OCPS | 2021-09-21 - School Board Work Session

001good afternoon everyone and welcome to the orange county school board's work session which has been scheduled for today for the purpose of discussing the following school board policies b school governance bbbg board elections bdc board officers be school board meetings bec executive sessions bedh public input at school board meetings and bie board members insurance liability the public will not have an opportunity to participate at this work session to provide public comment because this is not a regularly scheduled school board meeting and no action will be taken and there will be no pre-agenda period in which the public normally addresses the school on germain topics that are related to this work the board the public will have an opportunity to provide input at a future rural development workshop and subsequent school board meeting thank you so

002much for being with us this afternoon as a reminder face masks are required indoors and school board prop on all school board property which includes the board room and the lobby and board members are attending in person and telephonically one is telephonic so i'll take a quick roll call remember gallo president madam chair thank you member gallow member lopez good afternoon member covert good afternoon chair vice chair gould good afternoon member felder good afternoon member byrd good afternoon chair remember kester dental is not with us she should be joining us shortly and i will try to remember to acknowledge her for the benefit of the minutes when she arrives i want to remind the public and board members that we will not be engaging engaging in outside electronic or digital communication during the meeting so

003that we can focus 100 of our attention on the meeting itself and if you wish to contact us of course you're always welcome to reach out to us but you will not be receiving a response during the meeting to my fellow board members district staff when speaking please make sure you speak directly into the microphone and make sure it's turned on and with that we will begin with a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance and now the pledge i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right i want to recognize i think i'm going directly to our general counsel i do want to just make a quick comment

004i know our general counsel is going to mention this as well she's going to go over a timeline but for anybody who might be tuning in now or at a future point in time these are a series of school board governance policies that we have had in the process for quite some time and the timing of us discussing it today has no reflection on where we are in terms of public input it just has to do with trying to find the time to get to the normal business of of the school board in such a trying and challenging time mrsamball you're recognized thank you madam chair members of the board as a bit of background the seven policies the b policies and this is our first series of b policies have already come to work

005sessions on the following dates if you recall back on december 1st of 2020 miss fernandez started you off then we had another work session on february 16th and another one on march 23rd so this has been a long process normally this is not our policy adoption process it doesn't usually go through that many recitations and work sessions but these are your policies so this is something that you need to provide the guidance on and you need to make sure you're comfortable with this is not like an operational policy or things like that which is why this is a little bit unique so you have a number of policies for you and i think the best thing to do is potentially what we did before go through the red line so you can see the policy

006revisions that have already been made the items that have been highlighted in yellow i highlighted the distinction between the board policies because they're all in one continuous document but the new provisions that you had discussed back in march have been highlighted in yellow as we go through and i know it's been a while since we went through these so i'm not sure the best way to tackle them i know it's really hard to draft policies with all of us together in one room but it's a tedious process and i want to make sure that you all are comfortable with what they are so i would just recommend we start with board policy b go through it i can read it for you or you can read it on your own whatever the pleasure is i

007have a suggestion why don't we take maybe we take one page at a time sure okay and just you can go through it but then because i know i've got a couple of things on each page and i don't want us to get too far off so board members everybody comfortable reading this or do you want miss envelope to read it to us yes i think most of us have read it so maybe if we just go to the points that people want to clarify okay all right so on the first page we'll start yes the first title is global government's commitment and this is generally the overview it is most of the changes are to formatting and to terminology so it's consistent with our other policies these policies have not been revised there was

008a big policy revision in 2008 and so this is i'm taking out some of the the noise in between so we usually had school board governance you know in this section every single time in between each section and that just wasn't didn't seem to be as prudent anymore governance style is your next one this is double wear i'm sorry i'm sorry it's okay if we could stop with the first page so a couple of the little things and these are more stylistic but the first sentence the purpose of the school board of orange county on behalf of the people of orange county is to see to it that i know the is to see to it is i don't know it's kind of a folksy colloquial i don't know and it just doesn't sound like

009the professional terminology that this board would typically use so i don't i don't want us to get necessarily into wordsmithing but if we can all agree that we should refine that language so it's not to see to it and sure ensure would be a much better word and then i also will say it again every time there's an shore and sure assure we know we're always in shore absolutely the other the other observation when i got down to two i started to fill in it says that the board holds itself accountable to the citizens of orange county by ensuring that all actions it takes is consistent with the board's policies well i was i do this i jump ahead sometimes but i was thinking it also should be we should make sure that our policies

010are consistent with our strategic plan our mission vision data but then i see in three that we've covered that but again it's just a wording it's just the way it's worded but i think we could refine that wording a little bit and make it a little crisper if the board's okay rather than me read suggestions perhaps if it's all right maybe miss empel and i could talk about this before it comes back to world development and then do you pass it out to board members or how do you want to i will just like i do before i will send it to you ahead of time this version was sent to you late last night because i wanted to make sure i re-watched and checked my notes from our march meeting but i will send

011it to you ahead of time if there's any other perfect individual tweaks that you have before because once we publish it for our world development workshop we can't make any more substantive changes so you'll excuse me as we're going through here i will make myself some little notes like it says refine i'll do that just so that i know that's something that we need to take a look at okay and have we gotten to e under governance style so when you did governance style those are the things that you the discussion before just to make it more proactive instead of reactive and so e says proactivity rather than reactivity but we can do whatever i'm sorry i'm sorry i apologize it's board job description no it's governance style it's under governance style it's 2 e

0122 e and the only concern i have there this is where we're going to monitor our progress and okay and it does say that the board may waive this requirement by a motion and a vote and i'm i think we should be able to waive it i'm not sure that it needs to take a formal motion and vote do i do consensus oh sorry i don't want board members in a in a crisis situation like in the middle of a pandemic to be concerned about having a vote of waiving this provision so i thought a less formal process but a discussion by the board maybe it's direction maybe it's consensus but i just didn't think it needed to take an action item of a vote okay and back to you ms symbol moving back board

013job description any changes in there that was basically technical changes chairs roll all right i know i did this last time we had a little bit of concern about the chairs role and we've made some changes number two is the sure needs to be insured but that the board discusses only those issues which according to board policy clearly belong to the board not the superintendent i can try i can't ensure and frankly there are times when the board discusses things that are in the purview of the superintendent that we've delegated to the superintendent but when we're here at the board table we have a lot of conversations about not a lot but we have conversations about operational issues that come to our attention we have it as a board i don't think that we overstep

014but if i'm supposed to assure or ensure that we never do this it's not something even if i didn't if i thought we were in the wrong area if the majority of the board wants to do that i don't there's no gag there's nothing i can do so i felt a little uncomfortable with the absoluteness of that generally yeah generally instead of clearly again it is it's my responsibility just why can't you just say just belongs to him say what he says that are clearly a gentleman why can't you just say belongs to the four to the side well then it wouldn't be the cherished role and maybe it oh i actually generally could go before discussions ensure that the board generally discusses only okay and keep clearly no i'd like to believe that i

015could ensure that our meetings are always efficient timely and orderly we've done a pretty good job lately but again it comes down to i don't know endeavor ensure that board meeting deliberation is general i think endeavor is a better word than insurance here's my point if board members and this i'm not talking about this board but if board members don't want to operate efficiently the chair doesn't have i have no authority over my fellow board members and i shouldn't have authority over my fellow board members i'm here you know from a parliamentary purpose but not to stifle if the board wants to i think it is a board i think this should be a board goal but i just don't think it's for me to enforce does that make sense so do you want to

016change all those to endeavor to ensure or just endeavor okay yeah and it would be the same thing endeavor or guide endeavor to that ensure yes okay yeah okay let me change that here too okay endeavor to ensure that the board generally or that generally the board discusses only those issues which according to board policy generally belong to the board so generally discusses that generally needs to be moved dramatically that's incorrect so go back to generally yeah yes teacher no i love english teachers i'm glad we have an english teacher we have two of them and then one other observation about this is a really really difficult way to wordsmith a document and it does lead me to wonder if there wouldn't be appropriate for us to reconvene a policy subcommittee just for the purpose

017of this tedious work but that's for that's for the board's consideration of future time we'll try to weight our way through this but i got i become more sensitive about words and we are discussing subcommittees below as well yes okay okay so we okay yeah moving forward this is where we said at the chair's absence you had already discussed all of that moving on to board established advisory committees so this i have a little note in the side there i was directed to shorten it for clarity so you're asking an attorney to shorten a policy so i did the best i could it is kind of redundant but i think the discussion of the board before was to make sure that you had some clearly defined requirements for your board established advisory committees so i

018created headings for each of them this first one is creation of board established advisory committees you would create them by resolution you would include the duration the initial advisory committee members all of those things section two is recommendations saying specifically that they're not binding but it is definitely something that you will consider that's why their advisory in nature if there's a conflict between the provisions of this policy and other policy or within any board established advisory committee bylaws the provision of this policy governs and then general principles and what i tried to do is take what was already in there but it may also be redundant but is it easier for you to see the non-redline version or is it are you still okay with the underlying the strikethrough okay i'll be happy to read

019it for you if you'd like but i think i have one comment on this it says that the board will appoint the initial advisory committee members i think we might have discussed this last time the only concern that i have about initial is again i'm going to always look at what could possibly go wrong so we appoint a group of people and they decide to agree appoint other people so we're not clear we point the initial ones who's appointing anyone after that and i think that basically anybody that gets added to a committee that we create we ought to what's the word ratify or ratify yeah right yeah or we could have a committee that just doesn't reflect i think down here you have a i thought you had a provision for maybe not maybe

020that's in the stuff that was taken out so are you saying for subsection one there to admit we should appoint initial advisory committee members and ratify any proposed additions to the committee or substitutions at a minimum i mean i think it's tedious if every time board members have to come up with who's going to replace it i think if the superintendent or her staff or the committee itself has suggestions that'd be fine i just think at the end of the day it should come back to the board you could end up with a board entirely different than what you started out with that doesn't reflect our community at all so you want to require the school board ratify or write or reappoint or ratify because who would then be appointing huh well my thinking is

021it depending on the committee and how it's set up it might be set up that the superintendent or her cabinet might make recommendations it might be set up that the subcommittee itself could bring forward recommendations i'm fine with either of those i just think they need to come back to the board i think approve approve might be a better word approve okay union language on ratification okay okay did you push it look like you push a button but it's not showing up are you okay that's not what it's going to say i'm going to use capital letters so i know what i want to go back on wordsmith okay so moving forward down there we i think everything else was pretty self-explanatory there weren't a lot there wasn't a lot of discussion on that and

022then the march meeting there may have been more in february the board subcommittee struck board subcommittees that's something that you did all discuss nothing new from our last since our last march discussion don't let me pause so you can take a look at those okay to scroll up the language in yellow was based on a comment you had at your march 23rd meeting only members who have been appointed to a particular board subcommittee may vote on an item before the board subcommittee and bring such an item as a recommendation back to the board for subsequent action you didn't want everybody who wasn't appointed to the subcommittee to be able to vote is that okay that capture your thoughts i have a question yes i'm sorry okay i'm just trying to understand some things okay so

