001e I'm calling this meeting to order March 19th 2024 governing board advisory committee to review policies um first order of bsiness business is we'll call to the order we already did that uh Second order of business is an approval of the agenda can I get a motion to approve the agenda please any a second all those in favor I motion passes agenda item number three this is a call to the audience do we have any calls to the audience okay moving on to agenda item number four this is discussion on the policies that we have undertaken so far the last time that we were here we finished JK and J I ca and j i a r a and Our intention was to work on jld DB then finish JK and then start working into
002jic and jic KR so that's where we're at for right now um I would like to uh take a little brief pause just to kind of throw it out there um don't have to really just kind of turn it around in your head um there were uh and I don't know if it's not appropriate for this body to even discuss it please let me know but there were two things that came up and um I was wondering if they were related to these policies or if they weren't and um the first one was uh connected to uh specifically policy um when it comes to discipline on um uh hate speech and racism um those are two items that come up on a regular basis and I know uh it's a discussion within the assistant principles
003on how to approach that from a progressive discipline standpoint um restorative practices are pretty easy well not easy but a little bit more um there's a little bit more of a practice in place to address those things uh for that process but I'm unaware and I and I feel like if there isn't a policy that's connected to that I feel like there should be um and I was just curious what other people think I think that it would make sense to have a policy I I think though when we were at we had wasn't there already a section that talked about whether or not we were going to do that I think in the very first one we did so I don't know if we want to go back and flesh it out was there
004because when I looked up a policy on on that those particular key words there was not much of anything there that I could see only thing I could see was uh dress when it was connected to wearing a shirt that had a racist Mark remark or something hate speech related on it but other than that I did not see a single policy that was connected towards hate speech and or racism um I mean we have when we did things like students who impact others negatively or break the community agreement of the district May face corrective Endor disting actions that are logical equital proportional Progressive right um to me that reads you have cart blanch to discipline students that like participate in hate speech or like racist comments right I think that I don't I don't
005necessarily see a reason we need that specifically spelled out because what would we say other than hate speech is not allowed which I think that's pretty clear for any of our community agreements or school rules like I don't think we have a school where so I I think for at least from the discipline side of things for assistant president principles it's sometimes an awkward uh not an awkward conversation but it's an awkward way to approach discipline um when you're trying to differentiate on uh The Matrix and uh if you don't have policy guiding you um it is difficult to approach it because uh it the conversation is hard to separate um uh sometimes hate speech and inappropriate language is it one is it the other um I've heard the phrase used if it's uh not
006directed at a person but it's just said out loud that that is one approach and if it's directed at a person it becomes something more uh indepth and it's just it it it it's a I see it as a problem I know other assistant principles see it as a problem and I think sometimes it's not always clear on how you approach the progressive discipline side so so I have a couple thoughts you like beat me to it because that's what I was saying it's like in our student rights that we had it um it I guess it would make most sense in JK um but my Wonder is if we should T like table it and add it as like discussion so that way we can get through what we know for sure we have
007perview on um because I do agree that it is challenging um to determine what we're doing like uh we we for instance say like hate speech is hate speech and it's just like the delineation of the consequence but we do have that separate from inappropriate language in terms of like the violations that we give so there is probably things that we need to parcel out for them I just don't know and I know there's a I think it's Peoria if I'm not mist mistaken there was a district that was being investigated by the federal government I want to say 2020 2021 or something like that uh specifically around how they approached uh hate speech and uh racism in general I think um I'm gonna because we just had our our meeting about this today um
008in regards of the the board and superintendent and the student outcomes focused governance that that we're doing um so one of the guard rails for our board is the board will not operate without an annual self-evaluation of strengths and weaknesses and a plan for t team building and board professional development that includes anti-racist training so I know um as of late you know like the focus on on equity and um anti-racism like is has been kind of a uh a focus um and I think it's important to put out there I just that in this District you know I think I think maybe that's one way to to kind of embrace that and like somehow spelling that out I don't know I don't know what we could put in policy that would make it easier
009for the aps like I'm looking at this Poria thing for example and these are some things that this the Poria School District allegedly did not respond to race based slurs such as the n-word um mimicking H Hitler salutes drawing swastikas on photos of students faces um a lot of very racist things about black people that I don't really want to repeat right I I would hope that if any of these things came across our desk their desk our APS wouldn't be like well is this inappropriate language or is this hate speech yeah like I don't know what I could put in policy that would make that clearer you know what I mean like I like yes we could have something in policy that's like hate speech is not allowed and not tolerated but I'm not
010really sure how that would actually help with the actual process of it administra discipline what if we what if we do this as a compromise volun tell you guys thr I know this isn't the appropriate place for I just think it's not I don't think it's appropriate time I don't think that we are ready for it but I'm wondering if we can volunteer the aps sorry APS um when you guys meet uh on Thursday if you guys could just like bullet point like what would be helpful to have in policy and then we could maybe consider including it where it says regulating off-campus speech maybe it's like regulating speech off- campus on campus and we could delineate it that way no that's a good idea policy is meant to provide parameters for the functioning of
011the district and like our student discipline policy starts with the superintendent shall create procedures for discipline yeah I mean not quite wor but that's basically what it is and the rest of this is to provide some parameters to that so unless we're feeling like we need to Define certain terms under certain conditions to equate to hate speech which my concern with that it takes away the ability for individual situations and circumstances to be taken into account because there are lots of things that could be that I'm just concerned about yeah putting such a a policy based restriction on on procedures when what we've been doing is trying to right make it so that there's actually more breathing room for them to actually be more thoughtful about what the situation Act is in that given moment
012instead of instead Pol instead of from a policy perspective dictating something I mean an example I can think of is like if you have a school where staff and students feel like racist comments or racism is is has become like a endemic problem your discipline policy is going to be probably be a lot stricter and a lot more heavy be handed than a school where there's extremely few instances of racist language and one kid says something that is ignorant or you know minorly racist right and it's a oneoff thing that happens rarely right that's not necessarily reflective of our schools um but I think I agree with Al I think this is just something they gotta figure out I don't really know that if the aps can come up with something they want that' be
