Superintendent's Workshop 1 p.m. 9-28-2021

001tuesday september 28 2001 i'm calling the workshop to order at one o'clock p.m and before we i turn it over to dr moore and in turn those that have agenda items i i'd like to make a few comments about the last meeting i've gone back and looked at that meeting at least the part of the meeting from when dr moore finished his presentation to all of the comments and at the end of confusion between amendments emotions and the like and um that's just not acceptable behavior on the part of this board and i take responsibility for allowing the interruptions between board members debates going back and forth when you're when it's your turn to speak as we agreed you speak when you're finished at somebody else's turn to speak i was particularly i'll say the

002word upset i'm not sure that's the right word in the manner in which dr moore was spoken to by two board members he is the chief executive officer of this district he deserves to be treated with respect specifically and in hindsight i'm not sure i would have voted for uh the early start to the k through a transition because in thinking about it it's our job to create policy it's not our job to tell the superintendent and his team how to implement policy we can offer suggestions but it's his decision when you start telling the superintendent and i don't know how many times that he really wanted that extra few days to make sure that principals teachers and parents understood this transition to this new mitigation comments were made that were entirely inappropriate and i'm

003not going to get into who and how but people know so that's just not going to be tolerated in the future he's the he's the chief executive officer it's his job to make recommendations and when it comes to implementation if it goes wrong and we and we try and force on him how to implement a policy that we set and it doesn't go right guess who gets the grief so from now on i would respectfully ask that that we stick to policy and when he makes a recommendation particularly when he defended the recommendation he was make i don't know how many times and we voted against his recommendation i was and i was one of them i was pretty confident he'd get it done because he always does and i said i said you know

004he's a perfectionist and i think i said that i'm confident he'd get it done but that's not the point the point is that it's not our role in my opinion to tell him how to implement policy he can ask for our suggestions we all have an opportunity to meet with him one-on-one and he's very open to ideas and suggestions but you know in a public forum like this we show him the respect that he's entitled to the other thing that um if you went back and looked at that work at that business meeting the last two hours were spent debating masks back and forth and to and fro and it was embarrassing and i'm sure a lot of us have heard from it from people that i was in a meeting this morning where people

005said you know it was it was a three-ring circus and so in the future um i'm not an expert on on robert's rules of order but i'm going to try my best that you know when someone wants to make an amendment we stop we vote on the amendment when someone calls the question and anybody i'm told by mrs d agressa anyone can call the question we stop and we vote if there's a second to calling the question then we can vote on calling the question and then we can vote on the question it sounds confusing but it was very difficult to follow if you were watching this online and if you went back and looked at it i think most of us would be at least i'm embarrassed that it was ended up the manner

006in which not the decisions made but the manner in which as somebody said the sausage was made the last thing i'd like to say is that when i ran for school board i ran because i thought i could help a new superintendent and work with the colleagues and having watched some of the dysfunction of the previous board that we could focus on improving the educational outcomes for students and it seems to me for the last i don't know how long all we do is talk about mass critical race theory and whether equities in a proper term to having a job description and i would respectfully request of the superintendent and my colleagues that we start to focus on on academic achievement we start to focus on giving the superintendent and his team the support that

007they need in order to improve the learning outcomes for all students and this mass thing is behind us there's nothing more to say the emergency order was withdrawn it had been challenged in the courts and by the way successfully and it wouldn't have been withdrawn if it if the governor and his team had known that it was not as well written as it could have been the second emergency order was very clear and dr moore quickly implemented consistent with that emergency order there were no laws broken as mrs d aggressed on two different occasions reminded us despite what some people seem to think so i would i would hope that going forward as we add things to workshop agendas whether it's the boards or the superintendents that we keep the focus on academics and that's

008what's best for kids uh and as far as today's agenda is concerned uh and uh dr jones lucky her is going to lead this facilitation of protocols and and i'm sure dr moore has some points of view as well keep in mind as we debate some of the points that perhaps people may have different points of view on keep in mind what we don't want to have a repeat of was last two weeks ago tuesday night people are entitled to their opinion they're not entitled to their own set of facts and so that's really all i wanted to say mrs barenborg welcome i hope you're feeling better and mrs barenborg is on on teams and at this point i would like to turn it over to the superintendent go ahead just a initial response i

009think you are correct we need to keep our focus in on teaching and learning i think over the last 18 months only been here for about 20 months there has been a great sense of divide and reactionary response responding to the pandemic and as i have told the team the uh principles we have created opportunities for us to respond to something that is brand new because we had to respond to it and as we begin to pivot back to what is normal it is exciting to engage in conversations that are purely about teaching and learning not reacting to a new mitigation strategy or response but digging into deep conversations around the complexity of teaching a children within a community so it's exciting to move that work forward as it relates to the last board meeting

010i i this board has been challenged as all boards have been challenged to make very very complex difficult uh decisions in the midst of a very divided community not only here but ultimately across all of our counties throughout the state ultimately our our nation but i respectfully submit to the board that this is the most important board in this community in all other communities that we are responsible for the policy the procedures and implementation of education for all children from sebastian uh all the way to indian river academy and as as we strive to do this work we strive to do that work together and each and every single one of us is determined and has a mindset to be in the best interest of children so looking forward to continuing to engage in that

011work as we look at today's agenda the first item even though it's the superintendent workshop has agreed at the last meeting i would uh yield almost all of my time to the board so we could finish up the protocols that we've been working on for for quite some time as you mentioned dr jacobs is here to help facilitate that conversation and she's got her posters and she's been working very hard to help engage the board in that that conversation the first item under the protocols is the board um i'm sorry it is the public information or public public public hearing and for that that's that dr jones will facilitate that conversation so you want the citizen input for citizens what i meant to say thank you well first of all thank you to dr moore

012for giving us time during this workshop i appreciate it and thank you dr jacobs for all of your work and aligning everything and to all board members um giving input again a protocol is not a policy and hopefully we can have a consensus may not agree with every word on there but we agreed to move forward because it's in the best interest of the school board one thing i said last week or the last board meeting i attended a zoo meeting with florida school board association about 27 counties were represented and they were talking about the volatility at the meetings and what was happening and one thing that was very clear as they said the business business of the board comes first and how how can we do that um there have been many issues

013that maybe they have talked about what some have done as far as citizen input a certain amount of time people could speak so long representatives from each group can speak and i went over that last time as mr barefoot and dr morav said is you know we're here to do the business of the board and i know that's why every one of us was elected so that we could do the business the board because this is about the education of the students here in indie river county in a public school system and when i look back at the meetings i too will review especially the last meeting where we had 42 speakers i've been here 10 months and every every month has or every board meetings been relative to mask and please please understand no

014one says that isn't important but as we move forward with our power bi on school by school and the coding by color i think we've done well but we know some other things may come up because this is a platform across the united states we've dealt with critical race theory we've dealt with equity mask textbook adoption lgbtq these things will come up i just want to make sure that we get the business of the board finished that does not mean that we don't have someone speak to an item if it's consent or action that's fine that's where i want to hear something what is it specifically to the consent or action item that is not changing so when i look at all this and i i think again the last meeting where signs were held

015up some were derogatory to the superintendent some blocked other people and it's just basically where the meeting is taken over with topics that we're not even at sometimes discussing during that meeting citizen input is to the board they also talked about not taping citizen input not putting it in details in minutes but i just think we need to practice putting our business first look at look at some of our officials congress you don't get to talk state board of education have you ever been on the call there thirty minutes and you're cut off immediately if it's not regarded to the topic so we when i look at this i i think about what are we modeling for the students in this county what are we expecting for the students and staff in this county we're

016expecting that we do our business we expect dr moore to do his business as a ceo day-to-day we accept expect principals to run their schools day-to-day we expect teachers to run their classrooms day-to-day and we expect students to do the work so we all have to work together as a team so before we even get into the protocols you know i'd like feedback on that and actually dr moore tonight i want you to bring to this board and i know it has to be voted upon if it's a new policy 30 days out there what we can do to put the business of the board through i know some schools or districts start at four i'm not saying that but just something something so that we can do this the 42 speakers went until about

017nine o'clock last time and that's when we started the business of the board so again so it's not taken out of context consent and action items if you wish to speak on specifically and we may have to change that form a little bit i don't know as as far as what you want to speak about but you know we're all hired to do the job we're not here to satisfy any political party my only responsibility i should probably most of you agree is to the students in the school system so the citizen input is important when we talk about consent in action but the business of the board has to be done first so we are doing at a time it's not nine or ten o'clock when we're making important decisions so just feedback from

018the board members and then again dr jacobs whenever we get started on protocol this will be a consensus i know we've done the master board training and i hope that we'll get to protocol's consensus sometime soon thank you dr moore um dr schiff you want to begin i suppose the short version is bravo to both of you what i appreciate is it is what i hear is your attention to putting the the professionalism of the board first in everything we do obviously in the interests of students in in the district students faculty staff and the this is hard sitting here it was easier when i was on the end it's the advantage of being at the end right um but it i i have once too many times seen where any number of us have

019misspoke because it's late we're tired we've been in meetings for six seven eight ten hours and i and we can't that is a disservice to the business of the district so i don't yet know exactly what form that will take i agree with you that we need um to in what i hear you both saying and i'll reiterate and you can tell me if this is what you're saying is that it is it is important that we have the input of our community we want to hear that and we welcome that we welcome it as it furthers the business of the board for that evening um there are sometimes things that are important for us to hear that may not be on the meeting but they cannot interfere with doing the business of the board

020as conscientiously as possible so thank you both actually for your comments and for uh what i hear as as your desire to elevate the professionalism of the board and of our meetings that's good mrs rosario um i'm a little confused as to what you're proposing are you proposing a change in policy right now i'm asking to bring something back from policy well i i would actually say uh that we hold off on that because that's not on our agenda and this board member was not prepared to have that discussion so i think that's kind of if we're going to stick with the agenda and the integrity of the agenda then we should actually do that because then you catch board members by surprise and the citizens by surprise and um i just don't think that

021now is the time for us to talk about that i would ask that you put it on a future agenda for discussion so that we can have that discussion appropriately but since you brought it up now i would just reiterate our responsibility to the public as elected officials we have board policy um one titled public participation at board meetings and another one titled the purpose of the board serves a dual responsibility the dual responsibility is to implement statutory requirements pertaining to public education and for meeting the desires of the citizens so that dual responsibility for us really talks about our obviously our work here at the board for bird board purposes for the district purposes but also to speak on behalf of the citizens who elect us who elected us so essentially we are to

022act as truly representative body bodies for the citizens in all matters related to programs and operations so i want to talk about a uh piggyback off of something that you said mr barefoot about our job is strictly policy our job is not strictly policy policy is a big part of our job but our job is also to oversee dr moore and our other employee is our school board attorney and that encompasses a lot of things if it didn't it wouldn't have come to us for a vote if it wasn't something that we needed to address it wouldn't have come to us for that discussion and for that vote so my responsibility to the citizens is not to silence their vote their voice we are not here to silence people we should not be here to

023silence them it's interesting how you know at the moment someone disagrees with you is the moment that you want to turn off the cameras is the moment that you want to turn off the audio or is the moment that you want to change policy so that people can't disagree with you i am absolutely not for silencing anyone we can't change things because people disagree with you i mean we're allowed to have disagreements we should be able to have those disagreements i do agree however that it should be respectful i do agree however that there shouldn't be yelling and screaming and you know carrying on in fact you mr barefoot cursed a couple of times at our last meetings during the day yes pull it up you cursed mrs barenborg is shaking her head you cursed

024during the day and you uh said some inappropriate words during the the the board meeting i mean it's if we're going to ask for people to behave appropriately or respectfully then i think that it should be modeled and i appreciate that you said that you would take responsibility for that but i also think that self-reflection um can only go so far if we're not actually going to model it public participation at board meetings this is not the opportunity for us to talk about it i do hope that you do bring it back so that we can be prepared to have that discussion our discussion today was supposed to be about board protocol we have a lot to discuss about with board protocol a lot and then the superintendent added some other items here which originally

025we were only supposed to have board protocol on this agenda so right away we're having a hijacking of our meeting once again so i would rather not have this discussion now mrs jones if you uh dr jones if you want to bring it back i i certainly hope that you can do that at a later date this is baronborg yeah thank you um i was really not in my head about that i have a delay so i apologize um a couple things i agree with you about respecting the superintendent absolutely everyone on that diet should be respected um speaking for myself i know last time it was very heated um we have been talking about mask for a long time but again you know you sat in the room you know what the um citizen

026input is like and we had to make a decision when the superintendent brings something up and and just personally i felt and i'm sure other board members felt this way that i was cut off several times when i was trying to speak and it gets frustrating and the call for the question was asked several times without the chair um acting on it so it does help to know robert's rules yes but i also um don't agree with your one point that you made which was that we shouldn't be getting into the nitty-gritty you're right we shouldn't but when the superintendent brings up an item especially that tiered mitigation it is the board's responsibility not to agree with everything but to look it over with the critical eye and to assess whether or not it's something

027that is beneficial for our students and our staff and um we have the right to change it once and that's what i was bringing up to the superintendent i apologize if it sounded like i was being disrespectful but respectfully and that's what i said respectfully when the superintendent gives us an item to vote on it's not rubber stamped we have the right to adjust it or um vote it down or vote it up that's our choice and um that's what happened and we have the right to do that and adapt it so vote something down if you don't agree with it that's fine um but the doe doh aligned with our change and because we acted quickly it allowed dr moore to make that change very easily last week and i appreciate dr moore enacting

028on that right away because all i was trying to do was align us with what i knew was coming down the pike and i didn't want indian river county to spend money tax dollars on litigation and i didn't want indian river county to be the limelight of all this action anymore i want us to focus on teaching and learning and i think that we can finally start moving that direction and i appreciate the fact that um your words have been said they've been understood i also think that you need to understand that um all of us have the right to to make that change if you bring something forward dr dr jones thank you to everyone for input going back to last meeting you know people talked about the changes but when we left that

029workshop at 5 p.m we were all in a great consensus with the tier mitigation and that it would start in two weeks and then when the meeting started someone said well let's start it tomorrow or monday and yes here's the thing the superintendent and the principals did get it done but at what cost so if we're going to discuss it in workshop and then change for certain reasons in the meeting i just don't think that's fair as far as responsible to the public i've lived that for 40 years here i know we're responsible to the public and what we are responsible for is the education of the students in indian river county i know that's very important we're not trying to silence anyone we're saying if you have an item you wish to speak about

030with consent or action that is fine otherwise that comes after the business of the meeting that is what i'm thinking so i'm not sure as far as the workshop but i would still like to have something move come forward because if it is policy like we're talking about one policy to date it has to remain out there for 30 days so this is something that i think in the citizen input was at the end of our protocols that i put the first time so i didn't mean to hijack any meeting that was just part of the notes if you look in the notes that have been run up for us so i'm still asking mr barefoot and dr moore to have something brought back to us tonight so we can look at it it can

031get out there for 30 days we can hear from people again people talking about action or consent items that's absolutely fine specific to what we are talking about but not two and three hours before we get to a business meeting mr barefoot so i'm still requesting that um yeah i don't i don't think anybody is suggesting that we limit citizen input citizen input as it relates to the business of the board that evening is welcome and last meeting every citizen spoke to action which was adapting um you know mass policy that was entirely appropriate and there were 42 people that spoke when it started you know you didn't know because our form does not indicate at least with one or two exceptions that they want to speak to an action item they just check i

