001Hello. Good evening. We'd like to call this session back to order, please. This on. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Oh. Hello. Excuse me. We'd like to call this meeting to order. Thank you. It is 6:02 and we are calling this uh bringing this uh meeting back in order. Uh thank you and good evening and welcome to the April 9th meeting of the um Muna Beach Unified School District Board of Education board meeting. We have new technology. So, um, when you are standing at the podium, this microphone works the same way, right? Dez does at the podium. So, when you're when you're speaking, the green light should be on at the base and the red light should be on the microphone. Board members, the same is for you. When you're done speaking, please
002turn your mic off and then turn it back on. How many mics can be on at the same time? Dez, >> all >> mics can be on at the exact same time. Excellent. Okay. Okay. Okay. If we So, we if you're a student that would like to speak to an item on the agenda, please write student at the top of your card. We will have 20 minutes of non-aggenda items at the beginning of the meeting here next. And then we will move into our agenda and each of those items will have public comment opportunities and students will go first in each of those items. What's public? Sorry, I'm just getting some of this information now. Okay. Item five. Okay. Okay. >> Okay. Ivy, can you please lead us in the pledge of allegiance? I pledge
003allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic which stands one nation under God indivisibley and justice for all. >> Thank you. There is no report out of close session. >> Mrs. Morgan, can you read the report from the uh March 26th? So there's no report out of close session from this evening. On March 26, the board took action to approve insurance claim number 669071. Is that all you needed? Okay, thank you. Sorry about that. Okay, we're going to move on to number um to item five. Uh this is a 20 minute section. This is a 20 minute uh public comment on non-aggenda items. Anybody that wish to wishes to speak on items not on the agenda that is not in the first 20 minutes will be invited to come
004back up at the end of the meeting. Clerk Perry, are there any speaker cards for items not on the agenda? >> Yes. >> How many cards do we have? Three. Great. Thank you. Please continue. >> Okay. Grace Lee, would you like to come speak? Good evening. I have a 10th and seventh grader and we live in the district. Our children attended to for their elementary years. However, they have attended private schools for the last two and five years before school meetings became must-see TV. During the last two years, I observed a special nastiness on the Next Door app that started with attacks on the pool modernization and now is attacking other aspects of LBUSD. These attacks caused me to pay very close attention to the current school board. I have watched the last two years
005of open sessions of the schoolboard meetings and notice a train wreck in slow motion that rivals toxicity, bad behavior, messiness, and melodrama of reality staples like the real housewives and the secret lives of Mormon wives. Shall we call the last two seasons of LBUSD schoolboard meetings the real school board of Orange County or the secret lives of schoolboard wives? Because it sure felt like it. It's clear the board and its community supporters without school age children in the district are addicted to social media and its inherent drama. This addiction and activity on Next Door has spilled over into the real world and negatively impacted LBSD students, parents, school staff, and of course these schoolboard meetings. This addiction and ragebait narrative are documented on Next Door. According to Stanford psychiatrist Dr. Anna Lumpy and other researchers,
006social media has drugified our social connections. Humans by nature are driven by social connections. Apps like Next Door can cause the release of large amounts of dopamine into our brain reward pathways all at once. Just like heroin, methamphetamines, or alcohol, social media connects us by drugifying our social connections through outrage that amplifies dopamine release. And in my opinion, this coarsens our culture and we've and as we've seen in these schoolboard meetings, it sometimes doesn't really get anything done. It's quite clear the next door echo chamber and schoolboard majority do not listen to parents, LBSD students, and school staff voices. Instead, we see an addiction to personal attacks against school community members. The most gling attacks are against minor student schoolboard reps who are respectfully exercising their First Amendment rights. Instead of this toxicity, perhaps our
007frequent nextoor contributors and board members can put down their phones and keyboards and help seek large donor advancement type gifts for a new LBHS blackbox theater. Or our next door activists can seek funding and use their time to kickstart and support a first robotics program at Thirstston and LBHS. So our students do not have to travel to Kappell Valley High School for robotics. This would be better than the activism we see on Next Door. In closing, we as a community need to get back to keeping the students interests at the forefront so they can become productive future taxpayers to finance things like the police, roads, social security, Medicare, and Medicaid for current and near future retirees in our district. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'd like to revisit the March 26th meeting in which it
008was allowed that a rude and disrespectful community member would come in and call out the student board reps. So, Ivy, please relay my comments to Logan. This is on your behalf. Um, if the kids are texting their parents to let them know that the meetings are running long once again, that is perfectly fine. Um, it is not okay to come out and call student board reps um or students who are in the room whispering over their AP homework. There have been countless occasions where I have watched Howard on your phone scrolling, typing. Sherry, I've watched you write handwritten notes and pass to Howard and I've watched you two whisper while students, staff, and community members are speaking during the meeting. So I would like to see John Dab's comment from the last meeting to protect
009students and I'm going to raise him in addition to protecting students you take accountability for your actions during the meeting. Uh Mr. Pearl, you were not here at the maybe the March 12th meeting where I quoted CSBA verbiage, LBUSD board um verbiage as well as your auditory comments, sorry, your comments and your slide deck um when you were first here. And I I quoted everything and it was all about the demeanor of the board members and how they're supposed to behave and not speak negatively about students or staff or patrons and how they're they're like they they are supposed to be. And so if we're going to allow rude, disrespectful people to come in and call out students, we need to you need to be take accountability for your own actions because you are doing
010exactly what was um brought up here at the podium as well as an email and it's really beyond the pale. the hypocrisy is really beyond the pale. So again, please protect students and take accountability for your actions. You are the adults in the room. As I said at a previous meeting, you can't shame the shameless, but shame on the adults for not being accountable and taking responsibility for their actions. So I would just say to the students in the room, look around, look in your orbit on campus, look at the staff members who are um showing the uh leadership qualities and the professionalism that you are supposed that you should emulate um out in the world. So like WWGD, what would Glass do? What would Dr. Glass do? Or you are both in uh AP
011Euro, WWHD, what would Heather Hansen do? You have excellent positive role models all around you in these meetings and in the community. Look to them. Ignore the people that are unhappy and doing in their own misery. You guys know what you're doing. You are excellent. Protect the students. Take accountability for your actions. Thank you. Shaheen Sadal. Good evening. My name is Shaheen Shik Sudal um parent in the district. I just wanted to bring attention to a pattern that I feel like the public should be aware of and so hopefully those of you who are watching at home can also hear this. Um, this is now, I think, the third time employee dismissal has been placed in close session as a close session item. And each time there has not been a report out of any
012action taken. So, I just want to make sure the public is aware that under the Brown Act, it is not optional as to whether or not you get to report if any action is taken. It's it's actually against the law. It's against the Brown Act. It's against the law to not report out an action that has been taken. If If an action is taken in close session, it has to be publicly reported. They're supposed to come out and report on it. That's actually a basic requirement of transparency and accountability and public governance. So when there's repeated silence, particularly in the context that we are having right now, the public is left to wonder whether decisions are being made without proper disclosure or whether the law is simply not being followed. And so neither of these
013things are acceptable. While I agree that close session is meant to protect sensitive matters. So this is why we don't list employees names for example or student names. It is not meant to shield decision-making from the public view. I just also want to say at a time when member Perry, member Morgan, and member hills, as I understand it, are under scrutiny for Brown Act violations, it is especially important that we get this right and that there's transparency and accountability about what is happening in close session to the extent those actions are being taken. So to be clear, the community, we're paying attention. We are watching these patterns and we are expecting full compliance with both the letter and the spirit of the law. Thanks. Thank you. That's that's all. >> Thank Thank you. Um Mr.
014Pearl, is there anything that needs to be said about what is reported out of close session and what is not? >> I'm happy to address it generally. Um, under the Brown Act, the board has the right to speak about employee matters or matters that affect the status of an employee. They're allowed to speak to that in closed session under 54957, subdivision B1. And the speaker is partially correct that if um no action is if action is taken um that is reportable then it needs to be reported out. But if no action is taken by the board um then no report out is required. That allows the board to discuss um to speak in close session about personnel matters. Thank you. >> Can I also ask um Mr. Pearl about court matters and close session? >>
015Court matters. >> Well, there are um opportunities for the board to speak in close session about existing litigation or anticipated litigation or if the board wants to um initiate litigation. So, those are all protected and there are specific agenda requirements that have to be met as far as how you set forth the agenda description, but that's also an area that allows the board um to speak privately in close session. Again, as the public uh comment used, she used the words um you know, for for sensitive matters. Well, litigation is one of them. Personnel matters is another. Um, so >> negotiations as well. >> Um, yeah, I was under under the impression, and I'm looking into this on my own, but that under the ed code, if people are discussed in close session, >> I'm asking
016a question. If people are being discussed in close session, they should know that there's a discussion happening because I understand under the ed code, they have the option of moving that to open session if they want. So, I'm a little bit confused about how we distinguish between what is proper notice on a personnel issue, which motions are reported out. So, for example, you might have a motion about process but not about, you know, specific issues that you that that are um confidential. So, I it feels really murky to me and I feel like the ED code provides some clarity. So, I would really like I've asked for this a couple times, but I would like a lot more clarity. Um, and maybe you can talk about that now because I am looking into it on
017my own. >> Yeah, I think >> we also have a governance meeting on the 23rd that we can go further into this. We don't want to get too off topic. I don't want to go too much astray, but I think um Trusty Malchesky, I think what you're referring to is the 24-hour notice rule, which is actually in the Brown Act, and it provides that if there's actually going to be a complaint or hearing heard by the board, where it's actually a formal proceeding like that that requires the district to give 24 hours advanced notice to the employee. Then they have the right to either have that matter heard in close session or open session. But I'd be happy to to go into detail and to share advice with the board. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
018>> Can we move forward? Did you want to ask a very quick question because we're getting off topic. Go ahead. >> Um you know, Mr. board council. Um I think you know the term uh violate the Brown Act is thrown around quite a bit and um since there are people listening at home and since there's audience here um could you tell us what it is to violate the Brown Act and I particularly would focus on um that if there is a violation of the Brown Act, the remedies are to demand a cure. If you don't get a cure, you can go to the DA or you can go to court. And um the only provision of the Brown Act that I know of that's an actual violation and in fact a misdemeanor is under um
019what uh where you intentionally withhold information from the public that the public's supposed to get. Could you just summarize when people use the term what is a violation of the Brown Act? Could you just summarize that for us? >> No. >> Can we do this in in the governance meeting? >> I could do it in the governance meeting on the 23rd, >> but I think that's a hard one. It is broader than what you described. >> Um, but yeah, I could teach a whole class for >> Yeah, >> not that you want to hear about it for an hour, but it is difficult to summarize in a >> state can be oversimplified very easily as well. >> Yes, it can. >> Thank you for your question, Howard. Um, I will say that DWK has done
020excellent Brown Act training seminars. I've done two or three of them. Um, as well as with um, Atkinson and as well as one with CSBA and it was very effective training and I think it does shine quite a bit of light on what's allowed and what isn't. >> So, thank you for your time um, Mr. Pearl. Okay, moving on to item six, business services information and board discussion presentation by Tim um, McLaren True North and discussion of community bond survey results. Um, Manoj, can you please introduce Thank you. Good evening, board. I'll have them. They're waiting outside, so I'll just call them in. direction. Thanks for the notion board. Um I'm Dr. Tim McClney. I'm president of True North Research. We are a firm that for about 25 years has specialized in working with school
021districts and uh other types of public agencies around the state in using surveys to help them develop a statistically reliable understanding of the communities and the customers they serve. Um to date, uh my business partner and I uh have designed and conducted over 1500 research studies for public agencies. And probably twothirds of the work that we're doing right now is what we call revenue measure feasibility studies like we're going to be talking about here tonight where the goal is to understand if it's feasible to move forward with some type of revenue measure and if it is feasible to determine how might you go about structuring that measure in a way that it's consistent with the type of measure that your community is interested in supporting. Um happy to report that uh we've helped our clients
022have a lot of success over the years. um about 93% of the measures that based on our research we recommend go to ballot have been successful. Um we've helped to raise about 42 billion in voter approved measures around the state and our experience in Orange County is particularly deep. In fact, if you go back over the last I think it's like 12 or 14 years, there have been 21 education bonds passed in Orange County. We did the polling for 19 of those 21. Um I mention this mainly because as I go through tonight's presentation, um I may make some comments. uh or perhaps in response to questions from the board uh about kind of how the results we're seeing here in Laguna Beach compared to what we might typically see in other communities. I just
023wanted you to have a sense from the experience based on which I'd be speaking. Um and I also welcome questions from the board as I go or at the end whichever is your preference. >> Did you do our last bond? >> I did not. Um okay. So, uh before we get to the results, it's helpful to take a moment to review the purpose of the study. um as well as the methodology. And as a bond feasibility study, uh we're really trying to address the three bullets that you see here up on the slide. The first is to answer that basic question of is it feasible? And what I mean by that is if you as a board were to choose to place a measure on the ballot, does it have a reasonable chance of success?
024Answer to that question isn't always yes. Right? Sometimes we do this research, get the numbers back, and there's just no clear path to get you from where you are today to where you need to be to be viable on election day. And if that's the case, I'll be the first person to tell you, right? I think the last thing that the board would want, the administration wants, or the community wants is to invest in a process like this that you really don't have a reasonable shot at success with. Um, when we do see that there's a path or there's feasibility, that second bullet kicks in, which is understand how might you go about structuring a measure in a way that it's consistent with the type of measure that your community is interested in supporting. There's
025a lot of facets to a bond package, right? There's the the bond amount, that overall amount that you're going to be asking for. There's the underlying tax rate that supports that bond amount. There's the project list identifying the types of things that you would intend to spend the funds on should the measure pass. Uh there's also accountability provisions that are built in. So there's all these sort of important questions that you as a board would ultimately need to answer uh before you can place a measure on the ballot and the research can help guide that. And then finally, it's an opportunity for us to understand kind of the role that information plays in shaping voters's opinions about the proposal which in turn can shape communications. So in terms of the methodology we use, we use
026the same methodology here that we always use when we're looking at the feasibility of a bond measure. The first question we ask ourselves is what election is this measure being considered for? The reason for that is different elections have different turnouts and as you expand or you shrink turnout, you will tend to get a different profile to the group of voters that are going to be participating in that particular election. It's really important if you're going to have reliable research that you're sampling from that group of voters that would ultimately decide the fate of a measure. In this case, that those are voters that would be participating in this upcoming November election. So, what we did is we went through the voter file for your district. We identified every voter that is what we call
027a likely November voter. These are voters we expect to cast ballots this upcoming November based on when they registered to vote in the district, what elections they've participated in since that point, as well as some other demographics. We expect them to actually be casting ballots in November. There are uh 18,041 of those. By the way, uh in your district once we have identified these likely November voters, we use a process called stratified clustered random sampling. Get into the details of that if you like, but suffice to say, what that does is it ensures that at the end of this process, not just the sampling design, but also at the end of the process, we have a sample that matches the profile of that likely November universe on all the dimensions that we know drive how
028voters to uh behave on bond measures. So the balance in our sample by age, gender, partisansship, household party type, where they live within the district, that balance in our sample matches the balance in the universe of November voters. And that's really one of the keys to making sure the research is reliable. Uh once we pull a sample, we reached out using three different recruiting methods, email, text, and telephone. Folks had the opportunity to take it either online or by telephone, whichever was their preference. Uh we were in the field in early March. Uh we had actually contracted to do 400 completed interviews. We walked back in the door with 547. So we had a good response from the community. Um I always have to estimate what I think that response rate is going to be.
029I tend to error on the conservative side. And here uh we had a better than expected response rate. So with those additional interviews of 547 with a larger sample size, you wind up with a smaller margin of error due to sample. In this case, it's plus or minus 4.1% at the 95% confidence level. What that means is we can be 95% confident that the results I'll share with you tonight are within 4.1% of what we would have found had we spoken with every single one of your likely voters. Okay, so on to the results. Oh, before we get there, I mentioned that stratified and clustered random sampling and how it enables us to have a sample that matches the the likely November universe. I've got a table here that just shows in the middle column
030that is the distribution of likely November voters in in your community by age, partisanship, household party type, what household party type is, it's not just the partisansship of the person I'm talking with, it's the partisansship of the people that you live with. And so if you tend to share the party identification of the people you live with, to the extent that you talk politics, you tend to reinforce each other, right? You agree. So dual uh Democrats and dual Republican households tend to be the most partisan, right? Um when you lived in these mixed households, you tend to argue a little more about politics, right? That has the effect of moderating your behavior. It's the single best predictor of how people tend to vote on bond measures. And so you can see both for that one
031as well as home ownership how closely our sample matches the profile of that likely November. Okay, so on to the results. Uh we like to warm up or open up our bond feasibility studies with what we call the importance of issues question where for each of the issues you see there on the left side of the slide we just ask voters to tell us how important is this to is it extremely important very important somewhat important or not at all important um great warm-up question just kind of gets folks into the groove of taking the survey thinking about their community but it's also an opportunity for us to understand how education as a topic stacks up against some of these other issues that also compete for tax dollars and in particular how does the topic
032of maintaining the quality education. Local public schools stack up against the issue of preventing local tax increases. Rough rule of thumb, surprisingly predictive. The higher up in this list and the more importance that voters place on the topic of education relative to the issue of preventing local tax increases, the better positioned you are to move forward with some type of bond measure. Right? The the higher up that list that preventing local tax increases would rise. Um it suggests you've got a little more tension there and tends to mean you got a steeper hill to climb. What we found here in your community was the number one issue was in fact maintain the quality of education uh in local public schools at 92% identifying that as extremely very important involved by maintaining local streets and roads
033reducing track traffic congestion on down. You get towards the bottom there preventing local tax increases checks in at 62%. So there's a 30 point gap between those two items. That is a little larger than what we typically find this last cycle. Um, for the most part, the average gap was maybe 23 24% for most districts. And so what this tells us is relative to most communities, your community puts a bit more emphasis on education, less and less emphasis on preventing local tax increases compared to most. The other thing I will point out though also is the very bottom of that list you see repairing and upgrading aging school facilities checks in at 58% support. So well below the issue of maintaining the quality of education, local public schools, just below the issue of preventing local
034tax increases. I point that out not because it's unusual. We see that often, but it's a healthy reminder that although bonds are about facilities, right? They're about fixing and improving your facilities when it comes to education. Voters don't care as much about facilities as they care about what happens inside those facilities. And sometimes, as you see here, there's a bit of a disconnect in voters minds. They don't understand how facilities bottom list play into that number one bold at the top which is to maintain the quality of education schools. Right? So there's this they don't they don't see how those two connect naturally. So anytime you're moving forward with a bond, one of the sort of primary communications challenges is connecting the dots for voters, right? Here's what it is we're going to be addressing
035in terms of our facilities. But here's also why it ultimately matters to our core mission of educating students, right? So how do those two things connect? So after that warm-up question, we get right down to business with what we call the initial ballot test. And the idea behind the initial ballot test is before we get any deeper into this interview and we start talking in more detail with voters about the projects could be funded, presenting arguments pro and con related to this proposal. We wanted to present to respondents a mockup of what we think that 75word ballot statement could look like and get their reaction. It's a really good gauge of where your voters are at on the natural with respect to this proposal because they have not seen anything at this point in the
036interview beyond what you see here. The 75word ballot statement here takes the form of a legally compliant bond ballot statement. You could take this and put it on the ballot as it sits. And I'll point a couple things out. The top part in the bullets is is what it is uh sort of a summary of what it is that you're proposing to do. It doesn't encompass every project. There's a project list in the resolution that would detail that, but it gives a flavor for what the bond would do. And we have this set at an $83 million bond at legal rates without increasing current CAT rates, tax rates. I'll talk about that in a second, leving $8.85 per 100,000 about of assessed value. Um, as as the language, you have that in the parenthesis there
037where it says without increasing current tax rates, you have what is known as a bond extension. Right? Most of the time when you pass a bond, whatever that tax rate is is going to be stacked on top of the existing tax rates, right? So in this case, if this were not a bond extension, you would have an additional $8.85 per 100,000 assessed valuation tax increase for properties. Because you have an extension, what this allows you to do, you have a bond that's coming off the books. This new bond would fill in right behind that bond, and the tax rate just goes out into into the future without increasing. In other words, you can pass an $83 million bond without actually increasing the tax rates that um property owners are uh paying. And so I point
038that out because I'll I'll have another slide here in a minute. But um so that's the 75word ballot statement. And here are the initial results. So at the initial ballot test, we had 59% of respondents say that they would support this proposal, 28% opposed. And you've got about 13% who runs shore. In the state of California, for a Prop 39 bond to be successful, you need 55% support. So, we're sitting about four points north of that 55% threshold that's required for passage at the initial ballot test. Now, I mentioned that bond extension concept, right? In the 75 words, which are constrained. There's a lot of things you have to say in the 75 words. We try and capture that by having in parenthesis without increasing current tax rates. Not everybody gets that, right? They don't
039necessarily see that in the 75 words. And so we followed up this question with another question where we said, "All right, voters approved a bond in 2001 to construct and repair local school facilities. The current tax rate for that bond is $8.85 per 100,000 of assessed valuation. The measure we've been discussing would not increase the property tax rates your household currently pays. It would simply extend the current $8.85 tax rate for an additional period of time to make priority repairs and improvements to school classrooms, school facilities, instructional technology. So we get a chance to explain the bond extension concept in a way that you really can't in the 75 words. And when we do that, this is the difference. So we go from 59% at the initial ballot test. Once we explain the bond extension
040concept, support jumps up to 66%. So that's an increase of about seven points. And at this point in the survey, we are now sitting 11 points north of the 55% threshold that's required for passage. Um, quick side step here in the survey. Uh, we always like to ask folks to tell us how they'd rate the overall quality of education provided into your district on this scale of excellent, good, fair, poor, very poor. Uh, we ask them for two reasons. One, we tend to find that the better job they feel you're doing in your core mission of educating students, the more likely they tend to be to support these types of measures. And secondly, we want to know what percentage of your voters are disconnected enough from the district that they can't answer this question, right?
