001welcome to the September 18 2018 City Planning Commission meeting I'll start the meeting with a roll call Commissioner Mills Commissioner Gabe Randall here commissioner woods Commissioner Trudeau commissioner Weatherby here commissioner Ackerman yes Commissioner Milstein here commissioner sauvé you have a quorum thank you sorry mr. Briggs we are all here do we have any introductions this evening doesn't quite get approval of agenda we have one minor change in our agenda for this evening and that is under five minutes of previous meeting we do not have the June 1920 18 meeting so I will strike that and do I have a commissioner we'll move it the agenda as amended commissioner woods seconded by Commissioner Mills any discussion all those in favor please say aye opposed our agenda is approved moving on to minutes of previous meeting we
002have the minutes from October 17 to 2017 meeting like to move from where the basic and by Commissioner Ackerman any discussion changes please say aye opposed all right moving on to reports from city administration City Council Planning Manager Planning Commission officers and committees written communications and petitions and we will first start with our city council representative Commissioner Ackerman Thank You mr. chair city council met last night on the agenda we discussed transportation plan as many of us know this body is responsible for facilitating the master planning process that the city undergoes with some regularity a major element of our master plan is our transportation plan which helps set vision for for how people will get around an arbor into the future we are moving forward with hiring a premier consulting firm Sam Schwartz consulting out
003of New York City so it's gonna be an exciting year or two as we put together this plan looking towards many more modes of transportation than we ever have before as well as developments in the autonomous space so very much an exciting time for transportation policy and a much needed update after ten years in addition to that site-specific actions 151 Hoover near the Michigan Stadium was approved last night the cottages at Barton green on Pontiac trail was denied last night and with respect to the library lot in line with the sales agreement that was that was approved by City Council in April of 2017 City Council last night approved covenants for both workforce housing requirements as well as our parking permit agreement thank you moving on to our well councilmember Ackerman just basically gave what
004I was going to say about the petitions last night so I had no further report thank you any Planning Commission officers and committees they'd like to report mr. Gibb Randall I am the partner to the DDA's Committee for their their partners who represent many different facets the city and piggybacking on commissioner Ackerman's points about transportation the AATA will be doing a big re-evaluation of all of their routes next year so that we'll be feeding in and as we are you know really focusing on thinking about transportation routes and where we're placing our development that has some that has some bearing on that so just to know that that's all coming and that if there are things that we're seeing where there's pressures and things like that that we're hearing from people that come and speak
005to us in addition to where we're putting higher density because they're on transportation route it pertains to us so next year is their big year for that Thank You mr. woods I just have a question either for Commissioner Ackerman or the other other commissioners and that is do you can you give us an update on the birds which have recently come to our town by that I'm talking about those sorry it's funny you asked that because we've been getting City Council's been getting a lot of emails about the chimney Swifts which are species that have moved into 415 West Washington's chimney and are becoming our edging closer to becoming an endangered species unfortunately but the birds scooters yes I am happy to thinking of an update the city will allow use of the birds in
006the public right-of-way for the time being the only element of our ordinance that I believe the bird scooters are violating is with respect to the storage in the public right-of-way for the time being until the transportation commission and ultimately City Council can address how best to deal and regulate with this matter the city will only confiscate scooters that are walking city sidewalks and and violating the ad8 and we are actively in communication with their regional representative to work out an agreement through which we can build a legal relationship and set some parameters okay thank you any other commissioners have any thing they'd like to discuss in C no I'm moving on to written communications we have some written communications that arrived in our packet so can you take a look at that moving on to
007audience participation at this time any persons wishing to address the city City Planning Commission in regards to an item that is not on the agenda this is your opportunity to step forward and address the Commission you'll have three minutes is there anyone who'd like to address the Planning Commission regards to a petition or in regards to anything that is not going to be a public hearing later on this evening seeing no one jumping up we will move on to public hearing scheduled for our next meeting and miss Thatcher there's one public hearing scheduled for October - that's the 132 Hill Street multi-family residential site plan for city council approval its proposals to construct an 11,000 600 square foot five unit multi-family dwelling in an hour for C zoning district thank you moving on to unfinished
008business 617 Packard Street special exemption use permit and say plan for City Planning Commission approval miss Thatcher as you all remember this was postponed from last the last meeting we were waiting for some more information to go back and forth about the traffic review from staff and the petitioners but things have all been worked out now this sites on the north side of Packard Street between Hill and Arbor it's in the Triangle it's zoned c1 a campus business district which allows medical marijuana provisioning centers with a special exception use approval which is what this petition is for it's a 1879 square-foot site it's a very small site with a - unit currently - unit building with 2112 square feet of floor area one Class B in one class a bicycle I'm sorry one Class B
009and Class C that is a typo bicycle parking spaces are proposed along the northwest side of the building and behind the building and there are no other changes to the site that are proposed by the petitioner here is the triangle on an aerial view if we zoom in you can see the site right here it's currently occupied by the pastry peddler on the little storefront on the sort of southerly end and upstairs is PJ's used records which actually closed this summer permanently next door is Alibaba which may not be called that anymore Baba dari thank you they recently had a large real revamp remodel and to the south is a package store liquor store a couple of photos there's the pastry peddler so there's a door to this suite downstairs if you go up a
010couple stairs you can get into what used to be a house and has been retail for many years and right now this rips are on the house the building there's a there's a ramp here one of the bike parking spaces is proposed to go start up on the bottom of this ramp and the other one is proposed to go around the back of the building this is the proposed site plan there's existing trash receptacles storage on the side and in the back this is that ramp that we talked about here's where the bike parking space would go for the Class B which is covered under an awning and the Class C is in the back it's intended more for employee use let me go over some of the staff comments so the site is more
011than 600 feet from any other provisioning center the map is at the end of the staff report if you'd like to see it and it's more than a thousand feet from any K to 12 school all of the required documentation has been provided the sites at the center of the Packard Hill State Triangle surrounded by retail businesses and restaurants it's really a Destry and centered black there is no parking on this site obviously there is street parking on the meters on both side of Packard and on state and on Hill but there is no lot specifically for this business the the traffic city traffic engineer had some concerns about this which were adequately addressed this area is a tough area for pedestrian vehicle crashes especially and it will be studied next year using a federal
