001uh bringing the meeting to order it's the governing board advisory committee to review policies call to order uh the agend agenda should be uh you should have received the agenda already um when you're ready i' appreciate it if someone could give a motion to approve the agenda please I move to approve the agenda as presented second all those in favor motion passes uh next item is a call to the audience uh for uh to have a uh public comments uh for accepted in person or in email do we have any no subed okay uh the next part is the bulk of the agenda item itself uh we have the policies that we've been going over and uh According to some of the notes that I had uh that were sent to you before we had
002um uh decided that we're going to go and focus primarily on policy JK which should be posted in your drive um we also had a couple of tabled items uh that we can uh continue to table or we can revisit uh depending on how uh the committee feels about uh our progress and stuff so I guess I that's my open-ended question do we want to dig into uh what we're currently working on or do we want to revisit table items suggestions are appreciated um I would like to go back I think with like two things to look at at the previous policy I'd like to just go resolve those before we move on to something else is that uh jir is that what you're referring to I think so J oh J I was the
003one that we were working on that I was wasn't sure if we finished I the student rights and expectations yes I don't think dra I'm not sure did we the responsibilities portion of that page um um I think we did actually I was goingon to say I don't see any unresolved comments we did it was just those things that we didn't get to finish so circling back um do we want to move forward with um with JK or does anybody else have a suggestion or recommendation there've been um I know there have been several people that have put in comments in JK already uh we can kind of take some time to review those and then go and start it or whatever your little heart desires we got like I think my my little heart
004would just want to just make sure that everybody is okay with um a through C of the responsibilities because we were working off of one that I had kind of already manipulated and so A1 or a and A2 were once together all those like um and I added something to it and then same with B I broke up added and then C I added quite a bit so as long as everyone was okay with a through c as it currently and you're back on ji you're on ji yeah I I would really like to resolve everything on ji before we move on just so we can be done with it we can say this is done we don't have to revisit it it'll probably take us 15 minutes yeah I recall we had um am
005I looking at something there was something we were supposed to Circle back to and I don't know if it was like definition of progressive or there something there was a few things yeah well those are referring back to my understanding is those are referring back to some of the tabled items that we were looking at Define equitability progressive proportional logical and uh when is a restorative experience obligated in the process those were the two things that were connected to that that's my understanding yep I'd like to talk about those for a bit I don't see it on the document though itself I had it in my notes but on ji am I looking at a different document no on Ji we have there's some comments do you see any of the comments on ji no
006draft one ji Ed and then there's which one is that apparently I have two there's one called committee draft one is that the one that you created or is that the one that Adriana created that's the one you created right look at all the ones that say committee draft one ji draft ji edits that's in there that was that was yours it was like an all blank one for people to just have oh and then we started going off gotcha okay sounds awesome and I can delete ji to be honest yeah I would appreciate that cuz um that confused me Nicole I forgot if we talked about this last time but defining defining things we wanted to put in the glossery are you okay with me resolving this and adding to the glossery sure okay's
007resolve and then this at the bottom and then go with this very with this one very comment on the top that Nicole added about students have the right to be themselves and unafraid on all cating campuses I feel like this is right represented in the student rights and responsibilities is that somewhere I just see it all by itself was that something that was like a prefer preface to the the policy I think sorry I'm trying to get logged on to the internet no you're good um cool Nicole at the top you put like a it looks like a preface almost where it says like students have a right to right yeah I think um let pull it up on my screen um looks like this yeah yeah I my line of thinking was to kind
008of have an opener that was um like under rights and expectations like you know the rights to to to feel safe to be respected and then n because then that incorporates into like okay so then when it comes to your conduct you know are you are you infringing on every on somebody else's right to be respected and be safe um that makes sense I feel like that is represented more like in more detail at the bottom where it says these rights include physical safety and emotional well-being okay yeah and I think that that was like one of the first things I threw on there so I didn't even get to the bottom yet so I'm sure had I gotten to the bottom I would been like oh it's not necessary my bad I must have
009not seen this last time the second yeah I'm still I'm still kind of trying to play catchup with good everything so all right now we got to talk about this paragraph in the middle um last time we talked there were four words that would be very actionable although needing a definition logical Equitable proportional and Progressive so I you know I went and talked to some teachers and teachers really like having language that is actionable when it comes to discipline because sometimes we get discipline that is not any of these things sometimes we don't get discipline at all when students um violate like sort of the school rules or school policies yeah Daniel can I ask I think that you're getting to the meat of the work of the the meat of the tonight's work it
010sounds like we wanted to go to like the table topics but can we just make sure that the the a through whatever we went through if everyone was good with that because then we'll be able to say like done um so before we start with the conversation of what we'll Define is yeah actually I'm so sorry no you're good are you guys okay with what's under responsibilities a through C and just to be clear is what's on the screen what y'all are talking about right now okay okay sorry I'm trying to get it so that the viewers any viewers externally can see what you're seeing for some reason I'm just getting black do I need to extend display or something is that [Music] no I switch to Apple TV it shows regular Apple TV but
011you're connected VI HDMI so maybe somebody else could airplan oh wait no have the same docum presented um and Vanessa presented at the laste I don't have well if anyone's watching you can go on thee draft ji edits document and see what's happening right now as they speak yeah so you just mean c as well because there's no C2 I see C1 and C2 yeah there's a C1 and a C2 C2 is students have the right to safe and clean facilities those are those we went through already I I'm so sorry guys I was talking about the responsibility section but but let's answer your question about that okay um I wanted to specify that our but I don't know if it's how necessary it is since I believe it's already federal law but that are
012accessible to like disabilities or or you know folks of all abilities needs or yeah have the right to access have the right to access have the right to safe and clean facilities safe clean and accessible facilities there you go or I like that thank you I don't have a problem with that but can you explain your thought process about accessible yeah um so yeah I think that that may need to be somewhat specifi like distinguished like accessible um to um this not despite but accessible to those of all physical abilities you're you're kind of referencing like the the Ada yeah yeah so that's why I'm like wait if it's already like a federal law do we need to specify that I actually like this um Nicole because something could theoretically be ADA Compliant but not
013accessible I mean you know for example you could have a wheelchair lift somewhere but the wheelchair lift is always broken and so we never use it or it's always closed off yeah because we do have a like the elevator at our school just the one in one building shouldn't it say ada8 compliant that because really what you're talking about is accessible in terms of ADA right yeah yeah I mean I don't not sure how the are not sure that would need to I mean SE several of the other policies will reference laws and stuff so I don't think it's inappropriate to kind of just put that in there as a reminder yeah I think that's fine too whatever what language do we have no adequately accessible I I agree I think we have it in
014there however my Wonder is if you read this you don't know that we're talking about differently able to people having accessible bathrooms do you do you know what I'm saying like right now like as a so I'm just wondering if we need to identify like students with if we need to even clarify that's what we mean because I don't think I don't think that you would read this necessary and be accessible and think that we are talking about our students in wheelchairs you might think that we just mean that they have access to them I didn't think well but I think that's a good thing though because I mean there could be a student who's not necessarily disabled but for some other reason needs a bathroom to be accessible right um like for example we
015keep it but then I think that we we can keep it like that but I think that what you're trying to get at is know regardless of your ability or your disability we will have safe facilities for you and I don't think you read that and think that yeah when reading it like this I think oh it's it's unlocked yeah that's yeah so I think that almost would need to be like a like just a I guess a SE students have the right to safe and clean facilities that are also accessible we just just use the phrasing ADA Compliant like James said what do you think um I think we're splitting hairs unnecessarily um because the these rights are the rights of all students period so um you know we start getting into and it's