023now okay i agree with that but once they bring it break the board subcommittee brings it back to the board we then do have the right to vote right that's why okay i'm sorry just want to make sure i'm clear what we want to avoid is say you have a subcommittee that consists of three maybe board members that come every meeting and then one meeting a board member comes there hasn't been any meetings and they want to vote and they haven't been we want this to be as open to as many board members as possible but we do want to make sure there's some consistency in the process so a little bit of skin in the game so before your policy you had specifically legislative communication budget and policy the language that you had before

024there i thought we'd put that in there it was up farther right there we go to address legislative and budget issues that shall have a board because you are very clear about how you wanted to make sure that those two are specifically established i don't know if you want to add may have a policy committee but to me you're already allowed to do that under this policy so you good all right madam chair hang on hang on what's up dr jengas yeah it just occurred to me on that number six that's highlighted and it may be board members who have a better memory than me i it used to be that we specifically said subcommittees were not taking votes they were coming to a consensus to bring it to the board for a vote that

025you yeah you bring a recommendation by consensus if there were no there were supposed to be no formal votes in sub-committees but that's at the board's discretion at this point okay let's open that up for conversation because we just need to change this language remember gold so until something really comes to this table and is fully vetted and presented i don't i don't think there is what we would call a final vote on anything though even i do like the language of consensus better so it's not confusing for the public so that if they're they do listen in on a subcommittee meeting and there is an agreement on something that's coming before the board it's not a done deal there ever until it comes on to our agenda and to the table can i ask

026you a follow-up question that so based on that do you think that the language should still include that unless you're on the subcommittee that you shouldn't be part of the consensus or is that anybody who shows up at that meeting and that's just because i completely understand what you're saying and i think it's a great idea not to have a vote you don't want to have a vote of the subcommittee that says this and the board does something else after further discussion i'm going to wait for a response from vice chair and then go to member covert on the same issue so i honestly don't think it matters because until it comes to this table and we may have some new bit of information from the time that we built consensus or took a vote

027in a subcommittee to the time it comes to the table that completely changes what somebody thought when they were or or against so to me it doesn't it doesn't have bearing on the outcome of the process so i am good either way with that language as long as the buck stops at this table in a regular board meeting okay remember covert so a good example of this would be the budget committee which is has prescribed members so in the past while i have not i did not sit on the budget subcommittee i would attend so no i wasn't part of the consensus there but could attend i think this language works same with member gold okay member burn your thoughts well that kind of clarified it a little bit more for me i was just

028wondering are we are you are we concerned about other board members or are we concerned about other people from the community being at these meetings either one is that what i think clarify if you couldn't assemble i think when we're talking about board subcommittees we're talking about a subcommittee of the board these are only board members these aren't our advisory committees right and there since there isn't usually a vote you're going to take the public doesn't usually they have an opportunity to attend but not necessarily an opportunity to participate and provide comment so the budget committee is that an advisory committee or is that a board subcommittee i think that one is a little bit of both because i think the budget committee is that in waiting for mr pomerani i think is that part

029of the cta bargaining agreement so that's kind of a hybrid if that makes sense and i think we might have discussed this the last time that we didn't really have a good place for that there's nothing to keep board members from serving on an advisory committee so does it since it's not a subcommittee that is only made up of board members does that make it an advisory committee no it doesn't because we don't get to decide who serves on it vice chair and then oh on that one i think there is mutual agreement on the representation if i'm dusting the cobwebs off of my brain right now but i believe there is you know that we say there's two board members and two from the each union or whatever it is so i think maybe

030when there is a prescribed maybe the language change here is when there is a prescribed structure to a subcommittee so do you want mad that's when it matters right otherwise i mean our communications committee our legislative committee any policy committee that we would have i would think we would want all board members to have input and skin in the game in those but when we have a prescribed committee such as the budget committee that involves other partner entities that's when it's a little different okay so it sounds like you need almost another section or go ahead dr jenkins i'm just going to add one clarification so the anomaly of that budget committee and contractual language should be going away it was one of the items that the cta asked to remove and so that anomaly

031will actually go away that'll make for a much cleaner delineation oh yeah well collected bargain-wise it will it will probably be going away because we won't oppose it then we'll have to revise this policy unless miss ambal you could come up with some proposed language that and incorporates what vice chair just mentioned yep as i think that that makes sense to me and it might not always hold out hope for the future bit elaborative instead of remember covert your button is still pushed that's not okay i didn't think it was on purpose all right miss sample okay so moving down next one is the annual agenda planning this you didn't have any i think we actually selected on this language back in february i have one comment yes and i just made this misunderstanding it's

032under 2b it says the planning cycle will start with the joint development of the strategic plan with the superintendent there's a period after superintendent i think maybe it's a yeah i think anyway that's when i think of the development of the strategic plan i think of what we did when we when five new board members came on so when i read this it suggested to me that we were going to develop a strategic plan each year so i thought that maybe we needed to say the development or update or i don't know but i'm just got confused about okay you're all right with that dr jenkins okay it could be the review comma development the joint review comma development or update and that gives us three different possibilities for what we might because we might

033not be technically updating just be providing data okay all right moving down i don't think you had any more changes in there this is the board the section entitled board members code of conduct those are primarily can we change business like to professional on one this goes back to my happy to glad but i mean business like isn't always yes yeah business like could be a lot of things all right moving down i have one i'm so sorry that's okay that's why we're here thank you okay two a roman numeral two okay although all board members are obligated to register differences i think and encouraged might be better than obligated individual members may direct their differences of opinion in a respectful manner i think they should they shall rather than may you know i mean

034and then it goes on to say in a respectful manner which would not undermine a decision of the board i would change it slightly to say to avoid undermining but that's a happy to glad but the shell to the made a shell i think is some material i'm sorry one more time in in a respectful manner which would avoid undermining in a respectful manner to avoid undermining a decision of the board majority i think it's i think this by the way is really important and i was glad to see this i wish we'd had this at the county in the worst way so it is it's it's good stuff i just think that mainly that it shouldn't just be a may board members should not do that okay any other changes i do yes i

035don't i don't want to be here all day either i'm so sorry b roman numer d it says board members shall not be deemed to be in violation of working no hang on where's this next sentence provided however such issue must be brought to the attention of the superintendent so that appropriate staff members may respond so we have constituent relations a constituent emails us about a problem at the school what we typically do right now under the direction of the superintendent is we let the area superintendent know about it and have them resolve it this would suggest that we need to bring all of them to the superintendent and then she needs to direct the appropriate staff so at this point the superintendent has kind of dr jenkins we're right on this right that you

036would prefer for us to let the area superintendent know we can copy you but i don't think you want us sending all of them to you and you having to send all of them on so i was going to suggest that we say brought to the attention of the superintendent or the appropriate cap cabinet member the so that they so that the appropriate staff members may respond or and or or i don't know that's up to the doctor to dr jenkins do you want to be copied on all of them or do you want us and okay oh that's good to know i've never quite known i didn't know if i felt like i was i mean they bring them together it's the knowledge save a step because they bring them to me anyway okay

037okay wait go ahead i want to get some clarification oh okay and d yes a lot okay so let me just make sure i'm understanding no board member may become become directly involved in solving parent or citizen complaint at the staff level provided however board members shall not be deemed to be in violation of this provision of working with an issue brought to the board member by their constituents so let me just be clear so if there's a concern with members of our constituency and they tell us as a board member this particular policy is this stating that we can respond to it we won't be in violation of the provision if we respond to it second half okay it's long and let me see such issues must be brought to the ten okay after

038we bring it to the superintendent and the proper cabinet member the appropriate cabinet member superintendent could be area superintendent or okay or deputy superintendent or chief of staff okay just want to be clear thanks but just for if i share thank you okay the only clarification there is that at that point we brought it to their attention so that they can resolve it so it's not just a matter of i brought it to harold border because of the high school so i brought it to his attention but now i'm going to intervene and i'm going to fix the problem so you have to get away no no no i'm not trying to fix the problem but i do want to have the ability to ex identify the problem and give it to the appropriate cabinet

039person which would be our area superintendent if i can pass it on our deputy superintendent dr vazquez and of course dr jenkins who is our superintendent because sometimes they may not get it you know until somebody tells me or tell somebody on the board and then we can let it let them know but i just want to make sure we have that opportunity absolutely to do that okay absolutely thank you yeah absolutely so there are times we all break this policy the way that it is written and bus stops and how do i pay my cafeteria bill would be two that come to mind because i don't send that through the cabinet people i send it directly to the resource that they need so that that's what i do i'm i'm going to tell you

040okay so to clear for clarification do you send it to roberto or who do you send it no i either go to bill one or even direct them directly to the website so that they can put in the information to get their address so that they know where their bus stop is so i think there are some simple housekeeping things that we may want to clarify that if it takes the resource of someone to intervene or if it's just getting the constituent connected to that resource i know we're in the weeds there but and this is about a complaint so it's not i need information where's my bus stop this is a complaint well i don't like where that bus stop is again there's yeah mr winn has the data to back that up and

041it's going to get to him so dr jenkins yes so i would remember google i would still prefer that it go through mr pacheco because mr wynn is going to then circle around and bring it back to him anyway and so it'll save time if you just stick with the cabinet level okay thank you but but everyone agrees that if it's information that is available on our website that we should be directing them to where to get those that information rather than sending them to roberto for roberto remember gold i mean sorry member coburn and the member caster denim all right so i just want to clarify because this is this is going to mean an enormous amount of additional email going through the superintendent's box might i suggest the way the last line is

042written that the superintendent or designee because most of the time when there is an issue at one of my schools i do i go to the area superintendent or cabinet member but i don't copy the superintendent because i know that they will resolve the problem so if everything according to the way the policy is written here superintendent would have to be copied on dr jenkins i'm okay with that member covert because what you don't realize is that the staff member's copying me on it anyway just saves a step instead of the and no leave it leave the end okay absolutely remember castor dental thank you ma'am chair i again think that there will be a lot more emails there are some issues that we are actually able to explain or solve without necessarily involving everybody

043and so that remember that part where it says the first line no member may become directly involved in solving sometimes we don't need are we just trying to not confuse or or have the board member interact with a staff member like we're not directing the staff member is that what we're trying to accomplish dr jenkins yeah that is part of it creates mass confusion if staff members at a second and third tier are taking direction from eight different board members so it's to make us more efficient and timely we can get the work done if it's narrowed into a direct chain what happened so let me give you a prime example a couple of years ago someone was trying to get something done through communication department she just went straight down there to the graphic

044arts people and asked him get this created for me didn't stop there because that individual had to talk to his supervisor who talked to his supervisor who finally got to scott it could have been done in the reverse if she had gone to scott instead it would have easily been done when you talk to lower level staff people they're going to go up the chain trying to get authority in most instances to solve it's it's really much more efficient if you start it at the top with the cabinet level okay so if we are able to solve it on our own without involving staff then we don't have to necessarily copy everybody lovely lovely okay okay so if you can solve it on your own without talking to staff yes okay i was just gonna

045opine for a minute that in orange county this was what dr jenkins is concerned about was a huge problem and even though it was in our county charter adopted by the citizens this non-interference with staff clause we constantly had issues with one board member or another thinking that their district was kind of like they were like chief over their district and they would call staff and they would want this pothole fixed or that issue and it was tough on staff because every year our senior staff had to come up for reappointment so they wanted to please the board member but making sure that we equitably used our resources and that there wasn't political favoritism and anyway so i just was you know it wasn't every board member but some of them just felt that was

