January 7, 2026 MSD of Warren Township School Board Work Session

001I meet the 17th. So I wrote a little 17 or 21. I'm going to ask you about it. I'm pretty sure it's 21. Everything >> is good. >> December 17. >> Glad you >> what? went well. Well, >> we got some kids this week. We got weaping and you need to go to the >> I just took a shower. >> So, my hair's pulled back. >> Every kid that came in there, >> I better start moving faster. sending you two kids. They out of their mind. You need to send them home, you know, everything, you know, >> get back to that >> clean. >> That's why every time somebody call, grab my mask, say, "Well, I can't be too careful." As a matter of fact, >> not a surprise. You didn't have any masks in

002the car. Yeah. mask on the table when you first walk in. We get getting ready to say as we were leaving said you know there were masks at the table to do that so >> for those people right there >> look at me I didn't even bring mine in there in my car >> I don't need it >> I start I have to go myself Well, if I didn't say hello to everybody. Hello everyone. >> So, it was very interesting because national trends don't match Indiana trends. That's what I learned. I know. That's what I was thinking. >> That's what I learned. >> Also, you can imagine because all the emails from that group every single time. >> I'm coughing. I am not contagious. I was sick. >> I'm just I'm telling you. Do I

003have time to run? >> Ladies and gentlemen, it is 6 o'clock. If we can rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stands nationy andice for all. Okay. And with that, we're going to begin the work session. We are going to put a heads together and try to solve a problem. Dr. Hansen, go for it. >> Good evening, Dr. Burke. Dr. Burke. Yeah, Dr. Burke. President Burke. Good evening, Dr. Hansen. Members of the board, community members. Uh the purpose of tonight's meeting is really to digest and process what was shared on Monday. Um conversations that we've had since then. Um responding to some of the questions that the board had on Monday. Board, I'll share with you in front of you. Um you have the

004high ability numbers per elementary school. Um so there's a table there that Yes. So there's a table there that shows you the number of students from each of the um feeder systems. So at Brookview um Brookview is the host high ability site. They have 15 students in second grade from Brookview. They have 11 and third and eight and fourth and then from Pleasant Run for that second grade class at Brookview. One of them is from Pleasant Run. four are from um third grade and two are in fourth and then Sunny Heights. Um so that that's kind of how that that is broken down. We do accept, you know, if if an out of district student qualifies for high ability, they are um placed in in in high ability as well. Happy to answer any questions

005on that if if there are any. the second packet. You go ahead. >> I did. Dr. Henson, um for the schools like for Brook View, um are there any the remaining of the students come from their school? Correct. Um like you say, Pleasant Run for second grade has 11. I mean um one >> uh one from Pleasant Run, three from um Sunny Heights. So the remaining students are actually Brook View students that make up this 15. >> The 15 is the number that come from Brook. >> I thought the 15 was total. >> No, it's the number that comes from Brook. >> You can tell it's not total if you go down to LOL and fourth grade. There are four students who live with boundaries, nine that live within Hawthorne and 10 that live within

006Liberty Parks for a total of 23. >> So is 25 plus the two out of district. I was just adding them. >> So that's one class. >> Is this the total number of all um high ability students >> for second through fourth grade? Yes, >> second through fourth grade. So is um so presently they are being bus to certain schools in order to accommodate them. >> Yeah. So they're grouped in three c three kind of chunks. The top school is the high ability host school. So Brookview, Lakeside, and LOL. >> Pleasant Run and Sunny Heights kids are bust to Brookview. Eastridge and Grassy Creek are bust to Lakeside. And then Hawthorne and Liberty Park are bust to LOL. >> Okay. Now, uh when we were talking about redistricting, um we had discussed right >> maybe

007having a high ability class in each one of the elementary schools. Um why is that not an option now? >> Right. >> So high ability, we're not saying it's not an option, Miss Williams. High ability is typically 10 to 15% of your population. So when you look at what who qualifies for high ability, there are benchmarks and thresholds that are set for students who qualify and meet those benchmarks. For a for nine of our elementary schools to have all of them to have high ability, we would not have enough students to to create a full class at each elementary, which is why we bust them to host sites. Now is this based on um our present numbers or have how often do we test kids for the high ability >> annually? Just once a year.

008>> So once you qualify unless there was reasons that you know you would be removed from the program once you qualify you're kind of in in there. Um but so moveins um first graders going into second grade we we assess u we do review them annually because we are a transient district. So when we look at kids who are coming in we look at their data to make sure that if they qualify for high ability we offer we offer it to them >> and also Gloria teachers in non- high ability classes can recommend students >> as well as parents. Yeah, but I know especially at the beginning of the year that happens a lot where teachers have a student and then they'll recommend a change. >> So looking at these numbers, you're saying that we

009don't have very many high ability kids in Warren Township >> in in grades two through four. Th those are our numbers. >> Dr. Hansen. Um, so clarifying, um, when I was looking at the chart, I was a little confused. When you had the feeder school, um, Brook View, um, when it said total count, I was assuming that was the total number of students in that program, but in actuality, it's 15 at Brook View, one from Pleasant Run, and three from Sunny Heights, and one out of district, which will make a total of 20. Correct. just clarify. Thank you. >> Now I look at it differently like um second grade were you just looking at second grade because >> Oh okay. And then third grade that would comprise coming down to you. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

010Third grade would be 22. >> Okay. Now I'm >> and fourth grade would be 25 to Okay. That's what I needed. Thank you. I think one of the um things that I'll point out here, you notice Pleasant Run is low compared to the other two. We do have families who qual students who qualify for high ability, but they would prefer to stay in the DLI program. So, they they decline the high ability invitation. So, if I'm reading this right, we have nine high ability classrooms >> two through four >> and two through four. >> Correct. >> Do we have numbers of fifth grade high ability? >> Uh, not with me tonight, but we do have that. >> If I'm correct, and I might be wrong, but I think I'm correct. We have a high ability

011in each of the middle schools and then there is a secondary not quite high ability but not general ed class that falls under it. So in essence that's 3 plus three for five and 3 plus three for six. Um and then that continues like in seventh grade you have high ability what we'd consider gift you know however you want to call it. then there's another rank under that. Then there's general ed. Then there's the rank below that's not that they're below but that is getting remediation. And so that way we start building in in fifth grade we start building in um places to help children who don't necessarily completely identify as high ability but be able to ramp up. that and that's really helpful for those kids in particular to get ready to do AP

012and dual credit and all that fun stuff. So, >> and then um one more question. I know that in middle school, at least when my kids were there, um they might make um math high ability but not language arts, vice versa, or they might be both. Um is that the same with fifth and sixth grade was that way as well, but is that the same with fifth? >> No. >> Okay. when my kids were there it was but that's why I'm trying to clarify now >> and you know I was looking at have they ever combined second, third, fourth grade high ability like in each school. >> Can I take this one? >> Um if they combined the high ability second, third, and fourth in each school, that could be a probability because I'm looking

013at the numbers that would that would make up a classroom in each one of the schools, but it would have to be a combination of second, third, and fourth graders. >> So, Gloria, um two things. First of all, that's one of the um There we go. That's one of the options that Allison gave to us on Monday. And second of all, we have done that. So when I was in the high ability program, what we're going to call a long, long time ago, >> that's how it was. It was fourth through sixth grade, >> and then there was a switch to where we paired schools off. So we didn't have groups of three, but we had groups of two. And it was second and third and fourth and one, and fifth and sixth and the

014other. Um, there are pros and cons to that just like there's pros and cons to anything. But that was one of the options Allison gave us on Monday. I'm forgetting my um with the caveat that if we move fifth grade back, it would be three through five and not include second grade most likely because then it gets too large. >> Okay. Um, you know, I was just mentioning that because I know um we were talking about kids losing time transporting from one location to another and um then parents are saying that sometimes that can create a problem. So if we thought about that option then that would allow uh high ability in each school. We wouldn't have to worry about them losing class time. >> So that's true. There's another option that's a little simpler

015but than that we could also do what we used to do before. So we made that change when Lean Quayakowski was here. I can't tell the year. I just know that she and I had a lot of discussions about it. >> 16. >> Okay. 1516. So before then we just ran a bus. So they didn't there wasn't a feeder. So there wasn't any loss in time. So I live in Hawthorne. my kids would get on a bus outside of our house and be taken directly to LOL. And so that's a third option for that. So there's the hub and spoke where everyone's taken to their home school and then bust over. And then there was the option that we used to do which is there's a feeder bus that picks up everyone and just takes

016them directly to school. So there's no lost time. You're not leaving early. You're not arriving late. And then there's the third option which is combining classrooms within a school. >> Okay. >> I just wanted to be clear that there was another option on top of that that didn't cut out classroom time. >> Okay. Now that's great because we when we first started talking about redistricting we were saying that the present option of them go going to the school we were they were losing time. So at least these next two options either they stay at their home school, we go we combine the classes or like you said pick them up without them losing time and take them directly to their school. So we're down to those two options. >> So to those two options, but

017those are the three options. >> I mean at least those two options make more sense because that's the way we started off trying to make it better than what it is now. So the option that you like is the idea of having one building host all of our gifted and talented or high ability students like it was in the past. >> There's never been >> never been one building. >> No, not one building. Uh having high ability in each building >> and combine uh the grades. >> It's not enough. >> Yes, it is. as you look down, there might be a little bit more in in certain schools, but you know, that can fluctuate >> and things fluctuate with parents and like Tim brought up with Pleasant Run, although that choice would still exist. I

018mean, there there's a there there are some parents who really don't want their kids to change schools. I mean, there's there's a lot that goes into it. >> Um, so that's why the option of trying to have high ability in each school would be great. And the reason I say that is it seemed like it would work better. I remember when I was teaching, I taught high ability class and we combined uh fourth, fifth, and sixth because at that particular time we had sixth grade in the elementary school. So I taught fourth, fifth and sixth and it was awesome. Um I I really liked it. You know, the kids learn it. It was just challenging for them and the parents were happy with that. So you said that we've done it once before and you

019were a product of that. So >> yes, but to be fair, my understanding is it's been at least 30 years. >> Well, it's been that long since I've taught a high ability class, too. It's been at least 30 some years. But at that particular time, as I uh remember, it was a great uh thing, you know, teaching them and having to combine classes because it challenged the students and it kept them moving up, you know. uh they did very well on their testing and everything. So I you know we we're narrowed down to those two options. Originally we had talked about keep uh having high ability in every elementary school to make it convenient for parents and for students to remain at their school and each school would have high ability. As soon as they

020identify a high ability child, it would be right there. they could just put that child on into that classroom. Now, Rachel came up with the ideal of the bus dropping them off. That's a second option, but I personally I choose the first one, keeping them at their school. Now, I don't know how other people feel about the two options. I think the numbers like Pleasant Run just has one and if you have that >> but that's one in second grade. Remember we were saying combine second, third, and fourth. >> I wouldn't want to combine second, third, and fourth. They're socially so different levels. >> How is that? >> I teach fourth grade and in summer school I worked with second graders and their social emotional. I don't think they'd be able to actually with the

021fourth graders that teacher would have to scaffold three different things. She can't teach necessarily fourth grade material to second grade. What's going to happen with the other grades when she's working with a certain fourth grade? There's a second grader over here who's not at that level. She can't teach >> a whole content to the entire class. You're going to be surprised at what I tell you five years ago. Andre Carson's wife, she has a charter school. I taught there and I forgot about mentioning that when I talked about high ability class when I did fourth, fifth, and sixth, that's when I was a teacher in IPS. But I worked at the charter school five years ago. They put first, second, and third grade students in my class. I had 20some students and don't you know

022it was awesome. Those first grade students they were learning things that the second and third grade was learning. They were excelling. They were exceptional because they were high ability and they were able to catch on. They they were excited. I even have videos I could show you of them together. First, second, and third. I videoed them. And when you actually see them working together and the things that they were able to accomplish, you would be amazed. So don't ever say what cannot be done. It it takes um as a teacher, it took planning. It took uh making sure that I planned correctly and did my, you know, lessons so that each group would be able to advance. The teachers would test them like they normally would in their classroom after they left out of my

023class. They would stay in my class a half a day and then I send them back to their classes. And the teachers was just amazed at how well they performed. And I and I told I told the principal it was Miss Carson, Andre Carson's wife. I said that was such an awesome idea. So >> I'm just saying I've experienced it. >> Terry has a comment but um Dr. Hansen cuz I know um I want us to make sure that we are staying focused. So the purpose of tonight we're looking at high ability or let me back up. What is the purpose? >> Yeah, the purpose you you're helping drive the purpose tonight. So we're really here to digest what we heard on Monday. You asked uh Miss Triplet for some scenarios. So I have we've

024created some scenarios that I'd like to share with the board. >> Okay. and just responding to any questions you guys have. >> Right. So, um, do you want to go through each of these scenarios before we comment or are you going to do one scenario and then we talk about it? Tell me how you want to >> Yeah. My my preference would be to go through each scenario and discuss it and then go on to the next scenario and discuss it versus going through all of them. Does that make sense? So, let's go to scenario A and we'll have feedback >> and then we'll go on to scenario B. >> I prefer that method as well. Thank you. >> Sound good? >> Yes. >> I just had one question question and I think I got

