001And we'll start with the pledge of allegiance. Heather, you want to start us off, please? Sure. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. So, I'm going to make my comment. All right. So, as chair of the board of education, I want to acknowledge the board of finance chairs request that we further review our proposed budget. I want to be clear that this budget has already gone through several levels of review with the superintendent and the finance director. They've examined reductions, efficiencies, and alternatives that what before that what was before you reflects the minimum funding we believe is necessary to meet our educational and statutory responsibilities. We understand
002the pressure to reduce costs and we share the goal of being fiscally responsible. However, additional reductions at this point would not be administrative or abstract. They would directly affect staffing levels, student programs, and support services, and would also place us at risk of falling below standards required to maintain district and school accreditation. Accreditation is not optional, and it is not symbolic. It is tied to staffing ratios, program offerings, student services, and instructional quality. Reductions beyond this proposal would move us closer to non-compliance in areas that are closely reviewed by accrediting bodies. We remain open to continued discussion and transparency beyond this budget and we believe the proposal before you represents a responsible balance between fiscal restraint and our obligation to pro provide a sound accredited education for our students. We look forward to continuing to
003work collaboratively with the board of finance and appreciate the opportunity to clarify the rationale behind this budget. On a personal note, find it necessary to clarify that I do not report to another board chair, nor do I require instruction on how to perform my role. Any attempt to assert such authority is inappropriate and inconsistent with accepted governance practice, and I expect that that distinction to be respected going forward. Thank you. All right. Well, we are going to start with number 5A uh with the school finance. Oh, sorry. Citizens comments. We will start on Zoom. See any on Zoom? Any citizens comments in the room? All right. So, moving forward to number five, Board of Education budget meeting number two. We're going to start off with the Connecticut School Finance Project. Um, this is Erica. She's
004going to be giving us some information. >> I I appreciate you making the travel out here. >> I first want to just apologize. Um, yeah, it's a ride to you all. Welcome. And I'd like to point out the irony that until three years ago, I lived in Willamantic and this would have been so much easier. and then I moved to Lichfield. So, >> man, >> um it's a journey. Thank you for being here. >> So, I do apologize. There was an accident in Harford and you know how how life goes. So, >> um I do have I don't know if you all had a printed packet or not. >> No, not yet. >> I don't know if I printed enough. So, um I might have to ask you to share a little bit. Um >>
005I have one digitally. >> Oh, yeah. You do. Nice to meet you. Good to meet you in person. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. Here you go. Here you go. Here you go. Thank you. Um and would you like one? >> Oh, yeah. That'd be great. Thank you. >> And let me give you one if you'd like. >> And I'll actually have one to to narrate. Um I apologize. because I'm losing my voice and this is not great cuz I'm leading a conference this weekend. So, um, can you all hear me? Do you need closer to the mic girl? >> Okay, great. Um, so let me first tell you a little bit about our organization, the work we do, and then I'll walk you through the packet. Um, so the school and state finance project has
006been around since 2015 and we were formed really to look at how Connecticut is funding schools and to advocate for equitable funding. At the time, um, we were doing block grants and we had a formula that we weren't using. Now we have a formula that's fully funded and we'll talk about that and that's some of the work that we do. Um so we work on issues of education finance. Um I have the privilege of working across the state as you can tell like tonight was the like perfect point. Um educating folks on how school finance works um at both you know the state and local level um policy changes that are on the horizon. Um we um as an organization um write policy and advocate for change. And the policy changes that we have put
007in place have resulted in about $750 million in additional K12 funding over the last um seven years or so. Um so we do the work and it's mattered. Um and I I started this work as a parent of four. I'm also now a grandparent of two. >> Um, and my oldest is 30, 31, my youngest is 16, so I'm still doing this. Um, so so we ride this ride together, right? Um, so tonight we're really going to talk about um the state funding mechanisms and and how the state gets money to you all and what that means for your community, right? And and what you're left with. And I think it's um an incredibly important year to understand that. Um we've had a funding formula in Connecticut since 1988. This year is the first time
008it's fully funded. But what that means is there is no increase in state funding coming and and that that creates some some tensions on the local level. Um certainly some policy change opportunities and so we'll talk about that. Um I'll walk you through this. You can tell I've I've been doing this since 2016. Um I'm a mighty team of two. Um, as of 18 months ago, before that it was just me. Um, we have community members and advocates in more than 75 communities across the state. Um, so we're a mighty team of two. The organization as a whole is about 13 people. Um, so I want to just start out with an overview of of kind of spending for education, K12 education in Connecticut. And in total, right, what we're talking about right now is
009annually in Connecticut, we're spending about 13.7 billion. And you see three main buckets of that. And the smallest bucket of that is federal funding. Um, and if you were to look on this, you know, on page four, I think it's slide eight, um, what you're looking at from the federal government is about 8.2% of our our K12 funding. I just want to note that includes the ARPA COVID relief dollars. The usual percentage is roughly 4.2 to 4.4%. Um, and so that's an important note because you're going to see that drop. Um, and really what you're seeing is about 57% of education funding is from local sources. That's property taxes in 169 municipalities across the state. And our state invests about 35%. Right? So, um, we have a disproportionate reliance on local property taxes. And you
010all feel it. your board of finance feels it. We feel it as residents, right? Um so I want to break out what that looks like when we talk about Thompson and when we look at comparable communities. Um and so that if I can direct you to slide 10. Um what we're looking at is a comparison of Thompson, Palm, Woodstock, and Eastford. and and we'll walk through each of these just to get a sense. You're seeing the same breakout of federal, state, and local dollars. So, the local dollars are in green. Um, and below each community, we're looking at student demographics and in part because we have a weighted funding formula. And so those weights matter, those percentages matter. Um, and it's important to identify communities that are similar to you. Um, and sometimes we're looking
011at geographic neighbors because it helps to understand they may or may not be similar. So, we try to identify um similar communities, but that doesn't mean they're you. And I want to point that out because there are differences, too. So, in Thompson, you're spending $24,79 per pupil. And I also want to note just as a point, data at the state lags from data at the local level. And so you're going to be like, we have different numbers. You definitely have different numbers. And you should. There is a data lag. We use data from the state. So our data is behind your data. And I just want to identify that. Um to make it even more complex, the state doesn't release all of their data at one time. It filters in. So, we update as as
012we can with the most recent um available information. >> Um >> talking about months or years behind. >> Uh you're over a year behind. >> Yeah. And the funding formula actually runs a year behind, too. So, we can talk about that. Um, but the percentage of kids in your community that are identified in the formula as low income, those are kids who qualify for free or reduced price lunch. And right now, um, 44%. Right. Um, multilingual learners, um, you have 1.8% uh, students with disabilities. And this is like a really important piece to I'm going to kind of asterisk this because it's not in the funding formula. So, we'll come back to this, but it's it's about 21%. And we also identify Bill Pac students. That's black, indigenous, Latino, or other people of color that
013students self-identify. We have a racial funding gap in this state that is about $750 million as well. So, um we try to track that um because districts are disproportionately affected by that. And when you look across, I said you're spending about 24,79 per pupil. You can look at at Palm at 22,000, a little over 22,000, Woodstock at not quite 20,000, and Eastford at 22,000. Um, the headline on this slide tells you that the state average is about 22,000 and that y'all are spending about 2,000 more. I would like to note an average is not a target and and that should that I want to level set there. Um we have per pupil spending in this state that in any given year ranges from about 16,000 to somewhere between 45 and 55,000. Um so an average
014is an average not a target number. And I think sometimes people use it um differently and I just want to identify there's a lot of information in that average. Um so move on. Um I'm going to tell you how you get money from the state. We have in Connecticut what is called an education cost sharing formula. This is how the state determines how local school districts I got you. Um, and regional school districts get their funding from the state. Um, and there there are a few components I'm going to walk you through, but I want to start with why we have this. And this goes back to a lawsuit in 1977. And at the time the state was funding every municipality equally. Um so look across the state and everybody was getting the same. And
015the lawsuit said that that actually didn't take into consideration what differences we have in community wealth and that the state's role was really to look at at this equitably and to provide equitable aid. So that ruling came in 1977. The first iteration of the education cost sharing formula occurred in 1988. These formulas were implemented always in phasins, generally 10 years, and we never made it through a 10-year phase in. So, at some point, the phasin would be discontinued and block grants were utilized. Um and I think what happens then is this um discombobulated funding system right where the formula would also change. So the components that we have currently in the formula are not necessarily the ones that we started with. Um so so systems were starting over and over and over again. So in
0162017 a new formula was passed. It was implemented starting in fiscal 18 and this is the one that it was actually a 10-year phase in um community advocacy and legislative um work led to a shortened phase in. So the first time ever is this year that this formula has been fully funded. Um and that's exciting. But we need to talk about how do they figure out right how do they figure all of this out and how do they decide how much you all can afford to pay. So if I tell you that they need to figure out with this and it it's essentially utilized to figure out how much education costs in any given community and then how much your community is able to contribute to that. If we're going to if we're going to
017figure out how much it costs to educate kids, we need to kind of build some sort of foundation, right? So, the legislature set in 2013 a foundation amount. This foundation amount is what you would consider the cost it would be to educate a child who has no unique or additional learning needs. Um, a a general education student. That number is $11,525. You know, 20 2013 was the last time it was adjusted. If that number had been adjusted for inflation, it would be almost 16,000. And I I you know will tell you I don't think any of us as we're all doing that quick math in our head right of like even if you took a classroom of of 20 kids and and you're looking at 11525 and you're looking at educator curriculum space transportation. It
018it doesn't work right. Um, so the legislature said that it hasn't been adjusted. And so that's where the formula starts. And then if you flip to page eight of the packet, which is slides 15 and 16. Um, if if we start there, we do know that all kids are not the same. I told you I have four, right? I would love if at least two of them would get on the same page sometimes and be similar. Um so we know kids are coming to school with different and unique needs. The formula looks at that and looks at a couple of key things. And the first is kids who qualify for free or reduced price lunch defined as low income. And and for that they identify a 30% weight saying that it costs about 30% more
019to to educate kids who come from economic disadvantage. In communities that have more than 60% of their kids identified as as receiving free or reduced price lunch. There's a concentrated weight that is not you. Um and then for multilingual learners it takes about 25% more. Um and I want to note that that these numbers like the there is not a whole body of research in academia to back up these numbers right and and the same with the foundation weight and it is one of the challenges like Harvard doesn't publish a foundation weight. Nobody publishes the foundation weight and says adjust for your neck of the woods. Um and it it creates a a struggle and this is also a political process. The legislature sets this um and that creates vulnerabilities as well. So when you
020look at this, you might be looking at this and going some of these weights don't seem quite right. Um and I think that's fair, but money does matter. So if you look at slide 16, you're seeing that for a general education student, um we talk about 11525, these these weights are not like one or the other, right? They're not exclusive. So when you start looking at a child um that is both um qualifying for free and reduced price lunch and a multilingual learner, the difference is 17 over 17,000, right? We're understanding that it's going to cost the school systems more to educate kids who have additional needs. So that's that's where this kind of starts and lands. We are going to look at what that means for your community, but I want to talk about
021the other side of this because the two sides of this are first and foremost, we're going to put we're going to math the math and take the numbers of kids in this community, their needs, and identify what the state says it's going to cost to educate kids in Thompson. And then on the other side, the state is going to calculate essentially how much can you pay and how much does the state need to pay? And if you look at slide 17, the ratio is is is there. It's called the base aid ratio. And the state looks 70% at property wealth at your equalized net grandless per capita, right? How how much taxable property do you have? And then 30% at income wealth, median household income. how much can people in your community afford to pay
022in property taxes? Um, and they do that at that 7030 ratio. Prior to this iteration of the formula, it was actually at a 9010 ratio. So, um, that has changed significantly. Um, so with that, we're going to flip and we're going to look at, well, what does this mean? I'm going to grab a drink. because if I lose my voice, I'm going to let down a couple hundred people on Saturday and that won't be good. It's >> not good at all. >> So, we're having a state of the student conference. It's our second annual one. Um, and it covers all the topics of K12. I mean, that's fun. So, um, so let's talk about what this means for Thompson. Um, and as I get old, right, I'm like looking at the like if if you
023all aren't like moving the slide like I'm just going to own it. Um, and I'm going to do this and my son makes fun of me. That's what kid number four does for you, right? It's like like So the resident student count, 827 kids. You have 200 or 372 that that qualify for free or reduced price lunch. you have 19 multilingual learners um and you do not meet the concentrated poverty threshold. But essentially, and I want to flag this as I say this, I want to be very very clear. The state says with the glasses that that you're going to spend slightly less than 11 million to educate your kids. I'm going to tell you your budget definitely doesn't look like that. >> It doesn't. I haven't been a community that like looks like that,
024right? Um and flagging previously special ed, we still will talk about it, but that is nowhere in this formula, right? Um so I want to put that asterisk there. So the state says essentially I'm going to round up and say 11 million. That's how much it's going to cost to educate your kids. They're going to look at your equalized net grandless per capita um and and where you fall is below the median, right? You're at like 150 100 less than 159,000 and the state median is a little over 190,000. And they're looking at your median household income at like what is that like 95? You're below the 102 median. um they look at a couple of other things. You all are an alliance district and I want to identify this as just such an anomaly
025because you are you are an alliance district because you are actually grandfathered in because the law actually is a thousand a district of a thousand or more but you were a thousand or more when you were identified as an alliance district. Um and the alliance district comes with some pros and cons. they change how you get your ECS grant and and it becomes alliance. Um but also it it protects you if there are losses, right? You're stable. >> Um so I wanted to identify that. Um and what you're seeing in the public investment communities index is for the 19 most impoverished communities or or um in most economic distress, there are some additional weights to the base aid ratio. But essentially the state says like look out of all that we need to pay you
026about 34% of your cost and so you're our our full grant to you is a little less than 4 million. So 11 million we're going to do four you guys are responsible for the rest. It sounds really clear and easy and we haven't talked about special ed. Um, so when you all are building a budget, and I know you know this, but it's important to anchor in this, right? Um, what does this mean? It means that your share comes from property taxes. When you build the budget for the schools, you and I I do want to also asterisk this. Until last year, you pretty much knew what you were getting at the federal level. that is that is less stable over the last year and a little unpredictable and I want to acknowledge that. Um
