001e e e thank you very much W is noas good evening to everybody we're going to go ahead and get started the crank School District understands that our community of schools is located on the ancestral land of theam dude and akima otam people who descend who descended from the hokam and have inhabited these lands since time in Memorial the oam whose name translates literally to people are a vibrant culture in community founding countless Generations into the past continuing to thrive in the present and carrying a powerful Legacy for Generations into the future with this acknowledgement the Kayon School District formally recognizes that the traditional care and keeping of these lands by indigenous people is an aspirational model of community stewardship that we are committed to honor with practices policy and human relations and Dr Lauren
002if you can please lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance flag of the United States of America to the rep it stands God indivisible with liberty and justice thank you and that brings us to our roll call we have Miss Gibson McLean Miss SS myself Miss MCB and Miss mcaffrey present we want to welcome everyone to tonight's meeting and remind the audience of the request to address boards Parts must be completed and submitted to board secretary Miss Horus if they wish to speak to an agenda item board policy provides for two cards White cards to be submitted in order to speak to an agenda item and blue cards to be submitted in order to speak during public comments due to open meeting law board members are not allowed to address items that are not on
003the agenda and this is per our policy BH that brings us to approval of agenda I move the governing board approve the agenda as presented second all those in favor I I thank you and that brings us to our governing board reports and Miss MC cheffrey if you can go ahead and get us started I don't have one tonight thank you Miss MCB um just cheers to the school year wrapping up and thank you to all those planning super fun events for all of our students and families to those of you who will will not be returning to kraton you will be missed and we appreciate everything that you have done for all of our students and families and your fellow colleagues and to those who will continue working past Thursday we appreciate everything you
004do thank you Miss SS um good evening um same sediment um I can't believe this year is over already I feel like this year is by maybe it's because um I probably have one of the best classes I've had in a really long time um I'm going to miss them um it's always hard to leave those classes that um touch your heart so much uh we were on a field trip today and they're just amazing students um so congratulations on finishing your year um hope you have a good summer um and um congratulations to all the eighth graders that are going to be graduated and I'll see some of you tomorrow thanks Miss Gibson McLean um just hopefully people take some time off during the summer for themselves if they have the ability or capacity
005to take some time for themselves also we're just wrapping up our first year with uh with Mr Man and it's exciting um I can't believe it's already been an entire school year with you in your position it's been fast so um I don't think I have anything else awesome my neighbor don't have anything else I just appreciate everybody's hard work and I can't wait to see all the beautiful faces tomorrow at eighth grade promotions and that brings us over to 3B which is our superintendent report well I would like to Echo the sentiments of the board members related to um you know the grand appreciation for all of our teachers and staff I know everyone put their heart and soul into this year and I know the last week of school can be a little
006bit extra Challen challenging especially as we roll up on a full moon at the end of the week that I'm not I'm not into like a lot of that Cosmic stuff but I do have a lot of statistical evidence over the years that as the full moon approaches things get more challenging so uh so I just encourage everyone to hang in there catch a break catch a breath when you can and thank you so much for all your hard work um the only other thing that I really have to share is a sincere thank you to uh the members of our committee that has worked on a recommendation that's in our consent agenda tonight um around tool sets to help support student conduct and student emotional learning um they I sat in on their meeting
007last Wednesday and one of the things we've been trying to figure out is how to as we move towards student outcomes Focus governance and we reduce the presentations and a lot of things move into consent how do we do that but create a lot of transparency for the community and still have lot of information for the board members and um president CIO and I attended a training with AJ krabble the other week and he brought up this concept of having a YouTube video embedded with the item which allows both the public to see it and also allows the board members to have a presentation in advance of the meeting and so sitting in on their meeting last Wednesday in one of my more regrettable moments we were halfway through the presentation they were doing to
008the other two committees in a Google meet and I thought this is an absolutely perfect format and so at the end I asked them if they would be kind enough to reconvene record that and that was attached to our board meeting for this evening um and my expression of regret is where I a smarter faster man I might have thought of it before the meeting and we could have just pushed the record button and they wouldn't have had to get together again um but they I left them with if you can't it's fine I'll let you choose and I left the meeting so I wasn't putting pressure on them and they're such amazing individuals that they gather together and produce that for us so thank you I know some of you are with us this
009evening and that went on a little long but I just kind of wanted to explain why that where that format came from and why we're doing that no and I appreciate that um because it's also transparency to our community members to staff if they come back and like hey what's going on it brings great transparency on why we're doing things and we're just trying to be more effective and really value our administrators teachers times so they're not in here a few hours early and going through all this stuff and this just seems to be a little bit practical so I promise we're going to try to get as practical as we can to get the information but also being very cognizant of people's um time so I appreciate that thank you and that brings us
010over to yay our student outcomes focused governance update um I'm really excited for this because as we all know we just accepted our goals and our board guard rails and superintendent guard rails the first thing that we're going to be focusing on is our um goals and our interim goals on what that looks like and what's going to help us get to our overall goal and I think we have some data that's going to be shared with us so that's kind of exciting to see it firsthand already and um then once the intrum goals the discussion's going to go of if we believe that these interim goals are going to be actual predictors of what's going to get us to the ultimate goal and this is where we really get to ask the questions of
011hey I see this data point because I I did see this information beforehand and we do have some areas where we're lacking obviously with the data that we just got but then in another area we actually improved so this is the perfect conversation for us to find out why in certain areas we increase but in other ones we decreased so I will turn it over to um superintendent man and Dr dupin to go ahead and start off with the um presentation thank you very much President koreo we um have been I knew that was coming that's why I pause for a second is there just to pause also is it bad for us to have the door open with the air on I know that's just maybe it's some Pavo or like something that was
012like trauma response com out believe we have the door open because because we have a malfunctioning door that is latching when we okay so um so is not probably not optimal okay but um work working through a uh limited function moment okay that's fine now that I know that I'll be fine I think it was causing me anxiety I the fly probably didn't the fly but then I thought gosh all the cold air is really just as a child I was pavlovian trained to close every door so I've been having a few few I'm waiting's gonna come out of the corner somewhere here um so for I I like you know me I like to start with a couple mopas and an apology if I can but um we we had sent some early draft
013documentation out to the board in the board update last Tuesday and in reviewing that with President CIO um she pointed out some places where we really weren't on track with what the design of the student outcomes Focus governance is intended to be and then ironically 24 hours later uh Dr Ramos who we had sent the information to to get his feedback on sent us the exact same feedback that president kuo had provided us so we're feeling pretty good that we're closer to the Target now as far as the information being correct it did take us a little bit of time to get that together so the apology is that I believe we got this updated about 3:30 yesterday which is not our intended Norm for how much lead time we give you uh to review
014information and in point of fact moving forward in the student outcomes focused governance work one of our still to-do tasks is to build a calendar for next year so that way we're structuring all of this out in such a way that um we know when data arrives and then the calendar has enough time built into it for that data to be processed prepared and provided to the board well in advance of the board meeting where having the conversation we may also have some conversations about frequency of board meetings because one of the things we've noticed since starting the sofg work is that the every twoe format that we're under right now part of what's creating some of our challenges and getting stuff turned around quickly enough because every time we wrap a meeting we're switching
015years to the next meeting so um we may want to look at some adjustments to that but we can have that discussion um when we get to the calendaring p of this presentation tonight you're saying No No No not tonight that's a future that's for a future but just to clarify you mean to have less meetings theoretically it would potentially be less meetings to provide more time between meetings for the preparation of these types of materials so um so but that doesn't have any bearing on the content itself I was just putting that in there because it became evident as we've been working to prepare various data sets for the last six or eight meetings every time we wrap a meeting we're rushing to get the next version of the set of data together so
016um with that um what what we have for you tonight is only related to the goals um we actually still have on our to-do list to create uh measures for both the board guard rails and the superintendent guard rails and it this technically will'll have some information around goal 3 but there are some pieces that are still being calculated for goal three we look at future if I correctly so um so with that I am going to um take advantage of Dr dupin being here to have him walk us through the first couple slides here thank you Mr Man thank you president CIO members of the board um I'll just I'm GNA take us through these slides quickly and of course please ask ask any questions that you have stop me at any point in
017time um what I'd like to begin with is just a summary of the ual targets um the information is placed here um and all of the these data are derived from two information sources either from the ASA State assessment or in the case of goal three from aella so we what we've done is broken down the gap between the 2023 Baseline so the data from a year ago that we looked at when we began our study of student outcomes focused governance to our goal which is for 2028 so we also you'll notice that the um intervals of either increase or decrease they're not exactly even when we started drafting these out we the first thing we did was we said okay five years if we want to increase by 25% for example let's just break
018it down evenly we got some feedback actually believe it was from Dr Ramos who asked us to consider the and we may have all been together when he said this I'm sorry I can't remember but he is to consider the possibility that it might be take time to ramp up and it might be adequate to start with slightly smaller interim measures or interim interim goals and then build once momentum is established and momentum around the practices that will create these results established so when possible we've replicated that structure so I'll just walk us through goal one um we started with our intent is to decrease the percentage of minimally proficient students from 73% uh last August to 48% by August 28th and that's August 2028 and that's for um eighth grade students in math so
019we just decided to start with like a 3% reduction for this first year and then move to a 4% reduction for the sy25 and then then a 5% reduction for uh 2026 and 2027 culminating in what would ultimately be a 7% reduction in the final year so we try to keep pretty tight to not not setting a Target that's greater than a 7% change either increase or decrease depending on the goal because of our research and experience that suggests that anything greater than 7% is statistically unlikely um sometimes possible but statistically very unlikely to occur I can go through each of these or I'm happy to answer any questions if you'd like to discuss I'm gonna go ahead and um ask a couple questions and then start this off and then we can go from
020there um the beauty about this framework and working together with our administrators and superintendent is that we're both collaboratively learning from each other and working together to understand this how this institution as a whole works to make sure that our students are getting what they need right so I think one of the issues that I'm seeing with inum goal goal is that I was rereading this page um in the framework that we have and our inum goals need to be predictive of the out of the overall goal and the way that we have our intrum goals right now is um do you mind going to the page Hilda I think um in the in this slide deck it's page for example if you just go to the first uh proposed interm goal and progress monitoring