012grant and the petitioners have been responsive by promising to do things like provide bus passes to their employees put in the extra bike hoops that they can try to keep them from having to drive in and but really it's a it's a sort of a pedestrian centered retail location planning staff leaves at the intensity and character of the business is compatible with the block and surroundings or mostly walk up foot traffic sidewalks are in good condition there are no natural features on the site and this would be Medical Marijuana provisioning only staff has not received any concerns from surrounding neighbors and the proposed hours are 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Saturday and noon to 7:00 p.m. on Sunday and that concludes staffs report thank you at this time I'd like to open public
013hearing on this petition is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission regards to this petition please step up to the podium you'll have three minutes to speak unless you're the petitioner you will have five minutes hi my name is I'm corrington and this is my company QPS michigan holdings I just wanted to give a brief introduction I live here in Ann Arbor with my wife and my two children I've been here for a long time I went to undergrad and to law school at the University of Michigan this company QPS Michigan has now been approved at the state level for licensing we're excited to have this opportunity thank you for taking the time today I have Rob and Tom from Midwestern here who can answer any questions about the site
014plan Brian as well as who's been advising us on the operational side we're happy to answer any questions that you have thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission erases this petition hi good evening Brian fennec on behalf of the petitioner once again I'd just like to thank you all for taking the time to review this petition and we'd like to thank staff as well for all the hard work that went into it this was an irregular type of a project I think in terms of location and staff was really responsive with the petitioner and with the other consultants on resolving these issues so thank you all thank you is there anyone else in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one I
015will close the public hearing and read the motion the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission after hearing all interested persons and reviewing all relevant information including an accompanying site plan finds a petition substantially meet the standards in Chapter 55 Ann Arbor unified development code section 5 29.5 special exemption use and section 5.1 6.3 G medical marijuana facility and therefore approves the 617 Packard Street special exemption use for marijuana for medical marijuana petitioning center this approval is based on the following findings 1 the proposed use will beacon assent with the ce-1 a campus business district which provides neighborhood shopping for the university oriented population and includes retail establishments offices personal services theaters and in ball parlors to the proposed use will not adversely impact traffic pedestrians bicyclists circulation or Road intersection based on road intersections based on
016the location Packard Street provides access to the site and the proposed use is consistent with the surrounding uses traffic use traffic impact 3 through documentation submitted by the petitioner regarding waste disposal and then Tory tracking security and other methods of operation of the facility the positioning center will be operated in the matter that will not have an adverse impact on the neighboring properties or area and will not have a detrimental impact on natural features the special exemption use approval is based on the following conditions 1 the petitioner obtaining and maintaining both a seed of michigan medical marijuana license and a city of Ann Arbor medical marijuana permit and providing documentation to the planning services within three years of the City Planning Commission approval of date of this petition to the petition the petitioner operating a
017medical marijuana business at this address within three years of the City Planning Commission approval of this petition 3 the petitioner will install bicycle parking on the site as shown on sheet force a plan of the plan set by October 31st 2018 for the special exemption use may occupy no more than 2112 square feet of the entire building 5 the petitioner will maintain operating hours of 10:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday and 12:00 p.m. to 7 p.m. Sunday and and that the planning sorry and that the Ann Arbor Planning Commission approves the attached they plan which demonstrates compliance with applicable special exemption use standards and no physical development of the property is proposed to have a commissioner they'll move Commissioner Mills seconded by Commissioner of U Brando we are now in discussion Commissioner Mills
018thank you not sure if this is this is maybe an engineering question so I am all about bicycle parking that's usually the thing that I ask I'm curious though if the bicycle parking on the ramp is going it's going to leave enough ramp left over for ATA compliance yes it will and also on the the Rob Wagner with the Midwestern consulting also we are putting a stop behind the bicycle so it doesn't roll down the ramp and building up a platform level so that the bicycle stays there but yes it will be they have the width for um a DA access so is it how's that gonna work yep and we have a detail on our on our safe plan sheet but it's a hoop it's fastened to the there's bolts that fasten it to
019the wood ramp yep got it so it would be two bicycles the business right gonna be right up against the building presumably to lead it leave enough room so it's only one bicycle that's perfect no to two could two could fit there yep to two bicycles could fit there yep in there and we and we're only required one bicycle hoop and we're providing two so one one additional who episode two additional spaces and then I was actually thanks for coming to this screen because I was gonna ask about the bicycle loop around the back and like it's I think that makes a lot of sense if there's door there and there is so that's fantastic yep and there's it I don't know if you can zoom out but there's the detail it's kinda on the
020right side of the sheet as well so what okay we're good thank you thank you Commissioner of your Brandel stay up if you could so I know we have a distorted view but I guess the first question is as a biker it would be a whole lot easier to park in the right-of-way well is there any discussion about with staff about potentially you know staying out of the main pathway but there's plenty of bike hoops that are in the right-of-way and in throughout the downtown and it would be way more well easier for a biker to use that was there ever any discussion around having that as an option rather than it being completely around the corner and out of the way and something that nobody's really going to notice I could hear it but
021I could start by saying we went recently went through the Glen hotel and we're asked to move the bike hoops out of the right away so I guess I began that way but we be happy to had at a bike hoop in the right away if that's what the Planning Commission was like this is out of the DDA correct correct because I know they have some standards around some of that and so I don't want to tread on any of that and perhaps mrs. Thatcher you have some thoughts on what makes sense here it it's something that we could look into but like the Glen which is also outside of the DDA it's a little different than inside the TV right just a little bit easier for placing stuff in there right away right I
022don't want to hold things up it's more that it just seems not very intuitive as a biker then the other people could you go go back to the I know who's controlling that's me that's you um so typically I have a hard time seeing how it's gonna be - because it needs to be four feet wide if it's - because you need two feet on either side and when I see the dimensioning of the walkway further up it only says it's two feet wide I could see it being next to because you can't the hoops are usually four feet apart with two feet of parking on either side you can actually get your bike in there right so how would you have enough leftover space there to be able to have a hoop and two
023bikes I mean I would think one would be able to be fastened unlike the north side of the hoop and one fastened on the south side kind of staggered like you would on a bike rack on the back of a car so in other words it's you don't have two feet on either side there isn't a four foot pad there for it that is separate from the the pathway because otherwise that thing would be at least seven feet wide you know because it needs to be at least three the pepero needs to be at least three and we have enough room in the ramp if that is an issue we could put a second hoop in the ramp and we could provide for two bikes that it's not even that I think you should do