025my answer looked at this but I got to ask this. I thought she had asked asked for three scenarios. Are you including the current boundaries as one of the scenarios? >> No. Why don't we come up with three? She just suggested. >> Yeah. So the >> he said they said they can give one or two. She said well I think we may have >> the scenarios that I'm going to share are fifth grade placement. >> Okay. Okay. >> Which is different than the boundary. >> Okay. >> Conversation. And it looks like uh Mr. Howard um Dr. Henson correct me if I'm wrong. We have six um scenarios. Did I >> six? >> I intentionally did not number them because there is no I didn't want to >> five. Okay. >> No, six. >> I say

026six. Okay. >> Okay. Let me ask just to say this yesterday. That is definition. >> And that's that's definition. Huh? >> Well, there's not a whole lot of people in here. I think they can all hear me. Oh, yeah. These people are there. Hi. Okay. Um, definitions was going to bring it up yesterday. Wrote it down and said we got to clear that some of these things and also some of these acronyms and abbreviations and all that. Everybody doesn't understand them. I don't understand them. I come from a world that's all we were taught like abbreviations and acronyms. Anyway, um when you say scenarios and you say options, that's that's two different things and they have a different definition. What are we talking about here? Scenarios or options? Because when I looked in here and

027I said just what I said, I saw here where you have current boundaries and you got options ones and option two. And I was looking for that third option and I just said, well, I assume that meant that there because she did express that and I was with her. I was going to say the same thing. Don't give me two, give me three, but don't give me 17. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> But three is fine. So if if you could just explain what a scenario is and then explain what an option is or are you using them interchangeably? >> Yeah, they they are the same thing. Options are the Walbert language. We designed the scenarios because they're very comprehensive. Um so there's a lot that goes into to each of one

028of those. They are the exact same thing. So, you said there were six. I didn't I didn't I didn't even get >> Mr. Dorsy. It's It's this one here. >> Okay. That one. Oh, >> as soon as I >> That one? >> Yep. That one right there. See? >> It's the slide deck that you have in front of you. >> Dr. Hansen, could you tell me how many fifth graders in total we have? >> Uh, 800. I would use 800 as our number right now. board. I know this slide sometimes gets not a lot of airtime. You know, we take for granted that we put this in front of you, our community, um, each meeting, each presentation. But I do want to spend a minute here because everything that we're trying to do in this

029process is trying to meet the needs of these five um investments or these goals that you set forth to me that we set forth to our um schools, staff and students. Academic excellence and student achievement is at the top for a reason. Um we are a school system. We educate kids. We want them to perform. We want them to excel. We want them to achieve. Our goal is to prepare them for the day after graduation so they go on and do great things in life and in their in their community. Invest in the Warren student journey and meeting the needs of the whole child. I think is really prevalent in this fifth grade conversation pertaining to the amount of conversation that we've had with the social emotional developmentally appropriate experiences um that we want for

030our fifth graders. Invest in our people. That's how we make the magic happen, right? It's our teachers. It's our it's all of our employees who are working for those top two things. invest in family and community engagement. We know when our kids leave us at elementary school. We have good systems in place and there's a bridge that we have to there's a gap there that we have to bridge between when they leave elementary when they go to intermediate middle school. Um we know that that communication changes. We know the family engagement um declines. We own that. Um there are things that we stopped doing and as a parent who's gone through that process, we recognize too that that schools stopped doing some of those things and we we want to make sure that we we

031fill that gap. Um in invest in safety and operational excellence and board, I've I've talked to many of you um since Monday. you know, I I did get honed in on the operational excellence piece and the efficiencies that we try to um follow and create because funding is hard. Um the legislators do not make it easy for us. Um but I I want to spend a little time just recognizing that everything we're doing, everything we're talking about are addressing these five priorities. So with that, we kind of did a SWAT um analysis for each scenario. Um some of this will be repetitive once we move forward. What I will share with you are two things. The six scenarios or options that we put in front of you are not exhaustive. I'm sure that there are

032more and we can have conversation tonight if we want to identify what that is. the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats that are listed are not exhaustive. And I welcome your feedback, your input this evening on identifying things that that are not on here. So, if you you know, hey, this is a strength that that is a part of that, um we want we want to make sure we we acknowledge that and document it um for each of those. So, the first one is um if we took all of our current fourth graders and we left them in fifth grade, because that's who we're talking about right now, right? We're talking about our current fourth graders. Strengths to that would be they would be in a developmentally appropriate environment that was designed for their age level.

033It would be six years in one school setting, K5. We know that there's a strong community at our elementary schools. We've talked about the access to recess academic structure. What we meant by that is there's a strong foundation of consistency across the models, right? We know from kindergarten, first grade is going to build on that. Each grade level builds on the grade level before. So, there's a consistency there. This would also allow us to to hone in on the 68 student that we could have a true middle school model for for them. As we discussed on Monday, space and capacity is a weakness to this model. Um we do believe that it would increase class sizes. um based on what we heard from Walpert, based on um potential projected enrollment increases, concerns that have come

034up and some of this has been taken from our um surveys, some of this was taken from our focus groups, some of this was taken from our staff. There is a concern about the counselor student ratio. Right now um our elementarymentaries are really outside that range already. So that would be something we would need to look at. Do we add another counselor to our elementary setting? Do we add a half counselor? That would need to be um talked about. Instructional supports, adding another 100 students per building would be more students to support. Um we talked about the pressures that it places on specialized programs. Um transportation challenges. Um elementary is already our largest tier. uh this would add approximately 800 to a,000 students to that tier. So we did not get to that detailed level

035of what that would require from transportation. Um in terms of do we have enough drivers? Do we have enough we have enough buses but do would we have enough drivers to staff that um not all of our drivers work all three tiers. Some of them only want to work you know the first one or the first two or the second one and the third one. So that would be a part of that. It would increase car rider traffic. Um I saw a statistic, this isn't Warren related, but they did the it's like 40% of families do not take advantage of public school transportation kind of statewide. Um they did in 1995 it was like 12%. So we're seeing that not just from our out of district kids but also from our in district kids parents

036taking kids to school teaching licensing um we would just need to make sure that we would have the appropriate lensure for elementary that is a specific license that you know it is a elementary license um this would move a lot of staff so that we would we would need to address that um it would leave us in a good way but is also a weakness um it would we would have a lot of underutilized space at the middle schools and um in my conversation with Karen this morning in board I'll be honest I forwarded you those maps at 3:30 or 34 as soon as I saw that I received them my I sent those to you I've not been able to analyze those yet but she said in that model more neighborhoods are split um

037moving fifth grade to different locations we'll take a look at that opportunities this is what we see is, hey, this this would be good for us to be able to do moving forward. We really could have an intentional focus on grade level band needs. And what I mean by that is what do our K5 kids need? What do our 68 kids need? And what do our 912 kids need? Um, so we can be very specific with that developmentally appropriate um approach, consistent K5 academic experience across the board. threats to this would be enrollment. Um, I put increasing in the parentheses because if our enrollment increased that would put pressures on our nine elementarymentaries. If we had shifts in enrollment, so if we have um housing development that takes place and we we start to see

038a shift there, this would give us less flexibility to respond to that. um a threat is then do we then start to see the decline take place from fifth to 6th. We knowing that that's a transition um period that is a common you know phenomenon that happens anytime you have that that wherever that transition falls there tends to be adjustments there. costs are a threat to this. Um, professional development, furniture, um, you know, over time we've replaced some of that. So, some of that would need be need to be replaced. What does that look like for transportation? Um, in terms of hiring more staff and then the involuntary transfer stipened, right now that's $250. So when we take a look at the number of staff that would need to be moved, it's not a lot

039of money, but it is some money. Open it up for conversation. >> I have a couple. First of all, professional development throughout the district. Every teacher gets that. So how is that more of a cost? >> We will want to make sure and again I'll go back to invest in academic excellence. We have great fifth grade teachers, but our outcomes aren't showing it. So, we're not doing something. So, we can't just take those fifth grade teachers in their current classroom and move them to a new school and expect automatically things are going to improve just because we change the placement of the kid and the teacher. So, we got to hone in on what what is what are we missing with that fifth grade student? Is it um a continuation of fourth grade? Are we

040not, you know, we know I learn standards require much more depth of thinking. So are we not getting to that depth that that they're being tested on. So Terry, you we are no matter what we do, no matter what option we do, we have to invest in professional development at this age level to improve our outcomes. >> Okay. You know, uh, that's really strange that you say that. And as I look around at other jobs in the business, we're no different in education. If I hire a mechanic, I expect for him to know how to fix my car. I shouldn't have to teach him how to fix my car. If he can't fix my car, then hey, maybe he need to go somewhere else and I need to get someone else. We're hiring professional teachers.

041They have gone to college. You shouldn't have to retrain them, okay? And invest all that money. not understand. You might give some refresher things, but you're making it seem like they're not capable of teaching our students. If they're not capable of teaching our students, why did we hire them? So, we hire people that are capable. They are supposed to be professional teachers and we expect for them to teach. So, I I don't go along with, oh, I have to hold their hand and give them professional development to show them what to do. Yeah, I might give you a little, you know, little help here and there, but I expect for you to do your job. And I think that we're not expecting no more or less than the business world. They don't they don't do

042that. They hire you to do a job, they expect for you to do it. >> Gloria, the only thing I would respond to that is um K6 lensure is elementary. >> I have that. So, you know, there there are folks who are really really good first grade teachers who are not really good fifth grade teachers. >> There are really good fifth grade teachers who are not good first grade teachers. >> You know what? That's good. That's there. Again, that's the same in any job. You know, you're as good as you try to be. You want your job, you're going to do your job. Okay. So, I was hired. I I got my license K through six. I'm supposed to be able to teach all those grade levels. It's no such thing as, oh, I can

043teach first grade, but I can't teach fifth because when I went to school, I was trained for all grade levels. So, when I was hired, I was expected to do my job. And at that time, we did our job because the expectations were high. I hired you to do the job. I expect for you to do the job. And we did it. So, if you're going to lower your expectations, yeah, I'll I'll act like I can't do it either. But if I hire you to do a job, I expect for you to do it. >> Yeah. >> So I don't go along with, oh, they can't teach fifth grade. Then maybe you're not a good teacher. You maybe you need to go into another area because you went into teaching and you were trained to

044teach students K through six. And that's I have high expectations. I don't lower them. >> Dr. Hansen. >> Yes. um for our professional development listed under a threat for those teachers whether um we keep the fifth graders wherever their location is we still need to provide that professional development. So I don't see that as a threat. Um, that should probably be like a strength or even another opportunity for us to enhance because we're going to occur that no matter what. >> Yeah. Kim, can can you keep notes for me? >> Yes. >> Sorry. Yeah. >> I was Let's move that. >> Yeah. So, I don't >> The cost The cost piece is really what I'm focused on there. >> Yeah. >> We're gonna have to invest that money across the board. >> Across the board,

045no matter what. And then um >> you've already covered that cuz from my understanding with licensing, you know, an elementary license. So when you said teacher teachers license is a weakness, um I don't necessarily agree that that should be a weakness because if they're teaching fifth grade, they're already licensed for what we need. >> There are departmentalized licenses as well. The lensure just over time has gotten >> complex. >> I understand >> HR is doing an audit right now of all that licensing. Um it's a potential weakness. We are going to run into a situation where we may not have somebody licensed. Technically, if you are licensed secondary math, you can teach fifth grade math >> because of the way we have it departmentalized right now. That teacher cannot teach fifth grade at a elementary

046self-contained classroom. >> So, >> I have a problem with the self-contained of the fifth graders. >> I feel like they should see multiple teachers due to the fact when they get to middle school, they're going to see seven different teachers. If they see two or three at fifth grade, that gives them exposure. If we have a problem with a teacher and a student just not connecting, they get a second teacher to >> and okay with >> you will not see that on any of these scenarios. That is a next level conversation and Tierney Dr. Anderson presented that on um Monday. You know, she had done some research with the self-contained piece that that will be an option that we put forth whether it be self-contained or you know if I could I would love the

047principal to be able to have some voice in that. Um, but that'll be a conversation that we will have when we bring the house final cons. >> I'm just thinking too that if you have a teacher who is great at teaching math >> and just is not that good in ELA. >> Yeah. >> I would want my kid to have the best of the best. So, I would like a highly effective ELA teacher and a highly effective math teacher. I don't want one teacher who's really great at math and breaks it down and shows everything, but there's a weakness in the ELA when we need both of those pieces to rise up and have higher achievement for our kids. So, that's why I'm all for >> um >> these scenarios will primarily focus on the

048placement, but we'll we'll have that. Can I say this that I mean that just sounds so ridiculous to me because I am a licensed K through six teacher. When I graduated from college, I was expected to be able to teach everything, reading, writing, arithmetic. Okay, that's what we did. Wait a minute. It wasn't no such thing as, oh, I'm better in math, so I No, we were expected. And when you go to college, you should be able to teach elementary students reading, writing, math. Don't tell me that you are a college grad. Just because you're you love to teach math, that does not mean you cannot teach reading and writing. So when we graduated from college, we were expected to be able to teach reading, writing, math, everything. I agree. And I understand that. I

049don't go along with that. being in the real world of teaching right now. There are some amazing >> No, she's a teacher with a Ksix license. >> Oh, I just stopped and just >> But I'm just saying that there are some teachers who are much much better >> is always been the case. >> Playing to their strengths. And if we can use teachers to their strength to teach our children, I'm all for it. You know, you may be against it, but >> the good news is we don't have to make that decision tonight. >> Tonight. Yes. >> Yes. One in the scenarios. Um Dr. Hansen, one thing that uh I'm looking for my notes with the models for um what Tyranny had provided us regarding um our surrounding districts and how their scores in each

050model look a lot different um from our um from our model. So I think that should be also um a strength of moving to these different models is what our academic success you know and what data shows. >> So again this is placement we will have other options for the board to consider when it comes to instructional models. This won't get into the instructional model tonight, >> right? But when we have um >> because you can do the instructional model at any of them like it doesn't matter where it is. We can >> I'll follow you. >> And um your model this model are you do you have another scenario because this is based on nine elementary schools. Do you have another scenario based on 10 elementary schools? Okay, good. Okay, great. Okay. >> And

051guys, we can go back and forth. So once you know once we move on we can we can go back and forth. Okay to move to the next one. >> Silence is agreement. >> Um this this option um is in response to the idea of adding on to our current elementary schools. So if we took our two our nine elementaryaries and we added four more classrooms to that building. strengths same as option A because we would have them in the in the elementary setting. We would have increased capacity and space. This would allow us for time to plan for the transition knowing and you'll see it as a weakness but knowing that we would not be able to implement this next school year. We would have additional time to plan for that. >> Why wouldn't

052you be able to initiate it? >> We wouldn't be able to build it four months. You would be able to Oh, this is building. >> Yeah, this would be adding on four classrooms to each building. >> Nine buildings. >> 36 classrooms. We would add on additional space. >> Oh, you're talking about actually constructing, correct? >> Oh, this is dealing with constructing. Oh, okay. So, >> this would be remodeling our current nine. So, we would still stay with nine. >> Oh, okay. >> Sorry. >> This would give us flexibility for increased uh enrollment. And then that 68 model still exists. Um, obviously there's going to be a cost associated with the construction. The time of the construction could be a weakness. The delayed implementation could be a weakness. I I spoke with a couple of you.

