001through wireless devices, the freedom of expression, and then hazing. But I did notice or would realize that there is a discrepancy from last time from our previous work on the police interviews and whatnot. There is a discrepancy from what we had planned years prior and now. So if we can get to it tonight, I'd like to, but I think we just go ahead and start with the very first one, the 5305B. Do we need to do a roll call first? Yes, and then you didn't do a call to the audience, which we don't have any, but just to follow the agenda. Okay. And I'll go ahead and just do roll call. I'll write down who's who's here. Okay. Okay. And like I mentioned, there was no call to the public. Nobody submitted anything. Perfect. Okay.
002And then also while we're while she's getting it up, Alexis Goga, the behavior interventionist, here did say that she would be willing to support, but she's actually handling an IEP right now and so she once she's done with the IEP, she'll join us or she'll at least be at the next meeting. And she did send me a chat a little bit ago. Perfect. All right, so we're looking at 5-305B, correct? Mhm. Okay. Did everyone have a chance to go in and make comments or do we need like a time just to kind of review before we start discussing? I like I've been deep in the trenches of test prep, so I have not read it yet. I I have been reading it while we just logged in. Okay. I'm way behind on the homework this
003week. Oh, you're fine. So why don't we go ahead and give everyone about like five Let's do five minutes cuz it is a pretty short one and then we can start the conversation after that if that works for everybody. Thank you. Good. >> Okay, I can be ready with that one if you guys are. Is everybody ready? I read it earlier, so I'm good. Okay. I think I saw that just Justin was on here, too, right? Yeah, I was going to say um we can move forward. Okay. James um Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and get started, but James let us know if you need to stop. I actually deleted my comment on the first one, so um I do have a question about our definition for school day, but I think it it
004really tightly aligns to Amy's first comment. Um so I kind of was just going to hop down to what she has. Um Amy, did you want to share your thinking first? Sure. Um well, I was just making sure I was unmuted. Um but it says I'm just essentially wondering if this needs to be modified to include like after-school programming, like 21st century. But I'm not really sure how to word it because like that in like when we have sports, kids are texting, like will message their parents and things like that. But if you're in programming, like 21st century, you're looking at an enrichment class. And it can be anything from knitting to STEM science to math or literacy practice, and you shouldn't be using your phone during then. So, I just don't know how to
005word that, and I just wanted to bring it up should it be an issue. And that kind of aligns to what I was thinking as well. Um Have a good day, everybody. So sorry. Um My wondering was it here it says before after school at the dismissal, and we have done like if you were on campus or even if you were on the bus. And so the and and that it causes a lot of complexity. So, my wondering was do we want to modify it? Like it's before like you're using basically like maybe you're not filming after school, but you do you do have the capacity to like use your your phone for like phone calls or texts or something. Um cuz I think that's what really is the concern is after school students like
006staging and then filming fights. And so I was kind of on the same boat too of like do we need to like have it modified where there's like a little bit of more flexibility cuz it is you know there's you're always navigating the conversation of like well my mom called me cuz she told me I needed to go to this different spot. Um and so that was my wondering. Or my mom told me to grab my sibling cuz we're in line right now and so it but you're still on campus and then it's caused issues of like you have your phone out and I I don't know what it the rule was before, but before this it was like no phones while you were on campus. So it just causes a lot of um you
007know and and most most staff use their judgment and say okay you're just messaging your mom and she's telling you to go here and she you know, but it it it I just want it to be cohesive and consistent and so that's why I just wasn't quite sure, but then also when students are entering campus technically it's before school and the bell hasn't rung yet, but you're on campus and you shouldn't be using your phone during like morning recess. I just didn't know how to word it and I wanted to bring it up or am I getting too far in the weeds on this? But these are all things that have happened. Yeah, no agreed. Um maybe we just do like a round table. Evan, what are you thinking? Um I have similar thoughts. I
008I know we haven't really had too many cell phone issues um at Kennedy yet. Um but I I agree maybe like some more parameters in terms of like I don't know. Cuz right, it doesn't make sense. Like if it's if it's communicating with your parent about pick up, drop off, whatever, like that seems okay, but for the other reasons, no. But I don't know how to phrase that. Are they allowed to use phones on the bus? Sorry, this makes it seem like they are. So it does make it seem like they are. And at Monta Vista, we've basically done like door-to-door. So like if if you're like off campus cuz you're walking, you can go ahead and use it. But if you were on our buses, we were counting that as on campus. But when
009I read this, it's a little bit looser than what we are currently doing. Yeah. >> Um Justin or James, what are you thinking? Just your initial thoughts on especially a before-and-after-school situation. So Oh, go ahead. Okay, sorry about that. Um I think that it's hard to word it to where it covers all situations. And um I think that um it'll be difficult to to verbalize it to where it covers every single situation that that came up even just in the last minute of talking. Um how much of this is is a case-by-case, you know, like what what a school defines versus what the policy at the district level defines? I'll be honest, it can vary from year to year. Um I've had years where it hasn't been an issue whatsoever cuz what students be like,
