November 18, 2025, Board of Education Retreat

001I don't have anything. >> All right. We will now call this meeting to order at 12:20 p.m. We'll start with a roll call for the record. >> Sorry 34 12:34 p.m. Sorry. I'm the chair, Carmen Tilton, and I'm present. When I call your name, please indicate if you are present. Vice Chair UTS >> present. >> Board member Anderson >> present. >> Board member Hernand >> present. >> Board member Johnson Davis is not present. The next agenda item on our agenda is full board governance training by Julia Bernath of the Jordan School Board Service Association Association and Dr. Roberta. >> Hello. Good afternoon everybody. Um Julie and I are excited about being with you again today and uh working with the team in preparation for some time together. Great teams periodically stop, take a deep breath,

002take a look at how things are going, what's working, what's not. Um but but every once in a while we have to not only look out the window meaning at the data but also at ourselves in a mirror um and reflect on how things are going with us individually as teams uh and that's an important part of development. So we've got some um activities that we'll be working with today. You all know Julia you want to share some things? >> Sure. I'm I'm so glad to be with you guys again and y'all are such a high functioning board that um but boards don't often as Robert said take the time to stop and and think about how well they're doing and what their challenges may be and just share information. So today I have a

003couple little activities. The first one is being passed around right now. This is a think about it, write about it, talk about it. Um, so there are questions on both sides that I would like to ask you to just while you're eating here, give you a few minutes >> to write down um the answers to these. What are three things that you are doing well as an individual schoolboard member or superintendent? What are three things that you are doing well as a governance team? What three things are you struggling with as an individual school board member or superintendent? What are three things that you're still going to do as a team? And finally, who can you go to ask for help with the struggles that you need? And then, um, thinking back when you first

004ran into the board or wanted to be a superintendent, what advice can you offer to your team members that you have learned that could help you and your group be a better team? So, I want you to fill this out individually first, and then once you've all filled it out, you're going to find an elite partner and talk with them about it. and then um share it out. Then we thought they >> Yes, please. >> Please make sure unless it's a really good system, but also going to be the time that he's got today. So if you can pair with the person that's closest to you and husband to James and Tracy and Carmen and Ga and Hans and Nia if y'all will just sit for a minute and share some ideas and and then

005we'll we'll let you share out the group. All right. So I feel in the last couple of months >> that's a lot of scrum social media response to becoming fed up with it. There's like a more section I think that is a five would be engagement and so that is sort of good trains. It's happened since >> it knows exactly. It smells exactly right. >> But but we're left with Okay. But when we got rid of like all of our other methods of outreach and everything that's so much >> meeting with people where that >> human interaction is able to happen and that is extremely >> you up just like >> it tends to be exactly right. It tends to be like I'll mean to somebody that's touches the other somebody together. You know what

006I mean? It ends up being there's real empathy and you know the social norms of not being an opposition in the internet. >> Um that has >> and it's been it's been both a great way to influence my thinking on sound effects and it's been I think a great >> Do you think you change your lesson? >> I think that or one of the other ones. >> What are some things you're doing well as a governance team? The two are funny. I said the first one is pivoting to hear from a real community when the community is right >> and I think I can see I think holding firm it's not >> and so yes I've been influenced but I've been assumed to be able to serious conversations been an advocate for that such >>

007it's hard to stand >> we often have the conversation >> but it really is like speaking. I think um you have to get your intimidating place. I'm trying to, you know, take the lessons I've learned actually. >> So, I think >> that goes into like the legislative. >> I think the growth point there is I think I can also be a little bit more like I guess I need capital. I just I feel like >> managing school and everything. It's like it's really hard and so I have all these things I want to do and trying to follow the amount of time I actually come to these >> gold I can say that I think record was pretty much not being afraid to to speak out and sometimes >> is not there for the whole

008>> Let's take about one more minute on our partners and then we'll point out >> to you reaction. Well, I think maybe finish with right sometimes use your voice. You don't have to ask questions also say >> no talking I don't think this Right. So they were already usually and there was some level of relationship established there. So when they heard us ask people that they didn't hear all the he really and were they were prepared the audience was prepared to respond to us in good faith which I think I think that >> okay are you guys about ready to start sharing out >> okay let's let's start with Hans and Nia >> I think with the first >> yeah the first question. The first question you feel like you're doing well >> as an

009individual board member or superintendent, >> up to three. It doesn't have to be three, but something you feel like you're doing well. >> What stood out for you? Um well we kind of strayed a little bit outside of the questions but um I think definitely um you know I've been trying to find my own voice and um speak up more and use the mic um when I can because you know I've had all these meeting with students and I've all these like I've done a lot of thinking about um the lessons I've learned and how I want that to actually like go into practice. Um and so I feel I'm finally feeling like comfortable in my own skin. um primed for the rest of the year. >> Awesome. >> I'm I definitely I mean I

010think you use your voice well. So yeah, see >> um I mentioned that that I I've made no secret of my sort of scorn for for Facebook as a communication platform and particularly over the last five years as it's degenerated while uh the owners abdicate any responsibility to maintain decorum. But then it it's all of our other methods of really communicating with the community have atrophied because I think for the last 15 years we've sort of depended off as a as a platform. uh in the last couple of months, I know a number of us on the board have started uh really intentionally kind of one-on-one or small group meeting with parents and other community members where the sort of social norms of communication still exist >> and that as a trust building exercise and

011his ability to hear people's genuine concerns and respond to their genuine concerns I think in in that enormously helps build kind of a two-way >> trust. And I think we felt that in the last community meeting where where folks were ready >> to come in. They, you know, that conversation could have gone any number of ways, but but because they heard us genuinely grappling with the complexity of uh consolidation versus utilization. And because there were a number of personal relationships with each of the people that came up and spoke, I think I think the community approached it with a level of good faith that um has sometimes been missing from our from our conversations. And that's on us to ensure that they can feel that that good faith is is two-way. And so I was

012pleased to see that. I think I'd love to make sure we continue that. >> Well said. I remember when I moved from Charlotte to Fulton County and the board at the time, this was a long time ago, 2010, maybe 2011, they used to do these community meetings and at first I thought this is a huge drain on my staff and me to go do all these community meetings. And within a year, I was completely shocked at the level of of attention to the community's needs that my board had. Mhm. >> So I agree with you. We did tend to become maybe more uh you know using electronic spaces where you weren't really able to connect in a deeper level. It was more shallow. >> I I would take it a step further. Those electronic spaces

013in the last five years >> have >> been algorithmically built >> to drive antagonism. Like that is how they're made. And so I I would Yeah. It's it's not an accident that they are the spaces they are right now. >> Yeah. >> Well, and you mentioned trust and trust is the bedrock of everything that you do. If you don't have the trust of each other and if you don't have the trust of the community, nothing's going to succeed. And those community meetings, while they are challenging, making time to go and sit down, whether it's a small group or a large group, it's important. That's part of your role is to be able to to show that you're actively listening and allow folks. Sometimes people just need to vent. They need to say it. They don't

014necessarily expect a response. My husband was in sales for 45 years and he would come home at least three days a week saying host frustrating experience with a customer today. He wouldn't say it quite that nicely, but he would, you know, start venting to me. And I'm the kind of person I want to fix things. So, I would say, "Have you thought about did you try?" And finally, he said to me, "Look, I don't need you to fix it. I just need you to listen to me and let me give it to you. And once I've said it to somebody else, then I can let go of it." I said, "Okay, bring it on." So, sometimes that's going to be your role is to just hear the concerns of the community. >> Yeah. But it's

015an important it's an important component. >> All right, Gina, what about you as superintendent? What's something positive you feel like >> it's happening? Uh the three focus areas that the board charged me to address when I started in 23, they are all moving in the right direction. So our literacy scores are number one in the state across elementary and middle. um CCPI closing the gaps 100 at every school. Um these are the things that ultimately student outcomes along >> and it's not just for the aggregate but it's for the students who have suffered them. >> Excellent. What about as a board member? Um I put here especially as the board chair being able to use resources when needed. I think I get asked questions sometimes and some of that scenario where I don't know I

016don't know if I know the answer u but it's very easy to um call somebody from GSBA or send email or ask somebody who's been in position and get um an opinion. Um I think that's two minutes done. Not every idea or every scenario has a precedent. So right it's just a matter of never been asked that before being able to have multiple resources. Oh, and Carmen, you mentioned something that's important, and that is you're not going to know the answer to everything that's thrown at you. And it's okay to say, "I don't know, but I can try to find out." >> All right, James, >> you guys had some good discussion here. >> He did. We were jumping around, you know, wrote down that I' I've done I'm exhausted. um done a little bit

017better job than I have in terms of individual public outreach and responding to people that I know, you know, they email things like email me individually which is like my biggest four like leave me alone the emails or I hear specific therapist or whatever. with them. Also, like it's good. Um, like someone emailed us that we had that that used the word disdain and I was trying to think of like if I had any disdain and and I decided I did. I have quite a bit for the misinformation that's out there right now. And and I kind of wrote down a list. It's been going through my head of questions. I've called GIMA personally to tell her to be like, "Hey, I just heard we were eliminating the IB contract at the schools next year.

018Is that true?" Like, that's like, "Yeah, that's the most outlandish thing I've ever heard in my life." You know, the someone said that we are that they they heard to good faith that we were absolutely closing two schools next summer and then they told me that Hans told them that two schools be like he did not four schools. >> Yeah. I it's like it's it's been overwhelming but I'm doing my best. Those are just two. But then I mean honestly y'all >> can I can I >> 12 >> can I if you use the word misinformation. I think when when you talk about electronic communication the right term is mal information. >> There's a difference between it being an error >> versus being something that is intentionally fueled to be malicious. And that is a

019difference. And that that is not the fault. I'm not I don't put this I want to be very clear to anybody listening. This is not the fault of our community or anyone in this community. >> Yeah. >> This is the function and purpose of those platforms. >> How about you? Yeah, I think maybe synthesizing what Hun said and James said, I feel like I sometimes wandering because and I'm looking forward to maybe when we revisit norms in January because to the individual outreach, you know, I've gotten mixed messages. So, you know, as an individual, I have no qualms talking to people and they know that. I did it when I campaigned. I did it all fall. I did it when we had community meetings. I run. I stop, hey, did you know that we're doing

020this with I don't have children. I'm like, well, you might want to know. But so the individual discussions are good, but I think we've struggled at times to um define them in a way that, you know, we get to be individuals obviously. Um but then when we're individuals interacting as boardman which is still you know I think something that has to be learned when it's your neighbor um which is different from a constituent you may not know well or you may know casually but I also I think it's just one working in a classroom um for decades. So, as a teacher, as a parent, I guess I tend to be a lot more empathetic because I see so much information being brought to parents that I can understand why they're quick to say, "Wait, I

021heard it was this. I heard it was that." I mean, I I would challenge anyone to look at the number of emails and Google Classrooms and Infinite Campus platforms and Naviance platforms with any parent. I only one shot >> and I still find it overwhelming and you know now the extreme forms of reaction that's different but I I think I tend to look at well if multiple people are safe then as a board member I think what could we do? >> I wish I could tell you you were alone in this communication piece. I looked at thousands of school systems across the country. I I do want to pull something up. So this discussion or the tension that might exist between an individual board member and the collective board. Right. >> Right. That's always going

022to be a tension. That's what democracy is. It's a bit messy. Yep. All right. So we talked a little bit about the positives, some things that we did maybe individually. What about some things um overall in general as a governance team? >> And um James, you said something funny to me on this one since you remember me. What what did you what did you mention on this collective? Something I really love. You said something I thought was interesting. >> You're like, we're not really good at this telling our story, I think, is what you're getting at that. Actually, there are some really good things that uh we're doing, but maybe we're not great at that. We ran quickly to what we think we need to get better at rather than to celebrate or take a

023victory. >> Yeah. Some of my positives I put the in budget presentation but budget itself is excellent. It's gotten so much better. Obviously there's always terms of growth but like how close we are. Fantastic. And then that was also kind of a negative. And then like we're so distracted by crises. If not >> you're so busy putting out fires you don't ever feel like you're getting beyond the the fire line to we're not playing our movie because there are fires in the >> Yeah. Who else? Who else um wants to share something on this one? >> Mine was similar. I think um I think sometimes we and especially in our discussions even in routine board meetings about whatever is the topic the conversation gets dictated by whatever calls the flavor of the minute. So um

024it could be the discuss the questions that we're bringing forth because they are the emails that we've gotten or the questions or feedback that we've got but it really is not the core of whatever the topic is. Um and so then the whole discussion can kind of get uh anchored not weigh down I don't want to say that but it get anchored by that particular uh issue or concern which is valid. If it is a community issue it is valid but it may not be the whole picture. Um and then because of that you only have a certain amount of minutes or hours for a discussion topic or in the whole board meeting the whole story doesn't get told. Um and then I think when that those important pieces have to come up when it's

025time to vote or at the next board meeting then um those pieces appear to be missing and I think that is a struggle. So, I think it's our responsibility to make sure that whatever that flavor of the minute is gets addressed, but then we move on. Um, and I think some of that is a balance with um a little bit of community feedback. I struggle with this. Um, and I think we struggle with it as a as a board team. I think we want community feedback. I even look around sometimes. I see how CAB does it. um if you know how they handle um parentled groups um how they handle surveys um but taking that with the expectation that the final decision still rests with the governance team. How do we implement that in a

026way that it doesn't look like we're taking community feedback disingenuously? Um at some point we still have to make the decision. Um but we're saying that outright the first time. I think we have some areas to improve with that so that our expectations are clear of folks. >> Well, and I think that that's that's a challenge. You have a very engaged community. Not all districts have engaged communities, but Decatur is one of those. You know, you're going to get feedback, positive or negative, from people out in the community. And it's important for the community members to understand. We want your feedback. We welcome your feedback. But at the end of the day, the decision is ours. That's why you elected us. We represent you. And sometimes that's that's a difficult understanding to gather. Bon say

027something out for us. >> Okay. >> I think I I do want in in fairness to the community here. This last board term, we started by swapping out superintendent based on issues that we were seeing within the system. We have pulled out our entire literacy approach and swapped it out wholesale with something new and had to retrain basically everyone all the way through. We have enforced a level of uh educational standards that had never been enforced before. We rebuilt an MTSS system. We built an entire dyslexia program. Uh we are moving forward with a a new early childhood learning center which you know support or not support it is a very large economic decision that we've made. And then very recently we've had a large community conversation about a potential closure of a of a

028of a school. And so like how would the community not be super engaged over that? like it just that that's an awful awful lot of of stuff that that we've done in kind of a short period of time. I think we ought to expect there to be some push back, right? And and I think that one of the things we've done pretty well is pivot where when we've heard that feedback I mean in particularly we're going to talk about this later today but the utilization process the school utilization process I think legitimate feedback came from the community around hey maybe we want to rethink this a little bit. Um, I think making those adjustments when when that community feedback comes in very logically and clear is a is a thing we've actually done reasonably well.

029>> James, >> I just I wanted James to talk about his ninth grade civics uh teacher understanding of democracy. just talking about my ninth grader asking me am I are we a representative democracy. Yeah, it was really funny. They're doing you know civics as part of our curriculum. She came home with like this piece about governance and that sort of stuff and was asking really good questions at a teacher le about like how do you balance hearing from people versus making a decision. She was just like, "Man, I don't think anyone knows where representative democracy today. The world would be a better one. I don't want to overfllight it, but just essentially like, man, it'd be a lot better if people just embraced to realize that. >> Tell you then I emailed her 91." Thank

030you. You know, we don't forget it from 14. It's right on right on queue. >> It's good. >> Yes, ma'am. J, >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> That's right. But um so I'm just going to give one quick for each one. Um, as an individual school board member, I feel, of course, I'm, you know, on my way out, but I feel most confident right now about our positions and my positions on things. and even you know my knowledge like I feel like it took me six years to have a you know a solid understanding of budgets and and things like that you know and so uh whereas there was a time I was like you know it was just seemed overwhelming at the very beginning there was so much to learn and then you know

031I was elected November then it was the pandemic and you know it's safe to you know bring folks back in and things like that um I think as a governance team you know, I think we have some really good conversations. Uh, I feel like, you know, here lately, we've really been hashing things out and I don't feel like those conver since I've been on the board there, that has always happened um on the board and um I think it's a good thing. And then um as a board member, I'm struggling with the communities just distrust and just assuming that we're just up to no good. Like, you know, no one here is going to individually benefit a profit from building early childhood learning center. you know, like, you know, I just I don't under I

032struggle with understanding the the distrust um and the and never assuming goodwill and particularly when people have not been consistently engaged. So might be, you know, I would be like, you know what, I know I haven't been around that long, so let me do some research or let me reach out to the experts and, you know, and not trusting and I I've I've struggled with this before on the board, not on this administration, but you know, there are folks who have a lot of experience in different areas that help inform our decisions and then there are other folks who like have no experience in any of these things, but position themselves like I speak like they're experts and they don't have all of the information. And so, you know, I know there's value to community

033feedback, but there's also value to like this wealth of experience that we have here that we have access to and you know, how do we make them understand that or help them understand that? Tracy, >> I think so. One to Carmen's point, we I believe can do a much better job in explaining what we're getting the feedback from because yeah, there are going to be times at which the governance team is making a decision, but then you need to be clear. We're just letting you give feedback so we can make a >> Yeah. And I so I'm uncomfortable with the idea that in all cases, you know, we're the governance team and this is democracy, right? Um obviously I love the democracy by the way and when people ask I say that's one of the

034most fascinating things to me. Like I love the fact that the board is an elected group, right? You have you have different experiences, different viewpoints, etc. Um, but I still think again we can do a better job so that you know whether it's the public comment survey and it turns out that it really has more to do with people wanting to feel like they know more, right? Which might be different from the calendar feedback survey where effectively are we saying that you know we want your feedback and we'll change that calendar or are we saying we want your feedback and then we'll consider other days. So I just think we need to be really careful about one when we're talking to the community and two talking about the community and talking about feedback that we're

035clearer about what we're asking for and what we're doing with it because I think that would solve a lot of issues. I also want to address I think the point of trust because at times yeah I think there is a lack of trust but at other times I mean what I see is people's children and people's money and I can't imagine two things that would upset people more than wondering about those and so I guess at times and maybe again it's the teacher and me because if I've got 30 kids in the room and they're asking me questions I'm not going to take personally right it it's more like what did I do or not do that is now leading to this and then we can move to the arenas in which maybe some people

036are being unreasonable or maybe some people have expectations the only thing is is that folks have made it so personal like they they say very personal stuff and I'm the only person here who doesn't have a child I'm except for student and so Like like we got an email the other day like you know this is my child. I'm like well these folks are just as invested like they have kids here too. You know I mean I guess that's >> well one of the first things that I faced as a board member was the first weekend before I was even sworn in. I I realized that I had a situation that made me realize no matter what I do, somebody's not going to be happy. I'm not be able to please everybody. And that's my

037focus. I'm a people pleaser. I want I want to bring everybody together. And sometimes you just can't do that. But you like to make sure that people feel like they're heard, they're listened to, even if they you don't end up agreeing with them at the end of the day. So, Hans, you had a a nice list of things that you mentioned that this governance team has done, >> of which were heavy lifts, right? Were those necessary things? Did we need to have a new K through3 reading program? Did we need to have this piece of dyslexia put in? Are are you reaping the benefits of the complexity of doing all of those things? Right? And so I would say the answer to that by looking at your student data is that those decisions were obviously

038good ones because they're beginning to move in the right direction. So to your point about democracy, this is where I think people get so when you think about why it is that that this country in general tends to be in like this $35 trillion in debt. The people who are going to represent um in Congress are thinking about just their constituents, not the good of the whole country, right? And so that's why it gets a little messy because I'm thinking, well, what do the people in my sphere say and think? And then I go and vote based on what I'm hearing in this this year. There's no easy answer. Sorry, James. I I was going on >> Oh, you were good. I was just let the braing change and the attack on the attack on