013nice but so I I for me like you cited some of the extreme and to me black or white examples I and I agree with you those are pretty straightforward um I've had conversations with students where they have uh things that at least in their mind U not in my mind but in their mind has gray to it um for example uh I know that uh some students they like it's not uncommon in so in certain cultures where you have nicknames right um chongo Goro things like that and those are Terms of Endearment you know those are things that people don't take seriously they're all in good fun and sometimes that transfers over to other types of things which in my mind are boring on Races but in the minds of parents and kids they're
014not um black monkey um stuff like that uh brownie uh these are terms that like they call each other and uh they're like that's my buddy that's my friend you know and they have those kinds of things and it's just I think that the the greyness of it is where it becomes a little bit more challenging on how to educate and how to approach with Progressive discipline is that is that something that should be Progressive discipline is that something that should be restorative like I said maybe it doesn't live here I don't know um but it's it's definitely in terms of consistency um it would it would definitely be helpful for me if I was had a little bit of guidance and maybe that's where it lives the only I can think is maybe in
015our student rights what we do say you can't whatever that part so I you you said you mentioned James tonight we're we're supposed to talk about jic and jikr right as well as the re the um um restraint and seclusion policy which you think I remember which that one but anyway um ironically I mean GIC is student bullying harassment intimidation like maybe we can we can have this thought in mind as we're going through that and because that policy might actually address it already I don't know maybe because honestly I just actually I just created a copy of that of that policy in our folder because it there wasn't one in there so I know I haven't read this policy that that J policy yet so yeah and I know in the behavior Matrix that
016the way Progressive discipline works with inappropriate language is very different in terms of consequences than um stuff that is under the category of harassment intimidation B start at completely different levels and the progressive discipline is much more extreme and you know some people might say it fits here some people might say it fits there I guess it's I don't know maybe maybe it's maybe it lives somewhere else I just like to bring it up anyhow Okie do jld DB is what we're supposed to be starting with restraint and seclusion all right I'm just going to take over the microphone since I did most the coming so the first thing is I didn't do any changes directly into the text because every except for the words that I indicate I added everything that's in here is
017word for word out of revised statutes this isn't it was never actually written as a policy it was literally a copy and paste of what's an ARS which makes no sense whatsoever for writing a writing it as a policy so some of the word changes I'm suggesting are to like make it less revised statutes and more policy sounding so I suggested starting with as we um have in others I'm adding that opening couple of sentences just to again this is about right policy is about guiding the superintendent on establishing regulation so so that you added that I added those that first two sentences yes thank you good to me um on all the rest of these I added the numbers one two three just to help break it down because of the way I wrote
018that first part so um I didn't see anything I didn't have a problem with anything on number one again um so the people who are listening out there and in um um on YouTube um I'm I'm speaking as I'm sharing my thinking I oversee and I'm and the lead trainer for the district on on restraint restraint procedures so that's so that's kind of the mindset that I have as I'm going through this is um anyway so um number two um I just want like to again because it's like a school May permit which is out of the law and so I just wanted to suggest changing that to the wording that I have in the note which is that should read the use of restrainer seclusion techniques on any people may only occur if both
019of the following apply okay thanks we'll TI team our way through this um and then moving into three so in number number three we're talking about um so some some parameters on restrainer inclusion um and again some of this is just word is wording changes because it's changing it from law regulation F State regulation to policy oh yeah absolutely I mean I don't that we change it much because it's literally the law we're looking at just a or all the letters a under number three let's goes through e though I know but before I talk she's say before I talking about why I wanted to change the wording on C are you guys okay with the wording on A and B yes so that we're just kind of flowing okay yep we're all good and
020again for C I'm changing the word school to dist because it really isn't because it's it could School Personnel implies something but like I'm a district I don't work at a school I work for the district and so theoretically right um and then I added the last sentence um so um in an older version of the revised statutes there it did require annual training the revised statutes in Arizona no longer require annual training and I will tell you that as as a policy I think it just makes sense for us to require that that during the course of that the school and I wrote it the way I did because it's not necessarily on day one but at some point that they're getting that training and some people get their train a refresher training later
021on in the year so we can kind of balance out the calendar things like that so are we good with the added text on on C so is that is that your is that still saying that they only need to be trained once or is that at least once during the school year that's my question yeah it is every school year it is every school year oh I don't know that that's clear just says once during the school year change each school year yeah I think that's appropriate it's all good um Adriana you're this on D is your note uh I just appreciate that it talked like specifically about um the students's ability to breathe and I know again I was also going off NCI and the CPI all that stuff and we talk about
022we no longer do like the prone like neon back so I just wanted to see do we want to clearly delineate like you're not doing a hold that was off yeah and I appreciate that and I thought about that when I was reading it as well CPI which because that's currently the version of of restraint restraint training and practices that we use as a district um there is actually an advanced hold which is a prone hold but it does not include anything being on their back or their torso as a part of that um we don't train any we don't currently train anybody in that process none of the trainers in the district are trained to train it um so it's it's a moot point however if at any point in the future we felt
023there was a need for a particular program or whatever to have that level of training I would hate for us to be po blocked by policy from being able to provide okay a you know but right now there's nobody who'd be able to do that do the that kind of resar well that's why kind of I was like if you can't do it should we put it in there but you're right if we have other time I'm kind of indifferent an example of a time where whole could be useful I mean I'll say in the five years that I've been doing holds um I've never needed to do it like I've never felt like we were at that point the holds that we've been certified to do um have sufficed I feel like I'm almost
024feeling like if there's a prone hold at this point you would end up calling outside assistance well perhaps that's a whole different yeah yeah and that's a whole different piece in here but theoretically yes but I I would probably be think I'm thinking about the potential maybe in Our Stars program our emotionally disabled kids who tend to but even they really overall don't need to use that they barely they don't know they don't they don't necessarily even do restraints as much as people might think that they do much less needing to do a PR restraint I don't at this point we don't we have not seen a need in the district to introduce that training which is why we haven't done it so um there's limitations even on the Phoenix Police Department's operation orders for
