001commissioner Milstein here commissioner mills commissioner get Randall Commissioner Ackerman yeah Commissioner Briggs Commissioner Sylve Commissioner Trudeau Commissioner Wetherby Commissioner woods full house full house excellent approval agenda do have a Commissioner will move the agenda move by Commissioner would seconded by Commissioner Mills any changes to the agenda see none all those in favor please say aye opposed it's proved introductions do we have any introductions this evening no right minutes a previous meeting we don't have any minutes before us this evening reports from city administration City Council Planning Manager Planning Commission officers and committees written communications and petitions we'll begin with our city council representative Commissioner acrimony Thank You mr. chair a short number of updates for you the first three have to do with appointments to to commissions and task forces at the city as you
002may know the center of the city task force is being assembled a first large step in that is assembling a slate of recommendations for City Council's approval to sit on that body that slate of recommendations were made by council members really grand and council member jeff Haner last night it's a diverse group by discipline and seemingly in perspective based on resumes and I'm excited about that the other update is two of our esteemed colleagues will be leaving us their nominations for reappointment were not approved mayor Taylor has put forward two names as as possible replacements for City Council's approval those are Ellie Abrams an associate professor of architecture at the University of Michigan and Sarah hammerschmidt this a senior director at the Urban Land Institute again their resumes and application down publicly accessible or please
003feel free to follow up with me if you'd like copies of them and then the last item which has to do with land use more specifically the city voted the City Council voted to execute its right to first refusal on a property at 11:46 South maple you all may remember Avalon housing came forward probably about a year and a half maybe two years ago now on for a development called Hickory way which would have been around 70 units of affordable housing and in the South maple area this property is actually immediately adjacent to it and the city will hopefully now be moving forward on purchasing it which would allow Avalon hopefully in partnership with the city to build an additional 14 units as an extension of Hickory way so exciting way to partner with a
004nonprofit in the community who's making meaningful impact on our affordable housing market Thank You mr. Leonard you have a report for us this evening just one brief addendum City Council also approved funding for a new software system that will replace track it it's enter gov and it'll provide us a lot of updated capabilities for sharing information project processing online submission of different types of applications as well as a return to the ability to map out projects and explore projects both on a list search or a geographic basis so next steps will be executing a contract there'll be a significant rollout of new software you know configuring for our needs but we're really excited about that opportunity that'll impact everything from planning petitions to building permits to city clerk licenses so very exciting and then just
005a quick remote for members of the public if I would ask that if you could fill out a card if you tend to speak if you intend to speak during any public hearings not that you need to sign in but this is a way that we can ensure that we record your information accurately and as well as there's an opportunity to submit your email on the bottom of this in the event that your project of interest is postponed we will notify you of any upcoming hearings associated with that petition thank you planning commission officers and committees are there any reports this evening all right written communications and petitions we have quite a bit to to review as well as a couple last-minute submissions if you can look through your packet we now move on to
006audience participation this is the time for audience to address the Planning Commission and regards to items that are not on our agenda so if you would like to address the Planning Commission in regards to an item that is not on our agenda this evening you may please step forward to the podium state your name and address for the record and you'll have up to three minutes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one we will move on to public hearing scheduled for next Planning Commission meeting yes the publication deadline excuse me as a reminder because of commissioner absences the first meeting in July has been cancelled so no confirmations of scheduling until the following meeting which will be July 15th if I have that right so that's why no report in that regard great unfinished
007business we have our fiscal year 2020 work plan approval which is in our packet mr. Leonard yes this reflects a discussion at a working session about amendments to your next year's work program you may recall additionally that this was also included on the last agenda but the title was included subcommittee appointments and incorrectly didn't include include work plans so we've we carried it forward highlights are of course the the Planning Commission's annual responsibility for the capital improvements plan as previously designated by the Planning Commission a recommendation to undertake a comprehensive review of the master plan and then ordinate ordinance amendments finalizing the sign ordinance Update which we are in the final stages of general UDC fixes and updates which you've already considered some there will be more on the horizon any city council directed amendments
008for fiscal year 2020 ones that are sort of in the hopper include affordable housing premiums and potential Airbnb or short-term rental regulations and then transit oriented development corridor zoning that's something we've had some starts and stops over I'd like to get that resolved in the coming year and then evaluating our parking standards do have a commissioner they'll move approval of the work plan move by commissioner survey seconded by Commissioner gear and all discussion on the work plan all right seeing nobody all those in favor please do a discussion I'm a tracker Minh I just want to thank staff everything on here is you know gonna be representative of a lot of labor on their part and just want to express how grateful I am and I'm sure we all are for the labor that goes
009on behind the scenes to push this stuff forward so thank you any further discussion all those in favor please say aye opposed it is approved thank you we now move on to new business we have one item on our agenda for new business which is two eight five seven Packard Road PUD site plan for city council approval this evening our procedure will be for the petitioner to make their presentation they'll have up to ten minutes to present the project we will then move on to our city staff for a report and then we will open up the public hearing after we wrap up the public hearing we will then move on to discussion and a vote so we will begin with the petitioner presentation good evening planning commission my name is tom covert I'm with
010Midwestern consulting I'm here today with Jim Heisler the developer of the project from Peters building company and with many members of our design team including our engineer our traffic engineer and our Landscape Architect a quick contextual summary of our site location our project site is located to the west of platon Packard intersection across from the new Grace Church and Mary Beth Doyle Park we're on the north side of Packard road a bit east of Bert Park it's routed by the Green Li and like kensington farms neighborhoods you will recall from previous meetings that this site in the master plan is designated as site eight site a dia is recommended for single-family residential development the project had pursued and achieved conditional rezoning an area plan approval in 2016 there were a number of conditions with that
011project and that included a maximum of 52 dwelling units for distinct model homes with the same models not to be built next to each other a minimum of five one-story ranches to be built along the perimeter attached garages were not to project further than 10 feet 12 feet from the front of the house and six feet from the porch and we were providing a 15 foot wide landscape buffer about the perimeter of the property you'll also recall that the site plan was denied and with that denial came legal action and further conversation about the project through this conversation we looked to different creative ways to better preserve natural features better aligning the project with the approved area plan and the conditional rezoning the revised project as depicted here in the photo can overlaid on the
012existing the existing aerial for the site has 51 units it has detached signal family lots of along the perimeter of the project along the west north and east there's 25 single family lots there it has attached units in the center with a center block of the site the core if you will it maintains the conditions of the r-1 Eve rezoning it preserves additional areas of natural features in the areas with the ash Asterix with this plan there were no changes to the utility infrastructure layout or easements the stormwater solution still provides for over detaining if you will a stormwater that would be bypassed stormwater instead we're capturing that on site it continues to have the same access points to Packard and it continues to have the same home styling the developer envisions the home character
013to be consistent with what's depicted in these pictures with two-story and single story ranches the proposed planning Planned Unit development comparison with the approved area plan with regard to woodlands we reduce impacts to the woodlands by 1/10 of an acre we preserve 208 more inches of landmark trees we are within 24 inches that as a within 24 inches of achieving the same number of landmark trees that were impacted we are providing mitigation for those impacts both on-site and off-site and with the PUD as you recall when we had a prepetition conference we had talked about natural features maintenance plans so that's now included with us the PUD plan that's before you what are the benefits of the PUD it provides for diverse housing typology for the in Arbor Market the attached units being located in
014a established residential area along a transit corridor it limits the density of this project and the property it provides for the net better natural features president preservation when compared to the site plan and is in line with what was approved with the rezoning and area plan our stormwater management is meeting or exceeding the base stormwater standards in that we are addressing historical flooding issues of adjacent neighborhood properties that are off site we're capturing off-site stormwater management and detaining it and infiltrating it on-site and why would you know one of the questions we get a lot is why would it be pursue the PUD and that's for one one of the simple facts that we we can't attach units in the r1z with the conditions that are approved on the site our goal here tonight is
015to gain your input on the project answer any questions that you might have and respectfully write request recommendation for approval by City Council thank you very much thank you will now head on over to mr. Chang for staff report but I did what I had a couple of things in your packets you'll see a lot of letters from the neighbors and I tried to answer some of the questions that were brought up and setting me trying to paraphrase I'm just gonna read directly from the responses that we received from city staff this one is in regards to a fence that's located on the east property line that has sheared I believe with the ward family the fence has been there since approximately 1960 according to the neighbors and the response from as far as the
016the trees go and the mitigation the site plan was reviewed based on the survey provided however whether they are on the 28.57 packard site or the neighbor's property to the east these trees are being preserved if the property dispute is resolved the trees belong to the neighboring property than the number of landmark trees and woodland trees shown as being on the two a57 package set would be reduced in the number of trees woodland and landmark trees preserved would be reduced as well this would have no impact on the mitigation calculations as these trees are being preserved and mitigation is not required it goes on to state that they are staying outside of the critical root zones along this Eastern property line and that the landmark trees will be preserved along with landscaping many of the
017trees along this fence line are not of high quality or a natural feature and many are in poor condition along some of the other questions that came up was mosquitoes regarding the storm water detention so we had a response from our stormwater reviewer that under normal conditions the proposed detention ponds and infiltration basin are not designed to have standing water in them for long periods of time this time spans that the pawns are designed to hold water before infiltrated or discharging into the storm sewer are not long enough to multiple to promote the growth of mosquito larvae and then finally from the Washington County Water Resources Commissioner regarding the storm water that's being captured on-site off-site the rules stipulate that the attention must be provided for on-site runoff in any off-site runoff that is directed
018to the stormwater management system if the off-site runoff can bypass the development to follow the natural flow pass without greatly changing the existing flow patterns the rules allow for that with regard to the Northeast basin under the current site layout off site drainage could not I pass a system without changing the flow path and or consent rating the flow so it was required to be included in the Northeast basin however by having the runoff from the northern offsite areas be directed into the Northeast basin the amount of runoff that goes to the eastern adjoining properties will greatly be reduced from current conditions I also spoke with the the parks director regarding the existing house on site is possibly being moved to cobblestone farm I'm paraphrasing here I don't have that in writing there is no
019official application that's been submitted for pact but he does have concerns regarding who would pay for the cost of moving the house for the maintenance of the house where to be located at cobblestone farms the programming so there's a lot of unanswered questions whether Peck would accept this house to be moved and I'm open for any questions you may have thank you at this time I'd like to open up the public hearing um members of the audience who wish to address the Planning Commission this is your opportunity to speak to us in regards to this petition you will have up to three minutes to address the Planning Commission so whoever would like to come out first just please remember to state your name and address for the record hi my name is Karen white I
020live at 27:19 Cranbrook Road and I've now been here enough that I feel not so nervous talking to you about this first the house I have recently been contacted by the owner Robert Weber he is interested in selling the house he is asking forty thousand dollars I pointed out to mr. Weber that I had contacted him as part of a historic preservation group back in 2017 when he wouldn't let us see the house if he had let us see the house then we could have documented it and we would probably have plans in place on where to move it to and we would have funds in place to take care of it so that's setting that aside I have been learning the rules for planning I'm here to play my part this is citizen participation
021this PUD is starting with a very slightly modified version of what many of my neighbors and I consider to be a horrid proposal it has been justly criticized by planning staff by the Planning Commission by residents adjacent to the site and by City Council I have shared my concerns starting in December of 2016 with my city council representatives I was at the citizen participation meeting in February of 2019 I am not opposed to development I think there will have to be development on this site but I don't think we have to accept bad development and this is too important a site to not get citizen input if the developers had worked with the citizens and the residents in a meaningful way I would have had time to document the house be well on the way
022to relocating it I have to wonder if there was deliberate obligation the developer could be breaking ground right now so if you're already in a hole I would urge you to stop digging he is putting forward an unacceptable plan I think he should work with citizens to put together a good plan thank you anybody else I'm sorry I don't please state your name and address I am give me my husband I leave a 27-20 Cranbrook Road we're across the street from the previous person we are congested now as it is in our subdivision I know it's not considered a subdivision but it's it's easy Cranbrook here on Chesterfield we are a subdivision at one time it had a name I'm sorry I don't remember anymore what the name was we are congested traffic wise very