046kind of their job to grease the wheels for this person or that person so i was thrilled to see this in place and to see how well everybody was adhering to it but but that clarification member caster dental was really important i haven't been in a position where i could solve a problem without without the help of the cabinet members but other than here's how to find the information for yourself member byrd thank you on on what karen castro dental was just saying sorry with no board member maybe become directly involved i'm still feeling like if if we can't like she just said and like we just said if we can do it ourselves we can become involved in solving a parent or citizen complaint oh but not at the staff level that's what we're

047saying so it's really not it's it's we can solve it but not direct the staff okay it's a little a little bit confusing there but i also i think something about the wording of this and the red lines is still not flowing for me i don't know if it's because it says provided however blah blah blah blah and then provided however blah blah blah it almost feels like it just keeps going and keeps going like i don't know if would you like separate sentences yeah it sounds like it's just very kind of repetitive i don't know if maybe there's some way it could be a little more concise so miss empal this goes to wordsmithing and editing so bring us back a version that after you've taken all this input that's maybe a little more

048concise great okay excellent got it okay so moving on down further those are just grammatical and capitalization changes next section is process for addressing scor board member violations those are just minor pausing for input no okay next we did take out the per procurement in purchasing because it was redundant as you recall yep go back to the please on page 12 policy the board is committed to faithful okay something about violation i mean let me i need that explain what let me see okay process for advance addressing board member violations the board is committed to faithful compliance with the provisions of the board's policy in the event oh my god yeah that's better because my glasses okay in the event of members willful and continuing violation of the policy the ball was seeking remedy by

049the following process okay give me an example of a violation of a board member's violation what are you talking about does anybody know dr jenkins yeah so if you've observed some other board meetings it could be an instance of the board's concerns say that again if i do what if i'm sorry scratch that part i shouldn't have said that so it so sometimes when you observe other board meetings you've not observed it here but if you've observed other board meetings let's say there is a specific policy around professional behavior and there's a board member who repeatedly is acting out inappropriately and another board not ours that i've never seen that yeah so if there if there's a policy that governs behavior and one board member refuses a better example is if we say you know

050what if there's an issue and a problem solving issue you give that to the superintendent and staff rather than trying to save it trying to solve it and a board member came repeatedly to the table and said there's an issue here here and here i'd like to see these board these bus stops move to here here and here it's below the line it's outside of what your policy says they should be doing and then they do it repeatedly okay okay refusing to follow the guidance in the policy then here's what the board's remedy could be for that board member who refuses to follow the board's policies so it's just like generally speaking like when we put policy in place whatever policy any policy yeah and you have a board member who continuously disregards disregards or

051violates it okay okay but we haven't had that here right okay all right please i was going to say not in a long time okay thank you not since i've been here but nine years no one's sitting here not i didn't think so but i can't i can remember back in the day okay okay moving on you have officially hit your halfway mark so there we go we had just so you know we had board policy bbbg and it was titled board elections then we have policy bdg which is called titled board officers this is an effort to put them all into one because there's in my opinion there's really no need to have a policy that has two or three sentences in it so and to me it's also transparent for the public so

052they know to go one place so the recommendation is to combine bbbg into bdc and then repeal bbbg does that make sense okay a lot of b's sorry and another recommendation just get rid of all these letters but anyways that's all what that's our next b set of b policies because you have a policy that requires you to follow those so anyway this is the just the membership of the board just clean it up a little bit so it looks a little bit nicer the language in subsection six which down below we have policy bie which is also being recommended to be incorporated into policy bdc just that section there six that policy bie was very very short and so now we're going to effectively take your board your board officers section and put in

053the things that are relative to the board officers that make sense can i ask you i'm a little no i don't i'm not sure if we got here or not it's item four under be board meetings are we there yet no okay thank you almost okay so i'll move down for down further the next section is organization of officers that talks about the chair that talks about the vice chair and we this is a wave thing we figured before in the event that the chair is absent or not able to fulfill their role we actually move that up into the policy or the before that so that was there wasn't anything that was discussed even the last one now we're moving on to board policy be which is school board meetings so under four yes

054it says that the copycat agenda for regular media shall be made available at least seven days prior to the scheduled meeting date to the public or other parties who have expressed a desire for such copy of the agenda a little concerned about that language and the reason being that we sometimes had people who wanted us to remember to send them the agenda for different meetings on different subjects and it was more than staff could keep up with trying to keep track of that so i just think that this part about who have expressed a desire i think we post stuff if people want the agenda i think it's a little outdated so i would prefer us not feel like we have to send it to people who have expressed a copy and i think some

055of these were like you said before we had the electronic on the website i mean there was a time even when i was here before in 2012 2013 where we would print staff would print out the copies of the board agenda and all supporting documentation we would actually drive it because i've drive i've dropped off some materials at houses before board members so now it's all electronic so this is a little so i would put a period after public or other parties i'm not sure who the other parties are that aren't public but that might be but i think we can just get rid of the last part of that sentence at this point except for this special meeting yeah oh no no all i'm saying is for the seven days prior to the scheduled

056meeting date to the public or other parties period and not the rest of that sentence yeah i would just say to the public period rather than just giving we're having a we have a phone a friend we have a statutory check just in case okay yes john so our agenda process is governed by 125 12525 florida statutes it says an agenda shall be prepared by the agency in the time to ensure a copy of the agenda may be received at least seven days before the event by any person in the state who requests a copy and who pays the reasonable cost of a copy so there is still that provision of statute where they could say i want a paper copy of it and we would have to provide it okay thanks john it's always

057good to know i think the statute is having not caused technology but thank you we need to leave it in there thank you john okay i mean that sincerely but we should still post it i mean we can add yes you know these yeah we know that we post them on the advice so should we match the language that says to anyone in the state there to express the wow public and other parties already invite some so but it could be somebody from georgia right now or texas or wisconsin or and if they do a public records request we would charge them the appropriate fee and mail it to them so you want to just include other parties in the state who have maybe well match what the statute says on that particular segment of

058the sentence you want to read that to us again you could do that would work too that was a good catch guys thank you okay madam chair i think i think your point is well taken though we should at least include that it's it's available digitally and then if and then if requested it can be provided what are you doing editing on the on the yes either but but i need switching back and forth is fun there we go okay yeah the most will be fast but we're good thank you appreciate it all right moving on oh and then end it there yes yeah and then you wanted to add a copies of the jennifer special meaning okay you want to make copy shall be or copies how about just agendas posted visually to our

059website shelby robbie yes to the district website yes districts website the website yes okay all right i don't think we had any we did no go ahead i was gonna go on to six do you want to do something about it no six under quorum absent an executive order other order issued from the governor remember the governor actually suspended the in-person quorum requirement so we added that in there just in case that should occur moving down no yes okay wanna go back okay what would you like to go back to is that statutory language what's that the executive order absent an executive order no we did that because there was actually an executive order that specifically held that we did not have to have in-person quorum requirements and that might be applicable to our most

060recent situation but it was added as a you know there might be something that says we don't have to have an in-person quorum but we can take it out if you would like i'm just wondering if it should be reworded just starting with no perhaps well right i mean we need to account for the ability to have virtual if allowed that's why we said executive order or other order i don't know if there would be anyone beside the governor perhaps the d.o.e directed state allowed state changes i don't know it could be legislatively authorized in the next session so and it could not be it could not maybe it's not an order maybe it's something else yeah right yeah unless permitted by law there we go there you go perfect does that work thank you

061john off my phone a friend oh that was john yeah okay i was going to say that was awfully succinct oh no no john i actually meant for amy i it was it would be very succinct for me that's why i was kind of surprised she came up with it so madam chaired yes so i'd like to make sure mr palmerini saying by law is the only authority under which the board could have digital meetings can we can we authorize i was going to say unless otherwise authorized but i want to know if it's only by law so i think the phrase by law will take care of it because if it's an executive order especially if it's issued under the governor's emergency power that has to force an effect of law and rules would

062have the force and effect of law too if they passed an administrative code rule that did the same thing so i think that phrase that phrase would cover it okay so i have a question yes vice chair say half of the board got coveted and was under quarantine or was exposed and was under quarantine but we had a board meeting come up and we don't have the majority present what happens we don't have a meeting you can have a meeting but you would not be able to take any official action so if you're going to like adopt minutes or approve contracts you would have to wait till there's a quorum physically present to do so there would be no circumstance where the board could make a temporary rule for that meeting no because the in

063person the physical quorum requirements have not changed even though there's language that you know sometimes allows advisory committees to meet virtually the in-person quorum requirement has not changed yet that needs to go on our legislative platform and it should be yeah i understand it's on the legislative platform for some of the other districts already so that does need to go yeah so miss member felter thank you i just want to make be clear on that so if in the event as board member google shared if the half of the board got covered or some vicious disease we couldn't come in then we could not transact any business that required votes we could still meet yes but we anything voting on this that we could not trans okay i think it's that works yeah okay thank

064you right and by statute you're only required to have one board meeting a month we just happen to have two and most other districts happen to have two oh okay so a lot of there are some boards that meet once a month i'm not recommending that's not good but it's like why we have one in december and one in usually july so ms envelope we can go to number 10 yes conduct at meeting yes the public shall be informed that it's unlawful to knowingly disrupt or interfere with a board meeting i always notify the board of the protocols they're not policies but the protocols for behavior in the meeting i don't announce that it's unlawful i would prefer most of the time not to start with that tone at a meeting but it occurs to

065me that if we're going to keep this language we should have something on some way of notifying people if this language is going to be here whether that's a handout or something i don't know but it does say the bor the public shall be informed it is it is a misdemeanor right so we could add that to the bottom of our meeting notice perhaps that could be because if we make it a speaker's card issue which we could do that as well a lot of people come and don't speak but while i can understand that there would be sometimes when that might seem helpful i think most of the time it's very off-putting and we try very hard in most of our meetings to make sure the public knows that we welcome being here we

066give them an outlet to express themselves and i found that works pretty well and this approach i don't think would so let's find another way to do that and i could also add it to the you could we could add language to your script at the bottom so then the event that you needed it you had it in the event that i needed it yes okay yes exactly madam chair you weren't saying to take the language out here though were you no i'm saying i think we should keep the language but we're not doing this right now we're not informing them where can we and i would prefer to not be obligated to start every meeting with that information but i want us to comply and that way by having this also in the event

067that i need to publicly inform them it's also consistent with their policy i agree with keeping it in about would you like it on the signs that are posted out that would be that's not a bad idea yeah because amy was saying on our meeting notice but a lot of people don't necessarily see that so just work on having it we'll work on something procedurally and i think a lot of people show up that have never read the agenda and we could actually say that's not but you know what that's not our responsibility to make sure everybody reads it's our responsibility just to comply with the policy okay yes i have a question i'm sorry so i remember cast her down thank you madam chair does this policy since it's written in this conduct at

