00120:18 City Planning Commission meeting we will begin with a roll call Commissioner Ackerman here mr. Briggs yeah sure and give Randall here can I sure Mills Commissioner Milstein here Commissioner oh so they can assure Trudeau commissioner Weatherby here Commissioner woods we have a quorum moving on to introductions do we have any introductions this evening no great moving on to approval agenda do have a Commissioner that will move the agenda moved by Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner Trudeau any discussion on the agenda all those in favor please say aye opposed all right moving on to minutes of previous meetings before us this evening we have the june 19th august 8th and September 5th meet meeting minutes we will take them up all three together unless someone objects do you have any discussion all moved by Commissioner
002Ackerman seconded by Commissioner Weatherby all those in favor please say aye opposed they're approved moving on reports from city administration City Council Planning Manager Planning Commission officers and committees written communications and petitions will first begin with Commissioner Ackerman for our report from City Council Thank You mr. chair Wow City Council was here until 1:00 a.m. last night very little by way of planning and building policy one item of note is that starting in well in 1994 the city established a treaty per se with the surrounding townships setting our ultimate growth boundary and in deciding that you know in years forward that we would begin to annex properties within that that growth boundary today there are a number of what we call Township Islands which are pieces of land parcels of land that are technically Township
003but reside entirely are entirely surrounded by city land starting in 2011 the council at the time directed city staff to begin a process of strategically annexing those those township islands right now we are in the midst of the second round of large annexations it's a series of about 85 different petitions or parcels to be annexed into the city city council moved to postpone as there are pretty dramatic capital costs associated with tapping into the city's infrastructure system and we want to better understand what the impacts to those future residents will be we're talking about five six-figure sums of money so trying to do this as delicately as possible thank you planning manager great and I see a question from Commissioner Weatherby I did have a comment from zba great all right that's our next item
004planning commission officers and committees mr. Weatherbee I just wanted to comment on 1420 South Maple Road which we approved in June or July I think there were two variances requested one was the maximum front setback for a building is 40 feet from the their frontage but they have that on i-94 so they requested a largers front a larger setback of 118 feet and that was reproved and the other one was a 31-foot driveway which is wider than what is the norm but the there had been a request for them to line it up with Pauline even though it's a private road they wanted it to match up with the width of Pauline so that was also approved right thank you any other Planning Commission officer or committee reports mr. mills the o.r C met last
005Tuesday night it was an extremely well attended Oh RC meeting we had in a number of things on our agenda but we ended up only talking about food trucks global food trucks I would expect that that's going to be coming back to us we there was a draft that we looked at we made a number of recommendations and then I think it's going to come to a working session and I can't remember if it's October or I don't think we established whether it was gonna be at the October working session which would be next week or the one in November but that's moving forward great thank you can we shut you down thank you so Transportation Commission did endorse an update to the city's traffic calming process which went to Council last night and I
006will hand it off to councilmember Ackerman to update us on what happened last night thanks I was disappointed that City Council it's hard to say voted down and majority voted for it but it didn't achieve six votes because of sparse attendance last night so it was a 5-4 decision that ended up the motion failed this update to the traffic calming program in my mind having worked on it through the task force Commission and into City Council I'm being proud of the product in my mind would have lowered the bar of entry for neighborhoods to petition the local government to get improved safety infrastructure in their neighborhoods it's something that people have been asking for for a long time because the majority of petitions submitted by neighbors are actually rejected by the city because they don't
007reach our criteria or minimum threshold for what we consider as a danger so this was a means to make it easier for neighbors to petition to have better infrastructure and safer neighborhoods because of some I think because of some complications and lack of citizen engagement with other similar types of programs but not this program in particular some members of council felt as though this update to this particular program would lack enough community engagement in the process to warrant moving forward given that it is a citizen initiated process I think you know the threshold of community engagement is already pretty high the neighbors are engaging each other there are multiple steps of community engagement involved in the process it's my intention to quickly have transportation commission discuss it again perhaps update and tweak it and bring
008it back to Council but for those interested in pedestrian and cyclist safety particularly in the neighborhoods may be something worth contacting City Council about thank you any other Planning Commission officers or committee I'd like to report all right moving on to communications in our packet and we do have some written communication so please take a look at that moving on to audience participation is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission regarding an item that is not on the agenda this evening we will be discussing one three two Hill Street shortly but is there anyone who would like to address an item that is not currently on our agenda seeing no one we will move on to public hearing scheduled for our next business meeting our next business meeting will be
