001if you are just tuning into to the broadcast we are uh in the middle of the meeting now it's 5:43 and uh we're at uh letter D on JK so we're following through the policy the policy is JK student discipline and we are currently discussing section D so or C sorry not d c okay so do should we leave c as is then anybody object okay moving on d d is uh Megan's comment yeah I basically just read it I read it like multiple times to I feel like interpret what it was saying and I still feel like I don't I don't know I just don't know if there's a way to make it more reader friendly I commented on your comment with my first at it so this is your revision yeah the end
002I was an Eliz so that might need to be a second sentence I I mean I I think that is a a lot more clear I like that you uh put in the K2 part too because there are extenuating circumstances for other grade levels what do you think Meg I agree yeah I think it makes more sense anybody else going once going twice M thank you for rewriting it because it makes more sense because yeah I read it multiple times and I still can make sense and but my question is is what is in this paragraph actually really kind of going back to part of what's it's like it's basically B I think yeah yeah like that we just rewrote like is is there anything in there that's not already a part of being why
003do we need to have why do we need to say it twice I guess is my question I think that so my best guess was that four where B is it's like you're determining that the be like you're talking about like how bad the behavior is okay and then like the sub bullet B is basically like it's so bad we can't control it with a behavior intervention and then D is being like Oh by the way you definitely did the intervention for and that we''ve inv involved the parents input and okay yeah than well whatever and documented can somebody replace that and then we'll move on to E one and two uh two is the next comment and that is me what are examples a readmission procedure for pupils who are in kindergarten through fourth
004grade and who are expelled from or subject to Alternative reassignment at the school to be considered for readmission on appeal of the pupil's parent or Guardian at least 20 school days after the effective took me and Adam an hour this was like the longest part of our hour together um it's like I think it's kind of crazy so we don't ever do this but one and two if I'm reading it correctly if we suspend a kid for 10 days and on the fifth day the parents like I really don't think they deserve the 10 days they can come and appeal for us to readmit them sooner and then on two where you have the alternative reassessment if we expel a student or we send them to like Compass Learning 10 years ago the kid would
005have to stay at that school for at least 20 days before the parents could like ask for us to let them come back so there are no examples because this is I've never heard of this happening are you have examples of alternative re assignment or just this POS I wrote this on January 30th well and the alternative reassignment we talked about I think we talked about it right Compass yeah that's it also I'm not sure what was going through my head at the time to be honest so I I don't know where where this came from origin originally like where as decided to pull this kind of stuff but it feels very reminiscent of the special education rules about um you know when we like if we are moving a tri to another placement because
006of disciplinary reasons which there's a very limited scope where we can do that unilaterally they have due process rights that allow them to challenge the placement as a part of that and I'm wondering if this was trying to get at this or with maybe allowing parents like my kids you know good behavior please I don't know but um I think what what I was thinking about the time my mind is a lot on restorative practices it's it's something that's important to me so I think in my mind was like what what would be an alternative reassignment that would somehow or another be related to um a some sort of res restoration process but I I and and because expulsion is is definitely much much more severe than suspension um so I in my mind I
007was like you know what is it that and maybe it maybe this is too high of a level for that maybe it's more of a you know a practice than it is a policy so it is but I would not I would I would leave an in should at any point the district decide that they need to actually expel a child or I also do an alternative place it's apparently such an unpopular comment the computer did not keep it I would like to suggest that where it says at least 20 days that we were to increase that because if we if we say like intervention in the classroom for six to eight minutes then if a kid is parents going to try to have their student readmitted after being expulsion there should be the amount
008of time it would take for them to show progress so I was like 30 to 40 consider but I feel like I would yes it is and remember 20 school days is four weeks is it 20 it says 20 school days but six to eight is what we say intervention is when we're doing like mtss process but most things need six to eight weeks so if you need six to eight weeks to show progress in any other realm of academics then I feel like that should say consistent to like being remitted of the school and I know this is kind of a moot thing because it doesn't really happen but if think of the things that we expel kids for let it up let's kick it up to 30 days well I also think that
009part of this really is about the alternative reassignment option that we've never knew um and oftentimes I in special ed there in special ed we can do that an alternative reassignment for up to 45 school days under very specific circumstances um that' be my hunch you know it's because because of your comment about how long it takes for things like that to to to show progress I I would agree as well okay so next up is the aggravating circumstance and that is Miss skips mle can we feel like said statue can should we potentially just mix this and move it to the glosser oh yeah like a yeah at the bottom it's the only thing I could say is like if you wanted to add to this you could but I wouldn't like I don't
010know what documented prevents learning unresponsive sence perfect to me in my world the prosecutors have a lot their aggravating circumstances has a their very last subsection is a catch all so basically they can present anything as an aggravating circumstance but I wouldn't encourage you [Laughter] okay so next is the principal of each School shall ensure and that is Miss Gibson McLean as well okay so could we we could further Define this to make it more effective could if we wanted to we could really further Define we could say for example um you know not just a copy of all rules we could say the principal of each School shall ensure that there is a document you know behavior management system that is in place that addresses the needs of all students and that WR copy
011is distributed to staff students yes so my Wonder is um if we like know in practice what it is because down below you ask a question basically about it one of the things we might want to do too is consider just like the renaming of things um because what we give the parents that I think meets these rules it's actually listed as the parent and guardian responsibility form which I think is a misnomer to what we use it for so after anytime a student is so at the beginning of the year to your question beginning of the year the teacher the teachers get that big packet you send to each family and one of the papers inside is the parent responsibility I I think we might call it a compact um and it tells you
012about our disciplinary actions for problem problematic behaviors and then every time so parents all sign it at the very beginning of the year you turn it in and then anytime we um suspend a student we when we have their re-entry meeting we have to go through the suspension paperwork um and then we have to go through this form I brought a couple copies because I was like I if anyone you guys haven't been suspended so then I would say it sounds like you guys are already meeting the requirements for this policy because I think in order to get some of the parents the kids are the ones that take it home right you I mean I missed in my experience I mean also my parents I usually walk kids at least basically what the paperwork
