001So, I'm going to move that we approve the agenda as it is. Can I get a second? >> I second. >> Okay. All those in favor? A lot of pressure on you, Amy. >> Okay. Um, are there any We're going to move on to the calls to the audience. Are there any like public comments, Hilda? >> Hold on. I was muted. Um, no, there was not. >> Okay. Um so then in that case we're going to go ahead and move on to like today's works. I'm going to um just go to our rolling notes hopefully. Um so yesterday or last meeting our kind of like homework plan was just really you're just giving your like comments, your questions, your wonderings um about these new policies. So we're kind of starting fresh. Um, and most of
002these are today's focus is like student conduct, but including um, searches and seizures and then also interviews and whatnot. Um, if we can get there. So, the goal for sure is to focus on um, like staff interviews, correct? Is that what 503? Oh, student discipline, I'm sorry, suspensions and whatnot. But if we can get to it, we'll move on to the interviews and all of that. Um, any questions or any like comments regarding like were you able to get to everything or at least a portion of the policies? Just so we know. >> I got through a portion of the policies. I got through the ideal policies but I did not get to the possibly. >> Okay, cool. Uh, what about you, Evan? >> Same. Like just able to kind of look through the original
003like 5306. I didn't get too far deep into the suspensions or the expulsions one. >> Okay, sounds good. So 5306 >> I don't know why I can't find it. Give me one second. All right, so then um I think we for this one then since everybody went through it, we just kind of go through our questions, but then for maybe the next one so that um Evan, you'll get a chance. We can kind of my thought is we do like five minutes of work time on your own. Wherever we stop, we clarify questions. And so rather than doing like the whole policy, kind of chunk and chew it if that's good with everybody. I >> think that sounds good. >> Okay. So I I also had some thoughts and wonderings. Um Amy, you haven't I
004don't know if you've done this part with us before. It literally is we just start at the first comment and just walk our way through um to everybody else's. So once we get to yours, you kind of give a rundown of what you were thinking or wondering um and then we like work through it that way. Um, >> that sounds good. I'm just pulling everything up right now. So, I have a billion tabs open and I wasn't sure if I left them open or not. >> You're good. I had to close all mine out to start over. Um, okay. So, this first one, uh, I was just trying to like keep be thoughtful about like what we were originally like asked to do, which was like make sure that we were being thoughtful about like
005what is the level of like carceral language we're using? Um, because it is based on statute. So is there times where we need to like soften or clarify? And then also like is it matching like our push towards restorative practices? So my comment I didn't do any words smmith thing. I didn't get that far. I just did comments. Um but here it says like uh district may lawfully exercise its authority to discipline a student and then when it's um a suspension or expulsion is involved, notice, hearing, and appeal procedures shall conform to legal requirements. I thought maybe we should put here something along the lines of like it's the district's intention or um expectation that uh students also experience a restorative project of some sort or like um a restorative practice. It should be a
006practice uh to help ensure an understanding of actions and consequences or something like that. Um, >> am I having deja vu again, Audriana? >> Uh, yes, you are because we >> So, we did this halfway um last year. We didn't finish student discipline, but we did get all the way through student rights and that's where we had added that stuff. >> Oh, that's right. I was like, I know we talked about adding something like this somewhere else. Okay, >> so it's added in student rights. I did pull up student rights to see um maybe I did to see like how we set it. Um I can't find it off hand. So that was my that was my thing there is that maybe we needed to um Oh, I just realized I'm not sharing the thing
007that I'm actually looking at. Sorry. >> Yeah, I I think we were following along >> right here. I just remember I feel like James was the one who maybe had like a confusion around all around around that last year and I thought that everybody else seemed not that James was against it. I just remember there being some sort of conversation but that there's everybody seemed to I think I remember consensus around wanting to add something like that. >> Okay. So >> would it be appropriate to have something like it is the intention of the district that students or it is the intention of the district regardless of level of discipline some sort of restorative practice should be applied >> in order to support the teaching and learning and growth of the child. >> I think
008so. Do you mind like just um when we word smith we do it in the comment. will you either reply to my comment or just add another one like what you think that sentence is um or what you were saying right now and then I'm going to go and look and see if I can find what verbiage we used for the student rights. >> Well, here's the something is that usually when I blurt it out loud is when it's the best and when I try and word it doesn't come out very good. Um, but I will try my best. Let me see if I can Oh, wait. Here. Okay. So, we have in 5305, I think that's what this one is. Um, any violation of these policies and procedures. Actually, I'm going to copy and
009paste what we have um to the highlight like do we just want to repeat this sentence here? restoration of the learning community and/or community relationships will be included in any disciplinary action relative to the committed infraction. That's kind of >> um >> I like what you said actually on that. I think >> No, I see it's right below. >> Okay. >> It's the I think that actually makes more fits a little bit better with like what you wrote. It is the intention of the district that restoative practices be applied to any level of disciplinary action. I think we put that personally. >> Okay. >> What are your thoughts, Evan? >> No, I agree. That sounds a little bit more like what what we currently do. Like that's that's our intent, right? That there is restorative
010practice to every discipline situation. Um that sounds more I don't know. I I understand what that says, whereas the other one I'm like, what do we do? >> And I don't know about like the whole part of it. I think just like the I mean if we want to change the part about like repair damage like that can totally be word smith I was just trying to like vomit it out before I lost my thought. >> Yeah. I think it's just repair harm is more commonly. So I'm just going to change it to harm >> to the learning community is kind of what we have on all the other ones. >> Perfect. Thank you. Um I'm going to leave the comments this time. Usually we clock check them out, but I don't know on the
011off chance that James wants some reading. He'll have them there. Um okay. So the next one is um oh clarity of the process. Okay. So the principal of each school shall ensure that a copy of all rules pertaining to discipline suspension. Um Hilda, this might be more of like a J actually it's technically an Emily question. In the principal um meeting, the team meeting that we have that um uh exec cabinet joins. >> Mhm. >> We asked about the compact and like they're putting together like a whole districtwide compact. I just wanted to see if we as principles can assume that this these copies and rules will be in that compact. Um otherwise I sorry this is not a policy thing. This is like actually in practice. Right now we all rely on our um
012like the hand the enrollment packet and like the thing kids sign every year. >> Yeah. >> Or on the middle school and I know they're changing it. So, can they just assume that it's still going to be included? >> I would assume that it is. Which which policy is it again? >> Um, so it is the parent compact policy. >> Oh, I'm pretty sure it'll still be in there. >> It's um it's what we put with the suspensions. Do you remember what the title is, um, Evan or Amy? Because it's got like first it's like parents will like feed their children and make sure they're at school on time and then it's like >> parent responsibility >> compact. Is that what it's called? >> Something like that. It's like parent responsibility something. >> I know.
