Board of Selectmen Budget Workshop 3/25/26

001All right. Good evening everyone. It's 7:00 and I'd like to call our meeting to order for our our second budget budget workshop. Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance if you can. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. You may be seated. All right. So, we are on the second of our two board meetings on this. Kind of a quick summary of yesterday. I think we did a good job looking at most of the budgets that we had here and that there were a number of good questions, but a couple thoughts came to mind as I was reviewing before we started tonight. We were looking at every budget for any kind

002of extra in there and I think we had a real challenge with that. We end up looking at smaller numbers in budgets that still needed to be looked at, but there were there were not any big hidden or we could take this out easily. I think that's a testament to the folks that put the budget together and presented it because I think they did as we had asked them to, you know, keep the essentials in there, but we need to get rid of as much fluff, if not all the fluff that we can. So, I appreciate that and I know the fact that it's hard for us up here to find additional dollars and I think it's a good sign. And I think it should be a good sign to the people watching at home

003that we are we are trying to be as good stewards of their money as possible. We are digging into every item, every possibility, considering combining services, considering adding, you know, folks that can maybe replace some of the contractors that we have. Other ways that we could find ways to make our town more efficient as we go forward. Again, everything about doing the jobs that we have to do as a town, the services that have to be provided, you're doing it as cost effectively as we can. So, that journey was good yesterday. I hope to continue that tonight. I think we have some some good news. I certainly feel much more optimistic today with a couple ideas that I think will make this a little bit a little quicker to get to the finish line of

004this. So, with that being said, I'd like to turn over to Jim for a couple minutes on one of the ideas that I think most of our selectmen know some of the details, but I want I wanted to share one way that we're going to be able to help with this budget. Yeah, one of obviously looking at the budget and saying a lot of it how it's driven, it was really how can we try and still meet a lot of the needs we got for the community in a way that's more efficient for our taxpayers and had a conversation last night with with our finance director, with with Mr. Robinson, who was very helpful and and helped us take a look at some things today to confirm some numbers. And the idea here is to

005use some of the surplus from our previous budget previous budget to fund some of our current capital needs. It's something we've done in the past, um, but this would allow us to reduce the cost for this year by using money that have already been collected from the taxpayers. So, there's no need to collect those money again. Specifically, there's four items in the capital budget that we would look to actually do a supplemental allocation for Those four items are the fire department ATV replacement, which is a $60,000 item, the ground maintenance infield groomer, that is a $55,000 item, the police department the new SUV, that is a $64,250 item, and the the director's um department of public works director replacement vehicle, which is a $50,000 item. The total of that would reduce our current capital by

006$229,250. And what that does, that actually has the impact on the budget overall, it would reduce the spending increase the expenditure increase this year from 4.88 down to 4.3%. And it would reduce the mill rate increase from 1.89 to 1.62, which reduces the mill rate percentage increase from 5.36 to 4.60 in a way that still allows us to meet all of those needs because they are all priority needs. Very good. Want to thank you, Jim, and again, Tom for for coming up with that. It's It's and we just [clears throat] we just finalized the numbers for what we had from the budget last year, what we have for surplus. And I think it's it's a good way to spend that, but but here's the next challenge for for everyone up here. I don't think 1.

007I don't think 1.62 is enough. I think we need to find additional spending. We are right now at a 4.3% increase in spending from last year. The year before last year's budget, the approved budget was a 4.29%. So, we are just at about the same spending and to be real frank, given the cost of insurance in here, which we had a long discussion about yesterday and some of the headwinds with oil prices that are happening now that may affect us for months and months, you know, I would be normally in any other year happier about that 4.3 number, but I think we need to dig deeper and I think we need to knock that down as low as we can. So, so I guess my challenge tonight is I'd like to see if we can

008Break four? If we can, that would be great. I'd love to get below below 4%. That would be the number and if we could do that for spend, we could do that, we're dropping our mill rate closer to the 1.55, which I think and again, I don't see a lot of extra spending in any of these budgets. I wish I did, but I don't and again, that's because we run on a tight budget and every person makes a difference and we, you know, we we don't have any extra in there. With that being said, I guess I'd like to open up. Well, no, I should take a step back. We had ended on page 101 yesterday. Please. Yep. Go to 107. Yeah. Transfer out pap non-recurring town, that one. Yeah, I think we take the

009number that we took out of So, we'd have to reduce that by the 229250. Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> Thank you, Tom. So, if it's the board's will, I'd like to continue on with reviewing the budget one more time. We're at page 101 before we stopped last night. We have some consensus on that? Sure. Okay. There we are. All right, let's do that. Starting off. Very good. Not bad, huh? Been a pretty quality 8 minutes so far. All right. So, so Tom, Mr. Robinson. On on this budget right now, I'm not sure if we need him up here yet or not, but these numbers right here reflect to me, you look at item 21001, the medical insurance, that's a significant jump here that we talked about. It's a 12% increase over last year, 12.1, 1.7

010million. That stands out. The pension contributions also are significant in terms of the the dollars on there, but the increase in the medical insurance, I think it shows mostly here. And that's and that's part of the headwinds that we're facing, so that's 200 It's almost 200,000 right there, so. Um, any questions on this page? Either Tom or myself. Both sides? Take that as a no. Next page, 102, 103, risk management. Burma, they've done great for us. We even got a check from them for a safety award that we got, so I'm good with this. They continue to watch us and protect us when we have any issues, so. Next page, 104, 105, debt service. I know Tom provided everyone with some of the details when the debt service runs out for various things. Is everyone

011satisfied with the answer they've gotten or any questions on that? I guess you said, but we we know, Tom, that that's, you know, and you put that note and I totally understand the $116,000 is bonding cost for the referendum, but we know that that's what the cost will be. There's no play in that. Oh. We had a budgeted out of $15,000 of the possible bond premium, so you have the expenditure and that's the number that's the number that was given to us by the financial advisor and bond counsel. So, you want to leave that number as your issuance cost. Okay. And then there's an offsetting revenue item. So, that's just Just take care of that. Yeah, so we put it in there so that when you if if hopefully we get a premium on the

012bond that you have the ability then to charge the the expenditures for the actual issuance cost to the general fund. Take the money into the general fund and then possibly use further premium on the you know payment down of your debts or use of your debts. So, it's just that's where they you know I guide us to put that money. So, you put it in there and that's what we you know we did back in '18 and then you know it works positively for us. Tom, if you can say up there just real quick cuz we're going right to the next page. But everyone's good with that. So, if one just looking at Tom's number here just what one of the things that stands out is the very last item. I mean that clearly says

013uh 30-year bonding on buildings is probably a bad idea, right? The sewer uh Sewer plant. The sewer plant, right? It was on a 30-year bond. Here it is where we need major work on it if that's what I think it is and we're still paying off the other >> yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know either. It's a sewer assessment. No, that was a great you know that was a it was a fine bond. It was that's a sewer assessment. So, that was a build out of the sewer plant. Yeah. That was a build out of like a sewer the sewer Yeah, but he's saying it's it's a bad idea having a 30-year bond. So, our bond is the point is we should do shorter bonds than 30 years if we

014Um depending on the type of item that is like on a sewer assessment, if you're like laying a sewer line, then you could go out to 30 years because the intent is those should last you 50 to 100. So, but if you are like doing a bond like for a plant um yeah, you'd love to do like a 20-year or 25-year. You know, that would be the goal. That's you know sorry, I misunderstood That's okay. And which is same thing what's happening with the schools, right? Yeah, you'd like to do that. They last 25 years. 25-year area if you can 20 or 30, but it's very expensive. No, we just paid off the high school and middle school for after 20 years. And they have $18 million in renovation. So, those are all in Any

015other questions on what what we've got one more page for you. Sorry, Tom. So, now it's on page 106 107. The interfund transfers and transfers out. On that page, I know we have two members on the board that uh if you can maybe walk through what these numbers mean for some of the newer members, that would be great. This is for page 106 107 interfund transfers out. My only issue on this page, I don't think we ever put enough into the open space fund. Yeah. It's been 50,000 a year and it's not getting any better. No. If we ever have to do something to acquire land Right. whether [clears throat] it's more land at the riverfront or more land for the airline trail, we're not going to have much money to do with. That's a

016great point. Yeah. So, so let's make it a point to see if if as a board we want to increase that to whatever 100,000 whatever the number is. We always we always put the 50,000 in there. It's a you know that is a a good constant thing that we do put in there. I believe that's one of the things that we have to that we have to try to do. Um and uh you know and we and we do that. So, it does keep growing. I mean I think that's a good thing. Um anytime anything you can obviously build more capital in is always good. Um it's going to be one place or the other. You're going to either put it in here or you're going to put it in your capital. Um so uh

017uh you know it's it it'd be [clears throat] great to do that and all hopefully in in the future there's some additional you know revenues that that would that'll help or we can have a budget where it's you know going to help us through. Um Yeah, so these are just the transfers to the other funds. Um the other things that are in here um we do put in we've been putting in money aside for a potential match for the airline trail. Uh that's a $50,000 number that we have in there. We have the 58,750 that we transfer to the water department for the fire hydrant upkeep. That's part of the town's contribution to the water fund. Um and then the uh uh the $2,000 for the solidarity. That's all in the transfer to others line

0189006. Animal control is the transfer in for the animal control fund that we've gone over. The tree transfer use service building maintenance is a fund fund 11 that we get between the town and the board each of us town and the board get $41,000. Try to make um any repairs that are not within capital or that are excessive in their operations. Resource recovery is the transfer to the resource recovery fund to um help >> [clears throat] >> subsidize that operations. We went over all the transfer to park and rec is for the park and rec. As Bobby stated, the transfer to open space is the amount that we're required to transfer to open space. Um which which we which we we've not. And then the capital non-recurring to the town uh that's the number that

019we just adjusted and then the capital non-recurring to the board is the number for the capital non-recurring to the board. Okay. Well, thank you again, Tom. We'll try not to call you up too much. Stop believing that. Um next page 108 109. There's typically a a contingency put in. Uh the number's been traditionally $100,000. Any questions on this? This is another thing we talked about that this should be going up cuz the bigger our budget gets, the bigger So, the percentage of the and emergencies can be. So, that 100,000 is just something that we're putting in the budget, whereas the transfer out that we saw on the previous page for open spaces, that was via ordinance, right? Mhm. We do this this is to cover shortages. Right. Okay. For emergency funding. >> back kind of

020a backup fund. Got it. So, so you got $100,000 to cover a $40 million budget. Right. Tom, has has that 100,000 been typical throughout the years? You've been doing this for a long time. How did that how did that number come up? That might be something good for the newer members as well. Yeah, I mean Bobby made a great point during the budget discussions that there's a possibility that that could go up. I mean we all agreed that that wasn't wasn't the year to go up in that. But I mean it's yeah, I mean it could go up. It's just it's worked well for us in the past. This year obviously it's been a challenge with things like the snow removal and now some of this some of these oil come issues and things like

021that, but um yeah, I mean it would be you know it's something that in the future I'll try to look at is to try to you know maybe try to bump it up a little bit. That'll be good. Um just didn't you know try to do that this year for y'all because it was you know I knew you had a mill rate effect that was challenging. So, that was why we you know but I mean I did hear on that was a good suggestion. So, on that issue, does this board want to consider bumping it up on this budget or should we consider on the next budget? Let's talk about it now. What what say you, Bobby? You kind of put the recommendation out. >> I I think we should do something to it. Okay.