023congested at one point traffic was directed through our subdivision when they were working on the intersection for Packard and Platt it was horrendous people still cut through there's tons of tons of traffic we have difficulty getting out on the packet and the plat because there are no legs to let us out there are a lot of us living in that location this site is very small I know the map likes that look like it's really big these houses will not have any property around them they were being squeezed up against each other it's not practical there are too many people they're putting in there'll be too much traffic we'll have even worse time getting out on the Packard and trying to get to work the traffic is horrendous I think you should reconsider and I'll
024look for the car thank you hello my name is Richard Taylor I live at 2814 Cranbrook here in Ann Arbor I did send an email to Chris Chang which I believe he forwarded to all of you and you have with you at this time so the developer in the in the beginning got the zoning change from r1c which is all the rest of the neighborhood to r1e in 2016 based on a not very specific area plan numerous references were made at that time to the fact that an area plan is an extremely unusual way to get a zoning change and I do recall one member of the Planning Commission stating that approval of an area plan did not mean should not be construed as approval for further plans the developer now wants a PUD with
025attached housing the same congested housing that was previously in the plan this is completely way out of line dramatically inconsistent with all of the surrounding housing that's still zoned r1 see attached housing in this area also sets a very poor precedent for future development secondly from the start in 2016 the developers plans have reflected a blatant disregard for city guidelines regarding natural features and canopy coverage the most especially regarding that is the site plan that the city council did not approve in 2017 that was a reasonable decision I understand that there's litigation regarding that I do not think that the Planning Commission should be intimidated by litigation which in my opinion is completely unfounded to approve the PUD is like accommodating a person who has just install your intelligence I recall and 2016 that there
026were numerous references made to the fact that r1e was necessary for this property because there could be some inclusion of affordable housing there was talk about it being on a bus line was talking about being able to walk to stores at this present time with the PUD the developer has no intention of including affordable housing the other matters that are of concern here is the as an outlined in my email there are serious issues regarding the developers take on the correct boundaries for this property I think those need to be clarified before there's any decision made thank you so much thank you doesn't work too well some days I'm sorry I missed the last meeting but I was doing a pneumonia thing and that didn't allow for me to come here my name is Patrick
027Delaney and I live at 2804 Cranbrook Road and the things that concern me about this new plan with the 15-foot offset or whatever you want to call it is the grade on the offset if you look at a big drawing dumps at least a third of the angle back into our yards and it brings there it goes clear back up to the pond the other thing is that the very very large trees I have three trees behind my garage well actually ones besides the garage that drop limbs in my house my property and if the big tree which hasn't been cared for drop so very large limit is going to wipe out in my garage and a couple of collectible cars inside is the and the 15-foot offset obscures in my mind who is responsible
028for those trees they're on their property but with that 15-foot offset unless there's a better explanation that I've been able to find so far that 15-foot offset just obscures their responsibility to the neighbors the existing neighbors and that's of great concern to me so thank you very much thank you anyone else hi my name is Katherine angstrom I'm at 2618 Easy Street um so I have you know sorry because I forget sorry I haven't been to a few of these um I'm a student and I have two kids under three so it's just chaos um so I am begging you to reconsider this plan single family homes are just not the way of the future we need something that is even slightly representative affordable housing we need it now I have friends being priced out
029of their rentals I have friends being priced out of their neighborhoods our neighborhood something that I love since I've moved here is that it is somewhat quote unquote affordable and we're gonna lose the way if we turn this into cookie-cutter single-family homes this plan doesn't seem sustainable and I think that a Ann Arbor is a good enough City and a strong enough City to be the example and to lead the way for green development in the future and I think we desperately need to stand up for that and I think that this site should be developed I just think we should absolutely do everything that we can to make sure this is good for everyone not just the people that can afford 500k for a house that's not everyone in this city so thanks for
030let me talk thank you [Applause] anyone else hi I'm Darcy Gaytan Hannah I live at 27 25 Radcliffe and I've heard quite a few points I agree with it's very difficult getting out of the neighborhood that I'm in which is east of what this is especially rush-hour getting out on Packard or getting out on Platt is very difficult and almost as dangerous on Platt I - dismayed that there's not affordable housing in this dismayed that you will be removing baroque trees the deer population and they say eight acres is going to be displaced they'll probably be running through our neighborhood which they already are now we get deer all the time big deer bucks running through our neighborhood I I don't even haven't heard how many deer are on this eight acres but I imagine
031there's quite a few I also don't like hearing about a historical home being destroyed and I think this development is way too packed with the housing too close together I don't like the layout at all thank you for listening thank you [Applause] anyone else my name is Susan and I agree with everything everybody has said here tonight and I understand about development and we need we need to keep the city moving forward I've been in this South East Ann Arbor for over three decades and I've been out on Ellsworth I've been over off stone and now I'm here on Carmel and he's just growing and growing and growing it for years and years and years this area was considered you mentioned to somebody I live at Packard and Platte and they were like oh oh
032Packard and Platt now I guess it's the place to be in town and I breathe with her buddy you know development most likely will happen I just feel this is too dense you I looked at the City Planning you're talking about renewable materials they don't see that in this plan and wanted ition that nobody has talked about and if you've ever been on Packer Road anywhere from 7:30 to 9:30 in the morning I keep thinking about school children you know we don't have sidewalks on Carmel but easy just got some school children leaving that complex walking along Packard when cars are flying by 5060 miles an hour I'm an adult and it frightens me I can't imagine are we gonna be talking about this with the schools are we gonna hire crossing guards I mean
033what's going to happen so that's something that I haven't heard but I concur with everything all my neighbors have said thank you thank you [Applause] good evening Ron left to 6:45 Easy Street I live about three houses away from the planned development I've got three points the first one is the big one this development appears to be very ill-conceived it's unlike what stated in the in the proposers plans it is not financially accessible certainly not relative to the rest of the neighborhood it is a de facto gentrification relative to the neighborhood it's out of character in a detrimental way to the feeling and overall ambience of the neighborhood and it represents a very severe impact to the trees on the site the houses in the neighborhood are in the low 1,000 square feet the bulk
034of the houses in the development will be 2,000 square feet the houses in the neighborhood are for the most part 200 $250,000 which is not cheap but it's an entryway into an arbor the development is 350 to 450 thousand it's a whole other social class and social category most of the houses in the neighborhood are ranches this will be two-story houses that will stick out dramatically from the overall look and feel of the neighborhood and finally the density most of these small ranch houses in the neighborhood are on the medium-large Lots here you're squeezing in 51 units into seven acres they'll be medium bloated houses and a small dense environment so it feels like it's gonna stick out like a sore thumb and not a pleasant one I don't know if there's a pleasant sore
035thumb tree impact even with the pod there they're leaving one quarter of the woodland trees they're leaving one-third of landmark trees but only 1/7 of those are being retained without impact to their critical root damage those we just saw so that's the other part so fundamentally I know you're here to consider whether to grant the pod but I believe as many of the residents of express that the transitions from R 1 C 2 R 1 e was a mistake it was justified as economic viability of the property but the the actual price of the of the owner to hopper has not been disclosed it hasn't been transparent the city does not owe an owner of property the maximum value that could possibly get from their property and rezoning to accommodate that so I believe that
036we need to reconsider this from the ground up not just a PUD reconsider rezoning to r1 C which Bret in a recent educational session explained was a possibility perhaps a difficult one and step back and look at this from the beginning that's the first point big picture secondly one of the negotiation points that have been brought up frequently is including by the developers themselves is the owner could do clear-cutting of the entire property because it's a single-family home we need to find a way to move around that loophole to make sure that if a single-family home owner is intending to do a multi-unit development they can't do a clear cut and then proceed how to do that there are creative ways I don't certainly not in my 15 seconds but that needs to be addressed
037because it's a loophole the creative thinking can at least mitigate or deter as opposed to being a bargaining chip of the developer to say hey we could just do it all last point is please delay your decision recommendation what you're seeing here is a fraction of the negative input that's been heard we've only gotten educated ten days ago by Brett and Alex give us a little more time to call us the opinion of the neighborhood thank you very much thank you a little different opinion than those previously perhaps my name is Eileen Corina right a little bit 2 8 8 Easy Street or 2 8 8 9 Easy Street so I back right up to some of those really big gorgeous trees that's my passion that property the new plan I actually like the density
038of the center I support the PUD just because it gives more flexibility what I don't like is the density in general so I am opposed to landmark trees 57 and 38 being removed if we could somehow tweak that plan a little bit that would be great I have a little figure here from the American forest that says one tree can intercept 760 gallons of rainwater in its crown so the more trees the better I am concerned about children going to school about traffic but my main thing is save the damn trees thank you hello to all my name is dan village I live 27:19 Cranbrook have a few points to make first and way to briefly about the house which deserves a huge amount of talk because it's been there for longer than we have
039it should be considered a feature of this property and not a bug I'd like to propose a development where we keep the house there and we have the architecture be inspired by it mallets Creek settlement it's beautiful part of Ann Arbor it's part of our history look at this thing I used to drive for AATA for 18 years traffic is horrible it's dangerous with the kids there the kids are gonna have to walk across the street at Easy Street and Packard if you shouldn't go ahead and build something they're dangerous bad trying to get out of the place onto Packard ridiculous try to get out of chesterfield onto Packard you have a wider deal if you're trying to make a left turn onto Packer and you've got three people waiting behind you oh my god
040I better go fast what if there's kids trying to cross in front you because you're coming home from school PD is supposed to be a benefit to the city I don't see a benefit to the scene what's the benefit I'd like to build a roller a roller derby on my lot I got a secret I got a secret offer from a developer and if you just give me a variance you help me make some money what shouldn't work that way nobody deserves if the property cannot be developed profitably within the laws of the city then maybe the pricing is off maybe there's something wrong with the economic model here thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes my apologies for coming here late my name is James d'amour I am NOT a
041direct neighbour of this project however I live a couple blocks over at 277 1 Maplewood Avenue and as many of you know I'm very familiar with the planning processes of this city so I'm sorry if I missed several the other comments that were made here so forgive me if they seem repetitive just a couple points and just looking at this process and being somewhat familiar with it I'm a little troubled this is something you can't address tonight but something that I've seen observing planning issues for many years and that is you have the role of policy makers you're the ones that make the decisions and yes you rely on the professional city staff to make those policy recommendations and by large what I've seen you have a tremendous as city staff at your disposal and
042I think of all the service that they have done but one of the things I've always thought for something as important as this this is something that should not be held to a staff recommendation I think the ordinance revision is in order so that staff is not burdened with that that is something that all of you need to make and each of you either have a great interest if not a professional background to that you know the right decisions to make and you can do your best instinct you give it your best shot that something needs to be done that it's not germane you can't take care of that tonight that's something you need to move forward with with the ordinance revisions committee secondly as discussed before by a previous speaker if we are going
043to go with a plan unit development project the benefit the threshold that benefit must be extremely high how green is this is this a pro path there's this a totally green project because they have a community level energy projects that are there lastly something that I'm rather angered about and that is I don't like the idea of the city being blackmailed this project has been before you and the various one before you and I don't recall if this body denied it but I know certainly council denied it he went through the process on the basis of natural features and just because a developer says or may there's allegations and made I do not know I have an open mind with respect to this project that says if you don't do this we will cut down
044the trees and we'll sue you anyway that is a terrible way to do business what you need to do is go on the merits of this project and the benefits of this project moving forward must be very very high if not stand your ground and recommend you now to this project thank you for considering my comments thank you is there anyone else in the audience wishes to address the Planning Commission my main concern is the water and where it's where it's gonna go the detention areas concern me we are having our mains repaired in this neighborhood so I live on the other side but we don't have basements for a reason on Beacon Hill because the water table is high if you can fix the water table and the way the grading so is slanted
045so that are the neighbors are not washed out and have a water or pond in the backyard I think I think this could be a workable situation I'd like to see that happen thank you thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one I'll close the public hearing and I will read the two motions before us this evening the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approve the Weber rezoning petition from our 1e single-family residential with conditions to PUD plan unit development district and supplemental regulations motion number two the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approve the Weber PUD site plan and development agreement conditioned upon submission of an ecological maintenance plan
