001I like to call the meeting to order. In accordance with the provisions of the New Jersey Open Public Meeting Act of 1975, the Audubon Board of Education transmitted notice of the meeting scheduled at 7:00 p.m. in the Audubon Junior Senior High School Media Center to the Retrospect newspaper and the Borough Clerk and by postings on the Audubon Public School District website and at the main and the Pine Street entrances of the Junior Senior High School. Roll call, please, Mrs. Roncase. Allison Lipsky Here. Mark Gatti Here. Bill Wilson Here. Danielle Di Francesco Here. Allison Cox Here. Andrea Robinson Here. Amy Davis Here. Steven Wilson Here. Sarah Kuhlmann Here. Michelle Kennedy Here. Ryan Winn Here. Okay, motions pass. Thank you. Please stand for the flag salute. Where did it go? Okay. It's out front. Yeah, you're right.
002I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, just to kind of lay a little foundation for this evening's meeting. We are having our public presentation on our budget hearing. So, first, our superintendent, Ms. Allen sent the um for the school year '26-'27. Then, the board members will have an opportunity to ask questions, have discussion, make comments, and open the meeting to which will be opportunities for anyone in the public that has questions or would like to make statements or a comment. So, uh do, I'd like to ask Ms. Allen to give her presentation and Mrs. Roncase. Do you like me to have everybody turn around? We have a presentation. It's
003not necessarily the easiest thing to see. You guys actually probably have a better view of it than the board. The board members all have it in your folder. Uh so, you can follow along there. It's not in color and pretty, but it's there. Um So, this is the public budget hearing presentation for the '26-'27 school year. The first slide goes over the things that we've looked at since last year, the things that were in the strategic plan. These were some of the areas that were identified as areas of need that we keep in our focus when we're building the uh budget for the year. The mental health, staff's professional development, preschool for all, community involvement, uh PTA at all levels, the Mount Ephraim collaboration, preparing the students for college and careers, better scores at the
004high school, life skills, PBIS and SEL across the district, more course offerings, and the therapy dog. Those were all things that we had come up with after the um forums and things from the strategic plan. We are now going into year two. We'll need to have a recap on that at another time, but that is still very paramount in our building of the budget. We make sure that we have those goals there with us when we're going through some things. Okay, this slide will shows um how our district revenue is split out. So, uh tax levy, we are able to um increase that by uh 2% increase, which gives us to the 15 million um over last year's budget. Um there are some adjustments that the district is allowed or are is eligible for. The
005biggest one is our health benefit adjustment and we had discussed this before um regarding since our health care costs have increased over 30%. Most schools have received this health care adjustment, so you are able to raise Unfortunately, all it does is really raise taxes. Um and the board, we were eligible to go up to over 1 million, but we opted to only use 858,000 of that. Uh fund balance, that is funds that we use from the previous year's budget to roll over into the next year's. Um According to the auditor, uh last year we used 375,000. We um his advice was not to increase that. We do have in the budget other capital projects that we plan on pulling out of our capital reserve. This is money that sits in a reserve that we pull
006out for We have four projects that we want to accomplish um in the '26-'27 school year. Uh that really doesn't affect any taxes there. Just It's pulling out of a reserve and putting it in as revenue. Um Tuition for Mount Ephraim, this is um our billing for 9th through 12th students to attend uh here in Audubon. And then our state aid. Um This is given to us by the um by the state and this is based on our enrollment numbers. We are flat with a little bit of a decrease. So, that's why we don't see a big increase at all in our um state aid numbers. Federal Medicaid is a figure of 31,000 that comes directly from the state, also. Um This is the number that they actually tell us to budget based on uh
007it's called semi. It's a huge application that we have to fill out to um get these funds, but it's more state run for that. And then miscellaneous revenue. This would be our gates and gate fees, our pay to play that we have for the kids, any Chromebook fees that we might need to collect, um any fines. It's also our extraordinary aid that is a separate application and that has to deal with uh special ed costs for that. So, that's how we come to our total district revenue. And then we did a nice pie chart for you to see that uh breaks down on where the district revenue comes from. The largest part is the tax levy. Appropriations The advertised budget is sort of broken down and they they broke break it down into sections. Every
008budget that you look at for a school district is broken down the same way. So, um ins instructional programs are employee benefits. You have the tuition that we pay for out of district students. Um we are able to supplement that was 350,000 to our grant funding. Um you have uh athletic and school activities, school sponsored events. Um they would be mostly stipends and supplies for them. Um district support would be all of the other support services. Child study team, guidance, nurse. Um and then you have broke down between school administration and then uh general and central administration would be the superintendent's office and the um business office and also uh technology is in there. Facilities and operations student transportation. This includes the bus drivers plus our transportation that we bus um out of district students,
009too. Which we only do special education students we bus uh to other locations. And then in that capital projects um is the 250,000 uh there plus some other equipment that we need. So, as you can see, revenues equal your expenditures of 31 million. And then we did another nice little pie chart there of our appropriations and you can see that the most of our funds do go to instructional programs. Is health care in personal benefits? What about this one? I'm sorry. Okay. In personal services, personnel services is health care. Right. So, instructional programs and um personal services are with the health benefits. And then we wanted to show you the trend of the tax levy. So, this year with the budget that is presented in front of you on a house assessed at 204,700 uh
010taxes will increase $347.93, which is $28.99 a month. We do have a tax rate of 7.59. So, what kind of things did we do to get us to this budget to be able to balance what what our needs are with what we have coming in. Um we talked about some of these things. We're going to go into a little bit more specifics. The most important thing that I want to make sure everybody is aware of is that we're not cutting any positions and not non not riffing any positions. Um with what's going on in in today's world, there's a whole lot of districts that are cutting millions of dollars in staff. Um some buildings are closing, some schools are closing. We don't have any of that. We found a way to keep everybody that we
011have still in their positions. That's not to say that we don't have to make some changes. Um some of the conversations that were had here as a whole board, some of the conversations that we've had at committees has helped us decide some directions to look at. Historically at Mansion, there's been four home rooms for every grade level. And at Haviland, your K1 and 2 have always had five for each grade level. The classes are not the the entire grade level size is not different, but the number of students per class was different. We had the ability and had the luxury of having them smaller. With all these cuts, with all these things going on and us having to try to make this budget balance, we have decided to collapse one first grade and one second
012grade classroom. That means that next year our first grade classrooms will be approximately 19 students each. Our second grade classrooms will be approximately 16 students each. These are still very very low numbers compared to what other districts are dealing with. There's many districts that are in the 25, 28, almost up to 30 per classroom even at this age level. Not talking about high school level, but at this elementary lower elementary. So, we're we're very comfortable that 16 and 19 are still very manageable numbers. Obviously, 12 and 15 is better, but that places we had to find places where we could do some things. Sorry, before I go on to the next one. Um An important fact, when we sit down to look at the budget, we make sure that we are being very careful and
013deliberate to not target one area, target one building, make sure that we are trimming from everyone in every way in every building so that not one area is being felt. We had to sit down and look at everything from athletics to academics to numbers of classrooms, everything was on the table for this negotiation. That being said, we are reducing one academic support teacher at Mansion. Um Obviously, we want as much academic support as possible. We have been doing a lot of work with our RTI, which is our intervention period. We've been doing a lot of work with instructional council in looking at the multi-tiered uh systems of support, MTSS. We have some plans to put in place next year for that. And because we have that, we feel comfortable that letting go of one academic
014support person won't put us in a position where the kids aren't getting what they need. We think that we can still satisfy the needs with some of the programming that we're going to put in place and cut that one person from the um from the Mansion school. I think I'm going I think I'm going to need you to click for my next one. The next item is the item that's been talked about a lot is the music program. Um we had originally talked about taking the two music people, the high school and the Mansion position and combining them into one. This week we sat down um curriculum administration, if you can click that blue thing link. Thank you. Uh administration sat down. We had talked about we would not go out looking for a person
015for that position without really outlining what that position was going to look like. How would it work? We were able to come up with a schedule. We were able to come up with a plan that would facilitate one person working at both the high school and at Mansion being able to make sure we still have the same number of lesson times and all of that. That being said there was still more conversation and someone said, "What if we did two part-time people instead of one full-time person?" There's a lot of advantages to that. The advantages are a part-time person is 29.5 hours. To have two people would be one at each site all the time. 29.5 hours as opposed to one 40-hour person, we're actually getting more hours of support out of the person and
016it doesn't cost us as much. We can hire two part-time people for about the same thing that we can one full-time because of benefits. So even though we talked about the one position and I'm now asking you to approve two part-time positions, it doesn't change the budget that I put forth to you last time because it is basically the same amount. Part of the reason that this came to light is because, like I said, everything had to be looked at. Um we have talked about we've we've been to the concerts, we've been to the things. I you know, we have a fabulous music program. It's very robust. But if you're looking at the numbers, I I always have to look at the data. We're very data driven. Back in 2017-18 is when the programs were
017I'm sorry, 18-19. One more time. 2019-2020 is when the programs were I have numbers from both the the Mansion school. You got to slide that up a little bit. It's not showing the whole There you go. Um at that time it cut off the years at the top, but that's okay. At that time, there was 111 students actively playing instruments at the high school and 117 actively playing instruments at Mansion. That meant that there was a total of it is off the chart there, but it's 228 total students in music. Fast forward to right now, this year we have so I say 65 students in the high school actively playing instruments and 41 students at Mansion for a grand total of 106 students. I don't take this lightly. It's not easy to make the decisions
018on where to make the cuts, but the numbers don't warrant two full-time positions at this time. We absolutely have faith that the program will come back to that level. But, we need time to get it there, and so we have things in place, we have ideas in place to make that happen. The two part-time will be much more effective and give them more time in the buildings. My only caution is hiring a part-time person is very different than looking for a full-time person. You're not going to get a veteran who has 20 years of music experience, who's been a conductor that wants to come on for a part-time position. You will find a younger novice person who's hungry, who really wants to build a program, who wants to make it their own, and with that's
