Board of Selectmen Budget Workshop 3/26/25

001Good evening everyone. It is 7 o'clock. I'd like to call our meeting to order for our last budget workshop before we decide to adopt whatever budget we're going to do next Wednesday. So before we before we continue on with the budget deliberations, I want to recap what we did last night and just where we are up until now. Uh selected I have passed you three sheets. I have given you one with the updated proposed mill rate calculation to replace the one we had yesterday. Yesterday we were at 1.49 as a potential mil because but because of the change that we made with the local uh option with the car tax, it has now shifted to what you have in front of you. Uh what that shift is for those that are uh watching uh it

002has gone from 1.1 1.49 as a mill rate increased overall to 1.17. Um, so a significant decrease because of of that change. Um, I also have given you another sheet that has the changes that we made yesterday. So there were several changes totaling about $39,795. You should have the page number uh the account that it was done in and the total amount. You uh if you get a chance, why don't you put in the changes in your budget book now? So that way you'll have that should that come up again for discussion tonight. Should only be several in there. But, uh, if there's anything missing or something that you see, please let me know. And then lastly, you'll see a someone had a question about the probate court costs. Uh, I think we had it's

003$18,000. Again, that's one of those numbers that's that's given to us as to what our share is for a group of other towns that share this service. So, uh, the actual cost was 17,985. I think we put in 18,000. I think we're safe. So, we got a couple couple dollars there as a cushion. So, those are the three sheets that you have. Um, update your books accordingly. Um, let me go over the numbers that we did up until now just to give everyone an idea of where we're at before we start tonight. So, with the changes yesterday with going through all of the budget lines except for revisiting um capital expenses, uh, we changed the total mill rate from 1.49 down to 1.17. 72 is on the board of ed side. 44 is on the

004government side. Uh what does that mean in terms of cost? What does that mean in terms of dollars? Percentage-wise, uh the total budget is over is 4.6% increase over last year. The year before, last year's budget increase was 4.62. So we're effectively uh equal or stable to what the price increase was last year. Um the differential between government and education. Uh we were at government side was at 3.89. Last year, board of ed was at 5.08. So they've come down, we've gone up, but our numbers now are 4.0% for general government, 4.97 for board of ed. Again, overall 4.6% for combined budgets. So that's that's where we're at right now. I thought it was a good discussion last night. We uh we chewed through a lot of the items. We had some great uh great

005questions that were asked. Um I felt that uh the department heads were able to answer the questions. I know there's some still other questions that um that I was asked earlier today. Um and and if we if we need those, let let's bring the people up if you have questions on that. But um if if if the board uh concurs, I'd like to tackle the um the capital items first right now. Everyone good with that? Yeah, I'm just updating your updates. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Take your time. Let's get it right. I'm waiting for the final. Okay. Yeah. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Absolutely. All right. I'm good. All right, everyone set? Yep. Very good. All right, capital improvements is where we left last. Um, what questions do we have for this budget?

006And and let me preface that with also all the numbers that we have here. Uh, Tom and I u have gone through in terms of what the departments have requested, what the actual needs were. Um I feel very comfortable with the numbers that we have here and what the um the actual projects are based on the needs of the department uh the cost associated with it. Uh but also uh the minimums needed to maintain the services that we have. So, um there's no number on here that I feel is extra or something that that I don't think should be in there, but um let's discuss it now and let's make sure we get it clarified because I know there's some other points of view and I want to make sure that we're all in agreement

007on what we want to do going forward. So, it's got the first question. I'm just going to say I think as a board we should kind of figure out the board of ed systemwide HVAC indoor air quality upgrades 100. Are we sticking with 105 or are we increasing that? Because then I think we can kind of balance the budget out with what that number is. If we're sticking it with 105, so be it. If we're going to increase it, then we may have to cut from other places. So I got to I'm asking the board what a good number is for that. We were told from I said yesterday for a couple years now that that debt uh was going to come off and go into capital which was around 450. Now I understand that

008might be a lot of money and we can't do that. We should pick a reasonable number that we feel is comfortable with with the town. So I'll I'll throw out a number. I'll throw out 300,000 to put in there, but you guys discuss it. Yeah. If if I understood and and kind of correct me if I misheard that, but I think that the 450 did go into capital. I think the issue was that the way it went in was about 150 got allocated to uh board of ed capital priorities and the other and then other monies to town. Right. So when we're talking about um if we're looking at doing it, it's not necessarily about adding another 300,000 into capital. I think it would be what? Shifting within capital. Is that what we're talking correct?

009moving it from the government side to the border. From the town side to the border bed side. Correct. Gotcha. Okay. And that was just a starting point. I mean, I don't know how you guys feel about that number. What what you think Bob would need to get going on some of these projects. Well, as luck would have it, we have Bob here. Yes. I was going to say, let's talk to Bob. Let's talk to Bob. Mike, are you talking about that 105,000 on page 135? Yeah. So we what I'm asking is do we add almost another 200,000 to that? Do we have or is that needed? Is it I think if it's needed what we're asking do with it if we added it. We're we're asking if if we move it over to him if

010we give him 200,000 is it needed for him to get the repairs start doing capital projects at the high school middle school because we've been talking about it for a couple years and we haven't funded anything in a very long time. So you're questioning 105 is not enough. Yes. Yes. Okay. I just And it wouldn't necessarily be for HVAC, but it could be for other things that whatever would ever be because the longer we put them off, the more expensive they get year after year. Bob, did you bring a wish list? I mean, I got some figures that I could share. So, if we use the figure that Mike offered um just as a a placeholder um based on current costs, if I was to tack the rooftop units, which is a pretty critical um

011capital improvement for the school because we'll be adding dehumidification to those rooftops, which will definitely improve our air quality in the schools. And with that said, updating our controls to be able to manage those rooftops better and most likely get some energy efficiency out of those as well. Um, our rooftops range from 20 ton all the way down to 4 ton. And all the tonnages are different prices which includes your equipment, your subcontractor work to put them in the labor. Um, and so if I was to work off of 300,000, um, I would be able to get probably eight rooftops replaced. And how many do you need? Uh, 17, I believe we have. That's a pretty good chunk of rooftops. So, you know, they break up. So, basically, that would consist of, if I was

012to take that, that would consist of doing my 36 ton and four four ton. So that's about $300,000 with seven units. That's a pretty good chunk. So I think that would be one of my top priorities and that would go, you know, with some controls and updates. Um and we I do have some capital money that can add to that. So that would be a pretty good benefit and and a good start from it. So based on that, you can kind of taper down, which would be less rooftops. So that would mean basically, Bob, if we, for example, added 195,000, right, to get you to a total of three or 300 on top of the 105. Either way you want to do it. 300 would get me that. So you'd have to look at my

013total line item. Okay. Um, you know, to get to 300, add on to the 105 to get to 300 would do the trick. It's not an additional three. Okay? I have a little bit in capital now that I can feed off of, but not much. Okay, of 50,000. So, that gives me a little bit of a cushion to add some controls. But, you know, you can break it up. Your 20 ton uh rooftop units are coming in at about, you know, installed at about 80 each. You know, I have five of those. I have five 10 ton units. They're coming in at about 53. You know, and these are contingency numbers. There's a little bit of movement in those numbers because they're budgetary numbers. So, hopefully we can do better with those. So just gives

014you an idea on that. Big numbers for replacing the units. Yeah, complete replacement. Is that with state reimbursement too or Yeah. No, Mike, it's it I didn't there's nothing in there. So I would have to see if that we if we can get some money back on that depending on the program and if it changes, you know, they change all the time, but then you have to meet certain criteria. So for these particular units, they would probably meet a certain portion, but you got to check all the boxes. So updating the controls I think would help tremendously as far as meeting that, but I'd have to reach out. A lot of those HVAC, the grant that we first went for is no longer available. It's still out there pending. Hopefully it comes back and if

015it does come back in the meantime while doing this, then we certainly can get some pretty good reimbursement on that. That was a big number reimbursement. How old are How old are these units? 20. Oh, they're the originals. Yeah. Okay. We've replaced one. So, they're kind of I think they call it borrowed time, right? Yeah, we're getting there. So, we're replacing an awful lot of parts on units that really are going to we're going to start using losing, you know, their coils and things like that where you get to a point where they need to be replaced so that we can buy the current system. Yeah. So, we like I said, these units will have dehumidification in them. I don't have dehumidification in the school and if I was to add that to the existing

016chiller system, I'd have to close the school and repipe the whole place, which is not going to happen. So, unfortunately, that wasn't done in the beginning. We have just the the I have to basically shut from heat to AC. There's no in between. So, that magic number on the calendar always fails because somebody's warmer or hotter or whatever. So, there's a month of aggravation because they either did it too early or too late. But, we can't do both. We have to shut valves down and then start sending cold water through the same pipes that in the winter time use heat, right? So that to update that system will be pretty costly to add pipe. Is that the gly is that a glycol system? Yeah, it is. Now, are you going to upgrade and continue to

017use glycol? Yeah. So that system stays in place because that's only a certain percentage of the school. Rooftops are the other area. So we do both. We have unit heaters and chillers in classrooms and things. And then we have rooftops that primarily do a lot of the open space, which is the hallways, the the the media center, the gymnasiums, the cafeteria areas. So the the entire complex is not run with rooftops. This is just a percentage of the of the atmosphere. So do the rooftops use bron? They would. They would. Okay. Absolutely. So, you know, like I'm sure you're aware is the gas is change. The government's changing the gas. It's It'll be the new gas. Yeah. And that's another thing we're we're still using. We still have old stuff which Yeah. When can't you

018get that? Well, when if you still have R22, you're paying a lot if you have a ton of money to recharge our systems when we have to do that. And we're starting to get, you know, leaks. Yeah. So, these with these new rooftop units, you wouldn't need chill chill water coils in them. They would come with hot gas bypass which essentially reheats the cold air. Yeah. So it dehumidified out of it. So you'd get it's called a hot gas bypass. So uh you wouldn't have to go to a fourpipe system or shut the you know change it from hot to cold water if you don't want to. That helps I think address the air quality issues in the it starts to address the air quality issues. It does. There's a lot of air quality. doesn't

019get you all the way there. Standards, which I hope they change, but um it does start the process of starting to eliminate, you know, some of the potential mold issues and things like that are caused by, you know, dehumidification. We we dehumidify the school all summer with 14 commercial units that sit and run all day long to keep the humidity out of the school. I've done some with recommendations. I've done some damper controls and shut some dampering and things down, especially during the summer months when the students aren't there to prevent that from coming in. And we've had great success by doing that. There's no reason why we should be pulling moisture into our system when we're trying to chill it. So, we we've done some of that, but you know, you have to be

020careful on your percentages because you do want fresh air intake um to a certain point. So unfortunately some of that's still coming in and it's coming in in the form of moisture into that space with no way to remove it. This will help. So that's what that would thanks. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. All right. So, another $195,000 into that category that's gets him up to 300. I get Bob what he thinks he needs on his wish list to get that first big stepped up. It's my suggestion. How do you guys feel? I I I think it's we have to start doing something. We can't keep waiting and waiting and waiting. That's all we've been doing for years. We got a big nut to crack coming up with the schools and anything we can do

021to deal with the cost now is less that we're going to have to hammer the taxpayers with when that school bill hits whatever it happens to be. Yeah, absolutely. Good. Just be aware also um every about $200,000 is about a quarter mill maybe a little bit more and stuff. Well, let me let me ask you a question, Mike, and and I know this is we're always trying to be very careful with this, but one of the things I don't recall seeing yet was, for example, the audit from last year. I know we're moving $300,000 in from the fund balance. Well, what did the audit say in terms of how we finished last year, what position we were in? Um, you know, how much of was I assume we ran a surplus if we were moving

022300,000 from fund balance on these taxes. Um, do we know what that surplus was and how much of that has been encumbered for other items? In other words, maybe we go from 300,000 to 400,000 and we try to find another 100,000 in savings elsewhere so that we can still try to hit other priorities that we need to help, but we basically in effect spending a little bit more capital without taxing into incremental dollars, right? I do not have that number because I think the audit's complete. I just don't think we've had I know we normally have that review. I just don't think we've had We have not. that it has not been ready to submit to you. Okay. So, well, we were going to be in a really great surplus after this year's budget, but

