Public Hearing (April)

001At this time, this is a public hearing um on the stat. [Music] Is that better? Yeah. All right. So at at this time, you know, this is public hearing to discuss the removal of G public library board appointee pursuant to Indiana code [Music] 36-12-2-20. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to read that uh at this time. Uh, Indiana Code 36-12-2-20, removal of member vacancy. Uh, section 2A, a library board member may be removed at any time by the appointing authority after public hearing for cause. One that interferes with proper discharge of the member's duties as a member of the board or two that jeopardizes public confidence in [Music] So, at this time, uh, Mr. Chair, I'd like to ask the appointee if he would like to respond. But before we get to

002that point, I'm just going to take a little I guess they call it a bully mic because I'm the president and I've got the mic. And I want to just take a moment to comment because this says board comments and thank you u sir for Mr. Johnson for reading that. But I want to take a moment um spend some time thinking about today. And and first of all um I want to say that when one is selected to represent a body um as a member of the board to represent that body. It is a lot of faith put onto that individual. And I I I think that um it takes some some knowledge of knowing that you're not only representing yourselves because you're selected because you are a person of obvious capabilities, but you're there

003to represent and support the the organization that you were appointed by. And so you should make sure that you communicate back and forth and keep them aware of what is going on. I'd like to take the opportunity to thank Mr. Bugs for his years of service to the library. [Applause] It is it is an honor to know that a gentleman as I become human more senior every day that's still committed to his community supporting his community and doing those things that are necessary to show that it's more than just talk that that's there day in and day out to support the community. So Mr. Bugs, I personally thank you for your attendance and your support of the library board and the efforts that you make in our community. Um, with more like you, we would

004be moving faster to where we want to be. So, I just want to take that time to thank you for your service and representing the Gary School Board on the library board. We appreciate your efforts. Um, now, Mr. Johnson, please continue. Um, so, um, at at this time, ask Mr. Buzz if he'd like to make any comments. [Music] Good evening, board. I'm not supposed to be making comments. This is a hearing and I am to defend myself. Oh, so I'm going to start off now. I only got 30 minutes. They give me 30 minutes. to present my side of the case, but I got to that since it's a public hearing, then the public needs to know what's going on. I got a call from uh Secretary Glenn Johnson late day before yesterday stating that

005a meeting had been scheduled to remove me from the board. I asked him why. He said, "Did you get my email?" I said, "No, I haven't checked the email." I said, "But what happened? Was it the board member or library staff?" He said, "Library staff." I said, "Who was it?" He said, "It was several of them." So then I called the director of the library, Miss Maro, and she didn't know anything about it. So now I'm here [Music] today. You want me to start over? I only got 30 minutes. My 30 minutes start by cuz I got witnesses and I got stuff I got to present because this is a hearing. It's not I'm not making comments. Please continue, sir. Pardon? Please continue. Okay. So then uh I asked him to send me a copy

006of the written complaint. Now let me let the public know what's happen. The process is if you appointee there's an allegation something against him. The process is that you call in that appointee. Let him know make him aware of the allegation by showing it to him. And number one, before I forget it, it has to be a written complaint signed and dated. I have not seen a written complaint, nor have I been told why I'm being removed. My term ends next July in 2026. So after that, I said, well, you know, I do have due process rights. You know, the sixth amendment, I have a right to face my accusers and to question that. And I still wanted to know what am I being what did I violate so that I can prepare. I still

007have not been told yet. Now I gave the board I sent an email response uh to him. So he sent me an email saying that was the wrong email. Use this one. Now in the email packet verbatim I use that email. and also having that packet where it said error, no address found. Now, I don't know whether that was intentional to say I didn't get your response or your request cuz I did a limited discovery request. Also, he is telling me that I have a right to present my case. I have a right to question whoever complained about me. He does not have the authority. The board does not have the authority to tell me how I should use my witnesses in my behalf and what they should do. He said they must sign in.