019what we're hoping to find, one for each position. We'll have to see how that hiring goes. I want to be very honest that if come end of July, we're not able to find those candidates, we're going to need to sit and have another conversation about what do we do? Because trying to find part-time people is difficult. We've had this over the years. It's kind of like finding Paris. There's not a lot of people. Our hope is that with things that are going on in the other school districts, with cuts being made, someone may be more willing to come on for a part-time job than have no job, especially knowing that they have the opportunity to grow it and turn it into their own program. We have every intention of budgeting next year to make these
020full-time positions, but you know the situation we're in right now, and that we have we have to make cuts. You can go back to my original. So, two part-time positions at 29.5. We have retirements and resignations that are happening within the district. We're not going to hire to replace them. So, for example, we have um a couple of fourth-grade teachers leaving, but I'm collapsing a first and a second-grade classroom and the academic support. So, those will fill in some of those spots. That's not to say we're not doing any hiring. We know that the preschool grant is an entirely separate entity. We are hiring new preschool people. We do at this point have our spots filled. So, if anybody else resigns or retires, there will still be hiring, but the spots that are already available
021are already taken care of with some of these internal moves. Uh we have also done a significant amount of cutting back in supplies, in our allotments of things, in our quantities of new technology. Um I'll pause there for a minute. We talked about uh and it's happening a lot of places now that students are becoming far too reliant on technology. We are talking about being uh cell phone free from bell to bell. So, these are conversations we're having. Do kids all need to have devices in their hands all day? So, for kindergarten, we're talking about not buying Chromebooks per student, which is what we have done historically, so that they would We're going to buy carts to use. So, the students will still have exposure. The students will still see a keyboard and learn the
022letters, but they're not going to need technology that frequently that warrants us putting out for, say, 100 Chromebooks, where we can just get a cart of 30 and have some savings there. Um Summer work. We had talked a little bit at the education committee yesterday that we had all kinds of ideas of things that we wanted to do for summer work. A whole lot of that was cut. There is still a few postings because there are some new initiatives. There's a handwriting um mandate now that didn't exist before. There's some things like that that we have to, by code, get in there. So, those are the only summer curriculum type things that we have going on. We talked about our our At the upper level, it's the um health curriculum with the SCL and the
023mental health. Those things are not in there, and we need to get them in there. It's It's not um optional. Uh so, there is very limited summer work happening in the world of curriculum. Uh we also had some new initiatives that we wanted to to launch next year for elementary. We're going to hold off on those. We don't have the money. Now's not the time. These are very worthwhile initiatives, but we're just going to have to hold on to them for a little bit until things become a little bit more comfortable. Um Cut back on supplies, those were the other Yeah, you know, just we we talked before again. I wanted to make sure that all areas and all departments were using their money wisely. So, in athletics, we went through and took some money
024out of some different sport areas to say you have to cut back the amount. In some science labs, we cut back the amounts. We asked people to consolidate things or to look at things, sharing things instead of everybody having their own sets of things in order to cut back on some of our expenses. Other cost-saving measures, we do have shared services. Our we uh our technology shares with Collingswood, with Belmar, with the Audubon Borough. Um so, the services that we provide, we're able to bill for. This year, we started a new thing with Collingswood with all of their Chromebooks that were damaged. We actually are like a Chromebook repair store, and we're billing them for the time that we're working on those things. Those are things that we work on outside of the day that
025they're working on our machines. So, there's people putting in some extra time, but it benefits us in that we can bill Collingswood for some of that work. We have a third party for energy. Um this has been a savings. It's kind of like a reseller, but we're always looking for areas that we can save the district some money. We are member of the GIF, which is a co-op of a multiple multitude of different school districts in Burlington, Camden, and Gloucester County that come together for the casualty insurance and things of that nature. It's much cheaper for us to do it as a coalition or co-op. Um Fortunately, since the last time we met, we have found out that there is a possibility that we will be able to go out and shop for new health
026care insurance. Um our I always say it wrong. Our usage Our our experience number came back, and it's something that will has improved, and we think we will be able to. Unfortunately, that's not money we're going to feel right away. Everything takes time. Um our brokers will will do some shopping. It's not a guarantee, but it's a lot more ideas than what we had before. So, we're very excited about that, and that will hopefully get us some, if not this year, even if we could for next year, have that money to put back into our budget. Uh we also apply for quite a few grants. There's an e-grant that we get every year. Obviously, the preschool uh expansion grant is what's allowing us to do the things we're doing there. Um there's a focus grant
027that the uh curriculum department uh applies for. I'm sure there's others that These were just some of the larger ones that we put out there. Um these are other things. We're always looking for these opportunities. And then, bulk purchasing. Uh what I've noticed when I came in last year was that all the teachers do their own little Amazon list, and everybody orders the things that way. And that's great, but you're actually spending a lot more than instead of you getting pencils, you getting pencils, and you getting pencils, we're going to get a vat of pencils, and we can just deal them out. So, that was a change, and we're going through some different vendors. Amazon is convenient. Amazon is easy. Amazon is not always the cheapest. There are many times it is, but there are
028times it's not. So, we've been making sure that we're using the the corporate buying type things. Quill is another wonderful resource that we use that we can get things very quickly for very good prices, and it's not just what it looks like in the book. So, we have um all of our teachers and administrators using bulk, trying to make sure that instead of we have so many little orders, we're in the September. Uh business office will tell you we get a whole lot of POs in the beginning of the year, and we're trying to just do huge bulk orders, and that's been helping. Even so far as with maintenance and things with the um paper towels and tissues and things like that. Instead of ordering of the The only other problem there becomes storage, but
029we have enough room for some of that. Uh but, it's much cheaper when you buy things in bulk. Questions? No. Yeah, it's their questions. Oh, they're turning around. Okay. I think you wanted me to turn around. Uh so, with the point about bulk purchasing, I imagine logistically this could be challenging, but has there ever been an exploration of ways to kind of join together with other school districts, like for some sort of supplies that everybody kind of uses. So, let's say like Haddon Heights, you know, are you using these similar kind of things? I I understand the logistics would would be challenging, but would that potentially offer some means of savings if different school districts kind of banded together to purchase some of these things in bulk? I have no I've never never thought of
030that. Um I know that I was in a larger district before, and they had the What was it called? It's um a data a data and did things through that. Um that is something that we could explore. I will tell you that, let's say, at the elementary levels, and it's only because I know she's here and she does it. Miss Martel has put together some spreadsheets where all the teachers put what extra supplies they have right now, and put it on a spreadsheet so that others will know it's there. So, I mean, we are doing a lot of things internally to make sure that we're not waste wasting. Like, you don't just every year come in and go, "I'm buying a bunch more colored pencils." Well, I have a box of colored pencils I never
031opened last year. Do you want them? Yes, I do. Things like that. So, we are working on that. But, I, you know, especially the smaller districts around here, I'm friends with those superintendents, so that is something that I'll go back and ask them about because we're all scraping for pennies. So, if that's something that we could actually pull together and do, we'll check it out. Mr. Ronkes, on slide On slides five and six, the general appropriations funds coming at 31.1, but then on the next slide it a preparation 29.6. What's Can you just explain that? Uh thank you for catching that. It is 31 The pie chart is does equal up to 31 141. That was a slide that we added in um from we we presented this at the meet and greet, but did
032not include the pie charts. So, that pie chart was The numbers are correct. It's just the number at the top. That should say 31 million 140. Um I have had two questions. That's all? First, the the chart that you gave I saw this this email earlier. I think this is a really It really demonstrates really effectively the thing that you were highlighting, which is the enrollment issue in the bands uh declining so steeply over a 7-year period. And so, we need to rebuild that program. And I guess my my first question is, do we have a sense of what contributed cuz I I don't know. My my neighbor was in band when I first moved here. Everybody's in band. Loves the band. Everybody loves the band. I'm curious. Do we have a sense of what
033contributed to the decline in enrollment? Why it's less than half of what it was 7 years ago that we can work to rebuild. The only one that I know definitively is COVID happened through that time and that's that's a big factor. Um and it's hard to get the kids, you know, back into Yes, that messed up a cohort and things like that. Um There was also a change in personnel at Mansion and I I don't know that it's ever come back from what she had it as. So, we intend to tap into that as much as we can to to try to you know, pick her brain. What What did What did you do to get 100 kids to come and play and how did you keep that all organized and how did you get
034I know that some of the frustration right now is the kids don't bring their instruments so they don't get to practice and then they're not growing and then they get frustrated and and the schedule um unfortunately our our teacher that's doing the music at Mansion is out a lot. She's got some health concerns. So, the kids practices get canceled. It's It's hard to keep that momentum. Um I That I would think is easier to fix, but I don't know. I mean, I we haven't really um dug in that deep to figure out exactly what it is um because I you know, my people were leaving. So, I need to get new people there that come in with some new ideas and energy and enthusiasm and see what they can bring. >> Yeah, cuz I I
035just think it's so important. I think this town just celebrates the band and just make sure that that rich tradition stays there. So, then my second concern is this. Um We had discussed that replacing it with one position to get somebody that could help regrow it and then expand it when, you know, in the future uh and our budget hopefully crunch is not as much of an issue. Uh but this um two part-time position uh idea was is is kind of news to me. I just saw it earlier today and then um you did explain it. And I think it's not so much a question as much a concern that you acknowledge, which is it can be harder to fill part-time positions with highly qualified people. Can you tell me why you think that is
036truly the better idea than just doing one that would be split like I think I think everybody needs to be sold on that or they're going to be really frustrated by the idea. And And that's the one. I think both options are difficult. I think finding one person that can really embrace 7 to 12, which is one responsibility, and the it's actually 4 to 6 cuz third grade doesn't go. And the 4 to 6 is a lot. Can it be done? Absolutely. All of our specials people right now go back and forth between buildings. So, the concept of doing two buildings is not impossible. Is it a lot? Yes. Is it going to be a lot of organization, running around, things like that? Like I said, we created a schedule. We we made one. We