016and I think it's going to be important especially as we keep moving forward right we talked we've already talked about things need to be developmentally appropriate and like we I we've used that kind of language elsewhere I think right this is the same kind of thing I don't know if it needs to say Ada accessible because that also just says we're only focused on kids with hand with dis people with disability or students with disabilities which is also I think short sighted right it's all students have a right to whatever have accessible facilities okay and whatever that means for the individual student I think is probably we're it's right we're IND this policy is indicating the superintendent needs to make sure there are procedures in place to ensure that this stuff exists I think that
017that those details live in this in the procedures of the superintendent overseas yeah okay okay Megan yeah I do feel the word accessible is weird there like clean and accessible facilities I feel like safe and clean facilities are not that are accessible to I don't know I but I like feel like if I was an outsider coming into this students have the right to safety and accessible facilities okay yeah I think if I I get what you're saying so safe and clean facilities maybe someplace else if need a facilities I think yeah I guess it doesn't fall under in hearing what you're saying we've identified St like it's basically if we Define students as all students regardless of their abilities then we could take out the accessible but to ensure that people know that we
018could have just Define students like any child who participated in our school regardless of and then that kind of will save us from this conversation moving forward because if it says students we know we're talking about all of them right right I mean I you know everybody's going to come into this with their own lens and I don't know they we'll come up with the exact wording that's going to be perfectly written for 100% of people's lenses that's the challenge of writing policy exactly students have the right to access safe and clean facilities I like that somebody like dude I can't access it I like that whether they pack it up the stairs or that it's always broken I like that too yeah okay perfect y high five okay so bottom of page four are
019we good does it need to be C2 or or do we the reason I have it written at C2 is just because if um if they were once things that were together I separated like these were these were somehow like you were physically safe and you had a clean building and so I had separated them okay re Reed So eventually that'll be D andow would be we'll do that in the final con so we're moving to responsibilities now is that what you're asking yeah because I just didn't recall that we had a conversation about them and I just wanted to um I don't want to have a unintentional outsized like I did this and nobody knew about it um so just I separated a few things from like 8 what bottom of page four looks
020good to me page four okay go Team all right good okay so circling back to is it at the top where uh on page btom page two bottom of page two revisiting that conversation yep so just to confirm did you have it's it's written up there at the bottom of page two but the ones that we were wanting to look at were Progressive discipline Equitable logical and proportionate yep and yep Progressive logical equital proportional and then using the word disciplinary versus the word corrective so I feel like feel like that one's an easier one right disciplinary versus corrective so do we want to start there I feel strongly that the word disciplinary should be in here because I think we talked last time a corrective is saying like saying hey don't do that is corrective
021whereas this policy is specifically referring to dis lary action so things that would be considered as extrem as suspension or as expulsion but also as minor as help clean up after lunch or you know whatever and in saying it and I don't know that I I'm trying to figure out if I agree or disagree um but in saying that is is your application of those two words like teachers do corrective actions and administrators do disciplinary actions I mean I think that is reflective of what I'm talking about but that was not my intention okay well I'm I'm Wonder because I I I would I I believe that like a teacher correcting a child's behavior is a form of discipline it is an imposed action taken by by somebody it can be as react so I
022mean and again I guess it's what's the what's the definition I'm I'm I'm not arguing one way or another for the wording I'm just trying well because like for I think last time I used the example of if I send a kid out of my room that is dis disciplinary right um but if I'm just like hey could you pick up the trash that you dropped I that is more corrective right I feel like um again thinking about what are things I would call home for thinking about what are things that I would create paperwork for those all be disciplinary do you so in your mind corrective and disciplinary are two separate things yes do they like what Allan was uh implying or saying do you feel like they also in two different worlds and
023what I mean by that is like what he was saying is one teacher managed and one office managed is that how you see it no there's overlap right like I think again if I send a kid out of my room like at at my school we we use a behavior lad so you get a reminder which I would say is corrective you get a warning like a verbal warning which I would say is corrective you get a hallway conversation which again there's no paperwork I'm not talking to anyone I'm just talking to a private area I would say that's corrective because throughout that entire process if the kid just goes oh I'm sorry bless you oh I'm sorry I won't do that uh then they've corrected their action there's no discipline and then eventually if
024I talk to them in the hall they continue their behavior I send them out of the room with a reflection sheet I have to call home I would say that that point is disciplinary right I have removed them from the classroom for whatever reason I'm contacting home right have you guys considered maybe just putting them both in there and then having them both in the glossery corrective and disciplinary actions I I don't I don't have an issue with that for me I've learned a lot about this in the last couple of weeks and uh I um I I guess it's it's kind of important to for me it's kind of important to think about like the spectrum of it um in terms of like when does that Spectrum go from teacher to office and also
025I think it's also important to uh recognize um sort of the philosophy uh behind what you're trying to accomplish right um and I've had this conversation a couple of times with people about how um there's uh the this idea of um your uh your your what your goal is right if if your if your goal is punitive or your goal is consequence um I I think that that kind of sets up a dynamic that is um in a direction of um a a linear spectrum and and at one end it's this kid is no longer part of the learning community and at the other end they're a vibrant um inclusive uh learning student and uh I think what is concerning to me is if that is the linear Dynamic it doesn't um it doesn't encourage
026other things and um I'm not saying that they're not extreme situations where um suspension and expulsion are uh are not uh part of the conversation um I just I I know like right now what what is really important to me is trying to find things that are our options uh to uh try to because we do really well or excuse me some people do really really well with consequences and things like that but we don't always do so well with the teaching aspect right you assume a kid knows better um but sometimes they don't Sometimes they come from dysfunctional families where things like that are not necessarily a priority so um we as an educational institution we teach math reading and writing but we I I we don't always do a good job of teaching
027discipline and I think that uh that that's just a worry I'm not I'm not against any of this it's just I think words matter and um it worries me that uh we whether we like it or not as an educational institution I feel like if we believe in the success of our kids we have to have that be part of the philosophy that's my so box sorry all right yeah now I believe I'm probably the one who put corrective on there um because again I was trying to kind of stray away from the verbiage that's more kind of tied in with like that school to prism pipeline but I just did a quick Google on corrective versus disciplinary and so it's got me rethinking so I'm just going to do this this first one that
028popped up corrective actions also attempt to improve or modify unacceptable Behavior formal actions taken when corrective measures fail to correct previous problems disciplinary actions are also taken when the seriousness of the offense warrant more formal measures so I think yeah they're different and so but perhaps we keep them both in there um so students who impact others negatively or break Community agreements of the district or their school community may face corrective action s or and or disciplinary measures that are logical Equitable and then dot dot dot and I think the issue is is that a lot of folks probably associate discipline uh sorry disciplinary and punitive with the same thing and that's not always exactly the case and so I think as long as you're defining it the way youall want to Define it in
029the glossery then everything should be okay the word the word that was recommended to me was instead of like consquences or disciplines it's outcomes I know that's not always a word that people would feel is specific but the idea is that you're trying to go and have options uh for uh they call them natural consequences right it's a PBIS thing where there's something that they can go through and do but I I don't know I I'm I'm torn by that there are some things about PBIS that I like there's some things about PBIS that I'm a little apprehensive about too too so I don't know I see both sides I think that a nice compromise would be for us to go ahead and put corrective and or disciplinary actions because I think that there's like
030there's space in a kid's learning um and in a kids growing to do both of those things and I'd also like to suggest that we cons we stop considering dis like disciplinary things to be the punitive part the one that makes the kid feel bad about what they're doing because in restorative practices it's about like the repairing harm and so the discipline isn't isn't intended to just be like you feel so negatively about what you did you won't do it again it is to correct the behavior so there's inherently an element of Correction that's happening in discipline um but maybe it's like they're both rectangles but a corrective is a square is that is what I'm trying to say yes so I I I worry that when we I worry that part of this conversation
