Presentation of Proposed new Borough Hall

001Check. Check. Check. One, two, one, two. Check. The mics are mics are on. >> There's no game for you right now. No, I doubt it. >> Ladies and gentlemen, >> hello. I don't have a gavl anymore here. Your attention, please. >> Thank you very much. >> 7 o'clock. We're going to start the meeting. Oh, wow. >> Can we please all rise for a moment of silent prayer? Salute to the flag. It's behind us. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Roll please. >> Council member >> here. >> Ler >> here. >> Shaq >> here. >> Michelle >> here. >> Thank you. In complian with the open public meeting act, notice of

002meeting of this body has been given by the adoption of a resolution at the January 5th, 2026 organization meeting and the dissemination thereof which has fixed the time and the place of this meeting. I need a motion to accept and file the minutes of the February 23rd, 2026 regular meeting. >> So move second. >> All in favor? >> All opposed. >> Hearing no opposition, the motion carries. Resolution 26-62 for passage of the consent agenda. And tonight before we begin, uh we have a a an alteration to our consent agenda. Tom, can you please explain that? >> Yes. Uh what happened was the uh resolution to transfer the liquor license, we had a request from their attorney to delay it until the next meeting on the 23rd. As to the uh authorization of the mayor and

003clerk to execute the agreements with the affordable housing people, our housing attorney uh Mr. Serenian has requested that we carry those two until the joint meeting with the planning board on Wednesday. So that was done. And the uh the other one was the administrative manual. As it turns out, we don't need an administrative manual. You only need that if you're going to rehab existing So since these five units under the affordable housing plan are new units, we don't have to do that. So that we just remove those resolutions and the balance will remain. Thank you. Resolution A to adopt the affirmative marketing plan prepared by Peter Van Den Kui PP ACIP of Acuity Consulting Services. B to oppose the NJD real rules in their current form. C to adopt a temporary capital budget relative to

004various improvements. D to accept a spending plan that is amended to the housing element and fair share plan. And E to improve an encroachment permit for 10 Ocean Avenue for decorative fencing. All matters listed above are routine in nature by council and shall be enacted by one resolution. Should any member of council or member of the public seek separate discussion of any item listed above, that item shall be removed and discussed separately. Any member of council? >> No, sir. >> No. No. >> Any member of the public? >> Yes, sir. Mr. Bond. Um, I'm going to just say this in the beginning. Whenever we have anybody speaking, please state your name and address for the record and you can come up to this podium here to my right. Um, and you can state your question

005or comment. >> James Bond, 10009 Riverview. uh for resolution D. Uh can you amplify what is in various improvements? >> Yes. What those various improvements are is it's basically the bond ordinance. We included it in the capital improvement plan in 2025, but because we carried it into this year, it's no longer valid. So we had to amend the temporary budget to allow for this in the event they passed the ordinance you would have to have this ordinance in place because we don't have a budget. So it would be part of the temporary budget. >> Right. So um the bond ordinance is resolution uh 2666. >> Yes. >> So it hasn't come up yet. >> No. So we have a resolution ahead of that to >> well this just permits it to go forward. If we

006don't pass this resolution we can't entertain the bond. >> All right. Thank you. >> You are. >> Anyone else from the public? >> Yes. George Murvine 825 Club Road uh resolution A regarding the uh affirmative marketing plan. Is there a copy of that marketing plan that can be that we can see we can review? Has everybody had the opportunity to review that marketing plan? >> There is a marketing plan and uh basically it's a plan that is used. It's required by the state. So, it's basically a boilerplate type document. And what it it does is it just basically is an assurance that the administrative agent is going to make every effort to see that these people are made aware that these units exist and that they can be put on a list to be vetted

007to see if they qualify. But if you want to and I would be happy to give you a copy. I can Well, I only have the one copy with me, but I can make you a copy. >> Is Is it the same copy that was in the fair housing uh plan, the 154 page? >> That's a spending plan. >> No, there's there was a resolution uh there was a plan in there about a marketing plan, too, right? >> Uh I don't think so because we just hired the administrative agent and he's the person that authored it. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah, this says affirmative marketing plan came right from the 154 page document. >> Well, you have a date. >> So, my question is who who penned this? Was it our planner or was

008it the uh the permanent marketing? Uh >> it would have been the planner because we didn't have an we didn't have an administrative agent at the time. >> Okay. So, I I don't see how we can uh the council can approve a resolution if we don't have it in front of us and so forth, but I just don't see that. Um I have a couple more if it's okay. the um I think letter E was crossed off um the excuse me the affordable housing the um the original resolution G to execute an agreement with Habitat for Humanity for the Bori Avenue is is there an agreement that we can read? Do you have an agreement already? >> That's in that's why we're not doing it tonight because we only have a draft and Mr. Serenian

009is still working. That's why he said to carry it until Wednesday. >> Okay. So, can you if you don't mind, I was just got in. What resolutions are we carrying over to Wednesday? Can you just refresh our memory here, please? >> Sure. Just let me pull out the agenda. We're going to carry C. We're going to carry F. We're going to carry G. And we're going to And A is E is no longer valid. That's removed completely. >> A and B. No. C FG >> FG are all gone on Wednesday. >> No. Well, no, not C. C is carried to the next meeting. >> All right. Thank Thank you. And uh how about letter H >> to accept the spending plan. >> Yeah, the spending plan is pretty much the same plan that was amended

010to the uh original plan. It was written by Kendra Lily and it basically what it does is it is an estimation of how much money we should realize from developer fees which would then go into a trust fund that we could use to meet future expenditures that the burrow is in is has to meet as a result of the fair share housing plan. In other words, legal fees, uh administrative fees, and so on. >> Okay. Um, of all the hearings I've been to, I I don't recall ever hearing a number uh that's going to be related to this uh um spending plan. >> If you hold on for a second, I'll get it for you. >> Okay. The uh according to the plan, it's estimated that we should realize over the next 10 years 1,452,000.

011All right. And those fees are to be used just for the >> just for affordable housing. >> But but two of them, the one at Bory Avenue and the one here on the >> Not necessarily anything that would relate to affordable housing. >> Oh, anything anything. >> Let's say if one of the someone came in and wanted to develop in the overlay zone. Yeah. >> And we had to do, you know, there was cost involved in our review of their submission, we could charge that off because our legal fees are killing us to be honest. So, right this would be a blessing for us. Okay. All right. I think that's all I have on those resolutions and thank you very much for your time. >> Very well. Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Move the

012resolution. >> Council member Salone. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Resolution 26-63 to pay bills. And I'll turn that over to our finance chairman, Councilman Michelle. >> Thank you, mayor. Please resolve that the following bills be that the mayor or president of council be authorized to draw orders on the chief finance finance officer in the amount of same for payment of the bills of March 9th, 2026 in the amount of $53,51.82. >> Second, >> yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you. The time has arrived for a hearing and further consideration of calendar year 2026, an ordinance to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a cap bank NJSA4A 40-45.14. I need a motion to open the hearing. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. Hearing no opposition.

013Motion carries. The hearing is open. Tom, can you explain that please for the public? >> Yes. Uh, every year the state sends us a sheet which basically tells us that our cap is 2%. Is a and this this year it is one is 2% but we're permitted to go to 3.5%. So over the past years we have always taken advantage of the 1.5. And what happens is I mean this year I think we're probably going to need it. I we were still developing the 2026 budget, but at this point uh by doing this, we'll be able to add an additional amount of money that we'll have in our coffins to try to cover the cost of the appropriations that are considered to be within cap. And that would uh basically come out to a uh

014increase of 144,000 to 7438. Now also too, you should know we we can bank money. So if we do the 3.5 and say we only need three, the difference can be banked. You have to wait a year to be able to use that. But I can tell you with the 2024 bank, we had $107,58363. Now in 2025 we only have 92 34383 and we can't use that until the ensuing year. So that would be in 20 27. >> Does any member of council have any questions? >> No sir. >> Any member of the public? >> Seeing none, I need a motion to close it here. >> So move second. >> All in favor? I. >> All opposed. You're in opposition. The motion carries. Resolution 26-64 for passage on final reading. >> So movement. >> Yes.

015Thank you. Resolution 26-65 to authorize publication of passage and adoption in the co-star according to law. So move. >> Second. Thank you. >> Council member. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Time has arrived for a hearing and further consideration of a bond ordinance providing for various capital improvements appropriating $15 million therefore and authorizing the issuance of 14,250,000 in bonds and notes to finance a portion of the cost thereof authorized in and for the burough greel in the county of M state of New Jersey. I need a motion to open the hearing. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> all opposed. Hearing no opposition. The motion carries. Now, before we begin this portion of the meeting, we're going to have some presentations made and we are going to hear all

016the presentations first and then we will allow for all questions. Please be considerate. There's a lot of people here that would like to talk. So hopefully your questions will be concise and not repetitive. If you hear the answer to one of your questions that you had by somebody previous, let's not try to, you know, replay that again. We are going to hear from the burough administrator first. We're going to hear from our architect Anthony Iino second. We're going to hear from our engineer Mr. Hill third and then we are going to hear from our chief um uh Chief Olsen. So now we'll do is Mr. Nolan if you want to start that capital improvement funds. Just so the residents understand we didn't do this lightly. We've been working toward this for a number of years.

