001going to have to push it when the light is green, like bright green, not dark green. Um, and then it's on. And turn it on. All right. Good morning. If everyone will please stand for a moment of silence. Thank you. You may be seated. call this meeting to order. At 8:04, we're going to stand again for the pledge of allegiance that will be led by Mr. Mike Kramer. Thank you. And I think I'll turn it over to Who am I turning it to? T M Mr. Moore. All you. >> All right. Good morning. Can we have the presentation up? There we go. All right. Good morning. Uh today I am super excited about this uh activity, this first activity today uh for capital planning. Um we have myself and Mr. Kramer, uh, who'll be joining
002us today, have been working diligently on, um, categorizing, um, all of our assets into needs, into categories, and trying to a future plan, uh, for Mesa Public Schools, what our capital needs will be for the future, and then, um, bring the board along today through the same activity. So, uh, that was what we'll be doing today. Um, I do want to start with kind of a homework recap. So, I know we did kind of send uh Skylines data to all the board members um prior to uh today. And I just had a couple questions if we can. I guess I have the dice so I can go from my right. Uh uh go go go around uh Robin to each board member and kind of um really just kind of get a feel for uh
003a few questions um as you guys went through that activity um to help set the framework for today as we dive into elementaryaries, junior high, and high schools again um in a little more collaborative fashion. So, Miss Hutchinson, I don't know if you feel ready to share about your Skyline activity experience. We have three questions. Um, we'll just start with the first question. What was the hardest part about the activity? >> So, the um hardest part was 482 entries. uh probably not enough time, but um I think part of the problem is we don't know the context of all of that data. Um don't know um the the history of the building. um the needs of the staff. Um don't know the academic uh programming that would um uh support be supported by um um
004aspects of say facilities andor um um site uh requirements whether they be in the arts or or in athletics. Um but obviously um we as a board our responsibility is to um improve what kids know and what they can do. So um academic outcomes I think always has to be in the forefront. Um, however, um, um, I think Miss Benson and I would agree that that, uh, no learning takes place when the air conditioning goes out. No learning takes place when the bathrooms are backing up. No learning takes place when the electricity goes off. So, um, and when you think about things like that, um, uh, you know, facilities and and kind of the I I guess you'd say the unsexy, um, maintenance requirements are sometimes first and foremost. But for me, um, academic outcomes
005and supporting academic outcomes always has to be first and foremost. and making sure that every kid in every school, no matter where they are in the district, has access to quality education and that their academic outcomes are impacted by what we do as a board. >> Just keep going around to Miss Benson. Do you want to share the hard part of the activity? Oh, I don't have to push it. Uh, so I would agree with member Hutchinson that um no learning can take place without a functioning building. Um, the hardest part of the activity for me is that I am not a construction person. And uh, as I looked um, I didn't I didn't know some of the terms. I didn't know some of the codes. I don't know if they're important without knowing what
006they actually do. and I am very much an input person. Um, the other hardest part of the activity for me was seeing the pricing of some of the stuff. We run a small air conditioning company and I'm just telling you the pricing on the HVAC to me seems completely ludicrous to pay half a million dollars for an air handler. So, I'd love to see what it does. like is it sprinkled with gold and it you know pixie dust or whatever. It's to me that was absolutely appalling. The hardest part is I don't know what is the most important without knowing what each item does. Um my top priorities just like uh member Hutchinson is student academics and um academic outcomes. Again can't have that without a functioning building. Uh but we also can't have a
007functioning bill a building without um financial stability. So that was my number two and my number three is student safety and kind of went down. Uh so were we supposed to answer both questions at the same time? >> That's fine. Right. >> We're just going with flow today. >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. But um I think that is I if we want to be sustainable uh we have to look at all of our capital needs in a objective fashion. Uh the other difficult part for me was knowing that Skyline is our least populated high school and um putting that as a or using that school as our walkth through for uh capital needs assessments. >> Member Chaffy. Yeah, I echo what my fellow board members said, which is we need to prioritize academic outcomes, and
008that's something we've committed to as a board, and we know that we want to attract students to Mesa by offering highquality education. We want to take care of the students that we have by offering them highquality educational opportunities. So, for me, that also ranked first. And similar to my board members, I looked at it and went, I don't know what most of these things do, and I don't know how urgent they are and how important they are to providing learning spaces. Like, is this an an exterior building that we're not going to be using, then I'm not going to prioritize that. If this is a core academic classroom, absolutely, we should prioritize that. As an arts person, it was hard for me to make that decision and look at, you know, do we really need
009a new stage? We would like to, yes, but is that going to be the highest priority? That's going to be a tough one, right? And I think that comes with our with our athletics as well as we know that we need to make updates um to those facilities. But for me, at the end of the day, if we are not providing robust academic experiences, then I think we're going to be failing our students. So, that was my biggest priority. And then the second part is student safety. And um I was talking about this with a group of friends and they said, "I don't want security theater," which is like the appearance of security. I really would want to prioritize things like our fire safety, making sure that all of our, you know, fire code systems
010work. Um and making sure that the air conditioning is functioning because we know how vital that is, especially as we're looking at starting towards the end of July. Okay. I think that that's a concern that comes up in in people's minds often is how can we make sure that we're providing safe, cool learning spaces. Um, and then for me, I also want to keep an eye on financial sustainability because we know that we want to make smart decisions for a district that keep us open for a long time and keep us moving forward and continue to care for the students in Mesa. So, those became my priorities. And I think the hardest part was not knowing what it was, what each item was. there's a lot of repetition. So, knowing like where do those happen?
011Um, and then knowing that we're going to have to make tough decisions. You know, I talked to a science teacher who said, "Please just replace the roof." And and she said, "I keep all of my stuff in plastic bins because I know that every time it rains, all of my stuff is going to get wet every time." And just knowing that at one site we have $40 million worth of repairs is a little overwhelming as a board member. And to know that this is one building across the district and so many of our buildings are old and in in need of repair and that that feels a little discouraging sometimes. Ditto. Um kind of going on with everyone else. I think the hardest part for me was knowing like end of life. Um I kept
012calling Wes, okay, what would this be? Because I do he does do construction. So I was like, what would this be? Anyway, part of it was, do some of these still have life to them? Do is it necessary that they be replaced? Are we just replacing because it's on that that cycle? Um, that was probably the hardest part knowing because I do think to learn you have to have AC and so all the and plumbing and those things are of course my priority and it was like Lacy said um it was hard knowing like I also see when our kids are doing a play how important it is that they have great microphones and those things. So, it's hard to to rank it because I want to be like, well, everything, but that's not um
013fiscally responsible right now. And so, I think um understanding more of what each item is, going through it. This will be helpful to see um and the importance and I agree um I think I can echo everyone on the academic importance and then safety also was one of mine. Making sure that our our facilities are safe for our kids. And so I think I'll turn it to board member Alden. >> Yeah. So it it's it is difficult because when you try to rank what's most important, you're not going to make every everybody happy in the community. Like everyone's going to argue about what they think is is most important. So um that was challenging. And then not really having a comparison. Like I'm I'm assuming on on the data that okay, well this is the
014best price that we can get for this product, but I I don't know. So because I have nothing to to compare it to. So it it it was a lot of money, a lot of uh different expenditures and that was uh difficult to try to rank that. Uh what what surprised me is kind of how I felt about rankings because I think my opinions have changed since the first time I was on the board in my first year. I I do agree that academic outcomes are the most important. And I think that if you had a school that was highly successful and your students are going to Ivy Leagues when they get out, they're not really going to care what the school necessarily looks like. So I think having strong outcomes will attract and retain
015students even if maybe the building's out of date. Uh and then I think student safety came after that one too. The uh part that surprised me was my prioritization of the HVAC, electrical and plumbing because I don't think I had thought about it the same way before but having having learned more and those areas are more important than like your theater or it necessarily because they'll cause big problems down the road. So, if you're cutting your preventative maintenance, like sorry, the town of Gilbert did, they really did and now they're leaking raw sewage into the ground and they've got hundreds of millions of dollars of repairs. So, the plumbing and electrical, like if you're neglecting that can compound and have a big snowball effect down the road. So, I was thinking about that one that
016yeah, I mean, you you can't neglect that stuff. Um then when you do have hundreds of millions of dollars of repairs, you can't do the other cool stuff like the theater room and the stage and the other fun stuff that kids like. So that was a um when I was thinking about and ranking it, like that was the part where I'm like, "Oh yeah, I've definitely have more perspective about this now, having more experience in these different areas." And uh yeah, I guess guess that's it for now. We'll probably go over this some more. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that gives us some good data points. We intend to cover more of the assets today. So, we'll kind of teach you what each one of those mean. Um, kind of we can touch on the pricing
017that we currently have in there um throughout this activity. But that gives us a good baseline and it gives you guys kind of a lens on some of the data that we'll be looking at today, which I think will be effective in our time today. So, >> Mr. Mark, >> yeah. Can I piggy back off something that member Walden so uh she said one of the most difficult things was is this the best pricing um so at some point and maybe it's not appropriate today but uh we go through an RFP process and a pro procurement process to get uh bids and to decide who we um is there something within that process potentially that needs to change so that because I am appalled at the pricing of some of these things I just I
018I just think it's ridiculous. So, is it is there something in the process that perhaps makes it that we as a government entity are paying more than maybe a private entity would? So, could we and it's you're not prepared for it today, but can you update us on what is a RFP process? What is a like how do we get the most competitive bids? We still want quality work and I'm not saying that the lowest priced person is the best person for the job. However, we do want fiscal sustainability. We want our money being used wisely. So, I'd love information on that process and whether or not we need to advocate for perhaps opening it up. >> Member Benson, just real briefly, the RFP process is defined by Arizona Administrative Code and it is an
019extensive process. Pricing has to be by law part of the equation. I I do if you've ever been in a district that was Mesa was growing in the 80s and 90s. Uh the whole hard bid concept ended up being something that was not uh valued to districts because you'd hard bid something, the low number would end up winning. Hard bid, low number wins, and then you learn on the backside that you spend a lot of money on lawyers litigating why things aren't functioning the way they're supposed to be. and you have a back and forth with lawyers and you spend your money on lawyers as opposed to getting high quality equipment the first time. I'm certainly open to bringing we are certainly open to bringing stuff back to the board to help people understand and
020certainly waiting systems and mechanics and RFP for pricing can be adjusted so that pricing matters more or less. What you don't want to get back into is a hard bid situation because I can guarantee where that'll head. That'll head straight to lawyers battering lawyers company between company. So, I honor everything you said and we certainly can bring some information back to you on the RFP process. >> Well, I I totally agree. The lowest price is not generally the best price. Uh quality, reputation. Do you actually stand by your work? Those are by far more important than pricing. Uh but we don't need to have the most expensive. uh because they are not always the ones who have quality and standing and whatever. So >> me I think an information item to explain public procurement may
021be something that we can do to share that um limitations and maybe restrictions that government entities have with regards to procurement um and the rules that we have to follow. >> I'm on Yeah. So I I think that's something we can put on our our list. The And then a general note on the pricing. A lot of the pricing are estimates or um dollar amounts that we've uh inputed that have contingencies in in included into them. This plan if you know any sort of capital plan is typically for five to seven years, right? And so understanding the pricing um needs to hold. If we were present pricing into a public form, we would never want to come back and say, "Oh, we need to we we price too low, right? We have to come back."
022So, a lot of this pricing does include contingencies or um cost escalations from year to year um in which we would want to be upfront forward with and hopefully come under budget so then we can move some of those dollars to other projects. So, >> Mr. more real briefly. Uh in in planning bonds for for school districts, often times a current elementary school back in 2020 could have been built for 16 million, but in a bond package, you'll take it at 21 million, right? To build that elementary school. Now, elementary schools are 60,000 square foot square foot elementary schools much more expensive than that now. But I'm just giving you an example. Why would the district take a Why would a district take a bond package at 21 million knowing they just built a school
023at 16 million? Uh can you talk a little bit about that? You talked cost escalation. I'm trying to give you a leading question here. So talk talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah, I think uh myself or Mr. Kramer can speak to the cost escalation, but I mean just infl general inflation maybe Mr. Kramer better suited as he's daytoday into the >> certainly the cost of construction typically does not go down right so uh Dr. Stro's example of the cost per square foot in 2020 is significantly higher than that right now. So you were not going to buy out an elementary school even in 2020 16 to 18 million was considered a deal. So building in uh inflationary uh factors into your cost estimates is a is a great best practice when performing capital
024planning. So I would answer that initially. >> Okay. Moving to today's activity, um kind of want to highlight the purpose and objectives of today is really planning responsibly for the district's long-term future. We're trying to look multiple years out, uh five to 10 years out, establishing shared understanding of district needs. Um as we're all here at the the same table, we want to understand um and come to some conclusion of what we all feel some our district needs need to be. uh prioritize those needs across elementary, middle, and high school levels. We'll look at each of those schools in different lenses in different activities. Align those capital investments with enrollment and community realities. Mr. Benson mentioned enrollment with Skyline, right? Um and making sure that we are aligning our capital investments where enrollment is or
025where future enrollment will be. U pro provide direction for future planning and budgeting. We hope this activity today gives us some direction um as we continue to plan uh for a potential election or just future capital planning. I then clarify choices and decision criteria. Um this is underlined and italicized. Um why we want to understand some of the lenses in which we are making decisions. Um and you as the governing board um have the ultimate you authority to call for elections and some of those things. So we want to understand and make sure we align um the decisions the capital planning that we bring up that they're aligned with the board um as we go through right I just alluded to the board's role governance long-term stewardship taxpayer dollars that includes calling for elections um
026and financial planning um you guys already mentioned it in that Skyline activity balancing student needs facilities and financial resources um it's a it's a difficult conversation Um, I don't envy the board, but we are here to support you and trying to uh bring align those resources uh and align your vision and and bring forth plans to ensure those um all align. So, some of the realities that are shaping our decisions today, one, I don't think this is not new news. We've been talking about this is our declining enrollment. Uh you know, we've done several enrollment presentations recently. Uh I just put a couple bullet points up from our recent presentations. You know, just from 2023 to what we're projecting next year, you know, we're almost 10,000 students down. You know, 8,000 students and projected enrollment
027down for 2027 from 23. Um that is a a reality that we are facing and that we'll continue to face. and the foreseeable future. And so that needs to be a lens as we're making decisions. Aging facilities, I've done several community meetings uh discussing our capital planning. Um highlighted some of our aging facilities with regards to Emerson and Carson. Um those those facilities were built in the the 60s and over 60 years old. Um that's just one point. You know, those are just two examples of schools that are old. We we have across our district a number of aging facilities which is uh adding to our 1.4 billion in capital needs across our district. So um a lot of those aging facilities had def deferred maintenance. Um it's put us in the position where we
028are today. It's to nobody's fault. It's really a function of how public schools are funded in today's uh in the state of Arizona. And so but that's a reality that we have to face as we tackle this capital planning. and three, limited and uncertain capital funding sources. We currently have no bond funds in place. We have limited state grant funds uh with regards to uh the building renewal program from the state. And so how do we um live into this uh uncert you know I guess live into our limits within our what capital funding we have available uh going forward. I think I presented this slide at the community meeting. I don't know if everybody has seen this, but this for con is a little for context on how much uh Mesa public schools would
029receive on a charter funding model. Um so in red, this represents our current capital funding. It's also referred to um at the state level as district additional assistance and that's what you'll see on budget forms is it's a more formal, but we commonly refer to it or use the language capital funding. And so this is our current funding that we get from the state on a on an annual basis and it's based off enrollment. You can see um the enrollment from a prior fiscal year. Uh so that will change but as enrollment declines this will total budget will go down. Um or if our enrollment increases this budget would go up slightly. But if you look at the bottom right on the the red table you'll see we get about $28.6 million in capital funding.