031is making it sound like well we got to discipline them because they got to feel punished and I don't think that's at the heart of what we're trying to do when we work with kids so I I would vote for both in there and I be thoughtful about um I agree my one caveat is that the second sentence that says in conjunction with any action students have the right to restorative experience that should be disciplinary and not corrective I would agree if because there like we talked about there's lots of little tiny corrective things that happen all throughout the day and you know Mr L you talked to me in the hall where's my restorative experience that doesn't mesh as well with a disciplinary action right that kind of relates to our other tabled item
032which is when does restorative experience become part of the part of the uh process oh obligated in the process we have some consensus here on what we just talked about I'm fine with it um I want to transition sort of so after our first meeting um I got to have a uh sit down and have a talk with our um Is it child Justice advocate so and that was a great experience I also had a chat with another parent who was following this um the meeting and so so here we go so her from the parent like her thought was like you know when you're talking about restorative Justice and she's that got more experience with that than I do with knowledge wise she's like you know I think we keep re referring to restorative
033experience or restorative practice she's like no restorative justice is like it's an actual thing there's a layout there's a way to do it you have to be trained in it like and yeah it's works and it's great but it's not just a sprinkle on top it's not a restorative experience um pivoting into my conversation with their child Justice Advocate there's a good chance they're not going to be here next year and they're the ones who do that like they're the ones who get the kids together and and try to like like hey let's let's talk that's so my concern is if we're writing restorative justice or restorative practices into it but then our district cannot we don't even have anybody who can do that for them then where does that put it so I'd like
034to counter on the conversation that you might have had just um the intent the main job of that person is to be responsible for restorative practices in the school in no time were they supposed to be the person that was doing the restorative practices or the restorative experiences or restorative justice that that was not the intention of them so even if a school doesn't have those it's we're not investing in the person to make the thing happen we have the practice happening that the person was supporting well and also I mean Nicole's right though that if you have schools with no person in charge of restorative experiences it's not going to happen but all that means is that I as a teacher I'm just going to start writing Grievances and school district is going to
035have to figure it out because that's why when Jay was here I think it was two meetings ago it might have been the meeting before you sat in in person um when we put this language in I you know said to our superintendent hey just heads up this is not happening at all of our schools do we all understand that this is obligating a lot of Staff a lot of training and everyone said they were all on board for it so that to me if I don't think there's anyone higher than the superintendent and our board members so I mean if the superintendent and our board members say this is what should be happening then we have to just trust that they are going to make it happen right yeah and you know my experience
036and from the teachers and the folks I've talked to at our school like you know I know once once that you know there's going to be a I I don't know who's going to be taking care of that part of it you know like there's because you know we don't have a assistant principal and we I don't think we have a counselor like so it's going to be yeah but I mean I I as like someone like as a parent and and knowing what I know and having the kids in there and and hopefully you know I've got my eye of being on the board at some point like yeah I would love to see that in there because then we make it happen we don't figure it out but I just want to clarify
037also that the budget hasn't been passed yet and then that's like one of the top priorities for the board and so I wouldn't say that that's like a foreclosed or foregone thing that CJs are not going to be well hold on well hold on let's um I mean I would also just say just ual board member but I'm just put we have cjas at almost all of our schools right now and this is not and this is not happening at all of our schools and the program's been running for three years and it's not very sucess that's more of a concern so I I would also say I would also say similarly our school district is supposed to teach kids to read but a lot of our middle schools don't have reading interventionists or math
038interventionists so um I think getting some of these things in policy is a great first step to making sure that they're actionable and not just abstract desires I agree and I I feel a sense of obligation to just like make sure that we're all thoughtful about um the intention of the meeting and our intent is to put into pra put into place a framework for like what we want to happen and I think that it's important that we're all really thoughtful about um that our intent it doesn't always get us doesn't always score us a home run but that doesn't mean that people weren't playing the game as hard as they could yeah um it if I think that we have a ton of really hardworking people in the C school district and we just
039want to be really thoughtful that like even though we aren't being able to like create a product that everybody would be like yes this is working I think we need to be thoughtful about how we speak about the reality of the T that it does have well everyone is working very hard is important to consider what is happening in our schools when we're designing policy I agree and I just think we just need to speak speak about it in a way that's thoughtful of the the human the human people behind all of that go ahead s that's um so a few things number one we are not right now writing po writing a policy we're writing a um no we we are writing a regulation regulation does not have the weight the same weight that
040the actual policy does the reg the regulation is to be give more more direction to the superintendent it's more and it really is the this is what we're trying to get to it's not must do right now that's the first thing second thing is your friend is right we are not doing restorative justice um we have not not one I don't know one single incident of restorative justice having been done in this school in fact I would imagine that most schools don't use actual restorative justice maybe some high schools do but there are restorative practices that schools can adopt and that's what that's what we have integrated in many if not all of our schools at some level or another um because we will I don't know that we would ever have the capacity to
041do true restorative justice at the level that that that training and I'm trained for that so I I would never recommend as an Elementary District that we would do that at that level but um so I do think that whe whether it's experiences or restorative practice or whatever we want to word that there are I think the intent is that if there's a disciplinary action taken and we might want to even Define what kind of disciplinary action because when we as as the conversation we're just having there are things that might be considered disciplinary that maybe we're not wanting or needing to recommend that with but um the intent of the restorative experience of the restorative practices however we want want to word it is about rebuilding and reconnecting the relationships that were damaged by
042the behavior and so whether that's in a formal restorative justice process which I would not recommend or not I still think it's important that we are teaching kids that when you wrong someone that you need to take responsibility for your actions and start repairing that relationship that's in some way shape or form alen slight correction even though this is a regulation regulations are still subject to grievances for our grievance policy so this is not an aspiration this is if this is not happening I can file a grievance and within five days my immediate supervisor needs to respond to me as to why this regulation is not being followed okay I'm just going to do a friendly time check in because it's 5:45 and we're on the SE we're now at two and a half meetings
043on this policy and I know it's a really important conversation I just want to do a friendly time check in well move just moving forward does anyone have an issue with logical Equitable proportional or Progressive I do I also didn't have because if not I think we're actually done with this policy all right with the exception of glossery stuff there's a few items down at the bottom um open comments I don't know if those need to be resolved or they're just there for notes I these are just basically my weird notes about what I was doing when I read this is just telling you like hey we sudden we wanted to have this um here's a comment from Allan about I'm not sure that the research pairs this to be a true [Music] statement down
044at the bottom of page five okay so this so this statement came from up above before this is a this is a me statement um and what I was intending on doing was trying to explain um that like the discipline was I was trying to explain basically what we were just talking about so this was my first stab at it and his comment was like your stab wasn't great so we don't really need to resolve those we just know this was a first attempt and it's there okay I want to pause on erasing it though because when we come back to this do do we want do we want to close ji and move over to JK all right um do we want to take five and scroll through the JK and the comments and
045remind ourselves or you want get into it actually no I'd actually like to um propose that we do a new method for this one because when I was looking at it um it was hard for me to decipher um and not not by lack of clarity in the wording but just and like how these all Impact one another based on what Katie's comments were I think it was easier for me she had talked us through her edits first and then I did my own editing or not your edits but your comments comments so I would prefer that we actually have her go through her comments and ask questions about that that would be my vote maybe like a two minute break and after start yeah you guys you want to take a break if you
046need if people want a break but I would rather hear from her first than I'm starting to go through I can start talking and if people get up and go to the bathroom how many people can leave at a time how many people we have here right now I don't even know who's on the committee anymore there there are eight members of the committee so five of us need to be here okay so one person can go to the bathroom at the or out of the room at a time otherwise as long as you're just in the room you're good make sure you take the pass yeah otherwise get up get food get water I'll start talking okay so um I have JK up on the screen and then I the reason I have my
