August 16, 2025, Governing Board Meeting

001and it's control. I mean there's a list of of success criteria. So um what we did is we worked with our leadership team over the summer to come up with the measures and then also looked at our DNA cut scores because one of the things we learned in the cohort is it has to have at least a 6 correlation and a lot of us a lot of ours last year had like 0.5 right Tyson somewhere like that point4.5 so what that means is that there wasn't a strong relationship between what our cut score test scores were saying and what how the kids were going to score on this state assessment so I'm going to show you on here to give an example. So, if you look at the very top and you look at column

002F, this one right here, it shows you, and this is just an example, we're just showing you eighth grade math because that's one of our goals. Um, the cut scores, and we also explain this, too. So, MP is mentally proficient, partially proficient, proficient, highly proficient. Okay? And then the N is the how many about how many students are in this um sample. Okay? Um so when we look at our our cut scores from last year you can see the correlation right here is 0.5 4.5 and then at the very end the post test it's 7 and that's why we would see like however they did on the post test is usually how they did on this state assessment. So that's why the 7 we want it to be 6 or higher and the 7 was

003the one where it predicted or had a relationship between the two that were going to be it was predicting how they were going to do on the state assessment. what current teams it says current. >> These are our these are the cut scores we had this past year that we were presenting to you every time how our kids were doing. And I'm going to show you the second one in a second. But um so to give an example, if I was a student and on the first um on the assessment I scored anything below 40, do you see how it says 40 60 80? If I score below 40, I basically said I was mentally proficient. And um so that then if you get 60 that's the cut score or mainly person or partially proficient.

004If I get um if the next time they took the test when we gave you guys the dece uh the October test last year they had to get at least 60 to be proficient and then at the end of the year they had to be 80 to be proficient. So those were our cut scores last year. >> Sorry. Can you just clarify what a cut score is? So, when the students um Thank you. Please ask questions because we're trying our best to explain. So, um when the students take the assessment, they get a score or a percentage and then based on what that percentage is, it tells us if they're minimally proficient, partially proficient, proficient, or highly proficient. So, like to be proficient on the pre-EST, you have to get a score of 40 or

005higher. >> So, it's the cut off of between the >> Yes. 40 or higher. Yep. cut off between levels. Perfect. That's the way way to say it. So what we're proposing we made our intra measures is we want to have a higher um correlation and Tyson do you want to give your example of correlation here? We were trying to figure out how best way to explain it. >> So a correlating efficient is um a relationship between two two things basically and it is basically a indicator of how closely they are related. it is not a predictor or it's not a cause and effect relationship. So, um I was trying to figure out what's the best way to describe it. So, if you think about size of your foot and a shoe, okay, shoes have lots

006of different shapes, sizes, qualities. Some run long, some run short, some run wide. I have a very skinny, narrow foot and I can't fit into anything. So, I have to have one type of shoe that fits my little foot. A correlation coefficient is the relationship between the two. So if I have an 11 and a half foot and I find a shoe, these are on running shoes and that 11 and 1/2 fits my foot, I have a very high correlation. If however I go to a Nike shoe and I have a 11 and a half and I buy 11 and a half shoe and it's too long, I would have a lower correlation. Okay. So, it's how closely the two things are um related or how they're alike. So, the closer to one we get,

007the higher the correlation. We can go the other way, too. And you can go to zero to negative, which means there's no correlation. And so, what we're doing is we're trying to correlate AASA, which is a very robust assessment that students take over three days. Um for for math, there's two parts to it. Um, it's well over a hundred and something questions. There's multiple parts to it. Obviously, we're not going to put our kids through that. So, we have from our vendor uh a mimic or a not a sample, but it's a smaller version. That's 30 35 questions. We're trying to figure out what's the likelihood of a kid scoring something on one versus the likelihood of kids scoring the same on the other. So, the higher the number, the closer the closer that we

008get. You want me to explain the reason the three? I'll go. >> You're good. Okay. >> And then I'll I'll ask No, no. I'll ask you. >> Get out of the way. >> No, we're a team. We're a team. Okay. So then I after we Vanessa and I went to that cohort training. I said, Tyson, we need to have 6 or higher. How do we do that? So So you're like, I don't know. So um he went to our uh testing company, which is Renaissance, and asked them to do a study for us, for our students. So this right here in the orange is our students. Um, and so that's why it says CSDR Kraton School District analysis. And we asked them to do look at our 500 eighth graders in math um, and look

009to see what would be the closest relationship to how they're doing throughout the year. Because when they take the assessment, if I'm an eighth grader, it has all the standards I need to learn by the end of eighth grade year. So if I take it in the beginning of year, I probably don't know any of those standards. So most of our kids are going to score low and that's why it looks red all year long. Um and so this is showing uh the cut scores what how our students did um for each assessment and then how they ended up at the end kind of like the um relationship at the end. So you can see before our cut score for like uh minimally proficient was they had to get 0 to 39 would be mentally

010proficient. Now it's 0 to 19. And then to be partially proficient, it's 20 to 27. And to be um proficient is 28 to 39. And then 40 is actually highly proficient if they got a 40. 40 to 100. And that's at the very beginning of the year before they've been taught anything on the eighth grade standards. So that's where they're um those are our cut score. So they did our 500 students. So based on this for the just for the pre-est we have a 6 almost.7 correlation. Did you have a question? >> Yeah, I just wanted to to make sure I've got it clear. So what on that first line math pretest? So then those are the the cut scores based on what they would have learned or sorry I want to make sure I'm

011>> they might become late. So since they haven't learned everything, if they score that then if they score 40, even though you would think, oh 40 is low, but since it's beginning of the year and they haven't learned everything, it's actually is highly proficient. >> Yes. And so it's saying that they have some type of foundational preparedness for um eighth grade. And then go ahead J. >> I just wanted to add because this came up in our leadership council meeting last week. So, and and I am not correcting what you said, but I just want to create clarity around this because I think it's important that all of us help parents with this. If they score 42, let's say, it does not mean the child is highly proficient. It means they are on track to

012be highly proficient. They still need to grow. And so, one of the problems that we have sometimes is a kid goes home and says, "Hey, look, mom, I'm highly proficient." And mom's like, "This is amazing. My child's arrived." But if that child doesn't have any learning over the course of the year, they are not going to end the year highly proficient. >> This is where they have to be between 63 and 100 at the end of the year to be highly proficient. >> Right. >> Rather than 40. >> Exactly. But what but what the statistic is telling us is if they start the year at 42 and all other things being equal that you know as far as that they're getting what we would expect from them as far as their growth over the course

013of the year. So, it's not like they're absent 60 days that year. They're not, you know, they're not skipping all their homework, you know, um they're not in a situation where they don't have a teacher in the classroom for some reason. Assuming everything goes the way it should go over the course of the year, then that 42 tells us that they should be able to grow those additional 21 points they need to grow in order for that score to exist on that post test. which means that there is a nearly 77% likelihood that when they take the AASA test, they will score on the AASA test as highly proficient. So, I just I just and I apologize. I'm probably overexplaining. >> No, no, no. I think that's good because if they stayed at 42, if

014you look at the post test, they would be partly partially proficient. So, and and when we're looking at these cut scores, we're noticing no matter what category the students start in, they have to grow around 20 by the end of the year. 20 percentage points. Um, which is not We were We're kind of guessing like probably like four questions or something like that. They have to get right four more questions to get right to move um a level. I know. Isn't that pretty crazy? So, this is just an example of eighth grade. So, the other thing to show, so if I was a a student and I scored 19 on the pretest, like we're just we just finished taking the pretest, then I know to move a level just for the next test, I would

015have to get a 25. Do you see how the next test is 25? Um, and then you could see, but by the end of the year to stay in that section, they have to get between 34 and 47 to move that level. So, if they started out at 19, um, that student would only have to move like 15 points, right? or 16 points. They're all around 20 point move a level. Some are more, some are less depending where they start in the actual area. >> Now, are these cut scores drivers of what our interim measures will be? Okay. >> So, what we um and then the other one and we'll just tell you why we didn't pick this. So, this was done on our Kraton students, our eighth graders, and it was done for all

016of our grade levels for both reading and math. So, we have that one document you have has all the cut scores for all the grade levels. I'll go over that in a minute. Um now this is the other one where they did a study on five districts um right five districts or all the districts just five districts to come up with cut scores and you can see that one has a higher correlation but we did not go with this one because this was done in November 2024 and these are based off our May 2025 test scores um and so when they do a new study we could consider changing to those cut scores but right now we wanted to do off of our students So when we Yeah. Our kids >> I agree. >> Sorry.

017>> does it is Renaissance like doing all this with for not extra money? I guess I'm just asking. Okay, >> cool. >> Their research department. Yes. Thank you. So that that's the um rationale behind the cut scores why we are switching cut scores. And the reason why that's important is if we adopt these interim measures that we're going to go over in a little bit, it will show that we're doing better because we won't have all the kids in red all year. It'll show kids going from red to yellow. There'll be more yellow, green, and blue. And so we'll show you an example of that. And I'll have Tyson show that go do this part. You want to show the example? >> So here's um eighth grade math from uh under the old 40 60

01880. So if we look at uh last year's pretest, eighth grade kids came in second week of school, we take the pre-EST. This is 40 60 80. And you can see we call this the sea of red. So we're seeing a lot of kids that are mentally proficient because the cut scores are so high at that 40 60s passing 80 is above. And so and that was the the lower if you remember if you look at the the correlation coefficient the correlation coefficient for this is very low at 0.5. So pretty much 6 and above is a strong relationship. So that red is not giving is not a strong relationship of how they're going to be at the end of the year. >> Right? >> So when we take and apply the new set of

019cut scores, if you look at the pie chart here, we notice that now we've got a more representative indicator of where our kids are at. So no longer am I at the 78 or 79, it's dropped down to 72. I also start to see a little bit of blue. So, those are our highly proficient kids as well as some proficient, partially proficient. So, it's more representative and we have a higher correlation of how they're going to be um at the end of the year. >> Questions? >> Can I just throw two notes out there? One is there's there's two ways this benefits us. The first way that it benefits us is when we come and we do um progress monitoring reports with the board, you're going to see a more accurate reflection of of sort

020of what's predicted to be the outcome. Like Dr. Ramos uses the example of the game. It's a more accurate reflection of what the score might be at the end of the game, right? Um because if you think about it like odds in Vegas of a basketball team winning a game 0.51 it's just slightly better than a coin flip right so we're saying oh we're going to make determinations about what's happening with our students on you know pretty close to a 50/50 shot of being right which is I think why SOFG uses that 6 or above. You need something that that actually has a statistical measure that has meaning to it. But the other reason that we think this is important to us and it's the reason we're willing to take the pain of it's going

021to maybe be more difficult for families to understand and we'll need to do more communication around that is it also allows those tool sets to be more useful to us in how we adjust our practice over the course of the year. So, you know, one of the problems is if the result is is obfuscated or hidden from you, then you're really making adjustments over the course of the year kind of in the dark. And by having a more accurate correlation, it'll allow us to make more effective adjustments throughout the year, ultimately benefiting the students because it will it it will put us in a position to be able to pos more positively impact those student outcomes. I wanted to add um which is I this is what you you were saying too um superintendent man

022is that it helps us set goals with kids easier. So like if you were a student at 19 before you'd say okay I'm at to even get out of this I have to be at 40. That seems like a lot more. But if you're at 19, you really only need to jump six points by the next test, which is a lot seems much more attainable than I have to jump from 19 to 60 actually to be proficient or move the next the next test. So, it's just um also helps the kids have um what's it called for smart goals, reasonable go um attainable goals, right? Attainable goals. >> Um I'm just I just have a couple of thoughts. I guess I really love this especially when it comes to our two-way communication when we have

023to go out and talk to parents is a very good way of letting them know how to decipher that when it comes right and it also I think it's a good bright spot for parents if they're already coming in in the post test or the pre-EST at a high level that for us as a governing board member when we're out there is like what is working what did you guys do in the summer what you know there's so much two-way communication that can go there to help us communicate with their parents better what we're doing and also this just a thought is I think it's great that we're doing this because when we were doing our community feedback one of the things that we were hearing a lot is that you guys are not being

024rigorous enough you know we want high expectation for our students so now that we're moving our cut scores even higher I think it brings that in and it will clarify with teachers too I believe in classrooms to see which kids are at that a little bit better so they can also maneuver their, you know, materials or their curriculum to better meet the needs of the students if they need a little bit more support or those ones that already have the high, you know, efficiency. How do we keep them on track versus them being lost in the system? Because sometimes that happens, too. So, I I love all those this those are just some of the wonderings and thoughts I had. >> The other one I want to do is correct myself because before I kept

025saying predicting, it's not predicting, it's the likelihood, >> right? the likelihood or the relationship. So just saying when we're looking at the correlation, it's the likelihood that they will score this on the state assessment. Um and then I wanted to bring your attention >> projecting either then. >> Would you think projecting is the same as predicting then? >> Like if I use that word, I shouldn't use that word. >> No. >> Okay. >> Just the likelihood. It's like this is the most likely that you'll be in this category or in this score. This score. So, >> so correlation efficiency, we're comparing two things that are different. So, even though our benchmarks and AASA are still measuring academic standards, they're really very different because our benchmarks we have they're still aligned to the same blueprint from

026the Department of Education, but we don't have the same robustness because on ASA there's three to four to five questions per standard, which is why the kids take a couple days and large blocks of time. under our under what we do for DNA through Renaissance, we have basically one question per standard. So they're they're they're close but they're not the same which is why we it's why it's a likelihood of because you say predict project or predict that's it's almost like a cause and effect relationship like oh if this happens this will happen. So like a cause and effect would be you know if we use the basketball measure if we practice every day and we watch our game film then our halftime score is going to be better right one something happens to cause

027something else to happen. This is not that because they're not related. Even though we think they are, they're really not. Two different vendors, two different tests, two different questions, different cut scores, different waitings of the questions. So, they're not really the the same, but they're not the same. If that makes sense. >> And I just want to bring your we just printed the math because we're talking about math today um with our progress monitoring reports. But you can see here we have all the grades. Let me put and on the very far column to the right the correlation you can see that all of them there are pretty high either 6.78 and these are um you can see just to bring your to understand it so on the very left it says math pre math

028IBM1 the first the pre-estes we just did in August IBM 1 is in October or late September actually right before fall break IBM 2 is um right before the winter break and then the post is after the state assessment. And so these are the cut scores for all the grades um and all the proficiency levels. I'm going to give you a minute to read it in case you have any questions or or um want us to explain something one of the columns. So, I'll give you a minute to look at that document. Yes, she did. Notice >> I'm sorry. >> Say that. I'm sorry. >> Kindergarten. >> Oh. Um, no. They're they're on they're on Fastbridge, right? >> For kindergarten. They're on FastBridge. Oh, okay. >> We we do have a kinder we do have

029a a kinder assessment. Um but it's um it's a we don't have a kinder mimic, so we can't align it to the state test. Grade one is about as low as we go. We do have a comprehensive, but it's much more robust. Um and kinder's it's it's read to the kids, but really fast, a universal screener, gives us a lot more tools because it's more skill-based. So that's really what helps us drive where kinders are at with letter names, letter sounds, high frequency words, um basic math facts, identif identifying numbers, patterns, those kinds of things. So we do have one, but it's really not appropriate for kinders. Maybe in maybe in May we can have them take something like that. Um but we can't do a correlation coefficient because it's not aligned to the the

030state standards. >> And and there is you'll notice there's no correlation coefficient for first or second grade. And that's because those students don't take it the AASA test. So there's no way to correlate it because you'd have to have both data sets in order to create a correlation. >> Okay, that was going to be I I think that's probably related to my question, which is why the uh cut scores are so much higher for first and second graders or like they're they progressively are higher and then get lower as the grades go up. >> Yeah. So, one thing you will notice on our on our previous model, you had to get uh 40 percentage points or 40% correct to be partially proficient. If you notice, now our test cut scores are actually going down, >>

031not up. So, you don't have to get 40. Now, for your for a third grader on the pretest, you would get 27. So, there So, the reason this is important is that when we bring progress monitoring to the board, you're probably going to notice a difference. So on the little the the line graphs that show, you know, mentally proficient, partially proficient, those kinds of things, you're probably going to see a difference because our cut scores are going to be lower. So it may look like we have more kids moving out when actually it's just a more accurate representation of where our kids are really at because we've reormed our cut scores to where they really where they should be in alignment with how they're how we the likelihood of performing on the state assessment. If

032that makes sense. and and and um I know Mr. Myers is on um a committee for the state board of education like where they help with figuring out you know measures for things. So I I think one of the reasons you see that difference is and correct me if I'm wrong there are cut scores for the actual AASA test too that they use to determine what label they're going to provide a child with and so those cut scores at those other grade levels are lower. So that's that's that's why the mimic correlation is also a lower score. So it's not like, you know, the mimic's just so super hard for eighth grade that the score is lower. It's because the mimic is theoretically mimicking the actual AASA test and the cut scores on the AASA

033test for that grade level or lower. And I just want to make sure that all of us as board members understand that because as stuff cuts out to community, we never want the misconception of, oh, you're lowering standards or you're doing this or you're doing that, you're changing your curriculum, so you're a benchmarking or your progress marking looks better. So this is the time to ask questions and really get into what a cut score is so we can announce or you know go out and explain it in the correct manner. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm I want to say I'm feeling a little bit lost. Um, but so let me just maybe ask a couple. Oh jeez, it is a hello. Hello. Oh, maybe I just need to project into the mic. Okay, sorry. Um, just

034feeling maybe a little bit lost, but also just going to throw out some questions. So when you know, for instance, I'm looking at the math post test 8th grade above 62% is highly proficient. So, you know, when coming like as a parent and my own experience seeing like, well, isn't 62% like a C? Um, you know, just relating it to how I've known scoring and grading. Is this saying that they got 62% of the questions right then then that makes them that relates to highly proficient? >> Yes. So, the way that um so within our Renaissance family of products, these are percent corrects. So, it's a percentage. So if a kid if it's 10 questions and the kid gets two right, it's 20% correct. AASA use what's called scale scores. And scale scores are are

035because it's a a much larger assessment, they use scale scores because there's different weightings of different questions. There's parts and different kinds of things. And those scale scores when ASA came out several years ago and we're actually getting ready, the department's getting ready to go out with an RFP for a new state assessment in school year 27. So we're now going through that process. We actually, the department brought in teachers. So teachers actually set the cut scores for AASA. We also set the cut scores for AELA. Um I was on the committee that did that for fifth grade a couple years ago. Um so if you're out in the community and 67% that's a C >> or a D. When I was in school, you know, when I was in school, I was, you know,

036I was grounded for a month if I brought that score down. Well, it's different now because this is what because we looked at the rigor of the test. um especially in the upper grades in six, seven, and eight. In math especially, it's a hard test. I mean, it is we it is hard. We've given it to adults and you know because on the committees we actually go through and take the test. I mean they you go I I'm on third grade language arts. We go yeah I taught third grade so that's why I do that. But they give it to us and we take it and when the committees come and it's a group of oh hundreds and hundreds of teachers that they actually set the scale scores which is identifies this is what teachers

037think in the state of Arizona is >> minally proficient partially proficient and then when you get to proficient and above that's passing. So when you stop passing is proficient and highly proficient. And so what what this does is we're trying to align what the Department of Education and the teachers in the in the field say to what our our our mimics or our DNA tests. So it just more accurately aligned which is why we may see a greater change. So if you remember that pie chart how we had more less reds and more yellows and more greens. It's just a more accurate representation. We're not lowering our standards. We're not we're not saying that our this is a lower expectation in Kraton schools. What we're saying is we're more accurately representing how our kids are

038doing aligned to the state assessment in which teachers in the state determined student proficiency and accuracy and those kinds of things. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> Does that does that help when you talk to the talk to the community >> for me? Um and then going over to moving over to correlation. So can maybe just explain a little bit how so is that in when it says correlation does because these are are these are the like assessment not assessment that's not um >> is this in correlation to the actual like a AASA the the state test so that this figure represents what they're getting on our little benchmarks. >> Yeah it's the likelihood of them and if you notice it starts relatively low. So if you look at our pre-est, it starts in the

0397s. So if you're looking kind of at the the the pre-EST as you kind of go to uh IBM, which stands for interim benchmark one and then two in post, you know, the see the numbers get higher. It goes from point sixes and point sevens up to point8s. That's because we're getting closer and closer and we're having more and more instruction and more and more data. So we're able to more tightly align the likelihood of the students performing on the state assessment. So when we get to point8s and above that is a very high a very high correlation. >> Okay. >> Which is why when we came in May and which is maybe in some of the discrepancies where it's like we're not on track, we're not on track, we're not on track and all

040a sudden whoa wait hey we're on track. That's because in May we have we've under 40 60 80 it's a very it's a higher correlation which closely line to what we were thinking they were getting but because of benchmark 2 benchmark one and the pre-EST having a very low correlation which is why it was perceived that we were off track when actually we were on track but our cut scores were not aligned properly. So we're hoping for as we come to the board this school year we're bringing much more accurate information that's aligned. It may look a little different and we may have more kids in different buckets, but it's going to be more accurately aligned to how we think they're going to perform on the state assessment. >> Okay. And the these correlation numbers

041are based on or these predictions because this is showing 25 26 DNA, right? Or >> yes. So what so what this what the study did was take um through last year. So we have data for all of um 24 25. So pre-est, interim one, interim two, and then we have our state results. So we get that all to Dr. Forester who's in Gainesville, Florida, and I worked with her, and which is why we now have So these cut scores, even though they're 26, it's based on 25 scores, which is the most recent scores that we have available to us. >> They're not predictions. So I just want to make sure we're clarifying real quick. So these these numbers so for example if you look at math pregrade 1 the red column minimally proficient it's saying

042that this is now in the next school year 2025 2026 if I'm a first grader and I take our like testing our benchmark testing um at the beginning for the math pre-EST which I don't know if they've already done that but if I'm a first grader and I scored below 30% I'm going to be minimally proficient. So, it's not really a prediction, but it's just telling you where I'm going to fall depending on what my score is this school year for our new cut scores, >> right? Yeah. I was my question was in relation to the the the gray column, the correlation, like what what that is, what that number is telling us. >> Yeah. So, >> so, >> um, >> oh, I don't know. Gosh, now you're gonna actually make my brain work even

043more. Um >> here somebody else's brain is >> I I'm trying to remember the correlation coefficient thing now. >> Uh the likelihood. Sorry. So that's where we get to the thing that's not a prediction but a likelihood, right? And so the likelihood that that somebody's going to be that there's that they're going to wait that they're going to land in each one of these buckets or >> sol whatever assessment I Gotcha. >> I'm proficient on the post assessment. According to the DNA benchmark assessment, when I take the state assessment, AASA, um there's a likelihood that I'll probably be proficient. >> And so we're talking, but it's a likelihood. >> So we're talking about anybody in the green or blue column. >> Yes. Anyone in the green column >> or the blue column >> or any

044column. Yes. any way. >> Okay. Can I give an analogy real quick? >> Yes. Go ahead. >> So, and and someone's going to have to correct me if this analogy is wrong. Oh, go ahead. >> Pause though. I don't understand how somebody who's scoring below 17% as a third grader is going to have the same correlation coefficient to be proficient at the end as somebody who is proficient already. Can you explain that to me if that's what you're just saying right now? It said it doesn't matter what column you're in. >> No, it does. What? What? Yeah. I was like, uh, >> like if I am a minimally proficient, if I score minimally proficient on the post test, then I'm probably going to score minimally proficient. >> Gotcha. Sorry. >> Whatever college you're in, that's

045what it's going to be. >> Thank you. Okay. I heard you would be proficient and I was likelihood that you'll be that on the statement. >> The correlation is the same for all of the columns, but it's to that column. So, so the best analogy I can think of is a coin flip. So cuz because if you think about it, the the correlation coefficient for a coin flip is 0.5. It's 50%. Right? Which means that there half of the time it's going to come up heads and half of the time it's going to come up tails. Doesn't mean that's going to happen. I shouldn't say it means that because this is literally just a correlation. It should come up half of the time heads, half of the time tails. If I flip that coin four

046times, I'm not necessarily going to get two heads results and two tails results. I might get three heads results and one tails result. If the if the pool of data is large enough, because it's a statistical correlation, it should land right around that 0.5. But when you're talking about 10 kids in Mrs. Jones class. Um, you know, even if it's a 60% correlation, it doesn't mean that six of those kids are going to end up a certain way. Um, and so that's why it's not predictive because if it was predictive, then we'd say, "Oh, they took this pretest. There was a there's a 6 correlation. We know which columns these kids are, so six out of these 10 kids are going to stay in the columns that they're currently in." And that's not what it's

047telling us. What it's telling us is that you know the the there is a likelihood that this is where these kids are going to end up and that likelihood is also based on that moment in time which means that's all things being equal. So if we put interventions additional interventions in place we put extra um measures to help the student be successful it it can change that result. And I think that's important to know too because this isn't um like your fate is to be minimally proficient. It's a data point that we're looking at saying all things being equal, the likelihood is this is how these kids will pan out. Now that we know this, what can we do to change this outcome? Is that am I did I completely bother? >> It may help

048to do an activity. Um because this is how I've processed it with my kids. So goal one is reducing eighth grade Millie per, right? So trying to get >> I got this one at the same time. I'm kind of I'm kind of like, >> yeah, >> I've got a teacher voice. I don't need the mic. So, >> but you have to be on the >> Oh, they don't want to hear me. >> Um, so eighth grade math mentally proficient. Our goal is to move the kids out, right? We want to get we want to get better. Okay. So, if I have 19% Okay, percent correct. All right. So, and I'm talking to a kid and say, okay, let's talk about what you need to do throughout the school year. Okay. So with your tablemates or

