001Good evening everyone. It's six o'clock. I'd like to start our special meeting tonight to discuss school facility plan. Let's rise for pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. >> Well, very good. All right. Um, so I've called this special meeting to order to discuss the school renovation project plan, school facility plan, and and the renovation project. Um we have over the last especially week or two we have we have been diving into all the numbers. We've reviewed the committees. Uh we've had a tremendous amount of discussion and talk about this. I've spoken to each one of you individually to various levels about the plan. I've
002answered questions about it. Um we're at the point now where we have the costs identified what each school is. Uh we have those solid. Uh we also just very recently uh I was a couple minutes late today. I was on on the phone with a financial analyst that's handling this, David Eisenthal, in terms of all the the details of the funding um how we pay for this. So, what I'm hoping today to start off with is to have David Eisenthal, he should be online and he'll be doing a presentation on the numbers as uh to outline to everyone. He's available for questions today. He's the one footballing this one as he's football our last referendum. So, he understands the town. He knows um what we do, how we do it. He's he's familiar with our
003existing bond debt. So uh so we've been discussing with him uh at great lengths over the last two weeks. I see Dr. Britain in the audience as well. He's been part of the same process. Um I understand what an important pro um what an important project this is. There's been a lot of discussion over the years and we're to the point now where we've got to put you know uh rubber on the road and and make a decision on this. So tonight is part of that process. It's not the end process because we still have um a few more things that have to wrap up. But we effectively have the costs and uh the cost of the project and the bond cost. Uh we just have to layer in what are the offsetting variables on
004that savings for um reduction in staff um uh increases in brand new place and in the Nordic spa what impact that is. It's not in the grand list numbers that that are here. Um so there are some things that will potentially offset some of these costs but again in transparency I want everyone to know what the numbers are. I want people to ask questions. If you're watching this on video after the meeting, reach out to us in the town and we're happy to provide any material that you want. Again, it's too big of a project. As I've told everyone here, this is a once in a generation opportunity. I believe with this school project, we are at the point of expanding our business base significantly with two of the big projects in town. We've added
005Bird on recently. Uh we're in a growth spurt and that allows us more flexibility than had this been 20 years ago when we did the middle school high school project. uh there wasn't as much growth back then. Um but we're in a better position now. So at the end of this meeting before we adjourn, what I'm looking for is obviously feedback from everyone on the on the on the board here. Um and what I' what I'd like to have is at the end of this um I'd like us to vote to move whatever the final numbers are, whatever whatever the project is forward to let the voters decide. We're very close on all of the numbers. Uh this will explain both ends of it. Uh Dr. Dr. Britain's here to talk about the costs if
006we need to to go over any of the costs again. Um, but that's what I'd like to get done today and if we can move that forward to a vote uh for the residents of Portland to decide, that's ultimately what I'd like to do. So, um, are there any other questions before we start? Concerns, comments? No. All right. Um, Nick, if you could get David up on screen or someone. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me? >> No, we can't hear you. >> Huh? Well, >> try it again, David. >> Uh, how how is it now? >> Not yet. >> Okay. Um, >> hold on one second, David. Hold on one second. >> You're trying now, David. >> Okay. Can you hear me now? >> We can. >> There we go. Okay. So,
007>> thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> If you could introduce yourself, give a little background about you and your relationship with the town, uh, so people know what you've done with us before and and then >> Sure. Sure. So, my name is David Eisenthal. I'm a vice president and senior fiscal adviser with Unibang Fiscal Advisory Services. Um, we are municipal adviserss. We work with cities and towns throughout New England. We have worked with the town of Portland for about 10 years. Uh we worked on the 2018 bond issue that financed the park and some other um capital back uh in the summer of 2018, fiscal 19. Uh and have worked with uh the town since then on uh some lease financings and another loan um more recently. And most recently we were asked to uh develop
008some financing projections for uh proposed school projects the Valley View Gildersleeve and then the secondary school smaller secondary school projects. So um Mr. Chairman do you want me to share my screen so that I can uh show what the the analysis looks like? >> Yes. Yes, please. That would be great. Everyone has a copy of what you sent. >> Okay. I am going to need assistance in uh sharing my screen. >> You're about to be allowed. You're now you should be able to do it now. >> All right. Let's try that. Uh okay. So, um we're starting uh and this is something that uh uh the chair and uh uh Mr. Robinson, the finance director, and I discussed uh in within the last hour. Um this is sort of an overall presentation, and what I'll
009do is I'll go from here to um some of the underlying numbers. But what we're do, what this shows here is um the debt service. This is uh this column here, column C is the outstanding debt service. This is the debt service on the bonds that were issued in 2018. Uh this column shows projected debt service on the um school project and we've come up with some offsets. Um I mean as you know motor vehicle uh taxes are limited to the 32.46 mills. So effectively new debt service could not be passed along excuse me in the mill rate. But uh it's our understanding that with the uh particularly the new Brainer Place project that there may be some uh significant number of new motor vehicles which would add revenue to the um to the finances
010of the town. So we we add this offset of $200,000 a year. Uh as a >> Can you just uh can you just back up just like 10 seconds? What was the just so we understand the columns that way we could follow you more intelligently. The outstanding debt is >> the outstanding debt is the 2018 bond issue. >> Huh? >> The high school is all paid off. >> The high school is paid off. >> So it's just the park. >> It's just the park at this point. The park and some other uh capital that was financed in 2018. >> Okay. Um the projected this is the uh school the set of school projects the proposed school projects. Um we have offsets $200,000 a year uh motor motor vehicles. Um, it's our understanding that, and there
011may be some different ways of looking at this, but that the Portland public schools could realize uh an initial savings of $900,000 in operations uh related to the implementation of the project. This uh manner of looking at it basically says that those pro those positions uh and those expenses come out of the budget and are are available to offset debt service. sort of going forward. Uh we sort of capped this at a million dollars a year uh thinking that perhaps at some point the um the schools would be back looking for additional new positions or new spending. So this column here, column K is the net. It's you add the uh these numbers and then you know these subtract these negative numbers uh to come up with this net to be raised and uh the
012maximum here is a little less than $3 million uh when all of the offsets are factored in. We um look at the net grand list. This does not include motor vehicles, but these numbers uh basically came from the town assessor. And uh you see the the fairly large increase $250 million in 2028 reflecting the uh revaluation that is expected to take um effect at that time. So then what we did is we projected out the mill rate uh effect um the the net to be raised uh compared to the net grand list. Obviously as the net grand list increases that m that um uh reduces the effective impact compared to what it would be if the grand list was uh uh stable uh not going up. I we then uh look at change from the
013from next year. You're working on the fiscal year 2027 budget. Um you know is our understanding the net grand list is the 872 872.7 million. Um the uh outstanding debt service is 733,000. That's 084 mills on uh what we you know what we understand is a you know 37 mil um projected tax rate. So that's that's the proportion of the um um but of the of the levy that is uh um uh taken up with debt service. So what we then did is we said uh from fiscal year 27 here's the change in the mill rate um and the the peak here um this 2.62 62 ms is 1.78 MS higher than the84 mills which which result for for every $100,000 of valuation that's $178 uh uh of impact. Uh we were asked to then
014say per day what is that $178 per day. I mean that's with 365 days a year that that's about 49 cents a day. So we were we were asked to produce that impact. Um Mr. Chairman, do you want me to pause here for questions? >> Well, let's see if we have any. >> Yes, we will have some questions. So when so the uh the 1128 that's basically a revaluation and then when does Brainer and Nordic Spa where do we start seeing that? >> Yeah, I I think uh the chairman Mr. Chairman, I think you you and I were discussing this earlier that uh really uh this does not include uh much I mean one of the complications with Brainard Place is you have a tax abatement agreement that will uh which I don't think is
015even really um I don't think the I think there's a little bit of the uh Brainard valuation in here but uh given the fact that a lot of this uh valuation won't be available for taxation for several um that you know I think that this this is a rough uh approximation of the effect o over time and in fact is probably a little bit conservative the further you go out and our understanding is that this does not include Nordic Spa which is the other major project that that the valuation from that project is not included here. So this may actually uh understate the increase in the net grand list and therefore overstate the the mill rate impact. >> Absolutely. I mean, I would think for for an absolute fact, I mean, we here we are,