047screen up is so I can switch back to wesla to kind of show you guys some things here and there um okay so the first paragraph is talking about um delegating powers to the superintendent to uh recommend policies and develop procedures for the discipline of students that comply with this statute um I'm pulling that up right now for you all to see um so that statute is pupil disciplinary proceedings and as you might come to see there um are word for word pieces of this in the policy itself and so um this first part obviously the first sentence we're probably going to need to keep but the second part of it um you know that's up for editing and it might be something you edit later on depending on how you edit the rest of
048it is what I would recommend yeah yep and so like yeah whatever was added in there and the Orange is something cool that could be added in like I said you might want to come back to this part once you've gone through the rest of it to decide like what is the beginning introduction going to sound like okay so if we scroll down a little bit uh it says the discipline and suspension expulsion of pupil should not be based on race color sex blah blah blah blah blah blah blah if you go okay so this is um if you look at the screen I have up that's referring directly to um 15843 n right and so um I don't think there's a problem with Allen's suggestion um obviously the legislature is not always going to
049be up to date with things and especially ours so I think as long as we're more expansive remember we have to be more expansive or protective than the statute then we're fine so as long as that's the case we're good um so there's that part next part so unless as required by 15 841 G so I'll go to 15 I know I put it in there it's hard to see in a comment that feels silly to make you all look at that so I'll just go to it on here okay sure sorry if I didn't do a very thorough job here okay so 15841 is responsibilities of pupils expulsion blah blah blah blah blah alternative education alternative to suspension program so if you go to 15841 G it says a school district I'm going to
050highlight on here so you can see on the screen oh no of course it does that never mind I just have it scrolled up okay okay a school district or Charter School shall shall expel from school for a period of not less than one year a pupil who is determined to have brought a firearm to school within the jurisdiction of the school district or the charter school except that the school district or Charter School May modify the this expulsion requirement for a pupil on a caseby Case basis the subsection shall be construed consistently with the requirements of individuals with Disabilities Act and for the purposes of the section EXP may include removing a pupil from a regular school setting and providing Educational Services in an alternative setting and Firearm means firearm as the finded in
051the United States code so a couple things here all right so um I don't hold on let me see where if there's another place where it has required suspension I'm trying to remember if there's another place in here where it talks about okay so one thing that we're going to need to do here is like if you because you actually do have a little bit of wiggle room in that subsection and it's not talked about in this policy and so in that subsection right it says you shall expel someone for not less than one year but it also says that you can modify the expulsion requirement for a pupil on a case-by casee basis and so I think it's important that that potentially be in the policy for parents and families and kids to know
052and also teachers and administrators um because that's pretty important I mean it's a pretty big caveat um also the this this subsection or the definition of expel also including um Educational Services in an alternative setting that's something that's not clear I think we basically my recommendation would be to add like a like add a paragraph about required exposure ions and then you know kind of move this down and go down to the like um sorry discretionary expulsions so like this is only this right here is the only mention and so unless required by 1841 G bringing a firearm to school which may be modified on a case-by Case basis that's like the only mention I just feel like it's pretty scant when you're try like that that sentence covers this entire G1 and two right
053think this is what my wondering was where I was getting confused and I I can't speak well for the LW so I apologize yeah but this is talking about our kindergarten through fourth graders and there is like a separate thing about how we can behave with our how we can suspend and discipline our kindergarteners and fourth graders and these are only like a um a c d and e those are only those special things you have to do if they are a kindergartener through fourth grader or um under the in kindergarten fourth grade definitely so that's what's confusing to I feel like that's an even more of a reason to separate that first sentence out because it applies to everyone not just kindergarten through fourth grade so so is that is that correct right yeah
054so we don't necessarily have to follow any of these we don't have to have all of these correct so this that yeah so you are right the rest of it is applying to only kindergarten through fourth grade and all of the following have to apply in order to um have a discretionary expulsion so my recommendation would be to split that paragraph up and then I'll get to the issue of the fifth through e8th graders in a minute okay I think we can address that after this one but yeah I would I would suggest at least splitting that up and then expanding on the 841 G since it applies to everyone okay um so as we went here I you know so I know it applies to K through 4 it says that all of the
055following apply the pupil seven years of age or older so like I said we can always be more protective if you want this to apply to to someone five and older then we can do that right we just can't say eight and older so like if you want it to be uh four five or six instead of seven you can do that I think this is the other way around saying we can only if they're Le if they're seven or older excuse me could make it 10 sorry I'm tired yes you could put it 10 years old or something and I'm trying to think think of I mean in the sped realm obviously that's going to be a big deal and I'm trying to think of like if you've I don't know help me out
056if you skipped a grade or you've been held back what age are you in fourth grade oh yes you could be like nine okay so that's something there thank you Alan I was my brain is yeah I'm again I was in Washington DC this morning and here I am right now I am a little tired but that's okay so thank you Alan so yes more protective would be older in this situation um so that's up to you all second section here is uh also has to everything again all has to be met here but I just wanted to define a few things so um where did I put I wanted to see if I put the okay if you look on this comment here on the right you know I put put that United States
057code thing I don't think I defined it in here anywhere it's pretty easy to um Define and what we could do is we could just include that definition in our glossery later on it's easy to copy and paste that from the United States code what I wanted to differentiate here was um dangerous weapon so requires districts to expel students who bring firearms that the subsection we talked about before or um any other dangerous weapons or de deadly instruments would be up to the district that's up to you what goes there right and so again this is K through four students if they're in in possession of a dangerous weapon and according oh this is where I put the US code so this is the US code definition of a firearm it's any weapon including a
058starter gun which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive the frame or receiver of any such weapon any firearm muffler or firearm silencer any destructive device and such term does not include an antique firearm so that definition of firearm is much um more restrictive than the Arizona definition of deadly weapon okay because you can have many of those things and not be considered to be in possession of a deadly weapon you could have like by themselves um the Arizona law criminalizes possessing a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument if you're under the age of 18 Arizona's definition of a deadly weapon means anything designed for lethal use including a firearm but they don't necessarily say you got to Define firearm like the
059US code Arizona's definition of a dangerous instrument means anything that is under the circumstances in which it is used attempted to be used or threatened to be used is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury I know this is like getting into the weeds basically what I'm trying to get across here is you know this is really young kids and I know that we've discussed that there could be very scary situations with really young kids right um and I think this is where you're going to have to have that conversation about what does this look like depending on how young the kid is and depending on what they potentially are possessing at school right what I can tell you like as far as under the criminal law in Arizona as far as a
060firearm goes and what I'm saying is like as long as the police can test fire the weapon using a similar bullet they're going to consider it an operable firearm the only thing and then as long as if it's an old kind of BB gun that's not a firearm if it's a got a CO2 cartridge BB gun that is a fire a deadly weapon okay um anything else like if it's an inoperable gun it's not going to be considered a deadly weapon obviously and if if it's an old BB gun again if you have a knife yeah like I said if you look at the dangerous instrument definition or deadly weapon it could fall into those but then you're getting into the weeds of like what's designed for lethal use or could readily cause seriously body
061serious bodily injury or death and so that's not clearly something obviously like teachers and administrators are interested in getting into the middle of but it is something you're going to have to consider about like how gray this is if you're sending a kid off to uh the delinquency system at this age because they they can't be charged as as an adult at this age but you can certainly get caught up in the delinquency system and even at a very young age and so especially with serious offenses like this and so that is a conversation that should be had I don't have all the answers for you because it's up to you guys um next one is the drug section I try to give a few examples so dangerous drugs in Arizona are going to be