013is right I would hope that the kids would maybe read it before they give it to their parents no no the parents have to you mean at the beginning of the year or during oh yeah and then also same thing I the only thing that we have to do to make sure this is being followa as polies that the kid who transfers in instead of just the parent showing up and signing it it would be kid is trans meeting or just take five minutes and walk through this yeah and they get it and when they transfer in um and they enroll it's a part it's in part of the enrollment packet too so so do we want to further Define this to make it much more effective or do you think this is just because
014here's might I could further Define this to make it more effective but I think this might just be intended to be like a send one of these Ty things and I can be might be moving past the scope of this language if we added a bunch more to I would my vote personally would be to leave it as the practice is because this is a feasible practice and if we did more like a presentation that was given out that would be really hard but I do think at the very least this is not named actually because it's like you'll bring like when I tell it to families I'm like these first six things are things that you're already doing at home you're already bringing them to school ready to learn you're making sure that they're
015clothed now the next Parts I want to talk to you about are what happens if they keep I use a whole staircase analogy but like on this on this staircase you know you're on the first step of fighting but if you get to the third step of fighting that might mean blah blah blah blah blah so um I our job is to stay at the policy level and not dictate the specific practices and so because that's that's stuff that falls under the superintendent responsibilities um that's what we're already editing right now a regulation it is but we're not going to dictate like the name of a of a form or or how that that is the process I think it's I just put that in there because it felt like I didn't know what the
016process was and just reading that I thought well this is done if that's not actually for once we are following policy I'm more than once but yeah so that's what that is so are we leaving it as is okay moving on that get that oh okay the very next thing is the princi more about that so the next one after that is uh for Megan the principal of each School shall ensure yeah that I think it was it was a crack at rewarding oh it I I guess passed that P never seen but I'm happy you probably haven't it's p that pack she's like just take a packet um this plary actions will be reported inmin all types ofion so so so wait are we resolving it's because we have two paragraphs that are nearly
017identical very bottom of three and the very top of four yeah are we resolving Megan's comment yeah okay because one is parents and one is students and then Adriana's is next oh Adam was just thinking that when you see a comment that says a that's Adam that maybe we should have more than once in the beginning of the year I think that's a great idea feels more like a practice make that reations so we can resolve that all right next is uh Katie's comment about the disciplinary actions taken will be recorded just a question mark so probably AC is not def so also admin is not also what was the stop explanation is that where I stopped law I don't know I think you wrote that that is okay that's what I was wondering or
018or or a note to us to stop you from explaining this stop her now stop her now to stop before temporary removal you're right because then we were like yeah okay so all right the obviously temp the temporary removal part I believe was like very much wait we're not there yet oh we're not there we're at the paragraph right above oh that's where my question mark is I thought that's where it start I ALS I ALS I also have a question mark about this sentence so even if that was an accident I would like to talk about it so the okay maybe that is what I meant was that little sentence the disciplinary actions that are recorded in the administrative log I took it as anytime that we do suspensions or expulsions we're required to
019put them into Synergy which is our administrative blog so what is the separate file so so this so this part is tricky because in Synergy when you put it in in their violations you can pull up a student students incident history and that would be their separate file right I will tell you if you're thinking about the um paper copies so what not and I'm speaking only for monov Vista those go into a black binder chronologically with their cover sheets so that I know like I need to discuss suspensions when I have that yeah so so I mean what I feel is that separate file for each student with suspension convulsions it makes that Synergy make sense to me I feel like that aligns there um disciplinary taken will recorded an administrative log that to
020me feels like if I let's say I'm a new assistant principal and I come in and there's a kid with all this Behavior but maybe he's only been suspended one time I would like to see the Brad documentation of interventions that have been tried lunch detentions after school detention go into synerg deta um sometimes um you know I think sometimes things go into Synergy and sometimes things don't go into Synergy and I think that suspensions explosions usually make it in Synergy it's not it's not in in my opinion it's not a consistent practice as a parent I've heard from Little Birdies that Synergy ain't being used like it should that you know is not a consistent practice this child has been referred or I've had all these issues and then I look and nothing's been
021written about and just to add to the story because you are correct uh just to add to the story uh sometimes there's a perception that you have like an internal log and then you have a for public log which is not really for public but is reported to the state and uh the state is aware of that so there's this perception that you want to kind of Shield that uh because the thought process is we don't need to put everything out there just the stuff that is high up to a certain threshold which I so Synergy so correct me what follows a student from high school or to high school are we aware of what so Behavior records from a school don't don't follow the kids their C their like report card does so then
022is there any reason not to extensively track behavior in Synergy is what yeah well in Synergy or and to be honest it would be capacity because we get a go we get a Google form we have like our office referrals come in as a go in into our Google form and we go through all of those things but some of the stuff ends up being like it could be an office referral where like we got nowhere with like there's this this kid so that will stay in that Google form but then anything that we give like a detention for or a conference for we put into Synergy so it's very time consuming that's so w I'm sorry I'm just still stuck on the fact that nothing goes to the high school I'm like whoa because
023when they they can act they can request Behavior records but we can't give any detail we don't give the detail stuff that's in Synergy so it basically just lives for our personal records so think is a good when they get a behavior report it might say like um suspension and then it'll give like the violation code but gives like no details yeah yeah but that doesn't automatically go with them when they go that has to be like specially requested so disciplinary action is do we have a shared common definition this we talked about this a little bit I mean removal from classroom is a displ action right right kind of detention is a displ action any kind of consequence such as losing is dis action um would we like to instead of saying administrative log
024would we just like to say Synergy would we like to be more specific I know Synergy is a specific platform but I feel like we have used Synergy since the beginning of time so I don't know we haven't well we've only been with Synergy for seven years but and it is so fun to use well you know um but I appreciate you bringing that because I was thinking the same thing like this takes me back to our previous conversation about when we're talking about discipline what's discipline and what's not discipline because this is just saying discipline will be like and that can be way over Broad and I will say I mean the reality is as a person who gets called in and asked to look at kids and be and be that expert and