053We do have sister schools, if you will. So, Brookiew and Liberty Park are the same blueprint. Hawthorne and Pleasant Run are the same blueprint, but then you have LOL. LOL's by itself. Um, so the differentiated blueprints cause a challenge because we wouldn't be able to add them on at the same place at each one. So I imagine if we did Brookview and Liberty Park, the architect and the construction company's going to say we can do it at the same place. Um, we would need to make sure that the building footprint isn't landlocked. You know, we'd have to identify the appropriate place or the the best place to put the four additional classrooms. um you know some of the weaknesses would continue from the first one. We would still want to look at that uh ratio

054those supports um >> okay thank you >> I'm sorry Dr. for weaknesses. Um I see under um utilized middle school spaces kind of everywhere. If we are developing this is the route we go and we are um constructing a jog center, couldn't we reconfigurate that jog center in this underutilized space? >> We can. Yes. The jog centers right now are designed to replace the antiquated shop classes >> that exists. But yes, we could. >> And would that um provide more opportunity for funding? >> Um I mean the fund I don't know can you tell me more? So, we have specific allocations for our our jock center for a specific person. I know it's earmarked. Um, but if we don't have to do the full construction of I don't know if the jog center was getting

055built from the ground up or where it was fitting at in our IMS uh buildings, but if we don't have to do the full-blown construction, right, we already kind of have the bones and we're renovating that space rather constructing that space, then would there be opportunity to um ask for amendments, you know, to that funding to be allocated somewhere else. >> Yeah. The way the funding was calculated was renovation. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I think it would be a similar cost whether we're renovating classrooms or we're renovating those um industrial spaces. The industrial spaces actually serve us well because we're not going to the concrete wall is going to stay. >> Okay. Um, so we we can look into that to see if there would be a cost savings. Part of the Lily grant was

056a 20% match, which we were already going to use some of the construction funding to apply to that. >> Yes. >> Um, but there there could be potential savings there. >> This one has a different threat in terms of enrollment. This one could be if our enrollment declined. Um, that's not a bad thing. we would just have more flexibility in those buildings. Um, if we saw a shift uh again in the enrollment from fifth to six, same kind of cost there board. Just to give you some I I tried really hard to give you some reference points. In 2004, the district added four kindergarten classrooms to Grassy Creek, Hawthorne, LOL, and Pleasant Run. The price tag for that in 2004 was 7.65 million. I didn't do any calculations of what that costs today, but that

057just gives you an idea. So, if we did that math today, you know, we're probably looking at 18 million 16 to 18 million of costs. >> Dr. Hansen, is that 7.65 per school? >> Total. Okay. So, for all all four buildings. >> So, we'd have to add. >> So at least at least at least double a little bit more >> and then we would have to add one more school. >> What um for my board history buffs in 2004, I don't have my computer so I can't look it up. Um that renovation was done. Why? Because we needed >> We shifted to full day kindergarten. >> We shifted to full So we made a shift and we had to add on. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yes. >> So, >> okay, >> because back in the

058day we used to charge for full day Kay >> and half day was the only free option. >> Then this the legislation then funded full day Kay. So then we moved we moved completely away from half day kindergarten to full day kindergarten. Okay. All right, Miss Williams, this is your one. All right, the next option is taking a look at 10 a model that would have 10 elementary schools. I put Highlander Park on here as the example. Strengths would again be sim very similar to um the first two scenarios. it would give us another school on the north end of the district which is where the majority of our student population is. Um and so you you have the rest of the strengths similar weaknesses to the to the um scenario B um cost of

059construction time of construction um displacement of War and Line Academy and adult education. A lot of our staff watched Monday's um work session and so we got lots of questions on are we moving? What does this mean? Pump the brakes. It it is a concept that we're talking about. Um I'm confident if we went this direction, we would find locations for them. A strength is the underutilized space in our middle schools. Um I'm confident War online Academy could be housed in one of our middle schools. Adult Ed is different. We have an AM and a PM program. I don't I wouldn't advise us to put that in our middle school um setting. We we would need to find a location there. So whether that you know we housed them at the high school before I

060think we're utilizing that space differently now. So we would have to we would have to find that something for them. >> Uh house them in our um Renaissance school. >> I think Renaissance is an option. Um, there is availability if we, you know, there's classrooms at Morehead. What's interesting about adult ed, I think we could find a possibly a site off one of our campuses if we looked at one of our facilities in the community and we retrofitted that to, you know, I could I can imagine some job training, you know, access to that. I think we can get creative with finding them a location. >> It does disrupt our elementary middle school feeder. We we like groups of three. This would be group. This would be 10. >> So we would have to identify

061what that would look like if we split the school. If we redrrew boundaries to accommodate for a four feeder system into one middle school and then a threeer three-feeder into another middle school. So we would need to figure that that part out if we had 10 10 elementaryaries. Um opportunities are the same. This does allow us to get kids closer to an elementary school. >> You know, Heather Hills, Highlander Park is surrounded by neighborhood. So, we would have kids that would probably um we would go closer to their school. >> Enrollment threats similar um to the other ones board. I would just point out and again for point of reference, I provided the construction costs for our last five renovations. We all know LOL needed the most work um internally, externally, everywhere. So that that

062was a $23 million investment. Um and then you can see the other other ones there. Heather Hills needs a lot of love right now internally, externally. We have done some we have done some um renovations there for Warline Academy, but I think Julie you mentioned on Monday we would want to bring it to the same standard um that our other nine elementary schools have. So I did reach out to Powers and Suns to see if they could give us an estimate on it and we're trying to connect and see what that would be just ballpark figure. I'm looking at the square footage and what renovation is kind of this today on square footage >> for our utilization um at Highlander Park right now. What is our um capacity percentage cuz I didn't see that in

063Wilbur's um thing. What is our capacity percentage now with Warren online and our adult ed? I know those numbers have drastically changed with different legislation unfortunately. >> Can I can I think about that because we you know our kids do come in um we're online academy but many many days those classrooms are just the teacher and her equipment um working with them. I think when we look at what is the capacity as a future elementary school, that's what I need to go back and review. >> Yeah, because I was just thinking whatever their um if the school as you said for the middle schools, if he or um Highlander Park is been underutilized, how do we maximize what we have? >> Where did I say? No, I'm saying um you stated that um in your

064scenarios the middle schools will be if we took the fifth grade out, they will be underutilized. Well, I'm saying now we also need to look at Highlander Park and see is it being under utilized so we can maximize all of our spaces as we're brainstorming and thinking of different um options in securing our teachers. they are important. Um, but I would, if I had to pick a side, I would pick the side of the students because the adults should be more adaptable than our um, students. We want to make sure everybody is secure, but if you know, if I had to pick a side, that's what we're >> all on the same side. >> Okay. >> So, Heather Hills and Grassy Creek have the same blueprint. What I want to go back and review is

065um when we added on to Grassy Creek, what did did we not add on to Heather Hills? I I just need to go back and review the history of that renovation piece. >> And you know what I really like is uh what you said a positive is a lot of our students would be in that area of Hair of the Hills and so that's to the best interest of our students and our families. So that's a plus right there. And um also uh you know that would allow like you said our uh online could go into the middle school. >> I think we see a lot of positive things that can happen by adding that 10 elementary schools and uh as far as funding it seems like all of it's going to have to take

066some funding. But, um, you know, maybe in order to make it happen within the school year, some of our other projected things like we were talking about updating our our sports fields and things like that, maybe we can take that, go ahead and deal with our children getting settled and then we can do our sports fields and things like that. Uh, postpone that to a later time and that's how we can handle it financially. later. For the third time. >> What did you say? >> Not for a later time. For a third time. >> Oh, for the third time. Yes. But thank you so much, Kevin, for your patience, you know. So, he's very patient. He's excited about getting that sports thing together. And I'm excited with you. >> I am really excited with you.

067>> Excited about this. >> Okay. You're more excited. Okay. got to I'm letting everything get >> okay >> we we did not include it on this um because I think when we look at if we take fifth grade out they have a grade level administrator that potentially could become the principal of the school so we're not adding costs >> right >> the count so when we look at staff I again that's another analysis that we'll want to do is is there a the lights are already on so we're already paying utilities piece. >> Um, so some of those things may we it may not the staffing one is and I did put staff moving, but I would want to make sure that I'll provide if we go this as an option that I'll I'll make

068sure we have a staffing analysis there too. >> Okay, >> I think we'll be okay. >> Yeah, >> custodial lunch that that may be an additional cost, but >> Okay, so that's good. So it's not going to be as much Okay to move on. >> Anybody else? >> Um scenario D. Uh again, no order on this. This is um would remain the students would remain where they are. So our our fourth graders would go ahead and move on to their fifth grade um intermediate middle school. strengths to that is we would be able to maximize the space and capacity that we have right now both in elementary and middle. It does provide us some flexibility with um model changes, enrollment changes. We would be consistent. You know, consistency sometimes is an ally, sometimes it's not.

069But we would keep the main the keep the same feeder model. One of the goals that we tried to create for our families was three distinct experiences in Warren. So you have five years at your elementary K5 you or K4 you have four years at the middle level and then you have nine four years at the 912 level. Um recognizing that transitions are hard recognizing that transitions um happen there. So we see that as a strength. The the counselor student ratio right now is really really good. Um, we have loaded up some supports at the IMS building right now. Those would remain no matter what decisions made. Um, access to extracurricular activities and team sports, which we heard through our our feedback loops. Electives, not sure why experience is hanging out by itself there. Um,

070college and career experiences. Um, we do a great job of connecting fifth grade Biztown uh to the eighth grade job spark and um using Zello in between to really focus in on that college piece. Through the Lily grant, we're going to build more experiences for them. Our middle schools have done a nice job of creating a culminating field trip for them. If the fifth graders were to stay, we can still create a model that improves their experience and outcomes and focus in on the 68 to do the same. Weaknesses we heard loud and clear. The crossgrade level interaction from the bus to the school um you know is a concern for our stakeholders. I mentioned this earlier, the communication changes from elementary to the IMS. We know that the IMS's were not designed for 11

07110 and 11 year olds. So really trying to be very intentional with how to counter that. not a huge weakness, but we would need to um as a part of that, we would need to make sure that we were intentional with um creating opportunities for kids to have recess. Look, there's some opportunities here, too. Create intentional transition experiences. So, you know, if this is the one that we have to go with, being very intentional with guys, what we're doing right now isn't meeting the needs we want to have met and really digging in to to improve that. I'm excited. We're excited about the college and career experiences that we're going to create through the jog centers, through the things that we're already doing with with um junior achievement. You you've heard from Laura Buckright on

072on kind of some of the things we're doing. One of our focus at that level will be service learning. Um really trying to get our kids out in the community more outside themselves um to find out who they are, but also how can they be community contributors is one of our job skills. We talked on Monday about traditional grades and GPA. Uh we access to recess. Really, I I'll say um I'll use the term blow up. Let's blow up the current communication model and start over. I think one of the things our families value in elementary is that personal communication from the teacher, whether it be a newsletter, whether it be a parent square message. We we lose that. And I think um at the middle level and you know it's it's a product of

073the you know the large structure fifth grade communication and eighth grade communication are different. Right now we're planning for eighth grade transition night at the high school that doesn't necessarily pertain to fifth graders. So do we have a fifth grade only parent newsletter? Do we have a sixth grade only parent newsletter? I don't have the answers. What I'm saying there there are opportunities. Again, no matter where the fifth graders are, we need to hone in on closing that gap between those the transitions. Parent caregiver engagement is not what we want it to be. We see a decline there um during that transition. Um we we have to figure out a better way to to engage families on that. We have amazing outdoor campus space on all of our middle school campuses. And um I think

