whatever. There's some that where the board uh leadership change and so they want to change a motion to appoint one of you to reach out to um Mark Jordan and have him come as soon as possible meet with you. Marks with the ASA. Yeah. Uh Mr. Todd, can I make a few comments? You may. Thank you. Um I think uh I think it's really important that we do not make a decision um quickly in fear that we're going to lose somebody. I I I think we need to be um responsible in the process and ensure that we are vetting these people. Um and it's up to us to set
028the timeline. I think that you can have a good process and have it all occur in one day. Um if you've done a lot of leg work ahead of time and you know although I have not served on the board, I have been a part of both of the last two superintendent searches. I sat on the committee for the superintendent before the last one and I sat through and those were about 20 people sat on that committee. All mix of stakeholders and um um community members across all the schools. Um and we were able to give that feedback. The board got that feedback and then I sat through those five candidates that the committee interviewed. I also sat through their board interviews that afternoon. So they interviewed in the morning with the committee and interviewed
029with the board in in in live session um in open session and then um I also sat through the two um for the last you know process that happened in 2023. I sat through those board interviews um and at that time it was an interim um there was no um process for the permanent the the you know the the board offered the interimm the permanent position. So, um I think it's just important that we make sure we make a good decision. Um and we not rush it out of fear. Um I do think that it's important to include the public. Um that was not included in the last time and I think that's extremely important. My concern with doing it with the interim is how are we going to do that quickly? It's summer break.
030you know, are we are we thinking that we're not going to have an interim till August or September, or are we, you know, thinking we're going to do it in the next few weeks and who's available to come could come? Because I I think it's going to hurt starting the school year out without having somebody in place um you know, to to lead us forward. Um and and I hear what you say uh said, Mr. Spencade. um and staff not buy in. But at this time, I'm not looking as the interim as like an interview process for that person. I'm I just want somebody that can kind of, you know, lead us but not necessarily make like sweeping changes, right? Um and that we really do focus on the permanent search and that's when we're
031really, you know, looking about who's going to lead us into a five-year plan. And I do think it's possible that superintendents can say for a long time when we went to the West Valley um oh Westside Impact um you know we were recognizing superintendents that have been in their district for 20 years and I I looked around and you know I know the history of this district and I was like wow it really is possible and so it it honestly gave me a little bit of hope that maybe we could find that person because I feel like our district, our community um you know our staff deserve that kind of um permanency. So, um you know, I I would love for the board to have a discussion about what is the timeline to find an
032interim because I think that's important, but it's obviously up to Mr. Todd to further the discussion. No, I agree. Just just to clarify, I'm not saying that we do need to rush. Um I don't want to make a bad choice. I just when asked the question, you you get a limited time and they will move on. So if I misspoke on that, I want to be clear. You'll you'll just find yourself as we did. It took us a few days just to get the board together available for interviews. And in that time, we lost we lost candidates. So I was just trying to explain for board meion the process a little bit and what I saw as one of the pitfalls. If you're if you're not available, it's uh they they move quick. They don't
033wait for you. Um but I do agree with you, board members Zimmerman. Uh making the right selection is important. Uh it it is a tough process. Um there's no doubt about it. It's a tough process and it's become tougher. Those longtime superintendents who started off and have worked their way up and spent 20 years in a district weren't the superintendent for the most time for 20 years. Um and that's from everybody I've talked to that's kind of a a a legacy approach now that that's just unfortunately not happening. I'm not saying I agree with what's happening now, but the lifespan has just changed a lot for that position um because of things. I I certainly agree we should specify out sounds like we have the guidance for interim and I would be willing to take
034some information or some recommendations as far as goals of when we'd like to do this. We can if you guys want you can give me permission via vote to reach out to the ASA and we can find out when they're available. to come in to present with us and uh and we can go that route. Um talking to some other boards around this uh the state does sound like they're the most affordable that's out there and and everybody has told me the same thing. The under $10,000 I think they're there. So that's uh that helps us a little bit as well. We don't have to do an RFP. So with that, Mr. Zimmerman, do you have a timeline that you're thinking would be appropriate or recommend to start the process further or have the position
035filled? Maybe that's the better part. Yeah, I mean honestly I was thinking July 1. Um that that was my personal thought. I don't know if that is um doable. I can't think of a better word. Um, but you know, it's certainly going to require the board to be committed um to meet in the next couple weeks. But I think it would be great as we are hiring or hopefully hiring a lot of district staff and if we're hiring an interimm that that interimm is is present when they start, you know, and can kind of set the tone. Um, that that's my personal goal. Okay. So, uh, members, we have a meeting next Tuesday, um, already. It's a budget meeting to be rather long. I think we're going to need to work into schedules of of
036the ASA to present would sometime like the 18th um, 17th or 18th, would that work uh, for us to meet for a presentation by the ASA? Um, I don't know if that gives us enough time. Then then what I would say is based off of their input, we'd be meeting sometime the next week a little bit at the mercy of of when the candidates can come together. It may be, as I'm looking at the dates here, we might miss the July 1 date by a week or so, but uh I think we can certainly shoot for a July one. I'll just make a comment. Um, you know, uh, I agree that Tuesday could be long, but I kind of prefer to just do it all at once. Um, or or later in the week on
037Thursday, I think the sooner we can get them um, on the books, the 17th or 18th, that's, you know, almost two weeks from now. So, I'd like to move quicker, but I I can certainly if with board permission, we can ask them to come out for the next meeting Tuesday. I just don't know if they'll if they'll be available then. Um, and I have some travel that I have to tend to the vast majority of actually the entire week after our board meeting. Um, so that's why I was looking to to do it the following week. But if you if we take action, we can try to get them here Tuesday. Yeah, I think I think it's worth asking. I I realize that that would be a quick turnaround, but um is it is it