013I'm trying to think. I think I'm going to just say >> can you put a comment and then I'll make sure to ask Jay or Emily. >> Okay. >> It might be compact. They're calling it a parent accountability form. >> That's what it's called >> on the suspension document. It's called JIC-R parent accountability form. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Is that in our new policy though? Because we don't do JIC's anymore. >> No, it's in synergy. >> Yeah. >> Oh. Um, can we make sure that the new district compacts include I'm going to put in parentheses what we now refer to. Okay. So, this is off topic but relevant. Do you want us to ask Lara to take off the JIC on the synergy? They need it no matter what. We like need to have
014that form signed because it's what's going to cover us for this new policy. But the title is wrong. Do you want me to just see if Laura can change the title or maybe Amy? I don't know if that's your job. I don't want to overstep. >> Um I honestly don't know whose job that is. So, but if I think it needs to align to our new policy. So, if it doesn't align to our new policy, then it should be and I did not look at it closely enough to even notice that it was not aligned. >> It the good thing is it's aligned. It's more of just >> like a clerical error. then it needs to be changed to whatever number our policy uses now for that. >> Yeah, that like I and so maybe
015that's a Russell question like and then um I think like but definitely needs to be aligned. So I just don't know. >> Yeah. >> And then I can send a message to Dr. Pombo and let her know >> um that it's not aligned currently. it has the old policy on there and that um are you okay if I send an up a message to Russell asking him to get it help us update it? >> Yeah, I think that makes sense. >> I can do that now. >> Um and then let me think. >> Yeah. And then you would tell her that it would align that the title would need to be um 5-306 student discipline. I just want to make sure that the policy it goes then to like 5306B and stuff. Yes. Um that
016the new one is 5306. Um is it just student discipline? Yeah. >> So, I just said we realize um on the new suspension form and synergy it lists the old policy, but it should list the new policy 5-306 student discipline. >> Yeah. Um, >> you want to probably tell her like, um, on synergy the new suspension forms includes the form and whatever Evan just said it was titled. Um, and then and that form includes old policy numbers because I don't want her to think that it's like the >> Sorry, I need more clarification on that. My >> You're good. Um, so you're going to tell her the new synergy suspension paperwork includes the form um, parent accountability. >> Oh, it's a parent accountability form within the suspension form. It has a second document. That's the
017parent accountability form. >> Okay. So, we realized the parent accountability form um includes old policy coding. And then so to be up to date, it should refer to policy 5-306 student discipline as opposed to JIC whatever JIK or whatever it is. Um, and while we're at it, it's never really made sense to me that it was the parent accountability form because it's actually outlining progressive discipline. So, if I ruled the world, I might actually call that form like um I don't notification of progressive discipline of of Kraton school's progressive discipline because that's really what it's doing. There is that part where the parents are like, I promise to like feed my student and bring them to school, but that's like not what we use it for. >> But that's what but it that part is
018on there because that is so I don't know if we can change that because that part is also supposed to be on there and I believe >> Oh, I think you keep that part. I just mean literally the title >> but I think that's why it was called that. So, >> okay. I guess my Okay, I don't actually care. But I do think that maybe >> the document would still have the same name. Like it's still the parent accountability document. I don't think we're changing that. I think like right now it says as per JIC-R parent accountability form has been signed and is on file. All we're saying is we should change I think as per whatever policy 5036 student discipline >> been signed and is on file. itself I think would stay the same.
019>> That's what Yes, that's what we were saying. And then I was like, but you should change the title because it says nothing about progressive discipline or suspension or expulsion in terms of the title. So like if I was a parent, I would be like I'm accountable to the suspension. I think that part >> that but I don't care and it's not worth it's not worth like three months trying to figure that out. But especially if it's supposed to be like a family thing in a different part of the policy. Okay, cool. So, yeah, if you can ask Jay and then if Lissa gets back to us, we should be good as long as like that's where we end up having to do that. This one I did need like conversation. I feel like information
020concerning a student's disciplinary record will be held in the strictest strictest confidence. I think that makes total sense because we talked about Furpa, but I also feel like it leaves it leaves an opening for a family to be confused or upset that information was shared. Like we do share it >> like inter school, right? So like if they move to a different school, you're you would have access to those records. Um, so that so I I just wondered like is this one of those situations where we we the the policy makers are keeping it vague so that we have opening or do we need to be more specific? I don't know. I think we keep it in in that like information concerning a student's disciplinary record will be held in the strictest confidence. Is that's
021what you're saying? That section? Well, I mean it it we are it's not like we're sharing it with all of the schools and it's only the people that need to know and if the child does transfer to another school. It's not like they're automatically going to go look at the student suspension paperwork, but should things start to arise, they might look and say, is there a pattern um that we might need to provide some more support? So, I don't I don't think there's anything wrong with that. >> Okay. I okay I think >> personally I just don't know >> if you were a parent reading this and you saw strict strictest confidence would you realize that there is a window where we will tell it or do you think that means we keep it secret
022because I think if parents >> I don't read it as it means we keep it secret like for example if I were to have a child that has an IEP right the only people who know about the IEP is the people that are like on her who are teachers that might travel with her, but if she transfers to another school, then the IP will follow and then those people would be informed. That's how I'm reading it. Like maybe we do that. >> Need to know need to know. >> I think maybe we do that. What if we include like just a little part that's like as like outlined in Furpa? I think we're making it over complicated, but that's my personal I just I think that I always am in the lens of like when
023a parent is yelling at me, what am I pulling out to defend my actions? And I worry that if I had a parent being like this school knew that this hap I you know I don't know. So I'm okay leaving it especially Evan if you're like you're overthinking it cuz your girl your girl does it. I think a lot. Um, but that's where I'm coming from is like, yeah, the end. I've already said my piece. What do you think, Evan? I don't I could I could go either way. I have had a parent that was upset that we shared the suspension paperwork with the school that the kid was transferring to. She felt like that breached his privacy when he arrived at the new school that they already knew that he'd had a disciplined situation.