027but typically you know um what your federal grant was is fairly stable and predictable. Um you typically know what your state grant is. It's at this point very predictable. Um there was a new law passed last year that says they have to let you know what it's looking like for next year in January. and in part because legislative session doesn't end until after you all do your budget. And so if if things are rocky, you need a heads up. And that wasn't happening until this year for the first time. So um and so what you're left with is the local or municipal contribution that says this is what it's going to take to deliver education to the kids of Thompson. Um, and we have an over reliance of property tax in Connecticut. We rely heavily
028on property tax. And it's um there's an irony there in that in the beginning I told you in 1977 there was a lawsuit that said, hey, like we all don't have the same wealth, right? And if you look at the range of wealth currently on slide 26 are there's a and this has grown the municipal fiscal indicators were released about a week ago. So we don't have that embedded in this yet but but with this slide deck there is about $70 billion in property wealth difference between our most property wealthy community and our least property wealthy community. Um, and so what that means is that property taxes vary immensely. And so if you look at at the next, you know, we can slide to slide 27 and 28. Um, you're seeing you're seeing Greenwich's um
029equalized net grandless per capita right now is at about 842,000. Um, and you see you all at 141,000. and you see what the quiet corner looks like, right? Um, and I will tell you that with the most recent numbers, Greenwich is is more um nearer to 1 million. Um, the growth in that space has been immense, right? And that means there's this like broad differential. And so if you look on slide 28, that's a map of property tax differential. And you can see it a little bit more on the western side of the state. And we just took a $350,000 home, but if you look at what a $350,000 home property taxes would be in Greenwich, it's not $3,000. But in Waterberry, it's $11,000, right? And like when you think about that and you say,
030"Well, you can't buy a $350,000 home in in Greenwich. It's fair. like you could buy a million-doll home and still pay less in property taxes than you would on a $350,000 home in Waterberry. And this is this is a problem across the state. Um Hamen is higher than Waterberry. Um and and you see it and so it it matters, right? This reliance on property taxes matters. And then we layer on this cake special education. And so special education until last until 2025, right? So like last year, we passed a law in the in in the state actually creating a funding path for special education. Until last year, we were one of very few um states. The last I knew, we were in the company of Arkansas, West Virginia, and Rhode Island. >> And to be
031fair, Rhode Island is like part of us. It makes sense, right? But um it's not a great space to be in. Um and and to be clear, special education numbers are growing and costs are growing. and and what we did in 2025 and I will I will hit on it. Um but it it's not it's not a game changer and and it's a start. Everything is a start. Um so how do we fund education uh special education? Mostly they say it's part of your ECS grant. They say it's in there. That money is also for special education and I can't I can't tell you where, right? I actually just don't have the mechanism because it's not identified. The state just says that's where it also is. So, um that's the primary funding path for special
032education. Um we have excess cost grant and what that means is once once you have spent four and a half times what your per pupil average spend is you can submit for reimbursement from the state at those costs above the four and a half times that fund is not fully funded. So you don't get reimbursed fully for that. Um and it varies. unpredictable um because it depends how many claims go into that and what they can pay out. Um for a long time they were paying about 70 cents on a dollar. Um in recent years that dropped. It moved a little back again but it doesn't give you great predictability and confidence in budgeting. Um and in 2025 they added 40 million for excess cost. It it changed the reimbursements from where they were which
033was landing at about 50 to 60 cents and it moved those back up to about 70 cents on the dollar. Right? So that additional funding actually just stabilized the underfunding if that makes sense. Um and they created what they call a seed grant and it it is um special education and expansion development grant and in in kind of the design of this um and actually I'm going to spring you to slide 33 and I I don't mean to mess you up Danielle. I'm sorry. And then we'll we'll spring back. Um, but what what it did in theory is said, "Okay, ideally what we'd like to do is fund special ed at like if it sat in the if it sat in the ECS formula, we'd want to do a 50% weight, which is great. It
034doesn't have to sit in that formula to be a 50% weight, right? We can design it and we can articulate it with legislation. In order to do a 50% weight for school districts, it would cost about 190 million, we funded it with 30 million. Um, which doesn't cut it. I don't I I actually, you know, it doesn't cut it. And in the seed grant, and I want to I want to acknowledge this because I think it has a a much greater impact on the quiet corner. I've been talking I've been talking to Woodstock. I've been talking to staffer. I've been spending way time up here like talking um small districts are feeling the constraints of the seed grant and I really want to speak to that um in just that it isn't like an extra
035just bucket of money. There are restrictions with how you can spend it or how you cannot spend it. And for small districts um those constraints are felt more significantly. For instance, there are constraints on on using that money for um I I want to say contracted services is the best way to say it. You might have needs that are not a full-time employee position. Contracted services meet the needs of students. Um, but that is up for debate with the seed grant and and generally what I've seen is small districts having a struggle using the money for that. >> Yes. So, we are having a problem of getting a teacher. So, we've gone to contracted services to hire a teacher. >> So, that gives us a obviously um an unapproved use of those dollars. >> Yep.
036So you are also experiencing that and and so I I just I want to acknowledge that and then we can flip back to let let's just talk about slide 31 for a second where they say it's in ECS and prior to 1995 there was a a separate line item in the state budget for special education In 1995, the legislature said, "Let's not let's not do that. Let's merge it. Let's pour it into ECS." So, they assume at this point that about 23% of ECS funding is attributed to special education expenditures. But that doesn't help you because there's not an additional like bonus 23% line item in there. Um, so that's a problem and that's that's a huge problem. Um, and then you you can see on slide 32 the shortfall of excess cost and fiscal
03725 specifically. Um, and we're monitoring it because again I think it's there's going to be a shortfall. It's not it it hasn't been legislatively full funded. Um but again the amount of shortfall is based on the totality of claims across the state. And so you know claims don't come in in September. Claims are coming in now. You all are hitting four and a half times and being able to start um seeing that. Um, so you know, we have our standard what people can do. I I want to just and there there's some details in here on like the growth of uh the across the state growth of special education um students and and a lot of that is attributable to getting more knowledgeable about identification. Um costs are skyrocketing. absolutely skyrocketing and and that is
038a challenge and it it I think one of the things I I just want to identify too is that special education is the area that you don't control um and you cannot you cannot tell a student too bad that's too expensive find a different accommodation you can't say sorry we're maxed out on special ed try again next year, right? You don't have that. And you also don't have the flexibility of of knowing, right? Um it's not a one for one. When kids graduate, new kids coming in aren't aren't that same group, right? And they have different needs and costs continuously fluctuate. And and so I think it's a it's it's part of the thing that is most challenging for I think boards of ed and and for folks to understand that's where you're seeing the
039biggest like cost drivers generally speaking and at the same time it's where you don't control fluctuation and I want to acknowledge that. So um overall I think there are a couple of key things that um we're working on. um two key things, but um the one that will affect you the the one that will affect you significantly is we're working on an inflation adjuster um for the foundation amount. So that that foundation amount will finally have um an inflation increase annually because your budgets increase annually and when the foundation amount and everything that falls from that um doesn't get considered um you guys I mean you got to be seeing it just in your health like health care and benefits special lead, right? And then your utilities and these things that are are like not
040being increased anywhere and where it sits currently is going to be in the community. Um there's there's no other pathway. And so um that inflation adjuster in in law would be important because it would be there much like the foundation amount and that we don't have to go back year after year. it would be there. And I think that's the most important thing. It's the most um it it's the most valuable across the state for every community. It matters. It matters for kids. So, um you know, we have a mailing list. You're welcome to sign up. I think on slide I'll identify it for you. On slide three, there's a QR code and it's also on our our website. This is an app and it tells you what our per pupil spending is, what other
041communities per pupil spending is, what demographics are, what outcomes are, right? Um, and it's in your hand. And you can do that at the district level and you can also do that at the school level. So if if it's information, my contact information is in there. you are more than welcome to reach out to me. We have a data team that is um brilliant and I encourage questions. I encourage a stump the data team kind of of effort and um support that. That's what we do. And um we're happy to do that. And if it's advocacy um you can sign up for our mailing list or let me know, shoot me an email and say I'd like to like be on the email list so that I can be informed. um and we'll keep you
042informed of leg legislative advocacy opportunities. I will also say this um discussion is the absolute most important thing, right? People don't want to like hang out and talk about school finance. Like we tell everybody, we're like best thing you can do is start talking about education funding, but it is. And and everybody doesn't have to agree on the right solution, the right answer. I think we agree that there's a there's a challenge and you're feeling it. Um, and so if there is something that you question as far as proposals, you're wondering what it would look like for you, um, let me know. We are doing, we aren't done yet, but we're doing the town runs for the proposal of the inflation adjuster. So, what would that mean to you? Ballpark. Um, we're doing that. So,
043we have that information. This is what we do and we're happy to help. >> Thank you. >> Can I have one little question? So, could you explain the whole harmless u because we've been in that that that place for quite a while. Okay. This is a two-part question, right? With the alliance district, you are in alliance district and you're like, is that a good thing? Is that a bad thing? And generally people see that as a bad thing. You became an alliance district, but there are some arbitrary measures that you need to understand with the alliance districts. One, it excludes districts under a thousand kids and and that's a lot of districts, right? So, so there's an arbitrary measure there and it it was lowest and it still is the lowest performing districts, but that's
044all relative, right? as as districts move. Um it wasn't like there was a threshold that you fell below and that is why you were there. It's just relative and it it always has been. the alliance district program has been expanded and people have been grandfathered in because the one thing um that I think is is important with the alliance district is that if your numbers change, if your demographics drop, if if your numbers change, you don't get a reduction. You're you're buffered from a reduction. So that means in statute we have what are um you know we we have and you saw the formula you would do the math and go oh they lost kids they have less kids who qualify for free and reduced price launch they did a reval and their base aid
045ratio has changed and we don't need to give them as much but you are protected from those decrease changes because you are in an alliance district. Important to note, an alliance district does not give you more funding. It doesn't. And so what happens is with an alliance district, your your ECS grant, if you were not an alliance district, your ECS grant would go straight to the municipality and then it would come to you. We have fiscally dependent boards of education. Not uncommon. Um, I think roughly a third, maybe a little more of the states have fiscally dependent boards of education. It means you can't levy taxes, you can't bond, and and kind of the town serves as a pass through for you, right? um with an alliance district what they say although they've changed the
046year and I'm I'm not quite positive on the year until like last year or two years ago they said listen any ECS increase you would get over funding of comes to the district as an alliance grant and they've moved up that 2012 so it it is a little bit more current um but it comes to the district as an alliance grant. So the base ECS that you always got goes to the municipality then comes to you. The increases in ECS come to the district directly in the form of an alliance grant. And what that means is you have to jump through hoops before you get that money. You have to submit a plan of how you're going to how you're going to change things, how you're going to use the money. Um, and until the
047state department of education gives you the thumbs up on that plan, you don't get that money. But it's not additional money. Other districts who aren't alliance districts just would have seen that as a straight up ECS increase. So I want to make that clear because I think there is a misperception that when you're an alliance district you get additional money and that that doesn't happen but you don't lose which is important too >> did you get a clarity of that >> I have a question >> please >> I don't I didn't hear address hold harmless as a >> so the hold harmless is that we don't get our ECS reduced from year to year, >> you don't lose your money. >> Other towns do. So, there's some volatility. Um, and for small districts, and that
048that was kind of the like thing, right? You are a small district and you're going to experience a lot of volatility, but being in alliance district means you don't lose, which is which is a really stable place to be. >> I have two unrelated questions. Okay. >> You may or may not have the answers to either of them. >> A what what other funding mechanisms do other states do that we don't do? Obviously, you said we're very uh property tax dependent. What What do successful states do? >> So, we're one of two states without a county form of government, >> right? >> And and counties are are leveraged, right? and and um that mechanism of having counties aids in the funding um of school districts. Um it's us in Rhode Island. Okay. >> And you
049know, I mean, you guys feel that differently because you're right there, but um yeah. So, so you know when you look at um economy of scale and you look at at fund distribution a little differently um the county form of government is is pretty key in in leveraging that. Um I think the other thing and it's kind of along the same same line is um we have some really small school districts. you guys are small. Um, and we have significantly smaller school districts. We have school districts with less than 100 kids. Um, it costs a lot the smaller you are. >> Yeah. >> It just it it does, right? So, um I think that, you know, I'll be I'll be bold standing up here and saying that I understand that and actually being a being
050a resident of Eastern Connecticut my entire life. Um it's something that this area of the state looks at and and and thinks about and actually executes in in different ways. Um, and and in some states, I mean, in some areas of our state, it is something that is is just like people can't talk about, but looking at how you can collectively work together, dare I say regionalize, um, is important. And I'm not suggesting that a regional school district is necessarily the answer. We have a lot of work to do on our regional school district laws in Connecticut and how that works. But thinking about how to gain economy of scale, it is a huge piece of it. >> So can I ask a question related to that? >> Of course. So my colleague um uh
051that we've been talking and my colleague in Putnham uh Steve Rio did an analysis and he talked about uh the incentive around regionalization and then he took a look at then we might lose the holdarmless and if you calculated that out it actually works against us. Oh, I've I will I'll share with you anecdotally. Um I am I my son is a part of new region 20 a newly regionalized district. It actually was a regional district and then it like regionalized some extra and and in that um there were some significant challenges and I think that yeah there there are challenges for you particularly right in the hold harmless. I think that we have work to do as a state around incentivizing regionalization because there is a tipping point where it does matter >> and
052he did that work, right? There are tipping points where where there are ways to incentivize but the the other thing right now is that um and you all see this with Parish Hill and and and the challenges in in this side of the state of like it's not working right. Scotland wanted out of that region and and was unable to get out because the regional school district laws don't really they aren't flexible. Once you're in, you're in. Um, and we've got to change that, too. Um, because I think I think, you know, there are things that work well. Proportionality of of paying is is equitable. It's it's built in there. But yeah, there's still a lot of work to do. I'm um I think I'm hopeful that that becomes one of the next policy issues.