030And that's intended not only to support Mr. Kramer and our maintenance and operation needs, but also Tra Miss Easur and instruction um software um textbook adoptions um all of our capital resources throughout our district that 28 million is is intended to fund and support. For context again on the blue graph um charters um charter additional assistance when charter schools were approved by the state in 1995 their formula was after the current funding formula that schools get which the current funding formula that we're operating on is from the 1980s. their formula when they were adopted by the state in 1995 included inflation on the capital level and it wasn't an issue at the time because the intention was to support charter schools because they can't go out for elections um such as bonding and override. However,
031as bond and overrides have now become more difficult to pass in this economic you know times um and inflation has basically compounded over time. This original intention to provide inflation for charters has now grown exponentially and has created large discrepancies between public school funding on the capital side and charter school funding on the capital side. So, if Mesa was on the charter funding school model using the same enrollment, we would receive about $13 million in capital funding, which would in in my personal uh opinion, we would not need to bond and override if if we had $13 million to plan annually uh in capital funding dollars. So, really, for context, I don't know if the state there's any appetite. Um we we've tried to push bills and legislation to convert us u to a charter
032model. We we've even I think some of the bills Dr. Shum has said we will forego any future elections if you put us on the charter capital funding model um funding model. And those bills would cost the state hundreds billions of dollars to bring all the public schools up to that level of funding. And so again, until there's um a bunch of money back pumped into the system, this unfortunately will not be a reality. And so this continues to have public schools reliance on additional capital funding via elections um at this point in time. >> Mr. tomorrow. Was that not the lawsuit that was that moving us into a what what was the lawsuit discussing capital funding that >> Yeah, the lawsuit that's currently likely to be under appeal. The decisions made appeal is going
033to happen likely and that lawsuit is due to uh lack of funding the basic need formula to meet minimum add requirements and legislation that was put into place back in the 1990s via Roosevelt versus Bishop if I remember the case right. So, there's charter school funding, which is a whole different concept, and then the state's inability to keep up with making sure the basic needs of school districts are constitutionally met via Roosevelt v. Bishop. Um, and so that uh not that I the charter school funding formula does get mentioned in the lawsuit, but wasn't the crux of what the lawsuit was founded on. One other little caveat there, that's about an $80 million difference. And we in Mesa public schools run 10-year bond cycles and pay off uh bonds within 10 years, which saves a
034lot of interest for the taxpayers. That's a reason. It's very fiscally conservative to do that. Well, $80 million difference multiplied by 10 years is $800 million of capital funds just to relate it to, you know, a bond size of what 80 million extra dollars a year could equate to in our typical bonding cycle. Sorry, but since I'm an input person, do we know how many uh of the charter schools are actually private entities that uh are funded that are actually like Ball Charter, for example, is owned by the Ball Corporation, I believe. It's a private entity, but it's a public charter school. >> Uh, >> is that not right? >> So, in the state of Arizona, I'm trying to think of one that's public. So in other states, school boards can charter through their school
035board, right? In the state of Arizona, we charter through a state charter board. And so I'm thinking 100% of the charter schools are privately owned, either through an individual family situation, or through what they call CMOs, which are charter management organizations. I can't think of a school district that has a charter underneath it. And I think the state statute took that ability away back in 2011. >> Yeah. Member the general mechanism which they they get to the privately owned is they do a a management organization that basically managed like they outsource all their administrative work to said management group. But the charter in in its sense is is public but the outsource those to management groups which if um our school spending report will come out eventually and you will see like in public schools
036we represent administration right supporting administration represents about 9 to 10% of the total expenditures for a district. on charters the ch those administrative costs are upwards of 20 25% and that's where you get the private kind of um uh where am I going with this? Yeah, benefits that kind of show the inequities between how public schools administration supports them versus charter schools. Um but it's via that those management companies Okay. Um, just to recap, here are some of the options that we have to increase capital funding. I'm just going to highlight a couple of these building renewal grants. We did do a board presentation study session on that. Uh, Mr. Kramer and his team um are constantly um working to uh uh capture those grants from the state. Uh the state as I've mentioned in
037that presentation has already over obligated the amount of money that they get um from the legislature and so um and plus they have a backlog of about $250 million in projects. Um and again as a reminder they get appropriated about 200 million in um capital uh grants that they can provide out. Uh to date, I know the board has already approved about $13 million in roofing grants that we've gotten and we'll continue to um whether we have an election or not, try to capture as much uh state funding via this grant program as possible. Voter for bonds. Um Mesa has had a history in the last decade of approving bonds up until recently. Currently, we don't have any bonds, but that is another mechanism which we can ascertain capital funding. Voter approved capital overrides Mason
038Public Schools has never done a capital override. It operates much like a maintenance and operations override and which we do have in place. Uh the cap is 10% of the RCL and in layman's terms that would provide about $40 million in capital funding for seven years. And that mechanism does not have any principal or interest. It's a straight tax, a property tax uh that levies that $40 million annually for seven consecutive years. and then you would have to choose either to go out and renew that or you can let that expire. Long-term leasing, uh we have the board has approved um several leases with regards to Polaris. We've um uh the board we have a number of cell towers throughout our district that provide some of this leasing revenue. That leasing revenue goes into a
039bucket called school plant and that bucket can be used for capital funding. we are uh we do leverage that bucket um as much as possible but again that that is a for context we get about six to 7 million annually in kind of leasing right now we're trying to continue to expand that and grow that so we can uh use those lease funds uh purposely throughout the district to fund capital investments but is not a he would not you guys went through the skyline activity right it would not address uh no more than one/4th of that need um on Skyline. So, we compound that across our district. Uh it's not a huge viable solution to address all of our capital needs. And then the Jason Ways levy, the board did approve on the adopted and
040proposed budget going into this year a levy for adjacent ways. And that levy is one of the few uh that the board has autonomy to to tax our local constituents uh for this particular funding source. This funding source can be used to address and capital fund public rideaways. Um these include bus lanes, um sidewalk replacements, um any sort of public rideway uh that either is adjacent to our school or on our school. Also fire life safety um driveways. Mr. Kramer's um been working on uh plans. Um we are um well through majority of that funding that was levied into this year. uh as a number of our schools have uh several fire lanes that are either inaccessible or need um improvements. Um and so we'll I think in status have an update for the board
041on how that funding how that levy is going uh in the projects that we've been able to tackle with that. But again that is a very restrictive piece of uh capital funding that we can use for a very finite uh definition. So, but you can see I hope you can see we are leveraging each one of these as as we as we uh best can um to try to bridge the gap between our needs and uh what we have available. >> May I ask a question? >> Yeah. >> So, you had mentioned like fire lanes and so when it comes to fire access and safety, is that always like the entity's responsibility versus the city funding it? Like does it work the same way for for uh commercial or private property as it does for
042education property? >> Do you want to take >> I can't speak to every deal the city makes. I know that in general cities and municipalities attempt to ensure the development costs and developers have the cost of placing the original infrastructure into place. Ongoing infrastructure I'm not sure of. I'm not a city government agent. Okay. Just wanted to to ask about that one because I think I would have thought that like it would have been sort of part of the the city planning, but um it's good good to know that we're responsible for that piece of safety. >> Yeah, in large part we anything on our property we are responsible for. But that's where that mechanism that adjacent mechanism comes into play in which it gives us a a funding mechanism to address those areas. Next
043slide. Okay, getting into the the meat of this activity, I wanted to kind of provide some context of what this intention what today's intention is. So, this is again intended to be a strategic focus, a forward-looking activity focused on impact and sustainability. And what this is not is a final funding decision. This is not going to be our uh we intend to have more activities. This is not a school by school advocacy. We're trying to keep our lens to the district level and a commitment to a specific funding strategy. This is not uh we're not saying today we're going to go out for a bond. We are not saying today we're going to go out for a capital override. Um we are looking strategically at some of the assets that we have of need and
044looking at prioritizing those assets. In terms of uh capital funding needs, I believe the board has seen this slide. Uh but uh just a reminder, some of the uh schools that you'll be tasked with reviewing today are a part of the 13,000 line items that Mr. Kramer uh and his team have identified via a couple different avenues. We've had a third party assessor assess our district. Um, we've still a lot of that information is into this presentation and we'll we'll show you some of that. We've also assessed the district within our own operations team. We have trades that have gone out and verified some of these third party assessments items and also have added individual items as they're intimately aware of some of these sites and items that they may have missed. In addition um
045athletics, theater um what am I missing? Um is technology uh Mr. Al Moore, all those um major um departments have provided input into this uh capital asset list and items um as each one of those departments have various uh capital items that they are involved in or um have needs for example safety and security right front lobbies, security cameras um with is our 1:1 devices, our network infrastructure. So all of those teams have provided input into this. This is not by any means one person. Uh this is a comprehensive list and why it's so long. Um and so that total list 13,000 lines totaling 1.4 billion in needs. The majority in building systems and that really is a highlight to the age of our facilities across the district. So, as we look at this list,
046um you guys have already mentioned it, so I don't really need to reiterate a lot of this, but delaying a lot of our um or deferring a lot of our maintenance um across the board uh increase not only total costs, but also operational risk across our district. Um you can uh read through this u but really minor issues grow to ma you know major issues and often multiplying the cost by two to two to five times when we get to an item that needs emergency replacement. And then if we continue to defer um you know that can affect uh the learning environment if we have to displace students. And so really this slide just to emphasize um deferring and aging equipment has become a little bit of a norm for Mesa as we have no
047bonds and so we are taking already some of this risk across our district. Again, Mr. Kramer is doing his best and to leverage what funding we have. Uh but this is a little bit in place right now as we navigate into a time where we have no bond funding. And then um I believe Miss Menson mentioned to bring this example um to kind of provide some context. So uh if we were to kind of take this 1.4 4 billion and kind of give a little personal home example on if we were to uh fix it. Now, if you look on the left there, you know, if there's some minor roof repairs, um fixing it now may often be may often have a cost incurred to it, but fixing it now um for example, a minor
048roof repair, an HVAC service, or even a replace an aging water heater. Uh those costs now may be far less than if we were to delay. And then those costs cause major issues such as that roof repair turns into small leak and then we cause water damage and mold. You know, you have remediation. Now you have to replace the whole roof or a portion of that roof. An aging HVAC system that's neglected. Um oftent times um can accelerate the wear and tear on that unit then causing us to replace or that unit fails sooner than later when then we get hit with that emergency cost. Same thing with an old water heater. If it fails, um, it bursts, we may have an emergency repair and that may cause flooring repairs, excessive water, damage, etc. And
049so you can see a little bit, right? The fix it now um far cheaper and cost effective than delaying and potentially causing larger damage. And then um just a little bit of a strategic implication with regards to maintenance and aging of equipment. So again, kind of reiterating this here, but addressing major maintenance proactively reduces uh long-term taxpayer costs. Uh failing act leads to more outages, more emergency repairs. Um and really deferred maintenance is not a cost saver, it's a cost multiplier. So, um this is kind of standard for um today's dollar, but every dollar deferred today is about $4 to $7 in future capital costs. And that's about the industry standard going right now. And if you take that across our 1.4 billion in needs, right, we're talking extremely large amounts of money uh that
050we will be putting on future either taxpayers or district administration and schools. So, I hope that kind of gives some context and kind of leads up to this activity that we um have planned today. So, again, the intended outcome of this activity is we're going to look at um want the board to understand um priorities uh and scaling the district needs. We understand we can't realistically ask for 1.4 billion in needs from our taxpayers. That is not possible. We we know that. And so what we want to do today is understand what the board pri board board's priorities are with regards to some of these investments and assets. Um what can be phased or delayed, right? We kind of talked a little bit that with that skyline activity. An example of that of tradeoffs um
051that maybe the board would be willing to defend over time would be uh building systems. Do we fund life safety and failures and defer um other upgrades such as staging, rigging, right, or athletic fields um in place of funding life safety, right? Are those trade-offs that you're willing to make? Um and those are some of the questions that we hope to gather out of this activity. So, we'll go through each uh we've assigned elementary schools to each board member and then we'll pair a cabinet member up with each board member to go through this activity. We'll take about 10 to 15 minutes. Uh Mr. Kramer will be a float. So, um I know we had um questions come in on the pre-activity about what some of the assets were. And so, uh as you're working
052through this, if you have questions, uh Mr. Mr. Kramer will be floating around and kind of answer some of those specifics. Um he'll provide Mr. Kmer is going to provide some context onto some of these master asset items uh that we'll be going through on the sheet. So Mr. Kramer, do you want to go through these >> master asset? >> So the bigger picture with the way that we've categorized those 13,000 plus um rows of data in our in our capital um improvement plan, we it's we took a tertiary approach. So we have the asset type. Okay. So that would be like a package unit air conditioning. That'd be one asset. There's a total of 94 different assets within that that that those 13,000 lines. Those roll up into what we call a planning asset
053type. And we have 39 of those. So again, um, continuing with the HVAC example, if you have an HVAC, a package unit, air conditioning unit, naturally the planning asset type would be HVAC, right? That's the category. Moving on to the third tier um or the um the master asset types as as we call them. We have a total of six of those. So those roll up into building systems. So packaged air conditioning into HVAC and then into building systems. So think about that like in in a pi pie chart so to speak. Um one of the slides that Mr. Moore had presented there shows the six different master asset types. Um this slide of course um lists these. Um I should mention that the focus of our assessments both with the external thirdparty and independent
054um firms that we've hired professional engineers and also operational staff. We really tried to focus on the assets that may cause the most um risk like when it comes to building systems things like mechanical uh plumbing, electrical uh life safety or fire alarms and so forth. Um, we do track these at the asset level. Like in the skyline example, you have a number of rows um for HBAC or air conditioning. And each of those, even though they were installed on on perhaps the same month during the original construction, um they're going to have different um histories of maintenance and such like that on them. So, we like to track things that also like the size, uh the make, the model, the the skew on the unit, and things like that need to be tracked in
055that level of granularity. That same concept also applies to technology. There was also many many many rows of information. Um Mr. Sanders from information systems has listed out all of the MDF and IDF. Those are the the technology rooms if you will in a school facility um by asset. So if you have a switch that has 24 ports, that's naturally going to be less expensive than a switch with 48 ports. So knowing those differences and tracking them at the asset level is important. Um and really that that kind of uh conceptual look at that applies to to the remaining three. So safety and security uh theatrical audio um finishes and so forth. So we're going to be using two um kind of cate uh categories for the scoring matrix. So we're going to be ranking
056impact which impact refers to and I'll have a cheat sheet so you guys can keep this as you go through the activity. uh the degree in which the capital investment improves student outcomes, operational effectiveness, and long-term district sustainability. Think of the significance of this investment when you're ranking impact. So, student safety, daily learning and school operations, district-wide long-term value. And then on the second uh column, you'll be ranking urgency. So, urgency is going to refer to the risk, cost, loss of options created by delaying this capital investment. So urgency does not equal importance in this sense. It's really where is there life safety or system failure risk. What is that on a one to five? Five being absolutely urgent, right? That is an absolutely uh risk to our to that um to the school or
057that asset. One being that's not as urgent, right? And these are individual. You guys each will have individual sheets. Now I'm going to go through and show you a little bit how this works as and through an activity. So before to give you guys some a little bit of context and so um I'm gonna do Emerson give you a little context. Emerson has you again one of our oldest school elementary schools has HR units that are 20 to 25 to 30 years. I >> I do have it up behind you. Um, and so I'll be ranking uh impact urgency across the assets and you'll see a similar sheet as you guys open your spreadsheet. So um I've already sorted this. I think as you guys open your sheets, I would recommend um sorting on master
058asset and then asset type just so you can kind of pair these together and be efficiency and be efficient as you rank these. So uh no judgment here. This is my ranking um as I go through this. But um so you'll be ranking C uh column G and H. And so uh for me um again these are like u Mr. Kramer alluded to these are HVAC packages. They may look redundant but they are for each uh building classroom. Um each one of these is a asset across that campus. Um so for me understanding the well I'm just for me that for me that's a five uh urgency um I know uh in my mind right now some of these things can be repaired and uh potentially um rather than replaced and so urgency for me
059would be a three um for kind of efficient I'm going to copy those all the way down the air conditioning calm because in general um those will all be about the same urgency and or impact and urgency for my purposes. >> Mr. Moore, for the community's purpose, the the air conditioning units that are on top of building 36 through 44 are almost twice as expensive as the ones on top of 33 through 35 to a certain degree. Is that because the tonnage and just the size of the units? Yeah, that's what I figured. Thank you. >> Okay, if I could ask a question. Um, if we just had a qualifier from Mr. Moore, he knows about the air conditioning units. He knows what's repairable. We don't know that. And and the other aspect that I'm
060worried about is we if we're going to be ranking on um impact and urgency particularly on impact uh we haven't had communication with the staff or the students or the community and my the I think the smart money is on two-way communication with our stakeholders. So, I'm I'm really reluctant to prioritize impact and urgency when I don't know enough of the context of these numbers. And when I think about the smart money, I always go back to the Westwood model where there was monies and we asked the community. We took a really deep dive. It started with the staff who said, "Wait a minute. Whoa, you do you know us?" and and then the community was involved deeply and what was decided at that site was based on two-way communication. So, I I'm I'm really