024Um, >> we share records like a records request and they like they want attendance. They want >> That's why I'm I think it's like it's not unreasonable. Sorry, I totally cut you off. >> Oh, no, you're fine. >> No, and that that is what we shared with her. Like they request, you know, all these things and it's our responsibility to to share them. Um, >> and at the previous school when she registered, she signed giving permission. >> Right. >> So, um, and I mean it's a student record. I mean, she can't pick and choose what she wants. >> Yeah. >> The other school to receive. >> Yeah. I don't know. I think maybe we just leave it. >> Okay. >> Because we are holding it in the strictest confidence, >> right? We're not putting it
025on social media. But we're not like sending a mass email districtwide. >> Yeah. And just like Hilda said, you know, and that the exception is when you're signing a release like that, then you know they're not holding it. If you're signing a release, you're signing a release, right? >> Okay. Sounds good. All right. So Amy, you're the next comment. So what are you thinking? >> Sorry. That is my dog in the background that is whimpering because it's 5 o'clock and it's dinner time and my daughter probably fell asleep. So >> I can't hear it if it makes me feel better. So, um I if you hear any whimpering, that's what it is. So, I apologize or yipping at me. Um I think that's an old comment. I think that was when I was going through
026like numerous policies um that I realized it was in a different section. So, um I think that's fine just to ignore. Okay, sounds good. I'm gonna take that one off. Um, and then the next one, uh, this was a question for Jay from last time, so we'll skip that one. It's just more details about the family leaving, um, or the teacher saying a student can't be in their classroom. >> And then the next comment is Amy's about the failure to follow rules, cheating, and or plagiarism. Um, and I was looking for something else and I happened upon that oh dang it it AI is included in something I can't remember the policy hold on let me pull it up but it said something about like uh gen like something generative it was really weird how
027they said it because they didn't say it like AI um and it wasn't artificial intelligence like something you would think is >> obvious okay student rights I was like, I don't remember seeing anything about that. But that I was just wondering like >> I think you should include it. It's like huge right now. >> Yeah. >> Give me one second. I have to wait for the um website to load. >> And that's why I put that on there. I was just like wondering like or do we have anything that is AI specific just because it is very, you know, prevalent with students. And honestly, I use it. It's not like I think it's a bad thing. >> Um, but how do we teach them to use it appropriately so that that's not the only thing
028that they're using? >> Sure. >> I think it's in 305 it says. >> Okay. So, in 305, which is student code of conduct, there's forgery, plagiarism, and cheating. And it says, "A student shall not use or attempt to use the or attempt to use the identity, signature, academic work, or research of another person." And then in parentheses, it says, "Or of a generative artificial intelligence application." Oh, I guess it did say artificial intelligence. Um, and that it is the students own as the students own. So, it does include it just in that one line. I don't know if we want to like add it um to that. I mean, if it includes in then I totally think that's fine. I just think it like I know when I read it I was a little bit
029like >> I didn't see anything about it so I was wondering. >> Yeah. So it is in there if they are cheating or plagiarizing um AI is in the conduct part. So I think we should be good. Um and then okay so then the next one was Sorry, I feel like I had a question here too, but um I don't know. Okay, so then you're one questions about a student who cuts to faces or otherwise injures. It's weird that they anthropomorphize. What was your question or concern, Amy? I was trying to be a good steward because people are coming home and it was got noisy so I muted myself. >> I just and maybe this goes to what and I'm reading thinking too much into this situation or it's happened several times and I just
030don't know what the correct avenue and maybe this isn't the correct place. Um but in situations like this where it has happened where a student has intentionally broke something um and cause damage to the the school itself. I'm just but they're how I guess how can we ensure um they're they're liable for the damages caused and it's not at a school cost. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yep. >> So, I don't know if you've both experienced similar things. Um but we we had a few more than we should have. Um, and I guess that's where I'm just with how it doesn't go back to the school as a cost. I just, and maybe this is not something that we need to put in policy. It's just a concern I wanted to bring up.