016you know, we got Nordic spot coming in. We talk about it. We got Brainer Place, which is the biggest construction in the history of Portland. And I I think we absolutely got to put it in there. And if they got an abatement of what is it, five years, six years, >> seven years, but the abatements on the structures, which means the personal property and the actual land improvements themselves are not abated, >> which Okay. >> which was part of the complication. So, they're just working on >> that should be in here, >> right? That that's and that's an addition and that's why there there's been a lot of moving parts the last couple days and that's one of the things that our assessor has been working on because it's not only personal property but also
017um Jersey Mike and some of the new places coming in. So, he's factored that in. It's it's a Rubik's cube a financial Rubik's cube at his end. >> No, no, I get it. But what what I what I in there >> what I Well, it should be it needs to be added in as as an extra factor right now. But the one that's up there includes everything but that. >> Yep. which which means that that becomes one of the ones that should reduce down the net effect. So right any other questions >> do you all right continue on >> so I'll go to this is a little the debt service for the uh school project in a little bit more detail. Um we have we're assuming two bond issues. there's going to be a bond
018anticipation note issue in there. And then um it's our understanding that the um the state uh you know there's major um reimbursement um coming from the state for this this project but the problem is that there will be retainage um that will come in uh se you know a number of years after completion of the project. Actually I believe that Frier architecture is thinking 5 years after project completion. So the solution that uh bond council suggested was that uh when the projects end the um retainage would be financed with what are called GANs or grant anticipation notes. And the and these are the expected issuance and um interest costs of those GANs uh that would be uh paid by the town on the mill rate until such time as the u uh reimbursement retainage uh
019is comes in. So that's uh uh we're looking at Yeah. And I think that these numbers the uh we may not have adjusted the grand list consistently. Did we Oh, I'm not sure. We Oh, you know what we didn't do is we didn't. This is this These are gross number. I'm just looking at this. These are gross numbers. So, this is this would be the mill rate impact without the offsets. So, it would be 3.05 mills. Uh but that's without the offsets that we uh listed on the prior page. Should I pause here? Mr. Chairman. >> Uh, yes. Let's check for questions. Bobby, it looks like you have one. >> I was just wondering, I don't know what the third page is in the graph. Uh, with the cost per $100,000, what is that a
020percentage increase each year? >> Uh, are you looking um this column here, column S? >> Uh, yes. I mean, it's a dram, you know, on a percentage basis, the uh 2029, it's a it's a considerable increase because you're going from um >> $18 over current payments uh to $178. >> Yeah. >> And that's per that's per 100,000 of valuation. So, um, to the extent that you you're talking about a property that is multiples of that, you would have to multiply, uh, this by whatever, you know, if there were $500,000, it would be this number times five. Mr. Chairman, do are there any other questions? Did I um did I through you, Mr. Chairman, did I address your question, Bob? Did that help did that question? No, but what what kind of clarification could be helpful?
021>> What is the percentage increase like on that that year for 2029? How much would that be up from >> percentage increase versus on the >> what they're paying now? >> What they're pay in terms of dollar dollars itself? >> Because that's what people are going to ask. They're going to say, "What is this going to cost me every year?" They're not going to be able to pull out a calculator and say, "This is my assessment. This is how much more it's costing me." They're just going to want to know, okay, it's >> how much more is it? >> 6% more in 27, 8% more in 28 and so on, >> right? >> It's easier for someone to understand it that way. >> 100%. And I think if I could jump in what for one
022moment, Mr. So yeah, so the numbers these numbers with the highlighting on there are the numbers that reflect just the bond cost and on the right side it's highlighted the actual mill rate just for the cost of the bonds without anything else without any other factors savings um reductions of hanging out. So the the first page that he went over reflected some of those um some of those I guess tailwinds things that would make a dis. So, uh, it included the outstanding bonds that we already have from the Route 17 park. Um, also the motor vehicles. >> So, that's where the new numbers come. The only additional big number that is in here, and again, this is this is being worked on now, is what the difference is with Brainard and Nordic. Um the numbers
023that uh that Rich went through earlier today uh tell tells that it's going to reflect about close to a million dollars a year in additional revenue that's not reflected in here. But he wanted to make sure and confirm before he put anything out there. He's being very conservative. He knew that we would be talking about this and he's being extra cautious to make sure that they're conservative. They make sense and um and then he would apply that last number. So um he worked on we spoke to him right before we came over here. who's on the call with myself and David uh just to confirm some of the other numbers in there, but that one um that one we will have tomorrow to layer into this. So with that, let's assume it's close to a
024million dollars >> between Nordic and Brainer between wasn't reflected in here that would be about a million dollar reduction, but he wanted to confirm it because he he was calculating as as the tax abatement rolls through and as the buildings come online with with the other commercial space. Do we know the escalation of how that is going to increase over time? I mean, it's not it's not going to stay a million dollars a year over the next 10 years >> when up until seven >> up until an hour. Yes. And then but then the abatement at that point it's just a percentage increase on the whole then becomes part of the whole project. It's fully in. >> Do we know what that number is? That's that that's what he's working that he has the he
025has the first five or six years >> and in fact one of the big I think the a million one year is on where if you look on >> page one of the seven I think we hit 3.05 as the no rate with just the bond cost just with this um that year it spikes over um over a million dollars on the revenue back from Brainard and the spa. So part of this is going to be kind of building to that and spiking higher and then once the abatement is over. But again, I'm deferring that to Rich. He wanted to make sure that the numbers uh were were layered and proper. He knows everyone's watching and paying attention to this. So um so he was double-checking his numbers today to make sure. But yeah, that
026has to be added into it. So >> yeah, Mr. Chairman. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. Um I want to answer the uh the member's question. I think in a way that I think will be meaningful. Uh the member asked about um the increase and I think the most meaningful way to talk about it is um you have a mill rate change of 1.78% from 2027 to 2030. Um I my understanding is that the projected mill rate for the coming year is 37.19 mills. So assuming that that is ultimately the mill rate um the 1.78 uh mil increase would represent about 4.8% above uh the the coming year. Um and I hope that now I would say though that that does not account for uh changes in particular residential values. residential values may increase uh
027between now and 2030 which could affect what uh taxpayers would pay. But holding values constant um the debt service the peak year is uh produces a mill rate that is uh 4.8% higher than uh the projected 2027 mill rate. >> Correct. I mean actually we were doing some homework before this and I I kind of am directionally correct with that. I I agree. Uh I think Bobby what you were kind of getting at is is >> if there was a column there that says what is the year-over-year increase from prior year and maybe a a cumulative Yeah. >> Right. So it would be so it would be I'm making up this number now but it would be year one and it's going to be 2%. Then it's going to be hey then year over year
028it's going to go up another 5% in total. you're and then people can kind of just watch it. At some point it'll go to zero, right? It'll be there will be no increase. >> Yeah, we'll we'll see the increase and then we'll see the correct. >> Exactly. >> Mr. Chairman, uh yeah, I think that in general once you get to 2030, fiscal year 2030, in most years after that, the mill rate increase uh goes down. uh it'll actually because we're talking level debt service and that's really as a result of the 2018 issue when you get out to uh fiscal year 43 um I mean the the debt service is about $3.1 million and then you have the offsets out that far um but really it sort of flattens out there but once you get
029to the peak in 2030 the assumption is that the impact at least on the mill rate will start going down once you get to the peak. >> It is it fair to say that the peak is driven by uh the amount of money that we need to borrow bond because of the um delay in payment I guess from the state. We're holding on to that. >> No, it's more uh so I'm going to I'm going to skip to what we are assuming for issuances. Uh we're assuming um that if this passes and maybe what I should do first is I'm going to this may not be legible. Uh maybe I can >> do that. There you go. >> Uh so um problem is then showing what the cash flow looks like across uh let me
030see if I can maybe still get this Uh is that still readable? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So this was provided by Frier Architecture. Uh you have the project costs reimbursements on an ongoing basis. Uh and then retainage. Um, and you can see this, you know, we're starting if this uh um passes in uh we we're talking about um expenses uh being incurred in pretty short order. So, the way that this works, here's the value view project reimbursement retainage, Gildersleeve, project reimbursement retainage, and the secondary school is the same thing. And at this right column, that's the total net cash flow that the town will need to satisfy. And you know, I was talking before about there's $9 million in retainage for the Valley View project uh that Frier is estimating won't be available until 2034.