039DEI that happened in March of your list of six. I take this. It's too much to remember. >> A lot of good stuff I have accomplished and I've done they're hard things. >> Your point, Tracy, I wrote it down. You said I'm uncomfortable that we're the board and then we listen to people and then make a decision. >> Okay, Jade. So now you're going to transcribe what I say, present something fundamentally illogical. >> I'm confused with what you said because I my understanding and I think that there is this big gap. We hear what they say, we take that information into account and we make a decision. Well, actually, if I can answer that one, it's not clear to me at times how we're taking it into account. At times, it appears that we all

040go to a community meeting and we listen. We don't record it. I don't think we have reached out. So, that's one way in which we take the feedback. Um, if we're looking at the budget, I think that city survey form we've used for three years is out and it's a general survey that I myself find. So you and I had a good discussion of the budget because I love that kind of stuff and maybe we don't talk about it enough. The idea that from like a big picture lens here of fiscal responsibility in terms of projecting this amount being within that amount. Kudos. At the same time we are a public entity and we are publishing our different budget buckets for an example. And so what are we asking people as one example when we're

041asking them for the budget feedback? Are we simply asking for your questions if you don't understand or are we asking because we're going to use that feedback to make the decision that democracy allows the five of us to make? >> I'm I'm genuinely asking. >> Yeah. >> How do I let them know? Let the people know that I hurt them because is that what that you're saying? If you said we listen, >> but we don't let them know that we listened. that >> well at times I don't think we do so I don't think at times we report out so I'll go back because it was very important to me I think it was Jana who pointed out that people asked about the public comment survey correct or the public comment time and we had

042a survey I think we did it in a month we had 92 responses and I believe we had 43 to 45 written comments >> and I repeatedly said at that meeting I'm hearing people asking more about how they find out about things and less about people caring whether it starts at 4 4:30 6:30. Admittedly, some people did put that out. And so, it's that kind of thing. You know, I I understand that some people may send an email and they may be angry, but I guess as someone who has taken advantage of multiple opportunities to give feedback, when I see that people have spent their time to give meaningful feedback, I I think we have a responsibility not to just say verbally thank you, but perhaps a responsibility to let people know not just that

043we've read it, but these were the themes or these are the actionable items. If we're going to take it upon ourselves to ask people for their feedback, the question I have is how are we using it? >> I think that's a great discuss that >> publicly, >> right? And it was just a verbal discussion that landed on the time of the public comments that I believe we kept the same for consistency when it came to the 40s something specific suggestions whether it was like a community coordinator or other things. I don't think we acted on that nor discussed any of it. So I guess you and I have a different way verbally I'm sorry in writing of characterizing what we do with it. So if the benchmark is we talked about it at a meeting

044then we did do that. No I thought I think that's a great example. We discussed amongst ourselves should we change this was the problem to solve. Should we change the timing of public comment >> based on community feedback. A couple of community members had come to me directly and said, "Hey, you know, it's at 6:00 I can get there, but it's way after you guys have discussed ABCD and F. So, should it change?" And so, I was like, "Let's add it to the agenda." We added it way in pre-work. We discussed it. There was a myriad of opinions. And so, we were like, "Well, we won't change it." Put it out to a survey. And that survey stayed up for weeks. Now, how many people respond, we unfortunately have no control over. It could be

045one, it could be 500. it was only 90s something and then the skew of people this is with surveys we don't have any control over that either it could be staff it could be parents it could be students we don't know who's going to respond but that's what we got but that's the limitation with survey responses and then I think Amanda compiled them she presented them and we discussed it again and ultimately the overwhelming feedback was to leave it like it was so that's where it is now >> and the discussion was based on responses Like I mean our conversation necessarily what should be done differently in that. >> I think what I don't understand is if the question is simply what time the meeting start then you can have a multiple choice survey but

046if we're giving a survey that allows people to write written responses I think what I'm referring to is specifically to people spending their time to come up with ideas and suggestions. And my question still is then what do we do with those brain things? So yes, we >> How much can you do with how much can you do with it? We we had we made a decision and it it we could only you know we we discussed different options. >> How much can you do with it? I think where I'm landing again is the idea that if we are going to give a box that allows people to discuss things, not just pick which time or pick which thing describes to you, then what do we do with the stuff in the box? And I

047think when you give that type of you're looking for a level of analysis for extract all of the qualitative data and then you code it for themes and that is what >> what was done. I mean when you when you're talking about receiving qualitative data that's what you do >> to analyze it and that is what was done in addition to the quantitative side. So it's a mixed methods methodology that you're approaching survey data and its analysis. I want I don't want it to be argumentative. I genuinely want to know what we should have if this problem comes up again or something similar, similar themes. We put surveys out to Decator a lot. I feel like I I'm I'm even not even the biggest fan of surveys. Uh but we put them out there a

048lot. >> The I mean there's like the the calendar survey is circulating. So what could we do differently like James said to make people realize that we do we can't implement everything. you can't implement every comment to let people know that >> yeah I mean so so to Tracy to Tracy's point that maybe there is a way to read like so the calendar thing is a great example right the the if there is anything that I've learned serving on this board setting up an academic calendar is you know four-dimensional chess right like it's a really complicated it's a very very complicated process and so when We land on a calendar short of enormously transformative like if we missed that a a particular religious observance is on one or something like something where there is a

049must change. The reality is when the calendar is finally landed on it's almost it's very very difficult to change it then. And so, should we even ask a survey at that point? Right? Because because I I think TR where what I'm hearing Tracy say, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying like if we're asking for input, but then we don't act like we ever act on that input, it's sort of sending a bad message to the community about soliciting that input. But and so and so there are times where uh I I think with the the consolidation and utilization process where overwhelmingly we heard the feedback from the community and we are deciding to shift based on that feedback that is structurally different. I mean, I think it's very easy to convey to

050the community, we we've clearly heard you. We're going to change course. Whereas with something like the academic calendar, >> right? Like we're just you got parameters. >> It's just not going to change really. And so maybe there's other ways to communicate it than than what we're we're doing because I do I do understand what what you're saying. If you're asking for feedback, >> you should be prepared to incorporate that feedback into your decision. And if the decision isn't really influencable at some point by the community, then maybe there's another way to communicate it and asking for feedback, right? >> I think you made some good points about the idea of how you setting up the community expectation for how you're going to use their feedback. What will we do with this? I think that's that

051may be a good thing to consider moving forward. How is this going to influence us? Quick example and then we're going to move on. Um years ago we heard from our community that we were not giving enough opportunities for public comment because of the size of our district. So could we set up remote sites so people could come? It cost time. It costs money. It cost staff time. But we said we hear you. We're going to try to make that work. We had three different places, two places besides coming in person to be able to satellite in your comments. We did it for about four months. Nobody came to those remote locations. So after four months, we stopped it and if anybody said something to us about it, we said, you know, we we were

052able to say we tried it. It was not what the community supported. So we decided to do away with it and we never heard anything again. So there may be times along the way where you accept community feedback, you try something, but you're hopefully you're nimble enough to be able to pivot when it doesn't work. So it's y'all are having some great discussion. Um I have other exercises I wanted to do, but I don't I'm not going to take away from time. I wanted to just share with you two things. one one is that um the importance as a board of making sure that once you set a course you're going to go in that direction. So again as an example when Robert was superintendent in Fulton the board said we want eth 8th grade

053to be the uh basis for algebra 1. Algebra one is going to be the online course for eighth grade. And we all agreed, okay, we're going to do that. But Robert said, I am happy to do that. I support you as a board and what you do, and we're going to join link arms and move forward, but you have to realize that >> you're going to come in. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And we've got to hold on together as a group. We've made that decision. If algebra one, our target was by eighth grade, that meant we had to spend a lot of time, money, and energy redoing all of the math sequence >> to get it. >> And you know, they everybody said, "Yes, yes, we want to do this." And then the first time

054somebody from the community came and gave push back, board members would say, "I don't think that we this is a good idea after all." And we had to remind each other, "No, we all agreed to this. We know that this is what's best for students, which should be your bottom line decision always. So, we're going to be moving forward and we're going to, you know, we're going to help support you as as a board member if you're feeling that extra struggle. We're going to we're going to boost you up, but we're all going to keep moving forward. And ultimately, we did that. So, it can be a challenge, but you just got to make sure that you're agreeing to something at the beginning and you're going to follow through with it. um that includes executive

055session, making sure that you honor the the s the sanctity of executive session. There are items that you discuss in there. That's a time where you can be really honest with each other, share your feelings, um make some tough decisions that are definitely um can get you in legal trouble if you if you share them outside of executive session. So it's important to make sure that you hold that sacrain. Any questions? Any comments? Okay, moving right along. As one of my my former foreman leaders like to say, um here are some key indicators of good governance versus management. And these are just I end up giving y'all a lot of things to read. And I don't know if you have time to read them when you leave, but this is a really good article to

056look at and think about for yourself of whether if you look at these columns there are topics um good governance examples and micromanagement symptoms. So how much time have we got? Are we out of 10? >> Yeah, but you can wrap up on that. >> All right. Just real quickly just thinking about on your own time read through this and think about what might be an example of micromanagement specifically as it relates to your board. It may or may not actually be happening, but um if it is, that may be something that you'll want to talk about as a group that you know, I feel like we're getting too much in the weeds when we ask for, you know, five hours of of staff time to get something to because one board never asked or

057that we um find ourselves getting involved in too many operational issues that we don't really have control over. That's the superintendent's job. Dr. Whitaker, did you want to say anything? >> No, I want I want to come in this being reported, right? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> I just need answer. >> So, if you'll if you will, I'd be curious to know if you've got any thoughts about this afterwards if any of you want to reach out to me. And then I have one more um handout. Let's put these with you, Robert. This is just what board members can do to maintain good working relations with each other and with the superintendent. These are just some good tips for you to have along the way. >> Now I'm going

058turn over to Robert. >> All right. Thank you so much. Um you know the the community trusts uh the superintendent and the school board with two of their most precious assets, their children and what was the second one? >> Money. their money. That's right. And so what we need to be able to do is be thinking about what are we doing with that? >> And >> so board members, if if you would a couple things as Julia takes her seat, there is one the signature um sheet going to go around for your training hours and then set and that I still need to sign that one. And then you also have the evaluations. And so we gave you today's binder. So this could go all of what you just received from GSBA can go under

059one and we are now going to move to two. >> Sorry. >> I'm just Yeah, >> we're now going to move to task two. >> All right. Tap two. Again, this idea of we've made some tough decisions. We've invested in new reading codes, etc. Are they working right? And so part of that is for us, we're obligated to use our taxpayer dollars to run our schools as effectively and efficiently as possible. We wish we could do everything that our teachers uh want that our students need, but we've got a certain amount of of resource. And so part of that is really as we think about ROI, what does that look like in the business community? We certainly have seen this modeled um and we're now beginning to think about this for our academic sides. What

060are our needs? Has the staff explored a a wide range of strategies? Does it really nest in our theory of action? And the theory of action is, are we going to run a system of schools or a school system? Are you going to be a charter system? Are you going to be a a traditional system? Um, and then defining metrics for progress monitoring. Sometimes it's leading indicators. Um, and sometimes we look at lagging indicators. and then determining the cost uh and creating a plan. So, we know this that oftent times, you know, we'll have to go back and say if we've got this problem that we haven't able to solve, we might need to think about doing it u in different ways. So essentially what this process does, it's a bit of a if you

061will a protocol or an approach and your staff and shortly will be talking how they've taken this concept and pressed it against some of the work internally. Um why we do it um is because we want to make sure that what we're doing is working and then who leads it. Typically the finance folks and the academic folks work collaboratively with the cabinet and the superintendent to make that happen. So why do we think it helps? Well, it helps evaluate and it helps with um decision making. So we've made an investment. We want to know if it works. We identify more sustainable approaches. Maybe we can um look at at some other districts and how they're handling it. And then how do we wind up communicating that? So to demonstrate effective resource use to the board

062and the public, we need to make sure that we share our decisions, uh that we talk about our budgets and that we look at the academic results. Part of this is a continuous improvement model. Um, GEMA's had great experiences in two large urban systems um, which for many years had been able to have access to um, a lot of rich data and sometimes running a system that's a little bit smaller can be very complicated because there is not an army of central office folks that can build all these dashboards etc. Uh, and so we have to make sure that we use the tools that we have but do so in a very coordinated way. I'm going to pause there for just a moment. I'd like for you to read sort of like the five big

063steps, if you will, on how staff members uh the kinds of questions they pose um while they're building this out. >> Can I can I ask kind of a quote question? >> Yeah. This talks a lot about what the steps are and how you're going to engage in it and >> what is it? >> Yep. We're going to get to that in just a moment. Okay. >> In terms of like how is it presented? >> No. So, uh the terminology is pretty specific, right? Like a return on investment is a very very concretely definable thing. I don't see that same sort of concreteness in this conversation and so I'm just looking for yeah kind of that clear definition of what it means. >> So essentially it is we're making an invest we've identified a problem.

064>> Problem is our high school ELA scores aren't going up as fast as K through eight. Right? So we've identified an issue. We've made a bet. We've decided these three strategies are what we're going to do. These two are for students. This one's for teacher. We exercise and implement those strategies. Then we go back and say, have the investments we've made worked? Which ones worked? Which ones haven't? Can we strategically shed certain things that aren't working and maybe add or reinforce those that we had tested that are working? >> Okay. The staff's going to give you some real examples here of your work. I just wanted to give a clear sense of what the term is. And I I love that. But this is where it always gets stuck. So I heard you say we

065identified a problem either as elementary. So we're now we're making our bet and we're picking two strategies for students and one for teacher. We implement it. But then to Hans's question, what are those concrete things that demonstrate the have they worked? >> Yeah. How would you know that they worked? >> Well, no. More importantly, just to start with, what are we using to decide if they did or didn't? >> Well, this is why you hire professional staff that are reading specialists, that are math specialists. That's not our role as a board. The board is to say the what. >> The staff has to figure out the how, right? And the how is let's look at what the research says, right? We all drank from the Kool-Aid of Lucy Cawkins or whatever that was whole language

066and realized rather quickly that the basics of the science of reading we had lost, right? And so we do look at research, we look at best practices, we look at what other school systems are you're constantly reading about articles and things that uh and sharing thoughts and ideas about that. But that's how we fired the soup and her staff >> to get that help partner. >> So I ask the what? What was being used? >> Okay, we'll get there. Yeah, thank you. >> The board should be asking what. That's your main question, but you can also ask why. Why are we doing this >> and how much is it going to cost? So, so on that third point, um the the the the business world ROI, really the mathematical model for ROI, the amount that

067you put in is measurably benefited by what you get out on the other end. So, you know, >> did I lose money or did I make money? It's very binary, right? this if I'm saying okay lit let's use literacy rather than like okay so literacy as is something that we need to track for you know economically disadvantaged kids right that that's a probably real thing that we're working on >> uh and we we made some changes we put a bunch of stuff in and we're actually seeing the metrics come back very positively so from just a pure academic outcome what we did worked >> but We could have done that for $300,000 or we could have done that for $25 million, right? And so like there isn't the ROI isn't really built into the metric

068clients. This is not, you know, like I I make this pen and I need a 40% margin on it in order for my business to continue moving forward. I'm going to source the components to get that done. This is our best effort. Um, and this model is from ERS and Chiefs for Change. I used uh both of those to create a few slides. It's not uh something that um is going to be as scientific, if you will, as running a business in terms of the dollars. But I do want you to understand that this team is thinking about this work and their investments as they approach them with this model. So, I'm not going to go through this example because we're actually going to go through a real example I had provided when we ran

069a little bit over um with this one. But essentially, these are the essential steps. If we were to use that summer school analogy where I brought these seventh graders in because they were behind um we need to identify the core need and then again mapping this out with a series of questions considering a broad set of strategies. we've made those decisions on what we were going to do um and then how it impacts our efforts. Uh these are the best practices and then the total cost of ownership. So when we go to the CFO and say we want to put in this software, we have to think about the total both direct and indirect costs. Just because you do a summer school program, um you can't just think of the teacher stipen. There's electricity that

070needs to be purchased, maybe transporting students, and then how we plan on spending those. And some of the things to think about here are your startup costs, professional development, any one-time purchases, the sustained cost. This is often overlooked um in terms of new teachers coming in. Let's say you've trained everybody, K3. Well, next year you get 40 new people. Guess what? We have to do the same training again, and it's going to cost us again. uh and then indirect costs as I mentioned with facilities etc. Part of this though is that we build this sort of muscle across the system um so that in every decision that we're making as staff members in particular we're thinking about all right if we put this position in we were talking about communication earlier what's the benefit well

071our goal is that we have higher engagement and the question is how do you know that you have high All right. So, what does this look like as for us here? >> I'll talk a little bit about and I'll be upfront and say we're not yet knocking this out of the park, but one of the things that Dr. Wicker has charge staff will take seriously and develop our skills around measuring return on investment not only for tools, which is kind of what I'm very comfortable with, but also with the in-person programs that we run. You know, Dr. of those I just mentioned for example school and um Miss Bergman we couldn't be here today but she her team and my team have been working together and I just want to give you an update on

072how we're looking at the problems and successes we've had so far and some things that we hope to do in the future and just I heard some of your questions too and I'll try to address some as we as we go along. So first of all good afternoon everyone Dr. Sultan members of the board student Dr. Whitaker um and thank you Dr. for the the big picture around ROI and board stewardship of our district resources. Um for the back half of this agenda item, I'm going to share with you some of the ways we're beginning to develop our fluency around um using an ROI lens for resource allocation. It has thus far been primarily a collaboration between the teaching and learning team and the technology team because as I as I'll speak about it in

073a few moments, we've been using an interoperable data system to ingest a lot of data to run it through the kazoo and see what comes out from the on the other end. Um, most of what I'll speak about is directly tied to organizational effectiveness and excellence because we're talking dollars, time, and using finite resources. But we're using finite resources to move kids. So, as you all know, we're all here for student success in what areas. And so, the guiding question is is really a basic query for us. Do the instructional programs, both digital tools, but also realworld experiences, merit our investment in time and money by yielding quantifiable educational results. And as Dr. just said, when we talk time and money, it's not just the one-time upfront cost. It is the to I love that

074you said total cost of ownership. It means a lot in the tech world, but really it's trimming everywhere. If we're going to instantiate and maintain a program, it has the recurring costs, direct costs, and even indirect costs for time. And for those of you who have been in any kind of training, there are multiple things competing for your time, maybe your attention, just even the mind share for our staff need to be trained and sustained along along the way. And certainly, it's an easy question to ask, but it is often challenging for us to answer. Um and and we're still working our way our way through figuring it out. Um but the rationale to to get into this is is underpinned by three ideas and primarily it's essential to just objectively evaluate instructional programming programs

075using rigorous data rigorous that's new to us in the last few years in CS. Secondly, we want to ascertain whether these programs are correlating with or even directly causing improvements in students learning and achievements, which is after all our mission here. And we want to establish that relationship between cost, use, and instructional impact so that we can better optimize those finite limited resources time and month and to help guide allocation or reallocation of resources from underperforming or redundant programs to areas that demonstrate superior educational returns. Um, we're not new to taking a look and seeing like what are we using and how well are we using it. We certainly took advantage of the pandemic to as Dr. Aosa invoked and you all have heard before switching from being a system of schools to a school

076system. We did that a lot with our online tools. Um and returning from the pandemic, we had also put into place mechanisms to gauge how often are these tools being being used. And over the last few years, it's been relatively easy call to do some callulling of tools that are underused by our students and our staff. If they're not clicking the link in Launchpad, then it's not yielding an outcome and we can reallocate those those tools. Those that's the lowhanging fruit that we've been working through the last uh the last couple of years. But what has been challenging is when you look at tools that have had some degree of use, do those directly connect to the outputs that we're looking for for kids? When kids are students are more than just test scores, they're