037were able to come up with the principals of both buildings and Mr. Burke sat down and came up with a schedule of exactly how it work. Would it be easy? No. Is it doable? Yes. Our concern, and I'm going to use a term that Ms. Davis said is you're almost looking for a unicorn. You're looking for somebody who has the experience in whatever that is coming in that wants to do either high school band or wants to do elementary band and asking them to do both. That's going to be a hard find. Now, you go to two part-time. The benefit is there's somebody in the building at all times. So, you have the ability like I said, if the kid forgot their instrument, but mom and dad bring it up, maybe we can have that
038lesson later in the day instead of earlier in the day. We also get a few more hours out of it. Are we going to be have any trouble finding that? I don't know. Um The only thing I can relate it to is like the media program that we're starting here in the in the high school. That gentleman came in and yes, he's a full-time position, but he came in going, "Oh my god, if you're going to let me build this from the ground up, I am so excited. Give me 5 years. You're not going to believe what this is going to be like." I'm looking for somebody with that kind of energy and enthusiasm. I believe they exist. I don't know. I won't know until I cast the and see what I get. The position
039that's posted right now just high school, we have 30-some applicants, but again, that's for a full-time high school position. I don't know if those people would also be interested in doing the the two schools. It's a small district. It's not uncommon for people to have to do. Like I said, all my specials go back and forth. This is just instrumental. My vocal goes back and forth between Haviland and Mansion now. Um So, there is no good answer. The best answer is find me more money so I can have two full-time people. But you're the ones that said to me, right, you know, I'm Absolutely. Full-time positions. Absolutely. And correct me if I'm wrong, Cheyne. And when Ms. Davis and I and you and I met on Monday and discussed this having the part-time committed to
040each building allows them the opportunity to grow the program, right? Especially at Mansion to spend that extra time to recruit or build enthusiasm or you know, do whatever they need to do to get Right, that's our hope. Right. Get two people that have some fire in there and be like, you know, get it going. Once they And by the end of the year, they have so many kids that are interested in picking it up for next year and health care doesn't kill me so that we're not having a 37% increase and I'm able to take those two part-times and bump them up to full-time. Just one thing I I wanted to kind of piggyback on what Mr. William Wilson said to how do you regrow program? Um just in my you know, my own with
041my through all their years in band and Maybe move it closer. I don't know. You fade in and out. I I think one way we can can help to grow the program is to ask the kids. I've gotten a lot of suggestions and inputs like I said around my dinner table, especially in the junior senior high school. Um you know, some of the of the things that they might be be looking to do. And I'm I'm sure it also exists over So, I think asking is is a great place to I won't send them a survey cuz they don't do them. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. I just want a clarification question. When you're talking about hiring two part-times, their focus will be instrumental instruction, not vocal instruction. That position's already covered. Correct? This
042is just an instrumental music position. Correct. So, they won't have double duty worrying about the >> No. No. No. We have We have vocal people at We already have a vocal person that does both Mansion and Haviland. So, only Haviland 4 to 6 gets instruments. Third doesn't. Um And the So, there's a vocal person that does both of those buildings and obviously a full vocal program here. So, this is really just the instrumental piece. Curious with the on the high school side if there's enough hours in the day with a part-time job for the the instrumental teacher to really be able to cover all the bases with the students and really give them the proper help they need, especially with electives added on the side. I'm pretty sure there's a music theory class. I just
043I don't I I Honestly, right now, they have a zero period and the first period and the whole rest of their day is just for lessons. And like I said, the numbers from before, you know, there used to be in the hundreds and now it's um much smaller. So, it is actually manageable for within the day. Um You may not have lessons of three or four. You may have lessons with five or six instead of a smaller group, but it There's They would be here 5 days and able to do all of those periods. Right, but my concern is do we know the exact number of lessons that usually go on per day or Okay. Yeah. And how much is that usually? They're different each day. I have a schedule, but it's different each day.
044There's But there's days that are full. There's days that are honest full. And same thing at Mansion. There's days where she's doing four lessons a day. There's days where she's doing two or three. Which is what my concern was is it's not Yes. Oh. Oh. Oh my goodness. I had a question about lessons as well. Um What is the expectation if you play an instrument, are you expected to take a lesson once a week or I don't know how many once a week that they have lessons. Choice? I don't know the answer to that question. I know at Mansion. I know at Mansion every kid has it once a week. I know that the information he sent to me is that he's very careful in rotating the lessons to make sure that a kid doesn't
045miss third period every Thursday and things like that. So, they rotate it, but yes, in general they have lesson everybody that has an instrument generally has lessons to improve their craft. Okay. But you you there's different kinds of lessons. You can have all the trumpets together. You could have brass together. You could have like over there they have beginner band and advanced band. Um he said he has you know sometimes you have students that are working on a solo piece to work on for college. >> No, I understand that. The lesson is like I'm just curious much like Ryan I was just like how many kids out of the 70 are Well, 70 you'll get it, but like I say 70 kids at 5 days a week for Well, right, but I don't think that's
046happening is what I'm saying. I mean I have a band player and I think he's had two lessons this year. My choice. He doesn't want to miss class. You know, it's his choice. But you know, that's why I don't know that the lessons are such a pressing issue. Um it doesn't seem like they are at the high school level. I know when you're learning an instrument obviously you have to learn it, but that's just seems to be sort of the feedback. I think you get a turn now. Uh so if I'm understanding correctly full-time teaching staff members at the high school have to do one period that's like a study hall or um bathroom monitoring or something like that. Okay. So, for this position being 29 and a half hours would they still be required
047to do They don't have to. Now, and even the ones even like if if it was a full-time music teacher we have the ability to say that they don't you know, because they're doing an extra lesson. It's well, they'd have to sign off saying that it's okay for them to do an extra uh student contact time as opposed to having a duty. But yes, that's that's easily worked around. I don't believe we have our part-time people worrying about that. Okay. So, if you're cutting back 10 hours a week maybe five and a half of that is cutting back from potential instruction time if they don't actually have a duty right to do as well. Um general question about what we're voting for tonight. So, when we vote to advance the budget are we voting item
048by item or is it like um in total amount for instructional I think total amount for It's the total budget that that we're submitting. The whole thing, right? Yes, for tonight even though when we presented the budget for you to submit to the county it included uh one less music teacher like so the a full-time music teacher with benefits. Okay. The total budget amount of 31 million is not changing. What's changing is how you're split how you're using those funds for that position. You're taking a full-time position plus benefits and breaking that down now into two part-time positions. So, are we voting for that or are we voting for this is your pot of money that's appropriated to instructional staff period and that theoretically shifts and changes. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, let's say we
049voted yes on the budget tonight. That's not saying 100% that this is the plan that's moving forward in terms of those positions. Let's say you have some people retire and you realize like oh, we can do some attrition there and maybe that's giving us some extra funds that we could make other adjustments or we can we can still adjust if things change. Okay. Um and my other question is not music related. Um so, you're reducing the academic support by one at Mansion. Do you know what position that is? Is it like um you know, like a reading specialist or like a um basic skills push and support person. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Col- collapsing uh one first one second grade classroom. So, we're going from five to four. Presumably there's a teacher that doesn't have
050a class then. What are what's happening with them? Do we have two fourth grade openings? >> Okay. So, one is going Okay. Sorry. One is going to fourth grade. One actually has a preschool cert and is going to preschool. And then the academic support person is going into a fourth grade. We also are losing a sixth grade language arts teacher. That's posted. Any other questions or comments from board members? All right. As I stated earlier we will now open the floor for public participation. Um I would just ask that when you come up to the podium that you state your name and address so that we uh we know who you are. Um there is a 3-minute time limit per speaker. And there is [clears throat] also a 15-minute total topic limit. However, I given
051the fact that there's really only one topic to discuss tonight I can anticipate with great certainty that we will make a motion to extend the discussion time uh on the topic of the budget. Um we will listen to all the comments and questions and then at the conclusion of the public participation session we'll take a little break. We'll we'll as board members be taking copious notes, take a little break and then answer questions as a group. Rather than answering questions one-on-one back and forth I want to make sure everybody has an opportunity to be heard. So, we'll kind of take your questions and comments as a collective and then respond at the end. So, I'm now opening the public participation session. Just feel free to come on up to the microphone. Hello everyone. I'm Sue
052Moore. I live at 226 East Pine Street and I am the music teacher who was in the elementary school until 3 years ago. So, any questions you have about how that works I can tell you how I did it. Um I have a couple of questions and of course I'm I'm very keen on having full-time teachers because I feel like you get somebody with a lot of energy in the in the program. They're going to need some time to get things moving forward and um hopefully those numbers are going to go back to the way that they were several years back. Um many of the band programs happen after school and uh I'm curious for a part-time person if they're planning to do the jazz band how is that configured? The All-Star band at elementary
053school used to be an after school program also. So, how are you planning to do that if a person is part-time. And I'm also curious the marching band is that considered a separate item from this? So, it's not part of the uh duties of the high school director. Yeah. All right. So, so my major concern is that a part-time person who's not getting any benefits may not be as committed to staying and also may not be as committed to you know, producing a thriving program as somebody who's full-time and given a lot of support in their job. And I I have to say that this was I was surprised to hear that today. I think it's a in some ways an improvement because at least it would be a dedicated staff person. But I am
054concerned that the band program that has always been so much pride and it's has a really big place in my heart is um you know, it's it's definitely declined and it wasn't just because of COVID. COVID did take a a bite out of it, but it was coming back. And uh you know, I feel like the things that need to be in place in order to build a positive band community is uh it has to be consistent. It has to be available. You have to have some challenging music and it has to be fun. And for that to happen I think it's important to have somebody who's completely dedicated to the job. Um you know, the uh item of group lessons I cannot speak to the high school or the junior high. I don't exactly