022Cuz we it it's we never know what's going to happen. Like Tom said, this this year was horrible for overages and we don't know how the year is going to end >> [clears throat] >> with fuel costs. I mean I don't I don't think putting that 110 is you know horrible. It's only a 10% increase. Right. That hasn't been increased in years. So, I have a suggestion. Um let's mark this as something we'll we'll circle back to at the end of this. I know we're still trying to cut and find a way, but uh let's see what we get to. >> [clears throat] >> Um and then let's let's circle back to make a decision on it. The decision is either we do something whatever that is or we push it to next year and

023and hope for the best depending on what the number looks like. So, all right. Next page. Now we get to talk about some of the other special revenue funds. Mhm. So, page 112 113. Sewer. What's the theme of the transfer line? Right. Okay. Got it. Got it. So, Yeah. I I guess in general on these um I mean the sewer and the water are self-sufficient in terms of what they make. Um does anyone have any questions in these items? Let me just throw it back to everyone here. I've made notes in here. I I have very few notes in here that show there's an issue with with all the numbers. A couple stand out. For example, on page um electricity down at the sewer plant. Um be just just because it's very it's very um

024current intensive. It takes a lot of electricity to to do the stuff and that's very typical of of most sewer plants. It it's one of the highest use of electricity in most municipalities. So, but prices are going up and that's just a real number, and it may even go up even higher with everything going on in the world. But, but things like that are the only ones that won't be stood up. Everything else is not flagged down. I know um I Jason Mercier, I know we've considered also updating some of the fees on to uh to bring them either up to standards and adjust some of them as well. That may reflect in that may reflect in in revenue uh over the next year. I don't know what the status of that is. I know

025there's a procedure that has to go through on that. But, but that still is small dollars compared to uh the things that are in here right now. So, I don't see much in there. Does anybody else? Yeah, and I think that's I think what is it Mike? We're looking at um Are we looking on the 8th? When When are we actually going to get the um the audit report? Cuz that'll show us uh last year's results finalized. We're talking about >> funds. Yeah, the the the the last year's budget. Is that that presentation's coming up in April, right? >> It should be up It Thomas, that's scheduled for the 8th? Oh, yeah. No, no, I'm just >> So. No, we're good. Yeah. And so, 8th we'll get we'll get the official presentation, so. Um Anyways,

026that's all I have in these. If anyone has any other comments, I don't see anything there that stands out. On page 125, one small note, we uh with Courtney having gone on leave and and [clears throat] and leaving the job behind to focus on herself. Uh I wish her and family the best. Um we are in the process of or looking for someone to fill that position. It's unfilled right now. It's being um handled by uh by uh Meg Scata uh in the interim just to keep us going. I'm also covering I'm covering for that as well. But, uh we are uh we're looking to fill that position uh and get So, that's really the only gap in here that we don't have all solid numbers on. Right. But, so was the regular payroll that

027was proposed based on the employee that was there getting a raise versus hiring a new person that might be a different level? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. There there there may be >> be. It will be. And depending on the qualifications of the person, yes. Um this this is a safe number. Uh should it be someone that has experience, again, we haven't closed it yet. But, if we get someone in that uh is as good as her or has as many years experience, it may be that. It may be less than if someone younger that also can do the job quite well. So, it depends on who we hire. But, that's probably a safe number. It I I think that's your question. Could we potentially make that a uh half-time position? So, I've had a

028couple I've had discussions with a couple people. Are there things that that position could pass away to Parks and Rec? Could it be Could it some of it be split up? And there was a possibility, so that is being looked at. Um we're still interviewing for the position as it is right now just cuz we want to see who's available, what's available, how to do that. But, there are a number of jobs there, some of which are shared with um other divisions there. Um so, there there's there's more fluidity in this particular department than I think any other place that we have. So, I will keep everyone kind of posted on that. Well, I think I said I mean, these are the kind of questions that we got to start asking. Just like that, Rico.

029After Yeah. 100%. So, and and that and that is the plan. Um and and so, that's where I'm at with that. So, that's the only unknown. So, the thing with the you know, with with that, just as you know, like there is there are grants that are, you know, uh based off of the the based off the salary and the component. So, there are associated grants with that funding. So, um that's where the you know, some of that revenue comes from. So, you want to have that You just got to make sure that we you know, we'll we'll >> [snorts] >> as we move forward to make sure that they comply with their the grant requirements um of the people that are there running the the program. So, that's just important. So, there's a you

030know, it's like a percentage allocation of the person's salary. So, I mean, it's possible that you may be able to lower the hours. It may not be to like a part-time position, but it may be a you know, some other variation thereof. But, just know there are grant, you know, requirements that they have to maintain. Um and that's how you get your funding from uh from uh I want to say it's the DCF. Yeah. And and it's also one of those positions too. We talked about social services yesterday and the fact that for 15, 18 years we haven't had an official social services uh department. And it's one of those forward-facing uh departments of one that does a great deal in town um that combines with the library and with and with the senior center

031and others to uh to really provide a lot of direct contact with our residents in different in you know, versions of need. So, uh it is a it is an important position. It's a visible position, and it has a a big impact. Uh certainly a a significant impact per dollar that we spend on it, so. Uh it's an important position. So, I will absolutely keep everyone posted on that. And it's a perfect position as we need I suggest to what can we do to re-evaluate, right? What can we do to make it better, so. And I like that about the last two days here, so. All right. Um Looking through the rest of these other budgets, I don't see much that again was flagged to me. Even the overtimes at some of these that I

032post when I usually tag as you know, is there places we can reduce overtime by increasing efficiency? And even the overtime that's on here generally um has a specific purpose for being in it based on past history and based on issues um that each department kind of has. So, um unless anyone sees anything else, I'm pretty good with that particular page. >> Well, I mean, could Could they just tell us what are the over uh time needs like in resource recovery? Like why are Let's In fact, let's start with Do we have >> Just what are the what they are? I hear you, but Let's >> I think that's Absolutely. >> why they always have to have overtime. Jason Marocco, public works director. Uh so, for resource recovery, the the overtime is uh you know,

033sometimes we come in uh to clear snow so that the transfer station can be open. Um you know, depending on when the snow falls, if it's on a Sunday or a a Monday, uh you know, we might come in on the the gentleman might come in on Monday, uh clean it up cuz the transfer station's not open on Monday so that we can open on Tuesday. Um Uh some of the overtime also includes when one of those gentlemen are uh on vacation on a Saturday, and we have um another one of our uh staff filling in for them because they've already worked their Monday through Friday shift. Uh Saturday's overtime for them. Um so, that covers that overtime cost. The one gentleman who does plow have a plow route for highway, that does not get

034taken out of this overtime. It comes out of highway snow uh overtime. >> [clears throat] >> So, it's only only snow clearing at the transfer station and only overtime for an employee covering for a transfer station employee who might have the day off. Is it fair to say and and it's and I'm and I'm it's certainly a um a a request I think all of us have. Obviously, we want to minimize overtime where we can. Um are there good Are there good um systems in place to manage and control the overtime that you have in your departments? Do you feel comfortable with what you have? >> Yeah, are you talking about at the transfer station or just Yeah, I mean, we we try I think I asked that a lot. Yes, we we try to

035uh handle overtime as best as we can. Uh you know, snow's totally different animal. Transfer station's a little bit harder uh because it is going to be an overtime uh you know, expenditure for somebody who's working Saturday who already worked during the week. Uh But, what we try to do our best One one of the things that we didn't do because of overtime this year was clean Main Street with the snow. It just We could It's too It's too hard to do it during the day with traffic, and we just felt that uh we didn't want to overextend the overtime already that we had for snow. So, we decided not to clean Main Street. I know some people were very vocal uh about that, but hopefully in uh you know, next year it'll be in

036a better situation where we could do that. Um but, it just didn't work out this year. So, yes, I do most of the overtime. When I say most, it's because if there's an emergency and somebody has to and gets called in, uh I don't necessarily say yes or no to that. It's It's we get called in, we have to come in. But, if it's some type of scheduled overtime, the supervisor that runs that division normally talks to me about that beforehand. And it's either a yes or no, or do we really need to do it, or can we do it another way? Well, and when there's a line break at different times. >> Correct. All that. Of course. So. The joys of having an older system, right? Now, when the transfer station goes to summer

037hours, is that still being built for uh 40 hours? Yes. Okay. Their hours are just moved during the summer. >> the hours just move. They still have to work 40 hours. Okay. Thank you, Jason. Appreciate that. Our recovery our recovery uh station that it it is the most friendly customer friendly >> They're good. service. It's unbelievable. >> [clears throat] >> I actually enjoy calling there. A lot of people do. It's a cool place to hang out in, I guess. Um Um Andy, can I can I ask you real quickly, too? Same thing that we asked Jason um on your overtime uh as well. Just just to try to how you use that. And I know you you just yourself as well, so. Sure. Uh so, for Parks and Rec, the overtime line item that you

038see there primarily is uh to pay the custodians of the schools when we have programs in um So, that that's my answer uh for that. Um I don't qualify for overtime so it's not coming out of you know, it's not coming to me or anything like that. It's whenever we have programs in the schools, we pay the custodial overtime out of that line item. Questions for Andrew? But it's the custodians that normally serve the Board of Education. They just do this for the summer program. So basketball, summer, whenever that's that's after hours. If Bob always so helpful with scheduling and things like that. But >> also get overtime for like other reasons, too, right? The those It's the same people. Yeah. But they for different functions of all the schools. Yeah, if if it was

039a Board of Ed function, the Board of Ed would cover their overtime. But you know, it just depends which bucket it comes out of or why they're based on the reason they work there. Thank you. >> It gets confusing cuz there's a lot of silos around like especially around overtime. It's like with the snow. So the resource snow people do the snow. Then the building main like department, they do their snow. And then the other ones do their snow. I get that we have to do it on overtime, but it's like siloed. So it's just understanding how it all fits to all the different budgets. Absolutely. Sharing people for different departments and all that. Yeah. Right. Um and if you if you're looking through these budgets, also look look on page 125 under medical insurance.

040It went from 37 to 43 on item number 21001. And then you look at page and under medical insurance, it went from 34 to 40. Right. >> 19.1. So just it's it's part of the last night's discussion. If you add stuff again, it's all reflected in it. >> It's all reflected in it, but those are the ones that stand out. Exactly. So it's kind of baked into the whole thing. So Um high level was explained to us. Absolutely. So Um so that's all I have here. If we we're ready to go, let's go to capital improvements 135. Just kind of review what we were talking about for uh what Jim and Tom went through. [clears throat] So on this page, these are the capital improvements that we have scheduled. We do a five year so

041we have this one that we're going to do the coming year and we have four other years that are kind of a wish list of things that we really want to get. There's always a debate and discussion about it. We have a committee that provides us and presents to us their suggestions. We muscle through and we end up with this list. So out of here again, the list of ones that we are going to be um moving out of here the budget and using the surplus from last year to purchase. Jim, you want to cover that real quickly one more time just to make sure people are watching. For sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. The So we're moving from this budget, right? And covering is still meeting the need, but covering it um with the surplus from

042you know, last year's budget. Um would be the ATV replacement. The infield groomer. The uh new police vehicle. Which I'm glad to see we're staying up on that. Well, we don't want to fall behind and have to do too many of those in one shot. And obviously the uh DPW director's vehicle. Um that total of that reduces um this year's capital budget by 20 229 mil thousand $250, right? 229,000. Right? 250 um that we do have enough of a surplus from last year to cover that. So without getting I know it hasn't all been certified yet. Uh we would just need to make sure we do the supplemental to attach to uh to fund that. Yes. Um later this year. Great. Any questions? books Yeah. Um vision sign off for the vision people. But it

043looks like they give us 4,899 more. So I would like to add uh like to add uh the uh parking lot racks. Uh a lot of money here about 70,000. That would make that 34,079. We like this this current year we want money for. We put it in for the entry of all the vision. I'll be in this time. Okay. So that that instead of 30,000 34,789. Okay. That is all. Okay. parking lot books Okay. Thank you, Tommy. So on page 136 um I don't know cuz we discussed we really do need to also firm up our long-term plans for our capital improvements. We talked about that over the years. Was that a bit on the board for a while? Um I think once we get past this budget season, um I think we need

044to make sure that we are working on that all throughout the year. We have a lot of needs and if you look at year 27 28, it's 25 million on the wish list total. It goes to 17 the next year. I mean there's a lot of dollars on here. Um and I'm sure a lot of them are ones that are are very important. So we need to we need to be mindful of that and start working on that amongst ourselves as well. So long long-term just The only thing that's hopeful on here is that the referendum passes, you can take all the schools off here. 100%. That was kind of where I was going with that. So Very good. Um and and if you're watching at home, most of this um you know, is is

045school renovations, fixing those up. They're they're expensive schools to keep and maintain properly. Um so it does it makes a big difference on that. So And and that's and that's a good point. So we we were talking about this budget and yet we have the shadow of the of the referendum and the school project we're talking about. They are distinct separate things, but they're very connected in terms of the buildings that we'd have to fix up and the cost of the town and all that kind of stuff. And they really are very integrated in terms of affordability. So Um it it is it is in the back of our minds as we're going through this as well. That uh that will affect what these numbers are. So Um All right. Um I'm set with that.