077more than just STAR and GMASS. But STAR and GMAS and measures like that are part of what we're looking for when we invest um in resources and programs for for our students. But we don't really have that expertise in house as Dr. said like to build all the widgetry to do that analysis we have limited resources and so one of the things that we did last year we came to you it's been about a year we asked for a mid-year adjustment to enter into a partnership with an entity called level data and uh level data brings both a data system but also staff expertise and they call it conveniently enough the return on instruction engine um to expand our capacity and to shift some of the the load to um to a trusted partner. And

078what level data does is it integrates information about costs of programs, whether it's licensing costs for software, it can pull in um hourly rates for employee time. It can pull in any number of dollars. It pulls in our information from Infinite Campus. So, our student demographics including the their support programs and their act, you know, their their identifying demographics and it's pulling in data such as GMAS and STAR. So far, we're working towards some of our advanced academic um results um for a future iteration. >> May I ask one question? >> You can ask any number of questions, Miss >> Does it include the student growth or is it just the flat score? There is a part of their model that looks at student growth. I don't know that it's the exact model. We think

079about student growth percentiles in Georgia. >> It's not quite that, but yes, longitudinally, it's looking at it for a few of these programs. >> Um, and we're looking at these tools through through a few lenses. One is simply validating student time spent in the troops. um this vendor has access to pull usage data through the APIs uh to look a little bit more objectively than some of the vendors might direct the reports to us in terms of of use data. Second, it's taking a look at the students who are in these tools or in these programs. Are they scoring higher on GMASS or STAR than their students who are not in these programs or not using these particular tools or are they yielding the same results after 20 minutes a week in a program as

080the kids who are in it for 30 or 40 minutes? Can we return that instructional time to the classroom? Hans, you got a question? >> I think I think you answered it. My question was around uh tracking the student use when it's not a tool but rather a program. But but it sounds like you're doing it. I'm just not clear the me. >> So it for the online tools and it varies a little bit by vendor, but >> ignore the online because that's straightforward. Yeah. Right. If it's a program, I don't mean to invalidate >> everything that you do for your job. That's not what I mean. But like so but like if somebody's using an online tool and you know that they're in there using it. If the students are in programs that are

081not online, we are still also tracking the amount of time and yeah. Okay, that's where >> the amount the amount of time it depends on the inperson program like if we're tracking seat mass is certainly we can compare between students say like in the treatment group and not in the treatment. Yep. >> Yes, that absolutely does that. >> So two other what I love this um and then please tell me if this is part of my problem and where I'm going. I just can't unknow what I know. So two questions. One, does it also look at which I'm guessing level data couldn't do but maybe inhouse when it's assigned? So if I assign students an assignment in that program, it's going to be used, right? I mean, does that make a little bit of sense

082versus a program or a tool that students are seeking out optionally? >> Um, so that's one thing. And then because I think where I'm going with that one, but I guess you're seeing the data over here is I could assign it. You open it up and you know you're playing video games over here. I'm not even sitting in class per se, but and then the second thing which I'm pretty certain I know the answer to, but I'd love to see is that tutoring component. So you I think a few people have emailed about this and I know the school does the high school does great things. I don't know about the elementary and middle school things, right? whether it's school-based tutoring, wind time, or private tutoring. Is any of that in there? Right now, it's

083pretty much the hard data you can get. >> I see the word tutoring on page five. I'm on page four when we get here in a couple of minutes. Your first question about whether a whether a tool is prescribed versus kind of optional. >> That's a parameter that we share with our partner. >> Okay. And one of the things they look at particularly for prescribed tools often when instructionally if we prescribe a particular tool we'll also prescribe a minimum number of minutes a >> right like what's the treatment duration I'm sorry to sound clinical about it but >> um and I'll speak to an example of how we've benefited from some feedback on that in just a few in just a few moments. So we're looking at time and tools. We're looking at um whether

084we see at least a correlation. students and instruction are super complicated and we don't have the the the clinical environment to do a controlled AB trial, right? There are any number of other things that are influencing kids, but we can at least start with of the students who are using a particular tool or in a particular program, are we seeing a difference in outcomes for those students who are not using a tool or not using it as long or not in that particular program? And one of the things I want to spotlight about this partnership is too is I mentioned this bringing in additional information from Infinite Campus. And so if we have the ability to zoom in now to see are our students who are being supported by an IEP or a 504 plan

085as participatory in a program particularly online tool as students who are not part of that program or we can look at other programs are in. We can look at demographics to see if we have an equity of access or an equity of participation gap that we can again use to make decisions to support all our kids. This is another way to look at it. And I've really put this up here for that that middle whoops that middle piece again where we're looking at fidelity of administration and equity gap particularly between some. So, what have we actually found so far? This goes a little bit into the what I think a couple of you were asking for. We brought this to you initially as a mid-year adjustment last year. Took us a while to get integrations

086up and to be in coming up with essentially a tiered list of what are some of our more expensive programs online or in person and how do we just want to start and getting used to the back and forth and flow. But some things that emerged early um and that were reflected even in the budget setting for this fiscal year. Um accelerated reader is a tool that was both underused and students who were using at a very high rate were not seeing um marketkedly significant differences in STAR and GMASS than students who were under utilizing it. And I'll tell you th that is an example of a program where the professional staff and even teachers in the building had a gut check that AR might not be worth the time. But having the substantiated third-party

087data to back it up is tremendously valuable. It was as valuable as recently as last week at a teacher meeting where a member of the um teacher advisory council was asking about the disposition at accelerated weer and Dr. Winter was able to invoke. We had someone from the outside take a look at this and it is not worth the investment and funds and time because it's not making a difference. Um similarly discovery ed although um beneficial and we see we believe contributing towards student success for some of our younger students underutilized not necessarily used with fidelity with some of our older students. We reduce the scope of discovery ed going into this budget year um at the secondary schools and likewise freckle. Freckle is an interesting example and Miss Anderson I think this might come

088back to one of your questions. It's been a prescribed tool and we had said students should be in this school for 30 minutes a week. There might not be the exact number, but that's kind of an example of um we saw that for our middle and our high school kids one the follow through on the student end was they're not in front for 30 minutes a week by large swaps but of the students who were in it or in it for more they were not deriving higher scores or grades in the math and ELA pathway pathways it was meant to support no more worth their time. Um, we also got an inkling that students who might have been in that tool for 20 minutes were being as successful as students who were in it for

089that third full 30 or 35 minute treatment. So, we were able to go back to instructional approaches and say, you know what, looks like you can cut that back. >> And 15 minutes over time is returning it's a suspension of time, but it is returning time to the classroom for all the other things that we're trying to do with our with our kids. that. So, how do you distinguish? So, something like Freckle, where you're saying the test group that used it a fair bit did not have higher performance than the control that didn't use it. >> How do you delineate whether the test group that used it did better than they would have had they not used it? Right? Like, so there's two there's two metrics. the longitudinal performance of the student and the absolute

090performance of the student versus the control. Are you looking at both or in this case was it really only that >> I believe level data is looking at from both directions but let me but let me take your question back to them because we have a cadence with them and we can circle back and get you a little more >> and then the second question is so totally get you dropping the stuff that had really no significant impact on students but the stuff that has a good discovery ed I think you used it as example has a good impact it's just not used enough how do you make the decision that we're going reduce it versus we're gonna double down and push it, right? Like how do you >> like tremendous question and that goes

091to I think kind of the broader picture of even going back to I think the question you asked Dr. OSA is like starting with what problem we're trying to solve. >> Mhm. >> And this was a relatively new tool going out to secondary. And so from a from a change in management perspective and a readiness perspective, it was a swing in the miss because we did not see the use with fidelity that had been planned for at that grade level. And so and we were not in a position instructionally to go back and say we're going to double down on it to try to increase adoption at this point. We didn't want it to sit there being stagnant also. So >> it was a judgment call about you what's the best way to use you

092know limited kind of bandwidth for taking on new things. So that might be something that teaching and learning returns to in the future, particularly as some of those younger kids metriculate up. >> Um something, this is more of a comment than a question, but like adding on to that, I feel like um I I really I I did see that switch from um like going going from elementary to middle school that we stopped using tools like that as much. Um, but I still see even if even if we're focusing on like higher skills like essay writing and critical analysis that a lot of students still lack like vocabulary skills because they're not doing like weekly vocabulary and they lack like spelling skills and we've like seen this decline in like in those skills. Like I

093was even reading this article about like I think it was UC UCLA or some something where they're starting to introduce like remedial classes with like eighth grade math and eighth grade like elementary literacy. Um so I do want to dive a little deeper into how that like if we're using where where those tools could come in in 612 and like enforce those skills. Great question and I don't I don't have like the thorough answer to you in the moment around two adoption. I will go ahead and plug that when you talk about students you know walking across the stage or entering into a high school at a deficit. One of the best ways for us to close that deficit is to start as early as possible such as fresh out of the womb and early

094childhood education which you all have heard but that is it's true. You're going to skip it. That's that is one of the reasons Nia because I don't think you live it directly but you have friends and other students whom you represent who we wish we had this program that we're building in the next >> unfortunately we have 12 years of students teach >> absolutely >> so um one of the things uh Miss Burson I don't know if she said it or was about to say I think she said it at the last meeting and she she talks about how we have strategic staffing where we have someone who actually is going over to the high school to fill the gap specifically with students who do qualify for remedial education program. So RE is what it's

095called here in Georgia. And so, not only is that a class that's in the actually on your schedule, but we have strategic staffing where people where there is a person assigned to >> I I do agree with that and I think I think remedial things are really important, but I also I'm kind of thinking of um it feels really general like it doesn't feel like it would be a minority of students. It feels like a lot. Like even my my lit teachers have started implementing like weekly vocabulary quizzes where they give us like 10 words and we have to learn them and do them and that seems like something I probably would have done more in like elementary school than now. But it's been really helpful for people. So I wonder like I think just

096spending five minutes on like a vocabulary or spelling thing just to reinforce the skill. I think that's really >> I was gonna say and you know Dr. or somebody from admin can jump in, but a lot of those tools are also driven by like the standards and so spelling is not in the standards after a certain grade level. >> Um, and >> and part of what you are talking about is really what Dr. Rosa really started with there was a time in which we were focused on a lot less around the science and the way you have to decode to learn to read. And so you were more so looking at a predictive text of you know brown bear brown bear what do you see? I see such and such looking at me. But when

097you look at that book and look at that picture we can you can guess that's called a predictive text we have moved to the codable text and so now we have to fill the gap with the students at large yes but also there are some and that's where our data in our CCPI tells us that's why when we looked at economically disadvantaged students on ELA reading at or above grade level when I walked in at the high school is at 34%. Economically disadvantaged now is at 66%. It takes time and we got to do it wholesale tier one but also we have to really target to fill the gap. >> So I I'll make one comment there. So we cannot unlike some in the business world control variability. The parents send us the best they

098have. You've got one child who shows up reading before kindergarten even starts and you've got a child who are teaching them uh colors and numbers. Right? So that wide range of variation the teachers have is is complicated. So it's not as clean. And then also that's one of the reasons why we layer interventions. Yes. because we are not 100% sure unlike a medical doctor who might be able to isolate uh certain um pieces it's difficult for us to isolate them. Um, I just have a for for tools like and I was just reading ahead. Sorry, I'm cheating. >> For things like accelerated reader or discovery ed um how are I I don't know if I was quite clear, but how is it determining that they're underused? Is it that the teachers don't feel like it's

099worth it? So then they're not pushing the kids into that particular tool or is it that the kids are not um you don't have especially something like AR enough kids that are able to qualify for that particular tool. So or is it both? Um, >> in some cases the vendor will say like here's a recommended way to like a recommended minimum number of like an IR will say you need to do 45 minutes twice a week. If you do anything more than that, you're wasting your time. If you do anything less than that, it's not going to be as effective. And we take that >> and I would say AR really goes against um the science of >> in their methodology. It is around leveled reading which is similar to your fontus and panel levels

100not necessarily around the decodable text and where you are in progression step >> these other things seemed a little bit more straightforward like on the next slide that >> yeah and we and we take those recommended minutes with a grain of salt to see kind of what are our students actually in when we look at our data we we see generally like big spikes of usage like this is popular with students and staff and well supported the teachers are well trained and so on what we see very minimal they tend to jump out to they tend to jump out to those those we're looking at that that user space is >> I guess this is in the context of the budget but it started with I think a collaboration between tech and teaching and learning

101>> so I'm inferring that ultimately the school district would know exactly how many minutes or hours each school day a student is on a screen whether it's accessing discovery ad or Google classroom or infinite campus or accelerated reader. >> We we log everything at a very we log most things at a very granular level. There is combining that to like answer like how many minutes like by grade level might be harder than by kid for like and that has more to do among other mainly with content filters which is evaluating all traffic in in apps. >> Mr. Qu I'm realizing we're going over time. I can wait for you. >> Um there were some inerson programs that we ran for the machinery too. Um, one was our extended day tutoring, which is one of the

102tutoring programs that might have been on your mind. Extended day tutoring has existed for many years. Um, I believe at some point after I began it became a bit more centralized, uh, and kind of run through the Wilson Center. When we looked at students who were participating in the extended day tutoring program, that model though, uh, they were getting the same scores, the same grades as students who are not participating. And so the reiteration that the teaching and learning team conceived um was to take a portion of those funds and reallocate them to the schools to let schools and staff who know these students and more directly knows these students needs be better redesign it at that level. But isn't that pretty clearly an example where the kids that would not have had the tutoring

103would have done worse without the tutoring? having the tutoring and doing as well as the kids that didn't have the tutoring sounds like a successful program in that case, not a loss. >> I don't know. I don't have the fluency on on EDT. >> Sorry. >> Um and then the National Summer School Institute was a program to try to bridge or accelerate algebra achievement for some of our students. >> Um and we didn't see the turnable gains around algebra for those students either. So, we've cut it as we learned this coming summer. We're still we're in the midst of doing a couple of big other lifts right now, but two kind of high dollar um products that are under review now. Uh one, we're continuing to examine freckle and we've fairly well made the determination

104that we're going to eliminate freckle as an ELA and math ELA and math pathway tool at the middle and the high school um to the tune of about $82,000. and formative is formative actually is not part of the level data piece but just zooming back in what we have already done like we just check on whether we're deriving what we need to from these tools formative is highly uninteropable um and it's being supplanted by DNA so when we think about what is effective to have in our toolkit as a district we don't need two massive formative assessment tools uh we don't want to have teachers who like straddling multiple curriculum teams one team uses this one team uses that DNA pull in at New Climber. I just saw it integrated this morning. Blew my mind.

105Um and so we're ditching the one that we have matured beyond because it no longer fulfills our needs. Um one thing to note just because I've I've put up here some examples of dollars that have been saved the cost of the level data partnership itself. So take away is $37,000 a year. Um we've worked with them now for two years. We're taking a look at what return on investment for the partnership itself looks like to us. This might not as we go into future budget cycles, this might not be an every year type of dealing. Um, and it comes, you know, as we go into this year's budget season, particularly for online tools, uh, which are predominantly made for a budget that I Shepherd, everyone's coming with answers to how do we measure outputs at

106the end, um, to help us prepare for what a feature evaluation for the school tools would like for that. Oh, thank you Davis. Did you all uh finally look at read 180? >> Read 180 is still in our environment I believe as a tier 2 or tier three intervention. Yes. >> And so it has not topped up yet. We've got a very long list and I'm sure it is on there some I think it had been more broadly used perhaps even as a tier one tool at the middle school some number of years ago but it's been supplanted by other resources. So it's somewhere in our environment. I don't know where it is on that list. Um and coming up from the balance of this year, um these are three additional online tools. Um BrainPOP

107is my daughter loves Brain Pop, but whether but whether Brain Pop is helping her better understand particular content areas, we want to take a close look at that. Cognity, Miss Botcher, you spend any time in cognity in your IB classes? >> Um yeah, when it comes to time, >> you have got the time. IB uh oh sorry cognitive is essentially the IB program set across multiple content areas um and then nearpod is another content delivery tool and we're also going to put the summer school program through those lens and that's a that's a complicated film because you know Dr. kind of invokes summer school as an exercise. It's not just licensing costs. It's it's the cost of set and time, electricity and transportation and so on. Um, >> sorry. So maybe I'm inferring again is

108like a a thing that the cater sought out which would be for IB which is different from like ADP classroom, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So IB doesn't offer >> IB doesn't have it. There are a lot of things in the IB space like that are quasi monopolies. Um I can view this kind of one of them. Just one other consideration when we think about costs and ROI you know for the most part when we think about licensed tools they are licensed per student doesn't matter what campus the students are sitting in >> but we do have a few online tools in our environment both instructional and a few operational where we pay school >> and that is like that's another cost of making these decisions. And so this is about $57,000 of of tools

109that have something some part of the bill that is tied to individual campuses. One of the things we've been working on with these vendors because very few of them are new to us is trying to you know leverage our long-standing relationship to shift them away from a sitebased model. Um, we've had some successes with a few with a few. Um, but these are still some outstanding ones. And I won't dwell too much on this very last one, but just another component, and this veers not so much in as much ROI, but risk management is we increasingly see consolidation in the online learning tool space. And so on the one hand, it's great to have simplified vendor management, but putting all your eggs in one basket um has some jeopardy for us too. you think about

110data privacy encryptions or outages like Cloudflare experienced this morning um and no one could get into Canva. So um but that's probably more a conversation for another time. I'm happy to take any follow-up questions you have. I've got a note so you have some questions about the two dimensionality of that evaluation of like >> Dr. Sultan >> very quickly um does the teacher advisory council get looked in for some of these things like cognitive need for IV before they are eliminated in total or did you just look objectively know that y'all appear to not be using it so >> so it came up incorrectly and not intentionally at last week's and there's a and we have a process that we've worked on over the last few years of of the communication timeline and the process

111to communicate to any number of school leaders Here's what setting tools looks like. There's probably an opportunity to make tech might be on there. If it is not, I think that probably makes some sense and we can work together. We usually make those decisions about January for um your hands. >> Um that kind of answered one of my questions. I also appreciated you saying that um like we won't completely refresh every year because I know like it can be a whiplash on students and teachers to be changing. Um my other question was um kind of you mentioned like redundancy and I guess that kind of ties into you know if we're covering all the ground and if um we have a tool for the like gap we see um and so like you know if

112we're cutting I remember doing accelerated reading reader and I remember you know that's what kept me accountable and like making sure I was reading books and understanding them but obviously if it doesn't work it doesn't work. Um but I was wondering if there's any kind of breakdown um of like which tools address which skills and like where those redundancies are. >> Yeah. And that has increased as we go to acquire new tools and we take a look at the life cycle tools we have. Mapping goes back to standards and content area has been we we've been doing that for a couple of of years now. Easier to do when we're looking at a new adoption but work in progress. Sorry. >> Uh so just quick set of first of all this is basically a databased

113way of doing zerobased budgeting. I mean that that this is what you're doing. So you're doing data to identify what to call because it's not working. Um I think there's opportunities to leverage teachers to identify the likely targets. My bet is that the teachers know before the data even shows what's working. Like you gave us one example, but my my bet is that that teachers are probably a really good source of a look at this program. I don't think it's it's working. >> We we've been working through instructional coaches this month to do that. >> Surface some of that. >> Uh then the last one is this was a lot of cost reductions based on this, but I would assume that there are places you're wanting to double down. And so it would be interesting

114to see the slide of where you're actually increasing investment because the program worked well enough that you wanted to expand it. >> Yeah, absolutely. Or there might be things like new initiatives or new or like higher effect size. as we get further into the budget season and we bring particularly increased asks I'm sure we'll service that through that process. Thank you all for your indulgence and your time. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Uh, >> I think you want to take a just a quick bio break, 10 minute break. >> Come back. >> Five minutes. >> Seven minutes. said number Thank you. resources. >> Good afternoon board chair Dr. Sultan, vice chair, other members of the board, our student representatives and our superintendent Dr. G. Today I am presenting the FY26 first um exactly first

115look which marks the third year of our compensation reform within the five-year strategic plan. This presentation tells the story of where we began in year one of the all indicator strategic plan and how far we have moved the district in such a short time. our proposed uh our proposed priorities as we continue our journey toward the top quartile in compensation in the metro area. As a reminder, total compensation includes employer contribution to state health, TRS, Medicare and Social Security, and our employer paid portion to healthcare venues. This work directly aligns with our strategic accelerators cultivating and retaining high-quality professionals which includes compensation, career development and full aligned hire to retire experience. All right, this is a visual journey of our rising yellow line and year one. We started >> our teachers well I'm sorry it

116showed that our teachers ranked eight out of nine in the metro area districts in salary only for entry level our minimum salary was at 50,947 significantly behind in compared to other districts but we set a bold goal to be in the top cile in total compensation by FY20 uh In year one, our total compensation, we were placed in the lower third core child in the metro area. These ranks clearly establish the urgency for a comprehensive reform and served and this served as the baseline for our long-term strategy. In year two, we made a significant move. Our entry level salary rose to 57700 shifting CSD 10 from 8 to 7. A very slow rise of the yellow bar, but we were moving toward being more competitive. In year two for total compensation, it shows our investments

117toward being in the top three among metro area districts and across most uh decree degree levels, demonstrating a strong return on investment in momentum toward our goal for FY28. Also included in your packet, we do have the rankings from all year, all um year one, year two and year three. And then also the rankings of our admin uh district administrators, which includes our deputy superintendent, our assistant superintendent, executive cabinet, as well as principles and assistant principles, which we all sit at the bottom of the rankings. where we are now for the FY26 teacher salaries. for in FY26, the yellow bar rises just slightly a little bit more into um 59, which is showing a more competitiveness in our composition despite other districts giving um despite other districts not giving uh salary increases maybe only steps.

