001[Music] welcome to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson meet the court has brought to you as a public service by the Superior Court of New Jersey in Atlantic and Cape May counties as well as the Cape May Technical High School to better inform you the public on the workings of the court and the role of the judiciary in our communities today's topic expungements how does this complex legal process work here to guide us through this process our guests managing attorney for South Jersey legal services James McLean welcome Jim good to be here Thank You Jerrod and frequent contributor and guests to the show assistant trial court administrator Joe Hal welcome back Joe thanks happy to be back so Jill you'll get us started just explain to us why would somebody need an expungement
002well Jawad imagine the worst thing you've ever done the biggest mistake you've ever made maybe you hurt somebody's feelings maybe you really embarrassed yourself now imagine having to write that incident down every time you applied for a job or applied for housing or a loan or a mortgage that's what someone with a criminal record has to do even if you know 10 years has passed since they made that mistake so an expungement sounds like a technical term what is it an expungement is the extraction and isolation of everywhere that someone's arrest or conviction shows in the public eye so where the arrest shows at the police station the municipal court the Superior Court the prosecutor's office the probation division it's not a deletion of the arrest of the conviction but it's just an isolation so
003the public can view it any more so Jim you must give folks come to your office for assistance with these type of matters so what are the type of eligibility requirements that exist to get records expunged well there are a number of factors that we look at in determining whether or not someone's eligible for an expungement we look at the nature of the offense the number of offenses committed we look at whether or not someone's been granted an expungement before how much time is elapsed between the completion of the sentence for the underlying conviction or convictions and the filing of the expungement petition we also look at whether or not the person has been granted PTI or has received a conditional discharge or other super supervisory program but the eligibility is the first item that
004we have to determine before proceeding okay so I come to you with a complex history I've got a complex background and I've got multiple indictable offences can i expunge those it depends generally you can expunge one indictable offense that's a crime of the first second third or fourth degree here in New Jersey or one indictable plus for disorderly persons or petty this early person's offenses but there's also a way that you can expunge more than one indictable offense and more than a few disorderly persons offenses and that depends on when the offenses were committed and by that I mean if the offenses were interdependent upon each other and they were committed within a relatively short period of time as a continuing sequence of events you can have more offenses expunged moreover if the offenses that
005you're seeking to have expunged are listed in a single judgment of conviction you can also expunge multiple offenses okay so you talked about weekend I could expunge a combination of indictable and disorderly persons offenses if I needed to do that some higher level offenses with lower level offenses that's correct okay so can all criminal convictions be expunged no not all criminal convictions the most serious criminal convictions like murder kidnapping robbery that type of thing those are non expungeable offenses and those cannot be expunged under any circumstances okay so I've been convicted of a crime and now I want an expungement how long do I have to wait before I seek one it depends on the grading of the offense recently the expungement laws have changed it used to be that you had to wait 10
006years from the completion of your sentence for indictable offense before you could file a petition for expungement but the legislature has lessened that to six years for disorderly in petty different persons offenses it's five years juvenile juvenile delinquency record three years an ordinance violation two years drug court graduation immediately okay so you talked about the expungement of juvenile delinquency do the same rules apply can I seek in a expungement of a juvenile delinquent adjudication yes you can it's the same as if you were an adult in terms of the nature of the offense the only difference would be for a juvenile record again you only have to wait three years as opposed to if you're an adult and you have an indictable offense where petty to sorely persons or disraeli persons offense will be five
007years and there are exceptions to the waiting periods as well if you can show that it's in the public interest to have the court grant an expungement before the six years elapsed as long as you have waited at least five years then you can seek an expungement at that time so there are what they call public interest exceptions or early pathway okay so what I haven't heard is about motor vehicle arrests or convictions for motor vehicle expensive offenses can they be expunged no they can't Jawad only criminal offenses can be expunged those are offenses that are listed under the Criminal Code of the state of New Jersey motor vehicle offenses come under the motor vehicle statutes so they're not considered criminal in nature well that's an interesting distinction this is meet the court and I'm
008your host Jawad Johnson we'll be back with our guests Jim McLean and Joe hawk discussing expungement after this message hello my name is Tom Haggerty I'm a sergeant the Cayman County Sheriff's Office and some of the things you should know when you enter any of our courthouses is once you come in they're gonna be screened by an officer at the front desk so what you should not have on you is any weapons tools anything that want to slow down that process you're gonna come in put all your metal objects up on the counter I'll step through the metal detector listening to the officers direction once you step through let you know whether you can continue on or whether you should stop if he stops you you may have to be wanted detect anything else you
009may have on you that that's not picking on sir so to speed your your trip along with this help come in because there may be lines when you come in and there may be delays so you want to get here early and you also welcome back to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson here with our guest Jim McLean and Joe Howe and if you just tuned in we've been discussing expungements or the clearing of a criminal record so Jill if someone has open charges can they apply for an expungement if someone has open charges they can't expunge any convictions they could expunge an arrest that's been dismissed or they've been acquitted or a diversion opportunity but no convictions can be expunged if someone has open charges so they can expunge an arrest record