046The rest of this is capital improvements that we I just kind of go through the details. So we've effectively gone through this entire budget right now. And it's time to see if we can kind of open it up and see what we can do in other areas. I know I talked to many of the department heads and asked them to look at their budgets, but I see that we have Dr. Britain here uh and I think um we let's see if we can um find some additional dollars. I know we're trying to get under 4%. Um if that's that's our goal that we're shooting for. Um we're we're not there yet. I'd like to continue with work. Oh, and and one other thing too, we we pulled a couple dollars out of some different budgets

047last night. I know I see Richard I see Rich here. Uh when he was gone, we took $600 away from him. Um it's I think it might have been 600, but either way it was money that he put in there. Uh now I it's the fact that we took $600 out tells you we're looking for every dollar, but um I I took the benefit of of suggesting we put that back in because um I found I I I've asked why that's in there and what it's for and it's for I think a very valuable service, but I don't I want to make sure I'm using that point that we're not cutting things that are needed or specifically in there. And I think it's a small amount, but it it it's something that Um I mean

048we use it for for a couple of bills. Like gives you a lot. And um make sure it was a re draft coming out of prior years. Yeah, pretty pretty good we answer really good. I know I know one is taking money for the budget line. From a guy from a guy who said on that committee, there's a lot of hours and a lot of work comes. Absolutely. So I didn't really mean it. I'm sorry. Yeah, you know, when when I was taking out for a couple years, pulled that last year for a couple of reasons. So I mean that's the matter of You know, I told him. You know, what we got to do in life. Yeah. We don't have to pay somebody to pay attention. I understand. Well, that's what you That's what

049you get for not being here. >> [laughter] >> So Anyways, but that's but that's the things like that I think we need to just be careful about. Uh with that in mind, any questions at all? Anything that anyone has in their mind before we go to the next step here? Okay. What's that? I I I would like to I would I'm going to ask the board I'd like to add that $600 back in. What page was that? Uh the assessor's page is What is it? 33 33 Honestly, if if we could just keep the discussion to the hundreds of thousands, $600, I could care less. Thank you. Thank you very much. There we go. We're talking We're talking about it. Exactly. So all right. Dr. Britain. I can but please please Um uh Tom, you

050had mentioned we can get it under four or at the four. Uh it Correct me if I'm wrong, Tom, but if we can get this to 3.88 the mill rate turns into 4%. Which is I would I would expense, right? >> Yeah, I was going to say well I was going to say expense that I think to get our expense growth 4% would be a total of I think about $368,000 we'd have to trim overall. We've already made an adjustment of 229 and we had the 15. That's what I'm looking in there right now. I know a little bit more money came back in. Um I'm just doing my back of the napkin here, but it looks like about 141,000 142,000 is what we would still need to find in the budget to get to

051that point. Correct. And then the uh and kind of some of the math I was doing and I kind of talked to to Tom during the day a little bit. Just I sent him a an email, but to get to the 4% mill rate increase, it the the the spending would have to get to 3.88 not the four. But it's okay. It's a we're we're we're making progress. Yep. So, Dr. Britain, we're we're looking for every dollar we can here. Um I know that you guys have spent a lot of time putting your budget together. Um I don't think we're at the place that we need to be here. And I'm asking whatever you can do to help us get to that number. We need to work together on this, but we need to find

052some additional money cuz I don't think I don't feel comfortable going out of the one at the 1.62 right now. I think we need to be below 1.55 um in order to even get it out of here. Um I think people are paying attention to the dollars. We have a referendum. Um it sounds like a lot of money and I and we need to do everything we can to do that. I'm sure we'll all be good stewards of the money. We're watching every dollar. We're all aware, but we need we need your help to get us to that number. Yeah, so Jim, I saw you were doing the back of the napkin math and I was trying to do it in my head, too. So, I was trying to figure out the the the delta

053stuff in there, right? So, you were at What's the number? 160 you said that you need to further reduce to get to the the place you're comfortable? Is that 1 140 and change. Yeah, 140 and change. I've got like 14186. All right. What So, again, I'm just I'm breaking out my calculator. I'll spot you the 16 cents. All right, so one what you're at 140? 14186. Okay. And Tom, remind me what what percent of the budget the Board of Ed is 65%? What's what's our percent of Those buttons are hard to use, Mike. >> [laughter] >> Mike's going to town over there. It's about 63%. 62? Yeah, 62.7. Close enough. Yeah, it's 2/3. Round it up to the 80%. >> [laughter] >> 0.62, so that's 86,000 that if you distributed that cut fairly across all

054the departments that you'd be looking for from the board. Am I doing my math right? Am I following my logic? That's how the math goes, but you also have a a go get right you have a shortfall, I guess, from what you described before, right? And that was that uh that difference where you had 13% in the insurance and it was really like 16, right? So, I think you quoted That's correct. 140 or 158? I remember the number. 146,000. Yeah. So, really it's the 146,000 plus that you're Just just so you know what the what the real number is, yeah. Yeah, and then and I'm just trying to, you know, do some math here that that you know, if you're if you're looking for 140,000 after what what you've done and then if you were

055going to distribute that fairly across all of us in this room that you'd be looking for for me at I did 62%. That that 80 86,000, right? Jim, what's our original number before we did anything? Um we were at 380. point Uh what what am I what What was the total dollar amount? 380? Uh 368 before before we started. To get to 4% expenditure um would be I think 368 we'd have to come down. With 63% of that. You know. And um Oh, I we'll let Mike beat up on his keyboard over there. It'll be quicker than me using my abacus. So, what are we looking for? 63% of the total number of the 380. So, the the number on to get to the 3.99% we need 140,000 141,000. >> What is our total number

056before the town gave everything back? 380. That was the number you started with set up? 36 That was three 368 is what we needed to get to four before we >> Yeah. 368. Or 63% of it. 231. All right. I'm no seeing what the Board of Ed share would be. Yeah. So, I'm not sure to explain how you think that applies to this. I want to make sure I understand. Because if we're reducing the budget by $360,000 we've already given 229,250. Yeah, you used you used to get from fund balance essentially or leftover savings from last year. Right, the the first That's why I was confused. That's what That's what you're saying. So, if you're saying that if you didn't apply savings from last year that the share and you were just starting if you

057didn't have any savings, right? And you were still trying to get to that number. That Is that what you're saying? So, to get to the number that we're hoping to get to to get to the under four uh percent, which I think is is fair for the town. Um again, I I'm I'm looking at 141,000 for this exercise right now. And 62% 62% of that. 67% whatever number we think is fair um is what we're looking to do. Yeah, cuz that way it shoulders 2/3 1/3. Yeah, to get to that number. Um Who's second? I am. Tom, you want to you want to uh Yeah, so quick quick math. Board of Ed's got a uh based on what we're talking about, it it has a uh a $232,000 challenge. It's the the um the 63%

058of the 140 plus the 146 that was the shortfall from the insurance. You add those two numbers together, 146 plus 86 is 232. About. Right? So, explain the insurance. Well, was a the budget only included uh it was in there at Oh, right right right. It was at there at 13% not the 16.1. That was So, that whole math came out to a $146,000 shortfall or something like that, right? And Correct. Starting with the deficit, right? So, that was a So, that somehow has to make its way into the budget, right? We can't just leave it out there. And then um it then this other the 140 63% of that is 86,000. Got it. So, the 146 plus the 86 is 232. So, the challenge on the Board of Ed is 232. All right. But

059in terms of what we're looking for, yeah. I got Okay, thank thank you, Jim. I'm not saying how or you know, that that's different, but the math that's where the math goes. Yep. Mike, I was just trying to do it in my head. I was just trying to understand it. We were looking at the numbers and flowing through that, you know, it looks like a 4.2 you know, if you're if you needed like like a you know, a 50,000 if you took 50,000 you'd be at like a 4.2% number. Which seems like a pretty reasonable number. I I know you're using this magical four number, but I you know, I just want to let you know that if you did 50,000 you're at 4.21. So, that seems like it's a you know, number that maybe

060could work for I don't know for somehow I don't know. What what's the 4.2, Tom? 50,000. Yeah, it seems like if we're trying to get to a four that's it's that's a big delta where I mean if you if there's somehow somewhere there's a 50,000 which I don't have that solution, but I mean you're at 4.2. Yeah. One, you know, that's like you know, you're kind of like And getting there, you know what I mean? Yeah, in all fairness, right? That four number that we that I kind of sent the today, that was just me pushing the what what could be, right? Nobody here agreed to that. Well, 4.2%. Yeah, nobody here agreed to that. That was just me pushing the four, right? Well, I pushed it, too, in the beginning. Yeah, I mean it

061was you know, it was just I That's what this discussion is to see what's realistic. And and yeah, we'll get there. So, Dr. Britain, what what can Well, let me let me see if I can summarize what I think. Yeah, there you go. Currently, Bobby, if we were if we were looking at the type of cut from before you applied overhead savings after the audit, we'd be in really really tough shape. Um it adding the 86,000 to the 150 also rough shape. Tom's suggestion to get to the 4.2 with a $50,000 cut from the Board of Ed that would take us from the 150 deficit we're into 200, right? That's what That Now, I have to be honest. I'm I I got to be very careful here. I'm I'm I'm representing the Board of Education

062budget. I haven't had a chance to to brief with Laurel or talk about this with the Board of Education. But at 200, right? Let's just Let me just talk to you about that. Um my stress level about that 200 is slightly lowered based on some emerging information that I'd be happy to share with you and I I don't want to do be like a wheeler-dealer here, but I want you to know what what I would be hoping you'd be willing to work with me on if everything works out the way we're hoping it will work out. So this year there's a lot of momentum in Hartford for increasing what's called the base amount on the Equalized Cost Sharing Grant. That's the biggest grant that town of Portland gets to support education from Hartford. That number

063went up a little bit over the past couple years, but this year it's flat. You'll notice in our budget we have budgeted $4,997,000 in ECS revenue. This is revenue that comes to town that town applies to the the Board of Education, right? So I'm going to round up and say we get about $5 million from Hartford. Now we have some really smart people on the board including Laurel and Meg Scata who are very active in Cave and we've written letters. You've seen them. My lobbying group, Connecticut Association of Public Schools, we've been very active in reminding our friends in Hartford that you haven't raised the foundation amount that you give per student since 2013. Crazy, right? So all of the inflation has been shouldered by the town, right? And trust me, this is not unique

064to Portland. All of us have been screaming for years that this is supposed to be a shared responsibility. This year for the first time since 2013, we're seeing real momentum in Hartford. And I follow it very closely. There are two bills that are working their way through, one on the house side and one on the Senate side. The one on the house side would see an increase to the foundation amount of $1,000 per student. We have 2,000 students, or 1,200 students, excuse me. Do the math on that. It's not exact because it's a weighted formula and students who are needy, MLL students, you know, students on free and reduced price meals, other indicators of demographics get more than that. So the whole thing would calibrate. And that would be on the house side, it's a

065one $1,000 increase. On the Senate side, it's a $2,000 increase, right? Go Senate, right? That's But the good news here is that both the House and Senate are moving in that direction. And of course, while the governor's budget didn't propose that we do know that the House and Senate have veto proof majorities, right? So I'm very confident this year that something's going to move on the ECS grant and this would be towards fiscal year 2027, which is next year, right? So standing here in front of you tonight to have to cut an additional $200,000 out of next year's budget right now, to sit down with Laurel and Bob and my leadership team and do that, that would be very, very difficult for me to do, right? That could potentially be significantly offset if these bills

066pass, you know, that's potentially another $120,000 if the $1,000 per student passes. $240,000 if the $2,000. Are you Are you following me on that? Here's the problem. Tom and I talked about this today. The legislative session doesn't end until May 3rd, right? That's your ballots are printed and you've taken action and and sent this in front of the voters by then. >> [clears throat] >> What What that means though now, it would be great if they passed the law and we knew tomorrow when we could make the adjustment before it goes out, but there are I think two realities. Reality one is we're counting our chickens before they hatch, they don't pass this bill and I'm I'm having to make a $200,000 cut. I promise you that will be very difficult for me to do.