023unfortunately the boilers broke down. So, we took all that the permitting money that we overage and we gave it to the board of ed. So, like we would have been in a real good spot next year. Yes. It would I don't know where we're at this year though. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm kind of curious, you know, how we're running what our projected surplus will be this year because even if that helps us fund a couple of priorities a little bit earlier in this year's budget, right, so we don't have to do them in next year. Um, but also what was the actual surplus last year? You know, is there is there any ability for us to use maybe a little bit more fund balance and then also look at addressing some of

024these priorities? I think if we can get to the 300,000 and and Bob's got a little bit more capital to use, um that gets you almost 50% of the way with the rooftops. That's a that's a pretty good goal for us to set to get done. I was in the same mindset like I don't know what that number is, what we had for a surplus. But if we had for instance, if we had cut something out of capital, now when we find out what that number is, we'll just take from that number and buy whatever it is that we were going to buy. we cut it now, but we pay for it in July or whatever. Whenever we find out what the surplus was. Yeah, we we we've done that before where we'll find out

025what the surplus was and then we'll fund some of the capital things, I think. Right. We've I know you and I were on a board where we did that a couple of times where um we looked at what the surplus was and then there were a couple of capital items that we weren't able to fund at the beginning of the year that because the way the budget was managed, we had a large enough surplus we were then able to fund and allocate, you know, to do that. Um, again, that's what I'm kind of looking at this year, right? We we've got a lot of stuff we want to do and some real needs. Um, trying to figure out how we balance it. Yeah. And it's assuming a surplus also, right? Yeah. So, yeah, that's what

026I'm saying. But that's that's why it would be nice to have that if we can kind of confirm where we're at. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm with you. I remember those years that we we were able to do a lot of capital like we had 600,000 surplus or 400,000. I remember those years. That's exactly the in a surplus. We just never really hear about it as much as we did those years. So I gotta imagine I know Tom's great and he he does well with the book. So I'm sure we're in a good spot. Well, I think that's the thing, right? Most of the time the way we are able to the way the money is managed, we typically even when it's allocated, we're efficient with it. And so we usually can return some to the fund

027balance and then we use it to offset the next year. Question is, do we have a little bit more than the 300,000 that we currently used to try to offset new taxation? Oh yeah, agreed. Um why don't we if there's anything else on this list that anyone has a concern about? Well, in in order to keep it balanced without adding to the mill rate, I want to I want to move stuff from this list up to capital. So, for instance, if we do the numbers and we took the phones out of it, the 90k for phones, if we take the one police car out of it and the school van and move it over there, that's 202k, right? That gets us where we need to be. That put us at 307. 307. But the question

028is more important. Is is there a need for that right now? Can we pull that out of the budget? I don't think we can because we again, we don't know what surplus is. We don't know what that is. I'm concerned about that. I wouldn't want to pull out one of the one of the cars. Um if it if it's but cheer me out, but if it's needed or if it's something that required based on what the police department needs or in the case of the phone system, um if there's a need there, that's something that we need to have. Well, they can bond it when they do the school bonding, they can put that. You're assuming they can, but there may be more urgency to that. We may need that right now. And the bonding,

029how long did it cost? There's there's a lot of back and forth on the school system. Is it going to be this year? Is it going to be something that gets done? There's a lot of unknowns there. I'm for example, with the phone system, right? You're talking about I'm sure it's an old PBS. I understand what you're saying. I'm just concerned about it still works. Yeah. We'd have to look and see because because I I can tell you one of the things that we run into a lot of times as things hit end of life and then you look at and say, can you get parts to repair them on the secondary market? And then when those start to dry up and I'm just not sure what vintage we're at and whether or not we're

030at a point where we're going to have a hard time getting, you know, parts on the secondary and you could be in an emergency situation. So, we probably should ask that when we're looking at exactly what we have with the phone system. But, um, right. But I'm not but I'm not and like for example, right? Um, we're looking at and obviously you know um I'm you know to me we should be doing sidewalks. um you know where are we looking at doing those 75 in sidewalks is that is that a place that we could do part of them or maybe do you know that type then we just we just approved the 100,000 for sidewalks which is with the grant match that's going to do that and then this is non-grant so this is incremental

031but this is probably one of those niche areas that doesn't qualify for a grant that you know we're leaving some residents hanging by not doing it you know but it's so we should probably talk like I mean to me that's we have to look at the priorities of what we got in So I think I think we need to clarify each one of these because for example the 75,000 on there. Yeah. Um in any sidewalk project we have there is the grant money that pays for most if not all of the actual work but there's there's a there's other money that's there non-grant match well either match or has to go into engineering and whatnot. So okay the 100,000 before and the 75,000 now are in that category. Now, I I have I have our

032um I have Ronald Herbert here to kind of explain some of the differences should we need it, but but there's that fund is put aside to be able to facilitate those sidewalk projects. So, that 75 is actually to support one of the projects we just allocated. That's what I was like. So, is that No, that was that was the question. I didn't know if it was incremental funding or if we had already encumbered that money and this was to do some more stuff next year. So, so we we we've had ongoing projects for sidewalks. We have a connectivity grant right now that we've applied for that requires having funding available and the connectivity grant and Ryan make sure if I'm explaining it incorrectly I want you to correct um we need money to either match

033for that so we can handle the engineering some of the design for that. Um so so that that funds the 75 grand but we've already funded that. There you go. Yeah, if you could answer that. Yeah, no problem. You look like you want to talk. Yeah, he was the numbers. So, um yeah, it's a little complicated. Um there's a few different sidewalk projects. There's there's the Main Street one that we finished this past year. Um there's still So, so we have I'll start here. I'll start from the top with how much we have right now which is 55,000 approximately 55,000 in capital non-grant. Then we have 50,000 in LOIP funds from last year that we allocated. Then we have $612,000 connectivity grant and that one is to complete Main Street um phase three. So altogether

034um you know over over 700,000 now some of this money in the 55,000 is being spent as we speak. Uh the Highland design was approved at the end of last year to design Highland and Homestead. um Main Street connectivity change order or um adder to that project for the east side of Main Street from Walgreens coming up to the Buck Foreman area. We're hoping um the bids come in favorable to finish the sidewalks there since they did such a good job, you know, budget-wise, you know, we were able to get north of Gildersleeve School with the sidewalks last year. Now, there's only 2,000 feet of sidewalks to complete. So, it might be we might be um have like three $400,000 to come down here and do a lot of the sidewalks and curbs down here

035that are all falling apart um around these islands and coming up to the building from Walgreens around Freestone and everything. Um, so that's what we're hoping to do, but that that design, the inspection, everything is going to cost money. So we have after subtracting what we already have, you know, that's that's dedicated to design, we have about 690,000. Then the estimate for that we want to use on Main Street is the 612. So that that wipes that out. Highland could be around a h 100,000. That's an estimate. Homestead 40,000. And then Jacobson for the construction administration and inspection another 30,000 which is a total of 782 out which leaves us 92k short. Now I know there's the other 100,000 that we just got. Um so that puts us tight on on getting those projects completed

036this year. Um there is now a third project that we want to apply for for High Street to continue the sidewalk replacement going from Crimson Heights through the high school and that application is due in May. Um so there's there's work that um we have Jacobson starting to do the concept plan and the estimate on that which is going to be between5 and $10,000. And then if we get that grant later this year, the final design, bid, inspection, everything that goes with it, um, using the Main Street steep grant that we just did, the design, everything right through construction was about 70,000. So that would be the 75,000. And that leaves us a little contingency. And again, these are estimated numbers, but that pretty much takes up all the funding for those three projects to

037get done. So that would be Highland, Homestead, Main Street to the end on the on that side, Main Street on the east side, possibly up through Waverly in in this area, and then uh High Street if we got that grant. So, it's not really a want, it's a need if we want to go after more grants and be able to get those grants and have it funded. Correct. Yeah. And and if we did in looking at trying to do something with the school um use that 75, we'd still be able to do the other two projects that we talked about. The only part that we wouldn't be able to do this year that we don't have to plan for maybe for the following year would be High Street. Correct. Okay. And that's if we get

038that grant, we don't know if we're going to get it or not. The application goes in in May. We should find out by the end of the fiscal year, start of the next year, which would line up nicely if we had it in the budget. If we had it in the budget here, it would line up. But let me ask a question. we didn't have it in the budget here and we got the grant, would the timeline for completion of work in the grant allow us to fund it in the in the in the 26 27 fiscal year? 26. So yeah. Yeah. We would have to spend the funding up front and get the design done and the design is a 75. Yeah, exactly. All right. I'm getting you now. I thought it was work.

039Yep. Yeah. The grant only covers the construction and then um some of the material testing that goes with it, but we usually just fund that out of that that it's easier just to separate it. Construction, engineering. We cover the engineering, the grant covers the construction. So, we use the full grant amount for as much sidewalk as possible. And how much was the are you going for on the U? So, you apply street. You can apply between I think uh 3 and 800,000. Don't quote me on that, but that's a roughly what you could you could apply for. So, we need um an estimate from from Jacobson uh just to get through the high school from Crimson. We'll we'll see what that estimate is, you know, working some contingency there and we'll apply for that amount.

040That's why it was 612,000 that we got for this one. They were assuming we were going to end at um I think it was like 510 Main Street and we ended up at 580. So that's the difference in funding that we're going to see for the possible change order down here. So it's all just based on estimates. It all we don't know how the bids are going to come in until they come in. But um you know that's that. What was the when you were rattling off, you know, Homestead 100,000? Yeah. Highland 100,000, Homestead 40, Main Street 612, then you said 30,000 for something. Uh, so that would be construction, administration, and inspection for Jacobson. So the the other numbers I was naming that was just for the design of Highland and the Main Street

041um concept plan over here for the the connectivity project. Um so we would still need to administer the project, get it out to bid and then have the inspection, the material testing, everything like that for both projects. So that was the 30 estimated. Yeah. So thanks for um this is a kind of Ryan I've working on a bunch of projects here uh this year and I didn't I don't really have this stuff off the top of my head but I didn't have the surplus. I didn't expect to use the additional any surplus due to the fact of all the supplemental appropriations that you've all approved this year or the one that we have ahead of us. You've approved a $780,000 use of fund balance for the well. Yeah. You use $200,000 of fund balance for

042the road construction on High Street is the match and you have another 150 in this resolution to do the sidewalk and the resolution of fund balance. We've always we've used otherwise 300,000 as a reasonable usage of fund balance in our budgeting system. We've used that gone through many audits with that as a as a as our premise of usage of fund balance. And it's and it's a reasonable number that you utilize. It's not overaggressive of a use of fund balance in your budgeting. And then it does give you the ability when things do arise to go back and perform supplemental appropriations as needed as things become either more urgent or or required. So I just wanted to refresh you guys on those are all the things we've already taken from the current through through supplemental

043appropriations for this year. So that's using up quite a bit of any surplus that we would have. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Tom. Thank you, Ryan, for walking through that because I know it's different project. A lot of things in the air. Yep. Um, anything else on that? All right. Thank you. I think I think one of the things to consider too is um is is I'd like to get Bob what he needs to get that project done. And I think our decision is do we find it on the list here of of items that were deemed necessary and important for the various departments or do we increase the taxes or increase the revenue that we generate from the town in order to pay for some of that or maybe some hybrid of that. Um

044so I think that's something maybe we need to think about. Um but let's is there any other item? I know Michael you mentioned the police cars. Is that something? I'd like to know why, you know, we have to have two this year. Why we can't say do one this year and one next year? The board. Good evening. Police Department. Um, regarding cars, it's been a few years since we've had cars. It's been what? A few years since we've had any cars. I think our newest car is a 2021 right now. And with the addition of the 13th officer, we won't have spares that are going to be sitting not accumulating miles anymore. On average, every year, they're going to put on 20 25,000 miles per vehicle. Now, over the past year and a half, I've