021that one so for example do you see in Trum goal 1.1 we're collecting data from August 2023 to October 2023 which is a good indicator but as an intrum goal is not what it's supposed to be the intr goal should be in a smart predictive format of what it looks like to get us to the main goal so right here and I I just emailed you guys I don't know you guys have access to your email but I also emailed you guys this sheet real quick and I'm going to read out loud basically what it says and then you guys let me know if this this makes sense so it says when determining the targets for goals and interum goals the management team should evaluate at least three things five average growth identify the previous
022five years summative percentage of year-over-year growth for the T targeted student outcome then average those five numbers together and that's the minimum average growth to beat the analysis assumes a reasonable stat sta static trend line so one if circumstances have disrupted that adjust accordingly and two this should be considered the bare minimum threshold of for poor of performance and any Targets should outperform this and then it says that intrum goals and intrum guard rails are measures of progress toward a defined goal or guardrail by their nature interum goals are output metrics that are predictive of the goal and I think that predictive word is where we need to focus on when it comes to interim goals that they should be set in the future not this data does play out but I think it plays
023out in the sense of where we at in the trajectory of those last five years does that make sense it it does but I don't know how an interim like all the interim goal samples we've looked at Target the the um Target the annual Target not the end goal point right and I think it has to be predictive of the annual Target right and I think that's I think that's what we tried to structure here was prediction for the annual Target what yeah go ahead don't mind me asking go ahe does the difference look like um I would need to I don't I don't have anything on me to Bas it towards off of but I've just seen that inum goals have been in predictive like in future sense and since we have data of
02423 are you saying because these are through this past year yeah you know and I I meant I apologize president CIO I meant to preface with this the so I think what's unusual here is that it's May so normally when we would be doing this work it would be before the start of the school year and so we it would be predictive of the next year and what's unusual in our case because we've been doing the work throughout the year is that and and I and it's a question I haven't had a chance to ask yet I sometimes wonder if rather than having built our goals off of August of 23 to August of 28 if we should have built our goals off of August of 24 to August of 29 because by the time
025we adopted our goals we were already in like we did it at our May 7th meeting so we were already through this year which makes it has made it very odd building interims for this year if that makes sense I I'm wondering if that's we're we're like and I don't I'm not saying anyone in particular I think it's where I'm struggling with it because it's we're sort of at a different point in time time than you would traditionally be you know for looking at these and so what we I guess just to add to that I mean how are we in Integrity or if we're just like are we just calling this year a wash or well that so because of Integrity the goal was to not call this year a wash so the what
026we attempted to do was try to model based on what we would have used no I meant like in general like we aren't you know we didn't spend this entire school year I guess adjusting getting data giving feedback and going through the system that we would be doing the following school year right so I don't know how we can adequately judge or if it's fair to adequately judge this school year when we didn't actually employ any of these things that's that's what I feel like CU I feel like this like this is really helpful just to kind of look back and see like had we had this in place this is kind of what it would look like yeah but I feel like truly our Baseline needs to be this year yeah from like 2024
027it feels like it would be like scientifically inaccurate yeah well we haven't had the opportunity to follow the process which is giving that feedback addressing and evaluating if the things were're doing are working because we weren't there yet which is fair but is there anything keeping us from saying I know we just adopted the goals and printed them but like that it's 24 to 29 no and then what I can do is I can um after this meeting because obviously our Coach watches our board meetings and there will be some guidance so we can pivot on the goal um language if we have to amend it I think that's still possible to get back on track but this is a good practice run I think anyways and this is what even besides if we're doing
028this the way that it's supposed to or not I really like this anyways because we saw a decrease in two areas and in one we worked so this this is where the questions would be like okay so what happened in those two in 1.1 inm goal and 1.2 that didn't work but then all of a sudden in 1.3 we had a huge jump and we met the goal without even having anything so obviously we were doing something correct in that from January to May time frame that is not obviously didn't work for the other two so I guess that's when the real conversations can ha happen and I think if we do clarify the language it would probably be easier for us because I did see that there's another slide that has empty interims and
029that's probably one of the factors I mean I'm not trying to put words in your mouth but it's it would bring more clarity because you're right we're we were playing with data and because it took us like six months to adopt goals we didn't even think to hey update the dates right right and if we update the dates I don't think we should be above cutting something out of a piece of paper and taping it over the last I we should not be spending money on remaking an entire poster those are not the those are temporary prints just so that we would see how it look like yeah those are not the the final format so we like I know we just printed them I'm sorry yeah it's it's a piece of foam core with
030a sheet of paper okay it's not a highly expensive oh we need something different than that well we don't necessarily we could do it again so um but we we uh um what we tried to to model after was um page 23 in the in the framework implementation guide so that's that's sort of what was the model for for these goals and you know clearly as was pointed out our I'm sure our coach will very kindly and gently redirect us for anything that we've done done wrong in this process so since we're looking and eventually the way that this is going to look is when we have our board calendar set up we're going to be talking about one goal per meeting every I believe every every quarter so by the end of the school
031year we should have talked about all the goals at some point so this can probably be a good starting point I think if we go on to the other goals it would be kind of counterproductive because I think we still have some questions that we need to be answered but this is a perfect example with stuff that we have already that I think we can start basing off of our questions off of if we have any but like that's my first question is what and I know it's an open like a broad but maybe you guys know like what literally happened in interim 1.3 that was a difference between 1.2 and 1.1 the only concrete answer I can offer is that it was a much longer period of time than the other two so it
032Go January to may we don't give a benchmark in in the middle of that time frame because that's when we're giving AA so there's a longer period of instruction from January to May to go from interim Benchmark to to the post test um but I also think that there's been increasing awareness of these goals we've been working with our Leadership Council our Teachers Association our district leaders across all of the Departments um to build awareness over the student outcomes focused governance and I would say that there's still a long way to go before everybody really understands the focus and the and the associated changes in practice but the awareness is building there's been a lot more conversation that the goals exist which I do think potenti has the potential to create some impact but I
033believe the biggest contributing factor is the amount of time that was available for that period yeah if I could add to that you know and again this is largely speculative because keep in mind we've only had this data set since last Friday so we really haven't had a ton of time to dive into it right but we and and I think there's been hesitancy in the past to bring data that fast but we knew we had this goal conversation and we thought well we have actual data we can bring to bear so yeah and this let's bring it to Bear yeah this is perfect because it'll help us see better what's going on um but one of one of the things I would speculate as well is that everything builds in math so your growth
034you know from what you're learning at the beginning of the year to what you're learning at the end of the year is really dependent upon setting sort of that Baseline foundation and then building on off of it so we may have seen you know a larger Improvement between um and I know we saw we saw a step back in the initial Target right so you're starting the school year kids take a benchmark assessment that's sort of their Bas line the by the next test and I'm just thinking back to when I was in school doing math I'm really confused about math you know there might be a dip in performance right but then as the year goes on you're reinforcing those early skills skill sets and building on them and your confidence and your skill
035sets are building so we may be seeing the building of confidence and skill sets across the year play out in those finals but that is absolutely speculative I have it no it's all anecdotal I have no actual statistical data that that proves that that's fundamentally what makes you believe that that is true um to be honest what I the things that caused me to believe that to be a possibility of what's true um are things that I've observed as I've been out at the school sites and sort of watching The Way kids are interacting in their classrooms with the other students and the teachers at this point in the year versus what it looked like in sort of October and December so it is absolutely purely anecdotal and you may you may have the way
036the standards build on each other requires a lot of distributed practice over time so the more the kids practice those standards the more they're going to be achieving Mastery the more they're going to be ready for the next set of standards that are introduced in the upcoming units so practice practice over time it has a significant impact on these scores and one of the things that Dr dup and um and Dr pombo have been working on this year with um basically all of our site leaders is making one of the things we observed at the beginning of the year were some challenges with having learning Target and success criteria posted in classrooms and I'm not saying by the end of the year that went from not very high um Fidelity to like exceptional Fidelity but
037there I believe there was an improvement over the course of the year and I do think in particular with things like mathematics and science having those types of indicators for students is really powerful in grounding their learning and helping them be successful because it lets them know sort of what they're working on and where they're trying to get and math can be particularly challenging if you don't understand exactly what you're trying to accomplish in a in an individual period or lesson session I'm most confused about how the minimally proficient numbers are so different between asasa and DNA I guess I'm asking are the proficiencies not align so much that like there's a 20% difference I'm just confused on how it's so vastly different a great question it is a great question and so let me
038see if I can answer it simply there's there there are one thing that we believe to be true is that the DNA benchmarks are substantially more difficult than aasa for a variety of reasons some of it has to do with the interface some of it has to do with the test structure and and the way that the questions are actually built they conceptually aligned the standards for sure but they are perceived to be just harder for the kids um and forgive are aasa and DNA given in the same format meaning digital versus um they're both digital okay that just curious so then what has to be done is there has to the we go through a process to equate the scores so that we can have the predictive validity that President CIO talked about and
039have we developed that system we don't do that we rely on the vendor so at the after we get all of our aasa test results we provide that information to Renaissance is the company that provides the benchmarks and then what they do is they run a correlation study to look at how kids actually scored on ASA and compare those scores to their benchmark scores to see how how comparable those scores really are what we learned last year is that there's you know depending on the grade level there's about an 80% validity to the way the kids score on their assessment on their Benchmark assessment is going to tie back to how they're going to score on asasa is there some outlier we should know about grade level wise well what I'm eager to be able
040to do probably as we prepare to set the interims for next year is I would like to bring the correlation study here and show you and just be like here's what here's what happened with Asa and here's how that ties backs and I think Rel to president cio's point about the mathematics of setting the interims that correlation study will be very valuable as it you know what what a um what a particular level of proficiency on The Benchmark is likely to produce on asasa okay but we did do it we made a change this year there's two ways to calculate proficiency on the benchmarks and we get to pick so the first way is to have and we we went through this Amy you'll remember um with ATI you we can do like a predictive
041analysis that kind of takes that correlation study and then raises the expected levels of proficiency across the course of the year so there's cut scores for each proficiency level in a in a in a in one model you kind of raise those all year long so so that they change the great thing about that is they're a little bit better as predictors the challenge is that it kind of provides to teachers and students a false sense of proficiency early on in the year so if the bar is lower for Proficiency in August or October than it is in May that kind of leaves people with a with a bitter taste in their mouth so like wait a minute I was proficient back in October what do you mean I'm minimally proficient in May do you