024more or less it's more just just being real about how many bike parking spots you actually have because I see this and think it's really one not two the way the detail is shown and the way it's represented on the site plan it's 108 is one yeah okay yeah so if you're saying it's one then I'm cool with that I just think that it's really not too because it would need to be four feet wide as somebody who uses these things you can't we are only required one in stating where that's nice I just think like be real about what it is and if it's one and that's what you're required then that's that's okay again I don't necessarily want to hold things up I just want to make sure that it's done in a
025way that that makes sense for people to be able to use it so yes ma'am and then the other pieces I don't quite get where the entry is for you are you taking over the the bakery both both spaces the the entrances will stay the same so we'll have the both both entrances so we're taking over both the the bakery and the record store there is 20 it says 2,100 square feet of space QPS Holdings is only finishing out at this time for 1400 of that which is the ground level which the ground and ground ground level in the mid mid level so then people will be using generally speaking people will be using the the current bakery entrance as the way to get in and out that'll be the entrance and there'll be the
026check in there and then the the kind of mid-level up will be where the showroom is there's an exit from that from that area as well so they would exit out of a separate entrance okay I just didn't quite get how that was working already that's it you know further discussion mr. breaks in the general use for the area I was wondering and I think you may have just answered the question on this one but is that their ramp intended to be used for ATA purposes in terms of wheelchair access or is that because I was noticing that it seems to be an area where a lot of trash cans are being stored as well so how's that what is that entry used for yeah I mean if you had the different view you would
027see there's the width you know at least three feet that would provide for barrier-free access on that this side of the the trash cans and we're not we're not actually proposing that many refuse containers that you see that they're using right now yeah I don't we wouldn't create that level of garbage on a regular basis I'm not sure why there's so many there but people we would be creating a lot less I believe we have a separate trash enclosure right over there Jannik we're showing two we're showing two containers yeah on sheet four different there talk to cut up towards the building to leave the access on the side what's the purpose of that entryway what where's that lead it just leads to the back of the property no customers would be using it there
028is that bike hoop back there but all the customers be using those front two entrances mr. woods so if I could just follow up that entrance that we're looking at right now that will be a DA accessible correct but you're saying that all customers will use the front entrance which is down on the street where it's like someone sitting yeah what we've contemplated is putting a lift between that lower level and and internally leading up to the top if somebody needed a DA access I'm not sure if that door and that ramp will be a DA compliant I'm not sure we haven't I don't know if we've done that level of detail look at it but we have contemplated an internal lift to bring people up to that that mid level so when you say
029you've contemplated I think part of what we need to at least I need to be able to understand is how folks who need that access when you say you're contemplating that's something you might do in the future we'll do it now we're having that the space designed on the interior yet top top don't probably get into some of those if you can go back to the site plan real quick Jill so there's a number of accesses to the building right there parallel with Packard there's the existing building entrance that's at the first level then the by level entry is at the ramp or the door there with the stairs and landings so we think that the landing with the stairs and the ramp were to service the user that currently had that record store area
030so it had their barrier free and stepped non barrier free access then there's also a door on the back near where the back parking bike parking is so that door the door on the ramp would be used for loading and unloading and then customers would enter parallel to Packard and then have a lift or ramp internal to the building that would get them to that buy level spot so it's actually once you get inside the building it's the mid level or by level floor where someone would actually get checked in that sort of things that checking on the grounds up then you go upstairs the correct and in order to get upstairs you'll have a lift or something for people who are ADA a correct and how will how will folks who might need the
031ABA components how will they know about that if they're just coming down the sidewalk how does that usually work what is do you have plans for a signage or anything like that their main door with their business name would be on the door too Packard welcoming saying entrance on it okay and then would you have something that would indicate with a sign or something to go side or something I'm trying to understand this if you were a customer of the of QPS Holdings you would enter the door at Packard which is zero grade 88 Oh capable and then if you're in there and you're moving to the next by level part there would either be a lift or a small internal ramp that you would use like a hall ramp to get to that second
032level all right and then there would be you know the ramp would serve as an emergency exit if needed okay so that there's two rows thank you and so miss that year I guess we don't normally go into detail about the setup inside of the building okay okay I don't know that we've had many that had this sort of second level part to it and that will be that excess will be required by building code before they can get a certificate of occupancy okay so a wheelchair user or someone else would have to would have to have that access before the business could open okay and so is that then something that's just going to be covered where it's or where would where would it indicate that on their on our motion it means just
033that well our motion says that they are required to obtain a city of Ann Arbor medical marijuana permit in order to get a permit you must have a certificate of occupancy okay all right yeah thank you and I just I've engaged a local architect who's working on that plan from Hobson black who's pretty familiar with the city who will make sure that we'd meet all the requirements in terms of a DA and access and all those things and if I made just two just a electric ihcafe and that that multilevel provisioning center just like with that one as well until they if they do decide to use the lift or if they find that it's it's more convenient for them to provide a small dispensing area for people who would require to have you know
034would normally require a lift then they would obviously use that you know technique as well as opposed to having them to have to go upstairs just bringing it down to them as long as there's a secure and private area for that to occur on the ground floor okay so fairly disappointed in the disappearance of pastry peddler but which is the closest to my office but one of the questions I had was one of the things that you see a lot is although you have no parking Bava dairy does have what looks like quite a lot of parking for the average person and I know that they are very particular about that parking because they use it and that's kind of they count on it have you spoken with them or talk to them or encouraged
035or kind of made it clear to are you gonna make it clear to your patients that there will be no parking there because I can see that being a big yeah I think well yeah I will put some kind of signage that effect and I think will notify people we're hopefully gonna have a good relationship with our neighbors that's the intention so you have a will will be extra focused on that yeah cuz I just think that could be a you know in our hope is that hopefully most of our customers will be coming from the immediate vicinity that's the expectation so and then I think along with the traffic being discussed in the future like the pedestrian and that is a big problem and and people go straight across and I imagine you'll get