062like meth MDA PCP an iic steroids so not your steroids you're getting for your allergies or whatever um dangerous drugs I'm sorry sorry narcotic drugs AR fentanyl cocaine and heroin are the common ones Xanax Oxys hydros anything like that's like a painkiller without a script basically and then 3411 is marijuana so this statute is still listed so marijuana still listed under the statute under 1841 or 841 um however this section is permissible and not required so my opinion is that we should reconsider that even though obviously like a seven-year-old shouldn't be having marijana I think we should just reconsider like because that would be the same as you know there isn't a special section here for possessing alcohol at school and so I think we should just consider it like that in my opinion so
063you're taking it what I yeah I think I hear you saying us should consider taking that off meaning we wouldn't suspend for bring to schol um unless you have another section that also discusses alcohol because in my mind under the law it would be the same thing alcohol and marijuana because that's how they're viewed under the law as it is can can you repeat that are you are you saying are you confirming what she's saying that we shouldn't suspend because of marijuana I think that given what the laws are it's my opinion that you should be treating marijuana and alcohol equally because they are treated equally under the law they are regulated and they are for people who can possess it over the age of 21 yeah and that that also might sound salacious but
064if a six-year-old brings a eight pen school that's probably are you if a six-year-old brings there's no subsection in here about if a six-year-old brings a flask of whiskey to school oh yeah that's what I'm trying to say I think I agree with what you're saying that oh if a six-year-old or like brings like a shooter or their parents flash to school that's probably not the same thing as a 15-year-old yeah disagree and say that there's something not saying that alcohol is a suspendable yeah that's what I'm saying is like yeah I'm just saying like whatever you do here should probably be treat like whatever you treat marijuana as moving forward should be treated equally as alcohol and if one's missing and you want the other one then that's what that's what I'm trying to
065get across here it just feels weird that that's there and then there's no mention of alcohol and in my mind those are equal under the law in this situation no no kids are legally allowed to possess it but they're not illegal for everyone so here's my here's my I don't know do we want to keep going through Katie's things or do we want to talk about this right now I could finish these like few sub sections here there's not a ton I could go pretty quickly let's have you finish then we'll go this okay so obviously subsection three is pretty vague you guys can tell that that's vague that's up to you all um and I think I also look to see um I don't think that part is in the I think these are
066like um let me go back to 843 when when I remember looking I think those were like part of the asba edits and so oh no it's right there so it's here but then when I okay so whenever you're um looking at a statute it's hard to do this when you don't have access to something like this or a reporter is what we call them in the print form um but there's a thing called notes of decisions right here and so if you don't have like okay let me open this definitions okay there's two places you look for things in statute this says immediately dangers the health of some somebody right I'm going to the definitions thing for this statute no help there okay there's only two things that it's defining so I don't know
067what they mean here by immediately danger in danger the health or safety of others so then I have to go to notes of decision and when I got over here I don't recall finding anything about again immediately I think I searched for it there are no notes of decision about what that means so I think we're within our right to have like a subsection that clarifies what we mean by that I mean because there's been no decisions about what that means uh interestingly didn't notice this before here we go school district governing board has authority to impose reasonable disciplinary rules on students who use alcoholic beverages on school property on the way to and from school during extracurricular activities okay so a big duh there um otherwise like I said no definition no cases decided
068on that I think you guys could explain that probably a little better um when I looked through through this part I didn't see anything that was like something I needed to Define again excuse me if we go back to 8:43 this is coming straight from the statute but then again if you go to the notes of decision there's like nothing here that's going to help you with that okay another thing that we that I took note of is if you scroll down to the bottom here that's current through 2020 so like this was originally adopted back in 1981 it's obviously been edited many times I'm going to assume that this language hasn't changed very much so KY are you talking about number four I'm not sure where you're at yeah I'm talking about SE four
069and then the subsections under number four excuse me oh yeah I forgot to add page numbers let me do that real quick there we go done sorry okay so we're on uh we're on page two and then we're looking at subsection 4 and then all of those subsections so I obviously these things are these things are coming straight from the statute 15843 I think that there's room for for some movement there I wouldn't go too far a foul of it but I would say that if you want to expand or explain or clarify I think there's room for that um obviously Jessica or someone from our firm is going to be looking at whatever we adopt anyway and so it might be it's worth our your while to say what your thoughts are I think
070okay now we're at subsection C uh big letter C so there was a b and c okay failing to remove the pupil from the school buding would create a safety threat that cannot otherwise reasonbly be addressed or qualifies as aggravating circumstances no good question what does this mean um so again let me see here if you go if you look to the statute subsection three has this exact thing here now it gives you a definition of what aggravating circumstances is but it doesn't talk about what creating a safety threat that cannot otherwise be reasonably addressed means again I think we're in a position here to clarify or try to explain or Define in in some way that works for us but we just can't go too far foul because this obviously is a caveat that's
071in the that's in the statute it could be a good place for restorative practice language I think before suspending or expelling the pupil the school district or Charter School considers and if feasible while maintaining the health and safety of others in consultation with the pupil's parent or Guardian to the extent possible employees alternative Behavior disciplinary interventions that are available to school district charter school that are appropriate to the circumstances blah blah blah we all kind of know what this is about I agree Megan I think this is long um I think so we're going back here subsection four on the statute is exactly word for word that there's nothing that says we can't break this up or like um at least try to make it a little more I think you could make it a
072little more um consumable without as many words or make it a little less easier to read with the same meaning is what I'm trying to say it's a lot so whatever yall do there I think there's a way to say the same thing and not have it be so confusing um okay okay so I think I put this in here so again we're looking at statutory minimum here you can make it more expansive or more protective you could lower the minimum number of days or again this is for K through four um we and I guess we're referring this is where I was getting confused again because I had to keep going back to which subsection we were under because I kept getting confused if we were still under the K4 but we are correct
073that's why I was confused okay so no so you can't do grades but you could change like the number of days hold on let me change that okay alternative reassignment yeah great what are examples I mean I don't know what you all already have going on as far as alternative reassignments go so that would be an interesting conversation to have especially if that varies from campus to campus it very from campus to campus but often what it looks like is sticking a kid from one grade in the classroom of another grade and saying your stuff's on your iPad you look yeah I think that that's what the alternative reassessment in this paragraph is saying so when subject to Alternative reass reassign one sorry reassignment I think that that's actually talking more about like when we
074used to have Compass at our in our district yeah we would we would assign them to a new school or like let's say there was conversation of well if a kid gets um this didn't happen but there was conversation of like well when we during covid well if a kid gets suspended and we we have Craton virtual maybe they'll get they'll go to Craton virtual and that would be a change of assignment that didn't happen but like that's what that means that's not talking about like if they're like serving an ISS in a different room yeah I don't know if you guys know what B like bostrum high school is but like for example my brother yeah I mean he still like got sent to many of those so like it would be like want
075you he's been to Desert he's been to all of them but like he would get sent to those place he's lasted one semester at Camelback and then little journey through Phoenix Union at all these little schools so um I think that's that's how I read it as well I just didn't know if any what was going on I didn't think we had anything like that these days I didn't know if there was like something outside of the district that everybody used or no I think I've heard those referred to as alternative schools in our schools I've heard the phrase Alternative Learning program or Alternative Learning environment which is what I was referring to okay yeah and I think do do that Al we don't do this Al alternative placement yeah yeah so that might be
076something to like explain maybe we put a clar clarification in there that like if if it exists or if it is you know accessible that sort of thing all right moving on aggravating circumstances so this is the definition of aggravating circumstances it's exactly what's in the statute um that's where I commented um I think I think there's something to point out right like obviously none of this stuff is like easily defined and even in the statute if you try to figure out what does this mean as many times some of you have asked here there's no cases so nobody's gone as far as to Sue or be in a criminal proceeding or delinquency proceeding to where um a higher Court like an appeals court of appeals or Arizona Supreme Court has decided what some of