046for the natural features be submitted to be submitted and approved by the city to have a commissioner they'll move both of those move by Commissioner Gabriel seconded by Commissioner Mills and we'll start with discussion we'll go to Commissioner Ackerman Thank You mr. chair thank you to the residents who have been engaged in this for two and a half three years now it's been quite the process thanks to to the city staff for your diligence throughout all this there have been a number of staff reports none of them are duplicates of the lasts has been a lot of unique or and a lotta thorough analysis I think there was a you know good summary of how we got here but on the part of the developer on the part of staff and on the part of
047residents so the first part of what I wanted to talk about I think has been covered I think the the major key difference of where we are right now is that our the lawsuit I should say when the developer sued the city has been stayed and we're here we are and I think that context is important as a member of City Council I'm privy to some privileged and confidential information other people aren't and I'm in an uncomfortable and awkward position I just want to get that out there so I'm gonna do my best to talk about the the merits or the lack of merits of this specific project you know but without mentioning the fact that there's legal context around this would be a failure I think as we go through this round of revisions
048to the site plan they're kind of four primary goals that I'd identified based on the themes I hear from constituents the first is decrease the impact on natural features I mean that's not only something we hear from constituents but it's something that the petitioner is legally obligated to do because though ask proposal was was denied based on the fact that didn't meet our zoning requirements with respect to preserving natural features namely trees the next is improving the stormwater management situation that is the flooding situation in the area the third is decreased the impact on neighbors and when I say that I mean the massing of the buildings they're you know relative location to neighbors houses the traffic and then demographic changes I've heard from two - very thoughtful notes from constituents around what are the
049impacts of new construction to the housing market in the area and then the final was the the farmhouse I wanted to check in on that since our last citizen participation meeting in April and thank you Karen for for the update I drafted an email to that I'll send them the meetings over while you were speaking to follow up on that so I guess I want to start with those goals in order and really tackle the first three because the the farmhouse sounds like there's some conversation we have to have offline but decreasing the impact on natural features particularly trees so from what I understand this saves an additional 37 woodland trees which are trees under six inches in diameter and five landmark trees which would be over the six inches I just wanted to I
050guess a clerical question I'm a little confused by the math in the table and page three of the staff report I'm having a hard time getting the numbers to add up and I just want to make sure that I'm working off of a fully accurate picture of what the situation was with the trees so we have currently 54 or 50 she's made 57 landmark trees and then under this PUD I see that 38 trees are slated for removal and that there would be a preservation of an additional 13 which is different than the number referenced earlier or referenced earlier and I believe different than what the presentation from the developer was I'm trying to better reconcile those numbers so I think on page 2 of the staff report says five additional landmark trees will be
051preserved and then it it looks like it would be 13 trees on the table on page 3 and then when I mean the developers presentation it looked like there would be actually fewer trees preserved so I just want to make sure that I could very well be confused by I just want to make sure we were working off the same numbers well so so there's a row for woodland trees so under six inches oh yeah row for woodland row for landmark and there's a column the these two white columns would be for the current PUD and then the two dark columns would be for the site plan that was denied and so I'm seeing you just it'd be sewing the the denied site plan seven landmark trees would be preserved which still when we gets
052either right but these don't add up to fifty seven and these done that up to fifty seven and similarly this is a number of thirteen but on page two it says five and the developer said that we're actually decreasing the number of preserved trees okay yeah sorry I could have sent those in earlier I just caught my eye a little too late so I mean some Samara I want to make sure we're working off the right number of trees I think that's really important calculus as we make this decision because trees were the factor the the next I want to just comment on it on a benefit that a lot of these trees being saved or per Oaks which represents some of the oldest forest fragment that survives in the city that's good the wind
053is small but we're faced with an uncomfortable situation that's been characterized as blackmail not put to put that aspersion on to the developer but it's the situation we're in I also wanted to follow up on landmark trees 37 and 58 that was the first I had heard those reference specifically was in the public comment here I just want to get a sense of what those trees are where they are and what we could potentially do to to bridge that gap so I guess those are my tree related questions I don't know if we want to take a pause on trees and move to a different subject while we're doing some review I think it'd be helpful to have the developer excuse me ma'am sorry this is for our discussion at this time yeah maybe if
054the development team team can show us on a map of where number 3758 are located 37 and 58 and if you can step up to the podium when you have that information 57 and 38 is that right 57 the trees that we identified have tag numbers that are four digits I think it was mentioned by one of our neighbors that it was the trees if she wants to look at the map and show us where those trees are or where she identified 57 and 37 that would be helpful so that 57 and 58 is the number of trees those are trees specific but the trees that we anticipate preserving at the site if you look at the map that's up here or maybe on your screen in front of you generally speaking with the revised
055layout we created open space areas along the Western property line by connecting the buildings or the units interior to that block and then that allowed us to create the West open space areas and then the open space in the area at the southeast near the entrance to the development and then it also by attaching the units allowed us to preserve trees in the between the backs of the units that are attached in that central block so that's generally there where trees are being preserved and then there's also trees around the site in that 15 foot buffer area but are being preserved as well so I if I could expand a little bit more what was mentioned I can have Tina get into the numbers for you of trees but there's something that that chart does
056the chart that Commissioner Ackerman is looking at compares our our proposed PUD to the denied site plan and the chart and numbers that we were using compares the approved area plan to the proposed PUD plan so there are some number differences further my understanding and Tina can crack this is that the chart you're looking at you include all the trees that were surveyed and not necessarily all the trees that meet the requirements for regulation by the city or are even on our property there may be trees in that table that we identified and located that are just off the property line but within that area that we need to study when we provide a site plan so I think some of the numbers in that are difficult to understand when you compare them to the
057calculations on our site plan so our tree mapping looks at the trees that meet the requirements of the landmark tree a woodland tree the category categorize them that way and then we also look at the trees that are on our site as opposed to all trees that are greater than six inches per se okay so the staff report is comparing apples to oranges your presentation was comparing apples and bananas sure okay all right I still want to return to the the numbers because I want to really shore up exactly what the situation is on the ground or would be on the ground but while we take a pause there I want to turn my attention to stormwater so we have neighbors of the property that are flooding it you know face flooding especially on the
058Cranbrook to the Northeast and then running through to streets like Beacon Hill can you walk us through the stormwater plan as I understand it it's now your objective and plan to store water beyond that which is created on your site or caught on your site and also some from adjacent properties can you talk us through what that benefit actually translates into both in numbers and kind of lived experience of the neighbors yep so currently we provide a stormwater management system which meets the requirements of the County stormwater management and policies and guidelines and includes infiltration of stormwater we have three basins two of which are large Packard Road and then one that is at the northeast corner of the project site all of these detention basins have the opportunity to provide infiltration to the groundwater
059and they also have an opportunity to provide piped outlet to Packard Road stormwater management system which has capacity to address the stormwater from the proposed development the existing conditions at the site are that it's sloped from the west to the east slightly north west to southeast and there's water that comes from the let's say Carmel street in Easy Street homes lots because those they were developed at a different time so they weren't necessarily required to pick up stormwater and convey it to a stormwater system so that rain water surface water hits the surface it flows through there lots through our site and what has been described to us as a pond or a pardoning that exists to number of the lots maybe four five lots along Cranbrook Road in their backyard so what we're doing
060is one of the things you can provide with a development is you can bypass that off-site stormwater that's perfectly acceptable you heard Chris explain it to everybody we can bypass that stormwater or we can take that stormwater arm and and deal with it in our project or with the project so what we're proposing to do is take that stormwater and it's roughly 1.3 acres along Easy Street 1.2 six acres kind of along Carmel and the north property adjacent to us we're taking that 2.6 acres roughly and we're going to collect it in our stormwater system through pipes and ditches and it's wales and we're going to detain it and then release it either into the groundwater through the filter or out - Packard Road depending on the size of the rain event correct we'd be
061addressing it on our site a very high level of confidence because our Basin is also going to become the lowest point when compared to the neighboring properties then was the five ranch-style homes along the Outer Ring still captured that's correct the 15-foot that's correct when it comes to you so some of the this proposal says you know we're gonna tear down a lot of trees but we're gonna plant five hundred seventy seven inches of trees along the perimeter to add provide screening to neighboring properties oh my microphone has been off I apologize the so so the five hundred seventy seven inches of trees that are proposed to be planted along the property line to act as screening to existing neighbors can you give us a sense of I guess how many trees that is what
062kind of species what kind of screening that's gonna actually provide especially you know year one all the way to your five to your 15 of this development just a bunch of saplings obviously that provides a lot less screening to neighbors then you know full evergreen I'm sorry to speak out of turn could you please put the the landscape plan up mr. Chang so that we can be referring to that so it's not just a verbal description but it actually Thank You commissioner give Randall when we turn attention to trees you are welcome to speak out of turn any time chemistry cube Randall is our resident Landscape Architect it's quite the encyclopedia on fauna species presentation I don't know if they have the site plans in general so my name is Tina fake some landscape architect
063with Midwestern consulting in general the the trees that are along the edges of the property are a mix of both deciduous and evergreen trees that are being proposed the intention for the higher number of evergreen trees is to provide you that screening that you're talking about and then also to have the deciduous trees along the edges to promote the kinetic canopy growth as you know as it gets a little bit farther along and then also to be more compatible with some of the trees that are being removed right now so as far as species that are along the edges another challenge that we have out there is that the Western property line the northern property line and half of the Eastern property line all have overhead utility lines along the edges of the property so
064species that were picked we tried to keep them relatively small so that they're not being cut down by dte in the future so a couple of the evergreen species that we have there are there's white spruce there's some arborvitae in a few select areas and then black Hill spruce which is a more dense kind of cousin I guess you could say to the white spruce but it doesn't get quite as tall or quite as large and so that helps with the overhead utility lines and then the deciduous species that are being proposed there's a few larger canopy trees but there's a decent number that are slightly smaller so they're kind of the American hornbeam and I'm just looking through here as I'm talking the Red Bud which is the smaller tree and I believe one
065second some serviceberry that those are I wouldn't say that those are large canopy trees those are more understory trees size-wise so they're they're only going to get probably 20 feet tall maybe only 15 to 20 feet wide so those are blocking kind of that lower view there are a few higher canopy trees but those are more centralized around the detention basins where they've got more space to grow and not be in conflict with the utility lines okay so that's that's very helpful the I guess knowing now that canopies gonna be more or less 20 feet a lot of places what's the change in elevation between the neighbors on Cranbrook the neighbors uneasy and then the proposed so I got it orient my easy street is the one to the west that grading there's not as
066much great change as there is to the north and to the east the grading that you show on there as soon assumes a certain amount of view out or walk out build houses so that grading there isn't necessarily that's kind of the grading that it would be at the time of construction and then as the houses get built you would be modifying the grading on each specific lock depending on what type of house is being built there and I can definitely have you know our engineer speak to that a little bit more in detail if you want to get more detailed on that yeah I guess I'm trying to assess you know the degree that this is gonna actually provide oh the treat versus the grading right so what's the angle from which neighbors on
067Cranbrook are easy we'd be looking down up at the houses and does a 20-foot tree protect that view shed and privacy if I can have your scroll to sheet ten there's a couple of cross sections of the site generally speaking our neighboring properties sit with them two three four feet finished grade two where we're gonna be with for our finished grade but sheep Ted if you scroll well that's section a a as north and south and section b b is east and west across the site one of the things we tried to do with our site also through the grading processes we do have detention basins to ask if a excavate soil out of and our goal was to have a balanced site here so that we're not talking a bunch of soil off site
068so with our project we're going to be placing those soils that we remove for our detention basins on our site which then gives us the opportunity to have view out type basements and in a lot of these Lots all right do you follow up I mean if this is a time to talk about the landscaping by shirts it's helpful to hear about the utility lines because that was one of my questions there too it seems pretty dense to me actually in terms of the buffer that's created there in terms of how they're planting it I would respectfully suggest you changed a western redcedar since there are a lot of deer here and the eastern red cedar is like candy to them so in terms of being able to prevent issues in the future you might
069consider on doing that and then just you know planting the big trees where you can I guess because you are so limited on the edges and so I hear you around the detention basin and things like that to be able to make sure you're maxing out the canopy the bigger canopy where where you're able to is the 15 foot buffer required as part of since your residential against residential or is that that's something that's additional yeah so that was one of the conditions that offered with the conditional rezoning to r1e was this 15-foot landscape buffer that's right and in the spirit of that conditional rezoning we're just maintaining that in the PUD version but it's not a conflicting land-use buffer per ordinance yeah I guess one other piece in regards to stormwater since we were