036that same you know people coming from the neighborhood coming straight across rather than going to one of the lights all I see um and just again if you can kind of just tell people that that's probably not the best until I assume somehow that will be dealt with when the city is but I that that's a that's a big problem right there and pastry peddler didn't help that cuz a lot of people would run across the street and sure my characters wanna yeah and campus corner door is right there too so that's just another it's not I mean it's not your fault but sure no it's a consideration it just kind of thing I think one thing also that's being discussed alongside the plan that was that was thought out with with regards to traffic
037and with the traffic engineer but also to when there's there's some marketing things that they want to incorporate as well that will make it more attractive to people who live you know within the general vicinity people who show a bus pass people who come in on a bird you know and just be able to kind of go hey today's you know today's you know bike bike in day or you know kind of went walk-in Wednesday and allow those people you know kind of build the building like that build that sense of walkability through promotions and things of that nature and also whether engaging them they have an opportunity to tell them hey you know cross the crosswalk please don't cross don't run across here and I don't think that when you look at the I
038think that while they're next to campus corner they won't have the same clientele as campus corner and I think that the people who will be you know the patients who will be using this facility and their clients will be a little bit of a little bit more mature age and probably a little bit less likely to you know want to play Frogger States traitor Packard and you do have the parking spots right in front so that's right and in fact believe it or not my Barber's around the corner and he does my beard all times a day usually if I you know if you do want to drive there I've had I don't know maybe I have extremely good luck but I've always found that there's been a parking spot or a meter available and
039I mean I'm talking Saturday morning the barber shop is full and you know every morning I find a spot and I'm just kind of like Oh must be my day but I guess not if the other people died so I guess I'm not that lucky but point being is you know there there are other parking spots out in front but they want to encourage local traffic and foot traffic any other discussion commissioner get Brandel so I don't want to beat a dead horse but I'm confused by something when I look at your site plan I see ramp and I see two lines on either side of it then I see a section where the bike hoop parking is going to be and then it narrows quite a bit and I see a door could you
040go to the photo that shows the side of that building to me that looks like the ramp goes all the way up to the edge of that corner so does that mean that your bike hoop is on the ramp itself like it is at an angle yeah but our site plan shows that we have a stop behind it and we're building up a platform to make it level so planning staff did catch that and we addressed it by so you're making Josh the bike hoop level or the bike pad level yeah we're building kind of like a level landing for the bike hoop so how do you get the bike up to the level landing you just lift lift it up on there you lift it up yeah the the ramp is roughly eight feet
041around so if you were riding your bike you'd stop at the ramp wheel it up set it and lock it up so ramp in the bike space yeah a level like that so you'd wheel it up and walk it to the hoop okay this just seems awfully convoluted like isn't can we just put up a fight hoop on this street out there it just seems in trouble as it wouldn't be a Class B which is required trying to accommodate the Class B code requirement putting it under the awning I mean the other opportunity would be to slide it further down we we only have two of the two of the you see how there's four right containers we're only having two containers of that spot so where those two black containers are where it's flat
042we could slide it down the wall there it's not even the issue for me it's more just that I don't think as a cyclist that I'm gonna go around the corner and think that there's a ramp with the face right there and so again like you know I don't want to stop you guys up but it just seems like geez in order we just have a bike hoop in that you know not in the main pathway but it was what 11 feet wide the sidewalk was there 11 something you know can there be one that's parallel between those two parking meters yeah you know just I don't know it just feels we can do it anybody else feels really because it just it it feels so counterintuitive to go around the corner of a ramp
043to use as a cyclist and I think it's great that you all are doing a bike hoop I just would like to see it something that's more used there's no street tree there there's nothing else in the way you can't like put a wheelchair down through there anyway because you already have the parking meters there could we just move it around the corner so it goes in the right of way and area that you know it's 11 feet it's worse another place yes actually there's already things in the way anyway yes I think and we're discussing here I think that we get so caught up in these projects with what we you know like should do we don't think about like what what we could do and I mean we're standing here and we're just
044like why don't we just do both I mean a Class A or Class B is required yeah so we'll put the Class B in the most you know appropriate place on the side but then also go above and beyond and say this is not required but let's just do one on the street as well wherever it conforms and I think that that if that were a condition I don't think that that would be something that would be to put a bike coop in the public right away requires a license agreement and a lot of time and effort from the City Attorney's Office to create the agreement and everything but I think we have an opportunity can you go back to the site plan real quick do you see all the buildings that's kind of with
045a sliver of land between the building and the right away yes if we could attach you know they make the hoops the steps I'm gonna say it's like a garden hose yeah older if we could attach something there we would at least get one bike parking spot there and it would be a dimension likely I don't know what are they usually 12 inches 18 inches off of the wall which would fit in that section the outside of the right away and could be usable by you have your six foot clear you know what I'm saying in terms of that along the walk in terms of it ready exactly then I think that sounds great you know they happen because I get it I got again I don't want to hold you guys up and I
046understand that that takes a lot of doing but it would be it's you see so many bikes chained to trees and things like that in this area and go before like if you're encouraging people to get there in that way then I think it would be great to have an option and if you see between between the window and the brick there would be a pretty good spot for I mean the the tables and chairs wouldn't be there obviously but yeah right like to get the Class B we need that covered overhang and so that would just be the condition that we need to find a space for it but I think it sounds like additional is part of the support of the business so I'm in support of the project in that regard in
047terms of other things that we usually cover we talk about ours operations pretty often and I would just say that this aligns with everything on the block so I'm in support relative to that sure consistently check the boxes that we usually discuss to make sure that it's good I think yeah I support kind of and it sounds like the business supports the additional exploration I don't want to hold you guys up but to have that kind of desire for you to do it would be great to see mr. Ackerman Thank You mr. chair miss Thatcher do you have a recommendation for to add a sixth condition just spell out a hypothetical bike hoop not contained in the site plan yeah I'm struggling with it a little bit because I'm concerned that the bike hoop will
048go on private property but the bike will be on the sidewalk so I hate to make it a condition of approval because it might not be possible could it be explored mm-hmm yeah yeah goodsoon effort yeah right so I would move to amend the motion to add a sixth condition I would say the petitioner will work with city staff to explore the possibility of adding an on wall bike hoop parallel to Packard do we have a second random any discussion on the amendment commissure woods so just since this is a special exception use does that putting that bike hoop against this private property does that mean that that stays with it forever or for how long yeah it's it's a nominal site improvement that would be expected to remain okay and so what do we
