GCC Special Board Meeting - December 9, 2025

001Good afternoon. [laughter] I call to order the GCC special board meeting 12 December the 9th, 2025 at 1:45 p.m. Call to order. Roll call. >> Mr. Mark Anderson >> here. >> Mr. Harry Block >> here. >> Mr. Bruce Mandre >> present. >> Mr. Jack Turner >> present. >> Lily Campbell present. All board members present and accounted. Do we have public comments today? >> We have no public comments. >> Superintendent's update. Superintendent, do you have an update at this point? >> Uh, Madam President, there's no update. >> All right. Well, at this point, we shall move right into item four, study session, ethnic and brown act training for board of directors and cabinet, I believe. >> Yes. [clears throat] Yes. So, we are here. Would you please introduce yourself and let us know who you are

002and what's expected of us today. Thank you so much for being here. >> Absolutely. Thank you so much. Uh, Madame Chair, my name is Jerry Simmons. I'm one of our partners at Young Minion Core and, uh, we have represented you all since the beginning. I was actually the person who wrote your first uh charters that were approved by Grant High School District back in the day uh when uh Bruce was chief business officer or some fancy title like that. And uh yeah, so um anyway, so wonderful to be here to do your ethics training. So much has been accomplished in all those years uh by you all and uh so it's a great privilege here with you. Um the legislature and their uh divine wisdom uh thought important uh that all of you receive uh

003a minimum 2 hours of ethics training every two years. So this is designed to satisfy that requirement which you have to complete by January 1 of 2026. Uh once you complete this, then you uh have a two-year grace. Um also recently the legislature uh also in their wisdom thought it would be great for you to have fiscal training. So that will be coming soon to a boardroom near you. Um but uh you know a lot of this stems from uh and we'll talk about this stems from bad actors elsewhere in the charter school movement. Uh and the headlines they've generated uh the audit reports they've generated have led the legislature to feel like we have to do something. And so their proposed solution was train everyone. Um I'm not convinced that the training is going

004to fix the problem of intentional bad actors. Um because you know that's that's really a different sort of person altogether, right? Um but maybe margins it makes a difference with people who just didn't know uh and they make a misstep on one of the laws we're going to talk about today just simply because they didn't know better. Right? So um so maybe at the margins it makes a difference with regard to those folks. Uh but you know we're here today to do the training for you to meet the obligation. Um and uh obviously it's become a more and more serious thing to sit on a charter school board. You know back when I got started you know they were basically it was basically like going to a PTA meeting. You know it's like who is

005going to bring the popcorn to the next one? You know whatever. And uh now it's become a serious you know charter schools have become a serious enterprise uh some of whom including you all have really significant budgets that you manage and hundreds of employees that you manage and thousands of students that you serve and uh and so as a result you are you know you're very important part of how the state is serving the public uh particularly in the education space. So without further ado, I'm just going to um really advance us into uh the the presentation. This is all the things this course has to cover in order to meet the legal requirement. And so we we're going to talk all those things. I promise. Uh and uh you know, great that you have

006uh obviously Jason and the cabinet here today. Uh, one of the things that um the legislature um did uh this last session um is apply all of these same training requirements to the chief administrator of a charter school. Uh in this case, uh Jason Sample uh who is your superintendent and CEO is who occupies that role for you. Um but wonderful to have other folks in the cabinet be trained as well because as long as you're going to do it, the reality is a lot of the the you know mistakes or lack of knowledge issues that come up um are actually typically from people lowered in the chart who don't receive the training as a matter of course whereas typically um your CEO and the board are trained you know just as a matter of

007course. So, um this is just a little bit more about that um training uh requirement for administrators. Okay. Your current requirement is that you're going to maintain records uh of this for five years uh documenting your compliance. So, you'll hold on to these slides and somewhere in your files uh to prove like I was here. I did this training for you. Um and uh and then uh effective July 1, uh charter schools with websites have to post instructions and contact information for the purpose of requesting records regarding compliance. So this is just one more of these has to be on your website somewhere uh kinds of things. So maybe think about putting that somewhere in the board section of your website. Uh, as I sort of previewed for you, uh, coming up next, not part

008of this training, but coming up next will be fiscal training for charter school boards. Um, and, uh, this will be, uh, for folks who are in service as of April 1 of 2027. So, it's not something you'll be doing next year, but, you know, about a year and a half from now, uh, look for some fiscal training uh, coming to a boardroom near you. Um and uh you'll be pleased to note that although the legislature provided no minimum training time, they did at least cap it at 4 hours. >> [laughter] [laughter] >> So um and that training is going to include uh a lot of uh issues about um you know uh all the laws and regulations that pertain to creation and approval of budgets um fiscal penalties for non-compliance and things like that. So

009uh so with that sort of preview about what's coming next in the big picture um you know I want to talk now about ethics and sort of why we're here. Um now in this case in this context uh because the legislature had basically set the curriculum for today. It's not about the sort of dilemma you see on the screen where you're trying to decide do I do I save the one person or the five people uh because no matter which way I send the train track uh train uh somebody is not going to end up doing well here right like that's not that's not what we're talking about what we're talking about in this context is really all about um just securing public trust right through doing your work in a way uh that ensures

010that the public has a high degree of trust and confidence in all the decisions that you're making on their behalf, uh that you're spending money in ways that make sense and improve student outcomes, uh that you're treating folks uh with fairness, uh in in process, right? So, in terms of why, you know, why is it the legislature reacted? I mentioned to you that there were a number of other school district and charter school issues going on around California. Um I pulled a random sample of headlines, right? Uh, and so you'll see some of them here. Uh, you'll see some more here. Uh, it just goes on and on really. I mean, and this is only a very small fraction of the headlines going on around the state of California, just even over the last few

011years. Um, so if if I had pulled all of these, we literally could have probably had a hundred slides of nothing but headlines. Um, just to give you a sense of how many issues there are in this space of conflict of interest law violations, uh, people trying to profit off the backs of students, uh, in inappropriate ways, uh, in extreme ways. Um, so, uh, so that's why the legislature thought we're just going to apply this training requirement broadly and we're going to try and just see if we can use that as a tool to get people to to do better if they know better, right? Is the is the theory here. So, it's all about trustworthiness, right? which is a cycle because trustworthiness comes because you treat people fairly because you avoid the appearance of

012impropriy in all of the activities of the organization. Uh because you take responsibility when there's errors, you acknowledge those and you fix them. Uh as opposed to trying to bury them under a rug somewhere and pretending they didn't happen. Um treating other people with respect, right? All of those things lead to uh the agency being uh trustworthy um in its operations. So here's the core topics we're going to be talking about today. Uh we're going to be talking about personal financial gain and when that is improper in this setting. We're going to talk about transparency laws. And of course um you're familiar with these. This is the open meeting law, right? This is um the public records act requirements. Okay. So you're familiar and I know have done some training on some of these topics

013for years. Um fair processes and this is really just about you know when people file a complaint with you that they're treat they're give provided due process that they're given an opportunity to be heard. Um that you also hear from the party that's being complained about that you give them fair opportunity to be heard as well before you make decisions. Um uh another category is use of public funds. So, we're going to talk about, you know, what are some areas where other charter schools around California have ended up in trouble over how they've used public funds and been called out in some way. Um, so we're going to have some examples of that and how you can avoid those kinds of issues. And then we're going to have a a category uh around bribery and

014gits. Um, and you know, I would say um that this historically was um not a big deal because historically charter schools were really small entities and they had maybe a couple hundred students they served and nobody would think to go bribe a charter school board member because there would be no point, right? Like there wasn't enough money in it to make it worthwhile to do. Um but now that you see charter networks have formed that people have a budget of 100 million or more suddenly you know you as charter school board members become potential targets of efforts to you know obtain contracts or for services or for goods you know and people you know people may have more of an interest in you than they would have 20 years ago. Um, so, you know, really

015in California, you know, there's a web of state and federal laws um that guide uh your service um to the community here. And all of these laws just set minimum standards. So, you as a board, you can always set a higher standard. If you feel like that standard isn't good enough as we go through the presentation today, you can always set a higher or better standard. You just can't ever go less than the standards we're going to talk about today. [snorts] Um, one of the other key concepts is that public service is about just that, service. Um, and where a ton of charter schools have gone wrong over the years is you get a board member on a board and they view it as a money-making opportunity as opposed to a way to serve the

016community, right? And uh that orientation or that paradigm then leads them on a path to the dark side uh because they begin to make a series of decisions that um lead them to violate a lot of the laws we're going to talk about today um on their path to trying to use the charter school as a money-making venture as opposed to a community service donation of time. Okay. So um obviously uh you know here in the context of a democracy also it's important to know that um leaders here we don't have any special privileges right you don't have special privileges as a board member I don't have a special privilege as a government agency lawyer Jason doesn't have any special privileges as CEO here um in fact if anything we're more regulated right than the

017average member of the public is um and so u But all of that is about the concept here is just to know like look unlike some of the European countries that have monarchies and things like that where people have special privileges just because of their birth or their title or whatever we don't have that here right um so here you know it's all about allowing members of the public and the media to understand what we're doing the decisions we're making why we're making those decisions um so that we can show that we are good stewards of the of the dollars that have been entrusted to us, of the resources and time that's been entrusted to us. And what happens if we u breach those duties, right? Well, now uh in light of the revisions the

018legislature approved to the Charter Schools Act where there are either substantial fiscal or governance factors, a charter school can be denied renewal even if it is so high performing that it's outperforming all of the public schools that those students would otherwise attend. So this set of issues has really been elevated in a new way since the passage of AB1505 because doing extremely well serving students is not good enough anymore to sort of ignore uh breaches of the statutes we're going to talk about. The chartering authority uh can also revoke a charter where it has evidence that you've committed some violation of uh the charter or you have uh failed to meet GAP or generally accepted accounting principles uh or you've engaged in fiscal mismanagement or you violated any law. Now you have an opportunity to

019try to cure these sorts of violations before a revocation occurs. Um, so there's a process that an an author author a chartering authority has to go through. However, um, I would say more and more we're seeing issues where districts are taking up um, notices and commencing a revocation process. I would say we've had more probably in 2025 more notices than maybe I would guess at least the last 10 years combined. So it gives you a sense that there really is this ramping up by chartering authorities of a lot more oversight, a lot more notices, a lot more, you know, engagement, um, and a lot less trust that, hey, I'm sure you're doing great over there. I saw the student test scores last week. You know, um there's just a lot less trust that the student

020test scores are enough. Um what are some other serious consequences? Well, um if you have an ethical lapse, you could face removal as a board member. Um and uh I just just had this happen this year with a client where um their board colleagues voted to remove them from the board. Um, and it's a painful process because it occurs in open session. Uh, and so you can imagine having the board in open session discuss whether you should or shouldn't be removed from the board. Um, it's a it's embarrassing when that happens. So, u, but that is one of the potential options a board has. If it finds that a colleague is is not behaving according to norms that you've set, um, you could face uh a loss of employment, right? And how this comes up

021is um you know your boss reads about uh what's happening over there at that charter school whose board you sit on and they think I'm not sure I want to be affiliated with you anymore right because maybe that dam maybe I feel like that damages my brand over here right where you're working and in your day job so um it can have implications like that and I've seen that happen over the years um you could face criminal investigations prosecution jail time, financial penalties, and yes, all of those things have happened to charter school board members uh and administrators over the years. And I would say right now, we have more criminal investigations going on at charter schools over the last 12 to 24 months than we've had in all the prior years since the Charter

022Schools Act passed in 1992. >> Are you going to talk about what some of those infections might have been? >> Yep. We're gonna talk about several of those today. Yeah, exactly. It's my goal to not have you be in a situation like that. Obviously, that's that's the whole point of the training is to is to give you hopefully some practical pro tips. Um, do do this, don't do this, you know, so that you can avoid finding yourself in a scenario like that. Exactly. Um, administrative investigations, financial penalties. This can be for example the Fair Political Practices Commission has authority to do enforcement of the form 700 requirements and things like that. They can fine you if you don't have a form turned in on time, things like that. Um, you can face civil litigation. Where