074this will give us an opportunity and again no matter if we if we take fifth grade out I I think we still need to look at that outdoor campus space and how do we better utilize that as a part of the middle school experience. A threat to this could be um again what we're experiencing now. We see a decline from fourth to fifth. So that can continue. Um not a lot of costs associated with this one. um to the points made earlier, you know, those would be costs no matter what the model would be. >> Speaking of communication, and I know that this is getting in the weeds on something we're not getting in the weeds on, we used to at the middle school, I think when we first transitioned the fifth grade in and

075perhaps before that, have that team leader email all parents every night. Now, mind you, a lot of it was about homework or things going on, but that used to be a thing that happened. Um, I have I never delete anything, so I have tons of them. >> Um, and that was throughout the middle school. That was fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth. Um, >> Kim, did you get that? >> Huh? >> I asked Kim if she captured that. Yeah. Thank you. >> In fact, it was when Kim was at the middle schools. >> We had >> Yeah, she remembers this. Um, and I don't know. I just I think you know, as we do need to think about how we're communicating with fifth grade parents. That's not what I'm saying, but I'm saying we could up

076our communication game at the middle school. Um, we are, you know, we have teachers tagged who are getting stipens for being team leaders, etc. Um, and I hate to increase work, but and sometimes it was there's no homework, but remember that next week on Tuesday we're having blah blah blah blah, whatever. But I just think it was a useful thing. some feedback we've heard um things that get repeated don't get repeated and things that don't need repeated get repeated. So, you know, all of our schools have a cadence of communication. I think our parents aren't finding value sometimes in what what is being communicated and what is that personal impact to them as a fifth grade parent, sixth grade parent, seventh grade parent, eighth grade parent. A lot of it's just very blanket. So, as

077long as we've been the 5'8 model and we've been through different styles, what have we learned? How can we correct those shortcomings that we've have? What is the plan? I think that will be the biggest factor in all this. The mistakes that were made, the shortcomings that we've now aware of, our parents brought them to us, they've been bringing them to us. What is the answer for those? How do we correct those things? >> I think that would be, >> Kevin, I think once we once we land on where fifth graders will sit, we will be developing that plan. We've gotten feedback on what's not working. We have feedback on what's working. We'll use that to to improve that whatever the feedback was based on. >> So I think I jumped back to a No,

078I'll stay with this scenario and then the previous slide. I just had another question with this idea of the fifth grade um stand at the IMS and I'm being a little more open tonight. Not saying you have not changed my mind. I'm definitely not there. But as we're exploring options, how do we still address the concerns that were there with the crossgrade level interaction? Is it also possible if they stayed there? Um, one of the scenarios would be in my mind like that interaction on the um, we can fix it on the bus, but we're still not fixing it on the bus stop. You know, we can add a monitor and fifth grade sit up front. I remember when I going to school way back then, they separated us um, according to our grade levels

079and couldn't wait till I could get to the back of the bus. But um that would be an option, but it still doesn't eliminate that. So when we're thinking of the scenario of keeping them there, I would also need some information on how do we fix the major concerns that we have and I just haven't seen that, you know, anywhere yet. Um when we were talking about adult ed and um from my remembrance they used to be at our Walker Career Center. >> Correct. >> So then that may be like is that utilized at nighttime where that night class could you know go there? I'm just still thinking of we have a space once you give us the capacity of how that is utilized to better um configurate where we can give these fifth graders

080um because my good friend Rachel I think we're still friends right >> oh we're okay just wanted to check um gave me the data that I I have in my computer But with you know our surrounding districts like Franklin is the K3 has the K3 model then fourth through six. Lawrence is um the kindergarteners by theirel and they have first through sixth grade. Perry kindergarteners are by theirel in first through fifth. Decater is K through six. Wayne is K through six. Pike is K5 and Washington is K5. I think it would also be good. I know you have a lot of superintendent meetings to kind of see how those models are best serving them besides just the test scores um so we can get a better understanding. And I know initially I asked you when

081um my little Carson was going into um first grade, kindergarten, switching from prek. It was a rough transition for her. She didn't understand. She told on the teachers for two weeks that they did not hold her hand and walk her to the car or come get her out the car. She did not understand that cuz from prek they came to the car the teachers the US IAS. So I always said like wow it would be great if maybe our kindergartens could be at our early childhood center and that would be their year to get out of you know um towards the end the handholding because that was rough for her. Um, so I'm imagine if it was rough for her, it is for other. So just exploring the different options of where we could uh

082age appropriately, developmentally appropriately, maybe re um shift our babies to other locations that would help us figure out what to do with the fifth graders. Rachel said, "I jumped to scenarios. scenario. We're not there. >> We're not there as scenario. He said we could jump around. >> Okay. >> I went ahead. I'll wait. I want I want to talk about scenario D. >> Uh keeping fifth graders in uh the middle schools. Um, that is definitely, you know, it's good that we can, it's okay to make a mistake, but then it's good for you to take a look at your mistake and correct it. I think that when we put the fifth graders in middle school, it was a mistake. Now, when we talked about redistricting, that was one of the top things that we talked

083about was getting those fifth graders back into the elementary schools. And that's part of the reason we voted to redistrict. It wasn't just because of trying to balance the enrollment. But it was among our top priority to get fifth graders back into the elementary school. Why? Because we realized we made a mistake. We even outlined why it was necessary to put them back emotionally, you know, socially, academically. We detailed and listed all of that for our community, for our parents. We told them, "Yes, we realize we made a mistake. We want to put the fifth graders back." So that is not only expected from our community and our parents, but it should be held our expectations, too, because our goal is what is in the best interest of the child. We already determined that it

084wasn't in the best interest of the child to keep them in the middle school. So that shouldn't even be an option. We don't even want to put our mistake as an option because we realized that it was a mistake that these children were being affected by being in an environment that they shouldn't be in. As an elementary teacher, I've taught in elementary school, middle school, and high. So, I know the difference between a fifth grader and then the transition to a middle school. I had middle school kids getting pregnant and having babies in sixth and seventh grade. We don't want fifth graders around that. You know, it was it would be devastating. So, I understand it's okay to make a mistake. You know, I really feel that we made a mistake in the past by

085putting them there, but we want to correct that mistake. So it's not a matter of is that should we keep them there? No, we if when you make realize you have a mistake, why you going to continue to keep making that same mistake? So, our goal here is to correct the mistake that we made by getting those fifth graders out of that middle school and placing them back where they belong in the elementary school so that they can be a well-rounded child emotionally, academic, and socially. >> So, that is definitely not an option. I don't want to waddle in the same mistake. M story, I would to be fair to our um predecessors. I truly believe they made the best choice with the information and what they needed at that time. So I wouldn't say

086it's a mistake but we have learned as time has evolved because 10 years from now someone could say the decision that we made is a mistake but we are trying to make the best choice at the best interest of our um our students just like we do with our children. We hindsight is 2020. So, um I know Principal Taylor made the statement when we were going to block scheduling and she some wanted it, they were cheering for it and some didn't. But she said um one thing she said, "You may not want it, but we have to do something." So, it this may not be the most coste effective and we want to be also be fiscally responsible. We're tasked with all of that. But we have to do something to touch those um you

087know areas. So >> okay with that let's go into uh E. This came up in a couple different conversations. This is a fifth grade center. So, this would be taking one of our IMS buildings, making it fifth grade only, and then moving the um sixth graders to the sixth, seventh, and eighth graders to the other two uh middle schools. It would give us an opportunity to hone in on the developmentally uh developmental needs of each student. Even though the IMS is not designed for fifth grade, having all fifth graders there, we can make some adjustments to making it work for them. Um academic structure there would be you know the focus for fifth grade only in the in the entire building um would be a fifth grade academic structure. Um the instructional model this this

088does come in there uh Terry where you know we can really hone in on what do we want that instructional model to look like just for fifth grade >> access to recess. Um they would have their own space gives us some flexibility. eliminates the crossgrade level contact true middle school model. >> Wouldn't that leave that building not at capacity as well? >> Yes. >> And it would put pressure on our on our other two buildings. It it would put them toward the top of their capacity. >> What are our current middle school uh numbers now? All three. What are they now? >> Uh enrollment now or capacity? >> Enrollment. Yeah. Um Kevin 1,00 1050 to 1100. >> Okay. >> And capacity >> 1350 to 1450. They're not all they're not all the same. >> In

089the scenario, can we because we have on here enrollment decline from fourth to fifth. Why don't we put fourth and fifth together >> threes? Will you capture that please? four fives, our middle school, and then our high school. That way, four or five is grouped together. Academically, K3 is focused on phonics and phonetics and this and that. Those buildings can really hone in. And >> so, Terry, I don't know if you're if you're suggesting a four or five building, we would be over capacity. >> Yeah. >> I would reverse that and say a five six building, uh, intermediate, and then a middle school. >> Yeah. So, >> and again that would be over and that's when I said >> 10 classrooms >> and it's not on here. >> It's not Kevin and I don't have

090a way of quantifying the 10 classroom piece right now. Um, right now we would trust you. I don't know where you got the 10 from >> the numbers. The numbers you gave me >> based on you just >> I just did did the math. The numbers you click gave me would be 10 classrooms short. Got it. >> And you can look at it now. You just said 1350 to 1450. Correct. >> Correct. >> And we're talking 1,600 students roughly. Correct. >> It'll be another 10 class. >> Current numbers. Yes. >> Another 10 classroom. >> And then I also said depend on how you would put those 10. If if we're going with the twostory model we have now, that's five classes per floor. And if you want to put in growth, you could increase that

091to eight classes per floor, which would be extra 16 classes. >> We can put it as an option. I'll need to quantify the cost to that. >> Right. And that's what we said. That was what I was saying. We have a construction budget now for the middle schools. What would another 10 classrooms to a middle school cost? Just, you know, again, the whole the concept of this was we need to explore all angles and all scenarios. So, and that was one we just put forward. And again, the four five is is a is a scenario, the five and the 56, but um now I don't have the teaching experience that Miss Gloria has by any stretch of imagination, but me work the work I have done with kids that 56 cohort is a very unique

092one. And that is when that I found kids develop a lot you I the kids that I've worked with in a five six area they are there's nothing that a high school student can do that those little they just do it on a smaller tal on on their scale but they will amaze you when you uh work with them and the things they can do because they once that that 56 group they transition from the mommy's baby these are little independent kids now, little miniature adults, and they're they're actually ready to go and they're and they're they haven't been corrupted. So, the the drawbacks because I work with seniors, too. The drawbacks of a senior isn't there yet. And they're just they're just bounds of energy and unlimited imagination and motivation, and they're ready to

093go. You can accomplish a lot with fifth and sixth graders. And that that's a popular model that you'll see across the state. >> And you know what, you're right, Kevin, because uh at that time it was K through six and the fifth and sixth grade were able to work together. As a matter of fact, they were able to help some of the lower grades and they were the role models in the school and they loved it. So fifth and six is a good option. >> Kevin, we'll we'll run whatever letter comes next, G. Um we'll we'll run that model through the same process. Um, I'm going to go back to when we switched over to what we have, well, not what we have currently. Um, we lost two elementary schools, so we had to figure

094out what we were doing with the kids. We initially were a middle school 78 and an intermediate academy 56. The intermediate academy was more like ran more like an elementary school if I'm remembering correctly. They had self-contained classrooms basically and um they were not treated like elementary kids but you know they were following that essence which is kind of what I think you're talking about only in a separate building. >> Yes. >> Um so we did have that. Um and then we went to the middle to the full middle school and intermediate middle. >> Tim, would that eliminate the teacher licensing if they were departmentalized in a 56 building? >> I'm going to refer to my HR team on that one, but I think there's probably more flexibility with that. >> So, >> because you're

095waiting for a minute to talk, please. >> Um, so I did some back of the envelope math. Um, that would put us at about 810. This is assuming all the grades are even. I know they're not, but we're going to pretend for now in one in 1208 and the other two, which I think is still in capacity. That's for the fifth grade center. I am going to counteract the fifth sixth grade thing with personal experience, which I understand isn't the same as D. But working with fifth through 9th graders, I I to me the break is between fifth and sixth. Like they are noticeably different students between fifth and sixth. At least within sciences, it's not there's not nearly as big of a break between six and seven as I see between five and six.