061struggling with ranking things when I don't know the context and uh for example, the the the the state, if you will, of the of the repair or the or the equipment and if I don't know what what the staff, the students, the community wants. >> Member Hudinson. Uh so, Mr. Kramer will be around. That's one of the reasons we have him as a floater. Uh the one thing I've enjoyed about him and his experiences and his short time period here, four years approximately. Uh he knows every building. So as you're ranking these, you can certainly ask him questions like, "Okay, how bad are the units at at school X?" Because I think we're all going to have a different elementary school. Correct. And the idea of this project isn't to get to a finality from
062the board of yes, this is the most urgent and this is the project we're going to do. It's we're trying to gain the general understanding from the governing board of what the categories are so that we can then go back to the drawing board and put together a package for capital needs that is something we can bring to the governing board in May and say here's what we think we can do with this amount of money where that amount of money is $200 million or that amount of money is $450 million. And then uh one of the current concepts that we floated out in uh our uh budget process with our citizens budget committee and this same exact activity will go back to the citizens budget committee and we think it's important for that two-way
063communication that you just referenced of the citizens budget committee giving us feedback on these same concepts because if we get feedback here and then we get feedback there with the citizens budget committee and then let's say that an Emerson Carson project comes to fruition where where you know the expenses that add up to fixing Emerson and Carson are well beyond the expenses that it takes to just uh scrape and replace what it's called in the in the building world. We will definitely get the Emerson and Carson community involved in the process of what it looks like to build a new Emerson and Carson. Now, we we aren't saying that's where we're headed. We need feedback loops. So, we're getting feedback back loops from you guys. We're getting feedback loops from the citizen budget committee. And
064we definitely value uh the the the input and two-way communication like the Westwood model and that's what we'd exactly do in the Carson Emerson situation. So Mike will be around to help you build that understanding. Once again, your final rank these are not final rankings. This is us going through a project so we can kind of hear and listen. We're just listening and learning kind of what thoughts are. The comments you just made are us listening and learning to okay, we get that. We understand that. and it helps us frame what we're going to put in front of you in April for more decision-making processes and then May. >> Dr. Strong, so I just want to clarify, you're not enders gaming us here. We're not >> sitting behind our computer making the final decisions. >>
065Um, and I I was uh I the words at 8:30 in the morning, 9:00, I enjoyed hearing that this project was also going to be happening, this activity was going to be happening in parent council, right? so that parents have an opportunity to participate in that. Um because I do I do echo member Hutchinson's remarks that we need to make sure that we're involving our community and the our staff and our parents who are seeing this day in and day out. >> So I'm going continue a little bit through this so you guys get a feel for some of the items. Mr. Dr. Kmer, can you provide a little context what a backflow device is as a >> Yes, a backflow device is a required device that you put on a building to prevent the
066building's uh water that's already been uh placed in the system from the public utility from from back backflowing back into the public drinking water system. It's a one-way valve essentially and is required. >> Thank you. Can you also provide some context what a boiler is? Yes, boilers are basically commercial-grade water heaters. Uh you may use them in a cafeteria to keep the water hot for cooking purposes or you may use them on a central plant or a very large air conditioning system uh to heat the water that gets pushed to the building to keep the occupants uh comfortable during the winter time. >> Thank you. Uh when we look at building envelope, windows, repairs, this this item um and door hardware, this item you'll see across all of our campuses. Um this is an effort
067to rekey and um get a better handle on our uh core um users or like our master keys across the district. Uh so this is a safety security but also a building system project that you'll see across all of our uh schools. And so this is for me uh personally a high priority as it is common to have a master key a core across all your districts as it's for ease of access uh safety security um card access for exterior doors. This is a safety and security effort to kind of move to a technological um entry point um effort. So uh these provide uh basically logs when people enter and exit the building. It's a lot more um future focused and safer and sec and secure with regards to um people entering and exiting your
068campus. So >> Mr. Mark, can I ask a quick question about that the card case? So, um, is replacing the card, uh, if a teacher or staff member were to lose it is replacing because I know with a master key, you have to re key the whole thing. So, uh, expense-wise going to the card model versus a key because teachers lose their keys frequently. uh how what what would that look like as a cost feature because it's going to happen. >> Yeah. So the the cost to replace a badge or turn off a badge far cheaper than rec re rekeying or a whole campus. Um but if the school does not have the infrastructure in place for card access, right, there's electrical, there's um infrastructure that needs to be in place uh to put in
069that system. There's a cost to that, initial cost to that and that's oftentimes what hinders district from moving to that model is that initial cost to convert over to card access. >> However, it would provide by far a higher degree of security. >> Agree. >> And you would only have to replace a single badge versus recarding everybody. >> Correct. The first cost of electrifying and put the first cost of electrifying and putting the conduit into place to get electric to the doors is the prohibitive barrier in most school districts. Every school district would love I guarantee it to move to having every door on campus be hardcoded as opposed to keyed. Um, unfortunately the first costs are are pretty high with all the electric work that needs to happen and conduit work that needs to
070happen and that's you know districts can make efforts along the way through bond packages to do schools and you just have to slowly chip away at moving your system in that direction. It does have big security advantages. >> Mr. Kramer, can you explain a chiller? A chiller is the is basically the the heart of a um a type of mechanical system for heating and cooling for a commercial building or public institution. Um it's uh very expensive but they do last for decades if maintained through preventive maintenance. >> Yeah. So my personal ranking here high on impact but on urgency as Mr. Kmer just alluded to we often have trailers go well past their useful life. Those are assets. Again, while not recommended, there are assets that we can extend um past the useful life and
071we do have several across the district. >> Can you explain the condenser unit, Mr. K? >> Miss Benson, maybe >> a condensing unit is also a portion of a air conditioning unit. It removes the uh the heat um uh like during the cooling season. Um, typically you refer to this as like a split system where you'd have the um the air handling unit inside like let's use the home example inside the residence and the condensing unit on the outside. >> Yeah. And much like the package, you'll have multiple condenser units across the campus. The cooling tower, Mr. Kramer, you like >> a cooling tower is a waterbased system. I think we're hearing a lot of about these in the news about data centers using them, right? Um so uh through evaporation it lowers the um
072the temperature um which then impacts the water temperature of a thing called a hydronic piping basically pumping cool water through the building um which is then run through fan coil units or or equivalent um to help keep the the spaces cool. It's it's very important that that would also be considered like the heart of a uh that type of mechanical system. you know, um if that fails or if a chiller fails, um you're not going to have heating and cooling at that school until it's fixed. Very important. >> Much like the chilling tower, for me personally, this is a high impact, but oftentimes this asset can be extended past its useful life. For context, um I believe we had a question for this, but for the for the general board, uh can you explain a
073distribution panel? >> Distribution panels are part of a the electrical system. So these would typically be considered like the uh the midpoint. Um you have the service entrance section. That's where the the power comes in from the public utility. Then you have the distribution panels and then panel boards um which would be the smallest um basically breaker panels like you would see at home. So the these are larger midsize um electrical distribution or breaker panels. >> Yeah. And for me, ranking impact is kind of mid and then low urgency as these can often be repaired or replaced on an individual basis and it wouldn't affect the the large system as a whole. You want to keep going with fan coil? >> Yeah. A fan coil unit um is a type of air conditioning um unit
074that is typically suspended above the acoustic ceiling tile. There's piping, hydronic piping, where cool and hot water is pumped through it. And there's literally a fan that uh blows through like what is think of it like a radiator. So you have 45°ree water with a fan blowing over it and that's what produces the cool air coming out of the ceiling. >> Okay, we'll do one more and then we'll get the activity going. So a fire alarm system. Yeah, fire fire alarm system, also known as a fire detection system, consists of duct detectors, smoke detectors, heat detectors, and so forth. They're detection devices that will um set the system into alarm condition and dispatch the um fire department um if one of those devices are tripped. >> And then for me, as I ran that um
075across our district, those for those are high impact and oftent times they're not actually I'm going to change my ranking here. I'm g go three. Um because just explaining my ranking um oftentimes we can um fix um or have a solution uh to make those work and it wouldn't cause a drastic um immediate need for that individual item. So you kind of get the general consensus. Um I shared a folder uh with each of you and um once you guys complete the activity it will provide a summary for us and we can kind of reflect on your individual schools that you were assigned to with your cabinet member. Uh again this activity is not a final uh def uh not a final decision. We're intended to get some input and uh direction regarding some of
076the things that you find important within this activity. So >> starting with the elementary school. >> Yep. We will be starting with the elementary schools. >> Each each board member's got a member cabinet with them. If you have questions, you got Mike Kramer and we'll go through the schools together. >> Yeah. If nobody can access if you can't access your sheet, please let me know. than others, right? We have some older campuses that actually still have those um tanks. It's an underground tank where it was very popular in the 70s and 80s where you would super cool this body of water in in the evening, but it was cheap and then you wouldn't use your system during the day. you use that that body of water the thermal load actually those are not in invoked
077these days because they cause water treatment issues because it's open to the atmosphere you get oxygen inside your hydraulic pipe which causes corrosion. So that's an example but yeah we have campuses that they might have like skyline for example they have a chiller system with fan coils and air air handling units but they also have just regular package units right so um just And oftent times that's due to the floater. >> Oh, sure. >> Often times that's >> in our way. Justin >> um additions of buildings, right? >> For example, if you had a campus that had a 500 ton chiller and you're going to add a new building to it and that chiller is already packaging. So those are ideas that come up. >> Well, because I know just from an installation when it's
078process package units are by far less expensive install. >> Yeah. >> Uh however, if you have a split system, if one portion fails, you can replace that. Correct. >> If operations, we I I've always tried to look at the total cost of ownership over time. So if you can pay like say it's a 10% premium to go to a different type of mechanical system that's going to save you M dollars because it's actually more efficient long term. So we call the TCO total cost of ownership. That's always an analysis that I like to do on every single type of uh for the reasons I just stated. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> I'm going to Look at that. >> So, we're at >> Franklin Accelerated Academy Jordan campus and I put it by master type. >>
079So, the first one >> comes up. As far as impact and >> it's a smaller school. >> Oh yeah, I know that. But >> this is like your electrical panel, right? >> Like where you have to go out >> distribution. Distribution panels like the electrical panel. >> Yeah, the electrical >> at your house like where you have >> correct. Yeah. Yep. >> All right. So, do we we don't really know anything about the longevity, right? >> No. >> And I know that >> here's how you guys >> had compared to detail. So I put air conditioning in general. >> Yeah. Yeah. I would totally because >> you can't circle. We want to include >> well and this is going to have a condensing unit or the chiller >> because this is just this is the
080second piece of system >> not knowing it. I I will tell you like see >> these are this is what >> you know the 9500 is ridiculous >> we've never done operated things how the heck do I get this this is ridiculous hot water. >> Okay. >> So, I put three whatever. >> No, I think we don't know. >> If they were replacing, then it would be a low priority because it's got longevity. um >> really >> I actually I like >> I like the idea. So >> the urgency of it >> so >> I think Jordan will be a campus that if we can effectively market uh in the Kyne area that their traditional schools closing and start generating I mean that's remember So then >> otherwise the smallest >> so see to me
081that's the other is like >> where do we see a most declining enrollment and unless we can actively switch around urgency Because although we aspired >> if you don't know that that's going to work >> small and I didn't answer the question you know how would I >> I'm big on being objective >> and closing schools conversation is always >> No. Yeah. I I mean I I remember back in 2008 2009 when Jordan actually closed the neighborhood opened up. I think it was the following as it was our conclusion. Not well inclusion but our study in one location. So we do that one. >> Yeah. I was thinking two or three but three's good. >> Distribution panel. >> Okay. So >> if you on your home electrical you can just replace pieces of >> you
082don't have to replace the whole >> in your test. depends on the age >> and how many pieces have been I mean half these consistently been repaired already. >> It's like our white paper never repairs then you have Well, there is >> I would I would assume this is not emergency. So I would have a >> lower I'll do that one since >> foil CMS. So, >> grab some breakfast. >> Yeah, grab some breakfast now. >> But it oversees. It oversees it all. So we're at fan coil >> which is >> actually >> both same the >> I'm going to assume nothing's like it's >> two seconds from >> fire I think that's >> very concession stand. >> It's probably more than that. What do you think the urgency is on this thing? >> So
083I know it's going to be a high impact as well >> and if it's so it's a this bas monitoring system and looks for efficiency. that controls. >> So it's like your own home, you can have a processor. >> Yes, that's how I >> and I think it is set. So like if you set your thermostat in your classroom, you set it at 58. >> Get a fan. >> That's right. Um and it helps what what I understand this is new as well. It does look for efficiencies and making sure that you're using you know you're it's monitoring >> could pay for itself in years >> by saving >> I don't know what a motor control center is back around there >> take plumbing water. Okay. Tell me about plumbing. I don't know. >> That
084must be the sinks and >> water. >> And then the bathroom. >> I'm assuming we can ask Mike. We also have to go back to >> what do we got? >> We had a few questions. One was the building management system. Yep. That's the um system. It's also known as an energy management system. It controls your air conditioning unit. So you can schedule them and check just like your home thermostat, but we can do it remotely from a district. >> So what is how is it different from the HVAC and EMI >> EMS system? >> That's what I read the EMS system. >> That's the same system. We have Is this the same school? No. Okay. Duplicate entries. >> It looks like it's different prices. This is only 84 and this is >> Okay. That
085one was done by my staff and the one up top was done by our third party. That's why that that that's a modern price right there. >> Okay. So, we'll keep that as a five. >> Let me make a note of that. I'll I'll check all facilities for >> I put duplicate. Thank you. >> Yesterday. >> Yeah. built BAS building automation system and EMS is really the same thing. They're also known as digital direct control tools. It's so confusing. Just stick with one accurate. >> So we don't need this one. >> That's correct. I put >> Oh, that's hardware. Wait. >> No, no, no. We have that one. >> This one right here. >> Yes, that's a duplicate. >> Y. >> So we don't need this. >> I put duplicate in. Perfect. >> Okay. So
086now we have plenty of domestic water >> drinking water. That's right. Yeah. >> Fixtures are those >> fixtures. Yeah. >> Are those >> and these are >> toilets? Uh >> not toilets. That would be sanitary sewer. And you'll see that in there as well. >> Okay. >> So fixtures would be their own. Um you know, do you replace a fixture now or do you just >> That's the other. >> Yeah. >> You know kids. Yeah, that's right. >> And we we would focus on things that support >> 400,000. >> That's for the entire campus. >> That's too crazy. >> There's a couple small ones, so it must be a different building or something. >> Yeah. Exterior, >> correct? >> What's the motor control center? >> So, the motor control center is another component of an
087HVAC system. It's the electrical switching. Think of it like your uh >> It's a control panel. Yeah, it's control valve >> for the control board or >> and it's it's a fixed piece of equipment that's very very large >> like a TXV valve. >> It is not like a TXV valve. Now, these are this is a huge piece of equipment made out of steel with a bunch of switches. You you turn off the electrical servicing, let's say your chillers, your variable frequency drives, your cooling tower. They're they're huge mechanical switches that you >> So, you turn that part off so you don't >> like the most people think about it like like it's the electrical panel. It really is. But they call it a motor control center because it's for air conditioning. >> Yeah. It's
088the electrical service. >> It's a handle. It's the >> That's right. >> like a breaker. >> And those are >> Okay. >> See, one of the things we didn't talk about, so we have the EOL, the end block. That's this concept. You also have run to fail. Okay. RT like a motor control center. You can run that thing until it fails. when it fails, just please know that you probably have a 40we and you're going to have to get some sort of temporary solution in there, probably readily, which is going to be very expensive. So, and these are two different philosophies in operations, right? Do you proactively replace something that is 50 years old supposed to last 40 or do you just say, "All right, let's let's take a risk like Mr. Moore was saying,
089but then if it fails, you're paying four and five times as much." >> Just like a car. Well, we starting right now whatever we got nearly as >> absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yes. Especially when you're >> remember like 10 years ago we train changed the fans out from steel and plastic. >> Oh my gosh. Terrible. >> Terrible. >> Yeah. my husband and I do the background and stuff like >> when I used to answer phones when you don't want me because >> my brain is not mechanical brain >> right >> I'm never gonna you know >> I put five and three >> and then we have domestic water Okay. So, this I think is a high priority as well because you know that crazy lady that comes >> to board meeting like this would be
090right in the point and >> and we like we don't want kids >> as far fixtures. >> I would put And this is the other thing that frustrates me about construction. >> Like when we remodel our house, what kind of fet doesn't come with a faucet? >> How am I supposed to use my tub without a faucet? A door. It doesn't come with a handle. That is the dumbest system ever. How do you do >> it's an unbuttoned wear away? Unless it has a push plate, right? >> It's so dumb. >> Yeah, >> it's dumb. It's a stupid system. >> What about the >> without really knowing? Yes, I would say. >> Which one do you want? >> Unless What does the pump go to? >> Yeah, so the pump entries as asset types in
091there. Those are all for central plants. Um, air conditioning. Uh, basically it helps pump the well, it pumps the chilled water through the entire facility. Yeah. Very important. If you lose the pump, you lose your air conditioning for the multiple uh areas served by that pump. Asphalt roof and shingles. >> Oh, the next two next are roofs. >> I think it's the number one school facility board awards. >> Um like a a layer system, multiple layers. Uh foam's separate. I think we have 10 or 12 different roofing types that that are in here. So, it's um very specific. There just different types of of roofing systems that again that have been invoked throughout the years. Yeah. >> Um total cost of ownership like the foam roof. >> There's about them every five to seven years.
