001Thursday April 18th and it is 534 I will start with the call to order Commissioner khechari here commissioner young ear Commissioner Parker here commissioner Nemeth here and Commissioner wolf is not here at least as of yet now will approve the agenda for tonight's meeting motion to approve seconded all in favor and we'll open up to our first public commentary limited to agenda items only please speak for three minutes maximum this is a perfect time for the top three artists to move into the three vacant stalls at the market these stalls became available through a very fair process of going through the seniority lists no one picking those stalls at the last stall assignment in July of last year they were not picked because farmers didn't want that third stall so it left the three stalls
002vacant I think we all know about this right okay I think it would be wonderful if the three top seniority artists that have 25 years and move into those stalls I think that would be in good faith for everything they've contributed in the last quarter of a century at the market and I'd like this to happen now before the stall assignment in July also I would like to see this committee act on the paperwork to match what we do at market every Saturday there are three or four of us annual artists that take two stalls and pay for two and we've done this for 30 years but we're not allowed to pick two at the annual walkout so therefore we don't get two together if we could make the paperwork match what we actually do
003we could have the security of two stalls together be able to get there in the morning unload after 30 years of coming and then get out of the way of the dailies it would really smooth the process in the morning and I think if we did it even on a temporary let's see what happens basis everyone would see this does not change the artists numbers at all and it wouldn't actually even change the dynamics of the market at all except to make things run smoother in the morning which I think we all agree would be great thank you this first paragraph okay okay so concerning allowing artists to own two annual stalls instead of the one that we can now have the W was just talking about I propose we establish a process for asking
004for an exception to the rule instead of changing the rule at this time for artists who already take two stalls every day like Debbie does like I do to allow us to own the second stall this could be a segue into blending artists into just being regular members of the market which is the only fair and acceptable solution in the end because it would show it makes no difference to the mix since artists are already in the mix and those who want to stalls already take two stalls just to illustrate I am a daily artist not an annual how many stalls do I take every single Saturday nine months a year for the last 20 years in actual physical reality at the actual market as opposed to on an imaginary paper map of annual stalls
005I take two stalls I'm just not allowed to pick which stalls I take in a fair order I'm still at market in two stalls every day the way my proposal would work is once an artist gets up to the place where they would normally be skipped over to get the annual stall they could apply to be an exception to the rule and ask to be awarded the second stall if they have already been taking a second stall on a daily basis in reality at the market for years 10 20 30 years they would be told yes and get to own the next available style according to their actual seniority like everyone else if an artist who has always only taken one stall which there's a lot of asked for an exception to get to stalls
006based on this idea they would be told no at this time this idea can be tweaked in its details but I hope that the basic idea could allow for vendors like Debbie Marx to own a second stall at this time without going full-blown into changing the rule to allow all artists to automatically take to annual stalls again doing show so will show us no harm is done by allowing Debbie to own the two stalls that she already takes every day at the market then we'll be able to see that concept play out in reality and it will help us realize there's no logical reason not to go ahead and blend artists fully into the regular seniority list as that is the only fair and acceptable solution and as it will not change the mix as
007artists are already in the mix once they are accepted to the market as vendors in the first place thank you thank you now we will approve the minutes from the March meeting motion to approve I was I now we will move on to our market manager report I think this was I guess I was wondering if we are making a vote in my report to give you an update okay so we'll move on to the market manager report all right so there's a couple I'll be filling you in about so if you have any questions or comments while I'm going through this please feel free to interject so parking lots between the market and Carytown building is received this week so that's gonna be done by Saturday to match our other nice smooth parking lot
008and the gutters are scheduled to be replaced this month so this certificate of insurance since I wrote this has gone through and so hopefully starting that soon maybe next week update on the daily artisans moving to the three extra annual stalls so just as a reminder at our last meeting we agreed to suggest put it out there too the fenders that PMAC would recommend the three artisans at the top of the list move up to three extra stalls that we had left over after stall s event last year and then not change the overall number of stalls normally given artisans which is twelve in the market rules but this be kind of like a one-time thing so for example if an artisan were to retire then the next stall would go to a producer and