067Reality two is that we find out at the end of [clears throat] May that the state legislature has passed this bill, additional revenue is coming to town. What we need to do then will be a town meeting and a supplemental appropriation, right? Break out the wood box and additional revenue will flow to the town. I would very much be asking for a gentleman's agreement here that that that additional revenue that comes into the town, if that foundation amount on the ECS grant is is approved, would be recommitted back to the Board of Ed so that I wouldn't have to make some very difficult cuts. And that's a lot >> always commit ECS money to the Board of Education. Tom and I had this discussion today. It's It's Tom's opinion and and I'm I'm not going

068to argue, I don't know. This This is the first time this has happened, right? That if we knew if if we knew the revenue was coming in now, it would you could count it in your budget as revenue and allocate it. Because it would be coming in as new revenue after you've taken action on the budget, it would require a supplemental appropriation to apply it. Tom, am I correct on that? That's your That's your thing. That's what you and I talked about. That makes sense. >> So it's just procedurally, but would there be any reason why the town of why we wouldn't do that? I mean, to me it's >> [clears throat] >> Well, cuz if we didn't, we'd have to help the Board of Ed anyway. Right? To make the Yeah. Right. You would

069You wouldn't want me to run a deficit budget. >> Right. >> No. You would want me to make cuts and have a balanced budget on July 1st, knowing that I'm 12:01 a.m. on July 1st, I'm already out of balance. So it's like making the cuts and then potentially undoing them because we could have this if we had to break out the box, but I'm just saying I'm I'm just trying to understand why there would be any question why ECS money wouldn't go to the Board of Education. Cuz the budget is passed. So if the budget is passed and there's expenditures that are there set, there has to be a way to get the mechanism to make the expenditures higher. So we would Yeah, it's process, though. Yeah, but I mean it's like if you go

070to a you go to a special town meeting could say no. Yeah, yeah, right. So I mean it's not necessarily a given, but it's, you know, it's the process, correct? >> Okay. So the house the house plan was you were saying was a $1,000 per kid increase. And the Senate was $2,000. Cuz I think I think it's not >> Cuz that that's $1.3 million. It is Okay, so it's not just $1,000 a kid. So it's not as easy as 1,000 * 1,300 kids. Got it. >> Yeah, I was I was I was having a question on the math myself and I'm kind of I was like our schools are paid for, you know. It's We We wish, right? The ECS formula would require a very, very difficult We would need a David Eisenstadt like presentation

071for it. It's a very complicated formula. Just question, Charles. Um Just just so that we're all clear on what you're talking about when you say >> difficult decisions that have to be made with that sum of money. We talking about eliminating positions? Is that what Is that what that would be? Oh, a $200,000 If I have to cut $200,000 definitely. Oh, that most definitely. That there there are there are FTE position cuts, you know, extracurricular cuts, sports cuts, um No. No, look, I I I It's so complicated, right? I mean, the the reality is $200,000 is potentially two out of place kids, right? I mean it's it's the difference between if we hire new teachers this summer, if they take family plans or single person plans. Um it's the difference of whether this new program

072that we're still going to get this house for can bring in two tuition students. If You know, there's it I mean, $200,000 is less than 1% of my budget, you know, so so I'm I'm not I don't want to I don't want to say I don't want to scare anybody, but you know, right now I it would mean some position cuts, but you know, you know, it's March, right? I mean, we got April, we got May, we got June, we got hiring to do. You know, where I hire people, how much You've heard it here, how much experience Like your your youth services person, if you hire someone with a ton of experience, you're going to pay them more. If you hire a brand new person, you pay them less. Same with us. So you

073know, the the $200,000 cut will be difficult and I would [clears throat] definitely not recommend going more than that. That would be be a challenge. Um you know, I'm I but just know that I'm now in a $200,000 deficit and now have to work hard and hope that you know, we get one fewer or less out placement. We get more tuition students in. People take either no health insurance cuz they're on their spouses or single person plans and not family plans. That we can tuition kids in. That the State Department I mean, the the Senate bill prevails and we're getting more per student. It's It's going to be a lot. It's going to be a lot. But at the same time, I do want to say and I have to recognize that I also am

074very aware that we're we are going to have a very big ask for this community on May 11th with what we need to do in the schools. And I too share and support your goal of trying to get out with a reasonable operating budget because if we generate a no vote on this because it's perceived as too high, it's likely folks are going to come double no, right? So, I'm with you, right? And and I'm willing to work with you on this. I've I've got to have conversations with Royal. Don't forget I'm representing the Board of Ed budget and I haven't had a chance to debrief with Royal yet and Royal, feel free if you want to come up and say something. I am representing the Board's budget, so. Yeah, so going beyond going above

075200 even to the 230 number, you know, you're you're putting additional pressure on me and I'm going to you know, obviously work with what we have to work. I don't want to lay people off, you know, but that's what I already have. I mean, you've seen it in my budget. There are May I can I just ask one I'm sorry to go ahead I'm sorry go ahead go ahead. One question just cuz I had and I meant to ask you this to just make sure that we understand cuz I know in your reduced budget, the BA, the para and a teacher, correct? >> Correct. Yeah. So, I know that's a reduction, but did you add any positions in this? No, we flatlined everything. The only >> Okay, so there's no add. No positions. The The

076only add there is for the $60,000 to rent the house. 50, excuse me, to to rent the house here, which is an investment because by at renting the house, we're able to be a landlord for I'm very close to a lease agreement on a reading come so that's going to offset it. But we haven't signed we haven't inked that deal yet, right? I know Tom has counted it as revenue and we're very close it's going to work and it also is an investment because if we build a beautiful program here, which I know it's going to be, we're going to attract we've already started marketing additional So, all of those things are anticipated offsets, but that is the only new programming or or anything different than we're doing from this year. Okay, thank you. Do

077And we don't in the transitional program for those students, is there any kind of funding that comes from the state or anywhere because we have to provide what we provide to students 18 to 22? Definitely. So, Royal, you got it. I'd have to talk to you about the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act grant, which is another revenue stream that we receive from the federal government. That's the special education law. Um So, that's all in there all in your book there. You see IDEA grant. It's It's also we use some of our title money for it. Um So, there are other revenue streams that I have And have those money's been kind of flatlined or reduced the way that your We definitely are not seeing as we should, frankly, a large influx of new funds

078from the federal government. Wow, that's Yeah, right. Right. And these are These are, by the way, the definition of unfunded mandates. Well, that's Yeah, I just >> It's the ultimate in unfunded mandates, which makes us all very angry and frustrated, but But it's important that people understand that because we know there's a lot of in other departments that sit in this room that have unfunded mandates that people need to understand that we have to make these things happen. And and and look at these these unfunded mandates, I am they are the right laws. Yes, you know, we do not It is good that we don't discriminate as a nation anymore. It is wonderful that we provide educational services to all students, but when you pass a law, you should also commit to it. And and

079instead you just pass it on to people who own property as opposed to coming out people's income tax. It's all tax money, right? I mean, it's all coming from some pot. It's just we all believe that that pot has shifted too heavily towards those folks who own property. So, um Andrew, so I'm done. Okay. So, I mean, you know, really I mean, we can't predict what's going to go on in Hartford, right? We just can't do that. Right now, our job is to get this budget brought in. The only way we're going to do that is I mean, obviously I mean, you got to talk to your board. Uh $232,000 is a big number. I get it. Uh and I mean, I I mean, I think we all appreciate what what you guys do and

080what the board does, but you know, it I I think we do got to try to come up with that kind of really it becomes where will the 232 come up with? Then if the ECS returns an extra 100,000, 60,000, 150,000, if and when that happens, that's another day, but right now I think the the uh the directive, correct me if I'm wrong, is uh work with the with your board to come back with a revised budget that reflects the 232 reduction. Yeah, and and now what I'm hoping you do is listen to Tom and make it two. I I like the number two better than 232. Um Well, to be honest, right? The number that I came in here with was four at the mill rate and it and now we're creeping up to

081the 4.2. I like that number better and it's like and and this is why we have checks and balances and this is why we all why we're all here, right? At the end, we're going to arrive at something that we could all live with. And everybody's unhappy. I'm already there. already there. Andrew, I'm sorry. You're good. Okay. Okay, good. By the way, >> No, I thought you were still looking to say something. No, no, I just listening to you. Excellent. So, I'm looking at a budget that was already cut by about $75,000 originally, my budget. So, you guys are talking about $200,000 and that's really painful because everybody's going to take a share of that and it's going to be people. So, with that said, you all took a hit, you moved money from capital,

082you're going to spend money that we didn't spend last year, which is a great move. Um My personal opinion on capital, it's the most broken portion of our budget we ever had forever. 1999, I started doing budgets here. Nothing's changed. 1999, my first year sitting here. Still here. So, this is what I think we could do. Capital for Board of Ed. I've been working hard on technology. Yeah, I'm doing all that now a little bit. And um we're trying to refine the way we do business in primarily paying people for software licenses, which are ridiculous. So, we're looking at new technology that doesn't require licensing for a Wi-Fi AP device. We have to upgrade those. They are at end of their service life by over two years. They're starting to fail at the schools, so

083we're having great difficulty with the students being able to get on the Wi-Fi. You know, they're not plugged in, but they're working on Chromebooks. That's all they have. So, we're trying to bridge that gap and save some money. So, today, believe it or not, we met with it Well, we've been meeting with them for months, but actually they came into our our building today, looked at our current infrastructure and I'm pretty confident that we can reduce that technology line item for the upgrades, which that's really part of that process, by $32,000. 32, I think. I hope to save more than that, but I'm not confident enough to say that. Well, okay. Well, then that means that that took that 32,000, you're back to your 200. Yeah. Okay, page 138. Food services equipment. What page you

084again, Tom? 138. Thank you. I'm good. Yeah, you had a It was the the original ask was 132. That's right. Yeah, 132. >> to? 100. 100? And with any luck, I mean, listen, it's technology, right? So, we're we're working to make it better and cheaper. Um it's a plan that we're going to have to you know, we're I'm under the the gun because our contract with the the existing company ends before school ends. They shut us off like a switch on a wall and they did it last year. And we lose all our Wi-Fi. So, I'm working to try to get this done in advance of capital funding, which we can. We might have to have a mechanism to do that because we need to be able to change enough of these devices out so

085that we still have Wi-Fi on the 4th of June for our students in the areas that we need them until we can get the whole system changed out over the summer. So, it's a battle. You know, so but we're I'm confident with the number. It's the process that I have to to build to kind of make this switch happen for us to save the money over time. So. Licensing is expensive at the tune of about $80,000 a year. So. Yep. Thank you, Bob. So, I think what I just heard was reduce capital by 32 and then I'll I You You don't take it out of your books. I will work with the board to Here's what I I will not do anything until May, right? And because by then the legislative session will be over

