001to order I'm bill Kinley I'm the temporary chair for today I'm Vice Chair but given that Tamara is off today you don't have to put up with me and stumbling through this so welcome to the may 8th meeting of the board I'll ask Alexis to call the roll here thank you I will call for a motion to approve the agenda so blue second been moved and supported to approve the agenda all in favor say aye and we have minutes from the April 10th meeting I would entertain a motion to approve those minutes so moved support it moved and supported is there discussion Corrections changes all those in favor say aye aye opposed same sign we'll move on to regular business and we'll ask we have two of items on the agenda today and I'd asked
002that the presenters for those two items limit their remarks and the entire presentation to something between 30 and 45 minutes so we have time to give adequate approval time renewal time removal time whatever we're going to call it for the second group without getting too close to dinner so the first item on the agenda is 545 South Main Street I would ask that Luers representing 545 to let us know what you think if you could identify yourself please good afternoon Tomas rotten stand the van Statten architects here with the folks for me to enjoy and Kurt Eric and the great friend of theirs for me in Harbor too so this is our second time here got some great feedback and really thoroughly enjoyed the productivity of the last conversation in the meantime we've been working
003and beginning to work on some more of the site plan issues for the site plan submittal and I think those those things are beginning to be represented a little bit more clearly in this presentation so I'm just going to go through what we have and show it to you I think that as far as addressing some of the concerns about the downtown design guidelines and the district characters you know characteristics I think that you know the one thing I would say is the first three character district description is poetic it's absolutely beautifully written I think it's probably the the best written and the juiciest of all the districts and so when I look at it it seems to me to open the door for perhaps a bit more romance a bit more acceptance of history
004and and I think looks to preserve multiple positions the railroad the Old River the industrial area so it's it's calling for us to look at those things and reference them and take care of them and so I think what we're trying to do is take care of Andry inhabit that position that you've established in those district ID lines so that said this is a pretty boring page so obviously we looked at before it's a pretty funny sight sitting with the railroad tracks cutting across it we don't have very much frontage on each corner the real building that touches a lot line if you will touches the railroad tracks in this back of an existing shed going up Main Street the majority of buildings on the east side are really back facing so that housing building
005up the way as a back facing building actually has has maintenance access coming right off of Main Street so we felt like it was pretty important to begin to open up to Main Street on the short little frontage that we do have on that side there these are some existing photos we've got through them before so that the site is the mixture of buildings that were built over time the main building being an old cast-in-place concrete building that that in a couple of corners still has some rebar sticking out of it with this old sort of you know thinking that you're going to keep on growing the factory you're going to keep on building the building we just tested the roof and the roof has a quite a thick slab on it so there's there's
006the possibility that they had even thought at some point about building on top of that the site plan is really the same as what we showed you last time what we've done here now those further developed the courtyard area so that you can understand the way it's occupied there's two main pedestrian entrance ways so we have one entrance way beyond this existing curb cut here that comes in along a sidewalk and through the property and then we have another cut because of how tight it is down here in parking we have a cut that actually we're putting a opening in the side of the shed there and coming through past some bike storage into the into the site proper so again like trying to interact with what's there use it as portals as framing for
007the site and for the experience and really thinking that this is a wandering through the site sort of experience for people this just gives you a sense of the floorplan so a kitchen in the back here main open dining room in this concrete building private dining room tucked away here wood stove fireplace gathering area here some banquettes here again trying to keep away from these old doors that we're going to replace here being able to fold them open really see into the space and have it be fully activated both inside and out this is looking up at the second floor space above the which could be used for private events has a couple of doors on this side to open out onto the courtyard really just large communal eating area and there's a few steps
008that go up to the rooftop area rooftop has a couple of fire pits seating for dining some casual seating up there so it's really sort of combination of dining room and living room if you will these drawings really haven't changed so much these are just the building elevations showing the addition of the connector piece up top and the rail where the roof roof area is and then some of the stuff that we call that before in terms of the materiality of it so that's a bit of a repeat section stayed the same and then we went through and have put the middle courtyard and some more of the work they've done into these renderings so this is a rendering when you come down Main Street and you turn that corner we're bringing signage out to
009the front here we sort of like it it's got this back trust supporting it which is kind of a classic old way to make a sign I think it's simultaneously you know can reference the lumberyard more strongly and also have a nice interaction with the railroad tracks so that frames that corner in that pedestrian entry there in the quarter here you can see we're doing a little we'd let them be a little bit light for now but some trees here to provide shade for seeding and looking through here it's a mixture of tables lounge chairs and then these small low tents for people to get in and hang out this is looking back for Madison so beginning till I put some of the signage into here so there's a sign on this end wall which
010is that beautiful old concrete wall there we've opened up this shed on the corner here so the actual pedestrian flow comes through that way bike parking here these sheds we've taken these doors and made them all into a long stackable pieces so they slide off to the side opening a shed up so this is a view just you know here you are in the sidewalk we really kind of love this it's this view framing through you're actually seeing the entry on the side of the building same time you're seeing the sign here an activation of the stair coming down so as far as you know we're concerned like that sort of depth and range of activation is really important that it's not just the sight that's everything happens within the first foot or two of
011the sidewalk again seeing the edge of this is the pathway coming through there's golf in here and really the thinking in that is that those are basically a knock down little putt-putt golfing that there might even be a competition for U of M students or something to do so trying to have it be a little bit more playful and artistic then you get over into Minneapolis you've seen the Walker does extensive little putt again looking back through so this would be the edge of turning the corner and walking through the property seating outside the existing buildings this is looking back to the shed along the railroad tracks thinking now is that we'll have a series of collection of food trucks that are serving sort of single station items a little bit seating underneath in there
012and then you know kind of full activation in the courtyard area this is looking back across so this gives a nice sense of how the old lumber yard frames that space how important it is to sort of have that interaction back and forth across the space too so that is that stuff at 42 seconds we did a little walkthrough was helpful so this is coming this is coming down Main Street and walking through to the other side of the property so we really followed the path at the pedestrian might have if they're behaving grasses have little deep so that's that one let's get back today you can see these doors that slide open on that face there so that's that one and this one's a little faster so this is coming up to the West
013concrete building here of the sign bringing you through the shed that we're opening up a couple parking spots bike parking here and then turning and then this cheats a little bit we're gonna go up to egress stare off the side so that's really pretty much it that's great yeah so we neglected to mention I'll say it to you but to the next group as well we're gonna try to keep the first presentation part two about ten minutes and I've yeah a little bit longer and that's good because I think there's been helpful for us so if you can wrap up what you have to say and then we'll open this to the some discussion I'm done okay thank you good presentation yeah okay board members this kind of hurts back to something that bill brought