049with your friends around you, what would you recommend that this kid needs to have to get out of mentally proficient? What would be the percent correct he would need to jump by the end of the school year to get us out of mentally proficient, which is our goal? And I'll give you a couple minutes to work with your tablemates and we can come around and help. And your best friend is going to be this little fella right here. >> And are we just getting him out or are we getting him? No, we're No, the goal is to get him out of me proficient. So, we're going go we want to get him to >> So, I always had a kid like this in my class. >> Kid in class that like doesn't >> Well, so

050now I have to think on my feet and give you a different one. Okay. So, actually, so >> it does say by post. It does say by post. Oh, >> President Korea, would you explain to the class how you came up >> with this is one of the things we strategize on is having kids visualize their thinking. What how did you come up with that number? >> Yes. So, if we're looking at the math pre section and we're looking at grade eight, it says in order for them the the lowest that they or the most that they can get is 20% and and that's minimally proficient. If they have 19% right now, this student would have to go to 21% in order to be departially proficient. >> But we're saying the post test, so they

051need to be at least 30. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at pre >> Well, it says Oh, okay. Sorry. >> Assessment, but to do the post would be >> 34. >> 33%. >> Well, yeah, it goes from 33 33, which is weird, but yeah. 34 >> below 33. Yeah. >> Yes. And this is why I believe the cut scores work because then internally within the classrooms then teacher have a better way of what pivots they'll have to make from this pre to the post in order to get them that big percentage jump. And I think that also helps with students when we're going around. I know that some of the schools they take a non autonomy of their own data and when we have parent teacher conferences the teach the kids are telling

052us where they're at and what they're doing. And I think this is where the magic happens because this is going to be putting the autonomy not back on the students, the teachers, but also the guardian of the students because this is the information that gets told to us. So that's Go ahead. >> This is a little in the weeds, but um you mentioned that on the interimm assessments the questions are like one question per uh I don't know standard or whatever. Okay. But then on the AASA, you're talking like several questions per standard. And that, you know, the difference between some of these cut scores is only just a couple questions. What what if any data do we know about like people's or have we looked into I guess what it I'll just tell you

053what it made me think about when I put me back to when I was younger and I didn't have any accommodations or anything but I did I do have ADHD and so like when I'm taking a math test specifically I'll get very frustrated or upset or anxious and I'll just go very fast or especially if I do okay on one and then I'm get stuck on the next one then I'm just going to get real frustrated and either want to move on or stop or just go to the next thing and be worried about the time. So, knowing that how many more questions are on the on like the AA essay, you know, I could feel real good about myself and have a lot of efficacy because I've been doing so well because they're only

054asking one question per standard on our interim assessment, but when I get to the end of the year, I could freak out on the test because there's so many questions for everything. So, how do we prepare kids for that? >> What is this? Me, too. >> Uh, yes, that's a that's a great question. Um, so beginning in probably January and February, we have many more robust tools in our in our DS DNA assessment suite, we have comprehensives which are much more robust. So we start administering it to the in a practice environment with the kids. So we have the teachers start to create testing environments. We start kind of covering our walls a little bit. We start talking about where you're sitting. We start talking about okay, we, you know, we can do it in

055bits and pieces depending on the teachers. Um but we do have much more comprehensive assessments to get the kids ready for >> okay >> the the the larger state assessments but to bring back to where we were. So under our old model so the last year's model the 40 60 80. So in order for that kid to make that jump remember we had to go from minally proficient to partially proficient he would get to 60. >> Yeah. It's crazy. >> So this is why when we would when we would say we're not on track we're not on track. We're not on track. Oh congratulations. And now in May, we're on track. And now school year's over and we're, you know, celebrating where we could have been kind of celebrating all along or at least being

056on track. >> Gotcha. >> So this more accurately aligns even though the scores lower, but it's more an act, it's more accurately aligned to where the kids proficient or proficiency levels on the state assessment, the likelihood of them performing where they need to be. And the only thing I can think of literally is this is going to be the magic that's going to probably help us pivot our students even more because it's a more actual depiction of where they're at versus waiting until the end and be like, "Oh my god, they were on track all the time." So we could have changed it and maybe moved them to the next level out of whether it's minimal proficient wherever. So I love this. Thank you. That's all I have to say. >> Also allow us to

057adjust any inputs we need. >> Yeah. >> Sooner rather than later. So, as we start seeing, so kids just finished their benchmarks yesterday. Um, so we're going to start looking at where they're at, where where we need to be, how they're aligned to the the new interim measures. So, this allow us to adjust sooner rather than later. I I think it's it something that may be helpful. Like I know one of the things that came up was the concern around like well why do we look at 62% and say that's really good that's highly proficient when it's been beaten into our brains that that's like a C or a D right and the reason is um those that sort of notion of these are C's or D's are based on a bell curve which is

058completely artificial. It's really not an accurate measure of whether someone's being successful or not. What what it is is it's a way to dump individuals into different buckets. You're try it's you're trying to sort people and you've basically created a system where you have to sort twothirds of the people into a failed category, right? But twothirds of our students are not failures. Like that's so it's it's really it's an inaccurate way to measure where someone's at. If you compare it to say sports and you look at baseball as an example, so a kid who gets 50% consistently on their exams, we look at them like, oh wow, you're not doing very well. But if you bat 500 in the major leagues, you're like a rock star, right? So it's it's it's one of the things

059that's problematic about things like testing and grades and all of that is some of the statistical mechanisms that are used in it actually date back to the 1800s. And there's like a whole history of using them to keep certain groups of individuals sort of in a particular bucket. And so, um, what we're really doing with this statistical data is we're trying to make a determination about what are the needs of the individual child, how do we help support them to be as successful as possible um when they when they're taking their assessment at the end of the year. that assessment is still not a perfect measure of the child's knowledge for all the reasons Miss Gibson Mlan listed. Um my own child has you know was never amazing at taking tests but you know set

060him down with a blue book and he can show you he knows a lot more than the teacher knows you know on a lot of subjects. So >> Mr. Jones did you have any questions or wonderings at all? Just wanted to give you some time. >> Oh thank you. uh the so if we look at say grade five the math IBM2 just because it one that one stands out because usually it's like 25 to 30% for minimally proficient although that goes up with the uh the post the math post test but like when when I see that drop right there that's because we've looked that's just I'm trying to figure out that I have this under or I'm understanding it that uh that's they looked at that data from last year and that was the

061percentage uh that created that correlation like it wasn't that somebody said well this is the cut score but that it was more that the data determined the cut score. >> Yeah. So these um so if you look up here the what we're recommending in the orange is our kids. So what this is looking at is our grade five kids last year that are sixth graders. So compared to how their performance was on AASA with our kids that is where that cut score the new recommend cut scores come from. So the kids performed lower compared to the other grade levels. If you see that that drop at 19. >> Yes. >> That's because we're looking at our kids and that's where we ended. So likely what we'll do is at the end of this next upcoming

062year, we'll get a hold of our friends at Renaissance and say, "Hey, can you do this again for us?" >> And then we will reorm our cut scores for 26 27. So we're always going to have the most accurate data on the on on previous year's kits. >> And that's because LA when we first did this, we were kind of shooting in the dark >> with the cut scores. I >> I wouldn't say we're shooting in the dark. We were following one of the standard models that is used. And so and and um >> but we kept saying we don't know how DNA is going to like match up with the ASA results. >> Well, we we did we had a we had a we had the correlation for how it would match up. Um

063but what we didn't have is we didn't have specific to our students. So what we have now is specific to our students. The the 40 60 80 has two challenges in it from my perspective and and Mr. Myers will have to correct me if I'm wrong. One is it is a cleaner, simpler way to look at the data for every child, every grade level in every teacher's classroom. You're using 40 6080. Very simple, easy to remember, easy to keep track of. The other problem is the 4060 80 wasn't limited to specifically Kraton's students when we used data last year. And I might be wrong about that particular point. >> Yes. said no we went um we asked Renaissance we wanted something to start 468 and we had two years of it is something that is

064easier for teachers >> right easier to understand for kids and you know because with with this now this becomes actually very very complex because if I'm a third grade teacher I now have to look because my cut scores are changing every test I take so I got to look at the pre-EST and then okay now we take the first interim benchmark which is in six weeks now I've got a different set of cut scores. Then I take the post test at Christmas time. We got a different set of cut scores. So, but if I'm talking with kids, it's more about numbers. Yeah. >> Than about colors. >> And so 40 60 80 was okay, you got to get to 40 whether you're a kindergartener, a fourth grader, an eighth grader, whatever. So it was easier

065for for staff and for kids to understand, but it wasn't giving us the accurate so we need early in the school year. >> It wasn't until Yeah. It wasn't until the post test that our correlation coefficient was high enough to meet the SOFG standards, which is 6 and above. >> I feel like my next question is what we're doing here today, but I think that's probably what we're doing here today. But how um we practically take these and as coaches or teachers use the this as some sort of tool like what are we doing with this to then even tweak things even finer than we were before? They're they're using it to set goals with the students and the teachers. So the kids can look at and say, "Hey, I'm right here. So this is

066the number I need to get to by the end of the year." And they're going to be graphing and monitoring their own progress um for after each benchmark. >> So the the teacher has a test talk with them. And to answer your previous question, in addition to what Tyson said, we also um this summer when Marie's here too, she probably talk about it better than me, but we created the common formative assessments. And so we chose um essential standards. So, we only chose a few standards to focus on. And so, the kids will be taking that um assessment over and over to make sure they get those standards down because what was happening in the past, if they take it one time in, let's say, September, when they go take the test in April, they

067don't remember that standard. It wasn't in their long-term memory. So, we're going to keep testing the standards over and over throughout the year. So, when they get to the test and they say, "Okay, you know these five standards." So, there's going to be 15 questions on these five standards. So, you're going to look for look for those when you're going through and you don't get you don't understand this one, but there's going to be ones that you understand they're going to be coming up. So, just more about the talking with the kids besides the practicing and then and them also knowing which standards they know. >> Yeah. And and all of our kids can see all of their test data um in the platform. They can see the percent they got correct. They can see

068every question. They can see where they got it right, where they got it wrong. So even with this even with this pre-EST, we can go in and have test talk with kids and start talking about well look at this and this is where you answered and this was the correct answer and oh well this asked for three and you asked you answered one. Well is that a test issue or is that a kid not understanding what's the expectation? So so testing is very helpful and so we purposely set that up so that they can see all their answers and everything throughout the school year. >> Okay. I think if there was any more questions on the cut scores, we were going to show you the new intra measures. We going on to that next. Okay.

069Any other questions first? No, I just really appreciate this portion because the fact that us as governing board members are understanding what cut scores are is so important to the work that we do when we're going into progress monitoring and asking our strategic questions and really understanding how the information is being presented to us and why. So, I appreciate all the hard work on this and even the new pivots of actually just focusing on curtain. I this is all beautiful magic. So thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. So our first goal is a percent of eighth grade students who score minimally proficient on the state assessment decrease from 73% to 48%. Our goal for that for this year is if you look at the first annual target is to be 64%. Um, and so that's

070what we're trying to monitor throughout the year if we're going to be be able to the likelihood that we're going to get 64% with all of our students. So the first intra measure we want to monitor with you throughout the year is the DNA assessment that we just talked about. And so we want to monitor our sixth grade students who scored minimally proficient on the DNA math post test. And these are the students that are going to be eighth graders in 2028. um that they'll decrease from 65% on the fifth grade DNA math test to 58% on the sixth grade. >> I think I think I noticed that one was might was missing in there. >> Yeah, I don't have that. I only have guardrails. >> Yeah, it's I think the sheet didn't print double.

071Sorry, >> I think it was supposed to be double-sided one >> you can pass it. Okay, I'll look I'll put it up in the It's in the agenda, right? >> It should be in the agenda. Yep. [Music] >> So, which one? Could we take a quick like five minute recesses and have these printed out because I also need to go to the bathroom while we get goal one and goal two printed out. They didn't get printed out and I I don't think they're on the agenda either. I don't see them. Yeah, three and four were printed but I didn't see one and two. >> Yeah, but this this is only >> Yeah, only goal three. >> Okay, we're going to take a quick um 10-minute recess. We will be back at what time is it?

072>> 10:22. Thank you. Yeah, teachers. Right. If we can start coming back to our seats and if anybody wants to join over here in the tables too, you're able to as well. Come get cozy. These are very spacious tables. >> Yeah, there is a delay. >> Ta and them can come too because >> Tristan Okay. Do do you guys have goal one in front of you? >> See, >> thank you for being patient with that. >> Okay. So, this is the only goal that we want to decrease. All the other ones we want to increase. So, we want to decrease our millly proficient. And so to go back to um the original goal is we want to do uh the percent of eighth grade students who scored minimally proficient on the state math assessment will

073decrease from 73% to 48. And our annual target for this year is to decrease to 64%. So that's what we're trying to monitor all year long to see if we're getting we're going to make that 64% for our students. And so the first um assessment we're going to be monitoring four times per year this year is the sixth grade um who scored mainly proficient on the DNA post test will decrease from 65 on their fifth grade test to 58 on the sixth grade DNA math post test. We're looking at the cohort of students from their fifth grade post test to their sixth grade post test and we want that to go to 58%. Does anyone have a question on that first one for the sixth grade DNA or do you want me to go through

074all of them and then ask questions? >> I think I'm going one by one would be best. >> Okay. >> So the first one is sixth grade. These are the one students are going to be eighth graders in 2028. We're looking at their DNA assessment which is the assessment we were just talking about for the cut scores. And we want 58% of our students minimally proficient. And we think because our actual goal is 64% that if we met 58 would we would it's more likely we would meet the on the state assessment 64%. Any questions on the first interim measure? They're aligned to the cut scores. Yeah, the new cut scores. are not aligned to last year's >> except for the overall goal remains the same. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Are you ready for

075the next one? >> Sorry, just to clarify, did we change the annual target to go with the cut scores or no? that also running the same. Okay. >> The annual target stays the same what we originally voted you voted on for in the beginning. We keep the same annual target. The only thing that's changed is the percentages and our intram measure because we changed the we have it matching the current cut scores. >> Yeah. And then just a reflection that I have for myself. So because at at some point you know we are going to be held and when we're going to our two-way communication. So the annual target for 2025 um because we have the older reports show 77% in August of 24 to 71%. This annual target is a little bit higher than

076last year's. We're going 79% 2% lower which means worse right? Or no worse. This is the one we want to get lower. So >> we're decreasing. >> So we're going to Okay, got it. So basically the way I explain it to our teachers, it's kind of like if you have debt on a credit card, you want that to get less. You don't want that to get higher. You want it to continue to pay that down. So you want minimally proficient. We want less of our kids minimally proficient. >> Yeah. But in 20 in 20 25 we had 77% and we jumped up to 79 this percent. >> Did worse. Yes. >> Okay. So, I just want to make sure that we're cognizant of that and when we're explaining to our parents out there why we're

077regressing basically 2% that we we're able to present it in a articulative way of not that we're making our standards lower or higher but this is more aligned with our cut scores. >> No, no, no. So, in this one, what we're doing is we're being transparent that we failed last year. >> Yes. So we the goal was to get to that other number, but we didn't achieve that. So we ended up at 79%. So the the change can't be from the lower number because we didn't achieve that lower number. So it's a measure from one point in time to the next point in time. So this accurately reflects where we ended last year. >> Okay? >> And but what we didn't move is the target. So the the hard part for us as a team

078and the hard part for our teachers is we now like we didn't make it a lesser goal. We this is significantly harder. So one of the things we could have done was come to the board and say man we we didn't get there last year and so we need you to like we're not going to go to 64%. Like give us 68%. But the problem is we only have so many years until we get to that 5-year period. There's three years remaining. So if we don't maintain that target, then we're going to be way behind. Like we start to make it difficult to impossible for us to achieve the goal unless we maintain that target for this year. >> I understand your question. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Great question. >> Yes,

079[Laughter] >> we over. >> Yes. All right. So, I'm gonna skip 1.2 2 for a second and go to 1.3 because it's the same it's the same thing except for we're looking at eighth grade students. So if I look at uh intram measure 1.3 the percentage of eighth grade students who score minimally proficient on the DNA math post test will decrease from 71%. So, our eighth graders currently right now scored 71% of them were minimally proficient on the seventh grade post test. And we're going to look at how they score this year in May on the post test and we want that to go from 71 to 61%. And the 61, if we get this, if we're monitoring this throughout the year, if we get this, we looks like we would meet our annual target

080of 64. So, these are both DNA assessments right here. Does anyone have a question on 1.1 or 1.3? Sixth graders and eighth graders DNA assessment. Um, one of the things that we we learned with our um success criteria for intram measures, we need to have at least three. Um, and I always give this example and it's probably a bad example, but it's the one that I makes it clear. I think is like for instance, say you have a goal of getting healthy and you want to lose 10 pounds. But in order to monitor that over the months, you need to have more than one measure. So you probably measure your weight on the scale, you probably measure your nutrition, what you're eating every day, you probably measure if you're working out. So those are three

081measures. Now those three measures are helping you um determine how well you're doing to reach that goal. But the one that's really was would it be likelihood I guess is the one with the scale, right? That's has the actual number that you're losing that or not. But the other ones are helping you or your triangulating the data to see how you're doing on that goal. So that's why we want to make sure we have three. Um so we have those two DNA, but the other measure that's going to help us as we're going through the year is our FastBridge data. And the FastBridge measures the students skills. So, it's not measuring the standards, it's measuring their skills. And Re's here to help if she knows more about FastBridge than me. But this uh percent of

082sixth grade students who score high risk on the FastBridge math a math will decrease from 50% in May of 2025 to 40% in May of 2026. And we're looking at our sixth graders because they're the ones that are going to be eighth graders in 2028. And we're looking at their math skills on the FastBridge test. Yes. >> So on this one in particular because I noticed on like interim 1.1 they're comparing um sixth graders to you know who were fifth graders the year before to their their fifth grade score. And this one 1.2 is is it sixth grade scores from the year prior? >> Yes. We're looking at just sixth graders. So not the cohort. >> That's not the cohort. Yeah. Okay. That's a really good question. >> It is. >> Yes. >> So, we

083we >> I don't you may have already addressed this. There is an extra measure on our sheets because it's the >> Oh, it's old version. >> Yeah. So, the three that are up there, we we had feedback from Dr. Ramos that we had shared with the board that we should only have three. So, one of these was eliminated and it just wasn't corrected on the file. >> so 1.4ish forest is gone, but everything else is exactly the same. Correct. >> Yes. >> I just wanted to point that out. >> Thank you. Because I was like, yeah. >> Okay. >> We're only we're supposed to have three to to present. >> Can you just really fast explain like the DNA math test with the FastBridge math test? >> So, the DNA measures the state standards. Okay.

084>> And the FastBridge measures math skills. And I don't know if Maria you want to add to that anything about the FastBridge. >> Sure. FastBridge is an adaptive screening tool that gives us information on a variety of math skills and it adjusts as students take it. So it can be anywhere from counting and cardality and place value for our younger students up through ratios and proportions and algebraic concepts for our older students. As students answer the questions, it gets easier or harder to pinpoint exactly where their skills are and what their next level of learning will be. And then it puts them on a path, a learning path. So, it's a tool that it connects to one of our adaptive platforms where it will automatically place them on a path so that they can get

085um games, practice, tutorials on whatever skill they need to work on next so that they can start to fill in those gaps. So, our thought was if they are filling in those gaps, then they'll be getting closer to grade level, which will be moving them out of minimal proficiency. That was a good question, too, just the difference between those two assessments, what they're measuring. So, these three in measures are what we're proposing to help us monitor if we're going to meet our annual target of 64%. Do you have any other questions? >> We spent a lot of time on cut scores. So these like make more it's easier to understand these because we were explaining how uh the cut scores. You guys ready to go to goal two? >> Yes. >> Okay. So goal two.

086This one we want to increase. This is the all the other goals are increasing. That was the first one was the only one that was decreasing. So we want uh the percent of our eighth grade black students who score proficient on the state assessment to increase from zero to 28%. From zero of 2023 to 28 by August 2028. So we want more of our students to be proficient on the state assessment. So our annual target this year is 13%. Um, so we started at zero. This past year we got 6% and now we're want to move to 13%. So this is one of the goals that we did meet last year. So I'm going to go to the first um 2.1 in measure. Now, this one, it says, "A percentage of sixth through 8th grade

087black students who scored proficient on the DNA math post tests will increase from 8% May 2025 to 16% of May 2026. We have sixth through 8th grade students because we have a lower incount or low number of black students. So we need we um and also we are monitoring our 6th through 8th grade instruction uh for our junior high students but it's 6th through 8th grade because we have fewer students in each grade level that are that um are in this area. Are you ready for the next one? Mhm. Okay. I'm not going to skip it this time. This time it's fast bridge and it's the same group. We're going to look at sixth to eighth grade black students who score low risk on fastbridge math. That means they're basically another low risk for them

088like obviously means similar to proficient on fastbridge a math will increase from 12% of them at low risk to 22% low risk. And then the very last one is we're looking at just our eighth grade black students. So this could help us monitor because that's what we're going to be presenting for our annual target is just eighth grade black students. So we have just eighth grade black students who score proficient on the DNA math post assessment will increase from 8% in May 2025 to 17% by May 2026 on the DNA math assessment. Is there a reason why our interim goal is higher than the annual target? >> So yeah, we've been putting it higher just to make so we as we're monitoring because we know that whatever they score on the what they actually been

089scoring on the DNA, they actually score higher on the state assessment, but we're just trying to have something to monitor that's close to the state assessment. >> Okay. Um, and you can see just from to go back to our our prediction like last year on the DNA they scored 8% and we actually got 6% on the state assessment. >> If we set them the same and we hit it, we'd think we were going to succeed, but we'd fail. So that's it's higher because the correlation requires a higher score in order to predict that. >> Okay? And and so when you think about FastBridge, so FastBridge has four risk levels. So it's just just like DNA except it's just a risk level based upon >> yeah it's based on national rank. So what we're what we

090want to do is we've got low risk which would be equivalent to like a highly proficient then there's or there's actually college pathway low and high. So we're trying to get those low kids. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So it's just a different way of thinking about it. And since Fastbridge is more skill-based, it's something that we can work on now because right now if we look at if we look at DNA, you know, most of our kids, we haven't taught them anything, but we have a good handling on skills. So a kid needs work with fluency or adding or subtracting. Those are things that we can tackle now. So hopefully we can impact that in December when I take the next round of screeners. >> That makes sense. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you, Tyson.