023this often comes up is, um, you let an employee go and they know you didn't do something right and that becomes their opportunity to raise that issue publicly in litigation against you, claiming you retaliated against them for for them having raised a legitimate compliance concern or something like that. Um, and then reputational harm. Um, and this is a huge one that I think a lot of folks just don't think about at the outset, but when you are in the newspaper for, you know, uh, breaches of ethical, you know, uh, duties, um, one of the things that often comes up is you have trouble recruiting good employees because guess what everyone's going to do before they apply for a job with you? They're going to Google and they're going to be like Gateway Community Church. They're

024just going to see what Google pops up, right? And if the first three articles are things about board members engaging in bad conduct or administrators engaging in bad conduct, it may change what whether they decide to even apply for the job, right? It may it may scare away good really talented people, right? Uh and the other thing it may do is it may scare away students because they may think, gosh, I don't even know this school might. Um so I don't know that I'm going to go sign up there. And so often times what you see is schools end up in the news, you see a a cycle where their enrollment begins spinning downward. Um and where that then creates financial problems which then creates other problems. Right? So you can see that these things

025are interrelated and they can create problems for you and unexpected ways sometimes. Here's our our training road map. Those are the major categories we talked about on the left. And then uh so we're going to spend a good deal of time on those first two categories less on the remaining three but really sort of proportional to I think have been uh with other schools. So first up we have uh the open meeting law. Um so some of this will be a refresher to you but there were some changes that went through this year so I'm going to highlight those as well. Um, so we're going to talk about the Brown Act in terms of these six questions. Um, what's the purpose? What's a meeting? What are the notice and agenda requirements? What are the public's

026rights? Uh, what are permission topics? And what are penalties and remedies? Okay. Um, there's some fancy language in the Brown Act that looks like it was written by a founding father. uh you know about the people not yielding their sovereignty um to the agencies serve them um it always makes me chuckle when I read that section of brand act but you know really the goal is to foster broad public access right that's really the goal um and that's sort of the modern-day translation right um so the idea is that members of the public should have the ability to come to hear your your discussions and your votes to hear presentations even like the one I'm doing Now, um why? Because a presentation at one board meeting could lead to action two or three meetings down

027the road, right? It may be informing your thinking that leads you in a certain direction. Okay. So, how does the plan act accomplish that purpose of broad public access? Um first, by obviously giving notice to members of the public through your agenda posting on your website and your physical posting. Okay. Um the idea behind this is that all of us have a dozen or more probably public agencies that serve us at any given time and we can't be in a situation where we literally are attending all those agencies meetings every time they meet uh just to find out if there's something that might impact us or our family, right? That would be very inefficient way to do things. So, the notice is designed to really allow people to know when is that one time that

028there's something on the agenda that is important enough for me that I'm going to arrange child care or I'm going to arrange time off my jobs that I can go attend that meeting and give my input. Um, which is pretty rare if you think about it. For most citizens, most of us, if we're just living our daily lives, and we're not elected officials or appointed officials, for most of us, that might be once a decade, right? And it might only be one agency where we would show up that once a decade. So, the idea of the agenda is really in some ways also to let members of the public know when they don't need to go as much as when they need to go, right? Um the meetings have to be open to the public

029uh with the exception of your closed session uh portions of your meeting of course. Um transparency doesn't mean chaos, right? This is still your board meeting. You're doing your meeting in public, right? This is not like an east coast town hall where everyone has the same opportunity to speak and you can speak over one another and things like that's not how things work here, right? This is your meeting. your board chair, you know, has the right to conduct the meeting, to remind people that time to speak is expired and move on to the next speaker, that sort of thing, because it's your meeting and you have the right to get through your agenda and you've got a lot of things on your agenda. You have the right to get through those items. Okay. Um, you

030can always um set more stringent requirements that foster greater access and participation. So, we have some clients who say, "We post we're going to post our agendas a week in advance, not 72 hours." Or, "We're going to post all the whole agenda packet online, not just the agenda." Or, "We're going to post the minutes online, not just the agenda." You know, so, um, those are all things that you can decide to do as a board that foster greater public access, but you could just never do less, right, than what we're going to talk about today. So, what is a meeting? Okay. Obviously, what what's going to trigger that agenda posting requirement is anytime that a majority at the board hears, discusses, deliberates, or takes action on an item of school business. So, even just hearing

031a presentation like you're doing right now triggers an agenda posting requirement because you're hearing about an item that relates to the school in some fashion, right? So, the most common violation of the Brown Act is where people say, "Well, Jerry, we didn't take any action." And I go, well, that wasn't necessary. Just hearing or discussing is sufficient if a majority of you were present to have created an agenda posting requirement. Right? So, what are some exceptions though to the definition of a meeting? Um, you can attend a public conference of general interest, but for you that might most typically be one of the two statewide charter school association conferences, for example. Um, but it could be other things. you know, there could be other education conferences that might be relevant. Um, attendance of a majority

032view at some other public agency's public meeting. Now, where that would normally come up for a charter school is when you one of your charter petitions comes up for renewal or when, you know, you've got a situation where a granting agency is noticing you of its intent to revoke a charter. you know, if you ended up in either of those two scenarios, um the next most common thing might be appearing at a city or county board of supervisors relating to um some sort of facilities, you know, issue like you're needing to get a conditional use permit approved or something like that um so that you can occupy a new facility. Um so those might be opportunities where a majority of you might be there. Why is that not a problem? because they've posted an agenda

033and they've told members of the public, hey, we're considering the approval of GCC's facility at 123 Main Street, you know, and granting a conditional use permit for them to be there. So, they've put the public on notice. So, the public already knows if they're concerned about that issue, they can go to the city council meeting that night and they can hear about that and they can weigh in, right? So, the fact that a majority of you happen to also be there doesn't require us to do another notice. It's like, well, no, we the public's already on notice. Okay. Attendance of the majority at a purely social or ceremonial gathering. Now, this happens all the time this time of year, right? Holiday parties, if you sit on a board long enough, you're probably going to become

034friends with your board colleagues and you might invite them to your Christmas party. Um, you might also see them obviously at graduation, uh, because this is a school. So, that's a very common ceremonial activity for a school. Um, and no problem. You can all be there and you can all sit next to each other in the front row of the graduation ceremony. There's no problem with that. Um, so long as you don't talk about school business. Now, that's the that's the that caveat applies to all three of these, right? So, um, one time I had a situation where unfortunately a student had passed away and the board showed up because it was a small school community. Uh, no problem that they were at the funeral. The problem was when they were at the back of

035the room talking about whether to expel a student or not and then they got overheard talking about that at the back of the room of the funeral and then that created a brown act problem for us. Just because they talked about school business while they were there. They could have all been there that wasn't the problem. Right? So just be mindful if you're in one of those locations don't talk about school business while you're there. Right? Now committees. Uh, as a general rule, uh, all committees are going to have to follow the Brown Act. There is one very, very, very narrow exception, right, that we're going to talk about. But as a general rule, um, committees, whether they're permanent or temporary, whether they're decision-m or advisory, and whether they're created by the charter document itself

036or some sort of ordinance or resolution or board action, um, uh, they're going to be covered. Okay. A standing committee also has to comply with the Brown Act even if it's an advisory committee. Um so uh you have to be mindful of standing committees as well generally being covered. And so those you'll see what is a standing committee there on the on the right hand side of the slide uh is your definition. You can refer back to these definitions later. Um but um what are non-down act committees? While there is an exception of if it's an advisory committee and it's composed solely of members of the board, it's less than a quorum of the board and it is not a standing committee. If it meets all four of those, that's the one very very narrow

037exception where that committee does not need to post an agenda. [snorts] Now, what I can tell you in practice is that when people try to take advantage of this, um, often times where they mess up is that they include non-board members on the committee itself. Um, and they do that because they feel like, well, we need input of from students or we need input from parents or we need input. That's fine, but now don't try and call it a non-bin Act committee. You just, you're going to need to post an agenda, right? Um, so, um, so I always think about it this way. I always turn it around on the client and I always say, "Well, what what is it you need to accomplish and whose input do you need?" And if you need the

038input of those other stakeholder groups, by all means, put them on the committee. You just need to post the agenda, right? So, yeah, Mark, >> board that are non voting members, is that considered to be a standing committee? So um so if you have now are we talking about a committee that has no board members at all or that has a mix? >> No, it's it's just it's an advisory board. In other words, these are people that come together, think about new plans or ideas or they're giving input, but they're not building members. They're not building board members. They're just an advisory board. >> So they're an advisory board and they give advice to who? >> To to the board. >> To the board then. Yes, that kind of a committee if they're giving advice

039to the board about matters of school business is going to be subject to the Brown Act. >> So, um so you want to think about um one way that some schools and the reason I asked you advisory to who is because some schools have advisory committees that are advisory to the administration and that can be different, right? And so you have to think about who are they advising, right? May make a difference in the answer. Yeah, Jack, if you have an an executive committee of let's say two board members that is advising the superintendent, does that as a standing committee, do you need to have that to be posted? And it doesn't only has two board members. It's not a majority >> because it's a standing committee. Yes, it should be posted. And the reason

040why is because if you go back here, a standing committee has to comply with the Brown Act. Even if it's just an advisory committee, even if it's composed solely of members of the board who are less than a quorum. So even though it's less than a quorum, even though it's just board members, even though it's just advisory, if it's a standing committee, then by nature of it being a standing committee, the Brown Act requirements apply. Now, it's a standing committee if it has some continuing subject matter jurisdiction or if it has a meeting schedule fixed by the charter or the board's formal action. Okay. Um and so, um executive committees um we have many clients who have executive committees. They post their agendas. That's perfectly fine. Um and uh again, no problem with executive committees.

041Now, one thing about executive committees that sometimes leads to, which is not about the Brown Act compliance to be clear, but just an additional pro tip for you, is that you should define what that committee's role is. In other words, is it truly just giving advice and the CEO can do something different uh or is it providing direction to the CEO in between board meetings? And I have some clients who have executive committees in both of those kinds of camps, right? And so it's it's important to just define that so everyone has a common understanding what that committee is going to do. >> Okay. A follow-up question. If you post an agenda, do you have to televis the meeting like we're doing today? >> So if you operate charter schools in more than one county,

042there is a requirement for you to u video and audio record those meetings. If all of the board members are physically present here, right, then there is not going to be a projection requirement, right, as there would be if one of you was somewhere else. But if one of you was at some other location, you'll see that I'm going to come to a set of rules around that in a in a few minutes. Um, and and that that that will be an exception to this general notion. So yes, record but not necessarily broadcast. >> Okay. So let me summarize that. If you have a standing executive committee, you posted the agenda, you need to record the meeting, but you don't necessarily need it doesn't have a quorum. You don't need to broadcast it. So um

043Okay. So now that I'm now you you've layered on another piece here. So let me just make sure that I back I guess. Okay. Um you almost got it right. Let me just make sure that I I uh I summarize for you. There's a slightly different rule for the full board than for a committee. Okay. So, for the full board, the full board is going to record. Okay. Both audio and visual, but is not required to broadcast that unless one of the board members is somewhere other than where you all the rest of the board is. In other words, where we've got a teleconference scenario going on. In the case of the executive committee, okay, or some other standing committee, they are not the legislative body of the agency. Okay? So, in that case, that

044committee is going to post the agenda. That's that's going to be its requirement. post the agenda unless one of its members is participating from somewhere else other than the physical location or the remaining executive committee members have gathered. Well, I am confused now. Um, let's just come back to the meeting we're having today. All the board members are here, >> correct? >> Do we need to broadcast this meeting today? >> You do not need to broadcast. You simply need to audio and visual record it. >> So in the future our board meetings we do not need to broadcast them. >> Correct. >> If all the board members are present. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> I want to talk a little bit more about the executive committee. >> Yes. >> Um and the function there

045too. And I guess I'm going to try to relate it to what we do if that's appropriate. >> Yes. >> When we meet to talk about the board agenda that's coming up, two of us meet with the staff, superintendent, the administrative assistant. And do we need to do anything differently than just have our meeting, set the agenda coming up, and get it get it ready for posting and all of that? The executive committee just needs to post its agenda and needs to describe what it's going to be talking about. So on that agenda might be something like agenda setting for the board meeting. Okay. >> So So no recording and no >> not for the not for the committee. No. Um, Jack, I'm going to come back to you with one one more little caveat