009on Tuesday October 16th at 7 o'clock right here we will be hearing the following petitions 1750 Plymouth Road special exemption use with site plan for City Planning Commission approval 715 heather way annexation and zoning for city council approval signature club parking lot improvements landscape modification for City Planning Commission approval and 1505 White Street alley vacation so that will be at our next meeting moving on to regular business so this evening we're gonna do it a little bit differently we will hear from the petitioner and the petitioners team they'll have ten minutes to present their petition before the Planning Commission after that we will hear from our planning staff mr. Chang who will go through his report and then we will go to public comment a public hearing and then we'll go into discussion and ultimately
010a vote so buckle up so moving on to number nine regular business 132 Hill Street multi fam a residential site plan for city council approval I'm Cathy Kenneth with make on engineering and I'm here tonight with David Lewis from Louis Grinspoon architects and we're representing mr. Bob Miller with Miller building who is the petitioner developer and owner of the property at 1:32 Hill Street so we'll try to not mess this up the first slide is just an overview aerial showing the 132 Hill site property as you can see it's it's surrounded by our 4c it is our 4c most of the area is used for rental property it is on Hill Street just east of Main Street and west of the railroad tracks this is the city zoning map as you can see is surrounded
011by our 4c and there is a small area on the south east side of the property that touches a piece of property that's owned commercial this is a close-up of the site from an aerial view you can see the existing residence on either side there are also homes similar homes to it I'd also like to point out the curb cuts locations because this is something that we wanted to talk to you about tonight there is an existing curb cut on the East property line and there are two curb cuts on the west property line one that serves the adjacent house and one that serves as personal but they're right next to each other this is a picture of the existing house from the front and this is a picture of the existing house also from
012the front but from the east side and this is a picture of the rear of the house you can see the house is in extremely poor condition it has been maintained for a long time obviously the roof is caving in and there are problems with the foundation and the structural integrity of the existing building this is 126 hill which is directly west of the property and this is 140 Hill which is directly east of the property and this is the property that we are proposing to share a driveway with along what would be their west property line in our East property line this is the 143 hill project which is exactly across the street it was also developed by Miller building company and it was just recently finished this summer and this is the other
013property that is across the street at 1:33 Hill Street this property was developed some time ago I'm not quite sure how long ago it was but you can notice that it has the three-story home a large driveway along the property line and we're moving into the site plan so what we're proposing is a five-unit building multi-family residential it is zoned r4c the lot is about 66 feet wide and 173 or four feet in length so it's a long narrow piece of property this is a site plan the dimensional site plan so you can see the shared driveway that we were talking about we're proposing to get rid of the curb cut that's on the west property line and share a driveway with 140 Hill parcel that would lead around to the back where the parking
014would be we're proposing to maintain the conflicting land use buffers along the entire length of the West property line and the southerly property line and a portion of the East property line except for where the shared driveway would be located and that does require us to obtain a variance to not have to install that conflicting land use buffer along that property line this is a more detailed landscaping plan you're interested in the plant materials and then this is the stormwater management plan the site is not required to do full detention that is required to store the first flush there's about 7,500 square feet of impervious area and that area includes that entire length of that shared driveway so we will be providing first flush storage and that's being achieved by a series of rain gardens
015located along the property there's one in the southeast corner there's a long rain garden the spans along the west property line and then there's another rain garden in the front yard that captures all of that driveway water that would be training into it and this is just a rendering of the site plan and then I will let David talk about building a little bit for you good evening my name is David Lewis I'm with Lewis green spoon architects we are the designers of the building these are the four elevations of the building the upper right corner is the front facade facing Hill Street it's a three-story building with a finished basement it complies with the height requirements of Zoning and all the setbacks required and at the very top of this image is a kind
016of a view of the whole street showing the other properties on the on the block and as you can see the scale of this building is pretty comparable to what's there currently and as far as the style of the repose building we were shooting for something contemporary yet not anything too you know unusual and there'll be a mix of materials for the exterior finish and lots of big windows for the tenants lots of oh and after that we have it thank you for writing and then here is a rendering of the building the scene viewing the front North elevation and the side east elevation in the shared driveway you can see that there I think that's about it for the architecture I sort of forgot to mention the parking we are providing eight parking spaces
017in the rear we're also providing bike parking we were required to only provide one class a parking space we provided seven Class A and two Class C spaces which was shown on the site plan if you want me to go back to those I can other than that for the building so there are five units as Cathy mentioned for the units are six bedrooms and the center unit is four bedrooms and these units are all kind of organized vertically so no one has any neighbors above them are below them every unit goes from the basement up to the roof and we lose we lost a monitor so that's pretty much to summarize that's our presentation and we're here to answer any questions that you would have tonight thank you thank you we'll now move on