091You can see how my hearing comes in effect how I misunderstood. So thank you. Um, okay. So, any questions on goal two in measures? [Music] I don't believe so. Okay, let's go to goal three. We have TA here to help answer if we have any questions. Okay. Um, so this one is the percent of our emerging multilingual students who increase one or more levels on the Azella will increase from 25% in August 2023 to 40% by August 2025. Um, and so when we look at our annual target, last year we got um 35% and our goal is 34%. Now I know this is confusing, right? We are not um changing our annual target. So it's still 34% but our students have already jumped levels. So it is going to still be challenging to keep uh

092going at this rate of our students jumping levels. So they they're going to continue to jump levels but um we've already had 35% of them jump levels. So the annual target hasn't changed. This is the one that we set two years ago or whenever we set the annual targets. It's the same annual target, but we just got above the actual target this year. Do you want to say anything about that, Jay? >> Yeah, I I wanted to add and I learned this from Dr. Ramos. Um the other thing is our cohorts are changing over time as well. So, um you you're dealing to some degree with different groups of students. So, this is not a specific grade level. it's broader, but the eighth graders are out of the system and the and the third graders

093that will be measured this year will be new into the system. So, you're not always measuring apples to apples. And so that's why it's important to maintain the existing trajectory rather than adjusting the percentage because we may be giving ourselves like a false sense of, you know, where we're at on our pathway to be able to hit our um 5-year goal, which is that 40%. >> And the other thing to consider too is that once kids reach proficiency, they're no longer an EL student. I mean, we still monitor and track them, but if a kid goes from intermediate to proficient, then they're good. Congratulations. Great. You're no longer an EL student. You still have needs. We monitored them for two years after that, but they wouldn't be calculated. They wouldn't be counted as EL kids

094anymore because remember this is measuring how kids go from, you know, pre-emergent to basic, basic to intermediate, then intermediate to proficient. Once they get to proficient, they're out of the system. >> And once they're out, there's no way that they can come back out in come back in like regress. It just stays and out and we continue working >> unless there's a parent request to to enter back in. But once they're out, we still monitor them >> and they become part of our regular lab. Okay. >> Okay. So, our first interim measure is the percentage of emerging multilingual students in grades 3 through 8th grade will increase one or more levels on the DNA English language arts pre-EST to the post test will increase from 12% in May 2025 to 25%. This is the DNA

095assessment that measures standards, but we did see that's why it's a lot lower. It's 25%. We did see over time that they were that our um emerging multilingual were doing better on the DNA assessment. They weren't becoming proficient, but it was a good measure to monitor how they were doing um in their language acquisition, but it was just showing that they were improving on that, just not at the same rate as they did on Azilla. And then also um we are looking at a mimic assessment that we have to pilot this year. So we can't use that data, but we're piloting this year. Um and that could be a potential one for next year. But I know that when we had discussions um last year in our progress monitoring, we talked about a mimic and

096so this year we're piloting that mimic. >> Any other questions on >> I apologize. that mimic is something that's criten specific and created or is the mimic something that exists part of fastbridge or some other vendor that we have. >> Um so I work very closely with our friends at Renaissance and uh as part of the collaborative we're a member of ASAC. Uh ASAC is the Arizona assessment collaborative. It's a group of 25 districts. Um we have specifically asked Renaissance to build us a mimic. We asked them a couple years ago. So they built us one. Um what our our task is 11 districts are participating in it. Um we're actually going to be administering to all of our EL kids this fall. Um just to collect the data. Um it's a language assessment. DNA

097is a standards assessment. So it's a different it's designed to measure language levels. And once we collect the data um Dr. Forester who's the psychometrician for Renaissance who we work with closely she's going to take Kraton's data I I think Isaac's participating um Mesa Cartwright all these districts and she will actually set a set of cut scores for us so that now we can apply cut scores and language levels to the assessment that we can use next year >> okay >> so it's important that we actually give it to our kids doesn't mean we're not doing anything with the data except right >> giving it to the kids there's no scores there's no a kid's not going to say oh I'm emergent nope they won't even see a We're just going to give it to

098them just for the purpose of establishing a baseline data for next year. >> And is this an added-on test of things that we already have or is this in lie of something else? >> This will be an add-on and we're going to do it out of cycle. So working with hey, we'll probably give it to the kids in Octoberish. So we're not just bombarding kids with >> Okay. Thank you. >> And then the next two are fastbridge. So the percentage of first through third grade emerging multilingual students who score on the 50th percentile on the fast bridge 50th percentile means that they're uh low risk oral reading fluency will increase from 6% in May of 2025 to 14% and that's oral reading fluency has to do with like speaking um and so that's we pick

099that part of the assessment and then the other part of so that's just first through third grade students so I'll stop What >> that we're using first? I don't understand. >> Would you mind explaining to the board 50%? >> Sure. I'll try it. Then you'll fill in. All right. Okay. So, and >> Okay. So, all of the research in reading fluency and what it takes for students to be able to perform at grade level says that students need to be reading fluently at the 50th percentile in order to be able to perform at grade level with English language arts standards. And when we look therefore in Kraton, our goal is that all of our students perform at the 50th percentile on these screener assessments. And one thing that uh FastBridge does is all of the

100so with all the psychometrics and all of the people that look at cut scores in relationship to how students perform at grade level, they actually have low the low risk designation is at the 40th percentile cut. And that means that students are at low risk for pro for being where they need to be at the end of the year. And in Kraton, we've determined that that we we need it to be a little bit higher because we need our students to not just be low risk at being where they need to be at the end of the year. We need them to be at the 50th percentile in order to make those intense gains that we need in our standardsbased assessments. >> And stay there for the the next interim measure. And thank you for

101that explanation because part of us adopting this interim measures is that it is pushing the system to work a little bit harder than what it's been doing and challenging the system and this sense sounds like it's challenging Kraton. And I I appreciate that. So thank you. >> And and can I just connect this back to last year real quick? So um if if you if you think about it, one of the things and it's really not specific to this goal. It's really more specific to goal four, but one of the things that we found we we weren't getting accurate reflections of was where our students were in relation to oral reading fluency. So, it really pertains more to goal four, but it's I think it's good that the team's recommending that it exists here as

102well because it it is a critical component of, you know, literacy that is in order to be able to do the other things. it's sort of a building block to get there >> and oral reading fluency was a new part of AASA for third grade last year. So having this measure will um allow us to spend more focus on teaching kids or fluency is just kids reading. So it's not comprehending, it's just can the kids decode text and read fluently. So this measure will help us actually monitor that throughout the year. So kids are better prepared, all third graders, not just multilingual, but all kids are better prepared to tackle ORF. um in the in the spring. >> Yeah, and I was going to bring that up. I was glad to see oral um fluency

103in it because last year that's why we had that big dip, I think, in our ELA students, not necessarily these ones, but the other one because we were like, oh, oral fluency got added on and we kind of didn't know. So, I'm glad that we're focusing on this too to see if there's going to be um a change for when we start monitoring it this year. >> Yeah, absolutely. And thank you. I also wanted to add I also wanted to add um that we are looking at first through third grade and one of the things that that caused us to need to do in the fall this year was actually give the oral reading fluency screener to our first graders. So, in our previous set of first grade screening tools, there there was and there

104still is a oral uh sentence reading fluency assessment in the fall. And then in the winter and spring, first graders were screened on oral reading fluency. And what that meant is that we didn't have an oral reading fluency comparison in first grade from the fall to the spring. And we really felt strongly that because first grade is that year where you are really learning to read, uh we needed to be able to compare fall to spring in first grade along with that cohort of second through third grade students. So, just so you know, this interim measure did also require one additional screener for all of our first graders in the fall, which is a one minute screener, >> which I think is amazing though because we should not be waiting until the spring to see

105what's working and what's not working for our students. So, that even in itself is already telling me that the system is going to do something completely different from last year to get that outcome. So, thank you for explaining that. And I think when the board's talking with the public, one of the questions we've had come up in the two-way communication is, well, what about all the kids you're picking? I know this is an this is an all Aella kids goal. We have another one that's all the kids goal. But sometimes the questions about, you know, like you've got these targets that are specific grade levels and but part of the reason for that is um we're trying to find those measures that are going to help us not only predict for the current year, but

106we're trying to predict for the end point in 2028. So, if you think about those first graders that that um you just heard we're doing this additional screening with, those are our 2028 third graders. And so, it's really important that we're capturing that now and we're helping create that movement in first grade. And so as we talk to the public, we're not just focusing on the end goal. We're focusing on the end goal as a way to ensure that we're improving our systems and our methodologies so that way all students are improving and all student outcomes improve. >> And then the the final interim measure for multilingual students is for grades four through eight. So, so we're looking at the fourth through 8th grade students who score low risk on fastbridge auto reading will increase

107from 21% to 27%. And I was going to have Sarah Beth explain what is auto reading measure that's aligned to multilingual learners. Yes, I'm pulling it up very quickly to make sure that I get all of the information accurately. One second. >> We had in our notes. >> Yeah. So while Sarah's looking it up the probably a question to say well these are all great how are we monitoring all this stuff. So one of the inputs we have that the board has allowed us to use is edger climber. So we are going to be entering our first full year with educ climber this year and every one of these inter measures um are available to to leaders to teachers to administrators to whoever um both in visual form um and down to the kid bykid

108level. So educ does allow us to visualize these all the time in real time. So as soon as a kid takes a test, the very next day it's going to populate an edge clamor and we'll be able to monitor, create graphs, charts on all those things. So that's one of our inputs. >> Excellent. Thank you so much. And so talking about the auto reading, so in first through third grade, we're monitoring fluencies, that oral reading fluency, which is critical for reading on grade level and comprehending on grade level. Then when we move into fourth through 8th grade, we're actually looking at all of the skills of reading, not just oral reading fluency. And so, um, the auto reading is a very similar, it's like the ELA version of what Marie was explaining for math. It

109is an adaptive screener that has multiple skills on it. So in fourth grade it tests or screens for skills in encoding which would be that how to read a word word identification and vocabulary. And then in fifth through 8th grade it adds um synonyms and morphology which is around uh vocabulary and those longer words uh with or multi-elabic words that have um different like patterns that they follow. And so the reason that we chose this in addition to the fact that um we're not doing the fluency screening in the upper grades is that we really want to be able to capture how our upper grade students are doing on all of the things that are necessary for them to be able to do in order to perform at grade level. So it becomes much more

110complex in the upper grades. And in this particular one, we did select low risk, which would be that 40th percentile cut because this is something that if they are low risk here, that will translate to being able to perform at grade level. And it's in a little bit different way than what we talked about for the oral reading fluency because it is more it's skill-based. Sorry. Apologies if if you said it and I missed it on this one. Interim measure 3.3. Is there a like is that in May or is there a a date associated with that? >> Oh, you're right. >> We should have that on there. So, it's um increased from 21% um to 27%. So, that was last year's May to this year's May. So, we need to add that in there.

111>> Yes. Thank you for noticing that. The other thing I wanted to do was make a connection between what Tyson was talking about with the use of edge climber. And in order to really develop this interim measure, we were able to look at the correlation between how students perform on these screener assessments and how that relates to benchmark performance and aello performance. And when we were looking at all of the different types of screeners, especially in fourth through 8ighth grade, A reading is another um screener that we do, there was a tighter correlation between the auto reading screener scores and uh performance on Azela. >> And I was going to say, Miss Marquez, that was a good question because that's part of the success criteria when you write in measures is you have to put

112from what date to what date. So, I don't know why it wasn't on there, but thanks for catching catching that. Um, any other questions on the on the intra measures for multilingual? Yes. I guess my question is with the oral reading fluency like normally when they give the aella like that's where they get pulled, right? To to do like the speaking. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> So, how is this being tested like on these? Are they are okay? So like they're one-on-one with who? Like who is administering these tests? >> Uh so uh ORF is administered one-on-one. Uh it could be a variety of folks. It could be the reading interventionists on some of our campuses. It could be the classroom teacher, but it is administered one-on-one. Uh just like Aella is administered one-on-one.

113It could be Azela could be done in small group. The only difference is Azela is done on the computer with a headset and a mic, right? and and those kinds of things versus uh or fluency is one-on-one with kids reading a passage and the the tester or the teacher scoring it in the computer. >> Okay. So, that was just my concern is because um as a teacher myself having to test kids, I'm just wondering how long um it's taking to do this because I know that that takes away from the actual like time that teachers have with their students. So, um, that was just like something >> most of our schools, at least at least the fall what we're doing right now, our reading interventionists are pulling the students out so there's no loss of

114instructional time. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other questions on goal three? >> Yes. >> Sorry. Um, I'm I was just curious this little kind of chart on the side. target grades for intram measures and it says grades three to five and I know some of these are three to eight four to eight is that boy you're we're just finding all sorts of wonderful things that were didn't catch on this go around um so those interim measures last year the interim measures were on targets grades three through five um I just updated it because we're actually looking at a bigger sample this year we're actually looking at kids in grades one through eight and then as we go through we'll update the you know 27 28 depending upon what the intermissions are. So

115it's it's the target it's the target grade levels that we're looking at >> the >> yeah the the the inter the target grade levels. So last year we looked at just third through fifth graders. This year we're expanding that to look at all grades or first through eighth grade. >> Any other questions? >> Okay, we're going to go to goal four. Goal four is similar to this one. Um I mean not to the goal, but I'm talking about the interim measures. So the percent of third grade students who score proficient on the state assessment will increase from 18% to 41% which we know 41% is around the state average. And so, um, the percent, our our annual target is a percentage of third grade students who scored proficient on the state assessment in English language

116arts will increase from 13% in August of 2025 to 31% to by August 2026. This is what Mr. Man talked about earlier. This is one of the goals we did not meet. And so, I think our original we were supposed to meet around 22% but we only got 13. So, we have much farther to go this year from 13 to 31 and we do have some inputs in place that will help address that. Um, you can see Tay is here because she's taking over language acquisition and Sarah Beth is doing literacy um this upcoming year. So, we separated those two areas. Um, so the first measure is we're looking at our third graders who scored proficient on the DNA English language arts post test will increase from 19% in May of 2025 to 31% in

117May of 2026. Um, and these are not the same cohort because our our um we're looking at just third grade third grade from third grade. >> I'm sorry. Oh yeah, the second grade didn't take benchmarks. So we put 31 to 31 and we have it matching exactly. So because we have a lot to we have a lot of work, a lot to go for this one. And then the next two are the fast bridge again in the same um areas or very simp. percentage of first through third grade students who score at the 50th percentile on fastbridge oral reading fluency will increase from 17% in May 2025 to 25% by May of 2026. Last time we were looking at first through third that were only multilingual learners. This is first through third all students the

118same um interim measure fast bridge oral reading fluency. And then the last one, the percentage of students who score at the 50th percentile on the FastBridge Early Reading Composite will increase from 19% on kindergarten early readings reading composite in May of 2025 to 25% on the first grade Early Reading Composite in May of 2026. Um, this is looking at our first graders because they're going to be our 2028 students for third for this third grade goal. And so we're looking at how they scored in kindergarten at the end of the year to first grade at the end of the year. This right here should say score instead of Does anyone have questions about these inter measures? >> Any questions, wonderings, thoughts on these because this is also an actionable item. Correct, Miss Quadis? >> It

119will be Tuesday. >> Oh, okay. And Tuesday. So, this will be an actionable item on Tuesday that we're going to be accepting our intram. So, even before we go, if you guys don't have any specific questions now, it would be good to get them out of the way today just so we can roll through them and give a little bit of explanation on Tuesday and get ready to work to approve them. I Yeah, go ahead, Miss Ayes. >> So, just to clarify, these are the things we're going to be sharing with our parents, correct? >> Yeah. Um, this is the stuff that we will be talking about in the two-way communication so they know what to expect in the school year. And it's also good for us to know because I'm pretty sure we're going

120to have I I would like for us in our two-way communication to also let them know what how we ended in the fourth quarter in May and why these adjustments are happening and explain to our community moving forward what they will expect. >> Okay. So, um I I think my wondering and my thoughts um are thinking about how we're going to explain this to parents in a way that they um can understand it because we've had hours to do this. >> Um >> and I since I'm in education like I feel like I have a grasp of this and because of our study session, but I'm really I'm really wondering how we can do this in the most efficient way. So, I really think like as a board we we need to think about how

121we are going to present this um to our community um because this is confusing. Um oops, I muted myself. Yes. Um I do understand that and that's why I think we're we're going to have two-way communication study sessions so we can start talking about those things too. But I do believe probably another follow-up session before we breach out and start going into our own respective two-way communications will be um important to do so we feel confident enough to go and speak this information out to our community. I was just going to say I think that um before we even on the two-way communication dig into any of the numbers, I think we need to make a visual and um really explain what the different assessments are >> and maybe make it like a you know

122like the the AASA at the top and kind of how these fit into that. >> I think once we get people to understand what what the different assessments are then we can jump into the numbers. >> Yeah. And as soon as we move into that topic, we can go over some of those conversations and what it would look like for us to be able to explain it a little bit better. And if we need visuals or whatever, that's a good time that we can let everybody know so we can support each other in that work. >> Yeah, we definitely can make some visuals. I see Marie writing down notes over there, too. She's really good at that. >> Yeah, she's really good. If you remember last year's study session, she Yeah, she helped me. Okay.

123Um, so these are the interim measures we're going to bring on Tuesday to vote on. We just want opportunity to explain it. Our thinking why they're why they're different than last year. I mean, a lot of them are similar, but they're why the numbers are different. So, if we don't have any questions about this, we were going to go over the guardrails in measures. Do you are you are we ready for that? >> Yes, please. I think it's Okay, so the guardrail the first one is the superintendent will not uh not neglect student social emotional health, wellness and development. And we have three like last year we had two but part of the success criteria is you have to have three and so we have three this year. Um the second 1.2 2 and 1.3

124are the same as last year except for we changed the percentages. Um the first one is different. So I'm going to go over the first one, 1.1. I know this is important to all of us. The percentage of average daily attendance for the Craton School District will increase from 79% in May of 2025 to 82% in May of 2026. So that will be the our goal is to improve daily attendance. We'll still be monitoring chronic absenteeism, but those usually are specific students that might have certain um where we want to look at all students how to improve attendance. Then the other two are um uh interim measure 1.2 two, the percentage of students in grades 6 through 8 who respond favorably to indicators of self-management on the Panorama survey will increase from 52% May of

1252025 to 58% May of 2026. Um, and then the percentage of students in third through fifth grade who respond favorably to indicators of self-management on the Panorama survey will increase from 64% to 68%. If you remember last year when we presented the Panorama survey, we had low participation rate because it requires um parent permission and our schools worked really hard to get parent permission for these um surveys, but it still was low participation rate. So, we are looking at switching to Sabers, but we don't have baseline data for sabers. So, we're going to be doing sabers, which is from Edgic Climber or Renaissance. So, it's already in the FastBridge, like when they take FastBridge, it's already in the computer system. And that one doesn't require permission because it doesn't ask any questions that fall under

126the criteria of needing permission. And so, we're going to switch to that in the future so that we can have more represent of all of our students. But we're going to continue this year with Panorama still trying to get parent permission. It's just last year was it was difficult to get the a high participation rate. >> Yeah. If I could add on to that, the other reason it's important that we do panorama for one more year is that if we want to have longitudinal data that we can look at over time, we need a year where we've given both measures in the same year. So, this will give us the ability when we do our pilot year with sabers to be able to baseline it. Um, it'll allow us to also correlate sabers and panorama

127to be able to then continue to look over a longer longitudinal time period and determine whether there's been improvement over that longer range of time. >> So, similar to the uh the mimic like we have to have baseline well that's a pilot but this is kind of like we're doing a baseline for the sabers assessment. Will there be a way >> will there be a way to track um these intra measures to our student conduct policies or student conduct behavior reports that we get? >> I want to make sure I understand. Say it again. >> So um these intra measures are is there a way with Educ Climber to tie it into the student conduct reports that we get? I'm just trying to see I'm trying to correlate for me the social emotional learning of

128students is if they're obviously feeling safe or they're feeling good in an environment then in return that should be dropping down our student conduct issues that we have at our schools or referrals. So, I'm just trying to outside of the box think if we're really gonna have intra measures that are indicators of that to me if kids are feeling good and happy then that should automatically in my at least for what's true to me translate into decreased behavior issues. So, is there a way that we're working on that to make sure that this is predictive of that social emotional learning of the students? I don't know if that makes sense. >> I think I understand. So, uh, and the truthful answer is I don't know. >> Okay. >> Um, I believe so. So, Sabers will

129give kids, uh, risk levels just like because it's a it's a it's a social emotional behavior screener. That's the Sabers stands for social s, which is social academic emotional behavior risk screener. So, it assesses all those. It'll give kids a risk level. We then can uh because Educ all of our incidences that go into synergy, suspensions, those kinds of things. Um, we'll then be able to look at how many. So, probably on a I could probably look at like, so if a kid's high risk on sabers, we could look at the incidences. So, does he have more incidences or if a kid is low risk, they would have low low incidences, right? >> So, I'd have to dig into that to figure out, but we do have the data available to us now with Sabers.

130>> Okay. And Oh, yeah. Go ahead, Mr. Man. >> I I I also want to caution us that like you'll notice we didn't use reduced suspensions as a measure, right? Um and the reason I want to cautious caution us about that is that one of the things um that I have seen happen in other places is if we set an interim so keep in mind superintendent being held to and the rest of staff is being held to these interim measures as a measure of our um performance. So there are ways you can reduce student suspensions that aren't necessarily a reflection. And so so we what we don't want to do is we don't want to change behavior in such a way that it is just causing the result we're looking for. We want to change

131behavior in such a way that it is having a positive impact on the students. So, um, if we're doing things like, especially once we get to Sabers, which we think will be even more correlated, what we want to do is see that the students are actually feeling more comfortable and that's resulting in better behaviors, rather than potentially creating a situation where at a school site people go, "Oh, well, we're better if we have, you know, let's say the the accusation that's come up in the past, even though I don't believe it to be accurate, is if we're looking at out of school suspensions, well, we won't out of school suspend the kids." now will in school suspend them and then we artificially create a number and I'm not claiming that we would game the system

132but the problem is sometimes when you put those criteria in people's heads it shifts their lens and then unintentionally you end up with those types of changes and we want the changes to be to our actions and how our actions and our and our um tool sets are positively impacting outcomes for kids. I hope that wasn't too confusing. I know I kind of rambled there a little bit. >> No, that made sense. And then the last question that I have is ruler. How is that in being implemented or is that something similar to the savers? Because I know that ruler was supposed to be a self-management. We spend quite a pretty penny on it and I still haven't heard on how that's going to be implemented and that has to do with this I would

133say social emotional realm. >> We have a Dr. Bergus in that position now and so she's taking a team for training. Um you guys had voted on it recently so that they can come back and work with our principles to implement it. So this year is going to be a year of learning understanding ruler and then making a plan to implement it next year but everyone has to learn it first this year. So the team of student support coaches are learning it and Dr. Burrus is learning it. >> Okay. >> So so just in complete transparency. So when when we when we originally brought it to the board, one of the things that we tried to create clarity on as we learned best practice is to spend the first year working with the adults and

134then introduce it to the students. We have we have done a little bit of work with our kids congress and uh but we but broadly with the students. Um the intention was that last year would have been the adult year and this would have been the student year. we are a full year behind um in part due to losing the person who was spearheading that effort last year. Um and so um now that we not only have a person spearheading it, one of the other changes that we made in this last year is that that person is also the person that's working with that specific coaching team. So once that training occurs, we actually have a better infrastructure for implementation than we originally had. We had one person with it as an additional task added

135onto their job. Now we have a person that it's one of their primary tasks and they have a team of people to be in the schools with the teachers helping them to learn this. So it is our belief that shift that we've made structurally will accelerate the roll out but we will always be one year behind because we just >> lost a year and and I I can't make excuses for it. it. That's just what it is. That's just the reality of where we're at. So, >> okay. Awesome. Thank you for that clarity. >> Any other questions on guardrail one? >> Okay. Guard rail two. The superintendent will not cause or allow conditions, practices, or procedures that are inequitable or insufficient for students. Um, and so I'm going to talk about intram measure 2.1. So

136Justin was at the keynote. I know some a lot of you have met Mr. Campbell and he part of his um organization they work with schools. So they have a a preassessment for cultural responsive and also just kind of what you were talking about um President Kio like the foundational like what of in the classroom of expectations and what should be classroom management. And so what his team does is they work with the principal, the leadership team and the teachers and do training on cultural responsiveness and then also help them make uh work to make sure they have the tier one established for behavior at the school. So we were piloting it at one school this year um and then based on that assessment determine if we're going to replicate that at other schools next

137year. So we wanted to have interim measure to um for this one school if they improve on that pre to post assessment. And the reason why it's in draft form is because he is creating the um the assessment to specifically align for us for Kraton because he has one that's general that he uses with all districts but he's working on it and then he's working with Dr. Bergus and then once we have that survey and also after they take the survey we will put what percentage to what percentage for um that measure. So that's from um Urban Connection is working with one of our schools. >> Miss Marquez, has that school already been selected? Yeah. Yes. >> Are we can we know? >> Yeah, I can say. Does it matter? >> Okay. We're we're going

138to work with Gateway. >> Gateway. Okay. >> I approve. [Laughter] >> Um there was no motion. Yes, just kidding. Order. >> And then um the next interim measure is the percentage of current, this is also a new one. The percentage of current ETH grade students identified with the individualized education plan who participate in their annual IEP meeting during the 2024 2025 school year will increase from 19% to 60% in May of 2026. So, our um our eighth grade students that have an IEP that it's part of the it should be required that they should be at their IEP meeting because they're supposed to advocate for themselves of what they need in high school. And obviously, one of our goals is prepare our kids for high school. And so, this interim measure is to increase their

139participation. And currently, we are identifying um what does that mean by participation? Like not just sitting in the meeting, but how are they advocating for themselves of what they need in high school? And so that's our third intro measure to make sure that they are advocating for themselves to be prepared for high school for what they need. Um and then the third one is the percentage we're going to our learning walk tool. Um, we obviously this is about inequity and so we want to make sure all of our kids have engaging lessons and so we put the percentage of observed lessons that reflect a score of three or higher on the learning walk of engagement and rigor will increase from 27% in March of 2025 to 37% in March of 2026. We notice on our

140learning walk tool that over time they increase 10% and so since the two years that we've been doing the learning walks. So we put another goal to increase 10% for engagement and rigor and those are our three for um guardrail 2. Um the only thought that I have is that I really appreciate intram 2.2 just because all of this work is also about empowering our students and giving them the autonomy to speak for themselves and where they need. So I love that we're going to increase or try to work on that. 19% is not enough for like that's just not that's that's crazy and I'm also happy that you guys came up with that. So I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And on that same measure 2.2, who like who is the person

141like determining whether that student um is participating? Is it because I know I've been in IEPs with my kids and so I know it's like the couple teachers and then the >> Well, Graduate Kaiser is working with her team. So, whoever's representing the the district in there to monitor um they're going to create like a a success criteria rubric to how to um determine if the students participating in their IEP. >> Okay. And will there be like for instance maybe at the first meeting kind of a explanation to the student like on how how they can advocate for themselves or how Okay. >> Yes. That's good. Those are good questions. Yes. >> Anything else on guardrail 2? But just I have uh the on that same interm you had mentioned and I Nicole just kind

142of went over this but it's not it's kind of vague right now as to what determines participation. >> Yes. Um Gretchen Kaiser and her team are creating like a success criteria or rubric to determine that. So they don't have it yet but they're working on that before um we start having the meetings. So, have we is this adopted or >> you guys are going to vote on it on Tuesday? Tuesday. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Guard rail three. The superintendent will not allow the district to operate without a system to recruit and retain strong teachers for empowering staff through culturally relevant and differentiated professional development. Oh, we need to fix that top part. I think a lot of people have been um right here it has development twice for some reason. >> Okay. [Laughter] >>

143Okay. >> Development of development >> 3.1 um is the percentage of continuing teachers three to five years who report positive job satisfaction in their stay interviews in one of the following areas. school climate, leadership support or engagement in job duties will increase from 54% of February 2025 to 64% in February 2026. So all of our leaders conduct stay interviews and so they pick um I don't know the exact criteria because uh Dr. Lauren has this criteria for it but and the process but they interview um employees and ask them questions in these different areas and get their feedback and then he always reports that to uh meet and confer and he also reports it to the board the stay interviews and so we were going to use that to improve um the responses in these