031>> Okay? >> Like for example, there's laws that say like in prior years, if library, you know, a child destroy destroyed a library book, they had to pay for the library book before they um got their report card. But now there's a law that says we can't hold report cards. So, I guess what is our avenue in terms of holding things accountable is my question. And this is maybe more of a concern I just need to bring up. Like I don't know, and I maybe this isn't the proper place, but um I've just seen that happen on more than one occasion. >> Katie says she's going to look up the statute to see if there's anything. >> But I mean, I think if a parent can't pay for it, I mean, we really can't force
032them. No, I mean, so let me clarify, too. It's not necessarily where >> they can't pay for it. It's the refusal. >> Yeah. I I guess is like or we've done things like um payments or you're going to do things to give back to the school and that there's like the blatant refusal from the like the student can let's say broke a window and said like intentionally broke a window. Okay. The maybe if the family can't afford then they they're going to do things in order to repair damages or do things for the school, you know, something like that. and um the blatant refusal of it or I I don't know. I think I'm just jaded. >> No, that's uh we do require Yeah, I know what you mean. It's like very iffy cuz it's
033like you're just recklessly destroying things and then there's like of no cost to you. Um so that would be good to know. I don't know. I don't think it goes it would be a procedure at least. So, if we did want like a procedure for 5306, like a 5306 C um student liability, we'd have to make it. But I think we'd also between the statute and what the lawyers say to figure that out, but we wouldn't be able to just add it here, I don't think. >> And maybe this is more of a conversation. I think it's just a frustration I had. And I I don't know. I'm assuming you you said you both experienced similar things. >> Yeah, we have. Um, >> I I'm sorry. I was I was looking up the answer and
034my kids got home, but um so I think we could just put I and I also put the captions on so I was also reading what you guys were saying at the same time. But um I think we could put like potentially liable because I just I also a agree there's really no way the real enforcement mechanism of that is if we were to take a family to small claims court at the end of the day and even then we can't guarantee that they're going to be liable. So I think you could just put potentially liable. >> Oh well we have it's are liable. Well, I'm saying are liable because I mean, we could say, "Oh, you're responsible for this money, but at the end of the day, they could tell us to f off
035>> unless we take them to court." There's no way to say that they're liable. You get >> Yeah. No, I I got you. I just am thinking I don't even want to bother putting potentially and just be like, "No, you are." >> Okay. >> Unless you're like, I don't It's one of those things like, "Well, I don't want to say something that we can't reinforce and then I can see our potentially." But >> I mean, I think at that point you would kind of transfer it to the superintendent. >> Yeah. >> You know, and let him determine if >> we're going to make them pay or not. >> Okay. I think that's fine with me. It So, if you're good to sleep at our label. Um >> Okay. >> I thought you were bringing up
036something different because I think this is just weirded weird. It basically makes property like it anthropomorphizes it. So I'm just wondering like when you go to student >> I'm sorry what did what did you say at what >> yeah I was like bring it down a level Adriana it is 5 o' um it basically gives like a not living thing like uh living qualities like um you don't really injure property you can't but you can like cause destruction to it basically who cuts to faces and otherwise injures you'd think they're talking about a person not a tree or a stop sign. Um, well, I guess even a tree would have made sense. So, we also don't talk >> the word injured needs to be changed. >> Yeah. I feel like vandalism, we have it listed
037as like shall not damage, destroy, or deface. I feel like we just >> Yeah. I don't know why it says injures. Yeah. >> I don't even know if that's like language that they would use in civil court. So, that seems just strange in and of itself. Unless there's something I'm missing that I don't know. >> Yeah. Could it be destroyed or >> I'm going to just >> I mean because damages and defaces are already cover all that >> damages or defaces. >> Could it mean because like when it says injures like had they caused bodily harm to another student that >> that's up here further. That's up higher. >> Okay. So that that's why I was just wondering if that like if they >> intentionally like >> were being unsafe and a student's arm got
038broken, could they be held liable? You know what I mean? >> But this is specifically have to do with school property. >> Okay. That's why that doesn't make sense. Injures. >> Yeah. Injur sounds weird. >> Yeah. So I'm going to put I'm going to put just what's in the student conduct um and then strike it out. Uh okay. So then the next one is um oh okay so I went this was like a big old thing last year about like is it harassment is it intimidation is it bullying what order are we putting it in um and so I just wanted to make sure that it's harassment intimidation or bullying that's what we're currently calling it and what's interesting is if well you would be so interested um when you go to I'm going to
039share this tab it'll be easier when you go again to 305. They're all kind of in different spots. So, um harassment is with bullying is on its own. So, it does say that we like you can't harass people. And then bullying is also on its own with cyber bullying, but intimidation is not included on its own except for within the umbrella of like secret societies and hazing. >> So that leads me to two things. One, I feel like intimidation needs to be highlighted with maybe threats, like it should be threats and intimidation. Um >> I think that might be state statute and there's a typo in the policy >> is there >> it's in the very first words >> the initiation >> is that what >> should it be intimidation >> that's what I wondered
040too but then I realized this is the secret society thing so it's like what it's saying is like you can't bring people into it you can't haze them and then you can't also intimidate them. That's why I'm saying it's a little confusing because okay, fine. Don't initiate secret societies, like you shouldn't be starting them up. But I feel like intimidation has to be clearly listed with threats, bullying, and um or harassment. Or if it was like we just made it like a 20 or whatever the end of this is 34, and we um talk about like you can't intimidate others. >> Which uh what policy number is this again? I'm sorry. >> This is 305. This is student code of conduct. >> Oh, we're still in student code of conduct. Okay. >> Well, we were
041in we were in discipline. >> Oh, we were in student discipline. That's right. So, it's 5305 or >> Yes. Yeah. And it just lists all of the things basically like um kids like can't do on campus. And it just doesn't very cleanly say intimidate others, which I imagine it's because intimidation is very gray perhaps. But there have definitely been times where students are getting intimidated by others and there should be a consequence for it and they're not like actively doing a threat. Like I I tried to just see like is it because they want threat to cover it but a threat. >> Wait, are you on what number are we on for the intimidate? >> Uh 305 is I'm looking to >> I'm on 305, but what number of the subsection is the >> There