045kind of been able to shuffle around cars that try to keep some of the high mileage off off our top ends, but they're all reaching a point where they're getting very close, a great number of them, to 100,000. And that's not including our two spares, which are Tauruses. Torres are basically unusable by our department at this point. And that's because the equipment now that we have to house, we can't we can't get into the trunk or if it's in the trunk, our officers can't access it fast enough because we have to be ready to take our equipment out immediately. We're responding to calls. We prepare as best we can, but we don't always know to nature and whatever tool we need, we need to access immediately. That being said, um we probably have I don't

046know the exact mileage on the spares with our SUVs. 100. It's got to be in the 90s 80s and then probably two two or three in the 80s. Now, let's roll that for two years. Add 50,000 on that. Good luck with that car. As it is now, we have a 15 spare K9 car down there that the highway garage has been asking us to get rid of for a couple years. It's just difficult and it's expensive to maintain because of its age. The lighting systems in the cars are starting to go, especially the older ones. We have one car we call blinky because half the lights don't work on it and it's going to cost $3,000 to have it rewired with new lights. The old lights are not can't transfer. I mean once you put

047new wiring in, you have to put new lights in. It's unfortunate the way it balances out. But as our numbers increase, these other needs are always going to increase. And that's just that's just the way life is. If we're going to cut anything, I'll cut the cameras because you know what? We have to respond and we have to respond safely. Cameras are a great investigative tool. Love to have them, but I consider them a luxury over a car. We have to have cars. And we're going to come back again next year. We're going to need cars again. telling you right now cannot get away from purchasing cars. We did it for too long. What do you expect to get for mileage out of the cars? Like is the 100,000 kind of your threshold? Get up

048to 125. So you figure you got at least 6 months before we're in a new car. 6 to 8 months. There's another 10 12,000 miles on whatever cars we already have. You wait another year, throw another 25,000. 20 to 25,000 on that. At that point, the cars we usually pass to other departments within the town. They're not looking as sharp or as they're not running the way they should and they're not as safe as they probably should be for these other departments to use. It's important to keep an a just timely um timely um re you know refresh of all these vehicles. That's the only way to do it. Once you start skipping years, and we got lucky because we lost eight guys. I mean, that's not lucky for us or the town, but we

049we were down to eight guys. So, we didn't have miles on those cars, but that's not the case anymore, as I said. So, are these two vehicles you're looking for? Are they going to replace the Tauruses? We'll put those out the pasture, but again, I don't expect to get them until probably October, November. I mean, you're looking at another 10 to 12 on each car that's currently on the road. When you said about the cameras, are you talking about the traffic cameras and the security cameras on here or just the traffic cameras? Isn't that already partially funded? That is, but we have 12 in this year. I mean, I'd have to pair back what we have through the contractor, right? If I'm going to lose anything, I'd rather just lose that 12. The other thing

050is I can't I and I can't stress this enough and I'm sure Pete could could speak eloquently on it. We can't lose our computers either. No, they're just our old ones are just they're old and they're not going to be supported anymore. And that's the lifeblood of our of our department. I I know everything's expensive and I wish I didn't have to be the person presenting all the expensive stuff to you, but it's Where do I'm here? Are the cameras in the car or where are the cameras positioned? No, these were street cameras. Okay. Yeah. So, we already have some. We No, we have we have x number of dollars allocated for a system. We we in this year's budget because of the proposal we had which came in a little higher than anticipated. We

051had another $12,000 added to meet that proposal that we have now. Um we'd have to pair down the proposal. But this is I think that's cameras. It's also an alert system, right? Yes. It's a mix. It is a mix. Yes. Yeah. So three of the systems are alert. The other ones are only for video. Okay. because the alert ones cost more, right? And you only need them certain areas, you know, the entry and exits of the of the town, right? But I but I think that those given some of the challenges that that you guys have been facing um in terms of protecting folks in the town, those are those are important. I think we a bad actor. Yeah, those are important. We spoke at some of the other meetings about the type of element

052that has come in for the for the crimes the the serious crimes and we definitely need the readers. Any other questions regarding the cars? No, I mean the cars make sense, right? We it's it's um again because we with with the way the fleet but they has to happen. Well, and the problem is if we don't get into a better cycle, then we're going to be looking at doing four at a time and then that'll that'll really be impacted. And that that has happened in the past. We lost a cycle and then all of a sudden we need a bulk number of cars. Yeah. Which by the way is exactly what we're trying to get ourselves out of with the hopes. Correct. So, you know, case in point, right? Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you

053very much. Do we want to talk about the BOE van as well in terms of the where that falls in the budget? The BOE van, the van, the board of ed van is that in here? Yeah. Yeah. I'm just think we're looking at ways to recoup the 195,000, right? I think the BOE van ultimately is a a saver, right? Well, I did hear more about Yeah. Is it the ban doesn't exist presently? So there's a plan for that and just how firm is that plan and what does it look like? So um the board of ed essentially pays for itself, right? We we we are either going to have um the funding with if we purchase the van, we can take the funding out of student transportation that we currently have budgeted in specialized services

054and pay ambassador or M&J or any of the other number of vendors that we have to transport the students or we can purchase the van um take the money out of that and and use it to pay for a van drive. Right. So um it's a one-year payback. It actually saves us about $15,000 out of the the operating budget by reallocating it. So, it it's it's either we're going to pay Ambassador M&J or another vendor to transport the students or we're going to purchase the van and bring it in house um and hire another driver. Hopefully, we can find another driver. Um, but we've had really part of the reason we're in a good budget position, a better budget position this year is that by purchasing the van and having two running now, we're saving

055by not having to pay the contractors to to do that for us. So, it it pays for itself. I mean, we're they're going to pay somebody else and and they always mark it up, right? I mean, there's a markup in any business um or in bring it in house. One quick question before you go. the um if the 52 is in here now. I know you just said that operationally that'll save you sort of what about $15,000 a year, right? Is that 15,000 currently in the board of ed budget? Yeah. So, we would need to reallocate some of that to pay for a driver. Okay. And then um some backend support, gas, we would need to move it into some of the other line items that we use to support the van. Um the driver

056being the the primary one. Um, but that that's where where it starts to we could have done that on the on the board side, but we we figured if we did this as a capital expense, it would work on our operating budget and then at the end of next year once we have the van, then we can reduce our budget overall. Not sure if I explained that quite right. I'm Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out as we're trying to find Yeah. money to do a lot of priorities, including the some stuff at the school if there was a way to. Yeah, the van is is a a long-term costsaver. This year, it's it's about break even. Might save us about 15,000, but after this year, it will save us about $75,000 a year. I

057know that doesn't help this year, but it's it's the right investment to make for a short-term $15,000 savings and long-term $75,000 savings once the ban ban is paid for and we have it as part of our fleet. How long do you anticipate being able to use the ban? Like how many years, how many miles do you put on it? Um, boy, you know what? I'm going to defer to some of the the experts in terms of Vanpool driving. I mean, Bob, you you might know more. Even Scott, what are I'm just wondering when are we gonna have to buy another one that wears out, Yeah. right? Yeah. We're not flooring it to get to an emergency. We're driving. How many years is do you anticipate? depending on if those roots increase more activity money on

058the long run, you know, replacing the vehicle. Yeah, it is one of those investment type, you know, saves us money on the transportation or something. [Music] And we mentioned the phone system earlier was Oh, that's townwide phone. That's not just uh for the school. School. It's mainly for the school. So, I'll tell you a little bit about the phone system, but before that, you know, great suggestions. Let's move some capital projects ahead so that we don't have to bond them and spend money on interest mortgaging our future. Great idea. But there's not a single one on this list on the first page of capital that I personally don't consider almost an emergency because these things have been floundering for years. Public safety, you're not going to get any waiver from me. That should be the

059priority on your entire list and we should build under that. So here's the thing. I don't think anybody should lose personally to move HVAC ahead of the game. I think it's a great opportunity to save money, but if it's going to sacrifice stuff that we certainly need um that is really critical, especially, you know, Officer Cunningham, I'm talking about vehicles that have 100,000 miles on it and that you're responding in emergency mode with you're just waiting for a disaster on that. So, I think most of this stuff is critical. I I get what you're trying to do. I think the the I mean the ask is excellent, but my my rooftops are running. They're certainly not dehumidifying, but if that's going to have to be done in a bond to save what really is not

060going to be done in a bond, we might have to look at that. The phones is one of those probably hasn't been brought to anybody's attention, maybe as strong as I will, but the high school phone system is a single point system. It's run by a controller. And thank you, Pete, for the additional information that put all this together, but maybe it should be you, not me. But, um, we've had problems with the phone system at the secondary school before. Okay. When the phone system is down for an hour, yeah, look out. They'll be in your office, Mike. Every parent that can't get a hold of the school for whatever reason, but it's not even that as much as the ability to call out. We don't have a intercom system in the newer school like

061we do in the schools without phones in the classroom, but at least we have contact to the main office. Um, so we'll lose that, but we'll lose the ability for the administrators to communicate with our busing system and things that they do every day from their phones. In an emergency, can they use their cell phones? They can. They're their personal vehicle, personal devices. We've done that before, especially on the principal level, the director's level, stuff like that. But half of our cell phones don't work in that school. So the teachers lose the ability of emergency if they don't have the radio system that I put in. So there's a lot there. So we are at a point right now that if we lose the controller that we have, there are no parts for it. And

062I was just told most recently that a lot of the parts that were saved or given to us by the company that now is out of business are have been used. So we don't even have any more um of those parts to put in the system. So what happens here is if it fails, it fails. We're out of communication, but we'll be in an emergency mode to repair that, which is going to cost you about twi probably twice of the this because you're going to have to go with a no bid situ whatever. You're going to have to emerge within a week or two try to get communication back to the school because I can't imagine operating without it. I I don't know if you can if you can imagine a school without a phone

063system. Can you legally operate without it? Probably not. Yeah. I mean, you'd have to come up with a plan to do so, but boy, that's some scary stuff. I mean, I I witnessed it just for a 24-hour period, and I just wanted to hide. I mean, it really wasn't my issue, but I did everything I could to support the town because they kind of run the phone system. That's why it's in the category it is. But that's on the list. And here's the thing, you can pull that away. You can fund it somewhere else. But there may be that day where you you'll all get phone calls. Maybe we'll care cell phones for parents, but you'll get those phone calls if that thing goes down. We can we can definitely bet on it that it'll

064last. You can put it in the bond moving forward if we ever get there. But then again, you're purchasing a phone system with interest. I mean, I look at everything that is as borrowing. that by the way Bob that's that's kind of what it's like my business background of borrowing and how that you know you know Rick you've been in business it's just hard to swallow try to do the best without doing that and you know your capital is what we try to do but it's painful we're all for the budget I get it but if I came to you and said five of my rooftops didn't work and I was struggling with my environmental contractors and we were trying to get even heated into the building. That's a different story. Like the Boilers, didn't

065have a choice but to come deal with that. That was pretty ugly. Still working that out. But this great opportunity to save money, but I think there's other priorities as well that need to be hit. Just want to be an equal player. I'm not afraid to say that. I've been on all sides. It's fine. Okay. Thanks for So the flip side I think would be right if we're looking at $195,000 incremental capital it'd be you know a little less than a quarter of a mill like 222 3 mil if we were wanted to go there for some portion there follow no I saying as we're looking at trying to look at doing a little bit more for the school if we wanted to fund it, right? Just just fund it. If we don't have the

066ability to use any incremental fund balance, [Music] um you're looking at a little less than a quarter of a mil like 223. Well, I'm looking at this budget and listening to everybody that and correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but I think you said we have a combined increase of 4.6%. 4.6 six for both budgets. 4. Yes. 4.60. And I'm just looking at it from all the retired people and senior people that don't use town services that just try to, you know, take care of themselves and they have to pay these tax increases. And four and 5% budget increases year after year are not sustainable for people that are on fixed incomes. So, I'm I mean, I've been asking a lot of questions and listening. Um, not because I want to chint on public safety

067or the schools, but I'm just trying to look at it from the perspective of um our older citizens. Uh, so I don't and I felt I'll be honest with you, other fellow selectmen, I felt last night we were just handing out money, a couple thousand here, a couple thousand there. And I'm of the mindset that, you know, we need to do what we absolutely need to do, the important stuff. But some of the things, you know, if a a department head comes up and asks for, I don't know, 36,000 or 34,000, we say, "Oh, we'll give you 38,000." It's like, no. To me, it's like the person came up here and said they could live with 36. Then that's what we should give them. more question why maybe we're even giving them that. But we,