009so on until we got back to that twelve I think we had thought this was kind of the least disruptive and maybe like a good first step to see how that went and also the other part of that recommendation was for this Commission to revisit how we how the artisans do you work within the market at least once every three years to see if it's still good good best practice for us and also looking this commission looking at percentage of each type of food that we have at the market and trying to set goals for that so saying like 15 percent artisan you know thirty percent vegetable that kind of thing so after bringing this back to city staff I think we just want to be careful about how we do this because the market
010rules do say the stall shall not exceed 12 for the artisans and so we want to especially like legally going forward just make sure that we're doing it correctly so that you know we don't jump try to do something and then it backfires I think it could hurt both artisans if that happened it could hurt us so we're you know just kind of looking at it a little more and up to see do we need to make a rule change do we have the authority to do this you know is this within our authority and if not then we would have to go and actually change the operating rules so that's where we are my goal is to get an answer by next meeting and I really want to know by that how we do
011the next all assignment this next I'll move up which is gonna be midsummer any Weston's about that so the city is helping you with that that process of figuring out the legalities and things like that yeah so we're gonna have you know we're gonna look over it have legal kind of take a look because it does possibly affect the operating rules so yeah so then my other the other pieces of that however the Commission wanting to set percentages and goals I think we can still move forward with and I it's like to me be put it on the agenda for next month okay market infrastructure update so we are kind of moving along I was able to meet with Kohler architecture they are the ones that designed the building for us and are really familiar
012with the space and we requested maybe they come up with a very rough sketch draft idea of what it might look like to have the sidewalls on the current structure that that was something we had agreed to look into as the commission and so I think they're gonna go and come up with two of possibilities one being a lighter not fabric maybe like canvas wall type thing and another being something maybe more concrete and heavier like a glass or plastic sidewalls and then I requested it you know can we make about infections along the outside of the market can we make them first a towel so we can open and close them very easily maybe even on a day-by-day basis to get in and get out for loading and then closing down during the day
013during the market that kind of thing so in the beginning stages but they are able to come up with a draft plan for us we also we're pretty specific we don't want them to get too far down the road before being able to bring it back and really think through it through a lot of people like possibly of course this commission but also you know maybe going back to the vendor and Community Advisory Commission's that we had had for the market building because we don't want to have like a finished design and then bring it to someone we want to have a rough lane so that's kind of where we are now and I guess I would love to hear two thoughts from the Commission on something you would really want to make sure was
014in that initial proposal one thing that there's windows or some way to let daylight in otherwise it's just going to feel like a giant cave well this is really exciting and thanks Stephanie for initiating that I think something we've talked about over the months is having sort of like a staged rollout plan so that they could come up with a plan that could be done in a section to start and then alert you know based on funding and how we're gonna finance this whole thing if they could come up with something modular maybe or you know that can be done in sections not only for funding but to have as little impact on the vendors that are coming every time every week to the market I also like to say you know I think a
015reason to you for making this for not going too far with us as we are gonna have to at some point decide how does it fit in with the current building structure once we have a I'd like to first have a budget once we have an idea of how much does it cost I think then we need to have the discussion okay is it possible to do this as an interim how far does the set us off from the building plan and and and compare that to you or is it too much does it take too much away from the building and is the building still the structure we want to pursue or not so I think that that's a big conversation once we have a budget we will have as well and then I
016don't know I think we talked about the assessment of the foundation being a big cost this what they're coming up with for us would just be putting in new posts to attach the walls to as opposed to putting it on the ceiling in which case we don't need to do a assessment of the foundation or redo that nation so that equates that which is nice so it would be a new set of posts and going a new set of pulses going in to attach the walls to is my understanding when they come up with those plants I'm a real spatial thinker and and so and I don't know if it had help for you guys as vendors if they could just like chalk it out or paint it out there because I'm wondering how much
017new posts would be in the way for the loading and unloading do you know is it like it's not gonna be one door per stall is it probably one every two or three probably whenever two or three what but I'm not sure they are I mean part of this is they're gonna come up with some very specific renderings for us where we'll be able to look this is what they gave us for the buildings so I can show you but it will be able to look at it like an overhead map of each stall with the style numbers included and see where those posts are going so yeah I will be able to see and I think that's like one thing that we as the mission or a vendor or community Commission would be looking
