001Good evening. I would like to call this workshop to order at 2:16 p.m. Our first item is an item number 126-3638. Student safety presentation titled traffic stops and teen drivers staying safe, smart, and in control by assistant state attorney Robert Lewis of the office of the state attorney and the fifth judicial court and also Dr. Morris. Um before you guys begin, I would like to say that um if we can try to keep your presentation to the 45 minutes, I'm sorry that we're starting late. Appreciate it. You may begin and welcome. Good afternoon, board chair, board members, superintendent Pinder. Uh my name is John Morris. I'm sec director of secondary programs. Uh today I have Mr. Robert Lewis um in here today. He he's just going to do an overview of a presentation. Mr. Lewis
002had uh come to me to discuss um getting into classrooms to educate students on traffic awareness, um how to handle certain situations and such. Um, and I know he also came to a a board meeting and discussed this with you guys during citizens comment and the request was to have uh Mr. Lewis come back and present. So, you know, what we talked about was he's going to do really an overview of the slides. He's not going to go through every individual slide um and overview, but I think the important thing is probably to see, you know, get your thoughts about this being in schools. Uh obviously geared towards high schoolers and uh you know, with the videos and such, you know, and your thoughts of if this is something there's things in here, you know,
003we don't necessarily have standards for this kind of thing. We have driver's education, but not all these these things are more geared towards how to handle certain situations when it comes dealing with police or anything like that. So, it's more geared towards that as opposed to just straight driver education standards. So, I just wanted to make you aware of those as he starts to discuss those things. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> That is correct. Thank you very much. I appreciate the time being here. Um, just to refresh your recollection as to last time I was here, just my background, I'm a homicide prosecutor with state attorney's office, but specifically I do the um, traffic homicides and I've done that for about seven or eight years. And while most of those involve alcohol or reckless
004driving or something like this, what came to my attention is that these kids work really hard to try to get a driver's license, get a learner's permit. uh there's a whole lot of information as to how to how to get to that point. And then once you get get the driver's license, there's really nothing out there to help them deal with law enforcement. I've I've dealt with law enforcement as a prosecutor many years ago as a defense attorney. I know kind of both sides of it. And I think I can present a pretty even-handed safety presentation. And again, I try to emphasize I'm not here to say look at whatever the cop says you can do and you stand up and do whatever they or most of the stuff on YouTube they're seeing right now
005is how to be a constitutional lawyer and how to argue your way out of a ticket, how to how to get likes, how to get views, things like that. And my goal is to just give them enough information to know what to do when they get pulled over, how to where to keep your hands, how to act appropriately, things like that. Um, and if they're going to, you know, refuse a a search request or something, how to how to do that? How to do that politely and and the whole goal is student and law enforcement officer drive away and everybody's everybody's good at that point. Uh, I've got a video I've got two excerpts of a video included in here. Um, it was from u about a year and change ago up in Jacksonville uh
006where a driver um had an interaction with the police. got quite a bit of notoriety. Um, I use this as an example um to as far as what to do, what really what not to do. And we'll start we'll start with that. I try not to be too hyperbolic with it. Um, but I thought this was an appropriate way to at least get their attention. >> When he pulled me over, he walked up, open my door cuz my window don't work, right? And then he I said I said, "So, what I did wrong?" >> He said, "Well, for one, uh, your headlights are off under this weather." I'm like, There's multiple people headlights on first of all and then and then there's and then there's no rain. >> It doesn't matter. You're still required to
007have headlights on. >> Can you Can you pull that law up? >> Huh? >> Can you pull that low? >> Yeah. When you step out of the car, I will. >> Can you pull Can you call your supervisor? >> Can you call your supervisor? >> All right. Go for it. >> Exit the show. What is your reason, sir? >> What is your reason? start with that and basically we start asking the students questions. What what you know what do you what do you how do you think the law enforcement act acted? How do you think the driver acted? And again at first glance you look at that going why on earth would this guy get punched? Why would this guy get ripped out of a car for just sitting there asking questions? I then show
008a longer version of it. And the reason I do that is I want to give them an idea of what everyone's perspective is. Not just the perspective of the driver, but the perspective of what the law enforcement officer is, what they see, and give them a little bit of understanding with this. So, and then the and then that this is the slightly longer video that I play for them. I think it's longer. Florida bravo echoey whiskey on a silver whiskey. >> Yes, sir. >> Is there a reason why you're popping the door open like that? >> I don't have a window that works. Is there a reason that you're pulling me over? >> Yeah, absolutely. There's a reason why I'm pulling you over. For one thing, inclement inclement weather, you don't have your lights on.
009Two things, you're not wearing your seat belt. >> It's daylight. I don't need the lights and it's not weather. It's not raining. >> This is not raining. >> Okay. I'm not arguing with you. I'm telling you why I'm pulling you over. Give me your driver's license, registration, proof of insurance. >> Call your supervisor. Why? >> Excuse me. >> Call your supervisor. >> Why did you pull me over? >> 35. I've already told you. >> Why did you pull me over? >> Step out of the vehicle. >> 94. Driver just slam the door and lock it. >> Yep. >> 25. Anybody respond from block? >> Keep your hands where I can see them. Sir, >> your camera's on, too. >> I've already told you. Okay. >> Okay. >> Right now, you're under arrest for resisting. >>
010You understand? >> You're under arrest for resisting. The longer you take this on, the worse it's going to be. Sir, this is your last warning to open the vehicle and exit before we're going to break the window. >> Open the door and exit or we are going to break the window. Open the door and exit or we are going to break the window. >> No, he's under arrest. Hey, I'm about to break the window. >> I'm about to break the window. >> Exit the vehicle now. Exit the vehicle. >> Show me your hands. What is your reason behind your back? >> Now, that obviously shows a longer perspective of this. And again, I don't want to be overly hyperbolic with them, but again, I can find shooting videos I can find much worse than this.
011I want something to be able to grab their attention as to first of all what the perspective is and second of all how these things can go south even if you are you have you're going 10 miles over the speed limit. Uh you get pulled over and what the proper interaction would be with a law enforcement officer um at that at that juncture. As far as the video portion, do you guys have any questions on that? Okay. I go through kind of a question and answer. I I I put a little bit of the text here where we go over what was said, what was done, how did they act, and again after the second video, how many people think the cops acted improperly? Okay. And they probably would say, I'm venturing to say a
012few more will probably say, well, now that I see everything, I kind of understand why it went down the way it did. Again, with the whole premise being let's let's prevent this from happening in the first place. you you are and and realistically this gentleman, Mr. McNeel, had arrest warrants, had things. There was a reason why he was doing this. Um, presumably, most of these kids are not going to have anything like that. It's going to be probably not paying attention, something along those lines. Um, and put them in a position, you know, where they understand what to do and how to how to uh talk with um how to talk with law enforcement. Um, we'll talk about what he could have done differently, what what the cop could have done, what the driver could
013have done. Um, try to go over with them the fact that this presentation is not I try to draw it down the middle as being pro-safety for them. Um, given giving given them some advice of things that I've seen and how I've seen things how how I've seen things go go sideways. Um, after seeing that, I think a lot of the questions I will probably get is, well, I don't have warrants. I don't fight cops, so why does this apply to me? Well, you might be distracted. Um, you might be, you know, somebody, yes, you could have somebody fleeing from a crime, everything like that, but it could be just as easy as you got, you're listening to the listen to the radio, you're listening to the music, and you you're you're distracted. You may
014not be paying attention. There's a whole host of reasons why this might happen, but the key is how are you going to act when it does happen? Um, I go I try not to go way too much on the law, but a lot because of all the misinformation a lot of the students have is, well, if you know I'm speeding, he can't the cop can't pull me over. Well, the cop can pull you over and I I tell them the authority for why they can do a traffic stop and things like that. I'm not going to belabor that with them. I don't know that they'd be terribly interested in it, but I want to let them know that contrary to what they might have been told, the cops generally aren't just going to be hassling
015them for the sake of hassling them and pulling them over for that. Um I go through a couple of probably three or four scenarios here of different cases that have happened around the country over the last 10 years where um what looked to be a routine traffic stop turned tragic when one of the kids uh in in the car uh Mr. Rose ended up getting shot as they were as they were running away. Um Jordan Edwards was shot. He was riding in a car uh and he was he he was unarmed. the vehicle's pulling away. Apparent my reading of this is Mr. Edwards as a passenger didn't do anything wrong, but because of the situation, this is how quickly these things can can go ahead and escalate. Um, this is a case of a next