053I also will say um one of the policy issues and there are a couple of just if you can't tell, we're nerds. I'm not an I am a nerd. I'm standing in front of you saying all these math things. Um math was not my favorite subject. I think I'm allergic to math. Um, but there are things that we need as a state as far as like data collection policies. Um, Connecticut has one of the largest growing 504 populations which also fit in under special education but are not reported in the data. So you don't see the number of 504 students that you have nor do you see associated costs with 504s. And it is also one of those areas that you all don't have flexibility with and yet it's it's almost invisible in your budget.
054Um and so we have we have work to do on just getting the data in order to get the funding correct. Right? Just um for some of these things we don't have enough information. Multilingual learners, same challenge. we don't have enough data um to get to get the appropriate funding amount. And if you look at Windham, Danberry, a couple of other they're at more than one in every three kids being multilingual learners. Um districts have 70 or 80 different languages being spoken in a district. Like there there are significant challenges and there are significant beautiful things that are happening here. Um so I hopefully I answered all the I threw in the extra 504. That was like a >> a bonus. >> Any other questions for Erica? Matt, >> is there Well, is it a
055lack of money or lack of will to fund the education on a state level? I mean, seems like Connecticut with all its billionaires and trillionaires and should have some more money than we do. Um, obviously there's there's plenty of poor people in Connecticut, in the cities, and in the rural areas, but there's also, you know, there's there's some money floating around. Is it a lack of will, just like on the federal level, or is it a lack of money? >> All right, Matt, I see you. So, there are a couple of things, right? I think Connecticut has always lived um with the with the fear that if you change the tax structure in Connecticut, speaking of of like the pockets of wealth that we have that um folks will leave the state and Massachusetts just
056did a massive tax change um and is is taxing um wealthy folks at a a much changed rate and people are not leaving. Um, but we've all heard that, right? And so I think there is that embedded fear. Um, on a state level too, we have a wild ride of a state in just the different communities. Our our legislature um is suburban in nature and probably uh on the higher wealth end, right? So when you look at funding funding policies um it's a it's a challenge to like we look in so for this inflation adjuster right a rising tide floats all boats and that's where funding policy has been most successful um until this year I would have told you and I think our delegation in particular was working to to change funding at the
057federal level particularly related to special education. Um that is is not a thing right now. Um and I think you know in in the state one of the things we are looking at and the commissioner is required to do is to set a rate schedule for um special ed service private providers, right? outplacement tuition like um and bounding some of those things so you all are less subject to um changes so there's a cost control side but there is an investment side and um I think it's I think it's a challenge how' I do >> fine you did fine and yeah and and obviously you don't have you answered my question >> otherwise I would have fixed it you know And so I don't I don't have the answers and I don't have the pulse
058of the state legislature, but it would seem that and I don't know how much it would cost. Obviously, they're unwilling to fund what we have already, right? We they're unwilling to fund what we have in place, but to have if it's a state mandate to have the state fund it. So state mandate to have special ed funded in a certain way. Well, that special ed paid for, every kid has got to have their least cost, least restrictive environment and all that. The money should follow the student because as you know, we have one one if one student moves in that cost us $200,000 a year out of the blue, that's just a $200,000 hit to our budget. >> Yeah. >> And we know that, you know, and and the money should follow the kid. >>
059And there are solutions, right? because um and we proposed a solution a few years ago that was wildly unpopular at the time I think because the landscape was different which is you know what is happening in Connecticut with special ed is not that kids are moving into the state right they're moving from district to district >> and and it's predictable it it is predictable on the state level it's predictable you're experiencing volatility because we are hyper local and that that creates a significant volatility problem. You can and I will generalize this and and probably do a a a slight disservice to our policy initiative which is like you can kind of insurance model this which is you know we know what the historical spend is in every town. we know what the the state needs
060to contribute and you can look at okay if a kid moves that cost can then shift with the kid right and you can look at at what's that cost in a district over over a three or five year period and you can actually when you do that and because we know that kids aren't aren't coming in we're not getting flooded we're just moving around um you can make that really predictable and stable for districts I think there is that that fear of like well what if what if it's not what if our district pays more and you can model it out and it it actually models out really well and very stable um but I think that one when we were proposing it 2018ish um there wasn't the the need people were like h it's
061a problem but like we got this and we'd rather handle it on our own and now it's a bigger bigger problem. I think there have to be out of box solutions and I think like to kind of the earlier point, people need to start thinking about how to work together differently. I I will say in this area of the state, um you've got like dynamic connections and the superintendent are connected in a way that doesn't happen often. Really looking at how to stabilize your districts. It's it's really it's really cool to see and um all all compliments there. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, thanks for the hard questions. I meant for the data team, not for me. >> Yeah, but you're here and they're not. >> Justin, >> I have one. >> Yes. >> Great
062presentation. Um and this probably goes to your data team. We last I'm going to give you some data first and then I'm going to ask you the question. Last year we were 16th out of 169 districts in special education. This year we are 40th out of 169 districts in special. >> 16th and 40th in what? In special ed percentage of students. >> Highest. Yes. >> Yeah. Correct. >> Okay. >> That percentage has not changed for us. It's 26. It's roughly floated between 25 and 26%. are you guys doing? Now what I see from that is I see a higher need and towards your presentation they haven't changed the funding pool that that need's coming from. So that overall percentage of reimbursement is going to be lower. Are you guys doing any pred predictive analysis and
063putting that data out to say things like I just said like we're looking at I'm looking at it going yeah >> well this year we might get 62 64% on the dollar next year it could be 34% on the dollar if they funded at the same model are you guys doing and this is one small pocket are you guys doing any predictive modeling to help districts look at things like that >> we are also working with the legislature to look at that because because the the reality reality is they can they can change that, right? And so those conversations even though legislative session is a this year is very short, right? February to May um those conversations are ongoing in prioritization um and concern identification. So, um, as we get access to data, um, and
064we don't always get access to data any sooner than Edsite releases it, like until it's on Edsite. Um, but when we can identify data needs and get access to that sooner, we do that. And when we look at what we're seeing and say, "This is what this is what this is going to mean. Here's the red flag." Um, we're watching access cost. Um, we've already started flagging it. So, yes to all of it. >> Okay. And have you guys considered a self-reporting system to get that data sooner? >> Um, >> like districts that want to participate in self-reporting? >> No, but that would be interesting. So, where we've hit a lot of So, >> I just got the daggeriz on that one. >> No, no, I'll tell you where the obstacles are because I I
065do think there there are districts who are like that would be good. The obstacles are right. Um, everyone from your business officers to your, you know, to two special ed directors to like are so over overt taxed that anything more is just like they they are when we talk about what what else could we do? Um, there's there's functionally no capacity, >> right? Bill. >> No, and I'm not and I'm not saying are you are you >> Thank you, Erica. I think you're the first person who's ever said that. >> What do you know? >> Oh, yeah. Because I'll tell you, and this is where he he could look at me cuz cuz in 2012, there was a law that went into effect in Connecticut that said by 2015, we have to have a uniform
066chart of accounts. And yeah, you hear the groan because I'm a big fan of uniform chart of accounts because what that means is we can look across districts in a very clear way, apples to apples, right? And and it is not 2015. We are way past that and it has not happened and it has not happened for those types of concerns that I've articulated. not identifying anyone in particular and and understanding that um the reporting like the reporting and recording and I identified two areas like finance and special ed have just been um increased and increased and increased and and you know what your budget is. So, it's not like you're like, "Oh, we have another mandate. Let's add another person. Great." That's not what happens. And that's what I think is identified as unfunded
067mandates, right? >> And and I live through unified charter accounts in Rhode Island. And that was heavy lift to make that all work. And the amount of time that was pressure on the finance director and everybody else was >> and then all you do is you just it to me it just looked like a big spreadsheet that you could compare districts. >> We would love that >> but in the end it didn't give us anything. >> You're talking magic. And I think I think in fairness though, right, um Connecticut's data displays and transparency are are not necessarily the strongest. And to that point, right, um if you don't have a method of robust like what are the strategies, you know, and we do have like we have some dashboards. We have an educator preparation dashboard
068that tells us where like people coming into the pipeline. We can see shortages years in advance, but we aren't able to tangibly strategize what do we do with that, right? And so to your point, if you don't have those connective strategies to build it, then we don't want you to do a lift. That is just a feel-good for for me. I mean, I still want you to do it. >> Respect. I have a question about so we talk about excess cost grants and everything a lot for you know like the stuff that happens over or out placement is there any talk at all for legislature anything about all the costs that are in house that don't meet the threshold because I think that most of our funding actually needs to be like in because most
069we have what 200 kids on IEPs in district four kids out of placement so 196 kids are getting speech and OT and reading and all these interventions that are not being funded at all. >> Yeah. >> They would say that that is the seed grant that that's it's $60,000. >> Correct. Right. Um and and >> I'm not saying that because I I agree with you. I think, you know, that that there is still not a strong and um you know, last year we had the select committee on special education in the legislature and that looked at it and it came out with a comprehensive kind of start. Um there's a lot of work to do and there there is a lot of collaboration that needs to happen between any select committee um like special education
070and the education committee um because it it all is a piece of it and I think um there I think that there is not a strong although I will tell you there there are going to be advocacy efforts to increase that seed grant. Um I don't know what the yield is um on that. I don't know. I don't think the appetite is there um immediately and and I I actually think that in the long run the feedback on the seed grant is actually going to be critical to it being effective. um not just because if you put more money in it but you aren't able to use it in a way that actually meets the needs of the district. Um we need to have both parts of those conversations. Uh my guess is just in
071in kind of the ways of the world, they're going to want to see how that plays out for at least a year before they poke on anything. I think they're going to wait for a lot. Um, and I do hear you on that because because I think I think when we talk about this and we've all talked about a lot tonight, the answer is not one thing. The answer is a lot of things. You know, last year we also passed a district repair and improvement program. And that that isn't going to get you a lot of money either, but it's another avenue towards funding. And I think we need to think comprehensively about what are the costs of districts and how do we look at incentivization programs for for change? How do we really talk
072about what districts need in in a grant that meets their needs for special education? Um, and I think it's a lot of levers. Um, I think it's a hard one right now. I just think um there's we have a lot of knowledge building to do about what special education is or is not and what what you all are required to do, what FAPE is, right? And um I think that that is both in communities and I think it is at the legislature. I think holistically as a state we need to have that conversation in order to get the momentum to make strategic investments. >> Sorry, it's not your fault. It's just something to think about beyond, you know, because >> But you're right. >> Yeah. >> Okay, Matt, >> I have one more thing. It's
073not It's not a question. It's not a question. I want to thank you. Thank you very much for coming out here all the way from Lichfield. Also, I want to thank our three uh board of finance members who are attending here or virtually. I appreciate that. And uh you know, and I wanted to thank them just in case they left after uh Erica's presentation. So, and thank you very again for coming out and you got to go all the way back now, too. So, >> I listen to a book and nobody is actually talking to me. I'm just going to share. But um we've already made a pitch for like an apartment somewhere in the quiet corner. If we keep having to like come out here, I'm like, wait, it would just be easier. And