042is no subsection. >> But where were you just with the hazing thing? Um, hazing is sorry, let me just >> Oh, gang under gang activity. >> No, initiation 20. >> Oh, so we're in 305. The second thing, the not the policy, but the other thing. Hold on. >> No, this is the policy. Sorry, I kind of jumped around. Basically, >> I'm on policy 5305, but it doesn't have a list of 20 things. Are you on the 5305A? >> No, >> I think you're in the >> I'm on the actual policy that's posted right now. Hold on. Let me go through because we were looking >> I'm on too, but there's not a list of 20. >> Really? 5-305 student code of conduct. >> Yeah, it's that says disruptive. It starts with number one. Disruptive. Is
043that the very top of the policy that you're looking at? >> Yep. on the very top of my policy says policy 5-305 student conduct the superintendent will establish procedures governing the code of conduct of students such regulations will focus on behavior expected by students while in the school traveling to and from school and at school functions are affecting the school order there's no like list of 20 things for the one I'm looking at >> oh there's two so maybe I'm on procedure maybe I was on the procedures hold on it just it totally just kicked me off so now I got to go all the back. >> Okay. Oh, no. Yeah, that is 5305.Aa. Okay. The the 20 things. Okay. >> So, if I go to >> So, what I was bringing up, sorry, because
044I was addressing the issue. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Where did you Okay. You saw Okay. Sorry. Initiation and hazing. A student shall not engage in any activity involving initiation, hazing, intimidation, assault, or other activity related to group affiliation. Um, where's the one that says gang activity? Okay. Well, I the only thing I could I could kind of draw this parallel to is that um because it brings up intimidation in the initiation and hazing section. You know, they got did away with the gangs and secret societies um policy. Essentially, there are specific statutes that have to do with threatening and intimidation a as a crime in and of itself, and there are specific penalties and and enhancements when that has to do with gang related threatening and intimidation. So, I want to say that that because
045that's in the hazing and initiation section, I'm going to assume that it has something to do with coming from those old policies that were together like the gang and secret societies. Okay. So then in practice, I guess what I'm asking is it says intimidation, but this very much feels like intimidation as a result of a secret society. I want to punish, let me tell you what I want to punish for. I want to be able to tell a family that like your student is getting this consequence because they are continuing to try to intimidate this other student. They're not like going to their face and being like, "I'm going to beat you up in the bathroom." But like they're standing outside their classroom watching them walk from one classroom to the next or they're waiting
046at their bus stop even though they don't ride the bus. Um, and I don't feel like it's super clear in there, but if you think having intimidation within 20 is enough, then I'm good. Do you not think that it would be it would not be under number 12 threats? >> That's what I was wondering. It feels like it's >> but that's the what I'm trying to say is that threats is like a direct like you directly were intimidating like you directly were planning on fighting them. So you like went to them and said something. But intimidation can be like a nonverbal. It could be like body posturing. This is like we talked a lot about it last year and I don't have any care or concern but in the synergy it's has been in the
047past threats, bullying and intimidation. So you put them all together in there but you have clarified this was as a result of intimidation versus this is a result of a threat. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I guess I could see it being as like a type of a threat but also as a type of harassment. one of the two. I know the way that we define harassment is also a little weird for me, but >> yeah. >> Um I guess >> it's hard to um define intimidation I guess is my thing. So if we don't I mean do you think that we okay what would the difference be then between harassment and imitation I can't even talk intimidation >> um harassment okay this is so ridiculous or not ridiculous but it was like so
048nuanced okay so what we established was that harassment was like Um, basically it was like the how you were bothering them like you were doing it through like what it says here like sexually um or it might be like words, action and jokes but intimidation was like more um perceived I guess and I'm fine with if if we're going to do I just want to know where does intimidation fit because it's listed it is listed in the one that we're supposed to be looking at. I promise. Um, but it doesn't actually show up in the other parts right here. So, it says incident of harassment, intimidation, and bullying, but we don't say anything about intimidation in the conduct. The basically the thing that sets the expectations, we say nothing about intimidation. We do about harassment
049and bullying, but nothing about that. I want to keep it, but I feel like if we were going to keep it, we need to add it to the conduct. And if we're going to take it out or not add it, then I think we have to take it out. But that makes me >> Well, I'm wondering though because when you go into synergy and you list things, threats, harassment, intimidation is all listed as one, isn't it? >> It and then you have to you have to like connect. Yes, they were all in like the umbrella, but then you have to like do like a secondary like Well, which one of it is it? When I think like when I put it in or when I think about it, I think like it's um like progressive
050to me. Harassment seems lower in severity to intimidation. >> So like when I think about it like in terms of like discipline or consequence like I would give a smaller consequence to like harassment than I would intimidation. >> Yeah. And that and it it it was the one that we like said was in the middle ground. It was like, >> yeah, >> cuz you're not automatically getting bullied. You could be getting harassed cuz bullying has those other components. So like harassment happens and then like intimidation um is >> basically when the harassment becomes like a physical like intimidate it might be like a physical danger and then like the threats is like a clear >> articulated threat or articulated whatever. We can table this too because I know we're um I just that's where we
051have I mean I like where you guys are going with if I I would say format things the way that they you know kind of already are in your in the system makes sense. So I would just want it to make yeah whatever makes sense for the tools that we have. For me, I think it makes sense. Then my vote would be leave intimidation here that you if you're found that you're intimidating others, you could be disciplined. But then I think we need to either add it to this list. >> Is intimidation somewhere other than the hazing and initiation? Because I wasn't finding it. Okay. I was just making sure. >> Yeah. No, it's only there. And in our previous policy, it was its whole own section. >> Um Oh, okay. in the like because
052we did we like were like this is what bullying is, this is what threats are, >> but it's missing from here. So, I could just put like a comment that's like include a descriptor of what intimidation is in student conduct and we leave it there and move. >> Can we just Yeah. Can we copy it from the one that we did last year or >> Yeah, I'll try to find it. Um Okay. So, then let me all caps. We need to add Okay. Um, oh, this was just we said the like principal should ensure the copy of the rules and I didn't know how that was different from how we have it up here. So, I was like, do we do we need it on both areas or am I not seeing how they're different?
