March 5th, 2026 Meet and Confer

001Thank you. Are these mine? >> I appreciate you. All right, good morning everybody. We'll uh go ahead and get started. Try to uh keep with our uh norms of trying to start on time and end on time. Um, a couple of things. Obviously, we've got we have, if you looked at the agenda, we've got it's it's aggressive. Uh, and I am hopeful today that we're going to get a lot accomplished. And so, um, I'm looking forward to that. I want to just reorient everybody again. Same things that we've gone over before about our live stream video. Making sure uh that when you are speaking that you have a microphone. remind me to help you help me help you. Um, when we're in small group, we'll turn them off obviously for caucuses if needed. We'll do

002that and same for lunch and break. Um, I I I can't I don't know if I sent this agenda. I made some minor tweaks based on adjustment to the presentation this morning that we're going to have it starting at 8:30 from precision. Um so you can see we're going to go back to workload. Um after the presentation HR and finance will do an update. We're going to start talking about the insurance um options for next year or plans I should say and hopefully go through the evaluation and consensus process around that. We've got to uh we need to land that so we can get it to the board for approval. Same for pay for performance. Um, and then hopefully we're going to jump into some compensation conversations uh and talk about options for that as

003well. So before we do that, I just want to go over your feedback from uh our last meeting. Uh if you may recall that we did rose roses, buds and thorns and um so thorns are things obviously you want to try to that might have been challenging. Um, so I'm gonna let you all just read those to yourself for a minute. So, what I'm going to ask you all to do is when you take a look, some of these things keep coming up, right? Distractions, um, you know, technology being a distraction, it's hard to know sometimes for me if I'm seeing the back of a laptop or a phone or whatever it may be because, right, you've got things to look at, documents that are shared in the Google Drive. Um, but if you are

004working on something else, that that would be a a different violation of a norm that this group set. So, I'm just going to ask you to think about it for yourself. if this is you to just be mindful of it for today. And then if as a neighbor or a colleague that if you notice somebody is doing something else that is not related to items in the shared drive that you just give them a little nudge and say remember our norm around staying focused. Okay. Um I'm going to talk about the second bullet in just a minute. Um we talk about workload. Yeah. financial constraints. This this is this is real and I just I'm doing work with other districts uh not a similar work and very different work. Every single district I'm talking to

005is in the same boat. Everybody's declining in enrollment. >> So sorry. >> Everybody is struggling with um budget reductions, if you will. Uh sometimes we say misery loves company, but this is not a company any of us want to to be in, I don't think. And you all I think Vanessa shared, you know, the headlines uh from across the state about what's happening. So I think uh we're also going to talk about that as we circle back to the workload issue. It is real. We're just going to acknowledge it and then we're going to do our best to work within the known parameters of of what we can. So, um I think the issue is, you know, when it happens, like it's okay to be frustrated about it and acknowledge it, but then say, how

006do we how do we try to work work around this within the constraints that we have? Um, so again, I'm just going to remind you to think to yourself about are any of these thorns that were noticed from our last meeting a reflection on you? And we're not picking on you. just asking you to be mindful of it as we move forward. Buds are opportunities, things that we might see uh areas that you know we've noticed some growth or some opportunity in. Um so I'm going to let give you just a minute to read through this and again this is just a synthesis of uh some of the feedback. So let you read All right. So, as we look at these areas for opportunity and things that we see some momentum or growth happening, I

007think there's some good stuff. Um, looking through things through our standards. Um, and we're going to talk about those. We haven't jumped into that piece of IBN just yet. Um, I think you're going to get some more information today. I know you've been given a lot of financial information and and other pieces as well, but I think there are some other uh conversations that Vanessa will share with us, I think, around compression and uh cost and things of that nature today. Um, and I like this look on, you know, looking forward to uh solutions that that we might be able to tackle hopefully today. Uh, and again, I want you to know it's also happening. I'm doing some work with another district about compression. So, it's it is uh I don't again misery loves company,

008but not when it's impacting you uh personally on that compression piece. So, I can appreciate the work that Vanessa's done. I was trying to pick her brain last time uh around what what she's been doing to try to address that. I know you guys have done a lot of work and I commend you on that because I think it is a it is an issue across many districts and you really are taking a good hard look at it. So, I think and I think we'll continue to do that today. Whoops, wrong way. And then roses, these are things that are looking good. So, I'll give you a second to read through these. All right. Also some positives that came out of our meeting last time. So I'm happy to see that. I especially like people

009that identified, you know, they were able to recognize in themselves uh what they may should or should not have done or how they tried to check themselves in in a particular way. So less arguing. It's this work is hard pe. It's very very natural to get positional and to feel defensive, right? It happens. But I think the more we try to pay attention and listen and to find out what's underneath that in any conversation whether it be an IBN or relationship or whatever it may be tends to help move that forward like what what is the why why is this happening? Um and again I also think the transparency around the financial uh information at the bottom I think that is really great that your district is so transparent about um sharing all of that

010with you all. So what I'm going to ask you to do right now is I want you to think to yourself what is given what you saw or thinking about our last meeting or even a meeting before that what is one thing that you're going to focus on today to try to be more solutionoriented or continue to do something that is working well. What what's your role in that? And then what's one thing you want to um try to strengthen? Maybe you've struggled with it in the past and what might you be able to do today. So what area you're going to try to strengthen for today and what area you're going to try to continue that you've been doing well. So I want you to think to yourself for a minute about that. And

011then I would like you to turn to your shoulder partner, whoever's closest to you, and share what you're going to do, what you're going to continue to do that you've been doing well, and one area you're going to try to work towards being better about. So, go ahead and turn to your neighbor and have that conversation. Is Alex did anybody get noticed? Is it Alex that sits on the end? >> She's out. >> Sorry. All right. I am uh just looking for a couple of people to share either what you are going to work on or what your partner shared that they're going to uh work on. So, >> anyone care to go first? >> You can either throw your partner under the bus or you throw yourself under. >> Thank you, Yolanda. >> I

012think mine's pretty easy. >> It's not a bottom. >> It worked now. Um for for my group um we kind of feel the same way on something to grow on is or the struggle is distractions because if we get a text message from work or something like we want to grab our phones and we want to answer those. So that's something that we will continue to work on. >> Thank you. It's it's real, right? stuff is happening that you may or may not need to respond to. Um, so I appreciate that. And anytime that happens, right, I just got to say to the group, I need to step out for a second, take this call. I get it. Um, so thank you for sharing. Anyone else? Ivon, thank you. >> I was just gushing up

013uh Katie on all of the great information that we receive about benefits, um, finance, staffing. Um, and I told her I said he was rich in information and we didn't have enough time to work on options except for the ones on workload. But I think the information that we received last time is going to be really helpful this meeting. >> Yeah, it's there. You have a lot of data in there. Um even I was like oh my god like this is and I'm trying to look at it too but also you know it is helpful in informing and helping you all either create an option or say how do we think about this through this particular lens. So thank you >> others willing to share. >> Looking for one more >> Eve. Thank you. Um

014my my partner and I both talked about uh especially towards the end of the day just making sure that our body language is um positive and engaged and same with our facial expressions making sure that that stays positive and engaged and just taking a moment if we have to to reset. Um so that was the things that we're going to really focus on today. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, it gets really hard after lunch um and after heavy conversations, right? And that's when we can get tired and frustrated and those things come up. So, I appreciate you saying that out loud because it's real. It's not right. I I know uh what is hungry, angry, lonely, tired, it's halt, right? If you got one of those things going on, you kind of have to like

015check yourself and say, "Okay, what's happening here?" Biggest thing for me is just take a deep breath. Not a deep sigh because that gets perceived a lot different, but a deep breath if you're feeling something happening, things tightening up here. Just take a deep breath before you respond. And that sometimes can help. So, I appreciate everybody sharing that. Um, what I want you to do is, you know, I I keep coming back to the norms because I need us to ground ourselves in that, especially based on feedback that we saw. So, um, I will read the first one and then I'm going to look for volunteers to read some of the others. So, the first norm that we developed and came to consensus on in as a group was to be uh stay focused and

016on task. Anyone want to read the next one? not the not the subp parts but just the overall thanks Justin >> be fully present and actively listening and we talked about putting your tech away tracking the speaker when appropriate obviously it's okay to have the tech if you need to reference something just like we talked about with Yolanda and neighbor uh step out if needed and then try to really listen to understand um next one please >> demonstrate respect and posit intent. >> Thank you. Next one. >> Ensure all voices are heard. >> Thank you. We've talked about this one a little bit. Um really want to hear from everybody. So if you see your name on the stack a lot, maybe take a breath and then let's see if we can engage someone else

017in the conversation as well. Next one, please. >> Bless you. >> Thank you. engage thoughtfully and with purpose. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah, make sure you're thinking about what we're talking about and engage in that um thoughtfully as well. And then lastly, >> working for Dr. >> Yeah, if I remember it was hug the cactus. Is that the the metaphor that we had? So yeah, it's easy to talk about emotion, talk about how we feel, but we really need to also look at some of the facts that we have in order to address some of the issues that we're working around. You guys have done a really um good job with that. The next thing we need to do is make sure that we're grounding all of our decisions, whether we're identifying options or

018interest um around the governing board guiding principles. They were the exact same ones that you had last year. So making sure that when we're thinking about options that we're putting on the table that they're aligned with student outcome focused governance goals, sustainable salary for staff, sustainable health care benefits, exploring revenue generation options and adhering to uh budgetary recommendations. So I want you to think about that lens as well in addition to the interest when we identify it for a particular issue. And then hi Alex, how are you? >> Good. How are you guys? Good. I'm going to have them do a team building activity and then I'll turn it over to you all. >> They love team building, by the way. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm going to ask you all, we're going to

019do a silly team building because, you know, I love to do that. Um, just to kind of help break the ice and get everybody moving. I do want to say if if you are uh uncomfortable, physically not comfortable with what I'm going to have you all do, it's okay. What you're going to do is sit out and observe and possibly assist. Okay? So, I want everybody to come together in the middle here. >> I might make you all do it soon. So, >> so let's create one big circle within this uh U shape, if you will. All right. Now, here's the part where uh things can get a little squirly. Close your circle in. I want you to hold hands. >> All right. So, now >> All right. So, you can drop hands for a

020second. I just wanted to get the circle closed. So now what we're going to do, we might have to scooch in. You are going to grab, not grab, but get hold two different hands of people in this circle. >> And then >> we're going to undo the circle without letting go of the hands or the arms. Okay? So for example, and you might have to come in a little bit closer here. So, if I'm participating, I might grab here and I might grab over here. >> Sounds like adult twister. >> That's exactly what's happening. I'm not gonna have you bending over and twisting and stuff like that. You're going to be standing. So, two different hands, please. >> Okay. All right. Now, those of you that are not participating, you have to come in and

021help. So, your job now is to undo this mess and get to a circle where you're holding hands, but you cannot break >> the hands. >> All right. >> There you go. >> James, if you can assist and Ariel, if you can give him some direction. Oh, I like how the tallest guy is stuck in the middle. >> It gives some good perspective. >> Yeah, he can see where to go. >> I think if you go underneath, >> there you go. >> No, no cheating. >> So, >> don't let go. It won't work if you're holding hands with someone you are standing right next to. >> Good job, Ivon. >> James, can you give them some feedback and help them see where you might see something? Come on over. Take a look. >> I would

022have to They would have to go in. >> You go in >> under and there you go. So, we're kind of >> wait. Can you come under here? >> Oh, one more. >> Yeah, there we go. >> Okay. I think I need to turn mine off. >> Yeah, I think. >> And then do you guys need uh do you need our presentation or >> Oh, perfect. All right. >> Can I just make a statement here real quick? >> Hi, good morning. Uh I am not from precision so I will put the PowerPoint up in just a moment but uh what I wanted to do is kind of give you context for this conversation. Um we offer a lot of optional products for our employees uh in the way of investment opportunities like 40 457s and

023different ways that people can get pre-tax monies put aside for investment. This is sort of an outgrowth of that where you're able to when you retire have the money that you would get from your separation, you know, how you get may qualify for that chunk of money uh to be able to be invested in different ways. So, uh it it's a benefit to the district uh and it's also a benefit to the employee. So, we have guests from Precision that are here to help support and uh then preview the option that we're going to hopefully pursue today. And Linda's here, too. If you haven't met Linda, Linda Barrett is our payroll guru. Uh and so, if you haven't seen her in person, the myth, the legend. >> All right. Awesome. >> Perfect. Sounds good. And

024should I just tell you um when to go to the next slide or do you have a quick Perfect. >> All right. Well, we'll just wait for that to go up. But uh just before we get started, my name is M. McCarti. This is Ben Nelson. Um we're with Precision Retirement Group. What we're really going to be talking at um kind of the core of today is our prime choice plan. At really what that is is we're going to talk about what happens to sick and vacation payouts at retirement when it goes through our plan. What are the advantages for the employee? What are some of the advantages for the employer? And then what are some um things you need to look out for and be aware of when money gets paid out this way?

025Obviously, I love our product. I can talk about it all day, but I think being able to present, all right, what are some of the things that you need to watch out for as well is really important. Um, when we talk about making decisions, especially with anything on financial products, the first thing you need to do is understand it. The second thing you need to do is then decide if you actually want to do it or not. If you're going if you're deciding if you want to do something or not before you actually have the education, usually those are people you shouldn't be talking to about your finances. Um, so we'll go right into this first slide. All right, so a little background on who Precision Retirement Group is. Um, we're a nationally recognized benefit

026consulting company. Um, we've been doing our Prime Choice Plan since 2002. I won't lie to you, that predates my time with the company by a little bit. Um, but we've been here in Arizona for about 20 years doing this plan. Um, we'll talk about some of our other clients as well. Um, and then the prime choice plan's been implemented in about 15 different states. Um, you know, Arizona is a really big market of ours, especially for school districts. Um, Wisconsin's another one. We do more city county business there. And then Utah's another really large um, state for us, and we do mainly school district there as well. >> Perfect. All right. So, let's talk about the prime choice plan. I see the bottom's cut off a little bit there, but that's that's fine. So really

027at the core of what it does is it takes those sick and vacation payouts. We're going to use the example of $10,000 um kind of throughout this whole way. I'm not very good with math. So when we start talking percentages, it makes it a lot easier for me. But we're going to be talking about a $10,000 payout and what that looks like for someone if they go through our plan. So that $10,000 payout, it gets converted into an employer contribution. So somebody, they worked 30 years with the district, they worked 20 years with the district, they say, "I finally want to retire." they get that $10,000 payout when it goes through our plan instead of getting paid out through payroll and you pay taxes on federal, state, and FICA and Medicare. It would get converted

028into an employer contribution either into a special pay 403b or 401A. Really, that's just a fancy way of saying a tax deferred retirement account. Or it would get converted into a tax-free medical trust. We call it the prime plan. What this is is it's a tax-free payout that can be used to pay for medical expenses. We're going to go into what some of those costs are and what a retirees looking at for medical when they retire. No surprise here, it's a lot of money. When people look at COBRA, when you look at ASRS and you see what your premium is, it's very expensive. Having tax-free money is really great to pay that. You know, the best type of money um is taxfree money. you can get as much tax deferred, but why would you want

029tax deferred money if you can have tax-free money? And we'll talk about that. So, um, when you implement the prime choice plan, it also saves the employee and the employer 7.65% on all payouts. So, regardless of what option it goes, those payouts are going to save um the employee at least 7.65%. Because they don't have to pay the FICA and Medicare. When you run a payout through payroll, that's when you're going to pay those FICA and Medicare costs. Also, the benefit for the employer is that they're going to also save that 7.65% because there's not going to be any FICA and Medicare costs. Really important to note this last uh last slide here. I wish it wasn't cut off, but um we hi we highlight it, we underline it because this is really important to

030know. So, if a um if a client or if an a retiree goes through this plan, the district is going to set in a sense um an age limit and a payout restriction. So, generally most places that we deal with, it's going to be $5,000 and you have to be 55 in the year that you separate or older. So, if you meet both those requirements, a payout through payroll is no longer an option. It has to go through this process. Um, we'll talk about why that you want it to go through that process instead of getting paid out through payroll. We'll break down the taxes here in a few slides, but that's a really important thing to know is that if you meet both criteria um to be paid out this way, it's mandatory to

031participate. There's no option to take cash. And we'll talk about why that is on this next slide. >> That is always been the case, but this something new. >> Uh, so we'll um Yes. So this is not something new. Um, so there's something called constructive receipt. So, what constructive receipt is is it is um an IRS regulation, not a PRG rule. Um you know, that's it's a constructive receipt rule. We'll talk about why you can't offer somebody cash. So, if you offer someone ca a cash payout, you can't say, okay, you now have the choice to take it in cash, defer it as taxes into a 403b, or take go into the health reimbursement account. You can give them the tax deferral options, but the second the IRS says, "Hey, Mac, you were able to

032receive this money in cash," they count it as taxable income. I can't say, "Hey, I really don't want that payout." If it's an option to receive it in cash, even if I don't want it, it becomes a taxable distribution. There's big fines, big IRS no- nos. If you dec if you're an employer and you start doing that, there's some been some cities and counties who have really large fines from the IRS. So, you don't want to fall into that. Um, if you do, uh, if you are someone who goes into these plans, um, and you, you know, you get paid out through payroll, the reason they put that age restriction in is so if you don't meet both those criteria, let's say the, um, payout is 5,55 or at least 5,000 age 55. If you're

033only have $4,000, then you're just going to get paid out through payroll. So, it's really easy to make that determination. So, if you meet the criteria, you go through the plan. If you don't meet both criteria, you just get paid out through payroll. Does that kind of make sense? >> So, I'm sorry. That explanation was was was great, but is the cash payout no longer a choice and why? >> So, most districts that we work with set like a threshold like Max said. So, it's not that. So, let's say someone goes through the Prime Choice plan. They're 56 years old. They have $7,000 or $10,000 like we'll use for an example. You can still get a payout. Why? Because you're 55 and separated from service. So, you're still able to get a payout. >> So,

034if I'm not 55, the payout, cash payout is no longer a choice. >> Yeah. So, if it if you're not if you're not of the threshold of 50, let's say 55 and $5,000, you won't even go through this process. You'll just get paid out through payroll. So you still So yes, you still get a payout. >> Yeah. >> It's just so this in a sense the district will set a definition of who has to go through this process. >> Everyone gets a payout no matter what. So so there's not going to be like you put this in it's like no longer people who are 53 get a payout. Okay? That's just wrong. Okay. >> So they will still get a payout, but it's just going to be if you meet both criteria that the district

035set that you have it's required to go through this process. So you could have someone who's 75 years old. Let's say they've worked at the district but they use all their they use their sick time every single year. they're only getting paid out 500 bucks. Well, they don't meet that $5,000 threshold. So, even though they meet the age requirement, they don't meet the um amount. So, they just get paid out through payroll, >> retire next year, and I'm going to be 53 and I have a lot of sick time. So, that's why I'm asking these questions. >> Yeah. So, >> I'm I'm not interested in a defer plan or I want the payout. >> Yeah. I'll follow up with >> So, you would just get paid out. So, if you're not if you don't So,

036you're going to be 53, you wouldn't be 55. Let's say they set the limit at 55. You wouldn't you wouldn't get uh have to go through the process. You get paid out through uh payroll and you'd pay, as we're going to go through this right now, you'd pay federal, state, and FICA and Medicare taxes. >> So, with this plan, there would be certain parameters in place, and there's no opting in or opting out of this plan. this is the plan and if you meet the parameters you're going this way and if you don't meet the parameters it's going this way. Is that right? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And we'll and we'll talk we'll talk about why because a big question we get is what about that person who just wants their money now. Similar

037it's like we'll talk about why we can still do that and why it's going to look a little bit different and there's going to be a tax benefit for that person who meets the plan qualifications. Um and we'll just go through that here in a second where that's a few slides later. You'll see the goal is to save the employee money. I'm telling you there's a way to save the employee employer money. And so we'll get into Mac will go ahead with if your payout goes through payroll and what the >> district set the perimeter or your company. >> So great question. So all of the um plan documents are customizable. It's going to be all done by the district. I don't I don't want any any place in uh what's going on in your

038district. We're in a sense just the uh the vendor for this. So we have a bunch of different school districts. So Deer Valley, for example, their age limit is 50 years old and $5,000 or more. Um Tucson is 55. Tucson is 55 and at least a $3,000 payout. So let's go into the taxes. Let's talk about it a little bit because a lot of people will say, "Oh my goodness, I need I need this money." Let's talk about what a a payout looks like. So we're going to use that same 10,000. So, when you get paid out through payroll, um there's no tax deferral advantage. Most people when they're retiring, that's when they're making the most money that they've made in their career. Usually, you've gone through promotions. Um you know, you're making generally the

039most amount of money you've made. When you get a payout through payroll, that uh amount, whatever it is, becomes taxable in the year that you take it. You're going to pay the federal, you're going to pay the state, you're going to pay the FICA, and Medicare. A a thing that a lot of people don't think about is how am I going to pay for health insurance? Um so estimated months it would cover for health insurance is about 12 months or so if you had 10 a $10,000 payout after all the taxes get p taken out. If you're going to go on to the cheapest ASRS plan, just the premium alone is going to pay about 12 months or so. Um obviously the other thing too, you're going to pay that 7.65% um in Medicare uh

040Medicare and FICA taxes as well. Want to go to the next slide? So let's talk about the prime plan a little bit. So the prime plan is going to be the medical trust. So this is going to be um we do what's called an exit interview. So an exit interview is how we make the determination between these two different options. So with this being an employer contribution, it becomes an employer plan. We have an exit interview with every retiree. Takes about 10 to 15 minutes. It's a phone call. This is where we uh determine if they need the money to go into the prime plan or into the 403b. Um it's an it's an employer plan. So the employer has to make the determination. The reason we like to talk to the uh employees and

041we make it mandatory for everybody to talk is so they can say what their situation is. The people that we talk to, the retirees that we talk to on these calls, 99% of the time coming into these, they know exactly what they want to do with that money. So, you're not you rarely run into someone who says, "Gosh, I don't know if I want this money to help pay for my health insurance or if I just want to uh put it into my tax deferred account." Most people will know, hey, I'm looking at $1,000 a month for health insurance. I have a uh a $12,000 payout. I'm looking at the prime plan. I could pay it for 12 months. I'm going to have to come up with the money after after that. But most people

042know what they want to do. Some people are like, I don't want the my money locked up in a medical account. They know that they want to go into the 403b. So there's a bunch there. So when we do these exit interviews, that's how we make these determinations because at the end of the day, it's an employer plan. So the employer has to make the determination, but obviously we take the uh input of the employee and you're like, "Okay, do you ever change the determination of if somebody really wants it in the 403b, do you put it in the health account?" >> No. Because the employee knows their situation better than we do. >> Yeah. In in the time that uh Precision Retirement has been around, there has been no exit interview that has gone

043the other way. It's based off of your answers. You know your situation the best. So, I'm not here, Max's not here to make a decision for you. We base it off of your answers. Hey, if you want to go out and buy, put a down payment on an RV, car, whatever it is in retirement, I'm not going to tell you different. You know your situation. If you think you got health care costs covered, that's your situation. >> Yep. And so, we'll take a quick look at it. Obviously, the same $10,000 payout. It's pretty straightforward. It's completely taxfree. There's not going to be any uh federal, state, FICA, Medicare taxes. Whatever you're getting paid out, you get to use the full amount. I will say this, when we implement this plan into districts, usually the first

044year, most people are like, I do not want my money in a medical account. It probably goes what 10 to 20% in a medical, 80 to 90% in the special pay. As people actually understand the advantage of using tax-free money to pay for their health insurance, it starts to switch. In districts like Chandler, where we've had our plan in for over 20 years, they're probably 85% medical, 15% special pay. Now, you do get a lot of people who are going on to tryare maybe um they're going on to their spouse's plan. You know, they're really maybe not worried about health care costs. That's what the great part about having the special pay plan is is that you can give them an option to in a sense have access to that money right away and still

045be able to save the taxes. Um so just quick comparison here. So there's about an extra 7 months or so um by paying out the money and going through the prime plan that you can pay for your insurance. So it's about 19.6 compared to the 12.2 um when you kind of look at the taxes afterwards. Real quick, Mac, do you remember um because we presented at ASPA in the winter, do you remember how much it costs if you retired from at 55 and you got this the the single person plan through ASRS, how much money did it take to get to 65 to get to Medicare >> just for premium alone? So, it's this year it's about $510. That's after you get a subsidy. So, quick math, 5* 12 is 6,000. You got 10 years

046you need to go. That's $60,000 just in premium. If you're plan on retiring at 55, staying on ASRS and getting all the way to Medicare, it's just $60 just to have your plan. That's not even considering if you have to pay actually have real medical expenses. That's just in premium alone. There are medical expenses. That's generally the thing is most people, you know, you haven't maybe used your plan a lot, but going into retirement as you get older, you're going to have medical expenses. >> It will be the most costly thing you have in retirement. Point blank. Fidelity comes out with an article. You can look it up. Every single year talks about retirement, the health care costs in retirement. And they estimate this is from 65 and on. So Medicare because Medicare has a

047premium. This year it's 20290 a month. Um then if you get a supplement or you go through the ASRS plan, those have premiums, but they estimate that you need over $60,000 um once you hit Medicare for health care costs in retirement. So I can't we can't stress enough. I mean, the health care costs will be there. It's not a attractive thing. Like Max said, usually in the first couple years, not a lot of people go that route for the for the health reimbur. But as it time goes on, people realize like this money's coming out of your out of your pension check every month. Like you can get reimbursed for that. You're going to have to pay for health care costs. So that's why this this plan is uh implemented and such a benefit for

048employees. But Mac will go over the the tax deferred side now. All right. So, >> I'd just like to add that it's great because it is a 401k. The difference is that for us is a pension and whether we put enough into contributions or not, the pension is until we die and the 401k you just suspend it and you can still have 20 or 15 years of of life. Again, it's it's a great choice, but that's the difference between a 401k and our pension. Sorry, I did we mention a for I the 401k. >> No, no, just he he me he mentioned Fidelity and so I'm like well that >> Oh, no. Fidelity is just a financial company. >> Yeah, they just produce an article every year and do the research on Yeah. Yeah. We're

049not talking about 401ks. They just >> they just do like an estimated um healthcare cost research every year and they just it's about $60,000 that you'll end up paying from 65 and on. Um so going to special pay here. So let's talk a little bit. So, this would be for the person, you know, we go through the exit interview, we talk to them, maybe they have Triricare, you know, maybe they're just really not worried about medical costs. They have a lot um of money saved up for that or they're looking to pay off some debt. They need access to this money. Um maybe like Ben said, you know, they're going to go on a nice vacation, put a down payment on RV. So, they would go into the special pay um 401A, 403b deferred plan.