068meetings does it also apply to the public input period is that considered a meeting yes okay good it might also need to be included in just that public input area as well because people might see it separate because these are separate policies that you're advising so you're saying copy the conduct copy this paragraph the other thing that i added here too is we have board policy kfa which actually is titled i think public conduct at school board functions or on school board property i don't i'd have to back and look at the policy but we have that and that language is already the same conducted meeting is already in there there's a whole provision about disruptions of meetings we're going to have staff is already starting to look at that to bring you some proposed

069revisions to tighten that up a little bit and to me that's where you would probably recommend that we add in actual code of civility into the policy even though it's referenced a lot but we can actually add it into board policy kfa there as well okay i have a follow-up question i know that guns are not allowed on school campuses i know they're not allowed in this room are they allowed in our parking garage here i don't think so i think i think our policy specifically prohibits them hang on a second though statutorily i don't think you're allowed to you can as long as you put it in policy that you specifically prohibit it really john i believe it's in job would you share with me that statute yes and maybe that's is that different

070for counties i mean we literally had to allow people with guns come into our building and they could come any place except for a meeting now you come up to my office with a gun i mean if they had a license to carry we chaperoned them but we couldn't stop them wow i mean i'm glad i think it's how it should be i just when that when that bill came out whenever that wasn't 20 12 was i don't know you know what it was it was right after gabby gifford had been shot so devastatingly the little girl died it was right after it was that same session we still haven't addressed karen's questions back to remember i'm so sorry remember no it's okay because it does raise questions and does does it matter if it's

071a concealed weapon like a licensed concealed weapon are they allowed to have that so there are exceptions in the policy and i'm going to wait till john pulls it up but as i recall there's exceptions in the policy that specifically are for law enforcement they're permitted to carry and the concealed weapons i don't think or other weapons tasers knives just so i'm clear what we're waiting are we waiting for john to look up the policy or the statute okay thank you jenkins and we'll come back to you membercast you have it thank you remember you can go on we'll he'll not when we have it sorry thank you remember gallo i'm putting you in the queue i've got two three speakers ahead of you but thank you for chiming in anything else remember castor nano

072while we're waiting for that okay remember lopez so on the on the conduct a meeting the 14 so is that include the threats to other individuals and threats to us because i think that you know it's not fair for for our constituents to come here and not feel safety because if other people is just threatening them because they don't think the same way they are thinking that's you know and they are talking about the first amendment when they are not following it at all what are we gonna do with that because i don't think that the person who was showing and i don't know if i can say this but showing the black flag you know in the middle that person needs to be out immediately i don't have to feel unsafe so we have

073down in board policy bedh which is republican put a public comment there are some comments that have been added that would address that if you want to wait till we get there or if you want to see what that says so we can include that in bda it's in bedh i think we're still on be so i think if i can clarify i think the purpose of this being here because it kind of crosses over with the other the purpose of this is that this is what we have to do at the meeting we have to inform the public and now and in a separate section we'll get to what the public can and can't do so this one is only for informing this is our responsibility to inform them but when we talk about

074our code of civility and behavior and guns and all that's in a different that's in a different policy so the if that makes sense because i was getting confused myself why are we here not there so kfa kfa is for code of civility that's that would be the recommendation to add the code of civility into that policy because that one specifically governs conduct on school board property by the public and also the behavior of other individuals cursing out front of children and all of that is nvidia as well it's there is some of that nbedh about being civil and not calling people out yeah b-e-d-h perfect okay thank you and this back to 10 where we are right now it's called conduct at meeting that might not be the best name for it because we're

075not so much discussing the conduct as informing the public of consequences of conduct and we use very broad terms like disrupt or interfere i'm i'm okay with that as long as when we get to the appropriate policy we've defined what disrupt and interfere looks like and maybe there's another term that should be in here if it's truly unlawful and that is harass intimidate members of the public because they might not be disrupting the meeting but they might be harassing an individual i sure sell that via video thank you very much for sending that yes remember lopez so in the conduct admitting we cannot include the consequences just inform what i what is unlawful so this section right here is just about us informing the public this is what we have to do we have to

076inform the public either i have to or the superintendent has to inform the public that there are consequences can you inform the consequences or not i think we'll probably get into the consequences when we get into this to this the subject of what their behavior is and what the consequence here we're just informing them that they would be in violation in a separate section we'll talk about what the consequences of those violate what are those violations and what are the consequences okay but i think is there support for that okay okay i have to let remember okay member gold has jumped on and off remember bird but i have to go to remember gallo but question are we okay with putting in here harass intimidate along with interfere okay all right remember gallo thanks for

077your patience that's fine thank you thank you madam chair i would i was just going most of my questions have already been answered but i was just going to say that there is a car about for schools on the guns so in statute you're not allowed to bring guns on any school campus including the parking lot and that and i don't know right and it just pertains to school anywhere else including the capitol you can bring a gun if you have a concealed weapon but the only other people that allowed to have a concealed carry on school grounds is a guardian and that's her statue thank you member gala that's what john told me but i appreciate you clarifying it's because of the sanctity of schools which are yeah it makes all the sense in

078the world remember bert oh remember okay how did you jump in yes just for the statutory reference on that it's 790.06 and it says a concealed weapons license issued does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any of the following any meeting of a government body on a of a county public school district municipality or special district any school college a professional athletic event any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building so they have made it very widely applicable to all of our facilities totally thank you so much john remember gold then member bird remember gold quest chair we can keep mine up there but it's more for oops sorry it's more for the b-e-h discussion remember bird i was just going to suggest

079that maybe titling it notification of misconduct that meeting that sounds so much better than what i what i whatever it was i came up with that long-winded thing thank you and that's so much more describes what this is and i think just that alone would have cut down a lot of our confusion miss envel i think we're ready to move forward okay so moving on to board policy bec this is executive sessions and closed sessions what i added was a title for a and a title for b since they are two separate things collective bargaining closed sessions are permitted and then security and fire safety sessions closed sessions are permitted and then we went on to how can these be called i added this on my own as a recommendation so i just want to

080make sure you are all okay with it similar to the way that a special meeting can be called it can be called closed sessions for collective bargaining or security can be called by the chair the superintendent and or upon direction of five board members who notify the superintendent individually is that i agree i have that up for discussion for you all anybody disagree no i like the consistency member castro dental i like the wording does this include emergency meetings so this thing this is specifically a closed session for security or fire safety if we go back up or down i'd have to see okay i'm not sure if you'll bear with me for a minute i don't know if it's in b here it's here special meetings it's in policy be special meeting shall be

081held at the time designated by the superintendent board chair or when called by a majority of the school board members or board members as specified and written notice so if you want the language to be the same we can do that special meetings and we could actually add in emergency meetings if you wanted to as well i think to be specific is helpful because there's so many different kinds of meetings the emergency meeting is a different it is different animal than a closed meeting or an executive session i see in the writing it says or when called by a majority of those school board members as specified in written notice right so how are we to notify other members like what's that process you know like if one person wants to suggest it other people

082want to you know weigh in and you can't all call each other and do that so i think then we would go down to that other language that i've added in yellow based on conversations and or i've had with each of you independently or upon the direction of five board members who notify the superintendent individually because i think that's what it is now no i well that still sounds like five board members have to initiate on their own and come to the same conclusion at the same time without talking to each other to each other so is there a way that superintendent and general counsel can pull the members and say there has been a suggestion for an emergency meeting for this topic are you and we can't we can't pull you and that's the

083this is where it gets touchy because it's still we can't say that member so-and-so has asked for a special meeting on pink elephants because then we're because then we're gonna then we're acting as the conduit in between each of you so that you can't all talk to each other but we're not talking about the substance we're not coordinating it's just you're still talking about something you're gonna vote on and i think the law doesn't doesn't give you that latitude you can't talk about anything you're going to vote on you're going to vote on whether or not we have a meeting that's where it gets dicey so for instance remember we were at a meeting here and you wanted to have mandatory mass and i wanted to have mandatory mask and we opened it up to

084discussion remember byrd did but we only had three of us and so i had told everybody let the superintendent know if we if anybody else decides that they do because if we get to the point where there's five of us we can come back and have an emergency meeting or just give the superintendent direction and not have an emergency meeting but we were at a board meeting when we had that conversation the problem we run into is using miss emball as a surrogate to find out if there's five votes and then to come back and vote you can't call me directly you can't use her as a as a surrogate either because it's still something to vote on that was the problem i had when you when you emailed me i wanted to respond back

085actually i thought we were going to have emergency meeting but anyway that's another story but i couldn't email you back because i was thinking about it i thought we're not going to vote on the whether we have a meeting and then i remembered no we could vote on whether or not we have a meeting what if not all members of the board are aware of the need for an emergency meeting what if one board member has information can let me offer a suggestion and you can tell me we did this at the county there you could put something out saying i want to do something you couldn't take something back in you can't have that inner that exchange of ideas but what would prevent member caster dental from sending out an email and send it

086whatever to you or the superintendent saying i would like to propose a special meeting or an emergency meeting on x and you then communicate that you're not polling but if there are four other members that then communicate to you i want to have that too i want to have that too you're not acting as a surrogate it's not a vote and it's not actually a vote until we come here well how else do you call an emergency meeting i haven't been in all of my local government experience i've never had multiple members it's usually been a meeting that's been called by the chair the commissioner or the superintendent and can i answer that question yeah usually what you would do is you would be in this setting we would all be sitting here you would

087be wanting something and the superintendent's not scheduling it i'm not scheduling it and you say i'm going to make a motion that we have an emergency meeting and if you get a second you get the five votes that's typically how it works the problem is if it's really an emergency and you have to wait in the next weeks and the meeting is two weeks away it doesn't work really well for emergency meetings it works better for regular meetings what if we call it an impromptu meeting no no no i mean it's just it doesn't work for emergencies because if it's an emergency you have to wait for the next meeting right that is the that's the problem yes that's the problem but i'm sorry but if she did that because she if and i understand

088we if she's at a meeting with all of the board members because she then when she makes a suggestion a move that we have an emergency meeting because she also including that motion the date like next monday and when we have a meeting we're all here of course could it work that way since we can't call each other individually yes it can happen here at the diocese easily because i think that's what happened about that math situation i think but go ahead okay okay all right so we have a little work to do work to do oh because we know we can put it in here how exactly to facilitate it is the challenging part i don't think we have the answers we'll let legal counsel think through other options whether the one i suggested

089is viable or not i don't know i know we occasionally did this at the county end all right remember can i just clarify just so i know is the direction to add special or emergency meetings in our board policy be which is school board meetings we just had special meetings but now we're going to talk i mean you can call it special you can call it emergency i mean emergency is a special meeting yeah it is so why don't you say special including emergency okay thank you okay let me go back to vice chair so as far as i know everything you just described was practiced we got an email there was a call of notification that i got from the superintendent and no other board members acted on that because we for me we

090had a meeting coming up and i felt we needed the data from the community before we call a meeting prior to the date that we had it so i'm not sure we're not already practicing everything that you just described so i'm sorry i'm not really sure i know what you're talking about when in recent history when there was a request for an emergency meeting there was an email we received there was a call that we got letting us know there was interest in that and no one else well i don't know that but obviously five people did not take that call up to exercise and say and put that request in writing to the superintendent or you for an emergency meeting are we going back to are we going back to july 27th when i