055know how that works, but in the elementary school it's uh with a 5-day schedule it was once a week. And uh 6-day schedule whatever that issue was. Um 20 seconds. Yeah, if you have any other questions about how the band runs I'd be happy to answer them for you. All right. Um let's go band. >> [applause] >> Good evening. Sarah Barry, Lakato Avenue. Miss Allen quoted data. Audubon residents contribute over 55% of our taxes to the school systems. Audubon under the radar added assistant superintendent of curriculum backfilled director of curriculum at a difference cost of almost $100,000 last year. We have not been told as to why this continues. If you believe that two part-time instructors for band will allow young robust graduates to build the program. It will not Mount Ephraim cut their program
056to a part-time band instructor. This has frequent turnover of instructors over there. If they are lower at their numbers, that is affecting Audubon and those Mount Ephraim students coming into our system. So please take into account Mount Ephraim and what other districts are doing. Research shows that any school district with part-time teachers, they leave for benefits and longevity. You cannot build a program by cutting numbers of direct care and to the students directly. This is true in any career field. Audubon High School has had over in the past 1,000 students with less administration, but continue to add administrators. Band is a curriculum. You quoted, "We do not We do not make cuts to these positions." But you did. You cut a band instructor. You just said it tonight. The band boosters also were fundraising at
057the elementary schools. They were selling food, things at their um events over there, but we're told this week they are not allowed to fund raise anymore. That was a recruitment opportunity to recruit children into the band. And they were told they cannot do that. Why? Quality and time of one instructor will not serve and retention of two part-time will be abysmal. What cuts have you made to extracurriculars? You stated tonight that you are cutting to sports and other areas, but what exactly? What are the details? We want to know what those are. Other career fields conduct climate surveys. I challenge the board to send out these climate surveys to adults, not to the students. Ask us, the town members and the staff at the school and the district, what they want. It's important. It's important
058to hear from your people of how you're doing, how you as the board and the administration. Lessons are very, very important. I was a band member here in the 1990s. I was the drum major under Mr. Deloach. I had many years in band and my children and it would be horrible to see this in this town, the tradition of pride and excellence, to cut back and not continue where it's at. I suggest a one full-time high school instructor with a part-time elementary. Trisha Martel, president of the Audubon Education Association. Members of the board, community members, parents, and students, I'd like to express my gratitude for your attendance this evening. Your presence and willingness to share your perspective demonstrates a profound dedication to the welfare of our children, uh ensuring that their needs remain our central
059focus and that their achievement is the ultimate objective and what truly fortifies this district. I sincerely appreciate every individual who has come this evening. Members of the board, I feel compelled to speak following the superintendent's comments. I am extremely concerned that staff attendance information was referenced in such an identifiable manner and in a public forum. Sharing details that can be linked to an individual employee is an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy and it compromises the trust that staff have and should be able to place in district leadership. I respectfully urge the board to address this matter and ensure that employee information is handled with the confidentiality and professionalism it requires. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Good evening. My name is Romina Maco. I live on 28 North Davis Avenue and I'm a band student here
060at AHS. I just want to reiterate, I know that you've discussed these two part-time jobs, but as you heard and as the stats prove, that would just lead to a lack of commitment from these two people and additionally combining these positions would also eliminate opportunities for students to improve their skills under the guidance of a teacher. Band lessons at the high school are just as important as at lower levels. I'll give you personal experience. I only started learning the clarinet in 7th grade and I had no idea what I was doing. I felt lost and I felt hopeless, but with some extra encouragement and help from Mr. Deloach, I was able to learn the instrument quickly and continue improving. Now students won't have the support to try something new like I did and they'll be
061discouraged from joining band and will that will probably only increase or well, decrease the numbers of attendance in band. Additionally, if you did combine the positions, the teacher would have to handle senior high, junior high, jazz, and various level mansion bands. The teacher's attention would be too divided to benefit any party. That is exactly what has happened with our new mental health counselor. She has been spread so thin, students have limited opportunities to visit her. If combining positions resulted in a worse mental health program, then how could it possibly benefit the bands? It would only set the teacher up for failure. Furthermore, I feel and others feel as well, this decision has been dealt with in a manner that has blindsided people involved. Neither Mr. Deloach nor Mr. Sweeney were aware of this development until
062less than a week ago. A number of band students also cannot attend this meeting to defend the department because they are away performing. Even if it is a result of poor planning, it shows that you are making this decision without considering the impact it may have on those affected. I feel you should strive to make decisions that have that take community input into consideration. You may save money for the school, but it's I feel you failed see the long-lasting consequences that could result from this decision. I implore you to remember the dozens of students whose musical education will suffer as a result of your possible decision. >> [applause] >> Hi, good evening. Um my name is Dottie Deech Barnett. I live at 139 Virginia Avenue in Audubon. I'm here and I'm going to read a
063statement. Romina just spoke about the present and I'm going to ask you to think from this moment and the students that you saw perform at the concert last night, those of you who were there for Mr. Deloach's last concert, 7th graders, 8th graders and they're coming up through this program and I want you to think about the future as I talk about my daughter, Marin Barnett, who wrote something from her past. I'm reading this as her statement. She's a graduate of 2021. My name [clears throat] is Marin Barnett and I graduated from Audubon High School in 2021. Since then, I earned my Bachelor of Music in Music Therapy and I now work as a music therapist in Florida helping individuals with special needs to develop communication, self-expression, social connection, motor skills, and so much more
064through the power of music. Audubon's music program as a whole changed the course of my life. As a student, I participated in choir and I studied music theory under Mr. Deloach and musical theater. Those classes gave me far more than credits towards graduation. They gave me mentors who invested time and individualized attention into helping their students grow. That kind of growth does not happen through a factory model approach where fewer staff are expected to do more and more and more for less. Music education is built on relationships, guidance, and specialized instruction. When one music position is removed, it affects the strength of the entire program and it also sends a message that the arts programs are expendable. It raises concerns for what may be taken next. One programs, once they're cut piece by piece, rebuilding
065them later is far more difficult than preserving them now. For students, music programs are often the one place they find belonging, motivation, confidence, community. For some of us, it also becomes the foundation for future careers. Without this district's music program, I would not be doing the work I do today. I, as an alumni, gradually graduated class of '21, respectfully ask you to protect and invest in a full music program so future students have the same opportunities that helped to shape my future. Thank you for your time and consideration. Those are the words of my daughter who went through this program, both taught by Mr. Deloach and Ms. Sweeney and I ask as her mother, as I've watched her take lessons and learn and grow and become a someone who heals through music. 10 seconds. >>
066to think about the power of music because you have the power right now to decide whether or not the music will play on the way it has in this tradition of pride and excellence. >> [applause] >> Um okay, we've had Hang on just 1 second, Mr. Bradshaw. We've had We've had five speakers now, so we have reached our 15-minute limit on the topic. Can I have a motion to extend that for another 15 minutes? >> Motion to extend another 15 minutes. >> Second. Thank you. My name is Rob Bradshaw. I live at 434 West Graisbury, right down the street. I walked here. I First of all, thank you for for hearing us out tonight. I appreciate that and thank you for extending the time. I come at this from I'm I'm here to support the
067music program, as you may have guessed. I I come from maybe a unique perspective in that I am an Audubon High School graduate, class of a long time ago, 1997. My So, I was born and raised here. I still live here. My kid One of my children still goes here. One just graduated. Both products of the music program, so it means a lot to us. Since graduating here, I have made a career out of music. I founded and operated a music school for 20 years. I'm an orchestra conductor and I now work with the New Jersey Symphony. And that's relevant here because at the New Jersey Symphony, I'm in charge of about $30 million of budget. So, I hear you. I I see both sides of this and I understand the passion from students and
068from parents. I I understand it. I share it. I share that passion. When I got here tonight, I had a different idea of what I was going to say because I learned that you've rethought the concept of maybe making this two part-time positions. I'm not going to die on this hill. I think that's an improvement. I think that's better. One of my major concerns was that it's there's a skill set involved in teaching very young people how to hold their instrument without dropping it and how to blow into a clarinet without making it squeak and teaching them how to love it at that young age. Most of the time, people with that skill set are not the same people who can inspire people like children who are in 11th and 12th grade. It's a very
069different skill set. And so, I thank you for taking the time and the energy to discuss that and come up with a solution in that regard. I thank you for that. I do, however, share a concern because when I hear that you're looking to grow the program, I do believe you. I There There's a a cliché sometimes, "Nobody cares about music." I've never thought that about Audubon. I still don't think that about Audubon and I don't think that now. But, I think it will be difficult to grow a program with part-time positions. These are people who who Of course, you might find some young and hungry people, but those young and hungry people are going maybe offered a better position elsewhere. I've been in this position myself. I understand. So, it will be difficult to
070grow the program. And if that is your goal, and I do believe that it is, I implore you to keep this at full-time positions. Thank you for your time. >> [applause] >> Hi, my name is Mary Jane Fulton. I live at 113 Harding Ave and I'm a band student here at Audubon. Before I begin, I want you to think about the most challenging class you've ever took. Now, I want you to imagine that everyone is learning something different and you only have 45 minutes. The bell rings and there's still just that one part of the lesson that you can't understand. You try to find time during the school day where a teacher can help, but they're just not available. After school, you have sports. Maybe you can find an answer online. The questions are so
071specific, you just can't find an answer. Ask a friend, they're learning something totally different than you. So, now you're lost, frustrated, and you don't know what to do. While I speak, I'd like you to remember this scenario. I'm here today to present to you the problems that combining the teaching positions may cause for students. I do understand that combining these positions will save money on a limited budget, but I believe that the educational experience of your students should come first. The biggest problem that I can see with combining these two positions is the limit of lessons that high school students will get throughout the day. The lesson periods give students a chance to have a one-on-one lesson with the band teacher. This helps those who are scared to ask questions during class and especially for