068you know, we decided it was a a good use. This was uh I think when we were talking about the van drivers with that because the previous two years were $38,000 is what we spent even though we only budgeted 32. Okay. Well, then I I missed every year we move money into that to cover our overages. Okay. I don't think I understood that last night either. Yeah, I didn't understand that. Yeah, cuz she said in her write up 36,000, but she did say in her write up 36,000. I know we're digressing a little, but that's what she asked for. Um, so to me, if that's what a department head's asking for, then if if we feel we can do it, we do that. Um, I know it's a small amount, but um I I just

069think we the the previous two years were 36,200 35,500 and this year is budgeted for 32,000 and they're already turning people away. And she asked for 36, I believe, and we gave her 38. Yeah. Or we said 38. Well, she originally asked for 34. True. And then she came back for an ask or two more. But I think I certainly can identify with what you're saying in terms of, you know, keeping our increases as low as we can and meeting the critical needs of the town. And I think that's the core of the message. And I think it's, you know, I'm hearing Bob and I appreciate Bob's comments an awful lot because, you know, I was on long-term capital last year for the first time, just very short termer. And, you know, hearing those folks

070talk about it, it was just so clear. brought home so much how, you know, we've gone on the cheap with capital spending in this town for 20 years and we've not done what we need to do and we unfortunately we can't make up for that this year. I I think I think that's the feeling I have is we I'd like to see us do more and I think that's what Mike was getting at too is we need to do more and I don't know but I don't think adding more to the bottom line right now um of an already 4.6% 6% increase is I think that's a tough that's a heavy lift. That's a heavy lift. That's I mean the people that are still employed, you know, maybe they're going to get a 4% raise

071or 5% raise with the job, but the people that are retired and are on fixed income, right, they're not getting those kind of raises. I mean, they have to pretty much depend on what whatever they maybe have saved and can earn with their investments or what they're going to get from social security. And I don't think social security went up 5% this year. Um, so that's just a little bit to I'm just trying to say, you know, let's look at it from those people's point of view, which, you know, I think is about 40% of our population. That's my point just with this one department is these are the people in that fixed income that are relying on the town for transportation because they can't drive anymore. They have no way of getting there for

072if if you want to change something else. I think this is the biggest thing we have to offer senior citizens in the town besides the senior center. And most of these people, like Sarah said, can't even get to the senior center unless we pick them up and bring them. Yeah, I think that was my thing. If she was asking for 36, but she would like like not just to be people to be picked up to go to an appointment, that they'd be picked up and brought to the senior center for events, for socializing, for meals. That that that's why I was happier with the 38. And and Bob, I I you know, I agree with that. I think that there's an awful lot when we talk about constituencies. Um you know, our seniors are folks

073that don't use as many of the other services and adding a little bit into that to improve the quality of their life, I think is important. Um I think, you know, I think it was important that we added what I think there were really three places that we kind of made some of those adjustments. and you know the fire department. I think that was I was happy that we were able to do that. I think that was a good place to add a little bit. Um I was happy to do it with the seniors and and I think when you look at the net when we the additional purchase we did for waste the uh the transfer station that ended up being a net negative because we ended up taking some money out of the

074bags, right? So I think we found some offsets. I think that when we talk about the discussions we had last night, but all of the different discussions in different categories, it moved the mill increase from a 1.12 to a 1.17 if I, you know, confirming on with Tom's numbers. So, you're talking about, you know, it was 5100s. So, it's a lot of conversation. It wasn't a huge amount of dollars. And I look at what we're gaining and what we're able to impact that that that can have on on our folks is probably it's probably good value. Um, I think the fact that we're having this discussion now about the capital budget, um, unless we want to go back and look at other budget items, period, which I know a lot of that is really contractual

075costs, right? We've kind of already made certain commitments. Um, you know, that's that's the hard part, right? We we want to do more capital, more capital, and it doesn't seem like there's a lot of good ways to do that right now without without driving it up. That's always and that's what we've always been up against, you know, it's it's how do you add another quarter mil, right? I mean, we we'd looked at some potential options when trying to find offsets and those seem very difficult giving given sort of the the set of priorities. Um, and and if we don't want to spend incrementally more, which I agree with. I think we're we're sitting at 46 overall. You know, to me, I really would prefer not to go higher. I wish we could be lower. Um,

076but I think it's good that we have discuss just was giving some, you know, small examples. I I don't care, you know, one way or it's not that big a deal. It's just an example. But the real point was, like you said, it's a 4.6% increase. I I'm not real comfortable with that, but I mean, if that's where it's got to be, I'm only one person here. No, but we we all need to understand the other side. So, so I agree with both of you. Like I understand that. Um but I agree with you a little bit more on this because there's some things in here that, you know, for $2,000 and $4,000 more, I think the impact on that is it makes a big difference. I feel good about that and it does give

077back to the seniors, especially the ones that need it. That's an easy yes for me. Um but we have other places. So, for example, um Bobby had suggested that with the lease that we had, we put another $16,000 in open space, right? To me, if I I would rather pull from that to pay for the $2,000 there um and maybe put more money in open space at another time or a future budget. Um so, I would rather do something else to get to the number that's less because every dollar we talk about on the positive side is going to be, you know, taxes out there. In fact, um even if we do $200,000 to the board of education, we add $200,000 to their side from us, the mill rate goes from 1.17 to 1.40. There's

078that big of an impact. Um the percentage overall for increase goes from 46 to 5.1. Now we're over 5% just with that 200,000. Um board of ed 4.99, general government 5.3. So those are those are big numbers. So, every dollar makes a difference, I guess, is what I'm saying. And after looking at the capital budget, um, those are all numbers that had kind of were pounded down to as low as they can. Um, and who knows, we could go through a whole year and the phone system were great, right? There's you're always rolling the dice. So, we're making calculations here and decisions based on being careful. Maybe we can go another year. I mean, we all do that in our own homes, right? We go as long as we can with the car and other

079stuff. Um, but I'm sensitive to the amount that it is. Um, and a good percentage of that amount is for providing the services that we do as a town, you know, and reasons for people wanting to come and stay in town. So, so it's again, it's a holistic thing and it's it's it's obviously complicated, but um, but where else does this board feel like we can either find some money? Like I said, I think that $16,000 extra in open u open space is something that I'd consider. and put it back to 50. That drops the $16,000 down. Um, I agree with you. I think we I don't know if Bobby or Mike have any other ideas about the capital, but I think it's kind of hard to cut. I mean, those are from from what

080I've heard so far that, you know, those are needs, not necessarily just wants. Yeah. I I think I would classify every one of these as as a need. But if anyone has a question about it, I mean, I want everyone to feel comfortable about that. Yeah. [Music] I can pay. I'm not comfortable going to No, not at all. And I think, you know, I and I just hearing what Bob is saying, you know, I'd like to see those units. You can kind of leg up on those, but I think the other Well, when we're done with capital, I'd like to revisit came from last night. So, so I don't find it here. So, let me ask the board. Does anyone have any other questions about the capital expenses? Yeah, once we leave this, we're leaving

081for good and we'll move on. Um, next week we have to vote on this. So, like to get it at least the decision tonight going once twice. All right. All right. And let's look at anyone has any additional questions on what we've covered already. Um, I have a question on the library position. I'd like for hear more of where that trying to find my page on it. Yeah, I' I'd be interested in the number. What page is the library? Yeah, please. What that actually 99? I was way off. I would have been flipping for a while here. Anything for me to remember though? Hi, Jen Billingsley, library director. So, how much is the dollar amount on that position we're looking to fill? If you're looking at how much I could pull off of that, because

082I had some staffing contractual things that happened after the budget was submitted. Okay. Um the the number that we could pull off of that if you absolutely didn't think you could would be 18. Um I really do strongly encourage uh if you have questions that I can answer for that, I'm happy to do so. I we really do we really do need the the I'm gonna I'm gonna borrow a phrasing that I heard last night. Uh it's really it's not necessarily it's not a new position. It's restoring a position. Okay. So it's um because I talked I talked back when the first the budget was reviewed. It was we used to be seven full-time and four well sorry we used to be six full-time and nine part-time staff. So, I'm asking for 15 hours back

083out of 48.5 that we used to have in 2005. That was 48 and a half hours extra like in addition per week. And so, I'm asking for 15 of those hours back. Um, I know that I know that you do look at it year to year and see what the increase and the decrease is. We had a 65% decrease in our budget last year over what it was. Um, it was a 0.94 increase in fiscal year uh 22. It was a.76 decrease in fiscal year 18. So, you've been you've been trimming your library budget from what I can tell because I only can see the end pieces of it and ask Jan what her memory is for some of it and she still takes my phone calls and I'm very uh grateful. Uh, but the

084So, what was the decrease last year? 65%. 65. So, what's your staff? And that's not on the numbers, though. We have seven full-time, four part-time. What was the I'm sorry. What was the other question? I'm just looking at the numbers. 15 2. That's total decrease for the entire budget, not the not just the staffing. Okay. Yeah. I looked at And how many, excuse me, how many hours a week are you open? I can pull that actually is like I I tried to add them up. I think I was at 52. Yeah, that sounds that sounds pretty right. That sounds I don't have access to all of like we don't we're encouraged not to advice. It should 10 to 8 Monday through Thursday. Yes. and then 10 to 5 5 on Friday and what's Saturday? 10

085to 3. Okay. It used I guess it used to it used to be more than it was it used to flex. It used to be 10 to 1 or 10 to 5 and then it they decided that more stability was easier for people to remember then oh what season is the library in so they just kind of split the difference. Yeah. And I I think like 20 years ago it was open till 8:00 Monday through Friday. Oh, it was open till 8 on Fridays, I think. So, well, it doesn't I I think it was open more hours than it is now, but Okay. Not that many. Yeah. Um Okay. Yeah. I So, and I did a little bit of um looking at like average like I I want to compare us to other libraries as

086well. Okay. Um, so when you're running state statistics um that the this the state library pulls together, they group us together in service population chunks. And so we're in this we're in the five the population 5,000 to 10,000 range, but we're right if you 10 we're right there. Yeah. So, um, if you're looking at averages of, uh, part-time employees for library for that 5,000 to 10,000, it's six part-time employees is the statewide average. How many full? Oh, wait. How many full would be Hold on, I pulled this up for [Music] that. 5.4 would be full. So, it's not that different from us. And if you jump to the 10 range, which we're right right at the cusp of, the average uh number of full-time employees is 7.5 and the average part-time employees for that is

0879.4. So, we're and if you look at if you again like you can run the numbers and see how many operating hours you have, we report all of that to the state. And we're we're actually Nick, I sent you a thing. I have charts. So um I sent them uh thank you. Oh you had it right ready. You're the best. Hand applause for our tech guys. So um there is perfect. So if you look at our library visits per capita like how how many visits that we're experiencing is higher not only than this smaller libraries than us that statewide average. And so that's huge libraries with multiple branches with busy urban populations where people are walking in and out that are warming shelters that are cooling shelters. Um and now we have our beautiful senior

088center that acts as that. Um but could you go beautiful? Um our circulation is also almost double what that is like what our again statewide this little bracket total statewide average like all sizes. all sizes, everybody. We are busy. Pretty impressive. Uh, one more. Our print material, how that's how many items that we have. Um, items you they they're not just static on the shelves when you're in a library. So, we call it weeding. When we get rid of items, just like you weed a garden, you have to weed a library collection because you're like, "Oh, someone someone used a piece of salami as a bookmark in here. We have to get rid of this one. We have to weed it." Um, or there's not this kind of dinosaur anymore. Or Pluto is no longer

089a planet. it has to be weeded. Um, but so our print materials collection is that big and we don't have an unlimited amount of space. We've been in that space for since 1981 when the National Guard helped move the books in. So those those items that are on those shelves are earning their space. They're going out. So, um, one more, uh, our children's circulation, which is an amazing number. Again, we're at we're almost double in like when you're comparing us against like like size and statewide. One more. And this is our most impressive number to me. Our young adults or teen circulating collection is again almost double. And those numbers are very small because it is the smallest collection because it's a very niche age range. But our teen books are going out. Our kids