010why would they want to do such a thing it's if someone has been arrested and the case was never proven and the charge was dismissed or the person was found not guilty they're actually eligible for what's called an expedited expungement so that can be there's no waiting period its expungement than a week or two seems like that would help them if they were looking for a job with law enforcement or something like that in the future so there has to be a cost to this if someone is still making payments on fines to various courts can they do they have to pay those fines first before they'll be eligible for an expungement it depends if the fall waiting period has expired six years on indictable or five years on disorderly person charge they don't have
011to pay the fines and fees and full though they do have to show the court that they did make their best effort to pay those fines and fees on an ordinance violation though everything must be paid in full earlier you mentioned drug recovery court and folks being eligible there if a person has completed and graduated from drug recovery court what are their options for getting their records expunged someone that graduated successfully from recovery / drug court can have their entire record expunged even if they have more than four convictions even if they have more than one indictable conviction if someone graduated prior to April 2016 they are required to file the paperwork on their own that we do provide that person with a lot of extra help because they tend to have more arrests than
012the average person but they would have to file in the county where they were sentenced to drug court anyone that's graduated drug court a fir after April 2016 the public defender's office files all the paperwork for them and they basically just have to sit back and wait for the record to be expunged okay so I we touched on how much the cost of paying old fines would be how about the cost to file the paperwork itself does it cost anything it's a $75 filing fee however that can be waived if the person is indigent they do have to fill out an extra form to ask the court to waive the fee the the costs comes in where all of the paperwork has to be mailed certified which can cost about $3 per mailing and some
013people can have to mail to you know 20 different mailings so that's where the cost you know that cost cannot be waived and those costs can be waived because it's the United States Post Office well let's say I have something in multiple counties I've got charges in various different counties what county do I file in for to have my record expunged in all of those counties where the person would file wherever the indictable conviction if they have one occurred so even if they have one indictable conviction in Atlantic and say three shoplifting convictions in Cumberland County they would file in Atlantic if all they have is disorderly persons offenses then they would file where the most recent one occurred okay how about out-of-state I've got an out-of-state conviction I'm living in New Jersey now starting
014my life over again am I eligible to file in New Jersey as long as you're still under the you know for convictions or like Jim explained if you are allowed to expunge the multiple indictable convictions an out of state record actually does count towards the number of convictions and you must list all of those charges on your petition however the out of state charge does have to be the equivalent of a New Jersey conviction so for example in most states in America driving while intoxicated is actually a felony or a misdemeanor offense here it's still a traffic offence so if someone has multiple duis in another state that would not count against them here as their you know their conviction count but they would still have to list them so start to finish how long
015can someone who is looking for an expungement expect the process to take as long as the person mails everything very quickly and does their own follow-up the expungement process can take it can be granted in about two months the waiting period comes in for all of the agencies to remove the person's record from their system currently the state police have about a six month backlog so they're they keep everyone's fingerprint records so that is the most important record that needs to be expunged so it can take about eight months for the entire process in order for someone to actually say they don't have a record anymore so how does someone who needs to know you said you need to have all of your infamy or charge information how does someone get all that history so
016they can complete their paperwork well if someone has a very minimal record they can just go to that Municipal Court where they remember their charges were disposed of or Superior Court and they can get you know a record of the disposition we if we have an expungement seminar if the judiciary hosts an expungement seminar we do help people and provide them with with their records as well and also people can get fingerprinted it's about a sixty five dollar charge Jimmy won't come into you with expungements what from your position your standpoint has been some of the challenges that folks face trying to get expungements some of them have challenges because they don't recall much about what they did and therefore we have to rely upon records either provided through the FBI or through the state
017of New Jersey excuse me the cost unfortunately for people who are doing it themselves unless they can prove that they're indigent they do you know have to incur the fingerprinting fee as well as the filing fee and the cost of the certified mail if our office or any South Jersey legal services office represents someone they don't have to pay the filing fee they only fee that they would have to pay would be the cost of fingerprinting we even do all the certified mailing for them so about thirty seconds it sounds like South Jersey legal services is a great benefit to the community because they can provide services like for expungement mm-hmm that's correct yeah we handle we handle lots of them and it really opens a lot of doors for our clients both in terms
018of securing housing and getting jobs well that sounds like an excellent excellent service to the community this is meet the court I'm your host Awad Johnson and we'll be back with our guests Jim McLain and Joe Houck after this message hello again some of the things that you should know when you're entering the courtroom is there's a certain courtroom etiquette is expected of you you should come in quietly take a seat remain quiet at all times you should remove any coverings on your head hats hoodies sit down take any cell phones turn them completely off and have them away if they're a scene out they can be confiscated there's an officer that usually sits in the front of the room he is there for the judges safety as well as the public safety so if
019you're going to ask him a question stead of just flirting it out or getting up and approaching him get his attention attention discreetly raise your hand and he will approach you and ask the question at a quiet level thank you welcome back to meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson and we've been discussing the expungement process with our guests Jim McLean and Joe Hal so Jill we were discussing at the break sometimes folks may go 10 20 maybe 30 years before they decide to do this and if they have charges from that many years ago and they can't recall the details of the extent of their charges how do they find out if they're eligible for this type of service that person should really get fingerprinted it's about a $65 fee the directions can