091don't remember the date okay well we were here and remember kester dental she requested you requested the board meeting yes they got an email and then there was a subsequent call at least to me by the superintendent to notify me that there was this request okay and so i'm not sure we're not already practicing the ability to call that meeting but there may not be the reaction to it that whoever is requesting it i understand the reality is the policy didn't say that before gotcha and the superintendent what she wanted was she wanted confidence that the majority of the board was with her but if we put it in policy let's say the superintendent doesn't want that as chair i can call a meeting but i don't want that and there has to be a

092way for this board to get around the superintendent in me it's not personal but i've been on the other side of this where i wanted something on the doggone agenda i couldn't get it on the agenda and i felt like i should have the right to try so i want you all to have the right to try yeah so we are codifying this that nobody that there's no two people there's no one person that can block you right okay good now i'm gonna go to remember bird and then i think member vice chair had something on a different matter remember bird i think you just i think you just clarified it for me because i was just going to say that though i think that we're fine now because we have a superintendent that we

093completely fully trust that if if i bring a request to her she's going to check to see if there's other government we m that may not always be the case and we may not feel if a board member brings a request to the superintendent it may not get around to all eight board members so i definitely think there needs to be some kind of procedure where like what you said where we should be able to if it's an emergency needs to be done before a meeting that we could some way right pull yeah call call a meeting or at least communicate somehow with board members that's not in violation of sunshine yeah i agree we just have to give legal a little bit of time and space to figure that out and then if we

094want to put that in policy that process that may help i don't know but we'll come back we'll come back to that isn't we're not i'm not disregarding that at all do you vice chair well i think we're getting to the b d a h thank you okay b-e-d-h next are we done with this one so i may have missed it but i did not read anywhere in the begh where we authorize our own police force to act on our behalf i think that's an operational decision and i think that's implicit well it may be implicit but i'm not sure it shouldn't be in policy at least identified that we have that resource at our disposal can you clear i'm i'm sorry to be a little dense can you clarify what do you mean by

095to act on our behalf that they have the legal authority of being our law on site this is not well thought out so you're hearing you're hearing the sausage being made in my head but but that we have a police force that is at the at the service of the superintendent and the board and has the authority to you know on direction remove people shut down the meeting if they feel we're in in harm's way in any way that they can clear the room that there's a way to communicate with you as the chair whoever sitting in the chair to say we think you need to stop the meeting i think we need to and it may not need to be that level of detail but that's what i'm looking for i'm looking to show

096that we have this force at our disposal and it is identified and that they can even take somebody into custody while we pass them on to them to whatever municipality we're in because if we're at a school site it would be a different municipality than the sheriff or ocd yeah okay so an idea of what that would look like dr jenkins thank you madam chair so our law enforcement agency is duly authorized they are sworn officers with yes foreign officers they are they do have authority to make arrests we don't have a holding cell they would have to ask a law enforcement agency to take someone actually to jail but they are duly authorized foreign officers with that authority but you make an important point because people may assume because they're opd police officers that

097they don't have that authority whether or not policy somehow conveys that or informs the public i'll leave that to miss envel but they are sworn officers with every authority except we don't have a holding cell and my concern is especially after the accelerated behavior we recently saw is that people don't really understand their authority and i want it to be clear to our force that if they feel there is a danger they don't need to wait for us they need to act so because they can often hear and see things we can't going on in the room outside the room and we may need to take a break and just get things back in order and even eject people if that's the case so i just i if we need to put it into a

098into one of our policies i just want to make sure that it's clear and that it gets trained upon that way got it i will tell you that there is communication between our law enforcement and me and then we have established and i think one of the things i would like us to do we haven't done it in a while we only have done it once since we've all been here and that is another mock emergency and i would like to see us hold a special meeting on the subject of security that would be a closed session under the policy we've just revised yeah and it should be because i don't want to go into too much detail about what we do have in place but the board needs to be needs to know and

099be comfortable so i think we need to schedule that in fact massimble and i had that conversation just earlier today on my way in here so that's a different issue and that's a different issue that goes to the notice and i agree with you it's one thing even if we put it in the policy that doesn't necessarily mean they know it but it is important for them to know that as a deterrent as a deterrent so i'm going to leave dr jenkins you and miss embell hopefully to come back with to us with a way of making sure that we communicate to the public in an appropriate fashion that we do have our own police force that they're duly authorized to take action on their own as needed to maintain peace and safety of everyone

100in the building okay chair we have from mr palmerini mr pomeranian do we have a statutory provision that tells us we can't keep people safe oh no no no you do and what i was going to say it's 877 13 it's the statute that delineates the penalties for disrupting a school board meeting and i just wanted you to be aware there is a provision of florida law that says by publication of a statute in the statutory books every citizen in the state of florida is presumed to have constructive knowledge of the statute so that's the i can't plead ignorance as a defense of the law that you've heard before so they've i noticed by putting it in a statute like that every member of the public has notice wow that's very interesting and to vice

101chair's point though the knowledge of the role of our police force is it could act hopefully as a deterrent and so i think that i think that is important i just not i think we need you guys to come back with us with suggestions of how we do that again in an appropriate fashion so we don't want to be off-putting 90 99.9 percent of our citizens that come here come here in good faith maybe passionate but in good faith and we don't certainly don't want to create the wrong environment but let's go on to member lopez that was very hard thank you madam chair also can we include the hallways as well because i think that sometimes we're allowing people to get inside the ballroom even though they're having a very inappropriate behavior i think

102that it's not safe for our children it's not safe because we have a lot of minor here they're not i'm having you know any a good behavior you know so i think that we should include some something about the outside that person is not allowed to get inside because we already know what is going to happen with that person is getting into the meeting i'm going in my in my thought processes we started at the top i think that the district police in my mind were going to make a separate section at the bottom that will encompass all of that if that helps yes does thank you member castro dental thank you madam chair i have a question about who is the lead law enforcement agency here at the building on those nights where we

103have meetings and we also bring in opd the individual or oh i'm seeing which agency has that's a great question we are okay does that mean that if ocps police force they can direct opd or can opd act independently we'll have a mutual aid agreement with them which i believe we already do i don't think chief holmes is here but we have mutual aid agreements and actually we can bring them in for a number of different reasons and maybe that's part of that can we cover that yeah well we're having an equation absolutely okay thank you remember bird i was just gonna note on what member lopez said maybe we could have a statement that says we refuse the right of access to the boardroom to any member who shows misconduct in the lobby it's

104violating our policies in the lobby right yeah and that would take care of harassment intimidation those types of behaviors if you're not allowed to do it in the boardroom you're not going to have entrance to the boardroom if you're violating those policies in the lobby on property yeah i like that's madam chamber caster down when you say on property does that also include not just the garage but the front by the outside by amelia street on the yes brick okay it does in my opinion that's our property that's and that's going to be important okay so i think part of this too just as a jumping in here i think part of this goes into the potential revisions of policy case kfa i don't know necessarily that they go in this b-e-d-h which governs public

105input but i think we can do a reference to kfa and i know staff is already working on evaluating those with and it's going to be a it's a multi-departmental review all right back to you so we're going back to i just wanted to make sure i got here because i added some yellow stuff here that i wanted to make sure the board had a discussion about things have changed since you had your march 23rd work session on these last that was your third work session on these policies and now that you've had a chance to experience some other things i thought that it might be prudent for you to talk about some of these other things that might help you it's it's important to know that although the section 288.0114 requires that members of

106the public shall be given the reasonable opportunity to earn on a proposition before a border commission the opportunity or her doesn't have to happen at the same meeting but it's important to know that you have although the statute's supposed to be liberally liberally construed the public's opportunity heard doesn't apply in certain circumstances and the statute does however allow and it's subject to the rules or policies adopted by the board as in that section so what we're talking about now is limiting the time manner in place of the of that public input and so that's kind of where we are when it comes to this particular policy and the statute is referenced down below in the specific authority so we had already talked about dividing it up into a public input period which is pre-agenda and

107that's your subsection one and then also i'm going to go back up so don't worry and a public comment period for items on the agenda which you're subsection two so public input public comment totally different things what's really important to note your pre-agenda public input period that we're gonna talk about now and that's going to be known as it is not required by law you could get rid of it completely i think it originally came up i would be have to defer to dr jenkins but i believe it was under chairs of blood that it brought in as a means by which the public could come in and talk to things that are not on the agenda hey i'm really worried about you know this or or those kind of things and it was a

108means to start the dialogue with the board and see if the board wanted something else you know to bring something that could come before them or whatever but it was a public forum that was open for the public to come in and talk so i wanted to make sure that you understood that it is your decision right now if you don't want to do public in our public input period it's not required by law it's just something that we do and because of that because it's not a proposition or action before the board you have limited it to 30 minutes which i think is reasonable and so i wanted to the addition that i made in subsection well it's subsection a it just looks a little weird until you take away the red lines but

109specifically putting in policy that it's not required by law but it's rather provided as a means by which the public can address the board on topics that are not on the agenda and so i don't know if we want to talk about whether the board wants to keep this in there or if we just assume that you do and we can move on member felder yes thank you i think we need to keep that policy in place because we are elected by constituency they elected us because they believe that we could be their voices and some things that they have concerns about we may not ever may not ever get an agenda because there may be other business that we need to attend to that's that's important and we just may not have the time

110to do all of that so i think that we need to allow the public who has elected us the opportunity to express their concerns now the timing i know everybody wants to be able to express how they feel but if we you know i wish we could let everybody talk but we would probably be here when you also have those marathons but i remember coming to board members meetings years ago but katie kegler was sitting up here adams and it'd be 10 11 o'clock you know you all get out of that so jesus i'm not going to run from school board member but anyway i'm here but i i that could be debatable about the time or i don't know maybe just one meeting just for public input just have at it you know for

111we have like board meetings gonna be from six to eight i got two hours just whatever but i do believe that we should keep this policy in place to allow our public our constituency to share with us you know some of their feelings and we just listen so they can know that we are at least in tune to their concerns because after all they elected us thanks thank you amber cobert thank you i concur with member felder this was something that was very important to me to press the easy button for the public to have access to us to bring up any topic that they want to bring in front of us sometimes they need to bring something to our attention be it good or bad and what we've seen over this past year is

112an anomaly it is not normally this way so we need to bear that in mind that this gives easy access to the public to their elected officials so i feel strongly that the public input period remain thank you my thoughts on this i you all know i had fought hard to get this on the ballot at the county so that public the public would have an opportunity we limited it also to 30 minutes we did put more more restrictions in than what i see here a couple of things and if this is little a little thing but i think it should only be matters that pertain to orange county public schools sounds like a crazy thing but we had people come try to talk about all kinds of things that they just wanted to rant

113about and that took away from and we limited it generally to 30 minutes and that took away from time that people that wanted to speak to something germane so i would have the language in there that it needs to be germaine to the business of ocps or and i don't want to call it business the other the other things we did have the ability to shorten the amount of time if we had numerous speakers we had that ability both on our regular agenda and on our public comment speakers that were coming over and over again to speak about something that was going to be scheduled for a future meeting we didn't permit that we didn't we didn't want to have a hearing over and over and over again on something that was controversial that they