144areas on the stay interviews. >> So I have a quick question. For some reason, intrame measure 3.1 and 3.3 kind of seem the same to me. I know that there's an actual tool for one, but it's basically school climate on the 3 to 5 years of experience of teachers. The one thing that I see is that it's only a 3% change. A lot of our things have been 5% or more. That's only a 3% increase for 3.3. But also, is there a way that because in intram measure 3.1 you're already including in their school climate and it seems to me redundant for a whole other intra measure 3.3 that's specific only to school climate. So that to me seems like it's redundant s it says continue teachers 3 to five and teachers with 3 to

1455 years of experience. I'm talking about 3.1 and 3.3. >> I thought you were doing 3.2. >> No, 3.1 and 3.3 the seem very similar to me and it seems like an excessive surveys. >> Yes. And it says in one of the following areas school climate leadership support or engagement job duties will increase. That's the full sentence. 3.3 also says percentage of teachers with 3.5 years of experience who report positive responses and indicators of school climate that's the same it lives within 3.12 so I guess my question is >> I just um that that the years definitely could change I mean I see what you're saying the um the percentage here this is like a um a interview with the teacher and has interview yes >> and this one is through panorama so it's probably

146me measuring it in a different way or different question, but it's not a problem to change. I was just asking like I just want a response off of why it's specific. >> Yeah, they're just measuring different things. >> Well, and they're they're they're measuring in different ways. Yeah. >> So, I if I understand correctly, and Dr. Lauren could probably speak more articulately to this, what we're trying to do is we're also trying to correlate our measures. So, we want to make sure that not only are we seeing that shift in 3.1 where school climate is one component of it, but that we're also seeing that same compon because school climate is an extreme like if you think back to um former state superintendent Kathy Hoffman's um teacher survey that she did, school climate is a

147high efficacy indicator of teacher job satisfaction. And so one of the things that we want to make sure is that um for particularly for that single measure that we're actually looking at it through two different lenses to ensure that we're not getting sort of a false indicator from measure 3.1. So in measure 3.1, it is potentially possible because of the way that grouping is that school climate could be being misrepresented because leadership support and engagement in job duties is so high. And so we're pulling that one specific very important measure out and measuring it with a different tool to ensure that it is actually uh moving forward. But also, you could you could um on your stay interview indicate something other than school climate. That's not the reason you're staying, but you could also say

148that there's a positive response to school climate, but it not be the reason for you on your stay interview. Yeah. >> Well, the other thing I was going to add is that the the stay interviews, I think they only choose a handful of teachers, like five teachers or someone staff members to um interview. And then this one is like all teachers from 3 to 5 years. And so I don't even know how many teachers will end up being in here depending on who they choose. >> It will be a sample set. So it'll it'll be a it'll be a significantly smaller subset of three to five year teachers than the panorama measurement. >> How are how are those teachers chosen? I guess I didn't know how small that group was for number one. >> Yeah,

149I mean it does vary by site. So the so it's an it's a stay surveys are an interesting or stay interviews are an interesting tool set because it's what you're looking at is your your best teachers on your campus. And so what you're doing is you're you're checking in with your people that are highly effective that are staying with you to see why do they stay with you. So what what are the reasons that those individuals are staying with you? And it's a highly effective tool to ensure that you're getting an accurate reflection on the things that are successful on the campus because if you're just drawing a random pool of teachers, you might get feedback from teachers who aren't your high-f flyers that are things that are false indicators of whether you're able to

150retain your best and brightest. Have we um I I I know I know we've gone through this and we've determined what the measures are, but I guess in those conversations, was there any discussion about collecting data? And I know you mentioned sometimes it'll be distorted for people who aren't highf flyers, right? But have we discussed what that data would look like for people who are highly effective or just effective and are leaving? So that that the the for those individuals the way that we're it's actually one of the reasons why we have measure 3.3 because that encompasses everybody. One's a sample set of a specific group of teachers and the other one's an aggregate set of all teachers in addition to that. So keep in mind what we're trying to do is we're trying to

151get measures that are giving us an indication of whether we're moving in the right direction or not. It's not the only systems and tool sets we have for solving problems within the organization. So beyond that, we do exit surveys. And so like when we're finding out reasons that somebody might be leaving, typically that's captured through that exit survey process. The other place that it's sometimes captured is before people exit. We also have improved our methodologies behind our um staff concern process and that would be another place where those the types of things that cause people to leave the district are being addressed because if they bring it forward as a staff concern then we want to address it before the people leave rather than as they're leaving. But the exit survey would be the tool

152set that we're using for that. So, but it's very difficult to get a statistical a statistically valid measure on an exit survey to say we've improved conditions at the district because the the one thing you know about the people filling out the exit survey is they're leaving. So, you're you're going to you're going to basically get rather than getting a correlated result, you're going to get a predetermined result, right? So what we really want to do, I mean ultimately the goal is with those exit surveys, you want to reduce the number of them, right? You're trying you're trying to increase retention of staff >> and I have the pan actually pulled up. So some of the questions for pan are more holistic. So it's like on you on most days, how enthusiastic are students about

153being at school? Uh to what extent are staff trusted at work in the way that they think is best? So, it's much more holistic and a a staff member may be more apt to respond on a survey than in person. >> Okay, that makes sense. And thank you, Mr. Man, for making the distinction of a stay interview is basically pull to specific versus all. Maybe that's a good clarifying thing that either we can announce or maybe put it in even in within the guardrail that it's going to be a pulled. I don't know what that looks like, but so there's a little bit more of of a clarity. But now that you said that, that makes sense. >> Yeah. >> And um I know in our la the last board report for July, there were

154some a stay interview report and um uh like a chart list of the the results from that. And it looks like it's showing 35 um total employees with 3 to 5 years experience that responded. Looks like it was 35 for I'm guessing this was a last year time frame or no 25 26 it says. So um that seems like a obviously more than five. >> It has to be. >> Oh okay. >> Yeah 2425. Yeah. unless of they did it at the big I don't know when he >> we're living in the future >> just the dates >> but yeah some good info in that >> awesome thank you for that miss Marquez >> thank you and then our last one well this one the the 3.2 2 and 3.3 are the same as last

155year. And so >> want to go to guard rule four. The superintendent shall not allow adult convenience or preference to take priority over the academic progress of students. We really key on the academic process. So we have all three of our learning walk um as our interim measures. And so all of them are a score of a three or greater. So the first one is um looking at our learning target. So last year in March we got to 45% almost half of our teachers were at a three and our goal is 10% more. So 55% by March of 2026. >> That's huge. >> Yes. And then the percent of observed lessons that reflect a score of three or greater on the learning work for success criteria which I think success criteria is so important. I

156use it for everything. It >> um >> to increase from 36% to 46%. Um so trying to get closer to 50% of our teachers. um using success criteria at a level three. And then the last one is we want every student to be it kind of goes along with what you asked about ruler in a well-managed classroom. So for classroom management a three or higher 48% to 58%. Um and this one obviously is higher already starting higher. So getting it higher where more classes are at a three or higher. Um so those are our three interim measures for guard rule four. Do we have any questions on those? I have a quick question. >> Yeah, Miss Aris, go ahead. >> Um, and this might have been asked, I might have asked this before and it

157might have been answered, but um, are these planned walks? Like, do the teachers know that you're coming? Do the sites know you're coming? Are you just >> That's a good question. Yeah. So, last year they knew exactly what day um, and time we were coming around time. This year, we told they could just tell them what week we're coming just it just kind of lowers the anxiety of the teach. We want to be get a snapshot, but we're trying to work towards like them not knowing at all when we're coming. But right now, they know we come every quarter and they know what week we're coming. >> And I hope the principles are going out and talking to their staff that this is shouldn't be a nerve-wracking place. This shouldn't be a place of like,

158oh my god, I need to be on my best behavior. It's like no, we need to see what's or they need to see what's going on live in order for them to be able to make solidified decisions on interims and what needs to be changed to be pivoting. So I always always say this and I will always say this is not a good thing. This is not a bad thing. This is figuring out where our gaps have been for years and making sure that we're moving the scale al together so we can see the progress in our outcomes. But thank you for sharing that and I do not want teachers doing that and that has to do with culture. So I'm hoping that all the principles are at the schools are having these conversations with

159their staff on whether they're coming or not. Don't be anxious if things are not occurring the way they need to. That's the perfect time so we can pivot. And it is what it is. >> You're right. We do need to change that culture because I mean I know like it spreads like wildfire fire on our campuses when when you know somebody from district comes like it you know everybody's calling each other. So, um I I feel like that does need to be something because I think it's a valuable tool >> going on in the classroom um without knowing. Um I understand the anxiety because of course I've had people in my room before too, but um I do agree with you. I think it's more important that we're getting the the correct data rather than

160and we don't get names, right? >> No. >> We don't get names principal knows names. >> No. Yeah. and and and so that's just something that I think for um maybe you know people that are listening um the staff to know that we just want to know if um you know the tools that that they're they're being given is sufficient for them to be effective teachers in the classroom. >> Yeah. >> And all the data has helped us with our inputs like what our teachers need um by doing those learning walks like oh and then also working with their leadership team and having those discussions and learning from each other. So, it's all been very helpful with inputs with professional development and coaching. Um, but yes, we definitely want to change that culture where people

161are I'm excited. I want someone to come serve me so I can get some feedback or what types of help do I need to be better >> and I I I'm going to I mean this is kind of raw and live so I don't mind being an idiot as you've all over the years. So, but but I'm going to make a supposition because I I was able to join one of the first learning actually was the first learning walk we did this year, right? So, I was at um Kennedy School for our first learning walk. It this is day four of school. And so my experience there, I know the team's actually done one or two more since then that I I was unfortunately unable to join them for, but my experience at least at

162that school and and I'm hoping that it's the same experience people have had elsewhere was that going into those classrooms on that day, the level of comfort that both the teachers and the students had with the observers being in their room felt different than when we went into classrooms last year. it felt like there was like a higher comfort level, you know, with having us present in the room. And I think part of that is us being very intentional about how the feedback is provided. So, I know one of the things that we do is, you know, they have things called glows and grows. You know, you leave these little notes. Some, you know, people have been teachers have probably experienced that. But that, you know, is part of our process. And there was even

163a lot of intentionality. I really appreciated this. So Martha Hernandez, who's the principal at Kennedy when we were doing our prep before we did our walk, said, "Our school has a lot of windows." So you're going to go in a room, you're going to observe, your team's going to leave, and then you're going to want to have a conversation about what you observed. Please move away from the window because otherwise the teachers are seeing you having the conversation about them outside of the classroom. So I guess the two things that I'm that I'm trying to point to is there is a lot of intentionality and I appreciate the team. I know um the coaches and and the coordinators and the whole CIA team have been working really hard on this in partnership with the principles

164and assistant principles um and even with getting feedback from the teachers themselves, but they're really trying to to structure the process and be intentional about what the intention of it is and and not having it be something that's a stressor or, you know, feels punitive or or um >> negative in some way. And then I kind of want to check with the team like I don't know what I didn't get to ask. So this is probably not a stupid thing for me to do in a public meeting but I'm just kind of curious if you had a similar experience at the other schools where you felt like you know first two weeks of school but it it was a better being in the classroom experience than it may have been last year and just answer

165honestly. >> Yeah, this is exactly what we're here for. putting them on the spot. And if you didn't have any experience then that should be tilt too like it's okay you know it culture takes longer I feel to heal and to fix than outcomes to be honest academic outcomes seem so far out but there's certain things that we could put in place and shift the needle culture is a little bit different so if that's not the feeling that's okay that just means that we need to do extra love maybe on that site or whatever that looks like >> well and we need the honesty so we know that we can adjust and also as Dr. Ramos has taught us parallel processing is important. So how we have these conversations in here and the tone that

166we set in our conversations around data trickles through the system as to how that those conversations end up being with the teachers. >> I was going to share that um I wasn't there for that first week because I was sick. I had I was really sick so I didn't get a chance to my first one's going to be on Monday actually. But I do want to share to go back to your question too is that we've asked teachers what would make you feel more comfortable when we come in. So we set norms and the norms that we set things that they've asked us to do like don't talk while you're in here because we always go in pairs and and I'm guilty of that because sometimes I'll say Tyson what did they say and I

167can't do that because that comes across as like disrespectful to the teacher. The other thing they ask is like don't go talk where other people are around. We know you're debriefing but try to do that in a more private area. They've asked to please leave them a note. So, we always leave them a note. We've designed little data wise cards to leave them a note. >> Oh, I love that. >> Um they've asked us to, you know, kind of get they there's just like a list of norms that we go over and that teachers have asked us to do. So, we go over that um before we even do the learning walks as a reminder to everybody. One of them that we've told them that we're going to do is do evidence-based observations only. So

168instead of saying I'm just giving an example of all the kids were out of control in that class which is a not evidence-based I would say you know 10 out of 20 kids were out of their seats. >> Okay. >> And so you put only evidence-based data on any of our observations so they know there's no judgment. We're just trying to gather data to understand what's happening in the classroom so we can support better. Um so that's one of the things that we've done to make sure help our teachers feel more comfortable with every people coming in. And I think over time, like you're saying, it's like they're coming in and I'm like, you know, and they're going to give our our school feedback that we've been working on because all the schools also have

169data wise action plans that they're working on. So they want to know how they did on the learning walk. And last year towards the end, they were starting to say, "Tell me how I did right now." You know, I want to know and so they're getting excited about getting the feedback. So that's what happened over time last year. And then >> Dr. thoughts. >> Okay. Uh the only thing I would add, uh the learning walks were new for me this year being my first year in Kraton. Um one thing I think to the topic of culture is I think the more we are visible for our teachers, the more they feel more comfortable. Um one example I can give is I was in a classroom, the teacher had the ability to talk with us and

170I said, "You look so familiar to me." She's like, "I think we were stuffing backpacks together." And so and that was our connection. And so we did recognize each other. So I think the more we are in classrooms, the more people become familiar with us and it's less intimidating because we're in this together and you know we're all looking at it from a different point of view and then I know um every team takes it back to their team to see what can we do to better support our teachers and so for me I found them to be very positive in the first two days of school um or first week of school last two days of the week but um they were valuable. >> Thank you Dr. Dr. Pombo for um letting us know

171that there are some kind of norms. So that way teachers that we would now we know that at least there's some kind of norm going in there so they don't feel some type of way. And thank you for sharing that as a new employee because that's always a good sense to feel does this seem right? Does this seem wrong? How are teachers feeling? And for somebody who has a brand new perspective, I'm I'm happy to hear that that was your experience. >> So this is our last one, our guardrail four. Any questions? Yes. Uh this is a a wondering and I'm just wondering if there is something like an interim measure outside of learning walks that can be adopted or that we could come up with because I just just a wondering and it no

172that doesn't need to be answered. It's yeah you know because I I I know it's hard. I mean, we we absolutely could. Um what having been part of the conversations around this, we actually leaned further into learning lock data because even though these um guardrails aren't necessarily intended to be related to the goals, one of the things we're finding is that these shifts are what are having a significant impact on the positive results we're seeing. So where we're seeing change happening, we're seeing it correlate to the improvement in those goals. So if you were to look at our two schools that made significant gains last year, that the 10point shift school and the 15point shift school, there were significant increases in learning walk data. So th that that was sort of a um leading indicator

173to the lagging indicator of what the result was. So when we when we talk about this one, even though this one is really a guardrail and not a goal, the guardrail is about adult convenience versus progress of students. And so we can give you a different indicator or a different interim measure, but it will not be as highly accurate a predictor, I shouldn't say predictor, correlator um as using the learning walk data based on what we saw last year. So, we used some other things last year and um they you know we measured them and we did okay on them but we really didn't see that they were doing a great job of reflecting are are we focusing on academic progress versus the students needs in order to be able to achieve those student outcomes.

174So that's that's my simple answer. We ab if the board desires something that is not learning walk related we can absolutely make a change and deliver that. I just don't think it will be as functionally useful as these three measures would be >> and uh Mr. Man excuse me for a second miss um can you just let us know where the walking rubrics are pulled from? Is that a data waist thing? Is that a Danielson's framework or where is that walking rubric um specifically from? >> It's from the Danielson framework and then parts of it are from a learning target success criteria book to like get more detailed with learning targets and success criteria but most of it's from Danielson and Danielson is a pretty long rubric. So it's just pieces that we're working on

175from Danielson. >> And Danielson is the one that we just updated SWAP not too long ago because they even expanded more of their framework to align to the things that we're doing. So, that was interesting. Um, that's all I had to say. >> I'm just going to say I can honestly say like with the way that you've the >> Can you speak a little bit closer to the mic, please? >> Sorry, it sounds like it's not very loud at all. Um maybe >> I'm just saying like um the way that you've explained the learning um walk rubrics and the way that you're doing them and the way that it sounds like um the feedback from teachers and things like that um as a teacher myself like we crave we crave that feedback, right? Um just

176like our kids crave that feedback. And so having these learning walk rubrics um I think are a good telltale sign especially with the principles being on board because they're probably doing their own learning walks as well, right? And so um you're just capturing that small like moment in time when you guys go through but principles know, other teachers know, and you guys know if adult convenience is getting in the way because you can see it. You can almost immediately see it. um even another teacher going into to see somebody else teach, you can see it immediately. So, um that was just my two cents with, you know, being an educator and being in education. >> Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And one last thing I'll share about the guardrails is that it says in

177in the book, right, guardrails create the non-negotiables that must be honored while moving through the goals on the way to the vision for improved student outcomes. So, our walkthroughs literally are one of the biggest indicators to see if there is going to be improved student outcomes because if we're at a lower letter level of three, that's a direct indicator of maybe something's going off in the classroom, not necessarily to the teacher's fault, but PD, whatever it may be. And if we're not getting the grasp of the basics, it's almost like we even though we've been operating since the 1800s, there's a lot of system changes that we barely are kicking in in. And we do have to work from zero. Um I remember some of our last year's guard rails, we had a lot of

178zero pretend to something because it was something new that we were doing. Even though it existed in the realm of the things that we were doing, it wasn't as direct. It wasn't as specific. And these guard rails, although they can be changed, I think it's more for them and their expertise to tell us this is going to be the way that we're going to get our goals while protecting the vision of the community. And one of the biggest things that we did here is how are we supporting our teachers? Why are they not equipped? Then return to speak to our students and help them move the needle. And these walkthroughs have literally been I think one of the magic sauce that have been able to get us to that level. And it inherently has I

179in my view um supported our culture too because now teachers feel supported. They have that two-way communication with their administrators, their coaches, and now they're feeling heard. So in return, I believe that that psychologically gives them empowerment to then empower their students and be like, "Hey, now that I feel supported, I feel equipped enough to support you in your journey of learning." >> Well, that this is the last part, so I don't know if Mr. Man or turn over to Dr. Ramos. >> Um Dr. Ramos, it's almost going to be 12:00. We're going to start lunch. So, I don't know if you want to close us off with some reflective moments and then let us know what we're going to be getting into after lunch as well. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, the board as

180the staff has told you your responsibility is to to u your role is to vote up or down on the interims. And the reason that is it's the role that you get to play. It's you you don't get to pick the interims, but you get to ask questions and you get to vet them. And if you're not in agreement that these are actually going to get you to where you want to be, then I would first have a conversation with superintendent um and and share your perspective, your feedback. And it's I know it's going to be really difficult to not give advice and tell him what to do if you have a strong push back on a certain interim, but at least have a dialogue with him so that he can get a better understanding

181of what your expectations are because at the end of the day, remember, you represent the vision and the values. The guard rails are the values of the community and these are pretty important to folks in your community especially based on the feedback that you got. So their role they they design them, they're bringing them to you. They've put in a lot of hours and a lot of thought into them. Um I think if you look at the interns from even the first go around, you'll see that they they've had tremendous growth as a team. Um and then you also as a board, we'll talk about it this afternoon after lunch. Um, I hope that you see that you also have had some major growth as a board, especially when you do your board self-evaluation. So

182again, your role is to vet, vote up, vote down, but before voting down, I always encourage, please visit with the superintendent and express your thoughts, your wonderings, your questions, things of that nature. And the reason that is is because if you don't get to your goals and your guardrails, uh, most boards will want to blame the superintendent entirely for not having gotten there. Um, after lunch, we're going to connect some dots with your progress monitoring report that's in your in your packet. I want to make sure that u before I leave today that you have a clear understanding of why those are so important and how those are like puzzle pieces that connect to one another throughout the school year. And as you're monitoring, you're monitoring to see if this if the team is on

183track or not on track. And if they're not on track, you want to find out what's the plan. But before you get to what's the plan, you want to figure out how did we get here? what happened uh what's gotten us to this current state uh that we're currently in. And so in that progress monitoring, you're monitoring the interims and you're monitoring the goal in the guard rolls. So if you're not on track to win the game, let's say by halftime, which will be coming out of the holidays, I think you as a board are going to be really um excited and anticipating what your what your data is going to look like. Just like in a game, halftime gives us a pretty good opportunity to reflect and say, are we doing well or not?

184and if we are great um let's keep it up and if not we need to have a we need to have some kind of answers as a board as to what's the strategy. So that's the reason we're going to we're going to visit the progress monitoring after lunch. And then we're also in connection to that I'm going to work with all of you to make sure that you know how to ask um and distinguish between what are technical tactical and strategic questions. Um and I hope you'll see that the strategic questions get you to a really really deep deeper understanding of the data and what's working and what's not working. Technical and tactical can be some pretty quick responses from the staff. um you all have progressed in this arena as well. I just want

185to make sure that everyone as a team knows how to develop a strategic question and on that I'll give you the answer to it. If all of you submit one strategic question at least three days before the board meeting, you have more than enough time uh from the staff that you're going to spend you're going to easily spend an hour. If you replay the tape, um you'll you'll find out here in a bit exactly what your or you'll find out after lunch exactly how much time you spent monitoring student achievement in June, you you you all skyrocketed. You had a huge major jump and I know you were reviewing the data and and all that good stuff. But if you're coming out of there and you don't know if if you won the game or

186lost the game, uh that's what I want to make sure that we understand today. Lot of info, but no worries. We're going to go through it after lunch together. Any thoughts, reflections from you, Madam Chair? No, everything's perfect. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, according to our schedule, we've got lunch till 12:30. Um, everyone will be back here at 12 12:30. Ready to go? >> Yes. >> All righty. >> Thank you. That's me just testing this out. Thank you. Oh, the button on the bottom. >> It's not doing >> I put I charge batteries. >> No, I I don't have it on. [Music] >> This case is all messed up. Thank you. >> All right, we're going to go ahead and reconvene to get through the afternoon portion of our agenda. We're going to go ahead

187and get started with the technical versus tactical versus strategic questions and we will lead with Dr. Ramos. Go ahead. You have the floor. >> All righty. Thank you. Before Before we do technical technical strategic, I'll invite you to get pull out all four progress monitoring reports from goal number one for this past year because you just had a really robust awesome conversation with your team. They were telling you that the interims are going there going to be changes to them, all that good stuff. I want to invite you um at your table to work with at least one other person. So Tristan will find you a partner. You can join this group over here. Um what I want to invite you to do is progress monitoring reports are supposed to be like four puzzle pieces.

188They're supposed to they're supposed to interconnect. And I want to see if that's what you feel that you're looking at. And remember that your team worked really hard this year to get better at that. So I can also see the progression of the quality of the progress monitoring report here. But I just want you to see if if you can connect the dots from beginning of the year to the end of the year. Is it clear for you? Uh, did the team give you the information in a way that it was clear for you that you knew where you were starting your beginning of the year? And then when you got the final last report, could you connect the pieces and could you connect the dots that you know what helped you get some of

189these W's and and in the areas where you didn't meet it, is it clear to you on why you didn't meet it? So let's just replay the tape for the last year just on one goal and at the table invite you to have that conversation again. Let me see if I can be more clear. See if you can connect the dots from the first progress monitoring report to the second to the third and then the final one and then we'll uh I'll come back and visit and I'll come visit your tables and see what's coming up for you and then we'll process as a whole group. >> Can you give us a time frame on how much we're supposed to be spending on this? Yeah, I'd say probably about 11 12 minutes. >> Got it.