050What this is is the money goes into the account. It's going to be tax deferred. you're not going to pay taxes on it until you decide it's time to use it. Um, what that means is when you take it out, you're going to pay federal and state taxes, but you won't pay the Social Security and Medicare taxes on that. So, that 7.65% you're not going to have to owe. Now, the question is, why do we set the age limit at 55? Does anybody know the age that you can take from a 403b without penalty? It is 55. So, it's usually 59 and a half. So, it's usually 59 and a half unless you're retiring or separating from your employer. So, if it's uh if you retire or separate from your employer, it goes from 59

051a half to 55. So, that same person who says, you know, I'm just looking for a payout. I just want my money. We say, all right, awesome. The 403b or 401A, depending what your district puts in, is going to be the best bet for you. That way, you can still save the 7.65% 65%. You don't have to pay the Social Security and Medicare tax, but you can still get that payout right away. Is it going to take longer than payroll? Yes, it's going to take a little bit longer than payroll. The reason is is that you're going to have to fill out a distribution form to our third party administrator. Um, your account has to be funded. The district has to pay your money or send your money over to our third party administrator. It's

052going to take maybe, let's say, two or three extra weeks, but you're saving an additional 7.65%. 65%. I have yet to run into a retiree if they're getting a $10,000 payout who doesn't want another 750 bucks in their check. Most people are willing to wait 3 weeks to get that extra amount of money. Um, will it count as taxable income in the year that it's taken? Of course. Um, there's no way around those federal and state taxes. It will count as taxable income, but they will get that immediate 7.65%. So, when we do these exit interviews, Ben, if someone expresses that they want the money taken out right away, what do we usually tell them? Well, we tell them how quick of a process it is, but we also once the exit interview is determined,

053we send them and they uh complete their account setup paperwork all via an an enrollment platform. So, it takes five minutes. We send them the distribution election form as well as an a form. So, if you want it to directly go to your bank account, you will have the forms. You'll be able to fill those out before the district funds the account. Alon benefits or third party administrator. Um, just to kind of tell you how this goes is the funds go from the district to Paleon Benefits. They're they're kind of like the the account holder. We've worked with them for 20 years. Uh, we have a great relationship with them. They're not a huge company, which means when you call in, you're going to talk to somebody on the phone. You're going to speak to

054a human being. They're on the East Coast. Just keep that in mind. But they will make sure that they process the funds. We are not here to hold your funds like a Fidelity, like a um any of these other companies. We make sure we have very very close relationship with Pelon that if you want your funds, we want to get you paid out. We don't want to hold there. There's no benefit for us holding the funds. >> Yeah. And so like Ben said, the thing that we tell people is you can submit that uh that distribution form beforehand because you know, some people are really just like, I just want my money. I just want to be done with this. Hey, no problem. Generally, when we explain the 7.65% 65% savings. Most people are pretty

055happy about that. They can fill out that distribution beforehand. Our thirdparty administrator will keep it on record. That way, it starts getting their distribution going the second their account is funded compared to, you know, maybe if they submit it a little bit later on. >> What is the cost to the district or the employee as it may be? >> Great question. Um, so the cost to the district is nothing because uh Kraton is a part of the SAVE consortium. We're sponsored through Chandler Unified School District. So, generally there's a thousand dollar document fee for the school district that is waved because uh you guys are part of the save consortium and since Chandler Unifi's our sponsor, there is no cost for the district to implement our plan. >> What benefit is this to the district?

056>> Yeah. So, >> so the district the district doesn't have to pay the 7.65% on the employer side. So, however much you got, however much the district pays out every year, um, again, I'm going to use an easier number, but a million bucks is going to be 7 thou or 76,000. Uh, if you look at that 7.65%. >> Oh, the employee, the cost of the employee. >> Is there a cost to the employee? >> Yeah, great question. So, on the special pay side, there are no fees. Um, so the special pay side, there's no fees to the employee. Um, so you know, their money can sit in that account as long as they want. There's not going to be any fees. We do a fixed interest rate on both accounts of 3.25%. So, they're going

057to get that uh 3.25% just by their money sitting there. That's going to be on the special pay side. The medical side has two different fees. One is going to be a $5.50 monthly um account fee. The other is going to be a $4 claim reimbursement fee. How to say that in standard English? When you submit a claim that says, "Hey, I had my health insurance. I had a crown. Um, I had a doctor's visit." When you submit that claim, that one form, not each claim, is going to be $4. So, what we'll have people do is they'll save up six months of claims and submit it. That way, they only have to pay the $4 fee once. Um, let's say you submitted 10 different claims, it's going to be $4 time 10. So those

058are going to be the fees for the participant is $5.50 on the monthly administrative fee. So for the actual account and then every time they submit for reimbursement it's $4 and that's going to be just for the medical account. The special pay plan has no fees. >> I'm just asking the right question. I have a um I have a different question which is if my understanding is we already offer an HSA right a health savings account plan I think >> oh okay >> so little and the great question though because I do want to get into the difference of HSA because we say H which isn't heard as much as HSA that's actually a good segue >> so so is this like I'm worried about redundancy I guess right >> so this is going to

059be after retirement so an HA big difference between an HRA and an HSA. An HRA cannot be employee funded. It can only be employer funded. So an HA, the other really nice thing about it is you can pay post tax health insurance premiums with this. So when someone finishes up on COBRA and they're now going to ASRS, they're going to bridge it to getting on to Medicare, they can use this money to pay for their health insurance premium. You cannot use an HSA to pay post tax health insurance premiums. You can use it to pay COBRA. You can use it to pay Medicare, but if you're under 65 and you're going to be going on to ASRS, you can't use HSA money to pay that specific health insurance premium. That's another huge advantage of using

060an HRA over an HSA. The other big advantage is there's no limits on the HRA. So, an HSA, I think it was $4,300. My wife and I were trying to put as much as we could into it last year, um, and it was about $4,300. An HRA has no limit of, uh, on funds that you can put into it. Um, one thing I do want to touch on with the special pay plan because a lot of people will also ask this question. I'm working with a financial advisor. I I just want them to deal with my money. With our special pay accounts, um, the money goes into a 403b. It's just called either a transfer or a rollover. You're able to move that money without any fees or penalties into your 403b. So, the initial

061landing spot is going to be the Palon Benefits um 403b. You can fill out the same. It's on it's on the bottom half of the distribution form. It's just a rollover form that says um I want my money to go to my Fidelity 403b, my equitable 403b, whoever your um carrier that you're using is, and there's no fees on our side. So, because that's a lot of things people will say is, okay, I already have a 403b. A lot of people don't want a bunch of different retirement accounts sitting around. So, they usually just will consolidate it through a rollover um or a transfer. And so, that's that's a really nice thing about our product as well is there's no fees or anything if you want to roll that money over to an existing account.

062>> Um, another question. And is it possible for someone to split some of their payout into medical and some into the 43b? >> Great question. Uh, generally no. And I would say we have about 300 different entities across the country. We only have one that splits it. But what the employer has to do is they have to set a percentage in their plan document. That way you're not doing different things for employees. So you would have to say everybody gets 80% into special pay and then the other 20% will go into HR. So generally no, you can't split it. um unless the district sets an amount, but I would say 99% of our entities don't do that because you don't want someone who really needs it for medical and now they're getting all into special

063pay or you maybe have someone on TriRiCare is like why do I even have to put 20% into into this medical account? I don't want that. So, generally, no. >> Okay. And then last question I think for me, um how does your company and then also the third party vendor make money? >> Great question. So, we make an assets under management fee of 1% on all the money that sits in these accounts. It's not actively taken out of any of these accounts. We're paid by our investment provider. So, all of the money sits in the um it's a group fixed annuity is how it's uh is how the money is invested. We make 1% of all the money that sits in this account. It's not taken actively out of the account. We're just paid by

064our investment provider. Our thirdparty administrator makes money based off of the fees, the $5.50 50 cents and the $4 fee. We have an arrangement. The reason the special pay plan has no um fees on it is because we pay that to our third party administrator >> first and then >> so it sounds like I just want to clarify and make sure that I'm understanding correctly. If the district or maybe they already have, I don't know, but if the district does go with this plan, as a retiree that would be over 65 eligible for Medicare and my ASRS, I wouldn't have a choice other than do I want my payout to go into the um Medicare, Med >> medical one or the special pay. That would be the only choice that I have. >> Correct. Yeah.

065>> Okay. >> Yeah. But if you wanted the payout, it would go tax deferred and then you can do that claim reimburse or the the distribution for it. >> If you're 55 and older and your money goes into the special pay plan, there is no time limit that it has to sit there. The day the account is funded, you can take the money out and there's no penalty. You will pay state and federal taxes. Of course, we're all very familiar with that. But there is no 10% penalty for taking the money out early. You can do it right away and you're still going to save that 7.65%. 55. >> When is this plan decided? Joel, >> so this uh came to triad as an option for uh benefit and so we're bringing it to meet

066and confirm to have a conversation about um the next steps in our process. Okay. I have a slightly different question. Why would a district choose not to use your services? >> Let me answer this. I I got this one. Change. In all honesty, change. I mean, if you do the numbers and if you sit down and look at it and you and and my recommendation is the 55 threshold, why wouldn't you want more money? you will get the m money couple weeks later, but it's changed. People don't, in all honesty, people don't like change. So, they'll they'll look at it and be like, I don't I don't want to do this. I want my I I want this payout. But if you're over 55 and you have the opport and you want the payout, why

067wouldn't you want to save money? And a medical, you can do that as well. Um, even more money. So, that's our biggest thing. Um and also for us it's talking to the talking to the right people. Um you know getting in front of the right people and presenting this because I mean if you sit down and do the numbers it it makes sense but you know some people just don't they want to they want to keep it the way it is. >> So there's no financial aspect or things that like a district would say you know what this isn't the right fit for our district. >> Maybe maybe not not enough savings. >> Yeah. Maybe, you know, maybe you're dealing with a district who has one or two retirees a year. And I mean, you

068you talk if there's, let's say, there's two $10,000 payouts, it's 20 grand. Do you really want to change all your processes over a $1,500 savings? That could be an financial aspect. Usually, these districts that have I mean, we have some of the larger school districts. We have Poria, Deer Valley, Chandler Unified, Scottsdale, Tucson. I mean, they're paying out a few million dollars a year. There's some pretty substantial savings there. But really on the employee side, that's where the benefit is. Having an option for tax-free medical, having an option to just at least at the minimum get an extra 7.65% your payout. That's great. The other reason too, I will say a big issue that a lot of these school districts will run into with special pay plans, paying out the money this way, there's been

069a little bit of a shift in our industry. So, um, Nationwide used to do plans like this, but if you were a school district who wasn't sending at least $5 million a year, instead of getting an actual person, you would just get a phone number to a customer service line. So, if you needed someone to make a determination or one of your employees needed help, they would get a customer service line. You would get routed to a call center. Obviously, we're a little bit of a smaller company doing this, so you're actually going to talk to someone in person, which is going to be myself or Ben. You mentioned a few school districts that are used. I was wondering, Linda, was it used in your previous district or maybe I don't know if Vanessa is

070still in here. Um, if any of our current employees have or you have too, Alexis, yeah, if you could speak to that. >> It was not. >> We're not in No, we're not in Madison. >> It is in PV. That's question. It is not in Madison, >> but it was discussed. So, >> yeah. And this is um just so you understand this is a part of the process that the district's going through right now to um look for uh savings in all areas. It's an efficiencies project. Um one of the other things that we just recently did was move our AP processes to uh Commerce Bank which allows us to um make those uh electronic payments versus the printed out paper checks. It saves us uh with the time and effort of it, but we

071also get a revenue share back from Commerce uh bank. It's a it's like a $30,000 a year uh revenue share. So again, this is another um part of that process to look for any type of savings in all of our operational processes. >> So do you all like approach districts to reach out or did someone in triad bring it up? I'm just wondering how this came to be. >> We we approach districts but gen word of mouth. Yeah, generally honestly sorry if if every district had a meeting with people like us when they said hey I can save you money your calendar their calendars would be booked from 9 to5 um we have a pretty good reputation um around I will say so Paradise Valley just to give some clarity they they do have a

072special pay plan in there right now they are going to use us as the vendor next year because of the service issue they've ran into an issue to where they are no longer getting service from their investment provider Okay. Want me to tell you why? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, also because their special pay plan was limited, um, they also didn't do the 55 and they did a 50 which meant that people couldn't take their money out. There was no option in PV special pay plan for people to take their money immediately. Um, it was put it in the investment savings uh, plan and that was it. And then if you did need those dollars for some reason, uh there was a additional penalties on taking your money out which over uh costed the savings

073of the 7 whatever it is. Y >> yeah, there was a another additional 10% uh penalty fee to pull your money out. So I can see why PV would change their special pay plan process. And I'm not sure if Alexis you feel comfortable because I know you've directly worked with us um at P with precision. So I'm not sure if you want to speak to that or not, but we are in Scottsdale. >> Yeah. I mean I just say that we did that. I think the thing you talk about what I'm hearing is very similar, right? Folks that may not be 55 but are you going to take my money? That's not it. It's really the other and I to Vanessa's point it is a way to capture some dollars for the district and for

074me so I can speak to both sides of this because I work with the district. I'm also doing this. So >> I can tell you my general medical I'm on the cheapest state retirement plan the the I can't think what they call it. That's different, but it's, you know, really high deductible. Um, it's like 600 bucks a month and I get the 15 reimbursement state of service. So, it's 500 a month, but that's $500, right? When I when I retired, my income went down and my outcome went up because I now had to pay that. So, it is to me it was a huge benefit and I'm I'm not 55, but I'm not 65 either. And so I've got a couple years before I get to Medicare and I'm grateful. So when I need it,

075and I think your point about uh us spend an evening in the ER and I haven't seen the bill yet. Um so I'm suspect, you know, there's going to be some stuff that I will likely dip into my health, but I also am one of those people that wait a couple months and then it just so I I think you know again to your point Scott so it's big and it's not a lot so you know that's money that comes back to the district that are paying for who knows what or whatever it may be but also to me the biggest part was this piece I I didn't want to pay this 7.65% Well, I just have a few comments. I want to say I appreciate the district um bringing an additional benefits for the

076employees for consideration. I also know how termination and separation fees can be very expensive. Um, I also know that in our district there's a lot of people like me that are still young, but we have been here for a long time in the district. So, we're coming up on retirement. So, I can see the idea behind of let's save those money in in there so we can use when those people retire using all the areas of our districts. Totally appreciate that. However, personally, I think it's restrictive because I have been taking care of my health I have managed my money and so at the end to be says no you will not get a payout. You only have these two choices. I think it's restrictive and after almost 27 years of service I don't want

077that. I want to have my freedom to ma manage whatever benefits I get. >> Wait, do you mind if I >> go ahead Daniel? Yeah. But Avon, so what how the plan works is so if you have what's the what's the rate that our payout is like? What dollar amount is it per hour for our PTO? >> It really depends on the person. You get up to 135 days of paid time off. And then if you have administrative vacation, that's >> if you have 135 days, that could be somewhere in the ballpark of like $50,000. If you do this plan, you are going to get three thou an additional 3,000. You're gonna it's gonna give you $3,000 more dollars and then you can just take that money out right away. >> Like there's no The

078only downside doing it is you might have to wait two weeks for the paperwork, >> right? >> That's it. >> Yes. But if I'm not interested in a deferred plan or an account because I have other other plans after retirement. >> Yeah. >> I can still you can still get the money unless you owe someone like a gambling debt that you got to pay off like tomorrow. Like I'm con like I'm guess I guess what I'm asking Ivon is like why >> it's a cash payout. Yeah. >> So, it's no longer will be a cash payout. Right now, I will be able to walk away with my vacation in 135 days out of the 200 days that I currently have of leave time. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> And now instead of getting cash, it will

079be like, oh, you put it into a health account or you put it into a 43b. >> Yeah. But why? >> I don't want that. >> But so, but once I take it out, then I pay the taxes. >> Well, so I can pay the taxes on >> You're going to pay those taxes anyway. >> Correct. >> Right. So, and this is this is a plan to help save the FICA taxes that you would be charged when you get that cash payout from the district. So, you are saving, you're getting an extra $3,000 in that payout, and it is deferred, but it's only deferred as long as you want it to be deferred, right? So once it's available for you to withdraw at no fee to withdraw that, you could roll it into another 403b.

080If you have a different account that you want to put it into, you could take the cash >> and you would get charged those taxes at that time. >> But I'll be I would not be able to withdraw until I'm 59 or 55, right? >> No. Immediately. >> 55. So >> And you're not you're going to be 53 when you retire. You're not going to be affected by this because we'll if we go at 55 you get your payout. >> Will you still come back? Yes. >> Great question. >> So during that year, you're obviously not going to be a a Kraton employee. So you're not going to be working there. You can be in a >> still come back and work. >> Yeah. You're not an employee though. So you're technically a contract uh

081for the year. Then you come back after. So, you would go through the process. We get a lot of people who will they're going to like, let's just say a $6,000 payout. They're going to use their health that innocence that money to pay for the one year of health insurance and then they're just going to come back and work for the district. Just to touch on the the product real quick. So, the big thing with the age limit and it being 55. So, let's say you're 53. Let's say you're getting $50,000. You don't need to worry about us. If you're not 55 in the year that you separate, you're just going to get paid out through payroll. You get the cash payout you want. Let's say you are 56. Same $50,000 payout. It goes into

082the tax deferred plan, the 403b. You can take that money out immediately. So, the rules on a 403b, 59 and a half, unless you retire. Once you retire, it takes it to 55, you're 55 because that's the uh age restriction on on the payout. You can take that money out the day the account is funded. There's no waiting. So, if you want a cash payout, and we run into this a lot with people, of I just want my money out, then you can take the money out the first day that it's funded, and you save that 7.65%. So, your $50,000 payout, thank you for doing the math because that's not really my strong suit, you're going to get an additional about $3,000 because you don't pay that FICA and Medicare tax. Do you want to

083go to the next slide? >> We're talking about that part. I just want to make sure you know you do get the cash right away. >> Yeah. >> Well, paperwork right away. >> Yeah. It's about a It's about I will be on It's about a three week turnaround. So, you'll get your money three weeks later. >> Um I'm Well, you're speaking a foreign language to me, so I'm I'm trying to follow it and also like inputting it into chat GPT to translate it for me. So, some of their questions are um why is it a 403b and the A1 and not the 457? It feels like the 457 would be more beneficial to us. >> So, the 457 is going to is not going to have any age restrictions on it. >> So, what you

084can't do with a 457 though is save that 7.65%. So, you would still owe that. If you decided to use a 457 instead of a 401A or 403b, then you're still going to owe that FICAN Medicare taxes. There's no way around that. You there's no way you can pay that money out and save that money. >> I just had one more question. Um, it feels like one of the benefits to the employer for doing a plan like this would be to almost force people into retirement earlier than they would be because they wouldn't like cuz for me on my retirement I can retire at almost 53 years old. So at 53, but then if I were to stay in to hit my next multipliers, then I'm like getting into the age limit, right? And so

085is that the benefit? Cuz >> So like you want they want people to retire early. Is that what you're saying? >> Is that true or is that like a benefit? I I don't know. >> So great question. Great question though. The benefit. >> Yeah. So actually more money retirement. >> The district and the employee both want the money paid out. This is where we deal with education and why it flips after a while. Why we go from the 80% going to special pay to more going medical because eventually people understand it that if I'm I'm 55, I want the money paid out this way. I don't want it paid out through payroll because I'm losing money that I shouldn't be losing. I don't save 7.65% if I get paid out through payroll. I save 7.65%

086if it goes through the prime plan or the prime choice plan. So people event the education takes a little bit and we're very big on it. You know generally what we'll do with districts or roll out we do an in-person meeting um if zoom capabilities you know we'll do a zoom meeting and then when we reach out to employees to get these exit interviews scheduled we give them an employeef facing powerpoint that goes over all of the benefits and pitfalls of both options because you know everybody needs to know in a sense what's going on before they make a decision. Then we have that 15 to 20 minute exit interview. Usually the first 5 to 10 minutes of that exit interview is answering questions from the employee. So education is really important. That way when

087you uh you know why you want the money paid out this way. I'm 55. I want it to go into a 403b for a day. Even if I'm just going to take it out, that way you save the 7.65%. Yeah, we're just that last question we can put down and then Joel can send >> to the group. >> And I did want to just answer Katie's question on the district side of it. There's no intent of the district to have anyone retire any other time than when they want to retire. And in fact, uh, when you, uh, do retire earlier, it it costs us more because we have to pay the same. That's a match. The 7.6 is a match. So, all we're saving in this plan is the exact same thing that our employees

088are saving. So, when you don't have to pay the 7.6, we don't have to pay the 7.6 match. So, that's where the savings comes. And when when you retire, if it's after 55, we get that savings. If it's before 55, we don't get the savings and you don't get the savings. So, it doesn't matter. We don't really have a It doesn't affect the district either way where you when or where you retire. We're just trying to offer an additional benefit um that has an equal amount of savings for both sides. >> I I just add a quick thing. I understand how the district's saving. I understand how your money and the third party wants making their money. Um, I like to save money as much as anybody else, but the Medicare and FICA taxes do

089go to pay for something in our society. So, what what are we not helping pay for as members of a society when we're not paying our Medicare and FICA taxes? >> I will actually can speak to this a little bit. I Ben and I have in a previous life, we help people with Medicare. Um Medicare is a very underfunded program through Medicare taxes. So obviously when you're not paying your FIC and Medicare, it's your social it's social security and Medicare is what those taxes are used to fund. I'm the number this is going to be a little bit an older number from 2022. Those FIC and Medicare taxes only 35% of it covers Medicare. The the federal budget is covered. The other 65% comes from other places. So when you're not paying the if you

090want to talk in the societal role of what you're not paying, you're not paying for that that portion of it. But that's a good question. Um so to wrap up here, let's talk employer benefits because we like to be very transparent. Why is the district presenting this? The big one right off the top is the financial savings of the 7.65%. I think we all kind of understand that at this point. Um you look at the payouts, again, I use a number close to a million dollars just because it's easier. Um that's just another district that we um h that was a few years ago. Another big thing as an employer is you got to provide a a valuable benefit to employees. Paying for health insurance. You know, like Alexa said, there's you're going to have

091health insurance costs. You're going to have a few thousand dollars a year that you need to pay in health insurance. And it's really nice to have taxfree money to do that. Um there's no cost for implementation save consortium sponsored plan. So the district doesn't have any costs. All education and servicing done by Precision Retirement Group. Um that's where we do the exit interviews. Um we do those presentations in front of the employees. send them those powerpoints. In a sense, try and un try and let people know this is why you want the money paid out this way so you can get some additional savings. Um option to let the account go dormant. I'll just touch on that really briefly. Um so, you know, let's say we do this for five years and then five years

092down the line they say, "Hey, Mac, you know, this isn't working out." Instead of they don't have you can just stop contributing to the account. So, you don't have to continue with us as a service. we will continue to service all of the employees that are in the account or that have accounts with us. But if you say, you know, we're going to stop doing this plan with you, the district has the option to let the account go dormant. Um, and they don't have to pay any cancellation fees if they decide to let the account go dormant. >> Wait, how does this work? So, as people are filling up time, the district is slowly putting money into those accounts. >> Uh, so it's only going to be at retirement. So, let's say let's say you

093have $10,000. So once you finally retire, they're going to send your $10,000 to our third party administrator who does the 403. >> I'm asking in the meantime is the district has their own separate account where they're putting money into and then as people are retiring then they're pulling from that account and paying it out in the way to build interest on the money. >> No. So it's just going to only be we only work with individuals. So the district doesn't have like a an account per se. They would just send a check to our thirdparty administrator that says, "Hey, you know, you got paid out 10,000, you got paid out 12,000, you got paid out 8,000 and you and it'd be the employees who have the individual accounts. They're all housed under would be housed

094under like a Kraton school district, but it's not the employer's account per se. >> Oh, you made something like account go dormant and then what happen?" >> Yeah. So, if the district decided they, you know, let's say five years down the low down the road, they said, "Hey, this isn't working out." The big thing is we have what's called plan documents. That's where you outline who has to participate. 55 and $5,000, let's say. That's where you have to outline what's going to happen. Everybody else gets paid out through payroll. You can say, "Hey, we're no longer going to do that plan and stop contributing to uh to our plan." So that Kraton Prime choice plan, they can decide to stop contributing and just let it go dormant and go back to paying out through payroll

095if they want to. Obviously, obviously we don't want that to happen. We haven't had that happen with any of our school districts, but it is important to be transparent of they do have the option to do that. >> It's just the account is just >> so it's going to be continue to be serviced for all the money that's left in there for all the individual participants. So, let's say I retired 5 years ago, I did the health account, I get to still continue to use that, but Kraton would no longer send other new employees over to us. >> Okay. >> Yep. Uh, last thing, it's cut off there. It just says IRS compliant records. Our thirdparty administrator has just IRS compliant records to show that the plan is uh valid and that we're doing all

