001staff res. Sorry. Good evening. I'm high school. I would get excited when I get to announce these students that I'm up, but I feel like my family's here tonight because I have my great staff and support here. So, I'm thrilled to introduce them to you. So, um it doesn't matter who goes first. So, I'm going to start actually with our volunteer of the month because he's been up here once and um our band program went through a few changes earlier in the year and we are thrilled now to have a new director Miller. got to see. But um right when all these changes were taking place, Doner, a former um booster member came in sort of like Superman with his king in the background and pleased to help us to ensure that our students have
002the best experience as possible given everything changer. is our booster president and like I said a little bit of a superman and Don is a dedicated volunteer at AJ bringing enthusiasm and unwavering support to our band program. His commitment and positive spirit make a lasting impact on our students fostering a love for music and teamwork. Whether helping behind the scenes or cheering on our musicians, Don embodies the best of our school and district. We are grateful for your time, energy, and the encouragement that you bring to our staff and students every day. And then I wanted to share what Miss Brianna Miller um said, our band director. Don has been an amazing support to the band program. From the beginning, he has been supportive. Without his help, we would not have been able to get
003the band to the Lost Dutchman Marathon. His support and effort has helped my transition into this program immensely. I am so thankful for everything he has done to help our band students. Thank you, Don. Y Thank you. Not yet. All right. Next, I'd like to call up our certified teacher, Robert Walker. Come on down, Robert. All right. He's very shy. All right. All right. So, Robert Walker is a passionate and dedicated educator who brings science to life for his students for his high school students through engaging lessons, hands-on experience. My goodness, I'm tongue tied for you for some reason. Experiments and real world connections. He inspires a curiosity, and a love for learning, which is critical for our students today. I am thankful for your contributions both in and out of the classroom. Um, again,
004another small staffing change this year. We had an athletic director change and Robert was also similarly with the cape and came in and said, "Whatever you need, I'm there." And he continued to excel in the classroom during the day, engaging his students and being a favorite and then helped our athletic program in the evening. So, I'm going to share what Melinda Oar, our athletic director, said. She said, "Robert's dedication and support, particularly in athletics, have been truly invaluable. Whether it's helping with afterchool events, athletic games, or stepping in to cond cover additional duties when needed, Robert is always willing to lend a hand. His positive attitude and eagerness to help him make an indispensable part of Apache Junction High School. And then one more from one of his colleagues. Yes, this is from Marl Emmens,
005his department chair. She says, "I wanted to take a moment to highlight the exceptional contributions of Mr. Walker, our science teacher. He consistently goes above and beyond in his role, not just within his own department, but across the school. His willingness to assist teachers in other departments speaks volumes about his dedication and teamwork. Moreover, Mr. Walker is incredibly well-liked by both his colleagues and students. All right, I could go on and on. There are so many great things about you. So, thank you for all you do for contributing to our high school. Okay, everything's falling down. All right, last but not least is our um classified worker, Susan Oratia. She is our registar. All right, so come on up. Here she is. All right. So, come on down. It is a wonderful, wonderful thing as
006a high school principal to not have to worry about what my registar is doing. So, she oversees enrollment, registration, and really attendance as a supervisor there. Um, so I want to say that Susan Ortia is invaluable to our school community providing exceptional support as our registar. Her attention to detail and com commitment to compliance ensure that our attendance and student enrollment processes run smoothly and follow all regulations. Your knowledge, efficiency, and dedication make a tremendous impact, and I'm incredibly grateful for your help. Susan's hard work behind the scenes help keeps our school organized and running effectively, and I genuinely appreciate all that she does. Just very quickly, Miss Voss says that you go above and beyond to make a difference at Apache Junction High School. Your efforts to make students, staff, parents feel welcomed and