016slide is a case of a 17-year-old shot by um uh Texas um Texas DPS. Um uh again, most of these have kind of the same premise of a what looks to be a rather routine traffic stop that ends up that ends up going wrong. Um again, broken tail light. Look at I've I've raised three teenagers. Um I'll say relatively successfully because I've got two of them that are actually gainfully employed right now. So I'll take that as I'll take that as a victory. But as you know, these kids, they don't They're not used to these situations. I was and the example I'm going to give them is quite honestly I was going to court about three four months ago and I was pulled over. I was pulled over by one of the officers that I
017I did a training with and everything. I know every cop in Hernando County. I was nervous. I was I was speeding and I had no realistic basis to think anything was going to go sideways. I was nervous. And if I'm nervous talking to talking to a cop that I know, I can imagine what what's going through their mind on somebody who doesn't and doesn't know what the process is of are they, you know, why why does the cop go back to the car? Well, he's running the tag. Why did he take my license and why does he have my license so long? Well, he's making sure there's no warrants and things of that nature. And, you know, just to try to get them to breathe a little bit, calm, and answer the questions respectfully. Um,
018I talk about not just a broken tail light. I've talked I give an example of a uh of a speeding uh incident. Um, the failure to pull over immediately, there are some students that say, "Well, no matter where I'm at, I need to pull over." Well, if it's, you know, if it's late at night, you're in a really dark area, uh, most law enforcement officers are going to tell you pull over someplace safe. If you have, if you have to go a little bit and do that, go ahead and do that. And again, trying to focus on trying to focus on safety first. Um, again, try to explain to them that tra that when you get pulled over, it's not traffic court. Um, that, you know, a little bit of grace probably goes a long
019way in terms of being polite with the officer and things like that. Uh, but I also explain to them, you might get a really good cop on a really bad day who may have just had an argument with their significant other. There may be a and and maybe you're getting more attitude from the law enforcement officer than you think you should be getting. Well, things are, as we all know now, are all going to be on body cam and they will be uh something that can be rectified down the road, but that's not the time to try to try to win your case in court. Um I try to give them from the cop's perspective what goes on. Uh the visibility of hands, where are you going to put that? Are there additional passengers in
020the car uh to minimize u movements? Uh what's your vehicle behavior before stopping? Um are there any obviously hopefully not, but odor of alcohol, marijuana, things like that. Um the fact of not I mean you're going to be nervous, but having your hands on the wheel at 10 and two, making eye contact, yes, sir, no ma'am, things like that are going to go a long way in deescalating this stop. um acknowledge the officer, turn on turn on your house. Yeah, I give them I give them a checklist of what to do. Again, it's not something they're going to have in front of them, but I think if they at least even are able to hear this one time, uh it's going to put them in a situation of, okay, they can at least start to
021go through this in their head and, you know, avoid what could potentially be, you know, a problematic situation. um talking about how to go. You know, if you have your license in your pocket, you know, that's the first thing is cops are going to be looking at your hands. What are you going to do? You know, ask can I can I pull my driver's license out? I have my license in my purse. What what have you? Can I go ahead and do that? Um you have the right not to answer questions if you want to do that. And if they want to do, you know, I just I explained to them if you're going to do that, you can do that. But please, you know, doing it in a polite uh but assertive way. You
022don't have to you never have to consent to a search. Again, as a prosecutor, people that consent to a search, that's always usually really good for us. But I'm not going to be talking to them so much as a prosecutor as I am somebody who look in in the example I try to give them is, okay, you're not doing anything wrong. you you you've avoided no per you you're you're living life the right way. What if you're from a family and I'll probably put it in more diplomatic terms than this, but uh maybe an economically challenged family where you've got five people and they all share a car and you may have an older brother that was in that car that night before. You don't know what's in there. Um you don't you just don't
023have to do that. But there's a polite way to do it. There's a polite way to say sir, I you know I share this car with family and uh I respectfully wish to not give you consent. right now. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Um and and so I try to arm them with that information of again the body language, how to how to how to comport yourself in front of law enforcement. Um I try to give them some examples of, you know, can the cops search my car? Yes, they can. One of the things we talk about is um I'll go to the you know the when I I talk about not just consent searches but uh canine I I have my college students say well if I get pulled over for a speeding
024ticket they can't bring the canine dog to alert on my car. They can't do that. That's illegal. And I explain to him guess what it's not. As long as the cops writing your ticket and not keeping you there an extraordinary period of time, if the canine guy comes up and the dog takes a walk around and alerts on something, that gives them probable cause to search the car. I I want these kids to have this information. Um it it's only the information is only going to help them at least understand the situation and realize, okay, this may happen. Um if I'm going to if they're going to ask me to get out of the car, I'm going to get out of the car. I'm going to act politely. everything's going to be on camera. So,
025if the cop is acting, you know, if having a bad day, let's say, that's all going to be something that's going to come out. Um, again, they don't need a warrant and things of that nature. If you disagree with the cop, don't, you know, again, it's not time to go to court. Uh, you can assert your rights politely, but, um, again, save the disagreements for court. Um, I even give them kind of the text of if you're not going to consent to a search, how you go ahead and do it. Um, lack of experience usually equals increased nervousness. Um, peer passengers, I try to focus on this, escalate tension. You can have one honor student in a car and that kid is amazing. You can have two honor students in a car and the IQ
026level goes right down to the floor. Okay? And so that's all that's also something that the law enforcement officers are taking into account as they go ahead and deal with this. And I want them to understand that if they want to go ahead and record something, they can certainly record it, but probably let the officer know, officer, I'm going to be recording this. And again, unfortunately, most of the things you see on social media are, hey, look at what this cops do. And they don't care if they get arrested. They they matter of fact, they want to get arrested. They want to get arrested because they want to up their social media profile. And that's not what I'm trying to emphasize uh during this presentation. Um I try to let them know that think ahead
027of time as far as okay, you get pulled over, they're going to want your license, your registration, your proof of insurance. Have that in an easily accessible place where you don't have to start going through the glove box or going through you have them in, you know, I have a clip-on visor where you can just have all of that up there when you get in the get in the vehicle. I talk to them about that or at least having it in an area that's going to be easily accessible that's going to cut down on hand movements. Try to stay as calm as they can. Take a deep breath. Uh understand that 90 999 times out of a thousand that cop is doing their job and probably is going to act in a relatively polite way
028with them. Um u again safer interactions, fewer misunderstandings. uh it's going to allow all of them to go ahead and um and walk away. So that's the basis of the president. I more than anything else wanted to make sure that if there's any questions um I'm more than happy to answer them. >> Mal, >> I hope you get in to talk with our students. I think it's it's needed and I think you will have some fascinating conversations with our students uh with real life situations that they may have been a part of or not been a part of but know about. >> Sure. >> But the information that you are able to share is extremely valuable. But I'd love to listen to the reaction of the students. >> Thank you. And again, I I I
029I can do it to a larger a I think it's probably going to be a little more effective, probably in the 20 to 30 student range. I think if I get an auditorium full of two 300, I'm going to have 10 people paying attention and the other ones I I know I've been around teenagers enough, I know exactly how they how they'd be. So, I think if I maybe a little and again, I don't I don't care about the time. I mean, if I have to come, my goal is over the next 12 months is to try to get this in front of every Hernando County student that has a driving driver's license or a permit. Um, >> I appreciate that. That is that is amazing of you to to dedicate your time and do
030that. >> Well, >> and it's very much needed. >> Well, thank you. And it's a it's it's a passion of mine because again the situations I see you again usually they're drug and alcohol involved but um you know if if I don't see another kid being cut out of a car after a bad crash or have to hear about a standoff between law enforcement and stuff like that um because you talk to law enforcement officers even the SWAT guys you know and they're dealing with sometimes really bad people um if they have to if if they have to discharge their weapon that has a psychological effect on them and a lot of times they're not right and they would, you know, I'm trying to make sure that at least from a traffic stop perspective, these
031kids are going to have at least they can at least try to recall that, try to calm down a little bit. Um, and I that's it's just going to go a long way. The sheriff's done a great job as far as trying to train the officers in the appropriate way to try try not to escalate the situation. It's not perfect and you know I I try to tell them flat out you may very well run into a cop that's not having a good day and you can't control that but you can control how you respond to that and that I think is the important part. >> Mr. Johnson, >> thank you. So there's there's no cost from the circuit court to the school district for this program. >> Absolutely not. I'm going to I'm volunteering