114knew was coming up in four weeks thinking that it just it was just not a productive use of their time or the board's time and again it interfered with other people who might have something that they didn't get to speak to in terms so those were issues that were coming up at a anticipated to be coming up in the near future that you would speak to it at that meeting not prior to the meeting one of the things i heard other another jurisdiction doing i don't is something to consider i think that we've all said that we don't want to limit people's right to speak to being necessarily a citizen of orange county but do we want to prioritize the right to be heard to someone who does live in orange county if we have

115three times as many speakers should we hear first from those who i want to say have skin in the game here in orange county and so i think that's something to give some thought to and those are some of the things that i think would be worth exploring whether we can reach some agreement on those different issues and i certainly don't think i've thought of all of them it's just a couple of things that came to mind and then there's also if it's the same thing over and over again if the same person is present or calling and we have other people i saw it i saw the last meeting in particular there were a lot of people that never got to speak a lot of people don't know those rules so let me go

116to member covert oh no i'm sorry member kessler dental thank you ma'am chair i have some of the same issues or concerns i'm not looking at the individual lines of this policy but i'll just give you my thoughts on different ones the term germain topics is not like a commonly used word and if we're if this is for the benefit of the public is it possible to maybe define germain i mean you can tell by the context clues what it means but i think to be more explicit in what that means pardon relevant topics or things that are outlined in the agenda okay and then also to follow up on what the chair mentioned about people who come to speak if maybe on the speaking speaker cards if there's a box that they could check

117that they're a student or a parent an employee or an orange county resident or other that might be able a simple way to prioritize the speakers and then i had a question about on this on the sign up cards or the speaker cards if they need to complete a mailing address is that just for contact information or do we need like their residence historically that's just been an operational thing for for contact purposes i think like if if you know if it's a topic they bring up that you want dr vasquez or somebody to contact you know we need to be able to get back in contact with them not go hey the third speaker could you give us your address you know so it's been a method by just to reach out to that

118person okay i wonder if we should also get an id or or if that's too much information so requiring an id might run you into some legal challenges because public is allowed to attend and even if they're doing signing up to speak we're not going to validate whether or verify that they live at that particular address okay i wouldn't be asking to prevent them from speaking just that we had a accurate address as well but sometimes we have an issue where we can't read what they wrote too sometimes maybe they could spell their names phonetically for the chair anybody anything oh and one more thing is when we talk about people who call in versus people who attend in person i think they should be treated equally because some people just can't attend because of

119child care transportation or fear of intimidation or for health and safety reasons that's maybe why they didn't attend so taking calls and i don't know if we should have a preference over which way they want to share their information that's all so just to that point there's no requirement that you offer calling in as an as an accommodation i know we did for covid but there's no legal obligation unless the board wants to continue that so if you want to go through i think a lot of the things that you've said i've already captured in the proposed revisions and they're in yellow so if you want to go through those unless you have other people that want to talk first and then we can well thank you for clarifying that yeah that might help us

120let me just run through real quickly i'm sorry remember gal is on the line okay member bird thank you i was just going to agree with the suggestion of prioritizing the speakers for sure because i certainly would want students who show up and parents i would think to be first priority i love the idea of having check boxes on the cards they fill out so we know because there's been a few instances i think where parents have not been able to speak on other issues then probably we really needed to hear because people from volusia county were here on a political topic so i really like that idea i'm i'm a little concerned i like the idea of limiting time too if we have too many speakers but with having the limits that are put

121in here proposed in here zero to 20 speakers allotted three minutes each 20 speakers at three minutes would be 60 minutes right so that would we wouldn't even go to 60 minutes really ever do we ever right so oh wait this is agenda okay wait no no no sorry i'm sorry so we do have the two we have the pre-agenda and then we haven't even gotten into the items that are on i mean the pre-agenda you've limited to 30 minutes so you could we realistically we could have well i don't know if you'd have 30 people speaking at a minute each but we usually have just given them three minutes but if they do less sometimes you'll get in a couple of past weeks we've gotten in 10 or 12 speakers because they've only spoken

122for for a minute or you know less okay is but there's nothing in here about limiting the time right is that in there under the public input period which is your pre-agenda in subsection one i did not have any limits in there because you only have 30 minutes right but i mean but we could add but there it i thought there was i thought there was something that said that the chair could could is it there allow a shorter amount of time to allow more speakers i thought originally we did have something like that in there but we so we could allow if we have more than 10 speakers that we could reduce the amount of time still 30 minutes but reduce it to 2 minutes per speaker so more people can like a tiered

123approach kind of or like a graduate approach like i've actually done in the second part if you want that for yourself you're saying to add a add the ability to limit the time in pre-agenda as well so a question for you member bird just as a starting point with you do we go down to one minute or is one minute too short of a period of time to give people an opportunity to communicate so i think it would make sense that we say if there's more than 10 speakers we're going to limit it because that's going to allow a few more people to two minutes do we say if there's more than well if everybody took this i should be able to do that i think we could just put a yeah couldn't we just

124leave it up to the chair at her description section three if you want to look at it i put it up on the board there a lot of time for speakers a is during the public input period which is your pre-agenda period and i could put during public input period during pre-agenda so that way it's clear each speaker shall have up to three minutes to address the board within the 30 minutes allowed for public input period so you're you're saying maybe do a graduated approach there too if you look at b during the public comment period which is regular agenda items you don't you don't have limits on now you can we can limit in time manner in place but if you have 300 people that show up they all get a chance to speak

125but it has to be in your policy how you're going to limit that time during your public input period during pre-agenda you have it already limited to 30 minutes because that's not required by law i don't know if i explain myself but can i clarification question there so on a which is going to say public input period during pre-agenda meeting maximum of 30 minutes then are you saying that we would need to say in here that how we're going to allow that time to be used like we did below or can we say up to three minutes per speaker but maybe less depending upon the number of speakers we could do that would be that big i think it just it just i think it needs to be clear so that everybody knows the rules

126coming in right here's the problem with the reality of that is that nobody really knows the rules when they come in even when we tell them so let's say we tell them that it's three minutes maximum and it might be less well that doesn't really tell them how many minutes because they don't know until they come in if we tell them it's three minutes maximum but they don't realize that they're not going to get to speak at all even though we've told them there's still no certainty so this is they're from experience somebody there's always no matter what we do there's going to be times when people don't understand the rules don't agree with them and aren't prepared to cut their remarks they come they've i mean i've done this i have written out exactly

127what i was going to say i got it right down i mean i remember vividly being on the other side of this dice and then suddenly i'm told i have two minutes and i'm like i can't i can't do this in two minutes it doesn't make sense so i understand that frustration but i also understand the goal of trying to hear more people and that's why i was thinking maybe two minutes but one minute can you really say much of anything if we get you down to one minute and can we make this decision now or what is it going to take for us to land this plane so delay on the plane if you can give me some direction now that would be great unless you want to come back for another work session

128can i take input from member covert yeah well can i just make a comment about your one minute question yeah at the state board of education meeting they took minute comments and cut people off so i mean it was it was enough of because it was on that one top it was enough where you got the gist of where they landed on the topic yeah i sure do okay so remember gold is next i thought member cobert had something specifically jermaine she had to jump in remember gold vice chair gold you're recognized and that will go to member coverage remember cobra something that isn't on that specific issue and then i think member gallow just a suggestion where it says shall have up to three minutes you could add paren adjustable at the discretion of

129the chair and then it lands on a total of okay and this and the number of speakers adjustable at the discretion of the chair based on number of speakers yes and it lands in a total of 30 minutes yeah i do want it to be abundantly clear that is not a guarantee that everybody gets to speak okay do you want to put that specifically in i do let's say there's this because this is not you know there's no guarantee something about right because there's a tight limit for time sensitivity however due to the 30 minute time constraint there's no guarantee that all all members of the public who wish to speak will have an opportunity to at that meeting that's where emails are beautiful and madam chair one of the logistics we were trying to

130work out for your pre-agenda meeting is when those individuals are coming in from the doorway that they say we have they just give out to the first 25 people 20 people that are in line and then after that we don't have any further cards because it's only a 30-minute period except for even with that we need to make sure that those 20 people know that it might be only 10 of them speaking correct and if they never i won't go there okay vice chair so something else that you said because i like the way that we're handling this and being able to adjust somewhere people can give their input but you talked about relevancy to our scope and authority how will we judge that relevancy kind of to our scope and authority because and here's

131the example because this comes up several times now is critical race theory critical race theory is not something that we teach nor is it in any of our curriculum or scope and authority but it is something that keeps coming and is being socially social media motivated to to come so there's a lot of confusion out there about it so how would we how would we handle something like that i mean it's because i like the thought of there's so many relevant things that come whether it's about you know esc or some of our students who come or there's just so many relevant ecg's we learned exactly the ecgs that we can and should be putting into the scope of our work and we often have as has been pointed out these kind of repeat conversations

132so that it can be socially mediated so one thing we could do with critical race theory because it really is an energy jurisdiction even if we wanted to teach critical race because we're banned legislatively from teaching it we could i could try to put a stop to that if we had a policy that said that so i could say it's not under our jurisdiction it's it's banned by the state we don't teach it if there's anybody else on that subject and maybe we could move off off of that she used the term germaine remember bird thought jermaine wasn't oh member castronella under the authority jurisdiction relevant what's the term relevant topic so instead of germaine so yes so here's here's one abortion texas okay no i'm just saying because honestly you all don't see a

133lot of it i'm used i'm used to seeing whatever the whatever the most controversial issue is come speak to so that's where i thought i wasn't trying to make it so specific but it has to be relevant to what we do here the ecg's was very relevant right just discussing abortion abortion laws in texas is not relevant i really like the way that you described on how you would handle that and i'm not saying it should be here but maybe that is in the script that is memorialized a little bit so that we're always saying it in the same way you're talking about these you know when when we have our notes on things just like that policy about that we just discussed putting at the bottom that you know the lawful behaviors i think

134it helps if we are always consistent whether you're absent and somebody's sitting in your stay or there is somebody who sits in that chair next that has a consistency on how that's handled because that can go off the rails really fast when not handled in the right way but if we are respectful and can say that's you know not in our scope and authority or however it's not relevant to the business that we have at this day yes or however we describe that i think that's really helpful okay thank you remember gallo oh thank you madam chair i'm just going to comment on the pre-agenda and the time frame to allow more speakers i think we've kind of worked it out although i do believe at one time when we were discussing their pre-agenda and

135how to maximize the amount of speakers that we could have during it we had there had been some discussion about at the beginning of the meeting like making a motion or just announcing okay we usually get three minutes now due to the amount of speakers that we have an effort to hear everybody we're limited to one minute two minutes so i think we've worked it out already but i just wanted to say that i would support that and i think that's doable they do it all the time up here in tallahassee if they have a lot of speakers and effort to hear anybody and i think that as mentioned i think by remember bird that if only a lot at a minute you can get a lot of words in in one minute and we