007appreciated does not go unnoticed. Your positive attitude, teamwork, and dedication to excellence make her a valuable asset. Mr. Lazar says, "Susan Orantia is an exceptional register. She's a true asset to Apache Junction High School." He also said, "You're efficient and conscientious about processing enrollments and inquiring all of the required documentation. You are a team player and a wonderful employee." And then one more. Jenny Powell says, "As our dedicated school registar, you play a vital role in ensuring smooth operations, keeping records accurate, assisting students, staff, and families with kindness and professionalism. I am grateful that I have the opportunity to work with her on a daily basis. Not only is she an amazing co-orker, but also a friend to all. So, how lucky am I to be able to work with these three amazing people? [Applause]
008each other. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm still up here. I'm still up here. I have more. I am so lucky to have so many great people to talk about. What what a joy it is for me as a principal. So, I'm going to introduce to you Gideon Neman, a 12th grader at Apache Junction High School. Come on down. Come on down. Gideon's favorite subject is English. His favorite activity is spending time at church with family. He plans to go to GCU for biblical studies and pursue pastoral ministry. He loves to learn about theology, science, and history. Learning is his favorite thing to do. I mean, as a principal, like, can you ask for anything more right there? It's beautiful. And he's a nice guy, too. His wish is that the people of AJHS would come to
009know Christ and be motivated to do great things. Also, he wants to buy a house. So, not you know, not last but not least, I like it. All right, I want to share his art teacher says, "Congratulations, Gideon is an amazing young gentleman. He is a true role model. Gideon is always willing to help others and is also consistently on task. He so truly deserves this accolade for Miss Allen. And his math teacher says Gideon truly has grit. He is an amazing friend and a peer who always willing to help others. He is kind and respectful to everyone around him. He is an astounding young man. Congratulations from Miss Clizzy. It's an honor to be your principal. Thank you. One more rock star to bring up. Miss Shay Richards in 11th grade. Here she is.
010[Applause] Miss Sha's favorite subject is English literature. She loves watching movies and shows. She's going to go to school and study law. She loves to learn new things about the people because she loves it makes her happy to know them and they're happy to be known. I love that she would wish for those with good and right intentions in life to have their dreams come true because that's what they deserve. Such beautiful thought. Shay, let me tell you what your history teacher said. Are you ready? All right, good. Shay is an amazing student and a pleasure to work with and have in my US history class. She is a hardworking and determined student with a great attitude and a work ethic that puts her above and beyond many of her peers and will prepare her
011for future goals and career. All right. Your math teacher says you are an outstanding student in algebra 2 class. You are hardworking, engaged, and always eager to learn. Your positive attitude and willingness to learn make you a joy to teach. You truly deserve this recognition from Mr. Ouri. I'm also thrilled to be your principal. Congratulations. All right, here comes Miss Kelly Font, the principal at Desert Vista, to share her students with you. All right. Thank you, Mrs. Gin, Madame President, members of the board, Dr. Papalardo, members of the community, colleagues, and families. My name is Kelly Fant, and I am the principal of Desert Vista. Um, I'm honored to present two of Desert Vista's remarkable fifth grade students for recognition tonight. Unfortunately, I'm not sure why one of the students doesn't seem to be here,
012but I thought they were going to be. But I will talk about both of them because I do think that they both deserve their recognition. So, I would like to start off with our first one, uh, Delaney Garcia. [Applause] Delaney, who's been a Mustang since kindergarten, says that her favorite thing about Desert Vista is that everyone is kind and it's easy to make new friends. Her favorite subject is math, and she likes learning about fractions, which is not usually one of people's favorites, but super necessary. Her favorite book is the entire Diary of the Wimpy Kid series. And she's at a 640 in EXL for reading, which means that's middle of sixth grade level there, and has met or exceeded expectations on all of her math benchmarks. She had a hard time picking a favorite
013teacher, but she did mention Miss Martinez, which was her fourth grade teacher last year, because she's kind and made things fun. She likes to play soccer and is part of an outside soccer club. She also likes to play with her dogs Zazu and Juni and do arts and crafts with her family. And her goal is to become a defense attorney. Her teachers say her teachers say because my fifth grade is departmentalized. So she sees three different teachers. Delaney is a type of student every teacher dreams about. You know she will be a successful person and you are just happy that you get the chance to say that you taught her. She walked into the class on the first day, already a hard worker who treats everyone with respect. She has nothing but friends in school.