090are reading and I think that's um because a lot of care and love is put into the collection and also because the programs bring them into the library and also because the biz students can walk to us I think is the other piece of it and boy do they. Um so one more maybe. Yes. And so this is the other piece of it. Um the this is a number that we're very very proud of the children's and uh young adult program attendance. We're about we're we're fairly reasonable for number of programs like we're I didn't do the number of programs one instead of here but our attendance is higher at all of those. So even if we're like offering we're offering whatever story whatever number of story times the number of people that are coming

091into those story times is higher than all of those averages. Um, and the reason why I brought up uh the board of selectment moving back in on Wednesdays is that we have to rejustel everything to reaccommodate you into that. And we can do it. Um, but this will this will help us do it. This number will like when when you do come back there will be like a there will be a growing we'll just we'll have to figure it out. But I don't want this number to go down because you lose families and you lose them. They find something else to do. And this is something that is funded uh for the community um with tax money. So, and also for the children's and YA programs are uh the material costs and like performer fees

092like whenever it's outside groups that are coming in or uh or supplies uh for that. It's the friends of the library. It's your volunteer hours in this community that are paying for those. So, they're already they're an incredibly generous group. So, I don't I think that's the last one. Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay. Sorry. Thank you for Thank you for letting me show you the charts. That was good. Thank you. I just have a question. So you go ahead. I'm set. Yeah, I'm done questioning. Just so the um for now you said something. You just I'm trying to wrap my head around. You said that if that position were to not be filled. Yes. the savings would only be 18,000. Yes, but that's not what that my question was. What is the the amount tied to

093just that position? So, because it's that's not what you're actually that's not the cost of a person's pay and benefits, is it in that position? So, this this would be 15 hours. So, there would be I think the benefits that they get would be like sick time um because of the state piece of it. Um I don't they I do believe they get a little bit of vacation time at a 15-hour position. Um but I don't like they don't they don't qualify for um the retirement. That's all wage. That's all wage. That's all. Um so yeah. Um, and the other thing that I wanted to make sure I mentioned is uh the other reason for having this librarian level staff member is because uh I don't I don't know if people recall uh but the

094where where we had that shelter in place order that ended up not being uh that people treated incredibly seriously in emergency services and our town police responded really beautifully and communicated really well with us. But the library had the librarians that were on staff that Saturday had to decide to close the door and shelter in place as directed. And it was a series of highlevel um like you you like you need you need a person who's in that position in that trusted space that it knows to go over and talk to the teenagers that were dropped off earlier that morning. You need a librarian in that position who is able to be staffing in order to be safely open. So, any other questions? Okay, Jen, thank you very much. Yeah. We love our library program.

095So, thank you. She's a good salesman. [Laughter] Good saleswoman. That's the way they represent. Yeah, those stats are You got bonus points for that. charts. The charts The charts were put me over the top. There you go. I tell my wife in that library four five times a week. Very good. All right. Oh boy. Anything else in the existing budget? I think we're almost at the finish line. Um well, seeing I've been the ogre so far. Um, what about in the board of ed budget? Does anybody see anything there? It could be where there could be some savings. So the last dozen or so budget cycles I've gone through. Um there's generally an ask at this point in terms of is there anything else because I think all of us here have watched the meetings.

096We paid attention to what you've done. Um maybe most people out there haven't maybe watching for the first time here. Um as we talk about combined um what do you have in your if you had to look at your budget right now with everything that you've done and the uncertainty and all that kind of stuff. um what do you have or what do you think would be there um to either move reduce what's your assessment after all this? Yeah, I wish I brought you my charts. Right. My favorite my quote of the night is thank you for letting me show you my charts. That was fabulous. That was fabulous bonus empathetic. So here here's my here's my anxiety, right? And I'll just I'll just share it with you. Um, last year it was wrong, right?

097We we there was a point last year, Tim Kim will remember, Laura remember, where Stephanie was was reporting about over a million dollar deficit. We we were right around January. There's a reason why there's no hair left on this head and I look as old as I do, right? I mean, it was bad. We were we were in a really tough spot because two things happened at the exact same time. We had some students with disabilities move in at the same time that the state reduced the amount that they had promised us and our ECS funds. Literally in like one email from Dawn and one email from the state, we were were in a million and about a million one deficit. Now you you know what did we do? We we immediately froze everything we

098could possibly freeze and we notified you, right? We shared this with the board. moved as quickly as we could. We were discussing layoffs. We were discussing what would it mean if we had to cancel spring sports. We were we were playing out some some draconian cuts in the middle of the year that that I felt like would have really just ruined experiences and gotten people so upset, right? But we froze our budget, right? I mean, it from January until July 1, we purchased nothing except what we absolutely had to. You probably heard parents talking about why is there no paper in the schools, right? I mean, what's happening? What are they going to run out of toilet paper? I mean, we got we we emptied out our supply classes, right? But and we still ended

099with about a 300 325 um deficit and and thank Portland for giving us that supplemental. I got to tell you, I was very stressed out that night in June, biting my cuticles, hoping the good people in the town who came out for that town meeting were going to vote for that supplemental and and you know, thinking, "Oh my god, what would happen if they voted no?" Right? What what would I do? What would I what would we do? Right? So, that's not something we want to live again. That that was a that was a very very bad experience for all of us and it affected the whole school district right now. This year we're not in that position, right? We are in a much better position. You you heard me say to Stephanie um yesterday,

100how are we what is our surplus? We're in a surplus. It's not huge surplus, but there's a surplus there. We're going to we're going to land the plane this year and I'm not going to be asking for a supplemental, you know, again, unless a family moves in or something happens or other things. But, you know, hey, I'll boil our way, right? I mean, there are things that I can't control. Like if if Thank you, Tom. You're a hero. Right. If if I was now looking for $286,000 in the board of ed budget to pay for a boiler, right? Right back in the deficit. That that's how fast these things can happen. So, what I brought to you truly is the minimum that we need to to replicate this year's services next year. Um there are

101two two things that that are very much on my radar and and you know I just want to be clear I can't control them right now. We don't know what Harford is going to pass for the bianual budget and how much they're going to fund the excess cost grant, right? That's that's the big one. That's the one that is like sort of like a catastrophic insurance policy for very expensive high need students. And we we budgeted for that. Stephanie's put that 70% placeholder in there. Tim, thank you for asking that about that last night. And we know that our state legislators have heard us and the board of ed wrote a very nice letter here saying you you know you need to live up to your obligation. These are unfunded the definition of unfunded mandates

102that you know we're we're carrying out our responsibilities under the Individuals with Disabilities and Education Act um to to meet these and you know we share that burden. But just like happened last year and this year, that amount came in lower. Now, we screamed and they passed a supplemental and it we got a little bit more, but that could happen again next year. And and that's something that is very much a concern. The other big concern I have is I don't know what's happening in Washington DC. I mean, the federal department of education's going somewhere. Someone's going to oversee how they the the idea funding and title funding is going to come to us. I'm not sure yet, but we get about a million and a half dollars out of the federal government. Right. Is

103that going to be there? I don't know. Right now, if it's not right, if if the ECS formula is reduced or we don't get the title or the IDEIDA funding, unless they repeal the laws that require us that create that unfunded mandate, we are not cutting our services for our most disabled and needy students. That is an obligation, a legal obligation that we have. We will go somewhere else to to find those reductions, right? or I'll be back here on bended knee with my tin cup out asking for a supplemental or going to Hartford. So, my feeling is this isn't the year that we want to make those any kind of reductions with those two big unknowns out there. Um, what's the worst case scenario for us? The worst case scenario is the best case

104scenario that I get to the end of next year and I'm running a surplus, right? Because to your point, if I get to the end of this year and I'm running a surplus, hey, Bob has we have fund 11 and we have our school lunch fund that we put it into and thank goodness that's been there. That's Bob will tell you that's what's kept he's nodding his head kept us afloat, right? So yes, look here, I'll be honest. we're going to get to the year, end of the year, if I have a 100,000 150,000, you know, that's that's either air handling unit or put it in a maintenance fund and sit on it in case the next boiler breaks, you know, because that's the other thing we have to be aware of is you all

105know the condition of the schools. A boiler just went it. It's only a matter of time. Now, this strategic planning committee is working hard. Recommendations are coming. Um, but that that's not necessarily the operating budget. So what am I saying? I'm saying I'm I'm anxious. I don't want to be last year. I want to be this year. If you reduce me, you know, it's coming out of people or things, right? And I don't have a lot of things in there. I've really put together the minimum budget. I am anticipating some surplus this year. So if there was some small amount cut, I'm you wanted to be a team player. I'll throw a number out there. you were to say, "Cut 50,000, Charles. I have a $150,000 surplus at the end of the year. Certainly, I

106can pre- buy some things, some toilet paper, paper, you know, maybe bite into some of those Chromebooks or or other things that we need." It would just would mean that it's less that we would be able to set aside for fund 11, which is again another fund that that we very much have leaned into to when things are breaking, which I know you've heard from Bob, but I feel like you I don't need to convince you anymore that that that is happening regularly as evidenced by this this new boiler situation. So if if you were going to ask me to cut anything, I I really wouldn't go anywhere north of $50,000 in in this environment that that we're in with Hartford still working on its bienial budget and those things that are happening in Washington

107happening. I think we because if those cuts come, we're still providing those services. it's going to be the the regular general ed side of things or we're in a freeze or I'm back here asking for a supplement. So, it's it's a very complicated year. Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you. I think um I think the other thing that um that's mixing into this whole pot is we've got I think three things that are factors that are above and beyond just the numbers that we're talking about. Um obviously the school project and what we're going to do with the schools and how that plays out and that involves some pretty big dollars, right? Either in capital improvements or if a school is closed and how how do we renovate to new reimbursement rates for the state.

108So that's that whole sticky wicker right now that's being worked on by a number of people, number of smart people. So that has a cost to it and some other things that go with it. Uh we have a reav going on later on this year. So that's going to change the mill rates and hopefully reduce it down by a point or two based on what happened last time. So that changes the nature of the town willingness for people to move in. That may have an effect on what we do in a positive way. Um also the increase in business that we have is also going to generate some more income right for the town. Um brand new place is up and running. We'll hopefully we'll fill that 99 apartment unit building by end of year.