010"Hey, I need to call my mom really quick." Um and it's at like dismissal time and it's not an issue and that's just what we've told our kids so it doesn't look like you're out messing around on your phone and like not paying attention and stuff like that. Um and so and it hasn't been an issue and then it's been big issues where especially like in the morning or things going around on Snapchat or um TikTok or other things. It It varies from year to year. It varies sometimes from quarter to quarter or week to week. Would you Would you all agree with that? But, I will say it can be a big issue. And my thing is is whatever we do, I want it to be very clear for students for all of our
011audiences, right? For our parents, for our students, for our teachers, um for administrators because the last thing I want to do is have something very unclear and the teacher thinks they're following the policy and they're reinforcing what's supposed to happen, and then the parents like, "Well, no, this isn't what the policy says." By the way, stuff like that has happened. Um and then the administrator's kind of in that gray area or vice versa. I just want it to be very clear and delineated for all of all of our audiences. So, that there isn't that question and so it doesn't feel like unfair or people are nitpicking or trying to get someone in trouble. We just want it to be I guess uh safe environment that's conducive for learning for all students. Did I say that
012clearly? Yeah. No. Yeah, I think you did. The last sentence is what um what is coming up. Students may not use a device to disrupt educational environment. Are they disrupting the educational environment if it is before or after school, but they're on school campus? It can. Yeah. I I think the scenarios that I've seen where it's like that is the students will film each other. They'll do something embarrassing and they'll post it they'll post it on a TikTok or something later on at home. And so then what ends up happening is it bleeds into like, "Oh, they took my picture." and then there's like the disruption of that um is what I'm going to gather this is probably referring to. So, then could we could extend the the school day? Like could could instead of
013it just being before and after school, could it be I guess it would depend um because the schools have early early dismissals than others, but let's just say for example uh one school is from 8:00 to 3:00. Could it just be from 7:00 until 4:00? Mhm. Yeah. The one thing I think about is like tricky and I'm not trying to be difficult, I swear. Um is if it's a sporting event and then the kid's trying to get a hold of their parent like, "Oh, no, the game got moved." Or the bus is delayed or I just Or I I I think cuz we are from from this is different than previous policy. Um and so we are strict so we are like a phones could be confiscated before or after school. Um and I kind
014of like as long as students weren't it for social media or like filming of content, I don't think it honestly would matter if they were using it before or after school because there's so much stuff going on. Um so those would kind of be my that's like my hard line is the filming because you don't know who they're filming and who's in the background and there's like media release. But just like before or after school communication, I don't think that that it's it's more difficult to police than it is a problem. I would agree with that. That it's it's more about the filming and the social media. Um can those things be added to this? Cuz even if they're at a basketball game and they're they're filming, isn't that also an issue? If it's like
015they don't have kids' permission or they put something up that makes the school look bad. Like wouldn't that still be an issue then? I would tend to agree. I do have to step away, but I I agree, Justin, and I would I think that would remedy if we could put something like that in. Um, but I am going to step away for just a moment, everyone. So, I'm looking at the highlighted part here. Students may use their wireless communication devices before after school for personal use use but do um including on school transportation, but may not film other students. I don't know. Or post to social media. Okay. Are you guys okay if I add that? So, I I have a question. Can Can you hear me? Yeah. Um, so and and I I apologize
016for coming in late. So, if you already talked about this part, um just let me know. Uh, what about the new Arizona law that was passed, I believe it was last April, that's supposed to restrict um it's it I thought it was supposed to have charter schools and and public schools create rules that limit student cell phone use during the school day. That we're talking specifically after school. No, I understand that, but my my my thought process is that if you're limiting school if you're if if the spirit of the law is based on limiting student cell phone use um and I understand we have to create parameters and stuff. Uh, if if if if we choose to kind of embrace the spirit of that, I would say that it that that having having a
017policy that does not encourage cell phone use during school day before or after, for whatever reason, is probably a good idea. That's my thought. Cuz I I mean I I mean I can tell you that uh especially for cell phone use, I we've had more problems with cell phone usage before and after school and games and everything else than uh than than anything else. And I know once they're off campus, there's not a whole lot we can do uh to enforce that. Um but on campus and on school events and and field trips and things, um uh I I mean I feel like there's at least some should be addressed in some capacity. Um and I I I mean I I So I I and I guess I'm I'm curious and I and I think