070also talking about that too is I've worked on several places in this neighborhood and groundwater is just a huge issue and so if there are basements here I'm assuming you're gonna have sump pumps in them and how does that kind of constant source of water interface with your stormwater in terms of where it's going how it's being out leaded I'm assuming it would go into your stormwater system and does that affect your calculations in terms of volumes and things like that I mean after a spring like this that we've all seen there's just been huge amount of water that all of us are living with and wasted I don't think many of us have seen before so I'm just wondering how that interfaces with your your stormwater in terms of said because I don't think
071there's a lot of basements in this neighborhood for a reason because it was I think once upon a time there was a lot of wetland here it got filled in and things like that so obviously there's the old part where the old house is but I'm just wondering if you all have anticipated the sump water that will likely happen once you dig the basements here yep so there's the simple answer is yes we are providing for ourselves to connect to our stormwater system via pipe as opposed to surface water flow with we would convey that water to the stormwater basins and that water would have the opportunity to infiltrate or you know depending on volume move on through the the pipes one of the things with building up the site a little bit from the
072excavational soils from the storm waters we get to sit our buildings a little higher than what they are on the surrounding sites which gives us an advantage to better address our basement floor - those groundwater depths I still think you're gonna run into it but I'm going to know where it's going seasonally I think we will have something pumps running to address some of those yeah and when you did your soil borings for this what season was it when you all did that in terms of getting your groundwater information we conducted I think three explorations and I'll get the dates for you here if your if your system has been sized to be able to handle it that's the important thing it's it's it's more just understanding that you know I think this is just
073gonna be the reality there and making sure the development is set up to be able to handle that not as I like oh geez we're so surprised by this but that it's some part and parcel of how you're designing how to manage it so that any basements wouldn't slide well they're staring at the dates I'm gonna tell you the dates on the soil borings were June of 2015 January and then I believe July is the last one right okay okay yeah that's what our engineer was confirming the other thing with that is the sandy soils also infiltrate beyond what the stormwater standards would allow meaning they're really good infiltration so we just can't take that benefit through the stormwater calculations so that water that would seasonally be there would likely infiltrate an urban where are
074the sandy soils roughly speaking on the well everywhere we have detention basins and then the cities the sandy soil continues kind of going to the northwest because generally speaking those quickly yeah right so you're basically digging down to be able to connect to sand seams that are there Sam seams that are there and above the groundwater that we've observed right okay all righty I will pivot back to mr. Ackerman thank you for letting me hijack your line of questioning know is very appreciated all right moving to traffic this isn't an item that was covered in the staff report it's something that we discussed at length in 2016 and 2017 could we just get a sense of traffic studies that have been conducted and what the findings were I'd look to staff in the developer I
075suppose my cool Midwestern consultant I did the traffic study back in 2016 for this and it has been you know updated with a slightly different housing model and the kind of the densification and housing type dropped the number of trips below fifty so as I understand it there wasn't a need for an additional further traffic study conditions at the driveway like everyone has already said you know it was difficult to turn out onto Packard and that would be the case for this driveway as well in terms of impacts to other intersections and a concern that a significant amount just because the number of units is really small so okay what are the intersection full movements in driveway so you'd have a left turn in you have a left turn right turn yep electrons that cause
076the most delay out yeah what have you explored any of the impacts of crosswalks in the area in terms of the left turn there's no crosswalk at the church as far as I understand oh I can render that one but okay any addition of traffic is going to be felt by the neighbors I appreciate that this in the grand scheme of the south east side of town is small but it's a change and that change has to be weighed so thank you the I just moving to the the demographics I guess when does a PUD call for the inclusion of affordable housing when is that a required public benefit to require when the proposed density exceeds the number of units allowed by the base zoning got it and since this is at par with the
077number of you this request is not asking for a higher density than the base zoning district permits understood okay yeah I don't there isn't a great answer on how new construction does or doesn't affect the housing market in Ann Arbor in the state of Michigan were limited in our ability to require affordable housing rezoning to PUD as an opportunity but when the ordinance asks for it I do think that the r1e or this type of housing is going to be a more affordable price point than r1c would have been you know you're talking the difference between a four and seven thousand square foot home which r1c provides and a two thousand square foot home which this provides that's small consolation when you're seeing you know you know 80 percent increase in the houses of new
078construction compared to your own I understand that and I think that if we did have the ability to save new development had to have affordable housing you jump on that opportunity but it's a function of state law and it's a function of living in a state with a fairly conservative legislature [Music] you know as we weigh all of this it's it's hard I want to I guess I want some firm facts on what the tree counts really are I mean that's what brought us to a lawsuit that's what brought us to today was to hang up in the number of trees and without firm understanding of what that is it's really hard to weigh anything else in balance so I guess that'll leave my thoughts and questions for now but it's this is improved over
079what what City Council and this Commission denied in the fall of 2017 but on balance it's it's still not clear measure wins I wanted to just go back briefly to the question about trees and this this the question I have is one which was mentioned by one of our speakers I believe it was a mr. Delaney and he I believe indicated that his property is on Cranbrook and the way it was described was the fact that there is a even with the 15-foot offset perhaps the Crown's of the larger trees in that area are going to possibly fall on his property I think if I'm getting the sense of that right so I guess this is a question for staff and it's also a question perhaps for the petitioner who is responsible for those trees
080should big branches or what-have-you fall onto the neighboring property I understand we have a big enough we're trying to have that space so that perhaps that can keep those kinds of situations from happening but if the crown is rigging up in the trees are big enough there should be issues so I don't know the petitioner wants to answer that question or if staff knows well generally speaking one of the benefits of this arrangement and particularly the fifteen-foot is that it would be memorializing the requirement to plant and maintain those trees for site plan compliance that's a distinction from those trees being located on individual Lots without an appurtenant restriction in that regard for the vast majority of properties as referenced during public comment there are no restrictions for removal of vegetation via landmark or Woodlands
081or anything else and so generally speaking I would anticipate this property probably results in a condominium arrangement of some sort there's probably going to be a kind of mininum association associated with that that association would determine the specific burden of maintenance of trees in those areas but to an extent from the city lens it doesn't matter by memorializing those trees on the site plan the property was going to have to maintain them to be compliant so so it's probably a better this type of plan provides more assurance that they will be maintained and gives the city some leverage to say that if a tree is not maintained then it's in violation of a site plan and corrective action enforcement action can be taken but that's as far as probably staff can address it if the
082property owner knew more specifics of how that arrangement might happen they could potentially respond to it but again from a site plan perspective they will have to be maintained regardless of how that responsibility is divvied amongst a condo association or individual owners did you have a comment if I could there will be a homeowner's association this will be a site condo the individual unit owners or a lot owners will be responsible as the first person or responsible party to replace trees maintain trees on their lot if it is not maintained in the proper fashion then the homeowners association would have the opportunity to replant or maintain the trees that would be on those Lots so this is a little bit so this is a homeowner's association as opposed to a condo association because is the
083property owned by everyone who lives in the area or is it individually the Lots are individually owned the units the homes will be owned by individuals and they're part of a condominium that would have a homeowner's association which would have that each of the units would be a part of okay I'm just trying to look forward since the question was here and in terms of the the gentlemen it sounds like on one hand we're saying you'll be able to contact this homeowners association or or would it be the individual home owner that if I were and I had issues with trees or trees being maintained I would talk to the neighbor and probably the homeowners association there's two lines to get to the person responsible for that mm-hmm and if I could just mention real
084quickly I think one of the charts on sheet 27 which compares the alternative analysis across the different project plans and analysis kind of gets at what Zack was talking about about comparing those trees with the PUD versus the area plan versus the site plan so if you wanted to take a look at that sheet yep and there's a summary calculation on previous sheet to that and then I have a similar kind of a question in terms of the maintenance of the the water and the sewage and the water that's coming across the property and you know the public benefit as you've indicated is the fact that you're going to be taking in some of the water that would previously perhaps have caused some issues in the surrounding properties and now you're going to be sort
085of gathering it all up and helping it to get to our to our storm water system so who maintains that because we're assuming that infrastructure will be great but if something happens and it's got to be fixed our storm water system is a private system out letting to the public system and Packard Road so our private system would have a drainage district associated with it and it would be a responsibility the homeowners association than the county through the drainage district would take care of anything that didn't get resolved mm-hmm okay so the interesting thing seems to be that with this particular PUD the actual folks who end up paying for this PUD will be the future homeowners as opposed to the developer is that is that accurate or have I kind of simplified I'm sorry
086mister Heisler is reminding me that the county will a part of the agreement is that the county would be reviewing the stormwater system annually to make sure that it's up to up to par with what was approved and I think your statement was that are the people that buy into this PUD gonna then be responsible for maintaining that system that is correct through the homeowners association okay there'll be a fee to that association for things road maintenance sidewalks store powering those types of things okay and so does that then increase that price point that someone mentioned earlier in terms of what these units are going to be costing always that all built into what was the figure someone said five hundred thousand or something okay all right and say the figure five hundred thousands totally
087erroneous if you wouldn't mind oh sure Jim Heisler Peters building developer petitioner yeah five hundred thousand could someone pay that much for it I guess but that's not what we believe they will sell for okay at this point I don't know where that number came from what do you believe they don't feel so far they will go somewhere between 350 to 450 which was number someone else stated which is the one I've stated publicly okay as far as how the ongoing maintenance affects the price it affects the package but usually they'll be competitive or similar to other areas with similar restrictions and similar requirements obviously the more requirements the more costs this one has some pretty stringent ones on trees and stormwater and that type of thing I think the stormwater will be a little
088better than most people think because there is a fair amount of sand which will help very good sand and a good portion of it it's capped by clay but underneath it'll be pretty good the trees and how you maintain those and the perpetuity of some of this will be an ongoing expense that they have to plan for as an association so it doesn't become a burden because that affects the value of house if there is a deferred maintenance or deferred fee that everybody thinks might come up so we will be pretty diligent working with the arborist and the landscape architects and how much this will cost and it'll be there to answer what that price is today I do not know but it's we've done 20 about 20 of these type of developments will work
089down through it and we obviously want to sell them and it's got to be competitive for similar developments thank you my shirt you down um I have a few things to say but my biggest question which is keyed a little bit by the this memo we received today from the parks department and the Natural Area preservation department with a bunch of questions about the maintenance plan and that's sort of the general gist of my my concern is we have these trees especially I think the burr Oaks and some of the really impressive forest fragment trees that are native to the region and I think at our work session Commissioner give Randal actually made a really strong and convincing case that really having a plan to protect those and allow those to regenerate would be a
090real benefit above and beyond just counting trees and really thinking about what the species are and how we're protecting them and so I'm wondering one if we can talk a little bit more about what that plan looks like right now and how confident we can be that those trees especially those those components of the original native forest fragment are going to be maintained in a way over the long term that we can actually realize that benefit so the natural features maintenance plan was added to the last sheet of the site plan and I'm not sure which natural areas preservation memo you received today the last one I got I want to say was maybe a week week and a half ago okay I'm gonna come back to that because I need to read that a
091little bit more in general the way this maintenance plan language is set out is the first section of it talks about the responsibility who's responsible at different times for implementing this maintenance planning continuing it on so at the pre-construction and construction stage it's really on the the owner and the developer to follow through with those and then as the property gets handed over the homeowners association the responsibilities in turn turn over to the individual owners on the site and the homeowners association to kind of follow through if there's difficulty with the owners so that's what's outlined in that responsibility section of this maintenance plan in the pre-construction section of it that is really going into doing site assessment out there to figure out the condition of the trees before construction starts just because we don't