0312 point almost $2.5 million in retainage for Gilder sleeve that's received in 2036. So it's really to satisfy I'll go back actually I'll go to this one. Here is how we look at this. Here is that net spending uh column that I showed you before. And then here are the borrowings. We're assuming that in June of um 27 uh the town will need to borrow 22.9 million just for project costs. Now that's not the entire borrowing because although actually it may end up being uh the entire borrowing but we are programming in conservatively the costs of issuance and a contingency um that would be we're assuming would be borrowed in 27 23.015 million um followed a year later by um bond anticipation notes. That's a one-year instrument that would be taken out by the by
032this 2029 issue. Uh 6.895 million and then uh an issue of 22.685 uh million uh go bonds in 2029. Starting also in 29 would be annual grand anticipation notes. The 9 million 35,000 and the 2,484500. Um actually that would start in 2031 after the Gildersleeve project is done. But um the uh the town would be issuing those grand anticipation notes every year from uh 2029 until 2035. Um and that we are assuming that the costs of issuance of those notes and the interest would be this far right column here which is shown here on the projected debt service. um the town does not have the uh the cash flow to avoid doing this short-term borrowing during that period between when the project is done and the retainage is received. So that's why we are assuming
033that uh the town would be issuing grant anticipation notes annually during that period. So um the sources and uses uh we're you know project costs 108.171 million we have um additional costs uh issuance costs 226,000 um capitalization we're assuming that the interest on the bands that are issued that's bond anticipation notes I should avoid the uh um jar bargain here, bond anticipation notes. We're assuming that the interest on that um ban issue in fiscal year in 2028 when it comes due in 2029 will be financed from the proceeds of the 2029 bond issue. And then we have some contingency in there. The um total uh of both sources and uses uh is 108.7 million. uh we know that there are grants of 63 uh million, a little more than that. And so that means that
034the town would be borrowing $45.7 million. Um and I'll just show this is the grand list that the assessor provided. What we did is we here's the projected net value that the the assessor provided. We made some assumptions about motor vehicle assessments because again those the uh mill rate is limited to the 32.46 mills. So the relevant column is this uh net of motor vehicle which we see here and here although we add in for 27 we started in 28 uh showing the uh analysis for the uh for debt service on the schools. So, Mr. Chairman, uh, do you have any other questions? Uh, or do members have any other questions? >> Um, what is the total payback for the town's cost for the 45 million we're borrowing? >> Um, 79 million. 79.5 million. Although
035that includes that also includes the grant anticipation notes. So um if you don't include the grant anticipation notes it's uh 70 um 77 million principal and interest. >> The rate that you calculated for this I believe was 4.5%. >> That's correct. >> Is is that a conservative number and based on your experience with other towns doing similar projects? Um, >> it is conservative. >> Okay. >> And >> I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. >> And for a town like ours, you've done uh you've done work in other towns and whatnot. Um, how does this bond cost fit with the budget that we have? I mean, there's a lot of concerns from people watching and listening about whether we can afford this or not and and can we can we shoulder this load and still have some extra
036um you know ability to do other projects should they come up. How would you consider this as a load on the town in terms of the total dollars as well as percentage of our town and given some of the anticipated growth as well? I know it's a big question but that's that's something people are looking to get an answer for. You know, I think that that's, you know, a policy choice, uh, how much, um, and really for each voter how much they want to take on an additional taxes to have, um, improved, um, educational infrastructure. Um I think uh you know I don't think uh it really uh the numbers are not um I guess are not outrageous but that's that's really not for me to say. Um it's really for the voters of the
037town for well for in the first instance it's for the board of selection to decide and the um and the voters of the town. I don't know. That may be a little bit of a weasel answer, but uh I think that you're t you're going to policy uh discussion. >> I guess I guess >> I I'll I'll ask it in a slightly different way. And and I understand that too. I think every town has to decide what's important to them. And I would like to think that Portland based on all the work we've done with the committees, you know, is interested in having a good school system, draw people in town, etc. Um, as a as a more financial question, um, our town finances as they are, uh, this is something that is manageable by
038the town. Um, it doesn't put us in any red redline categories. Um, as as you look at the numbers, I know other towns have done bigger bonds around us, Weathersfield and others, um, you know, that are comparable as a percentage of their budget versus ours. Um, but but I know that's a question that, uh, just just your your your professional insight into that would be helpful. Well, so the town is currently rated double A+ by S&P Global ratings. Um, and I don't know that I would think that this I don't think that this necessarily puts pressure on the rating. Um, you know, and with the double A+ rating, uh, I think you would have, um, good market access. Um, and if I mean really the the the interest levels will depend on what uh the
039bond market looks like at the given time that you borrow. Uh, if you were borrowing this now for 25 year issue as a double A+ rated uh uh entity, you would be probably a little bit below 4% at this point. Um, so that that's where I see this uh landing in terms of the finances. >> Okay. Okay. What I've tried to do through this whole process is make sure that the numbers we have are conservative. Um, we're not, you know, we're not trying to sell this to the town, but we're trying to make sure that people know we're trying to get the best value for this, but we don't want any any unpleasant surprises, extra cost. We underestimated what the cost would be or reimbursement. So, so this is this is helpful. >> Uh, hey
040Dave. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, let me just walk something through, right? So, let's just fast forward to uh 2037, right? So, let uh Okay. Which when we start getting into a steady state, it's basically about $3.1 million of debt service, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. We have about a million dollars coming out uh from uh from Charles from basically uh overhead reduction because we're going from three elementaryaries to two. So that's 3.1 minus one. Just follow me out. There's a million dollars in there right now that is not part of the math. Correct. in incremental revenue. um yet for >> now the in now the million dollars if that reflects revenues that are going to be um abated and then not abated later then yes that's that's possible but it's a little bit complicated
041>> right now >> there's a million coming in the door right now Michael right >> um the total >> 600 700 >> last year we got 400 something thousand without without uh without Nordic Spa um so he'll have those calculations >> cuz if it if it's a like a million dollars if you will before uh over between now and when we start this all starts kicking in with an incremental let's just say 1.1 million between now and 10 years from now when this goes to steady state isn't it almost a a wash >> well so what these are refle so we're looking at major increases in the grand list so if you look at 2037 we're assuming a grand list that's a little over $1.4 billion. And so, you know, the million dollar in additional
042revenues, uh it may not be um all of it may not be in here, but uh the the additional some of the additional revenues would be in here, but I think that's a refinement that I think uh we will be before as we go along quickly uh will be making. But I don't know if we're talking about a million dollars in additional real estate taxes. >> So, okay, that'll never be the the two point. It'll never come up to two is what you're saying between Nordic and everything else that's happening at Brainard. >> I mean, if the uh if in fact >> got to look at that, right? >> Absolutely. >> And then the uh when we talked about how the revaluations uh let's face it, right? That's a tax increase. Yeah, >> right. I
043mean, we could could, you know, we can go through the the percentages and all that, but a re-evaluation, unless the mill rate comes down to to make it even if I'm paying 10 grand, the only way that that doesn't turn into it is I'm paying 10 grand in taxes, and I'm still paying 10 grand in taxes. But those are big numbers. I think we absolutely got to include that in the next round. What we're talking about. Absolutely. >> Yeah. The other year over year that Bobby talked about. >> Yeah. I think that'll be easier. And I think the other thing that'll be easier if we can get a copy of this >> right >> in Excel format right >> so we can actually see >> right >> how some of the numbers are coming out