038something that you could join virtually, you know, just for the presentation so that we can get the process started or is you're not going to be available? I'm going to be in completely different time zones and I'm not sure how available will all be quite yet. Mr. President, members of the board, um I suggest you keep it openended, but no later than seven days from seven calendar days from today, for example, and see when they're able to come out. We can we can Mr. President, if I may. You may. Um I agree that the sooner we get this rolling, the better. Um it needs to be, you know, if we can start the school year having somebody in that position, it would be a wonderful thing uh for our district for stability for many different
039reasons. But um I would be okay with having you, President Todd, being the one of the board who reaches out to the ASA and tries to figure out their schedule, tries to set something up. Um that way we can get more information. If we end up going with them, we we end up going with them. That's a conversation later. But I think it's more important that we just get the information, see what's available out there, and just try to get this ball moving as as soon as possible. Okay. Um, we could do that. I think I'll take a board board action of a motion for that and we'll work to get it scheduled as soon as possible. So, um, I'll make a motion to appoint President Todd to reach out to the ASA regarding the
040interim and/or permanent superintendent search. And I have that written down for you, Miss I'll second it, M. Mr. President. Yes, sir. I got a procedural question. When we have like discussions like this, can you make multiple motions under one agenda item? Okay, you can. Okay, we have a motion. We have a second. Is there any discussion? There was some conversation around making the motion have a a time timeline um within seven days. Correct. Yes. So, I don't know if Mr. Kenyon wants to amend the motion or if you left it that way. Yeah, I I don't think I need to amend the motion. I think President Todd understands the the will of the board there. Okay. All right. So, we have the motion in a second to authorize me to reach out to DSA, schedule
041them. Uh, I'll do that as soon as possible. Um, if there's no further discussion, we'll take the vote. Miss Schmidt, I excuse me. I miss Zimmerman. I Vice President Kenyon I board member Stion. I I'm also I would show that proof five yes zero no. All right members that takes us to item 3.1 board comments on agenda topics and items for future consideration. Um I I think I've said this before, but if uh it doesn't if I realize that it takes time to get things on the agenda. So if we could just I am asking for a copy of the climate survey um results and comments if that could just be sent to the board and then at a later time it could be an agenda item. So I just wanted to specify my request.
042Okay. We have talked to uh um staff and he's still compiling all of that information. It's in it's in draft form. So I think uh I think it will be their goal to get it out as soon as it's completed. But it is on the list and we will get it. I promise. There anything else? Okay members, I had a conversation today with uh some principles. They uh met with Dr. Mahorn earlier today and and had a chance to speak with him for a little bit. They have recommended that they would like to come and have kind of a work session and and discussion with the board and I've committed to them that we will that I would do everything I could to expedite that process um before the start of the school year. Again,
043I think it we've got a lot going with the superintendent search, but I I just want to surface that and let you know that'll probably come as a special meeting where we can uh tap into some of their knowledge base and they can pose some questions and and uh we can just have a discussion much like a round table [Music] um not where so much decisions are being made but more of a round table discussion and an opportunity to to ask questions, have them ask questions. back and forth uh in a professional professional manner. So, I think that will be forthcoming at some point as a special meeting. Uh we'll send out a ask Miss Camarada to send out a doodle pool or whatever she's doing for that to check dates, but I did tell
044them that I would work on that. That's something they would like and I think it's very beneficial to the board. Um we're in a position now where we can do that. So, um, that's the only thing I just kind of want to throw out there for warning unless somebody strongly objects to it. Uh, just assured them that we would we I would work hard to get that done. So, I would second that. Great. Anything else for agenda items? Can I just ask if it should be done prior to the budget? We're trying to do that, but the budget starts Tuesday, so we've got to check with their availability. they have some vacations and we thought it would be important to have all of them. They felt the same thing to have all of them present.
045Okay. We also have some new principles that will be starting July 1. And so that was uh my message to them kind of communication was do you want to do it before July 1 or after July 1. Don't tell me now. Let's get back to it in a couple days and figure out what's best. Um and and I think this might become more of a regular occurring event in the future. I think there's uh as I said, I think we're finally in a position where we can have the ability to meet. Dr. Mahorn's been very supportive of that idea and uh and I'm I'm excited about that opportunity. But uh we'll work with them a little bit more to figure out what schedules are like. They all have a return date right of July 14th.
046So several of them on are sporadically on vacation between now and July 14th. After July 14th, the district has told them they all need to be back in the saddle, so to speak, and be ready to go. Um, so we'll we'll work on some times and dates and and get back with you on that. All right. If there's nothing else, we'll move, excuse me, my apologies. Uh, upcoming board meetings, we will get to see everybody bright and early Saturday, June 7th. Um, that's in two days for a special board meeting for uh, policy chapter 5 of the trust. Um, and then we'll have a meeting Tuesday, June 10th. That'll be mostly budget related. There are some other items on the agenda and we're going to try my best to get ASA if they're available to
047come for that as well. Um, I think that's currently scheduled for a 4:30 or 5:30 start. Do you know on the 10th on the 10th? It's 5:30. 5:30. Members, would you would it at all be possible to if we can get ASA to start that at 4:30 so that we can get business going? perhaps. Is there any objections to starting at 4:30? All right, I'm hearing no objection. So, if we can, we'll try to get that started at 4:30. I'll let you know, Miss Cameron, after we talk to ASA, I'll make the phone call to them first thing tomorrow. All right, we're on to 5.1, the adjournment of the meeting. We've concluded all the business for this agenda. It's 5:10. We'll show the meeting adjourned. [Music]