014up at the last meeting and that has to do with the heads along the railroad tracks having the having the food carts in them I'm sure it's gonna generate a fair amount of foot traffic over to that area and basically the lawn goes right up to it so I'm worried that that's gonna be kind of a maintenance problem it can be a muddy mess especially the lawn is is turning into turf it's pretty impossible so the thinking now is to take those areas and take take the two corners so the area that has the trees on this one corner this area when you're coming in and potentially do a piece stone or do a natural plantings there or the surround there and then the other end where there but then really kind of looking at
015performance I mean I completely you're looking at performance looking at the where until we've been moving through things we felt like it was it's more important to get the trees to give some shade without having tents all over the place than it is to try and pull off grass that's gonna be a fight and especially I think with the way those you know that overhang works in the end of the day we all know how the first 18 inches of grass this yeah I'm actually kind of glad to hear that because as much as I on the one hand don't like the idea of an artificial surface on the other hand I like the idea of it being a practical use I think the turf will soften versus any other thing that you could use
016pavers or stamped concrete or whatever so I like it I agree I think that's a good solution for it now just one question and let everybody else talk I assume that we sent some somehow permeable and we're it's complicated site with the flood plain the flood way so we're working on how to deal with the you know the heights and the drainage in there but absolutely yeah okay I think it's a good solution yeah okay because you're probably reducing the impervious area on the site or you that's that's in discussion right now yeah so Midwestern is working in western and they're talking to Jane Commission and Washington I believe it is site design are you doing it in house they're doing site engineering and they're also doing any assists in terms of setting things up
017to be taken taking care of the right way and then typically we work with landscape architects to do any specifications so sort of combining best efforts I can't speak to the hell off and they're all it's a little bit of a struggle for us to find your 3d model and scale incorrectly so they're all pretty small but I think essentially the doors are huge the slide wide open right so we've got full 16-foot access or 18 or 24 the access typically if if there's something that doesn't fit we've done them where we just put them on the little wheel trolleys slide it in drop it take it out if one needs to take it out they don't require a vehicle for the trailer hooked up to the trailer to maneuver them into place yeah yeah
018yeah yeah I mean there's no no paving at all to accommodate that maneuvering there's no turf you could get that would tolerate those vehicles on it on a sort of regular basis so I think really think about that it's gonna be an important operation if they're gonna just sit in there for the whole year yeah it's just something to think about because I'm not sure that it actually works to them in and out moment yeah I mean really the idea of them is that they're gonna be used for the site so it's not they're not a kind of component like you would see with some restaurant groups where there's a you know there's the catering truck that goes around to different sites it's really not that they're more of an eclectic mix of pieces that
019are doing single functions no they're all they're more just like yeah like one would serve mac and cheese they're just stations essentially yeah so I think a lot of the things you've added from a site standpoint are basically furniture right I mean there are things that land and can go away they don't have a permanence but they are creating an environment within that space and we see a lot of successful outdoor spaces now that are primarily temporary I think and I think this gets a little bit to what some of the staff comments were around is some of the more enduring elements that would help one create a stronger straight edge and a stronger presence along the street I'm not sure that the sign is getting us there yet viewed from the side it doesn't
020have a really strong impact on the street around the pedestrian experience you're really seeing the side structure of it yeah I guess and then looking at the view that's on our screens right now which is across the parking lot and it it really just feels sort of like we're sea into somebody's backyard stuff and I just wonder about really crafting those edges a little bit more thoughtfully and that doesn't mean that it has to be really robust but with a little bit of permanence that it makes us feel like a space that has purpose and meaning and edges and that you know when you've entered it and you know when you've exited it and I think that that would help help it help the edge of it feel like a meaningful part of Main Street
021which is the goal of the guidelines when you mention the desire to illustrate the romance and the history of the railroad in the industry we get that from the existing components but we don't get any more of that richness at the street edge through the things that you're adding as a design team and as a development project and I think that's I'm still feeling like that's missing like we you know it's basically the buildings are doing it if you took all the other stuff away you still have the same plan we had last time which is you know it's for its furniture so I would still like to see the addition of some treatment at the edge that ideally is expressive of those things that you mentioned in a more enduring way one other thing
022I wanted to note is the walkway from the South with car the nose ends of cars over you know pointing into that that's something like a 5-foot wide walk to me I would never choose that walk I would walk through the parking lot yeah because it's so constrained I wonder if you might not consider rotating the parking spaces to be perpendicular to the entry kind of aligned with the face of the building to give you a bit of a triangle of space that lets you make that more gracious the poke through the wind the doorway is kind of cool and I think if it could just be a little bit more open and gracious that it would be helpful this is just very narrow so if you can imagine where you know if you took
023the parking that's on the east side and flipped it to the west side it would give you a little more space your parking is not very efficient I guess you could make it more efficient and gain some space and circulation and come in doing so yeah can I ask your advice and see a great advice so what do you think would be I mean it's a little bit of a conundrum because on the one hand I think the richness of being able to see in and pass through is amazing and I think it's something that I always forget and I'm reminded by experiences and things that happened and I often wonder like would any of us modern-day like designers give Central Park back to the people would we do panoramic Hill and Berkeley like I
024don't know whether those things would come out of us anymore because of like a bit too much rigidity so I'm always worried if it seems as though you want to see in but the same time you want to mark the street and then when I look around I think about the street the street to me a lot of it is in danger of being Canal like it feels like the danger and the reason why you have all of these guidelines in terms of setbacks and everything is to try and avoid this sort of army quarter engineers like sandbag decide and shoot it to somebody else and so I'm just curious like what do you think would be if we took that upper side of Maine like what what would you think even these are something
025in your head that you think would mark that moment that is a way of thinking about establishing that without blocking it off at the same time well yeah I mean I love you know four feet above yes really and I think that if you can to some extent mask the clutter of the stuff that's out there and allow views into the building and the upper level of things the twinkle lights that might you had the canopy of their trees you could do something with a low fencing maybe it reflects what you're doing in the window in faux patterning of a chevron thing maybe you pull some of that out in in a low railing with the landscape so you get a bit of a mystery saying I wonder what's over there I'm kind of curious
026but it doesn't block it off all the way and I was recently at Holmes brewery which is the patio there's full oops fully enclosed and there's a charm also in walking by this thing and hearing the murmur of voices and wondering what's on the other so yeah I would be you know it I don't think full exposure is necessarily like the best way to say there's something wonderful on the other side of this so I would say a little screening on the parking a little bit of sense of threshold would help that and you could do it with something that was four or five feet tall okay great no thank you maybe something solid you know cast-in-place concrete was ten mounted flying pasta Simon just just screen it because there is there's a lot going