018to the staff report this is kind of covered it thoroughly I would just add a couple of things this project may be phased it all depends on upgrade of the water main in the street its proposed to be upgraded in 2019 but again I can't predict the future so if there is a delay they may face the project which they show it on the site plan they also had additional setbacks due to the length of the building which they did meet and as far as the variance from the conflicting land use buffer there is support from the city's urban forester as this moves forward to the Zoning Board of Appeals and I'm available for any questions you may have thank you at this time we'll open up the public hearing anyone who wishes to address
019the Planning Commission you may do so at this time if you'd like to speak please approach the podium state your name and address for the record and you'll have three minutes to address the Commission hi my name is Cindy co-op I am the property manager of a 1 to 6 Hill right next to the ones 3 to Hill my question and I want some clarifications about sharing the driveway because I just heard from Miss Kathy saying that the driveway us at proposing is to close the current is to pull it on the west side which is 140 here is that correct but in the report that I print out it said that you want to close the west side and then you want to move it to the east side so I want to have
020some clarification about exactly you know put instead of just say si website give me the number of the house because you know that's one thing because I own 126 Hill property management but then the fact is because of this establishment create a lot of house a lot of people and a lot of traffic I either way and I want to make sure it's safe for the tenant in that neighborhood because a lot of people moving in and with the bicycle and all that and myself heel street is a very busy street you know we just have to make sure it's a safety measure there and please help me to understand you know which driveway you know we're talking about here I'm getting confused so thank you yep I'm sure one of the commissioners will ask
021that question during our discussion is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission in regards to this petition seeing no one I'll close the public hearing and read the motion if there is another person I'd like to address the come on come on up you still have one minute 13 seconds to go my other concern is to make sure the new establishment you know it's built with the sufficient infrastructure around it because this sewage systems and the water supply and also the flooding because you know I want to make sure that you know with such a huge amount of people and the users there is no that's efficient structure around it okay the electricity's and the gas and all that you know I know it's beyond the city control but
022you know we have to make sure everything is orchestrated popularly so there is nobody's in this neighborhood is being jeopardized by this new establishment thank you thank you there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission all right I'd seen no one I will go ahead and read the motion the city e the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby recommends that the mayor and city council approved the 1:32 Hill Street site plan subject to approval from the Zoning Board of Appeals before issuance of any permits to have a commission that will move Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner gear and all we are in discussion Commissioner Mills thank you I will just clarify on the curb cuts if the petitioner wants to come up my Anderson look I'm gonna repeat you what
023I think is going on make sure there are two curb cuts right now on the west side which is by the one to six the curb cut that's associated with this problem the one to six would remain but the other half would be closed and it would be moved to widen the curb cut with 140 is that right that's correct I can get to the great picture for you so this picture shows the property line that we share with 120 126 so this is the curb cut that's on the 132 site and then you can see there's a small little island here and the curb cut for 126 is here this will stay in place and this driveway is the driveway that will be eliminated thank you and in terms of the safety of this
024I don't know how much that was part of the consideration but what I see right now is you won't have to back out of a driveway anymore right you could turn around is that right right yeah so we'll be safer we're eliminating a curb cut and improving one that's already there and there if you are out there the the curb cut don't look like they really aligned with the parcels and they certainly aren't the four and a half feet off of the property line the way they're supposed to be so this shouldn't prove it and we'll have one access point for those two houses which eliminates a curb cut and it is kind of near the intersection of Adams and Hills so I think this is a much safer layout than what's out there right
025now how will this intersect with the 140 property like right now it looks like people are parking in I mean it's driveway right now is that right all right so right now they park in the driveway and he does have a garage back here that that garage will be demolished and the driveway will come around and then I mean he will be able to drive down his driveway and most likely the parking will move to the back of the building and it will no longer be in the driveway and towards the front of the building thank you this is a question than the first staff does that will that require that petitioner to come before or to talk to staff a little bit of history on the 140 site they did come in we're currently
