001One, I'd like to Good evening everyone. Uh it's 6:00 I'd like to open up our public hearing with the reading of the legal notice unless someone else would like me to do it. I shall read Yes. All right, legal notice of public hearing April 15th, 2026 Board of Selectmen Town of Portland. Pursuant to section 503A of the Portland Town Charter, the Board of Selectmen of the Town of Portland, Connecticut shall hold a public hearing on Wednesday, April 15th, 2026 at the Portland Library, 20 Freestone Avenue, Portland, Connecticut at 6:00 p.m. to obtain public comments and questions regarding a proposal to appropriate $109 million for for the following projects. One, the renovation and expansion of Valley View Elementary School into a pre-K to grade two school, the Valley View School project. Number two, the renovation of
002Gildersleeve Elementary School into a grade three to five school, the Gildersleeve School project. Number three, various capital improvements at Portland Middle School, the Middle School project. And four, capital improvements at the middle school or at the Portland High School, the High School project. And collectively with the Valley View School project and the Gildersleeve project and the Middle School project, also known as the projects, and to authorize the issuance of the town's bonds or notes in an amount not to exceed $58 million to finance the appropriation with the balance to be funded by grants received for the project. The town is projecting reimbursement from the state of Connecticut in the amount of $66 million, $502,000 for the project. Public access will be made through Zoom. I see we have one online right now. And this is
003dated March 23rd, 2026 and was posted in the River East. So, with that, I'd like to open up the meeting to any comments or questions from the audience. Zack, I I have to look Very good. Please go up State your name and your address. And speak clearly. Uh my name is Judy Grippo. I live at 10 Middle Haddam Road, Portland, Connecticut. Um I'd like to address the Selectmen and the audience of one. Um I just want to give you a little background about myself. I live in I've lived in Portland all my life. Um there's three generations of women in my family that have attended the Brownstone uh school, including my mother who graduated from high school in 1930s, um my [clears throat] daughter and myself. So, I have a vested interest in the Brownstone
004School, and I'm here tonight to address those concerns. Um I My daughter was 5 years old when the modules were at Valley View, and I came before the board then and said, "I don't want my daughter going to a module school." And the first Selectman and the Selectman at that time said, "Oh, no, the modules will be down before your daughter gets to school." Okay, lesson learned. I don't think the modules came down till she was in high school. Um I was also very um active in the high school renovation. My daughter was in high school at the time and graduated in uh '04. So, um I am pro-education, obviously. Um I'm a nurse, and I have a bachelor's degree that I went back in the my 50s to get. So, there's no question that
005I am for education. But my question is that the Brownstone School, as a historical building and um a school that is in my heart, um hasn't been addressed by the Selectmen or the Board of Ed. Um I've heard well, it's going to stay in town possession. We have 5 years. Um probably in 5 years half of you aren't even going to be here. You promised me tonight that the Brownstone's going to be looked after. I'm not sure that's going to happen, just like uh Central School, which I attended, I hate to say. Don't start using your math, but I went to Central School, and then I saw that I saw that sit there for 20 years while the Board of Ed and the Board of Selectmen um went back and forth until finally it became
006what it is now, the Town Hall. So, I My concerns are for the Brownstone School and what's going to happen to it, and that this referendum does not address that issue, and you know, past experiences that verbal uh commitment from the board, from the Selectmen, from the uh Board of Ed, uh it it doesn't weigh much in my opinion. So, that's my concerns, and I want to know, you know, what is going to happen? What's What are you going to do to protect that school? You know, um and that's my concerns. Very good. >> Thank you. So, let's see if we have any other questions, and [clears throat] then we can I guess see what we can do to answer that question. I understand your concern. Any more questions? You've asked them all. Okay. All
007right. By the way, I also want to uh introduce Matt Ritter, who is our bond counsel. I've asked him to be in this meeting as well to in case there were other questions that either our members had or the audience had as well. So, he'll be here at this at the special meeting at 6:30. So, Matt, thank you very much for attending tonight. We appreciate that. So, so I'm going to I'm going to take a shot to answer your question to some degree, and Selectmen up here, if you if you if you can fill in any gaps that I missed, because I I've heard that concern. I've been in town 26 years. I was aware of the high school project back then, the middle school high school project. And I've heard a lot of stories
008about that. I've been involved in the Board of Selectmen now for dozen years, 14 years. It seems a long time. I've heard a great deal about that school from residents that either gone there have have had their kids go there. Um the the Portland Historical Society, Susan and the rest of them, they imprinted upon me the importance of that building, and I think that's I think that's the right thing to do with that building. It's a it's a historic treasure. It's an important building for the town. It's not going anywhere. And that whole decision on Brownstone has weighed on everyone's mind that's been part of the committees involving this, especially over the last couple years because of what happened with the last vote. With the mega school project, that was one of the reasons I
009believe that were given as to why people couldn't vote yes on that. The money didn't matter as much. I mean, financially it was it was it was economic to build one school to house. There was a lot of benefits to that. But what to do with that school, I think was the emotional reason why it didn't pass. Other things as well, but that was the main thing. And I think in fairness, there were a number of ideas. They had developers that went there and looked at it. But at that point, Brainard Place hadn't really engaged fully. The spa hadn't started building there. There were a number of unknowns, and it was just a sleepy small town street, a Main Street, where developers didn't know what they could do with that. So, there was some interest.