049have are we setting precedent by doing that or what well because you seem hesitant and I know that this is what I like in one the spot kind of idea which has come to us which is important but I don't want to really start making too many changes and then realize down the road that didn't really work even though we thought it would the way the amendment is worded to explore the possibility of an on wall by coupon record I think it doesn't necessarily hold them to the requirement that it being installed if if I go up to city engineering tomorrow and they say no you can't do that that's not an appropriate place for the bike because it's in the public right-of-way we wouldn't want the bikes over there instead then we can start
050talking about well then let's put it over there you know but I I think that this is worded correctly to start a discussion about it and well not necessarily requiring something that we're not sure can be installed okay sure so that I guess the counter is if we if we go back to a study with the city and are sure that it's okay does that language actually require it to then be implemented the condition just requires the exploration and not the requirement if the exploration shows that it's feasible and also if I may add to the contrary if it's not feasible you know to just have language and then it says I mean one way or another that it's you know the exploring language is a bit vague and I think it couldn't be to
051some interesting fired move what I hope is a friendly amendment to the amendment the padishah is her condition six proposed conditions sakes the petitioner will explore sorry the petitioner will work with city staff to explore the installation of an on wall bicycle parking spot parallel to Packard and with appropriate staff approvals install such parking bicycle parking can we shoot you down into the belly which include be feasible that Thank You Shannon chimed in with their as I would supported thank you alright any further discussion on the amendment I think I got the feasible in the right place just six petitioner will work with staff to explore the installation of an on wall by coupon Packard and if feasible and with appropriate staff approvals install it right further discussion on the amendment all those in favor
052of the amendment please say aye aye opposed we're back to the main motion further discussion on the motion all those in favor please say aye opposed thank you thank you very much all right moving on to our regular business which is approval Planning Commission actually sorry regular business 10a the proof of Planning Commission subcommittees and designee z' and we have chart that's here alright so I will read the motion the Ann Arbor City Planning Commission hereby approves Planning Commission committee assignments as presented including elimination of the Allen Creek Greenway committee as designee doe commissioner that move was moved by mr. Mill's seconded by Commissioner Weatherby I'm happy to discuss now touch your brakes I sent out a message earlier today but if there's anybody trying to hop off a full are seeing of that was
053kind of a hard sell last time I have thought about it and I'm willing to so that is great news because I wasn't supposed to be in the FRC a I think I've given it up to somebody else so we can just take me off of it and put you on it unless somebody else wants to jump on this point I'm sure so then I'll stay on or see but I'd like to be added a master planning I think that was a Miss from what we agreed during working session we will add you to master planning and put your nose I look over because I don't have a copy over here I think does that not put five of us on the master planning and so I think I volunteered to step off with master
054planning thank you thank you anybody else all right so just bring us up to speed commissioner Briggs is now on the o.r c-- commissioner mills is no longer on the master plan review commissioner Mel shine is no longer on ordinance revisions and commissioner so away is now on the master plan review is that correct any further discussion all right all those in favor please say aye opposed all right thank you moving on to attend be approval proposed work scope for evaluation and recommendations on downtown building design process I don't know a whole lot of background on this I said that City Council directed the Planning Commission to come up with a proposal for the design review process and this is the first draft it's very tweakable if you guys want to change anything before forwarding
055it to City Council I don't know how many concerns there are about it or if this is just a first step and changeable in the future discussion and I'm sorry miss Thatcher if you don't know or if this isn't yet determined would the price tag give planning and building services budget or would you be looking I do you know where that budget I don't want to live that's my understanding okay and now that's unrestricted funds I do not know that okay I would say I think you guys put together a really beautiful scope of work I think this is really comprehensive and we provide a lot of value it ultimately when making budget decisions and looking for trade-offs it's a large price tag and I feel like there's so much more pressure from the community
056to reexamine zoning and engagement process and design standards in neighborhoods more than there is downtown these days and so it would be oh I love the word product the price tag is just it is what it is I wonder if there's a way it says to you know review the downtown guidelines but part of the evaluation is to assess kind of background feedback from other communities and reports and so if the report could that we request that the study actually does a city wide report of the Design Review guide recommendations not just for the downtown design to do so that we have like a holistic report back to look at even if all isn't implemented for the design review process so we're getting more information out of that study I think that would be a
057substantial increase in the amount of work but if specifically do you wanna be - if we're the five to ten comparison communities based on size of community physical development pattern of community and market comparison right evaluation of voluntary process and codified design requirements via examples of benchmark communities and best practices if if that effort happens to define on what you know the city instead of a district within the city I might be open to you know figuring out what that definitive bound is that that's already an effort to look at example cities and so I'm not sure that would actually be additional work but it might be additional information for us to work with Commissioner Brandon work because the design guidelines are specifically for downtown and downtown downtown's really different than how we do everything
058else and the design review board only looks at downtown as it is right now so I think that is thinking I think it would be great but I think it's a huge scope scope change because this is contained for our kind of our high-rise zones basically and what I hear commissioner Ackerman saying is that like the stuff that we've been hearing about is up from a lot of neighborhoods too and there are reactions to things we haven't had as much straight downtown development in the last like two years there's been some but there hasn't been as much and I think the the more kind of controversial projects have been things that are further out and we've had some but it's I think that it would be a big scope change to look at the zoning
059and we don't have the same kind of design requirements for the neighborhood's as we do for the downtown there's all kinds of really specific things around go for floors you have to step back and but yeah I mean there's all kinds of things that just don't exist for the others so I think it'd be tricky to add that on to this at this stage of the game yeah it's right to clarify I wasn't trying to necessarily up the Pandora's box of trying to regulate design you know in outlying areas right that increases costs and increases time and ultimately all that is passed along to home buyers and renters I think I was just saying I I don't feel the it was since this body recommended to City Council implementing some design requirements and City Council