032want to speak we need to revise the form and have it be more specific at a point in time but i am under the impression that citizen input is very much a part of what this discussion this afternoon was supposed to be we've talked about it before and i don't see any anything wrong with bringing back a recommendation on how we can be more efficient get the business of the board at the same time allow any citizen on any topic to speak to that topic but the priority has to be around action items that evening after the act business of the board is complete i'm fine with having people sp speak on something of interest to them i agree that dr schiff said that the community has points of view and sometimes sees or hears

033things before we do and it's good to know what they are and to bring them forward uh that was that was uh a lot of those different topics that were not action related have been brought forth in other meetings not the meeting immediately passed and miss rosario as far as me cursing i'd like to rem i'd like you to to show me where i cursed in the workshop you said bs you can you can play back well and and i think i said quote unquote no you actually said the entire word what what word did i use in the business meeting um gosh right now like it was at the beginning yeah well before before you make an accusation like that why don't why don't you get your facts straight i am i we certainly

034can and i absolutely will bring it why don't why don't you let me know any other board members here who saw that who heard the bs thank you any other board members here the bs i just said i'm sure i did say that but i want you to tell me where in the business meeting okay i will go back to the business meeting and i will find it for you but with regard to the workshop you're you're kind of you're overstepping even just that to try to focus on the business meeting why not address the one that many board members are agreeing they heard during the workshop you've made your point i've made my point let's move on thank you dr um schiff for raising your hand you heard it right no that's not why

035i was wrong i'm sorry i apologize i thought that was true i i uh i can't comment on that if i heard it it went over my head i didn't hear it at the business meeting i'd have to go back and review the tape that's not why i was raising my hand okay i apologize i was raising my hand mr chairman is that as to meeting expectations um it's on page eight of the protocols that we were scheduled to discuss today and through the document where we all commented and we added and we talked about the board meetings um it's on page 27 it's on others i wasn't prepared to to bring page notes about where citizen input was but it is in this document that's here for us to talk about today and that

036was put online consistent with posting articles prior to board meetings dr moore uh through the chair talk about it then we should talk about it when we get to that yes i'm sorry dr moore's got this is the item that's my point it was it was it's on the agenda with board protocols that was posted seven days ago for today's meeting but to talk about okay uh that's enough we understand you disagree uh dr moore go ahead just to bring a level of clarity dr jones asked me to create this item i did so if you look on the item as it was posted here is just the title of the actual item it lists three particular areas of discussion the first one is business meeting slash citizen input so it has been on the

037agenda it has not been modified it's been posted for seven days um one a comment that um that mr rosario said was that oversight of dr moore what what when when you say oversight of dr moore what is what does that mean i know what it means to me what does that mean to you we evaluate him right we give him an evaluation we evaluate the superintendent's work that's right on an annual basis that's absolutely correct right but what but but and on a weekly basis he provides for us items that are happening in this in the district items that are for discussion items that are coming up for us there's there's a lot that that's not oversight he's making recommendations that's not oversized evaluation is not oversight on an annual basis that's part of

038our responsibilities is to we don't evaluate everything he says at every meeting there's one thing to make a recognition not finished speaking please what is oversight so i answered it if we're having a disagreement about that we can disagree at another time i'd like to get back to the agenda all right on the agenda the first item is board protocols the first item of board protocols is business meeting agenda and citizen input so that's the agenda that's exactly right so we can start there or we can go to to the the long complicated document uh where dr jacobs will facilitate this conversation thank you in advance oh got it oh i'm sorry mrs barenborg yeah i just wanted to say um we did discuss last time i agree with dr jones that we did discuss

039last time that um the thing that was urgent to talk about first was um citizen input because it's been obviously dragging our meetings down but also it's important to hear so i think what we need to do is clarify that first so we're very clear as a board as to what we want to have happen for our citizen input what time and how long and what items come first and second i agree with dr jones i think we need to keep all of the items that people are concerned about that are on our agenda first and then any items that people want to bring up that aren't on our agenda i agree with that can come after the meeting i know that makes people have to stay through it a lot of the people are

040staying through it or they can come later or they can email us like other people do i know of several boards that do that and it helps to run a very smooth meeting and that way you're getting the business of the board done and then the other question is whether or not you want everything on camera or not because you don't necessarily have to thank you mrs rosario um i you know it sounds like there's going to be consensus for this even though i disagree but i will share that orange county schools orange county public schools has a board protocol for their agenda they have one for their board meeting and then they have one that's called pre-agenda public comment period protocol and basically what they have there is um public comment in person for

041the business meeting would be public comment on an agenda item in person and then for the pre-agenda public comment instead of having public comment at the end of an agenda they have it at the begin before the business meeting so it reads the pre-agenda public comment period shall begin promptly at 4 pm and conclude no later than 30 minutes after commencing it essentially the purpose of that pre would kind of satisfy what you all are are discussing and it's the public can can comment on germain topics that are related to the work of the school board but are not on the school board agenda for that meeting so i if you're going to do it based on consensus i would based on your con all of your consensus not mine i would ask that you

042consider doing it before the board meeting not after we have parents who have young kids we have single families we have people who may not be able to have get you know child care or care for older elderly you know parents in their home so i would just put the citizens comments before the public meeting if they are jermaine and not on the agenda topic does that are you suggesting we start that we don't call the meeting to order officially at six o'clock we start at 5 or we we officially start the meeting at 6 30 and providing from 6 to 6 30 for non-agenda related items i mean i'm fine with either if that's in fact what you're suggesting five i i think f not four five o'clock no i saw so it could

043be any time earlier just yeah dr jones i was just going to ask dr moore what his thoughts are obviously you know i've looked at a few other counties also what what are your thoughts on this as far as time that we start time that we start the business meeting obviously action and consent they can talk to what are your thoughts through the chat my role responsibility here is brief responsibility is to listen and then see if i can't come up with consensus because i'm being asked to put together an item for this evening i can tell you at this point i i don't have enough information to do that if you're asking for my particular point of view i think we could do the performances which we're getting back to tonight as well as

044the citizen recognitions or school site recognitions maybe that can start at 5 30. once again my goal here is to honor the time that we have as a system what ms berenborg was was saying and she asked a question and didn't get a response was items that are specific to the agenda items whether it is consent or action and mrs barrenborg i don't if i'm not getting this correctly please please correct me those individuals would speak prior to any action being taken by the board so if we're voting on something that evening whether it is on consent or whether it is on action those individuals would fill out the card yes mr barefoot we'd have to modify the card now i'm going to sign up to speak to you know c2 or whatever that item

045would be they come they provide those comments the board now has those thoughts or that input to consider prior to making a vote and then what ms varenborg referenced was all other information that is pertinent for the board to hear but not associated to an agenda item that particular eating meaning that information would be shared following the business of the board so so instead of speaking directly to an action item at that time everything would be before through the chair i think that's that is honoring everyone's time i think if individuals came to speak and you know let's keep in mind i come from a place where a board meeting started at 11 a.m and ended at 8 or 9 30. how many board meetings did you have a month one okay okay so there's

046and they spoke throughout the day so if an individual wanted to speak to an item they may they did not know when that item would come they would have to be sitting there for sometimes hours same thing would hold true because through as we move through the agenda and actually talk about teaching and learning some type topics may take longer but if you have that input ahead of time right um then you have it and if that community member could stay that's great but ultimately we want to honor their time as well i think they would know if a meeting started at 5 30 we typically schedule 15 to 20 minutes of presentations sometime they take a little bit longer sometimes they take a little bit shorter but every community member would know i need

047to speak or share my input you know i've sent emails i've made phone calls but i still want to come in and share my input i'm going to be heard around 5 45 to 6 o'clock you're you're you're good to go um or be here you know because what right now the currently policy is you have to sign up before the meeting starts and if that continues to be true um then you would have to be here at 5 30 and then you'll be speaking by 546 and then the other items that are not specific to the agenda or action being taken or consent would be heard after the fact ms rosario's recommendation just was uh maybe to bifurcate the uh the two but hear them all prior to the business of the board so

048that and i'm sorry i didn't suggest presentations before the board meeting all i was suggesting is just in terms of public comments right just public comment and then miss rosario i'm sorry ms berenborg mentioned uh on camera off camera and there was no no response so if i'm to craft an item i would appreciate feedback no on camera without question mrs dr schiff so a couple things um based on the conversations i've just been hearing mrs rosario you referenced the orange county policy i just looked that up and and since this was not information we had prior to the meeting you may have it we didn't have it i've looked it up on my computer and i want to read some of that because it may be germane to this conversation and there are parts

049of it in addition to what you may have said that may be helpful members uh public comment period members of the public shall be able to address the school board of orange county during a public comment period at the beginning of any regularly scheduled board meeting the public comment period shall begin promptly at 4 30 we could adjust that and conclude no later than 30 minutes after commencing if there are no speakers present the public comment period may be concluded prior to the expiration of the 30 minutes a lot of time for speakers i'm not reading the entire thing because i'm not going to i'm not going to read through the whole document i can send a link to mrs poiselle who can forward it to board members during the public comment period no speaker

050shall have more than three minutes no speaker may transfer or designate his or her time to another speaker we've talked about that speakers shall complete a public comment card prior to addressing the board and may sign up to speak 15 minutes prior to the start of the public comment period the order of the speakers we have that signing up to speak does not guarantee an opportunity to address the board during that meeting's public comment period if the allotted 30 minutes for the public comment period expires those who signed up to speak but did not get a chance to speak will need to return to a subsequently regularly scheduled board meeting and sign up to speak no preference in the speaking order will be given in subsequent meetings for those that were unable to address the

051board in a prior meeting by motion of the board the limitations on time in this paragraph may be waived or amended last thing i'm going to read because i'm not going to go through the whole policy germain topics speakers may only address the board on germain topics that are related to the work of the board the public comment shall be reserved for any speakers wishing to address topics not on the board's agenda for that meeting the following topics or speakers are not permitted during the public comment period regular agenda items speakers wishing to address items or issues on the regular board meeting agenda will be asked to return and address the board during the public comment period for the item in question b solicitations or procurement items c quasi quasi judicial matters d student or

052employee discipline matters e labor matters those are all not permitted during public comment all of this suffice it to say says that before a meeting there are 30 minutes you can sign up if you get to something that's not on the agenda if you get in on those 30 minutes terrific we'd love to hear from you if not we will schedule another time to hear from you if you are speaking to something specific on the agenda we'll hear that as we've talked about at the time of the consent or the action agita and item to which you're speaking that's the orange county policy not in its entirety but but um more specific to some of the things that you mentioned those are not bad policies orange county is a big district as was miami as

053we've said any number of times and you mrs rosario yourself has said this is you specifically said in an email this is not a public meeting this is a business meeting of the board held in the public that said if that's the case then what our job in these meetings to do is to do the business of the board that's our job that's what we're here for law requires that we do that in the sunshine so let's create a workable policy where we can engage with citizens on matters that come before the board where we set aside a particular time to hear from citizens on matters they think it's important that we know but may not be on that agenda we will limit the time when we can hear that they are welcome to write

054to us at any time as many do and we can get on with the business of the board before 10 o'clock at night um dr moore as to honor off camera um i think i agree with you off camera we still hear the comments we're still well aware of what people are saying but it becomes less about grandstanding and more about being heard by the board um in a public space are you clear on what we want i i am digesting but but what i'm hearing is there's some there's some things in the orange county policy that makes sense i think what miss barenborg recommended is very very similar the only difference would be pulling the information for the items that are not associated to the agenda that particular evening to after the business of

055the board uh and that we have um somewhere on the in the form that says specifically what you're speaking to so when we so we know exactly whether someone is prior to the meeting or to a and i would modify that form just a point of clarity i was asking i was just asking for input ms berenborg said on or off camera i think what she was referring to was the the port the portion of the meeting or the public hearing that was after would not be on on tv and that would i would need clarity on that mrs yes mrs barrinborg go ahead yeah thank you um i i have no problem with what mr zarya brought forward i think dr schiff also mentioned it um moving those to before the meeting so that

056way we're respectful to those people that come out and they don't have to wait until 10 o'clock at night to speak um i agree i think you know come and talk to us about whatever you want before the meeting um maybe not on camera and then um once we start the meeting then the meeting is focusing on what is exactly on our agenda so at that point anybody that wants to speak to what's an agenda item i'm fine with that being on camera um i think what we want to get away from is like you said grandstanding um in the past this district has had some issues with that where people came and they you know were running for election or whatever else was going on they wanted that camera time and we know we

057all know that that camera time is being used for other things social media wherever is that taking away from the business of the board that's what we've got to ask ourselves so we want to focus on the business of the board i think having people speak ahead of time maybe limiting the time and saying you know everybody gets two minutes instead of three minutes or whatever it is you want to come up with let them speak about any topic but then have after the board meeting starts at six o'clock the citizen input that we hear is either before the whole meeting or right before the action item or consent item that we're going to vote on uh dr schiff if the other thing that happens if we are going to start our business meeting earlier

058so if we're going to start it at 5 30 to hear those comments i think we sometimes run over in the workshop if there's a lot to talk about the workshop is supposed to go till four it often goes till 4 30 or later that gives very l limited time to do business we may want or need to do in between meetings so i think we need to be conscious of that and perhaps consider starting the workshops earlier or something that backs it up so that we get the break that staff needs that we need in between meetings uh mrs rosario yeah i i think dr schiff has a point about starting our meetings earlier and not going over the workshops sorry the workshops i think that that sounds doable uh whenever we have workshops

059started at i don't know 11 or 12 and so we would have plenty of time to have that break in between i did not suggest and bringing up orange county was not a suggestion to add all of the other items that dr schiff mentioned my suggestion was simply the timing of the public comments that are not agenda driven comments that are not agenda-driven instead of having it at the end of the meeting have it at this pre-meeting time orange county calls it a pre-agenda public comment period so essentially those could be on anything they started an hour before their public meeting if you all want to do a half hour before our public meeting that's fine if we have many if we have too many comments if we're taking those pre-agenda comments at 4 3

060i'm kind of walking this through in my mind if we take those at 5 30 and we begin at 5 30 until 6 if they come in on a first come first serve basis after a half hour if we still have people who have not spoken during that pre-period time we would then need to a put those people at the end of our meeting or start our meeting at five instead of 5 30. this way we're sure not to have any extras at the end of a meeting does that make sense uh dr jones thank you i'm just kind of circling back to what i said in the very beginning um i just want to make sure that we put the business of the board as a priority having people speak before you know i'd

061be okay with that i think we have to do a time limit whether it's five to six or whatever it may be but when people speak to the action or consent items and again there could be 40 people speaking on an action item so you know there's something i'd want to limit so we could get to the business of the board by maybe 7 7 30 p.m and then continue at that that afterwards i'm trying to get us to get to the business of the board before 9 00 pm and if we have a pre meeting where you can speak about anything which is fine if we denote that five to six um and then when they speak to action or consent items and we see that there are 40 or 50 we've got to

062do a little bit of a time limit we're still listen but we've got to get to the business aboard till aft you know maybe they they could go after the meeting or that were finished i mean just like all other board members i get a lot of emails and calls and people talk to us regarding issues on our agenda we've got a packed agenda tonight so um and hopefully you know we'll get through all of that but i just you know want to say whatever we're doing whatever our consensus is and it's been a good discussion is to keep the business of the board as a priority one thing that some boards have done is allow a certain amount of time for citizen input and then however many you know in these different places and

063then however many people sign up is what determines the amount of time each individual has that way every individual gets to be heard but we're not doing the business at 9 30 at night i'm not advocating for i'm suggesting it as a possibility that some boards have done yeah and in that regard mrs barrinborg wanted but in that regard one of the things i read for like 30 minutes that they're 15 speakers they each get two minutes that's what i just said that's exactly what it is it's a specific example an amount of time if they're sport 40 speakers they get a minute if there's 20 i mean i have to calculate do the math uh mrs barenborg you had your hand up yeah um i wanted to speak to another point when dr ship