044you know behind the scenes >> y agreed yeah I can talk with uh um the chairman and with uh Tom about that >> and I don't know who would wear the hat or share the hatw wearing on this but between David and Tom and Mike I appreciate David all the information that you put forward but Um, speaking for one of my selectmen down the other end of the table, I think it's important that we somehow boil this down from college level mathematics and accounting to something that the average person can digest in a pretty short manner. I don't know if that's possible, but >> so if I if I could jump in. So I also brought some of the work that the committee is working on to exactly do that distill this down. So let
045me pass this One second, David. This are our samples. They still have to put the final numbers in, but you're exactly right. These are the sheets and liars that they're put in there. This is a trifold right here. Pass that down. >> So, they are looking to distill down because otherwise it's just a barrage of numbers. Mhm. >> And I say, but whatever numbers are included in these flyers, >> the the outliers that we've identified tonight that aren't included yet in that number need to be reflected in these two. >> And that's what and that's what we're working on, right? We're we're we're we're getting those last ones, but uh this because it does need to be distilled down to something that can go into the riveries that someone can look at and it it
046quickly describes what the costs are, what it is, uh the impact for them themselves, what it costs per day, per family, per per voter, whatever the case is going to be. >> Okay. So, on this trifold on the back half of it, that's what the taxpayer impact projection what you're talking about. >> Yeah. And these are placeholders as well. Like these these were we had a meeting on this this morning. Uh Dave was in there as well. we were looking at these numbers and what we need to adjust. Um, but this is what it's going to ultimately boil down to. I know Dave, you can't see that, but they're creating a flyer and a sheet that has the detailed numbers that are just simplified for residents. So, I'll send you a copy so you can
047see it as well, but we're working on it earlier today. >> Yeah. And I think these are a little bit um higher than because I don't I don't think these include all the offsets. >> They do not. So that's and that's why we want to make sure that everything's in there because ultimately it's a somewhat complicated process because we've got growth, we've got real dollars coming in, we have interest rates that are a little bit higher in this. There's a lot of things in there. But collectively, and I think all of us have the same at a minimum, this is up to the voters to decide. But I think collectively for anyone that's either been on one of the commissions or has been paying attention to this, we need to do something with the schools.
048I think we have the best plan possible right now based on all the input from a lot of smart people in town and also have to be aware that we're taking the million dollars in savings from the board of ed closing schools, the two largest developments in town, >> and it's all going to this, >> right? >> So, we're going to be living status quo for the next 20 years and just relying on homeowners to keep funding the town and paying all the taxes. I think they're part of the equation. We have to decide how much that is and whether we have bonding opportunities if something else comes up. For example, I know we're talking the water and sewer about work that's got to be done down there. Now, that would be paid by the
049water users. It would directly affect us, but >> that's still something we have to think about. So, collectively, that's all part of the equation. So, um >> David, thank you very much for this. I'm going to check if there's any other questions in the audience that might have posed David. No. Okay. Do you want me to stop sharing? And >> um does anyone want any view any more of the numbers that he has up there? >> I think most of it is just discussion amongst us now. Right. I'm good with everything else. >> David. >> Yeah, I'm fine. >> Thank you. That's enough. >> Okay. Anyone else in this side? >> Sure. >> And Dr. Anything that you wanted to ask about. >> All right. David, I really appreciate all your help. Thank you very
050much. If you want it, you're welcome to listen in. If you want to hear some of the discussion and if you hear something that you might want to comment, you're welcome to do that. We should We're only going to go another uh 15 minutes, maybe 10 minutes. >> I I will I'll I will listen in. I'll close my uh audio and video. >> Okay, beautiful. All right. Thank you very much. So, so anyways, we have we have one more step to do in terms of confirming the numbers. Um my apologies to the board that it has taken this long. We didn't get the final cost numbers not that long ago and we've been making sure that every number we have is accurate and above above any issues. So we uh so the last the last
051number we need to plug in is the brain and and the spawn numbers which we're very comfortable with so far and um how that's going to impact this and then we we need and then we'll come back and we'll be able to discuss the details and present to the town. I know Charles already has appointment set up for next Tuesday to invite people. Is it at Valley View or Gilders next? >> Monday, Monday. So, so there's already discussion out there. So, we will have this. We're going to print this information up. I will share it with everyone here once we get the numbers of course. Um, but what I'd like to ask and first of all, let's maybe do a quick run. Um, are there any questions that anyone has in specific or any comments
052on this? Ultimately, I think we need to put it to the vote once we get the numbers. Um, so I'd like to do that. We are targeting May 11th as the date right now, but we're not setting that officially. Um because once we set the date in a voter selection meeting, then the quiet period starts. But that's the target date right now is May 11th. It's a short amount of time. A lot has to happen. I understand. I know Bobby's very concerned about that because we should have been doing this six months ago, but we have it. We're kind of at the deal hand that we have right now. My only concern I brought up at the laugh meeting is we know that it's the high school middle school is in the range of $18
053million. >> The $10 million that we're leaving out like is that needs or is that wants? And if it's needs, how are we coming up with that $10 million? >> What's the plan for that? Right. >> Yeah. Well, I think I think my because I had a similar in other words, what's the projection was is the initial amount of money I know for the ventilation, you know, for the HVAC and the roof, >> right? >> You know, I assume that that was the most immediate needs and then are the next those next dollars are those things that are projected out as needs over the next 5 to 10 years >> or are those things that are immediate needs now that we're not addressing? I think that's it'd be good to understand those buckets >> because
054that's the thing. I can't see going to the the residents and saying, "Okay, we need to take a a $45 million loan >> and then in five or six years say, "Okay, we need $10 million more." Now, >> right. >> My my understanding in talking with with Bob Sheay was he felt it could be done with with uh with with maintenance and capital improvements money alone. He like he it didn't sound like he was concerned that he didn't have more money. he would have asked for more. He thought these are things that he could handle on a year-to-year basis. But what I will do is I will bring him back or or at least have all of us be able to talk to Bob. We'll we'll do it two at a time. But I think
055asking him and making sure that that box gets checked, I think is really important, Bob. >> Yeah. And and Mike, do me I think too for this good for this board to know we want to make sure that we're not double booking the savings, right? In other words, we want to make sure is the board of ed comfortable that they have the monies to do those other needs because they're anticipating $900,000 a year in savings, operational savings, and now we're looking at that same $900,000 as an offset, right? >> We're now double booking that. We got to make sure that we're we're all looking at this correctly. >> I I agree. I agree. Oh, please just just go on up there and you got to say your name and your address and Glad you're saying
056something. >> Uh uh I'm Dick Lton. I live on uh 331 Cox Road, Portland. Uh I wanted to ask you what the May 11th was. Is that when you're trying to bring the vote to the town? >> So May 11th is the town vote on the budget. We're also going to be working on the budget um to get that approved by residents. So that's the vote on the town budget. Um, often a referendum will go on the budget because more people are coming out and they get a chance to vote on both of those. So, that's the target date right now. Uh, and that's when you will come out and either say yes or no to this project and same thing with the budget. >> Now, with everything going on, uh, that isn't something you