025pro restraints um so there's certain ones that they can do but especially not a Peron kateed restraint where you're like holding someone down and have your you know arm around their neck or pushing down on their neck um but also most of the time what they do is like a kneeling on the back or buttocks and holding like the arms basically but even then those are like I try to attack them for those things not really looked and current currently seems like in this day and time especially over the last couple of years or so that just seems like a really bad idea all around good thing I I I don't disagree I don't disagree here's here's where I I there are other pieces of the law and we RI and we talked about this
026in in the student discipline policy and put it on hold because we wanted to do this one first that speaks to any staff member has the legal authority to use the minimal amount of force needed to ensure safety and when you're and when you've got an untrained staff member who like like this is life or death we don't have a choice until somebody who's trained can get there things can go wrong and um and you could I mean even as a trained person like you sometimes got a kid that we all end up on the floor um and you want to make sure you're thoughtful about we can't be prone we can't be do you know and if we end up prone we need to make sure we're thoughtful about getting out of that yeah
027it's just you're not get pin right and we don't want to pin them more importantly um sorry open to Candle worms I'm open to either thing no I no but I mean the reality is most people in our district who are not trained don't think about and don't necessarily do this stuff and so they're fair questions so I mean my just my my gut instinct is just to say no that's not something that's okay and if there's some need later on the policy could be revised I'm trying to imagine I need that's that's my takeway what do you think I mean the way it's written do okay I mean obviously you want kids not breathing so the other thing about D I'm sorry because I'm now rereading d as it's written because it says restraint
028technique imployed may not imped the pupil's ability to breath and the truth is that actually the team control position which is one of the positions we do train it has it could it potentially has this I mean it has the student bent over and is a part of that physical control and it could theoretically um start to impede their ability to breathe which is why it's so important that we have somebody paying attention to that and watching for that um in terms of safety so which is different than the prone restraint I'm wondering if if if to try to like compromise for all of them the cor I can't remember cored pose like basically anything that's like neck based is not allowed well but yeah because what's written here because when you're in that um
029when you're in that when you're in that bend over position right it actually can restrict breathing because of the diaphragm is can be restricted um so I will say for that one though that one has been one that we've like needed to use just to like calm down a kid so you know because like the prone one we don't ever use it we're not certified to use it so it makes sense like just don't put that in there because it's it's a moot point but the team control I have seen used in the past soit is what's there now for 3D was that what was there that's what's there and I just put a question do we want to put Pro in position and I got rid of it but do you want to just
030so you were considering your suggestion was to add that I did think that we could add it but but I did not think about future if there was like a need to have it before I was just like well we don't do that either so maybe we include it do you feel like there's a need to add it to add the to add not using a prary train yeah I just felt like I don't know I you're right like we don't train people on it so why would they use it I just also when reading this I was like well yeah you're definitely not doing that and you're definitely not doing a prone one so I just think we we were giving Behavior talks to kids and that oftentimes when a kid is in trouble
031their response is I'm not saying adults or kids but it's it's an analogy they're like well I didn't know you didn't tell me I couldn't do this and I just extrapolate that argument out you know maybe there's someone that would think that something like that is okay well except so in and I know you haven't been through the trainers but but I mean but in the training when we're when we're teaching the restraints or we we're doing our annual like we talk about like when you're in any of these holds if if the child goes ends up going down to the floor you you safely guide them down in whatever hold you're in and then as soon as they're safely on the floor you let go and you back away and you're no longer in
032any no physical intervention happening at all on it once they're on the floor so that's part of what we train so we do explicitly train them that they're not allowed to be in physically intervening with a child once when the child's on the floor so this prone pose is that Pro means the child would be laying flat on the ground is that what is that normally used like for like in group hes or what probably is that something that's like a law that we can't use it or just our district has decided we don't as a district we've not found a need to to to present to preent present that training so we've never had anybody GO train in the case of you know say years down the line there's a different militant superintendent and
033board and they decide to use prone if as right now as parents and teachers and principal if we want to make sure that does not become a thing and we could throw prone in there well if I mean we had a militon board and superintendent to change the policy yeah they might not know it's in there for a while but I think I think intuitively if a kid's prone if they're lying flat on the ground you don't need to restrain them they've effectively restrained themselves um I think it's very common in popular media and policing that people are held down on the ground right yeah so I think that's where a lot of that comes that's a lot of people's Inn to hold kids down sometimes but I think our policy islin pretty clearly that
034if you are trained to do holds you are not trained to do that you are not trained to do holds you can do whatever you feel like you need to do to make the situation safe until someone shows up which realistically if a kid's like throwing pencils like I don't know any teachers that are going to run in and body slam a kid and do a hold on and if they do then yeah I think policy's already pretty clear on that not being an immediate threat to Danger so yeah and I mean if you've got an incident and you're in the moment you're not going to run through all of them in your head you're going to go for whatever movement you're not going to go check policy best position to do right so I
035think the policy is fine I yeah the vast I mean every situation I've ever heard of um actually in any District I've worked in when when staff untrained staff do feel the need to do something physical in order to ensure safety they're usually doing the very minimal amount of whatever they can figure out how to do because they don't want to do it right in fact most people who are trained don't actually want to do the stuff they're trained to do so and I imagine also I'm all of my experiences are informed by working in a high school and I had many kids who were like six2 players which is a whole different ball game when you're like this classroom stays safe right now correct how about we get you in the hallway instead of
036you throwing that entire table across the room yeah yeah all right are we good to move on um and then actually e interestingly enough even though there wasn't a comment actually kind of goes to what I was just saying about people don't actually want to do more than they need to do typically anyway um on four and five both of those are just recommended changes that again it's taking the language that was statute and making it sound like policy so you can read those two notes and real quick I have a question about seclusion yeah like put them in the room by themselves there's a there's a definition somewhere coming up um for that we so we'll to that probably be easier for me to answer questions about that once you've read read that are