027on and yeah it's space yeah yeah okay and I wanted to ask you about toilet rooms I've been looking at it and I'm the first floor of the main building there's there's a non gender-specific group of six or seven toilet rooms and then on the second floor you have two single single occupancy very free toilet rooms yeah I think I'm seeing and then I'm seeing another pair that do look gender specific out in the West shed am i right yeah I didn't see that in the flyby yeah and we've been playing around with a little bit of it is driven by how the site gets occupied and what the seat numbers are and kind of really the operating plan but one discussion that we've had over time about a way of handling additional bathrooms as
028though needed outside without having people trace to the inside was too similar to the you know similar to the trucks the trailers that are serving the food that we bring that we have a bathroom trailer out there and so it's a bathroom trailer if I could only I didn't see that okay so that's that's portable that would be portable yeah self-contained self-contained everything is that also due to that corners in the floodplain and all we have to do is is hold it down yeah so it's not floating away and staying in the West shed did you consider at all changing the the corrugated metal front and the sidewalk the west side of it or can you also not touch them I guess just seems I know I was wondering yeah you thought about visual really
029you think about this whole side along the trails yeah yeah you know some so I guess the one thing I would say the thing is funny about the furniture nothing is funny about the signage is quite honestly it's almost a backwards process right like the last thing you would do is they do the signage and do the furniture you know you get your seating counts and then you kind of go through and you go through into your kitchen you all have stuff and those are the last things you would attend to and I can't tell you how many times like every project we've got in the office right now the signs the last thing anybody's doing right but in this case like it's a kind of important part to show like we're leaving space for
030color to be there for something to exist so I guess what I would say that I still think there's moments like even I cut through on the south side where we make the door - I think there's moments to add graphics onto that that would be incredibly classic and feel really really nice against the railroad tracks but that's just I would say still has to be pulled out of the rest of the team and then switching to the north shed we talked last time you got a good south-facing sloping roof there yeah any chance of solar have you thought about that yeah so we asked so the two the two things I mean in addition to the to the flood and the floodplain flood way I'm the two other things are working on us with
031our mechanical engineer were looking at that feasibility and what where that power can go and what they can do with that so he's he's working on that I'm preparing a little summary for the group and then the other person that we have on board because I know they were concerns expressed at the last meeting and quite honestly like we have concerns about to are working on the acoustical properties of both that courtyard space and the upper deck area so there's a great acoustical engineer that's in Michigan that we work with a lot we've given him the drawings we're getting some baseline assumptions about the sound and then for example on that second floor we have the mechanical screen we're looking at that being built in a way that it's not just you know mechanical screen
032but it's also absorbing sound off of that roof deck and really trying to see what what the sound is going to do up there so there is some mechanical equipment I never yeah and then on the roof of the main building I think it benefit from some shade yeah somehow I think it'd get something up there the if you've gone to the roof of Palio room every year they build a little more shade and yeah it's yeah it doesn't work to just nothing for sure and have you given any thought to how you might mitigate noise disturbance from that rooftop towards the Northeast yeah so right now on the rooftop this is a screen wall that is currently in wood and then it wraps around here like this and then this is this addition coming
033up so the thinking is we're looking at how sound gets around this corner but this is pretty much in line with the building adjacent the masonry building across the way that U of M has so what we're looking at is how can this backdrop in combination actually with using a paper broken using a wood paper that also is able to catch them this sound so how can this whole piece perform in terms of absorbing that sound and where is the sound really going so that so that seemed like a nice kind of gain and gain like you screened in mechanical clip in a nice way so what did you have to make it twelve inches deep to pocket it and get this sound to be buried in there so that's that's thinking up there and
034then the last comment I never remember last month when you were here the walk through that the owner gave us other properties they owned they they all sort of had a organic approach what it looked like components of the site have been added over time and and we we would really like to have a more preconceived here and so I think some of the things Laurie talked about rather than yeah then discovering you need to do this and slap an awning up and it looked a little eclectic and that can be really charming and I think it worked in the other facilities I'm not sure it's working here yet yeah so yeah I think that I mean I think in a way the way I would think about this and we maybe talked a little
035bit more about the architecture last time so I was trying not to be too redundant and I think the feedback today in terms of the site's been fantastic so thank you but the way I would think about the feeling of it is you know first of all we're bringing you the summer months and we load it up right with variants and I think if we scream but the other thing is that I think in this case like that middle concrete building is so special that really the a lot of the experience of it is gonna be looking through right this herringbone folded glass and a wood frame and my soft pane into just a beautiful glow inside so it's a little bit closer to you know coming across the Prairie and seeing the glowing house
036and saying wow I finally found somewhere to relax and settle in you know there's a fireplace in there so I think it I think that's a little closer to what is what and that sort of you know mashup of components I think it's crisper and cleaner than that in many ways that the contrast between the nice new crisp piece and the older pieces are actually heightened they like experience of both of them explains a certain interest to what looked old and ratty before by contrasting it with something nice and elegant in the well details I like what you know maintaining trying to recreate that with something that's so industrial that's original I think believing it impact with all of its layers of history is yeah interesting I think the other thing too is that you
037know the I mean unfortunately we have renderings and we have 3d models and we have pictures and you know they're great but it's everything we love about life is built from straight-up experience you know and I think that that it's wow many of the spaces that have been done I think could be looked at as being eclectic when you're in that space experiencing those things around you it has a sense of home and place and and richness that I think in this day and age of craziness and just living through pictures is really really important for people you know we sort of seen a return to craft if you will in the sense of like giving somebody something to occupy their mind in a quiet way make some of the comments that I think Laura
038made about some of the visual break at the edges of of the active site I think that added to that is the the practical part of having some site control having owned some buildings just south of this on game day the outdoor seating in indoor restrooms were taken over pretty much by folks who weren't necessarily customers and it's a little bit more of a control issue you're gonna have a very exposed site on two sides and you may find the practically speaking that outdoor seating and those restrooms in the the portable you may need a little little effort at controlling that ingress and egress which may be more problem than you might imagine oh so and I think that there's probably I mean you look at the way to operations would be there's probably sort
039of 12 days 30 days 120 days and then another you know 160 days and so right like 12 crazy 30 who knows what's gonna happen a bunch of stable days in the summer when you try it right and then comes the winter I think part of you know moving forward with all of the necessary variances that would be required to not meet the standards I would say would be in thinking about this outdoor space as part of your indoor program local space and and enclosing it in treating it a little bit more as such from an outdoor edge point and also I think your points are really great because if I look at both of the parking lots if I'm in that space I have headlights shining on me I'm in there having a drink