041They don't know enough about you to even say whether you're doing a good or bad or a poor job in educating students. What you find here on this pie chart are sort of two things. Number one, you do have a high level of awareness in your community about the quality of education provided in the district. Only 13% of voters told us they weren't sure. I have seen some studies where we've done this and it'll be a third of voters u don't know, right? They're just so disconnected from the district. So here your community is pretty aware of of the district and has an opinion on this and obviously among those who have an opinion you have very positive score here. 74% of all voters uh rated the overall quality of education in the district as
042as excellent or good. Okay. From there we shift gears to the projects and improvement section of the survey. Here is where we're trying to do two things. We are now going to start to educate respondents more about what this measure will accomplish. Um, up till this point, they'd only seen the 75word bout statement. You can only say so much in 75 words, what you're going to do with funds. Here, we unpack it into a series of potential uses. And in that way, they're getting a better idea about what this bond is about. The other thing it allows us to do is to understand of all the ways you can spend the money, how do voters feel about each of these ways, and which of these are their priorities. As you look at this slide, um,
043and I broke it into two tiers just because it's easier to read that way. Um, and there's nothing magical about the break, but it's worth noting that every single project on this slide had better than 80% of voters say that they would favor spending some of the money on this item. The things that tend to gravitate towards the top are things that are we commonly see gravitate towards the top. So, CTE is really popular. Uh, basic repairs to your facilities, roofs, plumbing, electrical, gas lines, sewer lines, voters understand you need to take care of your facilities. And then instructional technology and on down. So, you've got everything on this list is is popular. Um, here's how it pans out as you go to the towards the bottom of the tier. The one at the bottom
044there, it's still not it's not like it's not popular. You still have over 60% of folks say that they would favor spending some of the money on that item. However, we do tend to find that when sort of energy improvements for energy improvement sake tend to be a little more of a lukewarm project compared to some of the other things that are a little more direct about uh classroom improvements. So, uh, if you as a board choose to place a measure on a ballot, there's going to be an election cycle. During that election cycle, you're going to have a lot of discussion and debate in the community about your proposal, right? You'll have some folks who will undoubtedly step up and advocate to the community on behalf of this measure, go out and talk to
045folks about why this is needed and why they should vote yes. You might also get some opponents, right? People step up, say, "It's a terrible idea. Shouldn't be doing it." Right? Here's why. For this survey to be a reliable gauge of the feasibility of a bond measure, we need to simulate that discussion and debate in the space of the interview. So we have a good understanding not only of where your voters are today, which was that initial ballot test, but what happens after they hear positives and what happens after they hear negatives. So shown here are the positive arguments we tested. Um the nature of the question is supporters of the measure say blank. You insert a positive argument. Do you think this is a very convincing, somewhat convincing or not at all convincing reason
046to support the measure? And you can see here that we've got a lot of arguments that on the positive side that resonate with voters. Uh the you know as you go down that list um and so it's good to sort of simulate that and so we've sort of simulated this scenario where you have a positive campaign out there talking with voters. So at this point voters have now heard more about this proposal than they did initially. On the one hand you know after the initial ballot test we had a chance to talk about the bond extension concept. We conveyed some information about how the funds could be spent. We also tested positive arguments. So, we circle to what we call the interim ballot test. We present the same 75word ballot statement. We say, "Now that
047you've heard a bit more, where do you stand?" You can see that at this point, support for the proposal checks in at 70%. In favor, 24% opposed with the rest unsure. Um this is up about four points from where we were um after the bond extension clarification and we're now sitting about 15 points north of the 55% threshold that's required for passage. And then we get to the negatives. The idea behind the negatives is I am going to pressure test voter support for this proposal by peppering them with a series of negative arguments. Right? The kind of negatives you would expect to hear from a critic of this measure. The point of this is to simulate should you get opposition, should they be vocal and get their message out there, how much of an impact
048might that have on your bond. Um, you can see here that uh we actually test more negatives here than we typically do um in a poll. Uh, and we certainly didn't pull our punches in terms of the arguments that we're testing. So, you've probably heard that, you know, the theme of this election cycle is going to be sort of affordability, right? Affordability, cost of living. That's going to be a theme we're hearing today. We're going to be hearing it all the way to November, right? And so we designed some arguments that'll lean right into that concern. And the number one negative being residents and local businesses have been hit hard by inflation, high interest rates, and cost of living increases. Many are struggling to stay afloat. Now is not the time to be raising taxes.
049You always hear now is not the time, right, for to be raising taxes. The reasons vary, right, year to year, but you're always going to hear that argument. And so we uh test these negatives. And you can see some get some traction, but the real question is what happens afterwards and that is here. So the negatives cool us down about six points from where we were at that interim ballot test and we land at 64% support 26% opposed and the rest unsure. So although it cools us down and we're at 64, we're ending after negative still nine points north of the 55% threshold that's required for passage. Okay, couple wrap-up slides here for you. Um so what does all this mean? I'm going to circle back first to that overarching question I mentioned at the
050outset as the main motivator for why you do this research which is to understand is it feasible if you as a board were to choose to place a measure on the ballot does it have a reasonable chance of success I will tell you that in a lot of the districts that I've been working with um if they're getting yeses are getting qualified yes it's sort of a yes but right yes but here's other things you're going to have to do to change your measure here's some other concerns that you have based on these poll results you're getting sort of an unqualified yes right? Um based on these numbers, I think you've got a not just a reasonable chance of success, you've got a measure that has a very good chance of success uh should you
051choose to pursue one. The reasons for that are everything you see under the positive signs, right? We saw that maintaining the quality of education in in local public schools were the number one issue facing the community. Uh sufficient natural support based on that 75word ballot statement, 59% that quickly jumped to twothird support once we clarified the bond extension concept, right? that this is not going to increase the tax rate that households currently pay. It's just extending it into the future. Um, all the projects are popular. You've got positive arguments that resonate. And importantly, and this is really the key, at every time we tested that 75word ballot statement in the survey, it was north of the 55% threshold that's required for passage. And that's even after we hit respondents with a series of negative arguments,
052right? We simulated an opposition campaign. When you see that pattern, right, when you see those pieces in place, those are what you want to see in place for a measure to be feasible. Now, part of that, I will just say offhand is because this is a bond extension, right? We I've done a lot of regular bonds uh in my career, done close to 200 measures around the state. Bond extensions, it's a different conversation, right? New bond, new, it's going to be a tax increase. You're going to get a lot more scrutiny on those measures. when you're talking about a bond extension, they just tend to be much more attractive and palatable measures for voters because they can in this case get 80 plus million dollars for their schools and their property tax rates aren't going
053to increase. Um, so that's part of it. Um, actually in my career, I've only seen one bond extension ever lose on the ballot that they voted and that had everything to do with the board voted to place it on the ballot and then two of the board members changed their mind and campaigned against their own measure. So yeah, you can sync a bond extension, but you know, if you don't shoot yourself in the foot, all right, you you'll probably do okay. Um, so final slide here. Um, you know, I mentioned that you've got really solid numbers, you've got good feasibility, um, and they're promising results. That said, it's always important to keep in mind that a survey like this is a snapshot in time, right? It is not a crystal ball looking forward to election
054day saying you're going to get 70% on election day. It tells us where your voters at today. Tells us how they react to the types of information that could encounter during an election cycle. But ultimately, what determines what happens on election day isn't what your poll says today. It's everything that happens from this point forward. And so, it's just a reminder that you got to make smart decisions about the measure that you put in front of voters should you decide to do that so that it's well aligned with the type of measure their community is interested in supporting. And you got to put the work in in terms of communications. And that's both as a district um non-advocacy communications are thing as a public agency that you can and should do to raise awareness in
055the community. Help them understand how your facilities connect to those your core mission of educating students and start to build consensus around a bond proposal. And then ultimately there would need to be an independent campaign that would be private dollars, volunteer time separate from the district that would go out and advocate for this measure during the election cycle. I've thrown a lot at you. I've talked as fast as I can. So, um, thank you for your patience on that. I'm I'm happy to answer any questions that may be from the board. >> Thank you so much for that summary of the report. I read every page, so I appreciate um I appreciate the summary. Um, I just want to remind um everyone, including the board, this is the first step in the process. We are
056going to be asking questions, then we're going to move to public comment, and then we'll come back for any further comments or discussions by the board. Um I would like to I would like to encourage you to not um this is not a vote. Um we are s merely asking questions and having discussions. So I would like to caution the board to um imposing your opinion on whether we should or should not. This is um the beginning of the factf finding um effort. Um so with that I'd like to open it up to board questions. Um may I start with you member Kelly? >> I have no questions. I thought you did a really good job. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, thank you. Howard, do you have any questions? >> Did you all have
057any role at any point in any of the down in um Aliso Niguel School District? Um they did a couple of bonds >> USD district us with what went on down there over the last like five years or whatever. >> Yeah. So we we in we did some of the research for them and some of the earlier research was done by a different firm. Um that is always that's been a a case where as a district one of the things they've run into is a lot of push back from the communities that they're looking to do a bond in. Right. And so when you have mayors of a local city come out and or city council members decide to take positions on school bonds and have actually funded opposition, right, where they're sending mailers and
058things. Difficult to win under that scenario, right? They've I know that they've looked several times and every time we've done the polling formula, we we said it's always touch and go. It's like they're on the bubble, right? you could the kind of results that say you can win or you can lose it kind of depends on these external factors and unfortunately they have always run into some pretty challenging external factors. So they I I can't remember. I think there were two of them. Um or maybe there were three of them. >> I think over time we weren't involved. There was one in 2016 and I know that one was was one of I mean 2016, by the way, November was a great election for for bond measures around the state. Everything that we had in
059Orange County was successful. We didn't work with them in that cycle. They were unsuccessful. Um and but I know they caught a lot of push back at that point. mult part of the problem you get in a big district like that that spans a lot of cities is there's always this concern about well where's the money going to be spent right if I vote to raise my taxes here is it going to stay in my part of the district or is it going to be spent over there so they ran into a lot of that problem the first time they then later went to what's called school facility improvement districts or SFIDs where they carved up different SFIDs the problem with that one particularly the Elisa Vejo one is when you can draw a boundary
060around that. But the problem is like at least a third of the students who are attending that school, the don't don't actually live in at least Vienna, right? So now you have this fairness issue that pops up in a campaign about well, you know, we're the ones paying for it, but these families over here get to enjoy the school, but they're not even getting taxed. It's just been a challenge for them. And again, they've they've seem to be getting opposition from up on high, right? they tend to get pressure from uh city council members and and others. >> But the VJO and Nigel school district is combined. Right. >> So Capistrano USD is it covers I can't remember how many cities but Alisa Vjo is in there Dana Point Laguna Niguel it's all under one
061large uh thing. you they you can carve pieces of the district out into these school facility improvement districts or taking a piece there and they've tried that a couple of times and even that has not been successful. >> Do were those do you know which of those if any were extensions as opposed to new? >> None. >> There were no extensions. >> No extensions. Yeah. >> Is that the end of your questions for now? Okay. Great. Thank you. I'll go to this side. Um, uh, Student Member Debs, do you have any questions? >> I do not. >> Thank you. Uh, member Perry. >> Sure. Um, so this looks promising. Thank you so much for your work. Um, one of the things that was concerning to me was about the asbestous and a lot of people
062said that that was um a a big concern for them and I know over the years we have worked really hard to get rid of asbestous and um I I um I don't want any students or any staff exposed to asbestous. seems like we should be getting we should be on this right away. And I know Ryan has done a wonderful job redoing things. I mean, how how big a problem is this? So, I I don't want to speak on behalf of facilities, but I and we had these conversations early on. My understanding is that some of your facilities may still have some, others are pretty clean. Right. The point of testing this item is because when you're doing a bond and you have to establish a project list that defines what you can and
063can't do with the funds. If you were to purposely omit this, right, and then guess what? You dig into a building and lo and behold, you find asbestous, right? Or you find lead pipes or things like that. Then there's this open question about can you use bond funds to do these things, right? So when you have older facilities when there has been that in the past typically that is included an item that way if you encounter it and the way it was worded was to remove these things where encountered right so we're not trying to give the impression that there's a lot of it but when you encounter it you want to be able to remove it >> right but it it is frightening to think that that's out there exposing >> I mean it
064is frightening in one level and on the other hand if you look around California and you think about how for how long those were standard construction materials I I struggle to think of a district that I've worked in that does not have asbestous, right? It's it's but it's not like it's floating around in the air, right? It's in, you know, it's in panels. It's in safe places, but when you're remodeling a classroom, you're going to disturb it, right? And that's when you've got to mediate it. >> Okay. So, our our list has to be pretty specific about what the funds are used for. Correct. >> Yeah. So the 75 words isn't the boundary of what you can spend the money on because you can't describe it all in 75 words. In the resolution there will
065be a project list where you can define what it is you're going to do. Typically, you want to write those so that you have some flexibility, right, moving forward because sometimes things change, right? So, for example, we've had this case where, you know, maybe you pass a bond and then two years from now, and I'm just making this up, right? But it's actually happened in district, like the roof falls in on a particular site. And had they not had dealing with roofs in their project list, they wouldn't been able to spend bond monies to go fix that, right? The point of the project list is to kind of show what it is you're intending to spend the money on, but also give yourself a little bit of wiggle room in case something pops up. >>
066And what if our project list doesn't add up to the 80 plus million? >> Um, typically, um, well, the project list as you go down it, it's not just what you necessarily your needs are this moment, it is also funds in the future, right? Um, these are bonds typically and I don't know, Adam, if if you have a cycle in terms of what sort of >> that that are go for the next 20 years. I mean, it's a 20-year bond. >> Yeah. Let me bring Adam in. He'll probably be better to comment on that. >> Yeah. With the tax rate that you're at, you're the second lowest in the county. The other one that is out there is is Capron USD, which is the lowest in the county. Um, but that the reason why I
067bring that point up is that dollar amount very rarely even scratches the surface on your needs. But to the extent that you got out there and you had a measure that you didn't need to use the full authorization, then the board would take an action to um ask the county to eliminate the authorization. And once the school board has taken that action and then the county has taken that action, then the bond measure would be um eliminated. The the question was what if we had a measure and didn't that didn't couldn't use all the money >> and if you did that there's a method you can take to get rid of authorization. >> Oh okay. >> Yeah. >> I don't see the issue. >> Exactly. >> Mo most districts it's not an issue of can
068we spend the money we can get. >> It's probably not here. >> How many bonds do we have to spend to pass to fix our facilities? Right. and it seems like um the tax rate extension is really in our favor. Um we just need to make sure that we can explain that very succinctly to people. >> The other thing I will point out about the tax rate extensions is it sounds a little cheesy but they're a limited time offer right meaning the way they work is as you are approaching the point at which the prior bond's going to come off the books you are able to do a tax rate extension. if you were to push out and say, "Hey, we're not going to go in 26. We're going to go in 28." A lot
069of times for districts that that extension doesn't exist anymore or if it exists because the tax rate has gone down between 26 and 28. Now you can you don't have $8.85 to extend, you have some smaller amount, right? So, typically when districts get into the window of a bond extension like this, it just makes sense to take advantage of that opportunity because again, it's a completely different conversation with property owners and voters about extending what they're currently paying than increasing their tax rates. >> Right. Well, thank you very much. >> Thank you, member Moses. Other questions? Thank you. >> Thank you. I have a few. Um, I am really concerned about the asbestos question and I actually wanted if you don't mind, just want to ask really quickly to Ryan. What is our asbestous situation?