064brought up something that orange county was doing there were three things that she brought up that i thought were really important for us to consider one is when people speak about personnel issues we've had that happen where people will sit there and talk about a teacher whether or not we want to let that continue because personnel issues really shouldn't be taking place like that at the diocese the other thing is uh student issues when somebody has an issue with this particular student we've had a couple of them come up and the person is advocating for their child or whatever we've actually had two come up that were charter school parents that were sitting there and they didn't understand that they could go to their charter school school board and there was a third one i'm

065not sure doctor shift what it was it was personnel issues student issues what was the third one uh solicit uh quasi judicial matters labor matters it could be anything right by the way um i've forwarded the link to both mrs poissell and mrs esplan to forward to board members so you'll be able to see it okay and and i think those are important points because we have allowed some of that stuff to happen at our um board meetings which does kind of um lag the meeting there have been a times where people bring up um personnel issues that the superintendent wasn't even aware of um that could have probably and they did get handled by the superintendent privately and um had that the parents had knowledge of what was happening i think they wouldn't have

066been able to um get as frustrated and come and speak so i think that that's an issue that we really want to look at is is those items that orange county has in their policy the um if we're going to and i think that those suggestions uh have have merits certainly uh we're not in a position and we nor should we be in being involved in personnel issues that's the best that's the superintendent and the staff's job uh but educating the public as to those are not items that should be brought forward in public comment um i'm not sure unless unless that is on the form that you know you you're no public comment on personnel matters and no public comment on individual student issues because otherwise the public you can imagine people showing up

067and wanting to talk about you know what whoever it is for whatever reason getting here and they start to talk and you find out they want to talk about something that we've already got a policy against so there's a educational call it component to this that that'll be required uh dr marco hello through i think we mentioned some of that or reference it during the script that's read prior to the public hearing but including some of those and bold letters on the form as we update it would also be beneficial so if i could just summarize kind of what i'm hearing um maybe 5 30 to 6 would be the the pre-public hearing which would be off camera um that's the opportunity for public to come to speak to the board specifically about whatever they

068would like open the meeting at six o'clock go through our presentations whatever that may be and then have the public hearing which is associated to items that are on the agenda speaking specifically to agendas uh and then the meeting would flow from there that's kind of the consensus of what i'm capturing also hearing if there's the number of speakers at three minutes exceeds the 30 minutes provided we could then divide up the time based on the number of speakers to give them x number of minutes to be done within that particular 30 minute process let's just summarizing what i'm hearing um mrs rosario yeah i don't think we need to do that three minute that time period crunch because if we are now moving public comment that of comments that are not on the agenda

069to the pre-agenda whatever we're going to call it the pre-agenda public comments we're not going to have such a an issue we're not going to have an issue of having exceeding you know public comments during the board meeting during the actual board meeting um so i don't think we it should really be an issue i really don't um in terms of capping going from three minutes to two minutes if there are too many obviously i think we're mitigating some of that now with the idea of non-agenda items pre-meeting time i also i know that statute mrs d agresta if you can clarify this i know that statute is very clear about public meetings being recorded statute says that the recording it has to be recorded but it's not clear as to whether that recording is

070video or audio recorded it's my understanding that it could be either because they're all public they're all subject to public records once a meeting is um convened can you please clarify that for us there is no statutory requirement to either video or audio record any public meeting the um sunshine law requires that we have meeting minutes you may if you wish and our policy says we'll have a recording for administrative purposes so that the person who is doing the minutes can actually go back and refer to any recording to be sure that they're getting the minutes correctly but the the law requires meeting minutes under the sunshine law interesting because i'm looking at a statute right now that very clearly says recorded and which statutory one 286.011 it's public meetings and records public inspection and

071criminal and civil uh penalties yes if you request excuse me absolutely yeah thank you number two the minutes of a meeting of any such board or commission of any such state agency or authority shall be prompted shall be promptly recorded and such records shall be open to public inspection of course there's much more here that's not talking about a video or audio recording that means the minutes must be recorded we can't allow the the um the secretary or the executive assistant whoever is taking our minutes for this meeting we can't allow them to wait for weeks or months before those minutes are prepared the minutes must be prepared and then submitted to the board for approval at the following business meeting so that the minutes must be promptly recorded meaning they must be promptly prepared

072so that they can be approved at the next meeting so if we have public comments on uh not recorded if we do this pre-recording pre-agenda public comments time and uh citizens come they talk if we do not have it recorded and we're just taking minutes how can we accurately because minutes are not word by word or you know transcript by transcript minutes can be summarized based on the person who is actually taking those minutes um it doesn't necessarily mean that that person's perspective they're taking minutes on something that uh could be important enough to be taken those minutes on whereas someone else's minutes might look quite differently in terms of outline so how can we be held i suppose accountable to rightly account for what people say or be held accountable for a public responding

073to a public comment in a situation like that if we're not recording it okay we're not audio or video recording and we're only taking handwritten minutes how does that work um absolutely and this is going to age me i'm afraid uh but back when i first started representing school boards there were no audio recordings there were no video recordings there was an individual who sat on the side of a board meeting and they took notes very quickly and those minutes once they are typed up are then reviewed by the responsible individuals to verify the information is correct for some uh school board clients that i had way back that was one of the jobs of the school board attorney was to take those notes and to verify that the motions and seconds and votes that

074were in the minutes are accurate so having lived that life of no video and audio recordings you just have to take good notes so why is it that when we start a meeting there's such an importance on is the video on we have to get the video on before we actually say anything and call the meeting to order that that's a self-imposed obligation mrs rosario school boards do it to themselves but we don't have but we've heard that from you we've no no ma'am i've heard you say we have to wait for the video or we have to wait for the only time i will ever tell you we have to wait is when we are in a closed litigation session and i ask that we wait until the court reporter is ready to start

075because a close litigation session requires a full transcript and i need the court reporter to be ready to go before anyone starts speaking but otherwise there is no legal obligation to have a video or audio recording of a board so we can have our business meeting without video yes ma'am we can have our business meeting without audio yes ma'am but yet we have to audio tape um some of the fsba trainings and things like that we have to audio tape some meetings that we are in and not others why is that um when you say have to you do not have to record any fsba training that was something that was locally decided and you have implemented it going forward there is a provision under the public procurement laws that require that certain selection committees

076with regard to construction work some of those meetings must be audio recorded i'm trying to think of an of a of an obligation there is an obligation as i mentioned for litigation closed sessions those must be have a transcript by a court reporter i'm i'm not there might be one other but i am not remembering any other statutory obligation to record this is something that is done locally when i was mayor of the shores we had no video but everything was recorded because the clerk had to record those minutes and you know after a two or three or four hour meeting there's no way that your notes your minute your handwriting can accurately you know reflect what was discussed so the recording actually is a necessary tool in my view for the clerk who's got

077to produce the minutes in a timely fashion the video part of it is unnecessary it's just a practical standpoint so if i can finish my thoughts please the um with regard to the pre-agenda meeting recording the pre-agenda meeting i i think that that's important if we're meeting for consistency purposes we should have the cameras on with regard to the public comments during a business meeting a convened business meeting um in the public um if we're having the cameras on the camera should be on uh citizens as well there's a port there's a part there's always when i go home i always re-watch the meetings and oftentimes i don't always have my notes in front of me and i can very easily go to a particular citizen listen to them and respond to them outside of

078the meeting for example not having the video on them makes it very difficult for someone to for me or for anybody to go back and listen and try to discern was that that person was that that you know i know you can go back and hear the name of the person being called but um it makes a big difference when you um are able to capture the entire the entirety of the duly convened meeting appropriately so that's just my take on that dr jones i know i know we need to wrap this up to get onto protocols but just so i'm clear whether the pre-agenda meeting is 5 or 5 30 that's for off topic i don't think that should be on camera i'm going to date myself even longer than you maybe miss poisel

079remembers but you had to get this local tv station 20 some years ago to get deportment other than that you didn't see the board meeting now the business meeting when people are speaking to the action or consent item i'm fine with that um being taped because that's important as far as the board hearing that but i just still want to make sure if we've got 45 people talking on an action item we need to get to the business of the meeting before nine o'clock so if we do that we just have to have some kind of time limit there because i think we've all said it one way or the other we're here for the students in indie river county and we need to get the business of the board done that's why we were

080elected doctor ship two things about the broadcasting again in the orange county policy it says the board reserves the right to record preserve broadcast and or re-broadcast including live streaming any portion of the public comment period however this provision does not require the board to record preserve or otherwise broadcast or rebroadcast any portion of the public comment period that may be something we want to consider um i agree mrs behrenborg about people coming to put to public comment for purposes other than communicating directly with the board i think that takes away from the business of the board um and there is no legal obligation for us to take to tape that portion or to have the camera on on citizens so i i really do think we need to um address that i think last

081week well i could support not having that on public comment only because of sorry having the camera on speakers during public comment um given the disruptions that we've had and the very intentional disruptions that we've had in some ways in some of the materials that i forwarded to board members and i'm not sure one of the things that is also true about this and i'm not sure exactly when we discuss that but it's not only what happens in the room it's also what happens outside of the room in the lobby and what's happened is that that's become very disruptive and it's become very difficult at times for people to be in that space who may want to address the board there are policies um for example i forwarded some charlotte county facility rules that says

082any uh anyone failing to immediately cease audio or video recording of any visitor employee or county official who is not directly performing public duties and who has expressed a desire not to be recorded will be immediately trespassed without warning we've seen people being recorded both in the room and in the lobby against their well not of the board we're on camera that's our job i get it but i'm concerned about citizens being comfortable in that space and there's also some information on the um orange county code of civility that addresses how people behave when on school board premises whether or not it's in the room i'm not sure what part of board protocols that falls under but there's been behavior in this building and in this lobby and in other spaces that is a disservice

083to the work that we do and is threatening and intimidating for students who may want to come speak to the board and i think it's our job to maintain civility and respect in those spaces mrs barrenborg yeah doctorship puts up a good point um there have been and i'm sure you guys have seen this things that have gone viral about people that are speaking to school boards across the nation this is happening not just here obviously um one gentleman who um stripped down to his underwear so you know we can't control what someone is going to do at that podium and um do we the question is do we want them to have the camera on them or not um and is it our responsibility or their right that's the question i don't know um

084i'm very back and forth on this because i do feel like citizens need to have the right to speak and the right to have their time whether or not that right um needs to be on camera i'm not quite sure well and mrs barenborg that brings up the point of who are they speaking to are they speaking to be on camera and to the public or are they coming to specifically address the board which is the point of our board business meetings so you know i agree this is not about silencing this is not about negating citizen import but you're right things happen that we can't necessarily control people are filmed against their will people grandstand and put on public performance when the point of that is to have a communication to the board so

085that the board hears the concern of a citizen those are different things i agree with you mrs diagra um i recall and i don't have it here in front of me and i might be wrong but i recall in some of the research that i've done recently that there is statute that says that citizens can record on their own devices public publicly held meetings if they attend those publicly held meetings and that we cannot interfere with that i don't know where that's written i can't recall exactly where that is can you confirm for me please if you know a family mr rosario that is an attorney general opinion um and and i believe there was a court a circuit court case i believe it was the manatee school board where it was held that if

086an individual is video or audio recording a public meeting they may do so as long as they are not interfering with the conduct of the meeting so if there's someone assuming that we're in this particular room for a public meeting and there is someone in here um recording the board meeting that that of itself is not something that we can stop but if they are recording in such a way that they are interfering with the meeting an example comes to mind that that i personally witnessed where the the lights were so bright from the camera and there was so much noise and back and forth they were literally disrupting the meeting and so we had them removed but otherwise if they're just sitting quietly and recording like sometimes happens that's not something that we can

087stop with regard to recording people other people in the room as opposed to the school board meeting that's really going to be an issue of whether you have a right of privacy in a public space um i i would really need to understand the exact set of circumstances that occurred outside the meeting room unfortunately i'm not out there so i can't really see what's going on but we would need to really review the exact circumstances that occurred when someone was videoing a private citizen out in our lobby there may or may not be an ability um to restrict that activity but i am not going to be able to render an opinion as i sit here at this second thank you um i i think that a lot of the commotion in the lobby has

088also occurred because the seats are not back where they are normally for normal business meetings we still have them about three feet apart from each other we are no longer in a state of emergency if we return this room back to the way that it used to be with normal seating you reduce drastically how many people sit or stand in the lobby because we never had this issue before so i would proffer that we put the room back to the way that it was return the seats back to normal seating where they are not three feet apart and that will eliminate anyone in the lobby essentially all right any anymore so dr moore are you in a position to summarize all of this and you could always follow up with us individually if there was

089some clarification it sounds like we're pretty much in agreement here uh the question would be um when do we start the business meeting starts at 6 pm when do we start this pre do we start at 5 or 5 30. through the chair i believe my recommendation would be to go back create or modify current policy and bring it back to the board for review so what taking some of the notes that i have here i would say a 30-minute pre-public hearing which would be recorded but not broadcasted a then the start of the meeting at six and then what i'm hearing is a from doc jones another 30 minute opportunity to address items action items in the board and then we would divvy up the time allocated versus the number of speakers and then

090we proceed with the particular meetings now there would be some massaging of that as you look at policy to create what that would look like in order to bring it to a reality so we would have to go back look at policy what we would have to change and modify what i would like to do is bring one policy that captures everything no need for a resolution that's currently out there but we would have to bring this to the board as doc jones was saying send it to public hearing and then come back 30 days to bring it to life through a vote meaning that's when we we'd be able to implement so the action for tonight uh wouldn't be any different from the previous board meeting because there is a policy in place and

091there's a resolution that was created four or five years ago that kind of captures the current process that will follow so we would need to continue to do as we're doing i can do my best to pull together a policy for this evening but my based on the rate of change in in terms of the conversations and how much it adjusted i would have to make sure suzanne had enough time to to review it to make sure that it's accurate so that there would be some juggling that that would have to take place but i i definitely can try to do that but he can't ultimately commit to it doctor thank you for that the only thing i don't remember hearing or agreeing on was that the amount of time was 30 minutes on the

092action and consent on the action and consent my concern with that is that um there are often issues on action and consent that people really want to speak to even if it were 60 minutes and we had 30 people right that would be two minutes each i would i would want to up that to to i'm okay with that i know i said 30 minutes before but i would think that action consent would not be longer than an hour for us to get to our board meeting by and we're still there by 7 7 30 yeah i'd be okay with that well the the uh the last meeting we had 42 speakers every one of them spoke to one action item and that was that's what i'm saying yeah and that went on for two

093hours more give or take and i would think and i would defer to suzanne on this you would want the flexibility in a specific case like that um not maybe it's not mass maybe it's some other controversial issue where we have a number of people wanting to share their opinion that we can vote to extend the time we know it's an hour but that's on a a regular flow of a meeting we have an item here that requires additional time can i get a motion to extend public hearing so everyone could speak i mean you could make that adjustment at the orders of the day because you know i use whoever's the chair usually gets at the stack ahead of time you know exactly how many people are there to speaking to what so we

094could easily during orders of dates spend extend public speaking to an action item to an appropriate period of time i don't want to cut somebody off right from having the opportunity to speak and we just need somebody who's good at calculating the time which would not be me mrs rosario um the way that we have it now and i guess i just need a little bit of clarity clarity on this the way that we have it now is that citizens can speak during citizen input and then citizens could also speak to an action item okay so essentially someone can speak twice in a meeting no not to the same item that's not the same item i didn't say the same item i'm just saying essentially they could speak twice to different items it could be