040the parked cars Park pull in to park in there there's nothing kind of creating that barrier when you're inside standpoint and from when you're outside so I would really recommend looking at at least three foot tall something that extended from the West shed north along the edge of the parking lot create a gateway into the space that allows you that security and creates a stronger edge I would also suggest doing something similar on the south end of the gathering space so it really feels like a room that's cultivated and in there in program I know I already said that but I guess I just wanted to be explicit that it's not just on the street edge I think on the parking edges would be something that would be really I think an effort well well
041made yeah so so essentially in some foreign manner from up here across to here but then you're also thinking well it's visual and practical I mean I think it's aesthetically pleasing the way to Laurie describing it but the practical matter of the headlights which I hadn't thought of but just folks drifting in and out you know it is a limited number of days per year that there was going to be intensely busy days for you yeah and you want that to be comfortable I think landscape edge with a really interesting we detailed slat fence it could be shortened you know corrugated sheets on really well detailed but interesting and fairly spare with landscape right but I don't think we have clear guidelines on what that needs to be to say because those could this could
042be a big cost item just throw out there but I think that it's more about kind of getting and I so you pointed for the one I would say on the south end yeah as well so but would you also then say all around I actually on the Madison side personally think that you only need it on the north end of that lot where it abuts the spaces you're using I don't think the stratagem as important to cultivate is okay that's what she go ahead I mean that's really outside of the consider buffer zone anyways I mean you might include that as part of the percentage that you need they send the parking lot or something right okay it's more for the indoor tennis space you're creating to work yeah yeah I have a question
043on the first floor there is an area outside of the bar sort of in the southeast area of the building with two doors leading out to it what is that space he's here yeah this is an early remnant but we kept it because we thought it was actually quite effective but this is a private dining room and this is just a covered roof area going along this face this was the old dust collection area there's actually old railroad track in there from when they used to drop the dust and wheel it back out it's a really incredible room that has all the old fire brick in it and it's just unbelievable 12 by 24 inch like beautiful shine to it so the thinking was that you could either access that way or coming through this
044way so this gives us kind of options seasonally a little bit and also just that ability for it to open up and breathe this is this is a like the server's could use it as a walkway bartender could come around that way people could use it to come through and go to the bathrooms exterior space just was that were just a lover go to smoke what's that yeah is that where people will go to smoke well that was my concern not that I care about people smoking but we had some comments at the last meeting from the neighborhood about impact of this site on to their property and if that's the place where people go to smoke then they're a little bit concerned and by the way I like the idea of using the mechanical
045space on the roof as a buffer to kind of to buffer the noise from the people that are on the roof partying and dining I think there was a good use of that space so that's my only concern about that as people will go there and smoke and it'll blow or the neighbors and that space is really only accessed by people using a private dynein and the private dining maxes out at about 24 people Oh it's also within the run that's completely adjacent to the building next door so if one goes around that side now you actually have to walk through that driveway between the two properties and then there's a little swath of 8-foot by the length that going going back for that property yeah I think you used up some play in one
046line the word variances do you have an idea are there variances that you're going to need from from what you know of the site in the building I think that well sure probably there are a few yeah I think that I mean I guess it depends on anything that's new construction is we're not going to go beyond the setbacks right so if we're building a new little connector piece we're going to pull it back so it's conforming so I wouldn't think that there's that I know that there's potentially the height issue right building massing but it also is an existing structure so it seems to me usually if you're extending the use of an existing structure it's pretty hard to make somebody end up getting a variance for using a building that exists usually it's
047if you wanted to come back tear it down and propose a non-conforming building you know as a new piece of construction you don't know it was a shopping list of variances right now is what you're saying you they can come up as they come yeah I mean maybe Alexis can speak to what her opinion on them is but I okay enough said yeah other comments folks disappointed that you gave up the forefinger ly name I'm glad you brought that up it's now blocked bar or is it right it's a placeholder for the time being yeah names and signage those are the the last thing the signage comes last because the name comes as you work through things I think so but yeah obviously there's a great and complicated history there so to answer on the
048mana from that question a black bar is just the holding company name so it won't be consumer facing it definitely won't be so we just changed our bure bar to block bar to avoid any potential confusion and then we also were playing with the name still and then the other thing I noticed in the latest report in the last minutes is if it's still referred to it as a brewery and we won't have that component in this undertaking thank you great very complete conversations thank you any other questions I think you could be surprised by what might be there any time I think what it allows for you know be pervasive over time so yeah and I think it's great I mean it's almost like to me if I look at it I mean I've
049been involved in writing design guidelines multiple times and this is one of those moments when you arrive in a district is saying hmm like maybe that would be a screen wall or a fence or like talking about those architectural elements would be something that's added to it so really it's it's great feedback from you guys because it kind of gives us more insight into the extension of the ways of thinking about the district so thank you I will I just want one thing when when we wrote the guidelines for an inward opening space laying like this we were really looking at the courtyards in querido mm-hmm and and we were saying to each other let's get more of that yeah so you might spend some time there me yeah maybe you'll find something yes I
050think they're great yeah nobody spent and you've done a few things in there so well I think we appreciate your presentation I think you'll find we're all supportive of what you're doing and I think this would be a good project for you great thank you okay and next up if you could bring up presentation for the address 1100 South University my name is Shana vero with South numerous South LLC where the developer of the project I have Diane McIntyre with our architect today this is our second time coming back we heard a lot of the comments and primarily as it related to that corner at East you and South University so we have made some updates to that as well as we've had a couple conversations with planning and engineering and have made some tweaks
051as well that may not be reflected in this plan because they have been made over the last couple days so so I'll go through some of the basics of the building even though some of it has not changed just to give a review again as John said we're a 13 story high-rise building we're in downtown and the d1 zoning district and the South character overlay district as well there we go so just to give you an idea of the location on South University Avenue the south side of South University Avenue between East University Avenue and Church Street where the current PNC and good time Charlie's it's located on that block right there I love this view because you can see quite a bit of the development that has happened over the last five to ten
052years so our proposed site right on South University at the corner of East University and then still a mix eclectic mix of low-rise shopping but then also showing the newer high-rise more contemporary building surrounding it and since eye contacts photos I know we showed these last time but just to show the flavor of the site some existing buildings at the corners of the Lots and then university buildings that surround it as well as other student housing high-rises or restaurants retail some lower rise housing facilities and then you can see more high-rise housing as well as some of the more low-rise retail and restaurant facilities that are nearby so the site plan is pretty much the same in terms of the proposed building outline but I think one of the main differences between the last time