018at is how can we supposed not be in the way and then just for thinking about it Alex's idea of doing this modulae the the doors are really needed for winterizing the market and so for thinking about that really cold time of year currently how many vendors I just an estimate of how many vendors do you have clearly if it's winterize there could be many more vendors wanting to come so the right now in the winter we have about 20 vendors that come and then they take up a few more salt than that I would say we asked the machiya come up with an idea that would enclose a proposal that would enclose that whole main aisle from the querido to the office and that I think we can anticipate being able to accommodate more
019vendors thank you any other no no updates in regard to funding for the market building right now hmm the food truck rallies um bloom Meade works will be participating this year they'll be so they make their own meat and cider and they will be we have a little roped-off area for them to serve so I'm excited about that because you know it gets all our values that highlights know their producer using local honey and local apples to make their product they will be there which is great and then starting in June Michigan theatre will be showing movies on their big blowup movie screens after the rallies end so people can stick around and they can watch movies that's pretty good and we're also making stairways requirement this year for the rally's registration well I haven't
020now open for City workplace GSA's pick up it's not actually quite open yet I have the registration page almost ready but it's not quite ready to go this is the pilot project will be doing a workplace pick up for CSA boxes from for participating farms we offered it to all vendors and it really kind of just fits those that had CSAs that were boxes and that did drop off at market so we'll be bringing the boxes to City Hall free and upper and place to pick up I just wanted a little update on our partnership with the librarian hundredth birthday the library is going to be doing an exhibit for us in July and August and we'll have a lot of old photos in history up lisa has been helping a lot put together with
021us information and the pictures they'll be a reception in July and the markets also going to be part of the summer games this year with the library so a lot of people participate and they'll have to come to the market to be able to like fill out their cards just say they've participated in the game I just wanted to say that we asked the archivist at the library how many people participate in those summer games and he said there's like 9,000 active players so it's really great market to shop update yes remember this program we did last year we've combined with Argos they offer very similar to what we were offering an online ordering system sent out to chefs they have pickup at their location on Packard and they are opening it up to any
022farmers in Arbor farmers market vendor who's a has produced that wants to participate even if they're not in Argos fender and we'll also be sending a newsletter along with those communications with chefs but what we have brushed up the market with lots of pictures also trying to encourage couples to come to market just a little easier than us using an Excel document to take orders yeah and an artist also can offer payment and invoices and receipt and refrigeration which shows key so sorry the change in that is just that you guys won't have to be doing all that management of and coordinating we won't be creating the list the ordering list and the availability from farmers and sending it to the chef's Argos we'll be doing that part of the market 100th birthday will be
023offering a communal like farm-to-table dinner in the market space hopefully for the fall using vendor products and chefs that are local so planning is starting for that soon we have a new staff member starting Jermaine Smith she's great she has a background and you know doing a lot of work with minority communities and outreach to like POC communities she used to work with the Wow I'm blanking on the name senator she now she works for the county and she does like conflict resolution so she'll be a great and Becky is actually being promoted to assistant farmers market manager and outreach coordinator so she'll be paid a little more and hopefully have some more hours and be able to work out more in our community outreach and and getting those community groups and people into the
024market and those relationships are really strengthening though it's like I think with the schools and with the camps and there's just a lot more we can do to bring them to us and us to them and well Becky will be on that so this suggests the city's putting a little more getting a little more staffing at the market if well it's the same number of staff but I think Becky will have more hours so yeah that's great and then finally I just included this article that all about Ann Arbor wrote about the market and it's 100 here it has a lot of cool history and photos and so just included that for if you hadn't seen it yet same it's a great article that's all I have unless there are any comments or questions on
025anything I went over now we will open up to our second public comment period and looking at the approach for the sides at the market and the radiates heat and the sensible approach that we've really needed for a long time I think if we keep those sides light and make it like canvas with clear windows like you said job and maybe even on the east side have something that could be shaded only really would be needed on that east side and then the other side have the clear open and it could be in Toledo we saw the roll-ups where they could roll up partway you know be up high for a breeze or whatever and you could control it that way and then the work the weight is light that way also I'd like to