025I'm like uh huh or and or with a special ed kids sometimes I get asked hey we need to do a manifestation determination like there's nothing in the like where they're like no there there was this suspension I'm like it's not even in there I how do I and I know that's a practice but but but for speaking to the consistency of the practice but I do think that we need the policy needs to be very clear on what when we say discipline what are we talking about um because this mostly this policy is about suspension and expulsion so my I want to just say really quick just to give us a like a Insight on how it is um a school like so I'll just talk for manav Vista mon Vista we average 300
026two like 340 office referrals a year things that we get from everybody I know I know so 340 office referrals we we don't put every single one into Synergy we just we don't get to it because you have to remember that when you put it into Synergy it's not just the is the one incident but then you have to put it in for each kid and like I I have a feeling my understanding is I think that I put I have previously in history like put in way more than maybe some other schools were putting in and I still would be like oh I didn't get these like there's still every quarter I was like I didn't get to like 20 of those 30 of those that are in there it's overwhelming and I believe
027that there's one school who has like almost 1,200 office referrals right now at this point in the school year like we have to be really thoughtful about if you say every office Pearl every time a teacher sends a kid or everything that's not a disciplinary action so I'm I added a comment um so I would say like disciplinary actions that result in a student's temporary removal from class or suspension of Privileges and I think that's the current practice well that is not the current practice that's what has been told to us to make it our current practice can you repeat that what's not the current practice that so I'm saying discipline actions that result in a student's temporary from class or suspension of privileges will be recorded ministra and AD joh is saying that's our
028current practice I have a bunch of lunch detentions that my students have got I promise you if I go in Synergy right now they're not in there well lunch so that's a suspension of privilege right lunch detention is a a suspension of privilege recess yeah yeah it is it was in recess that sounds like their privilege of recess put it in as detention is all so I I'll go you know I will go check right now put my money where my mouth I I trust you well actually K Katie I this is a legal question okay right because the question is if we whether it's whether we call it a detention or not if we if we disallow a child from participating in lunch and recess is that at in a legal level because they're
029not well and part of this has to do how Daniel wrote his definition here I out there yeah no no no but um but that is effectively a temporary removal from their class their program um from something that they should be allowed to access and I'm asking this because special there's like special ed this starts like this creates a real issue with in in the world of special ed because so you may not have the answer today but maybe something we need to explore okay so sorry yeah because then it would cause like you all to have to re-evaluate like basically everything that the kids do special because they're already at doing different things um yeah I think that's something that we might want to ask Jessica about I think what we is there a
030way you could write the question so that Jay can get it to Jessica also just to sorry right for okay um just throw I have a referral from February 13th where a student the referral was handled students give lunch attention and lunch attention is not logged in Synergy how are you looking at Synergy what are you looking at they're displine incidents in Synergy I can see all my students displ incidence well I guess I I think we're split hairs right like because there's one way that like this is the directive of the district and then there's like each person's like capacity to it but the rules are if I remember them correctly you absolutely had to put in your suspensions you have to put in your um expulsions and that you should put and that
031you should put in so those are the have to and then you should put anything in that was going to be like ongoing like if it's if it's like their second incident you would put that in um or if you are doing um like any sort of like you the administrator were giving the consequence and doing the consequence it sounds like my school is not following policy I I can add to that a little bit in the sense and we just had this conversation yesterday about uh specifically discipline and what is something that is designated as office manage and what is designated as teacher manage and I think especially at at our school there is some confusion about where that is and who is responsible for that and I think that maybe there's a lack
032of understanding about and this goes back to the original question that there's there's not consistent straight across is like is everything go in or is it stuff that's just office managed or is it not I don't know so I would say this one action is the result in a students temporary removal from uh we might want to make that more specific because syy and look at the violations and just say if this is a violation a kid gets from you this is one that would need to be in it still would make ity the my question is is it about the violation or is it about the dis it's about the disposition what I meant to say we can look at the disposition and of these being the disciplinary actions they call them dispositions DET
033suspension there's like a parent notification like community service is is one parent notification like you know if I we put some into Synergy and like the disposition is apparent notification other schools might not be putting in and I would also say that that's probably not you can also log that communication logs what that's for well I think yes my thing is just like if we can put it in and it feels like it's going to be ongoing you know so I would I mean me personally I I would appreciate uh Direction in terms of that just because I've heard mixed messages in terms of what goes in Synergy what doesn't go in Synergy is that the official log should we have an internal and something like that I I would just like I I would
034just like Direction ad can you just look at the Synergy dispositions real quick and I think tension suspension and expulsion are easy for us but what else is on there that we my question and James with that thought is is that something that needs to be explicitly given guidance from the regulation or is that the superintendent in in terms of how he's implementing all the all of this that the guidance needs to be provided at that level well it sounds like the guidance has been provided and that is not being followed consistently and so having an additional layer of account no and I appreciate that think you're right our job right right now our F task is do we need to rewrite anything here and I'm trying to get a sense of do we based
035on this conversation I personally related to get the guidance and I don't mean to be crass but I personally don't care I don't care if it comes from the superintendent I don't care if it comes from the policy I just want you to tell me what to do I think it should come from the superintendent I would defer um yeah oh no Katie went to the bathroom or something and we need her to explain this thing now um statute we do not need necess basically it says looks like Katie is just saying we don't necessarily need a confinement policy um confinement is very different yes confinement is like locking a kid in like a closet right yeah we should just eliminate this um however so there's a policy that's teally under confinement do you want
036to do temporary removal first that sorry one second let me look at this statue this is basically saying kids will follow the rules yes okay that sounds good to me that sounds vague enough and like br enough that's what most of our schools do everyone every teacher is allowed to temporarily learn most students from class you can't no one your principal can ever tell you you need to keep this kid in class I mean make it a priority but they can't tell you this kid screaming and crying and wailing you can't teach you have to keep them in class sound looks good to me um so is this this Katie comment does is she saying that we should not have this at all I think she was saying like you don't have to have it