070Because if this is putting students at risk, I would think that we need to move this forward immediately and address it this summer. >> Fortunately, there's a state law that requires us to do an Abessa survey and it's done every three years. It's redone. Um, and so it's posted on our facilities web page right now. Um the last survey was done in 2023 and we're we'll be doing a new one this year in 2026. It does identify all of our school sites and where known asbesus or lead is located. it's known um like was mentioned it can be buried in ceilings, walls and in the ground and when we do projects we do sometimes come across those materials and they do have to be abaded but for overall um there it's limited but it does
071exist and I think the report does a good job of identifying those known locations but they're not in areas that are hazardous to health and um they're not in places where you're subjected to them as staff or students. They're pretty much concealed in in a way that they're um not they're not an exposure. >> Ryan, is that report on our website? >> Yes, the report is on our website under the reporting page on the facilities website. >> Great. >> Dr. Dr. Glass, >> thank you. Just a quick follow up on that. Um and just to clarify for the community, um asbestous in schools does not mean that students are at risk. The asbestous is in it's in the walls. it's in the floor and it only becomes an issue when you disturb it. So when
072we do construction, you have to think about if if asbestous is present, you have to take a bunch of steps to abate it or mitigate it. And but I just want everyone to know that asbestous is not floating around in the schools. It's only an issue when you uh begin demolishing something for construction. >> It's it's not in the typical classroom in the school district. So an example is the high school. If you went down to the Duggar gym into the boiler room that used to be a boiler back in the day, there's a large tank with insulation around it that was used for the the locker room hot water. That tank is obsolete. We have tankless water heaters now lined up in a manifold, but that tank is still in there. It's massive. And
073the insulation around it has a bestus in it. Um, so no one has access to that room except some some maintenance staff, but as long as you don't disturb it, it's not a human health risk, but it's something that we we should abate at some point in time. And so those are the types of opportunities we have I think through this measure to >> Okay. I just want to make sure because student safety is super important and I will get back to you but I'd like to ask a couple of questions first. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. Um, so I'm cons I'm curious as to um how some of these things were identified because I do to um let's see what page is that to um member Malchesky's point. She was concerned if the board
074were to um participate in any of the formulation of the questions, but it says in the report that you worked with the staff to help formulate the questions on what we would be asking the community. Is that correct? >> Yeah. So the way it works is I mean obviously I do this a lot. So the methodology and the structure of the questionnaire, the basic wording of the questions, those are my my creation, right? Um but in understanding there's a back and forth that happens where you know to understand what your facility needs are, right? So we have a conversation. It's mainly about what are the facility needs that you have. So I understand what those are. We talk a bit about the financials. um that's not something I create, but between the district and uh
075your financial adviser, they come up with that. And then some of the arguments we test, those are based on just my experience doing this for hundreds of districts, I understand the types of things that tend to pop up during an election cycle, right? The kinds of things that proponents tend to say, the kind of things that critics tend to say, and we want to simulate that in the survey. Um and so that's kind of how it works. What is the um so with that and I think maybe man needs to chime in because we have a facilities uh committee um FM f FMP facility master plan committee and it's comprised of community members staff um and and the board and we are evaluating and assessing the the the sites to determine what our needs are.
076So, where does that facilities I know I've asked this question, but where is that where does that facility plan um intersect with this conversation? Um because we have, you know, our our funding is increasing. I think we're almost $40,000 a student now, 38 $40,000 a student, but our enrollment is declining. And so, how does that information factor into this um process? >> Yeah. So part of what you see in the survey is is trying to make facilities jargon. And I mean if you read a facilities master plan, um you know there's there's a little bit of jargon in there. The average person's not going to know what the heck that thing is. Like what is a multi-purpose room, right? I don't know, right? And so what we do here is we look at the facility
077plans that you have or we look at the needs that you have and then we try and put them in language that the average voter can understand. They don't have to have a background in planning, right? or architecture or anything else to be able to do. Um, sometimes when we work with districts, they they're in the process of facilities master plan and it's helpful to see kind of from your voters's perspective of look, if you put this stuff in plain English and you put it in compartments, what do they care the most about, right? CTE, right? STEM, structural technology, taking care of roof, plumbing, electrical. And so that can also help as you're, you know, if you're formulating your you're finalizing your facilities and master plan like we did this with Carl'sbad USD. These these
078two efforts spoke to each other and they wound up altering their facilities and master plan and priorities in part based on what the community told them from the survey they were most interested in seeing done. So in our survey though, if it if the number one priority is maintaining quality of education and repairing facilities is lower on the scale, there's like you said, I think a 30% diff a 30 point difference. Um I'm cons I'm curious as to um how well I have a couple more questions on that. How um how does that factor into the the feasibility of passing of the bond passing if our facilities have been identified as being very wellmaintained throughout the years, but we certainly have improvements that we need to make in some areas or another. This bond total
079package, the 85 million was based on a current extension of the of the current bond. So if we're doing if and this is kind of comes back to the FMP where it can where it cross-sections with with this need can we propose we can obviously propose us a lower bond if if we identify that we have a lesser need. Would that obvious would that increase the percentage? Was that study done on if we identified a lower need or a lower amount that it would increase or not? So in most cases when you're talking about a bond extension the idea is whatever the tax rate is currently right or will be in 26 and which in this case is $885 you're going to extend that into the future right it happens to be that you can
080raise what was it $83 million um using you know sort of conservative assumptions with that if you chose to say we don't need if you said we don't need $83 million we need $40 million right you wouldn't want to extend a lower amount becomes a harder conversation. But what you might do is extend that amount out for a shorter period of time. You know what I mean? So you would raise less funds, right? But you'd still extend the same tax rate. I would point out though that that first question about importance of issues, it just kind of gives you the 30,000 foot view look at what your voters care about. And what it says, and as I pointed out, is they really think about what happens inside the classrooms. They tend not to think as
081much about the classroom themselves. However, as you go through the survey and you get to explain some of the types of improvements that could be funded by a bond, as we saw, you know, there's no shortage of support for a bond to do those things. And so, it isn't that they don't care about facilities, they just don't immediately connect how those, you know, uh impact the educational environment. >> Thanks. Thank you. Um and then I had two other questions. Um in the survey um was so these two kind of go together. Um was the city was it was any question or any u position taken on the possibility that if the city itself is also looking for funding in one way or another that might show up on the ballot, how would that impact this?
082And then my second question to that is when the survey was done and the 547 was it um 92651 voters or did it was did it also include Aliso and Crystal Cove? >> So it would be the the boundaries of your district. So anybody who lives within the boundaries of your district that are going to be part of this, right? I remember looking at the map and there's a there's a there's a you know you have the stuff that's down here by the coast and you also have this stuff tucked up above. Um, so anybody in there and that's a registered voter and is a likely November voter have the same probability of being selected. In terms of this idea about maybe the city's going to go for a measure and be on the same
083ballot, we did have when that comes up, we like to test that as a negative, meaning like this idea that you're not the only thing on the ballot. You're going to potentially have competition from other things. And the way we worded that was everyone's coming after us for tax increases, including state, local taxes, school bonds, other taxes that will be on the ballot later this year. Enough is enough. we can't afford to keep raising our taxes. So hard-hitting negative argument at the exact point that you were just bringing up, which is you're not going to be the only thing on the ballot, right? >> That's like 62%. Right. >> Yeah. As a as a So, it gets a reaction. But even after that argument as negatives plus all the others we tested when we came
084back after that and said, "Okay, one more time, right? Here's the 75word ballot statement. Where do you sit?" And at that point, we had 64% support, right? So we are still nine points above. So that's the kind of point is we understand that in election cycle you're going to get you're going to get some opposition usually do somebody's going to write arguments against typically happens right there's going to be some buzz in the community. That's the whole reason why we test it in the poll because we want to know how sort of resilient is your measure, right? Should you get opposition? Should that be out there? Does how much of an impact does it have? And we see it has some impact, but even afterwards, you're still nine points over the 55. >> Um, and
085then I had one last question. You talked about the bond extension has a time frame. Can you define that or explain that? >> I'm gonna let Adam jump in on that one. He knows it better. So the 2001 measure has an $8.85 per 100,000 tax through 2026. And then in 2027 that drops down to about $4.50 and 2028 to about $4.75. And that's just because when the bonds were set up, they just like you said, maybe they didn't need the full amount, so they didn't use the full term in those later years. And so anyway, it tapers off after 2026. So then to pursue something like an extension, you need about half the tax rate that we've targeted here. >> To have file an extension, we need half the tax rate. That's what you just
086said. >> Yeah. So after 2026, the tax rate drops from $8.85 down to about $4.25 per thousand. And then in 2028, it ends all together. >> It ends all together. So there's no opportunity to even pursue an extension after that. >> But you could reissue you could pursue >> you can go for a new bond but as Dr. McCarnney has talked about that level of support is much lower for a new bond versus an extension. >> Right. Okay. And okay. >> And is that November of 20 like 2028 for example because I think you said there was a number associated with 2028 up until that point and would that be November because that's when the first one was approved. >> Yeah. I was trying not to get into too much of the details here but
087in two 2028 you would have to do a June election because this is on till 2728. You had to submit to the county to be on the tax roll for the next year in August of a particular year. So you could not do a November election. You could you could do June and then rush to get on to the next year's tax role. So the two elections that you have as options to you is 26 at $8.85 or um 28 with half that tax rate in June. >> Okay. Member Majeski. So, just to get clarification on that, um, if we waited until 2027, everybody's tax rate would be going down to 475 or whatever. And so, an extension would only be at 475. So, trying to get the same amount would require us to increase
088the amount of the bond. >> That's exactly right. And then the one thing I want to make sure that everyone understands though is you can only do these in even years. So 27 is not an option. You have 26 and 28. >> So we would have to wait till 28 if we didn't do this and then it would have to be a June election which would we would have to pay for that extra ballot. And then >> you're on the there's a primary election so you could probably go there. And then one other nuance is most presidential cycles we we have a March election as well. So that's another possibility. But it's a very difficult time to pass one, >> right? But but the point is is that if we wanted to do the same
089amount of money, we would have to increase the tax rate. >> That is correct. >> Okay. My second question is um to President Morgan's question um she was noticing on this graph that people are most concerned with maintaining the quality of education in the local public schools and there's a big difference and at the bottom is repairing and upgrading aging social or school facilities. But in fact, we still come in at 58% of the voters want to repair and upgrade our aging school facilities. So, we still meet the minimum number of votes required for a bond. >> Yeah. And that and and just to be clear also, you're right. It's it's at the bottom of the list, but it's still 58% of voters who think that's a very extremely or very important issue. The real
090question is the ballot tests themselves, right? when you present to somebody because somebody can go, "Oh, repairing and upgrading aging school facilities are really important and then you give them the ballot language and they're like, "Nope, I'm not I'm not voting for that." Right? So, the issue is how do they react at those ballot tests themselves? And we saw that before they understood the bond extension concept, we had 59% support, right? the moment they understood the bond extension concept, you're up at twothirds and you stay there uh until you hit them with a bunch of opposition arguments and even then you land at 64, right? So, um clearly there's an appetite, you know, among either a you know, more than 55% and and for a lot of the survey twothirds of voters saying, "Yeah, uh
091we're interested in this." Um, and again that has everything to do with FAT in part. Those numbers they're as high as errors because it's a bond extension. If we were talking about a new bond, different conversation, your numbers would be lower. I can't say exactly how much lower, um, but they'd be lower. >> Thank you. Um, I'm a little so couple of the So, I think I'm a little concerned with some of just the the way the questions are are are stated because I I'm concerned that they might be leading um those that were surveyed into a possible false understanding of what's actually needed. And I think that um it's really important if we're bringing this forward that we are as transparent as possible of what our needs actually are. There's there and I I
092appreciate the survey. I appreciate that you approached it from also what could be a negative um as well so we could see how that changes things. There's concern that the that because of previous projects that are getting ready to kick off um that we have not been so forthcoming in what is an accurate representation of what is needed. And so is there as this comes forward would if it were on the agenda if it were on the ballot and I say would because I'm not taking a position one way or the other. I'm asking questions as I said before would we we would be fine-tuning the list of needs and would that need to be attached somewhere or available for voters to look at to see what do we really need and how much does
093it really cost because like for example you say some schools were built so long ago underground clay cast iron pipes infrastructures are failing gas leaks water leaks sewage backup last year alone there were dozen roof leaks that's really concerning to me and but some of those I think are um like roof leaks and stuff I believe would be repaired under the f um the repair and replace, right? So, how do we ensure that what we are asking our community because I think that um what I would hate to see is that we come forward with something with a request only to have it be misrepresented on what our actual needs are because I think there's a huge interest in making sure that we're investing in our staff, in our students, in robotics. I think somebody
094had mentioned robotics and and you know I know you know a year and a half ago science that was one of the conversations was we need more robotics you know we have gardens we need to discuss hydroponics you know world hunger is an issue in by 2050 how do we you know prepare our students for that so how do we ensure transparency on what our true needs are and the dollar amounts associated to that as we come into that I understand asking for as much as you can get coming in but I would hate to misrepresent what our needs are because that's not being transparent and it's not holding ourselves accountable to how we spend our money. >> So, I mean, my understanding is you have an FMP in progress, right? So, that's part of
095how you define what your facility needs are, right? And what the dollars are attached to that. Um, when you go to the ballot, should you decide to do that, there is a project list in the resolution that is going to detail how you would intend to spend the money. Generally speaking, if you've got a finished FMP, right, and you know what your priorities are and then you look at what voters priorities are, what you're looking for is the intersection of those things, right? Where do we all agree? Here's our needs. Here's what voters want to see. You can define that within your project list. These are things that the board ultimately gets the gets the final say on, right? Um as part of putting a measure on the ballot. So that's this is not a
096process that's going to run forward without obviously the board having eyes on it and having discussions about it. And that includes that project list. >> Thank you. I really appreciate all the information. You guys did a great job. Thank you so much. Thank you. >> Um does is there any more questions from the board? Is there any questions from the community from the um staff as well? >> If I may, um I know this has question come up and I'm I'm know the answer to it. How would you explain the number the sample size compared to the total population in the district and whether it's a reliable sample size and this is for the whole community. >> Sure. So uh the beautiful thing about inferial statistics is it is not how many people you talk
097to as it is how you choose the people that you talk to that allows you to take what is seems like a comparatively small sample. Right? in this case uh what we have 5747 and be able to extrapolate the data and know within a certain margin of error what we would have found had we spoken with every single likely voter in the district. Um the neat thing about this and I I mean I have it on my paper. You're not going to be able to see this. The relationship between sample size and margin of error is not a line. It's a curve, right? It's a curve. And what you find is that to meet the academic standard for statistical reliability, which is a margin of error of less than plus or minus 5% at the
09895% confidence level, you need 400 interviews. And the size of the community doesn't really matter, right? Like that that 400 interviews done with a random sample in Laguna Beach is going to have about the same margin of error as it would if I did it in the city of LA, right? So the population size doesn't really matter that much. Um, so you'll see a lot of surveys that are out there, particularly in smaller communities, that are at 400. We are at 547. That gives us instead of a plus or minus 4.9% margin of error, we're at about plus or minus, what did I say? 4.1% margin of error. And so we have a little bit of benefit there, right? But to give you an idea, if we were to say double that, we'll say call
099it a thousand, right? We're only going to go down to plus or minus 3%. Right? and the line just flattens out into the future such that you only get to zero when you've surveyed all 18,041 of your likely November voters. So the sample size here is actually larger than is needed to meet the academic standard for statistical reliability by about 157 completes. >> Thank you. That was a question because I know I highlighted on that page um that the reader should use caution when generalizing and interpreting the results for small subgroups >> for small subgroups. So if in the survey you know for example we talk about all and a lot of the results here are among voters overall occasion we'll get in there we'll say okay this is how it compares between families with
100children currently attending your schools or not right or how long they've lived in the community or what their age is anytime you start to segment data like that your margins of error are based on the subgroup sample size. So that's why we have that cautionary note, right? Like you don't want to the margin of error is going to go up if you isolate a group that's got we only have 50 of them in this particular survey for example. >> Thank you. I I I asked those because I know the 2001 bond passed wonderfully with 80% and I think this smaller margin is a little concerning and in everything in our community is um raises question right. >> Yeah. So one thing I also say that in we got to be a little cautious about comparing
101today bonds in today's environment to bonds prior to 2018 because in 2018 there was a rule change called AB195 that changed the way the 75word ballot statement must be written and it now has to include a bunch of things at the bottom which we have in ours that can be a little confusing to the average voter like it has to say the tax rate in terms of a rate per 100,000 assessed valuation has to say the annual levy has to say the duration on top of the bond amount. So there's a lot of mumbo jumbo at the bottom that is understandably a little confusing for people who don't do this. And what we found around the state, we did a ton of research on this is it tends to depress support for bond measures an
102average of seven points. So just that language change this AB195 took takes what used to be if you used to say have 70% support for your bond in your community in that same environment if you test the new language you get 63% support right so that's why I'm saying you got to be careful about comparing to the past because there is that important difference which is at play as well not just time >> thank you u member Hills you had another question then we can move to public comment >> okay thank you is there Any other questions from anyone? No. Okay, seeing none, we can move. Thank you so much for your presentation. It was very informative and I I actually did enjoy reading it. So, thank you. Um, uh, clerk, other comments, please. >>
103Sure. Um, our first speaker will be Kelly Osborne. >> Kelly, >> good evening, board members. Nice to see everybody. This is my favorite topic, so I'm so pleased to be able to address you all about it. Um, again, I'm Kelly Osborne. I was a board member from 2020 to 2024. I'm here to express support for the proposed bond extension to generate 88 million for our schools. I think it's a thoughtful approach that reflects fiscal discipline and a deep commitment to our students. Um, as you know, schools are the heart of this community. They shape not only academic outcomes but also the safety, the well-being and future opportunities for every child who walk through those doors. Maintaining and improving our facilities is not a luxury. It's a necessity. This proposal is especially compelling because it does
104not increase the tax burden on residents. Instead, it extends an existing bond in a way that allows us to reinvest in our schools while honoring the community's financial boundaries. And that balance matters. Additionally, it's compelling because of where our district stands today. At $885 per 100,000 of assessed value, we have the second lowest school tax rate in all of Orange County. Yes, the second lowest. If you look at other community funded districts like ours, they continue to invest in their schools. They have bonds. Newport Mesa, they pay 17. Huntington Beach, 32. Irvine, we like to compare ourselves to Irvine. Well, they pay 27. And guess what? Their high school was not built in 1930s. So, we need to look around and be, you know, aware of what's happening. They're paying two to four times what
105we pay. So we have a very low indebtedness rate here in our district. Finally, it's compelling because of what we just heard from True North. You have the ballot testing research. It's showing 64% favorable, well above the 55% we need. And if you don't understand the survey design or statistically sampled uh statistically um significant samples, then read the full 44page study because it was very good. To close, I want to urge you all to think very strategically about this matter. It's not a small decision. What you are doing in the next couple weeks will impact what happens in our facilities for the next 30 years. It's not about addressing immediate needs. It's not about um asbestos today or roof leaks tomorrow. It's about planning for the next two decades and beyond. And this was the
106work you were meant to do. This is a moment you should not miss. If you allow this current bond to expire, it will be significantly more difficult to reintroduce a new one later and likely result in higher tax rates for all of us in this community. Please think about how you can lead this community and consider a solution that supports us all and positions the district for a strong future. Move the bond documents forward for a first reading without delay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Kelly. New Morris >> member um Perry. Well, can we have the next names too so people can prepare and come up? Thank you. >> Sure. After after N then will be Sarah Durand and then Erica Rule. >> Okay. Very good. Uh thank you. Good evening board. Um so I
107was excited but not very surprised to see the results of the survey. Um 73% responded saying our schools are good to excellent. 67% supporting the bond. This is pretty phenomenal stuff. Um but it's in keeping with the spirit of who what our town is. This is truly a once in a generation opportunity to renew this bond. No one gets a tax increase and we can invest in our schools. A couple of things to point in to put in mind. Um we constantly we've been comparing ourselves to Irvine and number of metrics here. Um, an average selling price of a house in Lagouna Beach is $3 million. If you were to buy a $3 million house in the Great Park right now, you would get a $29,000 mellow charge on your house to the point where
108certain applicants would not qualify for a great park house where they could park qualify for a house here in Laguna Beach. As Kelly mentioned, we have a quarter of the debt load as conservative Newport Beach up the coast. Um, we've also been questioned about why we can't be more like private schools. Well, to give you an idea, St. Margarets is about $45,000 a year and the expectation is that parents will commit about another $10,000 a year to capital campaigns. 20% of our housing stock will be turning over in the next 10 years and these houses will either be sold to families or to second homes and families are a dwindling commodity in our society. They're smaller and there's forces that are driving out of our state. Newport Beach, Dana Point, San Juan, they're not slouches
109like they used to be. We need to compete for these families. President Morgan, uh, Member Perry, you and I have both had we've had conversations with both of you on this topic. Um, and what what you've said both is pretty much identical and that you say we should take this to the voters to get their opinion. But you've also said that based off the conversations you're hearing, you don't think there will be support in the community. I suggest that you look at this result because it suggest it says that there will be support in the community. I would also ask that you consider this result in any number of other ch any number of other decisions that you might have to come before you. Let's move this forward to a vote in November. Thank you.