092know quite when the construction would actually move forward and then also putting in your protection measures like your tree protection fencing to protect out clearing areas things like that and then there's two other sections of tree protection and maintenance section and then there's an invasive species control section so the tree protection area talks about during construction how you do your clearing near those trees what kind of pruning you would do to those trees while you're out there to give them the best possible success I guess you could say while the constructions going on around them there has been a little bit back and forth with with the forestry and it looks like now with the natural areas preservation where we can incorporate you know different comments into there some was like painting the well the
093Oaks if they if the limbs got lint sorry and then in the construction section of it doing digging differently in that area versus other areas of the site so that's kind of standard construction items and then a little bit more above and beyond what we would normally have on a soil erosion control plan and then for the post construction section of it we do have we talked a little bit about how you can maintain those areas in the first three or four years and then after that what we're recommending is then they would need to have a certified arborists and a landscape contractor come out there and assess them again after time and figure out what the most appropriate long-term maintenance of those trees is is because we we can see what they look like
094now we can see what they look like post construction and then we don't want to develop a you know a long term plan without really understanding what the needs are those trees as they move forward and seeing what kind of growth we have coming from seedlings or sprouts or things like that so there are some specific details outlined for the first few years and then after that it's saying that the homeowners association needs to develop a long term plan and provide that provide a copy of it to the city so it's it's a mix of both giving you what we can do short term and then establishing a way to move forward in a long term manner as far as the invasive species control that's kind of the same thing we know what under understory
095is out there right now we know how we'll deal with it during construction and propose a three year plan for dealing with the invasive the primarily or Bhatia's invasive species that are underneath those trees right now but we don't know what's going to come back so again it's the kind of thing where you gonna say it's a three year plan and then after that they would have to develop a you know a longer term invasive species control pan dependent on what species are actually still out there and what kind of comes in afterwards as far as specific to the ones coming from today how will the okra sprouts being nurtured we did add in I'm gonna have to see if I can find it in here there is a note in here that talks about
096trying to preserve any reefs Prout's of the Baroque or the Oaks that are coming in there I can look and see if I can find that for you we don't say that they'll be caged at this point in time those are items that we could investigate a little bit further before you know it goes to the City Council kind of thing and develop that into there as far as the follow-up treatment for the glyphosate it would be so that's that's a treatment that you're doing to the invasive species basically roundup we're not proposing a mass spraying of the area because this is underneath the root canopy of these other trees so what we're doing is we're saying you're going to mow the majority of the invasive species that are out there because as you mow
097them you won't get as many seeds that are going and landing in the ground and it's going to cut down the vegetation it won't thrive as well because it's being mowed and then it's it's more painting on the existing vegetation as opposed to an overall spraying out there because we don't want to affect the roots of the actual trees that are out there as well so that's a little bit different than if it was a site where you didn't care about trying to keep the the understory in the canopy trees but it would be follow-up treatment in the same way where you would continue to mow it and then as needed you would apply the herbicide directly to the plants as opposed to doing a mass sprain of the area so that we're really trying
098to keep it to the invasive species the natural features areas how much will be mowed so on this plan you can see there's these hatched areas that's the intended areas for this maintenance plan and so those would be the areas that are mowed probably not between the attached houses I would imagine that because of the location of that homeowners you're probably going to maintain that in a different manner than they would maintain kind of more of the common areas so that probably wouldn't need to get be mowed but technically it's part of the plan I would assume that people are going to manage that a little bit differently than some of the other more open areas on the site hand pulling and foliar spraying we can definitely look at I'm not familiar with triclopyr I
099can definitely look at that and see you know if that makes more sense versus the glyphosate and then we talked the hand pulling is definitely an option in later years but for that first year hand pulling is would be very onerous that's the majority of that under store right now is invasive species from an herbaceous plant from ground cover perspective the majority of it is invasive species right now so doing a hand pulling of that would be very difficult so at least I would say the first year that you're going to need to do an actual herbicide application and then as you move forward again it's an iterative process you have to kind of respond to what comes back and so that's why hand pulling is mentioned but it's not a primary a primary way
100that we're doing it they're proposing it right now and then as far as how long has actively managed the invasive species control has a three year time span and then it says that you know if we're not there's two different percentages I believe let me flip to the second page here there's percentages in here identified where we say a certain percentage of the area needs to be free of invasive species and if you're not meeting that within the three year plan then it continues on so ideally we would be able to get it down to see it says what is ten percent of the total coverage of the site or of the natural features preservation areas would less than ten percent would be invasive species so that's the goal and if you haven't met that
101in the three years and it needs to continue on all right so that was a lot thank you for going into the OL that detail because I think that helped answer a lot of the questions I suspect another Commissioner might have some follow-ups on that so I won't go down the rest of my list other than to just know no one liked the the fact that this is a beauty gives us the opportunity to even have this sort of long term agreement about that gets really specific about what we're talking about taking care of over time and putting that responsibility on the condom enemy Association if we rezone this to our when seeing got a pyrite development in here and got four thousand square-foot houses very different story and and the likelihood of getting this
102long-term commitment would be much less so I do want to acknowledge that I that is a real potential benefit I'd also want to be careful that we're actually realizing the benefit because I think that combined with the storm water above them beyond capture relative to sort of what we're asking for with this beauty which is just to allow some units to be attached or not getting increased density we're not getting buildings higher than they could be otherwise with by right with the underlying zoning we're not they're not the only thing we're really getting with the beauty is the ability to attach units to each other and so I want to like I think there's needs to be a balance in terms of what the public benefit is but I think if we actually get a
103real long-term commitment to protecting this forest fragment a lot allowing it to regenerate over time that we're confident will be realized that gives me some confidence that that's worth worth doing but I need to have that confidence so I'll leave the rest of my comments for now in case somebody wants to focus in on this plan chemistry Brandel thank you for everybody letting me interrupt your flow here miss fix if you could come back up again a couple of questions one is you talked about mowing could you talk about the kind of what you're you know we mow our lawns every week this time of year because they're you know growing so fast but what like what's what's the pattern of the mowing in order to be able so we're balancing the the whole idea
104of regeneration of these Oaks right and if you just mow all the time then the little Oaks aren't going to grow up so what is the the pattern of the mowing that both controls the invasive species yet at the same time encourages the the young Oaks that are part of this genetic heritage of these huge old trees to allow to grow so part of this plan is to identify where some of those sprouts are coming up so I think it would be key as the mowing moves forward to know where those are and to not over them as far as mowing of the invasive species are concerned that's probably two or three times a year as opposed to a weekly kind of a maintenance okay and then another thing that perhaps could be worked into
105this is that we have an excellent group within our city called the natural areas preservation group which manages these kind of areas all the time and perhaps there's some way through the plan to be able to have some ongoing consultation with them as to how things are going because not every arborist kind of gets all the herbaceous stuff and is necessarily looking at the ecosystem health they're looking at tree health and this group is is really fabulous with that they've been doing this all over the city for a long time they have a lot of knowledge and Majin here around working with an arborist and submitting plans to the sitting on an annual basis which i think is great but if there's some way to work in their naps evaluation as well I think that
106they really would be an excellent organization for you to be able to work with because they're gonna help they have so much expertise they're going to be able to help you be way more targeted and successful with how you get this area to regenerate because for me these old trees are amazing but they're not going to last forever and part of the point for me personally is that they have the ability to regenerate and that's what we really want is to be able to provide the continuance of their genetic legacy over time so that people in that hour or two hundred years from now have a chance to be able to see what those burr Oaks are like from when this first plate this was first settled here so I think it's really important that
107you all have kind of a quality assurance in there in terms of working with the city and the excellent organization that we have that could really help guide you and be more targeted about what your protocols could end up being and I realized this with the homeowners association and they're just going to have to know what they're signing up for I think and that's thing that can be part of the master deed in terms of how you know what what that group is responsible for many homeowners associations have you know responsibilities and this one is a little bit different and it's again I agree with the Commissioner Trudeau this gives us the ability otherwise you know we have ordinances that allow for all these trees to be cut down and for them to mitigate all
108of them and that would be a tragedy for me this allows us to have a lot more control to be able to encourage the ability for these trees to be able to proliferate over the long haul which is something that's important to me I would also be careful about reaching the ten percent threshold invasiveness because they can just spread their seed all over again and so I think more of the ongoing assessment from nap may be the way to go with some of this because if it's the wrong kind of ten percent then you can lose it all over again so I but it's too hard to list out every contingency in here and so knowing that there's just some way to be able to have interaction with a group of very knowledgeable people that
109could help guide the homeowners association in the future in terms of protecting this legacy that is something that we all are part of in the city of Ann Arbor commissure Mills while we're on this I think I concur that this is the primary benefit that we're seeing of this I think that the you know the actual number of trees is quite comparable to what we saw in the initial area plan but thank you for pointing out that chart by the way that was really helpful I think that the idea of planning the screening that was what's required in the underlying r1e with conditions anyway so that's not really an additional benefit the same with like the water this is what we saw before so I think that this is this is the key benefit I
110have others that I think could be provided but what I'm concerned about is that what I'm curious to hear from staff is how is this enforced because if this is the benefit what happens if those Oh shoots sprouts whatever they're called are not protected and they're just mowed over with everything else like what's the recourse and who's going to go out and check that so if this is the benefit that's being offered I want to have some kind of assurance that we're actually going to see it come to fruition and so how is it enforced and what happens if it's not happening there may be a couple of ways I just thinking out loud is one before they even got to see of OHS we would make sure that they're adhering to the site plan
111but it's primarily probably going to be complaint driven so if we receive complaints from their own homeowners association that's out of compliance then it's out of compliance with the site plan and the Supplemental regulations so then staff probably myself or somebody on Planning Commission or I'm sorry and the Planning Department would then start enforcement that they're not keeping up their end of the bargain and what would enforcement look like the ones that's already built we do have the option of writing tickets of course we're hoping that they cooperate with us before we get to that level I mean we'd probably start off with some violation letters what's go out we'd do an inspection violation letters hopefully it's corrected at that point if not then you could get into the ticket writing but it rarely does
112it get down go down that road we might also be able to explore some other models we we do have some as was referenced during the testimony previously there are some requirements for storm water systems for regular reports to be submitted to the Water Resources commissioner my instinct is that we could likely look to build in some potential ongoing reporting requirement one of the things that would be helpful for advice wise from this board is is their term - that is it indefinite that that would be helpful to know we I don't know what the terminology of that is but we could work with staff to find out what the information that would be helpful for that on an ongoing basis and then I don't say it that I would apply the same but we
113could also potentially look at similar to our premium requirements that we provide premium benefits if you meet LEED certification if you don't do that there's a financial penalty that could potentially be a means to add an additional enforcement mechanism into PUD regulations beyond the normal infraction of city code so from my perspective if this is the primary benefit that this is offering above and beyond what's what I see is already required and I think that that's really really important I think I would want to know from any from that like what the what means they have I mean I don't know if bonding for this is something you know like a performance bond or whatever it's called where you I don't know I work in wind energy put down something so that you don't hurt
114the roads you get your money back if you you know as long as you don't scrape the road so that in my mind is really really important then that's got to be rock-solid if there that there's questions right now from nap makes me I'll be 100% I can't vote for this tonight affirmative ly like at the very least that would need to be postponed so I would if this is the primary benefit of this then I want to make sure that they're on board with the plan that they know that it's enforceable that there is real teeth to it it not if it's not being followed through I think that's really important the other thing particularly as it relates to the invasive species and maybe this is where I was confused before there was talk
115about the the first the first recourse would be to the the homeowners but when we're talking if something about trees you first go to the neighbor and then you go to the homeowners association but we're we're talking about this natural areas these aren't on private property right that it's on it's on the communally owned land so that still then what then it goes directly to the homeowners association right okay that's true too between these attached units in the middle like that's not anybody's backyard that's all common area right association homeowners association sorry okay very good things so I I think that that's really really important and there's something about you know I just that I think that that needs to be tightened up that being said I think that there are other benefits that we