017You can see that in 2019 we only put $10,000 in capital improvement. We've been able to up that and now in 2025 we have 2,250. So our total amount that we now have in capital improvement is 4,2871 171. So these are funds that could be used to help to defay the cost of any capital improvement including this building. So we have been basically preparing for this event. Now the next slide basically is our debt redemption. We also have been redeeming debt. What we do is we haven't been selling bonds. When we have a cash flow problem, what we do is we take a bond anticipation note. Oh, sorry. Uh we take a bond anticipation note. We haven't had to do that either because we've so far we've been able we have a self-funding program. We

018budget money every year and this year we had $750,000 in order to pay debt. So you can see that uh our debt redemption schedule has been pretty much working. Our total current debt is the 5 million I can't really see that 28051 and uh the bond ordinance would be 14250. So that would bring our total debt to 38051. But as you can see the state permits us anytime you do a bond ordinance you have to submit it to the state. You can't just arbitrarily spend money. So the state can approve based on our equalized table of ratables. You have to file what they call a supplemental debt statement. And what they do is they average the last three years value of ratables to come up with the number and then 3% of that number is

019what you can bond. So we could actually bond up to over $75,000. >> I'm sorry 75. >> I'm being optimistic. >> But uh >> so basically the total debt right now is 0.201%. The new debt would add to I >> 766. I guess you can't turn the lights down. And uh so basically if we the increase to our net debt would be the 0.5 65. So it's it's a lot but it's it's manageable is what the point I'm trying to make. Now the bond ordinance itself is divided into the streets and drainage is 2 million. We have a lot of street and drainage projects. We've been delaying defraying for years. So, we're trying to catch up with that. And if you live on a street that needs to be paved, you'll understand that this is

020something that we really have to do. The site improvements and demolition of the existing building would be the 1.5 million. The new building is estimated at 10 million and we have a contingency fund of 1.5 million. And that's basically how we plan to be able to build this building. And that I believe concludes the financial portion. And I'll turn it over to building design. >> Thank you, Tom. Good evening, every everyone. My name is Anthony Ioino. I'm the architect for the burrow. My firm was hired to evaluate the spatial needs of the burrow hall, which includes the burrow offices as well as the police department. Um, and I'm going to introduce the concept plans for that this evening. Hopefully you can all see this from the back, but I wanted to start with an aerial

021of the Burrow Hall site. So, in our previous meeting, there were questions as to the size of the existing building. The existing building is 4,000 square feet per floor, two floors. Um, it may be hard to see back there, but the arrow points to the building. You can see Union Lane going up and down on the image on the right and Route 71 at the bottom. The new building will be in the middle of this property. Affordable housing would be on the left side. Um Carrie will explain this the civil engineer will explain the layout of the new building relative to the site. The idea is that the new building could be put up while the existing building stays in operation to save cost. Right? There would be a phenomenal amount of cost to relocate

022the police department and burough offices for the year and a half or so that the new building would have to go up. So strategically this this saves me. When we were designing this building, the first thing we did was to meet with all of the department heads, right? So we met with the chief and his staff. We met with Tom and all of the different burough departments to identify the needs and the wants and to filter out a lot of the wants to get to an efficient plan. Right? So the building has two floors. This is the bottom floor which holds all of the police department as well as common spaces. This first floor is 9,000 square feet. The police department is about 8,000 square ft of that usable space on the right side. Oh,

023I should say that the bottom of this image is Route 71. So the burrow hole entrance would face the main road while the police entrance comes in from the rear for privacy. The police administration offices would be on the right hand side while the support spaces uh different offices and um meeting spaces for the staff would be here on the left. The prisoner handling would be up on the uh upper left which is a one-story volume. The upper floor contains all of the burrow offices and a community room or if you will council chambers. So many of you know the existing council chambers which is undersized for today's uses but also it was originally planned as a courtroom. So if you go there you'll notice as opposed to where we are today the seats are

024locked in place. So that room can only be used for that kind of use. What we're doing here with the larger meeting room on the lower right side is all of the chairs are movable. So just like this room you can take the chairs out of the way. Seniors can use it during the day. other community room uh groups can use it throughout the day while the building is open. So, this upper floor has again uh the public meeting space, conference room for mayor and council, planning, zoning, and other community groups. Um the main corridor that separates those meeting spaces from the office spaces on the lefthand side. And I know this is small and all of this I believe is going to be up on the website so you can look at it closer.

025But what we have are all the service points along this main corridor, public restrooms, elevator and stairs on both sides. I have to point out that the building, any new building has to be fully code compliant, right? And that is barrierfree access ADA compliance. Um it also um needs to be in terms of the police department compliant with the state department of corrections regulations which your current facility is not. That's much better. Thank you. Um so this new layout is bigger by default than the existing because the existing is not compliant and it's not ADA accessible. You should know that a public facility, a public-owned building has absolutely no exceptions. Many years ago, the federal law came into place where every public building has to be fully ADA compliant. Otherwise, you're you're susceptible to uh

026lawsuits if somebody can't use the facilities. And right now, you can't use that facility if you're in a wheelchair. in the new facility completely compliant all the way through. The next few slides are images renderings of what the building would look like. This first image is from 71 and it shows the burrow hall entrance here. The building the materials on the building I will say are take its cues from the existing building is red brick. We have uh red brick for the for the main body of the building. a one-story volume that wraps around to the backside as a darker gray building uh brick to not call attention to it. Uh there's a stone base that wraps the sides and marks the entrances. The upper floor has a cement board siding and trim. The roof

027is a metal uh standing seam mansaw roof that will hide all the mechanical equipment. And the very top of the building is only 33 feet tall. we start to wrap around. So, this is closer to the street corner of 71 in Union Lane. And you begin to get a hint of the police on the right hand side. And then wrapping all the way around uh you see the police entrance and then the uh police garage on with the gray brick to sort of keep that in the background. Um and again the the body of the first floor is the police and the main part of the role of the second floor is the administration. Thank you. Uh next up would be the civil engineer to talk about the site and the u phasing. >> Thank

028you Anthony. Um hello everybody mayor council members of the public. My name is Carrie Hill. I'm from H2M Architects and Engineers. I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey and I'm here to walk you through the civil site design uh for the New Burough Municipal Site. So, uh starting off just to orient us, we have 71 down on the bottom side here, Union Lane running here. I know this is going to be a little tricky because it's a little small looking at it now, but um first and foremost, let's start with the southernmost point of the property. This sliver of property here. So the property line is out approximately here. The sliver here encased in this trapezoidal rectangle is essentially the affordable housing site which was dedicated as part of the affordable housing

029plan adopted earlier last year. Um and the remaining space over here is the entirety of the proposed uh burrow municipal building site. Um as we move further up from the south, you're going to run into the municipal entrance. It's about here. So ultimately come in there's a small bank of dedicated parking here. Um associated with that are two fully compliant ADA accessible parking spaces. Um as well as an additional ADA compliant ramp here which will lead you directly into the site. Um for any overflow for the any municipal purposes, you have a bank of parking off to the north here. Um and additionally on the parking site or the police side of things, excuse me, you have a additionally a small bank of parking um immediately at the entrance of the for the police. Um

030these are for intended for people who are your common everyday visitors. Similarly on the municipal side um with some ADA accessible uh parking spaces as well dedicated for there. Uh overall, as far as parking goes on the site, the current municipal building as it stands right now totals out at about 55 spaces. Uh four of those spaces are exclusively for ADA and that includes the two spaces that are out at the moment uh out on Union Lane. So, we're going to we're proposing to remove those spaces out on Union Lane in order to make this site ultimately work. Um, so again, now we'll have ADA spaces that correspond to ADA compliant entrances where at the moment, as Anthony mentioned, we do not meet the ADA regulations. Um, and as far as the other components on

031this site, there are a handful of ancillary items, a trash receptacle, generator, small shed. Um, but ultimately this is the the general layout for the overall site. Um, this plan is a little tough to see. It was originally hard to see at the very beginning, but I'll do my best to illuminate for you. This is the grading, drainage, and utility plan. And what really matters on this plan are um this project being an o over an acre of disturbance meets what's called a NJ uh major development designation which boils down to um this site is required to meet a whole slew of different requirements from uh NJD from just in regards to handle how to handle uh storm water runoff. So to counter that um we've put together an entirely compliant uh storm water design

032and that ultimately leads to a small uh infiltration basin that you can barely make out in the affordable housing site and a larger uh subsurface infiltration basin uh that'll be located adjacent to the parking bank. One thing I wanted to mention very quickly from the last plan that I did not mention. Um, my parking numbers for the total of 56 spaces in this area does not include the number of spaces that are at the affordable housing site. The affordable housing site will have its own independent 11 spaces which includes its own ADA space. Um, so moving on, this is the first of three phasing plans. Obviously, one of the things that comes up um with a project such as this is we're going to have to construct a building while maintaining the existing municipal building.