046added on to the answer to your piece, which is that each of your school resource centers, okay, and sites is designated under the law a teleconference location. Members of the public have the right to go to any of those school sites or resource centers and participate in your meeting from those locations. There is a requirement to broadcast to those locations. But there is not a requirement that you provide a general zoom link to the whole world. >> So it's just to the sites and the resource centers. And the reason I want to offer that is because we have some clients who have said, "Jerry, it's just too much trouble for us to figure out a direct link. We the the technology to create a direct link to 40 locations that we operate. It's just too

047much money. It's too complicated. We don't have the IT staff for that. It's easier for us just to use Zoom. Can we do that?" Sure, you can use Zoom. And as long as you're doing the Zoom, can we just put that on the board agenda? Sure. if you want to. And that's an example where you might be providing greater public access because now you're not just providing that direct access to each resource center and site location, but you're providing it wherever that person, whatever that stakeholder may be working or living. Does that clarification help? That may be why you may be doing something a little more. >> Okay. Can I follow up again just to summarize what I thought you said about the a standing committee? A standing committee needs to post. A standing committee

048needs to record. A standing committee does not need to record. Just needs to post invite people to its meeting. >> Oh, and invite people to the meeting. >> Well, because it's an agenda. They posted the agenda and so members of the public have the right to come. So Jerry, here's just this is tonight. >> Uh this is just kind of a followup with a standing board meeting. So for instance, if I can't attend physically to at the board meeting, but I want to participate. I think we have something on our books that we allow that twice in a fiscal year. Is that right, Jason? >> I believe so. This is uh for emergency reasons. >> For emergency reasons. Yeah. >> We'll come to some special rules on that which actually just changed again >> for

049January 1. Okay. So, >> some changes it. It's just something it's happened to me where I can't attend there, but I want to participate. >> I'm going to give you I'm going to give you options. it is allowed and I'm going to give you some options on how uh and so um and there's and there's um there's some which don't require any special findings I'm going to say special you know special circumstances and there's some that require special circumstances but the rules are a little different and so we're going to go over both paths uh in in a few minutes. Yep. All right. So um serial meetings are prohibited. Uh this is anytime I'm this basically the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do, right? This is where a majority of you outside of

050a meeting where you've posted an agenda use a series of communications of any kind, whether it's directly or through an intermediary. Who is that? Right. Well, Bruce knows he can't call a majority of the trustees. So, he's like, "Hey, you're my brother. Can you go and carry the following message to Lily and Harry and Mark and Jack? Here's the message. You know, okay, that's improper. Now, he's turned his brother into an intermediary. It's essentially someone who is not who is going to delay deliver exactly the message that he is personally prohibited from delivering. You can't do that, right? because that would defeat the whole purpose of the law if somebody could send their spouse or send their brother to deliver the exact message they can't deliver themselves. Right? So you can't use a series of

051communications of any kind directly or through intermediaries to discuss, deliberate or take action on any item of charter school business. Right? So this is again exactly the opposite of what you're supposed to be doing. Where where should you be having those communications? At a board meeting. If you have things you want to talk about with your board colleagues, by all means do it at a board meeting. Right. One other uh sort of limit that that kind of often comes up and it this actually applies to Jason and uh the cabinet and other staff of the school. You might have questions that come up as you read your agenda packet and you might, for example, be like, "Well, gosh, I don't really understand this budget line item. Why did this go up 30% versus last year?"

052And you might think, well, I want to reach out and call the fiscal person and ask, you know, why is there such a big discrepancy from last year to this year before I vote to approve the budget, right? That's perfectly okay for you to do that. Um, in fact, it's wonderful because one, it may be that you caught a mistake, [laughter] right? And it's great to correct that. Um two um it could be um that um there's some good reason and you need to understand what that good reason is why there's a change of that significance, right? Um and the staff can answer all those questions for you outside of a meeting. That's fine. And they can do that even if all five of you separately and individually had that same question after you read

053the agenda packet. The only thing the chief business officer can't do is they can't say during that conversation, I know Bruce shares your concern and wants to make a change on that also. That sharing of another board member's comment or position on that same issue is prohibited. Staff cannot share that. They can answer your question and they can do that five separate times in five separate calls or five separate emails perfectly fine, but you just the staff just can't share where any other board member sits on that issue. And the reason why is because obviously if we allowed that sort of sharing, it would facilitate the whole board coming to agreement outside of a meeting. And we don't want that. We want you to come to that agreement to make a change at a board

054meeting where members of the public are here and they're able to hear the question. They're able to hear, "Oh, that was a mistake or here's why or whatever." And and that that whole conversation occurs here at a board meeting with all five of you present where members of the public can hear that conversation in real time. Okay. So, that's the theory behind why that's the case. Uh now we're going to get to this question of um the uh resource um you know uh of these teleconference locations. Right? So in your case uh you are in this last category. You're an entity that manages two or more charter schools that are not located in the same county. uh which means you always have to meet within the physical boundaries of the county in which the greatest

055number of students enrolled in those schools uh reside. So it's a residency of students requirement. That's what it's tied to. Okay? Not which school they attend. And we've had some charter networks get in trouble over that because the residency was different than the school of the county that they actually attended. Um, so for example, you might have 500 students who live in Yolo County but who drive over the bridge and attend school here in Sacramento. They don't count as Sacramento County for this purpose because their residency is Yolo County. That's that's sort of the trick here, right? Um, a two-way teleconference is uh present at each school site and resource center, right? as we discussed and you have to audio uh and video recorder both the governing board meetings and post the recordings on each

056charter school's internet website. So um so there is that posting requirement following the recording uh taking place. Okay. So, um, and again, as I said, a lot of charter networks handle this by, um, by also just providing a Zoom link for members of the public because that's easier for them to manage than managing the technology of a closed circuit link with all of the resource centers, especially as you get bigger, that just becomes harder and harder and more costly. So now we're going to get uh Mark to your question about remote participation in meetings by board members and the different ways that that can occur. So by far the easiest way is this way. Um so this has been in the brown neck for years and years and years. I mean it goes all the

057way back right even when you know um when we were doing this work 20some years ago this was in the brown neck then too. Um, all votes have to be taken by roll call. So, what that means is that your staff or the board chair will call each board member's name and wait for them to say yes, no, or abstain. Right? The agenda has to be posted at all teleconference locations. So, what that means is that if you're going to call from the Hilton in Milwaukee, that's fine, but [snorts] you're going to have to have what? An agenda posted at the Hilton in Milwaukee. Okay? and it has to be identified in the notice and agenda of the meeting. So that address in the Hilton in Milwaukee has to be there in addition to this

058address on Arnold Avenue at the top of the agenda. Okay. Um now also members of the public have the right to address the board directly at each teleconference location. So if a member of the public happened to be in Milwaukee and thought this is convenient, I'm also at this business conference in Milwaukee. I'm just going to go to Mark's room and I'll participate in the GCC board meeting from there. They would have every right to do that. So, just know that that's a theoretical possibility. Obviously, the further you are away from Sacramento, the less likely you're going to have a random member of the public showing up at your room to participate in the meeting, but it could happen. Um, when does this happen? I will tell you it happens when um when I've seen

059it occur at least in the past is it has happened where someone's home or office is more convenient to them than the board meeting site and they think that board meeting is occurring right around rush hour. You know, I'd rather go to Mark's office in Elk Grove because I live in Elkrove than drive all the way to Arnold Avenue in rush hour because that means I would have to take a lot of time off work to be able to be there on time, right? Um, and so I had this happen, for example, to one of my board members uh at another school who was at home and recovering from uh a cancer surgery. And um for years, the school had had no one attend any of their meetings. I mean literally no member of the

060public attended their meetings for years. Of course, at this meeting, uh, this was the meeting where something controversial arose and no one even knew it was going to be a controversial meeting, but it involved a personnel matter that happened after the agenda was posted. And uh, and it created a flurry of activity because parents were mad and they were going to be heard and they were going to be heard at this meeting. And so they decided to show up. And where did they show up? At the board members's house. because if they had gone on to the meeting location, it was another 45 minutes on a windy mountain road in the rain. So, they thought, well, we're just all going to stop at the board member's house. That's convenient. Uh not realizing she was recovering

061from cancer and all this. And so, of course, this created quite a mess because, you know, we she wasn't prepared to receive people. She was in her pajamas and, you know, it was just it was quite a nightmare scenario, right? But uh so just keep in mind when you utilize this provision that you have to be willing to let members of the public in and so in case right that that actually somebody actually did show up. >> Yeah. Tech Jerry is there a limit on the number of times you can use this? >> There is no limit on the number of times you can use this particular what I'm going to call path one. Okay. This one you can use an unlimited number of times. Okay. What we're going to talk about in a moment

062is path two, which is relates to emergency or just cause participation in the meeting. And the rules for that do limit the number of times you can use it. And I think that was what Jason was referring to earlier was someone wanting to use those rules to participate in a meeting. >> Okay. But let me just kind of summarize this one. So a board member could use this unlimited number of times. They could use it at the remote site. >> They could use it for every meeting at a remote site if they wanted to do so as long as all these provisions were met. >> As long as they had a majority of quorum at the site under jurisdiction. >> Okay, >> that is correct. That is correct. Okay, so this is path one, right?

063So, um, and and so a lot of flexibility in terms of numbers of times you can use it. It's just really that quorum in the school's jurisdiction and making sure the address is listed, making sure the agenda is really posted there, the whole posting period, all those pieces, right? But as long as you do these six things, yes, unlimited, >> jury, and you you can be a voting member being remote. >> You absolutely can. Yes, you're a voting member. >> Okay. Now, in fact, I'm going to tell you something else, right? That relates to that because what do people sometimes try to do that is a problem? They're running late to the meeting. They're on the I-5 freeway and they want to call in to the meeting on their drive there. Now, here's the problem.

064Did we post the agenda on your car window 72 hours ago? [snorts] Did we What What's the location? you know, I'm supposed to I'm supposed to like parachute in like Captain America into your car, you know, on the I5. I'm supposed to magically know where you are and drop from the plane into your passenger seat. Like, it doesn't work, right? So, so the one issue we have with board members voting is when these rules haven't been followed, right? And somebody's trying to call in and and still participate and still vote in the meeting. It's that's problematic. Okay. So, um, because we're now on December 9th, [laughter] the reality is your next board meeting is going to apply under these new rules um that were part of Senate Bill 707. Uh, these amendments become effective technically

065on January 1, 2026. Technically >> board meeting this afternoon. So, this >> so this this applies Yeah. Not not at the board meeting that we're at presently, but your next your >> Well, my next one is at 1:45 today. >> Oh, okay. But that's part of this. It's part of today. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But your next I'm talking about >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. January. Okay. >> Right. It's going to occur in January, right? >> Okay. >> Uh because you're not going to want to meet by Christmas if you can possibly help it. Uh [gasps] so um so these will be the rules. So I just put these rules in because this is going to be what to think about, right? I don't want to confuse you by putting in rules that you're not

066actually going to use in the next 20 days. Okay. Um, so this one allows relaxed video conferencing requirements for members for what we call just cause. And previously, you know, there was just cause and emergency. And there were two different reasons why you might qualify. The legislature has now said we're dropping that emergency word. All the things that were emergencies under the old rules are now part of just cause. We're going to call it all one thing, which thankfully is at least somewhat cleaner and clearer. Um, it allows video conferencing without any obligation to identify the teleconferencing location on the agenda or to allow public access to the teleconferencing location. So, those are the two reasons why somebody might want to utilize the just cause provisions instead of the first set of rules that we

067just talked about, right? Because um if it's too late, if the agenda's already been posted and you realize 24 hours in advance, [snorts] whoops, I'm not going to be able to be at the board meeting because I'm flying somewhere. My mom's sick and I need to fly to Arkansas. I'll be there. Well, okay, but the agenda is already posted. And guess what? It wasn't posted in Arkansas 72 hours in advance, and we didn't list the address in Arkansas 72 hours in advance. So, I'm sorry your mom's sick, but we can't accommodate you under path one. So, we have to look here. Is there a reason what how we could get you to qualify under path two for just cause right now? Now there's a number of in in exchange for those two additional pieces of