042also select School are those we rely on the vendor to to provide a mathematical calculation so we did it that way in the prior year our first year with Renaissance we allowed those those predictive cut scores to change it was it's it's very complicated it's hard for kids to understand why the cut score changes throughout the year it's hard for teachers and administrators to understand why that change would happen so this year what we did was establish a static cut score so there's a minimum and I don't have them off the top of my head but I can bring them there's a minimum percentage correct that ties to each proficiency band and that percentage correct and those proficiency bands those cut scores have remained consistent all year long and that way we're able to say
043well minimally proficient in October is tied to the same score that it'll be tied to in May and so I'm eager to get that correlation study to see if there's any difference from the way we did it before to the way we did it now um my sense is that keeping those consistent is provides more value because it's more meaningful to the end users which is the kids and the teachers for the most part and are these sorry point of clarification are the interim benchmarks are they just testing the students on what they have learned to that point in the year or is it that's a great question blueprinted of the year yeah so when they which also could contribute to the to the Gap so they're they're based on all of the standards or
044a sampling of all the standards kids should learn in eth grade so when they take that first especially the pretest in August most of the stands yeah not should then the next one we've seen more of the standards but there's still a bunch that they haven't seen yet and then it contribut so by the end in a with guaranteed and VI curriculum and quality instruction with clear learning targets and success criteria they've had the opportunity to learn all or most of the standards for that grade level so that is probably a significant contributing factor to the change that's here and and one of the things that I think is important to know when we made that change to how we do the calculation it wasn't like you know Eric just had an idea or I
045said hey I'm the new superintendent let's do it this way now um it was actually during a leadership conversation um we did quite a bit of discussion looking at it um I think we even did a survey um to try to get some feedback on it because what we wanted to understand is amongst you know the broader leadership team like what was people's understanding of what would be most effective to inform instruction in the classroom and the tradeoff if I remember correctly was around concerns of seeing more red and other words seeing more um minimally proficient because we're setting the same bar across the year versus having that false indicator of success because we've set the bar Lower and then slowly raise the bar over the course of the year which can also have an
046impact on um sort of the impetus to correct and move forward because you you have this you know hey if we're doing great we don't have to push as hard if you're like Hey we're not there yet then you have that sense that you need to kind of push harder to get what where you need and we also didn't want to set a standard that and we did have some feedback from parents about this like if a student tests proficient on The Benchmark in May why would they get an aasa score that showed a lower level of proficiency so that's good feedback we want that alignment to be there so keeping those cut scores consistent helps people have a reasonable understanding of what they what their child should be able to expect the children have
047a reasonable expectation of what they could expect as an outcome on ASA no I think just for like just input on working with teachers on data like it is that when you raise the cut score on a test designed to test standards for the whole year it really just as you me makes it incredibly difficult for staff and students to understand um and it is a little disheartening when you you know you have your beginning of year and even your December and you're like they're not there but like then you're able to have conversations with students and teachers about but let's look at their scores and see where they're improving and see where they didn't Master the standard in August but they did in December and you know it's not just about the colors so
048right so I think some of the feedback that we're looking for is the way these are designed is simply kind of if you think about a timeline interim 1.1 is from the preest to the first Benchmark and we would expect a certain amount of growth and then interim goal 1.2 is from interim Benchmark one to interim Benchmark 2 and then interim goal 1.3 is from interim Benchmark 2 to the post test which which is given at the end of the year and that's that end of your post test is what we should see having the highest correlation to an equivalent score on ASA or to at least a proficiency band I mean that makes sense to me well you kept in mind you know I feel like when I T have to talk when I
049get to talk about things like cut scores and how that all gets established I sometimes feel like it's mental gymnastics like you really have to especially if the cut scores change it it can get really it can get a little lost so we were really trying to keep in mind because I feel like I recall guidance around keeping this around a sixth grade level so that when we're talking with folks children teachers whomever that it's comprehensible at about that level so we felt like if it was pretty straight and direct aligned to time aligned to to similar assessments that would give us the best traction to accomplish our our student outcomes focused goals because when are the can you refresh me on the months that DNA is given yes uh August is the pre is
050the preest right after school starts first two weeks then we give another one in October we give one in January and then the post okay and we have those predictive dates of that and that's the DNA bench um the DNA test rate that's done four times and we actually do schedule those ourselves so it's we can them so that they flow well with our governing board calendar with our professional learning communities and our Leadership Council so we can act take action on the data when it comes out and then is the only reason well I don't know this is just curiosity on the second goal obviously those percentages are vastly more similar is that just because of the size of the actual group is so much smaller that I'm just having I'm trying to understand
051if the correlation is the same or if it's not or what's going on there I think it's you know number one it's incredibly disheartening to see that pattern persist um and it definitely ties I mean it could relate to the small sample size just of the of the population but again as we've discussed in the past it especially given the small sample size it feels super like there's you've got to be able to move the needle yeah I was expecting it to be like 20% or something you know like you know on the DNA which is really a small number of kids so that when we saw that we're like yeah you know so we we're we're now putting in place plans for addressing all of these but in particular this one in a way
052that's you know kind of works with the other eighth grade goal to to speak to involving teachers in practices that support this intended growth right again to be fair I mean you haven't really put that into place yet right and then comparing goal one to goal two the difference between SE like DNA and ASA on goal one is vastly different than the correlation or difference between DNA and ASA and goal two right well and also keep in mind with Goal one the goal the goal is to reduce Min proficiency but the difference is similar you know what I mean so it just was strange when I know we need we have work to do on figuring out like do we change this because the work is just starting truly um do we you know we
053have work to do to determine if we're changing this to like this is the Baseline but um just for General feedback I do like the format of reporting in this way because I think you're able to see trends like the one you're thinking of you know like obviously I know we'll dive a lot deeper into things but I just for the format's good clear yeah I mean I obviously I went to law school but I have don't have a masters I'm not a math person my undergrads in history like so when it comes to this stuff it's good especially as a visitable person to like see this stuff laid out in a way that's kind of easy to consume this feels a little bit like at it actually I'm going to admit took me a
054minute to realize oh yeah The Benchmark is through DNA and not ASA even though it's obvious but I was like what in the heck is going on with these numbers um and that took but I'm glad I figured it out before I asked my first question um but I will say like it seems consumable I would say maybe like B like bold that DNA math benchmark because someone else might look at this quickly and be like huh why are we starting at 73 and 93 there um a little bit confusing for some people yeah and I think that's why I think the communication part of it is going to be critical as we really have our boards and part of our Board calendar is going to be that we are out in the community literally
055every recorder giving out this information so as we're getting DNA updates and we're talking it about here which is engagement this was a huge thing that our framework is teaching us to the difference between engagement and Outreach right we're here presenting in front of everybody this is engagement even though this is a public space but us actually going out to the community and doing that Outreach and making sure that our parents and our community members understand this lingal and why you know we have these proficiency rates versus minimal like that's up to us to make sure that our community's understanding so our Outreach plan will probably have to be R ramped up um once we have this in order um the other thing that I really do like about these inum goals is that we
056already have the output version of it they need to be an output format which usually outputs are you know formative assessment benchmarks assessments anything that the district uses and in return that's when we can start having the input conversations of what in the system when we talk about inputs whether that's teacher curriculum whatever that is that's the administrators then that's when we can start really having the conversations of like okay what is it exactly that we're doing with this inside that's working is it not working and that's how we can follow along so I think once we have oh can we go to the the graph slides one of the graph slides um oh sorry it's I thought it was my bad um so yeah So eventually this is what in a nice and this
057is why we do it this way too so our community has a better understanding of what it looks like when we're giving all this data and it gets translated into a graph and it's a little bit easier um to follow obviously as we have our coaching memos I feel like this is going to be changing a little bit but at the bottom you see how it has every single year um until the goal is met of 2028 that's the predictive I'm assuming the stars are what what is it exactly the Stars what's 48 55 61 those are the annual targets okay so um and to to give credit where credits do we kind of lifted this format from our neighbor Phoenix Elementary and they used stars as their annual Target so we just replicated that
058um the the blue line that you see there those are those DNA measures we were just talking about so those were the intera measures and then the green line would be the aasa data so that's sort of the uh it's not the final score at the end of the five years but it's the final score for the for the interim for the year so um the reason you're seeing that at the bottom of the line is because we don't have that data set yet um and so the reason everything kind of collapses to the base is because that's showing all the things that we don't have the data sets for yet I know this is like in weeds but is there a way just to not enter zero and let the line that's what I
059was going to say like typically when you're graphing if you just don't have data points the line stops and I think that the reason we didn't this first go around was because you wouldn't see the green line at all so you would you wouldn't know what we're yeah you wouldn't know what we're putting out there I just was like anybody like for this is great to have this visual but it could add more confusion moving forward we we could certainly I think this is another visualization where like if this is going to be published to the community which I assume a graph like this would be and we're discussing it like where this correlation conversation is going to be like super pivotal or instrumental because it just feels disingenuous to be looking at data that's
060not necessarily from you know what I mean our comp it feels weird looking at the blue line versus versus the orange line or the green line knowing that they're not the same thing so I'm very curious to look at the correlation study and see how that's determined and I would want us to communicate that stuff in the most consumable way possible about the correlation study to everybody involved teachers staff families well and I I would just caution that we don't even I know what Dr dupin shared and I agree with him um it's not ever going to be a perfect Ono one match but the thing I would caution us about is um we we really don't know if those numbers are in fact like a direct correlation because we don't have the ASA to
061compare it to right certainly certainly we really won't know until we see that I mean we know from the starting point of the school like what was in the very first one sorry say the discussion when we're talking about DNA because it's never going to be a perfect correlation is really to say okay well even if the you know DNA is at 98 and the asasa was at 73 but really the point of looking at the DNA is to look at the trend no I totally get that but as if you're talking to somebody who doesn't work with data all day who's not in education they're going to be like well what the hell's wrong with the other test my kids's doing great on the DNA yeah what can you explain what's going on with
062this test like I think if you're just thinking about it like a regular person what it's going to be very confusing like what is going on on this graph well this this one I think is going to be challenging for people too because keep in mind we chose an inverted measure yes so it's it's minimal proficiency so I mean your your your goal is to be as close to the bottom of this chart as possible whereas all the other ones are to the top so so I do think I'm not disagreeing I'm agreeing we we need quite a bit of information to make sure we're creating Clarity around what are people actually looking at so and to Dr dupin's earlier point we need to make sure however we create that additional supporting information that it's