072those who have solos. If someone has a solo, the teacher cannot focus on that one particular person cuz they have this entire class to teach. During class time, the teacher should be there for every student and what about the ones you need help later? Admittedly, students could work with the band teacher during home room, but this will not be nearly as beneficial as having a lesson during a regular period. If student has to choose between having a 10-minute lesson period and a 45-minute lesson period, I can guarantee you that most of, if not every student in this school, would rather have the 45 minutes. To put it in perspective, if um a student had to take what If student had to accomplish something in 45 minutes and they could only get those lessons during a
07310-minute home room, they would have to miss home room for the entire week. Another option would be to work on the music by yourself. And while some students do this, it's only semi-beneficial. Students can practice for hours, but who's going to tell them they're playing a wrong note or rhythm? Being able to practice with a band teacher who can listen to you play and look at your music helps a lot learning to play it. Just the other day, I had a band lesson with Mr. Deloach on the timpani drums cuz I was confused about timing and a few notes on this one song we were playing for our concert. He sat down with me and I played over and over again until he was confident that I knew what I was doing. And going back
074to the thing about the part-time position, I know the money from I came from money from, so I know the schools have a a bunch of trouble bunch of problems paying part-time teachers for music. We had Mr. Clarkin. He was there for maybe less than 2 years and then he left. We had another teacher who was there for a month, left cuz of the small pay. We now have one band teacher that's been there for about 2 years and from what I've heard, she's like on the fence like she's starting to think about it cuz now she has a child to take care of and she's working full-time but only getting paid part. It's not enough. Now, remember the scenario in the beginning? That's how it feel to be a band student without lesson periods.
075We came to the school We come to the >> We come to the school an hour before everyone else cuz music is something that we're so passionate about in our lives. So, I ask you, when you consider the idea of combining these two music positions, please keep us in mind and how not having a teacher here throughout the day will impact our ability to learn and succeed in our music education. Thank you. >> [applause] >> My name is Valerie Messer. I live at 216 Wyoming Ave in Audubon. Sorry, I'm not good with this stuff. Um So, my eldest child started with Mrs. Moore and you know, they went for COVID and everything like that. They continued through the program and right now they're in Wildwood. They're doing awesome. Their um for colleges, their list of
076academics or all the bands off, it's like this long. Which has helped them get into college multiple um admissions, merit aid, which I'm sure is important to a lot of the kids in this town. Because not everybody qualifies for financially, but it's still hardship, right? Um what concerns me most is when I look at the the uh when I look at the situation that we had with my youngest, which is I'm going to answer your question. You said earlier, "What was the reason for the drop in enrollment?" My youngest, when um she's in eighth grade now, but when she was in sixth grade, right after Mrs. Moore retired, the new teacher came in and you know, she was jazzed. We bought her a new flute because she had prior lessons. Um she would go to
077school and the teacher wouldn't be there. So, the principal would be letting them in in the morning. They would miss lessons constantly. It was such a um negative experience for her that she gave up. That's your reason. That's your answer in my honest opinion is it is COVID is part of it. I know that happened, but a lot of part of it with the younger children that they didn't get just went through the experience with the new elementary teacher, it was lack of consistency is my And And let down expectations. When they get up early to go to a class to learn band and the teachers doesn't show up, what does that say? And regardless of reason, if you get somebody who's part-time, are you really going to get somebody that's committed, that's going to
078do that for the children? Cuz I'll be honest, it hurts me that she is no longer interested in it because she'll pull out a guitar and play with a guitar in the house. But, band, she lost her interest in it because of that. But, my oldest one, like I you know, they're 17. I can't get them to do chores, but they'll be up crack of dawn, you know, running the band in the morning, you know? And they've been doing it throughout. Marching band, jazz band I mean, honestly, any band thing you slap band on it and they're there. I'm telling you. And you know, through all the kids that went through COVID had challenges, music has been such a important part to them and you know, the community that those kids have together. 20 seconds.
079It's just they support each other and it's just heart-wrenching that I feel that this program's going to get ripped apart to save a few dollars. There on the slide, it said that there was like 250 and then some extra 350,000 that's earmarked for something special. What is that? Cuz 250, 300,000 dollars sounds like enough to afford a full-time teacher. >> [applause] >> My name is Jay Tessitori. I uh reside at 27 Jefferson Ave in Mount Ephraim. Last night, I asked my daughter, she's a freshman, to reach out to her bandmates for the limited information that they knew of what was going on and write their concerns. I got one letter. I don't know if the others were scared or not, but um before I start that, I do second everyone's opinions here. I believe that
080they're all very valid. Uh I don't believe two people are going to have the passion two part-time people going to have the passion to uh give these kids what they need moving forward. Someone said last night that uh when you wake up or when you have a baby, you put music to your you put a music to the baby's ears. When someone's dying, they put the music to their ears. These kids are going to be the ones that are creating this music. So, I'm going to go ahead and read this before any of my time runs out. I'm very slow at reading, so I apologize. It says, "Hello, my name is Aaron Messer, and I am a senior at Audubon High School. Right now, I am 1 hour, 20 minutes, and a handful of change
081away at the Wildwood >> [clears throat] >> Indoor Championship. Besides me beside me is the rest of the percussion group. All year, we have fought for the privilege to be here. This doesn't only mean Thursday practice, but it it entails every second we've been in band room working on our craft. The passion I've seen exhibits exhibited by my peers is as is outstanding. And if this proposal goes through, we can't bring that passion to the next generation of music or um musicians. Education should mean enrichment in all courses of studies. I am heartbroken we would sacrifice any facet of of that for any reason at all. The [clears throat] arts uh let me see Let me zoom. Yep. The arts are just as important as other classes, and had I not been involved, I would
082be a different person. School played a huge part in shaping a child's mind, and it is their duty to do so in a meaningful way. To have one person jump between schools would desecrate the meaning of our program. We would we wouldn't ask that of a math teacher or an English teacher, so why must we ask that of the music teacher? It wouldn't only be two or three classes that director would be in charge of jazz band, winter and spring concerts for middle school, high school, advanced band, and beginner band, graduations, project memorial, and personal lessons at match in every day for every instrument section. The quality of the teaching would diminish due to the high amount of work, and we would lose the we would lose the respect of other schools the other schools
083have for us. I am so proud of the point everyone in the band is at in this year. Uh >> [clears throat] >> I've seen so much improvement in all areas. All I want is for the students around me right now and the students coming in the future to have options to become a good musician and to and to be changed by the program in this positive way that I have been. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Um before we continue, if there's anyone else that would like to speak, I I would ask you to um be respectful and refrain from mentioning faculty members either by name or position when you're making your comments. Sarah Berry, 180 Avenue. Uh one quick thing I just wanted to add, these children after school and sports and other curriculars
084have almost 5 days a week to practice, to protect their and protect themselves um safety-wise, health-wise. The mind is important for these kids. These kids cannot afford with their families in Audubon to take private music lessons. So, if you can consider that in a full-time staff member to give the opportunity for these children in this district that they have more time with a full-time instructor, especially at the high school, where they're going to be going off on their own at 18 years old, they're still have underdeveloped minds. Band children, especially when they get older, if you look at all the statistics of any scientist, doctors, politicians in this world, they contribute a lot of their success to their time in the band. Thanks. So, that Hang on one second, Mia. I believe that's another 15
085minutes, so I would like to ask for another extension of 15 minutes. May I have a motion? Motion. Second. Thank you. Okay, Mia. Hi, my name is Mia Coogan, and I currently live at 213 Yale Road in Audubon. Um I would like to share some more perspective from the marching band and indoor percussion ensemble. Um as for myself, I've done almost everything Audubon has to offer music-wise. I've been in marching band for the past 4 years. I've gotten I've gotten up early to come to concert band. I'm a member of the jazz band. I took music theory last year, and I was stage manager of this year's musical. I fully intend to continue my involvement in the arts through college, but if it wasn't for my instructor's dedication to their students, I don't think I
086would have discovered my love for music, at least not to the same degree. I think that or making these positions part-time would be a disservice with my peers and the classes to come. Um I would also like to congratulate the indoor percussion for getting an 89.9 on their um performance tonight, which is out of 100 points score. That's very good. >> [applause] >> And um we were talking about how numbers have dropped since COVID. Um me and my peers and the current teachers and instructors have been really trying to increase um involvement. And in my first year in indoor, we had nine people including myself, and this year they have over 20. So, it's not from lack of effort, it's just from a lack of time. And I really think that we should consider that
087when making these positions positions part-time. Um and I really think that in doing that, member retention is going to be really difficult if you don't have consistency in the teachers and a lack of dedication. And a lot of the people in the band are very scared that a lack of younger kids coming into the system through a change or I don't know, just a difference in the way that um beginning band is starting would lead to a slow death in all of our band programs. And it's really bigger than just um concert band and jazz band and everything. Like, if we don't have people coming in, then we won't have enough people to upkeep the current programs that we have. Um and overall, I think that music is not a quick or easy thing to
088dedicate yourself to, and I feel like we should not treat this position as such. I think that this should be taken like thought about over a course of time, and that's all I have. Sorry. Uh thank you for your time. >> [applause] >> I'll go up. Hi, everybody. My name is Olivia Pacella, 1 Washington Terrace. I'm a 2016 Audubon grad, um and all of my brothers are also Audubon grads, class of 2018, 19, and 23. All four of us have been in marching band and concert band and all of that band since for all of our fourth grade years. Um I did marching band in college. I wouldn't have been able to do that without a letter of recommendation from a high school band teacher. I got scholarships for that in college, and I am
089currently a teacher at Woodbury High School, where I am a tech for the marching band. We are building a program there. It is very, very important that you have a full-time teacher to build that pro program and have consistency with the students from grade 7 through 12. I think having another teacher at the elementary level is also just as important so that you can separate the two. A fourth grader is way different than an eighth grader, way different than a senior. I know that. I'm a teacher. I see that like firsthand now. Um that's all. Thank you. I urge you to consider like re you know, with the budget and everything. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Hello. Um Roxanne Fletcher, Washington Terrace, Audubon. I'm actually Olivia's mother, even though I have a different last name.