008But now you taking them your authority to tell my witnesses what they have to do. That's den process. So in order for that to be a hearing in the first place, you have to have a complaintant. And I have a right to question that complaint. I have a right to see that written complaint as to what I did. Now, he mentioned uh in that code 36-12-2-28, but there's a colon there, but he said you can remove plus C at any time. Colon means there's something to follow. Now, he never has never stated yet what I violated. So why am I being removed? He never stated yet or provided me a written complaint. You can't just willy-nilly, I'm going to pull you off the board. This has a process. Unless you violate one of these and

009they have to prove it, then this meeting is not the board. Also, this meeting is this is a hearing. This is not a school board meeting. I didn't see anywhere where it was posted notifying the public on a special hearing. It might be now I got it. I came in I saw the agenda but then they have on the school board agenda of my [Music] removal. So it's like it's already a done deal. But I am going to contest that. Uh I have minister to speak on my behalf because but the first thing uh Mr. Suggs I am requesting officially a copy of the written complaint against me as to what I did because I can't defend myself if I don't know what the allegations are. So when you I was told by Mr. Johnson

010I did it when I got here. So I need that so I can defend. I don't know what was said to me all about me or what I [Music] did and I still have 30 minutes. You have a written complaint because you can't I was on the school board for about almost 8 years and I was reelected uh in 2020 by 14,252 citizens. So I couldn't have jeopardized any companies. It appears to me that they had a lot of confidence in me because I got more votes than mayor and the city council at that time. So I need to know since this is a hearing need to see the written complaint because you can't go the school board can't just willy-nilly you you have to have a written complaint. Number one, that has to be

011something that has been done and it has to be proven that you violated. So, I'm asking the board, what did I violate? Who is the complaintant? I need that. This is a hearing me from the library board. Why am I being removed? Sir, this is your opportunity to speak. If you would like to take advantage of it, I encourage that. No. No. Otherwise, we'll move on. Mr. S, this is a hearing. I have been accused of doing something and I have a right to face my accuser by written complaint. I didn't come here just to make a comment. This is a hearing and matter of fact it says here that I have a right for discovery. I requested discovery several times to find out what that's the law by the way. to find out exactly

012what did I do so I could prepare to defend myself. The sixth amendment of the constitution says that I have a right to face my accusers and to question them as to their allegations against me. You removing me or do you have an adhering to remove me? only reason that you can remove somebody according to the statute. The process is on there, but you must this one of these must have been violated. So what did I do? This is then I have witnesses also. At what time do they come up? They supposed to this is not a come up to comment. This is a hearing. A hearing is just like a mini trial. So if I've been accused of something, I'm being removed for what cause? You have to provide it to me. What cause

013is it? I need to know. I have witnesses, but what are they going to say about, you know, what am I here for? But I do want my witnesses to speak out of it. I gave you the list. But right now, you say I can make comments and I object to that. My due process rights are being blatantly blatantly denied by this board. I'm being accused of something, but you won't tell me what it is. And you remove me, you punishing me for no cause because you won't tell me why you doing it. And you have no proof. You have no written complaint. Just like if you don't have a complaint for a crime, you don't just go on yourself. Now either this is a personal retaliation because I came before this board and said

014that the fact that you all voted to not hear any explosion cases from the school that it was hold you off topic. No, I'm talking I'm talking about due process. No, I'm not getting off topic because this is this is this is my hearing, right? This is about due process. Yeah, but it's about the library board. It has nothing to do with does due process has anything to do with this hearing. What is the written complaint? Give me the written complaint. Tell me why you remove me from why you having a hearing to remove me. You sent me the letter. You called me and then you told me when I sent you some limited discovery so I could prepare to defend myself. You said that was the wrong email. Well, that was the email that

015you notified me by. Then when I sent you that no when you sent me the other email I that email and that email Mr. B. I mean it's a package you all me you all can see yourself the email you sent it to was actually my work email. No and I replied back and asked you not to use that email. Right. You said send it to the other email. Exactly. And I sent it to that email and that email came back. Look, you had sent me multiple emails. No, look email. The email that you gave me to look on the second page and it says that error that couldn't be sent. Look at the second page. I'm asking the board to look at. That's why I gave you the package. But you you didn't give