026reviewing a site plan for this project this proposal they've withdrawn that so I would have to he did indicate that they would be removing the garage but if they're expanding it to a parking lot which is more than five spaces that he would have to come in for a site plan for Planning Commission so I would have to wait and see what he's proposing to do it at his site since he's withdrawn his site the site plan does having the shared driveway I mean technically I guess you could just stand your side of it it requires some kind of easement yes it does this will be contingent upon an easement being recorded perfect thank you I do like the idea of not having to back out onto Hill I think that and so while we're
027not the body that would grant a variance I think that from my perspective that's a good safety measure in this particular case and having one fewer curb cut I appreciate talking your question about what impact this is going to on infrastructure nearby and so we certainly heard that the water main is an issue and that that's going to limit how quickly this can be built do we know anything about the sewer system or what impact this has there I I don't have any additional information on the sanitary or the storm other than at least for the storm it is required to have first flush so it's less than 10,000 square feet which this one meets as far as far as the sanitary there were maybe Asian calculations that were accepted by our staff engineer okay
028so this the sewer system seems to be okay and in terms of the storm it's because it's redeveloping my my um this is the question I guess back for the engineer but I'm imagining that right now it's not taking care of its own first flush there is absolutely no stormwater management on the site right now at all so brace so everything runs off directly right into hill street right now so hopefully this will not just well it will improve the situation that's currently there rather than um rather than add contribute additional to the problem it will and we've also taken into account there is off-site water that runs on to this parcel from the south and we've accounted for that in our stormwater calculations as well excellent that's great to hear I don't have any
029more questions anyone else Commissioner Brandon so with the shared Drive are you counting the new drivers one thing I'm a little concerned about is that the catchment area for the rain garden that is dedicated to the drive is a tiny percentage of the area that is flowing to it whereas the other ring Gardens especially the one on the west side is much bigger but it has a much smaller catchment area draining towards it so obviously stormwater reviewed it and natural features reviewed it what I would have you look at twice is the vegetation that you have called out for that front rain garden which I think will get drowned immediately in the amount of water that's going to it so right now you have a bunch of rebecky in there and they're just going to
030rot so I would suggest that you if you were to pass tonight in between now and City Council that you would look at something that would it's going to get inundated all the time with six inches you know with the smaller rain event whereas the other ones will only fill up a few inches you know because the catchment areas so it's out of whack in terms of what's treating what I get it that you only have so much room on this site and so you you know it's difficult to bridge underneath the sidewalk and I totally get all that but I would just ask you to review the species that you have there because I think it's it's gonna die okay so that's what I would just have you look at between now and then
031okay we can look at that I did I know the rain garden along the west property line the long rain garden looks out of whack compared to the area it takes but that's actually the area that's capturing that off-site flow that's coming into the property and it's also gonna have roof drains going into it yep and then that rain garden that's in the south east corner actually takes the majority of the parking lot so really the one in the driveway or the one in the front is just capturing that driveway water but we can certainly look at another speech it's a pretty big area for the size that you were able to shoehorn in there so I would just because it's one of those things people probably won't check two years from now but then
032the rest of us have to live with the eyesore of it who is just focusing on things we'll take the water condition that it will likely have in in typical France so we can do that commissioner Ackerman just a question on process this little should it pass tonight head to the CPA what else is outstanding in terms of review from engineering for their phasing before it heads the City Council no it is it is ready for what if it gets approval from City Council there is no all standing okay and the easement is already in place I don't believe it's recorded is it record it okay so if it's recorded that's great so so it's the C being in City Council that's correct turns the process okay thank you mr. Briggs I'm describe the discrepancy
033between the growth slot area the required 880 500 feet versus the 11,000 square feet that are proposed the if you're referring to the comparison chart thank the 8500 is the minimum lot size in the art for C district and so what's existing is 11,000 499 square feet so it meets the minimum lot size and then they calculated out how many units they could get in there I think it's based on like about 2,400 square feet so that would allow them five units massing on site okay mr. Weatherbee so um let's see so I did adding on with the landscaping and rain garden and garden maintenance um that neighborhood is filling up with a lot of rain gardens that are sort of you know depressions with some junk and some not very nice plantings so I
034would ask that this be you know maintained and that the plants that go in our are ones that have a shot it so I appreciate that comment because it is kind of becoming a thing when where's not these lots are small relatively small so they don't meet the stormwater so I think our sort of community answer is to make a rain garden which sounds really nice but a lot of them are not maintained as a garden they're sort of just a depression where water goes and so that is becoming somewhat of a problem around the area so I just asked it you know I know you have multiple buildings there and multiple residences so hopefully that'll be good but I'm looking down the road that that's not always an ideal situation for the kind of