026make a comment on the entertainment that was there at the market last Saturday it was most annoying I hope that never happens again ok yeah ok oh she wants me to brush that to the site ok it's nice when we have things at the market but you have them right in the middle is not good and then to take over the speaker system was quite offensive now we know that works nicely though we could have good music thank you very much see you at the farmers market I missed that one of the entertainments so I want to talk about the winterizing building plans - I liked Nancy Willoughby's idea you know we've always said why don't we just do that put a same roof over and if we could have it flush to the ground
027and still use that for parking because parking is so real for us it really is people are buying flats of flowers they're buying their weekly groceries they're not a 65 year old lady's not gonna and I love everything Stephanie's looking at the sides the heat the radiant heat so just going forward I ask and you guys have already mentioned a bunch of this but that you considered plans that will that include the whole market or could eventually cover the whole market think about the vendors who would not get to go into the winterized area would be affected the market stuff in the winter think about how much tougher it will be for those next two but left out of the building or warmed area either because they can't fit their goods in a six-foot space
028like the building would be or because they've been unfairly left out of the seniority system and they can't be in the building they'll get you know B or because you know they don't have enough family members or employees to have one stall inside the building and two stalls outside or even because they don't qualify because they don't have enough need like a vegetable that must not freeze in the warm area will attract the customers and leave the other vendors out more in the cold than ever and when we talk about winter since this very first started its like January February March well come sit at the market for 10 hours in December and tell me that's not winter and there's a lot more than 20 vendors in December and if we're there in December which
029it is a proven fact that December is a busy shopping time in the United States of America if you go in the carry town building or if you go to Target or Best Buy on the way home from market you cry because you've been sitting out there in the freezing cold with this virus amount of customers and you go inside and it's just you can't even move through a store so if we have this small little warmed area that people can go in and Chris and then we have twice as many vendors outside it's gonna be painful for those vendors who get stuck outside so I hope that whatever I hope we can come up with something that will cover that will be fair to all vendors and leave a portion of vendors out in
030the cold outside that area even if maybe it's something that will take a little while to roll out to the whole market I hope it is something that can eventually be rolled out to the whole market hi I'm Darren Otis I'm a 30 year vendor at the farmers market and I made notes because I get real nervous in January Stephanie and I looked at the question how can we get more customers to the markets and we're talking about not only the farmers market but we have our Sunday market and the Northfield farmers market was included in the conversation initially also I send out a monthly newsletter to 650 customers so in my January newsletter I posed some open-ended questions like what do you like best about the market you attend what do you like the
031worst I had asked customers to phone me and I just let them talk I don't like pre-done forms because they limit your your answers if somebody might have something on their mind that isn't on your form and you don't hear it so I took notes the results were really surprising about 30 people called me so I grant you it's not a significant huge significant number but these are customers who are very loyal to the market no one that I talked to said that events are live performances would make any difference in their desire to come to the market once they're there they might enjoy music I don't know but nobody said they would come because something was going to be going on but the number one thing that Ann Arbor customers talked about was parking
032some of them even yelled at me they said they cited how the market area has changed over the years one person said I have to get up at 6:30 just to get there and get a parking space another one said I can't farm right I can't find parking close by and I have problems walking so I can no longer come that's really serious these are good loyal customers of the market who are coming less often or have stopped coming altogether because of the lack of parking I also realized in doing my own survey that when you conduct surveys at the market your results are skewed because who you're serving are people who are already there people who have trouble getting there or get discouraged and leave or have come once and stopped coming which I
033also heard you know we came once and it was so horrible that we never came back or people who have stopped coming all together you're not hearing from those people and I think those numbers are significant you say that people can park in the structure and walk to the market but customers cannot walk with several pounds of produce a small loading zone would be very much needed I think it would simply take some signage a designated area and perhaps a volunteer we have to remember that there are many other places besides our market where customers can go to buy fresh produce yes some customers find ways to overcome the obstacles they encounter but many are finding alternatives and once a customer finds those alternatives they're gone my second concern is the lack of space where
034vendors can unload the space Ilan v now the reek the construction that's been finished along v the space along the curb which used to be I think three spaces is now one large space so only one vehicle can unload there and last year one of our vendors got a ticket there it's 6:30 in the morning while they were unloading the northern part of Detroit Street along the curve or Detroit Street funnels into fifth is no longer feasible we used to be able to park three or four vehicles along there but that's not feasible because of all the concrete barriers now the short walls that have been put in place the northern part of Detroit Street is not available because other vendors are using that to unload and as far as I can see the spaces