190Thank you. >> It's all for progress. >> Yeah, >> probably would help. Take a scam first. or whatever. Why? Everybody all three. We're the bite of the Sure. >> Noticed is that you know we had clarity in each of the first three reports that we were tried to make it into but continued to not be on track. The anomaly is, and I think this is related to what we talked about this, is that for the fourth quarter, we showed that we weren't on track for one of the measures, but the other measure, we showed that we did meet that measure. And so, so we didn't meet one, we met the other. So it doesn't really didn't really give us a clear indicator whether we were going to be successful or not because we had two

191contradictory measures. And so ultimately for this one, this was one of the goals that we didn't meet. And so when we were asked to pick one of the four, we chose to pick one that we didn't need because we thought that it be more important discussion and like how do we improve that for next year versus like we are we >> that first year >> I can report. >> Yep. being on track. >> Oh, it's you. >> It's me. I was What's making that noise? Yeah, I think that's a fair I mean I think that's a fair concern. Sure that we were that that in practice was kind of as much as the inputs that we were using I don't think were as effective ins that were put this year. So we put some things

192in place that over the course of pan out for us to to >> improve. And so that's why this year system that we're using is to go for success. So, but as far as the progress monitor reports getting >> I think one of the challenges that we have right now is >> I don't know that them being longer is making them look but it is taking a lot more staff time. So one of the other things that happened second half of the year is we had staff out of the classrooms more preparing longer progress monitoring reports. And so one of my concerns is like which benefits us more having longer progress. >> Who's the other person? Why is it called measure 1.1 Let's dive in. What What What's coming up for you as you look

193through all four reports connecting all the puzzle pieces together? Who will share first? Yes. So one thing one thing that I noticed is we have the data but on on 1.1 we were on target to meet meet it and then at the end we didn't meet it. So, um I know there's some there's some reasons why like it kind of shows that because we know like the targets move for like you know the testing and stuff but then the other one even though we did make it and it was targeted to meet like we overshot it in a good way but I'm still thinking to myself did I really understand like how we overshot it um by that much and so in both ways like the negative of, you know, the the way that we

194didn't meet it, but then the way we did meet it, I'm not sure that I really understood how we got there in either situation. >> Great, great, great. Thank you. Thank you for lead us off. Who will share next? Um, one of the things that Katie and I noticed was that for our final report, um, we do have at the beginning of the page, and this is more not technical, but more visually what's easier for our community and for us to read is that yes, we have the ASA scores up here of they actually, but we don't really have anywhere saying, hey, this was our goal. We did not meet the goal and these are this is what happened. Like I know that we have them for our interr like we did not meet intram

1951.1 but at the end I think of the fourth report not all the reports just the very last report needs to have a summary just like we have for the interrs also for the main goal or for the whole annual target goal. >> We don't have that data when we do report 4 because remember we did report 4 in June and we didn't get that data back until August. Well, the data is on here though. >> Oh, for some of them. Yeah. Yeah, for some of them we did. You're right. I I missed I shouldn't have spoke in generalities. There were some we didn't have back and there were some we did have back. That's correct. >> I think it'd be as easy as like taking this bottom section of the page and utilizing it

196because this is already on the wrong like then you would have this on the same page as the 1.1 and that on the same page as the other 1.2 and then just using the bottom of this page to put more information in there. That's like a synthesis of everything that's going to be in here. >> Oh, I don't I guess there slides. I don't know. But sure, add another slide so that then it's like organized. >> I was going to just clarify that the AASA on on the quarter, you know, the last report was kind of like a we didn't have the exact data. So, it's kind of we think it's going to be this based on our static file, but we didn't have the official static file and all the results until um late

197July, August. And so when we did when when we present on Tuesday, we have updated ones and we were close. We were like one percentage off or something like that. So those are kind of like the preliminary results. >> Okay. So I guess and this is where I was going when I was explaining this to you all. Um, these are called progress monitoring reports. And I understand our bigger goal is our whatever five-year goal. But if I'm thinking of this in a way of like one year at a time, to me, there'd be four of these and then a final report. That's that's what I thought. So that's why I was saying, well, where's our thing that talks about the end? >> It's attached to Tuesday's governing board. >> Exactly. That's what I was looking

198for when I was like, where's that thing? Um, and you were like, it's already in here. And I was like, no, I think we have another thing. Um, and so that's why I was like, okay, there should be a whole separate thing that's just for like final thing. >> And just to add for that, so we're not adding confusion to individuals that don't know the system. Maybe we shouldn't be putting that information and we don't have it and waiting until we actually have the results because then this is kind of misleading. If some especially for us, if I'm taking this paper in front and that conversation comes up, be like, "Oh yeah, it's on Tuesday. Well, then why did you add it on here?" just to add more clarity that it's okay that we don't

199have the data yet. >> This is what's going to happen. Maybe this report needs to be moved at the end of our calendar to when we do have the data. even if it shifts us a little bit different. But um I would rather have concrete data than going back and changing and just because these are records and we are going to be going back to them pulling them and seeing how we're through the years or through the quarters moving and it just adds a little bit of confusion. >> I I think it was an error on our part because of describe it as PTSD. So, um, there have been times in the past, um, not this board, not this leadership team, where there's been accusations that the data is out there and we're not sharing

200it because we're hiding it because that, you know, the data may not be positive in some way. And so, um, one of the things that I've that I've tried to do in my first couple of years is whatever data we have, whether it's preliminary or final, making sure the board has it as soon as we can comfortably provide it. So, it's not like we're keeping it behind closed doors, but I think you're absolutely right. Even if we provide it to the board in a board update, it really shouldn't be included in these reports. And I think it's my personal opinion and the board, my team members, and Dr. Ramos can tell me I'm wrong, but I think it's fine to have progress monitoring report 4 without that data in it because the progress monitoring reports

201are about the interim measures. And so we intentionally have our kickoff conversation for the year um on this next Tuesday because ne now is when we have the actual final data set. And so that's so and it's a much shorter report because it's like it's like the scoreboard at the end of the basketball game. There's two numbers, right? Doesn't make a difference how many assists I had. you know, if I got 27 rebounds, the end of the game, all that matters is what's what's, you know, what's the winning score, right? And so, um, so we've got that I think it's just four slides, that slide deck, and it's just >> it's six. >> Was it six? >> I'm looking at it right now. And so I guess what I would say then is um kind

202of on the same lines of what we were just saying maybe even I know it's very explicit but like putting on there like in red somewhere like we did not meet this goal or like we met this goal, you know, just to make it a little more clear cuz it really is just these slides, right? And so I I I know that seems weird but I think just to make it easier to see what's going on here. I don't think it sorry >> I don't think it's weird because what we need to understand is that we're going into public settings that have never seen this information. So we need to make it as colorcoded as easily because even with us that we've been doing this for almost two years we have questions looking at this

203board reports. So the more we did not meet in red yes great like we've been doing with the other intrams that would be perfect. So I don't think it's too much to ask. It's just >> yeah, it's just a little bit easier. So, we're able to fluidly present it to the community and we're not getting these like, oh yeah, you're right. What's going on? So, it's a little bit more um visually appeasible to understand. >> Yeah, that that's an easy fix. We can certainly do that. >> Yeah. And and I think because of the Heather, you asked this question earlier before lunch um and I've heard it at the tables. you're preparing to start getting ready to go educate your community and and the more clear you are on what's happening uh included in there,

204you're right, Superintendent Jay, that you're you're getting updates on the interims, but I also want to remind the team, they want updates on the overall goal as well. And the reason being because they are monitoring these and they they do want to see correlation, but at the end of the day, they're going to be asked by the community about the overall progress towards a goal. So, um, adding what you're looking for sounds like it's going to be really good for the board. It sounds it's gonna be really good for the community as well to know what you're doing. >> Today's conversation about the changes in the interim measures and the cut scores is what I would be looking for for an annual report for the goal progress because that to me is telling me, okay,

205well then how do we switch just for this school year? How are we adjusting for the annual goal? So, I would look for that information in an annual report when we're talking about the annual goal, the stuff we talked about today. >> I think the part that that um will help the board as well from the staff side is to put the annual target. And so, you did right you it's it's it's in there, but I want to ask the board, what was your what was your annual target for this past school year on the overall goal? cuz you were Yeah. You were going you wanted to go from 73 to 48. Where did you end up this year? >> 79. Okay. So, let me write it up here. >> Good. Yeah. So, the annual

206goal was 71 because you wanted to this is a decrease goal, right? >> So, if you're a community member, board members, you're saying, "Hey, this is our goal." And then you're going to come, you're going to say, "We're at 79." What are you anticipating? >> Why did it go up? >> Why' it go up? >> They're going to be Yep. >> What would you say after the conversation you had today with your leadership team and the progress monitoring in June? Not staff board. What would you say? And it's okay if you don't know, but this is the reason I wanted you to walk I wanted to walk you through this because this is what you're really doing at progress monitoring. If you're leaving progress monitoring and you don't know where we're at, how we got

207there, um we've got we got some we got some gaps to to close. Um and so yeah, they're going to ask you why did it go up >> and you as a board, you don't want superintendent will likely be there, right? >> But you as a board, you're the owners of the system. So you want to be able to articulate to the community, this is what happened. And guess what? After you tell them how you got there, how this went up, then you're going to tell them the strategy that the superintendent and the leadership team are implementing to get this to go back down. >> What questions, what thoughts, what wonderings do you have about? >> And since you have it right here, I'll give a brief of what that would look like. My response

208to this would be well based off of all the four progress monitoring reports that we had. One of the biggest things is that we knew that our teachers weren't equipped with the professional development and we did spend a lot of the time through the progress monitoring reports going through mathematical cohorts making sure that our teachers and I know it's a little step back but also what this tells us is that we're being transparent and obviously we have a lot more rigorous work to do. So we did fail this goal. We backtracked a little bit, but that's I think leads into the new interr will be predictive of all the little things that they were telling us of the inputs, what's working and what's not and what we're going to do this year to make sure

209that that's moving the needle. That's something that I would just on the top of my head kind of um say this. So that's why it's important for us to know these reports. And one thing I want to add is that this is going to be huge especially when we move into our school board of school because part of us training our community is making sure that if any of them one of these days want to run for office in Kraton that they know that this is the expectation. we're already giving them the tools on how to lead them into these conversations if they want to be making these decisions or continue this monitoring for our students. So, it's it's important that we have this together. That way, we're not only empowering our community, but we're

210also empowering the next leaders of Curtain to continue this work and not just be shut down because of somebody that new that comes in. Other thoughts, questions? I hope I hope you're excited about your progress monitoring reports into the new school year. Haven't had a chance to replay the tape of four progress monitoring reports. And I'm I'm excited to see Tuesday's meeting, right, to see what your data what that final um outcome was and how how did it happen. And and I think two things I want to mention. one, when you as a board are going to go and share this with the community here sooner rather than later, um I think staff will hopefully feel some type of pride of that their their board listens to them and is is internalizing the material and

211now at a point that they're going out and educating the community. Um and then the other part to this is the the ability to be able to grow as a team and tell the story. There are there are some really good things in these reports. Uh while that's probably going to be a big focus for the everyday person, you also have an opportunity to frame the messaging. And so you want to give a really good balanced report to the community. And so yeah, what we learn, professional development, what we learned, and then these are the strategies that the team is implementing, you're going to elevate the whole district's perspective on what's really happening in your school system. And not only that, but it really solidifies the community feedback that we got when we first did

212this around, right? We overlywhelmingly heard that they felt teachers weren't certified or they weren't given the need or the things that they needed to teach students. So, this in a way is saying, "Hey, we heard you. We really honor our teachers and we really do feel that they should have the number one most educated teachers in class." And this reports have told you that we've been taking steps to make sure that teachers are fully equipped in order to teach our students. So we can also tie it back into this is why we do community feedback. It might not look directly how you're saying it, but we are listening and we are changing systems within the district to listen to you guys and pre give you guys outcomes based off of the feedback we got. >>

213Awesome. I I I find it I find this is a good opportunity for us to practice the importance of distinguishing between technical, tactical, and strategic questions. You have that document in your folder. It is this this one right here. Yeah, it's this one. So, I I took the liberty of writing three questions that were recently asked at your board meetings that you as board members asked. And I I want us to take a take an opportunity to try to distinguish if if the question that I wrote up here is a technical question, a tactical question or a strategic. But before we go there, we got to disting What are those? Would somebody please um tell us what a technical question is? What does it say in the parenthesis? >> Yeah, trying to understand how something

214is measured. So you see those examples there based on the goal in the paragraph above as as your sample. So what's the alignment of the portfolio assessment with the SAT or ACT? You're trying to figure out how something is being measured. What is a tactical question? What does it say in parenthesis? >> Trying to understand how something is done. >> Correct. So to whom is the assessment administered? Which staff have been trained to administer the assessment? How do how do staff feel about the assessment? Those are tactical questions. What is a strategic question? What does it say in the parenthesis? >> Trying to understand how something aligns to priorities. >> That's right. So, this one is a deeper dive. And you'll notice that with the examples that are given there, each one of you submit

215one strategic question for every progress monitoring report. You've got plenty to monitor because they're going to go take a deep dive. So, this is important for the staff to hear what this is going to look like because um staff, if you're getting like more than 10 questions, you're you're probably spending a heck of a lot of time going and digging up the data and the information. So, the idea is not to be to to spend a ton of time just to spend a ton of time on progress monitoring. The idea is for you as a board to be clear on are we getting better, are we not? If so, why? And if not, why not? and the the effectiveness is really what we want to see in your board meeting because you're already a pretty

216disciplined board and I can't wait to share your data with you a little bit. Uh but we're now on the on the course of trying to make you a very effective board. Strategic questions are going to help you get there. So would somebody please read the first paragraph under focus and timing? >> I'll do it. >> Can you put your the mic near you, please? Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh technical questions focus on understanding the details surrounding the assessment and goal details themselves. Tactical questions focus on understanding the details surrounding implementation of the assessment and goal. Strategic questions focus on understanding relative to the goal what we've learned about system performance and what lessons we've learned from that performance. No questions during an effective monitoring conversation are focused on providing advice to the superintendent

217board member opinions about system performance or efforts to project to project manage the school system. >> Keep going. >> No, hold on. What are y'all getting from this first paragraph? >> What do you mean? what's coming up for you as you you read that first paragraph as a group >> that it's not about our opinion. >> Yeah, that's part of it for sure. >> I mean, remember right in the training we talked about you have you have you have your educational expert that you've hired your we're going to talk about evaluations a little bit too and that's that's their role, right? Your role is to ask questions to to to be clear on what's happening. um unless you've been a superintendent and even at that if you've been a superintendent here there's a big gap

218from where you're sitting to what he's doing on a regular basis as you saw today with the description from the whole team he's responsible for the alignment of everything that you've given him in terms of goals and guard rails that's that's what he that's what his job is. So yeah, and and what I want you to what I really want you to get away from this today, your biggest superpower is asking questions. And the better that question is, the more strategic it is, I think you're going to find how powerful it's going to be for you as a board member. You don't have to worry about telling him what to do. Even though you might have the urge that you want to tell him what to do, but in asking him a really good strategic

219question, it's like you're playing defense with him to some degree. Like we're we're backing him up. Like, no, can't let you just show me a shiny penny, superintendent, man. >> Like, I asked you a very specific strategic question with data in it. I'm looking for some answers on this because my job is to trust you and to verify that what we're doing here is moving. Because if you go the whole year again and this number keeps going up, my question to you as a board is how have you been showing up at progress monitoring? Have you zoomed in and asked him the tough questions? And have you have you made sure that before you leave this board meeting that you are convinced that the strategy that they're using is going to turn that data move

220it down the way you set it out to set the way you wanted it to work. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. And the other thought that I had, I know that we didn't read the second paragraph. But one of the things that pops up to me is that technical and tactical live within our governing board role, but maybe not when we're conducting business. That I I to me that's a a time for a one-on-one or whatever that looks like because technical and technical are more understanding of the current systems that we have. And in order for us to come up with good strategic questions, we obviously need to have a baseline of what that system looks like. Um it's just that when we're on the board and actually asking these strategic questions, we only

221get a few hours a month to really get to the bottom of these things and technical and tactical can live in that space. I just don't believe that operating in the few hours that we have on the dis is the appropriate place and this is why it's good for us to start getting used to getting these strategic questions so they live on the board. >> Go ahead and read that second paragraph for us then because I want I want to give you some feedback on that. >> Technical and tactical questions are often essential to having a full understanding of current system performance. There is nothing wrong with board members asking tech oh technical and technical question. >> Say that again. Read it again for us. >> There is nothing wrong with board members asking technical

222and tactical questions. Timing matters. However, the superintendent expected to be the strategic leader over the school systems operations during a monitoring conversation with the superintendent. It is unreasonable to expect them to also have a mastery of every technical or tactical detail. So, if school board members want answers to those questions to be part of the monitoring conversation, they need to ask those questions at least 5 to seven days in advance of the monitoring session. If that hasn't happened, board members are welcome to still ask new technical and tactical questions during the monitoring session, but the board chair and or superintendent should advise them to that those answers will go out in the next update from the superintendent to the board. So simply said, my friends, he he cannot know every single detail if you throw

223it on him at the spur of the moment. Um you don't want him to give you false information. You don't want them to make anything up. So you also got to continue to create the space because you have uh to let him say, you know what, we don't have that information in front of us right now, but we will gladly get it to you in x amount of days. And then you're right, you read it in that second line. Please do ask follow-up questions. The follow-up questions are likely going to be more technical and tactical. So, at the board meeting, it's not just you receiving the info. This is supposed to be a dialogue between you and the superintendent and his team. Make sense? All right. Last piece. Will somebody read past >> Jones? Did

224you have a question or a thought? >> Sorry. Yeah. >> No, it's okay. >> Oh, no. I was just in the meetings I I've observed when we've been given reports I think your team has done an excellent job of like if they don't know the answer they come back and uh it may not be the next meeting but someone will go oh I remember you asking that so I think if we actually went and looked at all our meetings you would see that you know displayed so that was my thought that's what it's going on in my head >> yeah thank you for sharing that though because they have been which I think this makes it easier in the collaboration we have because it's almost like we're working together without you know we ask a

225question and I have had that instance with two board meetings they're like oh I remember a board member said this and we finally figure it out so yes that's that's great work in itself already >> I mean to me asking the technical and the tactical like other board members could have the same question but also isn't it being very um transparent for a community who probably does not understand like a lot of you know maybe what we're measuring or things like that. So to be transparent like asking those questions I think are also important in front of our community um so they get >> 100%. Yeah. And um yes, absolutely. And I think once we do a study session on two-way communication, that's why it's so important for us to be out in the community

226and giving these conversations to them because when they get to the board level, then they kind of have a minimal understanding. But that to me that fall by back on us. you know, if our community members watching our board meeting and they don't understand, then we've done we were lacking in our two-way communication to make sure they are up to speed. Um, I think historically, yes, our board meetings are open for community because they should know, but our business should be board operating business and we should be out not expecting them to show up and understand everything while we're conducting our business here. This business time is really this conversation. How are we going to pivot? what are we doing? And then the understanding and having that two-way communication I think is so important because

227to me this is more engagement not nec or outreach no engagement not outreach and outreach is where all those other things will live in there of this is why we do this this is why we're having this two-way ask your questions here by the time they get here it's a fluid understanding >> please ask questions >> yeah and the as you work through this, you we're going to go to this other document a little bit. I'm going to give you something that can help you guide into designing even more effective questions. The idea is for you to be able to zoom in and allow the superintendent and them to go get you the information and bring it back to you at the board meeting. You bring up a good point, Heather, because if if you

228ask the same question as someone else on the board does, someone should probably be monitoring those questions. And it's usually the board president, by the way, or the board officers who will will keep track. And then that way Tristan if you submit a question. Oh, okay. Well, Nicole already asked that question. You know, is there is there something else on the report that you're wondering about um that will be helpful if if as you move through progress monitoring. Now, the other thing is, and I haven't said it, but let me be very very clear. Most board members don't read their packets before the board meeting. So, you have been working to change that behavior and you're preparing for meetings, you're submitting questions. um that that typically is about a five six month journey for most

229boards. So you you are demonstrating that you are reading your packets and that you're submitting questions because you're even putting the questions up on the screen for people to follow along. I will invite you to to watch just a random board meeting around the state or around the country. That is not the norm. So you're modeling parallel processing for a lot of the folks. Would somebody please read past versus future because this is really important as well. >> I'll read it. >> Regardless of whether or not a question is technical, tactical, or strategic in focus, they can just as easily focus on past actions. What have our strategies been? And what have been the impacts on performance as on future actions? What strategies will we deploy given what our performance currently shows? Boards that are

230monitoring effectively will invest the majority of their time, preferably upwards of third three quarters of the monitoring session focused on understanding the past. Where are we? How did we get here? What worked? What didn't work? What did we learn? Only once a board is fully conversant in and knowledgeable of what has happened can it meaningfully engage in future focused dialogue. Ineffective >> it's just okay. Ineffective board succumb to the temptation of mostly focusing on tech technical tactical their opinions and statements or what will happen next. These are weaknesses of discipline and vision and should be corrected. Miss Mr. AJ Craig will be being direct right there. >> Yeah. Um I'm hoping that after we do this next piece too that this perspective will be elevated even more the the past and it took me a

231while to understand why AJ and the council was moving in that direction. I was always more focused on what's the plan? What's the plan? Right? As soon as you say 79, your community is going to be like what's the plan? What are you going to do? But if you cannot tell them how you got there, >> we got a major issue >> because then you're not how can you really be convinced of what the strategy is if you don't know how you got there? So the questions that that I would have for you after reviewing your four progress monitoring reports is do you know how that happened? And if the answer is no, I'll invite you to visit with the superintendent and let him just give it to you straight up like try to shorten

232it and sweet like here's what happened. here's how we got here. Here's how this number went up. Because that's what your community is going to need from you. They're going to need you to be short, sweet, and blunt about it. This is what happened. Then you can focus on because we know how this happened. Now, I can tell you that as a board member, I'm convinced of the current strategy or I'm very very encouraged with the current strategy, but I know how we got here. And so then I can understand how we're going to do better this coming year. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Sweet. All right, let's practice. These are actually questions from this board at a random board meeting that I watched uh last night to to prepare. So, here's a

233question. How many teachers teach targeted and integrated structured English immersion SEI model? I want you to visit at your table. Is that a technical, tactical, or strategic question? No grace. We're going We're going to ask for grace. Everybody got it? What does this table say? >> Tactical. What do y'all say? >> Splits. >> Split how? >> Between >> split between and and these splits can happen by the way. Technical and tactical. >> What does this table say? >> We said it was tactical. >> Tactical. All right. Who wants to explain why they believe it is the way it is? >> What were you saying, Tristan? >> Oh, well, >> I uh Nicole and Jay said tactical and I held back a little because I didn't know you could mix. So, uh >> you do whatever

234you want, Nick. >> Yeah, I know. But the measure uh to me when you use how many that l you know I could say well you could make an argument then that that is a measure. Other thoughts from the Sue >> say tactical because how it's done how is it's yeah how is how are those the SEI taught >> how by how many teachers >> why why were we all split >> it was just me. I I just >> um I'm thinking more in like such a basic level of just like a number and thinking about like yeah the data you're going to get the data back but what is it like what is the data really telling you? I could give you a number but >> I guess you're not diving deeper into anything

235else other than that question. >> That part you just said a lot right there. That's it. So, you want to have obviously an understanding, right? But the really effective questions, you're going to dive deep. You're going to ask them such a probing question. It's going to be a deep conversation. So, yeah. And then why do y'all say tactical? >> Uh I was just like pretty similar to one of the uh examples under the tactical question. >> Okay. like which staff have been trained or >> Okay, >> here's another question that was asked at at one of your board meetings. >> We don't get the answer. >> No, not till we go through all of them. >> Oh, okay. I'm going to forget about the first question. >> As long as y'all said that it wasn't

236strategic is the main thing I was looking for. >> Okay. >> Yeah. What systems are in place to ensure students with the lowest self-management skills, example, sixth grade, male, sped, are receiving differentiated intentional supports throughout the year, not just at survey time. Is that a technical, tactical, or strategic question? >> Strategic. >> Well, it's long. You're like my kids cuz as long as it's >> actually hold on. Can Can you move a little bit please? Yeah. >> Yeah. I would say strategic two or no thanks mostly strategic but it feels like It's missing a key element of a strategic question. >> What's that key element? >> The key element is a tie back to the data. >> I'm talking about the priorities. That's for sure. So I guess then okay I would reward your parenthesis

237if you want to tell AJ this to say trying to understand how data aligns to the priorities not something because I think that could throw people off but then all your examples talks about the data that's the something >> well and and if I could permutate that a little bit >> I think in this case the something is the differentiated intentional supports. I think it would be um how something aligns to the priorities in relation to the data. >> Okay. Yeah. I was like it's missing from the example too is what I was going to say because it's not really what's in the example. >> Everyone in agreement. No. What do you think? >> I mean yes I do. Can I just have an example of what what do you mean by that including data?