118Our new entry level is 60,8 placing the district at 599. This is our strongest position in three years. >> Yes. Can just ask one because I saw this in our packet. I understand in the minimum column, but in the maximum column, we're lower than Marietta. So, how are we ranked higher here? >> This is for entry level. So, this is showing Houston. But when we're talking about the ranking, we're always talking about the entry level salary >> for total compensation. Most notable, the yellow bar is at the top of the rankings. CSD is now ranked number one in the metro area districts for entry level teacher total compensation for both bachelors and masters of grades. This is a significant accomplishment and thank you to the board. This conflines our compensation strategy is working, is targeted,

119and is producing measurable results. So, I wanted to show where we are here in the metro area districts um comparative to other districts who gave salary increases and the ones who did not. Um I just wanted to highlight that CSD we were the highest uh we gave the highest increase in among area districts. Only five districts provided salary increases and only four districts um they gave no increases with just a step. This increase again was against all the economic uh standout in the tightening of the economic markets where districts held flat um on their >> toothbrush. So just to be clear here because this is where I think it gets confusing. So you have Cobb, Dicab, and Rockdale not giving a salary increase. But if the district gave a step increase, that's not identified as

120a salary. >> That is that is a longevity step. So basically, you're not holding someone to your the same step if they increase in years of service. >> But it so like again, if like I got a step increase in the cap, that wouldn't be considered a sal. That is correct. Okay. I think that answered the the 4% is a combination of a cola and a salary, right? And so the well no >> specifically a cola and a raise was what we did in that 4% but like 3% was a raise and 1% was a cola or maybe it was the other way around. >> I can't remember. Okay. Just trying to make sure I write the right. >> All right. some highlights from uh the FY 26 year and then over the the course

121of our journey throughout the lead time the strategic plan. So, we have continued to give competitive increases when those districts did not. Over the two years, the last two years, our entrylevel teachers have increased over $10,000 and we have made sure that we have strategically staffed in a way that is student focused. So, if you look at that, like I said, over the over the course of two years, u we've gone from 57 to 60. That was just from last year to this year. And then our non-teering positions, they have had a minimum of 5% with a step. I'm sorry. Can we go back to that one slide because there just so many numbers I want to make sure I'm right. Okay. So the third bullet for teachers an average 7% for all steps on

122the so is the 7% now taking the 4% and the step increase and that's an average 7% increase in >> okay so then when we move to the non-eing it's a minimum of 5%. So now if we go back to the third bullet, it's possible that some teachers had a greater percentage and some teachers had a lower percent, >> right? Because remember our salary scales do have the the same amount between steps >> and so it it varies in the amount. So depending on where you are on the salary scale depends on what additional increase you got with each step. So then from the last slide all teachers got 4% and then some may have gotten five to seven or five to higher. >> Every teacher got a minimum of 4%. Every teacher also got

123a step. >> The average for that is seven. Which means some tail is higher. >> Yeah. >> All right. So looking at the um estimated cost of giving two options of all staff getting a minimum uh percentage increase. And so right here with all of our salaries we are sitting at 62 million now at approximate salary. So if we propose a 2% increase it will run us about 1.2. If we give a 3% it's running about 1.8. And again, this is salary only all staff before any of the level sets that I was talking about >> and this is just teachers. This is al also >> so I think I understand that now because I I think my issue is the teachers that are continuing to fall in the fourth and continuing to be the

124lower percentage. So if >> you go I don't know if we have those. >> So what if you go back to here to to the right? >> Yeah. >> You see where even in the middle of the your careers from 12 and even at the end >> we're like you said at at four. But when you go here >> this is year two. >> What is year three? So year three, you see that we have either maintained or we're having that that increase. This was one of the lowest that we've had and I think we've had significant increases and and strides in this area and making sure that we are being competitive. If you look at it in closely in your packet, we are not probably within maybe two to three,000 if we go up

125to another uh ranking. Yeah, I think I'm just trying to get to like 2% for all staff. some teachers got 4% in the staff and then other teachers got more and so will that level setting because I think I asked this last year when you start looking at teachers with certain years and degrees they seem to be plateauing and and so that goes into if we ever get to the equal amounts between the systems because whenever you get to more at 25 26 30 you're you're staying the same for two years and so that was one of the things but it also cost um you know a significant amount to to uh even out the steps. >> I heard Wood speak today from WA. Of course he has what he wants but I don't know

126if that's going to be supported. So that they came before you two years in a row, but I just with the Charles amount it is a lot to to to make sure I understand this this is where I'm a little bit out of my depths but for so I understand while we look at entry level and I understand you know with bachelors and masters at entry level are at the top of the table is it possible to move other buckets higher Well, instead of a flat increase across all levels, are you able to start specifically targeting tiers that you want to move up or does that start getting into a step conversation into? >> It does. And you start compressing your percent. But like I said, if we're able to probably at the end of

127the scale create the every year step instead of every other year, that would combat with that as well. >> And it'll start moving that second column and third column up. >> Okay. >> And did we have a conversation about the rankings of the principles and then chiefs? >> We didn't have a conversation. I just wanted to have that you have a visual of where we are um executives and and the principles and agencies. >> There's a a lot of conversation in the community about the percentage increase of administration, graphics, things of that nature. You still need to know that with the treatment that has been done over the years where the rankings are for your administration. >> Well, I mean the princ the I mean just looking here the the principles principal I middle elementary

128they still look like they're in the bottom quartile here. >> They are in the Is it not a reasonable thing to address? >> I mean, I guess the question I have though is yeah, there's no disputing that, but if you look at the day's work, the days are different. So then you look at and where does that factor in? So I believe we and Clayton have the fewest number of days. Wette works almost a month more. And so unlike the teacher where I think teachers across the metro are pretty much still at 190. So I think the number of work am I misreading this? Like >> but if you look at the high school principal it's a difference of 239US 225 that's like what 14 days and it's a $50,000 difference. Um, I mean you

129can do the math down to like actual hour days per hours per I mean dollars per day I guess. >> Yeah, it's about I mean I think it's worth looking at. It's just also worth recognizing that there is a difference in the number of work. >> It should we should we should see this data normalized for the number of days. That would answer both questions. I mean I just ran a couple of calculations. We're still in the bottom quartile even if you normalize it for the days. We should >> we should look at it. >> So you want another column that would set that would provide for you the daily rate >> effectively the daily rate. >> The daily rate. >> Y >> is it proportional to the amount of students they're serving though like

130a high school principal like AP versus a high school principal? >> It's an important point. Um, which is why I think when we start taking a look at this, instead of saying, hey, at an executive level, at an assistant superintendent level, instead of comparing to APS or Fulton, we need to be looking at Marietta, but actually Marietta is at the top of the table in most of these rankings. And if we are competing with the same sort of rough complexity, that's where we ought to be looking. I feel like that's probably a valid conversation to have maybe the assistant or the associate superintendent because sometimes they're covering like 20 schools at once versus maybe our superintendent are covering you know four to five but a middle school principal I feel like we should or high

131school principal we should at least 2,000 students still 2 a little closer than we are >> exactly >> I just didn't want that I didn't want us to not even bring it up you >> yes and the the number of students are similar in your high school and middle school. The number of students in your elementary school is very different. Uh knowing that the complexity or subject matter expertise the subject matter expertise in a smaller district is required to be at a greater depth because you have less people able to do the work. So I often say I don't have the horses in the stable. I am the horse. And that's the difference because I've lived both both worlds. You know, I probably need the math class being tuber help where I'm getting high fees

132and maybe I just have to sit at home with longer. So if I go back to the teacher total comp because I know one of the issues I thought for our district was the fact that we pay in social. So you know I look here and I see back to just the teacher the blue the blue all the way down right or blue or the middle column. So Decatur is above Mara city for the newest teachers of the peers. But then when we start moving to the green or above and then we go down again. So now when I come over here to the associate assistant and she the first page is just that and then the second page is factoring in social security. Yes. And there. Yes. The total comp. So you have salary,

133salary, total comp, total. Okay. The big takeaway that I see is that we have done fairly well visav teacher salary, but there is work still to be done, particularly with some of our more experienced teachers, but we're competitive. right? >> We really are not competitive uh at an administrative level and and we need to be looking at that as well. >> So as a takeaway to do another breaking with the daily weight those Yeah. So, so that you're apples in terms of >> Is it possible to also I feel like we last year because I was looking at the November board of the trade stuff yesterday and this morning. Can we also see which districts I think we had an asterisk at the pass? So, which districts are paying into social security and which aren't?

134This is our district and >> Clayton called >> and just because this has come up I think I've heard community members ask once you start paying into social security you cannot opt out of it we can't like a teacher can't one day decide I don't want to pay anymore that's the first thing right and then the district cannot decide we couldn't decide as a package to decide that we want to pay teachers more we cannot as a unit decide we want to opt out Yeah, correct. Thanks so I I want to kind of capitalize I think on what Hans was asking because the way I'm reading this and correct me if I'm wrong until we have the numbers you know we may have gotten an influx of experienced teachers new to Dear but if not

135the teachers that have been committed to Decar with years experience and perhaps degrees may have not been benefiting from this compensation package overhaul the last two years at the same rate as others. >> Um, no, no. I mean, we we >> I mean the new >> everybody everybody at the start of this process beginning or experience were kind of at the bottom of the table. >> Everybody has moved up into the top quartortile now, right? Um, but the newest uh teachers coming in have gone to the very top of the table. And and what I think I'm seeing is that's great. Let's look at what we can do to now move the other the rest of the more experienced teachers. They have moved quite a ways off the table, but let's get them looking like

136our earliest students. And >> and so that goes to our internal processes too, our own salary schedule. Yeah. >> Can you go back to year one? I can't read those numbers, but the >> follow the yellow. >> Yeah. One more >> there. So, we're just talking about our teachers with a with a doctorate. So, Decator City in year one. What's that number >> right here? >> Yeah. To the left. >> No. >> So, brand new. We just hired someone in their beard. They've got their doctorate and they want to start teaching for the first time. >> Exactly. >> What's that number? >> 67. 67 and 76 now. So that's a that's a nine. And then what the second one for me? >> 81422. So that's up 17,000. And then your one for So that one's

137101 >> 1017 >> and it's 113. >> Okay. >> So it's not small, right? Like these are these are sizes and little bits. I think the biggest thing is maybe some of the other jumps have because they've done percentage base with these bigger numbers the other school districts are kind of staying above us but that so for example what's the we're at 60 now we were at what for >> 5947 >> okay >> wait a minute so that that's where so you're saying that in year one there was a teacher making 5947 and >> year one >> what's that number 50,000. That was You said 50. We heard 59 for That's not >> Yeah. So, first year teaching certificate as a bachelor, they've gotten $10,000 more. First year doctor, they've gotten 9,000 $9,000 more. The

138PhD in their 15 years, $12,000. I think it's been a stride like I said over the last two three weeks. >> All right. Any question before I go past this is the salary only towards the two% or two. All right. some other support staff that we were looking at because we have looked at different categories throughout the 15 years. And so looking at the support staff of our bus drivers and school managers. So our bus drivers currently rank six out of nine salary. Their entry rate is $21.52 which lags behind several of our peer districts that are above $25 an hour. It is proposed that CSD increase the competitiveness of the job of the bus drivers to better align us with surrounding districts and remain attractive to in this. So the two options that we

139are proposing option one is a $1.50 50 increase which is $23,338 of a level set amount before they get the cola in step. Option two will be a $2 um per hour increase which is 31108. Again, this is before this is 11% before the call increase and the step. >> What would it cost to give her the $25 an hour base rate? That's a lot for you to do on the top of your head right now. >> We'll run the numbers. >> I would be like we're at 21 down at six in the table, but four of the districts are at 25 or higher, including comparable districts to us. I think 25 is a number I'd be interested in. >> Okay. >> I mean, what we're saying right here, a buck 50. So each 50

140cents is so it's going to be in a $50ish,000 range. Um, >> I will say I I do have a >> um for I did run about $4. >> Okay. >> Um, and that will be close to 75 >> 75. So 75 is kind of the upper end because that would put us at >> 25 and a half 26. >> Each each 50 cents is roughly what? $8,000. So that'll put us in the mid60. Okay. Mid60 range. Okay. >> And we also while we were looking at transportation, we did look at the the bus monitors. Um we did this current year we increase their hours um per day and so of course that increased their annual amount. So if we it was proposed not to give the bus monitors. They were very competitive in comparison

141to other districts. also increasing them would compress their salary into the par professional salary scale. So it was recommended you know to make them pass >> in my oneonone I asked uh Dr. Whitaker about that and um you know if there were things that we could do to help because I think in some situations our do pair professionals ever serve as as bus aids? >> Very rarely because we are full staff now. Okay. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not sure they've ever had that that modeling, but right now we are staffed. So the need >> Okay. Cuz I was just wondering if we can if there were ways that we can help uh bus aids um work towards their accreditation to become pair professionals. And the way they would help prepare us become teachers. Um

142and so that was something I mentioned. >> There you go. The career pipeline work is another one of the yeah bullets on the strategic plan which is what we're always trying to innovate on is it's how can we ensure that we're able to support who wants to go to their next step and bring in a like-minded organization to help us do that. And so >> and and I guess this is maybe a whole another conversation, but I think a bus sake could use some of the training that our pair professionals get because of >> working with children. Yeah, >> you're working with children no matter what. So yes, um and also the ways in which we provide or the content of professional learning we provide to all employees. We focus very heavily around the way

143in which we support our certified staff. We have some things that are in the works. We're not ready to say yet, but they're in the works on the way we are going to begin supporting our trades people and other individuals who are not certified staff but helping them see progression in their career. And so that's what it means that we fully focus on high quality staff, not just teachers. >> We purposely included transportation in those >> in those meetings. So we're working on a strategy. >> Can I can I ask a quick math question? >> Um the bus drivers all make the same amount. Yeah. >> Yes. And there no change in the number of bus drivers that we're assuming. So why would a $4 increase not just be double the cost of the $2

144increase? Why would it not be $62,000? >> That is >> is there some kind of multiplier or other factor that's in there that we're not we're not seeing. >> Right. Exactly. So we were looking at some variable because it doesn't always go all the way down to the the 22 year and so when we were looking at all of that we also proposed um I think it was an increase in the hours if you will. So we were looking because right now with the state it is six hours and so increasing because we have another scale that is a eight hour scale for a bus driver too. So we were trying to look to see just kind of play around with the numbers of the number of hours worked and the number of days worked.

145Okay. So the so the increasing to $25 an hour is increasing it by four bucks an hour would be $62,000 increase. Getting it to 25 would be somewhere in the 50k increase. Exactly. But then there is a complicating factor of potentially adding more hours. >> But that is going to impact all of them, right? Not just one. That would impact all of these things. >> That's exactly right. Because my number at 62188 >> 62188 to get to >> to four. >> Yeah. Got it. All right. >> The math, but the other part of it, we saying, you know what, if we increase all of that is giving a more competitive amount, that's where the 74 came. >> Okay. Are there steps just totally based on years of service? Does that >> Yes. >> Yeah. I

146had a question about the steps and I'm not sure if it can be answered now, but maybe at some point in the budget process. So like the bus drivers 22, teachers for us is 30 and then the district it might be 27. Admin is 15 years. What accounts for these step variations? So it's 22 years or 30 years or 15 years. >> What do you mean? >> Well, so like our admin salary schedule is built to 15. >> The bus driver is built to 22. Teachers is built to 30 steps. And I just wondered there must there's some level of decision making because some school districts will only do 27 steps for teachers whereas we do 30. But what would a cap for 22 for boss, 15 for admin, and 30 for dictator for the

147for the teacher? >> For the teacher scale, we were trying to mimic more of the state scale. Um I believe state scale goes up to 32. Um as far as leadership and administrative uh years because we only count administrative years toward that scale. Um that's why compressed down to 15. Um, that is something that I I see as something that we could probably look at in the future as well. I proposed it I think a year or two ago to expand that to 20. Um, but right now that that's just really hard. Um, as far as the years and like I said, that would be something that we can look at. And the support staff has a has a different scale, right? I've heard that before that someone who's maybe worked in the front office

148stop getting raises after a year or something. I'd be interested in fixing that. >> So like I said, I think the overall looking at our scales would probably answer again because that a lot of the issues that we do have as far as the internal when we look at with the scales. >> You still have another presentation. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. All right. So, uh, school managers, they are eight out of nine. Um, and so looking at the the duties, um, of our, uh, school administrators, um, we were, it was proposed to, uh, move them to the OS5 scale, which is the school bookkeeper, which their duties do, they do incorporate the, um, front office duties and the U bookkeeper duties. Um but we are looking at delineation of duties if you are have a bigger

149budget. So if we're looking at the middle school or the high school budget there that is something that we are looking at too if we go with this option that there may be a time that we look at the high school um bookkeeper to say maybe either an additional statement or create another scale because their their budget is so much significantly more than a K2. where if we take this option, where does it move them on the previous table? And and we maybe we don't need to answer that right now because I know there's math behind that, but I would be interested in seeing the outcomes of each options. All right. So, this is the overall um estimated um cost for all of the proposed salary increases. For the 2% again, 1.25 um for the

1503% 1.88. 88. Um we're looking at the bus drivers in the $150 is 23 338 $2 31,000 just over 31,000. And then in the proposed uh recommendation to move the school managers to the police, >> we need a we need an option for administrative adjustments. I I recognize that they're included in the total by 3% but >> is there a percentage of that you want me to look at so I have to at least be able to rent >> I think >> and >> I think let's start with normalizing the data so we understand where they are independent of days and then talk about how many steps up the ladder we want move and then you can come to us with what that number spits out. I don't I don't know the number, right? But

151I think backing into it by where we want them to arrive is the right. >> That's exactly what we did with teams. >> Are we going to get I think what we got last year and the year before which was a number of I recall it mostly for teachers in each of these boxes. I may be misremembering, but last year I'd gone through it and I thought again, you know, like James, you pointed out obviously with this first year for a doctor and this year for a doctorate, but my recollection I got at home is that there were still some teachers that were not getting that full benefit. And so if no one else wants that, I would like to make sure that >> So when you say teachers, I'm happy. Do you know what

152I'm talking about that we got a list of the number of teachers and it was in each of the like these boxes right now when you see you know teachers with bachelors with 15 years and >> are we going to get that again or is that >> if you would like that >> well I don't if no one else wants it then I can just >> I think I think it's I think it's useful like if we're number one in a category and we don't have any teachers in that category >> that's not good >> that's not great we're not spending any money >> um the I got all that I have from that data from last year was just like we we employ a lot of teachers which is the master's degrees based on