033And the layout that you see um was designed to do exactly that where we're going to be able to construct the new building while the existing building remains. So, the green that you see up here is the parking that's intended primarily for municipal staff as well as any visitors. There's a small bank of uh stacked parking intended for the municipal staff as well as a slew of um I believe the number is either 14 or 15 spaces intended for those visiting the municipal building uh during this construction phase. The area within the red is designated exclusively for the construction effort. Um so that'll be fenced off, you know, locked, gated, the whole nine. Um the second phase is after this building has been constructed and now is in place. You have the uh existing municipal

034building. All of the materials and files and everything have been moved out of that building and into the new municipal building. We're now at a point where we can demo the old building. Um, and with that, we'll be able to have the same bank of parking that's up here, which will be utilized for, uh, police efforts. Um, as well as those who are visiting the police side of the new building, and a completely separate, uh, municipal side that will serve, um, any, you know, the municipal staff as well as, um, the, uh, any visitors that need to go pay their taxes or of the sort. Um, additionally, all the ADA uh, spaces will be in effect at this point. and um they will be able to to serve the public as needed. The final phase

035of this uh this project is the existing building's been now removed and um the final steps are to install that that storm water basin as I mentioned earlier and finish up the remaining site and tie everything together for the finished product um that you saw earlier on that that original site plan. Um and the intention is that this would be a smooth transition from from start to finish um to the best of our ability given the site constraints. Uh lastly, this is the landscape plan. Um as you can see or barely make out with this these faint lines, there are a handful of existing trees along 71. Those trees with the exception of one because of shifting the uh the driveways here. One tree will be removed, but the remaining three will stay. We're going

036to introduce a whole handful of new street trees along uh Union Lane and 71. And additionally, there is a large amount of landscaping proposed at each of the islands, additional landscaping in the the green banks over here as well as over here. And for those wondering um will the police efforts on the western side of the building, will they be visible from the school? Well, we're proposing quite a number of trees to help block out that view. So, as far as actually seeing what's going to be happening on the police side of the world, um it'll help significantly minimize what you may see and those will be green um through all seasons. >> And that is all for me. Next up is Chief and council, ladies and gentlemen, good evening and uh thank you once

037again for allowing me this opportunity to uh speak to you tonight in the interest of not reinventing the wheel. Um and just asking for the patience from those who have already heard uh have heard me speak on this topic uh previously. I'm going to read my statement that is very similar to what I had presented back on January 28th. Once upon a time, more than 35 years ago, I was a 19-year-old police officer working in that building next door during its last renovation when the police department only occupied half of the basement. And at that time, the structure was already nearly 75 years old. Since then, I have spent my entire adult and professional life working in that building. And because of that experience, I believe that I am in the unique position of being

038able to provide a firsthand and factual assessment of why the Burrow of Belle is in need of a new building and more specifically as it pertains to my role here this evening, a new police headquarters. There are numerous deficiencies within our current facility. But in the interest of clarity, I want to begin by addressing one point directly. There has been some public discussion on social media suggesting that quote mold is not the problem and that is incorrect. Mold is a huge problem and is a serious and ongoing issue within police headquarters. Several officers have formally reported health concerns that are directly related to their work environment in that basement. Documented conditions including mold present on interior walls, ceilings, and HVAC and structural components. A gas generator is located inside of police headquarters, and that room

039shares wall and ceiling space with occupied areas within the basement. That room is vented directly to outdoors, allowing unconditioned air to mix with conditioned air. As a result, pipes and HVAC trunk lines sweat continuously, creating standing moisture that leads to persistent mold growth on insulation and ceiling tiles, many of which are repaired or replaced repeatedly throughout the year. These conditions have also contributed to mold development within the HVAC system itself. Based on the recommendations of two professional air quality and remediation companies, we currently operate two commercial air purification and dehumidification systems on a 24-hour basis. And yet mold still exists. The HVAC system is antiquated and insufficient for the building's needs. Due to design limitations and air flow restrictions, certain areas of headquarters are excessively hot during the summer and extremely cold during the winter.

040As a matter of fact, we currently have nine electric space heaters downstairs that are in current use just to maintain basic working conditions. Water intrusion commonly occurs throughout the building through foundation cracks that have been repeatedly patched and painted over for decades. In our prisoner processing room, water intrusion has damaged electronic components and flooring and rusted out filing cabinets that had to be removed and discarded. During prolong rainfall, water seeps up through the tile flooring on the east side of the basement where our kitchen and mail locker room are located, further contributing to mold growth and structural deterioration. So clearly there is mold, moisture, and water intrusion within police headquarters. But consider this. Even if we find the magic solution and successfully and permanently remediate those issues, we would still be left with an outdated,

041inefficient, overcrowded, non-compliant basement that serves as a police headquarters. The fundamental problem is not just environmental. It is structural, operational, and systemic. So, as you've heard, I worked in the old building, and I can tell you there was mold. And I've been working in that building since the last renovation when we were told all those issues would be fixed. And yet, here we are, and it still has mold. And I can tell you that as long as we occupy that 108-year-old basement, that building, it will always have mold. And just one more point point on this topic. I've heard some that said, you know, well, I have a basement in my home and that basement, some water comes in and we take care of it and maybe there's some mold and we remediate it and

042it's gone. I mean, come on. It's a basement. That may be true and I don't disagree with that. But what I want everybody to consider is what I just described to you is our everyday working conditions. It's not just a basement to go down into once in a while to grab the Christmas decorations or do a load of laundry. It is our everyday working conditions 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. In addition, our police headquarters is not compliant with mandatory standards in accordance with titles two and three of the Americans with Disabilities Act. There is no accessible public entrance into police headquarters for operations, report taking, or records functions. Likewise, there is no ADA compliant access for detainee intake or processing. In July of 2023, with more than 35

043years of exemptions, the New Jersey Department of Corrections denied our application for continued exemption. Their findings cited multiple deficiencies including the absence of a sallyport area, unsafe stairwell access for officers and detainees, the inability to accommodate handicap detainees, proximity to an adjacent school, and quote deteriorating detention area conditions involving cracks, gaps, and water damage. So, while we're on this topic to address a common question, why are other police departments operating without Sallyports? And the answer is those facilities are still being granted exemptions because they don't require detainees to be escorted down multiple flights of stairs, nor are they located immediately adjacent to a school. It has also been suggested that detainees could simply be transported to another municipality. That is not a viable option. from from a liability standpoint, no surrounding agency is willing to

044assume responsibility for our detainees. Why would they? We wouldn't. From a manpower perspective, transporting detainees out of town to another police department would require removing our onduty patrol officers from Belle, leaving the burrow without police coverage. Additionally, neighboring agencies do not utilize the same records and processing computer systems and platforms that we do. Whether we take in one detainee or 100 detainees, the law requires full compliance with Department of Correction standards under Title 10A, Chapter 34 of the New Jersey Department of Corrections Administrative Code. And the idea of a full renovation of our current facility does not eliminate those obligations. Another significant safety concern is the absence of required fire protection systems in the basement level, which according to code is classified as a windowless basement with no secondary means of egress. As a result

045of those conditions, the New Jersey Division of Fire and Safety was notified. Their findings revealed that police headquarters has no smoke detectors, no fire detection, no notification systems, and no fire suppression systems in place. Today, the burrow, as of today, the bureau has received quotes from independent fire safety and security companies, and the cost of the installation and retrofitting of a mandatory sprinkler system and fire and smoke detection equipment is in excess of $500,000. Operationally, law enforcement has changed significantly over the past several decades. Because the prior renovation did not anticipate any growth or modernization, we have been forced to repurpose existing space simply to meet current mandates and standards. Interview rooms were not planned for, requiring legally mandated recording recorded interviews to be conducted in an already occupied office that had to be v

046that has to be vacated when the occasion arises. Expansion space was never considered and the facility has been at capacity since the day we moved in after the last renovation. Nevertheless, since then, additional responsibilities, mandates, and circumstances have caused us to expand in an already critically overcrowded and strained space, including but not limited to an increase in manpower, accreditation requirements, detective bureau expansion, IT needs, training requirements, the assignment of a full-time school resource officer, bodywn video storage, changes in clerical and oper, requirements, community policing functions, office of emergency management functions, officer wellness, resiliency and fitness programs, and the hiring of female officers, just to name a few. Locker room facilities are overcrowded. Storage shortages have forced the conversion of shower stalls into storage areas and the placement of equipment cabinets in the mail locker room

047directly adjacent to our toilets and urinals. There is no dedicated training or meeting spaces requiring mandatory training and meetings to be conducted in our detainee processing area which is not permitted under Department of Corrections regulations. Also, any training being conducted in that space has to be halted or cancelled and that space vacated when a prisoner is taken into custody and brought into headquarters for processing. An evidence intake processing and long-term storage function was never planned for either. Even today, officers must process case evidence wherever space is available, including records areas and report writing stations. Our juvenile holding room has been repurposed to serve as our armory, which is used to store our weapons and ammunition. This space has also had to double as a storage area for our first aid and defensive tactic training aids.

048This now requires us to place any juveniles taken into custody for criminal or noncriminal situations into our public lobby and had to be supervised face to face instead of being in a place in an area that was dedicated to accommodate that function. Additionally, since the last time I delivered this presentation, several serious developments have occurred. These include the discovery of asbestous and lead b lead based paint throughout approximately 1,300 square feet of the basement. Four formal complaints have been filed with the public employees occupational safe and health regarding workplace environmental conditions. A workman's compensation claim has been filed directly related to the work environment in that basement. These are not hypothetical concerns. These are documented ongoing issues affecting the health and well-being of our personnel. These findings reinforce what has already been stated. Our current

049facility is not only outdated, it is unsafe, non-compliant, unprofessional, and unsustainable. So, let's literally answer the million-doll questions. Why does the police department need a new facility? The answer is because we are operating out of a basement, an environment that where there's documented mold, reoccurring water intrusion, and overall evidence-based substandard working conditions that presented credible risk to the health and safety of our officers and prevents operational and organizational efficiency. Why does the police department need more space? Because as I've out as I have outlined this evening, we do not have adequate lockers, office space, interview rooms, training areas, storage space, meeting rooms, or a properly designed evidence function. Personnel are not working in an appropriate or efficient or professional conditions. They are simply working wherever space can be found. Of the approximate 4,000 square feet

050of our current police headquarters footprint, roughly 2,000 square feet, literally half is usable space for day-to-day police operations. That figure alone demonstrates the severity of the space constraints that we are operating under. Even with the proposed footprint of the new facility, there is no excessive expansion, minimal to no internal or external storage, and no surplus space for future growth. Only what is minimally required to function safely, professionally, and in compliance with applicable standards. So, for the purposes of clarity, what I've shared with you this evening, this information, these facts are not based on wants. They are solely based on our current needs. It does not even provide for future needs. There is no wish list here. One does not exist. What does exist is the current plan that only provides for what we need, the