010The committee members could probably better talk to you about what the what the reaction was to developers, but there wasn't a huge over overwhelming interest in doing different things with that building for a lot of reasons, cost, etc. But it is a beautiful building. The last committee that looked at this was very serious about that and understood that that was going to be a big deal, and you're probably representing a good percentage of the people out there in town that wonder about that building. First of all, why was it chosen? Of all the schools of the three schools we could have chosen, that would have been the most expensive school to renovate and the most complicated one to do and keep it as a school. It was made as a high school, and there was
011a number of reasons why it wasn't chosen. Also on the Main Street, so you don't want a lot of kids there right now. That's that's a a point of stress for a lot of parents that drop off their kids or have their kids walk there. So, it was a it was an easier one to pick, but because we have 5 years of use for that building, realize that's that's the truth. If this referendum does go through, we have 5 years that where that building's going to be fully used as a school. We need it as a swing space so we don't use modules, and it saves us a ton of money by the way doing that. But it is going to be filled up for 5 years because we have to renovate Valley Valley View
012first, and then while we while we do that, Brownstone and Gildersleeve are filled up. Then we're going to renovate Gildersleeve after Valley View fills up, and we're still using Brownstone as filler space. In that time, we will be as a board forming a committee very soon after the vote. And again, I hope it's positive for a lot of reasons, but we will be forming a committee, and we will be inviting folks like yourself and the Historic Society and members of this board and members of the Board of Ed and those that are interested and love that building so we can fine-tune exactly what to do in 5 years. Um it would be easy for me to say right here we have four or five ideas that we can give you, and I could easily give
013you an idea. We could do it mixed use. We could put police there and parks and rec and and new services, and we could uh add on to the Oak Hill um you know, group that's renting rooms there, too, and make it cost cost uh you know, efficient for us. It's got solar on there, so the cost to carry that building is $120,000 or so, according to Bob Shay. So, we could cover that cost and make it a functional building for the town right now if we had to. But 5 years is a long time, and Main Street's going to change a lot in 5 years, and there might be a better use that the committee and maybe others that are on there could come up with that building, but I can assure you not
014there's not one person on this board that is not committed to keeping that building the way it looks, whether we have to write something into the code for that building that says if someone's going to take it over, the look and feel of it has to be similar because it is an important building to the town. Um but I'm not going to extend what we could promise today because 5 years is a long time. Nordic Nordic Spa will be done and up and running for 4 years. That may very well change the nature of how the riverfront is. We may have more business down there. It may make it even more valuable to do something that would be great for the town or a mix of business and and and municipal. So, there's a lot
015of unknowns, but again, I'm I'm speaking for myself. Anyone else can jump in, but we're aware of that. I've seen that on social media. I've seen that when I go to the restaurants. People ask me about that cuz I know I'm involved up to my eyeballs in this. They know I'm an advocate for it for all the reasons that I'm willing to tell anyone that's willing to listen, but that school is important. Um it will stay important to the town. Um and um and there could be a a number of uses for that building right now. I I can think of a number. Everyone here has talked about uh some of the possible uses in that building. So, I don't know if that addresses all of your concerns, but we certainly will uh you know,
016put some I guess uh skin in the game in terms of getting a group together that will be charged with uh doing something with that as as this board as the board selects and and getting that to work. Um now, realistically, if they started working next year, I'm not sure what they'd be able to do cuz there's so many unknowns and it's 4 or 5 years away from the uh from getting it done, but getting it started, I think is important and we need to do that. So, I don't know if that's answered some of your questions or concerns, but um I think that's the most honest answer I could give to you about it is we understand that, we want it. And I guess I guess the the last point is it's rare to
017get unanimity on anything nowadays. We have a board that's unanimous about doing the project knowing Brown Stone is important. We have unanimity unanimity on the Board of Education because the same reason cuz they it would be so good for the town in so many ways. And they understand the importance of Brown Stone. We have the Republican and Democrats in town have talked about this and there's virtual unanimity uh on that side as well. So, there's a great deal, but I think more importantly the folks that were against it before, the Portland Historic Society and the ones that really had an issue with what to do with that school are on board with this. Maybe not everybody. I think you might be in that category, but um but most people have have understood that that we
