Environmental Commission 12-6-18

001like to call the meeting of the environmental Commission to order ms Drennan would you please call the role sure Commissioner Graham Commission Chair Needham here councilmember Smith Commissioner Slovak Commissioner Murphy present Commissioner upheld here Commissioner rego commissioner get Randall here council member Bannister here commissioner callewaert Commissioner Brown Commissioner Hutton and vice-chair of Skinner absent okay first order of business is approval of the agenda do we have a motion to approve the agenda second all in favor aye opposed and next up is the approval of our minutes from the October 25th meeting do we have a motion to approve those minutes second any additions or Corrections other than ones that have already been made on what to start how in favor of approving I propose next up we have public commentary are any members of the

002public here wishing to speak to the Commission if you do please just come up front to the microphone please state your name for the record and we'd ask that you can find your remarks to three minutes I'm sorry my name is David shoenberger SCH o N BER ger and I live in the city of Ann Arbor currently in Ward 5 formerly in Ward 1 and I'm here today to register my support for the environmental Commission's proposed resolution which I helped to write urging the City Council to advocate that our state and federal governments should provide annarbor residents with an expanded level of public health protection for improved emergency preparedness consistent with newly strengthened Canadian standards better population level protection is warranted as a Fukushima lessons learned measure given the potential for an accident at the

003Fermi nuclear power plant in southeast Michigan today's special presentation to the environmental Commission is a collective effort supported by multiple organizations thank you all for listening and we look forward to your feedback thank you Thanks anyone else hear from public comment I'm Jeff Ellison I'm Mike I've lived in a number for 40 years and recently retired from the US EPA where I worked to reduce vehicle pollution I thank you all for your public service I also strongly support the proposed resolution which is which urge the City Council to endorse the American Thyroid disassociations call for a strategic stockpile of potassium iodide tablets throughout the 50 mile radius from the fermi two nuclear power plant which includes Ann Arbor potassium iodide tablets are a simple cheap and proven protection against radioactive iodine which is particularly dangerous

004to children and pregnant women local stockpiling is critical so the residents can be protected immediately after any nuclear emergency annarbor residents deserve the same common-sense protection that Canada provides its citizens who live within 50 miles of nuclear plants thank you thanks anyone else for public commentary okay there will be another opportunity for public commentary at the very end of the meeting under unfinished business we have consideration of our commission bylaws that was introduced at our last meeting as one one item in the bylaws that were presumably adopting here or considering at least is following Robert's Rules of Order which do state for requests a resolution to be considered that we should make a motion to adopt and a second and then discussion following which we haven't always done I think I may have dropped the

005ball on that so I'm gonna try to try to be good about that going forward so before we get into anything do we have a motion to approve the environmental Commission bylaws thank you later a second great so is there any further discussion or further amendments to the bylaws all in favor aye opposed okay on to new business and we do have a special presentation about nuclear emergency planning so several months ago I was approached by Jeff Olson who just spoke during the public comments if Ann Arbor would consider and specifically the environmental Commission taking up a resolution in support of increased emergency preparedness and you can say Public Health protections for Ann Arbor residents specifically but also obviously for southeastern Michigan and the state living near nuclear power plants but this would also obviously

006protect residents for any type of nuclear event for example if there was a dirty bomb or anything else and so after a lot of joint work emails phone conferences trading of resolutions it we're at the point where we are tonight use hopefully I'll receive the documents and had a chance to look at them but I'd like to introduce Paul Gunther who actually flew in from Washington DC area to be able to present this evening and he's going to introduce the topic and then hopefully we can have some good discussion on the topic maybe you can introduce yourself a little bit better than I did from from the beginning there you go very good well thank you again my name is paul gunter I'm director of the reactor oversight project with beyond nuclear beyond nuclear is

007a public interest advocacy group we're based in to come apart Maryland which is just outside of Washington DC I've been covering the nuclear issue of both from the nuclear weapons and nuclear power side since 1975 but in our current capacity one of the issues that we have been following closely is the idea of emergency planning and particularly the advent of revelations following the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear accident in Japan in March of 2011 which sparked a lot of review of current emergency preparedness around nuclear power stations and as you're all aware the city of Ann Arbor is 30 to 35 miles away from the fermi nuclear power station you see it there with the asterisk there are essentially two emergency planning zones around typically for US nuclear power stations there is a ten-mile evacuation planning zone

008the larger the darker circle around the Fermi plant there which is located in Monroe Michigan and then a much larger 50-mile ingestion pathway zone marked by the outer rim there and you see the location of the Fermi plant there this particular emergency planning zone and this is in fact unique in that it spans an international border between Canada and the United States and thus divided between the jurisdictions and oversight of the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission and the states of Michigan and Ohio and the Ontario provincial government so it's it's quite unique there are a few other nuclear power stations along the Canadian nuclear power station but just in u.s. terminology I've described the evacuation planning zone which is 0 to 10 miles and then of the ingestion pathway which

009is 10 to 50 miles in Canadian terms that's the primary zone within zero to ten and the secondary zone within ten to fifty and I think that what were the unique moment that we're here tonight is to consider of what is in fact a medical community consensus that the predistribution of potassium iodide or ki is it's commonly referred is a safe effective and essential adjunct action to evacuations sheltering and avoiding contaminated food and water following a nuclear incident which could range from a nuclear accident at a power facility a dirty bomb or in on their nuclear war so let's see obviously the consideration of this resolution Falls clearly in your area of concern and focus and so you know we're quite pleased that you're here with the idea of not only building a safe community

010in context of this particular issue but also the idea of preparedness and resilience to the the advent of admittedly a rare event but one that clearly needs to be considered and prepared for the the concern of course is that the Enrico Fermi nuclear power station which is the subject of the focus tonight here is it's practically identical in design and materials to the Fukushima Daiichi facility that you see these these these two pictures here this is a particularly controversial design I won't go into any great detail at this at this juncture but the the multiple containment failure at Fukushima Daiichi demonstrated that this is a vulnerable design and while the the circumstances of the Fukushima Daiichi accident were clearly unique the the the the problem of course is that there was there is a design

011flaw in the the the Marquand boiling water reactor design that the containment essentially is too small and this has been known since 1972 acknowledged by both the Atomic Energy Commission and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission so what what we're here to do to is to say that nuclear axes and accidents are credible and therefore preparedness is justified this is just a quick review of the far-reaching consequences of a nuclear accident of the Chernobyl facility obviously of a different design a graphite moderated reactor again with a questionable containment from the very beginning but the consequences of that accident were far-reaching what you're looking here at is two maps one of Chernobyl one of Fukushima Fukushima Daiichi this is these are radioactive deposition maps of radioactive fallout principally cesium 134 and 137 these are this is particulate but

012the concern here tonight is about the the spread of radioactive iodine which is a gas and while you can't see this gas and it's deposition can be mapped out it is highly mobile so what you're seeing in terms of the heavier particulate fallout the the gas preceded this fallout and consequently raises the concern that public preparedness needs to be done in advance pop that population needs to be educated and prepared because time is going to be of the essence in addressing the public mitigation and public health for public health and safety so but you know once considered incredible we've now seen demonstrated effects of the the far-reaching effects and long-lasting effects but for iodine-131 we're essentially talking about an eight-day half-life so typically you're looking ten half-lives for the biological effect of a particular radioactive

013isotope so you know 80 days is the the biological impact for radioactive iodine the the the situation is is that our stable iodine is an essential nutrient that is it's used to produce thyroid hormones that are essential to human development and metabolism however the the thyroid itself cannot distinguish between stable iodine and radioactive iodine and so the uptake of radioactive iodine increases the risk of thyroid cancer and metabolic disorders particularly in children infants and the fetus and so the youngest bear the greatest risk and consequences so the the the whole idea of issuing potassium iodide is if it's ingested in time it provides for a prophylactic effect to the thyroid gland and saturates the gland was stable iodine and thereby blocks the uptake so the the the idea is that this is a safe effective

014and affordable and justified prophylactic action that's been proven safe by the World Health Organization and the US Food and Drug Administration more recently the American Thyroid Association has been referenced has said that the the pre distribution of potassium iodide for an ingestion immediately following nuclear accident is an essential adjunct to evacuation sheltering and avoiding contaminated food milk and water this was published by the American Thyroid Association in their publication thyroid in July of 2017 we've been working with the American Thyroid Association to educate the public and its representatives on the importance of upgrading emergency preparedness in the United States for the the the medical community's recognition that that this particular prophylactic action is is timely so in their scientific statement again in July of 2017 they defined the the emerge the emergency planning zone again

015in two zones the zero to ten mile radius for the distribution of ki in advance or pre distribute to individual households with extra stockpiles and emergency reception centers beyond the ten mile evacuation zone they are also recommending that the secondary zone the ingestion pathway zone ten to fifty mile radius to stockpile potassium iodide in local public facilities such as schools hospitals clinic police and fire stations community centers for distribution upon notification by local officials now this is the second note of time that the American Thyroid Association has reached out as to lobby legislature and the emergency planning officials on the benefits and advantages that potassium iodide brings but this is this is the updated version that they now have so this is a this was a again most recently updated on November 28th 2018 by

016the American Academy on pediatrics and I'll quote from their policy paper just out now less than a week and it says quote because treatment of ki should be commenced immediately before or during the passage of a radioactive cloud in an event which radio iodine's are released ki supplies need to be stored where readily available to the public storage in the national strategic stockpile will not allow for timely distribution of materials ki should be stockpiled in hospitals public depart health departments and other local facilities so that is the you know gives you an idea of a medical consensus however on a regulatory level following the the Fukushima Daiichi accident a number of federal and national regulatory bodies around the world began to review the emergency planning around nuclear power stations in February 8th of 2016 after

017review the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission which is responsible for emergency planning and oversees the the regulatory oversight of u.s. reactors they approved a staff recommendation that no further regulatory action is needed for expanding emergency planning zone for ki prophylaxis around u.s. nuclear power facility so no action was taken on the part of the new of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for the Enrico Fermi nuclear power station or any other of the 97 other nuclear power stations here in the United States so currently as it stands ki is only stockpiled within the ten-mile emergency planning zone the evacuation planning zone and it is being made available to the population that that asks for it and on designated days there are distribution centers open within the the evacuation planning zone where a member of the public in the

018evacuation zone can take a voucher that's delivered to them in the mail and then they can exchange it for a free dose for their household under the the current there are medical reviews here in the state of Michigan that last count only about 16 percent of the population within the ten-mile radius around the fermi nuclear power station actually takes advantage of that availability and that's in part due because there's not of an effective education program but it does stand in sharp contrast to what happened in Canada where again of the the Fermi nuclear power station in its emergency planning zone extends into on southern Ontario in 2014 in fact what happened was that the the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission which oversees Canadian reactors so these are by different design of course these are CANDU reactors

019and the Ontario provincial nuclear emergency response plan by the the provincial government they drafted a 2014 review of emergency planning around Canadian reactors and they essentially said that the population needs to be better protected looking at the what happened in in Fukushima and so what they did was they mandated that by 2015 populations within six miles of Canadian reactors would have ki delivered directly to their homes and that populations out that 30 miles would have stockpiles in strategic areas that would make it readily available to the population upon notification by officials to to be prepared and to get to distributed and also your if you're Canadian you can if you're within 30 miles you can request that ki be delivered to your home on request the the that plan was then updated in 2016 by