074I'm also down for that. So, I'll keep coming back. And again, please feel free to reach out um with any questions and and I'm happy to answer. Thank you so much for having me. >> Thanks, >> Kathleen. Any questions, comments? I'm sorry. The way the screen is, it's to my back and I miss you. >> That's okay. I know. I've always advocated for the screen to be over by where the tech guy sits because it's difficult for the chair. But uh no, I do not. It was an excellent presentation. I think it helped us understand uh a lot more on how the mech financing mechanism of the state works. And we've got a lot of um uh we need to uh advocate. We got a lot of advocacy to do to the state and to
075our state legislators. But thank you for arranging this. >> Thank you so very much. >> Thank you very much. On to part B, budget overview. Mr. Douglas, I'm going to turn it over to you. >> All right. >> Thank you. Um, a lot of this um will be repetition uh from last week. Uh, but I did want to specifically address a couple of items that came out of last week's meeting. Uh, Kathleen had requested um to see the uh total object view. So, the last two pages of the of the um packet that you have in front of you are just that uh the object view. Uh so the the prior to that in the package is is a duplicate of what you had last week. >> And the other question uh we had last
076week I believe it came from Heather was to add >> the number of positions per um per code. I actually layered that into >> uh both the um >> both looks the object view on the last two pages and and the previous view before. >> Thank you. >> Um so you can see uh you'll see there's a couple of half positions floating around. Um I I wanted to accurately capture how how each position was um you know uh fit into the budget and that's why you see some half positions. But uh there um you know there's a couple notable things in there. 39 paras um was one thing that jumped out at me when you looked at the object when you look at the object view. um you know that that I think is reflective
077of of just the the level of service. >> I I think it is. Yes. >> Yep. Yep. >> Um Melinda and I took a look at these and and this is the these positions are built um from the same payroll and benefits um supporting information that's in the in the budget spreadsheet. Um so hopefully that sheds some light. Um what struck me was um frankly in some situations you know obviously uh if you think about the high school for example obviously not a massive school but you know when you start talking about you know having three math teachers and three science teachers and and three English teachers and three social studies teachers it's really amazing that they service 160s something kids you know all the math classes needed for 160 something kids with three teachers
078in math. That's what >> So when I first came, we had five ELA, five math, and four other content areas. >> But but that information has been added. Um so if that prompts any questions, uh just let me know. Uh but to recap at at a high level, um going back to the the cover page here, um currently we're at a a a proposed budget of 23.7 million, which is up 1.9 or u 1.9 million or just under 9%. Um, as usual, um, and and no surprise here, uh, the bulk of that increase comes from, um, pupil services in response to the special education needs that, you know, Erica just just mentioned are across the state. That's not a surprise to anybody else. Um, all three schools, um, the primary drivers are contractual salaries and
079what is now a 10% health insurance increase. Uh we have not heard any any movement on that number yet from our brokers, but we continue to check in. You remember that last year thankfully drifted down from 10%. Um but so far it hasn't moved yet, but we're it's it's not for lack of trying. Uh other budgets uh pretty tight. Um districtwide uh you see a 14% increase there of 277,000. A lot of that is the cafeteria health insurance coming back to the board of ed uh that we've talked about in in previous budgets where there was an attempt when in the last couple of years when we had a lot of funding floating around they were able to carry um their their health insurance but uh doing that now would just push the cafeteria and
080deficit which is a game we don't want to play because that deficit ultimately comes back to the board. So I think it should be addressed um right up front. Um those are really uh let me see contract uh transportation. Um that's you're at a 4.3% increase. Wait a minute, Bill, they're up 5%. We have a little bit of an offset uh because of bus route reductions and we actually were able to buy down uh our per gallon price of fuel again um for 2027. Uh sound like a broken record on this one, but it's one of the few wins that we see on in the budgets. Um I think this is the fourth year in a row we've been able to do that. Um it's a modest savings but it it helps a little bit.
081Um so very high level. Um those are the big drivers of the budget. Um there's a couple things that I would I would like to mention sort of ahead of um the next agenda item. Uh and that's that I I'd like to remind the board that that this isn't a this isn't a final budget. this is very much a living document and and is in flux due to a few things and just a couple of examples um and Melinda tell you you know time out if I go too far on this one but we've very very very recently had some uh some some development in the in the pupil services world that very that might well affect next year >> and by very recently I mean >> this morning this morning Okay. >> So, that's
082something that we would need to need to be able to react to. Uh, another bit of of bad news, uh, the the pension contribution line in the budget, um, is one of these items that we get typically during the budget process. Uh, that actually came in this morning. Uh, I had budgeted that at $100,000. Uh, it's been between 95 and $100,000 for the last few years. The actuaries actually filed their report this morning and that's $121,000. So there's another 20 thou $21,000 that that needs to be addressed. Um and and hopefully what will end up being a good guy. Um we don't have as I just mentioned we don't have a final percentage increase on health insurance. I really hope we see that drift down. Uh and that is that's a situation where be we
083would be able to reduce the budget. Um, so I think it would it would be helpful to be able to uh react to some of those things uh in in both directions because at the end of it all we want the budget to be accurate. Um, and I just wanted that out for consideration when you move on to the discussion later on in the meeting. >> Yeah. And can I just jump on that for a minute? Um when we put this budget together, we put it together with the actual expenses that we have and to maintain what we have. We didn't ask for anything new. Um it is just the very fixed costs that are going up. Um and then that volatility with special education. So there are no new programs coming. There are no
084additional teachers being added. Um, it is a straightforward budget just to keep things status quo. >> Kathleen. >> Yes. Um, I'd like to make a comment um about the special education um overage for this year's bud for the fiscal year. Um, when we were when our budget request was cut last year, we went back to Dr. Jones and had him cut what we had originally budgeted for special education in our 2526 year budget by 400,000. >> And guess what? were coming in o almost to that exact amount over in our in our budget. So, you know, we prepare a budget to what we feel what we honestly believe what we're coming in on. Our general education budget is spoton and where it's volatile and where we believed we could cut the budget. We were really
085in our first budget pass spot on in our special education needs. >> That's all. >> Thank you, Kathleen. Okay. So, Yes, Justin. >> Um, Bill, I've been doing some shuffling. If you saw, this is nothing compared to my desk at home. Um, I pulled the last two years of all of our worksheets and and things that we've done. Um, if I look back at last year when we started this process, this time last year, we were 22 398 630. That's where we were last year at this time with our budget. um if we didn't subtract any of the contractual salaries, we didn't do any of that mess to that and we got the adders that were at the end of last budget season, that brings us to right around 227 228 somewhere in that range
086by by my numbers. Right? you look at our contractual salary obligations for this year roughly I think that's around 450K um bringing us up to about 23 million1 um and then our special ed ads so far this budget season uh we are realistically only asking for about $265,000 over last year's original request budget less all the special ed stuff. I I know that was a difficult track to follow, but by my numbers and by the shuffling and if you saw, like I said, if you saw my office, it's a $265,000 net net plus over last year. I think at least where I'm from, where I sit, we have kicked this can down the road, we've bled this stone as much as we're going to bleed it, and we have put off I mean, we've got
087we've got this I've got last year's capital list somewhere in here. We've got stuff that 10 things on a list that we move from year to year to year to year to year to year and eventually things catch up to us like the HVAC caught up to us, right? Like the roof catches up to us. And I specifically remember a meeting for the HVAC where the town and the board of education was chastised for about 30 minutes straight as to why we didn't plan for this, why we didn't save for it, why didn't we protect the investment of the taxpayers of Thompson. This is why, right? Why? because we have to provide per article 8 of the Connecticut Constitution a free and fair education. The town has to provide it to the residents of the
088town and we're we're doing it on a shoestring budget. Now, one of the other things that's come out, and Jess, correct me if I'm going ahead of myself here, but there's this list that came out today, >> and I personally have an appetite for absolutely nothing on this list to go away. Everything on this list is what our district has done to improve our district. And there are things on this list that towns people have stomped their feet at board of finance meetings. They've stomped their feet at town meetings. They've stomped their feet at board of selectman meetings. Our school needs we need to close the high school and turn it into a vocational school. Well, what we've done in our high school is we've got the best of both worlds. We are putting together
089pathways which I don't want to minimalize them by saying they're vocations, but they are allowing a specific population of our student body to get out and become contributing members of >> taxpaying contributing members of society before they even leave high school. >> Yep. with what's on this list, we will handicap at the knees our district. >> And whether you're fiscally conservative, whatever you want to call yourself, this list will put our district behind by leaps and bounds. Forget test scores, >> right? >> Yeah. Those will go out the window. >> The athletics. Athletics. To be in an athletic program, you have to keep your grades up. Mhm. >> What's the incentive for students to keep their grades up if there's no athletics? >> What's the incentive for kids to even come to school if there's
090not something interesting, especially in high school, for them to come to school for? If we didn't push last year's budget and it didn't get cut drastically, we would be asking for my numbers about a two.3 mill rate increase this year at the most. So that can being kicked. >> It's over. >> And and don't forget that we cut seven or eight positions last year to make that number work. >> I was I was getting there. It was I'm glad Jess saw it. Um I mean there was five positions last year that were eliminated. There was thou hundreds of thousands of dollars that were cut from plant before we even touched it in this round. um whether it was the benefits from the eliminated positions and then you know when we talk about nickel and dimming
091I mean we cut out $138,000 57 $138,579 in other decreases right to say we don't go through this budget line by line and find every nickel and dime we do a and for for us to sit here again and and have to find $5,000 here and $10,000 there and oh, we're going to cut a $15,000 math lab program for what? So that we can get chastised next year because our test scores didn't move in the positive direction. We're not doing what we need. Our job as a board of education is to educate the students. Our job is to be fiscally responsible with the budget. I believe anything lower than we're currently proposing is not fiscally responsible. In fact, based on the revelations since this budget was originally approved by the board of education, I believe
092we're almost $400,000 in addition to that number that went out. And I get it. There's not an appetite in the town to have a higher mill rate. But we have a job to be fiscally responsible and we have a job to educate these students. And if we even touch anything on this list, we're risking everything we've built for the last seven years. >> I yield. >> Okay. Anybody else for discussion? >> Justin pretty much said everything. >> All of it. >> I heard a lot of dittos. Justinda, I just want to say that this was an exercise I was asked to do. Um I don't agree with any of it. Um as a matter of fact, um I told you last budget goaround. I'm supposed to be helping you guide you through this process and
093I have nothing left to give or cut or reduce. I mean, when you hear Heather next week, she'll talk about how we got throw away computers that we're breaking down to make other computers because we don't have enough money to replace computer. I mean, it's it it it is sad. I She's pretty creative, but at the end of the day, I mean, think about that. Um, you know, we we we took somebody some other district's trash and tried to make something out of it to work for our kids so that they have a computer to use in school. It's it it's it's beyond comprehension at this point on how we're going to move forward unless we keep up with the fixed costs every year. >> Uh, Kathleen. >> Yeah. Can I ask a question? I
094just want to go through this uh staffing list here. Not that I'm in agreement I'm in agreement with you, Melinda, but just to be clear, how many um children are presently in the preschool classes? >> Uh we have the enrollment sheet. There's probably about 4950 total. >> Yeah. But how many in each class? >> How many in each class? There's 12 in the full day program. I know all the seats are filled. And then A.M. and PM. Um I don't have that list right in front of me. I can get it for you. >> 44. There's 44 total. And you have to understand about preschool, right? It is early intervention. And so when the kids turn three, they come in through the special ed door. Um, and so we have to keep spots open because
095we know, uh, we have projections of when those kids are going to enroll. Um, so sometimes a class isn't completely at capacity, but um, uh, we have the peers that that that come in and they're either tuition based um, or they qualify for a free slot depending on if they're school readiness or not. But there's 44 students currently. It doesn't mean that number isn't going to go up. >> Right. Understood. I understand that. So, currently we have about we have four classrooms or >> we have we have three classrooms. One is a full day classroom. So, those 12 students stay all day and then we have two other classrooms that have two morning sessions and two afternoon sessions. >> Okay. So if you you would get rid of you're if we were to say okay