037because like they allow us to have it but we don't need to have it on both of them and Adam does not think that we should have a confinment policy because he's like well because we were talking about like well when would kids get confined because we don't do that currently we don't just like put them in room and I was like well they put in rooms and his point was like well it's probably more dangerous to them or like if they got in trouble for like drugs what if they had them and they were using them I'm sorry I actually reconsidering this now because so technically what this look what is technically confinement is if a kid is doing something dangerous and remove all of the students from the room and close the door
038and keep the door closed while I wait for my someone to show up to handle the kid that's techically confinement right because I I've left a student alone in in enclosed space which is the room yeah um I just clicked on the the law because I want to read that specific definition because that's not the terminology that was previously used in the law it was um um seclusion not um confinement and I'm not finding the the explicit wording based on the link that's in here just say number nine thank you yeah I mean because technically so I mean I mean this has happened before at my school if a kid has like a knife or something dangerous and is being erratic your our procedures to remove everyone else from the classroom close the door keep
039the door closed answer is yes yes we do we do have that um for Our Stars classrooms we have space that they can do that if it's necessary so we can't take that out of policy yeah I would leave that in policy um I would I would like to ask Katie about sorry you're so Katie what we just discussed yeah we said that we're cool with temporary removal that's just referring kids out of the classroom yeah so confinement so we originally thought of confinement as like locking a kid in a closet or something which sounded crazy but actually technically what confinement is in a school setting is like the example I just gave if like a student had a knife and was being erratic like our procedure is to remove all other students from the
040classroom and close the door and keep the door closed like that's technically confinement and that is my my understanding is that is basically like the safest and best thing to do in a situation like that um and so this needs to remain in policy I do have a question for you though if that's you don't any for like oure students prior parental notification so the yeah what stood out to me on this one was my brother's experience in this District in the 90s and being placed in padded rooms by himself um and me being called to like come calm him down that's what this brought up for me I don't know if that I know that those rooms don't necessarily exist anymore but um that's what it brought up for me and I thought I
041would never want to see anything like that again but we do have some of those kinds of spaces for like our our social emotional self-contained program yeah um there I it's you know there's a they are constantly monitored there's a there are windows in the door so that they can be watched [Music] um but we I mean we utilize them yeah as calming down spaces and timeout rooms I mean it's not but technically depending on exactly the wording of the law because it keeps changing those could meet the threshold of this that's what I was thinking okay um so what's weird in the in how this is All Worked is like if confinement is authorized like like has the technically theard yeah that's why I was also curious about that but also I'll say this
042you know like 25 30 years ago my brother wasn't there was wasn't a there weren't two sped rooms he was in a room that was for Behavior social emotional and for people with like all kinds of cognitive dis like it was like a we are putting everybody in the same room and because you're acting out and we don't have time we're just gonna put you in this room right now kind of thing right my understanding is the conditions that sort of thing is used under is when a kid is the danger to themselves or others and cannot be CM down okay yeah I don't even know where else because I was also trying to think of where else the board would authorize this Kati I didn't figure that out below if we're done talking about
043yeah well this at the end of confinement can you look at that statute and for the defense of property part and tell us if we can take that out or if that's required by law oh yeah because so my thing I think it makes perfect sense to say we should not you know um we should not prohibit schools from having policy which has procedures for reasonable use of physical Force to defend yourself or others that makes sense if I have to grab a kid because they're hurt hurting someone I should not be liable or whatever um but defense of property feels sketchy to me I would really not like a teacher to be like well I grab this kid because he was so breaking my stuff yeah the way what it says though is prec
044is that this the governing board of any school district in consultation with the teachers and parents of the school district shall prescribe the rules for discipline suspension and extion the rules shall be consistent with the constitutional rights and shall include at least the following it says proceed for the reasonable use so like you could say that there's no reasonable use of physical Force for I mean you could say that I guess like you don't think there's any reasonable use for physical force of Defense of property um so we I mean we could just remove and defensive property from this line then my only wonder is it's not really like you're defending the property but like when kids start to like actively destroy something like in the like use of Mak making a weapon you would
045stop them yeah so I feel like which that's in defense of them right like they're hurting themselves or others or they're preparing to hurt themselves or others right like that's isn't that the parameter that the you have they have to be either hurting themselves or others but what I'm saying is like like if if I saw like because technically right and I may be like being too literal but like if a kid's breaking this chair but they're not breaking the chair and actively hitting me with it and they're not actively hitting other people with it but I could infer that you are going to do something with it you can act before they act okay so like technically an assault can occur before anybody touches you because assaults there's many definitions of assault in Arizona
046and one of them is that somebody's put you in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury okay and that's what I was just wondering because like you because then if it was like if a parent was like they were just breaking the chair like this would cover me being like yeah they were breaking the chair and I was concerned about safety but if I could say like well I assumed that the breaking of the chair was to hit with it I think I think this eliminating this would be I feel very because I think what is more likely is a kid breaks a ruler and a teacher gets mad and snatches it from them right or you know a kid is not I've had teachers where you know I have I have learned as a teacher
047you don't keep anything you care a whole lot about in your classroom but like there's teachers that keep pictures of family members or decorations in their classroom they care a lot about and you really don't want to or any staff member to be like I am touching this child because I don't want them to break this picture frame or break this thing that's very UNC and obviously there's still a punishment prescribed in some other place but this is just about using physical Force against the child I would say you know politically speaking obviously like this just goes this is like stand your ground for schools basically defensive property which I feel like is unwise my I guess my question is the distinction between this General use of force because it's an immediate we have to
048do something versus like I mean you know as a district we train staff in the use of physical restraint yeah for sure right and so it's and I what I don't know off the top of my head is within our policy is this the only paragraph that now that speaks to our ability to use that yes yeah I think so that's the only place that I I saw it from what I recall when I look through it policy for a bunch of stuff this is the only place I found one the only so like where are the procedures well here's the thing it says schools are not prohibited from adopting policies which include but this isn't even like this is so ref self- referential um so that's another point that you're making right and so