020petition from local governments in southern Ontario to have it the equal protection for Canadians from us reactors and so in December of 2017 Canadians around you in within the Fermi's own in the davis-besse nuclear power station and in the Perry nuclear power station have been receiving potassium iodide both within the ten-mile EPC and the 50-mile so Canada harmonized their emergency planning to the emergency planning that the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission uses for their for our for our nuclear power stations so that is that's the state of play currently so here you see this is from the canadian nuclear power stations from the u US nuclear power station in fermi the provincial plan and for the town of Amherstburg ontario this is the primary zone people are getting ki delivered directly to their home addresses in

021this zone and so this would be within the ten-mile radius here you see the 50 mile radius into southern ontario so we have now Windsor and Essex and Amherstburg and the most recent addition is in Chatham where you see the X the asterisks there so that's right at the 50-mile line and they're going to be filling in these other zones as this is now a mandate so here you see the whole issue as it's playing out right now actually within the last few days Ontario's also started the distribution for the Perry nuclear power station which is further to the east of this map but that 50-mile EPC does extend into into southern Ontario for beach cottages so the the Canadian government is taking this pre distribution very seriously in protecting its public's health from the

022the event of a nuclear accident at the fermi nuclear power station so sir I don't mean to cut you off but we do have a packed agenda tonight could could thanks a lot do they do the commissioners have any questions so first first question is when you talk about the dosage that everybody would take they just take one pill or do they take one pill a day or do they take one one pill a day and the dosage varies on an adult and child or infant so these are FDA approved doses so when you're talking about stockpiling enough do we have an idea of the amount that we need within the area or at least within the city it would be for every I mean the key the kiyose is children infants pregnant women and

023so the youngest populations are the most at risk okay so so the short answer to my question is we don't have a specific number on how many doses we need I mean it varies of course but sure second question has the there been any discussions with the hospital about stockpiling this at all no okay thanks appreciate it so I'll just draw your attention to this last slide just so that the the idea is that the you know the state of Michigan is responsible for the through the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission so this is sort of a two-phase ask that the state of Michigan get involved and then the the funding for the the stockpiling and distribution would be through the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission through an increase in licensing fees that would be done through

024code of federal regulation so Ann Arbor itself would not administer this blowing it's like if we get a stockpile now and something happens in 10 years or all those good I think that the the shelf life is 10 years for KI you you can buy ki online but see the the the important point here is about public education in that it is it needs to come with it's clearly instructions you you know while ki is safe there are some instances of allergic reaction so you don't want to take ki without the you know without direction through through emergency notification but clearly according to the FDA and you know what we've seen today is that the the prophylactic benefits far outweigh the risk the the way it's set up right now is that the you know

025the ki distribution while covered by the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission through licensing fees is voluntary on a state-by-state basis that you know we had Three Mile Island in 1979 we weren't prepared for that accident ki did arrive in Harrisburg days after the accident but it arrived in bulk dose and the individual bottles the caps didn't match so we weren't prepared the that was 1979 Michigan did not sign on voluntarily to KI until 2010 so there is a there's a serious lag time right now behind emergency preparedness and prepare and an education both of the officials and in population and and that's where we're striving to to update preparedness activity rather than a county level health department activities well at this but this time the county recognizes the ten-mile epz through voluntary pickup and but their

026own reports provided to the American Medical Association shows that the penetration is not there so the the the county health department is aware that cab penetration of a voluntary level is not making it to the populations within the immediate area given the actions by the Canadian government and the Canadian nuclear regulator expanding that has not has not penetrated to the the County Health Department level at this at this time so what we repeal to the you know municipal governments is that it's it's important to begin lobbying for the protection and the preparedness of your communities where that's not happening now to get a county health level and it's principally being driven by the fact that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission has not taken on the impetus to harmonize internationally with what's what we've seen here occurring

027in you know in Canada where now we see inequity and so this is essentially what we're here to do tonight is to educate this this municipal body that your population is facing inequity in terms of the protection that's being provided the same common radiological hazard that's out there it just depends on if your jurisdiction is in Canada or if you're in the United States but it's all gonna matter on which way the wind is blowing and so this is the dialogue that we think we need to stimulate at a municipal level not just here but this will need to occur in Detroit pollito so you know it needs to be a much broader dialogue now that means that state municipal and public level education has to happen this is principally you know resolution in favor

028of advocacy advocacy and as Paul said you know with what we see happening is that this would be taken up by other municipalities it could be taken up by the county and the intent is is that it would bring pressure to bear on the state of Michigan to look at this more seriously and ultimately decide on how this should be handled and we're basically just adding our voice to say hey this is something that needs to be addressed we we favor that this be be implemented and the County Health Department and other entities would certainly be encouraged to step in after acting here in the state the state makes the decision in so you know that right now 25 of 35 eligible states are taking advantage of free KI through the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission

029so there are a number of states that have taken no action at all even for Pope for first responders so did you know this is a it's a situation where public and municipal governments are there they're really not they're really not being informed and so you know right now after the fact this latest being the accident at Fukushima there's more interest in at government levels to begin to take more effective action and so it could be legislated but the state of Michigan through the Department of Public Health they could also take it advantage and so then again as John's you know raised is that this is going to take an advocacy position for on the on behalf of your your your constituents commissioner Mercier I think you have a resolution you would like to break

030oh well I just had a question about the community education materials is there I have any of those been developed yet that other communities are using well the Canadian government you know as they developed their distribution plan they have the distribution materials you includes a kit that comes with instructions it includes a package that induces you to open it and read the instructions but again the American Thyroid Association is is active in this advocacy as well so the package would carry the American Thyroid Association approvement and instructions so I would move that we we have a resolution in our packet and I would make a motion that we consider the resolution and hoping that someone might second it and we discussion discussion on the resolution and my question is just what do we need to

031do if if who has the power to make this happen and that sounds like it's the county or the State Health Department right now so I don't know what avenues the city has to influence the State Health Department that's probably administered through the governor so I'll have a change in governor pretty soon so maybe this is something we could bring up where to get our state representatives to bring up with the governor my assumption is is that if this were to pass this commission and pass City Council then this would be something that could that also be lobbied in on behalf of the city through our lobbying any other discussion to try to on board and also the public aratus that also exists in the county as well friendly include that second one second rip

032wit therefore its name again okay uh that Washtenaw County and the state of Michigan so we just kept some good any further discussion all in favor of the resolution as amended I opposed motion carries next on the agenda we have solid waste programs update crescent Slaton from the cities public services area is here to update us on a variety of activities surrounding solid waste thanks for coming thank you very much okay yes commissioner Needham mentioned crescents I know most of the commissioners but I see a few new faces with the public services area and focus these days in solid ways so I'm here to bride update on our various multiply aspects of the soundwaves program that I think is of interest to the Commission and the public so go through these items and what we've

033planned and I plan to cover really starting quite frankly as a top-level there's been some action actually by the Commission and Council state level items and some things like to just pass along quick updates to the group on those update everyone on regionalization another topic that's been ongoing Phil you know where that stands next touch on the solid waste resources management plan that I'm leading and again the Commission has been a part of that in several ways talk about services and contracts an ongoing effort and topic that kind of ties into several of those items previously so there's a connection to several of these and then through staffing and how staffing is being handled around the sawed waste program area in or the city discussion of the interest of the group certainly of the organization

034and and we have things that are adjusting and moving within the organization in other areas and so this is one of those an update everyone on that and then finish as a specific topic and just some financial items actually something I really want to bring in just to kind of clarify for the body that we've been kind of talking around but really I've realized really just need to give some specific things and just recycling in particular in the past so try to add some clarity and context and actually background on that so first in terms of the state level items the Commission approved a resolution recommending that city council lobby and we're recycling funding initiative that has really started with the governor's office in terms of one of several items the governor's looking to have

035improvements in the area of all kinds of infrastructure through the state and statewide level and so city council took that up in November and approved its resolution number r18 466 as it's listed there which the specific item and is Senate bill 943 which the crux that the main piece of that is really around funding tied to landfill and I don't want you folks talked about it so I wanted you have too much added maybe a bit for the project or for the audience but it would result if it were to pass through the process and become law would increase the tip fees for landfills and then that revenue would be used for various environmental aspects including recycling but also other things such as brownfields and such so the status of that is it's still in

036committee it has not been brought back to the to the house we're in a wonderful lame-duck session I was a state legislature I last checked Tuesday end of the day I didn't get a chance to check again today to the state's website to see where was it was still listed as being in committee but depending on who you talked to and who you hear something may be coming out of the committee to come back so we'll be monitoring that keeping folks updated if that actually does come to go through the process at the state level as I was preparing material and thinking of other state level items I actually caught on the local news something that I hadn't noticed otherwise so a another bill was recently introduced in a November from the house which would

037actually remove the long-standing 10 cent deposit we've had in the state for beverage containers as it was described in the news report that I heard the support of the reasoning for that is that particularly aluminium as the aluminum beverage containers is actually a very high-priced commodity of the recycling stream and by going through deposit that's captured at the retailers and the representative spoke to and at least a reporter describing it that by putting it into the recycling stream rather than back to your supermarket and the Meijer then the recycling process and programs and contractors and municipalities could gain from the value of that I know know if I'm so sold on that because almost sudden you're taking it from a very clean process where it's only aluminum cans in the store versus now it's in

038a single stream and we've got all kinds of things related to that so we'll be monitoring that as well and keeping folks in it and just one thing with that is if it as it's written and proposed it would sunset in 2023 is one that would take place so there'd be some some time for that but that's that's out there and then another state-level item that I think the group may be aware of but I just wanted to specifically note it I think a lot of folks are familiar with the Michigan recycling coalition statewide group they have an annual conference every year in the spring in May and this coming 2019 session is going to be here in town it's gonna be at Sheridan down a boardwalk and so we have a city staff member

039Kristina Gomes and recycle Ann Arbor Angela Porter their outreach specialists are on the planning committee for that so we're engaged to as part of that process here locally to help shape that program and schedule then dropping down below the state level to the broader region regionalization there's been a discussion and examination almost a year really asking and maybe even a little longer is there effort interest momentum that can be gained building off of the county's recent solid waste master plan update which regional approaches to dealing with diversion waste reduction and so a group that is being facilitated and led by Washington County coming out of that plan first ask the question does this make sense and the answer to that was well did we think so and it does and so a group was formed

040it was asked okay who is interested in participating to see if we can actually shape and pull together a regional authority around waste management and recycling and listed on the slide there that eight municipalities jurisdictions that have been discussing this since June actually then a formal group that's been meeting talking about what that group would look like and really working around literally a set of Articles of Incorporation really what is this thing going to be but set it up you know legal standing and where that's at it was anticipated my first agenda item for this meeting was actually regionalization that group thought we'd be at a point that we'd be coming to this body with information a presentation in the background on a regional authority and asking the Commission to act on a proposed resolution

041to support and recommend to City Council we didn't get there time for this meeting but at our last meeting I believe it was last week it's kind of flown by but we think we are there and so as a little firmer tentatively on pencil with your January meeting there's probably I'm probably gonna be back but really the leads gonna be folks from the county really explaining and presenting the regional authority that that would be proposed and would then go on to City Council presumably February perhaps March so that's that's we're at that and one aspect of that as those that have heard this since it started with the initial discussions of looking at regionalization and even some of my writers probably included other parties particularly institutions University of Michigan in Michigan Ann Arbor Public Schools

042so you may be wondering why aren't they on the list the authority that's being formed and the enabling legislation is specific to municipalities so they can't be actually on the board or remember however that doesn't preclude them from being literally customers of the authority so if an authority is formed not to give it all the way and steal the Thunder from the County folks when they come but if if this comes to be in some manner vacant contract and actually provide services to folks like the University of Michigan Eastern Michigan so they are still in play for the solid waste resource management plan we've certainly involved the Commission had a work session with you folks here in August on that and where we're at with it is well about three weeks ago the middle of