035the look of the area I did have some questions about so I see the dumpsters there's dumpsters in phase one then there's dumpsters in phase two but it's there they don't I didn't see that was um on the image that you had where it looked like there probably should be dumpsters by the driveway is that can you so the dumpsters there's a set of dumpsters here okay and then there's two more here and there's two more towards the front of the building we were trying to break them up not just to accommodate the phasing but also to accommodate the residents and hoping that they would use them and trying to make them convenient for them to use them and also to get the carts out for curbside pickup I mean I do appreciate that the
036residents most impacted by this garbage will be these residents and that they're not kind of tucked in behind the houses on the other side I think that driveway is a good idea those two drives right next to each other are problematic I I do have some concern of the easement it is very common in that neighborhood to have shared driveways more of a artifact of not having driveways when most of those houses were built and so they just kind of picked a space in between I know that because we own property that has had that and it's great right now when these two owners have it it can become problematic down the road so I just the easement that's written is presumably kind of ingress/egress parking not gonna be a issue during football games kind
037of easement I assume that was tightly written so that it it won't cause problems cuz I know that has been problems on a lot of the shared driveways in the area question about bike hoops so can you show where the bike hoops are so there are bike hoops over here and then there's a bike Locker up in this island and then there's also spaces in each of the units there's a space for a class a bike as well and so there's nothing in the front no that is another concern for me looking at the buildings that have been built recently in the area an enormous number of bikes like if you look at 6:15 South Main enormous number of bikes but we've noticed that the bikes are right where the entrances are and so for
038people to take the bike around less likely then locking it up to whatever is closest to their entry so if people are going in those front doors you know the people who live in that front area don't have a spot to put their bikes and so it's just kind of a comment because that's become sort of an issue like bikes are locked to all sorts of places because people don't want to walk around and lock their bike up but I'm not gonna hold this up for that but just comment that people seem to want the bikes right where they go in their their places and they will leave them there regardless um I did have a comment to um about the that this building matches what else is on the block it matches what else
039is on the block that has been built in the last five to ten years and it does not at all and I know that there were notes in the staff notes that it does not at all match the original houses and the original buildings and this will actually back up on a few very small houses from the turn of the century and just it's okay that it looks different but it is not it does not reflect the nature of the of the neighborhood and and to say that is a little like we built this and now it reflects the the other one we built across the street well yes so um and then I just had a question and I don't know because if you know so we had talked about the crosswalk on Hill
040Street right there and I know it was we had discussed that for another and I don't know if it was the building across hill but nothing's happened with that crosswalk and I didn't know if anything if that was something that we could follow up on I will follow up because we keep adding it to different proposals and I'm not sure anything's ever and you know which crosswalk I mean the one right on unhit all closest to this it's it's sort of mid block not quite Adams but Hill and green and this was part of a previous proposal I I don't we have talked about it and I don't if anyone else remembers we had talked about that in other proposals but I don't know if we ever included it in so that is something that
041I would like to have at least traffic take a look at or what I have to say I'm sure Briggs struck when I look at this that it just seems to be jamming as much of a building as possible onto that property this is kind of is that fair a fair assessment that it's sort of using as much space is it sort of can it is meeting all the setbacks in fact it has an increased rear setback it's a tight sight because of the conflicting land-use buffers that are also required around there you could make the argument could they have made it longer that's possible but I didn't do any type of alternatives analysis with this but I'm sure they've looked at you know what would fit on the site and the building envelope and
042constructed what was right because I'm looking at it and as I went and visited the space beef the existing building there before there's currently a huge grassy yard that you know obviously the house itself is sort of falling down but it has a fair amount of usable green space around it and I'm trying to understand sort of the minimum the open space requirements so it says can you help me understand the comparison chart where we say minimum open space not applicable and then yes there's a minimum open space requirement in the r4c district which is 40% you are allowed to use sidewalks balconies the conflicting land use buffer green space rain gardens etc so they've done the calculation they meet the minimum 46% there's also an act open space where it has to be a
043minimum life I think of like of 200 square feet where you could you know I think you somebody used an example of put a blanket out or be able to have a picnic something along those lines and it's 300 square feet per dwelling unit and again they've showed that it's 333 square feet so there are areas for students to be able to you know some active space so could you come up and show where that that's useful space is so I think one of the things that might make it look a little skewed is that shared driveway so the property line actually goes right down that shared driveway as well so there are you know this is open space I'll you know the rain garden ponds here and then there's rain garden along this retaining