037we good with the Chang to four and the change to five yeah I saw earlier are you guys good it wasn't wasn't I mean it's not I don't think it was dramatic rewarding just for example chair I would take the class outside and close the door the like yeah and then but then or like if we have to like if they're going to have like a witness statement because they're in we might have them in like a on their own technically they've been secluded oh so 3A so School Personnel shall maintain continuous visual observation so I'm just wondering if yeah frankly it's unwise to close a room for the kid inside there's no window much for um on I'm sorry you you guys are welcome to then read a b and c under number five
038and if there's anything anybody wants to do with that honestly all of this it feels like these revised statutes were literally written based on the training that we the training system that we already use as a district uhuh it's one of the most common ones in the country yeah that isn't okay um so I'm after the paragraph that comes in after number six so this is referring back to it's like a repetition of those two PA those things that we talked about in the other policy um because this is actually not this is actually just referencing that General anybody can do that that's what 15843 is is that anybody can use use that minimal amount of physical force needed to ensure safety until um I think it's necessary here because restraint is physical Force right
039I think it's a good reference to have and seclusion can also be in some situations a demonstration of physical Force if I have to close a door on a kid right I thought of this more that like this is talking about when a crime is being committed self-defense defense of others and defense of property because you can only use those in defense of a crime because the idea would be it's an affirmative defense therefore if you're doing it and nobody's actually committing a crime you're actually committing a crime yourself so um the way I'm reading that is like there are instances I'm where students can be committing an offense like this right and you are entitled to use physical Force to stop them from committing a crime and I think that's what this is getting
040at yeah and and I'm fine with leaving that paragraph I just wasn't sure to do with it so um hold on I'm just going to 15843 really quick I think it's I think this is useful I mean I've reference this with teachers as like a union rep where you know you'll get teachers who kind of are a little exasperated and they'll be like so if a kid's like throwing things at me I can't do anything about that and it's like no and I referenced this language specifically to say there are things that you can and probably should do if you feel like you're in danger or other kids are in danger right just because you're not CBI trained doesn't mean you just have to throw your hands up and get hit in the face right
041yeah the only thing that like what we talked about in the other one was like the defens of property thing for me yeah it's a little don't touch my pencil yeah that one's just the gray area I feel like well and defense of property would not be a circumstance under which we would be training people to use um restraint yeah which I feel comfortable removing that in this section because there is is about restraint right okay so you're S Suggest I'm suggesting getting that rid of that so rephrasing it to uh in self-defense and defense of others yeah um let me see just really quick too since we're on this it does feel weird because when I read it I think it's kind of letting kids it's basically letting parents and kids know like hey
042we are going to allow our teachers to defend themselves and others and that doesn't feel like belongs here yeah like in the other one is it this one feels student specific I just don't know if the other one is I think the other one if it covers everything then I guess we don't need it here but M I just thought this was like making it clear that this can be used with this can apply to students who are committing a crime that could put possibly be putting other students or other people in physical danger is what I was thinking yeah and I don't know what 15843 I mean I looked 15843 is the pupil disciplinary proceedings so basically it says the governing board and consultation with teachers parents or School District shall prescribe rules for
043the discipline suspension and expulsion of pupils the rules shall be consistent with the constitutional rights of pupils and shall include at lease the following one of those subsections is procedures for the reasonable use of physical Force by certified or classified Personnel in self-defense defense of others and defense of property um but if we already have it in another section then yeah if it's redund yeah that's fair actually well and maybe and we may want to go back and just compare back and forth and one thing I would add for whatever one it just stays in if it gets Del lead out of this one but if we want to add it to the glossery I think we should Define physical Force self-defense and defense of others in the glossery wherever that yeah I'll find it
044and there's statutory definitions for that too okay so just leave it there for right now and I'm going to put a comment and all right so moving pass that for now um then then we have a couple definitions we have a definition of Restraint of what restraint includes or doesn't include the definition of restraint again this comes straight out of the revised statutes it does include both like phys like a staff member physically holding a a student um that's what physical force would be in terms of what's here for restraint it also talks about Mechanical Devices we don't train on the use of mechanical devices and don't use Mechanical Devices um as restraint procedures in this District um sorry what are those what would be an example like a taser like a table where you'd
045like shackle someone oh like a four okay I don't know because I've never wanted to bother exploring that I'm like I don't want to know there are yes I'm G to stop being trainer if we what are your what you're thinking of um Daniel is correct there are tables that you can restrain people to and tie like shackle their leg and hands in like an X kind of position right I in other countries use those things that are like prongs on like sticks that you like just pin people to walls with well this happens in the marova county J and the marova county like or the Arizona State Hospital yeah be totally okay with taking the or Mechanical Devices out of this as a definition if you have mental health issues there you could land
046yourself in one of those beds oh okay yeah I think take it out assuming maybe also I don't know a straight jacket could probably be a mechanical device yeah and yeah that is true but we also don't train for that kind of no huh it's a deescalation tool but it's not rest strengths and in weighted so we've got this restraint but then if you then start reading numbers one through whatever underneath that these are the exceptions and so that would be me devic Implement by trained School Personnel or used by people for specific and approve therapeutic or safety purpose so like a weighted vest is something that is therapeutic in nature um we would want an occupational therapist to have given very clear directions on when it can and when it can't and how much
047weight like they're like that would fit under number one so I feel like we should it do devices because some of those devices include the weighted vest that's being said well again so remember numbers one two three and four are right we have this definition of what restraint includes and then it says but it does not include the following four things okay so any any of those um sensory types of of tools would fall under number one is it does is not considered a restrained so then take out devices yeah I'm yeah I love my rated blanket there you go very Co anybody's anybody familiar with Tempo Gren she had her Squeeze Box um I'm recommending taking out the definition of school because with all the rewrites I did and because it was I mean
048they Define school is like anyway because of all the rewrites it doesn't matter it it's just a silly definition for us to have that was part of the law again it's why we policy shouldn't just be copy and paste regulations I mean yeah that's weird that it's just thrown in there well remember yeah they wrote like a school May do this but they needed to Define as a school district as opposed to like individual schools within a district that's right and then there then we've got that definition of seclusion in C um which I didn't make which I didn't make any recommend read that and if anybody has we I will tell you that at as of today I don't believe we've ever done any actual training on seclusion um teachers are trained um to