068flexibility that might help you in a last minute scenario. There's a bunch of other rules that that apply only here. Right? So the first is the member has to participate through both audio and visual technology. So not just a telephone. That won't do. A speaker phone won't do. We've got to have a video link to you. Um, it's also only allowable if a quorum of the remaining members participate in person from a single physical location. Right now, that's probably not a problem for you because you traditionally do come together at a single physical location. But if you had a circumstance where you had multiple members, right, needing different things, this becomes a problem. So, let's say that Bruce had notified Jason 72 hours in advance. I'm gonna be at the Hilton in Milwaukee, Jason. So,

069I need you to post, you know, make sure that it gets posted there. I need that address listed on the agenda. That's where I'm gonna call in from. Well, guess what? Now, Mark, you know, finds out his mom's sick last minute 24 hours in advance. And he's like, Jason, I need to and he's going to say, "What?" Well, let me count. I have to count. Bruce, that's okay because that's only one. So, I've still got the remaining three here at a single physical location. So yes, Mark, we can accommodate you also. But if a third board member reaches out to Jason, that's when we're going to have a problem because let's say Jack reaches out and says, "I'm sick. I just can't make it to this meeting." Now we've only got two. Now we don't

070have a quorum here physically. And therefore, what? We can't grant Mark's request, you know, uh to participate in the meeting under path two because we don't have a quorum here at a single physical location because Bruce had a pre-planned trip and we knew about it and then Jack got sick and so now we're down to two. That's not a quorum here at a single physical location, right? So what would we do? We would have to deny Mark's request unfortunately. We said we're sorry. We'll see you at the next meeting that we can't accommodate that. Right. And so we've got um so we've got that's why when you got a five member board, you have to do the math to see does it does it work? Is everyone else if everyone else is going to be

071there? It's fine. But if we have different people doing needing different things, it's complicated and staff has to sort of sort that out to figure out can we can we make the math work, right? To allow someone to do a path too. Some other things, right? Um, just cause means the things on this list and nothing else. >> Okay. So, um, now there's a lot of things on this list. A child care or caregiving need of all of those different family members. Uh, maybe you've got a contagious illness that prevents you from attending in person, which by the way is not just COVID, although that was its original context. It could be any sort of contagious illness will do. um a need related to a physical or mental disability not otherwise accommodated. Um we had

072a circumstance like this where somebody had a board member had leg surgery and couldn't drive temporarily. Um and so we said here, boom, need related to a physical disability not otherwise accommodated. Yes, we can accommodate you under path two. We're going to count you. Um travel while an official business either of this school, right, or some other state or local agency. So maybe you're an employee of the state or you're an employee of a local agency. You're traveling as part of your day job for that. Maybe you're at the League of Cities conference because you're the assistant city manager. Not a problem. That will qualify you there. Uh travel for another local agency. Uh you've got some immunompromised family member uh that requires the member to participate remotely because we're concerned that you might be

073a conveyor of a disease to that immunompromised person. Okay. Um, we've got a physical or family medical emergency. Okay, that prevents a member from attending in person. Or we've got a military service obligation. That's something new that got added as part of this. That was not part of the prior law at all. So, that's a new thing. Um, but if you hit one of those things, you've got just cause. Okay. We talked about the meeting caps and Jack, this comes back to the meeting caps. So, under path two, there are meeting caps and they're here on this slide. So, you can refer to this. Um, two meetings per year if you meet uh once a month or less. Um, five meetings per year if you meet twice a month or more, right? Seven meetings per

074year if the body meets three times a month. So, it really just depends how many meetings do you have as a board is going to set what your cap is. It'll either be two, five, or seven depending on how many meetings you have per year as a board. This gets back to the definition of an emergency for a family member. Assume you had a a spouse who was just seriously ill or just ill. Would that be a definition for emergency? >> Well, I think at very least it's going to it's going to be a caregiving need of a spouse. So, I think it would fit just cause because even if it even if it wasn't a medical emergency, if the person is sufficiently sick that they require your care, it's a caregiving need under bullet

075one in my view. >> Thank you. >> Um, note that some of the language here is a little different than what it was before also. Okay. So, the as the legislature merged these things, they also tweaked some of the language throughout. So this is an opportunity for you to sort of realign your policies and procedures to to the new rules. Okay. Other requirements. Uh the board member has to notify the board. This is path two only. A board member has to notify the board at the earliest opportunity possible including at the start of a regular meeting of their need to participate remotely for just cause including a general description of the circumstances reason. In other words, the reasons why you need to appear remotely at that particular meeting. Uh the meeting minutes now have to

076identify the members who participated remotely. Uh the legal provision under which they're participating remotely and the just cause reason for their participation. So we'd have to say the board member cited child caregiving need or the member cited a family medical emergency or you know we'd have to say in the minutes what that reason was. Okay. So this is path two. Those were not part of the prior oh the meeting minutes piece was not part of the prior law. So that's a new thing also right u members of the public also have to be provided a means to remotely hear and visually observe the meeting and remotely address the governing board right meaning there has to be a two-way audiovisisual platform or a two-way teleconic service and live webcasting simultaneously right if you're not going to

077use something like Zoom that has both audio and visual built in um there are also um requirements ments that you put on the agenda itself notice for how the public can participate in your meeting. Right? So if you ever intend to have or allow a board member to participate under path two, you would have to print on every single agenda the means by which the public can participate in your meeting. Otherwise, when someone calls you and says, "I want to use path two," you're going to say, "Sorry, we can't because we didn't post language on every single agenda just in case someone might need to use it." Okay. Um, and then the member has to publicly disclose before any action is taken if anyone 18 years of age or older is present in the room

078and the general nature of your relationship with that person. [snorts] Um, why? I have no idea why. It's stupid. It is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Um, I don't know what led staffer at 2 in the morning thought this was a good idea. I mean, it's just like why? If I'm in the hospital with my mom, I really have to tell you that this is my mom's nurse and her name's Julie. And that's the nature of my relationship is she's my mom's nurse. Why does the public need to know this? I don't know. But it's part of the law. And what's frustrating is I could show up here at the meeting. I could sit in one of these chairs and I don't have to tell you my name. >> I don't have to

079tell you why I'm here. I don't have to tell you anything. Right? But if I happen to be in the room with a board member when one of you uses Path 2 for an audio video visual teleconference, you're going to have to tell who I am, what my name is, what the nature of your relationship with me is. And um you know, I was imagining there might be some awkward circumstances, but so far there haven't been any awkward ones. It's just been medical things. It's just been weird, you know, because it's like who cares? All right. SP77 did another thing. They created a path three for the first time. Right. Path three now is you've got a some special rules for accommodating board members with disabilities. If you have a board member with a disability

080that precludes their attendance in person, they may be accommodated by allowing them to participate in the meeting remotely. And interestingly, disability related remote participation counts toward physical quorum as though that person were in person at the physical meeting location. So they help you count toward quorum. Um, also it has to be both audio and visual technology unless a physical condition necessitates off- camerara participation. So, um, it's a little bit of an awkward conversation now, like what is your nature of your disability and why can you not use visual technology? I don't know. These are going to be awkward conversations, but um, but it is part of the law here. So, um, so this is a path three um, uh, that can be utilized to allow a board member to participate um, audio visual. Okay. Um,

081and if that person does that, then guess what? Just like the path two, you have to disclose if there's someone 18 years of age or older [laughter] in the room with you and what the general nature of your relationship with them might be. So, okay. Uh path four, okay, is we also have authorization uh during a proclaimed state of emergency um where the governing board, that's you, meets for the purpose of determining whether meeting in person would present imminent health risks or you previously made that determination. And then you continue to make those findings every 45 days that you have reconsidered the circumstances of the state of or local emergency and that that state or local emergency continues to directly impact the ability of you to meet safely in person. So obviously the intent of

082this uh originally was COVID, right? But it's been it's been expanded a little bit now. And so because we did have um a number of both school districts and charter schools who were impacted in the fires in LA and previously a number the school both the school district and several charter schools in Paradise, California during the fires there. And so I think there was a recognition by many members of the legislature that hey there there actually kind of is a need beyond just COVID for this. It's like there are circumstances where a state or local emergency because of maybe excessive smoke or or something else uh maybe it's just not possible to meet in person within the jurisdiction. So uh local emergency is defined as a condition of extreme peril to persons or property proclaimed

083by the governing body of the local agency affected in accordance with the California Emergency Services Act. Um so what's interesting about this is that um charter schools are not typically deemed a local agency for these kinds of purposes. So what we assume the interpretation ultimately is probably going to be is that the city or county has to declare that emergency in the area in which your schools are operating or located and that their declaration of emergency would then be relied upon by you. That's what we how we think it will actually work probably in practice. Ah question here. So we can't have any zone meeting. >> So no fully virtual meetings like happened during COVID. Those are those are under none of the paths uh except the state or local emergency path that we just

084talked about. Okay. So there'd have to be a proclaimed state of emergency for this area where you're physically located in order to trigger any ability to to meet like that again. Okay. So, what are these notice and agenda requirements? Well, you have to post that agenda and it has to include a brief description of the items that are going to be transacted or discussed with very few exceptions. If an item is not on the agenda, the board cannot discuss it. And of course, the whole point of that is because you've just told members of the public what you were going to be talking about. And if you talk about something else, well, they might have taken time off work or arranged child care to be there if they had known you were going to talk

085about this other thing that you did not notice them about. Um, however, there are some exceptions in the law. So, I have them here for your bonus points, right? In case you ever really truly need them. Um, uh, a majority of you could determine that an emergency or dire emergency exists that requires you to take action. Okay, this is extremely rare. Uh, picture and imagine that I'm going to be before a judge trying to defend you doing this and the judge is going to say, "How many people are going to die, Mr. Simmons, if the board didn't act? How many people were going to be seriously injured if the board didn't act? How was the roof really perilously on the brink of collapsing that very afternoon, Mr. Simmons?" Like, I'm going to face a lot

086of hard questions to defend this. So, make sure that it really is truly an emergency or dire emergency. And it it truly people's health and safety was somehow dramatically at risk. So much so that you couldn't call a special meeting 24 hours later. Like it's got to be something that required that sort of immediiacy of action in order to prevent the harm. Upon a determination by uh twothirds vote of you or unanimously if less than twothirds of you are present that there's a need to take immediate action and that the need for action came to the attention of the board after the agenda was posted. Um, so, uh, this also extremely rare, right? This is not to cover, just to be really clear, a circumstance where staff forgets to put something on the agenda that

087one of you asked to have placed on the agenda. It's not to cover a forgetfulness situation. It's to cover a situation that genuinely arose after that agenda got posted. Something changed, right? Um, and now there's a need to take action. Um, or the agenda item was posted for a prior meeting of the board that occurred not more than five calendar days prior to the date action was taken on the action. And at that prior meeting, you continued the act the item to the subsequent meeting within 5 days. Now, why would this one come up? This comes up. I'll tell you exactly the scenario where this comes up. something controversial happens and you the board are so gracious because no one ever shows up really at your meetings and suddenly you have 500 people there at

088your board meeting. You look out at the crowd, you're like, "Well, I'm not going to tell them they're not going to be able to speak for more than 20 minutes. I'm going to let them go. If they have 500 people really thought it was so important, I'm going to let them speak. Maybe more than the limit, right? Maybe. And you're going to hear them out." And and Okay. So, in that sort of circumstance, you've now heard from testimony from 50 people. Let's say out of those 500 who showed up, you were so gracious, you let every one of those 50 who turned into a card speak. Okay? Well, you don't now want to hear from them again three days later when you take up the item to actually discuss and vote on it, right? Like

089you're you you don't want to hear from them again. So, what are you going to do? You're going to continue the item so that you can pick up where that conversation left off directly with board discussion and vote, right? As opposed to having to reopen the whole thing again. Okay. Now, direction to staff. Um, this is just brief direction to staff. Like somebody shows up during public comment and they've got a complaint and you say, "Jason, could you look into this and report back?" Or, "Jason, could you look into this and address that parent's concern?" You know, it's just brief, very brief, one-s sentence kind of direction. The board can give that sort of direction to staff at a board meeting. You can also provide brief responses. You can ask clarifying questions. like a clarifying