057can put off a little bit longer so people can, you know, >> so, so that's a good question. Um, we've had people that have said that seems like a really rushed date, right? There's a lot to get out there. There's a lot to do. Um the dilemma is if we do it separately by itself, let's say we do it in first or second week in June, um we need to get at least 20% of the population out 20% of the voters. So we have about 7,100 voters. So we need about 1,450 people to come out. Um people tend not to vote that often where they don't come out in in mass for something like this. So even though let's say everyone voted a thousand people voted for it, but it wasn't enough, it wasn't the
05820%, it wouldn't pass. So that's part of the calculus. Now, now I've talked to a number of I think I've asked everyone that's willing to to answer the question. What would they prefer? And most of the people are saying May 11th seems to be the one, especially if the budget that we put together as a board. We have to do that is a budget that you as a as a taxpayer would vote yes on. Um getting a favorable budget means that we'll probably get a favorable response from this as well. Um so so that's part of the calculation. Um we have built in two different days in early June as a backup. Um, but but that's that's why we're Yeah, Amy from May 11th though, but you're not the only one asking about that. I'm
059glad you did because if someone's listening, uh, that's part of it. Now, I think that most people that know the details of the project are in favor of it because when they hear the numbers and affordability and know what the offsets are, it's something that makes sense. And the biggest thing we didn't talk about tonight, and I know Charles, we'll we'll probably hammer it next week and onward is because of the reimbursement, right, we're getting back from the state, we're getting a ridiculous percentage off from the state. Um, it's tax money, but it's tax money that the town is going to use for a project in town rather than another one. So, for example, on one of the schools, Valley View, I don't know if you grew up in town or not. >> I did.
060>> So, Valley View, >> I never went to Valley View. >> Yeah. But nice school, but it needs a lot of work, but that one we're getting almost 75% reimbursement rate. So, for the cost of the school, um, the town only is on the hook for the I think 12 million. Is that the number? >> We're taking that. So gets it's it's a small percentage to get a brand new school that is energy efficient. It's safer given the climate right now. Uh the parking is fixed. I mean there's a number of things that get done and we have we'll have minimum um uh capital improvements to do on it for the next 20 25 years because it'll be renovated to new. Uh it almost applies to Gilders as well. That's 60% uh reimbursement rate. So
061we get for for a project that costs this much we're getting you know that much percent back. So it's it makes a big difference. Um, and it allows us to do that. So, because of the reimbursement, rate, I feel it's a one once in a generation opportunity. And you couple that with the projects going on. You grew up in town, it was a sleepy town all the time. We've got a lot of project going on down there. We've got the spa, which is another big project. We're in a growth spurt right now. And, you know, we can afford it more now than we could have been if either one of those project were here. >> So, so that's one of the reasons why I think it makes sense, but we still have to explain it.
062Uh, and as Bobby and Vinnie and the rest have said, ultimately we've got to go to you and say after we knock on your door and say, "Please vote for this." Um, we have to say it's going to cost you a dollar a day, right? And is it worth it? A dollar or whatever the number is, a dollar a day for us to have good schools for the kids that the teachers want that are safer for everyone that reduces traffic down. That also gives us brownstone as a school we could do something else with in five years. >> Well, I I do have a couple other comments kind of associated with that. Sure, please. >> More minutes. Yes. >> I I spoke to uh Christy Carpino's office. >> Uh this is a while ago and
063before even all this budget uh stuff went on between the feds, Connecticut. >> Yes. >> Local, but uh uh I guess she shares an office with other representatives, some other representatives. But the person in charge told me that when I asked them,"Well, you know what? How exactly do we get reimbursed for, you know, this large part of the the school project or whatever?" And and she kind of she kind of she said, "I don't know where you got this information from." and she said, "I they're they're not giving out, you know, big monies like that, except maybe maybe if you're a, you know, from one of the big uh, you know, cities or something like that, then they might tend to reimburse more." But she said they're just not giving out the money. And this
064was before all this budget. >> That was before the legislative session. The money is new. >> Yeah. I I can I can tell you that um we have confirmed with this with the state. We've in fact Dr. written. You want to give that a shot? >> Actually, it's Google the state >> public Dr. Brennan, you want to go up there just to explain. Just you can just stay aside for a second. You can stay up there, but that's a good question. I think people probably want to know the answer to that. >> Yes. So, so the state calculates for all towns um how much you're eligible for in reimbursement. Um and they use what's called the Anglic rating, which is the town wealth. Now, I think that Portland's hitting at the right time because you
065see the growth in the town, right? that these things haven't come on board yet. So, if you're in uh let's say Middletown, they'll reimburse you 80%. If you're Glastonbury or Avon, significantly less, right? They they generally speaking, they will reimburse you from somewhere between 20 to 80% of the cost of a a school building project. School building projects are the single largest grant that states make available to towns. If you go on and Google right now, anybody hearing this or watching this or you have the access to the internet, Google Portland Department of Administrative uh services town reimbursement rates. You can see a list of all 169 towns in the state of Connecticut and then it will show you their new construction reimbursement rates. Portland's is 53.9%. Now that's new construction, but renovation to new
066is considered new construction. Now when we apply for the grant, we will put in that this is a renovate to new project and we'll have to make that argument that it's not just alterations, it's renovations to new. For capital projects, you're not reimbured that. The town looks at that as a town responsibility. But for new constructions or renovations to new, they do. But that's a bridge we have to cross after we, you know, submit our our grant application. Then there are two bonuses that the state offers. One's new and that's for prek. So the state's trying to expand prek. In the past, they offered you a 15% reimbursement rate on just space for prek classrooms. The the thing that was amazing to us is they've now expanded that that you get the 15% on the
067entire project, which is fabulous. And then we also have a relationship with Open Choice where we take students from Hartford into the Portland public schools and you're offered up to 10% additional bonus if you reserve 10% of your seats for students from Hartford. We historically have said that we want to reserve 5% of our seats. So we would be eligible for a 5% reimbursement as long as we're filling those 5% of of the seats. So, the 53% new construction reimbursement rate plus the 15% for the o for the um prek plus the 5% for open choice would be what we would be eligible for at Valley View. The 53% plus the 5% because there's no prek at Gildersleeve is what we'd be eligible for at Gildersleeve. >> I'm going to jump in real quick. We
068have about two minutes, but no, but thank you for that. Did that answer your question? >> Uh, it did. >> Okay. Okay. But yeah, we we feel confident with the reimbursement rate. We only spoken to the the folks that that handle that. Um and they're they're fully aware of the project. Um and that's kind of built into what this is. But um I like to think of I mean the state the town gives the state a lot of money through taxes that we have. U this is money coming back to a project somewhere else. So I like the idea of using the money we spent or sent over there to come back to us. So >> I know you got one more question. It looks like you got one more question. >> Open comment. What's