077these things mean more in a more detailed fashion and so we're just in the position of of interpretation right and so even those three subsections are up for interpretation right what conduct can constitutes preventing other students from learning or preventing a teacher from maintaining control of the classroom environment right um or what does it mean to be unresponsive and I think a lot of those things if we're looking at obviously through inequity lens are going to look different depending on how you're looking at these uh and depending on the student depending on the teacher depending on all kinds of things right so I just want us to keep that in mind um looks like J okay oh so I just said here this this felt like it could be flushed out somewh it could be
078added to it just feels kind of like okay make sure you have this um good question Megan not really anything for me to say here go ahead explanations start going working just because temporary removal and on down is now it's it's to everybody so I yeah okay yeah and then I can whenever you guys get to that because it's possible we don't get there today all right cool so let me put um a note in here where we stopped so I think the Dilemma is before we had very clear like at least I felt like you can justess with it like there was a lot more we could do on our own go paragraph by paragraph just ask the question if we want to change what people want to change and see yes I agree
079it's fine isn't that kind of what we were doing before I thought I ass yeah I just feel like we were originally putting like all our comments in and like being like yeah I agree with that I agree with that and I don't think some of the stuff we can change that yeah I I don't see a lot of hot pink basically yeah it's harder and because it's like do you even want to change it is the question yeah that's kind of so paragraph one uh is the pink highlighted text the stuff that she said is not actually in the in the statute so the first one is Allen's comment about the added text so the superintendent shall recommend policies all the way to 1583 she said kind just need to keep and then from
080these policies and procedures will apply all the I do not want to change anything I don't I didn't see any reason to change anything in that first paragraph yep and I looked at Allen's addition below and I think and I'm okay definitely with wording because I just threw it together but I just wanted to make sure that the guidance is that whatever the discipline policies are don't ignore the support side of the world because there's no policy for that there's nothing that's we're we're not there's nothing that we're working on that's telling the superintendent you need to have procedures related to that otherwise can I so one revision I'd like to say is with the understanding that student discipline can I say instead of saying does not always can I just say is is not
081guaranteed sure I'm fine with that this by the way that that thought is part was what my wording on Adriana's comment on the previous one was all about that's really what the research really says is that disciplinary actions don't change I'm just saying no I'm I'm clarifying I know you know what I meant I'm clarifying for and then the and then we can delete my comment because this is basically what I was trying to say but now it's covered by with with the understanding that student discipline is not guaranteed to have long-term impact on student behavior these policies and procedures um can we say are intended to instead of shall be developed to no because this is a direction to the superintendent right right the superintendent shall recommend policies and develop procedures and I'm saying
082those Pol well we're recommending policies but those those the developed procedures the superintendent needs to do ALS needs to I understand yeah yeah work t with positive behavior positive behavior behaviors or behavior behavior and support systems within the district yeah looks good to me I'm gonna go back and delete my comment because this covers that comment so we don't have to wonder why that's still there and you want to Poe to Allan's addition with grammar Corrections click in the check mark um anyone opposed to changing sex to gend sexual identity sexual orientation um I'll do the addition Katie I'm going to delete your comment about we'll upload to Google Drive too thank you sorry I got ambitious cool um Katie has a comment explaining the legal code which I'll just leave um May yep leaving
083Katie's comment for clarity so seven years of age or older Katie says I believe this age needs to be higher any opinions I disagree yeah I also disagree isn't there a law that's connected to that yeah so kind of what we were all saying there is a law like right now it's like if a kid basically if a kid is six you're not suspending him no matter what he does you're not suspending him because it does it he has to be at least seven and in practice are like are like seveny olds like um if we went any older we sorry we are struggling to like respond to certain kids behaviors that would in any other circumstance would warrant a suspension but because they're seven or they're almost seven or they're six we like don't
084do so if we went to like 10 there would be would it's things like um we had a 10-year-old on our camp is well he's he's a fourth grader but he's like about to be 10 he brought a fa and he was trying to get his friends to use it so if we put like those are the behaviors the kids are showing so if you go that high and it's like well we can't it's just like a yeah and I agree I think like even in if we are living in our Ideal World where we're fully staffed and we have all the people we need to do restorative projects and so on and so forth kid brings a VAP to school you got to suspend him for at least a day to talk to all
085of his friends and say hey if so and so comes back tomorrow with another Vape you're GNA say no and here's why right and most of our like to be honest most of the like close to seven or six the reasons that we're like we need to get them out of class is because they're like throwing things and running and we don't have time to make a safety plan so we're like we're chasing the kids as we're trying to talk about it so we're already struggling with it being a bar of seven you need time to develop safety plans you need time to contact parents to set of meetings I think that is often what those suspensions are used for take I don't I mean if it's not if it's not appropriate tell me but
086it is it because Katie put the comment and I know she's ex officio but I is it appropriate to ask what your thought process was and including that that opinion which one the one about the for suspension of K through 4 I don't know so here's the thing I've obviously I've never worked in an elementary school um so all my experiences in high schools I also don't know what studies or data shows right now about the collateral consequences and long-term impacts of suspending students that young and I feel like I would want to know those things before I made a decision that you guys are Mak well I think I me my understanding is that suspensions are pretty much universally bad for kids like when you suspend a kid they're out of school it's bad
087for them right um however just in terms of research it's pretty much impossible to measure the impact on other kids of suspending one kid right it's just like just in terms of research it wouldn't be possible to isolate that variable um it's a practical consideration not because theoretically if we had infinite staff you could whisk this kid away to a different environment you know um provide them with the support they need whatever but we don't have staff to be one-on-one with every single kid that does something suspension Worthy right I I agree with that because I I kind of like reiter a little bit what adri was talking about sometimes you you need time to go because of the lack of resources you need time to be able to come up with a plan I
088would be comfortable if if you wanted to have the conversation to talk about parameters around that but I feel like there's a lot of parameters in there I would be very hesitant to close the door on a topic excuse me on a on an option like that um for um as just like that's just not available like that would be that would make me a little nervous yep because I mean as it stands we got kids that are seven eight years old and it's like today they beat someone up tomorrow they're going to come back and beat someone up if nothing changes and we got to figure out a plan and it's not going to happen in 24 hours seems like that is a real practical consideration that happens in our schools every day it
089does it's happened this year yep yeah I think I think it's just really um obviously we know that suspensions have negative future consequences right and I I would assume just from the work that I do I mean just from like being in this sphere like that the younger you are you're going to get impacted exponentially especially if you get suspended at a young age the chances of you getting suspended again I'm guessing are pretty high okay like let's just be honest here right and if you're getting suspended repeatedly and or and or leading to an explosion but if you're just getting suspended repeatedly we know we're going down the road which the studies that I know I just don't know of specific studies with young kids but the studies that I know that obviously there's
090a correlation and and between suspensions and involvement future involvement in the legal system right but but that research only accounts for suspensions and not suspensions in in um intended thank I'll use my yes thank you for bring giving me my own word back but intended with those positive support processes yes which is why I my what I'm so grateful everybody was good with that paragraph that I added because I feel like that's that's that's the piece that allows the potential long-term negative impact of suspensions correct to to not be there because we're going taking time to do something proactive to hopefully actually lessen the Poss the potential of that recidivism it's when suspensions are where there's a high level of recidivism and there's nothing else happening and it's just we're assuming that we're we're punishing
091by getting by telling the kid you're not walking to be in school incapacitating them yeah no I think definitely I feel like your paragraph is helpful when I first looked at this I just wasn't sure what and to me it was that issue like well we just have them keep going home then nothing's going to change and we're just going to keep contributing to this it reminds me of the attendance argument know a kid comes late all the time and what do you do you punish the kid by suspending the kid and you're essentially you're you're not doing anything it's not the kids's fault that they're they're not coming to school and the the analogy here is and and I'm I'm going to make an assumption that if a six-year-old or a seven-year-old comes to