090question often that comes up at our clients meetings. What what school is it that your child attends? Because you operate multiple schools. So, it's important context for you to understand. I don't I don't have context without you telling me at least what school your kid goes to. I can't really process, you know, what you're talking about that the roof's going to cave in over there in the English classroom. I I don't know what you mean until I find out where. Right. Um announcements would be something like you know graduation ceremony next Tuesday 6:00 hope to see you all there right and then this last one identification of uh future agenda items this is not a substantive conversation about something it is just simply madame chair it's apparent to me that we need to talk about

091some revisions to the budget that we approved and so I'd like to ask that be on the agenda at the next meeting, right? It's just asking I'd like this on some future agenda. It's not a substantive conversation about why we need to change the budget or what we're going to change it to. It's just I'm asking that this be scheduled, right? And then we can return to it. >> Who's asking that? That can come from the board or the board member, not someone in the audience. >> Well, I mean, someone in the audience could, I suppose, ask during public comment, but you're not you're not obligated to honor >> honor. Okay? >> You know, necessarily, but but you may have a board member ask, and of course, you're probably going to >> be differential to

092say if somebody on the board feels we need to discuss that, well, we'll we'll find a time and we'll we'll come back to it. It doesn't mean you're going to necessarily agree with that board member substantively when the vote comes up. >> It just means a request has been made to add it to a future agenda item for conversation. And you know now you're going to just you know briefly hear that request and now you know it exist the request has been made and you can make some determination as chair in concert with Jason when when might that logically be heard >> is it with the next meeting or in two meetings you know all those kinds of logistics happen behind the scenes but it's just sort of a an opportunity where even though it's

093not on the agenda someone can ask for something to be in a future >> meeting. Okay, J. >> Jack, >> Jerry, in my prior life, I taught parliamentary law. Can I ask a question? Can I have an item tabled for a date definite? So, like the next meeting and then have that item. Then it is a continuation of the meeting that we had the people speak at, but then we would not have to have an open hearing again at the next meeting. It depends. Of course, you know that you're going to get that kind of answer from me as a lawyer, but it depends on a few factors. One is um obviously it has to be within five days that meeting. It can't be, you know, 15 days later or 30 days later, right? So

094that probably is going to make a postponement to a future meeting not feasible unless you already had a special meeting scheduled, right? um that was within the 5 days or you convince your colleagues that hey I I don't want to make this decision today because I have some good reason staff needs to do more homework whatever so I want to come back I want to call a special meeting within 5 days and I'm going to try to lobby you all to get on the same page to meet again within 5 days so that we can continue this item right and then it's a continuation of the item that was originally on the agenda not something new. And I say that because sometimes then when staff goes and does the additional research that you asked them

095to do, maybe there's a different recommendation. Maybe it needs to go in a different direction and maybe that's not what you noticed the public you were planning to talk about when at meeting number one. So, it has to truly be a a continuation of this item that you noticed people about already, right? And so, if there's some change, if all that public testimony caused you to think, well, maybe we need to go in a new direction, that's going to require a new agenda posting. >> It's intriguing. I Yes, I understand. So it's limit it's very limited but it's it's it's theoretically there in a very limited circumstance right um so uh you know it's a possibility all right so what are these agenda posting requirements uh regular meetings are 72 hours in advance special meetings

096are 24 hours in advance and I will tell you 99.9% of charter school meetings in California are one of those two Thanks. Um there is one very small thing for an emergency meeting which requires only an hour's notice and it requires you know um a a sort of not a normal natural disaster, you know, but a a sort of catastrophic natural disaster or work stoppage. You've got to have one of those two things. Work stoppage meaning like a strike, right? Um, now most charter schools don't have unions. So strikes really aren't a thing for most charter schools. Okay. So, um, but we did one time, probably 20 years ago, have a circumstance where at a particular charter school, teachers got mad about something and they walked off the job and they sat in the public

097street in front of the school to stop traffic in all directions. [laughter] Um, and that constituted um an emergency, right? Right. And the charter school board was able to convene um with that shorter notice period. Um but what I would say is I mean it's it's it's virtually never going to come up. So just be thinking in your mind 24 hours at least, right, in virtually any circumstance. Oh, Jack. Yeah. And just another question. I've always been intrigued the 72 hours. It makes some difference if it's over a holiday, a weekend, uh anything. It just has to be 72 hours. >> Any 72 hours will do. Holidays count, weekends count. School closure still counts. Doesn't matter as long as you got the 72 hours. >> Yep. All right. Where are you going to post it?

098You're going to post it in a physical location uh where if somebody rode by their bicycle at two in the morning, they could see the physical agenda posted somewhere. Um you're going to post it on the website. Um you're going to use a prominent direct link on the front page. Um, and uh, it has to be downloadable, it has to be searchable, has to be free access, obviously. Um, you're going to have that brief description that we talked about before. If you have a closed session at that particular meeting, you're going to use the safe harbor language. Um, now the safe harbor language, there is a a particular language for any reason a charter school can be in closed session. You literally cut and paste it right out of the statute and you fill in

099the blanks. So, they've made it so simple. Just cut and paste and fill in the blanks. Um, also then you have to provide verbal notice in advance of the close session that you're going into close session and why, which is just as simple as reading, you know, what what are the reasons that are printed on the agenda. And then following the close session, you make a public report of any action that's taken in close session as well as a roll call vote of every member. Right? So you would again read aloud the following board members voting yes, the following board members voting no, the following board members abstaining. And that would be listed in the minutes as a record of that closed session roll call vote. >> That is if >> If action is taken

100but if no action is taken, we go back and say no action is taken. It's just >> a matter of information. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Correct. And that often happens because for example, you know, with litigation, sometimes it goes on for two, three years, right? And there may be just updates provided to the board. Yeah. In close session like, well, we're scheduled for hearing on such and such a date. We filed a brief on such and such a date. The other side's arguing this, just FYI, you know, things like that. It may just be these updates, right, that that occur and there's no action, >> right, >> by the board, but we're providing you information or someone else on one of the other appropriate items why you can be in close session. It's just

101providing the board information. >> But go back quickly to the action if action is taken. You said a roll call vote is necessary. And then I'm reporting out I have to say board members >> who voted yes by name. by name >> who voted no voting out. >> Yeah. Not just the vote was 3 to2 or the vote was 5. >> Okay. >> Right. We want to know who specifically voted each way on all close session items >> and we want that recorded in the minutes. >> Okay. >> And that's important for you all as board members too because in the event and I know it's rare, right? But in the event you ended up in a circumstance where maybe you got outvoted on something that was of consequence, >> you would want people to

102know how you cast your vote because you probably cast your vote for a good reason. You know why you thought differently than your colleagues and you just want to make sure that you have an opportunity to be heard in that respect that you disagreed, right? And the same on the other side. If you cast a vote yes, you probably want people to know, you know, here's where I stood on that issue. >> But if all of us voted yes, then I have to say Mark Anderson voted yes, Jack Turner voted yes, and all five and name all five of us. >> Yes. And why would I do that? Because sometimes board members leave. So if all you have is the minutes and at the beginning of the meeting all five of you were listed as

103present, the assumption is all five of you voted yes in closed session at the end of the meeting, right? Unless what? Unless the report out of close session reflects there were only four yes votes. >> And then what that signals to the public is Bruce wasn't there, right? Bruce wasn't there for that vote. That's why it's 4-0 with the following people voting. Yeah, it's not. And and so what sometimes causes confusion is that charter school chairs will say something like the vote was unanimous. >> Yeah. >> Well, the vote was unanimous is different because now I don't know that Bruce was absent. >> I might assume because I read at the start of the meeting all five were present. I'm going to assume all five voted yes. >> Right? And so that's that's just that

104distinction can be helpful in that circumstance. I usually do roll call vote for everything just about by names. Yes. Now when it's reported back in the minutes, Mark Anderson voted yes, Bruce Mandri voted no, whatever. So that has to be recorded for all of the votes or not. >> Um so for anything for which a roll call vote is required, I would record it in the minutes. Um, now not everything requires a roll call vote. But for example, if you're using if someone's using teleconference procedures, a roll call vote is required. >> In which case, I think a roll call vote should be recorded in the minutes. And here, um, the close session requirement is that you report out the roll call vote or abstension of every member. And so I think the expectation would

105be that the minutes would reflect um, a vote by member. Yeah. Bruce, >> close session. There's always in my mind a question of what is action, you know, direct to do something that's not formal action, what is a formal action? >> Yeah. Well, uh, we don't have a ton of case law on this, um, which, uh, it's certainly a gray area, right? Um, so usually my rule of thumb is, um, to report something general if um, if action was taken and it's a gray area. So, for example, I would rather report out the board provided direction to legal counsel on a matter of anticipated litigation. Period. >> Not the board directed Jerry to go offer 600,000 to the plaintiff in this case, right? We don't want to do that. Um, so we don't want to

106over disclose, right? But if there truly was direction given, you can say the board gave direction to legal counsel on a matter of anticipated litigation. Period. The vote was 3 to2 with the following board members voting yes, the following board members voting no, the following board members abstaining, right? That would be the report out. And then it's clear that something happened. There was some direction, right? But the members of the public aren't going to know the attorney client privileged piece of what that instruction specifically was, but they'll know that there was something there was some direction provided, right? Um, and that can be important sometimes in signaling something to the other side, right? Um, because sometimes there might be a question, well, does do I have authority to settle this? And I'll say, yes, the

107board gave me authority. Well, Jerry, I don't see anything in the minutes that says they ever took action. At what meeting did they take action to give you authority? where at least if there's some general report out the direction was given to the legal council on a matter of anticipated litigation I can say well on December uh 10th and you'll see in the in the report out of closed session direction was provided to legal council on matter of anticipated litigation that was what we're talking about right now that's the direction I was provided I was authorized to settle this with you for X does that make sense it can be helpful in a circumstance like that where there's some question about you know authority or something like that. But I wouldn't you you obviously also

108like you want to preserve confidentiality obviously with regard to employment issues and student issues. You're never going to reveal people's names in a report out. So even if you say expel a student, you're never going to say that student's name, right? You're just going to say the board voted to expel a student. You're not gonna you're not going to reveal confidential stuff. Jack. Yeah. >> Okay. Madame President, can I have a point of personal privilege and request a break for about three minutes? >> I think we can do that. Uh we would ask the speaker if >> of course >> point where you can >> Sure. Absolutely. >> Come back. I want >> talk about extension just because you mentioned a word. So >> yes. Okay. Absolutely. >> All right. Those who need to take

109a Are we ready to go? Okay. You said you wanted to come back, Madam Chair, to a question about abstensions that you had. Um when someone says is that the same as a no vote? >> Not necessarily. >> Not necess Okay. >> And so it's going to depend right on whether it is something that requires a certain percentage of yes votes in which case it may have the effect of a no vote only in the sense that it's not a yes. Right? So, for example, when I said that under that one provision of the Brown Act, it requires a twothirds vote, >> well, twothirds vote um of five, right? And so, if someone is not voting yes, it's basically the same as a no. It counts essentially the same as a no because it's not

110a yes. You're they're not helping you to get to the twothirds yes that is required, right? Um so, there can be circumstances like that. Um similarly if there is a majority vote right and it it turns out that that person's abstension means there are not a majority. So if all five of you show up and one person abstains and the remaining two split two and two where you don't have a majority. So in that sense the person's vote although it wasn't a no it really counts as a no in the sense that you don't have three. neither side has three, right, to either deny or or to approve. And so in that circumstance, that tie vote leads to the motion failing because there are not three yes votes, right? So um so it can sort

111of work into that effect in certain circumstances just depending on how the remaining members are voting. Um but if the remaining four are voting yes, it doesn't matter. >> Yeah. >> Right. Because that one member abstaining doesn't change that yes we are proceeding because we do have >> yeah before >> four votes right so it really depends how the remaining members vote when you have a person abstaining. All right next up executive compensation. Uh so um anytime that you and the board are going to be uh voting to um approve a contract or change in ex uh compensation, I I should really I'm presuming that a contract would have a change in compensation is why I say that. Um uh then you have to approve that at a regular meeting, not a special meeting of