109Next year is another one. So those will add to the tax base. So we see a lot of things kind of you know the waters are kind of raising up in terms of positive. So you've got those things that I think are worth at least talking about as we look at the numbers here as well. But we have to remember with Brainer Place those tax revenues are very slow coming in right over seven years. Right. So, it's nothing that's going to make a difference to us in the next two, three, four years. If I'm not mistaken, I think, and I don't have wish I brought that tonight. I um and I'll make sure for the next meeting I will, but it's still pretty substantial, but it it will be much more in six years, five

110years as we set it up before. So, couple hundred,000 I believe um for next year, but again, I'll get the numbers on that. But you're right, that's going to that's going to roll up. we don't have that same thing with the spa and that's going to add some stuff. So, I think we have we have a lot of good things happening that will add to the tax base that we generally don't talk about during budget times, but because there's so much happening right now, but I I I see your point on that. The reevaluation isn't a plus neither. By the way, it doesn't add that much. It might go down bill rate, but your investment is going to go up. So, even last one, my taxes went up when it went down. It's the same

111dollar amount because you still have to raise the same for what you're spending. I'm just saying it's not it's not going to No, but where I pay less taxes. But you're making it sound like you want No, no, no. Change the mill rate, but you're sus. Well, what I'm saying and what I'm saying about the mil rate is it makes it more attractive for someone to come into town possibly. But the dollars are the dollars. Oh, yeah. I'd rather go to a town that has a 29% or 29 mil rate. So, well, we're get that's part of my point, but our mill rate's getting up there, right? You know. Oh, yeah. you know, compared to some of the surrounding towns in the area. No, absolutely. I mean, right now, uh, the mil rate percentage, as

112you know, is 3.4% increase on the mil rate, but the percentage of of of spending overall, 4.6 is the number. So, from what we did last night, uh, Tom's total was 39,795. Actually, let me ask you this. Tom, with the stipen for the firemen, why was it 224? I think it Yeah, it was 52 people originally. But even that, if it's already eight, that's only increasing at 200 a person. No, no, the calc the calculation that was in there accounted for 52 of the 58 they right. So when we got that number, it corrected and added the other six in, which means the full stipen had to get added in for those six. Okay? And then the 200 that we increased the stipen for all of them on top of that. So you had six

113at the full people at 2,000 is 12,000 and you had the what the 58 another 10,000 for the other 200. Right. Yeah. Kind of was so the stipen was in the budget is for 52 people. Right. Right. It needed to be in there for 58 because they have 58. So, it's probably good that we caught that. So, it was just an over. So, that was a mistake we caught. Yeah. So, in reality, I mean, the amount that that's almost double the amount that we were proposing, but that's that's a mistake that we caught that had to be repaired. It's fluid though. This year they could have 50 active members. They would have 65 active members. Absolutely. You don't know how many are going to be active. We're guessing that it's 58. Yeah. Well, I think

114is it authorized 58? Is that the is that author like do we have an authorized number? If if we had 60 members meet the active criteria, do we do we pay 60? Yeah, there's there's no limit to it. That's why we have Yeah. So our average used to be 64 changed to 62, you know, did 20 years and then we locked in around 58 which gives us so we can range but 58's probably a safe number for the past few years. Why was 52 in there? Was it just a mistake or is that how many you have right now? Well, if you have active that that could have been from a previous year, but it doesn't doesn't matter. So, we saved on that line item for a year that we might not have been so

115active for what reason or another. I mean, you could lose six guys, Rick, that missed three calls. They got 10%. So, you could just miss three calls and be 9.999% and not get the So, we have to change. But that number and speaking for the chief, you know, it is a good it's a safe number to get that or be under it. So it gives us a buffer. All right. Which is, you know, service. Well, if we were talking about trying to stay as close as we can to the original budget last night, we added 39795. We take away the 16,000 the open space and the only other thing that was mentioned here that could be possible as the part-time librarian. It would bring us down to 5,795 increase from what we were originally given.

11639795. Yeah. - 16 - 18. [Music] You're talking for the the part-time librarian 18,000. Yeah. I'm I'm not in favor of of eliminating that position. Of course. Well, for for all the reasons. Well, your budget. I know you're not. Well, save a lot of time. Save a lot of time by not putting it. Sign off on it. Let's go. No. No. I I think Well, let let me ask let me ask the rest of the board. I'm still with Rick about we got to get this percentage down. It's like unsustainable. Like we've done nothing in now what four, five hours. Yesterday with our special meeting, we raised car taxes $334,000. We didn't raise it. We shifted it. Didn't raise that much. We shifted extra revenue. We raised $334,000. That was the difference. And it made

117almost no difference to our budget, to our our mill rate. Yeah, we didn't take anything out of capital. We nickeled and dimed the budget itself and we've asked nothing from the board of ed. He offered us 50. I mean, that was like, well, thank you, but I was thinking we were going to be higher than that. Like, I was more around 200,000. Sorry, Charles, but but I want to get this bill rate under like under a one, but we need to cut like another $200,000 out of something. I'm not. This is not sustainable. Like it's every year it's something. Everyone's pulling nose hairs crying. Woe is me. But we can't make everybody happy. It's that's life. It sucks that I know Mike, you're you're a yes guy. We all know that. Like you want to

118make everybody happy, but you can't. No. Got to tell people no. No. No. Michael, I'm not a yes guy. I'm Charles gave you the budget. Did you counter him at all like the past selection do? I you accepted it and you passed it all. I have. No, we have had discussions about the numbers. Um, but you didn't change anything. There were there were no, you know, you made no changes to the budget when they handed it to you. Did you make a change to it? No. They were discussed as they were doing the budget. You made no changes. That's what I'm asking. The question is, did you make it Charles goes here's my budget or did you just pass it along to us or was there a change once? I was just I think what

119Mike said is that he was engaged in conversations during the development of the budget with and I see Charles shaking his head. Yes. Because I know that's how they do and so there were discussions. So the Yeah, but there was no changes. There were discussions at the end of the discussion. And I'm assuming I'm assuming that it influenced it because the numbers I got. Um you're assuming it. But did it? No. He had his budget set and you accepted it. That assumption. You just accepted it and passed it along. That's all he did. You said yes. Okay. Pass it along. Guys, here's here's the reality of the situation. We're in a small town with 6,000 plus taxpayers. Nearly 90% of this budget is contractual. Our town employees, whether they work for the board of education

120or whatever, you know, you said earlier, Rick, that people that have a job are looking to get that increase every year and people are retired don't. We employ people who have contract. We just did a bunch of contracts and they are looking for their percentage increases. If 90% of our budget until we get more business in this town to support us, it's hard to hold the line on our taxes. If 90% of what we're taxing people for includes budget increases for employee salaries, it's just that's reality. if if you want to hold this thing at at at zero or under 1% on a regular basis, then you're not going to have any employees because they're not going to be getting a raise ever. So, it's, you know, it's reality. But that's the argument is adding

121another employee. When it comes to next year's budget season, that's already in there and it's non-negotiable to get rid of that employee. And we're just talking about, but remember what happened with the police department and you see this in any business that you're in. A person with tenure gets paid higher. And you always have that rotation. What happened to our police department? Our total salaries in the police department dropped when we had a number of people that retired. We have the same thing, I'm sure Charles will speak to, with our teachers. Our teachers rotate in and out. We have a lot of young teachers. The reason that we he was able to save a lot of money on the benefits is because we got teachers fresh out of college that are still on their parents'

122insurance, but also as the police retire, we're paying more into the pension to cover the people that are retired. So, we're not really saving money. We're just moving the money from column A to column B. But you but you did help negotiate some changes to the contract to help us in that regard. But that won't help us until the new guys retire in 20 years. All I'm saying is that we're we're here trying to cut this thing down to zero. And I'm I'm basically saying that that's trying to cut it. No, but no, but you're you're trying to if you're trying to if you had 90% of your your town employees who have negotiated contract negotiated contracts with salary increases and you're trying to hold the line, it becomes somewhat unreasonable. I mean, we can

123The difference is though, if you're talking percentage increase and he's talking mill rate increase. I agree because he could have a zero mil increase and we could still have a three or three and a half increase in the budget, right? So, all the contracts would still be covered, right? But you you all I think everybody agreed that what we had on our purchase line that we were discussing earlier, our capital improvements are all important. We can't there's no there's nothing really. I mean, I all I'm trying to I'm just trying to bring a little reality to this conversation, you know. Well, back to what you said earlier, the the change in the car tax dropped it like 32 Yeah. of a mill about a third of a mill. That's what we That's what we picked

124up. And then we added a little bit back with some stuff. And honestly, we didn't add much back because with the catch that we had with the 52 to 58 for the fire department. There's there's really not a lot that we add in dollars. No, I'm just going off the paper that Tom gave us. Yeah. The total on the top was right. 39 39 change. Right. So, so, so they so they answered the question, Mike, it doesn't matter the same thing and I lose. So, I'm just basic I'm putting it on the mic so people out there hear absolutely this is how I feel like I'm not happy with this. When they pull the vote, I'm probably going to say no. Right. So, I'm just That's all I'm saying. So, so you've been involved in

125the process. Where would you cut the money? Where would you find that money? $50,000. I would take more out of them. I would probably take a hundred and a 100 out of the general government's side, 100 out of board of ed if that's got me to my 200. But why? Where's that 200 number coming from? Like why just Well, I'm trying to because I think around 200,000 gets us under a mill under the mill rate of what impact do you think that would have on the education of the kids in town if that if he has $200,000 less to do it? What class? What question is that? What do you mean impact? That's his decision. I can't tell what he can cut, right? Bro, I know he can cut custodial paper towel. I don't care.

126Like, wherever he cuts it. All right. So, the kid can't wipe his butt. I don't know. He gets to decide what to do with the money. I just said he's got to do $100,000 less. Right. I can't tell him what to do with it. Oh, he's here. Let's ask him. A couple things about the the the budget development process, right? So when I give Mike the budget, it's not my budget. It it's the board of ed budgets, right? And and the board of ed spends months with workshops and and discussions and Mike is very much aware of those as Ryan was and Susan was before. And um you know, we have lunches and discussions and and you know, the last thing I I want to do to to Mike or any first selectment is is

127bring a budget that that you're not aware of or going to have to cut for me, right? I mean that's that's not the that's not how the the process is envisioned. I I make my budget. I share it with the board. Board has many workshops and discussions and ultimately the board will will have a budget and in in the full light of day and fully transparent and you know we we want to work very collaboratively so that that you know you know we're not we're not surprising anybody. Now, um, you're right. If if if you cut the budget, I have to go back to the it's you're cutting you're not cutting Charles's budget. You're cutting the board of ed budget. It's different than the other department, right? I would go back to the board of

128education and and and they will decide on their cuts. Definitely. I will make recommendations. Now, if if you said 100,000, right? Okay. That my my feeling is all right. That's look at I'm going to get to the end of the year and and I'm going to hope that no new families move in with with special needs students and no new boilers blow up and and that we end the year with a surplus, right? And and if we end the year, and I don't know this number, so I'm making it up, with a $150,000 surplus, and you've cut me a hundred now, maybe I can go out and buy the paper and the toilet paper and and and things. That just means there's less to put towards fund 11 that that Bob needs. So yes, if

129you said 100,000, you know, am I going to go start is that is that going to destroy me in a in a $25 million budget, especially when I'm I'm I'm anticipating a surplus this year. Look, it I'm more comfortable with 50 75. Okay. 100. I'm okay. starting to get a little anxious. You cut me 200 now I'm now I'm anxious, right? Because there are also other things in the budget like I don't know how many kindergarteners we're going to get, right? I'm budgeting five teachers of kindergarten. If we have a big class of 120 kindergarten students, I'm going to need a six kindergarten section. The board of ed goes through this every year. A new student might need a par profofessional. We're going to man lots of things that that come along. So in fairness,

130you know, $100,000, that's a haircut, you know, at this point, okay, if you were saying to me, last year cut 100,000 when I was in a a million dollar deficit, you you would have have seen me have a a lot more anxiety this year. If you're saying I'd be more comfortable with 75 so that I can get some money over to fund 11, I'd be better with that. 50 I could live with. 75 I could live with. 100. I think I can make some reasonable recommendations to the board. Beyond that, well, that that that that starts to, you know, put me in a more compromised position. And and by me, I mean the board of education and and the students who who the board supports. I just want to say I appreciate your comments a

131lot. And it really you that's very much mirrors the discussion that the board had when you guys were voting on which level of increase that you were going to go with and I appreciate that consistency a lot. Thank you. And you've you've seen we've worked closely together, Tim. You've seen it on the the board side, right? I mean, and and Tim, I hope you will tell everybody. We don't put placeholders. We don't put ghost placements. We don't we don't pat. We we ask for what we need. And then Stephanie's making her reports every month. And we're we're watching it closely. And And you lived through that with us last year, Tim. I I I can't do that again. I just I can't do that again to you or or to us or or to everybody

132that was affected when we had no way to laugh the kids. and and and I was holding the line and we had to do what we had to do. So cutting too much it it it just it's dangerous and but it's better when we're ending the year with a surplus because of things like you're asking now and what Bob's looking at. And that's part of what's going to make the conversation we're about to have over the next few months as the strategic planning committee brings forward recommendations because you're absolutely right. The only way that you're going to reduce the budget significantly is to reduce your overhead. And the only way to reduce the overhead is to reduce the number of people that you need. And right now, yes, on the board side, it it's expensive

133to run three small elementary schools. That that's the reality. Um, regardless of what the strategic committee comes back with or how the the town vote goes, will we budget season next year, whether I'm not here or you're not here or whoever is not here, will we be talking about two elementary schools? But if things had gone differently in November, I would have a you I would be asking you for a very small percent increase, if any at all, to reduce to two. Y and then the next year, two years down the road, even less when we reduce it to one. So definitely if the strategic planning committee brings us an actionable plan that we get the community to support with the bonding referendum maybe in June this time next year if we are going from