016me one. So I don't Well, I'm trying to present my case, not your case. like it because you you have humiliated me called me out here on some kangaroo court accusing me of something and won't tell me what it is you accusing me of and to remove me. Look at the email you told me cuz I have your email attached. You didn't give me a copy. Well, you sent it to me. You should have a copy, but I would give you a copy. Well, and and and actually like that because she sent that. No problem. If you look on the second page and ladies and gentlemen, this is what I'm talking about. I sent the email. This is email telling you where to send it to. I sent it to that email exactly and this

017is what I got. [Music] You know the bad this country is we still have laws and I'm still a citizen and the constitution Mr. certain rights. Yes sir. Would you give me a five minute break if you'd like to take a moment? Yes sir. You know won't take away from my time. No sir. Okay. Thank you. I don't think he would let [Music] let you know that attorney Irving is on and so is Dr. Woods because the sound wasn't connected but as a matter of record they're on. Thank you. At this point, um, go through the agenda. I'm going to go through it and then I'll ask Mr. Johnson, our vice president, to take over. Uh one again board recommendation and comments 1.2 there will be a response and comments an opportunity for public input

018and comments and then we will close this hearing. So that's what we're going to do and we're going to be stick to that agenda at this point. Uh Vice President Johnson, will you make the board recommendation? What about Mr. What about me presenting my case? Because that opportunity will go just as as that when it says response and comments. I didn't put your name down, but that's you. No, I don't mean I don't mean comment. I'm supposed to provide witnesses. That's not how we're conducted. That's not we're how we're conducting today, sir. This is a hearing, right? This is the school board meeting. No, this is a hearing. This is a hearing. There's no need for comments because there's one time. If we want this meeting to be open, then we're going to follow it

019in order. No, this is a public hearing, sir. A public hearing. Okay. So, let's have that. Let's have that. Let's have the board speak. There's an agenda. Let's follow. So, at this time, the board recommendation is to remove Mr. bugs from the library board pursuant to [Music] pursuant to Indiana code 36-12-2- 20 section sections one and two that interferes with the proper discharge of members duties as a member of the board or that jeopardizes public confidence in the member Mr. Sir, respectfully, Mr. Johnson had a complaint from the library. Mr. Bugs, you're making an example right now. We're trying to conduct a meeting and you're over talking and not talking at the appropriate moment. This is the type of behavior that we're speaking of. Do I have to go back up there? When I when

020I give you the floor, sir. [Music] I'd like to open up the mic right now for any board members comments. So, M Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Uh, you know, just based on previous actions that Mr. Bugs has shown, uh, at previous library board meetings, uh, It was our decision to to replace Mr. BS. Thank you. Any other comments? Mr. Buffs, would you like to have a response or [Music] comments? [Music] Again, Mr. Chair, this is a hearing. Mr. Johnson told me that he had some complaints from library staff against me. That's why I'm here. I want to know what those complaints are because he specifically I asked him was it from a board member or library staff. He said library staff. I said who? He said several of them. So that's what he said. Now

021I want to see that written complaint because you can't call a hearing without having a written complaint. That's sir. Unfortunately unfortunately correct. Also, I do have somebody here just for the public to know from the library to speak that there was no complaints about me and that should she should be allowed because this is my witness. Are y'all not allowed me to have witnesses at my hearings? Please bring your witness up. You ready? You have you have the list. I gave you the list. I gave you the witness list. Did they sign in? Are they required to sign in my witnesses in a hearing? Yes, sir. Required if they want to speak for against me, but these are my witnesses. This is a part of my defense. So now you're telling me that you dictate

022how my witnesses are to be. It's a public hearing. It's not a court of law. You said it was a court of law. May I make a point of clarification, please? So a public hearing is not a trial. A public hearing is an a formal open meeting convened by a government agency or legislative body to allow the public to express their views, opinions, and concerns on a specific issue or proposed action. This is under the code. This is the definition of a public hearing. A public hearing is not a trial where you present witnesses. But the way that the agenda has been set up, you have an opportunity to respond. So if that is having other individuals come support your responses, that is fine, but it's not a trial where you're presenting witnesses and you're

023questioning anyone. So I just wanted to make that clear. Okay. Thank you. Attorney, could you tell me, Attorney, what is it that I'm supposed to have violated in this code that he's citing. Yeah, she never told me that I violated anything. What did I do? What did What did I violate? There's twoision. My position is not to tell you why the board makes its recommendations. What I will tell you is that what what has been read from the code appears to indicate that there has been some conduct on your behalf that does not comply with what you should be doing as an appointee. And so that language in the code that was read to you, the code language that the code Well, you want me to finish, Mr. Bugs? You want me to finish? Yeah.