090Um So, I'm Olivia's mother, Jacob, Nathan, and Lucas. I did not realize until last night that I have been a part of the music program for 15 years. Since 2008, when Olivia basically is like, "Hey, I'm joining the marching band." We're like, "Okay." Um but she started off with Mrs. Moore. And Mrs. Moore has a wonderful program where she brings them or we brought them to the high school as a recruiting tactic. And they all come up here. The first time I heard that, closing my eyes, Lee had done a whole uh movie montage of that. You would have thought you were hearing a an orchestra, a professional orchestra. Those kids are they're fabulous. They've always been fabulous. Having two part-times I I feel is not the answer as well, because these kids, not only
091do they need lessons and stuff, but my boy they they go down there and they eat lunch. Um you know, with them because they're band geeks. We are a band family. Um I've been in Audubon for 30 years. Not once have I ever come to a board meeting or heard anything about, "Hey, we're cutting the football team to this." Or the soccer team. It's always always we're here fighting for the arts. Band, the um choir, the musicals. Everything. At At one point there was a fall we had a fall play. Um that's long gone. And that was something that once kids were done marching band, they just plop themselves into the auditorium and took that over as well. It We're good. The This This band community, the program is known far and wide. I Like
092I said, been in it a long time as a band parent for 11 years. We would go places and I wouldn't even have on Audubon and we say, "Oh, we're from Audubon." They're like, "Audubon?" There's a high There was a high standard and we were known for We're known far and wide for it. Uh We've been to Mainland Regional, all over, out to Allentown. We also have I would have to say the biggest trophies here. I don't think anybody can say that about sports teams. We've brought home many a a championship. We've gone against 25 bands and come out number one consistently. That doesn't happen with part-time people. Sure, you're going to get a young person in here. I'm going to tell you this, once they turn 26 and they're off their parents' insurance, they're
093going to be looking for another job. That's the bottom line. That's reality. And it Yes, you can't you just can't do it part-time. And the You say the promise of making it a full-time position, um We've heard promises before. >> From a lot of different people higher up. It doesn't happen. There'll be another excuse next year and the year after that. And then we'll be down to nothing. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Anyone? Absolutely. >> [applause] >> Hi, good evening. I'm Mrs. Webb. I live on South Laketo Avenue. Um I guess my main question is um cuz logistically thinking having one full-time person manage both schools, you know, it wasn't working out in my head. But this two part-time scenario, how are you planning to have the part-time hours spread out? Do you anticipate the
094person being in the building five days a week? Or will they be set up so that they have like three or four full long school days a week with one day of flex that essentially gives them a personal day each week. Um so that's my main clarification I would like to know in these part-time positions. Um I guess I'd also like to let it be known I'm a related services provider. I provide occupational therapy in the schools. And um I have 27 years experience and I am a part-time employee. I have been since the birth of my daughter. I've been happily a part-time employee for over 13 years. Um my one school I was in for seven years and then with my company now, they've continued to contract me to the same school. What am
095I going into now? Like four or five years? Anyhow, for someone like me, you can find it may be different in the applicant pool. It's not necessarily going to be a young person. It's not going to be necessarily be somebody that's going to bolt at age 26. It might be a dream job. It might work out for somebody who is like me, whose kid may happen to have every Friday a month be a half day that then they're at home every Friday a month and they're picking up their child and taking them to lunch. And also, if their child ends up being sick, when I call out, I call my principals and I let my supervisor know. Well, the luxury of this schedule for a person like me is that because I'm off Fridays, if
096I miss a Tuesday, my students aren't missing. I can look at my schedule and I'll call them and I'll say, "I can come in Friday and do my sessions." Now granted, I'm not a music teacher. I work related services, so it's a slightly different beast. But if it is giving band lessons, then at least some of the work could be flexed. And for somebody that works part-time, you know, finding the right person and the right fit might be a bit more difficult, but maybe we can find that unicorn and they might be somebody like me that'll stay in a district for seven years and happily do their job and service their students. So, I guess just my main question is the five day a week versus providing somebody the flexibility cuz it might be a
097dream job out there for somebody. >> [applause] >> Anyone else? All right, seeing no one leaping up for the podium, I'm going to close this public participation session. Um if you would just give us a few minutes here, there were some uh questions raised. I just want to make sure that we highlight everything and and and have some answers for you. Um well, that's That's true. That's true. That's true. Right. Exactly. >> Okay, I think I think we have um an idea of um some of the the questions that we can answer for this evening. Um first of all, I'd like to reiterate what Ms. Martel said. Thank you very much for coming this evening. Um it was wonderful to see so many people at a at a board meeting and it was um very
098heartfelt to listen to um your personal stories and and your input and um your passion for the arts here in Audubon. There are many of us here at this table whose children are directly involved in the arts right now in the building um or have graduated and have participated in those programs. So, um we share your passion and your and your dedication um to what those programs can and have done for our students. So, um Ms. Allen is going to answer some of the questions that were raised. Is that my 3 minutes? >> [laughter] >> You were done. Do I get to go home? Uh again, thank you. Um I I just want to reiterate this is not an easy decision for me either. I was was in band from the time I was in
099fourth grade as well. I was very active in music programs. I very much believe in it. I have other people that have done musical music therapy. I do agree with it. I do believe in it. I I'm not doing this because I want to. Um Some of the questions I probably have out of order, but there were some things that I jotted down by people were saying. For example, the bands that are after school like jazz band, concert band, all of those are after school activities. There's the jazz band, marching band, Mansion's bands. These are state all-star bands. These are stipended positions. So, that means that they get an extra allotment of money to do those things. So, they wouldn't have to um miss out on those opportunities even if they were a part-time employee.
100Uh the the one thing that I do want to make sure everybody's aware of as far as sports, uh this is only my second year doing budget. This is only my second year here, but the year that I was coming into the position, Dr. Davis was here and I came for this May meeting with Dr. Davis and they cut all of the freshman sport positions that year. Um even some assistant positions and things were cut back. So, it it's not there's no area that we don't look at. Um the question that was asked about a climate survey, actually we did that last year with our strategic plan. We surveyed all the students, all the teachers, parent and community members. Um we had an outside vendor that or consultant that came in and helped us with
101that and consolidated a lot of that information. That was some of what was used for the beginning of the presentation with the um focus groups. Yes, we had focus groups besides. Yes, it's all still on the website um under BOE, it says strategic plan. So, all of the results of that are there. Um I'm going to let Ms. Roncase answer answer some of the questions about the capital um projects money, but not because I don't have that one. And then the which days would they be it would be 4 days with a flex day or 5 days? It kind of depends on each building and we're going to have to work a little bit with the administration. Um I think there's pros and cons to both. At the high school, we have a zero period.
102So, in theory you want them here every day, but also if they went 4 days and were here as late, that would also make the after school things a little bit easier. At Mansion, it's a 6-day rotating cycle. So, it's not quite a 4-day 5-day thing. The current part-time staff we have comes in a little bit later and leaves a little bit later and does it that. I don't know that that's conducive for what we're looking at. So, we will custom make it for whatever's going to work best to meet the needs of the students and make sure that the band is covered and the lessons are covered and that we're not impacting students aren't having to miss the same class all the time so that they feel comfortable participating in all of those things.