053we presented and this time and we mentioned it briefly at our last presentation the parking ramp that went down to the below grade parking was over here off of Church Street and now it has moved over to Eastern University Avenue based on traffic study analysis and further discussions with the city it was actually determined that this was the more ideal location and then as that parking ramp moved over it allowed actually to utilize this space and I'll going to flip through to the floorplan Street is that a retail component will be in the first part and we're looking at behind that adding about four surface spaces to be utilized for building maintenance building management and then the curb cuts that is proposed there we're working with engineering we'll probably get about be about 33 feet
054versus 30 feet right now and I think having the parking entrance here you know had its advantages but it did require a curb cut here the existing service drive a curb cut down to the parking and then good time Charlie's has their curb cut as well the other thing to to know which the civil plan doesn't show is that on that south side of that component we are putting in about an approximate three foot walk that's between the building and the actual drive in primarily that dry it is only used for trash pickup which is at the back there at that corner and then as well as for utilization by pizza house they come in they go underneath the building of the 611 East University project this slide also I will be yeah go ahead
055when I get to the first floor to be much easier to save it just one brief comment just to show trying to keep a connection between East U and Church Street here either along here or along here look great parking and then as we go up to grade level you can start to see that tenant space over here and moving the parking garage ramp actually you know benefited in terms of getting it more use out of the space and this is where the generator is currently located where Shawn had mentioned we're looking at adding surface level parking right here and we'll move the generator into the building the bike storage that's currently there I'll get moved over behind the parking ramp as well as the secondary bike storage area as well yeah so we still
056have maintained commercial retail spaces at the first floor level and residential entry off of South University about mid block as we go up will we see the living units second floor through 12th floor we focused more on one two and three-bedroom units as opposed to five and six bedroom units and as we get up past the 12th floor the top level level 13 you use primarily as amenity spaces outdoor patio lounge area spaces and also trying to bring back that top level of the building to soften the top of the building in a way that I mean if you were on the street you may not even see this portion of the building depending on where you're at and then the elevations some changes in elevations well some things that stayed the same let's say
057we are maintaining the 2-story street wall predominantly using brick as our building elements also stones around for the residential entry and it's hard to see on the elevation the kind of recesses and things that'll be more evident on the perspectives but trying to create more variation in cornice height these used to just come straight across bringing some elements up and really taking that corner the northwest corner that had the glass tower coming down and then ending at a recess has now become a positive element at the street level this is the South facade one thing the nice steak houses downtown so there between that and the potbellies restauranteurs of that beginning of that alleyway that goes behind Red Hawk so we had commissioned a mural along that section of the alleyway so we're gonna look
058at possibly something here along that to cook again activate the pedestrian experiences they do come through in essence a small alleyway because we know they're they're gonna cross and another element I'm not sure if it's gotten on to the elevations yet is the residential entry on the front is the main residential entry that they can also enter off of the south side as well moving on to the West elevation along East University Avenue again you see the northwest corner as a positive element maintaining articulation modules between 32 and 40 feet and then now the parking garage entry has moved to this location and the East facade starting to see the retail element that will come on board and living units above a quick building section that shows the 150 foot height of the building the
059roof itself is down around 139 feet so the 150 is really just the top of rooftop mechanical equipment and if you are over on the 12th floor you may be down at about hundred and twenty eight feet or so with a canopy coming up some representations of the different brick colors that we're planning on using dark red medium and then you can start to see the street facade as it comes together again positive element at the corner we've kept the vertical recesses that run upside the building and taking the two-story street wall all the way out to the property line stepping back five feet to what we see is the red brick here we also have a metal panel in steps here about three foot inset from the property line and then again a five-foot
060inset from the property line back to the red brick and another three feet back into the vertical recesses and then also some variation and a foot or so between these materials about three feet or so between trying to create some variation and the depth that we see along the building and we still have established a cornice line across here we had brought this one up before and we actually on the other end brought one up similar to the west side to try to capture some space up at the 13th floor and bring that out at this corner looking at the north-east corner of the building and then the main residential entry with the stones around and taking us to a street level view of the northwest corner and starting to see some of the articulation
061elements the canopies that help bring down to a human scale and then predominantly glass facades along that street level for the commercial and retail tenants also too we were able to have our citizens participation meeting in preparation for our site planning project here this past Monday we had four individuals at ten primarily they were they'd like to design like the look of the building the architectural aspects of it other questions they had as it related to how we were doing the affordable housing premium how parking and the egress worked but overall they did like the overall architectural aspects in the look of the building so I wanted to pass that along as well great question thank you I'll open the floor maybe mr. Mitchell would like to come in first well and I was gonna
062come in on this view you have on the screen right now I noticed in the report that staff did that Alexis wrote she had urged that you vary the height of the street wall a little bit and I know you did that with the rear wall so this is the North elevation towards the east but I was looking at at this limestone two-story piece which is the main entrance for the residents maybe just kicking that up and to break the three-ball just up to the guardrail height so you don't and and then eliminate the guardrails see if you can't another two three and a half feet there just be a variance there that would speak to that being the entry along with red that means entry kick that yeah just to break that that's such
063a strong line in in the street you know on in elsewhere in the city bounced around a little bit from storefront so would your thoughts be that entry and then maybe the corner doing something along that line as well so those are kind of the key aspects so you know I think Bill calling me because I was the one who said that barrel barrel vault coming off the diag just frames this northwest corner and it's an opportunity to do something and and you've changed and you're looking at it and I'm not sure that the change in the detailing makes it that special event that we were hoping for last time because the detailing on either side of it it is so nicely done there's a lot going on on the pedestrian level to add interest
064in and then switching to the curtain wall system with I don't know what that those horizontal spandrel pieces are and they appear up above to but it so I know I know you're wrestled with this and and you're just trying to probably make us happy and and I also know you probably don't have a tenant here and so this could could all change when the tenant comes and and you submit to suit their needs but what what is your thinking did you look at any other options there's yeah we looked at a few we looked at raising the cornice height one story two stories we looked at columns at the corner just give you a little more substance and ultimately you know with with various forces a lot of those being certain aesthetics of people