051bare minimum. Ladies and gentlemen, my fellow taxpayers, I could continue, but I submit to you that the conclusion is crystal clear. The construction of a building is not matter is not a matter of preference but a matter of necessity. The current facility is not conducive to operational needs, efficiency, regulatory compliance or most importantly the long-term health and safety of our officers and and employees. To underscore this building is unsafe, non-compliant and unsustainable. The issue has been deferred for far too long. and I respectfully ask you, the residents of Bel and mayor and council for your support in the construction of this new facility. Again, on behalf of the men and women of the Bel Police Department, I thank all of you for your time and consideration. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Chief. >>

052Thank you, >> Chief. All right. First, I'm going to open up any questions from council members. Does anyone member of council have any questions for any of our presenters? Do >> uh first it was it was discussion about the uh Tom did an excellent job and I appreciate it. One of the questions that came up was you talked about the bonding being 14250 and earlier you talked about uh our capital reserve of about 4.25 million. >> Yes. For our calculation purposes, if we completed building right now, it would be the 10 million net of the 4.2. Is that right? >> Well, that would be your decision whether or not you wanted to commit the full amount, but yes, you could do that. >> And then I'm not sure exactly how long the construction takes, but

053if we continue to fund the reserve, it would be more than the 4.25 in say three years when this is complete. I can tell you that if we could replicate 2025 budget 2026, we could put another $2 million toward that amount. If you play it out, you could probably within 10 years through the capital improvement fund liquidate the obligation. >> And that's I think that's important for everybody to understand that that's a possibility. >> Mr. Mayor, I don't want to occupy all the time, but can I ask a question to the architect? Yes, please. >> Just uh one of the questions that came up in my discussion with there were quite a few residents and friends that reached out and we spoke a lot over the last few days in addition to prior to that.

054One of the questions that sticks with me is there's discussion there's no question that the and the chief did a great presentation. There's no question the police need a new building. They don't need a building the size of the what it is. They need a building the size of what you designed. If the question that I heard from a number of people is if you took the uh police station just built that and said, you know, don't put a second floor on it. Could you tell me the incremental costs between just building the estimated cost, just building the first floor with the police station in it or just building that roof 12 feet higher and putting in four new walls and and some cubicles? >> Well, it's it's directly proportional to the area, right? So,

055the ground floor is 10,000 square feet. The upper floor is 6,000 square feet. If we were building just a police station, you have a little less because you don't have stairs and elevator, right? So, you'd be about 8,000 square feet. So, you know, if divide that by the total of 15. So, you're somewhere around 60 65% of the overall cost for just that, >> the first floor. And and you have to build a foundation no matter what. No matter what >> you're building one or you're building two floors, you're still building one foundation, >> right? >> Okay. So, you think it's about 65% >> for just the first and then 35 for the uh to the the incremental cost for the second floor? >> Yeah. Wouldn't that u potentially be much higher? I'm just thinking

056from the standpoint of walls walls compared to all the accessories that would be needed um in a police department, cells. I mean, there's certain uh I guess type of protocol that they would have to follow and build on the first floor that wouldn't be needed on the second floor. I don't know. >> I yes and no. I mean there is a tendency for police departments in public construction just like schools for some reason are crazy dollar per square foot amount. >> I can't tell you why that is. I think it just grew that way over the years. uh we don't do a lot of school work so I can't speak to that but I know that in the municipal world police departments have a slightly higher square foot dollars per square foot cost attributable to

057some of the requirements the detainer detainey prisoner areas are hardened they're not cheap they're concrete the concrete block cells are a unique item that are very expensive etc so yeah there are some unique items in a police department drive that cost up a bit, but it's not exponential compared to the burrow offices upstairs. Um, and and you know, if you were to isolate and only build the police department, then you know, it could even be slightly harder because then the all the roof, all the foundation is attributable to that one elevator, right? As to the shared cost of sticking offices in there as well, right? So, you know, 65 70 it's hard. I I haven't done the math on that, so I would think it's >> and I'm sorry to hit you with that, but

058it was a question that was asked and I I thought it was important to get it get it asked and followed up on. I think the comparison is, you know, it seems like a small incremental cost to put the second floor on and then you're putting you're housing all of the administrative needs, the meeting needs, the training needs all in one place instead of putting some people here for a meeting or going to the Curtis house for another meeting, which still is possible. >> And you still may need to use this room if there's some critical matter that everybody has to be in on, right? >> But normal operation is you're going to have 20 30 people for a council meeting or a planning board or zoning board or and all those meetings should be

059where the planner is, where the administrator is. >> Understand too though that's that's one half of the story, right? If you're curing the police department, you're not curing the burough offices that too are not compliant code and ADA, right? Still not an accessible building. It's still a sick building, right? And it still has fire sprinkler issues because it has a windowless in the public space. So you you know if you're going to look at that and say all right I'm going to spend 65 70% of our target right now on police you're going to spend more than the 30% fixing the rest of that building because you still have to have an elevator. You still have to make that building safe. >> What I guess the question would be could you rent other office space

060in in the this town another town or and I'm not saying that's reasonable. I'm saying it's what was asked. If you rented that space would that have to be compliant? If you rent office space from somewhere else in town, would that have to be ADA compliant? Otherwise, >> it's a public facility. >> You have to be ADA compliant. So, yes, it's very possible you can find an office space, but it has to either be at ground level where you can wheel in or have an elevator. So, I I've seen that done where the town will isolate building department or other offices out of necessity, but you still, you know, you will have to spend something on this building even if that's taken away too. >> Understood. >> Are you just a a couple hopefully quick

061ones? I'll make it quick. So So there was a couple comments I guess in the last uh council meeting that this was a $15 million building. U I I think one of the slides kind of pointed out this is we're looking at what a $10 million estimate is what we're saying $10 million estimate. Okay. >> Now the the current The critical thing I just want to confirm is that um because we we we don't have an a more specific number because we don't have a bond passed which allows us by law the ability to go out and get bids. Is that that correct? >> Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. >> Just stop. >> This is not a public portion yet. >> Let him finish his question. Yeah. >> So, so, so getting back to

062the question was in order to get a firm or or get quotes from builders or or whoever, we need to show the ability to actually pay for those. Is that what >> you go out to bid >> or no? >> Unless you have an appropriation, >> you can't go out to bin unless you have a certification of availability of funds. And that's why we wanted to get the bond ordinance in place so that we could go to bid and have a fixed number. If the number comes in close to our number and we can lock the contractor into that number to construct the building, then we'll know solidly where we're going and then we can begin to plan the best way to pay for it. Use the capital improvement fund, bond anticipation notes, convert to

063a 30-year bond, whatever would be in the most cost effective for the taxpayer. That's what our intent is. But to get to that number, we need to have this ordinance in place. And I can also say if you have an ordinance and you don't need to fund it, then you won't. If for some reason we the project does didn't go through, it doesn't mean the $15 million is there as play money. It's just not going to be utilized. >> Gotcha. Uh, another quick question. the ADA compliance. Would that be needed under a renovation or new or just in the new situation? >> It's needed now regardless. >> But I want I guess set another way. Does it change? >> No. No. But your answer's a little different, right? If you're you're addressing an existing configuration,

064the solution's maybe less efficient. >> How do you connect an elevator to that building? How do you get to both floors, you know, and still have a public entrance, right? Somebody would have to enter a new lobby to get into the new elevator to get both levels at a secure point levels. You're reconfiguring a lot of both floors in order to make that happen. So, it just snowballs. Got it. >> And just two more quick questions. What What about the barrier between the school and the police station? I because I noticed there's at least by the the the picture it it seems as if all the police cars have been aligned and the school's right there. What what's the plan for that? >> So, you know, on on my picture, you know, it's an artist

065rendition from that vantage point. I put up all the evergreens that Gary was planning. So, I'm not showing the landscaping so you can see the building rendering. >> But the idea and and to the chief's comments, the issue the state has is that prisoner comes out of the car right now and walking sightines of the school which is why this department no longer has the exemption garage. The other departments that still are living on the exemption is because they don't have proximity to the school in the current in the proposed configuration. is brought in in the car into the building is not let out of that car until interlocking garage door so that the door can't be open at the same time interior. So the prisoner is pulled out of the car inside the building

066never within line of sight of anybody. >> Thank you. >> Mayor, I got one followup question if I can for the chief. Chief, you raised a number of concerns. Uh based on those concerns being presented to the board here, I'm fearful of us losing our Chapter 58 immunity. Uh if we somehow renovate the building or if we build a new building, uh we still have to get you out of that building. Is there a place that the police can operate out of in the meantime? Because this is going to take a substantial construction time and final design time and bidding time. How do we keep you safe? men and women safe. >> That's a discussion that we're going to have collectively and there has at this infant stage uh pertaining to that. Um there's everything

067from trying to find somewhere else to go or trailers. I I don't really >> but we go down that road also additional cost that gets tacked on. >> We understand we have to keep you safe. >> Yeah, >> I would like to tack on to that if possible. The intent is throughout the duration of the construction, especially during that phase one when both buildings are standing, the intention is is that the municipal building will still function as it currently does. So the police will still minorly operate out of that building. There will be somebody present within that building. It's just the relocation of the staff >> if it's if it's health if it's healthy. >> Yes. >> Nothing further, Mr. Mayor. >> Anyone else have any other questions? >> Okay. Again, So, we'll open this