018about this I I kind of relate this to uh like the staff uh staff dress code policy where like years ago we had a staff dress code policy, but then it was recommended that since it was something that was difficult to uh enforce or have there was a lot of parameters that are around it, was easier it would I think the lawyer recommended at the time to just not have a policy. Um uh and I was just curious how people felt about that. And the thought process behind that is that it could be um it doesn't necessarily need to be uh something spelled out exactly um that it could be left to the sites to go and um and make decisions about what's best for their school cuz I I feel like each school has
019unique um unique um situations that what could be acceptable at one school may not be acceptable at another school. And I don't know if there's uh we've had this conversation before about standardizing versus autonomy. Um and I don't know how people feel about those things, um, but, um, I can tell you like at in in general, um, cell phone use for me anyway should be limited as much as possible. But, I'm coming from a biased perspective, so I could be wrong. Well, and I think we're trying to systematize as much as possible. So, in terms of of this because it is policy that like I would like it to be as consistent as possible. So, that's why I'm um I mean, Loma Linda had a pretty harsh policy. If you were caught using your phone,
020we didn't even send it home with you. We made your parents come and pick it up that day that day or we kept it until they did. Right. No, I I guess I I'm not really I mean, I I feel like we could systematize the the expectations and the rules as much as possible, um, but I I guess I question whether or not it's necessary to uh define uh the school day. So, I I believe that was that was kind of my point as well in bringing it when I brought that up. It was like, can it be up to the sites? And I think the rebuttal was that you would hate for, um, you know, a parent, for example, to to site this document as a reason why the school is wrong. And so,
021they're just trying to get it so where it's verbalized in a way that does fit all schools, but I also, um, like I said, I side with what you're saying. Um, but it's also for me being an outsider. Like one of my reasons why I side with that is just correct me, um, actually not even correcting me, but if you all answer this question, is every school one-to-one or are there some schools that are one-to-one and some that aren't? All schools are one-to-one. >> One-to-one devices? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so that's the all schools. Okay. Okay, my my I guess then my my next thought doesn't really matter. So. Yeah, and I I mean I I fully support systematizing rules and systematizing regulations and expectations in terms of the actual usage of cell phones. I'm I'm
022not arguing that. I I embrace that. I guess I just wonder if it's necessary to define the school day only because it has the potential to be uh to a sort of lock us in where somebody could say, "Oh, well, you know, your policy says this this and this um when we're trying to enforce, you know, X, Y, or Z uh rule." Sometimes uh uh uh a little vagueness actually works to our advantage. And my question would be where uh what's the power in going in defining the school day? Like what what's the advantage of doing that? I think it's because if I don't know, and I am like not committed to anything, but I imagine we have to show like in terms of like the use the kids are doing, you had to define
023in some way why when this policy is relevant. Cuz otherwise it's like restrictions of wireless communication devices if you don't identify like the time and place, then you would theoretically just be like I don't know. I think I'm I don't know if I'm understanding what you're saying, but I do I think it's purely to kind of identify like when this is in place. Because at one point they said before and after school, so then you have to define what the school day is. Uh so I mean I I I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know those things, but uh my my understanding is that anytime where uh students are under the care of or supervision of us is when rules apply, right? So, I get and that's why I'm asking the question, is it
024necessary to define school day? Because once they leave campus and they're off campus on their own, I'm not saying the rules don't apply, especially if it's something that is the portal to portal type of aspect, but it becomes I mean, for me it's it's it's a it becomes a tool in order to prosecute of a particular or investigate, you know, like if there's a fight, like I can give an example, we had a fight that was off campus and we had worked with parents and stuff to get cell phone footage in order to be part of the investigation. So, to me it's just an issue of how how we go and use that and if there was ever a situation where something took place off campus and I and I could be wrong about this,
025but if it took place off campus, then that's in the realm of of the police. So, like if a if a kid went and this is my question, too. If a kid went and said something threatening to another kid off campus and it was documented on a social media platform that was at not during school hours. I mean, I know we could still go and use that as part of the investigation, but I would feel like we would have some limitations in terms of what we could do, you know, like if if something was going to happen, we can handle the on campus stuff, but if it happens at someone's house or someone's somewhere off campus, we we have no control over that and we usually recommend that the parent call the police and have