096Those fifth graders, God bless their little souls, their little gl gas molecules, and they're here and there and there and there and there and doing the thing. Whereas sixth graders, I can get to concentrate. I can teach high school level concepts to with enough time that that that's not a thing I can do with fifth graders really at all. Um and and and so just from the past whatever four, five, six, it's been longer than that, but we're going to pretend years of of dealing and working with fifth through 9th grade. I really do see that break being between five and six. They are different kids in fifth grade than they are in sixth grade when it comes to concentration and all that fun stuff. Well, that's why it's good to put them together because

097as you see, you want growth. So, if they're in fifth grade, then they're looking at the sixth graders and then eventually when they become a sixth grader, then they can say, "Oh, I'm going to act this way. I'm going to be a little bit more uh mature." So, you know, >> I worry it would go the other way that you would have sixth graders acting more immature, just personally. And again, it's at there's valid I'm sure there's valid points to either. My point was more the fifth grade academy we have the room theoretically to do though it's going to mess some stuff up. Like the numbers work without construction or at least they work better without construction >> which I think is a really important thing that we should contemplate. Um, for my history, um,

098correct me if I'm wrong, the fifth and sixth grade academy, were they stronger in that cohort or stronger in the K through five cohort? And with the model, I know they did better when the like the fifth grade had its own wing in admin. like it it was two um basically two it was in one building cuz they had their own fifth grade um administration principal their own fifth grade staff like isolated so I'm leaning to your experience that's not somewhere that I can find through the history what >> I don't I don't know about the test scores I'm not going to pretend to what I'm going to say is from a parent and a practicality experience. It was incredibly difficult because you've got to remember you have an entire administrative staff on a different

099floor of a building in all of the buildings, which means if I need to go talk to a fifth grade teacher, I have to go through two separate administrative staffs and I have to be escorted from the office where I enter with a by a person, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, go up the stairs to a different administrative office. one one administrative office ends up being a doorkeeper. Does that make sense to what I'm saying? And and then you get this idea that it's just really hard. I think a single grade academy is different. But those two greatmies within a two-grade academy, it's really hard to get parental input and parental buy. like it's it's hard to because I I it's there's a lot of confusion about who people should talk to. They're calling the

100wrong school a lot. I've called the and I don't mean like I mean because I did that and it's tough. It's tough to get volunteers to man events. It's tough to it. And again, I don't know the test score. I'm not going to pretend to. I know I could look it up and I will in here in a minute, but from a practical like everyday trying to live through it >> logistics the logistical part. So I that's why I wanted to know about the logistical part but from what I looked up like academically that kind of worked for the students. So, how do we take that model, not with the um I understand not having two administrators, but whatever model you were using then and reintegrate that back into wherever we put the fifth graders.

101>> And I agree with that. I think we have to look at where the strengths were, but but I I just want to make sure that we acknowledge the very real difficulties of having two schools in one building. Yeah, I understand that and I know you got rid of it for a reason. Um, but I was just saying the the model for our number one goal is to >> again I agree and I think we we need to look at what the strengths were at that time >> and figure out what changed >> whether purposefully or accidentally or because someone wasn't looking at the thing. Right? Things don't necessarily change because there's a reason to have them change. They change because I'll go with right when my kids started fifth grade. Ryan Russell's the principal

102here and Klein's the principal here. God knows that there are two men watching every detail that is going on around them. It is those two, right? Um sorry. Um a and all of a sudden if you have one person watching all the details, that detail that one of them knew was important, that Kumler knew was important when he left the building, now no one's watching it because not on purpose. You know what I mean? So yeah, figure out what those details were. Figure out how things change. I I think there's a lot to be said. Regardless of what we do, keep them there, move them, create their own account. Regardless of what we do, we need to figure out what the thing was that changed. >> What's the Yes, that's all I was saying. And

103I I'm not for the two admin because that means they're staying at the IMS building and it's not alleviating the other concerns, but I just wanted just some more clarity on was it more of the logistics cuz like from an academic standpoint, it looked solid. So, >> and I'm I'm going to say this. I'm I don't care which model we pick. I don't I mean I do I do I'm not saying that to be facitious. I don't care whatever model we pick what we do with those kids when we pick that pick that model and do that fifth grade experience is what's going to make or break any of these models. >> Absolutely. >> So that's what we really have to figure out. You know, we got to figure out the logistics of the buildings

104and and all this other stuff, but the real important thing is okay, how are we going to improve their fifth grade experience? And then when you do that, you know, if we put all this time and energy in doing a really good fifth grade experience, they're going to expect that in sixth grade, we're gonna have to do that in sixth grade and in every grade. So, we might as well start planning on having a grade one experience, grade two. And I'm not saying don't because I think that'd be a great thing to do, you know? But we need to we need to realize that it's not just the building they're in or or anything like that. It's what we do with the kids once they're in that particular building or that particular setting. We just

105need to really look at that, dig deep in that, not not only the instructional piece, but the parental piece and the the building a community piece. It it all it all matters. And and I I just think that's going to be whatever we choose, we've got to really look at that as well, >> right? I would echo that in whichever scenario we go with, we all have to make sure that scenario works. The success has to be there 100% whichever direction we go. And as far as the build the multiple building age group, whether it's a four, five building and a five building is obviously the easiest because it's the there's there's the numbers can work and there no construction involved. or the five or the 56 building or whichever one we go with. All

106those three scenarios are applausible. But again, just as Judy, whichever way we go, we have to make sure this is a successful program and we have to take all the feedback we've learned and utilize that and understand again we're this discussion is is is through the fifth grade element. So whichever that however we highlight that fifth grade experience, whichever building they are, we do have to pull that out and make sure that a it's a transitional thing. It prepares them for their next step or where they're going as in all with every group we deal with. So I can definitely agree with that one. >> You know, I just wanted to say this. Um Rachel said that she noticed a difference between the fifth and sixth. That's why I say the scenario of opening up

107another building and having an elementary school because the fifth graders, they still need what the elementary schools provide. And she said she even noticed a difference. So then the sixth grade are in with the uh middle school. Um you know, if you take and just have a fifth grade school, that's that's a scenario. However, you have to think about those kids being together K through four, then they have to leave fourth grade and go over to another building for fifth. But if they're in the elementary schools already, then those fourth graders going to automatically go to fifth grade. They're going to have a great um school year K through five before they go to middle school. So, I'm just >> But kids will get separated going >> Just wait for the next one, Miss Gloria.

108Kids will get separated going to middle school though >> with 10 buildings. >> They'll be ready by then. But I'm just saying you even notice the difference between fifth and sixth grade. So that's why I'm saying the scenario of keeping them together K through five would be better for them than >> I think this also helps but >> okay rather than to separate them after fourth grade, you know, and then fifth. So like he said, you know, us opening up that other building and making it an elementary. He even emphasized that the majority of our students live around that school area and they could be a feeder into that school and that would be a plus too for those families and those children and then those fifth graders can have an elementary experience before they

109move on to middle school. So >> I think if we if this stays on the table then it would behoove us to talk to It's on a piece of paper here. Who is it? Perry maybe because they do have those sixth grademies. It's not a fifth grade academy, but they have a single grade academy. And see, >> except for those are broken. They are in the same building and they're broken up. So, never mind. It's not the same. They don't have a >> Pike is Pike is really doing well with K through five. Those kids are excelling. And you know, when uh LSA was saying about the different schools that have, you know, the K through five, I I just really feel we're going to do what's in the best interest of our children. >>

110I bet you like the be next scenario and better. >> The what? >> I bet you like the next scenario better. Just like what you just said, the keep that in mind and look at the next scenario. >> Okay. Go for it. >> Okay. The last one we've prepared for tonight would be renovating Highlander Park to make it a kindergarten center. So, we would take our kindergarteners out of our current elementarymentaries, which would then make space for our fifth graders. Um, you see the space >> One through five. Yeah. >> Okay, that sounds good. >> So, we would have developmentally appropriate environments for both um fifth and kindergarten. consistent academic structure again because only one grade level would be in that building. Um all the other strengths that we've seen there um you know really

111to hone in on that kindergarten developmental time. Um weaknesses, it adds a transition to our structure. Um, transportation. We we would we've not explored what that would mean for transportation. If kindergarteners would need to run on their own route, if we could combine that with other routes, what that would look like. This is a teaching licensing piece. Um, there are lensures for kindergarten through 2 grade where they can only teach K2. Um, then there are there are K4, K6. Um, so a variety of that I think we would be fine there. We have those kindergarten teachers now. So they're they're licensed for that. But that would be a thing we would need to consider. This is similar to the other scenario where if we would to make this a 10th elementary, the the cost of

112the renovation would would be there delay of implementation um and kind of the other >> I have a question on that. >> Okay. On what >> the cost of the renovation. Okay. Now, a K through five school or a K through four, that's a lot of different grade levels, a lot of different things. There's science, there's math, there's music. Kindergarten, how much does a kindergarten kindergarten doesn't need that? Kindergarten doesn't need a a science lab or choir box or or uh a media center teaching you how to do podcasts and those kind not a kindergarten. So to com to say a kindergarten would be the same as a $23 million low development. I don't I don't see how those two could be. >> We will still need So a couple things. Heather Hills needs a

113lot of TLC. >> Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Let me finish now. Okay. Now, we currently have students there, correct? So, >> Not full-time, but their classrooms are there. >> But I'm still I'm still My point is the needs of a kindergarten class cannot compare to the needs of a fifth grade class. >> Yeah. So, that is an old elementary school, Kevin, where those kindergarten classrooms were design. So when you walk into that building, you'll know which ones were the kindergarten classrooms because things are small. The fifth grade classrooms probably first through fifth probably look more the same. We would want to design and and renovate that building to make it for five and six year olds. They're going to need they're going to need a music space. That that specials is not only important for

114their development, it's also how our teachers get their um guaranteed planning time. Um, >> so we would just have to explore that. That that's a new territory for us. Lawrence has a kindergarten center. I think Perry has a kindergarten center. So we would have some models that we could look at. >> The one thing that we would have to figure out and I think this is where the cost would increase. Sorry Lana. >> Okay. >> It's only designed for 650 700 kids. We would need to design it for a thousand. >> You saying we have we have >> we have a thousand kindergarters right now. Yeah, >> we have 900 kindergarters right now and based on the projections that we saw on Monday 22 there's a spike in birth rates so we will see that

115in 27 we would want to plan for a thousand uh kindergarteners >> we pretty much have four classrooms four kindergarten classrooms per school right now right >> what about our ECC building What about it >> for space for our um kindergarteners? >> Yes. So that that would be a decision that we would have to make because right now it's it's at capacity almost with preschool. But to add on to >> looking at the scenarios to add on to our ECC center because most of that is already that's already age appropriate >> um eye level all the bells and whistles versus renovating the whole Highlander Park cuz that would be a um that is going to be a heavy >> lift to um get that age appropriateness in there. >> Lawrence did it fairly recently though.

116Would it be possible to have a conver because they renovated an elementary school? >> Okay. >> To turn it into within the past five years I think or CO has completely messed my mind and I'm not sure before. >> Okay. But it might be if if you could try to get a friendly conversation to see how much they had to put into that. But, you know, just like u Mich said, if they were put in with the um preschool, you know, all of that stuff is already there and it might be um less co costly to, you know, put them there than to try to renovate somewhere else. >> They will not fit at ECC. >> Our capacity at ECC is Um, it was the old Brook View. Before Brookiew was Brook, so it was

117an old elementary school. I would want to review what that capacity is. My guess it's half somewhere in the 500s because they built Brook View to make it bigger. Um, there. So, I I wouldn't want to review that. So, you're saying that um costwise it would be uh less costly to go ahead and renovate Highland. Is that what you're saying? I think if we're looking at two buildings to renovate, we're my my guess is that doing one of them is whether it is the ECC or I think putting two together is going to magnify the cost to it. I mean, obviously there's more work, but even not completing Highlander Park >> or either I'm just uh thinking about uh the cost. We we've talked about opening up another elementary school, the cost of that, Heather

118Hill, and we talked about, you know, the preschool and we talked about Highlander. Between those three, which one would be uh less costly? >> There's two and I'm confusing you because Heather Hills and Hav Park. They're the same. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I'm >> That's okay. We confused. I I did that to you. >> So, which one would be less costly? >> Yeah. I think because EC is already ECC is already designed for age appropriateness. That one's probably going to be less costly. The question we have to answer is what do we do with the 400 almost 400 preschool students that we serve? Many of which 200ish of which we have a legal obligation to serve. >> Yeah. I'm talking about we're talking about expansion here, aren't we? >> We can't expand because then that

119school would hold 1400 kids. That's crazy. >> Yeah. I mean, maybe I was thinking converting some of the rooms. So, you wouldn't have to convert all the rooms at Heather Hills sort of, you know what I mean? So, we wouldn't have to add and say if we had four extra classrooms or five, whatever it was. If we don't have any, then that's what we have. But if we had extra classrooms, I was thinking throw some of the kindergarteners in there and have them split between the two buildings because >> which um ECC and um >> right because that way we wouldn't necessarily have renovation costs at ECC if we have spare rooms. It doesn't sound like we have as many spare rooms as I originally thought. But that we can't have 14. I mean that's

120that's a crazy matter. >> Children under the age of six in one building. >> No one. >> There has to be a law against that. No one wants that. >> It has to be. >> Um I think I mean you brought us scenarios um and that is what you know we asked for to be able to um look and make um some choices, difficult choices that we still have to make. But go ahead, Mr. House. >> It sounds like you're wrapping things up. >> Sound you got you got you got a wrapping it up tenor going on right now. So what you if let me throw something something out here real quick here and then you can continue if you don't mind. >> Okay. >> I wasn't wrapping up but go ahead. >> Well I

121I started to feel that way. Well, I better interject something real quick here so we don't lose track of some of the things that I want to talk about as it relates to uh this u redirect redistricting and all. Uh Tim, I just want to say it's it's great seeing you stand up there. It's great seeing you up there uh talking about and and and showing us uh some options, the options. >> I really appreciate that. >> Um there there's no question that we've got the best superintendent in in in the state. Um, I I I just wanted to say that um um we we've gone over a lot of stuff and I'm hearing us all saying pretty much the same thing and I think we already have a sort of a consensus on where

122we like to go and we want to go and we're giving you some guidance on on some things to do because you got a big plate here to to to eat from. Uh but if I could just go back and talk about a couple things. uh this fifth grade in the 10 elementary schools renovating Highland Park. My feelings is that it's a stretch challenge. It's a real stretch challenge. It's a big challenge and uh I think the biggest thing is going to be bringing all these teachers on into u what you call required standards. I think that's that's that's going to be a challenge for us. I think also that u the threats for all of these areas as as it relates to u enrollment decline. Hey, we're everybody's declining in the in the enrollments.