018we understand the importance of that. So, I'll get off my my soapbox. Um but I hope that helps a little bit. Okay, Judy. I'll tell you. I I was the representative for this group and sat on that school committee. And I think I was the one who in those meetings, I mean, you know who my father was. I mean, Portland history was very important to him. And I that building is a beautiful thing. It has to remain architecturally and historically. It's it's part of Main Street. The murals in the auditorium at WPA murals, I mean, they're historical items. They can't go anywhere. But when I sat on that committee, I I recalled the previous plan and how people were kind of walking on their head and trying to figure out what the town could take
019over ownership of and everything to make that building work. And then as we walked through that building and all the others and you know, the the first thing the architects proposed was that maybe we knock off the two additions off the back of the building because it was so oversized for modern education requirements. But the the biggest problem as I saw with that building was the the building built in the 1930s, the old high school building because it is not built to meet current standards for elementary children because we're you know, we've now got we've got a secondary school up on the high up on the hill for high school and and the middle school. This is going to fill that that lower age gap. So, I'm sitting on that committee and I'm balancing this
020thing out. Okay, we this committee is trying to find the best plan and the Valley View and Guildersleeve are the two schools that were built as elementary schools for that age group and had in my mind had the best flexibility. Um you know, looking at what we do with this, the other thing as Mike alluded to, the costs would have been in the millions of dollars to bring in temporary classrooms to house our children while you're going through these this 5-year plan. This was the school that allowed us that flexibility to be able to use that as a swing school and to be able to do that. Um you know, I I said to Mike and I said I'm not speaking out of class. I think what should happen is shortly after the vote, if
021everything goes in favor, a committee needs to be put together. There was a committee a couple years ago and there were people that there were some ideas that were brought up and you could certainly review that. I think another committee needs to be put in place. Personally, I feel that there needs to be involvement by the Portland Historical Society on that committee and there needs to be again, I'm I'm not an attorney, I'm not a realtor, but I think there needs to be look into some way to put an historical requirement on that building. Cuz as you said, I mean, that could be a town building now and that could be a town building in 15 or 20 years, but 30 years down the road when a bunch of us aren't here anymore, you want
022to make sure that there's that building is still historically safe. >> [clears throat] >> And I I think that all those things can be accomplished. Where you go with it, uh whether it's a municipal building or a shared municipal building as Mike alluded to and and the the superintendent will tell you that Oakhill currently leases two classrooms and I believe they're they've already alluded to the fact that they're willing to do at least five. Um you know, and there is solar on the roof, the windows have been replaced, we just put [clears throat] new boilers in that building or in the process of it. Um so, I'll you know, for the 5-year period that building is definitely saving us money and helping us through this process. Once that's all done, we will have a plan
023of some kind. Hey, your parent you and your parents live around the corner from Central School and I was the guy that that called the town hall that winter when the roof collapsed and went into the building. And and that's Sean and I got involved in this for the same reason because we we watched Central School fall apart. But you know, I I really think and I and I said this on the committee too and I'm sure it's in the minutes, just because that was a school doesn't mean mean that it can needs to continue to be a school. There are many historic buildings of that era that now are apartment buildings for the elderly, there are multiple purposes of them, they're municipal buildings, they're all over the all over the place. But the point
024was to try to find the best schools that you could make the best deal with the state and find the best reimbursement for it and I believe this committee found the best two schools. Um and I completely agree with you that building cannot fall apart, that building cannot be boarded up and unused, but I mean, some of the ideas we batted around and again, this isn't these are not concrete, these are just ideas that were thrown around, but the thought was you could use the cafeteria for your your um food pantry. You could put social services in one of the offices on the first floor. So, if somebody comes in and needs help, you can take them downstairs to the food pantry and give them some help. Um park and wreck, there's a number of