096we're going to reduce a preschool teacher it would be one of the am pm teachers >> correct >> okay >> and then that would reduce the number of spots for uh peers to come into the program because then those slots in the other classes would have to be reserved for students of need because by federal law once they turn three they have to receive services >> right and those >> I don't agree with it but I'm thinking Kathleen I've got to think about what isn't mandatory and providing preschool for gened kids is not mandatory >> correct because those kids hopefully um would be able to go to one of the private preschools in the area >> if their families amilies could afford it. >> Afford it. Right. And given the poverty rate in this town,
097that may not be feasible. >> Correct. >> And quite honestly, sometimes we take students in, they don't qualify for special ed, but we know that they need early intervening services. So, we bring them into our preschool. So, longterm we can correct um and and provide that early intervention. so that long term they don't become students that need um additional support. >> Okay. And along with that the the preschool parah would then go also because she he would not be needed. >> Yeah. The classroom wouldn't be there. >> Right. Okay. So that would be 170 some odd thousand 170,000 that we could save in the budget. >> Not ideal for the community. No, no, I'm not saying it is. Please, please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it is ideal. I'm just trying to wrap
098this around my head. >> I get it. >> Okay. The guidance secretary up at the high school, how many do we have now? Two. >> One. So, that the guidance counselors would have no secretary. >> Correct. But we have one secretary of the main office, but I don't believe she could take on the work of the guidance secretary. So then the work of the guidance secretary would fall on the guidance counselor and when you think about kids transcripts and everything that's involved with that. Um >> but it's not a classroom teacher that we desperately need. So I started to look at what isn't in the classroom. >> Correct. I hear you. I hear you. >> Anything else, Kathleen? >> Uh no, I think I'm done. Thank you, >> Daniela. >> My question goes back to
099preschool. Uh we receive some funding from parents, right? What how does >> Yeah. So we see receive tuition on a sliding scale for the students that don't qualify for special ed. If they qualify for school readiness, some of them can take those slots. Um but um remember we increased the um one class to full day. Um and if you look at the literacy data that's coming out of our school, uh the students that were in full day preschool last year far exceed the kindergarten students that came in without that full day experience from our school. There's one other uh center that I won't make a name of um that off also offers school day preschool and those students who had that experience now are far ahead in kindergarten than every other student that just came
100in. So the preschool program um is having a significant positive impact on and it's the full day program that's really having the impact on student achievement as they get into kindergarten. and Lindsay could come here and show you that data all day long because she's quite jazzed about it. >> So, does that money is the money that we're getting from the students in the full day program or the half days? >> Um, mostly the half days unless they they have a school readiness slot. Here's the thing about the preschool tuition. We have more children that are on a sliding scale, right? So, the tuition generated over time has been less than when I first came. However, we only receive a certain percentage of that tuition money back. The rest goes to the town. So, I
101don't know how much goes on the town side, but um I know that number is reduced every year. >> Yeah, it's it's probably around 15 to 18,000 that goes to the town. >> And what are we getting? Well, why does it go to town? >> That's a great question. trying to get an answer. >> That makes no sense to me. If it if the services are being given at the school, then the money should be going back to the school. >> So, this kind of goes on the heels where back in the day, excess cost also went to the town and we had to do some work if everybody remembers. Yes, we did. And and get that money back. Um I think that's the way it was originally set up. This is long before Bill
102and I arrived. Um and it's just been kept that way. >> Okay. Justin, you had your hand up. >> It's still at one point. >> Yeah. I mean, did you have something, Matt? You You guys can go first. I'll be >> and then Okay, you'll clean up. >> So, to follow up on Melinda, um, so whatever we're spending on full day preschool is going to pay us back threefold, fivefold in general education through elementary school because they're going to be >> that far ahead. and and and it's everything is essentially ex exponential >> what you what you're building on. >> So we're we're saving money by spending a we're spending pennies to save dollars. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> They'll need to wait till citizens comments. Unfortunately, >> isn't part of that teacher salary
103also covered under the school readiness? >> Yes. A little bit of salary like a full elimination. We get about 100,000 from school readiness, right, Bill? >> About that. >> Okay. You ready to back clean up? >> I'll clean up. >> So, um I the preschool piece. >> Mhm. >> The preschool piece bothers probably bothers me the most out of this because of what it does, right? It's the feeder to the rest of the program. I also fear that if we do remove that the the preschool teacher and the and the parent educator lowering the overall enrollment by let's call it let's roughly say 11. Let's just say it's 11. Um, I think we're going to pay for that in kindergarten the next year by having to do two paras, three paras to support the additional
104needs of what wasn't provided for if those students do decide to feed in at that point >> because preschool's a lot of social adjustment. >> Correct. >> It's it's that first experience with >> it's the first experience without the parents. And from my community outreach, it's probably one of the programs that is the highest rated elementary school program that we like. You don't usually hear any complaints about the prek program that we have here. Um my fear about getting rid of the secretaries and if we go back to probably midy year last year's meetings when we were having a whole bunch of power school issues and attendance issues and I didn't get a phone call until 11:00 in the morning that my kid was marked absent. Why didn't I get that? Well, >> here we
105go. Right. If we start cutting secretaries, we start risking some safety. we start risking there's there's risk involved with each one of these lines. Um, I think guidance secretary, there's risk involved in being able to help our students prepare their transcripts, like you said, for college applications, being able to help our students with college applications. And, God forbid we get rid of some of these other programs, the guidance counselor is going to be needed even more because there'll be less resources to help those students that don't have a path postgraduation. And the whole point is to graduate successful students that can go off into the world. And if we're kind of just kicking them out the door without a >> guidance, you know, what's the point? >> The other function they serve, right, is managing
106all the scholarships and making sure that kids get that information. You know, displaying that stuff so students can apply. Um making sure kids have uh access to to Kim Steglets when they when they need to. So, um, there's a lot of value there and I can say that the elementary office would be chaos if we didn't have two people there. And you are right, it is a safety issue. But when I start to look at, we had these some of these positions on list, um, the one thing I didn't put on the list this year that you had last year was a school nurse. And I'll tell you why I'm not putting that on. because we had an emergency this year with a staff member and she would not be with us if it wasn't
107for our nursing staff. So, um I'm not putting that on there. We need to have access to medical care. Um and uh you know, and the teacher herself would would tell you that um that if it wasn't for being in school, she's not sure that she'd be with us today. So, um you know what? We can't we can't take that chance on the faculty, staff, and students uh by re reducing nursing staff. The problem is that for nine years we have not budgeted or we have not received funding that that that balances the budget on the expenses we had. So what we had to do over time is we had to keep reducing posi positions. Some of it was warranted because our enrollment dropped here and there, but over time we have got less kids
108but kids with more need and so then that that's a whole other issue. So >> Kristen, >> um I was just going to say also some of the positions on this list that these people are actually filling more than one. Um, one thing that comes to mind is like the play and some of the people helping out with that. So, you're losing >> all the important things they do in that their actual role plus all these other things that they do that they don't have to do for us. So, they're I just it's hard when you like interact with them all the time and you see all the things they do and people just like slash them off like they're a line and a budget and it's just, you know. >> Yeah. Again, I'm always
109apprehensive about talking about positions because there's a face behind the position, right? And so, you know, we don't want to get our district in a a morale issue. Uh last year, I will tell you that it was at an all-time low, not because of job satisfaction, but because of community, lack thereof of community support. Um it just weighs on people. um and you think about, you know, you're a young teacher when you first came in and are fearful that um you're going to be the first to go. So then you stop looking elsewhere and that's how we've lost some really good teachers along the way. Last year we hung on to mostly everybody. Uh which was a good thing outside of the people that we had to reduce. Um you know, but for the most
110part, no one else left after we made those initial cuts. But if I were a young teacher, I want stability. Um, and I'm going to go to a district that has stability. And then what are we going to do? We're going to lose some of our finest teachers. Um, >> yeah. >> Justin, you had your hand raised. >> Yeah. So, going back to last year, and I just want to refresh everybody's memories. Last year in pupil services was we originally the one of the budget drivers was $886, $886,000 was the original budget driver last year for special education. or people services. Uh before our first before we went to present that we added $277,000 to that number. >> Right? >> In that same realm, the we only if we were to have if we were
111to omit pupil services altogether, our total requested increase last year was $500,000. So if we if we get rid of the if we were not if the state magically covered pupil services, right, that 886,000 plus the 277, all we were asking for was around $500,000 as an increase to our overall budget last year. Now we're looking at $700,000 in um additional in unbudgeted for pupil services this year. We've offset that by the SEC GRT, the IDA, the seed, but we're right back in the same boat. And as we talked about this same time last year, we were a day away from presenting our budget when $277,000 hit us. this year on Monday night we approved on that Monday two weeks ago we we approved the budget and that Tuesday it was $165,000 hit us >>
112and today another out of district place >> for how much >> we don't know yet and and I yeah I wanted to finish that because between then and now we had a dump truck >> Yep. >> that blew up. We've got a steamer in the middle school cafeteria at $32,000. We've got a serving line that's 70 years old in the middle school that's $70,000 >> and a leak and a generator which is >> probably going to cost us somewhere in the 40 to50 range >> that we originally got for free that we repaired 12 months ago >> at to the tune of $26,000. So, we're in an aging district with aging issues. I we've something's got to break and we cannot continue to break our general education students to get there. >> Danielle, um I
113guess I'd be curious in positions. How much money have we invested into these potential teachers that we're going to get rid of? OG training, all the other things that we've already, you know, we we spent money on that. And same thing if we were to look at cutting any of the programs, the athletics, the track, we just had to have the welding program, which to my knowledge, we will owe money because contractually EB put in that stuff. I'm assuming we'd break our end of the bar uh the contract if we were to close the welding program. >> Well, they >> what are we going to pay them back? >> They invested in us uh significantly, right? a quarter of a million dollars uh between EB, Senidia, American Welding Society, yada yada. Um but the bottom
114line is yeah, I don't know. We made a commitment that we were going to implement the program on a long-term basis. So the one thing on the list you'll notice is that um we do have permanent subs. Um and that's where that um came from. Why that is volatile is because if we don't have permanent subs in the building, then we need to call subs in on a daily basis like we did before we had the permanent subs. The issue with that is um you might not get a sub and then you're going to be doubling up classrooms because that's typically what happens or they split classrooms and they put kids in each class, right? The other teacher has to take that on. But that particular line is only going to make the daily subline
115go up. So I mean we put the permanent subs in years ago for that reason. It's not something I recommend, but it is extra. >> Quick question on permanent subs. Is there ever a day that all four are not being used? >> Never. >> No, I that's what I figure. I I I knew the answer to the question. I just wanted it said out loud. My thing is we have to also consider all the money we've recently invested and all the money that we've just put out. >> Yeah. >> That we're willing to now just >> it didn't matter. >> There's nobody sitting here that wants to do any of this. So >> this is this and Justin's right. This is the hard work that people did for the last seven years to build up
116programming, make sure we're supporting kids appropriately, not lavishly, what they need. um and and any changes is going to be devastating. And our families, if you're listening out there, parents, >> you need to you need to rise up at this time and you need to really advocate for your children because this is we're at a breaking point. >> If I may have one, sorry. I when we look through this list and I I know we're all looking at it at the table. We could let's say permanent subs, right? $108,000 for for staff $108,000 wiped out overnight. That that cost savings, if you will, which I don't ever think it is, wiped out overnight >> by an outplacement. And and I don't want to keep going back to that, but that's the volatility in our budget.