110>> Thank you, N. Hi, I'm Sarah Durand, executive director of School Power, a 20-year resident of Lagona Beach and parent of a high school student and two LBUSD graduates. Tonight, I'm here to reiterate a statement I made back in December about the importance of a bond measure for our schools. As you know, School Power's mission is to enrich education and support the well-being of all children in LBUSD. Our school facilities are central to that mission. Classrooms, theaters, fields, gyms, playgrounds, weight rooms, locker rooms, multimedia studios, kitchens, offices, and even restrooms. These spaces shape the student experience and the learning that happens on our campuses. With aging buildings and infrastructure, it already takes significant resources and capitals just to keep our campuses clean, safe, and functional. True modernization and innovation require even greater investment. Authorizing a
111bond would allow LBUSD to raise funds needed to benefit future students. I am so grateful for the school board members and voters of 2001 for my own children's experience in LBUSD because they approved a bond measure. My children had adequate classroom space at to performed in the blackbox theater at Thirsten, played volleyball in the Thirstston gym, and studied science in modern labs at LBHS. It's hard to imagine our ski schools without these facilities. My hope is that 25 years from now, the next generation of parents will be able to thank the members of this school board for your vision, your foresight, and the facilities their children enjoy. After reviewing the bond survey results tonight, I urge you all to listen to the experts who presented data that clearly shows the community's openness to support a
112bond measure and realize that the window is now for the election in November when we can extend the current tax rate. Support from each one of you is needed now. Please take the necessary steps when it is time to move forward with putting the bond resolution on the ballot. Thank you. >> Thank you, Sarah. Who's after Erica? Do we have cards after Eric? >> Hi, everyone. My name is Erica Rule. Um, I'm a LBUSD parent. I want to thank True North for the research and appreciate the transparency of this process. Uh, the district has facility needs. The district has a 10-year plan and we have the right funding tool for large capital projects. And now this survey data shows the community is open to using it. Our own bond survey found support at 59% rising
113to 67% once voters understand this would extend the current tax rate and then staying steady at 64% when you use uh the statistical significance of the data and that makes this bond not an uncertainty. This is an evidence-based path path that many of you have ran on to make evidence-based decisions. As a parent of a 5-year-old and a two-year-old, this matters really deeply to me. My family is just beginning in our journey on the in this district, and I know that we are not the only young family hoping that the trustees in charge are thinking long term. We are thinking about the campuses our children will grow up in and whether this district is willing to invest in its future with the seriousness families are investing in theirs. What can keep getting missed is that
114facilities and student services are often tied together. When a district uses bonds for major capital work, it protects operating dollars for the things that students actually use every day. That is how you preserve the educational program responsibly and repair current facilities or funding larger projects. The priorities are already clear. Safe, functional, modern schools. And the need is here. The plan is here. The families are here. The board cannot turn this into another longrunning production with no destination. The time to fund the future is now. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next, Jeb Brown and then Shaheen Shik Sadal and then Kimberly Smith. >> Thank you very much, Dr. McClary. I thought your presentation was uh informative and outstanding. Thank you very much. I learned something about inferial statistics and to be honest with you, I was
115hoping to never learn anything more about statistics. So, as as N mentioned, the average sale price of a home in Laguna Beach right now is $2.9 million. So at this tax rate, the proverbial average homeowner would pay $253 a year to get $83 million to the school district. This is an incredibly easy decision. And we know from this data that 66% of of the people that were surveyed, which is is based on the statistics we learned about as a representative example, would vote yes for the bond if it was held today. Miss Morgan, when when we were discussing the pool, you specifically asked if the $23 million used for the pool, there would be money left behind to to do other projects if they were necessary. This is your insurance policy to see that that
116will indeed happen. In summary, I encourage you to vote yes for the uh the bond issue. It seems to be a very straightforward decision. Thank you. I'm also here in support of moving the bond forward as a as actually as a commitment to the democratic process. At its core, this board is being asked not what they think about the bond or whether they think it is a sound decision to approve the bond for the district, but whether they are prepared to trust the voters to decide the future of our district and our schools. I don't think this bond discussion should become about private conversations, back channel conversations, outcomes shaped outside of public view. We should be transparent, open, and guided by our community. And obviously that matters more in the context of what we've seen
117here for the last year and a half with this board. Where where all of this decision making should happen for this bond is with the voters. And obviously the bo the community and the data support giving us the choice to move this bond forward or not. And as an aside, out of my own curiosity, I I did some digging and what I understand is that the original bond amount um when you do a net present value calculation, it roughly comes out to $75 million. So, I know we're throwing around $80 million like it's a huge amount of money. It is, but 20 years ago, a community decided to do that. Give us that amount of money in those days. We've had great uh data results presented tonight. Thank you for that. Really appreciate that. Um
118it's been said before just naturally 59% of the people in our town want this bond goes up to 67% clearly always clearing that 55% threshold. And the last thing I wanted to say is um with more than 70% of the v voters supporting this specific you know specific improvements that we can do with the bond. Crumbling schools don't make for wonderful excellent students. They just don't. And what we have here is a once in a-lif once in a generation opportunity to pay it forward for the next 20 years of kiddos that come through this school district. That's what I want to do. Somebody did that for for my kids and I would be happy to do that for somebody else's children. So, I just want to say obviously the community has weighed in already and
119now it's time to give us the chance to do so formally. Put this on the ballot in November. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Kimberly Smith. Uh first off, I'd like to thank the district for commissioning the survey and also uh Dr. I don't Dr. McLaren uh you and your staff, thank you for a comprehensive polling and a very thorough presentation. I've got to say, wow, we must all be thrilled. I mean for everyone sitting in the dis at this moment this is the opportunity to uh engage with a community which you are always asking to do to put this on the ballot and put forth for their vote which I can imagine you're very excited about and the opportunity to receive funds to further the safety and the education of the community that
120you were elected to support. So I've got to imagine you're thrilled for this. Uh I won't go back and repeat what the rest of uh the community members have said. So instead I will offer this. Um the true north recommendation at the end of the presentation was uh for an independent campaign. So as a parent in the community and I'm sure it'll very you'll very quickly see a representation behind me. Um as a parent you can rely on us to do that work. we will be your independent campaign to make this happen. So, I just want to offer that up to you and say congratulations and we're very excited. Thank you. Next, Ketta Brown, Erin Bryman, Lesie Elliot, and then Michelle Hyper. You guys have a singular opportunity here. It's an extension. I worked really
121hard when I was young and cute in 2001 to to to pass what what what's what's expiring. Don't don't miss this opportunity. It's easy. And to Shaheen's point, you want transparency, you want community involvement, put it on the ballot. There you have it. Transparency and community. Everyone gets to speak. Thanks. Hi Lesie Elliot. Uh Dr. McCclar has told us that we have strong numbers and that in his experience only one extension bond he's worked on has ever failed and that was because of the board. It's difficult to comprehend why any board would refuse to support a bond designed to continue the work of creating a worldclass school system. I cannot imagine any previous Laguna Beach school board failing to wholeheartedly champion this effect, this effort. This current majority board, however, has not demonstrated that its
122priorities align with what's best for students. I sincerely hope that we don't become Dr. McClar's second district to lose a bond due to the board. If we do, that outcome will be your legacy. Please just get it on your next whatever makes sense for the agenda to make the action item. You just have to get it on the ballot and let the community decide. So, please don't do anything like Leslie just said. Let's not be that that rare statistic of not getting the ballot. Not getting on the ballot. Please, I'm going to appeal to your selfish side, current board majority. Please have a positive legacy. This is the perfect opportunity for you to have a positive legacy just like the last 20 years have been for your kids, my kids, and any future kids. This
123is a perfect opportunity for you to have that in your back pocket to leave your tenure as board members as being part of the solution and and getting this um on the ballot and then just let the community decide. But it's an integral role that you have. Please don't impede that. I very much appreciate True North. Um it's very clear that it would be really silly to not move forward with this. I'm just appealing to your selfish sides and a positive legacy. Thank you. >> We have more speakers. >> I'm so grateful to be at this meeting because I didn't even realize this was on. And my name is Michelle Hyberg. I'm also a certified fundraising executive and this is a nobrainer. This doesn't even take a second thought. This is for the future of
124our community, for our grandkids and our great grandkids. And you must feel so blessed to represent this community and to have this rich opportunity to help our community, our ohana. So, thank you so much for moving this forward and I'm so grateful for all the comments that came before me which were planned and intelligent and thank you again. >> Thank you. That's all on this item. >> Did we get everyone? I just want to make sure we haven't missed anyone that maybe forgot a card. Perfect. No problem. >> Okay. Hi, I'm Kathy back again. Um, I love the data. Marketing geek. Love the marketing. I'm very into the data. I think it was very um clear on the direction. I mean, he's he's he's made it really clear on the direction from the community um
125on the direction the board is going to go in. I'm a little concerned, President Morgan, just on some of your questions you're asking um that are giving me pause. I will just say, you know, it's it's 20 years of money. None of us in this room have a crystal ball to know what the needs of the district are going to be. I also heard you mentioned shrinking shrinking enrollment. That that's a national issue. You know, there was just a report released. We had 7 3/4 of a million fewer babies born last year than 20 years ago. So, we have less children and declining enrollment nationally. declining enrollment in our in our district doesn't change the fact that we still need facilities for our children. One thing I've seen as a soccer parent traveling throughout Orange
126County, I I I've lived in this bubble I think for almost for almost 15 years. And when I get out there, I am shocked at the beauty of some of the other facilities in communities that don't have nearly the um the the the ranking that we have. And my own children have experienced some of the issues with facilities and leaks and rodents and they need improvement and the facilities will only continue to decline further and need just just as our homes need improvement, right? Like all of us with homes here, it's like every 30 years you need a roof. It's the same thing here. They need we we need a long-term fund to help keep these facilities in great shape regardless of the declining enrollment, right? That that just doesn't change that we still need
127great facilities for our children to learn in and we need to be able to keep up with technology or the robotics or what have you and providing the classrooms that can that can house those things. Um, I think it was mentioned we're already paying the $253 um, a year. It's it's $20 a month is what it amounts to to keep this rolling. And I just want to respectfully ask each of you to support this um, support putting the bond measure on the ballot in November and letting the commu the community answer. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. Thank you. One last call for any speakers on this item. Okay, seeing none, we're going to move back to um board discussion. If there's any further comments or discussion by the board, um I'd
128welcome it at this time. We'll go in the same order. Um starting with member Kelly. >> Thank you, President Morgan. You're always so thoughtful. I'm all for this. Um, I was at a meeting last night where I was on the uh the panel which had nothing to do with the bond, but I had to talk about the bond because this is going to be my last harrah because I I leave in December and hopefully we'll have a ballot voted by that time and I can rest for the next 20 years and I'll be dead though. But, you know, I I know that you and your children will be here. But the point and one point I made that uh I didn't hear tonight from any of you. It has to do with the housing values.
129Schools have an awful lot to do with the values of housing and who comes into a community. And if you don't pass the bond, you're going to have dilapidated buildings and dilapidated buildings are eyes and eyes do not sell houses. And so think of it that way that this is this is a small investment. and someone said $20 a month as far as to make sure that the values of your homes continues to rise. Thank you. >> Thank you, Member Kelly. Member Hills, any further comment or discussion? >> Yeah, I uh would like to say first of all that I really appreciated the comments that were made by members of the public tonight. it uh it was uh I listened very carefully and I uh heard what you all were saying and I think it
130was pretty compelling to me. I um I think uh you know for me this kind of brings back some memories. I I um I got in trouble with the couple city council people and when we did the bond in 1969 and students at the high school campaigned for it and um and uh um we were very involved in working very closely with the the school board and the superintendent um in going around through the neighborhoods uh getting support for the the bond that was proposed. Some people felt that the students should not be involved in that and uh they made quite a issue of it. But we got the bond passed in uh in ' 69 I think it was 68 69 and um and uh so this brought back some memories of that. Also,
131um I supported the 2001 bond and um I think that um the resources that were generated from that have been put to pretty good use. I know it's not question time, but Ryan, I just wanted to ask you, um what's the price tag on the fix for the gym at Thirstston? >> Yeah. Ryan, can you come to the mic so all our thousands of listeners at home can hear what you have to say? >> Sorry about that. >> Um, sorry. I was just >> It is listed in the 10-year facility master plan that estimate. I don't pop my head, but I think two >> it slipped my It Sorry, I just >> I >> All I'm going to say is >> 99.999% of the time you have the number right off the top of your
132head. So, I'm sorry for asking that one. one do because you do you do a fantastic job >> but the the um the thanks sorry Ryan but the point is um I think that uh the the uh the one question I would ask is or think about is that um we got to make sure that we don't have an echo effect where we're listening to ourselves and not thinking about some of the issues that were raised um uh that might be raised by people outside of what we would refer to as the school community and um that we don't get caught um uh with uh opposition that we don't anticipate. But um overall, I have to say that um the uh prospect that uh this is something that the community should decide is a pretty
133compelling one. And so I'm uh I just want to everybody that came tonight and spoke and for um making very effective uh presentations including Kelly Osborne who typically does a very good job of advocacy. Uh but everybody that spoke I thought uh gave us a lot to think about and to consider. >> Thank you. Um before I go to that side, uh the according to the 2023 facilities master plan project list and cost estimate, the uh TMS gym expansion and seismic upgrade is projected to be 2.7 million. Member uh Kirk Perry, >> should we ask Ivy first? My paperwork. Go ahead, Ivy. >> What do you think about the bond? >> Well, I think that Sorry, I'm a little nervous. I don't have my counterpart today, so bear with me. Um, I think the bond
134is a great idea. I think that, you know, it's valuable funding that um helps the schools and I think that I mean, I just don't see why we would not have it, if that makes sense. Because I mean, it's the same amount of taxes to my understanding. It's just it means that the funding goes to the school and that we keep with the system that we've been doing. And I think that the system works great, so why change it? But yeah, that's just my >> Thank you, >> Clerk Perry. My apologies. Thank you. Sorry about that. >> I'm excited that the bond uh that the bond study came out so well and excited to take it to the people and I am also so pleased with everyone who came up. I think you can sell
135it to the people who might be on the fence. Thank you. Um, Dr. Monteski, >> um, I'll just add my, uh, very strong support for this. I mean, schooling is a public asset for in terms of what we do for our students and how they return, you know, what what that means for our larger society, but also for everyone in town, whether they have students in the school or not. Um, it is, you know, our school outcomes are a public asset. we should do whatever we can to cultivate that and support it. So, I'm strongly in favor of putting this on the ballot. >> Thank you. Um Okay. Um I have just very few comments left. Um I I I also am very grateful for um all of the comments and the perspective that was
136brought forward. Um I absolutely will own everything that everybody has commented that I have said in the past. Um I have four students in the that graduated through this school. So, I am also very grateful for the 2001 bond and what it provided for my students. I had wished it provided us a pool sooner because I had a swimmer that left in at nine years old to go swim somewhere else because he wanted to get better and couldn't do it here. So, um I am very familiar with the needs that we have in our community and some of them that are long-standing, some of them that are new, um and the fact that that will be continuing. So, I ask a lot of questions because that's part of my nature, but it's also um I
137believe my responsibility to make sure that we've looked at something from all angles. Um, as I said when we started, I'm not indicating my support or opposition to a to a bond. That's not my role right now. My role is to ask questions and to make sure that we have all of the information going forward. So, I just want to make sure I clarify that. Um, thank you so much for your presentation. I think it was great. It was wonderful. Like I said, I read the whole thing um and cross referenced everything. So, I appreciate it and it made a lot of sense to me and that was great. Um and I appreciate everyone's comments. So at this time this is not an action item. Uh this was an information item and um we can
138um move on to the next the next agenda topic. Um I think that's an agenda question for uh I think there's the next I don't know what what what are the next steps. That's a great question. >> Thank you. Um I'll hand things over to Mano to walk you through what the process looks like between now and when you need to make a decision to put this on the ballot for the fall. Thank you, Superintendent. Uh, good evening, president of the board and the board members. First and foremost, I want to clarify a couple of things that came up. Uh, Dr. Mccclarney is from the two true north research who is our survey consultant. Next to him, the gentleman that's sitting is Adam Bower. He's our financial analyst. I mean, I not financial analyst, financial
139adviser, fiscal adviser. So, once Dr. McLaren uh kind of shares this. It's where the fiscal adviser comes in and takes over. That's the handshake. So between now and I think the deadline is sometime by August 9th or August 7th. I'm not sure of the date. The board has to put a resolution forward if they want to go ahead and put it on the ballot. So the board has to pass a resolution. So we have some time between now and uh July. I think there are some scheduled board meeting in July um that we want to target if the board wants to put it on the ballot between now and then what needs to happen is we are working on the facility master plan ad hoc facility master committee because first and foremost before we put
140a ballot measure we need to know what our needs are right if there are truly no needs for our facilities there there is no point in putting a bond measure um in the place. So we are currently working on our facility master plan. Uh the facility master committee which is a subcommittee of community members, staff, board, couple of board members and our students will decide as to what should be on the facility master commit plan. The facility master plan thinks of it's a big circle. uh most potentially or probably the facility master plan list when we put numbers on those items it will exceed what our bonding capacity are and that's what Dr. Melanie says is typically the needs for the facility master plan I mean my estimate will be to the north of 100
141to 120 million then it'll come to the board to decide as to which of the facility master plan item should be on the bond project list. So that's a difficult decision. The board has to kind of cherrypick items from the facility master plan. Also, we'll have the priorities identified in the facility master plan from the committee. So, the board will identify those. We'll work with a campaign consultant with Adam from uh FieldBen Rollup to find out that 75 wording 75 words to craft that and figure out what would be the language of the ballot measure should the board decide to put it on the ballot. I'll have Adam come up and uh say anything that I have missed between >> can can you push the button? Thanks. >> There's one point one point I want
142to clarify this this evening. When we talk about home prices, I think all the people that talked about prices were probably accurate with the home price. But because of Prop 13, the taxable value of a home is much lower than what you see on Zillow or Red Fin. The median assessed value for a home in this district's boundary is1,317,876. That translates into $117 a year. I did not divide that by 12, but that gives you a much different number about half of 10 bucks a month rather than um the numbers that we quoted. So I want to make sure we the the cost is much lower than we originally projected. But getting that communication consultant on board, that's a non-advocacy role to help communicate need and talk about some of these exact items that were
143brought up this evening and the one that I just um talked about with the tax rates here. But that would be something I believe um would be up for staff to consider in the next few weeks is what firm to um to hire there and we can help with that bring that firm on board and that firm would help not only draft that resolution with legal counsel our firm but then eventually get it to the point where you have a measure to call um and then from there you enter a campaign and you've already heard a bit about that process. Thank you Adam and uh thanks for clarifying the assessed value and I think the gentleman that spoke did say that a new house would be about 2.9 million. I just want to make sure
144and if a new house is if a person is buying that house that cost will be the person will be paying 253 million in two days. That's the assessed value and the market value when you buy a new house as opposed to the assessed value. >> Not not million. >> $253. >> That's right. >> Yeah, we can't put that on the ballot. 253 million. That won't work, >> right? Um thank you. So that's our next step going forward. >> Okay. Thank you. And I think there was one more comment um from Dr. Maleski >> and then we'll move on. >> Yeah. So, um, I want to push back a little bit on the idea that we might wait till July to do anything about this. The issue for me is that I know that the