063written at a sixth grade level so that way it's able to not only capture all of our community but you know and I've mentioned this before and I know the board feels this way and our team feels this way we ultimately want this consumable by our students as well so that's another reason that I think it's important you know given that we're an elementary school district if we target sixth grade level you know it's kind of at the higher end of the the grade levels we have for kids but at least it'll hopefully make it adequately understand able that that all we'll be able to bring all of our students into a position of understanding what they're looking at when they're looking at their data yeah and I think that's why that two we I
064mean two-way communication's going to be imperative on how we handle that and the more we're out there the more we're talking about it it's eventually it it you know we'll we'll try to inform as many people we can because this is kind of a new thing and it's going to take time for people to kind of understand it but it's as long as our two-way communication is going there I think we we can combat that um Miss MC cheffrey do you have any specific questions thoughts um you know I just on this conversation I mean I think you know what you talked about earlier Mr Man with the video I was going to bring that up when we get to um consent but I mean maybe a a video explanation of this could work I
065mean because yeah looking at this graph it is it's not super consumable but but having this conversation I think helps um describe what's happening in the graph but I think even like a 60-second video could probably yeah could probably describe this and um I assume we're calling the DNA um benchmarks DNA in the classroom and two parents right so that's at least something they re would recognize um which we're trying we're the goal is to maintain common langu as we can so and you know ultimately the ideal is that everyone in our sphere of influence becomes better consumer of data over time so you know we want we want our clearly you know I would love to understand it at a deeper level but we want to make sure that our principles do we want
066to make sure that our teachers do want to make sure that our students do we want to make sure that our famili do so that's going to be a journey over time my hope is that DNA as a tool serves us well because one thing that will help a lot is if we can stay in the St same tool for a number of years that'll create that opportunity to build awareness around it but at the same time you know the tool has to serve us well so if we find that it doesn't overtime then as we have in the past we may seek a different right tool set and as Dr dupin mentioned you know we're somewhat dependent upon the vendor to provide things like the correlative data and one of the things we've experienced
067in the past because you're purchasing something from another entity that sometimes those entities get purchased by other entities there's combin it's kind of what happened with atsi right so one Renaissance when we bought DNA it was owned by illuminate right I was gonna say Renaissance just bought that so so there's some other moving parts that are sometimes problematic and it's one of the reasons that I'm always adding ating for it would be nice if as a state we move towards a multi-point assessment system that everybody use because that might create more long-term common standardization and it certainly you know be more cost effective um but for the time being what we have is the ASA test and then this tool set to be to be able to provide that Benchmark Works they don't have time
068for that at 8 right well and I will say because there's a a number of other tools that can be used used but I have seen them create false proficiency indicator not all of them so like I'm kind of of the mindset of I would rather our interims show or Perce you know give us a perception we're doing worse than we are and we're delightfully surprised when we get Asa versus there are some tools that maybe hover closer in correlation but they actually show students performing slightly better then they end up on ASA and I want to avoid that sense to people who do this every day a regular parent may think that sounds ridiculous I'm just being honest um miss michaelb any other questions or comments I just I I'll double down on the
069like a screencast kind of explaining because it's really not a complicated concept we're just wanting things things to go up or you know up or down depending so I think you know creating Clarity yeah yeah it's just that two-way communication piece of really getting it out there and making sure that we're being consistent and putting it out there first of all um I think in a screencast too like I know it's also difficult because we don't have longitudinal data quite yet and maybe it would be even worthwhile if it's going to be a screencast to really explain how we will present the data maybe it's you know putting in some numbers from previous creating a graph as though we've been doing this so you kind of have that the chall is relatively new to us
070so it's it's hard to like or even a fake graph I hate to say that just to explain the how these work and how we will be presenting the information I don't know or even go back to these Square graphs not graphs but Square the TA tables yeah um because you could probably explain that in less than a minute you know Miss SS do you have any other questions or comments nothing new to add that hasn't been said okay thank you and Miss Gibson McLean no good um I think this was a a good indicator in your first start at least we have what the benchmarks look like we have some interum goals and from what I I think we just need a couple of shifts and we'll just wait until we speak to Dr
071Ramos but obviously we're I feel like we're Co PF and we're understanding what an interm goal is what an output is and how we are getting to our overall goals so I I feel like we're doing good this is a a a practice run yes healthy conversation and then we'll wait until we hear the feedback from Dr R that way we can pivot the way that we need to because that's what all this is about is pivoting to what's going to work and what's not and we have to do that sometimes ourselves as Leaders leading this this so we'll see what pivots we need to make and then hopefully by the next board meeting we can have a little bit more um structured interum goals and then what we'll do is that once we feel
072like we have it going then we have to vote on each interum goal and we all have to be aligned if we don't then we just send Administration back and we let them know this doesn't work for us we're not convinced this this is going to be an actual inum indicator of how we're going to meet our annual Target let alone our five-year goal and then that's how the conversation goes back and forth until we're all set on the inim goals and then we start monitoring those um did you have anything else um the only the only basically two things to add one is um we recognize we also have similar types of measures to come up with for the guardrail so what we didn't want to do is get too far ahead of ourselves
073clearly we're still refining here so um hopefully as we as we have this convers will help create some some greater Clarity for us to be able to bring those forward as well and then the last thing is there's going to be quite a bit of chicken and egg right now so and what I mean by that is we now know what the goals are and we know what the guard rails are and we know what some of the inputs we're going to need for next year are to get on track even though we don't have all of the remaining pieces adopted and so the best example I can use is the one I used earlier which is that for one of the superintendent guard rails you know there's there's a guardrail that's around social emotional
074needs of students and some of those components and so one of the input recommendations the board has on its consent agenda tonight is directly tied to that so we're not waiting to get all of this finalized because if we do we'll lose next year as well you know from the perspective of trying to make progress on these specific goals um in fact Dr dupin and I had a great conversation today with some things that he's got on Deck to work with our leadership team on in relation to both the eighth grade math goal and the eighth grade um black student math goal um and I there are things that I'm like wow yeah that would be really helpful and highly effective as something to put into place for next year to try to move those
075goals forward so we're not you know sitting around waiting to get this finalized because we we recognize the fact that right now is when we're sort of finalizing all plans for next year and if we wait at all then we'll kind of miss that next window of opportunity to not only have the goals in place and the interims in place but to have the inputs in place so that way we can start to measure and get feedback from the board as we move forward and I appreciate you saying that because the framework is speaking for itself already they're working ahead of time now we have this Clear Vision it's obvious that our team is doing their diligent work to get to that um and another clarifying Point too is that we will eventually get to
076our guard rails I know that that's one of the most important things that our community wants to jump on fast because it is the vision of um our community and our guard rails but I want us to make sure that we get these intrum goals and we're all set on this that way when we have a clear um vision of how the benchmarking and the intrum goals it would just translate into our guard rails and it would be a smoother process so don't think that we're not going to get there we are we just are trying to figure out these first and then we'll work on their our guard rails as well but that's as is important to the work than the goals are too um yeah go ahead refresh me because I know right
077now we only have third grade ASA data does anyone remember when the rest will be released to you guys like will we have a general percentage for ASA next time we meet right yeah Friday there been a lot of emails in the last few weeks there's been a lot of emails um we we we should have raw data files for everything aasa by Friday and and that's probably another thing we should specify is that in the past when we've had conversations around data with the board we've traditionally used full Academic Year what they call Fay data um which is where it kind of gets scrubbed down to the students that are calculated into to how your letter grade getss calculated for for your um school because I always us all students this right well this
078is all students right so and that data that we'll have on Friday will be all students as well in the conversations we've had we're leaning towards using all student data because what I used to you know you have all these myths and things you learn over time when I hear full Academic Year I think Oh you mean the kids who were with us the entire School year well apparently that's not how full Academic Year is calculated I will not tap Dr dupin to explain the convoluted mechan minations of how that's calculated but in um conversations that we've had it feels like the raw data is actually the impact data and so that makes more sense for us to use as we're looking at our measures so we will actually um have that data and be
079able to look at it in relation to this year's annual targets and how on track or off track we are for this year's annual targets that's why I thought it came out for I just wanted to clarify because I'm like also if we do have the conversation about Baseline starting then we need to know what the Baseline is so yeah and and I don't know that I don't know that we necessarily you know do Dr Ramos may tell us notice stay with what you have and know that this year was a little messy right um learning's messy so it's not necessarily a bad thing if it's and we may just continue on from this point um I think I said earlier this year I don't even have any hard burden for being held accountable to
080this year even though it may be at a disadvantage because I believe in the work so much that it's I would rather have a personal disadvantage for Jay a superintendent if it's advantageous to our students in our community so um I don't know that that's unnecessarily those things must go together I'm not advocating for you know a future know swatting around or whatever by the board but but my my point is I'm really less concerned about how it reflects than I am about what gets us to the end goal most effectively and most efficiently for our students absolutely yeah I appreciate that um anything to add Dr dupin um one of the things that I feel like we might want to consider as we finish packaging what this is going to look like is maybe
081to include some answers to frequently asked questions like who is included as you were talking it made me think well we might want to say well who's included what's the time frame um who where do the test like which tests do we use like just some statements and then we can certainly narrate that but that feels like a missing piece to me at this point just based on hearing the conversation that's necessary to have those pieces in order to fully understand and thank you for bringing that up because part of going into this board calendar that eventually we will talk about and is that we should be submitting our questions like those hard questions ahead of time so we're giving enough time for our administrators to come back and give us those answers of what's
082working or what not what we don't want to create on this board is gotcha moments for us and gacha moments for our administrat our administrators because then that just puts us in a position where it looks like we're just fighting each other and we don't know what we're doing so if we get in the standard practice of you know reading our materials looking at the videos that eventually will get posted and then asking those questions ahead of time directly and then they'll still get addressed and then that way that communication can happen too like okay well that's not what I asked instead of being on the board and be like that's not what I meant and having this whole back and forth conversation and we just wasted this whole time on a misunderstanding so it
083with practice we'll get there too but yes thank you for bringing that up Dr dupin because I do believe that that sometimes we have really important questions and it's not just an answer that can be answered uh you know an hour into the meeting it might take a little bit of research it might take a little bit of answers an epiphany might happen so yes um getting questions ahead of time um you're still saying present those answers to the meeting and be transparent about absolutely okay it's just that sometimes with certain questions other things come up and yes but those same questions will get asked and they will be discussed in the public board meeting um so thank you for that Dr dupin yes the only thing I'll just float out there is that if