092uh has some real extreme behaviors or give you an example our kid that comes to threaten the school and uh has knows exactly where a weapon is that is on his father's um desk which is open and out there clearly the environment is not conducive towards a a healthy place for a child um and you're essentially by suspending them sending them back into that environment to rein force a lot of the beh and if anything Empower uh behaviors because of I'm just going to say it because of poor parenting um I don't I don't know the answer to that question um but I would say in a situation like that like that the Positive Behavior Support piece that that that's happening should be happening while this child's suspended because I I do think if they've
093made that clear threat and we really think there's the potential that he's going to show with a gun and do something we need to conduct a threat assessment we do have from our district for that to determine whether or not that threat really is what we think it is and then we can a safety plan like we need but we need time to do that while the school is safe right yes and um that's oftentimes like exactly what we're doing during Aion is the kid might come back to the room so we could do come back to like my office so we could do the threat assessment and I think in regards to what you were saying there's so many like for the K4 kids all of the other things like to be required yeah
094they are so like all-encompassing and and and they really are safeguards for kids yeah that um I don't think that we would I don't think that the concern of like that age is what's like gotcha so you have to a lot of things to check all these boxes yeah gotcha I mean we've had kids who literally they match every single one but they happened to still be six so we didn't suspend gotcha I I thought the age I thought the age was six I didn't know it was seven they I think they changed it recently it just changed it yeah didn't it change to six yeah oh no like they upped it to seven oh yeah oh okay I think they changed the grades I think they changed the grades recently for suspensions oh that
095that's true but yeah the age thing I think also they had somebody had introduced a bill trying to make it to where uh like a 5-year-old could potentially be suspended but that didn't that wasn't successful um sounds like we're not changing the age some resolving the com yeah so um the only other thing that I was curious about when I was hearing what you were saying Alan when it comes to safety plans or when it comes to like these kinds of interventions that happened during or before return to school um how much of that is like especially in these situations where you know I mean we there I think sometimes there there's bad parenting but I think a bad parenting is always is a result or La of a lack of skills and resources and
096so how much of our um safety plans and and return to school plans involve like parent education or dis or like engagement like let's say there isn't safe like weapon storage in the home is there a conversation being had like what does that look like I I would imagine that's not cons if it is it's not it's not that's it would be the exception not the norm in terms of that um but I also question the extent to which we intentionally teach the kids skills much less the parents skills too so I think that they're both important and maybe we maybe we need to build in some examples into my paragraph to help give some definition of some of those things which which will be fine yeah that's yeah go ahead Sim asking there have
097been times where we have asked can we require the parent to enroll the student in counseling seeing these things and oh yeah no you can't do that we can't for it upon yeah but offering it would be you can always offer it yeah and I think the same like offering some sort of parent resources or education materials or we we do we can offer it but yeah it's never been a part of like the plan like in order for this to happen you got to do that certainly well and I will say rarely in these circumstances as a parent come forward and say I just wish I knew how to secure my firearms have any resources it's usually someone who's unaware that they lack a skill and if you suggested to them may even be
098offended that you are implying a deficiency in their parenting right totally um I have a continuity question I think could I just add in to that just before we leave that thought is like having been somebody who did wraparound Services I think that's where your personal relationships come in and when you do home visits you're like in a position where you can have a conversation like hey like now we're in this position where like you potentially either like because this could also result in like a mandatory report right or you know so we're in a position where you are potentially going to get in trouble and I want to make sure you are not getting in trouble either moving forward um and so I I obviously this is like a bigger picture thing in terms
099of you know my gears are turning now about like District family engagement and education and that sort of thing but just that's at a macro level and then this is like at a micro level too and so I'm asking these questions and thinking about these things just to let you know like we my Minds at I know that that's not something we can solve in these paragraphs I just don't always know what it what is going on right now real great if we had social workers yeah it would be awesome um my continuity question is and I don't know if this is necessary but do we need to be mindful of the the language surrounding K4 I don't know I mean I correct me if I'm wrong but if you can't suspend a kid before
100seven years should we even include anything that is Kinder um well this the Pol or the excuse me the statute I believe has it in there know too many seveny old kindergart no but if if a kindergartener is retained one year they probably seven in kindergarten yeah and then if you look here at 15843 subsection K it specifically says kindergarten program first 2 third or fourth grade only a follow the following apply okay so if they're in those grades and they're seven years old got it okay thank you yeah moving along do we need to take charter school off where's that at right there in that paragraph oh Reed School District or Charter I think it'ses it's part of the statute and in our policy we don't really we're not in we're not we don't
101have oversight over the charter schools in our district so we don't need that in our policy it's just in the statute so yeah we could take out or charter school so it's not confusing wouldn't ever be an instance where we would have a charter school I don't no there wouldn't and yeah and the way that our state works so other states they like have over your District might have oversight over a charter school but that's not how it works in Madison has their high school whated there was a conversation years ago about having a charter high school that was kind of similar to the conversation that Madison um it was going to be located at excellencia uh but it never got off the ground okay and then just it's 6:30 so I just want to
102make sure we're respecting everyone's time is there anyone that has to leave at 6:30 today okay uh so the next one is uh Katie's comment about the following is a list of types of conduct the district can expel or out of school suspend but not required to is there anything thing we need to edit that goes along with that I'm at the bottom of page one hey I'm sorry um for pro potentially throwing a wrench into things I'm gonna delete that because Katie this is more your wheelhouse sorry I'm deleting that sorry go there is there was a bill that was passed signed by the governor in June of last year yep that made it that this stuff only applies if the suspension is over two days now where what Bill are you looking at
103I'm looking at House Bill 24 2460 which is all of the same stuff but says you know expulsion of a pupil K through four do not apply meaning all these criteria if the suspension does not exceed two days and the aggregate suspensions for the people do not exceed 10 days within a school year and you said that was from the 20 2023 session that is from June 2023 that it was signed by the governor on June 19 chaptered version because this what we are looking at looks like the previous version and they amended it to be that this stuff only applies for a suspension of over two days or an aggregate suspension of over days okay so gotcha accept is provided in subsection L okay here we go subsection K of this section does not
104apply if that and then two or 3 days so that's L1 and two so did we never get an updated policy for that looks like that is correct because I was aware of when that passed interesting I this is my own comment of something I found out over the weekend which I'll bring up but it sounds like there aren't actual Attorneys at this time reviewing policies at a SBA it's just people that work there so I'm concerned um so anyway that's a comment for later but um okay thank you for finding that let's see here so what I would say for our policy is that let's see okay so the district or Charter School is suspending the pupil for two or fewer days and the aggregate suspensions for the pup do not exceed 10 days
105within the school year let me add some language here and just to be clear subsection K of the statute is subsection four hold on is this part right here this is basically y hold on you're okay you're taking care of it yeah I thought there was a change and that's why I was confused too I knew I had heard of something but then I thought well maybe it didn't pass I'm trying to think way this here I'll open up the document again if you want to see it it says right here oh let me zoom out just a little bit there it's on the big screen the language if you want to look up at the statute language the new statute language yeah um I'm trying to think of just a way to word this
106unless a school May May out of school suspend 12 people who's enrolled in K through 4 this the for thee ceing doesn't apply or something like that since we don't have a [Music] subsection yeah okay do you mind adding that in Daniel hold up hey John could you because I don't I'm this language is confusing me I'm sorry it's been a long day thank you for finding that so people actually know mean yeah yeah we could put total you know went with 10 days it's in alignment with the special education protections oh that's smart well let's see who the sponsor was there you're good that was from pelli Bev pelli and Jennifer Pollock last session interesting Bev pellis and Poria I believe Jennifer poock and Chandler yeah because when that passed I saw the article