096the right things IRS wise of sending out tax documents to people um throughout the year. >> But I think that's I think that is it. >> Yeah. So, yeah, if you guys have any additional questions, feel free to shoot us an email. We're happy to answer any questions. Um the the this this came about uh the owner is has two parents that went through ASRS. There are school teachers in Tucson, Arizona. Um I can speak to that because the owner is my dad and those are my grandparents. So um if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to reach out. We're happy to answer any questions and do any, you know, additional presentations, whatever is necessary. >> Thank Thank you very much for your time. We really appreciate it. >> Absolutely. >> You know, you

097guys were a really good group. we've presented to some other sorry I'll wrap this up real quick. You know you guys asked some really good questions. I think it's really good when there's >> it's not a thing of just like all right what does a district want to do but you guys had really good questions. We just did a different presentation I won't say the school district and there was about one question and then it moved on and it's like >> I think become clients so I really can't do that but thank you. I would just like to say I am not a paid sponsor of this. What I shared was my only my personal personal opinion as a beneficiary of this. So I I am do not want that I am not trying to

098influence any decision in here. So I just want to make that clear. But having been on the professional side of it uh in another school district that very very similar questions and concerns and and understandings and um >> so I think it's That's my big downfall. I'm just so against it. >> But you >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. get those answered for you. >> I would als I would also suggest that you know Linda's going to be here for a little bit with us. um uh le um Vanessa and myself and I don't see Dom but u we also have uh opportunity to answer some questions you might have um in full disclosure I'm also in that age where I'm getting ready to cash out my retirement

099or so um I have some thoughts not leaving >> all right so um Joel you want this group to get to consensus about doing this plan. Okay. >> So, let me do a temperature check. Do we want to take a break first and then we'll come back and you guys can process everything you heard? >> Question. >> So, since this is going >> microphone, >> since this is going into a 403b, if the economy crashes, does that take away your money, too? >> No. So generally speaking, Ariel, how things work in these investment accounts is the company is on the hook for make just like with a bank, right? The company is on the hook for if you have money in an account, even though somewhere someone's using that money to invest, they have a

100legal guarantee to get you that money. The only thing that could cause you to not get that money is like a bank like almost how like a bank run would work where all the banks are out of money, no one has money anywhere, the entire economy is exploding. Well, then yeah, you're screwed. But then we're probably also all scavenging for gasoline sides. >> Maybe I'm not understanding. I I have a 403b and my 403b does fluctuate with the stock market. So I know you said this is a tax deferred account, but you can potentially lose. >> Well, I think that's that's because your 403b is invested into the market. They said that they provide a 3.6% return on the 403b. So somewhere someone's money is invested in the market but again maybe you have to

101ask them but this type of investment account >> talk to your your person or whomever is uh working with you on your 403b about about this >> because it's just a retirement account. You can you can choose to invest your retirement account money into the market or not or you can just have it sit there, >> right? Like I can tell you my amount hasn't changed. Whatever I got is still there. Um could I do something? Yes. But I just I'm I let it be and yeah. >> So basically we're giving them free money where they take it and they go into invest it. So then they make money off of it. They could be making trillions of or millions of dollars and all we will walk away with is 3.65%. >> That's all that's

102also how like Fidelity or any other investment account works. >> Yes. >> Okay. But you can get interest savings account. You can get >> but it's essentially free money and it saves the district. >> There is some savings account you can get up to 12%. >> Tell me where that savings account is. >> All right. All right. It's 9:30. Let's come back at 9:45. It's 9:31. So 14 minute break. 9:45 and then we'll >> You guys can research high yield savings accounts. seats. >> I hear you. >> And let's get moving on to uh this. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, we're going to talk. We're missing a couple of folks. Um what we're going to do is we're going to look at the option of the precision retirement plan. Um there are

103really only two options as I see it right is to do the precision retirement plan or to not do the retirement plan. So, we're going to run it through the standards. Um, and Joel is going to display, excuse me, a spreadsheet and we'll talk about the scoring. Um, but I'm hesitant to do this if we're missing three, >> four people. Let me let me just poke my head out here and see if people are Thank you. >> just say we're going to be making decisions without you. All right. So, >> you may recall at our last meeting we came to consensus on using these standards that you can see in columns B through uh E. So, is it aligned to student outcome focused governance? Is it legal? Is it fiscally responsible and sustainable? And is

104it in the best interest of children? And we talked about our scoring four options. One is strongly disagree, two is disagree, three is agree, four is strongly agree. And I'm going to write these down just in case people forget. Um, that's great. If everybody knows what essay is, strongly agree, D is disagree. SD is strongly disagree. Okay. Thank you, Joel. So, given what you've heard about the uh precision retirement payout plan, the options are one to adopt that plan. Two, status quo, keep things as is. Just as a refresher, the plan only applies if you are 55 years or older. And if your payout amount, is it 5,000 or 10$10,000? $10,000 or more. Okay. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask you on the uh count of three, you're just going

105to hold up your number with appropriate fingers and I'm going to add and someone who's my math person in here? Daniel. Daniel's gonna also check. We can all add, but when I start saying the numbers, I I trying to add it can get very confusing. So, um, Daniel, maybe help check my math if I call out numbers and we'll add them up and then we'll see where we are on the totals and then we'll talk about consensus after that. >> Okay. >> All right. So, the first standard is this option. We're going to start with option one, which is to adopt precision. Is this option aligned to student outcome focus governance? So on the count of three, show me with your fingers one through four. >> Guard rail. >> Okay. >> Um probably guard rail

106three which is aboution and >> recruitment and retention is a guardrail within there. Thank you. So let me see fingers. So I've got you want me to call out numbers Daniel or you want me to add? Okay. 3 1 4 4 4 3 3 3 3 3. >> 41. I got it. >> 41. >> Okay. >> I know. I usually just go 3 1 4 8 12 whatever. >> Just as you were saying. >> Thank you. >> Um >> 41. >> So this is how we come to consensus. Well, we we're going to do the points and then we'll talk about consensus after we get the points. Is this legal to do this? We're relying on Joel's expertise and >> it is a legal option. Okay. So, I'm looking for your score again. Four is

107strongly agree, one is strongly disagree. >> Three. Four. Four. Four. Four. Four. Four. Four. Four. 4 3 4 >> 54. >> Is this fiscally responsible and sustainable scores ready? Is it fiscally and responsible to adopt the precision plan? 4 2 4 4 4 >> 52. >> Is this option in the best interest of children? >> Got to give it a score. 1 3 3 Ariel >> 3 >> Okay, now we're going going to do the same exercise for the option of status quo, which is to continue doing what you've been doing, which I'm guessing is just paying everybody out cash. >> I have one question. >> Is this protected by is this insured by FDIC? >> Great question. >> Can you use the mic? >> I'm asking is the accounts insured by FDIC? I know

108you said we don't lose money if we put it in. will get interest. But is it protected by the FDIC? >> I believe FDIC specifically banks. That's what I believe. >> I mean, which which account? There's there's multiple accounts and >> uh there investment opportunities that have their risks based on your indiv. >> But is the precision option are you asking about the precision option or the status quo option? >> No, the precision option 3B is FDI. We don't lose any money. >> Yeah. So Ariel's asking is like, so let's say, for example, cuz this company's owned by an investment group, right? And that's how they make their money. Let's say this investment group, I don't know, they get bought out, they make a bunch of poor decisions. >> They lose all their money. What

109happens to our money? Usually >> Yeah. >> Investigate what happens when investment companies go out of business. What happens to your money? >> Those speaks to that they've been around. It doesn't mean they haven't lost everyone's money in 20 years and came back. We now remember 2008. But I mean, we're working as this is like a tax deferred savings account. I mean, if you were to just take your cash out and put it into a savings account that was FBI protected. I don't know. I don't know. Hey, >> we can seek to get that answer or get that question answered if you want to email or put it on posted >> on it today. And then what happens if it turns out that it's not FDIC protected? >> I say let's go through the process.

110Okay. >> If we find out there are no protections in place, then we could update that through an email with this group. Google says >> it's on. >> Sorry, I don't know. >> We can email them real quick and see if they can confirm what Google tells us. I don't That's the best I can do right now. It says, "If a company administering your 403b goes out of business, your money is generally protected because it is held in a trust or annuity contract separate from the company's assets. Your funds will be transferred to a new administrator or you would be given the option to roll them into a different tax shelter thing. >> Sure, I'll email them." >> Okay. So let's we're going to go through the same exercise with the status quo option still

111scoring just as you did with the former one. Okay. So if we keep everything as is, is that aligned with student outcome focused governance and the guardrails around recruitment and retention? I'm guessing there's one in is there guardrail about finance budget? >> Well, that's >> that's one of the guardrails we talked about at the beginning. Thank you. Okay, here we go. Kelly, you ready? >> No. >> Yes. >> Opportunities for revenue generation. That's right. >> Okay. >> I was wondering if this is necessary because if we don't vote for it, then we're going to do this anyway, right? This status quo option. >> Yeah. But I want to let's go through the process because I want you to see because when we start to do this with more options uh like when we're looking at

112compensation I just want you to see how it >> Okay, go. >> Okay. >> It's like a a learning exercise if you will. All right. Here we go with scores. Show me with fingers please. Four. Oreo. Four. Three. Four. Three. Four. Three. Three. Four. Four. Three. Three. Four. Three. Is this legal? Is this legal? Four. Four. Four. Four. Four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four. All fours. >> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 * 4 is 56. >> Okay. Is it fiscally responsible and sustainable to do status quo? >> Kelly, you ready? >> Yes. 4 3 2 3 3 2 3 3 2 3 3 2 3 3 >> 3 >> Is this in the best interest of children to maintain the status quo

113around your payout? I'm looking for score. Well, you can think about it if you think about it through. >> Okay. >> Social security when you got kids. >> All right. Here we go. >> Here we go. Three, two, three, three, three, two, two, two, three, three, three, two, four, three. Thank you. >> Okay. Now, to your point, um, Kelly, what I want you to see is right now we have just these two options, right? And they're not significantly different. So, we have to make a decision. You could say, okay, well, the first option got uh more points, and so that is the one we're going to come to consensus about. In some cases, I would say not in this one because it's it's you have two options. Do this or do nothing. In some cases,

114you're going to have other options. And if the points were very close, you might advance both of them for the purpose of consensus. Um, in this case, we need a decision about one or the other. There not other options around this, if that makes sense. So I wanted you to see how it works, how everybody gets to decide through an objective lens of standards how we evaluate the option through those uh through the lens of the standard. >> Okay. In I think when we do some other things later it'll >> possibly it'll look it'll let's see what happens. It'll in this case to your point it's and if this or that in other cases it you can have a lot of options that actually may move forward. Okay. >> Okay. So now given that um

115the original the first option h does have more points, I'm going to look for consensus around moving forward with the district moving to adopt the precision product with the parameters of a 55 minimum age and a $10,000 minimum or minimum payout. So consensus, let me remind you, I fully support it. I can live with it. I have more questions. Okay, so let me look around the room for initial thumbs on moving forward with this precision product. Okay, I see two thumbs down. Dorothy, you have a question about it or >> I guess a question and and a statement. Um I as a small district I don't feel I support the idea of the district sa saving money obviously I'm always looking for things that around that. Um I have my own personal opinion about I

116I don't mind paying my taxes and I'm okay with my 7.65% going towards social security and FICA for long-term sustainability as a society. Um, and I don't think that the district is going to save enough money as a small district to make some of the turmoil and the change that this is going to cause worthwhile. >> And for me personally, I am against it. >> Okay. So, I want to remind you that right that that is more of a position versus I need more information or I have a question about this. I'm not saying right. You're absolutely entitled to what you're saying. What I what I'm asking you through this exercise though is I can live with it like >> Okay. I guess I want to know how much money we project that this the

117district would save in an average year by using this plan. So that's a question before I >> So Joel would have to ask like how much you pay out in an average year. Okay. >> And that >> what >> if I understand correctly, this went through a committee. Is that >> it went through triad? So triad it represents the but uh business services department payroll human resources and grants. So um the the reason this came up was because of the cost savings that it would be to the district as well as a benefit to employees. Um, we could find out what the annual expenses are on term benefits, which is what that payout is usually uh couched under. >> Oh, yeah. >> It changes from year to year based on who's retiring and how long

118they've been in the district, right? So, last year we had a really seasoned person from the executive team who retired. That's going to be a very different payout than someone who's been in a classified position for 25 years. that their payout might look a little different. So, >> okay, Ariel, you have a question? >> Mine is like, >> oh, >> my thing is when something sounds too good to be true, it often is. So, it sounds like, oh, you're getting a free $3,000. Nothing in this world is free. And also, this mindset, oh, you just put in the account, you're going to get 3.65% interest. So, we're wording it as it's go. It's almost like a savings account, but we don't not even sure if it's even insured by the FDI. So, that makes me

119very hesitant. >> Okay. So, if you had the information and it was like, yes, it's insure. I don't know if it's I don't know anything about this financial bank versus investment company, whatever, whoever protects whatever. If you had the information and they were like, "Yes, there is a protection mechanism in place." Where would your thumb be? >> I'll be a thumbs up for it. >> Okay. So, if you if you let me ask the rest of the group, if you all said, "Oh, there's no protection in place." Would you all change your thumbs from where they previously were just now? >> You might go sideways. Some of you might go from here to here. Okay. Okay, Joel, if we get the information from them, it so I'm taking what you said, you would go back

120up if you found out there was some sort of legal mechanism in place. So given if you get that answer which I think there will probably be a answer of yes um I think we I believe there is consensus to move forward but I think we get the piece of information so that everybody has it I believe we can get that relatively quickly whether Linda or Vanessa or Okay Vanessa do you know who the is it Linda Linda's contact can you have her reach out or can >> I texted Linda talk to precision about the security of the accounts and any potential danger or risk to that. And then I also just emailed uh to request what I think would be a better lens of Dorothy would be a 10ear look back at instead of

121just >> let me give this >> I think her your desk picture was >> oh >> I don't think they're on I tried um versus like just a one-year look. I think we should do a 10-year look. uh we'll see uh savings and annual savings over a 10-year period and then we'll break it down like you know by year. So you can see 10 years you can see how it goes up and down and then you can see an approximate savings uh guesstimate that we would have gone back and do a look back for 10 years uh to see what the savings to the district could be. I would like to see what happened in 2008 when the economy I would like to see what happens when the economy is crashing like in 2008 when

122we hit that recession. I think that would be a better indicator of what would happen because right now the economy is being held together >> by data centers and AI stream and gum. So I would like to see what happened in 2008 when everything went koon with the economy. What happens with those accounts? >> Oh, the 403b type accounts. >> So, I who is I mean is that something we can look up on? >> I think that would be some research on >> on the I did look up the company to see if they had any like enforcement actions or like other financial insolveny issues and the answer was no. >> That's just me because like a lot of people lost their retirement and everything in 2008. That's because that that's >> But there necessarily

123wasn't any legal. >> So, so, so, so for example, if you get your 403b account money from them, this payout, let's say it's, you know, however much, $50,000, and you then invest your 403b in the market with them or somebody else and the market crashes. Yeah. You lose all your money. >> No, it is. It's Yeah, it's a retirement account. It's an investment account. as if the economy >> because you don't >> this is not a savings account insured >> because you have to invest the money you have to make the choice >> that's wrong that's in >> okay well can I make one one comment to that >> one at a time >> Ariel let me just let me respond to that is that I think in every financial situation when you invest your

124money in some fashion whether it's in a tax sheltered uh program in a 403b a 401k a 457 seven, um, an IRA, all of those different financial things, a savings account, you have a risk factor and it is your responsibility as an individual to manage the risk, right? So the I think the benefit of this plan is if you decide to manage your risk and leave it in some plan, you can do that whether we have precision or not like and then with precision, you can take your money out immediately if you say this is too risky for me. I don't want my money to be in here. You put it into the deferred account. You save the 7.6% and then you pull your money out immediately and you say, I would rather have my

125cash or invest in the things that I feel are safer like a savings account that is backed by FDIC insured stuff. So if your timing happens and you lose your money in the 3 weeks that it takes you to process the paper, that's a risk. But I don't when you look at the cost benefit to risk. Well, but also the 403b is not invested in the market unless you go and invest it in the market. >> You can make a choice of how to invest it. >> The only Well, which means the only way you'd lo the only way you'd lose your money is if the company goes completely insolvent and then you'd be able to like sue to get it back and all that other stuff. It's not FDIC insurers. >> I don't think

126that's the only protection that is in >> Okay, hang on one second. Eve, >> um I just wanted to say I I have a 403b and I um do not invest it. It just it's basically a savings account. I don't have any really I have a 403b and I do not invest any of it. It just sits there and acrru interest and I contribute to it a certain amount every month, but it's not invested. I could put some of it in the stock market, but that scares me. So, I'm probably losing out on a lot of money, but I mine just sits there. So, I exactly what Daniel is saying is if you choose to put it in a 403b, you get to decide how you either save it or invest it. If you're not

127investing it, then when the stock market crashes, it will not crash. And and and although Eve with Arios with what Arios and I left two companies, lose my 43b two times because the company doing shady work. I understand how a 43b works. I understand how to roll it over. I understand all of that. You guys are worrying as oh you won't lose money because I'm not investing. >> I don't think anyone's saying how it works. What are you saying Eve is that the difference between a 403b and a savings account is that if the company that you have your 403b with goes under or becomes insolvent then you will lose your money whereas in a savings account it would be insured by the federal government. However, if if these companies start going under that means

128it's like >> more than the federal government right now but um and again these are individual >> realistic risk to consider >> fiscal decisions of people need to make on their own. So >> not giving us the choice. You're saying that we have to anyone that meets the criteria has to do it. So taking away our ability to make the active decision like, hey, I'm willing to take so and so risk. >> I'm not taking anything. We're bringing an option to this group to make a decision of what the best choice is for the district and for this group. I am not taking anything from anyone. I I I we bring options to this group for you to decide on it. We are not doing something wrong or bad to bring options to to discuss.

129>> You can choose to move it. >> Correct. And that's a the individual's decision. >> So what I see is consensus from the group to move forward with the adoption or option one and we are going to continue to seek the answer to the question about the >> I have two questions out. So, as soon as we get that, we'll share that back with the group. >> And all right, we're moving on to >> I don't think it matters. >> Does our thumbs down mean nothing. We are not allowed to thumb things down. That decision was made weeks ago. You guys, you just weren't paying attention to we thumbing down. We cannot say no to things. Thumbing down means I have a question. >> I had a question. It didn't get answered, but now we're

130at consensus. I heard Vanessa say she's getting a research for it. >> And I I heard Ariel say >> a long time ago. >> Which one? >> If we can't down, why are we here? >> Yeah. >> Well, because this is what like um there's a difference between positions based bargaining and interest based. >> That's correct. By the numbers, by all of the criteria, this is in the best interest of the school district. So, moving forward, even though some people may not personally like it, >> you can't personally it. >> Yeah. So, so you don't have a personal veto. >> You are here as a representative of the greater school districts determine what's in the best interest of the greater school district. >> All right. And I and I should say that and we're all

131on camera is that when you walk out of here, when you're saying this or you're saying this is that that is the message you carry outside of here is that yes, we supported this decision. It was it may not have been my first choice, but I I can live with it. Because if you're outside and you're actively saying the opposite of what just happened here, then that is contrary to the purpose of interest negotiation. It doesn't mean questions don't come up, concerns, we get positional, we want right emotions, all of those things happen and we try to navigate through the lens of the interest listening to understand and hopefully get some of those things answered so that people feel more comfortable when they move forward with a thumb up or a thumb sideways. And if

132you don't or if you are here is that you have asked a question to better understand the option but not to just say no because you evaluated it through there we vetted it in a work group in this case it was through uh I don't is triad like a district committee or is triad okay >> a work committee group okay >> so maybe like the majority always wins so even if like something would negatively impact a minority ority group. It doesn't matter because the majority of people I know you're about to say something >> as a minority in this district. >> Can we let's move the microphone over here. >> Oh, sorry. >> So basically what you're saying I'm sorry people because I see the faces. What you're saying is the majority always win out

133over the minority. So even if something will impact a small group of people in the district, it doesn't really matter because it's going to benefit the majority. So the majority always wins. And no matter >> majority of what >> in any given thing like as long as majority of people are okay with it, the people that are in the minority, it doesn't really matter. I I would not say that because what I would say is everybody has an opportunity to ask the questions, get the information to better understand uh in some cases right we didn't do these options but in others we have developed our own options. So as we work through as a group on those that's when you're having the conversation putting forward some of the options going through this process to then

134say okay we have these options and these are the ones that we're comfortable moving forward in some cases like I was saying earlier uh with Kelly is you know like under the workload one and we're going to revisit that in a second we had several options. You might move several forward but not all because if they don't meet the objective criteria, then you have to be rethinking what it is you're trying to do. Does that make sense? >> My major fears also is that district is going to be sitting behind the scenes because you told us that every option we came up with had to be based off of that survey the district ga gave us. I didn't see this anywhere on the district survey. So now what I feel like if the triad behind

135the scenes have meetings and make decisions and then they bring stuff to us and some of us are kind of like no we don't want this we didn't even ask for this where did this come from it doesn't matter that some of us are kind of like where's this coming from if the majority of people want it still would go through so I feel like we're putting the triad in a position where they can make decisions behind the scenes without the rest of us cuz CA wasn't a part of that triad. >> So, we're putting the district in a position where they can make decisions behind the scene and come to us and that right there just does not feel like I'm sorry. >> Okay. Uh Ivonne and then Eve, >> I just want to

136the conversation. I appreciate all of the the comments, but um I want to extend on the comments from um Ariel. Um when it comes to trial, they're not making the they're just making recommendations. and the recommendations that came through the survey and through many of the stories that are shared through us representatives as Daniel said it's always an interest of having greater benefits than employee so this is one example of how the entire system is bringing more benefits or more choices for the um for the employees and uh I just want to say that I I I agree in in regards to not one person having the power to veto because everybody here around in the group has great minds and great hearts and great desires and so even if we don't understand it and

137a few minutes ago I was not understanding the the benefit but then it was thanks to all of you your comments and then a one-on-one conversation that I'm like oh I I I have my facts now I can see what everybody else was was was seeing and so I I I I do believe that I trust everybody in the room and even if I feel sideways, I'm like I go with the room because I trust everybody in this in this room and and where their heart and their minds stay. >> Thank you, Eve. And then Dorothy, >> um I I just wanted to speak to being in Triad. I am in Triad. um this came up as a benefit or an option and in that moment all we saw was the slide that showed the

138potential savings for the employee and for the district. In that moment when that came up we said this should go to meet and confer and then it was added to the agenda. We did not in that meeting we did not say this is amazing. I can't wait to have this. Nobody said that. We looked at what was being offered and the the team said this needs to go to meet and confer and then they came today and presented more information. I still didn't really understand what they were talking about at Triad. It wasn't until today that I actually understood what the cost savings was going to be for both the employee and the employer, but no decision was made. I just want that to be really clear because when we start to say things like

139people are making decisions and we don't have a voice and we're being live streamed again that starts to question people's integrity and I think that's really unfair and it's not factual. So I just wanted to be real clear that it was brought to us as a benefit and then the triad said bring it to me and confer and let them make the decision. Nobody made the decision without it coming here. Thank you. >> You should not have a vote. >> A vote of what? >> Nobody's Nobody's voting though. >> Speak and then can I call a what do we call >> a caucus? Dorothy and then James. >> I I definitely don't want to be confrontational at all. >> Daniel, >> but Ivon, you had really strong feelings about this until you understood that it

140wasn't going to affect you. What if the cut off had been 50 and now it was directly going to affect what your retirement was going to be? Would you still feel the same way that hey, whatever you all feel is great with me or would you feel stronger about that thumbs down? >> Thank you for the question. So yes, at at the beginning that was my position, but after I understood that even though if it was 55 and I needed to make the choice of 43B or the other health account, I can still have two to three weeks to pull out the money. And so in that in that sense, I'm like I can put it in this account, save seven and 65% money for not paying FICA or if I change my mind, I

141have two to three weeks and then I get my money back. And so once I realized that, not only personally I felt like I'm not losing, I'm not at risk, but everybody else. And so that's why I said it's a great benefit. >> Thank you. Uh Daniel. >> Oh, I think we want to do a caucus. >> I want to do a caucus. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How many minutes? >> Give me five. >> Five minutes. It is 10 21. We'll see everybody back in here at 10:26. I'll double check. Yeah. Okay, so we just returned from our caucus and have a couple of process questions. So the first one is um related to new options being brought to the table. So, we just would like some clarity on um one, is there a deadline

142for when new options can be brought to the table? We feel like that there should be a designated >> this meeting or this specific date where no new options can be brought because, as we've talked about, we could, you know, have another parking lot conversation or triad meeting or whatever and new options could come forever and ever and at some point we have to say that's it. We need to just move forward with the process. And so, we feel like that just needs to be clarified. What is the date where no new options can be brought? whether it's the district side, the CEA side, someone's opinion on whatever, no matter what or where it comes from, we need a deadline on when options are to be brought and then along with that how they came

143to be. So just a little bit more clarity on this was discussed in this meeting or I had this conversation with my colleague or whatever and this is how the option came to be so that both sides are clear because there was some confusion on one side having more power so to speak in bringing options to the table than the other side. Did I capture that accurately? Okay. And then the other clarification was on the number system. So uh the team felt like there's not a threshold. So we never got a number on if we are above I'm making things up 150 then it is viable or not? We need some clarity on what the final count means. Like yes 189 is more than 183 but what does that mean? Does that mean that we

144are beyond and that moves forward or are there still questions? Is there some sort of threshold that the team needs to determine in order for an option to be viable based on the voting that happens? Um, and then there was a question on consensus. If someone is a thumbs down because they have more questions related to the option, do they get a chance for those questions to be answered to then adjust their vote and then retake the vote to come to consensus? We feel like there should be some time allotted. We had a couple of questions come up with folks that were thumbs down. We know that we've reached out to the bros, sorry, they were kind of broy about um the about the viability of this option and at what point do those need