153the other people. >> I just think on these on these I chart tables. Uh if you could just have like where it says FY26 teacher scale bachelor's entry level parentheses n equals whatever for each of those boxes to get to exactly what we're saying. So again, these are just hours that we have and I think we've already talked to >> so a lot in your packet. You should have a copy of the red lines notion oops on the proposed um movements. So during the October board meeting, you received the FY26 school allotment guidelines which reflect the current school uh level status. Today we will review and discuss proposed staffing changes providing you with the opportunity to review the updates including um included in the red line version of the school guidance. The uh school guidelines

154are directly aligned with school strategic accelerators cultivating and retaining high quality professionals and organizational effectiveness in HMS. As we continue to align our staffing practices with our student focused philosophy and strategic staffing priorities, these guidelines establish a clear and transparent process that ensures the equitable distribution of human resources across school all schools based on student enrollment. The teacher uh student ratios continue to reflect the importance of maintaining the culture of CSD in smaller classrooms with support staff and school administrators staffed accordingly to state mandates and local priorities. Today's focus is strengthening operational efficiencies through proposed through a proposed FY27 staffing considerations while maintaining the high quality of services that our students and families expect. One of the significant opportunities for strategic efficiencies in the proposed restructuring is is the proposed restructuring of our school health

155services team as well as as well as a proposed addition for the for a secondary level 50 chair position. We'll start with some state funding information. CSD currently receives approximately $125,000 in state funding for nurses, but we spend over 1.2 1.28 million for staff to staff this department. This means we locally subsidize over 1.2 million to meet our local services. As we as a result of gathering data over the last three years and significant financial gap, we proposed a strategic restructure. Financially, this restructure results in an estimated safe cost savings of appro approximately 300,000 in local funds funds that we can utilize in other unit student center initiatives without diminishing the care to underest. We are also proposing the creation of a secondary 504 chair to support Joho High School and Beacon Middle School. Both

156schools continue to have the highest number of students enrolled with 501 planning transition meetings and overall evaluations. Here you can see the actual numbers pulled by our student services department which supports the fact that the secondary level final court share enables us to ensure compliance, elevate service quality and reduce the case load of the school based MTSS convenience. So as we look at this restructure, I have to reiterate that every school will have a medical professional on staff. So under the FY27 proposed restructure, our preK through two schools will be staffed with a medical health team, one per building on the OS2 salary scale. The health aids will be supported by a floating registered nurse on the SB2 scale who provides oversight, clinical guidance and coverage across the K2 camp. Our upper elementary, middle, and

157high schools will continue to have RNs with the middle and high school marines assisted by LPN on the SP1 step. This model is reflected to uh a national standards for low acuty schools and common and school districts out of sides. Most importantly, this change remains the same maintains the same level of quality, safety and responsiveness that our prek2 stu group two students are accustomed. As you can see, these are the numbers of for the proposed changes. The restructure leverages natural decision and reducing displacement of and preserving the option to place RNs into other medical roles within the district. Here is the timeline presented during the October board meeting outlining the necessary steps to ensure and efficient staffing across all schools including the initial review in October and the school a lotment guideline discussions in preparation

158for the October I mean for the December approval. As you can see, beyond December, the remaining of the staffing timeline is fully contingent upon the Kate student utilization decisions. We recognize the board's intentionality uh to slow down the utilization process to conduct a thorough data review and community feedback. I would like to give the staffing perspective on the student time right and how it will significantly impact our ability to complete FY27 staffing on schedule. If A2 utilization decisions extend beyond the first quarter of 2026, CSD runs the risk of falling behind local and state natural staffing calendar. Most districts issue contracts by midfebruary and delays past this point run the risk of overstaffing and understaff. So without the final decisions we may intentionally over contract misallocate staff or fail to post vacancies early enough to

159attract time. Also in addition this delays the allotments for the principles. Principles need early allotments to post vacancies, recruit competitively, attend hiring fairs and build schedules and master workers. Late aotments compress the entire timeline and hinder their ability to assemble strong teams. Timely staffing decisions are crucial to maintain stability for our school, staff, families as we enter the FY2 session. So at this time I completed discussions as you further look through the red lines version of our school 11. So, I just want to make sure I fully understand what you're saying that by January when the contracts are going out, if we do not know what we're doing with K2 utilization, meaning effectively, if we don't know whether or not we're closing a school, then it makes it very hard for you to make decisions

160because you're not sure what level of staffing we need. you might be overstaffing or understaffing. And so ideally from your perspective, you'd need to know by the beginning of January what the situation was going to be. There is no scenario where you're going to have an answer by the beginning of January, right? It's not going to happen. We're going through the process with the community right now. We're going to be doing the studies. None of that is going to be answered by the time you need that information. So >> well well I guess if the decision is made that we are not going to make any changes this year. >> That's what I'm saying. That's exactly where I'm going. >> That's exactly where I'm going. So, so if the process as it was outlined can't

161happen by January, then the answer needs to be for your sake and I think frankly all of our sake no changes this year. >> But I think the other thing too is that at no point throughout any of this as we transition into the next agenda item has it ever been said that staff are going to get >> yeah laid off or anything like that. I think maybe what she's saying is that understanding how people may get moved around would be helpful for the principles as they go through this set process. But I don't think at any point did anybody say that teachers would not get a contract extended. that was never set up. >> But I will say if if the decision is is not made at that time and if we go ahead

162and issue across the board contracts, we do have to look at as far as the amount of students in the classroom whether it's funding or it's over. You know, it all it does play into that decision where we're staffing and the contracts contracts are issued. >> Well, >> because the number of students is flat if they're in one building or 10. >> So, why would the number of teacher contractors change? >> Even even with the student enrollment, we still look at, you know, natural attrition or anything like that. Sometimes that takes care of itself. But the the main thing we don't want to do at the in this situation is issue contracts that you don't have in place for our teaching. >> I I I understand why that would be true for a media center

163specialist and a disc or an administrative. But you said teachers either I don't understand or the teachers would be flat >> because if you're moving a teacher from another school, >> you're still filling in the gaps enough because you're not trying to go over our need to refer class. >> Sure. >> And so if that's the case, then it may be one of those things. We may have to add a class or we may have to take away a class. It just depends on how we're staffing, where the students are, and we're replacing the the teachers. >> I guess to your point, it could be that could be an issue on the table for like something like the medical staff like you just talked about that >> the art teacher. Okay. >> But like there

164are teachers that aren't core teachers. We're not talking 23 to one. We're talking art teacher like there are teachers that >> are one part. >> So I think this particular discussion would be a good example of how the community could be confused and not misinformed. Right? So if you're listening to the snapshot, what I heard immediately was, and I'm not saying this is necessarily a fact, but what I heard was tell us now because otherwise, which is what you were asking about, and then I heard, you know, Carmen, you saying, well, no, and James, well, no, teachers wouldn't be affected. And so, you know, I just want to make sure we are aware that this is the perfect example of people being confused. Well, it's just it's how you >> interpret it. I guess it

165was confusing for you, but I didn't hear it like that. I just heard it as a >> kind of like an FYI, >> but I but I heard distinct questions like, "Will teachers not get contracts?" I heard a distinct statement that it wasn't. So, you know, I understand I could interpret it, but I think this entire discussion concerns me because it's not clear what we're deciding right now. >> Well, I No, we're not deciding anything. Thank you, Miss Walker, for saying that one of the problems from an HR perspective of delaying this is contracts, etc. >> That creates nastiness. I think that's very for us to consider taken right now. >> Very much appreciated. If anyone got more than that, because I maybe my question is confusing, but we had a bunch of people that

166are like, "Oh, classroom sizes are going to go up." No, they will not. That is a separate contracted issue. And the way you said it made me confused. >> I I feel like we're burying the lead here a little bit. Like the core the core of what I think we are as a body agreeing on albeit not voting on but agreeing on is that we are not going to make a change to the number of schools this year >> is there a way that you can wait until we get to that discussion before >> well because that's that's what that it's relevant to this conversation I mean that that I feel like it's extraordinarily relevant to this conversation >> that would require well >> yeah absolutely No, no change requires >> this year needs to

167be clarified. >> Bisc the upcoming year >> is that do we do that in the board of retreat? >> No, I don't have any >> there are no there are no >> I mean because I guess either way we have >> I was just pointing out that if we don't change anything we obviously don't have to vote on that. We we have the the chief of HR coming to us saying I in order for us to move forward in January, we really need to have an answer to this particular question around school utilization. And we are in the midst of a process that is not going to provide that answer. And so the decision then is are we going to continue forward with the process for fiscal year 27? And I think we're in agreement

168that we are not. >> I'd like to get some clarification from so you are not making a decision. You do not need however you can agree that the decision will be made at a future date. You don't have to vote. You're not >> changing it. >> Changing other than the timing of process fish. So I guess I waiting to hear for because will what Mr. Wilson says have any impact on this decision? >> That's what I'm thinking too. I think that's the very next agenda item. But what I heard her saying is just so you know this is this is the time this is the >> this is the consequences of our decision-m process from her perspective. I think that's what she was just putting out there. >> Are we are we this uncomfortable talking

169about >> I'd like to hear I personally would like to hear Mr. Wilson what he has to say and take that in or else we will we just scratch them off the agenda. No, I'm I think it's a good idea to have >> so so so >> let's see >> how might we actually look at the content of the school a lotment guideline because this is the red line >> right >> and this red line discussion informs what would come to you for a vote in December so it's the changing of the way in which we provide that level of service in nursing is your red line that I want you all to discuss right now. I like let's put a pin in that discussion right now on the K2 utilization till you get there.

170>> But let's talk about the true school a lotment guideline in the red box. >> I I do have a question about the contract just so I'm clear if the school district I think it applies to any school district, right? issues someone a contract, what is the time by which then that staff member, it may not be a teacher, it may be a different position, would then be told that during because I know the signing isn't until like May or June. So, as a starter district, we're able to move that date up. We're basically we only have that around March or April. by the state without any um recupations from PSC is the in >> I I don't feel like I have enough information on this the health changes. I I appreciate saving money and

171putting people I I guess my fundamental question is like are they slammed with students currently and we're making some cuts or are they you know like how many are they serving per day? This these changes make sense to me in terms of the unless the report back is there serving 500 sweeteners a day coming through there. Go to that slide while we're asking >> it that was it. >> Thank you. This one or >> the next one? >> This. Yeah. >> Okay. So, so in theory we're kind of changing classifications, but the same number of bodies will be in the building. Okay. So, right here when we're talking about the proposed changes, yeah, this right here with the negative six is saying that we are taking the the RN out of the this K2. >>

172But like I said, every school you have medical staff. So, we would make sure that that the K2 prek through uh two will have medical health aids. >> Okay. those validates would be uh super not supervised or or have oversight of a voting RN. >> Okay. >> And so looking back and I'm pretty sure the uh nursing department can get us and we have looked at data for over the last three years. When you're looking at because some of the concern may be there's a health aid in my school and not a RN. >> Sure. But we do have data that our MAS that we have now see sometimes more than our RN in a in a smaller school. >> Okay. >> Um and so that is part of the data that we have looked

173at over the last three years in order to make this proposed recommendation. >> Okay. >> And I'll just say and then I'll shut up. I think some of what you have to look at with interest between like an RN LP and MA is the scope of their skill and license and do you need somebody at the highest training or level of license um in providing that level of service. So there was some data that showed how many patient encounters each of those nurses had. So one of the highest was at Beacon and but if they're, you know, not medically complex patients, if they're, you know, if they're passing out medications, that sort of thing, that's within the scope of practice of say an LPN or medical assistant. Um, and they can be overseen by an

174RN. And with that perhaps by um, you know, you know, LPN at multiple sites or potentially one RF that's what we're seeing >> then that sounds great I have other red line but people want to talk about nursing >> so just so that I understand the kind of shifts we're saying we have with this change we will need to place four RNs and we have suggested movement for three of those four RNs and so that this is a net reduction of a one RN >> that I Did I get that math right? And that is something that might be managed through natural attrition. >> If it is not managed through natural attrition, is it something we could still metriculate over time? >> I mean, that would be something that we could talk about during budget

175season or the sounding. But right now with this restructure, that would be the net loss of meaning. Everyone would be placed as when you have the next Natural attrition is when you do the change in the way it is stacked. >> So that's where I was going. We're not talking about >> ripping one. >> We're not talking about riffing here. We're talking about allowing the natural nutrition cycle. >> Yes. >> We'll evolve this >> to that model >> to this model via a natural nutrition model. Okay. >> I'm good. >> I got a question. Um couple questions. The graduation coach, what what's the change with that? It's just updated. It's something that we have. It was never codified in our stat. >> So it would So whenever you see updated, it means that this is

176something that we already have. It just was not in this the school without. >> Okay. >> If you see new, that is a a proposed new position. Okay? Or just like I said, a change like if you're adding a inmate to a a K2. >> Okay. And with our stellar substitutes, >> those are the subs that stay in the buildings every day, but we will also have additional subs as needed or no. >> Is that all? Is that all the subs? >> Yeah, we always have our daily subs, >> but in order to help with the operational needs every day, we have those in the building. >> And if you need more than one sub, you still put in for sub. It's not like just the one silver sub is covering. >> Well, you know,

177we I know that we used to be underst staffed in terms of subs. And that was a big thing at the middle school. >> Um and then my last question is what's I just want curious about the rationale between the um changing the name between CTA to vocational. >> That is from the state. >> Oh, okay. >> The state changed that and now there's no longer media specialist. They're back to library. >> Oh, wow. I think I got the explanation of the difference between the medical aid and the nurse and managing that. But I did wonder since earlier I think we saw something about a proposed 504 coordinator. >> Yes. >> And you know some 504 so for having an increased number of 504s and 504s which cover things like allergies. I just wondered are

178we looking at that kind of second level of so if our 504s are increasing there are various reasons why a student might have a 504 but are those two things working in tandem to see when perhaps it's medical needs that are increasing which are different from the instructional and I'm pretty sure our our different divisions are looking at all of those things to make those decisions >> just very very quickly and this d that data is not going to be here but I would be interested in seeing it. So what has the rate of the 504s been in the middle school and the high school over time? Right? hypothesis is we're actually dealing with a lot of overhang from the pandemic and it would be interesting to know if actually no this has consistently been

179the amount that we've needed or are we dealing with a a unique set of circumstances with students that suffered from the pandemic that just that would be >> and what what I will say is next month in December you have state student support services so we can include that >> okay Oh, you're on that side now. Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, for this uh school allotment guideline is uh the way that is presented now is at the red line. This red line is what would be presented for adoption as well as your sec what you should would be your second version of your budget parameters and priorities which you'll see a little bit later. This is what will come up. Um how about you get a snack before we get started on

180that next item? >> Yes. That was Melinda saying yes because the snacks are out there. So go outside, grab a snack, and then we'll get started. Thank you. unmuted. >> Mr. probably. Okay, we will reconvene at 3:29. And our next agenda item is community building utilization. Mr. Jarvis Adam, chief operations officer. >> Good afternoon, board chair, Dr. Sultan, vice chair huts, esteemed board members, student representative, and superintendent Dr. R. Today I will report what we heard from the communities, describe how the committees will work on option B as a engagement framework and request board guidance to keep the process aligned and transparent. The community wants to trust this process, but trust is not yet present. We build trust by visible commitments, posted timelines, and a single source of data and clear roles that everyone can

181verify. We move under the premise that trust is built by what we do, not what we say. This work aligns with our all indicated strategic accelerator number four, organizational effectiveness and excellence. The K2 utilization is a planning exercise to rightsize our lower elementary for operational excellence while protecting student experience, walkability, safety, equitable access, and stewardship of public funds. Option B supports that alignment by pacing engagement for meaningful meaning input, clarifying scopes and criteria before drawing conclusions and ensuring that recommendations are transparent and evidence-based. Our aim is to make the student is to make student first decisions that are operationally sound, fiscally responsible and clearly communicated. What we heard across both sessions, we heard three consistent themes. Neighborhood identity and walkability matter. Secondly, clarity before conclude. Name the problem to solve and define a scope for

182both keep open and consolidating. And finally, consistence. Consistency. a clear timeline and a one shared set of notes from the community to the board. There's a need to understand the roads. The board sets the proper and decision criteria. The cabinet guided by superintendent will run the process in >> Mr. Adams. Can you flip my slide? Oops. Thank you. system. You ready? Now, the board will set the problem and decision criteria. The cabinet guided by the superintendent will run the process in public, maintain the shared data hub, and co-chair committees with the community. Our desired outcome is one community, one set of facts, one shared problem to solve. Cabinet recommends board decides the KT utilization study planning committees. Four CSD and community-led committees working in public from the same data. Facilities and finex will analyze utilization

183life cycle and capital planning. Student experience examines academic academic programming, student supports and transitions. Safety and operations will take a deep dive into safety, traffic, walkability, and daily operations. While culture and communication focuses on transparency, cadence of updates, and access. After each milestone, we'll post a you said, we did column, allowing the community to verify progress without needing to request it. As committees refine questions, we ask the board to remain open to minor scope adjustments that improve clarity and analysis quality. What our hope is that open meetings, open methods, open minds, and shared work will result in stronger outcomes. What the community asked the board to clarify within option B. Committees need targeted board guidance to move decisively. One problem statement and scope that apply to both keep open and consolidate paths. Two, the guard

184rail that school year 2627 remains unaffected by any decision made this year. Three, timeline steps with steps and engagement milestones. Fourth, any new ECLC linkage stated explicitly. Five, committee deliverable, what to produce and by when. Six, authorization to publish and use one shared data hub. Clear criteria and deliverables remove ambigu ambiguity and prevent duplicate work. The public will be able to track each step against the board approved plan. Our data sources we will cons we will consolidate one source of truth. raw community input from the QR survey code, meeting notes, Georgia Department of Education capita outlaid by school, and the Georgia Department of Education projections for preK through 2nd and K through 5 for school year 28 29 and school year 2930 along with brief methods and sources sheet that includes dates and version labels.