032my time for >> How long do you think a presentation would take? I can probably do it in as quickly as 30, as long as 60. Probably 45 is probably the sweet spot. I want to leave I I want to leave some time for questions. But also, what I want to be able to do during this presentation is in a classroom of let's say 20 or 30, take one or two of them, kind of bring them up, sit them in a chair, I'll be the cop, they're the driver, and I'll start firing questions at them and see how they react. Uh the the the uh dual enrollment students that gave me that idea, and of course, they're like, "Take the cockiest kid. take the most take the most popular kid, put him up there and
033do it's like this is not an exercise in humiliation, but you know I I I do want to be able to get hold their attention and get the point across. >> How I don't know if you can answer this question, but how much time in a given week would you be able to donate towards this? >> I I mean, look at Mr. Morris could tell you we're trying to just coordinate this. I'm in court quite a bit. >> I know. I I mean but um I can't give you a definite answer on that. But what I can do that's why I'm not that's why I'm saying okay we got to do this in 30 days and I got to get in front of everybody. I got to get in front of auditorians. That's not going
034to be but as far as whether it's going to be let's say incorporated into driver's ed or into some sort of an assembly or some sort of teaching something like that or if we take a day and I'll just take an entire day and just go class to class to class. We can do it that way too. Uh I'm I'm pretty wide open as far as that goes. All right. So, but once the schedule said Yeah. If we set a schedule, you'll be able to keep the date. >> I should be able to. Yes. Because I I I I have the trial schedule that I have is set usually several months in advance and things like that. So, that part of it won't be and again, I know when I generally have my my court
035date that you like the idea that you're trying to deescalate the the the actual stop, the confrontation, and that's a great idea and I think that would go a long way. One thing you don't have in this, which you you've glossed over in your notes, when when I get stopped, I automatically roll down the rear windows. So, as the as the policeman or the the deputy is coming up, they can look into the car and see that I'm by myself or with my wife, whatever it happens to be. >> But, I mean, that's just something I do automatically. But then again, >> I I do investigations for a living. So, I just >> understood. I think it's a shame that we don't already have it in our driver's ed curriculum unfortunately. It's definitely needed. >>
036Right. So, and just going back to my kind of point, I'm full on standards aligned everything. It just keeps us safe when it comes to something may come up and it's like, well, why was this in the school when it's not standards aligned? And um this is typically when people come to me with these things, it's usually an easy no because I don't want to put us in that position of having a guest presenter do something. Now it comes back to you guys. Why was this guy in a school presenting this? So this one, you know, obviously he he had emailed me, talked to you guys as well, felt that it was probably something maybe you guys at least wanted to hear out. It seems like you guys do think this would be something important.
037Um then the next step would if it's something you guys do approve um it would probably coordinate with the high schools in terms of doing right now we have drivers at at Central High School. They're the first one to start it with the with the driver program. Uh we do have a couple more schools bringing it back on next year as we go. So I would coordinate with those teachers who would it'd be easier for them to coordinate with Mr. Lewis. Hey, could I have you come out on you know October 31st? Not Halloween. That was a bad example, but um you know like something like that like come out this day, right? >> I have driver's ed from periods 1 through 3 from 8:00 till 10:30 and I'm giving you you know ask him
038two months in advance. Maybe that's something he can work out with his schedule and such or if it's something in the afternoon that way would be easier as opposed to hey just let me know next year what your schedule's going to look like because uh I know court changes for him quite often. It's up and down uh when he has to be there and such. So, I think that would be the next step. I wanted approval from you guys first. So, if something did come out of this presentation and then it jump back to you, why was my kid sitting in this class when this was reviewed? I didn't want to say, well, I can't say it's standards align because some of it >> my next question would be, Mr. to to Mr. Meyer, is
039this something we need to approve as a board or is this something we just need to consensus? what he just touched on, we need to make sure that we're covered on that. I love the program and um I think that once again, like Mrs. Duval said, I think it's something that the kids do need to see and I appreciate that you are willing to sacrifice your time and for you to do this. It's so passionate and I can't say thank you enough. But what you did say was we have to make sure we don't end up in a position where we have a student in your class and we get called as a board saying why is that student taking that sitting there listening to that when we didn't approve it. So we just have
040to we work out those kinks and I definitely think that it's >> I I don't think the board has to formally approve it. I mean I would think that would if there's consensus you give the direction to the superintendent something you know should be how you offer it. Um you know I mean I I guess are there some curriculum issues or these are just presentations that could be made across the district. We we have guest speakers and such, but this is something just because there's sensitive material in here was why I brought this. >> So, I think it's really within the sup superintendent's domain or you know, the board is supporting it, but it's up to the superintendent to bless it really. >> But we have Sorry. >> Can can we do a like you
041said during driver's ed? I think that's a great idea. Maybe sometime during that class. Perfect. Right. They're learning to drive. Second, can we do a notification to parents, a consent form that they will be sitting in on something that has graphic detail about being pulled over, etc., etc. That way, I would think we would be covered at that point as long as the parents are are signing. >> Yeah. Give them an opt out. >> Yeah. The consent is really important and I think there should be an opt out. And there could be some language that's used that some parents might find offensive and all that. Uh maybe some racially tinged language. So I I think that some sort of we can we can design a consent. >> Should that also go on parent square when
042it's happening for the sake of we've I've been in this position. I was in this position a year ago at one of our schools where all the parents were calling because we had a speaker there and it was um like our children advocacy center, you know, here in our community and good people and they showed up and they did a presentation. Well, the parents were wanting to know why weren't we told because we don't we didn't discuss certain things with our kid yet and the kids were little at that point and we didn't want them to hear such and such. Well, what had happened was the consent was the biggest portion of that consent, that consent form to go home. But a lot of times too, you send those home and it those kids don't
043give it to their parents. So you got >> then they don't they're not going to be able to stay in the class. Just like on Parent Square Skyward, I know one year >> my son was going to watch a video and the teacher's like, "Your mom didn't sign the consent. You can't watch it." >> And I said, he said, "Can I call my mom?" And he said, "Yeah, but she has to sign the consent on Parent Square saying that or on I think it was Skyward at the time. I went on and signed it, acknowledged, and he was able to watch it." So again, I think we have Skyward, we have Parent Square that we could do a consent, and it just has to state. could be vulgar language, could be um disturbing material. You
044know what I'm saying? Like it it really needs to state that some of the things that they could see during this conversation might be too much for some kids and an opt out. >> Council, how do you when you go to other districts, how does that work? Do you have a solution for us on that? >> No, I really don't. And I think the opt out's probably a good idea. And again, I'm thinking now as a parent when I would get something like that. Uh, and certainly I'd like to take take a look at and things like that, but I mean I would think putting the onus on the parents to to get with you and say I don't want my child to have to go ahead and see this. I I really think most
045of the parents are going to want their want their kids to see I would >> Mr. Pender. Agreed. >> I was just wondering you, Dr. Morris, you said an opt out. I think we should do an optin. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> It's just a Well, I think it aligns with what we should be doing with the parental rights bill number one. And I don't think we're supposed to be doing OP. I just wanted to That's probably what you meant. I just wanted to be clear that it it needs to be an opt-in. Um, thank you for doing this. We appreciate it. I think it's I think it's valuable. >> I'll make a comment directed to Mr. Lewis as a as a as a lawyer. I remember when I was at the University of Florida taking
046a criminal justice class and the chief of police from the Kingsville Police Department was a guest speaker and he said, "You know who the worst people are to uh do a traffic stop on? First year law students." >> Oh, for sure. I can imagine that >> because they think they know everything. >> That's good. >> Well, and now with the internet, everyone's a first year law student, right? With with some reals. We're all first year law students now. I watched some of these and again this was actually one of the tamer ones uh in going through different videos and watching and there there's one where this group of kids I want to say it was in Texas and they all got their phones up and they're just mouththing all and they're just they're these kids