068up to the public now to ask questions. I see a hand already. Please state your name and address and come up to the microphone here on the right and ask your questions. Yes, speaking of the microphone so everybody can hear you. >> Hi, Bill Rucker 616 Rank and Road. Um, thank you for those presentations. Um, as many of you know, because you signed a petition back in January, um, petition was written to stop the bond ordinance that did not have to be presented because unless the bond ordinance was adopted, you did not have to do the presentation. You didn't have to present the uh, petition. Some of you I apparently didn't know that, but now you do. Um, since that time, I've met with Tom Nolan as CFO along with Mike Gianforte. And, um, Tom,

069thanks for adding a couple of those slides that we chatted about. It was very helpful. bond anticipation note concept. I don't know if you all understand that, but essentially it's a line of credit and then you draw down a line of credit when you're building something and at the end if you have the cash to pay it back, you don't have to do a long-term note, which is what that bond issue would be. You can pay it all off. What we also learned during that meeting was that the town has been very fiscally responsible in acrewing cash to pay for some of its cap capital projects. As I'm sure all of your streets look like mine, they have to be repaid. You can't project that. So you put money aside for capital additions and actually

070the capital capital addition of a town is a separate entity in of itself has its own financial statement and its own budget. The taxes that we pay are completely different budget. I've looked at both audits. All the money was there. We had we had a very good meeting and y'all and you all should know that. I've also met with Gary Olsson twice since that time. Mike was there for one of them. And you know I'm speaking for myself. There is no question those policemen need to have a safe and clean environment and they need to get out of that basement. I think trailers are the short-term solution. John Michelle, you know, you've done that before for them. You need to get those people out of there. I don't know who's in charge of the risk

071associated with the town, but if somebody gets sick and we get sued, the least of our problems is going to be get the trailer. It's going to be a lawsuit these people have on us. All that being said, I think what this petition and certainly my letter the other month or so ago was just to tap the brakes to give us more details like some of the questions you had. How much did cost for second floor or rental space? We don't have those answers. There there are a number of guests here or guest units or educated guests. We want we would like to know the answers and better idea of the options. So um the other thing that's changed since that meeting is the 460 signatures has grown to 600. Um, if you adopt this

072ordinance tonight, we're going to submit those submission. We're going to submit those that petition. It's likely the forces go to random referendum. 600 people that sign this. If this referendum gets shot down, you got to start over again. And that's just not in the best interest of anybody. And you got to get police out. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, sir. Yes. >> I'm trying to be polite. >> Uh George Tibo 636 Susan Lane. Uh first I start off with a question. I sent uh a letter to the co-star last week. I sent the same letter to the town council. Did you get it? I sent it to the website within with an Adobe attachment. >> I read it on Coast. >> You read in a Okay. Well, I sent basically it's the same

073letter except the last sentence saying come on out and come to the meeting. Uh to to directly to the council on the website. So you I'd ask you to double check that. Okay. Because I didn't hear it back, you know. no type of thing. >> I I can resend it, but you got the co starts. It's it's the same thing. >> Um I want to echo just a couple things Billy said. First off, I did meet with Tom Nolan after the January 28th meeting. Tom, thank you very much for your time. It was very informative because I had a lot of questions about the the dollars and cents and you you cleared that up. Um I also came away from the January 28th meeting. We have to do something for the police. There's no doubt

074about it. Now whether that's you fill in the basement of the existing building with cement somehow getting rid of that make it one level out of port I don't know if that would work but if you have to build a new building uh for the police that that needs to be done one way shape or form my objection is the second floor I would venture it would cost more than a third of of that total dollar figure you do not need an auditorium for meetings. What are we doing here? This this uh building was renovated as a school to increase its use as a community center. I would urge that any public meeting, whether it's five people or 50 people or 500 people, be held at the school. A new auditorium or meeting room on

075the second floor of a brand new building for the police to me is a waste of taxpayers money. The other part admin services I think it was mentioned as about what 6,000 square feet on the top. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Something like that. So if you take away the auditorium and the meeting rooms and whatnot, you're left with about three because it's about 45 50% of the top floor and it and you don't need the elevators, you don't need the stairway if you don't have a second floor. Okay. There's a building right next to the town hall that's advertising 3,000 square feet of office space available. That should be those things options should be checked out. What about the Curtis House? That's got to be already ADA compliant. Am I right? How how

076do you vote there then? >> Okay. So, you had that has to be so that has to going to have to come out of the capital budget one way or another. So, why spend double money for it? is is my point. You've got admin services offices of for six or seven people when technology is making some of those functions become obsolete. And if you only need half of that top space, 3,000 square feet of lease space would be more than accommodating. >> Well, I'm talking about not building a new building. the second floor of a new building wouldn't have mold. No. So, okay, that no that's what I'm talking I'm talking I'm not talking about uh the the existing building. So to in my mind the public meeting spaces and the admin services can be

077dealt with with the current assets that the town has whether that's somehow with the Curtis House or leased like Seagurt did for the admin services and there's absolutely no need for public meeting spaces. You got a room like this. You got the library in the school where the where the board of ed meets. There's there's plenty of options to address those needs. The one thing that we do have to do is we have to do something for the police. And whether that's $5 million or $7 million, something has to be done. But the the rest of it, I think, is is a waste of of money. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Please. >> I'll get to it. Thanks. >> I know. It's okay. I'll get there. I appreciate it. >> My name is Jonah Tully.

078I lived at uh Two Crescent Drive. Uh I should mention uh because of the comments I'm going to make that I am a retired building contractor. I spent 50 years uh in public and other type construction, including police stations and municipal buildings. Um, let me say this right off the bat. I'm not I'm I'm not here to criticize the presentations made tonight. I think the architect engineer did a nice job. You can build the building. Uh, it's just fine as far as my perspective is concerned. However, uh, I noticed that it was $10 million um, the budget for the construction of the building. Uh I did a budget estimate of my own and came up with 11 million. Uh that's not a big big difference. Not unusual for uh a 10% difference in budget estimates.

079However, uh the concern that I do have is that by the time this job gets out the bid, which you have to go through approval, the design process, the approval process, and uh especially approval sometimes can really cause take a lot of time. And uh I think there's a real risk that when the job ultimately comes out to bid, it's going to be a lot more than what your budget. Uh so I don't know uh if you're prepared to deal with that or how you would deal deal with that, but uh certainly that's something that you should consider, especially uh the way the market is right now. Uh if all of the uh foreign investments in the trillions in new construction come into the country together with a bustling economy, you can rest assured that

080that $10 million is not going to be off by hundreds of thousands. It's going to be off by millions. My other concern is that if you're not able to go ahead with the project as designed by virtue of the uh uh I guess there's a uh what am I thinking? I'm having a senior moment. >> The petition and you'd have to go out for referendum. uh and you're not able to build a building. My understanding that is that the other consideration was to uh put an addition on the existing building to accommodate the police department. Obviously, everybody agrees that the you have to build the police department in one way or another. And by the way, I think the uh the estimate mentioned might be a little low to begin with. I mean, right now,

081it's my opinion that to build a police department, you're talking around $1,000 a square foot and I think you got 8,000 square feet if I'm not mistaken. So, that's something you might want to consider. However, uh as far as a plan B is concerned, I don't think it's viable to put an addition on the existing building. First of all, the existing building, I don't think it has to be torn down, especially if you're not going to have, you know, you're not going to have the police department in the basement. And the amount of repair work that would be required for mold remediation, uh the asbestous, new roof, it's nowhere near what you would uh justify tearing the building down. So, if you're not going to have the police station in there, I don't believe you

082need to tear the the uh the building down. However, if you put an addition on it as opposed to a separate building, when it goes in for approvals, the existing building becomes subject to a lot of the new u code requirements that may it might not otherwise uh even be scrutinized for if it's a separate building. So if it's a two if it's a separate project and you deal with the existing building as a separate project and you could deal with it you want want to do repairs you'd be on a timeline that's very flexible uh and if it's tied into putting the addition on you have no no room to do anything. You got to you know you're going to have you're going to be subject to a lot of more regulations that otherwise

083you wouldn't be. So, uh, if you're not going to be able to build a building, I would highly recommend you keep the you don't put you don't put the, uh, the police department as an addition. You keep it as a separate building. Uh, that's all I have to comment. >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir. In the back. George Murvine, 825 Club Road. And thank you very much again. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, I think the safest place for a police officer should be their headquarters. And I really truly do believe that these gentlemen and these the ladies and gentlemen of the police department deserve a safe work environment. So, I'm I'm in favor of uh having a new police headquarters here in Burell. Um but I have some questions and I'd like to see if I

084can ask the architect about it. Let me get my glasses out. I notice in the drawing we have um certain number of offices. We have six offices. Uh and we also have two large meeting rooms and so forth like that. Um we have two large locker rooms. The scale of this can it can we talk about maybe scaling this back some? I mean, the current size is 4,000 square feet, I believe, and this is going to be close to 9,000 square feet. Um, I work in healthcare. The nurse that works 7 to three, the charge nurse that works 7 to three shares the same office with the nurse who works 3 to 11 and the same nurse that works 11 to 7. Why don't we have shared office space here for the the captain and

085the lieutenant chief? I think you deserve an office, so I'm not going to challenge that office. But um but can we can we talk about maybe sharing some of these service uh these these offices? We have two large uh rooms. We have a meeting room and we have a conference room. I don't I can't envision how often those two rooms are going to be used every single day by all 19 officers. I believe uh chief you said that last time you had like 19 officers. So I think that there is some opportunity here to take a look at this plan. And I think you did a great job with the plan, by the way. I really do. Um, but I think that we can take a look at it and see is is there a

086possibility that we can whittle this down some? Maybe instead of having 9,000 fa square feet, maybe we go 7,000 square feet or something like that. Um, and my cost, I know the gentleman here said $1,000. Just to let you know, um, former accountant, I worked on some house uh, some healthcare projects, building projects. My cost came up to 938. All right, maybe just off a little bit, but $1,000 of dirt, you know, 938,000 pretty close. So, I think for every maybe thousand square feet that we can save, that's going to be a significant savings. Okay. Um, if I can suggest to the council, I think this is a great first attempt and I think that having 600 people signing a a petition to move this project or talked about this project is a great idea.