092>> A good amount of time or should we >> can use the three minutes. Do we want to scroll down to like >> we want to start with our technology and all that? >> No, there's some wildet communications retrofit. Okay, that's going to be within a an MF closet. You have to put radius plywood on >> and then mount your equipment to it. So, it's probably a part of that lighting. U I'd have to ask David Sanders, but yeah. Well, it's it's part of your information systems infrastructure. Yeah. So it can be mounted. That's how I would interpret that. >> You wouldn't be able to >> maybe That's going to be this is going to be their multi. >> It's going to be a multi-purpose room. It's not it's not like a high school emergency
093one. >> Yeah. >> Water heater. >> Okay. I think here >> deal with your >> half million dollar shrink. desk available. >> Okay, water heater is important >> system. Unless it's >> hard access into exterior doors. >> Although is that a >> Okay. So, you have to have >> Yes, they do. >> My friend has um That's important. >> And it's like when I was over >> time listening in. All right. >> Is everybody able to complete the sheet? >> Of course not. >> Yeah, I think we also didn't complete but I think we have enough we have some general themes that came up >> um as we reflect on the elementary I think we're going to take a break after this but we want to do a quick reflection right yeah okay on uh
094this activity so I think me and Marcy can start with a quick reflection so for context we had OKConor Elementary And uh with OKConor, we have uh a relatively new lease agreement there with Bezos, which was at the top of our minds. Um do you want to speak to enrollment and some of the questions you have? >> Yeah, we um I mean we have a lease agreement, so we've got to we've got to maintain this building. I mean, we have we have a we have a tenant. So, that that's one of the factors that that um uh came into our decision-m. However, um, one of the things I think that we need and if we ask community members to do this as well is to have like a glossery of terms so that and and
095we might even we might I mean for the board members right now we could put it in our library um of board docs, but I think if we if we do have discussions in the community and we have a we have a web page on on capital needs um that we have a glossery because um um that was one of my problems in in ranking things. Um I I taught history um I I don't know a thing about a fan coil until Mr. Kramer explained it. So um it that it's important that we have a definition of terms, but also um I I turned to Mr. more and I said, uh, how many kids go to this school? What's the projected enrollment? Um, because are we going to be investing in a school that is
096going that we are going to be talking about in a couple three, four, five, even five years. Um, so, uh, that was that's a major aspect. And then I think a third aspect of our decision making, we have amazing skilled technicians who have been working for the district for decades. And I know one of the first things that I did as a board member was to go through the the kitchen repair area and and in talking with the HVAC guys and and the miracle workers, the way that they can extend the life. We we in Mesa public schools don't get new. We repair and repair and they still hum like Cadillacs, you know. So, we've got very talented people and that has to factor into our decisions as well. Um, as a result of of
097discussing all these things, we we we didn't even get through half >> um of our of our rankings. So, um, uh, yeah, and I've got I've got I've got the business guy next to me here. So, um, I I guess that's that's my input. >> Yeah. The the only other note, Okconor still has portables. And so when we were talking about you know the impact and urgency on the portables one thing we we we uh massage rank that low because of the fact of the enrollment small um and the flexibility that we have across campuses to potentially um move those students into brick and mortar. And so that was one point of just unique to Okconor um as we looked at HVAC on the portables and whether we want to invest in those. So do
098we want to go around to Miss Benson? >> Not yet. Hold on. I gota look up see what this is. We have >> member Walden. >> Yeah, we can go around this or >> go ahead. >> So uh we didn't actually get a chance to talk about the portables. Um but that I echo what Mrs. Hutchinson said that do we really want to Are we going to replace things into facilities that will be retired that may be retired soon? And then I think how long do you project a campus to to be there will change things too. And Dr. Stum and I didn't get to that part of the conversation yet, but it's definitely important to think about. So when I looked at prioritizing things, I looked at what can save us M now or
099stop having I mentioned at the beginning larger repairs down into the futures or something that if we neglect it's going to snowball down the road. And so that kind of was the basis for how I wanted to prioritize things. So looking at the the plumbing, the electrical uh and and the HVAC because HVAC can lower your utility costs which are really high for a district and then of course the plumbing and electrical that can snowball and cause problems down the road and then prioritizing the safety and security of the campus. the lower priority items were the things that impacted the least amount of students. Like we're talking about uh what's what can help the entire campus versus what helps the least amount of students. And so and I was in theater and my siblings all
100did theater, but I going to disclose that because I do feel like that some of the things that impact your specials or electives are are going to be the lowest priority unless there's a safety issue. That's different. Uh, so when we look at this, we have to think about our our liabilities. Like if there's a stage floor that needs to be repaired because someone's gonna trip and break a bone, that's different than just an aesthetic or modernizing equipment. And that's the same thing with like the playground equipment is are we looking at changing it for for aesthetic reasons or because it just doesn't look like a modern playground. We want more color to engage students. I think kids going outside are going to find something something to do. So, if there's no safety issue uh
101with the playground, that would be down at like my my four and five. Um my my lower priority items and then uh sort of sort of in the middle would be uh other like the furniture refresh, the it we did sort of rank like as a two. So, I had like my one and then my two is the IT and it was I was got to talk to Mr. Kramer about this, but you're looking at things that impact curriculum and instruction and especially with the AI headed uh in the direction that it it's going. Uh there are it changes that need to to be done to keep up with that. And so that was where was just below like number two just below those those very top priority items that that are safety and cost
102savings. I I it is not going to save us money, but because we're prioritized or the board's prioritized and we prioritized the student outcomes and academic achievement going into things that impact curriculum instruction are going to be a higher priority. Did I cover it all? All right. And I did adjust all the portables down to ones and ones because the idea I'm hearing out of this is the more we can limit portables and get back to brick and mortar space, the better off the district's going to be. >> And then oh, on roofing, we didn't um roofing because we've seen a lot of roof repairs that come from the state facilities board. That is a less of an urgent issue because that is a place where I think we can go and try to find
103outside funding that then we're not looking at having to fund that. So, like it's it's important, but it's also something that if we can apply for for the facilities board, we can put that piece on on the back burner. Member Wall, you brought up a good point. Um, all of these, whether we call for an election or not, we would continue to strive to receive building renewal grant programs, especially with roofing, which we've had success. Um it's just the if this is our master capital plan and so whether we have funds or not like this is what needs to be replaced on that campus eventually. But yeah, anything that's eligible for the building renewal grant program or anything for grants, we would still continue to strive to continue to leverage those funds. And then if
104we were to pass something and receive a grant, then we can repurpose those dollars back into um the pot and potentially pick up additional items that uh we may have had lower rank. So, >> and and that's the same thing like with specials we talked about, you know, with sports or with with theaters, there's the opportunity to get donations from the community where there's organizations that are happy to sponsor things or put their name on something where we can No one's going to sponsor plumbing fixtures and and like electrical systems, you know, but the really showy stuff, the stuff that engages the community, there's there's dollars that uh we can get from donations for those things, do. So, they're like less is a like if I've got a pot of money and I'm how do
105I spend this money? Those those specials, you said it's another reason why they're going to be be down at the ball bottom because it's possible I can get I can get donations for those things. Okay. I we kind of echo them a little bit as far as if it's safety like playground equipment, is it going to cause harm and we need to fix it or is it just to change to make it prettier? Um kind of based on that. Um that was a lot of how we based if if it was a safety concern, more of a concern. also looking through the future. Is this something depending on what happens with certain campuses, something we can move to another campus and use there so it's not tied up in just that building like one of
106the examples was the audio enhancements, those that have been in those classrooms with audio enhancements and see the learning and help it can help provide um and then could you transfer that to another location. So, I think looking at overall as far as importance, but then if you're narrowing down, it might be different campus to campus because of what the future might look like. Um, I think safety was one of our biggest things. Um, and also making sure that there's AC and plumbing. But again, looking at if this is 5 10 years down the road, where are we looking as far as in at certain campuses? Yeah, I think we're seeing some themes emerge. Um, most of ours was put into building systems and and renovations given our depth of knowledge in construction management. um
107we made our best guess, but focusing on creating those safe learning environments while acknowledging we're going to have to have a strategic plan throughout the district with declining enrollment and dem and demographics. Uh what that looks like campus to campus and and we also talked about the fact that decisions at one campus potentially impact where money can be spent on another campus. And I think this is where the regional learning communities are really going to come into play because we're going to have an idea of what's happening within that community and what shifts need to happen. Um we talked about the the opportunity that furniture refresh can can be moved to another campus and also prioritizing what would be nice to have versus what it what do we need to have. Um, I know that
108that refreshing a staff lounge makes a big impact in the people that work there every day, but I do think it's one of those things that we can partner with community organizations and make happen. And so, um, as a district, we probably need to make sure that our toilets flush and that the fixtures are not falling apart in those buildings. Um, and maybe partner with outside organizations to make some of the more glamorous, pretty projects happen. Um, anything else that I missed? I think that covered it. We I learned that I know very little about a lot of things. Um, and I I do think there's an opportunity to invest in in laptops and refresh the laptops and know that they could be moved to another campus and used another site. Same things with our
109our televisions, but also knowing that education costs have gone up because of the amount of technology that we use. You used to be able to purchase textbooks and have them for a long time. And I think that's something that we have to remember as we talk about the cost of education that this technology is expensive. And I think that's something that people who went to school 20 and 40 years ago don't realize has significantly changed. And that that also requires an infrastructure like an MDF closet that's fire safe, you know, to hold all of that it on campuses. So Mr. wing and I um tried to work through and one of the one of the uh hindrances to decision-m is um the age of the asset at the time. So not knowing that um so
110for example HVAC if it was replaced during ESSER maybe I don't then it's going to be a one in urgency and it's probably going to be low on impact. We did focus on building systems as well. Um, and member Walden, I like the fact that you pointed out that we can use the um, whatever that fund is, but I do, yeah, the roofing to me was important because um, and I I we do have it as a five. Uh, we have a majority of the HVACs as high priority and needs, but again, our urgency, I don't know because we uh, we don't know how old they are. But roofing problems not only ruin materials uh but it also potentially is a health concern because that's how you get mold to grow in your buildings. Um
111and mold uh mold infection uh exposure can be really really harmful to people. So we have to uh focus on that. The other thing that is fascinating is the amount of HVAC components that are separated out. Right? So, I looked up that terminal unit VAV. I don't know if you guys have it on your campus, but that's also an HVAC thing. So, there's lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of HVAC, uh, pieces that again, if we properly maintain them, we expand their life expectancy. So, uh, we also prioritized the carding of the doors because again, our community has consistently said that student achievement and student safety are their two highest priorities. So, the key card really enhances uh student and staff safety because you're not going to be able to come in
112without it, right? So, and I love the idea that you can just replace one card rather than having to re key the whole entire thing. Uh I have less of an interest in the interactive uh displays because those were just replaced uh within a couple of years with Esser money. Uh, in fact, we bought TVs and then we bought this. It's essentially a huge laptop, which I personally loved because you could, but we literally just bought them like two years ago. Uh, and I do think I uh ditto owe you, Mrs. Chaffy, in the unfortunately education has moved to relying on uh technology a lot. um because of that you have to invest in your technology and it really only has a lifespan of 5 to seven years and then it becomes problematic. So that
113is important for our community to know that is one of the reasons that stuff is more expensive uh there and you also have to maintain your data drops and all of that kind of stuff with it because you don't have those you can't use your laptops. So all of it is connected. Uh and I just want to close with Thomas Soul says there are no solutions there are trade-offs. So I think every solution that you like if you choose this to prioritize it is at the expense of another. Um so I I think that's important for us to uh focus and keep in mind as well. >> So can I ask a follow-up question on funding? Wasn't there a proposition or something that Arizona passed where they added a syntax and that tax went to
114education? I think it was the early 2000s. >> The tobacco tax. Yeah. But I think it was a proposition or something that went to the ballot. >> But I had a teacher tell me that like they used that tax and that's what like paid for all the it in their classroom. >> Yeah. That's IAF fund 020 in public education. Uh and it it it is and was has been based on tobacco primarily. Uh the IIAF fund generally by school districts gets used to lower class size. >> Do do what's that? >> Alternative and dropout. >> Yeah. Alternative and dropout education programming. Um statutoily there are elements to IIF that you can spend the money on. Um, I will tell you the funding source and even uh First Things First is in the same position. First
115Things First for Early Education is funded off a tobacco tax. And right now they're trying to uh uh pass bills that take that into the modern era. What that means is they're trying to pass bills to take it into a vaping tax as opposed to a tobacco tax because what's happening with tobacco is the uh tax fund is just going down down down. And so that's what we're struggling with in the IIAF fund is we just don't have the funds they once had in in our school district. We happen to use the IF fund to buy more teachers and reduce class size to a larger degree. So that's one of the ways we keep class size down. >> What did you say the code was? 02 >> 020 is the fund number. Okay. >> Sorry.
116>> Instructional improvement fund. Okay, with that I think we planned a break before we jump into junior high. So >> five minute what >> 10 minute what happened? All right. I believe we will continue. So now that you have a feel for the form and kind of the activity a little bit, um we should be able to be a little more efficient on the junior highs. Uh so again, same uh activity. Um if you go into that folder, you should find your assigned junior high. Again, we're going to be rank ranking them by impact and urgency. Uh Mr. K will be floating around and unless there's any further questions. Again, right now these are I just want to emphasize these are a list of all our needs assuming um we continue our trend that every
117campus stays open. We invest in all of our schools based on the current needs um from our third party assessor, our internal assessments uh and our area experts with regards to AV infrastructure and athletics. So are there any questions? So we can get take 10 minutes to go through your junior high. >> Okay. 15 15 All right. >> Do we want to start with Miss Benson? Do you want to reflect on your junior high? >> Do you want to share your school, too? Um, for >> We have roads. >> Okay. So, one of the questions that we had was um we made the assumption that all of our assessment needs uh took into account we were only looking at the portion that maintain with was with us versus Polaris. Um so we did make that
118assumption but we um looked we really approached it pretty much the same as um our elementary school which was Jordan. Our fives uh were the building maintenance and maintaining um HVAC, HVAC, plumbing, all of that. We have to again if we're as education is increasingly relying on technology, you have to maintain that. You have to have your data drops or you can't use your laptops. So, uh all of I mean it's kind of it's and I assume it's going to be the same. Now, the one thing that we did comment on, and this is not necessarily my priority, but the junior high and senior high level, the arts and the athletics are going to be by far more important than they are at the elementary level. So, what Mr. Sharing and I were discussing was
119this I see one of the benefits to our learning community uh our learning community model as we step into that next year looking at our capital needs and uh as uh member Hutchinson said earlier kind of surveying the the community what is important to you like maybe if one feed or pattern no we are really really into athletics and so therefore we want you to invest more in the athletic piece other than classroom um or student achievement could be arts. We kind of just took the same basic approach and with our they are going to have separate auditoriums that uh elementarymentaries don't. Um maybe maybe we need if if it's a safety issue maybe we need to replace them. I don't maybe we don't. Uh it would just kind of depend. And then we had
120a question about something. What was it? Um, >> oh, for the security, um, refurbishing the, uh, front area, we assumed that, you know, if it's if it's already been updated and there's safety features in there, then no, that's not going to be a top priority. But if it has not been, again, our community said student achievement, student safety, >> we have something >> wireless antennas. >> Oh, yeah. What are the wireless antennas for? it. >> Those are access points. There's one on the ceiling right there. That white box that's a >> Okay. So, it's connected to our technology. >> Wireless access points and such. >> Or remember if you ever have like areas of a campus where there's low Yeah. dead zones, low connectivity, right? Those those are what help us. Yes. I had a
121campus that I when I would go on there, I could never use my phone in the in the library. >> I could be 10 feet away from the library and it would work, but if I was in the library, it was like, oh, that's interesting. So, that's kind of how we approached that's probably how we'll approach high school as well. >> That that's a cellular service provider problem. I've dealt with that in many places before. And you can buy amplifiers that you put up on your building to amplify the cellular signals throughout the building. But once again, to buy an amplifier to solve that problem, that ends up costing dollars. And with our new cell phone policy for kids, they really probably shouldn't be on their cell phone during the day. So, I don't think
122we need to amplify the cell phone signal. >> Um, we ended up in a very similar spot. We have Taylor Junior High where we focused on building systems. Um, and then safety and security and technology. A little less on safety and security because there seem to be less needs in Taylor as opposed to the campus we looked at before. Um, one thing that I think has come to my mind as we've looked at this is a lot of our campuses have strong air conditioning needs and as we just approved a calendar that has us starting the end of July. I think that would be something that would be great to receive an update on as a board is like are we going to be able to handle opening our schools at the end of July
123and what is that going to do to our HVAC systems? Um, I know that that's a concern of of mine and has come from the community. So, as we just continue to see the amount that needs to be put into our HVAC systems, I'd love to continue that as a conversation. We're still working on our 300 plus line items. Um um I think echoing all the same all just safety security what what's going to be the biggest benefit to these kids. I to me I we oh sorry we have Carson you know we have a lot of issues as far as even like ADA accessibility for this campus that to me is an important to make sure that we can um service all of our students and our community as they come to our different
124functions. And so, you know, making sure we do have bathrooms and that they can access our auditorium in those different um areas on campus. But I, you know, what's important is making sure that we have AC. To me, AC and our plumbing are big things, especially on this campus, and roofs that don't leak so that our we're not um our what's inside of our buildings aren't being ruined consistently when we have big storms. So, that's what we have. So, a a lot of it was the the same as the first one. Um, I'll mention because we didn't talk about this before is the is the flooring where uh we did kind of move and rethink flooring as one of the lowest priorities because a lot of the flooring is aesthetic and and modernization for like
125that contemporary look versus is there a safety issue with flooring? No, it's in most of these cases it's not. It's just it's going to look nicer. But I think that when I said before that uh parents are really going to look at outcomes of the campus more than they're going to look at flooring. So that one is still a a low priority for for us for me. Anyway, I don't know. Dr. Sh, I think you agreed with me. >> One thing I'd like to just say is, you know, Carson to our left has over 300 line items. Smith has 238 line items. And that's just an example of, you know, the building's older. And as you defer maintenance, you know, it's a cost multiplier and it's also going to be a line. It's going to
126be a line item multiplier. It's going to multiply the lines. And so I just want to make sure that's heard. And the other thing that really resonated with me uh was member Walden kept emphasizing Smith is secure. I want everyone to hear that we have the buzzer at the front door that people can get into, but their lobby is not secured. They get secured outside basically as opposed to secured inside and getting to a standard secure front lobby throughout the whole entire district is pretty high on the list of needs. If we're going to go out for capital bond, finishing off all the schools that don't have that is pretty important is what I heard. >> Yeah. And for me it was the it's the liability of it where I think if some like the