084something were to come up I wouldn't want anyone to feel prohibited from asking a question I feel like you got to tow line there and make sure that it never then starts to appear like all everything was prepackaged and like I get it and I agree with all this and I never want us to appear like we've prepackaged and like decided everything outside of the Quorum and we've I'm not saying we're doing that but I can see how that could easily be seen by somebody on the outside like oh they've figured out all the questions ahead of time they're not going to ask any real questions at the meeting now I just want us to be like transparent about how we do all this yeah and um thank you for bringing that up too and
085I also think that we have amazing board members that know what a proper question is if they were going to wait until the board meeting instead of throwing a bomb thrower like what we like to call them and just ask random questions for no reason so I I have the confidence that we're all know our governance role and we're really Adept um board members that I I I know that we wouldn't have that situation happen but yes you're absolutely right I don't want to send that message out that that's what we're doing because that's not what it is it's actually just giving an opportunity more for our answers to actually be answered with actual details of what's Happening versus oh I this is what we think will happen next but yes thank you for bringing
086that up as well I mean we really don't want to work with the board in a way where like you ask 15 questions and 13 of them are oh that's an interesting question we'll have to research yeah and then by that time the board meeting comes we forgot it got left back and there we go back to square one and in return we have our 0% data it's almost I kind of think of it as well one holding us accountable to do our homework ahead of time but two it's being making time to have the space to propose wonderings to you all and then at the meetings it's the okay I would like to clarify this or what are we doing to address this but the pre questions are more wonderings like I wonder if
087like I this doesn't make sense to me I wonder if we don't include the zeros like that you know that kind of stuff yes and then I think obviously as we move into a more consistent schedule like for somebody I mean for me personally I got to put if it's not in my calendar doesn't exist so I'm going to have to calendar like doing this and so if things aren't posted with enough time for me to do it it ain't going to happen I'm just going to be real with you and that's going to be the beauty of the calendar because it puts that accountability on both ends that administration's going to know a certain deadline like no butts and ANS or ores this is the deadline we're going to work on it together this
088is why it collaboratively works because then we all in the system have an understanding of this is when we're going to expect this information stuff needs to be uploaded seven days before or whatever the day is I'm just making updates and we all have that consistency and that's going to come back up to our integrity too of what we're allowing others to expect of what we said we would do so that puts all that in into place as well so we're not running you know one day before the board meeting and be like I just got this last night so nobody had an opportunity so not that that happens here I'm just saying that if if it does it avoids all that okay um any other questions comments or wonderings um regarding our student outcomes
089governance framework perfect thank you guys for the discussion I really appreciate it um that brings us to 5A which is our public comments Miss htis do we have any public comments okay thank you that brings us to six which is approval of consent can i p e yes so I move the governing board approve cons Senda agenda item a through D in accordance with policy bb- e second all those in favor I and Miss Gibson McAn you have the floor for item e um I saw your eyes too Amy so I don't know if you have some question to yeah um maybe we'll overlap so um I appreciate that even though this was in the consent agenda that there was like a little presentation to look at um so I appreciate that um and some
090questions I had were one um I I also appreciate I guess the work that the committee did to try to align I know there's a lot going on as far as all this work goes and so who I guess what was kind of the makeup of this committee Whoever has like the answer to that in terms of like roles that people play as far as like um where they're teachers where they're yeah so the the committee was made up of a variety of different roles that Spann um so um Allen who was the chair clearly has a lot of education background and experience um Adriana was on the committee who was a principal shaa who was an assistant principal but in addition to that we did also have um several teachers um and I may
091have to impose on the team to remind me of who some of the other members are yeah well I I I would hate to say yes but we have audiences online and I would like them to hear you I'm sorry do one of those sure everybody has a fair opportunity to be heard sorry there were quite a few of us um there was different schools we had a few regular Ed teachers we had a lot of not a lot we had a couple sped teachers as well um and then we had cja that was a part of our group um as well and then we had some res yeah there was resource teachers from other schools now I know y'all I see the thanks for including the rubric in here um did y'all have a
092chance to I guess look at your final choices and have um students take a look or test some of the like some of the interactive pieces out so the best that I can say do you wan to go ahead I don't believe so I think we had that we used the like kids experience with when they visited for the ruler program um they had talked to kids there uh but we didn't have any of our students look at it Goa um and then just so I'm understanding correctly the way I read this presentation and everything thing was ruler would be adopted one of the challenges to that was that it had this initial framework thing but not supporting lessons and so we're thinking that Harmony would fill that Gap in some way or no yes
093and um this was my part of that little video so apologize for the lack of clarity um so there's kind of two components we were really trying to make sure that we met there was definitely a conversation that teachers just felt like they themselves didn't have the background information in order to meet those needs but but then there was a very loud we need something to do with kids right away to teach them these skills and unfortunately we weren't able to find a program that we thought would meet both of those needs like effectively and in the way that we would hope to do so so what we see ruler being is it does have lessons to it but it's going to really be like a mind frame and a help teachers kind of root
094their classroom in like a Common Language and a common thinking and then there are some supplementary lessons to help support those various elements of that program but in terms of like concretely teaching children the skills that we see that they need Sanford Harmony does that um more thoroughly and with better resources in terms of like range um and also just ability to implement with little um training on it as well and I guess any gaps aside from everything that those two provide is their capacity for whoever is getting trained in this in the Train the trainer or coaches to be able to help with developing things where where gaps exist or help teachers if they feel like they need added instruction that's not well I I I would say that there might be a conversation
095that comes like past me I think when we were talking about it in terms as being an administrator being really thoughtful about who we were going to have be part of our like ruler trainer committee um and making sure that they align to other committees that we already have on our campus like our PBIS committee our Equity committee making sure that there was like overlap so there was like some interdependence between the groups um and then I think that we did acknowledge that Bally there's going to be challenges in maintaining something like this but we would have to be just really creative with the solutions that we were doing in order to help support throughout the year if Fally meaning what exactly I I guess I that could mean a lot of things MoneyWise you
096mean like staff wise or like paying for the actual curriculum or let me can I jump in yeah please yes so there's an initial cost for the implementation of ruler and we've earmarked funds in the remaining of sr3 to pay for that initial purchase the maintenance of ruler is minimal of cost so we believe that it could easily be funded out of an out of one of our other federal grants or potentially another budget Source but it's like a ,000 doar a campus per year for the maintenance which is which is very reasonable um now I know one of the things is a multi-year like it takes for ruler what I saw was an multi-year adoption process and I don't want to talk about like I know this it's we've had all this committee's work
097it's a peeve to switch things but you know after that multi-year adoption process then I guess what timeline are we looking at to like make sure this is something that's working for us I guess we envision that as we flesh out our guard rails we're going to see some guard rails tied to the implementation so we'll know as we discuss over you know within the course of the year whether or not a course correction needs to be made or if this is having the intended effect and it's it it there is an initial cost both in terms of purchase and um you know just the opportunity cost of building capacity within the staff but there's no benefit in continuing to implement something that doesn't work so if we do need to shift and go another
098direction we can do that again um last thing for me for now sorry um under perceived challenges for ruler like the very last bullet point seems like a huge one maybe that's just me in my work experience um but requires a mind shift for staff before impact with students uh I guess in my personal experience when I worked for Portland Public Schools and we rolled out courageous conversation around race that was like literally the hardest part of rolling that out was the Mind shift shift for staff and it ended up being like a districtwide like get on the trainer J off like bye this is where we're going so I know that's a bullet point in the last one on there but what kind of work do we see that's gonna or do we see
099that as like a huge obstacle I guess where are we at with that would it be okay if I jump in on this one and then feel free to correct me because I love f with being corrected um it is so while I I understand that it is listed as requiring that mindset shift I think anything that we would do that would fundamental impact both adult and student behavior and I hate to go back to the word Behavior because it's I know we've been trying to use conduct but there's a reason I'm using that term in this case requires a mind set shift because and and it ironically as a direct correlation back to the sofg work we we started with mindset work because unless we were going to be I was trying to go
100from discipline to conduct remember I know yeah behav F Well Behavior can be all sorts of things but Behavior behavior is often driven by trigger and you know it's used as a blame phrase and that's the reason I'm trying not to go there but but the point is whatever tool set we bring in if the adults don't buy into it and there isn't a shift in the adult behaviors the adult behavior is the modeling for the students and so one of the things I've observed I maybe I've been a keen Observer this year than I have been in Prior years but one of the things that I've observed this year are some very direct correlations between what the adults are doing and when I say adults I don't just mean our teachers and staff and
101superintendent and you know administrators parents that we've interacted with community members that we've interacted with um I'm seeing like the same things mirrored in the students that I'm seeing in the adults so it feels to me like regardless of whether or any other tool set and and I do personally believe that if we set out to do something that doesn't Target supporting our adults we failed in two ways right out of the gate number one our adults need the support so we're failing them we're not giving them what they need and number two if we're not impacting adults and that again going back to the sofg work that parallel process right what I see is what I do what's being modeled for me is is how I am um we're really not going to get
102anywhere so it is going to be the hardest thing and and I I guess one of the questions I'm G to kind of not that I'm trying to push the question back towards you but your example you gave was in Portland Public Schools we were unequivocal this is what we're doing and you can either get on board or you know find someplace else that isn't doing this I'm not saying we're going to throw down with our with our staff but you know it may be a question of superintendent Administration and governing board's willingness to be unequivocal of proba using the wrong word but to to be firm um that this is a non-negotiable this is something we want for the adults in our system and this is something we want for the kids in our
103system because the other thing that I have seen a lot and I had a conversation with somebody about this the other day is school districts Implement things like at an amazing pace and so in doing and they change leadership and the things that are being implemented changes and so we have spent decades training teachers that if you don't like this just wait it out and it will go away and the next thing will come right so Heather's nodding her head because she's I waited many things out yeah exactly so um so we we we need to be you know I think we need to be very firm and clear that this is a direction we're taking and it's something that that we're doing and but that will be the hardest part Because unless the adults
104are on board it'll never make its way to the kids so correct anything I've said in that I won't correct anything you just said but I do want to add I from the very first meeting of this committee members of the committee said are we really going to hold our staff and schools accountable for doing this because none of them wanted to do the hard work if that was not going to be the end product and uh Mr Man and I had multiple conversations ear the course of the Year where I'm like really because really um that's that's so part of that that's even some of the Mind shift too is them realizing this isn't going away I mean part of that starts in hiring conversations and interview yes it does and what what is