185All committees will use the same definition and baseline. For enrollment projections, we'll continue our partnership with Wolfer, a long-standing partner that has produced CSD projections for decades and consistently provided accurate results over time. We will invite WER to participate in committee work allowing them to explain their approach directly and answer any technical questions. For population and household context, we will use the Census American Community Survey for city level report and the Georgia Department of Education official counts for school data. We'll post that exact table with references, definitions, and updates on the data hub. Today is not a methodology hearings. The committee process serves as a venue for technical review, sidebyside comparison, and proposed alternatives with data change notes if figures are updated. We'll post transparent methods, dated sources, version, version numbers, and facts everyone can

186trust. The addendum binder is ready for review. It includes raw community input from the QR survey code, meeting notes from both community meetings, the Georgia Department of Education of Capital Outlaid by students, the Georgia Department of Education projections, and the Wolf student projection report. our trust commitments. We will close the loop by posting a view said weekly within 72 hours after each committee meeting. We will maintain one data hub with methods, sources, and version dates. We'll provide public status updates at board meetings and a posted cabinet. publish a one-page roles map board decisions, superintendent administration responsibilities, how committee input is used, and how the community can engage. This is a hard conversation, but a necessary one. With option B, clear board direction and transparent follow-through, we will deliver student first recommendations that our community community

187can understand and verify. Before we begin questions, I would invite Mr. James Wilson of Education Planners to address the board regarding scope. Chair, board members, at this time I invite Mr. James Wilson to share a brief statement. Thank you. Charles stated it extremely well. The um the information that we've been gathering and working with you on is all data driven. He mentioned the census.gov gov and the source the survey source that we use that's updated because the census date is 10 years. So we gave you and we will always give you accurate information that can be used as this. The other night you may have heard that uh the committees went very well except for one and that was mine because they didn't want to hear from a consultant. They wanted to hear from staff

188members. They did an excellent job. My committee was the facilities and finance, but there was a large crowd there and quite honestly, they didn't want to hear from me. Now, I worked through it. We got good co-chairs and a chair. So, all those committees are very good and they're going to continue to give you good information. I'm not in the right spot for you to to host one of those committees. They did simply not want to hear from consultant. I did the best I could but it was clear they were not happy with me and I struggled through. So you can see what Jarvis has done. There's another person who's going to co-chair that. They love you guys. They love their schools. They love their city. And so as an outsider coming in, I need

189to adjust. So, I'm still interested and willing to provide you the backup information. That's what I thought my stroke was to begin with, but to try to be out in front for you is not going to help me. I can stand out front all day long and take it. I've done it before. But quite honest, this whole process is really good. But here's the guy and the folks sitting in the back that can do this because quite honestly everyone in that room that night that I was trying to work with love these folks and didn't like me and so you have to be realistic and uh so it's a good thing I'll help in any way the superintendent asked me to. Dr. Adams the same way and I have a good rel relationship with everyone

190here. I'll help you any way I can regardless whatever. But this is a much better life and I enjoy being with you. I'll help you in any way, but this is a much better way and I don't look forward to being in front. I won't say that. But anyways, so wanted to share with you that I think we're better off with a different version of what we did last week. The committees are important, but uh the right person is Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. For the public and the board, I would like to reiterate the roles to ensure clarity. Education planners would advise the cabinet and fulfill contracted deliverables. Those deliverables are research of all potential factors involved, established timelines, create a fully developed communication plan, enrollment forecast for current and long

191range use, age and condition facility, future operational cost, potential financial savings, academic and instructional services to be provided and evaluation of future transportation. services needed to serve students. The subcommittee work is community-led and will proceed in public view. The board sets the problem, scope, criteria, and timeline. We probably will not get to the timeline and possibly the criteria today, but we will continue the discussion at the December work section work session. The cabinet runs the process, assembles evidence, and reports findings. Committees will begin meeting in January. The committees analyze both keep open and consolidate scenarios against board approved criteria. The community provides input and will be mapped to actions through our you said, we did updates. Trust will be built by predictable, visible actions. We will utilize a single data hub, publish methods and dates

192and post you said we did updates within 72 hours of meetings, providing monthly status updates. We request the board confirm that no decision will affect school year 2627. The administration is recommending a keep open strategy for 2627 school year. Let the co-creation take us beyond. Currently, we are foregoing $1.485 million in capital outlay for this 5-year long-term facilities plan. I'm ready to answer questions and engage in discussion. Yes. >> So, one I think there was the um image of aligning data sources. >> Y >> and I think I asked this at the last board meeting because I know a few constituents keep talking about department of health and birth rates. So, is that one or is that covered somewhere else? So when we get into the committees, >> yeah, >> is the time we'll finalize

193all that with with us all going in that data hub. The best venue for that because we have a lot of experts in this community. >> Um, and we want to make sure we can have open and honest conversation and hear everyone out. That committee work is the best place. I would hate to exclude something here without hearing it fully. >> And then can we follow up? I think you just said a million and change for capital outlay for the five-year facilities. >> 1.485. And that's what's the starting year for that and what's the ending year for that? >> So 2227 is that fiveyear plan. >> So within that fiveyear plan, that's how much capital outlay we're not eligible for, but it's built into that plan. But our eligibility is missed because we don't have

194over too many students. >> And so I think does >> so that's three schools without that do not qualify for cap. >> That's what I was going to ask because I think I get that asked a bit. So is 200 the threshold for a K through two elementary school to be eligible for capital? >> Yes. >> Let me can I reframe that? Is is 200 the number for a K22 or K25 per the state? >> So it matters what you have in your local local board. Yeah. >> And so here >> if we had K through five, it'll be 200. >> No, don't hold to that. I need to look at the chart. But I know for what we have, we're dealing with the Department of Education. Our model is we need 200 for K

195through2. >> Okay. And if and I can show you guys on the on the principal portal as if you can bring my laptop and let me connect it. It'll show you how it's >> we did it shows it's a red line. >> I believe you. Yeah, I believe I just was trying to understand the states level. >> Yeah. Um I and I just want to I want to clarify that when we talk about the student count in each of these schools. >> Yes. >> The number of students >> should always include the prek count as well because they count towards the totals. >> Yes. >> So when we get these reports I'm looking through these pages here that only include kindergarten through two. and we make sure we get the prek numbers added to each

196school so we know what that actual gap is. >> Yeah. >> Uh it's is important because if I'm looking at for example Claremont 2728 the projected the recommended projection number of students is 149 students not including how many prek kids there might be that should be counted in Claremont. So, we don't know looking at these numbers, is it 20 kids we need to get into Claremont to get to the 200 number? >> So, I get this, but let's make sure that it's in the data that's here. >> Yeah. So, >> I know what I added in there with us speaking of under the dendum. It has prek through second. >> I I'm just looking at the data in front of me. So, >> you're looking at the wer out. So, Georgia Department of Education in

197that addendum is the Georgia Department of Education who who provides everything for us. >> Let let me let me let me kind of set all this short, right? So, I understand I understand that there's different sources of data. I understand that we have different reports. I understand that things get put out there in different ways. >> Yes. >> Well, remember Anderson was talking earlier about how this can be confusing for the community. Anything that gets published that includes a student count for those schools, whatever, whether it's recommended, high, low, whatever it is, always should include going forward, every student that counts within that school, right? So that there isn't this conf because some people are going to look at this and be like, it's 149. Then I look at that with an add point here.

198The issue is because I want to make sure I understand because I hear this quite a lot is what we're looking at is the wool report. We don't have the capital out. Is that correct? >> No, you do. >> Oh, we do. Okay. >> I think the to stop any confusion or misunderstanding. >> The final authority in Georgia is not one the final authority in Georgia is Florida Department of Education. Yes. >> So when you look at the Georgia Department of Education numbers, >> that's going to be the final authority to what we do in the state. >> And so that report is going to give you the projection for 29, school year 29 and school year 30 um with their with their projections. >> But go so if you're looking at the woke up

199report, you need to go back a yellow tab. Go back one yellow tab. in our approach to assist. >> Yeah. No, but I think I don't know if I >> What was the last thing? >> I think a role model. >> Okay. So, that >> I have no idea. >> Let me say this. Let me just >> look at the teacher. >> So, let me let me just say this, right? So, I'm looking at the table that you guys are recommending that I look at, right? >> Yes. >> I have a career of looking at spreadsheets and building out charts and information from spreadsheets. And at a first glance at this table, I'm going to need you to walk me through so that I can understand what I'm looking at. >> And if I can't

200understand what I'm looking at, then like like this, like some of this is horizontal, some of this is vertical. The dates are 2029 and 2030. I don't see what the current date is in here. I don't know what an EIU is. What does it mean to say it's available net gain loss funded? Like this is an impenet impenetraably difficult table to go through unless you have real explanation under what all of this stuff is. This is why people are confused. >> Okay. And so I think the first thing is that I think they're having multiple conversations where I mean some people are talking about data sources, some people are talking about a capital. I just want to I want to make >> my question was very straightforward around what is the projected count of students

201next year for each school including prek and that I was pointed to this chart as the chart that should make that clear to me and I'm looking at the chart and it is not clear to me I could probably figure it out and I probably need some help to figure that out but there's no way we were going to publish this for the public and have the public go through it and figure it out and it shouldn't be this hard but I Yes, >> it should not be. >> You have all these different documents. How much are we how much are we supposed to break down each of these? >> So, when we tell the public that we need 200 students in a school, it should be very easy to show the public how many

202students count towards that 200 in a school. It I mean this is not rockets. It should just a very straightforward thing. We need 200 students in Westchester and we have exactly what 175 like we should have that number someplace. >> I mean like how many >> but this is literally the most important thing we're talking about right now and it's not here in an absorbable way. >> H can you explain what you're talking about prek being counted? >> Can I hold on? Let let me let let me answer James question and then yes. So, so every school that 200 student count >> y >> includes or should be inclusive of the number of prek students uh that are within that draw district. Right. And so Westchester for example in the Walport report has the recommended

203projected enrollment for Westchester for 2728 no next year I'm sorry 2627 is 151 students. >> Correct. But there is a number of prek students that would also count to that 200 and and it's not on the woolport report. I understand the woolport report doesn't provide that but we can. There isn't a comparable table for me to look at and say well okay so Westchester I'm going to go across here PK to2 FTE is60. So that is are we saying then that the 160 that means that there are nine prek students that are included in the lit like I have to do the cross >> the prek head count is missing from these tables here each individual school breakdown the prek count >> I just wanted to say wow but the prek count is already included

204in the count for the building for the >> count so is the prek embedded in the case >> no it's not >> so so I mean the point being we as a body with all of your expertise and with all of our expertise are confused sitting here. So it is shockingly unsurprising that the community is also confused, right? And so I I do believe that we need to make sure that that information is laid out kind of in a very straightforward way. >> The the community has never seen what they're looking >> but okay also that's a problem then right I mean so But we should get so much the plan was always for vice chairs. Your point is extremely well taken and I think that's the purpose of today's presentation for the board to

205give direction on the criteria for the community to look at it. >> So what you're asking >> is extremely doable in we can we can make that happen. How short is every school from the 200 number >> today >> now and projected? That should be something that that's the that's the beginning baseline. If what we're saying and maybe maybe we're not saying this so this is opening up to the conversation. If what we're saying is we would like to see every school at that 200 number. >> Correct. >> Right. That that I think that's >> not correct but I correct that that's what you're saying. >> That's what I'm saying. Okay. If that is the basic target >> is to try to get every school to or above 200, right? >> Then we need to

206know like the single most important piece of information is how short are each of the schools from that number, >> right? >> And and that that's the piece of information that isn't super evident in the information. And I think we define that as the criteria that when we ask for this guidance that criteria, that's what we're asking the board to define. Yeah. >> What criteria we go to the committees to meet with to make sure that what we're looking for is what board approves and that everyone can test what we're doing with the committees based off of the criteria that the board set. I just think as a point of fact very few people know that the K2 potential bodies count for the FTE for capital outlay >> prek pre in theory moving prepaid into

207Claremont for kids that are going to go there does not change the capital outlay projections >> it does not because they already counted no hold on hold on let me let me let me make an adjustment there right because what we're saying right now is the only prek that count are the ones that are registered at College Heights, right? >> That's right. >> Currently in fiscal year 26. >> When I count for Westchester in this fiscal year, the prek count is the number of children from the Westchester draw district that are in prek at college. So moving it into Westchester, increasing the number >> will substantially pre >> theoretically substantially increase the number of kids. Yeah. That >> keep saying that's what that's where I'm confused as to if if they're already in the headcount.

208So like I don't know my own kid is going to be in prek next year. If she's already in prek at college heights and she's at prek physically college or at Winona Park, it doesn't make any difference. She's already in the head count for Winona Park. >> Yes. But the the but the but the I think the basic premise that the community is saying and certainly I will posit this as well is if there are what is it eight kids that we're saying is from Westchester that are at at College Heights that whatever that number is the difference between 160 and 151 nine kids I guess the nine child difference that is in that count do we honestly believe there are only nine prekage children within the Westchester draw districts >> no of course not

209if we open up space in Westchester for all of the other prekage children within that draw district. Likely they would also or theoretically they would also go there which would then significantly increase the counts assigned to that school. >> So we we I think we've shown the number of kids that are enrolled at Westchester but we haven't really shown the headcount for Capital Outlet FTE. So as we repeat we might get to 200 and they're like 147. It's actually currently closer to like 156 for capital outlay purposes. >> That's what I'm trying to get. >> And so I guess my other question is because you know we knew that we were going to be getting this information from edge planners today. So we're looking at it for the first time today. But are we saying

210that ultimately we don't need any of this? We just need the district to tell us how many kids we're short of the capital outlay? >> No. No. Well, I'm saying that the reason for this information is to if our objective is to get those schools to 200, the reason why you do this analysis, presuming that it's found to be credible, is so that you know what gap you have to close, right? And if if the gap is 200 students at one school, well, that's not likely to be closed. If the gap is in fact more like 20 students a school, which is what it actually kind of looks like it is in the numbers, that's an eminently closable gap. >> Was it ever 200 when it was never 200? I mean, we know >> No,

211he's exaggerating for for like so it's clear. >> I think Mr. Adams, an easy thing for you to perhaps do looking at this um each individ Yeah, I like the way that this is broken down by color. Very color driven person. It's very easy to see is you could add a line at the top that pulls out >> the prek numbers and that way and I think that's that is big point of feedback for the community is would prek potentially um and it potentially uh close some of this gap would be a viable creative solution to this problem. So maybe what we could look at is if every child is in fact I said my own kid who's going to be pre-K next year is she truly a Winona North resident it should be easy

212to figure out where all those prek pads are and then figure out again if you opened up prek at Winona Park um or prek at Claremont would that potentially close that gap that should be easy data. I think the other thing too is that from my perspective this is not solely about headc count. I think some of this is about the utilization and the viability of these buildings. Some of these buildings are not young. Um we talk about that all the time. Plumbing issues, roofs, all of those things. So within that, you gave a a figure of how much uh we are missing in capital outlay. But, you know, another point might be um when some of these buildings are due for potential um renovations and when, you know, who needs a new roof, when

213do you project that? Um who needs HVAC for repairs and when because then if they are not at the threshold of capital outlay that just money that's coming out of the general fund. Um so, it might be helpful to know that data as well. I think I think prek is is something that we need to really dig into. Um but we don't want to put a whole bunch of kids in a bu in a building that ultimately in five years may not be viable and we won't have enough kids in it to be reimbursed for any repairs that are planned because you give us that information in like the state of operations, right? Don't we get the >> Yes. >> the a buildings and then Yeah. So when Mr. Adams provided in September the state

214of operations, you will remember that was the first time the board actually approved the >> correct. >> We we had to submit the application. So that had to be signed off and approved by the board and that September meeting was >> and we do realize that these are systems and functions that Decar has not necessarily known that is a part of what being a school system is like knowing what capital outlay is and its eligibility criteria for reimburseable needs, whether they're modification or re renovation or construction. It's not been language that has been widely communicated prior to this administration, but the school system has been here for many years and Capital Outlet has been an option in Georgia for years. So, we're we are trying to really begin to think about how can we access

215some additional funding to get some of the things done. Agree. >> So, one um this is where I think you did a great infographic. Was it in June or May? And it was kind of ladders or something. I don't know. But there needs to be some kind of infographic here because it already is confusing among this group in terms of how prek counts now how prek is factored into the K through two. So I'd like to suggest a visual not just the chart. That's one. two is K through three on the table because it was I think when uh constituents spoke at our board meeting about right and the idea that that was by design right as you move because my daughter was in the last graduating class at Oakidge so these facilities once housed

216K through three students so I just want to understand is the whether it's the problem or the circumstance that we are now saying whatever ever was instituted six years ago is what we have to stick with. >> Let so if I could address that right when they were K3 they were they were pretty dramatically overcrowded like uncomfortably overcrowded and I don't think that's going back to overcrowding in the in the K2s is probably not the that is not the path that I think we want to go to. Right. The other the other thing is um if you look at the at these numbers so I'm just looking at Westchester for example 29 2019 to 2020 there were over 200 kids in that school. >> It is the pandemic that erased that number of students. And

217so we are I think by the Wort reports acknowledgement and even the ACS we are in a highly fluctuating and unstable population environment due to the pandemic. We have not recovered from it yet. So, I think making large-scale changes like that, board member Anderson, when we aren't sure and where we have historical data that indicates we actually might be back to 200 students in the K2s just by natural population growth. I would I would not want to because all we're doing in that case is then moving the problem into the upper elementary and we might have to undo that in a couple years. I I would look at these numbers and say one, I question whether we're going to be under these thresholds over the long haul. It looks like even in K2, pre- pandemic,

218we were in a much better place with each of those schools. There are reasons with birth rates to suspect there might be some rebound. And if we are including looking at preK and expanding access for preK approximate to those sub communities, I I we're we're not far from 200 students. And then the the last thing that I would say here really quickly, $1.5 million over five years, it's $300,000 a year. If you put it to the community, do you want to close a school to save $300,000 a year? I'm not I'm not sure where that that that's a tough conversation to have with a community. It's just it's actually not that much money for the impact that you're having on a community. So So I think we should be thinking about all of this. I

219get that we want to be fiscally responsible, but this community has clearly communicated local walkable schools is an incredibly important aspect of the virtue and value of the community. Are they willing to spend $300,000 a year to maintain that? I think that's worth asking. And that's only if, just to be clear, that's only if we can't actually get back to 200, which it actually looks like we might be able to. I I think the other the other thing to put out on the table is um and maybe take this back to some of the committees there is their appetite for a reszone. Uh because you have some that's >> you have some uh some schools like my beloved on the park that um are a little bit more populous than others. Um, and maybe it

220amounts to us redrawing the lines to keep some schools that we could keep them all open, but it may be that uh we move some students around to keep to to create a balance because that but that would also mean of some amount of disruption. So where your older sibling graduated from Westchester, maybe the younger sibling actually ends up at Claremont. So all the schools stay open, but it may be that you don't end up where you once were. But it would be a creative solution now even with um adding prek uh because again I think we need to get some clarity on the headcount but you know realigning who goes where might it's not may not make us so reliant on bringing students into the system which is uncertain at best. Um and I

221have my thoughts about um continuing to seek out tuition paying students. I think there's a line to that before we get to the point we're trying to privatize a public education. Um but um I think that is something I would like for one of your committees to think about. Um it is a a viable option. My other thought too is with these data sources, I think from what I have read and researched and looked at, there's some level of dirtiness with looking at birth rate as a predictor of kindergarten um enrollment. We just have to we we have to we have to accept that. So these numbers are just going to be there's going to be some limitations to it. So I don't I think we should get less we shouldn't be so tunnneled into

222this is the birth rate so this is what is going to be the kindergarten enrollment. There's just going to be there's some limitations to that as a predicted value. Um my other question would be for I guess this data group is how accurate is the wolf report for decator? They should be able to figure that out. um if it's like been spot on for us then we should use it instead of like looking at these other sources we'll drive ourselves crazy uh but if the over report works for indicator then we should use that data set and not you know try to reinvent the wheel >> I just wanted to say one thing what you were sharing about specifically Winona Park is something to really think about because you realize legacy part is going up

223in various phases So, um when predicting um enrollment, your demographers are looking at new builds and other construction and how that would potentially impact. So, uh thinking about that in that way is definitely smart specifically for Winona Park because the way it is zoned currently, Legacy Park feeds to Winona Park. And there's another development not too far from legacy part that will feed into the new management. >> I just wanted to say that. So the other part maybe I think this is what you were referring to the I'm thinking of our June I think it's June and the capital presentation and I thought one of the things we were hearing is that teachers have children. So in to this students coming into the district, you know, we have the students that are born here, the

224students that move here. I think we started with some tuition paying, but then my understanding is we also have a another group which would be staff. So, are we I guess I'd like to know more, unless I am wrong. It sounds like we're trying to figure out how to get that capital outlay number for the elementary schools for next year if it's possible. Then, >> can we have the group acknowledge that because if that that everybody has asked what is the problem we're trying to solve and if that is the problem we're trying to solve, we should just acknowledge that right now. >> That would be great. We have an excellent no catching back catching everything and we have not caught problem offense. >> I well I feel like that is the problem we're trying

225to solve. It sounds like you are like what do the other board members? >> I think it is definitely um capital outlay. Yes, I think it's also an imbalance in the size of the schools because you have some schools that like I said Winona Park consistently is at these numbers like you know the historical that 2016 2017 were at 433. Yeah. >> You know so then you have some that are trending high and some that are trending low. Um Winona Park had trailers at one point. So it doesn't make sense. Still does. >> So it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to have some schools that are in abundance and you know potentially bursting at the seams and then you have some that are running lower. That also plays into what we talked about