049use cusion as a tactic when kids are being destructed primly of property but also yeah but removing the rest of the class yeah that is true I think that's a fairly commonly used thing well yeah that is true so thank you for clarifying that because what most people think of when they think of seclusion um with the with the exception of um having but even that it's it's a it's a quiet space where they're supervised they're not alone it with with our Stars program so it just it really actually doesn't even meet this definition of seclusion so it's interesting it says that a uh the uh time out is not considered a form of seclusion correct really seclusion seclusion is usually like a room that's designed like you put the kid in there and you
050close the door and they get to just do whatever they're doing until they calm down then you let them out and like those things they like they I've seen schools talk about the safe space is that a sensory room we always have an adult with the kids yeah see that's the thing if they're if they're not left alone it's not seclusion so so when we talk about right the safe space or the or the sensory rooms or whatever each school's calling that those kinds of places they're not supposed to be being left alone oh well the difference between seclusion and like a timeout is it's timeout is technically voluntary because usually parents the student Etc agree beforehand hey these are the rules whatever if you throw the blocks you go to timeout that's different than
051a child like freaking out and needing to be secluded which is in voluntary right if you were to involuntarily put a kid in timeout by like physically secluding theming aboutus well I there was a question earlier about what seclusion is I wanted to make sure that that that I could I answered that question and so I so I think we're ready to move on yay done and done well except for having to do that back and forth comparison between this and other spots because because in the in JK there's that piece that we where we talk about where it talks about confinement as a disciplinary action which is different than seclusion but I want but at the time we're like wait let's make sure we're we're clear on what we're talking about there all right
052so I'm moving um just for you guys to see sorry I was gonna say do we want to PIV it to JK now yep I put it up on the screen for everybody so it's it's on page four if you're looking in the JK edits and and I think philosophically to just to start off I think these two different terms are being used because seclusion is not meant to be disciplinary in nature it's meant to be an opportunity for them to deescalate and get out of whatever crisis they might be in and then there might be disciplin stuff whereas confinement in this policy is a disciplinary action that's or part of a disciplinary action that's being taken and I don't know so do we want to either include in what I would be scre so
053I'm going back to jld DB do we want to put um definement as like a c definition here and Define it so that people have it here so that they know there's a delineation or and or do you want to just put it in the general like definition terms well I want to start with like is confinement a something that is that we want to be recommending continue as a an available policy discipline action under policy before we even have that conversation because confinement is not seclusion so it's well I know there's some schools who they have a they have like an alternative placement room so instead of kids going to like a teachers room or an ISS room basically and I think if I'm hearing you correctly then confinment would be those ISS rooms
054and I do think that's really helpful like we don't have one for like they're not for like a moral standing reason we just don't have one of those rooms but I do know like if we had somebody who could like be with the kids in that individual room it would take a lot of stress off of our teachers we just don't have the capacity for it so long way of saying schools are using them for ISS room it does feel like it's effective for them so I think we should keep it C can you repeat that the long way or the short way um are you are you saying like the like an alternative placement is because this is like students are left alone I know like it depends on what we mean by alone
055they're not truly alone but there are some schools that they have the kids totally separate for their ISS and there's like one person monitoring the ISS room which I think is is close to what this confinement policy is and I know that it's working for those schools really well um and it's taking the pressure off of their teachers we're on the flip side if one of our kids gets an ISS they go with a different grade level classroom and they spend the entire day with that grade level that's difficult and distracting for teachers which is not very effective so I think that you don't consider that room seclusion you consider it confinement well according to what he we just mentioned right seclusion is like a deescalation point and a confinement would be like a disciplinary
056without being confined yeah I guess that's what's confusing to me is like no that's what I'm saying it's so like confinement doesn't necessarily mean like being secluded doesn't necessarily mean you're being confined so this wouldn't apply to well seclusion means the involuntary confinement of a people I get it but I guess what here what I'm reading is an enclosed space seclusion doesn't require an enclosed space necessarily depending on where this is happening it just says in a room from which egress is prevented that would an ISS room would meet that says pupil's left alone too to me that seems like solitarian so that would be the part that I would take out if because I don't think that any body is leaving kids alone in that room oh then Al I mean technically like I
057guess if you're like in there I'm pretty sure this refers to the rooms that we no longer use in this District or that we don't have so like when my brother was in an self-contained classroom in the mid 90s within that self-contained classroom at manav Vista I'm guessing these rooms got rid of when many of the schools got remodeled but there were two or three from what I recall from being in there rooms that had padded walls one door no windows but a window on the door so no windows within the room and some there would be no furniture in there and so in some instances my brother who had very serious behavioral issues would be placed in that room for some time until he cooled down or sometimes I would be called out of
058class to come speak to him through the window to calm him down is that confin me or is that I mean he's in the room by himself well and with the door locked you're right I mean the our definition of seclusion is means an involuntary confinement I mean they're circular terms at this point yeah that's weird so confinement is the rectangle and seclusion is the square no right I mean I mean if we're trying to figure it out like seclusion confinement and seclusion are ultimately kind of being left alone but seclusion has a little bit more parameter to it because it's involuntary well so I I think that the diff distinction between the two is the reason that we're doing it I think it functionally might look the same but one is we are putting
059this child here because we are disciplining them for some for Action they take and that's confin confinement as opposed to seclusion and and I'm saying this because seclusion is connected completely to restrained that's something we only use when a child's in an emotional crisis and is not able to safely manage themselves and they need us to manage them until they're able to safely manage themselves those are two different things um and seclusion needs to end as soon as there's no longer that threat of harm whereas confinement theoretically can be confinement could also like I would assume most situations that restraint and seclusion policy is going to apply to kids who have IEPs for the most part right and I would see this confinement applying to any student so I think potentially I'm going back back
060to what I was originally saying can we go ahead and like write under seclusion right now put confinement and let's write it out so everyone has it to refer back to oh so we can see both definition two parameters sure okay so I'm back in jld DB if you are following me and the screen well would it be faster we just copying and pasted it you know what stop fighting me on things I'm just um I was going to okay so I'm going to put it above here then okay so now we're going back to I myself spent a lot of time in an ISS room in middle school did you yeah for some reason I'm not surprised I'm right there with you man so I was like you can't bother my parents at work