060passed that I think the quality of the downtown developments we're seeing now are higher I think also that there is a you know learning curve with the community and downtown development isn't as controversial as it once was I mean I think if we've approved multiple developments on South University North Main Street South Main Street here on Parkway or not here here on none of which brought out terrible amount of of community angst I think the last one that was particularly controversial was like 6:15 South Main and and so I just you know in making budget decisions which is ultimately City Council's responsibility this just seems like a large price tag for a problem I'm not positive as still as great as it once was mr. Mill's I appreciate that Commissioner like that kind of background
061and putting it in context I think that's right this request was made to us I think like in July so I don't think that things have resolved themselves since July maybe it's more like the idea and councils as perhaps as a sticker shop you know that it would be a super cheap thing and at least what we discussed that I think mr. Leonard has appropriately put in here at that place there has been at some point and probably even in the last couple of months some inks that there are maybe of the buildings in town right and so but what we discussed this networking session but to be kind of on the record about our sense that the Commission was that we you know if other places are not getting ugly buildings we need to
062find comparable their places and figure out what it is there that they're doing and so that's not I think that among the reasons that the sticker price is what it is is both you have to figure out what it is that you don't like here like articulate what's ugly and was not only another place then find those comps and I think that I would imagine that that's where that Christ had come from so just to let the public know like that wasn't that was part of our discussion is that all of those steps which are I think what out and lots of good bullets here are part of what we see is this effort that you can't just look only at Ann Arbor it really requires me elsewhere and I mean so yeah it is
063it is a big price tag and I think that you're absolutely right but I don't I don't know that it's worth it because that's maybe not the biggest concern that a lot of neighborhoods do have that I'm associated with and city council did ask us for - to have us take a look at it and come up with a scope of what it would take to evaluate it so I think that's what the Commission is doing here and we're sending that message City Council ultimately where it falls with the budgetary needs and City Council to review and approve just a process question would voting for this affirmative ly simply 7-2 munication to City Council or would it also come with a resolution directing you to issue an RFP I think what were the the resolutions
064for an hour a few had to come forms they so I think this is just voting to you know if City Council asks us to look at our process and we're going back to them with we're happy to look at it but this is what its gonna require okay then I think you people did an amazing job and I'm grateful for that Commissioner breaks I think based on the working session the other piece that's raising the cost of this is specifically the community engagement outcomes of this that there's a lot built in to be gaining community feedback on perceptions of downtown development and to do a lot of different get feedback from a lot of different stakeholders and that the implementation recommendations suggest that the project scope is to lead to likely increase likelihood of
065positive community perception so it's because of that increased concern around community engagement I think that's built into this process and increasing the cost I know talking to a consultant recently they were talking about the very big differences in communities that want that community engagement versus those who don't and the cost of of those projects the only thing that I saw in terms of just may be needing a tweaking the second bullet point and background I don't know if I'm the only one I don't know if it's the comma placement I don't quite know what that bullet point is saying it may just be me but others are can you clarify which second bullet point under background review of D 1 and D 2 zoning development standards , and design review ordinance implementation and subsequent amendments
066parenthesis including publicly stated intentions Ida it's just it may just be me it just feels a little clunky if others are reading that prying through just skip that note but just going down to bullet point 1 8 where we do talk about the comparison communities and maybe this is getting back to the to an earlier comment by one of the commissioners that that is it clear that we're going to be looking at those five to ten communities design review ordinances or what have you for their downtown areas because I think that's important and do you think that this the way we've worded it will will indicate that I think with the scope of D 1 D 2 and and what I'm saying is that the comparison communities that were looking at if they don't they
067may call it d1 or d2 I don't know what they call it but it would be important because we will probably we could go off and find ourselves out there in that residential where we get a lot of feedback and just as one of the commissioners said earlier but we do want to keep it fairly focused so if that's clear that's fine mr. Mill's perhaps to clarify that a little bit more the sub bullet underneath there where it starts include examples of design items we could say of downtown design outcomes just to make it clear that we're not talking about those five to ten communities as a whole for the just for the examples - I appreciate the missionary Mills point please say downtown or urban area just think I mean if there's a way
068that they do outside of their main commercial core they do urban design well I'm still interested in that mr. key Randall has something to say I think different communities define these areas differently and so it's tricky I think in terms of sort of where urban versus you know so I think if it's clear that we're reviewing our downtown design guidelines and these are in reference to that into our D 1 and D 2 it seems like what all of this is saying is within those bounds of comparison communities I don't know if it needs to be I mean clearly if if this is going out for an RFP then things would get you know it would be in a completely different format and all that sort of thing I think the thing that is important
069especially is that City Council sees that this is about our D 1 D 2 and that we're studying equivalent areas whether they're called urban or downtown or whatever but the equivalent areas in these these other benchmark communities but it seems to me that he's setting the context up at the top that's really what we're looking at here it could be more explicit but it's really in some ways that can be further defined in actual RFP that's my sense of it back to financing a little bit beyond the RFP and the price there's nothing you know recommendations and outcomes that we might have and if there's a price tag to that implementation so the way that the process operates now with staff and committee versus in the future if we're looking at like do we want
070to know about kind of other background feasibility within those other communities as well if there's a pricing structure like a permitting and review process and if those reviews cost more than our current process to the city because I think going forward with some of those recommendations if the recommended process is more successful that may require more resources to implement beyond the first price tag of the evaluation having kind of a cost analysis of the effort if the recommended effort would be I think a detailed to add in as a bullet point going to they're the ones who are going to create the RFP and move forward if it's it the budget will allow for it I don't know if we need to have that exact language on here I think what I understand what you're
071so they saying is whether ad weather what their recommendations are end up adding a bunch of cost to the process yeah not that price tag for the person yes executing that RFP so its own analysis if like how it will impact our process and you know if we're adding more months to this what does that mean is that what you're yeah yeah yeah so we add a bullet point that includes you know just like an analysis of the frequency of the design review process if we have an analysis of the price of the procedure to go through the design process to the city into the applicant or any changes to do you want to propose the language and a bullet point and where you'd like commissioner Mills can you help I do and I was