136could absolutely get the scope of what you're trying to say okay okay thank you thank you member gallow amber cover okay member felder i guess i just wanted to make sure i was clear about the people coming in i you said something no more than like 20 cards but i don't know if i agree with that because if people make an effort they get off their jobs early or whatever they need to do to get down here and they're in line everybody's in line at the same time i know we can't hear everybody i mean it's kind of hard but rather than put a limit on cards given out at the discretion of the chair when we reach like the we see we got 100 people you know we're not going to be able to

137hear 100 people we got 30 people 40 people then when she says that you have a minute and once that minute is up they know that when even though we're giving them the card you understand that there's a possibility that you may not speak but i don't think we should not allow them to fill out the card because if they came down here or if they come down here we should give them the opportunity to fill out the card and you know that it's a risk because if there are 20 people ahead of you or 30 or whatever you know that you may not speak but give them the card but to have them come and say we don't you know well we've got our limb you can't get a card i think we need

138give them a card because sometimes people are sitting here and they'll have 10 people talking about the same thing and people say well i yield my time or i yield my time you still can hear other people but give them if they come give them the car let them fill it out and then at the discretion of our chair when we look at the amount of people that want to speak and we're looking at our times especially we got a heavy agenda then give her that opportunity to say now you'll have a minute to speak because we want to hear everyone but give every everybody comes out here they want to speak give them a card that's that's what i wanted to say okay i mean that's good advice remember i'm sorry dr jenkins thank

139you madam chair i just want to clarify so if is it if it is an item on the agenda we have to give out 150 cards if that many show up which i want to make sure we speak to like we have when we do our rezoning there's specific language there that says by a time certain the meeting has to adjourn and then continue to the next day because we've heard of some meetings going on for 15 20 hours i think it's reasonable that you may want some time certain that the meeting has to end and then continue the next day not that you put out new speaker cards but that you continue the next day so people are actually at least coherent to listen i want to make sure that's a possibility so pre

140so agenda items everybody gets to speak nobody's going to stop handing out cards what we were trying to stop was this furor over let them all speak for pre-agenda when we know we only have 30 minutes so if you hand out 75 cars and you know you're only going to get in about a dozen they are mad when they come in here and the chair then says we've got 30 minutes three minutes each clearly she asked amy usually how many speaker cards do you have and amy says some ungodly numbers she says clearly there won't be enough time the crowd gets upset and so there has to be something perhaps on the cards for pre-agenda that says more than likely we have added the blue cards have been amended to specifically let's the public know

141that it's only 30 minutes but i want to make sure member felder understood right we got to we have to listen to everybody for agenda items that 30 minute period i don't know how we stop people from feeling misled that they fill out a card and we knew full well we weren't going to have 50 people in a 30-minute time period i don't know the answer to it if it's already on the card i apologize anybody didn't realize miss envel that it's already on the card we were trying to de-escalate that anger as soon as she says we're not going to get to everybody because they got their card in their hand and they think they're entitled to speak so if it's on the card i'm good but i do want if people come i

142want them to be a if they come i want them to have that opportunity and it's clear you know if it's 100 people you know and you're the 88th person you know you're not going to speak that's clear but we've given you the opportunity we've been open to have give you that opportunity you just got to get it earlier so a couple of thoughts on this we need to put something bold on the card i think we should not say that you're limited to three minutes because that suggests you're going to get three minutes you might come in here and you only get one minute i think it should a question all this is based on people read it but you'll depending upon the number of speakers signed up you'll have anywhere from one to

143three minutes to speak if and this is where the if comes in if you have a time to speak at all i don't know somehow if we put all that on the card i will remind everybody that at the last meeting i made it real clear that we had too many speakers and there wasn't going to be time and we allocate 30 minutes i went through it and i was i was more clear than i've ever been before because i recognized that there were some people i did not remember seeing in the chambers they might not know and that didn't change the fact that people a couple of people were livid and felt deceived so if we can write it on a card we could have a loud speaker out in the lobby we could

144have big bold signs and we can have me saying it i there's no way to rule out the possibility that people are going to be confused but whatever we can do to be as clear and transparent as we can be i think we should try to be which brings me to a section in here that i was a little concerned about it's under 1b under the public input and it's about halfway down it says in the event of a disruption of this public input period or in the event there are any safety concerns the board chair may conclude the public peer public input period early even if all speakers have not had an opportunity to speak that i just realized is in the public input period in the regular meeting that makes sense i thought

145this also applied to pre-agenda and i didn't and that would lead me to believe that if there was no disruption we would take all the speakers so if you can work on the language on the card and i can send you the cards i can't send you now i don't have my computer but we deborah and i have been we've been very we've been amending it as needed okay and since we've just given you some new direction that we could go down as short as a minute and as long as three minutes maximum of 30 minutes and if we have more speakers then we can accommodate in 30 minutes you will not have an opportunity to speak at this at this meeting you may not have an opportunity to speak at this meeting something like

146that it's in writing it's in their hands they know it might be one minute it might be three minutes and it might be no minutes thank you okay that voice chair so yeah you just articulated so i'm gonna highlight it i think that if we put the time limit and maybe spin it to a positive way but it shows that it won't work like our board meetings stop at a time or start at a time certain moment whatever that is and there is 30 minutes allotted for speakers this may not allow for all to speak something with a more positive spin than the negative spin but usually and then the language we use last time in order to accommodate more speakers i don't even know that we put that on the card because i think

147then you have the flexibility to be able to do that because then but if it says we only have 30 minutes and then they come in and you're saying as you'll have seen on the card we have 30 speakers today everybody gets a minute where i was going with that is that we could say in order to accommodate more speakers the chair may reduce the amount of time yeah to one minute or to to to the of time to a yeah to accommodate more i wouldn't put any expectation minutes in the event each speaker sounds 30 minutes sorry no each speaker is not held to 30 minutes or three minutes no not 30 minutes sorry it sort of came out of your mouth believe it or not i got it i've got it amy got

148it thanks all right okay i'm just gonna highlight this and add a note okay to fix i don't know dr jenkins says she got it got it okay miss envelope can we go through hang on dr jenkins you reckon remember gallo you recognize thank you i'm sure i have a question regarding the speaker cards are they are they subject to sunshine state like records request if someone were to request like all of the speaker cards from the last board meeting by law do we have to give them to them yes and we have routinely received a request for them is there anything on our speaker card that lets the individual know that this card is subject to records requested they know that their information may be given to a third party i don't think so

149i don't have a copy of one of the cards before me but we can certainly add that we're we're running out of space on our half-page speaker cards but i can add that yeah but any anything we do would be subject anything sorry okay you know i just i know that i got a couple of emails from constituents who were concerned that their emails to me would be given over in a recent records request and i inform them that anytime you email an elected official that it is subjected to a records request so i think that the more information that we could give the public so that they understand the process the better off that they will be i think they need to understand that we have to get this over i just i think

150if we could add them to the card if there's enough room that would be great and if i can follow up on one comment on that member gallo the one concern i have the biggest concern i have is physical addresses so if you put your email address on there somebody may email you and you didn't want that email but i'm much more concerned about the potential of somebody i'm arriving at your front door and i think we had a situation it was actually a board member in another jurisdiction where that became a problem so i don't think we can fix that right this second but we wanted to know the zip code or the school what district people were in so that it could help board members up here when they hear from public speakers

151parents in particular but specific street addresses may be more information that might be appropriate in this day and age i don't know vice chair did we already hear from you i thought we did all right we're back to you do you want to see if you can get us back on track oh try let's go back up so the first section was about the public input period prior to pre-agenda meeting i added and then you said you liked the invent of the disruption the public like we had before we had a had to that 30 minutes the issue is your regular school board meeting starts at a time certain so if the public cannot behave itself during pre-agenda then that 30 minutes goes away and this actually author authorizes you to cut it short as

152well because it's not required by law moving on to the public comment period for items on the agenda i hate being so redundant but i think it's really important until we get used to vernacular of public input period and public comment period i think it's important for the public to put that out there as well so this hasn't changed before that from what we had i think i did add specifically though the statutory reference that says that we should be give everybody should we give a reasonable opportunity to turn and then we have in order for us to maintain orderly conduct in a public meeting regarding the amount of time manner in place in which an individual can address the board that's why it's in there a lot of time for speakers we're going to

153fix that three minutes for the public input period prior to pre-agenda meeting like we just talked about dr jenkins has that this is the language that i added on my own about subsection b during the public comment period for items on the agenda the time limitations for each speaker shall be as follows one did i had zero to 20 but we wouldn't have any speakers if we had zero anyway one to 20 speakers are allotted three minutes each 21 to 40 speakers are allotted two minutes each and 41 plus speakers are allotted one minute each in the event there are 41 or more speakers the following tiered approach shall be applied to those who have signed up to speak and i'm thinking like you all suggested a checklist or something a check box in the

154on the blue card tier one is reserved for parents legal guardians and employees they would go first tier two is reserved for citizens who reside in orange county florida so they would go second and tier three would reserve for citizens who do not reside in orange county florida they would go third this requires a little bit of school board services staff manipulation time if we have more than 41 speakers but that allows the priority that you all have expressed not all of you but some of you have expressed that allows that to happen so i didn't know if we want to discuss revisions to that particular if that's clear enough or if it's not clear enough if you want to expand the 1 to 20 or the 21 to 40 or the 41 and above

155or if you want to make it more narrow are you saying if we have 100 speakers that one to 20 gets three minutes and then the you know if there are total so okay good that's what i thought okay so maybe i need to say that one yeah i'm not saying speakers one to 20 get three minutes speakers you know so it's the number of speakers so maybe i need to clarify that no i thought it was clear when you just when you said something just a minute ago was when you got me confused and i just no i think if you have over over 41 speakers that want to sign up like let's say 150 of them come they are limited to one minute each and then you could have a priority for those

15650 speakers in that tier i logistically we'd have to figure it out with staff and in the blue card situation assuming that we always have the blue card situation because we're also exploring some online mechanisms to assign the only thing i would change is when you say tiered isn't it maybe we want maybe we want to use a term priority priority yeah the board may prioritize speakers in the following approach and then it would be priority one two three and that would be again it's it's just an order of how we call them not whether we call them and okay dr jenkins you're right madam chair i wonder if we might use the term i didn't see it but it's glaring to me now if you might just use the term individuals rather than citizens

157oh gosh yes i'm sorry that was one of my yeah members of the public or individuals like yeah i saw that too i was like the word citizen is not an okay word so there we're going to say we're served for members of the public -huh yeah okay sorry and there's another place where the words i would just do a global because i found like three different places where we use the term citizens besides that it's an old vernacular we were so used to sorry okay thank you sorry making myself a note sorry okay so it's a priority right yeah and so we say board may prioritize the speakers using the following yeah i haven't gotten that following approach who has signed up to who have already signed up to speak right because they have

158to get here by a time certain in order to sign up to speak it's not just rolling right is that clear enough if you want to look at it again okay i'm gonna flag this myself because i want to i don't want them to think that speakers one through twenty yeah because that's not the intent yeah yeah let's we'll work on yeah yeah thanks i'm a little worried about maintaining our quorum here i'm not sure do we're not taking official action this is a work session that's true that's true thank you okay so then moving on there was no so i wanted to have since you're here i want to have a discussion about telephonic so by law you're not required to take callers we have made that accommodation in light of the pandemic when