035on 4th are pretty much handicapped or designated no parking so when the market is full again probably in May I think the only vendors who are going to find unloading convenient are the ones whose spaces come with parking of a hundred and forty four spaces in the market at least seventy five of them do not come with parking the market area has become more congested over the past five years when and if you move forward with the building the congestion and parking problems will become impossible this is my opinion there will be less parking for customers and vendors alike and much less space where vendors can unload as vendors encounter more stress and inconvenience they also might find alternatives the Ann Arbor farmers market is not the only market in southeastern Michigan vendors can and
036will and our finding of their markets last December the market was only half full I think we have three Saturdays and my perception was the market was half full five or six years ago there were vendors on the sidewalk what's happening do you know I think it's worth asking I encourage you to look at the logistical problems and take them very seriously things are changing and the customers you survey at the market are not giving you a complete picture of customer satisfaction let's get ideas from customers and vendors I think there is a trend that is not being addressed let's look at it head-on before it gets worse and please reconsider the building you are losing customers and vendors now if you continue to lose customers and vendors if my perception is correct the building
037will be a moot point and the building also if it's built worries was resolved and a lot more congestion in the Carey town area thank you for listening before we close I think there were Darrin had some and they all had some great points maybe putting ways to look at the problem of loading and unloading and parking as an agenda on my next meeting could be a good thing to review and even if this commission doesn't have any ideas maybe like I just for how we can reach out to get ideas from vendors or something is there a map with a new configuration with the street construction and things like that that's finished that shows the loading and unloading zones yeah yeah we can yes vendor unloading from let's say 5:30 to 7:00 a.m. where
038nobody else needs to park there anyway where vendors would be worried about giving a ticket because right now you know I park there in the morning but it's handicapped and I think so the suggestion I'm just gonna repeat in the microphone was to designate parking on 4th for loading only for vendors maybe from 5:00 to 7:00 in the morning and all those spaces so no one gets ticketed and it's not the only handicap parking at the market no there's antique a park and a trade straight and 4th Street do you know when is it republic parking that does the meters on 4th or 7 and so when do they start coming around I don't know yeah can you guys just speaking in the microphone so one problem with the construction with and it was a
039problem before because they have that loading zone it used to be it used to be commercial it used to be commercial vehicles only and now it's non commercial vehicles only but we have both we have commercial vehicles and non commercial vehicles that need to unload in the one purchase spot one unloading zone I think the change was made on that loading zone because of the new median so it's about you know maneuverability for humor shal commercial truck in there anymore yeah and I have asked if we could if there's any flexibility there and it doesn't sound like there is so it's I mean it's going to remain designated the way it is I don't think it's enforced at 6:30 in the morning all I know is Maxine used to call somebody and just yell at
040him I think it's more of a concern for packing up at the end of the day but yeah and in the morning at least as of yet I have not heard I mean first of all you don't have really a deadline no packing up is easier because people leave in a staggered way and so but in the morning we're all trying to unload at the exact same time so it's more jammed up yeah I understand as I know it's it's a big issue it's always been an issue I don't think we have a perfect solution for it I think it's worth talking about I think loading zones we tried those last year we didn't advertise them well though so maybe doing that better would be something but again we can talk about it I think
041next meeting and put it as an agenda item one big difference with loading and unloading when the market was full 25 30 years ago honestly all the young people in the dailies would help the annuals we help Florence we helped everybody I would hand my baby to somebody and we would jump on the back of those trucks and we would unload do you remember that theorem and we would say we're doing this and someday someone's gonna do this for us this is how we did back thirty years ago the young we were in our 20s in our 30s okay 30s those trucks and load those big for these elderly people and this is what people did back then it was really more community and that's why I'm glad Becky's bringing the community into this because
042we do need volunteers we do need young people to help carry the produce to the structure for those people where science have little they could work by donations they could make money it is good to get the whole community involved and unloading is the hard part to get out of the way for the next person so yeah if we all work together and remember that and kind of do you don't see people helping each other too much with that anymore but yeah the good old days thanks you guys um I just have a question that other city parks my during events must have something and I'm wondering if there's like tags for vehicles if there's already some City protocol on loading and unload that sense the farmers market is part of city parks I don't