072actually going to suggest that under performance evaluation the fourth bullet has two sub bullets so what I read that four bullet validation of design review process compared to best practices is was that I was the vial of applications then we're supposed to be understanding the effectiveness of design guidelines versus these best practices you could add a third sub bullet that says like cost of implementation cost implications or something like that yeah let me just clear clear up so it would be under performance evaluations one two three fourth bullet then third sub bullet does states cost implications yes okay yes and so the very last bullet under implementation recommendations original originally as I was reading this as we're talking about it I thought it was okay let's look at it what we're evaluating or like what
073we currently have evaluated against best practices and might give us a report but wait did I read this the presentation of recommendations and adoption by Design Review Planning Commission and City Council are you also reading that lately we would expect that this effort to take us through making whatever changes are necessary to implement whatever this process comes out with it's the adoption of it if we have it evaluated and come up with something new for that price that's not so but I don't know that that's the intention did anybody else see that so it says so I just read this as recommendations like an evaluation of our current system and recommendations but the very last bullet says the presentation of recommendations and adoption I don't know what we're impacting and I think what that's so
074I think what we have to remember is that this document is just a recommendation to City Council and City Council from there we'll take it to the next level if they want to and they may or may not want to go through the process of recommendation adoption I think ultimately if we're gonna hire a consultant and spend 75 $250,000 we probably would like to adopt something at that point you're spending the goal should be that we are going to adopt something in the end so no I guess I don't see a problem with that personally most other commissioners it's the case here but occasionally the term adopt is used with respect to studies or plans just to say that it is now part of our planning documents so not like hey we're actually gonna influence
075implement would probably be the next step [Music] again not having drafted this myself and not knowing the intention of the other okay so so just to be clear if City Council says yep Murray amount of fun this what what you are I think we should know what the outcome would be so that is we have to study this look at what we do what people like you don't like I don't like people like how they may like or not like what happens in other cities that we could bring back here compare how what we do compares to those other cities come up with recommendations for how we can move towards a process that gets us the buildings that we have that we see in other cities that we like and have a report that lays
076that out that we would say yep we agree with this but not necessarily move the next step to make those changes yes does that okay wait fantastic job okay all right I wanted to add that last step in there for that price but okay mr. woods this may already be implicit in what we're when we're talking about but under cost implications or maybe right beside it is there a way that we can get information back to us about the perhaps the number of folks in these other communities like if they've got this big planning department which can do everything and anything then I think that's different than the perhaps another community which may be limited in terms of how many folks work in its planning department and what they can do what's on there what's
077on their agenda or their work scope or whatever we call that would that come under cost implications because it's one thing to say yeah do this they're doing it great and then we say well yeah look at their budget they ought to be doing great stuff why is that something that kind of comes when you have study and that's what the consultant would look at anyway right I don't know commissioner Randall when I based on what you're saying I look at okay we need numbers next time not bullet Zowie one two three four five six seven eight under the evaluation of voluntary process versus codify design that the five to ten comparison communities based on size of community physical development patter to committee market comparison it seems like that market comparison is getting into we're
078trying to find things that are similar to us that's what I see that as saying that the market compared we wouldn't do something that is wildly different than us in terms of a comparison community that's how I would that it would be taken up within that language and that if you want to modify that bullet to kind of include it that would be the place to do it if you feel like it doesn't say it clearly enough but that's where I feel like they're getting at it is the is the market comparison but also if if you want to add something weird it's this volume of application so maybe we can do volume of applications and size of the planning department or role or something to that effect because human and yeah so volume of
079applications and planning resources where are you I mean which performance evaluations one two three four fourth bullet number one volume of applications and planning resources okay what do we like to add that yeah that makes sense okay because I know there are you know when Ann Arbor depending on what we're doing we have what we call our other communities comparable and sometimes it's you know people that we sort of our competitors so to speak as being the best of course so you know and and those could have different it changes depending on what you're actually looking at so Fisher Mills right thank you for Commissioner woods brought up something as she was talking I realized that that bullet that I added in that same section and the cost of implementation or cost of process I
080think it's important to evaluate as you were talking commissioner survey I was thinking about like how costly is this going to be for the city but I also think that we should add something about cost of development getting to the affordability because I mean I know that we often talk about these you know that we want to see beautiful buildings but we don't want to make it so costly that we can't expect it there you know like that the people will make it more fun affordable so I would want to make sure that whether that's taking care of by finding our comps or I want to make sure that portability is referenced summer in this document so it could be so I mean I see it maybe it's a fourth bullet a fourth sub bullet
081there one being the the costs to our planning process but the second is the cost of the private developers cost of affordability because it could include cost affordability for people who are renting or buying and the cost of affordability for developers because that I think you bring up a great point there because in the end it's not only what it's gonna cost developers ultimately that has passed down to right buyers or renters so implications of on affordability or something like that yeah so the fourth bullet will be what I would say implications unaffordable of an affordability on housing affordability oh boy sounds like perhaps [Music] County's affordable housing needs assessment all of which say very explicitly the longer a project takes to go through the process the more review required and the more we ask
082of them in terms of architectural design the less affordable it's going to be and I think we just need to build that into our DNA of how we think about trade-offs and how we make decisions I think any product of this will be implied that it makes housing more expensive so we'll so leap the fourth bullet I like I think that maybe that's something nice point well-taken I wonder though if if it's our goal of have you know making sure that we are continually reminding ourselves that this may come with a price tag and encouraging the consultant to put a price tag on that for us is that but I don't know what other people think sure so they who we just am in for project and process cost implications so it covers the project