026the police come investigate. So, to me the and and and I'm just I'm just throwing stuff out. I could be really, really wrong here. So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like the those domains are pretty well defined already in terms of like where things happen and how they happen. So, I feel like it's it makes our it could be used against us by going and defining the school day. And you know, let's have whatever restrictions that we want in place in terms of the policy and systematize them as much as we possibly can. I'm all for that. Uh but I almost feel like defining the school day could be a disadvantage. Does that make sense? So, I'm listening to the conversation and I'm wondering like if maybe we're getting a little
027bit too much in the weeds of the things. And I would feel better, much better honestly, if we just took out the before school part. What if we took My thought was going to be what if we took out that whole sentence? What if we took out students may use their wireless communication devices before and after school for personal use including on school transportation. What if we just remove that and kept it as students are required to use their wireless communication devices in conformity with the student code of conduct. Students may not use their device to disrupt the educational environment. Actually, that's pretty perfect and brilliant, Evan. Thank you. >> Then it would just like on your site, whatever you allow, but then for policy it's I don't know. That's why Evan's awesome. I think
028that's perfect. Are you guys okay with that? Yes. Then I'm going to take this part out that we even added. And then I'm going to just cross that sentence out. Sorry, I could hear you, but I I'm a little confused. So, does that just mean that we're going to say that it's like always restricted other than these three times. Then I think it would be open to your schools code of conduct. Okay. Whatever you write into Monte Vista's student code of conduct about like before and after school use. Okay. So is that what we're putting in here? So I'm so sorry. We have families waiting and some other things happening. So I just didn't hear the last part. So we're deleting this sentence and then we're we're including a sentence that says something about like
029policy can be determined by sites additional policies or were we just taking that out? I think it already says that cuz it says that they will use their phone in conformity with the student code of conduct which is that. But the student code of conduct they're discussing is the policy code of conduct right here, not like our individual one. It's the one that we did like 50 2 505. I don't even know which one it is. Um so that would mean that we would um So this this sentence alone doesn't say that schools can make it for their own like they can't make their own wireless policy. This just means that like they're required to use it like following whatever's in that previous policy which is like um you won't damage property, you won't like
030hurt others. So I think uh if we're going to do that and we are saying that every school could have their own policy, we would need to add some verbage cuz that that's not exactly what this particular sentence is saying. And by the way, I'm totally down with this. That's fine. I just feel like we got to like clarify more of what you have there. Yeah. What if we say Let's see. Can we just add with student code of conduct and school site uh I don't know. Student handbooks? Well, if we're just talking about before or after school, like the use um and transportation, I feel like you could say something as like um and like Jay or Katie help me out cuz I never remember how the sentences go, but it's something like >>
031Yeah. the superintendent provides uh like well, allows their designee administration or their designee or something to um develop uh before after school policies in accordance to governing board student code of conduct and um site needs or something. Do you know? Yeah, I I think I think we could make this even a little more beneficial here because um what if you did something like students are required to use their wireless communication devices in conformity with the student code of conduct and as directed by school staff. Okay. So, that what that would do is it would give you the ability. So, if you've got that kid who needs to you know, use their phone to coordinate with mom then someone at pick up or drop off can say, "Yes, you have you know, you have permission from
032me as a staff member to use your phone to do that." But, it doesn't give kids blanket permission to just pull their phone out and use it in any way they want. And even if they do pull their phone out to use it in any way they want, they're also held um they're also held to the student code of conduct. So, if they use it in some way to disrupt the learning environment, like by you know, trying to film somebody who doesn't want to be filmed or something, then then you have that protection as well. Does that sound reasonable? Yeah, that works. Um the next comment was just with it was kind of a clarifying question. At Monavista because the kids can't use their phones during the school day, we always like um say that
033if you need to contact your parent, you're using a school device or phone and I don't I just don't know if that's like something special to what we've been doing or if that's kind of like what we've done in the past. And so I just wanted to see like what is how are people reading this? Like um the kids can use their phone to contact their parent as long as the teacher or staff member told them or just that like we're allowing them to contact families. That was all I was wondering. I'm actually not reading it that way at all. I'm reading it as um students may contact their parent or guardian during the school day with express permission from a teacher or staff member and that it doesn't like delineate like it doesn't say
034students' personal device. And it doesn't say school device. I think it leaves it open and so I think you just I think that's fine. The way it's wrote. Yeah, cuz we've had we've had times where the our preference is always a school device or school phone or something like that. But there have been an occasion or two where we've reached out to a parent or guardian regarding a specific kid. They don't answer and then we ask the kid to call on their cell phone and they answer. So. >> I've had that happen too, but I think this leaves it open to that. It doesn't say That's why I think we should leave it as is. And the next one that that was me that put it in. It's the same thing about before and after