047want to get arrested. They want to get and that's exactly what happened and and it's just I'm trying not to be the old guy in the room but it's just sending the wrong message as far as again I want the kids to drive away. I want them to hopefully they never get pulled over, but if they do, I want them to be able to drive away and I want a safe interaction and I just don't want to have to get up in the morning. One of the I guess as one of the burdens as a prosecutor I always have I get up in the morning, I watch the news and if I see something happening in Hernando County, the first thing goes through my mind is please God make this somebody I didn't put on
048probation. Okay, that maybe should have gone to prison or maybe we we gave him drug help instead of uh you know incarceration or something like this. And thankfully that hasn't I I haven't pulled that ticket yet. Um but uh you always worry you always worry about that and you just I don't want to get up and see some kid had a bad interaction at a traffic stop when I could have gotten in front of them and maybe you know if one of if one of them you know takes this and makes the right decision down the road then it's a victory for all of us. >> Perfect. And if I can just say I don't know in your earlier slides and I don't know maybe I don't want to be the old guy in the
049room either but um some of your slides at the beginning referred to did the cop make the right decision or what the reaction or whatever it name it says cop. I'm just wondering should that be like the officer >> law enforcement officer >> law enforcement I mean >> if we're trying to teach kids to be more respectful than or proper I just when it's written you know I I just thought about that >> and I have the disability being around cops way too much right so it rubs off on me sometimes >> all right >> thank you thank you for doing this >> thank you for your time right >> okay thank you so much >> thank you >> all right we'll move on now to item Number 2, 26-3587, presentation of Sunrise School site
050update by Brian Reagan, director of facilities and construction, and Jim Lipy. >> And if we can keep it under 30 minutes for time. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Short and sweet. >> Good afternoon. Welcome. Wave again when you're ready. >> Clock's ticking, Jim. Good afternoon. The uh the essentially the purpose of our presentation here today is just to give you anformational update on where we are since the settlement agreement was signed with the developer and with the county for Sunrise and uh um essentially looking at what our next steps are, how how do we move forward? So our goal today is to try and get uh uh consensus from you to to so we can get direction from the superintendent on how you wish to move forward. The first thing I'd like to
051present is is basically uh a simple timeline. Um and as under the assumption that you would grant consensus for us to move forward, uh we would begin tomorrow with negotiating a property access license agreement which we'll cover in detail a little bit further and there's also an attachment uh as well that has the draft agreement there. Basically that uh that grants us as the school district uh the right to enter the property and to conduct due diligence so that we can make an informed decision on whether we wish to decline the property or accept the property. Uh following that is a is a 120day due diligence period. Uh there are a number of tasks that are listed there. Um part of the license agreement uh uh asks the current owners to provide whatever information that
052they currently have and then whatever they don't have of these tasks we would then need to do. Um wrapping up the due diligence then uh uh early August allows us to to bring this back in front of you at a workshop on August 25th. We'll review with you uh uh all the findings from the due diligence and uh and then uh get a consensus on whether to accept or decline the school site that has been offered. Now, here in part two of the timeline, it diverges into two different paths. If the consensus uh of the board is to decline the school site, we would uh we would issue a letter declining that offer. Uh and then that would be signed at the September 22nd schoolboard meeting. If the consensus is to accept the site, uh
053then we would uh issue an acceptance letter that would be followed by a period of negotiation uh where either a transfer agreement, purchase and sale agreement, whatever whatever that document is that the attorneys uh deem appropriate. that would be negotiated and then brought back on the September 22nd meeting for the school board to approve and sign the acceptance letter. Then while the transfer agreement is being negotiated, uh then that would follow shortly after on October 20th to approve and sign that uh transfer agreement or purchase and sale agreement, whatever that would be. uh final title review and closing would follow thereafter. Um and the the time frame really is kind of tight. You'll notice the statement in red as per the settlement agreement uh if we accept the property uh the closing deadline is December
05431st of this year. Um but should the board wish to proceed with that, we feel this is is an appropriate timeline and schedule. >> So I I'll get the next slide. We only have two more to go, so we should make our goal. Um, the uh license agreement that's attached here as a draft. It would be negotiated. As Jim mentioned, it just basically says we can come on the property and do our due diligence, but we won't disturb anything or any operations. Um, they're supposed to provide copies of the documents they have. Jim already touched on that. Um we would have um our agents would have to have liability and auto insurance to go onto the property and we would indemnify and home hold harmless the owners. It's a 120day agreement and basically we would
055do the survey geotech um geotechnical investigation to see what kind of soil is out there. A phase one environmental. We would do an appraisal. um we would do a title commitment, title search, that kind of thing. So, we'd have 120 days to do that in this agreement with the option to extend it for 90 days. And then the last slide is um basically just a checklist of the things that that we have to do to get there and the due diligence and well overall some of the things we've already done. Um and some of the things like the impact fee credit voucher we would have to do that whether we accept the land or take the money in lie of the land. So that's that's either way. >> May I ask a quick question? Do
056we >> you may have already given us this information. Do we know the price of what the survey the g like the land soil testing all of the things that you just mentioned? >> Do we have a rough estimate of what >> we're we're budgeting about $20,000 for that in that budget. I did not think about the geotech uh survey. So, you could probably add another 5,000 for that. So, probably 25,000 would be be a better number. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh we wouldn't be paying anything. Uh Jim, do you want to explain better how it works? >> Cost of the land, whether we're paying >> Well, the appraisal is going to determine that. And Jim, why don't you elaborate? >> So, if if they were to give us the land, they're not giving
057us anything, right? we still have to give impact fee credits. Um, so that puts us not getting the land for free naturally. And at this moment, how many impact credits does this equal? Until we have a survey, we wouldn't an appraisal, we're not going to know that. >> And and and you're right, it does it does hinge on knowing what the property appraises at before we're able to calculate um >> the impact fee credits. Is that still one and a half times the value or is it going to be one just a straight value of the land? >> It's just the straight value of the land. That that >> that was correct. >> Was the appraisal cost added into the 25 that you just mentioned? Okay. Thank you. >> So, the due diligence is kind
058of a double-edged sword. If we decide that we want the land, then the due diligence would give us that information needed to be able to make the right decision. Um, but if we think going into this that we do not want the land, then why would we spend the time or money on doing the due diligence, >> right? 25 grand. Um, I think the reason that we shouldn't take the land is it's next to a sewer plant and the county is also talking about expanding that sewer plant. So, that alone, it's also across the street from a distribution center with a lot of big trucks and there's a mine across the street with also large trucks. It's dangerous traffic with all this large equipment being on top of a school. Um, even if the price
059was right, I think you get what you pay for. So it looks to me like the land itself, the topog topy is very low at the beginning and so where that land is essentially we might end up with only about 40 acres anyway usable and that would if that's the case that 40 acres is about the same we have over on McKithan correct >> in terms of developable land. Yes. >> So at McKithan we can only do an elementary or a K8. Our hands are tied because of the size. So that would also tie us would be in the same position with the same size property of just doing elementary or K8 if I'm looking at it correctly. >> I would agree with that. Yes. >> Okay. So, and there's um could be a flood
060zone depending um naturally you have to do all this to figure it all out, but it looks like it's leaning more towards that than not. Um, so with the survey, the environmental assessment, the title review, the appraisal, the 20,000 plus the other that we didn't um, calculate in, I just think that the 20,000 that we spent plus the other, whatever that would be, upwards of maybe 30,000, we wouldn't get that back whether we accept or decline. Anyway, that money is gone. Correct. So, >> let me ask you another question. We have another piece of property. Uh, I'm sorry. There's another development next to this one where we we're supposed to get 20 acres. >> There there had been an offer uh by Opal Farms uh for a parcel of land um that I'm trying to
061recall where where that decision. Yeah, that was >> so yeah, I met with a lady. She actually mentioned it at a board meeting. um I don't know remember her name um but she she came up here and got an extension and she mentioned this property so I did go out and meet her out there and >> um at the end of the day it it is near this property but away from the sewer plant. It's a much better parcel. >> How big is it? >> Um I think it was variable. She was all over the board with it. She was going to show me a property that was a mine but when we got out there was another one but it went up 80 to 100 acres. But there was there was there was another
062development being considered right next to Sunrise. If I remember correctly, we're we were spo we're supposed to get 20 acres on that one because I believe altogether was going to come out to like 80 to 100 acres when we were done >> that was Padone next to the sand pit. Mhm. >> So that that particular parcel was under discussion but was never committed to in the original DRRI in the >> Is that close to where this is where we could use that for the athletic fields and maybe use it to build a high school? That's my question. >> Um >> it's across the road, isn't it? >> It's it's across >> diagonally across the road >> of of Ketering. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So if if if >> if if that we if we got