049under and I think confinement has the same issue because um but the the funny thing is is the way that the statute says is that the governing board in consultation with all these people is going to develop the procedures for the reason which that's kind of that's like seems like a little bit in contention with the way this is written maybe it's just saying okay since we don't have it schools can do it schools are not prohibited we don't I also feel like it might legally speaking whatever it might also be important for the governing board not to create specific procedures that include I it might be unwise no I agree I don't know that we're most people wouldn't be experts in that so I wouldn't be into that can we remove and defensive properties
050everyone okay with that yeah and then we can see what Jessica says about it if she thinks it's I would I mean it's in alignment with the training we do for phys with physical restraints like would never I mean if you work at Circle K or Walmart they're going to not let you run out because somebody's taking something so you probably shouldn't be doing the same thing at school putting yourself in danger or something like that right give me my pencil [Laughter] sharpener I'm gonna go I want to go back up because I'm now I'm not sure like in like when we were like what's the practice for the telling the kids about the discipline I was like oh I know I know we have that so do we have a process for um parent
051notification for confinement so my so my understanding from reading this was just that um if you have a student who it is anticipated in the course of their learning they will need to be confined like in those specialized programs there has to be some not like there and it says the superintendent is the one that has to ensure that that these things exist and also so I see the second one um the teacher yes the teacher shall make reasonable attempts to notify the people's parent regarding and writing by the end of the same day that confinement was used that it is my experience that when a student was confed in a classroom that the parents are notified by the end of the day yes it is but I'm saying like the first sentence says before
052confinement the whole the part with the end of the day that's like an exemption if it's like imminent harm to themselves that is B my understanding is that's basically the only time that confinement is used right is that there there's a student that imminent physical harm to himself or others and so pretty much all the time it'll just be that same day so so do we want to I I'm I'm really concerned I I not that I'm not really about the conversation except that that wording that's in here is based on an old version of the regulations of the of the law yeah because the statutes used to really speak to and use the phrasing like imminent danger of bodily harm to self or others um it used to talk about how and and I
053thought and I didn't know and I I don't know if that's still in the regulations like with restraints and seclusion like they have have to have that immin be immin danger bodily harm we have to stop those practices as soon as they no longer pose that that threat of imminent danger bodily harm um it then it also spoke to the requirements of um parent notification and I'm wondering old regulation had all that well or I don't know if it's the old regulation or if there's a different regulation that speaks to that that this isn't referencing and I want to make sure I'll go to our board dos and see what I can find right now I can find I mean ultimately I'm just wondering no but I I just I don't know if we have
054those or what we're doing and do we need to change it let me see if it's somewhere else because I know I know what you're talking about and that's when that's the only time I've done so would I look for the word confinement or should I look for a different word well the word used to be seclusion seclusion okay and then and restraint it was restraint and seclusion okay do we want to move on while Katie look oh here we go jld DB restraint and seclusion there go so it's a whole separate policy yeah okay and B bodily harm to people or others less restrictive interventions then can I and is that on our list of policies I mean it's part of the umbrella so we could make might I can I recommend that we
055table the conversation on confinement and of like this section until we work on that policy and so we can make sure that there's an appropriate alignment and or we understand what the distinction is between the two I think that's sound what can you tell me the policy jld DB jld DB yeah is that part of our group right now so it's under the J's it's just not under JK but we said and related policies so because confinement is referring to this I assume we could we can add it to the next one I just looked at Hilda and she said yes so Hilda says yes and then it looks like there's some attached exhibits there's exhibits a through D which are like forms yeah which we're in the process of drafting new forms any as
056a district at the district level anyway so okay okay um I'd also like to point out that it is 6:29 and we had agendized um having the um public comment read before as a part of our conversation even though it's not going to be related to the can everyone's comfortable I think if we go till s we could easily finish this whole policy and then have the comment at the end read the comment at the end and say okay next time we're doing dress code which is fine I'm just I'm just I'm just bringing us all the work to totally yeah I just want to make sure that the comment is read because it was applied to this so is everyone actually it applies to the policy we're not getting to tonight yeah but if
057somebody submits it for this Mee absolutely absolutely well and we agendized doing it in the middle of this conversation once we were live anyway so got it um so is everyone saying half um so the next one is threatened an educational institution and my comment was does this apply K8 yes yes and so what kti what are some examples of threaten educational students I say threatening to cause physical injury like for example threatening to kill a student or staff member right um so tring to cause damage so I don't I don't disagree with that I just have my followup is isn't there true threats right and true threats are pretty clearly defined constitutionally well not clearly defined but I think it's hard the younger you are to be making true threats and so you have
058a good you know what I mean good because there question to bring up there we all know that first grader situation in the other state with the the gun and all that stuff so I guess my question is if it does apply K8 how does that align with the I I thought it was law that you can't go and suspend a kid below seven that's not a suspension I'm just asking the question okay okay so what I'm just saying is that like th this law for like the actual 2911 has no exceptions it's just a law that exists right it would just apply to like whatever other laws exist about about like Prosecuting people depending on their age so generally speaking if you're under eight you're not going to get adjud you're not going to
059be in the juvenile adjudication system like that's just because you have to be like competent to be adjudicated so if you're under eight you're not getting like a case um if you're between the ages of 8 and 14 you're going to be in the juvenile system for the most part and then if you're 15 or over you have the chance of being charged as an adult so that's kind of how the ages breakdowns work that's for 30 13 2911 as far as like 841 goes they referenced 2911 and so they're using all the definitions and saying like we're going to take everything that's in 2911 as a criminal law that applies to to people in the adult criminal world and also it also applies to juvenile adjudications we're going to take anybody who then it
060would be like eight through 99 or whatever 100 and whatever okay and use that in this context we're going to say all the same definitions that are from the statute are just going to apply here basically so then then it is possible that is K8 it doesn't yeah it's just like they're not going to have criminal liability at a certain age my recommendation would be to make that clear in in that part of the policy because I I I'm sure I'm not the only one that get confused about that just double check because I don't think it this part was like as a part of that because that was only referring to the expulsions when it you know yep because I'm sure someone else will be thinking wait you know is this something that is