043November their November 14th we held our first Advisory Committee meeting 34 participants been here my whole career the largest Advisory Committee I've worked with I have a staff member that walked by for another meeting in the DDA where we were and she asked me with my public meeting line and I said oh no that was my niece tearing my advisory committee so surprised her but the meeting went really well commissioner Mirsky and brown participated as representatives for the group so maybe at the end if there's time let them away in and add things but certainly after the meeting if there's specifics they could answer questions too as well as I but keep on with that I've got it on the slide there but we do have a project page just the city web page a

044to gorg /sw RMP I try to get a better acronym but I couldn't so it doesn't pronounce well but and then a project page down at the bottom there are links to the materials for the project but includes multiple items for that meeting so we did have CTN video it so you can see the whole video and actually experience it meeting summary powerpoints so those materials are there for review by anyone of interest and then looking ahead the second meeting we'll be held on January 15th again these meetings we're holding them in the DDA conference room it's a nice space for a group that large good meeting area and again from 1:00 to 3:00 and the timing of the meetings there on about every other month so we're scheduled for four meetings at this point

045with meeting three on March 12th and meeting four on May 14th excuse me and also as a reminder that the team and the project will be coming back to this body at two set times so after the third meeting of the Advisory Committee we're at that point that group and the project will be forming its draft recommendations have an understanding of the resource needs and the implementation so we can bring that back to this body for you folks as a whole along with after already having your representatives on the committee but this would be the whole Commission to engage in that discussion and react to those things that they can really form the draft recommendations which would be the fourth meeting of the committee and then after that we would again be coming back to

046the Commission to further refine and hone in to the final recommendation and the plan document so with that as to what's coming up in what's next outside of just the advisory committee meetings themselves the consultant team is wrapping up their financial costs of service analysis that's going to come in to us staff is going to review that and make sure that it's all set and that will be used in that next committee meeting and certainly with discussions with the group I know a lot of folks interested and a lot of interest in the solid waste fund so that's a key piece to this also forming a benchmark analysis and that had some talking some feedback actually from the Advisory Committee some good ideas on other communities and and even City County situations similar to ours

047with Washington County needs to look at so that's being done and and we'll have those results be working on the draft questionnaire for the scientific phone survey too once we have those initial thoughts on recommendations and some costs to be able to go out to the public in that survey to get reaction to those what people's reactions those and then cost you know what again those options those programs and steps to implement and then another piece that I'm going to be moving into that actually was a part of the contract with our consultant Optima as far as procurement for contracts which are expiring at the end of this fiscal year or June 30th 2019 and so that actually leads me into the next section of services and contracts and so since this is something that

048we're working on it's a pertinent topic to update the Commission so I've explained to the body in the community different multiple times and in different ways our delivery of services my note I've got burned in my head we have currently 11 different contracts with different aspects of our salaries program of various types of services done by seven different contractors along with city staff doing things Christina Seaver a project manager from Hampton did a great job better than I ever have of showing the picture so I wrap Rob to this from her presentation with her permission and so as it's shown just a quick run to it really for the public folks at home in single-family residential areas fairly straightforward people take out their trash carts the city comes along with our crews and our trucks

049tips that cart and takes that trash to our transfer facility see if I can do this with the mouse Oh since it's my laser pointer nose work so they collect the trash it goes to our transfer station where it's put in larger trucks and then taken to the landfill that is operated by Advanced Disposal who is our kind of tracked operator on the recycling and the blue card goes out to the curb I the residence that is collected by a recycling Harbor that material goes to our MuRF we're recycling Arbor and they're processing partner Rumpke take the material it's again put in larger trucks at our MuRF and it's taken down to Rome key facility in Cincinnati and then compost a seasonal program here the city is collected by the city and is taken to

050our compost facility but that is operated by we care Denali so that's pretty clean fairly straightforward but as you can see a couple of different folks involved there so if you've got a question you know if somebody has a cart that's tipped or whatever it's actually important to know which cart which item because we have to figure out okay who's got to deal with it as you moved to multi-family residential well depending on which site you're at and perhaps even where it's located it could be that the city's picking up the trash depending on if you've got carts or if you got dumpsters we do some of those but if you have a dumpster you may also have waste management through our franchise commercial franchise contract collecting it as well recycling actually very similar if

051you're in a multifamily development if you've got carts recycling Harbor has the trucks that pick up the carts but if you have a dumpster the city is the one that's picking up the recycling out of the dumpsters so again if you've got an issue or a problem we we can't tell automatically and then compost and actually there's a maybe one or two but really is not offered to the multifamily sites and then businesses institutions so the public schools universe including university quick point caveat on that because they have their own collection system but the public schools as an institution and Bailen so again trash could be picked up by its us could be picked up by waste management and recycling actually could be again picked up by recycling annarbor or could be by the city

052and particularly by the city in carts if you're in the downtown so if you're in a multi-family and if you're in a multi-family in the downtown it's kind of confusing who who else do I want so one of the aspects of the program and even the project with abdomen and the specific tasks in terms of developing a request for proposal is to consolidate this simplify it which we fail is going to enhance and improve our service delivery and deliver those services to the community so with this slide with the boxes highlights is the contracts we have three different contracts covered in those items that I just described we have the recycling collection by recycling Arbor so that cuts across here we've got the waste franchise with waste management it cuts across here and the interim

053MuRF operations contracts are cycling Arbor and romkey that are all set to sunset on July 30th of 2019 and so the task and the approach with building a task into the contract adapt them to help us develop a scope of work to replace those now another moving in to then that next piece in addition City Council in May passed a resolution I've noted there that indicated that the city is still going to collect material we're in the business collecting the trash and though we might have looked at it through the project with apt him to you know do we open the box and look at everything fresh but we got the direction we've heard it that the staff at the city collects trash that's in this program area is going to stay in this program

054area we're still going to be doing it we're maintaining those staff levels but a key thing here is that we realize - there's a opportunity to still improve our service delivery still keeping that staff and providing services but keeping that in mind with still looking to improve that delivery of service what looking at is developing an RFP or request for proposals to solicit contractors to come and do our trash dumpster service so what waste management's doing but also those other select really their historic if you will dumpsters in the schools and some multifamily that are basically older sites that we get dumpsters the recyclable collections that's already done by recycling Arbor and then again the few select sites we do some dumpsters where dumpsters are placed instead of carts but then also a key piece

055and another aspect that been dealing with in this program area is the downtown and the matter that we've got the city trucks which are really built for more of the suburban areas and the neighborhoods trying to squeeze into the alleys and deal with carts so trying to get all of those collections under this contract and then also the processing the recyclables that we've got that contract that's expiring to operate the MuRF well by bundling the collection of the recyclables within the processing that processing contractor knows that volume that they're going to be getting that's that known quantity and then also with the trash collection as well that's another again from the economic model we talked about it with the House bill but there's basically the economics of building that into a singular contract and again

056the consolidation of the services and other aspects of the RFP that we're we're outlining and looking to do is include that for the processing of the recyclables our facility is still there available that's functioning as a transfer facility now that that's the base level and so that's we're not expecting that winding anyone to come in collect recyclables and then just take them directly off to wherever Lansing or somewhere else that you still want to collect to at least consolidate and do that more efficiently reduce the greenhouse gas effect of the trucking but also include that if someone wanted to we weren't going to require but if they wanted to make a proposal and basically have a plan to reinvigorate if you will reutilize our MuRF the facilities there basically I put out the blank sheet

057of paper give us your ideas and we would consider it so that wouldn't be a requirement of the proposal but again this is an opportunity for us to see what's out there in terms of the market and the interest that folks may may generate with that and then I touched on it quickly but the specific piece that with the downtown area the downtown is really folks have seen articles and live they didn't have my picture but they bet have my name a few times and just service delivery in the downtown has been a very key topic for the folks in the downtown the merchants businesses themselves that will consolidate that service but realizing and recognizing that's an animal in and of itself that we would work to define that separately have separate pricing and really

058look at that as its whole and really to the second side of key pieces to jump down is increasing the level of service particularly in the downtown we've heard from the merchants that there is a desire even a need and a willingness to pay for expanded service level seven days a week and that was even floated out two times a day on Saturday and Sunday seven days a week which is going to come at a cost but they've indicated at least initially yep we're willing to pay for it because we see the need we see the benefit well we've got to find out what those costs are so other aspects that would be included in the in the contracts again some things ever looked at in terms of performance outcome based dealing with a customer

059service issues the service delivery the equipment mentioned right size in it so the downtown can be serviced most efficiently and if to believe that they're not trying to put in large trucks in into the downtown and recognizing that we've got the Solid Waste Authority as I've already touched on and there's also a potential I've been made aware that merchants themselves are actually trying to look at a way to an essence take over the solid waste on a downtown which is another topic and would include ordinance change and things like that but there's interest there that's certainly going to be made aware in the RFP so flexibility is going to be a key item within that RFP proposal so our timeline that we're working on I actually should have been probably had our P out already

060to meet a true preferred timeline because if someone's going to come in they're going to need to literally gear up equipment trucks to do this but we are where we are so I'm going to be pushing to get the RFP out in December I know there's something on the agenda around this topic but just informing what my direction is and where I'm heading get that into summer which would lead to proposals coming in if I get it out real soon late January more likely early February and then selection in the March timeframe so that again that can get put into place so that those contractors can gear up and get that equipment purchased which does have quite a lean time and I'm sure there's questions but I've got my questions and answers slide at at

061that so we're getting close so staffing since actually let me even start and introduce that I know there's been discussions that's I'm not aware necessarily on the Commission as a whole but I know Missy even when she came in she had I think solid waste listed in the duties and job descriptions were certainly there's a relation there but questions where does solid waste land who really owns it one of the kind of sides of where we've gotten and went to as a lean organization things were in different spots systems planning where I was manager public works touched on areas of sustainability but with the decision that the city is going to stay in the business of collecting and have staff and equipment doing it I don't think Missy's jumping up and down of having to

062deal with trucks and breakdowns and customer complaints and they asked me in the unions and trying to fit that in with literally the public works in it so solid waste is housed in public works it wasn't necessarily a big rollout an announcement but I call it a soft lunch but right now the solid waste function of the city is under the purview of Molly machi upski who works for Craig QB so ultimately it's still Craig as it basically was but really more clearly pulled together under Public Works because it is an operational need and as I mentioned there's been other things the organization's shifting and adjust in a little bit another similar approach transportation not more too much but we had transportation we had people and systems planning ID like Cooper we had the signs

063and signal Fox and Public Works and we had the transportation engineers and transfer engineering and they were found to be some difficulties with that so that group got consolidated in that case and engineering so this is a similar model to that so I give that just by way of comparison but also to be clear just like most other operations and services in the city doesn't mean everything's in Public Works there's other needs and things supportive roles that are still needed and so I've just got those listed there with the fleet unit fleet and facilities but breakout there two roles we're gonna be in the business of collections we're still going to need trucks doing those collections so they're gonna have to support that the facilities that we already own the Murph building the transfer station

064and compost so facilities has got to support that customer service dealing with the accounts and and being the initial point contact for me to fix it and everything for all of those services and so they're still definitely involved in the Communications Office with messaging and delivery and certainly sustainability innovations because he can't get off scot-free she's still gonna be long so so at the next slide and I apologize for the small font print but it also illustrates just what is involved in the area of solid waste so I do want to point out and emphasize and it's in the title this the title staffing but these are organizational roles please do not view a box as a person there isn't one person doing this or that this thing is only one person's and even for