063that property, we'd have enough land to build a a physical high school and then have athletic fields across the street. >> You better put a bridge for the walkth through again. And >> so be because there was there was no commitment in writing at that. >> We didn't get that property. >> We we still on the table. No, I was just qu Well, I'm just looking about because what we need out east is is a high school. >> So, >> I mean, that's why I was asking that question. We don't need another middle school. >> Sorry, Miss Duval's waiting. Sorry, >> Mr. Myers. Um, the property that's in question right now at Sunrise, it's next to a treatment plant. >> The county The county wants to expand that plant. What what law prevents us from
064from selling that piece? We we express an interest in buying it. We buy it and then we turn around and sell it to the county. Is there something that would be a really bad negative type impact on the school district for doing something like that? Because we know they want that piece of property. If I may. >> Sure. >> The expansion for the wastewater treatment plant is happening on property that the county already owns. That's immediately it's on the same parcel. Uh but they are expanding to the west, >> not the south. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> I turn it back on. Turn your light back on. >> Sorry. Or more of a comment. Uh and it's not so much a legal one. I given what's surrounding this parcel and all that, you really think
065you can do the due diligence in 120 days, I I just think, you know, dealing with uh environmental studies and things like that, that's to me overly optimistic based on my experiences with these things. But >> but if the goal is an elementary or a K8, we already have a parcel that's sitting there that we're doing nothing with. So, >> do we want to smell that? like we're going to be in the same predicament that we have with Nature Coast. >> That's right. If the goal is for a high school, it's not large enough. So, those are points to consider. There's really no reason to waste the money to do the due diligence on any of the >> How many have they built for? >> You don't know. >> Sunrise zero as of yet. >>
066It's site. It's all site prep. >> Yeah, they're they're doing they're doing the site work and preliminary infrastructure. >> I I haven't been out that That's why >> it is Math and Road. We can actually build a high school on it and put our fields where it floods. >> If it floods, they're not going to be able to practice. But I think I I don't know. >> That wouldn't be smart, though. >> I think putting a high school over at the other side or even a K through8 next to a sewage plant isn't smart either. >> No, I So why do we even want to move forward with this? >> I don't agree. My whole thing is that I had said earlier when you heard me say I don't agree with us um spending the
067money and wasting the money and buying that property. I don't agree at all. So >> So what does the rest of the board feel the same way? Do we want to just >> Yeah. I I you know with with the conversion of of East Side Elementary to a K8, we we don't have the the need to put a middle school or an elementary out that way right now. We have a need for a high school out that direction. So, if we can't accommodate a high school, we don't need it. >> I just don't think this is the property for us >> not to waste 25,000 for for >> Let's just collect the impact fees and and and the uh the mitigation or whatever they got to pay us up front, which is what $41,000 per
068house is what we're doing now. >> There there is, >> but they said that agreement doesn't exist. So, you know, >> well, the the the in the revised development agreement that resulted from the settlement agreement, and I don't quote me on this, there was a a dollar figure for um proportionate share. >> Yeah. >> I don't remember what it was, 200, 300,000. Not a whole lot, but >> All right, Mr. V. >> Two things. Um, we have the opportunity to have this property. would we ever have the opportunity to turn around and sell it without penalty? And second, Mr. Pender, what are your thoughts on all this? >> I think the problem becomes >> what I I want I want Mr. Pender to have. So with the some of the challenges with right now with
069maintaining property, if you remember the last time they were up here, we're selling this matchbox piece of property in the middle of a pasture that doesn't that's landlocked. To me, from what I know, we wanted to sell this piece of property, we would have to do the same steps. So, we would have to go through all that, offer it to a charter school, offer it to all these other thing, you know, all these all those steps that we're doing for that matchbox piece. And I don't think that we're going to end up being in the business where we're going to start flipping real estate as a school district. And I mean in the past, yes, if we could get a piece of land really cheap or donated to us and we can sell it and
070that's and we can dispose of it, yeah, we're going to make some money that goes into the accounts like we talked about. But also right now there's SB824 where there right now we have to create an annual inventory list of unused property owned by the school district with several required items like date of acquisition and current value. The DOE will adopt timelines and format for submitting the required information. Statewide report due by December 1st, 2026. So, we right now have to report to the state all of our property that were not being used. I wonder where that's going, >> you know. So, when I when I >> Yeah. I just think we need to be cautious about buying property right now unless we have a plan and we can put it in our 5-year facility
071plan as to what we're going to do or we're using that property in some way as a school district moving forward >> and our hands are going to be tied to try to sell it. We could sit on that for a while. So be careful what we wish for. That is next to a sewer plant. >> Could be a transportation center. The big thing is the charter. If we buy that property and a charter school says they want it, we basically have to give it to them for free. >> So, do we want to buy something we're not going to develop? It doesn't make and if we're not going to use it for the purpose we need, then maybe we just hold off and find another piece. >> Do we need another transportation at the
072moment? Like, are we grow outgrowing that area? I mean, I know like Pasco County has different transportation depots throughout the whole Pasco County because it spread out so much to have one on that side of the town. >> Yeah. I mean, we used to have one here. That was our transportation before it moved over there. Um, and then it was used over here for like another satellite for a while before it stopped being used that way. But we do have this property here for that that would get buses closer, of course. Yes. Could we could you use something out there? Yeah, we have McKithan Road. >> We could use that right now if we wanted to >> um as a transportation hub out there or another satellite place for transportation um >> or for an
073academy. >> But if I if we had the need for transportation, I mean, I think that would be more suitable because you got the the main entrance to the distribution center is across the street from this entrance. So, you've got all the semi-truckss coming in there for the Walmart distribution center. To me, it's just not a a good place for a school. And I know that when we were like last year, I think um Mrs. Rodriguez and I and uh different people like it was all we were talking about is trying to get to a settlement agreement so we could uh make a to get to this point. So, um, I know that she worked a long time on this and talking to everybody and I did and Mr. Rogers and the developers and all
074that to get to this point today. So, whatever the board wants to do as far as if you don't want to move forward with the due diligence, then I think we skip to the end of these steps. >> Agreed. >> And do that. I mean, if you do, then we have to start these steps. >> I mean, like Mr. Pender said last year, this is all we did with the you two gentlemen and you guys know how much we were involved and I just let's let me ask your opinions um before we close. Would either one of you suggest we buy this property. >> I'll go first, >> Mr. Reagan. >> Um I wouldn't suggest it and you know we're not getting it for free. >> That's right. >> Um I wanted to point that
075out. If we take the land, we have to give them impact fee credits. So, we're not going to be getting the value of the land. We're not going to be getting those credits. So, we're actually paying for it that way. So, it's kind of just like an upfront stipen, I guess, to give us somewhere to build the school. But, I I think I always said I wouldn't want my children or grand well, my kids maybe, but my grandkids, I wouldn't want them, you know, going to school next to a sewer plant. So, >> okay, Mr. Myers, I >> I just wanted to pick up on what the superintendent said about he was citing that bill. It's pretty clear the Florida legislaturator's goal is to restrict the ability of public school districts to buy property. So,
076they're going to place more and more impediments on local school districts. So, just sort of keep that in mind. >> And Mr. Lipy, what was your go? Sorry. There there is also a a statute I have it at the office not here in front of me that uh advises against locating an educational facility a school next specifically it says next to >> um >> s sources of of distraction odiferous it it uses the word odiferous >> okay >> so >> and weren't you concerned the topography of that property has a lot a different >> that's at at the entrance. Um it's it the land is a little bit lower and so um it would you know I'm not a civil engineer but you would really have to look at at where the water collects where
077is your entrance coming in and you know how does all that >> it could present problems. >> So Miss Bonszik >> we own Mckithan outright don't we? >> Yes. Mhm. >> And like you were saying, if you have to add or build it up, we might as well put the money in to build up Mckan the 80 acres that we already have if we already own it. >> We have like 40 there that we can use. Correct. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> Right. That's not built up. You'd have to build up the other 40 to use it. So, >> and how much would it cost us to build up? It might be might be what we I don't know. Lose might be less than what we'd lose if we buy this property this property. Exactly.