095different items but they can still speak twice or three times because if they want to speak to two different action items and then speak on something else during citizen input what i'm what i'm listening to here um i don't hear clarity on being able to also speak to action items separately so are we still allowing for citizens to speak during citizen input of items that are on the agenda because it could be anything that's on the agenda and also to an action item the action is the agenda is on the agenda are you saying to consent and to action or to public input prior to the meeting and to either consent or action or to multiple items on an action or consent agenda the way i understand it we're talking about citizens being able to

096speak at any item that's on an agenda an agenda item was the disc is the discussion an agenda item that could be anything on an agenda so allowing them to also speak to a cons a an action item would be appropriate as well so someone could essentially speak twice they can speak to a consent agenda and then they can speak specifically to an action item that is specifically what can happen now let me read that's what i just said yeah but what i'm what i'm suggesting what i'm asking for clarity is are we on the same page to keep that format for this new change i would say yes good this this this bullet point persons may speak up to three minutes beginning of a business meeting during citizen input is indicating the order of

097business and for up to three minutes to each action item during the action agenda and each board member discussion item as indicated on the order of business peop persons may only speak once about any given item but they could speak multiple times multiple times against different items i'm i'm i can support that and i'm sorry another question two questions uh in your summary you said uh that the pre i always forget the name what are we going to call that by the way first what are we going to call that and then on the pre-agenda public comment period uh you said that that would be recorded did you mean audio recorded no i was just trying to to clarify i said recorded for minutes or whatever the case would be for but not broadcasting so

098how is that going to look i wouldn't and recorded video recorded as just like the regular meeting would be but just not broadcasted on youtube or our our public channel and then at six o'clock that's what the meeting would say so and then that the public comments in there are recorded yes video recording video recorded video recorded but the camera is not necessarily on the person speaking we can hear the person speaking but the camera is on the board is that what i thought that's what no you said because as as mrs baronborg mentioned and and we discussed we don't know who's saying what and we are not always sure that that's appropriate for public broadcasts such as when mrs baron board mentioned the person who's stripped at the board meeting correct or other public

099conflict that we've had well i disagree with that i think we should keep it we've never had yes we have we have yeah we have since i have been on this board but we have since i have been on this board we have never had the cameras not on an individual we have the opportunity to turn the cameras off but i don't think that it's appropriate for us to turn the cameras off on individuals just because there have been i'm sorry clearly we have some disagreement about this so either we need consensus or a vote or we need to move it forward because we can discuss it for another 45 minutes why don't we just get yeah we could but you just interrupted what i was saying actually i was speaking i know you shouldn't

100do that if one person is speaking of course not because this goes on and on and on and on so i just think that it is just uh disrespectful to our citizens to remove the camera um from citizens who are speaking during citizen input at a dually convened business meeting it's wrong it's just wrong uh dr jones just in general um over all the years with all the different media and so forth you know i i think it's very very important and i spoke to the board a couple times in my years but that we're speaking to the board and that is why when we have action and consent items it's very very important that they're speaking to the board and that is why i don't think the camera needs to be there because we

101are the ones that need to be listening we are the ones that need to you know think about that with our consent and action i'm so i think it's very important that way uh mrs baron board thank you um one point to consider is um think about the people that don't want to come speak because the camera's on and also um we've had some people that come and they're extremely nervous because the camera's on but they do want to speak to the board so i get what you're saying mr rosario about putting the camera on people because they feel like that's their entitlement and they're right um but again getting back to your point that you've made um over and over again they're coming to speak to the board and um i'm fine with the

102camera being behind them and they speak to the board however that works so that we know who's on the camera that's fine i just don't think it needs to be them spotlighted i also think there are several people that are uncomfortable with that and do want to speak but they're uncomfortable with being on camera all right so so dr moore uh why don't you draft a revised and then we can deal with it at the next meeting and then we can present it for an amendment to the current citizen input through the chair i'll have staff um begin working on it uh immediately uh god willing susan has a time to to review capturing what we discussed today and if we have the opportunity to have that item this evening i think that's what we

103should do you're not approving an item you're just sending it to public hearing um and then you have the opportunity at our next convening or the convening that's over 30 days away to get input from the community then you could choose to make it policy or not that would be my desire can can the last meeting if i'm correct and and maybe i'm not the camera was not on the speakers you are correct right so the last meeting did not have the speakers the the cameras were only on the school board last meeting we just heard the speakers in the background but dr moore told me that that was inadvertent when the podium was changed he told me that he didn't even realize that the cameras were not on is that correct yeah that that

104is correct and it was an advert and it wasn't on purpose but i will be honest in in hindsight the decision not to to modify it was the absolute right decision based on some of the behavior that was displayed in some of the imagery that was provided absolutely not reflective of who we are as a a community in a typical board meeting we we have the wide shot screen which is of the board uh because there were so many speakers and to facilitate or accelerate the time we moved the the podium back uh which was a good practice so my intention was to to remain that particular practice make these modifications that that is the what i'm i think that i'm hearing from the board and then we modify this policy or don't modify this

105policy all right so um moving on dr jones are you and i guess uh it's dr jacobs dr jacobs here i just wanted to thank dr jacobs and first of all dr moore for allowing us to have time during this workshop i know we've been flexible on discussion workshop and i appreciate that when i brought these to the board probably in march or april this year i was just thinking as a new school board member obviously we have all of our policy and training with all of the curriculum heads and our department heads and sometimes just having some protocols is something that you can work with obviously this could be it's very detailed but i think what we're looking for is consensus to move forward dr jacobs has done a lot of work with our

106input and yeah i don't think we can go word by word on this but to say you know this will work for us this will work for new board members as they come in and i think it's just something that hopefully we can move forward with everybody's input and not only be masterboard trained but have board protocols which would be so neat thank you thank you dr jacobs all right well we'll get protocoling good afternoon and i first want to thank everybody each of the board members for providing their feedback and input and i was able to put this together with the collective input of the board and i didn't want anybody to not be represented in that input so i very much appreciate you doing that the first thing i would like to do

107is just share with you i've kind of got an agenda laid out for us to go through these protocols i will be orienting you to the materials we'll talk about a little bit of some working norms and then our protocol that we're going to be using for protocols and so some of these things are things that i have done when i facilitated previous sessions which were collecting feedback trying to come to consensus and they work very effectively and so that's what we'll be doing today i first want to orient you to your material packet that was posted on the board workshop for this particular item and what you'll see there is we first have the working norms that you'll find that on page three then you'll find the protocol for protocols and we'll go through

108that very specifically on page four of that packet then i have provided on page five the original document that you all provided feedback for so that document from 9 14 21 that is starts on page 5 and then on page 10 is the combined board member feedback so essentially what i did is each of you submitted your feedback i went through each of those different pieces and i have combined that feedback and i'll explain how that is was was collectively captured and then finally just to ensure that i have hopefully represented very accurately your feedback on page 30 i provided a copy of each board member's individual feedback just in case we need to refer back to it so questions yes good question um for the board chair and dr moore before he's before you

109step into that room okay um she could see it we now spent an hour and a half just on citizen input i'm concerned about our timing and dr moore has other items on the agenda um dr moore can you speak to a minute um because i have a concern i can imagine that this conversation will take much of the rest of our time together today and i want to make sure that doctor i'm fine as i said the last board meeting i i'd have one or two items that could be quickly be exposed of made a commitment to honor this work i think the board has been lingering through this long enough so if we can just give our attention to to this at this time um i'll make do even if i have to

110present the items this evening they don't get the time today um i'm i'm fine okay good and i would just request of board members um we all have our written comments if we could be succinct and clear and move as quickly and efficiently as possible through this as dr moore mentions we've we've been lingering over this a lot so if we could keep our comments precise i think that would that would help the conversation very good so we will start with working norms i always start with norms so these are norms actually that i've used over and over again when we did the strategic plan feedback sessions these were the norms that were used the first norm is equity and voice which essentially means that all the collective the cl as a collective board each

111member is able to fully participate in the conversation and have their voice heard respectfulness and spirit so just we may have diverse um opinions about the different bullets and obviously when you go through the feedback there is a diversity of opinion but have respect for each other and that and balance in perspective so somebody may have a different opinion for you but be an active listener and be open to listening to what others may bring to the table because together we can make things better if we collectively discuss now are there any other working norms that maybe are missed on there that any board members would like to add brevity brevity okay what do other board members think of brevity so being succinct thumbs up just honoring the time limits which will okay go along

112with brevity so maybe we can say honoring the time limits any other ones all right and with that says everybody okay with those norms yes all right so first i want to go over the protocol for protocols and so talking about honoring time limits to ensure that we i am um gathering feedback from each and every one of you we are going to go through the protocols bullet by bullet essentially so what you will see is that for each bullet i have provided feedback any feedback that was provided under that particular bullet i'll read out that bullet so we know exactly what information we're discussing and then any recommendations any changes in language any additions in language related to that bullet after that we're going to be going round robin's style and so what i

113will do is i will start with chairman barefoot the first cycle around and i will be asking each board member for their feedback or their reflection in two minutes or less we will go to each respective board member and then after we hear everyone's feedback i will summarize and then we will start building consensus on that particular bullet so as we go through cycles chairman barefoot will be the first one on the next bullet dr schiff will be and then we'll go on down the line so everybody has the opportunity to put their information and input in first any questions about that particular protocol okay so i will now direct you to the combined board member feedback on page 10. so we have done orientation of materials working norms in our protocol the first thing

114we're going to go over is the inner introduction or the collective board aim and the first question i have for you all in looking at the feedback is as i first read this particular piece of language it looked like it was the collective board aim and then as i come through some of the feedback that you provided it started seeming like it was morphing into a mission statement of the board so my first question for each board member is as you all originally developed this do you see this as the collective board aim for protocols or do you see it as a mission statement of the school board and chairman barefoot we'll start with you well i didn't offer a specific comment on this as others did i thought my big thing is a high

115degree of trust among the board i guess i i will i will abstain i'm perfectly happy with that but i also would note that there are a couple of good points made by others and i'd like to see if how that might be incorporated in but i think this ought to be you know as concise as possible okay very good and then and we will go through i will go through and read all the feedback but again is it was it more of a collective board aim for the protocols or was it more of a school board mission statement i like the idea of it as a mission statement i think that's a good suggestion we didn't include i think the language would then just have to be slightly tweaked in order to be a

116mission statement not uh how it was originally written okay i'm looking at collective board aim just because we're looking at protocols i think we just have to keep centered on what we want to do okay mr rosario um i i don't think it's a i don't think it's an aim i don't think that it is a mission statement because we have quite a few statements here but i'd certainly think that there is vision okay so i don't know if we want to combine vision and mission together um but i can certainly support that okay that's baron borg did you see this sorry um can i ask a question at the top the statement that you finally came up with um from looking at all our feedback as we to maintain a high degree that's that's

117the finalized one that you're looking at that was the original language and right and then under that language so in the boxes you'll see the revisions that were proposed by each of the board members who provided feedback on it what i what my question is to help guide where we go with the language is is this more of a collective board aim related to protocols or is this the school board's mission statement right um i i think kind of it's both um i think that's that's where we need to focus on is how we run our meetings and how we behave and how we um what what our first and foremost i i kind of like those words but primarily is more concise i i think what is our primary focus it should be on

118the kids and i think that's that's what we need to look at okay so what i'm hearing and if please correct me if i'm wrong um it sounds like this was intended as a board aim but within it is this is the mission of how we collectively want to conduct ourselves as a school board would that be correct okay which would which would be a mission statement yeah i think so it sounds like and that's as people started adding language it looked like it morphed into more of a mission statement rather than this is just our aim of our protocols so let's go over the particular feedback so the original language was as we aim to maintain a high degree of trust among the board instructional and support staff in the community these protocols will

119support our effort to keep our students first and foremost in our in our decisions and so miss berenborg actually she added um on the top and that actually should have been green school boards set the tone and culture for school districts they are elected to govern the school board is committed to maintaining a high degree of trust respect civility and engagement and then at the bottom she added that to keep students primarily in our decisions okay then we have dr schiff's feedback and i see that you kind of clarified that language as a school board that of the school district of new river county aims to foster and maintain a high degree of trust you added in district administration and also designing the district to ensure students are kept first and then miss rosario's is

120at the bottom and it indicates children come first board will represent the needs and interests of all children we desire to have a legacy of well-functioning and effective board we agree to avoid words and actions that create a negative impression on the individual board etc we will be open-minded and willing to deeply listen to all speakers and presented presenters we agree that we can disagree and we'll do some common courtesy and respect for others and then the second bullet this is an addition of indian river county school board after considering recommendation shall exercise powers according to florida statute 1001.41 so that added some statutory kind of reference in there so as you go through this particular feedback and i'll start with you dr schiff you know if we're looking at more of this to me

121at the top looks like a aim of protocols specifically as we and it's all it's interesting as we go down um the chart it looks more like a mission statement okay so as you reflect on it where do you see maybe that we can make the most impact even if as we start the the first couple of sentences where would you see us starting i like mrs barenborg's addition school board set the tone and culture for the districts they are elected to govern okay uh and then i would um for i would go to what i added i would take out as i would start the sentence the school board aims to foster and maintain and i'm not sure if missus i'd have to uh read mrs rosario's i've read them a few times i'm

122not sure how they fit into a mission statement here i can't at this moment i can't see that okay all right dr jones well when i look at this this is basically our header if you will and then we go into the board member roles authority superintendent roland authority so i don't think it needs to be really detailed but i do like a few of the things that were mentioned setting the tone children first and way to treat each others with respect but again this is our top top mission and then we get into specifics so i don't want that too detailed but i like some of the points that were made okay thank you ms rosario um there i had a question about um the word redundant after mrs berenborg's first bullet there who

123put that in and what did what what was that referring to miss berenberg i know she had redundant in there and i think there was some reference to support um do you see that on the top of your particular feedback you want me to speak yes please okay um you see where it says in support of support that's what i was talking about with redundancy okay thank you yeah because i was looking at somebody else's that put that part in and that's why i was just saying that that looks like saying in support of support you know should be there or okay thank you um i think that um i can support mrs berenberg's first sentence i think that children come first as should be a priority for this board and the second sentence that

124i have there the board will represent the needs and interests of all children in our district i think that will absolutely align with our school district's vision i can see how the other things that i put down some of the other things that i put down in that first paragraph could be work related specific to work related and not mission and what is on the bottom i have to think about that a little bit more all right and then miss berenborg sure thank you um yeah you're right it looks like a mission statement as we went further with this and i think mission statements should be clear and concise um so um i'm happy with the support everything everybody's already said as far as taking that first one and tweaking it a little bit um

125the first and foremost uh the reason why i put primarily in there is just for that reason is making it very clear and concise um they kind of both mean the same thing but i think we all agree that we're here for kids first thank you so i have a proposal for this particular one so listen carefully all right so as i look so the first sentence is from miss berenborg school boards set the tone and culture for the school districts they are elected to govern okay as the school board of the school district of indian river county or indian river aims to foster maintain a degree of trust dot dot dot all the way through these protocols are designed to ensure students are kept first and foremost we can talk about whether it's or

126primary in all decisions um and then the board will represent or is committed to representing the needs and interests of all children in the district if we're saying [Music] i'm concerned it's redundant okay so where i see redundancy is we say protocols are established to keep students primarily in our decisions are kept first in all decision making and then we say children come first and and then we say the board will i may be getting you wrong but represent the needs and interests of all children in our district um we're saying the same thing three times can we make that more concise yes so children come first if i communicate i didn't have that so i almost wonder could we merge these protocols are designed to ensure students are kept first and foremost in all