025different things and the one thing we found out during when that committee was in process was that the Portland Police Department currently is they they to meet some of the state police requirements, they need more space in the building they're currently in. So, there's a lot of things that that can play out in a positive vein for this building. But I I I think >> [clears throat] >> honestly, to to hinge this vote on what our children need and to risk losing that huge state reimbursement on a question that can honestly be resolved, I think. I I think that we we need to move forward with the plan, but we need to have the right committee and the right people to make sure that that building stays important to the town. But I just I
026I it it doesn't lend itself to an elementary age school. It just it's a it's a square peg in a round hole. I agree, John. I yeah, I my first to the police department, one of the one of the major needs there the shortfalls of the PD on Main Street is that the it doesn't have a sally port. Pull car in, you've got that gated area in the back where you pull cars in and have your parking there. So, the other thing is the the the the school also lies within the village district and I don't know um you know, the the village district guidelines, you know, I don't you know, whether we meet that. Yeah. >> Okay. No, I was going to say I think for um I agree with what's been said. I
027mean, these are the things we've talked about. Um to me what [clears throat] was important when we were looking at this is that school is that I think we can have a lot of confidence that um we know of uses that we can use for that school. Um we know we need it for 5 years, we know having is going to save us a lot of money with the swing space, but beyond that, there are real uses for our community that we could use in that school. And we with our association with Oakhill and expanding that, we would still be able to use the majority of that school, but we would also have some funding that would offset the operating carrying cost for that school. Um or at least there's a high degree of confidence
028that's where we would be. Um so, when I go into this, I look at it this way. We know we've got some plans that we could use the school for. What we don't know is what the market's going to look like in 5 years and if they're going to be the best plans. So, and it's hard for us to predict what it's going to look like 5 years out, but for the security of the school in the long-term preservation of the school, we at least know regardless of what the market looks like, we have some real needs here in our community and some mechanisms to carry cover the costs, which means that when I assess like do the risk analysis of it, it's very low risk. We know things we can use that school for
029that would enhance our community. The accreditation discussion, I mean, that with the police needing more space, that was before we added additional officers as well. Um we we know we need to address that. So, moving, for example, parks and rec over, youth services over to the school, using Oak Hill to expand the use, um that's one mechanism the food bank can certainly use more um use more space, especially given the fact that the usage at the senior center has also grown. So, you've got two expanding uses in the same facility. So, there's [clears throat] a lot of ways that we could certainly use that building in a way that's not going to be a drag on the on the the town where the costs are going to be covered and will enhance um the usability
030of that town for, you know, the usability of that building, so it won't sit empty. But, we also I think going to be very prudent in looking at this and saying, but in a realistic and say, but we also may 5 years down the road see a better use for the town. We have to make sure we're open to that as we're evaluating. Absolutely. You know, right now, I mean, just from a pure process standpoint, uh the number one thing right now is the school consolidation initiative and and getting it approved. Yeah. Right? If it doesn't get approved, 5 years from now Brownstone's going to be a school. No. If this referendum fails, we're closing a school. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> We have to. We were supposed to close one 20 years ago when the
031middle school was built. I You can put a small addition on Valley View, but if one of the schools is going to close. Without the uh without all the subsidies, right? Charles's calculations were What is it that we saved? A minimum of 800,000 a year. Yeah. Yeah. We we'd be wasting $900,000 a year by leaving that school. Mhm. Well, I don't think that's going to matter. I think it's going to pass. Mhm. And it should pass. >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm hoping that that's not the only and and you probably represent a number of people out there. I'm hoping that's not the only decision on the yes or no because the value of the two new schools and the educational improvement for the teachers and the students and the saving of a million dollars
032a year, the upgrade to the high school middle school, the right-sizing of the school. I mean, there's a whole laundry list of things that it solves. It solves a lot of problems. There's been a lot of smart people on this board and and committees before us that have looked at it. And and that's probably the biggest unknown, but even the unknown about this uh we have a number of uses that could happen, but 5 years from now, um there may be other uses that as Jim said, uh that we that may be better uses of better uses of the property, you know, um so So, again, I'm hoping I don't know if that's convinced you or not. I hope it has, but um I think the teachers need it, the school the the town needs