145to be answered before the the uh participants can rechange their vote? That was the worry. Did I make sense there? >> Let me see if I captured everything. Question about the process deadline for new options. question about the numbering uh the scoring evaluation of the options through the standards if is there a threshold or not and then if somebody has a thumbs down and they have more questions >> when do we decide yeah okay >> and then just coupled with the first one about the options how did the option come to be just more clarity >> got it I have that too okay um so let me answer a couple things oh is that it >> did I miss anything There was maybe just one more question as well. So if somebody does have a

146thumbs down and they ask a question and it is answered, if that would for some reason change our initial voting, would we be able to go back and like you know if for example if an answer was qu or a question was answered and that changed our feeling on um for example like if it was fiscally responsible, are we able to then go back and redo that vote or would we just still have to move forward with it. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Once questions were answered. >> Okay. Let me try to answer these. So the first question around uh options and a deadline for new options. So I let's talk a little bit about this because the way I was viewing the when you talk about interestbased negotiations when you're here in this room you're

147generally talking about three things salary uh working conditions and benefits. In in my estimation, let's use this particular example option. This falls under the benefit uh category. Now, how it came to be sounds like it lived in a triad much like some of your other um salary benefit working condition things do. Your insurance, which we're going to talk about today, lives in the committee, right? because it's not this group that develops the plans or deduct any, you know, all the pieces that go into that. Similarly, I think in compression, I think you've got a group working on that. So, what it sounds like, at least my take on that is you've got these committees that were formed. Some of them I think were a result of your previous IBN uh work, compression specifically. And so

148when that work is done then you bring those options in here and this group uh pay for performance is another one and then this group ultimately makes uh comes to consensus around those particular options that th those groups brought to the table. Now what we would say is if you recall back when we started talking about um working conditions not the last meeting but maybe the one before we looked at all we looked at the survey we looked at some of the issues on there and we said this is we're done with this one we're not finished because we have to go through some of that today but no more no more options ideas around that particular thing and we decided that you are correct that we should say okay no more you can't bring

149anything else. But >> say it again, >> as of this date or whatever. >> Correct. But it's my understanding we have that all of that information and most of which we're going to try to get through today. Insurance, paper performance, uh compensation and within compensation multiple things within the compensation category. If you go out and you say okay we've got XYZ number of more options we want to bring to talk about like workload then I would say we we settled that one. So can I get how it how these things got here it my understanding was this is how things sort of happened last year is you've got these working committees that bring these ideas that fall within those three overarching categories. I don't know if Joel or anyone else want I can't tell you

150how the uh that particular option came to be other than what I heard was that there was a triad about this thing. >> I just want to clarify is triad considered a committee. I know usually committees teachers have the options of joining them. So triad is not considered a committee. I >> I don't know what tri I don't have a definition about a triad. I would say tri try triad is an operational working group that involves the the fiscal side of the house HR and payroll and grants. So that's that's the group that at the district level makes uh recommendations or looks at challenges or processes that need to be resolved. >> And while options come from committees, they don't exclusively come from committees or working groups or whatever you want to call them. They

151could also come, like I said, from a parking lot conversation that somebody had an idea that you're bringing. So that doesn't necessarily preclude, you know, it doesn't have to live in some sort of committee with representation from each side or whatever. That's fine. I just think we need a deadline because otherwise everyone's going to keep bringing things and then it feels nefarious feels. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying that's the feeling that I was getting from the group outside is that there were things conversations that are happening and things that are bre and at what point does that do we have a a stop >> to ask a question could if we decided in like 30 minutes to bring forth something will we have the ability to bring it forth even though it

152wasn't in a committee >> I that's happening like that work has happened in here already like again if we go back a couple meetings ago when we started addressing working conditions and we started there I think because we didn't have all the data around uh enrollment and budget stuff and all of that. So we start there because those typically are non financial decisions and then as we get the information and you don't have all your data from your insurance then you have that and then you move forward. >> Can I call for three minutes? I'm so sorry. Uh, can give me one second because I thought I saw a couple more hands or not. No, I'm gonna make it. Ivonne, >> I was just going to say that an example of an option that didn't

153came from a committee or a working operational group. It came a few years ago, Ariel, and it was, for example, the idea that came from the group over here was the $10,000 bonus. It didn't came from a consultant, Triad, anybody. It came from people in this room. And so I don't see what's the difference having the resources that we have from Valley School wise when they talk about benefits and there are no teachers in this committee or this work. Uh I don't see the the need for having teachers. We're just talking about people being overwhelmed and now we're saying well we cannot bring unless somebody is in there or like we have a lot of resources. Uh so just like Kelly saying there can be options that come in parking lots in this group outside

154in all of the other resources and if they're good resources let's consider and then and then just represent every voice in every requirement. >> That's it. >> But my whole thing is like I asked the question like if CA says okay we want to bring forth this recommendation. We're saying that we've already established the recommendations in the last previous meetings. Those things have been done already, right? >> But we didn't say that. That's the whole point. We never said that, which is why there's new options today. >> So, I'm asking for clarification because I just asked the question. So, if CA in 30 minutes decide, oh, we want to bring forth this recommendation, could we? >> I mean, as of now, we don't have a deadline. So, >> he just said no. >> I I

155was talking about the working condition. So around working condition we we came to consensus that once we addressed the um the issue that we identified specific to that that we were finished with that particular area. Now what I would say is if there are other benefit options or other compensation op options that you all and there may be an opportunity for that today when we get to the compensation piece. Um, but you've got things that you already tasked a group to do to bring forward and the budget is what the budget is. And so we're going to have to work within that. In some cases, I can just tell you like for example, I've been in a a place where, you know, they give you the dollar amount and they say, "Okay, here's your dollar

156amount to work with with compensation. How do you want to spend it?" let's say and groups divide up whole group comes back together we go through this process by evaluating the options and then we say okay what do we see here what can we move forward we come to consensus on that um so I agree we can talk about putting a deadline on options I don't believe other than what we're talking about today insurance pay for pay for performance and compens compensation and within the compensation umbrella there are multiple things compression uh holiday whatever some things that were already previously identified and then whatever's left over budget wise >> also want to clarify this is not about the whatever this is the precision account it's about the process because I don't know the processes seem

157kind of murky to me can I have three minutes outside can we call copy >> can you can you tell me when you say the process are you talking about the IBN process. >> Yes, I'm trying to because this is the way we're doing it is brand new from any of the way we have ever done it. >> Which part? >> The entire thing. So I want it's pretty different very different. So I want to make sure I have a clear understanding moving forward about what this process is. So let me I just want to make sure I understand because on the very first day I did a training with this group about what interestbased negotiations is what we do how we look at issues we identify interest or we tell the story we develop

158options we use uh standards to evaluate those and we came to consensus on this particular process. We even came to consensus on consensus which I think was a new consensus versus what you all used um in prior years. So my question is is there something different than from that first day than where we are today in the process? >> Yeah. But also for me I even remember in the beginning when we were talking about the process even I had very I was I had what's the word I'm looking for? your concerns. >> I had concerns from the very beginning about the process because it didn't 100% make sense to me the first day we were talking about it. It didn't really make much sense to me the second time, but now I'm kind of getting

159because I even said I don't know how this is going to look in action and I had concerns, but now I'm starting to see how it's going to look in actions. And I know at this point we can't change it. It is what it is. But I would like to talk with my teams to make sure that we that I have the same understanding of what's going to happen going forward as they do. I just need three minutes. >> Okay. Everybody okay with another caucus? Okay. 3 minutes. It's 10:44. We'll see you at 10. It's 10:45. We'll see you at 10:48. So I think there's some um better guidelines around process needing better understanding also understanding that how how we're facilitating that How I'm facilitating IBM this year is different than in years past. Uh

160how we use consensus and thumbs is different than in years past. Items coming here from out from Triad perhaps. Um feeling like there, you know, it's it's here and there hasn't been a process like we've been doing about the some of the options um with folks. So there's just a little bit of unease around that and I think better process clarification uh moving forward but I don't want I don't want to speak for the group. Um I think there's concern about items coming at this time. Can more items come? It's my understanding. I don't know how much more after what we have on the agenda for today is going to come. The idea is there is a feeling, not a feeling that things are happening behind closed doors. Um, and maybe there hasn't been enough

161time to process and better understand or have information like has happened previously where you said, "Okay, can you go cost this out?" sort of thing or get information. The FDIC thing, I'll say, is a completely I would have never thought of that different thing. So I don't know if that is pretty much capturing its process, its deadlines for bringing things. It's understanding uh how items get here from a triad group versus a committee. Um what am I missing, Kelly? >> I think to me it was ultimately the same questions that we brought the first caucus in. I just think it's going to the wave needs to wash over a few times as I like to say. So um yeah, I think we'll get there. >> Okay. Yeah, let me try to answer the question about

162the numbering system. Is there a threshold? No. >> I will tell you in my in other work that I've done, I usually have a same number of classified, same number of certified, same number administrators at the table and they get to each score. And so that's pretty much the only difference. The numbers are the numbers. Um I in those other things we do it equitably to make sure each person is getting or each group is having equal representation when it gets to the scoring but you guys are wallto-wall. So that's why I asked everybody to provide their score. I also clarified that scores have to be objective. This is a rubric if you will of standards. You can't just say something is zero because you're trying to crash and burn the option. if that makes

163sense. Right? You can't say this is a zero on legal just because you don't like it. If it's legal, it's legal, right? Um so I don't know, >> but that's where more clarification is helpful in the beginning to Dorothy's point, like there needs to be more discussion before we get to those numbers so that people feel really confident saying like, "Okay, yeah, I know." because her question specifically is about fiscal responsibility and how much money is it going to cost the district which may have impacted her number that she voted had she known like oh you know what this is actually more of an impact or I'm not explaining why >> I think mate I think the point was if we there was more information about parts of it right and when you get to

164consensus you're not just doing this because you're trying to because you're positional is that you really have all the information so you can be here or here in this case. Dorothy's question was around how much would this really generate in revenue save if you will based on prior retirement uh numbers if that makes sense. So I think there's a a desire to have some of that information prior to the presentation that happened here today. Is that >> accurate? Okay. And then um was there some did I answer all the questions? Do go to a deadline on the when option there to be brought >> I here I don't are there other triad groups out there okay are there other other than what you have today for compression pay for performance insurance is there anything else

165>> not that I can speak to um I think the the things that we've identified like >> um Eve was mentioning in the previous session or previous part of the morning when we identify things in triad that should be taken to meet and confer that's when it gets moved over right >> uh we do have those committees that are making recommendations but that's based on previous work as you mentioned >> right >> um >> quick process question and I didn't know if this was if I'm overstepping but we haven't heard from the group that was not out of the room conversation about the consensus about the um caucus. So, I didn't know if that was going to be an opportunity for that group to address their >> Yeah. >> conversation as well. >> Okay. Uh

166with the first group that I went out with, have we captured everything that was discussed and then we'll come back to this group? >> Yes. I just wanted to clarify for so if there is a another issue topic interest that comes up in a triad meeting or something else moving forward can we just add it to like a table list or a look at next year >> type of yes >> document so that it can be captured but can't be added now further because we're too far along in the process as of today. Okay, >> agreed. Well, I think an unintended outcome of of that of putting something like that in place would be because they didn't have to bring this to meet and confer. They could have just made the decision and moved forward

167with it and said, "We're doing this." And so, I appreciate it being brought forward to meet and confer so that we can hear about it. And I think if we say like, "Well, you can't bring it forward," then they could easily say, "Okay, we're going to do it." You know, if if we've done the research, we're going to make this decision. We we've heard that that happens in other districts. >> That's a trust, but >> I don't know that. Let's I want to be careful about that because it it can right if if you don't if it's how it's been sort of thing. Um I generally think people are not trying to do that, right? Sometimes, I mean, I've made mistakes where I didn't bring it to when I was a principal, forgot to run

168it through the committee, not because I was trying to usurp anyone's power. I just flat out was busy and forgot to do it and then had to go back. So, I just think this is intended to help build trust between all of the groups. I do not believe based on what I've heard and the little bit I know from having been here a few times is that this was done in a malicious intent. Um I think the idea was to try to help employees. Um and I think that's where that came from. But I want to go back to the the inside I'll call you the inside caucus group. Is there anyone else that has anything to share um besides Katie? >> Eve. >> Yeah. Um I think I think it's really >> sorry. >>

169I think it's really important that everybody's clear on the process so that we can continue to move forward. I am feeling a little um I guess frustrated is the accurate word. Um because I feel like we're spending a lot of time talking about the process and each time we meet we're spending a lot of time talking about the process and we're not getting things done. And so I'm feeling frustrated with the lack of um I don't understanding or that we can't be like okay we get it that it's different. Change is hard now. let's make decisions because what's going to happen is we're we're now way behind schedule. We still haven't gotten to the compensation compression piece. We're still talking about something that should have been rather easy that like either this is a benefit

170that we're moving forward with or we're not. But now we're having multiple caucuses and we're not able to get the work done and now we're going to have to either have more meetings or not get any decisions made and it just feels like we're spinning our wheels and and that frustrates me. >> Thank you. >> Sure. Just grab a microphone. We have talked a few times about this being a new process. So it is a process for uh the district side. Also um it is not typical for triad to have these topics come up very often. We have a very proactive payroll person who has made substantial changes and recommendations uh that we have implemented. One of those implementations was changing teacher pay because we could legally do that. and she said, "Why are we

171paying teachers 3 days um when they are entitled to be paid a full paycheck when they return on their contract?" So, those are the types of things that come forward in Triad um and that we discuss. They're the mechanics of working a payroll system and what we can legally and not legally do. And this item just came up under the guise of our guidelines or guardrails and also from the um the board direction to look for revenue sources. So it wasn't an attempt to not bring something appropriately. We don't have a mechanism to bring things to meet and confer. we don't have like a a deadline of well make sure like if we had had something like what Kelly's asking for uh we would have said uh oh well this would be a great option

172to bring in uh but we've missed the deadline to bring to bring things forward and so I apologize that it came forward in that way without an opportunity for people to ask the deeper questions and have the conversation on it. So if it had come up several meetings ago when we were in groups and it was something on the table, some of these questions could have been asked ahead of time and then we could have brought that information with it. So it was, you know, kind of sticky and I just appreciate you guys listening, but there was no intent in any way. Um it is that we're actively looking for ways to save the district money to bring in revenues in a very very dark time of declining enrollment. And it and we just have

173to put our our eyes on that like uh and so it's happening at every level in every meeting. It doesn't matter what meeting it is. It's two people talking by the water cooler. Uh what could we do to save the money? What could we do to bring in more money? What can we do? What can we do? Um and like I said in operations, we have opportunities uh when we find out these things. And then we wanted to bring that forward because we felt like it was a benefit and it really lived in meet confer. So, it was an idea that our fantastic payroll person had and we said, "Oh, that sounds great. Let's take it to meet and confer and let's let's see." And we didn't dig deep into it. It It's something that

174other districts do. It's very common. It's not outside the box thinking. It's just something that's that's pretty common in other districts. And we thought, why aren't we doing it? Let's take that to meet and confer. So again, that was the only intent and the only reason that that discussion came up is because every single one of us as an individual should be looking for ways to save the district money or to bring in revenue and that is a direct uh um guideline from our board uh in our meet and confer process. So that's kind of how it came about. I I just want you guys to understand we're not doing things in those meetings. Those it's a working meeting to take care of working things. Um and we can absolutely have deadlines to bring things

175forward. What I would say is that if there is something that isn't of emergency nature, a legal nature, all of those things, there's no way to do that, right? Or if something is just so whatever, uh then we want the ability to bring it to this group. This group might say, "We missed the deadline or this thing is so important, we want to talk about it." I mean, I feel like you can have those conversations. >> I just wanted to be both sides like both sides like so. Say for example, CA has an idea they would like to bring with us. I have no problem with try I would like to know where things are coming from beforehand, but like the ideas like if there was discussion behind closed doors like that's something to try

176to admit on we discuss. Also, I want it to be both sides. So if CA in one of our meetings with our members, we come up with something. We also want that option to say >> there's nothing that says we can. Well, we >> I I think what we have to do is moving forward, right? Is it because you did already come up with things through the survey, the initial survey back in August, September, October, whenever that was. That's the one I'm talking about. And you had you had overarching areas. So you had people put in some ideas, options if you will, positions, and then we take some of that and try to work it into the category of salary, the category of benefits, the category of working conditions. And so we did that. What

177we can be better about is saying, okay, as of this date, nothing else comes forward. Okay, and that's is what I'm hearing. Here's one more question that I have for Vanessa or I don't know who's the right person. If we were to how soon do you need the decision on this? >> We don't. So, so like if you >> needed more information and we table this and we come back in three weeks when we >> is that does that work? >> And does that give HR finance enough time to say how much are we spending on retirement payouts or or payouts every year? >> 8,000 last year. >> It would have saved $28,000 last year. >> Last year. One year. She was able to pull one year real quick and send it to me in

178an email. Okay. And that number would fluctuate year after year depending on how many people retire, right? If it's a high retirement, it could be more. If it's less, it could be less. But in general, okay, >> last year was 13 people. >> And then Vanessa, did we get the answer to Ariel's question about the um >> she's she's still working on that one. I haven't gotten the answer for that one. Okay. >> But if But again, I get that we brought this and there was no prior warning and no thought process to be able to we wanted to bring the presentation in. >> There was no malicious intent. I think it's >> so I mean I don't think it's unreasonable to say table it while everybody gets their questions and then we answer the

179question. >> Is everybody okay if we table this until our next meeting so we can get some of these things answered and then we'll revisit it then. Okay. We're still >> and and we will definitely pay attention if we want to do that and set deadlines and you know it it's just trying to >> bring the good stuff. Right. >> Okay. >> All right. >> And can I just hear from you Alexis because there is still some seemingly some confusion. Ariel focus in here. Um, any group at any point can bring options to the table outside of the survey even as we've seen as long as it's within this deadline that we decide to set up. >> Any group can bring an option, >> an interest, an idea of of something. >> I I would

180maybe if you again, let's say we're going to talk about benefits today, right? You've got insurance. you got a committee that has looked at this, they've got some ideas. Um, they're going to put that on the table. Now, if this group were to add another option that requires them to go back, then that's different, right? That would take more time and I think there's a deadline. But your your job after you see that survey is to say, okay, we saw that compensation was the number one concern. So within so when we are looking at options, right? Right. I'm looking through this lens of what I got from the feedback on the survey. If we talk about the workload one, you guys generated a bunch of options. What we decided was we weren't going to bring

181any other working condition options at that time. Remember, we went around, I asked for consensus. We looked like we had tackled things on the survey. So, at that point, we're done. We came to consensus around that. But your job as representatives at the table are to generate options that address the issue that was identified. What I would be careful what you should not be doing is because you somebody said it. You walk out of here and if 20 people come up with 20 more options and you say we want to revisit that and do that then you're right. will never get done. >> Yes. >> That's why when you're here, you do the survey, you gather the information, you represent, you get in, we get in the small groups, the whole group, and we make

182the decision. We we brainstorm options to address the issue that are aligned to the interest. >> That's what the process is kind of for me is breaking down because I have no problem with the tri again. Sorry. I have no problem with the triad having meetings come ideas and presenting it to us. But also at the same time, I think if CA is meeting with our members and we do meet once a month, if we're having one of our meetings during this time of being conferred and we come up with something and we would like to present our recommendation, I feel like it should be both sides should have that option. It shouldn't be heavily one side over the other. >> But I I would just I don't know that it's heavily one side. Now

183we had this that's one. When you are having those meetings when you meet in the first part of the year CA you are having those meetings and you're asking questions and you're trying to get information about what the issues when you send the survey that is information for you all. So you have that to look at. But if you're going to keep going back and asking more options, more options, more options, we're never going to finish. >> I'm not saying asking for more options. I was saying if something comes up in one of our meetings, >> which is true. That's what happened with Triad, right? Something came up and then here it was presented. >> I think you have to think about what we're talking about. >> Right. Right. No, that's true. And I get

184that that's nuance, but that's why I'm going back to like a hard deadline. Doesn't matter. If the idea is brilliant, it's past the deadline and that's it. >> Yeah. I would like to hear the brilliant ideas for tribe. I also think teachers who have their own like working group because the CA is a working group. It's association. They also have great ideas that every once in a while pop up. >> All right. I'm going to put an end to this >> conversation. I think we have uh discussed this enough. Is everybody okay? Do we want to I asked Joel and I'm asking Vanessa that I don't hear that there are any other things coming other than what we have on the agenda for today. >> Because what I'm going to ask is to say, okay,

185we're going to put a deadline today. We're done with any new things. >> We have another item uh that we wanted to present to you. um it has to do with the number of paid holidays that a certain group of um staff get and it's very detrimental. We wanted to share information and then just ask if it is some if it's an interest of the group to consider or look at additional paid holidays for that group or not. And so again, if we had had a deadline perhaps, I mean, we've actually known about this one for a while, but we weren't getting into compensation on the first few meetings. And so that's why this one came uh in alignment with this and the insurance and it just made sense to bring it um as an

186item. So I can show that information today and uh show the impacts of that uh holiday uh and it shows everybody's paid holidays and you know does that thing. Um or we can table it and uh put it next year. I would like to put it on as an official tabled item and uh discuss which groups it impacts and get that on the record to that whether we do or don't talk about it. >> Yes, because we didn't have a deadline in place prior to this. So, it is kind of another item. But if we shared it with you guys paid holidays, did anybody do it? Okay. Um but we would like to share the information with you and then maybe make a choice to table or not table. Would that be okay for the

187group? I mean, >> well, I just I just want to ask like I I'm a little nerv I understand the need for a deadline, but it also makes me nervous because you might have things like this that come forward and certainly we all acknowledge Triad could make that decision without us. I personally also appreciate that you guys are willing it to confer for more um >> visibility and discussion and just transparency. So, I don't want to necessarily thwart that. Um, but I also want to give you guys the acknowledgement that you have the freedom to do that. So, but if this is something that would help a group of employees, I don't know that I want to say because we had this arbitrary deadline, we now are not considering moving forward with something we know

188would be good for an employee group unnecessarily. Right? So, I I don't know. I feel like well and I think maybe here >> before we go down this rabbit hole >> there's two different >> do you the the particular thing you're talking about how soon do you need to know and when does the board need to approve because you got a backwards map from there right if this were hypothetically if this were a teacher contract thing which I'm guessing you're you're going to be doing those pretty soon you would have already had to have known in this case is this is this something that if you got some information today and then we bring it to March 26 that we potentially make a recommendation and if that's the only other thing then we're done we're

189done with that we're done with precision and then the other three items four items we have for today >> and and I want to quantify it a little bit too we do the work before we bring it so the data is pulled the dollars are assigned the information is we don't just walk and go we think that it'd be a great idea to pay someone paid holidays. So I want to say that when we bring something we bring it with the backup of the data to share with the committee. So we're not just bringing an idea we're bringing the work. >> So that's kind of different. And then also Joel >> I was thinking in terms of the pay for performance information. So the the uh committee has been working on that plan a revised

190plan for the whole year. uh we're bringing forward what the option is that the committee is recommending to go out for approval by teachers because teachers have to approve the plan by 70%. And the reason meet and confer is part of this is that there's a recommendation to increase the pay for performance payout not only for certified but also for classified. So that's another example of something that we know has a compensation impact uh or or lens that needs to be brought to meet and confirm for uh this group to come to consensus about whether or not we want to use the funds that are available through the classroom site fund or through M whichever one it's funded out of whether it's classified or certified but what does that look like moving forward so then

191we can move forward with starting to get feedback from teachers about that particular plan. So, >> so when do you need the information about the holiday pay? >> Um, >> can you can you present information today? This group may come up with a question or two that might need more research >> if it comes back for a decision on the 26th. Is that okay? >> Yes. >> I think it's just the work that the payroll department has to do to put in the the pay calendar. >> Got it. >> Right. And we may have to look at uh governing board policy because I think there is something in there uh for a holiday schedule, but I I need to go and double check. >> So we would have to do the work to do a

192policy change also on top of it. And so it would take a minute. >> Yeah. But there isn't a deadline to so we definitely could share information and then >> put classified >> and evaluate at the next meeting that we're talking about holiday. >> Is everyone okay with that? evaluating, hearing the information about the paid holidays and then evaluating at the next meeting >> with the knowledge that we didn't have deadlines before. If we have deadlines going into next year, it'll look a lot different. >> Right. >> Okay. So, because this is a classified thing, those notices go out in May. So, we should have enough time between now board me board recommendation >> and we're not trying to change a schedule or number of days. It's just >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> Can we

193come to consensus on that though? Is everyone okay with hearing the information about the paid holidays today and then making an evaluated? >> Well, I it sounds like paid holidays today, precision retirement, getting some more information and that's it. Correct. >> Everything else pay for for we're handling that today. >> Well, can we come to consensus on the higher thing of whether we think we need a deadline or not? Well, that's what I'm setting right now to say. Deadline today is that nothing nothing else is going to move forward other than what we have on the agenda today. This holiday pay thing, which we're going to get some information today, uh review it at our next meeting and then there should not be any new things after this moment. >> Okay. I think for that.