053>> Wait, is it the same sentence? >> I think so. I mean, I was also doing this quickly, but here's the sentence up here. Okay. >> And then when you scroll all the way down here, here is the sentence again. >> What is that numbered list pertaining to though? >> This is um >> suspension and students. >> I think this is all the ways kids can get expelled. >> The one that they have it twice transferring though. So I wonder if that one's more specific to like if a kid transfers in that new principal will ensure that you have a copy. >> Oh, okay. >> Because this one, the top one only talks about enrolled, but then that bottom one adds transferring. >> Should we take that out and put it up at the top
054then? >> I could see that. Maybe just adding the transfer part to the above. Yeah, like move this up here because it's just like we'll suspend you because of this and because of this and because of this and oh by the way we'll like give you a letter about it too. Like I don't understand why that's there. All right. So I just take this part, right, Evan, is what you were saying. Take the or transfers into the school and add it here. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Then I'm going to just there. Now this is how it is. Okay. And then Okay. So the next comment Okay. This this is maybe not a conversation for uh like this part necessarily, but just thinking about like how does how are we all doing this in practice. So
055the beginning part is like yeah if you're defending yourself um and you can justify it that will impact whether or not we will like suspend. Basically, it's saying like self-defense is an mitigating factor. And then it gives reasons why it would not be considered self-defense. And so it says like just because they're saying they want to fight you. Um and then uh what else? The weapons policy and then if they're excessive or deadly. I was just wondering is there anything else that you guys say that we think we should include? like we we stole from the previous gateway assistant principal retaliation as a concept and then we use window of safety. Um and so basically what we tell the kids is like um there are two reasons when this moves away from self-defense and it
056becomes something else. Um if you have a window of safety. So, if there is a time in this incident where you could have gotten away to keep yourself safer or you could have done something to keep yourself safe, um then you then you're basically just like kind of like joining in. Like you're agreeing to fight and that's not self-defense. So, um like you know if you knew that they were going to meet you in the bathroom to fight you or jump you and you went to the bathroom like you missed your window of safety or like sorry I'm telling you the way I tell kids. Uh I don't mean to sound so patronizing. Um, or like if he punched you in the face once and you punched him and then he kind of was like
057standing there and you walked away, you used your window safety. But if he punched you in the face and then you just like pummeled him on the ground, like you could have gotten safe, you just chose not to. Um, and then the retaliation that was Brian's thing was um, once you've taken care of yourself and you are like act like continuing the situation to get vengeance or to like um, I don't know prove that you could fight, that's considered retaliation and that kind of takes away from your self-defense uh, argument. So, >> so the only issue I have with the window of safety is that it's not actually the law. >> Yeah. Like let's see, say they got like a juvenile dependency or juvenile delinquency referral out of some conduct at school, right? um they
058would still be able to like because we don't have any duty to retreat in Arizona even if you're not at your home. As long as you're somewhere lawfully and you're not participating in some unlawful act at the time that something occurs, you can use basically we don't need to get into this, but you can use force. And it doesn't even have to be the same force that the other person is using. You can use up to deadly force depending on if a jury would buy it's reasonable or not, right? Um in any circumstance if you feel like either your life is in danger or you feel like you're getting going to be injured or something like that basically depending on the situation. >> So I wouldn't want to put it in policy, I guess I
059would say, just because it's not the law. Um and and I would hate to require something more of our students than would be required of them if they were even in the juvenile system. >> I think my only push I'm indifferent. Fine. We don't need to include it. It is more of just like is there something we should include? And I think my only I do have push back in the sense of I just I have friction with the fact that like we could be like, "Oh, that kid pushed you in the back of the head and you thought what the appropriate thing was to like resolve it is to like jump on them and like start beating them on the floor." You get to call that self-defense. Well, I mean, they can call it
060whatever they want, but at the end of the day, that is that going to is that going to stand up? No. I mean, if if the person's already turned around and you're jumping on them, then you're not in imminent danger of anything anymore. So, then you wouldn't be able to say it's self-defense. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> The the danger is already gone. or if if somebody, you know, accidentally bumps you in the in the hallway and you say sorry and then you decide to punch them in the face, like that's not reasonable. You know what I mean? >> So then maybe it's not like So I think I think that's what I'm trying to get at is like it's not reasonable. Like maybe that's what I'm trying to say. Should we
061add something about like reasonability to like your actions? Um >> I think that Lee makes it super subjective. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm going to also say this, like, you know, that might be a reasonable response in a different neighborhood versus a different, you know, like if I was at home versus I was at. So that I just think it just makes it super subjective. >> Well, oh, hold on. I'm going to push back on that because like >> I agree like we don't >> No, let me start over. I I agree. We do need to be thoughtful about like the cultural like have a cultural awareness including the neighborhood but at the same time we are an institution and so there is a code of conduct for an institution whether or not this would
062be how you would like handle your business like at the park it should not be something that we use to couch like they can do they can do it. >> Let me clarify I I'm not questioning that part of it. But I'm just saying I think like the reasonable is very subjective and what might be reasonable in one circumstance is not reasonable in another. And that's why I don't think we should have that. But I feel like maybe this is the hill I die on. Sorry guys, I don't mean to be contankerous, but like I do feel like you need there needs to be an understanding like there's going to be subjectivity in this. And this is a part where I I want to reserve the right to be subjective because I think more often
063than not, I have parents come in. That's not fair. Not more often than not. I have had times where a parent has come in and they they believe that because their kid defended themselves, however they chose to defend themselves, it was okay. Um, and so I just and like we're going to get into reasonability later on because we use it for searches. >> I I I know. I just cuz I think you're thinking it I'm wondering I'm thinking of like I'm defending my actions as the institution in the policy like I I do think parents need to know there is a level of subjectivity that they may may or may not agree to but that is warranted like you know because I do I have parents who come they're like well I told my kid