033it, it saves money, and this reimbursement rate we're getting, I can't emphasize enough, it is the extra 15% we're getting now versus 2 years ago makes a huge difference. It saves a lot of money and it makes this something that is affordable, especially given that we're growing our grand list and we've got business coming to town and that shoulders some of the costs. It's not just on the residents, you know, all of it. Some of it gets shouldered, so. All right. Um please. How's that for a lot of a lot of answers? >> [laughter] >> Anybody? Kim Hanna, 3 Butler Lane. So, my question now, as we're talking about this committee concerning just the biz, how do you structure that? Because what I'm hearing, and I've heard it over the over the months that I've
034been coming to these and I really remember, you know, when Rick Shaw was sitting here and he was saying that we're a town we're a mu- municipality, we're not a realtor, we're not a management company. So, as you look at the uses of Brownstone, as you form that committee, will they look at all our municipal space that we have to pay for and maintain? Because you're talking about moving some of the stuff out of Buck Foreman building. You know, the police department needs more space. Would they look at the option of everything moving to Brownstone and Buck Foreman being the sellable or the for a different use. I mean, are is this committee going to be structured so tightly that they can't look at the big picture? Because it seems to me what I'm hearing
035from you guys, especially tonight, is it's a big picture thing. You know, there's we have a lot of municipal space and we have a small pool of money to maintain it and a small pool of people to a bigger pool of people to use it, but my recollection is that the biz is 65,000 square feet, something like that. It's a big space. It's a big space. So, if we can you if we're only we need to expand the police department and the food bank and they take up 10,000 of that 65,000 square feet. And Oak Hill takes up 5,000 of that 65,000 square feet. That still leaves us with 50,000 square feet. So, what what's the best use of that 50,000 you know, I I I'm just worried that if you make if you structure
036the committee too their charge too small, we're not going to get the big picture of all our buildings. You know, you've got you know, we Buck Foreman, Central School, and biz, those are going to be three municipal buildings non-school related that we're going to be responsible for. So, maybe we need to look at all of them. So, they all have history. They all have history. is going to have their favorite. Yep. >> It's it's a difficult question. >> It's a very difficult question and there's a there's a commercial use for these buildings, too. You see it in other towns. I mean, you look at the armory in Middletown, that was horrible and look at what they've done with it and made it a much better space. So, I'm just worried that we don't we don't
037I don't want it to be a narrow committee that can't look at our overall needs for the whole town. So, I think I have an answer for you. I think, and please correct me, board, if if if this is any different than you think, but I think we'll approach that as the same with the same vigor that we did with the whole school reevaluation. But, we looked at all the schools. We wanted a comprehensive plan because it had to fit into what we're doing. We're doing a plan of conservation and development right now. We're looking at how the downtown's going to be. I think we're looking at holistically and I envision this committee that we form to be very much involved in the whole downtown area. How does it affect the buildings? If we do
038pull the police and and food bank and um youth services, we pull them out, what do we do with the other buildings? What else can we do there? How do we make our Main Street uh one of those places that people want to travel from all over the state to come visit, you know, and when we develop our our our river our river access projects and and our riverfront. So, all those things have to be looked at, so it has to be with an eye toward how it fits into the whole picture. It can't be just narrow. What do we do with Center School? What do we do with just this building? So, so that that's what I'm pulling for and as long as people will vote me in, that's what my charge will be
039and whatever we have at this team uh here, I think that's that's a charge that we will be doing. I think everyone would agree with that. Mhm. Right, so So, yeah, but but but very good point, though. Yes, I'm just you know >> And it's and it's huge, so we could do so much with it, so. That's what I think is good. And I can tell you it's I mean, I'm glad the Central School has become the town hall and it was fixed. It was terrible, the condition it was left it left in for so long. But, working so long in town and people coming running into the bank and looking for the town hall because it wasn't on Main Street and explaining to them that you just have to go up and around the