078So, Okay. Board, how do we want to move forward? >> I I would say that we do not want the property. >> So, we do not move forward. >> I don't want I I don't I don't think we want >> Juval respons. >> I I agree not to move forward. >> Mal, >> let it go. Okay. >> Let it go. So, do we we >> we then go to the step where you bring the resolution back to the board for um >> rejection? >> Yes. Yeah. So, so we would ask our attorney to write the letter declining the site, make sure the board is okay with the language on that and then present that to the owners. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> One more thing before you leave. Oh, >> can
079you pre-check on that Opal property and see for Mr. Reagan on what she's offering? >> She wanted like 150,000 an acre for it. >> Oh, okay. >> Very expensive and >> Oh, okay. She wasn't helping us out. >> No, it was not a favor. >> Ah, too bad we did the favor, but that's all right. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Okay. We'll move on to item number three, 26-3647, review and tenative approval of the Neola policy 5517 anti-harassment by Miss Kder. Thank you, Miss Kder. I will give you a time frame. I'll let you have as much time as you need. I think I'm fine if you have it in front of you, the two policies. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Can we So, good afternoon board. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to present
080these two uh policies as well as good afternoon superintendent. These have actually come before you in a prior form. Uh the first one being the anti-harassment policy which is 5517. What happened is when it went to production at Niola actually eliminated some of the text. It was actually a problem that they had and the reviewer at Niola picked it up and realized it and they had to work through it again. So, the revised policy now includes the text that you originally approved, but we felt like it was important to bring it back to you so that you could see that what you actually approved was now going to be in production and approved as you wanted it. And those changes were made on pages two and three. Was that because they used AI to generate
081this and they didn't have a human looking at it? >> Do you know that? >> I don't know that. No, I know humans do review it. >> Can Can you find out? Because the state law now requires any uh legal document that that's being reviewed by AI to disclose it. So, I would like to know that. >> Okay. Well, I will check with them and let you know. >> Right. >> Mr. Did you >> I just there were some things and I know this is not part of what was revised but some some things that I thought should you should consider uh you know revising uh the the uh under definitions bullying a the first sentence says bullying rises to the level of unlawful harassment when one or more persons systematically and chronically doesn't have
082to be chronically I mean one incident can be bullying so I I I a single incident can be bullying So I think that's something that should be looked at and >> No, I don't I don't think that's correct. >> No, it it No, it is it under under the law it is correct. A bullying can be one incident if it's it's if it's severe enough. >> So I I was researching this too, but on Florida DOE, this is the exact >> Okay. >> This is the exact definition on Florida DOE because I question the same thing. >> Right. Okay. >> Um but it one incident of bullying is bullying. >> Yeah. and and then >> it can't be a one incident >> is defined as and then later on it says it's defined as an
083unwanted and repeated in my view it doesn't have to be repeated one in you know but if DOE says otherwise uh the other thing I would >> can you before you move forward um what does the what does DOE say >> do has DOE has exactly the same that we have here however I totally agree with Mr. Myers that it bullying can be one incident >> and we can make >> and we can change we can change it we can take the word chronically out. >> Can we make it more stringent? >> No, chronically you know andor sing I mean a single incident. I mean you can add language to it. Uh if someone's going to challenge whether or not that's bullying uh you know where there's been a serious incident. >> So you take
084out the word then repeated unwanted written verbal or physical behavior. Well, you could leave in chronic chronically, but also indicate that it could be a single. >> Yeah. Well, that you do that by it's defined as any unwanted written verbal blah blah blah. You just take out the word and repeated. >> Well, there's also at the very the first sentence too is what he's referring to. >> First sentence, but both of them >> the first line says chronically and then further on it says unwanted and repeated. >> Uh and and I think you should leave those terms in there. I think you should also include a single incident can be can constitute uh bullying and uh bullying doesn't have to be repeated to meet the definition of an act of bullying in my opinion. But
085uh >> would you describe a one-time incident so I can think about what you're saying a little bit better? >> A threat? >> No. No. >> Mr. from his >> I have to let me let me let me >> because I I always thought you know sexual harassment if if a guy says oh I I'd like to take you out and the woman said no would that be sexual harassment because he asked her out if she said no and he stopped I mean I'm just >> you know under this definition under that definition >> sometimes go ahead >> there's a boundary and and people cross a boundary and you say stop and they do now that to me if the person's changing their behavior that would not be a harassment. It would not knowing where
086that person's individual boundary is. So you stop they do it's done. If they don't it is if you know what I mean. So I can see the I the the repeated to me has value >> right. It it does. I'm just asking for >> give me a specific time. Well, incident that rises to be >> I think it all depends on how we define an incident. Is is an incident repeated statements made by one person to another? Uh we're going to look at it as one those those are separate statements made and that constitutes one incident. So is bullying it it's this is something that's happening one time. Uh but there there are several things that the person has made to show that he's bullying this other person. >> That's repeated. >> Okay. Well, it's
087one it's one incident though. >> It's one time. >> So, it's the it's the same person. It's it's the same person engaging multiple times and it's and it continues >> if you and it continues happening >> and that's repetitively that that's repeated. But I'm and I'm not I'm I think >> I'm just trying to understand. It depends how you define the word. Is >> that what you mean? Do you mean the same person? >> Say if if during if there's an exchange between two people one time uh >> you and I one time >> one time can that be bullying? >> Well, this says >> and I think I think it can be. >> Yeah. But this says systematically and chronically. So systematically means it it's more than one occasion >> and you're inflicting physical
088and physical hurt or psychological. So, >> so >> I mean I guess for onetime bullying would be like saying that shirt is really ugly and I wish you'd commit suicide one time saying it to somebody. Would you consider that bullying? >> Yeah. >> A threat only one time. They only said it one time. But the systematically is like a group of people attacking the same person or >> I'm not sure the conversation that we're having has any bearing because the way I understand this policy it is statute. We have copied statute. If you go down to the bottom if you scroll down to the bottom it refers to the statute I believe. So if this is statute that's been copied. I would just suggest that if we're if you want us to look into it
089and verify that it's statute that we table this, leave it the way it is now in our policy, >> we'll look into it. Make sure it's word for word Florida statute. If it's Florida statute, >> I would agree. >> I I don't think we should. >> So, I would agree. >> So, I want to address I want to address a concern with how our student protection policies may be functioning in practice. Um, I know we have the Neola policy 5517 we're discussing and then the 5517.01 in place. The 551701 is bullying and the 5517 is harassment. But we have to treat the harassment and the bullying as equal priorities >> simultaneously because what's happening is while we have both of them, we have to acknowledge that 5517 does not cover all forms of bullying for
090students experience which may be what you're talking about. It is limited to unlawful harassment under laws like title nine and title six um of the civil rights act of 1964. So that means if we're not consistently applying policy 551701 alongside 5517 as required under the Jeffrey Johnston Stand up for All Students Act, there is a real risk that some student situations are not being addressed appropriately or early enough, which is what you're trying to say right now with stopping it before it continues to >> to manifest. This is where accountability matters. So I think we need clarity on how is the staff being trained, how are incidents being classified, and whether early intervention, which council is what you're discussing, is actually happening across all schools. >> Because if there is no um if there's inconsist
091inconsistency in the application, then we're not fully protecting every student. And as a school board member, I am reached out consistently from parents about bullying. That's probably the number one chief complaint I get and that I'm involved in with bullying with their child. So bullying comes in many different stages and I think that's what council's alluding to the fact. >> Well, yeah, you said it much better than I did. I mean, I think that's the idea behind the policy is to prevent it from happening again. >> Yes. >> So, you could make an argument that bullying has to be pervasive, but if you're aware of an incident that could be borderline bullying or harassment, you want to nip it in the bud. So I think we have to rely on what the statute says but
092I I let let's look at that. >> So I think >> well a lot of is reporting too. >> Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that. So how are staff trained to distinguish between policy 5517 and 5517.01 in real time when incidents are reported. If a child reports immediately and because I sit on bullying committee, >> they're supposed to immediately start an investigation whether she goes to a teacher and and it's a big thing that when we're in bullying committee that we tell our teachers and our staffs and our social workers that come out to make sure that as soon as a child says this >> an an incident's happen, an investigation happening. >> My question is how are the staff trained to distinguish between the two? >> I don't think they have to. It's