145PTAs have met about this and there are people in the PTA who really would like to think about how to be active in terms of parent groups toward promoting the bond. Um I don't know whether other organizations in town um are interested in participating but we had um parents stand up and say we want to help and if you wait till July then you don't really have an opportunity to draw on resources in terms of parent time in town because it's July and then people a large percentage of voters in Lagouna Beach submit their ballots right after they receive them in October. So, um, that is the most popular way to vote here. So, I would urge us to get this on the ballot much earlier. >> That's a good point. I know we do
146have a the facilities is >> four four or five people here in the room that are >> Sure. >> I I support Joan's view. Um, I think that we could do this in parallel process. facility masters plan can be going on at the same time that we're getting our consultants and lining up um our arguments as far as for the um the bond. Um I think you heard Manos say that he thinks it's over a million dollars uh of upgrades that our our facilities need. I hope we are only going to ask for 80 because the message I've been giving to people it's not going to cost you another cent to your tax bill. We're just going after 80. We're just continuing what we have. Uh so I'm hoping that we can start and go
147forward. >> Okay. Howard. >> Yeah. Manosha. I was just going to thank you for your comments and for uh the additional information we got. The reason I was asking about the gym at Thirsten is because thinking in terms of what kind of list you would put together, um if we go forward with this and we present it, um uh projects like the gym at Thirstston are ones that I think are um are very very attractive items to include uh on a list like that of of what you would do with the money. Now, it may be that we have other money to do that. So, we, you know, it won't be on the list, but I just wanted to say that's why I was asking about it because that the thirst and gym thing drives
148me crazy and I think a lot of people would like to see that get fixed. Um but um I also um I also just wanted to say that uh uh um the uh the process uh I agree with I agree with what's being said that um you know what for example one of the things that really concerns me is the situation at top of the world school. I think that's another thing that we should look at for a list if we're going to try to change the ma uh the facilities master plan uh so that it it um informs the public of why the needed um uh is a good example of another thing that we could add to that list. So, I appreciated your comments and and I agree that um there's no reason
149to delay. If we're going to go forward with this, we should get on with it. >> Thank you, Howard. Okay, I'm going to close comments on this item forward. I want everyone for your input and thank you um to um True North. We did put you first on the agenda ahead of a continuation item at your request and so I'm glad that we could accommodate that. So, thank you very much. Okay, moving on to item uh seven. We have the continuation of the discussion of the LBUSD oh communications plan which was tabled during the March 26, 2026 board meeting. And it's brought back for board questions, public comment, and then board discussion. Um before we start with that um with the board questions I because we have a new audio system I just want to
150ask if everyone is noticing a difference. Can you hear better? Can you hear better? >> It's the same. Just as clear as before out there. Well, there's speakers out there so that does make more sense. I think it was more up here that was the issue. So I know I can hear better. So that's good. Yeah, there's a new speaker. So perfect. I can I I can hear a lot better. >> Good. Okay. Terrific. >> By the way, um I went to an aiologist and I had my ears tested and my hearing is excellent. And um uh but I also will say that last week or the last meeting we had um uh I could I could not hear what Sherry was saying when her head was turned in that direction even though I was
151four feet from her. Thank you. I really think that it's great that we put in a new audio system. >> Perfect. And we'll have the uh boardroom done soon. So, okay. So, moving on. So, we're going to move to um the communications presentation that was made. Uh we were starting on board questions when we had to table the item. Um Howard, I believe at that time you had the floor. Uh but I would like to um since we're kind of restarting this and we didn't really get very far in that, I would like to start with board questions on the communications plan. >> No, we were on question. No, we're wrong questions. >> Public comments today, right? >> Yes, it's in the agenda. It's on the agenda. >> Oh, okay. I misunderstood. >> Yeah. Um,
152okay. So, I'm going to start with um I'll start this direction. It's not you. I get to um Ivy, do you have any questions um regarding the communications plan? >> Um I do not. Uh no. >> Okay. Um, member Perry, clerk Perry, >> I just had a question about some different groups that have wanted things communicated um, and it didn't come through our communications plan. For example, on the arts committee, there are a lot of things going on that they wanted the public to know about and it's not in our communication plan. The transportation um committee also spoke about uh they wanted information out there about changing bus routes and things like that and those weren't easily communicated. So, if there's a way we can get those things in there, that would be great. Uh
153thank you clerk Perry. I'll address those questions. As you mentioned, you've got uh two ad hoc committees, one for transportation and one for um arts that are operating right now. We have interim recommendations out of both of them that uh I look forward to presenting to the board uh at an upcoming meeting. Uh both of them included um additions for the future communication plan. Um, I've made our communications director and a Karen aware of those. Uh, and we're integrating them into the revised plan. >> Do you have any questions? >> Um, I raised all of my questions in a board report at a previous meeting about the January 20th communication uh plan update. Um, but I have no questions about uh Ana Karen Urano's report which I thought was terrific. >> Member Kelly. Member Kelly,
154do you have any questions? >> Um, what I um noticed uh when we had the presentation that uh we we got last time is that uh I thought that the staff did a really good job of sort of repackaging the communications plan um that existed in early 2025. Uh but uh even though it was repackaged in I think a very u uh a very you know competent and and wellthoughtout way in the end it didn't really uh it's it's the same communications plan. Um and uh so I have I have a lot of questions about it. Um, one thing I wanted to do in asking the questions is maybe start from the standpoint that, you know, one of the issues is not that we need to change bylaws or that we need to change the
155plan. Uh, but it's really we need to follow our bylaws and and follow our plan. And for example, as I said at the at the end of the last meeting when we were talking about this, uh there's really not a complete discussion of um what the responsibilities are and the roles of uh the district leadership. Uh for example, >> point of order. These are for questions. What's that? >> Let's ask questions and then we'll have public comment and then we'll get into discussion. >> I I understand that. Um, I'd like to know, um, I'd like to know where the role, you know, this this is another example of where there are shared responsibilities and shared powers for the superintendent and the board president where the board has delegated to the board president and the bylaws
156um, a role in communications that's not really reflected in the plan. So I guess my question would be why are we still in a situation where the role of the board president as set forth in bylaw 9121 and in board policy 1112 um it's not really reflected in this in this plan. And so, um, I can just leave it at that and leave it as a question, uh, and get an answer or I can cite the specific provisions of the bylaws and board policies that aren't being implemented, but so that it doesn't appear to be a speech and is a question. I would just like to ask uh staff to explain how they see collaboration going between the president and the superintendent on public communications. >> Thank you, Member Hills. I'll be happy to answer
157that question. You've rightly touched on there are some shared powers when it comes to communication. Some have been delegated to the superintendent or designate for communications. Those are mostly contained in board policy 1100. Um there are other policies that delegate some of those authorities to the board president. 9121 and 9010 for example uh are examples of that. Um when it comes to um working with the board president um that mostly comes from the authority in 9121 that indicates that um board president and the superintendent are to work in conjunction when it comes to board related communications um both with President Morgan and with President Perry. I do that on a regular basis when it comes to communicating with the board um or communicating on behalf of the board. uh anything that um is communicated out
158as board action or touching on the board involves them in a co-development process um around the creation of those communications. So that's how we do that. Um, in addition, uh, board board bylaw 9010, uh, governs board statements on board's positions and the communications program operates board under board policy 1100, which delegates the responsibility of communication to the superintendent for district related communications. The most tangible example of how we have worked in conjunction with the board president is the January 20th memo that's been mentioned a couple of times. uh new president was uh came on in December of last year. President Morgan had some priorities around board communications that she elevated to me. I turned those into uh an action plan and those are being implemented right now. We have outcome metrics on all of those.
159All of that's also becoming part of the revised board, revised communication plan under board policy 1100 that's being developed right now and that we'll if uh the board is interested in hearing about it, we're happy to bring that back to you and present it to you. But that's the most direct answer to your question. I work regularly with the board president under the authority granted to her under board bylaw 9121. And the most tangible example of that is the January 20 memo that outlines the steps that we're taking and the outcomes that we're we've achieved. You heard about last time. So in um board policy 1121 it says um spokespersons designated to speak for the media to the media on behalf of the district include board president named first and then the superintendent and 9121
160say that um says that in conjunction with the superintendent or designate um the president is repres represents the district as the board's spokesperson in communications with the media. Then it says that the board president leads the board's advocacy efforts to build support within the local community and at the state and national levels. Um, so I think that it's pretty clear that um the the bylaws give the board president uh an independent role in communications as well as one that's in conjunction with the superintendent. And the word conjunction is an interesting word because it's not uh in collaboration, it's not in cooperation, it's not in coordination. Um the word conjunction sort of means sort of at the same time or you know uh in a joint in either in a joint uh activity or uh but
161the bylaws also allow and delegate a separate role for the board president. So my question goes to the issue of uh when everybody's getting along fine and everything's going along fine. Um you know the way you describe what's happened in the last year or so um I think there have been some situations where there was not um uh agreement and and a collaborative process that would have been more wholesome. And um so the question is what mechanisms when you have independent delegations which I think you have here um you can talk about what the scope of those are but the fact is you have independent delegations to the board president and the superintendent which is good I think it's great but the question is what mechanisms for collaboration are there and what mechanisms are there
162for when there is a disagreement about something. You know, one thing that we don't want to do is have our communication system be a two-headed monster where the superintendent's going off in this direction making one set of statements and the board president is going off totally within her author his or her authority um and making a separate statement and that would be a so you know one of the things I've noticed in the communications we've gotten from the communications department is they say well what's important question. >> What's I'm asking a question. It's a complex question. It's a compound question. Um uh now I broke my train of thought. So, thank you. So, um the point is Oh, oh, yeah. The the the the answers we've gotten is that um we want um the district
163to speak with one voice. We want a coherent um message going forward. And that's in um 9010 that you referred to. that's emphasized very much in that over in 9121 and and uh and um 1112 it's not it's not that way it's it's they are separate uh delegations so the question is do we need I now will ask my question do we need something more in terms of a mechanism for um collaboration and I'll just give you an example it in the federal ederal at the federal level, the state level, county level, city level. Um it's a common practice that when there are two officials that share responsibilities that there be a category of communications identified in which there would be mutual agreement about um what would be communicated. And that doesn't relate to all
164communications, but you can identify a class of communications where there would be a situation where you would have an initiing process so that whatever happens that there would be a record of the fact that there was a collaborative decision on those in that particular area of communications. uh that would allow us to ensure the board to asssure that there would be a unified message going out and you couldn't have a situation where the superintendent and the board president are going in different directions. >> Uh thank you. That is a complex question. Uh I'll do my best to get to the components of it. Um I think you are right that uh the superintendent and the board president have distinct and shared roles. Uh when it comes to board policy 1100, the board has delegated um
165responsibility around district communications to the superintendent and creating a communication plan and ensuring that messages are going out to families and community uh and that uh there are opportunities for two-way uh communication as evidenced through our LCAP process that we're running right now. And that delegation and uh author providing that authority to your CEO is important. Uh it's important that I have the ability to be responsive to community questions, community needs, to proactively communicate uh with the community on matters related to our school district. At the same time, there are uh elements that the board president needs to speak on behalf of uh as a representative of the board. Um the board president speaks for the board and you speak as individuals. Um I I I do not uh advise or counsel any of you
166on what you should and shouldn't say. Uh your individuals, your individual board members, your elected officials. So um I don't I don't cross into that lane uh and try to direct what any of you or the board president uh says. U there are there are significant times when we work together exactly in the configuration that you talked about. There's a joint process. Um, President Morgan and I do that through we established a memo for example on how we do it's a wrap every uh every we'll start it tonight and into tomorrow. So we work through a process on that around the timelines on when that happens what is included in it um what is not included in it what the scope of it is agreements around when we will get things to her when she
167will get things back to us and how that occurs and there's mutual and joint sign off in that process. So what you talked about is in effect happening. I think in terms of thinking of the expansion of that um I would be uh cautious that we don't create an overly cumbersome bureaucratic system where it becomes effectively impossible for either side to communicate and we have to get sign off on everything that um that is attempted to be uh communicated. I I don't would not advise u from a policy standpoint amending something where effectively if you create a co-s superintendent for communication um I I don't think that's wise and I think if we look at the policies that we have they outline the structure that you talked about there are policy there are there are
168communication authorities that are delegated to the superintendent there are some that are delegated to the board chair there are some that are shared um follow up on that um I think uh that I'm aware of situations where there have been statements that um have created um concern uh that have gone out, communications that have gone out. And so um I think that your point about not becoming overly bureaucratic is a good one. But I also would be concerned about being inadequately bureaucratic. So you don't have a record of that. For example, I think the board um should be concerned about wanting to make sure that if a statement is made by the superintendent or by the board uh president that there would be enough of a record of Now again, I'm talking about a certain
169category of communications. There's a there's broad communications that go out from our communications office that you wouldn't that you that that are working just fine right now and you don't need to have necessarily more collaboration or it's a there's it's possible to have collaboration if you want it. But um there also are categories of communications that have broad policy uh and community uh um relations uh implications. And so the question would be, you know, when something goes out, you want to be in a situation where the board can back up the superintendent and back up the president and say, "Yeah, that that's what was said and that's what the was documented properly." and um and the board backs up. Uh that's one point. Um uh the other point is I'll just tell you we had
170a we've had a situation where you've had a communication go out from the board president and then you've had a communication go out from the district that was uh they were they were incompatible. They were in conflict and it had very very significant consequences. Uh so you had a situation where the press got a notification that basically countermanded the communication from the president and uh we also have a situation where I remember member Milchowski um said uh in one of her um little manifestos that she reads she said if the superintendent and the president agree to um a communication >> and they don't involve the communication staff then the public should not trust that communication from the president and the the board president. So I just my question is do you think that we should
171be considering possibly coming up with collaborating and in a in a a dial in a dialogue come up with um some additional procedures so that you can document the collaboration so that you can then stand by with what the communication was if you understand what I'm saying >> in those areas where I collaborate with board presidents both with President Perry and with President Morgan that collaboration happens over email. It is documented. Um, and there are we time stamp when we receive things and we are sure when we send things out we're meeting the deadlines and we're getting things out on time. >> And I >> so that that that process is documented. I think more directly to your point, if the board wishes to direct the superintendent on how and when and if I should
172communicate, you should do that through your policies. uh and you should do it or you should do it by the board making a motion and taking action collectively. I I agree >> when you have um it it is a significant matter that um if you have the board president you have you have delegated some communication authority to that person um but is that is still one board member and so I think it's important if the board wishes to direct the superintendent on communication uh you do that collectively through your policies or you do it collectively through a board action and a public vote. >> Yeah. Well, just let me say thank you for those answers. I don't have any other questions, but I um agree with your assessment. I think I think when you're doing
173the right thing collaboratively um as you said you with both President Perry and with President Morgan, you do collaborate with emails and whatnot. The the issue I would have the question I would have is, you know, can you rely on that? Can you count on that being required as opposed to it's just a best practice? And sometimes you have to take those best practices and actually reduce them to something in the bylaws. Uh and so that's exactly what you're saying. It's a discussion the board should have and I think this discussion will help inform that discussion by the board. >> Thank you Howard. Um member Dr. Kelly. >> Thank you President Morgan. Superintendent class answered all my questions excellently. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, I got to this side, right? Questions we asked. Okay.
174Um, so I have a couple and I apologize. I have um again I went through the whole per the whole packet and made all my notes and left them all at home. So I apologize. I'm scrambling here to try and pull those out of my head of what my questions were. Um so one of my first questions is um how in in our um so well first of all I noticed that the last reviewed was August 19th, 2021 and we did try and review this in 2025. So, I'm wondering if that needs to be updated or not because it did come forward as an agenda item in January. Um, in an effort to have the same very kind of conversation a year ago, 2024, sorry. >> I'm sorry. Oh, >> what are you referring to?
175>> The policy last reviewed. So, I don't know if that needs >> policy >> 1100. Okay. >> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No, 1100 came forward in January of 2025 as a disc as an information item in an effort to have this kind of a conversation and ensure that we were aligned with our policies. So, do we need to update that to say that we reviewed it at that time or discussed it because nothing really came out of that conversation but a lot of heat. The board policy 1100 directs the superintendent to periodically review and update the communication plan. And so as you heard in the presentation last time, that's happening right now. and we are we can bring uh a revision for the communication plan incorporating all the matters that we've talked about u including the
176January 20 memo including the gray matters report um including the feedback from the LCAP um and on and the feedback that we gathered through the 100 day listening tour and those efforts um we are weaving that all together in addition to the conversation and discussion that we're having tonight with the board we for preparing that communication plan and can bring that back to you um later this year >> school year. >> Can I get a clarification on your question? >> Did you ask whether or not the board approves the communication plan? >> No, I did not. We have not um >> the board does not >> brought a communication plan to approve. >> The board does not approve the communication plan. >> Yeah. I Well, just say under the bylaw right now, you're correct. It
177says, but it's interesting. It's kind of tricky. What it says is that >> discussion. Can I finish my question? >> Okay. Yeah. Sorry. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and you're saying um Jonathan, you're saying that it does not the board does not need to approve a communication plan. Okay. Thank you. Um so then the questions that I have is um we have several policies that talk about um consistent messaging whether it's um the board um whether they agree or disagree. Um once a decision is made then the board needs to re represent that decision and uphold that decision in our policies. Um we also have um messaging that um the desired messaging would be for that it to be consistent whatever that message is whether it's um I think I asked a question because there
178was something stated last night that we did a 20% budget cut across the board on all schools. I don't think that's true but um it's a rumor um but I know man had interest mentioned that. So I think that brings my question of how do we uphold our policies to ensure that we have consistent messaging whether it's district that's speaking staff that's speaking um or board members that are speaking so that the message that has been established as a board direction or a board vision or a board policy as well as actions such as budget cuts right which isn't I think I think the was one that said that which isn't true. So, how do we ensure that we have a consistent message across the board that's being implemented and executed on a regular basis?