040corner and it's right there. So, if we if we're right-sizing the schools, we should right-size everything. Yeah. You know. Yeah, well put. >> [clears throat] >> Charles, kudos to you and uh for putting that little video together. You know, that that was very well done. Yeah. Right. Any more public comment or questions in the vast audience we have here? We're they covered? Okay. >> [laughter] >> You preach it to the choir. A little bit. There you go. All right, fantastic. All right. Anything online at all? Yeah, you're here. Take a walk in a while. That's what we were thinking. Stephanie Tate Stephanie Tetreault, Great Hill Road. As a CPA and a director of finance, I respect, appreciate, and understand the importance of having and following a budget. Fiscal responsibility is a necessity for all. This
041is why I believe now is the time to vote in favor of the proposed school renovations. Safe and educationally appropriate schools add value to all of our homes in town. Research from the National Bureau of Economic Research found that every dollar a community spends on public schools increased home values by $20. Families with children actively seek out top-performing districts and compete for limited inventory. Strong schools signal broader community investment, better infrastructure, engaged neighbors, and stable property values. Buyers without children recognize that a home in a desirable school district will be easier to sell later. Source: opendoor.com. Another study that I read, we will find that a 1% increase in school spending increase house prices by 0.95%. The elasticity of the house prices with respect to per pupil school spending gives us a national measure of
042how much households value spending on schools. For comparison, another study in 2015 found that a 1% increase in school spending increases the adult wages of students by 0.7 to 0.8%. Taken together, these findings are consistent with the notion that households value that causal impacts of greater school funding on the lifetime outcomes of their children and are willing to pay higher prices for homes that provide access to better funded schools. Source, Patrick Bayer, Harvard. The committee that was recently wrapped up their work worked very hard and examined several options and made the determination based on a multitude of factors that the plan they have put forward is the most viable for the long-term needs of Portland. These factors included the space available at the middle school high school complex to move our sixth graders up there.
043The the guaranteed at the moment reimbursement rates from the state that are higher than they have ever been historically with no guarantee that they will continue to be available in the future. Feedback from the previous referendum and input from townspeople. Construction and repairs and maintenance costs will only continue to rise. If we do not capitalize on this opportunity now, we will be ignoring our fiscal responsibilities. So, I would urge everyone to please take these factors into consideration and vote yes on May 11th. Thank you. Thank you. Mike, do we still have the attorney? We do. We do. Would we want to maybe ask him a question a question about the question to explain how the question works? So, I think for the special meeting, I think that might be more appropriate. >> Okay. But, what
044we because maybe we can ask him when would be appropriate now or later. So. Mr. Ritter, you heard the question? Uh do you mind repeating it? Yeah, uh I was my question was if you would be able to for the folks listening here or home to explain the question. Um you know, how it's worded and I know there may be I believe in the past with the past referendum there was there might have been some confusion, people didn't understand the question. I'm just wondering if you can enlighten us a little bit on how the question is worded and why it's worded the way it is. Sure. Um so, Connecticut General Statutes dictate a couple of things. First, that the first word is shall and it's got to be a yes or no question. So, sometimes
045people will want contingency type questions, multiple choice type questions. Unfortunately, state law doesn't allow that. So, that's why you see shall to start it, you see a question and you see yes or no. So, that that limits you off the bat to to sort of narrows it down to what you can ask voters. There's no if this happens, this happens or doesn't happen. You have to be very clear what you're asking. I think what confuses most people um and again, we represent about 35 municipalities and we draft questions and they're all the same for all municipalities is there's two parts to a bonding resolution. There's the appropriation and then what you're authorizing uh in terms of total bonding. And those numbers don't always match up. Sometimes they do. In this case, they're very different. All
046right, you're appropriating over a hundred million dollars for the project. It's not what the town is spending, but when you get a grant from the state or federal government, you still have to appropriate the money. So, you're getting authorization from the voters of the town to appropriate the entire cost of the project. That includes state dollars. Then you have the bonding part, which is much less, right? That's going to be under 60 million dollars. And that is how much you need to borrow on behalf of the town. Again, the delta between that and the state grant. But, it confuses people. Um some towns match the numbers up. Um there are cash flow considerations you have to think about. Uh people have talked about what happened a couple years ago. I don't pick the numbers, right?