127chances of there's something happening at the school like statistically it is really low when you look at how many schools there are and how many let's say infiltrations there's been of the campuses that ended up in in shootings. But it's if something like that happens it's the most devastating thing that could ever happen. And and if you are at a school that maybe doesn't have the modernization that another school has, then I think there's a huge liability for the district where we could really face some serious litigation because where's the justification for letting some schools have more safety than others? And that was kind of my my thinking as we talked more about this that um I think we've got a big liability issue if we don't have all of our campuses uniform for for
128safety. And then also, and I I appreciate what you said about like the cost down the road because the value of the dollar is dropping. It dropped 10% last year, and it's continuing to drop, and that means our money's worth less. And so prices are going to continue to go up. And that's what makes this so hard, too, is that we're in a catch-up game of supply and a catch-up game of trying to buy things before the costs continue to go up. >> Yes, we should have invested in gold. is the one taking off right now. >> I have both. Um >> what >> to piggyback off member Walden if I may. The other issue, you know, if you look at Maslo's hierarchy of needs, the basic needs and safety are important. So it's not
129only important for our community, but our students are increasingly in a world that it may not actually be more dangerous than when we were kids. However, the perception of the world being more dangerous than it was when we were children is a reality. So, when we have a campuses that the kids look and go, "Oh, okay. This is locked. No one's coming in." I think that's important again for student learning. You can't learn if you're on high anxiety all the time. So, that's it. Well, Dr. Stram stole my thunder. So, um, that's all right. I'm I'm I'm good with that because I want to accentuate that we've got Fremont Junior High and we don't have a secure front lobby there either. So, um, that's a very high priority. Um, it it has to be. Um,
130so I won't reiterate what has already been said, but we also have um Fremont, even though it's on the east side, is a is an older campus. It's been around for, I think, at least since the 70s. Um, and uh, and it's u, as Mr. Kramer explained, it's a it's a unique campus in that it has three central plants and they're on their last legs. And so, um, it's going to be very expensive to keep, um, Fremont cool, but it is a high, uh, we have a high sense of urgency, and it's obviously, um, as I mentioned, if they if the air isn't cool, the learning doesn't happen. So, um, we've got to we've got to invest in Fremont. It is one of our more populated schools. Um and um so we've got and it's
131very expensive what's what we've got to do at Fremont. Um when I when we take when we take a look at then distribution panels and things we we um um ranked them lower um however we we discovered I I discovered through I shouldn't use we because you know this stuff better than I do. um that we have fire panels and systems that need to be um modernized and um and those that that can't be negotiable. That's got to that's got to happen. Um much like the the safety of our um of our front office and that gains access to the rest of the campus. Um we also have a lot of plumbing issues at at Fremont. Um many fixtures that need to be replaced. That's just good sense as far as um making sure that
132bathrooms work so that kids don't learn lose learning time having to go to a different bathroom and all of that kind of same for staff. Um um we have we have roofs many roofs that need to be replaced. Um and if I say two words everybody will know what I'm talking about. Sah Harris Elementary. We need to have make sure that roofs are are done. And um and then I skipped I didn't consult with my partner here, but um it looks like the auditorium needs some work at um Fremont Junior High. And um uh uh seats and curtains and and and rigging and the audiovisisual system. I I maybe rank them higher than most of my colleagues would have, but um the performing arts, music um brings communities together. And um also I'm thinking that
133because we have like the cafeterium at most of our elementary schools. A lot of our elementary schools use the junior high auditoriums to stage their their big productions and their big concerts because their cafeteriums can't hold them. and and frankly it's not it's not conducive to um um the the the quality of music that our kids are producing. So um I rank that um u number fours as far as as ranking impact because I really do believe that the arts are some of the reasons why kids come to school, but it's also what brings community together. Um, and I think it gives us great value as as a district because people choose Mesa public schools and keep in kids their kids in Mesa public schools because of our performing arts and our music programs. So,
134I think long-term investment, it's a good investment as well. >> All right. Thank you for that. The last round would be our high schools. I think you guys are experts now. Uh but this round I really want you to focus on the items that you haven't seen before. Our high schools, you're going to see a a long list and so um there'll be several new items that you'll see on this including athletics. Um and so really emphasize those as you're going through this activity on this round. And then after this we'll reflect and then Mr. wing has a kind of closing activity to uh finish us off with this capital conversation today. So we give us 10 minutes 15. All right. >> Who wants to start? Member Walden. Um let's see >> reflect on your
135high school activity. >> Um so some of the things that were were different here. Um going back to flooring again that I mentioned last time we did kind of get into a discussion because there is really a big difference though between the type of flooring like carpet versus tile. So when I think of Westwood, I think of tile. But I I had mentioned that I did rank flooring lower, but there are situations with carpet where flooring would have to take more of our priority, especially in that one in aesthetics, it can create a really just gross feeling. We have bad ripped up carpet or carpet with stains. Um you know, but uh cleanliness and allergen issues. So depending on the type of floor and I think you're going to does depend on the urgency. Um
136we talked a bit about uh CTE and one of the conversations we were having is uh something like welding for example like we have electives that serve a a small minority of students but they're also very expensive type of electives and we are look debating getting exposure versus actually going to something like EVIT to do it like where we offer things that can be a little bit they're not duplicative but in the same line if you are interested in welding, maybe it is better to to go to EBIT for something like that. When we have a something that's such a small program, but it's such a a major expense. And as we get deeper and deeper into into cuts as the years go on, those are things that might have to be cut. I think
137trying to increase our satellite campuses where we can offer something like welding but then we have a shared shared responsibility with like an EVID or EVID's providing the funding for that. I think those would be better opportunities where maybe we're not in the district of offering or not in the business of offering that but it's still on our campus and I did hear last night they even approved our satellite campus at Red Mountain for for nursing. Um, so those are really cool opportunities I think that we can look at as as time goes on and we maintain that relationship. So maybe there's certain CTE things we're not going to offer as a course, but obviously the course is still and that that subject is still available to to students. The this one sports I mean
138sports is is big in high school. I I I get it. the turf and track renovations are tough because they're it's it's almost like the the playground equipment where it's like it's not really as far as like academic student outcomes is not a priority, but a lot of families go to high school for the sports. Um so that one I think was kind of did I do that middle or or lower? I think I did three to two. >> Yeah. Um, and we were talking about like this was news to me that the turf's only about good for 15 years. I thought that some of these remodels would have a longer life expectancy. So that does make it challenging when you're looking at 15 year refreshes. And then the rest of the categories were about
139the same when you're looking at your plumbing, electrical, and HVACs. We did talk about too how, you know, across our elementary, junior high, and high school, like I mean 90% of this are the same things and it seems like it's a lot of of small things that adds up to a lot of big dollars. But I I know our leadership team like you all you all inherited a lot of messes and I think this is another one that you inherited where because these things are small or they're not as as flashy as like taking a bond and here's our new performing arts center, here's, you know, here's our new football field and it's really flashy. These other pieces are equally important and in many cases more important because they can lower your M and stop
140issues down the road. But they were neglected for a very very long time which is is challenging because I feel like we really shouldn't be here uh if things were done correctly every time to have this this many capex needs for so many different issues across the schools. But it's obvious from this activity what things got ignored and and neglected and now everyone's here trying to to play catchup. Okay, we had Red Mountain. Um I just noticed on our summary our technology went way up on this one and I think we have to remember high school might have some different needs there. So I did notice that it's still safety is one of our um number is our highest one but then technology and I think a lot of that is going into our high
141school knowing the needs of our high school students. Um, one thing we thought about as like with the auditorium and even like the football field, those are also big um, lease, those can be leasing options for us and people rent those uh, rent those facilities. And so I think um, having being competitive, especially with as new buildings go up around some of these schools that we can um, um, compete with them so that our facilities are being used. I you know on many times you'll see um outside groups coming in to use our auditoriums and in our fields and so um another thing to look at as we had some we need more um information because we had removing portables and building a permanent building and so looking down the road is building a permanent
142building the best use of funds um as we look at declining enrollment. And so some of ours we had questions as we need additional information. Um but I think the big takeaway on this one was our high schools the increase in uh technology use and and I think that is necessary with our with our high schools. >> I I want to piggy back off that because we did uh mention that that obviously like your one to one tech ratio is going to be a higher need at at your high school than the elementary level. I agree with that. Yeah. Um, we had Mountain View, which was interesting to see having been like a student there and then also being a parent there when they went through the the remodel process throughout the bond. One question
143I had is when we did bond renovations in the past, did we have this type of line item breakdown of the needs? No. No one was here. >> Was not employed here. Here's play the fifth. Here's what I member Chvy here. Here here here's what I do know. I know that MGT came in and did a report that I've reviewed several times. It's about 300 pages long. That line item out everything that the district needed to do to help their FCI score out. That's a facilities index score uh for their facilities. I I also know that the general idea of the needs in that MGT report framed what we're going out for for bond. I think what we're trying to do this time, and it's not, you know, I always want to uh respect and
144understand that all past leaders are trying to do the best they possibly can at the given point in time that they're there to make the best decisions they possibly can given the situations they're presented with. So, uh you know, positive presupposition is what we call that. And I'm I'm trying to uh remain positive with that. But what we're trying to do this time is I think part of this activity and part of the reason we want to do this with parent council and part of the reason we want to do this with the community budget meeting is we want people to know we have experts that have this dialed down line item by line item. Then we want to use these groups to understand big themes. We hear security over and over again this morning.
145Over and over again this morning. And then we want to publish out a bond plan that is line item by line item. Uh there's difficulty in that because if you publish out a bond plan line item by line item and all of a sudden inflation hits at 40%. I'm making this up, but all of a sudden inflation hits at 40%. We may publish out a line item by line item bond plan and guess what? We might only be able to do 30% of the work in that bond plan because inflation hit at a certain rate. But I I don't know if this community will support another bond without knowing line item by line item what's in the bond. And so we're trying to listen based on past experience, the 2023 experience, get feedback and then
146put together a plan where people can go in and go, okay, at this school they're going to do these projects. At this school they're going to do these projects. And that's part of what this meeting feedback is because we have a dashboard already built on the back side. We just haven't populated it yet because we're trying to get feedback from the community on at these places. Here's the types of projects that are going to get. So I I don't want to say a line bottom plan wasn't ever happening in Mesa public schools. I'm sure it was here. I have confidence it was, but I think we're trying to use it and utilize it in a different fashion to be more transparent with the public in here's the things that this bond's going to accomplish. And
147there is risk. I need the board to realize to publish this and go out and then if the bond passes in November, they're still risking it from November of 26 when it passes to if and when the bond remember if a bond passes the board's still got to consider whether they're going to want to sell the bonds, right? That's the next step. Do you want to sell it passes? You have the authority. Then, oh, do you want to sell the bonds, right? How much of the bond do you want to sell? You could go out and you could sell $40 million of the bond in the in in the first track because of tax rates. You can say we don't want to do much to tax rates. Well, $40 million isn't going to get much
148done. Well, then you know there's risk in people thinking, "Oh, this will get done because there's a line item plan. This will get done >> the second the bond passes." That's not how it's going to play out. Because if we sold all $450 million worth of bond right away, tax rates would go through the roof, that would then result in the community questioning every one of us, including myself, and they would have the right to question every one of us. So, the risk is timing of when things get done. the risk is inflation hits and we only can get half the projects done. But I think it's we're at a point where the gambled and calculated risk to put out a line on plan's worth it and then we'll if something like that happens where
149we only get certain projects done in a given year, we'll just have to go out and communicate and overexlain to the community this is why these are the only projects getting done right now. Oh, but you told us this was going to get done. Well, you know, inflation hit and we can't do that. we'll have to on the back side uh just be really communic communicative on why we're at where we're at at the given point in time. So that was really expansive answer and that's uh the way we're thinking right now through this process. And if you if the board's got direction for us, no, we don't want a line item by line item plan. Then you know we have a couple we're going to come back to you guys in March, right, with
150another study session and give us feedback over the next couple months. That's what this study session and board retreat is all about is just continuing to get feedback. Yeah, that's really helpful and I do appreciate the transparency. I I appreciate that we're not making decisions in like silos, but that we're being collaborative in it and that we're also going to take this outside the board and talk to to parents and community members because I do think that that is when we make our best decisions and we hear kind of that conflict and and where there are um trade-offs that that have to be made. I was also surprised to hear about the artificial turf as it hurt my art heart a little bit to know that we haven't made upgrades to our theater spaces for
151so long. Um because I do think that those updates in our theater spaces last a long time and benefit a lot of students across a range of of performing arts. Um, it is always shocking to me to just know how much needs to be done in our buildings. And I I'm hearing a lot about like the safety and security of students. Also, one thing that I don't think I've really heard articulated is at the beginning as board members, we emphasized that we really wanted strong academic outcomes for students. And I would love to hear articulated in this plan how we're supporting that. I was telling Monica that one of the things in our high school classrooms that happens sometimes is by the time you get the seats and the charge cords. You can see how
152much of us are having to charge our computers just to be here for six hours, by the time they plug in their computers and add their backpacks and their high school bodies. It impacts their academic outcomes and their safety. And so that as we look at these classroom spaces, our technology, that we need to be mindful about how these are actually used in the classrooms, how that affects teachers ability to work and move in this space and be interactive. Um, and so I think really engaging our staff in these conversations will help us make strategic plans that improve their academic outcomes. um we had Dobson and uh it um didn't seem to have as many specific areas. Uh I do appreciate um high school to me is where we need to expand um and maybe
153invest in not maybe but invest in opportunities that are not 100% academic. It's not just reading and writing because uh as Mr. Holland said in his opus, what's the point of education if we don't have art and that kind of thing. So, I personally prioritize the auditorium higher than any of the athletic stuff, but that's also my personal bias. Uh that that's just my personal bias. If the community found it to be a higher priority, then that's fine. Um, I do know that, uh, as I was campaigning, one of the big responses that I heard from a lot of our taxpayers was, why did they spend all that money on the football field when Okay, so I think we also have to I I love the idea that we're getting as much feedback from different
154people as possible because I do think that's when we make the best decisions, but we do have to high school is no longer just fundamentals. It is where our students begin to try kind of figure out what is my talent, what is my skill set, what do I want to do? And we do want to honor as many opportunities as we can and still be fiscally responsible. So that's kind of how we approached it. Again, that yeah, the technology is by far more important because it is a direct onetoone. Um, and I don't I think I think we approached the flooring and everything else as a well, is it a safety issue like in the kitchen? I don't know. Our tiles coming up, then yes, we need to that that needs to be taken care
155of. So, uh, I don't think I have anything to add to you. Thank you. Okay. Okay, we had Mesa High and having been on the board when Mesa High got renovated, you think that when you spend $50 million, everything's fixed. It's not. Um, we have a uh, and I know this because I've had teachers call me when, um, air conditioning didn't work in the 800 building um, and in the main building. Um, we've got a we've got a critical situation with HVAC at Mesa High. And so um we've prioritized that um highly for impact as well as urgency. Um as well um I'd like to um kind of maybe even summarize what everybody has said. I think when we talk about a high school, you have the three A's. You've got the arts, athletics, and
156academics. And um if we are because we are going to uh regional learning communities where the high school is um the center um the nucleus of the learning community. Um I I believe that um improvements to the auditorium is absolutely essential. It is a community gathering space. It is where the creative arts um are experienced by the community. But it's also where our kids shine. It gives them an opportunity to um fulfill many of the aspects of our portrait of a graduate. Um where they collaborate. They're they're creative. They're um they're they're working to engage in problem solving and and frankly it's it's it feeds the soul of not only the community but the kids. And um when when we go to those performances and and members that just not parents but members of our
157community see what kids can do, um it's one of the times that we can actually show learning what kids know and what they can do in in a in a very interactive um community way. So um I prioritize that um quite a bit. Um we we have um a problem in that the like like the um certified staff laptops have reached their usefulness and we just recently um authorized the purchase for certified laptops for our teachers. Um the student laptops particularly at high school level have to be they've got to be the cutting edge because particularly as we're going towards um career pathways and academic um um endeavors in careers that kids are exploring um um CTE programs expanding um but giving kids opportunities. The laptop for a high school kid is that key to
158opportunity I believe. So, um I we we rank that pretty high as well. Um and security if if we we've got to make sure every every building's secure. So, I think that was where we're at. >> All right. Well, thank thank you for that feedback. I think I my mind's spinning on how I can leverage the feedback that you guys provided um to better enhance uh some of these activities as we bring them to other groups um and make those uh and continue to collect data and information as we move through this capital planning phase. So with that, I'm gonna hand it over to Mr. Wing. just gonna take you through a quick activity to kind of uh bring this all together. >> Can I mention something? >> Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. I forgot
159something. Um when it came to the the football fields, um we we did install artificial turf and we did that because it uses less water, but also because it's the the fields would then be in greater use and and um and by various not just kids at the high school level, but then by outside groups and stuff. But I remember specifically learning about Mountain View that Mountain View didn't have the number of fields that the other schools did because it's on a smaller footprint and and so that our kids had access to athletic fields, it was absolutely critical to have the the the the turf and and I have to tell you um going to graduation and seeing the pride that parents had as their kids were being honored on a field that was um
160reflected the pride of the community. Um I think it's I think we have to think about communityf facing um infrastructure and and that I know maybe it's maybe it's it's pretty but good God um people ought to feel welcome and they ought to feel that there's some pride in in in things that are on our campuses that particularly they are they are engaged in. So, um, we didn't put a jumbotron on each football field, however. Um, so, um, and so I think sometimes we we do have to think about, um, things that invoke a pride of a community and and a a a pride of of being a part of Mesa Public Schools. and and every time I see that commercial for that one law firm and I see the Westwood um um football field
161there, I I I I don't know, I have a little bit of pride, too. And um and it it's a it's a it's a good look for us. And let's face it, folks, we have to market Mesa Public Schools. And so, we have to think about some of those things as well. Good morning everybody. Uh our first reflection was uh based on our homework assignment. Uh then you did this fun activity elementary, junior high and uh high school. Uh just trying to get a input feedback on priority as far as impact to student outcomes, student safety safety and also the urgency based on the information you knew at the time. Here's just a small activity to kind of give a snapshot of what on how you feel about certain areas and its priority. Everybody should
162have some popsicle sticks and stars. Thank you, Victoria, for the I did not make those. I had a feeling there might. >> So, we're going to do one question at a time and then I'm going to ask you to just to uh a five 4 3 2 1. Five being critical, the highest priority, one being the lowest priority um based on each question. Each question has is tied to a specific topic. So, for example, the first one is how important is having front SEC or secure front lobbies at school sites? Victoria's going to capture your thing. So, please try to >> although can I say five should have been green for go. Pink is for love. Okay, next one. Ready, Victoria? You got it. How important is investing in up-to-date security technology? all schools like