226just a couple seconds ago when it talks about staff resources. >> So if we're in balance in that regard then we need to look at aligning and balancing resources and the aligning and balancing population. There's three schools in the north, two schools in the south. Um but maybe it should stay that way. But we need to look at how all of our students and our staff are are balanced in that regard. >> Should we say then rebalance the distribution of students within the system to uh equit equitably distribute the students and get our northern schools above the 200 capital count threshold. Did that capture? >> I have a lot more questions than that. Yeah, I want to revisit just >> Okay. So, what I'm doing, so after the court report, >> there is a sheet

227of paper. >> Most genius sheet of paper I've ever seen. >> The cheapest sheet of paper you've ever seen. >> Turn it in. >> Yeah. And you don't have to turn it in at the end, but it is a very much a genius sheet of paper. Yeah, >> I just heard what would be a supporting idea >> to what we're trying to get to as the pro. So that am I right on that? >> Yeah, I wrote the core idea is we want to be stewards of a fiscally sustainable school district period. Nothing more we're less complicated about that. The questions I have and I need to pour through this but if the data doesn't answer I won't is >> how much do we save or how much is each school costing us? >> He

228just throw out the capital number. It's a lot more than that. >> Kind of a B sub point to that is like how much we spending per student per building. That's the only equity concern. I'll just throw it out there. If we're spending $50,000 a student to educate every kid at Oakhurst and $4,000 to educate every kid in the high school, that's a problem. Made those numbers up, but that is a problem. And that problem should have a threshold somewhere. And I would like to know it. >> You can include capital in that. That would be great because you are absolutely correct. If we know we got to replace the AC and the roof and major other improvements of one of these buildings, that would factor into it. I do think there's some recommended fixes,

229but I've heard feedback both ways. So, A is tuition. Thank you, Dr. Sultan, for saying the truth, which is I've heard people say, if you add 50 tuition students to Westchester, does that change the community? Does that Are you just letting rich kids join the Westchester community to fix it? Is that what the community even wants? I don't I don't know. I would love for someone to answer that. If it is an overwhelming yes, great. It's a mix. Okay. This preK at schools, I was confused by the number. I think thank goodness for clarifying it, but like what could that number look like if we added it? Could we solve it? We said the rebalance that would also solve, right? Like if we could, you know, is it just about shifting some lines and then

230all of a sudden you send 50 Oakhurst kids to Westchester and we save 1.5 million? We should do that. >> No. >> Well, I mean, I Yes. In the simplest way. >> In the simplest way. I'm not talking about to, you know, >> I get I did. >> Uh the other one I had is like well I I wanted a a policy from the board that included a calendar of expectations and we didn't do it at the time. We just kind of wrote policy. It's like school closure we do it. And it would be nice if the previous board, let's go back 10 years in time and the board said, "Well, we close it and here's the lessons we learned. Here's our calendar for events. This is when we should announce it. This is when

231it needs to happen for HR perspectives. Parents who are going to make a decision need to know. We need to revisit that policy. We need to put that in writing so that people know because I actually think it would be irresponsible for us looking at these numbers to not ask for a utilization study. I I believe that strongly and that's all we did. and then some people wrote some news articles and some people posted on Facebook and all of a sudden there's some secret gabal meetings that are affidate that that we're closing two schools or that sort of stuff. Whereas if it was in a policy and it was written out, we're following it. I think that would go a long way of us saying like we're just doing exactly what we said we were

232going to do per our norms. And and the last one I'll say is there's got to be a threshold. And every community member I've talked to, there were 12 kids zoned for Oakhurst Elementary. We would have to clo close it, right? We would just have to close it. What is that threshold? I don't know, but I would like to know as we break >> like like >> maybe what other schools have as a break even, but maybe there's a way to look around and see I know DAV is not going to the same issue as the same issue. So they must have we must be able to look around and see what their thresholds were for solid. I maybe we should throw out the word closed. Let's not maybe we could say the winter threshold

233of course we're consolidating >> and >> yes we we did do the environmental you know the difference is >> K2 is different >> also I I so I mean I want to point out just to be transparent about the the data you know while APS and Fulton County are looking at closing schools we're talking about closing 20% % of our capacity and and so that's that is dozens and dozens and dozens of schools in these other districts, right? It's not a it's not a hand. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. And I So kind of a few things. I agree. We obviously we need to be fiscally responsible but and I'm glad there's I think it's a culture committee because J I mean Hans you just described it from a kind of quantified standpoint but I

234I would argue also that we are just different and I think it's important that while we're looking at everything kind of financially responsible at this level because this building has this roof There's another one here and I I just think that's very important for us to acknowledge. I mean I think many of us move to Decator for the schools and so I think it has to be recognized somewhere in this process too. I appreciate the committees there, but some of the things I'm hearing are almost just like bucket items disassociated from the character and the culture that unique part of our school district that I don't think can be compared to these bigger schools. >> So, can I push the board just because I don't want to take up everyone's time. I know we I

235knew we were not going to get through all the criteria, right? That's you guys job to define that privacy. But what we do need today is the administration made one request that we don't impact 2016 and we need a problem a clear problem statement to solve and that has to come from. So I or do we agree that we are not changing our school footprint for the 2627 year? >> I do. >> I agree as well. >> That's the recommendation of the administration. >> Yes sir. >> So that is unanimous. Then the board is recommended. The board is a is agreeing with the administration's recommendation to not consolidate the schools for the 26 27 year >> though you cannot vote. This is not a full right >> but I I had a question about clarification

236because you said not to change the footprint >> student. >> Huh? >> student footprint. Okay. >> Question. I'm sorry I missed it. got it out >> because you know the EC the new ECLC has been so woven into this discussion about you know K2 uh K through2 you know utilization and everything and so I don't want anybody to come back and repeat this you know um consensus statement yeah >> and and you know ground is being broken on this new C E DC ECLC. >> So then let me maybe we rephrase the administration's recommendation is that we not do a K2 consolidation or utilization change for fiscal year 2627. Yes. And the board is agreeing with that. >> Let me read your recommendation. >> Yeah, let's let's go with that. Even though it's not a

237vote that there is I just want to make sure we're crystal clear because the administration is recommending a keep open strategy for 262. >> Keep open strategy for 262. And we'll work with our committees to co-create. You see where it takes us beyond 26. So >> that does nothing to foreclose a tuition approach or more prek stuff. Correct. >> Or can I ask you like if there were um if we got to a point where it was like 180 at this elementary school or there volunteers that would leave go from this school to this school that all students, right? >> That's the part of the cocreation in the future. So the idea that Mr. Adams said what the administration is recommending >> the keep open strategy work through the committees no impact on 2627. working

238through the committees includes everything that everyone has referenced today >> from prek to if you want volunteers if whatever the community cocreates is where you go >> and then that then comes back to you I'm sorry and then comes back to you guys and so are we supposed to try to tackle these other things during the work session in December. >> We've tackled bullet number two, but we have to tackle bullet number one. >> Now, tell me, >> tell me what you mean by that like how granular do you want that to be? I mean, is the like consent continue to look at capital, make sure we're maximizing the budget for student success is obviously like a vision type statement that we have and we endorse. Is that all you want or do you want

239something more than? >> So, I need a north star from the board. Tell me what we're going to meet to these committees to do. >> We're going we meeting with committees to solve what problem. >> What are we trying to solve there? >> How to keep the schools how to keep the K through2 schools open? how to get them to the minimum capital threshold account so that we are not incurring a burden of cost that the state would pick up. >> I would say I would say more more broadly is how to address the problem of one or more schools that is under the 200 student mark. I think you capital outlay is a is a symptom of the problem. Um, great. >> Yeah. So, you could say we can to the problem is we

240have more than we have one or more schools on any given year that may be below a 200 student population. How do we address that problem? So, then we can from there we have multiple solutions. Tuition pays, prek, reszoning, school consolidation is but one solution to that problem. >> But, but we are saying we're we're pivoting off the 200 student number. We're basically saying how do we get every school above 200. >> No, we're not saying that. We're saying that how do we clear the problem? The problem is we have multiple schools that are below 200. So the the pro that is the problem. He didn't ask for a solution. He just asked what the problem was. So that is the problem. >> Well, the scope >> the scope of it is we have one

241or more schools on any given school year that are hanging out below 200. So then from there you can come up with a myriad of creative solutions. And I think that's what you should take back. >> But the myriad of creative solutions are to get the schools above 200. I don't understand why >> a problem statement. You didn't say problem. >> I would also like the committee to be if they if we spend this year and we can't like we should also be pessimistic being armed with data that is like this is what it costs to keep these schools open. This would be the fiscal impact of closing. This would be the fiscal impact of that. The committee should also do that. your scope as you stated it doesn't come close to providing that data

242because I have a lot of qu the one I could not answer for the community it's like this is how much we would save and this is why we need to save that money and this is what we'll do with that money >> and doesn't that fall under like some of those specific committees the like >> I mean his point is though the way I was framing the statement wouldn't allow for that analysis so you you want that analysis done I agree >> so that would be well what to produce We need to produce that analysis, >> right? >> And so we need to produce it and we need to produce it by wind. That's what we're asking from. That's the direction we need. >> I think some of those committee deliverables will depending on

243what their deliverables are, some are going to move faster than others. I think some of like the finance committee, I think they probably are going to move faster than say the culture committee. They may want to put surveys out. they want to may want to meet with the PTO president for things James is asking um like looking at um capital outlay looking at um HVAC roofing pulling this data together cost per pupil um all those backward projections I feel like they could probably do that over the course of a couple of weeks or months but then looking like really digging into um culture what it would look like if you only had four schools what it would look like if you reszone a school what it would you know all those things that may take

244a little bit more >> a little bit more time. >> So, we got second flooded down. Are we ready to stamp the first book? >> I'm trying to think through >> because the rest could be covered in December work session. >> Yeah. >> But we were we we were really asking to get two of these bullets knocked out. Um the first and the second. We've done a second. >> Can we just want to complicate this? I think or make sure that I address it because maybe it's going to be in the committee. But I thought another thing I was hearing and maybe this is responding h to your point about co was the issue that people were not sending their children to schools here. So I realize on one hand um we heard about you

245know you can't look at the birth rate as an absolute that'll be in the school building anymore. So is that something that the culture committee is looking at? If it turns out, you know, on a street level, these committees can start looking and seeing, hey, I know those three houses just had three year olds, and I know those two houses. So >> So remember, >> I don't know if I'm asking a clear question, but that's something from the committee, >> but the committee is asking the board, >> right? Exactly. >> For direction on what to look for, not that the committee has ideas. >> Sure. It feels like they want to know they're willing to work. They did come in willing to work. >> Um I thought it was a very positive feeling at the

246end, but that every committee stood up and said we need some direction from the board. >> Okay. What mean that? >> I feel like we have to go through each committee and handle one by one. Yeah. That deliverable >> and that's what I'm concerned about trying to cover. So, so let's say for >> I think it is there is some homework here for sure. >> Yeah, I think the scope is just to fiscal stewardship as far as school utilization. >> Okay. >> And to arm ourselves with the data, the numbers we need to make long-term planning decisions for this district. That is the larger problem that we are trying to solve. that can be stated prettier. I think that's the general I'm trying to write like I'm thinking of something I think a parent asked

247me >> and so you're right about the physical part but then there is is it an unknown variable the instructional part so like right now you know it sounds well and good we have GMAS scores and those are I guess by the school so I feel like we'd be remiss if we weren't also looking at something in the instructional experience or is that the culture committees identified? >> So you will experience >> the student experience I guess is >> so so this is this is sloppy all I just slap this together but I'm trying to synthesize a little bit of it. So, so not talking about 200, but can we can we balance the K2s to optimize the fiscal stewardship of the district while respecting and valuing the culture of a small of small walkable

248schools, right? That that means that if I am going to run the numbers on the fiscal benefit of closing a school, I need to also run the cultural impact of closing that. I need to I need to be balancing all of that. We can word smith that, but it's not prescribing an outcome. It's not prescribing a solution. It's trying to get to the fact that there are costs with maintaining small walkable schools. We are currently suboptimal in how that is happening. Can we optimize the way the schools are laid out to arrive at the most fiscally responsible solution that still respects the cultural uh benefits of small walkable? >> And vice chair you say one more time. I just want to make sure I >> Well, I want to hear what let me let me

249hear. >> Just I I like that except the 200 thing depending on what this timeline looks like, right? So if the committees are only meeting to start doing work in December or November, >> January, >> then is there a problem with accepting the possible 200 mark for next year that the bigger picture is this balancing? I don't know enough of what timeline looks like to balance versus 200. >> I I'm kind of come around to to or I'm sorry, Dr. consultants point of view that that if you prescribe you start leaving things off the table, right? Like it might be it might be that the the one committee that's looking at the demographic data comes to the conclusion everyone comes to the conclusion that by just leaving it alone we're going to get back to

250the threshold because the population I don't I'm just speculating but I I would be hesitant to overprescribe that. So what I what I had written the first time was can we balance the K2s to optimize the fiscal stewardship of the district while respecting and valuing the culture of uh small walkable schools >> retaining maybe not respecting I don't know >> well no we might not retain though like we might it might >> I mean >> I guess my my only thing is is by maintaining small walkable schools would kind of exclude redistricting as an option. >> Not necessarily. No, >> you take out the word walkable. >> I think you should because if you >> and that's something folks going to have to keep in mind if you if we if we try to balance

251these schools >> and some kids are going to have to go to a school outside of their walkable area. >> That is true. And it is also true. I feel like from a from a perspective standpoint, there are a lot of parents in this district that simply cannot will not or unable to walk their kids to school. U they >> two months. >> Yeah. Well, they they don't have jobs that allow it. Uh they they are the parent the kids live with the grandparents. Um so while that is a cultural thing that I respect, not everybody gets up in the morning. >> Small local schools. >> Yeah. Not everybody gets up in the morning and walks their kids to school walks home. So let me say let me say small local schools. What I want

252to make sure we do look the fiscally most responsible solution >> which I am not recommending as an answer but if we were to run this like any other district we'd have one elementary school for all of the children like that that just like put everybody into a single school and it is clear the community is willing to spend some amount of money in a somewhat inefficient way to preserve smaller schools. And I just got to say that because it's just I'm about to burst, but it's kind of off topic, but >> I just, you know, the walkable school thing doesn't come up when we talk about the ECLC and our kids on buses >> to try to make that. No, no, let me finish. I just want to put this out there in the

253universe >> that you know we're not >> that we don't hear that as a priority >> for this new C ECLC and um and a community that would it would be walkable for >> and you know you're saying they're willing to put their money up for this >> but when it comes to the new ECLC folks don't want to do that >> they were going to put those kids on buses. Let let me let me just very quickly I want to address that just very very quickly. I do agree we heard a lot of really awful input on how to address some of the stuff for for the kids in the ECL seat. But as I have had conversations in the community, I have become more and more convinced that it is a minority, a

254loud but angry minority opposed to it. The vast majority of parents that I've had conversations with are actually quite supportive of the ECLC. >> I know and I wish we could get I agree. I agree. But but that is the let me can I come back really quickly to see if >> I want to comment though to the very thing that's being talked about here as a parent who chose a walkable school district but has a job that could never afford or the ability to walk. So I can still prioritize the walkability because I love the fact that that means fewer cars, fewer cars that are affected of students. And so I do feel like we need to have some definition or parameter of that because when we reduce it to walkable or not, we

255overlook that fact. >> So can I say because can we balance the K2s to optimize the fiscal stewardship of the district while respecting and valuing the culture of small local schools? >> Yes. Fine. I also want to just say that it is not the case that anybody is dep prioritizing walkable schools. What I am saying is that there are multiple people in the community that live within walkable range that their kids that live with their grandparents and the grandparents do not walk to school. There are kids that these parents leave leave and go to work at 5:00 in the morning. So the kids have to get on the bus. So, I just want to put it out there for folks that while I appreciate that this is something that they value, not everybody has the

256ability to get up in the morning and walk their kids to school and walk them home. Their their family demographics are just not set up that way and sometimes it's a pain point when we get >> locked into thinking that everybody in Decator is set up the same way because they are not. It is not that way. for la last statement or last point because we do have to move on. The community wants Yes. The community really wants to hear from the board that the new ECLC is linked yes or no to the K2 decisions and starts. >> No. Obviously not like we're not opening one because we're closing another. I think that it comes from sort of like it's all one big pot of money and that sort of stuff. >> No. In in

257no way. It's like we had the last budget thing like literally paying back the bond is we could we could fix a few things with like changing the way we've been doing accounting for the thing is roughly the equivalent of what the bond cost. ultimately closing the schools about long stored stewardship, putting kids where they need to be served and serving kids again. So no, I I understand what they're saying. It isn't actually impossible to say no to that question if we really think about the law is all one day pot of money and understand that that sort of but end of the day that >> yeah and I will say no. I have not heard anything to lick the tube, but to James's point, um I I think we're asking people a lot to

258disassociate the two financially, and it's not just the building. There's also um the c the um operating costs, but no, I've never heard anything like operating cost, but >> the new ECLC. So, >> Oh, I thought you meant the new K2. Well, because I think we were just asked about linking the new ECLC to K through 2. Is that correct? >> And I said no. >> Yeah. >> And then James talked about the reality that people are looking at finances and that is the thing that I find very difficult to discuss with people. >> Oh, that's I I should I should not have opened up that can. I I apologize. One, we have Splast for Capital where we can build an ECLC. We have a group of students that have historically been underserved in a

259community that uh promotes walkability and proximity and is willing to go to arms to not close a K2 or for the last 20 years has refused to put it in a place where a group of people sold us land. A organization the house sold us land eight years ago and we have just sat on our proverbial ass and done nothing about it for all of the time. That is in my mind not a silver bullet. said that publicly a couple times, but it is doing a little bit to rectify a historical harm that we are all carrying a little bit of responsibility to. During that same time as a school board, did we say like, "Hey, Jarvis did a great presentation. We are not using these schools efficiently. We are wasting tens of thousands of

260dollars that I would prefer to give to teachers, that I would prefer to put a new gym in, that I would prefer to improve our instructional material." Can we do both? Maybe we we're going to put some committees to it, but they are not linked in any way. It's not like we're like, "We're going to close an ECLC, so let's have some secret cabal step one, close one, open one, step three, profit." Like, I have no idea where that linkage comes from. >> It's some like thought process that we're going to take something from some privileged group of people or some people, some people who can and then use it for this underserved group of folks. I think that is kind of the thought process. >> If we can do both, we should do both.

261>> But it is not the case. That is not what's going on here. That is not what that is. ECLC would be open to >> more than just >> that demographic of our community, right? I mean, it wouldn't just be limited, >> you know, babies would be able to come from across the district, right? >> I I do I do want I I'm going to come back and and hammer on this again, right? because I I mean I sat up with y'all and I we've taken some of the questions and some of the angriest voices and some of the most common emails that we get and and it there is a contingent of people pretty furious about ECLC. >> Sure. >> But man, I have had dozens and dozens of conversations with parents in the

262community and to a person they've been supportive of it. So I I really don't want us to get skewed just because we have the angriest voices in front of us sometimes. I I think it is important that we recognize that that they're >> I wish you would encourage them to come see and that'll be >> that would that will help and it might help them influence their neighbors. >> Yep. Yep. I hear you loud members because it's hard. >> It is hard. It is hard. It's hard to sit up here and and take the slings and arrows from from the parents that don't want to support that community, right? Without question. But that said, there is no like everything that we do to promote fiscal stewardship of the district and to take like we had

263a whole presentation from Estston about pulling out things that are, you know, things that aren't working or aren't being used or aren't aren't meeting those thresholds, those dollars. We're not doing that to be able to fund the ECL. Like it's not that linkage doesn't exist. Fiscal stewardship is what we have to do. That's one of the steps that we're taking. It's one of the reasons why we looked at uh whether a K2 closure was necessary. And the fact that we're backing away from that now and taking a look at a much broader process involving the community should be evidence of the fact that we're we're not linking the two. Thank you. >> Can I ask a clarification question for that slide with the Are you telling us that we're having garden assembly work session to

264kind of define the scope of those committees? >> Keep ying on this work and and the great thing is we weren't going to talk about the book. >> So we filled the time >> but we should give some thoughts before that meeting. I mean I know we always prep for the meeting but we should really have for each of those categories. you know with some uh deliverables and you know >> my six but you are correct. I'd like to see how those fit into the committees and if the committee is not going to get to one of those six will be talking about >> I have a baby >> and the very and the the very document >> can help you kind of put your ideas. Okay, we're going. All right, y'all know that I

265talk fast. I'm going to talk fast as I usually do, but if you need me to slow down like my students used to tell me, raise your hand or just let me know because they when I get excited, I talk fast as well. Um, I am here. Good afternoon, board. Um I am here to provide an update on our strategic plan. Um with a specific focus today on our balance scorecard um specifically going to take you a little bit just through our journey real quickly. This just shows the development of our all indicator strategic plan. As you know um those of you who are on the board during the 22 23 school year it was developed it was developed with stakeholder input. That was a year-long process. In 232 24 was the hiring of Dr.