065myself I've got a sorry my eyes have gotten really big bad go through all of those things but it's it's a broad area it's a core service that the city provides that we're responsible for whether it's our cruise or contracted services but in addition as you folks know as people involved education and outreach in many ways both broadly in terms of programming in terms of engaging with customers directly that are having problems with their behavior something we've heard in our stakeholders sessions with the management plan enforcement particularly in the downtown they said we want enforcement we want you to use a stick so they feel that we're not doing that enough or well enough there's lots of we were in the business folks don't know we have a landfill that is now ours to carry

066and there's things that go along with that so we have to do monitoring we have to some compliance issues with the MDEQ permitting all those things so that that falls into this as well as we're come with Macy's group on metrics measures but also policy direction monitoring the state to state bills on on things as I as I started and so this is meant to represent those things that cover that area but they will be those blue boxes are meant to show that those will be housed the responsibilities of Public Works and with the other boxes representing those units that are supporting those various aspects of the program area but to staffing itself to that the management plan and the abdomen actually after the stakeholder sessions and in particular with the environmental Commission they came

067to me and they had their follow-up stakeholder sessions actually were with Craig QP my boss and Howard everybody's boss and they asked me can we ask them if we can include staffing because they heard it from you folks particularly but also through other stakeholders just this part of organization but even what is the appropriate staffing level and they got the okay that yes that's something to to look at in this mix so they're gonna be evaluating that and coming back with some recommendations but we still got the day-to-day we still got to pick it up at the curb we've still got to put it in the right place we still got to answer the concerns and the service issues that we have out in the field so that will be coming in that that's in

068the mix but to fill you in on some other things hearing the feedback on compliance I have been told a bit secondhand but very reliable source I'd say and strong enough to put in the PowerPoint that included in the upcoming budget discussions will be a position for solid waste compliance right now we do have compliance it's handled by community standards that's a group it's an arm of the police department and so they they're definitely deputized authorized to issue tickets citations but they're dealing with parking there they're dealing with the whole gamut and so it's complaint based if we put in a call yet they're gonna get to it but they're gonna get to it in basically order of priority the idea with this is it's a person specifically focused on solid waste now we'll have

069to see and part of that evaluation is going to be okay is there a need for full-time 100% solid waste funded solid waste or they be do more is that still in community standards is that public works who really doesn't issue tickets and doesn't have badges but so that's got to get figured out but the need for compliance and focus on it has been pointed out and so I anticipate and have been told that will be part of the budget deliberations coming up then another piece the manager role the oversight again kind of going back and I see is he nodding there was maybe an initial thought that Missy might be innovations and sustainability and solid waste manager or something like that but again we're at and that operational Public Works model but there is

070an e that that area that breadth of area needs someone's focus overall to lead that well down at Public Works I call it Molly shop Miley's the manager she is responsible for six work units in that dead area so the solid waste and I've been talking about streets so the street plowing potholes three utility groups water sanitary and storm and forestry is that six used to be parks but again with some of the reorganization parks is now back under the parks department parks maintenance so she has a very broad reach she's one manager she had two assistant managers that were able to kind of divide and oversees a cruise to the crew supervisors she lost one of those staff to retirement this summer so she now has her and one assistant covering at all six

071items so there's one vacancy an opening but again here we have an opportunity to really shape how what are the needs in this area what are the needs and Public Works and shape and get that position crafted to focus on this critical and important area and support though the needs that she has down it public works so another aspect was my bullet there as far as there's still some things that still have to be cleared up is there going to be this Authority we're gonna be coming back again soon to that they can have certainly an effect could be an authority may be something that could be a great time-saver and research savor if that becomes a body that can take some things on that maybe we can contract with certainly and the again I

072don't want to get too much ahead of the county and steal their thunder but education and outreach at a broader regional level maybe that's something we can have them do and so we can focus on some of the other core services so as that becomes clearer that's gonna help shape the role here for the group but also this this person and and the need there that that I like to see my name in print but everybody in and everything to that I've been kind of plugging that gap since July 1 actually I've been focused on solid ways so I am the manager of the Saudi waste resource management plan and that lead these are the things that I've listed here the procurement they talked about and the contracted services working on the regionalization and I

073guess first I'm probably publicly I'm gonna be doing that for about the next year and then after 33 years beginning of 2020 em it's gonna be somebody else's so I'm gonna be actually retiring and heading out so I am a card-carrying member of AARP but yeah feels weird saying it publicly for the first time it's getting out so I figured I might as well do it but I'm kind of filling that gap if you will as the that's why I introduced myself to its public services I don't call myself to solid waste manager but as informal way that's what I'm trying to fill along with Miley and then her existing assistant as best we can but really what the goal there at the bottom that is one of my tasks will be working at what

074is this role what's that need so that we can get that filled with that position as I transition out and then I believe my last item area to talk about so financial items and I forgot to mention at the beginning for the audience at home new folks have seen it as a companion item to the PowerPoint I'm sorry I should have mentioned this earlier I've got a much more detailed written memo that fairly well paralleled with the presentation with that and so there's some more financial items and details in there some questions that have been asked earlier that we try to answer but I realized an item that I've kind of talked about talked around and but I really wanted to spend just a little time to really kind of clarify for folks around recycling

075and from a budgetary or financial piece and the cost of recycling because there's one piece of it an attachment to my memo was an October memo that Craig QPD our service air administrator addressed to Commissioner mirskiy and and was shared with the Commission really around finances but a question we heard has been up around the cost of recycling and especially especially as you look back and the cost recycling so I just really wanted to just set the context if you will for recycling or recycling here in Ann Arbor and the issue of cost and for those that were part just as a quick reminder to those that participated in a session we called recycling 101 back at the beginning of the year with kelly rooney of advanced disposal one of the contractors that I mentioned

076that works for us she had a great job I felt of a session really explaining recycling but from an operator standpoint and I went back to her slides today I didn't see it explicitly in there but I know she has said it and I've heard it multiple times in conferences I've been at and different things and in reading one of the big things is back to the earlier approach for our contract there really this wasn't unique to Ann Arbor the viewer the thought early on was well recycling is great it's a commodity it's got value we're gonna be able to sell this stuff this is going to be at best um this could be a moneymaker this could be Platt net positive and at worst it'll cover costs and so great as well as save

077money by keeping it out of the landfill and as well as all the environmental reasons well as we talked and I'm sure your earlier discussions around the state bill and our low tipping fee as well as the fact that recycling has it cost to recycle it I guess is the point that that view and I've heard and Kelly has told me and different conversations the industry speaking for the industry didn't did itself actually a disfavor by kind of touting the economic benefit to hard that this can pay for itself because there are costs that come with it and so if we were to look back and I've just framed a couple of key points of our earlier recycling contract approach and this was early on and it's been said and and heard it and I

078realized that we were leaders we want to be leaders and a bit back but sometimes when you're leaders you're out in front and you learn some things that you know maybe if you were a little lagger you might learn from other things like not counting on the economics of recycling and so our first contract that we had with resource recovery systems was the final contract name they went through different names and and mergers but a big thing again was counting on the commodity value as a key piece of the contract and as part of that to one to fully utilize our facility but again really generate that revenue as well as economic or the benefits of added recycling our contract structure really incentivized third party materials so material outside of the community of Ann Arbor

079so it encouraged RS to go out and work with other communities private haulers other entities to bring material into our facility and the contract was written that we'd get a little slice of that commodity value you know they're using our facility we'll get a cut of that and another key aspect to the structure and the approach and it's been a topic around armored facility it's our facility it's our equipment but yet they were using the equipment they were using the equipment to process our material but again through that structure of third-party well you're using it you've got a you know it's going to where it needs to be replaced so and that's a much more complicated I'm really painting a high level but it it added complexity to it and the funding for that replacement

080was kind of done separately it wasn't if you will baked into the cost of processing and so kind of set that aside those are some key points of the approach that we worked under with rhe community which really was fine when markets were good when the equipment was in good shape and things were able to be maintained but as things went on and volumes increased and markets went bad then things kind of changed around so what what that hindsight tells us is and I think everybody now gets it but I just need to say it is we can't be in recycling with any thought of the economic benefit I mean yes that's an output that's certainly part we need to be cognizant of we got to look for that it's an impact to how it's

081done but we got to be doing it because it needs to be done it's the right way to do it you you folks are the ones to tell us all that didn't emphasize that but that's really it and to recognize it comes with it costs it's going to come with a cost also that matter of third party volume tonnage it and this really goes back and Kelly Rooney can do it much better than me but there's that sweet spot when you've got a facility that processes recyclables it's going to be of a certain size with equipment and staffing to a certain level that you've got to have enough volume to keep that equipment running to staff those people fully that you're not you know four hour shifts eight hours just but yet you also can't

082overwhelm the facility you've got to be able to shut the equipment down you've got to be able to have shutdowns for repair for meanness for just regular cleaning I mean some of the facilities and quite frankly leave it's the wrong key facility in Cincinnati I've been down there a few times now it's recycling Arbor they actually have a separate shift daily that after they're done they go in and they clean the whole facility that is part of their nature that's part of their operation and that's part of their pricing factor if you will and so that's kind of cute and where I'm going that care maintenance rehabilitation and replacement that can't be an afterthought it's got to be baked into what you're paying but also what you're doing and as I put there again high

083in say 2020 as we modified our facility put things in we actually made it even less able to be maintained and it just got so tight in there you really could we we should learn some stuff in and so when you put too much in in a facility tough to maintain it gets to where we're at so so to try to express that and really kind of get at that cost piece if you will that was really the intention for this slide and again this is in my memo and so a little more detail with that but it was really meant to illustrate and we actually have kind of a good situation if you will to look at those different approaches at what you see in the the chart here FY 16 was last year

084where RS under that former structure if you will of contract was operating so if you look at it from financially you can say the blue column there the blue bar is the processing cost of what we were charged for them to actually process but again that didn't include funding for the replacement the maintenance of the equipment that was off in another way calculated differently and so that's not baked in or factored into that that was just tipping it on the floor and paying somebody to do it in essence to again oversimplify another key piece is the orange bar there and it looks like you know a bar above well that's a credit so the fact that that's above the zero line that's not good that's why under the next two sets waste management who operated

085the mer for us on an interim emergency basis in FY 17 and the last fist full fiscal year with recycling Herbert those are below zero that means we were getting credits we were getting reductions for the commodity Sara and even though in my report in the hearing of the markets and paper being bad we were still getting positives for that but yet in that earlier contract because of its structure its complexity and its tie to the third party we actually were paying them more because of just the complexity of the contract so it actually bumped up the cost back then and I hope I'm not glaze and everybody's eyes over getting too much but this is I think a the piece that's kind of been missing from from some of the discussion and so move

086over to FY 17 as I mentioned to waste management was the first operator emergency basis when we sever ties with our s kept the process going but they came in and then recycling Ann Arbor similarly in that model that Kelly Rooney talks about where the contract gets set up you have a price from the processor the contractor where they have their staff but also their repair and replacement for costs built in maintenance of the equipment all those things into a single item and it's it's all built into it and it's a cost per ton in this case and you pay that the more you do the more wear on the machine the more people hours it's going to take for that share of it that's baked into it much more straightforward but it's a my

087opinion a much more true representation of that's what the full cost is for recycling and so again you see pretty comparative between waste management recycle and harbor with that new model and so and I'm pretty sure this is my last slide before rap is to tie and bring it back to the Murph and again things you folks all know you folks have been telling me I definitely know it that since our Murph literally went down in terms of a processing facility it's left a hole in this region and there's a lack that's wait our contract as it is today our material ends up in Cincinnati you're not happy about it I'm not happy about it it's getting recycled but it's it needs to get fixed and there's a need in the area the reality is