238>> Go ahead. >> Oh, sorry. Um, and I didn't mean to jump over you because you know given the results of interim measure 1.2. >> Okay, got it. >> How will we how how are we providing these supports to make certain that they're not just >> Got it. >> reflecting at the end. >> And the that this this gray page I think is grayish, right? This one is going to we're going to go through it here after this last one and you'll see that this is this gives you the how-to how to compose a a strategic question. All right, last one. How is the district ensuring that restorative practices are not just documented but implemented with fidelity, reflection and relevance to students lived experiences, technical, tactical, or strategic? >> I need time. Sure. >> I

239just tell my kids that, but I do. Yeah, >> I'll start over here this time. Um, well, we we just we just discussed I said there was a little bit of both and then my lovely partner said she believed it was more tactical and I'm going to switch my answer um because the um in technical we're not really measuring anything. So, I think it's more a tactical question or we both agreed it was tactical. She persuaded me the public defender did. >> So, technical or tactical? >> Tactical. Anybody got anything different? >> What' y'all get? >> I'm going to ask if there's trick questions included here. >> Well, the reason I ask that is practices aren't in any of our measures. So for me, this one felt more like um the temptation to create a

240question that's trying to guide the superintendent as to priority. So, and I don't know if that's true or not, but if if everything is supposed to tie back to the progress monitoring report and this, you know, what are our interim measures and then what are the inputs? You know, we're supposed to stay focused on inputs, outputs, and outcomes, right? Um I have you know it's hasn't been a common thing but I have noticed that some questions and it may not even be intentional sometimes are like driving towards well I would like to see this and so the question is structured in such a way like don't forget about restorative practices even though that may not be related to the progress monitoring report itself. That's why I asked if it was a trick question. No >>

241for the brave space convo on that one. I I could see where you're coming from with this and I think it's very difficult given how the interim measures are written especially for guard row one to like ask super strategic questions about like a panorama survey especially since we've never taken the survey ourselves right so I think this is something that could be an element of whether or not kids are responding favorably to whether they have indicators of self-management right if you don't have indicators of selfmanage management, you're probably getting a lot you're probably participating in a lot of restorative practices is what I'm going to assume. So, I I could see how this could be related to a guard rail. I think it's just harder with the guard rails because the data isn't so tied

242to um it's not so tied to like a finite thing. Like these things are so fluid and can be influenced by so many things that it's hard to understand or pinpoint exactly. And I don't even think y'all would know the answer exactly of, you know, where how these kids are getting to changing answers in their indicators of self-management either. But I think that's why we have to ask these kind of questions maybe. I don't know, not exactly this one, but I could see other questions where you might have an issue with them that are similar to this. >> Yeah. And I and I was working from just to be clear because I think what you said is absolutely true. I was working from the assumption that this question was related to a goal, not a

243guard rail. So if this is a question that was related to a guardrail, I agree with you 100%. So I I was working from the assumption that it was a goal question, >> but you're bringing the reason why we're going to go to this next page on why it is important for you all to move more towards strategic questions, at least for the ones you're going to submit ahead of time. Um, and so anybody got anything different than tactical? This one's more tactical. Do you want the answers? >> Yes, please. >> Tactical almost strategic the by by you'll you'll know that actually we may be able to make this one more strategic here in a bit. But yeah, definitely more strategic. And then this one, this one's definitely more tactical for sure. So y'all y'all

244are assessing right on point. And then again, just use that piece of paper as your guide. And your this one is going to be even more helpful. the one that says effective question asking. So, for example, here's what I want you to do. I want you to take the fourth and final report of your progress monitoring. And I want to invite you to to to replay the tape of how you would if you could go back to June. What is a strategic question that you may have asked to get clarity around this right here. Remember I said if you don't know how you got here, this is an opportunity for you to practice to write a strategic question with your with your with your teammates at the table. Write a strategic question. And here's your

245descriptors. You're going to want it to be in a smart question format. I think you'll see the power of it if you if you if you really look to implement it. First one, it says it's strategic. So we know what that is between strategy strategic versus technical and tactical. Now you're going to take it from just being a regular strategic question. You're going to make it a smart strategic one. The second part is you're going to want it to have a measure focused. The third part is you're going to want it askoriented. Sophia, would you read ask oriented for us please? >> Is the question open-ended or is it a yes no multiplechoice question? Also consider the tone of the question. If the question is asked in a confrontational or accusatory manner, it automatically fails

246to be taskoriented since a respectful and professional approach is more likely to yield valuable information than a confrontational or accusatorial approach. >> You can watch just about any random board meeting and you'll see that a number of boards are going to fell in that arena. >> And then surprise surprise, why the staff don't give you all the information? because they haven't modeled the behavior of a of a safe space for staff. Like I said, kudos to you here. Y'all are setting the bar really high for a lot of folks. I don't know if you know this, but a lot of folks are watching your board meetings and this they're actually they're they're pretty impressed at how how great of a culture you've been creating and continue to create as a team because you're modeling that.

247You're allowing the space for the staff to be honest with you. And when they've got some data that's not looking good, they're not hiding it from you. >> They're giving it to you. >> Were you going to say something? >> I was just going to say that's not how it's always been. So, it's good to to think about that, especially for the newcomers. >> Yeah. All right. Results focus. Somebody please that one. Read that one for us so we're all on the same page. >> Results focus. Does the question focus on understanding data rather than sharing opinions? Also consider the tone and approach of the question. Is the question being asked with the purpose of authentically learning about the data? Or is the question really just advice giving or recommendation making in disguise? Is the

248question directly related to understanding data about board work, the goals, the guardrails, and our legally required items? If the question is not directly related to board work, it should likely be avoided. >> Yeah. during progress monitoring and then time bounds. >> Does the question focus on current performance, past actions, or future performance, future actions? Additionally, consider the timing of the question. Is the question being asked at an appropriate time in the decision-making process? If a question is being asked too late in the process, that's a governance failure, not a management failure, and should not be allowed to harm the process. Preparation is key. >> Yeah. So there you have an an effective example and you have an ineffective example. So I'd like you to use this part of the document to compose one question with

249your table. Everyone doesn't have to create their own, but everyone work at creating one strategic question in smart format. Again, you have the effective example in front of you. It's what you were talking about Jay just a minute ago to be able to take to connect this to a specific goal or guardrail is going to be instrumental in the way that you they're going to give you the information at the board meeting as well. So have fun. I'll give you about 10 minutes to come up with a strategic question based on that fourth and final progress monitoring report you got here in June. So again, >> you get to replay the tape. What's a question you may have asked that could have helped you get better understanding of how that 79% came about? This projected

250data is what you're saying. This was projected data. This is actually the end data. That's so that's the actual end data. It was the other one that was projected. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. I mean, I'm almost tempted to ask about like >> like looking at the data like we actually did decrease. So it's not like um It's easier to pull up a tactical technical tactical Yeah. Is that what that's saying? Sorry. trying to develop. How would that come? [Music] seems to >> not have adequately across >> which in the hood place. more efficient. So, how are you going to do this? I guess you [Music] You can ask it. Just ask it in a strategic format. Smart. Even if you know the answer already >> some of that still seems technical to me rather You're

251asking about which inputs didn't work. >> So you're struggling with just trying to find something more strategic and less tactical like these inputs of >> I think that's well strategic you're trying to understand how something align >> and I'm not saying it's right. Yeah. >> My thought was >> on misalignment of theut >> well that's the like in these presentations >> it's almost like the input >> you're telling us the inputs and then here's the results but how are those two really like I mean I can make assumptions but I don't know what's going on in the classroom. I mean the teachers are getting trained >> but what happens after that? >> Yeah. >> So that's intention >> better. But the question is what is better? >> Yeah. Because for me strategic say >> we're

252seeing I'm looking at these results and I know the overall strategy is five years. Are there other are there better interm like when we looked at the current met versus the term measure >> is the current measure in or lined up with the strategy something like that answer >> I think yeah like we're addressing the student engagement because Does that make sense? >> Well, how a lot of us questions say based on based on% of the elementary basically tie back to Yeah. >> Measure was the one >> I'm looking at September. Uh >> that's okay. Yeah. Intern measure we hit 72 >> current measure >> was the one we did. >> So that may be so the like you're talking about the murmur I thought >> which one of >> what you described for the

253It shows it >> or maybe we can't use why or I'm not saying we can't use specific Why did this one go up? >> She write it on paper. And then eighth grade. >> Can we say which? open >> which inputs worked for the the current or the uh >> interm like a strategic question. No, because it has a line. Okay, if you ask which >> you want to just Everything doesn't >> I can run an abandonment. were effective. >> Should I say meeting or aligning with me or >> Why didn't they work? were expected. Worked expect the current All right. Give us a sheet of paper. long enough after lunchtime. I'm always like struggling. I always I know. [Music] >> Uh, possibly. Okay. Yeah. And I mean, and I'm not used to like I

254don't have like a fulltime job, so I'm not used to >> that worked or like after lunch. Oh, that should be right. Yeah. You're on a Yeah. [Music] >> I love that strategy. I love it. >> I'm gonna download it and then >> I can't There are some people that >> million. post pictures. >> Someone was in there. Oh, >> I love that. That's why I like I don't need to come up ready for a formal dinner. Sparkly intimidating. >> I am 44. Yeah, >> I will. I understand now. Is that the same But we make it so >> after I The restaurant itself though that would be a great place to go as a vegan. >> Yeah, I definitely have options. We already have a meat or whatever. >> How would you start? Jackie,

255but it's almost like >> Yeah. All right. I got to I do not >> meet them for time effectiveness. I mean, [Music] >> we >> did last one. >> Okay. I'm looking forward to >> Oh, that's okay. for it is >> anyway on All right, y'all ready? Let me get my mic. >> All right, teamwork time. looking at that smart page and I've also got it up on the screen. I want to ask you to tell me if if these three are truly smart strategic questions. So the first part we'll go with this one everyone in the room looking at the data for fifth grade growth in math. What instructional practices can we replicate in eighth grade math? Is this a strategic, technical, or tactical question? First of all, >> I would say it's strategic.

256>> Okay, y'all think it's strategic? Next part. Measure focus. Does the question reference specific metrics or data that have been provided at the request of the school board? >> Yes. Where's that at? >> I can barely see that right now. [Laughter] Is it ask oriented? Is it an open-ended question versus a yes, no, or multiple choice? And then obviously we're going to ask it in the best of tone if possible. So, so we say that it is askoriented. Okay. Is it results focused? Does it focus does the question focus on understanding data rather than sharing opinions? >> Yes. Cool. And is it time bound? Does the question focus on current performance or future performance? >> Where do we see that at? >> Replicate. Can we replicate? >> Oh, nice. Okay. And then uh yeah, that's

257it. So, would we say that this is a smart strategic question? >> Well done, team. Good job. All right, let's go to this one. I'm going to read the question. It says, "Which inputs were effective with the interim measure that we met but not the current measure that we did not meet? Is this a strategic, technical, or tactical?" I'm asking these two tables. I think it's strategic. It's just it's just missing. >> Okay. >> So, we're saying it's strategic, but maybe not fully smart strategic. >> Okay. So, let's check it. >> It's Oh, I was never mind. Go ahead. You're going to go through your little thing. >> Yeah. Measure focus. Is it measure focus? >> No. >> That's a that's a trick. >> The input. So the measure was >> we're not tying it

258back to a specific piece of data that we're seeing in the report though. We're leaving it up to them. It's too open-ended. And also I think that the driver is for me I think the driver for me on measure focuses is that has been provided at the request of the school board and the interrums technically aren't things that we're specifically looking for. That's something that's set and told to us. So in a strategic why are you looking at me like that? The interim measures, right? The inter measures usually the superintendent gives to us. So, I I don't know. Maybe I'm not I still don't know. Maybe the data is missing. I still I think it is strategic, just not smart. >> I feel like you could make two questions out of this and tie different

259or tie data to each one. It feels like two questions to me that just aren't quite there yet. >> What would make this more measure focused >> besides the word measure in there? Well, which interim measure are we talking about? >> That's a good question. Which interim are we talking about? >> The one that we met. Hold on. >> The one that we met. >> Okay. >> And then which was the one that you did not meet? >> Okay. >> Got it. >> And then can you move one more sec? Sorry. that intro. >> That one, >> huh? >> Okay. >> So, we think maybe that'll make it more measure focused, referencing specific metrics or data. Yeah. >> What are you struggling with? >> I think I'm struggling with the fact that >> it doesn't

260reference specific metrics or data. It doesn't me it doesn't reference anything specific. I think it's I think what I'm getting confused with is number one this like yes we were meeting we were meeting and then we didn't meet. I'm not sure that those were effective just because we met him at that point in time. I'm thinking and I think that was corrected by maybe doing what we spent the morning on doing. >> So maybe with my current knowledge like it's it's confusing me. So maybe what I'm think I'm hearing from you is maybe that we're missing the results focused in the question because because it says does the question focus on understanding the data rather okay yeah it does I'm still getting stuck on the boardwork part right because ins are given to us so

261technically Yes, it is our job to ask and yes, we approve the intram measures. >> Actually, not asking about the >> Oh, the inputs. Yeah, >> there if if you zoom out even more. Um, I'm I'm actually going to bring this up after the board selfie eval, but let me go ahead and prep you for it a little bit. your goal. That was your target and that's what you got. >> Your interim, that was your target and that's what you got. You met one because that was your target and that's what you got. If you met this one but didn't meet this one and that still went up, do you understand why? And does this correlate as well as you think it does? And you just went through a really good session this morning. Right.

262So this is the growth that your leadership team is demonstrating that I want you as a board to stay with them on it because then that kind of a question if you zoom out even more on which inputs were effective in the interim 1.2 if this isn't showing any real correlation to fixing this then we're spending time spinning our wheels. You have to be convinced that this is going to improve that and that these you're going to have three of them now. You as the board got to be convinced that those three are going to change that number. >> This question is asking so assuming that both of those are accurate. This question is asking something we did allowed us to meet endur >> why did if we used the same inputs for both of

263these why did it not provide the same >> why didn't you ask it like that because that makes way more sense >> now you're picking >> no yeah I was gonna change my mind and >> somebody in the audience if I looked at this I'd be like I wouldn't know what you're trying to get at if I was the person tasked with answering this question. But the way you worded it just now made way more sense to me than the way it's worded on that paper. >> What what I am submitting to you is that the more smart it is, the more clarity is kindness. The more smart it is, the more clear it can be for everyone in the room and the more clear it can also be for people outside of this room.

264So let's finish going through it. Let's see. So okay, we got an idea of what a more measure focus would look like. Is it ask oriented? Is the question open-ended or is it a yes no multiple choice question? >> Openended. >> Open. Okay. So, we meet that one. Is it results focused? >> Does the question focus on understanding data rather than sharing opinions? >> Yes. And then is it time bound? Does the question focus on current performance or future performance? >> It asked both. >> Yeah. So, the only thing we were really missing was the the measure focus. probably just a little bit more. That way, anybody sees this question, they know exactly which one it is. And of course, you're right, you only had one progress monitoring report. Um, but to write those out

265because you're going to catalog these. You're going to keep track of them. You're going to want to replay the tape on yourselves at least probably twice a year. You know, how are we doing? Are my questions matching up to what I'm trying to figure out? In other words, like next year when you do this as a team, you can look back at your questions and that shouldn't if that happens again, you should have a really good idea of how that happened. Your your questions and then the responses they give you, you stay focused on the overall goal and you're asking questions like you're asking here, you will know by third quarter more likely of and and you see that trend. You see how it you see how it it starts up high and then the

266team works really hard to knock it down. you're going to want to pay way more attention this coming year on that one. The kind of questions you ask are going to be key. >> All right. >> Yeah. I think I would say like >> something along the lines of like Sorry, I'm just looking at it. >> Um >> given that we met interim measure 1.2, 2, but we did not meet interim measure 1.1. Which inputs do you think were most effective in meeting interim measure 1.2? I I I'm trying to like more so frame it in a way that's a lot easier to follow is what I'm trying to say. >> Yeah. >> Because there's a like but not the one that we did not meet. There's a lot of negatives happening there is all

267I'm saying. >> Yeah. You're going to build each other's muscle on this. support each other as a board when you're when you're writing questions. Um, definitely encourage you to do that. Last one. Is this a strategic question, technical or tactical? >> No, y'all did it. This for these two. Sorry, I should have said it's for these. >> Strategic. Okay. Is it measure focused? Yes. >> Yes. Does the question reference specific metrics data? Which ones? >> Fifth and eighth graders math. >> Got it. >> Is it ask oriented? Is it open-ended? >> Yes. >> Versus closed or multiple choice? >> Yes. >> Is it uh results focused? >> Does it focus on understanding data rather than sharing opinions? >> Yes. And is it time bound? Does it focus on current performance or future performance? >> Yes.

268Good job. Got a smart strategic question. What questions do you have? Any any want to break? >> Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I was thinking, but it's okay. I'll think about it more. >> Okay. >> Um, all of this is going to come back to the board self eval and it's going to come back to the soups eval depending on which route you as a board want to take. So, I want to make sure we connect all the pieces, but we okay doing a break >> like a five minute break? >> It's up to you all. >> 10 minute. What do we have left and how long? >> We're just going to do the board self evo. we're going to do and I want to introduce the conversation of how this connects to the soup

269evo. >> Would you guys like to run through it or give yourselves a 10-minute break? >> Okay, let's do a quick five minute break so we can go to the bathroom, come back and then we'll run through the stuff. Okay. I know. All right, my friends. I hope you're not too disappointed. We're I think your agenda said till 3:45. I don't anticipated us going this going that long. Um but I do want to bring this to your attention as a board the board selfie eval. Any idea of when y'all last did it? It was when Sophia was gone one time. >> So, y'all haven't gone through one yet, right? >> They y'all have >> Yeah, they haven't. >> Amy was on the board or November. >> Okay. So your monitoring calendar, you'll see how all

270of this is going to get picked up in the selfie eval because you do have your monitoring calendar in your your folder. Um I will I will I will push you as a team. This is a board self eval. So board this is for you to monitor and keep track yourselves. Um this is not superintendent man's um this this he's not involved in this part. This will be on the board. So, the SOFG manual is up on the screen, but you also have it printed out and it's the long the long spreadsheet looking one. Um, want to want to walk everyone through, especially for those that haven't been able to go through, but I'm going to I'm going to lead this one, Sophia, if that's okay. >> Yes, that's perfect. Thank you. >> And so,

271what we want to do is you we're gonna we always start on the left column, which is the not student outcomes focus. And you'll see that there's a number next to each column. So we cannot move past that column over to the approaching student outcomes focus if we if we can't check the boxes that we've completed that. So for example, we'll just go through it together. Question for you as a board. It says the board is not student outcomes focused if any of the following are true. The board has not adopted goals. Do you all have goals? >> Yes. >> You're good there. Cool. The board has not consistently demonstrated the ability to distinguish between inputs, outputs, and outcomes. Do y'all distinguish between inputs, outputs, and outcomes? >> Yes, you do. Even right now, look

272at that. That question right here. Boom. Inputs. Great job. The board has not hosted opportunities to listen to the vision of the community during the previous 36-month period. Have y'all gone to the community >> in the last 36 months? Yes. >> Yes, you did. So, yay. We get to get out of that row and we get to go to the next one. Now, let's see if we can get 10 points. No items from from the not student outcomes focus column and the board has adopted in collaboration with the superintendent goals. You have right? >> Yes. >> Yay. So we're good there. The board has adopted only smart goals that include a specific measure population starting point ending point starting uh data and ending data. >> Yes. And Nicole, earlier today you caught one on the

273interim, right? Yes. So you made sure that it was smart. Great job. >> Love that. She said, "Hair flip." >> Yeah. The board has adopted no fewer than one and no more than five goals. Fewer goals allow for greater focus. More allow for less. >> Yes. Good. >> Woo. I love all these yeses. >> The superintendent has adopted in collaboration with the board one to three interim goals to progress monitor each goal. And each interim goal is smart. Yes, great job. The status of each interim goal is able to be updated multiple times during each school year. >> Yes. And the board publicly posted the goals for public comment prior to adoption. >> Yes. You adopted it. Before the adoption, you had them up there. So, look at that. You get at least 10 points.

274>> Now, let's see if you get meeting student outcomes focus. The board's goals all pertain to desired student outcomes. >> Yes. In addition to the goal ending points, the board has adopted annual targets, goal ending points for each year leading up to the ending dates. The superintendent has provided interim goal ending points for each year leading up to the ending date. >> Yes, you have. All interim goals pertain to student outputs or student outcomes, not inputs or adult outputs. >> Yes. >> Correct. The board had the board included students, parents, staff, and community members in the goal development process. >> Yes. You went to community. All board goals last from 3 to 5 years. All interim goals last from one to three years. >> Yes. >> Awesome. That's what I got to note. Your team,

275they put in a lot of hours in these interims and they went and checked it along the framework to make sure you're not going to lose any points on this. That's the reason. >> I have a quick question on that. So if for some weird reason we were to have an interim goal for a specific goal that lasted two to three years, that would not be unusual. >> It would not be unusual. >> Okay. Just making sure. >> But you don't want to go past three years because of what you just learned. >> Yeah. >> Some of your inputs and outputs are already needing adjusting. >> Cool stuff. >> Okay. >> And the goals and interim goals will challenge the organization and will require change in adult behaviors. >> Yes. So much so we added

276a guard. >> I think we should get extra points for that. >> My friends, you get 25 points. Okay, let's let's see if you get meeting or mastering student outcomes. >> It's already way better than what we were in October. >> Yes. So, we're winning. >> Lookie lookie. The board used a process that included students, parents. We already said yes to that, right? >> All the second one. All of the interim goals are predictive of their respective goals and are influencable by the superintendent and the superintendent's team. predictive suggests that there is some evidence of a correlation between the interim goal and the goal influenceable suggests that the superintendent and through them the staff has authority over roughly 80% of whatever the interim goals is measuring. >> I would say yes. >> Yeah. I that's

277why I love about what y'all did this morning. your team is demonstrating to you that I don't know that I don't know that I could have said yes to y'all prior to this morning. It was pretty pretty amazing to me. And then the last one, the board relied on a root cause analysis comprehensive student needs assessment andor similar research tool to inform identification and prioritization of the potential goals. >> You did given the fact that her cut scores changed. >> Bam. the and uh Tristan Nicole what what what happened and I think we may have told you but I don't I don't want to assume the staff put the data up around the entire room and everyone walked around and looked at them and that's how they came up with the goals that they let

278the data determine where the focus probably needed to be. >> I kind of want to >> microphone please. >> It's okay. I want to advocate for some bonus points for the board because I don't see students in here anywhere and our board engaged students in this process as well. >> Well, it's under the green one. >> Oh, is it in green? >> Yeah, it's a students community. >> I must have nodded off at that point. I apologize. >> Yeah. No, and I love what the conversation we've had the end in mind. Yeah. This is the way we started when I was bugging you to go hit the community and the two-way communication and you all have not only done that, you've been doing more and you're planning to do even more than that. So, my

279friends, congrats. You you have you are at mastering student outcome or student outcomes focus on vision and goals. You got 35. >> That's already higher than our total score in October. >> Look at that. >> Was 30 for the whole eval. And I think even that we were a little too nice for ourselves. No, we were too nice. We should have >> I was harsher. Jay and I were harsher. >> I don't think we were that nice to ourselves. >> I don't quite understand how we >> turned off money. >> We read through it and I kind >> Okay. We read through it and I just kind of checked things off. I you know this might be for a different session but like how do we >> add the points? Yeah. Like and what are

280the little columns for and am I supposed to write something in them? >> So the way it's going to look and let me show it to you up here on the screens >> in the Yeah. In the SOFG manual, we're going to fill this out uh like this. And so this is the reason why I'm going to encourage you to do these quarterly again. That way each quarter you as a board know how you're progressing. And so you on your calendar it says that you're going to do a self-evaluation again in October >> according to your monitoring calendar. So I know it's only two months away but I'll say please stay on that track because what you have on your monitoring calendar is what you're telling the community they can expect from you. >> So

281this is the document you're going to be filling out. >> You don't go add things from one to the next. If you don't meet stuff, you just stop. You don't go to the next column. >> Okay? >> So, that's the column you're in. If you get there and you stop like and I like, let's say we get to green and one of these we haven't fulfilled. Well, then we're not adding anything from yellow to green. We're just taking what's in the green column and that's our total points for this page minus whatever we're missing. >> It'll it'll happen here in a bit. You'll see. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Wait until we go to a next slide where we do are not meeting everything and I think your answer will be

282your question will be answered within itself. >> But yeah. Okay. So let let let's go through I I want you to visit. No, you know what? Let's just let's do these together. Sorry. Okay. First one. Not student outcomes focus. The board let's Yeah. The board has not adopted goals. >> False. >> No, you have right. So you're good. The board has >> values and goal. >> Yes. Values. >> Yes. Thank you, Nicole, for that. Yes. Values and guardrails. Um, so the board is not student outcomes focused. If any of these are true, the board has not adopted goals. You have, so you're good. The board has not hosted opportunities that listen to the values of the community. You have in the last 36 months. So, we get to move over to the next column, approaching

283student outcomes focus. The board has adopted in collaboration with superintendent guard rails based on the community's values and that do not hinder pursuit of the goals. Each guardrail describes a single operational action or class of actions the superintendent may not use or allow in pursuit of the goals. Do you have guardrails? >> Yes. >> Good job. The board has adopted no fewer than one and no more than five guard rails. >> Yes. >> Correct. You're good. Superintendent has adopted in collaboration with the board one to three interim guard rails. There's the reason why the staff took that fourth one off. They didn't want you to lose points on the selfie eval. because they care a lot about you. >> That's what true collaboration looks like. >> And then the part that Nicole cut again. And

284each interim guard railroad is also smart. >> Yes. >> Yay. The status of each interim guard is able to be up updated multiple times each year. >> Yes. And the board publicly posted the guards for public comment prior to adoption. >> Yes, you did. All right. We got five points there. Now, let's try meeting student outcomes focus. The superintendent has provided interim guard rail ending points for each year leading up to the ending data. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Not sure. >> Oh, >> is our interim our interim guard rails are some of them are different this year from Oh, no. But they have beginning and ending. >> Yeah, they do. May 25. >> All right, we're good. All interim guard rules pertain to outputs or outcomes, not inputs. >> Yes. >> Good. The board

285included students, parent, staff, community in the guard development. Yes. >> You vetted through them. Yes. >> The board has considered adoption of one or more theories of action to drive the school systems overall strategic direction. >> If there is a permanent superintendent, that person was included in the theory consideration process. >> Yes. >> Yeah, we actually did. >> We just did that not too long ago. >> You did. Good. Is is it on your website by any chance? >> The problem. That means that we need to start talking about it more. >> Yeah, >> we did do it and also it's been put in the back burner. So that's something that >> we need to start using more effectively. But yes, we have a action or theory of action. >> We have a theory of

286action. Correct. >> Yes. And superintendent man was the one that worked with it on us. >> Yep. >> You actually >> the study session. >> Yes. Correct. I just wanted to make sure you remembered. We're good. And I know it's on the board. I know it's on our in our board docs. I need to verify that it's also >> Yeah, post on your post under your board page for sure at the minimum. And I would add that to here because your theory of action is like your ultimate northern start. >> It's it's it's what you as a board and superintendent team said this is how we believe if this happens then this will happen. >> Cool stuff. All board guard rails last from three to five years. All interim guard rails last from one to

287three. >> Yes. The guardrails, interim guardrails, and theories of action will challenge the organization and require change in adult behaviors. >> Yes. >> Look at y'all. Y'all get 10 points. Let's see if we get to the mastering student outcomes. The board used the process. We already said yes. All interim guard rails are predictive of their respective guardrails and all that stuff that we said for the goals. Is that a yes? >> Yeah, it is. That's why you had such a great conversation this morning. And in addition to the guard rules on a superintendent's authority, the board has adopted one to five guard rules on its own behavior and evaluates itself against them at least quarterly. >> I would say no to that because we haven't been doing it quarterly. >> Right. >> You do have