116could see here that that are much more enforceable in the short term like that if you do this then you get your certificate of occupancy and you're done like there not this ongoing maintenance so I think it's helpful to acknowledge that the one thing that was brought up already was the affordable housing contribution and yes it's it's no it's not exceeding what the current density is but the r1c density would have been 46 units and so it just so happens that 10% of the you know the addition of that is what would be required if we were if we were looking at that our 1c comparing it to our 1c and so I think there's space for being able to make a contribution to the or to dedicate five of those units to as affordable
117units I think that's one option the other option that I didn't hear a lot of people in the audience discussing today but that was in our packet a lot was talking about exceeding energy efficiency requirements particulate or just energy requirements and I think that that is something that certainly ticks the box for a PUD and to see a development that is entirely solar ready or knowing that we're trying to go for for good tree canopy at least identifying those places where it's unlikely to be shaded and making those units solar ready I think again would show that's something that you can build right in from the beginning and you can show when you get your certificate of occupancy that you've ticked that box or the other thing that came up a lot in the comments
118that I am increasingly thinking is a good way to move is towards all making sure that everything is all electric I currently have a gas furnace as well as most people probably do but if we're serious about climate change we can't be using that natural gas in the long haul and so at least wiring things so that you can have electric heating units is really important and so that's something that you could build in now that would be a public benefit where I could see this as getting a you know when you build it then there's no need for this long-term maintenance plan necessarily though it would be great to have multiple benefits of this and others may have a different feeling about which of those benefits is most beneficial so I think I think
119that there are potential benefits that could be built in here I'm not convinced that the I think the maintenance plan for the Natural Area is plausible but it's not there's too many potential holes in it right now I don't think it's enforceable enough and so I'm not comfortable with it as is the other question that I had is this memo Chris that we got from the senior project engineer that effectively told us like this should not be scheduled for Planning Commission until these actions have been addressed I'm have they been addressed yet these comments came out a little late as you can see by the by the date but having discussions with them it's it's I don't think these are issues that they couldn't handle before it went on to City Council but sounds like
120we can probably get them addressed if it does get postponed and come back with these being addressed great ok so just wanted to note that these are outs names so you you know regardless of if people also think that we should postpone this like there are there should be some stipulation on this thank you sure Dale and Sherwood's thank you so I was also leaning towards a postponement to get some more clarification on this long-term maintenance plan and the enforceability and if Knapp needs to be involved finding out what they think about this and how they see being involved with it because I think it has to be I can't like it'd be very easy for just this to be let go and eventually we notice her we don't notice and then there's really no
121penalty so I do I and I had also agreed some kind of financial penalty above and beyond simple zoning compliance would make sense if this is the benefit we're gonna see just to clear my plate of other points I wanted to make without I've been weighing thinking about this one is we we have to make decisions with the ordinances we have not the ordinances we wish we have so there are a lot of things I would love to see I would love to see affordable housing contributions I'd love to see us moving to as a city that's electrifying an anticipation of all of the energy transitions we will be needing to make if we're going to address the climate crisis seriously those those aren't the ordinances we have here but I think those are things
122that we need to start talking about in terms of affordability I think if this was rezone Darwin see the there would be fewer houses and then be a lot bigger and they would be a lot more expensive and if you know or and where nothing would be financially viable because we just somehow can't find a way that we like something can be built that a developer can actually raise money to pay for which then nothing would happen which maybe some people would be perfectly happy with but then that has an affordability impact as well because the people who would be buying and moving into these homes are going to live somewhere and if they can afford a $400,000 home they're gonna buy the next best thing and we can't make people go away just by
123not building houses and so as a city as a hold as the region as a whole if we don't allow development where we've identified we want development to happen which is in the freeway within the freeway ring in place we've zoned for development then we're gonna be digging that hole even deeper and so I think in terms of character and how things fit in like I live in a neighborhood that has an SRO right next door and duplexes on my block and small apartment building across the street and a whole bunch of single-family homes and I think it's great I think a lot of people would be perfectly happy living in a mix of some attached townhouses and some single-family homes I don't think having some diversity of housing type is bad and it leads
124to a diversity of different kinds of people with different kinds of preferences which I view as a value and a benefit and not a homogeneous neighborhood where everything's exactly the same is class-based segregation and I don't think that's a good thing either and so I'm happy to let the houses be attached to each other I don't think that's a huge reach in terms of the character of the neighborhood and I think these are gonna be smaller than what we would see these homes would be smaller than what we would see if we reverted to the adjacent zoning it once something was built at all in terms of being green and sustainable one of the ways we get to and and also dealing with traffic is one of the ways we do what we're causing traffic
125is by not adding a lot of homes we were from in the Reata regional scale we're at building a historically low rates it doesn't feel that way but it's true and I can show you the data if you're curious and so people are moving farther and farther away and we're still adding jobs we're still adding the University is still growing those are things that are out of our control but what is in our control is how we manage how things are built and how much is built and so if we don't want people driving lots of lots of miles on a rose and clogging our streets building homes closer to where they're going to is one way to reduce the amount of time cars are spending on the roads I saw in cotton some of
126the comments we receive that we shouldn't expect people spending 350 to 450 thousand dollars on a house to be taking the bus and as somebody who spent about $350,000 on a house I take the bus I ride my bike we have a car we we have one car for our household we drive it less than five thousand miles a year we went without a car for about a year people will make that choice and this is I have a lot of friends who live along Packard and one of the reasons I choose to live long Packard is the bike lane is great and it's a great way to get into town so just because it wouldn't be for you doesn't mean it's not for anybody and just because that person might have slightly different preferences
127and what you would choose doesn't mean they're gonna be a bad neighbor and so I just want to push back a little bit on the assumptions about what will happen here over the long haul and I think the alternative is either nothing gets built or we build much less and we have more traffic people are driving many more miles and we're going to harder and harder time sustaining the city both environmentally and financially to handle that infrastructure and handle moving people around um so anyway those though that's those were kind of all the things I was weighing as I was like thinking about this I really care a lot about the sustainability and affordability aspect and it's complicated and it did kind of how you think about it depends on how far you zoom out
128like if you look at just this one block your perspective is going to be a little bit different than if you zoom out to the broader area of the city of the ward the city as a whole and and sort of the job shed of where people are coming from but I am happy to consider a postponement especially to get feedback on nap and or potentially see a reconsideration of what the public benefit mix is to get past that hurdle Thanks Commissioner woods I'm going to the side of the room my comments going to be short indeed I actually would want a little bit more information about that house that was the older farmhouse that was mentioned I was doing a little math here and it looks like it's about a hundred and seventy nine
129years old that's pretty old that's got me by a few years not many you know but seriously maybe what does it hurt to have a little bit more information and I certainly would like to have that and so if that's possible let's let's add that to the list as well so thank you Commissioner Ackerman den Briggs then survey them whether we well first I appreciate having colleagues like you all I think a postponement makes a lot of sense I think they're outstanding issues also just so I appreciate that I was actually going to move a postponement if there are other comments for what we should consider during that time happy to wait but at some point I soon I'd love to make that motion I will be sure to come back to you mr. Briggs
130yeah so can on the plan here I don't see the existing house where it's situated could that point it out okay and so when that comes that is there's a detention basin right right adjacent to it correct I just don't see the house actually listed on the the current site plan it's just right over there okay okay so in terms of what comes next my understanding is that this you do not have in this house currently do you mind coming up do you mind yeah do you mind coming up here for just a second so it sounds like there has been maybe a little progress from the neighborhood in terms of making some contact with that homeowner do you have would you have any interest in purchasing that home if it became available for sale
131I don't know so your plan in perpetuity is to your your hope is that that that house would remain there or that it just sold separately how what would happen if that how does that interact with your plan long as it didn't delay it I it's fine if it goes down the road or you know it's preserved or whatever they decided to do with it but it is not part of my agreement mm-hmm or is it part of the thing before that stuff before you okay it so it was a previous it's like no never has okay just curious not from day one okay thanks I think that's okay for you the question right now so I mean I guess in terms of how we're able to move forward with this you know if there
132is an opportunity to it's hard for me to understand even though I really really respect your fight for this house and the historic preservation element of it I mean I think it's it's really a it's really important it's hard for me to understand how we integrate that into what we're doing even though I see it as a very worthwhile goal for our community and so you know if has staff considered opportunities for this in the past if that were to become available is that something that's come up in discussion the only discussion that I've had is with the the parks department and just we can get more detail but there's been no application for them to formally look into this but from the initial discussions there probably is not going to be a lot of
133interest but we can explore that further is there precedent in terms of previous projects that have happened in town in terms of how something like this might have been integrated in I can't think of one off the top of my head okay do you have any ideas having curious I mean in terms of I think parks may be our best hope that maybe possibly cobblestone but yeah you know we can we can definitely get back we could get back with more information okay so I mean in terms of what I'm hearing even though I feel like this is really worthwhile is whether it's a lack of imagination on our part which is completely possible we may need some help in terms of thinking about how to make that move forward quickly but otherwise it it
134may be a separate longer-term effort to make sure that that preservation happens regardless of what happens on this site I wanted to make sure I address that because you've been coming very persistently so Ethan this has been something that you've been advocating for for a long time in terms of some of the other issues that I heard that came up a lot of them related to congestion and traffic speeds and I I don't want to dismiss those because I know that they are really legitimate concerns but I in many ways there will be I don't think the choice is whether or not there's development here or not I think there's there's going to be development here it's just kind of the nature of what happens and so that is something that is going to continue
135to be an issue and how we impact how we integrate and address those issues in my opinion have a lot less to do with this development a lot more to do with what we do with our transportation plan which is also being updated right now and also advocacy on the part of your neighborhood to be looking for measures along that corridor that would slow traffic asking counsel to be investing in measures and initiatives that will slow traffic along that that is these are traffic tools that we have at our disposal that we're not using in our community right now and there's a pretty big debate about whether or not they should be used and so I hope that on that issue you continue to fight and continue to suggest that that that's something that needs
136to be done in terms of this project that is in front of us I'm struggling because I'm there's just the desire to push this back to the comparison between the old plan and but as I read our PUD requirements it's very hard for me to see how this as it is situated even if we have more a greater protection long term protection for these natural features that are existing in the plan it doesn't to me yet feel like it meets the merit of a PUD I see how it's much better than the previous plan but I don't know that that's exactly what the comparison that I'm supposed to be making this is this is a different proposal that's coming in front of me and does it meet that proposal however it's challenging not to support
137it because the alternative that is likely to exist if we don't support it is not likely to be as good and so we're not faced with you know regardless of whether it's blackmail or not there's the reality of what we want to see moving forward and this is not my ideal I would be interested to see some of those other pieces that come forward in terms of protecting I would like to see something come back that has additional benefits I don't I think there are substantial additional benefits that you could put in here in terms of sustainability I don't get the sense that you're going to be inclined towards an affordability that's why and I think there's whole list of things in our that you could be working towards that would make it a lot
138easier to support this that add additional benefits I see some but I'd like if this is about natural features I think there should be more natural features preserved here than what we have right now so that's where I'm at right now commissioner so they in the queue I mean I appreciate all of the comments so I can keep it a bit brief because I think my thoughts have a hat tip to Commissioner to do especially for impacting a lot of the references to the larger scale and I think that's what I've been kind of battling with with what this PUD is for a public benefit and I kind of three that are bullet pointed in this condition of the management of stormwater off-site neighbors that's one that's its stormwater management to neighboring private property this