020be found on the New Jersey State Police website but it that once they get that record then they could bring that to Jim or I and we could look at it and tell them whether they were eligible or not and a person you know they come and they get their paperwork to file but they find it complicated or they can't read as well as maybe some literacy issues there they don't speak the language is there anyone that can help them complete the forms the judiciary will help the person if they come to the court user Resource Center at the Atlanta County Superior courthouse in Atlantic City you know and and also South Jersey legal services will help them complete the paperwork excellent I hear that the court user Resource Center has a wonderful Ombudsperson there
021that just awesome and really into helping members of the public so that's definitely the whole staff is great and they're all great yeah they should come and visit so Joe another question for you is it necessary for me to appear in court to testify in favor of the expungement if there's no objection from an agency that holds the criminal record is there any reasons to appear no the actual hearing date is more due date for all the agencies where the person's record exists to object or object to the expungement basically saying you know I don't think John Smith is eligible no news is good news is what I say if someone doesn't hear back from the prosecutor's office or the court before their hearing date that means the expungement is going to be granted and
022the person just has to wait to get their expungement order in the mail if if a hearing is necessary then the person would be notified okay and not holding you to any numbers but guesstimate how many times do you get challenges from other agencies when an expungement someone attempts an expungement the biggest challenge is usually that the person forgets an arrest usually we don't have a lot of people that are ineligible applying people pretty much know you know that they check before they go through all of the paperwork to see if they're eligible or not more often than not you know someone had an arrest in Egg Harbor City back in 1986 that they forgot about and they just have to amend their paperwork to include those offenses okay so Jim how many expungements can
023I get you can only get one Jerrod just one per lifetime okay so does that mean I have to include every single criminal charge that I've ever had in my time I get one bite at the Apple as they say yes okay so how do I respond to a question about arrests and convictions the dreaded box if you will following a expungement generally you can answer that truthfully by saying no you've never had an arrest or conviction once those charges have been expunged however there are certain exceptions for instance if your fine for a job with law enforcement or the courts or a correctional Department you would have to disclose that as well as any judge who may be sentencing you for a new criminal offense following the expungement they would look at that as
024well as the correction department correction Department in determining where to house you but generally speaking you can truthfully answer no I've never had any convictions so is that the the ways that you named are those the ways that expungement records can be used can they ever be used beyond those ways checking your status for law enforcement employment or the sentencing for another judge that's right it's limited to those so can an expungement ever be recalled they're nullified in any type of way yes the quick answer is yes it's very rare but if you lie in your expungement petition and then it comes to light it can be the expungement order can be vacated or nullified also if you have any pending criminal charges that you did not disclose on your expungement petition and it's discovered
025within five years also the expungement order can be vacated and nullified so I've heard antidotes where someone comes in and says that they spoke to the court and they told them they're not eligible for an expungement but then they went and spoke to an attorney and told them that they are eligible and all they have to do is pay $1,500 who's correct the court okay this is practicing law is a commercial enterprise so it's in an attorney's best interest to give someone hope that they may be eligible for an expungement but if you go to court and meet with a member of the staff like at the Resource Center and they've gone through everything and have determined that you're not eligible I would go with the court staff so is your your your suggestion that
026they go and seek information from the court first before they go and try to put the wheels in motion for an expungement yes either the courts or earth legal services program so Joe you talked a little bit about challenges before what would you think be the biggest challenge that someone would face the biggest fear and how should they overcome it I think people are very intimidated by the paperwork it can be voluminous it can be a little bit confusing I mean sometimes I find it confusing and I work for the court but we tell people it's very tedious but it is worth it it's a long process but you know at the end you get to say no I don't have a criminal record so just don't be afraid to ask for help there are
027people there that will help people fill out the paperwork Jim there may be some viewers who are watching this and says and they may say it sounds soft on crime to me can you tell me why this is a public benefit and how this isn't soft on crime but actually restorative justice well the purpose of an expungement is to give someone who may have made a mistake a fresh start kind of like a bankruptcy if you think about it it's not meant to help criminals who commit repeated offenses to expunge their records it's meant to help those people who have rehabilitated themselves and have gone on to live a crime-free life basically following the their convictions so 30 seconds for each of you just give me some endorsement of why you think that folks who
028are in this position should come to get an expungement as soon as they can jail we'll start with you an expungement can be a life altering experience you like I said you can move on from that mistake you made and not have to keep reliving it every single time you apply for a job or apply for housing or a loan you don't have to disclose it anymore Jim from your perspective yes Jawad we've also seen at legal services that many of our clients were seeking either public or subsidized housing have a very difficult time securing that housing but for the expungement and like Jill mentioned with jobs there are so many jobs that require a criminal background check especially in Atlantic City with the casinos and the casino licensing so getting an expungement really opens
029a lot more doors so it certainly seems like expungement is the first step in the road back well that's all the time we have for today I'd like to thank our guests for joining us and I'd like to thank you for being with us for meet the court I'm your host Joe Johnson goodbye [Music] you [Music]