194>> So to your point, Katie and Kelly and and everyone else, are we okay that nothing new other than what's on today's agenda? >> No. No new friends as I we'll move forward. We'll discuss the extra holiday pay, make get some information about precision, bring that back, and then uh wrap those items up. We're still going to be talking. So, I'm going to table working workload thing today just because we're way behind uh and because it's not going to have a fiscal impact because I've got to address that and we'll bring that to the next meeting as well. >> Everybody okay with that? Do we have consensus as presented? >> So, we're coming to consensus if today is the last day we can bring something forth >> benefits >> for benefits. Just benefits >> for

195benefits we're and working condition because we already closed that door and I would say compensation because you have all your information today. >> We haven't talked about it. >> Right. >> That's what I'm saying. We're going to talk about that. >> So those will be >> correct. >> And it may be you say we don't like anything you're put in front of us. Go back and do some more. I'm going to sums up the nothing new coming forward for um workload and benefits but not for compensation today. >> But so after we do compensation then can we come to another consensus or do we have to make the consistent? >> You're going to review the options today for compensation. So it if we can get through it timewise then we should be we should complete

196compensation. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm willing to thumbs that up after we talk about it. But at this moment, I'm willing to thumbs up the one about benefits and work. >> So, can we review it after we finish compensations process? Okay. Okay. >> Is everyone >> everybody okay with that? >> We'll take one more look at compensation. >> Okay. All right. Everybody take a deep breath. Let me just check uh time. Let HR finance out. >> Do you have any H uh Joel? Do you have anything you want to update with the group? I know information was emailed out the other day. Items in the shared folder updated, but if anything you want to highlight. >> Yes. >> All right. So, um couple of things that were brought forward. Let me do this. >>

197So, this information is in the spreadsheet. So, hopefully you are already a already able to access that spreadsheet and take a look. Um, the things specifically that I wanted to make sure that you're aware are there. uh the staffing survey results. I know that uh it has been an interest in the past to bring uh the percentages of retain uh uh retire, transfer or remain in the district. Uh so that information is there. If you want to see the comparison to last year, there's another tab for last year. So this is based on the staffing survey that went out in January. I keep not knowing where I am. Sorry. Uh transportation. All right. The next one is uh pay for performance, but we have time set aside for that, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. So

198what I'll show you here is that there's a link to the recommendation for pay for performance if you wanted to preview that. The first screenshot is the current certified pay for performance plan percentages and then the proposed changes are listed under there. The proposed change does include an increase in both the classified and certified pay for performance. So moving classified from $500 to a,000. Uh that's um a jump for that group, that employee group. The certified would be an increase of $1,000 and potential bonus u increases to SOFG aligned outcomes. So we can I'll go a little bit more deeper into that when we get to that point, but that's just sort of a quick orientation to that. There's also a link to the slide deck that um kind of gives a little bit more

199detailed information about what those changes are and what kind of the thinking was of the committee. Uh stay interview data. Stay interviews were conducted in January, February. Uh this is a summary of that stay interview process that's throughout the district classified and certified. Uh there is some analysis of comparison to last year and you should still have access to last year's document if you wanted to read that document independently. Uh and this was a request of the meet and confer in the bargain agreement to bring this information to you annually and that's that's it from HR. >> That's it. Yep. >> So >> because we have we have paid pay for performance separated out. So >> um we're up against lunch right now. So, Vanessa, I'm hoping we can do a a quick overview of

200finance update when we get back, unless people want to delay lunch for 15 minutes and hear from finance. >> We can delay for 15 minutes. >> Everybody good? If we push lunch to 11:45, 12:45 so we can do quick financial update. You good? find out what the group wants. >> Um, we did a board study session uh going through a budget building on kind of a deeper level than we had before and that was streamed. So, everyone has the opportunity to go and uh take a look at that. The board was a little punchy. It was about 3 hours of deep dive into budgets, uh, the numbers, where they come from, how we track them, um, how carry forward works, how fund balance works, what it's done, how we make each number happen on that

201budget slide where we say the you take the budget as is, and then you say what we think is going to go up and what we think is going to go down for the next year when we project. And so, I mean, I can go into those details. takeaways are uh did take the 750,000 to the board and um it wasn't theirs to approve or not approve at that point in time. Uh it just explain the process of how we develop that number to bring here to meet and confer. Uh in addition to the uh continued 200,000 um that allows us to take care of things throughout the year uh that come up. So I mean I think that's the important takeaway in the financials. Um the other thing was we had a big discussion

202on the medical insurance and um I mean I'll just we had a good conversation about it. Um how much the district does cover. It's uh five million approximately. Um and then what the district's portion of the increase this year would cost. How we budgeted for that increase. We kind of got, you know, word um even last year where they said this is not common to go this many years and not have big increases. So, we knew a big increase was coming and we budgeted for that. We do have some cost savings there. I did let the board know that. Um the board did express a couple of the board members did express concerns of the district and whether that was um looking out for the district's future fiscal health to continue to cover the employees

203portion of it and wanted to make sure that we had some discussions on what that looks like and what that looks like moving forward. Um when it comes to these percentages of increase, we're anticipating the next four to five years to have consistent increases. And so what does that look like for our staff or our employees? That's why we did the benefit comparison to show how we cover benefits compared to the districts around us uh and what portions we cover versus them so that we could have these conversations about the medical insurance uh increase. So, I'll be bringing some of that information when we uh need to talk about that item and make some decisions of the plan components, the cost, and then how much the cost is to employees and how we deal with

204that. So, that's pretty much the only finance stuff that I have that's uh update. The rest is just bringing you guys numbers uh this afternoon. Any questions about a finance update? Because I mean I could go through the whole sheet again about the enrollment and we lost 500 kids and I mean I just we've we've expressed that in many many different settings and different meetings and what that actually means and how we plan to recover for next year and also uh looking forward nothing um looks great but our transportation plan has some silver lining. So >> yeah, >> Vanessa, can you remind the group of what the total budget impact was uh with your declining enrollment? Like how many dollars? And it's not that clean. I mean, I'd have to go I I would say

205yeah, it's like two over $2 million. Um but we we buffered it a little. So um staffing took a hit into this year's expenditures but we had savings in budget planning. >> Okay. >> So budget planning mitigated it so that it wasn't more than the 2 million. >> Um I I guess that's the best easiest way. So is about 2 millionish um uh was the the end result hit. That should have been worse, but we had not as big of a decrease in the budget as we had an increase in the staffing. So, we were able to buffer the staffing for a year with our fund balance reserves. So, we were able to make sure that we continued our staffing through the year as opposed to doing any kind of cuts mid year or do

206anything weird or we just had that planning time which is what the fund balance reserve is intended for. so that then we could, you know, ensure that our staffing uh for this next year will accommodate the loss of enrollment that we had this year. >> Any other questions for Vanessa about budget stuff? Budget info, >> budget, budget numbers. >> It's just not a good situation and it's not good in any of the times that you're in a declining enrollment situation. it just none of it's fun and and um you know but I think we have a a support from our board to keep investing in ourselves and that's why we keep ma bringing the dollars to the table and and kind of protecting that in the process of budget so that we can continue to

207bring dollars it's not as many dollars as we want to bring um but I made a very big um component we also did a an activity where board members had to kind of talk about how you invest in yourself um and invest in your future and that the biggest portion of our expenditures is our salaries and benefits. So if you're going to invest in yourselves, it's salaries and benefits. And that's uh why I think I continue to have support even though the board members do get concerned that we're bringing any dollars to the table. Um and it's kind of like a duck and cover. But if we do that, I don't think we'll be able to stay relevant and we want to stay ahead of it. And we have some dollars. we continue to have

208some dollars uh because of the prior year's planning before I even got here and the things that I've continued since I got here. So, um I I don't know how else to take three hours and put it in 10 minutes, but those were the things that we talked about and it came out very clear that it is important for our district future health to invest in ourselves as much as we feel we can and not put the district in fiscal danger. And that's what I think I was able to prove to the board to support bringing the 750,000 to the table um despite concerns about future cuts and future decline. Don't know we can do it every year, but it is my intent to try. Okay, if that is it, then uh it's 11:40. We'll

209see everybody back here at 12:40 sharp, please. So we can try to make up for some lost time. started since it is 12:42 I think. Um, I just want to touch on the agenda because I'm shifting it around, but I want to um just say something about the workload issue that we were working on last week or not last week, last month and uh options that were generated. And um I just we're going to reset that process, but we're not going to do it today um because of having to shift some things around. Um you know, we generated options to uh try to address workload situation, but I'm not using this an excuse. I was sick that day when I left there. I got I went home and went to bed and didn't get up

210for a couple of days. And so I don't know if that's what happened to me that day, but you know, Vanessa had done a presentation about the financial situation, the budget, the declining enrollment, and then when options were starting to be generated, a lot of them were not costneutral. And so as a result, and they also required some more information. So um in order to sort of be efficient, uh we sent out the survey to get some more information from you all. And so we're going to revisit it, but we're going to look through the lens of costneutral options when we come back to it um in a couple of weeks. But I just wanted to say, you know, look, that that was on me. We need to reset around that particular area because a

211lot of those would have been uh adding to your budget situation and I didn't put that parameter there. So we'll address that moving forward, but I just want to say that um today. So on the 26th, I think is the next time we get together, we'll revisit those options and and try to bring that full circle. Uh but now we're going to jump into insurance. So, if Joel and Vanessa are ready, we're going to we've already you had the presentation from Valley Schools uh management group and they presented the state of the state, if you will, and then I think we got to take a look at a couple things because some decisions need to be made today, if I understand correctly, so that we can address compensation. >> Sorry, Alexis, real quick. I know

212we're missing a couple of people. I don't know if we didn't go over time constraints. Did anyone know if they have um if anyone wasn't coming back for any reason? Is there meetings or >> I had not heard that. >> Okay. >> I just want to check. >> Oh, he's coming this afternoon. >> Okay. And nobody knows about Ivon and >> neighbor. >> Oh, okay. And neighbors. >> Neighbor might be driving. I know he sometimes has to. Okay. Okay. Just checking. Thank you. Okay. you blankets a part of presentation. >> Did your daughter have the baby? >> Um, yes. And now I have a a third one coming too. >> So, >> is that a real blanket or is that >> Yeah, it's a blanket. They put that on a blanket. Anyone want to guess

213who was in charge of making the blanket? Which of the three adult children was in got oldest? >> Who is the top with the biggest face? put her dogs and then everybody else got upset. We didn't know putting our dogs was an option and they all wanted to put their pets, too. And uh yeah, I got in trouble for that. They got in trouble. Not me. I just enjoyed it. >> Yeah, the blanket. I now have two of those. It's really cool. >> So, the second one had the pictures of the adults on it. >> The the oldest up top. She's my oldest and that's her wife and her wife is pregnant now. And then those are their two that's Willow and um >> two dogs. >> Yeah, those the two dogs up top. And

214then um and then the the middle section is my middle daughter. And that's her with my four-year-old grandbaby. Uh the baby that was in the belly is now four months old. She's in the red. And then the bottom is my son. He's my youngest. And that's him and his girlfriend. They were the ones who were the most put out because they didn't get to put Bentley. Another grand puffers. So I have some grandfathers and grandkids that did not get the opportunity to showcase them the blanket. >> So you have two of the same blanket or is the second blanket has the picture of all the dogs on it? >> No, the second blanket is an older blanket that has all my kids on it from a like about five years ago. And then this is

215my newest blanket they made me and I don't have the other pets on there. They were all upset on the bottom that they didn't know that putting pets was an option >> because the oldest just said the pictures you want to put on mom. >> And it is a very cool blanket. I'm just not sure what to do with it. It's weird, you know, when you cuddle up. >> Cuddle to the baby belly. I don't know. >> They know you love it. That's the only gift you're gonna get every year. >> I honestly I don't mind. I mean, I don't mind >> really. Yeah. I just gave me a good idea for something to do with them. So, >> uh, all right. Go do the insurance stuff real quick. >> Um, I think, uh, I

216just want to go back real quick on the insurance and talk about what our choices were real quick. And where was that? Let's see. Plan your new. There it is. >> Real quick, Roxanna put the sign in in the chat. So, don't forget to sign in. Thanks, Rox. All right. So, oh, that's tiny. Um, what's the thing I can do? I can just make it bigger, >> right? Do that. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. So, um, looking at this first slide in here, I want to point out a couple numbers. Let's, um, see what 150 does. That's better. Okay. So, um, our prior year cost was, uh, for the district total estimated was 5 million. Uh, with the renewal and a 13.4% increase, it would, uh, bring the district's total cost to 5.7 million. Um, it

217then shows the different increases and how many people are on the different choices that we have. So obviously the biggest um insurance bucket is the choice base. This is the the one that most of us get like the single 100% pay. You don't uh or Yeah. Um and it's 100% covered by the district. So then it goes into the cost of each one of those plans and what they would increase to. So this plan where those increased dollars sit in each one of the plans. Does that make sense? So that's with the 13.4% increase. Uh and this is just what was coming. And we knew this was coming. We talked about this last year. When we got the little bit of 4% increase, uh we said, "Wow, we were expecting a little bit more." And

218they said, "Don't worry, that's coming." And we are slated to see increases for the next four to five years of some upper level. um they they can't obviously tell us. Uh but this year when I went back to them and said, "Hey, I'm budget planning for a 15% increase. I think I'm going to be like really crazy." And he said, "That's a good job." And I went, "Oh no." So when they came back with 13.4, I went, "Oh." Um so we were in the ballpark there based on uh what insurance trends. There's a lot that goes into this. We go to um a session every year to talk about in a deep level how this occurs in a self-insured. These are our dollars and our dollars working for us. We do put dollars in here.

219Anything um uh we do a prepaid so that we can maximize that when we put that $5 million in there. Um we put it in first so that it'll earn some in interest over the years. And we've been maximizing that. that also allows us to try to mitigate our increases. Okay. Um so those were the renewals. Then they came back and they said um we were like, "Wow, that's a really big hit." And they took a look at some options. They said one of the things that they've been talking to some of their other uh clients about was that the um and that's just like the detail that he shared on his presentation. and I just kind of want to continue moving on on the the impact to the district and the staff. So then

220they came back and said, "Well, one of the choices is that you can start doing plan adjustments." Um they we have discussions with them and we're like, "Well, what's the biggest um bang?" As opposed to really going in fine detail. We rely on their expertise to give us the best plan, uh the most current information, the best options for our staff when it comes to co-pays and what's covered and what's not covered. And um so that's what we use them for. And what they came back as a recommendation is they said the thing that could probably impact the cost to your district and staff the most is to increase your maximum out of pocket. And I don't know if his explanation I don't know it just seemed like it got a little wonky. So I

221want to try to explain it in my words. When you have an insurance you have um a premium that you pay every month and that's what we're talking about that would increase for staff. And then within your plan you have things that are covered and not covered. So your wellch check when you go for an annual is 100% covered. You don't have to pay it. But when you go and do other things or you're sick or you go to the hospital or you have specialty services, it starts incurring what's called your deductible. And depending upon what your deductible is, let's say it's 500. Um once that means you're 100% paying for whatever those services are, 100%'s coming out of your pocket up into the deductible. So if it's 500, you pay it all until you

222get to 500. Once you get to 500, your co- insurance kicks in and we have an 8020 plan, which means everything you have done at that point. Insurance covers 80%, you pay 20% out of your pocket. So when we talk about maximum out of pocket, that's the distance that you pay the 820. So you pay 8020 until you reach maximum out of pocket for the year and then after that insurance covers 100% of it after that. So, the adjustment that they recommended to help have cost savings of how much the insurance plan costs us to have in general was to increase the maximum out of pocket, which means increasing how long you pay 8020 up until a certain threshold and then you would pay they would pay 100% after that. Does that make sense? Which

223number we're talking about? We're not talking about the deductible. So, the deductible affects pretty much every person. If you go and get any medical services outside your well checks, you're probably going to be paying deductible. So when we talked about deductible, that's the most impactful to the most people when it comes to insurance. Maximum out of pocket, that's not typically most people. That's a handful of situations. So it is the least impact to the most amount of people to do a change in your maximum out of pocket. And what that does changing that maximum out of pocket from and that's what I'm trying to find Joel do you remember here it was maximum out of pocket here it is plan year 2526 it was 5,000 uh and 8,000 for the buyup and um that that

224is an individual versus a family amount deductible was 500 to a,000 deductible is another way that you can manage your insurance cost to make it cheaper if you do your car insurance you can play with all those numbers your deductible, what they cover. Um, so again, not touching the deductible, that stays the same. Uh, the choice base, which is where most of our staff uh live on their insurance choices, the maximum is 5,000 and 10,000. So that is the 13 uh.4% increase and it it's um we've talked about that number a few times. Okay. Then if you take a look at the other option, it was to move from the 4,000 and 8,000 and increase that to uh 6,000 and 12,000. It looks like they're doing it for buyup and for choice base. I wonder

225if that's a typo. I don't know. Let me go back up here real quick. I didn't dig in as close. Yeah. 4,000 8,000 5,000 10,000. So their recommendation is to increase that maximum out of pocket to 6,000 and 12,000. So $1,000 increase and a $2,000 increase. And what that means is then you pay an extra 1,000 of the 8020. And then what that did was brought us down to a 9.99% increase. Uh and so that change went from the and 77,000 over to 505. So it's a percentage 9.99%. So that's the first kind of topic is uh talking with this group about whether we should move that maximum out of pocket. um it makes a really big difference to the district's amount that we have to pay and makes a difference to what employees have

226to pay. So all of this information is in there. You can dig into um the so let's say it's an choice base and it's an employee with family. You can see the difference of change of how much it would change uh an increase an increase of $97 and an increase of $109 for the district. ER is employer cost E is employee cost when you look at the chart. >> Bless you. The dollar amount is an increase for 9.99% of 505,711 versus $677,856. And then you can see the individual plan effect on these charts that look like this. So the cost to the employee on an employee child cho choice base um monthly was 356 for the employee would then go to 404 for the employee. It was 8.29 for the district. It goes to 9.40

227for the district. That's a monthly a monthly contribution, not the annual. >> This is that insurance packet that's in the link. >> It's right here on the meet and confer 2627. Plan your renewal. Okay. is that the first um decision they need to make is about the max out of pocket increase. >> And um yes, and this is I went ahead and put that on a spreadsheet because we love us a spreadsheet. Let's make that bigger. Let's get rid of this. Okay. So the district cost in that scenario is um 458,000 and change on the 9.9. If we choose to not change the maximum out of pocket, it's 615. The employees increase portion of that would be 46,000. This is a total. Again, you'd have to refer back to that um is it there? here

228to see the actual changes for employees. And that's going to be this box right here, E change. And you'd look on this side for the 9.9. And then up here is the Oh, that was 13.4 there. So for uh again this is really I think this is what really speaks to employees is that last year I paid what I paid and this next year under 13.4% 4% I pay $89 more, $47 more, $130 more. And then the district side over there is um what the district covers of that portion for that employees choice. Down here, when you go back to that chart again, again, it's the EE change that's important when you're thinking about employees cost. And here when we go to the 9.9% instead, which they rolled to 10, um it's 66, 35, and

22997. So those are the comparisons 66 3597 or 8947130. >> So no change to the deductible. The rate goes up for the employee. Did I is that correct? >> No change to the maximum out of pocket. >> Right. >> I want to be really careful because deductible is something totally different. >> No change to the max out of pocket. If you don't change anything, the cost to the employee >> does everybody. >> It's going up no matter what. >> It's going up. It's just a matter of how much. >> Okay. Does everybody understand that? >> So, if you go to the 9.9, the increase for the employee is less. Is that correct? Is that an accurate statement? And if you take all of those dollars and add them up to be an an annual total

230versus the individual plan totals, I just want to make sure you know where the individual plan totals are because you guys would be the ones talking about the change. And so when somebody says, I'm I'm you know, I have I'm an employee. I pay for this and I have children or I have a spouse or have a family, the employee single non buyup would still say no change. Well, wait, no, it doesn't. Wait, let me look at it. I don't want to say that. Let's go back. Yes, it is still zero for the employee single coverage that we cover 100% if you don't do the buyup and you're a single employee with no no dependence. We also cover a larger amount and we showed you guys that on that benefit comparison to the other districts.

231we showed that we cover a bigger percentage of some of these buckets. So, we cover more dollars of the dependent care than we do the single. Um, one of the mechanisms that other districts use is that like if it if the district pays $700 for the single for them to have a 100% covered, then they take that 700 and they apply it equally to every category. Um, we don't do that here because we're self-funded and we're trying to increase the people that make our insurance less, which is kids. We want kids to be in our program. We want younger families to be in our program. It helps reduce our cost. So, that's why we cover more. >> Children on their account, >> be an increase. And >> it would either be an increase of 9.99%,

232let's just say 10. Can we all agree to just say 10? Thank you. 10 or 13.4%. So that's the first question. Is >> they pay for patient or how much paying? >> It's for their premium, which is the monthly payment that they make to have insurance. So you pay a premium to have insurance and then you pay a different premium depending upon your choice whether you cover a spouse children and that's the monthly amount. They they do them in monthly instead of the whole annual cost. So you can see that that is a monthly change. So right now an employee pays >> 754. If you're an employee with a spouse, um you would you pay $665.78 right now. That's the E column there in 2526. Next year with no changes and no decisions, you would

233pay $754.97. That's an in monthly increase cost of $89 monthly. You can extrapulate that over the 24 pays. I think we take it out 24 pays >> our single parents in this district and their cancer on this insurance and >> do not bring home enough of their salary. >> Well, right now I'm sharing information and then I think we'll show share the stories to help us make the decisions. Exactly. I will point out for the last I believe it's 5 years we have not put any of the cost of insurance increases onto staff. So the district has absorbed the cost. So let's think about that. So, if the insurance cost $5 million, that's how much the district is paying, $5 million, and our budget was $48 million, that was5 million out of 48. Our budget

234is now $43 million. The 5 million hasn't changed because the costs have gone up. So, we're still paying $5 million and now we only have a budget of 43. So, it is very impactful. I don't see any way around that. We do navigate that cost, but it might not be responsible to continue to 100% cover employees portion of this when we see that we're going to have these increases in the near future to the at least the next four to five years. It's something to think about. I agree with you. Insurance is not affordable. It's not. I agree with you 100%. It is what happens though. Um, so anyways, and the cost is going up for the district, which means less dollars on the table for salaries. I mean, you have to navigate it. It's

235a conversation. Okay. So, the facts are it goes up 9 10% or 13.4. That's the first decision on the table. Do we want to go up 10% or do we want to go up 13.4%. When we do that, it changes these numbers, right? So, increase the maximum out of pocket or don't. maximum out of pocket we felt was the least uh impactful on most staff and it was the biggest percentage discount when we asked them to give us a scenario of some way to get this cost down. Um that was what they brought back. Other things they looked at did not bring us as many much savings. So this was the least impactful and the most savings. That's why we brought this one forward. Okay then. Oh no, thing went away. Hang on one second.

236Okay, that is so not true. Okay, so that's that's just information and I wanted you to understand which portion of the insurance we're talking about changing. So that's on the table for you guys to decide to go with the 13.4 or go with the nine knowing that the way to make that happen is to increase that by a th00and and by 2,000. So it's a longer time that somebody would be in the 8020 situation. Uh but they would still get to a maximum out of pocket and then insurance kicks in 100%. It doesn't change the deductible. Deductible is still 500 and whatever it was. Okay, everybody clear on that one? Okay, so then when it comes to dollars, uh, let's see. All right, I have that up here. So this equals the 505711. This equals

237the 67785. This is the district cost. This is the employee cost for five years. Has it been five, Joel? I think when I did a history look back, I think it was five years. We have not put a portion of this on the district and we've actually made some changes. Changed our insurance, changed the way we do insurance so that we could make sure that we kept that for our employees as long as possible with the knowledge we knew increases were coming. Okay. So, I wanted to put something out there. There's employee medical cost. You see what that cost's going to be. We can just do it this year. and we tell employees it's either 10% or it's 13.4% increase. We could be thinking forward that we might not be in a situation to 100%

238cover um staff uh or that it would be fiscally prudent. But the thing that I'm kind of falling back on this year is that I budgeted for the 15% out of the budget. Now, obviously, every dollar we put back into it is going to rebuild our fund balance that we had to use this year for the staffing. So, it's not free money on the table, but there is some opportunity this year to make a decision. When I talked to the board, the board has all this information, too. I told you before lunch, I'm not seeing a lot of support for just 100% covering again this year. I'm not saying that there isn't and that's just a couple of voices. It is what you decide in this room. So, I need to know if you're going

239to make it the bigger number or the smaller number. And then I need to know if it's being covered or not being covered or shared. These are the types of things for you to talk about and decide and let me know so that then I can take those numbers. I gave you some more amounts there just to it's I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Please, just cuz I put a number there, I'm trying to visually show you some numbers. So, I'm visually showing if we covered half of it, that's how much the cost would be to the employee. It'd be half of the $89. It'd be $40 instead of 90. It'd be 45. So, again, right, wrong, however we feel, those are the decisions we need. We need to know maximum out

240of pocket and what to do with that. Does it do we have a shared cost knowing that next year we might not have some flexibility and we might have to 100% put the increases to the employees? What's best for our employees to ease them into these increases? The district will not be able to cover them. So I mean I I these are just thoughts and there's no right or wrong and I don't have I don't have an opinion. I'm giving you information. Is there any other information I can give you to help you guys start this conversation? Make sure I understand the questions that are being asked of us. >> We're being askedre the max out of pocket. >> Do we also want to increase the one for employee plus spouse employee plus children of

24110% or 13%. Are those the two things we're being asked or are we also being asked if we want to start cost sharing? That is the it's first answer the max out of pocket. Do are we going to increase our insurance by 10% or 13.4 and then once we make that decision then the decision is how much of the whichever number you come up with if you keep it 13.4 how much of the 13.4 is going to go on to the employees that is the question. Is there going to be a cost share or is there going to be what? Whatever you guys come up with. Yeah. question you're asking is if the district is going to start cost sharing with employees >> not start we have in the past we just the last five

242years have been very um intentional with the decision- making and those decisions allowed us to not have to put the cost on to employees >> let me so when you say cost sharing >> I'm saying that not cost sharing this if no if we take no action employees cost will go up either 9% % or 10% or 13.4%. If we discuss the district sharing some of the employees cost, it's not employee sharing. This is their cost is going up. We have insurance. It's going up. Last year it went up 4%. We made a decision in here to cover the employees portion. The district covered the employees portion 100%. >> Okay. >> So that's what we're asking. Again, >> I'm trying to get the groups together. So, we're saying just employees and then the category for

243employee and spouse and then employee and children. Do we want to increase those three? >> No, it's all or none. It's all of it. It's not just specific categories. I'm just tell showing you the cost of those. >> Everybody want to start paying 10% of the cost or do we want to start paying 13% of the cost? >> No, >> I don't think that's right. I'm sorry. I'm not explaining it correctly. So, can someone help? >> Because I know you said that it will be an increase of the monthly premium. >> The monthly premium to employees will increase either 10% or 13% based on everybody's decision in here today. >> The decision about the max out of >> if we if we raise max out of pocket costs, the premiums only increase 10%. If we