117We're we're the scale the inout scale that we've got right now doesn't fix the problem that we have. The problem that we have is we have a very high need and a and we there's no place else to realistically and safely pull that money from. And the gymnastics that our administration is doing already to get us where we are is impressive. To balance a budget as as delicately as we are. I I just I don't I know there's town people on the call right now and I and I know there's other board members and I I implore you to look through our budget and tell me, email me, call me, whatever you want. My number's up on the district website. Tell me where it's got to come from because I don't see it. I think
118the little bit we could take here and there is not going to significantly make any changes at all. >> Well, you're not going to get to $1.9 million, that's for sure. >> No. >> Well, and the number is not $1.9 million anymore. >> It's 2.3, >> right? >> I mean, it's not 2.3 yet. It's >> it's 1.9, but everything that's hit us between last time and now it's 2.3, >> right? >> Well, and probably more, but I don't know that number yet. >> Okay. >> I'm afraid I finally need to speak up. >> Okay, Rick. >> So, I went line by line before the idea with the number of people. I've highlighted everything you want to talk about excess. First, I looked at percentages and I highlighted everything that's 100% or more. I didn't count
119how many there are, but there's more than a dozen. And I said, well, then I looked at them. I said, well, some of those is only a couple hundred dollars or a couple thousand. Couple are 30 $40,000. That's when I started to look then okay so where did these lines go up big um so let me start at one other point it's it's a challenge and I think that's why governments fail is they roll up and they do averages and it all looks that you can't see where the issues are. So I came back and then I went page by page and started highlighting and I just highlighted it's up over $10,000 increase. So then I tried to figure it out. A lot of it's in health, a lot of it's in salaries, but when
120I see something in here, and this is where I think someone else looking at it besides us is going to go, "What are you talking about?" So I saw a line that's a 600 uh% increase, but it's in some kind of fees and uh Hey Rick, >> tech dues. Go ahead. on the left hand sides the numbers are are the lines are numbered so you can quickly identify and I might be able to answer >> okay so line say line 14 I think that's one of the biggest percent increases and it's not a huge amount of money >> high school industrial tech dues and fees went from >> 700 to 4900 >> so I know $400 so I can tell you what that is um we got grant funding for students to have accounts in
121um American Welding uh soc uh society their pre per pupil cost um and um the grant funding ran out on that although we're still trying to chase it but um I think it was for 30 students bill um at I forgot what the per pupil cost was $30 or something like that. It wasn't a lot, but um we ended up having to put it in the budget in case we don't get grant funding or we can't use Perkins dollars, which is another grant. So that's why that one went way up. >> Gotcha. So then just um just to be sure, so line 38 is 400% increase. It's it's only $1,800, but that's guidance, dues, and fees for the high school. So some people are going to look at it different. Why is something 500% higher?
122>> Correct. >> But it's only a couple hundred bucks. In this case, it's a couple thousand. To Daniela's point and all what you have said, some of these won't make a big difference, but they're the nickels and dimes that add up. They may not add up to enough to prevent us from saying you need a couple million dollars more this year to keep the place afloat. But um so let me just uh new equipment uh line 64 in the high school 200% it's $2,500 >> the culinary. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So I think that's why folks asked us to be here. So um 400% line 77 $6,000 >> textbooks which was something even in um high school too. There's a >> instruction supplies. >> Those aren't going to be the same every year though. They
123don't buy textbooks every year. So you might >> But it's instruction supplies, >> right? So you might not see that line increase again for like seven more years. >> Kick these aren't textbooks. These are instructional supplies. >> Consumer line. >> They're consumable. >> Oh, line. No, the other one has textbooks. There's another high school, I think, has textbooks. Math textbooks. >> Correct. That's that's to purchase another class to use the CPM model that we're not using and I forget what um course that is but we have to buy the basic set um and then every year there's consumables after that and you know we had used grant money along the way to kind of pre-by um some of those consumables but we've kind of used them all now. My thought was, can we kick the
124can another year? You know, right? It's minimal money, but can you kick it another year kind of thing? Like, not that I want to, but >> this would be like not buying the Wilson workbooks in the elementary, >> right? >> Which you can't not purchase those to run that program, >> right? >> So, so not to interrupt Rick, I glad you're doing what you're doing. Um, we've done this before and no, and it's good that you're doing it. It's good that you're looking line by line. We've looked line by line. I've I know I have at home and you see these big percentages. >> Yeah. >> And but it's it's a big percentage of a small amount, >> right? >> You know, so it's so looking at the percentages makes it >> tough. It makes
125it a tough cell. And but if there's somebody out there >> just looking at >> at this document who doesn't have any context, then yeah, it it looks shocking. Um, >> so if you don't mind, I'll jump to a thought here because this is probably the taboo >> is to look at a salary line just to be cautious. >> By all means, >> we're here for it. >> And I I'll jump to line 208 because it's probably it's a specialled eastcon tuition. >> It's 83%, but this one this one is $125,000 increase, right? So that's they changed their rate this year. I think I heard Melinda say that a week or two ago. >> They went up 8%. >> So Eastcon tuition, they they sent out a notice uh about 3 weeks ago. Uh they
126went up 8%. That obviously doesn't drive an 83% increase. What drives the 83% increase above and beyond the 8% fee increase is the additional spending. And this this is essentially another place that outplacements show up. >> Okay. So that's >> So Eastcon runs an an out an outplay school. Uh and we have kids there. Um I forget if it's two or three. Um >> I think it's three. >> And that's over the budget. Um because remember when when we do the budget in special education, the board has made the decision that we're going to budget based on what we have currently. which is why, as Justin mentioned, late in the game last year, we had a $300,000 jump because we had kids move in at the very end of the year who would be in
127the number this year from because we're talking about last year. Um, so that's why that increased and and that's that's why >> if if I may, Rick, >> go ahead. If I may, one of the other things on that that I'd like to bring up is outplacement being a good thing, but external tuition >> that we have no control over, right? So, anybody who talks about outplacing the entire high school, >> that's exactly what happens. the receiving school could decide an 8% 10% 20% tuition increase and then a special assessment on top of it which has happened recently in the area >> and we get stuck with it. So we would get stuck with it. So I Rick I just want to be clear that some of those outplacement lines some of those you'll see
128some tuition lines in here. Those are those lines that that whenever they go up, we've got to get that money from somewhere else in our budget. It gets pulled from. Um, so I just wanted to make sure that we were clear on outplacements. What we consider outplacements today, a lot of them are in people's services. If we were ever to even consider outplacing our high school, >> Yeah. >> those would be general education outplacements. And on top of that, there's the special education outplacement that would fall in. So, >> and I'll I'll miss a few, but there was a thought. So, if I if I look at line 97, hopefully I didn't real increase, $38,000. It's MS general salary. So, >> no, go ahead. I didn't >> Go ahead, Bill. You can explain that one.
12916. >> So, there are 16 positions and what a great idea to add the number of Yeah. Two years ago. >> Um, so in it's it's a little different between the three schools in elementary and middle. Um, the teachers that have their own account are are interestingly enough art, music, fizzed. The the the remaining general ed teachers show up in in an account called the it's MS general salary. year it's ES general salary in the elementary school. So that's all the other teachers. >> Um so that's why that increase is there. Now I am almost I'm 100% certain no one's getting an 11% raise. But what you're seeing is if a teacher left the district and market forces hire caused us to to hire a teacher at a at a higher rate, we are now
130budgeting for that teacher at the higher rate. >> Okay. >> So that contributes to that 11%. So, so there are 16 individuals that are making up that flux. And and Melinda, I be willing to bet that whenever we have to replace a teacher, it's very rare that we're replacing them at a lower cost than the outgoing teacher >> because the number of applicants for a position, we'll use music for example, are scarce and then you get into a bidding war with another district, right? Um, so at the end of the day, I agree with you that that le 11% are some of those teachers that I've hired at a higher rate of pay than the teacher who left. The problem is if we had a better pool of applicants, it would be easier to hire
131the less expensive teacher. But you also have to know you get what you pay for sometimes. >> I mean, you see that with the elementary line here for music. Some of that would be being able to hire some of the younger teachers that are fresh out of school, but they don't want to take the risk on a district that may not have a job for them next year. >> Correct. >> Kristen, does that also include um like steps? Maybe some of those teachers are advancing a step. >> Absolutely. Yes. I don't know. This that's how the raises for for the teacher show up >> until the top step where it's a it's a flat rate >> general wage increase, right? Yes. And then coming from industry world, I when I look at a lot and
132I see 3% and I hear it's contractually agreed to increases blah blah blah. I see a lot of 3% 4%. But then when I see a line that's not 10% 20 30 40% increase on a salary line something just seems off. So and that's why I'm at least asking because other people gonna have pull us a new one. So, let's just look. It's an It's right here, line 128. I see it is three people. I just look that up. But it's 46% increase. That's $85,000 increase over last year. And it's a reading specialist salary, >> right? >> So, it sounds like we >> That's a toughy. >> I think we added a new >> added a teacher. We added teacher there. >> We added No. So, the year before we cut a reading teacher and
133it had a devastating impact on the middle school. So, last year we put it back. >> Okay. Yeah. Or this year. >> So that's So you went from two to three. >> Two to three. Right. >> And is that within that other list at all or >> the other sheet that you sent out >> of potential cuts? >> Potential cuts. The answer is no. >> I didn't put any include any reading interventionist on that. >> Gota. So then I mean we could do that for another hour. It's probably not worth it. I did see how big the increases are when you get down to pupil services. Yes. >> Um, sewer, uh, utilities, just like every other household in the town, uh, we're going to take a hit. I I saw like 30% up, 40% up
134electric, uh, heating oil. You did a nice job there. >> Uh, and then, so I'll just kind of leave if if the town's folks look at it, they'll say, "Yeah, they've looked at it." And I could tell you, I looked at every line and I went back two and three times and I'm going, "Oh my gosh." So something's up 20,000 or 100,000 whatever that I I kind of thought it's right to come and question you. That's what we're here for. >> Absolutely. >> That's why we're here, right? So the only other thing I was curious because again looking at the rollup, the idea of special ed versus the operating expenses of the school is hidden. That's the only way that I could say it. It's hidden because it's in there. It's in the ingredients of
135what this is. But I was kind of curious. >> Well, I know that is not is it is I don't see it. I don't see Sorry, what was your question again? >> So, what I'm getting to is there a way to split it. >> You're talking about special ed can change a quarter million dollars this month, >> right? We know what it we believe it's going to cost to run the school other than special ed. Correct. >> All right. So, say that's 5 million, but special ed could be 10 million. The the question is, is there a way to present this when it's there's a roll up at some point that says >> this is what we need to run the place. This is the volatile part. >> Yeah. >> And you need to understand.