163>> just more broad not one particular school just have it advanced. So for example we have security cameras uh weapons detection. Yep. >> Security evolves. Everything evolves. So how important is it for >> how important is it that we keep up to date? We have AI coming in play. >> I don't think we should keep up to date at all. >> That would be silly. Mr. Wing, >> four point. >> Rachel, >> I told uh everybody this would not happen if we did 1, two, three, four, five, but it still happened. 4.5. >> Well, so I we had I mean I would seem to me like we would have to keep up to date if you actually want to maintain security. So, >> huh. differently from high school to elementary. >> How important is addressing
164security gaps in existing structures such as our windows and doors? >> For example, we have a school with plexiglass, you know, as windows. >> Ready, Victoria? Okay, this is a I think a four-parter, so we're going to do one at a time. How important is providing appropriate student technology in and we're going to start with K2 classrooms first? Remember, five being critical or highest priority, one being okay. Uh 36 classrooms Anybody want to guess? >> Seven, eight classrooms. >> All right. And then 9:12. We have a few more questions to go through, too. Okay. Really quickly, I want to encourage the board to continue to work with the cabinet in individual sessions and just, you know, we we are in the learning community uh environment working with the regional executive directors already to talk about,
165you know, this K2 concept and what tech looks technology looks like in kindergarten through 2 grade and also talk about, you know, that there is some movement ments in certain areas nationally where, you know, people that are involved in the high-tech arena are sending their own individual kids to no tech schools. >> Uh, and that's an interesting concept in Mesa public schools. And here's what I don't want to do. Uh, if we have no principal leaders that want to take on that task, I don't want at this level to tell principles how to lead their community. But if it resonates in learning communities and uh uh you know it's a concept that I think has shifted over the last 20 years I think we need to be aware and asking the questions through the executive
166learning uh executive directors of learning communities of hey is there going to be a time and place for you know having one of our school of choice options be a no tech school in every learning community and having something out there for parents to say hey when you come to this campus and maybe not no tech, but low tech, right? They're not going to be on devices hardly any of the day. Um, so I what I'm I'm not telling you that's where we're moving or that's where we're headed. What I want to encourage out of this question is board members to continue dialogue with us in our individual one-on- ones. Uh, and I don't think the adjustment is as easy as next year. Uh, that that we're trying to adjust at our level. We're trying
167to adjust that things kind of have to be done by September or October for the following year. So this would be about planning for not 2627 but planning for 2728 because this would take Dr. East is is giving me some uh uh body language right now uh suggested on it does take a lift. I need everyone to understand it would take a lift to to on behalf of teaching and learning to execute on something like that. uh because we'd have to transition a lot of our materials. So, thank you for continued feedback on question four. >> Keep those stars in your hand. How important is keeping CTE classrooms and programs programs updated to reflect current workforce skills and learning needs? Okay, Victoria got it. Thank you. How important is investing in new buildings instead of
168renovating existing facilities when overall costs are comparable or what should be potentially more? >> But he's basically saying if we can get new for the same price that we renovate old, which would be more important? >> My car repair is 10,000 or I can buy a new for 10,000. But I think it depends too on on like the area too like like are you going to build you know you build a new brick and mortar site but then even though it's new does it continue to decline in pop population enrollment there right so that's why >> but this this question is do you invest the same dollar amount basically in renovating the current building structures or do you use the same amount of money to build a new structure >> about the survey model I
169feel like we should have had already spent a little more time on these questions But but to me it makes sense, right, to especially if we in declining enrollment because the conversation we've had is can we can we roll three into one, right? >> Yeah. >> So uh and this is going I mean I I think all of us need to understand that this is where uh it it becomes emotional rather than than objective when you're talking about the neighborhood school that's been there, you know, 30 years. >> Yeah. Uh and so we have to be able to step back from the emotion part of it and say what is the long if we're talking long-term sustainability. Uh it it does make more sense in my mind to like the Carson Emerson um uh >>
170example that you gave. That's going to increase the longevity of Carson Emerson, right? that even if we have a declining enrollment, let's say that the board said, "Okay, well, now we don't have kids there. Maybe we sell that building. Well, it's going to be way easier to sell a newer building that's not 100 years old than it is an uh an older one, unless you know it's like my daughter who likes the character of old." Now, I think and we're looking at at that, you know, where we're going to if you're and I I know what you're saying and I agree with that, right? If it's the same cost to build new as it is to renovate, you would just build new. But it's if you're building new brick and mortar, how long do we
171expect that campus to stay there? Are we projecting that it'll stay there for 50 years or are we projecting it'll stay there for 20 years? And that's where it's like I mean, that's where I think it depends on the priority. Maybe that area is not the area you want to prioritize. Or is there a nearby campus? Can we funnel people into a newer campus instead of having to build a new one? And I think you're all looking at that. I know you're smart. You're going to look at all those different things, right? Like maybe there's a campus we can renovate that's instead of building a new one, we can just move people over there, you know? But uh the for for me like building a new brick and mortar, we've got to have a a
172compelling argument for the longevity of of that of that building too, which I is hard to predict. But I would, you know, definitely want it to be like, yeah, we expect the amount of kids here to stay pretty constant. >> When when you don't go into line item, you you do have to draw some assumptions. And so the assumption is we wouldn't just build a building that we wouldn't use in 3 years. could be an ongoing >> member Walden, governing board members. Uh you know, this is this is where you get a little um hesitant because you don't want to create angst in the community. >> Um and so we're real we we we we think we know now at this point that you know we ran and I'm I'm just going to stay really
173high level and take it up a notch. Dr. Harris tells me all the time, take it up a notch, higher level. We we we we know that we ran specials committees for the last two years and we know that in one year there was community feedback regarding one issue and another year there was community feedback regarding another issue. Okay. We also have ran particip small small group small school uh budgeting and participatory staffing for the last two years. And parents and community members in these five schools that are running small group participatory staffing are being presented with a budget of revenues that the school generates and expenses that they're currently expensed against. And some of our smaller schools, to be frank with you, are are spending in their expense side $750,000 to a million and
174a half more than they generate. And that is offset by getting economies of scale somewhere else in your business. It's no different than, you know, I don't think is I'm trying to think of something that's not in independently owned and operated, like a chain that's not independently owned and operated, like being able to run that store in this community, even though it generates just breaking even because you're over in this region generating a big-time profit. So, this store doesn't hurt you near as much because you have profitability in other in in another store. And and so you know what we know from the parent participatory staffing model is we know that parents and community members and school leaders are having trouble saying this is how we're going to function within 10% of our revenues. And
175with all that being said, in terms of question six, we we fully realize that there's buildings where the cost of building new is the same and maybe sometimes even a bit a little bit less than renovating an old building. And that's what this question centered around if we were to get a bond. And so what we don't want to do is start talking about what schools and places are affected and creating anxiety because if a bond doesn't pass in November 26, we create a bunch of anxiety that no one needs, right? But what we do want to do is be transparent. And the transparency portion of it is if a bond passes, you know, and everyone knows about Carson Emerson because that's the example we use, it's likely going to be something beyond Carson Emerson
176because I don't think in the in in Mesa public schools over the course of the next 10 years with where demography is likely headed, I'm not convinced that we'll need as many schools as we currently have. With that being said, what we're hoping is we're hoping the citizens budget committee gets to the same point we're at with the com uh participatory staffing committee right now gets to the same point that the specials committee's at, which is uh advising the board that it's probably about time to put together a community membership meeting of different people from each learning community region and start talking about what my comment just now. We probably won't likely by 2035 need as many schools as we need. What's that mean and what's that look like? Because as this board has stated
177to me several times, you know, it's not this district functions on feedback loops. That's how it fun. It doesn't function top down. Functions on feedback loops. And so uh setting up a feedback loop where we can over the course of the next two years think about this problem and if a bond passes then yeah what what what's it mean to live into a space where we can get some M operational efficiencies and at the same time let a lot of kids live into a brand new A4LE that's architects for learning environments A4LE top tier learning environment on a campus where it affects not just 600 elementary kids, but it affects 2,000 K8 kids, you know, and we get some economies of scale out of that. So, you know, I just I need the board to
178hear a yes, Mr. Wang's correct. We wouldn't be thinking about this issue without knowing it could last for 100 years, and B, yes, we understand that in certain regions, the demography of the region such that a school is going to get smaller. And then how do you make the plans for that region fit? So a new build could continue to have a bigger envelope for a wider uh population of square ms in that region. So, uh, very aware of some of the things that are going to brighten up and and hoping that, uh, some of our committees that are currently running can start talking to us about, hey, it's probably time to get a committee on school optimization and portfolios of schools together across the six different regions so we can have honest and open
179dialogue. >> Dr. strong. Are we also looking or not looking but uh discussing with the city of Mesa uh and their um renovation plans across the like within their different districts? Um so I know like on the west side that is where a lot of our older schools are. It's the older part of Mesa. I know there's talk of upgrading or not really upgrading but you know what I mean. So that potentially uh revamping the west side potentially increases the number of families that move into the west side versus leaving the west side. Does that make sense? And not just the west side, but I mean any of our schools. Are we are we discussing with the city what they're doing? >> Yeah, member Benson, we have meetings frequently with the city. Uh they keep
180us well informed. We keep them well informed of what we're doing. Uh, and I let's go Fiesta Mall for an example. Uh, and what they're doing in the Fiesta Mall region. I don't want to speak in length about it because I have about this much knowledge compared to City People, but I think that's 4,000 units that are going to get spun up in that region if if the plans that I've read about in the paper come to fruition. That then tells us demography wise that that might add some kids in that region. And if that adds some kids in that region, then we need to be aware of what school things are happening in that region. So, we're that's just a nice example of we're very aware. I will tell you with some of the
181redevelopment that's happening. Uh I I I'm hesitant to think that it's going to generate like the rate of single family uh homes uh because uh a lot of the new construction redevelopment is centered on uh more modern urban type living with closed ecosystems where if you live there you can get everything right there in that square mile in that two square miles. And so, you know, whether it generates at the rate of single family homes is yet to be determined, but we do know 4,000 units is going to generate some amount of kids. And so, we are connected to the city and very aware of their development projects. In fact, they send us on every development project, we get to give feedback that we don't have influence, but we get to give feedback on consider
182this, consider that, consider that. >> We have four more to go through in this activity and then we'll go to another one. Um, how important is it that if local bonds or overrides are pursued, all schools receive some level of investment? More conceptual thinking. No, it's good. >> How important is investing in HVAC systems? And we're in Arizona. Keep that in mind. The next one is not really talked about much, but highly important for my my opinion. How about uh plumbing systems? Okay. How important is addressing classrooms and learning spaces that are in poor or deteriorating conditions? >> Consolidate spaces. >> It's like all of this combined, right? Okay. Next, another activity to get some reflection or some input. I gave board members each two copies. It's the same copy. I figured you would change
183your mind and so you want some scratch paper on one. I know some of you whale too much, I guess. Maybe. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, but this is more just priority order. One being the highest, 12 being the lowest lowest. You're not to use the same number twice. And uh for uh Mrs. Walden and Mrs. Davis, no 3.5 splitting. >> What? >> Yep. So something has to be 12 and something has to be one >> has to be one and no half points, >> right? >> And I think too, like I don't know if anyone's going to listen to this, like I think everyone knows it's all important, but when you're looking at a limited budget and the money is just not there. That's where that's where this is coming from. Not I mean
184it's all it's all important. >> These are all topics we discuss what seems like daily. Remember our budget is 29 million. A little less than 20 mill 29 million from the state right now. This is more independent work. >> I haven't had enough coffee. You didn't give me a coffee. >> 5 to 10 minutes. Five minutes independent work. And then for the rest of us, it's up there if you want to. clarify better. Are you collecting these? Do you want my name on it? Need more time? 30 seconds. Good. Fair enough. There are so many weather >> insulation. finding out where you have leaks in that kind of >> weatherization. Yeah. >> So there are grants for that. Yeah, Windows is the big thing. >> This was >> making sure your decks are >> This
185wasn't an all-inclusive list. Uh because there's more than 12. >> Just a little snapshot of SA safety and security, academics, technology, building infrastructure. Um it's really what um how this was applied. Do we just want to do round robin real quick and pick uh share your your top priority and then your number 12 your least priority? We'll start with uh Mrs. Benson. >> Okay. I put uh HVAC as number one uh because again we live in Arizona and nobody can learn when they're sweating to death. And my least my number 12 um is technology in elementary schools. Um my top was also HVAC and my bottom was maintaining the school bus fleet. My number one was secure front lobbies. My 12 was student technology in elementary schools. >> Yeah. My la my last one was
186student tech in elementary schools. And then second to last was the the ch changing bus route. So it was close with was that what yours? And then uh my top one I debated between HVAC and plumbing but I went with plumbing because I know if you're really trying to reduce your your cost that the the water loss and uh you're going to save more money there. And then on the flip side, like if something is wrong with plumbing, that's going to be if it snowballs from neglect, that's going to be one of your biggest expenses where you could have because you neglected a plumbing system, a $200 million repair, you know, in the district. I've got HVAC with a close second being securing the front lobbies in all the schools. And my last one is
187student technology in elementary schools. >> Think there's some commonality there. >> Pencil and paper. >> Oops. Just more information for administration to help prepare uh our next steps moving forward with capital planning. Any takeaways from all the activities? No, I just want to um make mention of the fact that having um a member of the Arizona Corporation Commission uh on our school board when it comes to uh living into uh effective use of energy is a benefit that other districts don't have. >> They don't have it, but it's turned me into a colossal nerd like big time. >> I was already kind of a nerd. Yeah. No, I don't dispute that. But it's like really bad now. >> I think of the word scarcity when I think of capital uh planning, not necessarily unlimited wants,
188but unlimited needs >> uh and limited resources. And so this has been helpful. Thank you. >> Are we breaking for lunch? >> All right. They're just uh finishing setting up for lunch. So we'll go ahead and break now and we'll come back at 12:30. All right, welcome back. We're going to turn the time over to Dr. Gibbs. >> All right. How's that? >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> So, we we we've listened to the governing board over the course of the last six months. And I just want everyone to understand this was purposely designed. We have a lot of capital things that are probably more business operations and and while they're linked to student learning and student outcomes, uh they are more loosely coupled than they are strongly correlated. And then this afternoon, we wanted to
189take you through an activity on this survey process which we think is strongly correlated to feedback loops on student learning and student learning outcomes. So, I just want you to know we're trying to balance the need for what we have to do operationally with the need for academic outcomes. >> Well, it's good to be with you guys today. Um, and just following up on your interest expressed earlier in in certain survey items, um, we have put together, as you saw from this past weekend, um, some items for you to review. And what I have for you today is a set of set of three surveys to walk through. And if we can have the second slide, please. So, just to give you an idea of Oh, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Um, this
190clicker always gives me problems, but um just to kind of walk you through what we're going to do. We have an hour and a half. Um, we're going to start out. I'm just going to go through some key considerations about survey use in our district. Um, not clinic and survey design. That's not what this is meant to be. You'll all go to sleep if I do that. Um, but then we'll kind of go through take us probably about 20 minutes to go through each of the three different surveys and get some kind of roundrobin feedback from folks about items that stand out to you this weekend. You should have received I think three essential questions. Did you guys get those? Uh, so just some things to start thinking about. So we'll go through those. So
191what is the main qu what one question you would ask if you could only ask one question for these different audiences? Um, secondly, uh, what are some questions that you would want to ask this year? and then what are some questions you'd want to ask every year? So, I'll kind of go through several of those and I'll give you some time to read through them and then we'll have it a time of talking about them afterwards. So, um I have some materials for you. Uh but before we do that, let me go ahead and jump into this key considerations first. So, okay. So, four four main considerations. one regarding the survey purpose, survey fatigue, which I think one of you guys mentioned survey fatigue recently in one of our board meetings, survey design and survey
192interpretation. Um, so in terms of purpose, typically you're looking at use these surveys to do something in terms of continuous improvement like what Dr. Strong was just saying where you want to um keep your eye on a certain indicator year-over-year. And so those are longitudinal items and you want to make sure that you kind of repeat those items year after year in order to be able to see some change. So radical changes to surveys. Um even if you do a lot changes, you don't want to you want to have at least some things that kind of give you a year-over-year continuity. And then you have uh program improvement changes. So program improvement purposes. And those are usually single item single-use items. Like this year there's an interest in block schedule and CCAs. So you see
193some of those other years you might see some other folky. So, um, bearing in mind that those are the two purposes with the surveys that we're looking at today, attempt to serve both of those purposes. Which leads me to why not two surveys? Well, because of survey fatigue. So, typically like you over the course of a year, you don't want to give too many surveys because people will stop responding to them and it takes a lot of time. And so if you can combine them into a single survey that gets you where you need to go, uh then you're more likely to get a a better response and something for folks to look forward to every year as a chance to give their voice. And um and ideally it would be 10 minutes or less.
194When you get to 10 minutes, your fall-off rate begins to start to increase. Um some of these surveys, as I stand now, would be tough a tough fit for 10 minutes if for somebody's trying to answer thoughtfully. So something to think about in terms of adding items. And then you try to look at between seven to 10 seconds per item for kind of the closed items, closed response items. And then for the open response items, you're going to see I've kind of limited some of these to be 250 characters, 150 characters. And that is designed to kind of keep them moving and to make sure that you kind of crystallize what it is you want to say so that you can analyze it afterwards. So open response items are great, but if somebody talks for
195a couple of paragraphs and sometimes you need to do that, that's just could be very timeconuming, very and very difficult to figure out what the point is. So you can combine some closed response items with short responses and allow people to c and help them to kind of categorize their main ideas. That gives you a nice hybrid and you'll see some of that in there as well. Um, and then in terms of design, there's a lot of stuff you could say here. You could talk about the the classic doubleb barreled item where you ask two questions in one item and then you get response back and you don't know which they were responding to. That's uh there's a lot of principles like that but I've kind of identified four of them. One you want to
196try to avoid ask asking leading question that kind of points them in a certain way. So why why why don't you like the school building? Well I mean that that's gonna push you in a certain direction. You don't want to do something like that. Um, so and if you see a leading question, let me know because we, you know, want to try to call those out. I've tried to kind of clean some of those out, but you never know. Um, and then there's uh, uh, you want to leverage existing items wherever possible. So, a lot of the items you see on here, like why does it say it that way? Because we're trying to pull things from other surveys that have had a lot of roadware. Um, Panorama is a big is a big one.