014You never have to worry about her choices. You trust her at her word. People are better off because they know her. Her parents did a great job raising her. They should be extremely proud. So, congratulations, Delaney. And the second my second student um unfortunately he's not here. His name is Lorenzo Seron. Um he's a very wellspoken young man and we had some amazing conversations getting to know him um and about the fact that he loves learning about science and history and he really likes um medieval times. So I'm sure he's gonna have yeah look forward to him at the junior high and stuff when you start working with that. Um, and he's built a Minecraft world that has has a castle in it. He looked in Google, made sure it was accurate and everything. Um,
015he told me that he probably knows the most because I asked him, I said, well, what part of history do you know the most about? And he said, well, probably Operation Barbarosa, a battle during World War II in the Soviet Union. I'm like, okay. And he went on to explain all of this to me. And I had to go look it up. I'm like, what is he talking about? Um, he did have the opportunity to visit Switzerland and Paris a few years ago, but because he is such a history buff, he would like to go back and visit Awitz and learn more about that part of history. Not much you would think about a fifth grader wanting to do something like that. Um, academically, he's exceeding expectations in both ELA and math as he's showing
016mid6th grade in both areas. He wants to be a physicist or if that doesn't pan out, he wants to go into educational reform and work on finding ways to make learning more engaging so that students will want to learn. Kind of goes on par with what we've just recently been talking about. I didn't even prompt that. Just came out of his teachers. Um his teachers say that Lorenzo consistently demonstrates a strong work ethic and takes pride in his accomplishments. He sets a positive example for his peers through his unwavering dedication and commitment to his tasks. His willingness to go above and beyond reflects his pursuit of excellence, and he tackles each challenge with determination and a positive attitude. Lorenzo's focus and perseverance inspire those around him, making him a valuable role model in the classroom.
017With his hard work, dedication, and drive for excellence, Lorenzo's future possibilities are limitless and will undoubtedly open many doors for him. We are proud to have we are proud to have both Delaney and Lorenzo as Desert Vista students of the month. And now I would like to bring up Miss Braxma, principal of Four Peaks. Governing board president, um board members, Dr. Pablardo, staff and community. I'm excited to introduce our two uh fourth peak student of the month. So, I will start with inviting Giovana to come on up. This is Giovana Ricabono. She is a fourth grade student in Miss Whey's class. Uh, this is her first year in Apache Junction schools and it is her first year in a public school. She wanted me to know that and I said, "Really?" She goes, "Yeah." And
018I asked her, "Well, what do you think of public schools?" She goes, she loves it. She goes she loves that there are more opportunities for her such as clubs. She said she is a member of our school yearbook club and she enjoys art and designing pages for the yearbook. She also says that she loves public school like she said because it's amazing. So Miss Whe has to say this about her. She says that she nominated Giovana not only because of her hard work but also because of her academic excellence. She is consistently excels in every subject, whether it's math, reading, or science, and always strives to do her best. She goes above and beyond in her assignments by doing extension projects, research, and even creating games or activities to go along with our units to
019practice our standards with her peers. So, what makes Giovana even more special is her kindness and her willingness to help others. She inspires her classmates and helps me, her teacher, to foster a classroom full of curiosity and love of learning. Congratulations, Giovana, for representing Full Peaks um as our student of the month for March. [Applause] Now I would like to invite Nathan de la Cruz. So this is Nathan. So this is Nathan. He is also one of our fourth grade students um at Four Peaks. He is in Miss Taylor's class is here to support Nathan. He started school at Four Peaks in first grade. Nathan says that he also enjoys participating in clubs after school with his favorite was being STEM club. Uh he enjoyed the projects and the things that they used to do
020in um this club. He also says that music is his favorite class because he enjoys the music. He says that he would like to be an architect and design homes one day. And Miss Taylor says this about Nathan. She says that Nathan is consistently cheerful and supportive individual who brings a delightful energy to the classroom. His kindness shines through as he frequently lends a helping hand to his classmates. Contributing to a welcoming and uplifting atmosphere for everyone. With a great sense of humor, Nathan enjoys uh Nathan jokes never failed to bring laughter and joy to his peers, making even the most challenging days feel lighter. Each day he arrives with a bright smile, eager to engage in learning and ready to tackle new challenges. His positive attitude and willingness to assist others not only enhances