061I'll just hang out in this room please please don't call their office and my dad's a truck driver good luck well and then what's also interesting with this confinement again it feels like it's worded I I don't understand how it's policy the way it's worded it's like it's clearly revised Statute yeah if confinement is authorized by the governing board well but like it have to yeah I mean it is because it's in this statute I guess but then it's also like not really because we didn't really do much it's just saying a process but then where's the process does it live somewhere else because this is just still saying exactly what the statute says weird I don't know I'm confused by the difference between the two still I know I'm trying I think we should
062move on like I guess the question is do we even want this in there conf and I think I what I was hearing what you were saying makes sense it's just not explained it's not actually this is I think that would be actually adopting the policy rather than saying that you can adopt a policy so you know what I'm saying yeah that's fair so then maybe someone could draft or not that I'm trying to give anyone work to do but draft something that would like fall under this that that talks about kind of what you were addressing unless there's other situations where you think that somebody needs to be left alone in an enclosed space I don't know I'm open to changing it I feel like there a big thing that's missing is the the
063ISS rooms or the teachers like using it the administration using it so it has to happen so well no I think that okay technically just having kids at school at all is confinement because they can't leave right they're not allowed to just walk off so we're confining them in the school building right they're not left alone right so that when they're left alone that is seclusion so I don't know why we need to talk about confinement at all well it says in here involving the confinement of pupils left alone and enclosed space yeah involuntary confinement of someone left alone is seclusion I guess seclusion is really only applying to kids with in my mind in that policy is really only applying to kids with IEPs or we're not really training or emergency scenarios yes yeah
064so this would then apply in pretty much every other scenario is what I was thinking confinement that's yeah well even look so ISS an ISS room is not invol like it's not involuntary confin it's not seclusion like we are welcome to do that because technically when a kid's like can I go to the bathroom and I'm like no they're confined in my room right if I'm like oh it's the last five minutes of class you can't leave they're being confined right I'm not going to physically stop them from leaving but if they walk off there's discipline they can't just walk out in the street right we're not going to let kindergarteners wander in the street that's confinement just the the process of putting kids in public school is confining them into a specific place we
065I don't think we need policy around it seclusion is specific because they're being left left alone in a room right and they're not allowed to leave like physically okay and that's only used in my understanding emergency situations and like we something interesting also is this word seclusion never comes up in the statute for pupil disciplinary proceedings only this section about confinement does and so I think that's what I'm really trying to get at is confinement is being used as a disciplinary tactic which is what you said before while seclusion is being used as like a deescalation such thing that's what I'm getting at right is that the difference between the two at least in the way the legislators probably trying to that yeah Bas based on the fact that confinement is used under one regul
066one statute and seclusion is in a different statute um they just are very they are defined in ways that make them sound and they would literally look very pretty much the same in terms of what it looks like if you were to see them in a snapshot but but the intent of again because seclusion is in the law connected to restraint and there are very specific right there are very specific situations under which those can be used confinement is not limited by those same yeah and also even in ISS room kids aren't alone I ISS room like 10 kids when I a kid right well some schools they well no they're not they're not they're not with their community so that's like the alone that's exclusion that's ustation it's not that's not confinement yeah find
067they're not or that's not seclusion sorry it's also right it's also not it's neither one it is it is confinement okay they're in a room they can't sounds like majority of us like to get rid of it can we just but not as not as defined in their statutes so revised statutes defines confinement in part as the pupil being is being left alone in that space Oh okay okay yeah yeah inary procedure right so that's they're both defined very that's why I'm saying they are both effectively defined the same way just really intent and purpose I'm trying to figure out where seclusion is in statute um in the definition statute but then where it's being defined for some purpose but in what statute do they I think um it is um um so I know
068it's in 15105 the definition but I just don't know what no but it it is um 841 I think it's yeah I think it's 8:41 841 let me look yeah we um alternative education maybe not okay so another question I have darn it and ultimately at this point I don't care whatever you guys want to do I think for the purpose of our school district we're good to go but I think the other question for me is I have a kid who's going to be suspended right um and the parents can get can't come get them I get it if confinement is only if it's they alone you're right we never do it but if I have kid who I'm going to suspend and they cannot go back to their classroom and they're up in
069the office I feel like this is also besides the left alone part this also is touching on that I I strongly disagree this has nothing to do with that confinement well what does I guess it stop talking about confinement for a second and help me clarify this where in our policy does it share that when we do take kids out of their classroom for an ISS or for just like a investigative purposes where do we have that in here because I might put a kid in the conference room while I'm trying to figure out does he have drugs on him he give the drugs to somebody and if we don't need we don't need to justify or have policy for that's fine but those are the dilemmas I'm feeling and they only seem to kind
070of fit here so I we haven't run into that but because what you've just described is actually a part of uh insuring due process and it's the inves discipline hasn't happened at that point yeah or we're waiting to make it to execute it for families and whatnot yeah I would argue that that happens a lot actually like when we're when we're you're right due process but like when we're investigating or if we've like just had a fight we separate them they do get confined they do get separate and there are times where like I'll leave this one kid in the room to take this other kid to the nurse yeah they're not in their community and they're not learning so something's happening to them so what do we call that and where is that in
071here or does it need to be and then sometimes the investigation is complete and you're waiting to have the parent pick them up and the parent so they are so they're still secluded but at that point you but once you've done I would say that once you've done your investigation you are now implementing discipline and well you may be waiting for not a school suspension to start because you're waiting for the parent to pick up you're effectively in school suspending them until the parent shows up that's part of discipline once you've once you've made the decision that that's what you're doing we have no definition of suspension that distinguishes between out of school and in school there's a practice and I I've been told it was called alternative placement so that's a different thing yes
072there is a difference that is an additional way that we do I think if someone had to held your feet to the fire you'd say hey this kid was alternatively placed in the office for 30 minutes while this investigation concluded like technically like per policy that's probably what's happening but you can't discipline see here's the thing you can't discipline a child until they've gotten their due process which means you need to complete the investigation before you can imp call are we making sure it's okay yeah well an alternative would whoever wrote these laws had a brain and was logical and thought about all the other laws that no but I part of that too is I think that's why it's important that these particular policies and it's why I added it to the restraint and