103There was a question on the uh capital projects of the 250,000. That is restricted to only to be used for capital improvements. It cannot pay for any salaries. So, it's only for improvements to the the buildings, HVAC system that that we might need. Um I'm just using that as an example, but has to go through for capital improvements to your buildings. So, that's why that money cannot be used to supplement a teaching position. Oh, that is state law. Yeah, that's not it's not That's just not a Audubon rule. That is um the regulations by the Department of Ed. Um any other board member comments? Ms. Skolnick. I thought um Mrs. Webb's point about a potential flexible schedule was really interesting. Um in order to sweeten sweeten the deal a little bit for somebody doing part-time.
104My question is just if anybody here happens to know if our union contract allows for say one part-time position to have a flexible schedule like that, whereas our part-time um power professionals and things like that have an expectation of being here 5 days a week. Like is it allowed to have something different um for one or two particular teachers over the other part-time staff? I believe uh we currently have staff that don't work 5 days a week that are part-time. Question. Um I I do appreciate the um comment also about um part-time work. I I think that um being a part-time employee myself, um it doesn't necessarily mean less commitment. Um as a matter of fact, it often for me anyway means um quite consistent commitment because I'm able to focus my time on that
105particular thing and I have a student in beginner band and advanced band and in jazz band and um I can't get the fourth one to play the clarinet again, but that's probably best for all of us. Um so, music is extremely important to us. Um I love the idea also of a potential flex time part-time position um being able to create something that works. I also understand that this is for the next year if I'm not mistaken. So, that doesn't mean that this has to be a permanent change. We do have hopefully um the ability to grow the program again. Seeing that there's a small smaller amount of people, um I think having two part-time people would possibly give the energy that we need to get the numbers back up. Because we're going from potentially
10640 hours to almost 60 hours in that case. So, you actually have more capacity to do the recruitments and to get the numbers back up. And there's going to be a good amount of part-time people who are going to be hopeful that it will be full-time eventually. Um and that they would be even more committed and productive to make sure that they grew the program so that that would be necessary. Excuse me, sorry. Stop marrying me. I'm sorry. Uh So, one of the big things that I've always loved about Audubon is the love of arts and the commitment to the arts and not just music. It's you know, drama, art. When One of the things that I loved when my daughter was in the elementary schools was when we would come in at the end
107of the year and they'd have all their artwork up on all the walls. And what I loved is that it wasn't just here's a pretty picture of a you know, of a flower. It was aboriginal art and you got to see all these different they got to learn culture with it. And that's also in music. You learn different cultures. And I don't think there is any member of this board that does not have a personal connection either them themselves or through their children to the arts and don't have that. None of us were happy with the position we were in with this budget. Um it's something that I think we've all struggled with. We listened when we first the budget came out and we learned that we lost even more money. And then we learned
108that the the health insurance no one had ever seen this no one could predict this went up 37%. That's never happened. We've been trying to get different providers of insurance. No one wanted us. We are hopeful because we went out again. Fingers crossed knocking on all the wood canna her poo poo poo and if I had salt I'd throw it over the shoulder. We're hopeful because we did get better numbers that we will get into a better health insurance program. But once again remember we are contractually obligated to do the same or better for our staff. And we want to do the same or better for our staff. Right? We want happy staff, happy students makes a good school district. Um but when we first were looking at this and it was coming out that
109if we took the full million that we could with the health care subsidy which would mean a nine I think a 9.5% tax increase we listened to the community. Ms. Allen listened to the community. We went back to her and said find something. Do something. We can't have it be this high. We all live in Audubon. We all pay the taxes with you. And what came back was okay, we've really looked. We've dug. We're doing this. We're doing that. No one is cutting the band program. No one wants it cut. Everyone wants this to succeed. We want all the arts to succeed. We do know that music improves math, improves disposition, improves mental health which then improves everything else. We all understand that and believe that. And that is why we are going to hold
110Ms. Allen and the administrators to this is a one-year thing. Understanding too that when people are coming in I thought it was wonderful. I didn't know about the two part-time because we were looking at combining one. But I was very excited when I looked at this and saw that Ms. Allen went back and said hey, this is awesome. You know, let's look at this. This is a problem. Okay, we can do this with the one. But you know what we can do? We can get 60 hours versus 40 hours if we do two part-time and we can have someone dedicated to the students in the elementary school because they are different. We do listen than high school students. And I think and when I'm hearing this and I'm hearing unicorns and I'm sorry I really
111do like unicorns. Small fact, national animal of Scotland. Hey, hey. Learning a little something here. Um maybe there is that unicorn. When I hear someone talking with passion about part-time employees and having been a part-time employee at different times in my life if you know that there's a chance that you can then become a full-time employee and control a program and a program like this that does have the respect and the credentials that Audubon School District's music program has, I think you're going to find people that are going to say, all right. Maybe I'm I'm going to it's going to be more difficult. I'm not going to get everything I need as a part-time employee for right now. But if I show and I can get that energy and do this and this means that
112I can now be a full-time director of a program with this type of reputation I think that's not oh, 26 and I'm hitting it. I think that's 26 and I'm getting this job and I'm going to become the director. But understand none of us here want this to be longer than a short-term fix in the hopes that we will find something wonderful and great and this program will be back up into the 200s and maybe the 300s. And that that for me personally and I think just in talking to everyone in every meeting that we have been in that's what I've gotten from every board member here. So. Uh I would just like to start by uh commending the students especially that came up and talked tonight. Takes a lot to be able to do
113that. Uh it's really great. It's I know it's scary but to have your voices heard is really a great thing. >> [snorts] >> And I want to further your your sentiments shared and I I have a question for the board. Is there really a plan to push for like a increase enthusiasm with band cuz yes, there is a steep drop. But and there's mentions that there's that we can build a plan but like will there be a plan? Is I know I phrased that pretty badly but I just want assurance that and I would imagine the community would like that as well that there will be a plan for that. Um if absolutely and that was that was one of the main questions that Mr. Stephen Wilson and I had in our conversation with Ms.
114Allen. What does growing the program look like? Right? So, I think combined with you know, Ms. Allen and our administrators in the two buildings as well as you know, we still have our our instrumental director here. Um Mrs. Moore has offered her expertise and her historical knowledge as well. I mean these are all resources to pull on. I think we need to reach out to the students to find out, hey, what was working uh you know, when they were in fourth through sixth grade? What's working you know, seventh through 12th grade? What would they like to see? I think those are all important important factors to to draw on cuz I think you're absolutely right. I mean that I'm a music teacher. Okay? So, this is near and dear to my heart. Um I know
115historically if you look at what happens to music programs they're full-time, then they're part-time and then they're gone. I I I deeply understand that. I've watched colleagues live through it. That is that is not what I personally want to see happen and I can say you have 10 individuals up here that are highly invested in the success of of this of this program. This is a stinky situation that we're in right now. But um I I do have full faith and confidence that it it will not remain this way and that we will reinvigorate and um bring these programs back to it to where they were. I really do. Good. I wanted to just make sure that that was a I was covered cuz I it was mentioned a couple times there's a that there
116would be a plan but I just want to make sure >> Yeah. They talked about it in this Yep. And again, 10 sets of eyes making sure that that's getting accomplished. I would just want to be clear cuz Ms. Cool asked earlier when we're voting tonight we're voting on the top line numbers. We're not locked into this plan and we I'd still like to discuss the comments we heard at HR committee. And again go over with a fine tooth comb just to make sure our numbers are all where they are. Um I just want to be clear. The We're not locked into this right now. Right. But the top line numbers, yes. Exac- exactly. So, it's the total dollar am- amounts, right? And the line item amounts. But it's not specific position. Am I saying
117that correctly? It's not specific positions because people could retire over the summer, right? Um people could decide to you know, move out of the state and have to take another job someplace else. You know, we may have you know, budgeted for five English teachers but all of a sudden we don't have five English teachers any- you know, so it's it's the total dollar amount. Is that And that's what I'm understanding correctly? >> Correct. The total dollar amount is the total dollar amount. You every month you see where I present you with budget line item transfers. So, money's can be moved um you know, there's there's restrictions to to that. You know, but um yes, they they you know, right now you're voting on the total amount. So, I I want to thank everybody for sharing
118their opinions and their comments and we really appreciate that and we'll at the next HR committee meeting discuss everything that was discussed tonight. And you just kind of stepped on my toes. I just wanted to say Yeah. I just wanted to say first off that I really genuinely appreciate everybody that came up and shared their experiences and um and their insight. And when when people come out there, sometimes the board meetings are just us sitting here talking to ourselves and trying to figure something out and and hearing some of these other opinions. I've I've I've gone through a lot of different thoughts and feelings because of what you shared about the part-time versus full full-time just sitting here listening to you or about, you know, the shape of this program and and where it's going
119and um some of you really made me realize we're just looking at the numbers. And that's why I said, you know, part-time, is that really the the But then when you say teaching a fourth grader is much different than teaching a teaching a 12th grader Duh, I should know that. And that is a very different very different So saying that just kind of smacks me in the face with it and makes me realize we really to do all of that. And just to say all of you your ideas and your experiences really helps us to see it a little more more clearly and and open our eyes, I think. Um so we can enrich the discussion for I am one of those people with a fourth grader that just started this year playing the clarinet