044wall here but there's a large area here that's meant to be active open space there's the patio in the rear there's the porch in the front and then there is the front yard so when when we do go through the calculations it does show that there's 46% open space on the side like I said I think it might be a little when you look at the the surrender drawing it looks like a lot of pavement because we're also counting what's on the neighbor's property as well into that driveway so the rain garden is being counted within that that required 40% yeah I mean and but I mean in terms of that active space no not for the active so case the active space cannot include the rain garden and then I guess the question without
045this easement in place to combine those driveways would this work I mean without the I mean basically what I'm seeing is that there's they're sort of maximizing the amount of space and increasing as large a building as they sort of can conceivably with the with the parking but it doesn't that's requiring a variance from the CBA to make that happen right that's correct I don't know about the dimensions not in here the minimum size of the driveway is between eighteen and a maximum of 24 feet could they have shifted the building further to the west and actually got thrown dry I'll probably defer to the petitioner to see if it was possible so the property is only sixty six feet wide mm-hmm if we have to provide both of the landscape buffers along with both
046property lines that would take up 30 feet and then a driveway would take up another 18 we would be left with 18 feet then assuming you need three to five feet along the side of a building to get entrances in and out of it we would have you know like a 12 to 15 foot wide building well I mean there's a building there right now that's quite sizable so it's working fine right but they they're they don't have to provide the conflicting landscape buffer and they don't have to meet the driveway requirement at 18 feet okay thank you so so we were we would require for any sort of new development here that uh that a driveway and parking be that's that's correct at a single or two family would allow a minimum of ten
047feet where that multi-family would be an eighteen and then oh sorry the other question could you talk a little bit about the materials that are being used are they sort of similar to the building that most recently was built across the street or what what does that look like yes the exterior finishes will be similar to what is what was done across the street the the idea be a combination of lap siding and using the the hardy product which is a cement tshis some siding and also the large panels as as an additional way to put that up okay thanks commissioner so they units and the egress wells and the AC units and bike parking surrounding those I see that the South West unit is surrounded on two side so the to see part bike
048parking and AC unit and then the only kind of exit out of that egress well would be towards the rain garden and then the Southwest unit you're blocked by the porch the AC units and the refuse container area so both of those in terms of how those like silly pieces are sited feel like they're blocking egress which is a very concerning to me but if we're putting bedrooms in the basement we've got us wells and you've blocked them with bike parking and the same with those refuse containers my concern is those double stacked the residents may not go you know to the rear of that bin to throw the recycling in properly close those gates those gates if left open door unhooked open up into that driveway so the the rear arrangement of bike parking
049a scene and the garbageman's kind of Concerned me and they're kind of compact location relative to the building in the driveway and egress safety so I would make a recommendation that those those need to be relocated to comply with life safety for the building especially you've got five AC units rumbling right outside a bedroom window so what might comply with you know setbacks to other housing that's a that's difficult for that resident so even I asked me you know where those AC units placed if it is a single phase we only have the refuse containers kind of noted if it's phase one so is there plan for those units temporarily and then relocate it if they are in the back so I guess my question is other alternatives to relocating any of those pieces in
050the back of the site and go you know the one to the west which is on the bottom that's just a bike whoo so that's not a locker that would impede someone from getting out of that window and I think the easy to get out of the well to the you know in the Westbrook direction in that particular well I think for the South East well we could easily relocate one AC unit to provide a path I mean they you see units I don't think are gonna be in reality they're not as big as they're showing up on this drawing so I think they're even if we arrange them this way I think there's still be space between them is there prop is their appropriate daylight down to that bedroom when it's surrounded by fenced
051area for garbage and then AC units around the perimeter of it for both of those even with bikes not in a bike container like that is an obstruction to the space so they daylighting and yeah access an obstruction so I'm in the day lighting that's required by code will be met okay and that's kind of where we're squeezed with setbacks and things for those all of those things you believe yeah it's definitely we are you know maxing out what is allowed to be done by I think there's a follow-up question with regards to zoning or not zoning but facing if you end up phase in the first where he build the first phase where the AC units going since I'm assuming they're not gonna be there and the bike coops and such I believe knows
052yeah yeah so that's not noted for phase one location I don't think we necessarily decided where the things well know exactly for we don't we still don't even know whether it's gonna have to be phase depending on the city's schedule the water main thank you well we are there's only one bike space that's required for the entire development the phasing there will be the unit in the front will have a white space in it that's required so that that requirement for bike parking is met even with the phasing and along with the dumpsters - that's that dumpster that's near the front of the property I mean as far as for phase if it is phase and phase one there's gonna be plenty of space for condenser units and trash because there'll be a lot of