073seclusion start with the superintendent shall recommend policies and develop procedures for the students that comply so it really lives out it's the policy are meant to provide the parameters under which the superintendent ensures that th these are the practices that we're doing that align to this policy so what I hear you saying is that what I'm concerned about does not pertain to this and if that's the case we'll just take out confinement are we there I I it doesn't taking it out doesn't get rid of the statute that permits us to do it and so if we want to do it at any time we can do it at any time we can take it out it's not a big deal because it's literally not even anything it's just saying you can do it it's
074not even take it out go for it okay none of us liked it there anyway so you have the power you and your ning bottle wait do I um I can't take it out what's happening here 15843 but if we take it out then does that leave it go ahead it just skip well that's why I thought that that's why I this conf because what I read in the practice there's practice like attached to this so that's where I was at too but it sounds like this is just going to probably be repeated think PRI notification is going to be included in any disciplinary procedure so actually yeah cool what are we done finally with this one policy I'm sorry which one policy are you asking I things no there's clearly some work still in
075here but we' gotot done it oh we had done a bunch except for we skipped that part and then there's some left at the bottom the threatening educational institution and temporary removal I think is all we haven't done or because there's also start here for our next meeting regulating off-campus speech but we just were talking about that at the beginning of this meeting yeah well we've talked about that we talked about that I believe at the meeting you weren't at so the one thing that we're trying to figure out is is Daniel just one what thank you miss one we're the reason it says start here for this next meeting is because Daniel's comment for C and D we weren't sure what we wanted to do with that that's why that's there so it really
076wasn't like the next meeting but that part we didn't figure out we're off C spech I think I've missed a meeting yet it was I missed the we Hilda look back at the I think it's just Jay that's missed a meeting I missed oh three there you go not that you're keeping you know it's it's not a contest check I'm not trying to all right so mainly because I was like yeah I don't want to miss the meetings then I'm like what if Jay's not there so the big thing that was left on this one is C we said we were gonna cross out but then I think the whole thing was like is this plagiarism and where do we want that to go if I remember from Daniel's comment like what is this what
077are we trying to do here with off-campus speech with the lessons and computers on bre I was going to say actually sorry um I was reading through the bullying and harassment policy that one covers a lot of off-campus speech stuff that I think would be a better home for it than here okay and we're still going to go over that yep so like cyber bullying for example is covered in there I mean technically harass talking about C and D are you talking about the one no I'm talking about completely different policy I think we can probably mix the weird parts of this and move on to the bullying and harassment one and it'll be a more productive conversation than trying to like needle this language got sure so we're not worried about the plagiarism thing
078that you were wondering about last time um subsection C that that's that's why we're here all the other stuff is good the or the a b e through G we want do we want to make C just the failure to follow rules concerning plagiarism and erase the specific weird specific examples I think that's fine and then I think we had no idea what we meant by breach of school security devices like hacking hacking the alarms that's what we were in the locks and then so that was like is that off campus speech like I guess it would be like posting I mean you could say I post a bunch of kids lunch numbers on my Instagram so you could go and mess with their student riew things like that right so if I'm hearing us
079we're thinking we're not necessarily like lessons or plagiarism but also sharing like a test key or something like that that you've gotten by getting into the teacher email or something like that yeah okay so fail to follow rules concerning cheating Andor plagiarism none of the examples so that was the first option for this and then breaches of uh school security devices through hacking is hacking really the only thing that you like common breaching toward well I mean actually it could be tearing a camera down or spray painting the on so the school security devices are going to be anything from a fence to a doorway to a camera to an alarm syst and again I go back to is that speech well you could so for example let's say a kid posted on Instagram oh
080here's how you can disable the school cameras that's like a far-fetched thing but right that would be speech that would be speech determining surrounding the breach of a school security device oh here's how you can oh I mean here's another here's how you can Jimmy the door on the side of the campus to sneak in and smoke during the summer right whatever things like that like that's probably more realistic right um like that's off- campus speech regarding the breach of but we also added G which is encouraging criminal activity so you know I'm fine with taking out D and putting Under the Umbrella of G sure and then I think your comments are covered Daniel can I resolve that one yep I don't understand who made this policy that they didn't use like bullets for
081this they just put letters it's because it's copied and yeah but it should copy and paste the too right I'll fix it when we more formatting formatting and then did you have besides we can do a better job here did you have anything I don't even I thought we had talked about that one last time but I don't remember now I think when you had a couple of better jobs and they were about like the age thing and this they were like on the suspension things like we could do better than 10 days or whatever so I'm not oh but was like never mind I already know why that's there because it's so we cleared those the notice stuff so I didn't even I wasn't thinking about that sorry I just went off on a
082tangent because I think that language from breaching security devices is from a Supreme Court case so I'm just looking at it really quickly thank you for um the honey Area School District versus this minor and father let me look so while you do that does anyone have want to take a stab at the last comment on page page five the district may take affirmative steps to work with the student short of discipline to engage in future respectful and accountable digital citizenship which policy was that uh JK last page or sorry not last page page five I feel like we have something like this my question would be why is it to digital I think I think it's because they just put it with the off-campus speech but we technically have that in our I was
083gonna say is don't we already speak to I think we have on the student discipline it's like our intro paragraphs on the student discipline ones that we did I me yeah because Tech I mean technically yeah it's the paragraph I added right that's right develop to work in tandem with positive behavior and supporting systems within the district such as social skill instruction emotional regulation skill instruction D we could just add digital citizenship to the list of so why don't you do that and we take this out yeah everybody yep okay let me just see there's okay so this this is fine because we took out the confinement policy do we wna I think we just didn't clear out the comments because at least my well my comments that are left we actually figured out for
084sure so there's a case from 2021 from the Supreme Court where they said that while Public Schools may have a special interest in regulating some off-campus student speech that special interests offered by the schools are not sufficient to overcome be's interest in this case so I didn't read the specific facts to this case but it looks like it had something to do with whether or not her Snapchat post cost substantial disruption at school okay so then um the Supreme Court is basically saying that in Tinker they indicated obviously that schools have a special interest in regulating on cap of speech that material disrupts classwork or involves substantial disorder invasion of the rights of others they go on to elaborate in this case that the special characteristics that give schools additional license to regulate speech do