112the board. And you have to report the salary or if you're placing someone on a salary schedule, you have to report, you know, this is the the step and column that this person is being placed at and the number there right now is this, right? Um as well as the cost of benefits um orally in open session. Okay. Um and for you, this applies not just to your CEO, right? Um because the first three are all Jason, right? the executive director, CEO, superintendent. Okay? But it also applies to department heads, right? And so for you, because you have a larger organization, you have a greater number of people that this rule applies to than a typical charter school would. Um because most charter schools are really small and they may only have one administrator. So

113they may not have any department heads at their school, right? Um so prior to board action, uh to approve, um you have to exercise due diligence. uh by reviewing comparable compensation uh to ensure compliance with IRS restrictions on excess compensation for nonprofit executives. Um and this is a little different than the school district world because we're a nonprofit. And so as a result, we have to comply with these nonprofit rules, not just with um you know, sort of the the school district world rules that apply there. [snorts] Um so um this is not a big deal. It was put in place by um the legislature following a debacle at a city down in Southern California where there was truly excessive compensation being provided to all of the senior city officials. Um and these were being

114approved at special meetings at random hours of the day and night. Uh and so that's why all these particulars sort of came into place. Um, the theory behind it is shine a bright light, uh, force this sort of action to happen at a meeting where people are likely to be there and hopefully it will shame people out of doing million-doll contracts for people and stuff like this. Um, in practice, this really hasn't been an issue in our space because most charter schools can't afford a million-dollar contracts even if they wanted to, right? Um, all right. Um votes of the board uh are uh are public, right? Um during the meeting um and your board minutes should include all material motions and votes, including motions that fail. So what are the public's rights? Uh well, they

115have six special rights that they have anytime they're at one of your noticed meetings. They have the right to provide public testimony, and they can do that on items that are on your agenda. they also have the special privilege of being able to comment on things that are not on your agenda um that relate to the charter school in some way. Um all of that subject to time limits that are reasonable that you set. And so most charter schools have either two or three minutes per public speaker. Um so that's set by you. It just has to be reasonable. Um they have the right to tape or broadcast your meetings. And in the old days when I started practicing law, it looked like the camera you see on the picture. Uh because if somebody showed

116up to tape a broadcast, that was a TV news crew. That's who that was. But you know, we had this little transition when all of us got these phones with cameras on them. And during COVID, you know, when there was all the controversy of masking, no masking, vaccines, no vaccines, all of that stuff. Um, what I saw a lot of is stakeholders, especially parents, filming on their phones and then broadcasting onto social media charter school board meetings and things that charter school board meeting members were saying at these meetings about all of those controversial topics during COVID. So, I bring that up to say um just be aware now even if there's not one of those really big cameras staring in your face, but that doesn't mean that someone in the audience might not be

117taping what you're saying. And so, just be thoughtful anytime you're at a board meeting, you know, that someone might record and they might broadcast you and it might end up on the evening news, even if they're just taping it on the iPhone. Well, they still have that and they can certainly send that to NBC News, right? And so just just be mindful is all I'm saying, right? Uh you can have no conditions of attendance. So what this means is you can't require someone to be a voter. You can't require them to be a resident of u you can't require them to be a parent. You can't, you know, it's just if they're a human being and they have a pulse, they have a right to be in your meeting. Um and they have a right

118to sit through it and they have a right to comment or exercise any of these other rights that we're talking about here. Um non-discriminatory facilities. This one's pretty obvious, right? like you can't discriminate against anyone based on a protected class in terms of admission to a facility. Where does this come up in real life? Well, this comes up in real life is when a board member says, "I want a teleconference from my house and I've got stairs in front because now that is a facility for purposes of this meeting and I need to have wheelchair access to your living room, right? so that that member of the public can participate in the meeting from your living room where you're teleconferencing from. That's where this comes up in real life and people don't think about, you

119know, but it's disability access. That's where this comes up. So, just be mindful of that. Members of the public have the right to copies of your agendas and other public writings. Uh what are public writings? Those are your agenda packet for open session matters, right? Are public writings. So my presentation today is a public writing now because it's been provided to members of the board and the minute it's been provided to members of the board, it's a public writing and members of the public have the right to have a copy. They have a right to see what I wrote on the slide, you know, if anyone were to ask for it. You also have to provide double the time for public testimony to people who use uh an interpreter. Um, so if they come to

120you and they're speaking Spanish and they need a translator, then they get double the time so that there is an equal opportunity for their comments and remarks to be heard. All right. Um, now we're going to move on to some special rights of the board chair um that were in SP 1100. >> Um, oh, she has you're going to learn she has all the power right now. You're going to learn this, right? So uh so she has the authority to remove or cause the removal of someone for disrupting the meeting. And this was a provision that got put in place during the COVID era because there was so much disruption happening at a lot of local agency public meetings. Um so this is not just somebody coming to say mean remarks, right? Like I think

121your staff is incompetent or I'm really unhappy with my kid's English teacher or something like that. People have the right to say things like that. Even though they may be rude, even though they may be hurtful, it's like, okay, it is what it is. You know, your staff isn't working for the public agency. You've signed up to be public officials. So, you know, you kind of brought it on yourself taking a job in the public space, right? You just know people are going to be critical. They're going to say mean things sometimes. That's just how it is. Um, so I'm not talking about that. But what I'm talking about is, you know, somebody brings a megaphone and starts screaming at you so you can't conduct business. Um, somebody brings uh a a boom box and

122starts playing it super loud so you can't conduct business, can't hear one another talk, right? That's the sort of disruption I'm talking about. Okay? Or um they do something that is the use of force or a true threat of force. So they take a knife out and they put it here on the podium as they're talking. Something like that would be a threat of force, right? Like as they're talking to you. That sort of behavior is unacceptable obviously. So um so what are we going to do in a circumstance like that? Um you as chair, you're going to you're going to let them know that their conduct is disrupting the meeting and that their failure to cease that conduct is going to lead to them being removed. Okay. Once you've given that warning, if they

123continue to persist in the behavior, um you could, if you really wanted to get up out of your chair and push them out of the room, or you could tell staff to do so. >> You could tell staff to do so. >> Um, but do I think that's a good idea? >> No. And why is that not a good idea? Because you know that the minute the person gets pushed out the door, they're going to say, "My ankle got broken or whatever, excessive force was used and now I I can't breathe, right?" You know, whatever. Somebody's going to make some crazy claim >> and then we're going to have a lawsuit and it's just going to be a mess. So, what are we going to do in real life? What are we going to do?

124Not what the law says you can do. We're going to say we're going to recess the meeting probably and we're going to try to just let cooler heads prevail hopefully and try to persuade the person to turn off the boom box. Then you're going to come back. You're going to start the meeting again. And if it happens again, what are we going to do? We're going to recess the meeting again. We're going to call the police because we want the police to remove the person from the meeting at your direction. So that then if there's any sort of issue that occurs and their wrist gets broken or whatever allegation they may have, that lawsuit's going against the city and it's not, you know, hopefully going to involve you or members of the staff here, right?

125>> But it is appropriate. Oh, I'm sorry [laughter] to only have Kenny, but does that include other board members >> uh who are disrupting the meeting? Well, you know, the law doesn't say, but you know, I suppose I suppose that's an interesting question. >> Yeah, we had was there other questions down there? >> No. Oh, okay. >> Okay. Um, some more uh this was another change that uh went into effect this year. You'll see on this slide here is that this right was expanded to include uh people participating in a teleconferenced meeting. Um, and so we've had a number of issues. um which I won't describe in painful detail uh uh because you'd probably be shocked and amazed at the things that members of the public have done on Zoom calls, but um you know,

126people doing things that are inappropriate. We'll just leave it at that. Um and they're causing disruption in some way. Um so we can now kick that person off the Zoom call in in after, you know, providing them the appropriate uh warning. Now, closed sessions, let's move on to that. Um no board member, staff member or um someone who is invited into close session can disclose information from close session without authorization of a majority of the board. Okay. So what happens if you disclose information? You're probably going to get a lawsuit from the student or parent. Uh you're probably going to get a lawsuit from the former employee who you fired in that close session. not even if you have good cause to fire them just because of the confidentiality breach alone. Right? So always think

127about the laws about process and if you breach the process, you can get a lawsuit even if substantively you might have done the right thing for kids. Right? Here are your six reasons you could be in close session as a charter school board. Um most of these are pretty self-explanatory. um personnel and pupil discipline are are kind of similar and that the student or employees right to privacy is why you can be in close session. Uh real estate and labor negotiations uh are have something in common. The taxpayers are looking for you to get the best deal on their behalf in some negotiation. Um the conference with legal counsel has a twofold. It's both to protect the attorney client privilege, but also so you get the best deal in negotiations that may occur. And the

128public security exception, this one was added after 911 related to um, you know, potential threats to facilities that local government agencies operate. Um, I've never seen it in practice used for that originally intended purpose, but I have seen charter schools use that one. And where it has come up has been circumstances where students have posted threats on social media um against school employees or against the school generally um and you would be surprised how many of these threats are occurring uh particularly postcoid. It seems like not a week goes by that my office doesn't get a call um uh from some charter school in California with a student having made some sort of inappropriate threat that they posted to Facebook or otherwise. um this exception allows you to meet with law enforcement agencies or your

129legal counsel to discuss um those threats and your preparedness, right? And the idea obviously here is we don't want to telegraph to a potential perpetrator what your response plan is, right? So that's the whole point of it is you can meet with the police department, talk in close session, have you know a planning conversation to make sure, okay, do we have all the right things in place to make sure people are safe before we reopen school on Monday about labor negotiations? You mean dealing with all employees of the district? >> Yeah. So either either people who are unionized or people who are not unionized. Either one the board can talk about um negotiations in in close session. Yes. Um penalties and remedies. Um you know this is what can happen. You could have your board

130action declared null and void. You could have injunction granted against you continuing to behave in the way you were behaving. Um most painfully sometimes the prevailing pliff is awarded attorneys fees and the only people who bring these actions pretty much are the really big downtown San Francisco LA firms. So, this will be a six-f figureure bill uh when you receive it. Um because those people bill, you know, basically four times what I bill per hour. [laughter] Um it's painful because I do these presentations. I think it would be better to be on the other side of some of these crazy things, but uh those people just make money handover fist. It's gross. Um, so, uh, potential charter revocation, uh, just simply because, um, you know, any violation of law, um, could support a charter revocation.

131Um, if you're going to get one of these, um, lawsuits before they can sue, they have to give you a notice and provide you an opportunity to cure within 30 days. So, absolutely, all day long, what do I tell people to do? If it's even a gray area, just cure it within 30 days. then we don't have the lawsuit. We're not going to get the six-f figureure bill. Uh there's just no reason if you're in a gray area even to have a fight about it. Let's just call a board meeting. We'll we'll post it on the agenda in the way they asked us to. We'll discuss it. We'll vote again and we'll put the issue to bed and move on. Um all right. Um so you can see we've only covered the first topic, but

132I promise you the rest of the topics move much faster. Um so public records act okay is um to ensure that members of the public have the right to access information conducting your business. This is the process that your staff uses to process these kinds of requests when they come in the door. It's pretty straightforward. Um most importantly a request can be in any form and it does not need to reference the public records act request. And so the most common kinds of violations that I see is that a parent writes in an email, I'd like to see a copy of your policy on X and the school doesn't treat it or think about it as a public records act request. They just think, oh, this is Julie's request to me for a copy of

133this policy. I'll get to it when I can get to it. No, that's a public records act request when that email is sent in the door. And so we owe an obligate uh a response. Um and we owe an a response even if it's just a verbal request. And when do verbal requests get made all the time to you in a boardroom during public comment somebody says well I'd like a copy of Jerry's presentation that's a public records act request and we need to treat as such and we need to respond timely to that request. Okay so what are public records there any writings containing information relating to the conduct of the public's business that are prepared owned used or retained by any local agency regardless of physical form or characteristics. So, super broad. Um,

134so what's a writing? A writing isn't even just a writing. It includes pictures, sounds, symbols, [laughter] you know, uh, all kinds of things, right? So, what is important for you to know, the city of San Jose case is what's important for you to know that um when a city employees writings about public business are not excluded um simply because they've been sent, received, or stored in a personal account or um through a personal phone. Okay? So you can use your personal phone, but if you send a text message and it's about school business on your personal phone, it is a public record, likely disclosable public record. Okay? So just always be thoughtful as you're sending text messages to staff, as staff is sending text messages to you or between and among each other or between