197Um some really great people have done work on the panorama survey over the years and we've used a lot of their items in the past here at the district. Um and then there's other major major organizations like OECD and IEA that have had uh items that have been field tested and used all over the world in different nations and have been tried and have been tried and found useful over the course of 20 years. So we try to pull from those where possible rather than just inventing our own. Obviously, with single-use items, you you do have to invent some of your own questions. You're not going to have um you know, asking questions about CCAs at at our district, like you know, that there aren't there's not a lot you can draw upon. There are
198CCA surveys out there. I try to use some of the items from those, but um typically though, you want to try to draw from existing items. Um and then and then um considering the counterfactual. So if you ask an if you ask a question about what do you think about let's take block schedule block scheduling in our district well compared to what if you're a student and you're you're in a school and all you know is block scheduling what how do you how do you what's the counterfactual for that? So one thing you can do to help that is to have a control. So ask make sure you ask from all the high schools to get feedback on something. Um, and if you have longitudinal data, you can then look at what goals has said
199to those kinds of questions in the past to see how it differs now. So there are some ways to do it, but you want to try to think of what is the counterfactual not just for the person responding, but also how am I going to read this? What is the counterfactual in my own mind as I look at this data? So thinking about the counterfactuals. Um, and so that sometimes forces you to ask questions, two different questions together to to be able to break some of those things out. Um and then uh we talked about open versus closed items and the processing time and um and then coming to consensus across a large number of responses that people uh surface and then finally when you interpret the response responses how many people actually responded. Typically
200we don't get a huge overwhelming parent response to our surveys. Um if we ask maybe just once a year instead of twice we might get a better response. We'll have to wait and see. Um, but we don't usually get a huge response and that's one of the things this year we're trying to only ask once a year. One student survey, one parent survey, one teacher survey, one employee survey so that we get a better response and we don't overwhelm people. We've also worked hard to kind of reduce the number of items on all three surveys and they've kind of gotten big again now that we've added some block schedule and and uh and CCA items back on, but we're trying to keep them short shorter than they were. And then um representation. Do we hear
201from key constituent groups? And that's why you ask demographic questions because you want to see who's responding to see what kind of profile you have and does it match your constituency? People don't feel comfortable answering too many demographic items because they think it might reveal who they are. So that's the downside. You'd love to be able to do like a, you know, very expensive survey where they take 50 to 100 50 to 60 minutes on the phone and ask you all these questions about you. You can't do that because people don't like to have that kind of reveal that kind of detail. So when we give our surveys, we have to kind of decide okay what's the bare minimum that I need. You know, we need to know student grade level, student school. You might
202not be able to ask all the other questions that you typically would ask in a survey. Even though that's helpful for analysis, you have to decide how much you want to ask people to actually reveal about themselves. So um one of the items on the parent survey that I added since you guys have seen it last is a question about sped at the and I put it at the very end of the survey and made a point it was optional to to share that information. Why? Because kids in kids who are from sped background might experience like a CCA in a different way than kids who aren't. So there there are some but there's not very much demographic data that we're collecting and that's the reason why is to protect is to help them feel
203like their their data is confidential. So, those are some general things to kind of think in mind, keep bear in mind as we go forward. And then we're going to just jump in. And at this point, we're going to go through some surveys. I have a little graphic organizer for you. And I think we're working with um um keep one of these myself here, but I think we're working with teams. Is that right? Or working with groups. >> Yeah. So, um and then here's the parent survey. You can go ahead and pass this down. You want to grab one for yourself there. And then you have seen this before. I there are a couple of new ones that I've added. This is a work in progress. And um I've added the one since you saw
204it last. There's some items that are highlighted in gray that you're going to see. Uh item 34 35. Those are a couple new ones that I've added. Um, and just in terms of this particular survey, what are we doing here? So, just to walk you through it briefly, and I'm going to give you 10 minutes to read through it. Um, you've already read through it, so maybe we'll make it five minutes. Uh, we'll see. But, um, we have we're asking questions that are not just about block survey, but we've also asked questions about just academics in general. One of the things that we wanted to do this year on our surveys is minimize the number of kind of um um how do you feel responses from students and others and ask them about their attitudes
205toward things like mathematics, attitude towards science, attitude toward English to get their perspectives on instruction which we haven't done a huge amount of in the past. So this year we we incorporated a stronger focus on students attitudes about those kind of things that was already in the works. And so what we've done in some of these is we're going to be able to use some of that data questions about rigor. How do you feel the rigor is in the classroom? We can use that in thinking about CCAs and um and behavior. That's another thing too. There's there's other items that come up that that people tangentially connect to block schedule or to CCAs. We were going to ask those kind of questions anyways this year to start doubling down on behavior and academics and rigor.
206And so we can link that with the responses about when you put them all together in one survey, then you can tie that data together to see people who feel this way about these subject areas also feel this way about these other things. So that's the value of having things together in all one place. Make sense? Um and I you know what I should have printed instead of one per team, I should have printed one for each person. I don't know why I didn't think about that. Okay. All right. So, go ahead and read through it. Um, we have a timekeeper. Thank you, Cameo. Can you please set us for 10 minutes? And, um, if we don't need that much time, that's great. We can go shorter. I also ask a question about high school,
207whether what their what their plans are for high school. Um, that's a new one since you saw it last because that might affect if you are planning to go to college afterwards. Um, that might affect the way that you answer the rest of the questions, too. So, if you don't, that might affect it in a different way, too. That's another kind of a demographic item. So go ahead and read it and I will try not to talk during this time. >> Okay. And then Paul, I just want to confirm that the you in we intend on sending this out right after spring break. Is that correct? That's the >> Yeah. So the date that I haven't the date that I have is the 26th of March. Is it? It's the um um it's Yeah, it's
208the Tuesday after spring break. So yeah. And then well for the student survey, we have to send that out in advance. Okay. Yeah, it's a third. So, this the student survey has to go out a couple weeks in advance so the parents can see it before we send it. Um, so what we're you know, your feedback on this process is helpful because we'll take that and integrate that integrate your feedback into these surveys to um um so we can wrap this up by midFebruary the redesign work and then um send that out for parents to review before two weeks before they actually have the kids actually have to take it. So um all right which is close sorry I said I wasn't I was going to try not to talk and here I go keep
209talking. So um so the other thing is that these will we typically give these surveys in the early fall like September and then like around the April time frame. So it's I had thought about perhaps doing these in February but um on upon reflection I realized that we're probably better off doing them closer to the same time of the year as we typically get them. so that your answers tend to be sort of similar. Like if you're burned out in a year, you can't wait for school to end and you're a kid, then your attitudes can be taken in that in light of that particular annual reality. So, all right, I'm going to stop now. So you guys when we're going through this, you want to keep in mind these three these three questions. What
210is if you could ask one question, what would it be? What questions you would want to ask every year? And what questions you want to ask this year? So those are the three essential questions to kind of look at these items, look at these surveys through the lens of those three questions. And then you can use your graphic organizer to make some notes. Maybe not because we maybe not yet. >> Yeah. >> So, so real quickly, >> I I don't think we can use every question. And Paul Paul will ultimately design the survey. He's got more survey research expertise than I do, but you're going to get into survey fatigue and people are just going to not finish the questions that are maybe most most important to you. So, what we're trying to do in
211this experience is get your feedback on these three essential questions because we know we can't ask everybody everything, right? And then we know we want certain consistent questions every year because that's how you're going to get longitudinal data to see if if the system perception wise is moving how you want it to. And then we know there's topics that are germanine to what's happening right now. That's the third portion of this question. What questions would we want to ask this year? Um and so as you're going through, evaluate through that lens and then we'll do a debrief to help us understand where board members thoughts are. >> Yeah. Thank you. That is the bell. All right. So, >> yeah, >> we're going to do some one do some round robin here and ask you folks
212to kind of start with the first most important item that you would ask. So, um let's start at this end of the table. You guys ready with your number one most important item on the survey? Um, >> excuse me. Um, we thought it was probably number 13. >> And what is that item there? >> To what extent does your student enjoy going to school? >> Okay. All right. >> We figured that question would say a lot in very simply. >> Can we get a timer, please, for eight minutes? >> Thanks. Okay. So, um let's kind of go through and then we'll um maybe have some commentary about it. So, all right. Let's go with the second >> uh my just my my favorite question. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, if I could ask one, it
213would be it was question 31. Students at all levels of academic performance are challenged with the rigorous curriculum at their school. >> Okay. >> Right. That's a Yeah, that's a new one that we just are looking at adding this year. So, >> um Okay. So, um >> mine was five in general. What kind of grade would you give your student school? >> Grade. Okay. I heard number I heard several of you talking about that one. >> Letter grade. >> Mine would be number 45. Where do you expect your student will attend school next year? And I wish there was a why. like why do you choose your child's school? >> Well, you know what's interesting is yes, that's actually interesting and um what Jen just mentioned as we're going through it is that now you've
214got the whole survey actually. Now you can look at all the other responses to the survey to see okay the people who are not returning answered this way on the other items. So that might provide some insight without adding another another item. But um I think an open response option at the end if somebody answers that wouldn't would would be helpful. Okay. A B CDE E. >> We did um five and six. So the grade and um how likely are you to recommend your students? >> So you like the the uh the zero to 10 scale. >> No, it's how >> well I think >> Oh, that's right. How likely do you recommend? Yeah. Yeah. >> Although well yeah six and seven are repeats I think. So From a statistical standpoint, I guess it would
215be is it easier on a scale 0 to 10? >> 0 to 10 is nice because it has there's a there's actually >> Yeah, it has a well recognized scale to to use that um in the NPS rating >> and um >> the net promoter score is a well-known kind of way to kind of gauge responses. Yeah, that's a 010. That's why that's on there. >> Yeah. And I like those too because Justin and I were talking about the fact that um minutes. Sorry. >> Uh we were you you then are kind of probably know how the rest of the survey is going to go, >> you know, and whether it's going to be more positive oriented. Uh and I just believe like if we have parents that are highly likely to recommend their school,
216then we need to just get them encouraged to do that because the best form of advertising and marketing is word of mouth. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Question that you would ask every year. Let's do one question. And I'll say two questions from each of you and questions you'd ask every year. So a team >> Okay. >> And we recognize that your favorite question is probably one you'd ask every year. So try to pick that one. Yeah. Try to sketch something outside of your favorite. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, um, member Hutchinson >> 19. Yeah. Um we're we've already heard from the other groups some of our questions from every year. So we'd also like to hear um every year question 18. >> And which question is that? >> And that's um in general my student
217finds the pace of learning in classes to be >> so >> and and and >> 20 as well. Um the behavior of other students hurting or helping learning. >> Okay. Am I picking two additional or my favorite and one additional or is it just >> you already you already gave us your favorite one so just pick two that you haven't done yet. >> Okay. So uh seven the scale of 0 to 10. How likely would you recommend because of the uh the net promoter score aspect of it eight or higher. We know that they're going to recommend the school. And uh question 36 that uh the school's schedule makes it possible to explore a college career pathway of interest during the school day. And uh Mr. Gibbs and I discussed that like that's actually relevant
218for K through 12. >> Yeah. So the goal for this one for the parent survey is going to go to just as a not aside will go to all families. the student survey this at this point in time is we're looking at doing grades six through 12 >> rather than doing the little ones um so or sorry grades seven through 12 um secondary secondary level >> oh then that's why that question is relevant to all of them then if it's just 7 through 12 >> um but yeah I think I think and I know you said that was a new one I think that one could be really vital and knowing if we're offering a you know a product to parents that feel like there's going to be a worthwhile result for their students for
219their children Yeah. Okay. Member Davis's team. >> Sorry. >> Okay. We are going with number 11. How frequently do you check parent view to monitor your students progress on average >> so we can kind of see what happening. And then um number 33. My students classes stay productive for the full instructional time. Yeah, sounds like you have some other folks that feel the same way. >> Mine for every year are very similar to my board members. The only one that I have that's different um is 21. My school's my student school effectively fosters positive behavior because I felt like it gave a little bit different information than 20. It might also talk about the the culture that you're creating on your school campus. Mhm. >> Um, and I appreciate the one about parent view except
220for I felt like we can kind of pull that data in other ways. So, I wasn't sure I wanted to use the survey question on that because there's other ways we can look at it. >> What you can't do though is like you can't look at that in light of >> the other responses to see. So, that's like that's something that I frequently deal is okay if I I can get this from somewhere else but then I can't link the data >> but there's so many questions. So, you have to make the decision whether or not to toss it in or not. But that's actually that's a helpful consideration. So, >> so when they do the communication one, sorry to speak out loud. When you ask about communication from the school or the district and
221they said little to no communication and they're not checking. >> Yeah, that's what member Walden was saying just a minute few minutes ago. >> Okay. Remember Benson's team? >> Um, what did we not Oh, 33. Do we have 33 marked? my students classes stay >> these are not marked >> oh nobody said the other ones >> the ones that marked okay so let me look at them again that I don't have um 32 which is at Mace public schools everyone can succeed to their full potential no matter what uh and there were a couple of questions about respect uh that I think are important because uh both from a teacher to student and student toteer without a respectful environment, you cannot uh it also impacts learning. So if students feel like they're completely disrespected by
222adults on campus, that is an issue. And if students or and if teachers feel like they're completely disrespected. So I think that was was that >> 15 and 16. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. How about for this year? We got a member Hudson Nim. >> Okay. Well, I think >> Okay. The two questions we had were number 37 um which were the kids able to enroll in the college and career ch academy of their choice. And number 41 um comparing the traditional daily schedule with the block schedule. Okay. >> All right. Uh, member Alen, >> so yeah, the uh were they able to enroll of the uh academy of their choice and then 36 I I definitely would want to ask that this year if their schedule makes it possible to explore the college career
223pathway of interest during the school day. Okay. Do you remember Davis? >> Mine have already been taken. Um, >> which one which one was the one you had? >> I had 37 and 41. >> Okay, that's good to know. >> So, I'll pass it on. >> But you want Do you want to add anything else to it? Feel free to add um >> Yeah, I would add 38. 38. >> If your student could choose, which option do you think they would prefer? >> Okay. Yeah, I looked at 38 and then decided I kind of liked 41 a little bit better. I think because the answer doesn't lock us into eight classes depending on what happens with our budget and where we end up. So, I liked the idea that 41 gave us an idea of
224how does block schedule prepare them for the college and career pathway of interest to them. And I felt like it was also a little more specific than 36, which just says our school schedule. So, it kind of gave me an idea of like how does block schedule tie to that. Um, number 40. If a student wants to opt out of Academy Core classes, there is a process that students can follow to find a better fit. While I like the question, I think we know the answer. And I'm not sure we want to use a survey question, and that's something I'd love to see just district address, but I do think there's an opportunity to see if parents are aware of it. >> That's exactly you hit it. That's it. So, >> but I think we
225know the answer. Yeah, that's actually that's exactly why these are more like, you know, truth truth or fiction questions to see what people's perception is of the policy. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, you raised a good point and that's that's kind of why they're there, too, is to ask, okay, do they really do they really know what the policies are? >> Yeah. And I I I have concerns about the answer because a parent might say, "Oh, I've heard there's an opt out." But unless they've like actually tried to do the optout process, I don't know if that gives us information on it. So, >> um, and then 42. I just had some feedback because it says high school parents only, but our junior high students also do honors classes. >> Um, >> don't believe
226maybe >> what's that? >> And I didn't find out until after. So, >> what's the answer to that? >> Yeah. >> Steven. Okay. All right. And I, as a parent, I did not find out until afterward that my child was enrolled in a mixed class because it had not been communicated very clearly. So for me, 42 isn't real helpful because you might not know that your kid was even being double coded in a junior high class, but I maybe there's an opportunity to address that somewhere. >> Okay. Um, return that. Yeah, because I I know that you can take advanced math classes and are those code is that called honors and then I don't know if they're called that in the catalog. I can't recall. >> This is actually like the teaming model at the
227junior high level that's doing mixed honors and non- honors. >> Okay. Right. >> So, uh I think 39 is important. Uh students can change to a different college and career academy at their school. Uh however, I don't actually see and I think the uh the 41 is good. I I don't actually see the question that a lot of our parents had, which was um what if my kid doesn't want to do a college uh or a career academy at all and wants a traditional college path? Mhm. >> That is the qu I I think if we don't ask if I I don't see it. >> So I I guess that >> Yeah, I see the opt out of academy core class. >> That would be >> so none of our high schools offer just a
228college a traditional college path. It is career themed. And uh I just recall a majority of Huh. classical traditional. >> No, but each of our comprehensive high schools. So on each that to me that the feedback we got last spring was almost entirely that >> they didn't have an parents did not have an overall objection to a career themed but my kid's going to college. I want a traditional college path. And the frustration for them and I believe why we lost so many high school students this year is because we were not responsive to that and we would not allow a traditional college path on our comprehensive high schools. >> That is a question I don't see it here anywhere and that is the question our parents want to be able to answer. >> Thanks.