123I think that threat right there was the fill some space because it's the same thing through each one of the different uh uh scenarios. So, you know, we always are going to be fighting that situation where we're our enrollments is bad and we're trying to increase our enrollment. So, I wasn't really taken by that because it's it's covered in each one of the uh the different scenarios. Um the I I don't know what involuntary transfer stipens was. So, I was just going to pass by that. But maybe I better want to come back to it and somebody could tell me what that means. I need that definition done so I'm clear got a clarity on that one particular scenario. For any teacher that would be required to m to move from their current placement to

124a new placement, we provide them with a $250 stipen to help them with supplies, equipment, kind of as an acknowledgement that we're disrupting them. >> And that's why that's why Warren is such a great place. >> You're talking from one building to another building versus one classroom to another classroom in the same building. >> Correct. >> Yeah. That's why >> one building to another building. That's why that's why teachers and stuff from staff want to come here because we take care of our own and that's one way of doing that. Uh the uh scenario D uh in my mind no way. Uh we we can do without that. Uh transportation is a challenge threat across the board. Uh I remember talking with Lynn early earlier early stars start of this thing. what entered my mind

125about any of this red redistricting was the challenge the transportation challenge and I and that stuck out with me. Well, she was very her and and others were very um confident that we could meet that challenge. Uh we do it all the time all through the year. Transportation really comes through and they don't get as much credits as they really should. But, uh, we've got a major transportation process and the people that work in that area could probably go downtown and do some things with the busing and all that other good stuff because they got great talent over there. And we don't have a lot of issues unless somebody steals a battery or something from from the yard or or that little converter or something. Other than that, we don't hear much negative stock about

126our transportation process and it's great. Uh so anyway, that right there that that that that that that didn't that didn't that didn't fill me full of a lot of excitement. Um the uh the the the strengths in this particular one fifth is probably the same as high school. Uh no drop off. I mean it matches up well there there there's just nothing really significant to me in that. So I I mean it was great to have that in there as a strength, but the uh and and the SWAT analysis was was outstanding. That was a great way to get that to introduce that to us. That really that's a real simple way of showing people the good the pros and the cons of a of an of an analysis. Um, but I I show you

127that none of these opportunities that that uh are are are out I wrote this down here. None of these opportunities here for the JC center and the experience that our guys are going to get outweighs the uh the exposure that our fifth graders are have. correction. Our fourth our fifth graders our fifth graders are having to uh when associating those kids with older kids. Uh I think it was brought up pretty much last night and I I wanted I wanted to say something but we don't do that. You know, they let them go ahead and talk. But those ladies when they were talking about the the uh the uh uh influences that some of the older kids have on these younger kids, man, we got to have a separation there. It's got to be a

128separation. We can't have And I was here. I I was here when we when we moved from fourth of >> You were a part of that. >> Yeah. >> Blame him, Gloria. Blame him, Gloria. >> We We We were there. >> Now we're getting to something. Julie was too while we're throwing people under the bus. Just >> I kept I kept checking the shine on my shoes when that was talked about, you know. Man. Wow. But like she like said like said, >> you know, we were experimenting with something. We It worked. We I feel we were all confident about it. We voted to do it and then we moved on with it with some energy just like we're going to move on with some energy with whatever we come up with on the 21st.

129But the job center, uh, I'm not excited about that. I don't think there's a big fall off there. I don't think we're going to lose much by having not having the experience, the job center experiences. That's really kind of nice. That goes back to Akran. You know, teach your kids younger about some of these opportunities that they're going to see when they get into high school because you don't want to walk in high school not knowing what you want to do. You have a little taste of what it's like to do some of the things. Walk a career center and other things before you get there. And middle school, uh, you know, those kids get ignored quite a bit, but it's good to touch kids in elementary school just to introduce them to some of

130these things they're going to see. um a a scenario e a a a a a a stretch requirement a bold move uh very innovative and I think we need to take that in consideration too. We got to be making some bold moves. I'm a I'm I'm I'm a risk taker. I'm sorry I tell you guys that I want to go over the edge if I necessarily, but I think there's nothing wrong with being uh moving forward outside the box and giving yourself a stretch requirement and then going for it because too many too many there too many examples of doing that and being ultra successful. Now there are some pitfalls because if you fall you fall you fall hard. But the point is that sometimes you got to take a chance you got to take

131a risk and I think whatever we come up with is going to be that risk. But we don't know how it's going to run out. We haven't had and and maybe you can help me with this, but I didn't see a whole lot of responses. Community, help me out here. I won't I don't mean to embarrass anybody in the community, but the community did not give us a real resident uh no about the redistricting. I don't think we got a real big the the the forums. We went out there, we talked to the community, we got some real good responses. you had all your guys going in their their particular areas talking to getting getting feedback and all of it was pretty good. It was really nice nice feedback we got back from each one

132of your your your your cabinet members as they talked about how they worked um the the the the the scenario groups that they worked. Very good job. And uh so I don't think we got a a bunch of feedback that said we should not be moving forward. I think we're going to be moving forward. The five six or the four five um uh SWAT analysis that you did I I I I I I really I like that. I put a star by that and we'll see how we go. But, you know, that was pretty innovative. And I think you brought that up at one of your meetings with the superintendent and your team at for lunch or for breakfast. The first time that was introduced, I thought that was revolutionary to have to come outside

133the box and introduce that. So, I mean, everybody don't know that, but that that happened, but then I I know that that happened at your at your meeting, and I thought that was that was good that you were able to reach in there and get that. uh opportunities in the in here very strong scenario E opportunities very strong I like those um there's a lot of things we can do there >> and out of all the opportunities >> say again >> out of all those opportunities um I didn't see dollar amounts and associated with construction costs and >> doing with what we have and utilizing our buildings to the fullest >> yeah there's no No, there's no estimates on this one. >> Which one you looking at, Terry? >> She was saying um just about

134the um scenario E didn't involve construction. >> I skipped over on purpose, >> but being on renovation, >> but I think I know I know we're not voting on anything. >> Yeah. Oh, I thought you given it to me. >> Okay, >> Dr. Hansen the uh >> if I continue just >> she jumped in the middle and stepped on me and so I couldn't you know I got got misweight but anyway >> the uh um >> uh yeah I I um good old Kevin you you brought up money in construction. I had already circled it. I'm a little concerned about the dollar amount to do the kindergarten center and that sort of thing. Uh we need to look at that. Um I'd say go for it. You know, find the money somehow. Go, you know,

135rob a bank or do something. But uh no, just being facitious. Being facicious. >> Kim, don't write that down. >> But but I I think we normally we normally find a way and I think we will find a way. >> And so that's that's just just my two cents on where we're going. Um, pretty much I agree with a lot of the the conversation was really good. Um, and uh, that's that's all I have to say on it. I'm uh, I'm looking forward to uh, the 21st. >> I know we have a lot of information. I'm not sure if I'll be ready to make a vote on it on the 21st. >> We're not voting on the 21st yet. >> So, we got a lot of stuff to cover. I do think and I'll I'll

136let you finish, but I want to clarify what we can do on the 21st. >> Okay. So, um but as I was saying, thank you for preparing these. Um I'm always one I'm very sharp with my words, but I'm also very humbled to say, you know, for me, this is what I was looking for initially. You always ask for guidance and directions. I was like looking where's the cabinet? because I had questions. You know, I am a champion. You would lead all of the the presentations if it was up to me because that shows me you are taking ownership and leadership and the bucks stops there with you for your cabinet and then from you it stops with us. So, I appreciate you, you know, um Monday, you know, it was it was tough. It

137was hard conversation overall from community, from us, you know. um and from your ideas. So I respect that you are standing before us and alone. You you know didn't dial a friend or you know nobody's over there. You handled this and in this project to see it through the leadership you're taking today is the direction that I would like to see it go in because at the end of the day we have to own whatever decision we make. We have to stand solid on it. Um, Howard always uses this scenario. We are a team of eight. Um, before I came in here on Monday, I figured I thought I was on an island by myself. Like, am I the only one seeing this? But thank you for listening, taking the hard criticism, and taking it

138in con reconstruction and giving us what you got today. So, I just wanted to say thank you for that. Um, and I look forward to your leadership and you being the face of how we want to project and and move this forward. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> Thank Thank you for the feedback. We we we have a legacy. Whatever we decide will be our legacy. >> I have a question. >> So, look forward to it. >> Could we build do two scenarios? look at two opportunities like take A to put our fifth graders back immediately, but also take F and start working on our kindergarten center. Just a thought. >> Repeat that. I'm sorry. >> Um move our fifth graders back. My thought is to take A where we move our fifth graders back into

139the elementary schools next year with the constraint that we are also doing scenario F and starting to build our kindergarten centers. So in two years when those projected numbers go up, we're ready for that. >> I would >> Are you saying keeping them where they are? >> No. Is that what you're saying? >> No, Terry. But if you look at the maps we were given, I'm not And so throughout >> kindergarten, >> go ahead. I'm listening. >> One way or the other, we're going to have stressors on schools. We would probably need to have some sort of discussion about getting portables and the schools that we stresses on because if you look at the 26 27 numbers in all of the scenarios, you've got at least one school above capacity. >> In the first one,

140you've got three, >> right? I don't think the first one's real feasible because the first one was no redistricting at all. Um but just keep that as a thought like if we did that we're we're still going to have to do something immediately to relieve >> the pressures whether it's >> renting portables or something like and I get what you're saying. I'm not trying to >> Yeah. >> I'm just saying we would still have to have some sort of >> little something >> for that year. I remember um what was it? Kristen had four portables in their back lot for a couple years and I know that's not an ideal classroom and I know it's kind of back from it but I'm not saying I'm >> maybe we could maybe we could work on the

141fifth grade experience while they're at the IMS to work on what that's going to look like. And then if we >> can we we haven't even decided if we're doing a kindergarten academy. We we we've got to talk more. I I just >> But Mike, >> I know that our goal as it >> was to take our fifth grade out of that middle school. And so I just kind of want to keep with that goal. I don't want to push it any longer. I just feel like we have a lot of scenarios that we could pick from. >> But from what Walford gave us with the numbers that they had, it is feasible to move our fifth graders back now without being at capacity. >> The capacity >> depend on the class. >> It depends

142on the building. We have buildings that will be overassed. But this was also without >> research. I apologize. This So if you look at So the first page is without changing borders. So ignore that because we cannot put a school at 128%. So if you look at option one, these are numbers with fifth graders. And so if you look at the um 2026 2027 numbers, so that's the after the percentage bar, that's the next one. You'll see in option one, LOL gets thrown over capacity. And in option two, Brookview gets thrown over capacity. And so I'm not saying for every building. I'm saying for those individual buildings that get thrown over capacity, we would have to somehow alleviate the burden in those specific buildings. And and there are many ways we can do that. But

143but it looks like now mind you, this is only two of the four they gave us. >> It is. >> Um I don't know why we don't have the other two. Perhaps there was that. I don't know. But >> we'll we'll have two more on Friday. >> Okay. Okay. So, we'll have two more on Friday. But, yeah, >> I think I was just going off of I remember her saying that we could do it now, but it was the projection later that would throw us over. >> And if um so maybe I heard that wrong. >> You're correct. And then so I think what Terry was saying if and when we vote if we decided on the um >> the it was not model A model scenario let's use the right language scenario F with

144the kindergarten center we could do both and because the projection of capacity would be within two years and this should be done within those two years. I think that's what she was trying to provide clarity um >> on. >> Now I know one building would be at capacity. >> It would be >> better than having three buildings. >> I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying we would have to look into >> something. We would have and I've not seen the other two so I don't know. Maybe one of the other two magically fixes it but we would have >> You need to turn your mic on. >> Sorry. I do. Good job, Gloria. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. I I haven't seen the other two. I don't know what they are. And maybe

145in one of the other two that doesn't happen. I'm just saying we would have to remember that we would have to stop gap. And you're right. Stop gapping one building is better, >> right? Than than perhaps other things, but I'm just I I feel I just You know me, I'm a detail person. I'm sorry. You can't help it. That would be a detail we'd have to remember. That's all I'm saying. >> Yeah. Did I hear you guys saying portables? >> We can eat together. >> We would have to do something. >> We would have to. >> I when it comes to safety that that that puts a red flag up. >> I feel that portables is a safety issue. As a parent, I would not want my child in a portable. I don't think that

146would be safe. >> I agree with you. But I also know that there are creative spaces that can be made because there are two um gyms and there's an LGI room and there's some maybe somebody who can move out of a room and >> I don't think we have any elementaryaries with two gyms. >> No, I don't think we do. >> Well, they turn them into LG >> Dr. Hansen. Does this number also reflect the students that would be godfathered in? >> No. >> And I was going to mention that there are two levers we can pull. >> One is the out of district lever because we have right of placement based on that. So to provide relief, and I'm trying to look at it on my phone, to try to provide relief to the

147102% capacity, we could potentially assign those some students to another school that are out of district. >> This would not allow us flexibility with the grandfathering piece. I'm just making that, you know, a note of that because we we will be reaching, you know, the mid to high 90s on on some of them. >> And that's a really good point because especially for option two, that move from Sunny Heights to Brookville, from Brookview to Sunny Heights is at least short. If if I can add the 21st. So we we have a really unique opportunity that um we should be grateful for. In the December board meeting, we held the first preliminary determination hearing. We have the ability to modify that to address any conversations that we've had this evening or what direction we want to

148go to replace some of those projects with some of these projects. That's a unique opportunity and and we we have to make sure that um and we can we can review that. We definitely have the flexibility to change the language. So, if we want to change the scope and location from middle school athletics to kindergarten center, we we have the ability to do that. What I don't know and and would be challenging for maybe challenging is what is going to be that cost for the kindergarten center. Would we have the flexibility to vote with an unclear end in mind? So we expand the spoke scope to include both and then narrow it later. um from what conversations I've had with Barnes and Thornberg and um CFO is that we if we are um location or

149or f focus there has to be some focus there. So if it was elementary, then it provides some some flexibility. But if we say this is going to the high school and then we want to build a kindergarten center, that's out that's completely out of the scope, >> right? That's what I'm saying. No, I get that. What I'm saying is would we have the ability let's say let us pretend we're building a kindergarten center, right? Would we have the ability to when we're voting on scope, and I know it's a legal question that you may not have the answer to, so I'm spitballing. Would we have the ability to vote to say and then this money will either be used for middle school athletics or to build a kindergarten center pending a vote in February.