065involved in the decision making process they they preferred coming back with the cleaner Street line and just or exposed glazing corner yeah so we didn't include the rest of those studies because this was this was their preferred option we did probably over a course of a month review various other alternatives to what this could be I know I respect that because there's there's an unknown player here your tenant and I assume Shawn you were trying to keep it as clean and open appellate issue that was primarily for the other individuals within the ownership team I'm not a I'm a I'm a construction engineer so design is not my forte like just show you what you want to build it so but that was the primary desire was to try to keep a crisp clean look
066to the building yeah it seems to me that the I'm concerned about the entry the residential portion because it's kind of oversized it really you know is equal to the other retail components on the street I realized that the residential is a signature part of the building but we've seen a lot of other projects where the entry is not the main focus the entire facade it's the retail portion residential entry is graded or differentiated to address that question so when we did north the residential interest as a primary feature of the building so as you can tell that was a big village north now this is Vic village Salas we're trying to carry some of those themes through as well so having that residential entrance be a prominent component of the building carries through with
067how we treated the north the north project as well so it maintains that feel through the projects it kind of overwhelms the potential for tenancy and Kennedy for instance the walls from your frame by the stone it's just a very small portion that is actually related to the entry of the building and anyway that's one of my concerns and the other is obviously the corner I don't think the corners potential success everybody's concerned because it should go through the diag that's your name I think just removing a column which may have been there in the last mission I don't know if you looked at cutting that corner diagonal putting the entry on the diagonal so I think the challenging part is we heard from the last time you didn't like it set back so we
068brought it forward so that I mean it's the it's a challenging aspect that corner is a challenge I think is going to be no matter what to find something that is unique and works for it and fits in with the whole entire building so I'm not saying set it back I'm just saying it makes it makes it a little bit more challenging though from also from a retail tenants perspective to have a cut right there as well and having that the squareness of that as well makes it a lot more opportunities for them for their entrance and how they bring in carving part of that giant six units base out maybe you're losing some residential space in the next floor above but if you if that was glass all the way up it's the only
069piece that doesn't have the horizontal separation between the first and second floor you have a chandelier or some moment in that retail corner space that then makes it special it's just something to think about whether or not that's an opportunity just think about the second what you do is one one moment where you have a two storey space that could be so so so a lot of that is financially driven to and as I think mr. Perkins can attest to the construction cost have gotten outrageous the land costs are outrageous the city fees are outrageous so I understand and I can I can agree with that but I don't think and it's also challenging to find a two-story tenant we've seen that throughout Ann Arbor you can carve in on either side of it it
070might be something worth looking at cutting it out there is a way that would make that by scaling it up and having that glassy piece be more dramatic and scale you might get one other thing on the residential entrance that I wonder if isn't something you could consider is it's not just you know changing the height of it but actually potentially pushing just the best of you old piece of it back so your tenant spaces now have corners that wrap toward that vestibule space so it becomes more prominent because it's recessed actually because it's an exception to the rule as opposed to coming forward and just changing the materials that that inset would kind of lead you there but then the prominence would be in the retail on either side of it it's not a
071simple move based on the plan but it might be something that could work to actually get those two tenants to have interesting little kind of corner edges that looked into that entrance space I have another we talked about this the last time too I'm still really struggling with the warmer colored brick it feels very applied it feels like it's just kind of pasted onto the front of the facade and the upper levels and I personally would prefer it was just gone and it was simpler it feels it feels like there's a lot of moves happening and I'm not sure that there I know they're trying to break down the scale of the building but to me they feel just very superficial and not very well integrated into the massing of the building and even a
072subtler approach where the color contrast wasn't so much but maybe they moved to a metal panel or something so that if that's more close to the color of the brick I just to me the buyer where they have the burn in the store and the market and you know it feels like it feels like a faux skyline it doesn't feel like an authentic change in scale so perfect I would rather see it cleaned up and simplified Alexis and metal panel allowed on the facades I didn't think it was allowed that could be wrong maybe it's just to actually go to a brick well you always have that challenge of you got to break the building up you got to do the massing you got to maintain the character overlay so I agree with you the
073code says following materials are permitted on facades visible from primary or secondary streets glass brick cut stone cast a stone or high-quality finished metal such as architectural grade cast or machined in the south university character district you're required to have a 45 foot building module but it but there is no then prescription for how to express the module and there is no requirement for any vertical modulation but it but we do require design details to break down massing so there's not a dimensional standard but there is a aesthetic standard you're talking all the light-brown the tan type brick and when you see it in elevation it has more richness than when you see it in perspective and she realize how thin it is yeah we worked hard to try and get at least that three-foot
074setback just like material skin but again that was through a lot of floor plan changes FA are driven decisions about where we need to be with the building and I think it was you know the three feet the three and a half feet that we have set back from the face of the orange brick better returns to where those vertical panels was at least what's some kind of a win especially when you look around at a lot of the developments going on in the city and it's it's flat as flat can be from the from the glass to the face of the orange brick is about three feet of a set of a recess floor plans it'll show the breaks in the recess from the from the dark brick of above it to the orange
075brick is do that again Diane where's me between the I thought the red brick and these are the vertical recess metal animal that run up it's three feet between the metal panel and the red brick okay but if you move to the right yeah because that's a brown brick and planes above it I think I do think this is more than we usually see the line yeah I really appreciate never to give as much value up there as you can get I like the building I agree with this comment about the potential to maybe raise the residential parapet to eliminate the railing and pick up some extra height there I think that still disappointed and I don't want to dictate or at least I don't want our board to dictate set it back or make
076it flush or make it glass or make it something it's like somebody said once about pornography I can't define it for you but I know what it is when I see it and I know that this isn't the look that I want for the corner of the building so you know and I don't want to dictate to you guys how to accomplish it you said you did a bunch of studies and I think that's great I'd be interested in seeing them otherwise I think I agree with all the comments about the corner in it and I was gonna say err phrase essentially what Jeff said well well know what we what we like when we see it this is not a distasteful design but it's not memorable and I assume that the owners have looked
077at this and said we don't want to take away from the primary entrance is primarily a residential building that happened to have some commercial on the first floor and I had recognized the the value of the land and the building and the costs and everything else but you want something to be really as a standout success success on that corner that's one of the most high foot traffic corners in the state of Michigan we owned a building near there affecting the other corner many years ago and I would foot traffic was the second highest in the state at that time it may be highest at this point and it would be nice to say meet me at a building near the intersection of East you and South you that's three colors of brick now how