135and among each other, just be thoughtful. Some of those text messages may be public records that ultimately are disclosable. Same thing with emails. between and among board members, from board members to staff, from staff members to each other, from staff members to the board. All of those combinations of things are likely public records, unless they're excluded for some other reason, right? Some might be excluded because they're attorney client privilege. Some might be excluded because they're a personnel record. Some might be excluded because they're a student record, right? So, there's examples of things that would not be public, but you always just have to be really thoughtful about this. Before you hit send, I advise you to think really hard. Would I mind if this was on the front page of the Sacramento B. That's your

136test. Before you hit send, if you would mind, maybe better to pick up the phone and have a phone call instead. >> Okay. Post production. Um, if the plan if the potential pliff is not happy, they think that you're hiding stuff from them, uh, they can file suit and if they win, they're going to get attorneys fees. again, six figure bill, not good. Um, we've already talked about this and we've covered two topics. So, conflicts of interest. Um, a conflict of interest arises when somebody on staff or someone on the board has some sort of private financial interest uh in the outcome of a contract decision uh or some other public decision and participates in that decision-making process. And so what does that look like? They are talking to someone about it or they are

137making the decision. Either one. So um they're attempting to influence or they are influencing. What does that mean? Well, if you murder someone, it's bad. If you attempt to murder someone, still bad, right? We're still going to punish you for the attempt because we want to discourage you from even attempting it. Okay. Um, so here are some common types of uh financial interests regulated by conflict laws. Okay, so where do these things normally come up? When you have ownership or investment in some sort of business entity that then wants to do business with GCC. Okay, I don't care that you own an apple farm in Massachusetts. That's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about a company that wants to do business with GCC, right? That's what I'm talking about. Investment in real property. Why

138can this matter? Well, because believe it, that when a school opens in the immediate proximity of property that you own, it may increase or decrease the value of that property depending on what is located on that property. And so we care if you are locating a school facility near real property that you own. We care about things that may impact a source of income for you. uh source of income is most commonly a job, right? So, if it would impact your employer, then we're concerned because we know that that puts you in a conflict because you're going to want to make your boss happy and you're going to want to make, you know, GCC happy and that how do you do that if you're stuck in the middle potentially? We care about um people who

139give you gifts because we think those might look a lot like bribes in certain circumstances. um and failing all four of the above, we care if it has some effect on your personal finances, even if it's not directly and specifically in one of those above four categories. Note also that uh financial interests of immediate family members of board members and employees typically are covered as if they were your personal interests. So, if your spouse owns stock in a company that then wants to do business with GCC, it's just the same as if you owned that stock personally um and wanted that company wanted to do business with GCC because we're a community property state. So, any dollars that go in your spouse's pocket, it's the same as if it was into your pocket basically, right?

140That's why we care. So, um some new stuff. Um, this is, uh, this is new. Um, under existing law, um, you've been required to fill out those form 700s, but Assembly Bill 1286 has now expanded some disclosure requirements for all of you to talk about disclosures of arrangements for prospective employment, meaning future employment. Okay? So, we care now to the extent that you are going to take a job somewhere, right? and specifically where right we're going to be most concerned about some somewhere who then wants to do business with GCC. So we care if you resign from the board and then you go take a job at a curriculum company that then is selling textbooks to GCC. That's going to be a problem, right? And so these disclosure rules are designed to ensure that you're

141disclosing that future prospective uh employment, right? that you're reporting it, that everyone here will now be aware that that's a prospective employment thing. That's some future employment you're going to have. Even if you don't work there now, we're going to assume that that's going to be a problem. And we we don't want you part of any discussions. We don't want you part of any votes um relating to potential contracts with that company that you are about to work for in January. Okay? for example. So, uh, Government Code section 1090 is the most serious of these, uh, statutes because a violation of 1090 is a felony in the state of California and you can spend time in state prison. And yes, we do have a charter school board member who is successfully prosecuted under this section

142of law down in Orange County. So, yes, it really can happen. It really has happened. um it comes up where you've got a public official and that's any of you meaning any board member, any staff member, right, who's in administration who's involved in making a public contract for the sale or purchase of goods or services and where that public official has a financial interest in the contract. Um, so if a board member has that financial interest, the entire board is prohibited from entering into the contract, even if it's the best vendor, even if it's the best price, even if it's the only vendor within 10 miles who can provide that service, even if you went through a bidding process and this was the lowest responsive bidder, we cannot enter into that contract because a board

143member has a financial interest. Okay? unless an exception applies because you know that every member of the legislature had one buddy that they wanted to protect when they passed 1090. And so there are some incredibly weird tickytacky little things like not exempting all attorneys, but only if you're an attorney at a law firm with a hundred or more employees that was founded before 1964 and has entered into a contract with a local government agency for five or more years. this kind of nonsense and you're just like really and so it's such a pain in the ass for me because every time somebody wants to ask well hey is this a is this is there an exception that applies well now I have to go read read through all of the buddy exceptions right to see

144if one of those buddy exceptions might happen to apply under this fact scenario 30 years later right u so it's really kind of crazy but um so unless an exception applies that is the rule is that we're not going to enter into the contract at all note that Taking a public contract is defined very broadly. It's not just the vote that occurs here in the meeting. It's all of the earliest discussions, planning, solicitation for bids, developing the bid pro packet, all that sort of stuff. Why? Because we don't want you to write the bid packet so that only your spouse's company is going to be the only company with the magic equipment that you said was needed. um because obviously that's going to steer the contract toward your spouse's company, right? So, we care about

145even those early conversations, not just the final action by the board. Okay. Um in addition to a violation of 1090 being a felony, the contract is void. So, here's the super extra bad nightmare scenario is the board member gets prosecuted and then the contract is void. So the company has to refund the money back to the charter school after it's already provided services to the charter school. So it damages the company financially. It damages the board member financially because they're having to hire a criminal defense attorney and then at the end of it they may end up in prison. The same sort of thing can apply to again to management employees who are involved in all these processes around contracting. So just be very cautious as managers or as board members. If you have any

146kind of financial conflict of interest, you should not participate in any discussions or votes. And what's the right thing for you to go? Go see Jason. Go see Jason. Jason, I was I remember from last year when Jerry did that presentation, he said, "Under no circumstances should I be part of anything that's a conflict of interest." Now, I have to tell you that I just learned that my spouse's company is uh sent in a a response to a proposal, a request for proposal. Disclose immediately so that we can, you know, take the appropriate steps, right? Don't wait until you see it on a board agenda and then you're like, "Hey, maybe no on that, you know, it's a little late by that point, right?" Like, go immediately disclose to Jason so Jason can do the

147right make sure the right things happen. Okay. Political reform act. Um we really only look in detail at this primarily uh for decisionmaking purposes if there's an exception to 1090 that applies, right? Because um this is similar but not exactly the same. Um it applies in the same sort of scenario where you've got a public official, they've got a financial interest, etc. Um, but what it allows is that if there is an exception to 1090 and we're only looking at the political reform act, if that member of the board does not participate in the discussion and does not participate in the vote, the remaining members can in fact approve that contract. Okay. But again, only if an exception to 1090 applies in the first instance, then we sort of start looking here and we do

148this analysis, right? um you're required to adopt a conflict of interest code and in addition to uh it reflecting your need to fill out and file form 700s, it will it will determine which staff members have to fill out and file form 700 and which disclosure categories we expect them to fill out based on the nature of the job they perform for you. You have to file it within 30 days of assuming your um board seat or your employment position. once annually by April 1st and within 30 days of leaving your office or position if you resign your employment or your board seat. If you have a deliberate failure to file, and I underscore the word deliberate, that means intentional. You're intentionally not filing your form. Okay, you can face criminal charges. I don't want

149people scared that like, oops, I filed it a day late. Like, am I going to get thrown in jail? The reality is probably not because they probably aren't going to be able to show you deliberately failed to file if in fact you filed it a day late, right? Like that's probably just you forgot. You were intending to do it, but you forgot probably. Um civil or administrative action by the Fair Political Practices Commission. This means they can find you for your failure. Um common law conflicts of interest. So, this comes up um when there's no financial interest, but there's still it still doesn't really pass the smell test. So, this would be like a parent who sits on the charter school board and Jason shows up one day and says, "I'm recommending we expel your

150daughter from the school." And then that board member saying, "Well, great. I'll be here for the closed session." And no, no, no, you won't actually be here for the closed session because we have a common law conflict of interest. Even though the expulsion of your daughter is not a financial interest of yours, it nevertheless is a conflict of interest because it creates an appearance of impropriy. Right? So, we still care about those kinds of things that create an appearance of impropriy as well. All right? So, we're going to move on to bribery and gifts. Um, we don't want to be in a situation, right, where you ever receive a bribe. Okay? Um, so we have to think about when people give you gifts, what's the intent of the giver and the receiver? Um, does that

151giver have business before the board? In other words, are they a proposed vendor? Something like that. Um, is that giver attempting to influence a decision that you're trying to make? Is the receiver participating somehow in a quidd proquo? You know, you do this for me and I'll do this for you. That's obviously problematic. uh or even just could a gift have the appearance of a bribe, right? Even if it may not actually be one, just, you know, even the appearance can send you spiraling into criminal investigations. So, um we're going to look a little uh more in detail at some of this. uh penal code section 68 is one of the things I have to talk to you about and all of these executive and ministerial officers, employees and appointees of the state or a

152political subdivision thereof you know are not supposed to be um uh accepting bribes and if they do you can find yourself in prison. You also don't want to bribe other public officials. Uh, so be very careful as you have conversations with schoolboard members or district staff about charter renewals, about charter revocations. Don't don't include language in any way that might somebody might read the wrong way. Just be very thoughtful in in how you make those communications. Some rules on gifts. Uh, you are prohibited from accepting, as a general rule, more than $590 from one source in a calendar year. Um, the general rule also is that report gifts worth more than $50 must be reported. And that's true whether somebody gives you one $50 gift or someone takes you to Taco Bell 10 times and

153finally trips over the $50 limit uh for the year. Okay, there's many exceptions before anyone panics to both of these general rules. Um, here are the most common ones. um special occasions like birthdays and holidays, you can get gifts from anyone other than lobbyists if the gift giving and taking is proportional. So what does that mean? Well, if I were to um give Joy a uh a package of Starbucks coffee for Christmas, if we were friends, we're not friends. I don't know joy really, but um but if we were uh and I were to give her a package of Starbucks coffee, as long as she gave me something proportional in return, right, and it was it was roughly the same value, that would not be a problem on a special occasion, right? Because it's proportional

154and we're friends, right? And that's the reason for the gift. The gift is not intended as a bribe. It's just because we're friends, maybe. Okay. Um, again, to be clear, for Joyy's benefit, we're not friends and I've never given her anything. But just, you know, theoretically, inheritance, um, inheritance. Inheritance. Uh, we know that dead people are not trying to bribe you. If they left you something, they left you money because they love you. So, that's going to be fine. this incredibly long list of family members, including um the spouse of your first cousin once removed, um can give you gifts, uh as long as they're not a lobbyist because we assume that they're giving gifts because they love you and not because they're trying to influence your decision here. Uh if you have friends for

155a period of time, uh and and that gift giving and taking is proportional, it can be on any day. It doesn't have to be specifically on a birthday or a holiday, right? So if you know if you've got some college roommate that you exch have exchanged gifts with for the last 40 years, there's not a problem with that as long as the gift giving and taking is roughly proportional, right? And they're not a lobbyist. Dating, we assume uh as long as they're not a lobbyist, that that's probably a gift because they love you. Um so also okay. But pro tip here, never date a lobbyist because you can't get gifts. I mean, what's even the point of dating them? I mean, really. Um, so let's talk about returning or donating gifts. So, I will tell