266Whitaker. Um and we really brought coherence to the strategic plan, the 90-day um findings from Dr. Whitaker and the charter system contract as well. And in that year, we were able to refine those objectives. So we have 16 objectives underneath the four strategic accelerators. Um and then we were also able to identify the um uh the the or we also then started aligning stuff to those strategic accelerators and objectives. So we created the board management oversight plan for the following year so that that could all be aligned. Last year um we shared with you in that May retreat the executive summaries that align those key milestone activities for each of those 16 objectives and this year we're continuing to execute our priorities. Um and we have all of those foundational tools in place and we're

267continuing to make progress on each of them so that we can let you know where we are, manage any risks and celebrate achievements. So this should look super familiar. This is just what I spoke to. We know the all indicator strategic plan. You hear it at every board meeting for every presentation and there's the four strategic accelerators and underneath each are four objectives for a total of the 16 objectives that we have. So here's where we are in the journey, right? The strategic plan was rolled up in 23 24. We are at the top of the mountain y'all. We are halfway through the strategic plan. Um we have climbed, we have worked and you know downhill can be a little bit of work too. Um, but this is where we are and where we're going.

268And so we're halfway through. So it's a really great point to check in and see how we're doing on each of our objectives so that we know that we will make it by the 2728 school year, which is the end of the strategic plan, adjusting as necessary. So that's just kind of a good analogy to keep in mind for where we've been, who we are, and where we're going when you think about it. All right. So you're familiar with the board management oversight plan. This is published on our website. It is something that is created every spring for the following year. This is so important. It was introduced in 2425 because it highlights the plan topics for each board meeting. So right here it's a line down the left by board meeting month across the

269top by the strategic accelerators and in the middle where it meets it tells a presentation that you can expect. So that helps us and we make sure for each of those 16 objectives that it's covered. oftentimes it might be in a state of so sometimes um state will then cover those objectives. So that's a way to make sure we're being transparent and accountable to each of the objectives and providing updates to you the board as we go along. So that's kind of where we start off so that we know what it is that we're providing. Now we know sometimes it's subject to change and it'll be responsive as needed. So the main presentations remain the same. Sometimes things might fluctuate and move. For example, CCRPI release date sometimes changed. So, we have to change that

270student data focus. Um, we had a change through a board retreat to change our policy timeline because we wanted to push up those facility policies. So, some of the changes caused other adjustments in there as well. So, it is our our kind of road map, but there are things that change sometimes, but it does provide transparency of what topics are going to be discussed and accountability. You'll notice also there's a student data focus column. So we know that we're what when certain data points come up as some of those indicators um kind of our checks along the way um as well as the budget as well as kind of the policy as well. So that lets us know kind of from the board where there's perspectives. Last year we worked with you all on executive

271summaries. So this is also linked in assembly and available to the public but it provides the highle overview for each of the 16 strategic plan objectives. So in there it gives major milestones um and when we expect to meet them so where we are on that mountain journey so that we'll know that by 2028 what all has been implemented and it allows us to kind of keep us um on task and on in scope of project there. So it also serve as a transparency and accountability tool. So the balance scorecard is now our measurement and our evaluation tool. Right? So all of these tools help us ensure the execution of a strategic plan. This is where we publish our 16 key performance indicators, right? And as a reminder, our KPIs are our lagging indicators. We

272have formative measures along the way to help us ensure that we are on track. But when we talk about KPIs and reporting on KPIs as I am today, it helps us measure and evaluate our work from that lagging indicator that we've identified alignment to each strategic or each strategic objective there. So, I'm actually going to click and go live for you real quickly. And this is our public view right here. So, this is available to the public. Um, a couple of things to note. I'm actually here in the reports when you first come in. It's under planning and all indicator. That's our strategic plan. And more than one way to skin a cat, but one way is we can go to reports and our balance scorecard. So, here you can see our strategic accelerators and

273each of our objectives. All right. Most of our objectives, remember there are 16, have one KPI. You'll notice within strategic accelerator one, three of them have more than one KPI. It's really the same measure, but it's just divided up. So in this first one around high quality standardsbased instruction, it all has to do with CCRPI content mastery, but you'll see that we divide it into elementary, middle, high, ELA, and math, for example, um or in the high school of the EOC courses. All right, so you can kind of get an idea here as we go through. Same thing for 1B, we break up star, which is our measure, but we break it into the grades ELA and math. All right. start was not available because this is really now we can talk about it because

274we did um we were doing math four >> correct so that's why you'll see these gray I'm going to get there in just a minute and then same thing in 1D you'll see there's more than one KPI but again kind of the same thing they all have to do with content mastery and content mastery of our subgroups in different subjects or measured areas all right so you'll see there but then our others objectives again strategic at accelerator the four objectives underneath and the KPI that is aligned to it. All right. And so the others are one to one this morning. Why is there a blank yellow? >> Yep. I'm going to go there in just a second. All right. So couple of things you can glean from this. Right. And I'll leave this up right

275here. A couple of things you can glean. That's how we read it and what it's telling us. Now, our baseline data, right, was was here. So, we have those 16 objectives, four for each, but we have 43 total KPIs for the reasons I just said. So, um, when we're looking at this, a couple of things. What it shows is it shows now several years of data. So, the 2223 school year was our baseline data when it was available because some of the measures like STAR was not being used. That's in gray right now. All right. You will also see if it's in green where we're actually adding in our data. If it's green, it means we met or exceeded. So for us, we went from 73 at the baseline year 22 23 24 we moved

276to 74%. So it was an increase because the measure for this one has to do with a percent increase. You can see in 2425 it went to 73%. So it is turned red. So the green means meets or exceeds. The yellow means improvement but did not meet. All right. So, we're making some progress and that might be okay. It might be that's just where we are on our mountain journey. We might not expect to make it until we hit 2028. ECLC building a facility we might not make. We weren't expected to make it this year, but we're making improvement towards it. So, you would see that the gray just means it's not um evaluated or it's just not applicable. And if it's blank, it's because it's currently pending. The data is lagging still. We don't

277have it yet. >> But how I understand the gray. How could we know that it's yellow if we don't have the date? >> Great. So, um I'm going to show you that for that one. So, in this one, um it had to do expand and diversify student offerings. So, um that one has to do with um well, what this means is it was coded by its owner as making progress because we are um improving upon doing those offerings. So, we're expanding the number and that was done there. I'm going to I said more than one way to skin a cat a minute ago. So, if I go to KPIs here, I don't like this view. There's multiple views. So, I'm going to group by the plan item so it's in that same order. that makes

278sense to me here. And here it gives a little more details for my folks who are detail oriented like myself. And here we can see students actively involved in expanded offerings. And there's a notes column here. Oftentimes you can hover over the other one. We established the tracking system. So we're making progress. Yellow isn't bad in this case because we've got it on our major milestones in our executive summary to get it done by 2028, but we're on track according to the milestones that we've set because we've established our tracking system at this time. Does that help? >> Okay. So, again, more than one way. This one you can see if you wanted more details some of the stats. You'll see some are blank. We have two that are blank. The Georgia DOE climate star

279rating usually comes in about March. Um, so we expect that. So we don't have that data yet. For example, and we're our fingers are crossed, but our variance of 2% on our budget, we're waiting for the final budget audit to be completed. We heard last uh our last board meeting that we believe we'll be at that 2%, but once the audit comes in, we'll be able to code that officially. So the climates is that just the stars or do you remember in our August retreat I thought we looked at lagging stuff that's related to the Yep. >> Yep. Correct. And it was it it's just it's a lagging indicator. All these are lagging indicators. Right. And again we're measuring along the way other milestones other accountability tools but this is that transparency tool that lets

280us know from the key performance indicators exactly what we're going. Now, once again, this lets us know kind of where we are, how we are on track, and how we are doing. And I forgot to >> I know I got to go back to the presentation. I was like, sorry. >> Or do you have any questions about any of the KPIs that are listed there? >> And this is all fronting for >> Yes. So just how Amanda went and toggle to say okay you can go back to the KPI view and group by this and group by that all anyone who is goes into assembly can see all of that information to that level of detail. >> I was not logged in I was a public user just now on the computer. So it wasn't

281Amanda's view it was the public view. Um and this is just a summary of kind of what I just scrolled through really quickly. So for this year right now we have 23 of our 43 indicators are that green that meets or exceeds. Four of 43 are improvement but did not meet. Eight are no change or declined. I want to draw your attention to no change. So even if we made no change it looks red. It might not actually seem as like as red makes you feel sometimes. Um six of 43 were not evaluated. And we have those two that I indicated um that are pending. So, and a few things even on the red ones, most of them were related to the student achievement ones and they were really small declines like maybe a percent

282or two and all but I believe two were still above our baseline here. I think for me though, and tell me if I'm wrong, looking at the student achievement stuff, at the high school level, the American lit EOC is really the only data point for writing, right? The US history EOC doesn't have writing the bi. So to me, that is kind of important because it's the only test I believe that measures student writing across the board, right? like you got IBD and you got your AMD kids. >> Yeah. It's the KPI that we've identified for that particular um or standards. Yeah. All right. So, we're using this to monitor. So, you know, one of the things we need to be aware of is anytime that, you know, as we're monitoring, we're doing if a project

283is um in danger of not meeting that 2028, you know, of course, we would want to have conversations around our KPIs and where are we and what adjustments do we need to make in order to ensure that we can carry out that strategic plan within the five years as indicated. So, um I think you you asked a great question before, you know, like are there any questions about, you know, the deterrent KPIs? Anything that might need to be addressed with our progress or anything? >> All right. One last thing. Thank you. Members of the board to the representative. Although financial operations impact our four strategic accelerators, budget parameters and priorities file directly under strategic accelerator number four, organizational effectiveness and excellence. So, so this month I presented to you all the fiscal year 26 budget

284parameters and priorities. They have been updated for fiscal year 27. So are there any discussions or input into the parameters and priorities under organization effectiveness conducted? >> Want to revise any change at this is set to go come to you just like the SAG set to come to you for consent agenda next month in December. So, here's the opportunity. When we brought it to you at the board work session, there really wasn't any feedback. Just like, okay, continue doing that. Um, one question did come up and um that came from uh board member H. Hearnden and he asked the question, go to the next slide. He asked a question about the third bullet. Maximize revenue from state quality basic education which is QBE by improving full-time equivalent which is called FTE count coding scheduling and

285staffing allegations. The next page in your binder under seven this little chart. >> Yes, this is your chart. So the blue line at the top is your enrollment at the high school at all of the October FTEES. October FTE22, I was it October FTE23 is when I said we have to change the master schedule because we are leaving money on the table. We made the change and then you see October 24th and October 25. October 25 is what happened two months ago. So, >> but the schedule changes occurred between 23 and 24. >> So, that's the high school. So you went from 6,00 I mean 6,800 to 7,900 and you did not substantially change the number of students >> except the enrollment. What did change is the count coding and the schedule. Then you look

286at it for the middle school. You see the enroll at first, which is the yellow line. And so the enrollment has gone from 1,323 to 1,310. But you see here the actual QBE earnings. So 22 I wasn't here. 23 I was here and said we need to really take a look at this third bullet and then you can see we went from 5 million3 5.3 to now we're at 5.9 and that is with a few fewer less students. So I know many in the community have asked questions about well what is QBE and what is FTE and what is count coding and what is what is schedule how is scheduling linked to those things and linked to staffing allocations. Those are a lot of educational terms but this is what it boils down to from

287a fiscal standpoint. So, I just wanted I mean Jen, you asked for it. You wanted to know if it made a difference. >> Yeah. So, prior to the schedule change, they're getting $3,771 per student at the high school. And this October, we got $4,277 per student. So, literally $55 more because we do a different schedule >> Per student. And it's not really >> at the middle school. the exact same thing. It went from $4,066 to $4,57. I got that by just dividing the total budget by the total. >> And it's not necessarily that cut and dry because depending upon your disability or gifted or what have you, sure, that determines different weights, which determines different FTEES, which ultimately comes into a different QB patient or earn. But >> but >> at a at a very

288high level, >> yeah, a 2% >> Wow. The 2% pay increase that you're proposing for salaries from an HR is covered by the switch >> law. >> So that's where understanding your budget parameters and priorities is important to see to say this is what this means. But I think another way I look at it and I want to be able to unlook at it is that there's been like yeah it appears the 6 million or six whatever 927 like almost a million increase the two years right >> more than >> so and that's great but am I correct in saying that also means those teachers pre that were not doing an extra class Right. Or I talked about like the grading policy and the regrade. And so when I look at this, I also wonder

289though or teachers doing more work for that extra QBE. >> That additional QBE was because you had on a count day, >> right? >> Classes that were not count like that did not carry FTE weight. >> Yeah. No, I understand that. But I thought that also meant that the tools for success class which is a new class that burns QBE right >> which is but that's not sitting in your account. >> So you have to understand the master's schedule >> to really see when you should put things and when you shouldn't put things on a Tuesday and a Thursday is not when you should put win time. And that's ultimately what we were do. We had win time on a Tuesday and Thursday. I I I I So you're saying you want to make sure

290that that 1.1 million gives someone back of extra labor on >> like fundamentally if the teachers are doing more. >> Yeah. I would be a little if there weren't um $10,000 per teacher increase over that two years and scores weren't going up. I think that that I'd have a little more agreement with you there. >> Well, but then I'm you know I'm looking at the American PC score and it went down to 69%. That's right. And um college and career readiness as a global score was good, but when you look at the finer numbers, what I saw was we were at 70% for students who don't need remedial college work this year, but it was 70 to I'm sorry. So it was total it went from 70 72 to 75 and then 37 to 32.

291So I, you know, I just think it might be worth looking at. I understand what you're saying. We were maximizing QBE. That sounds phenomenal for fiscal responsibility, but are we looking specifically at the high school >> if the high school teachers are doing more? >> So the the number of classes that American teacher is teaching is not different this year than it was two years ago. >> I do remember the conversation she's talking about was especially around like the wind time days of the week. I I think it's planning. >> Well, yeah, but I think some of it was that with this shift, they were teaching x number of classes and this required that another class be added on. However, the counterpoint was that some days of the week, they were actually teaching fewer classes

292than perhaps they than maybe some of their counterparts had been because of things like win. My my question was it was minutes and I guess I would like to know more about I loved the return on investment that we saw right from the kind of technology the tutor made um you know I think it's I looked at I was going to coffee house with a friend over the summer and there were two IB teachers there and I believe they were reviewing those IB essays that y'all might have to write over the summer that kind of stuff like we've got other teachers that work 210 days and they're not bound to the same kind of school schedule, right? And then we have teachers working 190. And so, like I said, the QBE earnings are great, but

293I guess I'd like to little know a little bit more about um the return on that time investment for students and teachers. if there is more time that was taken away from the teachers to get the QBE. I think that my first points came up a couple years ago when we first made the spell schedule was they did they not have enough classes on schedule block days anyway? that was sort of the starting point that especially with wind time when wind time kind of hung over from the pandmic did they not have enough total like you're saying class minutes over the day that they should have had um so I think and I remember this comes up at GSBA a lot is maximizing QBE earnings based on schedule because you know it's it's something that

294we have to do to make sure that you were able to like you say you know maximize your your your revenue from state funing one way that you simply have to do it. I think your point is valid. just go back and that up. make sure that um you know that we haven't like we're not you know breaking their backs to do it but that they are teaching the required number of >> because am I right with the calendar survey from 24 which predates this change not the new calendar but I thought when we looked at the calendar at the board meeting with the work day that was based on I think was it 2425 survey data we could look at C. to that survey data when I believe teachers were asking for more time

295which is why I think the calendar has that new or continued additional workday right I'd like to know if that survey was before some of these changes to see were teachers asking for time even before we did some uh teachers were asked the first time that it came up in TAC was last school year which is 2425 that is when the the ask came up for a teacher birthday and so that's when we started working it in. That's a great example of how you ask for feedback is not in the survey but it becomes actionable. So it we took the survey survey the calendar to TAC last week and so I I think it was we took it to PTO last week and we took it to TA last week. So we have that data

296and what we're doing is triangulating it and it's still out there. Question these parameters do you want to change? So we looked at the first slide this is the second slide. >> It's funny to me that some of them are against each other. >> Maintaining competitive compensation charge for all employees is direct is potentially directly counterintuitive to the previous slides. Maintain the tax roll back stuff. >> Yeah. And that's where the conversation with you all really comes into play and the timeline for that conversation. Can't do millage recommendations until we have a firm numbers. And I think that's something we need to make sure we >> will we be looking at a return on that return on investment kind of comes for safety and security because I think a lot of that is this year

297and then safety aotments were suggesting even more security >> what a lot with the red line additional security stuff >> that was the update that was just modif in SA. >> I was already no one's asking for more. That's just saying that that decision was made before the SA was produced last year. Now I put it as codifying and put it in here. But return on investment as is not an academic return on investment does not say you know you can say whether or not the evolve work better than open gate and the air their cost analysis but that's a system that's what that academic ROI is. He's not person. >> I mean, I'll be honest. I've been doing morning duty in the ball. If I had been doing it last year, I would have

298had a much different um explanation of how I would have decided to >> you haven't you haven't enjoyed your experience. >> It's not even the enjoyment. It's just watching the methodology. Now, I don't know. Maybe my school does it different. >> I I will say there's no modifier for safety and security and there is one for all the others, right? Like it's equitable outcomes. It's competitive compensation. It's improving and then for some reason it's just like just invest. >> Yeah, I think we can put a modifier in it. A lot of the safety and security is actually being uh driven by law, >> right? It's just meeting state using grants, right? >> Yeah. >> But if we're going to go above and beyond a grant, right, I would like it not just be invest but

299invest in I don't know whether equitable or sponsive or successful or We can do that. >> And I wanted to add uh new in front of invest in early child new early childhood learning center. >> Okay. Put new there. Responsive in there. Okay. Good. Good. All right. So, you're dismissed. Let's keep going. This is the timeline. Yeah. So this is the timeline saying time. Yeah. So again we'll vote on the parameters and priorities at the next. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Dr. >> Thank you. >> Oh I just have one question before I'm sorry I don't mean to delay any of these things. Um for the for the budget feedback that you get there um do you in turn respond to you respond to those questions? Do you get questions? Do you

300get get it all? Questions, feedbacks, comments. >> When you get feedback like, "Hey, you should spend $100,000 on, I don't know, whatever new bathrooms for the children at Vegan Hill." Um, do you when you get stuff like that, do you decide do you send that on to Dr. Whitaker? When do you decide that some of those things need to be highlighted for the board to see as we plan the budget? So we send I send a monthly topic to you. >> So yeah, I get I get that. But do you I mean I'm trying to clarify. Yeah. Dr. L and I work together because she looks at feedback. >> Okay. And you at points in time kind of collate it to see if you see things like you know 20 people asked for bathroom renovations.

301Okay. And then take that back to us. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. I just want to thank you. >> Is that it? Okay. Thank you for attending our retreat. Our next board of education meeting will take place on December 9th, 2025 at the Wilson Center. There being no further business. This meeting is aured at 5:15