244don't raise the max out of pocket cost, the premiums increase 13%. And then after we've decided whether or not to increase max out of pocket, that's the first real decision, right? Is do we increase the max out of pocket expenditures, then we can decide of the increase that we've chosen, do we want to cost share it or cover it? >> And it comes out of your 750,000. >> Oh. Um, >> okay. Yolanda. And then Kelly. >> Well, I was just going to emphasize I was just going to >> We want to hear your voice. Yes, we do. No, I was just going to basically say the same thing Daniel was explaining other than that 10% that the dis whatever that percentage that the district has been paying would now be or does it did the

245the decision would be do we split that like the district am I understanding that right Vanessa the district will pay let's say it's 10% will how much will the district pay from that 10% And how much will the employee pay from that? >> The district's cost is going up 10% and 13% too. The district is already paying the district will have to pay 458,000 or 615,000 either one depending upon your decision more than we paid last year. So, we are already taking a half a million dollar increase on the district side that the district already has to pay for based on what we cover. The percentage of the health insurance that we cover. No matter what, we're going up that much. The employees section that the employees are responsible for also goes up. The way

246that you mitigate that is the district covers more or less of it or more of it or none of it. >> So are we talking about cost share? >> We already cost share because people have a premium. We already have a cost share. You pay $89 a month to get insurance. That's your cost share of how much that insurance cost. You pay $89 a month for it and for the for So we already have a cost share. When you say cost share, I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying. So each month, this insurance plan cost $89 for the employee and it cost $128 for the district. So we have a cost share. >> Let me just one at a time. So everybody's mind confusing. When I think of cost share, I mean like cuz

247right because right now if you're an employee on your own right now, you're not paying um out of each paycheck, you're not paying >> one plan, >> your health insurance. What we're discussing now on is after we decide how much we're going to raise whatever it was max, we're going to start talking about cost sharing >> possibility. >> Yes. >> Just employee pay. Yeah, they have to pay for part of it. Whether you're a single employee getting the base, you might end up having to pay. That's what we're deciding. If you have dependent, you would have to pay out of your paycheck. The but the first thing that we're talking about is just the 10% or 13%. Then the second thing is how much is the employee going to have to pay or are they

248not going to have to pay and there's >> everyone kept telling no and trying to explain different cost sharing but >> but we're not starting cost sharing we're continuing cost sharing >> well before employe single employee change in that plan so the single employees are still a zero cost portion. So, the district is covering, they didn't change any of the percentages in the plan of what the district covers. So, the district covers 100% of the single uh base plan. The district covers X percent. It's on that other sheet. I can flip back and forth if I need to. The district covers a percentage of each one of these plans. We didn't change the percentages. So, if we if we covered 40% of the employee and spouse, we're still covering 40% of the employee and spouse,

249whatever the the math is right here. And I, you know, there's another sheet that we shared that showed how much the district covers. We're not changing the percentage that we cover of the plan. The plan itself is getting more expensive. So, it used to be a $1,000 plan and now it's a $1,200 plan. we're still covering 100 or 40 or whatever our percentage is. >> So, back to my first question. So, we're also going to discuss if if we're going to increase the dollar amount that people pay in their monthly preo or per paycheck for employee with spouse and employee with children. Those two boxes, >> the amount of money they pay for paycheck is going to increase. That what we're voting on today. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's why said >> Kelly, did you

250have a question? option on the table. Are we there? >> I have a question. >> I do want to show the percentages. 100% 57% 69 for employee and children, 51% for employee family. Um that's how much the district covers. So in every plan that the district covers 50% or more of the plan out of the out of the district side. So we're not changing those percentages. We'll still cover 51% but the plan's expensive. So they're paying 49% their 49% of it is going up. What we did last year is the same thing happened last year. It was 4%. Their plan would have gone up 4%. The district side went up 4%. We chose to cover >> to absorb that >> and absorb that 4% cost to the employees. We still didn't change the percentage of

251how much we cover. We just we took it on. >> Okay. Kelly then Daniel. >> Well, I have an option. I don't know if that's appropriate now or if I should wait until discussion is over. an option about the max out of pocket or or the 10 to 13. >> Yeah, the the 10%. >> You have a different option. >> No, no, just to move the >> move it forward. Okay, let me get to Daniel first. See if there's thing and then we can definitely do that. >> Vanessa, how much did >> it stop so fast? >> Vanessa, did you say you budgeted for a 15% increase? >> Yes. >> And does that include covering all employee costs or No. >> No. >> Okay. So then out of the money that we were told that

252we had um last time I remembered something about if we can covered the medical cost increase for employees it would cost us about $150,000. Is that a correct number or >> are we talking about the savings from the budget versus the actual >> because when I took that to the board there was not support for using that savings. I'm talking No, I'm talking about um for the money that we've been given at meet and confer or the money that we told at meet and confer here's how much money we have to spend. >> Right. So it was 750,000 and then we were going to >> cover that difference if we didn't pick the maximum out of pocket. >> And then it went down to 500 and something. We took that off the table after the

253governing board study session. Um, and so there's no penalty to the 750,000, but the employees cost would have to come out of the 750,000. And so >> it works out better for the group. I just kind of navigated it because I didn't like the big hit to the 750. >> And so how much will that cost from the 750 if we choose to cover the employee group? >> Sure. It looked like it was 63. It's It'll be back up there in a second. It's like 63,000 for the non >> for 13% 46 >> max and 40 something thousand for the other. >> Okay, I understand. >> It's right there. >> All right. >> 40 and 62. 46 and 62. >> That's That was my question. >> Yes. So, instead of the 750 being down to

254the Yes, I Thank you for bringing that back up because I forgot to tell you guys. I took it took it off. >> You took it off. took it off because there was no support from the board for that complexity and um but also it has to come out of the 750 but it's an actually a better option. It's less it keeps more dollars on the table for all the rest of the options. Okay. Can we talk this really quickly? >> Um, >> I'm just going to double check one thing real quick. Okay, I'm gonna keep you tight. Five minutes and then we got to get get back >> for which one? If we say another year, >> it's 63,000 or 60 whatever 2,000 would come out. So you have $750,000 on the table for

255all of the meet and confer costing options, no matter what they are. And so insurance without the decision being made, the 10% would be 43,000 to cover for staff. Uh the 13.4% would be 62,000 and change to cover for staff and it would come out of the 750. But what I stated before was I didn't see a lot of support >> to cover 100%. >> Are we still on? Yeah. >> Can we cut the video? >> Oh, when we're in in consensus, but this the same thing I said before. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Just in since we turn it off, I get a better >> any discussion in this group about what's happening. >> Thank you, D. >> Not sure what's >> Yeah. Wait till we're off. >> Okay. So Going from four

256and 8 in the buyup and five and 10 in the base to 6 and 12 for both. >> Okay. Okay. Joel, would you be so kind if we'll bring up the uh spreadsheet where we're put the two options on there? >> Get rid of mine. >> The option. >> We can do we can do this two ways. So we can go through and evaluate it with the standards or we can just say we're going to make the recommendation I've done where you don't go through the standards and do the points and all of that for the sake of time and because right you got two things either do or don't. Um so I'll leave that to the group. Do we want to evaluate it through the standards or we just make a decision? >> Is

257there anyone that feels strongly that we should not increase the max out of pocket? Anyone feel strongly about not increasing the max out of pocket? >> I unplugged mine. So, >> and it's Joel's now. >> Can we just evaluate >> if that is >> the out- of- pocket increase? >> Do you want to evaluate it through the standards or you just want to go talk go to straight to consensus about it >> because again we can do >> I unplugged and now it's >> I have people that will be really strict about doing the process. I've also done it where you just say look let's just talk about consensus. you don't see a lot of conversation about or desire to have additional conversation about it and you really have the one option you can go

258straight to consensus. >> I think we should just go to the 10% the 9.99 it's an ease in as opposed to going to the maximum that we have to increase. >> Okay. And then I think we should just take consensus on >> any any other I'm looking for final questions information because when we get to this consensus thing I you should be a hearer or a hearer. I want to make sure I have all questions answered prioring the question of so the 10% is the out of pocket. >> Yes. >> Correct. We're increasing the max out of pocket by $2,000 in order to only increase premiums by 10% instead of 13%. We're not discussing employee portion. >> We're not talking about employee cost sharing right now. Just talking about increase max out of pocket. Are

259there any other questions about increasing max out of pocket? Going once. Going twice. Okay. Now I'm looking for consensus to increase the max out of pockets so that your rates are uh at the 10% not at 13.4. So I'm looking for >> Did you catch that? >> We're taking consensus on increasing the max out of pocket to 10%. >> And we're not using we're not going to go through the standards and evaluate them. We're just looking for consensus. Dorothy, are you good? Do you have questions? Okay, I'm looking for thumbs. Every thumb. Do you have another question? >> I don't have a question. I don't I don't Let's I wave my vote. I wave my thumb. >> Are you abstaining from consensus? >> Yeah, I'm abating for this one. >> Up up up up up.

260Okay. You have consensus to do to increase your MAC max to 10% increase the max out of pocket. Okay. Do you want to present the other idea and have more discussion about that? >> The other you presented the other idea. Do you want to talk about that a little bit more because I think that one needs some vetting. it. So it would be $46,000 of cost to employees. In the past, we have covered these costs or made critical decisions with our insurance plan to minimize the cost to employees. There's been five years of no increase to employee cost. And this year, it's a 10% increase to the district. It's a 10% increase to employees. >> Yep. >> Katie with a question and then Daniel. >> Thanks, Rox. >> Well, I'm wondering it feels hard to

261vote on something like this without talking compensation at the same time because it I think it becomes a matter of like like we're all employees are going to take a hit somewhere. It's just where does it look the worst on paper and retention for them to take that hit? But either way, like I get a I get an increase in my pay, but now I'm paying it in insurance or I don't get an increase in my pay and I'm not paying it in in insurance. Either way, >> such a good point. And we can do that, too. We can go through some of the increase uh uh options that are on the table for compensation and compression and and that might help make some decisions, right? I I I agree. >> Um >> Daniel, then

262James. >> Yeah. I just want to talk a little bit about like being in a competitive environment as like a school district where right now when you choose to be employed by a school district as a teacher rather than um because I'm thinking about this from a teacher perspective rather than like a contracting company or even if like as in a school district compared to a private company like if you're working in finance or something. One of the um pros of doing that is benefits. Like as a school district, we offer a pretty strong benefits package. I mean, much stronger than compared to a contractor. And where we lag is in salary. And we are just never going to compete with a contracting company in salary because they don't have to offer those benefits, right?

263Like I mean, yeah, we can be competitive, but we're never going to be able to offer as much or more than them. But we can offer a very strong benefits package. And it's a $50,000 cost to the district to to take the hit. And I understand that at some point in the future it may not be possible and we have to cost share. But it doesn't make sense to me to take something that we do really well that is like an attractive selling point at our school district and make it a little bit less attractive. Make it a more mediocre oh we cover most of your health insurance even if it's only 40 bucks a month. Um I remember recently I was hearing about I think the uh J man was talking about what causes

264families to leave schools and it's not really like you know having a negative experience. It's necessarily like how is that negative experience handled? How do like when like families don't necessarily need always stay at a school because it's like a great place, but because they haven't had like that bad customer service experience, right? Because they're they trust them because they have a good experience with the people that work there. Um, and I think like, you know, looking at your paycheck and seeing that you are now losing money for health insurance when before you weren't losing money for health insurance, even if it's only the cost of like one or two tanks, I guess it be like two tanks of gas a month. Like I think that that's like a negative experience with our employees that

265we can avoid, right? If we like we have the money to do that. >> James, >> um so uh for me my uh one of the things that I focus on is messaging. How is this messaged? Um, and um, I think it would be, and I don't mean this to sound negative, but I think it would be disingenuous to say that we have a pay raise unless it is something that is above 10%. Because it's not a pay raise. >> And I'm not saying I don't support this. I I understand the reality of it. It's just when we have that conversation about pay. >> Well, that's not it's 10% of a a $700 cost, not 10% of a $50,000 salary. Those are two very different numbers. So, you can't do 10% to 10%. >> Well,

266whatever it plays out to, we've done this. We've had this this has happened before. Um, it's happened a couple of times and employees pick up on it real quick and it becomes a really hostile conversation when you're messaging it because when you're talking to them and you're trying to explain this to them, all they see in their head is that you're telling me I have a pay raise and trying to message it in a positive manner and then you're telling me that I have u I have an increased cost to uh my medical insurance. So, I I I I'm not against it. I'm just saying messaging is very very important because they will catch up on it. >> Katie, then Dorothy, >> um I think I want to counter what you said, Daniel. Um, as

267far as the the employ, yes, I think it's a great benefit that we give that employee like we cover so much of employee things, but when teachers are searching for districts, they are not digging into benefits. They are looking for the actual base salary, and we have lost a lot of people because of that base salary. So, I mean, I I I don't know that I love either one, but I think that like when we can flash a higher base salary on the front page of the kraton school districts.org page, um I think it looks better than than um insurance. >> Dorothy, >> I would agree with that with recruitment. I don't know about but for recruitment. Yeah. Um, I just wanted to get a clarifying. I was trying to follow all of the conversation.

268So, um I know we don't have a ton of our teachers that are on the family plan, but if if a single parent had children and was on the family plan, this 10%, right? It's a 10%ish hit would affect them in a greater magnitude than the single person just getting the regular. Correct? Yes. I I guess that's a struggle for me. I I was a single parent. I've worked here for over 30 years. Only had three kids when I first entered the district, ended up having six. I was never ever even able to afford the family plan. So, my kids went without any insurance for years and years and years, which is scary as heck, right? That to have dependents that have no health insurance at all. You're like walking on eggshells all the time.

269I can't imagine trying to for those few and I know it's not a ton, but those few parents that we have that are teachers, maybe they have a medically fragile child, maybe they have a child that they've just decided even if it's costing me $1,000 a month, I have to have health insurance for my child and are struggling that much and we're going to come back to them and say, and we're now going to increase it by 10%. that just that hurts my mom brain to even think about because that's such a fragile group of our teachers and we know they're out there. I can't even imagine how we would message that. So, >> okay. >> Um just some something to think about, >> Ivonne. And then Kelly, >> I know we have a lot

270of budget con uh constraints, but I'm just going to add to what Dorothy said. Uh I rather and I'm talking personally rather not have an increase in salary but knowing that my benefits medical insurance is covered by the district and I know that it's not fiscally sustaining but hopefully we can do it for one more year and then in the next year we can do a marketing conversation communications and next year is not going to be the same and so they have at least people a year to process make arrangements all of those things rather than to spring it out in four, three months. >> Okay, Kelly. >> Um, yeah, I just wanted to add that we're already increasing the out of pocket, so that's already sort of a hit, so to speak. So, why

271would we add another hit on top of that? Um, and in addition, just so I'm clear, Vanessa, if the district were to absorb the cost, it's 50K, right? So, now we're talking about 750 down to 700. Is that right? >> It's Yeah. 468 46,800. >> So of the money that we have to work with here in this group, we were at 750. This would eat up 46 essentially. So about 700. >> Yeah, that's how it works. >> Which to me in the grand scheme of things feels very worth it. >> Yeah. >> Daniel, >> um earlier I heard the number about $40 per paycheck, right? for uh if we shared 50% um I mean 25 paychecks over the course of a school year that's going to cost a teacher $1,000 out of pocket. >> So

272to James' point earlier that would mean that they would have to receive more than a 2% raise >> to offset that. And I mean we don't got 2% raise money. So I mean um I >> Okay. >> Well, right. Exactly. The 2% rate just to offset. >> All right. But if you don't get to a race to cover other initiatives, your benefits increase is part of your total compensation. And I think that's a better messaging. >> Yeah. Well, I was going to say to Avon's point, I mean, you could even do something where you could say, you know, we're going to institute cost sharing at a rate of 10% a year for 5 years, right? And that would be a much smaller cliff. someone is now paying $4 or or $8 right next year they

273pay $16 the following year then to say oh yeah starting at 50 right I know it's small numbers right now but I mean to Ivon's point it's like you can't just it's you don't want to spring things on people >> that would only be if it's fiscally irresponsible to continue covering the cost again I think it's like is a thing that we can advertise to to your point I mean yes people don't shop around for benefits when they're comparing school districts but when you're determining whether you're going to go work at a contracting company that doesn't offer benefit, you are actually. That's one of the things that people look at is or if you're a contractor and you're considering jumping ship to go work at the school district, it's going to be for benefits, right?

274>> And I think I mean talking about messaging and stuff, it's I I think it's less shady to say, hey, you know, we're going to eat the 46,000. And I mean, it's not good for recruiting. I agree. But um it's less shady to say we're going to just not have this higher pay raise because we're going to cover uh health insurance instead. I mean that messaging wise I think that's a little bit easier for people to swallow than oh well look we got a 2% raise but don't look at this part back here >> Katie and then we'll close this conversation out >> to to agree with everyone I don't even really think we're in like a big recruiting year you know we're declining enrollment most of our employees according to all these surveys are

275staying anyway so I think we really do need to think about retention at this point in which case I agree with you saying you get a, you know, 2% raise doesn't really go very far and I think it would be better to say we're going to cover as much of your insurance as possible. >> Okay. >> Any final >> uh Yeah. I just I really like the talks about uh messaging and planning the messaging as opposed to my concern for the future is that we don't have $750,000 on the table to give any kind of increases and we have a 15% increase to staff. So, they get hit twice, right? They don't get any increase and they get a decrease and we can't cover it. So, I I really love some of the messaging ideas

276and I'm wondering if we we might not want to put together a messaging team that comes up with some of that stuff. Right. Well, I was thinking and I don't want to add to our plates, but I'm wondering if next year because we're talking about revising committees and if we start to actually have an insurance committee that solely looks at insurance and maybe has those conversations to then bring all of the information to mean confer and work on messaging as well throughout the year. Um that that just from my perspective, I think that might be helpful too. >> That would be very helpful. I would agree and I think your messaging even not tomorrow but tomorrow what I'm saying is sooner than later is whatever the recommendation is is that education and information is powerful

277the you know how if this group says look we we in lie of increased compensation we did this and then just putting the facts out we had a 15% increase very likely the rates are going to be going up again very likely I I don't know about your enrollment but whether it stabilizes or goes down right all these things so that people are thinking now even thinking planning now for next year knowing that you may have to do something different so that education piece I think is huge and I think you have a good great idea to put a group together to say let's start talking about that now So what we've heard we've had some conversation uh around this cost sharing idea. Uh there seems to be a general um uh I don't want

278to say consensus because a feeling around not doing anything yet but at least doing putting some group together to say look we need to really take a look at this with some folks in the room and valley schools and you and whoever that may be to say look let's start planning and talking about this moving forward. So, if that is the case, and I don't want to put it up there, um, because it sounds like >> I think we could. I mean, I think it's pretty >> it's clear it's there's 750,000. We're going to go through some other op um compression items and like a menu of different >> options. It sounds like this is option. >> It could be. And maybe what we do is we let's get to compensation perhaps and then we

279can talk about it in that same context to say yay or nay based on what we see there if that works. Dorothy, >> I just had a quick question. Um, I don't know if this is within the purview of meet and confer or some other committee or wherever this lies, but we just I don't know where you posted that, but thank you for getting that information that we basically saved or would have saved around $100,000 if we had been using precision over the last five years. I saw that you provided that. Is there a way or place or recommendation that can be made? Well, let's earmark that money for um things like not having to cost share and pass on costs for insurance, right? It's under kind of that same umbrella of insurance. Like, let's

280start looking at well, where are we going to cut costs like that and earmark money specifically to address areas that we know are going to be a concern in the future. >> Does that make sense? Yeah, that's exactly what that that type of group could do. We can look at those savings. It'd be prior year, right? Like >> Sure. Sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. But right like let's let's start being proactive in planning how we're going to cover stuff like this that we know is critical to our employees. >> Good, >> Ivon. Then we're moving on. >> Just one last comment on on the messaging part. Um because I think as many other districts are closing schools or reducing other stuff, I think it will be a great opportunity for our district as we recruit new

281individuals to say for the last five years we have paid 100% of the insurance and we're doing every all of those all of those things positive things for the people who are staying so they understand the the context and the and the history and for the new ones that are here about kraton shout out that might a good place to be part of. >> Okay. Avon said sign him up for your committee. >> Can we come to consensus on that? >> Well, let me ask you that. Uh, we can we can also if we need to talk about because somebody brought up like wanting to know about compensation, too. Um, but I'm fine just coming to consensus about this and we can address it the exact same way where we just have it, not run

282it through the standard and say we're okay not moving forward with cost sharing for next year. >> Yeah, I was going to say um if the more the earlier we start with the the sooner we spend some money, the easier the other compensation decisions will be. >> True. >> Because yeah, we have our running totals became more complex. Yeah. >> Okay. So, do we have consensus for the next school year to not uh move forward with cost sharing? >> Can we frame that? >> The district to absorb. >> Yeah. >> The district to absorb >> employee healthcare costs instead of saying not cost sharing. >> The district will absorb the >> increase to me health medical insurance. Is it just medical? medical. >> Okay. >> Has it been way longer than five? I only got

283>> my entire career. I've never paid out of pocket for my personal insurance. >> Now, I couldn't afford insurance for my kids, but my insurance, my personal insurance with no up has always been free. >> So, that's at least 50,000. >> Yeah. >> I'm I'm going to put the dollar amount on there. District will absorb the is it $50,000 increase to medical insurance. >> 46. Let's round to 47. 47K. >> 47,000. >> And Dorothy, such a good point because again, we lose another 500 kids. >> Here is the option. The district will absorb the $47,000 increase to the medical insurance for the 2627 school year. I'm looking for thumbs. I 100% fully support. not I a fully p 100% >> I >> also tried to capture some of the comments that were made about the

284impact in the story. So, um, >> do performance >> uh, just for future communication, >> but if you do have any kind of comments like that and want to email me, I'll add it to my list. Right now, I have that we increase the max amount out of pocket, so we are >> um, affecting people's insurance, right? Um, we are absorbing the cost out of the meet and confer budget. >> It's a big deal. Uh we're creating an insurance group to message and dig deeper into future insurance costs and these needs in your account. >> Compensation will not cover most insurance increases for the staff members with dependent. So whatever compensation choices we make most likely would not counter this increase. If we were giving a 10% like um James said, then maybe this is

285that would be the year that we would do that, but it's not happening this year. And um I do want to refer back to the survey because was that not one of the also it was compensation and benefits, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. If possible. >> Right. >> So again, another year that we have the opportunity. I'm excited. >> Okay. Um I want to we're going to put another option on here which is to do what we talked about with the committee is develop the committee for uh I'm just spitballing here >> future insurance needs >> education uh insurance education information regarding insurance. >> It sounds like we're predetermining eventually we're going to cost share but we've been crying cost sharing for years. But every school district and no one no one.