087Should we maybe have an ad hoc committee of some professional people in town that can assist the council in working with the council and with the the police department to come up with a plan that we could present to to to everybody so we don't have to go to the referendum and and then possibly um get voted down. These officers need a new place. All right. Um, people are concerned about the cost and I truly do believe that there is some savings here based upon this. I think it's a great start and I would advocate that we take a look at this and see what we can do to to come up some ways to save some money on this. All right. Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. James Bond 10009

088Riverview. Um, I agree with many of the comments that have been made so far, so I'll try not to be repetitive. Um, it's an absolute travesty that the police have been working as they have all this time. And a part of that is, you know, at least my own case, I was never forced to go into the police facilities here. So, for those who have been in there, you've probably been aware of this situation for some time. I have, and I venture to guess that a number of other people in town are also unaware of those conditions. You see the pictures, you hear the description, you understand the process. Uh when this petition was being circulated, there were two primary reasons that people wanted to sign. One was cost, questions about the cost. Another was

089people didn't want to see that old building destroyed. You know, they have an emotional attachment to it. People who've lived here their whole lives. So, um, I still have questions, uh, as do some others about what the final cost will be. Um, you know, I think I mentioned at the last meeting that, uh, when Highlands built a facility of exactly the same size that we're proposing here, uh, their cost was 775 and that was a few years ago per square foot. So, we're likely to be beyond that cost. That's not to say it's not manageable. You know, apparently Mr. Nolan has his finger on the pulse of how to take care of that. But there's another thing to consider perhaps for those people who have an attachment to the old building. Um, if you've ever

090been to the old high school in Neptune, you see how they use that facility there. Uh, it's kind of a cultural center, an arts kind of thing, that sort of thing. Our building could be the same. Something to consider. Um, and I think that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yes. Yes, you do. And you have to state your name and address. >> Sorry, can't make exceptions. seated. >> I'm Liz Wall. I live on 640 Susan Lane. Um, I think part of the concern I came here honestly because I wanted to voice my opinion about the old building. We have hardly any historical sites left in the building, you know, and it's old and everybody wants it to stay. We can't build a building and keep that one

091because then where would we park? You know, that's that's a problem. So, if we're going to build another building, even if it's just for the police, we have to get rid of that building because we need parking. There's enough there's trouble with the school parking, the drop off. I mean, for a time, they were parking in the police station parking lot, parents, because the parking is so bad for the school. So, that would be a problem. I agree with we need a new place for the police. We need a new place for the burrow because we can't have both. But, I do think the size is excessive. Um, Chief Olsen mentioned that it's 4,000 square feet. They're only occupying 2,000 square feet right now. The other 2,000 square feet you said is unusable. So, technically,

092we're going four and a half times higher than that by going to 9,000 square feet. That seems a little excessive to me. I'm sure that that could be looked at again and possibly be cut. And I also think that the um burrow, I agree, that could be smaller. So maybe maybe if we just downscale a little bit, we can all come to an agreement. Take a look at that. >> No, you I'm sorry. No, >> I want you back there. >> So, just for clarification, um, with the math, so the footprint of the building is 4,000 ft. 4,000 square feet. When I say usable space, what I did was I subtract hallway space. I I can't put offices in the hallway, the lobby, the massive generator room that somebody decided to put inside the headquarters.

093bizarre. But anyway, when you start subtracting those spaces, we're left with actually the exact number was 235 square feet of usable space, the locker rooms, office space, the bathrooms, and in that I I want to make another comment about um classrooms and and the meeting room. So although that appears to be not necessary or I'll use the word excessive, it's great to have those spaces now because we don't have any areas to meet. We don't have any areas to train. And I can go down a rabbit hole to to even explain what that looks like. But it when you heard me give my statement before, the last renovation did not allow any future expansion. Zero. The day we moved in, remember I was there when we moved and I helped move in to the new

094facility. We were at capacity. Back then, I think we had 13 or I think we had 13 officers. 14 officers. We had 14 lockers there. you know, there was a there was a an office for the chief and the lieutenant and and that was it. The reason why, again, it looks excessive, but that extra space and certain we could certainly use it, that feeds into potential future expansion. Maybe down years down the road, we could take that space and make it more offices or something else. because back 35 36 years ago as a new patrolman I never thought that the additions with the attorney generals and department of justice and all these mandates and regulations that they would look like it does today. So I hope that answers your question about even with the the

095the space. I'm telling you that that is the bare minimum and that's even and if you look at that there's no storage in the new in the new headquarters zero >> chief it's also important and I appreciate you taking me and Billy for the tour when we were there I had been in your lobby before we met a number of times but to get the full tour you see that it's an 8,000 foot operation in a 2,000 square foot You walk in, I don't know what it's called, but the office to the left there where people are working on their computers, one person has to step back for the other person to step forward to work on the computer. That >> Yeah. >> When you get to 8,000 square feet, I have a a firm

096feeling that that's going to be fully occupied on day one. >> Yeah. I mean, right now the one our records office is occupied by our school resource officer and our tech bureau. So, it's you're literally going in there and kind of doing the the side step just to I'm not exaggerating. So, um I again I hope that clears it up with the space and all that. It's like I said, it's literally the bare minimum and you know, just for us to operate safely, compliant, and uh quite frankly, professional. I think the architect did a pretty good job. So, thank you. >> You know, can can I just can I add something to this? uh because I I think this is a really um just emphasize this point. It keeps repeating in my my head that

097I'm not sure if we're all grasping, but if the bond passes and we are now uh sitting on this credit line of sorts, uh we're still going to then have to send this out for bids >> and the bids could come back much higher for the renovation, could be higher for the build, the new, could be higher for everything. I hearing from the people even up here today. Um, and I would tend to agree costs only go up, not down, right? So, you know, th this is one of those things that I think that at some point we may need to scale this plan down any um just because we may not have uh the funds to go forward with, you know, this. I I look at this plan as, you know, what we would

098aspire to uh to do, but it it can easily have to be scaled down because of the bond issue. And the other point I just wanted to might take away just from all the conversations and feel like hundreds and hundreds of conversations about this is is because of the affordable housing because of the the the influx of units into our town and I'm sure people are going to bring that up but I'm bringing it up for a point. It's going to cause growth in the town which means we're going to have to have more admin personnel probably. We're probably going to have to have more support people like probably going to have more police officers perhaps, but we're going to have to have more people to support this bigger town. And and I I think

099we're one concern I had was, you know, we'll spend $10 million and because we knocked this down from 15 million to 10 million and now we're all celebrating and high-fiving, but now what's going to happen when we have to hire that extra three or four people because we've added 1500 residents into town? you know, we we it's we got to have some kind of longer term planning and I think at least what we've put in place addresses a plan for future and if we have to scale that back because the fiscally we can't do it then we got to do that but I but I think right now this puts us at the table to be able to look at this in an intelligent way. That's all I'm take. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Mary

100Burke, Cedar Lane. Um, I also agree we need need to do something for the police department. Um, but I'd like to address my question to um, Chief Olsson. I know you're the emergency management coordinator for the town and as such you're aware of what's going on our surrounding communities with f first aid companies going to the county. Um I've heard and just going to ask this bright red did you have mentioned had you mentioned that our first aid at some point would be also heading towards the county and if such such would that be available space for you for your um the police department? I'm going to defer that question to Councilman Shock, but I believe that the first aid squad is its own entity. It's an incorporate. It's a corporation. So that's their property,

101their building. >> I I agree. But if they go to the county, then we have an empty building there. >> Yep. Councilman Shock. >> Well, right now Bri is a active viable organization. We're answering our calls and we don't foresee that ending anytime soon. >> Well, I see. >> You know, maybe, you know, 5, 10, 15 years down the road, that's a possibility, but today we're a viable organization. >> All right. >> So, we're not going to shut down today >> because of a what if. >> I thought I had heard um the chief had mentioned that at some point we'll be joining the county. Well, right now, Mom County, right now, Moms County EMS, >> the sheriff's department EMS is our primary backup, >> right? >> And they're answering about 10% of our calls,

102>> right? But I mean, permanently. >> Yeah. At some point, that's probably what will happen. >> But again, that's I don't see that. >> You don't foresee that within the next five years or so. So I don't >> I just thought I'd question it because as I said it's something that I thought somebody said they had a conversation and that was >> translated. Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Yes ma'am. Gail Harren, Morgan Park. Um, I have a question, not really related, but with the uh first aid building. I remember before Sandy, there was money spent, town money spent to put equipment into the first aid building. So why is it that we as a town put money into a private building? Real EMS headquarters has been designated, I would say probably 20 years ago

103as the burrow emergency evacuation shelter. >> And at that time I questioned why the school couldn't be used as an evacuation shelter. And at that time I was told that it couldn't be because the children would be here and it would be a risk. My opinion was if it's an emergency, the children are not in school. >> That's partially true. The rest of the story is school does not have a backup generator during Sandy and there was a lot of flack and there's a lot of concern in this town about that addition that was built at Realel EMS headquarters. pre- Sandy during in the immediate aftermath of Sandy, over 10,000 residents utilized that building. >> Oh, yes. I was one of those people. >> I was not made to feel welcome at all. I went