043know but I just wanted to say maybe there is some protocol already out there especially for street parking to have some changes at the Natural History Museum if I had to be there temporarily they would give me or like when I go up to the Bentley library I get a little tag that says I can park in there a lot for a while one thing we discussed once in the past was considering changing the sign in and set up times for you know like maybe even moving things up earlier in the morning to sort of alleviate that pressure like that rush of unloading in the morning and maybe freeing up some of the congestion with people needing to use loading and unloading zone so maybe that's something we could talk about but I feel like
044there are two different issues there's parking and then there's unloading those are - yeah there's customers and there's vendor pender parking and there's vendor I think it would be really helpful for us to have sort of a breakdown of that let's call them unintended consequences of some of the changes and maybe some options that you know have been identified as things that we could consider for for each of these and I love the idea of considering what other urban markets have done I mean we can't you've got to imagine like San Francisco and Seattle and other places have even more of an issue with dealing with loading and unloading of vendors and in downtown area markets so there might be some comparison that we could do even Eastern Market at Eastern Market though the vendors
045know the night before where they're going to be setting up right yeah yeah okay good yeah I think this is there's a lot of ideas and yeah definitely worth looking into mark yeah I don't think vendors knowing ahead of time is much of the answer for one reason at the Sunday market we had a couple times we had events and so we decided it would be really helpful to have everybody commit in advance either they're coming or they're not we had sign-up sheets and it was so funny because as the day came and went what happened was what I expected to happen which is that a lot of the vendors who said they were coming didn't come but they didn't want to lose their space so they had said they'd be there the end these
046were annuals they would they said they would be there so they could have their space and then they didn't show up and so it didn't really make that much difference whether we knew they were coming I think what would help is if the annuals who have spaces without parking like like the Amish if they so a couple two weeks ago I didn't take the space I wanted because they pulled in right at 7:00 like five minutes before 7:00 and I said I'm probably going to take that space and they said well well unload I think they can unload that quickly and so if the annuals who know where they're gonna be could get in and out well before now it's 7:00 but soon it's going to be six you know well before that time it
047would free up it would free up some space but our parking lot is just so tight that unfortunately Stephanie can't be out there because she's in the office to see what actually goes on a couple years ago I was threatened with expulsion from the market because when I pulled in one of the big growers trucks was I'm alive and I said to the managers assistant I have to get in and she said I can't help you right now because I've got take care of assigning the dailies and I said but once you assign the dailies there will be even more people behind me and that truck will not be able to get out and I will not be able to get in because there will be more congestion and she was new she didn't understand
048it and the following week Sarah emailed me and said if you ever do that again you will be expelled from the market and it was just like one truck there that hadn't pulled out yet kept everything at a standstill and it's just it's the nature of that parking lot you know if you want to stagger it you're gonna have to start getting people to come in at you know 5:00 to 4:30 in the morning which some of them I think do that's exactly the new parking lot and the corner there by Kerry Town where I go especially bad I have no parking with my stalls I pay for parking all year just in case but it's nothing I make an issue of I get their ridiculous o'clock so that I can unload in my one
049stall that I know I'm going to have get the heck out of Dodge because every other week we have patty come in she also is in that corner has no parking that's four stalls in that corner with no parking that we have to unload so we just get there ridiculously early as a respect to our neighbors and our make it as easy on ourselves as possible and for people that come after it's what you do especially when you've come this long you want to get in and get out you want to park and be gone and be out of the way and maybe a little reminder to everyone this time of year to keep that in mind and do that you know not to pull in the lot and wait to you know you see
050it all the time we yell at people don't hurt their you know so you don't have to but anyway it's that time we have to remind people yeah come early unload in your stall go and try to go in your stall that helps you know and then of course the two stalls furnace would help then I could unload oh no then and then get out okay thanks yeah I would just go one step beyond what you're saying duh because I think you no you're you are thinking of other vendors and you're being mindful of the bigger picture but not everyone is gonna think that way so rather than reminding vendors that it might be nice to come a little earlier I think we should think about formalizing a policy around staggered staggered set up for
051annual vendors because and you know if you if you don't make it a rule not everyone's gonna follow it so this will give me a good something to add to the outline like Holly requested for next meeting maybe breaking down problems and then some potential solutions we can work it there awesome if there's no other business we're ready to call an adjournment motion to adjourn second all in favor aye hi we haven't turned the meeting at 6:22 you