286>> It's a disclaimer, man. I'm gonna say it every year just like the people before me because one year it could happen. >> Why is that not marketed? I mean, if it's such a rare thing for other school districts to do that, that should be that should be out there. >> To do what to call some do, some don't. Yeah, >> I teachers and other school districts and they're like, "What? What?" >> Like, it's it's intriguing to them. >> They have jobs, so they're probably not receing the advertising. You know what I mean? >> Okay. >> But the e only Scottsdale does not, Roosevelt does, Madison does, and Kraton does. Those are the only four districts I had. >> All right. So, the option is to develop the committee to address education information and planning

287for future insurance needs. confer committee or a district. >> I think it's a if I would it sounds like right because right now you've got valley schools. So I would if I would make it a subcommittee of this group and then just like today the subcommittee comes forward but also this group is also just um sharing information even before IBN starts. You know it could be a says we're developing this committee please join us. We need to start, we need to make sure people are informed about things, right? There's there's nothing that has to go through here, I would say, for them to be able to do that work. >> That's my take on it. >> Would you know who should be on the committee and then so we would >> I would if if

288it I would probably want a representative group of of your employee groups, classified certified admin. I would definitely want one or two from here right so that they are able to share and update if that works okay for you guys that's how it in other places >> that's what I volunteers on this one we can if you would like or we can just move to consensus to say that we're going to do this uh particular option to to get started and help inform employees. >> We're not volunteering for the committee. We're just >> Right. If you don't if you put your thumb up, I'm not putting you on the committee. Okay. >> Okay. Do we have consensus around this third option to get a committee started >> side? Ivonne, you're you have to be this

289or this because you're on it. So, I'm just kidding. >> Okay. All right. Okay, we have consensus on this option. So these three options will uh move forward to governing board recommendation. Okay. All right. We are finished talking about insurance. Give yourselves a round of applause. Yeah. All right. Pay for performance. Are you ready? Hopefully everybody had a chance to look at the plan as presented. It's my understanding. I'm going to turn it over to Joel to give some more detailed information, but this committee's been working since August. Is that right? >> September. >> I I have a quick question before we begin. So, when we do come to a consensus, we're coming to a consensus as how the plan is written. >> Well, no. Yes. >> The plan, the performance plan. >> Yeah. So

290when we come to consensus, you have to come to consensus off how it is written or >> keep it the same status quo or how it's written on the screen. >> The only thing I believe that you that we are going to uh work on for consensus is the dollar amount, not the plan. >> No, I'm not talking about I'm talking about the plan for plan they're about to present for us. >> That's what I'm talking about. Just the dollar amount. But the dollar amount is on there. I'm asking a question. So the presentation is written >> or whatever's on already pre-eread. When we come to consensus, we're coming to consensus on how it's written and presented to us. >> I'm having difficult what we need consensus on for pay for performance is the dollar

291amount. >> What I'm asking what we're going to come to consensus on is >> the dollar amount that's being presented to us. >> Yes. And the other second option is option is status quo. It's kind of like what was before. >> Oh, increase or no increase. >> So basically yes. So either >> correct >> both for what's being presented to us on the slides. >> We'll review the options and go through those standards and say yes either accept the dollar amount or >> my apologies. I've just had a sidebar that the funds are coming out of the classroom site fund. So I think really this is just an opportunity for this group to give tacid approval right not >> I don't I don't think it's consensus it's the committee the committee worked on the plan

292looked at all the different plans looked at all the different dollars it comes from classroom site fund which is not a fund that we bring in for bargaining um there is a portion of it for the classified staff that is an M cost and that will be brought forward in the compensation dollars one is looking at the plan that the committee is recommending ing to send out to all teaching staff and then teachers will decide that plan. So honestly, I don't I'm not sure if this isn't what do you guys usually do with it? I don't know if it's a consensus or just sharing the information with you >> because right now it's not coming out of the 700. >> It doesn't touch your 700 except for the classified >> classified does. So that would

293have to be >> Joel. >> I mean, do you want to see it so you can talk about it? >> We have it here. It does. I do think it I I do think it needs to be known when we talk about compression because there's a whole group of staff that will be getting if they vote this in. If 70% or more vote this in, that means they're getting a $1,000 increase to their pay. So, I think that's important for com compensation conversations is that those teachers will get a $1,000 increase to pay without >> and they have to vote for that themselves, right? >> Yeah. and they will have a potential to get another thousand, but that's a potential through the SOFG goals. So, no matter what though, it's a $1,000 increase over what

294they had last year for all teachers that get the performance-based pay if they voted in. >> I have a question. >> Okay. >> So, right there when it says certified teacher and learning stipen is 100% payout for all eligible certified staff. Um says certified teaching and learning stipen allocation 3,000 100% payout for all eligible teachers. That basically is our performance pay right now, right? >> No, our performance pay right now is 3500. >> That's what I'm asking. So we're going to decrease that 3500 to,000. >> We're we're adding $1,000. So, of the $4,500 bucket that we have, 3,000 it will be designated as a classroom uh teaching and learning fund. So, there's no criteria other than being a member of that group. So, in the past, if there was uh if you didn't do all

295the PD and you had a hit to your pay, if you didn't score effective or highly effective, you had a hit to your payout, that $3,000 will never change. It'll be consistent. Where it does then have impact is in the $1,500, right? Is it's 1500, right? >> 1,200. 1,200 for the PD and 300 for the final evaluation score. So those are the two areas that might be impacted by either not being able to complete your PD hours which is increased to 17 from 15 and any impact from your final evaluation score. >> Okay, one other question. So right now when you say 17 hours of PD those are basically what we do on Wednesdays or that's like an additional P what we do on Wednesdays. >> It's inclusive of all of those items right so

296the four school curriculum updates that's four hours that's included in the 17. So it includes any PD that's done that's aligned to student outcome focused governance goals. So that could be for um literacy, math, language acquisition. Um attendance is one of the guard rails. So any of those areas that would fall into those PDs and it could be site based as well. >> So what you're saying, so the question I'm asking, I don't know, maybe I'm not wording it correctly. Are we going to have to do more professional development than we're doing right now outside of the ones on Wednesdays to get to 17 hours >> including all the curriculum PDs that you have to do, right? So you do used to be called affinity groups, but now it's the professional learning communities. >> Those

297will count. Yeah. But it's later on Wednesday. So I when I hear Wednesday, I'm thinking of the sitebased ones. So, anything that's curriculum department or sitebased that's aligned to SOFG goals would count. >> They're more Yeah, there's more hours available. >> So, is all of our Wednesday's meetings aligned to the SOFG goals? >> No. So, then that would mean that the principles would have to make sure that they're tracking the ones that do count, right? and district puts in dates where you do action planning, right? So action planning PD days which is based on data wise aligned to SOFG would count as part of that. >> So I just want to make sure that we're not putting more on teachers plates to do on the weekend or some other day of the week. So what

298you're saying is so some of the staff meetings would count and then those days we have to travel to another site which I always thought was just Wednesday PD those account >> and then the week we come back the just the teacher inservice week do those meetings count >> yes they do >> if they're aligned to professional development that's aligned to SOFG specifically the classroom uh curriculum updates that happen every year so that's four hours right there so you come the first week of school, you start with four hours and then if a site does a PD that's based on 95%, right? So 95% is part of what we use to help increase literacy, then that could also count. >> Okay. So I know like there's been times like for example, sorry. Um I know

299there's time when um for example this year for those teacher new teachers who were not trained on 95% they have the option of going to class on the weekend and they were compensated for that time but now would that be now considered oh you can get your 17 hours >> if they're compensated they can't count that toward time >> like are we going to now start doing like instead of compensating for teachers doing that weekend professional development we're are we going start telling them, oh, instead of being compensated, you can do it can count towards your 17 PD hours. >> I don't see why you would have to do that because there's more than enough hours in the year of professional development with Wednesdays and curriculum PD that would make more than make up the

300time that they would need. So, if they are going to a weekend thing, they could have the option of not having it paid for and use that for salary advancement. We can't accept credits from a a professional development they do that um is being used for salary advancement if we pay for it. What about me though? I'm asking because I know like like beginning year teachers have the option they weren't trained 95% there was a weekend class just making sure like teachers don't have to go out and do extra more >> that was the whole conversation in the committee was to make sure that we had enough time in the school year for people to meet that requirement. >> Okay. >> Daniel and then Ally. >> Oh, I didn't raise my hand for anything for

301this Ally. I feel >> um looking at the SOFG uh payout, the $1,000. So for teachers that, for example, if a teacher only teaches English, they don't teach math. Would there be a limit to how much they could get paid out for that? >> This is based on sitebased data. So it's the whole site. If the whole site meets the goal, then everybody on the site gets the 250 for that goal, right? And so there's up to four different goals that can be paid out. And it's not just on goal attainment because goal attainment won't be until 2028, but every year there are interim measures. And so those will be taken into an account. >> Um or district, >> there are some certified teachers that work for the district level. So like a coach, a

302TOA would be qualified under the district SOFG outcomes. >> So a coach wouldn't be able. So for example, if you're a coach for Monavista, Mack and Excellencia, Macken meets the SOFG goal, but your other two sites don't. So the coach would not get it because it wasn't >> they're they're in district data, not insight data. So they don't get even their schools make it. >> They get the district data. That's that's the way it is for their evaluation currently too. >> Did it also include service providers? >> I'm sorry. >> Service providers speech. >> Uh if they currently qualify for certified then yes. Anyone who qualifies for the certified payout would be under these requirements. the ones that travel to multiple sites, they will also follow underneath the district. >> Yes. Yeah. And that that

303hasn't changed. That's been that's been the way. >> Any other questions? >> Um yeah, I so I had a question. Um so the SFG goals are based on district data. You're like, right. Yes. >> Individual sites have their own goals related to those. >> So, so those are the goals. So, for example, if I work at Builtmore, my test scores are going to be a lot higher than another school. >> Maybe, but maybe not. >> Well, true. But just looking at the historical data, like when it says SOFG goals, Builtmore has their own growth goal, not just >> That's right. >> the 10% district goal. Okay. >> So, the overall district goal is what the goal is that the board set and then principles set their own goals based on their analysis. >> And so,

304and so at each site, those teachers uh bonus would be based on meeting the site goals, not the That's right. Okay, I understand. Thank you. >> Ask another question. All the years we have been doing SOFG goals, how of Huh? >> How often has the sites made their goals compared to the district? >> We'll have to look for that information. I don't have that off the top of my head. Is it most so I'm worried about is it going to be easier for people that's on the district goal level to reach their goal compared to on the site level. >> A good way to look at that is to look at the board reports or SOFG and they always have the aggregate which is the district total and then they also break it down by

305site. So that would be a good place to start for that research. Okay. So, they're not really >> for classified. We do have to approve classified. >> That's that you do need consensus for. Correct. So, just letting everybody know that's the deal around performance for the certified group. >> Okay. That go I don't know when it goes out to vote. >> Well, we want wanted to bring it to this group. We had another focus group that looked at it and we have a committee meeting the day we get no the week after we get back. I think the 23rd uh is the compression committee. So, if there any and couple of people in this uh team are on that committee as well. So if there are any questions or clarifications, I think the PD thing

306has come up several times, Ariel. So we'll kind of revisit that and flesh that out a little bit more. Then it will be pushed out to teachers for a vote, uptown vote. >> And are we pushing just question on my end, are we going to be sending out the plan uh but then also like some maybe topics? Yeah, it's in we've got quite a few FAQs out on the thing too. We haven't put those out yet though, right? Okay. So there will be questions answered and I think the takeaway is that we wanted to make sure there was no harm with the SOFG. So that thousand is on top of what they're already getting and that one's already set. It's not evaluative pushed anymore. It's kind of changed that format. So there's more dollars in

307teachers pockets um and ability to get the dollars in teachers pockets which is what we felt the intent was of the dollars. And then the SOFG portion was above and beyond that additional dollar. So that's a focus uh to have a more of an achievement uh piece to it. But the thousand is above the 3500 they were getting and it's a bigger portion of it. They just get it without any anything. It's just stipen. >> When we do present it to teacher, could we have the data presented to us also about how often the sites are meeting their goals compared to um the district? Well, just how how often is the district meeting their goals and often is the sites being their goals? >> I think we would just provide the >> the board presentations.

308>> Yeah, I think I think teachers would want to know when it's presented out to them. >> I was just gonna I don't know if the paper performance committee already had a timeline of when to give the the survey if it's going to be through a staff meeting because I know to attain the Yep. 70% >> have to pass by 70% of the people who are eligible. Thank you. >> Sorry. So you have to determine how many people would be eligible for the payment and then 70% of that group has to approve it. And so the timeline is as soon as possible before the end of the year, we're going to make sure that principles have an opportunity to either present a um screencast or something to introduce it at a staff meeting with QR

309code. So teachers can have access to vote um in a window of time. When Kyne does their program, they give teachers five days in the summer to do it. So we're trying to do it before the end of the school year so we get a clearer sense of the group. >> Yes performance, but I just want to do a temperature check as I see uh lunch settling in. Do we need a 10-minute break before we do that? All right, I'm tight. 10 minutes. We're all I know. That's why I'm like, come back. Although, we did avoid a whole topic, but that's okay. We get these other ones done. I've got 214. I'll see you at 2:24. And so the next thing that we're going to excuse me talk about Vanessa is uh not Vanessa we're

310not talking about Vanessa. Next thing we are going to discuss is compensation. And Vanessa has some information to Oh, no. I'm sorry. We're going to talk about classified pay for Look at me jumping ahead. So, first classified pay for performance and then we'll review uh or come to consensus around that. >> I know I'm not Vanessa, but >> I Okay. >> Um, wait, before you do this, because we didn't do classified pay. >> Are you talking about that right now? Sorry. I thought you were. I need a nap. Um, current classified pay for performance is $500 for these groups. Let me show you handy dandy spreadsheet. >> It's um classified hourly ESPs, classified exempt staff. Uh, those are the classified staff who get paid salary. They usually have higher levels of certifications and job duties

311and responsibilities. Um, they have to meet an IRS definition. That's why they're exempt. Uh, and then also the RN, um, occupational therapist assistant and speech assistant level. They get the 500. Everybody else, um, gets the performance-based pay. So, those are the groups we're talking about for classified. And then just where did it go? There it is. Okay. Uh, and sorry, >> it's not that I see districts. >> Oh, district subs. Yes. How many of those do we have? Nine. Have a good day. I Okay. Yep. Let's just do that right here. Okay. Um times nine. They were not in it. >> Plus this. It doesn't include benefits because these uh are these benefits are already being paid. So, we wouldn't include a benefit cost on this one. So, um okay, there it is. So, it's

312158,537. At this point in time, it is on the table in here because it would come out of the $750,000 budget. Um we're increasing um performance a thousand and then a potential another thousand and I haven't increased when was the last time we increased the merit for classified I don't know not in our memory six years oh that's not bad at least it's not 20 I don't know it's there but I have a real high interest in trying to find another funding source for it because we have another funding source um for the certified portion. Um it just it's I just feel like I can do it. So I I guess I can bring back we wanted to share the information with you, share the amount and then what I'm hoping is that by the

313next meeting I will have found a sustainable uh funding source so that it wouldn't even need to come off the 750 or be in this uh conversation on compensation. That is my goal. I'm trying. If we can't, then it would come in here and that would be the amount just to put it on your radar. Uh but I should know by the next meeting whether I can find I I know for sure I can find a portion for the 4500. I'm looking for the rest of it. So that's kind of what that means. >> I wish I had a better better thing. Question. >> The the 4500 was the district subs that I forgot about, but they would qualify I think in the other funding source. I got to make sure in the legal language

314of the statute. So that's that's what we're doing. >> Okay. And we're just talking about the increase. >> Yep. Just that line. Let me Yep. Nothing. Nothing else. Maybe not. That's my goal is to get it in a maybe not. Um, so I I got to put that one on the table. I apologize. But I wanted to show you what the cost was. >> Hey, I want you to look for other pointing for that one. I can also just add to that one. >> It's all of it. I just did math over here. Sorry. This is just math on a spreadsheet here. I'll get rid of it. So, right now we're just this is just information. We're not going to actually make a decision then. Is that correct? Until you can find out if you

315have another funding source or not. >> Yep. Just wanted to put it on your radar. >> So, about 150 round up 159,000 possibly to come out of the off of the 750 to increase classified performance from 500 to a,000. However, Vanessa is going to look for an opportunity to have some of that come out of a bucket or all of it. >> There were changes in the law that we, you know, that allowed us to do a little bit more with that and we're going to see how much of those dollars could potentially apply and then uh see what that remaining number is and and look at some other funding sources. >> Okay. Any other questions about this? >> I was just telling you >> just telling you for now and I'll bring it back

316at the next meeting if I find a funding source for it, which means it just takes it off the table and then you guys would not need to have it be a part of your um 750 budget. But it is, you know, compensation and things that we should keep on the info piece that tells staff what dollars they're getting this year. >> Does it get voted on the way the certified one does? >> It doesn't. No, >> that's a >> that's why it's one of those weird ones because it's like if it's Mino, it absolutely is sitting in here, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. She was saying that they should perhaps have a similar criteria. No problem. Other questions around this topic of performance for classified. Okay. What else do you have? Um, it was

317an item that we put in the So, this is the one we talked about before lunch when we said we had another new thing and we didn't want to keep throwing new things at you. So, we said that we would present it the information here today and that you guys would um this would be something we would further discuss on the next meeting and that we would not bring any of these new ideas or items forward. Uh again, this is an effort when we are either following our board direction looking for uh corrections or when we see something that just really stands out. So, we wanted to talk about this group These are what are called work calendars. This kind of talks about how many days employees work. Um this is kind of a general

318description. This comes straight out of our system. This is what the system looks like. Visions. Um these are their contract not contract because they don't get a contract they get annoyed at. But uh this is when their work period starts and when their work period ends. Um this is how many days that they get paid for. These are their position days. So between here and here they they get paid for 180 days. 883 days. They do 180 days of actual work. They're working that day and then they get a 3-day paid holiday. They get three paid holidays in their entire working time during that 183 days. So when we tell them to show up for work on 84 and then release them on 521, there are an additional 26 days during that period that they

319do not work and they do not get paid. So that means that total time period between the 84 and the 521 of potential days to work is 209. So it's not like they could go out and get another job for the couple of days they don't work. And um I mean maybe some do. I'm sure some do. Okay. Um I'll go into details about who these people are here in just a second, but I want to show you what this looks like in real life. And this is something that we actually when we go went through this process, we said this would probably be very valuable for these groups to get this kind of data set to help them plan ahead. So the difference between hourly and salary is that hourly staff are paid for

320the days that they work. We have a legal requirement that we cannot pay them ahead of time. We can't pay them like salary. Salaries, we take your entire contracted amount and we divide it by the 26 pays and you get the same paycheck every time. Every two weeks, you get the same paycheck. You're off for two weeks at winter break. You get the same paycheck. No matter what days you're paid for during that contracted time, hourly staff get paid only for the days that they are working. So, this is what uh those people look like. Uh the example is the first line, the 183 day staff. Um so they start their first paycheck, they get 10 10 days, 10 days, that's a full paycheck, and then there's a day in there that they don't get

321paid for. That's nine. Another paycheck two weeks later, 10. Two weeks later, get a five day paycheck. They get half of a full pay. Uh 10 10 9 8 You can see the dates, too, when that's happening. Fall break and stuff. Um here they get one paid holiday. So that brings them from the seven days that they worked and they get a paid holiday. What's really interesting is right after winter break, this is where you can see the biggest impact on this group. They get two pay holidays, so they get something, but right after, you know, the holidays, they're getting uh two weeks and then two weeks later they get two days of pay and they have to wait another two weeks before they get a 10day pay. At least it's 10 days backed in

322there. I mean, that's the only good thing there. and then nine nine five again where they drop to another half a check 10 8 n so there's their 183 days uh with the three paid holidays the other thing we wanted to talk about with this group is that they are um the people that are in this group it's about 149 staff uh Linda has some uh statistical information she provided to talk about that too So, of the 149 employees that this affects that have a 3-day holiday calendar, 93 or over 30 hours per week, these are your paras and the people who are working enough of a schedule that they qualify for benefits and then they're in this weird bucket where they're they're almost full-time. They're enough time to get benefits, but they're um not

323enough to get the other holidays. Uh the turnover rate in a 3-year period, Linda did some um attrition. It's 49% turnover. These are three years and less most of this group. So they do turn over pretty quickly. Um and the average hourly rate for these staff is$1850. So I guess you know when we ran these numbers, let me go ahead and take a put you on this other sheet we were looking at. Um, so 149 it includes our 7.8. They're 0.2 away from being an 8 hour full-time employee getting the next level of holiday pay. I want to point that out too before I leave this screen. Here are the paid holidays of the groups. The next highest level is 15. So there's a big disparity. They have three and then the next one is

32415. That's the jump. Uh, and then you have 22, 24, and 26. So, these are all a little bit more in alignment. But you have this one here, 149 staff. 93 of those staff are getting more than 30 hours a week. So, when um, go back to this this one. Okay. So, we had priced this out for the 149 and we said, well, one day of holiday pay for the 149 would be $20,000. two days. I mean, two days gets them up to five days. We could load those into that um winter break. So then they get it would get 4 days of pay. Uh we could maybe even say we don't ever want them to fall below 5 days of pay in a paycheck. So then that would be 3 days. That's 62,000. Uh

325but one of the things that we were just discussing um was that those 93 make up the biggest portion of the hourly rate, that $18 an hour that they're making on average. Um so the if we were to just look at the other ones are those people who are only working very part-time, it's intended for that group. Somehow this 30-hour group got in there uh over the years and never addressed. So really, it's about 93 people that we think are kind of in this weird place, not the full 149. The other staff are like crossing guards. They only work a couple hours a day. I mean, they're not here to try to get paid holidays. They're not here for full-time schedule. Uh they're they're don't qualify for benefits. Um so we're not necessarily talking about

326them. So we recalculated that's about half. We'll come back with actual numbers. Um, but we did some Daniel Napkin math over here, uh, with the expert. So, really what that's looking at is if we were to do three days, it would be 31,000 to come off of the $750,000 uh, budget this year. Then we would load those into this so that those three days would hit here. They would have three periods of time where they would get half a paycheck, but that's we would give them this information so that they could plan ahead. They could take and do what we do with your salaries, which is they could take that and say, "Oh, I got to save aside some of these days to help me support when I have the less." If we could just

327take them and split them into the 26 and never change their pay up and down, I'm sure that everybody would love that. But we would step sideways of a bunch of different laws and regulations and we just it's just too difficult uh with those types of calendars and with hourlies and the restrictions that we operate under hourly staff that we are not held to with salary. So that's the biggest difference and why it affects them the way that it does. So that's kind of what we wanted to bring forward. It's not. It was just something that because we have someone who pays attention to these things and sees it and has the conversations with the staff, she was able to see that there's a bucket of people that I don't know if that was the

328intent in the past when we set the three days if if we were really talking about those 30hour people who are almost full-time full year. So, I mean that's it. Anyways, that's what we were bringing. And so, I'm happy to answer questions. It doesn't we're not saying anything other than we're bringing information and wanted to make you aware of a situation. >> Kelly then uh I'm sorry and then Ariel >> um I really appreciate this. Thank you Linda for um lifting the rocks and trying to make things equitable especially sounds like there is a lot of uh turnover with these 93 employees. Um so this would come from our 700k. >> Yeah. And we'd have to go and do a a policy update. >> Um for this, I think. >> Yeah, we'd have to do

329a policy update >> because the paid holidays are in in >> uh in policy. Yeah. >> Then is it sustainable? Like are we going to be able to continue? >> Yeah. All the monies that we give you are ongoing monies. >> Okay. >> So that's planned in the budget. This when you have the 750, that's 750 of ongoing dollars. >> Okay. So we just need to decide essentially which option if we're going to do it at all. if you were going to do it at all or if you wanted to table it for next year or if you don't want us to look at that at all or if you want us to dig deeper next year and look at all the holidays. What I can we looked at them for the classified staff and

330you can see that it's 3 15 22 24 26. >> Um Linda I know you're relatively new still but have you had any staff that fall in this category that have said like uh this one project so small what's going on? Like is there any sort of anecdotal evidence you can bring to >> devastation? You have heard the microphone. >> Yes, I have. I um when I first started I had an employee that was unaware of that when she started that she wouldn't be paid during those holidays. So that's really something that we've worked really hard to make sure that our new hires are aware of that ahead of time so they can plan for that. But it's still a hardship to have to go those because this is also the group that doesn't work

331over the summer. You know, they're they don't have any pay during that period and then when they work during the year then we're also asking them to go for periods of time with reduced pay. >> Ariel then Justin. >> Hi question. Hi. How are you? >> I'm Linda the payroll manager. Oh, >> Linda Barrett, a payroll manager. Hi. >> Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you all. I send you an email. I send you an email every other Friday. >> But she was talking. >> Okay. >> Um, and this is this question is not meant to shame people or anything. >> Have we surveyed the 93 It's 93 employees, right? Have we survey surveyed them to see if this is something they want? Because I I know like if you make more money then

332it starts to affect your um your >> your benefits. Yeah. >> Cuz I've known people that went from being parents to being teachers. They thought I was better off being a parent because I made less money. My kids got Arizona state um insurance. I got this got different benefits. So are we sure these 93 people want this >> and they could potentially affect >> Right. We could survey. I mean that's that's something you could ask us to do and then um we would have to go back and do that work and bring it back to the committee for sure if that's an interest of the meet and confer for us to go out and survey that group. >> I wonder if neighbor could speak to any of this because I see bus drivers. Um >>

333well >> yeah let's let's just hear from Justin and neighbor if you want to contribute for sure. Go ahead. Oh, >> is this also looking into like non-paid days? So, I know like a lot of custodial landscaper bus drivers where we have non-paid days where we can't use our PTO. Um, are we addressing that as well too? I know we're that's not PAR, but >> that's that's >> looking into >> that's what it No, it's exactly it's a it's a day. So, right now, if you Oh, jeez. If you look at this, you can see that it's how many days in their work calendar. So, no, we're not changing the work calendar. But, so if we were to add this this calendar then would become let's say we made the paid holidays six. >> This

334would be 186 day work calendar because they would get paid, right? Because of the 209 days right now, they only get paid 183. They have 180 work days. Oh, >> we're not talking about bus drivers. >> We're talking about custodians. >> Yeah. And I'm just talking about like non-paid days because I know this last year I've had a few employees upset because they weren't able to request PTO or personal time for days that the district were not paying >> right. And you can't if it's not a scheduled paid day. And and honestly, that's a much bigger fiscal conversation. We would need a whole committee cuz there's 26 non-paid days and then right here is a let me find somebody like a bus attendant. There's 26 non-paid nonwork days. They're just not contracted days. So they

335can't do anything for them. >> Is there way we could make it so that >> can we just get one conversation at a time neighbor? I'll get to you in just a second. Is it a matter like we can't do it legally or the district just not set up for that for people to use the personal time to pay >> you know holiday pay date? >> Legally you cannot >> you can't or not set up for >> legally you can't unless it's unless it's something developed into the work calendar as a paid holiday. It's the only way you can navigate it. >> Okay. Yeah, >> you'd be adding more days to the work. >> Same thing, right? >> Right. They'd still have 180 days. They would just get paid for instead of 183, they'd still

336have to work 180 days because we need them with our students. Um they would get, you know, additional paid holidays within those days. So, right now they Yeah, >> neighbor. >> Uh I do like the idea of the of a survey going out if they would like it. Although I think the staff that I do with the transportation, the bus attendants that I'm that what I think I think they would enjoy the additional days. But I do like the idea of the um surveying them because I was trying I was talking to Yolanda's little side conversation that I have had staff that when they got more hours it did kind of affect them negatively if they're some sort of state >> assistance. Right. >> So we can um absolutely survey them. Uh, so to that

337point, like >> I don't think those are our 7.8 paras though. >> It'd be interesting to see what's the average increase in dollars for that employee, right? If if you were to do this dollar-wise because I that goes to what Ariel's saying and neighbors saying is because there is a threshold for state assistance uh or other federal things too. >> Yeah. Oh, I do think that was more for like bus drivers. the bus attendants, they're less hours than any of my bus drivers. So, >> and >> still it's just information, right? And you could add that into the survey that people would know, you know, because if they think about those a lot of people >> bus drivers, yeah, get 15 days. >> Okay, other questions. Ivon, >> not a question, just a suggestion for

338messaging if we could make it in a systemwise kind of thing. Like two weeks before a break or an upcoming NAMP holiday for these specific groups that through office managers, maybe they get a paper sleep or a reminder saying, "Hey, remember, >> don't forget >> this coming. This holiday is coming. You're not going to get pay for it. Just a kind reminder." >> Okay. Um, other questions on this topic? Okay, Vanessa, what do you got next? >> Uh, transportation schedule. >> Thanks. >> No, we're going to bring back more information. >> Yeah, >> we weren't going to have you guys decide this today. We decided that before lunch. Um, transportation schedule. Um, it is I don't know how to what's the best way to do it. Okay. Um, it has it is pulled off. It

339is not included in the meet and confer budget dollars. Okay. Are we done? >> What did I talk about anymore? >> Um, >> do they have to make do they have to make a decision or you're just giving information? >> It is a schedule change that will have to go to the board. Our intent is to change excellencia's start time. We are if we can move fast >> tomorrow right now. Bye. Dorothy said >> tomorrow we're leaving at 3:20. Good luck, Nick. >> There will be a deep dive with the transportation staff. We have been working on this for quite a while. Transport neighbors looking at routing software to allow us to be more efficient. Um, we know that we need approximately 8ish bus drivers to implement some of these plans and to expand the

340transportation. Part of the transportation plan and the reason why we want to pull it off of the regular schedule is that we have to be able to maintain the cost. So, the cost right now is looking to be about five it's about half a million dollars. That cost is coming from adding um not only adding the drivers, we we can add them all day long. They sit there unfilled. Um the cost comes from needing to go maximize uh the driver pay to get the drivers that we need to make the change, right? Um and where we're kind of failing, we're not so far out of whack. Uh we're right here at 2003. Um, so Madison's less and Osborne's less. Obviously Wilson, I don't know why I have them in there. Um, Phoenix L Pavey went

341and scraped them all up. Pave is not struggling at all. U, but where we really are kind of out is not that beginning driver pay. It's the the maxes that are posted. So like most of the districts are giving credit to bus drivers for years of service. So when you can get up to 34, that's pivotal. and and so that's kind of what we're trying to navigate. But we know that that starting rate of pay should we know that bus driver behavior tends to be that they will move in mass when they find a better place to go and they usually decide that with money and uh benefits. So, we're creating a transportation plan um that includes not only additional bus drivers, but additional bus driver pay and also abilities abilities to be a van

342driver, a student transportation van driver who can then um career path their way to getting a CDL with our help. We're not 100% sure how that looks, but you can see that in some of the other districts, um, you you get flexible schedules. We're going to be looking at flexible schedules. We just want to make this as enticing as possible. We want to message things like what they've messaged. Um, they have CDL training provided in other districts. This is an option we're looking at and trying to cost out. um which means your van drivers would have the ability to work with our district staff, get trained to get their CDL and become a van driver, grow from within. Um so that changes the schedule all over the place and then gets us um above the

343surrounding districts, but it's costly. So that needs to have um where's our draft? There it is. Okay. So it needs to have a revenue source. The revenue source is the hubs from around our district strategically placed to capture students from other districts whose school districts are closing. >> And so those districts have parents who now either have to be transported a much longer distance and they're not happy about it or they weren't getting transportation in the first place. We will transport them into our district uh with those hubs around our boundaries. We are surrounded by all those school districts you just saw. Um, if we capture 50 students through the program, it pays for itself. >> Oh, back to Excellencia only change start times if everything you just said happens. >> It is happening. Yes.