134three making a move with swing space temporarily to two there's a significant chunk of savings there that I would that I might be coming to I might be having to go to the state to justify the MB. This is my question. If it gets voted down at referendum, are we still going to have three schools or would we close one to save money because we know we have the space? That's a re that that's an excellent question. Here's the problem with that. If you closed Valley View right now, really View is the only one that you could potentially close in terms of square footage, you could fit preK2 at Gildersleeve and 35 at Brownstone. Here's the problem with that. Gildersleeve is not designed as an early childhood center. So our prek and our K classrooms

135would have no bathrooms which would make it impossible long term for our prek and K teachers to service the kids who are coming to them needing potty training especially in September and October right now. Could we make that work for a short term and ask our prek and K teachers for a short term to to manage that? We could. But would it be fair to say to them that for the next 25 years of your employment here, you're not going to be able to have access to facilities that your three and four year olds need to be sanitary? To me, that would be an unreasonable ask and I promise you would result in grievances and really bad will with our teachers and their association. So, do we have the space to do it? Sure. Should

136we do it long term? Absolutely not. Could we do it shortterm as swing space and ask our teachers to make that work? We could. And you know, and I've been very candid with the strategic planning study planning committee. I also have tremendous anxiety about the well-being of our third and fourth graders at Brownstone. That is a 1930s high school. That if are we really going to turn a 1930s high school into a 2030 elementary school without major upgrades to things like safety? We could do it short term and I swear we'll build a fence around it to keep those kids off that road, but long term it's not the right move. So in an emergency or for a short term we could make it work but as a plan for the next 25 years without

137really thoughtful process to go through I I think it would be a huge mistake and and you know could result in grievances or god forbid somebody get hurt. Any other questions? I would just say for me, you can't go fast enough to bring us a proposal on these schools because I was talking about this back in 2017 and 18 when I was on the board of selectment. It's gone. Three schools is is unsustainable long-term at the unsustainable not unsustainable. Yeah. Yeah. invest and we haven't been able to and it's it's that built-in extra cost of whatever a million dollars a year which directly affects the numbers here. Well, I I just I hear we have the opportunity for maybe between 50 and $75,000 in a cut we could make now that wouldn't create a crisis

138on the part of the board of that. Is that something people have interest in considering? [Music] Uh, I would consider that and I would say to um Mike Hernandez that to get down to one mil, we're going to have to cut about 148 to 150,000 overall to get my math is right. So that's too much to ask I think the board of ed or based on what Charles has said. Um we'd have to take we'd have to take some from the government side if we got and ideally that's where I'd like to see us be is around around the mill. But um I on our side I'm not sure all of us have the stomach or you know it's on our side we took the 16 from open space that's all we've taken so far.

139Yeah. I guess if we if it if it came to a vote, I'd mean I I liked our librarian's comments, but if if we had to cut something else, I guess I would go with that position. So, so right now with the 16 for open space and let's say we do 75 a board of that that put us $91,000 down combined. We could call that a start, right? Let's go. Let's go around the bed. Just get everyone's temperature on this. Jim, um it it's interesting in that I think that the probably the biggest listening to you know Dr. And the biggest really risk is um to cutting the 75 would be you know downstream probably you know obviously borrowing no emergencies would be the reduction of fund 11 opportunities which part of what we're trying

140to do here is figure out how to f fund monies to help do work in the schools right and that's fund 11 kind of helps with that so um but I also if it helps us this year those are other things we can figure another way to fund when we need to, if we need to. Okay, I echo that. That's a good point, Jim. I mean, every time that there's been a crisis for funding that comes before the board, it's I don't think we ever said no. No, we stepped up because usually we're in a position where the the sort of the u the adverse effects of saying no worse than you know but we also are usually in a position where we've seen some additional clarity on either other revenues or other savings that

141we've been able to realize right I think that's one of the things that Tom was talking about earlier is that we've been able to use some of those monies when we know we've been generating some of those surpluses to then attack some of those but we don't know those when we're at this stage So if if we need to, we'll have to do the same thing again. Hopefully hopefully we won't need to. Hopefully we'll boil as a last until we can, you know, and things like that. And hopefully three weeks we've got a a good plan. Bob, go ahead. So we talking about 50 75 or 100 would be a I'm suggesting 75. 75 plus R16, but I wouldn't want to go any further than that. open not the library position. So it not feel

14216 for the open space. Okay. When you said you didn't want to go any further, we just No, the 70 the 70. We can find more, but I that's one I was for the same reason Jim just mentioned trying to fund these guys. I was really thinking about 50 grand education, but I think to be fair, I think we should try to find a little more on on the downside too. you want to eliminate. Look for a little nothing on the water, right? So next Oh, please. You have any money? So, you know, I talked about the sidewalks earlier. The the funding that's in the capital budget for the sidewalks for next year, that's a grant that hasn't gone in yet. So, we could just not apply for that grant and significantly reduce that, you

143know, say 50,000 to leave some money in there for contingency on the other two projects. Um, it's an idea and that still lets us do that's kind of what I was guaranteed to get the funding anyway. What sidewalk? Go ahead. I was I asked what sidewalk was that money going to be by? High street. That was going to be High Street to continue from Crimson Heights and then going up to the high school area which would match up with, you know, the road work that we've been doing everything like that. It really completes and puts a a nice bow on High Street. How much money are we putting in versus what the grant is? So the grant um assume it's going to be like half a million dollars. It's somewhere between three and eight, but

144it's whatever we estimate. We say we want 489,000. You know, if that's the estimate, then we potentially get that grant for that amount. Um so yeah, there we would be losing that, but it would save on today's budget. Um, we could potentially still apply and then if we get the project, come back to the board to get funding to do the engineering. Ryan, how much give up $75,000? He'll give up a $600,000 grant, right? Yeah. It seems foolish to that. Yeah. Yeah. Unless Tom thinks there would be a different way to pay for it if we won the the award. Yeah, but I don't it's not a great idea, you know, to cut the 75. It's a it's an idea. Um, you know, I don't know. I can't tell you that we have the money

145there. I don't know if we would. I mean, we'd obviously have to There is, I think, a language that you say that you're going to have the the information be kind of design ready. So, we kind of would need to have that. Um, I guess that I guess you could do it a different a little bit different way. Maybe you take off maybe take 25 off and hope you can get the design done at 50. Is that something you think you can do? We could. Yeah, we could do that and at least get the design moving if we needed to come back and say, "Hey, you need another 20,000 to get this design done because I I would hate to wipe off any project." Yeah. Because it's it's overall a positive for Portland. Yes. Getting

146this especially near three of our schools. Yeah. Yeah. That would be foolish. So, um, yeah, we could try cutting 25 off that and, you know, we'll still apply for the grant, go through the process, probably be able to get the design going through, you know, the middle of next year, you know, being like December, January, I'm talking next budget season and then next budget season possibly say, "Hey, we need a supplemental or we need to." I'd feel a lot better doing that than taking the whole amount away. Yeah. I I think that's foolish to Yeah. do that for a $600,000 grant. Yeah, I agree. It's a definition of pennywise and pound foolish. Yeah, absolutely. So, we'd leave it in there at 50 instead of 75. Yeah. But we apply just as we do get it.

147That's a great problem to have. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think I think that'll work. I think that makes sense. I think we're all in favor of that. Yep. Okay. The other one on up here too is is this a I mean this is a tough one. I mean we've been trying to fund security cameras and fire alarm systems with security cameras throughout the various town halls and our town hall stuff is getting a little dated. Uh there's places where we're missing coverage. Um but I mean if that's something you guys want to push down the road or more that's the 20,000 on the bottom there of the list. Um yes, you know that would get pushed down. So that would get you you know be the 25 from that. Is it more for cameras or

148is it fire alarm? Is cameras. Okay. Mostly cameras. This part the part where it says townwide security cameras. That's for this alarm that was intended for cameras. Obviously it could be any of those things that are there. Guess I wouldn't want to take out a fire alarm. No, that's asking. That's a separate one. Well, I know when we talked you said it was like a catch all title that line item. Yeah. Yeah. And what we have in place now is functioning. It's just getting dated. Um, you know, the one piece that's not functioning, but we'll try to come up with a different source of funding for that uh as it relates to election supplies. So maybe we'll have to current operations because there's a requirement that the ballot box So we'll do our best to

149try to accommodate that the current operations and then the other stuff that we were going to attempt to do. Um I guess was not be done this 58,000 that you guys were 45,000. So should if we do $50,000 board of ed6,000 for open space 25,000 the sidewalk the sidewalk we're either we're at 111,000 we're at 136 136 if we do 75 yeah and that's 61 out of the um that's 61 out of the town side. Interesting. All right, everybody sharpen their pencils. Uh, first I want to just say thank you the board for all your hard work. Um, the proposal to add the $200 to each of the active members is goes farther than you can understand. You know, the the job that we do and what we get for it sometimes doesn't seem to

150equate, but do it because they like it and we're here for the town. what I can propose to you. I'm trying to sharpen my pencil here just so we can um not cut things like uh police cars and things that are, you know, necessity in capital. I have uh let's see, we're on page 138 for fire capital. I have first tool replacement for $25,000. Um what this is for is for when engine arrives, we need a combi tool um that will go on that truck. When I originally did the capital budget, I kind of wasn't aware that there was a fund balance left over of around $6,000. So, what I'm willing to do is give you 5,000 off of that 25. Going down to the AED replacement, I have $5,000 that I have allocated for

151AEDs. Um, what I'm what that gets me is two AEDs. They're around 22 to $2,500 a piece. Um, I'll push one out till next year and there's another 2500 that I'd like to give so I can cut uh 75 75 out of capital for fire just to help the process. Thank you. Everyone's got to sharpen the pencils. So, thank you. Thank you. We really appreciate it. Thank you. That would put us at 1435. That's 1435. Yeah, we're within about a grand of a of a getting to a mill increase. It was uh the Hurst tool replacement is 20,000 instead of 25. AED is 2500 instead of 5,000. 5,000. Yep. Yeah. 1185 at 50,000 for board of ed and 1435 at 75. What how much for the board of ed? Uh uh at 75 for board

152of ed it's 143. Yep. at 50,000 118.5. for the deductions total 118.5. Yeah. 118.5. At 50,000 for port and at 75 per is 1435 for all the deductions we've talked about so far. We're about 143 143. Okay. If we did 143.5, we would be a little bit over a mill increase. Is that what you have? Yeah. I had I figured out we needed 148,000 to get it down to a of deductions. 148 change to get down to one mil just over 4500. We're almost there. If anybody's stealing the library positions, I I support keeping it. Okay. Just I do just because of what I see the needs down there and I think there's there's other places I'd rather cut. Okay. Which one? I that's what that's what we're doing now. We we just found 111

153or 118. Let me look at my notes. What else did I Hey, Jen. How bad is that copier? It's bad. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I thought it was, but I just had to ask the question. get it back. You just take it out. Mike Hernandez has a question with the police overtime because it's paid back to the town. What if we just took it out of that because we're not deducting it from the police? Do that while we actually got without the expense up. Yeah. Well, the revenue side and the pediatric Michael illustrina. Good question. Looking at your budget and looking at it closely, is there anything that you think that you had in your budget that you'd be willing to part with or that wouldn't have a big impact on this year for you? The

154only thing is the 10,000 maybe for the multure head. Is that in your capital? It's in the capital. That's the second that the excavator that was purchased Mike was that called excavator attachments that is yes the majority of that was funded last year in capital needed more right this is the overage because it wasn't purchased last year the two grand for the trees Okay. Right. That was something we put in last night. I think that's I think that's more important to keep take the the 2000 way up the tree service. Take that back. Yeah. the $2,000 that Yeah, because you got to pay for that head, right? You already you already paid for part of it. Yes, we funded funded part of it. We haven't even the rest of the fun. Yeah. This is the

155purchase that put us over the top. No, like if they're holding it. No. Right. But if we don't give you that extra, then you're not going to buy it this year. Right. Right. Okay. You could function without it for now. How much was How much was that number on the head? I'm just I can't find it,000. It's called excavator attachments. It's in 135 135. So I thought we were leaving that in. Well, we are leaving it in, but I'm just asking questions about it because I didn't I wasn't We funded 20,000 for it last year. It wasn't enough. So they put 10,000 more in this year to complete the purchase. And obviously it's something they must need if we roadside clearing. It it would be used every year all the time from spring till fall.