088to restart it it's going to take a significant capital investment don't know what that investment is I'm not in the business to truly do that and it smart enough to know that other people need to do it but that's also again tie back to the approach we're looking to take as at this point with the RFP is if somebody's out there that wants to put pen to paper and look at things or barley and taking into account we do have this Authority that's perhaps gonna come together that may have that sweet spot of volume it could be done we'll see where that happens but with that going forward key things to keep in mind as we mentioned we've got a right size it better recognize we've got to do it because it has to be

089done so right thing to do environmentally sustainability but it does come at a cost and so with that probably not too many questions but if there are any I'm at the end well well thanks crossing hmm I know it's a very complicated subject with a lot of them you're juggling a lot of balls here but I think I mean I came into this situation late so I don't know if my knowledge is complete enough so I'm not going so I want you to take anything I have to say just really for the grain of salt and I appreciate it any pushback you might have so I mean first thing is that you know with the for example with this chart on the realized unit costs for Ann Arbor recyclables I believe that most of that

090extra cost from say $32 a ton to $131 a time then the next year as accounts for the transportation of recycling to Cincinnati Wow right so so and this is a situation that's been going on for two and a half years so I'm wondering how the city staff has responded to that because you know it's a predictable nosebleed and it's it is eroding it sort of it is eroding the solid waste fund significantly so I don't know what plans were discussed about try to reduce that cost and what the but that I would just like well actually the opportunity in my opinion is actually here with a the consolidated RFP that we're looking to do to get somebody looking at the collections those contracted services as a whole and the opportunity potentially of a regional

091group of municipalities again a key to that facility is having the volume to operate it appropriately enough but also not overwhelming right so I mean see the thing that startled me is is as at this Advisory Committee meeting that was held on November 14th one of the four major questions or was talked about was consolidating everything into one contract and that startled me and I think it startled ninety percent of the people that I polled at that meeting so as to consider as a major kind of consider raishin her topic for discussion that seemed a little unbalanced no because you know because it all comes out in the numbers you know and that it made me think again about what kind of financial model you might be using in constructing these RFPs in order so

092that you can properly predict or trade off what the costs and benefits might be of different scenarios so I don't know what kind of software are you using right now or what kind of process reusing but um because you know that's that's a key thing and then the other and then the other comment I will make is just that the reason why I drafted this resolution about suspending an RFP is that because all these balls are in play and they will be in play for at least a year now for example a regionalization Authority won't be probably ready to do any business until July first realistically I mean you have a better idea than I do of the pace of of change in government institutions but I'm thinking that July 1st is probably going to

093be the time when people can actually really talk about about things and draft a workable plan so at this point to be drafting a law an RFP for long term contracts it seems a little risky it seems risky and I don't know if you've considered just doing contract extensions until you reach that point and and on the other hand it makes me feel like I wonder why there weren't there wasn't a more active are apparently a more active effort to try to reduce the costs of transporting all these recyclables to Cincinnati rather than trying to find some perhaps cheaper alternative I mean I don't really know what you've done to shave that off but if you look at the numbers it doesn't seem to have really changed you know over the last two and a

094half years yeah that's a result of a contractual relationship in that the contract sets the pricing and that's but these things can be renegotiated usually we don't really when we enter in a contract for a term and at a price that's not a and and quite frankly maybe into a legal question too in terms of that ability for my experience we went out looked for that it was uh I can get you up to speed on a background in the history of that process that got us got a ser because there was a slightly smaller cheaper option but I was this was a selection that was made and that's where I can sympathize without yeah we all get handed things that we don't we didn't start but we have to finish so in terms of

095like them and I appreciate the need for simplification you know I just want to make sure that we don't throw out the baby with the bathwater that simplification is good but really you know cost reducing costs and maximizing whatever recycling revenue you might expect is the goal and actually that's that's the recommendation from after man the thought behind even consolidating as well as going out with RFP is to see what is the the market for the costs because in looking back it's been a long time the contracts that are expiring are very long standing contracts so we can speculate and app them can give their estimates of what they think it'll be but this is also an opportunity to see what the market bears when what those prices would be for those services I'm you

096know whenever we go out with it that's the opportunity to get that pricing together from the marketplace as to what those costs actually are okay the cost for collection or recycling yes processing yes yes we put it again the idea that the packaging that's it's all there is all together what's the pricing for all that outside of what the city's gonna do because again the city is still gonna be involved but those other outside services okay um I'm you know I have a whole list of questions but I don't want to monopolize the discussion okay well I'll keep going so you know looking at looking at these charts and everything it's it's pretty hard to come to a judgment about an independent judgement and so I think it would be a lot better for me

097if I could get like a pret spreadsheet if I could see a spreadsheet like a meaningful spreadsheet that has all the breakdowns according to how the contracts are written in everything okay so I would encourage you to share spreadsheets with because I think most of us here know how to work with spreadsheets and a lot of expertise and over in the room here on the Commission so we could help we could help both staff and council go through the different scenarios and things like that because staff time is limited in council time even more so I almost called you Emily Missy because I think what I would want to do then we could start an arrangement I'd like to kind of walk folks through it because again there's some complexity to it and but yeah

098that's the tool I've been using to to literally generate these things so and I think explanation it was along with it so I can order this Missy do get something set up my sense is that accounting solid for solid waste by activity meaning recycling these are all the costs these are all the revenues for recycling trash these are all the costs these are all the revenues for trash same thing for compost and then maybe there's a separate category for education outreach things like that that would make things a lot more transparent for all of us I mean some of the material that you've provided for not tonight is really helpful but in a sense it's still for me isn't completely understandable you can't see tonnage 'as you don't know what the breakdown is some some

099things are gonna be overhead costs that those that have to be allocated but I think for each one of us we would understand this a lot better and admittedly I'll say here I've misunderstood some of the past accounting information that you've provided to us and I've passed on information to others that's been wrong I mean I'll admit that but I think all of us would be in a much better position to understand and I understand on the other hand you know the more transparency you have here then the more questions you're gonna get because you apply to supply more information try to confusing I mean I'll admit to that too you just dig and dig and dig but the way it is right now I mean you provided you know this breakdown I mean this

100is a the version that you have right now it's it's more detailed but there's all kinds of costs that are not aligned with an activity and I think that will really help piggybacking on what Steve said if I see a spreadsheet I want to see a spreadsheet by activity and not where a line item is you know part one line item is trash and recycling of maybe another line item is three or four activities you can't align then a cost or a revenue item with the the overarching activity actually that's very helpful for me John because where I go with that that is what I am fully expecting from the financial analysis and model from abdomen and they were I was expecting I was pushing for them to have it to me for tonight to

101be able to share and and talking with phil kowalski the principal who's that's when his main tasks he told me he understood and he apologized but he said it's got to be right that he's still resolving and but what it's coming back with is just that perfect so through this service area so if we try to sit down now what it literally is I'm working off the city's financial system which is the accounting bookkeeping Ledger's my dad was an accountant but I did not say about how I didn't express that night so I'm Nydia gonna try and but I try my best but that's that's what we end up with this point from a financial system trying to put it into Excel and yeah it's an understanding and also just generally speaking municipal accounting I

102picked it up by osmosis but it's taken me 30 years I'm still not good at it so to try to you know again really well yeah we try it certainly looking to be transparent but as you get into it one thing is an answer at least other things that well there is the the reason or the answer but then it begets more so I guess hearing that and that was actually very helpful John that I I guess I would offer or suggest for asked that once we get the financial analysis and the model in from apt um and have our staff you know already push on the right people digging into it making sure yes this is that this matches and it's telling that story that information that can be understandable as we're talking about

103which is again my expectation I have to see what we get I'm fully expecting that though to be that so I think that's where we'll be at and really that's that's a target for the January advisory committee meeting so that's my push and I push to fill that we need to have it so we can get it ready and be comforted with it so that then that group can have it so if never from the Commission that's gonna be there you guys when you have to fight Allison to see which one okay so I mean it's just I'm having trouble with this because you're talking about issuing targeting to issue RFPs in December but we're gonna have this meeting in January so it's not clear to me how this is all gonna mesh together now

104you know what I mean it seems like you're and actually again even not to and not to bore the Commission too much or too much detail but another piece of this and you even mention a governmental process for me to issue an RFP have vendors and especially of this what we're talking about doing they're gonna need time to review it ask questions put their proposal together there's going to be a process to review proposals to interview to select make recommendation we're talking almost and the schedule I laid out is a crash to schedule well and so well sure I mean we haven't really talked about what the scope of these RFPs are but I mean to me this is just a stronger argument for just doing contract extensions for perhaps another year six months to

105a year just until the whole process is finalized you can have you can construct a proper RFP you know identifying the key points or the relatively minor points and that you know and then have a have a more judicious process yeah so I guess my point or my either response or really more information because I think actually I missed something back to the slide that just occurred to me but one you folks are an advising group and you've got something on the agenda you're going to pick up and and probably talk and I can certainly weigh in and add to that more specifically later but you know as a practical as a staff person I've got three contracts that I'm responsible and part of the team responsible for it that are expiring and I know

106to replace those it takes time in a process to do it and I mean engaged to do that and I have a task with a contractor a consultant to help me do that so we're just doing doing our job I guess if if you will so to speak you folks certainly advise counsel and counsel could tell us know put off we're gonna do something else and that's totally appropriate but you know I'm just kind of doing my my marching orders but it's because I think I did breeze through it maybe even totally missed it it was in the slide and actually Jen pointed out a question I have in the slidin in the memo about I mentioned if we since we are in the business going to be in the business of collecting solid waste

107so we've got staff we've got trucks and back to my slide of the service delivery so those areas where we've got city with the dumpsters though we've been told and staff ministries depending the spirit the resolution we're not cutting staff we're not privatizing that function those people are not gonna lose their jobs or we're gonna have those people but this is it did mention I think an opportunity for still flexibility and adapting our service delivery but I think I forgot to mention what that was that we would remove those staff that handle the front load the dumpsters whether it's recycling or trash so by packaging this and putting that all into a contract those staff that are doing the dumpsters that then allows us to repurpose those staff two year owned residential compost which I

108know has been desired by everybody forever and so this again is just an opportunity that we have and that's clicked as we've looked at this so that's another just piece of the puzzle that but in order to go there we've got to be able to pull them out of the rolls that they're doing now which would have to be for up through the new contract so again that could come later year-round composting is contingent on the completion of the RFP process and new contract because it would happen when it's been asked in the the issue we've had and again it's back to funding staffing levels our compost program is a seasonal and so it's staffed by seasonal employees temporaries to go to year-round you need regular employees the full-time staff well here we have that

109opportunity to literally shift them they're still solid waste they're still collections we're reassigning we've got the trucks it could be done with that but we extend the contracts that's fine that's but everything stays status quo but that also includes the seasonal compost Cresson I've got a question for you you know going back to the question that we've been asking you for a long time which is how much is it gonna cost make the MuRF operational it seems to me we're now you know two and a half years into this process and our answer is whatever somebody tells us it's gonna cost in the proposal that they submit I think we are all kind of anxious and filled with dread about that conversation for sure but at the same time if we're talking about a regional