105our culture and and how do we behave and how do we treat each other I think one of the most powerful things about ruler for me because I I'd seen a presentation on it I didn't know anything about it the team went and did a and Miss Shapiro went with them and came back with the tool it's coming out of it's coming out of her bag here I think and like she's it's like the I don't know at the following week from the presentation and she's telling me she's using her little tool to let me know where she's at emotionally at a yeah and now I am so I mean she did a tour and came back and was a Believer and her adult Behavior has clearly you know changed and but again to go
106back to sofg student outcomes don't change until a bit change so like we've been doing for a lot of years now um things that were basic building blocks that you'll see in ruler and so I like when we first started doing cell learning at all seven years ago or so like you definitely had people who were like I came to teach math and that's the parents job and so a lot of that groundwork has been kind of created so I don't foresee it to be as great of a challenge because a lot of the components that have been shared too um people just need to kind of assimilate into their current practice as opposed to like breaking it down we we definitely have some people who might be not as far like ahead in their
107practice but for the most part A lot of people this will fit into their practice well I can I sorry I'm going to lose all of the thoughts um I think to something you were saying I think that's where that's this everything that we're doing is ultimately then this board this cabinet the principes assistant principles are being held accountable that they will be supporting and following through and then a year from now we won't just be throwing this all away and I think that's very important going into this to make that shift for everybody and then um going back to your very initial thing of how challenging will this be and there's always going to be outliers but I think we got to this point of having the committee because staff have been asking for
108that consistency that coherence that common language and and the lessons and the tools to teach this so I think we're we're in a place where and going off of what you just shared too like it's not something totally new it's giving more fine refinements structure and materials to really get it across so I think that's an advantage moving into this but we do all have to make a promise that we're not just going to just yeah that's not as important there's a new priority and follow through I get that I think as at the board level though once we adopt a curriculum lots of things are generally out of our hands because that involves day-to-day management from the cabinet and other people and so like this is like why gotta ask these questions now because
109and the culture's been for people to be scared to come here and speak publicly about their experience working in this District uh with certain issues right and so like I just want to know that like whatever we're adopting is going to be okay unless then it's not going to come up again unless it comes up on an agenda or somebody brings it up it'll as Dr dupin said it'll come up because this one's an input that's tied directly to a guard rail totally but I'm assuming we stay on that pathway but um which I hope lots of work but I think two other really important things that the team discovered was that and I think it's in the presentation um ruler is agnostic to a lot of other tool sets so that's powerful because it
110doesn't undo the work we've done for seven years because that was certainly a concern as well if we're taking a 120 degree shift people are going to be like what the heck what are we doing um and then the other one is um to reinforce what um Miss MB said and and and what the team said this was one of this was literally I believe the top concern that came up in the conversation tours when I did them in the fall so it is definitely something that is pretty high on a lot of people's minds as needing to be addressed and so this appears to be the most effective tool set to address um I have a question does this because I was looking at it too and it says that there's online training does
111this come with the coach or is this just like the train train the trainer type of deal there um it's actually there's a whole system and I don't know who's best to yeah so yes so not only is there a coach that help that walks the teams that are going through the training become the trainers for their sites but those the coaches through the company are available to site teams to the district team for as long as we continue to utilize this program there will be coaching support for our for our sites and for the district there is also online training and the beauty of that is if someone comes in Midstream they have the ability to jump into that online training so that's huge yeah do we have any um other questions or comment
112yes um I think this was a great conversation um Mr man just told me yesterday about us kind of switching to this format of having a video presentation um along with a typical PowerPoint presentation inside consent now that's going to be a very very different shift for us and it may look a little less transparent but I think when you and I talked it it it's actually um increasing transparency and making it potentially so much easier for the public to find um a presentation rather than having to like Fast Forward through the board meeting rewind um the video presentation will be embedded in the consent agenda item and I think we just need to get the word out that we're switching to this um format um and I think the presentation was great you guys
113um and it's going to make our board meetings more efficient I think I have seen in the past so much time spent and so much rehearsing for board meetings that as I have said have felt many times like a dog and pony show you know so that is not that's something I so wanted to get away from and I think this is a really good move um but people are just goingon to have to adjust and and start looking at the the um consent items because a lot more things are going to start going into consent and great job Mr man having the team here to be able to answer questions because there still very well may be questions from board members and I think it's nice to have it transparent the way we did
114here tonight and I would love to take credit for that but I want to give it where it's due um I dropped the ball that's just how dedicated these people are that they came to them I feel like we should give credit what credit is due thank you Dr clearly we're all working on our social emotional but I enjoyed it too because it wasn't a not that we don't love the presentations but it wasn't a presentation followed by a million question a discussion and questions it was just discussion and and I know I've been here for a little over a year already but being a spectator for a while I was like dear Lord if I have to there are too many damn presentations that were going on at these meetings and so I can't
115imagine I think this is much more efficient I agree with Amy about and then also just the accessibility for folks later on for sure yeah appreciate you thank you for your the whole commit any other questions or comments before I call the vote okay um I move the governing board approve consent agenda item e in accordance with policy be db- e second all those in favor I I and Hilda I'm gonna go on record and vote no on this and I'll explain my vote um I love the work and everything that's been done I just was when I was going through the information looks like um especially with Castle I believe is the the system that they use do we use Castle already Castle is um sort of a National Standard framework for seal um
116I believe I don't know that ruler has a connection I believe Sanford Harmony is based on Castle am I correct about that so the only thing that I'm looking at is that um a lot of the in a lot of the different things that we've been using this both of these systems kind of already Ed as well and one of the things that I've learned through this sofg framework is that we have to like sometimes really reinvent the whole wheel I appreciate all the work of the Committees and everybody so I'm not I I do believe that there is another option out there it's not my job to come and convince anybody otherwise the work was already done but I in good conscience can't vote Yes on something that I feel that it's almost already
117stuff that has been implemented um in the last seven years and we still have haven't got you know conduct results out of that so I'm just going to personally vote no and I wanted to know everybody why it's not necessarily that I don't think it's going to work that I don't I just good in good conscience can't do it because I I feel like it's just going to be another repetitive thing and I'll let the work do itself and I cannot wait to be proven wrong so I'm just going to put it out there like that so my vote is no all right that brings us to 11a which is the discussion and consideration on membership renewal with the Arizona school boards Association for the 2425 fiscal year for Duce and policy Services um I
118hope that everybody had the opportunity to go over the information it is time to renew our Duce with the Arizona School Board Association um it looks like it's $1 14,934 for our membership and it is $496 for our policy Services um before we decide to take a vote on this I would like to have an honest conversation um about this and we all know that I believe like a few months ago three like two to three months ago I had brought in um I used to be on the board of directors I res resigned from the board of directors because some of stuff that was happening internally but my biggest takeaway was that in the last four years that I've been a board member the Arizona School Board Association has done in my perspective three
119basically three things told me the different buckets of the budget that we have um has taught me what open meeting laws and had to stay away from a conversation with two or more board members around breaking the law and maybe some legal questions on Supreme Court cases that had happen in the past that seemed to be talked about every law conference but other than that like the professional development governance on how to effectively govern none of that was to my perspective um shown to us as a governing board member and as a paying dues member so for me it's um not in best interest to continue with an association that also is in aligned with the framework that we had to just adopted we recently went into this sofg framework since November of last year
120we have had to seek other coaches other Frameworks other City councils relied on other associations and other governing board members and governing boards to finally come together and develop this um framework that has showed us what that we failing our students right I think that's an important role that we have as governing board members and Arizona School Board Association had an opportunity to do a a Statewide governance model for board members so we can all be aligned on how we're increasing our literacy rates through the State of Arizona we all know that we're not the only District that has low proficiency rate and as governing board members I think that's one of our main um roles is what are we doing to you know disrupt the system to make sure that it's helping our students
121um the fact that this Schoolboard Association decided to not even take an interest in a student outcome focused governance framework makes me believe that the vision of the board at the moment is not aligned with Arizona Schoolboard Association at the moment that's just in membership Duce not to mention you know every conference that they have we have to pay for that money we pay for you know Summer Leadership all the SE other different things when it comes to policy Services um I've been asking for a few months what attorney is going over these policy Services because obviously they give us recommendations on statute law what we should change what we shouldn't and what I come to find out is that they're doing contract work with a person who's not a licensed attorney so we're getting
122um opinions that are legal opinions on somebody who's not an attorney and the other attorney that they sometimes hire it doesn't even have any education law experience I think they do like civil litigation and all these other things nothing that has to do with education um policy so therefore renewing policy services with the Arizona School Board Association in my point of view is not effective because we are getting you know advice from people who are not even licensed or experts in education um so with that being said I will leave it up for discussion I don't know how you guys where you guys are at with the Arizona Schoolboard Association or yes I mean we're just having a discussion who is the actual attorney you know yes I can give you that sorry it's okay
123um and mind you I was told by an employee that one of the individuals who is not attorney was in fact an attorney and we've been told this and then come to find out today they're not an attorney so not only are they misrepresenting themselves but whatever anyways um the attorney's name name is Mr Pierce I have a bar number Mr Pierce you just have a first name and how do you spell Pierce Justin Pierce p i e r CE Justin is the first name okay was the other person the other person's name is Martha Taylor who is not okay licensed to practice okay I'm sorry that's okay um I looked her up I think she has licensed she's just a Ed um even better sorry you said Justin Pierce yeah Justin Pierce um while
124she's doing that um do you guys have any comments questions yeah I'll just make a few comments I mean I for me it's always been I I don't I think asb's professional development has been kind of lacking um I just don't think um ideally the board and the superintendent are working collaboratively um you know but then there are times when that's not the situation and asba does not provide any help in what to do in a situation where you're just not you're just not working well together they they like to say they do and then they come you know and we do vision boards for two hours you know um it just it and it's just repetitive every couple years it's the same training um so I've been very frustrated with asba for a while
125um and I I I'm afraid to lose the policy services but it doesn't sound I mean they're kind of in turmoil right now anyways and I do think you know after going to um the Council of great City Schools that's that was a really different conference than any that I had been to before um and that's why one of the reasons that you know I like the idea of this sofg so I mean I think there's it's a it's a a good time for us um to see what else is out there I think Schoolboard Partners is another opportunity you know there's lots of other resources out there clearly so yeah and um thank you for sharing your your perspective and one of the things that I have to recall too is that we're in