156Is it a cutting head? Yeah. Yeah. Like a brush cutter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we should look at that. Stays in 2000 for trees comes out. Yep. We're at 120.5 and 145.5. The only thing we had was the only addition. And we saved some bag money there, too. We That's about That's all in the Yeah, we got And at this point, that gets us to about one or 145. Oh, you're shade over a mill. Yeah. Yeah. If that's the goal. You can respond mostly. Is that 76 or two? Library questions. Jen, back up here. Jen. Hey, Jen. You have a library question. You can't get the CL. You mean if you have a chart set um on the repairs line I just I see in past years it was like it was 615 then

157it was 364 and then this this current budget year it was 2000 and you're carrying that forward. Just what is the repair? if it's the copier, we could we could save some money there. So that's any that's any repairs for items. And so it it does it does fluctuate a bit. We like we don't use it if we don't but when we do need it, we need it in that line. And so I think that it's usually funded at $2,000. That that funding request level has been pretty stable. It's just that's how much we used for the other two years, not how much. Yeah. Because it was underutilized those other two years. Yes. And you I mean you this is a tough question. We may not know the answer. Yeah, we won't know. We won't

158know. That's legit. That's a good question. Um I can't and I can't pull that from um I would be able to pull that in the library, but I can't because it's in the We're just sleeping the couch questions now. I can see that. You know, 1500 there would be adequate. You could probably go down to 1500 for that. Um, the only other the only other place you could squeeze me for would possibly be service contracts, but that makes me really nervous if you don't want to be hot in my merry flood room when we have false summer in the fall. Like, oh, we never question Tom on his service contracts. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, it was the only that's the only other item that's kind of escalated. Yeah. A lot. But yeah, you want to

159take the budget. We just might need to come to you if it's another cold winter. Sweater 99. I'm sorry, Tom. Which line is that? It's fuel. I'm on hot heating fuel. Oh, okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. So, we taking off how much do you think and Tom? Leave that at 1405 145. Yeah, that's $725. And then could we do Jen? Could we do that 1,500 on equipment rental repair? We I think you're saying Yeah, I we could try. I just would need to come to you if I have something to fail. That would give us $500 more. Yep. Yeah. This is $200. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But she didn't know how much she spent this year. And the previous two years were 600 and 300. But the odds of that same light going out is less now.

160The other lights I cannot speak to. So, we're starting to get deep into the smaller numbers unless somebody else has something. Well, I know we talked about this. I'll just say I come back to the letter from Sarah um Elliot that she says, I'm requesting we increase our transportation budget from 32,000 to 34,000, but ideally 36,000. a 12.5% increase that will have a profound impact. I mean, that's from the department head. To me, that's I'm fine with that. The number she's asking for. I'll disagree. I think, you know, I mean, not I mean, every senior citizen needs a ride service. We're providing for the ones that do. Would that throw us over the top where we're trying to get? I think it would. It would it's 2,000. Is that right? Yeah. It would get us

161to 40 148750. What would you think? I have from my math it would 148750. So, we could maybe decrease it by less than the full,000 128. Well, I gota got to redo the math. Yeah, I think it was it was 148 and change. Thank you all. I had one mill at with a need $148,334 reduction. Hey Tom, would you be willing to plug in this number and let us know what the adjusted mill rate would be? your status 101. Okay. I mean, we're starting to get into the 750729. Say that again. Wait. Meaning expense reduction. No, expenditures. Not following the time. Good. What did we just take off? A library was library was Yeah. 5 fuel was 75. Yeah. But 500 and 750 500 for the the repairs and 750 for the fuel. Right. I

162think the fuel was 725 actually. Oh, you're probably right on that. I I think I just did the And you Oh, you you lowered the equipment and repair and rental. The repair came down to 1500. 1500. Yeah. Yeah. And the fuel was 725. Go down, 1500. I didn't think we did that. Oh, I thought we proposed that. I don't know if we decided on it. Yeah, I don't know what page that's on now. It's on 99. I think Tom said that should stay. Tom gave us the 725 on the fuel. Right. That's where we're at right now. Right. Right. Oh, right. And then I suggested putting the van back to 36,000. Another two. So I have total of 148750 or 123 250. Someone else want to check their numbers as well. This is from double

163check what you have. So I think we're pretty Yeah, I think we're pretty close. I mean, we're looking for pennies right now on this thing. Tom, do you have all the numbers? That could be that could be the best answer. That would be a no. I have 148 225 1425. That's Yeah, I could be off a little. I don't know. We could so many iterations, but So 148 148 or 123. Yeah. Right. I don't know. I think I'm going to rest in my case, right? I think we took a good whack at it. I I think we did. I think we did, you know, and people stepped up and appreciate. Yeah. I can't Everybody came in and gave a little saw us floundering. So, so let's let's get to the the big decision left over.

164So we we have we have considered 50,000 or 75,000 from board of ed. Uh the 148 number either 250 or 750. We'll confirm the numbers is with the 75. So 123, right? Yeah. 75 of that. And if it's 50,000 from board of ed side, it's 123. What's what's 20? Yeah. So we double check. I got like one Yeah. Okay. What you have? I got 122 and change. Okay. Yeah. like 123 250. We'll double check. Okay. Are are are you throwing donations? Yeah. I mean, Nathan Striker, our grounds department. Um, yeah. I mean, we run a lean budget. Uh, but I think going back through the years, I think we could reduce our ground supplies. I know that's a something we've always tried to build up. Um I think last year we were we had about

165four grand left over. I mean prices are stabilized. We do like 2500 bucks. What page are you on? I you know I don't have Okay. Oh, wait a minute. Hold on. Yeah. Thank you. I do. Okay. You're talking about Ground supplies. Yes. Your budget is 49,000. 49. [Music] What are you suggesting? Dropping it at 2500 bucks. How much did you say? 465. 46. Yeah. Go to 465. Speaking 2500 off. Okay. That helps. Anything else you want to add? as far as here. I wish. Thank you guys very much. I don't envy you. It's actually very helpful when you guys are able to look at it and find a better way for us to target. So, thank you for that. Right. Appreciate it. And bring it bring it to Tom also confirm. Oh, he's doing it

166already. Okay, great. Whatever you do, keep Tom informed. Whatever you do. Okay. Well, Mike, do you want to go over the list of what you have for numbers right now so we can all because I I think all sitting at various places on the table, it may be hard to hear. We have all have different things. Exactly. So, let's go through. Let's confirm that we have all the numbers here. Okay. Right. Our two columns 50 and 75 for board of ed. Wait a minute. Sure. What page? Wait a minute. Okay. [Music] Which which which number Tom or one property taxes prior years? It's 295 now. What are you suggesting? Another 3,000 down 169 500. What was that? It's property tax interest in leans triple012 on same on page five. And what's the number? 169.5. Okay.

167[Music] 3:30 to 3:30. Okay. [Music] Yeah, let's Yeah, let's please let's go over it. I got to get a clean sheet of paper. Okay, 100%. Go everything you wanted to. Okay, thanks. I scribbled scribbled over scribbled. I have the number 1575. Okay. Wait a second. Tom, what do you know the page you're on? [Music] 13500. We have it at 157295. Okay. 1729. Can you repeat that please? 57295 and 25. Yeah. 257. Which line was that? Which one? Was line 11003. Right. I have 22,000 page page please. I was that was 59. Thank you. 21 21 should be no increase. [Music] H. That's 613. So that's going down. No. 468. Okay. Yep. I got 2500 [Music] right. Yeah. What? What? What's your new number there, Tom? 38,000. Yeah, we talked about lowering that to 36. What

168What page are we on? Uh 97. This is for the the driver stipens. Oh, right. Well, let's see. Why don't we see what we get? I think there's some strong feelings on both sides of All right. So, we're leaving it at 38 right now. Y Okay. 96 through4,500 $750. Wait, how much is that? 750. 750. [Music] 7257 I have two. Yeah, that's the same. [Music] Here's a transfer of open space. 9012 I have at 7750,500. I missed that one. What was What was the last page 107? Yeah. 900 12 12. Um, that goes down to 760500 instead of 813. 760500. The one above that is 50,000. Yep, I got that. Okay. [Music] 50,000 we doing that. Can we do all the others and then work back to that? Yeah, it has 50,000. Okay. 15,000 [Music]

169296 go back on now. Tom, before Tom, before you do that, could you repeat the uh the board of ed budget and the total budget number again? 21. Got it? number 296. Thank you. The mill is up 35.30. That's the mill 3530. Um, can you uh what's the overall spending increase? Thank you, sir. We appreciate it. General 351. I'll get back. Hold on. 127. Shoot. [Music] 5939003 bags and stickers on the bottom 39 95. Yeah. 97500 91500 Which one is that again? Tom Y and what's that number? 917500 917500. Got it. Instead of 970. Got it. Enter in Ry 4,000. Yep. Y number is 1 648 016. [Music] There is change on 138,000. [Music] Next is reconstruction on page 140. $50,000 the highway division may y got it 140 park [Music] 4000 1412 20,000 And

170then if you look at the very bottom of that page comes out to 164816 which equal to the number. Repeat that number again. 168 instead of 1700516 because That's the right number. That's what you just the one that found. So this So this was changes in that. Got it. All right. And that's all of them, Tom. Okay. All right. So that ends up at what? One, Tom, right? 1 mil. Is that what it was? Yeah. The final mill rate is 35.30. Uh town is 13.44 and board of ed. What's the difference? Let me do the math real quick. That was at 50,000 on board. Yeah, that's a 50,000. All right. And yeah, so government side is 13.44, board of ed is 21.86, total mills is 35.30. The increase or uh the the mill rate increase

171is 1.0. Yeah. Which is 2.93%. Right. And 2.93%. Yes. And the mill rate would be 1.0, which was our target, right? Yep. That's what we're shooting for with the assistance of many of those. Everybody. Everybody. Yes. Everybody. Everybody. Everybody. All right. I feel like we've gone about as far as we can. Is there anything else? Going once, twice, three times. Now, now listen, I have to say also, this process is something that we do every year and we put heart and soul into it and there's a lot of feelings and passion about it. We're trying to save dollars, but we're also trying to save either programs we like or things that we think will make the town better. Um, I'll continue to do that. I think all of you have done the same thing. So,

172I'm proud of how we did this. I feel comfortable with this budget right now. Um, and if there's any other discussion, let's go around one more time and just make sure everyone feels comfortable if anything has anyone anything else to say. We'll start on the other side. Just like anything when you have when you have a compromise doesn't make everybody happy but you you do what you need to do Michael said if we get it to a mill I'll be content with that so I'm good you feeling a level of content content I'm good content good I'm good I appreciate everybody's cooperation thank you to everybody I'm good yeah same same thing. Um, tough tough process and I think if we're not arguing about some stuff, so we're probably not doing our jobs up here,

173right? But thanks to everybody for looking at your budgets and and seeing where you could help as well. Yes. Very very It makes the job a lot easier when you guys can target um and help us find some savings in a place that's going to be less impactful to you versus us making, you know, less educated guesses at it. Absolutely. Um, and I think it's I think it's important for people to be aware of the process we go through. I mean, we don't just put these numbers out. Work real hard. We get the best we can and balance out with services that we have out there, too. So, um, all right. I feel good about this. So, next steps. Um, our next meeting will be next Wednesday, April 2nd, where we will do a final

174adoption of the budget. Uh, Tom will plug all the numbers in. uh each one of you will get a copy of the updated budget. Um I believe we've really covered all the questions. We will meet uh maybe have some final discussions or thoughts about going forward. And at that point once we adopt the budget um Monday, May 5th, uh the first Monday of May, there'll be hearing uh at the Portland Middle School cafeteria for those that want to come and express thoughts and achievements on the budget. Uh the referendum itself will be May 12th and we'll be at the high school middle school. Very good. All right. Thank you everyone. Appreciate it. Members, thank you very much. Motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. Second. All those in favor? I I we are