136So when they come back and say cut $500,000 out and we said well you know people services could change that next month next quarter >> is it easier because I've heard this and I remember Rob Wge talking about it and the things like even with the capital expenditures you have to have a rainy day fund. So in this case you have to have a pocket of money to handle this. You can start >> by what you know it is and then you can we afford in the budget to say it's got to be another 200,000 more than that. >> So the the volatile the volatility really appears in the pupil services line and that's on if you're on the page the fourth line down. >> So it is it's >> it is segregated. It's it's
137separated, right? And then if you go to the the following eight pages, pupil services begins on page four, line 176, and you can go account by account. >> Oh, yeah. >> And you'll see >> it pops up in in all the areas we talk about. um out outplacements, pupil ser there's a pupil services account which is actually things like RBTs and they got to change that to contracted services is probably the better description. >> Um that it's accountants get a little touchy when you start messing with account names and numbers as Erica mentioned. Um, but you can see there a lot of the money is there in pupil services. And then Eastcon on the next page on line 208, which we already talked about, >> uh, is really just another bucket of outplace services. >>
138I never knew why that was separate and it wasn't just folded into outplace, >> right? And I >> I wonder if if once upon a time that's where our outpaced kids went. >> We were part of a well >> a consortium. That's right. >> It's a consortium thing. and that's gone away. >> Yeah. >> So, note to >> so I apologize for that, but I see it more clearly now. >> Okay. >> And I apologize for that, but it makes sense. >> Yeah. >> So, when folks say it's not there, it's there. >> No, it's all there. >> And I think I helped to clarify that. >> So, and that when you look is nearly 13% of this budget, >> right? >> Yes. The increase. >> So, folks need to understand. >> Yes. a 13%
139increase for next year, >> right? And that's >> that's what it says it would be. >> And which is not far from where we were last year to Justin's point earlier tonight and then late in the game we had some some students move in that that needed additional services and all of a sudden that >> we were at about 700,000 and then when all of a sudden we were over a million in the blink of an eye. >> Okay, Kristen, I just wanted to say so Rick, we can't have like a rainy day fund. It's you have to like legally budget for what we know like right now. So we can't say like, "Oh, special education is always really expensive, so we're going to put in an extra $500,000 like that." You can't >> on
140pupil services. Well, on the day it's finally there, well, we got to do something on the capital because otherwise you'll never get to FY272, >> which is what we kind of tried to tried to do. We tried to budget for the lockers and put money aside so that we could then pull that money once enough money was there to actually do the project, but then the money isn't there. >> So, >> I need clarification on how that >> Yeah. >> works because that is muddy. >> But you'll never get it done if we can't >> right >> have the funds like those other what do you call the other funds? The lapsing funing. Now, the just so you understand, the only the only way money gets into the non-lapsing accounts is if we finish the
141year under budget, which >> people I can hear it now. That never happened. Well, two years ago it did because things actually >> broke our way a little bit in special ed that year. >> Kids moved out that had a not just >> So, we often hear, "Oh, they're all kids only move in. They never move out." That's not true. It does happen. It's just >> doesn't happen often. It doesn't happen often and and >> move out and move. >> The other thing that's going on here is and Erica mentioned it again also this the the the cost skyrocketing is very real. So the severity of those costs helps unfortunately offsets when when folks do move out. I'm going to go on a rant guys. Sorry. Um the rainy day fund cannot be housed at
142the board of >> ed. Okay. >> The rainy day fund for the school and the town resides in the town's surplus. And the only way, if you guys go to the town meetings, you'll hear us carry on about this all the time. The guidance for town surplus is 16.7%. Boy, Bill, that's awfully precise. That's a couple months worth of expenses. So, we four, five years ago were at five. We have battled up to just under 10. >> Unfortunately, if we run deficits, that deflates that surplus and we're headed right down to five. >> Hopefully, not any lower because five is sort of this threshold where the state doesn't come zooming in and take over. but they really start to pay attention and ask questions and you're headed towards a potential loss of local control which
143would be devastating for our mill rate at that point. We no I don't nobody wants to go there. So, as I always try to advocate for when we're when we're budgeting revenues, I I like to be conservative, maybe slightly low, and we're budgeting expenses, I like to be conservative, maybe slightly high in the because something is always going to swing. The the class, we were talking about it earlier tonight, townside, we're we're twothirds of the way through our salt and sand budget and it's not even February yet. >> So, and I don't know if you've seen the weather for Sunday. Um I got a feeling it's going to take another hit. So by by by adopting that approach over the long term, you hope that when when you get hit somewhere else, you had a
144net of of other areas to kind of cover it. Uh last year uh great example, tough winter on salt and sand again, but our board of finance had put a had had taken steps to put the an appropriate amount of money in the contingency fund. Uh and and that money almost dollar for dollar ended up offsetting the salt and sand overage. If we hadn't had that, we would have been cooked. um which helped preserve sort of headed heading down the right road on on on surplus. So I guess I guess that I'm trying to explain why we can't do it within the board of finance, but we certainly can do it as a town by budgeting appropriately and and and having some some also a layer of level of fiscal discipline too, which I think
145is anybody who participates in these meeting that's that's certainly the goal. Okay, Daniela, two things. Are all of our tuitions for outplacements been given to us? We have Eastcon. Do we have whatever other schools >> as of like we know >> as of last week? Um yes, the number we gave you last week was accurate. Uh we've had some changes along the way and we have a change today. I don't know what that number is. Um, so I mean we can certainly calculate that for the next time so we get a real number for you on how it went up from the 274 that we were in FY26 deficit to what it really is now. Um, we should have hard numbers um probably by by next week um once we identify the placement for the
146students. >> Okay. And the second thing, Bill, I'm I believe you've already done it before might be worth doing again. Will anyone look? Will anybody care? Um, you use Excel, correct? >> I do. >> I love Excel. I love me some Excel. >> I still am too old school, right? I use Excel. Is it worth maybe highlighting because as Rick said, um, he didn't quite notice people's services directly, right? We That's a hard dollar. They're contractual. >> Is it worth just highlighting in yellow all the contractuals so people can see this is all contractual. We can't touch any of this. But if you'd like to find me something in this not contractual to cut, let us know. >> It's interesting because the board has has done that not on this these sheets of paper, but
147in the coming weeks, you'll have the distinct pleasure of going through the PowerPoint deck that that is used to present the town the budget to the town. >> And we actually have a slide or two. >> There it is. That that gets to exactly what you're saying. I know as we like look at it here like I highlighted everything in yellow >> salary salary you know what I mean I was like these are all the things and then I went back and looked and went yeah where what so could be helpful to other people if they want to look line by line >> right >> and say okay like this can't be touched because even if we look at something that's an increase of 100% you still can't touch it because it's contractual >> um
148I don't know it could probably just mean nothing but maybe it would help one or to people. It's easy to highlight a row in yellow on Excel, you know, easier than other things that you could have to do. I don't know. Okay, >> Matt, >> to to educate Rick a little bit and also anybody else who's online who who who wants to pay attention, we have these capital things that we we want to do, we need to do. some things need more than others and but but so we we do budget for them in in a lot of years. This year we have it. Um and so but what happens is it's you know $200,000 for this for these capital or maintenance things and then when Melinda says hey uh somebody moved into town I
149guess we're not painting the lockers this year because the money's got to come from the money can't come from anywhere else now. It's that's but so it's over over the I've been in looking at these budgets for I've been on the board for four years but I've been looking at these budgets my daughter was in kindergarten for 15 years essentially and there's always something a lot of these budget items a lot of these you might want to call it a wish list it's not a wish list it's a necessities but essentially it's a wish list because we don't have the money a lot of these things have been budgeted for for 15 years, my 15 years if not more, and they get deferred and deferred and deferred and deferred. >> And now once once things
150start exploding and caving in, it can't be deferred anymore. >> And so, you know, this this one 1.9 or call it 2.2 2 or 2.3 increase that we have this year is going to be nothing compared to what happens when something major happens that we can't not fix. >> Mhm. >> So you know some of these things >> the generator or cafeteria. So, at some point, and we have a little bit of money in these non-lapsing accounts that we're going to have to that we are going to essentially eviscerate to to pay for these things that have to be done. >> Replacing 70-y old equipment. 70-y old equipment. >> I looked at it. >> She she nicely put the years old. So >> they serve different. >> You know, if we were if we were
151replacing 5-y old equipment because we bought the wrong thing or because something failed because we bought because we bought cheap stuff, that'd be one 70-y old equipment. Yeah. >> Or a 20some year old generator. >> Some 20some year old generator is not designed to last as long as we've been nursing it along. So, and but anytime we have something a special ed just kind of go gobbles it up because we have to legally pay for those things. We don't have to legally paint lockers except when we do correct because our accreditation just get rid of >> So we used to have um when I first came uh you didn't have a painting cycle then we developed a painting cycle cycle and every year each school got to pick two or three classrooms to paint and
152we were we were humming along and then the budget we got into trouble with the budget and that was the first thing. We haven't painted a classroom in years. Um, and so we're back to if you go in the classrooms, the walls are dirty. It looks gross. Um, you know, learning environment matters to student achievement, believe it or not. Um, and so, um, yeah, the things are starting to look dingy again. Um, you know, we've had a few custodians go around and like especially here in the middle school where the bottom is red, it chips easily. You know, they'll do they'll touch it up for me at night. But I mean, you don't want it to look awful. The environment needs to be kept up. But this isn't painted classrooms in years. >> We shouldn't
153look like we're in a war zone. This isn't Bridgeport. I've driven I've never been in a school in Bridgeport. I've driven through Bridgeport. And I wouldn't want my kids to go to school there. And we shouldn't, you know, I'm not knocking on Bridgeport specifically. I've just driven through there. It looks like a war zone. Um, this is it's a nice little town and we shouldn't subject our kids to third world conditions. >> Justin, >> sorry. >> Yep. You're okay. >> No, I I don't want to drag this out any longer. Rick and Daniela, I suggest you guys pull up last year's >> I'll have Danielle send it. >> Okay. Yeah, that would be great. um the our budget presentation from last year like we went >> line by line by line and then consolidated and
154>> and I think this slide even more so pulls it together better than anything else we could even >> articulate here in a meeting and that's that we there was $500,000 worth of budget drivers and then there was $1.2 million of a budget driver on top of that. And it it's just it's a it's a scale it's a magnitude of scale thing. If we were able to go year for year and say, "Oh, yep. We can just do a 2% increase or a 1% increase, great. We can we can predict that. We can do it." But when I mean last year, I I think we all grunted simultaneously when the $277,000 hit us >> the day before we went to present. It was just it was like, "Where are we going to get that from?"
155And and my fear, Matt said it last year and I'm gonna say it this year. We do the best we can to minimize every bit of any waste, fraud, and abuse, if you will, in this budget, and there is none. And then it goes to the board of finance, and the board of finance does their thing to it, and we get it back, and kids lose. >> Yep. Every year since I've been on the board, we get it back and kids lose. It's not anybody else that loses, it's the kids. >> And we've got a capital budget cycle here >> that that we've asked for because the town has asked for us to show them a five-year plan of where we need to go so we never get in the HVAC situation again where we've
156got to bond out and pray for state grants. We're going to be doing it again. >> Yep. >> Because we can't plan for any of it. >> Yep. >> Any other budget discussion? >> And I just want to say one thing. The years that we had ARPA money here, we back we applied a lot of um expenses like sub coverage and things that were allowable expenses under Opera by using that grant money. those years. And so that's how we kind of got through the deficit that special ed was causing during those years, right? We were able to apply some of those those grants to our operating budget. Now we're at a situation there aren't there isn't any there's hardly any grant money out there. Um and so um we're there's no other pocket of money
157that can offset um some of these costs. And so that's all gone. Um, and I think that's how we survived those few years in between. Um, and then we started to see again the escalating costs in special ed. And you know, we've made cuts. And I mentioned this last week. Um, the reason we have to go for supplemental is because the equipment and the supplies and things that we would not buy covered those costs. Well, guess what? We cut those all out last year before the budget was ever finalized. So, they're gone. Um, so we are at we're in a bad place. >> Can I just chime in? One, I did a lot the last few days anyway on chat GPT. >> Um, trying to help follow up with what you're doing, what Melinda has
158talked about and it looked like everything that chat GPT including for Connecticut, how do we what magic button? I wanted to ask Erica, what magic button can we push? And you guys, you folks, excuse me, seem to be pushing all the buttons it says are out there. >> The only other thing I think we're missing is going to be greater support from our population, general population. >> So, as we talked about communication, um, we need a 100,000 people writing those emails you asked about. Yep. and letters to the reps, including Chris Stewart and stuff, the folks we helped to put in office to get the funding out there that they said they were going to do, which is the hard part. So, I don't know where the funding's going to, but it's not coming back
159to what they said they were going to do to begin with. So, I do want to say great job. Uh, appreciate you bringing in, Erica. It helped me see a lot of the pieces better. And um all we have to do is we got to find more funding. I know you're trying. I got to figure out personally I'm trying to figure out how on earth we make it happen better than it is if it's even possible other than taxes on automobiles and land and propert houses. Uh but that seems to be when you look at what it says you can do, that's the only thing you can do. So when the folks do come back to say you can't have another million dollars in the mill rates, that's where we're stuck because that's the only
160thing allowed for us to do. And I've been listening for six months or so now and that you've been saying it >> and I've been listening and I've done further research and that that's all there is. Uh, I appreciate you letting me pose those lines by lines and somebody else is going to look at it, too. But, and I feel bad if I see the list that it's like, oh, well, the only chance to cut a million dollars out is you wipe out part of our education system. That's after everything you've done, that's pretty hard to take. >> Yeah, >> I know it's I know it's hard for you. It's It's hard to think we can't do it. But, but thank you so much. appreciate you. >> For anybody who did the math off of
161Erica's presentation, if that base economic cost sharing base ratio was accounted for for inflation today at that almost $16,000, that is $3.4 million that Thompson would have been receiving for this year alone, never mind over the course of the years. That's $3.4 4 million to the residents who are listening that would not be accountable to your property taxes if you would please reach out to your legislators. >> Yeah. >> C can we can or can can we post their links on our website >> as far as the information and where to write to >> how to write to your legislators. Here's their links email. Here's their phone. >> Can we also post that >> presentation? I gave a digital copy to Daniel. So, she's got it >> as part of our budget >> drop down
162on the website. >> Yeah. >> As a matter of fact, I had planned on writing to the families to give them an update of where we're at with the budget at the end of the week. >> Um, I will put that we have posted that information. Um, and we really need an advocacy around pressure from Thompson. >> And I'm going to get on my soap box about the advocacy piece one more time. The advocacy piece can't just come from the board of education. It has to come top down from town leadership. So that is the boards of selectmen working together in the district. That is the board of finances reaching out across the aisles to their own other board of finances in the district. That's us reaching out to other boards which we have. I'm
163working with Putinham, Killingley, Pomfort, Scotland, Chaplain, >> Woodstock, >> and I've put out the feelers also to Ashford, Union, Coventry, Canterbury, Sprag, Planefield, and whoever else is in Arcade District 4. I have reached out to every single one of them. I've reached out to Senator Flexer. I did get a phone call back. She's in a group that is supposed to be working on the economic cost sharing base ratio formula. That's on one of their things. I did hear from Senator Gordon. I'm trying to get him to come into a meeting with the board chairs. Um and then there has not been a response from Representative Stewart. >> Really? >> Kristen, >> I'm gonna piggyback off of that because I attended the CE legislative breakfast. There was one legislator there who does not represent our district.