110authority that might have a role in the governance and the oversight of this it seems amazingly premature for us to enter into an agreement I just I can't reconcile that I mean maybe help me think through it I think the points that Stephens bringing up but are really valid simply because we have a lot of moving parts here and unless we have an out clause or a buyout or something or an expanded clause right we we've got a contract and oh there's this other entity right nearby I mean we're relying on you all that are negotiating the the larger original agreement to understand what the dynamics are at play but it's you know certainly conceivable that we would enter into a contract with somebody that is not desirable by some of our major partners and

111and I would not want that to you know end those discussions I mean so you know outside of really wanting to understand what the cost of operating that facility again are gonna be you know I'm I'm concerned about taking a premature step and perhaps you know sucking the oxygen out of that regional partnership discussion I still think that the interim period that we're talking about before this regionalization gets up to speed that parts of it are salvageable right now I don't know what's possible to do with the mark and as Steve said we are bleeding money out of the fund by driving to Cincinnati and is there a way to stop that and for the short term while we wait for the regionalization to get Wow if someone were able to come in and provide

112a closer Merv for where they would take the recyclables have you had people come in two or three times they look at them or we had someone come in that said yeah well we had somebody come in and trying to think the multiple times we had one who came in actually was we asked advanced our musubi and I well see BNI and actually earlier and a couple folks and they said it really is beyond the life and would need to be replaced and in the six figures I could go back and see what the numbers work right then it was pointed out and raised well the specific people that came in they were equipment people certainly they're gonna want to tell you it's bad because they want to sell you new equipment and there could

113be a point to that so we asked Advanced Disposal again Kelly Rooney who's again in the business broadly their company I asked her and she brought in their national recycling manager I believe I walked walked in through the facility and what they reported back to me was first as a specific the facility was shut down and safety concerns and because of the condition of the equipment it's been physically disconnected so literally to even fire it up again it or flip the switch if you will would be in the horrendous but in the tens of thousands of dollars we'd have to get electrical contractors to rewire reconnect everything and what they said was you got to do that before we can even tell you anything and we that's that's been a consistent all the way through

114you can't they can eyeball things but really until you run it to really see what the true repairs or needs are or how well it pop rates but also a couple of key points they added one it should be expected that it's gonna wear soon and and need significant replacement again they can't put a number to it but significant replacement in the short term I believe off memory was what they said so well what does that mean like what is soon and what is short term I took it as within a few years I did have to go back it was like that's a projection Joanne a generalization again until they haven't reconnected and the decision above me we're not gonna put money into you know hire somebody for thirty thousand dollars to turn it

115on to find out it's broken but another key piece and back to my earlier discussion in terms of capacity they they said and this is there's really been helpful to me and they put some numbers to it that the size of the equipment the size of the facility and they actually hit it pretty well probably because they know some of our numbers but our volumes are tonnage is for the Ann Arbor community and what comes to that facility now it's basically about half what would be needed to operate it so to take a scenario no not to say anyone is advocating for this but if it were to make it simple let's pay you whatever it is because we won or a cycle here if we were to do it just for the Ann Arbor

116community back to that sweet spot we're only half of what we really need to operate it economically as a facility this is it's only four hours and nobody's gonna work for four hours and all those sorts of things so as a part of what happens with this facility and this is what I've taken to the the regional discussions in the groups multiple times that really what brought the city there and the message I'm taking is we have an opportunity and I know it's not going fast enough but this facility could be an opportunity for that regional approach because we're about half of that areas of volumes from what the coming plan hands from the folks that are in there so if I were to scenario that could be is but I know it's long and

117the wheels of government moving slow and things coming together but a scenario could be that that facility could be the Western what are we call Western wash huh no that's the other one more money you'll learn about it but this new authority that facility perhaps could do it but again that's gonna take how does where does that investment come by whom by how to to invest that in into that facility but it's clear to me from the multiple times and different ways that's been looked at that it's not a simple matter of a couple hundred thousand dollars to kind of tweak the equipment right and and I remember that too and my recollection is that we've had a conversation with all of these people about participating in this in a short-term basis and there was

118interest in that and my misremembering were frustrated and in terms of actually in terms of of operating a sort of mini mirth oh yeah actually that one hasn't come to fruition him I haven't why what's happened with that the there was a meeting with the administrator and basically things are verbal so nothing I'm sorry things are verbal things have been talked about in a very high level of potential but nothing's kind of come together I guess I'm and that's quite frankly in the city administrator's Park so I don't want to speak too were you eating yeah I was allowing the total pull at the end of the table I mean III don't want to get into too many details here but I've had rather lengthy discussions with recycling annarbor and there was a meeting on

119the 14th of November everything was verbal I have an outline of of what was discussed my understanding is is that they're waiting for feedback from the city yeah I think what councilman Smith said is is correct this this is really difficult and it gets also back to the whole RFP thing because there's so many moving parts and there's so many uncertainties and you know just a few few aspects of the are a verbal and that I've emphasized this verbal proposal my understanding is is that the start date would not be until 2020 middle of the year so it's not something that this is something that people think oh is urgent and we're gonna get this done in three months and we're gonna have a mini Murph in three months so even their proposal is a

120couple of years out and they're talking about capital costs in the four to five million dollar range and you don't recover those costs you know in a couple of months so that means they're looking for a longer term contract but all these things are exceedingly complex right now and I think to again loop back to the whole discussion about the solid waste resource management plan update about the RFP I understand the desire to move ahead with the contracts and the RFP because they are expiring and that there are some downsides with extending them there are some concerns about material are the the the condition of the trucks and if there's breakdowns then there's overtime so there are cons to extending the contract there's not just pros to saying you know let's extend it for another

121six months or a year there's people maybe get you know routes missed and they won't get collections so there's gonna be more phone calls there's a whole slew of different issues but it just seems to me as a layperson sitting here who's tried to really dig in that it will convey or present the perception or create the perception that in a sense we preempted this whole process with the the update with the input from this body with the Advisory Commission it I just see a lot of pitfalls with going ahead as it is and I think one of the things that you could help us with is understand what are the pros and cons and an especially council in council I assume this potentially is gonna have to go to Council and you're gonna I

122need to understand what are the pros and cons for extending versus going ahead with the timetable that you outline what are the risks and what are the potential benefits and that then how do you structure the RFP so that in light of all of these moving parts you're gonna get an RFP that is going to come back in several months where you can pick and choose different things from from the quotations and put together a contract that makes the most sense in the midst of all of this going on that's a tall order okay yeah yeah and all of that makes sense to me too and I would just it seems to me that there have been a lot of ideas that have thrown out but I'm not sure that the ideas and the they've

123ever reached a conclusion so you know in addition to not knowing what the plan is going forward you know even these little things that we've tried to discover along the way I'm unclear on what the conclusions of those are and that would be helpful to have as information before making another decision and I'm also just concerned about this this interim measure that this fund is just bleeding out money and I don't I don't know that that's being addressed or I'm not hearing that being an addressed in a way that provides me with reassurance goes over to the chair I can try out to have ahead some pros and cons if that's the ask now before the item comes up or if that's a at a later point but I've got some things or other things

124that you yeah does it take an act of the council resolution or something that's been the thirty thousand dollars to rewire that facility to see men what's needed I mean actually now that you actually now that you've raised it that way Chris commissioning room if its twenty five thousand dollars or more it would for nine and I do it right but but I guess there's a more practical matter I've been told by people above me we're not gonna put money into rewiring it just to turn it on but you got a distinguished so it's a cost and what's under investment yeah so my second question is okay fine it takes 24 nine to get it rewired it takes another 25 24 and I and have people make an assessment and okay it takes then an

125action of council has been a hundred and fifty thousand to get it operating again for the city man Arbor stuff and you do all of that is it less than trucking so Cincinnati I guess what I add on to that is who's going to staff it and run it and operate it yeah I think we've got to get somebody to short-term basis and all that stuff yeah yeah I know it seems like it seems like all that's very complicated but I can I pin a badge of courage on you well and again that's agree and that's even though the description I used I've used the multiple balls juggling in the air spinning the plates that's that's why this is my focus is along with others these various things but because we don't have enough folks

126but trying to spin as many as we can and to keep things going I might take money but perhaps if if now is appropriate to try to at least lay out on top I have kind of pros and cons or considerations I suppose on gon continuing forward versus holding back in terms of therapy sure that's fine I there are the questions to come from Calgary so in terms of pros since that's you know the direction we're going as staff assignment if you will one it gets us actual costs you know well you get the contractors that here's what it would be for these services that we haven't procured in bid as a whole firm for some time the item of the residential around residential compost the simplification ful of services and I look to the

127downtown just the point of you know not hearing just to react back and circle back to Commissioner Browns point about the adviser community as far as 90% other group well anybody the part of the group does from the downtown they were the ones that were telling us we want just one provider in the downtown and so they were aware of it and that's actually what they're looking to do so along with that would be that added level of service in the downtown seven days a week you know actually procure that and get that set up those are some quick pros some cons agreed regionalization the authority that can be a key piece especially to the MuRF revitalization piece that there may be a piece of the puzzle and yes it it's going to come back

128as an item of potential entity to you folks soon but I will totally agree that's gonna take time to get up and running there's gonna be things they're gonna be looking at first it's gonna be some broad items education outreach getting all the communities on the same platform of materials so it's gonna take some time for them to get going but so that could be a con to going now or a pro to d'Alene could just shift I mean is there anything that's in front of ya actually city or this whole edges that would make yeah the RFP I guess I'm gonna take that question Johanna shifted just a little slowly because this was a thought I've had to in terms of and I don't know if this is necessary a pro or con but

129more kind of a thing that in terms of picking up the trash dumpsters picking up the recycling those two particularly but also even if we say the the transfer and taking the recyclables for processing if you will are pretty core services back to the pro of of delaying and waiting for the management plan strategic plan those cores those services are so core and fundamental I don't and actually even in talking with apt on because I've shared with them the resolution we're not anticipating much in terms of changes in terms of if you've got a dumpster with trash it's gonna get tipped in and things so other programs and things may certainly be there it's not to say that there won't be some but at its core this we're talking a service I don't know that

130there'll be a lot of adjustment but there could be something so not necessarily citing it as a pro-rata just my contacts I don't so I guess those are my my quick reactions in response to that yes so go ahead I don't want to create additional work for you I know that you have a lot to do but I I don't feel like we're getting answers to these these questions and I wondered if if we submit them in writing and say these are the things that we have heard before and we're wanting to know exactly where this ended up would that be something that would ball asks I actually find that most useful because then it's something they aren't specific of course as we've talked to some times do you answer a question and it begets

131another question but that's part of the process I'm not talking numbers and spreadsheets maybe I'll be alright but no I'm totally fine with that and that actually because that even gives me time you know make sure I've gotten well-versed and I'm feeling comfortable in this area yeah I've always thought over Andrew my job here in the city and I've got it now but that affords me the opportunity to go to the true experts or to get the right information so that that's a helpful approach and so if we by what date would you need us to give you those answers to have to give you the questions to have answers before our next meeting I guess the biggest thing just which we ran with the holidays and things so that's the thing and I guess

132thinking back it even a little larger context because your next meeting is gonna be toward the end of January but before that will be the Advisory Committee so thinking again holistically in the things the balls I'm juggling I guess I would ask with in the next couple of weeks so I'm planning to take the week between Christmas and New Year's take a little break but til then and just that holiday kind of crunch I'd like to try to get them before that time so that I can work on those to get them together both for that committee meeting as well as the Commissioner that well I volunteer myself to be the aggregator of questions if people would like to send them to me I'd be happy to assemble them and send them on to you