069that? >> Oh, of course. >> Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. >> Um, well, I just want to say if if if there is an increase in the uh in the budget, I mean, in the uh the tax rate, the mil rate, um I I live on a a nice street, a decent street, but but I also have one neighbor that I know of. I don't I don't know all of them, but one neighbor who lives, you know, paycheck to paycheck on a social security, you know, thing and she has to decide what she's going to eat like, you know, basically. So any increase that's going to affect her may affect whether she can keep her house or not. You know, she says most of the money goes towards taxes. >> Yeah, I that's what I had to
070say. >> That's I understand. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you coming out tonight. >> I'll be quick. You got it. >> Thank you. Dave Murphy, 40 Carousel Drive, Portland. Uh Michael and Dr. Britain kind of wanted me to be a second set of eyes on the numbers. Sent them to me the other day. I looked at that and said, "Oh my god, I can't interpret that at all." I'm going to be very honest with you. I I translated into my own spreadsheet and I made it simple for me. I put over 25 years because they're I think we're really underestimating the spa and brainer place. I'm not even considering the bonds coming off of the high school or the park or the million-doll savings. I'm just looking
071at those other two things because you got to realize when you look at it this way, you're making the burden go across all the taxpayers, but the spa and the brainer place are not even part of this, you know? So, that's new revenue. So, my thought was that we've got to back that out of the burden of the debt service. And then what's the true burden on the rest of us taxpayers? Um, and I put 595,000 a year for the spa, which is what I was told was a $16 million evaluation. I started with 400,000 for the car taxes, 800,000 after five years, 1.4 with the, you know, I probably don't have this right, but I wish I had the right numbers, but people have said I'm I'm in the zone. 2.3 million probably from
0722037 on will be the full brainer place. Total of about three million bucks. And I've had people say that my buddy Ben Serb said it's a 2 to3 million when we're all said and done revenue. So if you back that out, which I did, um the mill rate increases are much more palatable for the taxpayers because the spa and the greater place are taking, you know, $3 million of the burden out. So, I looked at my own house over the whole time. It's going to be about $369 a year extra or about $9,900.50 over 25 years for my house. average house, you know, assessment is 250, you know, and I just kept the mill rate, you know, the way it where it is. But it's it's 125 for the first two years and then it's
073another 250ish for that third year where we go up to $3 million for that big that jump. That's why I told Dr. for Britney and even Michael this morning that hey can we manage the bonds or the savings from the school or the projects to make that third year less huge you know less more palatable play with the numbers a little bit so I think that's where a spreadsheet is going to help us get in a room put the numbers down there move stuff around and say where does it make the most sense where do we have the least amount of mill rate impact because we know that third year 2030 when we go to 3 million that's a big big hit. So, what can we do to minimize it? Do we move some projects
074out? Do we move the high school roof to the year after that when we're going to have more revenue? Again, I'm I'm not sure of when the abment stuff is coming off, you know, because it comes off a percentage every year. So, if somebody puts real numbers in here, maybe it's better than I thought in the first, you know, five, six years. So, I'm looking forward to, you know, hopefully you share those with me and I'll I'll put them in here and give you my two cents. >> Tomorrow morning, I'll share them. >> And but >> Dave, your numbers don't even include the sunsetting of the existing debt. No, it doesn't. And just a final note here, just this will this will make sense for a lot of people. >> This costs $79 million. >>
07545 million plus 30 million in interest. >> The spa is going to give us 15 million over that 25 years and Brainer Place is going to give us 50 million in taxes. That's 65 million of the 79 million is going to be paid for by Brainer Place in the spot. These are conservative numbers. So that means us taxpayers have to spend about 15 million bucks over the 25 years. Um, and again, if I do the math with the percentages and everything, it comes out to be very close to that same amount per year. Three 400 bucks, you know, for the average person. >> Again, I think that's that's a different way to look at it. And again, I'll hope in any way I can. >> Absolutely. No, I think that's right. And and I got
076to go back to I'm trying to be conservative, but I don't want to underell this because I think we need it. I think it's it's time. I think that the opportunity is right. I think um the the residents once they understand it will will say yes to this as well. Um but there are there are more upsides than there are headwinds that we have with this thing right now. And the upsides I think I'm probably underelling in terms of values or whatnot. Even today in talking with Richard at the end the other day, um he did not include some of the additional businesses going in that he's got to fill out some of the commercial things and and the personal property and other things that that he is adding to the project itself besides just
077the buildings themselves. So there's other there's other factors there that he feels will add and again it's the biggest project that Portland either has had up until now and may may even have by the time they're done putting this together. So, so when we talk about, you know, I mean, I think we just very quickly just kind of talk about, oh, we'll just send it to referendum and let the voters decide and live in a democracy, but really the bottom line is all of us sitting here, the reason that we're here is because people trust us, >> Right. They want uh they want to hear our opinion. They want to hear what we think. And and there's a reason for that, right? I mean, if you just look around the table, right, we're opinion leaders
078in the town. That's why we're sitting here. And I think it's important that we get the numbers because we're going to get to a point where we're going to have the shut up period, right? Where we can no longer >> right when we talk about we actually set the and do the vote on the referendum. Yes. >> Right. So, and the other thing we have to we're talking about Brainer Place, we're talking about the spa, >> right? >> But we're also talking about a period of 20 plus years, >> right? >> Remember that we have brown fields on the riverfront that we are trying to develop. And I I'm a firm believer that once a spa steps in there, the development of those brownfields is going to happen. Um, as the retail comes in at
079Brainer Place, a lot of what this town is doing right now is positive for future momentum in this town. Absolutely. >> So, you have to somewhat be a little bit of a soothsayer here and you have to look at the future what we're talking about. But, you know, the I look at these schools as any big expense that the average person has, whether it's a car, it's a house, it's your children's college education, you are you're spending more money than you're comfortable spending, and you're trying to find a way to get to that end result for the best dollar possible. And I really think that these these dollars that we're seeing, these reimbursements from the state legislature that they put in there from Department of Administrative Services are this is this is a a windfall
080for towns right now because they know we're all in the same boat. >> Uh and I I I think we just have to provide our taxpayers with the best information possible. Um, and again, the numbers that we're missing here, we've got to clarify this grid and and I appreciate what what we've got here because this information uh has to be clear and understandable for people, but you know, they how do I say this politely? >> They have to step out from the blinders and not look at what you're looking at right now. You have to think about two years, three years, 5 years, 10 years down the road. >> Well, that's the thing. They need to know >> exactly >> what's coming down the road. Right. >> Right. >> and I think Dave has D
081sounds like what Dave's put together maybe gets us more in that direction of some real easy to understand information. >> Absolutely. And that's ultimately what we need to distill down to something we can explain in two or three minutes about what it is, what what are the big challenges moving moving ahead. So I agree. And I and I think when we talk about the abatements at at um Elmrest, right, or Brainard, >> keep it in mind too that they they don't just all fall off on the same day, right? >> Building one has a CO. So an abatement is start, you know, starts in that next year after the CO >> and then it's seven years. So it'll be it flattens that out a little bit. The last building's built, those abatements will hang on