288your board self guard rails, >> but this is where you're going to lose you. You you were right there, but now you're going to see the importance of why you as a board got to monitor yourselves quarterly. If you're monitoring him, right, you want to you want to monitor yourselves. Parallel processing, >> you get 10, right? Question. Here's the question I want you to always ask yourselves when you do this. Where do you think you can be at in 3 months? >> And that's what I was going to say is after we see the gaps, we should create a smart goal for us to meet that goal to get us to the next level so we don't lose track of it either. it's going to be useless if we're doing a board self eval and

289we have we're missing one indicator in the mastering and then it just stays in space and the next time we do it again. So pointing back to that that I think we do by here in October, what change in us as a board are we going to do to make sure that we do get those extra five points. >> So you all believe you can be at 15 points in three months because all I mean you're doing the selfie eval right now. >> What I'm going to encourage you to do is put it on the agenda. It's not too late. >> not too late. Put on the agenda to adopt your results that we get today. >> Okay. >> And then then do it again in October. >> We're actually posted the board today. >>

290Oh, you can. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, we we It's an actional item today. >> As smart as >> Come on, Hilda. You're the real MVP. >> All right. Good catch. Thank you. >> Once we're done, >> sweet. So, we got 10 points on that one. >> Hold on a minute. But before we do that, I just want us to clarify. Obviously, for this one, it's easy. That in order to get the extra five points, we have to complete the board self eval in October. That means that we are consistently doing it quarterly. So, that's an easy one, but we should have it written down somewhere. So, it's a reminder of us of what we need to work for to keep continuous improving ourselves based off of this framework as well. Should we create a doc

291sheet for that, too? >> Well, I'm wondering, can't we put it can we put it on the future agenda items so we don't forget? >> That's a good idea. >> Okay, I like that idea. >> Okay, so >> thank you. >> Okay, thank you for that. >> Oh, and look at Hilda. I mean, double do it just in case, but I I think you should. And yeah, >> you want to lead us through this next one? >> Sure. >> The next one is monitoring and accountability. The board has not adopted goals. Okay, we have the board does not have does not schedule each goal to be monitored at least four times per year. We do do that. The board does not schedule each guard rail to be monitored at least once per year. We are

292doing that. The board has not adopted a monitoring calendar. We do have a monitoring calendar. The board does not track its use of time and board authorized public meetings. And unfortunately for monitoring and accountability, we're going to get zero points because we have not been effectively keeping track of our inboard authorized public meetings. Somebody else has, but it's a task that we need to do ourselves. So, I would give ourselves zero points on this. I'm open for rebuttal. I I have I have been coding your meetings for you. Um just had a conversation um with Sophia earlier today about teaching you all how to code your meetings. There's a percentage of time from January to June of how much time you spend on monitoring student outcomes. >> Wow. >> But you said a lot of

293June's inflated. It's a little inflated because I added the guardrails because in Texas we do that, but would love to have a conversation for you here. Um, do you want to keep them separate? >> You still you still had a heck of a lot of minutes though. My personal opinion is that the guardrail minutes should not be included in our student outcomes um monitoring data just because I would like for it to be strictly specific to when we're having the conversations on our goals. That's just my personal belief. Um I don't know how the board feels about it. Open for discussion. Are they counted on the current ones that you did? >> Just just June. >> Last one. >> Just June. >> So you're just to clarify, you're saying that time spent monitoring guard rail

294should not count as our time focused or 50%. >> Yeah. And the only reason why I say that is because the whole structure of the student outcomes focused governance is what kids can and can't do in an education system, right? A guardrail is basically the values and that is a responsibility that we have as governing elected members to carry the values of our community. But that does not play out even though it helps us maintain our goals, it doesn't really whether we had guardrails or not, we would still be working on our goals if that makes sense. So I that's why I don't think it should be included because whether we had them or not, we would still be focusing on our outcomes. What about meetings we've had where there have been no progress monitoring

295reports for goals and it's only for guardrails. We're just setting ourselves up for zero. >> You shouldn't have any meetings without any student outcomes. >> No, we've we've had it to where we're doing progress monitoring for guard rails, but there hasn't been one for goals at that meeting. So then we'd be at zero no matter what. We can't do anything. >> That's what I was that's what I was kind of thinking. That's why I asked again that question. >> But we're also moving to one board meeting a month. So, we're probably not going to run into that issue. And I think that's what the discrepancy was because the framework is meant to be at a one meeting a month, but we had two and we eventually transition to the one month and this is the

296first year that we're going to do the one board meeting. Yeah, if that makes sense. >> I don't know. I see the guard rails are part of the whole framework of SOFG and um and I think you know if we're without the guard roles then we're not doing SOFG. I feel like part of it and I think you know it I think it does play into part of the outcomes because if we're not you know hiring retaining giving proper prof professional development to teachers as per our guard rails then we're not that's part of that that's not >> I agree with you when I first saw our time report before that June one I wanted to meet with Sinto because I was like um this is dumb why don't we count the guard rails. Um,

297but I think after sitting here today, I would say I would be willing to do it in the future, if we can show that we can get better at asking questions and spending more time on this for now, but for where we're at right now, I'd still like to see that we're going to get better at asking questions about the goals because I think that that's where our our area for growth is as a board. And so, I think that we need to really focus in on that before we start inflating our numbers. >> Yeah. And so you you'll see January, you'll see how you had what 60 minutes on monitoring student outcome goals and you had 48 minutes on monitoring the guardrail, right? And so then your overall percentage after you had all your

298other items, uh you were at 41%. Right? And and I would say that June you you were over 50%. that I do know, you know, even without because you did do you had a really robust conversation about goals and guard rails, but you definitely spent way more time on your goals. >> And one thing that I'm going to add on just to that, there's a portion in the book that talks about failure to focus on outcomes. And I think um this alludes to why guard rails are important and they carry the institution's why, but not necessarily on what's working for kids or not. That's those are the values. And it says a failure of focus is the school boards often operate in a manner that doesn't even attempt to make outcomes the focus, let alone

299student outcomes. Most governing bodies have a dominant focus on overriding emphasis that defines the body's why for existing. The why drives many other elements for how the governing board functions from the way members are selected to daily decision making. So based off of that, it's yes, it's our why and it's the values of our community and they drive our outcomes, but within our student outcome goals, we are noticing what added on professional development or what inputs are are outputs are needed to get to that goal. So, they're both very important, but I do agree that maybe in the future once we get a little bit more aligned on sticking to the student outcomes times. I maybe I'll be willing to count it, but for right now, I I I don't think we should. >> I

300want to tell you that this line I like to describe it to boards as if it's like the pulse of your boardroom. It's the heartbeat of your boardroom. And you know, we talked about February when we did mindset I think in March and you all had some reflection on that. Um, but those numbers have June what you all did in here is is an excellent example of what a disciplined and unapologetically student outcomes focused board looks like. Um, and and this is just for you to be able to self-reflect as a board. um as to you know where do we want to be and where we're at is that where we want to be and I know that when I had a conversation with y'all about that 28% I think the consensus was that's not

301where we want to be and and again the grace I want you to have with yourselves is that you're learning how to do progress monitoring just today everyone was able to to unpack technical tactical and strategic most board members don't know how to ask the right questions at board meetings it's it's it's a difficult it can be it can be challenging and you all are going to work on building that muscle together. That's going to keep that I think that's going to stay up if you internalize the work and everything that we've been talking about, but that's up to you. And that's what the self eval is going to help you stay on the same page um as you're moving forward. And then oh, one more staff has got giving you the updated uh progress

302margin count. Y'all are going to be adopting. You will notice every month you're you're going to have something with academic achievement. So you are you are showing that you're keeping the main thing the main thing to your community. >> All right, let's go back to So then what did you get on that one? Zero >> Zero. And the only thing that I would ask for us to do is what are we going to do differently to get into 10? >> Yeah, go ahead. >> I had written down to do a quarterly time tracking checkin if we're going to be doing this ourselves, right? Mhm. >> Do you want to do it every month or do you want to do it quarterly? >> Well, well, we have to track every board. >> No, I mean, but

303to like visit it because the whole thing is the board does not I think to in order to continue to make sure we're doing it, we need to take a look at it every now and then. >> Couldn't it be just included in a board update? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Like within Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So, to be clear, this is us tracking our time within our meetings. And I mean, that could be as simple as like once we're done with that part of the agenda, write down what time it is between I don't know if it needs to call for a full-on another meeting to rewatch the videos. >> Oh, no. >> No, it's going to happen while we're in the meeting. >> Yeah. Okay. and that Excel spreadsheet tells tells you

304what you're looking for. >> Okay? >> And then your minutes, like when you're in executive session, those minutes don't count against you. So, it's really just like when you're when you're doing consent, when you're doing action items, when you're doing discussion, again, the discipline of you all that y'all have gotten to is you've minimized a lot of the other the potential whirlwinds that could distract the board. You have you as a team have done a great job of minimizing that. >> Yeah. And I was just going to say and this is an example of that because if we had created an agenda item to talk about our minutes, we wouldn't be talking about our go our goals. >> So by by that process of this conversation where we're like, hey, let's put it in the

305board update. >> That's where those more clerical things live. just just like the same reason that I've been difficult, some of our staff have been difficult about whether something lives in um consent or whether you know it's a 45minute presentation. We try to give the information in the board update and have it in consent and field whatever questions there are before the meeting so that way we're preserving the time in the meeting for the goal conversations if that makes sense. So we just I think that's the hard one even for me for discipline because I'm often tempted to say oh let's you know this will be fun let's spend 25 minutes doing this right but then the next time we do mindset work then I have to sit there and go well a time in

306the last 6 months was when I let this group come in and do a 25m minute presentation when we should have been working on on our goal progress monitoring. So, >> um, before we move on, I just want to make sure that we did we meet the the the second I know we've met the last one, but the second to last one, have we met it? And if not, do we need to put that on something? So, the board has not consistently demonstrated the ability to distinguish between customer service issues and owner service issues. >> I I think we still need clarity around that. >> Okay. I don't think that's something that we can all effectively say that we've made the difference. >> But we do know we've met the last one. School system has

307not achieved any of its interimm goals. So we know that that's fine. So what can we do to meet the second to last one? >> We would probably I my suggestion would be to and I would hate to say to include it in another study session, but when we have an an opportunity to do our two-way communication study session, we should include the customer service again. um especially since we have new board members and a refresher for everybody. So I would put it in the next study session >> that's about a 30 minute conversation. It's not it's not a a really long one >> and then we can share some videos too that I know that Dr. Ramos has for us and um I'll make sure those get sent out to all of us and

308then if we have any follow-up questions we can go from there. >> So you'll notice as you go through this one it ends up going into what percentage of time you spent on student outcomes. Uh but my question is where do you think you can be at in in two months in October? >> Oh, with the the >> 50 you will be at 50% by October. >> No, no, I'm sorry. Not on that. I mean like on the approaching >> meeting or mastering where do you think you could be at in two months? >> Meeting? >> Yeah, meeting. I would say meeting too. >> Meeting >> by October. All right. >> Yes. >> so I h having skipped ahead to column three, the meeting, I noticed that no more than two goals are monitored per

309month as one of the criteria. >> Yep. >> And as I'm looking at our monitoring calendar, >> um, one I'm noticing that in the month of June we have our final >> well also in August. >> Yeah, August I think is really not one of the four quarterlies. I think that's just the reviewing the prior year's results. So I don't know how that counts. >> So could we put it on the agenda for Tuesday's board meeting to maybe um amend this monitoring calendar so we could be in the meeting? Well, I guess my question is I would like to cheat on this one and I have a reason why. So, Dr. Ramos once said as >> remember parallel processing, Mr. Man. >> Well, I'm also okay to some degree depending on the type of cheating

310that you know. So, but um so Dr. Ramos once asked me um do you have a board meeting every month? And the answer was no, we don't. And he and so he said, "Well, what month do you not care about student outcomes?" And I said, "Well, that would be July." So, because we don't have a meeting in July, but we did intentionally because we don't have a meeting in July, put two meetings in June. So, my cheat would be can the second meeting in June be considered in July? Because the problem we have in July is getting core. >> I would say no. Okay. I would say yes. >> So because because because if not then the only way to fix this progress monitoring calendar is to move our second June meeting to July and

311for me I prefer that I have heartburn already and last time I think I was vocal about that. I don't like that we don't have a board meeting in one month. >> My question is is why is this a requirement to begin with? It's it's what happened in June. The the amount of time that y'all spent. Do you remember roughly how many hours it was >> total from both meetings? >> Three hours. >> Total was about five. >> Five. Yeah. >> Yeah. One was three, the other one was two plus. So you spent five hours in one month. I mean it's let me say this. This is a framework. >> Yeah. >> When I say framework, it's adjusted to your needs as as a team. there. So, this is an area that you all want

312to figure out and you want to deviate from it. As long as you're clear as to why, but it's designed so that the board doesn't get overwhelmed in one month with too much data. That's the reason for it. And particularly at a board meeting is really the main focus. Don't want you to get don't want you feeling like you're getting a data dump. That doesn't feel good and you're not going to be able to monitor progress too well. What do we learn also just right now, Jay? you said this earlier or some of the data that's in this packet probably should have come later, right? So now that we're coming to these realizations, then maybe those data points if they're still relevant would come back come at a later at a later time versus in

313June. But that's the reason why you want to be very precise and very exact with your data and you want the board to be able to to unpack it, understand it, and then be able to turn around and go explain to the community. If you're able to do that, that's all that matters. So July mean or not, that's up to you for conversation. >> Where is this at again? Sorry. In the green column. >> It's the green column. It's the third cell down. I Oh, no. It's second cell down. You're right. No more than two goals are monitored per month. >> When you're saying to adjust this to your team has need to adjust what? this rubric >> I'm sending no >> like adjust no more than no more than two goals are are monitored

314per meeting except for in June when we monitor all four of them because it's the end of the year >> or something is that >> two per meeting >> wait so you are saying altering the tool >> rubric >> sorry >> you are saying altering the rubric >> I'm saying if you can't get past that July scenario and that's what you end in June. >> You need a July. >> Yeah. >> No, that's not what I'm saying. >> And and I and I need to correct the record. Hilda has told me that I am wrong and that we actually only have one board meeting in June. I thought we had >> Yeah. The the main purpose is to not have the feeling of a data dump of all of more than two goals. >> Yeah.

315>> Sense. I mean you're you're realizing to take a deep dive to ask a strategic question and then to get the understanding like that's real progress monitoring like it's going to be time intensive. >> Okay. Sounds like >> five of these strategic questions. >> That would be 10. >> Yep. Good deal. Okay. Communication and collaboration. Who wants to lead us through that? Another board member. >> Mr. Jones, would you lead us in that please? >> So, the board has Okay. The board has not adopted goals, >> which we have. We have the board did not receive the final version of materials to be voted on at least three calendar days before the board authorized public meeting during which the materials would be considered. Well, we did receive the final version three days before and every

316>> every meeting I've participated in. Uh there were more than six board authorized public meetings in a single month during the previous 12 month period. Board committees are counted in this total more than six board authorized. >> There are boards who have more than six a month. >> They must like each other a lot less. >> Wait, so if we had more than that then we don't meet. >> Correct. >> Okay. So we're okay. >> Yes. Yes. We're way under. >> No, you're good. >> We're way under. >> It includes the committee, >> but we never they only ever meet twice a month for that for the most part anyway. >> I would hope not. >> There are some district institutions that have like 10 running committees at once. That's what Dr. Ramos is talking

317about. >> Any meeting of the board lasted more than eight hours during the previous 12-month period? >> Thank god we're in the safe zone on that one. The board does not use a consent agenda. >> False. >> The board has not hosted opportunities to listen to the vision and values of the community during the previous 36month period. We have >> Yeah. In the last 36. Yeah. So approaching all consent eligible items were placed on the consent agenda and all but a few were voted on using a consent agenda. I would say true. The board tracks its use of time in board authorized public meetings categorizing every minute used as one of the following >> zero. goal setting, goal monitoring, guardrail settings, guardrail monitoring and leadership evaluation, voting, community engagement other >> we are not doing

318this >> I don't think we are tracked that would go back to the other one >> I I have a wondering on the community engagement we're supposed to be tracking the times the time spent on our two-way communication as well >> and even like this meeting, you're going to notice it's in there. >> Interesting. I didn't know that. >> Even even your workshops, they're they're in here. You see that community-led trainings, uh board training, which is what we're doing today, uh board time use evaluation, even the board self eval. This these minutes we're spending right now on doing the self eval. These are going to be coded as well. >> Okay, got it. >> So, we can include that in the board update then just like we had discussed. Okay. And then as far as

319trying to get to the green in however much time, I think we're good on number one because we've moved to one meeting a month now. So with our committee meetings, it should still come out under four. >> Okay. And then I think we need to work on number two. In on I feel like some meetings we've had more than five, but in some we definitely haven't. So maybe just keeping an eye on that. >> What do they mean for topics of discussion? What does that mean? aren't on consent. >> Okay. >> No, I don't think we >> Now, if it gets pulled from consent, is that considered a non >> Yeah. >> So, like pulled from consent or it's not part of student outcomes and it's not part of consent. It's like all that that's

320at the bottom of the agenda. >> It's it's designed it's designed so that you don't distract yourselves with too many other items. It's not saying you don't have any because you still have the other 50% of your board meeting. I heard it. you have you still have the other 50% of your board meeting to focus on other things, budget, u whatever whatever is board business, you still got the other 50%. >> Okay? >> But you you you can easily dip into your 50% of student outcomes if you have too many adultoriented topics and if you don't spread those out. >> So we're at zero and where do you think you can be at in two months? policy >> in two months. I think we're just going to still be approaching because I think we still

321have um work to do >> on the green. >> Okay. So, we think we can get to one point. Got it. >> Great job. Last one. Who wants to lead us through the final one or two more? Sorry. Unity and trust. Who's going to walk us through unity and trust? By the way, these won't take that long moving forward because >> your board officers are going to ask you or I'm gonna ask Sophia's going to be asking you all to to she's going to give you where you were last quarter and then she's going to ask you if if we've move if you've moved any any further along. >> Is there one we're missing because we only got unity and trust. >> There's two on that. >> Oh, okay. Continuous improvement. Okay. >> You caught

322me off guard, too. >> Small. >> So, who will walk us through unity and trust? Miss Ays, >> the board has not adopted goals. We have the board has not adopted policies that establish board operating procedures. We have >> Have we not? >> I board maybe not, but there's something in there. >> I don't I think our board operating procedures still live within some of our policy. So I would say no because point of the policy diet is for us to get anything that lives in operations whether it's business or governing board um operating procedures should not be intertwined with policy if that makes sense. So I think this is something that we do need to work on. >> And what exactly is the breadth of this in terms of board operating procedures? How we

323run the meetings? Yeah, your board operating procedures should have everything like from elections and selection of officers. Oh, that's all like Yeah. So, your board operating procedures ends up being like a little condensed version of your board policy. That's every new board member. That's one of the first things you should receive when you're first elected. The board operating proced how how do you how do you put something on the agenda? How do you take something off the agenda? Like all of those little details and nuances are in your board operating procedures. B. >> So, do you all have one? >> No. Is that something that we would need to like meet together to establish together? Okay. >> Yes. So, one of your neighboring districts is doing the same work as you that this is what

324they're doing today. >> Okay. >> They're they're doing their policy diet. >> And I think just to Oh, yeah. You got it down. For the next future agenda item, it would just be a board operating procedures probably study session at some point and we can have a fluid conversation of that and what lives in policy needs to be taken out and all that fun stuff. >> I don't Okay, let's see. >> So, we we stopped there, right? >> Yep. >> And where do you think you can be at in two months? >> I think we're still going to be here. >> Yeah, me too. I think we we'll be still in not student outcomes focused. I think it's going to take us a good six months to try to get to approaching. >> I think

325we're good on the other two if we can get us out of that second one. >> Yeah. But there's some stuff in approaching that we still have to >> Yeah. Um board member board has adopt a policy of the requiring that information provided by the superintendent to board is provided all board. We need that. Um attendance at all regularly scheduled board meetings with over 80%. I think we're usually good at that, right? >> Yes. >> Board reviews all policies governing board operating procedures at least once during every length of time equal to so like during four every four years. Sorry, there's a lot of words there. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Per term. >> So we don't do that. Adopted an ethics and conflict interest statement board and all bonus. So we have not adopted

326our own. We'd use the one at the state level which is pretty scant. >> You've got one and then if you want to if you want to do a better one >> regardless it's our choice to go through the standard. So I I would say we cleared that. >> Have we adopted that or is it just the one we're required to file by law? It's not something we've ever voted on or adopted. >> Required to follow up by law. >> Yeah. I don't think we've ever adopted. >> You actually have voted on it and you actually did adopt it I think last board meeting. When did we adopt was maybe the one before because you you adopted a full policy manual and included in that policy manual is um the state required um conflict of

327interest. >> Okay. >> It may have been yeah two board meetings ago >> their roles only to advise the board >> and and to be honest um there are also board operating procedures in there. So it depends Dr. Ramos is the expert but you did adopt policies. are part of policies. We don't they're saying they shouldn't be in policy. >> It says the board has >> not adopted policies, >> right? But you have adopted there are policies. >> We want them out of policy. Th this is the one where this is the one that's connected to the policy diet because you're going to want to identify the policies that by law you can't remove anyway, but then those that you can are the ones you're going to explore and look at and look at your

328goals, guardrails, and theory of action and say, does this align with what we >> So, we have adopted policies, meaning we didn't meet that. >> But it says that you have not is how you don't need it. >> No, no, no. >> Has not adopted policies that >> Yeah. So we have adopted policies meaning we ha so we we have adopted you meet it by not adopting policies but we have adopted policies. >> No no no no because because those all the ones in the first column are reversed. So if you look at if you look at the first one the board has not adopted goals. So if what you're saying is true >> is part of the policy diet too when we want the operating procedures out of the policy. Oh. Uh, no. Board

329operating procedures is separate, but it makes it easier after you've gone to a policy diet because then it'll when you get your operating procedures manual, it'll be with the updated board policy manual. >> So then maybe we haven't. That's how I So then we have met it. I'm That's why I said we hadn't met it because I was like, "No, it's in policy." So we haven't met it. So I think we got confused there. >> Yeah, we have met it. You're right. I see what you're saying now. The board has not adopted policies. We have board adopted board policies that have board operating procedures because it's the standard statute stuff that they make us. Yeah. >> Correct. >> Right. Yeah. We still we still get zero points. But I just want I just wanted you

330to have clarity >> that that was okay. >> And then so we do need to look at number. Okay. Okay. So, if we're looking at column the yellow column two and three we need to work on. And then the very last one just to clarify there all board members agree that if the board has committees their role is only to advise the board not to advise the staff. So you're saying the their there is the committee. The committee's role is only to advise the board not the staff. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I just want to make sure I understood that. >> Yeah. I think we actually then if we're if we have not only >> if the only thing in approaching student outcomes focused to get that one full point is the board has adopted

331a policy or procedure requiring that information provided by superintendent to one board members provided to all board members that's being done in practice but it's not a policy or a procedure yet then I do believe that we could be at meetings I mean at approaching student outcomes by 3 months Okay. >> So that changes. >> I don't I don't know if we could do it by three months because we have to review all policies, governing board, operating procedures at least once during every four years and we have not done that. >> Oh, I see. >> No, but they have to read. >> But we didn't look at them. Yeah. I was like, we do nothing with >> I went six year. Oh, >> yeah. >> Sorry. >> Wait, it says but we did. You're I

332think Jay's right. The board reviews all polic Well, I mean, >> we didn't review anything. >> Yeah, >> we adopted it. Which one of you read the whole trust thing? Tell me now because I didn't and I'm a lawyer. >> Yeah. No, I'm talking about the board members. It says the board. >> You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. >> This is the reason why again your one of your neighboring districts is doing it as an entire team. That's what they're spending today on. >> Which one? >> Uh Roosevelt. Yeah, they are. Yeah, they they are taking a deep dive. All right. So, last one. who will walk us through continuous improvement. >> I'll do it. >> All righty. >> So, here we go. The board has not adopted goals. The board has not

333conducted a self-evaluation during the previous 12-month period. Bing bing. We move on. Right. Oh, is there more? Oh, hold on. I got to turn the page. The board has conducted a self-evaluation during the previous 12-month period, but did not vote to adopt the results. >> We did vote. >> You voted. >> It hasn't been It hasn't been >> October. >> It hasn't been more than 12 months. >> Okay. >> Cool. The the board has not participated in a governance team training or retreat where all members of the governance team were present during the previous 12 month period. >> We meant that. >> Okay, cool. Here we go. Moving on. The board tracks its use of time and reports monthly. The person No, we don't. Um, >> well, we can try to Okay. What else? >>

334Should I continue reading or >> go ahead? >> Uh, and tracks use of its time and reports monthly the percentage of board authorized public meeting time invested in monitoring the board's goals and interim goals. Um, the board tracks the average annual cost of staff time. Oh jeez. Invested in governance during its annual self-evaluation. This includes the time of any staff members invested in preparing for attending and debriefing other meetings. This includes all author that's that's a lot. >> Yeah. >> This includes all board authorized public meetings as well as closed sessions and all hearings. So, this one is going to help you. Uh, Superintendent Jay, man, it's time that you and your team now lay about a 12-month average of what you anticipate or what you estimate is the average cost to produce a board