229Thank you for bringing that up because actually that would shape the way that this question 40 gets revised probably because that's what actually 40 is referring to is that there is an opt- out process but um the question we actually raised this question because of the concern that people might not be aware that there is there is a process if if you don't if you are not wanting to do this there are students who have opted out so that's good to know >> on a very rare basis and it has been very difficult for them to do because there is not a traditional path, okay, on the on a campus. So, fivemmies and hey, you want you're more collegebound or you just want a classical education. Um, that's what they're not seeing. So, I can
230give you an example of one student. They they yes they are totally opted out of the academy but in order to do that it was this piece this piece this piece and it added a lot of um complexity to how the child is doing their education. >> So maybe something along the lines of the complexity of actually if you do opt out how hard is it >> along those lines. >> Doc Dr. Gibbs I'm hearing a decoupling of the question. there's the opt out process, >> right? And then another question that's centered around if uh college academy and some of the schools that uh Mesa public schools visited in the process of exploring these college careeries actually had a college academy for a brief period of time. I think some of the schools tried it
231and then they went away from it actually, but they actually had that pathway. So I don't know if coupling them together is a good solution set is all I'm saying. I think decoupling the questions and just asking >> two separate questions >> to learn and then if we have it by school we may learn that at some campuses it resonates and at other campuses it doesn't resonate. >> Well and I think that's exactly what we would find that each high school community is probably a little bit different. Right. And so, um, but that that to me that was the overall theme last spring was my kids collegebound. Where's that? Okay. But I I'd like to refer back to what Dr. Gibbs said that this is about this survey should be about con continuous improvement. We
232this is about what we have now and how we would be improving it and and I I would agree that that certainly we want input on how it's going and how it can be improved. I I see us with maybe those types of questions. It's like, okay, we're going to go back to square one. I I don't see us doing that. and and we have established a college prep high school in Shepard Junior High. We have a traditional high school, Mesa High, and in a in a atmosphere of school choice. Um, this is this survey should really truly be about what we have now and how it can be improved. That's what I that's what I heard you say is one of the purpose of the surveys is continuous improvement. >> Yeah. Pro and program
233improvement too. Yeah, definitely both of those things. >> But if we are focused on our promise which is every student in Mesa public schools is known by name, served by strength and need and graduates ready for college, career and community. Uh that's within each one of our high school campuses as well. And I actually do see it it an improvement if um we have a college path on our campuses that want a college path. >> I'm not saying eliminate the career themedmies and I don't career is is medicine. A career is being a physicist. A career and you have to have college for those careers. So what I'm what I'm hearing is that that career is more for um like uh tech or or technical work or um um maybe maybe work that postsecary might
234be an apprenticeship or or something like that. But but so many of I mean let me just give you an example. Um the public service academy um that's military, that's education, that's maybe city government. I mean, it's a lot of different types of careers that and and I just talked with ASU's public program folks Sunday night and I and I heard them talking about career options and I said, "We have a public service academy." And they're like, "We're in. We want to talk with your students. We want to help them be the new voices in local government." That's that takes not only a college degree, it takes a master's degree. So I I really I really think that we need to stay focused on the we're just out the gate with the college and career
235the college and careermies CCA college and careermies and we want to make sure that they're serving the strengths and needs of our kids and truly readying them for college career and communities. So, let's let's give them a shot and let's hear from people on how they can be improved. >> So, let's let's uh this is I don't want to cut the dialogue off because it's healthy dialogue, but we do need to kind of keep keep moving along. So, um and I'm sorry if you wanted to kind of have another round, but I just I didn't want to I know we have it kind of get another half hour or so left and I want to make sure that you get a chance to interact on the next surveys, too. So, um I just gave you
236the student survey and I'd love to get your feedback on this one next. So, I'll give you 10 minutes to look at it and then we'll have a around Robin about your favorite ones >> and um we'll take a look at the employee one the same thing and if you can go ahead and jot down your favorites and make a list and then we can collect that afterwards or you can send it by email um so that we can make sure that we get through the remaining remaining two surveys. Okay. All right. So, starting now. Thank you. You found popsicle sticks. Good job. Let me just raise a point about this one. Actually, I'm so glad you mentioned that. So, the student survey, just so you know, we are um we do not we do
237not keep the student ID with the record of the of this particular survey. That's the plan is to not track the student ID this year so that we don't have their um so what they'll do is they'll go in they'll sign in with their user with their ID number and and month and we use that to pull in automatically their grade level their school and and to assign to an external record that the student has taken the survey. So at the end they only have they can only take it once. So they can't kind of go back through and through and through and kids like to kind of reuse the they pass around each other student IDs. So we want to try and also the principles need to know how who who who do we
238still need to give the survey to who are we missing and also we want to try to make it a waste we want to make it possible to to kick kids out whose parents don't want them to take the survey to so they can't take so then that's why we're collecting a student ID but it's not actually when they finish a survey it gets deleted from their record through a workflow so that they so that the the response remains confidential. >> Yeah. And that deletion of the record through the workflow makes it extremely difficult to ask open-ended questions of students. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Because if they self-report something like for instance suicidal ideiation on a survey on an open-ended field, we as a school system are responsible for. So, when we make it anonymized
239is all I need to I'm trying to say to you that I want to encourage you like us as asking open-ended questions is very difficult because we can't go back and track if they self-report an issue that we're statutoily responsible for being obligated to respond to. And also another big problem is you don't want to give the kid the hope that they've been able to share something thinking that you're tracking it and like okay if I say this this is my chance for someone to help me and then you don't have but they don't know that you don't have any way to to find out who they are. So you want to make sure that if they're going to tell somebody that they tell at the right place not here. So that's the idea behind
240that. >> My bigger concern was uh if if students were concerned about like let's say that they really had negative feelings about CCA >> uh and that they were concerned about answering honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> It's going to be connected directly to Justin who hates CCA and now >> Yeah. Right. Yep. >> they're going to be targeted. >> Mhm. >> Yep. Okay. So, that's uh most of you got through that. That's good to see. >> All right. >> Not quite. >> Okay. And uh just for our board members, uh we're happy to collect any additional feedback uh through email to Dr. Stum and Dr. Gibbs um through the end of next week. Mhm. >> So, um if you didn't get a chance to go every through everything or you want a chance to
241go through it with a little more time on your hands, uh please do so and then uh email them your feedback. >> Okay. So, let's go with our a team over there and member member Hutchinson's team and let me let's ask you what your top item was if you could ask just one. All right. All right. >> Would you like us to return to you? >> Are you ready? >> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> Initially um again, we didn't get through the whole survey, so that's kind of tough to tell. But um I chose um we chose number 12, which is how connected do you feel to the adults at your school? Because one of the things that we have found um um in research and with our own data in Mesa public schools um
242the relationship that that kids have with their teachers in particular impacts their learning. Um and um it seems that the most important thing whenever we have serve they surveyed them is um the relationship that they have with their teachers. So I if it's impacts their learning that much I want to know how they feel about the adult the caring adults that meet with them every day. >> Okay. Okay. Member >> Holden. >> Sorry. My question. My favorite 24. My school helps me develop the skills and knowledge I will need for my future pathway. This is really hard narrowing down my number one. I think I'm going to go with um rigor. Number three. How often do your teachers make you explain your answers? >> Three. Actually, we heard I heard some conversation about those rigor
243items around the around the room. So, >> yeah, I went with rigor number seven. Overall, how high are your teachers expectations of you because I felt like it kind of simplified it and came from a student perspective and how they how they viewed themselves and how they were being challenged. >> And you had you kind of went back and forth between that one and number four. >> Um, number four. >> Number four. >> How likely is it that your teachers will make you keep trying? >> Yeah. interesting >> kind of that resilience part of rigor. >> Um and I also went with rigor uh five and and seven. Um how often do our teachers encourage our students to do their best and to do their best, not somebody else's best. >> All right. All right.
244Well, that's those are the top ones. Um let me see here. Where are we in time? I think we're at 138 141. Um, what we'll do is we'll take we'll look at the last survey item, last survey, which is employees, and then we'll use whatever time is left to kind of debrief from the whole experience together and your kind of main takeaways. So, um, we'll go ahead. I'm going to give you this employee survey and then that one, we had more more questions come in over the weekend from people in the community or the last, I guess, Thursday. So, I I've actually ended up drafting more items on top of that. So, I'm going to pass these out to you as well. So, um be prepared because this kind of a long long set of
245items. Um but, uh let you go ahead and double down on these. >> Dr. Gibbs, I have a quick question on the a student one under subject areas. Are all of those questions going to be included for each one of them or is it just >> Yeah, it's it's the set for all for like you'll get one for math, one for uh the core the core academy and one for elective. And the reason sir, go ahead. No, on each >> on both on both. Yeah, you'll get all set a full set for math, a full set for the core. >> And the the rationale is to kind of bring out okay, what is the disposition across the campuses toward these toward these classes? Okay. So you don't conflate one with the other. >> And are
246we going to have a se is this this isn't just a high school survey, correct? Or is it? >> No, no, this is Oh, I heard you say seven through 12. 7 through 12. The other parents will be all all parents of all ages. >> Okay. >> Um and same thing with employees. It'll be all schools for the employees. All right, I'm going to pass this out. that that's additional items that came in since Thursday. So, I I revised them, try to make try to work with what we had. But just a note about the employee survey, folks. The in the past there's a couple things. One, this you notice you'll notice this one is longer. Um, we try to use this to kind of give our our leaders something to attach to the the
247uh standards for leadership, their peace standards. Um, which is what which is like what you would use for principal effectiveness. And so these items are kind of linked to each of those standards. Um, so it gives our leaders some items that give insight into how the campus is perceiving the leadership of the school. And another thing is we have also done a split for some of these items to allow respondents to talk about the items from the perspective of the school and the district because we've got feedback in the past from teachers who said I wish I could have answered these only about the district or only about the school because I would have done them differently. So that's why you'll see that there's a split there. So I'm going let you go ahead and
248get back to your reading. And the blue the blue text in there is for teachers is for teachers for certified teachers. And so classified employees wouldn't get the items that are in blue um or green for that matter to keep it short for the for the respondent. Okay. So, you have your your notes. We'll go ahead and talk through the top ones and then afterwards we'll kind of take another round to get your high level reflections on how these surveys work. Um, so go ahead and we'll we'll hear from member Hutchinson. Top question. Okay. Um, there's a there's a lot of good ones that could be important. Um, but I think we're going to land on number 10. Um, my work at Mesa Public Schools gives me a feeling of personal accomplishment. Um, I I
249know that when I worked for Mesa Public Schools, um, people didn't necessarily talk about, um, a grade that they would give their school or a grade they give the district, but what they talked about was and encouraged each other to do their the the work and to feel that they had accomplished something. And I think it would have to piggy back with the the the promise um that people feel I mean when they when you choose to work for a public school district, you know, you're not going to get paid what and what you what you're worth. But but personal accomplishment, working with kids and and meeting their strengths and needs and readying them for their futures, that's what drives people. Whether whether they're they're um working in the cafeteria, they're driving a bus, >>
250that that what they do matters and it and it matters in this collective called Mesa Public Schools. So, um I think that's why I landed on number 10. >> Yeah, it makes sense. So, I don't see how you can do an employee survey without asking number 29. I have access to the resources I need to do my job effectively. >> I had that one and I just switched. I was going to do 27. I have the training I need to do my job effectively. >> I agree with my colleagues and I recommended number nine. I would recommend M public schools to people I know is a great place to work. Okay. >> Yeah, I think I like number nine um as well. Uh I would recommend it. Um but I also agree like what I'm
251hearing from teachers is they're they don't have adequate resources. they don't have the training necessary or I mean not from everybody but uh I think and also there the question I am treated with respect I think is important >> okay thank you all right so um keeping on time here so we have about five more minutes left in in our time allotted and I wanted to sort of take and see any kind of high level reflections that you might have on how these surveys work. I have to leave you with this. Uh I'm going to give you one more pass it around. This is kind of showing how these align across how the three surveys align across all the different topics. So you now that you had a chance to see them, you can kind
252of see how they how they sort of fit together. So these are all the items in one location um to see how they fit together. So, member Hudson said, "Did you want to start us?" >> Oh, they >> Yeah, exactly. >> I understand. Understand. It's a lot of a lot of stuff to go through in a very short amount of time. Anybody want to share their thoughts on on these surveys or uh aside from things that you might have already shared with us? First off, this is way too small and I need a mag magnifying glass. But >> that said, um I think it I think the survey piece this spring is going to be um really important for us to get the information we need in order to make continuous improvement. What I've consistently
253heard uh over the last year is we have a lot of stakeholders and shareholders that do not believe they are listened to. They don't believe their input is valued. Making sure that we are focused on the questions that are going to provide them with the ability to feel that they are being listened to and taken. their concerns or challenges or celebrations are uh embraced that they're listened to. That is the uh predominant theme that I have consistently heard as people have reached out to me. Uh even in response to the um college and careermies, we've got to be willing to listen and uh respect Not everyone. We We're not going to be able to meet 100% of what every individual person wants. That's that's not possible. But we should be striving for getting good feedback
254and being willing to listen to it even when it does not align with what we personally individually have as a viewpoint or perspective. We've got to be willing to learn, listen to multiple perspectives, bring in some uh intellectual integrity and courage and say it's okay. We can just we can let's hash this out. It's it's a messy process, but it's very it's an important process if in fact we want to provide the best quality education to our students here and regain the trust of parents and get them to believe once again that Mesa Public Schools is the best option for their children. >> Yeah. Thank you. Do you want to hear something? Okay. >> Okay. Um, is there anything you felt that you It seemed like there was a lot of items that you were
255happy to see there. Were there items that you were looking for that you didn't see? >> There was just one I had which was um addressing the additional workload of teachers in a block schedule where they took on a a larger number of students this year because they were teaching six courses. >> There is one man. >> Yeah. I just wanted to spec I do like the workload one, but specifically under the college and careermies and block schedule because the workload shifted in a way that's different from our elementary engineering. >> Well, at the high school level, I think it's going to be really important that we have some key CCA questions again so that our community feels like they're being listened to, staff, students, and parents. >> Yeah. I' I'd like to I'd like
256to piggyback on what you said. It's got to be about continuous improvement. It it just has to be. And um and I'm again I say at almost every board meeting, what's working, what's not and and I if we can keep that in mind when we're for you know formulating what the survey does look like I I think that would really help us >> with our trajectory forward. >> It it might be it might be that simple. What is working? What's not and listening to all all three groups I think is absolutely essential. Multiple perspectives is absolutely essential. Any other thoughts on what might be missing? There's a lot you can ask, but you see when you're trying to prioritize it down to something that fits with all the other items that you're asking every year
257to all these constituents, a lot of questions we have, we just don't get a chance to ask. So, um, but okay, >> Dr. Gibbs, just to remind the governing board, this is not the end. We don't plan on administering this until right after spring break. And so I I think you know within the next couple weeks we'll give you a deadline. We'll give you a deadline and status right within the next couple weeks take these home ponder them give feedback via our status documents andor if you want to email myself or Dr. Gibbs or Mr. Wing directly because research and eval reports up to Mr. Wing this year. I just know we're available and ready for those conversations. So it doesn't stop. I just don't want you to think like this is it. We still
258have a couple weeks where we can redesign and think about questions. Um and then the final thing to couple that with is you know feedback is important. Uh we have to then take your individual feedback and view it through the group as a whole. And so you know you may have a very very specific question you want to ask and we might frame it just a little differently to marry it with some other person's individual feedback. And just so everyone knows, like part of the process is us listening to several stakeholders and then trying to meld the idea into a good item so that so that we can get your questions answered. So I we we we thought this was the fairest way to go about doing this and uh you know getting governing board
259feedback. So we appreciate your time today. Can I ask one clarifying question that um were I thought I heard earlier um that we got feedback regarding questions from a variety of people ahead of time. Who who did we >> ask? Go ahead. >> Did we ask for parents to submit questions, teachers to submit par who did we ask to submit questions? >> Uh you know I am very active in my role and I've met with several teachers throughout the whole entire district. uh not together as a group, but teachers will email and I will say, "Yeah, meet me for coffee." Or, "Yeah, meet me for lunch. I'll treat you till lunch." And so, some of this is when I'm sitting down with those teachers, I will say to them, "Hey, if you have any ideas
260on survey questions we should be asking in the survey instruments, we administer, send them our way, and then I give them over to Dr. Gibbs." Okay. >> Uh, but if you're bringing up the point, is this something we're going to do with parent counsel as well? I think so. Right. >> I was just going to add that. Yes. Just like the capital uh exercise you did earlier, we're doing with parent council, we're also doing this with parent council and that's next week. So, >> and parent council is uh a really eclectic group across the whole entire district. Correct. >> It is. And um I've been really pleased this year. We've had really high attendance. Um and they've really been giving us really good feedback about our >> I think that's important that getting input like
261what questions do you think are the most beneficial, the most bang for your buck from your perspective? parents are going to look at things differently than uh teachers do. >> Yeah, it was very very helpful to hear. It was very interesting to hear your top items because those might have been different from what I would have thought. Sometimes they actually were, but it was just very helpful to hear the different areas of concern that you have as a team and the value of bringing all those ideas together because any one voice would miss out on the concerns that others expressed. So that's the value of having more than one person at the table is that you get that that combination of different perspectives and values so that you get a survey that speaks to all
262of those concerns. So thank you for taking the time to share today. >> Okay. >> I just had one question. Are we going to address some of these concerns about block schedule and college of careermies through the lens of the budget? Kind of combining what we talked about this morning with some of this feedback that we receive from the community down the road. Um, knowing that some of these structures cost budget and given community feedback, are we going to look at making some choices or having some strategic conversations? The answer to that is uh we need to always triangulate data. Uh, this is another element of data collection. We've already shared with the governing board elements we're seeing from a financial perspective. the adjustment for the 2 sec 6 27 school year to any sort
263of structure we currently have is going to be rather difficult. Um and so what we're hoping is the conversations evolve. We have some summer sessions on this because if we're going to make any adjustments in the continuous improvement process, if we're going to make any adjustments, they kind of have to be made by October of any given school year for the next school year. And the reason the adjustments have to be made by October of the previous school year for the next school year is registration forms go out in November and staffing goes out in December and and and so you have to logistically plan these things out to where they're not happening in the spring because the spring's too late to make adjustments in the continuous improvement process for the next school year. So
264we're trying to be the cabinet team is trying to be super thoughtful about planning out how data comes in and then what year. So you know continuous improvement process 2728 would be the first time to take this feedback within we got to work and triangulate data across the finance and perception data and then outcome data that's a whole another set of outcome data that we need from this year. What are AP scores like? What are ACT scores like? What area at the junior high scores like? take all that data, triangulate and then go, okay, by October, we got to kind of see what our continuous improvement process envelops and what does it look like for 2728. >> Dr. Gibbs, thank you for being here today and going through this with us. Can we turn it
265to you for a minute? >> Uh, yeah, we're just we'll go real quick on this and I'll just ask you to send me your feedback. Um so as we're looking at scheduling um board meetings um through the rest of this school year, we would like to do another study session um end of March, beginning of April. So, if you could send me your availability between March 30th and April 3rd um to do something finishing up on um catapult planning and um >> okay then let's look at the week after that then. So, so if you're not available at all that week, then uh send me the week after. So, April 6th through the 10th, keeping in mind we do have a regular board meeting on the 9th >> for yeah, for uh something very similar
266to what we're doing today. So, it wouldn't be in the evening, it would be during the day. And then um we've also had um some board members show interest in maybe having a lighter schedule this summer. Um so I would also like your feedback on the potential of having one board meeting in June and one in July. Now that would mean we could cancel the June 11th board meeting and have the June 25th and that is based around that we do still have the budget to approve for the year. So, um, keeping those dates in mind, we would need to keep the June 25th one. We would also need to keep the July 9th one, but we could cancel the July 23rd one. So, um, please, uh, share your thoughts with me on that for
267scheduling and we'll keep you up to date on that. Um, and if you have any questions, please let me know. So, just to recap, you we're looking at June due June 25th and then July would be July 23rd. Is that what we're >> I'm sorry, July? >> That would be July 9th. Yeah. So, >> so those that's we're looking at those two meetings. >> Yes. >> Keeping those. >> Yeah, it would be back to back. >> Okay. Thank you. And thank you board members and superintendency for being here today. Um, I think that comes to the end. Do I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second it. >> Any discussion? Seeing none, um, Miss Castro, will you take our vote? Or Cameo? Oh,
268Miss Miss Kirio, Miss Kirby, will we please take our Miss Kirby, will we please take our vote? Rachel Walden votes I. How am I going to see? I can't see. Marcy Hutchinson says, "I With a vote of five, yes, the meeting is adjourned at 2:10. Thank you.