127decision making i think that's the same thing as represent the needs and interests of all children in our district other thoughts so we'll start with dr jones this is kind of like our overall statement before we get specific so just try to keep it focused and succinct on this first one with children first somehow coming out okay as the biggie okay i would agree with that one children first so what is the thought of if we merged top the senate school board set the tone and culture of school districts with the dr schiff's language here how would people feel about that since these two are essentially the same expressing the same idea and that's added to the first part so this school boards would be the first sentence and then this would be the second

128piece of language and that would be your language there because these are essentially these two ideas are supporting each other there right thumbs up barefoot i get clarification sorry there was a i'm sorry i know it's hard on there so the first sentence would be school board set the tone and culture for school districts they are elected to govern okay then we would head down to dr schiff's language as a school board of the school district of indian river county which essentially incorporates some of what you all originally had we would use all that language and we would not repeat what miss rosario has because essentially what she has said they are both saying the same thing there yeah i would take out an ad just as just start the school district yes as is

129out of there miss rosario um where it says are designed to ensure students are kept first i would prefer that it says are designed to ensure the needs and interests of students are kept first others thoughts needs and interests of students are kept first fine fine okay all right we got through one did we get through the first one yes we did celebrate small wins everybody miss rosario yeah is it appropriate to say support staffs with an s or support staff i had the same question i think that supports staffs that already is a plural support system staff is no plural staff is a plural word right so we can take the s off correct yeah yes okay very good all right can i check this off of here so we can go down to

130the next one all right thank you all right so the next section is board member roles and authority so this is actually where we're getting right to the actual protocols so the original language is at the top the indian river county school board is responsible for governing public schools in indian river county the board acts collectively to enforce local and state rules determine local policy and procedure consistent with such rules and operate in the best interest of indian river county schools okay so for the feedback dr schiff has asked and it's an excellent question responsible for governing public schools and so she asks non-charter or charter so is there a distinction there so that's the first question is and that might be a suzanne missed agresto question about the governing of schools does that include

131charter or non-charter is that a tricky question well it is tricky but the statutes are clear that these in the florida constitution the school board is the entity that operates in cro controls all public education within the county limits and that includes charter schools there have been some interpretations that the state board perhaps can trump something that the school board does but this school district has consistently say we oversee all public education so i know we're going in order but i have a question how do yes is it my turn to talk yes please please speak um my i get that and and where i can continue um to struggle or be confused about this is that we're by statute we have oversight or whatever the word would be of of charter schools but we

132are not the governing body that determines policy in charter schools they have their own board and they can set policy that's inconsistent with district policy if something happens in a charter if there's we are responsible in a in a in a broad sense for what happens there but we don't actually govern the operations of those schools in the way we do the district schools so i'm a little confused because if we're governing those schools then don't would they not have to act consistent with district policy which they don't they have their own policy so i'm i struggle with this and the charter legislation allows a charter school governing board to adopt its own policies or to follow the policies of the school board the charter schools within river county to my memory at this moment

133have their own set of policies they they do they they've not elected to follow any of the policies of the school board right but you still govern public education in indiana county but then there's a difference between we govern those schools but we don't we enforce local and state rules etc but we we don't determine what they do i don't know i i know that this is this is complicated in but as we're writing protocol i'm concerned from from a legal and other liability i don't know how this will affect that down the road but the degree to which we are responsible for their governance when they do things that may be consistent with or maybe in direct opposition to what we've decided to be policy for the governance of our schools so i'm wondering

134as i'm hearing you um discuss this and we can we'll go through all of the different pieces wondering if we can think of a different word for that overseeing that's almost what i wonder we don't have to keep it all together because some of the other areas will will kind of repeat if we use the same redundancy we don't necessarily have to have governing public schools in there at all okay so what i'm going to do is i will make a note of that that governing is a word that we may need to to address and then operate in the best interests so dr schiff you had of instead of indian river county school students there the next piece of feedback is from miss rosario so this is added language and determining policies and programs

135consistent with state law and rule deemed necessary for the efficient operation and general improvement of the district's school system adopt rules pursuant to the statutes 120 and i won't go through the actual numbers to implement the laws the provision of law conferring duties upon it to supplement those prescribed by the state board of education and the commissioner of education perform duties and exercises responsibilities assigned by law or rules of the state board of education commissioner of education in addition to those necessary for the improvement of the district school system and carrying out the purposes and objectives prescribe and adopt standards and policies to provide each student the opportunity to receive a complete education program and the board sets the goals vision mission of the district as well as establishes the district's strategic plan so in

136reflecting on both this is the original language for the first bullet for board members roles authority and we will start with you ms rosario well i mean if if the consensus is to keep those bottom bullets then we don't necessarily need the top one the original language and we don't have to worry about whether we're governing or writing in our protocols that we are governing charter schools or not we don't really have to worry about that because all that is encompassing within those bottom bullets okay all right so what i'm hearing you saying is that the top language would be replaced with these this bottom language all right miss berenborg right i was just hold on a sec sorry i was just um i want to catch the last statement um i was just looking

137up you know our oath um of office that i asked uh mrs agrester for a couple weeks ago because in the oath i think that's where um jackie is mentioning sorry mr rosario you're mentioning at um adopt rules pursuant to and you mentioned the two statutes and you mentioned state board of education commissioner of education you're right that's what our oath directs us to do um whether or not we need to put the specific thing in there i'm not sure how to word that um but that's exactly what our role and authority is um to do those things so if you'll go back to your oath of office which i can have um ask mr aggresso to send to everybody you'll see that that's what we agreed to do all right thank you thoughts on

138the top um miss berenborg the top language being replaced by the bottom language the top language sorry the top language being replaced by the bottom language yeah so the original language what miss rosario was proposing was that the green bullets that have been added her feedback she's proposing that that could replace the top language the alternate is that we would keep the top language and maybe add pieces of the of the added language right i think these be succinct again um and i agree with keeping the top language and maybe adding that piece that i was referring to with hers maybe rewording it though not to put you know numbers in there okay thank you mr barefoot well i think when it says the board acts collectively to enforce local and state rules you don't

139mean it's pretty clear whatever those rules are if there's a new rule and you don't want to necessarily list them all because they can change but you know a lot of this the bullets in green at least in our book is green refers back to local state rules so i don't think you need all those words i think you focus on and if there's a better choice of a few words but i don't think you need all of that okay all right thank you so essentially you're saying that this captures the overarching idea of what you all intended for this while this tends to expound to a higher level of detail than maybe is needed in board protocols right okay dr schiff uh i agree with mr barefoot i i agree uh that when we

140say to enforce local and state rules that that covers this and have the same concern that that state laws and rules change so if we're putting something so i'm reluctant to to uh specify or limit to specific laws or rules mentioned here that may or may not be the same in a year or two or five years the board sets the goals mission vision mission of the district as well as establishes the strategic plan um i can live with that because i think that's different than the the rules and laws that are captured in the other sentence doctor when i presented this template to the board a while back i like the fact that we have some kind of header if you will to kind of you know encompass everything we're going to be talking

141about but i don't think in protocols we can get too specific but i do like two of the bullet points that perform duties and exercise those responsibilities and then board sets a goal vision mission the district um so i just like to keep the format um similar you know kind of like with your header and then what we're talking about within the header again we're not rewriting policy i mean we have a big policy book for that and obviously state statute but i would keep that header with a couple of those bullet points thank you okay thank you so i with regard to the last bullet on there the board sets the goals vision mission of the district that actually appears below um on the next it's actually the next bullet and so we can

142talk about a language change in that if because that would be a language change for that but what i'm hearing and so we have what we would do is keep their original language i see there's some concern about governing that particular word can we change that to overseeing what are thoughts on overseeing instead of governing mr rosario uh i don't know about overseeing okay um responsible for i'm not sure about that one okay mr gruster did you have something to add yeah exactly okay well that's a good idea exactly so i hear mr barefoot that that was what i was going to suggest and at the end indian river county schools and its students so just for for clara tell me the distinction you're making between schools and students because what we keep talking about

143is in the best interests of kids in the best interests of students so if we did no i think you have an intent there i'm just curious i wanted to be explicit uh implicit implied in indian river schools is students you could also apply to staff and teachers and what have you i just want to be more explicit that's all but i'm fine the other way i you know i i'd like to keep things general just because it gives you flexibility but i mean i'm not going to well i want to include it that's fine but that was my thinking that's all and the thought is is with the so dr schiff had provided you know let's explicitly say students and then i also see what you're saying mr barefoot because it's students but it's

144also that system of schools that includes staff members all of the different pieces that are encapsulated and what education is about so um miss rosario um i was looking at that bottom bullet the black one uh where you have the arrow pointing down my thought is if you go two bullets above where it begins pro prescribe i think that's important for us to keep in there that bullet because it says prescribe and adopt standards and policies which is what we are responsible for doing primarily responsible for doing however in re-reading it i i thought to say prescribe and adopt the district budget and policies to provide each student the opportunity to receive and complete a complete education program if those two bullets stay in then we don't need that bottom bullet because obviously we approve

145the budget and policy and the mission and the vision okay and the strategic plan so on that part so and i will go around and get everybody's feedback about this third bullet the bottom bullet about the strategic plan as i read the proposed language the proposed language for that and then the existing bullet it says something different to me so if we could work on that one separately because it says um two different things essentially what is what what do you see different so it says the the proposed language says the board sets the goals vision emission of the district as well as establishes the district's strategic plan so the bottom one reads the board approves the district budget as well as the strategic plan which embodies our vision mission and goals for student success

146so i guess the question would be um sets and approves in the above bullet so it sets an appropriate goals vision mission sets and approves so why don't we go up to the top get that language clarified and we can go down to this this one because i do think there's going to be more discussion about that so if we took together so this prescribe and adopt district budget and policy so that also is down here as well um and i don't know if there was intent of why those bullets were separated out from the top before but let me propose language for this one and then we can move to that those particular bullets if we had this top original language we took out governing we just strike that and then we add anna's

147students i heard what i heard was on the third bullet of miss rosario's essentially that's referring to an oath of office that has been taken to somehow change that particular language and add that to what we have and then adding perform duties and exercises responsibilities i almost wonder if those should be sub those two should be sub bullets under the original language thoughts on that and i will start miss berenborg let's start with you thoughts on that that revision proposed revision right um yeah i'm fine with i think concise is better okay so i i understand that she wants to put all that in there i think trying to take that and be very concise with it so that we get a really clear because sometimes when you get too much in there then it

148doesn't even get looked at okay mr barefoot well i'm always i always think less is more okay and you get up too many words and i mean i think should be very as specific as possible yep and um you know even the next bullet down the one that we're trying to merge i think it's really important to have that be stand alone because that's one of the key responsibilities is the strategic plan along with the superintendent evaluation picking and choosing a superintendent evaluating them in the strategic plan and the budget those are those are what those are the the four key things right and after you have this umbrella up top those are the spec that's the kind of specificity you want as subgroups now whether they're standalone or you know sub bullets above the

149uh the top i'm i'm fine with i but i think you want to be concise and very specific okay so what i'm hearing is am i hearing that so you want this particular bullet to stay the same with the changes with the edits with the edits yes okay dr schiff i agree uh concise is significant um the more i read this the more i see so policies to provide each student the opportunity to receive a complete education that one the one that starts prescribe and adopt i'm not clear how that's different than we act collectively yada yada yada in the best interests of indian river county schools and its students i think it's inherent in that phrase okay i agree about both the strategic plan and the budget i think it says that in the

150next one i don't disagree we could break it up into approves the district budget and um whatever is the language we could take that sets the goals mission etc mrs rosario's language of the strategic plan and have those in two separate bullets and i think the rest is covered by the the top bullet all right okay you are really good at this doctor jim e i know she less is more and again our purpose here is just to get some protocols for our board whether the next board will use them but at least they have a template of what maybe we were thinking about and they can add things but yeah let's just keep it as succinct as possible all right miss rosario so thoughts on this language with our edits these bullets coming down

151separated out as distinct bullets i'm good with that okay did we really cover the next bullet too all right so is everybody ms berenborg yes yes sorry um can you read back the part about the uh strategic plan again yes so there are two um different language proposals on that mr rosario's added proposal our our revised language is the board sets the goals vision mission of the district as well as establishes a district strategic plan the original bullet that referred to the strategic plan said the board approves the district's budget as well as a strategic plan which embodies the vision mission and goals for student success yeah um i like that only because um i don't think we this we don't really establish it we vote on it and approve or disapprove and edit with

152the superintendent so i think the supers tenant is the one that actually establishes it so i want to i want to be careful with our wording there all right thank you for that feedback that is essentially what i was alluding to a little earlier of that particular language but what we can do we'll finalize this top bullet and let's move down to the strategic plan bullet and talk about that a little bit more so the um [Music] what miss berenborg has indicated a difference in that the board sets the goals versus the board approves the district approves the goals and vision admission and all those types of things so ms rosario um we do set the goals and the vision and the mission and it's dr moore's responsibility to see it through so that is

153our responsibility to do we set the vision and he puts it in motion okay miss miss berenborg and then we'll go back around yeah um i don't disagree that we set the um set the goals vision mission the part that i was questioning is the establishes the district's strategic plan i think if you put the establish this district strategic plan in there of the board sets the goals vision mission of the district as well as this district's strategic plan then i think we're good um i just that word establishes i i you know that's your gray area i think okay all right thank you for the clarification i just wanted to add also that bottom bullet that you that we're referring to here does not include policies that you would like the arrow down below

154in black okay it doesn't include policies there okay the top two do i see i see what you're the next one does wait yeah but we were just trying to reviews and evaluates well it's is vague there it's policies procedures and protocols presumably that refers to the board mrs rosario are you saying the policy should refer to the district no i no i'm only referring to that first bullet that we've been talking we didn't even go on to the next bullet i'm talking about the first black bullet down below there right here that's what i yes that's what we've been discussing so the proposal was to take these two bullets prescribe and adopt district budget and policies to provide students the opportunity to complete to a each student's opportunity to a complete education program and

155then the second bullet would replace this particular bullet the the original language related to the budget and the strategic plan thoughts about that mr barefoot i don't know you know people have different ways of saying the same thing you know i'm not sure the board sets the goals vision mission you know the the fact of the matter is that certainly when it comes to goals and strategic plans in collaboration with the superintendent i mean we're not sitting up here coming up individually with a bunch of goals we'd be here for three weeks on the other hand we have the ability to respond to and discuss with the superintendent ultimately improve so i don't know whether the right word sets or establishes and you know vision and mission are two very different things mission is what

156you do every day vision is what you aspire to goals allow you to and a strategic plan allows you to realize a vision over time and you're constantly changing the out years in all of this i mean i don't know how i don't know i i know how it would it should work in a corporate setting when i because i've been i've lived it why don't you i'd like to hear more of what my colleagues think because i'm having i'm not unhappy with this i just wonder if there's just better words to use that's all okay dr schiff i still think it's redundant as i said earlier i'm realizing in this process um that this will get us to a next stage but it will probably need another level of review please be available uh

157because i don't think we're going to get through it today and i think there are some things that in the that we're just going to have to leave for a minute and come back to because we've done two bullets in 40 minutes or whatever it's been so um but i think mostly in that particular bullet i think it's said elsewhere um i think what's important i can agree with goal's vision mission of the district strategic plan and budget i think that's what we do okay that's exactly right but i don't think we need you know all the a lot of fancy language around it and policy i think well the policies we might get to it here i wonder if this lack of clarity of the it's is what's catching us with the policy piece