126the process of doing our student cond conduct policies I actually had to refer to somebody out of asba to help us when I originated all those policy Services because a I knew they didn't have an attorney back then and second they were just like well what do you want us to do so I had to seek out an attorney in New York and and and go through all our student conduct policy services and if we're going to be giving our money into an association that's supposed to help us develop us that's supposed to help us um help on our policies because there's some policies that need to be cleaned up I mean this is an operating Association for 75 years and not once have they ever helped us you know do student conduct policies every
127time we would call we'll give you a call back or it's just been this back and forth game and one of our one of the things from this framework is that we really need to start aligning our budget and if our budget is not tied to the goals or to associations nonprofits other groups that are not tied into our goals then there's no reason why we should be spending that money do we know how many districts are members of Asa um from the last time I left there's 251 school districts in the state of Arizona um 220 districts used to be part of them and as of recently I think they've lost like 50 different um districts so a considerable number of districts for MoneyWise I guess my question is this one I see how
128the dues are calculated on the annual budget but for the there seems to be a service policy service fee that's calculated on like a monthly rate is that the same for every District the policy Services fee so like every District's paying $5,000 a year policy service depends on how many students you have so lower um enrolled students would have a lower policy rate but it's not that much we're on the low side so other people are paying even more than this for the policy Services correct another weird thing is is that wild to me and I'll just say because one you're producing the same product and copying and pasting it for every District so I know there's not that many billables to add up to this amount I mean that's ridiculous so what are we
129paying especially if we're not utilizing them to ask for things throughout the year it's assuming we're going to ask for like two BBL a month and I highly doubt we're doing that well and when we did we didn't have an answer so yeah um also I've come to realiz that our membership dues are pretty much I mean I'm not from what I've gathered in a few districts we're all paying the same amount membership fee even though some school districts have 10,000 kids less so we're like supplementing big districts with this all well we're supplementing the sorry the rural districts I would assume I mean that's just my perception we're not I don't think we're a big District to begin with so I'm just saying we're subsidizing bigger districts because proportionately we're paying more than they
130are correct Okay and like we said um the discussion today after this conversation would to actually take a vote on whether we want to move forward or not so we can let um the Arizona Schoolboard Association know and then we can venture out and see what is out there there is people like Schoolboard Partners I know of another education Alliance as well that's local so there's other options we we can have those discussions in a future board meeting but I think it's really important for us to really start like I said at the beginning you know we need to start our polic policies need to match what we're saying now what we're saying needs to match our dollars too and it just seems irresponsible to continue giving money to an association that hasn't developed us
131in a in the governance mode that's not really helping us in policy service it sounds like we're always paying extra anyways to get those services that this Association is supposed to offer uh okay so just back to the attorney things I'll be done with this it looks like Taylor or Thomas or whatever her name is she has two last names um is suspended from the bar even if it's just fees related that's troubling if you don't figure out to pay your dues on time um and this is a person that's a vice on policy Services by the way as far as Mr Pierce is concerned when we pay our dues and when we register with the bar we get to self- select all of our like specialty areas and he selected quite a few I
132would saw like several dozen specialty areas none of which had to do with education at all and from his work experience on LinkedIn it's not really looking like that either what I will say is he was in the House of Representatives at one time for four years he also clerked at the Supreme Court and we are elected officials so just in my personal position I'll comment his LinkedIn profile pictures him speaking at CPAC so I'm good um I I just as an attorney I'm not going to take legal advice from people who I don't think are qualified to be giving me legal advice so that's just my two cents um Miss SS do you have anything to add or say yeah oh I want to ask Mr Man um what do you think would be
133I guess something that if we left this that would be like a downfall yeah it's a great question I think um I think the biggest challenge ironically will be to replace the policy Services um and the reason I say ironically is the conversation that was just had around the quality of those of those Services um you know some of some of the recent updates that we've received there's not only been significant flaws on them but um the one we just received which hasn't been shared with the board yet on AI um they were removing the use of the term rks from the policy and what it made me realize is nobody has looked at until AI came around nobody has bothered to look at this policy for decades because that's the only reason that the
134term floppy diss would still remain in that policy sorry I'm just looking at Alan because in the policies we looked at on the committee I mean that was very apparent with some I mean it was entertaining and sad so so there are a couple of other things um in relation to those policies one is there will be a slight cost increase for our use of our board do system because we do currently receive a discount it's a small discount but we receive a discount by being a member of asba um and then in addition to that we will need a place to house policies because the policy Bridge tool set is part of that annual Fe that we pay so it would require some staff time and work to download all the existing policies and
135then move them to another platform um which could be board docs we we would need to price that out are we able to I understand a number of the policies are copywritten is that going to become an issue how much do we have to alter them to not according to the agreement because we've been paying for these policies have right to continue to use them regardless of the fact that they're copywritten some of our policies are not copywritten because from my experience over the years in a couple districts is if you change it you lose the copy so um the copyright seemed to from my again this is anecdotal from experience seemed to drive asb's willingness to be able to support you if there was a lawsuit over the policy itself if it was their
136copywritten version then they might provide support for that if it wasn't their copywritten version then you'd be dependent upon the legal counsel that you've procured in another way and most of the policies we've amended we have the final step in that was getting approval from right from from and and to be honest we typically um particularly recently have needed to go to an attorney to have these looked that because there have been quite a few errors and concerns found in them um in point of fact there was a set that came out I think they technically came out last year it's all blurring together for me but um the former Council that used to be at asba had seen them and sent into asba to let them know that some of the things were Incorrect
137and so then those were then sent out as corrections to all of the districts so so it's it there's it's been a little while that um been of a struggle so it makes sense because a public defender was giving us advice on education policy services but anyways um one thing I do want to bring up on policy service is I also feel like this is a good time um even though we might have a little I mean actually altogether we were going to pay $20,000 um and I know that if we venture out to other places I know Schoolboard Partners if that was even an option they're not even close to that fee so anything that we decide to get out there I believe it's going to be way more cost cost effective for us
138because asba just has this monopolized you know membership and where else are we going to go but we do have different options um part of the sofg framework is this is what why it's a big concern for me too is that we have to do a policy diet one of the things that we've learned through the framework is in order for this to keep executing correctly is that we have to implement it in our policy which is a concern that you had and that is something that we have to do so now I'm sitting here if we have to go through a whole policy diet of our stuff that's going on I can't rely on this Association to help me because in the last four years that's exactly what has happened we've had to go
139elsewhere anyways so as we get closer into this s SOG framework we're really going to need an association that's going to be on board that's an education expert has some expertise and really help us because one of the things we realized as well kind of like data when we get data dumps that's where Whirlwind happens well our policy Services kind to work the same we have thousands and thousands of policies out there in our manual right now that in reality when we're asking questions it becomes this Whirlwind and then nobody knows how to interpret it what's going on you have like 60 different policies for one thing so this policy diet will condense all that will be aligned to our goals to we moving forward and I just don't see how the Arizona Schoolboard Association
140fits in any of that lastly I didn't know if that was your only red FL you I mean there there are there are other things I know that there's um various trainings and supports like I know Hilda's um participated in bolts there's things like summer Leadership um so we participate at those things it would just be at a different price I don't believe so but I don't know can we would just be a higher price it's just at a higher price so even if those we could pick and choose if they yeah so I mean that clearly I didn't know that but that's an option um and you know if we seek other Support Services we may find that there are similar supports that are provided so totally so I mean it really becomes a
141question of what the other options are that are out there and how you know holistic they are um in meeting our needs well that's like because I do feel like I agree the last few years going to things I've been less than impressed by the um offerings of the conferences um and kind of felt that repetitiveness I do feel it was really impactful at the beginning I think getting the new Schoolboard training was really helpful but that's because we were new Schoolboard members um but I also looking back I'm like again is that something we could get elsewhere is that something we could create is that you know um is it is it are there pieces of it that could come out of sofg um and I I was hoping that asba would turn things
142around but I'm feeling more and more like every email I get from them it's just more of the same and vague or incorrect things or corrections to things and I'm like I the only other thing I would say is as the session comes to a close the legislative session I would just want us to have a plan to have a pol to have a policy update to on at the beginning of the next year yeah I think our options need to be presented and I think we have some options out there it's just going to be up to us to decide which one's going to be better and I do feel that the options that are out there do meet all the needs that we kind of need um I'm super familiarized with Schoolboard partners
143because I was part of their cohort and I know that they do a lot of things right so that's discussions that we can have but I I really don't see how we can just move forward with all the things that have been happening and how we're moving forward and also part of sofg framework is a school board to school which is what they call it So eventually once we get to the point where we have a rooll ball going um that actually gets created within within us and it's almost like us as Schoolboard members are training the next Schoolboard members that are going to come so even that within oursel we're going to be formatting something that looks like that within the framework ourselves with no support that's coming from this Association as well and
144I know those are new things but it is in the framework where eventually a School Board of School comes out out of each district that runs this because now you're empowering your community to take over and lead the way for the next Generations to come but that's just a side note but there is something within embedded within the framework I did have one just quick question and this is like everything else aside do we know how much of a discount we get from board docs I I don't have that off the top of my head like just if we were looking number by number like would we pay $220,000 more okay discount is it one of those like 5% probably those like you know when like I get a discount through the Arizona State Bar
145for things we get that through the number it's like some nominal yeah I I it my suspicion is it's nominal I don't have I don't have the actual number so I don't want to speculate as to what it is um but I know in a conversation this morning um it came up that you know we we actually had the tool before the discount was offered so we you know we started to benefit from the discount when the partnership was formed between asba and board Docks but we purchased it prior to having that discount so clearly it wasn't unaffordable to us prior to the discount coming and and we didn't jump on board because of the discount unless Hilda tells me I'm wrong but that's my recollection you know when she was asking that question I
146saw Vanessa looking at Hilda I was like Hilda has the answer um and also if it's makes any sense I I was talking to a board member I believe it's in Denver I can't believe I can't remember where but they actually have their policy service embedded within board dos so I know that that's something that can be done and actually when he told me that I was like that makes more sense because people are looking at our agenda already our meetings and if we can upload our policy Services then it just makes more sense so that I I believe that's an option to that we can we just need to get more clarifying questions and if I'm understanding correctly if we decide to vote no tonight our contract ends on June 30th correct so we