139doesn't feel like a large public benefit as something to handle and so thinking of public that a more significant scale and so the natural features and just the fabric of the forest in this area I think is something significant to be looked at and I think that maintenance plan is something I would support but postponement to make sure that we have that tightened up to pursue I do think even looking at the proposed housing typology and the comments about the solar ready design I would request that we see something if we go to postponement about the assessment of solar access on each of these parcels and if the design of these homes could actually lean towards an assessment of solar ready so because especially in the middle if we do not have a large canopy
140because of powerlines and clearing and trees we may have access for a lot more solar gain on these roofs if the roofs were designed in a different way than the current typology presented so I think there is some creative thinking that we can request on this to get a larger environmental impact and sustainability and issues on the project so that would be something that I would want to see pursued if this was postponed and then comes back to us sure whether be make it a full house here I agree kind of with what everybody has said one of the things that kind of popped into my head was for a maintenance plan you know we look at an affordable housing in like 10 year 15 year 99 year I would love to see a maintenance
141plan for 99 years on this site is that realistic long term maybe not but maybe it is for 40 years enough to get one of those Oh saplings actually functional and I think one of the things that I look on this I had a conversation with someone a co-worker of mine today who is is just put an offer on a condo quite close to this site and it was it's a really nice condo it was built in 1994 it was the one that she could afford and it came in at a pretty decent price and when I looked at it it was an expensive luxury condo in 1994 but today because we're now 1994 was not that long ago to me but it 20-some years down the road [Laughter] you know that became the housing
142that is a much more affordable compared to what's built now and so I think we do have to look at that of what we're looking for and especially on this side is is maybe now tomorrow or next year but we're looking at I think we do need some housing in the future that will be accessible to people that will be older housing at some point in the future and I think as other people have discussed you know we we want look at these trees not just these trees because these trees will at some point have outlived their their life but what what is that the next tree that comes in and so we can't do that if there's nothing there and so that's I you know I I will certainly support a postponement but I
143think that's one of the things that I'm thinking of is not so much even for for me I know when I look at things around my house it's always like well how does this affect me but I have to think in my head of like how does this affect the next me and and how do i you know how do i reconcile that too and it's not always easy those two things aren't always easy and and I admire the neighbors for caring because I think that's really important and that will carry you through whatever happens on this site you know you have a great neighborhood and great neighbors and and I think that's really the important part mr. Leonard so I'm taking notes about follow up and I I just want I guess I want
144to pose a question maybe potentially both to the Planning Commission into the petitioner I think the petitioner has been fairly focused on faithfulness to the current maximum density allowed by the site a question to both the Planning Commission and to the petitioner would there be any flexibility in adding more attached product that could potentially open up space for restoration retention of that historic home on site or other natural features I understand that you don't own it but mr. hi sir if you could step up to the microphone we've spent over three years working on this we've met the requirements as far as we're concerned you can argue both ways we're committed to the density the layout and vote next month period we'll take your things under consideration but we will respectfully disagree we've met the
145requirements you've set the rules we didn't so it's great to want some things like all-electric house I don't know how many you live in all-electric house I don't even know what to design - I have all the criteria those houses the ones we started with we've worked a long time to get there so I'm not changing the whole plan I mean I'll answer your questions but I'll expect the vote because we respectfully disagree on some fundamental things that I'm trying to work with everybody and that's what we're trying to do we came here in good faith with this plan trying to get back to what everyone and saying was the initial area plan and where it was voted we try to get there but we're not redesigning something that I spent hundreds of thousands of
146dollars with the rules you've set before me and I'm just so before we move to postponement the only thing I'd like to add in regards to the maintenance plan so in a typical transaction when a homeowner buys a new construction property what ends up happening is the developer by state law has to provide the master need and bylaws to a to a potential home buyer Wow either before they sign the purchase agreement or after they sign a purchase agreement they have nine days to review and if during those nine days they're not satisfied with what they see there they often just you know they they can back out or they can move forward the issue is is that with the maintenance plan this could be a major expense to to the homeowners in this development
147and I'm sure it will be somewhere in that book which is the master deed and bylaws very deep in there and honestly it could even be in the first two pages but the reality is the number of homebuyers who will actually open up that big book and read through it is I can probably say the percentage of that is in single digits so what I'd like to see potentially in the in maintenance plan development agreement somewhere in there that there be a separate document that's provided to homebuyers that maybe will catch their attention a little bit more than it buried in a master deed and bylaws for a neighborhood so I'd like to add that too to the list as well and with that I will head over to Commissioner Ackerman for a motion to
148postpone thank you I would move to postpone to a date set by staff and do we have a seconder by Commissioner Mills any discussion on the postponement all those in favor to postpone please say aye opposed it is postponed thank you we are now moving on to audience participation this is an opportunity for anybody in the audience to address the Planning Commission in regards to any item you can speak to us for up to three minutes all you'll have to do state your name and address for the record and you'll have up to three minutes to speak to us about anything at all sorry just testing payable give me 27:20 Cranbrook over the years since we've been in our house I did some research on it and our complex our subdivision was built over top
149of a swamp and that is a reason for a lot of our flooding that we have the idea that these people when it comes to the project are going to raise theirs up worries me that things may flow into our neighborhood even more I understand that they have the retaining water system and stuff but it makes me uneasy that's all I have to say thank you Brian Taylor 2814 Cranbrook I do want to thank all of you for your concerns and for I appreciate your a journeying this for so you can get a more clear idea about you know what is going to be the specifics of a maintenance plan I think that's really important I think that when you're turning something over to a homeowners association that there's ample room for there to be
150misunderstandings and I'm very impressed with the specifics that you're asking for so I appreciate that and I do want to reiterate I think it's very unfortunate to have some sort of a pressure over your head that intimidation to intimidate you and I don't think that's appropriate whatsoever thank you thank you yeah the question I think I'd like you to consider is there have been lots of things said about how they're going to look out for the neighborhood and all that kind of stuff but they aren't policing the trees on the perimeter of the property right now branches fall in your yard and unless you want to go over and pick a fight with him about it you know you clean it up I would think that if they really had wished to get along with
151the neighborhood they'd be policing the trees along the borders right now and not letting the branches fall in people's yards thank you thank you mrs. Taylor 2814 Cranbrook I appreciate so much your wisdom Shannon about the nap and I really don't want any herbicides on the property and of course if Knapp talks to them they'll do a regulated burn instead if if this has to happen or whatever they'll do something I don't want any more chemicals we've the whole neighborhood's dealing with cancer so thank you thank you hi I'm back Karen white the house it seems to date from 1849 the property was originally owned by Charles and Ezra Maynard the maynard's sold it to Moses Collins Moses Collins set aside ten acres and sold that to his son in 18-49 the son of Moses
152Collins that sons wife and their infant child were living in the house it is one of the oldest houses in mallets Creek settlement predates lots of other stuff it is one of the very few original houses left in mallets Creek and I think it is entirely possible to move it to cobblestone farm it is something we've been talking about amongst the local preservation group for several years and we would be much further along in the process if we had been allowed access to the house to document it to get serious about what it was going to take to move it and who could move it and raising the funds to do that I look forward to having more conversations about that house it's totally doable thank you thank you if you haven't already had a
153chance to walk the property I'd like to invite you I live on easy street and please walk the property see what everybody's talking about because I'm on Carmel and that back property along caramel has a huge slope to it so if we're talking about asking me excavating or anything I'm inviting all of you to come and walk that property okay thank you thank you Easy Street 289 thank you very much I so appreciate your comments your wisdom the comment by mr. Latta to perhaps change the plan tweak it a bit I find it very disingenuous that the petitioner refuses to do any of that but thank you so much thank you thanks for your thoughtful discussion and clearly echoing many of the concerns that were voiced by the group here I think a postponement it's
154a great idea I appreciate your choosing that I think the focus on enforcement and the real thoughtfulness around how it would actually work and making sure that promises aren't empty it's really critical and it requires a lot of diligence and it sounds like that's going to happen hopefully the idea that someone threw out about actually having more attached properties sounds like an exciting variation and I know the petitioner is saying they don't want to change their plans but this is this is the dirty negotiation and back in fourth and the city wants something back for the PUD and that that could actually create more of the type of environment that we're looking for we're actually more natural features are preserved and and the overall ambiance of the thing becomes better so I think I think
155a little more exploration as to what this is going to look like instead of a CLE cutter subdivision with over slightly oversized houses crammed into small Lots is is worthy of pursuit and and thanks for trying to get more for the PUD and I understand that they all you know Scott you were very articulate about what many of you about what are the alternatives we're living and we're not living an ideal world we're living with choices and I don't I don't have the insight as to what the alternatives actually are but at least I appreciate the fact that you're all saying what can we get for this that that makes sense and justifies the the purpose of a PUD which many of you guys have articulated and so more creative thinking and less barreling forward
156I think would be great which seems to be happening I think would be a great thing on this and with respect to the petitioners because they're they're doing their job as well I mean no but I don't think anybody here is evil we're just negotiating of difficult things thank you thank you anybody else wishes to address the Planning Commission all right seeing no one I'll move on with our agenda and the next item is Commission proposed business which is going to take a slightly different turn this evening because it's potentially at the end of time for two Planning Commission planning commissioners this evening the mayor has appointed two new people to the Planning Commission asked mr. Ackerman mentioned and this could very well be the last meeting for commissioner Weatherby and Commissioner Trudeau so I'd
157like to thank the both of you for your service I believe both of you have some comments that you like to share so I'm happy to hand it over and then I'm sure there's several of other commissioners who will say some words and I reserve the right to be the last one to speak so I will I think Commissioner Trudeau is dying to get the microphone so since this is possibly your last meeting I will hand it off to you and we will get a we will get a photo before we leave yes who has long arms I'm sure she'd out I wrote some notes because I realize this was gonna be my last meeting earlier today I was doing the math first I wanted to thank staff I started on Planning Commission in a
158period of transition we had an interim planning manager and it was sort of a learning process for a lot of us and I think our city has an incredibly dedicated study capable and responsible staff and so I think you know mr. Leonard Chris who are here and everybody who has been with us I really appreciate all of the effort you put into things your deep balls of patience for for us as commissioners these things are complicated with so many moving parts to help us all get our heads around things and really make good decisions so thank you I want to thank my fellow commissioners your various experiences have been a great education for me and for the community I think we are again blessed as a community to have it's not a word I use
159a lot the plus does a community to have such committed people with such really deep benches of experience I think we see that tonight with like there's anything with natural features Commissioner give Randall's like the go-to person there's probably nobody better in the city to truly be handling those anything that goes for a lot of the people who sit at this table so thank you all and I want to thank the community we have a very engaged citizenry and and people care a lot about their neighborhoods and care a lot about the city and that's not true everywhere you go and I think that's really important and one of the reasons this is such a great city to live in I'm a little a little upset because I there was I wanted to do one
160more term I think there's some really great stuff coming up in particular one of the things I've said over and over again as I've said at this table as we are like the importance of really taking a look at our master plan and doing a master plan update we're transitioning from a period of the city as a city of development where we sort of identified the parts of the city that will be developed that used to be farms and natural areas and now we're really transitioning into a phase of redevelopment or almost everything we're gonna see in the near future other than a couple of parcels is going to be redevelopment and I think that requires a very different mindset and so as we revisit that master plan that's one thing I really think is
161a huge opportunity for the city to really reflect on how we want to approach that going forward and as I'd sort of made comments earlier tonight about sort of who's coming who's going what we have control over what we don't have control over and and the choices we make or don't make matter and so hopefully that will provide us a good tool to guide us for the next decades and it's an important one so I'll continue to be involved in paying attention to that process because I think that's really he and I just wanted to was figuring out what I'm gonna have a bunch of free time now I'm so bad so I've been thinking about what I want to dedicate that time to and like I care a lot about the reason I came
162to this table was care a lot about housing and housing affordability I care a lot about the climate and the climate crisis and I think land use has an underappreciated role in both of those things and this is the table of those decisions get made it connects to transportation it could connects to a lot of things and yeah so I'm that that's kind of when we'll be figuring out how to put my energy but I think I just wanted to remind us all that we are a city of many advantages we have a world-class university we have a lot of wealth especially compared to other cities in Michigan and that gives us I think a special responsibility you really take those challenges seriously because they're the changes are coming whether we like it or not