158of it so we can talk about that yes yeah it gets me every time you don't need it it's like eliminating governing right right so the board creates reviews and evaluates policies procedures and protocols pretty simple yeah okay all right so what i'm hearing is that we are now we're heading back to this language here that the board approves the district's budget as well strategic plan in which division mission goals of student success and then if we cross out this it's it will actually capture this language up here with the district budget and policies etc and then the only thing i'm not clear and forgive me if i missed it mr barefoot mentioned separating out budget and strategic plan i see okay which is currently yeah in the same bullet see i think i i

159think goals vision mission there's a there's a qualitative comp well goals are pretty specific but there's a more of a qualitative component to that when you're talking about strategic plan and budget you're being very specific and i think it it's worthy of having it stand alone whether you could even combine the two i can you could you could add strategic plan and budget to to you know policies procedures and protocols i mean these are very specific things that this board's responsible for okay and you don't need to go on with a lot of other words just get to the point because that's what we do so what if so i'm listening to what you're saying what if the board uh reviews evaluates and rev um approves the district budget policies procedures protocols and the district

160strategic plan i think that captures it i mean that's what we do okay so the board creates or the not creates the board reviews evaluates and approves the district's budget policies procedures protocol and district strategic plan well what i i would it sounds good except we do create policy so if we remove create then you remove creating policy we don't create the budget but we do so i if you separate those it would sound it would be more appropriate okay okay i hear your point so because this is a policy policy and we do create protocol but what about procedures some is that more staff that's more staff procedures okay like the procedures for you know the the covid we did we did approve those we did we didn't create them but we did approve

161them okay so here's the thought so the board approves the district's budget as well as a strategic plan the board creates reviews and evaluates policies and protocols regularly yep all right is everybody in agreement with that yes miss berenborg i don't want to leave you out up there okay all right so the next bullet is board members have the authority to act only as a body in a duly convened meeting mr rosario you have that you would like that stricken okay so miss berenborg we're going to start with you i kind of lost track of who was next but miss beerborg we're going to start with you um i'm curious why she wants it stricken okay i have no idea let me take a look at it i think it was repeated someplace else that's

162all let me give me a quick second okay mr barefoot are you okay with this bullet as is yes you can leave it or delete it okay it's it's either explicit or implicit okay where are we dr schiff board members have the authority i think it has to be there okay dr jones be there miss barenborg i see her saying be there are you okay with it being there oh i know why because i just changed the language that's all if you go to the next page it's in green it says the board has the authority to act as only as a corporate body in a dually convened meeting oh i see that it was just a change in in words so rather than say have the authority to act only as a body in

163duly convened meetings i said has the authority to act only as a corporate body in a dually convened meeting so corporate only as a corporate body we can't make individual decisions it's the court the board corporate that makes the decisions that makes a big difference in what way we've received that from um fsba as well i don't object to it but how does it make a big difference um because if the first one says board board members have the authority to act only as a body that could mean i for example i could be with mrs with dr jones in a particular meeting for example and it could be misinterpreted that we could speak on behalf of the board or [Music] share something on behalf of the board that wasn't already agreed i mean it

164would be a violation of sunshine but that's not what it's just the clarity of board corporate makes it um more clear that we work as a entity of all of us together any objections to adding i actually just got that from the fsba i look i like it yeah um how about our board attorney chiming in on that one thank you that's a good suggestion the the word corporate is used um to describe a school board um in a very old statute that dates back to the 70s so it's just an old uh terminology that's been used with school boards um i don't know that it adds or subtracts anything um it's just a statutory phrase that's been used with school boards in the past mrs barrett i'm sorry i did not catch what you

165said sorry i'm i'm fine with leaving it in okay corporate if fsba recommends it okay all right we are on to our next page so board members are responsible for hiring firing and performance evaluation of the superintendent and school board attorney on an annual basis mr barefoot um had a comment that he just provided in consultation with the superintendent the superintendent must approve of all finalists and can rank privately with individual board members to avoid embarrassing any candidates in public miss barenborg indicated it was discussed to shelf the school board attorney um can do is we terminate a contract so we can terminate him we can terminate his contract which is a little different than firing which is a much better word agreeing to not review and not renew which is in effect the same

166thing but but it's not the process of how it happens i'm fine i just think heart firing just is so what so what if we said terminating with that i i think higher terminate uh you know that's better than firing for sure at least in my opinion how about board members are responsible for the uh executing and terminating of employee or execution no executing doesn't sound good now that i said it out loud not good it's worse than firing i think a little more gruesome sometimes all right so uh dr jones what other feedback i don't i don't like firing um we're responsible for hiring evaluating and not firing determine terminating is a good term doctor shifts it good dr schiff been there done that all right miss rosario how about board members are responsible

167for the hiring the performance evaluation and the non-renewal hiring the performance evaluation and the non-renewal hiring evaluating and terminating hiring performance evaluation and termination we just want to keep it contact hiring evaluating and determining keeping them the same okay so i'm hearing some different things but i i hear part of what's yes miss berenborg yeah i think instead of making it personal make it about the contract okay so um say where you're saying hiring evaluating and termination of the contract if needed oh that's better so hiring firing and no no firing firing firing or taking out firing evaluating evaluating and terminating so we make it all parallel and terminating terminating the contract contract okay so let me read it again to make sure we're all on the same page board members are responsible for the

168hiring evaluating and terminating of the contract of the superintendent and school board attorney on an annual basis everybody in agreement yep all right next bullet board members do not have individuals yes i'm sorry um the annual basis oh yes so i'm not so sure well currently i mean when we're facing a different situation but currently mrs um diagresta's contract was on a monthly basis um what if there is an opportunity just thinking ahead what if there's an opportunity that the board asks the superintendent to provide feedback on something and we would evaluate on wait what does your contract say does your contract say annual or does it just say evaluation do we know before i annual right okay disregard right thank you so board members do not have individual authority and cannot take unilateral action

169on any item decision or vote and then miss rosario has suggested the board has authority to act only as a corporate body in a duly convened meeting no okay just scratch that out all right so scratch this out and so we're okay with that one well you can scratch that one out too because that would mean the same thing as no what we said before i think it's a little bit different it's different because it talks about what we say in other spaces yes so it's about representing um the board in other in other areas but this was intended for board meetings correct [Music] no no it's under rules and this is already what you can do in a public setting outside of board meetings so you can go to a meeting and you can't

170say something about what the board intends or will do or has done unless it's previously been discussed in a public meeting no but where does it say outside of a board meeting in a public setting any action of the board in a public setting except has been previously discussed etcetera no you're looking at the a different bullet i think the doctor dr jacobs you're on the bullet above correct i'm on yeah this one right here that's a different bullet what i'm what i'm saying is the bullet that you were mentioned that you were just that you just referenced yes would be the same as what was previously a convened so what we had before was board members have authority to act only as a corporate body in a dually convened meeting okay i could see

171how that might be redundant yeah it's fine are we okay thoughts of deleting that particular the second bullet cannot take unilateral action on any action item decision or vote what if we just add that to the earlier bullet okay that has come up and cannot so add and cannot take unilateral action on any item etc to that individual members have represented the board as having had a particular view or opinion on something which was not in fact ever discussed all right just so i don't forget all the words straight all right so then we can strike that and then the next bullet is board members cannot represent any action of the board in a public setting except has been previously discussed publicly at a dually notice and conducted meeting the feedback from dr schiff board

172members cannot represent any action and then the added language is will or intent of the board so that's her suggested added language miss rosario has board members cannot represent and then she struck out any action the board corporate in a public public setting except with board consensus at a duly noticed business meeting discussion session or workshop all right so i think the next one is dr schiff to go first i may be way off but you know we'll just go with it right now uh i think will or intent isn't is important okay uh it has happened before that we have been presumed that we are it's been discussed we are either going to take an action or we have an intent to take an action or we have some will to do something that

173has not been publicly discussed i think that needs to be clear board or board corporate i don't care um the board consensus at a dually he cannot represent the board corporate in a public setting except with board consensus at a duly noticed um we we don't ever go in a public space and represent the the board we whenever we do that we act as individuals who sit on the board unless it's in board things like the committees that we're all assigned to that we discuss in our organizational meeting in november so i'm not clear we we don't do that unless there's there's somewhere that we do anytime any of us is ever out in a public space we are cautioned and at least i always clarify i'm not representing the board i'm speaking as an

174individual and i will only reference the board or something that the board has has done in a public meeting by reference so but i don't act on behalf of the board i never do when i always clarify that i presume my fellow board members do the same so mr gresta can we get just some feedback on this particular item how i interpret this language is while you may not do it it could happen and so what is the expectation so you want to document your expect what's your expectation on this concept that you won't do it the fact that you don't do it is great but that doesn't mean that it won't happen and and you're looking for the what's the expectation even though we don't think it'll happen ever in the history of the

175world but what is our expectation may i ask you one more question about that so i see there's a difference and i'm wondering so it cannot represent unless it's at a duly convened meeting versus a workshop or discussion is there a distinction there is can a board member represent the board corporate from a discussion session or a workshop that's not voted where item is not voted on and i i would think it would be um dangerous is the right word but you it would it should be done cautiously because no action has been taken so if a board member wants to go out and say our position on xyz is abc that's going to require a vote of the board before you can say that with any assurance okay all right thank you so i

176see there's a question oppression so what happened so at workshops sometimes we act by consensus on things that don't require a vote but there is consensus in the workshop or board discussion so we would say there is consensus among the board that x y and z or as discussed at the workshop on whatever date but at some point that will come back to the board for approval for a funding issue or to approve the contract i mean there there is always going to be some action of the board that documents it otherwise it's within superintendent's authority and you really don't i mean you can have a position but it's within his authority mr rosario do you have a question yeah um i think the word consensus was put in there specifically for discussion sessions or

177workshops obviously but i recall a when we were in transition from superintendents um mrs behrenborg and dr schiff may recall our board chair laura zork was she was asked to present the state of the district at a tax association meeting because we were in transition she came to us at a workshop and she asked us if she were if she could do that if we wouldn't mind that she would represent us in the tax association and there was consensus for her to do that so in that particular case it made sense that that's where this is coming from she was she had consensus for the board so yes you know as the board chair you can please represent the board in this tax association and of course we all went and we all supported but

178um that's a good example that i think would have fallen under this um i don't know i'm not married to it but i think to caution us from the possibility of muddying the waters where we really shouldn't i think it it it's an expectation as uh mrs d aggressive said so it might be smart for us to keep it in there okay dr jones well i just i keep going back to will or intent i mean i listened to what misty aggressive said you know we may not think it could be coming up soon but it could so um we just had to be very very careful all right mr rosario and i heard twice that will our intent people were in support of that um mr rosario um i okay i'm going to go

179to will or intent i'm a little confused on will or intent i i have no idea what the will or intent of the board or board members would be so and any action possibly board members cannot represent any action will or intent of the board um i that i don't think that that pertains to us i don't think we can do that um so yeah i don't i don't support that language okay miss sperenborg yeah um if i'm wrong i'll just agresta but isn't this language in the sunshine state uh sunshine law mrs spierenberg this is not statutory language if you if you it may there may be some phrase somewhere in the sunshine manual that's prepared by the attorney general's office there there is similar language in one of your um board bylaws but

180but this is not statutory language okay the reason why i ask that is because what i think we want to avoid in this is for someone to assume what someone else's vote is going to be and speak on behalf of others and their votes and um quite frankly that has happened before where i've heard oh i might vote a certain way um you know i think that's the part that we have to be very careful about as far as what the sunshine law says okay will or intent that language what are your thoughts and feedback on willard intent well that's why i was asking what the sunshine law said because um i think it it might clear it up okay but uh you know i just i that's all i want to avoid is somebody

181getting in trouble with sunshine law mr barefoot can you read it one more time please original language or proposed what you're proposing at this point i'm not proposing anything because i'm still taking in the feedback that has been proposed yes so what has been proposed is war by dr schiff board members cannot represent any action will or intent of the board in a public setting except as have has been previously discussed publicly at a dually notice and conducted meeting and ms rosario has suggested board members cannot represent the board corporate in a public setting except with board consensus at a duly noticed business meeting discussion session or workshop either one i'm fine either one defer to my colleagues all right and dr schiff i will admit i feel fairly strongly about will or intent because

182i have had community members come back to me with things that board members have said expressing that the board did x y or z or intended to do x y or z about things that were never publicly discussed and i would like it clear that you can't do that okay any other thoughts from others after hearing dr schiff's rationale yes well i think the if there was an intent or it would be covered in that bottom bullet that you can't represent the board corporate i mean you can't do that so and and to speak on someone's will or intent just i i don't understand that well i'm but i wouldn't be able to do it anyway i don't know what you're welcome you may not do that but it has happened in the past with

183other board members i don't know how they could do that though we can't that we voted on because they are out you know that we've already voted on them we know that clearly exactly the future correct but it has happened i think that if you if will or intent is important to you can we add it to the bottom language somewhere board members cannot represent any action will or intent of the board corporate i don't know that's fine okay so in my language the board members cannot represent any action will or intent of the board corporate okay are you are you okay with that dr chef yes i would like to keep all yes all three things in it uh-huh in a public setting so board members cannot represent any action will or intent of

184the board corporate in a public setting so only action okay so then i don't know keep the bottom bullet keep uh the the in a public setting except keep the entire language of the bottom bullet with board consensus okay and then before board corporate add any action will or intent so let me read yeah this and then i do have a question for mr gresta so board members cannot represent any action will or intent of the board corporate in a public setting except with board consensus at a duly notice business meeting discussion session or workshop is that language legally sound based upon the distinction between voting on an action versus establishing consensus at a meeting all of this will have to come back for legal sufficiency in any case right so when we get to

185wherever we get it'll have to be reviewed okay that's that's good excellent point my my suggestion would be to um put the word approval board approval or consensus okay that way consequences there correct correct just approval or just because if if we're talking about a situation where somebody needs to give a public statement tomorrow here's what we want you to do and all we've got noticed is a workshop you know far be it for me to stop the progress of getting words out to the public so i can see situations where you've got to get people out there very good thank you and then now we have some just added language suggestions for the section so we are actually at the bottom of this section dr schiff has added three bullets here individual board members

186may not call special meeting without the support of at least two other board members the second bullet is board members may attend public and other district committee meetings but are expected to remain as silent observers board members should not contribute to such meeting except as requested by those facilitating the meeting and then board members do not interfere with or manage the day-to-day operations of the district they are expected to support and empower the superintendent and manage district operations then the next two bullets four members are from miss rosario's suggestions board members are expected to meet with the superintendent on a weekly basis at a minimum and board members may add items to board meeting agendas for action or discussion through the superintendent seven days prior to a meeting along with the backup items if any

187and i think i made a note on that one that that's actually appears in a um another section for the board chairperson and vice chairperson so this one is actually appears all square but ms rosario's suggesting to have it in this section i'll give you a second to look over those because those are a number of additions doc you have any feedback on those editions i think i'm good with both of them as far as you know meet with the superintendent on a weekly basis at a minimum i mean we do that [Music] adding items seven days they attend public another district meetings remain silent observers unless asked do not interview or manage the day-to-day operations of the district 100 agree the individual meeting why did you specifically put that in their doctorship which part

188the first one individual board members may not call special mean without the support of at least two other members we got in trouble a couple of years ago because a board member called a special meeting there was some discussion about how other board members were informed about or asked it's it's league it's whatever is the legal guideline that says only the chair or the superintendent can call meetings a few years ago something happened where a board member called the meeting other board members were notified and asked if they could attend but not necessarily asked if they supported holding the meeting at all and we got into a whole big brouhaha about it that i'd prefer not to repeat by having it clear in protocol okay it's statutory that's right me statutory yes let me just