147would need to have whatever tool sets we need to have in play have our policy migrated um and then you know be ready to go July one okay under whatever the new mon is that feasible for the people who actually have to do the work well we will need to pay some people to do the work because the the people that are already doing the other work beyond their capacity at the moment um and so we would need to bring probably in someone for some additional contract time or something like that in order to do it so it wouldn't be you know horribly expensive but it it would be a cost that we would incur to do that migration the migration is only going to have to happen once yeah I'm sorry what was migration
148is only going to have to happen once correct no I just wanted to make sure that by if we end up voting no that we are not than causing horrible like stress and everything you know I don't believe so um we don't know what we don't know so we haven't tried to do it yet so we could it look problem when you go to the policies link from bardocks it looks like it that tab is like linked to the asba site so once we get it migrated to whatever platform we're hosting it on that link just has to be changed yeah well and I wonder thought that should be very interesting is if we can embed it then the search feature will actually work yeah and I wonder typically when you do my I mean
149I've only done migrations with websites but typically when you do that they have people on Sports so I wonder if we do move forward with doing the policy on board docs if they have a team and we just pay additional fee for them to do the migration for us if they offer that we would gladly typically how it works I can't speak for board doc specifically but and I'm assuming they have something like that too because like I'm telling you that other board memb something happened with their Association too and they did this like years ago and he's not even on the board no more but they were able to do it and I think I'm not sure how that worked but I know it's possible um do we have any other questions comments concerns
150okay so I'm going to put out the recommendation which says I move the governing board approve renewal with the Arizona school boards Association for the 2024 25 fiscal year for dece I mean we can vote no that's just how it's written oh okay I was like motion yeah okay I mean you can make the other motion too I know but it's already recommended I was confused okay yeah yeah what would it would just be easier if we just you is okay I move the governing board approve renewal with the Arizona school boards Association for the 2024 25 fiscal year for Duce and policy Services second well that's the thing is if you can't even get a second then we got to reward it because nobody wants to support the motion okay so hearing no second
151motion dies I will go ahead and bring up a new motion I move the governing board approve appr the discontinuance with the Arizona school boards Association for the 2024 25 fiscal year for dues and policy Services second all those in favor and I'm going to do a roll call Miss Gibson McLean I miss SS hi myself I miss MC cheffrey oops Miss MB I'm sorry I and Miss MC cheffrey I motion passes so now is what we're going to have to do is start working on Schoolboard partners and seeing because is that what you're offering Miss mcaffrey sorry um is that what you're offering um to for us to look into as the Schoolboard Partners I mean I think yeah um I don't know that they would be able to do policy Services because they're
152not based in Arizona but I mean I think they um uh professional development is great um I think that's a a really good one to look into yeah okay so um I guess we can direct our superintendent to see if we can get information on the school board Partners to see if they have and there is another education alliance called Copper State education Alliance that will be providing um similar services and we can have a presentation however that looks like for you guys um but they're local and they do have policy service and they have legal services and they have all the above so I think that's another um option that we can look at and if you guys have any other questions or any other suggestions if you can just send them in an
153email because I think by next month we're going to have to make a decision before July 1 say just looking at the feasibility for the sake of time of looking into board docs for at least now moving policy over to board Docs and how much the fee would be how much it would be and if they have staff who can handle the migration and then that's more urgent than professional development at this point we should be able to have that information for June 4th and what we can do is bring a table of some of the other options for policy services and then that way the board can make a selection from the available offerings because I think from a procurement perspective and correct me if I'm wrong Miss Shapiro or this type of thing
154I don't know that there's like a bid process or anything like just depends um what the threshold uh hits for the policy services and there may be um opportunity in there there there could be entities that just do policy services and don't offer those that's what I was wondering board services so that there there might be multiple uh vendors that we're looking at and um if all else fails you know my concern would be getting um agreements or procurement in place right up on that June 30th deadline I I think we would have other options uh not something that's super viable but I have seen policies posted on District websites uh just for reference they're not very searchable they're not very friendly they're not easy to upkeep um so you know I would want to
155recommend a service for that for that purpose but I think that um because of bumping into that June 30th deadline we may not be able to have something um in place but we will work very hard to try and if not we would have an option uh just for a temporary piece while we work it out that was gonna be my question uploads hundreds of pages of a PDF right and we have seen other districts that are using board docs uh with the policy where as you said you have the drop down it goes straight into again kind of limited on the the searching as what I found I found some other vendors that seem to be a little better with searching so you know the searching is is very helpful and I think that's
156where like we just need to my direction would be prioritize what needs to be done here in the next month versus what do we really need to explore so that whatever the next step is whether it's two places providing two different things or whatever or one place that can provide it all we want to make sure it's the right fit so only other thing when we're reaching out to those folks is not only this June 30th deadline but also to do our Gap if whatever we have to do to just get our policy updates for the upcoming school year from this session even if it can't be those vendors if there's somebody we can contract on a onetime basis or something and then back to schoolb Partners um I agree professional de development takes a
157second um seat to the policy stuff yeah um important it's just yeah but if we do a presentation from the uh Copper State Alliance um it would be great to hear from Carrie and Ethan to even if it's on a zoom or something um just about their philosophy what it is that they do that they think is different than like nsba um and also we did approve a bunch of conferences tonight um but not um Schoolboard Partners conference they have a conference or two throughout the year too that would be a good way for the board to kind of get to know their philosophies and I mean I I think our philosophies kind of gel with the their thinking as well so you might want to add that on as an option yeah and what
158we brought tonight wasn't a limiter it was kind of trying to move towards bringing more bulk approvals of those things so um it doesn't prevent us from bringing either another bulk approval or an individual y great thank you for that um any other comments or questions all right that moves us to our next agenda item which is 12a future agenda items do we have any future agenda items I just wanted to make a comment that I did add one um via email a few weeks ago that is um I just wanted to point it out to board members and to the general public um an update on policy gbk staff grievances um I think as we have all heard we have had some staff grievances the past couple of years that um we're having a
159hard time getting um resolution from or even filing agreements and there's confusion between what a complaint is and what a grievance is and what the process is for both and it is causing um staff recruitment issues um and and uh retention issues we're losing staff um because of it I think and and the frustration of the fact that grievances are so difficult and complaints are so difficult and staff feels like they're facing retaliation so that conversation I would like to live in that um agenda item you know regarding some of the comments we we heard in the last month or so from some teachers and um you know staff within special ed and all of that so um Mr Man do you know when we would be able to have an estimated time to speak
160about jbk because I do feel like it's been on the future agenda for a minute um I will I know it was something that um Miss Sanchez was helping us with so I will check back with her on timeline with that I think one of the I think we've been the creator of a lot of the challenges because we keep inserting new things and then prioritizing them so um and I know one of the big things that she has on her plate right now are all the draft policies from our conduct committee so um what I will I'll check in with her and see you know how quickly we can get that cycled through I know she's cleared a lot of the backlog with us over the course of the last week so hopefully we
161can get to that pretty quickly um that's fine thank you and then if I could also point out I think that last bullet can come off I was about to I was about to say that yes I believe so too because ruler kind of took care of that and I I think Mr Man you had told me we do have one of the things we wanted to do was have a place on the website where it was clear where you could file a complaint or a grievance and that does exist but the website's being revamped so you can't see that at the moment yep it's it's on the new so we've had to migrate um to final site to final yeah you're living this reality as well so um so in that Migra once the
162migration is complete then we will have that staff grievance um actually it wouldn't be just staff grievance it's complaint grievance all that yeah so I was just hoping that as a board and and um cabinet we could just kind of discuss where we are with all of that and like just in layman's terms like how does it work to file a complaint or a grievance and then what can people expect after that happens you know and and I think there's some other work that we will have ahead of us next year that will also help with us I can share about that as well when we get there we kind of we kind of chicken and egged something from my perspective this year and so we rushed something forward that probably could have waited a
163year but what we left behind would have really helped with us so um doesn't make a difference now we flip forward and then hopefully we can work on that other component this next year in order to be able to help with that so can someone remind me roughly CB CBA CBI what are those pertaining to oh those were um the superintendent evals and the only reason why we still leaving it there it's just because we're waiting to tie it in the framework has it so it's just a reminder that we're going to do it once we get to that point what about the following ones just roughly what those were gcba GCF I think those tie in as well okay well I was gonna say just for you know thought moving forward on agenda's sakes
164um I know that something this is something Miss Sanchez is looking at gbk I think it's definitely something that if our com committees were to continue doing work and we with staff policies as well as that was being run of the requests um I believe that that policy could definitely come up in that committee as well as um discussion about employee handbooks or you know I think that there's room for some of the ad hoc work to take on some of these things as well well I was going to ask to take the employee handbooks off because I think it's been addressed oh yeah so that was the piece I was referring to as chicken and egg okay so we did not end up with an employee h book but we do have a um
165professional agreement professional agreement right I I feel like we still need an employee handbook because that's where things like um payroll schedule lives and like in districts I've been in when there's an employee handbook that's where all the complaint and grievance policies are stored for quick access for employees and staff and then when employees and staff go through their orientation um when they meet with human resources that's one of the tool sets that they're provided and then it's updated annually um it and we do not have one we currently unless I'm wrong but it doesn't live within the work that you that the committee just finished I did not like you guys don't have grievances in there there is grievances in and the process of the Grievances and you know what get on to us
166yeah you guys discussing too much of this because we're not posted for it so I guess thank you what I was just saying was for those things they could be something that could be worked out in a hoc and ad hoc if we did a new motion at a future meeting and put that as an agenda item we could then flush out the guidance and direction of those committees and the timeline for those which could be longer than a school year depending on what we decide so I think you know aside from the sup vals and those two things the only other thing I was going to also mention is at some point in the future my thing could come up and just for transparency sake I have spoken to Vanessa and Jay about opening
167campuses after hours outside of the meetings and so um they had asked for some clarification for me on what I was looking for and I know that we have some followup to do but um it is something that could come up I don't know that it's quite ready to come up anytime soon okay yeah that's fine working with a local partner as well to try to get some movement on that so okay awesome any other future agenda items or discussion okay that brings us to 13A I move the governing board adjourn all those in favor I I thank you very much W noes right