086and we'll know if I'm going to be here asking you for a supplemental and that's going to determine the extent of cuts. But right now, we don't count our chickens before they hatch. I've got to now work with the board to identify 200,000 in cuts. Oof. Well, we'll we'll we'll get there. I'm going to hope I'm talking about $50,000 additional cuts, right? That's it. And you'll follow when you budget out. Right. 50. 50,000 is the current in this number. Right. 50 4 50,000 in the Board of Ed budget and 32 additional in the capital. It'll be 120. You're going down to 125,000. You agree with that? 90013? Minus 32,000. Yep. I thought it was 125. >> Yeah, 125. >> Yep. Okay. Then we're going to move to the the The operating budget. If I even

087within that 4 payment, I have a structural >> No. deficit already. >> In the future, we need to mic it Tom's table. And tell them what it looks like. Yeah. That's exactly right, Tom. Or we can get Tom to go up there. But Charles, just repeat what he says just so people can hear it at home. So, what what he's what you're unable to do through in the Board of Ed budget cuz you don't you don't have the same level of detail Right. with as a other as the department's are. Those are the town budget is you're just going to take 50,000 out of the bottom line number. >> Yes, on page 13. 50,000 Yep. Yeah, page 13. Yep. that little number by 50,000. Page 13, reduce the total number by 50. >> That's that's

088the proposed budget of 27,218,420. Correct? 27,168,420 420. Okay. So, bottom of page 13 50 Page All the way bottom and that reduces the percentage down to 4.8 >> 27,168.40 420 27 168 420 Got it. The percentage goes down to 4.80% 4.80. Got it. Did that? That's right. 18 13 10 13 Thanks, Sal. He stole 100,000. Oh, okay. We trust the access to the balance into Thank you, Charles. Thank you, Bob. Bob Can I Before we before I lose the thought, just want to ask another question. The the proposed No, not for you, Charles. No, I just I'm I'm kind of thinking out loud. Bob Bob Shay, you talked about some enhancements to the Wi-Fi that get us away from those certificates and all the licensing >> licensing fees. When we get to our other page

089with with town IT costs, is there any way we can make similar changes to what Bob's proposing up at the secondary schools to help us do the same thing with some of our IT costs? I mean, I I'm just I'm asking the question. I know we don't have the answer, but It's different. It's different? >> Well, it is our Wi-Fi. But yeah, I mean Can we We've done some components here for some of the grants in this building. And then there's a couple other buildings that we've done. >> So, you've already kind of done that? Yeah, there's just there's different characteristics. So, he's he had one model and now his is end of life. Yeah. improve things end of life. To Bob's credit, finding better ways, finding newer ways, finding maybe less expensive ways, hopefully

090better ways. And and it's remedying the matters there. And as we do similarly on the town side you know, Pete and his team does that as well. Again, a lot of times we all talk together and he did something, we talked to them. He did something, we talked to them. great, so I thought maybe we could leverage it somewhere else around town. >> It's bigger on it's bigger on there's a much broader Wi-Fi cuz of all the kids with all the other devices. So, in the schools it's a it's a much broader base. Thank you. Just wanted to put the question out before I lost it. So, the So, the final number for the the BOA to try to close the gap was 232. We We found 32. We got 32, so it's still 200.

091Right? Okay. So, my aggressive calculations on here um show spending now with the changes that we have in the 50,000 total off of their budget uh 43 uh million 527,257. Now we're down to 4.2% overall right now. We're at 4.3 4.2% 20. Mhm. And that's the difference. The point two is the difference between the 3.88 cost reduction to to versus four. We We We need another 90,000 to get to uh 4.2% I'll trust your number before mine. Yeah, me too. >> Okay. That sounds better than my You got a better calculator than I do. 4.13? That makes sense cuz there was a good chunk of money. We were at 4.3 already. >> at 4.3 already. We just took out another 80 something thousand. We were at 4.150. And what what with that just with that

092change, what does that reduce our mill rate to now? The mill rate increase. Cuz I believe we were at 1.62 with what we did with us with Jim's proposal. Yeah. He said just do With as much time as he wants as always it gets to 1.55. Still 1.53. Oh. Wow, 1.53. What is it? mill rate Yeah. percent 4.33 4.33 Sounds right. That's better. It's much better. Um Sarah I know there was an issue before. I think it's probably not You wanted to talk about something in the budget. Okay. So let's take a quick break from this. There was an issue that I think Sarah wanted to bring to the board's attention. So, Sarah Caritascio's director of the Senior Center. Um So, like I said, I I don't know um how it happened or if it

093was an oversight, but anyway, so I'm bringing it to your attention tonight. Um So, uh I just wanted to note that the requested adjustment was made um but I didn't. So I'm respectfully requesting an additional 12 hours per week for the part-time clerk. >> Page 94 95 Um so, that that's what I'm referencing that wasn't in the budget. Um So, anyway, for the part-time clerk due to the continued growth of membership, programming, and service needs, I'm also requesting consideration of comparable director of municipal agent roles in senior um centers across different towns of comparable size. Given [clears throat] my LMSW and gerontology background, I also and and I also didn't request any capital improvements this year and tried to keep the budget focused only on operational needs necessary to maintain services. Um So, I thank

094you all for your hard work because this is a really tough job. I know I could never ever do this or be in your shoes. Um and I understand this budget is very very challenging and in a perfect world, we would all do this work simply for the passion we have for serving our community. However, um appropriate staffing support and compensation are necessary to ensure we can continue to provide quality services to our older folks. That's all. The The part-time line item is for currently 8 hours. It is. Okay. And the additional 12 hours that you're requesting, we can just as a percentage just increase that by that number. Do you know what that number would be? Um Well, I had to do the math pretty quick when I came in and I am I

095cannot compare it to Tom, but it would increase I think by approximately 9,984, which would bring a total to 20,000. So, double. Okay. Um you know, I will be happy with you know, if you can't do 20, but we we do need the help. We absolutely need the help. Just want to make sure that we have the numbers of Well, it's 20 hours now, 13. Or is this game I don't know. You tell me. I don't I'm not union. Is this Is it driven by the union position driven by the hourly rate? By the hour. Or by the capacity of the position? Cuz she's asking for what it would be I I >> [clears throat] >> I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it would be 20 hours. Uh but I don't know

096for sure. I'd have to check with >> It's 30, right? Yeah. 30 is full-time. 30 30 is when I think full benefits kick in. But I know we have some part-time folks that are 20 hours that are in the union. So, it's a Mhm. It's a good question. Yeah. Find out. Okay. Sure. Okay. Do you No. Yes, it's currently eight. So, I'm asking for an additional 12. 10 10 650. Is that 10 650 only for the one employee? >> [clears throat] >> No, it's good cuz it's multiple benefits. I didn't hear your question, John. I I I was just talking to myself. >> Okay. Yeah. Asked myself a question and then he answered back. That's scary. >> Yeah. He was asking about the 10,650. Is that just for the eight hours or is that with

097anything else? That's the eight hours. Yeah, that's that's it. That's what I was thinking. If it's if it if it's only for the eight hours for one person that's basically it I basically it brings it up and basically it's two and a half times what you're starting at. So, the budget will be two and a half times. So, it'll be more like it. Yeah. So, it's more than Yeah, it's more than it's more than 9,000. It'll be more like What did you say, Tom? About 26? You're You're trying to add two and a half hours a day. With the one and a half. Is that right? Um um You're adding an additional 12 hours a week. Yeah. Before Yeah. And And obviously for 15.1. And do we know does that trigger any other Does that

098trigger those? That will probably change the um vacation time and sick time allocations, I would think, too, right? Um I think if it if it works the same as the drivers, they have to be 30 or below. For benefits to be eligible. >> For medical, yeah, I know. Medical, that's your Um sick time and she has the sick time and vacation vacation. And for And the requested again is you have additional need. You feel that'll be enough to handle the increased services, the increased things that you're doing there and you feel comfortable with that amount of work. We'll make it work. Okay. Any other questions? If we do, if we do, we'll pull you up again. But we'll try We'll try not to. Okay. We'll try not to. All right. Um So, is there anything

099else that we can find in this budget? Can we make it Can we get it lower somehow? Can we get it to be 1.50? What What other What else do we have in here that we can work on? I I I haven't done that yet. So, what does that bump us So, what Yeah, what does that bump us up to? savings back to 16,000. 750, right? Is that the 1.5? So, let's Let's have a discussion about this right now. It's something to present here. What What's What's everyone's feeling about this item? And can we find an offset? Do we feel that's something that's necessary? I think it sounds like it is. I I believe the need sounds like it justifies it. But are we prepared to do that? And can we find offsetting dollars for

100that? And is Is it something that the board wants to do? So, unless the math is wrong, I mean that's that's a lot of dollars an hour, right, for an admin? I don't know what the person's doing, but I mean it just if you take the total dollar amount, you divide by the hours, it's like $36 an hour. Is that what it would Yeah. Right? That line item is going to go from like 10,000 to uh 36,000, right? >> No. No. 26 25 750. That's what it's going to go up >> That's what it That's the final number. Oh, it's 16,000. Okay, so it's 25,000. Right. So, your number was right. >> It's 6,000. Got you. It's 26 bucks, roughly. Got it. Okay. More More reasonable? I take back what I just said. >> [laughter]

101>> He's just ready to fight you. No, that's okay. We're looking at it. Yeah. So, so I propose that we see if we can find some additional savings in here. And again, circle back to this question now if if if we're not comfortable deciding on it now, but let's see if we can find something. I think this board's been pretty open to if we can find or fund something that maybe deserves to be funded and we can find from somewhere else, we're certainly open to that. But should we look for more money? Well, I guess what I heard yesterday to be frank and honest was we we're going through page by page and everybody was well, no, nothing there, nothing there. I didn't hear anything. So, unless we're circling back and then changing our mind

102about what people said, I didn't see anything but adds. I didn't see anything Earlier today, I took a red marker and I went to each individual page you looked at last night and I ran a red line through everything that was a solid number that can't move. The The electricity, computer work, the negotiated salaries, the benefits. And I it's just there's red all over the place. There's There's really not a lot to move on. I agree. I hate to I hate to even ask it, but I mean, we did this last year and I don't want to go there, but do we do we look at some of the capital requests or are we solid on all of this? All right. Um good evening. Uh page 140, please. 140? If If the board would agree,

103I will uh the highway division will give up its town garage seal coat for for 22,750 if you could find a way to work out that number for Sarah so that her uh person could have the additional hours. Your department would be willing to do that and that would be something you would be okay with if it didn't get done? Correct. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's a huge chunk of what we need, though. Well, that it actually is slightly more than we needed, right? >> Right. Cuz the increase is 16 over last year, basically. See? He was He was listening. And we what we talked about, we also were looking for money yesterday for the charter. And we haven't even talked about the 250 committee, either. Right. So, with Jason taking that, he is covering

104more than just Sarah's ask. It'll probably be Sarah's ask and cover the charter ask cuz we were talking between five and 10 for that. 36,000 left after the 16 goes to Sarah. I know you said something about America 250. I don't know what you're what else? We received an email for an asking the budget of this for events throughout the year this year. Today we did? No. It's been a while. It's been a while back. >> It was like weeks ago. 44 was it? How much? I want to say it was 43,000. Was their total Was their their total ask of budget minus what they already have. They're just under 14,000, I believe, as a budget balance of their committee. Those events occurred this this year. This year. In this not this budget. Both. Both.