035school and designated areas as such as the cafeteria. I feel like that's like rule for high school policy. Um not for like elementary schools. So, if we were to add something like we had in the that Jay recommended in the prior section. And maybe we take that part out. I think since we I think because we took it out before we would just end up taking it out here cuz I think I I have a feeling that that first bullet is especially because you were like, "Fine, you can use it for after school." But then this gave us like an a way to say like those two areas. Like we could designate. So, like we can't use it inside building A, but you can use it in our courtyard. Um So, I think we probably
036could just take it out since it's already been kind of taken out from the other side. Cuz we never have problems on the playground or in the cafeteria. I know. I was like, "Really? That's there you're going to give them access?" Nope. So, just cross it and strike through it. Is that Are you guys good with that? Yeah. That reminds me of like a smoking section. Um so, I'm just going to throw this out there, James, because I participated in a student side council committee at my own at my own child's school earlier today. Please also know I'm going on limited caffeine and limited sleep, too. So, um if I'm not clear, just tell me. Um is that uh they were presenting their project and they were asking for funds for something and they're like
037and they asked how long this group had been around. They're like, "I don't know. We saw a banner that said something in the 1900s. So, it's been around a long time." And I was like So, that just made me think smoking and non-smoking. Yeah, I thought that was funny. >> yourself, James. You dated yourself on that one. That's okay. Um Your next comment, uh Amy, we we actually have had our kids use their um their personal devices in our technology class for a particular unit. It um it's like a total one-off, uh but they they their phones allowed for like more kids to participate in like the I don't know. They made robots and like they could all interact more if they were using their phones, but that's the only time that we've ever done
038it. So, I agree if it it if it's more at greater than high school, it could be there or not be there, but that's the only time I've seen it happen here. Well, I think that's just like one of those one-off situations where like that's a special situation. Yeah. So, I think delete delete it. Well, I think if uh I don't know. It's not It doesn't come up at in general. I think you could delete it cuz it's not saying that you can never use it if your teacher has you use it express, but I do think we should just take out the social media networks. We have uh our journalism club, they have their own Instagram, but it's run by the teacher, but we don't let the kids like access it to like I
039mean, I guess technically they can view it maybe like but they don't actually do anything with it. I just I don't know. Social media one makes me a little bit nervous just cuz I don't know. How about students may not access social media networks during instructional time periods, period. That's what I'm saying personally, but Are Is everyone else okay if I strike through that last part? Yeah, I'm okay with that. I'm going to highlight that as well. And then I don't know if there were any other comments on this one. I think we were done on this one. Actually, I'm sorry. Maybe we should hold. We I want to confirm um cuz I don't know if other schools have kids using the make like making Tik Toks or making like videos that they're posting on
040social media and if the teachers are doing it or not. Like we just us in particular we have Goga handling like the main maintenance and posting of them all like the teacher, but I wonder if we need to find out if other schools are doing something cuz then they may need that like express permission allowed. So then why don't we keep Students may not access social media networks during instructional periods uh I'm sorry, instructional time periods unless directed by staff. Yeah. You're okay with that? I think that would work cuz I don't know what other schools are doing and I I do know some of them are using it. Sorry. What's that different from the original language? That's what I was saying. I don't know if it like we maybe actually do need to keep
041that scratched out line because um I don't know what all the campuses are doing. Okay. Are we good on that one then? I think so. I'm good. So our next one we had 5-301. Is that correct? Mhm. Can you guys hear that in the background? Yeah. You know That's my husband That is my husband sneezing from the other room. I thought it was a dog barking. It's my husband sneezing from the other room with the door closed. That's how loud it is. I'm going to say I thought I thought it was a dog barking, too. It's not. It's my husband. Imagine sitting next to that in the driver seat while you're driving. On a road trip when you're tired, just saying. Love my husband, but yes. That's hilarious. It does startle me sometimes. He's going
042to kill me that this is live. Okay. Um And public and and public. I mean, he does that in public. So There have been times when people literally have jumped next to him. Okay. I Sorry. I'm going to get back on track. I'm tired. Breathe in some oxygen to get my brain going again. Okay. Um I don't think there's any comments on this one. Did Oh, just kidding. I did. Um and then do we you guys need a few minutes to like read through this first before we jump to it? I've read this one. I didn't have any didn't have any comments that you guys hadn't already picked out. Justin or James, did you need a moment to review it? Not me. I didn't, either. So, we can go ahead and start with your comment.