061possible because you know XY so yeah so like if you go to subsection h of 15841 it say its own subsection right and um it says a school district or Charter School shall expel from school for at least one year a pupil who is determined to have threatened an educational institution except that the school district May modify this expulsion requirement for a people on a case-by casee basis if the people participates in mediation community service restitution or other programs in which the pupil takes responsibility for the results of the threat this subsection shall be conru consistently with the requirements of id idea and a school district May reassign a pupil who subject to expulsion pursuant to the subsection to an alternative education program if the pupil participates in mediation blah blah blah those things and
062then they also may require a pup's parent or Guardian to participate in those in those kinds of programs as long as they take responsibility for the threat and then then they say for purposes of the subsection threaten an educational institution means basically everything find in 13 2911 and then they list it out so I'm not seeing where it like gives an age limit question just for my yeah definitely not there's no definitely no age Li for my information does this mean that a school could if a student like threatened the educational a school could require counseling as a remediation I mean it technically I think really I mean participate in mediation community service restitution or other programs in which the people takes responsibility I have referred to this policy in the past when a student
063posted a gun on social media and like a vague threat um as a way of inspiring some action on that instance and I think this is you know it's required by law seems like the language is is a copy of the statute I don't see a reason to you know change anything here move on that's good to know yeah and then um how can you require that though well the alternative is exposion yeah it's like if you don't want to be expelled you can do something to not be expelled well like I said my only comment is if that is K8 then I'd like it clearly spelled like a K8 student or some just some indication in there that there's no confusion about whether or not especially since other places we have definite one thing
064I did think about that I wanted to maybe do and I don't know where we could do put this but like um I don't know if it goes in the glossery or what but essentially explaining what some of these things could be like examples that judges have said no yes this is this is an example that meets the burden for this and no this isn't enough for this to be a threat or Interruption Ro and okay let me I added a line that says for any so threaten educational student means for any student K8 to interfere with or disrupted everyone like that sounds good Katie can we resolve your other comment there yeah I'm editing it so I can remind myself oh okay what these instances all right moving down past regulating off-campus speech so
065I was going off of the May okay um but I added things that like we actually are really struggling with as a district and I wanted to see like if if this could be expanded a little bit um so we have kids who will like impersonate other kids on social media um and they'll like create like a burn account basically under that kid's name and as of right now we're just well maybe that's not on our campus um the I'm gon I'm gonna tell you specifically and then see what you think because I feel like it's really limited but like violating criminal law so like it'll be a kid that we think has like possession like we think has a vape or whatever and like we know that he has access to the Vapes because
066like there's his social media he's got a picture of him like smoking um so being able to so that one that was like the most like broad but um the f out for a fight on Camp like they have a fight after like on Monday afternoon and then Tuesday we like find out that they are like gonna like fight again about it a rematch like a re exactly they want to like have a rematch and so they'll beef from that school during the day yes tension is high but it's all about what they're going to do outside of the campus and what we've done and how our work around currently is like that you like your after school fight created such a disruption to this learning environment now that now we can punish but it
067would be kind of nice if it was like well also per policy that we're I think we're responsible for them until they get home yeah so it would be nice to have it more clearly labeled like if a fight happens off off of campus with two of our students you may so my I think that's pretty clearly established under the law that's something they can still get in trouble for my recommendation for is to n three and for four I say instigating planning or participating in a fight between others well and that's the thing is yes so okay and that was the other one is that what they'll do is they will they're they're like getting on social media um and they like truly are just being like I heard like James is gonna fight
068Adam in the parking lot and then like the other like then they will like going back and forth and so it's like all of a sudden we don't care he's pretty confident he can take you overa he probably can um so those are things that we are often struggling with um in the school environment they are very disruptive to the day yeah yet nobody believes that we have any right to getting them in trouble and I would like to I think instigating or planning a fight between others while they're on campus is not in this policy but squarely within a different issue right if they're like at school planning something for later I think you can intervene and that that actually doesn't fall under this policy because they're not doing off- campus speech right they're
069talking about something they're going to do later um as as far as like a Fallout of a fight on campus I don't know I I think I think we I think we go instigating planning or participating in a fight between instead of saying between others in a fight with other students right essentially right because they're you know kid wants to go fight their dad at home I just don't even know fighting is I don't think fighting is a form of speech is the issue I'm getting at and so I think the only thing you could talk about is like if they're plan a fight but this would be this section would be if they're planning the fight off campus right like well if they're off campus and having the conversation and I was just social
070media we could say we say instigating planning or promoting a fight between themselves or others so a student but that would just be off campus right I don't know it's we're trying to Target social media right so so for example recording a fight filming it and posting it would be you know participating in or promoting a fight that happened even if it was off campus and honestly last number one would be super helpful if we could it's hard to catch them but kids are using like our school logos or they're using like yeah look up Gateway ships I bet you have one of those um GW confessions I bet you have we' had a like a TCA TCA confession oh that's a whole another thing with like using your guys's inos and I and I
071tell the kids like you once youve like like you're involving Us in this there is nothing in the in the policy that like if you were if we actually find out you're the owner of the that's something I think that's definitely under this section that you could ask because that's actual speech the fight thing so many from such a weird thing to do there's tons oh James there's even like gross I think that's something you definitely can and should add into this yeah I don't the fight thing is just like the weird thing where and I get what you're saying but it even if you're if you're planning the fight on campus then it's not off campus speech you know so if let's say they go home yeah they make a thing that says I'm