164So when your legislators don't show up and do the things they're supposed to do, hold them accountable. We reached out to some of their offices. May responded and I think Gordon, >> she called me the same day. >> Yeah. So Stuart didn't. Um but hold those people accountable. Like they're getting paid to sit in offices. They don't show up to vote. And when an education bill does come across some of them, they're voting it down. Like it's our job to email them, text them, call them constantly, constantly. Cuz one letter doesn't do anything. But if everybody's doing it all the time, eventually something has to be done about it. >> That's Justin. >> Yeah, if when we post this, I think it needs a little bit of context >> because I can see this slide
165right here. >> Slides. I was like, "Oh god." >> Taking us to. But if you look at the highlighted data that I put below it, it explains everything you need to explain. We are >> 23ish% above Palrit >> when it comes to low income, >> which we know directly correlates to services. >> Students with disabilities, we're on average about 5%. I mean, the number is there and it's explained and and with what we're doing in our district with that with those demographics, we've done a damn good job at where we are. >> And our local funding is the lowest. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Are we done on the budget discussion? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, now we're moving on to number six, a potential budget adjustment. Do we have a motion to
166make any changes to the budget as was previously sent to the board of finance? >> Well, we didn't send it yet with a formal letter. >> Okay. >> So, I I I'm I'm not going to make the motion >> at this >> this time. at this time only because if I did >> it would be to add 380,000 to where we sat two weeks ago >> based on everything that's come in over the last two weeks. >> Is that an accurate number? >> As of today, >> and I'll and I'll give you the I'll give you the background. I'll give you the background that I have. That's the $160,000 people service. >> Yep. >> Out placement. That's the $48,000 in the lockers, the $72,000 serving line, the $32,000 steamer, and a $68,000 truck. >> That's
167the increase over last time >> over this. >> That would be the increase over the 1.932 38 358. >> That's just what's hit us in the last two weeks, right? >> And we have an aging building. And we just got a new >> Yeah. >> referral today for out. >> So >> that's that's all I got to say. I just can't. >> Mr. Stlets, >> I don't know if I'm out of line here or not. If I am, tell me to pause. May I suggest that you consider a motion to resend to to call it back from sending it to the board of finance to allow the board to react to some of these issues that we're dealing with both to the good and to the bad in terms of high or lower for the
168budget. I really feel that that that anchoring on a number right now is premature because the budget's still developing. The budget process is designed to allow both a vetting of what's in there >> on Rick. And time for some of these things to develop. Our actuaries were a week early. So, I had that I had that bit of bad news on the pension a week earlier than we normally would. Uh, you know, actuaries are it's all black magic, so it takes a little time to get those reports turned around. Um, and there there will be more. Um, hope I hope for once again, I hope for good news on on health insurance. I can't promise it, but I hope for it. And I I I think it would behoove you guys to be able to
169react to those things either way. >> All right, >> Melinda. So, I don't know how I feel about that comment, but I can say this that it's not going to be less than 1.9. >> Um, because we've already gone through that procedure. Um, do I think that you might want to think about adding those additional costs that we're facing? We don't have a hard number on that and I think we need to get that. Um but um the reality here is it's not going to be less than 1.9. And I just want everybody to understand that you can tell me and take this this crazy list I put together which is not even a list, right? It is just a decimation of Thompson public schools. Um and and sure we may have to come to
170that because along the way I think we all know around this table that it's going to be a hard cell unless our parents come out advocate for the budget that we're going to actually receive 1.9 million at the very least. Um, so I don't know how I feel about that, but what I want to say is that the budget I gave you >> um is the minimum. >> Kathleen, >> um, yes, I I think uh we were a little rash last week and making that motion and agreeing to that motion. I would like to wait until the directors have gone through their uh budgets and explained their numbers to us. Uh it it may very well be the 1.9. It may be higher depending on what we hear last next week. So, I would like
171to make the motion that we do resend our decision to send this exact number to the board of finance and that we wait until we have firmed up the budget a little a little more before we do decide on an actual number. >> I second that. >> Kristen beat you to it. >> All right. All those in favor to resend the budget as was previously presented, we'll go around the table. Amanda, >> yes. >> Rick, >> yes. >> Daniela, >> no. >> Kristen, >> yes. >> Matt, >> yes. >> Heather, >> yeah. >> No. >> And I'm going to abstain. >> Uh, can I vote? >> Oh, sorry, Catherine. >> Yes. >> I'll get it. happens. >> Okay. Um, so moving on from that, citizens comments, we'll start in the room. >> Nobody quiet on
172the Zoom. >> Motion passes, right? >> Yeah. Motion pass. >> Anybody in the chat? I know that there is. >> I'd like to make a comment if I can. >> Mr. Worge. >> Yep. Rob Werge, 452 LOL Davis Road. I actually have a few comments. I'll try to make it as brief as possible given the time. I want to start by um saying that I understand and acknowledge um the challenge and the situation that we're in as a as a community. I also want to thank the board of education for uh your consideration this evening for changing the plans on the fly um and for your time and energy and also for rescending the uh the last uh vote to anchor down on the on the budget. I think there's a huge u perception uh
173potential or a perception issue around that and I think opening it up speaks a lot to uh to the meeting that we're going to have on Monday as a joint group um and to the community at large. U you know there's no easy button right there's no easy answer. if there was, we would have found it um a long time ago. And these are basic things that we've been uh challenged with uh year over year. And just to draw a little uh color around the town, in addition to the challenges with the the board of ed budget, we we pulled a significant amount of money out of the paving budget for the town last year. And what that means is now every dollar we add, it's a year-over-year increase because you've you've kind of changed
174the baseline by by gutting it the prior year. The fire departments, we've seen what's, you know, what's what's evolved in the community around the fire departments and the trajectory that the fire departments are on. They're they're significantly underfunded and there's more that needs to happen for for them. Um probably one of the toughest winters we've had. We've gotten lulled into these mild winters and a little little at a time we've inked our salt and sand budget down. So this year, not only are we going to spend our whole budget, we're probably going to deplete our full inventory. Prior year as we go into the winter with an inventory of salt and sand. So that's another headwind. The HVAC significant cost, that bond is coming forward and we're going to start to have payments on that
175um in fiscal 27. So, I I bring those up not as um you know, doom and gloom, but just as it's just a a perfect storm of a multitude of of uh challenges in front of us, you know, as a town. Bill commented on the surplus, the surplus is sacred, right? Had we not responded to the surplus when we did, when it was at 5.2, too. And then we have a year like we're having this year where we know special eds running over, we'd be dipping down into 4%, 3 and a half%. Exactly where none of us want to be as a town. So I thank God that we actually put the focus and energy to push that up for situations like this. You know, I kind of cringe a little on rainy day. It's
176really not a rainy day fund. It's not a fun to just do things for uh you know, of choice. It's a It's a fun to do things that happen to us as a town that we, you know, that we're we're responsible for and we need to do. So, I I I just I'd end with saying, you know, we need to advocate for sure and educate and and that's across all the leadership in the town and get people out to vote, right? We need to get people out to vote and support our town. And that sits on on everyone and all the boards and commissions. And then I'll just end with this. I mean, my heart breaks for our our school, for our town, for our community. Um, I can speak as Rob Works from from
177the board of finance. I can speak as Rob Works as a citizen. And I care and want what's good for this town. And we're we're in a tough spot, and it's going to be a tough year. And and I'll just end with thanking you again. I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate the openness to kind of dig into it. and I look forward to um to getting together on Monday the 26th, hearing their presentations and uh deep diving again into the budget. I know that was long, but thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> G hand up first. Okay, >> Amanda G, you had your hand up. >> Hello, Amanda Godding, 21 Rachel Drive. I'm an elementary school parent whose child is going into the middle school next year. I was actually typing in the
178chat because I wasn't sure if it would just be easier for me to ask. Is there um someone I could email to ask questions about um some of the topics that's come up in the board of education meetings? um things that have changed um items that my f my son has told me is going on or not being addressed as to maintenance in his school without wasting anyone's time and thank you to all the board members for being here. I really do appreciate your time. >> So, um I would direct you to refer those emails direct to uh Superintendent Smith. Her email is right on the website. >> Oh, no problem. I definitely have her information. Thank you so much, Melinda. >> Yes. I I'll be happy to chat with you. >> Thank you. Have
179a great night all. >> You too. Thank you. Sarah. >> Hi. Hello. Uh Sarah Dej 210 Pompeo Road. Um so I first have to say ditto to exactly what Rob had stated. Uh education is so important. Um me being also an a special education teacher, I can see it from both both ends and both perspectives. Um and I I heard at the beginning of your meeting that there is possibility of getting rid of a prek teacher and also a parah which makes my heart like cry. Um they are the foundation to our education for our students. and my question that I had put in the chat by I didn't realize I'm sorry I um I didn't realize I had to wait till citizens comments my apologies on that but my question is are the is
180the district still NYAK accredited and if so wouldn't that mean that there has to be a certain amount of students in each of the preschool classrooms and they can't have above a certain level or a certain amount of students students in each of those classrooms. Um, and also with that NYAK grant or accreditation, they also have special requirements that make it um necessary for that amount of preschool students. I just was curious if we are still accredited as a district. >> Yes, we are accredited. We went through that process last year and the team at Marriott officer came out with uh very good scores in our accreditation visit. Um there's not a necessary minimum number of students that need to be in each class. However, they give a recommended class size. Uh we're not exceeding
181that in any way at this point in time. Um but um we are accredited. Obviously, we want to have a good group of students in each classroom. Right. uh there's opportunities for them to socialize and learn play skills and navigate life. Um and so uh NYAK does give you a specified range of recommendations for each classroom. Um right now, like I said, we're not exceeding class size limits. Um uh and um I don't believe there's actual minimum, but if you think about it rationally, right, you want enough you want enough children so that they can interact with one another. Correct. Right. Okay. Excellent. And do does NYAK also provide grants to this the district as well to help fund some of these uh preschool programs? >> No. No. They they they're they're an accreditation body,
182right? They come in and evaluate the program. Provide grants. They might offer PD opportunities for our teachers um but not specific funding. >> Okay. Excellent. Thank you so much for your time and a wonderful job on the whole board. Thank you so much for caring about our education for our students. >> Thank you. >> Anybody else on Zoom? >> All right. Then I'm going to call for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. And we're done. Thank you.