043Okay. Um so, okay. Okay, so this is about I'm going to recenter myself again. Um Nothing in this policy should should be read as prohibiting the district from Um so my question was and I read it twice, but maybe I missed it was something in terms of do we need something that explicitly states I know that most of our schools are uniform, but not all of them are. Um and I wonder if schools will continue to be uniform schools as they're being rebuilt. Um but one that talks about explicitly prohibiting clothing that promotes the use of drugs or alcohol etc. or unsafe articles of clothing and I'm going to say this cuz early 2000s Um do you remember or like from the 90s those like spike earrings that people used to have? I actually had
044a student that wore those, but she fell on them in PE and stabbed herself and had to go to the hospital. Yikes. Swear to all like but um yeah, she had to go and get stitches. I I was thinking the same thing like was wondering it too. Um that's why I put the three S's. I apologize. I just realized I interrupted you. You're fine. Um so I was just like is that something that we need to to to include like clothing that prohibits or promotes drugs or alcohol and then something with like unsafe items. So we tell our kids um like that they always need to consider like the three S's and the one is it's literally safety, school, and skin. Um and so the safety which is something that I feel like we also
045don't see in here and then um like the skin like if you're needing to protect your modesty, it's not appropriate for free dress days. But then school messaging, we say anything that goes against the school messaging that we are teaching you on campus would be an issue. Um, and so it's like you can't wear your like cookies thing. So, I do feel like it would be nice to have something that was like aligned in some way to um, things that don't promote like unsafe behaviors like that. So, I didn't know how to put it necessarily. Um, so that's why I just put like remember the three S's cuz you wanted to ask people about it, but I I'm leaning to where you're at that we add something like that. I I agree, too. I I
046guess my question would be does one does number one fit that? I I read number one that like um, it was talking more about like when we're responding to their behaviors, maintaining order to Cuz your three S's, in my opinion, I I love that. That's great, three S's. Um, I feel like that number one kind of addresses that, but maybe it needs to be more specific. And I read number one is that like I I would I would enforce policies by being neutral. So, I I read it more as like this is going to be like we will maintain objectivity, and I think that is different than But, it can't go against like the like the school um, like policies. So, I I don't know. I didn't read that that would cover it, but I
047also feel like I read another thing earlier incorrectly. What about you, Justin and Evan? So, my I I a I'm sorry, go ahead. You're good. All right, I was going to say I my only thought is that I don't think that covers everything of like today's day and age. Um as far as like what you could have on a shirt that could be seen as as such. Like for example, um if I had I'm not sure if you guys even know. Do you know Tory Lanez is? Does anyone know who he is? Or you guys may know like Megan Thee Stallion. Have you all heard those names before? I know who is. We're with you. Megan Thee Stallion? Okay, so one of the big things is um Megan Thee Stallion had um I'll just call
048her Megan. I don't want this to be recorded. I'm calling her that. Megan Megan Thee Stallion. >> Megan, yeah, yeah. Or so um there was a situation where her and another rapper got into some type of issue and the other rapper's now in jail. Um and it had like gun violence and things like that. Like if someone came to the school with a shirt that had Tory Lanez's face on it, which he's a very popular He's extremely popular artist. Um then that could or says like free tone free Tory or you know, stuff like that. Um even on outside of like celebrities, there are also memes and GIFs and things that are really popular online now that mean vulgar things that we would just never know. And so I'm wondering if if um like right
049now at least the the question that was posed prohibiting clothing that promote the use of drugs and alcohol. Like I could have a picture of um like Future with another artist. Future is very much so he talks about drugs and lean and alcohol use and things like that. And it would promote it just from his presence on my my shirt. Um and kids do things like that and that's also very popular nowadays with uh with new clothing designers and things like that. So I'm wondering if if if that would be getting too much into the weed of things as well or if that's something that we can add that would be pretty simple. We have like uh narco wrappers, too. Right. Evan, I think you were starting to say something. Um I I hear you,
050Justin. I was going to actually throw it to Katie and see what she what she might say. Um and Jay, but I recall Evan wanting to say something. I was just saying like on this that first point, I I was reading it as more of like from the standpoint of their like the freedom of expression, which is what this policy is about. More like that like looking at that from a neutral Yeah. >> standpoint, not like types of clothes and year three esses. So, I I would say we would need to add something. Um Can I give an another example really quick? Like just for the sake of the conversation. If someone came in with a um not to get political or anything, but someone came in with a Turning Point USA shirt on or