179Whoever is speaking it, >> I think I understand what you're asking. Um, when it comes to you have several policies that speak to the board standing together, speaking with one voice once a decision is made and that is something that the board would be you'd have to hold yourselves to account for that. That's not something that I can do as superintendent. your independent elected officials. And so that's something that all of you would need to work on when it comes to communication about board actions and decisions. How we do that is the is through the in conjunction language that's in 9121 and how you and I have worked together to establish a process around how we communicate out when the board takes action that relates to what was the presentation presented to the board, what
180was agendaized, what was in the presentation, and then what was the board action. Um if anytime you as president and at the uh or at the direction of the rest of the board wish to make a statement, we would support you uh in in doing that. President Perry and I did that some when she was uh when she was president. So that's how we would support the board communicating out its actions and how we do it now. >> Right. So I think but the question I think is how do we uphold a consistent message because there is a lot of I think one of the biggest problems that that I see um that comes to my attention regularly is that there's a lot of inconsistencies in the message and there's a lot of um um
181to um Manoja's point rumors of things that have been done that haven't been done um or information that's not really actually accurate but it's a spin on what's accurate. So how do we ensure that that polic that the communications is consistent? I mean, I appreciate that we should regulate ourselves, but we have policy. And so, I think a question I've asked um um Mr. Pearl quite a bit is if we have policies, ED, code, and bylaws, they're there for a reason. And so if we're supposed to be upholding them, why is it so difficult to uphold them and enforce them if we're not why is it so difficult? Excuse me. Why is it so difficult to enforce and to uphold? If I'll start just generally related um to the question on unified messaging and I'll
182speak to it from like a strategic communication standpoint when it refers um when an organization is referring to unified messaging and I touched on that a little bit in how we identify priorities um for objectives and key messages and goals related to our communications. um the the strategic approach to that is to center your communications on those goals, objectives, vision that the board and um the organization have put together. So when we talk about just generally unified messaging um that is the approach is that you have a very clear set of goals priorities that the district is working toward and our communications efforts are centered around communicating not just that those goals are in place but the different actions that we take to reach those goals and if we have metrics associated to that. So
183that supports an organization just generally across the board on establishing shared and unified messaging. you've outlined a few different examples of what our organization specifically has gone through in the last year and some of the um differences or um competing perhaps messages that exist in the community. Um one it that's natural for a district uh or for an organization that's going through um either transition or is um exploring a change in priorities. um that period of establishing those and and the um approach that you take to develop that shared u mission and those goals are really essential. Um so you can see how that work begins prior to the communication efforts, the goal setting, the strategic planning that happens um similar to what you see play out with the LCAP. The feedback that we receive
184through the LCAP is centered around data that is directly tied to our goals, our visions and our outcomes. and the discussions that we have through that development process are centered around that and then we shift those into updating those. Um and so your your plan is consistent with the goals and the messaging continues and the organization is collectively um informed about what we're working toward. Now when there's changes um there's always Mr. Hills mentioned opportunities to consider our approaches or the systems that or the mechanisms that we have in place to make sure that whatever team um is approaching the communications is aligned. We have a saying in my world of public education communications that one um new board member creates a whole new team. So we don't uh we don't view it as I
185have four of the same and one came on you. My entire the the body one one change um constitutes an entire change in the team. We see that the most concrete example I can ever give is the Supreme Court. You see the the way that they switch or move um based on the new um individuals that come onto the court. The positioning shifts from middle to right to left. Um, and so the refinement of the communications plan that we're looking at for 2627 is actually is going to also touch on one clarifying and updating some key messages for the school district. Um, we've heard about the listening efforts that have taken place throughout the last year, the feedback that we've received from you guys, and that will shape the new communications plan, the key messages
186that are identified in that, and that creates a document or a um resource for us collectively as an organization to speak and share about the same objectives. There are also though um because we're humans um differences of opinion, differences of interpretation, differences of perspective, differences of lived experiences and that's always that's uh the most fun and challenging part of my job that um that I can um never ensure that I'm going to have a one mind, one voice um community. Those distinct voices are really important. And so I would say that what we've heard and some of the um uh different uh messages that we've heard in the community are reflective of the period of transition that we're going through and we've also surfaced a lot of priorities through that um process and we'll see
187those reflected in the updated communications plan. >> Thank you. Um the communications plan is actually what I was hoping um that we were going to see based on the January piece and u multiple conversations that we've had. That's with all um honesty that's what I thought we were getting was um what is our new plan um because we've had a lot of input including some of the committees that have talked about um um not that we need a better communications between the different groups and so I guess so my next question would be how do we shift so I noticed that the plan talks a lot about you know um the community encompasses multiple audience segments and so the plan is to speak to that audience but audience is a recipient of the information. Whereas
188stakeholders, community members, constituents are active members of a group and they can interchange, right? A stakeholder can be a constituent, a constituent can be a community member. Um, but they are all active participants in the process. And so when we when one of the concerns that I have with our current plan is that there's a lot of um language about speaking to an audience. And the where I think and it started back when this came forward in January 2025 was because there seemed to be a concern expressed from the community myself as being a community member as well um being in the communications world is that we were are we we speak about two-way engagement but we don't have um it doesn't seem like it's a clear unbiased path towards receiving community input or stakeholder
189or constituent input. So my question then is when we are doing surveys and seeking community input, what method of unbiased positioning are we putting out into the community to get that two-way communication back? Surveys sometimes if they're crafted, you know, we all know a survey can be crafted to get the answer that we want. But if we want true unbiased input, we need to have a true unbiased approach with how we gain that information. So what in the plan and I guess this is where I was hoping we had more qu we had more of a a plan of how we're going forward so that we could help ask questions that would help refine the the vision of what I think what we're all looking for out of the plan and it's going to be
190a little bit different for everyone but it helps formulate what that plan looks like. How are we how are we going going to approach that or shift that direction because there's a lot of um bi it seems questions are somewhat biased based on what I read right the survey um graduation had some bias to it if it didn't have different all of the different positions if we're looking for the pool and what the pool would need there could there we could have had different you know different perspectives that are considered so how are we shifting in that direction >> so I'll go back to the um expectation of reviewing an updated plan. This uh spring is um as you've heard from several of our presentation is when we're actively gathering that endofear feedback and it's
191not exclusive to feedback related to communications. It's also looking at our data related to our progress on district priorities, our progress um related to the metrics that measure our success in communications. Um >> how do we measure those? like especially if it's not like open rates and and digital that's I know that's accessible but how are we measuring our two-way communication with the community >> that was outlined in two of the slides that we presented I'll more succinctly say that we heard a presentation from Dr. McLaren earlier in which he presented some bond feasibility study findings and he um specifically called out the awareness in our community related to the quality of our public education. And then he went on to speak about how unusual it is to have that many of your um constituents
192um aware of the high quality of education. So I'd say that for me is a measure that um supports the efficacy of our efforts. Um two um you saw in those uh the data that I presented in that presentation the increase in participation related to the community that is that was also outlined in the efforts that we've taken to increase and broaden that reach to the community. Um so to close the um we've heard the feedback from you. This is the right now we're in that period of time of gathering feedback. the um survey just closed and the um end of year results are coming in. So our teams are collectively reviewing that data and identifying those priorities which help shape those key messages. Um I think your other question was related might need you
193to repeat. >> It was the um the other question I think it was back is is um how are we measuring that? I mean, I and I appreciate that the community is very aware of equality at our schools. We're also a very small district and a small community. So, I'm I'm tr I'm trusting that there's some level of um just chatter amongst the community of the, you know, when people are out and everything else. So, I guess I'm just curious that that was kind of the nature of that is how are we measuring the success of our own actions, not just the the word on the street. So um and then um the last one was kind of again in that planning session because in the in the arts community in the arts committee and
194the transportation committee one of the things that keeps coming up is um for example the transportation committee and this might be just for gathering feedback but um the changes that we're implementing or the this and we have a I think we have a report at the next meeting uh an interim report on transportation the arts is communicating the successes that we have done or that implement that we have changed like new software, new safety protocol, another camera, um a new upgraded system. Um so, but some of that is not what we're hearing was not communicated like the staff was not aware. So, how when we have new programs and we have new um initiatives and when we have new information like that, what is the timeline, the process of of incorporating this new requirements into
195our plan? How are you implementing that? >> I gaveorating that. I guess >> for this I gave my favorite answer that we usually get from our attorney friends is it depends. Um when we're looking at um for example the feedback that you mentioned from the committees, it's um and going back actually to unified messaging, it's really important for for me to allow that process to play out in its completion and that process will play out when that committee comes before you as a body to present those findings and those recommendations. That's also why the timeline of updating this plan is really important. We're we need those recommendations to come before the board formally so that we can accept those as uh feedback as an administration implement them into the communications plan. So I'm aware that
196those discussions are happening. I'm anticipating and planning for them though I'm waiting for the formal process because that helps in turn support that unified messaging that you're speaking about. If we go ahead and go before the board has formally received those recommendations and given any direction to staff, then we're circumventing the processes of the board. >> Right. So that's related to board communication type issues because we have a lot of things that happen internally that do get updated and sent out right away. So is it a different process then internally versus external forces that come into the plan? >> Yeah. And so for that you um we're a um public education. So we have a natural bureaucratic um structure and so we have um a process of connecting as an organization that begins um at
197the highest level with an executive cabinet team that meets weekly. Um we have a a cabinet team that also meets weekly. We have a site leadership team that meets. And so um again going back to processes and we're all humans and so there's imperfect situations, right? someone hears something, it's a special interest topic to them. So, they're going to share it with their friend. And to your point, in a small community that becomes really difficult to manage. I I I'm personally very proud of the systems that we have in place to maintain um a sort of structured approach to that though it's like anything human not perfect and fallible. But, um as we're making changes or decisions as an organization, those decisions are trickled down through those processes. One of the changes that we highlighted
198in the board presentation and that is an outcome of the feedback that we've received from you is the Surfside internal staff newsletter. That one had been um on pause for about a year um during this transition. We've reinstated it. That helps support carry that communication from our leadership teams to our broader school community. Though also at our school sites, there is internal communications that are happening. Our principles have weekly um meetings with their school site staff and there's department meetings that take place. There's different committees on each of the school sites that are discussing and having conversations related to those changes. So it it happens all throughout the process, but if if we're talking major decisions um as an organization, it's that kind of top down approach that moves through our leadership structure. >> Thank
199you. I don't think I have any questions at the any more questions at this time that I can think of what they might have been. But anyway, um so let's move on to do we have any other questions? Okay, let's move to uh public comment. >> Sure. Um Ka Brown just >> want to um say that Anna Karen's presentation from last board meeting was so informational and consequential. It it it speaks to how well it's working. I mean, the data, everything. Um, and so I guess I just kind of want to say, Howard, what you really want is for your paid newspaper manifesto to become the um official LBUSD communications. Thanks, Are there any other com questions, public comments? >> Okay, uh discussion from the board. >> I thought we did a lot of discussions
200during the questions period. >> That's true. Thank you so much. Member Hills, last chance. Final comments, questions or final comments. Uh discussion. >> We had questions. Now it's discussion or comments. >> Well, I think we have a problem here when we say what is the district and when we talk about one of the questions I had originally was what do you mean? What do we mean when we say the district? we speak in the voice of the district. And um one of the concerns I had was that the messaging and the narrative coming out of the our communications office and out of the superintendent's office um as what as it was presented in um on uh January 23rd of last year was that um the board was an audience for the district and the board
201is not an audience of the district. And the public information officer at that time and then again in our last meeting um uh availed herself of the opportunity to say that that uh perhaps there was a better understanding of the use of the word audience. But I actually understood the use of the word audience very very well. And the board is not an audience. The communications office is an instrumentality of the board. And if you were to try to define what the district is, um the district is the board and the district is what the board and to whom the board delegates authority. And u so I think there's been a real misunderstanding for a period of years about what we mean when we say the district. And uh I also would just comment that
202um I think we need to work on that. Um, I also would comment that, you know, there uh was an incident occurred where the local papers reported a statement that they received from the district and um and uh the statement that was received from the district was not accurate and it had a very very material impact. on significant matters of the district and I think we need to think about how to make sure that never happens again. >> Thank you, Howard. Um, member Malchesky, Dr. Maleski. >> So, um, I think that's a bit of a false narrative. I believe um, from a year ago when you first raised that concern, Howard, that the information that went to the press came from you. So, I'd really like to look into that more because I think there
203are some false claims being made here. I also um want to note the humorous irony of referring to my talks as manifestos, but um I want to say that one of those talks was about the January 20th memo. And I'm not going to repeat it all here, but uh I think um Anna Karen's communication plan is fantastic and she does a terrific job with this. The January 20th memo reenters what the communication office does around the board. And I went into this at length on my um board report on uh March 9th. Quite frankly, I don't love doing the longboard reports, but the truth is there's all kinds of stuff happening behind the scenes that I think um is important for people to know about. This was one of those where we had a new
204direction for the communication office developed and put into place by one board member. President or not, you can't act on behalf of the board. So, I raised my concerns about that. It was called communication plan immediate implementation and it changed a lot of the focus of the work to be more board focused and I will reiterate here board members come and go. We have a bond me measure coming up. We have great things happening in our classrooms. The people in the community who need to understand our school district need to see that what we do doesn't matter. Our me our meetings should be boring. we should get work done and the sign of a good board is that work is getting done and our schools are functioning and there's not all the dysfunction. So I
205um expressed my strong concerns about the process for developing that new communication plan and the um unnecessary focus on the board itself rather than the people in the district who are doing the work. Um and I don't know if I'm done. I and I'll save other things for another time. >> Thank you. Um Perry, did you have any further? Okay. I would actually like to ask a question. Um or not ask a question, but I'd like to make a com Let me make a comment. So um to the point about um board reports um my understanding of board reports has always been that board reports are for what we are doing as a board for the students in the com for the students things that we've attended um and those kind of contributions. they're not
206necessarily for um bringing forward ideas that maybe aren't being discussed that evening or topics like that. Um I would I know I'd like to defer to um our attorney for some of the guidelines of what some of those things are because I think um how we communicate as a board is important. How we use this meeting is important. Um and I think also I would love to know what um a third party's perspective is on the role of the communications as far as how's the board is related because I agree I think it's really important what we do in that that we highlight what's happening in our classrooms and everything else. However, the board has a specific role and I think one of my concerns with our communications plan and some of the perceptions that
207have occurred is that we are insignificant to the point that there's nothing that we do that needs to be reported or said or anything. And I agree we do have and I don't think that's true. So I would actually like to ask Dr. um I'd like to ask Jonathan to weigh in a little on the purpose of the communications and how that intersects with the board versus the staff versus the classrooms because I do think we have a fundamental difference and if it's too lengthy we can bring it back to a governance meeting as well. >> Yeah. Um, well, I don't want to go too deep into this because I actually do think um, how the district, the board chooses to communicate, it's really a policy decision, you know, so it's not I don't really
208see tremendous legal issues emanating from that so long as it's not abused that right to speak. Yes, it is true. There's certain things where the board president is the spokesperson for the board. Um, and you know, I think member Hills is actually making a good point. What are And actually Dr. Glass, I think, was echoing the same thing. What are member Hills used the word, what are the categories? What are the categories where the board president speaks? What are the categories where the superintendent speaks? How do we not how do we avoid creating so much bureaucracy that no one can say anything with comfort or confidence that they're not stepping into someone else's lane. And I think that was expressed by the superintendent and others. So I'll I'll leave it at that. The board reports
209is really about how you conduct your meetings and that is guided by the Brown Act. Board reports really are um not an opportunity to pick any item that a trustee wants to discuss at that time because you owe the public a heads up on the agenda as to what the issues are going to be that are covered. Um so really it is you know what what meetings I attended since our last meeting. Um, did I did I go to Sacramento and learn something or participated in a statewide association activity? Um, what school activities do I attend? It's not it is it should not be an opportunity um to address issues that are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the board that have not been agendaized. So, it has there has to be some discipline. So
210that also applies to comments that are made by board members throughout the meeting that go off trails and bring up things that have nothing to do with the comment at hand to make a different point. >> Purely you're speaking in the hypothetical. >> Oh, of course. >> You know, it depends whether we're talking about a comment that's made and I would allow and I allow some. >> We're talking manifestos here. Wherever those manifestos might be articulated just to give a a serious answer. Um we do have to be careful. We have to be careful that if the agenda item is X, then that the issue being spoken to is either on point or related to issue X. That's what board members owe to the community and their fellow board members. >> Thank you. >> I
211have a follow-up question. >> We were having comments, not questions. Oh, >> comments. >> Okay, >> point of order. >> Thank you. >> Um, so, okay, since I have to make this into a comment, I will say that um I appreciate that and I think it's a really good thing for the entire board to to do. Um, I regret that, um, there are many things that happen behind the scenes that the public doesn't know about and I have some concerns about how things get on the agenda because for me, if an individual board member is going to write a new board policy that focuses on the board um, almost to the point of being like a vanity project and it's not agendaized. So what do we do in terms of you know h how do
212I put that on the agenda? Like what why is a board member allowed to do that? Like how do we rewrite policy? Isn't that a board function? >> So we we have a new communication plan as of January 20th. It never came to the board. >> So I shared that with the community. >> Well, I'm I'm not going to speak to that specifically. If the board needs legal advice on that, I will. Um, how board policies get promulgated and put forth. I think you I think you do have existing policy that address that in the bylaws. >> I have a question for John. >> Okay. We're not going to ask any more questions because we do need to move forward. Um, can we submit the question in writing and get an answer back? I know.
213Yes, that would be great. Thank you. Okay, Jonathan, thank you very much for that insight. You're welcome. Um, is there Okay, so I think we've had questions, we've had comment, and we've had discussion, and this is not an action item. Um, but I would like to um encourage all of the feedback and and everything as you develop this new plan. Um, that which is the purpose of this item. So, thank you very much. Okay, moving on to um item eight, the staffing report. Uh this item is brought forward in an which was anticipation of um uh negotiations and budget and um ensuring and understanding how we how we compare to other districts as we start moving forward for um the next year. um planning Dr. um Maninoj is this man who's presenting this >> Mr.