064if somebody puts hands on you you beat their a um and they don't get up from But like you know th those are your family beliefs but we're an organization and this is >> we already have it right here. It just says right there whether the physical force threatened or used by the student in the situation was justified as being the action of a reasonable person of simil similar age and experience. That's the reasonable standard. >> Where is it? in section one under student defenses >> and whether the >> Okay. Well, then we don't even need to worry about this. Um, is there anything else though that you guys think should be like notwithstanding like added like from what you've seen at your schools or does this feel like it covers how you are handling
065student defenses? I mean, I didn't add much to it because I felt like it was pretty much like the standard of practice that we already used and we are so >> Okay, Evan. >> Yeah, I think it's I think it's okay. It's it is vague but like covers I think. >> Okay. too. >> Um, the next part I I put a question because it kind of feels like they're talking about when we used to have Compass, but then it also seems like it could be like the FBI. So, I was like, what what's this rooted in? Is this supposed to >> the FBI? Like, >> no, no, no. It's a It's a placement that can be temporarily for students. >> I was like, what? No. Yeah. I mean, I think we just got to leave
066it in there because, you know, as things change over time, you never know what alternative to suspension programs are around and we just got to leave it. >> Okay. So, then my only >> Okay. I just wasn't sure. I I think there was something else with it, but I just was like, what is this supposed to be? Is this because we had compass at one point or not? But that sounds good. Um and then criminal activity. This was I felt like we had I feel like we keep doing this like we'll contact them if we feel like it's necessary but we have shall everywhere. So this was more of just like what what are we saying like blanket across the board on the process or the policies and then do we need to clarify when
067So, it's actually kind of more of a Katie question, too, because you were helping navigate this part for us. >> Sorry. Can you I'm sorry. The doorbell rang. One of my kids needed to use this bathroom. >> No, you're good. I'm also like sitting in the dark like a kidnap person. >> Okay. Criminal activity. Right down here, it says that shall contact law enforcement if a student is suspected of committing a crime. And I know >> Yeah, that's weird. And I know we've we've like massaged the messaging, but I just am not quite sure how it's supposed to sound or what aligns to like the statute and stuff. >> I think it's supposed to be the principal or designate. I think we put it other places, but shall contact law enforcement if a student is
068suspected of violating or is suspected of committing a crime as outlined in ARS13-76. ARS what? >> 13-706. >> Okay. Anything else for this one? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. So, I'm going to put on the progress for today's meeting that we've completed this one here. Um, all right. So, then the next one we're talking about is 5-306A. Um, I don't think I Oh, I had I did go in and look. Did you have a chance, Evan? Did you have any comments or anything? Or do we do we want to do like the Do we want to start the like five minutes read through and add your comments and come back together? >> Yeah, maybe I could I could use five minutes to to look through it if that's okay. >> Yeah, that's fine.
069I don't care. Um, all right. So, then we'll give it like five minutes. I'm gonna turn off my screen though when when we're reading. Otherwise, I just look like I'm struggling. Hey Dana, I'm sorry to bug while we're reading, but um I put in the chat another part that needs to go after where we put the thing about 13706 because it's not just those types of crimes, but also the drug crimes. >> Oh, okay. So, however you can word Smith, adding that part in there after the dashes >> sounds good. I don't know why I can't Oh, there it is. I see the chat now. Okay. >> Thank you. Sorry. >> Oh, you're good. Wait. The only thing I see in the chat is our notes that we're looking at. >> Did you put it
070in the notes or did you put it on the dock? >> I put it in the chat for the call. >> Can you do it one more time? I don't know why I can't see it. Oh, here it is. ARS. Okay, got it. >> Sorry. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. I could be ready to talk about the top part. I know it's already 5:45. >> Okay, perfect. Um, >> can I ask one more question since I know it's about the last and it's about the last section, but you know how like especially in this section it's or in the last thing it said that basically you know a school can deny some a student who's been expelled from another educational institution. Um, and how it also had the section about you can be expelled for
071excessive absenteeism just feels a little counterintuitive or productive to me. >> I don't even think I noticed. Um I think it says that yeah you can be it's I yeah right there a student may be expelled for continued open def use or or excessive absenteeism at the end. I thought that was weird because then it's like okay well then are we discouraging them from going to school ever again. >> Yeah that's weird. >> I maybe we could ask Jay about that if that's something that is required or like can we take that out? >> I see a statute there. Do you think it's in the statute? Um, that's the definition of a deadly weapon or dangerous. >> I Yeah. And then Oh, excessive absenteeism 1582. Oh, okay. I see that one. Sorry. ARS15-82. >> My
072only I have no idea. I'm okay with that. Does seem counter like you never want to be at school. Fine. >> You never have to go to school again. >> Yeah. But one of the things I wonder if it has something to do with the ADM for schools like showing >> because basically we can't have kids on our like rosters that are not actually coming to school. That's why we do like the 10day drop and stuff. >> Yeah. >> I wonder if it's like >> but it doesn't say shall so it's not forcing you to do it right. Yeah. It says only if they've reached the age completed after which school attendance is not required as prescribed. So Oh. So okay. Okay. So, this doesn't even apply. Well, it only applies to very few students
073in our schools. So, they would have to be 16 and yeah, >> I think we can take it I think we should ask, but I feel like you I feel like you could definitely take it out of one and then we could see if it's even necessary for two, like if it's aligned. >> Yeah. I mean, I guess we've had that conversation before. Remember when we talked about >> student marriages? Yeah, >> I actually read that earlier and I was wonder like earlier today because um >> Mr. Cabahal and I are working on like attendance and working on our presentations and things like that um for leadership council and for the governing board. And I was like, wait, we're going to suspend her and ex excel excel expel a student that isn't showing up because
074that makes so much sense. That's really going to help our our >> I know. I know. >> I just know my I think we should ask Jay because there's like a weird thing happening at our school. We have a student who we just like can't get them to come to school, but the family will call every 10th day to excuse them and so it restarts like the clock. But I think there's something new going on too where now kids can get dropped whether it's excused or unexcused. That I think that's the only way I could think of it. Like we're saying we have to expel you because otherwise we're breaking the law in another spot. >> Yeah. >> But I have no idea. But then it says there you may a student may not be
075or a student may be excel expelled only if they've reached the age or grade. So that's the 16 or whatever. >> I'm I'm good taking it out. I'm good and 16. >> So yeah. Um I mean I don't know if we need to take it out because then it has the explanation underneath. It just feels weird. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. I guess we could ask Jay what his opinion is on how to leave it or whatever. Maybe we could just highlight it. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. There you go. Let's use tools correctly. Thank you. >> He's gonna be like, I shouldn't have missed that meeting. He's gonna have all these >> I know. All these like emails. Hello. Hello. Hello. Okay. Um All right. So, well, real talk, we have 10 minutes.