150>> Kim, will you capture that? Yeah. >> Yeah. I I know that's a we need to talk to Quacam Bush thing, but like because if we can do that, if we can increase our options >> and not have to make a decision ahead of time and then make a final decision in February. >> Yeah. or even, and I hate to say it, delay it by a month until so we know what we're voting. Do you see what I'm trying to say? >> Yes. >> I would like to keep our options open and not artificially close options in January when we will not be making a decision in January. >> Kim, one more if you could capture. Do we have to have the second preliminary determination in February? >> Could we have that in March? >>

151January and then in February. Okay. I know there's a minimum amount of time in between those two, but I don't know if that there's a maximum. >> We got to deal with we got to deal with break. >> I say these days, we can't break the law. And I would ask um just out of full transparency if Kevin if you could sit on with the CFO or whatever and give us I trust your lens on like the priorities like this is definitely needs to be addressed right now or this could wait later. I would want to have the full picture. >> You trust Kevin? I do I do I don't trust too many people but I think I think I can trust him >> to get that um for us and then that will give

152us a full >> you know why I'm saying scope to be able to look at while you're working on getting us some probably preliminary numbers on what these >> the two things let me make sure I'm clear on my direction the two things that I'm looking at are kindergarten center and Classrooms to a middle school. >> What? >> Either classrooms >> to the elementary >> elementary >> classrooms to the elementary school. >> So the four additional classrooms to the elementary >> or kindergarten center. >> Is that was that not right? >> I thought Kevin was pushing >> to all nine elementary. >> Right. Technically >> what about what about the 10th elementary school? Walbert technically Walbert said it was only um she told me out of our nine schools only two would be at capacity.

153Now unless that changed I specifically asked her that. So if we did move them um we would be looking at only having to renovate um two of the schools. I think that it's the two schools that have a smaller capacity is what is referring to. >> So, >> and that would also but I thought Kevin and I don't want to speak for Kevin, but I I'm going to come to his defense and see then if he corrects me. I thought Kevin I may feel very strongly about a fifth grade academy, not a fifth sixth grade academy. My understanding is Kevin feels very strongly about a fifth sixth academy which would then also include looking for numbers for that because we don't need to look for numbers for a fifth grade academy. >> So I All

154right. So I think we had a lot of different thing. You're at a fifth and six. Kim help us decipher this. You're at a fifth and six um academy isolated. Someone else said about a fifth. >> She's at a four or five. >> I was g just getting ready to interject. He said fifth or six or four or five >> or four or five. He could go either way, but his preference was fifth to six just with his experience with the group that you work with. you want said four or five. Um, and then we have the idea of a >> kindergarten. So, I'm talking because we technically cannot vote on that. So, I'm just giving you the scenarios. >> I don't want anymore. So, >> we're not voting. So, that's why we're giving you

155the scenarios to give back to us to vote on. So there was the a solid consensus maybe for fifth grade kindergarten center fourth through fifth grade in fifth through sixth grade. >> Was the the building uh another elementary school out of the picture? I mean we were he was saying that most of those kids are going to be in that area you guys. It's going to be >> and I thought we had a um of them >> and then so renovating Highlander Park. >> Yeah. So, >> right >> my marching orders are to explore the cost associated with them because >> Yes. >> Right. >> We need whether we call it a 10th elementary or a kindergarten center. I think we're going to be in the same ballpark. >> Yes. >> Right. So, we still

156have to renovate. So, yes. And then that will give us um directions. Don't know how soon you can get that for our board meeting next week. >> If it's feasible, >> two weeks. Two weeks. >> Two weeks. In two weeks, >> we can come up with the um this we can um amend our bond language if necessary. And Kevin's assignment is going to give us >> a priority list of what we need to do to make sure that our athletic um department is marketable >> and kind of coming up to some of the standards that our surrounding district has. Is that correct? >> Okay. >> I don't want to see pickle ball >> me together. We can't vote on it though. >> All right. Well, here's my question. >> Can we Can we put pickle

157ball to rest? We're not doing pickle ball. We're not >> Thank you. >> There no construction. >> I'll never live that one down. It's going to take a while. So, in the meantime, would it be feasible or smart to move our fifth graders back at the beginning of next year, give support to Burkeview while we do our construction on our four, five or five, six academy and let's not lose hope of having a kindergarten center >> or a fifth grade academy. >> Um, >> or a fifth grade academy. >> Fifth, >> fourth academy. some something isolated between those two grades. And I think >> but in the meantime, I'm just saying move them sooner than later. Move them by next year >> while we do that construction and get ready and create that experience that

158we truly want to give our kids. >> Yes. And so I think the direction overall um Dr. Henson um I think except Julie, you don't want to speak for everybody else. Um I think we've said because Julie's like we g leave them there. But um overall I think our consensus is we want to know how to get the fifth graders out of the middle school. >> Yeah. >> Without voting on that just the consensus what we originally asked for. We would like that to see that direction momentum press forward on the best way to be able to do that. >> Clear on that. I I I I do want to put my my two cents out there. >> We need to avoid redistricting multiple times in few years. And >> if we move fifth grade

159back and then we open up a fifth grade center, fourth or fifth grade or fifth or sixth, we will be redistricting again in two years. >> So that's why it's not that's why they >> because we will be pulling from all over the district to that location. My my advice to us is that we >> either delay redistricting and do it one all together or we >> Yeah, >> I like that. >> I mean, Avon's redistricted three times in three years. It's a bad plan. >> I like the idea of redistricting once we decide with what we're going to um build. But I also like the idea of let's not only location because the location is not, but how do we bring that experience and that academic excellence? That's what I want to say. I

160I I don't I don't necessarily want you to get the impression that I want to keep the middle school to five, six, seven, eight like it is. >> I want to make sure we have an experience wherever those kids go because if we move them back to elementary and we don't have the experience, I just think it's I >> it's worthless. >> I I think it's important. >> Yes. And when we get to ideas of experience, when it gets to experiences that we'd like to provide, I have a couple of ideas, but I know that's not what this meeting is about today. >> Um, Tim, I would like to hear from you from each one of those scenarios. >> Um, >> which do you feel because I hear you saying I know when we talked

161about fourth and fifth, you said, "Oh, that's going to take us over fifth, sixth." You know what? we've thrown this out from your expertise in in working. Can you tell us which one of those scenarios that you feel would be a little bit more feasible at this time? >> I will give you my SWAT analysis. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> There honestly there are pros and cons to each one and >> but just pick between. I don't get excited about having 1500 adolescent kids in any building just because of the I I want to make sure we can provide personalization in and making sure that that size doesn't become a barrier. I think there are ways we can do it. I I envision a fifth grade floor, a sixth grade floor, a fourth grade

162floor, a fifth grade floor. We could work with that. I'm also interested in flexibility in the future. Yes, we want to take care of the kids that are in front of us. But again, this is a legacy that we're going to create for generations. Um that just as we were impacted by decisions of our predecessors, this will impact the future. So, however we can provide the most flexibility going forward um is one answer. I'm not going to give you a scenario, Miss Gloria. >> The second piece is what can we offer that makes us stand out? you know, the things that we're talking about in the athletic space are things that are going to attract and keep our kids and keep them engaged in our community. So, how can we create something that's going to

163do the same thing for academics to do the same thing for the the classroom experience? >> I know that's not an answer, but those are the things that I want in that answer. >> I heard you saying fourth, fifth. You you just said that fourth fifth >> or 56. Yeah, >> I taught in a 56. I loved it. >> Okay. >> We had the same experiences and activities for seventh and eighth >> sports teams, band, choir. It was a mini version of a junior high. We can do a lot with that. >> That is a special group. To Kevin's testimony on that, >> yeah, >> that is a special group. >> It's six. >> I was just gonna say sixth grade is when um they start getting musical instruments and things like that. Fourth and

164fifth don't have that. They just go to regular music class. >> So >> that's not true now. >> Oh, sorry. Not what our current model, but I mean where I teach, that's the model that's used. Our fourth and fifth graders don't have those. They have choir and things like that, but they don't get musical instruments, orchestra, any of that until sixth grade. for our staff um if they are moving back. I know I've, you know, just asking elementary teachers just, you know, kind of um admin out of our district and, you know, I've spoken to at least one in the district, the support to come along with the students. Um, and ensuring that because now we're talking about the teachers, but that administrator is going to be taking on another grade. ensuring that they have

165the supports to center around, you know, those um students. And I think one thing that I mentioned on Monday is is it more coste effective to develop and make us stand out with our op um our exceptional learners. something um developmentally appropriate for our exceptional learners that are in those schools because per Walbert if we moved them back that we would be taking space away from them. So, I think that's something to explore as well because it seemed like we've made it happen, but just targeting their needs in a building, I think would also be worth um >> Can you can you provide an example? For example, if we have um if we're at law and law has um 20 um of our exceptional learners there, there is not a techn technically a specific space

166designed for their needs. we have um made it work, but being getting Allison's expertise with what all equipment and things we may need at that school specifically area for when they are um of course we want to integrate them with our student population as much as possible, but then when they have to be pulled out to get the additional, you know, um care or um to meet their needs, it is a specific space designed for them to be able to do that. >> Got it. >> So, are you going back to the scenario of every elementary school having a um high ability class? So, there therefore >> when I looked at those numbers, >> wait, let me help you. It's two different things. So, our office of exceptional learners is for our um scholars that

167may have a special needs, but instead of calling it special needs, there are exceptional learners. So, when I say exceptional learners, I'm not speaking on like the high ability students. I'm talking about are students that may need some additional developmental needs, speech needs, um may need some more cognitive um needs, >> social skills, um that will give them um that they may need additional support construction wise in their settings. >> So, I understand that we already have that in place. I know that when we went around and did our visitation of the buildings, that was one of the classes that we saw and they demonstrated how they were working with those students. So, >> you saw them in a traditional classroom. >> Yes. >> We do have some, but I'm saying in each per our

168study that we've had from Walbert, some of our extra classrooms, and I don't have my computer, so I'm not looking. Um, Dr. Hson, you have to help me on this. Some of our classroom spaces that we have in our elementary schools are currently being utilized um for our tier three are our intervention, our exceptional learners. Am I correct on that? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, that's what I'm saying. They're currently utilizing classrooms that were designed for traditional ele elementary size. That's what I'm saying. Not that we don't have special um classrooms that are tailored towards them, but as Allison said, our scholars are exceptional learners and their resource teacher are utilizing some of the spaces in our elementary classes. So instead of just building on four classrooms, I was saying we could be unique in

169just developing a special wing, you know, for them, those students as well because the general ed classroom is already there. That's what I was >> or that could be a multi-purpose space. >> It wouldn't necessarily be fulltime, >> you know, but we would We have to be careful though that we don't just have a separate wing for them because it's sort of stereotypes. >> That's not what I said, Miss Gloria. I said when they have to be pulled out cuz regardless our students that have to be pushed in and pulled out, we take them and put them in those areas. They are integrated in our general population. That is law. We got to make sure that they have that exposure when it's their time to be to get their um >> speech or sensory break.