214Conlin I will >> Mr. I don't have it in front of me. Sorry. >> Uh I gathered this data up so I can do the talk to these slides a little bit and then we we can answer questions about staffing uh as they arise. Um but yes, thank you. Per per your request, this report provides an overview of the LBSD's average class sizes and as well as compared to other uh similar districts. Um you on this first slide uh you can see the average class sizes by gradspan here uh for this school year. uh thanks to the board support, we are able to offer these small class sizes. Uh this is a notable contributing factor to the exceptional outcomes of our students, right, which we've talked about here many times. We're annually score in the
215top 5% of all schools in California on the state metrics. We have 90% pass rates in AP classes. 80 I think 83 of our student 83 84% of our students feel like their work is challenging and relevant. 88% of our students feel like they have a one adult on the campus that connects to them and the rest are neutral. Like just incredible outcomes which are part of this one big factor of just having these very small class sizes thanks to the board. Um what you could see here is this similarly uh average class sizes by content area or department here at the at the secondary level. Um this is uh you can see most of them will fall within that uh 20 to 24 on average. There's a few outside of that. Um you can
216specifically see at the high school level um there are some that are reflected in a wide range because we have a wide range of courses offered especially in our electives and world languages. Uh in order to offer those this many classes in a high school this small, you end up with small classes. You just there's no other way around it. You're going to have some small classes. Uh but it gives our students the opportunity to do that. It also the the high school shift to an eight period day um where teachers went from teaching five classes to six classes that decreased class sizes. Um so that they got smaller class sizes while at the same time kids getting more opportunities to teach additional classes if teachers were teaching an extra class. Um so really incredible
217class sizes for our students. Um the comparison part of this I'll go through fairly quickly. Um we included Irvine, a local school district, um our neighboring school district, as well as Newport Mesa, which is local and basic aid, and then uh four or five other uh basic aid districts are here as well. Um that I can share what that looks like of similar funding as us. So, as you can see here, um one of the things I one of the things I did want to point out here before I get too much into these, this is what's reported to the state, uh information system. So, I will just say publicly like being a little cautious around some of the data that's in here. And what I mean by that is when you report when you
218report the classes you have and the number of students in those through the state system, which the acronym for that is CalPADS, um is that there is a on the back end of a course that we offer in our student information system, it'll say it's an English course or it's a math course, right? But if you have an English course that's an intervention course which maybe intentionally have 10 kids in it, it's often included in these ratios and that how we don't know how other districts are designating an English or a math course which is typically where those smaller intervention classes are. So you may see some averages look probably a little bit lower than they are because they're including uh interventions. But this is a publicly available data that you can see um for
219the high school here uh to give some comparison. Um this is this is a Irvine school. Um over here high school here those classes are a little bit higher. One of the things you're bas you're generally going to find is why I'll go through this quickly is the pattern that you'll see is the base the school districts that are funded similarly as basic aid or community funded. uh the class size averages tend to be between 20 to 24 maybe 25 and the ones that don't have that add the that level of funding tend to be between 26 and 30 or 32. Um so you can see that here these class sizes are a little bit larger here in Irvine they have some more classes that are in the uh 30s range. Uh when you go
220to here with class sizes over that second column 22 22 23 24 right this is uh community funded or basic a school district. So those class size averages go down. Uh Moral Bay, another similar school district, we see those class averages a little bit lower in the in the lower 20s. Heels High School, similar school district, those lower class size averages. Uh Beverly Hills High School has some extraordinarily small class size averages. There may be some a reason for that. We would have to follow up and see, but u you can see they're a very similar district size and funding as us. Follow out the high school. Uh similarly in those in those like low to mid 20s we get the thirst middle school. Uh again you can see um those averages um and you
221can see there like we don't have a class size average in English of 13. Uh it means that it's actually including a couple of our intervention classes in that average. Um we know that class size average is closer to 20. Um so you have to like obviously be a little bit thoughtful but you can at least look for trends in this types of things. So, this type of data, uh, this is another an Irvine Unified School District, right? Those there's those averages. They're back up to 26, 27, 32, 27, right? And then you go to one that has a little bit more funding. They're using it to have more teachers, which decreases the class sizes. Um, this is Newport Mesa. This is a middle school in um, uh, Carmel. Um, 21, 19, 22, 23, right?
222Similar to us. Um, Hillsburg again pretty similar. 21 24 18 Beverly Hills Beverly Hills Middle School 17 20 21 uh Fletcher Middle School there in Palo Alto 16 18 24 25. So very similar averages in that second column. If we look at our elementary schools, top of the world elementary school, a little bit different at the elementary school because it, you know, you have a set of teachers that are there. Um, sometimes based on how the numbers fall, you do end up with smaller class sizes or you end up having to hire another teacher. Um, but you can see lower grades are definitely smaller uh at our K2 level potentially uh versus the upper grades. They get into the 20s. Uh here's Almoro. Similar. This es and flows each year. We've sometimes it's a little
223bit bigger at the other school, sometimes a little bigger the other one, but they're our K2 are definitely smaller than our 35. Um then when you go to again here's a Irvine Unified elementary school you see those their kinder is very small but you see the first second third grade those are much those are definitely larger than ours right they don't have the funding for the additional teachers that we would have um you have here's a Newport one um they're sitting there in the low most of those are there in the low 20s another one from Caramel Valley or Carmel Unified uh 20 22 17 21. Hillsburg 14 22 21. So they're all in those kind of similar averages. They're they're upper grades are actually a little bit are definitely lower than ours. Um here's
224the Beverly Hills Unified uh elementary school 198 21 20 24. So um a little bit a little bit smaller on the upper grades there as well. So uh you can kind of see how that pattern continues there. I'm really looking at that second column there again. the 19 21 20 23 20 21. So, um we've we prioritize having a little bit smaller classes at the K2 level than this uh versus our 35 uh with the younger ones. And so that kind of gives you that trend for that one. I know there may be other questions, but uh this was the report around average class sizes for us as well as um our comparable school districts. >> Thank you. Were you adding anything, Mr. Colin? >> Well, we're just we're ready to answer specific questions. We
225have a lot of data at our fingertips that we can uh >> Perfect. Okay, great. I'll open it up for questions. I know um um I'll wait till it's my turn. Okay. Um I'll start at this end. Member Perry, clerk, Perry, do you have any questions? >> Sure. Um I'm really glad our class sizes are small. I'm know that's wonderful and um would like to keep it that way. Dr. Mayberry, I've read some different studies about um not exactly the perfect class size, but when when a class size is too small and when it really makes a difference as far as getting too large. Do you know what those do you know what those um data points are? And I know it's different for elementary than it is for a high school English class, for
226example. >> Yeah, there's diff there's some different studies out on this. So it depends on the study. You know, in general, uh once you get above 20, you start to see some diminishing returns. As it continues to get higher, you see lower lower achievement. Um you also when you get below 15, um you see larger effects on student achievement. It also lots of I think from my lens as uh instructional instructional leader here, it's the class size matters. makes an impact, but the instructional strategies and the the culture in the class and how that this the students are learning is as important as factor as anything. >> There was just a study out called does class size really matter? We're I don't know if you read that one or not. >> Okay, thank thank you
227for that. >> Clerk Perry, if I could uh weigh in on this very briefly, um it's it's an interest of mine. Um actually one of my professors at my doctoral program at Satan Hall was Chuck Achilles who wrote the Tennessee Star study. Um which was the study that established what Dr. Mayberry was talking about when you get below about when you get below 15 students in a classroom. He was able to show statistically significant um increases in student outcomes as a result of that. Uh and it's unique. It was a unique study because it actually used an experimental method which in social science you don't see very often with random assignment. Um that said since that time a lot of other studies have come out that also confirm what uh Dr. Mayberry said the quality
228of the teacher the instructional strategy matters a whole lot and there is um an there is an opportunity cost that you pay by pushing your class sizes very low. In other words, you by to try and get under 15 in a class, you're going to give up a lot of other things uh to do that. This community um and this district has made clear that it values and prioritizes class size. I can see that by the out by the the class sizes that we have. Any teacher will tell you that it makes a difference. They don't care what the studies say. You could probably tell us about that, right? having um 20 versus 30 students increases the complexity on the work on the teacher um exponentially. Um so so we don't need that and and
229we know from our parents uh parents value low class sizes. They will chase school districts and private schools with low class sizes. uh our family works in um in the private school world and so I know from talking to them that they will all push out their low class sizes as a competitive advantage over others if they um if they have them and so it is an advantage. So just following up on the question that you asked um low class sizes are important in this community and we're fortunate to have them. >> Thank you member Dr. Monteski. Um, do we also do comparisons to other districts outside of California? And the reason I ask that is it might be interesting for people to know that California has the second largest pupil toteer ratio in the
230country which means on a ranking of class size in California we rank 48th in terms of so I know we're comparing to basic basic aid districts which is great but um I wonder I mean I think we have small class sizes and I think it's terrific but I also wonder about like uh other comparisons like that if we've looked at that before. >> I have not. Um but I have looked at the per pupil spending, right? And so you'll go to like some states up in New England, right? Where there are states where the pupil spending is the same as ours as a basic a district. Like it's common there to get, you know, way more twice as much as the average school in California gets. And that's what they do with it. They get
231smaller class sizes out of it. California definitely is not at the top of per people pupil spending for students which means that there's either lower pay and or higher higher classes. >> Any more questions? Okay, great. Thank you. Uh Dr. Kelly, no questions. Uh member Hills, >> I just have a couple and I I I want to be perfectly transparent over why I know I had asked about this. one was um under the understanding that we needed to understand class sizes and staffing for uh negotiations. So I had asked for that and is typically the timing for that is January is that correct for anything that would be done in that current year or negotiated in that current year? >> Are you talking about um >> just the information in general if it's being if
232it needs to be incorporated into any kind of negotiation or bargaining that we would have that information going in because I think that's that was this has been kind of an ongoing um Bless you. >> Um, both. >> So, so we have we have class- size caps, okay, in in in negotiations. Okay. >> So, I can kind of share those briefly. It's >> I don't I just was curious as the timing because I because I just wanted to make sure because I know one of the reasons that I was asking for a staffing report was and I appreciate the C class sizes and it's actually um prompted one question about um El Mororrow um and then I'll go on to my other um questions and purpose. Um the fifth grade I know that I we
233still have state guidelines where we have to have 20 and under. Correct. For third grade and under. Is that still true? That's not true anymore. Okay. Oh, it's okay. >> No, there used to be funding tied to that, but there's no longer funding. >> There's no longer funding. Okay. So I I'm curious about the fifth grade um at El Morrow and not getting into the the not looking to be involved in the minutia, but I'm just curious as to why if we why we have 27 per class in a fifth grade classroom at El Mororrow. If you added a class, we'd only have 20 per class because three more was that did I do my math right? We'd have a little under 20 per class if we had a fourth class. So, I'm just curious
234because I know I was in a class one year um at El at to think this I don't know if you were there at that time or not where um you had Miss Begai and Miss um um >> Dammer. >> Thank you. And a class was going to be very large and it was like going to be I think 27 or 28 kids. And so like day two of school they reconfigured a couple things and created another class and so kids could go into that class. So, you know, it and it reduced the class size and it was a very >> I think that situation was there was the potential for a combo class that they were looking to do and it was there was a lot of push back. It was like a year
235before I I came on >> because we didn't end up in the combo but it was like a last minute same teacher for two years in a row because they dissolved the combo and had to re re you know configure all the students. >> So, is that something is that a practice that we would that that we would do in the future? I'm just concern I'm concerned with 27 in fifth grade knowing that we could possibly make a smaller class and that would be beneficial to the learning. And so I'm just curious as to why we didn't do that. >> You would just it again it depends like there are there are bubbles that come through and so if you were to hire a staff member and it would be it'd be a permanent staff
236member. So you're going to be owning that staff member for for in in perpetuity. Um so again it's the the class size cap in elementary is 33 in fifth grade. So, we're still six below our contractual cap. So, from a budgetary perspective, it's it's not um you just have to live with that kind of that that that bubble that comes through. There's a bubble at at top of the world right now going from fourth grade to fifth grade. Um but again, it's an anomaly because the other grade levels below it are are not nearly as as high as that. So when when you're pushing up to the contractual cap, that's when you're you're concerned that okay, I need to we need to consider bringing a staff member in if there's a situation where we we're
237we fear that we're going to get more kids than we have actual space for. >> Okay, that makes sense. And I that leans Oh, sorry. >> And if I can just add just from a teaching and learning perspective, right, when he speaks of like a bubble, like let's say, you know, there's four teachers that are doing third grade at Top of the World and now we need to make it five for this bubble, right? and then they go to fourth grade and now we got to they go from four to five and they go fifth grade go four to five. You're one of the things we have to think one of the factors besides class sizes and funding that you think through is like what kind of teacher are you getting that can is maybe
238teach third grade this year but the next year they got to teach fourth grade and the year after that they teach right that's fifth grade. Do you hire a different teacher? Are you moving teachers around? the more you move teachers around or you make them teach something new, you always there's that risk of like the the teaching and learning might not be as high, right? Or at the level we want. And so you think through those or do I have to hire a new teacher that's that has never been in our district before. So you think through those things like what's the value of adding three class we if we add more students or add another teacher, what does that look like over six grades, right? As that large group moves through there, >> right?
239Right. No, and I appreciate that and I understand that having again having had four kids kind of moving around with a lot of different class sizes and stuff. I think the biggest one was 300 and the smallest was like 210. So, um we've kind of been on a little over the board on that. But one of my points of that question is is that I understand um that we have an abundance that we are heavily staffed um especially in some schools versus others. And so I think I'm trying I'm my point of some of these questions is having a a positive discussion of how we can look at this and address it so that we're best supporting our staff, but also creating opportunities for them if there's an if if there's a need that can
240shift so that we're still you keeping and utilizing the staff that we have rather than bringing in somebody new. And then the other part of that was I know there's been a lot of discussion and I've um we've had a lot of conversations around retiring and people like that and things like that. And so I know that some of these positions and I think this was kind of also some of the direction of the staffing that I was that I was kind of looking for kind of like the communications right there's other elements to it that I was hoping we would get out of that. And that was and a question that I asked um yesterday in a meeting was you know we have staff that has expressed interest in wanting to be um to
241retire. And so when we look at our staff numbers and we look at um without impacting class sizes because I think the still the ultimate goal would be to have a low class size. So, how so when we were looking at all of this, you know, and talked about retirement, one of the questions I asked, and maybe there's a better an answer today, I don't know, but like when we're trying to determine how how we're going to retire staff or if we can, how how do we know how many want to retire if we have to wait for a number? Like, can we find out ahead of time if there was some if X were offered this many might be interested? because from what I I'm I'm guessing is that we weren't really clear um
242on that on on that possibility. And so I'm just curious as to how that staffing report starting if it were starting, you know, if it's supposed to start in January, how that fits into that plan so that you can get an assessment and an idea of who could if like could we retire people early or not? >> Does that make sense? Is that even >> The last time that we did the last time we did this um there was a certain date that people had to tell us, >> right? if they were going to retire and take the early retirement thing. And then we knew from there if we could do it or not. And the next thing that we did was we looked to see who was leaving and what they were covering and
243then we could move things around as far as where we needed or not fill those positions because we didn't need them anymore. >> Right? So, I think that's kind of the nature of the question is how do we you know I I want to I feel this year we we um >> we did a lot of work on could we or could we not but I don't know if it was ever clear on h on who would if we could or how many we could if we could. We were not >> I can I can >> know what >> Sherry I can I can speak to that. So we we did a preliminary examination with a company called PARS. They take all of our demographic data and they do an analysis of who is just
244preliminarily who what you know they're they they anticipate who would potentially retire based on their age and and the other factors. Um what >> can we do that is that not discriminatory >> it's it's not discriminatory it's it's just looking at it's just looking at uh demographic data. Um so we we did that initially and then we as a meeting with manoj we we looked at that. So the next step if you were to move forward is you would fly it and then you'd get actual numbers as who's interested in retiring and then the company calculates it and determines okay is there a cost savings in in in this and if it is a cost savings and the board approves it then you move forward with it. So we didn't go to that next step
245because we had further conversations with manoj around the idea of when you take on a retirement incentive you're adding a liability to the books. >> Sure. So there was concern about the impact on the budget and how that could impact if we go off for bond, what our what our credit rating would be. So all those factors together were concerning enough to where Dr. Glass felt it wasn't he didn't feel comfortable recommending moving forward to the next step because what you do when you when you go to step two, you're asking people to sign off and say yes, I will I will retire if if this goes through. So they get they they get excited and they think this this is going to happen. And so if you were to go back through and and
246then you you come back and say sorry it's not going to happen because of our concerns about the liability piece. We didn't want to get that far and get people hopes too too high. We felt okay because of the biggest piece with with with the budget and the liability and and the bond and the credit rating it wasn't appropriate to move uh to take to take that next step. >> So we weren't even aware if there was maybe there was five or 15 or we don't really know what that number would have looked like if because we never offered it. We didn't officially fly it to them. That's correct. And but the but but the bigger piece was it was the the liability of taking on on the books. You're you're talking about impacting your
247credit rating and and wasting 510 $10 million of taxpayer money. That was that was the larger what because it your your credit rating it's like buying a car before you get your your your mortgage. >> Okay. >> So it impacts your what credit rating you're going to get and your and your interest rate. by the debt load >> because you're because you're adding more liability to the books. It's a payment of I think is it several hundred,000 a year for four years. >> Okay. >> Um and with in addition with the reserves being drawn down for the pool, it was there was multiple factors at play that were it was concerning about what credit rating the district would get. >> Okay, that makes sense. And this is the first time we've actually had any level
248of conversation publicly about this. >> Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Well, we've sent out communications to the effect of everything Mike said to the employees to inform them why we weren't moving it forward. Right. >> And we've informed the board of that very same communication. >> Well, I and I appreciate that and I I know that that communication has gone out. I think the bigger concern is that there was some concern that we would not have supported that and I don't think that's true. I don't think we ever had the information to even work with. So, I want I'm trying to bring and that was kind of the point of the staffing report. >> It it was requested um as an agenda item. I recommended not agendaizing it um because we don't think it's
249fiscally responsible to do. The board could have agendaized it if you wished to. >> But the recommendation financially was that it was not possible but we didn't really know. Okay. >> Another part of the equation is the people who usually retire are usually people at the top who are most expensive employees and then you backfill them with your least expensive employees. >> Sure. If not every position needed to be backfilled, we that could have >> we limited positions. We moved people around. >> We're getting into discussion, not questions, but um then let's move to public comment next. But um Scott, go ahead. Do you want to >> you actually said what I would have said. So >> Okay. All right. Um I don't think I have any more. Thank you um and for and and
250also allowing me to clarify why those questions were why I was questioning it to begin with. Um do we have public comment on this? >> We sure do. Um, let's start with Danielle Roershimer and then Nikki Romano and then Carol Nelson. >> Good evening. I'm I'm happy to say that it sounds like what I'm about to say and share with you is going to be preaching to the choir based on all the comments that I've heard already tonight and that makes me very happy. Um, so personally, I just wanted to share like an anecdote that when you start to meddle with class sizes, you have to be very careful because you're about to make culture changes. Um, I have the benefit, which is kind of unusual in this community of actually my children were in
251another district before we moved here. So, we were in living in Irvine, but technically in Tustin Unified, so we were looking at class sizes of 33. Like my son was in a class of 33. And I can tell you from being in the classroom, it is pure chaos. Especially with the little kiddos like that coming out of kindergarten where they have lots of freedom to roam around the classroom and kind of do uh PlayStations and art projects during the day. Um it makes it extremely difficult for just basic classroom behavior management for the teacher. And we actually had an aid, a full-time aid in that classroom. Um and they end up spending more time on discipline than they do on academics. they end up having to discipline in a way that I don't think is