335meeting and also to go chase down individual board member requests. And that means that you're going to also be as far as that goes, any requests that you've gotten in the last 12 months, even down if it's to the teacher, to the person on the campus, to time spent, uh it'll be real tedious, but it's very necessary so that the board can become self-aware of where where you may you as a board, I don't know truly where you're at, but it's just for you to become self-aware of where you may unintentionally be sending staff down uh some rabbit rabbit holes that you know maybe not aware and putting a dollar amount to it is a is a good starting point for you as a team to become aware of what what what unintended repercussions there

336may be if you're distracting a superintendent in a team from doing what you've asked them to do. >> Um the notices of quorum don't impact this, right? So like we're having a community event and we all happen to be there. That's not going to be counted as a public meeting. All right, great. Number two, I would assume then you also need to do this for our committee. And I would say it would be great to share that information with the committee as well about how much it's costing per meeting for the committee. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a lot more than the committee. It's it's like um Lissa's team, all the time that they put into preparing the No, I'm talking about not only are we going to do this for board meetings, this also

337includes everything that goes into running our student conduct. >> Oh, it has to because the student the student that committee is a >> committed. So all of those staff members time not only in the meeting but in preparing for the meeting. >> But what I was asking is when that gets prepared, I would like to see specifically for the committee amount to be shared with the committee as well so that we're aware as the committee how much is going into those meetings. >> Yeah. If we're going to begin tracking this, we're going to have to start with having a conversation with them because it's going to require each team member to track their time. Yeah. So, okay. And then we can certainly once that's all collected, we can bring the total. >> Not saying that

338we're wasting time in there or anything. I don't think we >> I was I didn't take it that way. I'm just I'm um I'm pushing down my adult convenience because one of the things that takes a lot of time is tracking how much time you're spending doing things. So, it's something that I've always resisted, but it's clearly important. >> That's why I work for the government, >> a law firm. >> Yeah, it it it really is for the self-awareness of the team. Um it's we have I have seen boards that make very very drastic shifts in a good way to narrowing their time and what what what the board spends their time on when they become self-aware that maybe there was some not some but in a lot of cases there was a lot of

339unintended consequences in narrow down to one board meeting highly effective board meetings everyone's disciplined and then to get to getting them to about two two and a half hours and you're getting things done in a month very much so possible. Uh but it takes self-awareness from the board. Um yeah, that's what this one's going to do. >> The second to last one I um think we can do very easily. The board has provided time during regularly scheduled board authorized public meetings to recognize the accomplishments of its student staff regarding progress toward goals and interim goals. So, there's quite a few people I actually um grew up with who work in a couple of the other districts who are staff who've been recognized and I see I'm like, "Oh, okay." So, like either they work in

340Roseel or Phoenix and they're getting like recognized at their district's board meeting for their help in achieving goals. I think that's easy to see how to do it with staff. I'm just curious how that's being done with students, too. >> They're they're doing it along uh the student outcome goals. Uh, and so in Dodto, I've shared Dotto board meetings with you. Every month they are recogn it's it's usually aligned to the goal that they're monitoring that month. >> Okay? >> And so if it's third grade literacy, guess what? They're recognizing third graders that are doing great work with literacy. They're recognizing the parents, the teachers, um, and and you can mix it up. I mean, the other districts, like you mentioned, they've they've been kind of experimenting with it a little bit, but they're having

341a heck of a lot of fun doing that. >> Okay. But you can do it however you want as long as you recognize and just think about what you're spending time in recognitions when you do and are you elevating what you have behind you? Um and if you're not then there's opportunities for growth. >> Does that time count against us? >> No, it will count for you. >> Okay. >> It will count for you. >> It's part of student outcome. >> Yeah. I just didn't know. >> Yeah. Because you know you do what I would recommend is is you put your governance you know call call it progress and accountability call it monitoring whatever you want to call it but under there >> first one you probably want to do is the recognitions and then

342right the next bullet point right after that is progress monitoring on the goals >> and then the one right after that is progress monitoring on the guardrail. >> All of them are tight and connected and everyone's everyone's speaking the same language like man this board don't play like they're organized they know what they're doing. Yeah, and that's one of the things I'm I'm glad it's in here because that's something that we've talked anyways is at the point that we really got our goals and everything before you guys came on the board was how are we going to start recognizing students that are actually moving the needle and not only that but the administrators or teachers who are helping those students gain and those are the ones that are going to get recognized here at the

343board versus the typical honor role. Not that that doesn't matter and exist, but I believe that exists in the schools for them to be recognized. This is more of our goals and who we are giving awards to. >> And it wasn't as specific, but the board did recognize that the welcome back rally, the two schools that had the greatest gains in this arena. So, >> yeah, this is a chance for you to also celebrate the growth during the school year. Um and then uh the same district we just talked about at their convocation. They recognized teachers that had done tremendous work towards the goals campuses. Uh it was in their theme for their convocation was I am the genesis and everyone was wearing a t-shirt that had that. Um that's what this looks like when

344you're going through the self eval. You're like oh you know what we got some areas that we could probably get better at. I'm hoping that that's what's coming up for you right now. Last question. Where do you think you can be at in two months? >> Yeah. approaching >> approaching. What's the number on that one? Sorry. One. Okay. No. Hey, so my my personal goal, this is just me. I'd like to get you as close to 100 by the end of the school year. Uh and and that will be completely up to you on how how much work you're willing to put in to get to that point. Just know that once you what we believe and what we believe to be true and especially in Texas, we have a lot of evidence of it

345that boards that get to that 80 90 point range. They are disciplined. They are unapologetic about the work they do. They tend to not have contested schoolboard races and they got a lot of parent engagement support. Um, a lot of community communication, a lot less complaints at public comment. I mean, following this with everything that's based on research, we get you there. I'm I'm not going to say if. I'm going to say when we get you there or when you get yourselves there. Uh it's going to be very very evident to anybody and everybody who's anywhere near you. >> What's a district that you know off your head that's in the 90s? >> Yeah, Dotto. and they were all over the news in the Dallas area because they had major gains this year and they

346have been historically beat up for they were taken over by the state. Uh but my goodness they their two-way communication, their town halls, every board member shares responsibilities. They're all learning how to code their board meetings. Like it is a high performing team. And when you see them arguing, they're arguing about inputs and outputs and outcomes in a good way. Like they're pushing each other. Uh yeah, that's that's one really good example. All right, last one. And I know we got to push. I didn't think we'd go this long, but hey, again, next time you will all be able to come in already with your own assessment and you'll have the conversation here. Shouldn't take you more than 10 15 minutes because now you all have a baseline, but wanted to make sure that Nicole

347and Tristan, you had an opportunity to see and hopefully you find value in seeing the the rubric. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. All right. Any other questions or anything on this? If not, I move the governing board approve the Kraton School District's self-eal board self- evaluation of August 16, 2025 with 30 45 points with 45 points as of today's date. >> Is that a one? >> Oh, okay. >> May I have a second? >> Second. Uh, all those in favor? >> I I >> I Any hearing? None. Motion passes. >> All right, last item. Uh, this is a really important one. So, want to create a space for you to have some real conversation with each other is around how SOFG aligns with um a recommended um superintendent evaluation. in your packets. I

348believe you all have a document that looks like this. And so, um, I'm actually gonna hand it over to Jay here in a bit so so he can walk you through. You'll notice that it's advantageous to everybody that he have at least three interims per goal and per guard row because you'll see here at the very top it's going to tell you what we consider as meeting and not meeting. And at least twothirds of the goals are met is considered met standard. And at least half of the guardrails are met standard. And so the more interims he has and the more that he meets uh the better for everyone, but also for the understanding of you and the community. What is unfortunately happening from time to time is what happened here with you. If if

3491.2 2 was met and 1.1 was not and this went up instead of going down. Um I want you all to be overprepared and especially superintendent J man that these if these are all green and this is red what do you think that means? If the interims are all green and they meet them but this number doesn't get better what does that mean? He doesn't need it on his >> It's not predictive. >> Are not >> That's right. >> They live out in space somewhere with their actual results. >> Yep. And so your team again based on what they told you this morning, um they they are banking that if these are green, this will be better and this will be green, right? So you you want to monitor during the school year so that

350if these are green, but this isn't if they're telling you the overall goal that it's not getting better, something's off over here. Don't wait till the end of the school year to start asking questions. By halftime, you definitely want to be asking the questions. So, what's going on? If these aren't predictive, these aren't correlating. And so, that's why this is important, too. It is also possible that they don't get these green, but this does, then that means that they're doing some things really, really well with the overall goal, and they're just fine-tuning their interims. But the main one that you want to focus overall throughout the year is going to be the overall goal. Do not take your eye off the overall goal. It has happened in other districts this year that these were all

351green, these were all red. What do you think happened to that leadership after two to three years? >> Yeah. So, want to really make sure that you're understanding how the superintendent evaluation was designed. the more metrics he has, the better opportunity for him to be able to learn and grow and measure. But you as a board want to stay focused on that overall one. You want to speak to you? >> Yeah. >> So, um, we took the template, the student outcomes focus governance manual template and plugged in the data. So, um, if we look at Arizona state law, um, typically the superintendent's evaluation is handled in an executive session unless the superintendent requests that it be handled in public. The problem I have with that is if we're if we choose to use this evaluation,

352there's no reason for it to be in an executive session cuz anyone who's playing the home game and keeping score at home could fill this sheet out themselves, right? cuz we're doing progress monitoring four times a year and we're reporting on where we're at with these different measures and so, you know, it's there's no reason to keep it a secret cuz it's public anyway. Um, and Dr. Ramos and I had a a conversation during the break, never done this before, so took a swag at it. And I think we may have assigned the points incorrectly cuz what we were trying to also do if you look at the back there's um sort of a points calculation in order to be able to figure out because um the way we've handled it in the past in

353Kraton is that the superintendence um pay for performance is receives a percentage of that dollar amount based on u the points scored on the evaluation. So, um, in coming up with a way to do the points, I heavily weighted the goals and put the weight on the guard rails very low. Um, but in talking with Dr. Ramos, the the the intent of the instrument is for all of the goals and guard rails to be weighted equally. So, if so, it's it's up to what the board wants. I mean ultimately this is your evaluation for me and there is time for us to adjust that you know prior to an upcoming meeting. Um so if you if if you give me guidance to go ahead and make that shift that to be balanced then we can

354shift it to be balanced. So the piece I forgot to ask Dr. Ramos is my understanding was also that the points are based on the interims not on the goals themselves. Um, and I thought we had a conversation last year and that's what I understood, but you may need to correct me on that. Perhaps the goals do factor in. >> Yep. I'm looking for it on here because the one in Texas will explicitly say if you met the goal, then the interims are not as important because the main focus is the goal. >> Gotcha. >> Is it on here? Otherwise the board was about oh >> a goal or guardrails performance is met if the actual ending point the desired ending point uh which which would be the goal. >> Yeah. >> Or at least

355twothirds of the interim goals or guard rails are actual ending points their respective >> desired ending point. So yeah there it is right there. >> Okay. So, so we did it correctly then because if you look at um if you look at goal one, it's marked as did not meet standard because um >> is your >> because the goal the goal did was not met. And in addition to that, if you were to look at the interim measures, one was met and one wasn't met, which is 50% were met. And the measure the measure mark is 66% or greater. So that one did not reach 66% or greater. So it was marked as did not meet standard. If we look at goal two in this case we met the annual target and we met both

356of the interim measures. So this one is marked as met standard. >> That one I would be I would be sharing this story if you're not already. >> I know that's what I told um Mr. Man. And I'm like, where's our comms and marketing all over this? >> This is huge, y'all. What what what he just shared with y'all. This is huge. >> Not everyone has been able to do this. Sorry. >> Look at goal three. >> You're just talking about doing that, meeting the goal. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Sorry. >> It's not it you meet the if you meet the annual target, that's a big W for everybody. >> Yeah. >> And the interims don't become as relevant. But if you didn't meet it, as you're learning here, your interims have got to mean

357something. >> Yeah. >> Meeting all three, you're saying is the big deal. >> And well, yeah, but even just meeting the annual target that there was positive shift in the numbers that this that's huge. Not everyone saw gains y this year. >> So if we look at goal three, similar place with that. We met we met the annual target. We also met both of the interim measures. So that one is also marked as met standard. if we go to so this is where it gets weird and ugly and this is where Dr. Ramos was talking to us about the importance of the alignment and I um I struggle with guilt as many of you know um with with this one according to the way the system works we did not meet the annual target but

358we met all three of the interim measures so it's marked as met standard even though the annual target was not met but as the reason I have guilt over it as Dr. Pombo shared with you um you know when we looked at this it was one of the things that triggered us to go back and check our correlations right so but to the best of our skill set and knowledge for last year we recommended these interim measures and those are the interim measures we worked on >> that part is huge my friends the the year that they spent in really digging deep into this the learning that they have that they they brought brought you updated and changed interims for that very reason right there. So, I've said this to the board and I I'll

359keep saying it. First several years, you want to have grace with the leadership team because they're learning a new system. They're adjusting. They're pivoting as are you. You just saw yourself eval, right? Like if you let up off the gas, put on yourselves, you'll also go that way. So, you're modeling what you're expecting them to do. So, this year, I'm I have no doubt. And I heard you say at the board meeting several times, the flywheel effect is coming. Y >> that's what they're anticipating. >> Y um for guard So shifting into the guard rails for guardrail one. The um there were two interim measures. Again, this is a why you don't have two interim measures, but we weren't as aware of that last year and we and we did adopt two. And so we've

360we missed one of the interim measures by an entire point and then we um uh were successful in the other interim measure. And so in this case, this one also did not meet standard um for for apparently I can't flip pages and talk at the same time. For guardrail 2, we met both of the interim measures and so that one met standard. For guardrail three, we met both of the interim measures and so that one met standard. And for guardrail 4, we met both of the interim measures and so that one met standard. Now, one of the things I recognized, you'll notice the way I assign points was not accurate. Um, because of the 66% system, these need to be adjusted. So, that way for each of those groupings, it's either an all or nothing.

361Like I was doing um based on the number of guard rails that were that were met. And so, I I can correct that now that it's understood better. And then the really the two questions for the governing board if you look at the back sheet are that the goal and guardrail interim measures currently are weighted towards the goals but that can be recalculated for it to be equally weighted across all um and then the other question is the way that we did the percentages we really literally connected it to percentages. So like if you look the only way to get 100% is to get 100%. Um for 90 to 99 it's 90%, 80 to 89 it's 80%. And if you look if it's below 50% I figure I'm packing my desk anyway at that point.

362So why bother to give me any pay for performance? >> To the first part of all that um when you're saying the all or nothing. So, for example, if we were going on page three. >> Mhm. >> Uh the guardrail one, you're saying that you shouldn't have given yourself three and a half there. >> That is correct. Yeah, it should be zero. >> Zero. And so the same for the >> same thing for goal one. >> For goal one. Okay. >> That should be zero instead of nine. >> Correct. and and and the numbers, the three and a half and the nine numbers won't persist like they'll be recalculated if the board chooses if if the board is comfortable with everything being equally weighted. So, so fundamentally each category if they were equally weighted because

363there's there's four goals, four guard rails, there's a total of eight. We would divide the 100 points by 8. I think that becomes 12.5, but I too tired at this point in the day to do the actual math. So that's just a guess. It might be right. Sometimes I guess right. And so then each of the categories would get 12.5 points. And it and it would either be a you met it and you get 12 and a half points or you didn't meet it and you get zero points. So if the So the I guess the three questions are is the instrument acceptable? Yes. >> Should it be should the points be equalized across goals and guard rails? >> You mentioned something about Dr. Ramos telling you that that it should be or it usually

364is or what? >> I I won't speak for him. I'll let him tell you. >> Yeah, because we want him obviously the goals matter a great deal and do the guard rails because that's what your community is talking to you about as well. So, yeah, both should be equally weighted. Okay. >> And they have made the adjustments. Again, I'll say it again because it's really important. That's the reason that they've gone to three inter rooms per goal and per guard rule. Once we saw the math, it made a lot more sense to us. So, you can't get 66% out of two interim measures. So if the board is comfortable with it, we'll make the adjustment to the to equally weight. We'll make the adjustment that it's all or nothing. We'll update the instrument and then

365if the board's comfortable with it, we could bring it back to our um we could we do it during our student outcomes governance section on Tuesday if we add it Monday. >> Yeah. Okay. What is everybody's thoughts? >> So, here are my thoughts. There is always a level of um leeway in evaluations and I equate it to like staff evaluations like other staff members like certified. So, like for example, I'll go back to teachers. It's not 100% you get 100% your money. There's like a leeway, right? Um, so I'm having a little bit of a hard time like with their like like I feel like Jay is always hard on himself and so >> you noticed >> like with the all or nothing thing and then looking at this and saying he has to have

366100 points. Um, like I don't I don't want to like dumb down the expectation. That's not what I'm I'm saying. But like in every situation there should be given some leeway. Um, and so that's my only two cents on this. >> Yeah, my input is that I think that we should equally wait at the two different sections and that we should find some way to make the scale a little bit different as far as the percentages go. Well, and I I could offer what we could. The probably the simplest way to do that would be to change it to 90 to 100 is 100. 80 to 89 is 90. I wouldn't personally I don't want to go too far off of that because I really want to be held accountable on this. >> And by

367the way, this is not SOG, so this is really neat for me to witness and listen to because the point systems that's Yeah. that you all hear. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you just give me 100% all the time, too. But that's not what I'm asking for. >> I definitely think the goals and the guardrails should be equally weighted. Um, that that makes sense to me. Um, on the whole and then what else were we discussing is cuz I'm reading specifically from the book the area where it talks about superintendent emails. So, as I'm listening to you guys, I'm trying to see if I can find answers within the book. >> What was the next one? >> Well, the next one, like Dr. just said really isn't going to be in the book because this is

368our like state statute required thing. >> No, I know. But there's >> So the other question is how should we adjust this percentage with the points because as um Heather was just talking about and as he alluded to in terms of like some leeway. The only way right now in this system for him to get the 100% payout of pay for performance is if he got a 100 points, a perfect score. So what we're what we're saying is is like could this percentage system and point system be adjusted to allow for some leeway but without lowering expectations I guess is what we're trying to say. >> I don't think there is. >> I mean would you give a championship to somebody who didn't get the 100% outcome? Like that to me doesn't make sense. >>

369We don't do that to our staff. That's what I'm saying is we don't do that to our staff members. So if you >> why not? >> Because there are so many different things going on like for your pay for performance and I'm on my committee for in my district. There's so many >> Can you speak a little bit closer? >> So there's so many things going on like even like the best teacher >> is not going to get 100%. >> Like I missed one point on mine. I wouldn't have gotten the 100% payout for missing one point on a very rigorous um >> so we would give anation. >> Okay. And my question to that is would we give an A to a student that gets in 89%. >> No, but I'm not saying we

370do that, but we could give an A to a kid that did like 95 to 100. So I'm not I'm saying like maybe you give 100% of the pay. >> So I'm saying there has to be some kind of like a little bit of give, you know. Um, and even especially during this time when when we're like in these initial stages, like I feel like we're all like trying to still figure out like how student outcome focused government works. So I feel like we just need a little bit of >> um, you know, a little bit of wiggle room is what I'm saying. Do that for other people until >> Okay, that makes sense. And I I I I like that I brought up the student question because that literally just put it in perspective.

371So, yeah, I'm I'm willing to change the the percent of eligibility pay for performance because you're right, whether a student gets a 100 or 90, they still get an A. >> Yeah. So, so what I was suggesting is if that's the board's desire, we could change the scale to be that 90 to 100 is 100, but then 80 to 89 is 90. >> Okay. >> 70 to 79 is 80, etc. >> That makes sense to me. Thank you for walking that through with me. Are you still 49 and under? >> Yeah, but I can >> not 60 I would say 50 and below >> and below. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. So, I hear 90 to 100 is 100%. 80 to 89 is 90%. 70 79 80 60 to 69 70. Then we're in this

372area. Are we going from 70 to 50 or 70 to zero or what are we doing here? >> I think it would be 50 to 5960 and zero anything below that. >> Yeah, 60 to zero. >> Yes. >> Oh, that's what you meant. From 60 to zero. >> I thought you were saying 60% is a zero. >> You're 50 to 59 is a 60 and then below >> and then below you there's zero dollars. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yep. >> Feedback. you have 75 which will give you 80% you >> go ahead and go >> need a vote on this >> well you don't we don't need to vote on it today what we would do we'll correct the instrument and we'll bring it back as part of our sof work on Tuesday if

373that's if that's acceptable but I just wanted to make sure because we haven't heard from Tristan or Nicole I stole their mic is probably why >> I can speak >> that >> just to clarify that what you're talking about would change this current annual uh evaluation as well. >> The only part that it's going to change is the back page where it says pay for performance. So, and >> but well, was there talk about changing the scoring the the weights or is that just >> Yeah, the other talk was was equally weighting the goals in the guard. >> My apologies. Yes. >> So, that would change this current evaluation. >> Yeah. And I think Katie did the math and it put him at >> 75 evenly. And then before under the old percentage it would

374you would only get 70%. But under if we adopt if we do the new percentage it would get 80%. >> So it wouldn't change anything. >> You get a 10% increase if performance that we would have if we had to change >> if we make both changes both changes in conjunction. Yeah. >> So his what did you say was 75? >> Yes. Because because there would be two that were fail. They're each 12 and a half points and two not. >> We're also not accounting in those numbers for the taking. He accidentally put the wrong numbers in there. So there's you're first we got to subtract the the the nine and the 3.5 and then redo the math. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I forgot that step. >> Yeah, we we were kind of hashing.

375We were trying to create something and we were hashing through it and so there were multiple iterations. >> Sorry, just to be clear. So, just so everybody's clear, the um the possible rated points stay the same, 72 and 28. The number on the top for his earned points is now 54 and the number on the bottom for his earned points is now 21. >> No, because everything each category would be 12 and a half points. >> Well, you subtracted three and a half. I'm I'm subtracting just that part. I'm giving you zero for that, right? So I'm just I just sub >> half. Yeah, I just subtracted three and a half off the total that you had there is how I changed the >> ex except for if we weighed everything equally each goal in

376guardrail is 12 and a half points and it's met wasn't met >> and um and so there were two that were not met which is 25 points. So the the result would still be that same 75. >> I still get 75. I'm just doing the math differently is all >> correct. Okay. >> Yeah. Sorry. We brought you our working draft. So, >> and then just to be clear because I feel like I've seen this somewhere, but this this little setup, the percentage setup is not part of statute. >> It is not part of statute, but where you've probably seen it before is on our teacher evaluation. It's just not as it's not as on law or something somewhere. So, that's why I was like, it's not probably was so the old >> I wasn't here

377at the time. Hilda may know better, but I believe when that instrument was originally created, it was created on more than 100 points, but I think it was developed by a former board member who was a statistician. >> Oh, been for like 20 years. >> Yeah. Yeah. And you know they the percentages have changed not really the percentage but the points over here on how you achieve the percentages have changed but it basically has looked like this you know for 20 plus years >> and and like >> I'm asking at the state law level because this is like an Arizona thing. >> Yeah. But that's not the that portion of it. What what state law says um is that the board will evaluate the superintendent and set a percentage. We've mimicked in the statute around

378teachers, there's a percentage that has to be tied to student performance and a percentage that can be tied to other things which we use observation for. >> My question is is do given that fact, >> does this still work? Does this last page still work for SOFG? Do we want to explore something different? >> You could. But it's just that's >> I think it works. >> I'm just wondering cuz he mentioned cuz Dr. Ramos just mentioned I don't see this anywhere else. >> So what are the other I'm just curious what are the other districts used at the end to tally everything or figure this out. >> They're just now at that point right now >> even in No, I meant like in Texas and stuff like where you're saying places that aren't in Arizona.

379>> No, what they do is they do a 75% but we developed a rubric this last year >> Okay. of what the SOG and the Lonear governments will say 75% means that he he did a great job and some >> so they get the full pay for performance at 75% >> do pay for performance they don't pay for performance that's what I was trying to that's what's unique yeah >> thank you for an extension you got >> we're not the only state I think we took it from another state that does it but the the theory behind it which is a flawed theory is that if you do pay for performance with superintendents, principles, teachers that it drives higher levels of performance. There's just a ton of statistical data that says that's not necessarily true.

380>> I mean, yeah, I get it. We have paper performance in my job, >> right? >> The prosecutor has all the dice. >> I mean, our Arizona data says that it's not. So, there's that. >> Okay, perfect. Do we have any other questions or concerns? Just to wrap this per portion up, we will have the updated version on Tuesday and we will be able to make a motion and vote on Tuesday's board meeting. Correct. Perfect. Any other questions or wonderings around this? >> Only other thing I will say is that there is it looks like the instrument in some of the columns that we didn't get to yet does ask whether we did a superintendent of val or not. So, we're also moving closer to other scores. >> Yay. That's awesome. Um Dr. Ramos, do

381you have any closing remarks? Or actually, board members, anybody have any closing remarks, thoughts, or wonderings before we close it out? Dr. Ramos, do you have any last minute remarks or anything? >> Proud of you all. >> Yeah. Um, do you want to say something before I close it out? No. Yeah. I just want to thank everybody's time and I really, really appreciate you, Mr. Man, and your whole team. One of the biggest drivers in the institution is going to have an actual leader that can put the right people in the right spots. We I I do not believe that you need to know it all and be handling everything yourself. You're going to be as effective as the people under you. So, I really appreciate all the time and all the governing board members

382being here present in person because there's a lot of other districts that don't have this collaboration between their teams and their even own board members. So, I'm really appreciative to all of you for actually taking the time and wanting to learn and digest all this information to better serve our students. So, thank you. With that being said, I will adjourn today's study session. Thank you guys. You guys have a great weekend.