104into the kitchen actually to get some food that had been brought in by uh Joe uh what's Joe's last name? >> Leon, >> not Joel. Yeah, that's not his Introna. Um and um yeah, I was told that this is the first aid that we couldn't we couldn't go in there. >> Well, I don't >> Okay, I'm tell I'm telling you my experience. >> I can tell you 999 other people were made feel very welcome there and they were taking showers. They were charging their cell phones. We actually had internet service. People were working remotely on their on their laptop. >> Yeah. No, I mean it was a true resource for the town and it was turned out to be money very well spent. uh and that proved the point. And since then we have uh

105the shower facilities in there where even our DPW workers have had to go in and decontaminate themselves after being exposed to raw sewage and other uh contaminants and they've used that so facilities. >> So I I don't understand why that building I mean when you say it's it's a private building that we have we have put a lot of money into that building. It's a private It's a private building just the way as Briel Firehouse is a private building. Bel Fire Company Incorporated owns the firehouse and Belle EMS Incorporated owns the first aid building. >> Oh, I Yeah, I get it. I just I don't understand why as a burrow we invested money into that building. That's >> Well, it's for the benefit of the entire burrow. It It benefits the all residents of the

106burrow. >> Okay. Another thing, now I'm just being a brat. >> Okay. um when the uh architect was explaining the plan um which was not really clear until uh somebody turned out the light so we could actually see it. Um but there was a a building that an area in the second floor that had movable chairs in it so that that could be used for senior activities. Does that mean that we're actually going to get a senior program in town? We have no senior activities in town. Totally unrelated to this issue. I understand. >> But I'm being and I know I'm being a brat. >> You know, we can answer them at another time, but I'd like to stay gerain to this issue that we're talking about. >> That's I I did say I was

107being a brat and I understand. But >> it irks me. So, I appreciate it. Thank you very much. >> Yes, I saw a hand down here. >> No, that's okay. Mr. Bond, you're you're halfway there. Mr. Degr, Dr. Degr, I'll get you next. Sorry. I was trying to get to you, but >> James Bond with 100009 Riverview. Um, one point, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention it earlier. Uh, given that uh the petition exists and is likely to be submitted, this resolution passes tonight. That means that any activity is delayed another year. So because the the urgency of a police work environment that's safe and healthy is in fact urgent, uh we should find a way to make that happen rather than wait another year to do it. >> Thank you. I agree. Uh, hello.

108I'm Richard Degroup, 915 Riverview Drive. Uh, thank you, Chief Olsen. I've worked with your predecessor and in all likelihood some of your colleagues uh when you were younger. Uh, and the slides you showed truly were an abomination. Um, I have a question, uh, a couple of questions. When, if and when construction occurs there. Someone mentioned that the parking on the other side of the fence could be used for, I guess, police cars. The fence between the school and Am I correct? >> No. I think when when they described it the fencing there's a fence between the school and the police >> on the other side of the building is the police parking on the back of the building and then the front of the building is administrative. >> My my understanding was that during the

109construction of the building a lot of that parking was going to be eliminated. or am I incorrect? >> We can we can pull the the site plan >> the parking the current parking lot for the Nashville building. >> Yes. >> Um since a larger footprints going in on the south side >> I thought that someone said on the other side of that fence is where people are going to park for the municipal construction. >> No. So the the police will only be parking in the limits of what is the proposed municipal lot. I think the other side of the fence would be on the school property and that's not the intent. >> Okay. Because I thought the lot is going to be occupied by construction. >> So it's the new lot that we're introducing. We'll

110be constructing a portion of the overall new parking lot and that section is where the new parking will be. It's part of essentially where the police park currently. If you've ever seen the police ambulance at the current municipal building site, it's approximately the location of where that is. >> Okay. So, the school site is not going to be affected by this whatsoever. >> No, sir. >> Because I heard someone mention there would be trees planted there. >> There will be trees. >> And trees are trees are not a deterrent to a child. Matter of fact, they're an invitation. >> Um second thing, um when you ask for whatever bid is going to be. Are you going to ask for a hard bid? Because I think many people in this room who've done construction, all of

111a sudden there's a cost overrun and whatever um money is allotted should be hard and fast and not subject cost overruns. And I think it's the council's job to go ahead and search that out. Um the other the last thing is the um reserve reserve funds. Um reserve funds are sort of funny money. It's like having your money in the stock market. Uh what it was this morning wasn't this afternoon. And uh with what Councilman Cologne mentioned about hiring new policemen, uh we're going to be hiring more teachers. Uh that's a given uh with all the units coming into town. And the other thing is that the BEA, the policeman's are going to be asking for raises. Why? Because inflation, as we know, is not what is published. Inflation is not 3%, 2.7%. You can't

112live on that. And yet you're asking people who work hard to accept something less. Uh and I think that before you propose to say this is what we are going to use as a reserve, you should be talking to the police and the BEA about what what raises they expect in the future. Uh I'm not sure when their contracts come up, but it is something to consider over and above the fact that we will need more policemen and need more teachers. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Hi, uh, Jay Lorenzo, Woodview Road. I just want to ask Tim, uh, about the first aid one more time. Uh, MedStar, have we spoke to MedStar in regard to service for town for our first aid? >> Yes, they are our primary backup. I have a very good working

113relationship with MedStar. So the the local towns that are doing MedStar that don't have their own first aid are Ocean Township, Tint Falls, Neptune City, Seagurt, Manage, and Homedale. Have we thought of doing that to free up the police station for for the chief over here? >> No. >> Why? The towns you mentioned, the reason they don't have their own squads is because they were serviced by volunteer squads and they no longer had volunteers coming out and answering calls and those squads folded, ceased to exist. Well, MedStar was created to fill the void of the towns that didn't have EMS service. They started in Ocean Township. They moved to Manisquan Seagar. They've moved to Titan Falls. Those are all towns that the volunteers cease to exist. So right now, what we're using them as is

114a backup as our primary mutual aid. >> Yeah. But if if other towns don't The question isn't we have enough or not. We need buildings in town. I spoke to the chief after January 28th uh meeting. I thought he did an excellent job just like you did tonight. We need buildings. That would be a perfect site according to the to the chief. >> So you want to put So you want to put the volunteer first state squad out of business. That's just so we're on the same >> No, I I want to replace it. You said you want to put it out of business. I didn't say that. >> No, that's what you were just saying. >> No, I didn't say that. Misquan didn't put theirs out of business. They replaced it. >> No, they

115put them >> They replaced it. It's not out of business. Out of business means they don't have one. Tim, >> I know exactly what happened to them. They cease to exist. >> They the volunteer. If somebody calls 911 in Manispan, they're not going to get a first aid to go to their house. >> Yeah, they will. They have MedStar to fill the void. >> Just answer my question. >> They filled the void. There's no void to be filled here. >> Thank you. That's the answer. And I I know it's not mention it hasn't been mentioned this discussion, but some night we'll have a discussion about the benefits of Tim and his wife and the other uh 12 people who respond at day and night to your house at no cost compared to the hundreds of

116thousands of dollars that would if we had to switch to paid services. you're approaching the value or a large portion of the debt service to buy the new town hall. So, if instead of buying the new town hall, we want to pay people to do what Tim and his wife and the other people in town volunteer for, that's another option. But some night, we ought to talk about how incredible Tim and the rest of the first aid squad are for the town. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. The gentleman in the back. Can you put the project cost screen back up? >> You know how to work that that does anybody else have a comment? >> Yes, Mrs. Barker, please. the cost uh the question I have is the cost just for brick and mortar or

117what is the soft cost? Tom, that cost is just for the building, correct? Brick and mortar. >> Question is, >> is that just for brick and mortar, the soft cost, the 10 million? >> Great. But what about the soft cost? Furniture, all that other kind of stuff. Do you have a number of what that is? Is that separate or is that brick and mortar? Is there a cost? There's going to be additional cost for what's going to go in the building. Correct. >> 1.5 million. >> That that's is the brick and mortar. Is the building just brick and mortar? >> They are. Okay. >> Okay. No, I just want to know if it was included. I need the breakdown. I have also um on the site plan original site plan um the way we I

118looked at it I wasn't quite sure if a portion of the building is on school property. Is that correct or is it just the way it looks that's on school property? >> It's a little Yeah, >> it's on school property. >> It's not on school property. >> It looks very close like >> Yeah, it's close. It's close. >> It's not on school property. >> Yeah. >> None of it's on school property. Okay. So none of it's school property. Thank you. >> Okay. I didn't see any other hands. >> I I have a motion. >> Wait, one more. One more. >> Oh my goodness. All right. This gentleman's already been there. Let's Let's kind of summarize your >> Do I understand right that the $10 million includes the furniture, the design fees, and everything other than

119>> Yes. >> than than the bid. Well, in my humble opinion, you don't have enough money. >> Okay. >> Yes, Mr. Graham. Our last question. >> Oh, I can't see. Hello. Um, I'm Richard Graham. I'm an architect town and I live at 805 Riverview Drive. I have to be careful what I say because I live right next door to the mayor. >> I'll help you with >> u I want to thank the mayor and council for their work on the proposed project and and the architect as well. Um I my office is right next door to the real post office and uh quite frequently I've the occasions come about where people stop into my office and talk about the uh municipal building. Um, I design I designed the renovation of of the building in 1990

120and um, I agree with all the concerns and issues that everyone's uh, voiced. Uh, Chief Olsen in particular. Um, uh, Chief, please understand or try and remember when we delivered the building back in 1990, it didn't look like your your slides. I >> agree. >> So, uh, various issues, maintenance, whatever. How that how that arrived at that point, I I don't know. Um what uh people have asked me and commented on is that they're open-minded to the uh new building, new facility, but they're also kind of torn about losing the existing building. And I have they ask me if any preliminary designs for additions or renovations or corrective uh concepts have been put put forth. And my answer is that no. I'm not aware of any. So uh if if it possibly could be looked

121in further, we're going to I'm gonna have he's going to answer that question for you. We did kind of look into that. Uh good evening everyone. My name is uh Joseph Ciserano. I'm an architect with H2M Architects and Engineers. Um >> uh going back into the uh latter parts of 2022 and 2023, uh we were retained by the burrow and put some design efforts to address several of the current deficiencies or um issues that are going on with the building. to list them briefly as the chief and everyone else has already outlined. Um the uh uh the violations that the police department is currently in without having a sally port uh without having accessible route for detainees. Uh we were looking at roof replacement. We were looking at mechanical system upgrades for the police department.