344>> So, you're saying come August, >> like as soon as next year, >> neighbor, we want to move fast. We have an interest to move fast. We have board support. We have meet and confer support. We have a plan to pay for the dollars that goes towards it. We have a schedule ready to go. The only thing it seems like we really need is to pick our software and to get start marketing and get the word out there so we can capture them. So, we feel we can do it. Neighbor, what do you think? >> I I think it is possible. I like the idea. Um >> let me >> still a concern of mine is so bringing on the drivers. Um >> the other part of it I'm sorry I forgot to talk about

345is that we are also um in talks right now with outsource transportation opportunities that would allow us to temporarily use those types of services while we spin up and hire the bus drivers. So that's what would make it work. So neighbors >> make it happen neighboring the door. >> We are in talks right now um with the principal and the school site and um wanted to get this information to in front of you guys and yeah well because we don't want to say it and then not do it again. So, we needed to make sure that we knew that we could get a sustainable plan. That took a minute. Uh, we knew we needed to pull the schedule off. That took a minute. And we need to get that software. That's going to take a

346minute. Um, but if we can, now that we have support pretty much across the district and we see the interest, um, it's uh, getting some information out to parents and making sure that we don't have like a mass revolt uh, about it, which we don't feel that we will. Um, that's the last the last piece of it. >> Take a minute. The minute of August. >> Oh my gosh. >> Ivonne, >> is is there a way or a strate that we can use to talk to the bus drivers from those schools that are being closed so we can >> Yeah. Go say, "Hey." Um, I'm going to tell you, having worked at one of your neighboring districts, we we did it. >> Yeah, we all did a bus. We Everybody's doing park >> in the

347street. >> And I do want to say that we we have high confidence in the plan because of the timing. So, our strategic timing of doing it means that what typically happens in the past, we all have some dollars and then we all say, "Oh, our bus drivers, we're losing them." So then we put some money to the bus drivers and then the next year the other districts say, "Oh my gosh, look what you did." And they do it. They're closing schools. We don't feel that in the near future they have the opportunity to outcost us on the bus driver strategy. Um so it gives us a couple of years of cushion we feel to be able to put the plan in place see if it's sustainable and ensure that we have the right um

348routing to make that excellencia change >> and it will be aligned with IMA >> at this time I'm not um able to say what start time it would be it would be one of the other two but that's part of the discussions that are happening a lot of it has to do with how many buses are running to those other schools. It'll be a one option. I don't think we have the ability to go out and say which one do we want. I honestly feel like it's the 810, but I don't I just don't know. We We've still got to dig into that part. >> Yeah. >> Can I go and tell everyone tomorrow, can I buy a banner right now and post it in the hallways? I I would say that we are speeding

349down the path to be able to offer the time change for August and that information will be coming out in the very near future if that is going to be a done deal. Until that information comes out, I would just say that it is uh looking likely and that we have lots of support for it >> because I think you have to think about too the impact on your families. If they hear it from >> Yeah. somewhere and not as a district. You could have right if families are not >> and we do have family support from a previous survey. Uh but that is something that we want to um ensure that we still have that support. So it's important to us to talk to our families and make sure that our community this is

350a good win for our community too. Everything that we've done so far and we have done parent surveys. Um this is like needing to finalize it up. It's one last thing because we did that last year. We want to do it in this year >> and I'm pretty sure we have teacher support. Avon, >> I just don't want to lose momentum and communication and messaging, but I don't know how many districts are willing to drive families from an open enrollment or outside the district boundaries to our district. So, I think we we need to put all of the great things that are happening here and put blast them, you know, out there in the community besides outside our uh district boundaries. That's also part of the plan is to market um those hubs outside of

351our district boundaries. Uh especially and I were streaming but we're targeting areas of parents that may not be happy and because we have um schools that are elevating their letter grades and uh working on A+ uh designations and the things that we're doing with SOFG. we are just getting more and more of a district that uh parents want to come to. The other thing that we need to jump on very quickly and another piece of this this plan um is that uh for the first time in I don't even know 15 yearsish um our out of district coming into our district has declined. So we want to make sure that we get on top of that as quickly as we can because that does support our district in a pretty immense way. And then um

352the expanded bus transportation will give us other things to look at in the future. Right now the priority is the hubs and excellencia and increasing driver pay. So um as we phase that in if it is successful if we get those students we we need 50 students. That's not really you know out of 4300 we need 50 students. So, we'll kind of have I don't know if we're going to have like a thermometer jumping every time we get another kid, you know? I don't know. >> But it has to be sustainable. It's not fiscally prudent if it's not sustainable. If it just if we don't get the kids, we will ensure that we have the infrastructure to maintain uh the the pay itself will maintain the excellency of time change. So that's nothing we would

353go back on. But some of the more expanded pieces of the program, if we don't get the students in, that's where we would cut the cost. And that's why we move the schedules off so that those can be navigated separately. We can cost them separately and we can keep track of that program. It has to pay for itself >> and it's not coming out of your dollars. >> Thank you, Vanessa, for your work on this. >> It's been hard. Hey, it's really hard. >> What other pieces of information might you have over there? >> It's working good so far. >> Yeah, we only want good things from here on. >> That's it. That's all I can say. No. Um, everything else is bad. No, I'm just joking. >> She was sandbagging. >> Okay, so um

354here is this document. Uh did I link it? It should be in there. It should be draft summary of cost. So on the meet confer items, it's draft summary of cost. This thing is ongoing and changing constantly. Um as I get better numbers, as we have our discussion. So like in here right now, now I've got this employee medical costs as the yellow is the we're going to do that. So it costed that out. Um and then other things I will just like cross out as they you know they're not options. Okay. Um so we did the years of service adjustment last year and then as um Ariel had pointed out we messaged it as compression and kind of I mean it was one tiny piece of compression and so um with a 2% increase

355in pay some people also got a tiny adjustment or a bigger adjustment for years of service. We had let everybody know how many people were affected. It was like 50 people or more got $1,000 or more. So 50 of our 300 and the other 250 were salty, Ariel said. But they got a 2% increase and then some people got a years of service adjustment. Uh it was only in the certified um schedules. So moving along that path, uh our intent was as the dollars become available to address the years of service adjustment in the other schedules and these are the costs for those. So um I'm trying to kind of got this little E column hanging out there. I don't want to lose sight of the fact that even if there's a zero here, there's

356a $1,000 on the table there, right? um there's a $1,000 increase in that performance pay if the teachers vote that in. So that's an iffy thing right now. It's an unknown. Um but the cost for the classified ESP hourly does not include the bus drivers. I pulled that out. Oh, is that the wrong number? Where are we? Oh, I did not update that. Uh so sorry that's that without the bus drivers. Okay. So that's the cost uh to do the years of service for the classified. This is the cost to do a years of service adjustment for classified exempt. The Sykes, there's two of them and none of them needed a years of service adjustment. Uh the nursing group, a much smaller group. There's like four or five people in here. So there's a small

357adjustment. And then same in this one, there's very small adjustments. This is maybe one or two people that would get a years of service adjustment out of those groups. Those groups are very tiny and a lot of those um the we make up for those in contracted people. Okay. Um so that's that. How much does that cost? That costs 217,000 if we were to move forward with that option. Um, on the classified staff, it would be of the group zero. Some people would get zero, just like the certified did, and some people would get a handful. These are those ones that I showed you where they've been here in the district for 30 years and not moved. They're making $17 an hour. So, these are the ones that are getting bigger increases, and that's what

358that is. It's a handful of those people maybe making 4,000. Um, one of the things I'm working on right now, it's it's very uh timeconsuming, is to go through and have every staff member in the district have a line and then you will be able to see how they are affected after all of these changes. I hope to have that for I will have that for the next meeting um where you will see somebody in all of the adjustments. So, if you're a certified person and you wouldn't get a years of service adjustment, you potentially could get a schedule repair adjustment. The minimum for the certified would be $244. $244. So, then here's a certified staff member. Here's their zero for years of service adjustment. They already got it. $244 minimally for uh schedule repair,

359as we've talked about a bunch of times about those schedules. and then uh the thousand. So we would be able to go line by line every staff member in the district and see how much and get a percentage to be able to communicate out. As Ariel pointed out, we need to be able to communicate this well and say the minimum amount that someone would get after this year's negotiation and and have some talking points. Um, and I'll I'll talk more about the minimum amount in just a second. So, um, there's the 200 and something and then schedule repair for certified uh, is that 153,000. We have not been able to do schedule repair on the rest because classified needs some help and work. Um, and we've talked about it in committee and we have a

360meeting. We've just keep moving through it and keep moving through it and keep moving through it. We're hoping to have some dollars on this this year, but if not, it's one of those things. It's it just takes a lot of our time uh to do this work. Um so that's, you know, we're hopeful to do it in phases. We don't think we can fix all compression in one year anyways. That's why we just did what we could last year with the certified. Uh, I recommend we do what we can this year with who we can and we will still continue to try to work on this. Uh, it makes it a lot easier that we pulled the bus drivers out. That's one less factor. Um, but classified would at the very least be getting a

361years of service adjustment under this under these pieces. It at least is an option on there for you guys to kind of pick and choose, right? Um, let's see. Let's see. Let's see. the question your mean and your max >> men >> um >> how many people are going to fall closer to the >> right >> that's what I'll bring you a line by line you can add them up and that's what I want to talk about too because I think we need to be prepared for once we get the whole list and all of the costs out there there will be a quantity of people that are getting absolutely nothing, right, other than a maybe they didn't get years of service because they're brand new in the district. Maybe they're on a part of

362the schedule that doesn't need repair. So, um I would like to figure out a plan to say some message like maybe it's everyone in the district got at least a minimum like we need to have some plan to give those Z increases if you guys want to. So I think once you have the list and you can see how many people are getting some form of increase which will be all of certified under the performance pay if they agree to it and then a pretty big quantity of the classified all of the bus drivers and transportation department will be getting some adjustment under that other plan that doesn't come out of your dollars. So that's one big group we don't have to worry about. Um so I mean this is just where we're at. Um,

363so these are the dollars right now. And then that increased merit pay. If I can get that off of there, I will. Um, and then here were other ideas. This is when I was saying that we may not have the ability to repair the classified schedules this year. And if we don't, we have other options to give pay increases in those areas for compensation. So on the current schedules, we could move people from where they sit right now up one unit and we call this the A to B. Um so we would move them if they're sitting on A right now. If we moved them to B, uh it's anywhere from 300 or 366 or some of them is 9 cents. I mean, we'd have to kind of look at those dollars and see what

364they come out to. Um so these are the cost of all the schedules if we were to move them one A to B movement. The other thing uh is a potential and we don't because these aren't repaired yet. We haven't really run these numbers but I will get these ones done. Um the other option would be to move the schedules 1% for um then that way everybody would get something again. But it I I don't know if that's the best option. I think some strategic since we're being so strategic with the compression work. I feel like we should probably be strategic with the people that aren't being um touched. And when we talk about the strategy, it can't be something that breaks all the work we're doing or that sets us up to be very

365compressed in the future, which is what happened in the first place and why our schedules are so broken. So, I mean, I would lean towards moving this as a mechanism to help the people who are at zero compression fix and move them so that they get a minimum um increase. You will then have a line by line item that shows you everybody in the district and exactly how much movement each job function would have >> question. How will teachers be able to on their own? >> They will now be on a published schedule that they could find themselves on. which number >> in their contract. >> And that's going to show them if they're going to get the medium or the max, >> it'll show them an amount. So, a schedule looks like this. Um,

366wherever we put those compression schedules, let's go look at them. >> I'm just doing a quick time check. It's 3:11. We're trying to end at 3:30. >> Okay. >> Unless people want to stay and I see lots of nos. Um and I want to give us time to wrap up. So >> here's a schedule for a certified. So uh currently if you're brand new in the district, you have a bachelor's and you have no years of experience, you get $50,000. You'll be able to know what this is. I'm sure people know this about themselves. and then they will know which A to B they're on. Um it's just a mechanism to create those tiers of of uh amounts. So then they could just say, "Oh, I'm an M. I make 54,000." >> So then they

367can show the bottom of the schedule. It's going to show them what their rate is. But how they supposed to know? >> They don't know what they make this year. >> So yes, but how they don't get it? Okay, we can do that. We could we could create a communication that says with the compression fixes, we did that last year and we created letters for everybody who had a compression years of service adjustment. We sent a letter and said you're getting this more money because of this compression work. We could do the same. We could just send it and say, "Here's the breakout of how you got your money this year. You got this much for years of service. You got this much for a schedule fix. And you got this much for whatever." And

368remember the >> everyone would get a letter >> because not everyone was touched. Everyone else got a 2% letter. That's what they got. They got a communication that said you got 2%. >> Well, I can't I can't help that, >> Joel. >> All right. So remember when the contracts come out on March 16th, they will have their salary, current salary on that document and that's going to be based on this year's salary schedule. So then when they're reissued their contract once the addendum is published, then they would see what their change in their salary is just if they're look. So there are multiple places where that could be accessed. So before usually we like to tell people these things before contracts are due. Are we going to give any communication out to people >> before?

369>> Well, the contracts are coming up right after the day after spring break. >> I know. >> So >> we haven't decided on anything. So what communication could we give them? >> Yeah. Remember contracts used to come out in February. So, >> and that's not a guarantee. >> Ariel, contracts aren't due back till April 8th and we have an additional meeting and next meeting we're focusing on compensation. So, that was kind of when Kelly and I set the schedule, we were intentional and thinking about if we're going to message something that's going to happen, let's make sure we have a meeting before contracts are due. So even though they're not they're not in the know on the 16thly after the 26th they will know and we'll be able to at least let them know that

370the board has to approve this but this is the recommendation for meet and confer. >> Yeah. >> And right now what's on the table with the years of service and the compression schedule repairs that we've been able to do is 417,000 including the 46. So, we have wiggle room to do these other ideas to help those groups that aren't getting something. And we can have we can set a minimum threshold and I can price it out. We can say everybody in the district needs to get at least $300 increase and then we price it and we could, you know, make that work in our current schedules. That's why we're repairing the schedule so we can do exactly what Ariel's saying, which is, you know, giving people an exact amount of this is we we moved

371you one of these and that that equals $300. We moved you one of those and that equals $500 as opposed to the across the board percent that is just not seeming to be very palatable in some areas. And we know that this compression has to work and we have the dollars and we've had the direction. So, I wouldn't want to move away from fixing compression. Um, it would just really put us backwards. And this is hundreds of hours of work on me and my staff. So, >> I'm sorry. >> What do you mean by years of service? >> Years of service. >> In Kraton district, >> I know what years of service mean. I mean, what you guys plan to do to years of service? So last year we did a years of service adjustment

372for certified staff who came in and didn't get the So I'm a certified teacher and I have 10 years of service and I walk in and I start making 10 years higher than the person who's been who got here 10 years ago and started on a and never moved. They never got credit for years that they've been in Kraton. And people who were outside of Kraton walked in and got the 10 years right off the bat. So, it was a one-year to move the people up to whatever their years of service were. A lot of them were more than 10 years. So, we made some adjustments in the schedule to absorb that. We obviously can't have that go on to infinity. So, we had to do some cuts. >> Um, but it was giving years

373of service years of service adjustments. So, if you've been sitting here for 10 years and hadn't gotten that 10-year adjustment, you got it. Uh you also just just so people know it wasn't like we never paid attention to those people. They were getting 10 years longevity. So we have tried to take care of it. It just the schedules have made it compressed and really out of whack. So we needed to give the adjustment to get us started fresh. >> Are we doing service again or that you mentioned you're serving those times? That was last year >> for certified. >> Are we doing again this year? only if you decide to give them a A to B. >> I know we did it for people that was the first year in the district. They all from

374A to B, but that's not something we're going to do ongoing. Does that make sense? >> You can do it ongoing. That's why we >> Is it planned to be ongoing or just that one year we move? >> It's not planned for anything. It's planned to come in here and say to you guys, do you want to do it or do you not? Do you have dollars to do it or do you not? So, it's when we have the money, we can do it. Katie, >> I I feel like this has kind of become just like a back and forth conversation rather than a whole group conversation. Could we table this and then move into our statement and then if we have to come back to this next time because we're kind of running out

375of time. >> So let's 569. >> I want to ask Vanessa if there is one more item on there that you have not covered like toward the bottom of that spreadsheet. Oh, you like the bottom the not included in the mink confer or the which one? >> Just if there are other other ideas around compensation. Oh, that special ed thing. Oh, I forgot about that one. That's a big deal. >> Okay. >> Uh, so there's a big piece that we should probably talk about and I don't want to rush and talk about it. It's about the contracted teacher and mitigation. We should put it on. It doesn't come out of your dollars. It's a reinvestment of dollars we're already spending. >> And the APS also. >> Oh, and the APS. We did run the data.

376It is in the meet and confer folder. Um I I could do that one really fast. Um it it's kind of working conditions, but I know there's a lot of interest in this one. So, right now, this is the current AP daily uh rate is kind of what we talk about. So the the um key the logic was contract amounts do not change. That's what I was told. So um all of the APS put together this is their daily rate 3480. They get 24 paid holidays. And um remember we were talking about the uh days on a contract and not on contract and all that. So they don't acrew any vacation. They don't qualify for that. But their contract days are 250. They're 10 days less than the vacation people. And in actuality, one of

377those days is an unpaid day. So, when you look at their calendar, here's their calendar. Um, and you count up all these days of the days that they work and the days of their paid holidays, and it's really right here. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 nine. Nine days that they're not in that working period. And it doesn't feel like a break because most of the time there's work that overlaps. Maybe they're working. It doesn't give them enough time to plan anything really. It's those are these are the thing the conversations that came back. So um what happened was they said what does it look like to be no change in contract 12 months and what does it look like to be no change in contract 11 months. So the daily rate wouldn't

378change because APS are annualized, meaning they get the 26 pays and it's divided up in 26 pays. And so their paycheck is the same every time even though they have it's just the total amount of their contract. So when we're talking about this, they will still get the total amount of their contract. It would just be divided up in various ways. So it doesn't change for 12 month. They then qualify for two additional holidays as a 12-month staff member. So there is a minimal cost of $7,000 to pay for those two holidays for that group. They would then acrue the 7693 per day per pay period which would equal an acred 20 days of vacation after a year. You have to acrue it and then they would have 260 oh 260 contracted days which means

379they have zero days off between contracts. Um, and during the year, depending on if it's a 260day year or a 261 day year, they may, like this year, they would have had one unpaid day. Like I had one unpaid day. Uh, you don't really see it like the hourly people see it because it just comes in in the calculation of the total contract and then it's divided by you get the same pay no matter what. You don't get one day less in your pay uh on a paycheck. So, um, the other cost is future cost of term benefits, they then would qualify for term benefits, but we don't really have a mechanism to know how many days they'd have or what we pay. So, I don't think it's uh important in the conversation. If they

380go to 11month, no change in contract, that means that their paychecks could go up slightly depending upon how many pays they end up getting in 11 months, but their contract amount would stay the same. You're just dividing it up less times. So, if you were 26 pays and now you're 25 or 24 pays, it looks like your per pay per paycheck is bigger. Does that make sense? Sometimes that gets people. Okay. They would then have their 24 paid holidays. That wouldn't change. They would have no acred vacation. Their contracted days would go down, which means that from the end of their contract to the beginning, they would have 20 days off in the summer versus nine, which feels like nothing. So, um, also if they chose, uh, just as we've done in the past, summer

381work could occur, uh, with their school sites based on the school sites discretionary M and time sheet extra pay. So, if they did want some summer work, it would be through their school and whatever is available and summer work and all of that. So, um, those are the options. One of them does have a cost that would come out of your 750,000. I do recommend that the AP should have a say. And if we're going to survey um staff to see if they want the extra holiday, I think we should survey the APS more than one in the room and see what they what they say. Yes. >> Which graphic? >> The the picture of the calendar. >> Yeah, there it is. It's depressing. >> And that cost is total for all AP >> total

382for all of them to add the two days is 7,000. >> All right. >> Either way, you would give either have >> off the 750. >> It would come off the 750. >> Makes me sad. >> All right. >> Uh I honestly don't I I don't feel confident making that uh uh statement right now. We're meeting tomorrow. Um and we can talk. >> You can show them that. It's right there on that link. >> Yeah. I I mean I can tell you that graphic is depressing. But um >> Why is that depressing? >> I It just there's just it's just just it Sorry, >> if you look at mine, all the days are blue. >> All right, so we've got some items. Uh first of all, I think we should give Vanessa and Linda a

383round of applause for all their work. Vanessa just presented a ton of data and information and um >> so I do have a question. >> Okay, we'll be quick because we got to finish up with collaborative uh statement and then agenda. Thank you. >> If we do survey the APS and they say yes, we want it. Does it matter automatically came to consensus or do we still >> No, we're still bring it through here. >> They're just getting information >> kind of like what you're going to do with the classified. I think it's the same as surveying the classified about the holiday pay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I'm asking the question, what happens after the survey? >> They get whatever they want. No, I'm just We still have to make a decision in here

384if it's the best lens for the district, for the work, for all the different things. This one's another weird one because it overlaps with working conditions, which is it's just it's a great it's like a weird squishy one. All right. >> All right. Let's move on to the uh where I'm not putting my stuff up. I I know that um >> I don't really need mine because it just says collaborative statement. So that's okay. But uh I know you've been taking notes. >> So my I think the way we did it that is just the information is in there that gets sent out through the district communication as well. Is there Thank you. So here, uh, thank you Joel for capturing this. Um, pretty much just has our agenda, what we did, what we're doing,

385what we had to, uh, table. >> Thank you. >> Are there any Yes. Thank you, Joel, for doing that. Are there any questions about the what's on there? Um, is the part about like that we made the decision we could come to consensus on? >> Yes. >> Came to consensus. >> Max out of pocket. Max out of pocket. Maximos. Max out of pocket. >> Correct. Yes, I think that's good. >> Absorb premium increase. Yeah, that's fine. for 26. Yeah. And then the creation of a good all right here's what I have that we need to talk about at our next meeting. We got it to come back to performance pay around classified uh transportation changes uh the workload issues, precision, um and then lots of these items within the compensation that we need to take

386a look at to to put on the as options and go through the standards and see what we're going to do. Are there other items that I'm not thinking about that from today? I'm gonna keep that. Well, you have it under compensation. It's hourly or holiday pay, AP, other compensation options around compression and salary stuff. >> Contracted. Oh, sped contracting. Is that what you're talking about? Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. It's been a day. I'm going to let you exit. If anyone has any uh uh thing to share before we leave, let's do so now. Otherwise, I'm going to see you in three weeks from today, I think, to talk about. >> Which medieval dead rat do you feel like right now? >> No. Everybody's feeling great. I don't know about dead rats because there's

387two things. We did a lot of work. We got a lot of information and you're going on spring break in a few days. So, all right. Thanks for the uh conversation, your patience. Thanks again for all the info. Joel, thanks for taking notes. Roxanna, thanks for keeping us on the uh stack. And I'll see you guys in a few weeks. >> Thank you. I'm That's it.