024Okay. So, the code language that says that a board member, a library board member may be removed at any time by the appointing authority, the school board, after a public hearing, that's what we're in now, for any cause. And then it says number one that interferes with the proper discharge of the member's duties as a member of the board or that jeopardizes public confidence in the member member uh I'm sorry Vice President Johnson has indicated from what I've heard there has been some conduct on your behalf that does not comply with this statute. Now, what that is, I don't think that this has to be a hearing where there's a written complaint because this is not that type of hearing. It does not have to be anything in writing. It is this board's discretion under

025this code section to remove any appointee on the library board that they have appointed based on these provisions. I have. So, that's the most that I can tell you, Mr. But I have a right to know what those some conduct is. Wouldn't you say? Yeah, Mr. since you said what other conduct did I did and which one of these uh violations did I interfere with the public health? What I mean what what was that some the word was some conduct? What would you identify that conduct? Because you got me at a disadvantage. You're accusing me of something but you won't tell me what it is but you removing me and you not saying well you violating this code. Well, if you just say I violated that code, you have to have some evidence that I

026did in fact violate that code. Yep. M Mr. Bugs, you you've had conduct that's been unbecoming of them. Let us know. What is the conduct? I've been asking. I sent you four requests as well as being argumentative and just conduct that's not supportive or reflective of the Have you been at a library board meeting? I never seen one. So where where you getting this from? Yes, sir. You I mean let's be clear about it. You going to remove it from library on some conduct that you won't tell me what it is. Mr. This is a public hearing. Mr. Bugs, you asked the question. It was answered. It wasn't answered. It was It was answered. Now this is your opportunity. I conduct. What did I do? I thought I heard argumentative and overtalking. Those are two

027things that I've observed. Those are two behaviors that I observe in this divorce decision. You observe that when has the library board meeting or not? Because this is about this is about so-called prior conduct. Right. I'm going to give you one more time to continue your meeting and your opportunity to speak. But my witness is going to come up. Are you going to call gave me the lead? Did you have them sign in? You were asked to have them sign in. Did you have them sign in? Yeah, they sign in. [Music] You have any more comments that you would like to make because we'll give Yes. After my witnesses No, this is your time for comments. Well, I want my witnesses to speak first. They they will speak when you're done. Are you done? No,

028I'm not done. I'm going to say that this meeting is denying me my due process rights under the constitution. I've been accused of something that he won't tell me. This board won't tell me what it is I'm alleged to have done. They usually in a cold statute but they won't say what necessity I violate nor provided any proof or written proof or any kind of proof that I in fact did violate such a statute. The comment was made that you did some conduct in a library board [Music] meeting and I don't know what that conduct is because I never miss library board meeting and I never seen Mr. Johnson there. So if somebody complained about me as he said he did the library board staff that's what he told me that I had some complaints

029against me. So and I asked him what were the complaints? He said library board staff complained and that's why this meeting was held. He never mentioned until just now some conduct but that argumentative does not meet the standards of jeopardizing the public confidence or the other requirements on that statute. If it did then Mr. Johnson is supposed to prove it and give examples of why I vi where and why I violated it and when and the meeting that you all had too. You you can all act with a written complaint who complained against me. He said it was library staff. That's what I was told. No. So then by him telling me that I have a right to face the library staff to see what the allegations were and I'm being denied that. So, I'm

030being denied due process. Now, I sent an email to Dr. Stokes to see if she knew anything about this and she didn't reply and I sent one to Dr. Mloud uh since I couldn't get it to back Mrs. Nelson gave me the wrong email address and she didn't reply. Then I sent another email see if she got the first one still didn't reply. So, I come here and you ask me to make a comment. when you come to humiliate me and remove me from a library board without cause not you you have done sex conduct or you something that you did [Music] Mr. But I would just like to point out that nobody's denied you any constitutional right or due process because this is a public hearing as I've defined it for you. So this