021his own educational experience, but also inspires those around him to be their best selves. So, congratulations, Nathan. Next, I would like to invite Pat Smith, our principal at Peralta Trail. Good evening, Madam President. Good evening, Madam President, members of the board, Dr. Papalardo, family, community members. I'm Pat Smith, a proud principal of Peralta Trail, and tonight I get to recognize two of our amazing Bobcats. The first student I'd like to bring up is Emilyn Woody. Emilyn goes by Emmy on our campus and her teacher, Miss Nichum, shared that Emmy is such a bright and sweet girl. She is always pushing herself to succeed. She always does her best on her work, asks for help when she needs it, and is always super caring and respectful. Emmy has had perfect attendance all year long so far,
022scored the highest on our ASA math practice test, and makes the classroom so much fun. Keep up your hard work. Your teacher is so proud of you. And I also want to add that Emmy is a remarkable scholar on our campus who brings so much in her role as a role model for others to follow. She is compassionate, respectful, trustworthy, and responsible. Those are four words that I use to describe you as a great citizen at Peralta Trail, but also those words describe Emmy as a scholar on our campus towards her learning. I am so proud. I am so proud of your perfect attendance this year, but also Emmy had perfect attendance all last year and it was my honor to be with her when she was recognized at our AJ High School graduation ceremony
023and she received that rec recognition and an award for her perfect attendance. So, she's trying to get it again this year. Good job, Emmy. Keep up the hard work. You have a smile that lights up a room and you are destined to do great things in this world. We are also proud of you and you deserve to be recognized as one of our students of the month for Peralta Trail. Congratulations. The next student I'd like to bring up is Aiden Rosalo level in both reading and math after growing 70 points this year so far on both of those content areas. He loves being challenged and does well on class assignments and projects. He also enjoys helping being a teacher assistant in gent classes with our younger grade levels where he demonstrates what he knows about
024coding. He has also shown his intelligence and collaboration this year by being an active participant in the Lego League and also our STEM builders club. I would also, as his principal, like to add how impressed I am by Aiden when I come into his classroom and see his critical thinking skills put to the test. He loves to explain his reasoning and justify how something works or is solved. When I see this, I think future engineer or lawyer. He loves to argue with his points. Aiden is truly an amazing scholar and a fun person to be around. He is a leader at Peralta Trail and I look forward to seeing what all he will continue to accomplish. Way to go Aiden. Congratulations on this award. We are all so proud of you and we know great
025things are ahead for you. Congratulations to both of our At Mr. Russell Paperman, the principal at Cactus Canyon Junior High. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Madam President, Madame President, school board, Dr. Papalardo, families, students, community, and and staff. For Cactus Can, I'd like to present our two students of the month, which are just really doing great job on campus. The first one is Jasine Pandexter. [Applause] some messages from her teachers. Jasine is a very good student. She tries very hard and keeps up with her peers. She's a good role model for her other students. Jasine is an amazing student. Jasine is an amazing student. She keeps attentive and does her best to keep her peers on task around her. She has the most contagious smile and her effort on every assignment is
026appreciated. Is an honor to have her in class. From Miss Romero, Jasine is a very bright student in and out of the classroom. Her bubbly personality and willingness to help her peers is commendable. Jasine's favorite subject is math. Her favorite hobby is diamond painting, which I had no idea what it was, so I had to Google it. And I think that might be my next hobby. It actually looks like a lot of fun. Um, and her favorite food is fetuccene Alfredo. [Laughter] Really does. Our next student is Ethan McQuary. [Applause] Some messages from the teachers about Ethan. Ethan is a bright and hardworking student. He always comes prepared and ready to work. He's an excellent example to his peers. Ethan is not afraid to step in whenever he is needed. He is an honest and