122We were looking at a new backup generator, a new boiler amongst other infrastructures. the scope creep or the amount of items that kept snowballing as we were investigating how to design or accommodate or uh the um or I I'll say eliminate the violations really started to ramp up the cost and at that time when we had put a design in place for an addition for a sallyport an elevator and renovations in the building we got third party cost estimates from a cost estimator and and just the hard costs at that time were coming in I think 3.15 to 3.2 million. So figuring soft costs and potential cost overruns for renovating an existing building, you could have been you know pushing uh 4 million or higher. So those considerations were uh vetted and designed at that

123point in time. The reality was even if we had done the the addition, the renovations, the the roofing, the mechanical systems, you still would have had a 100 plus year old building. you still would have had the same spatial constraints that the police department has. You still would have had um potentially future water intrusion issues through the foundation because again it's a 100 plus year old foundation that is made of porest materials. So I think that that cost and that exercise at that time is one of the genesis of what prompted the burrow to look into building a new facility because of the exorbitant cost that would take just to renovate the existing structure. And at the end of that exercise, you'd still have a a uh substandard facility. >> I Okay, I I understand

124what you're saying. Um was there ever an investigation of where the water table is? >> Uh at the time, we did perform a couple of test borings. Uh I believe the water table was found to be uh if I'm going off memory, I think it was greater than 12 feet uh below adjacent grade to the building. So the water table uh hadn't presented itself as an issue. Uh poor percolation in the existing soils, the poorest foundations uh amongst other uh concerns is what um drew the prelim the majority of the moisture intrusion issues in the lower level. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um, other concerns that have been uh voiced to me, and some of these I have concerns myself, is that the the building has a certain historic character that everyone's grown accustomed to,

125and Bel has very few uh significant building landmarks. They're often very vital to a community uh to, you know, for their history, for their identity. Uh, is there has there been any study to to try and find a way to keep the existing building even if it were not occupied immediately and have the new facility uh find a adequate or desirable position amongst the existing building. You know, in the future there might be a need for more space and perhaps that building could could satisfy that. There certainly was consideration about constructing next to the existing facility and trying to leave it in place. Uh the reality is once you do that um and that was before the affordable housing component came into place. So once you start to occupy additional spaces on that property, you

126run out of land uh relatively quickly. So even things like parking uh vehicular circulation become a real challenge with trying to leave the existing facility in place. Um, and I too am sensitive, I think, as most people are in a community and, you know, being an architect myself, I'm sensitive to buildings that have a historic nature. Uh, I think the reality is the the burrow finds itself in a in a in a true challenge of what to do with that facility and continuing to invest money in, you know, something that could continue to be a money pit moving forward even with renovations is a is a strong concern and I think one of the major factors of why we are the current iteration of the plan. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mayor. I I know

127uh we're moving forward but we're losing the number of people here and I think it's important for everybody to hear the discussion. Uh I think at some point we ought to call the question. I mean the issue at hand is the petition as I hear it has asked us to delay the consideration of the bonds. The delay does not change the age of the building. It makes it exactly those number of days older. it doesn't change the cost or if it does change the cost as testified earlier it'll increase the cost by delaying it because you're getting into future time where things are more expensive. Uh I'd ask that the question of the audience is is there something that justifies other than information. I was the one that asked to move it to tonight from

128uh a consideration for vote the last time because I thought people needed to be more informed. I think we've done a lot to inform people. So, I think there's still people asking questions and they're important, but is there any question out there that's unanswered that needs to get answered for us to outweigh the detriment of delaying things for the purpose of uh if if we're going to get rid of 108y old building, we're going to get rid of it whether it's today or next year that it don't won't change by delaying things and the costs will just go up. So, I I'd like to ask if there's somebody out there that wants to testify to the fact that what improves by delaying another month and forming a committee and doing whatever else there is, I'd

129ask that that question be considered. If not, I'd like to move to take a vote. >> Okay. We don't we we're not sure. He's he's his statement was that he has a a petition that he could put up a referendum that could delay this process to go to a vote that could take by the time you set up the referendum, by the time you set up the vote, you know, it'll take months to organize that type of thing that it could delay this project. But ultimately, the goal here of the council and us was to, you know, get you informed, give you, we've been working on this for quite a long time. We've postponed this. We can't come here, you know, answering, you know, all the questions. We brought all the professionals. Our information is

130here and, you know, now they'll make a decision based upon everything that they know. These people were elected to represent the people. They were using their best judgment for all the information that they have on what's best for this community. And they speak for the people of this town. And that's their goal. And they're they all live here. They all want to do what's right. They're all want to do what we think is in the best interest of everybody. And you know what? It's impossible to make everybody happy. There's no question. Yes, people love historical buildings. Some people don't look at it that way. You know, change is good. You know, we need to move up with the times. We need new technology. We definitely need to help the police. you know, we we can't

131sit here, you know, and and expose our employees to unsafe locations and PIOA problems and and ADA lawsuits and and any of that type of thing. And it's just been prolonged too long. We've tried to remediate many things, the mold. We've spent a lot of money on things that keep coming back and we keep finding more things. Now, we found things in the attic that are animals that have to be fats and all kinds of different things that keep coming up. and now, you know, a sprinkler system that may cost a half a million dollars. It's just it's almost it when the committee looked at it and started looking at the renovation costs and where we were going, it almost didn't make sense to put a band-aid on something that really needs to be re

132renewed. We need something new. So, we've heard the discussion. I'm going to close the hearing right now. I need a motion to close the hearing. >> So, move second. All in favor? >> I. >> All opposed. Hearing opposition. The hearing is closed. Resolution 26-66 for passage on final reading. >> So move. >> Second. >> Yes. Sean. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Resolution 26-67 authorize publication of passage and adoption in the co-star according to law. So move >> second council member. >> Yes. >> Thank you. I'm now going to go to committee reports and tonight I'll start with Councilwoman Ler. >> Thank you Mayor Christine Loer for administration and personnel. No formal report tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you councel be reported. Thank you, mayor. Uh before everybody leaves, if there if there remain cons concerns,

133there's nothing wrong with still asking questions. It'll help in this process. It's important to ask those questions. On the uh Mike JForte, chairman of public works, uh I wanted to let everybody know we've had some storm damage. The public works again did an excellent job to keep up with it, but it's important to know that there are people with broken branches and everything else. Uh, April 1st, we will be able to pick up both branches and leaves. They have to be in separate piles. And keep in mind, no grass clippings, no bamboo, uh, no hay bales, and no contractors are allowed to put their uh, twigs and branches out. And it's important to remember 4 foot length is the maximum and six inches diameter is the maximum in diameter. So again, great job by public

134works and hopefully you've hit your last snowstorm this year. >> Nothing further, Mr. Thank you, Councilman Michelle. John, chairman of the budget finance committee. No formal report this evening. >> Thank you, Councilman Shaw. >> Good evening. Tim Shaw, chairman of the public safety committee, and I have no formal report this evening. >> Thank you, Councilman Kal. >> Thank you, Mayor. Elliot Cologne is the chairman of the community development uh committee and I have no formal report today. >> Thank you very much. I'm now going to go to the public portion of the meeting that you can state anything you'd like to state the public portion of the meeting. Hold on one second. We're going to use the same procedure and we are going to go to the microphone. You're going to state your name and

135address and you can make your comment. Yes, you can. So you're telling me that none of the brush is going to be picked up >> April 1st. >> Okay. So then excuse me, but there is a pile on the corner of Ocean View and Riverview that is a huge pile. The branches are actually laying right almost on Riverview. And when you're going down Riverview, there's people and bicycles going around it. So right there is the safety hazard. It's right there on the corner. >> Absolutely. I'll have you guys look into it tomorrow. >> Thank you. Thank you. But again, April 1st for everybody else. >> Okay. So have I. >> Yes. Over here. There's a new person to talk. >> Say your name, address, please. >> John Deo, 613 Bore Avenue. Uh I'm just going

136to comment on what the woman just said before. I walked here tonight. There's five houses that you can barely see the house. there's so much brush in front of their house. April 1st is not going to work. Especially with the weather getting nicer and people going to go outside and start to pick up their things. April 1st is not going to be a good day. I I I think you have to really look at trying to do it a little bit sooner. >> Okay. >> Take a look at Thanks. >> Anyone else? Yes, Mr. Bond. James Bond 109 member view. You know, uh I think it was a January meeting, uh I mentioned when this petition was circulating that many people said they were afraid to sign it because of a fear of retribution. I

137saw some people on the council laugh that night, you know, not believing that that was the case. I don't know. But I do know that some of the same people on that list put some signs out this weekend, a couple days ago, for the purpose of announcing uh this meeting and trying to encourage attendance. Within a day, those signs were gone. Yet, that dog has been home for a week and there's still signs all over town. They're there. Uh I understand that permits required for signs in certain places. All I ask is uniform enforcement. >> Thank you. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Seeing no other hands, I need a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> All opposed. If you're in opposition, motion carries. Meeting is adjourned. We will have another

138meeting on March 11th, council chambers at 6 p.m.