053open land for only phase one so if it's if your concern is you know the exact location of those first two AC units I'm not sure but they'll be probably put close to the building in phase one and then move to where you see them now for Phase two yeah I think the concern primarily is those five units and those six refuse containers all bundled right at that corner you know even if that bike Locker moves and you can line all six of those refuse containers up in a row that would give you no residents access for better habits I can just the way those things are laid out or don't make good habits which makes people not use them which makes them not put them away you know which surahs' is playing on the
054site this layout was based on the experience that we've had at other sites with with this property across the street that was just developed has the stat containers and they do use them it hasn't been a problem and they what I was trying to avoid is having one really long not very pleasant looking trash enclosure that would end up being like almost 20 feet long this looked nicer and I do think they will use it yeah it's you know it's they're just cards they're not three feet so they can get their recycle to the back cart commissioner get Brandel could we go up to that so I'm I'm trying to figure out some materials here because on some of this site plans I don't see where the sidewalk pavement is on the site plan that
055was a neat racket but when I look at this rendering go back to the perspective that looks pretty different to me in terms of what's happening on the east side of the building there's no refu stuff there's no bike locker in fact it's all green including what I would love to see is a tree there in the parking lot and that was one of the things I was considering asking actually because you don't have a conflicting land-use buffer on that side nor you're asking for a variance wouldn't it be nice just to have a canopy tree there to be able to help shades a lot and things like that but then and I was thinking oh that could maybe work but then not in the packet that we got got up you track of it
056in the other rendered plan view plan it looks like that whole little what could be a landscape island is pavement there so I was trying to understand where the person for the bike locker where they come up to enter their bike into the bike Locker and we're like where's your ramp and slide where's your handicap ramp where where how are people getting it has beds at grade with the parking lot everything is it great yes okay so there's no Sun or curb there's no stuff okay well there was also a curb in that perspective to that which would have been P and I would love to put a tree in that Island I had a tree in an island I never lovey put one there but you know in the past we've always been asked
057to provide more bicycle parking for the students and that's where the Locker fit and that's where we could get in and out of it and so that's why it's in that location so my question then is where are they accessing the locker from the ends from the south and from the south and South End so are there covered bike spaces in the unit's themselves yes okay so then why the covered by like why the locker tent for Chris was not happy with allowing us to use the interior one County lift or that's correct I like I'm gonna count those that's great they went above and beyond but I didn't count those as an official official bike space and so you find it's going to be enclosed he is the architect is correct I wouldn't count
058lost where's the bicycle park okay City allowed us to count them at the project process team so okay we can have our disagreements about whether we should have two hoops and a tree versus one covers I would vote for them the tree but I'm not the one I'm not the staff reviewing it we can all have our opinions about that but I do feel like it is a missed opportunity and in otherwise what you won't you won't have a buffer there you know so and I you know you set yourself up by putting it in the rendering so it also is probably less than the eight-foot dimension that they require for a minimum but you wouldn't have had to count it towards your landscape requirement anyway right it's not required to put the tree there
059for your interior landscaping earth yeah so you could have gotten away with the seven-foot island but okay oh I'll back down commissioner whether we so how do people access these five units the so the front two units clearly are accessed from the walkway from the sidewalk and the other units are accessed from either walking along the driveway or there's you know a little bit of land available between the driveway and the window wells on the east side of the property and then for the for the rear to unit so then you would continue around to the back porch so the middle unit just kind of they scoot down the driveway yeah but yeah they're but there's a decent amount of space between their front door and the driveway and will that be is it is
060it paved or greener well there'll be other units are now there'll be a stoop a wood deck and then and then some steps down and then as far as the actual material on the on grain between those steps and the driveway I'm not sure what that's gonna be if we go back to the and go back to what I do where's the empathy daddy go back to full screen you can't see them like I apologize for your screen here yeah it's kind of small if you go down towards the bottom left yeah sure you click on the little screen okay but if you can see you know you can see the porch the stoop here for that middle unit you see my cursor so you can see how the the front door will be in
061this wall so you've got you know decent amount of space between your front door and the driveway and you'll have your your student give me some steps down yeah I'm I'm more concerned about how they get because if that's a shared driveway people coming in and out and if they're heading down the driveway that if they have to walk down the driveway to get to their unit that's what I'm concerned about so the you know we had that one walkway in the front and then a path from the driveway to the back two units and then like I said there's there's a strip of land along the driveway but I do you know there it is it does get tight between the window wells in the driveway commissioner bricks could you remind me what is