031is not a setting where there's a denial of any type of constitutional right. So I have to correct you on that. Okay. And secondly, again as I've read earlier, the statute says for any cause. It does not require a written complaint. There's no requirement of that in here. So I just want to make sure that we are keeping on the record for the public knowledge what the statute says about removal of an appointee. Well, attorney, maybe he didn't tell you, but he told me that I had some complaints from library staff, and that may very well be, but what I'm saying is that the purpose of this public hearing as it has been defined and what the statute says about removal has been read by me and explained. So, I think that I really would

032like to make sure the record is clear that this is not anything regarding a violation of any constitutional rights to be heard. You have been put on the agenda as having response time, but this is not the type of hearing that you keep trying to describe it as, sir. What you have defined what a public hearing is. So I the only time I will interject anymore is if you are misstating the law. Well, the law says I have a right to face my accusers and according to Mr. Johnson, I have some accuser with the library staff. That's what he said, Mr. Buzz. So you keep trying to make this like this is a trial and it's not. It's not an accuser here. you are an appoint an appointee at the discretion of this board under

033this statute that has been cited. So I don't have a decision on that. I just interpret the code statutes and I'm trying to explain it for the public to understand and for you to understand so that you are not continuing to indicate that this is a jury trial or a courtroom trial or a hearing in that sort. So, I just want to make that clear because as you continue in your response time to say those things, it makes it confrontational and it makes it confusing for what this really is. Well, I thank you. I would think that a hearing is set aside to hear the facts of some allegations against somebody. If in fact Mr. Johnson is saying that I violated that code that statute then he to tell me which one or did I

034do violate both? The board is making a recommendation not Mr. Johnson is making this recommendation and again there aren't accusations for you personally. The board is making a recommendation to remove you as the library board appointee. Now, what you may or may not have been told, I don't know. But what I'm saying is that this is not a hearing for you being accused of anything or for you defending anything. A public hearing is for the public to express their comments, for them to have their say. As I I had the definition of and read it earlier, it is a formal open meeting convened by a government agency or legislative body to allow the public to express their views, opinions, and concerns on a specific issue or proposed action. This is a proposed action of the

035board as they're making a recommendation to be voted on in the regular meeting. It is not a trial. Mr. Johnson, thank you. Mr. Johnson, thank you. Mr. Johnson called me and said this is a notification that we're scheduling a hearing a hearing to remove you from the board. Uh and I asked about he said because I called you and asked you to check your email. That's that's what I asked. No, you did say I asked you who I said was check your email. I said library staff. You said library staff. That's what you said. I have no reason to lie on you. I've never Why would I call Why would I call the the director and ask her if she knows anything about this? Cuz she just called me off guard. You said and I

036said the director wouldn't know anything about this. No, but you said that you had complaints from her staff. And in that case, it's where we taking care of the library cuz they in a union, they have library board and a director. But Miss Books, you are the school district appointee. I know. Not the not the library's influence. I know that. But you accuse me of something, Mr. Johnson. I'm here to defend myself, but you won't tell me what you're accusing me of. That some some conduct should be identified. [Music] But anyway, uh, since I'm being denied due process, I want my witnesses to come up so they be on record. I will correct again that you have not been denied due process. You're misstating the law, Mr. Buddha. So, I just want to make that

037clear for the meeting and for the audience and the public to understand to make a response, which you have been doing. There's been no denial of due process. Respectfully, like you say, you don't know what he told me. He told me I was accused of something and and who lied. So that if I don't have a right to defend myself against some unknown allegation, then my due process rights are being denied. Call. Thank you, sir. I will call those folks who signed up for the public comments as directed. You may have your seat, sir. I see Mary. Scratch your name out. Dr. Spagenberg. [Music] You have three minutes. Good evening. Good evening. What people should be concerned about here is the denial of due process for everybody in this community. Um, due process is something

038that's not applicable only to criminal courts. And in fact, the statute that keeps being cited is part of that due process. a legal memo issued by the state of Indiana in 2018 on this very issue and the law has not changed since then just so we're clear states that yes you do have to show clause it is in that memo I don't know why anybody decided not to do that there's a reason that two things are listed there those are things that there has to be some cause you can't just do it because you don't like somebody you just you can't do it just because somebody's politically inconvenient or has taken positions that maybe somebody dislikes. Furthermore, you cannot do it simply to create a vacancy on a board at a convenient time. And I