105They span Yeah, they span a bit of a full year, so they span 43,000 was the Yeah. And actually it came from you, sir. Does that number sound right? >> Wait, but we never never discussed it as a board. No. No, you're right. We have not. Yeah, I mean I would entertain a discussion >> 35, wasn't it? I'm not. So I mean I I to me I Is that fire Are we doing our own fireworks? Or is that to blend in with with Middletown? Sir. Go to your favorite spot. >> [laughter] >> Uh Sarah, before you start with the uh your total of 43 included uh 25,000 for the fireworks. I'm just That's I'm just reading your email. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we should digest that first, right? So that change Probably not. Before you add

106anything. Before we add these other things that we just So now that's that's our base right now. So now we have to consider the question fireworks and what that would be to it. Well, I mean I can I can tell you I I mean I I I I love a good fireworks show. We're not going to get a good fireworks show for 25,000. >> That's my point. And we've had We've got potential cuts that are going to be made with folks because we've cut We're asking people to cut to the I just don't think we can fund No, this is just this was their request and starting point. Yeah. So it's 43,000, take out the 25,000, you're out to 28. They have 14. And so just under 14. So the difference right now is 14

107from the rest of their ask. >> Okay. Give me the numbers again. What is 44? 43. 43. It's the ask in the committee. And take out the fireworks is 25. >> Minus 25. >> Leaves 18. So 4,000 difference. Yeah, 4,000 difference. >> Okay. And then they have 14, so it's 4,000 >> Just under 14. Right. So then that if we take fireworks out, it's 4,000 additional dollars. Is that the right mapping? For the total of the request? No, the total request was 45, right? >> 43. 43 and then if you take out the fireworks there's a pushback on that. It leaves the balance of 18. >> 18 and you guys have 14 already? A little bit. A little bit under. So so then you're the ask is first 4,000 or so dollars to get the

108other needs that are in there. There Now, do you guys have the I think the request I sent you? Yes, right here. Okay. So there's there's more like the plaque is 3,500. The signs and banners, but actually we should take that off. Is that already covered the banners? Signs and banners 2,500. Yeah, I know, but I I thought that I don't know if we're really You just look You just in your uh you just basically you kind of itemized. It's not an Excel. It's a It's a you know, it's a it's a document, right? And at the end it has total 43,000. Mhm. Uh So if you And in there one of the line items was fireworks 25,000. Like Bobby said, that comes out. But if you're then saying that signs and banners comes out

109at 20 That's the way you're you documented it, it's part of your math. Mhm. I mean I I I'm assuming somebody punched them in right and came up with the 43 grand, but signs and banners at 2,500 is in there. That adds into the 43. Correct. So >> So all of these things here, that's what we we were requesting. So the fireworks we know is a big ask, but that was requested of us. Mike, you know, wanted us to do fireworks. Um do we in the parade, but we're still trying to figure out things, what our role is with Middletown. So until we find more information out about that, then I don't want to count on them for any funding. That's what I'm saying. And this was supposed to be funded last year. Yeah. You're

110Are you asking for 18,000 dollars more? Yeah, if you take away the we're agreed not to ask for the 25, right? Or Right. Okay. So yeah, whatever the difference is, yeah. Take the 25 Mhm. But they have 14. I'm Right. No. Yeah. No. And how much money do you guys have in the account from the fundraising? Like 14. I think that that's the difference. So So on top of the 14 you have, it's an additional 18. Mhm. It is. I don't understand. >> Yeah. So I mean if someone wants to go and add it up Would you want to add all I'll give you the numbers and you can add them up. We need to add it up. >> Yeah. So that's 20 Yeah, it's 48. You take the 43,000, take out 25,000, that's 23,000.

111Right? Mhm. And then you guys have 14. That's 9 grand. So 9 grand. Okay. Okay. So wait wait wait hold on. No, what is 43,000? >> 25 >> Minus 25 is 18 minus 14. >> Minus 14. I don't know why we're not at 43. Minus equals 18. Yep. >> Minus 14 is 4. Minus 14 equals 4. Correct. Yep. The way I see it, I get the same math thing. Yes. So if we provide another 4,000 to the 14 that you already have, it should cover everything except for the fireworks. Well, I hope so. I wasn't prepared. I was just prepared to talk about my senior center budget, so I don't have any of this information readily available. And Terry is a treasurer and he could better speak to all of this. >> Just take back

11222,000. What was the number you gave back? 22,000. So the increase to the senior line, right, that we were talking about with the part-timer was about 17,000. We're going to go from 10,000 to 27,000. >> But it's 15,100 dollars for the pay increase. Okay, so call it 16. This is for we're still a thousand or two thousand to the good. So we have >> But we need the charter revision money. Different item. Yes. So You're right. But And the charter revision money is what? For legal? It It's for legal. And And And actually what I'm going to suggest tonight to the board is there's a price range on that that I mentioned last night between like five and plus thousand dollars. Five to 10 and maybe more than $1,000. Um given that there we have

113to look at all the details involved in that. I'm comfortable not including it in this. Again, if we need to do um an appropriation um when we start in July, August, September for that number when we have a a specific number, um that's fine. We could do that. I discussed and conferred with Tom on this um and I'm comfortable that that our budget can handle that. Um so because we just don't have all the total numbers on that right now. No, I I would agree. That's kind of where I was hoping we'd go cuz that's Yeah. So to possibly continue this. Right. So appropriation meaning you would see where we are on other line items and move it from this line item that maybe we're not going to spend to this item. Okay. I mean

114right now I I mean I think that Mike's working on trying to come up with stuff on that. It's just you know, it's it's such a fluid number there's there was a number from back in the 2008 that they put around like in 95 789,000. You ask me that up to current. It was like 14,000. Uh but then anytime you get the lawyers involved, you know, recently obviously that's been a that's a massive swing in time. The hourly rate on lawyers is much higher. So I think Mike's trying to work on it is really is it you know, is it 9 is it 25,000 one sample you know, what's the number? So I just think I it's like I think right now it's like you could really just throwing a dart at the wall and

115throwing a number out there with everything else that you guys are working on. I was I think that's what he's trying to figure out is what is the number. And so in the interim if you know, if the number shakes out that it's like 5,000, you might use contingency which hopefully that's 5,000 but you know, you know, if it's if it shakes out that it's 25 or 30,000, then you might do go either go and do a supplemental appropriation out of fund balance. You know what I mean? Or to that matter. Because you you know, you wouldn't take away from your current stuff until you know, you would take out a contingency if you thought that was reasonable enough to take out a contingency. And if you didn't think it was a reasonable number to

116take out a contingency, then you would you know, [clears throat] opt for the supplemental appropriation when you know, have an you know, better idea of your numbers. Yeah, I asked I asked Michelle and Tom just to kind of give an idea over the past and even the the question cuz we also have to do a referendum. We have to probably have to publish in the newspaper. There's a lot of unknowns and costs have gone up and changed over the time. So even roughly we have a $10,000 number not including some legal fees and referendum fees and all that kind of stuff. So with based on that >> adjusted since the last time we did this? That's what that's what we have and and but so there's enough mystery but I think it doesn't need to

117be in in this particular budget. We think we have the wherewithal to get that done either by referendum or or either by a town meeting or with what we have for contingency. So for this budget's sake, I think we can push this to to later on in the year. I know we had talked about working on this thing as soon as this budget passes and the referendum passes. Hopefully in that excel. So I guess the question would be then where are we at with the 22,000 that that Jason was able to and his team were able to forego this year. Um but then adding How much did we shift towards this? The part-time payroll and senior center? It was 151 was the extra. So we have 7,000 left. Yeah, and then we had them add

118four in for 250 Right. which is the incremental. And where I'm looking on page 93 where we have the various social services in different ones like Brownstone Arch, Portland Fireworks. So we have to check with Tom as to which line item we'd either have to put it in but we'd have to add it to um to that 250 cuz if it's a new committee I believe we have But they told me it was a one-time thing. Right. It could be something that he adds to the first selectman's budget. >> Right. Because like like um project graduation is under your budget. Right. Not on this page for whatever reason. That's true. So is it So why don't we agree that we will add that $4,000 in to whichever budget makes the most sense. I'll let you

119know, I'll talk to Tom and confirm whether it's my budget or board of selectmen or whatever members but the agreement is $4,000. [clears throat] So >> [laughter] >> We're talking We're talking about a $4,000 toward this project based on the 14,000 they have. So So So So here's the math that we have we'll we'll do it together. No, it's four. >> Well, so here's what we've come up with and we'll do it do it So the total ask for the committee is 43,000. 25 of it we're we're deciding now that fireworks maybe aren't worth it, right? For whatever reason. So we're pulling that 25,000 out. So we're down to 18,000. They have 14,000 in their account. And this is funds that they would be spending anyways for this particular So it has to be spent

120this year. 4,000 now. Which is Yeah, so it's 4,000 net. Brings them up to the total 18,000 they need to buy the things that they need. 4,000 will be the money What page? Okay. Page 107 I just put it out there. $4,000 Right. Tom, would that make sense if it went through the first selectman's office like project graduation does? It's a one-time thing. We had no we we had literally had a a fund. Okay. Okay. Go back to the So we have accounted for everything that Jason gave back. You spent it all? I'm I'm saying is it all No, actually probably there's probably we're probably still about 3,000 to the good. It's 4 + 15 7 or whatever. Or yeah, like maybe 20 like 2700 to the good something like that. I'd say we want

121hold that for towards the charter or do we want to put it towards something else or Or just save it. Just wash it. Yeah. I I say let's for this sake let's just say let's put that forward reducing that. So with with those numbers, Tom, what's the what's the mill rate? 150 Is that what you got? What's the percentage? Um yes. 424 blended. Got it. It's like 131. Tom, say it again, please. I'm sorry. I don't 1.31. >> 131. Got it. 4.604 Okay. 4.124 Blended. Okay. The It's like the number Total 1.3 22,000 take out the So the And so we have the credit 0.2 on the town 1.32 or 1 52 overall. 150 town 6 454 4.3%? 4.32 >> 432. Got it. Okay. So 16 million 3.2 million dollars What about 271? 4.43 And

122what's that for an increase over last year? This is 4.13 so it's got be good. new rate school. 4.12 4.12, okay. All right. So, I think we've searched everywhere we can for funding. I'm going to reach out one more time and see if there's Is there anything else on board of that that you can think of that you would have or is there anyone else out there in any other department that feels that they have something that would help at this point? I think we're as close as we can. >> I have, I'm looking again at capital improvements and I you know, I'm I'm not saying we cut any of these. All I'm looking at are the top three dollar amounts on page 135. Um, and I'm wondering I assume these are solid numbers, but

123is there any fluff in any of the numbers? Um, town wide computers is 105,000. Town wide phone system is 100,000. And the fire department generator is 115. Were any of those numbers packed a little or are they solid? Is there any wiggle room? Yeah. Yeah, okay. No, I know. I just I'm trying to see if we can find a little more. After Bob's advice from 1999 >> [laughter] >> You're right. Change that. Okay. I'm not saying we cut them. I just want to know if there's any flexibility in the number of them. >> Listen, it's worth asking, right? Absolutely. So, um, there were a couple things that were brought up the other night um, while we're taking maybe a short break from >> We had the 1,500 that we took out yesterday, right? And we

124had I think a 1,506, but we We put the six back in. Yeah, where was that? Yeah. We went from 5,500 to 1,000. So, Well, we said we could. I didn't know if we got them. But you already got that one in. It is. So, So, one of the One of the things we talked about last night was the was the dial-a-ride and the impact on that, too. So, I did email out to everyone on the board some of the details. Um, the contract our approval of September 18th we approved uh this um We have a contract with them ending June 30th of this year. So, we'll need to decide what to do with again, but in looking at the numbers um We do get >> than I thought. >> There are a lot more

125riders and so I'll give you an example. So, in 2023 we just started and the average ride over the 233 medical rides and and others was about $111 per ride. It was a brand new to the town. What's that? 111 riders. $111 per cost per based on what the contract was back then. Um, and again, relatively high, but when you factor in what it costs us to do with the people that drive it and back and forth and time wise, I don't know how long each call was. I don't know what was involved in the maintenance, but again, that seemed high to me, but last year or two years ago in 2024 it was uh for 610 total rides it was $50 $51 a ride for what they did. We had 610 uh residents in

126town use that as a service. So, that's that's good over the years. Well, 610 rides is it necessarily 610 rides? Yeah, you have to Yeah, what you're saying is That's true. Yes. Repeat there, right? That's that's true. >> They they list the purpose of the trip. Yeah, medical, shopping >> was a significant number. Right. And then Mike, you're accusing that you're using basically what we paid divided by the number of rides. >> By the number of rides. Just to give us just some baseline. And then this year or last year 2025 it was 540 total for about $59 a ride. just back of the napkin, um, you know, with our van, yeah, it's probably comparable. Uh, I mean, Sarah could probably give me more details, but if it's taking an hour or two to get