051a a just a picture of Eric Kirk or Charlie Kirk or just like something that is like you know, people clearly can't support it and there's nothing against people and what they support, but it's it's you know, potentially divisive nature of wearing the article of clothing like is that like is that something that we're not touching or is is it something that we do want to think about when talking about this? I think in terms of I from myself, I think in terms of like politics. Sorry, I don't know who else was saying something. Um like that is something that we wouldn't want to address depending on either side, whatever side people are on. Um but we would not want to unless it became a situation where it was like We probably We would probably
052offensive where in terms of like um What was the thing? I I don't know. Yeah, I don't think that we're able to um Like unless there is um a certain level of disruption that would come from it. Um so I think that that So I don't I don't know. Um I know that like uh they they we went to a law conference and they had mentioned something about like people's responses to Charlie Kirk and like the res what teachers were able to to wear was very different than what they were allowing the kids to wear. Like that was mentioned that like um the kids don't have like the same They have more rights than like the teachers would have So I don't I don't recall exactly how they told us about it. Jay, were you
053going to say something? Yeah, I was going to point us back to item one from that list. So I think the reason it says maintaining order and discipline in a content and viewpoint neutral manner. So the order and discipline component is is if somebody was wearing that shirt with that you know, political figure on it and it wasn't disruptive to the learning environment, it wasn't creating problems, then we don't really have the ability to restrict it. If doing that created problems, but then somebody else showed up in a Bernie Sanders shirt and um and that was creating problems and but in that case we didn't afford enforce it because whoever was doing the enforcement was more aligned with Bernie Sanders beliefs than with Charlie Kirk's beliefs, then that would not be a viewpoint neutral manner.
054But if we're equally enforcing anytime an article of clothing depicting something is disruptive to the learning environment, then we have the ability to restrict it. Does that help at all? And wasn't there that kid in that high school kid that um was wearing a uh Make America Great Again shirt in some other state and got punched in the face or something like that? And then the other kid got suspended for it. I think it was like in Ohio or something like that. I think I did hear about that. I I guess that's that's kind of my point, too. Um is that something that we just leave out completely and address as it comes? I think that personally um the political climate of today, that's actually more divisive and pressing than some of the other things
055that we're talking about. Very good question. >> you know, so so I'm just I'm just bringing it to the attention and I know that we're focusing on this and this is important, um but just in my line of work and what I've seen, that is actually a a bigger elephant than we're actually uh you know, what's outlined thus far. So if and Jay, if if you could speak to this, too, is it possible to just say like no political shirts or no political or is that I don't constitutional? >> Yeah, I don't believe so because I believe it becomes a free speech issue. And so, you know, kind of going back to um what was shared earlier about you know, us having more ability to direct teachers in that regard than we have to direct
056students. Student free speech is large I mean, obviously there's there's federal and state statutes, but a lot of the way that it's applied is driven by a case called the Tinker case. And that's the case law that tends to um impact this, and I believe it dates back to like the Vietnam War era and um students, you know, wearing articles of clothing to protest the war. And so, this has been hashed through the courts pretty um heartily over the years, and typically um any district's attempt to control political speech in particular um tend to get um denied by the courts, become problematic for the district unless the district can prove a uh it's not significant, a um substantial disruption to the learning environment is the language that they use. So, that and that's why I
057was saying earlier um I mean, we we we could say substantial disruption, but maintaining order and discipline is actually broader, but ultimately the only protection we would have if somebody were to fight being restricted in this way would be if we could prove a substantial disruption to the learning environment. And so, and we we can double-check with legal counsel if we want to put a phrase together that we think would be beneficial. I have no problem with us running it by legal. Um I my suspicion is um it would run afoul of free speech and Tinker as case law. Yeah, we had a kid I thought I think it was a couple years ago that that wore a a MAGA hat to school, and nobody said anything. I personally don't necessarily feel comfortable putting anything