133and yep you hope that be great from where to Missy just so then I'm not missing something or losing track or something I would be great thank you very much I appreciate that absolutely I had a comment and I think I've made this point before and I apologize for repeating and also I know that this is not your decision to make probably but everything that we're hearing about the complexity of these issues compounded by the lack of staffing in the area it seems to me just a really compelling argument to hire a solid waste manager now rather than waiting I do appreciate your presenting the rationale for waiting I think I understand it now better better than I have in the past but it still seems to me that a qualified solid waste manager should

134be able to manage our solid waste program you know sort of whatever it ends up looking like and I realize there there are unknowns but you know people's jobs change all the time and certain responsibilities are shifted and it just seems like getting someone on board now who can get involved in this process maybe even hope shape the process coordinate the process and also I have the benefit of interacting with you while you're still here because this is not meant does any reflection on the work that you're doing but I think I think we need more people and I think that the person who's going to be responsible for carrying this plan forward should be here now agree good and if it's not possible to do it on a full-time basis to hire a contractor

135who is qualified and I know at one point we were told that was going to happen and I'm still not sure why it didn't happen but it it just seems like you are overtaxed and you could use some help and and it would be great to have someone who know at least help us limp through this period until we move into the next can I throw one other idea out in terms of freeing up resources to do the kinds of things that we're talking about here the the abdomen tract includes 95,000 dollars for community engagement and the significant chunk of that is a survey of residence we know from discussions about another survey that that's twenty to thirty thousand dollars my sense is that I support fully what Commissioner Needham said but why not cancel

136the survey of residents who don't understand 1/100 of what we are talking about and we don't understand 1/100 of someone who's really into this full-time why should take that money and give that tell them to shift their services to do the kinds of things that we really should be doing with real expertise and not going to to residents and saying should we do this or that or the other how can they possibly make that judgement when we are dealing with this some of us I mean I'll speak for myself I've invested a ton of time in this and I don't even see through it and if someone were coming to me for the survey and said should we do X or Y or A or B I would have an extremely hard time coming to

137an inclusion and there'd be a very high likelihood that it would be a wrong conclusion so I would say take shift those monies and provide support the kinds of things that we're talking about here to accelerate things and to help you come to the right conclusions and I'll throw out one other thing I of the floor I think one of the things that you could also maybe think about tell us tonight or later is is there a big disadvantage in terms of the city's reputation or whatever with proceeding with the timetable that you said so that we do get things going but then have a point in March or whatever and say too much has changed and we really can't go on the forward on the basis of the proposals that we have we have

138to go again it wasn't anything that we did on purpose but at least that way we were proceeding on a timetable to do the kinds of things that you've proposed that keep us on that that that favorable timetable of being able to to renew or have new contracts in place but we could abort and we could restart the process if there were significant changes and if there weren't then council in March when they're presented with this could say everything is as we planned it at the time we can answer all the questions and we can put these in place I mean that's another alternative to think about other questions is there risk I'm responding to an RFP and I put a bunch of time into it and then they can it I'm like forgetting them

139and so is that I mean I'm responding much smaller effort she's a girl but I'm just wondering if that's a risk as well if they'll just decide to abort that you kind of can can risk turning away otherwise very qualified people that just say they just have to get their act together and I'm not willing to spend my time on them you know I would say that is a potential risk that's real well Crescent I mean the one thing that you mentioned about a positive thing about issuing an RFP was getting costing data isn't this something that app Tim has some access to as an independent consultant could they can tell you what the range is yeah and inspect it and certainly they can pull information and ranges but also I mean depending on if

140folks are comfortable with ranges but I also know again the interest in things of looking at number and things to get to hard numbers you got to have something that somebody's come in and said here's the size of the community here's the type of service I would provide here's that fleet how I'd route to really get to solid numbers so I guess I would turn the bankers to a comfort level if you're okay with someone's okay with ranges we will absolutely get that from app them but if it's well I want something a little tighter we're not gonna get there until we ask for it any other questions I just like to make a comment I know this isn't probably where you anticipated your career but I certainly appreciate your willingness to step into an

141area that is outside of perhaps your wheelhouse and take on a really difficult task and just try and fix a lot of your bad decision I think we're better for having you help us through this thank you yeah thank you very much really appreciate that actually I will say I'm starting to feel comfortable in this space which makes me kind of freaked out almost considering myself an expert I have one one comment not really related to it your presentation but I think if we haven't talked at all about the stay in it's worth mentioning I think it's been mentioned maybe to some degree before but we haven't talked about diversion rate at all and diversion rate the national average according to the EPA is just under 35% and Ann Arbor has been stuck in the

14227 to 29 30 percent range since 2013 now the the national average obviously includes lots of states where they're recycling aluminum cans and bottles so that's maybe a little bit inflated but just the mere fact that our diversion rate needle hasn't shifted at all in five years is really something that we have to look at collectively from residents to the Commission to the city and say why are we stuck where we are I mean some of it we know is like associated with some major decisions like organics and you're on composting and things like that but we have not made any progress and that needs to also have a sense of urgency not just the dollars in the sense but what are we getting out of this program and what are we doing to make

143it better them we haven't made it better in five years you would start me too I could add on to that as I'm becoming more of an expert and so I keep this real short but the key I've learned it's outreach in education but really almost the model we're doing things and everyone is the way we have been and it's still important you know the school education the sorts of things but the whole area is so different the focus really on quality and again back to lessons learned in hindsight single-stream it makes so much sense participation well the downside the unintended consequence we've got a lot more stuff but we've got more contamination we got stuff going in oh they had a lawn chair on their little logo so I can throw in my lawn

144chair but it's got aluminum legs and the nylon strapping and the plastic arms that's not recyclable that's ending up in the landfill when it gets to the MuRF but it's not clear and just so to that point I think a huge cage on my own self box for a second is that outreach that education of all of us in green in my head with the authority committee one of the members from another municipality you know said it really well he said I learned to recycle 30 years ago that's still the way I do it because that's what I learned and I know it's probably not right but that's ingrained in me and we all of us yeah we need to re-educate and stay on top of even that just like everything else but so I'll

145step off my soapbox thank you very much for your time I had a follow-up question I'm really interested in better communications - you know on all of that and it's the communications department or ms1 trash or any of those people are they anything on the drawing board yet we're continuing with it but again part of this project well the two parts remastered epitone they have again a specific task to look at outreach per second how are other communities doing it comparing us what are best practices today that should be done and then also the authority discussions that has really through the meetings i've been in and have that group that recognition is there that the early focus I expect well I have to see when the group forms if it forms and whose own and

146what that direction but that group is really talking about information education getting everybody on the same playing field the big point that people work in Ann Arbor but they live in Chelsea or Dexter and everybody recycle is different so if you go to work you don't know can you recycle this or not I can't at home but I don't know if I can here get us all common inconsistent and that's gonna take that but that's all part of that education too so that's that's really where I see that going okay thank you very much thank you thank you Commissioner Brown I think you had a related resolution you'd like to bring forward yeah I did and you've all heard my concerns about um about why I know about why I've submitted this as a resolution

147I mean the last thing I want to do is to tie the city's hands and doing what they need to do city staff but I think after this discussion I think it would be useful to know what council numbers think that they need to know in order to approve appropriations so I think I'm happy with this as its stance as a resolution but um I think it it's going to certainly require some more understanding I think on everybody's part about what these RFPs really mean you know because my initial concern was just that why do you want to focus everything on one big vendor because there are definitely you know disadvantages and advantages and I don't feel like I feel like it's stating that as an explicit goal was an alarm was an alarming statement

148to me based on my experience so were we are you moving yeah I'm moving to approve of those solutions second that's discussion yeah you know I I think I appreciate this very much coming forward and councilmember banister can probably talk to this as well I think is we think as council what information do we need is that generally when we are involved in the Appropriations you know we are trying to make heads and tails of the the bidding and awarding process without the full context of what did the RFP say you know who responded why are the responses so different you know we've just had some action last week trying to gain some clarity into that in how that information is presented to us so I think at the very least you know there would

149be concern as to whatever contract came before us with all sorts of methodological questions about how did we get to this point which would in all likelihood set things back a little because I don't know that we would necessarily agree that we were where we needed to be I think ultimately what what I think would be helpful as if pressing can present that pros and cons to of doing this process you know because we don't generally have a discussion about this stuff before it goes out to bid and I think that there are reasons to do it just as their reasons not to do it and I think we need to have a broader policy discussion of at council to make a decision on which way to go forward so I would want to have

150that before we invested the time of drafting the RFP which potentially you know I can see that taking much more time than a standard RFP for this would simply because of the complexity of the situation so I I think before I would want that to go forward and obviously it's not our job as council to manage a RFP process but these are the questions that we're going to ask when the contract is put before us and a recommendation to enter into a contract with somebody this is we're gonna need to know these things so we might as well just ask them upfront and try and make the process a little bit better a little bit more certain for people that are proposing and you know if council makes the decision that you know the negatives

151outweigh the positives then we'll say let's not go forward with it yeah but I'd like to have that discussion particularly on this before we took a step one way or the other yes I would agree with that that it's council we just passed the resolution that we didn't want just one choice at presented to us we wanted to see the all the options that were with the recommended choice so that's a new change and I think a couple of the other things we were talking about like you're diverting 30,000 cancelling a survey was compelling for the reasons stated that the residents it's too complex for the residents to do a survey so there's some 30,000 of the 94 thousand for the community engagement again I think that's a really good spot and we seem to

152all agree that if we could get the residents Riis learning recycling better that's a key cornerstone of the of the program and another I think the things coming into this meeting was that the staff and they asked me staff want to be sure that we're not privatizing or hiring subcontractors so that's a I want that you know that should be clear for there were some concerns about that and thank the spreadsheets the deep the more detailed spreadsheets of the line items would be good for some members briefly on the RFP process I met with kresson yesterday afternoon and discuss basically everything we talked about tonight but one of the things that I also expressed and I've mentioned this before about the RFP process and I explained some concerns that I had in more detail with

153kresson is we've had now two solid waste RFPs where I had significant concerns about the weighting of the criteria and the evaluation of that leading to what I think could have been potentially incorrect selection selections so I think that's something that also needs to be corrected in this RFP and I don't need to get any more details but Cresson knows what those are and I think there's a few other people up here that knows who know what some of those concerns were basically you know cost was in the end in a couple of those that was vastly under under weighted and no matter what someone came in with the cost if someone came in with a great proposal they were gonna get the contract over someone that came in with a decent proposal but at

154a much lower cost and those kinds of those kinds of basic RFP process issues need to be corrected before we go out with other rfp's so this resolution goes with the council and the council has to figure out what to do with you my question to you is there are contracts expiring that need to be replaced and it takes months to do that if we vote for this resolution we're suggesting that that somehow gets overturned and we wait than anyone else here to say what is that okay to do can we actually ask the council to do that would they be inclined to do that is that the correct course to take I I think it's not that they would be replaced they would be extended I think that has consequences too of course and

155those should be on the table prior to I mean that's all part of the pro and con discussion so does this trigger that discussion council members if we pass this resolution this what you need honestly I'm not sure that we need this I think that councilmember banister and I simply need to you know bring this up as a council communication convey this discussion to our to our colleagues and and direct the administrator to you know prepare the pros and cons information for us I might also add that this you know what we are saying here is that you know we are trying to avoid the issuance of an RFP for one single contract for all these things that's what we are saying that we are trying to do with this particular recommendation I think there

156are many many pros to do that and if we did not do that there would be a lot of consequences to offering an hour to put an RFP that said we want one contractor to be able to do all these things there are all sorts of questions that would be on the table if we didn't do this as well as if we did do this so I think it's certainly you know while I'm as reluctant to tie staffs hands with a resolution at the same time I think there are just too many questions on both sides of this issue to do nothing and this sends a good message to council to be able to let them know all the things that they're going to have to consider and moving forward in this department that makes