120trying to figure out how to make it not squeal. That has been tough this year. So I am in the earliest phases of this program and I want to see to She's But she's She's working on it and I want to see that And um I I just, you know, I I really want to see this program or get more excited program and get more invested And so that's that's really where I come from. I I came into this thinking I don't want this to go away. I want this to get get stronger and continue to get stronger to get these girls well invested in a community like these people are describing. See going forward. I am a bit outspoken on the board. I think some people will know that. I know it's shocking. And
121I think I'm also known as something that I'm passionate about. I'm like a dog with a bone and I'll keep coming back, keep coming back. This is something I'm passionate about. So I'll make you my personal promise that it will be something that I'll bring up and watch what will happen. Just talking about a dog with a bone. My first year on the board one book, one town. Still looking for it, Amy. See? See, she's just like, "Oh god, not the one book, one town." I will personally I promise it's something I know you don't know me personally. Some of you know me a little bit. But that's something The only thing we can do is tell you that this is something that we believe in and that we are going to stay on top
122of it and our goal is to have it be full-time two people. So I've been on the board for many, many years. We're not going to discuss how many. Um however, if I weren't on the board, I'd be sitting out with everybody sitting there and I would have been at the podium championing championing the um band 100%. So thank you very much. Um I just want to go on record 2006, 2010, 11 and 2013. Four children all through the band, okay? 13 years as a marching band parent and um my two sons both did football and marching band and during halftime they took off their uniforms in order to compete or to participate in the marching band at home home games. So thank you very much. It does it I'm getting all emotional because I'm
123that passionate about it. It takes a lot to get up to the podium. We do very much listen to everybody and what they want to say. We don't take this lightly at all. So thank you. So I am a graduate of Audubon High School. Um a music therapist and um so grateful for Mr. Delouche's music theory class. I've talked about it at our last meeting. Do it No, I don't want a part-time job. I'm not qualified anyway. I'm a music therapist, not a music instructor. Um So, you know, again that that personal connection to music and the arts and everything like that here. Um to Ryan's question, you're asking about like what is the plan to grow? And I think there's an opportunity as Alan as you're interviewing candidates for the position to ask them
124how do you see us potentially growing these programs? What have you seen out in the field or maybe you saw in school to help you know, grow programs. And using that potentially, I know I can't tell you how to hire people, but potentially using that to um kind of choose those candidates that seem to have a really clear idea and have that passion and could incorporate that into their plans. I will also say that I'm happily happily a part-time employee. My husband has benefits through his job which allows me the opportunity to be part-time and be on the board and be on Audubon celebration committee and all these things that take so many hours, but I don't have to spend all that time at work because I have benefits provided already. So but I'm very
125very dedicated to my jobs, too. So I understand that you're you are narrowing your your employment field a little bit by having part-time as opposed to full-time. But please don't be super discouraged that there's going to be no one that would want a part-time position at least to start because like Ms. Di Francesco said, like there are those of us out there who appreciate that and look for those opportunities, too. And I'm 20 years in my field and happily part-time, so. Do go back to our agenda. We do [clears throat] not have any items under governance. Uh so I'd like to recognize Mr. Gatti for operations. Mark Gatti, percussion pit boss from 2016 to 2020. Yeah, you believe me. I will be uh a thorn in the side here to make sure that this program
126grows and not just uh stays where it's at, it grows. I would like to thank everybody tonight, which does not surprise me, by the way, the band parents and band members came out. Um But also at previous meetings where we have talked discussed the budget, we've had a lot of input on this and it has given um a good view of what the community is looking for and their understanding of it. Um I'm fairly new to being the chair of operations, but I can tell you one of the things I did learn is that the budget as as um RBA says is uh it's it's a living organism, really. It shifts constantly. People come, people go. Normally uh we hear about the hits, but sometimes it's just moving money around and we do a fantastic
127job with that and I'm sure that if funding comes along, uh it will be considered for this. So tonight we have one thing to vote for vote on. Shouldn't say vote for. Don't want to treat anybody that way. It is to approve the adoption of the 2026-27 school budget. Okay. Just The the numbers in the total just for everybody, if you notice there's an extra zero um at the end of under 26-27 budget and under the Yeah, yeah. And under the tax levy. So those zeros at the end of those two do take them off. Got it. All right, may I have a motion for item number one under operations? >> Motion. Roll call, please. Jal Candida? Yes. Alison Cox? >> Yes. Danielle Di Francesco? Yes. Mark Gatti? Yes. Sarah Coolen? Alison Lipsky? Yes. Andrea
128Robinson? Yes. Bill Wilson? Steven Wilson? Yes. Amy Davis? Yes. Motion's passed. >> Thank you. All right, we have a second public participation session. This can be on any topics. It does not have to be specific to the agenda. So if there's anyone who would like to come up and make a comment on anything, you're welcome to. Hi again. Um Valerie Messer, 260 Wyoming Ave. So just a general question cuz I don't normally come to these things. You just kind of lit my fire with the topic this evening, to be honest with you. Um but just in general, like one thing I've seen is with my eighth grader is that specifically in math, um sometimes in their science class, they will get uh like they'll do poorly on a test and they don't really get the
129appropriate feedback or breakdown of how they did a problem wrong. And I don't know if this is the right forum for this or not now. Okay, how do we address that because I feel that there's a I learn from seeing my mistakes and I tell them you did something wrong, fix it. Like figure it out. Who do we address with that? I'd only encourage you to write to the teacher first. If you don't get the kind of response that you want or they don't respond to you then go to the principal. We have curriculum people also that will help get involved if you're not getting the answer but start with the teacher and ask them what's going on. I mean is your child in class asking not asking whatever curious to see what they say
130but always start there and then from there you can always go to a vice principal or principal just continue until you get someone to answer you and help you with the concerns. It's a very valid concern. >> It's just it's something that I've seen with several classes over the years with my kids and it's ever since we have this whole Chromebook thing. Right. We don't they don't get the sheets back like we used to. Ah. Yes. Yes. You know who I am. I want to thank the board for their time, energy, and thoughtful debate you've always dedicated to this process as well as to community members and students who have spoken up throughout the discussions. Your commitment to working through the very difficult task of balancing the budget is appreciated. I also want to clarify
131an important point about employee benefits. Benefits include health insurance and dental coverage but just as importantly they include membership in the state pension system. Employees working fewer than 32 hours per week are not eligible for TPAF. That's the Teachers Pension Annuity Fund and must instead be enrolled in DCRP, the Defined Contribution Retirement Plan. While DCRP is part of the broader pension system, it does not function as a pension. And time accrued in DCRP cannot be rolled into TPAF. That is you put money into an account can't really judge very much what gets done with it and when it comes to retire you can't consolidate it with anything else and when it comes time to retire you withdraw money from that account and when it's gone it's gone. So point of education, thank you for your
132attention to these details and for your continued commitment to making informed decisions on behalf of our district. My name is Claire Hendricks. I'm 127 Oakland Avenue. I had a couple questions. Why do we need a um assistant superintendent? And can they be part-time if instead of our um music directors? That's it. Thank you. It's been a long night. I'll be very fast. This this been bothering me a little bit. I from a personal perspective I for those of you who spoke up about the benefits of being a part-time employee several people said that. I I want to say personally I mean no disrespect when I voice my concerns about a part-time employee in the band. I am a full-time employee and a part-time employee and I give everything to both and I understand that and
133from a personal level I I meant no disrespect there and I do understand that yes we might this could work. We might be able to find someone part-time who could really build this program. I know it can be done. I've done it myself. So that's it's been eating at me so I wanted to make sure I got that out before I left. Thank you again for your time. I have to say one other thing. Sorry, it's Sue Moore again. You were talking about how you would increase the program and part of the way that I would do it is being around a lot. I had lunch duty every day and I would be with the third graders and I would be talking to them about the band. What are you going to play when you're
134in fourth grade when you're old enough to be in band? And I mean that's just being there is a really important aspect and another reason why I think full-time is an important part of the job. That's all. One more thought myself. Dottie Dejarnette, 139 Virginia Avenue. I am also a teacher as many of you are aware. I teach at a local district where I have a superintendent who likes to say to us um students spell trust t i m e time. Okay? Very famous superintendent he knows who he is and I'm sure you know him as well. Um he says that and that is my concern with having two part-time positions. Audubon statistically has high levels of all-state students, all-state students, all-eastern students in both the choir and the band and this doesn't happen by
135accident. This happens by time. Those lessons you talk about that's how they prepare for those auditions. That's how your name gets out there. Audubon has such a respected music program. I know because my school that I work at is down there trying to beat them right now. Their indoor percussion in Wildwood. My student you know my I have students that I direct in theater that are down there right now. So and it's it's this lovely camaraderie and this beautiful community and you have such a beautiful thing here but time is necessary to grow a program. Time is necessary to complete you know to to to forge trust and relationships and that's what my children who have come through this school got from their instructors. They got time. They got knock knock knock someone was there.
136I hope when they knock knock knock someone will still be there to open that door if there are two part-time positions. Anyone else? All right. Thank you to everyone for your time this evening. I know some people needed to leave. I understand because of the late hour. Again, we do appreciate your time and your contribution this evening. The board is going to go into another executive session. Well no, actually we didn't have a first executive, did we? We're going into executive session. The next meeting our regular scheduled meeting is actually Wednesday, May 13th. It's a little bit early because of um the obligation to have our contracts approved by May 15th. So it will be 6:30 p.m. here in the media center. The action meeting will begin at 7:00. Can I have a motion into
137executive session? Motion. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, thank you. Be taken.