170Good. Thank you for that. Then we have a specific area to go to. It doesn't have to just be for um exceptional learners. As Kevin said, some of our students may need that have ED may just need somewhere that they can go release in a in an area to be. So it could be a multi-purpose um >> space because we have tier 2, tier three interventions. We have interventionists already at our um schools that are using classrooms that could be utilized um for our fifth graders is what I'm saying. So no, we definitely would never just isolate them to say, "Oh, you're just in this work." But we will have a space like at ECC. I know they have a little um hallway that is just a full sensory hallway. I've taken Carson down that

171when she needed to, you know, get regulated and she already knew what to go to and it it it reset her just by walking down that hallway. So I'm just saying in general maybe if we create versus just creating gened classrooms we could probably create that experience to be more holistic um with um competitive with Lawrence some of their schools have one I work in the school you know so that's what I'm seeing >> I'm still I'm still trying to find but when we went to visit the uh schools Rachel you can help We were very impressed with the classrooms where they were helping uh our students. So it was so it's important to remember that we have nine elementary schools and each elementary school houses slightly different programs. So we don't have every single

172type of exceptional learner program at every single school when it comes to the elementarymentaries. Um and so and I I think that's part of what Lean is talking to. I don't want to speak for you is that in some buildings we have excellent spaces and maybe in others we have good spaces as opposed to excellent like I I I think it's important to remember that you know and I think on the Walpert chart there's some breakdowns on it but I don't have mine either. Um where you know in this building we have this type of space in this building we have this type of classroom it etc. We don't have first we don't have the students. Oh, thank you so much Terry. Look at Terry saving my butt. >> Um, if you look at the

173capacity like there's FA versus live skills versus IMHP. Um, and then that's not even accounting for resource rooms or sensory things like not I guess there is one school that has all the programs but not every program is necessarily in every school because we don't have enough students to support that, right? We we don't want to have a life skills classroom in every school and have a student in it, right? So we we we grouped so that they're appropriately and so I think you know we have some really excellent um classrooms across and I think it's just making sure that all of all of those classrooms are appropriately excellent is more and I think just from a footprint thing if we've got teachers so if we have a resource teacher that's pulling say um social

174story I'll speak to the thing I know right pulling kids for social stories and And so pulling kids on the autism spectrum, you know, you may be pulling 10 kids. That's probably we're pulling those to a classroom that can probably be pulled to a smaller square, not a closet and not a conference room, but there's probably you need twothirds the room or something. And so we can probably optimize what we're building space-wise if we do something like that where we still have resource rooms for those teachers to pull groups to because we have to have that sort of space. But instead of it having it be I'm completely making up numbers. This is important. 100 square feet. It only needs to be 80 or something along those lines. Does that make sense? Because that optimizes

175the money that we're spending towards building new classrooms. We we really like to make your life complex. >> I was just gonna say I'm gonna go back and watch this a couple times. >> I know. >> Kim's like, I don't even know when I'm keeping notes on it. >> But Miss Gloria, you know how as I know you like to refer as your in your teaching time when you did push in and pull out and they pull the students out. That's what I'm talking about. Just creating a space that they can be pulled out into. Yes. just another pull out space >> like the pods. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And I think there's a lot of win-win there because again it's not going to be the size of a normal classroom and we can have

176smaller square footage which is admittedly cheaper but make it more appropriate for the use. Like it's not that we're sherking our responsibility or building something that's less than. It just happens to be smaller but better used. >> Yes. >> Okay. First of all, I want to thank everyone. I think this has been really, really productive. Julie's got a mic on, so I'll be quiet. >> Yeah. Um, I think we need to get together again on on this. I don't I I really do. I think we just need to get together to then talk again. We've gotten all this information. He's going to be giving us more information. I think once we get all this information, we just need to have round table in here because it's got to be broadcast, but we need to sit

177around a table and talk >> because that's when we do our best work. When we sit and talk and hear each other and listen to each other and >> that's what makes us an exemplary board. >> That's right. That's right. That and filling out the application every year. Yeah. Um Yeah. And I I think we'll look to do that, but we also need to make sure that we're giving Dr. We have given him >> Yes. >> assignments that have a lot of moving parts that are very technical. Yes. And so I don't want to like schedule something for next week. Get back. You know what I'm saying? >> Once we get everything back and we >> because we're going to have to go through a little bit of that too. >> Quite frankly, we're going

178to have to call talk a couple times. >> Yeah, we are on it. I just didn't want to say it. So, >> so on the 21st, you're going to be providing us with additional things at that board meeting as well >> related to this >> additional what? >> Additional information at that board meeting. >> We're going to do the best we can. >> Okay. >> We're we have to rely on outside, you know, sources to help us with this. So, make those connections, see what their timeline can be. >> I I will provide at the 21st whatever we can provide. I think the biggest point for us at the 21st is identifying the scope of the second round of of bonds. >> Yeah, >> we have to remember that's our organizational meeting, too. So, we

179have a lot to do on that night. And I think that um >> I just think it's really important >> that we have meetings that are dedicated to this. >> Yes. >> So, we our minds are clear all the other stuff running through. we get all this other stuff done, you know, with what Tim just talked about and maybe we meet afterwards after our 21st meeting on a different day. >> On a different day. >> Yes. >> Make sure that on Saturday, >> not right after, >> but then we then we >> get more information, whatever Tim's going to give us, the additional information, and then we chat a little bit then. But if it takes two and a half hours to get that additional information, we won't be doing a lot of chatting that

180night. I mean, other than what we're doing, we might have to have another session another sit down after that where we talk and listen and >> brainstorm and go through that, >> etc. I do have one more ask because this process has been um very overwhelming with all of the moving pieces and I know it has been several like um Julie and I sit on the bargaining you know team and we're just there and my first time you I wanted to jump we're really just here to listen so you know I would like and feel more um comfortable and I think it may be an addition support to you. In fairness, I think you were given information and you were just like, "Okay, this is going to be the best thing to run with and

181that's what you did without any directions." But I would like and I would throw Kevin under the bus. You have meetings with Walpert in your um cabinet, correct? Do you >> a variety of folks? Yes. Yes. >> Okay. And so then if um you know maybe a board member can even be there and I think that'll even help because he should know in that moment kind of where we want to go and just to be there even just to listen to demon um to share the information because I think it was a big it was a big disconnect and I think we had a lot of things going on that could have been alleviated if we had like the liaison in the room with Walberg. I would just feel more comfortable not micromanaging or anything

182like that, but we do it on other committees. And this is very important. >> Yeah. My my only pause there is the Walpert's role in this may shift dramatically depending on the timing of the redistricting. So my next conversation with Karen will be to give us the other four the other two um boundary lines board we have not launched the survey from Monday pending this conversation tonight. So absolutely whatever that looks like going forward representation from the board is welcome and we will make that happen. I would recommend more than one person. No offense, Kevin, but I think the more we can have there to to really hear what's being said, we have lots of different ideas up here. Kevin, we don't want Kevin to get his, you know, his way on on >> next

183thing you know, we're opening a fifth grade >> all over the all over the district. But absolut absolutely going forward. >> Okay. >> We But that is going to be a and and whether it's a work session, which is probably the best idea. That's the clarity we're going to need. I'm going to need is really what is going to happen with that redistricting. We have led our community to believe, we've led our staff to believe certain things. And if we make a decision on the three um scenarios that we're kind of narrowed down to that I have homework on require construction which delay, you know, I think I heard we're you know, we don't want to redistrict twice in two years. So, whenever we can get communication out to our staff and families to let

184them know like, hey, all this information that we collected is great information. It was not a waste of time. The conversations, the input that you provided was um beneficial to help us get to where we are today. That being said, we believe this model, whatever we end up with, is the best model and we're going to do blank. I think you would have >> if I can sorry >> no I was I think you would have great support with that when one of the first meetings I think we were at Crestston was the first one I know one of the parents was like why are we rushing you know um so it's not like we're saying no we're not going to do this but giving phases I think phases are good phases are important um

185so I don't think that would come across to our community as a waste of time, but we're kind of um listening to their views as well and kind of okay, we need to do this in um phases. So, I think that would be a win >> completely agree >> win for us. >> This will be the second time that I've put a timeline out, which I'm great with. I just want to communicate it as soon as we can because right now everyone has February 18th circled on their calendar because that's the date I told them we were going to bring considerations to the board for approval. Now, do you have to continue to put a time a specific timeline because then that puts you under pressure and under a crunch like um I don't know

186instead of a spec specific date maybe a a task but with that disclosure this may change. >> I think the anxiety from our fifth grade teachers would want me to provide as much clarity as I can. There are some fifth grade teachers that do not want to move. There are some fifth grade teachers that do want to move. I think what we heard on Monday night from Mrs. Smith, she does not want her daughter to move from Brookview. Um, she's a fourth grader. She wants her daughter to stay. So, I know that that there's some anxiety with our our families, too, because, you know, once that calendar turns 2026, we're ending this year and we're already thinking about next year and family decisions and, you know, do I stay in Warren, do I not go

187to Warren? families that want to come to us. I'm great with not setting a deadline because I think that gives us flexibility. I do want to provide clarity for our stakeholders to give them to lessen their anxiety and and concern. So, I think there's a mix in them. We can we can figure that out. I I just wanted to we we gave you four scenarios that involved cost that we would need better details on because I mean I will I will look at Kevin because if we just do a fifth grade academy there's not a cost associate well I mean there's furniture blah blah blah blah blah I I don't want to say there's not a cost but there's not a construction cost and I think we were looking at construction cost numbers when we

188gave those to you >> would you be willing willing to go with Kevin to to the meeting with Wilford because he said he would prefer more than one person. So, we have a male and female. >> Miss Gorey, I think your schedule is more flexible than mine. >> Not right at this point. >> Oh, and it doesn't have to be the same person every time. I mean, I think >> Okay. And then here's the opportunity. Yes. >> Yes. I think that would be um good. Kevin, you know, you're our our main go to and then we'll um we can rotate out and definitely um if it's not Mondays Monday, Tuesdays and Wednesdays I'm with my clients so um those days I can make >> I'd be glad to offer mine if it was um after

1893:15. >> I can say as long as we don't have more than three, >> we're not in any problem with the open door law. Thank you for tonight. I think we have a lot. >> Yes. >> So, I will do the the formal. So, thank you everyone. I think this was really really good. I always like it when things are really really good. There's lots of good discussion. It's the whole we don't have to agree but we have to talk things through. Um >> can I say this? Um, I I really feel better about this meeting because Monday it was like Wolford was saying, "This is what you can't do. You can't do you can't do." And it was very frustrating. But you came in tonight and you gave us so many different options that

190we can take a look at and then we can make decisions about it. And this is what we were looking for on Monday and we didn't get. But I thank you for coming in and giving us what we needed tonight. So now we have a lot to think about. We have scenarios uh that we can look over and then we can try to come to a consensus on what we want to do. So thank you. I know that took a lot of hard work to try to get that together in a couple of days. >> I have a great I have a great team. >> So um I do want to thank everyone who's watching, everyone who showed up this evening. Um we appreciate your inputs always and the fact that the community knows what's

191going on. Hopefully, although it was us talking with each other, sometimes we have to discuss and we get to discuss with an open door. So, you get to hear the discussion. Um, that is the nature of the beast. We will be doing this, I'm sure, several more times. So with that, >> sorry >> President Burke, if I may, um, and to our public because it was public for our marketing going forward, we will make sure that our meetings, if it's community engagement, we are in a community engagement setting, or if it's work setting, we will make sure that that language is clearly communicated. So we're not causing any confusion. Yeah. >> And one last thing, I know that we ended on the note of about the fifth graders and our different scenarios for them. Could

192you also bring to us about um the high ability class because I'm still sort of stuck on that whether what the options that we have. >> So Gloria with with a lot of respect, I think we got to make one decision before we make the other decision. So, we just going to do one at a time or >> Yeah, I I I I think that's the We got to figure out what we're doing before we figure out because if we have fifth graders in a one five building, that's by nature going to look different. It'll it might be 35 versus two. You know what I'm saying? We need to know how many grades we're talking about, where and when before we can look. I'm not saying we don't look at the options. I'm just saying

193we have to have a base that we're making those options off of. >> So, I'm glad you said that because I know if I was a parent listening, I didn't hear anything about high ability, I wouldn't know that. So, what we're saying to parents, we need to establish how we want our buildings first, K through five, and what we're going to do then, and then we will better know how we can do our high ability classes. So I just want to clarify that >> because we don't know how to look at an option. If we have a K4 building or we have fifth on its own or we have a K5 buildings or a 105 building or whatever scenario all of those present different options and so you're looking at 40 options when only two

194of them are going to work. Do you see what I'm saying? So we need to figure out where we are. >> And I mean obviously I I had kids go went through the program. I care very deeply about it just like I had kids that go through the special pro ed program and care very deeply about it. But we need to know what we're physically doing with our buildings and before we can have a meaningful discussion where we're not discussing 20 things that aren't going to work out because that's not what our buildings are going to look like anyway. >> I'm so glad you clarified that so to our listeners if they were confused about that at least they can get a better understanding. Thank you. >> Yeah. And I mean to what Dr. Hansen

195said to teachers who have concerns and parents who have concerns and want to know sooner rather than later, I understand that. Um I I I was a parent when we redisted last time and I literally remember like that last day of school, last week of school, running around with a chicken with my head chopped off trying to figure out what I was doing when and with whom. Um so I want to acknowledge the frustration, but if we don't do this right, we're back here again in five years. and that doesn't benefit anyone. Um, and so we are going to have to ask for some grace to try to make sure that we're making the best decision. And the best decision is not always the fastest decision. And with that, while the heat is still on,

196yay. So, whoever in facilities did that, we love you. Thank you so much. >> Um, I'm going to adjourn the meeting. >> Thank you. Thank you so much for clarifying.