157sense inch but should we make that particular thing maybe even more clear or and possibly amended also to say about retrieving the 30 thousand for the survey many many minutes long that it's pretty clear yeah I don't know that we need to include the thirty thousand I mean that could be a recommendation that discussed you know between the solid waste leadership and a couple of council people with the administrator as an option I mean that contracts already let I think the main thing here is is do we want to send a signal that that's not binding that that the city consider postponing proceeding with the RFP and one option is as I mentioned earlier that they proceed with it with the with the hopefully the remote possibility that they have to abort and restart hopefully

158the the RFP is written in a really intelligent way that it allows for shifts and changes that might happen and that we can realize all the pros and mitigate or eliminate all the cons I don't know but there are there are risks as was pointed out with with doing that I mean people are gonna invest time in answering the RFP and we difficult to signal in advance that they may be wasting all of their effort in doing so so is that an update to say to trigger that conversation of the pros cons urging that that conversation about the pros and cons happen before deciding to move forward with the RFP so change the resolved I wonder if we could accomplish that simply by changing the direct language to consider request the City Council of Ann

159Arbor considered not undertaking a new collection and so on until the parading planning process is complete then in the next one request the City Council of Ann Arbor consider postponing bundling and so on that's good well including management plan has been included and is actionable until they have been presented with pros and cons or until changes have been reviewed and approved by City Council can you say that again in the final clause until the solid waste resource management plan has been completed and is actionable , until they have presented with pros and cons comma or until changes have been reviewed and approved by council Commissioner Brown would you be amenable to those amendments yes council member Smith our next item of new business is can I just add one other thing and that is if

160staff feels that it's helpful in sharing the RFP you with a few of us maybe Stephen with me and to go through it even just as someone or people that can ask questions hopefully somewhat intelligent questions to hopefully improve the quality of the RP that we would be willing to do that I just offer offer that I mean you may be able to do that internally but if you want someone to do that I mean that it could be any number of us up here but our next item of new business is brought forward by councilmember Smith resolution to declare an Ann Arbor climate emergency no be as brief as possible I appreciate your flexibility and allowing this to be a late add to the agenda to give you a little bit of background both

161dr. Stoltz and I have met with the local chapter of the climate mobilization which is a community and network of organizers researchers volunteers and policy makers across the country and the world trying to work on the ground with a response to climate change what they call initiating a massive economy and society wide climate mobilization to restore safe climate it's a 501 C 3 and a 501 C 4 both their sister they really helped put this together this is a fairly standard declaration of climate emergency that they have been working with all of their local chapters have been working with those municipalities to try and pass similar language at the municipal level we'll cut to the chase there was a report that came out was described in the New York Times today that we talk a

162lot about climate change but last year carbon emissions increased 1.6 percent and this year they're expected to rise 2.7 percent so we're making no progress we're making a little bit of headwind here but not not as much as we need to and before anybody says it's all China and India the United States is responsible for 1/3 of all human caused the carbon emissions today so you know keeping that in mind I have no problem bringing this forward and trying to be more aggressive in in our carbon carbon reduction targets which we have we have set some ambitious goals in our climate action plan but with all of the information that has come out in the last month I think the need is there to a declare this an emergency and have Council do the same

163but also to step up in the way that the university has to say by 2025 the city's municipal operations will be carbon neutral and set a goal of 2040 for the munis the entire municipality achieving that carbon neutrality I think we need to set bold targets to promote bold action I don't think we have time to look to waste I go home every night and I see two little girls that have absolutely you know they've done none of this and they're going to inherit all of the burdens so to me it's imperative that we declare this for what it is which is a global emergencies but also understand that Ann Arbor has a huge role to play in this so with that I present this motion or this resolution I move it second second any

164discussion all in favor [Music] our final item of new business is potential policy action I the Genda ideas to be taken at the state level and dr. Stokes could you introduce this a little bit sure all of our boards and commissions have been asked to put together their ideas for what we would like to bring to Council and then also have internally for staff to consider applicants and so what we've got before you is ideas I'm at the bottom of the sheet there's what was presented from this Commission last year and then at the top were just some new ideas that we sort of generated and we welcome any ideas but we figured it was a lot easier to give you something to react to then ask you on the spot to come up with

165the things you think that we should focus on so I just take that as kind of general ideas and you're not necessarily necessarily looking for a vote tonight exact correct we do have until the end of this month to get something forward so we do not necessarily have to vote on this I would just say if you have other ideas please let us know so we can and put that in the package I have one brief question we have the staff generated ideas and what was submitted last year what was submitted last year carries over now by default not by default no you I mean you can choose to have them all on you could choose to have them off I think we would be looking for discussion we're nothing at this like carp launch

166are we assuming moves forward so at some point we do need to have some dialogue and we can do that remotely about what you like and just like really this is a straw man if you will or strongly so Cashner's should contact you yeah I'll send you a deadline so I can then clean it up I'll put it in a Google document so everyone can kind of well I have one idea how about adding water bottles to plastic to the deposit vault yeah Oh any beverage container yeah and if it's water which has some traction okay next just an announcement of our proposed meeting dates for 2019 that you see in front of you this follows our typical arrangement of four Thursdays with the exception of November in December which are combined into one meeting

167the first Thursday in December so if anyone has issues with those you could let miss Drennen or myself know but that's that's what we're planning at this time do we have any committee reports okay the only thing I wanted to mention is I am still trying to work on some sort of a proposed work plan for the Commission for next year or January agenda which I'll get to momentarily is already already quite full so but we've spoken to dr. Stoltz about possibly using summer all of the time in our February meeting for a bit of a facilitated brainstorm session on things that we might do the rest of the year if anyone has any thoughts on that please feel free to let me know dr. Stoltz do you ever report alas I do I'll make

168it quick because I know we're at the witching hour just a reminder that if you have questions for staff anyone just if direct those to Emily or myself that way we can help make sure that you actually get responses so similarly whatever we generate based on that discussion will help make sure that gets taken care of a few things we were very busy last week submitting proposals so we applied for an equity fellow over the summer and we'll know shortly we'll receive that we put in two proposals to work with you a master's students one on creating our local carbon offset program here and the other on creating an internal price on carbon for city operations to generate revenue that we can then use to help other city departments reduce their footprint we are working

169actively and hopefully tomorrow or Monday a grant will go in the first part of a three hundred thousand dollar grant it's a split through partners four places and we'll also be asking the Ann Arbor area community foundation for our Aging in Place efficiently program that you learned about in Northland we also put in two proposals to an Innovation Fund one on enhancing resilience based finding financial literacy so we are actually doing that with CFO I'm Tom Crawford it's a partnership really to figure out how we fund these things more sustainably creatively and then the other one is on more resources for the resiliency hubs so we have funding from council thank you council members to start the process of planning and designing a resiliency hub and then will obviously need money to implement them so

170this is because of council's decision to fund that initial seed funding we then could unlock potentially significantly more capital so that's really exciting for those who do not know a budget adjustment was approved by council for $250,000 for the office 200,000 of that goes for our net zero energy affordable housing program we are really excited we've been meeting with the team we're designing all of the work so stay tuned groundbreaking in the spring and we'll do something flashy and fun out there 15,000 for AV chargers for our fleet 10,000 for resiliency ups and then 25,000 to support our strategy of getting 200% cleaner renewable internally so we're pretty excited about where that's moving we are now turning our attention obviously to fundraising and then also preparing for the 2019 I'm sorry fiscal year 2015 21

171budget so we're in the trenches of figuring all that out for those of you who are free tomorrow night and don't have an amazing date we have a community climate conversation that's happening downtown library with 14 partner organizations in our community we're bringing in two of the authors of the National Climate Assessment which are local and was just released and we're going to have them talk a bit about the Midwest chapter as well as public health and what that means climate change means for Public Health and then we're gonna do a little bit of kind of what our office can offer in terms of engagement with the community and then we're breaking out into a discussion with the community about what they think are the most important things we should be doing and with our

172partners we put together two handouts for them that they can take away and understand what they can do kind of in their personal lives as well as who they can go to to try to understand this landscape of climate actors in Ann Arbor which we're pretty rich and then last two things oh well that's three things sadly Matt nod retired on Friday if you don't know please do reach out to him he would love to hear from you and then former members of the public and you as well we are still accepting applications for the sustaining in our were together grant program two came in that are fabulous and I will tell you more about them as soon as we get award letters out the door we're very excited and then the last thing get

173excited because in January we're going paperless with you so if you we're gonna try to have everything on your computer screens but if you need something a little more interactive please do bring a device to the meeting we should probably walk the walk so that's great I really appreciate it so we do have a full agenda already for January Bryan Stieglitz from the city water utility will be here to give us a presentation and answer questions about PFS contamination in Huron River and filtration efforts at the water plant Jen Lawson will be here to talk about stormwater City Administrator Lazarus will give us a presentation on budget issues relating to sustainability and the environment and we may hear back on the solid waste regional authority if that develops in time now does anyone have anything

174else they would like to tackle it that's more than yes one one comment about the agenda the bylaws that we just passed um has a point in there and that says representatives or there should be report out from representatives of other Commission's Park Advisory Energy oh I skipped over that and I didn't did we I don't know if we it's not on here well it's not too many it's so we need to modify the agenda so that it that it appears as a separate point I had prepared some stuff but given the time and the facts the things that I had prepared are not all that urgent I just skip it other than just to maybe say I sent out something about the listening tour that I mentioned in the last meeting and were in

175the meeting minutes and if anybody's interested in participating in that the sustainability listening to her get with me or with the sustainability office did our other commission liaisons have anything well well next time I'd like to take a little bit more to tell you guys a lot of things too one thing we're working on a heavily in Ward one that actually could affect the whole city later on which is of our sidewalk program and we got a four hundred thousand dollar grant on the hook from Lansing for a million dollar sidewalk problem our solution the solution we're looking for is safety for children to get to school but unfortunately the way the program everyone roundly agrees that lessons learned we didn't involve the immediate the neighborhood until the eleventh hour in the process and so

176now we've come to find out that this is not our best ways to achieve safety and it is has a severe impact on the trees and wildlife and shrubbery that would be affected should these sidewalks go down and in and aligned up as planned so it's been a very messy process we are meeting again tomorrow morning for another three hours trying to figure out how we can mix together safe routes to school and try to preserve our trees and and and so this could be coming to a neighborhood near you too and so when we're putting pedestrian mobility connectivity paths for bikes and pedestrians and all into established neighborhoods it raises a lot of interesting issues for our broader environment so that's one thing I've been working really hard on and next at our next

177meeting I could let you know how it all turns out comes member Smith did you have anything further all right our next meeting will be 7:00 p.m. January 24th right back here anyone for public comment before we start thank you David shoenberger here again from resident of the city if I may briefly switch gears back to an earlier item thank you just to get on the record with a brief public comment to address commissioners feedback on the emergency planning resolution as I understand the Commission inserted language to the resolution for the city to advocate that the Washtenaw County government take responsibility for providing potassium iodide protection coverage to n Arbor residents I appreciated hearing that feedback and I do agree with the sentiment but one of the Commission here to clearly understand though one process

178goal of this citizen project is actually to enlist the county as an advocate along with the city on this issue in order to change policy at the state and federal levels to achieve a much wider scope of provision of coverage without at the same time adding additional fiscal strain to smaller levels of government including the county and the city thank you for listening thank you he's right we inserted Washington County in the wrong place I think any further public comment all right we stand adjourned thank you for your patience everyone you