072gonna fight you or whatever sorry yeah and um the you know you call home parents like well that was at 4:30 they're at home they can do whatever they want at home yeah it's it's the it's the actual posting of it that I was thinking would be under here because you're right that's exactly what they do they're realistically they don't make usually make social media posts during not always sometimes but they don't usually make posts but these are definitely problems I think all the campuses are struggling with and it' be nice to have it it be addressed somewhere even if it's not here I just thought it would I definitely think the first one is something you could address especially yeah I think that's something you can address and if you extended that instead of
073just personating another student on social media to be impersonating impersonating other individuals or organizations yeah now we've dealt with all of all of that stuff that we were just talking about yep um we've had situations at our school where people make like a fake account of somebody at home and like start a fight with someone and then that person will go to fight that student the next day they'll have no idea what it's about oh because it's whole separate kid made an Instagram with their name and their picture and that's what I'm I was gonna say that's like the student version of swatting St verion of swatting you get those kids that they know will fight anyone reliable SW team yeah they know how to spot them I guess that's just mean it's very well
074then it's like those are mean man yeah they're rough because then you don't know who to believe because it looks it looks like the other student is the one instigating the fight um I don't so it's been a long time since I've been up to date on like First Amendment stuff with schools but generally First Amendment stuff like yeah I don't I think that's something you could put it in we could run it by Jessica I still think that there's might be an issue with that one fall like the like like the stuff that's like planned off campus and takes place off campus you know what I'm saying yeah that's where it's hard because it's if it's not something you can really draw attention to during the school day a lot of so counting it
075it's a disruption disruption yeah so they will they'll fight somebody go videotape it the video like that I don't know so yeah they definitely it's just because this is talking about actually regulating their speech so it would you would have to be not disciplining them for looking at a video in class you'd have to be disciplining them for actually making that video and sharing it or outside of school if they're sharing it in school sure you got already a mechanism to deal with that but if this is would be like if I went to a fight at the park I recorded it and I posted it on my social media and now you're punishing me at school for it but nothing happened at school and this was on my own personal social media and I
076posted it at home like that's where that's what this is talking about regulating off campus speech in that way um I and I think when you do have those other fallouts you have other mechanisms for addressing I think those issues ktie I mean great example let's say that happens fight happens at the park record it post it kids watch it at home they come to school and then there is a shouting match in the classroom between several students about yes now you could punish the kids who have the shouting match but realistically what about the kid that is sharing the video and promoting this fight unfortunately I don't know that we have much control over that and I'm just being really honest and I think that and I think like I think the way Allan's
077wording the other thing too might be a little far I liked the student because it was like School related might be a little broad to list it as other individuals because that could go to like anybody or any students and staff student staff and or yeah yeah student staff and orri because then you could like get punished for imperson some Rando that has nothing to do with the school and that's not what Our intention is yeah um that this is like uh I'm sorry not that I don't like meanwhile I have a problem with all of part C okay failure to follow rules concerning lessons coning lessons the writing of papers the use of computers participation in other online school activities I don't understand how failing to follow rules is um regulating off-campus speech um
078play anybody so you could say so I think if I had to guess what they are targeting is let's say a bunch of kids at 4:30 went to the park and said none of us are training in our homework tomorrow we're all gonna you know ditch class tomorrow it's ditch day right um things like that right which could be yeah I had is plagiarism too is it the writing of papers and lessons the what is the use or sharing like somebody yeah shares the lesson outside of school yeah I guess you know what I mean yeah someone send somebody got the worksheet key and they're setting it out I think the computers just dated I think it was like this is old this is very old and I don't understand I'm trying to go to
079I'm gonna go to title I don't understand how it has anything to do with regulating offc the speech I'm gonna go here and search for this like term and see if whatever they were trying to con Beyond confusing now off canus speech I agree with youing to follow rules concerning lessons like that sounds it must be play I lessons to me feels like a let's not all turn in our homework there don't do about it type thing and I thought it yeah I thought it was like if you like again plagiarism like if you posted your answers well that's the writing of papers I think that makes sense should they just say plagiarism then it's a fun R but plagi but our role in terms of plagiarism is is only if they're turning it in
080as work like if they're passing trying to pass it off as work for us to assess and and evaluate if they're just posting stuff online or whatever they're doing like and claiming that like I wrote this poem that like well that was TSLA what are you talking about like I don't I don't think like I mean want let them live their life you know just saying no it was me want strike through C I think we can strike through it for now I'm just trying to see if it's a statute but I don't even see it anywhere um well there's no statute we got 12 minutes if there's anything that talks about regulating off campus speech what about breaches of school security devices uh that makes sense to me yeah yeah okay let's keep that
081also should we put um wait okay it's off campus never mind well again how wait hold on how is breaches of school security devices an off Camp bring maybe because if you're home you could hack into the computer system at school and change the grades is that speech yeah well no so I mean here is an example is like let's say a student goes home and says hey guys here's how you jailbreak your school iPad and they post a guide on Instagram on how to jailbreak their school iPad so can't we just say if they do if they do anything that that tells people how to do things illegally that impact the school I mean that's what we're talking that's what we're getting at here yeah well these are circumstances that implicate the district's off-campus
082Reg regulatory interests so if the if if a school security device is breached then that implicates our off-campus regulatory interests we look at a students off campus speeny there's an attorney general opinion from 1989 that says students may be expelled for committing crimes off campus but for me to find that would probably take me to go to like the archives or something I we I creative the kids are preaching school security Li okay so they are though so let me see I would put them on njs for that but we have kids who are breaking into um they're like hacking other kids parent views because they're figuring out their passwords and they're going through their stuff so that's not school security devices but I think maybe that made me think like maybe we need to
083add like well and again that's a violation of of expectations of being a student in the school anyway whether that's off campus or in campus like it's also a crime let's just Google seems like a random like what are they looking for in parent view can we okay here's my thing can we table this and come back to like let come back to this because it's we're taking too long to figure our comment that says come back after figuring out what all this means that's a lovely comment um okay so the last one last thing to talk about for this policy for now um the district may take affirmative steps to work with student short of discipline to engageing Future respectful and accountable digital C digit digital citizenship um can we remove can we remove