107I posted it and somewhere and I remember doing it and I was like oh maybe some of these kids will get suspended and didn't happen I see why well okay let me start there let me put this so a people who's in in fourth grade may only be suspended for more than two consecutive days is the following condition apply and then can we put in parentheses somewhere about the 10 days yeah 10 total days in the school year so are we this will this read as though like you can go over this if you want as long as you yes which is right that right that's what the the yeah the new law was intended to be yes if you're going past the just like in special Edge you're going past the 10th day there
108are certain things you need there are certain requirements you need to meet before you can actually suspend is also true for 504 um but and it's like if you're GNA want to try to suspend a kindergarten through four through fourth grader past the 10th day you still then need to meet or for more than two consecutive days you need to meet these criteria I'm use that Danel to I feel like we should especially for people who I see yes let them know a Kinder kindergarten through fourth grader can be suspended for up to two days yep yep you're going you are you correct um if people who don't so be in Orange for up to two days we decided orange instead of purple for this one for some reason oh I started typing orange so
109I wouldn't remember where mine was and my bad up to two days all the colors are confusing [Laughter] me all Maximum 10 12 days that's good does that make sense up to two consecutive days so I'm going to do a little bit we have this a school district and District across I'm going to change it to the school district because that's actually the entity that suspends yes the principales just do it on behalf of unless required by whatever bring blah blah blah the school district May out of school suspender expel people who enrolled in kindergarten fourth grade for fourth grade for up to two consecutive days or 10 total days in the school year people who's enrolled may only be suspended for more than two consecutive days or more than 10 total days in the
110school year if the following conditions apply Yep looks good to me I think you're right it's weird that we have that like ini the unless it's like oh real quick here but don't worry about that well and but that's because right the firearm piece is an actually the exception to the to the to the limits then yes and then my other wondering and we just as a comment and come back later since we're saying like you can do this for a K4 kid should we acknowledge that there are five eight kids in our district and put something about like you cannot suspend five fifth through eighth graders right doesn't it seem it does it seems very awkward that the policy is all focused on four through K4 and doesn't actually allow correct so that is
111I think and that's the one thing I was going to get to eventually but I didn't get to because if we stopped in the I was going to say obviously there's room here to add an entire section about what this entire procedure looks like for you know fifth through eighth graders we could just we could literally just put a line that says the school district May suspend or expel whatever students in fit through eighth grade that's like the bare minimum we should probably do in terms of dual diligence I we would do more than that but yeah AG okay so1 can we what are our thoughts of just putting dangerous instrument because as you spoke I felt like that probably obviously it doesn't if it's a firearm then it's already covered right so like the
112thing about the dangerous instrument is just like you know here I think that would be more expansive if you put dangerous instrument because that says it's just weird because the definition is either deadly weapon or dangerous instrument and they were a dangerous weapon so I don't really know what their intent was there if you put deadly instrument that's going to be like that's going to make it super broad well think so dangerous instrument anything under the circumstance which it is used attempt to be used or threaten to be used causing death or serious physical industry in injury that means if a kid has a pencil that is not a dangerous instrument but if a kid lunges for another kid's eye with a pencil it is now a d it's like how they are using it
113or intend to use it sounds appropriate for to me for this policy okay I think that would actually even be better than you missed our conversation about me um stabbing Megan in the neck with a pencil at a previous [Laughter] meeting and we wanted to add something about alcohol here oh yeah um you know what would be good language maybe is that thing that case that I found here hold on or that it was an attorney general opinion right here there you go yeah hold on where is it alcohol use um this right here I don't know do you want me to just copy and paste it in there and then you guys can Wordsmith it where should I drop it okay yeah I'll just put a there and then I will oops okay I'm
114just typing oh my goodness what am I doing I'm sorry yeah okay a oh that's a comma all right sorry there you go you all can deal with that all right I'm working on the the other the other part but I want you guys to look at that c that they are unless required paragraph um I actually rewrote the an intro to that to read for students in grades K through four unless required by AAR now the unless I think makes sense it's contextualized it's still an awkwardly long sentence you know um what we could do is just put you could just put involves The Possession use or sale of and then you could put alcoholic uh substances or substances containing alcohol and then we could delete the 2A because that other stuff seems like
115something you would put like at the beginning or the end of the policy you know what I mean yep I agree with that okay and we'll do we'll do an or this is a really weird sentence it has like five ores in it why a sixth one no big deal not you agre with it I had process can you put that back so that I can okay so like I just thought this was really wordy and I thought if we just put in substances containing alcohol up at the top and then if we want this wording somewhere we could like put it in another section because it feels like a weird place to have it because sorry sorry I know we were talking about multiple things how are you guys cutting okay I'm ready I
116think to go over what I've added in as soon as you guys are ready to move there this is a five minute warning so we can allow for time to clean up all right so um I think I think Nicole's still working on B2 okay B2 I thought it was 2A I'm not 2A includes B too okay oh right right B22 a got it there's too many letters and numbers p2a that's funny what is it um we're talking about removing the part that I just highlighted oh removing 2A yeah and just I just dropped it there for y'all to see the language it's an opinion from the attorney general it's something that could be put somewhere else in the policy because they added substances containing alcohol to the list of the things on number two
117yeah so what is it now so how it's changed is basically we're going to keep all the drugs they listed including marijuana but then we're going to Ure just because marijuana is like marijuana and like alcohol for adults right they still are going to be addressed in terms of our kids dis we don't want a kindergarten coming up with a marijuana joint right soaked and alcohol but we're not going to alol yeah maybe you change alcoholic substance alcoholic substances or alcohol like why not yeah is there is there a reason to say substances containing alcohol because I mean that would hold on let me look at that guess bring cockail so they use alcoholic beverages so the attorney generally used alcoholic beverages that is an opinion from 1989 But I me I I just didn't
118say beverages because I don't know alcoholic substance is there some other way to consume alcohol people these days that I'm not aware [Laughter] of that's true that's what I was trying to think of you could put it in other things I guess maybe in prison there is okay all right are there alcohol gummies I don't know rrolling up to Allen's language do a Tik Tok search there'll be other ways Hilda brought up um chocolates with alcohol in them there we [Laughter] go so so what I added which would now be a new paragraph four um on page oneing the the policies and procedures may allow for the suspension expulsion of any students as long as the measures as long as such measures are administered in a manner that is logical equital proportional and Progressive I
119see how I connected toward the other policy did I like that we got continuity and then then going into the next one then for students in grades K4 here we go those are that's now we start putting those parameters on the K4 just uh thinking ahead do uh so in case somebody wants to go ahead Beyond this policy uh do we want to like make a suggestion about what's going to be the next one to work on I want to be ambitious we still have let's get this done first well we're closing down are we yeah we're closing down but we still have quite a bit of this thing to go through um the temporary removal the confinment is everyone everyone table the rest of this policy yes is everyone cool with Allen's addition before
120we okay we're all go with that so maybe also you got y'all could review the rest of this policy before the next meeting then I think the rest of this will go pretty fast it'll go pretty quick so I mean given what James is saying I I guess we could have something on Deck what was the next thing we were going to look atess because were supp to get inform how people about the dress code opportunities to send us comments about the yeah so we had did we say that that was at the next meeting I just didn't remember what date meeting we had let's do dress code after this what's that what policy is that dress code jca is it j i c a a d r a okay - R A and then
121I did ask um did ask for Emily to include in the leadership links which is kind of like the email as um to the principal Vin principal people um that we were wanting to get information for people and that they should let their like and that was in last week's leadership website haven't seen today's yet yeah oh I um but yeah so that that did show up in there and excuse me comments to interest anything else for the good of the order before we move on to the final oh we we still have meeting schedule on there my bad many I think we just decided we would just check to confirm the next once we had made all those it was just okay everyone is still good for two weeks from now yeah yep okay
122so can I get a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second I second all those in favor say I meeting adjourned thanks everybody next meeting is the