058about anything in politics in there, although I do 100% agree with you, Justin, that it is can be incredibly some of the most divisive. I honestly, with students, I think if it were they were to wear a t-shirt with drugs or alcohol on it, I don't think that's necessarily a divisive situation. It's just inappropriate for school, which is why I was suggesting we put it in there. Understood. I think honestly for a lot of the reasons that Jay was saying, I just think that opens up a whole can of whole can of worms. And for the record, Justin, I don't I also don't disagree with anything you said. I just also have sat through a lot of trainings on this particular topic. Same. Maybe we hold on this one cuz I'm wondering if we go
059back to the um students' rights and responsibilities and then also the drug and alcohol policy, it might already be included in both of those things. In terms of the like school messaging and the divisive messaging, that might already be um in the rights and responsibilities uh because it would like directly align to like disruption. I don't know for sure, but if we pause, we can kind of like look into that and when we come back. And then the same with the like drugs and alcohol, I feel like we should go and look at that and see what it says. If it says anything in the drugs and alcohol policy about not promoting it, too, cuz then it kind of it'd already be covered. Okay. I'm I'm fine with that. And then maybe actually sorry, and
060maybe we can do kind of like a bonus homework and if people could just comment on this with what verbage they maybe would want to use as you were thinking about it and then that way we could have like a starting point if it isn't covered. Would that be okay with everyone? Yeah. I think so. That works. Yep. Do we want to continue looking at this one? I think yeah. Okay. Um Adriana, you already spoke about the 3S to dress code. Yeah, it was the exact same thing that you brought up. I just was a memory cue for myself. Um and then So you're you want to speak to this or you're saying like for 15 business days? Or school days? Uh yeah, I I feel like we in a previous policy and I just
061couldn't remember we were talking about the days thing and we did come up with a decision and I believe we said it was business days and so then I thought like just for like formatting and like ensuring it's all the same we would put business in here but I honestly I couldn't remember it might have been calendar. I I remember having the conversation too but I can't remember what we landed on. I think it was about the response to like a concern or or something to I can't remember. Yeah, it was it was then. I just had Well can tell you in Title IX situations, it's um like business days, like school days when we're in session. And I think we should stick with that then. Do you want to say business days or school
062days? I think you could put business days cuz sometimes we work on non-school days, right? So, if I violate the principal of the school, so the principal would have 15 work days or business days. And then I think that's the last comment. Um I know we didn't get to the last one, but it is 5:35. Mind me, what are we scheduled to go to? We technically end at 6:00. Um what's the next policy we have? The hazing? Uh I will say I I had no nothing that I could see that I would change in the hazing one, so it probably would be a quick one. Um but that being said, uh the stakeholders I was waiting for are here, so I am going to have to leave the meeting. So, Amy, if you don't mind
063wrapping us up, and then um I'll hop back on if you guys are still on. Uh but we could either pick a new date or we can um you guys could do the policy without me, okay? Okay. Thank you everyone. So sorry to hop off. Yep. Team, what would you like to do? Would you like to continue or would you like to stop now and we can look at the hazing at the next time and then that will give us time to also look at um the policy about clothing. I'll jump in and say I'm fine with uh stopping here. Okay. Um let me see. Justin, are you okay with that? It's scheduled for a week from today, too. Are we have another in another week? I does I think Yeah, I was going to
064say that. It was on my calendar too that we had another one next week at the same time. Yeah, our next one is next Thursday. Um I won't be at that one. It is the night before the meeting, so we may need to figure out who all is is able to be there that day. I am not able to be there for that day, but it is not for that. I have a medical appointment that will be out that day, so. Does anybody else have any um issues with that date? I do not. I can be there. I can reluctantly be there. Okay. And Amy, just if you want to look at the policy and then leave notes if you I will be try to be very clear. I try to add more detail this
065time so that way people weren't like, "What is she talking about?" Okay, so with that then Do I need to make a motion to adjourn the meeting? Yes. I make a motion that we adjourn the meeting. Second. All those in favor? I. I. Anyone opposed? All right, having said that our meeting is over. Thank you everyone. Wait, so for next time Take care. meeting and the the one about freedom of expression again? Yes. Okay. All right, thank you. Thanks everyone. Bye.