127someone there and back and the cost of the driver and the insurance and all that kind of stuff, it's probably comparable and it's probably worthwhile, I think, continuing that cuz these rides are in complement of what's being done with Sarah right now. But we're paying $33,000 for 500 rides. And we don't know who's taking the ride. But the municipality These are Portland residents. This is I asked them what's the >> 100% Portland residents. Not that it's a Portland pickup. They're picked up in Portland. Yes, I guess that's as close as it can be. They're saying it's Portland These are They're classifying these as Portland. Cuz the person was picked up in Portland. Right. So, it doesn't mean that it's our resident. But I think it's probably a good indication. Yeah, I think I think as

128we cuz we're going to be looking at the renewal on this, I think it's going to be a good good discussion. Be good to get more granular data from them, but you know, and but also um, also I I think we talked about this a little bit the other night, but um we are the representative on the board just I think it's good for us to bring up the concerns we have about the wait times some of our residents are experiencing. >> Absolutely. But but I want to make sure everyone got the data as we talked about last >> So, it sounds like two or three two or three pickups a day. Yeah. Roughly. Right. >> Right? Right. >> Okay. What I what what I found interesting was the purpose of the trip in that

129540 number for 2025. I mean, I'm working from from right to the left. They said no There were two that had no purpose at all they listed. 92 were work. 25 were personal. None were senior activity. Which might probably leads to the fact that we're covering a lot of the senior stuff with our bus. 18 were to shop and 403 were medical. I mean, I There's that many people that are using these for medical. I mean But at a minimum it's worth the discussion because we want to make sure we do that, but the contract is coming up and that could have an impact going forward on what we do with this. So, Right. Um, the other thing too we we We haven't talked about it, but it's just someone had asked me yesterday about

130this thing and I spoke to Richard about it. Um, some of the headwinds that we had on the budget this year and and it's it's nothing wrong with it, but um, the veterans veterans just got the ticket on taxes had about $116,000 impact on our on our revenue over the year. Um, so there were some other things that kind of slowed down the revenue, which is why we're I think partially I'm not saying we're struggling because of that, but that was some of the impact that we had that wasn't there a couple years ago cuz that's something that the state put out there and we had I think 23 residents in town rightfully were able to use that. So, we have to be mindful of that going forward as we do budgets that there may

131be others that come on there and we have to plan accordingly. So, as Bob is saying and everyone on this board is saying in one way or another, we just have to plan ahead because comes the capital or other trends that we're seeing, but that was the impact this year. I expect that'll be more next year as well. And they're well deserved, right? There's a reason that they got that. So, Mike, one question before we move on with the dial-a-ride. >> Yes. Is that two separate contracts with dial-a-ride and with transit? Yeah, so we could agree to one, but not the to the other. So, I honestly don't know if they're both tied together or not. I'll find that out. Um, and we're coming up on on the negotiations. Uh, one of the gentlemen that

132came here Brendan, uh, he came here last year and talked about it. Um, he's also willing to come back out here as we get closer to the contract to discuss what it is and we can ask him all those questions then. Could we also know the other towns involved? We should What they pay. We should. Absolutely. So, Very good question. >> Yeah, absolutely. Listen, every dollar we got to make sure we're getting it. And again, I think at the end of the day if it's servicing our residents and and it it it adds quality and it's affordable and it makes sense. That's not affordable. Well, so let's let's let's take it down a little bit cuz we we have plenty of time. So, if let's say What is it? Sorry. Bus. Just about You're saying

133the the other bus. The rural bus. Yeah. The one that drives around. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to actually ask Sarah to come up here just for a quick second. Um, I think having someone that's worked with seniors and maybe people that have medical needs, I think you know, we that are maybe more able than a lot of these would take that for granted, but I think the cost of someone taking let's say our senior center bus. Uh, let's say it's a two-hour drive. Um, you've got the cost of the employee, you've got the cost of the maintenance, uh, which we don't have to cover in this thing. I'm not saying it should be apples to apples, but I think getting an idea of what an average cost per rider for what we do and

134what it costs for other services and whether we're getting all the whole need. So, anyways, Can you maybe So, talk about the cost comparison? >> Either cost comparison or just how easy is it to get a bus versus using a service like this and and the type of person that uses it based on your experience. Um, the >> Like if people watching at home tonight that they want to Sure. know a little more. Sure. Based on my experience, it is not easy for older adults. There's a lot of barriers from um, you know, River Valley Transit expects you to use an online sign-up system that's very challenging. Um, it was over a year ago I was told that they had people who would ride with you and give you guidance on how to navigate that

135whole system of riding the bus maybe getting off somewhere close to Hartford all those things they no longer have that person so I have been referring people to dial-a-ride and they don't have that person anymore so I only found out when we went to that meeting so that's a challenge that's really hard I mean it was even confusing when he was here explaining the different routes and you call this one at this time you call this one at that time um You know my experience working with older adults it's really hard that's really challenging unless they have someone to help them Maybe they do now I mean that's been a couple months since he said that Um They as you mentioned last meeting you know someone was stranded and we ended up bringing them home

136I hear stories all the time that people are waiting for several hours before they get picked up it's not reliable Um you know that the gap in between the routes they get stuck waiting and someone who may have a disability or uses a walker can't sit around and wait for hours it's very challenging physically Um What else would you like to know So but but if I may mention just using the bus service let's say they don't use the senior bus they they don't use dial-a-ride then we're telling them just to kind of hook it on a bus is that a challenge um Is that something that's available like outside of outside of either service what you do or what they do um you know what other options are there for residents Um well there's

137there's Veyo but that depends on what type of insurance they have if they have title 19 or Medicaid that's covered I Was speaking with a lady this was probably about six six months ago and um Without sharing too much we were talking and she was having challenges getting to her appointment in New Haven for chemo treatments and things like that so um Long story short I told her I said well why don't you come down or call on Monday and we'll give you a ride for $5 because she was paying $100 each way So it she was saying she didn't have the money to continue to go and that was really sad really sad so sometimes people will not get medical treatment because they can't afford either medication or doctor's visits or Um trips You

138know I was told tell them to call an Uber an Uber that will cost $100 at least So I don't know many um People on a fixed income that can afford that There's lots of barriers I mean I could I could bore you all all night with all the barriers So right now we're spending $32,000 for that service for two or three people a day right So here's a here's a question I'm trying to answer >> extra if you had that $32,000 you'd be able to give More than two or three people a ride Absolutely well consider the population of older adults in town And everybody's aging And um You have to consider the big picture there These items could be split off There's definitely definitely an opportunity there to save money Mhm And give

139our seniors the type of Pick up and delivery and then pick up and bring them back home That they're used to getting when they're working with the senior center Right But not only dropping them off at the you know in a safe place but making sure that they get in the building and Absolutely but there's one thing that we that I still go back to that we all have to remember that individuals with disabilities use that service so then you have taken them out of the mix by taking that away Because the senior center is not going to serve a 45 year old person with a disability So you're you're Stalling you know for probably to help that and totally agree that they're getting a better ride I there's no argument there but we have

140to remember the entire population that's served by them That's why we need to get more granular data and reduce this budget even if it was half >> Right and it seems like Yeah went to the senior center it would improve it For the residents of Portland Agreed I just thought we couldn't take because we say we only want you to serve you know within the dial-a-ride certain of certain population I And my understanding of this is is they have a formula they use for each town but I think this is definitely a good vigorous discussion we'll have when we are coming closer to looking at the contract >> Definitely worth you know informing 100% and and and I think we need to get a lot of input between now and when we do that so

141it is well done Good point to Absolutely I think it's important for you to have the the data like I wasn't able to get the data from them of how many seniors use it he couldn't break it down between the ADA vehicle and the transit vehicle so if you don't have the data you really can't make an informed decision so it's really important to demand it from them and then also see if there's a way to split it so we obviously we have to serve our population with disabilities that are on the younger side The numbers they give us we don't know if it's all senior citizens or if it's all >> Right right that's the problem Vehicles that are being used or if it's just all So we need to know more people in

142there Could be a mess A 19 year old without a car right could you don't know what it is right We need to Right But but we need to know what what what and we need to dig into that so but I think it'll be a good discussion and it's a pretty significant amount of money so Yeah Let's look at that We know with the senior center how well they do with their money that they get for it I understand We just have to make sure we're covering the needs and we're and we know enough about it to make an informed decision so I think we have consensus on that But that's why that's why it comes back to we need the data and we need the Absolutely and we and we need someone that

143can answer the questions that I don't want to ask that we're not thinking of now so we can compare it so Right >> I've asked a couple times just so you know and I'm not getting it so you might have to go up So sometimes it's you get better answers when you're in negotiations You can keep asking them We're thinking we're thinking about not doing it what do you want to know So Um All right so Tom can you summarize one more time where we're at right now just to make sure I want to make sure we have all the numbers right Where we're at right now cuz this might be I'm hoping maybe the End point we wanted to get to Town government 16 When 32377 One sec Tom would it be inconvenient to

144go up to the microphone or we'll just have to repeat it for you what's better for you I'll repeat it if you want me to Tom >> Yeah there you go Tom All right so we're right now we're looking at the the proposed mill rate calculation sheet that we have And for the line proposed 2026-2027 expenditure budgets general government budget Tom just said we were at 16358837 and we're going down to 16323787 Cool Board of education is going from to 27168420 Total number 2020 The total combined town budgets is going from 4577257 Down to 43492207 >> [clears throat] >> Proposed mill rate Town 13684 Okay now I now I now I lost you Down at the bottom And then Say that again Tom please 1682 You want to read that one cuz you got I'm

145not sure I don't have the total I think you have right proposed for the town was 13684 Is that correct Tom Thank you 1364 64 okay that's where I lost the proposed mill rate Yeah Right 1364 proposed mill rate country 2318 For the What are you what are you asking me Mike what questions are you asking me We're just trying to understand what you want to know We're trying to get the final numbers that we've gone down to right now so what is our what's our mill mill rate increase for general government board of Ed and total we were at 1.51 before Oh you want the increase Yeah just just the general numbers the ones that Point two The town Point two zero One three two board One point three two >> One five two

146total Got it excellent And what's the percentage on that >> One four eight What's that one point four eight percent >> Six zero five Six point zero five >> Four three one Four three one Yeah Four point three one excellent And the deep or the increase in total spending versus last year. Our total is 43492207. Yeah, I believe it to be 412. 4.12 actually. These are the big numbers that we need. Yeah. All right. All right, so in summary then, the total town budget we've come down to so far right now is 43,492,207 altogether. That's an increase of 4.12 over last year. The mill rate increase under this proposed budget is a total of 1.52 down from the 1.89 that we had before. That breaks down to 0.20 for general government and 1.32 for Board

147of Ed. As a percentage, the total is 4.31 down from the 4. 6. 6 Yeah, we had before. Uh Board of Ed 6. 05 and uh town government 1.48. From a 1.80 we started at >> Yes, from a 1.80. Exactly. Um Let's just pause here for a second. I think I mean we've gone through this. I can't think of any other area that that I can see that is an an easy or even a difficult pull from. Does anyone else have any suggestions at all? Cuz I think you I I do. It's like it's you know, right now we're we're we're throwing away a lot of numbers and I could I mean I you could just feel the pain with poor town here. But it it's almost like can we give them a a day

148or two to just go back and cuz right now it's like everything's happening so fast. You know, two and two is five. Yes. You know, and just kind of go through just Well, yeah. We're we're >> reconfirm all this, maybe we print it all or resend it and we'll look at it again and just see these numbers come to life. Well, we're we're next our next meeting is the the actual date you adopted on the 8th. That's when we do this. So this is the night we confirm it. I know we have to we have to work through the the process. So that it's this is the night you would you know, you would you would do the thing. So we're doing it. The 8th. Do we have another No. No. No, but it was

149my understanding that we needed another night. We could have another night. Mike? Yes. Okay. >> We We have so we have not done that and it has because we haven't but and it's not on the budget but there in cases where we need to be one more spine. And it could be quick. I mean I guess the thing is is it's like you know there was a lot happening real fast and there's a lot of folks here that talk fast. And it's just it'd be really nice to I'll go through this right now. I'll go through it with you and tell you the changes. If you're comfortable Yeah. I mean I'm just trying to give you a an opportunity to So what was the idea to rather than bring all the department heads and stuff

150back out another night, I'd rather go for it tonight. Yes. Okay. Is that the number you guys want? So the only thing that I noticed So the only other thing that I it sounded like you guys were trying to get to the 150 mill. Uh the one the one I think the one thing I could slightly do for you to get to that that I'll make a a slight try attempt at a little bit higher of an estimate on uh on interest income. I'll get that to on page I'll get it to 32400. We'll shoot for that. It could be a little risky. But we'll we'll shoot for that. And that will get you so this is an update on the numbers here real quick. So you go back to the first page. The expenditures

151will be the same. It's 323787. It's 27168420. It's 4392207. And then um the the um the mill rate will be 1360. You don't like that? It's all right. You like the mill rate increase to be 0.18 150. And that'll be 133604. >> Yeah, sorry. 133 60.04425. That that that line dropped substantially from what we just talking about. Yeah. Okay. What do you mean? Well, we were at 148 and you dropped it to 130 1.48 to 1.33, right? And 1.6 16.05 You must have No, we were at 1.52 so it it it just dropped to Let me put that. That's the overall mill increase. Yeah. No, it's I I think we're good. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Right. You want me to undo what I did, right? Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Okay. Don't worry about it. Nope. Okay.