062it required with the the driveway for multifamily that's a minimum 18 feet in the maximum of 24 so conceivably in another variance could be asked for to reduce the the in 18-foot driveways I I understand our requirements but it seems insane well it's meant for too late traffic it's meant for someone could come in and other person to go out at the same time which i think is a a good thing for yeah race okay but you can whether you if you can do that and for that 16 foot driveway if people are driving slow and carefully commissioner mouse kind of just to follow up to that given the discussion that we just had from my perspective like yeah 18 feet you know it seems like a lot for a driveway having that as a
063shared internal walkway to in my mind makes a lot more sense so I think that's a wise use of space any other comments or questions I do have one question in regards to building materials I know we've been it's been asked a couple of times but so what is the plan for the exterior building materials exactly so it's a the the blue and gray you see on the screen is lap siding the hardy lap siding and then where the lighter gray or white is hearty panels so I can show you based on the other development across the street so here you can see the darker gray is the lap siding and the lighter gray are the panels so it's gonna be it'll be similar materials Thank You Sherman um I just want to just quickly
064with the petitioner is it your intention to move one of the AC units away from the would that be the south east basement well I think I think I take commissioner surveys point pretty seriously that that's getting pretty tight as an emergency egress okay what we were trying to do was to keep a clear walkway around the back of his building so that they could get to the dumpsters easily or get over to the bike lock or easily but we could we can look at I think that's something I pay close attention to and it should I come to City Council for the discussion we ready for a vote I think just and I just want to say this because this one is a little bit difficult for me I think I don't have a
065lot of things that I can vote that I feel really strongly to vote against it but this is not something that's like yay I mean I live two blocks from here and it's it feels very much like you're maximizing what you want but there's not a lot for the residents or the neighborhood or the the city I mean there's no there's no accessible housing and there's no like it just feels very I think they're very you know thirty foot you've really maxed out everything and it just feels a little like okay yeah I mean it it conforms and I get that but you know sometimes it's nice to have a little something that feels a little less a little more like like housing in a neighborhood and I don't object to the number of people
066I would actually in some ways prefer less parking because I know that contribute so much to the costs and the spacing and and I know that's hard to do but it just feels very it's it's very maximized I think and and it's it's a little hard to feel good about voting for this because you haven't given us a lot to say oh this is great you know there's no green features there's no the outdoor space is very tucked in and and there's it's just it makes it hard to to really feel enthusiastic it's my one comment about that is that the you know the the developer is very driven to provide quality housing for the tenants and you know I work on a lot of student housing throughout Ann Arbor and you know what this
067developer is building is me granted I'm not including the the new high-rises but as far as that the things are more lower density you know the quality inside is is far superior than you know 98 percent of any of the student housing I have seen in Ann Arbor um it's just that I live in this neighborhood and and when you're looking at the difference between student housing versus housing for anyone mm-hmm it it starts to to feel like and it is great that they look nice they do look nice from the inside I don't go inside so I have to judge from the outside right and how they affect the neighborhood and how they are for the people who live around there but I think you can feel good at least about the the tenants
068are getting quality housing and you know the bedrooms are nicely sized they're large and yeah you know other developers might have built this same number of bedrooms a number units with a smaller footprint and given every student you know the absolute minimum bedroom size that's allowed by Building Code and it would have been you know miserable housing so I think I think there is even though granite the neighbors and people walking by don't get the benefit of what's about being gone inside but I think the as far as just benefiting the students living there and this developer is providing a much you know higher quality than typical for Ann Arbor just I think a really good thing further discussion can we shake her down I don't have too much to say thanks for my fellow
069commissioners for the questions myself and I'll say I think there's things I don't like about this and for me what it brings up is it makes me not like our foresee zoning because I think a lot of the things that are being like a lot of the pressure is being put on this like our core see and hopefully conflicting line these buffers work kind of our dictating what we're getting and we don't like what we're saying we should change the rules task force that looked at this so I have a hard time getting mad at somebody who's trying to provide more housing when we desperately need it and we don't like like it's not my ideal solution but like if I think of it as owning in this we don't like it is there someone
070on this side did I see another hand Commissioner Weatherby you turned your microphone degree getting ready to vote right so any further discussion all right all those in favor please say aye hi opposed it's proof thank you moving on to audience participation this is the time for audience to address the Planning Commission those in the audience you will have three minutes to address the Planning Commission please state your name for the record and your address and you may address the plan commission seeing no one we will move on to Commission proposed business do we have any Commission proposed business this evening it's only been nine years all right any other commission proposed business do you have a motion to adjourn move back Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner Sauve all those in favor we are adjourned
071thank you you