189make sure dr jones did you finish yeah the feedback you were going to provide so when the meeting was not called by the chair what so the meeting legally three board members right but it's either the superintendent or the chair correct by statute especially called school where me school board meeting can be called by the chairman um the meeting can be called by the superintendent at the request of the chairman and a meeting can be called by a majority of the other school board members okay so for us it would be three board members um agreed to call have a special meeting called so if that's a statutory so if someone wanted to call a meeting they whoever directs that has to get the approval of two others if it's not the board chair or

190superintendent uh correct okay that's rosario i'm sorry what was your last comment i didn't hear you well the superintendent could call a special meeting the board chair can ask the superintendent to call a special meeting and then if an individual board member wants to call it has to be approved by three a total of three school board members must agree to the degree it's a total of the meeting yeah so um yeah so that's why i was gonna say that it is but i think um can we change instead of at least two other members can we say support of at least is it what's the language total majority mrs agresta because what we're okay i'm sorry no i don't know let me think this story well or what i'm missing here in this bullet

191is that if we keep the language this way we are not also including that the superintendent has the opportunity to call a special meeting or the board chair so we need to make sure that we're not just saying that individual board members but we should include in there the board chair rather the superintendent although this is not the superintendent here um the superintendent the board chair or individual board members but the rule for individual board members to call a special meeting is different than what would be for the board chair calling the special meeting is that right mrs z aggressor if the board chair calls a special meeting does the board chair need a majority or can he just call a special meeting no the chairman has the authority to call a special meeting okay

192so he might not show up but he can come in right so i'm right so this making sure but a special meeting is different so um so i just don't want to eliminate you know the board chair having that authority to do that those are in different sections this is just the section on board member roles and responsibilities under the superintendent's attendant section and the board chair section it specifies that that's why it's not here okay and it's fine to say you know without the support of a majority of other board members but in this case it has to be three of the four or not to the chair yeah yeah all right miss rosario so any of the other any feedback on any of the other additions that were suggested the second bullet board

193members may attend public or other district committee meetings but are expected to remain as silent observers i the last uh equity committee meeting two board members spoke publicly so if that were the case board members wouldn't be able to speak at those meetings so i i don't think that we should put that in there because we don't know what if we are called to address or not address or whatever um yeah so they were not silent observers during that meeting the board members shall should not contribute to such meetings i i can't support that bullet i don't know what the you know what the extenuated what the meetings would be i went to a steam meeting not long ago and i did not i wasn't a participant or anything i just went to support the

194schools who were showing their um their their steam projects and um i was called to you know come up and say hi and you know how you know how proud i was for us moving in this direction um this would silence me from doing that i think it's the way it's written so i i do have a thought on how we can collapse it miss barenborg i know you've got some feedback i do i want to address that because i was one of the two board members that spoke at the equity meeting she wrote where it says board members should not contribute to such meetings except as requested by those facilitated in the meeting that's exactly what happened yes i was asked along with dr jones we were both specifically asked to give feedback or

195speak and that's the only time that i would give feedback or speak as if i was asked so i think that the way that this is written allows us to do that allows you at a steam meeting because a lot of times when we go to things you know we're asked would you like to say something and and i think the way that this is written allows us to do that and without interrupting yeah no i i appreciate that and i think that i'm wondering if we can clarify a little bit and i know i've been accused of being wordy so that it doesn't seem like there's a hard stop after silent observers but board members may attend public meetings and other district meetings but are expected to remain as silent observer observers except as

196requested by those facilitating the meeting that's fine could i make a comment sure yes as mrs baron boyce points out as requested the distinction i was trying to make here and you can help me with this if it's not clear the equity committee is a committee of the board that's different than showing up to a district committee meeting as an observer but then attempting to have input or dominate or otherwise speak to district business as a board member which is not our place that's the distinction i was trying to make and again that has come up in the past as being problematic so i'm trying to write it in here in a way particularly for new board members who have not seen or had that experience so that they know up front sure that's i

197think that's where i was trying to get clarity and if it's not clear then have at it i certainly see the intent when you read the whole thing my only concern is if somebody stops then they have the perception that their board members are only silent observers so that's fine i don't know if it's worth collapsing or not mr barefoot thoughts you're you're good to go i think it's fine you think it's fine because everybody everybody else can live with it as is i heard miss behrenberg say she was misreaction no i think you're correct correction okay so board members may attend public and other district committee meetings they're expected to remain as silent observers except as requested by those facilitating the meeting correct okay all right miss baerenborg your general feedback on the additions

198oh thank you um the very first one about the may not call special meeting without the support of each of the two other board members um that really needs clear language and i agree with dr schiff um when that happened i was unclear um what was going on and i think it all came as a surprise to us because it was early on in our tenure so i think that um we need it very clear there for any board members that are new coming on that they understand that that can happen and how it happens i think that's the part that's really important that we need to clarify exactly how that can happen because we can't ask each other do you want to meet do you want to meet it has to be done through

199our board secretary or through the superintendent and um that has to be very clear language i think with our attorney as to exactly how that can go about because i think that was the gray area that is a new board member i wasn't quite sure what was going on and if if i was allowed to do that okay thank you for that and i have noted on there that that language needs to be clear because that was one of my thoughts is just based upon this it's almost a little bit ambiguous how exactly that transpires so all right mr barefoot oh i'm sorry there were other items oh yes that's right the second bullet point i agree with the changes we made the third bullet point um i like that i think it's important to

200put that in the one thing that i would say uh are expected to support and empower the superintendent to manage district operations the other thing that kind of goes along with that is that we support our fellow board members on their vote even if we don't agree with it um i don't know if you all heard my um radio interview the day after a vote that i was on the downside you know i said i'm a board member this is way up the board voted and we all have gotten that training in fsba and i think that's important to put in here maybe somewhere and that sounds like a good place to put it is that we also support the vote of the board even if we don't agree with it and during the vote

201you know we support it we're on the board and we can move forward we move forward no matter what happened um so i think that's the place to put it all right as far as the two bullet points that uh mr rosario put in there uh board members are expected to meet with the superintendent on a weekly basis at a minimum yeah we don't want to take too much of his time up there are a lot of times where obviously we call or text or whatever there's a lot of those things that go on so i think that's fine and then board members may add items to the board agenda here's where i think i had a question and it's not stated here i don't know if you noticed but up top i highlighted that

202and questioned the seven the reason why is because there have been some in emergencies um and and then it's up to the board to decide we vote on the orders of the day and we decide if it's an emergency or not and we have voted those down before and we have voted to put those on the agenda before so i think um the very first meeting i attended as a matter of fact there was uh an emergency item put forward and we i can't remember if we felt like it was an emergency or not but that's why sometimes those seven days prior to the meeting with backups and also some backups something comes up in conversation with the superintendent you know i meet with him on mondays i don't know when everybody else meets with

203him but then there's something that comes up later on and now it's past the time that i could have put that out there if it's seven days whereas it might be a backup item that i get in there by friday so i have an issue with that because there are extenuating circumstances all right and i see that wow i just echoed um i see that is that particular bullet um is coming up earlier than it originally is in the protocols so we did have noted that um you had a question about that and i think others did because it was highlighted on the original document um i almost wonder if adding language uh except um with exceptions for extenuating circumstances and approval of the uh superintendent um how are what do others think about that

204well i do know that extenuating circumstances come up but it really does need to be approved by the superintendent or else we could all be throwing these things in a day before or something and um emergencies always aren't defined the same by everyone so i just think it needs to be approved by the superintendent on that one there is i'm sorry yes um there is language um and i can't remember where it is um that the the board agenda is worked on uh with the board chair and the superintendent collaboratively maybe mrs d agresta can help me with that before somewhere no no not the protocols within our uh policies or in statute not a statute is it in our board policy where did i see that i know we've received that from the fsba

205but i know that it's someplace else not want my opinion on this but but prior to the agenda being published it belongs to the superintendent why would i why wouldn't i want your opinion on that i'm asking you for your opinion um okay your uh agenda policy it's 0165.1 um says the superintendent establishes the agenda for school board meetings in consultation with the board chair there it is there it is so in consultation with the board chair if a board member wants to bring something back to the board the board member is not just are we still considering just the superintendent only or this should it say the superintendent in consultation with the board chair which would be consistent with policy i do not suggest that individual school board members contact the board chair about

206agenda items no contact the superintendent and in consult i guess the superintendent would consult with the board chair to make sure that the language shows what is in policy which is board members would add items to um through the superintendent uh what could we say who consults with the board chair who then consults or in con consultation can you clarify when in the preparation we're talking about are before this is all prior this is seven days prior this is before so if a school board member wants to place something on an agenda and it's not been published yet right right it's the soup it belongs to the superintendent so if you get the agenda item to the superintendent prior to publication day or date or time whatever it is seven days then it goes on

207the agenda but the our board policy says that he's too you just read it and consult and call right the agenda in consult in consultation i can't speak with the with the board chair but then it goes on to say individual members of this of the board may place items for discussion on an agenda by advising the superintendent of their desire to do so so an individual board member has the right to put place something on does that do did you just read discussion place an item for discussion for discussion on an agenda by advising the superintendent of their desire to do so um i mean it's a long policy it goes on and on and on so i don't what is that policy again zero one six five point one there's lots more language

208to it so i don't want to all right now i understand so imply that it's just that but does that change then what if we wanted to add an item for action does it matter or is it just a play on words um it's still this is discussion with a small d not discussion with the big d which is you know you're gen this is not referring to your agenda on categories just agenda in okay right mr barefoot we're going back to these board members do not interfere with or manage no because you have a policy that supports you adding items to an agenda no no no i'm i'm i'm going backwards to a different bullet different different bullet which bullet are you going back to board members do not interfere with the manage or

209manage the day-to-day operations of the district and you go to the next page and it's very clear that the superintendent's authority is that do we need to say it both places that's a good question so the next week under superintendent's roles with authority it's very clear that he's responsible for the day-to-day operations of the district i don't think that's necessary okay so you're saying that that's redundant with whatever we already have under what the what the it's the reciprocal of what we know the superintendent's role is okay i mean it you know to me it's not necessary that's dr schiff my concern here was less with what the superintendent does than where board members tend to overstep that authority so since this was under board member roles that was what i was trying to get

210at if there's better language because sometimes it it appears that as as you actually mentioned at the opening of this meeting board members take on operational details that are that are what we hired the superintendent to do that's what i was trying to get out but if i didn't say it well i'm completely open to other language so if you want to put it there and i understand what you're saying board members do not interfere with the superintendent's management of the district that's fine as opposed to all the it means fewer words yep members do not interfere with the superintendent's management of the district that's good actually that's much better all right very good all right so we are close i have another comment on that please yes ms berenborg thank you um that last

211item again you know i i made a comment that hasn't come up again but um dr jones said you know it's the superintendent's uh agenda until it comes to the board and we vote on the orders of the day and that is true so let's say you haven't been privy to this but let's say that you have a superintendent that you want an item put on there but they don't want to put it on there so therefore because this policy says we have to do it seven days in advance if you're a board member and you're not the chair then you don't have the voice or the ability to put something on the agenda to discuss with your fellow board members if the superintendent doesn't want you to do so that's where i get a

212little worried about this i'm not saying it's happening now i'm saying that it could have happened or will happen but so go ahead but we then have the ability to add an item the day of the meeting once the meeting is duly convened it becomes our agenda it's no longer the superintendent's agenda so at that point we unfortunately wouldn't have wouldn't give board members an opportunity to you know review it ahead of time but at a meeting we can then add it to the agenda okay then then why have this here with the seven days ahead of time and backup if we don't have the ability to put it on there what works what you're saying is if um if the superintendent doesn't want to put it on the meeting then we have to bring

213it up at the orders of the day and now board members haven't gotten the backup and we're surprising board members again uh that that's that's the irritation is you know people feel like they're surprised so i don't know how to word it but i know that it is the superintendents before the meeting starts but at this point the way it's written it looks like we can't put agenda items on there unless we give seven days prior notice or end the super so i think you know in time's sake at this point we're probably not this particular one i think is going to be a sticking point um as i look through the feedback and it actually is not even part of the section it was added to the section um so i'm almost wondering and

214we can i can also talk with susan to get some additional information about this to see if there's any suggested language we can put that would address some of the concerns that are being brought forward because i do hear the what ifs of these different scenarios that could plausibly happen so if we can table this particular one put it in the parking lot because it's for another section we can decide whether we want to add it to this section as well i think i understand why it was suggested to be added to this section because board members are involved in doing this um but what are thoughts on the other bullets that we talked about um adding it sounded like we had consensus on the other bullets with the revisions that were made yeah that

215was fun i just wanted to say one thing i think miss berenborg spoke about it you know when there is a 3-2 vote you know whether you're in the a's or the nays it's very very important to say that is of the will of the board obviously people could see how you voted if they look back at the record and so forth but you know when we talk about protocol and i've really enjoyed this dr jacobs and especially the feedback from the board members and it's how we are being presented to our public and what we're doing for our parents and what they are looking at how we do things which i think is so very very important in our actions in our responses and so forth but you know whether it you're in the

216yay or the nay the will of the board moves forward and we move forward with with whatever it was and i think how we act up here on an individual basis and and how we share and talk with one another is just so very important for our for our students and our staff members thank you dr chef um quick comment we are about halfway through this and 15 minutes over time so in order for us to get through this it will take us at least another couple of hours i personally have to go i have an appointment at 4 30. um my suggestion is we're going to have to take this up again at another time um and i know the superintendent had a couple of items but um apologies to my fellow board members

217but i have to go um mr barefoot who's going to call you brian um might i propose because we've with dr jacob's help we've definitely accomplished much more than i thought we would accomplish so i'm kind of happy about that um i would be in support of um tabling the rest i think we've actually covered up until the superintendent's role and authority so that would be fantastic if at our next meeting we can just pick it up right there maybe by that time we'll have a revised edition of the first half that we've covered and our meeting now and then um mr dr moore oh my gosh my name's dr moore um and board members would you agree or uh think it would be appropriate to add this to our next board discussion session not

218superintendent workshop discussion session it's fine we're as far as i'm assuming wherever it fits perfect and the sooner the better but before dr shift goes let's give a round of applause for dr jake fantastic john could you please facilitate all our meetings thank you dr jacob thank you very much get the gavel i think we did a lot today i i'm on another board dr jacob said i'd like to invite you to boston facilitation i mean i mean you did as good a job of hurting cats as i've seen in a long time dr moore are you going to bring these items you're not cats you know where where will we find everything the carefree character i i can quickly peruse those items each each um each board member has been on those particular items

219they're very straightforward yes it's all very very similar to what we did last time and the chair will indulge me i'll just take one or two minutes um to go over these with my glasses on um let me i'll take them kind of out of order uh the out of field list is coming for the board that has to be reproved prior to within the first semester each each year you see once again significant impro significant progress on the out of field waiver as an example there were 111 teachers i'm sorry there were 122 teachers that were out of field in on 10 19. we've now reduced that to 89 teachers being out of field which is a part of the performance plan and it's a humongous feat when you consider that we have 52

220teachers on that list who within their first three years so that is a big contributor to why that number is up so you go back from 10 18 where there was 152 down to 89 and you'll see significant reductions in that as we go through and support these new teachers with our out of field report mr bass if you would quickly cover the capital improvement projects i know that's straightforward but i think you can do that yes sir through the chair we've got another document we've already briefed you on the five-year work plan we have another document that we need to get approved that is the five-year capital plan basically a lot of the same information is in this plan that was in the five-year work plan it is uh this is more detailed moving