078many buildings could that possibly be the tall building that's three colors of brick then I could name three or four or five but if you said meet me at the corner and where the the sand so is whatever that the sand so is away from that it couldn't go any further with but something that makes it memorable it could be a thing it could be the design but something that makes it a focal point we're trying to get a little more specific good when you characterize we told you last time that we didn't want it opened at the base and that was an you must have misunderstood us I think what the issue is is I'm looking at the drawing from February along South you there are three Bay's of glass facing north and along
079East you there to base of glass facing west and and so in the February submit all you you went back to base on and South you and created a symmetrical piece there that left you this is hard to visualize without a drawing that left you one Bay of glass along South you and the way that got treated was awkward and the there was something that and that was appealing about the freestanding column and being able to cut through that corner but how the backdrop as you walk further east was resolved was was what caught my eye and in February so and I agree with everyone it's the this it's still just no a missed opportunity and and you're the designers and I know you can give it some more thought I hope you do it's
080just it would be great to walk through that tunnel from the diag and see it frame something that that becomes a real feature yeah I think we can go we can go back and take a look at it I think we got a look at how that unit and that works there as well as some other aspects that are in the building we might be able to see what we can do so thanks thank on your your company is doing some really nice buildings in town and you profess to be just the construction guy but I pull than that in your company no I I do I'm one of the partners to take that out we're saying and see if they ya know and I and I have some things are rolling in my head
081I gotta run by them because they'll they know the design aspects way better than I do but I have some ideas based off of lorries comments as well that I think we can try to look at that I can I think will help make that a better building as well so I think something that memorable would add to the success of the building and that would be good for you and it'd be good to the community and I think what we're trying to say make it a meeting place you're seeing that generator is basically moving in the building so now that'll be open well so the generator where the generators out we're going to have four surface spaces right there but then along both sides we have like on the north side of tenant II
082there is a three foot walk I think that's three feet it's about three foot and then as well again on the south side along that there'll be a three foot walk as well correct yes yeah there's people come all the time because there usually is not a lot of vehicles in there because primarily pizza house comes in and pulls underneath the 611 building and then other than trash pickup in the in the morning really there's no other or an occasional delivery here and there it is it is passable limited interesting outdoor dining opportunities or sidewalks are fairly narrow through most of downtown and that could be a really weird and interesting little spot if you had art and you had lighting and you cultivated it we're seeing it all over a Detroit the alleys are
083becoming really vibrant spaces and you're juggling them with the trash and a lit area back there is primarily all trash as well we back deep in there yeah that whole area trash is all along there that's where it gets stored for trash pickup and everything part of the reason - for the four parking spots is obviously where we're going to be doing tool that this showed three levels what we're going to be do two levels of parking so there is going to be some aspects with the DDA of playing Lou and so that helps us with that calculation as well and that primary back aspect there is primarily service in nature too as well so and there's building above it and everything else I understand your comment but the don't preclude down the line there
084being other accommodations that allow that to happen versus the generator bills yeah yeah I think the biggest challenge there is you have all the utilities back there that that main transformer it's not a desirable area back there scene I didn't I've seen it happen and worse yeah true interest in it for the tenant standpoint which isn't you so that's fine thank you any other comments thanks for your presentation the Alexis do we have any communications from the Planning Commission as well the first is about an idea from the Public Art Commission and City Council the trying to paraphrase but some City Council members in conversation with some public art commission members have expressed a desire to inform private developers of the potential for public art on their projects during our private development review process and
085given that the DRB deals with design space and other aesthetic elements it has been suggested that the public art Commission could appoint one of its members as a non-voting liaison to the DRB to provide a perspective as to how public art may be incorporated into projects that come before the DRB it would require an ordinance change that the council members would need to introduce the public art Commission has not formally voted on this but they have discussed and I put it this I mentioned this idea for you I know this is coming out of the blue for you but any thoughts or preliminary feedback you'd like to take I can take back to the administration about your thoughts and I non it would be a eighth member a non-voting but a discussion member of the
086that is a referee liaison from the public art Commission any thoughts on that I don't there's an honest person their attempt to place public art around town by people that are concerned about tax monies being spent on such things and I really don't think it's appropriate to push it off on the developers I'm not against art just but if the city is saying that was the program they're going to pursue would you mind having a person join us to to review that I think that's what's just well first of all the answer to your question is no I wouldn't have joked but to say just so that I understand the the goal would be to help identify opportunities for including public art within development projects or what what would be what's the insight they want
087to provide I don't have much more information than than that other than what they had said inform private developers of the potential for public art in their projects and maybe this is still an evolving concept I can imagine that it's whether it just be carving space for it whether it is actually providing the art I believe it's all in the very early the tentative stages and I'm not sure where anybody thinks it might go but they are exploring so if you have thoughts about what what role some person could be or what role they should not take I'll take it all back I think another alternative might be to for them to provide us guidance of what they'd like to see as those opportunities and we can start to look for those in share those
088as opposed to having a a member I think a lot of times we're hearing that those opportunities are being considered already in the process particularly wall art as opposed to other sculpture but I think that that I'm not I'm not clear on what the objective would be other than that that we wouldn't be able to provide with some guidance that you know that could just be in support of the design guidelines there could be interpreted a number of ways and I think we need some more guidance on what they have in mind if we're a matter of urging or prompting developers to take on the role of providing the public art that might be outside our role as design reviewers we might provide developers with the opportunity I'm thinking off the top of my head
089of an opportunity to interact with the Arts Commission whatever it's now called for looking for opportunities but we already have a limited time for everyone on this board to express their opinion that have one more opinion come in with a different dimension might stretch the conversations out pretty dramatically would they want to come in and brief us on their intention would that be helpful at one of our meetings that might have later I think yes I think that as I said I'm not sure I was just asked for to gather some feedbacks maybe with this feedback it goes no further or maybe with this feedback a larger conversation has started okay sure I think you've heard our response well thank you for bringing that up anything else more in the housekeeping nature and Monday's City
090Council meeting Gary Cooper Commissioner Cooper sorry board member Cooper was nominated for reappointment and a new member was nominated name of Cory Buckwalter to fill the urban planner position now the mayor put forth these names to be nominated and then they will be confirmed by Council on in two weeks on their May 21st meeting so it is not official but I want to let you know that we have a nomination for our open seat and then the very final piece and I'll keep it super brief but in keeping the board up-to-date working backwards recent projects the design plan for 616 East Washington that was a very tall 19 story building that has been submitted and is under review by the planning by the review team it has not yet gone to planning commission I have