082longer, but the first buildings built, we'll have full revenue on those earlier. So we got to keep all that in mind. 100% 100%. And and like I said, it's probably being underestimated right now, but those are real impacts and and that's part of the reason why Rich is probably up right now. >> Well, it's also conservative to underestimate those, which is good. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. So So listen, um what if if anyone if no one has anything else to say? What I'd like to ask I'd like at least for this board, do we want this to go to referendum whether it's May 11th or a date that we have to choose right after that? Is that the consensus? We're going to have the final numbers. We're gonna want to make sure that we ultimately the
083plan that we that we finally that we get them when we get the final numbers, the goal is we want this to go to referendum for residents to vote. >> Well, I I think I think it should go to referendum because we want to >> get in in this year, >> right, >> with the state to get the percentages that we have. >> Yes. >> But we need >> harder numbers to tell people >> that this is what it is. This is what it's going to cost. This is the percentage, you know, not what we have right now. >> So, I mean, this is a a good starting point, but we need it. >> And Charles, you have a June 30th date, right? >> Right. >> If I remember, >> it's a hard day for
084the the application. Yeah. >> Right. So, absolutely. >> And then for a and then they need it for the by December 31st. Right. >> And then they vote on it like a year from now. >> Yeah. Yeah. With the June 30th >> for June 27th. So, at some point in the fall or winter next year, we get back to you. >> And and of course, at that point, it's lots of discussions between us and them about reimbursement rates and whether this is they're going to classify this as renovates and you know, there's there's a lot of work and we're going to need to hire an architect and get a building committee together. I mean, let's be under no illusion. This is a huge project with lots of moving parts. What's the dream? We get everything
085we want in reimbursement, get a building together committee together, and we come in on time under budget. >> Yeah, I I think we've got to we're going to have to we do need to send this to referendum. I think there's been a lot of great work that's done by multiple committees to get us to this point. We got to firm up the numbers and give people an accurate view of what things are going to look like. And we got to just we got to continue to do it quick. >> It's got to be very simplified. >> It's got to be simplified. It's got to be firm. buyers are nice just have more accurate numbers on it so somebody can just open it up and say >> this is what the cost is going to be
086this is what I'm looking at. We were hoping after the morning meeting to have this uh based on the real numbers, but again the the wild card was the was the >> Dave and I sat for 20 minutes. We were done. We both looking at his spreadsheet. It just you you followed it. Uh it was very good. >> And that's why having the public discussions that we're going to have because people going to have those questions and the ability to articulate that with people in a very clear concise manner is going to be important. >> Got it. So, what I'm going to take away from this, we're going to get the final numbers. We will not have to vote on the final plan until sometime at the end of middle of April because it'll go
087on hopefully May 11th. Um, but I think everyone here consensus is that that's what the goal is. We wanted to get to referendum. We're going to finalize the numbers and get it out there. We will simplify the information. Uh, Charles will be talking to people and by next week on Monday, you'll have these flyers with the accurate information. We will have as a board all that as well. And then from there, it's a countdown to May 11th if that's the date. Um or if we need to do an alter date, but we can we can refine that. But I'd like to I think I'd like to go if I had to choose, I like May 11th. Um we just need all we all need to if we all feel strong about this and we think
088it's the right thing to do, then we all need to get out there and continue educating people on this and get the word out. >> But you're saying so five days from now, like Dr. Britain is the first is the walkth through Monday. >> Next Monday >> at Valley. So F. Yeah. So is the intent that as early as that that these are things that would be available to those people that attended the walkthrough. So we need these to be available and accurate in 5 days. Right. >> But that's what I'm saying. And we we we were trying to finalize it this morning and we we had a wrench in the system with the brain. >> Yeah. because to everybody's point um you know and I appreciate things and like the work that you know
089Dave has done to some of because we all know like this I was totally overwhelmed by this totally >> so I'll admit that it's big map you know and and this is great and that's what you know guys like that do but this is what >> people need um you know absolutely to >> it h it has to be something like this it has to be simple >> we need it broken down to its simplest form so anyone can pick it up and say yes, I want this or no, I don't. >> So, something else as well I didn't mention. So, they've also created a website that you can go to that also has all this details in there. So, that will be made live once all the numbers are there. So, they have the
090website, they have the flyers, um there will be a lot of information. There will be inserts. So, there'll be a lots of versions of this that will get out to different places, posters if we need to. So, we have a lot of uh we have a lot that's going to be out there, but again, step right now is making sure it's all accurate. Can I just ask because I didn't look over both of those fully because we just got them tonight. Is there anything in there that says, you know, that we're it's taking a million dollars in savings from the board of ed and we're pretty much taking all of our future tax revenue to put to this because I don't want people to think, oh yeah, we can afford this then in a few
091years we have the revenue from brain replacement. No, you don't. It's already planned that our two big projects, we're taking a lot of the tax revenue for this. >> Well, and and that's a good point because the other part of that is is if you take those two out, what's the growth of everything else? Bird on expanding other businesses coming in. That also is on a quicker trajectory from now for the next 20 years than it was since 20 2000 to now. So, that's a good question. People are going to want to know that that has to be chat that question. Like I I don't want to add a lot to your plate between now and Monday, but what you just said I think is another element that needs to be explained here cuz everything
092we've talked about tonight has been brainer place in the spa. You mentioned Berdon. There's this town has a lot of other >> there's more manufacturing growth going on. I think, you know, when you're talking about that five or 10 or 15 year element of this, I think there needs to be some kind of a bulleted list of of expansions in terms of industry and tax base >> that's gone on say in the last 5 years and expected to continue >> 100%. >> People need to understand that. >> Yeah. And I think and I think we could have something along the lines of for example assumptions, right? And I think there should be something identifying certain assumptions that says, you know, these mill rates are based on, you know, the anticipated mill rate, the anticipated growth,
093the anticipated um, you know, the revenues, the savings coming from consolidating the schools, which is a big factor of why we're looking at this um, and the additional tax revenue associated with Brainard. And then I think we should also say that not included in this, but other factors that are going to impact the town are the things talk about, you know, like for example, Bird on and things like that. So people will know that yes, we are looking at some of the growth that we've got that's going to help offset some of these costs and that there's going to be some additional stuff on top of that um that's there, but at least they'll be aware of it that we're not taking into >> and I'm surprised no one's brought up the other the other
094elephant in the room too is what do we do with biz and we have five years to figure that out. We have other things going and we have a brown field that we've cleaned up on the river and we have a couple other prop absolutely land that could have potential uh stuff done. So we have a lot of things. Again, >> I I don't want to overstate it. We're we're in an opportunity right now where we have the most growth in this town in a long long time and we have to make sure that we we we present that in the way that we anticipate it's going to happen and make sure that we're not >> well we also kind of give a false hope of potential >> 100%. >> Yeah. >> Right. Which is
095why you rely on the ones that we have. >> And until somebody comes in with a permit to build something or make their company bigger, it's all potential. >> You know who's going to keep that moderated and keep my excitement too high is Tom Robinson. making sure that we we keep the numbers realistic and and and reasonable. >> Just one other quick thing. I heard I think I heard tonight they kept referring to operational cost savings of $900,000, but we kept talking about over a million before. So >> Oh, please. Please. Yes. >> Yeah, we're going to talk a lot about that when I come through the the budget presentation. So we we shared a range, right? that the projection is that when we consolidate schools, when we take Valley View offline, we will reduce