159you do have callers there are certain things that you can't i don't know how you're going to verify or follow your tiered approach i tried to do that there but i mean i guess it's like anything else they you know you're relying upon what they provide to you so callers i didn't know if you wanted to have that discussion about callers or we haven't really had that we've been using it so i wanted i thought in policy it was important to keep because we might there might be an instance where you either want to keep it and or not so i added by motion and vote of the board speakers may call in during any public input to address the board but it's not at each board meeting so let me ask you this i

160think i always not always but a lot of times i think that operational issues like this we want the policy broad enough so that we can fluctuate based on the needs of the time so during last year no vaccines yes we wanted people to call in right now i want people to be able to call in because i know there's growing concerns about the tension in the room and so if we want people to feel safe if we want people to participate we need to make them feel safe so i would not want to remove the opportunity to call in but i also hate for us to have to come back and revisit this whole policy if at some point we're back to a sense of normalcy and there's no reason not to come in

161pandemic is gone tension's down so my preference would be for us to not have to memorialize this one-way owner policy and i just don't know right this minute how exactly we might do that does it have does it have to be by it change the policy it just is off i mean it was something that has come up that we didn't really have regulated right so i mean and i'm gonna there's there's one other concern that i have i think we may be reaching a point where we've accomplished about as much as we're going to as a board i could be wrong about that well we only have a couple more provisions i don't know if you want to keep going okay so you want me to revisit the calling provision yes okay oh i

162was actually talking about just stamina here oh do we need a break no but i find myself even thinking okay how do we how do we want to do this and normally i should i should be able to think about how how we want to say that more generic language yeah yeah okay okay remember sorry it doesn't right so you say that and we haven't been doing that is that new oh it is no i don't think the board actually voted on on adding callers i think it's just something you discussed and we were able to do it technologically so are you suggesting by this language that at the beginning of each meeting no no that wasn't the intent when i read it out loud that was not the intent because i don't want you

163to do it for each meeting okay but the public may be afforded the opportunity to participate by telephone and in that event they shall follow the or something like that so according to member byrd's interpretation of this then the board could also suspend that practice by vote can you make that more clear and i can okay that would work okay i specifically added the this isn't new though is what we had before if if the time allotted for the public input period during the pre-agenda expires those who signed up to speak but did not get a chance to speak will need to return to a subsequent pre-agenda meeting they don't get any preference in the speaking rules i didn't want them to say well i didn't get you know i was next last time so

164i got to be first this time that's not how it goes you get to sign up new each time all right signing up to speak what i added was the superintendent is authorized to establish reasonable time frames and procedures governing the sign up process within the parameters of this policy before you only had that they could sign up to speak 15 minutes before but when we have 150 people that was odd when we have 150 people we may not be able to get them all signed up to speak within those 15 minutes so this is more of a generic thing if you're okay with that provision yeah no yes okay moving on relevant topics instead of jermaine topics added the in parentheses non-agenda items speakers wishing to address items or issues on the regular board

165meeting agenda will be asked to return and address the board during the public comment period for such regularly scheduled board meeting for the agenda item in question i think we've done a really good job of capturing people who sign up to speak school board services can identify oh there it looks like they're speaking on something on the board regular meetings so we do that other matters i added that specifically the public's opportunity this is in statute the public's opportunity to be heard does not apply to an official act and circum act in certain emergency situations and an act involving no more than a ministerial act such as the approval of minutes and ceremonial proclamations and or in a meeting that is exempt from 286.011 which is your executive sessions coda civility was always in here

166i added see also board policy kfa which governs the conduct of people on school board property and these are the last two big things that you have to worry about because the other thing is so these are just the last two things visual audio and or demonstrative aids demonstrative is such a word i know right i was trying i was trying to be broad but yet narrow right so this is a new one members of the public shall not be permitted to use visual audio and or demonstrative aids to use bring sorry well they can't use visual or audio darn it may not bring such aids into the chambers yes and do we call it board chambers or boardroom board chambers thank you okay i don't know that's what i was asking that was that

167was my comment over on the side because when i was drafting it last night i didn't know board chambers or boardroom what do we call it boardroom i call it chambers because it's part of my thing about the protocol and it kind of helps to say you're not just in a room you're in a chamber this is this is semantics so that's what i was wondering what the preference of the board since i have a majority of you here and on and on the phone what do you prefer to call it i like chambers but the superintendent is going to tell us how much it's going to cost to switch the sign out i'm not switching the sign but i like chamber okay okay okay so we're going chambers okay so the board didn't have

168the opportunity to discuss this before because it really hadn't really been an issue so what it used to say is no audio no visual or audio i don't know they couldn't bring them in as part of during during a presentation so it didn't specifically say you can't bring them in which is what i think the board wants to discuss now do you do you want to limit them we certainly can we can we can limit the time manner in place as i said under the statute but it has to be in your policy and it has to say that i do think that there are some and some of the bigger ones or some of them they had them on sticks and they would block the view of the people behind them i think those

169are some of your issues i mean are the demonstrative aids or visuals are they are they for you or are they for the public or the media who may be watching so i just didn't know this is what i proposed but you can feel free to dr jenkins amend so just as a point of background this is a discussion that we had previously it used to just be part of our protocol not policy that posters were not allowed the chair would simply say i'm sorry you can't bring the posters in you'll have to leave them outside it was a consideration for the people sitting behind you who couldn't see and it was just a rule that was in place i would strongly recommend we have some limitation to large posters because we are not going

170to allow people to stand in the back of the room that's supposed to be reserved for the media so if you're sitting down with a large poster you are going to be blocking individuals view behind you but historically they were not allowed miss envel and at least advised that we could not continue to prohibit them because that was not in your policy i would prefer that we just not allow them i have in the past seen very very inappropriate material and then we get into deciding what is and isn't appropriate while we're trying to run a meeting so i think it would be easier to just not permit them in the chambers if we as long as we can legally do that i don't nobody is objecting sorry and mr palmerini is nodding his head

171and also mr paul mourinho while you're nodding if we say you don't get to stand in the back of the room in fact in front of that media area that's actually a walk way between the two doors if you'll notice so we're going to say to individuals you'll need to be seated you're not allowed to stand in the back of the room does that need to be in policy or is that just a safety precaution that's operational safety precautions all right so i did add it number 10 in case you wanted it no no posters in policy no standing is part of our safety practice got it okay remember gilbert so i do think this goes to safety so if you're not allowed to congregate in the back of the room one if you're holding

172up a large sign you are blocking people behind you and that's not fair you're here to address the board you're not here to address other members of the public i don't i do believe it becomes a safety issue the ones that are on sticks and polls i think that's allowing you to bring something into the boardroom that you normally would not be allowed to bring so i think it is a safety measure thank you member cover and i did just to clarify unless otherwise permitted by the board the board may decide that they want to hand out pink flags for october and you want to wave them and take a picture but that's a board direction thing that's a board permission thing okay i'm sorry member cobra make one more point it does say unless

173otherwise permitted by the board we have had when on the occasion of a naming of a school where the school community brought two banners waiting to see which name the school would get and when they got it they unfurled the banner so unless permitted by the board is an important distinction here yes absolutely thank you for clarifying that even that hits to the point i can see that enthusiasm super all right and so i'm going to eliminate number 10 is that correct but that's going to be an operational thing yes so we don't we don't need it in listed there it's operational you don't need it but i just so maybe it's not necessary but maybe it wouldn't hurt to have it included i'm straining to look at mr paul marini mr palmy is there

174any reason not to include it's not legally required but if you want to make sure everybody knows yeah you can include it i would rather then i can cite to our policy without having to pull out statute although that's kind of fun to do and then number 11 i was going to add a district police edition something there and number 12 was that the board reserves the right to refuse entrance into the board chambers if someone to someone who cannot it's it's going to be nicer than that yeah that makes sense yes it does okay and guess what we're at the end okay wait oh wait now i have a special extra presentation that mr pomerani would like to update you on are we done with the policies while he's coming there's still this issue

175of time certain for the end of a meeting we have it when we're doing rezoning for a new school that's when we used to have really long meetings the board i think needs some protection that you don't have to go till 2 a.m i completely agree simply because you have speakers so we had a time cert and i believe it's 10 o'clock we do 10 o'clock at time certain the board meeting has to end and it loops over to the next day no new sign up for speakers just finishing the meeting the next day i concur with that the only thing that obviously means that we need to know what time is starting the next day and we always need to have that time and everybody's gonna notice as well as board members need to

176know that every tuesday also involves a potential wednesday meeting okay got it thank you i think that makes a lot of sense i don't know if it's the next it's similar it's in our rezoning policy already that it's already yeah okay and this these policies won't be effective until they go to the rule development workshop and come back to us but right we're we're not done with that yet so all right when is that if it goes to a wednesday so we don't have any rezonings coming up right away but if we had one with lots of sp we haven't had that kind actually in the last few times we've done rezoning we've not had that long list of speakers but if it did come up we'd give you plenty of notice we don't have

177one coming up soon did i hear 10 o'clock is the ending time yes i believe that's the same we have on rezoning if you'll double check it do you want me to add a provision in there unless i mean it might be that you have four more speakers and it'll be right yes absolutely i was thinking the same thing that i don't want to have to boot us out of here if we're almost done and of the at the discretion of the board or or the board of reverse okay yep i got it okay all right don't don't delete my exchanges i'm not touching your computer i don't know members of the board just wanted to give you a brief update i sent you like three or four emails yesterday just want to explain the

178import it's on our rule challenge the department of health filed a motion to dismiss not only our rule challenge but the rule challenge filed by the parents and the naacp to say that there was no standing for either any of those parties to bring a challenge the administrative judge dismissed the naacp and the parents and said they have no stand no standing because their injuries are speculative meaning they hadn't gone to school and actually gotten sick so they hadn't suffered an injury in fact with us school districts he said we are persons under the statute and under the 120 56 any person may file a rule challenge because we are a unit of local government the administrative judge cited like 38 or 39 separate cases where district units of local government had standing and did

179in fact file rule challenges in response to that ruling the department of health filed a writ of prohibition with the first eca and written a prohibition is a it's an extraordinary rate meaning it's not often granted and i cited you some language but it says it's meant to be very narrow in scope to be employed with great caution and only utilized in emergencies and it says and the florida supreme court has says a writ of prohibition cannot be used to revoke an order already entered so we think in our analysis of it that since the order was already entered by doa to say we do in fact have standing that this rid of prohibition is untimely if they thought it shouldn't have been in in front of doa in the first place they should have

180filed immediately rather than filing a motion to dismiss if we have to what's what may happen is the first district court of appeals where this rid of prohibition has been filed they may issue an order to show cause and then we will respond to it accordingly through our outside lawyers but the argument we're going to make is this would be untimely because it should have been filed immediately if you thought doa didn't have jurisdiction and that is the brief brief update on where we are in litigation that was amazing john thank you that was succinct and everybody could understand it i'm not saying that's unusual i mean i know that came across the superintendent would disagree with that assertion with respect to amy and i but i digress and awesome okay if there's no further

181business to come for the board this meeting is now adjourned good meeting guys very good meeting thank you yeah great job amy all right do you