091no date scheduled yet the standard Ann Arbor that was we know it is 425 South Main Street DT office building that is also still under review it has not yet been scheduled for Planning Commission meeting the an Ashley parking structure the additional levels is going to Planning Commission on May 21st at the end of this month and on Monday city council approved a 309 North ashley Street project that was a smaller four-story l-shaped building Miller and ashley 321 321 North Main Elroy's place yes approved all done approved they are in they've submitted for permits which have not been issued yet and I think they are still doing costing and engineering and lining up ducks in a row but it appears to be moving forward at a slow pace thank you his term expired and he
092did not reapply there was a rumor that his that he wouldn't have been nated but I can't confirm that question about the an Ashley structure we reviewed that once or twice yes twice was a any final change when I'm not sure we saw the final version I can include at least a handout in the packet like to see what it looks like I honestly don't know it was assigned to a different planner and I didn't follow the very final design but good question I'll I'll include a rendering at least in the packet for FY I did not survive a good question I don't know I noticed when I came in that the project on Washington behind the Michigan theatre yes sketch on the front still looks the same anything else those are my three updates
093okay then we have a time for public comment and will allow three minutes per speaker no signup necessary please identify yourself and tell us what's on your mind yes my name is Ethel Potts and you had microphones today one of you used them thank you very much ma'am the end of the rest could be hurt I'm talking about the your first project on South Main this is in a character era area character overlay area like many of the new downtown projects are I do not notice that you mentioned this ever and any of the south new projects any of the projects because there's a strong discrepancy quite often between the d1 zoning and the character area that this describes in this case in particular this was the most minimal site plan I think I have
094ever seen not one inch beyond the owned property the the streets are not named there they're the railroaders and showed the existing curb cuts are not shown not no comment about the fact that this very complicated area with many kinds of businesses and and kinds of buildings right around they're very complicated but I think the site plan could have shown some of that and in your discussion I would like to have heard some recognition that there's this is a particular part of Ann Arbor it has very distinct characteristics which are not being which are not very much being being recognized I think this could turn out this is a difficult piece of land I think it could I turn out to be a good project but not from the amount we know now so far
095so far it's not good enough your second project on South you here we go again you know there's a character overlay district here which it talks about the narrower Lots you know the the small businesses the backing up to residential any of that show up in your discussion no not at all you the character the character overlay is not working and you I would like to think you would tell council that that you do not put out a report that doesn't mention the rest of the other aspects of the zoning which is the character overlay you should mention that and and you might even want to mention I think frankly council should be amending it amending these overlay areas because you are handicapped you cannot make use of them if they conflict with the underlying
096zoning why why do you put up with that why don't you complain why don't you make suggestions as to how that could be improved in the South you area I wrote you have I'm sure you all have it a list of the characteristics of that area that are being totally disregarded thank you thank you I'll endeavor to use the microphone here so hello my name is Dennis Burke I live at 528 South 4th Avenue and I put a significant amount of my personal income into my property with multiple design reviews and zoning redesigns and requirements as I've developed it over the years and I'm extremely distressed about the tone in nature of your discussion with the Union joints staff this is a destination bar restaurant that relies on a significant portion of its revenue in
097business plan for outdoor seating and outdoor live entertainment this is a residential area there have been millions and millions of dollars that you have approved in projects less than a block away high-end or residential our previous governor lives a half a block away in his multi-million dollar townhouse from this place in this restaurant bar destination restaurant will have lots and lots of noise there was a previous occupant of the old April dear which is next door which was a Leopold brothers brewery and it was an ongoing battle between the Old West Side residents and the residents on my street as to the noise levels at night frequently on the weekends the police were called after 9:00 p.m. to tell them to quiet down and I have no doubt should this project go forward that it
098will be the exact same case there is no amount of noise buffering that can attenuate alcohol imbibe crowds and live entertainment and that venue how many of you have actually taken the time to go walk this area take 10 minutes and go walk through these buildings they are the lowest cost possible denominator structures built in that area of town they are cheaply built they are cheaply engineered they have been allowed to decay there was no central heat and the wonderful concrete building that they talked about this is just the wrong project in the wrong place that district this overlay district is becoming one of the most sought-after high-end rental districts in the entire Midwest there are a multitude of projects you'll be considering the dte area redevelopment and a housing structure and I have no
099doubt that given time another developer will come along and they will have an appropriate residential business use for this land the only motivator for this company beyond doing something romantically interesting for the community is financial I have no doubt what they're paying for using these buildings it's significantly less than what they could give and have in the downtown dining entertainment music area that we already have that's where they should go and I intend to fight it thank you anybody else make wanna make comments three minutes mr. dinner I also am the coordinator of the downtown historic study and taury sort of group we've been involved in lots of things over the course of time and what we've done is created a multi-million dollar sort of project in the downtown the Kurt yesterday as a matter
100of fact we took 260 students from community high school various tours of the harvest history with regard to its importance in terms of who it is that we are and South University I lived in the amber a for 30 years and during the course of that time I was related to a lot of the stuff that was there all the people who were there read cry and the village apothecary and all that sort of thing their role really in creating the the Art Fair directly from the South University people themselves they clean their own speech they put up the locations where you could have public art actually for that yearly thing that we do and bring in all these people into the video I just want to say with regard of the nature of that
101is one of the things in terms of art we need to identify our project is being both art and its artistic one and education one and then what we've done is we've created on South University in those three blocks of situation in which we put in six elements of exhibits two glass frames and four wall images which are made of porcelain enamel in there currently they're moved to various locations some of them and they will be placed back we hope and what we're gonna work to have in place back perhaps in different locations in that area so that people can have a real sense that regard of what South University was over the course of time because those of us who lived in South University or those of us who lived in the the areas
102on the other side of Washington are County they walked down south University to get to the University of South the kind of real sense that they had that this was a part of the nature of their identity it's something that we refer to and both artistic and educational and I expect that I'll be speaking again perhaps not to this group but in other groups you know whether it's the Planning Commission the City Council on the nature of this issue and we support certainly other art in the area downtown but we paid for all the art we raise the money for all the others there and we hope that we can cooperate with the developers he really getting it back to an area where what we can do is conduct our tour is once again down
103South University and show people what it used to be and have that as a part of its identity in relationship to what's going there today we're not opposed to the nature of the development we want to see ourselves get as much as we possibly can out of it thank you thank you very much more comments I'd entertain a motion to adjourn all those in favor say aye we're adjourned you