084shorter discipline I think so from what I see in this I don't see this is just something in there that's not from a statute so that's why I also put we can probably do a better job here well and also this policy is student discipline it's not student expectations yeah I don't know what this is what I would like to say can we maybe we just double check that there's a comparable expectation the student the student in the other policy where we listed out yeah some of those things related digital relating to digital citizenship and then I'm totally okay with taking it out of year I don't know with TR I haven't looked or anything but we do need I think dive into like what is digital citizenship because it kind of brings back the
085like do we have a thing that says do not there's nothing in jic that says dig citizenship there's nothing J I see that talk about let me check ji digital no no digital that would be the same thing like stealing their past there's nothing in either of the policies we've previously looked at about this about digital citizenship just or off campus speech I feel like that's something that's important to have I think we I think we really I mean you could just I mean if your school has an expectation to be respectful and kind and you're not being respectful and kind digitally that's I you know I feel like we have things that can catch that without spelling it out on purpose or explicitly yes I'm sure we do because we're managing right and we
086don't have it currently and we're doing this time but I do feel like there's a lot of stuff that comes up about the iPads and using the iPads and it would be super helpful if we had something especially with the idea that like taking away the iPads not quite be allowed so like if we had things about like going to the wrong websites all throw out there I hate the iPads and I don't think we should one where the kids take them around everywhere you know so you're suggesting we add a policy that is I was suggesting that that we make sure that it's somewhere sits somewhere in jir under the student rights and responsibilities and if we don't have that they have they right they have a responsibility to to relate to digital s
087whatever wording we want to do with that um that that's what I was where I was suggesting that it live all right responsibility JK is a conduct right yeah what did you call it J what so it's ji which is the students rights and expectation and then in that document we also have jir which is the student rights and responsibilities just want to capture so yep let's make sure we rehit let's go back to J and add something about digital citiship and then for this can we just remove it I guess well if it's whatever we think but if we remove it from the student discipline will we I feel like we need to get to the N it the iPad like managing the iPads is nightmar and but but is is that an issue
088of policy or is that an issue of practice well I think my my only thought is that when we have policy to back our practice it's it's helpful it's stronger it's clear it's more consistent well I appreciate that but we don't have like we don't have specific policies about every potential student Behavior that's fair so sorry I'm laughing at something I'm reading so my my question in our thinking as we wrap up this conversation because like right we're getting close to being done getting out of here so is when we talk about student discipline like at to what degree do we want to be speaking about every potential student behavior and how we're that we and therefore we need to discipline it or is it falling under something and I'm not I don't know the
089answer to that I'm just suggesting the question I see your point and I I mean you're disciplining iPads and like navigating that so much that I feel like that actually might still be past that threshold where it's like you're right I would say iPads is like probably like the third biggest like issue which is which right and that that I wondering if that's then is it a I don't know maybe is it its own policy or is it its own regulation that's very explicit to that if it's that complic if it's that necessary I don't know well it sounds like we are not resolving this in five minutes right I'll add that I just added a document into our share Drive called off campus speech scotus case it's from 2021 um it'd be interesting for
090you to take a look at it but essentially um yeah it's about this girl posting all the stuff to Snapchat about her school because she didn't make the cheerleading team or something I don't even know yeah but BAS basically they're saying that like first a school will rarely stand in local parentice when a student speaks off campus and that second a student from this from the speaker's perspective regul regulations of off-campus speech when coupled with regulations of oncampus speech include all the speech that a student utters during the full 24-hour day and that means courts must be more skeptical of a students efforts um I'm sorry a school's efforts to regulate off-campus speech for doing so may mean the student cannot engage in that kind of speech at all so finally the school at self
091has an interest in protecting a student's unpopular expression especially when the expression takes place off campus Because America's public schools are the nurseries of democracy um so can we can we start our next meeting right above regulating off campus speech so yeah so basically they found that this kind of speech was um was protected and that the school district's decision to suspend her was unconstitutional all right so next and that her speech did not cause a substantial disruption to harm or threaten the rights of others I don't want to cram james' style but I just moving us along um next meeting we are starting right above off regulating off campus speech and we then we are handling dress code would we like to read the I just I think you're moving faster than we are
092oh next it sounds like next meeting we are starting right above regulating off- campus speech and we're g to finish this last little bit up and then we're going to do dress code right oh I was gonna say I feel like [Music] we I feel like what was left of this was stuff that was like are we starting a whole brand new thing so I don't think we've s a lot of the stuff that's listed in there yeah there's a lot going on I think we just need to start back here next time so we're starting at regulating off-campus speech Yes and then then moving to dress code which is j i c a r and then would we like to read the public comment before I wrap up I'm just writing down what you
093said huh I said we do need to because we have we have one we have one public comment about dress code oh okay yeah I can do this after okay all right uh so the public comment this is a public comment that was uh submitted today and uh do I have to should I read the the the like who it was and all that stuff okay so the comment is from Andrew Cho he a seventh grade math teacher at William T Mackin school and I'll just read it as is says hello I am a seventh grade teacher at Mackin school for the past three years I'm writing to urge this committee to change the policy on uniforms in my experience students and staff have engaged in power struggles on a nearly daily basis throughout the
094school year over uniforms in the Middle School when starting the year all teachers staff and students are enthusiastic about following the school policies and sweating the small stuff however as soon as that initial stamina wears off uniforms are the first area that students push back on in the vast majority of cases students choice of dress does not pose a distraction or obstacle to the learning environment however what does create a distraction or obstacle is the power struggle over enforcing the uniform policy I believe students choice of dress in the grades 6 through eight should be encouraged as a healthy way of self-expression currently the policy that the principle must lead the initiative itive to get parent and staff input and approval on the policy change at Mackin the principal has not initiated this process in
095the past decade while all other schools in the district have amended their policies a districtwide procedure and policy regarding the middle school that fits and supports the trend at the majority of the schools would be most appropriate for the goals of support our students learning in our district that's the end thank you Andrew I could have written that myself okay so can I tojn thank you can I get a second second all those in favor I meeting adjourned