085not always disappear when the speech takes place off campus circumstances that implicate a school's regulatory interests include serious or severe bullying or harassment targeting particular individuals threats at teachers or other students the failure to follow rules concerning lessons the writing of papers the use of computers or participation in other online school activities and breaches of school security devices that's where they copy the language from once again copy and past from a Supreme Court case so that's why that's there a defined interest of the district yeah okay um I have a random question before we go on to the next thing uh the student dress code jic and jic R A we finished right there's two comments on there but I think that they're I think both of those comments were like we wanted we just
086want to go back and rewrite some things and we just decided we all agree what we wanted it to say we just nobody's gone back in I'm just trying to stay consistent to what I did with the initial naming things and so everything that you'll see in our shared drive if it says draft one it means that we've completed all edits and that we just need to finalize like word smithing to it um just so that it's clear for us so now we have jic and jic KR correct yeah I would just like to say that um W I already uploaded that case I just read from in the drive my mind doesn't apparently I did that in the past um the bullying and harassment policy is actually really really good and I wish we
087implemented this at all District which one is it j j i and j i Ki there okay I'll be honest I didn't think that we were going to get this far so I I didn't review it did anybody has everybody already reviewed I'm trying to recall because I feel like at the last meeting you guys were all like we have spring break let's not have homework but you're gonna have maybe me go through something at the meeting I think we were that that would make sense because that we haven't done that yet we're you were like here's what you can change or can't change but you didn't get a chance to do this because he just copied and pasted it so we might be I mean I could have done it but clearly I didn't
088it's been an interesting couple of weeks would we like to I mean we could take 10 minutes to quietly read this add comments and start here next time I don't know how many more meetings we have but we have three that I saw on the paper and I think we do that just end and then yeah our actual end I mean our calendar end time is 6:30 usually we go till 7even but I don't I feel like we just end that way everybody has time and yeah then we can come at this fresh yeah when we've all had time to really digest it not just can we have comments on it by the start of our next meeting I think that that's a fair request a reminder of our next meeting date I know it's
089in our calendars it says April 4th April 4th okay um okay so oh that's soon I want to cross these off jic we finished jic um JK is done now students rights and responsibility restraint and seclusion we still have one two three four five we still have five things but some of these like secret sties and gang activity I cannot imagine that going very long and same with the removal I think we're fine to we could probably knock out maybe just so that we ready to go maybe if everyone could look at jic and like one more of these one of these easier ones should we do the gang one because that'll probably the jic f um heads up I will not be here for April 4th but I will leave comments okay thank you
090so and also just just James you mentioned it earlier as I was reading through this I mean I think hate speech is pretty pretty cut and dry seems like depending on the is either bullying harassment or intimidation depending on the usage like giving someone a friendly racist nickname kind of feels like harassment you know what I mean agree with that too yeah it's just up to the AP to make that call I think yeah and that's goes back to what you all were talking about in terms of how you all decide to culturally deal with that and some of those are going to be like learning conversations and then once you've had the learning conversation if things continue then maybe it's a different conversation and like even there's a line in here about social exclusion
091or ostracism right like vling that like rates like racist comments that aren't quite hate speech yeah are pretty clearly like social exclusion right othering someone because of their race their sexuality get what you're saying one about the nicknames but also like for example I had a student in Portland who was from Cuba and referred to herself as mulata as like a nickname I had to have a conversation with her about the historical context of that term in English and in the United States versus maybe her experience being a Cuban person with that term and so like it was a very weird cuz other kids were like why would you call yourself that and then she was like very confused why people were upset and things like that so I totally get what you're saying and
092I think that there's still like we got to have those conver got to find way to have those conversations but that can be up to you all yeah I feel like maybe I'm getting stuck in the i in the concept of uh Progressive discipline and not enough in the side of education and restorative uh conversations and trying to educate because I I agree I think some of it is cultural and I don't mean cultural like as in ethnicity I mean cultural within the school itself and within the small groups of kids that are in that well thankfully on The Matrix there should be lines for bullying harassment and intimidation right yeah but these I mean for these kids they genuinely don't see it as bullying or harassment yeah I can see that because they're terms
093of yeah it's hard to have that convers they're like don't worry I didn't use the ER and like oh it's not it's not okay stop fighting yeah it's a yeah I think it's probably more of an educational aspect um and we're working on those conversations within the culture itself um but it's I think maybe I'm just fixating too much on the Progressive discipline and I don't I don't feel like the answer is there do you want like a so I so let me start over in the governing board policy thing I've labeled the two things that we might be looking at as like here's the policy feedback due April ail 3rd do you want to have a date where you would be able to go through and highlight the purple did you highlight what we
094could change or you highlighted put highlights and then maybe I kind of put notes I'll just do that again so the third is two weeks that's when we'll it'll be do we're meeting on Wednesday very strange are we oh no we're meeting on Thursday the 4th you want to done by I was like huh yeah okay so I just need to get it done by like next Wednesday or Thursday on GCF there's also GCF are then we should probably that and you and I were I started creating those documents as well so oh okay do you already have it copied and pasted I do yeah they're both copied and pasted in my version okay so can somebody repeat back we just so I know we finished jld DB we finished JK we're looking forward towards
095jicf and jcfr as well as jic and J yeah so I think I think we talk about starting with jic k and jic KR and then doing jicf and J which is B basically one page of very quick reading and then I put when you go in there you'll see click on the ones that say feedback do April 3D those will be the ones you'll want to look at so um should I delete the nope I I deleted mine and added it no I see oh I just haven't upd refresh my screen um I will put a reminder in my calendar right now [Music] for Wednesday March 27th okay to get that done so then I can do is you're GNA do March 27th yeah so then I'll do a invite for everybody now um
096polies dri so Thursday March 28th all day there we go my work phone right no so wait are we adding a date to the calendar I'm doing now for you I'm literally just doing begin governing board policy feedback the day after she's doing it up to the 3 okay but are we meeting no no she's just putting a calendar invite to remind us to go in and put our notes in oh gotcha got got I put a calendar in for myself because then I'll forget to even go look at it do you have a um or do you want me to send you the calendar invite and if so can you send me your emaila y you are are we entertaining on motion to adjourn I move we adjourn oh can I can I get
097a second all those in favor I all right meeting adjourned