093not their job. 557 your job is to bring >> and 5517.01 that's where we have to know because that that both of those together have to be involved or you or this can't work. Um and then >> that's up to a supervisor. >> And then do we have data showing how many incidents are classified under just the 15 the 5517 as well as if you could get that for me the 5517.01 because that makes a huge difference. So I think that we can um we can have Jill Jill >> come and present the data that you want because one would be um incessor under harassment, one would be under bullying just as a general blanket statement from my experience from your question between the two. I think when they're reported you the the procedure at
094the front is the same for the two and then it branches off into is it harassment or is it bullying. So are parents clearly informed which policy their child's situation falls under and why >> if it well yeah when we get to that point because that's part of that process of the investigation that parents have to be informed >> the um person that's doing the bullying and the victim both have to be informed it's in that process so we can bring that back to show you I >> think so what safeguards are in place also to ensure that cases not meeting a legal harassment threshold are still addressed promptly under that bullying policy. So all of these questions I feel like this is something that along with earlier at the workshop that we had spoken
095to you about with the uh campus and all the things I think this is another thing that's near and dear to my heart when it comes to that we could probably look at and analyze it a little differently in the approach and how we're doing it and what we're doing to safeguard and put protection in place for the kids. I also want to go I want to go back to changing changing the um chronically to the one time. I I take back what I said actually because I feel like we could put oursel in a really bad position if we do make that a one-time thing because little Johnny can say you're ugly and now an investigation is going on that he's bullying and he said it one time and he said he was sorry
096and now he's have you know in big trouble for bullying. So I think that that would set us up for even more problems by saying just one incident in this. So I definitely want to >> Well, the only thing that is I think you're right, but if it's severe enough, I'm just saying right and severe enough if if it's not severe like you're >> but wholehearted honestly I would hope our bullying committee that sits on it and looks at these would would really have enough common sense to say wait a minute >> that falls under >> right or harassment >> one time but it's bad enough that it's bullying or it's harassment or whatever like >> Yeah. So I think the main thing is like you said the balloon committee that districtwide standard that we're
097supposed to have are is that happening across the board or are schools inter interpreting these policies differently. So we need to make sure because I have seen that too as a school board member at this moment that it's a little bit all over the place depending on the situation. >> We do have in the code of conduct two separate uh items. One is >> among many. One is for bullying, >> one's for >> and one is for harassment. >> For harassment, >> but if we don't merge them together, >> it's not benefiting. >> They're different. >> We have to follow the the cessor definitions. U that's a requirement. So they these are specifically what we have to have in our policy in terms of wording, >> right? But we have to apply the 551701 alongside
098with 5517. >> They're just looking at disciplines on this and this is not specific in here with the policy number. Harassment, any threatening, insulting, or dehumanizing gesture, use of data or computer software or written, verbal, or physical conduct that places a student or school employee in reasonable fear of harm to his or her person or damage to his or her property has the effect of substantially interfering with a student's educational performance, opportunities, or benefits or and it goes on and on. We have a very specific discipline policy, first offense, second offense based on elementary and secondary. And the same thing is uh under bullying. And there it is intimidating behaviors that are repeated, intentional, and involve a power imbalance systematically and chronically inflicting physical hurt or psychological distress on one or more students or employees.
099And then it goes on to define it even further. So we have a code of conduct that we follow. We have now starting this current school year, we have the the matrix which tells everybody what is to occur with some flexibility in there based on grade levels. >> That's one other thing. Okay, Mr. Myers. >> Uh I I just also on page five, uh what's in bold there, uh where it says any teacher, administrator, coach, or other school authority who engages in sexual conduct with a student may be also guilty of a crime. Why why don't we have school district community including students? What if you have an 18-year-old student who uh you know rapes a 16-year-old girl? Why why would we not include students in that in that paragraph? I I don't disagree. >>
100Okay. So, we'll ask those questions. We'll check to see if this is Florida statute. Um, and we'll ask Jill to do a presentation of the practice of how this comes together with a bullying. I believe if I remember right on the form, it's called bullying/harassment form that's filled out. >> I just want to make sure. We don't we don't at the beginning determine whether it's bullying harassment. There's a complaint, we put it on the form, we investigate it, and then we branch off into is it is it harassment or is it bullying for schoolboard policy? >> The biggest problem is is getting teachers to realize that when a child comes to them and they say something, they automatically do the incident to get it investigated. A lot of times they tell the child have mom
101or dad go on the website and pull the thing and then the parent don't fill it out or the parent don't want to fill it out and then nobody knows and the investigation doesn't >> So Mrs. Bonszik if there's inconsistency in how these policies are applied is what I was saying then we're not fully protecting every student what you're saying and that's something that we need to fix because at the end of the day this isn't about policy language it's about whether a child feels safe walking into a school. the policies don't protect students. Consistent application does. So, we have to make sure. So, for me, there's a lot of things here that we probably >> we can have a a bullying committee all day long, but if we're not applying all of this in
102every school and we're not doing it consistently across the board and the kids at the end of the day need to feel safe. They need to feel safe. Just like you said, I think that's imperative. I think that as a school board member, our role is to make sure that the bullying is zero tolerate tolerance and that these children feel safe in our brick and mortar building. >> And during the committee, that's the biggest thing that is harped on is as soon as a child says something. Yes. >> The investigation must be opened >> no matter what. >> That's what's not happening. We get How many complaints do you get? I get a lot of complaints >> where where the the parents say, "Oh, the kids being bullied." Nothing's being investigated, nothing's done. The teacher
103doesn't want to take the report. And when a teacher does, the supervisors don't want to take action. That's somewhere in that chain. There's a failure. >> That's what needs to be addressed. We got to get the the the teachers to take the reports. We got to get the supervisors to go through with it and not put it in the circular file because they don't think it's warranted >> because I feel like >> there's nothing going in a circular file. >> They're investigating everything. >> Yeah. I feel like sometimes under the policy council, maybe this is sort of where you were going with too, under 5517 or 551701, whatever it is, I feel like if it doesn't meet that threshold, sometimes we tend to go back to, well, this is policy or like you said, this
104is DOE. This is what they say. And at the end of the day, when we're just doing that, it could be dismissed or delayed like you're saying. So, >> I'm comforted by what the form says, harassment/bullying. That means the a determination will will be will be made whether it's one or the other because I mean we want to argue about whether or not bullying is repeated or or one time there's no question that harassment one time is sufficient to be harassment. So if it belongs in the harassment camp what I'm saying is I just want it to be investigated and since you have a form that calls it both I'm I'm fine with that. I would like to also say that there's been several people that reported bullying to me and then when I did
105the investig or reached out investigation was already open and they were already you know so there are we are doing we are but we but definitely we could do more we could always do more >> yeah we just have to make sure that >> always room for improvement >> yeah our staff are expected to act of course when the behavior doesn't meet a legal threshold but it's still harmful and that's the thing you know it can all a lot of times I think that some of you hit it hit the nail on the head when you said a lot of times we look at it and we say well what does it fall under or if a teacher reports it and then it goes further but then it stops. You know we have to make
106sure that at the end of the day that the safety of that student whoever that's directly affecting that that sorry these are hazards on campus. >> All right, Mr. Johnson wants to chime in really quick or >> Yeah, because what we're dealing with is the perception that we're not addressing bullying. That every time one kid bumps into another or says, "Oh, you're stupid. It's bullying." Maybe it's not. But the perception is we're not addressing it. We're not taking care of it. That's a cultural issue within the school system that we need to change. So, how do you change it? same way we started to to to change the the the gangster mentality. You crack down on it. You become very hard on it. You take every little incident and report it and take an action.