163the climate crisis isn't going to go away we are in a relatively climate stable region with a relatively healthy economy with a lot of fresh water that as long as we protect it well we'll be here for a while and so a lot more people are going to be looking to come our way and if we don't aren't thinking about long term how we're gonna accommodate that and do that in a sustainable way that doesn't exacerbate the crisis which means fewer miles driving in our internal combustion engine cars and getting around and moving ourselves around differently and living more compactly like that's all going to matter a lot and if we can't figure out how to take the lead on some of those really difficult issues as a wealthy city with a whole bunch of
164resources that many other places don't have then we are all in trouble and this body and this also message also goes to council like we have a responsibility there and it's going to be uncomfortable it's going to require changes we're not always going to like or want to see happen but changes we're not going to like or want to see half an hour coming and so I just I really really really want to make that point that you have to start taking this more seriously and that's that's where I'm going to be putting my advocacy energy so you'll probably start seeing me on the other side of the table those things go forward yeah but I appreciate the opportunity to be here I've learned a ton and I'm really excited about the nominees I think
165there's a great applicant pool like we have a whole bunch of really smart talented people and so the nominees look great looking forward to seeing what they do at this table and I feel a little bad for them that they're gonna be coming into this beauty that's been a project that's been going on for years that has a lot of history and they're gonna be hearing about it for the first time but their first meeting potentially so good look good luck with that thanks again commish or Weatherby well I wasn't really planning to speak not knowing when our last meeting is although I was kind of putting off thinking about it but I agree with everything commissioner I also am counting on someone here to talk about having doors on main thoroughfares so somebody has
166to take up that mantle because that was my kind of thing of having doors on major streets and r4c good luck to all of you but know that you have a you will have a citizen participation there participant who is happy to help you on any of these and as commissioner Trudeau said I'm really looking forward in some ways to doing more advocacy one of the the things that people don't realize is we are limited in what advocacy we can do when we're on this body we can't I wouldn't say can't but we don't want participation in some things is more difficult because we are on this side of the of the Dyess or whatever this is and so I am looking forward actually to being on the other side and I can do a
167wicked three minute speech and and so I will you know show up in places and online and really trying to advocate for you know what I what I think is is the best of Ann Arbor and I do think in large part the people are the best of Ann Arbor I don't know that buildings are really our strong suit in general I I think it's hard for us to look I went to school at the University of Colorado where the buildings are sort of front and center and they're beautiful and they're all the same style and that's what they do and we don't have that which is both good and bad because we can't point to one thing and says this is our style we can point to a hundred things and say this is
168our style depending on which neighborhood and where we are and that has strengths and weaknesses but you know Ann Arbor is a great place to live and I plan on probably be the last owner of my house given the way things go our house was built in 1919 where the second owners probably be the last which is you know kind of bittersweet but I've seen a lot of development in my neighborhood as you know and I'm sure there will be a lot more and it's kind of exciting actually to think of all these new people who are gonna be living there and and so I I assume there you will be voting on more things in my neighborhood and you know I will be nice to you I won't always agree with you but I'll
169be nice to you but anyway just this has been a really great group of people to work with and and I've learned a lot and hopefully you've learned from me and and you know this is where we're counting on you all and and it's it's a great group and you won't you haven't seen the last of me especially if you know we continue on in the next next month but but I'll be on one side of the table here so it's probably gonna be the other side but you never know so you know so I think I am hoping to see you all a lot in the future in whatever venue that is so thank you all come ashore brings Scott and Julie thank you so much for your really dedicated and in service and
170insightful presence that you bring to the table you know as you've all said this is a really pleasant this is my second stint on Planning Commission not that my last commissioners wasn't lovely but I actually think this is you know I I really appreciate the the voice that the voices that exist around this table and really we'll miss yours and I'm excited it sounds like there's some good candidates they've been put forward that are that are coming and while you've been so positive I can't help but say I'm really frustrated to see the and publicly say that I'm really frustrated to see the circumstances under which that you've been asked to leave I think we are volunteers around this table and what was done to you was unacceptable I think it was wrong to to
171remove people from the Planning Commission simply because some around the council table don't appreciate how they speak and you have been I've seen how you speak on social media and it is not in my opinion unpleasant perhaps truthful but sometimes the truth is hard to hear and I don't think that I think it is hard to realize that as volunteers what the message that has been given to the rest of us is that perhaps that we should silent silence our voices you have been your as commissioners were volunteers and your communications have been foiled by people it's it's a really strange time that we're living in our city and I find it to be really strange that were supposedly a very progressive liberal community and yet there is so much animosity between folks that really
172probably are not that far apart on many of the issues that it's kind of gotten to this point that people are volunteers are being asked to remove being leave commissions for for what it's really hard to understand so thank you very much for your time and and I look forward to seeing your advocacy miss Sherwood's but to both Scott and to Julie there's a lot of power on that side of the table so don't forget that in fact there's more power there than there is on this side so make sure you use it I'm sure you will and the other thing I guess I want to say is have either one of you decided whether or not you want to run for president because you know debates don't start till next week we can pass
173the Hat right now but but it is good to know that you are not hanging up your hats and that you are going to be very very much involved because that's important that's probably one of the most important things that we know to be true a lot of times people say speak truth to power and the other day my husband said how about speak truth to foolishness and I like that so thank you for doing that and we will miss sitting beside you but it's good to know that we can always link arms want any any kind of issue that comes up so thank you very much Commissioner Gabe Randall I am really going to miss the two of you and a couple of a couple of things one is that you both are so
174prepared but then when you come you really listen and you're able to think on your feet too so you don't come in with a preconceived idea necessarily but you've been really thoughtful about it and then you listen to everybody and then I see you turning and figuring it out and both of you are so articulate about that and I really appreciate that so that's something you share but in terms of your differences things I appreciate Julie I'm a townie like you and I love how you know every street from the walkability side is like well I've seen bikes piled up on that corner and I just you have such a granular sense of the city that I will really miss that voice that you have and Scott you have such an amazing grasp of the
175big picture in terms of the master plan in terms of it I mean today's tonight's meeting I think really just showcased that and I I'm really truly going to miss both of you and I expect you on the other side but it'd be really nice to see you on other ways too so thank you Commissioner Mills well when I go after commissioner get Brandel like she literally takes big picture like walkability off of my list so I will just echo in that it has been a joy to get to sit at the table with you this is my social life because it's a big commitment right and so I both like envy you having your Tuesday nights back right but look forward to seeing you still on Tuesday nights because it your voices are really
176really important I was going I do have I really appreciate your big picture Commissioner Trudeau also and sort of getting at what commissioner Gabriel said earlier I really appreciate that you share with us when you're grappling with issues like where you when you see both sides and how that balance helps because I think a lot of us do that internally and and don't share it externally and I think that's really important for people to see these are not easy decisions right and so I think that that's really helpful and Commissioner Weatherby like I really appreciate how you relate what's going on like your own experience in your neighborhood to people and let them see like I'm in your shoes this is an and put yourself out there like often you say oh I wasn't sure
177what I was gonna think about this but it this is how it turned out or also holding people's feet to the fire and saying like no that's not the way it's going to be used like that is not where people are going to put their bicycles they are going to put their bicycle very near the front door right and so I think that that's I think that that's really helpful to you have a great way of engaging with people who come and speak before us so you're both really gonna be missed but again I'm looking forward to continuing to see you on Tuesday nights and follow your tweets on Mondays mr. Ackerman Thank You mr. chair and thank you commissioners whether it be in Trudeau for your service Scott I joined Planning Commission when Sandra
178Barrera retired in December of 2016 and you've been part of my Planning Commission experience throughout which has been one of the most rewarding challenging tasks as an elected official is serving on this body as well Moreau Lynn your perspective in my own experience has been fundamental I think people said big-picture but it's this ability to zoom out to see what are the trends happening nationally and what do those feel like here in Ann Arbor because we're not alone on so many of these issues and there are things that we can learn from other communities and all we have to do is look outside of ourselves and you do such a tremendous job of saying let's not be an island let's learn from other people's failures and try to create as proactively as possible a solution
179that will work for everyone regardless of income regardless of zip code regardless of education level and that's a that's a really powerful thing and I hope that voice you know has continued to hurt in this chamber from you and I think no one knows the journey of voice better than Commissioner woods having been on city council having been a planning Commissioner having benefit as an advocate and when she says you know you have power out there I hope you use it same-same to you Julie you you you join the city or choose me the Planning Commission just after me I think yeah and you you came in as one of the neighborhood representatives right that is your function and you've taken that so sincerely to heart you see your role here is to add different
180perspective to add perspective of what it is to live on one of these box affected by development affected by change change that people in this room feel change that you feel and you feel probably more significantly than most neighborhoods in town right and you bring you bring that voice and you bring that perspective from the street and that's that's really really appreciated I think I was underappreciated you guys have had my votes my entire tenure on council I think you earned the in your applications originally I think you've continued to earn it every day you've served the people of Ann Arbor and I'm incredibly grateful to have worked with you be sure so bei okay so I got one year in right so the youngest term person on the board um or to say Scott
181you and I met when I had big dreams before I joined Planning Commission and so this is your fault ah thank you kind of my hip mate for a very long time here so I think both of you actually as some of the largest mentors to me over this first year so I very much appreciate you supporting me learning kind of how to be on the side of the table and how to use kind of my power knowledge and background to support projects going forward and lean into difficult decisions so I I'm gonna miss you on Tuesdays but I actually look I'm glad we're all Facebook friends so I can follow you and your voice in different ways I think your social media I appreciate your voice in social media thank you so before I
182get to the gushy stuff so maybe about six maybe seven years ago I had the opportunity to take some training that was for planning commissioners planning staff it was just sort of a planning workshop and this may have been also as my role on the Zoning Board of Appeals and I remember we had a breakout session at one point and one of the staff that had served as a planning Commissioner in the past as we were discussing like how do you treat Planning Commission meetings how do you treat planning commissioners and he said every whatever day they met it's like we all got together because we're a family and we all sat down for dinner and we discussed things and some of them changed my mind I was able to change other people's minds but
183at the end we were all family and so this is how I treat this Planning Commission and my role here is that three times a month we get together on Tuesday night for dinner and we have the opportunity to discuss I know that I will be heard and I you have my promise always that I will always listen to everybody here and Scott enjoy you both have I've heard you many many times and you have changed my thoughts on a lot of things over all these years and so thank you for that I really do appreciate that because I sometimes walk in here wavering as to how I'm gonna look at something and by getting different perspectives from the two of you has the reason why I voted on so many things like I voted
184so I appreciate that both of you really missed julie i remember when i you sat down next to me for the first meeting and i was a little you know there's somebody new sitting next to me and i don't know that but it's grown into a great friendship so i am looking forward to it going beyond our three dinners that we have per month we can actually have dinner we have to worry about quorum so with that said i both of you will be really missed and thank you for everything you do for that you've done for me personally and for the city of Ann Arbor with that said is there any other commission proposed business I will take Commissioner Mills always do this mr. Leonard could we add to the list I feel like
185a year ago when we had a retreat there was someone that was talking about an ordinance of trees on private property like a staff member can you figure out what that is and see if we can get an update on what's going on no you don't remember this does anybody else remember this someone was talking about a potential regulation of landmark trees on private pretty so you're interested in just knowing what's going on if there has been any proposals to change the ordinance to require regulation of landmark trees on single-family residences yes I think I believe that's what it was and I I don't know if it was a me curse or someone else but he was I remember having this conversation during our retreat where you brought in a lot of staff parents yes
186and I remember having that conversation with somebody yeah in short I have not seen such proposed language change but I'll see if any work has been done in that regard thank you very much you do always do that any other Commissioner wins I want to move that Scott and Julie be permitted to take their nametags sometimes people don't let the whole thing as as long as they promise to bring it back in case they are here for another meeting [Laughter] all right well second it all those in favor aye however can how much I think this law I'm sure you have the authority to dispose of city property I'm pretty sure this is gonna have to go to City Council that's not true yeah marijuana dispensaries yeah well no technically the Circuit Court has final
187say Appeals our decision so with that I will take a motion to adjourn move back mr. wetherby's seconded by mr. trudeau all those in favor please say aye opposed we are adjourned thank you you