096a principal. >> You mean bids? >> Uh, no. We take Valley View off. >> Oh, this year. >> To start, right? Because Valley View comes off. We we mothball View, right? Well, we we renovate it. We move prek2 to Gildersleeve, 35 to Brownstone, sixth grade to the middle school, and essentially Valley View comes off. That's the first one to go. When you when we when we do that to Valley View, the operational savings are every bargaining unit for the board of ed can be reduced. A principal, two certified teachers, a nurse, two custodians, two secretaries, we can reduce one large bus run and then all of the overhead savings, electric copier leases, all the things we pay, right? That that's the overhead savings. What we can give you is a range. The range when you
097add up all of those the salary benefits FICA and retirement liabilities on all of those it ranges from 875 to 1.175. We we I have to give you a range because the year we re we lay people off we give the pink slips which is tough. I got to be honest that's going to be a hard year but we're going to be losing a lot of good people that year. Going to try to do some of it through retirement and attrition but some people are going to lose their jobs. And what we have to be able to factor then is is really the insurance plans people take. If are they taking a single, are they taking no insurance, a single, a twoerson, or a family plan. Those are big numbers. I mean, if every one
098of those people is taking a family plan, that's when you get to the 1.175. If none of those people are taking any insurance, you're at 875. That that's why we have the range. That's why I think when we were talking about it today, we threw out 900. Like again, conservative at 900. That's conservative, right? That that's the number that David worked with and and that's the number Stephanie threw at him in terms of where where we were most comfortable. Could it be higher? It could be, right? >> No, that's fine. I just hadn't heard it was high. I always heard >> you heard me say a million. I kind of split the difference when I was presenting. That that's that's the range. >> No, that's fine. That makes sense. >> Yeah. And then I just
099want to add one quick thing as we get to that is kind of like seeding the clouds for what we're going to talk about next week is what we have to do with that in the year of the consolidation. We need to continue to raise it, right? We need to I'll come to you that year with a board of ed budget, maybe a 1% increase or a point 8% increase, right? But I'm going to ask you for three and a half 4%. Raise that money, right? then take it and take it out of my salary accounts and FICA and all those and move it over to capital. Right? And the one thing I'm most excited about to talk about next week is what I see in capital this year. You have 900 in there. Now
100imagine a situation where you're able to move the million from the high school overhead savings 900,000 right into capital and all of a sudden in that first year before you're paying back debt service we have 1.8 8 million for other capital projects like potentially some of the work on the secondary school that you're worried about, right? And then in the year that this starts hitting, right? You could move some of would you want to move all of it? I don't know. I don't I wouldn't suggest that. But move some of that 1.8 million out of capital over to debt service, right? But again, and and Bobby will point this out is that that would be a bad idea. I would suggest you keep some in capital because part of the reason we got in the
101pickle we're in with the schools is that we haven't always funded capital in the town the way it should be. So certainly you could if you took all the capital and moved it over to debt service boy now you're talking about cutting the mill rate right Dave I mean you're not even factoring in that. So at some point we have to be smart. We have to think about this strategically not just in terms of a one-year budget but a two or threeyear budget to one create that seed money to move from capital to debt service to offset the initial impacts of the the the bonding but also have some money and capital to work on the on the secondary school or repave parking lots or do roads or pay for fire trucks. you know, because
102that's also part of the the challenge Portland has had for a long time is that it's easy to cut capital, right? And I know that you've done that, but but like that that's the part where where where you get your infrastructure starts to decay if you're not making those investments right along. And then 25 years later, you're stuck with a bill like this. But we'll talk more next week. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. who's who's going to put all this together over the next five days because it's uh otherwise you're going to be there on Monday night with a lot of color commentary but no real numbers >> people need to walk away with something in writing that they can take with them >> right absolutely so we're we're getting >> stories perfectly
103I mean seriously >> but if it's not writing stories get >> exactly >> mutated and it comes out different so >> your your presentation needs another four pages in the edit If you you could add that too, right? >> Put the money. Yeah. >> All right. >> Um >> Oh, sure. And then this will have to be we'll have to wind it down. We're in 20. >> Um I I after reading uh River East, I I noticed that there was I I didn't get to the other meetings, but I noticed there's kind of like two different ideas on how much they'd be spending. Like either I don't know if it was 23 or 29. Then somebody said, "Well, if we spend the full 53 or whatever, we'll get a lot more reimbursement." So, I don't
104know which way which way that this is going or whatever. >> No, I think they can there was they were talking about doing just capital improvements at Gilderslee and the numbers were so close. It was what, like less than a $400,000, >> $336,000 difference >> to do a renovate the new school and get the whole school redone instead of just peacemailing it, >> right? >> It would cost the taxpayers less than $400,000 to redo the entire school >> because, as the superintendent mentioned earlier, when you doing capital improvements, the state reimbursement percentage is significantly lower. >> Yeah. But we we asked the question in the the most recent task force if you know just what do a comparison I mean for the money we're talking about doing capital improvements and for that money you can
105only do maybe your top three items versus re renovate to new which you basically got that that school down to the to the studs and build a brand new school on top of what's there and the difference is only 300 and some odd thousand. >> Well and and I got to tell you it was tackled pretty hard. The intention for uh several members on there was they wanted capital improvements only. every single line item was hit as to what to do and how to do that. And at the end of it, I think the whole committee said it makes more sense just to renovate to new with the reimbursement rate. >> That was just uh just Gildersleeve referring to Gildersleeve. >> Just Gildle. >> Yeah, because that was going to be >> Yeah. Valley view
106was always going to was always >> Gilders value is a renovate because we need more space back. That's considering you're you're take taking down the brown stuff. >> Well, take taking it off the off the school's list. I mean, whatever we decide to do with it, but not taking it down, but >> moving it moving it. >> I have a lot of comments about that, but maybe I'll write them in the, you know, I could go down a rabbit hole. I >> But reach reach out to the town hall. You have ask you if have specific questions about this. We'll get you an answer, you know. Well, it's more like, you know, comments regarding, you know, um the brownstone. >> So, like what to do with it? >> Yeah. >> I I we would love
107that. So, listen, we're going to be forming a committee, I'm sure, as to what to do. We've got five years, if this passes, we've got five years to figure out what the best use of that is, and in five years, Brandon will be up and running. Spa will be there. So, the the main street may be revitalized. So, what to do with that um will be more clear then. Well, something completely different than probably what anybody had an idea of. I mean, as far as, you know, like rearranging schools and things like that. >> I don't I just something I'll have to, you know, write comments in, I think. >> There you go. >> Instead of, you know, take them. >> No problem. We'd love to hear from you. Back is great. >> Thank you.
108>> All right. Thank you very much. >> All right. We've said everything we need to say, I think, for tonight at least. Uh, I'll make a motion we adjourn. >> I'll second that motion. All right. All those in favor? >> I motion passes. Listen, I'm going to take five minute break. I'll start at 7:30. I've been here.