027hardworking student that treats everyone with respect, including the adults. Ethan's favorite subject is also math. His activities are basketball and band. He wants to go to GCU. He wants to go to GCU goes and he wants a major in and he wants a major in engineering and technology and his favorite food is and his favorite food is Mississippi pot roast. So we know who's bringing pot next pot lock, right? Congratulations [Applause] guys. No matter what, I'm [Laughter] always smiles. Congratulations. Congratulations. We're going to take a 10-minute break. Adios. Miss Vern, are we ready? Sure. Okay, we're going to resume our meeting. Okay, on to information and discussion items. 4.1 memorandum of understanding of Arizona mental health teleaalth pilot with cartwheel health services PC. Madam President, Madam President, Ward members, community members, superintendent Tom Horn made
028this agreement with the cart cartwheel um group to provide teleaalth to rural areas that he started that in January. We met with them and so we're proposing thisou to basically offer the service in addition to what we already have to help students. Um they can do it from home. They can do it at school. They still have to get um approval from their parents, go through insurance if they have it or access to what we already so it's very similar to what we already have but we're just providing another opportunity and in this case it would be teleaalth. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Um Dr. Popard is anything you want to add? I think it's a great I think it's a great opportunity for our kids and families who need that service because you know
029how hard it is to get that and particularly since it's offered free from the state of Arizona for for our community. I think it's something we should do. Okay. Any questions? Any questions? Miss Williamson? Mrs. Ross, do you have any questions? No. Mrs. Garcia, any questions? I don't like Mrs. L. No, no questions. So basically, uh, Dr. Paplaro, this is really not a US thing. It's it's a state thing. It's a state thing. We're just offering. We're just a conduit to help them get sign up. So, it's an optin. Yeah, you can opt in or not. Okay. Thank you. All right. Let's move on to the consent agenda. Somebody like to make a motion on the consent agenda. Can I am I have discussion on the consent agenda? I have a question. That's part of
030the action item. What is it? Did you want to pull something on? No, I I just I was I was questioning a position that I don't remember the board voting for. So, I just wanted to see I just had a question about the but I don't know if are we allowed to talk about it or it's just a regular position. Yeah. So, the junior high assistant principal position can you has the board approved that position or you used to have a junior high position position. We're just bringing that position back because you had currently you have deans and we're switching that out to an assistant principal. So, they have one. So, prior to the deans, we had assistant principles and then we went to deans, but the position never was like removed. It never was
031removed. There's still a description. Okay. I just wanted to make sure before Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, Madame President, I'd like to make a motion to approve the consent agenda. We have a motion. Would somebody like to second? I'll second. Miss Lean seconds. Mrs. Ross. Yes. Mrs. Williamson. Yes. Mrs. Garcia. Yes. Mrs. Yes. And I'm a yes. That motion passes 5 to zero. Okay. On to action items. 6.1 possible action on employees health benefits for 2025 2026 school year. Come on up. Gina Salazar. You want to give us a rundown? Uh yes. Good evening, Madam President, governing board members, Dr. Papalardo, colleagues, and community. Pasco and I have been meeting with Valley Schools uh regarding our renewal benefits and we are sticking with them for next year. Um we did everything to keep the rates
032the same for employees so they wouldn't be paying any extra. In order to do that we did have to raise the out of pocket maximum and this is for the in network um providers. So we are moving to um 6,500 for an individual and 13,000 for family. And previously it was uh 5,000 and 10,000 for the traditional PO plan and 4500 and 9,000 for the HDHP plan and everything else will be the same. And by moving to this um this direction we will be saving 41,000 in the budget next year. Um our vision plan is we're with the same company. That's the only thing that has increased but the benefits it only went up maybe less than a dollar for each person. So it's just cents for that they'll be paying monthly. Um next year
033next year however the year after next whatever they'll be switching to VSSP for vision but everything else will be the same. Okay. Any questions? Any questions? Mrs. Ross, you have any questions? No. No questions. Mrs. Williamson? No. Mrs. Garcia? No. Mrs. Dr. Paplard, is there anything you want to add? No. I think given the insurance rates of other districts that are going to be facing an increase, this is probably a pretty good deal for us. Unfortunately, the out of pocket cost has to go up in order to keep the rate down. And moving this direction also is comparable to what other districts are paying their insurance. We were paying I think 80% of employee benefits, which is a good chunk of money. So, right. Thank you, Miss Alazar. Somebody like to make a motion on