252in line with our restorative justice practices. It becomes very almost militaristic, if that's a word, military-like. There's a lot of sending to the principal's office, which for like six and seven year olds is really kind of out of line, but they don't have the time to deal with it, so they just ship them out. So, um, again, I see a lot of head nods. So, I I'm I'm happy to see that I'm preaching to the choir. this is not something that our kids, our teachers or our parents want to experience. So, and then I looked at some of the similar studies um the star study um but a newer one called MBER um where they find that actually we end up with improved academics performance in enhanced student engagement, positive school climate, teacher satisfaction, and
253long-term benefits. And when they looked at these kiddos um and followed them longer term, they found that they actually had um higher college attendance rates did better on several measures such as retirement savings, marriage rates, and the quality of their neighborhood. So all around long-term positive benefits and they found that the smaller classes as a younger age actually extended into their acade academic performance into their later um academic years. So it's a benefit that sticks around. So thank you. >> Thank you for having me. Uh I too am very happy to hear that that discussion is going a different way than I thought. So thank you very much. Um but the comment that I wanted to make was to share the human element of this decision or this discussion. So while the data provided is
254offers a helpful comparison to other districts, I wanted to highlight the quantitative impact of our current staffing levels which are amazing as part of the equation that don't show up on a spreadsheet or in data. Um at the recent LCAP meeting, uh students share students from the high school shared a recurring theme that their experience in this district is defined by their ability to be seen and heard by staff members. They were they weren't just referring to their classroom teachers. They spoke about front office staff, custodians, counselors, principles, campus supervisors, and librarians. Uh, one of the student panelists noted that she spends 80% of her day at school between academics, sports, and clubs. For students like her, our campuses are not just buildings. They are their primary communities. they are uh we are only able
255to provide that level of personalized attention because we currently are well staffed. Having the time to devote to every student every day is not just a slogan for us. It is our core purpose. When staffing is robust, an office assistant has the mo uh a moment to check in on a sto student who looks upset. A campus supervisor has the bandwidth to build a rapport with that prevents conflicts. A librarian can guide a student toward resources that spark a lifelong interest. In addition to our primary job duties, staff on every campus are there to support the social, emotional, and well-being being of our students. We know that students cannot reach their academic potential if they don't feel safe and valued. Here's a quote from one of our students applications for our CSEA uh chapter 131
256scholarship. Although these moments with classified staff at LBHS may seem insignificant or small in the grand scheme of things, they are moments that will carry me into my future because sometimes the smallest things can have the biggest impacts on a person's life. As you review the staffing standards and class sites tonight, I urge you to just sounds like you're moving forward in the right direction. So, I'll stop there. Thank you, Nikki. I will say that I do blame you for the eight boxes of books that I have to find a home for every time I move things around in my garage because they won't part with any of them. And that's one kid and I have four. So, there's about 15 or 20 boxes just of books because of the wonderful program that they all
257came through with you all. Thank you. >> Hi, Carol Nilson. Um, I was a teacher, a district parent, now a district grandparent, was a union president and negotiator. Um, and that teaching experience included K8. So, I encourage you to not even consider an increase in class size. Um, and I'm also puzzled as to why comparing to other districts would be important because what we want to do is the optimal. And it reminded me of when Meredith was little and she'd say, "Yeah, but I need to go. I want to go because everybody else is going." And that was irrelevant. And I think what other districts do is similarly irrelevant. What matters is how we produce. But I have some anecdotal experience from my much younger teacher self. I taught 34 to one. It's a whole
258different thing. Kids learn because of course I worked hard to reach everyone. But I'll never know what I could have accomplished at 20 to one or even better maybe down towards 15 because I've experienced those low level levels also. Um I took a sbatical which is something you guys might want to consider offering because that's a way to painlessly reduce staff. Um, and when I came back, the 20 to1 incentives had been offered for districts. So, I had a choice of two assignments, straight fourth grade or a 34 combo. Combos mean of course you have to blend curriculum. But it also means you have about four years range in social and emotional development in your students and academic abilities and achievements. And when you take on a combo, you've got to take on the parents
259who are probably uncomfortable with their first experience with a combination class. So why take it on? Especially when you remember that combos are usually offered only as a solution to a financial problem. And they're very rarely offered as a solution to an academic issue, a better way to teach. Again, why take it on? I chose the 34 combo knowing all of that, having taught combos before, but the third grade required a 20 to1 ratio for everybody. So, I saw that small classroom as being so beneficial and so enriching of what I could offer, I took it on. I had time to notice changes for kids. If I noticed a day-to-day change in demeanor, alertness, social interaction, I could reach out to the parents. If I noticed acting out, withdrawing, a flat affect, I could find
260out why and then deal with it. As an example, maybe a failing grandparent. I could choose a book to read that would address that. Um, I could support the child if That was three minutes and 30 seconds. That was awesome. Thank you, Carol. Great teacher. My kids loved you. Do we have another speaker just so caught up? Um Megan Rhymer, Michelle Hyberg, Jackie Conn, and Ketta Brown. and then we're going to try and get our last item in while we have our attorney here. >> Hi there. Um I'm Megan Rhymer. Um I'm so thrilled um with the conversation that's been happening with class sizes. We are a new family to the district, but I also have a masters in education and was um an elementary school teacher, both public and private, and a social emotional
261teacher. Um, I actually was trained in um a unique teaching format, but I was trained through a British primary program in Denver. Um, and so I taught three-grade multi-age. Um, I'd had third, fourth, and fifth graders together um, in my classrooms and and the private school where I taught was structured the same way with three grades um, in a in a purposefully multi-age um, learning environment. um that was beautifully designed and in both opportunities both teaching in Wash Park and teaching um at Stanley I was able to experience um I when I taught public school my class size was actually 27 um I had nine students in each grade typically any student over that 27 you felt deeply in your bones if your class size was increased um but we had this beautiful opportunity with
262these families And I think um I we never anticipated actually leaving Denver, moving to California. We moved here in 2018. Um and I was heartbroken actually to leave the school where I was teaching because I had imagined my children kind of going up through this beautiful program. I have overactive waterworks, so I'll I'll power through. But this is something I feel very very deeply about. And when we moved here, everyone was like, "Oh, Orange County has these amazing schools." And we were in South Orange County and Kappo. And we just kept looking for kind of like, "Where where though are these amazing schools we keep hearing about?" And we looked and we looked and we looked at every private school. We looked all over. And what we found was you, what the district staff that
263pour into these children like just this tremendous amount of love and effort and that they do that because they have this capacity that that the board has offered them to be present in these beautiful settings in these beautiful small classes with these resources. And I mean, Thirsten is an example of the outcome of that with with the recognition they just received um through the distinguished schools. What you're doing works and it works beyond just academic measures. It works in a whole child development and your focus on these students and and the way that you don't just staff a small classroom, but you thoughtfully provide intervention in social emotional support. It's not just the class size. It's every aspect that you so thoughtfully prepared for every single one of these students. The difference we've been in
264Kappo since kinder. I have a sixth grade and a fifth grader. The difference in this one school year. It's April. It's beyond what I can even explain. And so I just want you all to remember Thank you so much for your words. Somebody told me one time that being emotional shows how impassionate you are. And as um one that lives in that same world of waterworks, I applaud you. Thank you. Hello. Um my name is Michelle. I'm also the co-founder of Just Gather Wellness and I'm an early educator and I've worked with classes ranging from six children to 22 and there's no comparison. Children form good self-esteem with one- on-one attention. That's when they do it. And the smaller the class size, the happier the students. I haven't um reviewed your budget, but I think
265we spend a lot of money for mental wellness. And I think that we might want to shift some of that towards actually more teachers because our teachers are the most important aspect of this school. And as we saw from the survey that quality of education is our number one concern. So our teachers are our number one concern. And as Dr. Glass shared, the lower the class size, the better the outcomes from a socioeotional perspective. Number one, that is pretty much the most important thing that we're dealing with. We are in a pediatric mental health crisis. Teachers are relying on technology and the bigger the class, the more technology they're going to be using. And so when we do get to discuss our protocols, we recommend definitely not more than two hours of teacher use of
266technology with our students and none for our early learners. I do hope that we will continue to actually hire more teachers and decrease the class sizes. We have the funding and we have the ability and I agree that we need not compare to other bigger schools. I mean, Beverly Hills, I think, was averaging at 15. I think we ought to be there, too. We're losing lots and lots of parents because they want smaller class sizes and less technology use. So, I do trust that this board will take forward hopefully smaller class sizes than we already have. And I do want to say thank you to all the teachers for helping my children when I was a single mom and I didn't come to any board meetings and they ended up being the most beautiful children
267in the world with two athletes of integrity. Thank you. Best teacher. Um and I'm I'm just so honored that they were here. Thank you, Michelle. >> Good evening, Dr. Kelly. I'm one of the oldest at my school, so I understand that that feeling of being in the room for a very long time. Um, I'm a 28-year resident of Laguna Beach, and this is my 10th year teaching in Laguna Beach Unified. I teach steam to over 500 kids a week, and um, it's the greatest joy of my life. I've taught at every level, K through college. I've taught in districts where I had five periods a day in a lab science with over 40 kids per class. Manage that when you're doing chemistry experiments, but it's really I love the the accolades for teachers, but we
268have to remember that class sizes is really really about the kids. What are the kids getting by having small class sizes? um higher academic achievement, larger gains for disadvantaged students, those who are ELELLL learners and those in special education, more individualized instruction. I'm able to hone in on those kids who need some more help even though I only have them for 30 or 45 minutes. When I have a smaller class, I can get to them and I can follow up with them with their teachers as the week goes on. It also improves our classroom behavior and engagement. um my teacher student relationships especially since I start with them in kindergarten and get them all the way through fifth grade develop. I get to see them grow and as a member of the community I get
269to see them outside of the school and see how they become amazing adults as well. Um I've I've read the studies. I remember the star study. I remember teaching as a high school teacher in the 1990s when class size reduction became a requirement. It never quite got up to secondary, but as I saw my students, my my own children go through the school district in smaller class sizes, 20 to one, I saw the benefits. Whether or not there were attention issues, whether or not there were special emotional needs, there were people there who supported them. Um, I'm grateful for my job. I'm sorry you may never get me to retire, but um just know that the small class sizes make a huge difference and I appreciate the support and my students did. My 500 students
270now and my two who are now off. So, thank you. >> Thank you. I can attribute this is a celebrity in our community that just walked away. We've I think my daughter dressed as a bodyguard one year for Halloween and stood behind her at she passed out candy. So, it was great. Keta, thank you. board members should stay out of negotiations, which is class size. Um, let the experts do their jobs, you are students that much. Okay. Um, okay. Come on. Yeah. No, come on up. We're going to make a motion after this to table the last item until the next meeting, which I do believe we have legal on um board as well. So, we're going to do that and we'll move into public comment because I know you also want to get on
271the road. >> So, I just want to be clear why this kind of presentation does concern me because on the surface this is a staffing report, but then these conversations can often turn into uh becoming scrutiny on staffing levels, then salaries, then cost per student, and before long, the people who make this district what it is are being discussed as numbers on a spreadsheet. I do not think this is a healthy direction for this district. Long Beach or Long Beach, Laguna Beach is a basic a district. Our finances are not going to look like districts that rely primarily on state funding and they should not be judged as though they do. So when cost per student figures get tossed around without that context, the picture gets distorted immediately. Other districts may depend on steadier state
272formulas, especially when the statewide average is lower than when a community like Laguna Beach can generate locally. And we are for fortunate to be in a district with the strength to be basic aid and that should be understood and used wisely. So I'm not interested in a district trying to win some symbolic prize for looking for looking cheaper on paper. I want a district that is excellent. I want a district that spends what it takes to remain excellent. If that means a high investment per student, I am comfortable with that. And because what I hear in that is a choice about what the actual student experience is. I hear a choice about strong teachers, stable classrooms, meaningful support, and the kind of education environment families come here for. And when people say that staffing budget
273looks too high, they should be honest about what they are actually describing. They're describing experienced teachers who have stayed long enough to move up the salary schedule, as they should. They are describing step increases and column movement that help educators keep up with the cost of living. They are describing rising health benefit costs which affect districts everywhere. They are describing the real cost of recruiting and retaining strong educators in a highcost coastal community where living nearby is expensive and communing commuting in is expensive too. And that is the cost of keeping experienced people in a classroom avoiding constant turnover and giving student stability. So I want children learning from people who know the community, know the schools and know their craft and have enough support to keep doing that work well. If this community is
274fortunate enough to have the resources to support something exceptional, then we should treat it as a responsibility. Students do not experience a budget narrative. They experience adults in front of them every day. And if much of our investment is going to the teachers and staff and who uh who are there for our children, teaching them, supporting them, and helping them build the future in this community as empathetic citizens, then I want to say that money is going exactly where it should. Thank you. >> Thank you, Erica. >> Oh, >> yeah. Come on. >> Why not? >> Yeah. >> Um, so just real quick, I'll be brief. >> Have to get to the microphone first. >> Sorry. I'll be brief because I'm sure we all want to get home. Um, so, uh, after that December 24
275board meeting, I was kind of question my priors. Are schools good? And I looked at some of the information that we put out in the election by the guys in the back of the room. And so did my deep dive. So on this money, like where do we spend money versus Irvine was the question that I asked. Um, so uh, it actually, if you break it down, there's a few items. So there's, um, as I mentioned, there's significant mellows that do not show up in that number. We we've been historically paying a payo. So part of that operation numbers is going into our capital costs. We have older facilities. So we have higher maintenance. We have dis economies of scale. The state of California, the federal government requires certain employees. We need to spread those
276costs over fewer students. And so that relates that's a higher per student cost. Um and then finally then the other one is we do spend about twice as much as Michelle said um per student on mental health services though that does seem to bear out in the healthy kids um survey data. Um, our teachers do not make that much more per step. Um, but we do have more teachers that are at the top of that. They're more tenure, so they're at the higher ending curve. So, the question is, what does this give us? Where does this the balance of the money go? It actually does go into teaching in the classroom. Our classes are about 30% smaller than Irvine. Our class rooms are about 30% smaller than Irvine, older schools. Um, so yeah, interesting data
277point. In terms of the average class size, we are 21. Connecticut and uh Massachusetts are 20. So we're about with high performing East Coast districts. Here's some other interesting data points. In terms of AP courses, Lagun Beach High School has 24, University High School, three times the population, three student size, has 26. We have 16 honors classes. They have six. So that gives us a total of 40 advanced classes. University High School is 32. In terms of clubs, we have a 100 clubs. University of High School has 120. Again, three times the population. We have 18 distinct sports. They have 16. And on total sports programs, this be male, female, combined, we have 28. They have 26. So, where does the spending go? The spending gets us all the resources of a school that is
278three times the size and all the variety of student experiences that go into that. Another data point that I found that I thought was interesting is students that graduate from Laguna Beach High School as a percentage of population are as likely to go to University of California, a service academy or the Ivy League as a kid who goes to modern day. And that's not and not every kid is organized for is optimized for academics here. Now, you mentioned that we have uh areas to work on ESL and high school math. Uh my nephews are ESL. I'm electrical engineer, very sympathetic to math. Um, in terms of the state performance, we perform at the highest that you of any comprehensive school where there is not a predominantly Asian group. And what that means is there's a
279lot of pressure inside the house to do homework and a lot and a lot of these schools are in Silicon Valley and on average there's about half an hour more homework that's done in those houses of first generation immigrants than there are here. So, but what goes along with that um are mental health issues. And so, if we as we look at pushing on this, which I'm a big fan of, I would guid against cutting the the health staff. In fact, Palo Alto Unified has had a recent spate of suicide attempts and that's one of those high performing math districts. So, anyways, thank you all. Good night. Ivy, you and Logan Rock. >> Thank you, N. Um, so we need to move to qu to if there's any more board comment. Um, I want to
280just get an idea if there's some comments. So, um, I have a a point of information. Can we move now to table the last item or do we have to get through the comments before and get to that item and then table it? >> Okay. Can I have a motion to >> Okay. So, there's a a motion on the floor to move um item nine, governance discussion to April uh 16th, and it's seconded by Jim. All in favor? >> I thank you. Motion passes. So, we're going to go on with um uh staffing uh comments and discussion and then um public comment on non-aggenda items if there's any left. Do we have cards on non-aggenda items at the end? Okay, maybe somebody will come forward. Um thank you, Jonathan, so much. Thank you. And >>
281I really appreciate you being here. You don't have to leave. I'm just making sure you know that we appreciate you. Okay. Uh public com um >> Oh, we we do. I thought it was on the item we were um >> Okay. >> putting up, but it's not. >> Okay. We we can move to extend at 10 if we need to, depending on how many cards we have. So, let's move on to comments um and discussion on this item on staffing. Um I'm gonna start with you. >> Okay. Okay. Um, member H. Yeah, I would just like to thank the people uh the public comments uh were excellent on this and um one of the things that I've really enjoyed uh being on the board is going around to the different schools and running into teachers
282that uh that taught my children and uh the my grown children now uh often talk about what an incredible experience they had in the Lagouna Beach schools. And so, um, I'm hoping that, uh, it may be possible that some of my grandkids are going to be back here going to school here. And so, I really appreciated particularly the very personal comments that were made. And, um, and, uh, uh, so I just wanted to thank the witnesses, I mean, the speakers. >> Um, Ivy Um, I'm gonna say I have no comment at this time, but thank you all for your comments. I appreciate >> Thank you. Um, clerk um, clerk Perry. >> Sure. Um, I have been here a long time. I actually taught with Miss Nielson and had classes of 35 and 36. In fact,
283one year I had 38 second graders. But luckily, we went to the board and parents helped me and the board did hire another teacher that year. I mean, I had four kids around my teacher desk. I had no desk. Um, and I was that teacher that was a bubble teacher and taught third grade and then fourth grade and then fifth grade. So, I'm really glad we're not doing that. And like Mrs. cone. I taught science and I had four at one point I had 40 40 third graders and I had materials for seven. So, you know how you have to try to make everything happy? Oh, boys and girls, you don't have just one lab partner. You've got six of them. And we've got one test tube and we've got one of these. And I
284I think like Miss Nielson said, um what a much better experience it would have been with half of those students. And I'm so grateful that Lagona has um gotten to the financial place where we can have these small classes and I will keep fighting for those. >> Thank you. Member Meski, Dr. Mesoski. >> Great. Thank you. Um I have very little as well. I just again I want to clarify and thank you to um Danielle for recognizing that this conversation was not about do we increase it's to how whatever we need to do to keep it small but it was also in the context of you know how can we um best support our teachers when they are ready um to retire and is that something that we could have looked at in the staffing
285report. So I look forward to that conversation continuing and seeing um how we can improve that process going forward for next year. Um it's and um if anything changes this year, I hope that we are all the first to know um so that we can do something um for our staff and um I appreciate everyone's comments, but the ultimate goal is lower keep the class sizes very small at all levels um and maximize our staff where we can and where we are able and um support them the best way we can. So thank you everyone for your conversation. Um, okay. So, tabled the last item. We have no more uh discussion on this item. So, we're going to go back to um non-aggenda items or public comment on non-aggenda items. Uh, clerk Perry >> Ka
286Brown, >> I apologize for not being here at the start of the meeting. I was driving madly back from LA. Um, I just would like to echo the kind of fishiness of having these close two-hour close sessions with the employee dismissal release and nothing coming from it. Um, I heard what your curated attorney um said. Um, I am still very very concerned as are a lot of us in the public. So, just wanted to reiterate that. Thank you guys. >> Do you want to clarify what we learned from the attorney today about you were putting that on because you thought you he wanted on all the time. So that was really the >> Yeah. So, I had I had um asked a question about the discipline release uh dis dismissal discipline dismissal release and I
287understood that it needed that it was a placeholder on the agenda for every meeting and I do think at one point um maybe correct me if I'm wrong or any of you here I I thought we had that as a regular item on there just as a placeholder whether there was a discussion or not. So, I misunderstood that. Um but >> discussion >> and there but there was a discussion tonight. Yes, absolutely. and there will be discussions at times. So, um it's not necessarily a bad thing. Uh so, thank you for that question. Okay. Do we have any other public comment? So, I our next meeting is uh next week on April 16th. April is a full me a full um month uh because then we start tapering off into uh less frequent through the
288summer. Uh our next regular scheduled meeting is April 16th. We do have a start time on that meeting at 4:00 um which was predetermined and pre-aggreed on by the board um on April 16th. The that closed session is at 4:00. Open session starts at 6. And I need a motion to adjurnn the meeting at 9:53. >> Ah. >> All in favor? Have a have a nice evening everyone. Thank you for the new communication system.