221forward through it you know and just to highlight some items that are in both just for the record i'm really excited about some upcoming projects we've got with the hvac air handler exchange out next starting next fiscal year the glendale elementary cafeteria expansion in 2022 2023 we will begin the sebastian river middle school wing expansion and cafeteria expansion if you look back in the five-year work plan you saw we have 154 student stations that are in relocatables which are portables that will eliminate that so that's really good to get our kids in a brick and mortar setting uh security enhancements that we're all well aware of fire alarm upgrades in 2425 and then in 23 20 23 through 26 three years we have a chiller replacement uh movements going on too so all right and

222then mr fagan if you could review the uh care hair which is our our health care supply uh yes sir through the chair thank you very much this is an amendment second amendment to the care here contract it was time to look at the cost we were able to they came to us with a reduction of 13 percent save us about 75 to 85 000 a year about 225 000 over the three year amendment one of the main advantages of this is that we did have to go out and rebid that we mean you potentially wind up with new providers new doctors a whole new transition for all of our employees who go to care here we didn't really think this was a great idea because number one your doctors that are there to have

223a non-compete agreement so they would probably not be at the facility you also have that medical market what's going on in the marketplace how well could you get new doctors who are where are they coming from and etc uh transition new provider is always a challenge with the new system new doctors maintaining the records but also one of the biggest items is that continuum of care you know once you get for someone to change a different doctor sometimes a little resistance to keep going back nobody likes change uh and there's only a couple other three providers who provide these kind of services so it's not like you have a massive market out there that you can pick from so based upon the analysis it was a voted to go ahead and just renew the contract

224and renew it out for another three years and the final item is the uh performance accountability system that is the final uh review from my performance over the course of last school year is not an action item there's no continuation of contract that i'm asking for there's no extension in contract that i'm asking for a renewal i did have the opportunity to meet with all five board members in review the performance evaluation system and i guess i'll put that in a later agenda so we can have the time to go over that and respond to any questions not that there's any action to be taken but truly do appreciate the feedback that is ongoing from from board members in that process but i'll place that on a on another agenda can i ask a question

225uh this i don't know the answer i wouldn't be asking you the answer in terms of compensation how is that typically handled for the superintendent it is it is the chair it is negotiated so right now we negotiated a set price uh with no increases in over the course of the three and a half years of the contract um okay that that how i can take that i don't know that uh uh mr zara you were here in the beginning so so you have a contract that's fixed for three and a half years contract is is fixed through 2024 at the end of next school year with a satisfactory evaluation so if this was one year from today there would be the opportunity uh then to renew it for one additional year but that's all

226it does and extend the current contract in terms of compensation there's nothing go ahead okay um just to oh i've got so much stuff in front of me right now i'm sorry um the superintendent's contract does say that beginning with the fiscal year of july 1 2021 through june 30 of 2022 and each fiscal year thereafter so in this current fiscal year if the superintendent receives an overall performance rating of satisfactory or greater on the evaluation as described further on then he is entitled to receive the same percentage wage increase on the same basis granted to other 12-month administrators of the district so that commences with the 21-22 fiscal year which is the fiscal year we're in right now so correct me if i'm wrong that if the board if the board chose to it

227should have been done a while ago i guess but if the board chose to increase his salary consistent with everybody else's that would be appropriate at least to have that discussion correct yes if if the board wanted to do something other than what stated in the employment agreement um certainly have that discussion and we could just do a real quick amendment that establishes whatever it is that you are looking to do from a compensation perspective but but i but we will amend the agreement to reflect it so that we're it's clear for audit purposes all right um i don't know whether mrs behrenberg or mr zoe want doc jones too but you guys were he has a contract until next year we can have this discussion next year so at the end of this year

228we have to he's he hasn't even received the full evaluation this is the first time that he's received the full evaluation from all board members he hasn't received two years of evaluations so it would be in a it would be too premature for us to have that discussion not saying that he's not that the discussion is not worthy of it but it's way too early to just to determine whether we should what we should do moving forward we have this year and that according to the uh his contract uh we that discussion could happen in june or july of 2022 year from now yeah a year from essentially that doesn't mean that we can't amend the contract i mean he's been here for two for a year plus x number of 18 19 months yeah

229we're not i'm not ready to have that discussion right now it's 4 22 though the part where it says if he has um evaluation which he does um and he also gets compensation increase according to what we gave all the other administrators correct the same percentage how's that worded um yes beginning with the fiscal year july 1 2021 through june 30 2022 if the superintendent receives an overall performance rating of satisfactory or greater on the evaluation and then there's describes the evaluation but i won't read that he shall receive for that fiscal year the same percentage wage increase on the same basis granted to other 12-month administrators of the district okay so he wouldn't be receiving the same amount then he would get a little bit more for next year correct that that percent would

230be two the administrators this this school year received two percent this year and they received two percent last year so as i read it mr gustin you can correct me that would be two percent you're to july entitled right right she reads it yes and they they got it for this fiscal year automatically that's in the contract yeah it it should have been no but that says the evaluation of 21 to 22. beginning of july beginning july 21 to 22. beginning with the fiscal year the 21-22 fiscal year so that's now yeah we're in it right now in each subsequent fiscal year thereafter if the superintendent receives an overall performance rating of satisfactory or greater yeah we don't know that yeah and he shall receive for the for the for that fiscal year the same

231percentage wage increase if any granted to other 12-month administrators of the district right so we don't know that yet because we have to look at his year performance 2021 which he would receive next year 2022. no 21 22. but but based on his evaluation for the 2021 year which just finished no that was 20 21. not 21-22 but his contract says 2122. i know what it says i'm just i'm asking the question that his evaluation for the year just ended uh came out at four point whatever it was which satisfactory is three so he was well above satisfactory which is an average of three his average was four plus i forget the exact number the contract says he's not entitled to an increase until next year right that does not prevent us from amending the

232contract and and giving him an increase this year based on last year's performance of four point whatever it was certainly far above satisfactory that's the question if you don't feel that he's entitled to that or you don't well that's fine i'm asking a question uh mrs barenport right um that's why i asked her to read that language so we were very clear and the fact that we have not brought this up because we didn't have his evaluation until now um he gets evaluated later than all the other employees so because of that and the other employees got the two percent this past year right this past year then i don't see why we can't do the same for our superintendent that's gone i think above and beyond during covid um with all of this but

233again that's your choice to vote it up or down i don't see a problem with doing the same thing that we did for all the other employees as long as it happened for the other employees yeah that i one i would like i wanted clarification i think i understand it and i would suggest i would like to uh recommend that we we add that to the agenda as soon as possible and then make that determination and we can make it retroactive to july 1 just like the other employees were and we've done that with this with the union contracts they went retroactive dr jones i came in november obviously sent in the evaluation and met with dr moore and as far as our our administrators and dr moore i would really agree that he received

234the two percent also i think i think fsba said to us it's the hardest the board has had to work in 50 years and i can't imagine um superintendent principal's teachers hardest day have probably worked and i would like to see that as an action item soon all right i've got a couple more things to see yes ma'am um it's 4 28. can we do it this afternoon um well just the comments on the thing so far care here contract thank you for moving forward on that mr fagan capital improvement plan looks good especially for our air handlers and the out of field report we'll always have those in esau but hopefully we can get to them but mr fagan have we got a date on the attorney interviews you said you put that out

235for us and that's important for me to get on my calendar yeah do you have them all here right now mr pig for the interviews and your short listing is on the 16th of november what i need to get is a consensus on when you will actually approve the approval of that rfp and we've got some tentative dates out now the 23rd 23rd 22nd 23rd and 29th it appears the 22nd is has more consensus but miss baronborg can you tell us what day's best fits your schedule did you not see my email mr fagan oh probably not not today no ma'am okay it's the 29th i said was best for me um people may or may not realize i think is it uh thanksgiving the week of the week before the 29th or is it

236the week of the 29th 20th i'm not sure it's 25th miss beerenberg okay so that's why i put the 29th because i just figured it was best to stay away from that week of thanksgiving but you know i can make it available the 22nd the 29th me was a better date through the chair that basically leaves the 22nd mr barefoot's available doc jones board member jones is available on the 22nd mrs rosario you're available on the 23rd uh dr schiff said she was available any day any time just have to be via teams and the board member bear morgan would make you the 22nd as well so we would have one two three we'd have four members three or three on site one by teams the 29th i'm fine with the 29 too but you

237know okay i am too mr pagan just 23rd no 23rd was no for you okay i'm okay with the 20 i mean we're going i think that's the day that we're supposed to check in at the tampa fsba november 30th through the december 3rd i have check-in on the 30th i mean on the 29th it doesn't matter my point is that if we do it in the morning it would be easier so that i have enough time to travel correct i'm going to do it no no this is a 15 minute it's almost a technicality we can't approve the contract the evening of the day and workshop when we finalize it we go through the interview you make your selection we have to wait the three days going on the day you just suggested first

238thing in the morning i too have to travel as well yeah we can do it we can be out of here by nine o'clock okay okay i threw the chair so it'd all be on the 29th approximately nine o'clock will that work yep thank you all right thank you that's what we got mr board yeah i had a question about uh just out of field again um esau especially at fellsmere elementary uh what are we doing i know it's always been an issue for how many times we can offer esol um horses could you kind of tell us has have we improved that are we putting out more courses are we offering them so that you know teachers have the opportunity because i've heard both things i've heard that well they're out there but nobody's

239signing up but i've also heard that there's not enough or it's not at a convenient time isn't it offered online now so through the chair in 2019 there were 101 out of field because of esau and now we are at 43 and looking at that 43 a teacher who's coming in in a new career becoming certified you know they have three years to get that certification so that's why you see that number jumping to 43 which is still very small in comparison to what it was prior to my arrival so it is down to 43. we will continue to work with we offer those courses at school sites uh there's a system in place to drastically reduce those numbers that's what took it from 101 to 35. so as this report comes back to you

240in the spring you'll see a significant reduction it is something that's on my evaluation or the strategic plan to reduce it by another two percent it was ten percent down to eight percent now we're shooting for six uh so it is something that we track very diligently and we'll make sure that we we hit that when you look at um fails mayor to speak specifically to the ask it is a a complex environment because the overwhelming number of students are ell and it's just providing when they hire new teachers it's getting that training for them and i can tell you from a systems perspective that population of ell students continues to grow rapidly we have students in schools that are on the south side who literally speak no english at all so we really need

241to look at how we're providing those services we need to be a little bit more fluid in providing response and support for those students you know esol strategies is one thing but really ensuring that we students feel connected and in our schools it's a very very school very very scary thing when you're the only only person in a school or a classroom who does not speak the language and i've you know i spent 26 years living that so there's opportunities for us drastically to improve well the reason why i bring that up is i know in the past um teacher shortage in in florida has allowed people to come in from another to have a degree in another area and then just take a test and teach and then we have to support them you

242know for the discipline and the management of the classroom but i saw some legislation that says now that they have to attend um a preparation program like they have at irsc question is a lot of colleges the students that are graduating with education degrees have to get their esau before they graduate are they doing that with these preparation courses that we know of and or could we suggest they do that so that they are coming to us with that so through the chair colleges of education indian river state college is a great example you graduate with your reading endorsement along with special ed you graduate with your ell your esau endorsement very few of our hires are coming straight out of the university with those particular degrees the majority of our hires as is across

243the state are second career teachers or a bachelor's degree in a non-education field so it's that first scenario in which you described where we're providing that support through mr meyer's office okay but but i saw legislation that they have to attend now um a prep program have you seen that and it's not a prep program through mr meyer's office it's a prep program through a college yeah they they have they have that for cut through colleges of education so you graduate and you have those endorsements already in place so you have my daughter would be a perfect example um already having that coursework or those requirements met but you also have those degree people where they have temporary certification and the requirements within that three year period is to obtain um the ell and esau

244endorsement i know what i'm referring to is the new i saw legislation somewhere i'm not sure if it's passed yet or if it's proposed legislation i'll have to look specifically for those people that aren't graduating with education that have graduated already with something else before they can step in a classroom they have to be enrolled in one of these prep programs that's what i'm talking about through the chair i would say that's proposed because that is not the current practice uh that we're following and they're certain they're all certified through the state of uh through the florida department of education okay i'll look for that legislation then else mrs rotario um i just want to piggyback off of this um topic with the esol this is an area of passion for me this is what

245i taught this is what i'm certified in um teaching english as a second language in new york was very very different than it is here in florida here in florida there is no true bilingual classroom mostly at least not here in indian river it might be that way in in miami however well this is where i'm going however and mostly because of the numbers if your school does not have particular numbers to create a bilingual classroom which means that you'll have the majority or only esol students in that one class and then the teacher would be a certified esau teacher able to teach bilingual education two languages bilingual either spanish and english or chinese and english whatever it is but it also depends on the makeup of this of the students so if you have

246students who are primarily who whose their home language is in spanish and then you have some whose home language is chinese for example you can't mix those together and create a bilingual classroom because that's not equitable then those who have the the e the chinese home language would essentially be immersed in a full english program and only the spanish students received that true bilingual education so that that's something obviously that's something that you all would take a take a look at but i'm passionate about this the other area is immersion is how do you do esol immersion appropriately um again it all depends on the number of esol students in your school um i don't i think that we should push the lower the threshold and not wait until that whatever that max is like

247if you have a total of 20. um i think if we have 15 we should start considering an immersion program or something like that no i see you're smiling and i know you want to step in here and i'm definitely i can't wait because i i can talk about this all day long but before we get there one of the things that i've noticed is um even when i was an assistant principal when you have an esau it is statch it is statue somewhere i forget exactly where but it is written down that at a minimum esau students should be provided at a minimum a curriculum glossary or a subject area glossary so like a math glossary in both english and spanish translation glossary or science translation glossary or you know something else and if

248they are in the classroom it would be even another general education classroom a bilingual translation dictionary to help support them that's not the same as one that has definitions in there and that's something that i think is lacking we're not doing a good job with that at a bare minimum these students should have access to in every classroom that they go to a translation dictionary from their home language into their into english and vice versa to help support them in their learning until we get to wherever you're going to discuss right now go for it through the chair just in response and this is i will nerd out with you all day hey we're not teaching we're not talking about masks um i think fellsmere is a dual language school and although it's in its

249second year of implementation and it's adding a great level every single year i've had the opportunity to walk that school a number of times um slight setback with the tragedy they just experienced but i i guarantee with the fidelity of what they are doing at that particular school it will be a model dual language school in the coming years it is absolutely amazing and i would encourage you all of you to go see it you literally can go in one classroom and they're doing ela in english and then you go to the next classroom and it's it's math and spanish and they flip-flop it it's it's it's a great model i enjoy seeing it in terms of immersion i think that's where we're going so we rolled out over 36 new initiatives this year i

250fully expect a new initiative initiative to be in looking on this side of town uh an immersion program and i think we we have the numbers we don't have all of the kids in one particular school but we have a handful at glendale a handful at citrus so maybe creating something to accelerate their their the mastery of english while they're here which is a immersion program and i've seen the the positive effects of really taking the immersion approach versus slowly doing it over the course of three or four years and you get kids right back in track so there's a lot of work to do there but it is significant that we have to have a plan in place as we go forward and it's a good thing it just shows how we are growing

251as a community um and we just need to be response responsive and prepared for it let me tell you when i was at stormgrove and i promise i'll end with this when i was at storm grove um it broke my heart broke my heart that the only esol services that in particular that these students were receiving was that they were being pulled from a content area to sit in the library sit at a computer and do um oh gosh what is that language program rosetta stone thank you so much they would sit there for 45 minutes and do rosetta stone and that was considered esau i mean that was a while ago it would broke my heart and then we send them back to school back to class but they're still in their math they're

252still in their science they're still in their social studies they're still in their other content area and they still don't understand it's just it it just was just absolutely it's a disservice a complete disservice and i know that that gap is widening and we've got to keep an eye on that yep okay that's it meeting adjourned 443. thank you you