083the developer the building owner those project implication cost implications what it means for that site and the implementation of that design and then also the process cost implications as it relates to the city and the planning process and those things so changing the third bullet to instead of cost application implications project and process cost implications yes and then getting rid of the fourth bullet which is currently implications of on affordability as long as when this is translated into the actual an RFP should council decide to issue an RFP that the consultant knows what we mean by that commissioner brakes what Commissioner Ackerman was sane in terms of implications of this necessarily sort of suggests that we're we're leading to a more expensive process I don't think that has to be true if we're looking at
084best practices we might find that I mean what we have to remember is that we're I mean obviously we're in a voluntary process right now is I mean there's listening too many tables go around and have these sort of discussions that we're having tonight about wouldn't it be nice as opposed to just firmly saying hey this is what our community would like to see may speed up the process and hopefully end up with a better product and hopefully you know maybe we accomplish both things so I don't think we necessarily have to think of this processes increasing the cost of development in Ann Arbor hopefully we can you know like shorten the process and improve the design of our in our community as well my ideal world for the discussion all those in favor this
085document play say aye aye opposed all right that's approved moving on to eleven audience participation is there anyone in the audience who wishes to address the Planning Commission seeing no one we will move on to Commission proposed business are there any commissioners who'd like to propose any business commissioner banks once thanks to that I seem students are in the audience who had to listen to a particularly painful Planning Commission discussion around bullet points but in terms of Commission proposed business there were a couple things that came up around biking and I would like I really think Transportation Commission nor Trudeau should take on an issue take on looking at Class A B and C bicycle parking and then also I heard a mention of and maybe this is just necessarily a part of the process
086but to get a bike hoop into the right-of-way requires City Attorney review and that's a cumbersome process by an applicant to think about just getting a bike hoop into our right-of-way outside of the DDA like okay yeah maybe this is something that Transportation Commission could take a little bit of time to look at those processes and make some recommendations on how we can improve so we have been asked to look at Class A B and C designations and when it first came around there was very little interest in revisiting them and I don't know if that was me and or staff not sort of describing the problems we've seen from this end we have not talked about bike Hoops outside of downtown so definitely that's something I will have a raise I guess I would
087be interested in having a conversation maybe offline about what are other problems we're seeing with Class A B and C because I feel like we had a lot of questions for staff actually I might follow up with staff too because we had a lot of questions for staff and that meeting about like we just don't know about like especially the class-a spaces like are they sufficient are they not we don't know because we don't see them and we don't live in those buildings and so it's it's hard to tell but there didn't seem to be a sense when we look to discussed it that at least the publicly accessible spaces in the downtown area which I think we may have asked specifically about downtown were problematic so we'd be expanding that a little bit and
088hooking into this issue of especially hoops outside of downtown which I agree that's something I flagged is not ideal it shouldn't be so if people are willing to spend the money to put them in in places where we think we need them we should let them and do it well it's just to bring the birds back into this conversation a little bit you know I don't know if the Transportation Committee will look at that or anything but I've seen a couple of the the bikes around campus and some of them are just like laying over on the sidewalk I don't know if that's because they just fell over or what it is but you know they're in the right away or what-have-you and I don't have a problem with that unless somebody gets hurt if
089they fall or accidentally run over it with their own bikes while they're doing that so maybe and maybe this is a question you can find out whether or not they should be or if they are designed to sort of sit upright or be you know propped up someplace or if we need to look at other kinds of hoops or something but you know they could be an accident just waiting to happen to church weirdo so we did have a discussion at the last Transportation Commission meeting about micro mobility operators in general and the birds scooters in particular we haven't taken any action yet it seems like the city was still trying to figure out their response and their approach and their plan it sounds like there may be a committee to form I think there's
090some discussions that still need to happen before we figure out what to do I did read something today they don't have it in front of me and I'm working for memory that the city was looking at capping the number of vehicles per provider and then licensing providers because we're expecting more of these operators to come bird is it actually multiple in the city did indicate multiple operators have been in discussions both with the city and the university up to bird launching and bird came without talking to anybody and just showed up which did not go over very well and so that yeah that's sort of being worked on and it's I'm particularly personally interested in where this goes as well and so I've been following this and I've actually encouraged Transportation Commission to take this
091up before the birds came and was a little bit of a told-you-so moment but but yeah so the the conversations underway exactly how the process will go is not yet determined it'll become curious to see whether councils gonna pick up anything more whether the city administrator is going to be leading the way but yeah it's it's going to be an ongoing conversation I think Commissioner Ackerman yeah so just a little bit more detail I submitted a number of questions so the City Administrator earlier this week and got some helpful responses that I'd love to share people are interested first the responsibility is gonna sit with John Fournier who's the new deputy City Administrator so so someone is tasked with moving regulations forward and so I you can expect those to happen in short order so
092my first question was what will the city communicate publicly about our policy the city's communications will focus on safe behavior on crowded sidewalks this will address both scooters and bicycles motorized and not this is now a work in progress some more active communication will be coming out of City Hall well the city removes scooters from the right-of-way we will continue to remove scooters that are improperly stored along the sidewalk eg blocking the sidewalk to prevent an ad a compliant pathway so if you do see that I would encourage you to call the community standards department because we are actively going out and removing and confiscating scooters that are a hazard third will aid the LAPD issued tickets to users the response we will ticket only in cases of aggressive behavior or when unsafe conditions are
093observed we do need to develop and bring to council appropriate ordinances for what are your goals in negotiating with bird because in an earlier email he had said that we're in active negotiation with them our goals are to allow safe operation well look to create a business licensing program which would also include a cost per scooter I spoke to the city manager from Columbia Missouri yesterday and they charge $1 per scooter per day and a recovery charge for birds to reclaim their confiscated equipment we also want to have access to their usage data and we'll ask bird to partner with us on a use and safety video searcher down so just two other points that that conversation made me recall is one the the app to do actually require the user to show that they
094parks to the scooter so they've trying to at least enforce proper behavior so typically if you see something not work should be hopefully that's because it got knocked over removed by somebody else so they at least making an effort and I and I'm glad that city's moving forward these regulations I think setting expectations for behavior and you know charging a fee to help offset the cost of managing this on our and as a city and all of that is good and then the other thing I already forgot so I will let it go any other Commission proposed business to have a motion to adjourn moved back fish for brake significant assure Weatherby all those in favor we are adjourned thank you you