039question one, was there ever a complaint? I don't know. If there was a complaint, was it substantiated? If it was substantiated, why is that why was that not presented here to the public in this hearing? Um because I will tell you right now, this is the first public hearing for removal of an official I've ever been to where no one will tell you why. And citing the behavior of an individual at that hearing, we can't use a time machine here, right? Like something has to actually happen. And I think that all the bakeries are about creating that confusion. Yeah, you had somebody up here who was confused about the law. That doesn't mean that his points were wrong. That means that he's confused. Who's responsible for creating or maintaining order here? It's not him. It's

040this board. And the board is helping to foster this confusion because the board is not engaging in this process as required by statute. If there has been a complaint, why are we now stepping away from the idea that there was a complaint? Why is a complaint, if it existed, now inconvenient for this order to acknowledge? When was the alleged complaint received? Why, if this was an issue, and I think that there's certain instances in the past that people will use to distract from what's really going on here, which is about creating that vacancy at this place in time, um, and filling that with certain types of people. Why if it had to do with issues in the distant past once you got on this board, once this board was created, why was if it has

041to do with things way way way back which were never substantiated as being the fault of any individual board member, but that's the implication. Why wasn't it addressed sooner? Because that's not the reason. Thank you. [Applause] [Music] Good afternoon superintendent to the board to the community and to all here and under the sound of my voice. We have a gentleman here who is articulate, intelligent. I get I've lost 50 seconds already. Oh my goodness. intelligent integrous prepared seriously competent educate education advocate. You brought a complaint to us all of a sudden and you haven't told us who, what, when, and where the basics that we're taught early on in school regarding any matter that we're addressing. you uh our board represents 58 years of com combined college education and yet in my opinion the way

042things are being handled here is a in a manner that is embarrassing inadequate and questionable as to the legality. No complaint named, no written complaint presented, no proof presented, no statement of this uh issue, unquestionable issue, no statement of misconduct, no statement of misconduct, and repeatedly you're saying we're hearing denial of due process. You're ruining a person's name. And if we are going to accuse someone of doing something, let's be exact about it. Let's not have wandering minds and wandering thoughts about a circumstance. Let's have facts and uh protect ourselves and our reputation, your reputation as a board. Um the process is questionable and I hope that this is not an example of uh how you're going to conduct matters in the future because there will be other issues of concern I'm sure and the

043way you're handling this is very very distasteful. I uh Mr. Mr. Uh, President, are we limited to comments about this issue only? Yes. Yes. Yeah. We can do better and we expect better from you and we don't appreciate I don't appreciate the way you're handling this situation. Thank you much. [Music] Good evening. I am Diana Marorrow and I am the director of the Gary Public Library. I've been the director for the past 13 years. I've been with the library for 37 years. Uh I'm not sure if what you all are saying or what Mr. Bug stated. I was asked to be here because I was told that there was some complaints from staff. What I can say if there was complaints from staff, it was not brought to me. And I think my staff knows

044that as the director, there's a chain of command and any complaints should have been brought to the director and then I would have brought them to the entire board of trustees on the library board. I'm not aware of anything like that. So I I don't know anything about that. What I can say is that I've worked with Mr. Bugs for many years on the library board. He's been an excellent board member. He's been dedicated. He's been faithful. He comes to all library meetings. Um, and so I want to speak on that end. I can't speak on anything else that's going on, but he's been very effective for the Gary Public Library, and I'd like to see him remain as a board member. [Applause] [Music] Bruce, I'm sorry. Um, [Music] good afternoon board. I initially signed

045up. I thought that this was going to be the record of the school board meeting. That's why I initially signed up and are going to have a chance to sign up for that public still right there. I just want to make sure that so I was going to say it's not there. But I was going I was going to share um this asking that new investigation right to speak. I wasn't going to say anything, but after listening to the first part of the hearing, I have to say something because if it's a hearing and it's public, I think the public like previous people said should know what we're dealing with and you know what they're talking about it and like what did he do? What what is it? So, I just think we should know