107Maybe it doesn't warrant a suspension. Maybe it it it warrants something different. But if you let it go, it's going will still have that perception that there's a lot of bullying going on. I won't name the middle school that that I know people that won't go there. or they go outside the school district because it's known to for it bullying and nothing is done about it. >> So I think you're >> now that's a perception whether it's actually happening or not is not the reality but perception is reality. So we need to change the perception and we need to be able to nip this in the butt and control it and once we do that all of a sudden things will be a lot better. So absence of reported issues doesn't always mean absence of
108problems. >> So we just want to make sure that we're on top of everything. >> Miss Duval, did you >> Mark for bullying and harassment, the disciplines are out of school suspension from the get-go. It's not that it's not being addressed. They are taking action. I do feel that sometimes parents would like more than what they get. Um, sometimes some things get are labeled unfounded and parents don't like that. But the investigations do take place. >> But maybe it's not bullying. Maybe it falls into a lesser category where the out of school suspension may not be the right punishment. Maybe an inschool suspension or a note in a file or something different or loss of a privilege might be more appropriate. >> We have that for other things, but those two specifics, they're out of
109school because we don't tolerate it. But it's it's the perception in the public is it's rampid in the schools and maybe because they're not finding it >> well it's good that we're sitting here >> excuse me maybe because they're not finding it's bullying or harassment maybe it's another something completely different and there is something that they that could be assessed with and if that's explained properly to the parent of the child who's the victim maybe that would appease it. I don't know what the exact answer is, but the perception is there's rampid bullying going on and how do we get rid of that perception? We have to change the culture, >> Mr. Pender. >> So, I think what the point that you're talking about, Mr. Johnson and we have to connect here is that so
110in the practice of this someone reports that somebody bullied me that form that bullying and harassment form is started by a practice and there's investigation. If it's determined to be bullying then student code of conduct gives us the consequence for bullying. If it's determined to be harassment, it gives us the consequence. But if it's also determined to be neither, but it might have been a push and shove, then there's then they get those consequences in schoolboard policy, too. And I I and and so I just wanted I think that's what you're getting at is there's other something is happening based on our investigation with this, but it it may or may not be bullying or harassment. I mean, most of the time it probably is, but there are those times there's a whole another layer
111of the student code of conduct for other things. So maybe that's not being related to the parent of the victim. And if maybe if that's related to the parent of the victim, well, we we investigated. It's doesn't rise to the level of harassment, but it is a push and shove. And this is how the >> We can't tell that parent. >> Yeah. I was just going to say we're not as administrators, we were not allowed to >> tell the parent of the victim, >> right, >> what we did. We could tell them that appropriate discipline consequences have been applied and when you develop relationship with parents, >> they trust you to know that yes, something has been done and it has been dealt with. >> I I I think somehow >> I think it's a
112HIPPA law. That's why you can't discuss it. It's it's something that falls in HIPPA that you can't discuss what happened with a child to somebody else. And I think it's good we're having this conversation up here on this board because I think what Mr. Johnson is saying is referring to that social media, all the posts and different things that we see out there, there is a lot of hearsay about bullying and >> things go around. Yes. And so it continues to spread and I think this isn't about placing blame. It's about making sure that our systems are as strong and clear as they need to be. That's part of our role as a board. So, you know, I definitely don't think any of our administrators take any of it lightly. Everybody that I've encountered at
113all of our schools, um, it's very serious to them. So, I don't think that we have a problem when it comes to that. I think though that we do have a problem on being able to address and differentiate what's significantly important and what's not. And a lot of times, I think the clarity of going back to the law and the statutes that make that muddies the water some because I think what Mr. Johnson saying is sometimes it doesn't have to be something that's exactly um with the statute. It could be something minor, but that minor continues to prevail and it continues to lead to something bigger. And so what he's trying to say is that we need to nip it in the bud at the beginning before it becomes >> that too. But if if
114I the student says that Shannon was bullying Casey and it comes out that no, she wasn't. It was a push and shove. >> Yes, she was >> the parent because you're [ __ ] But so so if if in that case the parent of both students know who the other party is, you're not violating Hipper by in my mind by saying, "Hey, Casey was talked to. Casey got this kind of punishment or she was punished." Rather than just say, "Oh, she was dealt with." I I think it I think if we got a loop >> legally I I don't I don't disagree, Mr. Johnson, when it comes to what you're saying on a uh lay person level, I don't disagree. I think parents hate to hear, we can't tell you anything. It was just dealt with because
115me as a parent, when I hear that, okay, what' you really do? You probably didn't do anything. Is this is what you hear on social media that did they really deal with it or didn't they? So, if you don't guarantee them an outcome, you're left to wonder. And of course, that wonder at that time, they're the victim or they feel victimized. So, they feel like, did they really do anything? and they never know. So it does leave that question in their mind. So I understand how optics appears but at the end of the day legally we legally cannot go past what is the law and we cannot >> give these parents the affirmative action of the plan of what we did and tell them that because legally we would be violating. >> I don't know
116about that. I can see HIPPA coming into place if there was an IEP in place possibly. If there's no IEP or plan, I don't know if HIPPA would be violated. >> It isn't. It isn't HIPPA. It's fura. >> Furpa is what we're talking about. Not HIP. >> She mentioned HIPPA. That's why >> Yeah. No, it's not HIPPA. It's furpa. It's for educational record. >> Sorry, my my medical came out in me. >> So, it's quite all right. You know, >> so we're going to table this. So, we're going to table this and have Miss Colossa come back >> um with clarification on things and further discussion. Well, can I just I mean just in reading the statute uh the was it the was it Jeffrey Johnson uh they they link bullying and harassment and the
117reason why they do it is obvious because they are defining bullying as per pervasive more than one but then there's also harassment. So they're they're inextricably linked by statute >> and there's a reason because they want to make one >> I think technically the policy is right the way it's written but the the fallback is harassment if it's one incident. So because that's what the statute says. >> So we can just move forward >> with with that part. I mean I still think >> no we just need to 5517 and 5517.01 one is harassment one's bullying. And the reason that I've been saying from the beginning of this meeting that we need to treat harassment and bullying as equal priorities is exactly what council is trying to get at that it could be an isolated
118event or it could be multiple. But if you don't put it together, I I just I I think that mainly we have to train our staff to not wait for something to meet legal harassment thresholds. I think that's the biggest thing. And that when a child is being told something that's damaging in the first goound, usually there that same child is going to get that again and again repeated as we continue. So we just >> But that first time's going to be investigated. >> Yes. So we just need to make sure that all of our staff and everybody across the board, across the whole county, that we're all complying, we're all doing the exact same. >> So >> I'm not saying we're not. I'm just saying that that's one of the as a schoolboard member
119one of the main topics that I receive multiple emails numerous week after week concerning >> Miss Ker. Oh, my question is then are we going to move forward to a regular board agenda on this or is this going back to workshop? >> It's good. >> Okay, >> we're good with it. >> I just want to make sure I mean Rodriguez, are you good with AI and with Miss Colassa? Would this coming or coming before the board or you want them to bring it back and Miss Colossa go over? >> You want this to come to the board? >> This has been to the board once already >> and then but have the presentation by Jill on how >> we already approved it. >> Yes, you did. >> You did approve it. >> Well, yeah. It's
120just correct. It's correcting what was wrong with it. >> It's just correcting what page two and three. >> That's all information. Not that >> that copy. >> The scribble got it wrong. Right. Right. >> That was it. Just the page two information, not >> the scribble got it wrong. >> So, it's done. It's already done. >> Okay. We're just doing due dilig because the because you have that language that was inadvertently left out. Uh but as I looked at it, I just saw some things that I just wanted to raise. >> Okay. So, we're going to put this on the agenda then agenda. >> Next agenda for approval. >> It's just a correction because we already did it. >> Okay. We just wanted to be forthright and let you know that we're bringing it back.
121So, that's you approved it. >> Is it is it the same issue? >> Yes. >> With with the the next one. >> It's just a mistake that they found. >> Seen the graduation one as well. You're talking about the next policy 5460. >> The issue there when reviewed was >> um I need Wait a second before we go there. We we need to clarification. So item number three, we're going to move on and bring it before the board. It's already been approved. We're not having a workshop on it. Okay. And so now we're going to >> we'll have Jill work do a workshop on anti-bullying. And now we're going to move to item number four 26-3571 re review and tenative approval of Neova policy 5460 graduation requirements. >> Now you may go ahead, Miss Kitt.
122>> Okay. The reason this is being brought before you is on the first read um there were references to certificates of completion being issued to ESSE students >> and there were also some grammatical issues that you brought to our attention. So we went ahead and made those changes so that we're now in compliance with the new graduation requirements in this >> which are changing again. >> Okay. Well, for now we have to leave it what it is. >> As of those changes are made as of July of 2025. So, >> okay. Any discussions on this? >> Bring this to the board for a vote. That's it. That's what we're doing. Thank you. >> Thank you for fixing or making the corrections. >> All right. Are any further discussion on this? >> Okay. Mr. Myers, do
123you have any closing comments? >> No. I've said enough today. Board, do you >> Board, do you have any closing comments? >> I'm good. Okay. >> No. No. >> Okay. >> But just just just a little clarification. My my stepson did have issues with breathing and I we were up at 3:00 at at bayet point with him. He's still there. He had he has problems with congestive heart failure and diabetes which act ex excavated his I can't pronounce that word his circumstance. But he's stable now. That's good news. Thank you for being here after being up all night. >> All right. All right. And this Mr. Pender, do you have any Superintendent Vender? All right. This workshop is adjourned at 3:50 p.m.