047The numbers are picked ultimately by the the town. There was concern about cash flow and that's why the numbers more closely mirrored each other back then. Um in this case, the reimbursement schedule, I think it made it a little easier to have to show the real delta between the state grants and what the town will have to borrow. Thank you. Mhm. Thank you, Matt. We appreciate that. May I ask him? Oh, sure. Oh, absolutely. So, the in the in the in the wording it says no in the amount not to exceed 58 million dollars. Why is that number different than the 419 41.9 million dollars that we're saying is the the real cost to our taxpayers? Can you just kind of explain the difference because people are going to see the 58 and it's kind
048of very different than the 41.9 that we've been communicating. Uh I I know the answer to it, but people need to hear it from the expert. Yeah, and it's it's the reality of it. When you get state reimbursement from the state when you get reimbursed from the state of Connecticut, they hold back what's called a retainage amount subject to the final audit. So, you don't get a hundred percent in the normal schedule of things. The state audits can be very backlogged and take years. Three, four, the max is five years. So, what's going to happen here is all of your state grants are not going to come in when the project is finished. You're going to be owed money by the state of Connecticut potentially for multiple years. So, the question is how do you
049float the money, the delta between what the total how much you can, you know, how much the state is giving you and what you have to spend. Um some of my municipal clients have the financial wherewithal to just front the cash. On you know, undesignated reserve fund, budget reserve fund, fund balance. Also, less costly projects, right? This is a pretty expensive you know, this is a large project with a pretty big state reimbursement. So, what they'll do is they'll front the cash and they'll wait for the reimbursement. In this case, the town does not have that ability. The town does not have the ability to float the money in cash and wait for the reimbursement from the state. So, what's going to have to happen is that delta between 42 and 58 is over the
050years the town's going to have to issue short-term temporary notes while it waits for the reimbursement. So, you're really issuing a way to think about it is you're issuing 42 million dollars of long-term bonds, right? 20 25-year bonds. That's what you normally think about when you think about a school project. The other 15 million approximately is short-term notes just waiting for the state to reimburse you. Every single town, every regional school district has to wait for reimbursement. Portland's not being picked on. Yours is not taking longer than somebody else's. It's a question of how do you front it. So, unfortunately, um you're going to have to float those short-term notes. Here's the good news. It will cost interest, but there's no principal payments on those notes. So, you'll just keep rolling those notes over year
051after year until you get fully reimbursed. If you had the cash to pay for it and float it, you could reimburse yourself at the end of the day. But, that's 16 million dollars. That's a lot of money to float and you are going to borrow. To be very clear, that full number most likely based on the projections. But, 16 or 15 million of it is going to be short-term versus a long-term bond. No. Yeah, basically it's a uh we're we're borrowing we're borrowing on the IOU from the state of Connecticut. Yeah, it's essentially a grant anticipation note, which is contemplated in the statutes. I have lots of clients right now building renovating bridges, okay? The state says you got to pay for the bridge and then we'll reimburse you. So, what do they do? They
052issue notes. They go to town meeting, they get approval for 4 million dollars of notes. It's not a bond. It's not a 20-year bond. When the state reimburses them for the bridge, they'll take the note out. So, this is not unusual. It's not uncommon. But, yeah, the number does look different than the state reimbursement. I understand that. Thank you. And the only thing I'll add to that also is when we did the numbers, when we had our our gentleman that put together all the numbers and what the cost would be, they factored that in. They factored in the interest rate during that short-term time. So, when we talk about 41.9 million, that should be the net money. And when we talk about the mill rate impact for the first 10 years, I think it 0.62
053was the average, that reflects not only what the interest rates would be, but but how much it cost. So, we factored that costing and it's it's not something that's an extra cost on here. So. Right. Yeah, it was it was a special column and it I think it had I'm looking at Laurel here. It had it had like five or six years where it had the interest on that 15 million or something. It was it was in there. So, that 42 is out the door. Yeah. Excellent. Any other questions? Yeah, but did we already move into the next meeting? No, we haven't. We're going to end this one right here. Yeah, but but we're discussing. No, I I understand. I understand. It came up. It was asked by the by the committee itself. All right.
054If there are no more comments in the audience or online, I'd like to close our meeting now at the hearing next 40. Someone make a motion. I'll make that motion. Someone second it. I'll second it. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Motion passes. We'll take a five-minute break.