046what he's accused of. That's pretty much all I wanted to say. Bruce [Music] Curry. Um glad to be here board community and everyone. Um I came to the meeting for one thing today and it's about moving students forward. We got a discussion whole discussion been on brother bug in the library. My concern brother Bug's a fighter in the community eight years on the school board. He participates in the library like I heard from the director. But when I look at this issue, I've been listening. There's three things that I call you get rid of people. One is performance. One is a level one violation. Is he still from the school doing something like that? And the other one was pretty clear. It said any means a person can be removed from the board. Uh the

047board is not they're not comfortable with brother Bugs and Brother Bugs is not comfortable with them. If they had been in love, then they going to part ways. Brother Bugs is active all over our community. He does outstanding things. I want to create an atmosphere that I know Brother Bug Bugs cuz I deal with him a lot. He'll challenge everything. A lot of it I see is emotional intelligence. I mean, sometimes he goes that way. And I mean, I'm going from a personal friend of him and from just seeing, but he's a good man. But sometimes when you have change in organization, you're trying to go a positive direction, you make some tough decisions. You got to make the tough decision. And you don't need to take the whole community and disrespect the man to

048do it. Just pull him in and say, "Look, we don't want you on the board no period. Move on." And the Buzz going to do his thing. He's going to fight for other things we need in our community. But to take this time away from students is unacceptable right now. Did we have students increase their reading in Gary today? No. Did students increase their math grades by our board meeting? No. Did we build a new building at at the school? No. Uh, have we dealt with, you know, these kids, they did some great things. A tornado happened and these kids got moved over here. That was incredible. We saved lives. No kids got killed. Our security does their thing. There hadn't been mass shootings in the Gary school system. We got to get to the

049things of purpose. This kind of stuff should be done. the library director sit down with the board. I like him. I don't like him. Do you like him? It It's all about love when you working on boards and it's about relationships and if that sometimes you get divorces and you separate. Anybody know about that in life? You know, divorce, separation, kids get mad at you. You have to discipline. They don't want to come home. They go away. Sometime we have to move on. But what I don't want to do is affect what Buzz is doing for the community. He needs to continue stay engaged, but you just got to make the tough call. He's either in or he's out cuz you're the boy. That's all I Good evening board, Dr. Stokes, and everyone in attendance

050today. First of all, I'd like to say thank you for the opportunity affording me to speak, and it's indefinitely a tough decision. Uh, in all that I do, I pray and ask for guidance first and I speak and tell the truth in love. I'm going to follow my notes because I want to make sure I'm respectful of time. Initially, my plans were not to speak. I was going to sit and observe and listen because, as we all know, we learn a lot by listening. after seeing the agenda and it was posted about the hearing early on. In fact, I came yesterday thinking that it was uh on and it was today. For those that do not know, I am a member of the Pier Library board. After a short stint on the board, I was

051ready to resign primarily due to one particular person on that board. That member being Mr. Bugs. Please believe me when I say this is not personal. I've known Mr. Bugs for 20 plus years. Met him through my daughter at that time. She was an undergrad and he was her mentor and she has the highest level of respect for him and so do I even to this day. But there comes a time when a change need to happen. I've seen a different side of Mr. Bugs as many of you have in different capacities. Okay? I see a totally different side of him on that library board. as intelligent as he is, as professional, and all these good accolades that have been said about him, I respect and I can concur to a degree. But seeing him

052in action on that library board, at executive meetings, and in public sessions have been totally embarrassing to say the least. His actions have been unprofessional, very negative, as it was said earlier, argumentative, not conducive to an environment of professional folks trying to take care of business. With all due respect, there's valid reason or reasons for his removal on the board. And I say it without hesitation and as guidingly as I can. One uh quick example is we were embarrassed during a Zoom meeting and he embarrassed confidential information and I quit at that point. Thank you. Yes. My daughter tells me I don't need it. I walk away. Thank you. At this point we'll move on to item 1.4 four on the agenda and I will entertain a motion proposing. So move there a second been

053moved and properly seconded. All in favor say I. I. This meeting is adjourned. I'd like to let the audience know that we're going to take a fiveminut recess while we prepare for the schoolboard meeting. The signup sheet for the schoolboard meeting is available now on the table. Thank you.