076My wondering now is do we want to just like con like let's get through and see um like are we all going to be at the next meeting and like what's the homework and stuff before we start a brand new one or do you guys have few things that you think we could get through in like the next five? This is a lot of like there's not really much we can take out. I think we just let's look at where we're at for next meeting and who's going to be attending and schedule and then we'll see where we're at time wise. >> Okay. So then >> not a lot of brain power comes out for me after 4:00. I'm a morning person. You want to chat at 6 a.m. I am your girl. But four
077or six o'clock my my brain shuts down. >> I know I got you. Um, and it's like kind of >> when you're talking like policy and like >> I know it's a very weird evening. >> Okay, so we have >> hopefully your travel plans aren't messed up. Maybe >> I don't know yet. Um, we're watching it very very closely. Um thankfully uh uh the New Orleans airport is not one that is like cancelling a lot of flights. It's Sky Harbor, >> so we might be able to get there. Getting home might be a different story. Um but I don't know as of right now. We'll know more tomorrow. We've been watching it and they'll only have it updated through the 11th. So our flight is tomorrow or is not tomorrow is Wednesday night. So they're
078updating it like hourly and so I don't know. We're going to be watching it really closely tomorrow >> like and the nice thing is that Southwest is willing to reschedu and and not be like an exorbitant amount of fees. The other piece of it is um we have a straight through flight. So that is a benefit to us. We don't it's not like we have to stop at another airport. Um, and they're more cancelling a lot of the very close um, flights like to LA, to San Francisco, to San Diego. >> Oh, yeah, that makes sense. >> Th those are the ones that are being and for some reason Chicago a lot being cancelled to Chicago, too. >> So, I don't know. We'll we'll see. Um, I am nervously anticipating. Um, so fingers crossed I
079can get out Wednesday night. I'm crossing them and my toes. >> Thank you. I'm like I haven't seen my son in over a month other than on FaceTime and I'm like I really miss my boy and I just want to give him a big hug. >> Hopefully. >> Thank you. I appreciate those well wishes. >> Um okay, we have our next one December 1st. Can everyone confirm that you'll be available still December 1st? Um, and we did list that one as virtual. And then we don't have any more after that. So, I'm wondering, um, I do have something the 15th, but if we could maybe go to the every other like this and do this December 16th. Let's see. >> I can do the 16th. >> I can also do the 16th. Um, and I
080do appreciate them virtual because it allows me to >> Yeah. >> at home. Um I I know we do have to check with James. Um but Hilda, could Jay do the 16th? >> Yes, I just checked. And then >> Okay, perfect. >> Adrien, does that work for you? >> Sounds good. >> And then we did discuss previously that if we were doing them I can't remember if we said we if we were doing them virtually or if we were doing them at the board meeting, we'd consider a 4:00 start time. As of now, I can start at 4. if you guys would prefer starting at 4:00 or if 4:30 is better just to like kind of like get yourself settled at home. >> Right now, I have nothing on my schedule for Tuesday the 16th,
081so I can do four. >> I could do four. >> I can do four. Uh I don't know if I'll be able to get home in time by then. I >> If you want to wait till 4:30 so you can go home, I don't mind. I mean, personally, like, okay, I'll just >> I I just feel bad making other people do that if I'm the only hold out. >> No, I probably would end up staying at school, too, if it starts at >> E. No, >> guys. Come on. Supposed to be convenient to us, then let's keep it at 4:30. >> I'm like, I don't want to make everyone else stay an extra half an hour later, but I was like, >> I can get out of there by 4 to get home to be
082there at 4:30. I feel like we should prioritize everywhere >> being comfortable. So 4:30 works. So um we have 4:30 virtual December 16th and then it's break. I don't think anyone's going to want to do something the first week back from break. So that leaves us. >> Can we wait till December 1st though that James is with us too? Yeah, >> we'll go ahead and schedule the 16th and then on the first schedule more in January. >> Okay, that's true. Have the sports schedule and everything for winter sports as I'm >> and then also um I know Jay, there's a lot going on Hilda. I just don't know if there's any progress on the front of getting a non-administrator andor even a parent on this committee again. >> There hasn't been and I know he
083spoke um with Jez and he said he might but he hasn't so I don't think he is. >> Okay. But I Jay said he wasn't able to attend this meeting because um something came up. But he said at the December 1st meeting he would talk to you guys. Okay. >> More about it. >> Okay. >> And he might even talk to you Katie. >> Okay. Sounds good. >> Beforehand. >> All right. All right. >> Thank you everybody. >> Oh sorry girl. We're almost done. >> No I know. >> Um okay. So we got through 5306. So really I don't think the homework you would have already done this. So as long as you guys we can go back to the um just get these ones done. I don't know if we should even just make
084a bonus just these are the new ones. Um I mean I can I I can technically find what would be next if you guys want but if >> neither of you have looked at these we might as well just wait. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So then I'm going to put it in this week's homework. All your have to would be these. Our goal is to get through all of those. Um I think yes because they're so closely aligned that you you'll see first of all staff students 5304 is like a five minute read. It's so short. And then 401 and 402 are so similar, >> but I definitely think please read them in this order. >> Okay. And I I mean it's like the other one. There was the suspension one and the expulsion. They
085were almost identical. Yeah. So I started reading the expulsion one. I was like, didn't I just read this? And I had to go back and look at the title and I was like, wait, what's the difference? And it took me a couple of minutes um to realize that they were almost at like one was suspensions and one was expulsions. So >> yeah. >> Okay. Okay. And then what we'll do is um what the meeting plan will be is just wrapping up the like procedures for suspensions and expulsions and then going through this stuff. >> Okay. >> Work for everybody? >> Any good to the order besides more members? >> Okay. Um so then can I get a motion to adjourn the meeting? >> I motion to adjourn the meeting. >> Uh can I get a
086second? >> A second. >> And then I'm in favor as well. So, let's all go enjoy our dinners. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. We'll see you guys later. >> Bye. Thanks, y'all.