156you that the most common issue that I see with charter school board members is not that they're somehow in some crazy bribery scheme, right? The most common issue that violates the law that they do, and the same with management employees is they receive a gift and they think because they're such good people. They're good people at heart. And so what do they think? They think, "Oh, the Smith family, you know, their mom just died. They could really use this packet of Niners tickets that the curriculum company offered. So I am going to call them back and say, "Yes, Miss the Smith family. I'll take those tickets and I'll give them to the Smith family." So, I feel so bad their mom died. And this will cheer up the kids. You know what you did when

157you did that? You violated the gift limit and you took a gift from someone who's not in one of these accepted exceptions. And so, you violated the gift law and you violated the gift law. Even if you turn around and give those tickets immediately the very next second to the Smith family, you still accepted them. And because you accepted them, we have a problem on our hands. we have a legal violation on our hands. So when I see clients do things in the gift area, it's always that it's always that they took some sort of gift with the intent to do something nice for someone else, not because they were intending to keep the gift and personally enrich themselves, right? But just know that even if you're doing that for some other person or for

158some other good cause, it's still prohibited. >> Now you're talking about a price. You said because you [clears throat] violated the price law. Did you say that? >> $590. >> Oh, $590. >> Yeah. So, if you get a fourack of tickets to a Niners game, it's probably going to be more than the $590, right? >> Yeah. But >> yeah, >> if I wanted to get my administrative assistant a gift for Christmas, >> I can do that. >> Well, yes, because you're giving the gift. I'm receiving the gift. >> Okay. Okay. What we care about is what's regulated is you as a public official receiving gifts >> where there's no exception to these gift rules, right? Because we worry that someone from some curriculum company is going to give you a gift to get in good

159favor and then they're going to show up on some board agenda three months from now. >> Uhhuh. >> That's what we're worried about. >> Oh, that that's okay. >> Right. That's why this is all regulated is that's the context. I can give gifts to you be as generous as you want to be. You be as generous as you >> that I want to. >> You can conflict of interest. >> Again, not a problem. >> Not a problem. Up to the $590 per person. >> Oh, so my birthday can give me $590. >> So on a birthday it could be more, right? If as long as long as Harry's not a winner, you can give him more than 590 on his birthday. Yeah. So, >> okay. [laughter] >> And the board. >> As long as he

160does something proportional back for you, >> as long as he does something proportional back. >> So, you got to give me something back. Okay. >> Yeah. So, anyway. >> Okay. That's what I wanted to make. >> We won't stall on this, but I It illustrates the point, right? Um, perks of office. You can't do any of these things, right? Um, now what's the thing that charter school board members, especially retired charter school board members, might do without even knowing this is a problem, the honoraria ban. Number two on the list, payments made for a speech given, article published, or attendance at any public or private conference, convention, meeting, social event, meal, or like gathering. Why? Because the more experience you have, the more likely you are to be invited to be the keynote speaker for

161XYZ conference, right? Because we want to know what your thoughts are on this issue, right? And so, be mindful of this honoraria ban um that is in place. Okay? Um, and if you have any circumstances like that, happy to follow up later about any particular fact patterns like that. Use of public funds. Uh, all state, federal, and local funds received by charter schools are considered public funds immediately upon receipt and they must be used to support the educational mission. >> [clears throat] >> So even if you receive funds from a private source, some wonderful parent says, "I want to help you out and they write you a check for 500 bucks and they say please spend this money however you think best." Um even in that case um those funds are converted to public funds

162upon receipt and all of the restrictions on the use of public funds apply the minute they are received by you and deposited into your bank account. So for each transaction Oh yeah, Jack. Yes. Does that also apply to foundations if we have a foundation? >> No. That's a great question. So, one of the most common things that charter schools do uh is they create a foundation and they ask people to donate there. And that's really super smart because, um, foundations can do certain things that we're going to see in just a minute that you can't do with dollars donated directly to the charter school. So, I'm going to show you a couple of slides that'll illustrate that exactly. So um the public scrutiny test right think about for each transaction would the taxpaying public uh

163view the expenditure is necessary to support public education right and if not then what happens you end up as one of those uh headlines in the newspaper you know that I showed you at the beginning of the presentation you don't want to be there um if you're questioning whether the expenditure is appropriate it may not be so what's the first question I always ask somebody if They call me and they go, "Jerry, I'm not sure. I'm agonizing about this a little bit. I'm the CBO. What do you think?" I'm like, you know, if you bothered to pick up the phone and thought it was important to call me, you probably already know the answer to this question, right? Like, you probably shouldn't do this because if you feel that uncomfortable about it, it probably is

164going to look bad on the front page of the newspaper, you [snorts] know? Um, so just think about that, you know? Um, generally public contracting and bidding laws do not apply to charter school expenditures, but increasingly charter schools are now starting to get roped in and we are seeing proposals uh in the legislature to rope charter schools fully in to all of the traditional public contracting laws. So, um you know, we will probably end up there at some point. Um, but right now, you know, the most common issues that come up are food services contracts and anytime you tap into state bond funds for facilities. Those are the two areas where most charter schools end up getting sucked into bidding uh and contracting laws. Uh, you're not allowed to use public resources or funds for

165campaign activities or personal purposes. Um, probably none of you are planning to run for mayor, but you know, just in case. Um, persons responsible for receipt, safekeeping, transfer, and dispersement of public money, which is the whole board and Jason and your CBO at very least are prohibited from appropriating it for personal use, keeping false accounts, uh, or willfully obstructing lawful payments. Embezzlement also bad. Um, don't do that. Um, gifts of public funds. Okay. Uh there's a general prohibition against lending or gifting public money in the state constitution. Uh for charter schools in particular, there has to be a nexus between the expenditure and the mission of the public school. Expenditures should be budgeted for by the board. Should further the charter school's public purpose uh should be evaluated on a case-byase basis. Um purely personal

166items or money benefiting an individual without any consideration are not okay. So, paying for a board member's vacation or the CEO's gym membership typically not going to be okay. Here's a bunch of other things that the fiscal crisis management assistance team has on their list of things that are not okay. And Jack, this gets directly to your question of what about a foundation? This these are rules that apply to public funds, right? In other words, charter school funds that are in the charter schools accounts. Some of these things you might say, "Hey, but some of these things look legit, right? Like we we still think they would have a public benefit. We just can't spend public funds on it. Could we spend foundation money?" And the answer is maybe yes, right? And that's the whole

167advantage of why you would have a foundation, why you would have people donating there directly instead. So for example, you are prohibited from purchasing flowers for a personal gift even if somebody's spouse died. >> [sighs] >> You can't use public money for that purpose. Now, the foundation might be able to as an example, right? Um, you can't buy alcohol, but the foundation could if it was doing so as part of a a fundraising event, for example. Um, holiday or other staff parties or picnics. If there's no business taking place there, no public funds could be spent for those kinds of purposes, but the foundation could, right? So, those would all be examples of of certain things like that. Here's a list of allowable expenses. Um, and you will see that um some of these look

168very similar, right? So, in the case of flowers, right, it is okay if they're for a school awards ceremony or a commemorative event like graduation. So that's different than an individual person being the recipient, right? Refreshments and meals for meetings for the purpose of conducting school business. So you have a a meeting of staff and you are talking about school business. That's okay to have meal for something like that. You just can't provide meals gratuitously, you know, with no business purpose, right? So you can see there's little distinctions here between these two sides, right? All right, we're almost all the way through. Few more slides. Um, you want to make sure for fairness of process, right? Like this is all about just making sure that you're not discriminating at any time against anyone based on

169any protected class. um and making sure that you're following all of the processes and policies that you have put in place as people complain to you about anything. It doesn't matter what the complaint is about. You just want to make sure everyone those complaints are processed fairly and without discrimination. Now, where does do I see charter school boards get in trouble around this? Excuse me. Um where this comes up uh usually is parent or employee comes to charter school board member. I have a complaint about X and tries to get you to engage in resolving that complaint or that problem. What's the right thing for you to do? the right thing for you to do is say,"Well, we have a policy on how complaints like this can be handled and you should review that policy

170and file your complaint pursuant to that policy." Now, it might eventually reach the board level. It might if it's not resolved below. But what you want is for the person to start at the lowest rung in that policy and try to work it out at the lowest rung and then it moves its way up. Eventually it hits Jason. If they're still not happy, eventually they may show up here, right? And when they show up here, what am I concerned about? I don't want a situation where somebody can say one of you had a prior conversation with only one side of a complaint, got information from only that one side and is now a decision maker because that's unfair. That's unfair to the other party, right? Who the complaint was against you. If you're going to

171hear something, I want you to have all the information. I want you to have all the findings of an investigation report, right? I want you to be making your decisions in an unbiased way, you know, as a matter of first impression because you're kind of like the Supreme Court. You know, people don't get just to go show up at the Supreme Court, right? We we get there only if we're not happy with the resolution of our complaint at the lower courts. We only get there on appeal, right? So, and you're like that, right? And so, what I want you to say is please go follow the policy. Please go file your complaint pursuant to the policy and staff will work with you, you know, as you go through those steps. Um, you may end up

172before us eventually and I can't have I can't have any allegation of bias that I'm hearing information from only one side of a dispute, you know. All right, this next one uh got a lot more interesting uh last week. Um, doctrine of incompatible offices. So, this prohibits a public official from holding two public offices simultaneously um where those offices are incompatible either because there's divided loyalties or overlapping jurisdictions. Um we had uh a circumstance where another charter leader here in this county uh Paul Kefir was sued um trying to remove him from the Sacramento County Board of Education because he's also the executive director of a charter school network here in the area. Um and the judge put out a preliminary uh decision tenative ruling last week indicating that um that the judge felt this

173was not an incompatible office to be serving in both of those positions at the same time. So there was a lot of speculation like how was this going to turn out, right? Um, but the idea here is that um, if you are so excited having served on this board that you want to run for mayor or city council or something like that down the road, um, that's great, but you may have to resign your seat here upon being seated there, right? If it's a an overlapping jurisdiction and it might create divided loyalties, right? So, we'll see how that case plays out. I don't know whether there'll be an appeal. Uh right now it's just a tenative ruling so it's not final yet but we'll know soon. Is it final? Uh it's very interesting case. Nepotism.

174Uh tons and tons and tons of schools have ended up in really bad problems that have led to the closure over nepotism. And what this is is it's just all about you know you you start hiring all your family members, right? you hire family members of all the people and management and stuff and eventually what happens is you you find it it's really difficult to hold people accountable for things uh because now I'm worried about that person's uncle is my boss and well I I don't know now that I can hold that person accountable really for their poor teaching or whatever it may be. So, um, you know, you should have a policy on nepatism, uh, and you should try to prevent those sorts of situations whenever possible because they they again, they're sort of

175the path to the dark side, right? They lead you down this path. And, um, even if that person seems super qualified on the surface, they ultimately it just it just always comes back to bite you, I find. uh when you've got when you're a government agency needing to comply with all of these many many laws, you're not a private business, you know, where um where you're a family-owned business, you're a government agency. And so just different people expect different things of you than they would expect a private company. And with that, we have completed our slides. Oh, she told me to remind Thank you so much. You have done a tremendous job. We were all very attentive to what you had to say and there's a lot in here that we need to be very

176cognitive of. So, thank you. one member just yet. >> You know, I have to say, Jerry, I you you have convinced me. I came in really skeptical that, you know, I'd seen it all, knew it all, and been around. I learned a lot. I really mean that. I Your insight was really, really, very good. And I I just really say I don't know how many of these presentations that you make, but uh uh you're you're you really have enlightened me. I appreciate it. It was a pleasure being here today. >> Other board members, >> any other board members comments? >> Thank you, Jerry. It's very informative. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> I got seen some of these things happen. So, I used to serve on the regular school board. So, you know, >> Yeah.

177school board president for 17 years. [laughter] >> So pleasure pleasure being here. Thanks so much. >> Thank you so so much. Really appreciate everything. >> And then Madam President, this on behalf of staff, we say thank you to Jerry also for his work and also thank you to the board for your uh commitment to this very uh transparent work that you do every day. So we do appreciate you. And Jerry, you are invited to stay at the board meeting. [laughter] >> Take care. >> Okay. At this point, board members, we now have a motion for journment uh from this. We don't >> at this time a motion for journment until our next 4:45. >> I move we adjourn. I'll second. >> It's second. All in favor? >> I oppose. The eyes have it. We are

178now adjourned until 4:45. Thank