034the health benefits. Madam President, I'd like to make a motion to approve the employees health benefits for 2025 2026. We have a motion. Would somebody like to second? I'll second. Miss Lean seconds. Mrs. Ross. Yes. Mrs. Williamson. Yes. Mrs. Garcia. Yes. Mrs. Lean. Yes. And I'm a yes. That motion passes 5 to zero. Item 6.2 Two, possible action on athletic activities, clubs, extracurricular pay schedule, and classified professional growth schedule for 2025 2026 school year. Any questions on this? I don't think there's been any change. The only thing that we did change, we added um we changed some verbiage in the title. So, we added uh extra pay instead of stipens, right? Um for the classified, the professional growth, we did add classified to that. That way it wouldn't be confused with certified and and oh
035and I know in the past work session it was asked what this number meant like right before the dollar amount. Oh yeah. So u Miss Pascal found out that that is the percentage of the um like based on the base salary. So nine is 9% of 4600 or 46700 gives you that 4,23. Perfect. Other than that, everything is the same. So, the amounts haven't changed, right? Right. Any questions on that? Any questions on that, Mrs. Ross? No. No questions, Mrs. Williamson. No, Mrs. Garcia. No, I was going to ask the question that she answered. Okay. Make sure that we followed up with I think M. Ross asked that question. Mrs. Lean, any questions? No questions. No questions. Dr. Pablo, anything you want to add? Nothing to add. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion
036on the extracurricular pay schedule? Do we do we have something else? Oh, I thought you said okay. Madam President, I'd like to make a motion to approve the athletic activities club extracurricular pay schedule and classified professional growth schedule for 2025 2026 school year. We have a motion with somebody like to second. Second. Miss Le. Mrs. Ross. Yes, Mrs. Williamson. Yes, Mrs. Garcia. Yes, Mrs. Lane. Yes, and I'm yes, that motion passes 5 to zero. 6.3, possible action on the insurance proceeds funds to be used to purchase vans for transportation. Mr. Salazar, you kind of went over this at the work session. Yes. So, in last year, probably around March, um one of our buses was involved in an accident and it was totaled and the insurance company, we finally got the proceeds received on that.
037It was $125,000. Um ARS15-103 requires board approval for us to spend that um for to acquire new vehicles to replace the bus. So, we're asking that you can Can we use it for dream? No, I'm just kidding. Just kidding. Any questions on that? Mrs. Ross? No. No questions. Mrs. Williamson? No. Mrs. Garcia? No question. Mrs. Lane, I do have one question. Why are we not using the funds to purchase another bus that was totaled? Because we already purchased other buses. This is um this was purchased with Esser funds. Okay. All right. That answers the question. No question. Okay. Dr. Papalardo, anything you want to add? No. Nothing to add? No. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion? to approve the proceed funds to be used to purchase vans for transportation. Madame President, like to
038make a motion to approve the insurance proceed funds to be used to purchase vans for transportation. We have a motion. Would somebody like to second? Second. Mrs. Lane seconds. Mrs. Ross. Yes. Mrs. Williamson. Yes. Mrs. Garcia. Yes. Mrs. Lane. Yes. And on yes, a motion passes five to zero. Thank you. Item 6.4. Item 6.4. for possible action on the memorandum of understanding of Arizona mental health tea health pilot with cartwheel health service PC. Any any other questions on that? Miss Verer, you did a good job. Thank you. Mrs. Ross, do you have any other questions on that? I'm fine. No, I'm fine. Okay, Miss Williamson, no. Miss Garcia, no. Mrs. Le, no. Would somebody like to make a motion? Madam President, like to make a motion to approve the memoranda of Understanding on Arizona mental
039health telealth pilot with cartwheel health services PC. I have a motion with somebody like a second. Miss Lean seconds. Mrs. Ross. Yes. Mrs. Williamson. Yes. Mrs. Garcia. Yes. Mrs. Lean. Yes. And I'll ask a motion passes 5 to zero. On to information items. Request for future agenda items. Anybody have anything they want to put on the agenda? I would like to put um at a work session the budget anything particular or just an overview. Just want to re go over the budget. There is some questions that I had and I talked to Dr. Pabardo about it but I want to revisit it to go over it as a group. Okay. Anything else? I would like to um talk about Smith's reopening. Okay. Mrs. Ross, do you have anything? No, nothing. Thank you. Mrs. Williamson, no.
040And I know I put on the agenda for future, just so you guys know, the IB program, we're going to do an AVID update. And that's all I can think of right now. And I think we're going to have benchmarks and test scores coming up. What was the first thing you said? IB. The what? IB program. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Would somebody like to make a motion to adjurnn? Madam President like to make a motion to adjourn. We have a motion. Would somebody like to second? I'll second. Miss Lean seconds. Mrs. Ross. Yes. Mrs. Williamson. Yes. Mrs. Garcia. Yes. Mrs. Lean. Yes. And yes, that motion passes 5 to zero. origin.