152So then on the page that's will be the Board of Ed summary. So then what we do there is on the bottom there you did it'll be -50,000 on the bottom of that number. So then that'll be 27168420. There's no computation. 13 There you go. So make sure everyone's on board with this. So on the bottom of page 13 Yeah, minus 50. Minus 50 that'll be 27168420. That should equal back to that first page the number that I read the first page. That's a 480. All right. Okay. Then general government What page? What page, Tom? What page? No, I have that. Give me a minute. General government. I'm doing tabs so you guys can just Uh page 15? 15. Oh. 15. Yes. So then I got to 16323787. Under under total government proposed budget. Give

153me the number again, please. 16323787. So that should be the same number that you had. Okay, so that's your first column. Yeah. That's a 478,577 increase or 3.02%. So 478577 3.02. Okay. And then Board of Ed it's the 27218420. >> Are we back to the Board of Ed page 13? Keep going to the next page. It's 13. That's 27218420. That's that don't that can't go by that. Let's skip that page. That doesn't work. Skip that. Okay. Let's go to the next page which is 17. Mhm. So that'll be 43 492207. Okay, you're looking at the total town budget number. Total town budget 432 43492207. Mhm. That's or 4.12. Okay. Okay. For a selectman uh budget which is the next page. 19. You lowered program services by some amount of money. It's now $4,000. Yeah. Agree

154with that? Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, it was 5,500 and something. Thank you. I don't have that cuz I overruled it. That's because you didn't tell me that, Jim, when I said it. That'd be helpful. Got you. I believe the next will be uh page 79. Agree with that? What? Getting there. You guys have been through that. 79. 79. Wait a minute. Hold on. Yeah, the one No, that's not That's not it. Zoning Board of Appeals? Nice. Yeah. It's 95. That's Yeah, makes sense. Samson? They would like that. Mhm. What temperature would it be? 25 750? That one went line 11003. You all increased that to 25 750. Okay. Do you want anything other than that? You just want the number, right? You don't want the advance. That's good. So, everyone we had anything else before that,

155right? But it was I'm going to leave so now. Okay, transfers will be quite a bit. So, on line 900 06 transfer out. What page 10? 107. Thank you. Got it. 107. So, 90006 transfer out. There was $4,000 and that was for the 250 committee. So, that made that go up to 114 750. Got it. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. Line I have that down to 504 500. So, everybody agree with that? That was a reduction of 60,000 55,000 64 250 50,000 and 22,750. All the capitals. Yeah, then plus the Jason the thing Jason did. Make sure. All right, on the next line down, which is 90013 transfer out capital non-recurring. It was 157,000. It was reduced by 32,000, which equals 125,000. So, that's it. Yeah, your total transfer out is 1,693,724. 1,693 724 724

156We're almost done. I promise you. As we're all looking at our watches, we're almost done. Okay. And what Page 136 State State of Connecticut grants was 102 in place of the 97 510, right? Yes. That would have been an increase of 4789. Transfer out town funds, that's 00501. Transfer Sorry, that was transfer in general fund town. That went to 629 500. So, you might want to just note just so you're so we can try to tie this into the expense to make sure we're done there. The estimated revenue is 1369799. Okay. Next page. No change on 137. We don't need to update the total department summary. I mean, that will change, but we'll do that at the other end of the books. Sorry. Line So, on the next page, which would be 138, technology upgrades

157down to 100. Down to 100 and then the next line to the right went to 175,000. It said push it out to the line 020202728. Thanks, Bob. Same page. ETV replacement forest suppression goes to zero and then the 60,000 moves to the next year, so it stays on in the plan. Next page, 130 infield groom replace infield groomer grounds goes to zero and then to the 55,000 goes into year 202728. park and wreck park and field improvements goes to 34789. lease department equipped cruiser replacement goes to zero and the line to the right, which is the next year, goes up by 64,250 to 203,250. 203,250 Okay. replace director vehicle goes to zero and then 50,000 moves to the next year. Next page. Highway division vehicle maintenance town garage lot seal coat goes to the next

158year, goes to zero, then goes to the next year. 22750 Thank you, Jason. So, that comes to 1369 799. It's the same number Jim as I said on the other page. Yep, 1369799. And it's a fix the other side. The only thing we got to make sure is the 6250 62950 that's in 001. Let's just go back to the transfers. Just to make sure that it is the same number. So, 629 Yeah, if you add the 90012 and 90013, that comes to 62950. Those match. The transfer out matches the transfer Got it. So, those are Everybody agree that those were the changes that you all wanted? Thanks, Tom. Thank you all. Um So, here's what I suggest cuz we've gone through a lot of numbers. We scribbled it down. Someone I'm sure has made a

159mistake on the numbers somewhere. Maybe me, but um Tom, tomorrow we'll make sure we run all the updated numbers. I don't know about that, but I mean, we'll we'll work through that. We'll get it ready for the April 8th meeting. You know what I mean? But what I want to do is I want to make sure that everyone here has at least the changes so they could see it and make sure that the changes that we did do are highlighted so everyone can know what the numbers are that we talked about different from. Um Once once we get that, if people have specific questions about the numbers or or whatever come talk to either Tom or I to make sure we have it. Um and if there is a need if there is a need

160that to bring us all back together again to discuss a point that maybe we're missing today, then we can look at doing one more meeting before April 6th or April 8th before we need to, but ideally April 8th. If everyone feels comfortable with where we're at right now with the numbers as we've talked about. I feel comfortable. I think we've come to a reasonable number. I feel comfortable this is the number I we can go out to the town. I think we've come to a subject makes sense and is as affordable as we can. I don't know where else we're going to pull that pull that out or so to be honest with you guys. Um but if if everyone is feeling unanimous about that, then I think that would be the next step. I

161think we get the get the numbers back. We confirm them all individually. We have some questions to come with me or come to Tom and discuss it and if we need to get together before April 8th, we shall make that happen, but otherwise April 8th will be the next time that we discuss and finalize these numbers that we did today. Yeah, cuz I think we we went from a 488 on spending to a 412. Um 536 on the mill rate growth to 425. All right, if we're looking at it. So, just thanks to all the departments heads and all the folks that were willing to try to work with us as well as Tom. Well, Absolutely. Yeah. I just I just for the record so we don't lose it. Over last last meeting and and

162this meeting, I know we brought up a lot of ideas and some discussion that has to happen to try to begin the process now to consolidate to to find other ways of saving. So, I would say at our next regular Board of Selectmen meeting, I'd like to discuss setting up a subcommittee to do that. And I as Charles Britton suggested, I think it might be good for Board of Ed to try to set up the similar committee and maybe the two committees could put their heads together and we can find those cross cross objects, you know, but I just want to make sure we flag that for future discussion. I want to lose it. >> 100%. I I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, I can't see without without that knowing that that's going to

163be happening. I just I wouldn't feel comfortable voting for this budget, but with that in place, that is what's going to for future years is going to kind of position us well. We have to find that. >> got to do this. Got to do that. I just I'm just going to I just want to speak to that just cuz uh but I quit a while and um you know, you you have a unique uh town here and we have a unique uh you know, this is you know, department where we have a you know, a um it's a very quite a bit of a consolidated finance department. Uh me and and Steph, you know, Steph and me work on the board side. My staff works on a lot of paying the payroll, doing the you

164know, doing a lot of the components. We have a lot of shared um well, Mike and and I and Stephanie and Charles, we see all the purchase orders. We see all the pay wrecks. We know you know, we we've implemented as much of the state contracting that we can and all the department heads work their darnedest to work with all the consortium contracts. We're participants of Omnia, Sourcewell, BuyBoard, NASPO. The list goes on. MHEC, the the Kra AEPA contract, the Kra portal, the Kra portal, the CCM portal, the CCM membership. We utilize as many state and federal contracts, consortium contracts that we possibly allowed to. State contracts are are excellent sources. Um a lot of the main components like I got I got I eat like a Perfect Temp. Those people are they're shared entities.

165There's certain companies that are you you know, the people have long-standing relationships with either the town or the board and their knowledge of that industry as well as that they may be the state whole state contractors. And state contractors there are some also there's numerous at times there's numerous vendors. So, we may have a state contractor, they may have a state contractor, but they are they're they're serving the the the the venue. Um many times the department heads I know that the public works will talk to Bob, Bob will talk to public works. IT will talk to each other. You know, so it's we do work together well. The I mean the Board of Ed and the town, we work all the time together and and really and really try to strive. We we often

166utilize the you know, the the these these portals, these consortium contracts, these these unified agreements to to keep the cost down, to keep the cost as well. That's why we had done such a great job with with having electricity for those years during the COVID period where we had locked in agreements and and they really really strive. So, I I I I don't want you know, I I I know costs are high this year. I think costs are high in everything we all do and you know, we're always open to additional improvements as as all of us will try to do. But just know that you know, the the the team here works hard to minimize the cost. We try to follow every every policy and procedure that we can we can try to follow

167and really work to get the best pricing that we can. So, I you know, I just want to say that you know, we you know, we've you know, the the team here we really work hard to to get this to get you the product that we can do for best for the town as well as you know, getting it in good shape. So, I'm just swelling. No, no. And And I got to say Tom, I got to thank you personally for all the help that you've done not only on this budget, but all the budgets before. You've been here for a while. You've seen a lot of the numbers over the years and we've worked really hard to make this a better town. So, I appreciate your help. I appreciate everyone that came here tonight

168and sat through this thing over the last two nights that we've had and have paid attention and worked on the budget. So, thank you very much Dr. Britton. Thank you for you and Laurel and your team in putting together and Bob and everyone here for your help in getting this together. This I think is a collective budget. We've all worked hard on this. We have two new members here. We have other members that have been here before. Uh we have a lot of collective brain power up here that is um that has done nothing but try to get the best uh value for the town in every way we can. Um I love this town and I just love the fact that we pull together like this. So, again, hats off to everyone. Um I'm

169glad we're able to to put this together. I feel comfortable with this. Um again, we'll get this. We'll look at it. We have a couple weeks to digest and get feedback from residents, but you're watching, I hope that they have seen us really do everything we can to get this number down to the lowest possible we can and I feel at the end of the day I'm going to sleep good tonight knowing that we did that. So, thank everyone up here for your help in putting this together. I really appreciate that. So, uh with that being said, I make a motion. That was really quick. Second. Any seconds? All those in favor? Aye. Post abstention. We are we are done tonight.